1
00:00:01,001 --> 00:00:02,169
[♪ theme music playing]
2
00:00:07,425 --> 00:00:08,467
[♪ music concludes]
3
00:00:09,301 --> 00:00:12,471
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
4
00:00:18,352 --> 00:00:21,021
{\an8}[dog barking, howling]
5
00:00:24,024 --> 00:00:27,653
{\an8}Amanda, at this stage
is cornered, really.
6
00:00:28,237 --> 00:00:29,822
They raided her house.
7
00:00:31,949 --> 00:00:35,618
{\an8}My mom sent me videos
of them hiding out
8
00:00:35,619 --> 00:00:37,872
{\an8}in the back of the car.
9
00:00:38,122 --> 00:00:40,624
[Aletta] Wow! Going in.
10
00:00:41,667 --> 00:00:45,295
And I remember my mom
being so happy.
11
00:00:45,296 --> 00:00:47,131
- [Aletta] There's so many
of them.
- [Amie] I'm shaking.
12
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,884
[Jaymie] Now, looking back,
I-- I get it.
13
00:00:50,301 --> 00:00:52,218
They put my mom through hell.
14
00:00:52,219 --> 00:00:54,263
- [Aletta] Oh, my God.
- [Amie] Oh, my God.
15
00:00:55,765 --> 00:01:00,143
But you don't ever want to know
people are living in the world
16
00:01:00,144 --> 00:01:03,397
faking cancer and stuff.
So, for me, it was kind of, um,
17
00:01:03,981 --> 00:01:05,733
not something to be celebrated.
18
00:01:08,277 --> 00:01:09,570
[♪ music concludes]
19
00:01:11,113 --> 00:01:13,865
{\an8}I was like, "Okay, this is done.
They're caught. This is over."
20
00:01:13,866 --> 00:01:15,575
[indistinct radio chatter]
21
00:01:15,576 --> 00:01:19,622
But it wasn't over. [laughs]
Not even close.
22
00:01:20,664 --> 00:01:22,332
[♪ soft instrumental music
playing]
23
00:01:22,333 --> 00:01:25,836
[indistinct radio chatter]
24
00:01:29,507 --> 00:01:31,133
{\an8}She's not under arrest
at the moment.
25
00:01:33,844 --> 00:01:36,305
It just takes time
for-- for stuff to happen.
26
00:01:40,684 --> 00:01:44,354
[Aletta] At the time,
Jessa was back in my custody.
27
00:01:44,355 --> 00:01:46,899
I got her back abruptly
28
00:01:47,358 --> 00:01:49,609
because Amanda's family
went on a cruise
29
00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:52,695
for Amanda's 30th birthday.
And apparently,
30
00:01:52,696 --> 00:01:54,823
there was some heavy drinking
on board,
31
00:01:54,824 --> 00:01:58,202
and some behaviors
that made Jessa uncomfortable.
32
00:01:59,036 --> 00:02:01,121
And I got full
physical legal custody back.
33
00:02:06,544 --> 00:02:10,046
After the raid, it was important
for me to be completely,
34
00:02:10,047 --> 00:02:11,799
100% truthful with Jessa.
35
00:02:12,174 --> 00:02:14,384
And so, I told her that
there's suspicion
36
00:02:14,385 --> 00:02:16,345
that Amanda
does not have cancer.
37
00:02:17,137 --> 00:02:19,722
And at that point, she did know
something was off
38
00:02:19,723 --> 00:02:22,268
because she had found
a portion of an IV
39
00:02:22,601 --> 00:02:23,978
in her little brother's
playroom.
40
00:02:26,021 --> 00:02:28,398
And so, Jessa texted Amanda
about the raid
41
00:02:28,399 --> 00:02:29,858
and was asking questions.
42
00:02:29,859 --> 00:02:30,985
{\an8}[phone chimes]
43
00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:36,322
{\an8}Aletta felt it was necessary
to explain to Jessa
44
00:02:36,323 --> 00:02:37,783
{\an8}what had happened.
45
00:02:39,076 --> 00:02:42,662
{\an8}Amanda couldn't even tell Jessa
the truth at that point.
46
00:02:42,663 --> 00:02:45,123
- [phone chimes]
- [Nancy] It was very much like,
47
00:02:45,124 --> 00:02:46,708
"You don't know
what you're talking about.
48
00:02:46,709 --> 00:02:50,212
"You're being fed lies.
This is all your mom's doing."
49
00:02:50,796 --> 00:02:53,590
And Jessa knew
that wasn't the case.
50
00:02:53,591 --> 00:02:56,301
And so, she pressed,
you know, Amanda.
51
00:02:56,302 --> 00:02:57,136
[phone chimes]
52
00:02:58,762 --> 00:03:00,180
[keys clacking]
53
00:03:00,556 --> 00:03:01,807
{\an8}[phone chimes]
54
00:03:03,350 --> 00:03:06,478
{\an8}Amanda had got upset because
I had discussed it with Jessa.
55
00:03:06,770 --> 00:03:08,313
But, you know,
of course I have to.
56
00:03:08,314 --> 00:03:09,522
[phone chimes]
57
00:03:09,523 --> 00:03:11,859
[♪ tense instrumental music
playing]
58
00:03:13,569 --> 00:03:14,612
{\an8}[phone chimes]
59
00:03:16,113 --> 00:03:18,197
I was very sad by the situation,
60
00:03:18,198 --> 00:03:19,992
and I wish
it had never come to that.
61
00:03:20,409 --> 00:03:23,537
[phone chiming]
62
00:03:29,877 --> 00:03:32,588
[Amie] The emotional distress
that Jessa had to go under,
63
00:03:33,547 --> 00:03:36,091
thinking that her stepmom
was gonna die,
64
00:03:36,634 --> 00:03:39,470
{\an8}saying that she might
have to go into surgery
65
00:03:40,012 --> 00:03:42,431
{\an8}to save Amanda's life,
that's abuse.
66
00:03:44,516 --> 00:03:51,439
[Jaymie] Amanda told Jessa
that... she and her brothers
67
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,234
were gonna have to get
some of their bone marrow
68
00:03:54,693 --> 00:03:56,862
to possibly save Amanda's life.
69
00:03:57,404 --> 00:04:02,493
Now, not only are you lying,
you're terrifying your children.
70
00:04:03,118 --> 00:04:04,995
[Amie]
Imagine the two little ones...
71
00:04:06,664 --> 00:04:08,832
thinking that
their mom's gonna die.
72
00:04:10,459 --> 00:04:14,338
Wow. The--
How can a mother do that?
73
00:04:17,383 --> 00:04:18,842
Then Cory,
74
00:04:19,176 --> 00:04:21,594
supposedly he went
to the hospitals with her.
75
00:04:21,595 --> 00:04:23,055
He did treatments with her.
76
00:04:24,723 --> 00:04:28,935
She has an IV pole
and IV items in the house.
77
00:04:28,936 --> 00:04:30,145
How could he not know?
78
00:04:35,567 --> 00:04:39,029
{\an8}He stood next to her
crying to me.
79
00:04:39,905 --> 00:04:41,615
{\an8}He backed her up.
80
00:04:43,325 --> 00:04:47,412
[Jose] I think at some point,
Cory believed her.
81
00:04:47,413 --> 00:04:50,457
And I think at some point,
he knew it was a lie.
82
00:04:52,501 --> 00:04:56,504
Proving where that line is,
is a harder go,
83
00:04:56,505 --> 00:04:58,173
because then you can say,
84
00:04:58,507 --> 00:05:00,676
"She fooled
this entire congregation.
85
00:05:01,552 --> 00:05:02,845
"She fooled her mom.
86
00:05:04,346 --> 00:05:06,097
"Why is it far-fetched
to fool a husband
87
00:05:06,098 --> 00:05:09,726
"who sees her with a shaved head
and shivering in the bed
88
00:05:09,727 --> 00:05:11,895
- "and oxygen tubes?"
- [monitor beeping]
89
00:05:14,398 --> 00:05:15,315
[♪ music concludes]
90
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,943
[birds chirping]
91
00:05:22,197 --> 00:05:26,701
{\an8}Literally hours after
federal agents left her home...
92
00:05:26,702 --> 00:05:28,327
[keyboard keys clacking]
93
00:05:28,328 --> 00:05:30,246
...Amanda posted on Facebook.
94
00:05:30,247 --> 00:05:31,748
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
95
00:05:31,749 --> 00:05:34,584
[Nancy] It was lymphoma
cancer awareness month,
96
00:05:34,585 --> 00:05:38,297
and she's posting an old picture
of her bald.
97
00:05:40,174 --> 00:05:43,009
I just couldn't believe
what I was seeing.
98
00:05:43,010 --> 00:05:44,386
Nothing stopped her.
99
00:05:46,889 --> 00:05:49,474
{\an8}She told me that what she was
100
00:05:49,475 --> 00:05:52,144
{\an8}getting in trouble for
was the tax evasion.
101
00:05:54,271 --> 00:05:57,106
[Charlie] Amanda told everyone
that it's just all a mix-up
102
00:05:57,107 --> 00:05:58,691
to do with tax
'cause she didn't realize
103
00:05:58,692 --> 00:06:02,112
she had to pay tax on the money
that people had gifted her.
104
00:06:03,113 --> 00:06:05,949
So, Amanda actually didn't hide
away from it.
105
00:06:07,493 --> 00:06:10,579
But the police
and the IRS investigating her
106
00:06:10,829 --> 00:06:11,955
weren't gonna go away.
107
00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:21,297
[Josh] My father-in-law,
108
00:06:21,298 --> 00:06:23,591
the senior pastor
of Family Community Church,
109
00:06:23,592 --> 00:06:25,010
came to me privately
and said, "Hey,
110
00:06:25,511 --> 00:06:27,637
"there's an investigation
going on. I need to know.
111
00:06:27,638 --> 00:06:29,056
{\an8}"Does Amanda have cancer?"
112
00:06:29,723 --> 00:06:32,558
{\an8}And I said, I...
"She says she does."
113
00:06:32,559 --> 00:06:34,728
And that's when he said,
"I just caution you,
114
00:06:35,813 --> 00:06:39,899
"uh, to not give any more
to Cory and Amanda."
115
00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:43,319
Uh, he said, "We're not gonna be
donating anything any further."
116
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,655
And that
117
00:06:45,197 --> 00:06:47,156
made the hair on the back
of my neck stand up.
118
00:06:47,157 --> 00:06:50,993
Um, so many people read my blog
and hear my story,
119
00:06:50,994 --> 00:06:54,873
and ask about my faith.
Um, that's all God.
120
00:06:56,875 --> 00:06:59,461
We would see less and less
of her at the church.
121
00:06:59,837 --> 00:07:02,589
She stopped coming,
really, to the main service.
122
00:07:04,299 --> 00:07:07,052
My father-in-law loves
his congregation.
123
00:07:07,928 --> 00:07:12,807
And anytime
anyone's giving their testimony
124
00:07:12,808 --> 00:07:16,478
or sharing their faith,
especially from the pulpit,
125
00:07:17,855 --> 00:07:20,774
he expects that it's genuine
and authentic.
126
00:07:21,275 --> 00:07:24,610
Don't ignore Jesus
because he is always there,
127
00:07:24,611 --> 00:07:27,155
and it would be unfortunate
if he brought you your miracle,
128
00:07:27,156 --> 00:07:28,447
and you weren't watching.
129
00:07:28,448 --> 00:07:29,991
- [audience cheering]
- [exhales sharply]
130
00:07:29,992 --> 00:07:31,117
[Josh] It was very painful
131
00:07:31,118 --> 00:07:33,035
to look at these videos
and pictures
132
00:07:33,036 --> 00:07:37,206
and see somebody that claimed
to be a person of faith
133
00:07:37,207 --> 00:07:40,502
give false testimony
to a room full of believers.
134
00:07:41,503 --> 00:07:43,839
[Lindsey] She had thousands
of people duped.
135
00:07:44,882 --> 00:07:49,177
I don't think, in that church,
that there was one person
136
00:07:49,178 --> 00:07:51,263
standing in the background
going,
137
00:07:52,264 --> 00:07:53,640
"Something doesn't add up."
138
00:07:54,766 --> 00:07:56,101
[Nancy] She doesn't care.
139
00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,978
She doesn't care that
people are looking into her.
140
00:07:58,979 --> 00:08:01,772
She was now away
from the FCC church,
141
00:08:01,773 --> 00:08:03,233
and she wasn't gonna stop.
142
00:08:05,527 --> 00:08:08,196
And sure enough,
someone said to me,
143
00:08:08,197 --> 00:08:10,865
"Well, you know,
Amanda's now gonna be principal
144
00:08:10,866 --> 00:08:13,118
"at a elementary school
in Gilroy."
145
00:08:15,495 --> 00:08:17,831
She moved 40 minutes away,
146
00:08:18,415 --> 00:08:21,335
and I just knew this school
was gonna be her next target.
147
00:08:23,295 --> 00:08:25,255
- [♪ music fades]
- [school bell ringing]
148
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,593
[♪ pensive instrumental music
playing]
149
00:08:35,098 --> 00:08:37,516
[Charlie] When the police
went after Amanda,
150
00:08:37,517 --> 00:08:39,478
she pulled away from the church.
151
00:08:40,771 --> 00:08:42,773
But she was very, very charming,
152
00:08:43,357 --> 00:08:47,486
{\an8}and Amanda used it
to her advantage.
153
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,575
Amanda was teaching,
154
00:08:54,576 --> 00:08:57,370
and then, she was hired
as a principal
155
00:08:57,371 --> 00:08:59,289
at a school
called Pacific Point.
156
00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:05,045
[cameraman] Interview Natalie,
take one, A, B, C, common mark.
157
00:09:05,379 --> 00:09:09,508
{\an8}I am a parent at Pacific Point
Christian School.
158
00:09:10,634 --> 00:09:13,302
My daughter attended
Pacific Point
159
00:09:13,303 --> 00:09:14,680
when Amanda was principal.
160
00:09:18,684 --> 00:09:21,894
When she was first hired,
everybody loved her.
161
00:09:21,895 --> 00:09:24,106
The kids loved her.
My daughter adored her.
162
00:09:25,941 --> 00:09:30,904
She was charming,
charismatic, seemed very caring.
163
00:09:31,154 --> 00:09:32,656
There were no red flags.
164
00:09:36,910 --> 00:09:40,454
{\an8}No one at that school
would have had any idea
165
00:09:40,455 --> 00:09:42,332
that she was being investigated.
166
00:09:45,377 --> 00:09:46,670
[♪ music concludes]
167
00:09:47,212 --> 00:09:49,339
[♪ soft instrumental music
playing]
168
00:09:51,675 --> 00:09:53,176
{\an8}Hi. [chuckles]
169
00:09:55,095 --> 00:09:58,932
{\an8}My son, James,
was going into kindergarten.
170
00:10:00,183 --> 00:10:02,686
So, we went to Pac Point
to take a tour.
171
00:10:03,437 --> 00:10:06,064
When we got there,
we met Amanda Riley.
172
00:10:09,151 --> 00:10:12,195
My husband and myself thought
she was so amazing.
173
00:10:14,364 --> 00:10:17,283
And we wanted to find a school
that would accommodate us
174
00:10:17,284 --> 00:10:18,368
in our situation.
175
00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:22,455
Because of James' older brother,
Jonathan,
176
00:10:22,456 --> 00:10:24,957
having Niemann-Pick's
type C disease,
177
00:10:24,958 --> 00:10:27,044
we refer to it
as childhood Alzheimer's,
178
00:10:27,377 --> 00:10:29,962
I had told her
how we are in a clinical trial
179
00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,965
and have to go
to all these different places.
180
00:10:32,966 --> 00:10:35,719
And because James is so young,
he needs to come with us.
181
00:10:36,762 --> 00:10:38,221
And she understood.
182
00:10:40,766 --> 00:10:41,932
And then she had told us
183
00:10:41,933 --> 00:10:43,934
she was in remission
from cancer.
184
00:10:43,935 --> 00:10:45,896
[♪ somber instrumental music
playing]
185
00:10:46,438 --> 00:10:48,147
[Spencer-White]
And at the end of our tour,
186
00:10:48,148 --> 00:10:51,943
she prayed with me
and my husband, and Jonathan,
187
00:10:52,194 --> 00:10:54,571
and told him,
"I understand how you feel."
188
00:10:55,572 --> 00:10:57,115
"I went through treatment
as well."
189
00:11:00,243 --> 00:11:03,330
I knew it was only a matter
of time till she started,
190
00:11:04,498 --> 00:11:06,165
you know, "I'm so sick.
191
00:11:06,166 --> 00:11:08,627
"My cancer's back,
I need money, my family."
192
00:11:10,212 --> 00:11:13,632
And that's exactly
what happened fairly quickly.
193
00:11:17,844 --> 00:11:20,971
There was a fundraiser
for another staff member
194
00:11:20,972 --> 00:11:24,601
at Pac Point that had
her cancer come back.
195
00:11:26,436 --> 00:11:28,271
And soon after that,
196
00:11:28,647 --> 00:11:31,107
Amanda announced
to the community at the school
197
00:11:31,108 --> 00:11:33,026
that her cancer was also back,
198
00:11:33,527 --> 00:11:35,987
and that she was going to
199
00:11:36,238 --> 00:11:38,782
be going through more chemo
and more treatments.
200
00:11:42,953 --> 00:11:46,415
Miss Cindy was sick,
and you could see it.
201
00:11:48,750 --> 00:11:52,002
But she worked as long
as she could
202
00:11:52,003 --> 00:11:54,089
because she loved our kids
so much.
203
00:11:57,676 --> 00:12:00,637
We learned about Amanda's health
pretty quickly on,
204
00:12:01,012 --> 00:12:03,222
and the kids at our school
prayed for her.
205
00:12:03,223 --> 00:12:04,307
They made her little gifts.
206
00:12:07,144 --> 00:12:10,397
It was her first year,
but everybody supported her,
207
00:12:11,398 --> 00:12:13,024
and wanted to help.
208
00:12:18,822 --> 00:12:20,781
So, the school sent out
the emails
209
00:12:20,782 --> 00:12:22,074
that they were doing
this fundraiser
210
00:12:22,075 --> 00:12:24,411
for Miss Cindy and Miss Riley.
211
00:12:25,745 --> 00:12:28,331
[Natalie] Gilroy
is an amazing community.
212
00:12:28,874 --> 00:12:30,041
The people are generous.
213
00:12:31,376 --> 00:12:33,628
People would write checks.
They would give cash.
214
00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,716
Teachers went to go visit Amanda
at the hospital.
215
00:12:40,594 --> 00:12:45,055
The school... did what I think
Amanda expected,
216
00:12:45,056 --> 00:12:47,893
which was to fundraise
for her as well.
217
00:12:48,602 --> 00:12:50,479
And all the money
that they raised
218
00:12:50,896 --> 00:12:53,398
over the next months and year,
219
00:12:53,732 --> 00:12:57,152
um, was split between Miss Cindy
and-- and Amanda.
220
00:12:59,529 --> 00:13:03,115
I noticed one of the families
she was involved with was,
221
00:13:03,116 --> 00:13:07,828
uh, Rebecca Spencer's family,
and Rebecca's son, Jonathan,
222
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:11,415
who was a young man
that had a terminal illness.
223
00:13:11,416 --> 00:13:12,667
And I reached out.
224
00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,252
[Spencer-White]
I got a phone call from Nancy.
225
00:13:15,253 --> 00:13:18,255
And honestly,
when she first called me,
226
00:13:18,256 --> 00:13:20,258
I thought, "This lady's crazy."
227
00:13:22,219 --> 00:13:26,056
But then as I talked to her,
then I got angry because...
228
00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:31,645
my son is only alive
because of people's donations.
229
00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:35,314
And for somebody to lie and say
that they have a disease,
230
00:13:35,315 --> 00:13:39,110
and they don't have it,
this is beyond disgusting.
231
00:13:41,821 --> 00:13:43,447
She prayed with Jonathan,
232
00:13:43,448 --> 00:13:45,366
and said,
"I understand how it is
233
00:13:45,367 --> 00:13:47,953
"to have a terminal illness,
a disease."
234
00:13:49,454 --> 00:13:50,872
And, no, she didn't.
235
00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:54,084
She didn't go through
what Jonathan goes through.
236
00:13:59,047 --> 00:14:01,341
[Natalie] Um, Miss Cindy
was a wonderful person.
237
00:14:04,177 --> 00:14:06,346
She had a tragic story.
238
00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:12,142
I was there, uh, with her
the day before she died,
239
00:14:12,143 --> 00:14:16,106
my husband and I.
And she is so missed.
240
00:14:22,362 --> 00:14:26,199
So, when we all found out
Amanda was being investigated,
241
00:14:26,950 --> 00:14:30,287
we were heartbroken for her kids
and for all of the victims,
242
00:14:30,704 --> 00:14:33,747
but we were also angry
that Miss Cindy died...
243
00:14:33,748 --> 00:14:35,374
[♪ music concludes]
244
00:14:35,375 --> 00:14:38,837
...and that those kids
grieved for her,
245
00:14:39,170 --> 00:14:42,173
and that she put our kids
through torture.
246
00:14:45,844 --> 00:14:47,219
[Nancy] It was at that point
247
00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:49,597
some of my colleagues
at my office
248
00:14:49,598 --> 00:14:52,641
made the decision to reach out
at the school.
249
00:14:52,642 --> 00:14:54,143
[♪ upbeat electronic music
playing]
250
00:14:54,144 --> 00:14:56,145
[Nancy] "Hey, I wanna know more
about your principal.
251
00:14:56,146 --> 00:14:58,064
"I may be
sending my child there."
252
00:14:59,524 --> 00:15:02,693
Amanda, I think,
quickly figured out it was, uh,
253
00:15:02,694 --> 00:15:04,571
somehow related to me.
254
00:15:06,990 --> 00:15:09,159
And she filed the restraining
order against me.
255
00:15:11,745 --> 00:15:12,579
[♪ music concludes]
256
00:15:13,705 --> 00:15:15,081
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
257
00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:26,216
[Nancy] It was a Friday night
on a holiday weekend,
258
00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:27,761
and I came home,
259
00:15:28,261 --> 00:15:29,970
went to get the mail
out of the mailbox,
260
00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:34,183
{\an8}and there was just all
these papers stuffed in there.
261
00:15:34,184 --> 00:15:36,143
I thought it was junk mail,
and I'm pulling through,
262
00:15:36,144 --> 00:15:38,479
pulling all these papers out,
and I see Amanda Riley,
263
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:40,773
and I see my name, and I'm like,
"What the hell is this?"
264
00:15:40,774 --> 00:15:43,568
And I-- I start to realize
it was court papers.
265
00:15:44,986 --> 00:15:48,281
Amanda had filed
a restraining order against me.
266
00:15:49,366 --> 00:15:51,867
In the paperwork to the courts,
267
00:15:51,868 --> 00:15:56,080
she claimed I was calling
her workplace hundreds of times.
268
00:15:56,081 --> 00:15:59,333
She was claiming that I got
her fired at her past jobs,
269
00:15:59,334 --> 00:16:00,585
that I got Cory fired.
270
00:16:02,253 --> 00:16:04,964
She claimed I was taking on
these pseudonyms
271
00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:07,758
and reaching out
to random people
272
00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:09,134
accusing her of things
273
00:16:09,135 --> 00:16:11,221
and harassing her
on every level.
274
00:16:13,098 --> 00:16:16,183
It took months
and thousands of dollars
275
00:16:16,184 --> 00:16:19,144
to get to the point
where we could finally
276
00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:21,022
have our day in court.
277
00:16:21,481 --> 00:16:25,235
I testified. Amanda testified.
Cory testified.
278
00:16:26,444 --> 00:16:28,946
Cory testified
that he was by his wife's side
279
00:16:28,947 --> 00:16:31,533
at appointments
for the last five years.
280
00:16:33,076 --> 00:16:36,328
But as a member of the press
and doing, uh,
281
00:16:36,329 --> 00:16:37,914
this for a news organization,
282
00:16:38,248 --> 00:16:39,833
this was
a First Amendment issue.
283
00:16:41,292 --> 00:16:44,211
[Charlie]
Nancy was in the right of,
284
00:16:44,212 --> 00:16:46,046
basically, the freedom of press.
285
00:16:46,047 --> 00:16:47,048
[♪ music concludes]
286
00:16:48,174 --> 00:16:49,634
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
287
00:16:50,593 --> 00:16:52,846
[Charlie] But it became
so personal for Nancy.
288
00:16:53,430 --> 00:16:54,680
And then, you've got Amanda
289
00:16:54,681 --> 00:16:59,017
{\an8}with the same tenacity
and determination,
290
00:16:59,018 --> 00:17:01,104
{\an8}to then quiet Nancy down.
291
00:17:05,859 --> 00:17:08,111
[Arlette] Subjects
in criminal investigations
292
00:17:08,945 --> 00:17:12,407
{\an8}will often say that it's
a mistake or a misunderstanding.
293
00:17:13,283 --> 00:17:14,992
I just keep going on
with my case
294
00:17:14,993 --> 00:17:16,702
and get the proper evidence
295
00:17:16,703 --> 00:17:18,663
for her to eventually
get charged.
296
00:17:19,664 --> 00:17:21,248
It took a long time,
297
00:17:21,249 --> 00:17:26,379
but the good thing was that
it's still happening.
298
00:17:26,755 --> 00:17:32,217
{\an8}It's just gonna show, you know,
how brazen this person is,
299
00:17:32,218 --> 00:17:35,096
{\an8}even after they know
it's at this level.
300
00:17:37,432 --> 00:17:39,057
{\an8}[♪ music fades]
301
00:17:39,058 --> 00:17:41,394
{\an8}[Nancy] I remember when
that press release went out,
302
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,855
that Amanda Riley
had been indicted.
303
00:17:44,856 --> 00:17:47,691
These were the charges,
and here's what she did.
304
00:17:47,692 --> 00:17:48,984
[♪ tense instrumental music
playing]
305
00:17:48,985 --> 00:17:50,903
[Nancy] And places picked up
on the story
306
00:17:50,904 --> 00:17:54,907
because it's not every day
you get a headline
307
00:17:54,908 --> 00:17:58,286
that someone was faking cancer
for eight years,
308
00:17:58,828 --> 00:18:01,206
taking tens
of thousands of dollars.
309
00:18:01,790 --> 00:18:05,793
At that point I knew also
that all the victims,
310
00:18:05,794 --> 00:18:09,254
if they donated through
the Support Amanda site,
311
00:18:09,255 --> 00:18:14,635
were receiving a letter saying,
"You are the victim of a fraud."
312
00:18:14,636 --> 00:18:15,844
[notification chimes]
313
00:18:15,845 --> 00:18:17,930
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
314
00:18:17,931 --> 00:18:19,890
{\an8}I had a little email thing flash
315
00:18:19,891 --> 00:18:21,893
{\an8}and it just said,
"Department of Justice."
316
00:18:22,477 --> 00:18:23,853
And I read through it.
317
00:18:25,355 --> 00:18:26,648
I just remember going cold.
318
00:18:27,524 --> 00:18:28,733
I started Googling it.
319
00:18:30,485 --> 00:18:31,945
I was like, "Wait, what?"
320
00:18:32,445 --> 00:18:35,614
I've given,
on the low side, 20,000,
321
00:18:35,615 --> 00:18:37,533
on the high side, 30,000.
322
00:18:37,534 --> 00:18:40,787
And that's in actual cash.
That does not include gifts.
323
00:18:42,831 --> 00:18:45,792
I felt like I w--
was owed an explanation.
324
00:18:47,836 --> 00:18:49,295
So, I reached out to her mom.
325
00:18:50,672 --> 00:18:53,633
I asked Peggy, I was like,
"Peggy, like, what do you know?"
326
00:18:54,092 --> 00:18:57,177
And she says, "Rebecca,
you know Amanda has cancer.
327
00:18:57,178 --> 00:18:58,554
"You know Amanda's innocent.
328
00:18:58,555 --> 00:18:59,848
"I was at
those doctor's appointments."
329
00:19:04,477 --> 00:19:06,229
And that was all I had to hear.
330
00:19:06,479 --> 00:19:07,522
{\an8}[phone chimes]
331
00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:11,860
{\an8}Rebecca couldn't get
her head around
332
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:14,946
that Amanda was capable
of something like this.
333
00:19:17,115 --> 00:19:18,908
[keys clacking]
334
00:19:19,284 --> 00:19:20,826
[Cafiero] Amanda,
within the next couple of days,
335
00:19:20,827 --> 00:19:22,327
reached out to me,
and she's like,
336
00:19:22,328 --> 00:19:23,871
"I'm so sorry that, like,
337
00:19:23,872 --> 00:19:25,080
"you're even being brought up
in this.
338
00:19:25,081 --> 00:19:27,000
"It's... This is,
like, my nightmare."
339
00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:31,504
And so I said, like,
"Amanda, listen, I believe you."
340
00:19:32,088 --> 00:19:34,798
"I am trying to answer
a lot of people right now
341
00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:38,093
"in my life that
are challenging me with this.
342
00:19:38,094 --> 00:19:40,429
"Like,
can you give me anything?"
343
00:19:40,430 --> 00:19:43,640
{\an8}- [phone chimes]
- [keys clacking]
344
00:19:43,641 --> 00:19:45,559
{\an8}And she said, "Well,
I have an appointment.
345
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,228
"Y-- You can come with me."
346
00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:49,063
And I was like,
"That's amazing."
347
00:19:49,856 --> 00:19:52,901
And she texted me
the day before.
348
00:19:54,319 --> 00:19:56,445
And she's like, "Unfortunately,
because of all the protocols
349
00:19:56,446 --> 00:19:58,697
"right now with COVID,
you're not gonna be able
350
00:19:58,698 --> 00:20:00,657
"to come in with me,
but I can FaceTime you."
351
00:20:00,658 --> 00:20:02,367
And I was like,
"Totally understandable.
352
00:20:02,368 --> 00:20:05,329
"That totally makes sense."
Um, and so, she FaceTimed me.
353
00:20:05,330 --> 00:20:06,789
[phone ringing]
354
00:20:08,249 --> 00:20:10,751
And she had on
one of the little medical hats,
355
00:20:10,752 --> 00:20:13,462
and was wearing a mask.
And I could see a nurse
356
00:20:13,463 --> 00:20:14,963
in the background
kind of moving around.
357
00:20:14,964 --> 00:20:18,091
And I could see the...
the metal from the IV.
358
00:20:18,092 --> 00:20:20,510
And you could see
the IV in her arm.
359
00:20:20,511 --> 00:20:22,512
And I'm like,
"Okay, she's... [chuckles]
360
00:20:22,513 --> 00:20:23,847
"...she's having treatment."
361
00:20:23,848 --> 00:20:26,558
I even took a picture
when she FaceTimed me,
362
00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:28,185
and I sent it
to my friends and family.
363
00:20:28,186 --> 00:20:30,687
And I was like, "Look,
she is in treatment right now."
364
00:20:30,688 --> 00:20:32,815
Like, "This is all
going to get blown over."
365
00:20:34,025 --> 00:20:37,528
I had no doubt about it at all.
I mean, to a fault.
366
00:20:38,821 --> 00:20:40,322
[producer]
At what point in the process
367
00:20:40,323 --> 00:20:41,741
did you call [bleep]?
368
00:20:42,158 --> 00:20:43,701
[chuckles] When she pled guilty.
369
00:20:45,495 --> 00:20:46,537
[♪ music concludes]
370
00:20:47,121 --> 00:20:48,873
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
371
00:20:55,463 --> 00:20:58,716
[Lindsey] After I got the notice
from the Department of Justice,
372
00:20:59,217 --> 00:21:01,719
{\an8}I let Amanda know, "Hey,
373
00:21:02,512 --> 00:21:05,723
{\an8}"I was just given this notice
that you faked cancer."
374
00:21:11,771 --> 00:21:13,147
It was all so surreal.
375
00:21:14,023 --> 00:21:16,275
{\an8}But, looking back...
376
00:21:17,986 --> 00:21:21,113
there are things that...
[inhales sharply]
377
00:21:21,114 --> 00:21:23,366
...I wish I would have
paid attention to.
378
00:21:25,118 --> 00:21:29,706
I knew she was getting a port.
There were posts with pictures.
379
00:21:30,623 --> 00:21:34,627
I knew it was infected.
I saw the bandage on her chest.
380
00:21:35,294 --> 00:21:39,382
And then, there was never
any scar tissue.
381
00:21:40,133 --> 00:21:42,926
And looking back, I just think,
382
00:21:42,927 --> 00:21:44,971
"How could I have
dismissed that?"
383
00:21:48,307 --> 00:21:51,393
But the narrative
that she was dying,
384
00:21:51,394 --> 00:21:53,186
and a miracle
was just so much stronger
385
00:21:53,187 --> 00:21:55,481
than any doubt could have been.
386
00:22:04,615 --> 00:22:07,994
{\an8}So, once a criminal complaint
was filed on Amanda...
387
00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:12,331
she was charged with wire fraud.
388
00:22:14,584 --> 00:22:18,253
And she was charged
with a bankruptcy fraud charge.
389
00:22:18,254 --> 00:22:20,672
And it was basically, you know,
390
00:22:20,673 --> 00:22:22,674
false information
on a bankruptcy filing.
391
00:22:22,675 --> 00:22:24,302
And it was the fact that
392
00:22:25,219 --> 00:22:27,972
they submitted this filing
saying she had cancer,
393
00:22:28,765 --> 00:22:31,601
and the medical records
proved that she did not.
394
00:22:34,687 --> 00:22:36,773
[Nancy]
Cory may not have been charged,
395
00:22:37,899 --> 00:22:41,444
{\an8}but it doesn't change the fact
that I think he knew all along.
396
00:22:44,363 --> 00:22:45,614
[Arlette] When you have
a husband and wife,
397
00:22:45,615 --> 00:22:47,407
there's a-- a privilege.
398
00:22:47,408 --> 00:22:50,369
And so, how could we prove
that Cory was part of it?
399
00:22:50,870 --> 00:22:52,621
The only person
who'd be able to show us
400
00:22:52,622 --> 00:22:53,831
would-- would have been Amanda.
401
00:22:55,291 --> 00:22:58,044
[♪ tense instrumental music
playing]
402
00:22:59,420 --> 00:23:03,591
{\an8}Initially,
Amanda said she's not guilty.
403
00:23:05,802 --> 00:23:09,221
What I was told was that
Amanda didn't wanna plead
404
00:23:09,222 --> 00:23:11,224
to the bankruptcy fraud charge.
405
00:23:12,016 --> 00:23:16,520
But it's not uncommon,
uh, that when you plead,
406
00:23:16,521 --> 00:23:19,398
that if there are other charges,
some of them could be dropped.
407
00:23:21,901 --> 00:23:26,280
[Lindsey] I attended
every single Zoom hearing.
408
00:23:26,614 --> 00:23:30,576
And it was on my calendar
as "Cancer Scam Zoom Party."
409
00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:34,872
There was
a lot of back-and-forth
410
00:23:35,414 --> 00:23:37,708
that prolonged
her pleading guilty.
411
00:23:40,503 --> 00:23:41,962
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
412
00:23:41,963 --> 00:23:43,256
[Arlette] She pled guilty...
413
00:23:44,966 --> 00:23:47,260
and it was a relief
because the truth came out.
414
00:23:51,514 --> 00:23:54,308
So, I just felt
this satisfaction.
415
00:23:56,727 --> 00:23:58,271
[♪ music fades]
416
00:24:01,149 --> 00:24:04,318
[♪ soft rhythmic music playing]
417
00:24:11,159 --> 00:24:14,578
{\an8}The sentencing hearing,
it was really, uh,
418
00:24:14,579 --> 00:24:17,414
{\an8}a wonderful day,
really, for justice.
419
00:24:17,415 --> 00:24:20,668
- [indistinct chatter]
- [Nancy] It was crowded.
420
00:24:22,003 --> 00:24:25,006
Amanda was there with Cory,
with her parents.
421
00:24:25,882 --> 00:24:30,553
There was a lot of people there
that had been scammed by Amanda.
422
00:24:32,013 --> 00:24:34,097
[Lindsey] Her sentencing
was the very first time
423
00:24:34,098 --> 00:24:35,933
I had been in a courtroom.
424
00:24:37,476 --> 00:24:40,270
And I decided
to take the opportunity
425
00:24:40,271 --> 00:24:42,523
to give a impact statement.
426
00:24:51,365 --> 00:24:54,952
"Amanda,
I first met you in a church.
427
00:24:55,369 --> 00:24:58,038
"You were the poor,
young Christian woman,
428
00:24:58,039 --> 00:24:59,707
"fighting a battle undeserved.
429
00:24:59,957 --> 00:25:01,333
"I couldn't do much,
430
00:25:01,334 --> 00:25:03,377
"but I could
pour my blood out for you.
431
00:25:04,253 --> 00:25:05,837
{\an8}"As a lifelong atheist,
432
00:25:05,838 --> 00:25:07,965
{\an8}"the first time I prayed to God,
it was for you."
433
00:25:10,009 --> 00:25:11,010
And...
434
00:25:12,428 --> 00:25:16,349
she gave me a look,
as I read this to her.
435
00:25:17,558 --> 00:25:21,187
We were wearing masks,
but her eyes said...
436
00:25:23,189 --> 00:25:24,106
"I'm so sorry."
437
00:25:27,276 --> 00:25:32,573
And isn't it so true
of a narcissist that she wasn't?
438
00:25:35,743 --> 00:25:37,702
[Lisa] I wanted to make sure
the judge knew
439
00:25:37,703 --> 00:25:39,288
that she had done this before,
440
00:25:40,164 --> 00:25:42,666
and that she would
absolutely do this again,
441
00:25:42,667 --> 00:25:43,751
given the chance.
442
00:25:44,877 --> 00:25:45,962
"Your Honor,
443
00:25:46,295 --> 00:25:48,463
"two years before
she publicly claimed
444
00:25:48,464 --> 00:25:50,174
"to first be diagnosed,
445
00:25:50,591 --> 00:25:53,177
"she told me and my husband
that she had cancer.
446
00:25:54,053 --> 00:25:57,431
"They manipulated our emotions
to get what they wanted,
447
00:25:57,765 --> 00:25:59,350
"attention and money.
448
00:26:00,810 --> 00:26:01,935
"Years later, I learned that
449
00:26:01,936 --> 00:26:03,604
"Amanda and Cory
were at it again,
450
00:26:03,896 --> 00:26:05,648
"scamming on
an even larger scale."
451
00:26:07,858 --> 00:26:10,318
[Aletta] When I was up there,
I was shaking so bad
452
00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:13,029
{\an8}that my husband
was literally holding me tight
453
00:26:13,030 --> 00:26:15,408
{\an8}to stop me from shaking
so I could read the paper.
454
00:26:17,618 --> 00:26:20,329
"My daughter believed
that her stepmom was dying."
455
00:26:21,414 --> 00:26:22,664
"How Amanda Riley could do this
456
00:26:22,665 --> 00:26:25,041
"to a young girl
is beyond disgusting.
457
00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:26,043
"It's abusive."
458
00:26:27,336 --> 00:26:29,213
[inhales sharply]
"This was truly a nightmare.
459
00:26:29,797 --> 00:26:31,090
"And it has never stopped."
460
00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:35,051
{\an8}[Jaymie]
I couldn't find the strength
461
00:26:35,052 --> 00:26:37,805
{\an8}to get up in that moment,
but I did write something.
462
00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:42,351
[exhales deeply]
"Do you remember me, Amanda?
463
00:26:43,477 --> 00:26:45,688
"I was the little girl
with barely any hair.
464
00:26:48,232 --> 00:26:50,442
"You came over
and taught me how to dance.
465
00:26:50,443 --> 00:26:53,821
"I was dying. [sniffles]
You were my friend.
466
00:26:54,947 --> 00:26:56,490
"Do you remember me, Amanda?
467
00:26:56,782 --> 00:26:58,784
"I was the young woman.
[sniffles]
468
00:26:59,869 --> 00:27:01,536
"A group of us cancer survivors
469
00:27:01,537 --> 00:27:04,332
"and yourself
stood out on the field.
470
00:27:04,832 --> 00:27:06,625
"You looked over to me,
and you smiled.
471
00:27:07,585 --> 00:27:08,835
"I can't help but wonder
472
00:27:08,836 --> 00:27:10,463
"what was going through
your mind.
473
00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:13,798
"While you have taken so much
from so many people,
474
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:15,967
"you cannot take my strength.
[sniffles]
475
00:27:15,968 --> 00:27:17,635
"I have been through a lot
476
00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:20,181
"and continue to heal
to this day,
477
00:27:20,765 --> 00:27:22,808
"but I am
a proud cancer survivor."
478
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:23,934
[sniffles]
479
00:27:26,145 --> 00:27:27,730
She likely won't ever hear it.
480
00:27:28,397 --> 00:27:32,318
But putting everything down
on paper, um,
481
00:27:33,152 --> 00:27:35,529
felt very freeing.
482
00:27:38,491 --> 00:27:41,035
[Charlie] And then,
Amanda gave her statement.
483
00:27:43,371 --> 00:27:45,121
[♪ dramatic electronic music
playing]
484
00:27:45,122 --> 00:27:47,832
[actor as Amanda] This is
the worst thing I've ever done
485
00:27:47,833 --> 00:27:50,461
and the worst mistake
I could have made.
486
00:27:50,753 --> 00:27:53,005
[Jaymie]
She didn't have any remorse.
487
00:27:53,339 --> 00:27:54,839
[actor as Amanda]
I have been dealing with...
488
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,424
[Jaymie] I remember her saying,
489
00:27:56,425 --> 00:27:58,552
"I'm so sorry
that this happened."
490
00:27:59,387 --> 00:28:01,388
You should be sorry
you did this,
491
00:28:01,389 --> 00:28:03,099
that you hurt these people.
492
00:28:03,933 --> 00:28:05,350
She didn't care.
493
00:28:05,351 --> 00:28:08,061
She... She was sorry
that she got caught.
494
00:28:08,062 --> 00:28:10,230
[actor as Amanda] I'm here
to accept responsibility...
495
00:28:10,231 --> 00:28:12,232
[Aletta] She never admitted
to faking cancer
496
00:28:12,233 --> 00:28:13,484
in her statement.
497
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:15,652
She was more worried
498
00:28:15,653 --> 00:28:17,780
about herself and how much time
she was gonna do.
499
00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:23,827
Eighteen months
was the recommended sentence,
500
00:28:23,828 --> 00:28:25,955
and I certainly didn't think
that was enough.
501
00:28:27,790 --> 00:28:29,208
And neither did the judge.
502
00:28:31,710 --> 00:28:32,962
[Charlie]
When the judge spoke...
503
00:28:34,588 --> 00:28:36,757
the whole courtroom gasped.
504
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:38,801
[♪ music concludes]
505
00:28:40,845 --> 00:28:42,596
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
506
00:28:50,396 --> 00:28:51,439
The judge really...
507
00:28:52,648 --> 00:28:54,608
{\an8}really understood
what this case was about.
508
00:28:58,112 --> 00:29:01,323
And how dangerous
someone like Amanda could be.
509
00:29:11,250 --> 00:29:13,501
This is part of the statement
that the judge gave
510
00:29:13,502 --> 00:29:15,337
during Amanda's sentencing.
[inhales sharply]
511
00:29:17,673 --> 00:29:20,300
"In considering the seriousness
of the crime,
512
00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:22,970
"there is no doubt
this is a very serious crime.
513
00:29:23,471 --> 00:29:25,847
"I have to further consider
public safety
514
00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:27,600
"and the need for deterrence.
515
00:29:28,851 --> 00:29:32,312
"I do find the public to be at
a significant risk from you.
516
00:29:32,313 --> 00:29:34,356
"I do believe
that this will happen again.
517
00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:39,027
"I will impose
an upward variance
518
00:29:39,028 --> 00:29:40,612
"of the guideline sentence,
519
00:29:40,613 --> 00:29:42,907
"and I will sentence you
to 60 months in prison."
520
00:29:48,746 --> 00:29:49,954
[♪ music fades]
521
00:29:49,955 --> 00:29:51,790
[♪ upbeat rhythmic music
playing]
522
00:29:53,125 --> 00:29:54,460
[Nancy] We were stunned.
523
00:29:55,753 --> 00:29:58,254
And you're quickly
calculating... [chuckles]
524
00:29:58,255 --> 00:30:00,758
...what that meant.
That meant five years.
525
00:30:02,718 --> 00:30:05,970
The judge also ordered Amanda
to pay restitution,
526
00:30:05,971 --> 00:30:07,598
which I think is fantastic.
527
00:30:09,558 --> 00:30:11,559
[Lisa] One of the things
that really struck me
528
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,145
that the judge said was...
529
00:30:14,396 --> 00:30:17,733
{\an8}that she was giving her
a stiff sentence
530
00:30:18,234 --> 00:30:20,694
because she was gonna
do it again.
531
00:30:21,487 --> 00:30:23,489
If she didn't have
a stiff sentence,
532
00:30:24,073 --> 00:30:25,533
she would do it again.
533
00:30:27,201 --> 00:30:28,619
[♪ music concludes]
534
00:30:30,246 --> 00:30:33,123
- [♪ soft rhythmic music playing]
- [indistinct chatter]
535
00:30:34,792 --> 00:30:36,751
[Charlie]
After Amanda was sentenced,
536
00:30:36,752 --> 00:30:39,880
I really wanted to try
and approach her.
537
00:30:40,214 --> 00:30:42,091
And I waited
for everybody to leave.
538
00:30:44,218 --> 00:30:46,387
And then Amanda did come out
with her lawyer.
539
00:30:47,638 --> 00:30:50,265
So, I followed them...
[chuckles softly]
540
00:30:50,266 --> 00:30:51,934
around the side
of the courtroom.
541
00:30:53,060 --> 00:30:56,104
Amanda, sorry to disturb you.
Um, I'm Charlie.
542
00:30:56,105 --> 00:30:57,523
I just wanted
to give you my card.
543
00:30:58,190 --> 00:31:01,484
And she took my card, and then,
544
00:31:01,485 --> 00:31:03,695
I didn't give her a chance
to speak.
545
00:31:03,696 --> 00:31:05,363
She kind of like went,
"Oh, thank you."
546
00:31:05,364 --> 00:31:06,448
And then, I walked off.
547
00:31:08,117 --> 00:31:09,367
Later that night,
548
00:31:09,368 --> 00:31:12,120
I got a text message
from Amanda.
549
00:31:12,121 --> 00:31:13,247
[phone notification chimes]
550
00:31:16,458 --> 00:31:19,461
"Hi, Charlie, thank you
for reaching out to me
551
00:31:20,671 --> 00:31:22,380
"in the way that you did.
552
00:31:22,381 --> 00:31:25,342
"You were kind,
polite and courteous."
553
00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,388
And then she said to me,
554
00:31:30,472 --> 00:31:33,434
"Let me know
if you want to talk."
555
00:31:34,268 --> 00:31:35,768
So, I replied.
556
00:31:35,769 --> 00:31:38,606
And then, that's when we started
to build a relationship.
557
00:31:40,357 --> 00:31:44,736
This went on
from September 2022,
558
00:31:44,737 --> 00:31:46,946
right through to the day
that I released the podcast,
559
00:31:46,947 --> 00:31:48,824
which was May 2023.
560
00:31:51,619 --> 00:31:54,163
Hey, Scamanda listeners,
it's Charlie here.
561
00:31:55,497 --> 00:31:58,041
Amanda couldn't listen
to the podcast in prison,
562
00:31:58,042 --> 00:32:00,293
but Cory and her mum listened
563
00:32:00,294 --> 00:32:02,420
and told her
that I was objective
564
00:32:02,421 --> 00:32:04,256
in the way
that I told the story.
565
00:32:09,178 --> 00:32:10,512
I was happy to hear that.
566
00:32:10,888 --> 00:32:12,305
And I've been building
that trust,
567
00:32:12,306 --> 00:32:15,100
hoping that she'll decide to put
more of her story out there.
568
00:32:18,062 --> 00:32:20,105
{\an8}[traffic whizzing]
569
00:32:23,901 --> 00:32:25,944
[♪ soft rhythmic music playing]
570
00:32:28,155 --> 00:32:30,990
All right.
[exhales, clicks tongue]
571
00:32:30,991 --> 00:32:33,993
I'm just waiting
to do a video call
572
00:32:33,994 --> 00:32:35,453
with Amanda in prison.
573
00:32:35,454 --> 00:32:37,414
And I've got
three minutes to go.
574
00:32:40,376 --> 00:32:44,671
She's agreed to speak to me,
but for it not to be recorded.
575
00:32:44,672 --> 00:32:47,507
So, I'm gonna go and have
a conversation with her,
576
00:32:47,508 --> 00:32:51,261
and then I will report back,
see what she says.
577
00:33:02,106 --> 00:33:03,315
Let's just wait.
578
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:08,654
Hi, Amanda.
579
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:10,864
[♪ music concludes]
580
00:33:12,032 --> 00:33:14,201
[♪ somber instrumental music
playing]
581
00:33:24,461 --> 00:33:26,170
{\an8}[sighs] Gosh, I don't even know
where to start.
582
00:33:26,171 --> 00:33:28,631
{\an8}So, we had
a 25-minute conversation.
583
00:33:28,632 --> 00:33:32,261
She told me that, um,
Cory and her are divorcing.
584
00:33:34,763 --> 00:33:37,641
We talked about Cory.
585
00:33:38,726 --> 00:33:42,228
Amanda said that
a lot of the money that she, um,
586
00:33:42,229 --> 00:33:45,273
raised through
saying she had cancer
587
00:33:45,274 --> 00:33:49,235
actually was spent
on Cory's divorce to Aletta
588
00:33:49,236 --> 00:33:53,073
and child custody,
and child support for Jessa.
589
00:33:55,784 --> 00:33:59,120
Amanda got really upset
at one point in the conversation
590
00:33:59,121 --> 00:34:00,038
about her children.
591
00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:03,000
It seemed very genuine.
592
00:34:04,334 --> 00:34:08,130
She was really crying
and very, very upset, sobbing.
593
00:34:09,131 --> 00:34:10,339
She said she is sorry
594
00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:13,135
and she does wanna
take accountability, and...
595
00:34:13,552 --> 00:34:15,428
But she...
It-- You know, she looked well.
596
00:34:15,429 --> 00:34:17,263
That was one thing
that surprised me.
597
00:34:17,264 --> 00:34:19,515
She looks well. And she is st--
598
00:34:19,516 --> 00:34:21,852
still saying that
she's got health problems.
599
00:34:22,686 --> 00:34:25,062
I honestly don't know...
[chuckles]
600
00:34:25,063 --> 00:34:27,357
- ...um, what I think about that.
- [♪ music fades]
601
00:34:29,610 --> 00:34:31,527
I don't know. I d-- I don't...
602
00:34:31,528 --> 00:34:34,156
I honestly don't know
whether that's true or not.
603
00:34:35,324 --> 00:34:37,117
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
604
00:34:39,620 --> 00:34:42,997
{\an8}When you're the victim
of a con or a scam,
605
00:34:42,998 --> 00:34:44,207
{\an8}or someone lying to you, like,
606
00:34:44,208 --> 00:34:46,459
{\an8}you feel like
you should have seen it.
607
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:48,962
You should have recognized it,
608
00:34:49,296 --> 00:34:54,467
and it makes you feel
less terribly, um,
609
00:34:54,468 --> 00:34:57,179
when there were other people
that went through it as well.
610
00:34:59,014 --> 00:35:00,766
[Charlie]
What you are about to hear
611
00:35:01,058 --> 00:35:02,392
is a true story.
612
00:35:03,352 --> 00:35:05,938
[Nancy] Doing the podcast,
it was a great experience.
613
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:10,566
{\an8}I knew that the story
was going to resonate
614
00:35:10,567 --> 00:35:12,152
{\an8}with a lot of people.
615
00:35:12,736 --> 00:35:16,782
But I was really shocked
at the response that we got.
616
00:35:18,242 --> 00:35:19,451
{\an8}- [Dermot] Scamanda.
- Scamanda.
617
00:35:19,827 --> 00:35:21,203
{\an8}-Scamanda.
- Scamanda.
618
00:35:21,578 --> 00:35:23,747
People were talking about it
all over the news,
619
00:35:24,414 --> 00:35:27,626
over social media,
posting about it.
620
00:35:28,043 --> 00:35:30,878
{\an8}Amanda has a huge problem.
She's a liar.
621
00:35:30,879 --> 00:35:32,464
{\an8}Who would do something
like this?
622
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,007
The story
is completely unhinged.
623
00:35:35,008 --> 00:35:37,093
[overlapping chatter]
624
00:35:37,094 --> 00:35:39,178
[Nancy] And it was
such a great feeling to know,
625
00:35:39,179 --> 00:35:41,472
"Okay,
this is resonating with people."
626
00:35:41,473 --> 00:35:44,184
And it was great to give a voice
627
00:35:44,768 --> 00:35:47,895
to so many of the people
I had been in contact with,
628
00:35:47,896 --> 00:35:49,231
over the years.
629
00:35:52,568 --> 00:35:55,028
[Cafiero] Hearing all of these
other pieces,
630
00:35:55,612 --> 00:35:56,947
it made me not feel alone,
631
00:35:57,823 --> 00:35:59,992
because other people
had been affected as well.
632
00:36:01,368 --> 00:36:02,953
But I went through, like,
633
00:36:04,079 --> 00:36:06,456
more than a decade of history
with this family.
634
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,291
I don't want to say
I always felt "Special,"
635
00:36:08,292 --> 00:36:10,377
but I felt like
I was owed an explanation.
636
00:36:11,503 --> 00:36:13,922
And I tried to go down
this rabbit hole.
637
00:36:14,423 --> 00:36:15,173
Okay.
638
00:36:19,428 --> 00:36:21,054
"May 4th, 2022."
639
00:36:23,015 --> 00:36:24,932
{\an8}- Which was after the sentencing.
- [phone chimes]
640
00:36:24,933 --> 00:36:27,560
{\an8}[Cafiero] I just sent the text,
"Amanda, I'm so sorry
641
00:36:27,561 --> 00:36:29,354
{\an8}"for what you and your family
are going through."
642
00:36:29,688 --> 00:36:30,980
[phone chimes]
643
00:36:30,981 --> 00:36:32,523
[Cafiero] Then she said,
"This really means a lot.
644
00:36:32,524 --> 00:36:35,193
"I do want to talk to you,
now that I can and explain."
645
00:36:37,070 --> 00:36:39,614
And, um,
she wrote this one to me
646
00:36:39,615 --> 00:36:43,452
a couple of days before
she was... Went to jail.
647
00:36:43,911 --> 00:36:45,202
[phone notification chimes]
648
00:36:45,203 --> 00:36:46,746
[Cafiero] "Hi, Rebecca,
how are you doing?
649
00:36:46,747 --> 00:36:48,623
"I'm really sorry it took me
so long to get back to you.
650
00:36:48,624 --> 00:36:50,249
"I'm struggling
and I honestly don't know
651
00:36:50,250 --> 00:36:51,627
"where to start
or even what to say."
652
00:36:52,169 --> 00:36:56,672
[phone notifications chiming]
653
00:36:56,673 --> 00:36:58,467
[Cafiero]
I still don't believe her.
654
00:36:59,051 --> 00:37:00,593
At this point,
655
00:37:00,594 --> 00:37:04,264
there's no possibility
of her recovering my trust.
656
00:37:06,016 --> 00:37:08,560
Because how can you,
657
00:37:09,144 --> 00:37:10,812
when you've been lied to
for years and years?
658
00:37:11,647 --> 00:37:13,356
At this point,
I can't believe anything
659
00:37:13,357 --> 00:37:16,068
that comes out of either Peggy
or Amanda's mouth.
660
00:37:17,903 --> 00:37:19,988
Because Peggy emailed me
as well.
661
00:37:20,530 --> 00:37:21,864
[notification chimes]
662
00:37:21,865 --> 00:37:23,742
[♪ intriguing instrumental music
playing]
663
00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:27,036
[Cafiero]
"She finally came clean
664
00:37:27,037 --> 00:37:28,872
"with the family last September,
665
00:37:29,456 --> 00:37:31,165
"and I've never felt
so betrayed and stupid
666
00:37:31,166 --> 00:37:32,542
"that I didn't
recognize it sooner."
667
00:37:35,754 --> 00:37:38,089
She had made all these claims
that she'd been
668
00:37:38,090 --> 00:37:40,092
to doctor's appointments
for years.
669
00:37:40,467 --> 00:37:44,470
And that did not add up
with the fact that she said
670
00:37:44,471 --> 00:37:47,057
that she just found out
in September.
671
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:54,022
I felt so targeted
by both Peggy and Amanda.
672
00:37:56,525 --> 00:37:58,777
And I don't know
that we'll ever know the truth.
673
00:37:59,319 --> 00:38:01,862
I don't know
if something happened
674
00:38:01,863 --> 00:38:03,823
in that household,
that created it.
675
00:38:03,824 --> 00:38:06,159
I don't know
if Amanda naturally...
676
00:38:07,619 --> 00:38:09,371
was looking for attention.
I don't know.
677
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,043
I don't think
that Amanda sat down
678
00:38:16,044 --> 00:38:17,670
and masterminded this plan,
679
00:38:17,671 --> 00:38:19,839
but I did wonder
where she got the idea
680
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,800
of lying about cancer from.
681
00:38:24,011 --> 00:38:25,428
Was it from Lisa,
682
00:38:25,429 --> 00:38:27,973
who had a friend
who fundraised for cancer?
683
00:38:28,765 --> 00:38:30,099
Or was it Jaymie?
684
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:32,351
Amanda got very close to Jaymie
at the time
685
00:38:32,352 --> 00:38:34,187
that she was being treated
for cancer.
686
00:38:36,606 --> 00:38:37,940
[♪ music fades]
687
00:38:37,941 --> 00:38:40,693
{\an8}I'm going on almost 20 years
cancer-free.
688
00:38:40,694 --> 00:38:42,445
[♪ pensive instrumental music
playing]
689
00:38:42,446 --> 00:38:46,116
[Jaymie] I don't know
that she got the idea
690
00:38:47,075 --> 00:38:50,412
to fake cancer
from my experience.
691
00:38:50,996 --> 00:38:53,415
I don't know what goes on
in that woman's head.
692
00:38:55,208 --> 00:38:58,794
I think Amanda and Cory
just wanted things
693
00:38:58,795 --> 00:39:00,130
to go their way.
694
00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:01,923
And they would do
695
00:39:02,591 --> 00:39:04,341
whatever they felt
they needed to do,
696
00:39:04,342 --> 00:39:08,512
wanted to do, to get their way.
697
00:39:08,513 --> 00:39:10,306
You have highly aggressive
blood cancer.
698
00:39:10,307 --> 00:39:11,891
It's metastasized to your lungs.
699
00:39:11,892 --> 00:39:13,392
[Aletta] My kids
weren't the only ones
700
00:39:13,393 --> 00:39:17,564
{\an8}that went through this.
She hurt tons of people.
701
00:39:18,648 --> 00:39:22,611
And I don't think
she's gonna come out reformed.
702
00:39:23,653 --> 00:39:24,404
I really don't.
703
00:39:27,407 --> 00:39:29,366
{\an8}She's full of crap. [chuckles]
704
00:39:29,367 --> 00:39:30,869
{\an8}And she'll always be
full of crap.
705
00:39:31,828 --> 00:39:34,748
[Jose] She's smart enough
to be devious,
706
00:39:35,916 --> 00:39:37,334
and to another level.
707
00:39:38,126 --> 00:39:42,338
{\an8}And she knows
that it has effect on people,
708
00:39:42,339 --> 00:39:45,467
{\an8}how she looks,
how she carries herself.
709
00:39:46,676 --> 00:39:48,053
Because she's an actor,
710
00:39:49,012 --> 00:39:52,474
she's in that character 24/7.
She's still a victim.
711
00:39:53,850 --> 00:39:55,727
Somebody's done her wrong.
712
00:39:56,144 --> 00:39:57,479
I don't think
that's gonna change.
713
00:39:58,939 --> 00:40:00,189
I highly doubt
714
00:40:00,190 --> 00:40:02,525
she's gonna step out
of the prison gates and be like,
715
00:40:02,526 --> 00:40:05,737
"What good can I, you know,
bring into the world?"
716
00:40:06,113 --> 00:40:08,573
I'm sure she's got
something else lined up already.
717
00:40:09,491 --> 00:40:12,410
So, like,
what's the next level for her?
718
00:40:15,038 --> 00:40:17,833
{\an8}[Amanda] I've always lived
this battle so publicly.
719
00:40:18,250 --> 00:40:19,167
{\an8}I was like, "God," like,
720
00:40:20,460 --> 00:40:22,086
{\an8}"I don't wanna have
such a sad end to the story
721
00:40:22,087 --> 00:40:24,630
{\an8}"for everybody," you know?
But-- But it is.
722
00:40:24,631 --> 00:40:26,258
[♪ music concludes]
723
00:40:27,342 --> 00:40:29,094
[♪ uplifting instrumental
music playing]
724
00:41:29,154 --> 00:41:30,488
[♪ music concludes]