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The following programme contains
strong language, scenes of a

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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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sexual nature, and scenes which some
viewers may find distressing.

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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(BIRDSONG)

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(TRAFFIC AMBIENCE)

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(WHITE NOISE)

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Microsoft launched a new artificial
intelligence powered chatbot

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to talk with you on Twitter.

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Artificial intelligence chatbot
named Tay was designed to respond

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to questions and conversations
on Twitter

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with the personality
of a teenage girl.

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MAX: In 2016, Microsoft launched
this chatbot called Tay.

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The idea was that by chatting
with users on Twitter,

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it would learn
what human conversation is like.

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Was based on machine learning,

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which is a kind of artificial
intelligence.

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What it was doing was learning

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what is the sequence of words,
the specific types of sentiment

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and emotions that are going to
be most effective on social media?

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Within 24 hours, this spot had
become like an alt-right pro-Trump
Nazi.

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Humans working for Microsoft
had to intervene when Tay,

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their chatty I bot, started tweeting
some pretty bad Hitler stuff.

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She took on a rather
offensive racist tone,

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a lot of messages about genocide
and the Holocaust.

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Microsoft immediately started
hitting delete on her comments.

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Part of that was bad actors
deliberately training it

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by feeding it extreme content.

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But mostly the Tay bot
was just reproducing how

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people on social media
were interacting.

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Nobody gives a damn about men.

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This is smoking gun
1 in 85 trillion quadrillion.

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I mean, this, this...

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We are living in
an attention economy.

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People are encouraged and emboldened
to become more outrageous,

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more characterful, more dramatic,
more offensive than ever.

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They're skanks. (LAUGHS)

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I mean, that's what they
fucking are. They're skanks.

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Deport and step up support, OK?
Alright?

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MAX: Because of the way
that social media works,

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it can be just someone
from total obscurity.

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And they will get lifted up
by these platforms,

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because it is what the systems want,
and they know how to cultivate that.

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Strap on an AK 47
and gun down innocent people.

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And it's exactly what
happened with Andrew Tate.

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I believe that a man
should be in charge.

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I believe your woman should obey you.

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HARRIET: The mainstream media start
to pay attention, and you see

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characters rise up who might not
have become famous otherwise.

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One of the most infamous men
in the world, Andrew Tate's

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misogynistic tirades have been
viewed billions of times online.

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Any man who's relatively capable
as a man will always be able

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to whoop your ass, rape you,
strangle you, kill you.

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Anything he wants to do.

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BRIANNA: We probably should have
seen this coming.

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A really good question to ask
yourself as an engineer is how

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can the thing you built be used by
a really, really terrible person?

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It's not something
we ask ourselves very often.

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MATTHEW: You have unbelievable
corporate knowledge about what

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their products are doing
in complete total disregard

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and elevation of profits
over public safety.

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A. TATE: Getting the girl,

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fucking the girl is the
first 10% of the game.

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JOE: There's complicity
all over the place.

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Social media platforms have
to bear a huge responsibility

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for allowing that content to reach
billions of people around the world.

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Then we have to ask
what about wider society?

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Why is it that young men are
finding a voice in Andrew Tate?

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Why are we not having
those conversations

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and getting those things right?

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The big question, I guess, is
who's to blame for Andrew Tate?

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(TENSE MUSIC)

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So as you were saying,
you're blowing up on the internet.

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I've conquered all of the internet.
All of the internet.It's mine.

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(TYRES SQUEALING)

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MAX: Someone like Andrew Tate
is not an accident.

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He doesn't just happen.

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CROWD: Fuck Instagram!

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A. TATE: Fuck Instagram!

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If you want to understand where he
comes from, you have to understand

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how these social media platforms
were first built,

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why they were built that way,
and what they were designed to do.

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(ELECTRONIC CRACKLING)

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Social media first goes wide
in the early mid 2000s,

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and it's people who,
for whatever reason,

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are looking to socialise
through their computer.

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It's undergraduates.
It's a lot of young men.

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It's a lot of adolescent boys.

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All I want is a computer.
Now hold on, Dad.

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It's just $849 for all of this.

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Parents tend to spend more
on boys than they do on girls.

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So computer makers,

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video game manufacturers
choose to market to boys.

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(CRASHING SOUNDS)

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These hyper masculine
male characters.

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Well, how could you let that happen?

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MAX: You're going to
go save the princess.

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And it is something that
is like super traditional.

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MAN: (IN GAME) Give me some sugar.
Shake it baby.

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Men are supposed to be strong
and masculine and dominant,

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and women are supposed
to be submissive.

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And that's the content
that dominates.

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It's a lot of young men who were
looking for a place in the world,

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and were trying to figure out
who they were and how they fit in.

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That gets built into the very
early social platforms which form

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the basis of internet culture.

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So by the time the rest of us join,

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that is what- is what
it means to be online.

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(ELECTRONIC CHIRPING)

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WOMAN: What is the Facebook exactly?

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It's an online directory
that connects people

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through universities and colleges
through their social networks there.

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REPORTER: On college campuses,
it's called the Facebook trance.

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To everyone else, it's spending too
much time in front of your computer.

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MAX: The way the platforms
used to operate,

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you would have a profile page and
you would look at your profile page,

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you would look at other people's
profile pages and they were, um,

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pretty boring.

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(MOUSE CLICKING)

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Then Facebook introduced
the News Feed.

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We believe that the best
personalised newspaper

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should have a broad
diversity of content.

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And here is the new design.

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MAX: Instead of just going to
people's individual profile pages,

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there was going to be
one centralised home page

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that each user would have,

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and it would show you
all of the activity

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from all of your friends
in the network.

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Anytime they joined a group,

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they posted something that
would show up on this feed.

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REPORTER: It's designed for the
way that we're all sharing today,

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and the trends that
we see going forward.

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MAX: Almost immediately
after launching the News Feed,

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it filled with these groups
expressing outrage about it.

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Groups called Against News Feed,

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I Hate Facebook, I Hate News Feed,

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Mark Zuckerberg Turn Off News feed.

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And every time someone
joins one of these groups,

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it pushes it all over again
to everyone else's news feeds.

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More and more users
started joining these groups,

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maybe not even because
they felt that rage,

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but just because they see
everyone else joining it.

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All of a sudden, user time
exploded like 600 and 700% growth.

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Mark Zuckerberg looked at this and
he looked at the engagement numbers,

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how much more time people
were spending on Facebook,

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ironically expressing
outrage at Facebook.

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And he said, this is it.
This is the gold mine.

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And he was absolutely right.

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These social media platforms
that copied Facebook survived.

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Every other social network died out,

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because this was the new way that
social media was going to operate.

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As a young guy growing up,

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every young boy wanted to be a
strong, tough, He-Man character.

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And that was working out,
looking good on the TV,

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flexing, pumping weights
and fighting.

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To us, that was like
the ultimate man.

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Andrew was a quiet, tall kid.
He was even shy.

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Honestly, I didn't
think a lot of him.

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(INDISTINCT ARENA CHATTER)

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At first glance, a lot of the
guys look and size everyone up

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and we thought, he looks soft,
you're going to beat him.

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He was about 17/18
and he was fighting grown men.

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He had a lot of balls.

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When it's your first fight and
it's gruelling, you're in a cage,

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it's locked.

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Thousand people screaming,
smoky atmosphere.

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Beers, people are a bit drunk.

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Everyone's swearing.
"Get him up. Knock him out."

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Scary.

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And it was hard fight.

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Andrew stuck in there.

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(CHEERING, JEERING)

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Some people can not just function

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9 to 5 office jobs,
get drunk at the weekends.

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That is not for some individuals
and it's not for me.

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So I have to find something which
keeps me physically tired enough

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to stop me going AWOL.

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And mentally tired enough.
And I've chosen fighting.

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I think the only thing
that could stop me fighting

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is if I had enough money to
constantly entertain myself.

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Unless I'm a billionaire, I need
something that keeps me focused and

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keeps me occupied in life because I'm
not built to live a normal existence.

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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

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I knew he was good.
I knew it was making waves.

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You know, there weren't many
people in England that, sort of,

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became an international
level fighter.

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So, yeah, you sort of definitely
sort of, yeah, he was going places.

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I think it's his overall character,
fighting style.

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I think yeah, he's very different.

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Hello, this is Andrew Tate.

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I am the ISKA kick-boxing
world champion,

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ISKA's world's most amazing person,
Enfusion finalist.

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Funny, tall, muscly,
all around great guy.

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Everyone loves me.

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When I started my kickboxing brand,
I was living with fighters.

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And Andrew was, sort of,
the big name on the circuit.

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Because I'm one of the best
kickboxers in the world,

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arguably the best,
especially in my own mind,

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I would personally say that
I'm the best kickboxer ever,

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Sidekick sponsor me...
I think he likes the sponsorships,

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so it's a way of another reason
he could talk about himself.

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And when I'm fighting, or
when I'm training, etcetera,

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I use the equipment, I beat
everyone up and everyone thinks,

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"Wow, Andrew's amazing, so we
need to try the same equipment."

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I think he enjoyed, sort of
publicising himself, market himself.

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00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,320
Yeah, he just wanted to be heard
and I think he enjoyed it.

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00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,440
This is a magazine with me
on the front being amazing,

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because I'm the best
kickboxer in the world.

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00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,360
He constantly just tries
to rub people up, you know,

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00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,600
I wanted that character
where a lot of other brands

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probably wouldn't have
touched an Andrew Tate,

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00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,360
because I think it
could've been risky.

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00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,800
This is a world title,

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00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,040
and this means that I am the
best kickboxer in the world.

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00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,680
Now, because I'm so fucking cool,

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00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,840
I actually have two world
titles at two different weights.

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00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,920
So while you're best
in the world at nothing,

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00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,960
you're not even the best
in your town or anything,

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00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,640
I'm the best in the world.
Twice.

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00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:13,960
Andrew just wanted fame and fortune.
I think that's all he wanted.

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00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,320
You know, we all love money,

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00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:18,920
you know, and I think Andrew
wanted to just get rich.

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00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,720
You know, some of his fights he
might have been making five, ten

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thousand pounds, maybe a bit more.

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00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,640
You can only be fighting
a few times a year.

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00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,560
He was literally fighting to earn.

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00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,400
You can't fight forever, you know?

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00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,880
Hello, I'm Andrew "King Cobra" Tate.

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00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,600
As you know,
I'm sponsored by Sidekick.

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I am the four times...

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Andrew started using
social media just for fun.

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00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,200
Two...

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00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,240
You know, I think he realised
he likes to sort of engaging,

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00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,000
people comment on it
and publicity, you know?

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00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,240
Yeah, but everyone liked the likes
back in them days, didn't they?

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00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:59,280
I find him funny, you know?
I don't think he had that many fans.

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I know it seems like
a trivial thing to you,

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00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,240
as the world's most gorgeous man,
these things matter.

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00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,920
I don't know if I've upped my beauty,
if that's possible,

240
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,280
or slightly reduced my beauty
with my trampy beard.

241
00:13:16,328 --> 00:13:20,600
(ELECTRONIC CHIRPING)

242
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,680
Around 2012, these social platforms
start undergoing this arms race for

243
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,760
who can get the most attention.

244
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,800
The owners of a small tech company
this morning are waking up

245
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,280
a billion dollars richer
than they were yesterday.

246
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,080
That's how much Facebook
is paying for Instagram.

247
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:43,120
Have you heard of it?

248
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,800
And that billion dollar price
tag puts it in a category that

249
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,800
makes it more valuable right
now than the New York Times,

250
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,000
Barnes and Noble.

251
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,640
Some of these companies that
we know much better as far...

252
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:55,440
The amount of human
attention is finite.

253
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,440
There are only so many
people in the world.

254
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,480
We only have so many
minutes in the day.

255
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,840
The social media companies,
they're competing against each other

256
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,880
for incremental seconds
and minutes of our attention.

257
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,240
They do it through the development
of these algorithms.

258
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,560
They start hiring up
all of the leading minds

259
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,720
and engineers
in artificial intelligence.

260
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,920
I'm Thomas Dimson.
I joined Instagram very early on.

261
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,040
There's like 15 engineers
responsible for 150 million people.

262
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,920
It's a product that is
growing out of control.

263
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,400
I introduced the Instagram
algorithm to change a platform

264
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,840
of hundreds of millions of people
from a completely chronological feed

265
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,920
to something where
the platform controls

266
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:41,800
the distribution of content.

267
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,400
What is an algorithm?

268
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,160
Algorithm, in computer science,
means a programme.

269
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,640
A programme that executes
something, basically,

270
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,920
a method of doing something,
a recipe.

271
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,320
In the context of social media,

272
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,560
the algorithms distribute
content on the network.

273
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,600
So I make a post, where does it go?
Who sees it?

274
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,640
It's like something completely
out of your control,

275
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,400
completely out of
your understanding.

276
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,600
Only the platform can
really understand it.

277
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,040
Both Twitter and Instagram
started with an algorithm

278
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,160
for distributing content,
but a very simple one.

279
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,320
Goes to your friends in the
order in which it was posted.

280
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,600
(TWITTER NOTIFICATION WHISTLE)

281
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,200
If you tweet something,
your friend follows you,

282
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,960
The moment you tweet, it's going
to be at the top of their feed.

283
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,800
What happens over time in social
media is that you start to get

284
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,840
a lot of non-friends
on these platforms.

285
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,200
Influencers, celebrities,
all this sort of stuff.

286
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:42,800
What is their incentive?

287
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,440
Their incentive is to post
all the time, because every

288
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,600
one of their followers will see
their post at the top of their feed.

289
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,200
They want as many people to
see their content as possible.

290
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,920
Everyone's trying
to game the system.

291
00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,600
(ELECTRONIC CHIRPING)

292
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,000
It's making people have a bad
experience on the platform.

293
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,120
So you really have to take control
over distribution, as a platform.

294
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,280
It's like a must.

295
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,440
That's where machine learning
comes in. That's what it does.

296
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,440
It looks at content, looks at
behaviour, it looks at whatever,

297
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,160
and then makes a decision.

298
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,040
What you're modelling is a human.

299
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,320
Human psychology.
What do people respond to?

300
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,080
Over time, they get more
and more machine learned,

301
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:27,880
more and more machine learned.

302
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,800
So a person has less
and less control.

303
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,000
The platform has more
and more control.

304
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,560
We start controlling what you see.

305
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,840
The problem is what
people think they want

306
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,600
versus what people respond to
is different.

307
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,840
It's surprising how much you
can predict people's behaviour

308
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,840
that's going to be
a tabloid every time.

309
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,360
A. TATE: One... Two...

310
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,040
(BABY FUSSING)

311
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,599
MAN: Andrew! Come here, boy.

312
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,400
You're never too big for Daddy.

313
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,599
You come here to Daddy, boy.

314
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,200
I love my baby!

315
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,560
WOMAN:
You were so happy to be a daddy.

316
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,359
A. TATE: I was- I was
raised for competence,

317
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,800
and I was raised for excellence.
Come here, dude.

318
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,120
I'm named after my dad
with the same name,

319
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,840
Emory Andrew Tate.

320
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,200
He was a super unique individual,
it's hard for me to even explain.

321
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,640
You have to imagine a big,
physically dominating, dangerous guy

322
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,640
who's a chess genius.

323
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,280
When you're wired like he is,
everyone is a moron.

324
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,360
My father certainly had rage.

325
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,760
He got diagnosed with narcissistic
personality disorder,

326
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,800
and I do believe he had it.

327
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,720
He's also quite a morbid man.

328
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,040
He said,
"Are you prepared for my death?"

329
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,920
We were just like, "What?"

330
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,640
Like, he'd talk about dying,

331
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,560
he'd talk about me
being the oldest son,

332
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,400
he'd talk about me
having to carry the torch.

333
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,960
He's talking about my
responsibilities and duties.

334
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,040
He's talking about the fact
that I need to evolve

335
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,600
and be a better version of him.
He talked about these things a lot.

336
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,800
I knew I couldn't just
be some normal guy.

337
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:30,120
One...

338
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,400
COMMENTATOR: It's only something
about Andrew Tate.

339
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,800
Andrew Tate, arrogant.
He's brash. He's bold.

340
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,320
He knows what to expect.

341
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,600
Before influencer culture,
we had reality TV culture,

342
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,040
and that was how ordinary,
everyday people might seek fame.

343
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,760
By 2016,

344
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,000
reality TV was almost
a clear pathway to stardom.

345
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,560
I'm Andrew Tate, I'm 29 years old

346
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,880
and I'm a four times
kickboxing world champion.

347
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,520
I see myself as smarter than average.

348
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:03,760
I was a chess champion from a very
young age, from the age of three.

349
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,080
Everyone wants to be famous.

350
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,000
Everyone thinks that becomes
money and stuff.

351
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,480
He wanted to be famous.
He wants to be a celebrity.

352
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,360
Sometimes you're shocked
by what you see.

353
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:12,840
What people do to become famous.

354
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,880
MAN: You didn't even
tell us your fucking name!

355
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,400
A. TATE: I have a reason.

356
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,560
So why don't you
sit down and shut up?

357
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,560
Alright, if that's
how you want to be...

358
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,640
Get a fucking glove on
and go do the dishes, mate.

359
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,680
Make yourself useful in
this house or something.

360
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,560
If that's how you wanna be
it's your decision.

361
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,760
You haven't even said your name!
My name's Andrew.

362
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,520
To get chosen for Big Brother,
for our series in 2016,

363
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,760
88,000 people applied. 88,000.

364
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,240
So by the time you get
to actually get on Big Brother,

365
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:42,200
It means a lot, regardless of
whether they admit that or not.

366
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,640
(ARGUING OVER EACH OTHER)

367
00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,440
Andrew caused absolute mayhem.

368
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,960
He fitted the villain role,
the headstrong role,

369
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,640
the role, "I really don't care what
you feel like or how you think."

370
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,400
Genuinely, eight of you
are the pissed off me.

371
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,600
I'm telling you,
I'm telling you what I've seen.

372
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,680
From what I've seen, eight of you...

373
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,800
Snakes, you know, snakes.
Saying to someone...

374
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,520
I thought that a lot of viewers
would watch him and either love him

375
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,080
or hate him, but that didn't really
matter once they were speaking about
him.

376
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:16,000
The certain things that I've
seen indicate a certain thing.

377
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,440
I know they're probably not true.
That's why I've said it.

378
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,240
That's why I've said it.
(ARGUING OVER EACH OTHER)

379
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,600
MAN: Chill out, man.
WOMAN: Yeah, it does...

380
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,960
I don't care if nobody
down there likes me.

381
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,480
I'm sure, by now, everyone's already
pre-decided they don't like me,

382
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,320
and that's fine.
I know where I genuinely am.

383
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:35,560
So I know I'm the most intelligent
person in this house.

384
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,360
I know the most capable person
in this house. Fact.

385
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,680
WOMAN:
'It's just, it's so hard for us

386
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,200
just for you to come
in here and say that.'

387
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,160
I was instructed to instil fear
and paranoia.

388
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,000
I was here five minutes.

389
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,600
Fair enough. I took a bullet
because I'm a man and I'm not afraid.

390
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,440
'I paid attention to who tried
to physically intimidate me

391
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,800
and who didn't. Who was...'

392
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,560
I mean, it's all very
dramatic, isn't it?.

393
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,400
I'm going to become the
most hated man in the world.

394
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,960
Makes sense, let's go.

395
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,560
(LAUGHS) He is psychic!

396
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,440
Wow!

397
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,320
Oh my God. (LAUGHS)

398
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,920
(SOFTLY) Fucking hell!

399
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,680
He didn't spend a lot of
time in the house at all.

400
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,560
And about 12 days into the show,

401
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,960
Big brother spoke on the Tannoy,
like, intercom speakers.

402
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,840
TANNOY: 'This is Big Brother.

403
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,640
Due to events in the outside world,

404
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,160
Andrew has had to leave
the Big Brother house.'

405
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,240
(GASPING)

406
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,080
'His suitcases are in the storeroom.

407
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,160
Would housemates collect them,
pack up his belongings

408
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,240
and return the cases to the
storeroom as soon as possible?'

409
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,480
That was it.

410
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,680
Oh my God, that's the first one out!

411
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,360
First time I came
across him was 2016

412
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,560
when he got kicked off
Big Brother.

413
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,560
There was a kind of flurry of
newspaper articles about what

414
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,040
seemed to be this relatively
unsavoury character

415
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,840
engaging in violence against women.

416
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,960
One has a video that showed him
hitting a woman.

417
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,160
I didn't say the word "listen".
Did I say "listen"?

418
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,840
Did I say listen?
WOMAN: No.

419
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,240
Look at the camera.
Did I say "listen"?No!

420
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,560
Did I say (BLEEP) to you?
Did I say it?(SOBS) No!

421
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,680
Did I say it? (BELT CRACKS)

422
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,520
At the time, he was just one of
many stories of a reality TV star

423
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,280
doing something awful.

424
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:48,800
Why are you getting hit?

425
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,880
He offered a defence that many men
who engage in violence against women

426
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,160
seem to offer.
This was a consensual sexual act.

427
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,840
Yeah, it's just what we used to do.
It was just pure game.

428
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,200
He's a great guy.
He would never hurt anyone.

429
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,240
That was the first time that he
popped onto a kind of national

430
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,520
radar in the UK,

431
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,600
because it was widely
covered by the newspapers.

432
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,400
(OMINOUS MUSIC)

433
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,360
Tate really does subscribe to
the idea that there is no such

434
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:17,920
thing as bad publicity.

435
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,320
He courts controversy.

436
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,840
He was already tapping into
his awareness that provocation

437
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,120
and outrage
could be a passport to fame.

438
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,680
This is the persona
that he's nurturing.

439
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,440
One that would eventually benefit
him greatly in the world of social
media.

440
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:40,960
(ELECTRONIC CHIRPING)

441
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,840
You think of the internet
as forward looking, right?

442
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,640
You wouldn't think that the thing
that would come out of this would

443
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,160
be this super traditionalist,
regressive,

444
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,360
backward looking sense of gender.

445
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,280
But the thing that, in a lot
of ways, drives social media

446
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,760
is niche communities and subcultures
organised around misogyny,

447
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,920
around conspiracy theories,
around hatred and fear of the other.

448
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,280
In 2014, a lot of these groups
started to come together into

449
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,000
its first big expression,

450
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,320
and that is the thing that
we ended up calling GamerGate.

451
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,560
GamerGate.

452
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,680
It's a story about sexism
in the world of video gaming,

453
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,880
with all the elements
of a Hollywood script.

454
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,520
An online hate mob
referred to as GamerGate.

455
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:40,400
This conspiracy theory, GamerGate,
said that video game developers

456
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,720
and video game journalists were
secretly in league with each other

457
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,080
to feminise video games,
and therefore to subjugate men

458
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,320
for whom this is one of the
last refuges of being real men.

459
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,800
REPORTER: What started as an
online spat about the ethics
of gaming journalism

460
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,960
quickly escalated into
a full blown culture war.

461
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,680
Feminists in video games were
the big villains of the moment,

462
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,840
on social media, because users
felt like this was a safe space

463
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:12,240
for them that was being taken away.
Grab a whore and have a good time.

464
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,240
Let go of me! Please don't!

465
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,560
We really just want women
portrayed in a better way.

466
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,080
What we want is for women to
simply be portrayed as people.

467
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:30,320
We wanted some very common sense
reforms to include women and to

468
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:35,360
give us a fair shot at participating
in our field the way that men do.

469
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:44,640
But what happened was I became
the face of, like, the feminists.

470
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,960
"They're trying to come and
take over your video games."

471
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,480
Now the women calling for change
in this multibillion dollar virtual
industry

472
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,600
are facing a very real backlash,
including death threats.

473
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,880
GamerGate was the start
of how we argue online.

474
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,080
We got rape threats, death threats.

475
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,720
We had our careers targeted,
identity theft.

476
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,520
We really saw these dark
corners of the internet really

477
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,360
start to organise and
focus on taking people down.

478
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,600
REPORTER: The threats came
through a Twitter account

479
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,880
using the name Death to Brianna.

480
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,720
Tweeting out Brianna's home address,

481
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,600
threatening to sexually assault
and then murder her.

482
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,680
I had people shooting videos,
wearing a skull mask and holding

483
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,280
a knife up to the camera,

484
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,560
talking about how they
were going to murder me.

485
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,840
They knew how to shut women up that
were saying things that they didn't
like.

486
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,880
This was, swear to God, warfare.

487
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,920
REPORTER: Threats on Twitter
even forced Brianna Wu

488
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,400
to leave her Boston area home
after her address was made public.

489
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,800
I'll never forget this
until the day I die.

490
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,640
I get this anonymous tweet
and it says,

491
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,360
"Guess what, bitch,
I know where you live."

492
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,240
It gives my home address.

493
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,960
It says, you know,
"Your dead mutilated corpse is

494
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,080
going to be on the front
page of Jezebel tomorrow.

495
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:04,480
There isn't jack shit
you can do about it.

496
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,720
If you have children,
they are going to die."

497
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,640
Why do you think there is such
a visceral response against you?

498
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,880
I think you're seeing
some very insecure guys,

499
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,240
like feeling very threatened.
And, you know,

500
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,720
lashing out at us,
being in their space.

501
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,400
(COMPUTER KEYS CLACKING)

502
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,880
The manosphere is an umbrella term

503
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,440
for a collective of
misogynists online.

504
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,920
It started really as a place
for men to gather who were feeling

505
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,280
disenfranchised and really
evolved into splinter groups.

506
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,600
Incels, pickup artists,
men going their own way,

507
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:59,640
but aligned with the idea of
male victimhood and misogyny.

508
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:01,920
They're skanks.

509
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,680
(LAUGHS) I mean, that's what
they fucking are. They're skanks.

510
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,640
Nobody gives a damn about men.

511
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,120
If you're a good looking guy,
you get to flirt all you want,

512
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,680
but if you're an ugly guy,
you don't get to ask anybody out.

513
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,440
If you're a seven or below,

514
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,160
you don't have any rights
under this new feminist agenda.

515
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:18,760
Come on, give me a break.

516
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,120
Some of these groups,
particularly the pick up artists,

517
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,320
were recommending quite
unscrupulous psychological means

518
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,240
of manipulating women,
of luring them in.

519
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:34,080
Give a girl four drinks,
hit her with some decent game,

520
00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:38,440
have an apartment that is close
by and you have a winning formula,

521
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,520
OK, for banging a lot of girls.

522
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,680
A lot of the manosphere was
sharing ideas similar to this.

523
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,560
Also just hatred against women,
conspiracies that women were out

524
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,000
to get men, that men were
the real victims of society.

525
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,400
RECORDING: 'You are a disposable
tool for female enrichment.'

526
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,480
MAN: You know one of these.
(WHISTLES) You go to jail.

527
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,240
That's a three year felony.

528
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,360
A large number of people who've
engaged with that sort of content

529
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,200
genuinely do believe there was
a conspiracy around this world

530
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,000
that is designed to control them,
take away their freedom.

531
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,520
And of course,
Andrew Tate taps into that.

532
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,000
ANDREW TATE:
It's gone so far

533
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,280
to the point where a man
can't yell at a woman.

534
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:20,720
That's domestic violence.

535
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,520
See, you can get in the house
to your girl

536
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,080
sucking your best friend's dick.

537
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,440
You can't scream at her.
You get arrested.

538
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,920
That's what they've done to men now.
That's the world we now live in.

539
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,440
It's 2015, he moves
from the UK out to Romania,

540
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,880
where he's making YouTube videos,
like The Hateful Tate stuff,

541
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,080
these ranting style videos that he
would produce on particular topics.

542
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,480
There are real role models
out there in the world.

543
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,560
There's real men out there
you should look up to

544
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:45,680
and you should respect.

545
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,320
The style he's trying to mimic
was that kind of YouTube style

546
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,880
which was quite popular at the time.

547
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,600
I'm from the generation
when WWE was what everyone watched,

548
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,120
it was the thing.
And he just gave her a beer,

549
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,360
she doesn't like the beer.
He's like, "Have a beer."

550
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,120
She's like,
"It doesn't taste very nice."

551
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,840
Instead of going,
"Oh, I hope you're OK."

552
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,680
Stunner! Boom!

553
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,440
"What do you mean
you don't like the beer?"

554
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,040
Bang!
Now you're out cold, bitch.

555
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,920
He's this relatively marginal figure
that's known a little bit

556
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,360
in the kickboxing world.

557
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,880
He's got some infamy
through the Big Brother period.

558
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,760
But he's not exploding
on social media at that stage.

559
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,400
You know what they should do?

560
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,080
You should have a
license to Facebook.

561
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,120
You have to apply

562
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,280
and prove you're not a fucking
shit-munching dickhead.

563
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,920
He constantly jumps around,

564
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,720
looking around for what's going
to get the most traction.

565
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,440
The continuity is that he wants
to be rich. He wants to be famous.

566
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:38,800
He wants to be powerful.

567
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,080
Fuck the arts. The only art that
matters in this world is pimping,

568
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,440
and I've got a PHD.
Pimping Hoes Degree.

569
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,400
He would brag about
ostensibly owning the term pimp.

570
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,280
I don't think pimp is a bad term.

571
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,320
And he had this camming business,
or this webcam business

572
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,200
where he would have young women
essentially engaging in sex work

573
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,320
on the internet for him, and he was
taking large chunks of the money.

574
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,560
WOMAN: The girls with the Instagram
pages featuring travel,

575
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,360
money, and experiences
are very often using a webcam

576
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,320
to achieve this lifestyle.

577
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,440
No-one really knows how much money
he was actually making.

578
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,120
It seems that
he was making lots of money,

579
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,920
but he constantly lies
about everything,

580
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:21,200
so it's very difficult to say.

581
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,920
But he was certainly making a large
amount of money from engaging

582
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,480
in various forms or getting people
to engage in various forms

583
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,680
of sex work for him. And not only
that, he says, if you follow me,

584
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,481
you can have exactly the same thing.

585
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,720
Do what you want,
try not to get arrested,

586
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:39,080
make some cash and spend it,
cos soon you're going to be dead.

587
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,320
(UNCLEAR)

588
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,560
REPORTER: Gamergate.

589
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,720
It's a story about sexism
in the world of video gaming...

590
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,400
We take for granted
that social media is such a dark

591
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,640
and divisive force in our world,

592
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,320
it's easy to forget that
there was a time when...

593
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,800
there was a lot of optimism
around social media,

594
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,800
you know, it was
connecting humanity.

595
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,480
A way that you
could instantly connect

596
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,120
with something that was going on
on the other side of the world...

597
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,680
(CROWD CLAMOURING)

598
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,360
As a reporter
writing about international affairs

599
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,120
when social media first got started,
I loved it.

600
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,600
The Arab Spring in 2011
had been broadcast

601
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,960
and organised significantly
on Facebook and Twitter.

602
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,160
REPORTER: They call it
the Arab Spring.

603
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,160
Protests that began ten years ago
in Tunisia spread across the region.

604
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:36,160
REPORTER 2: The word of the protests
spread on Facebook and Twitter...

605
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,960
REPORTER 3: A sea of people,
as millions of Egyptians ended

606
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,280
a 30-year-old rule
with peaceful protests.

607
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,680
We saw its potential in the world,
and it's transformative. It's huge.

608
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,560
What we thought we had
was a version of social media

609
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,040
that was unadulterated,

610
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,680
that was really
allowing people to connect.

611
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,880
But that is not the version
of social media

612
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,520
that we are ever going to get,

613
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,680
because these are publicly
traded companies

614
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,600
and they have to follow
the incentives of the market,

615
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,480
which are to give us
Andrew Tates and not Arab Springs.

616
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,240
REPORTER: Tens of thousands of
people are waiting in line

617
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:17,120
across the country as Apple releases
the new iPhone 7 today.

618
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,520
(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)

619
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,840
Oh.
(CHEERING)

620
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:38,200
Here we have the brand-new iPhone 7!

621
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,440
Yeah.

622
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,400
Alright, alright.

623
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,320
Because social media is free to use,

624
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,520
all of their money
comes from advertising.

625
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,040
And that means
that their overwhelming incentive

626
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,520
is to get you, the user,

627
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,800
to spend more time on the platforms,

628
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,760
see more ads that they can sell
against your eyeballs.

629
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,480
To the platform, you know,
getting a lot of video plays

630
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,720
is worth a lot of money.

631
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,760
So in 2012 YouTube set this goal
for themselves:

632
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,120
they want to multiply the amount
of time that people spend

633
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:11,199
on their platform in the aggregate,
by a factor of ten.

634
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,840
They have 100 million hours
of daily watch time on YouTube,

635
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,840
and they want to bring
that up to a billion.

636
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,320
There is this YouTube engineer.

637
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,159
This guy named Guillaume Chaslot,

638
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,639
who was really alarmed
by what he was seeing.

639
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,480
They were amping up this system
and making it more sophisticated

640
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,440
and more powerful at figuring out
what's going to make people

641
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:33,760
stay on the platform.

642
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,760
I'm Guillaume Chaslot,
I did a PhD in AI,

643
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,679
and when I worked at Google

644
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,320
in a project on YouTube
and advertisement.

645
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,040
I was a software engineer.

646
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,639
They want one billion hours
spent on YouTube.

647
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,719
They wanted it to grow
as fast as possible.

648
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,160
An AI is just an algorithm
that's quite complex,

649
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,440
but it has a very simple goal.
In case of YouTube,

650
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,520
your goal was just
to maximise watch time.

651
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,240
Rewind YouTube style.

652
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,640
YouTube is making
billions in revenue...

653
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:13,960
(GRUNTS)

654
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,760
..so even a tiny increase
over watch time

655
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,600
generates automatically
millions and millions per year.

656
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,240
Watch Next AI
was driving the traffic.

657
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,680
All the power is in the AI.

658
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,560
You have billions
of videos on YouTube.

659
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:39,480
The AI, out of this billion videos,
chooses 20 videos to show you.

660
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,000
The algorithm is optimised
for watch time.

661
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,120
People will spend more time
on the platform

662
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,080
have more watch impact
than other people.

663
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,760
So it means even a small community
that spends a massive amount of time

664
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,200
on the platform

665
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:04,160
can be recommended a lot by the
algorithm, because the algorithm

666
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:08,160
is going to try to convince
other people to join this community.

667
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,080
That's what happened with flat-Earth
conspiracy theory.

668
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,280
We don't think the world is flat,
we know that the world is flat

669
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,840
because it is the way...
It is a law, actually.

670
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,960
It's a law of physics.
A law of God, a law of nature.

671
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:22,880
Flat Earth is insanely stupid,

672
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,320
but the people who start to believe
in this conspiracy theory

673
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,560
start to spend
a lot of time on the platform,

674
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,960
because they believe
everybody else is lying to them.

675
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,680
Only YouTube tells the truth.

676
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,520
So they spend six, seven,
eight hours a day on YouTube,

677
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,760
watching more and more videos,
seeing the same thing.

678
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,360
The algorithm is like,
"Fantastic. This is a gold mine.

679
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,640
This is content
everybody should watch."

680
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,960
So the YouTube algorithm
recommended flat Earth

681
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,760
hundreds of millions of times.

682
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,440
It is a law, actually.
It's a law of physics.

683
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,360
It is a law, actually.
It's a law of physics.

684
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:07,560
(VOICE ECHOES)

685
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,120
For the algorithm,
it doesn't matter

686
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,480
if what you recommend
is true or not.

687
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,280
It doesn't care.

688
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,520
Obama and Hillary
both smell like sulphur.

689
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,400
There is a predator race,
which takes a reptilian form...

690
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,920
If we had statistics from YouTube,
we could actually have seen

691
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,480
these small conspiracies
becoming bigger and bigger,

692
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:29,560
but we don't.

693
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,880
I had concerns about the content
that I was seeing recommended.

694
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,960
People told me, who am I to judge?

695
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,640
"If people watch this,
they like it."

696
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,800
But at some point you're responsible
of what you're recommending.

697
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,560
MAN: Everything's politicised.
Everyone's piling on.

698
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,240
They now say the American flag
needs to be banned...

699
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,480
MAN 2: ..humanity into a slave race.
They demand human sacrifice.

700
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,240
They wanted to do to algorithms
that give more control to the user.

701
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,960
When I talked to my boss
about that, he said,

702
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:12,400
"I wouldn't work on this project
if I were you" in a kind of nice way

703
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,880
and kind of threatening way
in the same time.

704
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,880
And so for the next few months,
I stepped.

705
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,120
Then I started again.

706
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,120
One week later, I was fired.

707
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,920
If you look at what social media
was rewarding and incentivising

708
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:34,880
ten years ago,

709
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,960
all of it points to someone
like Andrew Tate.

710
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,040
Strap on an AK 47 and gun down...

711
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,880
Deport, step up support...

712
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,760
..do whatever I can
to help save the high res.

713
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,080
The platforms take
certain aspects of human nature

714
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,360
and put a car battery to it.

715
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,440
Divisiveness, conflict,
tribalism, extremism,

716
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,040
outrage against social change.

717
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,720
There's this huge community
on social networks

718
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,760
with this sense of, we're going
to do something to fight back.

719
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,800
Well, I think the only card she has
is the woman's card.

720
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,480
She's got nothing else going.

721
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,600
And, frankly,
if Hillary Clinton were a man,

722
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,040
I don't think
she'd get 5% of the vote.

723
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,680
CROWD: (CHANTING)
Lock her up!

724
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,120
2016 was a big wake up moment
for a lot of us,

725
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,360
because we all had this vague sense

726
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,240
that Trump reflected something
about the social web.

727
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,640
A lot of the lies that he told
had proliferated on social media.

728
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,840
His style of politics
had been really successful there.

729
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,680
He had really not just succeeded
on the social platforms

730
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,120
but the social platforms
had given rise to something

731
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,080
really big and seismic.

732
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,240
Trump is an extension
of the exact same misogyny

733
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,000
and just raw anger
that formed Gamergate.

734
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,440
It is all the same impulse
that some people

735
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,320
belong in positions of power
and other people don't.

736
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:22,360
(APPLAUSE)

737
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,440
Hillary Clinton was the Antichrist
in these faces, right?

738
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,960
She's the final boss of feminism
that they wanted to stop.

739
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,560
That was, really, the theme
for that election.

740
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,560
Social security payroll
contribution will go up,

741
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,920
as will Donald's, assuming he can't
figure out how to get out of it.

742
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,520
But what we want to do
is to replenish...

743
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Such a nasty woman.

744
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,040
..by making sure...

745
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,200
You can tie all of these events
that are happening in our democracy

746
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,400
in America,
right back to Gamergate.

747
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,920
Steve Bannon looked at Gamergate

748
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,240
and understood it was the way
to radicalise people.

749
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,160
Talk out his strategy
to get Trump elected, he said,

750
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,680
you bring them in through Gamergate
or something like it,

751
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,040
and you turn them on to Trump
and politics.

752
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,920
He understood that igniting people
over these cultural wedge issues

753
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,000
that threaten their identity,

754
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,520
you could then take them and turn
them into Trump supporters.

755
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,680
CROWD: (CHANTING)
USA!

756
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,200
REPORTER: There was
an almost surreal quality

757
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:36,000
to Donald Trump's victory.

758
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,760
A billionaire businessman turned
champion of the working people,

759
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,760
sweeping to power,
stunning the nation and the world.

760
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,360
The fact that I have such power

761
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,840
in terms of numbers with Facebook,
Twitter, Instagram, etc,

762
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,840
I think it helped me win.

763
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,560
Make America Great Again
is not that different

764
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,000
to Make Video Games Great Again,
right?

765
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,000
It's this really
regressive ideology,

766
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,120
"Let's go backwards,
let's protect this.

767
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,600
Let's stop these people
that don't respect us enough."

768
00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:16,720
MAX: It is very easy
to dismiss Donald Trump

769
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,840
as just this reality TV star
who had managed to get a weird,

770
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,520
super engaged social media fandom.

771
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:32,360
What a lot of us realise is that
through the power of these platforms

772
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,840
and the people who have learned
how to manipulate them,

773
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,760
those online niche communities
really can be used

774
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,560
in ways that can steer elections,

775
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,080
even help elect a president.

776
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,400
JOE: By 2017, social media
has almost become ubiquitous,

777
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,640
especially for younger audiences.

778
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,720
Vast numbers of users across a range
of mainstream platforms

779
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,600
is having a massive influence
on societal debates.

780
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,560
MAX: Social media companies
marketed themselves

781
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,280
like this is the new
digital civilisation.

782
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:28,520
This is where humanity happens.

783
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,360
The home of all politics,
all human interaction.

784
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,200
And now everything can happen
through a social platform.

785
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,120
And it really does change a lot.

786
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,560
For example, in 2017
you have the MeToo movement.

787
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,440
The huge moment which showed that
things that rise on social media

788
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,120
that are driven by its users
can bring real political change,

789
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,600
can really change society.

790
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,160
The way the hashtag
exploded on Twitter

791
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,600
shows us that,
while we all thought we were alone,

792
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:00,800
we're not.

793
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,760
But also what happens
as part of that is some people,

794
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,880
like Andrew Tate,
learn that they can exploit that

795
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,200
and kind of hook onto that
for their own benefit.

796
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:11,720
New York Times reported today

797
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,480
Weinstein is accused of sexually
harassing female employees

798
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,440
and actors for decades.

799
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,520
In the wake of the MeToo movement

800
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,560
and the allegations against
Harvey Weinstein,

801
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,720
Andrew Tate tweeted that women
should bear responsibility

802
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,080
for being raped.

803
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:41,240
He is stoking controversy.

804
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,120
He is taking up the mantle
of being a provocateur.

805
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,200
He's saying, "I'm speaking
truth to power."

806
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,760
Of course, this is just a tactic
to gain attention.

807
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:51,800
And it worked.

808
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:00,440
In some senses,

809
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,440
Tate's message kind of comes of age

810
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,640
through that Me Too period.

811
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,520
He'll find there is an audience.

812
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,840
It might not be a kind
of massive audience,

813
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,520
but it's an audience that's
going to be really receptive

814
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,840
to his kind of hypermasculine,
no apologies,

815
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,000
misogyny-style content.

816
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,480
There is an audience of angry
young men on the internet

817
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,840
that want to consume that,
no doubt he sees that.

818
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:27,000
My name is Joule.

819
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:30,400
Online, I was known as the
Sartorial Shooter until I was doxed,

820
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,080
so now I can actually use my name.

821
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,600
I'd say outside of the family,
I'm the one who spent the most time

822
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,160
with him, hundreds of times
over the last five years.

823
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,080
When I met them in 2018, they wanted
a bit more professional image.

824
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:48,560
He'd left the West.
He was living in Romania.

825
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,280
They were living a pretty good life.

826
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:51,440
The cars, the mountains,

827
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,320
the food, you know,
attractive ladies everywhere.

828
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,280
I said, "I have weapons and tactics
training company in Ukraine.

829
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,520
Would you like to come and train?
Pretty much instantly said yes, yes.

830
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,840
So the weapons here,
you can get comfortable cocking it.

831
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,920
Obviously I'll do it, but it doesn't
go off unless it's popped, right?

832
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:11,920
Yeah, but it will be...

833
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,800
We trained together
for three days.

834
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,520
We started talking about the world.
He said, in the West, at the moment,

835
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,240
you can see the way the relationship
between a man and a woman

836
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,240
is being interrupted,
traditional dynamics

837
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,360
are being effectively suppressed
and labelled as bad,

838
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:31,800
and that's impacting the way
relationships are formed,

839
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,960
which then impacts
the way children are raised.

840
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,280
On the macro level,
that impacts society as a whole.

841
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,680
We're seeing some sort
of moral decline

842
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:41,760
or some sort of breakdown of values
in the West.

843
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,040
He was saying
the West is a failed society.

844
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,480
To be honest,
I'm inclined to agree with him.

845
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,880
You could even argue that most
of the masculine role models

846
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:50,680
have been purged
from modern day culture.

847
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:52,640
We don't have
our old school cowboys anymore.

848
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,000
We don't have those gruff
masculine figures.

849
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,440
And so I believe a lot of
young men are looking

850
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,320
for that masculine guidance.
Tate definitely delivers on that.

851
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,480
I said, guys, I think you've got
a very important message

852
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,920
to get out to the world, and I'd
love to support you however I can.

853
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,760
RICHARD: Men like Andrew Tate
are trying to model

854
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:15,960
a certain kind of masculinity.

855
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,480
In his case, of course, a very
misogynist brand of masculinity.

856
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,000
And there are millions of boys
and young men

857
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,440
who don't have a great answer
to the question of like,

858
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,240
what does it mean to be a man today?
What does it mean to grow up?

859
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,160
What does mature masculinity
look like?

860
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,120
How do I go from being a boy
to a man? What am I supposed to do?

861
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,760
MAN: Andrew!
You ain't never...

862
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,240
The most vulnerable boys
and the most vulnerable men

863
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,560
are the ones who've had
difficult childhoods.

864
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,240
WOMAN: You were so happy
to beat your daddy? Yes.

865
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,680
I think it's inevitable
if you've had something of

866
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,240
a broken set of models
of masculinity yourself,

867
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:53,920
then of course you're on a search,

868
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,840
of course you're desperately
searching,

869
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,640
and longing, in some ways.

870
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,600
The script has been torn up,
to a very large extent,

871
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,960
for both men and women, but we've
replaced the script for women

872
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,480
and said it's all about
empowerment and independence,

873
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,400
and "You go girl," etc.

874
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,440
And, I mean, it still moves me

875
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,000
that that's changed so quickly,
but what are we saying to boys now?

876
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,360
We're kind of just
leaving them to it.

877
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,400
That's not a great recipe
because they then go online.

878
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,960
How to be a man. What am I supposed
to do? How do I get a date?

879
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,360
How do I get a girlfriend?
How do I make money?

880
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:33,360
Actually, what
they're really asking is,

881
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,120
"Who the hell am I supposed to be?"

882
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,560
HADEN: Thing that I think about
being a man, a true masculine man,

883
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,160
the number one thing is duty.

884
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,120
It's your duty to protect
your woman.

885
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:46,960
It's your duty to take
care of your family.

886
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:49,520
It's your duty to provide
for your family.

887
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,040
It's your duty to be a good man
to your wife.

888
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,880
It's your duty to be good
to your parents.

889
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,840
There's so many duties
that we have as a man.

890
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:03,880
ARHAM: I feel like society downplays
how difficult it is to be a man.

891
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,120
And I say this as a man
who has experienced adversity.

892
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,040
Men are often unable
to reach out for help.

893
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,800
Your mentality of growing up
into being a man is telling you

894
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:17,720
a certain way to live,

895
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,440
but then the world is telling you
that that way of living is wrong,

896
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,920
or the way you think is wrong,
or you not calling somebody

897
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,800
by their proper pronoun or something
is just wrong.

898
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,400
I'm surprised of women's silence
on a lot of the issues

899
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,840
that are going on,
as far as masculinity and stuff.

900
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,440
What we started to understand was
that for some young men,

901
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,880
anti feminism
and anti-women politics

902
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:48,320
was a route into broader,
far-right politics.

903
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,640
Andrew Tate understood
the power of that.

904
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,520
Social media opened up unprecedented
audiences to individuals

905
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,000
that wanted to push
the politics of hate.

906
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,640
Now, at the click of a button,

907
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,880
someone could be sat in a bedroom
in London and 24 hours a day

908
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,880
find bits of information
which suits their worldview,

909
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,640
that incenses them.

910
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,440
You could see individuals
radicalising down these pathways,

911
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,160
down these rabbit holes.

912
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,000
And some of this was happening
very, very quickly.

913
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,720
Hope Not Hate's job is to monitor
the far right primarily,

914
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,800
and in 2019, there was a number
of things that happened

915
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,960
that made Andrew Tate
really come onto our radar

916
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,920
as a figure that we needed
to look at.

917
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,560
He turns up in America
at a conference called CPAC.

918
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,000
It is kind of a conservative
political conference

919
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,600
that has long attracted
numerous far-right figures

920
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:37,880
from around the world.

921
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,560
(CHEERING) (APPLAUSE)

922
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,440
How social media was developed,

923
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,400
these individuals have been very,
very quick to try and use it.

924
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,480
By that time,
Andrew Tate's not putting out

925
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,280
a huge amount of content online.

926
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,160
He's got a few little things
here and there.

927
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,040
He had a very small footprint,

928
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,960
but then it pops up
in these photographs at CPAC.

929
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:02,440
In those photographs, he was hanging
around with people that

930
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,480
we'd long been looking at
in terms of far-right extremists,

931
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,840
conspiracy theorists
like Paul Joseph Watson,

932
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,000
American figures like Jack Posobiec.

933
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,240
He talked positively
around Alex Jones,

934
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,800
the very high-profile
conspiracy theorist.

935
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,240
He was photographed
next to Nigel Farage,

936
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,200
and all of a sudden it was
very, very clear this was a figure

937
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,080
that was no longer just
an individual that clearly engaged

938
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,120
in terrible behaviour previously,
and got kicked off a TV show.

939
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,280
He was starting to build networks
in a much more extreme world.

940
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,480
I'm here with the man,
Andrew Tate, Cobra Tate.

941
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:38,040
Thanks for coming out, man.I have
Andrew Cobra Tate with me today,

942
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,800
who is...He was put on loads
of podcasts by far-right figures

943
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,040
and social media influencers because
he said extreme and wild things,

944
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,800
that they thought was entertaining
and was going to get them views.

945
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,400
Well, listen, I don't know
if anyone here knows who you are.

946
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,400
I know you're kind of,
I'd like to say up and coming.

947
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,640
I mean, you got 20,000...

948
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,040
He starts to give these really,
really extreme,

949
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:00,680
almost peculiar interviews.

950
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:03,880
I can't think of any socio dynamic,
I can think of any business dynamic,

951
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,400
of any dynamic on Earth
that's better with a female charge.

952
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,360
Yep.
This is reality.I agree.

953
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,120
He was talking about
ownership of women.

954
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,680
He was talking about violence
against women, hitting women,

955
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:14,480
strangling women.
He was willing to say

956
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,880
whatever it took,
whenever it took

957
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,360
to whatever audience he felt
was most likely to get him

958
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,200
what he wanted.
Getting the girl, fucking the girl

959
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:24,080
is the first 10% of the game.

960
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,640
Having a girl tattoo your name
on you, on her...

961
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:28,200
Yeah.
..it's other 90%.

962
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:31,800
How many girls
have your name on them?

963
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:33,160
22. I'm on 22.

964
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:34,840
22, oh, man...

965
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,920
This is a technique that's being
used across these groups,

966
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,000
appearing on each other's podcasts,

967
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,040
helping to bolster
each other's followings

968
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:44,760
by a sort of cross-promotional,

969
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,600
almost a sort of cross-pollination
of each other's content.

970
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,040
The only happy relationship
that can possibly exist

971
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,200
is with a man leading
and a man in charge.

972
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:54,680
Any other relationship
is always misery.

973
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:58,000
They're using each other
for their own financial gain,

974
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,320
for their own fame,
for their own betterment.

975
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,200
And it becomes an entire network,

976
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,520
an entire ecosystem
of very dangerous views.

977
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,000
Andrew, great to have you on.
It's good to be here.

978
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,040
That's a cool place you're in. That
looks like a major chick magnet.

979
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,320
Yeah, well, you know, I'm out here
in Romania at the moment,

980
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,240
which is pretty much...The women
ain't bad-looking in Romania!

981
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,400
They're not bad.
No, they're not bad.(LAUGHS)

982
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,520
JOE: Things start
to shift gear from there,

983
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:30,120
he took his hateful misogyny
and he tailored it to an audience.

984
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,200
He pulls in the sex, he pulls in
the aspirational lifestyle,

985
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,600
uses the techniques of the
influencer communities

986
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,320
around the world.
And he speaks without any filters.

987
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,240
Man, look at history.

988
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,560
Name a powerful alpha from history
who didn't have more than one wife.

989
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,680
JOULE: Tate's focus was
finding ways to make money online.

990
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,800
He was very active in building
certain online products

991
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,920
and selling those,

992
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,200
and that then led into building
the community that is the War Room.

993
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,000
INTERVIEWER:
Why is it called the war room?

994
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,280
I'm not sure. (LAUGHS)

995
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,640
That's a good question.

996
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,960
I think a more accurate title
would be,

997
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,680
"Arguably the most powerful
community of men

998
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:16,240
striving for masculine excellence
every single day."

999
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,440
But it's hard to put
that on a website. Right?

1000
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,520
So I guess they chose the War Room.

1001
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,400
The driving intent
behind the War Room was,

1002
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,080
"We really value our brotherhood,
but we can't find anyone else."

1003
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,040
The Tate brand
was then put out as a filter

1004
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:34,840
for men who perhaps
also wanted the traditional values,

1005
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,560
also wanted that maximum conquest,
building businesses,

1006
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,320
training, pushing for growth
and for evolution every day.

1007
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,400
Tate does put forward solutions.
Get brothers around you,

1008
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,400
get your money right,
get your fitness right,

1009
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,040
work endlessly to improve
your life through attaining

1010
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,120
masculine excellence
in all realms.

1011
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,760
HARRIET: He is identified what he
sees as a gap in the market.

1012
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,880
He's saying to men, "Nobody's
listening to you, but I am,

1013
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,960
and here's how
I can help you be successful."

1014
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,440
He's selling courses online,

1015
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,560
ultimately selling a sexist agenda.

1016
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,640
Welcome to the Tate PHD Course.
If you bought this course,

1017
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:23,080
which you have,
congratulations.

1018
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,080
You're going to change
your life for the better.

1019
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,920
I know exactly what I'm talking
about. I'm fucking certified.

1020
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,440
One of Andrew Tate's courses
was called a PhD course,

1021
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,720
which was the Pimping Hoes Degree.

1022
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,360
A lot of people ask me, what do you
do when your girl does this?

1023
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:37,760
What do you do when a girl does-

1024
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,280
Almost, like, how do you discipline
your female?

1025
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:41,960
I'll tell you now.

1026
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,600
Women only give a shit
about one thing.

1027
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:45,720
Attention.

1028
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,760
In it, we really see him encouraging
men to adopt very unscrupulous,

1029
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,880
manipulative
psychological methods

1030
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:58,080
in a style of advice that
some might consider to be grooming.

1031
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,680
You promise them you'll take them
to fucking Thailand or Bora Bora

1032
00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:03,560
or wherever at the end of the year,

1033
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,800
and we'll live together happily
ever after. This is amazing.

1034
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,520
Promise dreams, sell dreams.

1035
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,640
Tate's adopting this idea
of being a pimp,

1036
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:15,800
or promoting himself as a pimp.

1037
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,880
And, of course, pimping is illegal
and it's exploiting women.

1038
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,160
I take all the money
from all my girls. I take it all.

1039
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,640
I pay fractions to them.

1040
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:29,680
Andrew Tate is a character rising up
and saying, "I'm famous.

1041
00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:32,040
I have all these women,
I have all this money.

1042
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,480
All you need to do is listen to me."

1043
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,240
Dark hair bitch, fuck...
So then it's not about me,

1044
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,280
then it's about THEM
losing to other women

1045
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,360
cos there's more of you everywhere,
half of the world are women.

1046
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,680
Go to the fucking gym.
Get built.

1047
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:46,440
You're built,
you don't need fashion.

1048
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:47,680
..looks like you!

1049
00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:50,320
I'll close my eyes. I'll fuck a
bitch who looks nothing like you

1050
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,280
with my eyes closed
and pretend it's you. I don't care!

1051
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,880
REPORTER: Hospitals
are reaching full capacity.

1052
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,960
Intensive care units in more than
50 Florida hospitals are now full.

1053
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,160
BORIS JOHNSON: To stop the disease
spreading, you must stay at home.

1054
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,680
RICHARD:
Covid was just bad for everybody.

1055
00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:15,760
It was just a crazy,
chaotic, damaging mess.

1056
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,320
We've got a minute on the clock.

1057
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,440
(APPLAUSE)

1058
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:24,040
But it was a bit of an echoing
silence around the real issues

1059
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:25,760
that boys and men were facing.

1060
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,200
In some ways, the pandemic
was a compression in time

1061
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,600
of some of the trends
that we're generally seeing

1062
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,560
with boys and young men,
which is more time online,

1063
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:41,160
more social isolation,
struggling in education.

1064
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,680
So that creates very fertile
territory for people like Tate

1065
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,280
to come in and say,
"I understand it,

1066
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:48,720
here's my solution."

1067
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:54,360
They've taken what are legitimate
problems with a lot of men,

1068
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,400
boys and men, and they've
turned them into grievances,

1069
00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,440
which they're then able to exploit.

1070
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,520
I don't follow blind rules.
These rules are not about safety.

1071
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:04,680
I've had enough of this shit.

1072
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:06,320
Damn.

1073
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:10,280
Andrew Tate taps into this idea
that there is a secret,

1074
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:12,800
powerful elite
controlling their lives.

1075
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,640
In his case, he's the one
that's managed to break free.

1076
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,280
You're not wearing a mask.

1077
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,080
We're anti-mask.

1078
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,480
We are on the Romanian moon,

1079
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,800
we're throwing a party during Covid,
after they specifically told him...

1080
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,560
He flips and flops between
the platforms, attempting to

1081
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,320
both mimic the style of those
platforms, but also mimic

1082
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,400
the messaging that he thinks
he can expand his audience through.

1083
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:35,840
What he manages to
eventually stumble across

1084
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,520
is a formula that
is the perfect storm.

1085
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,920
(OMINOUS MUSIC)

1086
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,200
TikTok started to emerge
around 2018 and 2019,

1087
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,800
but it wasn't until
the pandemic and lockdowns

1088
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,960
that people really started
downloading it in a huge way,

1089
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,680
and it really blew up as the sort
of main social media platform,

1090
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,640
particularly for young people
and teenagers.

1091
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:05,720
TikTok is the latest app
to capture the attention of teens

1092
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:08,280
and young adults across the world.

1093
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,120
A TikTok is all about fun and money.

1094
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,000
Eyeballs bring money.

1095
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:18,120
People were learning dance routines.

1096
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:19,720
It was fun. It was addictive.

1097
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,840
MAX: TikTok functions
on algorithms,

1098
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:26,720
just like the other platforms,

1099
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,880
and it turns on the exact
same human frailties.

1100
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,000
But it is much more
algorithmically-focused.

1101
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,080
TikTok is pure algorithm.

1102
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,080
All it does is show you video
and then learn from that

1103
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,880
what you spend time on,
what you don't spend time on.

1104
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:47,360
It is just laser-focused
on your, like, monkey brain.

1105
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,600
And it loves to show you
the same types of content

1106
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:54,640
over and over and over again.

1107
00:59:57,680 --> 00:59:59,800
MAN: (ON VIDEO)
Oh! What the fuck?

1108
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,960
JOE: TikTok is the perfect
platform for Andrew Tate.

1109
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,360
Men have never been faithful. Ever.

1110
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:08,160
Look at history. Every single...

1111
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,600
If you track Andrew Tate
on social media

1112
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:12,480
Tate blips when he's on Big Brother,

1113
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,960
and he tries to break through
a little bit on social media.

1114
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,320
Then there's another blip
when he starts talking about

1115
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,440
some of the MeToo content, but
he remains relatively irrelevant

1116
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:23,640
until you see this meteoric rise
through the TikTok period.

1117
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,680
The kind of history of social media
and the history of Andrew Tate

1118
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:27,960
collide in that moment.

1119
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,880
The most beautiful women, on
average, have slept with less men

1120
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,000
than an average chick.

1121
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,760
JOULE: Tate's goal was to blow up.
To master the attention economy.

1122
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,880
He knows how to bring in attention
through saying things that are...

1123
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,480
things that get a reaction.
That's a conscious strategy.

1124
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,680
Become Hustlers University.
Welcome to the metaverse.

1125
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,400
Inject it into your brain.

1126
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,640
And if you only exist
amongst the money...

1127
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:53,240
you're going to end up
with some money.

1128
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,480
Welcome to the Hustlers University.

1129
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,600
Early 2022 we start
to hear increasingly

1130
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,040
about this thing called
the Hustlers University.

1131
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,160
He bragged it was the largest
online university in the world.

1132
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,800
It's a very broad
use of the term 'university'.

1133
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,400
And when you are in this online
space, there was various courses.

1134
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,240
You're supposed to be lectured
by millionaires.

1135
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,240
Whatever it was,
there was a big chunk of it

1136
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:19,200
about an affiliate marketing scheme.

1137
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,720
And by that, what I mean is,

1138
01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:24,080
if you've got people to sign up
to Hustlers University,

1139
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:27,160
you got, I think,
48% of their sign up fee.

1140
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,760
This became the mechanism
and the means by which his content

1141
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:36,120
is spread vastly across all various
forms of social media platforms.

1142
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,800
If you take these long form
interviews that he's giving

1143
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,400
on podcasts, on YouTube...

1144
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,080
MAN: And then just adjust this.

1145
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,520
..and you clip it up into hundreds
of little clips of him

1146
01:01:46,560 --> 01:01:50,360
saying the most extreme stuff that's
going to get the most traction...

1147
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:58,440
Then on the bottom bit of that you
put a link to Hustlers University,

1148
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,760
people click on that content
and you get some money back.

1149
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:03,760
If you're a girl
that everyone's had...

1150
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:07,000
This is the engine which
explodes him on TikTok.

1151
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,200
..she likes?
She's not allowed to like things.

1152
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,080
Her opinions are invalid. She's
a female. She's barely sentient.

1153
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:14,840
She can't think for herself.
You're supposed to think for her.

1154
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,400
Just to come along and say...
(DIALOGUE FADES)

1155
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,640
There's multiple days where
I would just sit there and scroll,

1156
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,960
and then I'll get three Andrew Tate
videos and then some stupid video,

1157
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,000
then three Andrew Tate videos
and then some stupid video.

1158
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:29,800
You know, it just
sounded like... an old me.

1159
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:34,200
It was refreshing to hear these
things being said and stuff again.

1160
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,840
And it's just like, "OK, you know,

1161
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,200
masculinity is coming back
or trying to."

1162
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:41,680
So, I figured I'd give him a push

1163
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,800
and try to listen
to everything that he said.

1164
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,680
He represents a lifestyle that any
young man would want to have.

1165
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:51,280
And he shows you how you can get
that through discipline, hard work.

1166
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,600
Everybody was trying to tell me
I should hate him.

1167
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:55,440
And it was hard for me to hate him.

1168
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,920
So I was trying to find a way like,
"Should I really hate this guy?"

1169
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:00,880
And I don't hate him, so.
(CHUCKLES)

1170
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:05,160
So I put a plan together
to conquer TikTok four months ago.

1171
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,320
Yeah.And I've now
completed my conquest.

1172
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:08,800
Yeah.
So, bro, done.

1173
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:13,120
So I conquered TikTok faster than
the nation states conquer countries.

1174
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,520
(OMINOUS MUSIC)

1175
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,000
It became impossible to open up
a social media app,

1176
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,000
any of the major platforms,
and not come across this content.

1177
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,880
Not because you wanted to,
but because it was served up to you.

1178
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,360
I would never let a woman pay
for a bill.

1179
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:34,640
By that summer we're talking over
12 billion views of content

1180
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:35,920
that's related to Tate.

1181
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,440
TATE: This new idea that men
and women are the same

1182
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,280
is complete garbage
that's been invented, right?

1183
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,400
CHLOE: I was in the garden
with my two boys.

1184
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,240
One was just pre-teen
and one was a teenager.

1185
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,960
They said something
that was a bit odd about girls

1186
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,960
and I obviously questioned it.
I'm sure that it was, like,

1187
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,000
a derogatory sort of
'female' kind of slang,

1188
01:03:57,040 --> 01:03:59,200
and I just didn't understand
where it had came from.

1189
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,680
They mentioned Andrew Tate,
so we Googled him.

1190
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,400
I'd never heard of him before.

1191
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:08,720
(HIP-HOP MUSIC)

1192
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:15,280
I really didn't think that
anyone would take him seriously,

1193
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,120
it was so kind of cringy.

1194
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,200
I was quite dismissive.

1195
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:29,960
But then in school, I noticed
a change in the boys' vocabulary,

1196
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,360
like misogyny,
patriarchy, chauvinism.

1197
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,240
You know, in my 20-year career,

1198
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,680
I'd never really heard teenage boys
being at ease with these words.

1199
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:41,840
It really kind of surprised me.

1200
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:45,280
One level, I was pleased that
they had the vocabulary,

1201
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,520
but I didn't know
where it had came from.

1202
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,920
I was asked, "Does your husband
let you go to work?"

1203
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,680
No-one had ever asked me
that before.

1204
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,320
A student asked about my body count.

1205
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:04,920
Now, obviously that's
an inappropriate question to ask.

1206
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,880
And they know it's
an inappropriate question to ask.

1207
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:12,760
There was a certain kind of
verbally aggressive tone

1208
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,280
that was very Andrew Tate.

1209
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,760
It definitely seems
like a regression.

1210
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,640
You know, noticeable change in the
ways that boys talked about girls.

1211
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,920
It's completely wrong
to dismiss him as a joke

1212
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,120
because he's not a joke.
He's a real threat.

1213
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,160
TATE: I'll never look at a beautiful
woman who does everything I say

1214
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,760
and go, "You know what?
You do too much of what I say,

1215
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:39,720
I'm gonna go get
some disagreeable bitch."

1216
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:41,760
The way that he relates to humanity,

1217
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,040
that makes him really dangerous
to young people.

1218
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,520
I conquered the internet,
hundreds of millions of dollars,

1219
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,280
four times kickboxing
world champion, 27 cars,

1220
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:50,960
properties across the world.

1221
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:02,480
MAX: Our brains evolved
to have social feedback

1222
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:05,760
from like 10 to 20 people at most.

1223
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:10,320
Social platforms deliver a very,
different kind of feedback

1224
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,400
on a much, much larger scale.

1225
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,920
and they push you
very, very deliberately

1226
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:18,600
towards certain emotions,
certain social feedbacks

1227
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,440
that do change how people behave and
change how we feel and how we act.

1228
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,080
REPORTER 1: On social media
there's growing concern

1229
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:32,480
that constant online interaction
can affect attention spans...

1230
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,840
REPORTER 2: Social media and the
internet is part of everyday life

1231
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,480
for children and teenagers.

1232
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,320
REPORTER: The coroner said
14-year-old Molly Russell

1233
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,240
died from an act of self-harm
while suffering from depression

1234
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,600
and the negative effects
of online content.

1235
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:53,840
When you're on social media,
you're not the customer...

1236
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:56,800
..you're the product.

1237
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:00,120
They are selling your engagement
to advertisers,

1238
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,720
and they're selling
your user data to advertisers.

1239
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:09,240
So they have a direct
and palpable economic incentive

1240
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,240
to maximise the engagement
of every user.

1241
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:17,560
Not by showing them
what they want to see,

1242
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,800
but by showing them
what they can't look away from.

1243
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,720
Kids are particularly vulnerable,
both to become addicted to

1244
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,760
social media, but also
to have bad judgment regarding

1245
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:33,680
what they do on social media.
And then overreact emotionally

1246
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,280
to adverse consequences
on social media.

1247
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,320
So, it's a perfect storm.

1248
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:44,240
We filed our first case
in January of 2022

1249
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,400
and it involved Selena Rodriguez,

1250
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:51,240
an 11-year-old girl who took her
life and filmed it on Snapchat.

1251
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,520
She was a child that was
so addicted to social media that

1252
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,200
she broke her sister's nose when
they tried to take her phone away.

1253
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:07,880
ANNOUNCER: Breaking news, at least
ten people dead in a mass shooting

1254
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:09,920
at a supermarket in Buffalo.

1255
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,120
ANNOUNCER 2: The shooter was heavily
armed and had tactical gear

1256
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:14,880
and a tactical helmet on.

1257
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,640
ANNOUNCER 3: According to the
lawsuit, the shooter was radicalised

1258
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,399
by algorithms on the social media
sites that he used,

1259
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:24,120
which fed him, and I'm quoting here,
"increasingly racist,

1260
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:27,720
anti-Semitic and
violence-inducing content."

1261
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:33,359
Payton Gendron was targeted
with artificial intelligence

1262
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:36,880
on a number of platforms,
including YouTube.

1263
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,279
In order to maintain his engagement

1264
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:44,200
they sent him down a rabbit hole of
it showing him increasingly radical,

1265
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:48,120
racist, anti-Semitic material.

1266
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,439
The social media companies
have designed products

1267
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,359
to maximise engagement.

1268
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:00,399
They are unsafe
when they're used as intended

1269
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,960
because the use is predictable
and designed into it.

1270
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:09,120
There's no mistake. There's no
mystery. There's no coincidence.

1271
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:12,840
This was foreseeable.
We knew this was going to happen,

1272
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,600
but there was so much money to be
made that they kept making it.

1273
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,600
And they kept doing it,
even though they knew that

1274
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:24,439
these kinds of situations would keep
occurring again and again and again.

1275
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,880
JOE: I think the best way
to understand the impact

1276
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,399
of people that create harmful
and pernicious content

1277
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,160
is often very, very difficult to
turn around and say,

1278
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:44,760
"This person that went off and did
something awful in the real world

1279
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:48,720
is purely indirectly responsible
Back to Andrew Tate," for example.

1280
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:52,600
But what they do is Andrew Tate,
and content creators like him,

1281
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,560
they create a swamp of content which
is pernicious and nasty and hateful.

1282
01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:59,000
And out of that swamp
will emerge mosquitoes

1283
01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:00,960
which go off and
do individual things.

1284
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,320
He's fundamental to creating
a kind of ecosystem online,

1285
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:06,760
where individuals
consume harmful content,

1286
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:09,200
over which he cannot control
what they go and do.

1287
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:11,560
But those mosquitoes emerge
out of that swamp,

1288
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,480
and some of them go off
and do terrible things.

1289
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:18,040
ANNOUNCER: Research shining
a light on the dark
underside of social media.

1290
01:10:18,080 --> 01:10:20,440
Connecting and promoting
a network of accounts

1291
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:22,360
dedicated to underage sex content.

1292
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,840
WOMAN: They were touching my upper
and middle portion of my avatar.

1293
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:28,560
He said things like,
"Don't pretend you don't love it.

1294
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,680
TATE: Feminists who hate us
and call us toxic,

1295
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:33,440
the second they have trouble,
they'll call a police officer.

1296
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:36,680
ANNOUNCER 2: Lost control of
the amount of time
that youngsters spend online.

1297
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:38,320
TATE: Women need to respect you
as a man.

1298
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,680
How's a woman gonna respect you
if no other girl wants you?

1299
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,480
They all had 100 wives, bunch of
children. Big G, conquers the world.

1300
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,840
Normal. That's normal
evolutionary biology.

1301
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,720
That's how men are designed to be.

1302
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:52,320
Deplatforming is a tactic
we try to use quite sparingly

1303
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,800
at Hope Not Hate.
It's based on the understanding

1304
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:57,320
that certain individuals
engage in behaviour

1305
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,120
that is so harmful and toxic it has
a real effect, both on society,

1306
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,160
but also on the online spaces
in which they're active.

1307
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:07,920
The other big line
is whether or not we think

1308
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,520
it's going to have a really
negative effect on society.

1309
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,960
And Andrew Tate just
increasingly ticked each box.

1310
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,640
His content was breaking
the terms of service

1311
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:21,080
of all of the major
social media platforms.

1312
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:22,880
And yet, the platforms
weren't acting.

1313
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,120
It's bang, out the machete,
boom, in her face,

1314
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:29,920
and grip her up by the neck,
"Shut up, bitch!"

1315
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,800
We watched everything
we could get our hands on.

1316
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:36,160
Spent time in Hustlers University
online to try and better understand

1317
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,120
the mechanisms of what he was doing
in terms of money-making,

1318
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,640
and we brought that research
together and we produced a report.

1319
01:11:42,680 --> 01:11:45,800
It was clear that this
was something that had broken out

1320
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:48,760
of the confines of
marginal online spaces

1321
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:51,440
and was having a genuine effect
on young people.

1322
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,960
We go to the tech platforms.
We send them our research and say,

1323
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,480
"Essentially, here's an opportunity
to do the right thing."

1324
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,320
In a matter of days,
we see YouTube remove his account.

1325
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,800
Instagram, Facebook.
It's all starting to look good.

1326
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:10,120
TikTok act very, very slowly, become
very, very aggressive with us,

1327
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:13,080
but eventually claim that
they have also removed an account.

1328
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:16,800
Andrew Tate has been banned
from Facebook and Instagram

1329
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:20,440
for violating its policies
around dangerous individuals.

1330
01:12:20,480 --> 01:12:23,280
What you start to see is
probably the most successful

1331
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:27,120
deplatforming campaign we'd ever
been involved in at Hope Not Hate.

1332
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:34,040
HARRIET: Shortly after Tate
had been deplatformed,

1333
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,280
we approached Tate for a comment.

1334
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,160
And he was very keen
to be interviewed.

1335
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:43,200
We debated long and hard
about whether

1336
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:47,200
we might be inadvertently
providing another platform for him

1337
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,600
to share his insidious views,

1338
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:53,400
but ultimately, this was
a man that had global notoriety.

1339
01:12:55,440 --> 01:12:59,040
We spoke over Zoom
in the summer of August 2022.

1340
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:03,200
During a conversation,
he describes

1341
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:06,840
his content being
taken out of context.

1342
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,160
And when I asked him
to provide the context,

1343
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:10,880
he actually doubled down on this.

1344
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,040
He said, "I agree with everything
I've ever said.

1345
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:15,400
I stand by everything
I've ever said."

1346
01:13:19,920 --> 01:13:23,640
Deplatforming is not a silver bullet
and never has been.

1347
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:27,000
For a very, very short moment
it felt like a great success.

1348
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:30,200
It felt like, actually, the platform
was publicly pressured

1349
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,720
into doing something really
positive, and we felt

1350
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:36,760
it was going to have a real long
term effect on his appeal online.

1351
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,400
Sadly, that didn't turn out
to be the case.

1352
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,240
PRODUCER: No.
No.(LAUGHTER)

1353
01:13:46,605 --> 01:13:48,880
Oh, you banned me from Instagram,
did you?

1354
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:51,560
I'm still on a private jet,
mother fucker.

1355
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,040
I'm still travelling the world.
I'm still top G.

1356
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,800
Think you can ban me,
you can't ban me.

1357
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,680
I'm back with a vengeance.

1358
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:01,560
The matrix can't defeat me.

1359
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:03,920
Previously, you'd remove
a really harmful figure

1360
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,240
and they would end up
on an alternative platform,

1361
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,920
Getta or Gab,
speaking to tiny audiences.

1362
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,880
He was removed from YouTube,
Facebook and Instagram,

1363
01:14:11,920 --> 01:14:15,520
and he was talking about things
on vast international TV shows.

1364
01:14:15,560 --> 01:14:18,800
PIERS MORGAN: He's the most famous
man you probably never heard of

1365
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,840
with billions of views online.

1366
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:23,800
This was a challenge those of us
that engage in campaigning

1367
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:25,760
for deplatforming
hadn't faced before.

1368
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:27,320
Well, welcome first of all,

1369
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:30,320
you come all the way from Romania
to do this interview.Correct.

1370
01:14:30,360 --> 01:14:33,560
What do you hope to achieve from
this interview? Why are you here?

1371
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,720
It'd be interesting to have
a conversation with you.

1372
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:37,280
You've certainly been the subject

1373
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,280
of your own divided opinions in the
world. There's a lot of people

1374
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:43,440
who would say some of the things you
say are perhaps dangerous or toxic.

1375
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:45,920
I thought you'd be a good person
to speak to on this subject.

1376
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,560
He starts to use mainstream media,
use these major global platforms

1377
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,600
that he's given to launder
his reputation again

1378
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:53,840
to a global audience.

1379
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:55,200
I don't hate women in any regard.

1380
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:58,280
I have no negative relationship with
women. No women have come forward

1381
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,880
saying I've hurt them. I've no
criminal record against women.

1382
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:03,720
I think rape is disgusting.
I'd take a stronger stance on rape

1383
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,720
than the British government. I think
they should face the death penalty.

1384
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:09,360
And then that clip is
back on social media,

1385
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:11,880
and all of a sudden you can
watch him again on social media,

1386
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,040
despite his own platform
being removed.

1387
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:16,680
I will say that I am sorry
that offends you.

1388
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:20,560
However, there's a large
contingent of the world-
That doesn't mean you're sorry.

1389
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:22,880
I'm not sorry, that's my point.
Please don't interrupt.

1390
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,600
I know why you're good at your job.
First you interrupt people a lot,

1391
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:27,680
which is a good skill-
(OVERLAPPING CHATTER)

1392
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:30,920
You're proving me right, the timing
is good. The other thing you do...

1393
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,000
Every time he's caught and he gets
in trouble he reinvents himself

1394
01:15:34,040 --> 01:15:37,800
in a different way, a way he hopes
will allow him to get sympathy.

1395
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,480
He tapped into
an existing culture war.

1396
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:45,480
And took himself from an individual
that was rightly removed

1397
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,080
for engaging in awful
and dangerous behaviour,

1398
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:51,000
into an individual that was being
persecuted for telling the truth.

1399
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:53,280
So, they're scared of men,
free-thinking,

1400
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,280
and they're scared of young
men free-thinking.

1401
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,440
And my fans are young,
military age males,

1402
01:15:57,480 --> 01:16:00,080
and I teach them to free think.
So they look at me

1403
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:02,640
and they literally see me
as a threat to the world.

1404
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,240
And that's why... I think
they're going to try and kill me.

1405
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:07,720
And I think this is one of
our last chances to fight.

1406
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:09,600
And I think it's a battle
of good versus evil,

1407
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:11,200
genuinely God against the demons.

1408
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,040
(DOOR KNOCK)

1409
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,560
ANNOUNCER 1: The social media
personality Andrew Tate,

1410
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,880
alongside his brother Tristan,
have been arrested

1411
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,120
on suspicion of
human trafficking and rape.

1412
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,400
ANNOUNCER 2: Widely regarded as one
of the most famous people online.

1413
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:30,920
He's grown his profile
through misogynistic,

1414
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:32,560
racist and homophobic commentary.

1415
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:35,440
It seemed pretty obvious to lots
of people that someone that had

1416
01:16:35,480 --> 01:16:38,680
this attitude towards women, that
bragged about certain behaviours

1417
01:16:38,720 --> 01:16:40,840
and certain things
that he'd even done himself,

1418
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:44,320
that at some point there needs
to be consequences for that.

1419
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,040
But I don't think anyone realised
quite how extreme

1420
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:50,760
some of the charges would be and
how many victims would come forward.

1421
01:16:50,800 --> 01:16:53,720
He's now been charged
and is awaiting trial for rape,

1422
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:56,680
human trafficking, and forming
an organised crime group

1423
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:58,800
designed to exploit women.

1424
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:00,640
The matrix has attacked me.

1425
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:05,760
He's innocent until proven guilty.
This has to go through the courts.

1426
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:08,000
But this is not the way
he spun it online,

1427
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,200
which is, this is
a matrix attack against him

1428
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:12,800
because he said some
nasty things on social media.

1429
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,200
He's told his supporters that
he's being dragged through the mud

1430
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,840
because he got some women
some views on TikTok,

1431
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:21,240
and that's just absolutely
not the truth.

1432
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:23,880
God knows the truth.
There's no evidence in my file.

1433
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:25,560
(INDISTINCT SHOUTS)

1434
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:29,240
Everybody knows I'm innocent.
That's OK. Everyone knows.

1435
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:33,040
JOE: The thing that I think
was so depressing was how many

1436
01:17:33,080 --> 01:17:35,680
of his supporters responded
in a way that's just exactly

1437
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,120
as he would have wanted them to
and said, "This can't be true."

1438
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:45,840
When you look back now
at the content that he produced

1439
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,720
over a number of years
prior to his arrest, it seems pretty

1440
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,480
clear that he's inoculating his
audience against what's coming.

1441
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,880
First you get cancelled. Then they
make up a reason to put you in jail.

1442
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,480
And if that fails, they kill you.

1443
01:17:56,520 --> 01:17:59,120
He is pre-loading his audience
with all the arguments

1444
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:01,960
that they need to defend him
when he gets arrested.

1445
01:18:08,480 --> 01:18:10,600
Oh, yeah. Mainstream media.

1446
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,200
Oh, shit.
I'll just put it simple like this.

1447
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:16,440
They tell you what to think,
and they control why you think it.

1448
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:18,720
For sure Tate has brainwashed me.

1449
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,080
But do you accept your brainwashing?
You know?

1450
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:23,760
I appreciate more of
his brainwashing than...

1451
01:18:25,080 --> 01:18:28,120
..than stuff my mom
has told me for years.

1452
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,040
That's just a problem
with the world.

1453
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:32,680
They don't want these aspirations
right now. They don't.

1454
01:18:32,720 --> 01:18:35,840
You know, they've basically
killed off all of our great leaders

1455
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,320
and imprisoned the rest in...

1456
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:40,880
propaganda, the few remaining left.

1457
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,000
If he ends up in prison
for a long period of time

1458
01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,080
and he doesn't have
access to social media.

1459
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,320
A lot of these movements move on.

1460
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:02,000
But over 90-odd percent
of young men know who he is,

1461
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,560
and 50% of those people
agree with him.

1462
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,000
The impact of this,
what's happening right now,

1463
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:10,800
will not just end the moment he gets
rid of his social media accounts,

1464
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:12,480
or he becomes an irrelevance.

1465
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,480
He'll inculcate people
with views about women

1466
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,800
that will last some
of those people decades,

1467
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:21,280
and there's ramifications will go on
for a long period of time.

1468
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,680
(OMINOUS MUSIC STING)

1469
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,800
ANNOUNCER 1: Widely regarded as one
of the most famous people online.

1470
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:32,560
MAN: A TikTok is all about
fun and money.

1471
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,160
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)

1472
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:39,440
ZUCKERBERG: Facebook has
become less about colleges

1473
01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:41,240
and more about sharing
lots of content

1474
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:42,760
with different groups of people.

1475
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:46,120
When people share more, the world
becomes more open and connected.

1476
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,840
And in a more open world,
many of the biggest problems

1477
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,400
we face together
will become easier to solve.

1478
01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:54,280
MAX: There was this line that Mark
Zuckerberg used to use all the time.

1479
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,880
He said, "We are fundamentally
rewiring the world

1480
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:58,960
from the ground up."

1481
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:00,440
This belief...

1482
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:02,920
that we, Silicon Valley,

1483
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,320
are going to end the old ways
as we know it

1484
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:09,920
and replace it with this new,
pure civilisation of the mind.

1485
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:13,200
(CHUCKLES) We get a lot
of feedback saying,

1486
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:15,760
like, how much people love the site.

1487
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:17,920
So, how did we get
to where we are now?

1488
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,320
A very different
and a much darker place.

1489
01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:25,360
The companies, at this point,

1490
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:27,520
they don't have naivete
as an excuse anymore.

1491
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:30,680
They don't have, "we don't know.
We were just 22-year-old dropouts."

1492
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,680
They're grown ups now.
They know what the platforms do.

1493
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,440
They understand the effect
that it has on its users

1494
01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:38,720
and it has on our politics
and our societies.

1495
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:40,280
And they are choosing that.

1496
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,320
MAN: 37% of teenage girls
were exposed

1497
01:20:46,360 --> 01:20:49,640
to unwanted nudity
in a week on Instagram.

1498
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:51,360
You knew about it,
who was fired?

1499
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:55,040
Senator, this is why we're building-
Who did you fire?

1500
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:57,480
Senator, that's not- That's-
Who did you fire?

1501
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,040
Um, I'm not gonna answer that.

1502
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,160
There's families
of victims here today.

1503
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:03,440
Have you apologised to the victims?

1504
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:08,520
Would you like to do so now? They're
here. You're on national television.

1505
01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,080
Would you like now to apologise to
the victims who have been harmed-

1506
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:14,440
Show the pictures.
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

1507
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:24,320
I think a lot of social media
engineers do believe that

1508
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,000
they are just reflecting our own
psychology back to us,

1509
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:29,840
and there is a lot of truth to that.

1510
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:31,880
These tendencies don't
come from nowhere.

1511
01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:34,760
(CHUCKLES)
But it is still true

1512
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,400
and has been demonstrated
over and over again,

1513
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:40,480
including by the researchers
within these companies,

1514
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,720
that their platforms
dramatically exacerbate

1515
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,240
and amplify these worst tendencies.

1516
01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:52,320
THOMAS: I ran one of the largest
experiments ever run,

1517
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,960
which was to change a platform of
hundreds of millions of people

1518
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,880
from a completely
chronological feed

1519
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,120
to something where
the platform controls

1520
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:02,920
the distribution of content.

1521
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,760
It was, like, a very radical change
to a lot of people all at once.

1522
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,840
And so there's just a lot
to understand about that.

1523
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:15,160
But yeah...

1524
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,520
I hope I'm not come across cold.
(CHUCKLES)

1525
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:21,000
I mean, truly, like,
weird times, strange things.

1526
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,120
And, you know, in some ways,

1527
01:22:23,160 --> 01:22:25,840
I'm still thinking about things
that were happening there

1528
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,280
and not with regret, but with,
like, maybe sober mind.

1529
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:31,600
It's like, "Oh."

1530
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:36,680
It's strange to think about myself
being there and involved in them.

1531
01:22:37,640 --> 01:22:40,400
Being able to flip a switch
that affects 300 million

1532
01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:42,440
or 400 million people.

1533
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,120
It's not- I don't think I even-
Yeah, it's just hard.

1534
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:48,320
Hard to comprehend what that means.

1535
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,600
It's a very weird feeling
to have had a lot of impact,

1536
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:01,120
but not knowing if this impact
was good or bad.

1537
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,040
It's a bit overwhelming when
you when you think about that.

1538
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:07,480
So you prefer, naturally,
you prefer not to think about it.

1539
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:17,360
MAX: Now we have AI and we know that
it is going to be transformative.

1540
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:22,120
For example, what would
it be like if...

1541
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:24,880
we had another Microsoft Tay today?

1542
01:23:24,920 --> 01:23:28,560
That chat bot that Microsoft
developed back in 2016

1543
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:32,000
that went haywire and started
sending racist, crazy tweets.

1544
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,040
You really just have to look
at someone like Andrew Tate,

1545
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:39,640
someone who has already decided
that they want to optimise

1546
01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:42,480
for whatever the platform
wants them to optimise for.

1547
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:44,360
And the only difference is

1548
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:47,040
they would probably look more
realistically human.

1549
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,560
And there's going to be
a lot more of them.

1550
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,120
It wouldn't surprise me
if somebody was already doing it

1551
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,760
and we just didn't know.

1552
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:00,640
People ask me, aren't you worried
that AI in social media

1553
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:03,600
could change our politics
and our society?

1554
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:06,720
It's already happening.
Social media is already doing that.

1555
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,320
And so it's...
you know, it's too late.

1556
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,920
It's like a handful... companies

1557
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:20,640
that are deciding
literally where the world is going.

1558
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:22,840
And when you ask them,
"Hey, can you...

1559
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,240
can you let me...

1560
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,120
see where the world is going?"

1561
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:30,000
And they're like, "No, no, no,
this is our private information.

1562
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:32,600
No, you can't have
access to this information."

1563
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,720
That's, for me,
is absolutely insane.

1564
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:41,880
I don't want to sound like a,
kind of, Luddite and say

1565
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:44,320
that we should get rid of
all this stuff

1566
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,480
and only talk about
the terrifying things.

1567
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,240
There's no doubt that AI is
going to revolutionise our lives

1568
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:52,280
in remarkable and brilliant ways.
Health care and all these things.

1569
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:55,640
But we're already seeing how AI
is being used by those individuals

1570
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,720
that are determined to push hate,
determined to undermine democracy.

1571
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,240
ANNOUNCER 1: As cameras
captured, in real time,

1572
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,120
the arraignment of Donald Trump,

1573
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:08,160
deep fake photos like these swirled
around social media, seemingly

1574
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,600
showing the former president
struggling with authorities.

1575
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:16,720
The real danger with AI is not that
we believe things that aren't true,

1576
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:18,600
is that we just stop
believing anything.

1577
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:21,800
2024 is the year that will have
the most people going to the polls

1578
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,160
of any year in human history.

1579
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:26,880
(APPLAUSE)

1580
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,800
When we talk about free and fair
elections, we have to consider

1581
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,640
how free and fair elections
can be when millions of people

1582
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:35,840
around the world are being
manipulated by social media.

1583
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:38,320
When we see a real politician
giving a statement,

1584
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:39,760
it can be written off as AI.

1585
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:42,320
When we see a hateful figure
that is arrested for a crime,

1586
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:45,000
they turn around and say,
"I didn't do that, that was AI."

1587
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:48,800
Unfortunately, there's a chance that
the worst is not behind us on this.

1588
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:52,600
INTERVIEWER:
Thanks so much, Joe.

1589
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,400
I'll have to get protection
after this comes out.(LAUGHTER)

1590
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:00,920
INTERVIEWER:
Really grateful.

1591
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,000
Here,
it will take me two seconds.

1592
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:07,280
He's just- He's just going
to get noisier at this point.

1593
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:08,880
(CAT MEOWS)

1594
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:16,640
What- What is the take away,
like..?

1595
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:19,400
Because I'm feeling quite despairing
and- (LAUGHS)

1596
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:21,720
You know, it's just like,
are we doomed?

1597
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:23,440
(LAUGHTER)
Yeah.

1598
01:26:23,480 --> 01:26:27,880
It's a problem you're describing
that I'm very familiar with.

1599
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:28,920
I know you are.

1600
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:33,200
I mean, I don't know
if this is useful for you,

1601
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,800
but there's much more awareness
and understanding

1602
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:39,880
that social media is harmful
and the ways that it's harmful

1603
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:43,400
in the way that there really
wasn't even just 3 or 4 years ago.

1604
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:50,960
There is a growing sense
that maybe these are not good places

1605
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:53,520
to get your sense of identity.

1606
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:01,240
People starting to, like, question
their relationship to these apps.

1607
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:06,600
Maybe we're at the start of a,
like, broader awakening

1608
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:08,640
about the harms of these platforms.

1609
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:16,560
At this point, we know that Silicon
Valley is not going to fix it.

1610
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,760
And governments are going
to try with regulations,

1611
01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:20,840
but they can only get so far,
you know,

1612
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:22,720
what do you want to do differently?

1613
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:25,000
What do you want to change
about how you engage

1614
01:27:25,040 --> 01:27:27,480
with the internet
and with social platforms,

1615
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:29,720
now that you know what
it's doing to you?

1616
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:35,800
(COMPUTER BEEPING)

1617
01:27:37,240 --> 01:27:39,080
(PHONE CHIMES)

1618
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:18,160
Subtitles by Sky Access Services
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