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[TV static drones]

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[bright tone]

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- 21 minutes after the hour
of 8:00.

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This is the Sunday night

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Hall of Fame Special Edition
tonight,

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as we play some of the
greatest hits of Christmas.

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- ♪ Dreaming
of a white Christmas ♪

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- I've got a whole thing
here with our Christmas cards.

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My mother took great pride
in our Christmas cards.

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At Christmas, you got
to have heart, you know?

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Every year there'd be a photo,

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and then there
would also be a newsletter.

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This is 1974.

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My mother writes,
"John, age 12, 7th grade.

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"This fall he has thrown
several boy-girl parties

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"in our game room, which
have been quite successful.

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He's very careful how he
combs his hair and dresses."

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[laughs]
Yep, that was me.

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But this was Christmas 1987.

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And that's the last time
I went home for Christmas.

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My mother writes,
"John lives in Manhattan

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"but seems to spend most
of his time in Europe.

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"We see him in pictures,
but we're saddened

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to report he has broken off
all family contacts."

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The next year--
"Still no word from John,

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"except what we see
in the magazines,

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but we keep loving
and praying for him."

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And this one--it was a card
that I had never seen,

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because at that point,

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I had broken off contact
with my family.

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You know, they got returned.

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And this one--it says,
"Because I'm your mother."

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"You're going
to be 28 years old.

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"We have hardly seen you
for years.

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"We may not have been
the perfect parents,

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"but at least you know
we loved you.

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And we don't want to die
without ever seeing you again."

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[sniffles]

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[groans]

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[sighs, sniffles]

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[somber music]

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♪ ♪

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- In 1990,

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when the "Vanity Fair" article
came out,

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we found
this exit counselor to...

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help set up an intervention.

47
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- My older brother,
Rory, had contacted me

48
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and said, hey, let's have
a boys' weekend

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up in Newport, Rhode Island.

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It was definitely
not something

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I would have normally done,

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but, you know, Rory--he had
always kind of been

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in my corner,
so I trusted him.

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[dramatic music]

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- The exit counselors
had explained

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that people attempt
the intervention,

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and it drives the person away.

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You got one shot
to make it work.

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- Spent the first day
sailing--

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all these sort of things
we would do on Nantucket.

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But the next day,
we're at breakfast,

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we're having a good old time,

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and all of a sudden,
these three guys...

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come in.

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I just remember feeling like,

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okay, what the fuck's
going on?

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- We said to John,
hey, we're concerned about you,

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and these counselors
are here to help you.

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- All of a sudden,
my peripheral vision left,

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and everything
just got very, very small.

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I just felt
like a trapped animal.

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But we went back
to the hotel room and talked,

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I think, for, like, 12 hours.

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- And we thought we
made pretty good progress.

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So everyone went to bed,
and we were gonna continue

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the discussion
the next morning.

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Then we got woken up
at, like, 4:00.

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John's gone.

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We took off to the airport,
and sure enough,

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over in the corner,
hidden, John was there,

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waiting for this flight.

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So now we go into it,
you know, with a full press.

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This is your life.
This is your family.

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You need to leave
that other group alone.

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And then they call
for the plane.

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You know, again, we tell him,
hey, don't go, don't go.

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- But the sense of betrayal
was so intense,

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I just turned and left.

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♪ ♪

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And they looked at each other,
and they said, you know...

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I don't think we're
ever gonna see him again.

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That's not the way you hope
an intervention goes.

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♪ ♪

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- WBAB
with Frederick Von Mierers,

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and let us break now briefly,
give Frederick's voice a rest.

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- It's a little bit low

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because I've had
too much work to do.

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- Ah, don't say a word.
You've got to rest your voice.

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- I've been talking to you.
- I know.

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- No one ever knew
the full story,

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but Frederick had gotten weak,
and he started to lose weight.

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- We were thinking, he's just
got this inner-ear infection,

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this weakness
that was in there returning.

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He had the night sweats.

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He's not doing well,
losing weight.

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I'm thinking
something's wrong.

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I knew Frederick had
many partners.

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That was his prerogative.

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But I said, I think
we should get HIV tests.

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♪ ♪

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I tested negative...

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but he wouldn't acknowledge

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that he tested positive.

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I was absolutely terrified.

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But do I really need
to tell the world?

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No. No, I wouldn't.
I didn't.

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We kept
the whole thing secret.

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But Frederick
was still wanting to have

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casual sexual encounters.

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- Wait, did you believe
he was having sex with people

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while he was HIV-positive?

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- I think so, but I wasn't
really seeing it directly.

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And at the same time,
I'm thinking, this is insane.

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I was afraid,

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but I decided
it was absolutely necessary

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to confront him.

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So I said to him, Frederick,
I'll stay with you

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all the way through this.

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But, you know,
you got to let me know,

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are you really
thinking clearly?

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But that
really pissed him off.

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And then he cracked me
over the head with a plate.

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[plate shatters]

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He's hitting me in the face,
and I'm getting a bloody nose.

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And he's like,
you stupid fucking cunt,

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get the fuck out of here.

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I'm thinking, perhaps
he's tricking me.

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I promised I'd stay
with him to the end.

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- Paul Hinton.

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- I'm the one person who knows
Frederick's really not well.

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Shouldn't I help him?

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But there was a certain look
in his eyes.

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It wasn't human,
and it wasn't Frederick.

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♪ ♪

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- I'm surprised
Paul didn't break his skull.

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Paul went
to the local precinct,

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but he didn't want
to push the matter any more

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because he was afraid

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that it would go poorly
for him.

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- My fear
was that Frederick

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would then turn my decision
to leave against me.

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What if Frederick could blame
all of us for things?

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Hmm, after all,
I've done X, Y, and Z--

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running errands and cash

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and doing the gemstones
off the books,

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3/4 of a million in sales.

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You know, well,
let's spit it out--

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half a pound of psilocybin
mushrooms in the freezer

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and different things.

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So, if anybody does snitch
or you get into trouble,

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you're screwed.

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But when I left,
I thought to myself,

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I'll be quiet and silent.

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It was very difficult
for me to leave,

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because I second-guessed
myself for the rest of my life.

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♪ ♪

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Well, I ended up
joining the military.

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I joined the U.S. Army.

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25 years old, and I had to,
you know, regroup.

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♪ ♪

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- Around that time,

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Frederick's body started
deteriorating pretty quickly.

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His immune system couldn't
handle whatever was going on.

174
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- As Frederick started
to get sicker and sicker,

175
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I thought, oh, he just needs
to get down to North Carolina.

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He'll bounce back,
and everything will be fine.

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- I personally drove Frederick

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from our apartment
in New York City to Lake Lure.

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He was in bed 24-7,

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to the point
where we had to roll him over

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'cause he started
getting bed sores.

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- We didn't know
he was dying of AIDS.

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We thought it was
this staph infection.

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He didn't tell any of us.

185
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And, ultimately,

186
00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:04,377
as Frederick's health
continued to wane,

187
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the primary caretaker was a guy
who was in Eternal Values--

188
00:09:08,214 --> 00:09:10,300
this guy, David Seaman.

189
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- With us today,
we have Dr. David Seaman.

190
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- The idea behind chiropractic
is to balance

191
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the body's structural system.

192
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- When David got involved
with the group,

193
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he was a chiropractor.

194
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- Frederick was starting to
have certain physical issues,

195
00:09:25,398 --> 00:09:27,400
and David would use
his chiropractic

196
00:09:27,484 --> 00:09:28,818
and, you know, treat him.

197
00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,237
And then he kind of became
the in-house chiropractor,

198
00:09:31,321 --> 00:09:34,157
where we'd all get adjustments
here and there from him.

199
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,827
- But I never had a really
good feeling about him.

200
00:09:37,869 --> 00:09:40,330
Frederick would say,
in a past life,

201
00:09:40,371 --> 00:09:42,999
David Seaman chopped
Frederick's head off

202
00:09:43,083 --> 00:09:45,376
and that the reason
why David was here

203
00:09:45,460 --> 00:09:46,836
was to work out the karma.

204
00:09:46,878 --> 00:09:49,130
- Did you come here
from another planet as well

205
00:09:49,214 --> 00:09:50,799
or another solar system?

206
00:09:50,882 --> 00:09:52,175
- I did.
- You did.

207
00:09:52,258 --> 00:09:54,469
- But the point is,
that's not important.

208
00:09:54,552 --> 00:09:56,346
- As Frederick got sicker,

209
00:09:56,429 --> 00:09:58,348
there's now a power struggle.

210
00:09:58,431 --> 00:10:00,642
David was the one
trying to grab power,

211
00:10:00,725 --> 00:10:03,144
and there's another
guy named Fritz.

212
00:10:03,228 --> 00:10:06,356
Fritz was a senior executive

213
00:10:06,439 --> 00:10:11,111
for German television
in their New York office.

214
00:10:11,194 --> 00:10:13,863
He and Freddy
were the same age.

215
00:10:13,947 --> 00:10:16,616
And he was second in command.

216
00:10:16,699 --> 00:10:19,202
He'd hold court,
and he would act

217
00:10:19,285 --> 00:10:23,623
as the de facto vice president,
so to speak.

218
00:10:23,706 --> 00:10:26,000
And...

219
00:10:26,084 --> 00:10:28,044
yeah.

220
00:10:28,086 --> 00:10:30,547
♪ ♪

221
00:10:30,588 --> 00:10:32,966
- Time-out?
- Yeah, I need time.

222
00:10:33,049 --> 00:10:35,844
- Okay.
- Yeah, fuck.

223
00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:39,722
- I was in Reno, Nevada,

224
00:10:39,806 --> 00:10:43,226
doing a job for "GQ"
when I got the phone call.

225
00:10:43,268 --> 00:10:46,396
Frederick was
on his last legs,

226
00:10:46,437 --> 00:10:49,399
and I needed to come back
and basically see him

227
00:10:49,482 --> 00:10:51,776
and say my goodbye.

228
00:10:51,860 --> 00:10:54,445
I was in complete denial
about the fact

229
00:10:54,529 --> 00:10:56,614
that he was on death's door.

230
00:10:56,698 --> 00:10:58,783
♪ ♪

231
00:10:58,867 --> 00:11:01,077
- Fritz and David
started taking over

232
00:11:01,119 --> 00:11:03,204
and exerting their control.

233
00:11:03,246 --> 00:11:06,291
I mean, Frederick was a living
skeleton at that point.

234
00:11:06,374 --> 00:11:08,501
♪ ♪

235
00:11:08,585 --> 00:11:11,754
- It was not easy
to even look at Frederick.

236
00:11:11,796 --> 00:11:14,674
I was given
this little vial of--

237
00:11:14,757 --> 00:11:15,884
They said it was water--

238
00:11:15,967 --> 00:11:17,677
you know,
with a little dropper.

239
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,679
And they said, you know,
he's struggling.

240
00:11:19,762 --> 00:11:22,765
You know, just give him drops
when you think it's necessary.

241
00:11:22,849 --> 00:11:24,392
Keep him hydrated.

242
00:11:24,434 --> 00:11:26,936
But later, David Seaman
divulged to us

243
00:11:27,020 --> 00:11:29,439
that what
we were all giving him

244
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,108
was actually some form of
morphine or some sort of thing

245
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:34,360
to try to accelerate
his death.

246
00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:38,114
But none of us were told that
at the time.

247
00:11:38,198 --> 00:11:40,617
- It was, like, poison
in those bottles

248
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:44,120
and that we were
actually giving him poison...

249
00:11:44,162 --> 00:11:47,165
while we were supposedly
just wetting his lips.

250
00:11:49,042 --> 00:11:51,419
- And then we were sitting
in the kitchen.

251
00:11:51,502 --> 00:11:53,504
Fritz walks in

252
00:11:53,588 --> 00:11:57,926
with a very, very somber face
and just says, you know...

253
00:11:58,009 --> 00:11:59,677
Frederick's passed.

254
00:11:59,761 --> 00:12:01,763
I really just went numb.

255
00:12:01,846 --> 00:12:05,308
I didn't know what to think.
I couldn't believe it.

256
00:12:05,391 --> 00:12:08,144
In his own ephemeris,

257
00:12:08,186 --> 00:12:10,271
Frederick marked the dates

258
00:12:10,313 --> 00:12:15,151
between January 28th
and February 9th of 1990

259
00:12:15,193 --> 00:12:18,738
and wrote "end of life."

260
00:12:18,821 --> 00:12:20,573
And he died on February 4th,

261
00:12:20,657 --> 00:12:22,825
so it was right
in that window.

262
00:12:22,867 --> 00:12:24,953
I mean, make of it
what you will.

263
00:12:24,994 --> 00:12:27,080
♪ ♪

264
00:12:27,163 --> 00:12:30,959
- Realize that this Earth
is only a way station.

265
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,796
As you die, you slowly shift
into the next octave

266
00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:37,924
of vibration.

267
00:12:38,007 --> 00:12:39,634
The places to which you go--

268
00:12:39,717 --> 00:12:43,554
and this is very important--
are determined by your life.

269
00:12:43,638 --> 00:12:46,057
This is why many people,
before they die,

270
00:12:46,140 --> 00:12:49,560
see their entire life
flash before their eyes.

271
00:12:49,644 --> 00:12:55,566
♪ ♪

272
00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:57,986
- Do you remember
the last interaction you had

273
00:12:58,069 --> 00:13:00,822
with Frederick
when he was lucid?

274
00:13:00,863 --> 00:13:03,074
- [voice breaking]
I told him I loved him.

275
00:13:06,244 --> 00:13:09,372
That's the last
thing I remember.

276
00:13:09,455 --> 00:13:12,375
[somber music]

277
00:13:12,458 --> 00:13:19,507
♪ ♪

278
00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,803
- Do you remember
his reaction?

279
00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:25,305
- He smiled.

280
00:13:25,388 --> 00:13:27,640
He wasn't talking
at that point.

281
00:13:27,724 --> 00:13:31,561
♪ ♪

282
00:13:31,602 --> 00:13:35,023
- We found out later that
when Frederick passed away,

283
00:13:35,106 --> 00:13:37,025
David Seaman and
Fritz Diekmann

284
00:13:37,108 --> 00:13:38,401
were in the room,

285
00:13:38,484 --> 00:13:41,654
and David said Fritz put the
pillow over Frederick's head

286
00:13:41,738 --> 00:13:44,032
just to end his life.

287
00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:51,122
♪ ♪

288
00:13:52,457 --> 00:13:56,919
And when we confronted Fritz,
he admitted that.

289
00:13:56,961 --> 00:13:59,047
But there was discussion
amongst us

290
00:13:59,130 --> 00:14:01,966
that it was
kind of a mercy killing.

291
00:14:02,050 --> 00:14:04,719
Fritz--you could see,
it was not something

292
00:14:04,802 --> 00:14:06,095
that he wanted to do.

293
00:14:06,137 --> 00:14:08,264
It wasn't something
that was easy for him to do.

294
00:14:08,306 --> 00:14:10,767
And I actually felt
some compassion for him.

295
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,477
- Well, ladies and gentlemen,

296
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,688
that's a great deal to think
about--ascended masters,

297
00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:18,358
space people,
and resurrected beings.

298
00:14:18,441 --> 00:14:22,653
Good night with another
platform of the Eternal Values.

299
00:14:25,114 --> 00:14:27,241
- Within hours
of Frederick passing,

300
00:14:27,325 --> 00:14:29,702
Fritz would come over
to people

301
00:14:29,786 --> 00:14:31,871
who were huddled up
in twos or threes,

302
00:14:31,954 --> 00:14:35,875
and we were trying to laugh
and remember our good times

303
00:14:35,958 --> 00:14:37,085
with Frederick.

304
00:14:37,168 --> 00:14:39,629
He would say, don't do that.

305
00:14:39,712 --> 00:14:42,215
Frederick died.
We've got to move on.

306
00:14:42,298 --> 00:14:44,967
And he was just very abrupt
and cold about it all.

307
00:14:45,009 --> 00:14:46,844
Like, Frederick's out of here,

308
00:14:46,928 --> 00:14:49,097
and now that whole life
is over.

309
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:51,766
[dramatic music]

310
00:14:51,849 --> 00:14:54,435
♪ ♪

311
00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,815
Initially, David tried
to get Frederick cremated,

312
00:14:58,856 --> 00:15:01,317
but before that could happen,

313
00:15:01,359 --> 00:15:03,945
we had to get an autopsy done.

314
00:15:04,028 --> 00:15:05,655
And that's when, supposedly,

315
00:15:05,696 --> 00:15:10,493
it was diagnosed
that he had the AIDS virus.

316
00:15:10,535 --> 00:15:13,329
- Once it went public that he
had AIDS,

317
00:15:13,371 --> 00:15:15,915
the mercy killing
certainly wasn't something

318
00:15:15,998 --> 00:15:17,500
that we were gonna talk about.

319
00:15:17,583 --> 00:15:20,503
So it kind of became one of
these secrets within the group

320
00:15:20,586 --> 00:15:25,174
that we all knew but certainly
you wouldn't go public with.

321
00:15:25,216 --> 00:15:30,263
♪ ♪

322
00:15:30,346 --> 00:15:32,932
After that, we had to
completely reconfigure

323
00:15:33,015 --> 00:15:34,350
Eternal Values.

324
00:15:34,392 --> 00:15:37,687
And that was the point
when Fritz took over.

325
00:15:37,728 --> 00:15:41,774
But he didn't have any
of the savvy or personality

326
00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:42,984
that Freddy had.

327
00:15:43,067 --> 00:15:45,528
And within six months,
the rest of our group--

328
00:15:45,570 --> 00:15:47,530
we kind of started
to push back on him,

329
00:15:47,613 --> 00:15:49,907
and we had
this kind of a mutiny.

330
00:15:49,991 --> 00:15:51,909
♪ ♪

331
00:15:51,993 --> 00:15:54,203
- We went
back to New York City,

332
00:15:54,287 --> 00:15:56,164
and they locked him
in his apartment,

333
00:15:56,247 --> 00:15:57,915
and they wouldn't let
him leave.

334
00:15:57,999 --> 00:16:01,169
This was, like,
for two or three days.

335
00:16:01,210 --> 00:16:03,838
They told him
that he had to leave,

336
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,216
and they got him to sign over
his ownership

337
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,386
of the Eternal Values assets.

338
00:16:10,428 --> 00:16:12,763
And he left.

339
00:16:12,847 --> 00:16:15,183
- And through that fracture,
the group kind of split.

340
00:16:15,266 --> 00:16:16,934
Some people aligned
with Fritz,

341
00:16:17,018 --> 00:16:18,978
and some people aligned
with our side.

342
00:16:19,061 --> 00:16:20,980
I temporarily was
in a leadership position

343
00:16:21,063 --> 00:16:22,982
for about a month or two,

344
00:16:23,065 --> 00:16:25,401
where we were like,
okay, what do we do next?

345
00:16:25,443 --> 00:16:27,987
But to really maintain...

346
00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:30,156
a leadership position
at Eternal Values,

347
00:16:30,239 --> 00:16:32,575
you had to be willing to put
other people down,

348
00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:33,826
confront them.

349
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:38,414
And that is not, fortunately,
the way I'm wired.

350
00:16:38,456 --> 00:16:41,292
And so I was quickly demoted.

351
00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:45,004
- At this point,
what are you thinking about

352
00:16:45,087 --> 00:16:46,339
in terms of the group?

353
00:16:46,422 --> 00:16:48,591
- [scoffs] I'm thinking,
things are pretty fucked up.

354
00:16:48,674 --> 00:16:51,928
- Was it recognizable
from what it was before?

355
00:16:51,969 --> 00:16:53,930
- Not to me.

356
00:16:53,971 --> 00:16:55,973
♪ ♪

357
00:16:56,057 --> 00:16:57,808
There were
a couple individuals

358
00:16:57,892 --> 00:17:00,228
that I felt
that had no interest

359
00:17:00,311 --> 00:17:02,772
in any spiritual growth at all

360
00:17:02,813 --> 00:17:07,108
but were there only
for their self-gratification.

361
00:17:07,193 --> 00:17:10,112
Something inside of me,
you know, said, this is wrong.

362
00:17:10,195 --> 00:17:11,948
You have to get out.

363
00:17:12,031 --> 00:17:15,284
But when I told them
that I was leaving the group,

364
00:17:15,367 --> 00:17:17,244
they tied me to a chair

365
00:17:17,286 --> 00:17:21,249
and started grilling me
for a day and a half.

366
00:17:21,332 --> 00:17:23,626
Frederick wouldn't want you
to do this.

367
00:17:23,709 --> 00:17:26,045
You're not following
your path.

368
00:17:26,127 --> 00:17:28,297
- Were you awake
the whole time?

369
00:17:28,381 --> 00:17:31,801
- [voice breaking] I don't
remember ever going to sleep.

370
00:17:31,842 --> 00:17:34,053
But they thought
I might be leaving

371
00:17:34,136 --> 00:17:36,889
with Frederick's gems
and things like that.

372
00:17:36,973 --> 00:17:40,059
So, before I walked
out the door,

373
00:17:40,142 --> 00:17:41,894
they stripped me
down to my underwear

374
00:17:41,978 --> 00:17:43,980
and let me walk out
the door in my underwear

375
00:17:44,021 --> 00:17:45,481
with a bag of clothes.

376
00:17:45,523 --> 00:17:47,900
So that's how I left the group.

377
00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:54,991
♪ ♪

378
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,497
- At that time,
the district attorney's office

379
00:18:01,581 --> 00:18:04,041
was investigating
and pursuing this,

380
00:18:04,125 --> 00:18:05,626
to bring it to court.

381
00:18:05,710 --> 00:18:07,295
- Frederick was in the middle

382
00:18:07,378 --> 00:18:09,880
of a multimillion-dollar
gem ring.

383
00:18:09,964 --> 00:18:14,719
- But I was told that although
there was a money trail,

384
00:18:14,802 --> 00:18:17,305
because Frederick
had passed away,

385
00:18:17,388 --> 00:18:19,890
the case that they thought
they could bring to court

386
00:18:19,974 --> 00:18:23,311
was no longer sufficient,
and they dropped the case.

387
00:18:23,352 --> 00:18:25,688
♪ ♪

388
00:18:25,771 --> 00:18:28,316
But once Frederick died,
I really thought

389
00:18:28,399 --> 00:18:31,944
that the group
would lose its momentum.

390
00:18:32,028 --> 00:18:35,281
That would be the end of it.

391
00:18:35,364 --> 00:18:37,950
So it was very surprising to me

392
00:18:38,034 --> 00:18:40,786
that it continued
so much longer.

393
00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:46,250
♪ ♪

394
00:18:53,049 --> 00:18:56,052
[indistinct chatter]

395
00:18:59,263 --> 00:19:00,931
- After Frederick died,

396
00:19:01,015 --> 00:19:04,894
most of the crew
moved down to North Carolina.

397
00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:07,104
You know, Freddy's gone.
Fritz is gone.

398
00:19:07,188 --> 00:19:09,899
No one's got the space people
on speed dial,

399
00:19:09,982 --> 00:19:12,360
so we've got to figure out how
to survive

400
00:19:12,401 --> 00:19:15,613
the coming apocalypse,
and how are we gonna do that?

401
00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:17,740
This is written
on this stationery,

402
00:19:17,823 --> 00:19:21,077
where I was in London.

403
00:19:21,118 --> 00:19:24,080
"Frederick told us repeatedly
that we have an opportunity

404
00:19:24,121 --> 00:19:25,998
"to do something
in our lifetime

405
00:19:26,082 --> 00:19:27,583
"that hasn't been done before.

406
00:19:27,625 --> 00:19:30,836
"Exactly what that is,
none of us is sure,

407
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,589
"but we know that it is meant
to be achieved by us

408
00:19:33,631 --> 00:19:36,008
"by staying together,
working together,

409
00:19:36,092 --> 00:19:37,677
"and caring for each other.

410
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,762
"The only real means
of survival in the future

411
00:19:39,845 --> 00:19:41,597
"will be through
communal living,

412
00:19:41,639 --> 00:19:45,601
"and we all know how critical
Freddy said that this would be.

413
00:19:45,643 --> 00:19:48,020
"Therefore,
we are free individuals

414
00:19:48,104 --> 00:19:52,692
joined together in a common
cause--self-realization."

415
00:19:52,775 --> 00:19:55,194
The North Carolina
lifestyle was,

416
00:19:55,277 --> 00:19:57,405
everyone lived
at the lake house.

417
00:19:57,488 --> 00:19:59,490
There were, like,
six bedrooms.

418
00:19:59,573 --> 00:20:02,618
But each room
had two twin beds.

419
00:20:02,702 --> 00:20:04,620
You had zero privacy,

420
00:20:04,662 --> 00:20:08,416
but we'd been doing such
communal lifestyle for so long,

421
00:20:08,499 --> 00:20:10,960
it wasn't something
that felt weird anymore.

422
00:20:11,001 --> 00:20:13,921
That was just the way we lived.

423
00:20:14,004 --> 00:20:17,925
- In North Carolina,
it was much more grounded

424
00:20:18,008 --> 00:20:20,803
in the day-to-day life.

425
00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:24,515
But when Frederick was alive,
for all the insanity,

426
00:20:24,598 --> 00:20:26,809
there was always
an undercurrent

427
00:20:26,851 --> 00:20:28,811
of a spiritual purpose.

428
00:20:28,853 --> 00:20:30,730
- Love everything
unconditionally,

429
00:20:30,813 --> 00:20:33,649
and you become part of God's
higher cocktail party on Earth.

430
00:20:33,733 --> 00:20:36,235
- Frederick always had
that kind of ethereal,

431
00:20:36,318 --> 00:20:38,070
tonal music playing.

432
00:20:38,154 --> 00:20:41,073
You were transported
out of New York City...

433
00:20:41,157 --> 00:20:45,077
[exhales sharply]
Into this oasis.

434
00:20:45,161 --> 00:20:48,831
But I remember
one morning in North Carolina,

435
00:20:48,914 --> 00:20:51,417
David got a boombox

436
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:55,463
and a copy of the song
"Mandolin Rain."

437
00:20:55,546 --> 00:20:58,174
- ♪ The song came
and went... ♪

438
00:20:58,215 --> 00:21:01,135
- And he played that
fucking song, I swear to you,

439
00:21:01,218 --> 00:21:04,638
for a week on repeat.

440
00:21:04,722 --> 00:21:08,851
And it was like, can you please
turn that fucking song off?

441
00:21:08,893 --> 00:21:10,019
And then it would start--

442
00:21:10,060 --> 00:21:13,230
♪ Listen to the mandolin rain ♪

443
00:21:13,314 --> 00:21:16,150
- ♪ Listen to the music
on the lake ♪

444
00:21:16,233 --> 00:21:18,819
♪ Oh, listen
to my heartbreak ♪

445
00:21:18,903 --> 00:21:20,404
♪ Every time... ♪

446
00:21:20,488 --> 00:21:22,698
- It was
a different vibe.

447
00:21:22,740 --> 00:21:25,743
The core group had gotten down
to ten people.

448
00:21:25,826 --> 00:21:28,037
There were no women around.

449
00:21:28,078 --> 00:21:30,956
And so we're aware
that we're different,

450
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,877
that we hold
some very strange beliefs.

451
00:21:34,919 --> 00:21:37,546
- Dr. David Seaman.
The life of a chiropractor--

452
00:21:37,588 --> 00:21:40,883
- We decided to not promote
ourselves as Eternal Values,

453
00:21:40,966 --> 00:21:42,718
'cause that name
had been quite soiled.

454
00:21:42,802 --> 00:21:47,389
And that kind of started
a whole new era for us.

455
00:21:47,431 --> 00:21:48,891
- And they were gonna start

456
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:51,143
some kind
of construction company

457
00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:55,439
to give a look of normalcy.

458
00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:01,403
- At that time,
I knew they had this office

459
00:22:01,445 --> 00:22:03,614
called the Lotus Group.

460
00:22:03,697 --> 00:22:06,867
They were very professional,
very polite.

461
00:22:06,909 --> 00:22:09,912
And I'm like, well, people
are saying y'all are aliens.

462
00:22:09,995 --> 00:22:12,540
You know, I mean, come on.

463
00:22:12,623 --> 00:22:16,919
There was certainly
nothing scary or dangerous...

464
00:22:17,002 --> 00:22:18,546
to me.

465
00:22:21,674 --> 00:22:25,219
- The locals
called us bead-wearing,

466
00:22:25,302 --> 00:22:28,055
homosexual stargazers.

467
00:22:28,138 --> 00:22:31,392
So it was decided
that it would be a good idea

468
00:22:31,475 --> 00:22:34,937
for some of the guys
to have girlfriends.

469
00:22:34,979 --> 00:22:38,065
And one of the guys
was with Meg.

470
00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:40,901
- It was just
this instant chemistry.

471
00:22:40,985 --> 00:22:43,779
I mean, it was just boom.

472
00:22:43,863 --> 00:22:46,949
I was so madly in love.

473
00:22:46,991 --> 00:22:50,035
You could have told me
anything about them,

474
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,954
and I wouldn't have believed
it, you know.

475
00:22:52,037 --> 00:22:53,747
I just wouldn't
have believed it.

476
00:22:53,831 --> 00:22:56,041
♪ ♪

477
00:22:56,125 --> 00:22:58,794
- I was in North Carolina.

478
00:22:58,878 --> 00:23:00,796
It was almost
through happenstance

479
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,174
that I ended up here,
ended up getting a job here.

480
00:23:04,258 --> 00:23:07,177
And after about a year or so,

481
00:23:07,261 --> 00:23:10,180
I started to see
these familiar faces.

482
00:23:10,264 --> 00:23:14,643
But I was consciously healing
myself from this experience

483
00:23:14,727 --> 00:23:19,523
and was quite content not
knowing anything about them.

484
00:23:19,607 --> 00:23:22,693
And then I found out a woman
in the arts community

485
00:23:22,776 --> 00:23:26,322
got involved
with the Lotus Group.

486
00:23:26,363 --> 00:23:29,450
- Elissa came
in my office one day,

487
00:23:29,533 --> 00:23:31,994
and she said, I know these guys
from New York.

488
00:23:32,077 --> 00:23:33,495
I've had dealings with them.

489
00:23:33,579 --> 00:23:35,664
Do you have any idea
who these people are?

490
00:23:35,748 --> 00:23:38,334
They're not
who they appear to be.

491
00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:40,002
You don't want anything
to do with them.

492
00:23:40,044 --> 00:23:41,503
Just steer clear.

493
00:23:41,545 --> 00:23:45,257
- I looked at her,
and I said, just be careful.

494
00:23:45,341 --> 00:23:47,009
And she cut me off.

495
00:23:47,051 --> 00:23:48,844
She didn't want to hear that.

496
00:23:48,886 --> 00:23:52,181
She wanted to hear
how wonderful it was.

497
00:23:52,222 --> 00:23:53,766
- At the time, I just--

498
00:23:53,849 --> 00:23:56,852
I guess, I just attributed it
to small-town gossip

499
00:23:56,894 --> 00:23:59,021
and that sort of thing.

500
00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:01,023
I mean, to me,
we're all friends.

501
00:24:01,065 --> 00:24:04,026
We're working together
on these projects.

502
00:24:04,068 --> 00:24:07,029
We were just like a family.

503
00:24:07,112 --> 00:24:11,325
- I still was modeling
full-time and traveling a lot.

504
00:24:11,408 --> 00:24:13,661
So, when the E! Channel
was doing a special

505
00:24:13,744 --> 00:24:15,537
on male models,

506
00:24:15,579 --> 00:24:18,040
I suggested they come down
to North Carolina

507
00:24:18,123 --> 00:24:20,084
and see this life I had.

508
00:24:20,167 --> 00:24:22,252
Hey, come on in.
This is the Lotus Group.

509
00:24:22,336 --> 00:24:24,213
Our office is down here
in North Carolina.

510
00:24:24,254 --> 00:24:25,881
- We thought,
he's getting press,

511
00:24:25,965 --> 00:24:27,675
and he's getting
a whole segment.

512
00:24:27,716 --> 00:24:31,387
This could be good PR
for everyone in the group.

513
00:24:31,428 --> 00:24:34,682
- You're watching E!,
the entertainment authority.

514
00:24:34,765 --> 00:24:37,059
I've always wanted to do--
[laughing]

515
00:24:37,142 --> 00:24:39,478
- Basically,
the general note was,

516
00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,230
don't be a weirdo.

517
00:24:41,313 --> 00:24:44,483
But the whole thing
was staged and fake.

518
00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:46,902
- One of the great things about
working here at Lotus Group is,

519
00:24:46,944 --> 00:24:50,698
you're greeted every day
by our lovely Blair.

520
00:24:50,781 --> 00:24:54,076
- I mean, they'd hired a woman

521
00:24:54,159 --> 00:24:56,412
to be the receptionist.

522
00:24:56,495 --> 00:24:59,832
She was not a part
of the group.

523
00:24:59,915 --> 00:25:03,252
I don't think Hoyt spent
seconds in his life

524
00:25:03,293 --> 00:25:05,921
before that shot...

525
00:25:05,963 --> 00:25:07,423
talking to Blair.

526
00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:10,426
- She takes care
of all the phones down here.

527
00:25:10,509 --> 00:25:11,885
She's a lovely lady.

528
00:25:11,969 --> 00:25:14,096
- And we had
this awkward dinner,

529
00:25:14,179 --> 00:25:16,473
where, for some reason,

530
00:25:16,557 --> 00:25:19,393
I've got a fucking suit
and tie on.

531
00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:24,148
I remember looking over
at Hoyt, like, seriously?

532
00:25:24,231 --> 00:25:26,275
When's the last fucking time
we sat down

533
00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:28,277
and ate dinner at the table?

534
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,070
[indistinct chatter]

535
00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:32,322
- He's reportedly
the highest-paid male model

536
00:25:32,406 --> 00:25:35,284
in the world, but after nearly
a decade in the business,

537
00:25:35,325 --> 00:25:37,286
success has not gone
to Hoyt Richard's head.

538
00:25:37,327 --> 00:25:41,290
- The E! TV show--we
didn't see the finished edit

539
00:25:41,373 --> 00:25:42,791
until it went live on the air.

540
00:25:42,833 --> 00:25:44,960
- When Hoyt's not working,
he's here,

541
00:25:45,002 --> 00:25:46,295
among the calm and quiet

542
00:25:46,336 --> 00:25:48,130
of the North Carolina
mountains.

543
00:25:48,213 --> 00:25:50,132
- E! Made it all about Hoyt.

544
00:25:50,215 --> 00:25:52,468
- Hoyt also manages
a construction company.

545
00:25:52,551 --> 00:25:54,261
- Hoyt's got these businesses,

546
00:25:54,303 --> 00:25:56,472
and he's employing
his friends.

547
00:25:56,513 --> 00:26:00,142
That created tension
amongst all of us

548
00:26:00,184 --> 00:26:01,643
in the group...

549
00:26:01,727 --> 00:26:04,146
- Well, we won't bother you
too much longer.

550
00:26:04,229 --> 00:26:06,273
But Dave's the authority
on all this stuff.

551
00:26:06,315 --> 00:26:08,317
- Because you
had to remain humble.

552
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,154
You know, he's getting
a big head.

553
00:26:12,237 --> 00:26:15,532
- In that group context,
I was always on eggshells,

554
00:26:15,616 --> 00:26:17,534
like a lot of us were.

555
00:26:17,618 --> 00:26:19,995
We became like
a more dysfunctional family

556
00:26:20,037 --> 00:26:22,539
that was kind of holding out
for the apocalypse.

557
00:26:22,623 --> 00:26:25,125
This is our production office.

558
00:26:25,209 --> 00:26:27,669
You know, in many ways,
when Frederick was alive,

559
00:26:27,711 --> 00:26:29,797
he definitely...

560
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,007
kind of spoiled me
to some degree,

561
00:26:32,049 --> 00:26:34,551
and that built up
a lot of resentment

562
00:26:34,635 --> 00:26:36,178
in some of the other members.

563
00:26:36,261 --> 00:26:38,972
♪ ♪

564
00:26:39,014 --> 00:26:43,519
- The irony of it is,
he's still funding shit.

565
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,480
He would be gone on the road.

566
00:26:46,522 --> 00:26:49,108
Caribbean island one week,
next week he's in Sweden.

567
00:26:49,191 --> 00:26:52,986
The next week
he's in Los Angeles.

568
00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:54,863
- When I was on the road,

569
00:26:54,905 --> 00:26:57,199
there were friends and
relationships I was developing

570
00:26:57,282 --> 00:26:59,118
outside the group.

571
00:26:59,201 --> 00:27:02,204
And I met a woman
named Donna in L.A.

572
00:27:02,246 --> 00:27:04,039
She was a beautiful brunette,

573
00:27:04,081 --> 00:27:06,333
and I was very intrigued
by her.

574
00:27:06,375 --> 00:27:08,961
And so we just started
to see each other,

575
00:27:09,044 --> 00:27:10,963
and it was
very kind of sporadic.

576
00:27:11,046 --> 00:27:12,631
I was traveling so much,

577
00:27:12,714 --> 00:27:14,842
and I could only see her
maybe once--

578
00:27:14,925 --> 00:27:17,719
even sometimes once
every two months.

579
00:27:17,761 --> 00:27:20,264
But I had developed
these real feelings for her,

580
00:27:20,347 --> 00:27:22,057
and I realized
that these things

581
00:27:22,099 --> 00:27:24,059
that had been so demonized
over the years,

582
00:27:24,101 --> 00:27:25,227
this idea of romantic love--

583
00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:27,187
I'm like,
it doesn't feel so bad.

584
00:27:27,271 --> 00:27:29,731
I'm like, I really feel
like she's in my corner,

585
00:27:29,815 --> 00:27:31,233
and she cares about me.

586
00:27:31,316 --> 00:27:33,861
And that relationship
with Donna was something

587
00:27:33,902 --> 00:27:38,615
that started to unlock my heart
in a way that I never expected.

588
00:27:38,699 --> 00:27:40,701
But I did it covertly.

589
00:27:40,784 --> 00:27:43,370
No one in the group
knew about that.

590
00:27:46,123 --> 00:27:49,501
[spacey music]

591
00:27:49,585 --> 00:27:52,880
- In the year 1999,
the magnetic poles will shift,

592
00:27:52,963 --> 00:27:54,840
and humanity
will be decimated.

593
00:27:54,923 --> 00:27:59,261
- In 1999, the group
was getting smaller.

594
00:27:59,303 --> 00:28:00,929
And for
the remaining members--

595
00:28:00,971 --> 00:28:04,933
everyone was very reliant
on each other to survive.

596
00:28:04,975 --> 00:28:07,102
Here it is.

597
00:28:07,186 --> 00:28:10,105
These were some
of the notes I wrote.

598
00:28:10,189 --> 00:28:13,275
"Operation: Safe Place."

599
00:28:13,317 --> 00:28:15,652
- There was a lot of talk
after Frederick died

600
00:28:15,736 --> 00:28:17,237
about the pole shift.

601
00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:20,949
- 1/10 of 1% of the population
will be saved.

602
00:28:20,991 --> 00:28:23,202
- That's how the plan
started to get rolling.

603
00:28:28,665 --> 00:28:31,919
- We needed to start
stockpiling food

604
00:28:32,002 --> 00:28:34,004
and be able to live
off the grid.

605
00:28:38,592 --> 00:28:41,678
- They believed
that there was gonna be

606
00:28:41,762 --> 00:28:45,140
some major earth-changing,

607
00:28:45,182 --> 00:28:48,310
catastrophic world event

608
00:28:48,352 --> 00:28:50,145
and that Lake Lure

609
00:28:50,187 --> 00:28:53,398
was one of the safe places.

610
00:28:53,482 --> 00:28:57,152
They owned some property
way up on the mountain

611
00:28:57,236 --> 00:28:58,779
that had caves.

612
00:28:58,862 --> 00:29:03,158
And that's where
everyone was gonna go.

613
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,410
- How was it gonna happen?

614
00:29:05,494 --> 00:29:08,247
Was the timeline right?

615
00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:11,917
And then the conversation
began to turn

616
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,002
towards guns.

617
00:29:14,086 --> 00:29:15,587
[gunshot]

618
00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:18,048
- We learned
how to shoot guns.

619
00:29:18,131 --> 00:29:22,177
- I had a shotgun,
and I had a .45.

620
00:29:22,219 --> 00:29:25,347
- It was just--
accumulate and provide

621
00:29:25,389 --> 00:29:28,725
the best defense
for the future.

622
00:29:28,809 --> 00:29:33,188
- And it just devolved
into this quickly.

623
00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:35,691
[dramatic music]

624
00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:39,528
- Oh, yeah, they had
quite an arsenal.

625
00:29:39,569 --> 00:29:42,364
They had stockpiled
storage units

626
00:29:42,406 --> 00:29:46,326
just chock-full
of all the survival stuff,

627
00:29:46,410 --> 00:29:49,955
to be safe until the world
settled back down,

628
00:29:50,038 --> 00:29:53,625
and then they would come in
and help everyone

629
00:29:53,709 --> 00:29:55,502
and save everyone.

630
00:29:55,585 --> 00:29:58,547
♪ ♪

631
00:29:58,630 --> 00:30:02,217
So I was the only girl
that was left.

632
00:30:02,259 --> 00:30:06,722
And my boyfriend sat me down
one night and asked me,

633
00:30:06,763 --> 00:30:09,808
we're all gonna be together
to survive.

634
00:30:09,891 --> 00:30:14,646
It would only be fair
if you were willing to have sex

635
00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:16,189
with the other guys,

636
00:30:16,231 --> 00:30:19,651
and who would you be willing
to have sex with?

637
00:30:19,735 --> 00:30:22,404
And I remember just being so...

638
00:30:22,487 --> 00:30:25,407
absolutely shocked
and appalled.

639
00:30:25,490 --> 00:30:27,868
And I'm like,
you've got to be kidding me.

640
00:30:27,951 --> 00:30:30,412
And I wouldn't give him
any names.

641
00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:32,414
And he was getting
angry with me.

642
00:30:32,497 --> 00:30:36,293
And I was like, no,
I would never consider it.

643
00:30:36,376 --> 00:30:39,921
- There at the end,
we thought we needed women

644
00:30:39,963 --> 00:30:42,132
to help repopulate the planet

645
00:30:42,215 --> 00:30:45,927
and raise enlightened beings.

646
00:30:45,969 --> 00:30:48,805
It's like a bad sci-fi script.

647
00:30:48,889 --> 00:30:51,433
♪ ♪

648
00:30:51,475 --> 00:30:54,269
- As the millennium
was approaching,

649
00:30:54,311 --> 00:30:56,688
there were gonna be
all these Earth changes,

650
00:30:56,772 --> 00:30:59,358
like tidal waves
and hurricanes.

651
00:30:59,441 --> 00:31:01,568
We were starting
to buy gold and silver

652
00:31:01,651 --> 00:31:03,278
'cause that was gonna be

653
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,405
the only tangible
money source.

654
00:31:05,489 --> 00:31:07,449
Meanwhile, I'm, like, flying
to London for a gig,

655
00:31:07,491 --> 00:31:10,702
and I'm like, economies
aren't collapsing...

656
00:31:10,786 --> 00:31:14,456
[chuckles]
No tidal waves, no earthquakes.

657
00:31:14,539 --> 00:31:16,458
It all sounds ludicrous,

658
00:31:16,541 --> 00:31:19,628
but part
of my critical thinking

659
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:22,297
started to come back.

660
00:31:22,339 --> 00:31:25,092
And that's when I started
to approach the group

661
00:31:25,175 --> 00:31:26,968
with the idea--

662
00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:28,845
you know, you guys are here
in North Carolina.

663
00:31:28,929 --> 00:31:30,472
You're kind of in a bubble.

664
00:31:30,555 --> 00:31:32,682
I'm telling you, nothing's
happening out there.

665
00:31:32,766 --> 00:31:36,186
And so I got attacked
for that.

666
00:31:36,269 --> 00:31:39,648
And in that same conversation--

667
00:31:39,731 --> 00:31:41,691
I thought it couldn't get
any worse--

668
00:31:41,775 --> 00:31:45,112
I'm like, oh, and by the way,
I've been seeing someone.

669
00:31:45,195 --> 00:31:47,447
All hell broke loose.

670
00:31:47,531 --> 00:31:49,825
What do you mean
you're seeing someone?

671
00:31:49,866 --> 00:31:52,160
♪ ♪

672
00:31:52,244 --> 00:31:56,498
At that point, they just said,
you got to break up with her.

673
00:31:56,540 --> 00:31:58,750
You're being selfish,
and you're being unfair to her.

674
00:31:58,834 --> 00:32:00,127
You know, what are you doing?

675
00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:01,336
And they painted it like,

676
00:32:01,378 --> 00:32:03,338
you're just being
a motherfucker to this girl.

677
00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:05,674
She has no idea
what you're involved with.

678
00:32:05,757 --> 00:32:08,927
And, you know,
I told Donna,

679
00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:11,513
I thought I wanted to be
in this relationship,

680
00:32:11,596 --> 00:32:13,306
but I've decided I don't.

681
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:18,270
And it was incredibly harsh
and severe.

682
00:32:18,353 --> 00:32:21,523
And treating her that way
really did not...

683
00:32:21,606 --> 00:32:23,775
[somber music]

684
00:32:23,859 --> 00:32:26,194
[voice breaking]
Did not sit well with me.

685
00:32:26,278 --> 00:32:28,905
And that started this whole
period where they're like,

686
00:32:28,989 --> 00:32:31,158
okay, we got to save Hoyt
from himself.

687
00:32:31,199 --> 00:32:34,578
He's clearly losing his mind.
He can't survive out there.

688
00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:37,038
We've got to bring him back
here to North Carolina.

689
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,333
We have to watch him
under lock and key.

690
00:32:40,417 --> 00:32:41,918
- They were having him do

691
00:32:42,002 --> 00:32:44,754
every menial job possible

692
00:32:44,838 --> 00:32:47,007
to teach him humility.

693
00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:49,384
- You know, I had to be
the first one up,

694
00:32:49,468 --> 00:32:50,760
the last one to bed.

695
00:32:50,844 --> 00:32:52,762
I was doing all
the kind of shit work

696
00:32:52,846 --> 00:32:55,682
that no one else wanted to do.

697
00:32:55,765 --> 00:32:58,185
- I got a call saying,
you know,

698
00:32:58,268 --> 00:33:00,353
come over to the lake house.

699
00:33:00,437 --> 00:33:03,064
John was in serious trouble.

700
00:33:03,106 --> 00:33:05,400
And I walked into the kitchen,

701
00:33:05,442 --> 00:33:08,570
and John was sitting there,
very submissive,

702
00:33:08,612 --> 00:33:12,991
sitting at the kitchen table,
and his whole head was shaved.

703
00:33:13,074 --> 00:33:14,951
I mean, he was bald.

704
00:33:16,745 --> 00:33:18,580
And I was like,
oh, my gosh, you know,

705
00:33:18,663 --> 00:33:21,082
what happened to your head?

706
00:33:21,166 --> 00:33:25,921
And they were like, yeah,
tell Meg about what happened.

707
00:33:25,962 --> 00:33:27,797
- The guys had instructed me

708
00:33:27,881 --> 00:33:30,759
that I was gonna have to move
to North Carolina

709
00:33:30,842 --> 00:33:34,221
and give up my career.

710
00:33:34,304 --> 00:33:38,642
I knew, like, in my heart,
I'm not ready to do this.

711
00:33:38,725 --> 00:33:41,394
But they said,
just so you have no temptation

712
00:33:41,478 --> 00:33:43,271
to even think
about leaving here,

713
00:33:43,313 --> 00:33:46,233
we're gonna shave your head so
that you can't model anymore.

714
00:33:46,316 --> 00:33:49,152
[dramatic music]

715
00:33:49,236 --> 00:33:52,280
I remember, you know,
looking in the mirror,

716
00:33:52,322 --> 00:33:54,991
and I kept thinking to myself,

717
00:33:55,075 --> 00:33:57,452
If I had hair, I could
actually probably, like, be

718
00:33:57,494 --> 00:34:00,038
in Milan right now...

719
00:34:00,121 --> 00:34:03,458
or Paris, you know,
with, like, Claudia Schiffer

720
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:06,461
or Cindy Crawford,
making 25 G's a day.

721
00:34:06,503 --> 00:34:10,465
I guess I'm not spiritual,
'cause I'd rather be there.

722
00:34:10,549 --> 00:34:14,886
I became, as they called it,
the bald hausfrau.

723
00:34:14,969 --> 00:34:18,056
I interpreted it as, like,
it's my own fault.

724
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:20,141
If I would just pull my head
out of my ass

725
00:34:20,183 --> 00:34:21,893
and be more like them,

726
00:34:21,976 --> 00:34:23,978
I wouldn't have to go
through this.

727
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:25,647
But because I'm somehow flawed

728
00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:28,440
and because there's
something wrong with me,

729
00:34:28,525 --> 00:34:30,694
I just feel like
they're never gonna give up.

730
00:34:30,777 --> 00:34:34,030
I was like, I don't think
I'm ever gonna measure up

731
00:34:34,114 --> 00:34:37,284
to what they're asking me
to be.

732
00:34:37,324 --> 00:34:39,034
I just got to the point
where I'm like,

733
00:34:39,119 --> 00:34:41,036
I just can't take this.

734
00:34:41,121 --> 00:34:44,456
And so I mapped out a plan
to just escape,

735
00:34:44,541 --> 00:34:47,210
and I went
to the airport and left.

736
00:34:47,293 --> 00:34:48,503
I got to New York.

737
00:34:48,545 --> 00:34:50,505
I was putting
my things together.

738
00:34:50,547 --> 00:34:54,175
I was gonna be there one night
before I left.

739
00:34:54,217 --> 00:34:57,178
And sure enough, man,
they appeared at that door

740
00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:58,513
in New York City.

741
00:34:58,597 --> 00:35:01,600
♪ ♪

742
00:35:01,683 --> 00:35:05,312
I remember one of the guys
sat in the doorway

743
00:35:05,395 --> 00:35:07,314
to make sure that
in the middle of the night,

744
00:35:07,397 --> 00:35:09,149
I couldn't leave.

745
00:35:09,232 --> 00:35:12,944
And so I was sleeping
by the window...

746
00:35:13,028 --> 00:35:14,863
[voice breaking]
And I thought about jumping.

747
00:35:14,946 --> 00:35:18,366
[swallows hard]

748
00:35:18,408 --> 00:35:20,702
But I didn't.

749
00:35:20,785 --> 00:35:23,622
And they brought me
back to North Carolina.

750
00:35:25,415 --> 00:35:30,003
And I lasted, I think,
three, four more weeks.

751
00:35:30,086 --> 00:35:32,547
And I was like, this time
I'm not getting caught.

752
00:35:32,631 --> 00:35:34,549
No fucking way, man.

753
00:35:34,591 --> 00:35:39,554
♪ ♪

754
00:35:39,596 --> 00:35:44,392
It was actually
the weekend of July 4th.

755
00:35:44,476 --> 00:35:48,730
And when I left,
I constructed a letter to leave

756
00:35:48,813 --> 00:35:50,940
for the guys in North Carolina
to alert them,

757
00:35:51,024 --> 00:35:52,651
to kind of say, I've gone.

758
00:35:54,444 --> 00:35:56,613
"It's official, I quit.

759
00:35:56,696 --> 00:35:59,949
"Everything you've ever said
about me is true.

760
00:36:00,033 --> 00:36:01,951
"I'm hopeless
and totally selfish.

761
00:36:02,035 --> 00:36:04,162
"I'm the laziest person
in the room.

762
00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:06,581
"I've wasted my life.

763
00:36:06,665 --> 00:36:09,167
"I deserve to spend the rest
of my life with the trash,

764
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:10,377
"just like myself.

765
00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:12,671
"David, you've always said,
at this time,

766
00:36:12,754 --> 00:36:14,589
"when everything
is falling apart,

767
00:36:14,631 --> 00:36:16,758
"people's true colors
will be shown.

768
00:36:16,841 --> 00:36:19,928
"I cringe to think
of the penalty that I will pay.

769
00:36:19,969 --> 00:36:21,888
"It was not bad enough
to betray Frederick

770
00:36:21,971 --> 00:36:24,182
"and all he stood for,
but now all of you.

771
00:36:24,265 --> 00:36:25,600
"As I've said many times,

772
00:36:25,642 --> 00:36:27,435
"you're the only real friends
I've ever had.

773
00:36:27,477 --> 00:36:30,188
You will never see me again."

774
00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:32,524
Signed, Dipshit."

775
00:36:32,607 --> 00:36:38,780
♪ ♪

776
00:36:38,822 --> 00:36:42,492
So I had organized
a call to a cab--

777
00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:45,161
meet me at 2:30
in the morning,

778
00:36:45,245 --> 00:36:48,289
hoping that at that point,
everyone would be asleep.

779
00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:50,625
We had two German shepherds,

780
00:36:50,667 --> 00:36:53,420
so I had to creep
and stay quiet,

781
00:36:53,503 --> 00:36:55,797
keep the dogs calm.

782
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,007
And we had a gravel driveway

783
00:36:58,091 --> 00:37:01,094
about a mile and a half
down the hill

784
00:37:01,177 --> 00:37:03,179
through forest.

785
00:37:03,263 --> 00:37:05,807
But when I felt
like I was out of earshot,

786
00:37:05,849 --> 00:37:07,767
I just fucking bolted.

787
00:37:07,851 --> 00:37:10,061
♪ ♪

788
00:37:10,145 --> 00:37:11,396
And I was gone.

789
00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:16,234
Yeah, and that time,
I never came back.

790
00:37:16,317 --> 00:37:18,987
♪ ♪

791
00:37:19,028 --> 00:37:22,782
- I remember asking
one of the guys, where's John?

792
00:37:22,866 --> 00:37:24,075
I haven't seen him around.

793
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,077
Or has he gone
back to New York?

794
00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:28,329
And he said,
yeah, he's left, he's gone.

795
00:37:28,413 --> 00:37:30,915
And I was not
to talk about John.

796
00:37:30,999 --> 00:37:33,835
I was not to ask about him.

797
00:37:33,918 --> 00:37:36,838
- I left.
I went to California.

798
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,633
I put as much land
between me and them.

799
00:37:40,717 --> 00:37:45,096
I had about $3,000,
but I didn't know where to go.

800
00:37:48,391 --> 00:37:50,477
- I remember Hoyt--
he called me,

801
00:37:50,518 --> 00:37:54,564
and he told me, you know,
he was really in bad shape.

802
00:37:56,566 --> 00:37:59,527
He was really beat up.

803
00:37:59,611 --> 00:38:01,738
I mean, his brain went blank.

804
00:38:01,821 --> 00:38:04,073
He was, like, a straight line,

805
00:38:04,157 --> 00:38:07,869
morally, spiritually--

806
00:38:07,952 --> 00:38:10,121
just like a zombie.

807
00:38:10,205 --> 00:38:11,623
And I said, listen, you know,

808
00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:13,875
you can stay here
until, you know, you figure out

809
00:38:13,958 --> 00:38:15,543
what you want to do
in your life.

810
00:38:15,627 --> 00:38:17,128
You can stay in my place

811
00:38:17,212 --> 00:38:20,215
so you don't have to worry
about bills.

812
00:38:20,256 --> 00:38:23,051
- Fabio is incredibly loyal.

813
00:38:23,092 --> 00:38:26,012
It's like, you're his friend,
you're his friend for life.

814
00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:29,057
I don't know if he
just knew instinctively

815
00:38:29,098 --> 00:38:32,227
or whether he had so much
going on in his own career.

816
00:38:32,310 --> 00:38:35,855
But at the time, he played it
off like, you know, nothing.

817
00:38:35,939 --> 00:38:38,525
Come stay.
You know, let's go to the gym.

818
00:38:38,608 --> 00:38:40,401
No questions asked.

819
00:38:40,485 --> 00:38:42,403
Didn't even ask me
why my head was shaved.

820
00:38:42,445 --> 00:38:45,573
I made up some story about
some extreme modeling job.

821
00:38:45,615 --> 00:38:48,117
- Hoyt was being
an extremely successful model

822
00:38:48,201 --> 00:38:51,788
and, all of a sudden, was left
with no money, nothing.

823
00:38:51,871 --> 00:38:53,414
These people--
they were like piranhas.

824
00:38:53,498 --> 00:38:56,125
I mean, they left him
with nothing.

825
00:38:56,209 --> 00:38:59,420
♪ ♪

826
00:38:59,462 --> 00:39:01,756
- Being at Fabio's...

827
00:39:01,798 --> 00:39:03,758
just gave me
a place to incubate

828
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,720
and start to process
some of my feelings.

829
00:39:07,804 --> 00:39:11,432
I was still contemplating,
maybe I should return.

830
00:39:11,474 --> 00:39:14,102
- Hoyt was very honest
and very open about it.

831
00:39:14,143 --> 00:39:17,105
And I knew
that they will come.

832
00:39:17,188 --> 00:39:19,190
Eventually life will slap you
in the face,

833
00:39:19,274 --> 00:39:21,192
and you realize,
oh, my God, you know,

834
00:39:21,276 --> 00:39:25,572
it's like, I've been taken
for a ride.

835
00:39:25,655 --> 00:39:27,574
I told him, I said, listen,

836
00:39:27,657 --> 00:39:29,576
what people do
most of the time in life?

837
00:39:29,659 --> 00:39:31,786
They always blame
somebody else.

838
00:39:31,828 --> 00:39:35,039
It takes two to tangle in life.

839
00:39:35,123 --> 00:39:36,958
He got sucked in...

840
00:39:37,041 --> 00:39:40,795
but he was smart enough
to get out

841
00:39:40,837 --> 00:39:43,464
and realize,
I made a big mistake.

842
00:39:43,548 --> 00:39:46,175
You know what?
What I gonna do now?

843
00:39:46,259 --> 00:39:48,303
♪ ♪

844
00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:52,307
- After about a year,
I went to meet a friend

845
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:55,184
at a lunch place
in Beverly Hills...

846
00:39:55,268 --> 00:39:57,979
and the maître d' there
recognized me.

847
00:39:58,021 --> 00:39:59,814
And he said,
are you Hoyt Richards?

848
00:39:59,856 --> 00:40:01,190
And I said, yeah, yeah.

849
00:40:01,274 --> 00:40:03,526
And he's like,
I'm friends with Dar.

850
00:40:03,610 --> 00:40:07,363
And I didn't really know
how to respond.

851
00:40:07,447 --> 00:40:09,991
So I said, please tell Dar

852
00:40:10,074 --> 00:40:12,660
I'm living in L.A.
and I'm alone.

853
00:40:12,702 --> 00:40:14,996
And I'm like, God, I hope
he gets the message, man,

854
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:17,582
and I hope he knows
what I'm saying.

855
00:40:17,665 --> 00:40:19,417
And three weeks go by,

856
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,921
and I get this phone call
I don't recognize.

857
00:40:23,004 --> 00:40:26,257
Hey, Hoyter, it's Dar.
I'm like, hey, Dar.

858
00:40:26,341 --> 00:40:28,635
He's like, yeah, I'm calling
from my therapist's office.

859
00:40:28,718 --> 00:40:32,263
[laughing] My therapist
said I should call you.

860
00:40:32,347 --> 00:40:34,474
- When we
finally ended up meeting,

861
00:40:34,515 --> 00:40:38,186
I told him, no more
North Carolina for me.

862
00:40:38,227 --> 00:40:41,189
I began to explain--

863
00:40:41,272 --> 00:40:44,025
in North Carolina,
just before I left,

864
00:40:44,108 --> 00:40:46,694
I was in a bar
and having a good time.

865
00:40:46,736 --> 00:40:50,865
But when I got into the car...
[imitates siren wailing]

866
00:40:50,907 --> 00:40:54,494
We had a loaded assault rifle
in the car,

867
00:40:54,577 --> 00:40:56,412
and we didn't pull over.

868
00:40:56,496 --> 00:41:01,000
We drove down the driveway
into the lake house and parked.

869
00:41:01,084 --> 00:41:03,211
I jump out of the car.

870
00:41:03,294 --> 00:41:06,089
This guy had called
for backup.

871
00:41:06,172 --> 00:41:08,925
And I got tackled from behind.

872
00:41:09,008 --> 00:41:11,052
- I mean,
it was Highway Patrol,

873
00:41:11,094 --> 00:41:14,639
sheriffs, police,
siren, lights everywhere.

874
00:41:14,722 --> 00:41:16,516
And the guys were screaming
and yelling,

875
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,226
don't tell them your name.

876
00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:19,894
Don't tell them your name.

877
00:41:19,936 --> 00:41:22,105
They don't have to have
any information.

878
00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:25,733
- After we got out on bail,

879
00:41:25,775 --> 00:41:29,404
we filed this paperwork, which
I wasn't even really clear on,

880
00:41:29,487 --> 00:41:31,489
but it was the same type
of paperwork

881
00:41:31,572 --> 00:41:35,034
that these militiamen
and the guy at Ruby Ridge

882
00:41:35,118 --> 00:41:36,577
had filled out,

883
00:41:36,661 --> 00:41:39,831
telling the government, you
don't have any power over us.

884
00:41:39,914 --> 00:41:42,041
We're sovereign people.

885
00:41:42,125 --> 00:41:45,336
But we really pissed off
the entire state.

886
00:41:45,420 --> 00:41:48,464
And they let the lawyers

887
00:41:48,548 --> 00:41:51,092
and they let the private
investigators know

888
00:41:51,175 --> 00:41:54,887
that we were considered
anti-government terrorists.

889
00:41:54,971 --> 00:41:56,931
♪ ♪

890
00:41:57,015 --> 00:41:59,475
After that happened,
I woke up,

891
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:02,895
and I thought to myself,
fuck this.

892
00:42:02,979 --> 00:42:05,314
And I called up my folks,

893
00:42:05,398 --> 00:42:08,568
and that was my out
from the group.

894
00:42:08,651 --> 00:42:11,320
And I was scared
to death when I did it.

895
00:42:11,404 --> 00:42:13,948
[plane engine roaring]

896
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:16,159
- Dar and I ended up
becoming roommates,

897
00:42:16,242 --> 00:42:18,911
and we spent
the first six months

898
00:42:18,953 --> 00:42:21,789
just trying to deconstruct the
whole Eternal Values experience

899
00:42:21,831 --> 00:42:23,124
as best as we could.

900
00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:24,959
Like, hey, man, do you remember
when this happened?

901
00:42:25,001 --> 00:42:26,753
What do you think
was going on there?

902
00:42:26,836 --> 00:42:28,963
Like, that was weird, right?
Like, what was that?

903
00:42:29,005 --> 00:42:31,382
- We really started
to reverse engineer

904
00:42:31,466 --> 00:42:32,842
what had happened.

905
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,555
We start to revisit things

906
00:42:37,638 --> 00:42:39,974
that had been said
by Frederick.

907
00:42:40,058 --> 00:42:42,643
- As we've said before
and we wish to emphasize again,

908
00:42:42,685 --> 00:42:45,396
these platforms
are to bring knowledge

909
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,483
to the general public
to prevent...

910
00:42:48,566 --> 00:42:50,526
the spread of cults
through information,

911
00:42:50,610 --> 00:42:52,695
instead of fear and guilt
and superstition.

912
00:42:52,779 --> 00:42:54,155
You cannot stop cults

913
00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:56,157
through fear and guilt
and superstition,

914
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,493
only through radiant, glowing,
shining universal knowledge.

915
00:42:58,576 --> 00:43:01,537
Anyone who has you bow
or worship them

916
00:43:01,621 --> 00:43:03,122
as a physical form

917
00:43:03,206 --> 00:43:04,373
is an instrument

918
00:43:04,457 --> 00:43:07,001
of the most dark and diabolical
forces on the Earth.

919
00:43:07,043 --> 00:43:08,878
- You know, people
have been saying for years

920
00:43:08,961 --> 00:43:10,463
this thing's a cult.

921
00:43:10,546 --> 00:43:13,508
You think maybe there's some
chance it could have been?

922
00:43:13,549 --> 00:43:15,802
- My head just...
[imitates explosion]

923
00:43:15,843 --> 00:43:18,471
And I couldn't even hear what
Hoyt said for a good minute.

924
00:43:18,554 --> 00:43:20,014
- I'm against cults.

925
00:43:20,056 --> 00:43:23,976
Don't anybody try to tell me
that I am a cult.

926
00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:26,020
- I said, do you know much
about cults?

927
00:43:26,062 --> 00:43:27,271
And he's like, well, no, no.

928
00:43:27,355 --> 00:43:29,607
I'm like, well, neither do I.
I don't think it was a cult.

929
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:32,527
Let me just try to do
a little bit of research.

930
00:43:32,568 --> 00:43:34,487
And the best-selling book
was this book called

931
00:43:34,570 --> 00:43:36,531
"Combating Cult Mind Control."

932
00:43:36,572 --> 00:43:38,199
- Mind control exists.

933
00:43:38,282 --> 00:43:41,202
Intelligent, bright people
can be deceived...

934
00:43:41,285 --> 00:43:43,162
- Steve Hassan,
who's a former Moonie...

935
00:43:43,246 --> 00:43:45,206
- Indoctrinated
into committing

936
00:43:45,289 --> 00:43:46,666
horrendous acts.

937
00:43:46,749 --> 00:43:49,877
- I thought to myself,
that's definitely a cult.

938
00:43:49,961 --> 00:43:51,712
- But I got the book.

939
00:43:51,754 --> 00:43:54,215
The first 60, maybe 70 pages

940
00:43:54,298 --> 00:43:56,592
was how he had been
indoctrinated.

941
00:43:56,676 --> 00:43:59,053
Boy, you could have
just changed the names,

942
00:43:59,095 --> 00:44:01,889
and it was my story,
and I'm like...

943
00:44:01,973 --> 00:44:04,684
- That was a seminal moment
in my life.

944
00:44:04,767 --> 00:44:08,187
And I needed that
like I needed oxygen.

945
00:44:08,271 --> 00:44:11,858
And even if it hurt
and it was painful,

946
00:44:11,941 --> 00:44:14,735
I needed that.

947
00:44:14,777 --> 00:44:18,573
- I made a few phone calls
down to North Carolina.

948
00:44:18,614 --> 00:44:20,575
Like, you're all
in a fucking cult.

949
00:44:20,616 --> 00:44:22,076
You're brainwashed.

950
00:44:22,118 --> 00:44:24,745
And I knew it was all falling
on deaf ears,

951
00:44:24,829 --> 00:44:27,373
but, man, it felt good.

952
00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:31,043
- John reached out to me,

953
00:44:31,127 --> 00:44:33,880
and he said, Meg, it's a cult.

954
00:44:33,963 --> 00:44:37,592
It's always been a cult.

955
00:44:37,675 --> 00:44:42,096
And I remember my boyfriend
kept saying, it's not a cult,

956
00:44:42,138 --> 00:44:44,265
you fucking blah, blah, blah.

957
00:44:44,348 --> 00:44:46,267
And he's calling me
every name in the book,

958
00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:47,894
and he's screaming at me.

959
00:44:47,935 --> 00:44:50,062
And, of course,
I mean, I was hysterical.

960
00:44:50,146 --> 00:44:53,649
I am shaking, and I'm thinking,
can I get out of here now?

961
00:44:53,733 --> 00:44:55,943
Well, I had my dad's pistol,

962
00:44:55,985 --> 00:44:59,071
and I shot the gun off
in the ceiling.

963
00:44:59,155 --> 00:45:02,491
And the second I did that,
I was like, holy crap.

964
00:45:02,575 --> 00:45:04,118
You know, it's just shock.

965
00:45:04,202 --> 00:45:06,829
♪ ♪

966
00:45:06,913 --> 00:45:09,290
- When things
went south with Meg

967
00:45:09,332 --> 00:45:12,793
is when my wife
and I became involved,

968
00:45:12,877 --> 00:45:16,923
and then you could see
the dark side of...

969
00:45:17,006 --> 00:45:18,674
of Eternal Value members.

970
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:21,636
And they were certainly
threatening to Meg.

971
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,804
♪ ♪

972
00:45:23,888 --> 00:45:25,932
- I just--I couldn't.
I was done.

973
00:45:26,015 --> 00:45:27,725
I was terrified.

974
00:45:27,808 --> 00:45:30,645
So I packed up,
and I moved home.

975
00:45:30,728 --> 00:45:33,981
♪ ♪

976
00:45:34,023 --> 00:45:37,735
- At that time,
I was virtually broke,

977
00:45:37,818 --> 00:45:40,404
but I always had
in the back of my mind,

978
00:45:40,488 --> 00:45:42,323
I have a cushion
'cause I've got these gems

979
00:45:42,406 --> 00:45:47,161
that I've probably paid
close to $200,000 for.

980
00:45:47,203 --> 00:45:49,580
I got them all evaluated,

981
00:45:49,664 --> 00:45:51,582
and out of the six
or seven gems,

982
00:45:51,666 --> 00:45:54,335
I think they were worth
$11,000 total.

983
00:45:54,418 --> 00:45:56,712
And that's when I realized

984
00:45:56,796 --> 00:45:59,465
that I had been taken.

985
00:46:01,425 --> 00:46:04,845
All the guys in North Carolina
were still living in a house

986
00:46:04,887 --> 00:46:06,514
I helped pay for.

987
00:46:06,597 --> 00:46:09,183
They had businesses
that I had financed.

988
00:46:09,267 --> 00:46:10,559
I got really angry,

989
00:46:10,643 --> 00:46:13,145
and I ended up suing
the remaining members.

990
00:46:13,229 --> 00:46:14,981
You know, I'm gonna be
litigating

991
00:46:15,064 --> 00:46:16,732
against the individuals
that are left,

992
00:46:16,816 --> 00:46:19,026
because not only--it's not
really even the money.

993
00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:21,570
It's the issue of what they're
doing and what they stand for.

994
00:46:21,654 --> 00:46:22,738
I mean, I--

995
00:46:22,822 --> 00:46:24,573
I didn't know how it was
gonna end up,

996
00:46:24,657 --> 00:46:26,784
but, you know, my lawyer's
like, you know,

997
00:46:26,867 --> 00:46:28,953
this might be a real battle.

998
00:46:29,036 --> 00:46:31,372
- He was hell-bent
on getting his money back,

999
00:46:31,455 --> 00:46:33,207
'cause the guys
in North Carolina

1000
00:46:33,249 --> 00:46:35,376
were trying to sell
the lake house.

1001
00:46:35,459 --> 00:46:38,004
They're just trying
to sell off everything.

1002
00:46:38,087 --> 00:46:40,798
- We had 36 corporations,

1003
00:46:40,881 --> 00:46:42,967
which is one
of the most damning things.

1004
00:46:43,050 --> 00:46:46,679
It just shows that, you know,
something funky's going on.

1005
00:46:46,762 --> 00:46:51,100
We just went after them,
and it led to a mediation.

1006
00:46:52,935 --> 00:46:55,479
- John Hoyt
reached out to me,

1007
00:46:55,563 --> 00:46:58,232
and he said,
I'm suing everybody,

1008
00:46:58,274 --> 00:47:00,192
and I'm trying
to get this money.

1009
00:47:00,276 --> 00:47:01,402
Can you help me?

1010
00:47:01,485 --> 00:47:03,029
And I think he wanted me around

1011
00:47:03,112 --> 00:47:06,115
because he knew that I was
the accountant back then.

1012
00:47:06,198 --> 00:47:08,743
For me doing that, he said,

1013
00:47:08,826 --> 00:47:10,619
I'll give you $10,000,

1014
00:47:10,703 --> 00:47:12,872
you know,
once everything is settled.

1015
00:47:12,913 --> 00:47:15,416
So John and I drove
to the lake house.

1016
00:47:15,499 --> 00:47:17,710
This is the first time
I'd seen the lake house

1017
00:47:17,793 --> 00:47:20,421
in 13 years or so.

1018
00:47:20,504 --> 00:47:23,632
- At that point, I think
there were about five of them.

1019
00:47:23,716 --> 00:47:25,593
And we were having
this whole talk,

1020
00:47:25,634 --> 00:47:28,346
and they're just lying
out of their mouth.

1021
00:47:28,429 --> 00:47:31,057
But I think what was
most disturbing for me

1022
00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:33,434
was knowing that just two,
three years ago,

1023
00:47:33,476 --> 00:47:35,436
I would have been
on that side of the table

1024
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:37,438
and lying the same
way they were.

1025
00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:40,066
Everything was shady
because we didn't pertain

1026
00:47:40,149 --> 00:47:41,275
to the world's standards.

1027
00:47:41,317 --> 00:47:43,069
We were
on a different standard.

1028
00:47:43,110 --> 00:47:45,071
And I finally got to the point
where, like, listen, I can't--

1029
00:47:45,154 --> 00:47:46,864
I can't be a part
of this anymore.

1030
00:47:46,947 --> 00:47:49,283
And I left, thinking
that I was a failure.

1031
00:47:49,325 --> 00:47:53,621
♪ ♪

1032
00:47:53,704 --> 00:47:56,874
- That's where it stood,
on that property,

1033
00:47:56,957 --> 00:47:58,876
the lake house.

1034
00:47:58,959 --> 00:48:01,128
The guys thought they
were gonna be walking away

1035
00:48:01,212 --> 00:48:04,673
with a million dollars for this
property and this house,

1036
00:48:04,757 --> 00:48:07,093
but they were stopped
in their tracks.

1037
00:48:07,134 --> 00:48:11,305
♪ ♪

1038
00:48:11,389 --> 00:48:14,683
- In 2002, my lawyer had been
contacted by their lawyer,

1039
00:48:14,767 --> 00:48:16,852
and so we knew
there was an opportunity

1040
00:48:16,936 --> 00:48:18,604
to kind of resolve this.

1041
00:48:18,687 --> 00:48:21,148
And so we settled the case

1042
00:48:21,232 --> 00:48:24,693
and basically liquidated
every asset

1043
00:48:24,777 --> 00:48:26,821
that was attached
to Eternal Values,

1044
00:48:26,862 --> 00:48:30,157
and, effectively,
Eternal Values was dead.

1045
00:48:30,241 --> 00:48:33,119
And that, I could live with.

1046
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,163
♪ ♪

1047
00:48:36,205 --> 00:48:38,833
After that, I didn't know what
would happen to those guys,

1048
00:48:38,874 --> 00:48:42,503
and I really, at that point,
didn't particularly care.

1049
00:48:42,586 --> 00:48:45,172
But I just wanted
to move forward with my life.

1050
00:48:45,256 --> 00:48:49,677
♪ ♪

1051
00:48:49,718 --> 00:48:51,637
I think for me,
the hardest part

1052
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,182
is knowing
that I hurt a lot of people

1053
00:48:55,224 --> 00:48:57,935
when I went down this path.

1054
00:48:58,018 --> 00:49:01,188
You can't heal
other people's wounds,

1055
00:49:01,272 --> 00:49:03,732
but I tried to make
a sincere effort

1056
00:49:03,816 --> 00:49:06,861
to reconnect with my family.

1057
00:49:06,944 --> 00:49:10,197
And by the time I came back,

1058
00:49:10,281 --> 00:49:13,534
my mother--
she was fighting cancer.

1059
00:49:13,617 --> 00:49:15,327
[indistinct chatter]

1060
00:49:15,369 --> 00:49:18,372
That's my mother, you know,
towards the end of her life.

1061
00:49:18,414 --> 00:49:19,999
And...

1062
00:49:20,082 --> 00:49:23,669
[voice breaking]
At this point...

1063
00:49:23,752 --> 00:49:26,422
she was wearing a wig...
[sniffles]

1064
00:49:26,505 --> 00:49:30,718
because she'd been doing
chemotherapy, and...

1065
00:49:30,801 --> 00:49:33,554
[sighs]

1066
00:49:33,637 --> 00:49:35,681
You know, she was so brave.

1067
00:49:35,764 --> 00:49:37,224
- We couldn't reach you.

1068
00:49:37,266 --> 00:49:40,394
And I was the one that realized
you were in a cult.

1069
00:49:40,478 --> 00:49:44,565
- When John came out,
he came and joined everybody

1070
00:49:44,648 --> 00:49:46,400
for Christmas that year.

1071
00:49:46,442 --> 00:49:48,569
That would have really been
the first time

1072
00:49:48,652 --> 00:49:51,989
that he would have had
an opportunity

1073
00:49:52,072 --> 00:49:56,202
to meet my wife and my son
and my daughter.

1074
00:49:56,285 --> 00:49:58,871
Well, this is Helen.
This is Matthew.

1075
00:49:58,954 --> 00:50:03,334
It took a while for John
to get back to his old self.

1076
00:50:03,417 --> 00:50:04,752
It's difficult for anybody.

1077
00:50:04,835 --> 00:50:07,254
I don't think anyone
snaps out of it quickly.

1078
00:50:07,338 --> 00:50:10,090
- Okay, hi,
I am John Hoyt.

1079
00:50:10,132 --> 00:50:13,427
I'm now 41 years old.

1080
00:50:13,469 --> 00:50:17,890
[crying] And I was so terrified
of coming home.

1081
00:50:17,973 --> 00:50:22,478
My mother--as her illness
started to really take hold,

1082
00:50:22,561 --> 00:50:26,106
I chose to become
her primary caretaker.

1083
00:50:26,148 --> 00:50:27,816
In some crazy way,

1084
00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:30,444
I had been prepared for that,

1085
00:50:30,486 --> 00:50:32,988
going through it
with, you know, Freddy

1086
00:50:33,072 --> 00:50:35,616
when he was dying.

1087
00:50:35,658 --> 00:50:38,369
All she said was...

1088
00:50:38,452 --> 00:50:40,871
[voice breaking]
That she loved me...

1089
00:50:40,955 --> 00:50:45,251
[inhales sharply]
And that she understood.

1090
00:50:45,334 --> 00:50:47,753
- I'm very grateful to God,
and I thank God.

1091
00:50:47,836 --> 00:50:51,215
And I think that prayer
really made the difference

1092
00:50:51,298 --> 00:50:53,133
in bringing you home.

1093
00:50:53,175 --> 00:50:55,261
- I didn't see her
for 12 years.

1094
00:50:55,344 --> 00:50:56,804
She goes, and I kept--

1095
00:50:56,887 --> 00:50:59,640
[sighs]
I kept feeling like...

1096
00:50:59,723 --> 00:51:02,810
like you were in this prison.

1097
00:51:02,893 --> 00:51:06,522
You know, I was able
to tell her that...

1098
00:51:06,605 --> 00:51:08,649
that I think
her prayers were heard

1099
00:51:08,732 --> 00:51:11,860
and that it really did help.

1100
00:51:11,944 --> 00:51:13,279
And I felt so bad.

1101
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,824
You know, I had missed so many
weddings and graduations.

1102
00:51:16,907 --> 00:51:18,951
I was always invited.

1103
00:51:21,203 --> 00:51:23,497
But I let them all down.

1104
00:51:23,581 --> 00:51:26,834
It's just time
you just can't get back.

1105
00:51:26,917 --> 00:51:29,670
[sniffles] But...

1106
00:51:29,753 --> 00:51:32,047
my mother's illness gave me
an opportunity

1107
00:51:32,131 --> 00:51:35,509
to prove to my family...

1108
00:51:35,551 --> 00:51:38,304
[sniffles]
That I was back.

1109
00:51:38,387 --> 00:51:41,307
[somber music]

1110
00:51:41,348 --> 00:51:45,853
♪ ♪

1111
00:51:45,936 --> 00:51:48,480
It's extraordinary for me now
to look back on things

1112
00:51:48,564 --> 00:51:51,650
from the point of view
that at age 16,

1113
00:51:51,692 --> 00:51:54,445
going to the beach
to meet your buddies

1114
00:51:54,528 --> 00:51:57,489
could take your life down
the road of being in a cult.

1115
00:51:57,573 --> 00:51:59,325
I live in Nantucket
in the summer,

1116
00:51:59,366 --> 00:52:01,201
and I have many people
who come and stay with me.

1117
00:52:01,285 --> 00:52:02,703
I mean, they're from...

1118
00:52:02,786 --> 00:52:05,664
Today my recovery path
was very much

1119
00:52:05,748 --> 00:52:09,710
about trying to not
only forgive myself...

1120
00:52:09,793 --> 00:52:12,921
but also educate myself
on how it happened

1121
00:52:13,005 --> 00:52:15,591
and how to possibly give others

1122
00:52:15,674 --> 00:52:17,551
some of the red flags
to look out for

1123
00:52:17,593 --> 00:52:19,219
that I didn't know existed.

1124
00:52:19,303 --> 00:52:20,721
[applause]

1125
00:52:20,763 --> 00:52:24,600
- Hoyt, tell us how this
is like other cult behavior.

1126
00:52:24,683 --> 00:52:26,352
- You don't join a cult.

1127
00:52:26,435 --> 00:52:28,562
You know, no one ever tells you
it's a cult.

1128
00:52:28,604 --> 00:52:30,564
It's a bait-and-switch
maneuver.

1129
00:52:30,606 --> 00:52:32,941
The more I talked about
the Eternal Values

1130
00:52:33,025 --> 00:52:34,943
and Freddy, in particular,

1131
00:52:35,027 --> 00:52:38,113
people start playing a version
of that story

1132
00:52:38,197 --> 00:52:39,365
from their lives,

1133
00:52:39,448 --> 00:52:41,492
going, wait a second, this
sounds like the relationship

1134
00:52:41,575 --> 00:52:46,246
I had with my dad or my mom
or my boss or my coach.

1135
00:52:46,288 --> 00:52:47,831
I mean, I was only 16.

1136
00:52:47,915 --> 00:52:49,875
I was coming up with a lot
of things in my life.

1137
00:52:49,958 --> 00:52:52,169
The person you're seeking love
and approval from is,

1138
00:52:52,252 --> 00:52:55,172
in some way, abusing
and controlling you.

1139
00:52:55,255 --> 00:52:58,425
In the thousands
of conversations I've had,

1140
00:52:58,509 --> 00:53:00,386
I actually haven't met someone
who hasn't had

1141
00:53:00,469 --> 00:53:02,846
some sort of relationship
like that.

1142
00:53:02,930 --> 00:53:05,015
I mean, unconsciously,
I was a recruiter.

1143
00:53:05,099 --> 00:53:06,892
That's what I did.

1144
00:53:06,975 --> 00:53:08,852
You know, there
are a lot of people

1145
00:53:08,936 --> 00:53:11,271
that I am responsible
for having introduced

1146
00:53:11,313 --> 00:53:13,732
to, you know,
Freddy and Eternal Values.

1147
00:53:13,816 --> 00:53:15,984
And that's just something
I have to live with.

1148
00:53:16,068 --> 00:53:18,987
[dramatic music]

1149
00:53:19,071 --> 00:53:20,406
♪ ♪

1150
00:53:20,447 --> 00:53:23,575
- It's only recently
that I took Hoyt's call,

1151
00:53:23,659 --> 00:53:25,619
and I got to tell you...
[chuckles]

1152
00:53:25,661 --> 00:53:28,580
I poured myself
a glass of Irish whiskey,

1153
00:53:28,664 --> 00:53:30,791
and I drank it down,

1154
00:53:30,874 --> 00:53:33,794
and then I took that call.

1155
00:53:33,877 --> 00:53:35,671
And it was a good talk.

1156
00:53:35,754 --> 00:53:38,966
And he did express remorse.

1157
00:53:39,007 --> 00:53:43,137
And I told him, the things
I've been victimized on

1158
00:53:43,178 --> 00:53:46,974
or someone hurt me--
those don't define me.

1159
00:53:47,057 --> 00:53:49,226
Getting involved in a cult

1160
00:53:49,309 --> 00:53:51,645
and being one
of Freddy's victims

1161
00:53:51,687 --> 00:53:53,313
is definitely not my story.

1162
00:53:53,397 --> 00:54:00,446
♪ ♪

1163
00:54:03,031 --> 00:54:05,075
I had this thing happen,

1164
00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:08,245
but I have learned
to make better mistakes

1165
00:54:08,328 --> 00:54:12,916
and keep risking and not
stopping challenging myself.

1166
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,502
♪ ♪

1167
00:54:15,586 --> 00:54:18,046
And I realized
from talking to Hoyt

1168
00:54:18,130 --> 00:54:21,508
how very sensitive he is.

1169
00:54:21,550 --> 00:54:25,220
And I can appreciate what
he's doing--educating people.

1170
00:54:25,304 --> 00:54:29,183
- Unfortunately, mind control
works on everybody

1171
00:54:29,224 --> 00:54:30,517
once you're receptive.

1172
00:54:30,601 --> 00:54:34,062
You just won't even see
it coming.

1173
00:54:34,146 --> 00:54:37,691
- The idea of the cult
is not a new one.

1174
00:54:37,733 --> 00:54:41,403
Political systems
use these tools.

1175
00:54:41,487 --> 00:54:44,698
Our religious systems
use these tools.

1176
00:54:44,740 --> 00:54:47,951
Our most primal fears
are being used.

1177
00:54:48,035 --> 00:54:49,536
[indistinct chatter]

1178
00:54:49,578 --> 00:54:51,371
- When I was
in Eternal Values,

1179
00:54:51,413 --> 00:54:53,373
we'd look at other groups

1180
00:54:53,457 --> 00:54:55,042
and say, well,
that's definitely a cult.

1181
00:54:55,125 --> 00:54:57,127
- They're lying.
They're lying.

1182
00:54:57,211 --> 00:54:59,671
But we never looked
at ourselves at all that way.

1183
00:54:59,713 --> 00:55:02,716
- I have with me
four eternal cohorts of mine,

1184
00:55:02,758 --> 00:55:05,385
all whom I've known
since they were 16 years old--

1185
00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:09,348
John Hoyt, who just graduated
from Princeton University.

1186
00:55:09,389 --> 00:55:12,893
- It's not easy to go back
to the first time

1187
00:55:12,976 --> 00:55:15,854
when you met either Freddy
or someone from the group

1188
00:55:15,938 --> 00:55:18,899
and just really kind of say,
yeah, I got taken,

1189
00:55:18,982 --> 00:55:21,902
and start to reframe
your life.

1190
00:55:21,944 --> 00:55:23,904
I mean, this was a guy
from Brooklyn

1191
00:55:23,987 --> 00:55:27,449
who lied about who he was,
lied about what he did.

1192
00:55:27,533 --> 00:55:30,244
He said he was an orphan,

1193
00:55:30,327 --> 00:55:34,248
but his mother was alive
until recently--I think 2023.

1194
00:55:47,803 --> 00:55:49,596
[dial tone drones]

1195
00:55:49,638 --> 00:55:51,765
- When people meet John,

1196
00:55:51,807 --> 00:55:56,061
the first thing that
he says is, I was in a cult.

1197
00:55:56,144 --> 00:55:57,604
I know what I felt

1198
00:55:57,688 --> 00:56:00,107
and what I learned
from the Eternal Values.

1199
00:56:00,190 --> 00:56:02,192
And it wasn't
my stopping point.

1200
00:56:02,276 --> 00:56:05,946
It was just my starting point
for my spiritual journey.

1201
00:56:05,988 --> 00:56:08,365
So I want to defend

1202
00:56:08,448 --> 00:56:10,951
who I thought Frederick was
and is

1203
00:56:11,034 --> 00:56:13,662
and what I've learned
from Frederick.

1204
00:56:15,831 --> 00:56:18,292
- When I think
about the Eternal Values,

1205
00:56:18,333 --> 00:56:19,960
if I'm being honest,

1206
00:56:20,043 --> 00:56:22,170
I don't even know
that I really call this

1207
00:56:22,254 --> 00:56:24,131
a cult myself yet.

1208
00:56:24,172 --> 00:56:26,508
- You have to remember,

1209
00:56:26,592 --> 00:56:28,468
Frederick was my friend.

1210
00:56:28,510 --> 00:56:31,430
When I was separated from him
and was left to my own devices,

1211
00:56:31,513 --> 00:56:34,182
I actually did
about 100 times worse.

1212
00:56:34,266 --> 00:56:37,185
But maybe if I had taken
the teaching

1213
00:56:37,269 --> 00:56:39,187
to its conclusion,

1214
00:56:39,271 --> 00:56:41,982
I would have accomplished
a great deal.

1215
00:56:42,065 --> 00:56:44,818
- Who is it
that is experiencing

1216
00:56:44,860 --> 00:56:47,321
this television program
this moment?

1217
00:56:47,404 --> 00:56:50,741
- Frederick would be thrilled
about this right now,

1218
00:56:50,824 --> 00:56:52,951
thrilled, because he
wouldn't see anything

1219
00:56:52,993 --> 00:56:54,453
particularly wrong with it.

1220
00:56:54,494 --> 00:56:57,831
He would love the fact
that he kept his place in line,

1221
00:56:57,873 --> 00:57:00,626
that people who
are still talking about him

1222
00:57:00,709 --> 00:57:02,252
this many years later.

1223
00:57:02,336 --> 00:57:04,379
[chuckles]

1224
00:57:19,269 --> 00:57:21,021
This is the supreme message

1225
00:57:21,104 --> 00:57:23,357
the Eternal Values
has for all of you.

1226
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,359
If you can't love each
other unconditionally,

1227
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:26,860
you're all frauds.

1228
00:57:26,902 --> 00:57:28,737
In the Eternal Values,
we are Jewish, Muslim,

1229
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:30,322
Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu.

1230
00:57:30,405 --> 00:57:32,032
We all love each other
and work together.

1231
00:57:32,074 --> 00:57:34,493
We're trying to tell you
that you, too, can do it.

1232
00:57:39,498 --> 00:57:41,083
- And that's what we believed.

1233
00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:45,087
Freddy, I think,
was very damaged.

1234
00:57:45,170 --> 00:57:47,381
And I don't think
he understood love.

1235
00:57:47,422 --> 00:57:50,384
And because of that,
there was a lot of carnage

1236
00:57:50,425 --> 00:57:51,969
that occurred around him.

1237
00:57:53,887 --> 00:57:56,890
But I can't go back and say,

1238
00:57:56,932 --> 00:57:59,309
oh, well, you know,
they brainwashed me,

1239
00:57:59,393 --> 00:58:02,145
and, therefore,
there's no fault on my end.

1240
00:58:02,229 --> 00:58:04,523
I'm still accountable
for everything I said,

1241
00:58:04,606 --> 00:58:05,857
everything I did,

1242
00:58:05,941 --> 00:58:08,568
the abuses I either partook in

1243
00:58:08,610 --> 00:58:11,613
or stood by and did nothing
as they happened.

1244
00:58:13,407 --> 00:58:15,325
You know, you carry
a lot of shame,

1245
00:58:15,409 --> 00:58:17,577
and you carry a lot
of embarrassment.

1246
00:58:17,619 --> 00:58:22,249
And I've learned
that the antidote to shame

1247
00:58:22,332 --> 00:58:23,917
is...

1248
00:58:23,959 --> 00:58:26,378
vulnerability.

1249
00:58:26,461 --> 00:58:29,923
And the way you, you know,
express that vulnerability

1250
00:58:29,965 --> 00:58:31,299
is to tell your story,

1251
00:58:31,383 --> 00:58:35,303
you know,
and just own it and...

1252
00:58:35,387 --> 00:58:40,100
Warts and all,
just tell the story.

1253
00:58:40,183 --> 00:58:43,103
[John Lennon's "Mind Games"]

1254
00:58:43,186 --> 00:58:50,235
♪ ♪

1255
00:58:53,697 --> 00:58:57,743
- [singing along] ♪ We're
playing those mind games ♪

1256
00:58:57,826 --> 00:59:01,121
♪ Together ♪

1257
00:59:01,204 --> 00:59:04,750
♪ Pushing the barrier ♪

1258
00:59:04,833 --> 00:59:07,711
♪ Planting seeds ♪

1259
00:59:07,794 --> 00:59:12,382
♪ Playing the mind games ♪

1260
00:59:12,466 --> 00:59:15,761
♪ Forever ♪

1261
00:59:15,844 --> 00:59:19,139
♪ Some kind of druid dude ♪

1262
00:59:19,222 --> 00:59:23,143
♪ Lifting the veil ♪

1263
00:59:23,226 --> 00:59:27,522
- ♪ Doing the mind ♪

1264
00:59:27,606 --> 00:59:30,358
♪ Guerilla ♪

1265
00:59:30,442 --> 00:59:34,154
♪ Some call it magic ♪

1266
00:59:34,237 --> 00:59:38,867
♪ The search for the grail ♪

1267
00:59:38,950 --> 00:59:41,995
♪ Love is ♪

1268
00:59:42,037 --> 00:59:45,957
♪ The answer ♪

1269
00:59:46,041 --> 00:59:49,169
♪ And you know that ♪

1270
00:59:49,252 --> 00:59:50,796
♪ For sure ♪

1271
00:59:50,837 --> 00:59:53,381
♪ ♪

1272
00:59:53,465 --> 00:59:57,803
♪ Love is... ♪

1273
00:59:57,886 --> 01:00:00,847
[bright tone]