1 00:00:02,613 --> 00:00:08,213 -[all] Taylor! Taylor! Taylor! -Back up, back up. 2 00:00:19,073 --> 00:00:22,473 [Zing] I really can't think of that many other pop stars 3 00:00:22,473 --> 00:00:24,443 who have turned what is a boardroom deal 4 00:00:24,443 --> 00:00:26,913 into the stuff of a fandom war. 5 00:00:26,913 --> 00:00:30,573 She literally called on her fans to apply pressure 6 00:00:30,573 --> 00:00:33,073 on Scooter and people who know him. 7 00:00:35,013 --> 00:00:36,643 [text notification chimes] 8 00:00:42,013 --> 00:00:44,343 [Scooter] I just think we live in a time of toxic division 9 00:00:44,343 --> 00:00:46,443 and people thinking that social media is 10 00:00:46,443 --> 00:00:49,813 the appropriate place to air out on each other and not have conversations. 11 00:00:49,813 --> 00:00:52,373 When it gets to a place where there's death threats 12 00:00:52,373 --> 00:00:55,573 and there's people being threatened in the manner they're at, 13 00:00:55,573 --> 00:00:56,743 I just think it's got out of hand. 14 00:00:56,743 --> 00:00:57,843 Stand right here. 15 00:00:57,843 --> 00:01:00,143 [Mikael] Scott Borchetta, who signed Taylor Swift's 16 00:01:00,143 --> 00:01:02,373 Big Machine, he sold the label, 17 00:01:02,373 --> 00:01:04,943 and with it her Masters of her early work, 18 00:01:04,943 --> 00:01:09,113 to Scooter Braun, who Taylor had long viewed 19 00:01:09,113 --> 00:01:10,973 as a nemesis. 20 00:01:10,973 --> 00:01:12,643 [Rachel] They were all harassed. 21 00:01:12,643 --> 00:01:15,443 If you were in any way associated professionally 22 00:01:15,443 --> 00:01:19,013 with these two men, you were made a target online 23 00:01:19,013 --> 00:01:21,043 by Taylor Swift's fan base. 24 00:01:22,343 --> 00:01:26,473 Legally, Scooter had the absolute right to buy this asset. 25 00:01:26,473 --> 00:01:28,673 The truth didn't matter. 26 00:01:28,673 --> 00:01:31,413 She had the ability to rally her fans. 27 00:01:34,313 --> 00:01:36,373 It wasn't David versus Goliath. 28 00:01:36,373 --> 00:01:38,473 It was Goliath versus Goliath. 29 00:01:40,573 --> 00:01:42,213 [all cheering] 30 00:01:42,213 --> 00:01:45,973 Taylor Swift is in charge of an army, and she's the general. 31 00:01:47,973 --> 00:01:50,973 [Zing] It becomes very visible in public in a way 32 00:01:50,973 --> 00:01:53,443 that not a lot of boardroom politics are. 33 00:01:55,943 --> 00:01:59,013 [Marina] I do not see that he did anything wrong. 34 00:01:59,013 --> 00:02:01,913 He paid for his rights fair and square. 35 00:02:01,913 --> 00:02:04,513 He paid a lot of money for his rights. 36 00:02:04,513 --> 00:02:07,913 [Lucas] To go from being this sort of celebrated manager 37 00:02:07,913 --> 00:02:09,843 to being seen as the villain on the internet, 38 00:02:09,843 --> 00:02:12,073 I think was pretty tough for him. 39 00:02:12,073 --> 00:02:14,513 She was creating this victim narrative 40 00:02:14,513 --> 00:02:16,813 over something that was more complicated 41 00:02:16,813 --> 00:02:19,473 and was a business deal and wasn't some 42 00:02:19,473 --> 00:02:21,043 bullying attack against her. 43 00:02:24,073 --> 00:02:29,013 Taylor is very down to earth. She's very genuine, very real. 44 00:02:29,013 --> 00:02:31,843 [woman]To have this collection of moments and stories 45 00:02:31,843 --> 00:02:33,443 and these powerful things 46 00:02:33,443 --> 00:02:36,213 taken away from her and sold without her knowledge 47 00:02:36,213 --> 00:02:38,713 was truly like a gut punch. 48 00:02:38,713 --> 00:02:42,043 She knew Scooter expected her to sit down and shut up 49 00:02:42,043 --> 00:02:43,173 and be a good girl. 50 00:02:43,173 --> 00:02:45,143 And she wasn't going to take it that way. 51 00:02:48,713 --> 00:02:51,443 [woman]We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars. 52 00:02:51,443 --> 00:02:53,673 We're talking about the catalog of one 53 00:02:53,673 --> 00:02:56,113 of the most beloved artists in the world. 54 00:02:56,113 --> 00:02:58,143 There was a lot at stake. 55 00:02:58,143 --> 00:03:02,843 ♪ Tell my soul Only love forgives ♪ 56 00:03:02,843 --> 00:03:04,813 ♪ Only love forgives ♪ 57 00:03:04,813 --> 00:03:09,413 ♪ Tell my soul Only love forgives ♪ 58 00:03:09,413 --> 00:03:11,873 ♪ Only love forgives ♪ 59 00:03:11,873 --> 00:03:15,273 ♪ I've been playing with fire ♪ 60 00:03:15,273 --> 00:03:17,743 ♪ It's got me on the devil's list ♪ 61 00:03:17,743 --> 00:03:22,243 ♪ I tell my soul♪ 62 00:03:22,243 --> 00:03:26,673 ♪ Only love, only love forgives ♪ 63 00:03:35,773 --> 00:03:39,872 [all cheering] 64 00:03:41,013 --> 00:03:43,473 [Zing]Taylor is more than just a musician. 65 00:03:43,473 --> 00:03:46,313 She is, in her own right, a kind of pop culture giant. 66 00:03:46,313 --> 00:03:48,872 [all] We love you, Taylor! 67 00:03:48,872 --> 00:03:53,213 Taylor has a really close relationship with her fans, with her Swifties. 68 00:03:53,213 --> 00:03:55,643 She has power in a very different way to Scooter, 69 00:03:55,643 --> 00:03:57,473 and that's kind of cultural power, 70 00:03:57,473 --> 00:04:00,413 which means that she has people who are happy to ride 71 00:04:00,413 --> 00:04:03,443 to her defense on socials whenever she wants. 72 00:04:03,443 --> 00:04:05,443 [all cheering] 73 00:04:05,443 --> 00:04:08,073 [Rachel] Fan clubs have always existed, 74 00:04:08,073 --> 00:04:10,113 but now we call them fan armies. 75 00:04:11,413 --> 00:04:15,443 I think just the scale of followers that Taylor has 76 00:04:15,443 --> 00:04:21,273 creates an effect of that feeling of mob mentality. 77 00:04:21,273 --> 00:04:24,873 There's really very little else like it just because of 78 00:04:24,873 --> 00:04:27,673 the way that she connects with her fans. 79 00:04:27,673 --> 00:04:30,713 I don't want to miss any show of Taylor 80 00:04:30,713 --> 00:04:34,613 because I was a Swiftie since I was 15 81 00:04:34,613 --> 00:04:37,343 and now I'm 28 years old 82 00:04:37,343 --> 00:04:41,043 [sniffles] and it's, you know, it's 13 years. 83 00:04:42,213 --> 00:04:44,313 [Zing] I think what this all boils down to 84 00:04:44,313 --> 00:04:46,773 is whose side are you on? 85 00:04:46,773 --> 00:04:50,373 If you take Scooter's side, it's about someone weaponizing 86 00:04:50,373 --> 00:04:53,913 their fan base, their ability to make themselves out to be 87 00:04:53,913 --> 00:04:57,213 a victim in order to cast doubt 88 00:04:57,213 --> 00:05:00,543 and torpedo a deal that, by all accounts, 89 00:05:00,543 --> 00:05:03,543 is financially and business-wise completely sound. 90 00:05:14,313 --> 00:05:16,813 [upbeat music playing] 91 00:05:18,513 --> 00:05:21,573 [Lucas]Scooter Braun was one of, if not the only, 92 00:05:21,573 --> 00:05:25,373 music manager of his era who people knew, who was kind of famous. 93 00:05:26,613 --> 00:05:29,613 Partly because he'd been so closely tied to 94 00:05:29,613 --> 00:05:33,243 the rise of Justin Bieber, who was one of the most famous celebrities 95 00:05:33,243 --> 00:05:35,613 in the world, and Scooter was his manager. 96 00:05:37,043 --> 00:05:39,273 [Alex] The typical picture of a music manager 97 00:05:39,273 --> 00:05:41,413 is either a suit and a dealmaker, 98 00:05:41,413 --> 00:05:45,073 or perhaps a shady Svengali like Lou Pearlman, 99 00:05:45,073 --> 00:05:46,913 or an unseen force. 100 00:05:48,073 --> 00:05:50,013 Scooter's very different. 101 00:05:50,013 --> 00:05:52,443 Scooter's management style was to be the big brother 102 00:05:52,443 --> 00:05:55,073 to his main artists, and I think that comes through. 103 00:05:55,073 --> 00:05:58,543 There's a lot of affection, there's a lot of laughter, 104 00:05:58,543 --> 00:06:02,113 and there's just an easy way he has around his big stars. 105 00:06:02,113 --> 00:06:04,013 I couldn't be more happy that I met him 106 00:06:04,013 --> 00:06:07,273 -and he helped me get to where I am. -[woman] That's so nice. 107 00:06:11,013 --> 00:06:13,643 [Alex] I first got fascinated with Scooter Braun in 2009 108 00:06:13,643 --> 00:06:16,043 when we covered Justin Bieber for the first time. 109 00:06:16,043 --> 00:06:18,743 And I wondered, who was it who found him 110 00:06:18,743 --> 00:06:20,673 on YouTube and put him out into the culture? 111 00:06:30,143 --> 00:06:32,013 Scooter was born in 1981. 112 00:06:32,013 --> 00:06:34,343 He grew up in Greenwich, Connecticut, 113 00:06:34,343 --> 00:06:38,543 perhaps the greatest bastion of white Anglo-Saxon Protestant America. 114 00:06:38,543 --> 00:06:42,273 His family, however, were Jewish Holocaust survivors. 115 00:06:42,273 --> 00:06:44,943 And it's clear to anyone who's spent time with him 116 00:06:44,943 --> 00:06:46,813 or even just seen his social media that 117 00:06:46,813 --> 00:06:49,773 his family and their history were very important to him. 118 00:06:49,773 --> 00:06:53,143 He was the ultimate insider and outsider. 119 00:06:53,143 --> 00:06:57,373 [Scooter] The lessons I have learned from this research are threefold. 120 00:06:57,373 --> 00:07:01,773 First, a multicultural society is essential for human rights 121 00:07:01,773 --> 00:07:02,773 to survive. 122 00:07:02,773 --> 00:07:04,343 [Alex] It's interesting that at the same age 123 00:07:04,343 --> 00:07:07,043 that Justin Bieber was making YouTube videos, 124 00:07:07,043 --> 00:07:11,913 Scooter was making a film about his family's Holocaust experiences. 125 00:07:11,913 --> 00:07:14,113 My grandparents are Holocaust survivors. 126 00:07:14,113 --> 00:07:15,573 My grandmother was in Auschwitz, 127 00:07:15,573 --> 00:07:16,973 my grandfather was in Dachau. 128 00:07:16,973 --> 00:07:19,243 And I grew up, as far as I can remember, 129 00:07:19,243 --> 00:07:21,013 with the stories of the Holocaust, 130 00:07:21,013 --> 00:07:23,473 of why certain family members aren't here, 131 00:07:23,473 --> 00:07:24,773 what happened to us. 132 00:07:26,213 --> 00:07:29,013 At one point, someone scratched a swastika 133 00:07:29,013 --> 00:07:31,543 into his car, and he was known to get into scraps over 134 00:07:31,543 --> 00:07:33,473 anti-Semitic comments, though mostly when 135 00:07:33,473 --> 00:07:35,373 other people were being picked on. 136 00:07:35,373 --> 00:07:36,913 Realizing that you're different, 137 00:07:36,913 --> 00:07:38,513 realizing that you see the world different, 138 00:07:38,513 --> 00:07:41,473 when you're growing up with that little bit of bravery 139 00:07:41,473 --> 00:07:45,873 and a little bit of fear, you recognize that in other people. 140 00:07:45,873 --> 00:07:49,013 And I wanted to help people. I wanted to be a part of it. 141 00:07:49,013 --> 00:07:52,813 I think what I ended up doing as a job was helping 142 00:07:52,813 --> 00:07:54,273 people go after their dreams. 143 00:07:54,273 --> 00:07:55,813 [upbeat music playing] 144 00:07:59,773 --> 00:08:02,513 [Alex] Scooter went to college at Emory in Atlanta. 145 00:08:05,273 --> 00:08:07,843 He wasn't a big partier, but he threw these big bashes 146 00:08:07,843 --> 00:08:10,013 that drew up to hundreds of people. 147 00:08:10,013 --> 00:08:12,713 Jermaine Dupri and his then-girlfriend Janet Jackson 148 00:08:12,713 --> 00:08:15,313 came to one, and that was Scooter's big break. 149 00:08:16,343 --> 00:08:18,213 Jermaine ended up hiring Scooter, 150 00:08:18,213 --> 00:08:20,673 seemingly based on his ability to throw a party, 151 00:08:20,673 --> 00:08:24,743 and he made him head of marketing at Dupri's label So So Def. 152 00:08:24,743 --> 00:08:27,373 He was soon throwing bashes for everyone 153 00:08:27,373 --> 00:08:29,973 from Shaquille O'Neal to Britney Spears. 154 00:08:29,973 --> 00:08:33,513 That's where Scooter first cut his teeth professionally in the music business. 155 00:08:34,413 --> 00:08:36,212 He had already decided he wanted to be 156 00:08:36,212 --> 00:08:38,043 a music manager by that point. 157 00:08:38,043 --> 00:08:40,373 And he was on the lookout for talent when he came across 158 00:08:40,373 --> 00:08:42,743 a YouTube video of a skinny kid named Justin Bieber. 159 00:08:44,043 --> 00:08:45,573 [Justin]When I put out my videos on YouTube, 160 00:08:45,573 --> 00:08:47,343 it was kind of just for my friends and family. 161 00:08:47,343 --> 00:08:50,373 And to see it go so big and to have someone 162 00:08:50,373 --> 00:08:51,913 like Scooter that was able to help me, 163 00:08:51,913 --> 00:08:54,643 you know, show it to the world and do what I love, 164 00:08:54,643 --> 00:08:55,943 I think it's been incredible. 165 00:08:55,943 --> 00:08:57,413 And when I saw him the first time, 166 00:08:57,413 --> 00:08:58,613 I always knew we would get here. 167 00:08:58,613 --> 00:09:01,413 And I think now that he's 18 and becoming a man, you know, 168 00:09:01,413 --> 00:09:04,473 how good of a man, how he carries himself will define how far he goes 169 00:09:04,473 --> 00:09:06,613 'cause his talent, you know, is endless. 170 00:09:08,443 --> 00:09:10,543 [Alex] Bieber's success was a catalyst for Scooter 171 00:09:10,543 --> 00:09:11,573 and his entire business. 172 00:09:13,443 --> 00:09:16,913 In 2017, WSJ, The Wall Street Journalmagazine, 173 00:09:16,913 --> 00:09:19,513 asked me to profile him at length. 174 00:09:19,513 --> 00:09:21,673 We had a lot of long conversations. 175 00:09:21,673 --> 00:09:23,543 He was already thinking about his next act. 176 00:09:23,543 --> 00:09:26,173 Continuing to diversify within the music business 177 00:09:26,173 --> 00:09:29,913 and cement his mogul status, he had an eye on bigger things. 178 00:09:40,143 --> 00:09:42,973 [Lucas]There's a story initially in the Wall Street Journal about 179 00:09:42,973 --> 00:09:46,743 and Scott Borchetta selling Big Machine to Scooter Braun. 180 00:09:46,743 --> 00:09:50,243 And immediately there's a strong reaction to it online. 181 00:09:50,243 --> 00:09:53,943 It was clear that Taylor Swift knew what was coming because 182 00:09:53,943 --> 00:09:56,913 she was ready with a Tumblr post in which 183 00:09:56,913 --> 00:10:00,873 she attacked both Scott Borchetta and Scooter Braun, 184 00:10:00,873 --> 00:10:04,773 Borchetta for basically selling her work out from underneath her. 185 00:10:04,773 --> 00:10:08,813 And Scooter for buying it and for just being a bad person, 186 00:10:08,813 --> 00:10:12,243 which takes over the news pretty quickly. 187 00:10:12,243 --> 00:10:14,573 Like, the sale becomes less important than the fact 188 00:10:14,573 --> 00:10:17,173 that Taylor is upset about the sale. 189 00:10:17,173 --> 00:10:19,873 Taylor Swift, the pop star speaking out after 190 00:10:19,873 --> 00:10:22,473 a top manager brought the rights to her music, 191 00:10:22,473 --> 00:10:24,143 and she is not happy about it. 192 00:10:24,143 --> 00:10:26,543 Now that company, along with her catalog, 193 00:10:26,543 --> 00:10:29,813 has sold for $300 million to someone who Swift claims 194 00:10:29,813 --> 00:10:33,073 once tried to dismantle her musical legacy. 195 00:10:33,073 --> 00:10:35,743 Braun recently purchased Big Machine Label Group, 196 00:10:35,743 --> 00:10:39,443 which gives him ownership of all of Swift's original recordings 197 00:10:39,443 --> 00:10:41,913 of her past six albums. 198 00:10:41,913 --> 00:10:44,013 [Alex] It's too good a business opportunity. 199 00:10:44,013 --> 00:10:47,173 If you said the most successful pop artists 200 00:10:47,173 --> 00:10:49,743 in the world's Masters are up for sale, do you want to buy them? 201 00:10:49,743 --> 00:10:50,973 Yeah. 202 00:10:50,973 --> 00:10:54,013 The business version of him would see the value in it. 203 00:10:54,013 --> 00:10:55,273 I don't think there's any doubt of that. 204 00:10:56,073 --> 00:10:57,973 As much as Scooter wants to be liked, 205 00:10:57,973 --> 00:10:59,813 he makes no apologies for being a businessman. 206 00:11:00,743 --> 00:11:03,513 He paid for his rights fair and square. 207 00:11:03,513 --> 00:11:05,743 He paid a lot of money for his rights. 208 00:11:05,743 --> 00:11:10,413 So from his point of view, I'm sure he's confused why he got into hot water. 209 00:11:14,573 --> 00:11:18,143 [Lucas] The level of antipathy that she seemed to feel 210 00:11:18,143 --> 00:11:20,573 towards Scooter Braun was surprising. 211 00:11:20,573 --> 00:11:24,543 And it was something that I think a lot of us tried to figure out. 212 00:11:25,543 --> 00:11:27,473 What was the motivation? 213 00:11:27,473 --> 00:11:30,343 I don't think she's been fully honest about why 214 00:11:30,343 --> 00:11:32,443 she feels so strongly about Scooter Braun. 215 00:11:32,443 --> 00:11:34,313 -[man 1] Taylor. -[man 2] Taylor. 216 00:11:40,543 --> 00:11:42,913 -[woman vocalizing] -[acoustic music playing] 217 00:11:52,743 --> 00:11:56,143 [Zing] When Taylor was a kid, she moves to Nashville 218 00:11:56,143 --> 00:11:58,713 and she plunges into the music world. 219 00:11:59,783 --> 00:12:01,883 [Taylor] Y'all, like he said, I'm 16. 220 00:12:01,883 --> 00:12:04,743 Don't know if I'm allowed to be in here or not, but whatever. 221 00:12:04,743 --> 00:12:05,643 Um... 222 00:12:07,013 --> 00:12:09,513 She was in an industry showcase when she caught 223 00:12:09,513 --> 00:12:12,373 the eye of a record executive called Scott Borchetta, 224 00:12:12,373 --> 00:12:15,743 who was setting up a label called Big Machine. 225 00:12:15,743 --> 00:12:19,073 [Lucas] Scott Borchetta was a very talented record executive. 226 00:12:19,073 --> 00:12:21,473 He had a big part in turning Taylor Swift 227 00:12:21,473 --> 00:12:23,373 into the star that she was. 228 00:12:23,373 --> 00:12:25,913 I was just smitten on the spot. 229 00:12:25,913 --> 00:12:29,413 -It was like a lightning bolt. - [Taylor] The best part about getting a record deal 230 00:12:29,413 --> 00:12:31,783 was that it wasn't just a record deal. 231 00:12:31,783 --> 00:12:33,813 It was the right deal for me. 232 00:12:33,813 --> 00:12:36,143 I'm just so grateful that I got the right one 233 00:12:36,143 --> 00:12:40,113 and that I'm with people that I believe in and that they believe in me. 234 00:12:41,843 --> 00:12:45,013 [Dr. Jennifer]In a documentary called A Place in This World, 235 00:12:45,013 --> 00:12:50,543 you see a younger Taylor Swift talking just jubilantly 236 00:12:50,543 --> 00:12:54,413 about how happy she is to be with Scott, 237 00:12:54,413 --> 00:12:58,243 be at that record label, how that's the only place for her. 238 00:12:58,243 --> 00:13:00,243 You can see her, she's in the recording booth 239 00:13:00,243 --> 00:13:03,373 with just absolute joy on her face. 240 00:13:03,373 --> 00:13:06,883 It seemed like a really symbiotic relationship at that time. 241 00:13:06,883 --> 00:13:11,313 She was this rising star, they were this new entity, 242 00:13:11,313 --> 00:13:15,313 and it just was right people, right place for both of them. 243 00:13:15,313 --> 00:13:18,113 So things have not always had all the animosity 244 00:13:18,113 --> 00:13:19,413 that we see today. 245 00:13:20,783 --> 00:13:24,073 [Zing] Taylor signs with Scott Borchetta's Big Machine Records, 246 00:13:24,073 --> 00:13:28,213 and as part of a cash advance, she agrees to give Big Machine 247 00:13:28,213 --> 00:13:30,043 the Masters to her first six albums. 248 00:13:30,943 --> 00:13:34,143 [man] Excellent. Looks great. 249 00:13:34,143 --> 00:13:36,413 [Neama] Copyright law contains three components. 250 00:13:37,973 --> 00:13:41,843 The lyrics, the music, and the recording. 251 00:13:41,843 --> 00:13:45,013 If the artist wrote the song, they own the rights 252 00:13:45,013 --> 00:13:47,313 to both the lyrics and the music. 253 00:13:47,313 --> 00:13:51,173 But the recording company owns the rights to the recording. 254 00:13:51,173 --> 00:13:53,613 That's called a Master. 255 00:13:53,613 --> 00:13:58,043 [Marina] Big Machine basically took a chance on an unknown artist. 256 00:13:58,043 --> 00:14:01,843 And the studio determined that what they want in return 257 00:14:01,843 --> 00:14:05,973 is the physical manifestation of the performance, 258 00:14:05,973 --> 00:14:07,843 which is the Master recording. 259 00:14:10,713 --> 00:14:12,673 Thank you so much New York City. 260 00:14:12,673 --> 00:14:15,043 [Neama] As the artist, Taylor owns the rights 261 00:14:15,043 --> 00:14:18,013 to the lyrics and the music, and the record company owns 262 00:14:18,013 --> 00:14:21,013 the rights to the original recording. 263 00:14:21,013 --> 00:14:24,743 This is standard in most recording agreements. 264 00:14:24,743 --> 00:14:28,243 [indistinct chatter] 265 00:14:30,173 --> 00:14:33,373 [Marina] Taylor did get to record six albums. 266 00:14:33,373 --> 00:14:36,343 They paid for the recording, they paid for the marketing. 267 00:14:36,343 --> 00:14:38,913 On behalf of Big Machine Records and our partners 268 00:14:38,913 --> 00:14:41,513 Universal Music Group Worldwide, 269 00:14:41,513 --> 00:14:44,343 we are so proud to present to you this plaque that 270 00:14:44,343 --> 00:14:48,613 indicates you have sold more than 20 million records worldwide. 271 00:14:48,613 --> 00:14:50,743 -[gasps] -[all clapping and cheering] 272 00:14:50,743 --> 00:14:52,343 Oh, my God. 273 00:14:57,243 --> 00:14:59,913 Famously, she used her first paycheck to buy 274 00:14:59,913 --> 00:15:03,743 a Lexus convertible as a kind of snub to the popular girls. 275 00:15:03,743 --> 00:15:06,943 She's talked about this as being a real kind of F.U. moment 276 00:15:06,943 --> 00:15:10,173 in her career where she kind of says, you know, 277 00:15:10,173 --> 00:15:12,613 you girls were busy not inviting me to things, 278 00:15:12,613 --> 00:15:15,473 going to parties while I've just used my first paycheck 279 00:15:15,473 --> 00:15:18,573 to buy the car that Regina George drives in Mean Girls. 280 00:15:18,573 --> 00:15:21,743 So it kind of really shows you what she was about 281 00:15:21,743 --> 00:15:23,673 from a very young age. She's really hardworking, 282 00:15:23,673 --> 00:15:27,413 she's super talented, but she likes to kind of keep score. 283 00:15:27,413 --> 00:15:29,273 And you know, she's not above holding a grudge 284 00:15:29,273 --> 00:15:32,313 and she likes to get one over other people. 285 00:15:32,313 --> 00:15:34,783 She got everything out of that contract 286 00:15:34,783 --> 00:15:36,943 that she could possibly want. 287 00:15:36,943 --> 00:15:41,813 Big Machine made her the star that she is today. 288 00:15:43,543 --> 00:15:45,043 Is it a fair bargain? 289 00:15:45,743 --> 00:15:47,413 It has worked so far. 290 00:15:47,413 --> 00:15:51,243 She might have moral objections, but those don't, 291 00:15:51,243 --> 00:15:54,543 unfortunately, don't always count in the court of law. 292 00:16:04,313 --> 00:16:08,073 [Zing] Taylor's Tumblr post kind of kicks off this online firestorm. 293 00:16:09,473 --> 00:16:12,713 So it becomes very visible in public in a way that 294 00:16:12,713 --> 00:16:15,783 not a lot of boardroom politics are. 295 00:16:15,783 --> 00:16:18,173 It becomes, because of Taylor's celebrity 296 00:16:18,173 --> 00:16:20,613 and her openness and posting about it on Tumblr, 297 00:16:20,613 --> 00:16:22,073 much bigger than that. 298 00:16:24,113 --> 00:16:26,843 [man] Taylor talks about not having consented 299 00:16:26,843 --> 00:16:29,783 and her Masters being stolen. 300 00:16:29,783 --> 00:16:33,713 I've seen no evidence that anything was stolen from Taylor Swift. 301 00:16:34,883 --> 00:16:38,743 And I don't know where consent comes into it. 302 00:16:38,743 --> 00:16:43,413 Her consent was not required for the label to sell itself 303 00:16:43,413 --> 00:16:44,613 to someone else. 304 00:16:45,843 --> 00:16:48,673 [Neama]Taylor says that she became aware of the deal 305 00:16:48,673 --> 00:16:50,473 at the same time as the rest of the world. 306 00:16:50,473 --> 00:16:53,443 And that's one of the key things that upset her. 307 00:16:53,443 --> 00:16:57,013 Taylor also claims that she wasn't given the opportunity 308 00:16:57,013 --> 00:17:00,543 to buy those Masters outright herself. 309 00:17:00,543 --> 00:17:04,043 [Lucas] It's very hard for me to believe that Taylor Swift 310 00:17:04,043 --> 00:17:07,273 did not know that that deal was coming in some way. 311 00:17:07,273 --> 00:17:10,112 I also believe that she probably didn't get 312 00:17:10,112 --> 00:17:12,612 the chance to buy her music in the way that she wanted 313 00:17:12,612 --> 00:17:15,173 and feels that she was wronged by Scott Borchetta, 314 00:17:15,173 --> 00:17:18,142 which then forces Scott Borchetta to respond 315 00:17:18,142 --> 00:17:20,513 and try to say, this is what really happened. 316 00:17:21,743 --> 00:17:25,243 [Marina]Scott Borchetta denies Taylor's version of events 317 00:17:25,243 --> 00:17:27,343 saying, you know, it's time for some truth. 318 00:17:28,412 --> 00:17:32,213 Scott Borchetta says that he personally texted Taylor 319 00:17:32,213 --> 00:17:34,783 to tell her about the deal and that she had 320 00:17:34,783 --> 00:17:38,073 every opportunity to own not only her Masters, 321 00:17:38,073 --> 00:17:41,213 but everything associated with her career. 322 00:17:41,213 --> 00:17:44,443 And he attaches the documents and the evidence to prove it. 323 00:17:52,813 --> 00:17:57,843 This document appears to show that Taylor and Big Machine 324 00:17:57,843 --> 00:18:03,143 were negotiating terms upon which she could acquire ownership 325 00:18:03,143 --> 00:18:04,613 of her Master recordings, 326 00:18:04,613 --> 00:18:07,273 notwithstanding the public comments of Taylor that 327 00:18:07,273 --> 00:18:09,213 she was never offered such a right. 328 00:18:10,543 --> 00:18:14,613 [Neama reading] 329 00:18:22,943 --> 00:18:25,543 ...went over this document in great detail 330 00:18:25,543 --> 00:18:28,743 and reported the terms to her in great detail. 331 00:18:28,743 --> 00:18:31,813 [Howard]Taylor and I then walked through the deal together. 332 00:18:31,813 --> 00:18:35,573 As you will read, 100% of all Taylor Swift assets 333 00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,243 were to be transferred to her immediately 334 00:18:38,243 --> 00:18:39,813 upon signing the new agreement. 335 00:18:42,313 --> 00:18:45,073 But it's clear that Big Machine is putting 336 00:18:45,073 --> 00:18:48,013 these documents out to show 337 00:18:48,013 --> 00:18:52,543 that they were willing to give Taylor back ownership of the Masters, 338 00:18:52,543 --> 00:18:55,973 the thing that she claims that she wanted, 339 00:18:55,973 --> 00:18:59,543 but that it appears that they didn't come to terms 340 00:18:59,543 --> 00:19:03,713 on what the terms of that return of the Masters to her would be. 341 00:19:04,973 --> 00:19:07,413 I completely understand where she was coming from. 342 00:19:07,413 --> 00:19:10,673 You know, I think the Beatles probably felt the same way 343 00:19:10,673 --> 00:19:13,743 when Michael Jackson bought their publishing. Um... 344 00:19:15,173 --> 00:19:18,543 The person who owned Taylor's Masters 345 00:19:18,543 --> 00:19:20,313 throughout her career was not myself. 346 00:19:20,313 --> 00:19:23,373 And when I was buying a record label, 347 00:19:24,613 --> 00:19:27,073 I actually said to that group at any point, 348 00:19:27,073 --> 00:19:30,513 if she comes back and wants to be part of this conversation, 349 00:19:30,513 --> 00:19:33,113 please let me know because I wouldn't do this deal. 350 00:19:33,113 --> 00:19:37,843 Um, I was shown a email that's been out public now 351 00:19:37,843 --> 00:19:40,443 where she stated that she had decided to move on 352 00:19:40,443 --> 00:19:43,673 from that negotiation and wasn't interested in doing that deal anymore. 353 00:19:43,673 --> 00:19:46,473 So I thought at the time, "Okay, I'm in the clear, 354 00:19:46,473 --> 00:19:48,573 let's do this deal." 355 00:19:48,573 --> 00:19:52,573 [Marina] Taylor Swift did try to buy her Masters 356 00:19:52,573 --> 00:19:55,473 and for whatever reason, it didn't happen. 357 00:19:55,473 --> 00:19:57,543 So it went on an open market 358 00:19:57,543 --> 00:20:02,273 and the studio found Scooter to be the worthy buyer 359 00:20:02,273 --> 00:20:04,243 and they have all the rights to do that. 360 00:20:04,243 --> 00:20:06,913 It's their money that they're trying to recoup. 361 00:20:13,913 --> 00:20:16,743 [Zing] What was less reported at the time that she signed with 362 00:20:16,743 --> 00:20:19,243 Big Machine is that her dad also purchased a stake 363 00:20:19,243 --> 00:20:20,313 in Big Machine. 364 00:20:20,313 --> 00:20:22,973 So he purchased a reported 3% stake for the cost 365 00:20:22,973 --> 00:20:26,373 of something around $120,000, which meant that Taylor's dad 366 00:20:26,373 --> 00:20:29,573 was also involved in the running of Big Machine as a minority shareholder. 367 00:20:32,443 --> 00:20:35,713 [Neama]What's interesting is that it's revealed that Scott Swift 368 00:20:35,713 --> 00:20:39,143 made $15.1 million when Big Machine 369 00:20:39,143 --> 00:20:40,673 was sold to Scooter Braun. 370 00:20:42,543 --> 00:20:46,273 This adds a new dimension, and people ask, 371 00:20:46,273 --> 00:20:48,883 how could it be possible that Taylor didn't know 372 00:20:48,883 --> 00:20:52,473 what was happening when her father was a shareholder of the Big Machine? 373 00:20:54,643 --> 00:20:57,883 [Nola] Big Machine claimed that Taylor would have had 374 00:20:57,883 --> 00:21:00,513 an idea about the deal because her dad, Scott, 375 00:21:00,513 --> 00:21:03,643 told his daughter about it or gave her some warning. 376 00:21:03,643 --> 00:21:06,513 Taylor's camp have always argued that this isn't the case, 377 00:21:06,513 --> 00:21:09,673 that Scott chose not to be on certain phone calls, 378 00:21:09,673 --> 00:21:12,613 and so he'd never have to lie to his daughter on the call. 379 00:21:13,783 --> 00:21:16,373 [cars honking] 380 00:21:20,013 --> 00:21:23,613 [Zing] It's important to note that a lot of Taylor's early success, 381 00:21:23,613 --> 00:21:25,613 you know, her ability to pursue music 382 00:21:25,613 --> 00:21:28,883 from a young age is because she also had a really supportive family 383 00:21:28,883 --> 00:21:32,473 who were also quite moneyed, quite upper middle class. 384 00:21:32,473 --> 00:21:35,043 Her dad is a Merrill Lynch banker 385 00:21:35,043 --> 00:21:38,313 and asks to be transferred from Pennsylvania 386 00:21:38,313 --> 00:21:40,473 to the Nashville office of Merrill Lynch 387 00:21:40,473 --> 00:21:43,843 just so that when she's a kid, she can start working 388 00:21:43,843 --> 00:21:45,273 the music industry. 389 00:21:46,883 --> 00:21:50,173 I can't think of very many singers who, 390 00:21:50,173 --> 00:21:52,373 when they signed their first record deal, 391 00:21:52,373 --> 00:21:55,373 their dad was in the position to buy a minority stake 392 00:21:55,373 --> 00:21:56,473 in that record label. 393 00:21:57,613 --> 00:21:59,973 So I think she comes from a kind of background 394 00:21:59,973 --> 00:22:02,413 where she was given a leg up in many ways. 395 00:22:02,413 --> 00:22:04,273 She's a very talented songwriter, 396 00:22:04,273 --> 00:22:07,513 but there are tons and tons of talented songwriters all over the world. 397 00:22:07,513 --> 00:22:10,473 Not all of them will have a dad who works in banking 398 00:22:10,473 --> 00:22:12,443 and has the kind of financial clout 399 00:22:12,443 --> 00:22:16,073 to be able to move all the way across the country to Nashville 400 00:22:16,073 --> 00:22:18,613 just to make sure that they can support their kid's career. 401 00:22:21,113 --> 00:22:24,143 [Dr. Jennifer]I think we're living in a really scary time 402 00:22:24,143 --> 00:22:26,943 for creativity and music in particular. 403 00:22:26,943 --> 00:22:31,013 And Taylor Swift is an example of every single thing 404 00:22:31,013 --> 00:22:32,813 lining up perfectly for you. 405 00:22:32,813 --> 00:22:35,883 There are less and less and less opportunities 406 00:22:35,883 --> 00:22:38,813 for kind of, if you would, the old fashioned system, 407 00:22:38,813 --> 00:22:42,443 the system that saw people like Elton John, Blondie, 408 00:22:42,443 --> 00:22:44,373 Bruce Springsteen, 409 00:22:45,313 --> 00:22:47,473 people that were really reflecting 410 00:22:47,473 --> 00:22:49,843 the working class issues and problems. 411 00:22:50,513 --> 00:22:52,343 [upbeat music playing] 412 00:23:05,043 --> 00:23:09,613 [Nola] Eric Logan is a board member on Big Machine Records. 413 00:23:09,613 --> 00:23:12,673 And what's important to note about him is the fact that 414 00:23:12,673 --> 00:23:15,173 he's been on the board for Big Machine since 415 00:23:15,173 --> 00:23:16,473 the beginning. 416 00:23:16,473 --> 00:23:18,913 So he's someone that has literally watched Taylor's career grow 417 00:23:18,913 --> 00:23:22,213 and will know her well because of that. 418 00:23:23,173 --> 00:23:25,313 Eric actually released a statement in which 419 00:23:25,313 --> 00:23:28,373 he called Taylor out and was fighting back 420 00:23:28,373 --> 00:23:31,313 against her claims and kind of hinted that 421 00:23:31,313 --> 00:23:33,343 she was playing a victim game 422 00:23:33,343 --> 00:23:35,643 and creating this victim narrative over 423 00:23:35,643 --> 00:23:37,573 something that was more complicated 424 00:23:37,573 --> 00:23:39,883 and was a business deal and wasn't, 425 00:23:39,883 --> 00:23:42,543 you know, some bullying attack against her. 426 00:23:43,613 --> 00:23:46,543 This is Eric's statement. 427 00:23:46,543 --> 00:23:48,843 "Somewhere you have told yourself that you have the right 428 00:23:48,843 --> 00:23:50,913 to reframe any story you want to fix with 429 00:23:50,913 --> 00:23:52,743 any narrative you wish. 430 00:23:52,743 --> 00:23:55,373 I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and allow you 431 00:23:55,373 --> 00:23:58,543 to rewrite history and bend the truth to justify your lack 432 00:23:58,543 --> 00:24:00,313 of understanding of a business deal. 433 00:24:01,413 --> 00:24:03,173 You knew about this deal. 434 00:24:03,173 --> 00:24:05,543 You knew what you were walking away from. 435 00:24:06,783 --> 00:24:08,743 So please stop lying." 436 00:24:14,043 --> 00:24:16,913 [all cheering] 437 00:24:16,913 --> 00:24:19,613 After Taylor released that Tumblr blog, 438 00:24:19,613 --> 00:24:23,483 it became more than just Taylor versus Scooter. 439 00:24:23,483 --> 00:24:27,543 It really kind of set a light under the whole industry. 440 00:24:30,343 --> 00:24:33,843 You had Kelly Clarkson tweeting Taylor like, 441 00:24:33,843 --> 00:24:35,283 hey, maybe rerecord your music. 442 00:24:35,283 --> 00:24:38,313 You had Halsey saying that Taylor is the artist that 443 00:24:38,313 --> 00:24:39,783 made me want to be a songwriter. 444 00:24:39,783 --> 00:24:41,983 How can she not own her work? 445 00:24:41,983 --> 00:24:44,943 And on the flip side, there were people speaking out for Scooter as well. 446 00:24:45,983 --> 00:24:49,683 Justin Bieber, Demi Lovato kind of spoke out 447 00:24:49,683 --> 00:24:51,783 in his support. 448 00:24:51,783 --> 00:24:54,113 And it was a really interesting time 449 00:24:54,113 --> 00:24:57,113 because it really took on a world of its own. 450 00:24:58,513 --> 00:25:00,743 [Zing] You know, it became something that is much more 451 00:25:00,743 --> 00:25:02,913 than just a contractual dispute. 452 00:25:02,913 --> 00:25:05,313 This became very much a public dispute. 453 00:25:06,743 --> 00:25:09,283 [Dr. Jennifer]One thing that's really interesting about 454 00:25:09,283 --> 00:25:12,913 the Taylor Swift phenomena is everything seems 455 00:25:12,913 --> 00:25:17,883 so perfectly curated to help control perfectly 456 00:25:17,883 --> 00:25:21,383 what the story and the brand is of Taylor Swift. 457 00:25:21,383 --> 00:25:25,983 And one fantastic example of that is in 2019, 458 00:25:25,983 --> 00:25:29,613 where she appears at the Billboard Women in Music Awards. 459 00:25:29,613 --> 00:25:31,983 She's actually there to pick up an award 460 00:25:31,983 --> 00:25:34,743 as Women of the Decade. 461 00:25:34,743 --> 00:25:37,243 This just happened to me without my approval, 462 00:25:37,243 --> 00:25:39,043 consultation, or consent. 463 00:25:40,483 --> 00:25:44,713 After I was denied the chance to purchase my music outright, 464 00:25:44,713 --> 00:25:48,743 my entire catalog was sold to Scooter Braun's Ithaca Holdings. 465 00:25:50,283 --> 00:25:53,713 It was an opportunity where she could have really 466 00:25:53,713 --> 00:25:56,683 used it to truthfully, authentically 467 00:25:56,683 --> 00:25:59,343 be celebrating women and being humble that she, 468 00:25:59,343 --> 00:26:02,743 at such a young age, is being even given this award 469 00:26:02,743 --> 00:26:05,113 and honor, but instead she used it again 470 00:26:05,113 --> 00:26:07,283 to throw a bomb at her enemy. 471 00:26:07,283 --> 00:26:09,643 And the thing that is, I think, 472 00:26:09,643 --> 00:26:11,943 really a wee bit troubling about it. 473 00:26:11,943 --> 00:26:16,283 When you actually look at the contents of what she says, 474 00:26:16,283 --> 00:26:19,513 peppered throughout are words 475 00:26:19,513 --> 00:26:24,043 that really conflate sexual violence 476 00:26:24,043 --> 00:26:27,113 with issues that she's having with business. 477 00:26:27,113 --> 00:26:28,983 She uses the word consent, 478 00:26:29,643 --> 00:26:30,713 and this is at the height of 479 00:26:30,713 --> 00:26:32,143 the Me Too era. 480 00:26:32,843 --> 00:26:34,513 [all cheering] 481 00:26:36,243 --> 00:26:38,143 [Lucas] Taylor Swift, even in her music, 482 00:26:38,143 --> 00:26:41,943 has always been very adept at playing the victim. 483 00:26:41,943 --> 00:26:45,043 I think there are moments in which she truly has been a victim, 484 00:26:45,043 --> 00:26:48,643 but a lot of her music is about the guys that 485 00:26:48,643 --> 00:26:50,543 she's been with and how they've wronged her, 486 00:26:50,543 --> 00:26:52,613 how they've been crappy. 487 00:26:52,613 --> 00:26:56,613 [Rachel] I think there are a number of points along Taylor's timeline 488 00:26:56,613 --> 00:27:01,213 that point to certain themes coming up again and again 489 00:27:01,213 --> 00:27:05,213 in order to create a narrative that I am the wronged party 490 00:27:05,213 --> 00:27:08,443 and someone is trying to hurt me. 491 00:27:09,883 --> 00:27:12,343 [Nola] Throughout her career, Taylor Swift has had a history 492 00:27:12,343 --> 00:27:17,283 of kind of feuding with others and having grievances with other people, 493 00:27:17,283 --> 00:27:20,213 whether it was because of relationships or like 494 00:27:20,213 --> 00:27:22,883 friendships have gone wrong or business dealings 495 00:27:22,883 --> 00:27:25,613 that she doesn't like or hasn't been happy with. 496 00:27:25,613 --> 00:27:27,443 [upbeat music playing] 497 00:27:31,213 --> 00:27:33,543 Really interesting time was Taylor Swift's feud 498 00:27:33,543 --> 00:27:37,183 with Katy Perry because that was almost like the first time 499 00:27:37,183 --> 00:27:39,213 she had an issue with a woman in the industry. 500 00:27:42,013 --> 00:27:45,713 [Dr. Jennifer]The Taylor Swift song, "Bad Blood," it's been rumored 501 00:27:45,713 --> 00:27:47,583 that it's about Katy Perry. 502 00:27:47,583 --> 00:27:52,183 And the origin of this was a beef they had about 503 00:27:52,183 --> 00:27:53,343 some backup dancers. 504 00:27:54,883 --> 00:27:56,983 [Nola] Suddenly, she had an issue with Katy Perry 505 00:27:56,983 --> 00:27:59,213 and she built up this girl squad 506 00:27:59,213 --> 00:28:02,683 of famous celebs, creates the Bad Blood video 507 00:28:02,683 --> 00:28:04,683 with all her superstar besties. 508 00:28:04,683 --> 00:28:09,713 ♪ Now we got problems And I don't think we can solve them ♪ 509 00:28:09,713 --> 00:28:13,343 ♪ You made a really deep cut And baby♪ 510 00:28:13,343 --> 00:28:16,613 ♪ Now we got bad blood Hey ♪ 511 00:28:16,613 --> 00:28:17,783 [Dr. Jennifer]That's the whole thing. 512 00:28:17,783 --> 00:28:20,913 This idea of victimhood and changing the narrative, 513 00:28:20,913 --> 00:28:22,643 it really is alarming. 514 00:28:22,643 --> 00:28:24,313 You watch the Bad Blood video, 515 00:28:24,313 --> 00:28:26,713 and at first, the first run-through, you're like, 'Yeah, 516 00:28:26,713 --> 00:28:30,343 you go get that." This is a bunch of badass women, powerful. 517 00:28:30,343 --> 00:28:33,743 It almost has a Kill Bill,kind of Uma Thurman vibe to it. 518 00:28:33,743 --> 00:28:36,113 But then I'm sitting there thinking about this, 519 00:28:36,113 --> 00:28:38,643 and I'm like, she's literally being violent 520 00:28:38,643 --> 00:28:40,143 in this video with guns. 521 00:28:40,143 --> 00:28:42,413 It has almost like a Mean Girls vibe to it, like, 522 00:28:42,413 --> 00:28:44,843 I'm getting my posse to come kick your butt. 523 00:28:44,843 --> 00:28:48,683 It just almost to me seemed like it was encouraging 524 00:28:48,683 --> 00:28:52,543 a violence towards people that you do not get on with, 525 00:28:52,543 --> 00:28:55,183 whether it's a violence in words, like bullying, 526 00:28:55,183 --> 00:28:58,613 or it's an actual physical violence with guns and blood. 527 00:28:58,613 --> 00:29:01,713 And it made me quite sad, actually, to watch the video. 528 00:29:02,783 --> 00:29:06,343 The music industry as a machine is bad enough 529 00:29:06,343 --> 00:29:10,083 to women without women pitting against each other. 530 00:29:11,443 --> 00:29:14,583 At the time, it did kind of make me pause 531 00:29:14,583 --> 00:29:17,413 just a bit, like, "This is mean." 532 00:29:17,413 --> 00:29:21,313 This isn't nice. This is kind of isolating someone. 533 00:29:21,313 --> 00:29:24,313 Over an issue regarding backing dancers, 534 00:29:24,313 --> 00:29:27,943 it felt like a very strong way to react. 535 00:29:27,943 --> 00:29:30,383 It had an impact on Katie's career. 536 00:29:35,843 --> 00:29:38,313 [man] Taylor... 537 00:29:38,313 --> 00:29:41,413 [Zing] I would say that when Taylor starts being able to use narrative 538 00:29:41,413 --> 00:29:45,013 to her advantage, really comes into play with 539 00:29:45,013 --> 00:29:46,813 Kanye and the VMAs. 540 00:29:46,813 --> 00:29:47,943 Yo, Taylor. 541 00:29:49,483 --> 00:29:51,813 I'm really happy for you. I'mma let you finish. 542 00:29:51,813 --> 00:29:54,843 But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time. 543 00:29:54,843 --> 00:29:57,583 -[crowd cheering] -[mouths] Oh, my God. 544 00:29:57,583 --> 00:30:00,613 [Dr. Jennifer] I think you had to have a heart of stone 545 00:30:00,613 --> 00:30:03,913 not to feel terrible for her for that happening. 546 00:30:04,613 --> 00:30:06,183 And it was wrong that he did that. 547 00:30:06,183 --> 00:30:10,483 However, I also think that yes, she was already a big star, 548 00:30:10,483 --> 00:30:13,143 but she was a big star with a niche population 549 00:30:13,143 --> 00:30:15,183 of the music buying public. 550 00:30:15,183 --> 00:30:18,143 And it shows how powerful the machine behind Taylor 551 00:30:18,143 --> 00:30:20,213 was even then, because they saw that 552 00:30:20,213 --> 00:30:22,483 as an opportunity to put out this narrative 553 00:30:22,483 --> 00:30:26,583 and start positioning her as this vulnerable yet strong person. 554 00:30:27,683 --> 00:30:30,513 [Zing] Here's this poor young girl who's 555 00:30:30,513 --> 00:30:33,283 had her chance to shine taken away by someone else. 556 00:30:33,283 --> 00:30:37,083 And I think that really set into motion a lot of narratives 557 00:30:37,083 --> 00:30:39,383 that still surround Taylor today. 558 00:30:39,383 --> 00:30:45,213 This idea of being the victim of larger forces beyond her control, 559 00:30:45,213 --> 00:30:47,513 of needing to get revenge somehow, 560 00:30:47,513 --> 00:30:50,243 it really just supercharged her career 561 00:30:50,243 --> 00:30:52,543 and it really exploded her in the public eye. 562 00:30:53,243 --> 00:30:54,343 [indistinct chatter] 563 00:30:54,343 --> 00:30:57,183 So if you fast forward to 2016, 564 00:30:57,183 --> 00:30:59,683 Kanye West releases a song on his new album 565 00:30:59,683 --> 00:31:04,283 called "Famous," which goes, "I think me and Taylor still might have sex. 566 00:31:04,283 --> 00:31:06,413 Why I made that bitch famous." 567 00:31:06,413 --> 00:31:08,513 [Lucas] Taylor Swift is very upset about this, 568 00:31:08,513 --> 00:31:11,313 and she claims that Kanye did not ask for her approval. 569 00:31:11,313 --> 00:31:15,243 Be careful with the car! Be careful with the car! 570 00:31:15,243 --> 00:31:17,783 [Lucas] Kim Kardashian leaks a phone recording 571 00:31:17,783 --> 00:31:21,013 between Kanye and Taylor Swift in which it does appear that 572 00:31:21,013 --> 00:31:24,413 Kanye tells Taylor and Taylor seems to be okay with it. 573 00:31:25,943 --> 00:31:29,413 "To all my South Side snickers that know me best, 574 00:31:29,413 --> 00:31:33,443 I feel like Taylor Swift might owe me sex." 575 00:31:35,213 --> 00:31:36,713 [Taylor laughs on phone] 576 00:31:36,713 --> 00:31:39,243 - [Taylor] That's not mean. -Okay. 577 00:31:39,243 --> 00:31:42,283 Yeah. Well, this is the thing where I'm calling you 578 00:31:42,283 --> 00:31:44,413 because you've got an army. 579 00:31:44,413 --> 00:31:47,513 You own a country of motherfucking two billion people. 580 00:31:49,013 --> 00:31:52,043 It is very dark, but you can obviously see it's Kanye West. 581 00:31:52,043 --> 00:31:54,143 You can hear it's Taylor Swift. 582 00:31:54,143 --> 00:31:58,743 She sounds happy that he's even asking her. 583 00:31:58,743 --> 00:32:00,783 It's so funny, because you think of Kanye 584 00:32:00,783 --> 00:32:04,683 as being all powerful, lawyered up to the eyeballs, 585 00:32:04,683 --> 00:32:06,743 huge management machine behind him. 586 00:32:06,743 --> 00:32:10,883 He looks like a teenage boy calling a girl for the first time. 587 00:32:10,883 --> 00:32:13,113 "Ooh, please will you go out with me?" 588 00:32:13,113 --> 00:32:16,713 Like he looks so scared and so timid, 589 00:32:16,713 --> 00:32:19,883 not like one of the most influential rappers we've had. 590 00:32:19,883 --> 00:32:25,013 He just wants her so badly to approve and be okay with 591 00:32:25,013 --> 00:32:26,983 what it is he wants to create. 592 00:32:27,983 --> 00:32:31,513 The thing about Taylor in the Kanye context 593 00:32:31,513 --> 00:32:33,983 is it makes her an unreliable witness. 594 00:32:33,983 --> 00:32:37,443 She would have just come out straight and go, "Ooh, you know what? 595 00:32:37,443 --> 00:32:39,913 We did talk about it. I was really flattered that 596 00:32:39,913 --> 00:32:41,943 he was going to do a song about me. It sounded great. 597 00:32:41,943 --> 00:32:46,743 But I didn't know about the use of the B word, 598 00:32:46,743 --> 00:32:48,883 that that was going to be in there." Done. 599 00:32:51,783 --> 00:32:56,283 [Nola]Taylor's feud with Kanye has played a large part 600 00:32:56,283 --> 00:32:58,783 in why she's so upset about Scooter. 601 00:32:58,783 --> 00:33:03,483 I have often wondered if he hadn't been a manager for Kanye, 602 00:33:03,483 --> 00:33:06,083 would she have been as upset? 603 00:33:06,083 --> 00:33:07,783 Would she have claimed the bullying 604 00:33:07,783 --> 00:33:10,213 and made the accusation about him just trying 605 00:33:10,213 --> 00:33:11,413 to dismantle her career? 606 00:33:25,413 --> 00:33:26,913 [camera shutters clicking] 607 00:33:26,913 --> 00:33:30,613 [Lucas]That Sunday night after Taylor issued her Tumblr post, 608 00:33:30,613 --> 00:33:32,513 Scooter's wife at the time, Yael, 609 00:33:32,513 --> 00:33:35,883 issued a long post on Instagram defending her husband, 610 00:33:35,883 --> 00:33:38,213 pointing out that she was upset at Scooter 611 00:33:38,213 --> 00:33:40,283 because of his history with Kanye West. 612 00:33:43,013 --> 00:33:45,583 She also suggested that Taylor's criticism 613 00:33:45,583 --> 00:33:48,043 of her husband was unfair and all he was doing 614 00:33:48,043 --> 00:33:49,413 was trying to do a good business deal 615 00:33:49,413 --> 00:33:50,783 and he'd be happy to have involved her. 616 00:33:53,413 --> 00:33:55,343 [Alex]Whether you find Scooter likable or not, 617 00:33:55,343 --> 00:33:57,843 there's no denying that he wants to do some good in the world. 618 00:33:59,183 --> 00:34:01,943 And in the midst of my reporting with Scooter, 619 00:34:01,943 --> 00:34:03,783 something horrific happens. 620 00:34:03,783 --> 00:34:05,813 [sirens wailing] 621 00:34:24,583 --> 00:34:26,012 [crowd cheering] 622 00:34:26,012 --> 00:34:28,213 The One Love concert showed the very best 623 00:34:28,213 --> 00:34:30,012 of what Scooter Braun can be. 624 00:34:30,012 --> 00:34:32,083 He was trying to do right by his artist, 625 00:34:32,083 --> 00:34:33,943 he was trying to do good for the world, 626 00:34:33,943 --> 00:34:37,543 and use music to reach out to people. 627 00:34:37,543 --> 00:34:41,983 As unfortunately we saw yesterday, evil will test us. 628 00:34:41,983 --> 00:34:44,213 It will show its face again. 629 00:34:44,213 --> 00:34:46,943 But because of you, we can now represent through 630 00:34:46,943 --> 00:34:49,943 this as a worldwide community that we will be ready, 631 00:34:49,943 --> 00:34:52,213 we will be fearless, we will be great, 632 00:34:52,213 --> 00:34:53,943 and we will honor our children. 633 00:34:54,543 --> 00:34:56,613 [all cheering] 634 00:35:00,343 --> 00:35:03,013 [Alex] He was very emotional about the bombing. 635 00:35:03,013 --> 00:35:05,283 As much as his voice broke on stage, 636 00:35:05,283 --> 00:35:07,643 it also broke when he was talking about it. 637 00:35:10,213 --> 00:35:12,643 It was a very raw, real moment. 638 00:35:12,643 --> 00:35:15,883 After some years, it's easy to forget how important that was, 639 00:35:15,883 --> 00:35:17,683 especially to the people who were there, 640 00:35:17,683 --> 00:35:21,683 and how much he put into moving heaven and earth 641 00:35:21,683 --> 00:35:23,483 to get this to happen. 642 00:35:24,383 --> 00:35:26,383 I forgot how much he talked about kids 643 00:35:26,383 --> 00:35:29,613 and how I think it made him think about his own children. 644 00:35:29,613 --> 00:35:32,383 He's a guy who really, really cares about his family. 645 00:35:35,683 --> 00:35:37,143 [text notification chimes] 646 00:35:43,243 --> 00:35:45,343 [upbeat music playing] 647 00:35:51,413 --> 00:35:53,743 [crowd cheering] 648 00:35:53,743 --> 00:35:56,113 [Neama]Taylor's announcement of the re-recording 649 00:35:56,113 --> 00:35:59,043 takes this dispute to a whole new level 650 00:35:59,043 --> 00:36:01,983 and begs the question, is she going out of her way 651 00:36:01,983 --> 00:36:04,713 to devalue the deal that was struck between Big Machine 652 00:36:04,713 --> 00:36:06,143 and Scooter Braun? 653 00:36:06,143 --> 00:36:08,943 There is such a concept in American law 654 00:36:08,943 --> 00:36:12,483 as good faith dealing that says that if you struck 655 00:36:12,483 --> 00:36:16,143 a bargain, you know, you have to act accordingly 656 00:36:16,143 --> 00:36:20,083 and not undermine the bargain and do not devalue it. 657 00:36:20,083 --> 00:36:24,813 So from his point of view, I have a contract that says 658 00:36:24,813 --> 00:36:26,843 "I own these rights now." 659 00:36:26,843 --> 00:36:29,983 And you go around it and rerecord it, 660 00:36:29,983 --> 00:36:34,783 and all he did was purchase the rights legally. 661 00:36:34,783 --> 00:36:38,043 Why would you ever take a chance on an unknown artist 662 00:36:38,043 --> 00:36:41,813 and invest all this money if then they could turn around 663 00:36:41,813 --> 00:36:44,113 and undermine their contract that way? 664 00:36:44,113 --> 00:36:48,413 So I actually believe that what she has done 665 00:36:48,413 --> 00:36:52,583 is kind of a disservice to unknown artists out there 666 00:36:52,583 --> 00:36:55,713 because it would be this much harder now 667 00:36:55,713 --> 00:36:58,343 to persuade the studios to take the chance 668 00:36:58,343 --> 00:36:59,843 and make all this investment. 669 00:37:14,043 --> 00:37:17,243 [Neama]Taylor claims that Big Machine and Scooter Braun 670 00:37:17,243 --> 00:37:19,613 are preventing her from using her music, 671 00:37:19,613 --> 00:37:23,343 both in a Netflix documentary and at the AMAs, 672 00:37:23,343 --> 00:37:27,413 where Taylor is set to perform and win the Artist of the Decade Award. 673 00:37:30,543 --> 00:37:34,683 Taylor's Big Machine contract contained a re-record clause, 674 00:37:34,683 --> 00:37:36,843 which was typical in the industry. 675 00:37:36,843 --> 00:37:39,743 That prohibited Taylor from re-recording 676 00:37:39,743 --> 00:37:42,943 any of her Masters during the term of her agreement, 677 00:37:42,943 --> 00:37:44,643 plus an additional two years. 678 00:37:45,983 --> 00:37:49,113 Taylor says that Scooter Braun is claiming that 679 00:37:49,113 --> 00:37:51,843 the performance would be a re-recording of her music 680 00:37:51,843 --> 00:37:55,243 before the expiration of her re-recording restriction. 681 00:37:58,013 --> 00:38:00,783 [Zing] Big Machine then post a follow-up to say, 682 00:38:00,783 --> 00:38:03,743 we don't have the right to tell you not to perform those songs. 683 00:38:04,983 --> 00:38:07,343 Again, people are starting to think, 684 00:38:07,343 --> 00:38:10,083 you know, what is Taylor fudging here? 685 00:38:10,083 --> 00:38:11,883 You know, what is the truth of the matter? 686 00:38:15,783 --> 00:38:17,543 -[all clamoring] -Back up. 687 00:38:17,543 --> 00:38:18,843 [man] Love you, Taylor. 688 00:38:26,483 --> 00:38:29,043 [Lucas]Taylor Swift's comments ahead of the AMAs 689 00:38:29,043 --> 00:38:32,343 telling her fans to voice their frustrations 690 00:38:32,343 --> 00:38:34,213 to Scooter Braun and Scott Borchetta 691 00:38:34,213 --> 00:38:38,183 kicked up a whole other cycle of press around this. 692 00:38:39,583 --> 00:38:43,213 [Rachel] Tell Scott and Scooter how you feel. 693 00:38:43,213 --> 00:38:46,113 If you know Taylor Swift's fan base 694 00:38:46,113 --> 00:38:49,713 and the fervency behind her fandom, 695 00:38:49,713 --> 00:38:52,983 one could imagine any number of reactions. 696 00:39:04,983 --> 00:39:07,513 [Zing]Fandom sometimes can take a very dark turn. 697 00:39:07,513 --> 00:39:09,943 It can turn into abusive messages, 698 00:39:09,943 --> 00:39:12,183 abusive posts, trolling. 699 00:39:12,183 --> 00:39:14,513 [Lucas]Swifties and the Taylor Swift fans are probably one of 700 00:39:14,513 --> 00:39:16,283 the most powerful constituencies on Earth. 701 00:39:17,183 --> 00:39:19,043 [indistinct chatter] 702 00:39:19,043 --> 00:39:23,813 You have these very rabid fans who are cult-like 703 00:39:23,813 --> 00:39:25,883 and who think that she can do no wrong. 704 00:39:25,883 --> 00:39:29,813 [all chattering indistinctly] 705 00:39:35,683 --> 00:39:38,043 [Rachel]Scooter Braun, his family, 706 00:39:38,043 --> 00:39:41,183 his coworkers, Scott Borchetta, 707 00:39:41,183 --> 00:39:44,013 the employees at Big Machine, 708 00:39:44,013 --> 00:39:45,843 they were all harassed. 709 00:39:45,843 --> 00:39:48,683 If you were in any way associated professionally 710 00:39:48,683 --> 00:39:52,713 with these two men, then you were made 711 00:39:52,713 --> 00:39:56,043 a target online by Taylor Swift's fan base 712 00:39:56,043 --> 00:40:00,783 as a direct result of her asking her fans 713 00:40:00,783 --> 00:40:03,783 to tell Scooter and Scott how you feel about this. 714 00:40:06,983 --> 00:40:10,443 [Lucas]The vitriol directed in Scooter's direction 715 00:40:10,443 --> 00:40:14,213 almost immediately, as well as his wife, was pretty gnarly. 716 00:40:18,383 --> 00:40:20,383 [Dr. Jennifer]When the hashtag, I stand with Taylor, 717 00:40:20,383 --> 00:40:22,683 was trending, you know, there was Swiftie saying, 718 00:40:22,683 --> 00:40:25,143 let's go to his house and, like, cut his neck in half. 719 00:40:28,813 --> 00:40:30,783 She had enormous cultural clout. 720 00:40:30,783 --> 00:40:32,383 She had enormous social power. 721 00:40:34,613 --> 00:40:39,383 [Rachel] Taylor Swift has 282 million Instagram followers, 722 00:40:39,383 --> 00:40:42,583 and that is a lot of people. 723 00:40:42,583 --> 00:40:46,213 That includes some people who are anonymous, 724 00:40:46,213 --> 00:40:49,513 they have fan accounts, and that level of anonymity 725 00:40:49,513 --> 00:40:52,843 can embolden people to make threats. 726 00:40:55,343 --> 00:40:58,583 Pile-on effect can be very dangerous, 727 00:40:58,583 --> 00:41:00,643 whether physically or just mentally, 728 00:41:00,643 --> 00:41:03,383 to the person who they're going against. 729 00:41:05,213 --> 00:41:08,043 I myself have experienced that kind of pile on 730 00:41:08,043 --> 00:41:10,513 from Swiftie fandom. 731 00:41:10,513 --> 00:41:13,183 And I love Taylor Swift is the greatest irony, 732 00:41:13,183 --> 00:41:16,813 but sent out a tweet commenting on something that 733 00:41:16,813 --> 00:41:19,143 Taylor said in a Grammy acceptance speech 734 00:41:19,143 --> 00:41:21,713 a few years ago, and was being told 735 00:41:21,713 --> 00:41:24,413 I should slit my wrists. 736 00:41:24,413 --> 00:41:27,013 Every corner of the internet that I could be found, 737 00:41:27,013 --> 00:41:29,713 I was getting harassed. 738 00:41:29,713 --> 00:41:31,383 And this is just for a tweet. 739 00:41:33,013 --> 00:41:36,743 I can love Taylor Swift and love her music, 740 00:41:36,743 --> 00:41:41,643 but at the same time, no one is immune to criticism. 741 00:41:57,913 --> 00:42:00,743 This was the biggest story in the music business for months, 742 00:42:00,743 --> 00:42:02,913 and everyone was wondering when Scooter was going 743 00:42:02,913 --> 00:42:04,743 to say something. 744 00:42:04,743 --> 00:42:08,583 He posted online saying that this had led to death threats 745 00:42:08,583 --> 00:42:11,443 and that he was concerned for the security of his family 746 00:42:11,443 --> 00:42:13,143 and that he really wanted her to stop. 747 00:42:15,183 --> 00:42:19,413 The only thing I disagree with is weaponizing a fan base. 748 00:42:20,843 --> 00:42:23,013 The artists I work with have very large fan bases. 749 00:42:23,013 --> 00:42:24,583 You don't do that. It's very dangerous. 750 00:42:24,583 --> 00:42:28,243 There's people within that fan base who have mental health issues. 751 00:42:28,243 --> 00:42:30,643 There's families involved, and I think that's very, very dangerous. 752 00:42:32,083 --> 00:42:35,913 [Nola]Scooter actually did say, some of your fans 753 00:42:35,913 --> 00:42:37,783 are threatening the lives of my children. 754 00:42:37,783 --> 00:42:40,943 Can you call them off? And she never did. 755 00:42:40,943 --> 00:42:42,613 [Lucas] He became an internet villain, right? 756 00:42:42,613 --> 00:42:45,613 To go from being this sort of celebrated manager 757 00:42:45,613 --> 00:42:47,713 who seems to be the friend to the artist 758 00:42:47,713 --> 00:42:50,683 and a business genius to being seen as the villain 759 00:42:50,683 --> 00:42:52,783 on the internet, I think was pretty tough for him. 760 00:42:54,143 --> 00:42:57,743 [announcer on PA]Morning call, passengers, please-- 761 00:43:04,113 --> 00:43:06,113 [soft music playing] 762 00:43:14,213 --> 00:43:18,013 [Zing]Scooter sells Big Machine and Taylor's Masters 763 00:43:18,013 --> 00:43:21,413 to Shamrock, which is a private equity group owned by Disney. 764 00:43:21,413 --> 00:43:26,083 And what that means is that Disney now own the Masters, 765 00:43:26,083 --> 00:43:28,913 but Scooter introduces a clause into the sale, 766 00:43:28,913 --> 00:43:30,783 which means that he still profits off 767 00:43:30,783 --> 00:43:33,183 whatever money the Masters makes. 768 00:43:33,183 --> 00:43:35,683 [Lucas] Shamrock Capital paid hundreds of millions of dollars 769 00:43:35,683 --> 00:43:37,683 just for the Taylor Swift Masters. 770 00:43:37,683 --> 00:43:40,613 And this kicked off a whole other cycle 771 00:43:40,613 --> 00:43:43,983 of acrimony and criticism because Taylor felt that, 772 00:43:43,983 --> 00:43:47,043 again, someone else was getting rich off of her work. 773 00:43:47,043 --> 00:43:49,743 And there was this whole back and forth about whether 774 00:43:49,743 --> 00:43:53,413 Taylor had been given the opportunity to buy them or not. 775 00:43:53,413 --> 00:43:55,913 [Neama] Taylor claims that she was offered the opportunity 776 00:43:55,913 --> 00:43:59,413 to buy back her catalog, but she had to sign an NDA 777 00:43:59,413 --> 00:44:01,883 that was more like a gag order that prevented her from 778 00:44:01,883 --> 00:44:05,513 ever saying anything bad about Scooter Braun. 779 00:44:05,513 --> 00:44:09,043 [Lucas]She posted on Twitter saying that had had conversations 780 00:44:09,043 --> 00:44:13,313 about buying the Masters, but that Scooter would 781 00:44:13,313 --> 00:44:15,583 only sell them to her if she signed 782 00:44:15,583 --> 00:44:17,743 a non-disclosure agreement guaranteeing that 783 00:44:17,743 --> 00:44:19,543 she would not criticize him publicly, 784 00:44:19,543 --> 00:44:20,913 which she did not want to do. 785 00:44:22,643 --> 00:44:24,643 [all] Taylor. 786 00:44:24,643 --> 00:44:27,383 [photographer] Yes, Taylor! Right here, Taylor! Beautiful! 787 00:44:27,383 --> 00:44:29,143 Straight ahead, Taylor! 788 00:44:29,143 --> 00:44:32,113 These are some emails that were shared by Scooter's team. 789 00:44:33,813 --> 00:44:38,083 Scooter Braun's team counters that in November 2019, 790 00:44:38,083 --> 00:44:40,943 Taylor's management company signed an NDA, 791 00:44:40,943 --> 00:44:44,943 but it seems to be a typical NDA that has 792 00:44:44,943 --> 00:44:47,713 no restrictions on Taylor commenting on Scooter Braun. 793 00:44:48,713 --> 00:44:51,043 -Hey, congrats on all the success. -Thank you. 794 00:44:51,043 --> 00:44:52,013 Everything you've done... 795 00:44:53,583 --> 00:44:56,413 I was always open to selling back people their catalogs 796 00:44:56,413 --> 00:44:59,213 along the way at a fair market value. 797 00:44:59,213 --> 00:45:01,843 And I did present that. I don't speak about this publicly 798 00:45:01,843 --> 00:45:04,143 because I think people have said certain things. 799 00:45:04,143 --> 00:45:07,083 Those narratives aren't necessarily true. 800 00:45:07,083 --> 00:45:10,343 All artists have royalties coming to them from their Masters. 801 00:45:10,343 --> 00:45:13,113 And if they want an opportunity to buy them, 802 00:45:13,113 --> 00:45:14,683 they should have that opportunity. 803 00:45:14,683 --> 00:45:16,843 And I'm completely open to that conversation. 804 00:45:16,843 --> 00:45:19,483 You need to be able to sit in front of someone and have dialogue. 805 00:45:20,013 --> 00:45:22,743 And what you can't do 806 00:45:22,743 --> 00:45:26,413 is say that you want something and then never ever sit down 807 00:45:26,413 --> 00:45:28,383 at the table to have an actual dialogue. 808 00:45:28,383 --> 00:45:32,343 -[photographer] Looking beautiful, girl. -[man] Taylor, Taylor. 809 00:45:32,343 --> 00:45:34,583 [Howard] I don't see it as a legal dispute at all. 810 00:45:36,183 --> 00:45:37,943 I think it's the framing of the narrative. 811 00:45:40,643 --> 00:45:43,383 With Taylor, it's this really interesting phenomenon 812 00:45:43,383 --> 00:45:46,713 where she's the victim, but has also always been 813 00:45:46,713 --> 00:45:48,643 the winner as well at the same time. 814 00:45:48,643 --> 00:45:50,383 Like, ultimately, she always prospers. 815 00:45:50,383 --> 00:45:52,213 And it's just something I don't think 816 00:45:52,213 --> 00:45:54,343 we've really seen with anyone else, 817 00:45:54,343 --> 00:45:57,343 where something awful happens to her or she feels wronged 818 00:45:57,343 --> 00:45:59,183 or slighted, 819 00:45:59,183 --> 00:46:01,583 but she always kind of gets her revenge. 820 00:46:01,583 --> 00:46:03,583 And she's even joked about it herself. 821 00:46:03,583 --> 00:46:05,183 She's said it in her songs, Karma, 822 00:46:05,183 --> 00:46:07,213 "Look What You Made Me Do." 823 00:46:07,213 --> 00:46:10,183 She literally will sit and plot her revenge. 824 00:46:10,183 --> 00:46:12,983 And when it's executed, it's flawless. 825 00:46:17,683 --> 00:46:19,083 [all cheering] 826 00:46:19,083 --> 00:46:22,143 [Marina]I don't think there is any time in music history 827 00:46:22,143 --> 00:46:26,113 where someone went back and rerecorded hit albums 828 00:46:26,113 --> 00:46:29,443 only for them to become hit again. 829 00:46:31,213 --> 00:46:34,513 And this is actually an homage of, you know, 830 00:46:34,513 --> 00:46:39,443 how much Taylor Swift's fans really rally for her. 831 00:46:40,083 --> 00:46:43,743 [all cheering] 832 00:46:43,743 --> 00:46:47,313 [Mikael] The re-recordings have in many cases done better 833 00:46:47,313 --> 00:46:50,243 in a commercial sense than the original records. 834 00:46:50,243 --> 00:46:54,513 No one's ever heard of that. That's an entirely new achievement. 835 00:47:00,543 --> 00:47:02,143 So that's what we're doing. 836 00:47:02,143 --> 00:47:04,713 So when something says in parentheses, 837 00:47:04,713 --> 00:47:07,883 "Taylor's Version" next to it, that means I own it, 838 00:47:07,883 --> 00:47:09,483 -which is exciting. -[all cheering] 839 00:47:11,243 --> 00:47:15,513 [Howard]I'm not sure anybody anticipated, A, 840 00:47:15,513 --> 00:47:17,913 that she would do this to the extent she did, 841 00:47:17,913 --> 00:47:21,343 B, that she would do it so well, and C, 842 00:47:21,343 --> 00:47:23,383 that it would be so popular. 843 00:47:23,383 --> 00:47:26,113 That came to light to me when I was driving around 844 00:47:26,113 --> 00:47:28,843 three 16-year-old girls with my daughter, 845 00:47:28,843 --> 00:47:31,583 and they were talking because they were listening to 846 00:47:31,583 --> 00:47:33,683 a Taylor Version of a song. 847 00:47:33,683 --> 00:47:36,783 And one of the girls said, we won't listen to 848 00:47:36,783 --> 00:47:40,583 the other music because some bad man stole that from her. 849 00:47:40,583 --> 00:47:43,913 I didn't say a word, but I thought, good marketing. 850 00:47:43,913 --> 00:47:45,383 She's done a great job here. 851 00:47:45,383 --> 00:47:48,643 Her fans believe that they're being disloyal 852 00:47:48,643 --> 00:47:50,413 if they listen to the original music. 853 00:47:54,543 --> 00:47:57,183 I do think that some combination of the fight 854 00:47:57,183 --> 00:47:59,383 with Scooter and the way she handled that 855 00:47:59,383 --> 00:48:01,513 and the way she then got perceived as a victim 856 00:48:01,513 --> 00:48:03,283 and the re-recording of the albums 857 00:48:03,283 --> 00:48:06,213 just completely changed the trajectory of her career. 858 00:48:06,213 --> 00:48:08,483 [upbeat music playing] 859 00:48:16,883 --> 00:48:19,113 [woman]I love Taylor ever since I was a little girl, 860 00:48:19,113 --> 00:48:22,283 and I love her music, and I think her Eras tour 861 00:48:22,283 --> 00:48:24,183 is like the best concert ever. 862 00:48:24,183 --> 00:48:26,513 I've been waiting to see her since I was 10. 863 00:48:26,513 --> 00:48:28,183 We're here for Taylor Swift! 864 00:48:30,013 --> 00:48:31,683 [Mikael] The scale of Taylor's success, 865 00:48:31,683 --> 00:48:33,843 it just keeps redefining itself. 866 00:48:34,743 --> 00:48:38,843 The Eras tour is now, by most estimates, 867 00:48:38,843 --> 00:48:42,743 the biggest pop tour that's ever been mounted. 868 00:48:42,743 --> 00:48:45,683 [Brittany]We've seen Taylor's influence grow immensely. 869 00:48:45,683 --> 00:48:48,883 Something has sort of shifted where Taylor has become 870 00:48:48,883 --> 00:48:52,113 the foremost public figure in the world. 871 00:48:52,113 --> 00:48:53,943 [all] We love you, Taylor! 872 00:48:56,843 --> 00:48:59,043 [Mikael] We can debate sort of who is the winner of 873 00:48:59,043 --> 00:49:02,383 the business war here. 874 00:49:02,383 --> 00:49:04,443 There are arguments to be made on both sides. 875 00:49:04,443 --> 00:49:07,513 But if you're talking about who won the emotional battle, 876 00:49:07,513 --> 00:49:10,043 who won the sort of moral feud, 877 00:49:10,043 --> 00:49:12,883 it seems clear to me that in the court of public opinion, 878 00:49:12,883 --> 00:49:14,283 Taylor Swift was the winner. 879 00:49:14,283 --> 00:49:17,083 When I'm analyzing the case, she's not going to win in the courtroom. 880 00:49:17,083 --> 00:49:18,413 She doesn't have a good court case, 881 00:49:18,413 --> 00:49:21,943 but she like completely destroyed him in the PR world. 882 00:49:21,943 --> 00:49:26,013 Does it fundamentally make him a pauper? No, it doesn't. 883 00:49:26,013 --> 00:49:27,283 He's still very, very rich. 884 00:49:27,283 --> 00:49:30,213 But I think what the impact of this whole feud 885 00:49:30,213 --> 00:49:32,913 has been on his reputation in the music industry 886 00:49:32,913 --> 00:49:35,583 is that he's now kind of been tarnished reputationally 887 00:49:35,583 --> 00:49:37,043 from this scrap with Taylor. 888 00:49:45,143 --> 00:49:46,783 It did hurt because... 889 00:49:46,783 --> 00:49:49,513 The day before it happened, I had never had 890 00:49:49,513 --> 00:49:51,683 any negative news about me in our entire industry. 891 00:49:51,683 --> 00:49:53,943 I never had an issue with anybody. 892 00:49:53,943 --> 00:49:57,283 And then suddenly overnight, because someone said something, 893 00:49:57,283 --> 00:49:58,313 I was a bully. 894 00:49:59,043 --> 00:50:01,083 [upbeat music playing] 895 00:50:46,113 --> 00:50:50,643 ♪ Tell my soul Only love forgives ♪ 896 00:50:50,643 --> 00:50:54,883 ♪ Only love forgives Tell my soul♪ 897 00:50:54,883 --> 00:50:59,283 ♪ Only love forgives Only love forgives ♪ 898 00:50:59,283 --> 00:51:03,313 ♪ Tell my soul♪ 899 00:51:03,313 --> 00:51:08,713 ♪ Only love Only love forgives ♪