1 00:00:01,001 --> 00:00:02,169 [♪ theme music playing] 2 00:00:07,425 --> 00:00:08,467 [♪ music concludes] 3 00:00:09,301 --> 00:00:12,471 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 4 00:00:18,352 --> 00:00:21,021 {\an8}[dog barking, howling] 5 00:00:24,024 --> 00:00:27,653 {\an8}Amanda, at this stage is cornered, really. 6 00:00:28,237 --> 00:00:29,822 They raided her house. 7 00:00:31,949 --> 00:00:35,618 {\an8}My mom sent me videos of them hiding out 8 00:00:35,619 --> 00:00:37,872 {\an8}in the back of the car. 9 00:00:38,122 --> 00:00:40,624 [Aletta] Wow! Going in. 10 00:00:41,667 --> 00:00:45,295 And I remember my mom being so happy. 11 00:00:45,296 --> 00:00:47,131 - [Aletta] There's so many of them. - [Amie] I'm shaking. 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,884 [Jaymie] Now, looking back, I-- I get it. 13 00:00:50,301 --> 00:00:52,218 They put my mom through hell. 14 00:00:52,219 --> 00:00:54,263 - [Aletta] Oh, my God. - [Amie] Oh, my God. 15 00:00:55,765 --> 00:01:00,143 But you don't ever want to know people are living in the world 16 00:01:00,144 --> 00:01:03,397 faking cancer and stuff. So, for me, it was kind of, um, 17 00:01:03,981 --> 00:01:05,733 not something to be celebrated. 18 00:01:08,277 --> 00:01:09,570 [♪ music concludes] 19 00:01:11,113 --> 00:01:13,865 {\an8}I was like, "Okay, this is done. They're caught. This is over." 20 00:01:13,866 --> 00:01:15,575 [indistinct radio chatter] 21 00:01:15,576 --> 00:01:19,622 But it wasn't over. [laughs] Not even close. 22 00:01:20,664 --> 00:01:22,332 [♪ soft instrumental music playing] 23 00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:25,836 [indistinct radio chatter] 24 00:01:29,507 --> 00:01:31,133 {\an8}She's not under arrest at the moment. 25 00:01:33,844 --> 00:01:36,305 It just takes time for-- for stuff to happen. 26 00:01:40,684 --> 00:01:44,354 [Aletta] At the time, Jessa was back in my custody. 27 00:01:44,355 --> 00:01:46,899 I got her back abruptly 28 00:01:47,358 --> 00:01:49,609 because Amanda's family went on a cruise 29 00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:52,695 for Amanda's 30th birthday. And apparently, 30 00:01:52,696 --> 00:01:54,823 there was some heavy drinking on board, 31 00:01:54,824 --> 00:01:58,202 and some behaviors that made Jessa uncomfortable. 32 00:01:59,036 --> 00:02:01,121 And I got full physical legal custody back. 33 00:02:06,544 --> 00:02:10,046 After the raid, it was important for me to be completely, 34 00:02:10,047 --> 00:02:11,799 100% truthful with Jessa. 35 00:02:12,174 --> 00:02:14,384 And so, I told her that there's suspicion 36 00:02:14,385 --> 00:02:16,345 that Amanda does not have cancer. 37 00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:19,722 And at that point, she did know something was off 38 00:02:19,723 --> 00:02:22,268 because she had found a portion of an IV 39 00:02:22,601 --> 00:02:23,978 in her little brother's playroom. 40 00:02:26,021 --> 00:02:28,398 And so, Jessa texted Amanda about the raid 41 00:02:28,399 --> 00:02:29,858 and was asking questions. 42 00:02:29,859 --> 00:02:30,985 {\an8}[phone chimes] 43 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:36,322 {\an8}Aletta felt it was necessary to explain to Jessa 44 00:02:36,323 --> 00:02:37,783 {\an8}what had happened. 45 00:02:39,076 --> 00:02:42,662 {\an8}Amanda couldn't even tell Jessa the truth at that point. 46 00:02:42,663 --> 00:02:45,123 - [phone chimes] - [Nancy] It was very much like, 47 00:02:45,124 --> 00:02:46,708 "You don't know what you're talking about. 48 00:02:46,709 --> 00:02:50,212 "You're being fed lies. This is all your mom's doing." 49 00:02:50,796 --> 00:02:53,590 And Jessa knew that wasn't the case. 50 00:02:53,591 --> 00:02:56,301 And so, she pressed, you know, Amanda. 51 00:02:56,302 --> 00:02:57,136 [phone chimes] 52 00:02:58,762 --> 00:03:00,180 [keys clacking] 53 00:03:00,556 --> 00:03:01,807 {\an8}[phone chimes] 54 00:03:03,350 --> 00:03:06,478 {\an8}Amanda had got upset because I had discussed it with Jessa. 55 00:03:06,770 --> 00:03:08,313 But, you know, of course I have to. 56 00:03:08,314 --> 00:03:09,522 [phone chimes] 57 00:03:09,523 --> 00:03:11,859 [♪ tense instrumental music playing] 58 00:03:13,569 --> 00:03:14,612 {\an8}[phone chimes] 59 00:03:16,113 --> 00:03:18,197 I was very sad by the situation, 60 00:03:18,198 --> 00:03:19,992 and I wish it had never come to that. 61 00:03:20,409 --> 00:03:23,537 [phone chiming] 62 00:03:29,877 --> 00:03:32,588 [Amie] The emotional distress that Jessa had to go under, 63 00:03:33,547 --> 00:03:36,091 thinking that her stepmom was gonna die, 64 00:03:36,634 --> 00:03:39,470 {\an8}saying that she might have to go into surgery 65 00:03:40,012 --> 00:03:42,431 {\an8}to save Amanda's life, that's abuse. 66 00:03:44,516 --> 00:03:51,439 [Jaymie] Amanda told Jessa that... she and her brothers 67 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,234 were gonna have to get some of their bone marrow 68 00:03:54,693 --> 00:03:56,862 to possibly save Amanda's life. 69 00:03:57,404 --> 00:04:02,493 Now, not only are you lying, you're terrifying your children. 70 00:04:03,118 --> 00:04:04,995 [Amie] Imagine the two little ones... 71 00:04:06,664 --> 00:04:08,832 thinking that their mom's gonna die. 72 00:04:10,459 --> 00:04:14,338 Wow. The-- How can a mother do that? 73 00:04:17,383 --> 00:04:18,842 Then Cory, 74 00:04:19,176 --> 00:04:21,594 supposedly he went to the hospitals with her. 75 00:04:21,595 --> 00:04:23,055 He did treatments with her. 76 00:04:24,723 --> 00:04:28,935 She has an IV pole and IV items in the house. 77 00:04:28,936 --> 00:04:30,145 How could he not know? 78 00:04:35,567 --> 00:04:39,029 {\an8}He stood next to her crying to me. 79 00:04:39,905 --> 00:04:41,615 {\an8}He backed her up. 80 00:04:43,325 --> 00:04:47,412 [Jose] I think at some point, Cory believed her. 81 00:04:47,413 --> 00:04:50,457 And I think at some point, he knew it was a lie. 82 00:04:52,501 --> 00:04:56,504 Proving where that line is, is a harder go, 83 00:04:56,505 --> 00:04:58,173 because then you can say, 84 00:04:58,507 --> 00:05:00,676 "She fooled this entire congregation. 85 00:05:01,552 --> 00:05:02,845 "She fooled her mom. 86 00:05:04,346 --> 00:05:06,097 "Why is it far-fetched to fool a husband 87 00:05:06,098 --> 00:05:09,726 "who sees her with a shaved head and shivering in the bed 88 00:05:09,727 --> 00:05:11,895 - "and oxygen tubes?" - [monitor beeping] 89 00:05:14,398 --> 00:05:15,315 [♪ music concludes] 90 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,943 [birds chirping] 91 00:05:22,197 --> 00:05:26,701 {\an8}Literally hours after federal agents left her home... 92 00:05:26,702 --> 00:05:28,327 [keyboard keys clacking] 93 00:05:28,328 --> 00:05:30,246 ...Amanda posted on Facebook. 94 00:05:30,247 --> 00:05:31,748 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 95 00:05:31,749 --> 00:05:34,584 [Nancy] It was lymphoma cancer awareness month, 96 00:05:34,585 --> 00:05:38,297 and she's posting an old picture of her bald. 97 00:05:40,174 --> 00:05:43,009 I just couldn't believe what I was seeing. 98 00:05:43,010 --> 00:05:44,386 Nothing stopped her. 99 00:05:46,889 --> 00:05:49,474 {\an8}She told me that what she was 100 00:05:49,475 --> 00:05:52,144 {\an8}getting in trouble for was the tax evasion. 101 00:05:54,271 --> 00:05:57,106 [Charlie] Amanda told everyone that it's just all a mix-up 102 00:05:57,107 --> 00:05:58,691 to do with tax 'cause she didn't realize 103 00:05:58,692 --> 00:06:02,112 she had to pay tax on the money that people had gifted her. 104 00:06:03,113 --> 00:06:05,949 So, Amanda actually didn't hide away from it. 105 00:06:07,493 --> 00:06:10,579 But the police and the IRS investigating her 106 00:06:10,829 --> 00:06:11,955 weren't gonna go away. 107 00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:21,297 [Josh] My father-in-law, 108 00:06:21,298 --> 00:06:23,591 the senior pastor of Family Community Church, 109 00:06:23,592 --> 00:06:25,010 came to me privately and said, "Hey, 110 00:06:25,511 --> 00:06:27,637 "there's an investigation going on. I need to know. 111 00:06:27,638 --> 00:06:29,056 {\an8}"Does Amanda have cancer?" 112 00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:32,558 {\an8}And I said, I... "She says she does." 113 00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:34,728 And that's when he said, "I just caution you, 114 00:06:35,813 --> 00:06:39,899 "uh, to not give any more to Cory and Amanda." 115 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:43,319 Uh, he said, "We're not gonna be donating anything any further." 116 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,655 And that 117 00:06:45,197 --> 00:06:47,156 made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. 118 00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:50,993 Um, so many people read my blog and hear my story, 119 00:06:50,994 --> 00:06:54,873 and ask about my faith. Um, that's all God. 120 00:06:56,875 --> 00:06:59,461 We would see less and less of her at the church. 121 00:06:59,837 --> 00:07:02,589 She stopped coming, really, to the main service. 122 00:07:04,299 --> 00:07:07,052 My father-in-law loves his congregation. 123 00:07:07,928 --> 00:07:12,807 And anytime anyone's giving their testimony 124 00:07:12,808 --> 00:07:16,478 or sharing their faith, especially from the pulpit, 125 00:07:17,855 --> 00:07:20,774 he expects that it's genuine and authentic. 126 00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:24,610 Don't ignore Jesus because he is always there, 127 00:07:24,611 --> 00:07:27,155 and it would be unfortunate if he brought you your miracle, 128 00:07:27,156 --> 00:07:28,447 and you weren't watching. 129 00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:29,991 - [audience cheering] - [exhales sharply] 130 00:07:29,992 --> 00:07:31,117 [Josh] It was very painful 131 00:07:31,118 --> 00:07:33,035 to look at these videos and pictures 132 00:07:33,036 --> 00:07:37,206 and see somebody that claimed to be a person of faith 133 00:07:37,207 --> 00:07:40,502 give false testimony to a room full of believers. 134 00:07:41,503 --> 00:07:43,839 [Lindsey] She had thousands of people duped. 135 00:07:44,882 --> 00:07:49,177 I don't think, in that church, that there was one person 136 00:07:49,178 --> 00:07:51,263 standing in the background going, 137 00:07:52,264 --> 00:07:53,640 "Something doesn't add up." 138 00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:56,101 [Nancy] She doesn't care. 139 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,978 She doesn't care that people are looking into her. 140 00:07:58,979 --> 00:08:01,772 She was now away from the FCC church, 141 00:08:01,773 --> 00:08:03,233 and she wasn't gonna stop. 142 00:08:05,527 --> 00:08:08,196 And sure enough, someone said to me, 143 00:08:08,197 --> 00:08:10,865 "Well, you know, Amanda's now gonna be principal 144 00:08:10,866 --> 00:08:13,118 "at a elementary school in Gilroy." 145 00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:17,831 She moved 40 minutes away, 146 00:08:18,415 --> 00:08:21,335 and I just knew this school was gonna be her next target. 147 00:08:23,295 --> 00:08:25,255 - [♪ music fades] - [school bell ringing] 148 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,593 [♪ pensive instrumental music playing] 149 00:08:35,098 --> 00:08:37,516 [Charlie] When the police went after Amanda, 150 00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:39,478 she pulled away from the church. 151 00:08:40,771 --> 00:08:42,773 But she was very, very charming, 152 00:08:43,357 --> 00:08:47,486 {\an8}and Amanda used it to her advantage. 153 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,575 Amanda was teaching, 154 00:08:54,576 --> 00:08:57,370 and then, she was hired as a principal 155 00:08:57,371 --> 00:08:59,289 at a school called Pacific Point. 156 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:05,045 [cameraman] Interview Natalie, take one, A, B, C, common mark. 157 00:09:05,379 --> 00:09:09,508 {\an8}I am a parent at Pacific Point Christian School. 158 00:09:10,634 --> 00:09:13,302 My daughter attended Pacific Point 159 00:09:13,303 --> 00:09:14,680 when Amanda was principal. 160 00:09:18,684 --> 00:09:21,894 When she was first hired, everybody loved her. 161 00:09:21,895 --> 00:09:24,106 The kids loved her. My daughter adored her. 162 00:09:25,941 --> 00:09:30,904 She was charming, charismatic, seemed very caring. 163 00:09:31,154 --> 00:09:32,656 There were no red flags. 164 00:09:36,910 --> 00:09:40,454 {\an8}No one at that school would have had any idea 165 00:09:40,455 --> 00:09:42,332 that she was being investigated. 166 00:09:45,377 --> 00:09:46,670 [♪ music concludes] 167 00:09:47,212 --> 00:09:49,339 [♪ soft instrumental music playing] 168 00:09:51,675 --> 00:09:53,176 {\an8}Hi. [chuckles] 169 00:09:55,095 --> 00:09:58,932 {\an8}My son, James, was going into kindergarten. 170 00:10:00,183 --> 00:10:02,686 So, we went to Pac Point to take a tour. 171 00:10:03,437 --> 00:10:06,064 When we got there, we met Amanda Riley. 172 00:10:09,151 --> 00:10:12,195 My husband and myself thought she was so amazing. 173 00:10:14,364 --> 00:10:17,283 And we wanted to find a school that would accommodate us 174 00:10:17,284 --> 00:10:18,368 in our situation. 175 00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:22,455 Because of James' older brother, Jonathan, 176 00:10:22,456 --> 00:10:24,957 having Niemann-Pick's type C disease, 177 00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:27,044 we refer to it as childhood Alzheimer's, 178 00:10:27,377 --> 00:10:29,962 I had told her how we are in a clinical trial 179 00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,965 and have to go to all these different places. 180 00:10:32,966 --> 00:10:35,719 And because James is so young, he needs to come with us. 181 00:10:36,762 --> 00:10:38,221 And she understood. 182 00:10:40,766 --> 00:10:41,932 And then she had told us 183 00:10:41,933 --> 00:10:43,934 she was in remission from cancer. 184 00:10:43,935 --> 00:10:45,896 [♪ somber instrumental music playing] 185 00:10:46,438 --> 00:10:48,147 [Spencer-White] And at the end of our tour, 186 00:10:48,148 --> 00:10:51,943 she prayed with me and my husband, and Jonathan, 187 00:10:52,194 --> 00:10:54,571 and told him, "I understand how you feel." 188 00:10:55,572 --> 00:10:57,115 "I went through treatment as well." 189 00:11:00,243 --> 00:11:03,330 I knew it was only a matter of time till she started, 190 00:11:04,498 --> 00:11:06,165 you know, "I'm so sick. 191 00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:08,627 "My cancer's back, I need money, my family." 192 00:11:10,212 --> 00:11:13,632 And that's exactly what happened fairly quickly. 193 00:11:17,844 --> 00:11:20,971 There was a fundraiser for another staff member 194 00:11:20,972 --> 00:11:24,601 at Pac Point that had her cancer come back. 195 00:11:26,436 --> 00:11:28,271 And soon after that, 196 00:11:28,647 --> 00:11:31,107 Amanda announced to the community at the school 197 00:11:31,108 --> 00:11:33,026 that her cancer was also back, 198 00:11:33,527 --> 00:11:35,987 and that she was going to 199 00:11:36,238 --> 00:11:38,782 be going through more chemo and more treatments. 200 00:11:42,953 --> 00:11:46,415 Miss Cindy was sick, and you could see it. 201 00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:52,002 But she worked as long as she could 202 00:11:52,003 --> 00:11:54,089 because she loved our kids so much. 203 00:11:57,676 --> 00:12:00,637 We learned about Amanda's health pretty quickly on, 204 00:12:01,012 --> 00:12:03,222 and the kids at our school prayed for her. 205 00:12:03,223 --> 00:12:04,307 They made her little gifts. 206 00:12:07,144 --> 00:12:10,397 It was her first year, but everybody supported her, 207 00:12:11,398 --> 00:12:13,024 and wanted to help. 208 00:12:18,822 --> 00:12:20,781 So, the school sent out the emails 209 00:12:20,782 --> 00:12:22,074 that they were doing this fundraiser 210 00:12:22,075 --> 00:12:24,411 for Miss Cindy and Miss Riley. 211 00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:28,331 [Natalie] Gilroy is an amazing community. 212 00:12:28,874 --> 00:12:30,041 The people are generous. 213 00:12:31,376 --> 00:12:33,628 People would write checks. They would give cash. 214 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,716 Teachers went to go visit Amanda at the hospital. 215 00:12:40,594 --> 00:12:45,055 The school... did what I think Amanda expected, 216 00:12:45,056 --> 00:12:47,893 which was to fundraise for her as well. 217 00:12:48,602 --> 00:12:50,479 And all the money that they raised 218 00:12:50,896 --> 00:12:53,398 over the next months and year, 219 00:12:53,732 --> 00:12:57,152 um, was split between Miss Cindy and-- and Amanda. 220 00:12:59,529 --> 00:13:03,115 I noticed one of the families she was involved with was, 221 00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:07,828 uh, Rebecca Spencer's family, and Rebecca's son, Jonathan, 222 00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:11,415 who was a young man that had a terminal illness. 223 00:13:11,416 --> 00:13:12,667 And I reached out. 224 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,252 [Spencer-White] I got a phone call from Nancy. 225 00:13:15,253 --> 00:13:18,255 And honestly, when she first called me, 226 00:13:18,256 --> 00:13:20,258 I thought, "This lady's crazy." 227 00:13:22,219 --> 00:13:26,056 But then as I talked to her, then I got angry because... 228 00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:31,645 my son is only alive because of people's donations. 229 00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:35,314 And for somebody to lie and say that they have a disease, 230 00:13:35,315 --> 00:13:39,110 and they don't have it, this is beyond disgusting. 231 00:13:41,821 --> 00:13:43,447 She prayed with Jonathan, 232 00:13:43,448 --> 00:13:45,366 and said, "I understand how it is 233 00:13:45,367 --> 00:13:47,953 "to have a terminal illness, a disease." 234 00:13:49,454 --> 00:13:50,872 And, no, she didn't. 235 00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:54,084 She didn't go through what Jonathan goes through. 236 00:13:59,047 --> 00:14:01,341 [Natalie] Um, Miss Cindy was a wonderful person. 237 00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:06,346 She had a tragic story. 238 00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:12,142 I was there, uh, with her the day before she died, 239 00:14:12,143 --> 00:14:16,106 my husband and I. And she is so missed. 240 00:14:22,362 --> 00:14:26,199 So, when we all found out Amanda was being investigated, 241 00:14:26,950 --> 00:14:30,287 we were heartbroken for her kids and for all of the victims, 242 00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:33,747 but we were also angry that Miss Cindy died... 243 00:14:33,748 --> 00:14:35,374 [♪ music concludes] 244 00:14:35,375 --> 00:14:38,837 ...and that those kids grieved for her, 245 00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:42,173 and that she put our kids through torture. 246 00:14:45,844 --> 00:14:47,219 [Nancy] It was at that point 247 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:49,597 some of my colleagues at my office 248 00:14:49,598 --> 00:14:52,641 made the decision to reach out at the school. 249 00:14:52,642 --> 00:14:54,143 [♪ upbeat electronic music playing] 250 00:14:54,144 --> 00:14:56,145 [Nancy] "Hey, I wanna know more about your principal. 251 00:14:56,146 --> 00:14:58,064 "I may be sending my child there." 252 00:14:59,524 --> 00:15:02,693 Amanda, I think, quickly figured out it was, uh, 253 00:15:02,694 --> 00:15:04,571 somehow related to me. 254 00:15:06,990 --> 00:15:09,159 And she filed the restraining order against me. 255 00:15:11,745 --> 00:15:12,579 [♪ music concludes] 256 00:15:13,705 --> 00:15:15,081 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 257 00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:26,216 [Nancy] It was a Friday night on a holiday weekend, 258 00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:27,761 and I came home, 259 00:15:28,261 --> 00:15:29,970 went to get the mail out of the mailbox, 260 00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:34,183 {\an8}and there was just all these papers stuffed in there. 261 00:15:34,184 --> 00:15:36,143 I thought it was junk mail, and I'm pulling through, 262 00:15:36,144 --> 00:15:38,479 pulling all these papers out, and I see Amanda Riley, 263 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,773 and I see my name, and I'm like, "What the hell is this?" 264 00:15:40,774 --> 00:15:43,568 And I-- I start to realize it was court papers. 265 00:15:44,986 --> 00:15:48,281 Amanda had filed a restraining order against me. 266 00:15:49,366 --> 00:15:51,867 In the paperwork to the courts, 267 00:15:51,868 --> 00:15:56,080 she claimed I was calling her workplace hundreds of times. 268 00:15:56,081 --> 00:15:59,333 She was claiming that I got her fired at her past jobs, 269 00:15:59,334 --> 00:16:00,585 that I got Cory fired. 270 00:16:02,253 --> 00:16:04,964 She claimed I was taking on these pseudonyms 271 00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:07,758 and reaching out to random people 272 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:09,134 accusing her of things 273 00:16:09,135 --> 00:16:11,221 and harassing her on every level. 274 00:16:13,098 --> 00:16:16,183 It took months and thousands of dollars 275 00:16:16,184 --> 00:16:19,144 to get to the point where we could finally 276 00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:21,022 have our day in court. 277 00:16:21,481 --> 00:16:25,235 I testified. Amanda testified. Cory testified. 278 00:16:26,444 --> 00:16:28,946 Cory testified that he was by his wife's side 279 00:16:28,947 --> 00:16:31,533 at appointments for the last five years. 280 00:16:33,076 --> 00:16:36,328 But as a member of the press and doing, uh, 281 00:16:36,329 --> 00:16:37,914 this for a news organization, 282 00:16:38,248 --> 00:16:39,833 this was a First Amendment issue. 283 00:16:41,292 --> 00:16:44,211 [Charlie] Nancy was in the right of, 284 00:16:44,212 --> 00:16:46,046 basically, the freedom of press. 285 00:16:46,047 --> 00:16:47,048 [♪ music concludes] 286 00:16:48,174 --> 00:16:49,634 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 287 00:16:50,593 --> 00:16:52,846 [Charlie] But it became so personal for Nancy. 288 00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:54,680 And then, you've got Amanda 289 00:16:54,681 --> 00:16:59,017 {\an8}with the same tenacity and determination, 290 00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,104 {\an8}to then quiet Nancy down. 291 00:17:05,859 --> 00:17:08,111 [Arlette] Subjects in criminal investigations 292 00:17:08,945 --> 00:17:12,407 {\an8}will often say that it's a mistake or a misunderstanding. 293 00:17:13,283 --> 00:17:14,992 I just keep going on with my case 294 00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:16,702 and get the proper evidence 295 00:17:16,703 --> 00:17:18,663 for her to eventually get charged. 296 00:17:19,664 --> 00:17:21,248 It took a long time, 297 00:17:21,249 --> 00:17:26,379 but the good thing was that it's still happening. 298 00:17:26,755 --> 00:17:32,217 {\an8}It's just gonna show, you know, how brazen this person is, 299 00:17:32,218 --> 00:17:35,096 {\an8}even after they know it's at this level. 300 00:17:37,432 --> 00:17:39,057 {\an8}[♪ music fades] 301 00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:41,394 {\an8}[Nancy] I remember when that press release went out, 302 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,855 that Amanda Riley had been indicted. 303 00:17:44,856 --> 00:17:47,691 These were the charges, and here's what she did. 304 00:17:47,692 --> 00:17:48,984 [♪ tense instrumental music playing] 305 00:17:48,985 --> 00:17:50,903 [Nancy] And places picked up on the story 306 00:17:50,904 --> 00:17:54,907 because it's not every day you get a headline 307 00:17:54,908 --> 00:17:58,286 that someone was faking cancer for eight years, 308 00:17:58,828 --> 00:18:01,206 taking tens of thousands of dollars. 309 00:18:01,790 --> 00:18:05,793 At that point I knew also that all the victims, 310 00:18:05,794 --> 00:18:09,254 if they donated through the Support Amanda site, 311 00:18:09,255 --> 00:18:14,635 were receiving a letter saying, "You are the victim of a fraud." 312 00:18:14,636 --> 00:18:15,844 [notification chimes] 313 00:18:15,845 --> 00:18:17,930 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 314 00:18:17,931 --> 00:18:19,890 {\an8}I had a little email thing flash 315 00:18:19,891 --> 00:18:21,893 {\an8}and it just said, "Department of Justice." 316 00:18:22,477 --> 00:18:23,853 And I read through it. 317 00:18:25,355 --> 00:18:26,648 I just remember going cold. 318 00:18:27,524 --> 00:18:28,733 I started Googling it. 319 00:18:30,485 --> 00:18:31,945 I was like, "Wait, what?" 320 00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:35,614 I've given, on the low side, 20,000, 321 00:18:35,615 --> 00:18:37,533 on the high side, 30,000. 322 00:18:37,534 --> 00:18:40,787 And that's in actual cash. That does not include gifts. 323 00:18:42,831 --> 00:18:45,792 I felt like I w-- was owed an explanation. 324 00:18:47,836 --> 00:18:49,295 So, I reached out to her mom. 325 00:18:50,672 --> 00:18:53,633 I asked Peggy, I was like, "Peggy, like, what do you know?" 326 00:18:54,092 --> 00:18:57,177 And she says, "Rebecca, you know Amanda has cancer. 327 00:18:57,178 --> 00:18:58,554 "You know Amanda's innocent. 328 00:18:58,555 --> 00:18:59,848 "I was at those doctor's appointments." 329 00:19:04,477 --> 00:19:06,229 And that was all I had to hear. 330 00:19:06,479 --> 00:19:07,522 {\an8}[phone chimes] 331 00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,860 {\an8}Rebecca couldn't get her head around 332 00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:14,946 that Amanda was capable of something like this. 333 00:19:17,115 --> 00:19:18,908 [keys clacking] 334 00:19:19,284 --> 00:19:20,826 [Cafiero] Amanda, within the next couple of days, 335 00:19:20,827 --> 00:19:22,327 reached out to me, and she's like, 336 00:19:22,328 --> 00:19:23,871 "I'm so sorry that, like, 337 00:19:23,872 --> 00:19:25,080 "you're even being brought up in this. 338 00:19:25,081 --> 00:19:27,000 "It's... This is, like, my nightmare." 339 00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:31,504 And so I said, like, "Amanda, listen, I believe you." 340 00:19:32,088 --> 00:19:34,798 "I am trying to answer a lot of people right now 341 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:38,093 "in my life that are challenging me with this. 342 00:19:38,094 --> 00:19:40,429 "Like, can you give me anything?" 343 00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:43,640 {\an8}- [phone chimes] - [keys clacking] 344 00:19:43,641 --> 00:19:45,559 {\an8}And she said, "Well, I have an appointment. 345 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,228 "Y-- You can come with me." 346 00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:49,063 And I was like, "That's amazing." 347 00:19:49,856 --> 00:19:52,901 And she texted me the day before. 348 00:19:54,319 --> 00:19:56,445 And she's like, "Unfortunately, because of all the protocols 349 00:19:56,446 --> 00:19:58,697 "right now with COVID, you're not gonna be able 350 00:19:58,698 --> 00:20:00,657 "to come in with me, but I can FaceTime you." 351 00:20:00,658 --> 00:20:02,367 And I was like, "Totally understandable. 352 00:20:02,368 --> 00:20:05,329 "That totally makes sense." Um, and so, she FaceTimed me. 353 00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:06,789 [phone ringing] 354 00:20:08,249 --> 00:20:10,751 And she had on one of the little medical hats, 355 00:20:10,752 --> 00:20:13,462 and was wearing a mask. And I could see a nurse 356 00:20:13,463 --> 00:20:14,963 in the background kind of moving around. 357 00:20:14,964 --> 00:20:18,091 And I could see the... the metal from the IV. 358 00:20:18,092 --> 00:20:20,510 And you could see the IV in her arm. 359 00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:22,512 And I'm like, "Okay, she's... [chuckles] 360 00:20:22,513 --> 00:20:23,847 "...she's having treatment." 361 00:20:23,848 --> 00:20:26,558 I even took a picture when she FaceTimed me, 362 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:28,185 and I sent it to my friends and family. 363 00:20:28,186 --> 00:20:30,687 And I was like, "Look, she is in treatment right now." 364 00:20:30,688 --> 00:20:32,815 Like, "This is all going to get blown over." 365 00:20:34,025 --> 00:20:37,528 I had no doubt about it at all. I mean, to a fault. 366 00:20:38,821 --> 00:20:40,322 [producer] At what point in the process 367 00:20:40,323 --> 00:20:41,741 did you call [bleep]? 368 00:20:42,158 --> 00:20:43,701 [chuckles] When she pled guilty. 369 00:20:45,495 --> 00:20:46,537 [♪ music concludes] 370 00:20:47,121 --> 00:20:48,873 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 371 00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:58,716 [Lindsey] After I got the notice from the Department of Justice, 372 00:20:59,217 --> 00:21:01,719 {\an8}I let Amanda know, "Hey, 373 00:21:02,512 --> 00:21:05,723 {\an8}"I was just given this notice that you faked cancer." 374 00:21:11,771 --> 00:21:13,147 It was all so surreal. 375 00:21:14,023 --> 00:21:16,275 {\an8}But, looking back... 376 00:21:17,986 --> 00:21:21,113 there are things that... [inhales sharply] 377 00:21:21,114 --> 00:21:23,366 ...I wish I would have paid attention to. 378 00:21:25,118 --> 00:21:29,706 I knew she was getting a port. There were posts with pictures. 379 00:21:30,623 --> 00:21:34,627 I knew it was infected. I saw the bandage on her chest. 380 00:21:35,294 --> 00:21:39,382 And then, there was never any scar tissue. 381 00:21:40,133 --> 00:21:42,926 And looking back, I just think, 382 00:21:42,927 --> 00:21:44,971 "How could I have dismissed that?" 383 00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:51,393 But the narrative that she was dying, 384 00:21:51,394 --> 00:21:53,186 and a miracle was just so much stronger 385 00:21:53,187 --> 00:21:55,481 than any doubt could have been. 386 00:22:04,615 --> 00:22:07,994 {\an8}So, once a criminal complaint was filed on Amanda... 387 00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:12,331 she was charged with wire fraud. 388 00:22:14,584 --> 00:22:18,253 And she was charged with a bankruptcy fraud charge. 389 00:22:18,254 --> 00:22:20,672 And it was basically, you know, 390 00:22:20,673 --> 00:22:22,674 false information on a bankruptcy filing. 391 00:22:22,675 --> 00:22:24,302 And it was the fact that 392 00:22:25,219 --> 00:22:27,972 they submitted this filing saying she had cancer, 393 00:22:28,765 --> 00:22:31,601 and the medical records proved that she did not. 394 00:22:34,687 --> 00:22:36,773 [Nancy] Cory may not have been charged, 395 00:22:37,899 --> 00:22:41,444 {\an8}but it doesn't change the fact that I think he knew all along. 396 00:22:44,363 --> 00:22:45,614 [Arlette] When you have a husband and wife, 397 00:22:45,615 --> 00:22:47,407 there's a-- a privilege. 398 00:22:47,408 --> 00:22:50,369 And so, how could we prove that Cory was part of it? 399 00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:52,621 The only person who'd be able to show us 400 00:22:52,622 --> 00:22:53,831 would-- would have been Amanda. 401 00:22:55,291 --> 00:22:58,044 [♪ tense instrumental music playing] 402 00:22:59,420 --> 00:23:03,591 {\an8}Initially, Amanda said she's not guilty. 403 00:23:05,802 --> 00:23:09,221 What I was told was that Amanda didn't wanna plead 404 00:23:09,222 --> 00:23:11,224 to the bankruptcy fraud charge. 405 00:23:12,016 --> 00:23:16,520 But it's not uncommon, uh, that when you plead, 406 00:23:16,521 --> 00:23:19,398 that if there are other charges, some of them could be dropped. 407 00:23:21,901 --> 00:23:26,280 [Lindsey] I attended every single Zoom hearing. 408 00:23:26,614 --> 00:23:30,576 And it was on my calendar as "Cancer Scam Zoom Party." 409 00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:34,872 There was a lot of back-and-forth 410 00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:37,708 that prolonged her pleading guilty. 411 00:23:40,503 --> 00:23:41,962 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 412 00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:43,256 [Arlette] She pled guilty... 413 00:23:44,966 --> 00:23:47,260 and it was a relief because the truth came out. 414 00:23:51,514 --> 00:23:54,308 So, I just felt this satisfaction. 415 00:23:56,727 --> 00:23:58,271 [♪ music fades] 416 00:24:01,149 --> 00:24:04,318 [♪ soft rhythmic music playing] 417 00:24:11,159 --> 00:24:14,578 {\an8}The sentencing hearing, it was really, uh, 418 00:24:14,579 --> 00:24:17,414 {\an8}a wonderful day, really, for justice. 419 00:24:17,415 --> 00:24:20,668 - [indistinct chatter] - [Nancy] It was crowded. 420 00:24:22,003 --> 00:24:25,006 Amanda was there with Cory, with her parents. 421 00:24:25,882 --> 00:24:30,553 There was a lot of people there that had been scammed by Amanda. 422 00:24:32,013 --> 00:24:34,097 [Lindsey] Her sentencing was the very first time 423 00:24:34,098 --> 00:24:35,933 I had been in a courtroom. 424 00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:40,270 And I decided to take the opportunity 425 00:24:40,271 --> 00:24:42,523 to give a impact statement. 426 00:24:51,365 --> 00:24:54,952 "Amanda, I first met you in a church. 427 00:24:55,369 --> 00:24:58,038 "You were the poor, young Christian woman, 428 00:24:58,039 --> 00:24:59,707 "fighting a battle undeserved. 429 00:24:59,957 --> 00:25:01,333 "I couldn't do much, 430 00:25:01,334 --> 00:25:03,377 "but I could pour my blood out for you. 431 00:25:04,253 --> 00:25:05,837 {\an8}"As a lifelong atheist, 432 00:25:05,838 --> 00:25:07,965 {\an8}"the first time I prayed to God, it was for you." 433 00:25:10,009 --> 00:25:11,010 And... 434 00:25:12,428 --> 00:25:16,349 she gave me a look, as I read this to her. 435 00:25:17,558 --> 00:25:21,187 We were wearing masks, but her eyes said... 436 00:25:23,189 --> 00:25:24,106 "I'm so sorry." 437 00:25:27,276 --> 00:25:32,573 And isn't it so true of a narcissist that she wasn't? 438 00:25:35,743 --> 00:25:37,702 [Lisa] I wanted to make sure the judge knew 439 00:25:37,703 --> 00:25:39,288 that she had done this before, 440 00:25:40,164 --> 00:25:42,666 and that she would absolutely do this again, 441 00:25:42,667 --> 00:25:43,751 given the chance. 442 00:25:44,877 --> 00:25:45,962 "Your Honor, 443 00:25:46,295 --> 00:25:48,463 "two years before she publicly claimed 444 00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,174 "to first be diagnosed, 445 00:25:50,591 --> 00:25:53,177 "she told me and my husband that she had cancer. 446 00:25:54,053 --> 00:25:57,431 "They manipulated our emotions to get what they wanted, 447 00:25:57,765 --> 00:25:59,350 "attention and money. 448 00:26:00,810 --> 00:26:01,935 "Years later, I learned that 449 00:26:01,936 --> 00:26:03,604 "Amanda and Cory were at it again, 450 00:26:03,896 --> 00:26:05,648 "scamming on an even larger scale." 451 00:26:07,858 --> 00:26:10,318 [Aletta] When I was up there, I was shaking so bad 452 00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:13,029 {\an8}that my husband was literally holding me tight 453 00:26:13,030 --> 00:26:15,408 {\an8}to stop me from shaking so I could read the paper. 454 00:26:17,618 --> 00:26:20,329 "My daughter believed that her stepmom was dying." 455 00:26:21,414 --> 00:26:22,664 "How Amanda Riley could do this 456 00:26:22,665 --> 00:26:25,041 "to a young girl is beyond disgusting. 457 00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:26,043 "It's abusive." 458 00:26:27,336 --> 00:26:29,213 [inhales sharply] "This was truly a nightmare. 459 00:26:29,797 --> 00:26:31,090 "And it has never stopped." 460 00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:35,051 {\an8}[Jaymie] I couldn't find the strength 461 00:26:35,052 --> 00:26:37,805 {\an8}to get up in that moment, but I did write something. 462 00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:42,351 [exhales deeply] "Do you remember me, Amanda? 463 00:26:43,477 --> 00:26:45,688 "I was the little girl with barely any hair. 464 00:26:48,232 --> 00:26:50,442 "You came over and taught me how to dance. 465 00:26:50,443 --> 00:26:53,821 "I was dying. [sniffles] You were my friend. 466 00:26:54,947 --> 00:26:56,490 "Do you remember me, Amanda? 467 00:26:56,782 --> 00:26:58,784 "I was the young woman. [sniffles] 468 00:26:59,869 --> 00:27:01,536 "A group of us cancer survivors 469 00:27:01,537 --> 00:27:04,332 "and yourself stood out on the field. 470 00:27:04,832 --> 00:27:06,625 "You looked over to me, and you smiled. 471 00:27:07,585 --> 00:27:08,835 "I can't help but wonder 472 00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:10,463 "what was going through your mind. 473 00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:13,798 "While you have taken so much from so many people, 474 00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:15,967 "you cannot take my strength. [sniffles] 475 00:27:15,968 --> 00:27:17,635 "I have been through a lot 476 00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:20,181 "and continue to heal to this day, 477 00:27:20,765 --> 00:27:22,808 "but I am a proud cancer survivor." 478 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:23,934 [sniffles] 479 00:27:26,145 --> 00:27:27,730 She likely won't ever hear it. 480 00:27:28,397 --> 00:27:32,318 But putting everything down on paper, um, 481 00:27:33,152 --> 00:27:35,529 felt very freeing. 482 00:27:38,491 --> 00:27:41,035 [Charlie] And then, Amanda gave her statement. 483 00:27:43,371 --> 00:27:45,121 [♪ dramatic electronic music playing] 484 00:27:45,122 --> 00:27:47,832 [actor as Amanda] This is the worst thing I've ever done 485 00:27:47,833 --> 00:27:50,461 and the worst mistake I could have made. 486 00:27:50,753 --> 00:27:53,005 [Jaymie] She didn't have any remorse. 487 00:27:53,339 --> 00:27:54,839 [actor as Amanda] I have been dealing with... 488 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,424 [Jaymie] I remember her saying, 489 00:27:56,425 --> 00:27:58,552 "I'm so sorry that this happened." 490 00:27:59,387 --> 00:28:01,388 You should be sorry you did this, 491 00:28:01,389 --> 00:28:03,099 that you hurt these people. 492 00:28:03,933 --> 00:28:05,350 She didn't care. 493 00:28:05,351 --> 00:28:08,061 She... She was sorry that she got caught. 494 00:28:08,062 --> 00:28:10,230 [actor as Amanda] I'm here to accept responsibility... 495 00:28:10,231 --> 00:28:12,232 [Aletta] She never admitted to faking cancer 496 00:28:12,233 --> 00:28:13,484 in her statement. 497 00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:15,652 She was more worried 498 00:28:15,653 --> 00:28:17,780 about herself and how much time she was gonna do. 499 00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:23,827 Eighteen months was the recommended sentence, 500 00:28:23,828 --> 00:28:25,955 and I certainly didn't think that was enough. 501 00:28:27,790 --> 00:28:29,208 And neither did the judge. 502 00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:32,962 [Charlie] When the judge spoke... 503 00:28:34,588 --> 00:28:36,757 the whole courtroom gasped. 504 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,801 [♪ music concludes] 505 00:28:40,845 --> 00:28:42,596 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 506 00:28:50,396 --> 00:28:51,439 The judge really... 507 00:28:52,648 --> 00:28:54,608 {\an8}really understood what this case was about. 508 00:28:58,112 --> 00:29:01,323 And how dangerous someone like Amanda could be. 509 00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:13,501 This is part of the statement that the judge gave 510 00:29:13,502 --> 00:29:15,337 during Amanda's sentencing. [inhales sharply] 511 00:29:17,673 --> 00:29:20,300 "In considering the seriousness of the crime, 512 00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:22,970 "there is no doubt this is a very serious crime. 513 00:29:23,471 --> 00:29:25,847 "I have to further consider public safety 514 00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:27,600 "and the need for deterrence. 515 00:29:28,851 --> 00:29:32,312 "I do find the public to be at a significant risk from you. 516 00:29:32,313 --> 00:29:34,356 "I do believe that this will happen again. 517 00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:39,027 "I will impose an upward variance 518 00:29:39,028 --> 00:29:40,612 "of the guideline sentence, 519 00:29:40,613 --> 00:29:42,907 "and I will sentence you to 60 months in prison." 520 00:29:48,746 --> 00:29:49,954 [♪ music fades] 521 00:29:49,955 --> 00:29:51,790 [♪ upbeat rhythmic music playing] 522 00:29:53,125 --> 00:29:54,460 [Nancy] We were stunned. 523 00:29:55,753 --> 00:29:58,254 And you're quickly calculating... [chuckles] 524 00:29:58,255 --> 00:30:00,758 ...what that meant. That meant five years. 525 00:30:02,718 --> 00:30:05,970 The judge also ordered Amanda to pay restitution, 526 00:30:05,971 --> 00:30:07,598 which I think is fantastic. 527 00:30:09,558 --> 00:30:11,559 [Lisa] One of the things that really struck me 528 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,145 that the judge said was... 529 00:30:14,396 --> 00:30:17,733 {\an8}that she was giving her a stiff sentence 530 00:30:18,234 --> 00:30:20,694 because she was gonna do it again. 531 00:30:21,487 --> 00:30:23,489 If she didn't have a stiff sentence, 532 00:30:24,073 --> 00:30:25,533 she would do it again. 533 00:30:27,201 --> 00:30:28,619 [♪ music concludes] 534 00:30:30,246 --> 00:30:33,123 - [♪ soft rhythmic music playing] - [indistinct chatter] 535 00:30:34,792 --> 00:30:36,751 [Charlie] After Amanda was sentenced, 536 00:30:36,752 --> 00:30:39,880 I really wanted to try and approach her. 537 00:30:40,214 --> 00:30:42,091 And I waited for everybody to leave. 538 00:30:44,218 --> 00:30:46,387 And then Amanda did come out with her lawyer. 539 00:30:47,638 --> 00:30:50,265 So, I followed them... [chuckles softly] 540 00:30:50,266 --> 00:30:51,934 around the side of the courtroom. 541 00:30:53,060 --> 00:30:56,104 Amanda, sorry to disturb you. Um, I'm Charlie. 542 00:30:56,105 --> 00:30:57,523 I just wanted to give you my card. 543 00:30:58,190 --> 00:31:01,484 And she took my card, and then, 544 00:31:01,485 --> 00:31:03,695 I didn't give her a chance to speak. 545 00:31:03,696 --> 00:31:05,363 She kind of like went, "Oh, thank you." 546 00:31:05,364 --> 00:31:06,448 And then, I walked off. 547 00:31:08,117 --> 00:31:09,367 Later that night, 548 00:31:09,368 --> 00:31:12,120 I got a text message from Amanda. 549 00:31:12,121 --> 00:31:13,247 [phone notification chimes] 550 00:31:16,458 --> 00:31:19,461 "Hi, Charlie, thank you for reaching out to me 551 00:31:20,671 --> 00:31:22,380 "in the way that you did. 552 00:31:22,381 --> 00:31:25,342 "You were kind, polite and courteous." 553 00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,388 And then she said to me, 554 00:31:30,472 --> 00:31:33,434 "Let me know if you want to talk." 555 00:31:34,268 --> 00:31:35,768 So, I replied. 556 00:31:35,769 --> 00:31:38,606 And then, that's when we started to build a relationship. 557 00:31:40,357 --> 00:31:44,736 This went on from September 2022, 558 00:31:44,737 --> 00:31:46,946 right through to the day that I released the podcast, 559 00:31:46,947 --> 00:31:48,824 which was May 2023. 560 00:31:51,619 --> 00:31:54,163 Hey, Scamanda listeners, it's Charlie here. 561 00:31:55,497 --> 00:31:58,041 Amanda couldn't listen to the podcast in prison, 562 00:31:58,042 --> 00:32:00,293 but Cory and her mum listened 563 00:32:00,294 --> 00:32:02,420 and told her that I was objective 564 00:32:02,421 --> 00:32:04,256 in the way that I told the story. 565 00:32:09,178 --> 00:32:10,512 I was happy to hear that. 566 00:32:10,888 --> 00:32:12,305 And I've been building that trust, 567 00:32:12,306 --> 00:32:15,100 hoping that she'll decide to put more of her story out there. 568 00:32:18,062 --> 00:32:20,105 {\an8}[traffic whizzing] 569 00:32:23,901 --> 00:32:25,944 [♪ soft rhythmic music playing] 570 00:32:28,155 --> 00:32:30,990 All right. [exhales, clicks tongue] 571 00:32:30,991 --> 00:32:33,993 I'm just waiting to do a video call 572 00:32:33,994 --> 00:32:35,453 with Amanda in prison. 573 00:32:35,454 --> 00:32:37,414 And I've got three minutes to go. 574 00:32:40,376 --> 00:32:44,671 She's agreed to speak to me, but for it not to be recorded. 575 00:32:44,672 --> 00:32:47,507 So, I'm gonna go and have a conversation with her, 576 00:32:47,508 --> 00:32:51,261 and then I will report back, see what she says. 577 00:33:02,106 --> 00:33:03,315 Let's just wait. 578 00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:08,654 Hi, Amanda. 579 00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:10,864 [♪ music concludes] 580 00:33:12,032 --> 00:33:14,201 [♪ somber instrumental music playing] 581 00:33:24,461 --> 00:33:26,170 {\an8}[sighs] Gosh, I don't even know where to start. 582 00:33:26,171 --> 00:33:28,631 {\an8}So, we had a 25-minute conversation. 583 00:33:28,632 --> 00:33:32,261 She told me that, um, Cory and her are divorcing. 584 00:33:34,763 --> 00:33:37,641 We talked about Cory. 585 00:33:38,726 --> 00:33:42,228 Amanda said that a lot of the money that she, um, 586 00:33:42,229 --> 00:33:45,273 raised through saying she had cancer 587 00:33:45,274 --> 00:33:49,235 actually was spent on Cory's divorce to Aletta 588 00:33:49,236 --> 00:33:53,073 and child custody, and child support for Jessa. 589 00:33:55,784 --> 00:33:59,120 Amanda got really upset at one point in the conversation 590 00:33:59,121 --> 00:34:00,038 about her children. 591 00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:03,000 It seemed very genuine. 592 00:34:04,334 --> 00:34:08,130 She was really crying and very, very upset, sobbing. 593 00:34:09,131 --> 00:34:10,339 She said she is sorry 594 00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:13,135 and she does wanna take accountability, and... 595 00:34:13,552 --> 00:34:15,428 But she... It-- You know, she looked well. 596 00:34:15,429 --> 00:34:17,263 That was one thing that surprised me. 597 00:34:17,264 --> 00:34:19,515 She looks well. And she is st-- 598 00:34:19,516 --> 00:34:21,852 still saying that she's got health problems. 599 00:34:22,686 --> 00:34:25,062 I honestly don't know... [chuckles] 600 00:34:25,063 --> 00:34:27,357 - ...um, what I think about that. - [♪ music fades] 601 00:34:29,610 --> 00:34:31,527 I don't know. I d-- I don't... 602 00:34:31,528 --> 00:34:34,156 I honestly don't know whether that's true or not. 603 00:34:35,324 --> 00:34:37,117 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 604 00:34:39,620 --> 00:34:42,997 {\an8}When you're the victim of a con or a scam, 605 00:34:42,998 --> 00:34:44,207 {\an8}or someone lying to you, like, 606 00:34:44,208 --> 00:34:46,459 {\an8}you feel like you should have seen it. 607 00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:48,962 You should have recognized it, 608 00:34:49,296 --> 00:34:54,467 and it makes you feel less terribly, um, 609 00:34:54,468 --> 00:34:57,179 when there were other people that went through it as well. 610 00:34:59,014 --> 00:35:00,766 [Charlie] What you are about to hear 611 00:35:01,058 --> 00:35:02,392 is a true story. 612 00:35:03,352 --> 00:35:05,938 [Nancy] Doing the podcast, it was a great experience. 613 00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:10,566 {\an8}I knew that the story was going to resonate 614 00:35:10,567 --> 00:35:12,152 {\an8}with a lot of people. 615 00:35:12,736 --> 00:35:16,782 But I was really shocked at the response that we got. 616 00:35:18,242 --> 00:35:19,451 {\an8}- [Dermot] Scamanda. - Scamanda. 617 00:35:19,827 --> 00:35:21,203 {\an8}-Scamanda. - Scamanda. 618 00:35:21,578 --> 00:35:23,747 People were talking about it all over the news, 619 00:35:24,414 --> 00:35:27,626 over social media, posting about it. 620 00:35:28,043 --> 00:35:30,878 {\an8}Amanda has a huge problem. She's a liar. 621 00:35:30,879 --> 00:35:32,464 {\an8}Who would do something like this? 622 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,007 The story is completely unhinged. 623 00:35:35,008 --> 00:35:37,093 [overlapping chatter] 624 00:35:37,094 --> 00:35:39,178 [Nancy] And it was such a great feeling to know, 625 00:35:39,179 --> 00:35:41,472 "Okay, this is resonating with people." 626 00:35:41,473 --> 00:35:44,184 And it was great to give a voice 627 00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:47,895 to so many of the people I had been in contact with, 628 00:35:47,896 --> 00:35:49,231 over the years. 629 00:35:52,568 --> 00:35:55,028 [Cafiero] Hearing all of these other pieces, 630 00:35:55,612 --> 00:35:56,947 it made me not feel alone, 631 00:35:57,823 --> 00:35:59,992 because other people had been affected as well. 632 00:36:01,368 --> 00:36:02,953 But I went through, like, 633 00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:06,456 more than a decade of history with this family. 634 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,291 I don't want to say I always felt "Special," 635 00:36:08,292 --> 00:36:10,377 but I felt like I was owed an explanation. 636 00:36:11,503 --> 00:36:13,922 And I tried to go down this rabbit hole. 637 00:36:14,423 --> 00:36:15,173 Okay. 638 00:36:19,428 --> 00:36:21,054 "May 4th, 2022." 639 00:36:23,015 --> 00:36:24,932 {\an8}- Which was after the sentencing. - [phone chimes] 640 00:36:24,933 --> 00:36:27,560 {\an8}[Cafiero] I just sent the text, "Amanda, I'm so sorry 641 00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,354 {\an8}"for what you and your family are going through." 642 00:36:29,688 --> 00:36:30,980 [phone chimes] 643 00:36:30,981 --> 00:36:32,523 [Cafiero] Then she said, "This really means a lot. 644 00:36:32,524 --> 00:36:35,193 "I do want to talk to you, now that I can and explain." 645 00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:39,614 And, um, she wrote this one to me 646 00:36:39,615 --> 00:36:43,452 a couple of days before she was... Went to jail. 647 00:36:43,911 --> 00:36:45,202 [phone notification chimes] 648 00:36:45,203 --> 00:36:46,746 [Cafiero] "Hi, Rebecca, how are you doing? 649 00:36:46,747 --> 00:36:48,623 "I'm really sorry it took me so long to get back to you. 650 00:36:48,624 --> 00:36:50,249 "I'm struggling and I honestly don't know 651 00:36:50,250 --> 00:36:51,627 "where to start or even what to say." 652 00:36:52,169 --> 00:36:56,672 [phone notifications chiming] 653 00:36:56,673 --> 00:36:58,467 [Cafiero] I still don't believe her. 654 00:36:59,051 --> 00:37:00,593 At this point, 655 00:37:00,594 --> 00:37:04,264 there's no possibility of her recovering my trust. 656 00:37:06,016 --> 00:37:08,560 Because how can you, 657 00:37:09,144 --> 00:37:10,812 when you've been lied to for years and years? 658 00:37:11,647 --> 00:37:13,356 At this point, I can't believe anything 659 00:37:13,357 --> 00:37:16,068 that comes out of either Peggy or Amanda's mouth. 660 00:37:17,903 --> 00:37:19,988 Because Peggy emailed me as well. 661 00:37:20,530 --> 00:37:21,864 [notification chimes] 662 00:37:21,865 --> 00:37:23,742 [♪ intriguing instrumental music playing] 663 00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:27,036 [Cafiero] "She finally came clean 664 00:37:27,037 --> 00:37:28,872 "with the family last September, 665 00:37:29,456 --> 00:37:31,165 "and I've never felt so betrayed and stupid 666 00:37:31,166 --> 00:37:32,542 "that I didn't recognize it sooner." 667 00:37:35,754 --> 00:37:38,089 She had made all these claims that she'd been 668 00:37:38,090 --> 00:37:40,092 to doctor's appointments for years. 669 00:37:40,467 --> 00:37:44,470 And that did not add up with the fact that she said 670 00:37:44,471 --> 00:37:47,057 that she just found out in September. 671 00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:54,022 I felt so targeted by both Peggy and Amanda. 672 00:37:56,525 --> 00:37:58,777 And I don't know that we'll ever know the truth. 673 00:37:59,319 --> 00:38:01,862 I don't know if something happened 674 00:38:01,863 --> 00:38:03,823 in that household, that created it. 675 00:38:03,824 --> 00:38:06,159 I don't know if Amanda naturally... 676 00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:09,371 was looking for attention. I don't know. 677 00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,043 I don't think that Amanda sat down 678 00:38:16,044 --> 00:38:17,670 and masterminded this plan, 679 00:38:17,671 --> 00:38:19,839 but I did wonder where she got the idea 680 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,800 of lying about cancer from. 681 00:38:24,011 --> 00:38:25,428 Was it from Lisa, 682 00:38:25,429 --> 00:38:27,973 who had a friend who fundraised for cancer? 683 00:38:28,765 --> 00:38:30,099 Or was it Jaymie? 684 00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,351 Amanda got very close to Jaymie at the time 685 00:38:32,352 --> 00:38:34,187 that she was being treated for cancer. 686 00:38:36,606 --> 00:38:37,940 [♪ music fades] 687 00:38:37,941 --> 00:38:40,693 {\an8}I'm going on almost 20 years cancer-free. 688 00:38:40,694 --> 00:38:42,445 [♪ pensive instrumental music playing] 689 00:38:42,446 --> 00:38:46,116 [Jaymie] I don't know that she got the idea 690 00:38:47,075 --> 00:38:50,412 to fake cancer from my experience. 691 00:38:50,996 --> 00:38:53,415 I don't know what goes on in that woman's head. 692 00:38:55,208 --> 00:38:58,794 I think Amanda and Cory just wanted things 693 00:38:58,795 --> 00:39:00,130 to go their way. 694 00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:01,923 And they would do 695 00:39:02,591 --> 00:39:04,341 whatever they felt they needed to do, 696 00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:08,512 wanted to do, to get their way. 697 00:39:08,513 --> 00:39:10,306 You have highly aggressive blood cancer. 698 00:39:10,307 --> 00:39:11,891 It's metastasized to your lungs. 699 00:39:11,892 --> 00:39:13,392 [Aletta] My kids weren't the only ones 700 00:39:13,393 --> 00:39:17,564 {\an8}that went through this. She hurt tons of people. 701 00:39:18,648 --> 00:39:22,611 And I don't think she's gonna come out reformed. 702 00:39:23,653 --> 00:39:24,404 I really don't. 703 00:39:27,407 --> 00:39:29,366 {\an8}She's full of crap. [chuckles] 704 00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:30,869 {\an8}And she'll always be full of crap. 705 00:39:31,828 --> 00:39:34,748 [Jose] She's smart enough to be devious, 706 00:39:35,916 --> 00:39:37,334 and to another level. 707 00:39:38,126 --> 00:39:42,338 {\an8}And she knows that it has effect on people, 708 00:39:42,339 --> 00:39:45,467 {\an8}how she looks, how she carries herself. 709 00:39:46,676 --> 00:39:48,053 Because she's an actor, 710 00:39:49,012 --> 00:39:52,474 she's in that character 24/7. She's still a victim. 711 00:39:53,850 --> 00:39:55,727 Somebody's done her wrong. 712 00:39:56,144 --> 00:39:57,479 I don't think that's gonna change. 713 00:39:58,939 --> 00:40:00,189 I highly doubt 714 00:40:00,190 --> 00:40:02,525 she's gonna step out of the prison gates and be like, 715 00:40:02,526 --> 00:40:05,737 "What good can I, you know, bring into the world?" 716 00:40:06,113 --> 00:40:08,573 I'm sure she's got something else lined up already. 717 00:40:09,491 --> 00:40:12,410 So, like, what's the next level for her? 718 00:40:15,038 --> 00:40:17,833 {\an8}[Amanda] I've always lived this battle so publicly. 719 00:40:18,250 --> 00:40:19,167 {\an8}I was like, "God," like, 720 00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:22,086 {\an8}"I don't wanna have such a sad end to the story 721 00:40:22,087 --> 00:40:24,630 {\an8}"for everybody," you know? But-- But it is. 722 00:40:24,631 --> 00:40:26,258 [♪ music concludes] 723 00:40:27,342 --> 00:40:29,094 [♪ uplifting instrumental music playing] 724 00:41:29,154 --> 00:41:30,488 [♪ music concludes]