1 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,399 Since I joined the police and became a detective, 2 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,440 I wanted to investigate murders. 3 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,959 I'm motivated by results. 4 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:11,960 I'm motivated by the need to give people answers. 5 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,799 I was the covering SIO for the weekend 6 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,959 and I was awoken to a text message. 7 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,040 There's a murder in Ormskirk. 8 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,319 There'd been a largescale fight. 9 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:35,399 At least a dozen people involved. 10 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,279 A passing police vehicle had arrived really, really quickly 11 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,999 and everybody ran off in different directions. 12 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,640 Some of this group had made off onto Moorgate... 13 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,479 ...where one of them collapsed. 14 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,919 He was bleeding profusely from an injury to his head. 15 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:05,319 He'd also had a stab wound to his chest. 16 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:10,760 He was beginning to struggle with his breathing. 17 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,999 Officers arrived and tried to comfort him, 18 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,840 keep him warm and calm and stem the flow of the bleeding. 19 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,719 There was another two males. 20 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,480 They could see that one of these males... 21 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,239 ...had a stab wound to his back. 22 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:42,839 They indicated they were friends of the male on the floor 23 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,520 and that he lived with his family locally. 24 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,280 It was a Friday night. We were in bed and I get a call. 25 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,679 {\an8}They say we've got to get to the hospital. 26 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,360 {\an8}Matthew's been hurt. 27 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:15,999 I had to have a double take. 28 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,159 I didn't understand what was going on, 29 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,919 because I was still half asleep. 30 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,839 We were running round like lunatics. 31 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,399 {\an8}I wonder what's happened, you know, what, 32 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,359 {\an8}what's happened to him? Has he been in a car accident? 33 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,040 What's happened? 34 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,879 We arrive at the hospital. 35 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,200 They take us to a room. 36 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,599 We're sitting there and we're, 37 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,639 just waiting and next thing, a doctor and two, 38 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,399 maybe three nurses come in. 39 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,080 They tell us that Matthew's gone. 40 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,239 Matthew had died. 41 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,920 Complete devastation. 42 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,959 He was really loving. 43 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,839 He was really affectionate. 44 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:19,760 I knew Matthew loved me... 45 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,120 Sorry. 46 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:37,839 All I wanted to do was just cuddle him. I just wanted to have a hug. 47 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:39,999 Couldn't touch him, 48 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,799 I couldn't hold him 49 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,320 because a police investigation was under way. 50 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,439 I need to get my head round this 51 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,359 to understand what's happened 52 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,999 and how we're going to progress this investigation. 53 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,239 Really, really, really chaotic first few hours. 54 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:04,759 It is just, 55 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,519 to get in the zone 56 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:12,200 and to remain calm, to remain methodical. 57 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,079 {\an8}He seemed to be an ordinary, everyday lad 58 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,999 {\an8}and there didn't seem to really be any motive 59 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,159 {\an8}behind what happened to him. 60 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,759 Who has murdered this young person? 61 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:26,960 Who's done this? 62 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,199 We were shown straight away 63 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,959 the CCTV that had been recovered overnight. 64 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:41,359 I watch it. It was very brief. 65 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,840 Really chaotic and confusing. 66 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:49,960 Very difficult to decipher who was who. 67 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:56,879 The camera that actually records that 68 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,839 is over 100 metres away. 69 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:02,799 It isn't really of ID quality when you look at it on its own. 70 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,239 That footage, it's utter chaos. 71 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,680 Who are them 13 people? 72 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,440 The killer is within that CCTV. 73 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:18,240 It's about identifying which person is responsible. 74 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,799 Two of Matthew's friends had been arrested on suspicion 75 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,359 of affray, which is a public order offence. 76 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,999 It was clear to the officers they had been involved. 77 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,519 One of these males had a stab wound to his back, 78 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,199 clearly sustained during the incident. 79 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,759 But they weren't talking to us. 80 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,399 They weren't telling us anything. 81 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,680 They weren't telling us what was going on. 82 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,799 I was in bed, half asleep, 83 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,999 when I got the call from the boss, saying, 84 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,799 "There's a really, really tricky job." 85 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,519 The first thing that I ask is, "Where are the phones?" 86 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,839 We identified Matthew's phone. 87 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,879 Getting into this phone would give us 88 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:15,039 a better idea of who is involved and who's responsible. 89 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:21,079 Police have software that allows us to get access to a phone. 90 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:22,879 But on this occasion, 91 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,679 we've not been able to get into that phone 92 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,639 and the family didn't know the PIN. 93 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,360 We just couldn't get into it. 94 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:40,879 With no phones, we had to focus our attention on the CCTV. 95 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,919 My main objective is to find out who killed Matthew, 96 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,479 but in doing that, 97 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,519 I need to understand what had been going on that night. 98 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,079 There's an old saying in the police that burglars can't fly. 99 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,799 People just don't parachute into the middle of nowhere 100 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,319 and then beam me out. 101 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,279 So we start with piecing it together, frame by frame. 102 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,239 There's various fights going on, 103 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,439 there's various people interacting with each other. 104 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,439 There's a male with a blue jacket. 105 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,999 He's fighting in the middle of the street. 106 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,759 You could see a coat flying around. 107 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,959 You can see almost a jousting movement, 108 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,960 and you can also see Matthew put a hand to his chest. 109 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,640 A second person comes running in. 110 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,400 You could see the weapon in his hand. 111 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,559 Clearly, he was going to be a suspect, 112 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,760 but the male in the blue jacket stood out to me. 113 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,720 I could see that he was central to everything. 114 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,359 Internally, you're worried that this is going to be really difficult 115 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,080 to solve and the pressure is on. 116 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,039 It's usually important to go to the scene location, 117 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,880 to gain an understanding of what it's like. 118 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,519 To speak directly to the people 119 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,039 that are processing that scene. 120 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,879 I'm keen to impart on them the pace and urgency, 121 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,800 the standards that's required. 122 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,879 I've never been to Ormskirk before. 123 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,759 Quiet. 124 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,079 Nothing out of the ordinary. 125 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:41,479 Nestled between Merseyside and Lancashire. 126 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,839 It was really unusual to have a case in Ormskirk, 127 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,880 particularly a murder. 128 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,680 We can see where the incident took place. 129 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,679 How close that is to the local bars and restaurants, shops. 130 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:03,239 It's a little bit eerie 131 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,600 because it's all closed off with the police tape. 132 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:14,599 I always try and put myself in the mind of the person that's been there 133 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,279 and what would I do if I was in their shoes 134 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,519 after that violent altercation? 135 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,159 The crime scene investigators through the night had put 136 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,559 a number of markers next to things 137 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,319 that were considered to be important. 138 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,959 I could see a sports sock lying in the road, 139 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,880 well, just off the pavement. 140 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,959 I could see that there was a trail of blood 141 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,799 leading away from Railway Road, in the direction 142 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,640 of where Matthew Daulby was later found collapsed. 143 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:01,839 I receive a call whilst I'm actually at the scene, 144 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,719 that tells me that a member of the public had reported seeing 145 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:09,040 a knife not far from the scene itself. 146 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,439 She had got out of her car and gone to work and noticed 147 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:22,479 a knife practically in the middle of this small yard. 148 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:28,279 It was described as a small knife with the blade still extended. 149 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,039 It's not hidden in any way. 150 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,079 It's just in the middle of a path. 151 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,919 It has to be then forensically recovered. 152 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,039 We couldn't jump to conclusions that 153 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,799 that knife had been involved, because it may not have been. 154 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,839 I didn't know how many weapons had been involved. 155 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,040 But equally, there's the glimmer of hope. 156 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,719 It's an urgent priority to identify all the people 157 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,399 that are present at that scene. 158 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,999 I utilise Open Source to see what's being said 159 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,719 in the community, 160 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:12,440 to see if there is any information that is being discussed. 161 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,839 Open Source is a tactic that the police use 162 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,359 and it pretty much is monitoring social media accounts. 163 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,399 The reason why it's called Open Source is 164 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,479 because it's open to the public. 165 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:30,399 We were monitoring as much as possible any press releases 166 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,039 and any comments under those press releases. 167 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,319 We do press appeals. 168 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,439 We publicise it in social media. 169 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,719 They often can provide us with clues, 170 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,600 sometimes evidence, sometimes witnesses. 171 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,959 We're starting to see a couple of names appearing 172 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,439 from a variety of different sources. 173 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,440 They are known to the police. 174 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,120 Thomas Dures and Henry Houghton. 175 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,519 Getting those names is a big step in the inquiry, 176 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,399 but we don't know if they really are anything to do 177 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,399 with what's happened. 178 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,959 I'm a great believer in, there is always a camera watching you. 179 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,159 Now, from the moment you leave your front door. 180 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,199 The beginning of the investigation, there are hundreds of hours 181 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,039 of CCTV that has been collated. 182 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,679 While I'm reviewing the CCTV, 183 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:42,039 I'm working very closely with Kristina 184 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,479 and what Kristina's giving me is information on people's whereabouts. 185 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,439 Focused on Thomas Dures. 186 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,079 Where does he go? Who does he interact with? 187 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,559 We know what phone Thomas Dures is using. 188 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,079 We're able to track that from his cell side. 189 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,440 We can see his incoming calls. 190 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:07,000 We have been able to match the call data to the CCTV. 191 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,039 So, I've access to some quite detailed mapping software. 192 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,239 One of the first things I do 193 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,799 is to map where each location has a CCTV camera 194 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,840 and then overlay that with what we've actually seized. 195 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,439 I'm able to review the CCTV and show that Thomas Dures 196 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,799 and Henry Houghton had met in a nearby alleyway. 197 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:39,800 I'm able then to track them on CCTV to a bar round the corner. 198 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:48,159 They leave, they go back to Railway Road. 199 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,800 And that bar is literally metres from the scene of the stabbing. 200 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,679 That CCTV footage gave us an excellent image 201 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,880 of Thomas Dures and Henry Houghton. 202 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,239 Thomas Dures was wearing a really distinctive blue jacket, 203 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,759 which is very similar to the blue jacket worn by the person 204 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,080 in the centre of the incident. 205 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,119 Given the fact that more than one source of information 206 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,319 has told us that these people are responsible 207 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,919 and given that they match the description 208 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,999 of the people that are involved, 209 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,399 took the decision to raise them as suspects 210 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,719 for the murder of Matthew Daulby. 211 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,520 They are now wanted. 212 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,439 We know that we need to get Henry Houghton 213 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,639 and Thomas Dures into custody. 214 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,920 And so we dispatch the team to go and arrest them. 215 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,559 Get that nervous feeling, are they going to be there? 216 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,679 Are they destroying evidence? 217 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,199 Are they getting rid of weapons, are they getting rid of phones? 218 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,079 In the early hours of the morning, 219 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,159 officers attended at the home address of Henry Houghton 220 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,319 and Thomas Dures in order to arrest them 221 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,720 and to execute search warrants. 222 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,960 Neither Thomas Dures nor Henry Houghton were at home. 223 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,599 The next day, we were contacting their friends, 224 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,079 family, knocking on doors, 225 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,599 and putting officers on the street to try and find them, 226 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,720 to try and see where they are. 227 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,839 Who was helping them? 228 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,640 Where were they hiding? 229 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:12,359 I naturally worry about how difficult it will be to find them. 230 00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:15,159 And then out of the blue, 231 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,719 Henry Houghton walks into a local convenience store 232 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,760 and tells the shopkeeper that he is wanted. 233 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,520 Henry Houghton is arrested on suspicion of murder. 234 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,959 His behaviour is challenging. 235 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,840 He is under the influence of drugs. 236 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,199 He has damaged a police cell. 237 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,279 He has been violent and abusive to the custody staff. 238 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,159 We're entitled to keep someone in police custody 239 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,039 for 24 hours in the initial period, 240 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,400 with a further 12 hours with a superintendent's authority. 241 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,120 That time goes extremely quickly. 242 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:48,720 We have to be mindful of what we tell Henry Houghton. 243 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,319 A lot of careful decisions have to be made 244 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,559 around what we're disclosing and when. 245 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,199 But it's important that we ask Henry Houghton around his movements, 246 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:19,080 what he did, who he was with. 247 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,159 He has been interviewed on more than one occasion 248 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,000 and remains silent. 249 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,919 We were very much towards the back end of the clock 250 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,759 that we're entitled to. 251 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,560 I'm running out of time. 252 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,479 We get the result from the postmortem. 253 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,359 The cause of death was a single stab wound to the chest 254 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,559 which had perforated Matthew's heart, 255 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,199 but the pathologist also documented other injuries. 256 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,119 A laceration to the left-hand side of his head, 257 00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:26,399 which would be disorientating 258 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:32,200 and consistent with having been struck by a makeshift weapon. 259 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,239 It wasn't until his very last interview with very, very little 260 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,000 time left on the custody clock, that he began to talk. 261 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,879 He places himself at the scene. 262 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:20,879 He says he removes his sock, selects a stone, 263 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,039 places it in, and uses it as a weapon to hit somebody 264 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,760 and that he's acting in the defence of a friend. 265 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,800 It had to be considered that this was part of Matthew's murder. 266 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:46,319 The forensic results on the sock reveals two DNA profiles. 267 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,199 On one end of the sock, 268 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,359 we get the DNA that matches Matthew Daulby, 269 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:53,439 and on the other end of the sock, 270 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,840 we get DNA that matches Henry Houghton. 271 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,279 That was the icing on the cake 272 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,680 and we knew that we had sealed the case for Henry Houghton. 273 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,239 We got the authority from the Crown Prosecution Service 274 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,119 to charge Henry Houghton with the offence 275 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:13,800 in the murder of Matthew Daulby. 276 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,439 However, that is not the end of the investigation 277 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,839 and the search for Thomas Dures continues. 278 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,959 He really is our priority. 279 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,959 On the face of it, he has just disappeared. 280 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,320 There is no trace of him whatsoever. 281 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,999 Digital is rightfully important to any investigation. 282 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,479 For a homicide investigation, it gives us 283 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,599 an array of investigative opportunities in terms 284 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,399 of someone's movements, who they're communicating with, 285 00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,920 what they're looking at. 286 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,999 We can identify that it's Thomas Dures on CCTV. 287 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,279 After the fight, it shows Thomas Dures running off, 288 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,679 and I'm able to watch further footage, 289 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,999 shows him running down St Helens Road. 290 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,119 He arrives into a park area known locally as Triangle Park. 291 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:22,039 The next time we see him after Triangle Park, 292 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,719 he's discarded the jacket. 293 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,519 He's no longer wearing the blue jacket. 294 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,479 That critical piece of evidence, 295 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,599 that jacket, could contain Matthew Daulby's DNA. 296 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,359 But we can't find it. 297 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,279 We can't find it anywhere and we've searched high and low. 298 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,399 So, now my CCTV review objectives change. 299 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,880 I'm tracking a lad with a black Boss T-shirt on. 300 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,319 I'm able to then track him back to the scene, 301 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,839 tracking past some of the pubs 302 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,119 that he'd been in earlier on in the night, 303 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,599 but more importantly, I can track him to the Stiles car park 304 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,480 where the weapon was found. 305 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,959 We had Thomas Dures to the south side, 306 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,039 walking after the incident 307 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,439 and we can see on CCTV that he's on the phone. 308 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,279 We were tracking his movements. 309 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,479 It took us towards the graveyard. 310 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,759 Kristina can show who he's on the phone to at the time. 311 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,079 I overlay that with my CCTV. 312 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,800 And actually, that CCTV camera has audio. 313 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,279 I can hear him saying, "Somebody's been stabbed up." 314 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,480 This is moments after the incident had occurred. 315 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,719 From his mobile data, 316 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,999 we know that he's moving towards his home address. 317 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,599 Once he gets to his home address, 318 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,279 we can see that he's using Snapchat. 319 00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,559 He is logging in and out. 320 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,439 The picture's of him, 321 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,800 but it's quite blurry and there's a bit of blood on him. 322 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,679 He then uses a different phone to log into his Snapchat account. 323 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,319 We believe that is because he's trying to evade police. 324 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,959 He's consistently using an iPhone 7 at the time. 325 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,639 He then starts to use an iPhone 6. 326 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,159 But after that, it all goes dark. 327 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:32,999 We can't find him anywhere. Nobody knows where he is. 328 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,920 This will not finish until he is brought to justice. 329 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,760 What would lead somebody to use that level of violence? 330 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,640 There must be a reason, there must be a back story. 331 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,559 We have two friends of the victim in custody, 332 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,719 but they weren't talking to us. 333 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,439 They're not telling us who's murdered their friend. 334 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,679 But one of Matthew's friends who'd been arrested on the night, 335 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,280 he was searched and he had car keys on him. 336 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,880 Ormskirk town centre was searched and a black Audi Q5 was located. 337 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,519 The vehicle was searched 338 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,479 and within that vehicle, there were a number of mobile phones. 339 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,839 We found two phones 340 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,399 and they belonged to two of Matthew's friends. 341 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,039 Because one of those friends had been arrested, 342 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,599 they'd never gone back to that car 343 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,879 and they'd never had the opportunity to destroy any of the evidence, 344 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,919 to delete any of the messages 345 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,919 and so these were two phones that had never been touched 346 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,199 since the incident. 347 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,839 I'm champing at the bit 348 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,599 to understand what's on these phones, 349 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,319 and that a digital media investigator could go through 350 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,720 the data and could hopefully tell me what on earth has happened. 351 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,639 Unfortunately, these phones are PIN locked, 352 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,439 so at the beginning, 353 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,719 I'm thinking am I going to be able to get into these phones? 354 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,759 We cracked the code. 355 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,599 As soon as I opened that phone, 356 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,479 I can see there the activities on the night, 357 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,999 and immediately I'm drawn into it 358 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,519 because there's quite a lot of messages. 359 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,759 There's a lot of activity there. 360 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,359 Brilliant for us. 361 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:56,439 I find a Snapchat group that Matthew Daulby's part of. 362 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,959 It seems to be a lot of friends that are just chatting 363 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:01,599 about normal stuff. 364 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,759 Going out, having fun, 365 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,879 anything that anybody would see on a normal group chat. 366 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,919 On the 28th in the evening, 367 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,399 I can see that one of Matthew's friends gets assaulted. 368 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,839 Following the assault, this male had posted a video, 369 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,600 a series of videos, onto the group... 370 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:39,639 ...which told the story of how he'd been assaulted by Thomas Dures. 371 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:44,239 That led to some angry comment from the group. 372 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,559 And you can see that the tension is rising. 373 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:51,119 People are talking about going to Ormskirk 374 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,159 and almost avenging their friend. 375 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,439 You can see that Matthew Daulby is participating in this group chat, 376 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,239 so he's active. 377 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,599 It was clear that their intention was to travel to Ormskirk 378 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,159 to sort it out. 379 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,079 The mood of that group changes 380 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,159 and they go from a group of lads who are enjoying a night out, 381 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,159 to a group of lads who almost become vigilantes. 382 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,759 They're coming to Ormskirk for a reason. 383 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,119 Matthew Daulby has his girlfriend there, 384 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,999 so his girlfriend's saying, "Don't go, I don't want you to go." 385 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,839 And you can see that Matthew's torn, 386 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,799 and on CCTV, he comes backwards and forwards. 387 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,959 Doesn't really want to leave her, although he does in the end 388 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,119 and it's a really sad moment. 389 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,479 That is probably him walking to his death. 390 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,559 Pack mentality kicked in. 391 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,639 A large group of up to ten then travelled from 392 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,439 the Maghull area into Ormskirk 393 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:58,279 and that was the group that Matthew was part of. 394 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,599 They park on the outskirts of town 395 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,999 and a group of ten lads, they walk up the street. 396 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,880 They walk straight towards Railway Road. 397 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,359 They stopped, 398 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,119 there was interaction with a male and whilst they were talking, 399 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,639 their attention was drawn to this male. 400 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,799 Thomas Dures approached them from behind. 401 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,639 Before any fighting started, 402 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,279 Matthew was hit on the head with a rock in a sock 403 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,359 and then fatally stabbed. 404 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,559 Matthew didn't fight anyone before he was attacked. 405 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,959 The Snapchat message confirms as to why this group, 406 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,519 including Matthew, 407 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,719 had arranged to come down to Ormskirk. 408 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,439 They were clearly angry. 409 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,999 There was mention of Thomas Dures assaulting 410 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,239 one of their friends. 411 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,199 Again, placing Thomas Dures in Ormskirk town centre 412 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,800 at or around the time of the murder. 413 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,239 Thomas Dures' phone was used 414 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,519 a few days after Matthew Daulby's death, 415 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,199 but after that, it all goes dark. 416 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,479 Thomas Dures is nowhere to be found. 417 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,999 We still don't understand where he's gone 418 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,719 and it was really frustrating. 419 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,079 Somebody that is so young, 420 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,479 I imagine that they are spending a lot of their time on the phone. 421 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,759 We're trying to find Netflix, Amazon, UberEATS, 422 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:29,599 Deliveroo or anything that anybody in their 20s would be using. 423 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,159 We looked at Thomas' bank accounts 424 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,079 to see whether they had been used anywhere that we could trace. 425 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,599 Maybe it would be an online transaction. 426 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,999 If that transaction was then linked to a phone number 427 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,679 that he might be using, 428 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,279 or an email address, or social media handle, 429 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,999 and that would give us a clue as to where he was. 430 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,879 But his bank accounts hadn't been used since the day of the murder. 431 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,799 We couldn't identify the digital footprint 432 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,760 for Thomas Dures at all. 433 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,239 The weeks and months had passed. 434 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,519 The traditional means that we would utilise 435 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,359 to find someone had been fruitless. 436 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,920 He was still at large. 437 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,319 We get the results back around the DNA testing on the knife, 438 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,119 and there's a mixed profile from the blade. 439 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,959 A mixed profile would be explainable because that knife had been used 440 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,599 to stab different people, 441 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,519 so you would expect to have four or five different profiles 442 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,000 contained within it. 443 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,079 Thomas Dures had sustained a bleeding injury from his nose. 444 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,559 On the CCTV, 445 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,639 you could se him wiping his nose with his hand. 446 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,399 It was reasonable to conclude that some of the DNA profile 447 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,239 may indeed belong to Thomas Dures. 448 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,399 However, Thomas Dures' DNA profile was not contained within 449 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,799 the National DNA Database. 450 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,599 We don't know where Thomas Dures is. 451 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,159 We can't find him, so we obtain a warrant, 452 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,399 we go to Thomas Dures' house 453 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,959 and we seize a number of items that we believe will have 454 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,199 Thomas Dures' DNA on. 455 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,279 So, we get an inhaler that he uses 456 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,839 and a retainer, and we load them up to the database 457 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,360 and there's a hit. 458 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,999 We were confidently able to say that Thomas Dures' DNA 459 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,560 was on the handle of the knife. 460 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,919 The next consideration was, 461 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,879 had that knife been used to stab anybody? 462 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,759 And you would naturally consider that Matthew Daulby's DNA 463 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,239 should be on the blade of that knife. 464 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,199 But the initial testing showed that there was no forensic link 465 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,440 between that knife and Matthew. 466 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,719 How could it be that if that knife had been used, 467 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:10,799 there was no forensic trace? 468 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,280 We need to maximise our evidential opportunities. 469 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,599 So, I was aware from the CCTV that Thomas Dures was on that evening 470 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,799 wearing a really distinctive blue jacket. 471 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,519 And we also knew from the CCTV that he had discarded it 472 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,480 at some point during the evening. 473 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,239 This jacket is really significant. 474 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:37,439 He's wearing it when he stabs Matthew. 475 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,439 It could contain Matthew's DNA. 476 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,359 It could provide us 477 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,239 with that vital evidence that would convict Thomas Dures, 478 00:34:45,240 --> 00:34:47,919 but we can't find it. 479 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,719 We're a month into the investigation. 480 00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:53,399 I go on a family holiday. 481 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,319 I'm laying on my sun lounger when I receive a call. 482 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,319 This gentleman who was out walking his dog had found 483 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,039 a blue jacket. 484 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,280 He'd retained it at his house for a month. 485 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,639 This jacket was forensically recovered. 486 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:17,119 There was blood on the sleeve of the jacket. 487 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,799 That blood belonged to Matthew Daulby. 488 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,199 Significantly, the forensic scientist was able 489 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,319 to interpret that staining 490 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,439 to show that it was airborne blood, 491 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,759 which indicated that the wearer of that jacket 492 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,919 had been in close proximity to Matthew Daulby 493 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,920 at the point he was bleeding. 494 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,479 But we can't understand, 495 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,160 why is Matthew's blood not on this knife? 496 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,360 Matthew's friend who was arrested had been stabbed last. 497 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,719 We asked the forensic scientists to consider examining 498 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:02,279 the area around the stab cut. 499 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,879 The clothing may act as a cleaning tool 500 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,239 and the results that came back showed that 501 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,919 Matthew's DNA was indeed recovered. 502 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,480 The weapon had been wiped clean as it had gone into the next victim. 503 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,039 The same knife had been used to stab Matthew 504 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,079 and then his friend. 505 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,759 That same knife, 506 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,880 there was a forensic link with Thomas Dures. 507 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,199 It's a significant moment and naturally, we're really pleased. 508 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,799 The significance of that DNA is understood. 509 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,079 And is supportive of other forensics. 510 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,799 And the CCTV evidence 511 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,160 that Thomas Dures had stabbed Matthew Daulby. 512 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,719 So, provides the incident room with a real lift. 513 00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:01,759 We've got the right person. 514 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,920 But I don't know where he is. 515 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:07,839 It's so upsetting 516 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,239 because you know the person that murdered your son, 517 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:15,759 who inflicted the knife wound to your son, is fleeing. 518 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,799 We are grieving, trying to grieve. 519 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,720 All we wanted for our son was get justice. 520 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:26,439 And you're just waiting for him 521 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,800 to either hand himself in, or police to find him. 522 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,359 This man was at large. 523 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,120 This man was wanted on suspicion of a murder. 524 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,839 As the days and weeks passed by, 525 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,919 we had to face the prospect that Thomas Dures 526 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,960 had actually fled the country. 527 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,559 Months have passed. 528 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,439 Got no significant leads, 529 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,359 in relation to where Thomas Dures may be. 530 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,319 It's clear that it's now time to change tactic 531 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,359 and consider other ways of identifying where he is. 532 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,239 We can try something different, 533 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:26,160 in terms of how we're managing the media. 534 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,400 CRIMEWATCH THEME PLAYS 535 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,719 What this family has been through is utterly devastating. 536 00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,279 Somebody knows where Thomas Dures is. 537 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,399 Please do the right thing. 538 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,359 We were able to utilise an interview that had been conducted 539 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,279 with Matthew's parents, Gary and Angela, 540 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,159 to really publicise the devastation, 541 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,679 and how things had impacted upon them. 542 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,559 For them, on a personal level, 543 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,119 to appeal to Thomas Dures directly 544 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,800 and anybody who may know where he was. 545 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,639 To really provide a human story 546 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,400 around how this had impacted them. 547 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,399 As private people, that was something that, you know, 548 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:13,999 we really didn't want to do, 549 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,279 but we felt like we had no choice, 550 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,079 because, you know, we needed to find him, 551 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,479 and we needed to bring him to justice. 552 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,999 Please, please help us get justice for Matthew. 553 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,080 That's the last thing we can do for him now. 554 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,119 We made that decision to go on TV, 555 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,239 to speak to the press, 556 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:36,519 and to try and do our part i-in capturing... 557 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:37,759 And helping the police. 558 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,080 ...in helping the police capture Thomas Dures. 559 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,799 Within a few weeks, I'm starting to receive information that 560 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,080 Thomas Dures may have been hiding in Europe. 561 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,399 With the assistance of the National Crime Agency, 562 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,599 Interpol, Crimestoppers, 563 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,079 we launched a cohesive media strategy 564 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,119 to get his face plastered 565 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,479 all over the Internet. 566 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,279 We turned to social media to really target certain areas 567 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,600 where we thought he may be. 568 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,359 The power of social media today 569 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,279 is that there is no limit to the reach that it has. 570 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,879 This is now a 20, 21-year-old. 571 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,839 They're on social media all the time. 572 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,399 And by targeting the social media, 573 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,559 we're inadvertently targeting his age group. 574 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,999 And Thomas Dures would have had to live his life. 575 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,319 Couldn't hole himself up in a house for 12, 18 months. 576 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,079 He would've had to go about his daily business. 577 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,279 The objective was to make life as uncomfortable as we possibly could 578 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,199 for a man on the run, 579 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,920 and that social media would've made him extremely uncomfortable. 580 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,439 He was trying to hide from people, 581 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,319 he was trying to hide from the police. 582 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,799 You must be continuously looking over your shoulder. 583 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,839 At times, it felt like we were not getting anywhere, 584 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,639 because it was so difficult for us to identify any links 585 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:16,640 to Thomas Dures. 586 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,079 We needed to smoke him out, 587 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,079 make him do something different. 588 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,879 Really, really wrench up the pressure. 589 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,239 We are trying constantly to identify a new social media profile, 590 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,879 a number that he's using, because we are trying to find him. 591 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,479 Even on my social media platforms, 592 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,079 I was seeing the appeal coming back from people 593 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:42,079 in different countries. 594 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,799 Some of the areas that we targeted 595 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,279 were traditional tourist spots for UK travellers. 596 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:52,239 He would never be able to be settled, confident, relaxed. 597 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:55,119 How is he living his life in somewhere where he didn't know? 598 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,959 I need to keep the investigation moving. 599 00:41:57,960 --> 00:41:59,880 I need to keep driving it forward. 600 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,759 We're the police. 601 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,479 We can never give up, 602 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,239 and I have to maximise the pressure 603 00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:12,120 to bring Thomas Dures out of his current hiding location. 604 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,280 I was driving home from work and... 605 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,519 ...I get a call from DCI Fallows. 606 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,200 He said, "I'm coming to see you." 607 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:32,679 He said, "We've got him. 608 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,400 "H-He's given himself up. 609 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,360 "I'll start the extradition and get him back. 610 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,400 "You'll be able to get the justice you want now." 611 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,919 For the best part of 18 months, 612 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,399 me and my team have been looking for Thomas Dures. 613 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,999 I was told that he'd handed himself in, 614 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,639 in a police station in Athens. 615 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,000 I almost didn't believe it. 616 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:03,640 Yeah? 617 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,599 This didn't need to happen. 618 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,080 It was bravado gone wrong. 619 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:23,679 Because of the pack mentality, 620 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,719 because of social media, 621 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:31,440 that Matthew's group of friends riled themselves up... 622 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,680 ...leading to such terrible consequences. 623 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,959 But the obvious thing is, 624 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,919 why was Thomas Dures carrying a knife? 625 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,079 Didn't need to. 626 00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,679 And time and time, and time again, 627 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:58,119 we are finding young men committing grave crimes 628 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,880 simply because they're in possession of a knife. 629 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,079 What an utter waste of life, 630 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,200 and it's impacted on so many people. 631 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,160 The Daulby family will never be the same again. 632 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,440 It's senseless. 633 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,959 A parent shouldn't bury their child. 634 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,679 It's not how it should be. 635 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,879 And that yearning to just hug Matthew 636 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,280 and just have one last conversation with him... 637 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,879 ...or just hear him say that he loved you again, 638 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,520 so I could tell him... it's really difficult. 639 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:14,559 The night that Matthew went to Ormskirk, he hesitated, 640 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,239 so it was very much like a sliding doors moment. 641 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,359 I-I wish I could... 642 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,799 I could go back in time and... 643 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,959 ...and try and guide them in some way, 644 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,280 to make better decisions. 645 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:34,879 The Matthew Daulby Foundation is there to educate young people 646 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,959 on the dangers of violent altercations 647 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,120 and knife crime. 648 00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:47,519 So, we've decided as a family to launch a project 649 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,440 about immersive reasoning. 650 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,119 To get them to think about the decisions they're making, 651 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,559 and the consequences. 652 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,639 And this will be aimed at Year 8s in every senior school. 653 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,879 It could happen to anybody. 654 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,839 If we can prevent one more family 655 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,719 going through what we've been through, 656 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:06,720 it will be worth it. 657 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,160 Matthew was kind, funny, loving. 658 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,119 He would've been a really good person 659 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:19,400 for the world to have. 660 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,840 Subtitles by Red Bee Media