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Guys, how are you?
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Good to see you. How are you?
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Good to see you.
Good to see you.
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So right now,
you're gonna watch a video
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of the Lee County Sheriff's
Office recruitment.
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And what does that mean to me?
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It means,
"Do you have what it takes?"
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As you see,
it starts off with a badge.
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Do you have what it takes?
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911. What is your emergency?
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To answer the call,
day or night.
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To serve others
before yourself.
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"To answer the call,
day or night,
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and serve others
before yourself."
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We are a 24/7 operation.
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The calls never stop,
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and we are in the business of,
"What happens next?"
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Nationalism is more than just
an image, it's an attitude.
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Do you have what it takes to be
a law enforcement officer?
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Then come join my family
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at the Lee County
Sheriff's Office.
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And let's keep paradise
paradise.
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"Let's keep paradise paradise."
That's our motto.
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In my county,
the great people
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and the great residents
get to enjoy life.
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Lois, our suspect,
tried to take that,
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and she committed a murder
in my county.
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And that is why
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when you look at this video,
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and you see everyone
that dedicates their lives
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to service to others
before self,
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that's a personal attack.
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When you attack
one of my residents,
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my great residents,
one of my great tourists,
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that's a personal attack on me.
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Mm-hmm.
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We're in the parking lot
of the Snug Harbor
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Marina Village
on Fort Myers Beach.
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Right above me here
is room 404,
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where the crime scene was
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for the homicide investigation.
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Uh, and this is where
it all started.
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This is where we found the body.
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I haven't actually
been back here
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since the investigation
wrapped up,
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so a lot of different memories
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and emotions
are coming back to me.
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Because I remember being up
all those hours
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working on this case,
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not knowing the answers to
all the questions that I have.
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So, the frustration
coming back,
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knowing that
I'll probably never know them.
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The condominium itself
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was in order for the most part,
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but once I made entry
into the bathroom,
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I noticed that the decedent
was on the floor.
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The manner of death
was homicide.
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The cause of death
being a gunshot.
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And it entered her back
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and exited out
her shoulder area.
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It seemed to me that she was
taken by surprise,
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given that she was
in the bathroom.
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She was probably
getting ready for bed.
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Maybe brushing her teeth,
brushing her hair,
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whatever it may be.
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And the gunshot entered
from the back.
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So whoever did this came up
from behind her
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and took her by surprise.
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The state of Florida has
what's called Marcy's Law,
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which keeps private
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the victim information
for any crime,
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so that's why we always have
to refer to them as victim.
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There was towels placed
at the bottom of the door.
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The towel meant to me that
there was somebody else there.
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That this wasn't a suicide,
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this wasn't something
that she had done on her own.
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There was no casing,
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so someone had cleaned up
after themselves.
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We knew there was
another person involved
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and they're no longer on scene.
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That's very disturbing
for many reasons.
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First of all, putting towels
down by the door
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so the odor of the deceased
is not coming out.
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So the culpable
state of mind is,
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"Yes, I committed
this homicide,
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but now I'm gonna
cover things up the best I can
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to get as much time as I can
to get out of here."
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Obviously,
the master bathroom,
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bedroom was being utilized
by our victim,
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but what we found
in the spare bathroom,
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the spare bedroom,
was it was being used as well.
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There was used soap,
used towels.
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The bedsheets in the bedroom
had been disturbed.
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So it was obvious to us
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that there was two people
in that room,
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and staying there as well.
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It led us to believe
that our victim
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knew who our suspect was.
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It's all hands on deck.
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And we quickly scan
hours of surveillance.
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We got video
surveillance footage
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from the Smokin' Oyster
restaurant,
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which is right next door
to Marina Village.
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In that video footage,
we see
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our victim meeting a woman
at the bar.
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So here, this lady, this woman,
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looks like anybody's mom,
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or anybody's grandmother.
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Okay? She's looking at the menu.
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She's befriending our victim,
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who is in this safe zone,
or what appears to be safe zone.
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Once we saw
our suspect on video,
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we didn't really know
at that point who she was,
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but then putting two
and two together,
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'cause it just so happened that
on the night before, April 8th,
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I was on call received
regarding the information
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of Lois Riess
and the Cadillac.
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Okay, hold on a second.
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Let me see exactly
what Lois Riess looks like.
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So I made a phone call
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to the authorities
up in Dodge County.
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They sent me a picture.
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That's when I was like,
"Oh, okay.
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I know who
we're dealing with now."
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A lot of surveillance cameras
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in and around Marina Village.
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One of the most helpful ones
to us was right here
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at the landing for the elevator.
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And that provided
all the people coming and going.
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Later that evening,
on April 5th,
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we see them two together
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going towards
the victim's room.
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Eventually,
we no longer see our victim.
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We see Lois Riess
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come out to the landing area.
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And she appears distraught.
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She looks even
like she might be crying.
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There were all these
camera crews
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around Snug Harbor.
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Snug Harbor is one block away,
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so I pull over and I said
to a cameraman,
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"Um, what's going on?"
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He says, "Well, there was
a murder in room 404."
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That was my inkling there that
something bad had happened.
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That Lois was involved in it.
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That night,
we turned on the news,
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and we watched every segment
of the news,
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flipping from channel
to channel,
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to find out what had gone on.
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Deputies found a body
inside a room
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in the Marina Village
at Snug Harbor.
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Authorities began looking
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for 56-year-old Lois Riess...
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Wanted
for murder in two states.
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One of them
her own look-alike.
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59-year-old Pamela Hutchinson
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of Bradenton, Florida.
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Learned that this person
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who was not with us anymore
is Pamela Hutchinson.
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Saw pictures of her smiling,
happy face.
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Felt so bad.
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Hey, Roland.
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Hi, there.
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Looks like we're floating.
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What I love about Florida
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is I don't have to shovel snow.
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And I love the lifestyle
down here.
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All my neighbors
are from different states now,
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but we all kind of have
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the same interests,
it was like magic
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that we all ended
up on the same street,
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or the same area, you know?
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'Cause we all had
very similar likes,
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you know, as far as boating
and partying,
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and whatever, you know?
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Do you like to party?
- Yeah, some--
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Not as hard as I used to, but...
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They always have
live entertainment
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out by the water there.
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And this was one of Pam's...
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pretty much favorite haunts
on Bridge Street here.
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If there was one person left
to talk to,
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it was hard to get her out.
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It's hard to put into words.
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Yeah, so many, uh...
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...fond memories on this boat.
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I don't know anybody
who didn't like her.
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She's got a smile,
she's got an attitude.
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Very open personality.
Very outgoing.
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There would be times when I was
supposed to meet her somewhere,
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and she didn't make it 'cause
she'd stop somewhere for lunch,
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and she'd get
to talking to somebody,
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and she never made
her final destination,
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or whatever, you know?
She just, like...
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So, um, she was a free spirit.
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You could be the jealous type
when you're out with Pam,
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'cause she talked to anybody.
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There were times
when she would come home
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from being out
and I'd been in bed,
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she said, "Barbara, you up?"
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"I am now. What do you want
to talk about?"
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We'd be up talking till three,
four in the morning.
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I'm like, "Pam, I can't
keep doing this."
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This is Pam.
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This is her.
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This is her. This shows
what she's really like.
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She's fun, exciting, um,
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not too shy to express herself.
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Oops.
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This is the blouse.
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If you go on her Facebook page,
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you'll see her sitting
on that horse
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as free as a bird,
wearing this shirt...
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00:13:35,544 --> 00:13:38,881
when she was in Mexico, and...
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it reminds me of her.
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00:13:43,469 --> 00:13:45,137
There you go, Pam.
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It's just strange to look at
that shirt with not her in it.
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She brought everything to life.
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Everything.
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I think she wanted to come
to Florida to start over.
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She had been married,
was divorced,
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and came up here
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and wanted to start a life
over again.
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And it's a good place to start.
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She was
in a very controlled marriage.
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She couldn't really see the
friends that she grew up with,
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00:14:23,634 --> 00:14:26,095
or whatever,
it was basically
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whoever he brought to the table.
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And it sounds like he was,
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you know, totally controlling,
I guess.
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Eventually,
she just rebelled or whatever.
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00:14:38,941 --> 00:14:41,819
Sometimes mental abuse
can be just as bad
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as physical abuse, you know?
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She always said she was happy
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that I came along when I did,
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when she really needed
some help,
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or something to make
her feel good about herself,
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'cause she had been
downtrodden for so long.
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I introduced her
to all of my friends and...
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I've met a lot of...
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00:15:23,194 --> 00:15:25,029
women over the years,
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and she was kind of like...
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a one of a kind, you know,
at least in my eyes, but...
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A friend of hers
had a husband who died.
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And this friend of hers wanted
to scatter the husband's ashes
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00:15:47,718 --> 00:15:50,805
on Sanibel,
on the beach on Sanibel.
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00:15:50,805 --> 00:15:52,890
And Pam started checking
into room rates,
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00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:55,017
and she said,
"Man, it's expensive."
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And I said, "Pam,
why don't you let me call
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00:15:58,396 --> 00:16:00,231
Snug Harbor where
I've got a time-share.
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00:16:00,231 --> 00:16:03,150
Let me see if I can get you
a room rate there." And I did.
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00:16:03,567 --> 00:16:06,779
And I said, "When you go,
you've gotta go to SOB's.
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00:16:06,779 --> 00:16:09,365
It's the shrimp and oyster bar
under the North Bridge.
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00:16:09,365 --> 00:16:11,742
You have to have
their spicy shrimp.
255
00:16:11,742 --> 00:16:13,119
It is out of this world."
256
00:16:23,254 --> 00:16:25,131
We were talking
and texting
257
00:16:25,131 --> 00:16:26,465
while she was down there,
258
00:16:26,465 --> 00:16:28,509
and she was saying
what a good time it was,
259
00:16:28,509 --> 00:16:31,095
and that she was gonna stay
an extra day.
260
00:16:34,432 --> 00:16:36,684
I think she mentioned
she had met somebody
261
00:16:36,684 --> 00:16:38,394
and had been talking.
262
00:16:39,311 --> 00:16:41,522
And that was it,
she dropped off the charts.
263
00:16:41,522 --> 00:16:45,276
I tried texting her,
calling her, texting, calling.
264
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,045
She had met a woman,
265
00:17:04,045 --> 00:17:06,005
gone out to dinner with
that woman,
266
00:17:06,005 --> 00:17:08,632
been sad hearing her story
267
00:17:08,632 --> 00:17:10,676
about this woman being widowed.
268
00:17:10,676 --> 00:17:13,637
Pam was the kind of person
who would pick up stray dogs
269
00:17:13,637 --> 00:17:15,431
and she liked to have
a good time herself,
270
00:17:15,431 --> 00:17:17,516
but she also had a big heart
and was caring,
271
00:17:17,516 --> 00:17:20,311
and felt compassion
for this woman and her story,
272
00:17:20,311 --> 00:17:22,355
and so invited her
to spend the night.
273
00:17:32,823 --> 00:17:35,493
And that woman
turned out to be Lois Riess.
274
00:17:38,079 --> 00:17:40,498
When I didn't hear from her
the next day,
275
00:17:40,498 --> 00:17:41,665
that's when...
276
00:17:41,665 --> 00:17:45,169
I thought, well, it was Pam,
I just figured
277
00:17:45,169 --> 00:17:47,505
she got sidetracked again
or something.
278
00:17:47,505 --> 00:17:50,049
Whatever, you know,
I didn't get alarmed.
279
00:17:50,049 --> 00:17:52,885
I just thought
she got sidetracked.
280
00:17:53,386 --> 00:17:56,555
So then
I started getting worried.
281
00:17:56,972 --> 00:17:59,266
And I called Snug Harbor
282
00:17:59,266 --> 00:18:01,519
and the girl said, "Barb?
283
00:18:02,311 --> 00:18:05,022
Don't you know?"
I said, "Know what?"
284
00:18:05,398 --> 00:18:08,025
And she said,
"Pam's been murdered."
285
00:18:08,025 --> 00:18:11,612
And I s-- I said, "What?"
286
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,160
Pam Hutchinson was gonna
go back home on Thursday,
287
00:18:18,452 --> 00:18:21,038
but Lois talked her
into staying an extra night.
288
00:18:21,038 --> 00:18:24,875
And that was the night
that Lois killed her.
289
00:18:25,710 --> 00:18:28,295
I mean,
you hear about stuff like that
290
00:18:28,295 --> 00:18:30,715
happening every day,
unfortunately,
291
00:18:30,715 --> 00:18:33,718
in today's--
in the world we live in today,
292
00:18:33,718 --> 00:18:36,595
but you never think
it's gonna happen to you.
293
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:41,851
I felt terrible because
I had told Pam to go there.
294
00:18:41,851 --> 00:18:44,103
And I felt guilty
295
00:18:44,645 --> 00:18:47,231
because I thought it was
a safe place.
296
00:18:47,231 --> 00:18:50,443
I really did,
I-I would go there myself.
297
00:18:50,985 --> 00:18:53,863
It's outside, it's open air.
298
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,157
It's a safe place, I thought,
299
00:18:56,157 --> 00:18:58,576
and I told her to go there.
300
00:19:00,619 --> 00:19:02,329
Is it my fault?
301
00:19:03,289 --> 00:19:05,374
No. I-- No.
302
00:19:05,958 --> 00:19:08,252
But I-I loved Pam.
303
00:19:09,837 --> 00:19:12,590
I really did, I could...
304
00:19:14,425 --> 00:19:16,635
"Pam, what the hell
were you doing?"
305
00:19:20,431 --> 00:19:22,767
They pinned it down to a woman.
306
00:19:22,767 --> 00:19:26,395
You never think a murderer
is a woman.
307
00:19:27,188 --> 00:19:28,898
Especially with a gun.
308
00:19:30,649 --> 00:19:34,737
It takes all the feelings
out of your heart and soul
309
00:19:34,737 --> 00:19:38,074
when you see that somebody could
do something like that.
310
00:19:40,451 --> 00:19:42,703
We were all kind of
shocked and floored
311
00:19:42,703 --> 00:19:44,330
by what had transpired,
312
00:19:44,330 --> 00:19:47,124
'cause we didn't really
think that Lois
313
00:19:47,124 --> 00:19:49,668
would commit
any further crimes.
314
00:19:50,336 --> 00:19:52,838
She didn't fit the profile
of some-- as...
315
00:19:52,838 --> 00:19:55,716
somebody that would go out
and commit another homicide.
316
00:19:56,967 --> 00:20:01,889
When I heard that this
lady had called the police,
317
00:20:01,889 --> 00:20:05,393
reported Lois being there,
318
00:20:05,935 --> 00:20:10,523
and the police told her, "Well,
I'm sure she's not here anymore
319
00:20:10,856 --> 00:20:12,608
on Fort Myers Beach,"
320
00:20:12,608 --> 00:20:14,610
and she was.
321
00:20:15,152 --> 00:20:16,862
Now this way,
322
00:20:17,321 --> 00:20:19,824
behind the green part
of the fence,
323
00:20:19,824 --> 00:20:21,158
Lois had her car parked
324
00:20:21,158 --> 00:20:23,536
with her nose
facing toward the fence.
325
00:20:24,203 --> 00:20:26,872
So she was half a block
from my house.
326
00:20:30,543 --> 00:20:32,336
I don't think they looked.
327
00:20:33,629 --> 00:20:35,423
Like I said,
lack of communication.
328
00:20:35,423 --> 00:20:37,675
I think Dodge County
and Lee County
329
00:20:37,675 --> 00:20:39,218
should've been talking
to each other
330
00:20:39,218 --> 00:20:40,928
and looking for her more.
331
00:20:42,388 --> 00:20:43,806
Lee County,
332
00:20:43,806 --> 00:20:47,309
in checking
their nationwide database,
333
00:20:47,309 --> 00:20:49,019
sees that
334
00:20:49,019 --> 00:20:51,022
Lois is a person of interest
335
00:20:51,022 --> 00:20:54,525
but not a suspect
in a homicide.
336
00:20:54,525 --> 00:20:57,570
And nobody comes after her.
337
00:20:58,696 --> 00:21:01,073
It is not a stretch
to believe that
338
00:21:01,073 --> 00:21:04,368
Dodge County's failure
to name her
339
00:21:04,368 --> 00:21:06,787
as a suspect,
340
00:21:07,246 --> 00:21:09,415
and issue an arrest warrant,
341
00:21:09,415 --> 00:21:12,376
meant that Lee County went...
You know?
342
00:21:12,376 --> 00:21:14,795
Person of interest?
That might mean,
343
00:21:14,795 --> 00:21:17,381
"What happened at your house?"
You know?
344
00:21:17,381 --> 00:21:19,008
"Was your husband fighting
with somebody?
345
00:21:19,008 --> 00:21:20,342
Can you tell us something?"
346
00:21:20,342 --> 00:21:22,303
And that wasn't the case.
347
00:21:22,303 --> 00:21:25,264
They let her go because she was
not named as a suspect.
348
00:21:25,264 --> 00:21:29,101
So, of-of course that would have
changed the whole...
349
00:21:30,436 --> 00:21:32,563
It would have changed the future
of a lot of people,
350
00:21:32,563 --> 00:21:34,440
including Pam Hutchinson.
351
00:21:34,899 --> 00:21:37,568
So where do we think
the mistake happened?
352
00:21:37,568 --> 00:21:40,237
Was it that they didn't
charge her with homicide?
353
00:21:40,237 --> 00:21:41,739
What went wrong?
354
00:21:41,739 --> 00:21:44,450
I can't say or wouldn't say
it was really a mistake,
355
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:46,202
or anything went wrong.
356
00:21:46,202 --> 00:21:47,828
It was just the fact
that Minnesota
357
00:21:47,828 --> 00:21:49,955
was not that far
in their investigation yet.
358
00:21:50,456 --> 00:21:52,917
We did what we could
to locate her,
359
00:21:52,917 --> 00:21:55,461
but she just seemed
to kind of blend in
360
00:21:55,461 --> 00:21:57,463
and no one else
really knew of her.
361
00:21:59,673 --> 00:22:03,260
The identity
of who Lois Riess is
362
00:22:03,260 --> 00:22:05,137
takes on a new dimension,
363
00:22:05,888 --> 00:22:09,892
because of the care
with which she
364
00:22:09,892 --> 00:22:11,602
prepared the body.
365
00:22:11,602 --> 00:22:14,647
And the fact that she was
able to, again, spend the night
366
00:22:14,647 --> 00:22:18,192
in the same condo
as her victim,
367
00:22:18,734 --> 00:22:20,778
just like she did with Dave.
368
00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:25,366
There was a thoughtfulness
to this process.
369
00:22:25,366 --> 00:22:26,784
That strikes me.
370
00:22:26,784 --> 00:22:30,287
Also, the fact that
she has picked this victim,
371
00:22:30,287 --> 00:22:31,956
a stranger,
372
00:22:31,956 --> 00:22:34,583
and killed her in cold blood.
373
00:22:35,084 --> 00:22:36,836
I mean, completely changes
374
00:22:36,836 --> 00:22:39,171
our understanding
of who Lois Riess is.
375
00:22:41,048 --> 00:22:43,509
Do you think that
when you met Pamela,
376
00:22:43,509 --> 00:22:46,303
you knew that something bad
was gonna happen to her?
377
00:22:46,303 --> 00:22:47,722
No, no.
378
00:22:47,722 --> 00:22:50,933
She-she approached me
and met me.
379
00:22:50,933 --> 00:22:52,435
She was also alone.
380
00:22:52,435 --> 00:22:54,979
And it was at--
we were having dinner,
381
00:22:54,979 --> 00:22:58,649
um, sitting barside,
having dinner, two single women,
382
00:22:58,649 --> 00:23:00,067
and, um,
383
00:23:00,651 --> 00:23:02,445
like I said,
I make friends easily.
384
00:23:02,445 --> 00:23:05,156
And she does too.
She seemed really nice.
385
00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:07,658
And she was a very nice lady.
386
00:23:07,658 --> 00:23:08,993
And, um...
387
00:23:09,493 --> 00:23:11,245
we were just sharing
some stories
388
00:23:11,245 --> 00:23:13,080
and she was
recently divorced
389
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:14,999
from an abusive marriage,
390
00:23:14,999 --> 00:23:17,084
and she was staying in Florida.
391
00:23:17,084 --> 00:23:19,587
And she says I didn't have
to stay in a hotel,
392
00:23:19,587 --> 00:23:21,172
that I could stay with her.
393
00:23:21,172 --> 00:23:23,215
And that's how I met her.
394
00:23:23,632 --> 00:23:26,552
But never,
I had never anticipated--
395
00:23:26,552 --> 00:23:29,346
anticipated hurting that woman.
396
00:23:29,346 --> 00:23:32,016
But you did bring a gun
to the hotel.
397
00:23:32,016 --> 00:23:35,186
The gun was one of the things
I brought with me when I packed.
398
00:23:35,186 --> 00:23:37,355
I packed
the most unusual things
399
00:23:37,355 --> 00:23:39,023
when I left Minnesota.
400
00:23:39,023 --> 00:23:41,400
Just trying to be honest,
you did bring it--
401
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,569
She helped me unload
all my luggage
402
00:23:43,569 --> 00:23:45,696
and it was in my luggage.
403
00:23:49,575 --> 00:23:51,327
But so how did it go from
404
00:23:51,327 --> 00:23:53,204
meeting her,
she's a very nice woman,
405
00:23:53,204 --> 00:23:54,705
- to killing her?
- Well, that's where,
406
00:23:54,705 --> 00:23:57,958
when I say it's a puzzle,
it truly is a puzzle because...
407
00:23:58,834 --> 00:24:01,128
I don't have all the memories
408
00:24:01,128 --> 00:24:03,756
and all the answers for that.
409
00:24:07,802 --> 00:24:10,262
I know I had asked her
to help me
410
00:24:10,262 --> 00:24:11,639
with a suicide attempt.
411
00:24:11,639 --> 00:24:13,808
I know I asked this woman,
412
00:24:13,808 --> 00:24:16,852
and we stayed up way
into the light-- night, um,
413
00:24:16,852 --> 00:24:19,438
talking about her life
and my life,
414
00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:21,607
and she understood,
415
00:24:22,191 --> 00:24:23,776
from what I told her of my life,
416
00:24:23,776 --> 00:24:26,404
she understood me wanting
to take my life.
417
00:24:26,404 --> 00:24:29,740
And I don't know,
that's all I really can grasp--
418
00:24:29,740 --> 00:24:32,743
That's so scary because
it wasn't her taking--
419
00:24:32,743 --> 00:24:35,579
I mean, you killed her.
It wasn't-- again, you--
420
00:24:35,579 --> 00:24:36,997
It feels like potentially,
421
00:24:36,997 --> 00:24:39,291
you're thinking about
what happened with David.
422
00:24:39,291 --> 00:24:41,043
Both of these people
ended up dead
423
00:24:41,043 --> 00:24:43,671
when it was talking
about taking your own life.
424
00:24:43,671 --> 00:24:45,464
- Yeah.
Yeah.
425
00:24:45,464 --> 00:24:47,216
It sounds like that.
426
00:24:49,135 --> 00:24:52,805
Mental illness.
The mind is a crazy thing.
427
00:24:53,222 --> 00:24:54,598
All I know is it happened.
428
00:24:57,476 --> 00:24:59,854
When you look
at the gambler,
429
00:24:59,854 --> 00:25:02,732
and they're thinking,
and they're playing,
430
00:25:03,274 --> 00:25:07,278
they can remove
everything emotional
431
00:25:07,278 --> 00:25:10,031
within themselves, away from it.
432
00:25:10,823 --> 00:25:13,159
And that's how
they can survive it.
433
00:25:13,659 --> 00:25:16,579
To me, it looks like
434
00:25:16,579 --> 00:25:19,498
she impulsively killed her,
435
00:25:19,498 --> 00:25:22,126
and she is so removed
436
00:25:22,126 --> 00:25:24,253
from herself at that point
437
00:25:24,628 --> 00:25:26,630
that it's just actions.
438
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:30,634
Having to work through
439
00:25:30,634 --> 00:25:32,803
my uncle's murder,
440
00:25:32,803 --> 00:25:36,015
and then to find out
it happened again,
441
00:25:36,348 --> 00:25:38,059
like, nothing adds up.
442
00:25:39,268 --> 00:25:43,606
David's situation, it added up
to a certain extent.
443
00:25:43,606 --> 00:25:47,068
You know, I could put the pieces
of that puzzle together,
444
00:25:47,401 --> 00:25:51,113
but the Pamela situation,
445
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:54,742
still to this day does not--
446
00:25:54,742 --> 00:25:56,494
I don't know how to put it
into words,
447
00:25:56,494 --> 00:25:58,579
it just doesn't make sense
to me.
448
00:25:59,747 --> 00:26:02,666
After she shot Pam,
449
00:26:03,417 --> 00:26:06,253
she spent the night
in the condo
450
00:26:06,253 --> 00:26:09,006
with Pam, the dead Pam,
451
00:26:09,006 --> 00:26:10,674
and the next day,
452
00:26:10,674 --> 00:26:13,636
she packed up
all of her belongings
453
00:26:13,636 --> 00:26:15,471
into Pam's car,
454
00:26:15,471 --> 00:26:17,640
which was a white Acura,
455
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,308
and then she left.
456
00:26:20,184 --> 00:26:23,813
The suspect took some
belongings of the victim.
457
00:26:23,813 --> 00:26:26,273
A lot of personal items,
personal information,
458
00:26:26,273 --> 00:26:29,860
that being a credit card,
debit card, her checkbook.
459
00:26:31,153 --> 00:26:34,115
Lois was using
the victim's information
460
00:26:34,115 --> 00:26:35,741
to make her getaway.
461
00:26:36,742 --> 00:26:39,036
She went to a bank
and actually, in person,
462
00:26:39,036 --> 00:26:42,331
went up to the teller
and was wearing Pam's hat.
463
00:26:42,331 --> 00:26:44,709
And she withdrew $5,000,
464
00:26:44,709 --> 00:26:46,669
posing as Pam.
465
00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:49,547
God,
I remember that hat.
466
00:26:49,547 --> 00:26:52,216
It gives me the chills
thinking about it.
467
00:26:52,883 --> 00:26:54,719
The first thing
that came to me was
468
00:26:54,719 --> 00:26:57,263
how Pam would put it
on her head and cock it.
469
00:26:57,263 --> 00:26:58,764
And it was like...
470
00:26:59,181 --> 00:27:00,224
God.
471
00:27:00,766 --> 00:27:02,768
She really did it.
472
00:27:04,478 --> 00:27:07,314
We know that
she stopped at a Hilton hotel
473
00:27:07,314 --> 00:27:08,774
in the Ocala area,
474
00:27:08,774 --> 00:27:11,318
and made three separate
withdrawal transactions
475
00:27:11,318 --> 00:27:12,737
for $500 each,
476
00:27:12,737 --> 00:27:15,114
also using
the victim's information.
477
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,575
She smiles,
478
00:27:17,575 --> 00:27:20,411
shows the ID of our victim,
479
00:27:20,411 --> 00:27:21,996
as if it was her,
480
00:27:21,996 --> 00:27:24,665
and goes on her way
and drives off.
481
00:27:25,291 --> 00:27:27,126
It's like nothing happened.
482
00:27:27,918 --> 00:27:29,795
She's got a cold heart.
483
00:27:29,795 --> 00:27:32,214
She's able to execute,
484
00:27:32,673 --> 00:27:34,925
kill, and go on her way.
485
00:27:34,925 --> 00:27:37,470
And she could absolutely
be killing again,
486
00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:41,307
and the last thing I wanted
was a serial killer on the run.
487
00:27:47,146 --> 00:27:49,065
It's one thing
to shoot your husband,
488
00:27:49,065 --> 00:27:51,609
if there's a bad marriage,
anger in the marriage.
489
00:27:51,609 --> 00:27:53,319
But then now she's someone
490
00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:56,280
who has coldly and calculatedly
491
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,407
chosen a victim,
492
00:27:58,407 --> 00:27:59,658
and killed her,
493
00:27:59,658 --> 00:28:01,827
simply so she can steal
her identity,
494
00:28:01,827 --> 00:28:05,456
use her funds,
and evade the law.
495
00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:08,751
So this becomes
much more chilling
496
00:28:08,751 --> 00:28:11,837
at this point
of who Lois Riess is.
497
00:28:12,755 --> 00:28:15,299
I was-- I was like, "Jesus.
498
00:28:15,299 --> 00:28:16,967
For crying out loud.
499
00:28:16,967 --> 00:28:20,471
I mean, what are you doing,
woman?" I just--
500
00:28:20,471 --> 00:28:21,680
I was taken aback.
501
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,183
I was like, "Holy mackerel."
You know?
502
00:28:24,975 --> 00:28:28,354
I am just in awe.
I don't know how it happens.
503
00:28:28,896 --> 00:28:32,608
Is money worth that much
to murder people?
504
00:28:32,608 --> 00:28:34,318
Just, why?
505
00:28:41,033 --> 00:28:42,952
When Lois left Florida,
506
00:28:42,952 --> 00:28:45,162
it always seemed like we were
one step behind her
507
00:28:45,162 --> 00:28:46,580
in this timeline.
508
00:28:47,373 --> 00:28:50,292
We're finding out information
about her and where she'd been,
509
00:28:50,292 --> 00:28:53,045
but we weren't finding out
information about
510
00:28:53,045 --> 00:28:55,506
where she was going and what
her true intentions were.
511
00:28:56,424 --> 00:28:59,009
I was thousands of miles away
from my home.
512
00:28:59,385 --> 00:29:03,139
I was a hands-on mother
and a hands-on grandmother.
513
00:29:03,139 --> 00:29:06,767
I-- For me to leave
my family was
514
00:29:06,767 --> 00:29:10,104
terrifying,
and terrifying for me.
515
00:29:12,523 --> 00:29:13,941
I never in my life would imagine
516
00:29:13,941 --> 00:29:15,901
leaving my children
and grandchildren.
517
00:29:16,527 --> 00:29:19,697
We know she stopped
at least at one casino,
518
00:29:19,697 --> 00:29:22,575
where she won a $1,500 jackpot.
519
00:29:22,575 --> 00:29:24,577
This was in Louisiana.
520
00:29:25,327 --> 00:29:27,121
She used
her own identity,
521
00:29:27,121 --> 00:29:29,206
her own information
to collect her winnings,
522
00:29:29,206 --> 00:29:31,333
which I thought
was very strange.
523
00:29:31,917 --> 00:29:35,379
She had already used
the identity of the victim
524
00:29:35,379 --> 00:29:36,714
to withdraw money down here,
525
00:29:36,714 --> 00:29:38,716
so why wouldn't
she just continue that?
526
00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:40,134
That's not very smart
527
00:29:40,134 --> 00:29:42,511
if you're trying to hide
from law enforcement.
528
00:29:43,387 --> 00:29:45,556
I don't know
if she got confused
529
00:29:45,556 --> 00:29:47,266
and she just forgot
530
00:29:47,266 --> 00:29:50,311
where she was, who she was
supposed to be playing.
531
00:29:51,437 --> 00:29:52,605
Maybe at that point,
532
00:29:52,605 --> 00:29:53,939
she figured
she didn't want to use
533
00:29:53,939 --> 00:29:55,733
Pam Hutchinson's identity
534
00:29:55,733 --> 00:29:58,652
because that would be a clue
as to where she is.
535
00:29:59,278 --> 00:30:02,323
I'm sure she's not thinking
that the car is being tracked
536
00:30:02,323 --> 00:30:04,033
by highway cameras.
537
00:30:04,992 --> 00:30:06,911
She had attempted
a transaction
538
00:30:06,911 --> 00:30:08,996
at a local gas station,
which was declined,
539
00:30:08,996 --> 00:30:10,581
using the victim's information.
540
00:30:10,581 --> 00:30:13,876
And then we received
a license plate reader hit
541
00:30:13,876 --> 00:30:16,629
in the Corpus Christi,
Texas area, as well.
542
00:30:18,214 --> 00:30:21,592
I was seeing
all of these articles
543
00:30:21,592 --> 00:30:24,011
on Facebook and the news.
544
00:30:24,011 --> 00:30:27,056
They're saying
all of these crazy things,
545
00:30:27,056 --> 00:30:28,599
like, "Killer Grandma."
546
00:30:28,599 --> 00:30:30,684
You've heard
of the killer grandma.
547
00:30:30,684 --> 00:30:33,354
- So called, "Killer Grandma."
- First, the killer grandma
548
00:30:33,354 --> 00:30:36,273
murdered her husband Dave
in Minnesota.
549
00:30:36,273 --> 00:30:38,442
Our suspect,
she's an elderly woman.
550
00:30:38,442 --> 00:30:41,153
But is she elderly?
How old was she?
551
00:30:41,153 --> 00:30:44,240
Fifty-six?
Do we think she's elderly?
552
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,909
- When you look at our suspect...
Yes.
553
00:30:46,909 --> 00:30:48,661
...you feel she's harmless.
554
00:30:48,661 --> 00:30:50,204
She's up in her age.
555
00:30:50,204 --> 00:30:54,041
She looks like someone's mom
or grandmom.
556
00:30:55,042 --> 00:30:56,961
And she's a wolf
in sheep's clothing.
557
00:30:57,670 --> 00:31:00,923
They put billboards up
in four different states.
558
00:31:00,923 --> 00:31:03,300
They offered a reward.
She became...
559
00:31:03,300 --> 00:31:05,803
the highest level
of wanted criminal
560
00:31:05,803 --> 00:31:07,304
for the U.S. Marshals.
561
00:31:09,223 --> 00:31:10,641
One thing
that comes to mind
562
00:31:10,641 --> 00:31:12,768
is she's heading for Mexico.
563
00:31:13,269 --> 00:31:16,147
So we're reaching out to CBP
564
00:31:16,147 --> 00:31:18,357
along the border of Texas.
565
00:31:19,984 --> 00:31:21,902
But then, once again,
566
00:31:21,902 --> 00:31:23,362
she disappeared from sight,
567
00:31:23,362 --> 00:31:25,906
and they didn't know
where she was.
568
00:31:31,954 --> 00:31:34,874
So, when Lois was here...
569
00:31:34,874 --> 00:31:36,333
Yeah.
570
00:31:36,542 --> 00:31:38,335
What was her favorite song?
571
00:31:38,919 --> 00:31:40,296
"Parrotheads in Cowboy Boots."
572
00:31:40,296 --> 00:31:43,049
Oh, you should sing it.
Do you remember it?
573
00:31:43,049 --> 00:31:44,842
Let's see if I can remember it.
574
00:31:53,225 --> 00:31:56,103
♪ Headed south down 77 ♪
575
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,523
♪ Friends told me that
it would be heaven ♪
576
00:31:59,523 --> 00:32:02,401
♪ 110 in the shade,
not a cloud in sight ♪
577
00:32:02,401 --> 00:32:04,528
♪ Looked like hell to me... ♪
578
00:32:04,528 --> 00:32:07,865
Most people don't know
South Padre Island exists.
579
00:32:07,865 --> 00:32:09,992
We're a very small island
580
00:32:09,992 --> 00:32:13,913
off the southern tip of Texas.
581
00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:18,751
It's just one of those
comforting, wonderful places,
582
00:32:18,751 --> 00:32:20,711
that you wouldn't even know
was here.
583
00:32:20,711 --> 00:32:24,548
♪ ...There were Parrotheads
in cowboy boots ♪
584
00:32:24,548 --> 00:32:27,426
♪ Deadheads in tie-dye
swimming suits ♪
585
00:32:27,426 --> 00:32:31,055
♪ Pearl snap shirts
and bikini bottoms ♪
586
00:32:31,055 --> 00:32:34,225
♪ Cowboy hats,
everybody had 'em ♪
587
00:32:34,225 --> 00:32:36,685
♪ Europeans
in guayabera shirts ♪
588
00:32:37,728 --> 00:32:41,232
♪ Grandmas
in their birthday suits ♪
589
00:32:41,232 --> 00:32:44,318
♪ Rum, cerveza,
and tequila shooters ♪
590
00:32:44,318 --> 00:32:47,405
♪ Was the damnedest
sight to see ♪
591
00:32:47,405 --> 00:32:51,534
♪ But it surely looked
like home to me ♪
592
00:32:57,748 --> 00:33:02,586
PadreRitaGrill is
a fun, family-oriented place.
593
00:33:03,254 --> 00:33:05,965
The Motel 6 had
a lot of people come over.
594
00:33:05,965 --> 00:33:07,299
We stayed open late.
595
00:33:07,299 --> 00:33:09,009
They'd check in late
and they'd say,
596
00:33:09,009 --> 00:33:11,721
"Go to PadreRitaGrill.
It's right in the parking lot."
597
00:33:12,388 --> 00:33:15,099
This lovely lady
walks in and sits
598
00:33:15,099 --> 00:33:16,767
at the corner of the bar.
599
00:33:16,767 --> 00:33:19,061
And she's, um,
600
00:33:19,061 --> 00:33:21,188
dressed in beachwear
and she has on a hat.
601
00:33:21,188 --> 00:33:25,443
And she's happy
and she's kind of pretty.
602
00:33:25,443 --> 00:33:28,612
And she's sitting there,
looking at the entertainer,
603
00:33:28,612 --> 00:33:29,947
which is my husband,
604
00:33:29,947 --> 00:33:32,116
and she's enjoying
every bit of it.
605
00:33:32,116 --> 00:33:34,618
So, of course,
I get behind the bar,
606
00:33:34,618 --> 00:33:38,122
and I start talking to her,
and I asked her name.
607
00:33:38,122 --> 00:33:40,416
And she went, "La-- Donna."
608
00:33:40,750 --> 00:33:41,834
And I went...
609
00:33:42,835 --> 00:33:44,920
"That's odd. LaDonna.
610
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,174
That's kind of like... Madonna."
611
00:33:48,174 --> 00:33:50,259
And she goes,
"Oh, yeah, that's why I--
612
00:33:50,259 --> 00:33:52,636
I normally just go by Donna."
613
00:33:52,636 --> 00:33:54,138
And I said, "Oh, okay."
614
00:33:54,138 --> 00:33:57,058
So every time she came in
it was like Cheers,
615
00:33:57,058 --> 00:33:59,143
and we'd go, "LaDonna!"
616
00:33:59,143 --> 00:34:02,688
And she'd sit down
at the same place at the bar.
617
00:34:03,314 --> 00:34:06,192
And she would tell me
stories about
618
00:34:06,192 --> 00:34:08,986
how she was looking
for a condo on the island,
619
00:34:08,986 --> 00:34:11,655
and how she recently
came into some money,
620
00:34:11,655 --> 00:34:13,115
and she was a widow.
621
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:15,826
She definitely became one
of the family.
622
00:34:15,826 --> 00:34:18,329
We all knew her.
We all joked with her.
623
00:34:18,329 --> 00:34:20,164
Arnie flirted with her.
624
00:34:20,873 --> 00:34:23,834
♪ If I'd have known you were
coming, I'd have baked a cake ♪
625
00:34:23,834 --> 00:34:26,212
♪ Baked a cake, baked a cake ♪
626
00:34:27,129 --> 00:34:30,257
♪ If I'd have known you were
coming, I'd have baked a cake ♪
627
00:34:30,257 --> 00:34:33,469
♪ But instead,
you get a crappy daiquiri ♪
628
00:34:35,012 --> 00:34:37,056
I saw this in a cartoon once.
629
00:34:37,515 --> 00:34:39,392
So I'm pretty sure I can do it.
630
00:34:39,892 --> 00:34:41,435
Don't you dare.
631
00:34:41,435 --> 00:34:43,854
Don't you dare!
632
00:34:44,647 --> 00:34:46,691
Anyway, I saved it.
633
00:34:46,691 --> 00:34:48,234
It goes like this.
634
00:34:49,735 --> 00:34:52,571
Bam, bam, bam.
635
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,907
And that's for me.
636
00:34:56,117 --> 00:34:58,327
The very first time
I talked to her,
637
00:34:58,327 --> 00:35:00,579
I happened to be standing
behind a bar.
638
00:35:00,579 --> 00:35:02,748
And she ordered
a top-shelf margarita.
639
00:35:02,748 --> 00:35:06,335
She was wearing a yellow
and white floral shirt
640
00:35:06,335 --> 00:35:09,046
and she had blue jean shorts on.
641
00:35:09,505 --> 00:35:11,424
I thought she was really cute,
642
00:35:11,424 --> 00:35:14,176
and she paid
for her first drink in cash.
643
00:35:14,176 --> 00:35:15,928
And she tipped me very well.
644
00:35:16,345 --> 00:35:19,223
And then she ordered another one
about ten minutes later.
645
00:35:19,557 --> 00:35:22,309
I come back and I said,
"Are you done?"
646
00:35:22,768 --> 00:35:24,895
And she goes, "No.
647
00:35:24,895 --> 00:35:27,231
I want another
top-shelf margarita."
648
00:35:27,565 --> 00:35:30,860
She said, "What time do you
get off?" I said, "Well...
649
00:35:31,402 --> 00:35:34,280
What time is it now?
About 5:30, 6:00?"
650
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,865
I said, "I get off at 8:00."
651
00:35:36,115 --> 00:35:38,325
And she goes,
"Well, do you want to go out?"
652
00:35:38,325 --> 00:35:40,161
And I looked her up and down
653
00:35:40,161 --> 00:35:42,204
because I'd just fed her three
top-shelf margaritas.
654
00:35:42,204 --> 00:35:44,457
There's no way she's getting up
off that stool.
655
00:35:44,874 --> 00:35:47,460
And she said, "Okay,
I'll be back at eight o'clock."
656
00:35:47,460 --> 00:35:49,545
And then she just...
657
00:35:49,545 --> 00:35:51,964
...drunk-stumbled
off her chair and went home.
658
00:35:52,339 --> 00:35:54,592
She never came back
that night?
659
00:35:54,592 --> 00:35:55,676
No.
660
00:35:55,676 --> 00:35:58,054
No, she never went anywhere
that night.
661
00:35:58,054 --> 00:35:59,930
Because I did my job.
662
00:36:00,431 --> 00:36:03,392
We teased him a lot that, um,
663
00:36:03,392 --> 00:36:07,188
she wanted him and they were
gonna be the next item.
664
00:36:07,730 --> 00:36:10,733
So the next day,
she comes in again.
665
00:36:11,317 --> 00:36:13,944
She asked me back to the pool.
666
00:36:13,944 --> 00:36:15,821
And I said,
"I gotta work all night."
667
00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:18,616
Missed your chance.
668
00:36:18,616 --> 00:36:20,993
I didn't say
what was in my head.
669
00:36:20,993 --> 00:36:23,120
Which was?
-"Crazy woman."
670
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,039
"What are you, nuts?"
671
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:26,707
- No.
Why "crazy woman"?
672
00:36:26,707 --> 00:36:28,250
'Cause she was crazy.
673
00:36:29,835 --> 00:36:31,962
When you wait tables
as long as I have,
674
00:36:31,962 --> 00:36:33,547
and bartended as long as I have,
675
00:36:33,547 --> 00:36:38,010
you know when somebody is off.
676
00:36:38,594 --> 00:36:42,306
And she was a little off.
677
00:36:47,311 --> 00:36:49,772
It's been said
that South Padre Island
678
00:36:49,772 --> 00:36:52,983
is a minimum security prison
for misfits,
679
00:36:52,983 --> 00:36:55,695
and, truly, that is the case.
680
00:36:56,487 --> 00:36:57,822
She wanted to be a local,
681
00:36:57,822 --> 00:36:59,949
and she wanted to be treated
like a local.
682
00:36:59,949 --> 00:37:05,287
And it was easy to do that
because she was so, um...
683
00:37:06,288 --> 00:37:08,165
Miss Congeniality.
684
00:37:08,165 --> 00:37:11,836
And it-- she was a friend,
685
00:37:11,836 --> 00:37:13,921
and we were happy to see her.
686
00:37:16,090 --> 00:37:19,301
All these law enforcement
departments searching for her,
687
00:37:19,301 --> 00:37:21,429
again, have no idea
where she is once
688
00:37:21,429 --> 00:37:24,390
the Acura is last seen
in Texas.
689
00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:28,602
So it's a worldwide woman hunt.
690
00:37:29,061 --> 00:37:30,980
Okay? And we are out there
691
00:37:30,980 --> 00:37:33,774
doing everything we can
because we know every second,
692
00:37:33,774 --> 00:37:35,067
every hour,
693
00:37:35,067 --> 00:37:37,278
she has the ability
to kill again.
694
00:37:37,862 --> 00:37:39,864
She's already shown
that she's done it twice,
695
00:37:39,864 --> 00:37:42,366
and she's willing to travel,
she's willing to
696
00:37:42,366 --> 00:37:44,785
take what she needs
from whoever she needs.
697
00:37:44,785 --> 00:37:47,329
And it's only a matter
of time before
698
00:37:47,329 --> 00:37:48,873
she needs to eat again,
699
00:37:48,873 --> 00:37:50,666
she needs a new vehicle.
700
00:37:51,083 --> 00:37:52,626
Whatever it may be, so,
701
00:37:52,626 --> 00:37:55,588
there's only one way of getting
that when you're on the run.
702
00:37:57,548 --> 00:37:59,759
I just wanted a friend,
you know?
703
00:38:01,302 --> 00:38:02,720
I just really
704
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:05,639
thought that she was gonna be
a good friend to me,
705
00:38:05,639 --> 00:38:07,433
and we were gonna hang out.
706
00:38:10,061 --> 00:38:14,774
In 2018, I was alone,
707
00:38:15,149 --> 00:38:17,818
and very much
708
00:38:18,486 --> 00:38:20,571
kind of to myself a lot.
709
00:38:22,198 --> 00:38:26,911
And was anxious
to find friendship.
710
00:38:28,579 --> 00:38:31,165
I had already been a widow
for about three years.
711
00:38:31,999 --> 00:38:35,169
I'd go to South Padre
almost every weekend.
712
00:38:35,795 --> 00:38:37,546
People are really friendly
over there,
713
00:38:37,546 --> 00:38:39,965
and we'll start a conversation.
714
00:38:40,758 --> 00:38:43,969
I met LaDonna
at Liam's restaurant.
715
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,932
I was sitting at the bar,
having an appetizer,
716
00:38:48,432 --> 00:38:50,434
and she sat down and she says,
717
00:38:50,434 --> 00:38:52,978
"Well, I guess we're both
eating alone tonight."
718
00:38:54,146 --> 00:38:55,940
So then we just started talking
719
00:38:55,940 --> 00:38:58,109
and she said that she was
720
00:38:58,567 --> 00:39:00,486
there to get property.
721
00:39:00,486 --> 00:39:04,949
She really wanted to maybe make
South Padre her home.
722
00:39:04,949 --> 00:39:06,909
She had just lost her husband,
723
00:39:07,284 --> 00:39:12,081
and that her family wasn't
allowing her to grieve properly.
724
00:39:13,249 --> 00:39:16,335
And we just hit it off,
725
00:39:16,335 --> 00:39:18,838
like we've been
best friends forever.
726
00:39:22,675 --> 00:39:24,468
When she told me
she was a widow,
727
00:39:24,468 --> 00:39:26,721
I had no clue
that she was a widow
728
00:39:26,721 --> 00:39:28,848
because she killed her husband.
729
00:39:32,101 --> 00:39:35,271
Her time on
South Padre Island puzzles me,
730
00:39:35,855 --> 00:39:39,191
because it seems like
she was there
731
00:39:39,650 --> 00:39:42,028
as a tourist,
not as a fugitive.
732
00:39:42,653 --> 00:39:44,947
To be drinking at the bar,
733
00:39:45,322 --> 00:39:49,160
shopping,
hanging out on the beach,
734
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:50,703
sitting by the pool,
735
00:39:51,370 --> 00:39:53,080
befriending people.
736
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:54,999
It just seems very unusual.
737
00:39:57,460 --> 00:40:00,379
Addictive gamblers will
738
00:40:00,379 --> 00:40:03,841
seek out pleasure centers
739
00:40:03,841 --> 00:40:05,551
and areas
740
00:40:05,551 --> 00:40:07,636
that they can
put themselves into
741
00:40:07,636 --> 00:40:09,889
to make them feel superior.
742
00:40:10,556 --> 00:40:13,225
We see it all the way
through her journey
743
00:40:13,225 --> 00:40:15,061
to South Padre Island.
744
00:40:15,978 --> 00:40:18,022
The beach communities,
745
00:40:18,022 --> 00:40:20,483
the people she sought out,
746
00:40:20,483 --> 00:40:23,569
the places she sat at the bar,
747
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:26,405
because if you sit at the bar,
748
00:40:26,405 --> 00:40:28,282
you can be the center
of attention.
749
00:40:28,657 --> 00:40:32,870
That is very, very typical
of a gambler.
750
00:40:36,082 --> 00:40:38,542
The next time
we got together was,
751
00:40:38,542 --> 00:40:41,253
I believe it was
Friday the 13th.
752
00:40:41,587 --> 00:40:45,257
She took me to dinner at Liam's.
753
00:40:46,050 --> 00:40:48,469
She had mentioned
she wasn't sure
754
00:40:48,469 --> 00:40:51,722
if South Padre
was really going to
755
00:40:51,722 --> 00:40:54,600
be where she wanted
to make her home.
756
00:40:55,351 --> 00:40:56,894
And I just mentioned,
you know,
757
00:40:56,894 --> 00:40:59,480
that she might really like
where I live.
758
00:41:01,107 --> 00:41:02,525
I certainly wouldn't bring a man
759
00:41:02,525 --> 00:41:04,527
that I just met
back to my house,
760
00:41:04,527 --> 00:41:08,781
but a woman, I just
didn't think anything of it.
761
00:41:11,909 --> 00:41:14,578
We ended up going
to the hot tub,
762
00:41:14,578 --> 00:41:18,916
and just kind of relaxing,
and talking.
763
00:41:18,916 --> 00:41:22,211
She kept saying
how she felt so relaxed.
764
00:41:23,379 --> 00:41:24,755
It is very relaxing.
765
00:41:24,755 --> 00:41:26,799
You can almost
go to sleep in there.
766
00:41:29,844 --> 00:41:32,513
I asked her what
she had retired from,
767
00:41:32,513 --> 00:41:34,598
and she said that
she and her husband
768
00:41:34,598 --> 00:41:37,685
had a wax worm farm.
769
00:41:38,602 --> 00:41:40,563
I didn't know what that was...
770
00:41:40,563 --> 00:41:42,523
...but she explained to me.
771
00:41:43,399 --> 00:41:46,152
It's bait for fishing.
772
00:41:46,152 --> 00:41:49,363
Oh, I finally asked her
how her husband had died,
773
00:41:49,363 --> 00:41:51,282
and she said
he had a heart attack.
774
00:41:52,950 --> 00:41:55,619
Then she slept
in the guest room
775
00:41:55,619 --> 00:41:57,371
and I slept in my bed.
776
00:42:16,432 --> 00:42:18,684
We got up the next morning,
777
00:42:19,685 --> 00:42:21,645
then I just dropped her off.
778
00:42:26,150 --> 00:42:28,277
Later on in that week,
779
00:42:29,195 --> 00:42:31,572
we talked about
maybe getting together
780
00:42:31,572 --> 00:42:33,282
the following weekend
781
00:42:33,949 --> 00:42:35,409
to have fun.
782
00:42:50,341 --> 00:42:52,593
What we're doing here
with the white shrimp
783
00:42:52,593 --> 00:42:54,053
is very mellow flavor,
784
00:42:54,053 --> 00:42:56,764
and the brown shrimp
has more iodine.
785
00:42:57,098 --> 00:42:59,392
Once we get them breaded
like this,
786
00:42:59,392 --> 00:43:01,227
we drop them into this egg wash.
787
00:43:01,227 --> 00:43:02,520
Egg wash...
788
00:43:03,062 --> 00:43:06,607
into the panko
with more seasoning.
789
00:43:06,857 --> 00:43:09,610
Of course, you always got people
wanting it different ways,
790
00:43:09,610 --> 00:43:12,238
but here at Dirty Al's,
it's fried.
791
00:43:19,870 --> 00:43:23,749
A lady walked into Dirty Al's
in the evening.
792
00:43:24,375 --> 00:43:27,378
And my waiter, Carlos Grant,
793
00:43:28,045 --> 00:43:31,382
was talking to her, she was
asking questions about what
794
00:43:31,632 --> 00:43:33,384
bars she can go to,
795
00:43:33,384 --> 00:43:35,594
because she wanted
to sit at our bar,
796
00:43:35,594 --> 00:43:37,763
and Carlos told her
there's no bar.
797
00:43:38,097 --> 00:43:40,641
He was talking to her
and I was standing behind her,
798
00:43:40,641 --> 00:43:42,143
about four or five feet.
799
00:43:42,518 --> 00:43:45,229
I kept staring at her and I kept
going, "I know this lady."
800
00:43:45,229 --> 00:43:48,441
There is a nationwide manhunt
tonight for a grandmother.
801
00:43:48,441 --> 00:43:50,568
Police say she has killed twice
802
00:43:50,568 --> 00:43:52,611
and should be considered
armed and dangerous.
803
00:43:52,611 --> 00:43:54,947
She's led police
and U.S. Marshals
804
00:43:54,947 --> 00:43:57,700
on a pursuit stretching
from Minnesota to Florida,
805
00:43:57,700 --> 00:43:59,785
and now Texas,
where police fear
806
00:43:59,785 --> 00:44:01,579
she could kill again.
807
00:44:01,579 --> 00:44:03,497
I happened to watch,
808
00:44:03,497 --> 00:44:05,124
every morning, CBS News,
809
00:44:05,124 --> 00:44:08,711
and for three days straight,
I kept seeing a picture of her.
810
00:44:08,711 --> 00:44:10,713
I'm very bad with names.
811
00:44:11,213 --> 00:44:14,050
But apparently,
I'm pretty good with faces.
812
00:44:14,675 --> 00:44:15,885
She looked like a person
813
00:44:15,885 --> 00:44:18,137
that was having
a good time, I thought.
814
00:44:19,263 --> 00:44:21,640
Had a smile on her face,
nothing going on,
815
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,642
wasn't worried about--
816
00:44:23,642 --> 00:44:25,686
just enjoying herself.
817
00:44:25,686 --> 00:44:28,856
And that's kind of funny,
818
00:44:28,856 --> 00:44:32,693
from all the stories I heard
about her on the news,
819
00:44:32,693 --> 00:44:35,279
about killing a lady
820
00:44:35,988 --> 00:44:39,158
and her husband
so she could go gamble.
821
00:44:39,658 --> 00:44:41,786
I know it's not funny
about killing people,
822
00:44:41,786 --> 00:44:43,537
but she was enjoying herself.
823
00:44:43,537 --> 00:44:45,247
That, I couldn't understand.
824
00:44:49,001 --> 00:44:50,378
She wanted to meet people.
825
00:44:50,378 --> 00:44:52,213
That's exactly what
she was talking to Carlos,
826
00:44:52,213 --> 00:44:54,465
where could she go
to meet people? Carlos told her
827
00:44:54,465 --> 00:44:57,009
to try next door at Sea Ranch.
828
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:58,969
We watched her drive
829
00:44:58,969 --> 00:45:01,305
and pull in
over to the Sea Ranch.
830
00:45:03,015 --> 00:45:05,267
A lady came
into the bar,
831
00:45:05,267 --> 00:45:06,977
sat right there,
832
00:45:06,977 --> 00:45:10,106
and ordered a glass of Riesling.
833
00:45:10,648 --> 00:45:13,484
And that's the beginning
of this story.
834
00:45:13,484 --> 00:45:15,778
One glass of Riesling.
835
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,992
After she left, I told
everybody that was Lois Riess.
836
00:45:23,202 --> 00:45:27,081
Of course, all my employees
were telling me I was wrong.
837
00:45:27,456 --> 00:45:29,458
I called the U.S. Marshals
and they were here
838
00:45:29,458 --> 00:45:31,335
within 15 minutes.
839
00:45:33,754 --> 00:45:36,257
April 19th, 2018,
840
00:45:36,257 --> 00:45:38,926
around 7:00 p.m.,
we received a tip
841
00:45:38,926 --> 00:45:42,972
regarding a fugitive,
Lois Riess.
842
00:45:42,972 --> 00:45:45,141
We fielded the call
pretty quickly,
843
00:45:45,141 --> 00:45:47,393
so we were able to get
to the location
844
00:45:47,393 --> 00:45:48,853
to interview the tipster.
845
00:45:50,855 --> 00:45:53,190
Myself and our
task force officer
846
00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:55,776
began to do a grid search
of the island
847
00:45:55,776 --> 00:45:57,778
to try to locate the car.
848
00:45:58,612 --> 00:46:00,031
We began to proceed north
849
00:46:00,031 --> 00:46:02,450
through a conjoining
parking lot.
850
00:46:03,784 --> 00:46:06,370
Lo and behold,
there was the car right there,
851
00:46:06,370 --> 00:46:08,039
just one restaurant north
852
00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:10,041
parked outside
the bar entrance door
853
00:46:10,041 --> 00:46:12,418
to the Sea Ranch restaurant.
854
00:46:18,591 --> 00:46:20,259
U.S. Marshals contacted us.
855
00:46:20,259 --> 00:46:22,511
They sent two deputy marshals
over.
856
00:46:25,681 --> 00:46:28,017
I have my four officers
857
00:46:28,017 --> 00:46:29,769
stage up around Sea Ranch,
858
00:46:29,769 --> 00:46:31,896
just as a safety perimeter
859
00:46:31,896 --> 00:46:33,981
in case something went south.
860
00:46:35,066 --> 00:46:37,485
She wanted
to pay her bill,
861
00:46:37,485 --> 00:46:39,987
and her bill was $34,
862
00:46:39,987 --> 00:46:43,449
and she asked me if I had change
for a hundred-dollar bill.
863
00:46:43,449 --> 00:46:45,785
And I said, "Sure, no problem."
864
00:46:45,785 --> 00:46:48,496
So, to give you an example...
865
00:46:50,206 --> 00:46:53,209
Let's pretend this
is a hundred-dollar bill.
866
00:46:53,793 --> 00:46:56,587
So, I took
the hundred-dollar bill,
867
00:46:56,587 --> 00:46:58,297
she was sitting here,
I put it there,
868
00:46:58,297 --> 00:47:00,800
because I had to go
make a drink over there.
869
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:05,596
The first three of us
were wearing plain clothes.
870
00:47:05,596 --> 00:47:08,474
So we walked kind of past her,
871
00:47:08,474 --> 00:47:09,892
turned around behind her,
872
00:47:09,892 --> 00:47:11,268
and I grabbed one of her arms.
873
00:47:11,268 --> 00:47:13,646
The task force officer grabbed
the other arm.
874
00:47:13,646 --> 00:47:16,315
And I said, "Lois, we're gonna
take you out of here.
875
00:47:16,315 --> 00:47:18,484
Don't cause a scene.
Don't do anything stupid."
876
00:47:20,152 --> 00:47:22,780
Four U.S. Marshals
come in
877
00:47:22,780 --> 00:47:25,616
and zip-tie her
and lead her out.
878
00:47:28,869 --> 00:47:31,956
So I'm shaking a cocktail,
and I'm looking,
879
00:47:31,956 --> 00:47:34,291
and the hundred-dollar bill
is still on the bar,
880
00:47:34,291 --> 00:47:36,335
so the tab was paid.
881
00:47:39,547 --> 00:47:41,006
Cut to the chase.
882
00:47:43,467 --> 00:47:45,761
I gotta make a drink right now
if that's okay.
883
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:51,517
It's a little bit odd.
884
00:47:51,517 --> 00:47:56,439
Usually fugitives have
something to say, good or bad.
885
00:47:56,439 --> 00:47:57,815
They're very emotional.
886
00:47:57,815 --> 00:47:59,942
They're upset
that they've been arrested.
887
00:47:59,942 --> 00:48:02,445
She had no facial expressions
whatsoever.
888
00:48:02,903 --> 00:48:04,155
She may have had remorse,
889
00:48:04,155 --> 00:48:05,990
but it's really hard to tell
890
00:48:05,990 --> 00:48:07,908
what's going on
inside of her head.
891
00:48:10,119 --> 00:48:11,996
It was decided
that we would bring her
892
00:48:11,996 --> 00:48:13,748
to the South Padre Island
Police Jail.
893
00:48:13,748 --> 00:48:15,166
And at that point,
894
00:48:15,166 --> 00:48:17,710
she looked back towards
the front of the vehicle
895
00:48:17,710 --> 00:48:19,295
and held her head down.
896
00:48:34,894 --> 00:48:35,936
Hello.
897
00:48:35,936 --> 00:48:37,563
Step over here, please.
898
00:48:38,856 --> 00:48:40,358
Stand right here.
899
00:48:44,737 --> 00:48:47,615
Okay, so we're gonna walk
this way towards the elevator.
900
00:48:54,830 --> 00:48:56,624
She was very cooperative...
901
00:49:02,129 --> 00:49:04,757
...when we told her to move
to a certain location,
902
00:49:04,757 --> 00:49:06,550
so we could
take her photograph,
903
00:49:06,550 --> 00:49:08,386
she did it compliant.
904
00:49:09,136 --> 00:49:10,888
Okay, follow me.
905
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,201
News travels really fast
on our little island.
906
00:49:36,789 --> 00:49:39,750
The whole story was put
over Facebook
907
00:49:39,750 --> 00:49:41,210
really quickly
and we all knew,
908
00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:43,421
and we were just in shock.
909
00:49:45,756 --> 00:49:49,218
Everyone on our island
is quite friendly and trusting.
910
00:49:49,593 --> 00:49:52,012
We maybe are
a little too friendly
911
00:49:52,012 --> 00:49:53,931
and too inviting,
912
00:49:53,931 --> 00:49:55,975
and that there are
bad people out there,
913
00:49:55,975 --> 00:50:00,438
and, um, she didn't look
like a bad person at all.
914
00:50:00,438 --> 00:50:03,274
So it's kind of confusing,
in a way,
915
00:50:03,274 --> 00:50:06,694
like, who do you trust
and who don't you trust?
916
00:50:07,111 --> 00:50:09,864
Like I said,
I thought she was a little off,
917
00:50:10,197 --> 00:50:12,992
but I never thought
she would kill anybody.
918
00:50:13,325 --> 00:50:16,454
But you never think anybody
is gonna kill anybody, do you?
919
00:50:20,041 --> 00:50:21,917
I would text her.
920
00:50:25,629 --> 00:50:27,048
She didn't respond.
921
00:50:27,048 --> 00:50:28,924
I'd call her a couple times
922
00:50:28,924 --> 00:50:31,218
and no answer.
923
00:50:33,304 --> 00:50:37,767
I went over to Liam's anyway,
that following Saturday.
924
00:50:38,225 --> 00:50:39,977
And I told the bartender,
925
00:50:39,977 --> 00:50:41,979
"I don't know
if my friend's gonna show up,
926
00:50:41,979 --> 00:50:45,524
because I've been trying
to call her, text her.
927
00:50:45,524 --> 00:50:48,861
I haven't gotten any
kind of response." And he says,
928
00:50:50,029 --> 00:50:51,989
"I guess you haven't
seen the news.
929
00:50:51,989 --> 00:50:54,492
She's been arrested
for double murder."
930
00:50:54,492 --> 00:50:56,369
And I just...
931
00:50:57,328 --> 00:50:59,080
I started feeling really sick.
932
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,541
I don't-- I can't describe
the feeling that I had.
933
00:51:03,042 --> 00:51:05,044
This woman befriended me
934
00:51:05,044 --> 00:51:08,005
the way that she befriended Pam,
935
00:51:08,005 --> 00:51:10,049
and she ended up killing
that woman.
936
00:51:10,466 --> 00:51:13,552
I don't know how
I escaped it that night
937
00:51:13,552 --> 00:51:15,096
that she was here.
938
00:51:16,514 --> 00:51:18,974
Maybe because
I had told her about
939
00:51:18,974 --> 00:51:21,894
an incident
with my security cameras.
940
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,730
The police had knocked
on my door one day,
941
00:51:24,730 --> 00:51:27,525
they wanted to see some footage
from my cameras,
942
00:51:27,525 --> 00:51:31,278
because somebody was
breaking into cars.
943
00:51:33,155 --> 00:51:35,324
So I'm thinking
that maybe she knew
944
00:51:35,324 --> 00:51:38,828
that these cameras did a job.
945
00:51:39,245 --> 00:51:41,997
And I just think that God had me
946
00:51:41,997 --> 00:51:43,833
under his wing.
947
00:51:44,208 --> 00:51:46,877
Somebody is looking after me.
948
00:51:47,420 --> 00:51:51,132
And I just felt very blessed
that I'm still alive.
949
00:51:56,137 --> 00:51:58,264
Myself, and at the time,
Sergeant Divis,
950
00:51:58,264 --> 00:52:00,641
flew out there,
we landed in Houston.
951
00:52:01,475 --> 00:52:03,436
Then we drove all the way down
to Brownsville,
952
00:52:03,436 --> 00:52:06,731
eventually made our way out
to South Padre Island.
953
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,859
Go into that room
right over there.
954
00:52:10,234 --> 00:52:11,610
The decision was made,
actually,
955
00:52:11,610 --> 00:52:14,238
that Sergeant Divis
would attempt an interview
956
00:52:14,238 --> 00:52:16,449
along with one
of the Minnesota guys.
957
00:52:27,501 --> 00:52:30,171
She said that she did
not wish to speak with us,
958
00:52:30,171 --> 00:52:32,465
and she remained silent.
959
00:53:04,955 --> 00:53:07,291
My husband and I
left Florida
960
00:53:07,291 --> 00:53:08,876
to go back to Minnesota.
961
00:53:10,836 --> 00:53:13,130
I believe it was April 19th,
962
00:53:13,130 --> 00:53:15,966
and we ended up
at J&H Liquors
963
00:53:16,467 --> 00:53:19,512
in the evening,
meeting some friends in town.
964
00:53:20,262 --> 00:53:23,140
And somebody says,
"Turn up the TV!
965
00:53:23,140 --> 00:53:26,143
We think that Lois
is on the TV."
966
00:53:26,143 --> 00:53:27,686
Around 8:30 last night,
967
00:53:27,686 --> 00:53:30,147
U.S. Marshals
and South Padre Island Police
968
00:53:30,147 --> 00:53:32,274
captured Riess
after the restaurant manager
969
00:53:32,274 --> 00:53:33,484
called in the tip.
970
00:53:33,484 --> 00:53:36,237
The whole place erupted
in a big cheer.
971
00:53:36,612 --> 00:53:39,657
My husband Rod even bought
a round for the whole house,
972
00:53:39,657 --> 00:53:41,784
'cause everybody
was so excited that,
973
00:53:41,784 --> 00:53:44,161
now we didn't have to worry
about where she was
974
00:53:44,161 --> 00:53:45,496
and what she was up to,
975
00:53:45,496 --> 00:53:47,915
and somebody else
was not gonna get murdered.
976
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:52,920
I think I just said,
"Good. Good, finally. Good."
977
00:53:53,629 --> 00:53:56,632
Of course the next big thing
that goes on is...
978
00:53:57,383 --> 00:53:59,093
that's over within a day or two,
979
00:53:59,093 --> 00:54:00,761
and then you move on to,
980
00:54:00,761 --> 00:54:03,472
"Oh, where are they gonna
try her at?" You know?
981
00:54:03,931 --> 00:54:06,976
Florida get her, Minnesota
get her, or what's gonna happen?
982
00:54:09,270 --> 00:54:10,855
I think Sheriff Marceno
983
00:54:10,855 --> 00:54:12,565
wanted her to come back to
984
00:54:12,565 --> 00:54:15,067
Fort Myers first,
because he knew
985
00:54:15,067 --> 00:54:16,777
the case that we had.
986
00:54:17,403 --> 00:54:19,572
We knew that it was solid.
987
00:54:21,032 --> 00:54:23,284
Florida first, Lee County,
988
00:54:23,284 --> 00:54:26,078
she's coming back,
she's facing the music here,
989
00:54:26,078 --> 00:54:28,205
and she's getting hit
like a tsunami.
990
00:54:28,205 --> 00:54:29,540
There's a sense of relief today
991
00:54:29,540 --> 00:54:31,292
because a killer's
off the streets,
992
00:54:31,292 --> 00:54:32,877
and furthermore,
no matter where she went,
993
00:54:32,877 --> 00:54:35,755
no matter where she hid,
we were gonna get her.
994
00:54:38,591 --> 00:54:40,176
Search warrant
was just executed,
995
00:54:40,176 --> 00:54:42,178
room 227, Motel 6,
996
00:54:42,178 --> 00:54:44,597
South Padre Island.
997
00:55:13,834 --> 00:55:15,628
This is what we call
her "go bag."
998
00:55:15,628 --> 00:55:17,546
It was a small black bag.
999
00:55:17,546 --> 00:55:20,091
This is out
in the master bedroom.
1000
00:55:20,091 --> 00:55:22,760
There was duct tape as you
can see in the background.
1001
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,096
There was holsters,
there was magazines,
1002
00:55:25,096 --> 00:55:27,723
there was ammunition,
there was these latex gloves
1003
00:55:27,723 --> 00:55:28,766
inside of it.
1004
00:55:28,766 --> 00:55:30,935
And you can see a pair
of sunglasses
1005
00:55:30,935 --> 00:55:32,937
that was wrapped up
in a white towel.
1006
00:55:32,937 --> 00:55:35,439
That towel was consistent
with the ones that were
1007
00:55:35,439 --> 00:55:37,775
used at Snug Harbor.
1008
00:55:37,775 --> 00:55:40,403
And those are actually
the victim's sunglasses.
1009
00:55:40,403 --> 00:55:41,904
So it appears as if she kept
1010
00:55:41,904 --> 00:55:45,491
a trophy of some sort
in this "go bag."
1011
00:55:47,034 --> 00:55:50,496
And who does that?
Who wears somebody's clothes
1012
00:55:50,496 --> 00:55:52,873
that you just murdered,
or whatever, you know?
1013
00:55:52,873 --> 00:55:57,002
So, I thought that was
disgusting, you know?
1014
00:56:00,005 --> 00:56:02,174
When she gets back
to Lee County,
1015
00:56:03,175 --> 00:56:04,635
she looks disheveled,
1016
00:56:05,636 --> 00:56:07,638
but I'm proud to say
that what we did
1017
00:56:07,638 --> 00:56:09,932
can't bring that loved one back,
1018
00:56:09,932 --> 00:56:12,435
but she does face justice.
1019
00:56:15,229 --> 00:56:16,605
In my county,
1020
00:56:16,605 --> 00:56:18,482
the very few that come here
1021
00:56:18,482 --> 00:56:19,900
that wanna commit crimes,
1022
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:22,486
if they're lucky,
if they're lucky,
1023
00:56:22,486 --> 00:56:24,780
they go to the Marceno Hotel.
1024
00:56:27,533 --> 00:56:30,411
The Marceno Hotel is my jail.
1025
00:56:30,411 --> 00:56:32,204
That's my jail.
1026
00:57:16,582 --> 00:57:17,792
Mm-hmm.
1027
00:57:23,756 --> 00:57:26,258
She's charged
with first degree murder
1028
00:57:26,258 --> 00:57:28,636
in the death of Pam Hutchinson,
1029
00:57:28,636 --> 00:57:30,429
and she's facing
the death penalty.
1030
00:57:30,888 --> 00:57:32,890
This morning,
this Minnesota grandmother
1031
00:57:32,890 --> 00:57:34,975
is fighting
a possible death penalty.
1032
00:57:34,975 --> 00:57:36,894
Prosecutors in Lee County,
Florida,
1033
00:57:36,894 --> 00:57:38,646
explain the homicide
was committed
1034
00:57:38,646 --> 00:57:42,775
in a cold, calculated,
and premeditated manner.
1035
00:58:10,136 --> 00:58:13,013
Something was not
satisfying her
1036
00:58:13,013 --> 00:58:14,306
in her life.
1037
00:58:14,306 --> 00:58:16,392
She needed something fed
1038
00:58:16,392 --> 00:58:17,935
in her heart and soul
1039
00:58:17,935 --> 00:58:21,063
that she wasn't getting
and didn't know how to get.
1040
00:58:23,065 --> 00:58:25,609
Something pushed
Lois this far.
1041
00:58:26,402 --> 00:58:28,154
She didn't get here by herself.
1042
00:58:28,571 --> 00:58:31,282
And it's really hard
for a lot of people
1043
00:58:31,282 --> 00:58:33,409
to understand
1044
00:58:33,409 --> 00:58:35,453
how hard he may have been on her
1045
00:58:35,453 --> 00:58:38,956
unless you've walked a mile
in her shoes.
1046
00:58:39,874 --> 00:58:41,417
What she did was wrong.
1047
00:58:41,834 --> 00:58:44,545
Regardless of whatever
she wants to say
1048
00:58:44,545 --> 00:58:45,796
or claim happened,
1049
00:58:45,796 --> 00:58:47,423
or what happened in the past
1050
00:58:47,423 --> 00:58:49,050
that drove her to this,
1051
00:58:49,050 --> 00:58:50,885
homicide is homicide.
1052
00:58:52,011 --> 00:58:54,055
I believe, obviously,
if it went to trial,
1053
00:58:54,055 --> 00:58:56,057
we would've probably learned
and been told
1054
00:58:56,057 --> 00:58:58,851
more about
possible mental health issues
1055
00:58:58,851 --> 00:59:01,312
that she or her family
suffered from.
1056
00:59:01,312 --> 00:59:02,980
Unfortunately,
those weren't discussed
1057
00:59:02,980 --> 00:59:04,982
because this case
didn't go to trial.
1058
00:59:13,032 --> 00:59:15,326
To the charge
of first degree murder
1059
00:59:15,326 --> 00:59:17,536
with a firearm,
a capital felony
1060
00:59:17,536 --> 00:59:20,664
which is punishable
by the death penalty.
1061
00:59:20,664 --> 00:59:22,083
How do you plead?
1062
00:59:22,083 --> 00:59:23,209
Guilty.
1063
00:59:23,209 --> 00:59:25,503
Do you admit that on or
about or between
1064
00:59:25,503 --> 00:59:27,254
April 5th, 2018,
1065
00:59:27,254 --> 00:59:29,173
and April 9th, 2018,
1066
00:59:29,173 --> 00:59:30,674
in Lee County, Florida,
1067
00:59:30,674 --> 00:59:33,344
you did unlawfully
form a premeditated design
1068
00:59:33,344 --> 00:59:35,596
to affect the death
of a human being,
1069
00:59:35,596 --> 00:59:37,515
Pamela Hutchinson?
Do you admit that?
1070
00:59:37,515 --> 00:59:38,849
Yes.
1071
00:59:38,849 --> 00:59:40,935
Pursuant to the terms
of the agreement, ma'am,
1072
00:59:40,935 --> 00:59:42,770
I will adjudicate you guilty.
1073
00:59:42,770 --> 00:59:44,855
I will sentence you
to the Florida Department
1074
00:59:44,855 --> 00:59:47,233
of Corrections
for a period of life.
1075
00:59:49,777 --> 00:59:52,905
I wish I would've
gone to trial
1076
00:59:53,572 --> 00:59:55,700
and said my stories,
1077
00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:57,910
and helped
with the doctors with me,
1078
00:59:57,910 --> 01:00:00,579
but, you know, my mother died
in a mental institution.
1079
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,499
I didn't want to die
in a mental institution.
1080
01:00:03,499 --> 01:00:05,209
And that was my biggest fear,
1081
01:00:05,209 --> 01:00:06,544
is if I had to go to trial,
1082
01:00:06,544 --> 01:00:08,212
because that's how I felt.
1083
01:00:08,212 --> 01:00:10,840
I felt mentally incompetent.
1084
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,175
I was in the middle
of a breakdown.
1085
01:00:13,592 --> 01:00:15,261
And I felt that...
1086
01:00:15,761 --> 01:00:18,639
that's what would happen,
I'd end up just like my mother.
1087
01:00:20,933 --> 01:00:24,186
I'll plead guilty,
that way I get a life sentence
1088
01:00:24,186 --> 01:00:25,896
and not the death penalty.
1089
01:00:26,897 --> 01:00:30,067
Well, being as I've been
really, really poor,
1090
01:00:30,443 --> 01:00:34,280
and couldn't even buy bread,
milk and cereal for my kids,
1091
01:00:34,613 --> 01:00:36,907
I can't see paying
1092
01:00:36,907 --> 01:00:38,909
thousands and hundreds
of dollars
1093
01:00:38,909 --> 01:00:41,746
to keep someone alive
in prison till they die.
1094
01:00:42,163 --> 01:00:44,707
I think she should've gotten
the death sentence.
1095
01:00:45,124 --> 01:00:46,375
I really do.
1096
01:00:48,210 --> 01:00:50,588
I'm not saying
I felt good.
1097
01:00:50,588 --> 01:00:52,048
I felt better.
1098
01:00:52,048 --> 01:00:54,467
It was the right thing
to happen.
1099
01:00:54,842 --> 01:00:57,136
You know, I liked Lois too,
you know.
1100
01:00:57,595 --> 01:00:59,263
I wasn't rooting for her,
1101
01:01:00,097 --> 01:01:04,852
but I don't think I just hated
her at that point, you know?
1102
01:01:05,811 --> 01:01:09,690
Disgusted, pissed off,
but not hate yet.
1103
01:01:09,690 --> 01:01:11,192
You know?
1104
01:01:12,693 --> 01:01:14,695
And so,
then she was extradited
1105
01:01:14,695 --> 01:01:17,323
from Florida to Minnesota
to face the charges
1106
01:01:17,323 --> 01:01:19,116
for the murder of her husband.
1107
01:01:21,619 --> 01:01:24,288
She agrees to another plea deal
1108
01:01:24,288 --> 01:01:26,290
where she'll be able to spend
1109
01:01:26,290 --> 01:01:27,833
her sentence, her life sentence
1110
01:01:27,833 --> 01:01:29,960
without any chance of parole
1111
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,755
in Minnesota so that she can be
closer to her children
1112
01:01:32,755 --> 01:01:35,132
and her grandchildren
who can visit her.
1113
01:01:37,009 --> 01:01:38,719
I heard
about Lois's sentencing
1114
01:01:38,719 --> 01:01:41,180
and I knew
it was something that
1115
01:01:41,180 --> 01:01:43,140
I was not gonna miss.
1116
01:01:43,140 --> 01:01:44,809
I wanted some answers
1117
01:01:44,809 --> 01:01:46,894
and I felt like
that might give them,
1118
01:01:46,894 --> 01:01:48,771
and I was really shocked
1119
01:01:48,771 --> 01:01:51,524
that it was held
in a high school.
1120
01:01:53,818 --> 01:01:55,361
I attended the hearing
1121
01:01:55,361 --> 01:01:57,446
in the high school auditorium,
1122
01:01:57,446 --> 01:02:00,241
because the Dodge County
courthouse
1123
01:02:00,241 --> 01:02:02,451
could only accommodate
seven people.
1124
01:02:02,910 --> 01:02:05,496
We got there
and we walked in.
1125
01:02:05,496 --> 01:02:09,208
There was media all around,
as you could imagine.
1126
01:02:09,208 --> 01:02:12,670
Once it started,
they walked Lois in.
1127
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,842
She's got her hands
shackled at the waist
1128
01:02:17,842 --> 01:02:19,844
and gets sworn in.
1129
01:02:21,262 --> 01:02:24,849
She recounts the details
of how she killed Dave
1130
01:02:24,849 --> 01:02:26,183
through a series
of questions
1131
01:02:26,183 --> 01:02:29,145
that her attorney
is asking her.
1132
01:02:35,026 --> 01:02:38,362
It was just one
of his normal, angry days.
1133
01:02:42,533 --> 01:02:45,411
We went to lacrosse,
and saw my grandson's game,
1134
01:02:45,411 --> 01:02:47,538
and he only let us stay there
for 15 minutes.
1135
01:02:47,538 --> 01:02:48,914
It was a two-hour drive
to get there
1136
01:02:48,914 --> 01:02:50,750
and we stayed for 15 minutes,
1137
01:02:50,750 --> 01:02:53,127
and drove back home, but...
1138
01:02:53,502 --> 01:02:54,795
I just know
1139
01:02:55,296 --> 01:02:58,507
that he was
in a really bad mood that day.
1140
01:03:00,301 --> 01:03:02,428
They argued
on the drive home.
1141
01:03:02,887 --> 01:03:04,722
According to Lois,
they continued to argue
1142
01:03:04,722 --> 01:03:06,098
when they got home.
1143
01:03:07,016 --> 01:03:10,144
He had a smoking closet.
A big, huge closet.
1144
01:03:14,815 --> 01:03:16,859
He was smoking and he had
a dresser where he kept
1145
01:03:16,859 --> 01:03:18,694
all his stuff,
and all I remember
1146
01:03:18,694 --> 01:03:21,781
is that he handed me a gun.
1147
01:03:22,490 --> 01:03:26,660
According to Lois,
Dave took a loaded .22 pistol
1148
01:03:26,660 --> 01:03:28,412
out of the drawer,
1149
01:03:28,412 --> 01:03:31,415
and said,
"Why don't you kill yourself
1150
01:03:31,415 --> 01:03:33,250
and get it right this time?"
1151
01:03:35,795 --> 01:03:37,296
He said, "Do it right."
1152
01:03:37,296 --> 01:03:39,090
And that's all I know
about that,
1153
01:03:39,090 --> 01:03:42,051
is I've never had a gun,
I don't shoot guns...
1154
01:03:42,468 --> 01:03:45,388
- He handed me a gun...
It was your dad's gun.
1155
01:03:45,388 --> 01:03:47,431
It was my dad's gun, yeah.
1156
01:03:47,431 --> 01:03:49,475
After my dad had died,
1157
01:03:49,809 --> 01:03:51,268
David got his guns.
1158
01:03:51,268 --> 01:03:53,771
It was my dad's gun
and he had it in his dresser.
1159
01:03:53,771 --> 01:03:55,564
I didn't know he had it
in his dresser.
1160
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:59,110
And she says that then
she looked at him,
1161
01:03:59,110 --> 01:04:01,821
pointed the gun at his heart,
and fired,
1162
01:04:01,821 --> 01:04:03,572
fully intending to kill him.
1163
01:04:08,994 --> 01:04:12,665
He probably wanted me
to kill myself that day.
1164
01:04:12,665 --> 01:04:15,042
And it just didn't happen
that way.
1165
01:04:16,335 --> 01:04:18,504
I don't know
that I believe that.
1166
01:04:18,879 --> 01:04:20,923
It seems hard to believe.
1167
01:04:21,298 --> 01:04:23,718
Especially with everything
that was going on
1168
01:04:23,718 --> 01:04:25,302
in her life that we found out,
1169
01:04:25,302 --> 01:04:27,930
through the mental illness,
the gambling.
1170
01:04:27,930 --> 01:04:29,473
Is this how it happened?
1171
01:04:29,473 --> 01:04:32,977
This is Lois's story that she
gave as testimony in court,
1172
01:04:32,977 --> 01:04:36,230
but is this how
it really happened? Um...
1173
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:38,357
What does your gut
tell you?
1174
01:04:38,983 --> 01:04:43,112
I am suspicious.
I don't believe that version.
1175
01:04:44,864 --> 01:04:46,240
First of all,
1176
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,993
that's-that's not
the response to that.
1177
01:04:48,993 --> 01:04:50,494
If you've got the gun
in your hand,
1178
01:04:50,494 --> 01:04:53,539
then, cool,
he's not gonna use it on you.
1179
01:04:53,914 --> 01:04:55,291
Once you had the gun,
1180
01:04:55,291 --> 01:04:57,001
I would think
you would burst into tears
1181
01:04:57,001 --> 01:04:58,669
and run out of the house.
1182
01:04:59,045 --> 01:05:01,422
And that's not what happened.
1183
01:05:08,179 --> 01:05:10,514
After that,
it was lots of blacking out,
1184
01:05:10,514 --> 01:05:11,974
lots of, uh...
1185
01:05:11,974 --> 01:05:14,560
I hate to say this, but I was...
1186
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,228
I'd wake up incontinent.
1187
01:05:16,228 --> 01:05:18,814
And I just started
losing track of time.
1188
01:05:23,694 --> 01:05:25,529
And then to drive.
1189
01:05:25,529 --> 01:05:28,741
I would drive and drive
for thousands of miles.
1190
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,120
I ended up in Florida.
1191
01:05:33,913 --> 01:05:36,082
Why do you think
you went to Florida?
1192
01:05:36,582 --> 01:05:38,000
Well, that's--
1193
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,877
You know,
the mind is a crazy thing.
1194
01:05:39,877 --> 01:05:41,545
I have no idea.
1195
01:05:44,298 --> 01:05:47,259
I was just in and out of...
1196
01:05:47,259 --> 01:05:49,720
real life, you know? It was...
1197
01:05:50,721 --> 01:05:53,557
a puzzle I still don't know
1198
01:05:53,557 --> 01:05:55,434
how to put together yet.
1199
01:06:07,238 --> 01:06:09,865
Then they had the reading
of the victim's statements.
1200
01:06:09,865 --> 01:06:12,410
Dave's mother is elderly,
1201
01:06:12,410 --> 01:06:14,870
could not be there,
but a representative read
1202
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:16,455
a statement on her behalf.
1203
01:06:17,748 --> 01:06:20,418
It says,
"When you killed David,
1204
01:06:20,418 --> 01:06:22,294
you took my heart."
1205
01:06:24,380 --> 01:06:26,966
This is a mother
speaking about her son.
1206
01:06:27,591 --> 01:06:30,720
"David was this family's ray
of sunshine.
1207
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,264
I will never forgive you."
1208
01:06:34,140 --> 01:06:36,642
At this point,
Lois makes her statement.
1209
01:06:36,642 --> 01:06:40,771
She says, "What I did
is an unpardonable crime.
1210
01:06:40,771 --> 01:06:42,565
Solitude is forever.
1211
01:06:42,565 --> 01:06:44,775
I feel I deserve this.
1212
01:06:44,775 --> 01:06:46,402
I will have no reprieve.
1213
01:06:46,402 --> 01:06:48,821
My life without David
is my sentence,
1214
01:06:48,821 --> 01:06:50,406
my penance.
1215
01:06:50,990 --> 01:06:53,743
I apologize to David's family
1216
01:06:53,743 --> 01:06:55,369
for taking him from you.
1217
01:06:55,369 --> 01:06:57,830
I apologize
to David's friends."
1218
01:07:00,124 --> 01:07:02,251
She apologized
to her family
1219
01:07:02,251 --> 01:07:03,794
for murdering her husband.
1220
01:07:03,794 --> 01:07:05,671
I never heard her apologize
1221
01:07:05,671 --> 01:07:07,423
to anybody on Pam's side.
1222
01:07:07,423 --> 01:07:10,092
The woman just had
no conscience whatsoever,
1223
01:07:10,092 --> 01:07:11,635
you know what I mean?
1224
01:07:11,635 --> 01:07:12,887
What was the first thing
1225
01:07:12,887 --> 01:07:14,263
when you came
out of the blackout,
1226
01:07:14,263 --> 01:07:17,141
when you realized what had
happened to Pamela?
1227
01:07:18,476 --> 01:07:22,188
I don't-- I don't know
for real what happened.
1228
01:07:22,188 --> 01:07:25,608
I know I wasn't running.
I wasn't hiding.
1229
01:07:32,239 --> 01:07:34,867
Unfortunately, when
you say you don't remember...
1230
01:07:34,867 --> 01:07:37,370
- Yeah.
- It feels like you're evading.
1231
01:07:40,498 --> 01:07:43,167
It was shown to me
that I took her life.
1232
01:07:43,167 --> 01:07:45,795
I still don't know the reason
why it happened.
1233
01:07:46,337 --> 01:07:49,924
But I do, I feel absolute
remorse and shame.
1234
01:07:49,924 --> 01:07:53,177
And I feel terrible
that I took her life,
1235
01:07:53,177 --> 01:07:55,012
and David's life.
1236
01:07:55,012 --> 01:07:57,890
I mean, for all...
1237
01:07:58,557 --> 01:08:00,434
their faults,
but Pamela especially,
1238
01:08:00,434 --> 01:08:04,188
because she reached out to me
to be my friend.
1239
01:08:04,772 --> 01:08:07,858
I just wish I would have been
in a better state of mind.
1240
01:08:07,858 --> 01:08:09,527
I could have been her friend.
1241
01:08:10,403 --> 01:08:13,781
She just caught up
in my-- in my breakdown.
1242
01:08:13,781 --> 01:08:15,825
And it was-- it was awful.
1243
01:08:15,825 --> 01:08:17,952
And I'm very sorry
for her family
1244
01:08:17,952 --> 01:08:19,620
that I took her life.
1245
01:08:20,788 --> 01:08:22,456
It wasn't intentional.
1246
01:08:22,957 --> 01:08:24,333
It, uh...
1247
01:08:34,885 --> 01:08:36,178
They found Dave
1248
01:08:36,178 --> 01:08:39,974
in the bathroom
of the Riess home.
1249
01:08:39,974 --> 01:08:44,437
Lois had opened a window
in the bathroom,
1250
01:08:44,437 --> 01:08:47,231
presumably due to the smell.
1251
01:08:48,482 --> 01:08:51,736
She then stole some money
1252
01:08:51,736 --> 01:08:53,320
from his account
1253
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:56,282
and got in her car and left.
1254
01:09:01,203 --> 01:09:03,372
Pamela Hutchinson was killed
in the bathroom
1255
01:09:03,372 --> 01:09:05,416
of her condominium.
1256
01:09:07,293 --> 01:09:10,254
The air conditioning,
because now we're in Florida,
1257
01:09:10,254 --> 01:09:12,256
was turned down.
1258
01:09:12,256 --> 01:09:14,800
She had put some towels
1259
01:09:15,134 --> 01:09:17,470
along the bottom
of the bathroom door,
1260
01:09:17,470 --> 01:09:21,766
again, possibly to prevent
the smell from escaping.
1261
01:09:22,183 --> 01:09:24,810
Lois stole a bunch of money,
1262
01:09:25,978 --> 01:09:28,939
and got in her car and left.
1263
01:09:31,692 --> 01:09:33,402
That's not a coincidence.
1264
01:09:33,402 --> 01:09:36,197
So any claims that she may make,
1265
01:09:36,197 --> 01:09:38,157
not remembering what happened,
1266
01:09:38,157 --> 01:09:40,201
blacking out
in the days that followed,
1267
01:09:40,201 --> 01:09:42,370
that she was having these-these
1268
01:09:42,370 --> 01:09:46,415
extreme mental breaks...
1269
01:09:47,416 --> 01:09:49,502
Boy, you sure knew what to do, though.
1270
01:09:49,502 --> 01:09:52,922
You know? And you
did the same thing again.
1271
01:09:52,922 --> 01:09:54,632
That doesn't hold water
to anybody
1272
01:09:54,632 --> 01:09:57,301
that's got an ounce of logic.
It just doesn't.
1273
01:09:57,301 --> 01:10:01,389
It is-it is a successful MO,
is what it is.
1274
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:11,190
I hope that Lois is sitting
in her jail cell
1275
01:10:11,190 --> 01:10:13,818
thinking about
how many lives she ruined.
1276
01:10:13,818 --> 01:10:16,112
Not only Pamela's family,
1277
01:10:16,737 --> 01:10:19,198
Dave's family,
her immediate family.
1278
01:10:26,497 --> 01:10:28,582
My sister Cindee...
1279
01:10:29,959 --> 01:10:33,212
she, uh, she was
in the throes of a breakdown,
1280
01:10:33,212 --> 01:10:36,048
and she took her own life
a couple years ago.
1281
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,514
I don't know too much
about the end of Cindee's life.
1282
01:10:44,765 --> 01:10:47,184
What I do know is that
1283
01:10:47,184 --> 01:10:49,353
her demons took over.
1284
01:10:51,605 --> 01:10:54,984
Jason, Cindee's son,
1285
01:10:54,984 --> 01:10:56,819
had a history
of violence himself,
1286
01:10:56,819 --> 01:10:59,030
and he had shown up drunk
1287
01:10:59,030 --> 01:11:01,198
at his mother's
and stepfather's house,
1288
01:11:01,198 --> 01:11:02,533
and they argued.
1289
01:11:02,533 --> 01:11:05,077
She had asked her son,
I believe, to leave,
1290
01:11:05,077 --> 01:11:07,204
and he didn't want to,
1291
01:11:07,204 --> 01:11:09,165
and he actually laid down
on the pavement
1292
01:11:09,165 --> 01:11:10,624
in their driveway, and said,
1293
01:11:10,624 --> 01:11:12,501
"What are you gonna do,
run over me?"
1294
01:11:12,501 --> 01:11:15,755
And so she ran over him
with her car.
1295
01:11:21,427 --> 01:11:23,054
So when the cop asked her,
1296
01:11:23,054 --> 01:11:24,555
"Did you mean to do that?"
1297
01:11:24,555 --> 01:11:27,600
She replied, stone cold sober,
"You betcha."
1298
01:11:33,898 --> 01:11:35,775
She knew
what she was facing.
1299
01:11:35,775 --> 01:11:39,987
And she knew
what Lois was going through.
1300
01:11:42,281 --> 01:11:45,951
And she didn't want to go
to prison
1301
01:11:45,951 --> 01:11:47,495
like Lois.
1302
01:11:49,372 --> 01:11:51,874
Lois felt responsible
for that.
1303
01:11:52,458 --> 01:11:54,210
She thinks Cindee probably
1304
01:11:54,210 --> 01:11:55,586
took a lot of grief
1305
01:11:55,586 --> 01:11:58,381
based on what happ--
what Lois did,
1306
01:11:58,381 --> 01:12:00,424
and couldn't handle it.
1307
01:12:01,592 --> 01:12:04,303
Cindee went up to Quarry Hill.
1308
01:12:04,762 --> 01:12:07,807
That was kind of a place
where we hung out a lot.
1309
01:12:09,517 --> 01:12:12,269
So I guess
she must have gone up there
1310
01:12:12,269 --> 01:12:14,939
as a place
that was familiar to her,
1311
01:12:14,939 --> 01:12:16,857
a place that she liked,
1312
01:12:16,857 --> 01:12:18,943
and hung herself.
1313
01:12:20,486 --> 01:12:21,862
If I wouldn't have done
these crimes,
1314
01:12:21,862 --> 01:12:23,739
I would have been out there
to help her.
1315
01:12:23,739 --> 01:12:26,117
Because that's what
I always did.
1316
01:12:26,117 --> 01:12:27,535
So I feel bad
1317
01:12:27,535 --> 01:12:30,371
that my sisters and brothers
are dying alone.
1318
01:12:30,996 --> 01:12:33,708
And I'm not there
because of what happened.
1319
01:12:41,006 --> 01:12:43,300
Dave and Lois
had three children.
1320
01:12:43,300 --> 01:12:45,386
The youngest one, Braden,
1321
01:12:45,386 --> 01:12:47,680
um, seemed like a good kid.
1322
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:50,683
He worked for me one summer.
He was a hard worker.
1323
01:12:51,976 --> 01:12:54,353
My focus was my children
my whole life
1324
01:12:54,353 --> 01:12:56,772
because they're
my best accomplishments.
1325
01:12:58,482 --> 01:12:59,775
My children,
1326
01:13:00,276 --> 01:13:01,819
they still love me.
1327
01:13:02,153 --> 01:13:04,739
And they-they know our lives.
1328
01:13:07,700 --> 01:13:08,868
Um...
1329
01:13:09,535 --> 01:13:12,538
My son Braden
died a year ago today.
1330
01:13:13,539 --> 01:13:16,125
And he had severe depression
1331
01:13:16,125 --> 01:13:18,210
and mental health issues.
1332
01:13:21,172 --> 01:13:23,007
I wish he would have got help.
1333
01:13:31,891 --> 01:13:34,185
I know for a while
it was meth,
1334
01:13:34,185 --> 01:13:37,188
and then, um,
I also know that it had
1335
01:13:37,188 --> 01:13:39,065
graduated into heroin.
1336
01:13:41,692 --> 01:13:43,194
Braden struggled
with addiction
1337
01:13:43,194 --> 01:13:44,653
before this took place,
1338
01:13:44,653 --> 01:13:47,448
but then you throw this
in the middle of it...
1339
01:13:55,331 --> 01:13:57,249
He was ready
to be done.
1340
01:13:59,001 --> 01:14:01,212
He just needed
to get out of the game.
1341
01:14:03,672 --> 01:14:07,676
Then we found out that he
1342
01:14:07,676 --> 01:14:10,721
was found deceased in his truck
1343
01:14:10,721 --> 01:14:12,890
in his friend's driveway.
1344
01:14:14,225 --> 01:14:16,644
And it was ruled an overdose.
1345
01:14:19,063 --> 01:14:21,982
He died shortly
after I started visiting her,
1346
01:14:21,982 --> 01:14:24,527
so she's really been struggling
with that.
1347
01:14:24,944 --> 01:14:28,406
She knows that what she did
added a lot
1348
01:14:28,406 --> 01:14:30,574
of pain and suffering,
1349
01:14:30,574 --> 01:14:33,452
and trauma,
and you name it,
1350
01:14:33,452 --> 01:14:35,830
on her kids' plates.
1351
01:14:38,207 --> 01:14:40,584
What would he say to you
if he were here today,
1352
01:14:40,584 --> 01:14:41,961
about you doing this?
1353
01:14:41,961 --> 01:14:44,171
He would be proud of me.
1354
01:14:45,673 --> 01:14:47,800
I've never given an interview...
1355
01:14:49,301 --> 01:14:52,847
because I have such shame
and regret for what I did.
1356
01:14:53,639 --> 01:14:55,641
And that's why I didn't fight,
1357
01:14:55,641 --> 01:14:57,935
because when they showed me
what I did,
1358
01:14:58,602 --> 01:15:00,062
you have to pay
for what you did.
1359
01:15:00,062 --> 01:15:03,149
I took their lives,
but Braden would be proud of me.
1360
01:15:12,324 --> 01:15:15,536
I try to understand
why people do what they do,
1361
01:15:15,536 --> 01:15:18,122
because of what I myself
have gone through
1362
01:15:18,122 --> 01:15:19,874
with a lot of abuse.
1363
01:15:20,916 --> 01:15:23,753
I knew that I had been abused
1364
01:15:23,753 --> 01:15:25,629
and I went in for counseling,
1365
01:15:25,629 --> 01:15:28,966
I went to sessions,
I went to retreats,
1366
01:15:28,966 --> 01:15:30,426
I read books.
1367
01:15:30,426 --> 01:15:33,179
I really dug into my mind
1368
01:15:33,179 --> 01:15:34,764
and my heart
1369
01:15:35,222 --> 01:15:37,808
to try to dig out the poison
1370
01:15:37,808 --> 01:15:39,727
that abuse
1371
01:15:40,519 --> 01:15:42,355
makes you feel.
1372
01:15:42,980 --> 01:15:45,649
We are all intelligent enough
to get help.
1373
01:15:47,401 --> 01:15:49,695
We all have to live
with what we do.
1374
01:15:56,660 --> 01:16:00,581
I went and visited her
in August of 2021,
1375
01:16:00,581 --> 01:16:01,832
I think it was.
1376
01:16:01,832 --> 01:16:03,542
So I hadn't seen her
in four years,
1377
01:16:03,542 --> 01:16:05,127
and she gave me
a huge, long hug.
1378
01:16:05,127 --> 01:16:06,921
She didn't want to let go.
It was like...
1379
01:16:06,921 --> 01:16:09,673
...almost uncomfortable because
1380
01:16:09,673 --> 01:16:12,259
she said that I was
the first human contact
1381
01:16:12,259 --> 01:16:13,886
she had had in four years.
1382
01:16:13,886 --> 01:16:16,680
So that was kind of surprising
to me.
1383
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,350
And then she talked,
we had an hour,
1384
01:16:19,350 --> 01:16:20,976
and she talked the whole time.
1385
01:16:20,976 --> 01:16:24,480
And she told me all about
what led up to the...
1386
01:16:24,480 --> 01:16:26,315
shooting of Dave.
1387
01:16:27,108 --> 01:16:29,276
- And, uh...
Did you talk about
1388
01:16:29,276 --> 01:16:30,528
what happened in Florida?
1389
01:16:30,528 --> 01:16:33,989
No, no,
we've never talked about that.
1390
01:16:35,700 --> 01:16:38,452
It came up and she just
put her head in her hands.
1391
01:16:38,452 --> 01:16:40,329
She just can't...
1392
01:16:40,788 --> 01:16:42,790
She doesn't seem to want to...
1393
01:16:43,624 --> 01:16:46,168
be able to talk about it
and I didn't push it.
1394
01:16:46,919 --> 01:16:49,046
Looking sort of ten years
down the road,
1395
01:16:49,046 --> 01:16:51,257
do you think you and Lois
will still be close?
1396
01:16:51,257 --> 01:16:53,509
Oh, yeah, definitely.
1397
01:16:53,926 --> 01:16:58,055
Yeah, because I think a lot
of people have abandoned her.
1398
01:16:58,055 --> 01:17:02,101
Might just be a bridge too far
for most people.
1399
01:17:02,685 --> 01:17:04,353
But why not for you?
1400
01:17:04,353 --> 01:17:06,397
Well, 'cause...
1401
01:17:10,067 --> 01:17:11,902
I don't know.
1402
01:17:12,361 --> 01:17:13,946
I mean...
1403
01:17:14,780 --> 01:17:16,741
I don't know, probably,
1404
01:17:17,783 --> 01:17:19,660
you know, my dad was a minister
1405
01:17:19,660 --> 01:17:22,288
and he visited people in prison.
1406
01:17:28,085 --> 01:17:30,838
Norma, what do you think
about forgiveness?
1407
01:17:30,838 --> 01:17:33,507
That doesn't help us, does it?
1408
01:17:33,883 --> 01:17:36,343
There's a lot of scriptures
that admonish us
1409
01:17:36,343 --> 01:17:39,013
not to be judgmental,
1410
01:17:40,139 --> 01:17:41,307
and, uh...
1411
01:17:42,224 --> 01:17:43,392
that's hard.
1412
01:17:44,602 --> 01:17:46,562
- All I do is I...
1413
01:17:46,562 --> 01:17:48,689
pray for her every night.
1414
01:17:49,774 --> 01:17:51,734
What do you say
when you pray for her?
1415
01:17:52,193 --> 01:17:55,821
That she can come
to some peace
1416
01:17:55,821 --> 01:17:58,115
of her acceptance
1417
01:17:58,115 --> 01:17:59,492
of why she did it.
1418
01:18:00,284 --> 01:18:02,995
Is anybody gonna eat those
for dessert?
1419
01:18:02,995 --> 01:18:03,996
Yes.
1420
01:18:18,719 --> 01:18:20,679
This story has
1421
01:18:20,679 --> 01:18:23,974
a load of shame to it.
1422
01:18:23,974 --> 01:18:27,019
It's full of shame and hurt.
1423
01:18:27,478 --> 01:18:29,188
And I think it continues.
1424
01:18:29,730 --> 01:18:32,316
This town has shame
1425
01:18:32,316 --> 01:18:33,776
about what happened.
1426
01:18:34,235 --> 01:18:37,488
Shame is a powerful,
powerful emotion.
1427
01:18:37,488 --> 01:18:39,699
It makes you hide,
it makes you lie,
1428
01:18:39,699 --> 01:18:42,493
it makes you steal,
and the only way to fix it
1429
01:18:42,493 --> 01:18:44,370
is to face it.
1430
01:18:45,204 --> 01:18:47,540
Lois was very
well-known around the town.
1431
01:18:47,540 --> 01:18:49,333
She had a lot of friends.
1432
01:18:49,333 --> 01:18:52,670
She did day care for a lot
of people in Blooming Prairie.
1433
01:18:52,670 --> 01:18:55,256
And after this all happened,
1434
01:18:55,256 --> 01:18:57,091
she was just a monster.
1435
01:18:57,091 --> 01:19:00,177
And I may ruffle some feathers,
but I feel like that is
1436
01:19:00,177 --> 01:19:05,307
what a lot of my family,
you know, is doing.
1437
01:19:06,058 --> 01:19:07,727
Because, with them,
1438
01:19:07,727 --> 01:19:09,270
they're still thinking that
1439
01:19:09,270 --> 01:19:11,689
David is the same old
jolly David
1440
01:19:11,689 --> 01:19:13,733
that he's always been.
1441
01:19:13,733 --> 01:19:15,985
But just because he was
that way with them,
1442
01:19:15,985 --> 01:19:18,904
I know, doesn't mean that
that's how he was
1443
01:19:18,904 --> 01:19:20,906
at home with his wife.
1444
01:19:22,199 --> 01:19:24,076
The fact that people speak
1445
01:19:24,076 --> 01:19:26,537
and continue
to speak so highly of Dave,
1446
01:19:26,537 --> 01:19:28,956
they don't wanna talk
ill of him.
1447
01:19:30,291 --> 01:19:34,295
If he was abusive,
that's a really shitty thing.
1448
01:19:34,712 --> 01:19:35,963
They don't dare say it,
1449
01:19:35,963 --> 01:19:39,467
but you can say it
and still-- and think that
1450
01:19:39,467 --> 01:19:42,428
he didn't deserve to die because
of it, for heaven's sake.
1451
01:19:43,929 --> 01:19:45,723
We don't want to be disloyal,
1452
01:19:45,723 --> 01:19:47,058
perhaps, to Dave's memory.
1453
01:19:47,058 --> 01:19:49,393
We don't want
to provide excuses
1454
01:19:49,393 --> 01:19:51,520
for Lois's behavior.
1455
01:19:51,896 --> 01:19:53,522
I don't know. It's a reluctance
1456
01:19:53,522 --> 01:19:55,483
all the way around
to look inside.
1457
01:20:17,671 --> 01:20:19,799
I think about Pam a lot,
1458
01:20:20,216 --> 01:20:22,718
but I got a lot of Pam pictures
that I just
1459
01:20:22,718 --> 01:20:25,304
access quite a bit.
1460
01:20:26,931 --> 01:20:28,641
I think Pam
1461
01:20:28,641 --> 01:20:31,018
would like to be remembered
1462
01:20:31,018 --> 01:20:34,188
as a free spirit
and her own woman.
1463
01:20:37,650 --> 01:20:39,151
I think she finally proved
1464
01:20:39,151 --> 01:20:41,862
that she could make it
on her own.
1465
01:20:47,159 --> 01:20:49,787
Okay, here-- this was her last
1466
01:20:49,787 --> 01:20:53,165
trip to Mexico
just a few months before.
1467
01:20:54,917 --> 01:20:58,170
It says, "Was not supposed
to be goodbye."
1468
01:21:00,965 --> 01:21:04,927
"Until we meet again, my BFF."