1 00:00:13,931 --> 00:00:15,849 21 minutes after the hour of 8:00. 2 00:00:15,933 --> 00:00:17,100 This is the Sunday night 3 00:00:17,184 --> 00:00:18,644 Hall of Fame Special Edition tonight, 4 00:00:18,727 --> 00:00:21,647 as we play some of the greatest hits of Christmas. 5 00:00:25,526 --> 00:00:28,529 I've got a whole thing here with our Christmas cards. 6 00:00:28,612 --> 00:00:32,073 My mother took great pride in our Christmas cards. 7 00:00:32,156 --> 00:00:35,285 At Christmas, you got to have heart, you know? 8 00:00:35,369 --> 00:00:37,329 Every year there'd be a photo, 9 00:00:37,412 --> 00:00:40,207 and then there would also be a newsletter. 10 00:00:40,290 --> 00:00:42,918 This is 1974. 11 00:00:43,001 --> 00:00:45,254 My mother writes, "John, age 12, 7th grade. 12 00:00:45,337 --> 00:00:47,673 "This fall he has thrown several boy-girl parties 13 00:00:47,756 --> 00:00:50,050 "in our game room, which have been quite successful. 14 00:00:50,133 --> 00:00:53,971 He's very careful how he combs his hair and dresses." 15 00:00:55,347 --> 00:00:58,475 Yep, that was me. 16 00:00:58,559 --> 00:01:01,728 But this was Christmas 1987. 17 00:01:01,812 --> 00:01:05,399 And that's the last time I went home for Christmas. 18 00:01:05,482 --> 00:01:07,484 My mother writes, "John lives in Manhattan 19 00:01:07,568 --> 00:01:09,486 "but seems to spend most of his time in Europe. 20 00:01:09,570 --> 00:01:11,488 "We see him in pictures, but we're saddened 21 00:01:11,572 --> 00:01:14,241 to report he has broken off all family contacts." 22 00:01:14,324 --> 00:01:17,536 The next year-- "Still no word from John, 23 00:01:17,619 --> 00:01:19,705 "except what we see in the magazines, 24 00:01:19,788 --> 00:01:23,208 but we keep loving and praying for him." 25 00:01:23,292 --> 00:01:26,128 And this one--it was a card that I had never seen, 26 00:01:26,211 --> 00:01:27,920 because at that point, 27 00:01:28,005 --> 00:01:30,757 I had broken off contact with my family. 28 00:01:30,841 --> 00:01:32,509 You know, they got returned. 29 00:01:32,593 --> 00:01:37,389 And this one--it says, "Because I'm your mother." 30 00:01:37,472 --> 00:01:39,348 "You're going to be 28 years old. 31 00:01:39,433 --> 00:01:41,310 "We have hardly seen you for years. 32 00:01:41,393 --> 00:01:43,353 "We may not have been the perfect parents, 33 00:01:43,437 --> 00:01:45,564 "but at least you know we loved you. 34 00:01:45,646 --> 00:01:48,859 And we don't want to die without ever seeing you again." 35 00:02:03,415 --> 00:02:04,958 In 1990, 36 00:02:05,042 --> 00:02:07,669 when the "Vanity Fair" article came out, 37 00:02:07,753 --> 00:02:12,549 we found this exit counselor to... 38 00:02:12,633 --> 00:02:16,428 help set up an intervention. 39 00:02:16,511 --> 00:02:18,847 My older brother, Rory, had contacted me 40 00:02:18,930 --> 00:02:20,766 and said, hey, let's have a boys' weekend 41 00:02:20,849 --> 00:02:22,601 up in Newport, Rhode Island. 42 00:02:22,684 --> 00:02:24,561 It was definitely not something 43 00:02:24,645 --> 00:02:26,313 I would have normally done, 44 00:02:26,396 --> 00:02:28,774 but, you know, Rory--he had always kind of been 45 00:02:28,857 --> 00:02:32,152 in my corner, so I trusted him. 46 00:02:35,739 --> 00:02:38,158 The exit counselors had explained 47 00:02:38,241 --> 00:02:41,578 that people attempt the intervention, 48 00:02:41,662 --> 00:02:44,915 and it drives the person away. 49 00:02:44,998 --> 00:02:48,502 You got one shot to make it work. 50 00:02:48,585 --> 00:02:50,629 Spent the first day sailing-- 51 00:02:50,712 --> 00:02:53,048 all these sort of things we would do on Nantucket. 52 00:02:53,131 --> 00:02:55,966 But the next day, we're at breakfast, 53 00:02:56,051 --> 00:02:57,928 we're having a good old time, 54 00:02:58,011 --> 00:03:01,598 and all of a sudden, these three guys... 55 00:03:01,682 --> 00:03:02,974 come in. 56 00:03:03,058 --> 00:03:04,601 I just remember feeling like, 57 00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:06,812 okay, what the fuck's going on? 58 00:03:06,895 --> 00:03:10,232 We said to John, hey, we're concerned about you, 59 00:03:10,315 --> 00:03:14,778 and these counselors are here to help you. 60 00:03:14,861 --> 00:03:16,613 All of a sudden, my peripheral vision left, 61 00:03:16,697 --> 00:03:19,116 and everything just got very, very small. 62 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:22,035 I just felt like a trapped animal. 63 00:03:22,119 --> 00:03:24,413 But we went back to the hotel room and talked, 64 00:03:24,496 --> 00:03:26,415 I think, for, like, 12 hours. 65 00:03:26,498 --> 00:03:29,251 And we thought we made pretty good progress. 66 00:03:29,334 --> 00:03:32,045 So everyone went to bed, and we were gonna continue 67 00:03:32,129 --> 00:03:35,006 the discussion the next morning. 68 00:03:35,090 --> 00:03:39,469 Then we got woken up at, like, 4:00. 69 00:03:39,553 --> 00:03:41,596 John's gone. 70 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,850 We took off to the airport, and sure enough, 71 00:03:44,933 --> 00:03:48,603 over in the corner, hidden, John was there, 72 00:03:48,687 --> 00:03:50,480 waiting for this flight. 73 00:03:50,564 --> 00:03:53,483 So now we go into it, you know, with a full press. 74 00:03:53,567 --> 00:03:56,820 This is your life. This is your family. 75 00:03:56,903 --> 00:04:00,532 You need to leave that other group alone. 76 00:04:00,615 --> 00:04:02,617 And then they call for the plane. 77 00:04:02,701 --> 00:04:07,038 You know, again, we tell him, hey, don't go, don't go. 78 00:04:07,122 --> 00:04:10,959 But the sense of betrayal was so intense, 79 00:04:11,042 --> 00:04:13,086 I just turned and left. 80 00:04:15,464 --> 00:04:19,091 And they looked at each other, and they said, you know... 81 00:04:19,176 --> 00:04:22,888 I don't think we're ever gonna see him again. 82 00:04:22,971 --> 00:04:25,307 That's not the way you hope an intervention goes. 83 00:04:37,736 --> 00:04:40,280 WBAB with Frederick Von Mierers, 84 00:04:40,363 --> 00:04:43,909 and let us break now briefly, give Frederick's voice a rest. 85 00:04:43,992 --> 00:04:45,118 It's a little bit low 86 00:04:45,202 --> 00:04:47,120 because I've had too much work to do. 87 00:04:47,204 --> 00:04:49,706 Ah, don't say a word. You've got to rest your voice. 88 00:04:49,790 --> 00:04:51,707 - I've been talking to you. - I know. 89 00:04:51,792 --> 00:04:55,128 No one ever knew the full story, 90 00:04:55,212 --> 00:04:58,799 but Frederick had gotten weak, and he started to lose weight. 91 00:05:00,509 --> 00:05:03,136 We were thinking, he's just got this inner-ear infection, 92 00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:06,139 this weakness that was in there returning. 93 00:05:06,223 --> 00:05:07,599 He had the night sweats. 94 00:05:07,682 --> 00:05:09,559 He's not doing well, losing weight. 95 00:05:09,643 --> 00:05:12,521 I'm thinking something's wrong. 96 00:05:12,604 --> 00:05:15,440 I knew Frederick had many partners. 97 00:05:15,524 --> 00:05:18,944 That was his prerogative. 98 00:05:19,027 --> 00:05:22,447 But I said, I think we should get HIV tests. 99 00:05:24,866 --> 00:05:27,536 I tested negative... 100 00:05:27,619 --> 00:05:29,955 but he wouldn't acknowledge 101 00:05:30,038 --> 00:05:32,957 that he tested positive. 102 00:05:33,041 --> 00:05:36,169 I was absolutely terrified. 103 00:05:36,253 --> 00:05:38,755 But do I really need to tell the world? 104 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,967 No. No, I wouldn't. I didn't. 105 00:05:42,050 --> 00:05:44,636 We kept the whole thing secret. 106 00:05:46,638 --> 00:05:48,974 But Frederick was still wanting to have 107 00:05:49,057 --> 00:05:51,476 casual sexual encounters. 108 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,020 Wait, did you believe he was having sex with people 109 00:05:54,104 --> 00:05:55,647 while he was HIV-positive? 110 00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:57,983 I think so, but I wasn't really seeing it directly. 111 00:05:58,066 --> 00:06:02,696 And at the same time, I'm thinking, this is insane. 112 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:04,990 I was afraid, 113 00:06:05,073 --> 00:06:07,993 but I decided it was absolutely necessary 114 00:06:08,076 --> 00:06:10,579 to confront him. 115 00:06:10,662 --> 00:06:14,165 So I said to him, Frederick, I'll stay with you 116 00:06:14,249 --> 00:06:15,834 all the way through this. 117 00:06:15,917 --> 00:06:18,211 But, you know, you got to let me know, 118 00:06:18,295 --> 00:06:21,631 are you really thinking clearly? 119 00:06:21,715 --> 00:06:24,926 But that really pissed him off. 120 00:06:25,010 --> 00:06:28,638 And then he cracked me over the head with a plate. 121 00:06:30,891 --> 00:06:35,103 He's hitting me in the face, and I'm getting a bloody nose. 122 00:06:35,186 --> 00:06:38,231 And he's like, you stupid fucking cunt, 123 00:06:38,315 --> 00:06:40,317 get the fuck out of here. 124 00:06:42,193 --> 00:06:46,865 I'm thinking, perhaps he's tricking me. 125 00:06:46,948 --> 00:06:49,034 I promised I'd stay with him to the end. 126 00:06:49,117 --> 00:06:50,409 Paul Hinton. 127 00:06:50,493 --> 00:06:53,371 I'm the one person who knows Frederick's really not well. 128 00:06:53,455 --> 00:06:55,290 Shouldn't I help him? 129 00:06:57,207 --> 00:07:00,879 But there was a certain look in his eyes. 130 00:07:00,962 --> 00:07:04,257 It wasn't human, and it wasn't Frederick. 131 00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:13,058 I'm surprised Paul didn't break his skull. 132 00:07:13,141 --> 00:07:16,019 Paul went to the local precinct, 133 00:07:16,102 --> 00:07:18,271 but he didn't want to push the matter any more 134 00:07:18,355 --> 00:07:20,273 because he was afraid 135 00:07:20,357 --> 00:07:24,152 that it would go poorly for him. 136 00:07:24,235 --> 00:07:26,071 My fear was that Frederick 137 00:07:26,154 --> 00:07:29,908 would then turn my decision to leave against me. 138 00:07:29,991 --> 00:07:33,703 What if Frederick could blame all of us for things? 139 00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:36,998 Hmm, after all, I've done X, Y, and Z-- 140 00:07:37,082 --> 00:07:39,292 running errands and cash 141 00:07:39,376 --> 00:07:41,461 and doing the gemstones off the books, 142 00:07:41,544 --> 00:07:43,630 3/4 of a million in sales. 143 00:07:43,713 --> 00:07:45,090 You know, well, let's spit it out-- 144 00:07:45,173 --> 00:07:47,467 half a pound of psilocybin mushrooms in the freezer 145 00:07:47,550 --> 00:07:49,344 and different things. 146 00:07:49,427 --> 00:07:52,389 So, if anybody does snitch or you get into trouble, 147 00:07:52,472 --> 00:07:55,767 you're screwed. 148 00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:58,520 But when I left, I thought to myself, 149 00:07:58,603 --> 00:08:00,855 I'll be quiet and silent. 150 00:08:00,939 --> 00:08:03,441 It was very difficult for me to leave, 151 00:08:03,525 --> 00:08:07,320 because I second-guessed myself for the rest of my life. 152 00:08:10,740 --> 00:08:13,368 Well, I ended up joining the military. 153 00:08:13,451 --> 00:08:15,286 I joined the U.S. Army. 154 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:19,124 25 years old, and I had to, you know, regroup. 155 00:08:22,919 --> 00:08:25,005 Around that time, 156 00:08:25,088 --> 00:08:27,716 Frederick's body started deteriorating pretty quickly. 157 00:08:27,799 --> 00:08:30,885 His immune system couldn't handle whatever was going on. 158 00:08:30,969 --> 00:08:32,971 As Frederick started to get sicker and sicker, 159 00:08:33,054 --> 00:08:35,640 I thought, oh, he just needs to get down to North Carolina. 160 00:08:35,724 --> 00:08:38,934 He'll bounce back, and everything will be fine. 161 00:08:39,019 --> 00:08:40,729 I personally drove Frederick 162 00:08:40,812 --> 00:08:44,899 from our apartment in New York City to Lake Lure. 163 00:08:44,983 --> 00:08:47,152 He was in bed 24-7, 164 00:08:47,235 --> 00:08:49,738 to the point where we had to roll him over 165 00:08:49,821 --> 00:08:53,742 'cause he started getting bed sores. 166 00:08:53,825 --> 00:08:55,660 We didn't know he was dying of AIDS. 167 00:08:55,744 --> 00:08:57,996 We thought it was this staph infection. 168 00:08:58,079 --> 00:09:00,248 He didn't tell any of us. 169 00:09:00,331 --> 00:09:01,750 And, ultimately, 170 00:09:01,833 --> 00:09:04,377 as Frederick's health continued to wane, 171 00:09:04,461 --> 00:09:08,173 the primary caretaker was a guy who was in Eternal Values-- 172 00:09:08,256 --> 00:09:10,300 this guy, David Seaman. 173 00:09:10,383 --> 00:09:14,471 With us today, we have Dr. David Seaman. 174 00:09:14,554 --> 00:09:16,556 The idea behind chiropractic is to balance 175 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:18,183 the body's structural system. 176 00:09:18,266 --> 00:09:20,393 When David got involved with the group, 177 00:09:20,477 --> 00:09:22,187 he was a chiropractor. 178 00:09:22,270 --> 00:09:25,356 Frederick was starting to have certain physical issues, 179 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,400 and David would use his chiropractic 180 00:09:27,484 --> 00:09:28,818 and, you know, treat him. 181 00:09:28,902 --> 00:09:31,237 And then he kind of became the in-house chiropractor, 182 00:09:31,321 --> 00:09:34,199 where we'd all get adjustments here and there from him. 183 00:09:34,282 --> 00:09:37,827 But I never had a really good feeling about him. 184 00:09:37,911 --> 00:09:40,330 Frederick would say, in a past life, 185 00:09:40,413 --> 00:09:43,040 David Seaman chopped Frederick's head off 186 00:09:43,124 --> 00:09:45,418 and that the reason why David was here 187 00:09:45,502 --> 00:09:46,836 was to work out the karma. 188 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,130 Did you come here from another planet as well 189 00:09:49,214 --> 00:09:50,799 or another solar system? 190 00:09:50,882 --> 00:09:52,217 - I did. - You did. 191 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:54,469 But the point is, that's not important. 192 00:09:54,552 --> 00:09:56,387 As Frederick got sicker, 193 00:09:56,471 --> 00:09:58,389 there's now a power struggle. 194 00:09:58,473 --> 00:10:00,642 David was the one trying to grab power, 195 00:10:00,725 --> 00:10:03,144 and there's another guy named Fritz. 196 00:10:03,228 --> 00:10:06,397 Fritz was a senior executive 197 00:10:06,481 --> 00:10:11,111 for German television in their New York office. 198 00:10:11,194 --> 00:10:13,905 He and Freddy were the same age. 199 00:10:13,988 --> 00:10:16,616 And he was second in command. 200 00:10:16,699 --> 00:10:19,244 He'd hold court, and he would act 201 00:10:19,327 --> 00:10:23,623 as the de facto vice president, so to speak. 202 00:10:23,706 --> 00:10:26,000 And... 203 00:10:26,084 --> 00:10:28,044 yeah. 204 00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:32,966 - Time-out? - Yeah, I need time. 205 00:10:33,049 --> 00:10:35,844 - Okay. - Yeah, fuck. 206 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,764 I was in Reno, Nevada, 207 00:10:39,848 --> 00:10:43,226 doing a job for "GQ" when I got the phone call. 208 00:10:43,309 --> 00:10:46,396 Frederick was on his last legs, 209 00:10:46,479 --> 00:10:49,440 and I needed to come back and basically see him 210 00:10:49,524 --> 00:10:51,818 and say my goodbye. 211 00:10:51,901 --> 00:10:54,487 I was in complete denial about the fact 212 00:10:54,571 --> 00:10:56,656 that he was on death's door. 213 00:10:58,908 --> 00:11:01,077 Fritz and David started taking over 214 00:11:01,161 --> 00:11:03,204 and exerting their control. 215 00:11:03,288 --> 00:11:06,332 I mean, Frederick was a living skeleton at that point. 216 00:11:08,585 --> 00:11:11,754 It was not easy to even look at Frederick. 217 00:11:11,838 --> 00:11:14,674 I was given this little vial of-- 218 00:11:14,757 --> 00:11:15,884 They said it was water-- 219 00:11:15,967 --> 00:11:17,677 you know, with a little dropper. 220 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,679 And they said, you know, he's struggling. 221 00:11:19,762 --> 00:11:22,807 You know, just give him drops when you think it's necessary. 222 00:11:22,891 --> 00:11:24,392 Keep him hydrated. 223 00:11:24,475 --> 00:11:26,978 But later, David Seaman divulged to us 224 00:11:27,061 --> 00:11:29,439 that what we were all giving him 225 00:11:29,522 --> 00:11:32,108 was actually some form of morphine or some sort of thing 226 00:11:32,192 --> 00:11:34,360 to try to accelerate his death. 227 00:11:34,444 --> 00:11:38,156 But none of us were told that at the time. 228 00:11:38,239 --> 00:11:40,658 It was, like, poison in those bottles 229 00:11:40,742 --> 00:11:44,120 and that we were actually giving him poison... 230 00:11:44,204 --> 00:11:47,165 while we were supposedly just wetting his lips. 231 00:11:49,083 --> 00:11:51,419 And then we were sitting in the kitchen. 232 00:11:51,502 --> 00:11:53,546 Fritz walks in 233 00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:57,926 with a very, very somber face and just says, you know... 234 00:11:58,009 --> 00:11:59,719 Frederick's passed. 235 00:11:59,802 --> 00:12:01,763 I really just went numb. 236 00:12:01,846 --> 00:12:05,350 I didn't know what to think. I couldn't believe it. 237 00:12:05,433 --> 00:12:08,144 In his own ephemeris, 238 00:12:08,228 --> 00:12:10,271 Frederick marked the dates 239 00:12:10,355 --> 00:12:15,151 between January 28th and February 9th of 1990 240 00:12:15,235 --> 00:12:18,738 and wrote "end of life." 241 00:12:18,821 --> 00:12:20,573 And he died on February 4th, 242 00:12:20,657 --> 00:12:22,825 so it was right in that window. 243 00:12:22,909 --> 00:12:24,953 I mean, make of it what you will. 244 00:12:27,163 --> 00:12:30,959 Realize that this Earth is only a way station. 245 00:12:31,042 --> 00:12:34,796 As you die, you slowly shift into the next octave 246 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:37,924 of vibration. 247 00:12:38,007 --> 00:12:39,634 The places to which you go-- 248 00:12:39,717 --> 00:12:43,596 and this is very important-- are determined by your life. 249 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,099 This is why many people, before they die, 250 00:12:46,182 --> 00:12:49,602 see their entire life flash before their eyes. 251 00:12:55,692 --> 00:12:57,986 Do you remember the last interaction you had 252 00:12:58,069 --> 00:13:00,822 with Frederick when he was lucid? 253 00:13:00,905 --> 00:13:03,074 I told him I loved him. 254 00:13:06,286 --> 00:13:09,414 That's the last thing I remember. 255 00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,803 Do you remember his reaction? 256 00:13:23,886 --> 00:13:25,305 He smiled. 257 00:13:25,388 --> 00:13:27,640 He wasn't talking at that point. 258 00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:35,023 We found out later that when Frederick passed away, 259 00:13:35,106 --> 00:13:37,025 David Seaman and Fritz Diekmann 260 00:13:37,108 --> 00:13:38,443 were in the room, 261 00:13:38,526 --> 00:13:41,654 and David said Fritz put the pillow over Frederick's head 262 00:13:41,738 --> 00:13:44,032 just to end his life. 263 00:13:52,457 --> 00:13:56,919 And when we confronted Fritz, he admitted that. 264 00:13:57,003 --> 00:13:59,047 But there was discussion amongst us 265 00:13:59,130 --> 00:14:02,008 that it was kind of a mercy killing. 266 00:14:02,091 --> 00:14:04,719 Fritz--you could see, it was not something 267 00:14:04,802 --> 00:14:06,095 that he wanted to do. 268 00:14:06,179 --> 00:14:08,264 It wasn't something that was easy for him to do. 269 00:14:08,348 --> 00:14:10,808 And I actually felt some compassion for him. 270 00:14:10,892 --> 00:14:12,518 Well, ladies and gentlemen, 271 00:14:12,602 --> 00:14:15,688 that's a great deal to think about--ascended masters, 272 00:14:15,772 --> 00:14:18,358 space people, and resurrected beings. 273 00:14:18,441 --> 00:14:22,612 Good night with another platform of the Eternal Values. 274 00:14:25,156 --> 00:14:27,241 Within hours of Frederick passing, 275 00:14:27,325 --> 00:14:29,702 Fritz would come over to people 276 00:14:29,786 --> 00:14:31,871 who were huddled up in twos or threes, 277 00:14:31,954 --> 00:14:35,875 and we were trying to laugh and remember our good times 278 00:14:35,958 --> 00:14:37,085 with Frederick. 279 00:14:37,168 --> 00:14:39,670 He would say, don't do that. 280 00:14:39,754 --> 00:14:42,215 Frederick died. We've got to move on. 281 00:14:42,298 --> 00:14:44,967 And he was just very abrupt and cold about it all. 282 00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:46,886 Like, Frederick's out of here, 283 00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:49,097 and now that whole life is over. 284 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,815 Initially, David tried to get Frederick cremated, 285 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:01,317 but before that could happen, 286 00:15:01,401 --> 00:15:03,945 we had to get an autopsy done. 287 00:15:04,028 --> 00:15:05,655 And that's when, supposedly, 288 00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:10,493 it was diagnosed that he had the AIDS virus. 289 00:15:10,576 --> 00:15:13,329 Once it went public that he had AIDS, 290 00:15:13,413 --> 00:15:15,915 the mercy killing certainly wasn't something 291 00:15:15,998 --> 00:15:17,542 that we were gonna talk about. 292 00:15:17,625 --> 00:15:20,545 So it kind of became one of these secrets within the group 293 00:15:20,628 --> 00:15:25,174 that we all knew but certainly you wouldn't go public with. 294 00:15:30,346 --> 00:15:32,932 After that, we had to completely reconfigure 295 00:15:33,015 --> 00:15:34,350 Eternal Values. 296 00:15:34,434 --> 00:15:37,687 And that was the point when Fritz took over. 297 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:41,774 But he didn't have any of the savvy or personality 298 00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:42,984 that Freddy had. 299 00:15:43,067 --> 00:15:45,528 And within six months, the rest of our group-- 300 00:15:45,611 --> 00:15:47,572 we kind of started to push back on him, 301 00:15:47,655 --> 00:15:49,949 and we had this kind of a mutiny. 302 00:15:52,034 --> 00:15:54,245 We went back to New York City, 303 00:15:54,328 --> 00:15:56,164 and they locked him in his apartment, 304 00:15:56,247 --> 00:15:57,957 and they wouldn't let him leave. 305 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,169 This was, like, for two or three days. 306 00:16:01,252 --> 00:16:03,838 They told him that he had to leave, 307 00:16:03,921 --> 00:16:07,258 and they got him to sign over his ownership 308 00:16:07,341 --> 00:16:10,386 of the Eternal Values assets. 309 00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:12,805 And he left. 310 00:16:12,889 --> 00:16:15,183 And through that fracture, the group kind of split. 311 00:16:15,266 --> 00:16:16,976 Some people aligned with Fritz, 312 00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:18,978 and some people aligned with our side. 313 00:16:19,061 --> 00:16:20,980 I temporarily was in a leadership position 314 00:16:21,063 --> 00:16:22,982 for about a month or two, 315 00:16:23,065 --> 00:16:25,401 where we were like, okay, what do we do next? 316 00:16:25,485 --> 00:16:27,987 But to really maintain... 317 00:16:28,070 --> 00:16:30,156 a leadership position at Eternal Values, 318 00:16:30,239 --> 00:16:32,617 you had to be willing to put other people down, 319 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:33,826 confront them. 320 00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:38,414 And that is not, fortunately, the way I'm wired. 321 00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:41,292 And so I was quickly demoted. 322 00:16:43,252 --> 00:16:45,004 At this point, what are you thinking about 323 00:16:45,087 --> 00:16:46,506 in terms of the group? 324 00:16:46,589 --> 00:16:48,633 I'm thinking, things are pretty fucked up. 325 00:16:48,716 --> 00:16:51,928 Was it recognizable from what it was before? 326 00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:53,930 Not to me. 327 00:16:56,098 --> 00:16:57,850 There were a couple individuals 328 00:16:57,934 --> 00:17:00,228 that I felt that had no interest 329 00:17:00,311 --> 00:17:02,772 in any spiritual growth at all 330 00:17:02,855 --> 00:17:07,151 but were there only for their self-gratification. 331 00:17:07,234 --> 00:17:10,154 Something inside of me, you know, said, this is wrong. 332 00:17:10,238 --> 00:17:11,989 You have to get out. 333 00:17:12,073 --> 00:17:15,326 But when I told them that I was leaving the group, 334 00:17:15,409 --> 00:17:17,244 they tied me to a chair 335 00:17:17,328 --> 00:17:21,249 and started grilling me for a day and a half. 336 00:17:21,332 --> 00:17:23,667 Frederick wouldn't want you to do this. 337 00:17:23,751 --> 00:17:26,045 You're not following your path. 338 00:17:26,127 --> 00:17:28,339 Were you awake the whole time? 339 00:17:28,422 --> 00:17:31,801 I don't remember ever going to sleep. 340 00:17:31,884 --> 00:17:34,053 But they thought I might be leaving 341 00:17:34,136 --> 00:17:36,889 with Frederick's gems and things like that. 342 00:17:36,973 --> 00:17:40,059 So, before I walked out the door, 343 00:17:40,142 --> 00:17:41,894 they stripped me down to my underwear 344 00:17:41,978 --> 00:17:43,980 and let me walk out the door in my underwear 345 00:17:44,063 --> 00:17:45,481 with a bag of clothes. 346 00:17:45,565 --> 00:17:47,900 So that's how I left the group. 347 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,539 At that time, the district attorney's office 348 00:18:01,622 --> 00:18:04,083 was investigating and pursuing this, 349 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:05,626 to bring it to court. 350 00:18:05,710 --> 00:18:07,295 Frederick was in the middle 351 00:18:07,378 --> 00:18:09,922 of a multimillion-dollar gem ring. 352 00:18:10,006 --> 00:18:14,760 But I was told that although there was a money trail, 353 00:18:14,844 --> 00:18:17,305 because Frederick had passed away, 354 00:18:17,388 --> 00:18:19,932 the case that they thought they could bring to court 355 00:18:20,016 --> 00:18:23,311 was no longer sufficient, and they dropped the case. 356 00:18:25,813 --> 00:18:28,316 But once Frederick died, I really thought 357 00:18:28,399 --> 00:18:31,944 that the group would lose its momentum. 358 00:18:32,028 --> 00:18:35,281 That would be the end of it. 359 00:18:35,364 --> 00:18:37,950 So it was very surprising to me 360 00:18:38,034 --> 00:18:40,786 that it continued so much longer. 361 00:18:56,636 --> 00:18:57,261 Walk in. 362 00:18:57,345 --> 00:18:59,388 Walk back to that position, then start. 363 00:18:59,472 --> 00:19:00,973 After Frederick died, 364 00:19:01,057 --> 00:19:04,935 most of the crew moved down to North Carolina. 365 00:19:05,019 --> 00:19:07,146 You know, Freddy's gone. Fritz is gone. 366 00:19:07,229 --> 00:19:09,940 No one's got the space people on speed dial, 367 00:19:10,024 --> 00:19:12,360 so we've got to figure out how to survive 368 00:19:12,443 --> 00:19:15,655 the coming apocalypse, and how are we gonna do that? 369 00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:17,782 This is written on this stationery, 370 00:19:17,865 --> 00:19:21,077 where I was in London. 371 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,080 "Frederick told us repeatedly that we have an opportunity 372 00:19:24,163 --> 00:19:25,998 "to do something in our lifetime 373 00:19:26,082 --> 00:19:27,583 "that hasn't been done before. 374 00:19:27,667 --> 00:19:30,836 "Exactly what that is, none of us is sure, 375 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,589 "but we know that it is meant to be achieved by us 376 00:19:33,673 --> 00:19:36,008 "by staying together, working together, 377 00:19:36,092 --> 00:19:37,677 "and caring for each other. 378 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,804 "The only real means of survival in the future 379 00:19:39,887 --> 00:19:41,597 "will be through communal living, 380 00:19:41,681 --> 00:19:45,601 "and we all know how critical Freddy said that this would be. 381 00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:48,020 "Therefore, we are free individuals 382 00:19:48,104 --> 00:19:52,692 joined together in a common cause--self-realization." 383 00:19:52,775 --> 00:19:55,194 The North Carolina lifestyle was, 384 00:19:55,277 --> 00:19:57,405 everyone lived at the lake house. 385 00:19:57,488 --> 00:19:59,532 There were, like, six bedrooms. 386 00:19:59,615 --> 00:20:02,660 But each room had two twin beds. 387 00:20:02,743 --> 00:20:04,620 You had zero privacy, 388 00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:08,416 but we'd been doing such communal lifestyle for so long, 389 00:20:08,499 --> 00:20:10,960 it wasn't something that felt weird anymore. 390 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:13,921 That was just the way we lived. 391 00:20:14,004 --> 00:20:17,925 In North Carolina, it was much more grounded 392 00:20:18,008 --> 00:20:20,803 in the day-to-day life. 393 00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:24,557 But when Frederick was alive, for all the insanity, 394 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,809 there was always an undercurrent 395 00:20:26,892 --> 00:20:28,811 of a spiritual purpose. 396 00:20:28,894 --> 00:20:30,730 Love everything unconditionally, 397 00:20:30,813 --> 00:20:33,691 and you become part of God's higher cocktail party on Earth. 398 00:20:33,774 --> 00:20:36,235 Frederick always had that kind of ethereal, 399 00:20:36,318 --> 00:20:38,070 tonal music playing. 400 00:20:38,154 --> 00:20:41,741 You were transported out of New York City... 401 00:20:41,824 --> 00:20:45,077 Into this oasis. 402 00:20:45,161 --> 00:20:48,873 But I remember one morning in North Carolina, 403 00:20:48,956 --> 00:20:51,417 David got a boombox 404 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:55,463 and a copy of the song "Mandolin Rain." 405 00:20:58,257 --> 00:21:01,135 And he played that fucking song, I swear to you, 406 00:21:01,218 --> 00:21:04,638 for a week on repeat. 407 00:21:04,722 --> 00:21:08,851 And it was like, can you please turn that fucking song off? 408 00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:10,019 And then it would start-- 409 00:21:10,102 --> 00:21:13,272 Listen to the mandolin rain 410 00:21:20,529 --> 00:21:22,698 It was a different vibe. 411 00:21:22,782 --> 00:21:25,785 The core group had gotten down to ten people. 412 00:21:25,868 --> 00:21:28,037 There were no women around. 413 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:30,956 And so we're aware that we're different, 414 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,877 that we hold some very strange beliefs. 415 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,546 Dr. David Seaman. The life of a chiropractor-- 416 00:21:37,630 --> 00:21:40,925 We decided to not promote ourselves as Eternal Values, 417 00:21:41,008 --> 00:21:42,760 'cause that name had been quite soiled. 418 00:21:42,843 --> 00:21:47,389 And that kind of started a whole new era for us. 419 00:21:47,473 --> 00:21:48,933 And they were gonna start 420 00:21:49,016 --> 00:21:51,143 some kind of construction company 421 00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:55,397 to give a look of normalcy. 422 00:21:57,900 --> 00:22:01,403 At that time, I knew they had this office 423 00:22:01,487 --> 00:22:03,656 called the Lotus Group. 424 00:22:03,739 --> 00:22:06,867 They were very professional, very polite. 425 00:22:06,951 --> 00:22:09,954 And I'm like, well, people are saying y'all are aliens. 426 00:22:10,037 --> 00:22:12,540 You know, I mean, come on. 427 00:22:12,623 --> 00:22:16,961 There was certainly nothing scary or dangerous... 428 00:22:17,044 --> 00:22:18,546 to me. 429 00:22:21,715 --> 00:22:25,219 The locals called us bead-wearing, 430 00:22:25,302 --> 00:22:28,055 homosexual stargazers. 431 00:22:28,138 --> 00:22:31,392 So it was decided that it would be a good idea 432 00:22:31,475 --> 00:22:34,937 for some of the guys to have girlfriends. 433 00:22:35,020 --> 00:22:38,065 And one of the guys was with Meg. 434 00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:40,901 It was just this instant chemistry. 435 00:22:40,985 --> 00:22:43,821 I mean, it was just boom. 436 00:22:43,904 --> 00:22:46,949 I was so madly in love. 437 00:22:47,032 --> 00:22:50,035 You could have told me anything about them, 438 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,996 and I wouldn't have believed it, you know. 439 00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:53,747 I just wouldn't have believed it. 440 00:22:56,125 --> 00:22:58,836 I was in North Carolina. 441 00:22:58,919 --> 00:23:00,838 It was almost through happenstance 442 00:23:00,921 --> 00:23:04,216 that I ended up here, ended up getting a job here. 443 00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:07,219 And after about a year or so, 444 00:23:07,303 --> 00:23:10,222 I started to see these familiar faces. 445 00:23:10,306 --> 00:23:14,685 But I was consciously healing myself from this experience 446 00:23:14,768 --> 00:23:19,565 and was quite content not knowing anything about them. 447 00:23:19,648 --> 00:23:22,735 And then I found out a woman in the arts community 448 00:23:22,818 --> 00:23:26,322 got involved with the Lotus Group. 449 00:23:26,405 --> 00:23:29,450 Elissa came in my office one day, 450 00:23:29,533 --> 00:23:32,036 and she said, I know these guys from New York. 451 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:33,537 I've had dealings with them. 452 00:23:33,621 --> 00:23:35,706 Do you have any idea who these people are? 453 00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:38,375 They're not who they appear to be. 454 00:23:38,459 --> 00:23:40,002 You don't want anything to do with them. 455 00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:41,503 Just steer clear. 456 00:23:41,587 --> 00:23:45,257 I looked at her, and I said, just be careful. 457 00:23:45,341 --> 00:23:47,009 And she cut me off. 458 00:23:47,092 --> 00:23:48,844 She didn't want to hear that. 459 00:23:48,928 --> 00:23:52,181 She wanted to hear how wonderful it was. 460 00:23:52,264 --> 00:23:53,766 At the time, I just-- 461 00:23:53,849 --> 00:23:56,852 I guess, I just attributed it to small-town gossip 462 00:23:56,936 --> 00:23:59,063 and that sort of thing. 463 00:23:59,146 --> 00:24:01,023 I mean, to me, we're all friends. 464 00:24:01,106 --> 00:24:04,026 We're working together on these projects. 465 00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:07,071 We were just like a family. 466 00:24:07,154 --> 00:24:11,325 I still was modeling full-time and traveling a lot. 467 00:24:11,408 --> 00:24:13,661 So, when the E! Channel was doing a special 468 00:24:13,744 --> 00:24:15,537 on male models, 469 00:24:15,621 --> 00:24:18,082 I suggested they come down to North Carolina 470 00:24:18,165 --> 00:24:20,125 and see this life I had. 471 00:24:20,209 --> 00:24:22,294 Hey, come on in. This is the Lotus Group. 472 00:24:22,378 --> 00:24:24,213 Our office is down here in North Carolina. 473 00:24:24,296 --> 00:24:25,923 We thought, he's getting press, 474 00:24:26,006 --> 00:24:27,675 and he's getting a whole segment. 475 00:24:27,758 --> 00:24:31,387 This could be good PR for everyone in the group. 476 00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:34,682 You're watching E!, the entertainment authority. 477 00:24:34,765 --> 00:24:37,101 I've always wanted to do-- 478 00:24:37,184 --> 00:24:39,478 Basically, the general note was, 479 00:24:39,561 --> 00:24:41,271 don't be a weirdo. 480 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:44,483 But the whole thing was staged and fake. 481 00:24:44,566 --> 00:24:46,902 One of the great things about working here at Lotus Group is, 482 00:24:46,986 --> 00:24:50,698 you're greeted every day by our lovely Blair. 483 00:24:50,781 --> 00:24:54,118 I mean, they'd hired a woman 484 00:24:54,201 --> 00:24:56,453 to be the receptionist. 485 00:24:56,537 --> 00:24:59,832 She was not a part of the group. 486 00:24:59,915 --> 00:25:03,252 I don't think Hoyt spent seconds in his life 487 00:25:03,335 --> 00:25:05,921 before that shot... 488 00:25:06,005 --> 00:25:07,464 talking to Blair. 489 00:25:07,548 --> 00:25:10,467 She takes care of all the phones down here. 490 00:25:10,551 --> 00:25:11,885 She's a lovely lady. 491 00:25:11,969 --> 00:25:14,138 And we had this awkward dinner, 492 00:25:14,221 --> 00:25:16,515 where, for some reason, 493 00:25:16,598 --> 00:25:19,393 I've got a fucking suit and tie on. 494 00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:24,189 I remember looking over at Hoyt, like, seriously? 495 00:25:24,273 --> 00:25:26,275 When's the last fucking time we sat down 496 00:25:26,358 --> 00:25:28,318 and ate dinner at the table? 497 00:25:30,154 --> 00:25:32,364 He's reportedly the highest-paid male model 498 00:25:32,448 --> 00:25:35,284 in the world, but after nearly a decade in the business, 499 00:25:35,367 --> 00:25:37,286 success has not gone to Hoyt Richard's head. 500 00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:41,331 The E! TV show--we didn't see the finished edit 501 00:25:41,415 --> 00:25:42,791 until it went live on the air. 502 00:25:42,875 --> 00:25:44,960 When Hoyt's not working, he's here, 503 00:25:45,044 --> 00:25:46,295 among the calm and quiet 504 00:25:46,378 --> 00:25:48,172 of the North Carolina mountains. 505 00:25:48,255 --> 00:25:50,174 E! Made it all about Hoyt. 506 00:25:50,257 --> 00:25:52,509 Hoyt also manages a construction company. 507 00:25:52,593 --> 00:25:54,261 Hoyt's got these businesses, 508 00:25:54,344 --> 00:25:56,472 and he's employing his friends. 509 00:25:56,555 --> 00:26:00,142 That created tension amongst all of us 510 00:26:00,225 --> 00:26:01,685 in the group... 511 00:26:01,769 --> 00:26:04,188 Well, we won't bother you too much longer. 512 00:26:04,271 --> 00:26:06,273 But Dave's the authority on all this stuff. 513 00:26:06,356 --> 00:26:08,358 Because you had to remain humble. 514 00:26:08,442 --> 00:26:12,196 You know, he's getting a big head. 515 00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:15,574 In that group context, I was always on eggshells, 516 00:26:15,657 --> 00:26:17,576 like a lot of us were. 517 00:26:17,659 --> 00:26:19,995 We became like a more dysfunctional family 518 00:26:20,079 --> 00:26:22,581 that was kind of holding out for the apocalypse. 519 00:26:22,664 --> 00:26:25,125 This is our production office. 520 00:26:25,209 --> 00:26:27,669 You know, in many ways, when Frederick was alive, 521 00:26:27,753 --> 00:26:29,797 he definitely... 522 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,007 kind of spoiled me to some degree, 523 00:26:32,091 --> 00:26:34,593 and that built up a lot of resentment 524 00:26:34,676 --> 00:26:36,220 in some of the other members. 525 00:26:39,056 --> 00:26:43,519 The irony of it is, he's still funding shit. 526 00:26:43,602 --> 00:26:46,480 He would be gone on the road. 527 00:26:46,563 --> 00:26:49,108 Caribbean island one week, next week he's in Sweden. 528 00:26:49,191 --> 00:26:52,986 The next week he's in Los Angeles. 529 00:26:53,070 --> 00:26:54,863 When I was on the road, 530 00:26:54,947 --> 00:26:57,241 there were friends and relationships I was developing 531 00:26:57,324 --> 00:26:59,118 outside the group. 532 00:26:59,201 --> 00:27:02,204 And I met a woman named Donna in L.A. 533 00:27:02,287 --> 00:27:04,039 She was a beautiful brunette, 534 00:27:04,123 --> 00:27:06,333 and I was very intrigued by her. 535 00:27:06,416 --> 00:27:08,961 And so we just started to see each other, 536 00:27:09,044 --> 00:27:10,963 and it was very kind of sporadic. 537 00:27:11,046 --> 00:27:12,631 I was traveling so much, 538 00:27:12,714 --> 00:27:14,842 and I could only see her maybe once-- 539 00:27:14,925 --> 00:27:17,719 even sometimes once every two months. 540 00:27:17,803 --> 00:27:20,305 But I had developed these real feelings for her, 541 00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:22,057 and I realized that these things 542 00:27:22,141 --> 00:27:24,059 that had been so demonized over the years, 543 00:27:24,143 --> 00:27:25,269 this idea of romantic love-- 544 00:27:25,352 --> 00:27:27,187 I'm like, it doesn't feel so bad. 545 00:27:27,271 --> 00:27:29,773 I'm like, I really feel like she's in my corner, 546 00:27:29,857 --> 00:27:31,275 and she cares about me. 547 00:27:31,358 --> 00:27:33,861 And that relationship with Donna was something 548 00:27:33,944 --> 00:27:38,657 that started to unlock my heart in a way that I never expected. 549 00:27:38,740 --> 00:27:40,701 But I did it covertly. 550 00:27:40,784 --> 00:27:43,370 No one in the group knew about that. 551 00:27:49,585 --> 00:27:52,880 In the year 1999, the magnetic poles will shift, 552 00:27:52,963 --> 00:27:54,840 and humanity will be decimated. 553 00:27:54,923 --> 00:27:59,261 In 1999, the group was getting smaller. 554 00:27:59,344 --> 00:28:00,929 And for the remaining members-- 555 00:28:01,013 --> 00:28:04,933 everyone was very reliant on each other to survive. 556 00:28:05,017 --> 00:28:07,144 Here it is. 557 00:28:07,227 --> 00:28:10,147 These were some of the notes I wrote. 558 00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:13,275 "Operation: Safe Place." 559 00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:15,694 There was a lot of talk after Frederick died 560 00:28:15,777 --> 00:28:17,237 about the pole shift. 561 00:28:17,321 --> 00:28:20,949 1/10 of 1% of the population will be saved. 562 00:28:21,033 --> 00:28:22,784 That's how the plan started to get rolling. 563 00:28:22,868 --> 00:28:25,037 Okay, well, let me take you guys upstairs and show you-- 564 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,121 some of the-- 565 00:28:26,205 --> 00:28:27,039 the nuts and bolts 566 00:28:27,122 --> 00:28:28,081 behind the operation. 567 00:28:28,665 --> 00:28:31,919 We needed to start stockpiling food 568 00:28:32,002 --> 00:28:33,670 and be able to live off the grid. 569 00:28:33,754 --> 00:28:34,546 Secret hideout. 570 00:28:34,630 --> 00:28:35,923 Little bunker underneath there, huh? 571 00:28:36,381 --> 00:28:38,258 We know where to go when the bomb drops. 572 00:28:38,634 --> 00:28:41,720 They believed that there was gonna be 573 00:28:41,803 --> 00:28:45,140 some major earth-changing, 574 00:28:45,224 --> 00:28:48,310 catastrophic world event 575 00:28:48,393 --> 00:28:50,145 and that Lake Lure 576 00:28:50,229 --> 00:28:53,398 was one of the safe places. 577 00:28:53,482 --> 00:28:57,194 They owned some property way up on the mountain 578 00:28:57,277 --> 00:28:58,779 that had caves. 579 00:28:58,862 --> 00:29:03,158 And that's where everyone was gonna go. 580 00:29:03,242 --> 00:29:05,410 How was it gonna happen? 581 00:29:05,494 --> 00:29:08,247 Was the timeline right? 582 00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:11,917 And then the conversation began to turn 583 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,044 towards guns. 584 00:29:15,671 --> 00:29:18,090 We learned how to shoot guns. 585 00:29:18,173 --> 00:29:22,177 I had a shotgun, and I had a .45. 586 00:29:22,261 --> 00:29:25,347 It was just-- accumulate and provide 587 00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:28,767 the best defense for the future. 588 00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:33,188 And it just devolved into this quickly. 589 00:29:35,816 --> 00:29:39,528 Oh, yeah, they had quite an arsenal. 590 00:29:39,611 --> 00:29:42,364 They had stockpiled storage units 591 00:29:42,447 --> 00:29:46,326 just chock-full of all the survival stuff, 592 00:29:46,410 --> 00:29:49,955 to be safe until the world settled back down, 593 00:29:50,038 --> 00:29:53,625 and then they would come in and help everyone 594 00:29:53,709 --> 00:29:55,502 and save everyone. 595 00:29:58,672 --> 00:30:02,217 So I was the only girl that was left. 596 00:30:02,301 --> 00:30:06,722 And my boyfriend sat me down one night and asked me, 597 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:09,808 we're all gonna be together to survive. 598 00:30:09,891 --> 00:30:14,646 It would only be fair if you were willing to have sex 599 00:30:14,730 --> 00:30:16,189 with the other guys, 600 00:30:16,273 --> 00:30:19,651 and who would you be willing to have sex with? 601 00:30:19,735 --> 00:30:22,446 And I remember just being so... 602 00:30:22,529 --> 00:30:25,449 absolutely shocked and appalled. 603 00:30:25,532 --> 00:30:27,868 And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. 604 00:30:27,951 --> 00:30:30,454 And I wouldn't give him any names. 605 00:30:30,537 --> 00:30:32,456 And he was getting angry with me. 606 00:30:32,539 --> 00:30:36,335 And I was like, no, I would never consider it. 607 00:30:36,418 --> 00:30:39,921 There at the end, we thought we needed women 608 00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:42,174 to help repopulate the planet 609 00:30:42,257 --> 00:30:45,927 and raise enlightened beings. 610 00:30:46,011 --> 00:30:48,847 It's like a bad sci-fi script. 611 00:30:51,516 --> 00:30:54,269 As the millennium was approaching, 612 00:30:54,353 --> 00:30:56,688 there were gonna be all these Earth changes, 613 00:30:56,772 --> 00:30:59,358 like tidal waves and hurricanes. 614 00:30:59,441 --> 00:31:01,568 We were starting to buy gold and silver 615 00:31:01,651 --> 00:31:03,278 'cause that was gonna be 616 00:31:03,362 --> 00:31:05,405 the only tangible money source. 617 00:31:05,489 --> 00:31:07,449 Meanwhile, I'm, like, flying to London for a gig, 618 00:31:07,532 --> 00:31:10,702 and I'm like, economies aren't collapsing... 619 00:31:10,786 --> 00:31:14,498 No tidal waves, no earthquakes. 620 00:31:14,581 --> 00:31:16,500 It all sounds ludicrous, 621 00:31:16,583 --> 00:31:19,628 but part of my critical thinking 622 00:31:19,711 --> 00:31:22,297 started to come back. 623 00:31:22,381 --> 00:31:25,092 And that's when I started to approach the group 624 00:31:25,175 --> 00:31:26,968 with the idea-- 625 00:31:27,052 --> 00:31:28,887 you know, you guys are here in North Carolina. 626 00:31:28,970 --> 00:31:30,514 You're kind of in a bubble. 627 00:31:30,597 --> 00:31:32,724 I'm telling you, nothing's happening out there. 628 00:31:32,808 --> 00:31:36,228 And so I got attacked for that. 629 00:31:36,311 --> 00:31:39,689 And in that same conversation-- 630 00:31:39,773 --> 00:31:41,733 I thought it couldn't get any worse-- 631 00:31:41,817 --> 00:31:45,112 I'm like, oh, and by the way, I've been seeing someone. 632 00:31:45,195 --> 00:31:47,447 All hell broke loose. 633 00:31:47,531 --> 00:31:49,825 What do you mean you're seeing someone? 634 00:31:52,285 --> 00:31:56,498 At that point, they just said, you got to break up with her. 635 00:31:56,581 --> 00:31:58,750 You're being selfish, and you're being unfair to her. 636 00:31:58,834 --> 00:32:00,127 You know, what are you doing? 637 00:32:00,210 --> 00:32:01,336 And they painted it like, 638 00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:03,338 you're just being a motherfucker to this girl. 639 00:32:03,422 --> 00:32:05,715 She has no idea what you're involved with. 640 00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:08,927 And, you know, I told Donna, 641 00:32:09,010 --> 00:32:11,555 I thought I wanted to be in this relationship, 642 00:32:11,638 --> 00:32:13,306 but I've decided I don't. 643 00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:18,270 And it was incredibly harsh and severe. 644 00:32:18,353 --> 00:32:21,565 And treating her that way really did not... 645 00:32:23,859 --> 00:32:26,236 Did not sit well with me. 646 00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:28,947 And that started this whole period where they're like, 647 00:32:29,030 --> 00:32:31,158 okay, we got to save Hoyt from himself. 648 00:32:31,241 --> 00:32:34,619 He's clearly losing his mind. He can't survive out there. 649 00:32:34,703 --> 00:32:37,038 We've got to bring him back here to North Carolina. 650 00:32:37,122 --> 00:32:40,333 We have to watch him under lock and key. 651 00:32:40,417 --> 00:32:41,960 They were having him do 652 00:32:42,043 --> 00:32:44,796 every menial job possible 653 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,007 to teach him humility. 654 00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:49,426 You know, I had to be the first one up, 655 00:32:49,509 --> 00:32:50,802 the last one to bed. 656 00:32:50,886 --> 00:32:52,804 I was doing all the kind of shit work 657 00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:55,682 that no one else wanted to do. 658 00:32:55,765 --> 00:32:58,185 I got a call saying, you know, 659 00:32:58,268 --> 00:33:00,353 come over to the lake house. 660 00:33:00,437 --> 00:33:03,064 John was in serious trouble. 661 00:33:03,148 --> 00:33:05,400 And I walked into the kitchen, 662 00:33:05,484 --> 00:33:08,570 and John was sitting there, very submissive, 663 00:33:08,653 --> 00:33:12,991 sitting at the kitchen table, and his whole head was shaved. 664 00:33:13,074 --> 00:33:14,951 I mean, he was bald. 665 00:33:16,745 --> 00:33:18,622 And I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, 666 00:33:18,705 --> 00:33:21,124 what happened to your head? 667 00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:25,921 And they were like, yeah, tell Meg about what happened. 668 00:33:26,004 --> 00:33:27,839 The guys had instructed me 669 00:33:27,923 --> 00:33:30,800 that I was gonna have to move to North Carolina 670 00:33:30,884 --> 00:33:34,221 and give up my career. 671 00:33:34,304 --> 00:33:38,683 I knew, like, in my heart, I'm not ready to do this. 672 00:33:38,767 --> 00:33:41,394 But they said, just so you have no temptation 673 00:33:41,478 --> 00:33:43,271 to even think about leaving here, 674 00:33:43,355 --> 00:33:46,233 we're gonna shave your head so that you can't model anymore. 675 00:33:49,277 --> 00:33:52,280 I remember, you know, looking in the mirror, 676 00:33:52,364 --> 00:33:55,033 and I kept thinking to myself, 677 00:33:55,116 --> 00:33:57,452 If I had hair, I could actually probably, like, be 678 00:33:57,536 --> 00:34:00,038 in Milan right now... 679 00:34:00,121 --> 00:34:03,458 or Paris, you know, with, like, Claudia Schiffer 680 00:34:03,542 --> 00:34:06,461 or Cindy Crawford, making 25 G's a day. 681 00:34:06,545 --> 00:34:10,507 I guess I'm not spiritual, 'cause I'd rather be there. 682 00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:14,886 I became, as they called it, the bald hausfrau. 683 00:34:14,969 --> 00:34:18,056 I interpreted it as, like, it's my own fault. 684 00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:20,141 If I would just pull my head out of my ass 685 00:34:20,225 --> 00:34:21,893 and be more like them, 686 00:34:21,976 --> 00:34:23,978 I wouldn't have to go through this. 687 00:34:24,062 --> 00:34:25,688 But because I'm somehow flawed 688 00:34:25,772 --> 00:34:28,440 and because there's something wrong with me, 689 00:34:28,525 --> 00:34:30,735 I just feel like they're never gonna give up. 690 00:34:30,819 --> 00:34:34,072 I was like, I don't think I'm ever gonna measure up 691 00:34:34,155 --> 00:34:37,284 to what they're asking me to be. 692 00:34:37,367 --> 00:34:39,077 I just got to the point where I'm like, 693 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:41,079 I just can't take this. 694 00:34:41,161 --> 00:34:44,456 And so I mapped out a plan to just escape, 695 00:34:44,541 --> 00:34:47,252 and I went to the airport and left. 696 00:34:47,335 --> 00:34:48,503 I got to New York. 697 00:34:48,587 --> 00:34:50,505 I was putting my things together. 698 00:34:50,589 --> 00:34:54,175 I was gonna be there one night before I left. 699 00:34:54,259 --> 00:34:57,178 And sure enough, man, they appeared at that door 700 00:34:57,262 --> 00:34:58,555 in New York City. 701 00:35:01,683 --> 00:35:05,312 I remember one of the guys sat in the doorway 702 00:35:05,395 --> 00:35:07,314 to make sure that in the middle of the night, 703 00:35:07,397 --> 00:35:09,149 I couldn't leave. 704 00:35:09,232 --> 00:35:12,944 And so I was sleeping by the window... 705 00:35:13,028 --> 00:35:14,904 And I thought about jumping. 706 00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:20,744 But I didn't. 707 00:35:20,827 --> 00:35:23,622 And they brought me back to North Carolina. 708 00:35:25,415 --> 00:35:30,003 And I lasted, I think, three, four more weeks. 709 00:35:30,086 --> 00:35:32,589 And I was like, this time I'm not getting caught. 710 00:35:32,672 --> 00:35:34,549 No fucking way, man. 711 00:35:39,638 --> 00:35:44,434 It was actually the weekend of July 4th. 712 00:35:44,517 --> 00:35:48,772 And when I left, I constructed a letter to leave 713 00:35:48,855 --> 00:35:50,982 for the guys in North Carolina to alert them, 714 00:35:51,066 --> 00:35:52,651 to kind of say, I've gone. 715 00:35:54,444 --> 00:35:56,655 "It's official, I quit. 716 00:35:56,738 --> 00:35:59,991 "Everything you've ever said about me is true. 717 00:36:00,075 --> 00:36:01,993 "I'm hopeless and totally selfish. 718 00:36:02,077 --> 00:36:04,162 "I'm the laziest person in the room. 719 00:36:04,245 --> 00:36:06,623 "I've wasted my life. 720 00:36:06,706 --> 00:36:09,167 "I deserve to spend the rest of my life with the trash, 721 00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:10,377 "just like myself. 722 00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:12,671 "David, you've always said, at this time, 723 00:36:12,754 --> 00:36:14,589 "when everything is falling apart, 724 00:36:14,673 --> 00:36:16,800 "people's true colors will be shown. 725 00:36:16,883 --> 00:36:19,928 "I cringe to think of the penalty that I will pay. 726 00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:21,888 "It was not bad enough to betray Frederick 727 00:36:21,971 --> 00:36:24,182 "and all he stood for, but now all of you. 728 00:36:24,265 --> 00:36:25,600 "As I've said many times, 729 00:36:25,684 --> 00:36:27,435 "you're the only real friends I've ever had. 730 00:36:27,519 --> 00:36:30,188 You will never see me again." 731 00:36:30,271 --> 00:36:32,524 Signed, Dipshit." 732 00:36:38,863 --> 00:36:42,534 So I had organized a call to a cab-- 733 00:36:42,617 --> 00:36:45,203 meet me at 2:30 in the morning, 734 00:36:45,286 --> 00:36:48,331 hoping that at that point, everyone would be asleep. 735 00:36:48,415 --> 00:36:50,625 We had two German shepherds, 736 00:36:50,709 --> 00:36:53,420 so I had to creep and stay quiet, 737 00:36:53,503 --> 00:36:55,839 keep the dogs calm. 738 00:36:55,922 --> 00:36:58,049 And we had a gravel driveway 739 00:36:58,133 --> 00:37:01,094 about a mile and a half down the hill 740 00:37:01,177 --> 00:37:03,221 through forest. 741 00:37:03,304 --> 00:37:05,807 But when I felt like I was out of earshot, 742 00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:07,767 I just fucking bolted. 743 00:37:10,145 --> 00:37:11,396 And I was gone. 744 00:37:13,273 --> 00:37:16,234 Yeah, and that time, I never came back. 745 00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:22,782 I remember asking one of the guys, where's John? 746 00:37:22,866 --> 00:37:24,075 I haven't seen him around. 747 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,077 Or has he gone back to New York? 748 00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:28,371 And he said, yeah, he's left, he's gone. 749 00:37:28,455 --> 00:37:30,915 And I was not to talk about John. 750 00:37:30,999 --> 00:37:33,877 I was not to ask about him. 751 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,838 I left. I went to California. 752 00:37:36,921 --> 00:37:40,633 I put as much land between me and them. 753 00:37:40,717 --> 00:37:45,096 I had about $3,000, but I didn't know where to go. 754 00:37:48,433 --> 00:37:50,477 I remember Hoyt-- he called me, 755 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,564 and he told me, you know, he was really in bad shape. 756 00:37:56,566 --> 00:37:59,569 He was really beat up. 757 00:37:59,652 --> 00:38:01,780 I mean, his brain went blank. 758 00:38:01,863 --> 00:38:04,115 He was, like, a straight line, 759 00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:07,911 morally, spiritually-- 760 00:38:07,994 --> 00:38:10,121 just like a zombie. 761 00:38:10,205 --> 00:38:11,623 And I said, listen, you know, 762 00:38:11,706 --> 00:38:13,917 you can stay here until, you know, you figure out 763 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,585 what you want to do in your life. 764 00:38:15,668 --> 00:38:17,128 You can stay in my place 765 00:38:17,212 --> 00:38:20,215 so you don't have to worry about bills. 766 00:38:20,298 --> 00:38:23,051 Fabio is incredibly loyal. 767 00:38:23,134 --> 00:38:26,012 It's like, you're his friend, you're his friend for life. 768 00:38:26,095 --> 00:38:29,057 I don't know if he just knew instinctively 769 00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:32,268 or whether he had so much going on in his own career. 770 00:38:32,352 --> 00:38:35,855 But at the time, he played it off like, you know, nothing. 771 00:38:35,939 --> 00:38:38,525 Come stay. You know, let's go to the gym. 772 00:38:38,608 --> 00:38:40,443 No questions asked. 773 00:38:40,527 --> 00:38:42,403 Didn't even ask me why my head was shaved. 774 00:38:42,487 --> 00:38:45,573 I made up some story about some extreme modeling job. 775 00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:48,159 Hoyt was being an extremely successful model 776 00:38:48,243 --> 00:38:51,830 and, all of a sudden, was left with no money, nothing. 777 00:38:51,913 --> 00:38:53,456 These people-- they were like piranhas. 778 00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:56,167 I mean, they left him with nothing. 779 00:38:59,504 --> 00:39:01,756 Being at Fabio's... 780 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,758 just gave me a place to incubate 781 00:39:03,842 --> 00:39:07,720 and start to process some of my feelings. 782 00:39:07,804 --> 00:39:11,432 I was still contemplating, maybe I should return. 783 00:39:11,516 --> 00:39:14,102 Hoyt was very honest and very open about it. 784 00:39:14,185 --> 00:39:17,146 And I knew that they will come. 785 00:39:17,230 --> 00:39:19,190 Eventually life will slap you in the face, 786 00:39:19,274 --> 00:39:21,192 and you realize, oh, my God, you know, 787 00:39:21,276 --> 00:39:25,572 it's like, I've been taken for a ride. 788 00:39:25,655 --> 00:39:27,574 I told him, I said, listen, 789 00:39:27,657 --> 00:39:29,576 what people do most of the time in life? 790 00:39:29,659 --> 00:39:31,786 They always blame somebody else. 791 00:39:31,870 --> 00:39:35,039 It takes two to tangle in life. 792 00:39:35,123 --> 00:39:37,000 He got sucked in... 793 00:39:37,083 --> 00:39:40,795 but he was smart enough to get out 794 00:39:40,879 --> 00:39:43,506 and realize, I made a big mistake. 795 00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:46,217 You know what? What I gonna do now? 796 00:39:48,386 --> 00:39:52,348 After about a year, I went to meet a friend 797 00:39:52,432 --> 00:39:55,226 at a lunch place in Beverly Hills... 798 00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:57,979 and the maître d' there recognized me. 799 00:39:58,062 --> 00:39:59,814 And he said, are you Hoyt Richards? 800 00:39:59,898 --> 00:40:01,232 And I said, yeah, yeah. 801 00:40:01,316 --> 00:40:03,568 And he's like, I'm friends with Dar. 802 00:40:03,651 --> 00:40:07,405 And I didn't really know how to respond. 803 00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:10,033 So I said, please tell Dar 804 00:40:10,116 --> 00:40:12,660 I'm living in L.A. and I'm alone. 805 00:40:12,744 --> 00:40:15,038 And I'm like, God, I hope he gets the message, man, 806 00:40:15,121 --> 00:40:17,582 and I hope he knows what I'm saying. 807 00:40:17,665 --> 00:40:19,417 And three weeks go by, 808 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:22,921 and I get this phone call I don't recognize. 809 00:40:23,004 --> 00:40:26,257 Hey, Hoyter, it's Dar. I'm like, hey, Dar. 810 00:40:26,341 --> 00:40:28,635 He's like, yeah, I'm calling from my therapist's office. 811 00:40:28,718 --> 00:40:32,263 My therapist said I should call you. 812 00:40:32,347 --> 00:40:34,474 When we finally ended up meeting, 813 00:40:34,557 --> 00:40:38,186 I told him, no more North Carolina for me. 814 00:40:38,269 --> 00:40:41,230 I began to explain-- 815 00:40:41,314 --> 00:40:44,067 in North Carolina, just before I left, 816 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:46,694 I was in a bar and having a good time. 817 00:40:46,778 --> 00:40:50,865 But when I got into the car... 818 00:40:50,949 --> 00:40:54,494 We had a loaded assault rifle in the car, 819 00:40:54,577 --> 00:40:56,454 and we didn't pull over. 820 00:40:56,537 --> 00:41:01,000 We drove down the driveway into the lake house and parked. 821 00:41:01,084 --> 00:41:03,252 I jump out of the car. 822 00:41:03,336 --> 00:41:06,130 This guy had called for backup. 823 00:41:06,214 --> 00:41:08,967 And I got tackled from behind. 824 00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:11,052 I mean, it was Highway Patrol, 825 00:41:11,135 --> 00:41:14,639 sheriffs, police, siren, lights everywhere. 826 00:41:14,722 --> 00:41:16,516 And the guys were screaming and yelling, 827 00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,267 don't tell them your name. 828 00:41:18,351 --> 00:41:19,894 Don't tell them your name. 829 00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:22,105 They don't have to have any information. 830 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:25,733 After we got out on bail, 831 00:41:25,817 --> 00:41:29,445 we filed this paperwork, which I wasn't even really clear on, 832 00:41:29,529 --> 00:41:31,489 but it was the same type of paperwork 833 00:41:31,572 --> 00:41:35,034 that these militiamen and the guy at Ruby Ridge 834 00:41:35,118 --> 00:41:36,619 had filled out, 835 00:41:36,703 --> 00:41:39,831 telling the government, you don't have any power over us. 836 00:41:39,914 --> 00:41:42,041 We're sovereign people. 837 00:41:42,125 --> 00:41:45,336 But we really pissed off the entire state. 838 00:41:45,420 --> 00:41:48,506 And they let the lawyers 839 00:41:48,589 --> 00:41:51,134 and they let the private investigators know 840 00:41:51,217 --> 00:41:54,887 that we were considered anti-government terrorists. 841 00:41:57,056 --> 00:41:59,517 After that happened, I woke up, 842 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,895 and I thought to myself, fuck this. 843 00:42:02,979 --> 00:42:05,356 And I called up my folks, 844 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,568 and that was my out from the group. 845 00:42:08,651 --> 00:42:11,362 And I was scared to death when I did it. 846 00:42:14,032 --> 00:42:16,200 Dar and I ended up becoming roommates, 847 00:42:16,284 --> 00:42:18,911 and we spent the first six months 848 00:42:18,995 --> 00:42:21,789 just trying to deconstruct the whole Eternal Values experience 849 00:42:21,873 --> 00:42:23,166 as best as we could. 850 00:42:23,249 --> 00:42:24,959 Like, hey, man, do you remember when this happened? 851 00:42:25,043 --> 00:42:26,753 What do you think was going on there? 852 00:42:26,836 --> 00:42:28,963 Like, that was weird, right? Like, what was that? 853 00:42:29,047 --> 00:42:31,382 We really started to reverse engineer 854 00:42:31,466 --> 00:42:32,842 what had happened. 855 00:42:35,762 --> 00:42:37,555 We start to revisit things 856 00:42:37,638 --> 00:42:40,016 that had been said by Frederick. 857 00:42:40,099 --> 00:42:42,643 As we've said before and we wish to emphasize again, 858 00:42:42,727 --> 00:42:45,396 these platforms are to bring knowledge 859 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,524 to the general public to prevent... 860 00:42:48,608 --> 00:42:50,568 the spread of cults through information, 861 00:42:50,651 --> 00:42:52,737 instead of fear and guilt and superstition. 862 00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:54,197 You cannot stop cults 863 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,199 through fear and guilt and superstition, 864 00:42:56,282 --> 00:42:58,534 only through radiant, glowing, shining universal knowledge. 865 00:42:58,618 --> 00:43:01,579 Anyone who has you bow or worship them 866 00:43:01,662 --> 00:43:03,122 as a physical form 867 00:43:03,206 --> 00:43:04,415 is an instrument 868 00:43:04,499 --> 00:43:07,001 of the most dark and diabolical forces on the Earth. 869 00:43:07,085 --> 00:43:08,920 You know, people have been saying for years 870 00:43:09,003 --> 00:43:10,463 this thing's a cult. 871 00:43:10,546 --> 00:43:13,508 You think maybe there's some chance it could have been? 872 00:43:13,591 --> 00:43:15,802 My head just... 873 00:43:15,885 --> 00:43:18,471 And I couldn't even hear what Hoyt said for a good minute. 874 00:43:18,554 --> 00:43:20,014 I'm against cults. 875 00:43:20,098 --> 00:43:23,976 Don't anybody try to tell me that I am a cult. 876 00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:26,020 I said, do you know much about cults? 877 00:43:26,104 --> 00:43:27,271 And he's like, well, no, no. 878 00:43:27,355 --> 00:43:29,607 I'm like, well, neither do I. I don't think it was a cult. 879 00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:32,527 Let me just try to do a little bit of research. 880 00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:34,487 And the best-selling book was this book called 881 00:43:34,570 --> 00:43:36,531 "Combating Cult Mind Control." 882 00:43:36,614 --> 00:43:38,241 Mind control exists. 883 00:43:38,324 --> 00:43:41,244 Intelligent, bright people can be deceived... 884 00:43:41,327 --> 00:43:43,162 Steve Hassan, who's a former Moonie... 885 00:43:43,246 --> 00:43:45,248 Indoctrinated into committing 886 00:43:45,331 --> 00:43:46,666 horrendous acts. 887 00:43:46,749 --> 00:43:49,919 I thought to myself, that's definitely a cult. 888 00:43:50,002 --> 00:43:51,712 But I got the book. 889 00:43:51,796 --> 00:43:54,257 The first 60, maybe 70 pages 890 00:43:54,340 --> 00:43:56,634 was how he had been indoctrinated. 891 00:43:56,717 --> 00:43:59,053 Boy, you could have just changed the names, 892 00:43:59,137 --> 00:44:01,931 and it was my story, and I'm like... 893 00:44:02,014 --> 00:44:04,684 That was a seminal moment in my life. 894 00:44:04,767 --> 00:44:08,187 And I needed that like I needed oxygen. 895 00:44:08,271 --> 00:44:11,858 And even if it hurt and it was painful, 896 00:44:11,941 --> 00:44:14,735 I needed that. 897 00:44:14,819 --> 00:44:18,573 I made a few phone calls down to North Carolina. 898 00:44:18,656 --> 00:44:20,575 Like, you're all in a fucking cult. 899 00:44:20,658 --> 00:44:22,076 You're brainwashed. 900 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,787 And I knew it was all falling on deaf ears, 901 00:44:24,871 --> 00:44:27,373 but, man, it felt good. 902 00:44:29,083 --> 00:44:31,043 John reached out to me, 903 00:44:31,127 --> 00:44:33,880 and he said, Meg, it's a cult. 904 00:44:33,963 --> 00:44:37,633 It's always been a cult. 905 00:44:37,717 --> 00:44:42,096 And I remember my boyfriend kept saying, it's not a cult, 906 00:44:42,180 --> 00:44:44,307 you fucking blah, blah, blah. 907 00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:46,267 And he's calling me every name in the book, 908 00:44:46,350 --> 00:44:47,894 and he's screaming at me. 909 00:44:47,977 --> 00:44:50,062 And, of course, I mean, I was hysterical. 910 00:44:50,146 --> 00:44:53,691 I am shaking, and I'm thinking, can I get out of here now? 911 00:44:53,774 --> 00:44:55,943 Well, I had my dad's pistol, 912 00:44:56,027 --> 00:44:59,071 and I shot the gun off in the ceiling. 913 00:44:59,155 --> 00:45:02,533 And the second I did that, I was like, holy crap. 914 00:45:02,617 --> 00:45:04,160 You know, it's just shock. 915 00:45:06,954 --> 00:45:09,290 When things went south with Meg 916 00:45:09,373 --> 00:45:12,835 is when my wife and I became involved, 917 00:45:12,919 --> 00:45:16,923 and then you could see the dark side of... 918 00:45:17,006 --> 00:45:18,716 of Eternal Value members. 919 00:45:18,799 --> 00:45:21,677 And they were certainly threatening to Meg. 920 00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:25,932 I just--I couldn't. I was done. 921 00:45:26,015 --> 00:45:27,725 I was terrified. 922 00:45:27,808 --> 00:45:30,686 So I packed up, and I moved home. 923 00:45:34,065 --> 00:45:37,735 At that time, I was virtually broke, 924 00:45:37,818 --> 00:45:40,404 but I always had in the back of my mind, 925 00:45:40,488 --> 00:45:42,365 I have a cushion 'cause I've got these gems 926 00:45:42,448 --> 00:45:47,161 that I've probably paid close to $200,000 for. 927 00:45:47,245 --> 00:45:49,580 I got them all evaluated, 928 00:45:49,664 --> 00:45:51,582 and out of the six or seven gems, 929 00:45:51,666 --> 00:45:54,377 I think they were worth $11,000 total. 930 00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:56,754 And that's when I realized 931 00:45:56,837 --> 00:45:59,465 that I had been taken. 932 00:46:01,467 --> 00:46:04,845 All the guys in North Carolina were still living in a house 933 00:46:04,929 --> 00:46:06,555 I helped pay for. 934 00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:09,225 They had businesses that I had financed. 935 00:46:09,308 --> 00:46:10,601 I got really angry, 936 00:46:10,685 --> 00:46:13,145 and I ended up suing the remaining members. 937 00:46:13,229 --> 00:46:14,981 You know, I'm gonna be litigating 938 00:46:15,064 --> 00:46:16,774 against the individuals that are left, 939 00:46:16,857 --> 00:46:19,068 because not only--it's not really even the money. 940 00:46:19,151 --> 00:46:21,612 It's the issue of what they're doing and what they stand for. 941 00:46:21,696 --> 00:46:22,780 I mean, I-- 942 00:46:22,863 --> 00:46:24,615 I didn't know how it was gonna end up, 943 00:46:24,699 --> 00:46:26,784 but, you know, my lawyer's like, you know, 944 00:46:26,867 --> 00:46:28,953 this might be a real battle. 945 00:46:29,036 --> 00:46:31,414 He was hell-bent on getting his money back, 946 00:46:31,497 --> 00:46:33,207 'cause the guys in North Carolina 947 00:46:33,291 --> 00:46:35,418 were trying to sell the lake house. 948 00:46:35,501 --> 00:46:38,004 They're just trying to sell off everything. 949 00:46:38,087 --> 00:46:40,798 We had 36 corporations, 950 00:46:40,881 --> 00:46:42,967 which is one of the most damning things. 951 00:46:43,050 --> 00:46:46,679 It just shows that, you know, something funky's going on. 952 00:46:46,762 --> 00:46:51,100 We just went after them, and it led to a mediation. 953 00:46:52,977 --> 00:46:55,479 John Hoyt reached out to me, 954 00:46:55,563 --> 00:46:58,232 and he said, I'm suing everybody, 955 00:46:58,316 --> 00:47:00,192 and I'm trying to get this money. 956 00:47:00,276 --> 00:47:01,444 Can you help me? 957 00:47:01,527 --> 00:47:03,029 And I think he wanted me around 958 00:47:03,112 --> 00:47:06,157 because he knew that I was the accountant back then. 959 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:08,784 For me doing that, he said, 960 00:47:08,868 --> 00:47:10,661 I'll give you $10,000, 961 00:47:10,745 --> 00:47:12,872 you know, once everything is settled. 962 00:47:12,955 --> 00:47:15,458 So John and I drove to the lake house. 963 00:47:15,541 --> 00:47:17,710 This is the first time I'd seen the lake house 964 00:47:17,793 --> 00:47:20,463 in 13 years or so. 965 00:47:20,546 --> 00:47:23,674 At that point, I think there were about five of them. 966 00:47:23,758 --> 00:47:25,593 And we were having this whole talk, 967 00:47:25,676 --> 00:47:28,346 and they're just lying out of their mouth. 968 00:47:28,429 --> 00:47:31,057 But I think what was most disturbing for me 969 00:47:31,140 --> 00:47:33,434 was knowing that just two, three years ago, 970 00:47:33,517 --> 00:47:35,478 I would have been on that side of the table 971 00:47:35,561 --> 00:47:37,480 and lying the same way they were. 972 00:47:37,563 --> 00:47:40,066 Everything was shady because we didn't pertain 973 00:47:40,149 --> 00:47:41,275 to the world's standards. 974 00:47:41,359 --> 00:47:43,069 We were on a different standard. 975 00:47:43,152 --> 00:47:45,071 And I finally got to the point where, like, listen, I can't-- 976 00:47:45,154 --> 00:47:46,864 I can't be a part of this anymore. 977 00:47:46,947 --> 00:47:49,283 And I left, thinking that I was a failure. 978 00:47:53,746 --> 00:47:56,874 That's where it stood, on that property, 979 00:47:56,957 --> 00:47:58,876 the lake house. 980 00:47:58,959 --> 00:48:01,170 The guys thought they were gonna be walking away 981 00:48:01,253 --> 00:48:04,715 with a million dollars for this property and this house, 982 00:48:04,799 --> 00:48:07,093 but they were stopped in their tracks. 983 00:48:11,430 --> 00:48:14,725 In 2002, my lawyer had been contacted by their lawyer, 984 00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:16,894 and so we knew there was an opportunity 985 00:48:16,977 --> 00:48:18,604 to kind of resolve this. 986 00:48:18,687 --> 00:48:21,190 And so we settled the case 987 00:48:21,273 --> 00:48:24,735 and basically liquidated every asset 988 00:48:24,819 --> 00:48:26,821 that was attached to Eternal Values, 989 00:48:26,904 --> 00:48:30,199 and, effectively, Eternal Values was dead. 990 00:48:30,282 --> 00:48:33,119 And that, I could live with. 991 00:48:36,247 --> 00:48:38,833 After that, I didn't know what would happen to those guys, 992 00:48:38,916 --> 00:48:42,545 and I really, at that point, didn't particularly care. 993 00:48:42,628 --> 00:48:45,214 But I just wanted to move forward with my life. 994 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,637 I think for me, the hardest part 995 00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,182 is knowing that I hurt a lot of people 996 00:48:55,266 --> 00:48:57,935 when I went down this path. 997 00:48:58,018 --> 00:49:01,230 You can't heal other people's wounds, 998 00:49:01,313 --> 00:49:03,774 but I tried to make a sincere effort 999 00:49:03,858 --> 00:49:06,902 to reconnect with my family. 1000 00:49:06,986 --> 00:49:10,239 And by the time I came back, 1001 00:49:10,322 --> 00:49:13,576 my mother-- she was fighting cancer. 1002 00:49:15,411 --> 00:49:18,372 That's my mother, you know, towards the end of her life. 1003 00:49:18,456 --> 00:49:19,999 And... 1004 00:49:20,082 --> 00:49:23,669 At this point... 1005 00:49:23,752 --> 00:49:26,464 she was wearing a wig... 1006 00:49:26,547 --> 00:49:30,759 because she'd been doing chemotherapy, and... 1007 00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:35,681 You know, she was so brave. 1008 00:49:35,764 --> 00:49:37,224 We couldn't reach you. 1009 00:49:37,308 --> 00:49:40,436 And I was the one that realized you were in a cult. 1010 00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:44,607 When John came out, he came and joined everybody 1011 00:49:44,690 --> 00:49:46,400 for Christmas that year. 1012 00:49:46,484 --> 00:49:48,611 That would have really been the first time 1013 00:49:48,694 --> 00:49:51,989 that he would have had an opportunity 1014 00:49:52,072 --> 00:49:56,202 to meet my wife and my son and my daughter. 1015 00:49:56,285 --> 00:49:58,871 Well, this is Helen. This is Matthew. 1016 00:49:58,954 --> 00:50:03,334 It took a while for John to get back to his old self. 1017 00:50:03,417 --> 00:50:04,793 It's difficult for anybody. 1018 00:50:04,877 --> 00:50:07,296 I don't think anyone snaps out of it quickly. 1019 00:50:07,379 --> 00:50:10,090 Okay, hi, I am John Hoyt. 1020 00:50:10,174 --> 00:50:13,427 I'm now 41 years old. 1021 00:50:13,511 --> 00:50:17,890 And I was so terrified of coming home. 1022 00:50:17,973 --> 00:50:22,520 My mother--as her illness started to really take hold, 1023 00:50:22,603 --> 00:50:26,106 I chose to become her primary caretaker. 1024 00:50:26,190 --> 00:50:27,858 In some crazy way, 1025 00:50:27,942 --> 00:50:30,444 I had been prepared for that, 1026 00:50:30,528 --> 00:50:33,030 going through it with, you know, Freddy 1027 00:50:33,113 --> 00:50:35,616 when he was dying. 1028 00:50:35,699 --> 00:50:38,369 All she said was... 1029 00:50:38,452 --> 00:50:40,871 That she loved me... 1030 00:50:40,955 --> 00:50:45,251 And that she understood. 1031 00:50:45,334 --> 00:50:47,753 I'm very grateful to God, and I thank God. 1032 00:50:47,836 --> 00:50:51,215 And I think that prayer really made the difference 1033 00:50:51,298 --> 00:50:53,133 in bringing you home. 1034 00:50:53,217 --> 00:50:55,261 I didn't see her for 12 years. 1035 00:50:55,344 --> 00:50:56,845 She goes, and I kept-- 1036 00:50:56,929 --> 00:50:59,682 I kept feeling like... 1037 00:50:59,765 --> 00:51:02,851 like you were in this prison. 1038 00:51:02,935 --> 00:51:06,564 You know, I was able to tell her that... 1039 00:51:06,647 --> 00:51:08,691 that I think her prayers were heard 1040 00:51:08,774 --> 00:51:11,902 and that it really did help. 1041 00:51:11,986 --> 00:51:13,279 And I felt so bad. 1042 00:51:13,362 --> 00:51:16,865 You know, I had missed so many weddings and graduations. 1043 00:51:16,949 --> 00:51:18,951 I was always invited. 1044 00:51:21,203 --> 00:51:23,539 But I let them all down. 1045 00:51:23,622 --> 00:51:26,875 It's just time you just can't get back. 1046 00:51:26,959 --> 00:51:29,712 But... 1047 00:51:29,795 --> 00:51:32,089 my mother's illness gave me an opportunity 1048 00:51:32,172 --> 00:51:34,341 to prove to my family... 1049 00:51:36,385 --> 00:51:38,304 That I was back. 1050 00:51:45,978 --> 00:51:48,480 It's extraordinary for me now to look back on things 1051 00:51:48,564 --> 00:51:51,650 from the point of view that at age 16, 1052 00:51:51,734 --> 00:51:54,445 going to the beach to meet your buddies 1053 00:51:54,528 --> 00:51:57,489 could take your life down the road of being in a cult. 1054 00:51:57,573 --> 00:51:59,325 I live in Nantucket in the summer, 1055 00:51:59,408 --> 00:52:01,243 and I have many people who come and stay with me. 1056 00:52:01,327 --> 00:52:02,745 I mean, they're from... 1057 00:52:02,828 --> 00:52:05,664 Today my recovery path was very much 1058 00:52:05,748 --> 00:52:09,752 about trying to not only forgive myself... 1059 00:52:09,835 --> 00:52:12,963 but also educate myself on how it happened 1060 00:52:13,047 --> 00:52:15,633 and how to possibly give others 1061 00:52:15,716 --> 00:52:17,551 some of the red flags to look out for 1062 00:52:17,635 --> 00:52:19,261 that I didn't know existed. 1063 00:52:20,804 --> 00:52:24,642 Hoyt, tell us how this is like other cult behavior. 1064 00:52:24,725 --> 00:52:26,352 You don't join a cult. 1065 00:52:26,435 --> 00:52:28,562 You know, no one ever tells you it's a cult. 1066 00:52:28,646 --> 00:52:30,564 It's a bait-and-switch maneuver. 1067 00:52:30,648 --> 00:52:32,983 The more I talked about the Eternal Values 1068 00:52:33,067 --> 00:52:34,985 and Freddy, in particular, 1069 00:52:35,069 --> 00:52:38,155 people start playing a version of that story 1070 00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:39,365 from their lives, 1071 00:52:39,448 --> 00:52:41,492 going, wait a second, this sounds like the relationship 1072 00:52:41,575 --> 00:52:46,246 I had with my dad or my mom or my boss or my coach. 1073 00:52:46,330 --> 00:52:47,831 I mean, I was only 16. 1074 00:52:47,915 --> 00:52:49,875 I was coming up with a lot of things in my life. 1075 00:52:49,958 --> 00:52:52,169 The person you're seeking love and approval from is, 1076 00:52:52,252 --> 00:52:55,172 in some way, abusing and controlling you. 1077 00:52:55,255 --> 00:52:58,467 In the thousands of conversations I've had, 1078 00:52:58,550 --> 00:53:00,386 I actually haven't met someone who hasn't had 1079 00:53:00,469 --> 00:53:02,846 some sort of relationship like that. 1080 00:53:02,930 --> 00:53:05,015 I mean, unconsciously, I was a recruiter. 1081 00:53:05,099 --> 00:53:06,892 That's what I did. 1082 00:53:06,975 --> 00:53:08,852 You know, there are a lot of people 1083 00:53:08,936 --> 00:53:11,271 that I am responsible for having introduced 1084 00:53:11,355 --> 00:53:13,732 to, you know, Freddy and Eternal Values. 1085 00:53:13,816 --> 00:53:16,026 And that's just something I have to live with. 1086 00:53:20,489 --> 00:53:23,575 It's only recently that I took Hoyt's call, 1087 00:53:23,659 --> 00:53:25,619 and I got to tell you... 1088 00:53:25,703 --> 00:53:28,580 I poured myself a glass of Irish whiskey, 1089 00:53:28,664 --> 00:53:30,833 and I drank it down, 1090 00:53:30,916 --> 00:53:33,836 and then I took that call. 1091 00:53:33,919 --> 00:53:35,713 And it was a good talk. 1092 00:53:35,796 --> 00:53:38,966 And he did express remorse. 1093 00:53:39,049 --> 00:53:43,137 And I told him, the things I've been victimized on 1094 00:53:43,220 --> 00:53:47,015 or someone hurt me-- those don't define me. 1095 00:53:47,099 --> 00:53:49,226 Getting involved in a cult 1096 00:53:49,309 --> 00:53:51,645 and being one of Freddy's victims 1097 00:53:51,729 --> 00:53:53,355 is definitely not my story. 1098 00:54:03,073 --> 00:54:05,075 I had this thing happen, 1099 00:54:05,159 --> 00:54:08,245 but I have learned to make better mistakes 1100 00:54:08,328 --> 00:54:12,916 and keep risking and not stopping challenging myself. 1101 00:54:15,627 --> 00:54:18,088 And I realized from talking to Hoyt 1102 00:54:18,172 --> 00:54:21,508 how very sensitive he is. 1103 00:54:21,592 --> 00:54:25,262 And I can appreciate what he's doing--educating people. 1104 00:54:25,345 --> 00:54:29,183 Unfortunately, mind control works on everybody 1105 00:54:29,266 --> 00:54:30,559 once you're receptive. 1106 00:54:30,642 --> 00:54:34,104 You just won't even see it coming. 1107 00:54:34,188 --> 00:54:37,691 The idea of the cult is not a new one. 1108 00:54:37,775 --> 00:54:41,445 Political systems use these tools. 1109 00:54:41,528 --> 00:54:44,698 Our religious systems use these tools. 1110 00:54:44,782 --> 00:54:47,951 Our most primal fears are being used. 1111 00:54:49,620 --> 00:54:51,371 When I was in Eternal Values, 1112 00:54:51,455 --> 00:54:53,415 we'd look at other groups 1113 00:54:53,499 --> 00:54:55,083 and say, well, that's definitely a cult. 1114 00:54:55,167 --> 00:54:57,127 They're lying. They're lying. 1115 00:54:57,211 --> 00:54:59,671 But we never looked at ourselves at all that way. 1116 00:54:59,755 --> 00:55:02,716 I have with me four eternal cohorts of mine, 1117 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,385 all whom I've known since they were 16 years old-- 1118 00:55:05,469 --> 00:55:09,348 John Hoyt, who just graduated from Princeton University. 1119 00:55:09,431 --> 00:55:12,935 It's not easy to go back to the first time 1120 00:55:13,018 --> 00:55:15,854 when you met either Freddy or someone from the group 1121 00:55:15,938 --> 00:55:18,941 and just really kind of say, yeah, I got taken, 1122 00:55:19,024 --> 00:55:21,902 and start to reframe your life. 1123 00:55:21,985 --> 00:55:23,946 I mean, this was a guy from Brooklyn 1124 00:55:24,029 --> 00:55:27,491 who lied about who he was, lied about what he did. 1125 00:55:27,574 --> 00:55:30,285 He said he was an orphan, 1126 00:55:30,369 --> 00:55:34,331 but his mother was alive until recently--I think 2023. 1127 00:55:34,414 --> 00:55:37,626 Poor Fred, he really got railroaded. 1128 00:55:37,709 --> 00:55:40,295 Frederick was a sweet soul 1129 00:55:40,379 --> 00:55:42,548 and he was never a crook. 1130 00:55:42,631 --> 00:55:44,258 There was no cult. 1131 00:55:44,341 --> 00:55:45,926 There was none of that stuff. 1132 00:55:46,009 --> 00:55:47,553 That's the truth. 1133 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,765 When people meet John, 1134 00:55:51,849 --> 00:55:56,061 the first thing that he says is, I was in a cult. 1135 00:55:56,144 --> 00:55:57,646 I know what I felt 1136 00:55:57,729 --> 00:56:00,148 and what I learned from the Eternal Values. 1137 00:56:00,232 --> 00:56:02,192 And it wasn't my stopping point. 1138 00:56:02,276 --> 00:56:05,946 It was just my starting point for my spiritual journey. 1139 00:56:06,029 --> 00:56:08,365 So I want to defend 1140 00:56:08,448 --> 00:56:10,993 who I thought Frederick was and is 1141 00:56:11,076 --> 00:56:13,662 and what I've learned from Frederick. 1142 00:56:15,873 --> 00:56:18,292 When I think about the Eternal Values, 1143 00:56:18,375 --> 00:56:20,002 if I'm being honest, 1144 00:56:20,085 --> 00:56:22,212 I don't even know that I really call this 1145 00:56:22,296 --> 00:56:24,131 a cult myself yet. 1146 00:56:24,214 --> 00:56:26,550 You have to remember, 1147 00:56:26,633 --> 00:56:28,468 Frederick was my friend. 1148 00:56:28,552 --> 00:56:31,430 When I was separated from him and was left to my own devices, 1149 00:56:31,513 --> 00:56:34,224 I actually did about 100 times worse. 1150 00:56:34,308 --> 00:56:37,227 But maybe if I had taken the teaching 1151 00:56:37,311 --> 00:56:39,229 to its conclusion, 1152 00:56:39,313 --> 00:56:42,024 I would have accomplished a great deal. 1153 00:56:42,107 --> 00:56:44,818 Who is it that is experiencing 1154 00:56:44,902 --> 00:56:47,362 this television program this moment? 1155 00:56:47,446 --> 00:56:50,741 Frederick would be thrilled about this right now, 1156 00:56:50,824 --> 00:56:52,951 thrilled, because he wouldn't see anything 1157 00:56:53,035 --> 00:56:54,453 particularly wrong with it. 1158 00:56:54,536 --> 00:56:57,831 He would love the fact that he kept his place in line, 1159 00:56:57,915 --> 00:57:00,626 that people who are still talking about him 1160 00:57:00,709 --> 00:57:02,252 this many years later. 1161 00:57:03,837 --> 00:57:06,006 My life is certainly a mad soap opera. 1162 00:57:06,089 --> 00:57:07,007 If you could sit down 1163 00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:07,841 and imagine this-- 1164 00:57:07,925 --> 00:57:08,800 everything that's happened 1165 00:57:08,884 --> 00:57:10,928 as you're watching a TV program, 1166 00:57:11,261 --> 00:57:12,721 it would appear to anybody outside 1167 00:57:12,804 --> 00:57:13,597 that's listening to me, 1168 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:14,890 that I'm telling this one this, 1169 00:57:14,973 --> 00:57:16,558 I'm manipulating that one, and doing that. 1170 00:57:19,311 --> 00:57:21,063 This is the supreme message 1171 00:57:21,146 --> 00:57:23,398 the Eternal Values has for all of you. 1172 00:57:23,482 --> 00:57:25,359 If you can't love each other unconditionally, 1173 00:57:25,442 --> 00:57:26,860 you're all frauds. 1174 00:57:26,944 --> 00:57:28,779 In the Eternal Values, we are Jewish, Muslim, 1175 00:57:28,862 --> 00:57:30,322 Christian, Buddhist, and Hindu. 1176 00:57:30,405 --> 00:57:32,032 We all love each other and work together. 1177 00:57:32,115 --> 00:57:34,493 We're trying to tell you that you, too, can do it. 1178 00:57:34,910 --> 00:57:35,786 I mean... 1179 00:57:35,869 --> 00:57:37,037 that's what we have here. 1180 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:38,288 That's what we've got. 1181 00:57:38,372 --> 00:57:39,456 Total, total love. 1182 00:57:39,539 --> 00:57:41,124 And that's what we believed. 1183 00:57:41,208 --> 00:57:45,128 Freddy, I think, was very damaged. 1184 00:57:45,212 --> 00:57:47,381 And I don't think he understood love. 1185 00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:50,384 And because of that, there was a lot of carnage 1186 00:57:50,467 --> 00:57:51,969 that occurred around him. 1187 00:57:53,887 --> 00:57:56,890 But I can't go back and say, 1188 00:57:56,974 --> 00:57:59,309 oh, well, you know, they brainwashed me, 1189 00:57:59,393 --> 00:58:02,145 and, therefore, there's no fault on my end. 1190 00:58:02,229 --> 00:58:04,523 I'm still accountable for everything I said, 1191 00:58:04,606 --> 00:58:05,857 everything I did, 1192 00:58:05,941 --> 00:58:08,568 the abuses I either partook in 1193 00:58:08,652 --> 00:58:11,571 or stood by and did nothing as they happened. 1194 00:58:13,407 --> 00:58:15,325 You know, you carry a lot of shame, 1195 00:58:15,409 --> 00:58:17,577 and you carry a lot of embarrassment. 1196 00:58:17,661 --> 00:58:22,290 And I've learned that the antidote to shame 1197 00:58:22,374 --> 00:58:23,917 is... 1198 00:58:24,001 --> 00:58:26,378 vulnerability. 1199 00:58:26,461 --> 00:58:29,923 And the way you, you know, express that vulnerability 1200 00:58:30,007 --> 00:58:31,341 is to tell your story, 1201 00:58:31,425 --> 00:58:35,345 you know, and just own it and... 1202 00:58:35,429 --> 00:58:40,142 Warts and all, just tell the story. 1203 00:58:53,739 --> 00:58:57,743 We're playing those mind games 1204 00:58:57,826 --> 00:59:01,163 Together 1205 00:59:01,246 --> 00:59:04,750 Pushing the barrier 1206 00:59:04,833 --> 00:59:07,711 Planting seeds 1207 00:59:07,794 --> 00:59:12,382 Playing the mind games 1208 00:59:12,466 --> 00:59:15,761 Forever 1209 00:59:15,844 --> 00:59:19,181 Some kind of druid dude 1210 00:59:19,264 --> 00:59:23,185 Lifting the veil