[applause]
I took them where they needed to be.
I went with ogden, and we stopped by a tree.
We had a whole conversation about it.
That was a hatchet.
I know that they took the weapon out of the house.
That was something that I know was still there.
They took all of our weapons.
I know they have that.
I don't think anything was ever tested.
The only thing that was ever tested was the .22 rifle.
My .22 revolver was never tested.
She admitted that she was supposed to kill
Chris regan rather than jason.
We had to make sure that we had everything we needed
To get a murder conviction.
Reporter: Guilty on all counts in the death
Of 53-year-old christopher regan of iron river.
Man: Why do you need it soon?
Everything's for a reason, detective.
She wanted to make sure that she
Could never be charged with another homicide in indiana.
Woman: There's a bag and a composition book.
You can have that.
They're not here.
It says here that these items were released back to mr.
Cheboygan, kelly's father.
Man: There's a guy that was shot and killed in minnesota
Named jason reuter.
Jeremy ogden: Kelly's brother identified
Jason reuter as a possible victim of kelly's.
Would he have gone and met with somebody--
Yeah.
For, like, a weekend getaway kind of thing?
Yes.
You wouldn't see him for three, four, five days.
Jeremy ogden: If we're going to get anything,
Maybe it's going to be today.
Maybe she's going to give us another piece of the puzzle.
Here we go.
Let's see if she'll talk.
I'm over speaking to them because they never
Went about it the right way.
[car door slams]
It's over.
She said she chooses not to speak with me.
They said, you know, if I didn't have a warrant or a subpoena
To actually interview her, that she could refuse.
I didn't either.
It's exactly what I said to him.
It is frustrating for me.
When it's somebody like this, there's a lot of times you're
Not going to get what you want.
She's going to maintain whatever little bit of control
That she can, and the only thing she can do is say,
I'm not going to do it or I'm not going to talk.
I can't even tell you how frustrating this is.
In 2016, when I was investigating the murders
Of chris regan and jason cochran,
I had all of this information that laura
Had gathered up over a year and 10
Months before she even met me.
I had the upper hand.
And now she's refusing to talk to me when
I have additional information.
Maybe she has the upper hand.
This is not where you want to be with kelly,
Not when you need something from her.
Everything's a game to her.
The entire situation is always about control.
And this is the exact same game that she
Played with her husband.
Can we hear each other?
Jeremy ogden: Can you hear me?
Yeah, I can.
You know, like, the thing with jason,
You know, there was a good time.
And I really did care for him.
You know, I'm pretty sure that I--
I don't know if it was true love,
But I know I was in love with him.
The last thing that I remember that really showed me him was we
Were in the back doorway of the michigan house,
And he had, like, snapped.
And there was a look in his eyes that it
Was just-- it was hollow.
And that wasn't the man that I had loved.
That wasn't the man I knew all these years.
And I don't know if it was, like, a mental health thing.
I don't know--
I really don't know.
And that bothers me because, you know, I thought I knew him.
And I don't.
I have so many questions, and I'll never get the answers.
I don't know who he truly was.
Laura frizzo: These video chats that our producer has
Had with kelly in the prison, the way she's presenting herself
To him, this isn't even kelly.
This is, like, whoever kelly is trying to be today.
She wants him to believe that she was innocent.
But we know from the chris regan case
That she and jason worked together.
Jason's victims were her victims.
She's very manipulative, and she's enjoying it.
She lies, and I am supposed to believe her.
How do you trust someone who keeps feeding you
Bullshit as if it were candy?
I got hold of the hard drive from the iron river police
Evidence from that first search warrant and kelly
And jason's house in the upper peninsula.
I've been combing through it to see if I can find any old photos
Or emails, anything that could connect kelly
Or jason to a potential victim.
God, there's a ton of documents in here.
Laura frizzo: Let's see what this is.
But I came across something equally as disturbing.
Journal?
This is jason kind of journaling.
[wind whistling faintly]
Feeling hurt and betrayed.
The pain seems to keep growing.
The nightmares are wonderful and awful at the same time.
Jeremy ogden: Every time I close my eyes,
I picture horrible things that I want to do
To this asshole and his family.
But when I awaken, it's only a dream.
The sadness returns.
A few months into our relationship, the sabotage
Began--
Talking about her cheating and how it was the worst pain
He could ever experience.
All you see is misery in his writing.
I mean, he's just miserable every day.
I still love my wife.
I feel like she treats me like one of her endless scams
She pulls.
[intense tones]
Laura frizzo: I told my wife that betrayed
Me of what I wanted to do.
I was not going to hurt her.
I was going to hurt those that she used to hurt me.
He goes into detail about pulling his pocket knife out,
Seeing the fear in his eyes starting to show,
Grabbing hold of his hair, and cutting a chunk of his scalp
Off.
He screamed and cried, begging for his life.
All I could do was laugh while dangling his hair
And skin in front of him.
I find it hard to believe that he's able to put together
A story like this with this much detail,
Unless he's truly reflecting on a memory.
I could hear the bones and the teeth break.
I mean, he completely describes the changing
Of color of the washrag in his mouth
Due to the blood pouring out.
And look at this part--
I held the chunk of hair and flesh up to my head, saying,
What do you think?
Do you like me better with or without hair?
Jeremy ogden: His writings basically indicate that jason
Was a violent killer.
But we know that kelly was in control in that relationship.
Even if jason pulled the trigger,
Kelly was the mastermind behind chris regan's murder
And who knows how many others?
The evidence is there.
[slow dramatic music]
[clacking]
She's already injected him.
Probably within 5 to 10 minutes of that, he's in cardiac arrest.
You know, he's on his way to death at that point,
Incapacitated.
And she starts masturbating on the floor.
And all the while, he was looking at her.
That's the start of his death.
That loud snore, to me, that's so indicative of death.
I mean, I've heard it so many times.
I mean, because I've literally walked
In while people were dying.
I think that's why that video is so short,
Because he's like [grunting]
And that's it.
And it's done.
All she had to do was sit back and let him die,
And we wouldn't even be talking about this today.
But that wasn't within her because she's all
About control and manipulation.
And she wanted him to know that he died at her hands.
And she climbed on top of him and suffocated him.
It's pure evil.
That's what it is.
I mean, it's pure evil.
Anyone who looks at that can see within her the amount
Of absolute control that she exerted
Over him in his last moments.
Laura frizzo: Kelly said, these were jason's victims.
He killed them-- you know, all these people.
He was a monster.
And that doesn't make sense.
They killed together, just like in chris regan's murder.
And she was the mastermind.
Jeremy ogden: You have to think about
What happened on that night, and what she was doing,
And what was going on with him at the same time.
All of the planning came together
Exactly like she wanted.
Laura frizzo: When I worked the chris regan case,
I was obsessed.
There's really no other way to explain it.
And it's only because I knew I was on to something,
And I had to stay focused on it because no one else was.
I think that that level of drive or passion wears on a person
After a while.
And that's when the shit hit the fan.
After the trial, I was diagnosed with severe ptsd.
And I said, no, not me, because I'm a strong person,
So I didn't really believe it.
I think a lot of times that stuff can just stay on a shelf
Until something significant happens.
And it did for me.
I was constantly stressed and losing my temper at work,
And it just kept getting worse.
I just remember after the trial, I
Had actually taken my grandkids to lunch,
And I was in the restaurant.
It was noisy.
[faint chatter]
I'm sitting in the restaurant, I'm listening to kids.
Woman: Hi, kelly.
Woman: Hi.
Laura frizzo: And people and all kinds of sounds.
I felt like I had to get up and get out of there.
I had a hard time managing anything.
So I tried to forget kelly cochran and, you know,
Get a fresh start.
So as I'm living in indiana, and I'm trying to reset myself,
And just take a break from all the chaos, all of a sudden,
Jeremy and I receive a letter in the mail from kelly cochran.
It was addressed to both jeremy and I.
I mean, the first letter was a shock.
And from that point, kelly started sending letters to me.
She talked about who she is, why she is,
How she feels and doesn't feel, her relationship with jason,
Her husband.
After a while, I had to stop reading them for my own sanity.
I would take each one and just put it away.
I was done.
[cars whirring]
I found this stuff from iron river
And found the letters that kelly had written.
And take a look at this one.
This was February 19, 2019.
Holy crap.
Laura frizzo: It was just one piece of paper that had the name
Jason reuter written on it, his location of hastings, minnesota,
The date of his death, which was June 22, 2014.
This is what-- hope all is well?
Laura frizzo: And then just the initials "st."
And that was it.
St, what does that mean?
Knowing her, it's probably "stay tuned."
Oh, probably.
And it wasn't just one letter.
There were several letters that she mentions him.
In this one, she talks about jason reuter out of minnesota,
And she's added more information.
In most of the letters that she sent me,
She did a lot of talking about jason reuter
And how they met-- that they met on these dating sites online.
Here's another one.
We met on two separate chat dating sites.
He messaged me on both.
He was a perfect fit to my collection.
And she wrote about meeting up and sledding in wisconsin,
The same thing kelly's brother colton told jeremy back in 2016.
Colton said that he had done some research
And found jason reuter's photograph online,
And that he was 90%, 95% certain that it was the same guy that
Was in the photograph that kelly produced and showed
Him saying that she had met him up in madison, wisconsin area.
I think that she was involved in his homicide.
Jeremy ogden: I gave you jason number two, and you did nothing.
I feel like you wanted something more complex.
He was easy, but boring.
As for minnesota goes, I had told jeremy
That something happened there.
I didn't give him many details, but I gave him some.
Then was not the time.
They said I didn't do it.
Case closed.
Ha.
And she just goes on and on and on.
At the time, she was right.
There were things that we missed because we were more focused
On getting the conviction for the chris regan case
And getting jason's case filed.
Laura frizzo: I mean, listen to this one--
Reuter had some street smarts, but definitely not enough.
Of course, he was no chris.
He had amazing eyes though, right?
Blue is my favorite color.
In kelly's letters, she talks about how
Much she loves blue eyes and blue was her favorite color.
And she says jason reuter had big blue eyes.
And we know chris regan had big blue eyes.
And colton said something to jeremy that we can't ignore.
He had claimed that he wanted to kill me
And whatever man I was messing with.
Laura frizzo: Did kelly have her husband
Murder jason reuter as part of their marriage murder pact?
[gun shot]
I think, given all of this information here and everything,
We need to reach out to family, maybe
See if we can find out whether or not any personal information
That she may have included in here
Is real, some kind of intricate detail
That only the killer would know.
Laura frizzo: The details in these letters
Might be crucial to validate that kelly was
In contact with jason reuter.
Everything with kelly is just a piece to the puzzle--
Every letter, every interview, every hint that she
Thinks that we didn't catch.
But looking at everything with fresh eyes,
It's kind of all falling into place.
We need to go through all of the letters and try to get as many
Of the details that she provided within them,
And then reach out to hastings police department
And see what we can find out through them.
It'll all make sense eventually, right?
One of these days.
[intense music]
Man: There's talk about a second jason.
And it's been brought up about minnesota.
Can you talk about the second jason, anything
That you want to share about him, and/or what that's about?
When kelly gives her story to a producer,
She's in complete control because she's
Able to give vague answers.
Man: Do you know anything about that individual
Or that specific person?
She was referring back to me putting
Jason reuter's picture down in front of her
During the April 26 interview.
[door opens]
You know that guy?
Right after looking at the photo of jeremy reuter,
Something about her disposition changes at that point.
She has a strange reaction to the picture.
Jeremy ogden: But this all starts with colton.
He identified jason reuter as a possible
Victim of jason and kelly's.
Laura frizzo: Kelly's motivations have changed
A lot now that she's in prison.
She's got that plea deal that she could
Never be charged with any other homicides
In the state of indiana.
She doesn't want us looking at minnesota.
She doesn't want us finding anything in minnesota.
Her deal's only with indiana.
She has no protection in minnesota.
So I think she sent us those letters about jason reuter
Because she was gloating.
"they said I didn't do it.
Case closed.
Ha."
Laura frizzo: Bragging that she got away
With something in minnesota, and there was
Nothing we could do about it.
She'll play with you, but she's not going to help you.
I keep reminding myself that I used to get very
Frustrated because it was like, you know, like a roller coaster.
And there were many times where I was like, fuck it,
I'm giving up.
I can't do it.
And then, you know, then the next day I'm back at it.
We just have to keep that same kind of mentality, you know?
I made first contact with the chief at hastings.
He said that he was very interested
And wanted to put me in contact with the assistant chief.
Laura frizzo: I don't know. Yeah.
And then they were supposed to have an investigator call me,
And I haven't heard from them.
Why are people so passive?
You and I both know, if you had a homicide, especially something
You worked so hard on, and then you hit a wall.
And 10 years later, you have people calling you, saying,
We might have something.
And you sit there thinking, even if it isn't
Anything, at least it's something
To get us to take another look.
It gets to a point where you got to do what you got to do.
I think we need to just like, fucking get in the car
And go drive out there and see jeremy reuter.
We're going to meet with jason reuter's brother jeremy again.
And when we met with him before, we're
Asking jeremy these questions about his brother,
And he says he was on his phone constantly,
Meeting strange women, women he didn't know, going to wisconsin,
Going places that--
That he just kind of kept secret.
My brother would drive hours to meet girls, you know.
That I do know. I mean--
Well--
Through a weekend.
You wouldn't see him for three, four, five days.
That definitely went with what colton gaboyan had
Told jeremy in the interview.
She'd meet these guys, this jason in-- in wisconsin,
And they'd go sledding.
So this time, I want to ask him about our investigation,
Especially these letters.
Kelly wanted to keep throwing out little clues about him,
Like not giving us information as to what happened,
But definitely giving enough information to put herself
In the middle of his homicide.
Jeremy ogden: It's good to see you again.
Thank you.
So good.
So I reached back out to the hastings police department
Again.
Their chief said that he was more than willing to be
Involved and talk to us.
And he told me that he was going to have
The investigator contact me.
They haven't reached out to me yet.
But in the meantime, we're going to show you things that we
Think are important and why this has
Led us to talking to you now.
Ok. Yeah.
Jeremy ogden: Ok.
So this is colton gaboyan.
He's kelly's brother.
And this is the information he came forward with to me,
And this is how this all begins.
Ok.
Oh.
How come no one has reached out to me, you know?
Or--
Well, initially--
When you-- anybody heard this?
So we couldn't reach out to you
Because it's an open case being handled
By hastings police department.
So jeremy did the correct thing by contacting
The agency handling the case and saying,
This is the info we have.
I believe hastings sent a detective from michigan
To try and interview her.
But that person they sent didn't have all the ins and outs.
And we watched that interview, and
Unfortunately, I believe they didn't ask the right questions.
Wonder why hastings, or whoever,
Sent somebody up there to interview her,
Didn't let you guys handle it when you guys
Have been working with her.
A girl that can get away with doing something like that to all
These people, you don't think she's
Going to be able to talk circles around?
Right.
He tried to explain that.
Curfew cops?
It's a chess match the entire time with her.
I would understand that you're frustrated that something
More didn't happen back then.
But as an investigator, you-- you
Try to be very professional about how
You handle these things with the other agencies.
And that's exactly what I did.
Laura frizzo: There's something else I want to show you.
Kelly wrote me these letters from prison.
You're all right with that?
Jeremy reuter: Yeah.
Laura frizzo: Jeremy and I got this in the mail
Addressed to both of us.
And this is-- this is all it said.
Jeremy ogden: She mailed that to our home.
Laura frizzo: And as you can see--
Are you serious?
Laura frizzo: Yeah, here's the date.
It was February 19th of 2019.
"hope all is well"?
"we met on two separate chat dating sites.
He messaged me on both.
He was a perfect fit to my collection.
He had some street smarts, but definitely not enough.
He had amazing eyes though, right?
Blue is my favorite color."
Gosh, she's-- she's a psychopath.
Laura frizzo: Right.
She-- oh.
Laura frizzo: Yeah.
And we were able to establish that jason reuter did utilize
These dating sites frequently.
Laura frizzo (voiceover): Jeremy reuter
Told us that his brother would go to wisconsin frequently.
You're telling me he just was, for a while there, just
Meeting, going places, meeting all these people.
Mhm.
Yeah.
Laura frizzo: "I'll eventually validate everything.
That's always been my plan.
Time is very important to me, as is timing.
I want to be done with reuter and hastings.
I gave you something.
You give me something."
Then can't you guys give her something?
Just pretend you're going to give her something.
You know?
I mean, say you're going to give her something.
You know?
Say you're going to give her something,
And then just see what she does, you know?
I mean--
You understand why we're sitting here with you
Today, based off of what you--
What you-- what we've showed you?
Jeremy reuter: Yep.
And I feel like there--
That she really could have something to do with it.
It hurts.
My life was starting to get better--
Not that I ever forgot about him,
But it was more living with happy memories of my brother.
Now I get to lay in bed at night and think about her,
And what she did, and how she did it.
And you know, that's going through my head.
Jeremy ogden: I think that you have to be very much in control
Of that and understand that there's nothing that you, or I,
Or anyone else can do, anything about her controlling a secret.
We are going to go down the path as much as we can to try
To get resolution in it.
Yeah.
We'll continue to look at everything
And try to provide you and your families,
You know, with the answers that you deserve.
You could see the pain in his face.
I'm glad you reached out to me.
Well, thank you again.
Jeremy reuter: Yeah.
Thank you guys so much.
Thanks.
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): And I don't take any of that lightly.
I feel for the entire family.
Because they want answers.
So I'm glad that we were able to give them the answers.
Producer (on recording): So I'm going to throw as many questions
As I can to you and just see how you can respond.
Jeremy ogden: One of our producers engaged kelly right
At the beginning of this case.
I think that it's great that he's remained in contact
With her and engaged in that dialogue,
Hoping that she'll create a storyline
And make mistakes to do with other victims.
Producer (on recording): In regards to your husband, jason--
They've been reading a lot of jason's materials--
And jeremy said, I remember kelly
Telling me a lot of this stuff, and I didn't believe her.
And now I believe her, from reading
All this stuff about jason and what his capabilities are.
Do you feel that jason had the capability to commit
More murders than just chris?
Yeah, he did.
Well, he had actually taken me to deep river
When I had taken ogden there.
I don't remember the date.
We had went out there.
And I said I wanted to show him something.
Well, when me and jason went walking years ago,
We went to deep river and he had showed me an area.
And I had actually said something to him--
To ogden-- at that point, but I don't think
They ever took it serious.
Producer (on recording): What are they looking for?
Any kind of like, biological evidence of any sort.
Producer (on recording): So you're
Saying deep river is not one of the wild goose chase scenarios?
No, absolutely not.
I just feel like there could have been more accomplished.
But they chose not to--
I don't know, maybe he chose not to follow
Up because it was a runaround.
I don't know how she criticizes
Not taking her seriously.
I mean, she took me there and jacked me around the first time,
And then I still went back two more times with her after that.
Jeremy ogden: Where are we going?
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): Back in 2016,
Before she was arrested, kelly claimed jason had killed a man
And dismembered him at deep river park in hobart.
Jeremy ogden: Where are we going?
Kelly cochran: The other side, past this little bridge thing.
Jeremy ogden: Right there is where he put him?
Kelly cochran: I'm gonna go see around here.
Right there.
Jeremy ogden: Where at?
Right there?
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): While we were out in the woods
Going through this area, she specifically said,
It's not far from this tree.
Kelly cochran: This is actually, probably, this tree.
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): I kind of let her walk ahead of me,
And I hacked an x into the tree relatively deep.
Initially, I was a little fearful
Because I was very concerned that she was luring
Us into a place of ambush.
Whether or not she would leave a weapon hidden within the woods,
Ultimately take us down to an area
Where something would occur.
Ever since kelly brought me there back in 2016,
I had a strong suspicion about it.
I do think something's in deep river.
Something's buried in that area.
That's why we're going back.
Today, we're going to take out canine teams to deep river park.
These dogs are trained in human remains detection.
I don't give very much information
When it comes to anything I'm asking you to do.
I'm just simply going to walk into the wooded area,
And I'm going to let you go to work.
Jeremy ogden: If in fact, we were to get an indication
Or an alert, we very well may be doing some excavation of deep
River park, looking for possibly another
Victim of jason and kelly's.
Are you ready?
Another blow out?
Yep.
That's two.
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): We get to the spot
That I had marked with an x eight years ago, and right away,
Canine rosie, she blew the scent out.
And what they're doing is is they're
Overwhelmed with the odor that's within their nose.
So they blow it out, and they try to get
Back to their indication odor.
These dogs are trained in finding
Human remains or decomposition from blood on murder weapons.
The fact that she is going into odor
Makes me believe that there may be something here.
The first dog was detecting something in the area right
Near the tree that I marked.
But I think we should just see how the-- the next dog works it
Out.
Hmm.
There you go.
Yeah.
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): And the next dog
Behaved the same way.
Every single dog went straight to the-- the mark,
And none of them knew where the mark was.
Right.
When someone buries a victim, the decomposition is occurring.
And throughout time, that odor is just coming up.
And it's actually part of the vegetation and the growth.
The dogs will go in, and they start biting saplings
And they bite them and snap them off.
The dog is releasing the odor that's
Growing up through the sapling into the air.
It's not just simply going to be right at the location
Where the victim is buried.
But all of our dogs worked all the way down to the tree
That I put the x on.
Jeremy ogden (voiceover): This is validation.
There's a body or a murder weapon buried in that area.
I think that we should go back after all the vegetation is
Down, and see if we can get some ground-penetrating radar ran
Over that area.
Other people, other victims are out there.
I mean, I know that.
Laura frizzo (voiceover): From the first time I met kelly--
- Hi, kelly. - Hi.
Laura frizzo: Hi.
Laura frizzo (voiceover): I knew her goal was to throw us off.
She definitely wasn't going to give anything to us easy.
After chris regan went missing, I had nothing.
But I would never quit.
And I think it's that same kind of endurance
That needs to be had now.
Jeremy ogden: It all comes back to this for me.
I believe that the real names of the victims
Are within all of the names.
Woman: Gary caldwell, dylan from chicago.
Daniel--
Man: Daniel-- jason--
Jeremy ogden: And she very well could have this real list right
Here in front of her in mid-air that she can only see,
That has the names, the locations, and the dates.
And she's substituting a bit and a piece
Here or there that she wants me to figure out.
All along she's been playing this game.
But there's more.
We owe it to the families of the victims
To chase down all of these leads, even
The ones that might be lies.
Jeremy ogden: But this is just the beginning.
Kelly cochran: Nobody knows.
And that's fine.
I mean, that's how it's supposed to be.
So I want to tell the story, and I want
To be the one that tells it.
I'm so tired of hearing everybody else.
[tense music]