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Downloaded from
YTS.LT
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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.LT
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Okay, nice and quiet.
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All right, let's roll sound.
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- Roll camera.
-Scene one, take one.
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Roll it.
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Set.
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And set.
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I guess a phone call
wakes me up.
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Oh, the alarm didn't go off?
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I think I just slept
through the alarm.
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I set it for 8:30,
because at 9:00
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Jacqueline de Mornay
from Elle Magazine was coming.
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She was staying
at the Chelsea,
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and her English
was not too good.
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And she was coming
for pictures of Lauren Hutton.
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So it's 9:00 and the phone rings
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and it's Jacqueline,
and she says,
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"Is it okay to come
in 20 minutes?"
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And I say, "Yes, it's perfect."
And I hop out of bed.
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I put the coffee water on and,
and the phone rings again
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and it was Susan Sontag.
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She said, "Are you awake?"
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And then she heard the radio
and said, "Oh yeah."
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She said, "I want to go
see your show today."
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She said, "I'm sure it's good."
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That she couldn't imagine it
not being.
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And that she was going
to Paris either today
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or tomorrow
and she might not make it
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to the show.
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So I told her about the guy
from the gallery calling
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and asking,
did I know Max Kozlov
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or Susan Sontag?
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Why?
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Actually, what I told her
was a lie.
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I'll tell you
the other version.
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It was only a slight altering,
but it did reveal something.
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You-- you mean he didn't
mention her name?
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Mm-mm.
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No, I guess I found myself
namedropping with him.
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Like uh, he called and said,
did I know Max Kozlov?
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And I said,
"No, I know who he is."
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And he said, "Do you know
how to get in touch with him?"
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And I said, "No."
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He's doing um, a photo magazine
and he wants somebody
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to write an introduction
or something.
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And I said,
"Well, I don't know Max Kozlov.
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Why don't you ask Susan Sontag?"
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And he said, "Oh, you know her?"
And I said, "Yes."
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That's what happened.
That's the way it happened.
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I don't uh-- I didn't want
to say that to Susan.
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Uh, and she said,
"No, I don't want to do it.
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I only write what I have to
or for friends."
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You're not a friend?
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Well, this wasn't for me.
This was for this magazine.
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She said it very sweetly.
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And I said,
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"Well, I wanted you to know,
because if you go
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to the gallery today
and this guy approaches you,
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I didn't bother calling you."
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And she said,
"I'm glad you didn't."
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And then she said a big kiss.
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There was no beginning
to that sentence.
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She said, I think sometimes
she even might have called me
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"darling", like a big kiss
and then a space
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and then darling.
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Goodbye.
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And then I get my coffee
and I go sit at my desk
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and it's not even 20 minutes
and there's a knock on the door
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and it's the Elle girl.
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Now somehow in this time
I've had the fantasy
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of being seduced
by the Elle girl.
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Had you met her?
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No, but that she was gonna
come in
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and it would be like
in a French movie
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and she would walk in
and be right
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in the middle of the floor.
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Hm.
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And she'd be very raunchy
and reach for my buttons.
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That was just one
of the fantasies I had.
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I thought it might be terrific
right then in the morning.
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Very French.
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So she comes in
and she's short.
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She's wearing this long cape
and she's very sort
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of that French chic,
not arty, but sort of almost.
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Mmhmm.
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And she comes in and she says,
"Hello, I'm Jacqueline."
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And uh, I say, "Hi, come in."
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And she says,
"Oh, you live here?
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Ooh, this is your studio, too?
Very nice."
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Because somehow
she liked the place.
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Sometimes people come in
and say, "Did you just move in?"
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Or uh, "It'll be nice once
you get it fixed up."
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You want something to drink?
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No, and I say, "It is fixed up."
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And then I said,
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"These are the pictures
of Lauren Hutton."
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And she says,
"Oh, they're wonderful.
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They're not like
those of Avedon."
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Because Lauren Hutton
is beautiful,
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but she looks like a boy,
you know,
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in her Levi's and sneakers.
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And I say, "How much
are they going to pay?"
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And she said,
"Oh, I don't know."
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The article's gonna be
four pages
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and she doesn't know
whether they're gonna use
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one picture or four pictures.
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So I said,
"Well, what's your page rate?"
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And she doesn't know.
I almost got suspicious.
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I thought this could be some--
some fan of Lauren Hutton's
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who's doing this great scheme
to steal pictures
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of Lauren Hutton.
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What was she supposed to be,
an editor?
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Yeah.
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I wouldn't mind losing pictures
to someone who would...
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But I'd love to get money.
Four pages.
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Yeah.
That should be quite a lot.
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Could be a lot of money.
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Yeah, well, she should know
how much.
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Yeah, I would have thought
as an editor
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she should know how much,
especially as she was sent
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for the pictures.
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I'm really trying very hard
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to be a businessman
to some degree at least.
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I think you have every right
to know
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before you give her
the pictures.
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Yeah.
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I used to go
to the other extreme.
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And I would give them
the pictures
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and they would leave with them
and I wouldn't say anything
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about money.
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And I would hope
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that I would get a check or--
but I did ask her
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and she didn't know.
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And she said that she'd be back
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on the 7th of January
and that she'd call me.
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Where was she going?
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Back to France.
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On Susan's plane?
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I don't know.
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Yeah, the same plane.
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So then she took the pictures
and I said, "Okay",
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and she also.
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And then I said,
"Let me just write your name."
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And I got the name
as D-E capital M.
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And she said,
"No, not the big M."
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So then I put the pictures
in an envelope
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and she said goodbye,
and I said goodbye,
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and then she left.
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Never to be heard from again.
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I almost feel like
she was there less time
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than it took me
to tell the story.
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So I'm having my coffee
and I decided to figure out
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how much money is owed me,
because it's getting fuzzy.
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So I added up all the definites
that I know that I'm getting.
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300 for this restaurant job,
but I apparently will get 450.
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So in one column I put
absolutely definite 300
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and in the other I put $450.
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Hopeful.
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It's very possible.
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And it came out to,
absolutely definite was $825.
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And that's not including
the Village Voice piece,
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but that still
could possibly happen.
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- I mean, it's due next week.
- Well, that is definite.
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Yeah.
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I mean, a week from today.
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Yeah, the next issue.
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How much of the tape
is gone already?
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Uh, a third.
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00:09:01,708 --> 00:09:05,170
I don't know whether
to give more or less detail.
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00:09:05,254 --> 00:09:06,296
It's good.
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00:09:07,297 --> 00:09:08,257
Okay.
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00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:09,299
So is it boring or?
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00:09:09,383 --> 00:09:11,301
No, it's not boring to me.
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00:09:11,385 --> 00:09:13,053
So then Bob Mony calls.
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00:09:14,179 --> 00:09:15,055
He does indexing.
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00:09:16,473 --> 00:09:18,976
But he's a piano player.
He plays the harpsichord.
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00:09:19,059 --> 00:09:19,935
He's really so good.
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00:09:20,018 --> 00:09:22,354
He does it like
six hours a day.
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00:09:22,437 --> 00:09:23,730
He asks if I know Lily.
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00:09:23,814 --> 00:09:25,065
Who?
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00:09:25,148 --> 00:09:26,942
Lily, who used
to be Clydine Malleck.
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Oh, right.
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00:09:29,194 --> 00:09:30,988
Paul gave her the name of Lily.
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- Paul did it?
- Hmm.
186
00:09:32,531 --> 00:09:33,740
I didn't know Paul did it.
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00:09:33,824 --> 00:09:35,659
I thought some
great master did it.
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00:09:35,742 --> 00:09:37,744
Oh no, this was no great master.
189
00:09:38,620 --> 00:09:42,582
I went there
for a gay men's weekend,
190
00:09:42,666 --> 00:09:44,334
and really,
it's an IBM modern religion.
191
00:09:44,418 --> 00:09:46,378
Did you see the ad they put
in the Voice with all bodies
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00:09:46,461 --> 00:09:47,504
piled one on top of the other?
193
00:09:47,587 --> 00:09:48,755
All done in this kind
of Design Research way.
194
00:09:50,090 --> 00:09:52,509
It's really quite chic
with these beautiful brown rugs,
195
00:09:52,592 --> 00:09:56,430
no, green rugs
and brown walls,
196
00:09:56,513 --> 00:09:59,641
and uh,
these great bean bag chairs,
197
00:09:59,725 --> 00:10:01,351
and Design Research furniture,
198
00:10:01,435 --> 00:10:05,397
and nice tables,
and it's really quite affluent.
199
00:10:06,273 --> 00:10:08,108
I mean, it's not
in the least bit poor.
200
00:10:08,191 --> 00:10:08,650
- It's tacky.
- What?
201
00:10:08,734 --> 00:10:10,360
Tacky.
202
00:10:10,444 --> 00:10:12,154
It might be tacky
on a certain level.
203
00:10:12,237 --> 00:10:13,780
But it's affluent.
204
00:10:13,864 --> 00:10:15,532
In the sense
that they have money.
205
00:10:16,450 --> 00:10:18,160
We are about money.
206
00:10:18,243 --> 00:10:19,244
We are modern.
207
00:10:21,246 --> 00:10:27,210
Anyway, he wants to know
if I have Lily's phone number.
208
00:10:27,294 --> 00:10:29,421
Because Lily is going
to Rome to meet Paul.
209
00:10:29,504 --> 00:10:31,131
And she wanted
to go to Paul's house.
210
00:10:32,174 --> 00:10:33,383
Bob Mony is
a neighbor of Paul's.
211
00:10:33,467 --> 00:10:34,134
In New York?
212
00:10:34,217 --> 00:10:36,261
Yeah, his New York apartment.
213
00:10:36,345 --> 00:10:38,096
Alan Lloyd lives
across the hall
214
00:10:38,180 --> 00:10:39,348
from Bob Mony's apartment.
215
00:10:39,431 --> 00:10:40,766
Yeah, I knew Alan was in there.
216
00:10:40,849 --> 00:10:43,060
Alan Lloyd has the keys
to Paul's apartment.
217
00:10:43,143 --> 00:10:44,227
Don't know where Alan was.
218
00:10:44,311 --> 00:10:47,898
Bob Mony thought that Alan was
at his Aunt Phoebe's.
219
00:10:47,981 --> 00:10:50,025
- I've heard that name before.
- Phoebe Lloyd.
220
00:10:50,108 --> 00:10:51,651
Yeah, I told you the weird
thing about that, didn't I?
221
00:10:51,735 --> 00:10:53,612
That-- that Linda Lloyd,
if she had a girl,
222
00:10:53,695 --> 00:10:56,198
she was gonna name
her Phoebe Lloyd.
223
00:10:56,281 --> 00:10:57,491
Anyway.
224
00:10:59,493 --> 00:11:04,206
I give him her home number
and her Arrica phone number.
225
00:11:04,748 --> 00:11:08,960
And how are things,
see ya, goodbye.
226
00:11:11,546 --> 00:11:13,882
At this point, my plan
is to go back to bed.
227
00:11:14,758 --> 00:11:15,926
What time is it about?
228
00:11:16,009 --> 00:11:17,928
About 10:15.
229
00:11:18,011 --> 00:11:20,138
I wanted to get rid
of that girl.
230
00:11:20,222 --> 00:11:22,099
And go back to sleep
until 11:30.
231
00:11:26,061 --> 00:11:27,729
Then Ed Baynard called.
232
00:11:27,813 --> 00:11:29,106
Did you go back to sleep?
233
00:11:29,189 --> 00:11:30,774
No, I was just about to.
234
00:11:31,858 --> 00:11:33,944
It was 10:15
and Ed Baynard calls.
235
00:11:34,027 --> 00:11:35,779
And he says, "Are you busy?"
236
00:11:36,488 --> 00:11:37,697
I say, "Yes."
237
00:11:38,573 --> 00:11:40,117
And he says, "Call me back."
238
00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:43,412
And I say,
"No, I have a minute."
239
00:11:44,329 --> 00:11:45,497
And he says, "Call me back."
240
00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:47,207
And I say,
"Now is the best time."
241
00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:48,417
And he says,
"We're not getting through
242
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:49,501
to each other."
243
00:11:49,584 --> 00:11:51,420
And I say, "No, I am busy, Ed.
244
00:11:51,503 --> 00:11:53,422
But I will be
much busier later."
245
00:11:53,505 --> 00:11:55,048
And he says, "Are you working
in the darkroom?"
246
00:11:55,132 --> 00:11:56,007
And I say, "Yes."
247
00:11:56,091 --> 00:11:57,134
Oh, oh, oh,
248
00:11:57,217 --> 00:11:59,761
now I know every time
I call and you say--
249
00:11:59,845 --> 00:12:02,347
No, I really cannot stand
to talk to Ed Baynard.
250
00:12:02,973 --> 00:12:05,142
I can't get off the phone,
no one can.
251
00:12:05,225 --> 00:12:07,769
He won't let you off,
he's the master of it.
252
00:12:08,478 --> 00:12:11,440
And he also doesn't listen.
He's totally insane.
253
00:12:12,899 --> 00:12:15,193
If this ever gets printed,
I hope it's printed
254
00:12:15,277 --> 00:12:16,027
with his name.
255
00:12:16,111 --> 00:12:17,821
What do you mean if? When.
256
00:12:18,655 --> 00:12:19,739
I mean this part.
257
00:12:19,823 --> 00:12:21,533
I really want you
to use real names.
258
00:12:24,327 --> 00:12:27,456
And he said, "Anyway,
well, three things."
259
00:12:27,539 --> 00:12:28,915
Does he always have a list?
260
00:12:28,999 --> 00:12:31,126
No, I guess he concised it.
261
00:12:31,209 --> 00:12:33,044
"Fred McDarrah is reviewing
262
00:12:33,128 --> 00:12:35,672
the gallery and I'm not
reviewing your show."
263
00:12:35,755 --> 00:12:37,966
You mean if Fred
was doing it instead?
264
00:12:38,842 --> 00:12:39,634
Yeah.
265
00:12:40,552 --> 00:12:42,345
And I said, "Oh."
266
00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:45,223
And he said, "I think he's doing
it more reviewing the gallery."
267
00:12:45,307 --> 00:12:48,268
And I said, "Too bad,
'cause Ed Baynard was gonna
268
00:12:48,351 --> 00:12:50,854
review the show and not mention
Christopher Makos",
269
00:12:50,937 --> 00:12:52,439
which I thought was terrific.
270
00:12:52,522 --> 00:12:54,816
But I guess it is his show.
271
00:12:56,151 --> 00:12:58,320
Did I tell you they offered me
another show in January?
272
00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:00,989
She called me and said,
"Can you get a show together?"
273
00:13:01,072 --> 00:13:02,908
- And I said, "No."
- Oh, yeah?
274
00:13:02,991 --> 00:13:05,035
I don't want
to let any shit out.
275
00:13:05,118 --> 00:13:08,622
Well, you-- you have to decide,
you have to look around.
276
00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:10,624
I mean, in terms
of like a gallery,
277
00:13:12,125 --> 00:13:15,462
if I have a show,
I want it to be like,
278
00:13:17,255 --> 00:13:18,715
like the group of pictures.
279
00:13:19,883 --> 00:13:21,551
Which was, I think,
quite together.
280
00:13:23,637 --> 00:13:25,138
Whatever I do,
I think that was the best
281
00:13:25,222 --> 00:13:26,097
of what I do now.
282
00:13:26,181 --> 00:13:27,265
There wasn't a bad
photograph in there.
283
00:13:27,349 --> 00:13:28,141
Right.
284
00:13:28,225 --> 00:13:28,975
Quite reputable.
285
00:13:29,059 --> 00:13:30,143
Extremely.
286
00:13:30,227 --> 00:13:33,271
So I was annoyed,
but I said, "Oh, well."
287
00:13:33,355 --> 00:13:34,648
Cool.
288
00:13:34,731 --> 00:13:36,066
What else could I say?
289
00:13:37,651 --> 00:13:40,028
He said, "Second
I quit the Voice."
290
00:13:40,111 --> 00:13:40,862
Why?
291
00:13:41,821 --> 00:13:45,033
'Cause Ed wrote an article
about Lilo and her photography,
292
00:13:46,034 --> 00:13:48,245
but they didn't want Ed
to use his name,
293
00:13:48,328 --> 00:13:49,996
but to publish
under Allie Anderson's name
294
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,207
as the editor of the centerfold,
because she said
295
00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:53,708
it was getting too inbred.
296
00:13:53,792 --> 00:13:55,627
And he said,
"Inbred, white bread."
297
00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:56,670
Really good.
298
00:13:56,753 --> 00:13:57,879
Somehow, I didn't really think
it mattered.
299
00:13:57,963 --> 00:13:59,798
I mean, so what
if your name's not on it?
300
00:14:01,591 --> 00:14:04,344
Third on the list
was Christmas Day.
301
00:14:04,427 --> 00:14:06,721
He said, "What are you doing?"
I said, "I don't know yet."
302
00:14:09,182 --> 00:14:12,102
And he said, "Well,
we're having a thing here,
303
00:14:12,185 --> 00:14:14,354
and it'll be just people."
304
00:14:14,437 --> 00:14:15,188
And I said, "Oh."
305
00:14:15,272 --> 00:14:17,190
With no geese, no ducks.
306
00:14:17,274 --> 00:14:21,111
He said,
"Well, Bill Elliot, Lilo."
307
00:14:21,194 --> 00:14:22,571
Yeah, the same old inbred crowd.
308
00:14:22,654 --> 00:14:24,447
I think he meant,
like the real people.
309
00:14:24,531 --> 00:14:25,740
It just does.
310
00:14:27,492 --> 00:14:28,785
And I said, "Well, I have
to get back
311
00:14:28,868 --> 00:14:30,161
to the darkroom now."
312
00:14:31,871 --> 00:14:36,418
And-- and I go back to bed
with my clothes on.
313
00:14:37,961 --> 00:14:39,546
I had made the bed earlier
314
00:14:40,255 --> 00:14:41,923
for Jacqueline de Mornay
to be neat.
315
00:14:42,007 --> 00:14:43,550
I wanted to appear neat.
316
00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:45,927
So I just slipped
317
00:14:46,011 --> 00:14:47,804
under the blanket
with my clothes on.
318
00:14:47,887 --> 00:14:49,723
You fall asleep so easily.
319
00:14:51,182 --> 00:14:52,267
Well, I was tired, yeah.
320
00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:53,518
Obviously.
321
00:14:55,186 --> 00:14:59,316
I set the clock for 11:30
and I fall right asleep.
322
00:15:00,025 --> 00:15:01,359
What a life.
323
00:15:03,737 --> 00:15:08,366
I stay in bed till 11:45,
and then I put my clothes on.
324
00:15:08,450 --> 00:15:10,035
I thought you hadn't
taken them off.
325
00:15:11,578 --> 00:15:12,996
Oh.
326
00:15:13,079 --> 00:15:15,040
I guess I didn't.
I just lied.
327
00:15:16,166 --> 00:15:17,125
Well, you--
you must have taken something.
328
00:15:17,208 --> 00:15:18,335
Maybe your shoes.
329
00:15:18,418 --> 00:15:20,337
I guess I put my shoes back on.
Something.
330
00:15:21,212 --> 00:15:24,132
Anyway, I go
and make another cup of coffee
331
00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:27,677
and two pieces of toast
with raspberry jelly.
332
00:15:27,802 --> 00:15:31,389
And now I'm going to call
Allen Ginsberg at exactly noon.
333
00:15:32,432 --> 00:15:34,684
Because he does
his meditations.
334
00:15:34,768 --> 00:15:35,685
And they told me to call him
335
00:15:35,769 --> 00:15:38,063
either after 11:00 at night
or at 12:00.
336
00:15:38,104 --> 00:15:40,523
So it's exactly 12:00,
and I call him.
337
00:15:40,607 --> 00:15:41,816
It's busy.
338
00:15:42,859 --> 00:15:44,194
So I put my red jacket on,
339
00:15:44,277 --> 00:15:47,030
and I go downstairs
to buy cigarettes.
340
00:15:47,113 --> 00:15:51,159
And I break a $10 bill,
and I give her also a penny,
341
00:15:51,242 --> 00:15:53,662
because the cigarettes
are 56 cents.
342
00:15:53,745 --> 00:15:54,829
God, they are?
343
00:15:54,913 --> 00:15:57,582
I come back up,
and I call Allen Ginsberg,
344
00:15:57,666 --> 00:15:58,833
and it's still busy.
345
00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:02,504
Then at about 12:20,
346
00:16:02,587 --> 00:16:07,133
I finally get through
and a male voice answers.
347
00:16:07,217 --> 00:16:10,428
And I say,
"Is Allen Ginsberg there?"
348
00:16:10,512 --> 00:16:15,809
And he says, "Who's calling?"
And I say, "It's Peter Hujar.
349
00:16:16,434 --> 00:16:17,852
And I'm supposed
to take pictures
350
00:16:17,936 --> 00:16:20,563
of Allen Ginsberg
for The Times."
351
00:16:20,647 --> 00:16:22,816
And the male voice says,
"It's Peter Hujar
352
00:16:22,899 --> 00:16:24,359
from The Times, Allen."
353
00:16:25,318 --> 00:16:28,113
And Allen comes
to the phone and says, "Hi."
354
00:16:28,196 --> 00:16:31,157
And I say, "Hello."
And he says, "Who's this?"
355
00:16:32,909 --> 00:16:35,036
And I say, "It's Peter Hujar.
And I leave out the part
356
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,288
about The Times,
because he knows that already.
357
00:16:37,372 --> 00:16:39,958
And I say, "I'm supposed
to photograph you."
358
00:16:40,041 --> 00:16:42,168
And he says, "Fine."
359
00:16:43,044 --> 00:16:45,922
And I say, "What about today?"
360
00:16:46,005 --> 00:16:48,299
And he says, "Good. Today."
361
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:50,343
And I say, "When?"
362
00:16:50,427 --> 00:16:51,970
And he says, "This afternoon."
363
00:16:52,053 --> 00:16:53,304
And I say,
"How about in an hour?"
364
00:16:53,388 --> 00:16:55,098
And he says, "Fine.
365
00:16:55,181 --> 00:16:56,558
Or even three quarters
of an hour.
366
00:16:56,641 --> 00:16:58,351
I'm just gonna
get something to eat."
367
00:16:58,435 --> 00:17:00,729
And I mentioned something
about a portrait.
368
00:17:00,812 --> 00:17:06,401
And he carries on about,
it's just like them, portraits,
369
00:17:08,361 --> 00:17:12,031
he didn't say old-fashioned,
but some word that made it sound
370
00:17:12,115 --> 00:17:14,993
like they were really,
these people are still doing
371
00:17:15,076 --> 00:17:17,579
portraits in the paper.
372
00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:20,373
The whole tone
was very unpleasant.
373
00:17:20,457 --> 00:17:22,417
And I said, "Well,"
and he said, "Well,
374
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,336
you better call The Times
and tell them we can't do that."
375
00:17:26,129 --> 00:17:30,925
And I said, "Well,
let's not worry about it.
376
00:17:31,009 --> 00:17:33,094
Let's just do what we can.
377
00:17:33,178 --> 00:17:36,431
And you don't have to do
anything you don't want to do.
378
00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:38,224
As long as you're
in the picture, we'll do it."
379
00:17:38,308 --> 00:17:41,603
And he said, "No.
You better call The Times."
380
00:17:41,686 --> 00:17:42,604
And I think I got really tough.
381
00:17:42,687 --> 00:17:45,607
I said, "Look,
it's very strange."
382
00:17:45,690 --> 00:17:48,318
What are you worrying about?"
I said, "Don't worry about it.
383
00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:50,445
We'll just do it
how you want to do it.
384
00:17:50,528 --> 00:17:51,738
It's okay."
385
00:17:51,821 --> 00:17:53,573
And he says,
"I just want to make it clear."
386
00:17:53,656 --> 00:17:55,158
And I said, "Look,
it really doesn't matter.
387
00:17:55,241 --> 00:17:57,869
They just want a picture.
There are no orders.
388
00:17:57,952 --> 00:17:59,245
You have to do a portrait."
389
00:17:59,329 --> 00:18:01,414
So I said, "Okay,
I'll see you in an hour."
390
00:18:01,498 --> 00:18:03,750
Does he still live
on the Lower East Side?
391
00:18:03,833 --> 00:18:06,419
Yeah, and he gives me
the address,
392
00:18:06,503 --> 00:18:10,215
which was 10th Street
between C and D.
393
00:18:10,298 --> 00:18:11,633
And he says,
you know where that's at?
394
00:18:11,716 --> 00:18:13,134
And I say, "Yeah,
I know where that's at.
395
00:18:13,218 --> 00:18:14,844
I live down here, too."
And he says, "Oh, where?
396
00:18:14,928 --> 00:18:17,639
And I say, 2nd Avenue
and 12th Street",
397
00:18:17,722 --> 00:18:19,641
which suddenly
doesn't quite make it.
398
00:18:19,724 --> 00:18:21,059
It feels like
the Upper East Side.
399
00:18:21,142 --> 00:18:22,685
The guy's up there
in a fancy neighborhood.
400
00:18:23,978 --> 00:18:25,980
So I get
my camera stuff together,
401
00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:27,440
and I have to decide
what coat to wear
402
00:18:27,524 --> 00:18:28,817
to the Lower East Side.
403
00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:31,277
And somehow,
404
00:18:31,361 --> 00:18:34,656
I think I'll wear my long,
whatever it is, coat.
405
00:18:36,074 --> 00:18:38,159
And I leave with that,
but then I decide,
406
00:18:38,243 --> 00:18:39,536
"No, it's wrong."
407
00:18:39,619 --> 00:18:41,704
And I don't quite know
what the criterion is here,
408
00:18:41,788 --> 00:18:42,956
but it just didn't feel the coat
409
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,416
to wear to the Lower East Side
to meet Allen Ginsberg.
410
00:18:46,417 --> 00:18:48,086
I also had a flash
that there was something sort
411
00:18:48,169 --> 00:18:51,172
of bohemian poet about it,
and I'd be much snazzier
412
00:18:51,256 --> 00:18:52,215
in my red ski jacket.
413
00:18:52,298 --> 00:18:53,800
Oh, good choice, yeah.
414
00:18:53,883 --> 00:18:56,052
I just think it's more
like Lower East Side.
415
00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:59,806
Oh, before I leave,
I water the plants.
416
00:19:02,976 --> 00:19:03,977
And at this point,
417
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:05,520
I'm not exactly sure
what time he called me.
418
00:19:05,603 --> 00:19:07,188
Who called?
419
00:19:07,272 --> 00:19:08,439
Allen Ginsberg.
420
00:19:08,523 --> 00:19:10,483
But I talked to Allen Ginsberg.
421
00:19:10,567 --> 00:19:14,279
So that hour of getting ready,
I couldn't quite remember
422
00:19:14,362 --> 00:19:15,905
when that was.
423
00:19:15,989 --> 00:19:18,616
But anyway, I watered the plants
before I left.
424
00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:20,243
Do you have a watering can?
425
00:19:21,369 --> 00:19:22,495
No.
426
00:19:22,579 --> 00:19:25,290
The coffee pot,
which I fill up in the tub,
427
00:19:25,373 --> 00:19:27,083
because the pressure
is much quicker.
428
00:19:35,466 --> 00:19:37,051
Then I walked
to Allen Ginsberg's,
429
00:19:38,553 --> 00:19:41,306
down 2nd Avenue
and straight across 10th Street,
430
00:19:41,389 --> 00:19:43,391
past Fred and Simona Tuten's
and those other people,
431
00:19:43,474 --> 00:19:44,684
that writer critic?
432
00:19:44,767 --> 00:19:46,352
-John Gruen?
- Yeah.
433
00:19:47,186 --> 00:19:48,646
But Ginsberg's
like two more blocks
434
00:19:48,730 --> 00:19:51,357
further down where it
really gets to looking dismal.
435
00:19:51,441 --> 00:19:53,735
And this Puerto Rican
had yellow paint
436
00:19:53,818 --> 00:19:56,529
all over his hands,
really thick
437
00:19:56,613 --> 00:19:58,197
smeared down his nose
438
00:19:58,281 --> 00:20:01,159
like he'd sprayed himself
with chrome spray paint,
439
00:20:01,242 --> 00:20:02,243
orange, yellow.
440
00:20:02,327 --> 00:20:03,369
And his shirt
441
00:20:03,453 --> 00:20:06,748
and his hands were just all--
and on the face
442
00:20:06,831 --> 00:20:09,417
it was much lighter,
it was a little more spread out.
443
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:11,794
So it was like this glow
on his face.
444
00:20:11,878 --> 00:20:13,796
But then he wiped his nose
and there was this streak.
445
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,465
Was he just standing
on the street?
446
00:20:15,548 --> 00:20:17,342
Uh, he came out
of the building
447
00:20:17,425 --> 00:20:19,761
and he looked at me
almost like nasty.
448
00:20:19,844 --> 00:20:22,931
And I thought, "Oh,
he can tell, an alien."
449
00:20:23,014 --> 00:20:25,266
I almost felt fancy down there.
450
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:26,935
The neighborhood intimidates me
way in there.
451
00:20:27,018 --> 00:20:29,437
It's very frightening,
so rundown and dreary.
452
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,606
Yeah, it's like the Bronx
where my Aunt Pauline lives.
453
00:20:31,689 --> 00:20:34,567
I don't have any real fear,
but it's very uncomfortable
454
00:20:34,651 --> 00:20:35,777
to go down there.
455
00:20:39,614 --> 00:20:42,742
Anyway, I get to his house
and I go to apartment 4C
456
00:20:42,825 --> 00:20:44,494
and I knock three times
on the door.
457
00:20:44,577 --> 00:20:45,703
He told you to?
458
00:20:45,787 --> 00:20:47,705
No, I just-- I just did.
459
00:20:48,623 --> 00:20:52,335
And uh, Peter Orlovsky opens
the door wearing his tam,
460
00:20:52,418 --> 00:20:54,462
and his hair is still
down the back of his neck.
461
00:20:55,630 --> 00:20:59,133
And he's really like,
45 years old,
462
00:20:59,217 --> 00:21:01,094
like an old Polish man.
463
00:21:01,177 --> 00:21:02,387
And I don't know
whether he had it before,
464
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:03,429
but you know those moles
465
00:21:03,513 --> 00:21:05,306
that are skin-colored
with hair.
466
00:21:05,390 --> 00:21:06,265
Hmm.
467
00:21:06,349 --> 00:21:07,642
Like old people have
on their faces?
468
00:21:07,725 --> 00:21:09,310
He's got two of them
on his cheek.
469
00:21:10,144 --> 00:21:13,982
And he's uh, he's heavier.
470
00:21:14,065 --> 00:21:15,817
It's not really like it's fat.
471
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:16,609
It's like it's--
472
00:21:16,693 --> 00:21:17,652
Looks like he's getting older.
473
00:21:17,735 --> 00:21:21,072
Yeah, there's a lot
of gray in his beard.
474
00:21:21,155 --> 00:21:22,991
And he says,
"Allen's on the phone.
475
00:21:23,074 --> 00:21:24,075
Sit down."
476
00:21:24,742 --> 00:21:27,620
And I don't know what I expected
of Allen Ginsberg's apartment,
477
00:21:27,704 --> 00:21:31,207
but it was really the most
rundown tenement
478
00:21:32,041 --> 00:21:34,377
with uh, tenement furniture,
479
00:21:34,460 --> 00:21:38,673
linoleum,
a few sort of Indian things,
480
00:21:39,424 --> 00:21:43,678
a mattress on the floor,
Bob Dylan poster on the wall,
481
00:21:44,971 --> 00:21:46,931
Rolling Stones.
482
00:21:47,015 --> 00:21:48,558
Oh, there was
some guitars around.
483
00:21:49,392 --> 00:21:52,145
And oh, and there was
a girl there
484
00:21:52,228 --> 00:21:55,648
with a very New York accent,
around 22.
485
00:21:55,732 --> 00:21:57,400
She was just sitting around?
486
00:21:58,317 --> 00:21:59,902
Uh, they were addressing
Christmas cards.
487
00:21:59,986 --> 00:22:01,029
Oh.
488
00:22:01,112 --> 00:22:02,030
And they went back
to addressing Christmas cards.
489
00:22:02,113 --> 00:22:03,948
She was helping them do theirs?
490
00:22:04,032 --> 00:22:04,907
Mm.
491
00:22:07,368 --> 00:22:08,369
Allen was on the phone.
492
00:22:08,453 --> 00:22:10,163
You're assuming something
that we don't know.
493
00:22:11,456 --> 00:22:14,542
Whether she lived
with them or I couldn't tell.
494
00:22:14,625 --> 00:22:16,127
I think they were
involved somehow.
495
00:22:16,210 --> 00:22:18,546
I also had the feeling
that Allen actually lives more
496
00:22:18,629 --> 00:22:21,132
in the country
and that Peter lives there
497
00:22:21,215 --> 00:22:22,967
with this girl.
498
00:22:23,051 --> 00:22:24,177
That was my guess.
499
00:22:25,053 --> 00:22:27,138
He's on the phone
talking about Ellsberg.
500
00:22:27,221 --> 00:22:28,765
Oh, what was he saying?
501
00:22:28,848 --> 00:22:30,433
I really wasn't
that interested somehow.
502
00:22:30,516 --> 00:22:32,518
I could have listened,
but I didn't bother.
503
00:22:33,561 --> 00:22:36,606
And then he got off the phone
and he said,
504
00:22:36,689 --> 00:22:38,733
"Hi, want some tea?"
505
00:22:39,609 --> 00:22:41,444
And then he said,
"No, let's go right now",
506
00:22:41,527 --> 00:22:42,487
before I had the chance.
507
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,072
And I said, "No, look,
you want a cup of tea?
508
00:22:44,155 --> 00:22:45,948
I'd like one",
because I didn't want
509
00:22:46,032 --> 00:22:47,200
to go right out to the site.
510
00:22:48,201 --> 00:22:51,245
So we have a cup of coffee
and Hibiscus calls
511
00:22:51,329 --> 00:22:53,623
and he says, "Hello, Hibiscus."
512
00:22:55,041 --> 00:22:57,376
And when he gets off the phone,
he's being very cool
513
00:22:57,460 --> 00:22:58,753
and uh, suspicious.
514
00:22:58,836 --> 00:23:00,630
Does he have a big beard
and everything?
515
00:23:01,964 --> 00:23:04,342
Yeah, it's like an Indian,
really out like this
516
00:23:04,425 --> 00:23:06,260
and he's bald on top.
517
00:23:06,344 --> 00:23:08,012
He has these glasses
with wire rims.
518
00:23:08,096 --> 00:23:09,305
He used to have
those dark glasses.
519
00:23:09,388 --> 00:23:11,891
Yeah, I have a nice picture
of him with Gregory
520
00:23:11,974 --> 00:23:13,267
that Gregory gave me.
521
00:23:13,351 --> 00:23:14,519
I'd like to see it.
522
00:23:16,687 --> 00:23:17,980
And then I asked him
something like,
523
00:23:18,064 --> 00:23:20,817
"What's with Hibiscus?"
And he asked him.
524
00:23:20,900 --> 00:23:21,859
You know Hibiscus?
525
00:23:21,943 --> 00:23:22,819
Yeah.
526
00:23:23,653 --> 00:23:28,407
"Oh, show, where, when,
527
00:23:28,491 --> 00:23:29,784
how's your love life?
528
00:23:29,867 --> 00:23:32,912
Good. The same one? Goodbye."
529
00:23:34,789 --> 00:23:39,085
And uh, and then I said uh,
530
00:23:39,168 --> 00:23:40,878
"Does he still have
the same boyfriend?"
531
00:23:41,754 --> 00:23:43,506
And he said, he still does.
532
00:23:44,882 --> 00:23:46,634
And uh, then he said,
533
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,513
"I was in an angel show
in San Francisco."
534
00:23:50,596 --> 00:23:52,974
And I said, "I was
in an Angel show here.
535
00:23:54,433 --> 00:23:57,812
I was Mother Goose
and I looked like Vivian Leigh",
536
00:23:57,895 --> 00:23:59,313
but he doesn't respond at all.
537
00:24:00,731 --> 00:24:03,776
I almost feel like everything
I'm saying wasn't even heard.
538
00:24:08,698 --> 00:24:12,743
And then we go out
and go to this
539
00:24:12,827 --> 00:24:15,037
burned out building
where he was mugged
540
00:24:15,121 --> 00:24:18,958
and he stands there
and he points at the door.
541
00:24:19,041 --> 00:24:20,877
Is he wearing an Indian robe?
542
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,045
No, Levi's.
543
00:24:25,715 --> 00:24:28,259
Oh, he says he has
the same clothes
544
00:24:28,342 --> 00:24:30,344
as when he was mugged.
545
00:24:30,428 --> 00:24:32,263
And I said, "I don't think
it really matters."
546
00:24:34,182 --> 00:24:38,936
And he says something
about something I forget.
547
00:24:42,648 --> 00:24:44,775
So we go there and I say,
"It looks like something
548
00:24:44,817 --> 00:24:47,612
out of an Italian comic book",
pointing that way.
549
00:24:48,404 --> 00:24:51,824
I couldn't remember fumetti,
but it somehow had that look.
550
00:24:52,909 --> 00:24:55,828
I say, "You really want to look
that way in the New York Times?"
551
00:24:55,912 --> 00:24:58,206
And he says,
"I want the people to see."
552
00:24:59,415 --> 00:25:01,167
And he somehow ties it up
with all these
553
00:25:01,250 --> 00:25:04,128
burned-out buildings,
boarded-up windows
554
00:25:04,212 --> 00:25:05,713
and people still living there.
555
00:25:05,796 --> 00:25:07,256
It's very desolate and strange.
556
00:25:07,340 --> 00:25:08,466
Right in his neighborhood.
557
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:09,800
Yeah.
558
00:25:09,884 --> 00:25:12,595
And the buildings
are burned out, whole floors,
559
00:25:12,678 --> 00:25:14,972
like these people
are being burned out.
560
00:25:17,016 --> 00:25:18,517
And he points at a building
and says,
561
00:25:18,601 --> 00:25:20,603
"Tuli Kupferberg lives there."
562
00:25:21,979 --> 00:25:23,940
And I didn't quite know
what to say to that.
563
00:25:25,650 --> 00:25:26,901
I thought,
"I guess I should tell him
564
00:25:26,984 --> 00:25:29,612
I photographed Tuli Kupferberg,
but I don't really want to."
565
00:25:31,656 --> 00:25:32,865
But I do.
566
00:25:32,949 --> 00:25:34,825
I say, "Oh, I photographed him
when he was with The Fugs."
567
00:25:36,869 --> 00:25:38,871
Then he points
at the butcher's shop
568
00:25:39,914 --> 00:25:42,458
and says, "That was
the Peace Eye bookstore.
569
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:44,168
You can take a picture
of me in it, so I can send it
570
00:25:44,252 --> 00:25:45,753
to Ed Sanders."
571
00:25:45,836 --> 00:25:47,421
So I do that.
572
00:25:47,505 --> 00:25:50,007
And he says,
"Can you get all this stuff in
573
00:25:50,091 --> 00:25:51,550
that's charred?"
574
00:25:51,634 --> 00:25:53,010
And I say, "Sure, sure."
575
00:25:53,094 --> 00:25:56,264
Is-- is he still suspicious
or has he warmed up?
576
00:25:56,347 --> 00:25:57,265
No.
577
00:25:58,766 --> 00:26:00,393
And I say,
"Oh, it looks real arty."
578
00:26:00,476 --> 00:26:02,687
Standing in the burned out
butcher's shop window
579
00:26:02,770 --> 00:26:04,522
with his arms crossed, chanting.
580
00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:05,731
Yeah. Om.
581
00:26:06,649 --> 00:26:07,566
Yeah.
582
00:26:07,650 --> 00:26:10,945
He kept doing the
om, om, om, pum, tum.
583
00:26:11,028 --> 00:26:13,197
And then we go to the doorway
across the street.
584
00:26:14,949 --> 00:26:16,701
And he sits down
in the lotus position
585
00:26:16,784 --> 00:26:18,786
looking very Buddha,
586
00:26:18,869 --> 00:26:21,706
right in the doorway,
and he starts to chant.
587
00:26:21,789 --> 00:26:24,041
And I really think, "Well,
I can't interrupt God."
588
00:26:24,125 --> 00:26:27,586
I can't say,
"Can you please stop that?
589
00:26:27,670 --> 00:26:29,463
Do you really want
a picture sitting
590
00:26:29,547 --> 00:26:30,464
in the doorway?"
591
00:26:30,548 --> 00:26:32,174
- Yeah, he does, though.
- He does, though.
592
00:26:34,260 --> 00:26:38,597
And uh, then this girl
and Peter walk by
593
00:26:38,681 --> 00:26:41,892
and he waves and says,
"Come have your picture taken.
594
00:26:41,976 --> 00:26:44,061
We haven't had a picture
together in a long time."
595
00:26:45,688 --> 00:26:47,481
So I think it's just gonna
be the two of them,
596
00:26:47,565 --> 00:26:50,318
but then the girl gets in, too,
so it's the three.
597
00:26:51,694 --> 00:26:54,322
I somehow thought it might
be interesting to have a picture
598
00:26:54,405 --> 00:26:56,157
of one of the longest marriages.
599
00:27:02,872 --> 00:27:05,416
Oh, when I had my coffee,
this goes back,
600
00:27:07,251 --> 00:27:09,587
the girl said,
"There's no sugar."
601
00:27:10,588 --> 00:27:12,715
But then she did find
a single sugar pack,
602
00:27:12,798 --> 00:27:15,134
because she said,
"Honey is so awful in coffee."
603
00:27:15,217 --> 00:27:16,010
Ouch.
604
00:27:17,136 --> 00:27:18,596
I like it. It's good.
605
00:27:21,223 --> 00:27:22,850
And we finished taking pictures
on the street
606
00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:25,019
and I don't really know
what else to do there.
607
00:27:25,102 --> 00:27:27,188
And at one point I said,
"You're talking to me
608
00:27:27,271 --> 00:27:29,648
like I'm the New York Times
and I'm not",
609
00:27:29,732 --> 00:27:30,983
because he kept throwing
in things
610
00:27:31,067 --> 00:27:33,486
about the ownership
of The Times' connections
611
00:27:33,569 --> 00:27:35,863
with the oil interests,
and I just couldn't care less.
612
00:27:35,946 --> 00:27:37,239
I mean, the details
are like something
613
00:27:37,323 --> 00:27:39,950
out of a soap opera
that's not very interesting.
614
00:27:40,034 --> 00:27:41,494
And he said,
"But you work for The Times."
615
00:27:41,577 --> 00:27:43,496
And I said, "No, this is the
first job I've gotten
616
00:27:43,579 --> 00:27:44,413
for The Times."
617
00:27:44,497 --> 00:27:45,998
And suddenly,
that's much better.
618
00:27:47,708 --> 00:27:50,127
And I asked to take
some portraits of him
619
00:27:50,211 --> 00:27:52,713
at home just for me,
and he said, "Sure."
620
00:27:52,797 --> 00:27:55,091
What, to do right then
and there?
621
00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:56,133
Yeah.
622
00:27:57,218 --> 00:27:59,720
And we walked back to his house
and stopped at a vegetable store
623
00:27:59,804 --> 00:28:01,639
on the corner of Avenue C.
624
00:28:03,849 --> 00:28:06,936
And a car crashed
into the back of a truck.
625
00:28:07,853 --> 00:28:09,063
And it turns out, the story,
626
00:28:09,146 --> 00:28:11,690
that the guy who crashed
into the truck
627
00:28:11,774 --> 00:28:13,317
was going the wrong way.
628
00:28:14,276 --> 00:28:15,653
He doesn't have
a license or anything.
629
00:28:15,736 --> 00:28:18,614
It's probably a stolen car,
and the police took him to jail.
630
00:28:20,658 --> 00:28:22,952
He buys three persimmons.
631
00:28:24,829 --> 00:28:26,372
And he says,
"Have you ever eaten these?"
632
00:28:26,455 --> 00:28:27,665
And I say, "Yeah,
I don't like the way
633
00:28:27,748 --> 00:28:28,582
they feel in my mouth.
634
00:28:28,666 --> 00:28:30,501
They have that awful
chalky feeling."
635
00:28:31,419 --> 00:28:32,628
And he says,
636
00:28:32,711 --> 00:28:34,422
"Oh, I just really got into them
only a couple months ago",
637
00:28:36,132 --> 00:28:38,217
something about vitamin C
or something.
638
00:28:38,926 --> 00:28:41,303
And I say, "Have you ever
seen them on a tree?
639
00:28:42,596 --> 00:28:45,141
They were on the tree
after all the leaves fall off."
640
00:28:45,975 --> 00:28:48,519
And he's not listening
to this at all.
641
00:29:00,072 --> 00:29:02,032
"Let me go upstairs."
642
00:29:02,116 --> 00:29:04,034
And I say, "Why don't
you sit over there?"
643
00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:07,830
And he sits down
in a lotus position
644
00:29:07,913 --> 00:29:08,914
and starts chanting.
645
00:29:08,998 --> 00:29:11,208
Oh, he's a compulsive chanter.
646
00:29:11,292 --> 00:29:13,794
Looking with this kind
of nowhere look.
647
00:29:13,878 --> 00:29:17,631
He doesn't see me at all.
He's just focused into...
648
00:29:18,382 --> 00:29:19,675
Um-land.
649
00:29:21,135 --> 00:29:23,387
And then I say,
"I don't like that background."
650
00:29:24,430 --> 00:29:26,223
So I move him.
651
00:29:26,307 --> 00:29:28,642
Just to move him,
just against another wall.
652
00:29:31,061 --> 00:29:34,398
And then I say, "Why don't you
pay attention to me?
653
00:29:35,483 --> 00:29:36,734
Check me out."
654
00:29:38,194 --> 00:29:40,696
And he starts to do that,
but then he gets into listing
655
00:29:40,779 --> 00:29:44,867
like who really runs the country
and the top 10 corporations
656
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:46,202
and oil.
657
00:29:47,328 --> 00:29:48,871
And then we're interrupted
by a call
658
00:29:48,954 --> 00:29:51,874
and it's all talk
about William Burroughs.
659
00:29:53,125 --> 00:29:54,668
And I think...
660
00:29:54,752 --> 00:29:56,795
Here's my chance.
661
00:29:56,879 --> 00:30:00,132
I just throw this in,
which I somehow did.
662
00:30:02,510 --> 00:30:04,887
But I find it hard not to be.
663
00:30:06,764 --> 00:30:07,640
It's almost as if
664
00:30:07,723 --> 00:30:09,683
I felt I better show
some credentials.
665
00:30:10,851 --> 00:30:12,645
So I said, "I'm photographing
him tomorrow."
666
00:30:12,728 --> 00:30:14,355
And he said, "Oh, how come?"
667
00:30:15,689 --> 00:30:18,359
It's almost as if
everything I said...
668
00:30:22,238 --> 00:30:23,322
"I met him at lunch."
669
00:30:24,281 --> 00:30:27,243
"Where?"
"Felicity Mason's."
670
00:30:27,326 --> 00:30:30,287
"When?"
"Three weeks ago."
671
00:30:30,371 --> 00:30:31,455
What, did he approve?
672
00:30:31,539 --> 00:30:32,456
No.
673
00:30:32,540 --> 00:30:33,666
Sounds horrible.
674
00:31:33,726 --> 00:31:37,021
And then he said,
"Oh, you can get
675
00:31:37,104 --> 00:31:39,023
some interesting pictures
out of Bill."
676
00:31:41,233 --> 00:31:42,610
And I said, "Oh, really?"
677
00:31:44,278 --> 00:31:46,196
And he said,
"Yeah, suck his cock."
678
00:31:49,283 --> 00:31:52,661
And I said, "It would be better
if I brought him
679
00:31:52,745 --> 00:31:54,872
a prep school boy."
680
00:31:54,955 --> 00:31:56,457
And he said,
"Oh, you could do that.
681
00:31:57,458 --> 00:31:59,126
As Burroughs loves
682
00:31:59,209 --> 00:32:01,920
those prep school waspy boys
with the neckties."
683
00:32:03,672 --> 00:32:07,801
I thought it was strange,
out of nowhere.
684
00:32:07,885 --> 00:32:08,969
What, the sucking the cock?
685
00:32:09,053 --> 00:32:10,220
Yeah.
686
00:32:11,096 --> 00:32:13,599
It's different
from his chanting image.
687
00:32:20,064 --> 00:32:23,108
He took a certain relish
in like, being naughty
688
00:32:23,192 --> 00:32:24,318
or something.
689
00:32:25,069 --> 00:32:27,488
Almost felt like
it had an edge of, come on.
690
00:32:30,491 --> 00:32:34,787
He said, "You could go
to bed with Bill."
691
00:32:35,996 --> 00:32:38,499
And I said, "I don't think
it would be that impossible.
692
00:32:39,875 --> 00:32:42,211
He's not that unattractive."
Which he isn't.
693
00:32:44,004 --> 00:32:46,382
There's something--
he was very friendly.
694
00:32:47,091 --> 00:32:49,635
- He was nice-looking.
- Hm. I like his face.
695
00:32:49,718 --> 00:32:50,719
It's not repellent.
696
00:32:50,803 --> 00:32:53,681
Mm. He's the opposite of Allen.
697
00:32:54,473 --> 00:32:56,767
I mean, like,
he'll age very well.
698
00:32:56,850 --> 00:32:59,687
Ginsberg will just be
a fat old Jewish man.
699
00:32:59,770 --> 00:33:01,522
He's always been very ugly.
700
00:33:07,903 --> 00:33:09,947
I forgot what else
was said there.
701
00:33:12,658 --> 00:33:14,702
Oh, he said he might
come by tomorrow.
702
00:33:16,495 --> 00:33:18,872
'Cause he'd already
got more time.
703
00:33:18,956 --> 00:33:20,207
What, at your place?
704
00:33:20,290 --> 00:33:22,459
No, Burroughs.
At 3:00.
705
00:33:22,543 --> 00:33:23,627
Did you tell him not to?
706
00:33:23,711 --> 00:33:24,753
No.
707
00:33:26,088 --> 00:33:28,632
No, I thought about that,
but then I thought
708
00:33:28,716 --> 00:33:30,384
maybe it might be interesting.
709
00:33:32,636 --> 00:33:34,847
Burroughs and Ginsberg
together on a picture.
710
00:33:37,558 --> 00:33:39,143
I'd still get Burroughs.
711
00:33:41,228 --> 00:33:42,479
And then I left.
712
00:33:43,188 --> 00:33:44,648
Was it a friendly farewell?
713
00:33:44,732 --> 00:33:45,691
Yeah.
714
00:33:48,318 --> 00:33:50,362
He said he'd like
to see the pictures,
715
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,407
to tell him what picture
was used in The Times,
716
00:33:53,490 --> 00:33:55,784
and in the end,
he really didn't care
717
00:33:55,868 --> 00:33:58,203
if I used a portrait
of him or not.
718
00:33:58,287 --> 00:33:59,496
You won him over.
719
00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:03,792
He said he was just being hard,
720
00:34:05,502 --> 00:34:07,546
and he was trying
to protect himself.
721
00:34:11,383 --> 00:34:12,801
And I walked home.
722
00:34:13,969 --> 00:34:15,596
What time is it about?
723
00:34:17,473 --> 00:34:18,724
I don't know.
724
00:34:18,807 --> 00:34:20,100
It's still light.
725
00:34:21,226 --> 00:34:22,478
Maybe 4:00.
726
00:34:26,231 --> 00:34:27,232
Then what?
727
00:34:29,026 --> 00:34:31,236
Then I take out
this Oscar Mayer Braunschweiger.
728
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,529
Oh, I used to love that.
729
00:34:32,613 --> 00:34:33,822
Is it still cheap?
730
00:34:33,906 --> 00:34:35,157
No.
731
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:37,868
It's 89 cents for a little--
It's expensive.
732
00:34:38,494 --> 00:34:40,871
But I was hungry,
and I splurged.
733
00:34:41,538 --> 00:34:43,707
I make a sandwich
on that Pepperidge Farm,
734
00:34:43,791 --> 00:34:45,417
that delicious bread.
735
00:34:45,501 --> 00:34:46,794
It's wheat bread, but it's--
736
00:34:46,877 --> 00:34:48,086
The sprouted wheat?
737
00:34:48,170 --> 00:34:49,379
It's sprouted wheat!
738
00:34:49,463 --> 00:34:51,089
And I have some Pep-up,
that's left.
739
00:34:51,173 --> 00:34:52,466
What is that?
740
00:34:52,549 --> 00:34:54,760
That's the Adelle Davis drink
with yeast and stuff.
741
00:34:56,637 --> 00:35:00,682
And as soon as I finished that,
which I ate fairly quickly,
742
00:35:01,433 --> 00:35:03,185
I go right into the darkroom,
and I set up
743
00:35:03,268 --> 00:35:04,812
for developing film.
744
00:35:05,646 --> 00:35:07,731
And the phone rings,
and it's Steve Pisney,
745
00:35:08,565 --> 00:35:10,609
who is some number
who likes to talk tough.
746
00:35:10,692 --> 00:35:12,194
He used to be in the Marines.
747
00:35:12,903 --> 00:35:14,905
He's actually very sweet.
748
00:35:14,988 --> 00:35:18,617
But he has this whole
comic book edge to him.
749
00:35:18,700 --> 00:35:23,121
He says, "Hey, man,
I'm really hot tonight.
750
00:35:23,205 --> 00:35:24,540
I was just jacking off."
751
00:35:24,623 --> 00:35:26,416
And I say,
"Well, I've got people here."
752
00:35:27,209 --> 00:35:28,919
You lie all day long.
753
00:35:29,002 --> 00:35:30,796
Yeah, I do.
It's amazing.
754
00:35:30,879 --> 00:35:32,339
I don't think you realize
half the time.
755
00:35:32,422 --> 00:35:33,632
You do.
I know when I lie.
756
00:35:33,715 --> 00:35:34,591
I don't know why I do them,
but each lie is--
757
00:35:34,675 --> 00:35:36,426
I wish I could do it more.
758
00:35:36,510 --> 00:35:38,095
I mean, you didn't want
to talk to him, right?
759
00:35:38,178 --> 00:35:39,221
You wanted to work.
760
00:35:39,304 --> 00:35:41,557
He wanted me to come over
to his house.
761
00:35:43,058 --> 00:35:45,686
I said, "Okay, well,
catch you later."
762
00:35:45,769 --> 00:35:47,604
- Yeah. He's not a New Yorker.
- No.
763
00:35:54,611 --> 00:35:56,613
So then I go
into the dark room,
764
00:35:57,781 --> 00:36:01,535
and I develop
two rolls of film first,
765
00:36:01,618 --> 00:36:03,036
because there
are eight altogether.
766
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,997
And this is the Ginsbergs.
767
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,291
And that's in the hypo.
768
00:36:07,374 --> 00:36:08,458
And Linda calls.
769
00:36:09,334 --> 00:36:11,461
And she tells me
to write this all out.
770
00:36:11,545 --> 00:36:13,213
But you hadn't written anything
before this?
771
00:36:13,297 --> 00:36:15,048
- No.
-Oh my God.
772
00:36:15,132 --> 00:36:17,342
I said, "I don't know
that I can remember it all."
773
00:36:17,426 --> 00:36:18,510
Turns out...
774
00:36:19,553 --> 00:36:22,931
'Cause I really began to think,
"Well, I didn't do anything."
775
00:36:23,807 --> 00:36:26,435
I photographed Ginsberg,
that woman from Elle.
776
00:36:26,518 --> 00:36:28,395
She came in the morning.
That's it.
777
00:36:28,478 --> 00:36:29,688
Isn't it interesting?
778
00:36:29,771 --> 00:36:30,856
It really is.
779
00:36:30,939 --> 00:36:33,191
Because as soon as I started,
like all this--
780
00:36:33,275 --> 00:36:34,985
Yes.
It's like a whole novel already.
781
00:36:35,068 --> 00:36:36,570
Yeah. All this stuff came.
782
00:36:39,281 --> 00:36:41,033
So I write it all down.
783
00:36:41,116 --> 00:36:41,909
It takes me a bit of time.
784
00:36:41,992 --> 00:36:42,910
I thought it would
take a minute.
785
00:36:42,993 --> 00:36:44,953
It takes like 12 minutes.
786
00:36:45,037 --> 00:36:48,498
Then I go into the dark room,
and I develop
787
00:36:48,582 --> 00:36:52,669
the other eight rolls of film
when Glenn O'Brien calls.
788
00:36:53,837 --> 00:36:56,256
And he says,
"Will you be home at 8:30?"
789
00:36:56,340 --> 00:36:58,717
And I say, "Oh, I don't know.
790
00:37:00,010 --> 00:37:02,679
I'm pretty sure I will be
because I'm at work.
791
00:37:02,763 --> 00:37:04,181
I should work.
792
00:37:04,264 --> 00:37:05,849
but like,
I really don't want to,
793
00:37:06,934 --> 00:37:07,893
I might go out or something.
794
00:37:07,976 --> 00:37:09,061
I don't want
to commit myself right now."
795
00:37:09,144 --> 00:37:11,730
You said this to him
or you just thought about it?
796
00:37:11,813 --> 00:37:12,940
I thought about it.
797
00:37:13,899 --> 00:37:16,318
I don't want to commit
myself right now.
798
00:37:16,401 --> 00:37:18,153
And I know
I probably will work.
799
00:37:18,236 --> 00:37:20,030
And if I say, "Yes, 8:30..."
800
00:37:20,113 --> 00:37:21,990
Well, he was gonna
call you back at 8:30?
801
00:37:22,074 --> 00:37:25,118
No, he was going to be
down in the neighborhood.
802
00:37:25,202 --> 00:37:27,245
He wants to know
if I would give him
803
00:37:27,329 --> 00:37:29,831
the negatives of, um...
804
00:37:30,874 --> 00:37:31,833
He's starting this
805
00:37:31,917 --> 00:37:34,252
rock and roll group
called "the Conelrad".
806
00:37:35,337 --> 00:37:38,048
He can't sing
or play an instrument.
807
00:37:38,131 --> 00:37:39,216
None of them can.
808
00:37:39,299 --> 00:37:40,926
Nikki, the guy that did
those anal paintings.
809
00:37:41,009 --> 00:37:42,427
Oh, I was just reading
about him today.
810
00:37:42,511 --> 00:37:43,887
Yeah, he did something
Saturday night.
811
00:37:43,971 --> 00:37:45,222
He's the drummer
in this group.
812
00:37:45,305 --> 00:37:45,931
With his ass?
813
00:37:47,057 --> 00:37:48,684
Yeah, I photographed them.
814
00:37:48,767 --> 00:37:51,478
Because it's almost like
they're doing this hype.
815
00:37:51,561 --> 00:37:52,729
I don't know
if it's half serious.
816
00:37:52,813 --> 00:37:54,189
Well, does any music come out?
817
00:37:54,272 --> 00:37:55,399
No.
818
00:37:55,482 --> 00:37:56,733
They haven't made any music.
819
00:37:58,193 --> 00:38:00,445
Glenn can't sing or play.
820
00:38:00,529 --> 00:38:01,655
And they get publicity.
821
00:38:01,738 --> 00:38:04,825
Like they got Lisa Robinson
from Rock Scenes
822
00:38:04,908 --> 00:38:06,743
to do a picture of them.
823
00:38:06,827 --> 00:38:09,037
And Fran Lebowitz
to do an interview.
824
00:38:09,788 --> 00:38:11,331
And it's totally made up.
825
00:38:12,124 --> 00:38:14,918
They're Korean war brats
and they got together in Korea.
826
00:38:15,002 --> 00:38:16,003
What, they really are?
827
00:38:16,086 --> 00:38:17,379
Mm-mm.
828
00:38:17,462 --> 00:38:18,338
No, they made up the story.
829
00:38:18,422 --> 00:38:20,340
They talk about it
as if it were real.
830
00:38:20,424 --> 00:38:22,467
So I photographed them
for Lisa.
831
00:38:23,552 --> 00:38:27,723
And I said, "Yeah, I have
no need for the negatives."
832
00:38:29,057 --> 00:38:30,934
And I hang up the negatives
and Vince calls.
833
00:38:31,018 --> 00:38:32,561
No.
834
00:38:32,644 --> 00:38:35,230
I hang up the negatives
and I take a nap.
835
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:36,565
Of course.
836
00:38:36,648 --> 00:38:37,774
'Cause I needed a nap.
Does it sound like too many?
837
00:38:37,858 --> 00:38:38,900
What, two naps a day?
838
00:38:38,984 --> 00:38:40,944
-Yeah.
- Yeah.
839
00:38:41,028 --> 00:38:42,279
Well, the first one
wasn't a nap.
840
00:38:42,362 --> 00:38:43,947
It was a continuation
of my sleep.
841
00:38:44,031 --> 00:38:45,407
And I needed an hour more.
842
00:38:47,868 --> 00:38:49,911
And uh, then Vince called.
843
00:38:49,995 --> 00:38:53,081
And uh, he wanted to know
if he could come over
844
00:38:53,165 --> 00:38:56,960
to take a shower at my place,
'cause he had no hot water.
845
00:38:57,044 --> 00:38:59,796
And he was really hoping
that there was someone
846
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:02,758
that he knew that he could call
to take a shower with.
847
00:39:02,841 --> 00:39:04,468
But he wished that he had
some friend,
848
00:39:04,551 --> 00:39:05,802
you know, some trick.
849
00:39:05,886 --> 00:39:06,845
You should have given him
the other guy's number,
850
00:39:06,928 --> 00:39:08,305
the one that was hot.
851
00:39:08,388 --> 00:39:09,389
I should have done.
852
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,225
But they wouldn't get along.
853
00:39:12,309 --> 00:39:13,602
Vince wouldn't let him
do his number.
854
00:39:14,936 --> 00:39:15,937
Sometimes when I've made
it with him, he calls me
855
00:39:16,021 --> 00:39:16,688
"buddy".
856
00:39:17,439 --> 00:39:18,148
Great.
857
00:39:18,231 --> 00:39:19,941
♪ Hold me tight, my baby ♪
858
00:39:20,025 --> 00:39:21,860
♪ Hold me tight tonight ♪
859
00:39:21,943 --> 00:39:23,862
♪ Hold me tight, my baby ♪
860
00:39:23,945 --> 00:39:25,572
♪ Everything's all right ♪
861
00:39:25,655 --> 00:39:27,699
♪ Hold me tight ♪
862
00:39:27,783 --> 00:39:29,034
♪ Hold me tight ♪
863
00:39:30,285 --> 00:39:32,454
♪ I don't care about tomorrow ♪
864
00:39:32,537 --> 00:39:34,247
♪ But hold me tight tonight ♪
865
00:39:35,665 --> 00:39:38,919
Danced all night
866
00:39:41,713 --> 00:39:43,632
♪ Come on and let's have fun ♪
867
00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:46,593
♪ Hold me tight, hold me tight ♪
868
00:39:48,136 --> 00:39:50,388
♪ I don't care about tomorrow ♪
869
00:39:50,472 --> 00:39:52,140
♪ Hold me tight tonight ♪
870
00:40:10,408 --> 00:40:12,536
♪ Hold me tight, my baby ♪
871
00:40:12,619 --> 00:40:14,538
♪ Hold me tight tonight ♪
872
00:40:14,621 --> 00:40:16,665
♪ Hold me tight, my baby ♪
873
00:40:16,748 --> 00:40:18,291
♪ Everything's all right ♪
874
00:40:18,375 --> 00:40:21,378
♪ Hold me tight, hold me tight ♪
875
00:40:23,046 --> 00:40:25,340
♪ I don't care about tomorrow ♪
876
00:40:25,423 --> 00:40:26,967
♪ Hold me tight tonight ♪
877
00:40:28,260 --> 00:40:30,595
♪ I don't care about tomorrow ♪
878
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:32,305
♪ Hold me tight tonight ♪
879
00:40:40,355 --> 00:40:42,149
Oh, one of the details
of the Glenn O'Brien
880
00:40:42,232 --> 00:40:47,028
conversation that I forgot
was he wrote an article
881
00:40:47,112 --> 00:40:50,198
for Italian Vogue
about Bob Wilson
882
00:40:51,158 --> 00:40:53,326
and they used one
of my pictures.
883
00:40:53,410 --> 00:40:54,995
So I said, "Hey Glenn,
did you ever get paid for that?"
884
00:40:55,078 --> 00:40:56,246
And he said, "No."
885
00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:58,039
I said, "I want to get
some money out of them.
886
00:40:58,123 --> 00:40:59,875
Do you have an issue around,
because I want to send them
887
00:40:59,958 --> 00:41:04,504
the bill", 'cause this is like,
June-July '74.
888
00:41:04,588 --> 00:41:06,673
Yeah. A picture of what?
889
00:41:06,756 --> 00:41:08,133
Bob Wilson.
890
00:41:08,216 --> 00:41:09,426
Did you get a credit?
891
00:41:09,509 --> 00:41:10,468
Yeah.
892
00:41:13,305 --> 00:41:15,432
So Vince says he'll be over
in a few minutes
893
00:41:15,515 --> 00:41:17,267
when he gets
his equipment together.
894
00:41:18,185 --> 00:41:19,811
What, for a shower?
895
00:41:19,895 --> 00:41:20,645
Yeah.
896
00:41:20,729 --> 00:41:22,314
Did he bring his own towel?
897
00:41:22,397 --> 00:41:23,106
No.
898
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:24,191
Soap?
899
00:41:24,274 --> 00:41:27,611
Well, he brought his shampoo,
his hair dryer.
900
00:41:28,528 --> 00:41:30,322
Last time he came,
he brought a washcloth.
901
00:41:32,741 --> 00:41:36,119
So I go to the store
and I buy tuna fish noodles,
902
00:41:36,203 --> 00:41:38,330
Progresso, and yogurt, plain.
903
00:41:38,413 --> 00:41:39,623
And I come back up,
904
00:41:39,706 --> 00:41:41,499
I do 27 push-ups,
and then I turn
905
00:41:41,583 --> 00:41:42,709
the television on.
906
00:41:42,792 --> 00:41:44,961
The evening's
entertainment commences.
907
00:41:45,045 --> 00:41:48,381
Then I decide to cook.
But then I think, "Oh, Vince."
908
00:41:49,382 --> 00:41:51,593
Because it had been my plan
before he called.
909
00:41:52,969 --> 00:41:54,638
So I think maybe I'll ask him
if he wants to eat.
910
00:41:54,721 --> 00:41:57,515
So he arrives and I ask.
I say, "I'm not gonna put
911
00:41:57,599 --> 00:41:58,975
any vegetables in or anything.
912
00:41:59,059 --> 00:42:00,602
I just don't feel like even
frying an onion,
913
00:42:00,685 --> 00:42:02,312
but I'll just whip that up."
914
00:42:02,395 --> 00:42:03,313
And he said, "Oh, I thought
915
00:42:03,396 --> 00:42:05,065
that we could send out
for Chinese food.
916
00:42:06,066 --> 00:42:07,359
I'll treat."
917
00:42:07,442 --> 00:42:08,944
So I said, "Terrific."
918
00:42:09,027 --> 00:42:11,279
Yeah, save the tuna
for another day.
919
00:42:11,363 --> 00:42:14,074
So he's in the shower,
and he says,
920
00:42:14,157 --> 00:42:15,492
"I'll go down soon."
921
00:42:15,575 --> 00:42:17,244
And I think it's silly
to wait here
922
00:42:17,327 --> 00:42:19,746
while he's washing
and drying himself
923
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:20,830
to go get the food.
924
00:42:50,610 --> 00:42:52,988
So I go down while he's still
in the shower.
925
00:42:53,071 --> 00:42:54,406
And then what do I do?
926
00:42:55,824 --> 00:42:57,325
Then I went
to the Chinese restaurant
927
00:42:57,409 --> 00:42:59,536
and ordered the stuff.
928
00:42:59,619 --> 00:43:02,122
I go to the Chinese
and there's a guy there.
929
00:43:02,205 --> 00:43:02,914
Hmm.
930
00:43:02,998 --> 00:43:04,874
Who looks sort of fat.
931
00:43:05,709 --> 00:43:07,585
But he has a very nice face.
932
00:43:08,545 --> 00:43:10,922
There's something sort
of lonely and strange.
933
00:43:13,466 --> 00:43:16,136
He seems very much
like an unmarried man.
934
00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:18,805
Uh, straight, 35.
935
00:43:19,597 --> 00:43:21,725
And he takes one of
the mountain,
936
00:43:21,808 --> 00:43:23,226
Jade Mountain card,
the calling cards.
937
00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:24,561
Mmhmm.
938
00:43:24,644 --> 00:43:28,398
And he takes out a felt-tip pen
and he starts to draw on it.
939
00:43:28,481 --> 00:43:30,025
He makes these sort of squares.
940
00:43:30,108 --> 00:43:31,693
Is he waiting for an order?
941
00:43:31,776 --> 00:43:33,194
Yeah.
942
00:43:33,236 --> 00:43:35,071
Yeah, which was
chicken chow mein.
943
00:43:35,113 --> 00:43:36,448
Oh, good luck.
944
00:43:36,489 --> 00:43:39,075
And the waiter comes out
and says, "Your order's ready."
945
00:43:39,117 --> 00:43:42,495
And he sort of nods
and then continues drawing.
946
00:43:42,537 --> 00:43:44,789
And enough time has passed
and he's still drawing
947
00:43:44,873 --> 00:43:45,540
these boxes.
948
00:43:45,623 --> 00:43:47,625
Was this
on the little tiny card?
949
00:43:47,667 --> 00:43:49,002
Yeah, and he's really into it.
950
00:43:50,378 --> 00:43:53,048
And then the waiter stands there
sort of perplexed.
951
00:43:53,882 --> 00:43:56,426
And then he walks back
over to him, and he says,
952
00:43:56,509 --> 00:43:58,636
"Your order's ready."
And he says, "Oh."
953
00:44:00,305 --> 00:44:04,225
And it came to $3.45.
954
00:44:04,309 --> 00:44:06,061
For chicken chow mein?
955
00:44:06,144 --> 00:44:08,313
For his stuff.
And then he leaves.
956
00:44:08,396 --> 00:44:10,065
Mine is-- takes
a few more minutes,
957
00:44:10,148 --> 00:44:11,733
and it's $7.30.
958
00:44:11,816 --> 00:44:14,611
It's 7.30, but you only had 7.
959
00:44:14,694 --> 00:44:15,779
7.4-- 7.43
960
00:44:15,862 --> 00:44:16,946
Yeah, but you only had 7.
961
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:18,782
I had 7,
and I paid the difference.
962
00:44:18,865 --> 00:44:19,824
Big spender.
963
00:44:19,908 --> 00:44:21,826
And also,
I had to get Vince a Coke.
964
00:44:21,910 --> 00:44:24,162
So I go to the store,
a Greek place.
965
00:44:24,245 --> 00:44:25,580
- Hm.
-I get the Coke.
966
00:44:25,663 --> 00:44:27,916
It's 32 ounces,
which is 65 cents.
967
00:44:27,999 --> 00:44:29,584
And I go back up.
968
00:44:29,667 --> 00:44:31,252
And he's dressed
and he's drying his hair.
969
00:44:31,336 --> 00:44:34,589
Oh, the guy, the Chinese,
970
00:44:34,672 --> 00:44:36,341
the guy from the
Chinese restaurant, the artist.
971
00:44:36,424 --> 00:44:37,759
Mmhmm.
972
00:44:37,842 --> 00:44:39,803
He bought something
in that store.
973
00:44:39,886 --> 00:44:41,262
I don't know what he bought,
but he bought something.
974
00:44:41,346 --> 00:44:43,139
- In the Greek store?
-In the Greek store.
975
00:44:43,223 --> 00:44:45,100
And he asked for the slip,
976
00:44:45,183 --> 00:44:47,310
and he didn't pay for it
in the Greek store.
977
00:44:47,394 --> 00:44:50,271
He just took the sales receipt,
and he wrote Schmidt
978
00:44:50,355 --> 00:44:51,523
on the back of it.
979
00:44:52,482 --> 00:44:56,403
And um, and he's,
without saying a word, he left.
980
00:44:56,486 --> 00:44:57,904
Well, you should
try that sometime.
981
00:44:57,987 --> 00:44:58,947
That's a good trick.
982
00:44:59,030 --> 00:45:00,115
I bet it would work up
in this neighborhood
983
00:45:00,198 --> 00:45:01,241
up in Yorkville.
984
00:45:02,784 --> 00:45:06,329
So I come back up,
and I open the containers.
985
00:45:06,413 --> 00:45:08,957
And I get out the plates,
and we sit down, and we eat.
986
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,126
I have the sweet and sour,
and Vince has--
987
00:45:11,209 --> 00:45:13,002
You don't share?
988
00:45:13,086 --> 00:45:14,796
Um, a little bit, but mostly
I don't really like
989
00:45:14,879 --> 00:45:16,005
moo goo gai pan.
990
00:45:16,089 --> 00:45:18,091
Vince didn't eat much of it.
I ate all of mine.
991
00:45:18,174 --> 00:45:20,385
And there wasn't enough rice.
992
00:45:20,468 --> 00:45:22,512
And then I said, "Why don't you
take the Coke home?
993
00:45:22,595 --> 00:45:23,888
Because I still have
the last one here,
994
00:45:23,972 --> 00:45:25,598
it's flat,
since you were here."
995
00:45:25,682 --> 00:45:26,683
He lives on Coke.
996
00:45:26,766 --> 00:45:28,726
Yeah, that's why his skin
is so great.
997
00:45:30,603 --> 00:45:32,021
He does not eat good, Vincent.
998
00:45:32,939 --> 00:45:34,149
He really loves junk food.
999
00:45:34,899 --> 00:45:36,568
We were out one night
with Fran Lebowitz
1000
00:45:36,651 --> 00:45:39,946
and Craig Karpel,
going to an Italian restaurant.
1001
00:45:40,029 --> 00:45:41,990
And Vincent insisted on getting
out of the car,
1002
00:45:42,073 --> 00:45:44,075
so that he could go
to McDonald's.
1003
00:45:44,159 --> 00:45:45,702
And he said that
he would meet us there
1004
00:45:45,785 --> 00:45:46,870
at the restaurant
for coffee.
1005
00:45:46,953 --> 00:45:48,538
Well, that's crazy.
1006
00:45:49,622 --> 00:45:51,749
Maybe it's because
he grew up on Italian food.
1007
00:45:51,833 --> 00:45:53,501
No, but I mean,
when you're with people.
1008
00:45:54,502 --> 00:45:55,545
I mean, he had
to have McDonald's.
1009
00:45:55,628 --> 00:45:57,338
Yeah, get a fix.
1010
00:46:04,137 --> 00:46:06,014
I can't remember
what we talked about.
1011
00:46:07,515 --> 00:46:09,476
I told him
about Allen Ginsberg.
1012
00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:12,270
Oh, I read him the beginning
of this list.
1013
00:46:13,188 --> 00:46:14,647
I said, "It's amazing."
1014
00:46:14,731 --> 00:46:15,565
I had the feeling
1015
00:46:15,648 --> 00:46:18,276
that I'd done nothing
but gotten up,
1016
00:46:19,486 --> 00:46:21,446
photographed Allen Ginsberg,
developed the film,
1017
00:46:21,529 --> 00:46:22,697
and that was it.
1018
00:46:23,656 --> 00:46:25,241
You know, I often have a feeling
that in my day,
1019
00:46:25,325 --> 00:46:28,661
nothing much happens,
that I've wasted it.
1020
00:46:28,745 --> 00:46:30,038
Well, now you know.
1021
00:46:30,121 --> 00:46:31,706
I've wasted another day.
1022
00:46:32,582 --> 00:46:35,126
All I did is I spent
two hours with Ginsberg.
1023
00:46:35,210 --> 00:46:36,252
This takes a day.
1024
00:46:37,462 --> 00:46:40,089
That's why
I'm doing this, actually.
1025
00:46:40,173 --> 00:46:43,009
To find out how people
fill up their days,
1026
00:46:43,092 --> 00:46:45,970
because I myself feel like
I don't do much
1027
00:46:46,054 --> 00:46:47,472
of anything all day.
1028
00:46:48,765 --> 00:46:50,391
You should do it.
1029
00:46:50,475 --> 00:46:51,476
I'm going to.
1030
00:46:52,227 --> 00:46:53,686
Anyway, there's a knock
at the door,
1031
00:46:53,770 --> 00:46:56,314
and it's Glenn O'Brien wearing
one of those coats like Joseph
1032
00:46:56,397 --> 00:46:58,858
used to wear with the fur
collar, beige, gray.
1033
00:46:58,942 --> 00:46:59,984
- What, a storm coat?
- With the belt, yeah.
1034
00:47:00,068 --> 00:47:01,694
Mmhmm. Like suburban.
1035
00:47:01,778 --> 00:47:04,364
And he comes in
and he doesn't take it off,
1036
00:47:04,447 --> 00:47:06,950
and he says,
"I'm going to jam with Bruce."
1037
00:47:07,033 --> 00:47:09,536
And I say, "Oh, come on.
How do you jam?
1038
00:47:09,619 --> 00:47:11,829
What do you do?
You don't play an instrument."
1039
00:47:11,913 --> 00:47:13,540
And he says,
"We listen to records,
1040
00:47:13,623 --> 00:47:15,833
and we say we want
to do it like that."
1041
00:47:15,917 --> 00:47:18,670
And I say, "You should get
Topaz Caucasian for your band."
1042
00:47:18,753 --> 00:47:20,129
Well, she doesn't play
anything either.
1043
00:47:20,213 --> 00:47:22,507
She-- Oh, she plays the trumpet,
but she doesn't exist.
1044
00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:23,633
She's fictitious.
1045
00:47:24,592 --> 00:47:28,012
She's a woman that was made up
by Pat Costello,
1046
00:47:28,888 --> 00:47:32,976
part of Wartoke Music
Publicity Group.
1047
00:47:33,059 --> 00:47:35,144
They do the publicity
for Stevie Wonder.
1048
00:47:35,228 --> 00:47:38,147
They took me on tour
with Rod Stewart,
1049
00:47:39,482 --> 00:47:42,819
and they drop out the name
occasionally, Topaz Caucasian.
1050
00:47:44,070 --> 00:47:46,906
She was at Miami Pop Festival
or whatever it was,
1051
00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:49,617
Newport Festival,
or she made a brief appearance
1052
00:47:49,701 --> 00:47:52,203
on stage with Miles Davis,
and they put this in the paper.
1053
00:47:54,455 --> 00:47:56,583
Topaz Caucasian is supposed
to be a 6-foot,
1054
00:47:56,666 --> 00:48:00,169
red-haired mulatto,
and she actually got
1055
00:48:00,253 --> 00:48:01,421
into all the papers.
1056
00:48:01,504 --> 00:48:02,547
I would be with people
1057
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:03,590
who would swear that they
had seen Topaz Caucasian.
1058
00:48:03,673 --> 00:48:04,549
Wait.
1059
00:48:04,632 --> 00:48:06,634
How did you know
that she was made up?
1060
00:48:08,886 --> 00:48:10,346
Because I was there
when she was made up.
1061
00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:12,098
Oh.
1062
00:48:12,181 --> 00:48:14,267
Did Glenn O'Brien
know she was made up?
1063
00:48:15,351 --> 00:48:17,687
No, I told him the story
of Topaz, that she was made up,
1064
00:48:17,770 --> 00:48:20,231
and I said that she could be
just perfect to say
1065
00:48:20,315 --> 00:48:22,191
that you're considering
Topaz Caucasian,
1066
00:48:22,275 --> 00:48:23,443
and he said, "Yeah."
1067
00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:25,445
He knew about Topaz.
1068
00:48:25,528 --> 00:48:27,196
He said that,
"If someone dared come out
1069
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,159
and say, 'I am Topaz Caucasian',
that they could be heard,"
1070
00:48:31,909 --> 00:48:35,121
that they could make a record,
at least cut a demo,
1071
00:48:35,204 --> 00:48:37,624
because people were saying,
"Who is she? Who's she with?"
1072
00:48:37,707 --> 00:48:40,001
There's something
like they're doing it real.
1073
00:48:40,084 --> 00:48:42,128
I think that they might
start collecting musicians.
1074
00:48:42,211 --> 00:48:43,129
- They just might.
- Yeah.
1075
00:48:43,212 --> 00:48:45,673
I have a feeling
that Suzi Quatro did that.
1076
00:48:49,010 --> 00:48:50,803
Well, now what happens?
1077
00:48:50,887 --> 00:48:54,140
Glenn's there,
stays for about 10 minutes,
1078
00:48:54,223 --> 00:48:56,351
and then he leaves,
so it's just me and Vince.
1079
00:48:57,060 --> 00:48:59,312
And I say I have to go back
to work,
1080
00:49:00,313 --> 00:49:02,023
and Glenn says
he's going to go home.
1081
00:49:04,776 --> 00:49:07,695
I mentioned your book
during this thing,
1082
00:49:08,863 --> 00:49:10,865
and they're like,
"Patrick says it would be great
1083
00:49:10,948 --> 00:49:11,866
to have a sofa."
1084
00:49:12,825 --> 00:49:15,328
And I say,
"It would really change my life.
1085
00:49:16,371 --> 00:49:17,914
And we discussed this
during the dinner,
1086
00:49:17,997 --> 00:49:22,293
the make-out possibilities
and how difficult--
1087
00:49:22,377 --> 00:49:23,127
You know, in his apartment,
1088
00:49:23,211 --> 00:49:26,756
he has a bed
and straight chairs,
1089
00:49:26,839 --> 00:49:29,384
so they either have to go
to the bedroom
1090
00:49:29,467 --> 00:49:32,011
and watch the television,
do it that way
1091
00:49:32,095 --> 00:49:34,138
or if they get on the bed,
he keeps the bed
1092
00:49:34,222 --> 00:49:35,098
in the living room,
1093
00:49:36,015 --> 00:49:38,309
and he keeps all these
magazines and letters.
1094
00:49:38,393 --> 00:49:39,394
He has to move all these.
1095
00:49:39,477 --> 00:49:41,729
Yeah. Well, a couch,
a couch would be in between.
1096
00:49:41,813 --> 00:49:43,022
You can do it on the couch.
1097
00:49:43,106 --> 00:49:44,357
You can sleep on the couch.
1098
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,234
You can stretch out
and read on the couch.
1099
00:49:46,317 --> 00:49:48,027
It's really a rather
wonderful thing.
1100
00:49:48,111 --> 00:49:49,987
And one day, it'll be yours.
1101
00:49:52,740 --> 00:49:57,662
Okay, so Vincent leaves,
and I go back to the dark room.
1102
00:49:58,871 --> 00:50:00,373
This is about 10:00?
1103
00:50:02,083 --> 00:50:04,961
Probably somewhere in there,
not watching the clock,
1104
00:50:06,212 --> 00:50:11,467
and I think about making
the restaurant enlargements.
1105
00:50:13,344 --> 00:50:16,180
The restaurant job I did,
the interior of the restaurant.
1106
00:50:17,140 --> 00:50:18,725
I just hate printing it.
1107
00:50:19,726 --> 00:50:21,811
You know there's like,
14 different prints
1108
00:50:23,563 --> 00:50:25,148
and the contacts
1109
00:50:25,231 --> 00:50:28,067
are in the dryer already
of Ginsberg.
1110
00:50:28,151 --> 00:50:29,360
What's your reaction?
1111
00:50:32,822 --> 00:50:34,824
There's very little there.
1112
00:50:37,243 --> 00:50:38,619
There's no contact.
1113
00:50:39,662 --> 00:50:40,788
Hm.
1114
00:50:42,498 --> 00:50:44,667
So then I make
the restaurant pictures,
1115
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,088
and when I'm looking at them,
I was really exhausted.
1116
00:50:50,715 --> 00:50:52,550
I just wanted to go
to bed again.
1117
00:50:54,635 --> 00:50:56,763
But when I start working,
I kind of wake up.
1118
00:50:56,846 --> 00:50:58,890
Did you have lunch?
1119
00:50:58,973 --> 00:51:00,725
I had the liverwurst sandwich.
1120
00:51:00,808 --> 00:51:02,894
Hm. I think you're malnourished.
1121
00:51:02,977 --> 00:51:04,479
Do you eat enough vegetables?
1122
00:51:05,772 --> 00:51:07,857
Sometimes, but like yesterday,
that's all I had.
1123
00:51:07,940 --> 00:51:10,151
Well, that is not enough.
Not for a big man.
1124
00:51:10,234 --> 00:51:10,902
Really.
1125
00:51:10,985 --> 00:51:12,236
I guess not.
1126
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:13,529
That is why you're tired.
1127
00:51:13,613 --> 00:51:15,323
I'm not that tired.
1128
00:51:15,406 --> 00:51:16,240
It's just certain things
1129
00:51:16,324 --> 00:51:18,075
like Allen Ginsberg
got me tired.
1130
00:51:23,873 --> 00:51:29,128
So I uh, make the blow-up
of the restaurant,
1131
00:51:29,212 --> 00:51:31,380
and after I've made
half a dozen,
1132
00:51:32,256 --> 00:51:34,342
I realize this is quite
an incredibly good job.
1133
00:51:34,425 --> 00:51:37,011
It looks very professional.
1134
00:51:37,094 --> 00:51:41,849
And I got all these pictures
of one restaurant,
1135
00:51:41,933 --> 00:51:44,393
portrait of the owner for $450.
1136
00:51:44,477 --> 00:51:46,521
That's really a steal,
a good price.
1137
00:51:47,897 --> 00:51:49,816
I thought, "Oh, it's really too
much", because I was there
1138
00:51:49,899 --> 00:51:51,651
a couple of hours,
and I did these pictures.
1139
00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:54,487
And it looks
just like the place.
1140
00:51:55,696 --> 00:51:58,616
And Fran calls, and uh, I say,
"I'm at work."
1141
00:51:58,699 --> 00:52:00,284
And she says,
"Okay, go back to work.
1142
00:52:00,368 --> 00:52:01,953
I'll talk to you tomorrow.
1143
00:52:02,036 --> 00:52:03,496
And she says goodbye.
1144
00:52:04,747 --> 00:52:05,623
And I finish up
1145
00:52:05,706 --> 00:52:07,583
the restaurant things,
and I wash them,
1146
00:52:07,667 --> 00:52:09,502
and I realize, I better not soak
them overnight,
1147
00:52:09,585 --> 00:52:13,714
because that polycontrast paper
starts to peel at the edges,
1148
00:52:13,798 --> 00:52:16,300
and I want it to look very
presentable and neat.
1149
00:52:17,552 --> 00:52:20,179
To get my money
so I wash them,
1150
00:52:21,889 --> 00:52:22,932
and the heat is off.
1151
00:52:23,015 --> 00:52:23,975
The heat had gone off
1152
00:52:24,058 --> 00:52:25,852
about 7:30 when Vince
was taking a shower.
1153
00:52:25,935 --> 00:52:27,562
It's getting very cold.
1154
00:52:27,645 --> 00:52:29,105
Does this happen every night?
1155
00:52:30,857 --> 00:52:32,692
It's very peculiar.
1156
00:52:32,775 --> 00:52:35,027
The night before, it had been on
all night long.
1157
00:52:35,111 --> 00:52:36,529
It was so hot.
1158
00:52:39,115 --> 00:52:41,534
It was on until 7:00
and it was off until 2:00.
1159
00:52:43,077 --> 00:52:44,871
It's on some kind
of automatic thing.
1160
00:52:44,954 --> 00:52:46,038
It's very weird.
1161
00:52:47,456 --> 00:52:49,041
But I knew it was okay
to leave the prints
1162
00:52:49,125 --> 00:52:52,003
to dry out in the air,
because if it was cold,
1163
00:52:52,086 --> 00:52:53,838
I could leave them
out overnight,
1164
00:52:53,921 --> 00:52:56,048
and they would dry slower
and flatter.
1165
00:52:57,508 --> 00:52:59,176
And then I remembered
that I have to go
1166
00:52:59,260 --> 00:53:00,678
to Tina tomorrow,
and I have to bring her
1167
00:53:00,761 --> 00:53:02,889
the Janet Flanner pictures.
1168
00:53:02,930 --> 00:53:04,891
She's buying two
to trade for sessions.
1169
00:53:05,766 --> 00:53:08,519
So I pick out two
that are kind of matched,
1170
00:53:08,644 --> 00:53:12,023
and I realized that
the print that I had made,
1171
00:53:12,106 --> 00:53:16,235
the one that you have,
was really so much better.
1172
00:53:17,194 --> 00:53:19,238
And I hadn't really seen
that before.
1173
00:53:21,532 --> 00:53:23,284
Felicity had said,
"I want that print today.
1174
00:53:23,367 --> 00:53:25,286
These people
are here for this party."
1175
00:53:25,369 --> 00:53:26,621
"I've been doing something
all morning,
1176
00:53:26,704 --> 00:53:29,332
so I got home at 3:00",
and I said, "Well,
1177
00:53:29,415 --> 00:53:30,917
I can make it in an hour,
and if you give me
1178
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,001
50 bucks for it",
1179
00:53:32,084 --> 00:53:34,253
I might as well
make the ones for Tina, too.
1180
00:53:34,337 --> 00:53:36,172
And I thought
that they were good.
1181
00:53:36,255 --> 00:53:39,300
But I realized that
to do good work,
1182
00:53:39,383 --> 00:53:41,677
I have to like have the time
1183
00:53:41,761 --> 00:53:44,597
to really look at it,
really see what I'm doing.
1184
00:53:49,602 --> 00:53:51,646
Sometimes I just stand
and stare at it,
1185
00:53:51,729 --> 00:53:53,856
and it's even
rather pleasurable.
1186
00:53:55,441 --> 00:53:58,861
It really takes time
to get to know it.
1187
00:54:01,739 --> 00:54:03,407
That almost sounds corny.
1188
00:54:32,770 --> 00:54:34,188
Anyway, I hadn't realized
till then
1189
00:54:34,271 --> 00:54:36,482
that they were
really ordinary prints.
1190
00:54:38,901 --> 00:54:40,820
They were good,
but they were ordinary.
1191
00:54:43,114 --> 00:54:46,492
Like, that one had those
really strange whites, black.
1192
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,579
So I signed them.
1193
00:54:52,123 --> 00:54:55,251
My pen wasn't writing good,
so the P in Peter
1194
00:54:55,334 --> 00:54:56,752
was just looking awful.
1195
00:55:00,548 --> 00:55:01,716
So once you put pen
1196
00:55:01,799 --> 00:55:05,678
and India ink on the face
of a print, it just looked puny.
1197
00:55:07,179 --> 00:55:09,640
I thought, "I can't get
too tight with the E-T-E-R,
1198
00:55:09,724 --> 00:55:12,393
but at least I can keep it
in the same scale
1199
00:55:12,476 --> 00:55:14,729
but give it some zip
because it becomes like part
1200
00:55:14,812 --> 00:55:16,022
of the image."
1201
00:55:17,732 --> 00:55:19,150
And the pen
just wouldn't write boldly.
1202
00:55:19,233 --> 00:55:20,735
It wanted to go slow.
1203
00:55:24,321 --> 00:55:27,992
So anyway, I signed them,
and I thought, "Oh, well."
1204
00:55:31,662 --> 00:55:34,665
Oh, before that,
there were two little spots
1205
00:55:34,749 --> 00:55:35,374
that I took out.
1206
00:55:35,458 --> 00:55:36,792
I spotted the print...
1207
00:55:38,419 --> 00:55:40,296
and I went through
my photographs
1208
00:55:41,338 --> 00:55:43,591
to try and find the picture
of Frank Lima's daughter,
1209
00:55:43,674 --> 00:55:46,010
for Tina, who likes it.
1210
00:55:48,095 --> 00:55:50,598
I couldn't remember
whether I had it printed,
1211
00:55:50,681 --> 00:55:51,849
but I knew
1212
00:55:51,932 --> 00:55:54,351
there was one mounted one,
so I found the mounted one.
1213
00:55:56,604 --> 00:56:00,191
And uh, it was peeling
off the cardboard,
1214
00:56:00,274 --> 00:56:02,276
the mounting paste
was coming loose.
1215
00:56:03,402 --> 00:56:06,322
So I thought, "I'll try ironing
it back, see if it sticks."
1216
00:56:08,991 --> 00:56:11,786
So I went and got the iron.
This is now like 2:30.
1217
00:56:12,745 --> 00:56:15,748
And I got a sheet of paper
and I pressed it down.
1218
00:56:15,831 --> 00:56:17,917
And I got it all back
on the mount.
1219
00:56:19,627 --> 00:56:21,587
And I thought, "The edges
are a little bit messy,
1220
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:25,091
but I can say, 'Oh,
but it's the original print."
1221
00:56:25,174 --> 00:56:26,842
I mean, it was still nice,
but the edges
1222
00:56:26,926 --> 00:56:28,219
were a little bit, you know.
1223
00:56:29,804 --> 00:56:30,679
I never thought,
1224
00:56:30,763 --> 00:56:32,848
I usually like things
to be very crisp.
1225
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,852
I somehow thought it was funny
even to have that thought.
1226
00:56:38,354 --> 00:56:39,814
This is the original.
1227
00:56:40,856 --> 00:56:42,399
And you never had
that thought before?
1228
00:56:42,483 --> 00:56:43,943
I don't know whether
it's good or not.
1229
00:56:44,860 --> 00:56:46,445
- It's not bad.
- I know.
1230
00:56:46,529 --> 00:56:49,240
It's like getting caught in--
1231
00:56:49,323 --> 00:56:51,867
Oh, you wouldn't let yourself
get caught into it too much.
1232
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,496
As a look,
I like it to be neat.
1233
00:56:58,082 --> 00:57:00,209
There's something
that bothers me about it.
1234
00:57:16,142 --> 00:57:17,143
Oh.
1235
00:57:27,319 --> 00:57:29,029
So I unplugged the iron.
1236
00:57:31,991 --> 00:57:34,368
And I noticed
a few little spots.
1237
00:57:34,451 --> 00:57:36,328
And there was one spot
1238
00:57:36,412 --> 00:57:38,205
that I really was amazed
that I had gone
1239
00:57:38,289 --> 00:57:39,832
around the print.
1240
00:57:39,915 --> 00:57:41,500
And there was like a hair mark.
1241
00:57:44,795 --> 00:57:46,463
I used to be really good
at spotting.
1242
00:57:46,547 --> 00:57:48,048
Now I find I can't see as good.
1243
00:57:48,132 --> 00:57:48,966
Really?
1244
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,346
Up close,
is that far or near-sighted?
1245
00:57:54,430 --> 00:57:55,681
Far-sighted.
1246
00:57:55,764 --> 00:57:57,474
I find that I have
to look at things like this.
1247
00:57:57,558 --> 00:57:59,143
Yeah, me too.
1248
00:58:00,853 --> 00:58:03,606
And with spotting,
which I used to love to do,
1249
00:58:03,689 --> 00:58:07,193
like see these tiny little spots
and with the brush,
1250
00:58:07,276 --> 00:58:09,320
to be able to put these
pinpoints of dye on it,
1251
00:58:09,403 --> 00:58:10,696
I could do it for hours.
1252
00:58:12,865 --> 00:58:13,616
It was very satisfying.
1253
00:58:13,699 --> 00:58:14,909
I was very good at it.
1254
00:58:16,076 --> 00:58:19,330
Now it's like
a physical unpleasantness.
1255
00:58:21,165 --> 00:58:25,127
Not that it hurts,
but it's not right.
1256
00:58:27,504 --> 00:58:28,881
I can't see it.
1257
00:58:28,964 --> 00:58:29,965
All the pleasure is gone.
1258
00:58:30,049 --> 00:58:31,592
Well, when you get your glasses.
1259
00:58:31,675 --> 00:58:33,761
It's just--
I have to get glasses. Yeah.
1260
00:58:34,803 --> 00:58:36,722
Do you need them for distance?
1261
00:58:36,805 --> 00:58:37,848
No.
1262
00:58:38,724 --> 00:58:40,559
Just up close.
1263
00:58:40,643 --> 00:58:41,894
When I first noticed
1264
00:58:41,977 --> 00:58:46,232
that I was getting far-sighted
was when Maurice Hogenboom,
1265
00:58:46,315 --> 00:58:50,402
who was a Dutch photographer,
living with Caterin Milinaire,
1266
00:58:51,528 --> 00:58:52,988
came over to my house.
1267
00:58:54,114 --> 00:58:55,574
I went to Phoebe's.
1268
00:58:57,743 --> 00:58:59,203
And he showed me
a picture of himself.
1269
00:58:59,286 --> 00:59:00,704
He's quite beautiful.
1270
00:59:01,622 --> 00:59:03,415
I pulled out this picture.
1271
00:59:03,499 --> 00:59:05,084
I said, "Look at this."
1272
00:59:05,167 --> 00:59:08,212
And he put it about a foot away
from my face.
1273
00:59:09,838 --> 00:59:11,382
I mean, not too close.
1274
00:59:13,092 --> 00:59:14,593
And I had to back off.
1275
00:59:14,677 --> 00:59:15,844
It was annoying.
1276
00:59:16,553 --> 00:59:18,264
I had to take it in my hand
and put it out there
1277
00:59:18,347 --> 00:59:19,181
and say, "Oh."
1278
00:59:22,518 --> 00:59:25,145
That was when I realized,
it's strange.
1279
00:59:25,229 --> 00:59:26,563
I used to be able
to look at things that close.
1280
00:59:26,647 --> 00:59:28,399
Didn't you think
we'd just be exempt
1281
00:59:28,482 --> 00:59:30,317
from all these things?
1282
00:59:30,401 --> 00:59:31,485
I never gave it a thought.
1283
00:59:31,568 --> 00:59:33,779
Yeah, I never thought
these things would happen.
1284
00:59:34,822 --> 00:59:35,948
In a way, I thought--
I mean, yes.
1285
00:59:36,031 --> 00:59:37,950
I had that feeling that none
of those old-age things.
1286
00:59:38,033 --> 00:59:41,453
Arthritis, bursitis,
rheumatism.
1287
00:59:41,537 --> 00:59:43,247
- Hon!
- No, I've got bursitis.
1288
00:59:47,251 --> 00:59:49,420
That was the last time
I saw Maurice Hogenboom.
1289
00:59:51,338 --> 00:59:53,340
He didn't want anything
to do with you, old guys.
1290
00:59:53,424 --> 00:59:54,300
No. No.
1291
00:59:54,383 --> 00:59:57,011
He went to Brazil
and he was photographing
1292
00:59:57,094 --> 00:59:58,971
and he stepped
backwards off a cliff.
1293
01:00:00,472 --> 01:00:02,057
There were some
thousands of feet.
1294
01:00:09,148 --> 01:00:11,191
See what happens
when you step back.
1295
01:00:14,945 --> 01:00:16,530
All hangs together.
1296
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,333
So, you were spotting.
1297
01:00:27,416 --> 01:00:28,792
I was spotting, yeah.
1298
01:00:30,544 --> 01:00:32,671
And then I got
an envelope and a cardboard.
1299
01:00:33,547 --> 01:00:35,758
I didn't have a cardboard.
I did.
1300
01:00:35,841 --> 01:00:37,384
But I didn't want to use it.
1301
01:00:37,468 --> 01:00:39,636
So I used a mounted print
instead, 'cause I'm getting
1302
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,221
really low on cardboard.
1303
01:00:41,305 --> 01:00:43,599
And I put it by the front door,
so that I wouldn't forget it.
1304
01:00:45,142 --> 01:00:46,393
And the contacts that I dried
1305
01:00:46,477 --> 01:00:48,312
in the electric dryer
were already dry.
1306
01:00:50,898 --> 01:00:52,691
So I looked through
this first good look
1307
01:00:52,775 --> 01:00:55,694
through my viewer,
so I could really see the face
1308
01:00:56,445 --> 01:00:57,946
and they were not good.
1309
01:00:58,030 --> 01:01:00,074
Were they good enough
for The Times?
1310
01:01:00,157 --> 01:01:01,408
Probably.
1311
01:01:01,492 --> 01:01:02,493
But he gave out nothing.
1312
01:01:02,576 --> 01:01:03,994
It's not that
he didn't give out.
1313
01:01:05,287 --> 01:01:06,455
It's that we didn't connect.
1314
01:01:06,538 --> 01:01:08,832
He was so hostile though.
1315
01:01:08,916 --> 01:01:11,585
Yeah, it does reflect
in a way on me somehow.
1316
01:01:11,668 --> 01:01:14,129
No, he-- he certainly made it
difficult though.
1317
01:01:15,339 --> 01:01:17,257
Yeah, but like
had he been attracted to me.
1318
01:01:18,842 --> 01:01:22,346
Because men often take
very different pictures
1319
01:01:22,429 --> 01:01:24,515
from women of each other,
because I've seen pictures
1320
01:01:24,598 --> 01:01:26,517
of men that women have taken.
1321
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,311
They're sometimes so charming
and such a come on.
1322
01:01:29,395 --> 01:01:31,397
Like some of Shayla's pictures
of men are just wonderful
1323
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:32,481
and touching.
1324
01:01:33,732 --> 01:01:36,193
Like there she is,
this beautiful woman out there
1325
01:01:36,276 --> 01:01:37,861
on the streets
and she aims her camera
1326
01:01:37,945 --> 01:01:41,031
at a construction worker.
1327
01:01:41,115 --> 01:01:42,074
I'm getting off track.
1328
01:01:42,157 --> 01:01:43,826
I can't even remember
what the track was.
1329
01:01:43,909 --> 01:01:46,036
You were-- you were looking
at the Ginsberg.
1330
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:47,413
Yeah.
1331
01:01:47,496 --> 01:01:49,289
And it really didn't have much.
1332
01:01:49,998 --> 01:01:52,042
Actually, I hated it
the first look.
1333
01:01:52,126 --> 01:01:54,211
Second look, I thought,
"Well, it's possible.
1334
01:01:54,294 --> 01:01:55,796
I mean, it's not
uninteresting."
1335
01:02:00,175 --> 01:02:01,093
But I did think
1336
01:02:01,176 --> 01:02:03,220
in my snobby way
it would be great to have
1337
01:02:03,303 --> 01:02:06,682
Ginsberg and Burroughs
in a book, in my book.
1338
01:02:10,269 --> 01:02:16,275
Like when Susan said, only
for her friends, I was thinking,
1339
01:02:16,358 --> 01:02:18,068
"Would Susan Sontag
write an introduction
1340
01:02:18,152 --> 01:02:19,027
to my book?
1341
01:02:19,111 --> 01:02:20,446
Or should I have
Vince Aletti write it?
1342
01:02:20,529 --> 01:02:21,822
Or Frank could write
something funny."
1343
01:02:21,905 --> 01:02:24,032
The publisher would probably
have something to say
1344
01:02:24,116 --> 01:02:25,367
about that anyhow.
1345
01:02:25,451 --> 01:02:27,619
Oh, he'd probably love it.
She'd probably help sell books.
1346
01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:29,037
I mean, wouldn't you be
more likely to pick up
1347
01:02:29,163 --> 01:02:30,747
a photography book?
1348
01:02:30,789 --> 01:02:32,374
If-- I mean, I'm sure
1349
01:02:32,458 --> 01:02:35,294
it would help sales
than by Vince Aletti.
1350
01:02:35,377 --> 01:02:37,921
I would really love
to make money off of it.
1351
01:02:37,963 --> 01:02:39,798
Also have it get around.
1352
01:02:44,303 --> 01:02:46,388
You know, I've always had
a star thing.
1353
01:02:47,181 --> 01:02:50,184
Wanting to be
some kind of a star or a star.
1354
01:02:51,018 --> 01:02:54,104
I would like my work
to stand above that.
1355
01:02:55,981 --> 01:02:59,693
I would like my work
to stand about that.
1356
01:02:59,776 --> 01:03:02,070
That my work could stand
so all by itself
1357
01:03:02,154 --> 01:03:03,572
without a single star in it.
1358
01:03:03,655 --> 01:03:04,781
Well, it could.
1359
01:03:06,325 --> 01:03:10,037
I mean, I find the star thing
very superfluous.
1360
01:03:11,205 --> 01:03:14,374
But they're not
your everyday stars.
1361
01:03:15,876 --> 01:03:17,878
Like to me,
those were stars in the show.
1362
01:03:17,961 --> 01:03:19,004
Hm.
1363
01:03:19,087 --> 01:03:20,297
It's-- it's a different thing.
1364
01:03:20,380 --> 01:03:21,465
You know, these people
are very accessible.
1365
01:03:21,548 --> 01:03:23,091
Like Joan Crawford.
1366
01:03:23,175 --> 01:03:25,344
It's like the same thing.
1367
01:03:26,178 --> 01:03:28,013
Like-- like Joan Crawford.
1368
01:03:28,805 --> 01:03:29,890
I mean, wouldn't you go
out of your way
1369
01:03:29,973 --> 01:03:31,683
to see Joan Crawford?
1370
01:03:31,767 --> 01:03:33,727
She's not one
that interests me that much.
1371
01:03:34,978 --> 01:03:36,980
If she was around the corner,
you would see her.
1372
01:03:37,064 --> 01:03:40,067
No, I'm telling you,
I'm very blasé about stars.
1373
01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:41,401
What about an evening
with Joan Crawford?
1374
01:03:41,485 --> 01:03:43,820
I think it would be
gigantically boring.
1375
01:03:45,572 --> 01:03:48,242
You're probably right.
I'd still be very curious.
1376
01:03:48,325 --> 01:03:50,369
Yeah,
I'd rather meet Bette Davis.
1377
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:52,996
Well, there are
other people that--
1378
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:54,289
I mean, I just picked
Joan Crawford,
1379
01:03:54,373 --> 01:03:57,376
because Vince showed me a book
1380
01:03:57,459 --> 01:03:59,169
and on the cover
there was a scene
1381
01:03:59,253 --> 01:04:03,340
from, I think it was King Kong
in New York, some movie
1382
01:04:04,258 --> 01:04:07,844
where New York floods
and you see these big waves
1383
01:04:07,928 --> 01:04:09,638
coming down the street
and it was Herald Square
1384
01:04:09,721 --> 01:04:10,847
with Crawford.
1385
01:04:42,462 --> 01:04:43,589
Where was I?
1386
01:04:46,091 --> 01:04:49,469
I put them in the envelope
over by the door
1387
01:04:52,097 --> 01:04:55,976
and I look at the Ginsbergs
and I don't like them.
1388
01:04:58,770 --> 01:05:00,564
But I said, "Well,
1389
01:05:00,647 --> 01:05:03,025
there are one or two
that aren't really that bad.
1390
01:05:03,108 --> 01:05:07,738
And I'm sure if I really print
it incredibly..."
1391
01:05:12,451 --> 01:05:13,744
Printing can sometimes...
1392
01:05:16,371 --> 01:05:17,998
What? Bring out things?
1393
01:05:19,416 --> 01:05:20,667
Yeah.
1394
01:05:27,049 --> 01:05:29,635
I mean,
even in the quality of the face.
1395
01:05:35,015 --> 01:05:38,810
Like in one print the person
looks completely different.
1396
01:05:42,439 --> 01:05:46,443
It's like adding something
or uh, forcing something
1397
01:05:46,526 --> 01:05:49,946
to happen, which is
interesting.
1398
01:06:00,165 --> 01:06:02,125
And I uh, started to write down
1399
01:06:02,209 --> 01:06:03,835
my last notes of this.
1400
01:06:09,216 --> 01:06:10,801
And say, "I'm going to bed."
1401
01:06:13,804 --> 01:06:17,224
But then I got up
once I'd done that
1402
01:06:17,307 --> 01:06:20,894
and I went inside
the harpsichord
1403
01:06:23,689 --> 01:06:26,316
and I run through part
of the Bach thing that I know.
1404
01:06:30,570 --> 01:06:36,576
And make a few mistakes,
but I do it over
1405
01:06:36,660 --> 01:06:38,870
until I play it nicely
and it sounds good.
1406
01:06:45,752 --> 01:06:50,507
And I turn out the lights
and first I set the clock
1407
01:06:50,590 --> 01:06:51,758
and brush my teeth.
1408
01:06:51,842 --> 01:06:54,386
You hadn't eaten
this whole time since dinner.
1409
01:06:55,512 --> 01:06:57,639
I would've eaten
six things by now.
1410
01:06:57,723 --> 01:06:59,641
Actually, I was feeling bloated.
1411
01:07:01,226 --> 01:07:02,769
I don't know why,
1412
01:07:02,853 --> 01:07:05,522
whether it was tension
or why does one feel bloated?
1413
01:07:07,441 --> 01:07:09,484
What is that a sign of?
1414
01:07:09,568 --> 01:07:10,694
Because I didn't eat much
1415
01:07:10,777 --> 01:07:13,905
for dinner but I felt like
the food was in my stomach
1416
01:07:13,989 --> 01:07:14,781
for hours.
1417
01:07:14,865 --> 01:07:16,992
Well, it was probably
shitty food.
1418
01:07:17,075 --> 01:07:19,202
I think your stomach is shrunk.
That's what it is.
1419
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:22,038
No, it's actually sticking out.
1420
01:07:22,122 --> 01:07:24,374
No, I-- I think your stomach
has gotten so small
1421
01:07:24,458 --> 01:07:26,710
from not eating
that a little food
1422
01:07:26,793 --> 01:07:28,462
can stick it out.
1423
01:07:28,545 --> 01:07:30,422
After one
and a half liverwurst sandwiches
1424
01:07:30,505 --> 01:07:32,466
my stomach
was actually popping out.
1425
01:07:34,593 --> 01:07:37,888
I think it really has something
to do with smoking and tension.
1426
01:07:40,891 --> 01:07:42,267
You put a lot of energy
into smoking
1427
01:07:42,350 --> 01:07:44,561
that you could be using
in other ways.
1428
01:07:46,062 --> 01:07:47,731
It's no good, I know.
1429
01:07:49,608 --> 01:07:51,610
It upsets me.
1430
01:07:51,693 --> 01:07:53,361
It really does.
1431
01:07:54,404 --> 01:07:55,989
I wish I could stop.
1432
01:07:57,032 --> 01:07:58,492
But I don't feel good.
1433
01:08:01,870 --> 01:08:03,747
I have smokers hangover
all day long.
1434
01:08:08,418 --> 01:08:14,800
And then the harpsichord,
brush my teeth,
1435
01:08:17,469 --> 01:08:21,556
set the clock for 10:00 a.m.
and I go to bed.
1436
01:08:25,852 --> 01:08:28,230
I fall asleep
almost immediately.
1437
01:08:39,533 --> 01:08:42,786
And then within a few minutes
uh,
1438
01:08:45,038 --> 01:08:48,583
I wake up, because the whores
are out on the street outside.
1439
01:08:49,876 --> 01:08:52,087
They have this conversation.
1440
01:08:52,170 --> 01:08:53,296
They talk so loud
1441
01:08:53,380 --> 01:08:54,798
with closed windows
I can hear every word
1442
01:08:54,881 --> 01:08:55,966
they're saying.
1443
01:08:56,049 --> 01:08:59,177
What are they talking about?
About the trade?
1444
01:08:59,261 --> 01:09:00,136
Yeah.
1445
01:09:00,929 --> 01:09:02,180
Just shop talk?
1446
01:09:02,264 --> 01:09:03,306
Yeah.
1447
01:09:05,725 --> 01:09:07,435
Do they keep you awake
for a while?
1448
01:09:08,854 --> 01:09:10,355
No.
1449
01:09:10,438 --> 01:09:11,314
I got up.
1450
01:09:13,817 --> 01:09:15,318
And I looked out the window.
1451
01:09:18,321 --> 01:09:20,240
I watched them to see
what they looked like.
1452
01:09:22,826 --> 01:09:26,162
One was putting on makeup
in the dark
1453
01:09:26,955 --> 01:09:30,166
in the mirror of a car,
1454
01:09:31,209 --> 01:09:32,210
outside mirror.
1455
01:09:34,462 --> 01:09:35,463
Actually, it wasn't a car.
1456
01:09:35,547 --> 01:09:38,550
It was that blue truck
1457
01:09:39,759 --> 01:09:42,888
that comes from the junkies'
detention center up the block.
1458
01:09:48,852 --> 01:09:53,148
They have this blue truck
with tinted windows
1459
01:09:54,566 --> 01:09:56,776
and it has a small,
rectangular mirror.
1460
01:09:59,654 --> 01:10:03,783
And then I went back
to bed and fell asleep.