1
00:00:13,805 --> 00:00:16,015
["Toxic" performed by 2WEI
playing]

2
00:00:16,140 --> 00:00:18,310
[reporter] It started
with a fight between lovers

3
00:00:18,435 --> 00:00:19,853
at a South Fourth Street home

4
00:00:19,937 --> 00:00:22,814
and ended with two men
charged with murder.

5
00:00:22,940 --> 00:00:25,651
[David] When the murder
of Jamie Carroll was uncovered,

6
00:00:25,776 --> 00:00:27,528
the story kind of just fell
in my lap.

7
00:00:27,653 --> 00:00:29,738
[reporter] Joseph Banis
is accused of killing

8
00:00:29,821 --> 00:00:32,491
James Carroll and burying
his body in his basement.

9
00:00:32,616 --> 00:00:36,036
[narrator] "In my head,
gears started to turn,

10
00:00:36,161 --> 00:00:38,163
slowly at first.

11
00:00:38,288 --> 00:00:40,040
Joseph Banis,

12
00:00:40,165 --> 00:00:42,042
Jeffrey Mundt,

13
00:00:42,167 --> 00:00:43,377
James Carroll."

14
00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:46,129
[reporter] Joseph Banis
is the first of two men

15
00:00:46,213 --> 00:00:48,423
to be tried
for Carroll's murder.

16
00:00:48,507 --> 00:00:50,926
[narrator] "Lovers' triangle.

17
00:00:51,009 --> 00:00:52,886
Body in the basement.

18
00:00:53,011 --> 00:00:54,972
Spooky old mansion.

19
00:00:55,055 --> 00:00:57,599
Revenge. Drugs.

20
00:00:57,683 --> 00:00:59,560
Kinky sex.

21
00:00:59,685 --> 00:01:01,770
You couldn't make
this stuff up."

22
00:01:01,853 --> 00:01:04,940
[reporter] Jury is expected to
hear closing arguments today.

23
00:01:05,022 --> 00:01:08,485
[Ryane] You are here to judge
the guilt of Joseph Banis,

24
00:01:08,569 --> 00:01:10,612
and Jeffrey Mundt
and Joseph Banis

25
00:01:10,696 --> 00:01:11,863
did this together.

26
00:01:11,989 --> 00:01:14,366
They acted in complicity
with each other

27
00:01:14,491 --> 00:01:16,285
to commit the murder
of Jamie Carroll.

28
00:01:16,368 --> 00:01:19,121
[Josh] Jamie Carroll
spent six months

29
00:01:19,204 --> 00:01:22,374
in a 50-gallon
Rubbermaid container.

30
00:01:22,457 --> 00:01:24,710
♪ Taste of your,
taste of your... ♪

31
00:01:24,835 --> 00:01:27,420
[narrator] "Would a verdict
make sense of it all?"

32
00:01:28,714 --> 00:01:32,968
♪ Baby, can't you see
I'm calling? ♪

33
00:01:33,051 --> 00:01:36,888
♪ A guy like you
should wear a warning ♪

34
00:01:37,014 --> 00:01:38,973
-[phone dialing]
-♪ It's dangerous ♪

35
00:01:39,057 --> 00:01:40,767
-[line ringing]
-♪ I'm falling ♪

36
00:01:40,892 --> 00:01:43,395
911 Operator Walker.
Where is your emergency?

37
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,689
[Jeffrey] My ex-boyfriend
is attacking me.

38
00:01:45,771 --> 00:01:49,401
♪ With a taste of your lips,
I'm on a ride ♪

39
00:01:49,526 --> 00:01:51,069
[Jeffrey] Can somebody help?

40
00:01:51,152 --> 00:01:53,822
♪ You're toxic,
I'm slippin' under ♪

41
00:01:53,905 --> 00:01:56,033
♪ With a taste
of a poison paradise ♪

42
00:01:56,116 --> 00:01:57,576
[Jeffrey] Please hurry.

43
00:01:57,658 --> 00:01:59,411
♪ I'm addicted to you ♪

44
00:01:59,494 --> 00:02:02,122
♪ Don't you know
that you're toxic? ♪

45
00:02:02,247 --> 00:02:04,583
[Jeffrey sobs] Please.

46
00:02:04,708 --> 00:02:06,001
[Walker] They're coming.

47
00:02:06,084 --> 00:02:07,586
♪ Taste of your... ♪

48
00:02:07,711 --> 00:02:09,463
[Jeffrey] I can't get rid
of him.

49
00:02:09,588 --> 00:02:12,591
["Toxic" performed by 2WEI
continues]

50
00:02:24,019 --> 00:02:25,520
[reporter] The jury
is getting ready

51
00:02:25,603 --> 00:02:27,147
to decide the fate
of a Louisville man

52
00:02:27,272 --> 00:02:29,900
who could get the death penalty
if convicted of murder.

53
00:02:29,983 --> 00:02:32,235
There's no indication yet
how long Mitch Perry

54
00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:35,614
will let the jurors go tonight.

55
00:02:35,739 --> 00:02:39,117
[Staci] Once we walked into
the jury room to deliberate,

56
00:02:39,242 --> 00:02:41,495
we talked into the night
up until about midnight.

57
00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:42,954
[reporter] Jurors deliberated

58
00:02:43,079 --> 00:02:44,831
murder suspect
Joseph Banis' fate

59
00:02:44,956 --> 00:02:47,000
for nine and a half hours
last night

60
00:02:47,125 --> 00:02:49,961
before the judge ordered them
sequestered overnight.

61
00:02:50,087 --> 00:02:54,049
It is an unusual situation
where a jury would go out

62
00:02:54,132 --> 00:02:56,301
and we would be here
late into the night,

63
00:02:56,426 --> 00:02:58,637
to the point where we had
to come back the next day.

64
00:02:58,762 --> 00:03:01,306
[Staci] I think we essentially
all agreed like from the start.

65
00:03:01,431 --> 00:03:03,141
[tense music playing]

66
00:03:03,266 --> 00:03:07,020
I feel like Jeff Mundt
was more the mastermind.

67
00:03:07,145 --> 00:03:09,690
A lot of us believed
that it was Jeffrey

68
00:03:09,773 --> 00:03:11,525
that was more guilty.

69
00:03:13,485 --> 00:03:15,654
[reporter] After it seems like
we've been stuck in the clouds

70
00:03:15,779 --> 00:03:17,989
forever, sunshine
out there this morning,

71
00:03:18,115 --> 00:03:19,658
it's gonna last all day.

72
00:03:19,783 --> 00:03:21,493
Good morning, I'm John Boel
with some breaking news.

73
00:03:21,618 --> 00:03:23,745
We wanna take you live downtown
right now to the courthouse

74
00:03:23,829 --> 00:03:25,329
where we're about to get
a verdict

75
00:03:25,454 --> 00:03:28,083
in the murder case
of Joseph Banis.

76
00:03:28,166 --> 00:03:30,210
Judge is speaking right now
so let's listen in.

77
00:03:30,293 --> 00:03:32,295
[Perry] I was told you have
a verdict, Mr. Foreperson.

78
00:03:32,379 --> 00:03:34,005
-Is that true?
-Yes, Your Honor.

79
00:03:34,131 --> 00:03:36,716
Alright. If you could hand the
jury sheets to Sheriff Brown.

80
00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:39,052
Mr. Banis, if you'd please rise.

81
00:03:43,055 --> 00:03:45,350
"Under verdict instruction
number one,

82
00:03:46,143 --> 00:03:48,061
we the jury found
the defendant, Joseph Banis,

83
00:03:48,186 --> 00:03:49,855
guilty under instruction
number one."

84
00:03:51,189 --> 00:03:53,400
[solemn music playing]

85
00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:58,697
[Brown] It's against the rule
but I let them hug there.

86
00:03:59,156 --> 00:04:02,576
I mean, if a guy going for life,
what the heck?

87
00:04:02,701 --> 00:04:05,370
This might be his last time
seeing his parents.

88
00:04:08,665 --> 00:04:11,293
[Staci] If we had had
both of them on trial together,

89
00:04:11,376 --> 00:04:14,212
our jury would've found
them both guilty.

90
00:04:15,255 --> 00:04:16,923
Absolutely, 100%.

91
00:04:21,052 --> 00:04:22,888
[gentle music playing]

92
00:04:24,347 --> 00:04:25,807
[man] "Dearest Kevin.

93
00:04:29,728 --> 00:04:31,271
I just got my photos back

94
00:04:31,396 --> 00:04:33,732
and decided to send you one
along with this card

95
00:04:33,857 --> 00:04:35,942
to let you know
I've been thinking of you."

96
00:04:40,530 --> 00:04:42,407
Joey Banis was
my first boyfriend.

97
00:04:43,116 --> 00:04:44,701
He writes letters to me

98
00:04:44,784 --> 00:04:45,827
every single day.

99
00:04:46,870 --> 00:04:48,371
"I still sometimes worry

100
00:04:48,455 --> 00:04:51,416
that you won't want to be
my friend in the long term."

101
00:04:51,541 --> 00:04:53,043
This goes on for years.

102
00:04:53,126 --> 00:04:54,711
I have shoeboxes
full of letters,

103
00:04:54,795 --> 00:04:56,463
like cards from him,
all handwritten.

104
00:04:57,464 --> 00:04:59,382
He used to always finish it
with a peace sign,

105
00:04:59,466 --> 00:05:01,426
a heart sign,
and a smiley face.

106
00:05:01,551 --> 00:05:03,428
"Peace, love, happiness, Joey."

107
00:05:05,806 --> 00:05:07,891
So this is the first photograph
I ever took with Joey.

108
00:05:07,974 --> 00:05:09,392
This is when we fell in love.

109
00:05:09,476 --> 00:05:11,144
[music fades]

110
00:05:11,228 --> 00:05:13,772
A drag queen once told us,
"You look like bookends."

111
00:05:17,484 --> 00:05:19,611
I met him
on a rainy November night

112
00:05:19,736 --> 00:05:21,196
in a bank parking lot.

113
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,490
-[rain pattering]
-[wipers swipe]

114
00:05:23,615 --> 00:05:26,868
I'll never forget
his face though, like,

115
00:05:26,952 --> 00:05:28,912
just the first time I saw him
through the car window.

116
00:05:28,995 --> 00:05:32,624
Just like that slow looking
over, like, "Is this him?"

117
00:05:34,626 --> 00:05:36,461
And we were sitting in a car,
'cause that's--

118
00:05:36,586 --> 00:05:38,338
our relationship
was limited to that,

119
00:05:38,421 --> 00:05:40,632
'cause he lived with his parents
and I lived with my parents,

120
00:05:40,757 --> 00:05:42,092
like, where were we
supposed to go?

121
00:05:42,175 --> 00:05:43,760
So every night
we would just sit in a car

122
00:05:43,844 --> 00:05:45,303
and just talk for hours.

123
00:05:45,428 --> 00:05:47,681
[John] Remember,
don't mail it in, bring it in

124
00:05:47,806 --> 00:05:49,224
and get your cash today!

125
00:05:49,307 --> 00:05:51,058
[Kevin] He was very intelligent
and that was something

126
00:05:51,142 --> 00:05:52,269
that was
really important to me.

127
00:05:52,352 --> 00:05:54,145
Could carry
a conversation and...

128
00:05:54,271 --> 00:05:56,606
from an amazing, you know,
from a really good family

129
00:05:56,690 --> 00:05:59,192
and with a, you know,
a great pedigree.

130
00:06:00,694 --> 00:06:04,573
We decided we wanted to get
our own place.

131
00:06:05,782 --> 00:06:07,367
We found
this cute little apartment

132
00:06:07,492 --> 00:06:09,244
down on First Street.

133
00:06:09,327 --> 00:06:11,705
There were no closets
in that apartment.

134
00:06:11,830 --> 00:06:13,665
The joke was, "Well,
we just came out of the closet,

135
00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:16,209
so I guess we don't need them
anymore." [laughs]

136
00:06:17,294 --> 00:06:18,712
[reporter]
Louisville broke the record

137
00:06:18,795 --> 00:06:22,465
for an all-time low temperature
of minus 22 degrees.

138
00:06:22,549 --> 00:06:25,802
One year Louisville got hit
with a huge snowstorm.

139
00:06:25,886 --> 00:06:28,263
We couldn't even go to work.
Businesses were shut down.

140
00:06:28,346 --> 00:06:30,140
It was awesome for us.
You know,

141
00:06:30,223 --> 00:06:32,392
be snowed in like kids
in snow day in school.

142
00:06:32,517 --> 00:06:34,311
[heater buzzing]

143
00:06:34,394 --> 00:06:37,147
We, you know, started,
you know, talking about things

144
00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:40,150
and... smoking weed.

145
00:06:40,233 --> 00:06:41,234
[burning]

146
00:06:41,359 --> 00:06:43,695
He told me his story.

147
00:06:44,487 --> 00:06:48,199
And his story was,
he had spent time in jail.

148
00:06:48,742 --> 00:06:49,826
He was a Deadhead.

149
00:06:49,909 --> 00:06:51,453
He followed
the Grateful Dead around.

150
00:06:51,536 --> 00:06:54,039
And they found some like LSD
in the car and he had a gun.

151
00:06:54,164 --> 00:06:55,790
And I was like,
"Wow, a gun. Like that's...

152
00:06:55,874 --> 00:06:58,043
Why would you-- why would
someone need a gun?"

153
00:06:58,168 --> 00:07:00,795
But whatever. I was like,
I don't-- I didn't care.

154
00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:02,380
You know, like, "I-I love you.

155
00:07:02,505 --> 00:07:04,716
It's alright, people-people
make mistakes, right?

156
00:07:04,841 --> 00:07:06,468
Now, you-- let's just,
let's move on.

157
00:07:06,551 --> 00:07:07,802
Let's move, let's move forward."

158
00:07:07,886 --> 00:07:09,429
[solemn music playing]

159
00:07:09,512 --> 00:07:11,348
And then from there,
it was, "Hey, like,

160
00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:13,016
have you ever done LSD?"

161
00:07:13,099 --> 00:07:14,768
And this is when I started
to realize, like,

162
00:07:14,893 --> 00:07:18,188
he doesn't have the switch
that people have

163
00:07:18,271 --> 00:07:19,940
of like, enough is enough.

164
00:07:21,191 --> 00:07:23,276
One day,
it was on Father's Day,

165
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,904
we did some LSD
and I was feeling good.

166
00:07:27,530 --> 00:07:29,199
We start-- he starts
this argument, right?

167
00:07:29,282 --> 00:07:31,076
[snaps fingers]
He immediately gets angry.

168
00:07:31,201 --> 00:07:33,411
He just reaches down
and picks up a piece of glass

169
00:07:33,536 --> 00:07:34,913
and shoves it in my arm.

170
00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:36,831
He goes, "You see what
you made me do?"

171
00:07:36,915 --> 00:07:40,085
And I'm like, "Holy shit!"

172
00:07:41,211 --> 00:07:43,630
And so I'm bleeding

173
00:07:43,713 --> 00:07:46,424
and I very calmly just get up
and I walk outta the apartment.

174
00:07:46,549 --> 00:07:48,593
I walk next door and knock
on the neighbor's door.

175
00:07:48,718 --> 00:07:51,262
And the girl, she opens the door
and says, "Damn."

176
00:07:51,388 --> 00:07:53,139
I said, "Would you call
the police please?"

177
00:07:54,933 --> 00:07:56,267
So...

178
00:07:57,060 --> 00:07:58,645
I get him kicked out...

179
00:07:59,604 --> 00:08:02,273
[laughs] ...and that fucker
moves in next door.

180
00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:04,818
[light, suspenseful music
playing]

181
00:08:07,278 --> 00:08:08,363
It was scary.

182
00:08:08,446 --> 00:08:10,156
[music fades]

183
00:08:16,830 --> 00:08:19,874
[eerie music playing]

184
00:08:26,965 --> 00:08:28,633
[David] This is
the Victorian Ghost Walk.

185
00:08:28,758 --> 00:08:30,927
It's a once-a-year,
annual event.

186
00:08:31,469 --> 00:08:34,889
People in Victorian attire
and-and period costume

187
00:08:34,972 --> 00:08:37,808
are staged to come alive
as the spirits.

188
00:08:42,022 --> 00:08:44,983
I'm gonna sweat a lot of it off,
I can tell already.

189
00:08:45,108 --> 00:08:46,901
[woman laughs]

190
00:08:46,985 --> 00:08:49,029
It looks good in the beard,
for sure.

191
00:08:52,115 --> 00:08:54,492
[narrator] "Because of
the sensational murder trial,

192
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,746
more people wanted to come see
the neighborhood

193
00:08:57,829 --> 00:09:00,749
in spite
of its sullied reputation."

194
00:09:00,832 --> 00:09:03,918
Louisville is
an extremely spirited place--

195
00:09:04,002 --> 00:09:06,087
spirited with bourbon

196
00:09:06,171 --> 00:09:10,925
and spirited around here
with a lot of ghostly figures.

197
00:09:12,052 --> 00:09:13,803
[Kim] I do believe in ghosts.

198
00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:16,347
So many people have lived
and died in these houses.

199
00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:19,476
[Maria] People have said
that they have seen

200
00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,770
ghostly figures walking
through my house.

201
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,607
So many people have been laid
in the front parlor

202
00:09:25,690 --> 00:09:26,900
for three days.

203
00:09:27,025 --> 00:09:28,860
I think there were some sad,
sad things

204
00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:30,945
that happened
in those front rooms.

205
00:09:31,029 --> 00:09:33,948
[Maria] My husband
passed away in this house.

206
00:09:34,032 --> 00:09:37,035
I found him lying on the floor.

207
00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,953
I felt like somebody
was pinching me,

208
00:09:39,037 --> 00:09:40,663
which sounds so crazy.

209
00:09:40,747 --> 00:09:43,124
But, uh, that's what
he would've done,

210
00:09:43,208 --> 00:09:44,834
just kind of aggravated me.

211
00:09:45,376 --> 00:09:46,878
[Debra] My house
had a ghost in it.

212
00:09:47,003 --> 00:09:49,047
My cat was the only one
who could see it.

213
00:09:49,172 --> 00:09:50,590
[cat purring]

214
00:09:50,673 --> 00:09:52,717
I never saw it.
She was the only one who saw it.

215
00:09:52,842 --> 00:09:54,803
But it was always
the same place,

216
00:09:54,886 --> 00:09:58,306
the same setup,
the same time of day.

217
00:09:58,389 --> 00:10:00,266
It was there.
It was definitely there.

218
00:10:00,350 --> 00:10:03,436
'Cause she would just walk
in the room and sit down and...

219
00:10:03,561 --> 00:10:06,898
[raspy meowing]

220
00:10:11,569 --> 00:10:13,488
There's a ghost here.
There's one back here,

221
00:10:13,571 --> 00:10:14,614
freaked out her brother.

222
00:10:16,908 --> 00:10:17,992
The woman.

223
00:10:18,701 --> 00:10:20,411
This used to be a brothel
back here.

224
00:10:20,537 --> 00:10:22,205
-That's what the landlord says.
-I think it's a rat.

225
00:10:22,288 --> 00:10:23,373
-I don't think it's a ghost.
-No.

226
00:10:23,456 --> 00:10:24,749
The landlord talked about it
years ago.

227
00:10:24,874 --> 00:10:26,251
Supposedly it's a woman.

228
00:10:26,376 --> 00:10:28,086
That's what her brother said.

229
00:10:29,379 --> 00:10:31,548
[guide] Gather around me,
you see,

230
00:10:31,631 --> 00:10:34,259
she will only speak to all of us

231
00:10:34,384 --> 00:10:36,594
when she sees the near of thee.

232
00:10:36,719 --> 00:10:39,472
[David] Every 15 minutes,
starting at six o'clock,

233
00:10:39,597 --> 00:10:42,225
a group of 35 to 40 people
leaves with a guide.

234
00:10:42,308 --> 00:10:45,103
The baby's dead.
She's not asleep.

235
00:10:45,228 --> 00:10:47,021
These are not
professional actors.

236
00:10:47,105 --> 00:10:50,024
The reaper comes
for souls to keep.

237
00:10:50,108 --> 00:10:52,193
[shrieking laugh]

238
00:10:52,277 --> 00:10:54,863
Sometimes it's their first
acting gig ever.

239
00:10:54,946 --> 00:10:57,699
Let the dead come alive!

240
00:10:57,782 --> 00:10:59,909
[David] The darker it gets,
the spookier it gets,

241
00:10:59,993 --> 00:11:01,119
and more witches come out.

242
00:11:01,244 --> 00:11:03,580
Double, double toil and trouble.

243
00:11:03,663 --> 00:11:06,166
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

244
00:11:06,291 --> 00:11:09,210
[witches cackling]

245
00:11:10,253 --> 00:11:13,173
[David] My paranormal friends,
they think one of the reasons

246
00:11:13,298 --> 00:11:15,466
that this is such a haunted
neighborhood is the fact

247
00:11:15,592 --> 00:11:18,261
that we have so much stone
and brick construction,

248
00:11:18,344 --> 00:11:21,389
'cause they retain energy,
they retain images better

249
00:11:21,472 --> 00:11:24,893
than light, airy, uh,
wooden constructions would.

250
00:11:25,351 --> 00:11:28,771
Louisville is America's
most haunted neighborhood

251
00:11:28,855 --> 00:11:30,940
because when you have
a tour guide

252
00:11:31,024 --> 00:11:35,445
telling ghost stories
three and four times a night,

253
00:11:35,528 --> 00:11:38,823
the more you say their name,
the more energy you feed 'em,

254
00:11:38,948 --> 00:11:42,035
the more you're lifting
their-their soul

255
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,162
and their essence, so to speak.

256
00:11:45,872 --> 00:11:49,334
Well, last year they asked me
to play Annie Whipple.

257
00:11:49,459 --> 00:11:54,714
"'Dr. Anderson!
Dr. Anderson!' I implored."

258
00:11:54,839 --> 00:11:57,133
Two doors down,
they say a ghost

259
00:11:57,217 --> 00:11:59,761
of a governess
they call Annie Whipple

260
00:11:59,844 --> 00:12:02,180
walks up and down
the staircase.

261
00:12:03,014 --> 00:12:05,642
"And so..." [breathing shakily]

262
00:12:05,725 --> 00:12:07,560
"...my head drooped

263
00:12:07,685 --> 00:12:11,397
and my hand
dipped its pen in ink

264
00:12:11,481 --> 00:12:15,735
and scrawled the message
across the page.

265
00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:17,779
And when I awoke,

266
00:12:17,862 --> 00:12:22,617
the chilling words before me
on the page said,

267
00:12:23,826 --> 00:12:28,748
'You fool!
I am not Dr. Anderson!'"

268
00:12:31,501 --> 00:12:36,172
But I wanna make sure
that I do her justice

269
00:12:36,256 --> 00:12:38,925
because I only live
a block from her.

270
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:42,637
-[tense music playing]
-[indistinct chatter]

271
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,306
[David] It's been suggested
that we have someone stationed

272
00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:47,267
in front of the murder house

273
00:12:47,392 --> 00:12:50,103
dragging, uh,
a blue Rubbermaid tote

274
00:12:50,228 --> 00:12:52,689
between the two of them.

275
00:12:53,231 --> 00:12:56,109
But we think it's
a little too soon to go there.

276
00:12:56,693 --> 00:12:58,486
[Angelique] When I moved in
across the street

277
00:12:58,569 --> 00:13:01,572
from the murder house,
I was taking a lot of baths.

278
00:13:01,698 --> 00:13:05,285
I had an awesome clawfoot tub
I spent a lot of time in.

279
00:13:05,410 --> 00:13:07,620
-[drips echoing]
-[water rippling]

280
00:13:10,248 --> 00:13:13,668
I started noticing a figure
walking back and forth

281
00:13:13,751 --> 00:13:15,586
in front of the windows.

282
00:13:15,712 --> 00:13:18,006
And so I thought,
"Oh," maybe at first,

283
00:13:18,089 --> 00:13:20,258
"this is somebody sneaking
into that house."

284
00:13:20,383 --> 00:13:23,303
But I kept seeing that person
in the window.

285
00:13:23,428 --> 00:13:26,848
Sometimes their hair is long,
sometimes their hair is short,

286
00:13:26,931 --> 00:13:31,102
and after a while I realized,
that person's not alive.

287
00:13:31,227 --> 00:13:33,771
[suspenseful music playing]

288
00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:35,315
I drew a sketch,

289
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:36,941
I put it on my Instagram,

290
00:13:37,066 --> 00:13:39,068
and I said, "Yeah,

291
00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:41,821
I think that's
Jamie Carroll's ghost

292
00:13:41,946 --> 00:13:44,032
trying to get my attention."

293
00:13:51,998 --> 00:13:53,665
[narrator]
"I wanted to piece together

294
00:13:53,790 --> 00:13:56,461
a more complete portrait
of Jamie Carroll.

295
00:13:56,586 --> 00:13:58,463
He had lived and worked
for a while

296
00:13:58,588 --> 00:14:00,006
in Paintsville, Kentucky,

297
00:14:00,131 --> 00:14:01,883
where he ran a hair salon."

298
00:14:01,966 --> 00:14:03,217
[music fades]

299
00:14:03,301 --> 00:14:06,220
[Nick] Jamie was just
a great person.

300
00:14:06,804 --> 00:14:08,639
Jamie would give you
the shirt off his back

301
00:14:08,765 --> 00:14:10,641
and not expect anything
in return.

302
00:14:11,434 --> 00:14:13,353
[Michelle] He was a mommy's boy.

303
00:14:13,478 --> 00:14:14,896
He made sure Mom had groceries.

304
00:14:14,979 --> 00:14:17,732
You know, he-he made sure
that Mom was taken care of.

305
00:14:17,815 --> 00:14:20,109
[Diana] He would stop by
and see me.

306
00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:22,570
He always did come by
and see me.

307
00:14:22,653 --> 00:14:26,324
Sometimes I could tell
he was not himself.

308
00:14:26,449 --> 00:14:27,742
He was...

309
00:14:29,994 --> 00:14:32,205
He was just-- he was...

310
00:14:32,330 --> 00:14:35,290
I better not say that,
but he was...

311
00:14:35,375 --> 00:14:37,585
he was not himself.

312
00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:40,505
Maybe drugs or whatever.

313
00:14:41,464 --> 00:14:43,841
[Michelle] The name
of Jamie's shop was Illusions.

314
00:14:45,176 --> 00:14:47,178
We was there a lot at night
'cause, you know,

315
00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:49,555
Jamie did a lot
of his secret business there,

316
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,141
you know, making his money
on the side there.

317
00:14:52,225 --> 00:14:55,144
His international house
of business.

318
00:14:55,228 --> 00:14:56,562
[both laugh]

319
00:14:56,687 --> 00:14:59,023
[suspenseful music playing]

320
00:14:59,148 --> 00:15:01,150
[liquid bubbling, sloshing]

321
00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:03,861
He would mix
all kinds of powder

322
00:15:04,737 --> 00:15:05,988
besides hair chemical.

323
00:15:06,072 --> 00:15:07,407
-[chuckles]
-I tell you,

324
00:15:07,532 --> 00:15:09,117
he was our coke and meth dealer.

325
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,035
I mean, I can tell you
from experience of me,

326
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,287
you know, I was addicted
to meth for many years.

327
00:15:13,371 --> 00:15:16,040
Started doing meth and coke,

328
00:15:16,165 --> 00:15:19,252
15, 14-year-old,
and with Jamie, you know,

329
00:15:19,377 --> 00:15:20,837
Tyloxes, smoking weed,

330
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,256
doing ecstasy,
whatever I could get with him.

331
00:15:23,381 --> 00:15:25,716
Oh yeah, we've partied together.
We've...

332
00:15:25,842 --> 00:15:28,803
we've been stupid.
I've been a stupid mother, but--

333
00:15:28,886 --> 00:15:31,722
Not really a stupid mother.
She was a fun mother.

334
00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:35,768
[Michelle] But when I
would party with Jamie,

335
00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:39,564
I would carry around his little
bag of his stash, whatever,

336
00:15:39,689 --> 00:15:41,190
and I would sell it for him.

337
00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:42,567
They'd be like, "Gimme a 10."

338
00:15:42,692 --> 00:15:44,277
And I'd give 'em
a little $10 bag or whatever.

339
00:15:44,402 --> 00:15:46,028
He used to have
those cute little meth bags

340
00:15:46,112 --> 00:15:48,322
that had little cherries on 'em.
You knew they were Jamie's.

341
00:15:48,406 --> 00:15:50,199
You'd find one laying around
in Paintsville, empty,

342
00:15:50,283 --> 00:15:51,617
and you'd say, "That's Jamie's."

343
00:15:52,368 --> 00:15:54,287
[Michelle] He'd tell people
when we first walked in,

344
00:15:54,412 --> 00:15:56,330
"This is my fag hag.
You don't mess with her,

345
00:15:56,414 --> 00:15:58,458
and everything's okay."
He had your back.

346
00:15:58,540 --> 00:16:00,835
You were protected
when you was with Jamie.

347
00:16:00,918 --> 00:16:02,628
[Nick] Around here,
Jamie was a protector.

348
00:16:02,712 --> 00:16:05,089
He was a provider,
but he had to get away from here

349
00:16:05,214 --> 00:16:06,591
to make all the money

350
00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:08,593
that he brought back
into this place.

351
00:16:08,718 --> 00:16:10,678
He thought that's the only way
he would get accepted,

352
00:16:10,761 --> 00:16:12,847
when he got here,
was to provide for people.

353
00:16:14,307 --> 00:16:16,476
[Erika] It started with coke,

354
00:16:16,601 --> 00:16:19,437
and, Lord, it flowed like

355
00:16:19,562 --> 00:16:22,315
snow in the Alps there.

356
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,067
[dramatic electronic music
playing]

357
00:16:25,151 --> 00:16:28,362
Someone introduced Jamie
to crack,

358
00:16:28,446 --> 00:16:30,740
and that's when
it went downhill.

359
00:16:30,823 --> 00:16:33,201
Jamie lost the salon.
Jamie lost the house.

360
00:16:33,284 --> 00:16:35,995
Jamie lost... Jamie lost Jamie.

361
00:16:36,746 --> 00:16:41,000
And then it went
to methamphetamine.

362
00:16:41,459 --> 00:16:45,671
That's the last thing I know
that he sold. [sighs]

363
00:16:48,174 --> 00:16:51,135
I can remember Jamie
coming to visit me once

364
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:52,345
in my apartment

365
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:54,388
and... [chuckles]

366
00:16:55,181 --> 00:16:57,350
I look over
and Jamie's in the floor

367
00:16:57,475 --> 00:16:59,268
and I said,
"What are you doing?

368
00:16:59,352 --> 00:17:00,686
Get up."

369
00:17:02,438 --> 00:17:04,272
He said, "Bitch, I can't.

370
00:17:04,357 --> 00:17:05,441
I'm high."

371
00:17:05,525 --> 00:17:07,193
I said, "On what?"

372
00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:12,323
I said, "Bitch,
you're smoking cat litter."

373
00:17:12,448 --> 00:17:15,785
She said, "Dude, your cat shits
rocks, girl, okay," she said.

374
00:17:15,867 --> 00:17:17,244
[Erika laughs]

375
00:17:17,328 --> 00:17:19,288
[Nick] The meth that was around
back then was stuff

376
00:17:19,372 --> 00:17:21,040
that you had to go away
from here and get,

377
00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:22,959
so the town hadn't seen
the stuff like that.

378
00:17:23,041 --> 00:17:24,126
Only the gay community.

379
00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:26,170
They call it
high speed chicken feed,

380
00:17:26,295 --> 00:17:28,339
because around here,
you know, everybody on it,

381
00:17:28,464 --> 00:17:30,091
it's just high speed
when they're on it.

382
00:17:30,174 --> 00:17:31,968
-How do you explain it?
-That's about it.

383
00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:34,679
Sums it up. You can--
you can do it all, and for days.

384
00:17:34,804 --> 00:17:37,348
There's no rest.
You don't need no rest.

385
00:17:38,349 --> 00:17:40,893
It kind of decreases
your inhibitions.

386
00:17:40,977 --> 00:17:44,772
It lets you put what you feel is
your best foot forward,

387
00:17:44,855 --> 00:17:47,650
which it may not be, you know.
[chuckles]

388
00:17:47,733 --> 00:17:50,361
And that was what
the crystal meth of that time

389
00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:52,530
really done and took it--

390
00:17:52,655 --> 00:17:53,990
That's how it took a hold

391
00:17:54,073 --> 00:17:56,075
of the small communities
around here.

392
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:57,702
[dramatic music playing]

393
00:17:57,827 --> 00:18:00,246
This would be 13 and a half
pounds of meth,

394
00:18:00,871 --> 00:18:03,374
almost enough to fill
a giant bag of cat food.

395
00:18:03,457 --> 00:18:04,792
[reporter 2] The drug epidemic

396
00:18:04,875 --> 00:18:07,044
reaching every corner
of Louisville.

397
00:18:07,169 --> 00:18:09,839
The biggest meth bust
in the city's history.

398
00:18:09,922 --> 00:18:12,550
[reporter 2]
Over 34 pounds of meth.

399
00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:15,469
[Hurricane] What happened was
crystal meth came in,

400
00:18:15,553 --> 00:18:17,388
then the scene changed.

401
00:18:18,264 --> 00:18:21,058
[Mykul] I can always tell when,
uh, someone's doing meth.

402
00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:23,311
Their eyes are darting a lot.

403
00:18:23,394 --> 00:18:25,187
They move-- twitch a lot,
move a lot.

404
00:18:25,271 --> 00:18:27,565
Very "tweaky," is the word,
a tweak.

405
00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:28,899
They tweak a lot.

406
00:18:30,234 --> 00:18:33,821
[Hurricane] We used to call, uh,
crystal meth was called Tina,

407
00:18:34,405 --> 00:18:36,824
because Tina Turner's
very popular

408
00:18:36,907 --> 00:18:38,659
and she would...
[dramatic vocalizations]

409
00:18:38,743 --> 00:18:40,953
You know, so we call it Tina.

410
00:18:41,078 --> 00:18:42,496
"Are we gonna do some Tina?"

411
00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:44,457
"Yeah, I... yeah, I think
I'm gonna do some Tina tonight.

412
00:18:44,582 --> 00:18:46,959
I'll be alright, I'll be--
I'll be-- I'll be fine."

413
00:18:47,084 --> 00:18:48,419
You know. [laughs]

414
00:18:48,544 --> 00:18:50,212
You can tell by the teeth...

415
00:18:50,296 --> 00:18:52,465
[laughs]
...how the decay in the teeth

416
00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:54,800
and things like that
from using meth.

417
00:18:54,925 --> 00:18:56,510
They chew on their cheek.

418
00:18:56,594 --> 00:18:59,221
Crystal meth made
your inhibitions go away

419
00:18:59,305 --> 00:19:01,015
and-and people were like,

420
00:19:01,098 --> 00:19:03,309
"Yeah, I can take on
the world," you know?

421
00:19:03,434 --> 00:19:04,769
And a lot of times it meant,

422
00:19:04,894 --> 00:19:07,063
"Yeah, I could take on
the world."

423
00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:09,357
-[hissing]
-[bubbling]

424
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,859
-[lighter clicks]
-[solemn music playing]

425
00:19:21,327 --> 00:19:23,496
...I wanted to get high
and have sex.

426
00:19:23,621 --> 00:19:27,792
And so I got online and, um,
me and Jamie hooked up.

427
00:19:33,130 --> 00:19:35,383
He came over to the hotel room
that I was at,

428
00:19:35,466 --> 00:19:40,179
and we had sex on like
15 ounces of crystal meth

429
00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:43,891
and, uh, had a blast.

430
00:19:45,601 --> 00:19:50,648
During that time,
I also met Jase online, um,

431
00:19:50,773 --> 00:19:54,276
late night, after clubbing, um,

432
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,905
messaged each other
off of Adam4Adam.

433
00:19:57,988 --> 00:20:01,200
He and I were both high
on crystal meth.

434
00:20:01,701 --> 00:20:04,161
The first time Joey and I met,
we did drugs,

435
00:20:04,286 --> 00:20:07,164
which was very exciting
sexually.

436
00:20:07,665 --> 00:20:10,376
He loved, loved, loved

437
00:20:10,501 --> 00:20:14,630
latex, rubber, gear,
forced chemicals, bondage,

438
00:20:14,714 --> 00:20:17,842
all things that were new to me
that he got me to try.

439
00:20:18,718 --> 00:20:21,011
-[notification whooshes]
-[typing]

440
00:20:29,812 --> 00:20:32,398
I don't know the best way
to describe it, but it makes--

441
00:20:32,523 --> 00:20:34,775
it basically makes you
incredibly horny.

442
00:20:35,651 --> 00:20:37,486
He was into bondage

443
00:20:37,570 --> 00:20:39,947
and I liked having threesomes.

444
00:20:45,494 --> 00:20:46,579
[notification chimes]

445
00:21:01,343 --> 00:21:05,556
That's how Jamie, Jase, and I
ended up having that three-way.

446
00:21:14,106 --> 00:21:16,609
I guess you probably would hear
a lot of people say this,

447
00:21:16,692 --> 00:21:19,069
but, like, I don't have
a problem being high

448
00:21:19,195 --> 00:21:21,697
and, like, knowing
what's going on.

449
00:21:22,531 --> 00:21:24,742
Jeffrey Mundt was one
of those people

450
00:21:24,867 --> 00:21:27,620
who absolutely loses touch
with reality,

451
00:21:27,745 --> 00:21:30,831
um, being high
on crystal meth.

452
00:21:33,417 --> 00:21:37,797
Jase is having a,
I guess, toxic reaction

453
00:21:37,922 --> 00:21:40,883
to something he ate
or not being able to eat.

454
00:21:40,966 --> 00:21:43,135
See, he's passed out in the bed

455
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:45,346
after trying to clean up
the room.

456
00:21:47,973 --> 00:21:50,976
["White Horse"
by Laid Back playing]

457
00:21:51,101 --> 00:21:52,353
[bell dings]

458
00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:55,397
[announcer] They're off
in the Kentucky Derby!

459
00:21:55,481 --> 00:21:56,774
♪ If you wanna ride ♪

460
00:21:56,857 --> 00:21:59,193
[reporter] Attorneys deliver
opening arguments

461
00:21:59,276 --> 00:22:01,320
in a love triangle
murder case.

462
00:22:01,403 --> 00:22:04,114
[narrator] "In May,
right after the Kentucky Derby,

463
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,116
Jeffrey Mundt stood trial.

464
00:22:06,784 --> 00:22:09,161
Joey Banis
had already been found guilty

465
00:22:09,286 --> 00:22:10,746
for the murder
of Jamie Carroll."

466
00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:12,414
[reporter 2]
Accused killer Jeffrey Mundt

467
00:22:12,498 --> 00:22:13,916
scheduled to be in court today.

468
00:22:14,792 --> 00:22:16,794
[narrator] "Once again,
Judge Mitch Perry

469
00:22:16,919 --> 00:22:18,504
presided in the courtroom,

470
00:22:18,587 --> 00:22:22,091
and familiar figures sat at
the table for the prosecution."

471
00:22:22,174 --> 00:22:25,344
[Josh] Three men entered,
two men leave.

472
00:22:26,345 --> 00:22:27,930
[narrator]
"But the defense team had

473
00:22:28,013 --> 00:22:29,723
a markedly different makeup."

474
00:22:29,807 --> 00:22:32,226
What he just told you is a lie
and you'll know it.

475
00:22:32,309 --> 00:22:34,270
[narrator]
"Dramatically, Romines went

476
00:22:34,353 --> 00:22:36,146
to the Rubbermaid storage bin

477
00:22:36,272 --> 00:22:38,023
and rolled it to the side

478
00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:39,608
as if to convey to the jury

479
00:22:39,692 --> 00:22:42,820
that he and everybody else
recognized it

480
00:22:42,945 --> 00:22:44,572
as a cheap gimmick."

481
00:22:44,655 --> 00:22:46,740
It's easy to defend a case

482
00:22:46,824 --> 00:22:50,244
when your defense is the truth.

483
00:22:50,327 --> 00:22:53,247
We'll prove to you
before this trial is over,

484
00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:55,332
Jeff Mundt is innocent.

485
00:22:55,457 --> 00:22:57,668
I know Steve
from some of the cases

486
00:22:57,793 --> 00:23:00,671
he-he has in my courtroom.
I call him "Big Money."

487
00:23:00,796 --> 00:23:02,423
[laughs] Yes.

488
00:23:02,506 --> 00:23:06,343
[Ryane] Steve Romines
is one of the more well-paid,

489
00:23:06,468 --> 00:23:09,346
well-known
criminal defense attorneys.

490
00:23:09,471 --> 00:23:12,516
There are certain type of cases
that I prefer not to take.

491
00:23:12,641 --> 00:23:15,394
The first is, and, you know,

492
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:17,605
this is a sad reality how it is,

493
00:23:17,688 --> 00:23:20,524
can they afford to defend
the case properly?

494
00:23:20,649 --> 00:23:21,817
He wins a lot.

495
00:23:21,901 --> 00:23:23,777
Jeff Mundt is innocent

496
00:23:23,861 --> 00:23:26,363
and we'll prove to you
that they know it.

497
00:23:27,239 --> 00:23:30,367
He acts exactly like a very
high-priced lawyer should act.

498
00:23:30,492 --> 00:23:32,745
They have had the evidence
in their hands

499
00:23:32,870 --> 00:23:35,998
and they have either ignored it,
they have disregarded it,

500
00:23:36,081 --> 00:23:37,875
or they have hidden it.

501
00:23:38,375 --> 00:23:40,753
Doesn't come
any more theatrical than that.

502
00:23:40,878 --> 00:23:42,463
That's what
you're paying him for.

503
00:23:42,546 --> 00:23:43,881
You're gonna get
the whole truth.

504
00:23:44,006 --> 00:23:45,883
In fact, you're gonna start it
this afternoon.

505
00:23:46,842 --> 00:23:49,011
Joey Banis's own words.

506
00:23:49,094 --> 00:23:50,554
Let's hear 'em.

507
00:23:51,555 --> 00:23:53,849
I'm recording my death
for the purpose

508
00:23:53,933 --> 00:23:56,769
of informing all informed--
or all concerned

509
00:23:56,894 --> 00:23:58,437
of my own willful suicide

510
00:23:58,562 --> 00:24:02,483
and the complete non-involvement
or culpability of anyone else,

511
00:24:02,566 --> 00:24:05,945
specifically of my boyfriend,
lover, life partner, and friend,

512
00:24:06,070 --> 00:24:07,947
my one, Jeffrey Steven Mundt.

513
00:24:09,114 --> 00:24:13,118
[Steve] We felt like that was
the single most powerful piece

514
00:24:13,243 --> 00:24:14,954
of evidence in the entire case.

515
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:17,581
-[exhales]
-[solemn, tense music playing]

516
00:24:18,958 --> 00:24:20,960
This includes killing someone.

517
00:24:21,961 --> 00:24:23,545
It's a confession.

518
00:24:23,629 --> 00:24:27,091
He's confessing to the murder,
and he's confessing

519
00:24:27,216 --> 00:24:29,051
to threatening Jeff about it,

520
00:24:29,134 --> 00:24:32,179
to holding Jeff hostage,
to violence against Jeff.

521
00:24:32,262 --> 00:24:38,018
The police and the prosecution
had this the entire time

522
00:24:38,102 --> 00:24:40,020
and they had never seen it

523
00:24:40,104 --> 00:24:42,856
until I showed it to the jury
in opening statement.

524
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,026
[Steve] You clearly
had not reviewed his videos.

525
00:24:46,110 --> 00:24:48,737
-No, sir.
-Some of this information

526
00:24:48,821 --> 00:24:51,198
would've been helpful
in retrospect. Wouldn't it?

527
00:24:51,281 --> 00:24:53,492
Sir, it would've been--
it would've been very helpful.

528
00:24:54,326 --> 00:24:58,497
The reason why,
and it's simple now, uh,

529
00:24:58,580 --> 00:25:01,917
the police's forensic evaluation
of the computers

530
00:25:02,001 --> 00:25:04,920
were done with PCs,

531
00:25:05,004 --> 00:25:09,967
and that video was filmed
on a Apple or Mac.

532
00:25:11,677 --> 00:25:15,014
I'm thinking, okay, well,
this is-- this is a slam dunk.

533
00:25:15,139 --> 00:25:17,391
You've got this guy saying
he's-he's doing it,

534
00:25:17,474 --> 00:25:20,269
he's gonna commit suicide,
he's clearing his lover.

535
00:25:20,352 --> 00:25:22,229
But then when it got back
to the prosecutors

536
00:25:22,312 --> 00:25:23,689
a few days later,
they come back,

537
00:25:23,814 --> 00:25:25,149
"Wait, there's a start to this."

538
00:25:25,274 --> 00:25:26,608
I guess at this point, Judge,
I would move

539
00:25:26,692 --> 00:25:28,318
for admission of that,
permission to play it.

540
00:25:28,444 --> 00:25:30,654
And, Judge, let's-let's not make
some misimpression.

541
00:25:30,779 --> 00:25:32,156
There are three
different videos.

542
00:25:32,281 --> 00:25:34,366
-It's not like--
-[Ryane] Judge, can we approach?

543
00:25:34,491 --> 00:25:35,826
[tense music playing]

544
00:25:35,951 --> 00:25:38,078
There's three separate videos
at this time.

545
00:25:38,162 --> 00:25:39,830
The impression was given
that there's--

546
00:25:39,955 --> 00:25:42,458
that somehow we cut one
of them off or whatever.

547
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:44,334
[Ryane] Three clips
on the same day?

548
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:47,421
[Steve] Yeah, but again, there--
it's not like we-we somehow

549
00:25:47,504 --> 00:25:49,715
edited it out
or anything like that.

550
00:25:49,798 --> 00:25:53,886
The defense for Mr. Mundt only
played a portion of the video.

551
00:25:53,969 --> 00:25:57,181
And there is no doubt that they
did not play the beginning part

552
00:25:57,306 --> 00:25:59,683
that was not that beneficial
to them.

553
00:26:00,517 --> 00:26:01,727
[Perry] Go ahead.

554
00:26:11,195 --> 00:26:12,529
Hello? [sighs]

555
00:26:15,074 --> 00:26:16,241
[Joey sighs]

556
00:26:17,326 --> 00:26:18,869
Alright. [groans]

557
00:26:19,578 --> 00:26:21,288
[sing-song] Okay, class.

558
00:26:23,207 --> 00:26:27,836
So this is Joey's explanation
of what he says happened

559
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,589
during the recording
of that video.

560
00:26:33,926 --> 00:26:36,470
"This is a check to see
if the video camera

561
00:26:36,553 --> 00:26:38,138
is recording correctly

562
00:26:38,222 --> 00:26:41,892
and setting it up
for the 'Suicidal Farewell.'

563
00:26:42,017 --> 00:26:43,185
I was sick of Jase

564
00:26:43,268 --> 00:26:45,104
and didn't want to be
with him anymore.

565
00:26:45,229 --> 00:26:47,064
Jase would not let me go.

566
00:26:47,189 --> 00:26:49,441
He had threatened me
and threatened my family.

567
00:26:50,025 --> 00:26:52,820
The only way was
to completely absolve him

568
00:26:52,903 --> 00:26:54,404
of all responsibility.

569
00:26:54,530 --> 00:26:57,449
So Jase wrote out a script
and told me to read it in front

570
00:26:57,533 --> 00:27:00,577
of the flip video camera
connected to my computer."

571
00:27:00,702 --> 00:27:04,665
"I am sorry for any pain
that this causes."

572
00:27:22,975 --> 00:27:24,184
[Jeffrey] Mm-hmm.

573
00:27:27,604 --> 00:27:29,731
You can see who's in charge.

574
00:27:29,815 --> 00:27:32,276
You can see
who's making this happen,

575
00:27:32,401 --> 00:27:37,156
and it, uh,
it clearly is not Mr. Banis.

576
00:27:38,282 --> 00:27:41,493
You have Mundt
almost seeming to dictate

577
00:27:41,618 --> 00:27:43,287
what Banis was gonna say.

578
00:27:43,412 --> 00:27:45,122
So you're right back
to the start

579
00:27:45,247 --> 00:27:47,374
of who-who is guilty here?

580
00:27:47,457 --> 00:27:49,668
Every time you thought you knew,
you didn't really know.

581
00:27:49,793 --> 00:27:52,045
[dramatic, tense music playing]

582
00:27:54,464 --> 00:27:55,924
[reporter 1] A big twist today

583
00:27:56,008 --> 00:27:58,051
as the trial continues
for the second man charged...

584
00:27:58,135 --> 00:28:00,137
[reporter 2] Joseph Banis
expected to testify

585
00:28:00,262 --> 00:28:01,263
against Jeffrey Mundt.

586
00:28:01,346 --> 00:28:02,723
[narrator]
"The courtroom perked up

587
00:28:02,806 --> 00:28:05,225
when Bailiff Brown
escorted Joey Banis

588
00:28:05,309 --> 00:28:08,020
in an orange jumpsuit
to the stand.

589
00:28:08,145 --> 00:28:11,356
As Banis passed in front
of the defense table,

590
00:28:11,481 --> 00:28:15,569
he gave his ex-boyfriend
a strange lovesick look."

591
00:28:16,153 --> 00:28:18,280
[reporter 3] Banis agreed
to testify in exchange

592
00:28:18,363 --> 00:28:20,616
for prosecutors dropping
the death penalty.

593
00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:22,784
He was
the prosecution's star witness,

594
00:28:22,868 --> 00:28:24,369
just like Jeff was

595
00:28:24,494 --> 00:28:26,747
the prosecution's star witness
in Joey's case.

596
00:28:26,830 --> 00:28:28,749
Do you swear and affirm the
testimony you're about to give

597
00:28:28,832 --> 00:28:30,334
will be the truth
and the whole truth?

598
00:28:30,459 --> 00:28:32,669
-Yes, I do, Your Honor.
-Alright. Go ahead.

599
00:28:32,794 --> 00:28:35,422
[Ryane] Introduce yourself to
the members of the jury, please.

600
00:28:35,505 --> 00:28:37,633
My name is Joseph Richard Banis.

601
00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:41,386
One of the things that
we intended to introduce

602
00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:44,056
was Jeffrey's testimony
from Joey's trial,

603
00:28:44,139 --> 00:28:46,308
so that the jury could hear
his testimony,

604
00:28:46,391 --> 00:28:48,227
his version of events.

605
00:28:48,352 --> 00:28:50,604
If the jury
in Jeffrey Mundt's trial

606
00:28:50,687 --> 00:28:52,773
would've been able to hear
both sides,

607
00:28:52,856 --> 00:28:55,525
they would've been able
to see the whole story.

608
00:28:56,401 --> 00:28:58,028
But the court
did not allow that to happen.

609
00:28:58,153 --> 00:29:01,198
What happened
on December 14th, 2009?

610
00:29:01,323 --> 00:29:03,033
We're all getting it on.

611
00:29:03,158 --> 00:29:05,327
We were comfortable.
We were in bed together.

612
00:29:05,410 --> 00:29:08,372
The three of us started,
you know, watching porn

613
00:29:08,497 --> 00:29:10,290
and, you know, some music was on

614
00:29:10,374 --> 00:29:13,085
and we were playing around
in the bed and so forth.

615
00:29:13,210 --> 00:29:16,463
Jeff suggested
that he still had some money

616
00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:19,925
that he would like to spend,
and since the drugs were good,

617
00:29:20,050 --> 00:29:21,927
could Jamie get him some more?

618
00:29:22,052 --> 00:29:24,429
And Jamie said, "Oh yeah, sure."

619
00:29:24,554 --> 00:29:26,390
When Jamie was gone,

620
00:29:28,058 --> 00:29:29,476
Jeff asked,

621
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:31,520
"Do you think anybody
would miss Jamie?

622
00:29:31,603 --> 00:29:33,272
We could just take his drugs."

623
00:29:33,397 --> 00:29:35,107
When Jamie came back in,

624
00:29:35,232 --> 00:29:37,109
we decided
we were gonna play together,

625
00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:38,193
have sex together.

626
00:29:38,277 --> 00:29:40,737
[somber music playing]

627
00:29:40,821 --> 00:29:42,447
[Joey] After we were done,

628
00:29:42,572 --> 00:29:44,950
I got up to get dressed.

629
00:29:45,075 --> 00:29:47,119
I heard a noise,
and when I turned around,

630
00:29:47,244 --> 00:29:49,246
Jamie and Jeff were struggling,

631
00:29:49,371 --> 00:29:52,374
and they tumbled to the floor.

632
00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:55,002
They started struggling.
I was still thinking

633
00:29:55,085 --> 00:29:57,212
this was some type
of sex scene that was going on

634
00:29:57,296 --> 00:29:59,172
because that was one
of the things we did

635
00:29:59,256 --> 00:30:00,382
involving in role-play.

636
00:30:00,465 --> 00:30:02,592
Jamie yelled out,
"Joey, Joey, help me."

637
00:30:02,718 --> 00:30:06,763
Jamie started screaming, "No,
Joey, no, no, no, please, no."

638
00:30:06,888 --> 00:30:08,849
I saw blood flying

639
00:30:08,932 --> 00:30:10,892
and I saw a knife
in Jeff's hands.

640
00:30:10,976 --> 00:30:12,936
Joey had a knife in his hand

641
00:30:13,061 --> 00:30:15,314
and was slashing
at Jamie's throat.

642
00:30:15,897 --> 00:30:19,067
There was blood
that was literally everywhere.

643
00:30:19,151 --> 00:30:20,777
I mean, you could actually smell
the blood.

644
00:30:20,902 --> 00:30:24,031
And I don't know
where Jeff pulled it from,

645
00:30:24,114 --> 00:30:27,492
but he got a gun and it was
the .38 Smith & Wesson.

646
00:30:27,617 --> 00:30:30,787
Joey takes several steps back
and grabs a gun.

647
00:30:30,912 --> 00:30:32,289
And he shot Jamie.

648
00:30:32,414 --> 00:30:34,708
And Joey shot him,
I believe twice.

649
00:30:34,791 --> 00:30:38,837
I thought Jeff was perhaps going
to shoot me.

650
00:30:38,962 --> 00:30:41,882
He said he would kill me
and kill my family.

651
00:30:41,965 --> 00:30:45,218
He would go and kill my family
and kill my cats.

652
00:30:46,011 --> 00:30:48,430
[Ted] Threatening Jeff's cats.

653
00:30:48,513 --> 00:30:50,432
That's now a crime in Kentucky.

654
00:30:50,515 --> 00:30:52,392
Threatening the pets of someone

655
00:30:52,476 --> 00:30:54,311
you're in
a domestic relationship with

656
00:30:54,436 --> 00:30:56,730
is now a crime,
because that has shown

657
00:30:56,813 --> 00:30:59,399
our evolving understanding
of the dynamics

658
00:30:59,483 --> 00:31:01,651
of domestic violence
and sexual abuse.

659
00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:07,032
[Joey] Jase said that we were
gonna wait till Home Depot

660
00:31:07,157 --> 00:31:08,241
or Lowe's opened,

661
00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:10,660
go there, get a plastic tub,

662
00:31:11,370 --> 00:31:12,913
get some lime.

663
00:31:12,996 --> 00:31:15,665
[Jeffrey] Joey was worried
that it might start to smell,

664
00:31:15,791 --> 00:31:17,876
and I suggested
sprinkling lime.

665
00:31:17,959 --> 00:31:20,587
[Joey] I didn't even know
what the hell lime was,

666
00:31:20,670 --> 00:31:22,756
but he's familiar with it

667
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:25,008
from, uh, gardening

668
00:31:25,133 --> 00:31:27,677
and from some movie
where it's used

669
00:31:27,803 --> 00:31:31,014
to cover up the smell
of decaying bodies.

670
00:31:32,182 --> 00:31:35,560
We got some type of cordage,
some type of rope,

671
00:31:35,685 --> 00:31:38,480
something to help,
you know, close the box

672
00:31:38,563 --> 00:31:40,107
that he was gonna be put in.

673
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:42,901
Jamie's body had gone
into rigor mortis.

674
00:31:43,026 --> 00:31:44,903
And I held the body.

675
00:31:46,238 --> 00:31:49,199
He sledgehammered
Jamie's, uh, kneecaps.

676
00:31:49,908 --> 00:31:52,494
Joey hit him with a sledgehammer

677
00:31:52,577 --> 00:31:54,621
so that the bones broke

678
00:31:55,497 --> 00:31:58,333
and I guess the muscles relaxed
and moved, whatever,

679
00:31:58,417 --> 00:32:01,420
and he was put
into the container.

680
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,552
I don't remember it being
a particularly difficult task.

681
00:32:10,011 --> 00:32:12,472
[Ryane] Jeffrey's testimony
from trial one,

682
00:32:12,556 --> 00:32:15,559
it did paint him
in more of an accurate light.

683
00:32:15,684 --> 00:32:18,228
He was cold, self-serving,
and calculating.

684
00:32:18,353 --> 00:32:21,314
And because we weren't able
to show the real testimony,

685
00:32:21,398 --> 00:32:23,191
the real him in that way,

686
00:32:23,275 --> 00:32:25,402
I-I think that that hurt us.

687
00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:27,195
[Perry] Alright.
Let's keep going.

688
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,239
[Steve] Mr. Banis,
you are a thief,

689
00:32:29,364 --> 00:32:31,908
you're a drug dealer,
you are a murderer,

690
00:32:32,033 --> 00:32:34,119
and you are a liar, correct?

691
00:32:34,202 --> 00:32:35,287
No.

692
00:32:35,412 --> 00:32:38,582
Now, you told Detective Lesher

693
00:32:38,707 --> 00:32:40,667
the night that you were arrested

694
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:43,086
that he worked for the NSA

695
00:32:43,211 --> 00:32:46,840
and was a secret agent
slash assassin, didn't you?

696
00:32:47,424 --> 00:32:50,302
Mr. Mundt had told me
that in the past

697
00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:52,679
he had worked
for the US government

698
00:32:52,762 --> 00:32:54,806
and he told me
that it was for the NSA.

699
00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:57,017
[Steve] You're just making
stuff up, aren't you?

700
00:32:57,100 --> 00:32:59,144
How-- your client is
the one who told--

701
00:32:59,269 --> 00:33:01,146
where did he get
a bullet in his head

702
00:33:01,271 --> 00:33:02,814
-in Bratislava?
-[Steve] The NSA--

703
00:33:02,898 --> 00:33:05,275
That's why I never knew what
to believe or not to believe.

704
00:33:05,358 --> 00:33:07,068
[Steve] You know
what not to believe?

705
00:33:07,152 --> 00:33:09,196
-Okay, tell me.
-You.

706
00:33:10,322 --> 00:33:12,365
[grim music playing]

707
00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:15,660
[reporter 1]
A lurid Louisville murder trial

708
00:33:15,785 --> 00:33:17,287
took yet another turn today...

709
00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:19,664
[reporter 2] Plenty of other
lurid details coming out.

710
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:21,875
[narrator] "Conroy continued
to work her way

711
00:33:21,958 --> 00:33:25,212
through the evidence,
then brought up the sex tape."

712
00:33:25,295 --> 00:33:29,090
[Ryane] Have you reviewed, prior
to your testimony here today,

713
00:33:29,174 --> 00:33:33,428
a video where Joseph Banis
and Jeffrey Mundt

714
00:33:33,512 --> 00:33:35,514
are engaged in sexual relations

715
00:33:35,639 --> 00:33:37,140
after the murder
of Jamie Carroll?

716
00:33:37,265 --> 00:33:38,808
Yes, ma'am. I did.

717
00:33:38,934 --> 00:33:40,352
It's about 12 minutes long.

718
00:33:40,477 --> 00:33:42,062
May stop it
before the end of it.

719
00:33:42,145 --> 00:33:44,022
Judge, may we approach
before this one is played?

720
00:33:44,147 --> 00:33:45,899
This is designed
to do nothing more

721
00:33:45,982 --> 00:33:48,527
than to inflame
the passions of the jury.

722
00:33:48,610 --> 00:33:51,071
[Perry] How graphic is it?
How much do you intend to play?

723
00:33:51,154 --> 00:33:53,615
[Ryane] Not-not much.
I mean, this is not necessarily

724
00:33:53,698 --> 00:33:55,659
what I want to do
on a Wednesday afternoon,

725
00:33:55,784 --> 00:33:57,410
but it's about the nature
of the relationship.

726
00:33:57,494 --> 00:33:58,995
The evidence is
what the evidence is.

727
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,456
[Steve] The-the argument
that a sexual relationship

728
00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:04,376
between an abused person
and an abuser

729
00:34:04,459 --> 00:34:07,546
somehow influences
that relationship

730
00:34:07,671 --> 00:34:09,130
is-is-is absurd.

731
00:34:09,214 --> 00:34:10,549
The only purpose is

732
00:34:10,674 --> 00:34:13,385
we have straight people,
straight men on the jury,

733
00:34:13,510 --> 00:34:16,429
and it's to inflame the jurors
against Mr. Mundt

734
00:34:16,513 --> 00:34:18,098
with this graphic
sexual testimony.

735
00:34:18,181 --> 00:34:19,724
[Perry] I've asked
the Commonwealth

736
00:34:19,808 --> 00:34:21,851
if there's any way to avoid
the graphic nature of this.

737
00:34:21,935 --> 00:34:23,562
-There's not?
-[Ryane] Not on this one.

738
00:34:23,687 --> 00:34:26,523
[Perry] I'm going to allow you
to do it. Alright.

739
00:34:26,648 --> 00:34:28,233
-[tape clicks on]
-[moaning]

740
00:34:28,358 --> 00:34:29,442
[Jeffrey] It's raw.

741
00:34:29,525 --> 00:34:31,110
[Joey] It is raw.

742
00:34:32,654 --> 00:34:34,781
-You're gonna ride it, Joey?
-I'm gonna ride it

743
00:34:34,864 --> 00:34:37,617
or else you're gonna
fucking pile-drive it.

744
00:34:37,701 --> 00:34:39,619
I might be able to do that.

745
00:34:40,495 --> 00:34:41,788
[moans]

746
00:34:44,373 --> 00:34:46,418
[narrator] "Ears reddening,
Jeffrey Mundt

747
00:34:46,501 --> 00:34:49,670
looked straight ahead for
the entire length of the clip

748
00:34:49,754 --> 00:34:52,632
as the jury and everyone else
in the courtroom

749
00:34:52,716 --> 00:34:56,553
watched Joey and Jeffrey
have sex on the screen."

750
00:34:57,721 --> 00:35:00,265
-[Joey] Who's your bitch?
-You're my fucking bitch.

751
00:35:00,390 --> 00:35:02,684
-[Joey] Huh?
-Joey's my fucking bitch.

752
00:35:02,767 --> 00:35:04,519
My little bottom bitch.

753
00:35:04,603 --> 00:35:06,187
[Joey] He's your what?

754
00:35:06,271 --> 00:35:08,273
[Jeffrey]
Little bottom bitch boy.

755
00:35:08,356 --> 00:35:11,276
Can stick my cock in his ass
whenever the fuck I want.

756
00:35:11,401 --> 00:35:12,944
Ride him.

757
00:35:13,069 --> 00:35:14,821
Make him ride my fucking cock.

758
00:35:14,904 --> 00:35:16,531
-[Joey] Hmm?
-[Jeffrey exhales]

759
00:35:16,615 --> 00:35:18,283
Jeff doesn't appear distressed.

760
00:35:18,408 --> 00:35:19,492
Jeff isn't crying.

761
00:35:19,576 --> 00:35:21,953
Jeff isn't begging
for-for Joey to stop.

762
00:35:22,537 --> 00:35:24,414
[Jeffrey] You need
to lift your ass up.

763
00:35:24,539 --> 00:35:26,499
If anything,
it was Jeffrey Mundt

764
00:35:26,583 --> 00:35:29,502
who was directing
what was going to happen

765
00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:31,921
and calling the shots.

766
00:35:32,047 --> 00:35:34,466
They wanted to show
that Jeff was a top

767
00:35:34,549 --> 00:35:36,885
and that therefore
he could not have been

768
00:35:36,968 --> 00:35:39,512
the victim
of an abusive relationship.

769
00:35:39,596 --> 00:35:42,140
Which any-- that's bullshit.

770
00:35:42,265 --> 00:35:44,643
You like videotaping your bitch?

771
00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:46,102
[Jeffrey] Fuck yeah.

772
00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:50,607
[Ryane] Everybody that was
in the courtroom was texting,

773
00:35:50,732 --> 00:35:54,194
"They're playing porn
in division three,

774
00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:56,112
you better get here now."

775
00:35:56,237 --> 00:35:59,074
[panting and moaning on video]

776
00:35:59,157 --> 00:36:02,911
After the first...
ten seconds or so,

777
00:36:02,994 --> 00:36:04,537
it was like, "Okay,
we've seen enough.

778
00:36:04,621 --> 00:36:06,831
Do we really have to see
all of this?"

779
00:36:08,124 --> 00:36:09,751
You would've heard a pin drop.

780
00:36:09,834 --> 00:36:12,045
It was such
an uncomfortable moment.

781
00:36:12,128 --> 00:36:14,047
[Jeffrey] The little bitch
bottom boy you are.

782
00:36:14,130 --> 00:36:17,884
We stopped it before
Jeffrey Mundt said the N word.

783
00:36:18,802 --> 00:36:23,431
We thought that
that would be crossing the line

784
00:36:23,515 --> 00:36:25,767
and risk offending people.

785
00:36:25,850 --> 00:36:29,187
Alright. I need a break.

786
00:36:29,312 --> 00:36:32,273
It's very hard to defend
somebody you believe is innocent

787
00:36:32,357 --> 00:36:34,484
when there are salacious facts.

788
00:36:34,609 --> 00:36:37,404
I'm not sure why sex
is any more offensive

789
00:36:37,487 --> 00:36:39,322
than stabbing
and shooting a person.

790
00:36:39,447 --> 00:36:42,826
The dominant narrative here
was that Jeff didn't participate

791
00:36:42,951 --> 00:36:44,744
in any of this willingly.

792
00:36:44,828 --> 00:36:47,747
[suspenseful electronic music
playing]

793
00:36:47,831 --> 00:36:51,376
[narrator] "Romines then had
LeTonia Jones on the stand,

794
00:36:51,501 --> 00:36:54,421
an advocacy programs
administrator for nine years

795
00:36:54,504 --> 00:36:57,048
with the Kentucky
Domestic Violence Association

796
00:36:57,173 --> 00:36:59,300
in Frankfort.
She established..."

797
00:36:59,384 --> 00:37:01,803
"...that Jeffrey Mundt
displayed all the signs

798
00:37:01,886 --> 00:37:03,680
of a typical battered spouse."

799
00:37:04,305 --> 00:37:06,808
I was called
as an educational witness.

800
00:37:06,891 --> 00:37:08,685
My purpose was
to educate the jury

801
00:37:08,810 --> 00:37:12,480
about the dynamics
of domestic violence.

802
00:37:13,022 --> 00:37:15,483
[Ted] Putting on that evidence
was important

803
00:37:15,567 --> 00:37:17,402
so that the jury
would know the truth

804
00:37:17,485 --> 00:37:22,449
of what a traumatic,
abusive relationship is.

805
00:37:22,532 --> 00:37:24,868
These relationships

806
00:37:24,993 --> 00:37:26,619
where there is violence

807
00:37:26,703 --> 00:37:30,457
and where power and control
sits at the heart

808
00:37:30,540 --> 00:37:32,041
don't make a lot of sense

809
00:37:32,167 --> 00:37:34,753
to people who are not inside
of those relationships.

810
00:37:35,420 --> 00:37:37,505
[Ryane] Her relevance
to the whole thing

811
00:37:37,589 --> 00:37:40,091
was marginal at best because

812
00:37:40,216 --> 00:37:43,928
she was talking in theoretical
domestic violence terms

813
00:37:44,053 --> 00:37:48,099
and not necessarily about
anything specific to this case.

814
00:37:48,224 --> 00:37:50,101
[Ted] So if I came to you
and I said,

815
00:37:50,226 --> 00:37:52,604
"Well, this guy claims
he's being battered,

816
00:37:52,729 --> 00:37:54,314
but I've got a video
of them having sex--"

817
00:37:54,397 --> 00:37:56,065
[Ryane] Your Honor,
may we approach?

818
00:37:56,191 --> 00:38:00,445
It would be improper
for an expert of any type

819
00:38:00,528 --> 00:38:02,947
to testify
to the ultimate issue.

820
00:38:03,072 --> 00:38:04,741
That would be the legal phrase.

821
00:38:04,866 --> 00:38:08,495
So to ask, "Is Jeffrey Mundt
a victim of domestic violence?"

822
00:38:08,578 --> 00:38:10,330
You can't ask her that.

823
00:38:10,413 --> 00:38:12,248
[Ted] I'll withdraw
the question, Judge.

824
00:38:12,373 --> 00:38:14,542
[Ryane] Um, no.
May we approach? Thank you.

825
00:38:14,626 --> 00:38:16,044
I want an admonishment
to the jury.

826
00:38:16,127 --> 00:38:18,296
He did that on purpose,
and you know that he did.

827
00:38:18,421 --> 00:38:19,923
I want an admonishment.

828
00:38:20,048 --> 00:38:21,341
[Ted] Ongoing
sexual relationship

829
00:38:21,424 --> 00:38:22,509
is not controversial.

830
00:38:22,592 --> 00:38:24,052
It's not cutting-edge theory.

831
00:38:24,135 --> 00:38:26,179
It is accepted
in this area of expertise.

832
00:38:26,262 --> 00:38:27,597
-[Perry] Counsel?
-Yes, sir.

833
00:38:27,722 --> 00:38:30,975
[Perry] You became very close

834
00:38:31,059 --> 00:38:34,687
to simply defying this court
in an inappropriate fashion.

835
00:38:34,771 --> 00:38:36,564
The question was so suggestive

836
00:38:36,648 --> 00:38:38,691
of the facts and evidence
in this case.

837
00:38:38,775 --> 00:38:41,277
I cannot imagine
why you did what you did.

838
00:38:41,402 --> 00:38:43,154
-Alright, step back.
-Sorry.

839
00:38:44,113 --> 00:38:45,657
Ladies and gentlemen,

840
00:38:45,782 --> 00:38:48,409
please disregard
that last question and answer.

841
00:38:48,493 --> 00:38:50,370
The facts
of this particular case

842
00:38:50,453 --> 00:38:52,372
will be decided by you
and you only.

843
00:38:53,623 --> 00:38:56,084
[Darren]
You can't un-ring a bell.

844
00:38:56,167 --> 00:39:00,964
When a judge tells jurors
to forget what they just heard,

845
00:39:01,089 --> 00:39:03,550
if they were bored
before the judge said that,

846
00:39:03,633 --> 00:39:06,344
I guarantee you
that they're interested now.

847
00:39:06,469 --> 00:39:09,305
[tense music playing]

848
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:11,224
[reporter] Both sides rested
their case today.

849
00:39:11,307 --> 00:39:12,600
-It was day nine...
-Closing arguments

850
00:39:12,684 --> 00:39:13,726
are currently underway.

851
00:39:13,810 --> 00:39:15,228
[Ryane] If you are a victim,

852
00:39:15,311 --> 00:39:17,814
if you are a witness,
if you are a hostage,

853
00:39:17,939 --> 00:39:19,190
you act like it.

854
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:23,027
[reporter] It's the final
chapter in a twisted tale

855
00:39:23,111 --> 00:39:25,029
-of sex, drugs, and murder.
-We wanna take you live

856
00:39:25,154 --> 00:39:26,197
right now to the courthouse

857
00:39:26,322 --> 00:39:28,157
where we're about to get
a verdict.

858
00:39:31,202 --> 00:39:33,204
[Perry] Mr. Mundt,
can you stand, please?

859
00:39:34,706 --> 00:39:35,874
Alright.

860
00:39:38,376 --> 00:39:42,046
"For murder, we the jury found
the defendant, Jeffrey Mundt,

861
00:39:43,006 --> 00:39:44,507
not guilty."

862
00:39:45,758 --> 00:39:47,844
[reporter] A jury deliberated
for nearly eight hours

863
00:39:47,969 --> 00:39:49,929
before finding a Louisville man
not guilty

864
00:39:50,013 --> 00:39:52,056
of killing his former lover
and drug dealer.

865
00:39:52,181 --> 00:39:53,892
I was just dumbstruck.

866
00:39:54,017 --> 00:39:55,894
Like, how in the hell did a jury

867
00:39:56,019 --> 00:39:58,605
find him not guilty of murder?

868
00:39:59,731 --> 00:40:01,566
They beat him
with a sledgehammer,

869
00:40:01,691 --> 00:40:05,194
they stuff him in a Rubbermaid
in their basement,

870
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,698
and for six months
they live happily ever after.

871
00:40:10,366 --> 00:40:13,745
I still can't believe
that he's not guilty.

872
00:40:13,870 --> 00:40:15,830
[reporter] Jeffrey Mundt was
convicted of lesser charges...

873
00:40:15,914 --> 00:40:17,248
Convicting him of robbery
and tampering...

874
00:40:17,332 --> 00:40:18,833
Sentenced
to three years for robbery

875
00:40:18,917 --> 00:40:20,460
and five years for tampering.

876
00:40:21,836 --> 00:40:24,213
[Darren] The wrong message
was sent here,

877
00:40:24,339 --> 00:40:27,800
which is that you can, in fact,
get away with murder.

878
00:40:29,177 --> 00:40:31,596
The jury simply got it wrong.

879
00:40:37,101 --> 00:40:41,105
What happens in a courtroom?
It's about winning and losing.

880
00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:45,068
Very rarely do we truly get

881
00:40:45,193 --> 00:40:47,946
an honest view of what happened.

882
00:40:48,696 --> 00:40:50,823
And that, for me,

883
00:40:50,907 --> 00:40:53,409
makes it difficult
to trust a system

884
00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:55,453
that we would call
a justice system.

885
00:40:56,245 --> 00:40:59,082
-[bird chirping]
-[traffic humming]

886
00:41:05,588 --> 00:41:06,673
[Darren] Follow me.

887
00:41:07,256 --> 00:41:09,258
So as we walk
down the steps here,

888
00:41:09,384 --> 00:41:12,470
this basement is what I use
for storage of my files.

889
00:41:12,553 --> 00:41:15,473
This was one of the exhibits
that we showed at trial.

890
00:41:15,598 --> 00:41:18,393
Looking at that individual,
that is not the individual

891
00:41:18,476 --> 00:41:20,395
that presented himself
to that jury.

892
00:41:20,478 --> 00:41:23,147
We know that's
the real Mr. Mundt.

893
00:41:24,065 --> 00:41:25,441
That's the real Jeffrey.

894
00:41:25,566 --> 00:41:27,527
[grim music playing]

895
00:41:27,610 --> 00:41:31,239
[Linda] I was the only one
that ever visited Jeff in jail.

896
00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:35,618
He kept promising me that he
would tell me the full story,

897
00:41:35,743 --> 00:41:37,328
but he didn't wanna talk
about it there.

898
00:41:37,412 --> 00:41:40,540
Of course, in jail, it's being
recorded and all that.

899
00:41:40,623 --> 00:41:43,876
[narrator] "Mundt made parole
a year after his trial,

900
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,172
having served just four years
of his eight-year sentence."

901
00:41:50,425 --> 00:41:52,176
[Linda] And when
he got released,

902
00:41:52,301 --> 00:41:53,845
we went and picked him up

903
00:41:53,970 --> 00:41:55,430
and brought him back
to Louisville.

904
00:41:55,513 --> 00:41:57,640
-And had lunch with his parents.
-To his halfway house.

905
00:41:57,765 --> 00:42:00,935
No, we had lunch
at, uh, Red Lobster.

906
00:42:01,019 --> 00:42:03,646
And then that was it. [sighs]

907
00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:07,108
After he was paroled
and basically served his time,

908
00:42:07,191 --> 00:42:08,693
he kind of disappeared,

909
00:42:08,818 --> 00:42:11,070
and no one even knows
where he is today.

910
00:42:11,654 --> 00:42:13,448
[producer] So you don't know
where he is.

911
00:42:13,531 --> 00:42:15,575
-Last I knew was Baltimore.
-Last we heard, Baltimore.

912
00:42:15,658 --> 00:42:17,535
[quirky music playing]

913
00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:22,331
[Linda] And he told me that
he got a job at a movie theater

914
00:42:22,457 --> 00:42:25,918
and he would-- he wouldn't tell
people he was from Louisville.

915
00:42:26,002 --> 00:42:28,880
And then slowly
he stopped talking to me

916
00:42:29,005 --> 00:42:30,673
and then he ghosted me.

917
00:42:30,798 --> 00:42:33,051
-[laughs]
-[Megan] Yeah.

918
00:42:33,134 --> 00:42:36,596
And I think that's
what hurts the most.

919
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:39,766
To think how I tried to be
such a good friend

920
00:42:39,849 --> 00:42:41,893
and then all of a sudden,
nothing.

921
00:42:42,018 --> 00:42:43,186
[music ends abruptly]

922
00:42:43,311 --> 00:42:45,813
-Can I ask you a question?
-[producer] Yeah.

923
00:42:45,897 --> 00:42:48,357
Have you been able
to-to locate Jeff?

924
00:42:48,483 --> 00:42:50,943
[producer] No.
I was gonna ask if you...

925
00:42:51,027 --> 00:42:52,737
do you know where he is?

926
00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:55,239
See, that's a lot of stuff
that I just am not...

927
00:42:55,364 --> 00:42:57,658
and I don't mean to be
a stick in the mud

928
00:42:57,742 --> 00:43:00,078
and I don't mean to be
a lawyer's lawyer, uh,

929
00:43:00,203 --> 00:43:03,039
although I'm kind of proud
of being that. Um...

930
00:43:03,164 --> 00:43:04,624
-I gotta go.
-Yeah.

931
00:43:04,707 --> 00:43:07,627
I'm sorry.
I hope I wasn't too circumspect.

932
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:08,795
[Steve chuckles]

933
00:43:08,878 --> 00:43:10,797
Much like reading
a book about it,

934
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,340
Jeff's case is over for me.

935
00:43:12,423 --> 00:43:15,343
Much like a lot of clients,
I don't keep up with him

936
00:43:15,426 --> 00:43:17,637
when-when my case with him
is over.

937
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:19,388
I assume he's doing well.

938
00:43:20,181 --> 00:43:23,476
[Darren] So the question is,
where is Jeffrey Mundt?

939
00:43:24,060 --> 00:43:25,394
Your guess is as good as mine,

940
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,897
but I will make
an agreement with you.

941
00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:30,108
If you find him,
you let me know.

942
00:43:30,233 --> 00:43:32,068
And if I find him,
I'll let you know.

943
00:43:32,193 --> 00:43:34,070
-[dramatic stinger]
-[light clicks off]

944
00:43:34,195 --> 00:43:36,656
[line ringing]

945
00:43:37,156 --> 00:43:39,450
[operator] This is
a prepaid collect call from...

946
00:43:39,575 --> 00:43:42,036
-[Joey] Joseph Banis.
-...an incarcerated individual.

947
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,956
This call will be recorded
and may be monitored.

948
00:43:47,416 --> 00:43:49,669
[bright, suspenseful music
playing]

949
00:43:51,879 --> 00:43:55,299
[producer] Were you surprised
that Jeffrey just disappeared?

950
00:43:56,134 --> 00:43:57,552
Uh, no.

951
00:43:57,635 --> 00:44:01,013
Doesn't surprise me that
he could stay off the grid,

952
00:44:01,097 --> 00:44:05,017
uh, build up a new identity,
any of those things.

953
00:44:05,101 --> 00:44:07,645
He told me that he did
that type of stuff.

954
00:44:08,896 --> 00:44:12,608
Obviously I was disappointed
because I'm in prison

955
00:44:12,733 --> 00:44:14,861
for something
somebody else did.

956
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,241
[Darren] The laptop
that we actually have here

957
00:44:20,324 --> 00:44:23,661
is a digital copy
of Joey's laptop.

958
00:44:25,788 --> 00:44:27,206
[Ryane] In this case,

959
00:44:27,290 --> 00:44:29,542
with all the videoing
they did of each other,

960
00:44:29,625 --> 00:44:32,044
it was overwhelming
because, at that time,

961
00:44:32,128 --> 00:44:33,880
there was no
digital forensic unit

962
00:44:33,963 --> 00:44:35,506
of the Louisville
Metro Police Department.

963
00:44:35,631 --> 00:44:38,885
There wasn't a way to sift
through all of that information.

964
00:44:39,969 --> 00:44:43,389
There's a lot of files,
over 700,000 files.

965
00:44:43,472 --> 00:44:46,684
It was a one terabyte
or tegabyte or...

966
00:44:46,809 --> 00:44:48,102
It was a big one.

967
00:44:48,186 --> 00:44:50,855
I clicked on every link
that I could go through,

968
00:44:50,980 --> 00:44:53,524
but could not access anything
on a Mac.

969
00:44:54,108 --> 00:44:55,484
[startup chime]

970
00:44:56,402 --> 00:44:59,238
[Darren] I guarantee you there's
information on his laptop

971
00:44:59,322 --> 00:45:00,823
that people haven't seen.

972
00:45:00,948 --> 00:45:02,158
I guarantee you that.

973
00:45:02,283 --> 00:45:04,994
[dramatic stinger swells
and fades]

974
00:45:06,787 --> 00:45:10,416
[Joey] You know, I had all kinds
of little recording devices,

975
00:45:10,499 --> 00:45:13,628
and I was always trying
to get him to, uh,

976
00:45:13,711 --> 00:45:16,005
admit what really happened.

977
00:45:23,971 --> 00:45:26,349
[Joey] He was cagey as hell
because, you know, I mean,

978
00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:27,642
he's in the background

979
00:45:27,725 --> 00:45:30,561
and not saying
very much of anything.

980
00:45:54,168 --> 00:45:57,255
...and what fucking--
what-- why-why-why is--

981
00:46:19,735 --> 00:46:22,738
[Joey] He kept on threatening me
saying, uh, "Joey, uh, you'll--

982
00:46:22,863 --> 00:46:24,949
you can never say anything
to anybody about this

983
00:46:25,074 --> 00:46:26,826
because nobody
will ever believe you

984
00:46:26,909 --> 00:46:29,328
because you have the criminal
record, and I don't."

985
00:46:31,539 --> 00:46:34,583
It was, uh, it was not
a healthy relationship.

986
00:46:34,709 --> 00:46:38,129
[tense timpani notes resonating]

987
00:46:39,463 --> 00:46:42,466
-[notification whooshes]
-[typing]

988
00:46:42,591 --> 00:46:44,760
[tense music playing]

989
00:46:47,221 --> 00:46:49,473
[clock ticking]

990
00:46:55,896 --> 00:46:57,773
-[notification whooshes]
-[typing]

991
00:46:59,317 --> 00:47:00,609
[notification chimes]

992
00:47:09,618 --> 00:47:11,329
[notification chimes]

993
00:47:11,454 --> 00:47:12,788
Joey missed me or something

994
00:47:12,913 --> 00:47:16,459
and wanted me to come back
after Glow,

995
00:47:17,418 --> 00:47:20,421
and they had that new house
in Old Louisville.

996
00:47:20,504 --> 00:47:22,590
[ominous music playing]

997
00:47:22,673 --> 00:47:26,510
And then I was Joey's assistant
there for a while.

998
00:47:26,635 --> 00:47:29,055
-[notification whooshes]
-[typing]

999
00:47:35,770 --> 00:47:39,106
When I first went
to Joey and Jase's house,

1000
00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:40,816
they took me down
to the basement

1001
00:47:40,941 --> 00:47:44,487
and to show me where
the laundry room was and stuff.

1002
00:47:46,697 --> 00:47:49,033
They tried to give me
that guy's clothes

1003
00:47:49,116 --> 00:47:51,786
and said that the guy had just
basically left them there

1004
00:47:51,869 --> 00:47:53,037
and went back home.

1005
00:47:53,162 --> 00:47:54,789
He didn't want 'em, I guess,

1006
00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:57,166
and they were
a little big on me, obviously,

1007
00:47:57,291 --> 00:47:59,543
um, so I was like,
"No, I don't need 'em."

1008
00:48:00,503 --> 00:48:03,214
It was kind of traumatizing
to, like, think about,

1009
00:48:03,339 --> 00:48:04,882
like, that I was there
feeding cats

1010
00:48:05,007 --> 00:48:06,634
and there was
a dead body downstairs,

1011
00:48:06,717 --> 00:48:08,677
and I just didn't know it yet.

1012
00:48:08,803 --> 00:48:10,554
-[notification whooshes]
-[typing]

1013
00:48:12,181 --> 00:48:14,058
You know,
that-that could have been me,

1014
00:48:14,183 --> 00:48:17,478
and the way that, um,
my life was going then,

1015
00:48:17,561 --> 00:48:18,854
it almost was me.

1016
00:48:23,067 --> 00:48:26,070
We started to hook up
a few different times.

1017
00:48:26,153 --> 00:48:29,031
But I would pull back
because it just seemed weird,

1018
00:48:29,156 --> 00:48:31,117
the two of them,
their connection.

1019
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,244
Something weird
was going on there.

1020
00:48:33,327 --> 00:48:35,788
Like just the way
they talk to each other.

1021
00:48:35,871 --> 00:48:39,166
You could feel the tension
between the two of them a lot.

1022
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:41,710
-[keys jingling]
-[music fades]

1023
00:48:44,380 --> 00:48:45,714
[Joey] Yeah...

1024
00:48:48,759 --> 00:48:50,719
[key sliding in lock]

1025
00:48:52,888 --> 00:48:54,348
It's not closing.

1026
00:48:54,432 --> 00:48:56,809
[soft, suspenseful music
playing]

1027
00:48:59,645 --> 00:49:03,107
[Daniel] Every single bedroom
had its own padlock.

1028
00:49:03,232 --> 00:49:06,527
Like the key ring was just
a bunch of padlock keys.

1029
00:49:06,610 --> 00:49:09,280
Every single door
had its own padlock.

1030
00:49:09,864 --> 00:49:13,117
It was, um, very, very weird.

1031
00:49:14,910 --> 00:49:19,206
Jeff had lost his job
at the end of January,

1032
00:49:19,290 --> 00:49:21,208
after the murder,

1033
00:49:21,292 --> 00:49:26,130
and never put in a résumé
for another job.

1034
00:49:26,255 --> 00:49:29,717
You know, he was supposedly
renovating this house, uh,

1035
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,178
turning it
into a bed and breakfast.

1036
00:49:33,387 --> 00:49:37,349
But basically,
he was in serious debt.

1037
00:49:38,767 --> 00:49:41,270
If they were planning to fix
it up, they hadn't gotten far.

1038
00:49:42,271 --> 00:49:44,899
That house was
in complete disarray.

1039
00:49:44,982 --> 00:49:47,735
It-it does seem like
they were desperate for money.

1040
00:49:47,818 --> 00:49:49,153
[Joey] Here.

1041
00:50:00,956 --> 00:50:02,124
[light music playing]

1042
00:50:02,249 --> 00:50:03,834
[Josh] They had
the telltale signs

1043
00:50:03,959 --> 00:50:06,587
of two people that were living
daily high on meth.

1044
00:50:06,670 --> 00:50:08,881
I mean, they did a tour
of their apartment

1045
00:50:08,964 --> 00:50:11,008
showing off
their counterfeiting process.

1046
00:50:11,133 --> 00:50:12,760
No one does that
unless you're just

1047
00:50:12,843 --> 00:50:14,553
completely out of your mind
on meth.

1048
00:50:14,637 --> 00:50:17,723
I'm all about drug use.
I love drugs.

1049
00:50:17,806 --> 00:50:20,100
You know, a little theft
by deception, sure,

1050
00:50:20,184 --> 00:50:22,311
I've done that as well,
but guess what?

1051
00:50:22,436 --> 00:50:24,480
I'm not a computer programmer.

1052
00:50:25,314 --> 00:50:27,441
This was something
he was totally into.

1053
00:50:27,525 --> 00:50:30,069
He was really good
with computers.

1054
00:50:30,152 --> 00:50:32,571
He was really good
with online stuff

1055
00:50:32,655 --> 00:50:36,325
and figuring
all kinds of stuff out.

1056
00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:39,453
I kept feeling that
he was going to turn on me

1057
00:50:39,537 --> 00:50:42,456
and try and throw me
under the bus for everything.

1058
00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:44,708
And so there was--
there was a time

1059
00:50:44,833 --> 00:50:47,962
when I started documenting,
um, his criminal activity,

1060
00:50:48,045 --> 00:50:51,715
so, uh, particularly
the counterfeiting and stuff.

1061
00:51:20,661 --> 00:51:23,372
[suspenseful electronic music
playing]

1062
00:51:26,875 --> 00:51:28,919
[Joey] We'd made
all this counterfeit money

1063
00:51:29,044 --> 00:51:30,754
and we're going up to Chicago

1064
00:51:30,879 --> 00:51:33,215
to turn counterfeit money
into real money.

1065
00:51:38,846 --> 00:51:41,056
[sirens wailing]

1066
00:51:48,439 --> 00:51:53,068
We got to the, um, Hyatt Hotel
on Wacker Drive in Chicago

1067
00:51:53,193 --> 00:51:57,573
and I asked Joey if he had
any ones to tip the valet with.

1068
00:51:59,408 --> 00:52:02,870
And then I got change
for the valet.

1069
00:52:02,953 --> 00:52:07,499
He passed off a bill to, uh,
the guy in broad daylight

1070
00:52:07,583 --> 00:52:09,168
up there, the valet.

1071
00:52:10,044 --> 00:52:12,087
He was so spun out on meth

1072
00:52:12,212 --> 00:52:15,215
that he grabbed stuff that
he wasn't-- basically trash.

1073
00:52:15,299 --> 00:52:17,343
He grabbed some tester bills

1074
00:52:17,426 --> 00:52:19,386
that had been washed

1075
00:52:19,470 --> 00:52:22,514
and scrubbed and printed on
over and over again

1076
00:52:22,598 --> 00:52:25,601
to test the color
and passed it to the valet.

1077
00:52:25,684 --> 00:52:28,103
[announcer] Breaking news.
This is WAVE 3 News.

1078
00:52:28,187 --> 00:52:30,981
[reporter] Two Louisville men
are behind bars in Chicago now

1079
00:52:31,106 --> 00:52:34,068
after police found $50,000
in counterfeit cash

1080
00:52:34,151 --> 00:52:35,486
in their hotel room.

1081
00:52:35,611 --> 00:52:37,613
I couldn't believe it was
the same Jeff I knew.

1082
00:52:37,738 --> 00:52:40,324
-It didn't look like him.
-He didn't look happy.

1083
00:52:40,449 --> 00:52:43,410
He looked angry.
Well, obviously, he just got...

1084
00:52:43,494 --> 00:52:45,371
-Arrested. [laughs]
-...arrested.

1085
00:52:45,454 --> 00:52:48,290
[reporter] They also found
weapons, fake IDs,

1086
00:52:48,415 --> 00:52:50,668
and a suspected date rape drug.

1087
00:52:50,793 --> 00:52:52,670
I grew up a sheltered life.

1088
00:52:52,753 --> 00:52:55,673
I don't know that much
about drugs or anything.

1089
00:52:55,798 --> 00:52:58,634
And, you know, people would say,
"You didn't know?

1090
00:52:58,759 --> 00:53:00,511
I mean, he's always sniffling."

1091
00:53:00,636 --> 00:53:03,305
I'm like, "Well, he said
he had allergies." You know?

1092
00:53:03,430 --> 00:53:05,974
[tense music playing]

1093
00:53:08,769 --> 00:53:12,272
We get arrested and I knew
that my-my bail would be higher

1094
00:53:12,356 --> 00:53:14,483
because I had a felony record.

1095
00:53:14,608 --> 00:53:16,819
And so I told the detectives

1096
00:53:16,944 --> 00:53:18,821
that he didn't know
anything about it,

1097
00:53:18,946 --> 00:53:20,280
that it was all my stuff.

1098
00:53:20,364 --> 00:53:23,367
I was trying to get him
released on a lower bond

1099
00:53:23,492 --> 00:53:26,495
so that he could come
and bail me out.

1100
00:53:28,664 --> 00:53:31,208
So the funny thing
about being scared of me

1101
00:53:31,291 --> 00:53:33,711
doesn't really hold water
because, you know, I mean,

1102
00:53:33,794 --> 00:53:36,296
I was basically someplace
where I couldn't get to him.

1103
00:53:36,380 --> 00:53:39,091
I couldn't do anything,
he could have left me in jail.

1104
00:53:40,509 --> 00:53:42,845
So, anyways, he came back

1105
00:53:42,970 --> 00:53:45,931
and paid $20,000
to get me out of jail.

1106
00:53:53,647 --> 00:53:55,274
I come back to Louisville
with him

1107
00:53:55,357 --> 00:53:59,319
and it becomes
just a-a-a terrible,

1108
00:53:59,403 --> 00:54:03,282
terrible situation
where there's no resolution.

1109
00:54:41,570 --> 00:54:44,740
-[clocks ticking]
-[suspenseful music playing]

1110
00:55:03,592 --> 00:55:05,511
-[glass clinking]
-Jase!

1111
00:55:07,054 --> 00:55:08,597
[Joey sobbing]

1112
00:55:09,264 --> 00:55:11,308
[Joey] What is wrong with you?

1113
00:55:11,433 --> 00:55:14,478
[sobbing]

1114
00:55:14,603 --> 00:55:18,273
What did you take
or what did I do, Jase?

1115
00:55:33,956 --> 00:55:36,792
[dramatic music playing]

1116
00:55:39,670 --> 00:55:42,714
[singing]

1117
00:56:04,361 --> 00:56:06,196
[phone dialing]

1118
00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:08,240
[line ringing]

1119
00:56:08,323 --> 00:56:09,658
[banging on door]

1120
00:56:09,783 --> 00:56:12,035
911 Operator Walker.
Where is your emergency?

1121
00:56:12,119 --> 00:56:13,996
[Jeffrey] Please,
1435 South Fourth Street.

1122
00:56:14,121 --> 00:56:15,956
My ex-boyfriend is attacking me
in my house.

1123
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:18,834
-Please come immediately.
-Who is attacking your door?

1124
00:56:18,959 --> 00:56:20,502
[Jeffrey] Joey Banis.

1125
00:56:21,044 --> 00:56:25,424
While I was sleeping off,
um, being up days on meth,

1126
00:56:25,507 --> 00:56:28,427
he took my keys,
my phone, my wallet.

1127
00:56:29,344 --> 00:56:31,138
Went into the guest bedroom,

1128
00:56:31,221 --> 00:56:34,433
and, um, called 911

1129
00:56:34,516 --> 00:56:37,686
and, uh, took a hammer,
banged it on the door,

1130
00:56:37,811 --> 00:56:40,188
and made, you know,
background noises.

1131
00:56:40,314 --> 00:56:42,941
[Jeffrey] Please somebody help.
I can't get rid of him.

1132
00:56:43,025 --> 00:56:45,360
-[bangs]
-[sobbing] I'm scared.

1133
00:56:45,485 --> 00:56:48,530
[Joey] Told them that
his soon-to-be ex-boyfriend

1134
00:56:48,655 --> 00:56:52,200
was trying to kill him--
which I wasn't, I was asleep--

1135
00:56:52,326 --> 00:56:56,204
and they should break
into the house and arrest me.

1136
00:56:57,039 --> 00:56:59,541
[Donny] So the domestic run
comes out, they make the run,

1137
00:56:59,666 --> 00:57:01,126
separate the parties.

1138
00:57:03,837 --> 00:57:05,589
While they're separated,

1139
00:57:05,714 --> 00:57:08,342
Mundt says to one
of the officers

1140
00:57:08,425 --> 00:57:10,469
that Banis killed a guy.

1141
00:57:10,552 --> 00:57:12,804
The officer comes downstairs
and tells Banis,

1142
00:57:12,888 --> 00:57:14,681
"Man, your boyfriend must be
really mad at you.

1143
00:57:14,765 --> 00:57:17,100
He just accused you
of killing somebody."

1144
00:57:17,225 --> 00:57:19,144
[Joey] Anyways, he won't come
out of the bedroom

1145
00:57:19,227 --> 00:57:20,604
until I'm in cuffs.

1146
00:57:20,729 --> 00:57:22,397
When I come out of the bedroom,

1147
00:57:22,522 --> 00:57:24,983
he says, uh,
"He's killed someone."

1148
00:57:25,067 --> 00:57:28,070
And at that point I was like,
"No, no, no, no, no.

1149
00:57:28,195 --> 00:57:30,405
Yeah, I didn't kill anyone.

1150
00:57:31,073 --> 00:57:32,741
He killed the person. You know,

1151
00:57:32,866 --> 00:57:35,327
and I'll be happy to take you
the-- give you the story."

1152
00:57:35,410 --> 00:57:38,121
So I went down
to the, uh, homicide department

1153
00:57:38,205 --> 00:57:41,333
and I started giving
a statement.

1154
00:57:41,416 --> 00:57:43,627
[tense music playing]

1155
00:57:43,752 --> 00:57:46,046
So he comes down
and he tells Lesher

1156
00:57:46,129 --> 00:57:48,173
everything about what happened
with this,

1157
00:57:48,256 --> 00:57:50,092
but he puts it all on Mundt.

1158
00:57:50,676 --> 00:57:54,471
[Joey] Police were definitely
not inclined to believe me.

1159
00:57:54,596 --> 00:57:56,390
You're not making this stuff up.

1160
00:57:56,473 --> 00:57:59,768
This is not a lie
to get back at him because

1161
00:58:00,811 --> 00:58:03,063
you were arrested for...

1162
00:58:03,146 --> 00:58:05,440
-No.
-...a different crime.

1163
00:58:05,524 --> 00:58:08,402
[Joey] Mundt came in there
and, uh, acted at first

1164
00:58:08,485 --> 00:58:10,946
like he didn't know anything
about the case

1165
00:58:11,071 --> 00:58:13,490
or the murder
or the body or anything.

1166
00:58:13,615 --> 00:58:16,952
And then when he was about
to be given a polygraph test,

1167
00:58:17,077 --> 00:58:18,620
he said that
he couldn't take it

1168
00:58:18,745 --> 00:58:21,456
because he'd been lying
to them all along.

1169
00:58:24,459 --> 00:58:26,294
The one thing I keyed on was,

1170
00:58:26,420 --> 00:58:28,672
Mundt talks about that Banis
slit the throat.

1171
00:58:28,797 --> 00:58:31,925
Banis says that Mundt
stabbed him in the neck.

1172
00:58:32,009 --> 00:58:33,844
Doesn't talk
about slitting the throat.

1173
00:58:33,969 --> 00:58:36,013
If you look
at the autopsy report,

1174
00:58:36,138 --> 00:58:37,639
it looks like
they're stab wounds.

1175
00:58:37,764 --> 00:58:39,391
-Stab wounds.
-Not-not a slit.

1176
00:58:42,602 --> 00:58:45,272
That might seem like
not a big deal.

1177
00:58:45,355 --> 00:58:47,441
I think that is a huge deal.

1178
00:58:47,524 --> 00:58:49,651
[producer] Why is that not part
of the story?

1179
00:58:49,776 --> 00:58:52,112
I don't know. You all
are writing a story, not me.

1180
00:58:52,195 --> 00:58:53,905
[Collin laughs]

1181
00:58:53,989 --> 00:58:55,574
I didn't write the story.

1182
00:58:56,825 --> 00:58:59,411
I'm literally just reading
what's in the case file.

1183
00:59:00,412 --> 00:59:02,330
[Collin] I've learned
over the years,

1184
00:59:02,456 --> 00:59:04,332
you know,
my time in-in-in homicide

1185
00:59:04,458 --> 00:59:07,878
and-and work in narcotics, that,

1186
00:59:08,003 --> 00:59:10,422
your-your motive, you don't
really have to kill somebody

1187
00:59:10,505 --> 00:59:12,716
to rob 'em of their-their dope
and their money.

1188
00:59:12,799 --> 00:59:15,427
Especially like,
as brutal as what that was.

1189
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:17,971
This was extremely personal.

1190
00:59:18,055 --> 00:59:19,389
Why would you do this?

1191
00:59:19,514 --> 00:59:21,725
I mean, there is
no real motive for this.

1192
00:59:21,808 --> 00:59:24,269
Jamie was
a low-level drug dealer

1193
00:59:24,352 --> 00:59:25,979
who probably had
a couple hundred dollars

1194
00:59:26,063 --> 00:59:27,189
on him that night.

1195
00:59:27,314 --> 00:59:28,815
He probably didn't have
enough drugs

1196
00:59:28,899 --> 00:59:30,233
to make it through the week.

1197
00:59:31,485 --> 00:59:32,944
We had a theory.

1198
00:59:34,029 --> 00:59:35,781
[tense timpani notes resonating]

1199
00:59:35,864 --> 00:59:39,367
I mean, the killing occurred
during the middle of a sex act.

1200
00:59:40,494 --> 00:59:42,204
I think it was a thrill.

1201
00:59:44,664 --> 00:59:46,708
[line ringing]

1202
00:59:47,542 --> 00:59:49,920
[operator] This is
a prepaid collect call from...

1203
00:59:50,045 --> 00:59:52,547
-[Joey] Joseph Banis.
-...an incarcerated individual.

1204
00:59:52,672 --> 00:59:54,091
This call is not private.

1205
00:59:54,216 --> 00:59:56,093
If you believe this should be
a private call,

1206
00:59:56,218 --> 00:59:59,179
please hang up,
follow facility instructions...

1207
00:59:59,262 --> 01:00:02,557
Ultimately, uh, I mean,
it all comes down to this.

1208
01:00:03,517 --> 01:00:05,894
Mundt and-and-and Jamie,

1209
01:00:06,019 --> 01:00:08,438
they were both there
to fuck me.

1210
01:00:08,563 --> 01:00:10,816
[tense music playing]

1211
01:00:10,899 --> 01:00:12,359
We had a couple three-ways.

1212
01:00:12,442 --> 01:00:14,194
Um, I was normally restrained.

1213
01:00:14,277 --> 01:00:17,072
Um, they were both normally,
you know, topping me.

1214
01:00:19,699 --> 01:00:23,495
Jase had actual rope that
he would use to tie people up.

1215
01:00:24,746 --> 01:00:28,542
He knew a zillion
different rope-tying tricks

1216
01:00:28,625 --> 01:00:30,335
and knots
and all that type of stuff.

1217
01:00:31,419 --> 01:00:34,756
And, um, it was fun.

1218
01:00:34,881 --> 01:00:37,801
But Mundt had to go to work
in the morning,

1219
01:00:37,926 --> 01:00:40,428
and it infuriated him

1220
01:00:40,554 --> 01:00:43,473
that Jamie and I stayed behind

1221
01:00:43,598 --> 01:00:46,101
in his, Mundt's house,

1222
01:00:46,184 --> 01:00:49,354
um, in his bed, uh,

1223
01:00:49,437 --> 01:00:52,649
continuing to get high
and have sex

1224
01:00:52,774 --> 01:00:54,901
while he had to go to work.

1225
01:00:54,985 --> 01:00:58,196
That was the-the, uh, seed
that germinated

1226
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,908
into, uh, the jealousy
that caused the murder.

1227
01:01:02,617 --> 01:01:05,620
When the murder actually
occurred, I was restrained.

1228
01:01:08,582 --> 01:01:12,210
You know, when I was tied up
and-and Jamie was asking me,

1229
01:01:12,294 --> 01:01:14,296
"Joey, help me,"
and I couldn't help him,

1230
01:01:14,421 --> 01:01:17,674
I mean, I've had nightmares
about that for years.

1231
01:01:17,757 --> 01:01:20,427
I was plagued
by the sound of his voice

1232
01:01:20,510 --> 01:01:21,928
asking me to help him.

1233
01:01:22,012 --> 01:01:24,264
And, you know, I-I just--

1234
01:01:24,347 --> 01:01:25,348
[sighs]

1235
01:01:25,473 --> 01:01:27,058
I couldn't do anything.

1236
01:01:27,767 --> 01:01:29,519
[operator]
You have one minute left.

1237
01:01:29,644 --> 01:01:31,396
[Joey] Ultimately,
my friend died,

1238
01:01:31,479 --> 01:01:33,064
'cause Jamie was my friend.

1239
01:01:33,148 --> 01:01:35,692
Um, and I feel terrible
about that.

1240
01:01:39,696 --> 01:01:41,239
I have pictures of him,

1241
01:01:41,823 --> 01:01:44,284
I think seven days
before the murder,

1242
01:01:44,367 --> 01:01:45,869
looking over my shoulder.

1243
01:01:45,994 --> 01:01:47,412
We were both smiling

1244
01:01:47,495 --> 01:01:50,832
and just like, we were friends.

1245
01:01:53,460 --> 01:01:57,005
I hate Mundt
because, ultimately,

1246
01:01:58,340 --> 01:02:01,927
he killed Jamie and really
destroyed my life too.

1247
01:02:02,469 --> 01:02:03,762
-Um--
-[operator] Goodbye.

1248
01:02:03,845 --> 01:02:06,223
[click, disconnect tone]

1249
01:02:09,976 --> 01:02:13,605
[producer] Why do you think Joey
asked me to reach out to you?

1250
01:02:13,688 --> 01:02:15,941
Well... [chuckles]
...I guess because

1251
01:02:16,024 --> 01:02:18,193
he wanted someone
to paint him in a good light.

1252
01:02:20,195 --> 01:02:22,072
Here's what's fucked up.

1253
01:02:22,197 --> 01:02:24,532
How long was that body there?

1254
01:02:24,658 --> 01:02:26,034
Seven months?

1255
01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:29,412
And neither one of them

1256
01:02:29,537 --> 01:02:31,581
took the opportunity

1257
01:02:31,706 --> 01:02:34,459
at some point to say, "Hey,

1258
01:02:34,542 --> 01:02:36,503
I'm living with crazy,

1259
01:02:36,586 --> 01:02:39,756
and, uh, and there's a dead guy
in my basement."

1260
01:02:41,591 --> 01:02:42,968
Neither one of 'em?

1261
01:02:44,219 --> 01:02:45,470
Fuck both of them.

1262
01:02:47,555 --> 01:02:51,393
What everyone forgets
is that Jamie Carroll...

1263
01:02:52,394 --> 01:02:55,772
died, and so I decided, like,
"I'm gonna do it for him

1264
01:02:55,897 --> 01:02:57,899
'cause he doesn't have a voice,
and I do."

1265
01:03:00,610 --> 01:03:02,445
[Erika] From what I've gathered,
the body

1266
01:03:02,570 --> 01:03:05,365
was very well maintained
because of the lime.

1267
01:03:05,448 --> 01:03:07,200
I'm glad it preserved him.

1268
01:03:07,284 --> 01:03:10,745
I'm glad he raised enough hell
from that little box so...

1269
01:03:10,870 --> 01:03:12,998
we could get him out. [chuckles]

1270
01:03:13,081 --> 01:03:16,334
Get him brought to where he
could be laid to rest properly.

1271
01:03:16,418 --> 01:03:18,545
[insects chirring]

1272
01:03:18,628 --> 01:03:22,090
[somber music playing]

1273
01:03:25,218 --> 01:03:26,678
I'm baffled.

1274
01:03:26,761 --> 01:03:28,179
I'm confused.

1275
01:03:29,055 --> 01:03:31,224
I don't know what made my friend
enter a room

1276
01:03:31,308 --> 01:03:34,811
with two people
that she barely knew,

1277
01:03:37,272 --> 01:03:38,606
and not come out.

1278
01:03:43,236 --> 01:03:45,280
[LeTonia] Jamie Carroll
should be alive,

1279
01:03:45,405 --> 01:03:47,282
and it doesn't matter,
drag queen,

1280
01:03:47,407 --> 01:03:49,034
drug dealer, or whatever.

1281
01:03:51,619 --> 01:03:54,497
I can be in a situation
that I think...

1282
01:03:55,290 --> 01:03:57,292
I'm just doing what I do,

1283
01:03:59,419 --> 01:04:01,254
and not be aware

1284
01:04:01,338 --> 01:04:04,174
of the danger that might exist

1285
01:04:04,257 --> 01:04:07,635
because of the toxicity
in the relationship,

1286
01:04:08,094 --> 01:04:11,389
and then find myself
in a really dangerous situation.

1287
01:04:14,351 --> 01:04:16,853
Yeah. That's the lie we tell
when we say it's just about

1288
01:04:16,978 --> 01:04:19,064
those two people
or it's none of my business.

1289
01:04:21,316 --> 01:04:23,651
What happens
behind those closed doors

1290
01:04:23,777 --> 01:04:26,654
finds its way into public spaces

1291
01:04:27,322 --> 01:04:29,324
and so it puts us all at risk.

1292
01:04:30,658 --> 01:04:32,285
That's the saddest part.

1293
01:04:32,369 --> 01:04:33,661
[chuckles softly]

1294
01:04:35,622 --> 01:04:37,832
The monsters really do exist.

1295
01:04:38,666 --> 01:04:39,876
[sniffles]

1296
01:04:46,674 --> 01:04:47,634
[inhales]

1297
01:04:47,717 --> 01:04:49,177
But we create our own,

1298
01:04:52,305 --> 01:04:53,598
with the drugs

1299
01:04:55,183 --> 01:04:58,228
and the lies and the bullshit
that we choose to live.

1300
01:05:00,230 --> 01:05:02,190
[sobs]

1301
01:05:06,361 --> 01:05:09,030
[soft, suspenseful music
playing]

1302
01:05:12,659 --> 01:05:14,994
[narrator] "There were
many things I did not know,

1303
01:05:15,078 --> 01:05:16,955
did not understand.

1304
01:05:17,038 --> 01:05:18,540
What it all meant.

1305
01:05:19,916 --> 01:05:21,918
Why people did
the things they did

1306
01:05:22,043 --> 01:05:24,129
or said the things they said.

1307
01:05:25,755 --> 01:05:30,218
What lingered behind the walls
of 1435 South Fourth Street

1308
01:05:32,178 --> 01:05:35,807
and what really happened
in the dark basement.

1309
01:05:35,890 --> 01:05:41,146
What lurked in the dark room
found in every human mind."

1310
01:05:48,903 --> 01:05:50,447
[music fades]

1311
01:06:09,924 --> 01:06:12,927
[soft, mysterious music playing]