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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[Pumping acid house music]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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Andy Swallow, born in
1960, Stratford - East London.

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Had no option but to
be a West Ham fan.

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You was a West Ham fan.

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It was the East End thing,
you know what I mean?

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The ICF was pretty unique.

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We are talking about one of the
most important firms in England.

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Andy had that kind
of general mentality,

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like a lot of the top boys do,
every firm needs its generals.

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We don't care what the
government thinks about us.

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[Record skipping]
We was driving through,

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town to town,
picking up a few goods.

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But we didn't fancy it,
and as we was walking out,

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we was arrested.

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Danny was in the prison
and I was in the tower.

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Roll on to the acid house scene.

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We're going to set up
a radio station,

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and that's when it started,
24 hour, Centreforce began.

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We were the first 24 hour
house music station.

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What about making a record?
We could do this.

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We went off to a studio,
and we made a record.

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I had Craig David, I'd put out
Ms. Dynamite, Artful Dodger.

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It was only inevitable,
even though decades later

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that we came back.

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This is everybody's
story, this is my story,

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it's Danny's story and
Centreforce is the family.

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Yeah.
Nobody wanted them to succeed,

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there was nobody
giving them handouts.

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There was nobody helping
them along their way.

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There's only one
real, true underdog...

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[Pumping house music]

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[Solemn music]

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If you grow up kind of working
class, tenement, council house

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in the '60s or '70s, there's
not really a lot going for you,

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even more so in London
than in Edinburgh.

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You're in a place where
there's a lot of poverty,

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but amidst plenty.

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You can look basically
around the corner

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and see there's
all this stuff around,

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there's all this money,
you're in kind of a low status,

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low paid employment.

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So I think there's a culture.

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The whole dockland culture
is about chorie.

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It's about, if we can't make it,
we take it type of thing

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and the idea that nicking
something from your employer,

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you know, the docks
or wherever it is,

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it's not really theft,
it's a kind of tax

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a redistribution of wealth,

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a justified
redistribution of wealth.

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I think that kind of hustling
culture permeates dock areas,

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it permeates all
working class culture.

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[Soft music]

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Andy's from this area, from
across the road there basically

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and worked in that
market over there.

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And you look even now, everything
has changed in this area,

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the ethnicity's changed

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but the hustle and bustle
is just the very same,

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there's no way
you can be different,

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you're shaped by the
environment you live in

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and there is no way
anybody can grow up

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differently from that
environment basically,

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that makes you the person
that you are.

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[Uplifting music]

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No fencing here, this was where
we used to put all the barrows.

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So, from 7, 8, 9 years old,
we've come around here

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through the, you
can still see the doors

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even though the doors weren't
there, but it's a path down.

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We used to pull the barrows
out here into the market,

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around about 6-7 in the
morning, and then we'd pull 'em

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5-6 o'clock after the
game back into there.

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And it's funny enough, I
just looked through there

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and there's still barrows.

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I lived here literally Waghorn
Road, and used to cut through,

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my little cut through
to my school was there.

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And this is where I spent my life
as my first job was a barrow boy,

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pulling out barrows
from this actual place,

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which is quite amazing, really.

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My mum, bless us, you know
my dad left when I was 8,

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so my family behind there,
they were all fruit & veg

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and then my cousin and that,
they were broken biscuits.

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And then on the corner shop,
Mr. Candies or Candies,

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whichever one most I say,
possibly the other.

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We were broken biscuits, sweets,

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and my mum used to box
the sweets for Appleton's.

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And this is where I
started my trade of...

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I was doing fruit & veg
and then I ended up

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working on the food stall,
cheap food,

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cheap & nice - as the price

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'Don't walk past these,
walk past your own mother.'

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I ended up doing market trading.

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When I left school, I ended up...

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I was a trainee accountant,

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but later years
I was a market trader.

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And then from that,
I was doing T-shirts.

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I was doing the printed
T-shirts at football.

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I did the Inter City ones.

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So, sort of like, from that,

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you was always ducking
and diving, hustling.

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[Police sirens]

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If you look at Dickens who
kind of wrote about the East End

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and his characters
are based in the East End.

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Whether Dickens actually
knew an Oliver Twist

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or a Fagin or an Artful
Dodger or a Bill Sykes

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is kind of beside the
point in some ways

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because they are archetypes
and they are recognisable

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to a greater or lesser extent,

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not just in every community,
but in every one of us.

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Maybe Andy has a bit of
all these characters in him.

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You can have the sticky
fingers of the Artful Dodger,

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the organisational
skills of Fagin,

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the aggro of Bill Sykes and
maybe even that plaintive,

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romantic kind of urge of the
Oliver Twist character himself.

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I moved here when I was round
about 18 months, two years old.

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This is 30 Waghorn
Road. This is my home.

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I spent it here until
I was nearly 17.

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My mates were here, this
is where I always say that

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the Inter City Firm
sort of was born out of,

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and the original Essex
East London Firm,

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we all lived,
we all stayed in here.

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My sister was born here.

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She was eight years
younger than me, Mandy.

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Me, my mum, and
my sister lived here.

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Don't know if you
remember back in the days

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that you always was in the
kitchen or in the smaller room.

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That front room there
was the sweet shop.

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That's where all the
sweets were made.

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Later on, down the line, my mum
didn't... it was our posh room.

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You had your blue
carpet where I'd laugh,

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and the back room
was where we sat,

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and we all had food
and watched telly.

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I remember when the first colour
telly was delivered around '71.

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This was where I was
born and brought up till '76.

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Yeah. Fond memories.

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It's really weird.
It seems so small.

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From when I was
here, it seemed so big.

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This was a cricket pitch. Yeah.

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Yeah. Good memories.
Good memories.

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Even though I think
things have changed. Yeah.

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Good memories. Yeah,
I'm glad we came here.

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[Uplifting music]

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[Dark chords]

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My name's Gardner. Bill Gardner.

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Cass Pennant.

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Carlton Leach.

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I first started going
to West Ham in 19...

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the last two games
of the 1957-58 season.

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I went with my dad
who was a Spurs fan.

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He used to take me to Spurs
one week, and West Ham another

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for a while and then I drifted
off and done my own thing.

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First game at West Ham,
I was eight years old.

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The year the World Cup
winners, Hurst, Moore, Peters,

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just magical years once you've
gone to your first ground.

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For me, you know, I've
got a different background.

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I was a Dr Barnardo's kid
from Barkingside

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but ended up on the other side.

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So going to West Ham and
the only colour that mattered

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was claret and blue,
you know what I mean?

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I was always going to
come back to West Ham.

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West Ham was my home,
more than my home was.

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I was born five minutes
from where we are now,

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East End Maternity.

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So, I'm on my own
stomping ground.

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What made me decide to go,
was my dad was born in Dagenham,

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West Ham fan and being
on his shoulders in 1964

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when we won the FA Cup
and the bus going past

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and the wooden rattle
with the scarf

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and I drove him insane in 1965,

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'Dad, dad, dad, I wanna go
West Ham, I wanna go West Ham!'

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And I remember going to
the old fruit and veg shop

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getting a wooden crate
and then we walk in

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the whole length of Green
Street up to Upton Park,

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he'd slip me in
through the turnstiles,

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give the geezer a drink

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or whatever, two bob or
whatever it was in them days

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and him putting me down
the front of the west side

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standing on the box.

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So, 1965, I was six years old,

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and it was in me
from that day on.

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I lived in Upton Park.

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A stone's throw from
West Ham football ground,

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had no option but to
be a West Ham fan.

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You was a West Ham fan.

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So, I was brought up
in the area.

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If you said to me, your
first memories of West Ham,

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it's the brick wall
at the North bank.

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Because I come up the
stairs at the brick wall

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and I used to
sit on that brick...

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I used to balance
on the wall and then I got,

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from about 9-10

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and then for me
the biggest memory

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is doing the Knees Up
Mother Brown

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in the middle of the North bank

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and ending up behind the goal

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and they'd all back up
again, they'd all surge up,

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and the old songs of, they
weren't really football songs,

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Maybe It's Because I'm A
Londoner, Knees Up Mother Brown,

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Drove A Wheelbarrow,

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they're all traditional
cockney songs

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and you took that with you
wherever you went.

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And you know, when
I talk about football,

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my smells of football
are totally different.

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Do you know what I smell?

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I smell standing on
Mile End station at 14:15

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and the smell of the
underground train coming in

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that you could never
smell anything like.

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It's like burning rubber, wind
of the old Metropolitan Line

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00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:01,560
coming through that
used to whistle through

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00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:02,880
before the train came in.

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00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,400
I remember that
smell more than...

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00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:06,680
probably anything
else at football.

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00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,560
If you said to me,
football, Mile End station,

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00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,080
500 of you and that
smell of that train,

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00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,280
and trying to get those
black knob things off.

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00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,200
Tried to smuggle them but
just couldn't get them.

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00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,200
My mates used to come out and go,
you want one of them?

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00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:22,640
I used to swing on 'em.

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00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,120
But yeah, and being...

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wanting to be a part of it.

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Wanting to be
part of that culture.

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00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,080
It was always going
to be West Ham for me.

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00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,680
The people, I loved the people
and I still do now.

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00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,360
Real people like these
two here, real people.

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00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,400
Everything about
West Ham was different.

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00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,440
Football, when you're working
class and it was Great Britain

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00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,720
then before it was UK
so it's a different nation,

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00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:53,800
you know what I mean?

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00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,200
And West Ham was
different to all the others.

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Fans were different, the ground,
everything about West Ham,

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00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,360
I felt like I was stepping in
a new world where basically

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everyone was different
instead of just me.

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00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,120
You know what I
mean? I can't explain it.

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00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,160
You've got to look at the times.

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00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,680
We was kicking off
when we was 13, 14.

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00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,800
It was skinhead boot boy era.

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00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,920
We wear boots and
braces to school back then,

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00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,160
but we've known each
other since we're 14.

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00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,040
And then Bill,
I've come across in '72

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and the kind of older guy
took me under his wing.

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00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,320
I was abused as a kid, and
I left home when I was 14

242
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,960
and lived in a church,
in a graveyard,

243
00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,680
and I used to love football.

244
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:41,800
My dad used to love football.

245
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,800
He played for London
Schoolboys when he was a kid,

246
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,160
and he knew loads of people
that played for Tottenham,

247
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,720
that's why he used
to take me there.

248
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,600
I was looking for a family,

249
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:53,080
I was looking for people
that I can look after.

250
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,680
That's how I would describe it.

251
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,640
I dunno how it sounds
to anyone listening,

252
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,240
but I took myself as
I've never had nothing.

253
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,880
I would never have nothing,

254
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,280
but I want to give something,
and that was loyalty.

255
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,440
So, I wanted to give loyalty
to the people that stood by me.

256
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,800
And I think that there's
not a man on this planet

257
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,280
that can say I
haven't done that.

258
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,760
If Bill, I say Bill because he's
one of the most well-known,

259
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,680
if he said we was doing
this, we was doing that.

260
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,840
But by the time
we got to sort of 18,

261
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,240
we was doing our
own thing and I think Bill

262
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,560
and all of them were
quite confident in...

263
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,360
we was quite good at
doing what we was doing,

264
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:36,560
if that makes sense.

265
00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:40,160
So... But if we got a message
that you ain't going there,

266
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,960
we weren't going there.
That was a fact.

267
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:47,440
But we started to push boundaries
and do it our own way.

268
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:49,760
I went to my first away
game when I was 11.

269
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,200
I travelled the country.

270
00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,080
Some of my friends are
still friends and still talk to now.

271
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,560
Moose. I've known
him since I was 9.

272
00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,480
Grant Fleming, I've
known Grant since I was 15.

273
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,040
Grant Fleming was a
very good friend of mine.

274
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,840
Very, very clever person.

275
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,560
I'm actually going to just
sum him up as I would sum it.

276
00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,720
He's strange in a nice way.

277
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:13,280
He's the one that's
travelled the world.

278
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,280
He's the one that's been
up and took pictures.

279
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,600
He's the one that if he
could go live with people

280
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,120
up in the mountains, he'd do it.

281
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,880
He's the ultimate character.

282
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,520
He'll always be one of
my best friends

283
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:29,320
but we don't see each other purely
based because you move apart.

284
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,560
But he's a big, big character

285
00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,000
and a massive character
in football,

286
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,440
massive character
in the music industry.

287
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,040
All the boys pretty much lived
at my house every weekend.

288
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,920
My house was like,
my mum looked after...

289
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,160
she pretty much started
the Inter City Firm.

290
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,280
She looked after all of us.

291
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,280
This is number 30 and I
can remember coming here

292
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,240
as a kid and dropping off
shopping for Auntie Pam

293
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,440
as we used to call her,
Mrs. Swallow

294
00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:00,800
and I think only on
one or two occasions

295
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,440
I actually went in the house,

296
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,480
but generally through
the market,

297
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:06,520
if I did ever help her
with the shopping,

298
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,080
I'd sort of leave it here
and she used to take it in.

299
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,000
Came out with a little
bag of sweets for you.

300
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,240
Give me a couple of
sweets from... as Andy says,

301
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,160
from the front room,
but because she...

302
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,240
I remember she used
to carry a lot of sweets

303
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,840
in her coat, a long coat.

304
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,880
[Drum and bass music]

305
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,400
My house became the hub,
so we're 15, 16,

306
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,800
we'd end up in the Boleyn and
if we wasn't home by half 11,

307
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,640
my mum would be marching
up that road, whacking us.

308
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,880
Now, don't forget,
we'd become later on

309
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,320
to be the most feared gang in
the field as we would say.

310
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,880
She would get on and
whack us all the way home.

311
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,800
We must have had, if I said
there was 15, 20 of us,

312
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:50,920
there was 30.

313
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,320
My front room, it was
covered with people.

314
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,040
Everyone would stay every game.

315
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,080
We used to go from
here and this was our hub.

316
00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,480
This was our Boleyn, Chinese,

317
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,720
make sure we was in by 11:30
because she would whack us.

318
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:04,680
My parents did not
want me to go football,

319
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,160
they didn't want
me to play football,

320
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:08,400
they didn't want
me to go West Ham,

321
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,360
they didn't want me
involved in anything.

322
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,320
So, I used to have
to lie the whole time

323
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,840
to actually go to West Ham.

324
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,600
And even when I was
17, 18 and old enough,

325
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,200
I still couldn't face my dad and
tell him I was going West Ham.

326
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,760
He knew where I was
going, and he knew

327
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,920
I was going to go in
the pubs and whatever.

328
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,520
It's quite weird. It's all like
a crossing period, this,

329
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,440
because '76, '77 is a
massive period for music.

330
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,760
Punk. Punk rock
kicks in, we're rebelling.

331
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,480
It's another rebel isn't
it? Football is rebellion.

332
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,680
All of a sudden
something else kicked off.

333
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,520
So, we was punks and I
quickly come out of that.

334
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:49,680
Everyone was sort of switching.

335
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,120
There was Madness and
all that was coming through.

336
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,320
The Two-Tone was coming
through, and I became a mod.

337
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,480
My ears were too big
to be a skinhead.

338
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,640
I looked at it and I thought,
I can't have big ears.

339
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,880
We used to laugh, we
used to go down the Brit,

340
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,040
you'd have a Gabicci,
a gold chain,

341
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,560
a pair of Farahs or
Waxmans and a round glass.

342
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,400
We started to drink
out of round glasses,

343
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,760
not the jug,
round glass, a bowl.

344
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,320
So, it was all fashion
consciousness.

345
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,880
So then that was
a big part for us.

346
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,200
The music, then Oi came in.

347
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,680
Massive, yeah, one of the best
bands around, Cockney Rejects.

348
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,760
[Punk music]

349
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,560
[Cockney Rejects singing
'Forever blowing bubbles']

350
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,120
Andy: London's finest...

351
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,040
Hello, Micky.

352
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:49,760
How we doing, Ed?
All good.

353
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,240
Well basically, it was
a bit of the East End.

354
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,520
There wasn't a lot music
wise from around there.

355
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,200
We had the Small Faces from
Leytonstone and Bethnal Green.

356
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,920
Couple of other bits and
pieces, but, you know,

357
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,640
we decided we'd
take our love of football

358
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,360
and our love of rock and roll
and meld them together

359
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,680
and become what we
thought was the world's

360
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,640
first terrace band because
we love West Ham.

361
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,400
My grandad played for
West Ham, you know what I mean?

362
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,560
So, we had a vested interest,
lived a mile from the ground,

363
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,920
and basically, we all just met up
and we all moved as one.

364
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,320
It was our firm and
that was what we did.

365
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,680
We all moved as one.
We went to all the gigs.

366
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,720
We caused chaos, we had
chaos, you know what I mean?

367
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,440
We lived in the fast lane,
and I don't regret any of it.

368
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:38,960
It was mad, but it was great.

369
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,680
You've got to remember
as well though,

370
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,200
if you look at the
history of the bands,

371
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,480
I don't think there's many
bands that would actually take

372
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,440
full football songs on the road
and not even alter 'em.

373
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,760
Running Through
The Back Streets,

374
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:52,960
War On The Terraces,
Bubbles.

375
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,480
And I know Jimmy Percy
and them got

376
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,840
sort of hoodwinked into
putting the West Ham thing,

377
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:03,680
but these boys actually went into
Liverpool and played Bubbles,

378
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,680
War On The Terraces, Running
Through The Back Streets.

379
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:11,200
You can name them, you know,
really hardcore football songs.

380
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,080
If you imagine a band
from Liverpool or Leeds

381
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,320
or something like coming
to London and doing that,

382
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,680
then there'd be consequences.

383
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,320
When you look at it though, Mick

384
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,320
you took the hardcore of songs

385
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,400
that were football
related to other...

386
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,400
And the hardcore
of West Ham as well.

387
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,240
[Rainfall]

388
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,560
I'm a lot older so... we used
to go on the train in them days

389
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,520
and we'd get off the train and
you'd look around with people.

390
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,040
You always know the people
that ain't going to be there

391
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:44,960
and I've got nothing
against them people at all

392
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,200
because it takes all
types to make the world.

393
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840
They'd be the ones that'd be
laying back a bit, you know?

394
00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,240
They'd be hanging back
and then the ones at the front

395
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,080
you used to look
around and it'd be these;

396
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:59,760
Cass, Carlton, Andy, myself,
Ted, my mate, Big Ted,

397
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,320
loyal people that
are loyal to this day.

398
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,520
I met Andy when
he was at school.

399
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,880
He went to school with me
sister at Brampton Manor.

400
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,480
He was a young Andy

401
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,880
and obviously he knew
my mum and dad.

402
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:19,960
He grew up within that environment
and Cass, everybody did.

403
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,480
Our house was open house,
wasn't it, for the football fans!

404
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,080
But yeah, so I've known Andy
all these years and like I said

405
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,840
he's always been there,
at the front, with everything.

406
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,520
If you look back at us
going to away games,

407
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,400
it was the year of
the football special.

408
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,240
So, you used to get
the football special

409
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,920
and what you're finding
with a football special,

410
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,520
they were slow trains home,

411
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,400
they were the worst
trains you could get on

412
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,080
and they were slow trains home.

413
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,720
So, what we used to
note is that we could get...

414
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,080
Let's just say Saturday,
going to Manchester

415
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,360
and we pulled in part way home,

416
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,360
we see the Inter City
trains on the opposite.

417
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,120
We'd all jump off,
get on the Inter City train

418
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,680
and we'd be back home probably
an hour and a half quicker.

419
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,440
So that led us to
think we might as well

420
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,520
try going on these trains.

421
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,640
I'm just remembering
you get the label off

422
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,720
the Persil soap packet,
right?

423
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,240
And it worked out
for us to go

424
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,680
cheaper that way than going
on these shuttle trains.

425
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,440
I think it was, if I'm right,
it was two kids

426
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,360
could travel free with
one adult over 16.

427
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,680
So that's how we was all
travelling in groups of three.

428
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,760
Get someone who's over 16,
they'd buy a ticket, and we go,

429
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,960
I think it went for
£1, I think it was £1.

430
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,600
I'm pretty certain
that's how it started.

431
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,520
And then me and Grant,
and that became a big thing.

432
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,680
I don't think there's not
many people didn't get on that.

433
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,800
Hooliganism was
just very haphazard

434
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,000
in the '60s or '70s,
it was all about

435
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,600
it all took place inside
the ground basically,

436
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,000
it was all about charging,
British Bulldogs and all that

437
00:20:57,080 --> 00:20:59,960
and it was great fun and you
could be a mug like myself,

438
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,520
and you could get involved
in all that and spill around

439
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,000
and flip around in the terraces.

440
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,600
But then it moved outside.

441
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,240
When it moved outside
the grounds

442
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,720
it needed a bit
more organisation,

443
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,840
you needed someone to
kind of... to basically...

444
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,840
you needed generals to emerge,
people who could actually

445
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,680
give it a bit of thought and
how you got to these places,

446
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,760
how you got to stadiums is
important and who you met

447
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,160
and how you organised
and all that sort of stuff

448
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:33,600
and it was all based that Andy
had that general mentality,

449
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,960
like a lot of the top boys do.

450
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,400
Every firm needs its
generals,

451
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,960
needed it at the time.

452
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:47,280
There's three of us that
came up with a name.

453
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:51,480
There's me, Grant, and there's
Mick Morgan, Ramsgate,

454
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,000
and we've got three
different stories.

455
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,280
I could tell my story.
Grant would tell his story

456
00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,880
and I've heard recently
Micky tell his story.

457
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,120
And it's funny because we was
involved in something that we

458
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,480
I suppose we set up, but
we didn't realise we set up,

459
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,840
we never had no history
of how we set it up.

460
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,200
You know what I mean?
If that makes sense,

461
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,880
I didn't turn up and say we're
going to sign a bit of paper,

462
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,240
and our first bit was
signing that paper.

463
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,160
We all have our recollections of

464
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,720
how we became
the Inter City Firm.

465
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,160
My recollection of being
the Inter City Firm

466
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:29,000
is standing in the corner of
the south bank, 20 or 30 of us,

467
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,520
singing ICF all game.
All game for a year.

468
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,080
That was the inter-city
days when it was...

469
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200
And obviously
because Inter City Firm,

470
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,800
I dunno, it just caught on,
Inter City travel.

471
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,320
We would've been
called the Inter City Jibbers.

472
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,080
That's what our first name was,
because what we used to do,

473
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,680
we used to jump off the train
halfway home and jib home.

474
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,200
So then from that
there was a little rail sign

475
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,520
and we used to call ourselves
the Inter City Jibbers.

476
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,600
Now people in the know will
know, before we was the ICF,

477
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,360
it was the Beret Boys.

478
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,000
All West Ham had the
bomber jacket and the beret,

479
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,800
which is all the Brit lot, which
is a little bit older than me.

480
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,920
The Gary Dickles, the Vince
Riordans, Johnny Butlers,

481
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,640
they were all the Beret Boys.

482
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,360
So, they're the Beret Boys.

483
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,400
I've come from the EELF.

484
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,680
And then all of a sudden, we've
now got the Inter City Jibbers.

485
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,440
Now we've got, this is
where my side of it comes.

486
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,840
Grant nicks this bag

487
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,720
and it's got British Rail,
Inter-City on it.

488
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,320
And then we said come on,
we'll be the Inter City Firm

489
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,840
and from there we
become the ICF.

490
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,960
The Beret Boys became
the Good-Looking Firm.

491
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,160
They used to put these
notes in and batter us,

492
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,160
because we were
the younger ones.

493
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,880
Then we had a little, few
younger ones come in with us,

494
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,760
which would be the
Abrahams, the Rogers,

495
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,360
Lee Downers, Parker, Bacon,
and they were the Under-Fives.

496
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,520
So, they never had a name and
they become the Under-Fives.

497
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,920
So, we would fight them.

498
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,240
We would, not you know,
coming home on trains,

499
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,720
we would have a fight with them.

500
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,840
We would then get beat up
by the Good-Looking Firm

501
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,480
and then all of a sudden, we
just evolved to be one big firm,

502
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,880
which was the ICF.

503
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,120
And then the
Under-Fives had their own,

504
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,680
which become a little bit
more unique down the line.

505
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,800
But I'd say when we stepped into
the game, we was all one firm.

506
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:32,080
You can go anywhere in
the country, any small town,

507
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,520
anywhere, and you'll find people
there that are game for it.

508
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,960
I used to enjoy going,
I used to enjoy going to Millwall

509
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,880
because one thing I thought was

510
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,560
they were very much
like us in those times.

511
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,560
There wasn't no stabbings
and none of that nonsense

512
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,840
that goes on, now, we'd go
there and we'd have a fight

513
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,680
and it'd be all over and
nobody innocent would get hit,

514
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,840
it'd only be the people that
wanted to fight would fight,

515
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,600
but that don't sell
newspapers so people put it out

516
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,120
that all these people,
innocent people are getting hurt

517
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,120
absolute nonsense.

518
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,280
There might've been one
or two that got in the way.

519
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,000
I don't know that, but
all I know is what I saw

520
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:11,360
and what I experienced.

521
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,840
The only people I used to fight

522
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,760
were the ones who
used to want to fight me.

523
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,160
The first of it stems
from Villa away.

524
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,000
We had this thing
about taking ends.

525
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,040
This is why we say
about the Under-Fives.

526
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:23,720
That's why we're coming into it.

527
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,960
This is pre-ICF.

528
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,040
When we travelled away,

529
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,120
we had such a reputation
by then, it was getting harder.

530
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,000
So we didn't want kids with us.

531
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,640
You went up north and
you know what I mean,

532
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,600
monsters, some of em.

533
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,280
So we'd always try
and lose the kids.

534
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,200
We felt it weakened the firm
and we got in Villa one day

535
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:41,880
and there's one end
we've not taken

536
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,720
and Chelsea had done a
little go of it so we thought

537
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,440
we've got to have a part here,

538
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,400
but we got thwarted and it's
kicking off in the Villa end,

539
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,000
I remember everyone was
looking around, what firm is it?

540
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000
And we looked around,
every firm was in away that day

541
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,040
and we were baffled why is
it kicking off in the Villa end

542
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:00,600
and all of a sudden they
were marched out by the police

543
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,680
and frog-marched along the pitch
and it was the Under-Fives.

544
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,080
We'd be at Euston,
Kings Cross, wherever it was

545
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,680
and then you'd have all
the older lot go to the front,

546
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,200
get the money and two
young ones would be with you.

547
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,400
So it looked like you had the
two adults and two young ones.

548
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,320
And so we started
travelling Inter-City.

549
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,040
That's the way we
got to travel now.

550
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:21,960
And that's when Persil
came out because

551
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,840
how can you get the whole
firm on an Inter-City train?

552
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240
It's first class, different price.
Persil was a godsend.

553
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,120
We found something
a little bit different.

554
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,240
By around about 17, my mum
moved me out of East London

555
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,920
to get me out of trouble.

556
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:36,640
So, she moved me to Southend,

557
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,480
which got me in
probably more trouble.

558
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,960
So, and Grant was
only two stops away.

559
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,640
So, I used to get on at Southend,
all Chelsea, quite lively for me.

560
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,520
One day we got
into the ticket inspector's box.

561
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,760
They used to have their own
little box, we rummaged through.

562
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:53,560
We found his ticket, his thing.

563
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,240
So, we worked out
how to write 'em out.

564
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,080
So, we used to write a ticket.

565
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,760
When you look at it now, our
crew, we used to write a ticket,

566
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,080
Benfleet in pen to
Newcastle and it's like £11.60

567
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,680
and we used to tear it and
when we used to get pulled,

568
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:10,920
we used to show that,
and it worked,

569
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,920
and we just started
writing tickets.

570
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,800
We used to write our
own book every game.

571
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,880
There was no stamp,
there was nothing.

572
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,160
The ticket inspector
didn't know what they was,

573
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,400
no one knew what they was.

574
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,520
And we travelled probably
two or three seasons.

575
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:24,880
And then we
started selling them.

576
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,400
We took on a new role as a job.

577
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,200
I can actually talk about it
now because my mum

578
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,520
can't tell me off because I'm
sure she would've told me off.

579
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,080
I think even to the day
she wouldn't have

580
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,440
believed what we was doing.

581
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,560
So basically, what we did,
fashion had come in

582
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,720
and jumpers and that
were through the roof.

583
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,520
He was supplying me t-shirts.

584
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,680
He was a bit of a market
boy, a bit of a barrow boy,

585
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,040
but he was always
on the next move.

586
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,040
And I remember
the funniest thing

587
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,640
looking at the older guard, we
was picking up on this early,

588
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,840
the casual thing
really started late '70s

589
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,680
with the Scousers and the Mancs.

590
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,080
But the London boys, they
take it a little bit further.

591
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,920
You're a size 8,
so we know we need an 8,

592
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,040
we know we need a 10.

593
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,840
We know that we need
an extra-large track suit.

594
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,680
Lacoste, didn't matter what
it was, they were buying it.

595
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,960
So the Lacoste thing,
'What's all this with the crocodile?'

596
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:19,920
You know what I mean?

597
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,080
West Ham still had
that hard man image

598
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,880
because the Krays of the
'60s going into the late '70s.

599
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,280
So they're still wearing the
old DMs and maybe swapped

600
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,560
for the trainers and
sort of mako look

601
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,240
and all of a sudden these
boys looking like pop stars

602
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,400
with the polo tops

603
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,360
and Andy was already on that

604
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,520
because he's flogging me
these double crocs

605
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,760
and suddenly at Green Street,
walking down Green Street,

606
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,360
the older guard are wearing
them in their 70s, quite proud.

607
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,640
And I think, I see them,
and Andy, I said 'What's these?'

608
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,080
And he's always on
the next move like,

609
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,760
'No Cass, this is the next thing,

610
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,080
everyone's wearing the
one croc, we're West Ham,

611
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,200
we've got the two crocs,
double croc.'

612
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,480
I bought a shirt off him,
it had 6 legs.

613
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,720
Snide. Know what I mean,
snide.

614
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,960
Like I said,
he was a funny man.

615
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,360
He was having a chuckle
because the older crew,

616
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:09,920
everyone's kind of looking up to

617
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,120
thought they were like
bang top boys

618
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,160
all wearing double crocs
without even realising.

619
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,160
It's one of
Andy's moves again.

620
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,720
You know what I mean?
It's sell anybody anything.

621
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,240
I didn't know till
I went to the zoo

622
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,040
that a crocodile
only had four legs.

623
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,400
He was always funny.

624
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,800
I used to call him,
'my naughty big boy',

625
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,960
because he were a
wolf in sheep's clothing.

626
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,200
That's how I regarded him.

627
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,120
We found a unique
way of doing it.

628
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,520
We started leaving...
We get a train,

629
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,920
we go Clacton on a
Saturday, Sunday night.

630
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,720
We spend the night
in a caravan at Clacton.

631
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,800
We then go to Harwich;
we'd get the boat across

632
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,400
to Hook of Holland
and then we'd get trains.

633
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,080
We'd all split up.

634
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,360
There'd be say three
or four of us, we'd go off

635
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,600
and we'd go around
thieving from shops.

636
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,880
So, everybody would go off
Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday,

637
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,800
thieving, and we'd all
meet at Wendy's in Cologne

638
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,680
8 o'clock and then we'd all
come back together on Thursday.

639
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,480
Back to the pub on Friday
to the Brit with all your gear,

640
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,680
sell it all,
football on the Saturday,

641
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,800
you didn't have Friday night games,
you didn't have Sunday,

642
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,800
you'd have a midweek
game every now and then.

643
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,680
It was predominantly
Saturday, 3 o'clock.

644
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,960
So, all back for the football,
back off on the Sunday.

645
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,560
That's what I did for
a job until one day,

646
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,160
me, Danny, and Dave,
we decided to take a car.

647
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:43,720
It seems strange,

648
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,360
a lot different to when I was here
around about '84.

649
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,920
Well we know '84, I had
my old Mark 4 Red Cortina,

650
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,080
me, Danny and the Lud
and we was driving through,

651
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,040
town to town
picking up a few goods

652
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,240
and we didn't come home.

653
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,800
We used to go around
mainly on trains and boats.

654
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,760
We used to... it was in
the highlight of if you like,

655
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,920
when all the fashion of the
clothes came up and about.

656
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:19,160
So basically we would go from
town to town through Germany,

657
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,320
up to Switzerland, Austria,
going in, looking at shops,

658
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,840
looking for Ellesse,
Fila, Sergio Tacchini.

659
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,960
And we used to have
a list of people's sizes.

660
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,160
And on this particular
three day excursion,

661
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,360
we came over and
we was making our way

662
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,920
up to the Swiss ski resorts, trying
to pick off some Ellesse jackets.

663
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,800
When we got a bit further up,
they wanted to put chains

664
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,960
on our wheels, but on route
we'd already found a place.

665
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,520
We were reading it as 'Bad-un'
and it's actually 'Bar-den'.

666
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:51,120
So we thought let's
have a look around.

667
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,240
We see some
lovely leather jackets.

668
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,240
So we sort of sized them up,

669
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,240
said we'd get 'em
on the way back.

670
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,920
We came back to Baden
quicker than we thought.

671
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,280
We were looking at the
leathers and whatever.

672
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,680
We didn't fancy it and as we
was walking out, we was arrested.

673
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,160
The Lud was in a police station.

674
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,960
Danny was in a prison
and I was in the tower,

675
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,120
which is famous,
which I've read up...

676
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,200
witches, robbers and murderers.

677
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,320
So I'm not sure what
category I fell into.

678
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,800
Hopefully not the witches.

679
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,120
So we're going
to drive to Baden.

680
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,200
We're going to go and have a
look at my cell, I believe,

681
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,360
that I stayed in.

682
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,720
Wow. There she is.
Wow, look at that.

683
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,240
I'm not sure if I was
1, 2, 3, 4...

684
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,120
1 below the bell and 1 down.

685
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,040
That's mad. That's unbelievable.

686
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,960
It actually looks a lovely
place. It's a lovely place.

687
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,360
I must have been taken up
them back stairs there.

688
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,840
Look, wow, 40 years ago, eh?

689
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,080
How mad is that?

690
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,160
We going to look for
somewhere to park?

691
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,400
I want to go and have a look.

692
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,680
It's quite strange
pulling up here today,

693
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,400
looking at this lovely
tower behind me.

694
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,280
I was here around
about April '84.

695
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,560
I was led up these
stairs to something that

696
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,360
thinking back now, when I look
at it, it looks daunting now,

697
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,720
but coming back in '84,
where probably

698
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,480
things look a little bleaker.

699
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:31,760
And I spent three months,
three and a half months,

700
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,360
solitary confinement
in this tower.

701
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,040
This courtyard, as you
can see, this is dated,

702
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,320
well, back to the...

703
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,200
what's it, 1445 century?
[Bells ring]

704
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,280
There's the bells used to
wake me up, bang on time,

705
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:46,920
that was above my cell.

706
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,440
Every day, every hour
I'd get these bells.

707
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,520
What's it? 11 o'clock,
12 o'clock now?

708
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,320
I think they put me in there
to come out like Quasimodo!

709
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,520
Look at that! Imagine that
every day for four months.

710
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,040
Every hour, you got that.

711
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,120
I think they put me in here

712
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,680
to teach me a lesson,
not to come back to Baden.

713
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,720
[Solemn music]

714
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,440
Wow, look at that.

715
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,440
So I finally get to go in
on my own accord.

716
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,600
Wow, unbelievable!

717
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,280
Mate, look at that.

718
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,920
As I said, my light
was on my wall.

719
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,000
This light was on
four in the morning.

720
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,760
I had my table, my chair
here, my bed was here.

721
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,280
And this is where I used to
put my chair just by this window

722
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:17,800
and I could open that window.

723
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,280
I'm not sure if
I could now, but,

724
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,680
so I could possibly open
that window with my arm.

725
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,240
Little locks...

726
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,760
Look. Lock these,
open it and then

727
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,480
we used to get the bucket,
boom it against here

728
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,560
and you get it out there.

729
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,120
Yeah, look at these.

730
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,720
Look at this. Wow.

731
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,960
Four months in here.
Where's my little sign of...

732
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,400
is that gone now?

733
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,080
I had my chart on there
somewhere of my...

734
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,120
how many days I was here.

735
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,360
I wonder if many people
came here after me.

736
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:01,760
Forget that.

737
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,840
I reckon someone else done that.
It was a fake.

738
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,640
And as I said,
I've got that on my arm.

739
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:10,760
Look at that.

740
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,560
Taken from my arm.

741
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,720
To a picture
on the wall, wow.

742
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:18,960
Daunting.

743
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,680
Yeah. Look at that.

744
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,720
Ah, here. This would be
where I start to do my days.

745
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,040
Someone did theirs.
This is mine here.

746
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,600
'Andy Swallow, April.'

747
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,680
It's soaking wet innit?

748
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,200
Yeah. Here somewhere
would be my chart

749
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,320
because here's my,
'Andy Swallow, March-April 84.'

750
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,600
Look at that. Wow.

751
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,200
I don't remember this one.

752
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,200
Don't remember this.

753
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,240
Just still can remember my bed.

754
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,280
So I used to do my walk.
I said 20 steps.

755
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,880
I used to do my steps.

756
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,920
So I used to do
1, 2, 3... It's 12 isn't it?

757
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,520
7, 8, 9, 10, Turn.

758
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,480
And then one, two...

759
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,120
That was my exercise for the day
was walking up and down here

760
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,960
about a hundred times.

761
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,400
In the end, I said,
'Just try and do it like that.'

762
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,880
To see if I can work out how
many it was, I think it was 12.

763
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:31,280
6, 7, 8, 9, 10.
Oh, 10, 11, 12.

764
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,040
It's got bigger. 14 steps.
Yeah.

765
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,520
As I say, that would be
my exercise path

766
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,880
would be up and down here.

767
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,520
My press ups and sit ups.
I might have to do a few.

768
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,400
Wow.

769
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,400
I don't know what to say.

770
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,800
Takes me back.

771
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,040
Good evening,
the headlines at 6 o'clock.

772
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,960
Britain's football hooligans
have started their season early

773
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,040
with a riot on a
North Sea ferry.

774
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,760
Knives were used, bottles
and glasses thrown,

775
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,560
behaviour which could
prolong the ban

776
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,280
on English teams playing abroad.

777
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,680
We decided to meet in
the Brit and get the last ferry

778
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,320
to the Hook of Holland,
we was going to Den Haag.

779
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,480
That was it.

780
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,720
So, we get to the station,
to Liverpool Street, walked in.

781
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,600
Looked around and thought,
'Who are all these?'

782
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,640
There was loads,
I'm talking a lot.

783
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,120
Especially I think,
these ain't West Ham

784
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,920
because all our lot are
gone, we know they're gone.

785
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,240
All of a sudden, I'm looking
and thinking, 'Who's this lot?'

786
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,200
Man United, came to London,

787
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,520
you've got a lot of cockney red,
they've come to London,

788
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,560
they're on the same train
as us at Liverpool Street,

789
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,040
they're going to
the Hook of Holland,

790
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,480
they're going... to
somewhere like Rotterdam.

791
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,200
Somewhere like that.
They was off.

792
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,840
So, I think, 'Oh no,
what we going to do?'

793
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,400
So, we go up, spoke
to the fellow and he said,

794
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,800
'You get this boat,
or you don't.'

795
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,400
So, there was an
upper-class ticket and, mad,

796
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,480
the actual room
we bought the ticket for,

797
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,720
was called the Inter City suite,
how mad is that?

798
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,600
So, we bought first
class tickets, 14 of us,

799
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,880
we go upstairs on the ferry now.

800
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,120
The ferry goes out and a
few drinks, there's got to be...

801
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,960
in my estimation I'd say
it's a good 300+, maybe 400,

802
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,040
their estimation of the story,
whether it makes much difference,

803
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:40,640
there was 200 of them,
didn't make a lot of difference.

804
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,680
We were still
really outnumbered.

805
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,480
BBC News: "The Dutch-owned
Koningin Beatrix

806
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,600
packed with 2,000 holidaymakers
left Harwich on schedule

807
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,640
late last night but two hours
into her journey,

808
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,800
the ferry, the pride
of Sealink's fleet,

809
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,800
was turned into
a battle ground."

810
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,240
And then had a few
beers, ferry's gone off.

811
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,240
I said, 'Oh come on, let's
go down and have a chat.'

812
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,440
So, me and three of my
mates went downstairs

813
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,840
but they ended up
getting big lumps of bird.

814
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,120
We was talking to
'em alright at first,

815
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,720
but there'd been a major
incident where one of theirs

816
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,800
had been stabbed at Plaistow

817
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,160
and someone had sent him a
get well card from all the West Ham,

818
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,160
and they took in some flowers
and didn't go down too well.

819
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:26,080
So, as I'm talking to them,
they're all getting around me

820
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,240
and I was saying to them,

821
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,800
'Any of you from Manchester?

822
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,440
You're from Wolves, you're from...
any Manchester here?'

823
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,080
A geezer's gone,
'I'm from Manchester.'

824
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,160
And all of a sudden, I could see
he was coming up with a bottle.

825
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:38,800
So, I said, 'Well it's time to go.'

826
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:41,280
'They're here, they're here.'

827
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,040
Next minute it was carnage.
It was...

828
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,640
Joe, bless his soul, he saved us
really because he got the hose

829
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:51,440
from the seat and
blocked off one staircase.

830
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,240
They were trying to get up,
but he was hosing them down

831
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,800
and then we held off the others.

832
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,600
There was me, Taffy, Danny,
it went on 30, 40 minutes.

833
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,520
It went on that long,
they turned the boat round

834
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,640
and took us back.
I thought we was there.

835
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,160
But anyway, I was lucky.

836
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:09,560
We've all sort of made out
it's nothing to do with us.

837
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,520
For some reason I took my
shoes off for some reason.

838
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,880
Changed my shoes,
changed my coat, sat down,

839
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,000
went up and got
my jacket, sat there

840
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,600
and the thing they was doing
was coming up testing your feet,

841
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,560
where they were wet.

842
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,600
BBC Reporter: Fans arriving
back in London

843
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,040
gave a grim catalogue
of the running battle.

844
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,880
There's a lot
of slashing and things.

845
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,000
BBC Reporter: What, knives?

846
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,160
Yeah, blades and bottles
and things.

847
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,760
When the boat pulled in,
they started pulling...

848
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:34,880
first of all they started
taking off the casualties,

849
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,880
I think it was something like
22 taken off, went to hospital,

850
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,800
they were taking people off in
chairs and it's all documented.

851
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,600
So, we still ain't really
thought about what's gone on.

852
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:45,640
It's just been a fight.

853
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:49,280
So, I'm off, I'm the only one
who's off, I can't see no one.

854
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,000
I only walk onto a platform,
don't I?

855
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,360
It's full of Man United on the train.

856
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,520
'Oi, oi, get him on here.'
And someone said, 'No mate',

857
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,640
'No, officer, he's with us.
He's Man U!'

858
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:01,320
They go, 'You Man United?'
'No, I'm not!'

859
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,520
He's going,
'Get on that train, come on.'

860
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,360
They're trying to
pull me on the train.

861
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,480
I'm thinking no way
am I getting on that train.

862
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,320
So, I went across the road and
I bumped into a few of the boys,

863
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,800
and we worked out,
there was only eight of us left.

864
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,800
I think, no six of us left,
eight got nicked.

865
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:17,920
Massive court trial.

866
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,640
A lot of them all got 8's and
10's, yeah, got done for piracy.

867
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:25,560
I didn't get done on that one,
but I got done on the next one.

868
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,920
I think they probably
didn't do me on that one

869
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,520
because they'd already
built a case for me,

870
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:32,680
and I think it would've
jeopardised what they was

871
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,720
trying to get me for which
was the bigger... I say the bigger,

872
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,000
but they got 10 years, how much
bigger do you want it to be?

873
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,840
But them boys who got the 10
ended up on my trial, as well.

874
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,080
Yeah. So yeah, that
was the old famous ferry.

875
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:56,080
It was the January,
around about January '87.

876
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:57,920
I remember going to Arsenal

877
00:42:58,280 --> 00:42:59,800
and I remember
getting to the station,

878
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,360
there was all the Arsenal around
and the coppers singled...

879
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,760
they don't usually
single me out, they do,

880
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:08,960
but not the away old bill,
if that makes sense.

881
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,960
The local old bill used
to whack us every week,

882
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,200
I didn't mind that.

883
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,920
And they've got hold of me
and the copper said something

884
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,720
to me,
really always stuck in my mind.

885
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,760
He went to me;
'We'll see you on Monday.'

886
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,360
Always stuck in my mind,
'See you on Monday.'

887
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:24,440
Didn't think nothing of it,
went off home.

888
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,320
Monday morning, boom,
door went through,

889
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,440
6 in the morning.

890
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,840
ITN NEWS: Operation Full Time
was the result of detailed

891
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,800
surveillance by special cameras,

892
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,440
undercover and uniformed
officers on so-called ringleaders.

893
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,320
There'd been a big clamp down

894
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:41,440
and by then, everyone knew

895
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,200
the football situation and
names and ICF and all that

896
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,520
and to show they'd got the
right people, certain people,

897
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,880
me, Bill, Andy ended up in court

898
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,800
and we knew we was in shit

899
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,720
because the year before,
they'd done the Chelsea lot

900
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,000
and gave 'em 10 years and
they wanted the same for us.

901
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,400
We'd had an
infiltration by police.

902
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:03,920
We was the next big trot.

903
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,600
So, they done us and at
the same day they done us,

904
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:07,840
they done Millwall.

905
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,280
It's quite funny,
say they done Millwall,

906
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,360
it was six clowns.

907
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,960
And I say six clowns because
they were proper clowns,

908
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,200
they weren't Millwall...
They might be Millwall.

909
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,000
But they weren't Millwall.

910
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,480
It's quite mad because
we go... we get put up;

911
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:25,840
we get banged up in prison.

912
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,400
I was with Cass. I was banged
up with Cass. Bill was there.

913
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,960
ITN NEWS: Those arrested
are being charged tonight

914
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,120
with conspiracy
to cause affrays.

915
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,920
For such offences, there
are no limits to the penalties.

916
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,320
I don't have a
police record as an adult.

917
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,560
Done a few naughty things
when I was a kid,

918
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,560
but I've got no
police record as an adult.

919
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,480
And that's what comes
as the biggest shock

920
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,040
for me when I was arrested.

921
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,360
I mean, I don't mind saying
I had a nervous breakdown

922
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,080
because it shocked me.

923
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:54,720
I had my dad dying.

924
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,400
I had a broken leg, my second
one in a year playing football

925
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,440
and it just all come on top of me
and I couldn't handle it.

926
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,880
You know what I mean?
And don't mind admitting it.

927
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,560
I knew how
serious the trial was,

928
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,400
1) because the Chelsea
fan had already got 10 years,

929
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,280
2) my name for football violence
was well known to the old bill.

930
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,520
In fact, it's gone on record
that I was the first football fan

931
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:22,000
to be given a lengthy jail
sentence way back in the '70s.

932
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,960
So I knew how
serious it was for me,

933
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,040
but my one saving grace
was I'd been long retired then

934
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,320
and stopped going to football.

935
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,440
And when I did, it was
only used to use the pubs

936
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,560
to play cards and then
wouldn't go in the match.

937
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:38,800
We ended up on trial six and
a half months, I think it was,

938
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,800
six and a half months.
It was a complete fit-up.

939
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,280
And to prove how
political it was,

940
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,440
Andy was down as a market trader

941
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,960
and he was on £100,000 bail.
Right?

942
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,440
The only people on £100,000
bail was the highest criminals

943
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,800
in the land at the time,
was Brink's-Mat.

944
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:56,200
They were on the same.

945
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,360
So going to football,
you know what I mean?

946
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,560
Football fans?
Tell me it's not political.

947
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:03,800
I think that we'd
found out down the line

948
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,400
that a lot of the officers had
been involved in grassing

949
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,400
and cutting up someone in...

950
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,560
Bethnal Green way,
Stepney Green,

951
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,680
and we got the information of it

952
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,880
and then we kept asking
for testing.

953
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,520
We could see it was a fit up.

954
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,400
You could see that he would
wrote yours and you wrote yours

955
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:24,720
and it was a complete fit-up.

956
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:25,840
Somebody comes up;

957
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,640
'I wasn't even there.
I wasn't even in the country.'

958
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:29,440
So everyone knew
I was never involved.

959
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,680
I couldn't see how...
I knew it was a fit up,

960
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,400
but I couldn't see
how they was doing it.

961
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,080
I knew why I was in the frame
because I knew it's political

962
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,760
and they wanted to show
they could nick any fans,

963
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:43,360
but they wanted names to
show to the press and the media,

964
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,200
they're getting
their house in order.

965
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,200
I was 14, Cass was 14,

966
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,920
coming down the line,
it would've been 10s.

967
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,160
There was... probably the
lowest sentence on that day

968
00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:55,520
would've been 14 years for
football, for things I ain't done?

969
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,240
Crikey! Anyway, they did this
thing called enzyme testing.

970
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,680
They put this charcoal
in it and they shake it

971
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:02,880
a million miles an hour.

972
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,680
And if somebody's written into
something on the page above it,

973
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:07,880
it comes through.

974
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:09,080
So they'd added it.

975
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,880
There was no
evidence that to add it,

976
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,800
to make it look
like we was guilty.

977
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,400
What I didn't realise with
enzyme testing,

978
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,800
it's the form of lead
pencil I suppose,

979
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,640
in a way it's like tracing
and you get it and you shake.

980
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:26,000
What we noticed with the
evidence, there was gaps,

981
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,440
and the writing was different.

982
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,400
So, if I was writing,
me or you would write,

983
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,720
if you was writing your scripts,
you'd have a free flow

984
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,680
of how you'd write,
you wouldn't write, gap,

985
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,960
write and then come back

986
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:42,080
and then let's say November,
imprinted in November

987
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,320
would've been, it's got
to be the right way round.

988
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,160
So, November would have
December, printed in November.

989
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:51,680
Well, November should be filed.

990
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,800
Yeah? So how can you have
December's notes

991
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,240
across your recollection,

992
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,080
it's physically impossible.
Yeah?

993
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,360
So, they found that they'd been
falsifying, putting the words

994
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,040
in the names who was there.

995
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400
And when they was coming
back from late games,

996
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,400
one was doing it and
they was doctoring all of them.

997
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:15,400
We come in one day,
because we had to get locked up

998
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,520
every morning and
every night before...

999
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,960
we had to let the jury go
before they let us out.

1000
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:21,440
And went in the morning,

1001
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,720
didn't lock us up,
didn't lock us up.

1002
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,840
I said, 'Something's
not right here,

1003
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,080
they must have the
results of the enzyme.'

1004
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:29,960
They said, 'Would you come out?'

1005
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:31,840
We come out,
they said, 'You're free.'

1006
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,120
Police were lying.
Case collapsed.

1007
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,320
After our trial, which
we was the pioneers of it,

1008
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,280
all the miscarriage of
justice cases over that decade

1009
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:50,720
were all back on.

1010
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,040
Every famous case
you can think of

1011
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,520
you knew didn't
sit right with you,

1012
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,160
they'd all had the
retrials and the appeals,

1013
00:48:58,240 --> 00:48:59,840
all the appeals are exhausted

1014
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,560
because you can't find
new evidence as time goes on,

1015
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,200
evidence gets worse, don't it?

1016
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,120
People's memories, everything.
So they're not going nowhere.

1017
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,480
Through the ESDA, these
cases got a conclusion,

1018
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,480
they could reopen them
because they examined evidence

1019
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,720
that was there and proved
it had been tampered with

1020
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,080
and fitted up in
like they did in our case.

1021
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,160
ITN NEWS: Tonight the men
were out celebrating

1022
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:24,000
in their local pub, toasting
the end of a 14 month ordeal.

1023
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,160
What do they think
of the court's decision

1024
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:28,400
that some evidence
had been falsified?

1025
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,000
Falsify? It's total lies
because what had happened,

1026
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,040
right, they sent out thugs

1027
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:36,160
to get thugs

1028
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:37,920
and when they find
there's no thugs performing

1029
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,960
over football matches,
they decided anybody would do.

1030
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,120
As far as the police,
I'd like to see them prosecuted.

1031
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,760
If not, take it further
as far as we can take it

1032
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,480
to prove our innocence
so that everybody knows

1033
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,480
and hopefully
compensation our way.

1034
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,880
And it'll take many, many
years to restore the police

1035
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,200
like we've got going on
there today with the Met

1036
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:58,560
to restore their reputation.

1037
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,960
So they held their
hands up and these cases

1038
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,960
over the next five years
after our trial collapsed

1039
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,600
all happened on the
back of the football thing.

1040
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,120
But they never
talk about our case.

1041
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,320
The football case is a result of
that because it's a taboo word.

1042
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,000
You can't mention
football hooligans.

1043
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,600
No one ever really
sees about...

1044
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,840
when they interview
people like us

1045
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,360
it's how we're perceived is

1046
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,200
we don't care what the
government thinks about us,

1047
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:30,320
society, politicians,
whoever you are, laws,

1048
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,560
whether you are the
monarchy, whoever.

1049
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,760
We care about what we
think about each other,

1050
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,000
that is from the heart.

1051
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:42,040
What we think about each other,
that's what makes us tick.

1052
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,280
And if the rest of the world
don't like us, well so be it.

1053
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,600
Well as you know, West Ham's
firm probably had an influence

1054
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,640
on lots of other firms
in different countries

1055
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:58,200
around the world over the years.

1056
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,280
But, probably,
our only friendship

1057
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,040
that is worth talking
about is with Lazio.

1058
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,320
They're very close to us,
similar sort of people

1059
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,720
and they've become
very good friends.

1060
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,360
So as I say, there's
only really for us,

1061
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,640
other people might say they've
been to Milan and whatever,

1062
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:16,200
but for us as a firm
and West Ham, Lazio.

1063
00:51:29,720 --> 00:51:33,600
So I get to travel abroad and
meet other fans by invitation

1064
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,080
to see what it is for them,
particularly the Ultras.

1065
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:38,400
We did Spain and Italy, yeah,

1066
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,440
and I always find it
interesting because

1067
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,520
there is political influence.

1068
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,560
The ICF is pretty unique
because it started off

1069
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,600
this whole organised
mob culture basically.

1070
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,000
The one name that
you always think of that

1071
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,480
when it comes to the ICF

1072
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:57,920
is Andy Swallow

1073
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,280
because he was kind of
the figurehead for this

1074
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,640
and he was the one who was...

1075
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,440
whose name was so well
known, not just in London

1076
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,000
but in England and beyond,
into the rest of the UK,

1077
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,880
and into Europe as well.

1078
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,800
1, 2, 3.

1079
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:26,680
Hey, you!

1080
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:32,440
How you been?

1081
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:33,520
Yeah, not bad.

1082
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,040
Yeah, I'm really good, you?

1083
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:40,960
Good.

1084
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:43,640
That's good!

1085
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:45,840
All the new places, now.

1086
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:46,760
The new places, yeah.

1087
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:48,360
Fuckin' brilliant,
that looks brilliant, don't it?

1088
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,680
[Andy & The Lazio
Ultras greet each other]

1089
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,680
If someone like...

1090
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,560
people, members of Inter-City
Firm come to you, to...

1091
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,040
to talk about friendship,
a relationship

1092
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,000
is going to be proud

1093
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,720
because we are not
talking about a normal firm.

1094
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,120
We are talking about one of the
most important firm in England.

1095
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,520
Probably...

1096
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:21,480
In the world, also.

1097
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,800
In this world.

1098
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:24,800
I mean...

1099
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,080
So first of all,

1100
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,120
I mean, it's not the first
firm came and say,

1101
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,800
'Okay, we can be friends.'

1102
00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,200
It was Inter-City Firm.

1103
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,520
So of course it's normal

1104
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,040
that you want to talk with them.

1105
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,000
You want to understand if
you have something

1106
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,280
in common.

1107
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:56,800
And then we knew each other,
we had a great time together.

1108
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:57,920
Yes!

1109
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:00,680
The English style in our group?

1110
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:01,720
Yeah, very.

1111
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:06,480
Because, when in the stadium
during the years, 80 years,

1112
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,040
many fans in the stadium
were folkloristic.

1113
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:18,360
We decide to take the English
style, Lazio, and Verona too.

1114
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:22,040
Inter start too
with the English style.

1115
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:22,960
Yeah.

1116
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:28,160
And it's one of the reasons
that we are very close now.

1117
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:32,000
And I think in your mindset,
and the way you are,

1118
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,360
you're very...

1119
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,120
very West Ham, very English.

1120
00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:36,920
Lazio and Verona.

1121
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:39,360
Yeah.

1122
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,680
The first was Verona.

1123
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,280
Verona the first, yeah.

1124
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:44,440
Was Verona.

1125
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,360
And then Lazio.

1126
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:48,440
So it's very early.

1127
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:49,640
The English style.

1128
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:50,880
In the 80 years,

1129
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:55,360
many Ultras also are very
folkloristic in many stadiums

1130
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,600
above all in the south
of Italy, but not only.

1131
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,880
I would like just to talk,
just also...

1132
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:07,280
to another point

1133
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:12,280
because this is just
because we want to say

1134
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,160
how good and how beautiful
is this friendship.

1135
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,880
So this relationship grow up

1136
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,440
and now is going to

1137
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,000
be a real friendship.

1138
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,960
I mean, we are really friends.

1139
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,400
We are not just friends
for Lazio or West Ham.

1140
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,640
And I said that before,
we're not just football friends,

1141
00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:34,080
I've said that before
because I've probably not

1142
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,840
been for two years,

1143
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,920
but if I see you and you,
it's like I'm not...

1144
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,600
'I saw you last week.'

1145
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,280
You know,
and to see them all getting...

1146
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:45,720
Like this one, getting older.

1147
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:47,600
I'm getting older!

1148
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,520
He's always young, this one.

1149
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:50,640
That's brilliant.

1150
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:54,720
In East London, we are pretty
much in our side of London.

1151
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,840
We're lucky in London

1152
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,880
as such
as East London is West Ham.

1153
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:02,280
North London, there's two.

1154
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,600
So, we can be proud to be of us.

1155
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,120
But in London
we're not the biggest,

1156
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:08,040
well I'm going to say,

1157
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,000
I'll get slaughtered in fact,
we are the biggest!

1158
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:11,040
We're massive.

1159
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:13,800
Gotta watch what I say!

1160
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:15,440
We're massive.

1161
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:17,360
You are massive!

1162
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,760
You understand what we're saying.
Don't wanna get in trouble.

1163
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,400
We'll move on from that one.

1164
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,080
You know why, because
many people make mistake

1165
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:27,040
that Rome,
because the name of the other

1166
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,520
is Rome, Roma.

1167
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:30,520
So...

1168
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,280
They automatically think Rome.

1169
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,280
Is the first team of Rome,
but it's not like that.

1170
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:35,200
No, it's not.

1171
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,360
So, because also for
the colours, Lazio choose.

1172
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,640
That's why they start
with many sports.

1173
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:44,040
The colour of Greece, because...

1174
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:45,200
The Olympic games.

1175
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,360
Where they started,
Olympic games.

1176
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,200
So, the colours from there.

1177
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,320
The eagle is the symbol of Rome.

1178
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,200
The colours are from Greece.

1179
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,200
And this is why Lazio
have this kind of

1180
00:56:58,280 --> 00:56:59,680
component on the symbol.

1181
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:04,360
In our story, we like
to go against whole.

1182
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,080
We are less, because
it's easy to be...

1183
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,600
'I'm fan of Roma
because every immigrants.'

1184
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,760
Anyone can be Roma.

1185
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,880
'Every people arrive here,
we name Roma, Roma.'

1186
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:17,280
It's easier, okay?

1187
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,960
For us, it's a sense of proud
to go against whole.

1188
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:26,680
And this thing made us stronger
than the other part of Rome.

1189
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,360
OK? It's in our...

1190
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,760
It's the same as West Ham,
we were always the underdogs.

1191
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,920
And made it,
and now Lazio firm

1192
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,040
is known in all the world.

1193
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,720
Yeah, everybody.

1194
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,480
Because we made...

1195
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:46,600
we made troubles everywhere!

1196
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,240
In Rome and everywhere,
because we have

1197
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,360
a political way of mind,
way of living.

1198
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,000
And all the people
that are part of...

1199
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,120
all right people in Europe

1200
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,200
want to be close with us,
for our way of living,

1201
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,240
for our way of fighting,

1202
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,320
for our mind,
and for us is a sense of pride.

1203
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:11,720
Of course. No...

1204
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:13,640
The best thing with...

1205
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:19,120
If this happen,
we made the good things.

1206
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:20,280
I've seen it.

1207
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,080
Andy, it's simple.

1208
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,760
I think... we think,
that it's very simple

1209
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,080
that to be a supporter of Lazio
is a choice.

1210
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:30,120
Yes.

1211
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:34,520
It's a choice. You have to make
your choice in your life.

1212
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:38,680
Because when you grow up
in school, you are alone.

1213
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,280
It's strange, when...
like, I'm 63.

1214
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,440
And I come from East London,

1215
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,600
and I know you say
you have a choice,

1216
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,680
but your choice is
made for you from birth.

1217
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:54,040
My family were West Ham.
So, I had no choice.

1218
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,160
I had no Man United
shirt put on me.

1219
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:57,760
I would've been slapped.

1220
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,800
So, from us... your
children will be Lazio,

1221
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,680
my children are West Ham.

1222
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,080
So, I know what
you say as a choice,

1223
00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:08,640
but the choice is - no choice.

1224
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:10,240
You are West Ham!

1225
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,680
That's the choice,
the choice is no choice.

1226
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:13,720
No choice.

1227
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,000
You have no choice. My Danny?
West Ham.

1228
00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:17,400
Beau? West Ham.

1229
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:18,840
Your family? West Ham.

1230
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,680
The choice was made for us.

1231
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,960
The choice is easy for...

1232
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:26,440
My daughter, is there, she said,
'I like a guy.

1233
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,400
He is a Roma fan.' No!

1234
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,800
Not in my house,
not in my house,

1235
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:35,040
No!

1236
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,080
We prefer Lazio.

1237
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:38,920
Choose another...

1238
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,000
Choose again!

1239
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,160
I like that!

1240
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,080
I've come back now for...
probably been two years maybe

1241
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,520
since I've been to Rome maybe.

1242
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,200
And I now notice, and if
you don't mind me saying,

1243
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,720
there's a lovely sign up there
that says Ultras Lazio.

1244
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,760
And I've seen from the
picture coming in, now

1245
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,080
you have the banner with
Ultras Lazio, a name change.

1246
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,200
A few things have
changed over a period,

1247
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,160
which you know we know.

1248
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:10,880
And why have you changed?

1249
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:13,160
We are forever Irriducibili.

1250
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:15,200
Irriducibili is...

1251
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:17,160
Is in your heart, I understand.

1252
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,320
It's in our mind.
It's in our soul.

1253
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:20,600
Yes, I understand.

1254
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,200
But for this time,
in these times,

1255
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,840
we decided to give to the story

1256
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,320
the name 'Irriducibili'.

1257
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,520
Irriducibili now is the legend.

1258
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,080
Okay?
And we started, we restarted.

1259
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,360
We decide to give to the
legend the name Irriducibili.

1260
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,040
But all of us are Irriducibili.

1261
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:40,600
Irriducibili never die.

1262
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,760
But if you see, everything
is about Irriducibili.

1263
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,840
This is part of the stadium,
the banner inside the stadium.

1264
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,800
When we have the name
Irriducibili,

1265
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:52,520
when we have the name
Irriducibili.

1266
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:53,720
Irriducibili never die.

1267
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,840
But now we are Ultras Lazio.

1268
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,000
Yes. Okay, that's brilliant.

1269
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,480
And it's like, in England,

1270
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,560
when we was going,
we was hooligans,

1271
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,400
we was West Ham
hooligans and Ultras...

1272
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:13,440
lots of people don't understand
the word Ultra is a way of life.

1273
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:14,600
Yeah.

1274
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:16,880
And is that the meaning
of the word of Ultra?

1275
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:19,680
Because a lot of people in
England don't understand

1276
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,040
what an Ultra is.

1277
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,240
It's...
Is it a way of life? Is it...

1278
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:28,600
It's a way of life. It's not
just in the stadium atmosphere.

1279
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:33,560
In the way you live the life
extremely - in everything.

1280
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,440
And to be...

1281
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,400
with a lot of courage, you know?

1282
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,880
And you beat life like that.

1283
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,040
Yeah, yeah.

1284
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:47,560
And it is strange because
if we went around in England

1285
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,160
and said we was hooligans,

1286
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:51,520
people look at us and they think
we want to fight.

1287
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,800
But Ultras is not
necessarily mean the fighting.

1288
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:54,920
It means togetherness.

1289
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,880
Roll onto the acid house scene.

1290
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,520
I suppose I'd come
out the football trial.

1291
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,520
I'd spent quite a few years
out of football on trial

1292
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,760
and acid house
had arrived, '87, '88.

1293
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,560
So here we are,
1988 I went to...

1294
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:13,800
it was one of our
mate's stag-dos

1295
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:15,720
just before that for
about two or three months

1296
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,480
I see a few of our lot Gus,
Chrissy, Danny come back

1297
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,360
and I see a change
in them, a smiley face.

1298
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,680
I know it seems mad,
you know, the little bandanas

1299
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:27,280
or a smiley face t-shirt.

1300
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,800
I was thinking 'Oh, what are
these idiots? What are these?'

1301
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,160
And 'Come on,
we're all going to Future'

1302
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,680
on a Tuesday night
and then we go in the club

1303
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:36,760
and someone said, 'Oh,
you've got to have one of these'

1304
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,520
and the next minute,
I took an ecstasy tablet

1305
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:43,800
and I see music and clubbing
in a totally different world,

1306
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,360
and I never looked back,
I suppose

1307
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:46,920
and been involved in the scene.

1308
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:51,200
And he said,
this is a new scene

1309
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,720
and he's trying to tell me
about this rave scene.

1310
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,200
And the lads amongst us
were kind of dismissive with it,

1311
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,920
you know what I mean? It sounded
like the firm's going soft

1312
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:02,080
and people actually
said that behind his back,

1313
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,560
you know what I mean?
I was doing security for Andy,

1314
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:06,280
and it was just me

1315
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,520
and it was over at
East Ham, and he said

1316
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,000
him and his mate said,
'Cass, need a word with you.'

1317
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:17,920
I said, 'Yeah, what's happening?
What do you want?'

1318
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:23,320
He said, 'We've got maybe
50 to 100 Millwall coming over.'

1319
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,760
I said 'What? East Ham?'
he said, No.'

1320
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,160
He said 'During the week we
was over the Dunham Tavern,

1321
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:32,840
about 20 of us and they
treated us with utmost respect.'

1322
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:35,160
And they said we've
got to return the favour.

1323
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,800
He said, 'So we've
invited them to our rave.'

1324
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:43,080
'Are you sure? You're telling
me Millwall's coming here,

1325
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:45,360
East Ham and you ain't told
me earlier, we ain't prepared?

1326
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,600
Let me get on the phone
and call a few people.'

1327
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:49,840
He said, 'No, no Cass,
we knew you'd go like that.

1328
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:51,760
This is what we're
trying to tell you.'

1329
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,200
Basically he's telling me
I'm old guard,

1330
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:58,720
he's the new kid on the
block in tune with everything.

1331
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,120
I'm old hat. I'm just
there for security.

1332
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,080
Don't say nothing,
don't do nothing.

1333
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,440
So, we had a little bit of a
disagreement over it,

1334
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,000
in the end, I said,
'Well it's your show, alright.'

1335
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,520
And I said, 'You're telling
me don't put in a call,

1336
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,440
alright, it's down to
you two if anything...'

1337
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,320
'Trust me, Cass,
nothing will happen.'

1338
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,120
I thought, alright, we're on.

1339
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:22,720
We've got a personal bet here.

1340
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,640
And they come in and
give me a little look,

1341
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,400
walk past me one by one.

1342
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,200
Yeah, they give a little
look like... you know?

1343
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:30,800
All walked in, and I thought

1344
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:33,440
'This is going to go tits up.'
And it's on you.

1345
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,880
They kept coming up to me,
having a good time

1346
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:37,400
and they weren't no trouble.

1347
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,160
I looked, I said,
'What's going on here, Andy?'

1348
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,400
I said 'You're onto
something here ain't ya?'

1349
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:46,040
I've never seen this.
That was their firm.

1350
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,640
He said, 'Cass, liven up,
liven up. It's all changed now.'

1351
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,200
He's already on the next move.

1352
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:52,640
It broke a lot of barriers.

1353
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,720
The rave scene broke
a lot of barriers racially

1354
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:57,960
and especially
the football terraces

1355
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:01,160
where you now could
put Millwall and West Ham

1356
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,720
in the same room,
or Arsenal, Chelsea,

1357
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,360
everybody was there for
the music and the drugs

1358
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:08,520
and everything else
and what was going on.

1359
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,160
[Rave music]

1360
01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:18,160
You know, the rave scene and
the fact that you could have

1361
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:22,440
20,000 kids dancing in a field
somewhere in the home counties

1362
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:26,600
and there's not a lot that
the police or the military

1363
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,880
or anything the establishment
can do about that.

1364
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,000
If you can do that
within an hour basically,

1365
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,560
if you have that reach,

1366
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,040
I think the whole power

1367
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,680
of that house music scene,
that whole collective power

1368
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,280
was very worrying
to the establishment.

1369
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:49,280
And I dunno if that has sort of
added appeal or added bonus,

1370
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,320
but I think that the
worthwhile things to do in life

1371
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,360
are things that involve
upsetting the establishment.

1372
01:07:56,720 --> 01:07:59,280
By '89 I was
working in Stratford

1373
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,360
on the Stratford &
Newham Express.

1374
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:06,240
During '88 and '89,
I got kind of embroiled

1375
01:08:06,320 --> 01:08:10,240
in the acid house
scenario, shall we say,

1376
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:16,400
and had started going clubbing
a lot, mainly kind of West End,

1377
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,240
every now and then,
some kind of moody rave

1378
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:22,560
somewhere in the East End.

1379
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:27,160
It's almost become
cliché to say that

1380
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,240
acid house ended
football hooliganism,

1381
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,480
but it kind of felt
like that at the time.

1382
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,400
And yeah, there were
probably more complex reasons

1383
01:08:37,480 --> 01:08:39,640
than that for what was happening
at the time,

1384
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,000
but it's hard to explain

1385
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,800
how things seemed
to change almost overnight.

1386
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,760
And it grew so quick.

1387
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,000
It was so quick and
there was no boundaries,

1388
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,680
it was like there was
no football.

1389
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:55,880
For the first time,
it was party, music,

1390
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,320
it broke down the football.

1391
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,040
Eventually it kicked back
when the house scene

1392
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,120
sort of evolved to clubs
and the football thing came back.

1393
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:06,360
I'm not saying that the
football rivalry didn't happen,

1394
01:09:06,440 --> 01:09:09,720
just I wasn't involved in it.
I was at parties.

1395
01:09:10,440 --> 01:09:13,560
My name's Terry Stone. I'm
an actor and a film producer.

1396
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,560
Lots of people will know me
with a dodgy syrup

1397
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,600
playing Tony Tucker in
Rise Of The Footsoldier

1398
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,960
or Jack Spot in Once
Upon A Time In London.

1399
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:24,720
But I've been in obviously
a host of crime films.

1400
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:26,480
I've produced a
host of crime films

1401
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:30,520
and before I become
Terry Stone,

1402
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:32,080
I was called Terry Turbo

1403
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:37,640
and, you know, I sort of run most
of the big dance music events

1404
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,600
back in the day from the
early nineties with One Nation,

1405
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:46,120
which was a drum and bass event,
jungle event, to Garage Nation,

1406
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,600
which was obviously a UK garage
that then went into grime event.

1407
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,240
We lived on a council
estate in Camberley in Surrey,

1408
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:55,760
and we'd all go down
into the High Street,

1409
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,240
there was a pub
called the Brown Jug,

1410
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:00,600
and the landlord of that pub

1411
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:02,800
was friends
with Andy Swallow.

1412
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,120
Andy was doing,
I think it was in Bow,

1413
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:06,960
there was like a flyover,

1414
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,840
so it was some sort of weird
club that was under the flyover

1415
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,080
and he said we're going
to Bow in East London,

1416
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,400
my mate Andy Swallow,
and he obviously mentioned

1417
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:17,800
the Inter-City Firm and so on,
and they're doing raves.

1418
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:19,480
And we went to this rave,

1419
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:23,200
I met Jimmy Labello,
as he's called

1420
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:24,720
on the night,

1421
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,360
and that was my first sort of
taste of the rave scene.

1422
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:31,840
Echoes was kind of right
next to the Bow flyover,

1423
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:33,080
tucked away almost.

1424
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,640
We still drive past it
every now and then

1425
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:35,840
just for old time's sake

1426
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,720
and it was very much...

1427
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:42,240
it was a nice venue,

1428
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,320
but it was what I'd call
at the time an ultra-disco.

1429
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,280
It was very flash

1430
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,440
and in 1988,
what essentially had happened

1431
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:56,120
is those clubs almost
became redundant overnight

1432
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,120
because no one wanted to
go somewhere

1433
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:00,200
that was flash-looking.

1434
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:01,720
There was a lovely club built,

1435
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:04,440
you've got to think now,
acid house has taken over.

1436
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:07,960
The discos, dancing,
the girls dancing around

1437
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:10,640
with their white handbags
and their white shoes are gone.

1438
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,040
Girls dancing, looking... that
had gone in the club scene.

1439
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,280
You've got all these lovely clubs
with these lovely disco lights

1440
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:19,280
empty, didn't know what to do.

1441
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,520
So, Echoes up the road, they
started doing a Friday night.

1442
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:25,200
I think we shut at two o'clock
I believe, which is late for...

1443
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,120
And they smashed it.

1444
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:28,360
It was packed.

1445
01:11:28,440 --> 01:11:30,120
[Rave music]

1446
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:35,560
My name's Keith Mac.
I'm a DJ, record producer

1447
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,000
and all-round fun guy.

1448
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,360
I started off DJing at a pub in
Dagenham called the Fiddlers.

1449
01:11:46,480 --> 01:11:48,600
I was only like...
Well I was 15.

1450
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,920
We used to be able to get
in there, it was like the only pub.

1451
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,680
My mates used to hassle
the manager, 'Let Keith...'

1452
01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,440
Because I always
had a pack of records,

1453
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,840
they used to have a Friday night
thing there and it was rubbish.

1454
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:04,480
So, all my mates
bullied the manager,

1455
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,040
and they gave me
a Wednesday night.

1456
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:07,960
Obviously, Andy was doing
all the warehouse parties,

1457
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,760
I didn't know Andy at the time,
and then he come down

1458
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:14,480
one Wednesday and said,
'Look, we've got this new club,

1459
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,160
do you want to jump on board?'

1460
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,240
And that was Echoes
on the first night.

1461
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,200
So that Friday he picked
me up and that was it.

1462
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:23,520
30 odd years later,
I'm still here.

1463
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,040
We started going to
Echoes on a Friday night

1464
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:32,280
because there was
one DJ, Tony Wilson,

1465
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:34,560
who we were all...

1466
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:36,680
me and a couple of mates,
were fans of

1467
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,640
and we started going
there regularly and kind of

1468
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,080
so pretty much
every Friday really,

1469
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:44,840
we knocked the West End
on the head for a while

1470
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:46,640
and we're doing that every Friday.

1471
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,080
And then I did a Saturday
night, Pasha's House

1472
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:51,200
about 800-900 because not
many people went on a Saturday,

1473
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,320
because there'd be raves
but they'd come to us,

1474
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,120
so Echoes on a Friday
night was the one.

1475
01:12:57,480 --> 01:12:59,680
Echoes would be
absolutely rammed.

1476
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:01,040
There'd be dry ice everywhere.

1477
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:02,680
You could hardly
see in front of you,

1478
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,360
there'd be sweat on the walls.

1479
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:06,760
The place would be
absolutely heaving.

1480
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,520
Right where I'm sitting
now was my first party.

1481
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,960
I'd say if I had to pinpoint it,
I reckon I would've been

1482
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:16,480
about 200 yards
over that way there.

1483
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,640
Broke into a warehouse,
got a bit of paper,

1484
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,160
and I still see this flyer now.

1485
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:27,400
You know the Bow flyover,
we drew a line, a bridge,

1486
01:13:27,480 --> 01:13:31,760
a line, little people in cars,
and a man with a stick

1487
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,600
with like a little smiley face
and that was our flyer.

1488
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:35,920
Acid house party this way.

1489
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,760
We had someone on
the corner guiding them in.

1490
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,880
We put something like 3000,
4000 in a warehouse down there

1491
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:46,880
from 10 o'clock at night till
11, 12 o'clock the next day.

1492
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,480
The acid house scene
was brilliant because

1493
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:51,640
you'd just have two lights,
a strobe and a smoke machine

1494
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:53,600
and a set of decks
and that was it.

1495
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,920
I think at the time,
that was the Wild West era

1496
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,240
of the rave scene,
where anything went.

1497
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,640
And I'm sure there was
probably some fisticuffs between

1498
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,640
promoters and aggravation,
but I sort of looked at

1499
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:11,440
what they were
doing and I loved it.

1500
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,360
People hang around
people and they go,

1501
01:14:13,440 --> 01:14:14,880
'I'm going to do this.'
And people go,

1502
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,560
'Yeah, you should have a go.'

1503
01:14:17,640 --> 01:14:20,400
And most people don't.
But I was the one that did.

1504
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,280
Couple of fellas
come up to us and said

1505
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,280
'Do you fancy doing
a radio station?'

1506
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:26,360
He said, 'Do you
know much about it?'

1507
01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:28,400
I said, 'I know you
turn it on and off.'

1508
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:30,960
And it's on a bandwidth.
That's about it.

1509
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,960
Started explaining, I said,
'Look...

1510
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:35,400
Don't explain.
How much is it going to cost?'

1511
01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:38,800
I think it was about
£1,000, £1,500 quid.

1512
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:43,040
And we set it up and we
had an all-dayer in Echoes,

1513
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:46,120
and this was on the 7th
or 8th of May '89 and I said,

1514
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:48,040
'Tell you what we'll do,
we'll do the all-dayer,

1515
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:49,080
we'll go off.'

1516
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:51,600
Which was now... while I'm
looking around me would be

1517
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,320
Stoke Newington just there.

1518
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,920
We had a flat and I said we'll
go and announce at the party

1519
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,560
at 8 o'clock,
we are coming on live

1520
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,200
and as you leave the party,
the all-dayer,

1521
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,640
which was at 10
I believe, tune your cars in.

1522
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,000
And from that it started,

1523
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:08,080
and that's how
Centreforce was launched.

1524
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:09,600
Centreforce? From day one.

1525
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,360
Day one, we was doing
an all-dayer at Echoes.

1526
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,320
I'd finished and
Andy said to me,

1527
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:16,720
'Come on, we're going to go,

1528
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:18,240
we're going to set up
a radio station.'

1529
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:19,920
I was like, 'I ain't got a clue.'

1530
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,280
He said,
'Come and jump in the car.'

1531
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:26,560
So, we drove to Shoreditch
behind the fire station.

1532
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:28,560
He said, 'Come, we'll go down.'
So, we went down there.

1533
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:30,440
'Bring some records.'
So, I brought some records

1534
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,320
and at the time,
it was in a little flat,

1535
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,600
little radio thing like that,
which would be monitors

1536
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,240
and it was just like,
alright, go on.

1537
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:41,320
I was like, 'I don't know, we're
testing it, just testing it.'

1538
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,040
And it literally was that,
and then that night

1539
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:48,160
after the party, that's more or less
when Centreforce began,

1540
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:51,200
you know, and that's when it
started - 24 hour.

1541
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:53,920
[MC live on radio]

1542
01:15:56,440 --> 01:16:01,680
My name's Eric. Psychedelic Eric,
and I MC and host on the radio.

1543
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:03,840
I'd met Andy, well,
I didn't actually meet him.

1544
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:05,960
He knocked on my door
when I was about eight,

1545
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,160
up to mischief
like he always was

1546
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,440
and sort of saw him
for the first time then.

1547
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,200
But he did go football
with my brother

1548
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:18,000
and all that West Ham
stuff a little later on.

1549
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:21,560
And I think that's where
I probably got the link

1550
01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:24,240
to get into Centreforce
from my brother Roger.

1551
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,640
Centreforce just sprung up
out of nowhere one morning

1552
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,160
and I was listening
and I was like,

1553
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:33,680
'What is this?'

1554
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:36,240
I made a couple of phone calls

1555
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,320
and the next thing I was talking
to that guy over there.

1556
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:44,560
[House music playing live]

1557
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:50,560
My name's Wayne Seaton,

1558
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,760
better known as DJ Seeker or Seeker.

1559
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:54,360
And I'm a DJ.

1560
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,000
I used to work for an
estate agents called Seekers

1561
01:16:57,080 --> 01:16:59,520
and yeah, that's
how I got my name.

1562
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,280
I just thought I'd be a little
bit different, and I went out

1563
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:04,560
and bought, instead of everybody
was using two turntables,

1564
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,760
went and bought three,
just a bit different

1565
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,280
and just a bedroom DJ.

1566
01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:13,480
And then there was
a couple of contacts

1567
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,520
in terms of how we ended
up going on Centreforce.

1568
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,320
I was with a little syndicate.

1569
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:19,640
'Corporation'.

1570
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:23,040
We was known as the Corporation
Boys or the Corporation.

1571
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:28,280
Corporation Dave, DJ Hugs,
MC Scotty, and myself,

1572
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:30,440
and we went to the station.

1573
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,560
I just thought to myself, wow,

1574
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,200
I've got an opportunity here.

1575
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:37,240
Went up and done a show,
never done anything like it.

1576
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:38,600
I thought, 'I love this.'

1577
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,200
And then I had the
opportunity and unfortunately

1578
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,760
the estate agents found out
because there was somebody

1579
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:47,320
who kind of grassed me up
in the office and told them

1580
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:51,440
what I'd done, and they gave me
the ultimatum: station or job?

1581
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,240
I didn't tell my mum at
first, but now she knows,

1582
01:17:57,440 --> 01:17:58,560
but I chose the station.

1583
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:00,560
I started music and that was it.

1584
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:01,840
There was no turning back.

1585
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,280
We actually started
out where I just told you.

1586
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,640
Dennison Point always
comes up as Dennison Point.

1587
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:10,720
We're literally facing
Dennison Point behind us.

1588
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:12,720
We were on a
six-month observation.

1589
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,240
So we thought we'd cracked it,
we thought we're untouchable

1590
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:18,600
24 hours,
and that's what we become.

1591
01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:20,440
No, we were on
a police observation.

1592
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,240
They wanted to see who
was coming in and out

1593
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:24,120
and observated us for 24

1594
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:25,800
and what they wanted
to do every now and then,

1595
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,040
they broke... because we know
because the court case.

1596
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:32,440
They raided our station to see
where we moved the equipment

1597
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,520
so they got us actually
moving the equipment.

1598
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:38,040
Hence the story of where
Seeker and them was with us.

1599
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:42,040
We was given an address
to go and put up for a new,

1600
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:45,360
basically to set up
a new studio.

1601
01:18:46,160 --> 01:18:51,160
So, we was given an address
and we went up to the door

1602
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,480
and listen, kind of thing,

1603
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:55,680
thought, right, okay,
then this must be it.

1604
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:58,480
And we've kicked the door,
kicked the door off,

1605
01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:02,160
and there's a
family eating dinner,

1606
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,880
and they were none too
pleased, but we were sort of...

1607
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:09,000
just looked at each other
and we was on our toes.

1608
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:10,320
She threw everything at us.

1609
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,440
She chased us down
front the gallery, she chased us...

1610
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,400
you know you're talking about
a typical East London woman;

1611
01:19:17,480 --> 01:19:19,640
she wasn't having it,
we'd ruined her Sunday lunch,

1612
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,480
she threw crockery at us
and everything chasing us

1613
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,680
all the way down,
that was in Dennison Point.

1614
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,200
[Live house music]

1615
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:31,440
My name's Danielle Montana.

1616
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:35,320
I'm a DJ producer and an
original DJ from Centreforce.

1617
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:36,920
I'd heard of Andy, yeah.

1618
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:39,000
At the time, who didn't?

1619
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:41,560
He was quite a
known individual. Yeah.

1620
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:45,480
My memory's got a bit
wavy as time has gone on,

1621
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,080
but we met because someone
saw me and my sister playing,

1622
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:52,400
and they invited us to the
radio station in its early days,

1623
01:19:52,480 --> 01:19:56,160
early weeks, they took us up to
the radio station, that was it.

1624
01:19:56,240 --> 01:19:59,000
We got a slot on the radio,
and we've been there ever since

1625
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,240
so yeah, that's Centreforce.

1626
01:20:02,440 --> 01:20:06,360
It's quite difficult to explain
how big Centreforce was.

1627
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:12,000
How it was going all the way
down to North West Kent,

1628
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:15,120
South East London and beyond,

1629
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:16,840
it seemed like
to the wilds of Essex,

1630
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:19,120
kind of everyone
seemed to be

1631
01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:21,600
tuned in to Centreforce.

1632
01:20:22,280 --> 01:20:26,040
Initially, there was
a certain amount of,

1633
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:30,240
we didn't really know where it
was coming from, who it was,

1634
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,560
but suddenly during '89,

1635
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,160
it seemed to be
absolutely everywhere

1636
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:40,120
and if it went off the air,

1637
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,240
even briefly,
even for a few hours,

1638
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,160
people would be phoning
each other up saying,

1639
01:20:46,240 --> 01:20:48,880
'What happened to Centreforce,
what are you listening to now?'

1640
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,000
And it had a massive
impact and it was the way

1641
01:20:52,080 --> 01:20:53,960
people would find out
what was going on,

1642
01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:57,400
even if something
was on or off that night

1643
01:20:57,480 --> 01:21:01,840
and various elements like
that so it was absolutely huge.

1644
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:03,760
Woodstock 30,000.

1645
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:06,720
We did three days in a field,
30-odd thousand people.

1646
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,240
We hit so many people's
lives in that short period

1647
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,800
that we didn't realise that
people were coming to London

1648
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,400
taking cassette tapes
up to Scotland.

1649
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:19,120
And if I talk to everybody now,
they listened to Centreforce Radio.

1650
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,160
I must've been the most
listened to radio station.

1651
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:23,560
We couldn't get no more
than five miles.

1652
01:21:23,640 --> 01:21:28,040
But it's a cult thing that
everybody at some point

1653
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:30,520
in that scene was
touched by Centreforce.

1654
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:33,560
Those days were great,
I have to say,

1655
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,960
even though we were
inflicted by the law,

1656
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,760
but we had a massive
following at the time.

1657
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:43,800
For at the time that we
were in the birth of house

1658
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,880
in this country, Centreforce
was definitely at the forefront.

1659
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:49,960
We were the first 24-hour
house music station,

1660
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:53,800
and it was pirate, so you
always looked over your shoulder

1661
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,720
it's not like carrying two sticks
and running from the old bill.

1662
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:00,080
It's carrying cases
of vinyl. You know?

1663
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:03,440
So yeah, I have to give
them a props for what they did.

1664
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:09,840
Can you remember
when we was doing a show

1665
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,960
and we got a call again
saying that

1666
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,560
someone's going to
come to the studio.

1667
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,240
We packed up all the gear,
put it in the lift,

1668
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:20,520
got it all in the car.

1669
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:23,040
We got an address
for a new studio.

1670
01:22:23,480 --> 01:22:27,240
We've gone to the new studio,
before we left the old one,

1671
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:31,760
we said, 'London, we'll be back
in about 10 minutes' didn't we?

1672
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,560
And within 15 minutes the studio
was packed away in the car.

1673
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,400
We was gone off
to the next address,

1674
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:40,240
we got to the next
address, set all the music up.

1675
01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:44,160
'Hello, London, how you doing?'
What did we do?

1676
01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:47,560
We went downstairs, to get
the last few bits out the car.

1677
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:50,360
There was a bobby on
the beat standing there,

1678
01:22:50,440 --> 01:22:51,440
'Hello.'

1679
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:53,880
'So, this is where
Centreforce is then.'

1680
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,400
Like that. We looked at
each other, didn't we?

1681
01:22:56,480 --> 01:22:58,480
Yeah, so...

1682
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:03,680
Yeah, they got to know us.
The thing is they got to know...

1683
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:06,600
Especially I used to
drive a distinctive vehicle

1684
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,520
because it was a Q Reg Fiesta.

1685
01:23:10,600 --> 01:23:13,640
So, I used to get pulled up
and they used to be like,

1686
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:16,000
'Hello, Seeker.' sort of thing.

1687
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:19,000
And I used to be like, my name's
not Seeker, my name's Seaton.

1688
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:21,440
And they'd be like,
'Well, your name's Seeker,

1689
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:23,680
and what's the
records in the back for?'

1690
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:25,640
Turned around, 'Told you
I'd gone round my mates.

1691
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:27,920
I was playing music.'
'No, no, no, no.'

1692
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,720
But they never ever,
caught or arrested

1693
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:32,680
in terms of that side.

1694
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:33,920
Near misses.

1695
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:35,960
Yeah, no it was good times,
good times there.

1696
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,040
And then obviously
when the police...

1697
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:40,760
shut it down, it was shut down.

1698
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:45,000
The government wanted
to clamp down again, so...

1699
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:50,240
our boys had to... so all of
a sudden Seeker was the one,

1700
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,040
Seeker was the next DJ on,
as he's gone to go to the studio,

1701
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:56,600
he's listening in the car,
that's how you...

1702
01:23:56,920 --> 01:24:00,640
and Hill Street Blues come on
and the DTI come on,

1703
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,720
and said, 'All you
Centreforce listeners,

1704
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:04,280
this is the last time...

1705
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,280
This is the last record
from Centreforce,'

1706
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,520
and they played
Hill Street Blues, cheeky gits,

1707
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:11,760
and they played that
and they shut us down,

1708
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:14,280
took all our equipment
and then we all got arrested.

1709
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:16,120
I was arrested at
the Pink Toothbrush.

1710
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:20,160
I come out three days later,
I went to a block of flats

1711
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,960
and came on and put the
Dixon of Dock Green on

1712
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:24,480
and said we're back.

1713
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:26,400
And that didn't go down well.

1714
01:24:26,520 --> 01:24:28,800
And then they just
come down again,

1715
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:30,600
they ripped our
station down again

1716
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:32,520
and after about the 5th
attempt we just thought,

1717
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:34,160
we can't go nowhere.

1718
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,320
So, all that hard work
to be kicked back

1719
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:40,240
and now, which is weird
when I do this...

1720
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,520
It's quite sentimental
because when I look at it,

1721
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:45,400
I think we left such an impact.

1722
01:24:45,480 --> 01:24:47,760
What could we have done
if they'd left us alone?

1723
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:49,600
We might have been dead now,

1724
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,640
we might not have
been a radio station.

1725
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:57,160
But we had the same
again, which is sad.

1726
01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:02,360
I might just say it;
They can't do me anymore.

1727
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,360
The government,
the bodies above

1728
01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:07,760
just never wanted us
to do anything. That's it.

1729
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:16,440
You know, the funny thing
about the Tory government

1730
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:20,360
of the time
being so anti-acid house

1731
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,800
is that in some respects

1732
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,720
it was kind of quite Thatcherite

1733
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,760
in its celebration of
entrepreneurial characters

1734
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:35,360
and individuals who managed
to essentially do

1735
01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:37,520
what Thatcher
had been telling them,

1736
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:39,440
and the Tories had
been telling them to do,

1737
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:41,920
which was to get off their
arse, go and do something,

1738
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:46,320
go set up your own business
and make a success of it

1739
01:25:46,400 --> 01:25:47,920
and that's what
these people did.

1740
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:50,720
Yeah, I think when you come
from a working class background,

1741
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:55,320
you move into any
kind of activity,

1742
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:58,400
any industry like
the music industry,

1743
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:05,080
they are businesses and
they have a kind of hierarchy

1744
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,960
and expectation of how you
behave and how you negotiate.

1745
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,560
They don't really like
people making their own rules

1746
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:14,120
and doing it in their terms.

1747
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:18,200
So it is a very difficult
environment to break into.

1748
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:22,440
I think Britain's a very
class dominated society

1749
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:27,960
and it is run by a certain
class of people who

1750
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:31,160
went to certain schools and
have these connections

1751
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:33,320
and have the wealth and
money behind them

1752
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:37,000
that makes the
consequences of their failure

1753
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:39,360
less drastic than it
does for someone

1754
01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:41,080
from a working class background.

1755
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:46,360
So it is a whole different
thing to break into that

1756
01:26:46,440 --> 01:26:49,960
when you don't come from
that kind of elite background.

1757
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,680
'What about making a
record? We could do this.'

1758
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:55,680
And we went off to a studio
and we made a record.

1759
01:26:55,880 --> 01:26:57,640
And from that I ended up

1760
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:00,960
meeting Jimmy Low
and we ended up...

1761
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:02,960
they a massive track
called Made In Two Minutes.

1762
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:07,000
I had a group which was with
Danny's mum and Keith Mac,

1763
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:08,360
and we was New Class A.

1764
01:27:08,440 --> 01:27:12,520
We PA'd with The Prodigy,
Shades Of Rhythm, M People.

1765
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,040
We was all on the scene together
and I set up a record label.

1766
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,560
Put out 56 records
in the first year,

1767
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:21,000
which just over one a week.

1768
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:23,640
[House music]

1769
01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:46,360
We're one of the top
dance labels out there.

1770
01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:49,560
The name in the square,
Labello Blanco Recordings.

1771
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:51,120
The reason we've got the name:

1772
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:55,440
Labello meaning label,
Blanco: white.

1773
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:58,320
It was supposed to be
Italian meaning white label,

1774
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,960
that's what we are, we're a
white label independent company

1775
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:02,720
and we put the
square to box it off

1776
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:04,480
and it's been really
effective for us.

1777
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:08,400
[Artful Dodger -
Moving Too Fast]

1778
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:11,080
My name's David Low.

1779
01:28:11,160 --> 01:28:14,400
I'm a DJ producer for Artful
Dodger and Platinum Breaks.

1780
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:17,720
[Artful Dodger - Rewind]

1781
01:28:19,480 --> 01:28:21,720
I met Andy through my brother.

1782
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,760
My brother was a rapper Jimmy
with Bug Kann & The Plastic Jam.

1783
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,000
Andy was New Class A.

1784
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:29,520
They used to do
the gigs together

1785
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:32,000
and they started the
record label, Labello Blanco.

1786
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:34,360
And I thought I was a bit
of a rapper, 12 years old.

1787
01:28:34,440 --> 01:28:37,240
So I met Andy back then
as long ago as that.

1788
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:40,080
Jimmy used to take me to his
house and stuff in Dagenham

1789
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:41,360
back in the day.

1790
01:28:41,480 --> 01:28:45,520
They was doing all the big
raves, illegal raves together.

1791
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:48,960
They met getting
the studio together

1792
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:50,480
and then I think
they started the label.

1793
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:53,480
Andy started Labello
Blanco and Jimmy joined.

1794
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:58,120
Andy at the time, he would
obviously do his records,

1795
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,080
white labels, or dub plates,

1796
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:03,440
and then people would
play them out

1797
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,440
and then obviously people would
record them, they'd put them out

1798
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:08,360
and then people would
go into record shops

1799
01:29:08,440 --> 01:29:11,440
with a tape or the CD
and go, what is that track?

1800
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:13,120
Oh, it's Labello Blanco.

1801
01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:15,360
And then Andy would
be like, 'Fucking hell,

1802
01:29:15,440 --> 01:29:18,840
we just released that, we've
sold 50,000 fucking records.'

1803
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:22,400
Me and Andy, we had a band
called New Class A back in '91

1804
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:26,240
then we started setting up
the record label Labello.

1805
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:28,440
Labello Dance...
I had Labello Dance,

1806
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:30,920
which was more
house sort of stuff.

1807
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:32,480
And then we had
the 'Public Demand.'

1808
01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:34,840
And then I found
the real crooks.

1809
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:37,440
Oh mate.

1810
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:40,800
If I have to lie, I'm not
going to call him a crook

1811
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:43,600
because I'm going to tell you
about the industry's crooked.

1812
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,640
But if you want to
meet someone who is so...

1813
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:49,720
how can I say it?
I'm not going to say...

1814
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:53,120
I actually like him,

1815
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:55,680
so I don't want to
make him sound bad.

1816
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,840
Let's just say that someone
who took your business

1817
01:29:57,920 --> 01:29:59,720
quite quickly was Pete Waterman.

1818
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:01,680
I did two and a half years
with Pete.

1819
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:03,800
He taught me everything.

1820
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:09,720
I did work experience at the
label when they was at PWL.

1821
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:13,960
A good two weeks
of my life, that was.

1822
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:20,360
Eventful, then when I was
17, left school, Andy and Jimmy

1823
01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:23,320
gave me a job at the label at
Labello Blanco - Public Demand.

1824
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:26,000
Keith Mac will say I was
tea-boy at the record label

1825
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:27,800
when I first started.

1826
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,000
But yeah, Andy and Jimmy
gave me the chance

1827
01:30:31,080 --> 01:30:32,080
at the record label

1828
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:33,920
and I've been in the music game
ever since.

1829
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:35,720
Yeah, I just learned the
business as I was there.

1830
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:37,520
I mean, I started there
when I was 17

1831
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:42,240
all the way up to 24, 25, 26.

1832
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:46,200
So, a good 10 years, 11, 12
years at the record company.

1833
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:48,360
You just learn how
the business works,

1834
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,680
what better people to learn
from than Andy and my brother?

1835
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:53,920
Love to hate him.

1836
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,600
He's brilliant and I
learned from the best.

1837
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,080
I did a few months
with Simon Cowell,

1838
01:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,040
but I did two and a half years
me, Keith and him.

1839
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:07,560
Unbelievable at
what he did and done.

1840
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:09,800
So he kicked his managing
director out of his office.

1841
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:13,360
Gave us that, gave us recording
studios, gave us free rent,

1842
01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:17,440
he gave us advanced
money to do music.

1843
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:21,040
He gave us free studio...
Well, he gave us studio time,

1844
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,240
nothing's free with Pete,
which we work out down the line

1845
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:26,840
and he guided us a lot.

1846
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:30,600
Yeah, I had a lot of
arguments with him

1847
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:34,040
but what a character,
what a person to learn off of.

1848
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:37,240
Well, we signed
Artful Dodger's first record,

1849
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,080
What You Going To Do
with Craig David,

1850
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:42,160
which was a big UK... it was
a big underground hit.

1851
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:46,240
Then they brought us Rewind,
but no DJs would play it.

1852
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:48,280
You have these things cut
called dub plates

1853
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:50,200
and we got 'em cut for DJs
and was giving 'em out

1854
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,160
to DJs and Mikey B from the
Dream Team come back and said,

1855
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:55,840
there's too many
Rewind parts in the track.

1856
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:57,840
So we took the middle one out

1857
01:31:58,320 --> 01:32:01,720
and then Rewind then
become a massive underground

1858
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,640
and then obviously a
massive chart success,

1859
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:07,760
went number two in the national
charts and it was amazing

1860
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:10,040
to be around that and
a part of that at the time,

1861
01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:11,400
we'd never obviously had...

1862
01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:14,360
the record label never had
a number two record before.

1863
01:32:14,440 --> 01:32:16,520
We'd had a couple of tunes that
had charted back in the day,

1864
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:19,160
but nothing of this magnitude.

1865
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:23,120
I had Craig David, and put out
Ms Dynamite 'Booo!'

1866
01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:26,080
Artful Dodger
is still mine, well,

1867
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:28,600
I say mine it's still under
our umbrella as such.

1868
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,760
At the time, because
I loved music,

1869
01:32:32,480 --> 01:32:35,000
obviously I was hearing
about this garage movement,

1870
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:39,520
and that's obviously when
Andy and Jimmy was obviously

1871
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:42,120
building up their record label

1872
01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:44,160
and they were doing some

1873
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:46,040
big things with Artful
Dodger and people like that.

1874
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:48,560
And I think at that time
when you...

1875
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:52,080
I just remember people saying,
'Have you heard this garage?'

1876
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:54,600
Yeah we had some...
it was some good times.

1877
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,640
Went to some good events,
had some good parties from it.

1878
01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:00,600
And then we had some
other successful hits after that

1879
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,760
from Woman Trouble to
Miss Dynamite - Booo!

1880
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:05,800
and then the whole
Artful Dodger album came,

1881
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:08,120
I think there was seven
top 10 hits from the one album.

1882
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:12,840
Done 1.5 million, and
then we did Artful Dodger.

1883
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:17,640
We done three of Craig's
tracks, Jungle Massive albums.

1884
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:21,240
Yeah, and become
a force within...

1885
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:23,920
become one of the
biggest drum & bass labels,

1886
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:25,440
which is Labello Blanco.

1887
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:27,720
And we've become one of
the biggest in the top five

1888
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,720
of big garage labels,
which was Public Demand.

1889
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:34,480
I did the music from 1992,

1890
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,120
'91, '92,

1891
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:39,200
right through to the 2000s,

1892
01:33:39,480 --> 01:33:40,880
2002, 2003,

1893
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:44,520
lost my love for the music.

1894
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:48,040
Just become too political,
too dark,

1895
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:51,280
too moody, too many fights.

1896
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:53,920
I could do that at football
let alone going to a nightclub.

1897
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:01,720
I'm Danny Swallow,

1898
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:03,960
Master Pasha, some people
might know me as

1899
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,000
I'm one of the owners
of Centreforce Radio,

1900
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,240
I'm Andy's son, Mr Pasha's son,

1901
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,360
the original,
the founder of Centreforce,

1902
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:12,840
and I'm the one that's
in control today.

1903
01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:16,000
December '17,
we'd been running...

1904
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:18,480
a friend of mine's daughter,

1905
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,200
she has cancer so we was
trying to raise money for her,

1906
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:22,760
we thought we'd do a party.

1907
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,360
Bring back all the...
How that came about,

1908
01:34:26,440 --> 01:34:29,360
I don't know, but we had the
Centreforce Facebook page

1909
01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:31,480
so we was like let's run
a Facebook live video'

1910
01:34:31,560 --> 01:34:34,800
and Majestic, another
good friend of ours,

1911
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:38,200
he was like, 'Look, I know how
to set it up on Facebook live.'

1912
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:40,440
So, we ran it every day
for a week

1913
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:43,480
and in that week,
we did over a million views.

1914
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:47,480
And I was like, 'Wow!'

1915
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:51,120
There are still people my age
and older going out

1916
01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:54,800
and doing the same thing they
were doing in 1988, '89, '90,

1917
01:34:55,280 --> 01:35:00,600
maybe not as late or as heavily,
but they're still doing it.

1918
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:04,240
And it's never really left people,
it's always stayed there.

1919
01:35:04,320 --> 01:35:08,200
That feeling, the idea
of the joyous nature

1920
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:11,320
of an uplifting nature
of house music,

1921
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:13,160
bringing people together,

1922
01:35:13,480 --> 01:35:15,200
that's had a real impact
on people,

1923
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:17,360
and they've never
forgotten that.

1924
01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:19,520
So, when it came back,

1925
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:23,200
it just felt as if,

1926
01:35:23,280 --> 01:35:26,840
yeah, everyone would
say Centreforce, 88.3.

1927
01:35:26,920 --> 01:35:28,840
There was this idea

1928
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:32,400
and I think
that's never left people.

1929
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:35,000
So, we were like,
'Look, let's keep the ball rolling

1930
01:35:35,080 --> 01:35:36,680
and keep the momentum
flowing,'

1931
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:38,960
and when we did that

1932
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:43,960
it just became, slowly but
surely, the interaction was mad,

1933
01:35:44,040 --> 01:35:49,480
we had 32,000 likes,
12,000 shares and comments.

1934
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:53,400
It was ridiculous, it was
like pirate on Facebook.

1935
01:35:53,480 --> 01:35:55,120
That's exactly
what it was like.

1936
01:35:55,200 --> 01:35:56,760
Like with the old pager days.

1937
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:58,760
And when...

1938
01:36:00,160 --> 01:36:02,200
I remember, we was
doing it for a long time,

1939
01:36:02,280 --> 01:36:05,000
a good couple of months,
and when we did it,

1940
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:09,600
we never got cut off,
never got any interruptions,

1941
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:11,200
never got any copyright issues

1942
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:13,600
it was almost like
we was ahead of the game.

1943
01:36:13,680 --> 01:36:14,960
When Facebook came knocking,

1944
01:36:15,040 --> 01:36:17,560
I don't think he would've
been shy about that one

1945
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,240
because it's just like...

1946
01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:24,520
you have to have the good
sense to realise what's there.

1947
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:28,320
You don't want
to be some sort of

1948
01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:30,880
curator of your own existence.

1949
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,480
You can't be kind of mired
in that kind of nostalgia.

1950
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:37,080
Things do move on
irrespective of what you believe

1951
01:36:37,160 --> 01:36:38,520
or how you want them to.

1952
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:43,520
And I think that you have
to try to be sort of conversant

1953
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:45,920
with opportunities
as they actually exist.

1954
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:49,560
We were streaming via
Facebook, it was video,

1955
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,560
it was just us with music playing,

1956
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:53,640
don't get me wrong,
we had good sound quality,

1957
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:54,960
we always have, always will.

1958
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:56,720
And we were just
interacting with the people

1959
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,280
because the messages
would come up live,

1960
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:02,640
so we were just shouting
them out and it was great,

1961
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:05,120
my dad said it was as close
to pirate as we will ever get,

1962
01:37:05,200 --> 01:37:07,560
as close to the good old days
as we'll ever get.

1963
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:12,880
And that led to something
crazy happening,

1964
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,400
my dad was out in Tenerife,

1965
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:20,360
we'd just finished a
live stream with Keith Mac

1966
01:37:20,440 --> 01:37:23,200
funnily enough, we did
our one millionth view show.

1967
01:37:23,280 --> 01:37:26,360
It blew up. We broke a million
in the first 10 minutes

1968
01:37:26,440 --> 01:37:28,880
and it was just incredible.

1969
01:37:29,160 --> 01:37:31,760
He's roped me back
into it after I left it all.

1970
01:37:31,840 --> 01:37:33,720
I was like, 'No, no!'

1971
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:35,480
And he started doing
the Facebook thing again.

1972
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:37,480
'Oh come on.' I'm like,
'No, I don't want to do it.'

1973
01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:39,200
'I've done my thing with you.'

1974
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:41,840
And then he slowly gets
hold of ya and then bang,

1975
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:43,680
you're back into it all.
The chaos again.

1976
01:37:45,120 --> 01:37:47,520
Centreforce finished,
you saw all this emergence

1977
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:50,320
of all these other radio stations,
pirate stations popping up.

1978
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:51,840
So, they did lead the way.

1979
01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:53,760
They were the forerunners.

1980
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:56,560
So, it was only inevitable,
even though decades later,

1981
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:57,840
that we came back.

1982
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:00,120
Daniel Bunter and them, they
do his thing where you go down

1983
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:03,280
and you do a talk, do a seminar,
so I'm sitting on stage

1984
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:06,280
and there was someone
who's got a real frequency FM,

1985
01:38:06,360 --> 01:38:09,400
they've done really well, and
they started talking about DAB.

1986
01:38:09,480 --> 01:38:11,280
I was like, 'What's that?'

1987
01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:14,240
So, I turned around to him,
'What's DAB?'

1988
01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:16,760
'Digital Auto Band.'
It's a new form of FM

1989
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:18,480
but it ain't so hard
to get on it.

1990
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:20,640
I come out and I said, so I've
answered all these questions,

1991
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:22,480
everybody wants to
know about Centreforce,

1992
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:23,840
they want to know
about Centreforce,

1993
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:25,400
so I came out and
I said to Danny,

1994
01:38:25,480 --> 01:38:27,880
'DAB, what's DAB?
Have a look at it.'

1995
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:30,960
Not many people
knew about it so,

1996
01:38:31,480 --> 01:38:34,080
we applied for a license...

1997
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:37,360
We applied for a space
first of all with the DAB body.

1998
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:41,600
And we got in touch with the
people who run Essex Multiplex.

1999
01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:45,840
We got in touch and got
chatting and we was ready to go.

2000
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:49,040
They were like,
'One final thing,

2001
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:51,320
you need to get your
license from Ofcom.'

2002
01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:53,320
I was like, 'Oh here we go.'

2003
01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:57,200
So, I literally spent 3 months
filling out the application

2004
01:38:57,480 --> 01:38:59,880
getting everything set,
getting it right, making sure

2005
01:38:59,960 --> 01:39:04,040
I was on point as a person
applying for a license

2006
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:07,040
because at the end of the
day, I'm the license holder,

2007
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:10,000
Centreforce has the license
but I'm the license holder.

2008
01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:11,280
I'm the one responsible.

2009
01:39:11,720 --> 01:39:13,000
You swear on air?

2010
01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:14,240
Comes down to me.

2011
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,160
Or you break the rules,
it's my fault

2012
01:39:17,240 --> 01:39:19,840
because I'm the license holder,
I'm the person responsible.

2013
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:21,760
So I made sure
everything was right,

2014
01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:24,080
but during that 3 month period,

2015
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:28,160
it was like
I was sitting there one day

2016
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,280
with my dad and I was like,

2017
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:33,000
'Why don't we try and get
on the London one, let's see.'

2018
01:39:36,080 --> 01:39:37,640
Probably one of the best
things that happened is

2019
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:40,320
I went to Tenerife,

2020
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:41,800
and I said,

2021
01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:44,320
'You go and get a licence
and we'll do it.' And he did.

2022
01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:46,960
And people say to me,
'Oh, you know...'

2023
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:50,720
You got to remember,
he's 27...

2024
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:51,920
26, 27.

2025
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:56,120
And he's got the whole of a
radio station on his shoulders.

2026
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:57,800
That's some achievement.

2027
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:01,040
People do look at me and go,
it's your radio station.

2028
01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:06,520
Historically, it's my
radio station. Not today.

2029
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:07,840
No.

2030
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:11,000
Yeah, it's a big thing to do.
Yeah.

2031
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:13,440
I'll let you off
on that one, Dan.

2032
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:16,480
It was the wait
that felt like 3 years

2033
01:40:16,560 --> 01:40:18,240
but it was like 6 weeks really,

2034
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:20,280
for Ofcom to come
back with their decision

2035
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:21,720
regarding our license

2036
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:26,160
and the day
they gave me my license

2037
01:40:26,240 --> 01:40:28,800
I remember crying
for about an hour.

2038
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,440
It was five years ago,
he went off and got a licence.

2039
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:34,880
I don't know how
he done it. He did.

2040
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:36,960
And I remember
meeting the DAB people

2041
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:40,400
and they looked at me and
went, 'You can't have one.'

2042
01:40:40,480 --> 01:40:43,960
They were laughing, he went,
'You can't have one, you can.'

2043
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:47,840
And they took a chance
with us, and it just flew.

2044
01:40:48,240 --> 01:40:51,320
I was like,
'We got our DAB license!'

2045
01:40:51,400 --> 01:40:55,760
And literally from that day

2046
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:58,320
I said, 'I can't believe
what we've done.'

2047
01:40:58,400 --> 01:41:00,640
He was like, 'You can't
believe what you've done?'

2048
01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:03,440
'You ain't done nothing yet,
you've got a license,

2049
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:05,240
now the real work starts.'

2050
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:08,200
I was like - yeah, you're right.

2051
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:11,960
I've got 24 hours a day,
7 days a week,

2052
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:17,120
equipment, I've got shows
to fill, DJs, presenters.

2053
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,480
Every single thing,
I had to go and get,

2054
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,240
and I had a go live
date in 6 months.

2055
01:41:23,320 --> 01:41:24,440
They called me and said,

2056
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,560
'Do you want to
go live in 2 weeks?'

2057
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:29,280
And I was like,
'Yeah go on then.'

2058
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:34,200
And then phoned my dad, I said,
'We're going live in 2 weeks.'

2059
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:37,000
He was like, 'I'm on holiday,
I'm in Tenerife for 6 weeks.

2060
01:41:37,080 --> 01:41:38,200
What are you talking about?'

2061
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:40,240
I was like, 'No you got to
come back, we're going live.'

2062
01:41:48,520 --> 01:41:51,000
Just as Centreforce
was about to come back,

2063
01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:55,720
I'd realised I couldn't really
earn any money here anymore.

2064
01:41:55,800 --> 01:41:58,360
You're ducking
and diving for so...

2065
01:41:58,440 --> 01:42:00,920
you can only duck
and dive for so long.

2066
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,360
I come out of the music
industry that I didn't like.

2067
01:42:03,640 --> 01:42:06,200
I've done the Craig David
stuff and that

2068
01:42:06,280 --> 01:42:09,160
and I just, I've always
had affiliation with Tenerife.

2069
01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:12,080
I've always had businesses there,
and we already had a bar there.

2070
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:18,800
I'm Donna and I'm
from London, Chingford.

2071
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:20,920
Me and Andy met
at The Academy

2072
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:23,480
in Langston Road in Loughton.

2073
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:25,640
He started hitting on me
straight away.

2074
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,000
Oh it was a few years before
I turned to Mrs. Swallow.

2075
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:31,400
We got married in 2016.
I met him in 2007.

2076
01:42:31,480 --> 01:42:33,640
So marriage wasn't
really on the cards,

2077
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,120
but then when we had Amelia,
kind of changed things

2078
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:38,760
and I thought - I wanted her
to be the same name as me.

2079
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:40,840
So just one family.

2080
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,360
She's 12 now, Amelia.
Yes, going on 21.

2081
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:47,120
It's all pros coming out here.
It's great for Amelia.

2082
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:49,040
She can go to the
beach every day.

2083
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:51,040
She's horse-riding.

2084
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:52,600
We're in the sun constantly,

2085
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:54,920
you wake up happy when
you're in the sun, don't you?

2086
01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:56,600
With us, we've boomed.

2087
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:58,840
We started off with one
business, now we've got four.

2088
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:01,920
So yeah, we just keep
going and see how we get.

2089
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:05,400
He started from what most
people start with, not a lot

2090
01:43:05,480 --> 01:43:07,800
and he's worked his way up,
but he's struggled to do that.

2091
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:09,440
He's been knocked
down quite a few times,

2092
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:11,000
but he's always
come back up on top.

2093
01:43:11,080 --> 01:43:13,880
So he's come a long way
and he's done well.

2094
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:17,040
I went there to retire.

2095
01:43:17,120 --> 01:43:19,520
As soon as I arrived,
I got an opportunity

2096
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,760
to open up another bar with
some backers from the UK,

2097
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:26,120
which was Joyce, which we did.

2098
01:43:26,240 --> 01:43:28,960
And then we got
the radio station there

2099
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:30,920
and we've now opened up Rejoyce

2100
01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:34,640
and we've now opened up
Centreforce FM on the Canaries.

2101
01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:36,640
So, we've got Centreforce
out there as well,

2102
01:43:36,720 --> 01:43:38,920
which plays the music
from here and from Canaries.

2103
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:41,400
To get the licence
was one thing,

2104
01:43:41,480 --> 01:43:43,520
but then to open the
doors and broadcast

2105
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:45,280
and still be on now

2106
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:49,280
six years later,
it's nothing short of incredible.

2107
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:53,640
And the way that we did it
in such a destructive manner,

2108
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:56,120
I mean we never even
did a marketing campaign.

2109
01:43:56,200 --> 01:43:57,600
We was like, we're here.

2110
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:01,440
And I think the way that the
brand's grown so naturally

2111
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:03,760
through word of mouth and
through people just getting

2112
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:07,440
back in touch, that was
out raving back in the day,

2113
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:11,520
I think that it's a real positive
story and it's a real story

2114
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,240
that you can't help
but fall in love with.

2115
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:18,080
That was the major thing for
me was grounding the business

2116
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:20,720
and making sure that
we stay true to our roots.

2117
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,560
I mean we say it all the time -
from the streets of East London,

2118
01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:25,920
we don't get much more real
than that. You know what I mean?

2119
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:27,520
They always had
shoutouts back in the day

2120
01:44:27,600 --> 01:44:30,720
and it was via a pager
and I can't imagine.

2121
01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:33,960
So, I think now the fact that
modern technology's evolved,

2122
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:36,880
we're able to access
the messaging system

2123
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:38,400
anywhere in the world.

2124
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:40,840
When we're broadcasting
from Australia or New York

2125
01:44:40,920 --> 01:44:43,680
or Chicago or right here
in Tenerife.

2126
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:47,640
Being able to take that Centreforce
family around the world with me

2127
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:48,960
is the most important thing.

2128
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:51,040
This is all fantastic,
but if we couldn't

2129
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:52,680
bring the Centreforce
family here

2130
01:44:52,760 --> 01:44:54,440
and couldn't have
the messages live,

2131
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:56,080
we wouldn't be doing
the shows from here.

2132
01:44:56,200 --> 01:45:00,400
I think that's why Centreforce
will stay and will forever be

2133
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:02,360
the biggest station

2134
01:45:02,440 --> 01:45:04,280
is because we are
by the people

2135
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:06,760
and we are for the people.
That's it.

2136
01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:08,840
Like everything we do,
I'm always

2137
01:45:08,920 --> 01:45:10,960
my first concern is
our Centreforce family.

2138
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:13,320
Before making money
and before making

2139
01:45:13,400 --> 01:45:15,840
the business successful, the
family have got to be happy,

2140
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:17,880
if they're not happy
then we've got nothing.

2141
01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:21,920
I've got an extremely
talented roster of DJs,

2142
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:23,840
some of the biggest
names in the industry,

2143
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:26,520
and without those guys,
we wouldn't be what it is.

2144
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:31,840
I'm Micky Moore. Tenerife
and Essex, London originally.

2145
01:45:32,200 --> 01:45:34,320
My name's Benno, I'm
from Manchester originally,

2146
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:36,400
but lived in Tenerife
most my life.

2147
01:45:36,480 --> 01:45:40,240
I was a product of the care
system, I was in care in Essex,

2148
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:44,600
so in the '60s, been
in schools and all that.

2149
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:49,160
And then '75, a friend of mine,
Andy's friend Grant,

2150
01:45:49,240 --> 01:45:51,840
moved to Essex and
we had a little gang

2151
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:56,040
used to muck around,
football, causing havoc.

2152
01:45:56,240 --> 01:46:00,320
So about 1976,
Grant introduced us to Andy.

2153
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:01,840
Andy moved to Southend.

2154
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,600
So we ended up going to
Southend, meet up with Andy.

2155
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:09,320
I found a family in my
football club, my mates,

2156
01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:11,240
we're like companions.

2157
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:12,960
It was always there.

2158
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:15,720
Know what I mean, doing things
together, weren't just football.

2159
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:19,160
We'd go youth clubs, we'd go
parties and we'd be in music.

2160
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:21,440
I hadn't seen Andy for a
few years, you know what I mean?

2161
01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:22,760
Not since Echoes days.

2162
01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:26,400
He said, 'The radio's back on
again, we're doing the radio.

2163
01:46:26,480 --> 01:46:28,880
Got this studio, got this...'
He was selling me it.

2164
01:46:28,960 --> 01:46:30,440
You know? And I'm like, what?

2165
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:32,240
It was pirate before,
you know what I mean?

2166
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:33,640
Used to listen to this and...

2167
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:36,080
'No, no, we've got this,
we've got this, we've got that.'

2168
01:46:36,160 --> 01:46:38,000
He said, 'Come down.'
I'm always welcome.

2169
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:41,560
So I'll give a mooch, I'll have
a look, see what's going on.

2170
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:44,440
And then after that
we just met again for the party.

2171
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:47,720
Went to that, started
going to the studio.

2172
01:46:48,280 --> 01:46:50,000
We used to go down
just to see Andy

2173
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:52,200
go and see him, everyone
come down to his show.

2174
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:55,160
So we used to go down there,
muck around, 20 of us.

2175
01:46:55,320 --> 01:46:58,280
And then one day he was like,
'Just help us out, Micky.'

2176
01:46:58,360 --> 01:46:59,320
I went, 'What?'

2177
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:02,040
He went, 'Just write this down,
these messages.'

2178
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:04,840
Done it once, got the job.

2179
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:11,480
I met Andy through my old man
who introduced me to him.

2180
01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:15,080
And at the time I was only
DJing in another club over here

2181
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,760
one or two days a week,
trying to get my break.

2182
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:20,800
It was more a bit of fun
to be honest.

2183
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:25,440
And then Andy gave me a
few shifts early on in Joyce's,

2184
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:28,160
his club on the
Las Americas Strip.

2185
01:47:28,240 --> 01:47:31,040
As time went on, he slowly
started giving me more nights

2186
01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:34,080
and then eventually he
made me the resident DJ

2187
01:47:34,160 --> 01:47:37,000
and I've been
there now two years.

2188
01:47:37,280 --> 01:47:40,160
And obviously you meet all
the Centreforce lot in there.

2189
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:41,640
They come in a lot.

2190
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:45,240
And I've done a few shows
with the likes of Max Fernandez.

2191
01:47:45,320 --> 01:47:46,240
They are like a family.

2192
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,240
You can't call 'em a
community. Everyone's so nice.

2193
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:53,520
I've not met anyone that's like...
yeah, it's good, it's great.

2194
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:55,720
Shout outs is all what
he's about on Centreforce.

2195
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:58,160
It's never going to change.
That's how we started.

2196
01:47:58,880 --> 01:48:00,600
Shout outs is how it is.

2197
01:48:00,680 --> 01:48:03,000
No playlist, play what we want.

2198
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:04,320
And that's how it is.

2199
01:48:04,560 --> 01:48:08,040
It just makes people feel part
of, it's like a family thing.

2200
01:48:08,120 --> 01:48:11,720
It's not like mainstream radio.
We interact with the people.

2201
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:16,000
There's so many people just
sending in every two seconds.

2202
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:20,640
So it's massive and I think
to them as a community

2203
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:22,520
as well, it's such a big thing.

2204
01:48:22,600 --> 01:48:26,880
They listen to it, some people
like 12, 13 hours a day.

2205
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:28,840
So to hear their names
shouted out I think

2206
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:32,800
is such a big thing from them,
from their favourite DJs.

2207
01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:36,680
See some of the DJs on
there were massive in the '90s,

2208
01:48:36,760 --> 01:48:38,880
like the biggest names
you could.

2209
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:43,240
So to them I think it's a
really big thing and important.

2210
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:47,560
And I think me leaving the
country and coming here,

2211
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:51,440
he had to flourish because
with me being there,

2212
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,280
it probably wouldn't have grown
as big as it would've been because

2213
01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:56,560
it's either my way or no way.

2214
01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,520
Yeah? And they ignored me.

2215
01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:04,080
He's taken some convincing.

2216
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:06,680
We nearly had fights.
Don't worry about that.

2217
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:08,840
We've nearly had stand up
fights with each other.

2218
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:11,400
The thing is that we're father
and son, but we're best mates.

2219
01:49:11,480 --> 01:49:14,520
So we argue, we fight,
but at the end of the day,

2220
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:15,920
we do it for the right reasons.

2221
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,760
We're not just standing there
and arguing for no reason.

2222
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:20,480
It's both because
we care so much.

2223
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:23,120
Seeing what I've done
with his legacy

2224
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:27,840
and it's now being able to
pass our legacy to my son.

2225
01:49:27,920 --> 01:49:31,880
And then if we can,
like you said, if Centreforce

2226
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,320
is still around in 60 years' time
and he's still popping in

2227
01:49:34,400 --> 01:49:35,880
and doing his Monday show,

2228
01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:39,400
then nothing would make me
happier than to have my son,

2229
01:49:39,480 --> 01:49:42,040
me and my dad all on
a radio station together.

2230
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:43,520
I mean, who wouldn't want that?

2231
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:46,200
The radio brings everybody
together and I think

2232
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:48,280
as long as we can
always keep that passion,

2233
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:51,160
keep that - we are
the same as you.

2234
01:49:51,240 --> 01:49:54,280
If you do feel down and a little
bit lonely, talk to somebody,

2235
01:49:54,360 --> 01:49:56,360
talk to the radio,
send a message in.

2236
01:49:56,520 --> 01:49:58,080
We'll always get back to you.

2237
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:01,040
That's the difference
with Centreforce is that

2238
01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:03,920
we set up with a mission
to become the station,

2239
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:06,400
to provide
information to people.

2240
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:09,520
We took that one step
beyond them, when now

2241
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:12,560
that voice in the room
where that little person

2242
01:50:12,640 --> 01:50:15,360
that when you're feeling low,
you flick on the radio

2243
01:50:15,440 --> 01:50:18,560
and you get greeted
with a welcoming voice,

2244
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:20,320
a load of good music...

2245
01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:21,520
And Justin Childs.

2246
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:24,960
And sometimes Justin Childs
and Micky Moore, sometimes!

2247
01:50:25,080 --> 01:50:26,320
Forgot about him too!

2248
01:50:26,680 --> 01:50:29,080
Yeah, definitely having
a family and having that.

2249
01:50:29,160 --> 01:50:31,520
That's the reason why
we're doing this now.

2250
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:33,320
And Centreforce is the family.

2251
01:50:33,400 --> 01:50:34,240
Yeah, that's it.

2252
01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:35,280
You're our family.

2253
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:36,320
Welcome to the family.

2254
01:50:37,360 --> 01:50:38,240
That's it.

2255
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:40,720
Last year we took
the brand to Liverpool,

2256
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:43,600
we took the brand to
Stoke, all around the UK,

2257
01:50:44,040 --> 01:50:48,120
to get as much love when
you go to a new city, new town,

2258
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:51,760
it's just mad, I mean, this year,
by the time this comes out,

2259
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:53,400
we'll have
announced all the plans

2260
01:50:53,480 --> 01:50:55,480
taking the brand
to Dubai this year,

2261
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:58,200
we're taking the brand
to Ibiza, around the world.

2262
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:00,800
And when we go to these places,

2263
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:03,160
the reception is no different.

2264
01:51:03,240 --> 01:51:05,640
You get welcomed with open arms

2265
01:51:05,720 --> 01:51:08,480
and everybody's just
buzzing to have a bit of time.

2266
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:12,320
But how about here? We've
set up Centreforce Canarias.

2267
01:51:12,400 --> 01:51:15,520
We've been on something like
four months and we're now

2268
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:19,640
going to be playing
main stage 100,000+.

2269
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:21,360
There'll be about
400,000 people there,

2270
01:51:21,440 --> 01:51:24,600
but the main stage about
100,000 Centreforce takeover,

2271
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:25,880
that's never happened.

2272
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:29,080
We've now come to a point
where we feel we are ready

2273
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:33,040
to come back into the record
label in a different format

2274
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,400
and Danny and them have
now set up a whole way of

2275
01:51:36,480 --> 01:51:40,080
doing music, record labels,
and we will be back.

2276
01:51:40,520 --> 01:51:42,120
Dan. You've got it.

2277
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,880
This year, launching in May.

2278
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:47,400
So by the time this is out,
all going to be ready.

2279
01:51:47,520 --> 01:51:49,680
883 Records,
Centreforce Records.

2280
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:52,240
We've got five subdivisions
underneath that.

2281
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:55,520
One of 'em, which taking
heritage, taking inspiration

2282
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:58,800
from something that my
dad created, 883 Rewind.

2283
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:01,000
It's going to be taking you on
a journey through everything

2284
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:03,720
house, garage,
and really reviving

2285
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:05,880
giving that scene the kick
up the arse like it needs.

2286
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:09,560
If you look at a lot
of the people that

2287
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:12,280
around my dad's generation
and look at 'em now,

2288
01:52:12,360 --> 01:52:14,080
they was all underdogs
in their own right.

2289
01:52:14,160 --> 01:52:15,360
Nobody wanted them to succeed.

2290
01:52:15,440 --> 01:52:17,280
There was nobody
giving them handouts.

2291
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:19,120
There was nobody
helping them along their way

2292
01:52:19,200 --> 01:52:20,760
or showing them a
direction like I've had.

2293
01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:24,640
Him, for me, he's
the biggest inspiration,

2294
01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:27,440
the biggest reason
that I do what I do,

2295
01:52:28,040 --> 01:52:29,320
it's because of him.

2296
01:52:30,600 --> 01:52:32,800
There's only one
real true underdog.

2297
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:34,120
That's my old man.

2298
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:39,120
We're just happy here in
the sun, pop down to the beach,

2299
01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:41,720
pop to the bars,
have a couple of drinks,

2300
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:45,080
have some nice dinner, tapas,
and it's just a nice life.

2301
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:47,800
[Andy doing a shout-out]

2302
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:50,840
I think the interesting
thing about, as opposed to

2303
01:52:50,920 --> 01:52:53,440
most of the top guys
from all kinds of clubs

2304
01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:54,680
from that era

2305
01:52:54,760 --> 01:52:56,840
is that he made it
about what he did

2306
01:52:56,920 --> 01:52:59,800
rather than about who he was,
he kept himself away

2307
01:52:59,880 --> 01:53:02,640
from the limelight
basically, as an individual,

2308
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:06,440
but publicised everything that
he was involved in that he did.

2309
01:53:06,520 --> 01:53:11,400
He was probably one of the
last great analogue influencers.

2310
01:53:11,480 --> 01:53:14,520
There's a great organisational
intelligence at work

2311
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,280
because he basically
changed football hooliganism

2312
01:53:17,360 --> 01:53:19,320
and the way it was organised.

2313
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:21,760
He was certainly one of
the main guys that did that.

2314
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:24,480
But he also took
these kind of skills,

2315
01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:28,160
these organisational skills,
into setting up the radio station

2316
01:53:28,240 --> 01:53:29,840
into organising raves.

2317
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:34,480
And it always seemed to me that

2318
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:36,840
he was more than about football.

2319
01:53:37,080 --> 01:53:40,040
One of the things that I really
love in working class people

2320
01:53:40,120 --> 01:53:41,480
is a sense of entitlement.

2321
01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:43,560
Anybody that's working class,

2322
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:45,800
you've got to have a
massive sense of entitlement.

2323
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:49,000
If you've not got that,
you're going to be shat on.

2324
01:53:49,240 --> 01:53:51,360
For people like Andy,
it was never an option

2325
01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:53,480
not to have that
sense of entitlement.

2326
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:55,200
And I think it's important.

2327
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:57,720
I think it's absolutely
crucial that you have,

2328
01:53:57,800 --> 01:53:59,040
if you're working class,

2329
01:53:59,120 --> 01:54:01,760
you have the biggest sense
of entitlement possible.

2330
01:54:01,880 --> 01:54:04,400
Well, Andy was like us.

2331
01:54:04,480 --> 01:54:07,800
He would stay with you,
he would be your friend

2332
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:09,920
and he would be loyal
and he would help you

2333
01:54:10,000 --> 01:54:11,280
if you was in trouble.

2334
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:14,160
We have always been
underdogs in every way

2335
01:54:14,240 --> 01:54:17,520
as West Ham supporters,
West Ham as a club,

2336
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:20,280
and us as kids,
we was always underdogs.

2337
01:54:20,360 --> 01:54:24,440
We was the forgotten class,
and still are in many respects

2338
01:54:24,520 --> 01:54:26,320
and we wanted
our day in the sun.

2339
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:29,760
And Andy's gone on to do
what he's done with Centreforce

2340
01:54:29,840 --> 01:54:32,440
and built this wonderful
thing out of nothing.

2341
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:34,080
I don't think for two old
East End Boys,

2342
01:54:34,160 --> 01:54:35,320
we've done bad between us.

2343
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:37,440
He's old school, he's old
school East End, ain't he?

2344
01:54:37,520 --> 01:54:39,920
So he's got them morals,
them old school morals

2345
01:54:40,000 --> 01:54:43,680
so he'd always help people out.

2346
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:46,760
He's got to somewhere in his
life and he's helping people up.

2347
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:47,920
If it wasn't for him,

2348
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:49,840
then I wouldn't be doing
what I'm doing now.

2349
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:51,240
And he does that
throughout his life

2350
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:53,560
I've seen him take
people under his wing

2351
01:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,360
and give them an opportunity
to do something

2352
01:54:55,440 --> 01:54:58,120
with their life or make
something of themselves.

2353
01:54:58,280 --> 01:55:02,160
He's got a reputation because
of the football, basically.

2354
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,840
As I said, if you work
for someone for that long,

2355
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:07,320
you're going to have rows,
you know what I mean?

2356
01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:10,720
But he's alright.
I call him 'The old man.'

2357
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:16,240
He's such a kind
person, he's so caring

2358
01:55:16,320 --> 01:55:18,160
and anybody that
really knows him

2359
01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:20,280
and anybody that
is friends with him

2360
01:55:20,360 --> 01:55:22,240
and is lucky enough
to call him a friend,

2361
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:24,840
I think they'll tell you
as much as I do,

2362
01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:29,440
he's not this big scary monster,
deep down he's a big softie,

2363
01:55:29,520 --> 01:55:33,040
but he's a product of his
environment ultimately.

2364
01:55:33,160 --> 01:55:35,520
And now I really see

2365
01:55:35,600 --> 01:55:37,320
he actually ain't a
product of his environment.

2366
01:55:37,400 --> 01:55:39,120
His environment's
now a product of him

2367
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:42,160
because he has set the mould
and he's set the way of life,

2368
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:44,840
I think for anybody from
that background

2369
01:55:44,920 --> 01:55:47,400
because he ain't ever let it
hold him back.

2370
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:50,560
And I think his personality
and the fight and desire

2371
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:52,920
that he really has
is unmatchable.

2372
01:55:53,120 --> 01:55:56,200
This is everybody's
story, this is my story,

2373
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:59,240
this is Danny's story,
this will be Beau's story

2374
01:55:59,480 --> 01:56:01,520
Danny's boy too.

2375
01:56:01,640 --> 01:56:05,360
But to do the music, the DJing

2376
01:56:05,960 --> 01:56:07,920
and then to pass
that down to Beau,

2377
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,080
which is the next generation,
that's massively important.

2378
01:56:11,160 --> 01:56:12,680
And for Amelia as well.

2379
01:56:12,760 --> 01:56:15,080
I know she laughs,
Amelia, at 12,

2380
01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:17,960
but she has a little look at
the music that we do,

2381
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:20,480
and in her little sense,
she's always up there with me.

2382
01:56:20,560 --> 01:56:24,120
She said to me yesterday,
I'm having my birthday party

2383
01:56:24,200 --> 01:56:26,960
but I'm not having
your old music, Dan.

2384
01:56:27,040 --> 01:56:28,680
I'm having some new stuff.

2385
01:56:28,760 --> 01:56:31,880
And I was like, 'I play new music,
Amelia. That's what I do.'

2386
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:34,600
It is for the generations,
it's for Danny,

2387
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:36,120
it's for Beau and
it is for Amelia.

2388
01:56:36,200 --> 01:56:37,800
And I think that's
the thing as well.

2389
01:56:37,880 --> 01:56:39,240
It is a family thing.

2390
01:56:39,320 --> 01:56:42,160
It's a family business and I
want to pass it down to my boy

2391
01:56:42,240 --> 01:56:44,360
and I hope that he
passes it down to his,

2392
01:56:44,440 --> 01:56:47,560
if we can keep it going for
another 40, 50, 60 years

2393
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:50,240
then Centreforce really
did stand the test of time.

2394
01:56:50,320 --> 01:56:51,920
Yeah. Especially
if I'm still DJing.

2395
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:55,720
I'll tell you what, mate,
stranger things have happened.

2396
01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:57,160
Watch this space!

2397
01:56:58,720 --> 01:56:59,880
You never know.

2398
01:57:32,360 --> 01:57:35,000
[Cockney Rejects -
Forever Blowing Bubbles]