[Suzy] This was one of the toughest stories I've ever done.
When there is a big train wreck,
you want to go look at it.
This was a train wreck with five babies lying
on the tracks.
-Andrea Yates. -Andrea Yates.
Andrea Yates called 911.
Authorities rushed to her home
only to find her five young children dead.
[reporters continue] Andrea Yates confessing to police
she drowned her children
one by one in the bathtub.
Everyone was horrified. A mother killed her kids?
One of the most heart wrenching tragedies
we have ever heard.
[reporters continue] How could a mother kill her own family?
[Suzy] Everyone was talking about it.
Neighbors are understandably stunned.
I felt so sorry for the children.
It really had to be a lot wrong with that woman's head.
[Suzy] They just immediately hated her.
This was a very evil and calculated woman.
Andrea Yates, she faces capital murder charges if convicted --
she could be put to death.
The number one question is, "Why, why, why?"
[Suzy] I wanted to find out what was the motive?
How could she do this?
Is this an act that is literally beyond
our comprehension to understand or to deal with?
When I got in that car down to Houston, I had no idea
what I was going to face.
[Oprah Winfrey] One of the most heartbreaking tragedies we have ever heard.
[reporter] Neighbors are understandably stunned.
[man] This mom's actions are a calculated act of evil.
[man #2] These events are beyond our ability to understand.
[Oprah Winfrey] Number one question... why, why, why?
In 2001, I was a freelance writer,
primarily concentrating on true crime.
When I was researching my book, "Breaking Point," I was starting
to get hints that, no, she wasn't this horrible,
evil person that was on the news.
Her neighbors were saying she was a people pleaser
and she was a caretaker.
And everyone said, "What a great mom!"
I was getting a totally different picture of Andrea.
But I knew there was more,
and I couldn't get the full story,
and it was driving me crazy.
I had a few confidential sources,
and one of them told me about this preacher that Andrea
was involved with,
and they called it a cult.
And then one day, I received these letters.
I was totally shocked. I didn't know they were coming.
And it was just sort of...
a mystery source that dropped them in the mailbox to me.
They were letters that Michael and Rachel Woroniecki
wrote to Andrea.
"I know you're frustrated, Andrea.
"I know things are not the way you would like them to be,
but you can change them."
[as Rachel] There will be a day when it is too late.
Andrea was searching. Andrea was lonely.
And through their letters back and forth,
Andrea could pour out her heart, her loneliness.
In 1999, Andrea wrote that Luke has been born.
And Rachel writes to Andrea,
"I have seen many women just continually put off
"their salvation in Jesus. Then, as the years slowly
slip by, so does any hope for them to be truly saved."
To read those letters was heartbreaking because it was
just nothing but how you're doing wrong...
and that there's... not any hope for you.
[as Rachel] If you allow Satan to come in and still be understanding,
the consequences will be tragic.
When I read those letters,
you kind of go, "It all makes sense now."
Why Andrea did this.
What was going on in her confused,
mentally ill brain.
Everything was pointing to this preacher named
Michael Woroniecki.
[reporter] According to the author of this new book,
letters written to Andrea Yates
by the Reverend Woroniecki and his wife
may have convinced Yates she was possessed by the devil.
[Suzy, archived] That is a way to -- you know, that God can use this,
and everything -- a loneliness,
-depression, anything, -was all separation with God in
alignment with Satan.
Basically If you go to college...
[David] I was watching the "Debbie Duncan" show,
and there was this lady who wrote a book
and she was talking about Michael
being involved in the Yates family.
How did they meet?
Uh, when Rusty was a student in college.
I learned that Rusty met Mike on campus just like I did.
He started corresponding just like I did.
Basically, anything and everything,
from what I gather, but the Woronieckis, are sinful.
-[woman] Women are evil... -Here's the thing.
I knew, you know, what happened to me,
you know, what he did to my life.
But it just, when it hit me, like, "Oh, no, this Andrea Yates
was so pressurized with that struggle for salvation
that she had to kill her kids.
And that's, what's like, "Oh, my god.
How far can this go?"
-Michael Woroniecki. -Fire and brimstone preacher.
The preacher is mimicking Satan himself.
[Moses] We watched the news coverage like a hawk.
It was all through the frame of, "These people are going to try
to bring Michael down." -It's going to hell!
It's going to the Lake of Fire!
[reporter] The man who's now under fire for what some claim is
destructive preaching. -A bunch of fools!
[Moses] Michael reached out to my mom initially.
He was like, "Hey, how are you?"
It was like...oddly nice.
It became pretty clear that Michael was afraid
that this would be pinned on him.
They had many conversations about God, Satan, and Hell.
Says, "Hey, they might bring me in to testify.
"The defense is trying to make the case
"that some of my teachings
may have led Andrea to do this horrific crime."
Michael Woroniecki's influence is dangerous.
[Moses] And then he was the most positive he's ever been
towards my mom.
He said, "God's told me that you're pretty close
to getting into the kingdom of heaven."
It was all damage control.
He was scared.
[reporter] The time has come for Andrea Yates,
the so-called "killer mom," to defend her actions in court.
[reporter #2] If convicted, she could be put to death.
[reporter #3] Yates' attorney, Wendell Odom with Yates' health records.
Those records detail a history of deep depression,
attempted suicide, and psychosis.
The Andrea Yates case was certainly
the most significant case I ever tried in my life.
When I saw Andrea Yates for the first time,
it was one of the most shocking things I'd ever seen before.
She had pupils that were giant and dark.
She would jerk her head around
and be looking at something behind her.
I've never seen anyone that mentally ill before in my life.
It was clear we need to start building an insanity defense.
All rise -- [indistinct], district court now in session.
The Honorable Belinda Hill...
I thought the whole time...
"How ridiculous is this?"
Here's a loving mother who would never, ever,
ever have harmed our children in any way,
had she not been psychotic,
and the state's prosecuting her for capital murder.
The defendant has pleaded "not guilty"
by reason of insanity.
[Wendell] Our strategy was to explain to the jury that this was
a psychotic episode created
because of postpartum depression.
If this woman doesn't meet
the test of insanity in this state,
then nobody does.
Zero.
[Wendell] We needed to explain that
she knew that what she was doing was illegal,
but she didn't know that it was wrong.
She may have believed because of her mental depression
that it was in the best interest of the children to drown them...
one after the other,
but that's not the law in Texas.
I'm asking you to vote in accordance with the law
and the evidence, and find her guilty as charged.
And I appreciate your attention.
[reporter] The defense and prosecution have both presented
their arguments in the Yates case.
After a month-long trial, the court rests.
Jurors face the task of deciding
whether this is a case of illness or intent.
Andrea Yates' fate rests in their hands.
All rise for the jury, please.
We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea Pia Yates,
guilty of capital murder.
[Wendell] After only 35 minutes of deliberations,
jurors said, "Andrea Yates should get life in prison,
not the death penalty."
[Rusty] Hearing the verdict,
I didn't feel like I could get up.
She's my wife, who I loved.
I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
[Wendell] During the trial, we didn't do as good a job as we should have
explaining her mental state,
including her faith-based beliefs,
which were provided by Woroniecki.
[David] After the trial, I was thinking that Michael Woroniecki
is not being held accountable.
He got a little bad press, and all that,
but he just marched on,
and no one knows the real story.
He's getting away with it.
I started thinking, "What do I do?"
I felt it was my social responsibility to inform
who this man is. And maybe...
that could help a lot of people.
So I called a local news studio
and told them that I have some information
on this preacher.
It's simple brainwashing. It starts off very innocent.
Your perceptions start altering, and pretty soon
you're sucked into a system.
I knew that Mike would be pissed.
I knew he would see me as a traitor,
that he would see me as a Judas.
I...
didn't know how far he would take his displeasure with me.
We all go to hell! Yeah!
[reporter] Tonight, preacher Michael Woroniecki
is responding to his critics and places the blame
on Rusty Yates for his wife's actions.
What about Rusty? I have never heard him once.
I heard him blame the hospitals, the clinics,
the postpartum depression, the drugs.
Could you ever stand up and say, "I'm looking
in the mirror and I'm seeing the guy who's responsible"?
I should have shepherded my wife.
-They visited you in Florida. -[Woroniecki] Right.
And you told them, according to Andrea Yates,
that they were going to hell.
I was Andrea's friend.
She had just had this experience with watching
a caterpillar become a butterfly.
And she left there with a tremendous hope
that things were going to change in their life.
[interviewer] She was a respected psychiatrist.
She said, flat out
that Andrea Yates never would have killed
her children if it were not for you.
That is ridiculous.
So if you go out and kill somebody, that's my fault?
if I know you, like this other guy that was on there?
You're talking about David De La Isla.
I knew that guy, what? 15 years ago.
For 15 minutes, I've been at McDonald's restaurant.
Just the fact that he's saying that he didn't really know me,
just was like, "Wow."
He said you communicated with him considerably.
He has a stack of letters, he said.
-Stack of letters? -From you...
I don't think a stack of letters.
...that said that he was living a not righteous life.
You're just a damn liar, you know?
Like, here is the stack.
This is a correspondence of about 12 years.
And so he knows me very well. That was the lie --
it's like, "No, you know exactly who I am."
When I found out that Mike had some sort of relationship
with Andrea Yates, I was dumbfounded, numb.
It was heartbreaking.
And I thought, I hope they're wrong about Mike Woroniecki.
Mike Woroniecki and I were born in Grand Rapids, Michigan,
on February 4th, 1954,
and we went through school together.
Grand Rapids is also known as the City of Churches.
Mike and I were both altar boys.
His dad was an usher in our church.
As a senior in high school,
Mike was an excellent football player.
He was the typical gung-ho jock,
confident to the point of being cocky,
liked being the center of attention.
[Woroniecki speaking]
[Steve] Mike goes to Central Michigan on scholarship,
and he, if not for some bad luck,
might have gone to the NFL.
[Woroniecki speaking]
He was all-in as a football player,
he was all-in as an evangelical preacher.
[Woroniecki speaking]
[Steve] He tried to get into different seminaries, but he was rejected
for being too fanatical, too earnest, too over the top.
[Woroniecki speaking]
And so he was gonna make his own way.
And he did wear that rejection as a badge of honor.
In the early 1980s, Mike's profile around town
grew exponentially.
[Woroniecki speaking]
God is gonna destroy this Earth and all you wretched sinners!
[Steve] He would stand outside of churches on Sunday morning
and tell the church-goers that they are going to hell.
It was totally aggressive, and it was obnoxious.
[Woroniecki speaking]
[Steve] He was scorned. He was ridiculed.
Probably everything he related to through
what Jesus went through.
[Woroniecki speaking]
Around that time, I started working
at the Grand Rapids Press as a police reporter.
So, reporting on him journalistically was awkward,
because we were still friends,
and he's arrested various times.
[Woroniecki speaking]
There was an event that was the straw
that broke the camel's back.
The Shrine Circus was an annual institution in Grand Rapids.
Mike was doing his preaching outside the ticket office,
and accosted a woman verbally about her religion,
about her faith. I interviewed her subsequently.
He roughed her up pretty good, according to her.
She was so upset, she wanted him to go to trial,
see him pay for what he had done to her.
But the city cut a deal with him
that he would leave town,
and that was the start of his worldwide tour.
I don't recall hearing from him for quite a while until Mike
became a prominent figure in the Andrea Yates story.
[phone ringing]
I get a call, and it's Mike.
He was unhappy with the story in the Grand Rapids Press.
He thought the story was slanted against him.
He said, "Come on, Steve, you know me.
We go way back."
It was the only time he ever asked me for anything.
And he said, "I would like you to publish my objections
to that press coverage."
And so, we do our interview.
Mike denied any culpability.
His defense was, "We love those kids.
"We would never
suggest that a mother should kill her children."
And he said they needed Jesus.
If the Yateses would have just listened to him and followed
how they should live their lives according
to his beliefs, this wouldn't have happened.
Over the years, I had done some research,
and the word "cult" occurred to me.
your failure, your wickedness to a holy God!
[Steve] Because of his charisma, his performance skills,
and all those things...
he could be a cult leader.
[David] I started thinking, how many victims are out there?
How many people are still under his spell?
And then I came across the first survivors website.
And I thought, "Wow, there's a lot more victims."
I first met Michael Woroniecki
on campus at Michigan State University.
For about a year and a half, I was very intensely enmeshed
with the Woroniecki cult.
I fell for what he was preaching,
hook, line, and sinker.
But then I realized, "No, the message is wrong.
The fruit is bad."
And Andrea Yates drowning her children is like
the most symbolic fruit
of his ministry you will ever get.
And so I started the website, "Michael Woroniecki,
the Ultimate False Prophet."
I put that site out there
in hopes of rescuing other people
involved with the cult.
I had thousands of views.
I got contacted by as many as 40 people.
And so, that's how I met David.
Reading similar stories from other survivors
and what they went through, it made me realize
that we were manipulated,
that we were deceived systematically,
that there was nothing flawed with me.
It was him who was the flawed one.
[Douglas] I believe that Michael Woroniecki should stand
accountable for it, and I believe he will
on the day of judgment.
I think I think it's a really good question to ask whether
Michael Woroniecki is a cult leader,
or if this particular belief system is a cult.
People oftentimes assume
that when you talk about the word "cult,"
that means that there's a compound,
but that's not necessarily true
based off of all of our definitions
on how to define a destructive cult.
It's a dedication to a particular person,
idea, or thing.
Michael is ultimately someone who does not want people
to think independently.
There is a clear pattern of indoctrination.
He's sending people personalized messages,
either audio or pamphlets.
Something that Michael does is, he really taps in
and utilizes and manipulates.
He creates this state of heightened emotionality
in his messages for people.
The effects of psychological manipulation and the effects
of this type of ideological religious control can leave
someone feeling trapped in a psychological prison.
The impacts of that can be extremely devastating.
[reporter] An appeals court in Texas
has overturned the murder convictions
of Andrea Yates because of false testimony
by an expert witness.
[reporter #2] A state expert claimed Andrea Yates
watched "Law and Order,"
and may have copied a plot
where a mother used postpartum depression
as a defense for drowning her children.
However, it was later proven
that no such episode ever existed.
[reporter #3] The ruling means Yates is entitled to a new trial.
[Todd] In June of 2006, I was requested to participate
in a jury for the State of Texas
versus Andrea Pia Yates, and I gasped.
It shocked me, and it scared me.
Everybody in Houston knew about this case,
and everybody had an opinion that I heard many, many times.
"Of course, she was crazy. She killed her children."
[reporter] With Andrea Yates set to stand trial once again,
will the court affirm her guilt, or will a new verdict
reshape the legal and moral reckoning of one
of the most harrowing cases in recent history?
The first day of trial, and really every subsequent day,
Andrea Yates would come into the courtroom quiet,
and shy and reserved.
[woman] The evidence will show you that she had been
contemplating the death
and the killing of these children
for approximately two years.
-That she knew it was wrong,
and that she knew she would be punished.
And that's what she told the police
on June 20th, of 2001.
There was a vast difference between the first trial
and the second trial.
This was a mental illness and a delusion
that she was acting.
We thought we needed to do a better job of explaining
what was going on in her head at the time.
In 2001, her illness had gotten so great...
that their lives were gone.
She wasn't worried about saving their lives anymore.
She was worried about saving their souls.
Explain how the delusion got formed.
[Woroniecki speaking]
[Wendell] And where she got the delusion
was from this faith-based relief
that Michael Woroniecki was espousing.
I first heard the name Michael Woroniecki
on the second week of the trial,
when the Woroniecki pamphlet, "The Perilous Times,"
was entered into evidence.
At this point, I was starting to realize that Yates'
religious beliefs were not necessarily mainstream.
This actually was something that was brought up
in the courtroom to give us some context as to the religious
beliefs of Andrea Yates.
"Modern Mother Worldly was very, very lazy.
"All of her children drove her crazy.
"Now the Bible told her to spank and train them.
So, if the Bible's telling modern mother worldly
"to discipline her children, but because she's not,
"on the Day of Judgment, she will have no plea.
"Modern Mother Worldly gets cast in Hell.
"Now, what becomes of the children
of such a jezebel?"
Because the delusion is still that she's a bad mother,
that the children are flawed, that they're going to hell
unless she sends them to heaven.
This really started to paint a picture for us
as to the mind of Andrea Yates.
So I knew that there was something about this Woroniecki
that needed to be paid attention to.
Dr. Resnick, who interviewed Andrea Yates
shortly after her arrest,
will take the stand today.
Mrs. Yates had a number of paranoid ideas.
She claims that she and the children
would watch cartoons --
the characters would speak directly to her,
telling her she was a bad mother.
Mrs. Yates believed that she was marked as evil.
She believed she had
"666" tattooed on her head.
And she believed that Satan was literally within her
and surrounding her and influencing her
during her psychotic period before the killing.
Michael Woroniecki lectured about Satan being
a very powerful force.
[Woroniecki speaking]
Michael Woroniecki is emphasizing how real Satan is
and how these demons and Satan will take over your mind.
[Woroniecki speaking]
So she clearly was strongly influenced
by Michael Woroniecki.
[Woroniecki speaking]
[Todd] His testimony was one of the most powerful,
I've never forgotten what Dr. Resnick stated.
"Andrea Yates' religion was the trellis upon which the ivy
of her mental illness grew."
Everything in her psychosis tied back
to her religious beliefs.
After the last day of testimony and closing arguments,
we went into the jury room.
We had eight jurors that believed she was not guilty
by reason of insanity, and four that claimed
she was guilty.
We were arguing, kind of back and forth,
about what she believed and what she didn't believe.
One of the most challenging aspects of this trial was
trying to get into the mind of Andrea Yates.
In order to ascertain whether or not she knew what she was
doing was wrong,
we did request a number of items,
including the pictures of the kids and a copy
of "The Perilous Times,"
which was the newsletter that we knew was
in the Yateses' home when the children were killed.
So we had been told that this picture,
this image that was brought into evidence,
was from "The Perilous Times,"
but that's all that we saw, right?
And in this limerick that was discussed,
was really the essence of everything,
but it wasn't --
it was a lot more,
and so this copy of "The Perilous Times"
was brought into the deliberation room.
"The eternity of my children is my accountability
"while they are children,
"and I would be sending them to hell
"if I raised them to think according to the standards
"of this world.
"By the time a child is the age of accountability,
"it's too late.
"By this time, the thinking of the world
"that you have taught them takes over.
God is going to hold you accountable."
[Moses] "The Perilous Times" is the most relevant media
to me in my life.
The highest stakes thing for you is, if you are a parent,
your responsibility is your kid's salvation.
There's a lot of pressure on parents to make their kids
obey, fall in line,
and the price to pay if you didn't do that,
you cause one of your kids
to go to hell.
[Moses] According to Michael's teachings,
a child becomes no longer a child.
They become no longer innocent.
If they're not saved before the age of 12,
which is the age of accountability,
you're going to hell.
[sniffling] I 100% believe all of this.
All of this.
I would be up, worried I was going to hell.
[woman] How old are you, Moses?
[Moses] My mom would often express to us
that if she found a way
that we all died, that would be a blessing
'cause if you die, I mean, you're going to heaven.
You're going to paradise.
[Moses] And so when I found out that they died,
it wasn't shock at all.
It was, "Ah, damn it, they did it.
They did it before us."
And what does this mean for me and my place in heaven?
That's why she did it.
She was saving her kids.
I don't want to admit this stuff out loud.
I don't...
[emotional sigh]
You know...
[Woroniecki] Jesus does single out one group...
children. He says...
It's better to tie...
...a heavy millstone. -...around your neck.
And ye be drowned in the depth of...
...the sea than to...
...cause one of these little ones...
who believe in me to stumble. -...stumble.
[Todd] In reading "The Perilous Times," I was shocked.
And I sat there shocked, and I told the jury,
"Hey, everything in her delusion
is in this newsletter."
She believed she was an unrighteous mother,
and this unrighteous mother had produced unrighteous children.
And those unrighteous children were going to burn in hell
unless they died before the age of accountability.
That was everything that we needed to hear to basically
understand why she did what she did.
But there was one holdout juror
who said we just can't forget the children.
It was an incredibly emotional moment for everyone.
So, on the last day of deliberations,
we did have a moment of silence for each of the children,
two minutes per child, where we reflected and prayed
and thought about what the magnitude
of what we were doing.
And afterwards, I got up
and wrote something on the board.
"It is a it is our job,
"our duty, to judge Andrea Pia Yates
"based on the facts presented into evidence
and the law given to us by the court."
"Let God judge her after that."
And after that, the last holdout said, "I want to vote."
[judge] Mr. Foreman, has the jury reached a verdict?
Yes, Your Honor.
Will you please pass them to the bailiff, please?
We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea Pia Yates,
not guilty by reason of insanity.
Signed, Todd Christopher Frank, foreman of the jury.
[Rusty] I thought, wow, the result of not guilty for reason
of insanity was quite a relief.
I was super, super grateful.
In many respects, she's a victim in all this
because she became ill --
we were unable to get adequate treatment for her.
She did this horrible, you know, thing that just
devastated all of us.
But, you know, I can't lose sight of the fact
that this wasn't her.
[David] Rusty came across the survivor's website.
This is an email that I got from Rusty saying that he found
one of Michael Woroniecki's tapes in the tape player
at the time of the tragedy.
It was called, "What is Truth?"
It's a tape I've listened to before many times,
Andrea Yates was listening to Mike
all the way up until that tragic day.
[Woroniecki speaking]
[David] But then Rusty would say things like,
"Mike had influence, but it was, you know,
Andrea was psychotic because of her depression."
I think that he wasn't aware that other people went through
some abuse from Michael.
[Rusty] Everyone responds a little differently, you know?
I've tried myself to think, "Well, how would life be
different if I'd never met him?"
Even outside of the tragedy, even just for me,
"How would my views have changed or be different?"
And I don't know.
[David] I was stunned.
I was in this cult for 12 years.
I was like, "Rusty, what are you talking about?
It's horrible. He ruins people's lives."
[Rusty] This is a news story about Andrea.
Couple has ties to an out-of-state religious group.
Andrea's brother says,
"To me, it was, kind of, a cult religion.
"They made statements like, 'Catholics were going to hell.'"
We're back with Karen Kennedy and Brian Kennedy,
the mother and brother of Andrea Yates.
What happened to that girl? -[Karen] Woroniecki --Satan.
[Brian] The preacher.
Andrea was introduced to him through Russell.
You paint him as part of the villain of the piece?
Oh, absolutely. He's always talking about the devil.
Everybody's going to hell. Everybody's a sinner.
And he preached to Andrea?
Yeah, but I mean, see, he's got some type
of a cult following.
[producer] What do you think about it being referred to as a cult?
Well, it could be seen that way.
But I mean...
I don't think it is.
It's a fine line, I'll admit that.
Hm.
Interesting.
[Andrea speaking]
[camerawoman] Rusty and Moses, take one.
[Rusty] I asked to talk to you
because there's a lot of things I just wanted to ask you
and get your advice on.
Your story and your family
has been such a significant part of my life.
This religion, this ideology, had absolutely fractured
our family and continues to affect us today.
Even though we have never had to face the pain
that you -- your family had to face.
This whole thing is like, it's the six of us,
and everybody else is going to hell basically.
-[Moses] Yes, you will be saved like in the days of Noah. -Yeah, yeah.
Uh, you become a -- you're a caterpillar,
you go into a cocoon, and then eventually
become a butterfly, and then you're saved,
that's what was told to us. -Yeah.
So it was like, how do you get
into Michael's favor? -Oh, yeah, that starts bordering
on manipulation, right?
I mean, if there's a carrot and there's a bar,
and the bar keeps going up... -Yeah.
...you never get there, so don't --
so for me, I thought, "OK, well, he's not God,
so I'm not gonna worry
too much about his heaven and hell speech."
How did you hear the same teachings
that my parents heard, and you took that from it?
I think it's a mistake I made with Andrea,
is that, you know, I was raised in a tradition
of, you know, grace and forgiveness,
not a tradition of hellfire... -[Rusty] Heaven and hell.
...and brimstone, right? -Black and white.
So when she heard this heaven and hell stuff, you know,
did it make her more concerned than she otherwise would have
been about her standing before God?
I think, of course, how could it not?
Your situation is probably more similar
to Andrea's than it is to mine.
[Moses] This helps me to just try to understand my own parents more.
And I love my parents.
I want to have a relationship with them.
You know, I see them.
I understand how they were taken advantage of.
Can I tell you something?
I 100% believed what the Woronieckis would say
and my parents' definition of God until I was 16.
And...oof...
when I found out what happened with your family,
I was...
I was jealous of your kids, because they didn't...
they...
in my definition of heaven,
they... yeah.
Oh, wow.
[sighs] Yeah.
Um...
And I'm sorry I felt that way,
because, obviously I know what you...
That's so irresponsible. I'm so sorry.
Uh, but yeah...
I guess I hadn't realized how much some have struggled
with and what the impact of his messaging has been.
But there are a lot of people whose lives took a completely
different route than they would have and who are still
suffering from emotional damage from that exposure.
And I had no idea.
Yours is an amazing story because it started so young.
You know, you were born into that.
*It's mostly a the conversation
we'd have over a beer, I hope.
I know, I'd love to have a beer.
-Yeah. -[Moses] Thank you, thank you.
-[indistinct], seriously. -No, likewise, yeah.
[Rusty] The tragedy in our family is related.
I think this has maybe helped expose a bit of a pattern
of manipulation with the Woronieckis.
They are so exclusive, they're going to heaven,
everyone else is going to hell.
I think that looking back,
I miscalculated the effect on Andrea.
Now, I believe her delusions could well have been influenced
by her exposure to the Woronieckis.
If I had to do it all over,
I would not have introduced her to them.
[melodic vocalizations]
[chuckles]
Whoa!
Happy Birthday, [indistinct]!
[Rusty] I'll never be able to love as freely as I did
before the tragedy. I'll try, but it's not easy.
-[man] Ignition and lift off. -[man #2] Yeah!
[Rusty] The way that I see it, we're this tiny blue dot
in an enormous universe that's barely a speck, you know?
That's the reality. That's what we can see.
It's a cold, harsh universe.
I hope this isn't it, you know?