1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:21,063 --> 00:00:22,898 {\an8}[Keith] In March of '97, 4 00:00:22,940 --> 00:00:25,693 {\an8}I'm sleeping on my bed at seven o'clock with a pager, 5 00:00:25,735 --> 00:00:27,903 {\an8}and that alerts us to fires. 6 00:00:27,945 --> 00:00:29,530 {\an8}And at seven o'clock, 7 00:00:29,572 --> 00:00:30,990 {\an8}I hear the dispatcher's voice come over, 8 00:00:31,031 --> 00:00:32,700 {\an8}toning us out for a building fire with people trapped. 9 00:00:33,743 --> 00:00:35,703 And I'm three months into being 18 10 00:00:35,745 --> 00:00:38,247 and I'm still not sure of myself as a firefighter. 11 00:00:39,415 --> 00:00:42,835 And I get that lump, first time I get a lump, I go, 12 00:00:42,877 --> 00:00:44,420 "Oh, God, people trapped, I'm gonna have to go in 13 00:00:44,462 --> 00:00:45,588 and pull someone out of a building. 14 00:00:45,629 --> 00:00:47,006 I hope it's not a kid." 15 00:00:47,047 --> 00:00:48,632 {\an8}So, I-- I take off out of my house, 16 00:00:48,674 --> 00:00:49,884 {\an8}I run across the common 17 00:00:49,925 --> 00:00:51,844 {\an8}and I get to the firehouse 18 00:00:51,886 --> 00:00:54,555 {\an8}and-- and I'm shaking right now because I-- I could feel it. 19 00:00:55,389 --> 00:00:57,433 So, we get there, the house is fully involved. 20 00:00:57,475 --> 00:00:59,769 I can see it from the road, it's a hundred-foot driveway, 21 00:00:59,810 --> 00:01:01,520 flames 50 feet in the air. 22 00:01:01,562 --> 00:01:03,439 Uh, I get my-- I get my job, my task, 23 00:01:03,481 --> 00:01:05,357 getting off the truck, I get to the back of the truck 24 00:01:05,399 --> 00:01:07,318 to pull the big hose line off. 25 00:01:07,359 --> 00:01:09,320 They pull up the driveway, and then I follow behind them. 26 00:01:09,361 --> 00:01:11,197 As I get up to the-- even with the house and the driveway, 27 00:01:11,238 --> 00:01:14,033 I see what appears to be a lump of blankets 28 00:01:14,074 --> 00:01:15,451 being carried past me. 29 00:01:15,493 --> 00:01:16,952 It was not a lump of blankets. 30 00:01:16,994 --> 00:01:18,579 It was a woman who was in the building 31 00:01:18,621 --> 00:01:20,998 and as they get to my shoulder, I-- I smell it. 32 00:01:22,625 --> 00:01:24,668 And it's a smell I cannot get rid of. 33 00:01:26,337 --> 00:01:29,089 And as that goes by me and I realize what it is, 34 00:01:29,131 --> 00:01:30,883 it is a body, 35 00:01:30,925 --> 00:01:33,511 I look, and there's an older gentleman, 36 00:01:33,552 --> 00:01:36,013 {\an8}the co-- one of the cops is with him by the garage 37 00:01:36,055 --> 00:01:37,807 {\an8}and he's bleeding from his wrists, 38 00:01:37,848 --> 00:01:39,809 {\an8}and he's, like, 82 years old. 39 00:01:39,850 --> 00:01:41,727 And I'm like, "What the fuck is going on? 40 00:01:41,769 --> 00:01:43,521 What did I just walk into?" 41 00:01:43,562 --> 00:01:45,272 {\an8}And then we still don't know where the chief is, 42 00:01:45,314 --> 00:01:47,107 {\an8}or at least I don't, 43 00:01:47,149 --> 00:01:48,984 {\an8}and I look and the chief comes diving out of the window 44 00:01:49,026 --> 00:01:50,820 {\an8}that they just pulled the woman out of 45 00:01:50,861 --> 00:01:52,488 and flames come out right after him. 46 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:55,866 And this is all in a matter of, like, 15 seconds. 47 00:01:57,117 --> 00:01:58,786 That was my first fatal fire. 48 00:01:59,578 --> 00:02:02,289 So the day gets over, we get relieved. 49 00:02:03,332 --> 00:02:06,877 Um, we're told by the senior officer on scene, "Go home." 50 00:02:07,878 --> 00:02:09,922 Because two of us were very young, we're brand new. 51 00:02:10,631 --> 00:02:12,007 "Go home." 52 00:02:12,049 --> 00:02:13,300 Well, I walk into the bathroom. 53 00:02:13,342 --> 00:02:15,219 We had Pert Plus for shampoo 54 00:02:15,261 --> 00:02:17,513 and we all-- anyone who knows what Pert Plus is 55 00:02:17,555 --> 00:02:19,306 knows what it smelled like and I was huffing it. 56 00:02:19,348 --> 00:02:21,100 I took almost a quarter of a bottle of it 57 00:02:21,141 --> 00:02:22,935 and just drove it into my nose 58 00:02:22,977 --> 00:02:25,062 and I'm sitting in the fetal position in my bathtub 59 00:02:25,104 --> 00:02:26,856 just huffing Pert Plus trying to get rid 60 00:02:26,897 --> 00:02:29,859 of the smell of a burnt old lady 61 00:02:29,900 --> 00:02:31,652 that I never thought I was gonna smell. 62 00:02:33,612 --> 00:02:35,698 That was three months into my-- my career. 63 00:02:37,032 --> 00:02:38,492 I didn't even graduate high school yet. 64 00:02:41,161 --> 00:02:42,538 {\an8}[interviewer] 65 00:02:46,542 --> 00:02:48,460 {\an8}What they do is they bring everyone who was on scene, 66 00:02:48,502 --> 00:02:50,337 {\an8}especially first on scene, into this. 67 00:02:50,379 --> 00:02:51,797 So, there were some cops, 68 00:02:51,839 --> 00:02:53,299 there were some EMTS that were there, 69 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:55,718 and there was, the truck I was on, 70 00:02:55,759 --> 00:02:57,887 all members of that and a few other firefighters. 71 00:02:58,721 --> 00:03:00,681 And basically, um... 72 00:03:02,141 --> 00:03:04,476 it was asked, "All right, so you guys were here at this call, 73 00:03:04,518 --> 00:03:06,687 someone died, uh. 74 00:03:06,729 --> 00:03:08,272 You guys want to talk about how that affected you? 75 00:03:08,314 --> 00:03:09,940 You wanna share some feelings?" 76 00:03:09,982 --> 00:03:12,443 And of course, it's a room full of all men 77 00:03:12,484 --> 00:03:15,529 and, as I remember it, not one person shared anything. 78 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,282 And I may be slightly incorrect with that, 79 00:03:18,324 --> 00:03:19,867 but the one thing I do remember, 80 00:03:19,909 --> 00:03:22,328 and it sticks out with me to this day, 81 00:03:22,369 --> 00:03:25,247 is at one point, the guy running that was like, 82 00:03:25,289 --> 00:03:27,249 "Okay, guys, well, coffee and donuts in the back." 83 00:03:27,291 --> 00:03:30,169 [tense music building] 84 00:03:38,552 --> 00:03:41,055 [Riggle] Every first responder has the one call 85 00:03:41,096 --> 00:03:42,181 that sticks with them. 86 00:03:42,806 --> 00:03:44,600 It's true for Keith Hanks, 87 00:03:44,642 --> 00:03:46,894 and it's true for his fellow firefighters, 88 00:03:46,936 --> 00:03:50,648 police officers, and EMTS in rural towns in Massachusetts 89 00:03:50,689 --> 00:03:52,274 and its neighboring communities. 90 00:03:54,151 --> 00:03:56,487 [Gambino] I think my second fire was a fatal fire. 91 00:03:56,528 --> 00:03:59,406 That's 18 years old. Getting off the truck. 92 00:04:00,908 --> 00:04:03,285 Didn't think any of it then, but I can still remember... 93 00:04:04,787 --> 00:04:06,538 that day. 94 00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:08,499 It was a four-year-old girl who was struck by a car. 95 00:04:08,540 --> 00:04:10,084 She was dragged 62 feet. 96 00:04:10,125 --> 00:04:12,044 Her whole family was there. 97 00:04:12,086 --> 00:04:14,922 We literally had to pry her from her grandfather's arms, 98 00:04:14,964 --> 00:04:16,966 and that whole scene and the chaos 99 00:04:17,007 --> 00:04:18,592 and it just happened to be a busy day. 100 00:04:18,634 --> 00:04:20,302 A lot of people in front of a restaurant, 101 00:04:20,344 --> 00:04:22,221 so, um, 102 00:04:22,262 --> 00:04:24,098 a lot of people watching us, you know, 103 00:04:24,139 --> 00:04:26,475 drag this poor child out, so. 104 00:04:26,517 --> 00:04:28,227 And I made the mistake of looking at her eyes, 105 00:04:28,268 --> 00:04:31,105 and that's a big no-no, so, um, 106 00:04:31,146 --> 00:04:33,482 that's the call that-- that stuck with me. 107 00:04:33,524 --> 00:04:35,317 And as soon as I walked in, I noticed a table 108 00:04:35,359 --> 00:04:37,820 and there was a shell casing from a 40 caliber 109 00:04:37,861 --> 00:04:40,906 and the smell of gunpowder was in the air mixed with blood. 110 00:04:40,948 --> 00:04:42,825 I can still see the-- 111 00:04:42,866 --> 00:04:45,869 the boy who succumbed to his injuries' face. 112 00:04:45,911 --> 00:04:48,706 An elderly lady hit a trailer truck head on. 113 00:04:48,747 --> 00:04:50,749 She was, you know, dead at the scene. 114 00:04:50,791 --> 00:04:53,460 The floorboards in the car just crumpled up 115 00:04:53,502 --> 00:04:55,462 and were, like, all around her leg. 116 00:04:55,504 --> 00:04:57,006 Quadruple homicide. 117 00:04:57,047 --> 00:04:58,382 And it was kind of shocking 118 00:04:58,424 --> 00:05:00,342 seeing that hatred and damage 119 00:05:00,384 --> 00:05:02,344 that one family member did to another. 120 00:05:02,386 --> 00:05:05,305 The shit that was happening, the calls we were going to, 121 00:05:05,347 --> 00:05:06,890 the murders I was going to. 122 00:05:07,558 --> 00:05:08,642 The rapes... 123 00:05:09,393 --> 00:05:11,895 the domestics, the women I was seeing getting beaten. 124 00:05:11,937 --> 00:05:13,772 I found all three kids, 125 00:05:13,814 --> 00:05:16,442 and I pulled the only one that survived out myself. 126 00:05:16,483 --> 00:05:18,068 And we realized, "Oh, shit, 127 00:05:18,110 --> 00:05:20,320 we just walked into an active crime scene." 128 00:05:20,362 --> 00:05:21,864 There was a person around the corner 129 00:05:21,905 --> 00:05:24,116 that was tied and executed. 130 00:05:24,158 --> 00:05:27,202 No police, no fire, no one's with us except for us. 131 00:05:27,244 --> 00:05:29,872 It was probably over two and a half to three years, 132 00:05:29,913 --> 00:05:31,832 but I had multiple suicides 133 00:05:31,874 --> 00:05:35,461 and multiple high critical incidents. 134 00:05:35,502 --> 00:05:38,756 And one of my firefighter's high school friends 135 00:05:38,797 --> 00:05:41,508 shot himself with a rifle in a bathtub. 136 00:05:41,550 --> 00:05:43,343 Watching people die, like, 137 00:05:43,385 --> 00:05:46,513 how do you process that when you're 19 years old? 138 00:05:48,390 --> 00:05:50,309 [Riggle] Becoming a first responder often means 139 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:52,436 pursuing the family business, 140 00:05:52,478 --> 00:05:55,481 or it's the next step after leaving the military. 141 00:05:55,522 --> 00:05:58,567 {\an8} Or, in many instances, it's both, 142 00:05:58,609 --> 00:06:02,071 {\an8} a lifetime path laid at an especially young age. 143 00:06:02,112 --> 00:06:03,864 [Keith] My family is, uh, 144 00:06:03,906 --> 00:06:06,533 military and firefighter based 145 00:06:06,575 --> 00:06:09,203 dating back all the way to 1875. 146 00:06:09,787 --> 00:06:11,872 Uh, so, a lot of my earliest memories growing up 147 00:06:11,914 --> 00:06:13,457 were seeing my-- 148 00:06:14,374 --> 00:06:17,795 my family, my-- my mother's side of the family, 149 00:06:17,836 --> 00:06:20,089 which was all I really had in my life, 150 00:06:20,130 --> 00:06:23,509 um, running out the door going to-- going to emergencies. 151 00:06:23,550 --> 00:06:25,135 Yeah, my dad was-- actually, 152 00:06:25,177 --> 00:06:26,804 he was a firefighter in the Air Force, 153 00:06:26,845 --> 00:06:28,931 and then he was on-call firefighter 154 00:06:28,972 --> 00:06:30,808 in Townsend for 17 years. 155 00:06:31,308 --> 00:06:33,644 {\an8}So, I used to go, and I was, like, the-- 156 00:06:33,685 --> 00:06:35,521 {\an8}the gofer who'd go get all the guys a beer 157 00:06:35,562 --> 00:06:37,272 {\an8}out of the fridge 158 00:06:37,314 --> 00:06:39,525 {\an8}and, uh, I'd, you know, hang out at the stations. 159 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:42,069 {\an8}Then when I was 18, I decided 160 00:06:42,111 --> 00:06:44,321 {\an8}that's what I want to do, give it a shot. 161 00:06:44,363 --> 00:06:45,864 {\an8}My whole family was either police, 162 00:06:45,906 --> 00:06:47,574 {\an8}fire, or EMS at some point. 163 00:06:47,616 --> 00:06:49,743 {\an8}Father was in the military for 25 years, 164 00:06:49,785 --> 00:06:51,703 {\an8}three time Vietnam vet. 165 00:06:51,745 --> 00:06:54,623 {\an8}Uh, every day seeing him in his uniform when I was younger, 166 00:06:54,665 --> 00:06:57,042 {\an8}I could remember he wore it with such pride. 167 00:06:57,084 --> 00:06:58,919 I mean, the main reason why I chose the fire service 168 00:06:58,961 --> 00:07:00,754 is 'cause I had a friend in the Marines, 169 00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:02,965 one of my best friends who I'm still in touch with now, 170 00:07:03,006 --> 00:07:04,800 who joined the Baltimore Fire Department. 171 00:07:04,842 --> 00:07:07,553 I went in the Navy right out of high school. 172 00:07:07,594 --> 00:07:09,388 When I got out, I joined the, uh, 173 00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:11,140 Townsend Fire Department as a call member. 174 00:07:11,181 --> 00:07:12,850 Started in the military. 175 00:07:12,891 --> 00:07:14,643 I was actually in the third Ranger Battalion 176 00:07:14,685 --> 00:07:16,228 for a brief period, 177 00:07:16,270 --> 00:07:18,272 uh, had some combat experience there. 178 00:07:18,313 --> 00:07:21,483 {\an8}Honestly, um, it was kind of my dad's fault. 179 00:07:21,525 --> 00:07:23,235 {\an8}Got a phone call from the dispatch center, 180 00:07:23,277 --> 00:07:25,028 {\an8}they needed an ambulance 181 00:07:25,070 --> 00:07:26,864 {\an8}over on the next street over for a car accident. 182 00:07:26,905 --> 00:07:28,699 {\an8}My dad looks at me, I'm 16 years old, 183 00:07:28,740 --> 00:07:30,659 {\an8}he looks at me and says, "You want to come with me to help?" 184 00:07:30,701 --> 00:07:32,202 {\an8}I'm like, "Sure." 185 00:07:32,244 --> 00:07:34,371 {\an8}And from there I was kind of hooked. 186 00:07:34,413 --> 00:07:35,873 {\an8}[interviewer] 187 00:07:35,914 --> 00:07:37,374 {\an8}Mm-hm. 188 00:07:40,502 --> 00:07:42,379 {\an8}Oh, yes. 189 00:07:42,421 --> 00:07:44,423 {\an8}I'm sure nobody would like to admit that he did, but-- 190 00:07:44,464 --> 00:07:46,091 {\an8}He didn't talk about anything. 191 00:07:46,717 --> 00:07:48,010 {\an8}"We don't talk about it." 192 00:07:48,635 --> 00:07:50,596 {\an8}"Oh, Dad, what was that?" "We're not talking about that." 193 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,764 {\an8}"Okay." 194 00:07:55,851 --> 00:07:58,729 {\an8}[chuckles] Yes. Very much so. 195 00:08:04,484 --> 00:08:06,236 {\an8}- It was what I knew. - [interviewer] Yeah. 196 00:08:06,278 --> 00:08:07,779 I knew what to expect. 197 00:08:08,697 --> 00:08:11,366 It was something, like, a safety net. 198 00:08:12,534 --> 00:08:16,538 He had seen some awful, awful things 199 00:08:16,580 --> 00:08:17,956 and I remember, 200 00:08:17,998 --> 00:08:20,083 I think it was one Christmas eve, 201 00:08:20,125 --> 00:08:22,461 we were coming home from a Christmas party, 202 00:08:22,502 --> 00:08:24,796 and there was a call and he thought, you know, 203 00:08:24,838 --> 00:08:26,590 "It's a car accident. I'll just go real quick. 204 00:08:26,632 --> 00:08:28,050 I'm gonna leave you two in the car." 205 00:08:28,091 --> 00:08:29,176 It was just me and my oldest son, 206 00:08:29,218 --> 00:08:31,178 and it was fatal. 207 00:08:31,220 --> 00:08:33,347 Dead on impact, and that was what he saw on Christmas eve. 208 00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:36,516 And then I'm like, you know, he gets in the truck 209 00:08:36,558 --> 00:08:38,518 and I could tell he's upset and I'm like, 210 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:40,812 "Hey, you know, are you okay?" And he's like, "No, we're fine." 211 00:08:41,396 --> 00:08:42,981 I'm like, "Are you sure?" "No, we're-- 212 00:08:43,774 --> 00:08:45,400 we're fine, like, everything's good." 213 00:08:45,442 --> 00:08:48,070 It was, uh, why am I even mentioning it? 214 00:08:49,154 --> 00:08:52,991 So, it definitely affected quite a bit. 215 00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:54,284 Even, um... 216 00:08:55,410 --> 00:08:58,830 later our nephew had killed himself 217 00:08:58,872 --> 00:09:00,791 and he was a twin 218 00:09:00,832 --> 00:09:02,960 and his nephew, my other nephew, found him, 219 00:09:03,001 --> 00:09:06,171 so he was identical, so it really messed them all up. 220 00:09:07,130 --> 00:09:10,050 And I remember Brian having a conversation with him 221 00:09:10,092 --> 00:09:13,262 saying, "Look, you know, I hold everything in. 222 00:09:13,887 --> 00:09:15,097 Don't be like me." 223 00:09:25,941 --> 00:09:27,317 {\an8}Can I ask you a question then? 224 00:09:27,985 --> 00:09:29,236 {\an8}How would you bring that up? 225 00:09:29,861 --> 00:09:31,405 How would you start that conversation? 226 00:09:32,531 --> 00:09:35,158 So, starting the conversation's hard enough, 227 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,868 but I think between it being... 228 00:09:37,577 --> 00:09:39,871 {\an8}an extremely masculine job 229 00:09:39,913 --> 00:09:43,125 {\an8}where we see terrible things 230 00:09:43,166 --> 00:09:44,167 {\an8}and it's so-- 231 00:09:44,710 --> 00:09:46,086 If you look at firefighters nowadays, 232 00:09:46,128 --> 00:09:48,005 most of them are, 233 00:09:48,046 --> 00:09:49,881 "My dad was a firefighter. My uncle was a firefighter." 234 00:09:49,923 --> 00:09:52,384 It's always somebody in the family was a firefighter, 235 00:09:52,426 --> 00:09:53,677 so this is something they know. 236 00:09:55,846 --> 00:09:57,639 But they know the fun side of it. 237 00:09:57,681 --> 00:09:59,766 Like, "Dude, I saw you coming out of that building, 238 00:09:59,808 --> 00:10:01,226 looks awesome, this is great. 239 00:10:01,268 --> 00:10:03,061 Like, you're a hero!" 240 00:10:03,103 --> 00:10:05,022 But they don't see the ones that you didn't save, 241 00:10:05,063 --> 00:10:06,773 and they don't hear those conversations 242 00:10:06,815 --> 00:10:08,734 of the dark side of it. 243 00:10:08,775 --> 00:10:10,193 Like, yeah, it's great 244 00:10:10,235 --> 00:10:12,904 and it's such a commendable job 245 00:10:12,946 --> 00:10:14,573 that not many can do. 246 00:10:16,450 --> 00:10:17,701 But there's a reason for that. 247 00:10:20,329 --> 00:10:22,122 [Riggle] First responders are America's heroes 248 00:10:22,164 --> 00:10:24,583 for what they do on a daily basis, 249 00:10:24,624 --> 00:10:27,210 but no one wants to talk about what they see, 250 00:10:27,252 --> 00:10:29,921 especially the uniformed men and women themselves. 251 00:10:30,464 --> 00:10:34,176 {\an8}We didn't really talk about the bad stuff that we saw. 252 00:10:34,217 --> 00:10:37,387 {\an8}I mean, there were a lot of fires back in the late '90s, 253 00:10:37,429 --> 00:10:40,349 {\an8}early 2000s that we went to, a lot of bad car accidents. 254 00:10:40,390 --> 00:10:42,184 {\an8}You just never talked about it. 255 00:10:42,225 --> 00:10:44,519 {\an8}Like, everybody says, "You're-- you're a firefighter, 256 00:10:44,561 --> 00:10:46,355 {\an8}you're supposed to be tough. 257 00:10:46,396 --> 00:10:47,439 {\an8}You know, you don't... 258 00:10:48,648 --> 00:10:50,525 {\an8}You help people, you don't need help." 259 00:10:50,567 --> 00:10:51,818 {\an8}[interviewer] 260 00:10:53,111 --> 00:10:54,196 {\an8}Yes. 261 00:10:56,990 --> 00:10:58,075 {\an8}Here we go again, right? 262 00:10:58,825 --> 00:11:00,744 {\an8}Yeah, we-- we follow the same path. 263 00:11:00,786 --> 00:11:03,080 {\an8}So, in the military, again, you-- you can't be that guy, 264 00:11:03,121 --> 00:11:05,665 {\an8}the weak link in the chain that's talking about it. 265 00:11:05,707 --> 00:11:09,211 {\an8}So, uh, my first experience with death was at 19 years old. 266 00:11:09,252 --> 00:11:11,838 {\an8}I saw an eight-year-old kid step on a land mine, 267 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,257 {\an8}and all the thoughts that go with that 268 00:11:14,299 --> 00:11:16,051 {\an8}and nothing was dealt with. 269 00:11:16,093 --> 00:11:18,512 {\an8}Nobody talked about it, my-- my son, 270 00:11:18,553 --> 00:11:20,597 {\an8}wife, kids, they probably don't even know that, 271 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:22,891 {\an8}but it's just one of those things that we deal with. 272 00:11:22,933 --> 00:11:25,435 And then I get that four-year-old girl, 273 00:11:25,477 --> 00:11:27,562 and they don't look too different from that trauma 274 00:11:27,604 --> 00:11:28,855 that I saw with the eight-year-old, 275 00:11:28,897 --> 00:11:30,315 so it just continues. 276 00:11:30,357 --> 00:11:31,858 It's just a continuous path, 277 00:11:31,900 --> 00:11:34,111 and we do tend to like that same work 278 00:11:34,152 --> 00:11:35,612 because we are trying to help, 279 00:11:35,654 --> 00:11:37,114 we're trying to do the right thing, 280 00:11:37,155 --> 00:11:38,490 and it's just kind of one of those calling things 281 00:11:38,532 --> 00:11:39,866 that we-- we hear about. 282 00:11:39,908 --> 00:11:40,992 {\an8}Every day was... 283 00:11:41,618 --> 00:11:44,579 {\an8}a routine day for us was somebody's worst day 284 00:11:44,621 --> 00:11:45,831 {\an8}all the time and... 285 00:11:46,748 --> 00:11:49,126 {\an8}- it gets to you eventually. - [interviewer] Yeah. 286 00:11:49,167 --> 00:11:52,796 You're gonna see death, dismemberment, heartache... 287 00:11:54,047 --> 00:11:56,091 but you don't actually comprehend it 288 00:11:56,133 --> 00:11:58,051 if that makes sense. 289 00:11:58,093 --> 00:12:00,262 You can understand something without having to go through it, 290 00:12:00,303 --> 00:12:02,347 but when you're going through it, 291 00:12:02,389 --> 00:12:03,849 the gravity of the situation 292 00:12:03,890 --> 00:12:05,892 is much heavier than I ever expected. 293 00:12:05,934 --> 00:12:08,145 {\an8}You know, you-- you gotta be the tough guy because that's... 294 00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:11,523 {\an8}the field that you're in, you-- you gotta be the tough guy, 295 00:12:11,565 --> 00:12:13,400 {\an8}and, you know, 296 00:12:13,442 --> 00:12:17,904 {\an8}that being part of the culture 297 00:12:17,946 --> 00:12:19,531 {\an8}doesn't help any of us, 298 00:12:19,573 --> 00:12:22,284 {\an8}and I don't have any experience insofar as, 299 00:12:22,325 --> 00:12:24,244 {\an8}you know, going to talk to somebody, you know, 300 00:12:24,286 --> 00:12:26,997 {\an8}like a psychologist or a psychiatrist or whatever. 301 00:12:27,038 --> 00:12:28,582 {\an8}Or a counselor, you know, whatever. 302 00:12:28,623 --> 00:12:29,791 {\an8}I don't have any experience with that 303 00:12:29,833 --> 00:12:31,835 {\an8}because it wasn't accepted. 304 00:12:31,877 --> 00:12:33,295 {\an8}[interviewer] 305 00:12:35,714 --> 00:12:38,425 {\an8}Not regarding, no-- not regarding, 306 00:12:38,467 --> 00:12:40,177 {\an8}you know, PTSD or anything like that. 307 00:12:40,218 --> 00:12:42,512 You know, I mean, my-- my primary care doctor, 308 00:12:42,554 --> 00:12:45,599 yeah, I-- I talked to him about some depression, but... 309 00:12:46,391 --> 00:12:47,893 You see bad accidents 310 00:12:47,934 --> 00:12:49,394 and I'm not trying to be a tough guy, 311 00:12:49,436 --> 00:12:50,896 you see things you normally your body-- 312 00:12:50,937 --> 00:12:53,190 you try to condition yourself for it, 313 00:12:53,231 --> 00:12:55,484 you try to get ready for it, but you never really are. 314 00:12:55,525 --> 00:12:57,360 This stuff will stay with you in your mind. 315 00:12:57,402 --> 00:12:59,029 You know, like I said, 316 00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:01,156 it was taboo to talk about bad things then. 317 00:13:02,282 --> 00:13:04,075 {\an8}It's the stigma is the biggest one 318 00:13:04,117 --> 00:13:06,578 {\an8}is that, you know, men don't meditate, 319 00:13:06,620 --> 00:13:08,413 {\an8}you know, men don't have feelings, men don't-- 320 00:13:09,414 --> 00:13:11,374 {\an8}you know, there's-- there's a lot of walls up 321 00:13:11,416 --> 00:13:14,044 {\an8}from our fathers and those who came before us 322 00:13:14,085 --> 00:13:16,963 {\an8}that it's just-- it's not talked about, you know? 323 00:13:17,005 --> 00:13:18,465 There's not many people 324 00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:20,425 who openly say they meditate, you know? 325 00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:22,886 There-- there are more now, but not in the fire service, 326 00:13:22,928 --> 00:13:25,096 not in the military, you know, um. 327 00:13:25,931 --> 00:13:28,016 To even acknowledge that you have emotion 328 00:13:28,058 --> 00:13:29,726 in the military is weakness. 329 00:13:29,768 --> 00:13:30,936 You know what I mean? Like, it's-- 330 00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:34,898 we're not anywhere near where we need to be, 331 00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:36,775 and to be perfectly honest with you, 332 00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:37,984 I don't know how I could... 333 00:13:39,569 --> 00:13:41,029 be an infantryman 334 00:13:41,071 --> 00:13:43,740 and have the feelings I have now. 335 00:13:43,782 --> 00:13:45,992 And it's the same thing with the fire service, you know? 336 00:13:47,619 --> 00:13:52,123 We subconsciously turn the dials down 337 00:13:52,165 --> 00:13:53,792 for certain emotions 338 00:13:53,833 --> 00:13:55,877 because we have to 339 00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:58,797 to perform at the level that we're needed to. 340 00:13:58,838 --> 00:14:01,258 People need you to be strong, they need you to be calm. 341 00:14:01,299 --> 00:14:03,468 If you show up on scene and you're a mess 342 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:05,220 and you're crying, you're-- you're not helping. 343 00:14:05,262 --> 00:14:07,806 So, empathy has to go down a little bit, you know, 344 00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:09,891 so you can think more logically. 345 00:14:09,933 --> 00:14:11,351 You know, left brain, right brain, 346 00:14:11,393 --> 00:14:12,477 whatever you want to call it, you know, 347 00:14:13,061 --> 00:14:15,063 No one's doing it on purpose, 348 00:14:15,105 --> 00:14:16,731 but you have to, and over time... 349 00:14:18,024 --> 00:14:20,860 you learn that that's how you get through these calls, 350 00:14:20,902 --> 00:14:23,071 that's how you rise to the occasion, 351 00:14:23,113 --> 00:14:24,781 that's how you think clearly 352 00:14:24,823 --> 00:14:27,409 is you let go of some of the things that... 353 00:14:29,452 --> 00:14:32,330 you know, weaker people would bring. 354 00:14:33,248 --> 00:14:36,668 That's-- that's not strength in those moments of extreme stress. 355 00:14:37,294 --> 00:14:40,630 But the problem is when you numb yourself like that over time... 356 00:14:41,673 --> 00:14:43,883 you don't-- you don't just turn it off 357 00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:45,719 at the end of the shift. 358 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,680 It-- it becomes who you are. You know, you change. 359 00:14:48,722 --> 00:14:49,973 Your whole life changes. 360 00:14:50,682 --> 00:14:53,393 And if you ask any spouse 361 00:14:53,435 --> 00:14:56,062 who's been married to someone, you know, in the fire service, 362 00:14:56,104 --> 00:14:58,315 they'll tell you, "Oh, yeah, he's changed here 363 00:14:58,356 --> 00:14:59,733 or she's changed." 364 00:15:00,191 --> 00:15:02,152 It takes a while to get the perspective 365 00:15:02,193 --> 00:15:05,697 of what it actually does to you, uh. 366 00:15:06,448 --> 00:15:09,326 But, uh, a number of years ago I came home from a shift 367 00:15:09,367 --> 00:15:11,036 and was talking with my wife, 368 00:15:11,077 --> 00:15:12,454 and she was like, "You're changing. 369 00:15:13,163 --> 00:15:15,915 Yeah, you're-- you're not the same person right now. 370 00:15:15,957 --> 00:15:17,584 There's something going on. You're changing." 371 00:15:17,626 --> 00:15:19,044 That's what happens. 372 00:15:19,085 --> 00:15:21,046 You-- you adapt to your environment, 373 00:15:21,087 --> 00:15:23,214 and that's what we do in this profession. 374 00:15:23,256 --> 00:15:26,676 You know, in the military, when I was 18 years old... 375 00:15:27,886 --> 00:15:30,096 I was very pliable, 376 00:15:30,138 --> 00:15:31,473 and it was... 377 00:15:33,391 --> 00:15:35,101 beaten into us that, 378 00:15:35,143 --> 00:15:37,062 you know, "You don't feel this, 379 00:15:37,103 --> 00:15:39,189 you don't think that way. 380 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:41,983 You think this way" and it's brainwashing, it is. 381 00:15:42,025 --> 00:15:43,443 Let's call a spade a spade. 382 00:15:44,027 --> 00:15:45,737 Uh, I never wanted to admit that I was brainwashed, 383 00:15:45,779 --> 00:15:47,572 but I was absolutely brainwashed. 384 00:15:47,614 --> 00:15:50,909 But I had to be to do the job 385 00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:53,620 that I chose, to be fair. 386 00:15:53,662 --> 00:15:55,914 And then there's no resources, 387 00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:57,290 no direction as to... 388 00:15:58,375 --> 00:16:00,585 how to turn any of that back on, 389 00:16:00,627 --> 00:16:02,837 and you can't live in this world 390 00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:05,382 without these things and be happy. 391 00:16:05,924 --> 00:16:08,093 There is a little bit of resentment, like, "Why? 392 00:16:08,802 --> 00:16:10,345 Why can't you talk about it with me? 393 00:16:10,387 --> 00:16:12,597 If we're partners, if we're half and half, 394 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:14,391 you should be able to talk about it." 395 00:16:14,432 --> 00:16:16,393 But I almost feel like with most... 396 00:16:17,352 --> 00:16:20,897 first responders, it's like you feel full 397 00:16:20,939 --> 00:16:23,733 and you picture yourself full of this black ink 398 00:16:23,775 --> 00:16:25,527 or black paint, 399 00:16:25,568 --> 00:16:27,404 and if you want to express that and tell them like, 400 00:16:27,445 --> 00:16:29,114 "This is all the awful things I saw." 401 00:16:29,155 --> 00:16:31,783 You feel like now that black paint's on you, 402 00:16:31,825 --> 00:16:33,451 and you don't want to get them dirty 403 00:16:33,493 --> 00:16:35,620 with all the nitty-gritty things you see. 404 00:16:35,662 --> 00:16:37,205 You want to keep them clean 405 00:16:37,247 --> 00:16:39,457 or you want to keep them innocent, kind of. 406 00:16:42,043 --> 00:16:44,254 {\an8}- [interviewer] - [Keith] Sure. 407 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,258 In 1999, I started working for her father 408 00:16:48,299 --> 00:16:50,719 on a part-time job along with the fire department. 409 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,595 She opened up my world to so many things. 410 00:16:52,637 --> 00:16:55,849 She showed me what love really was. 411 00:16:55,890 --> 00:16:57,517 In 2000, we ended up getting married. 412 00:16:58,643 --> 00:17:00,019 I thought I had everything figured out. 413 00:17:00,061 --> 00:17:01,521 I thought the world was my oyster. 414 00:17:01,563 --> 00:17:03,732 I had all my stuff... 415 00:17:04,691 --> 00:17:06,234 that I knew about, 416 00:17:06,276 --> 00:17:07,444 but I didn't think anything could go wrong. 417 00:17:07,485 --> 00:17:09,487 [emotional music playing] 418 00:17:12,866 --> 00:17:14,284 It did. 419 00:17:14,325 --> 00:17:15,994 We had a-- Heather and I... 420 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:18,455 had hit some turbulent waters. 421 00:17:18,496 --> 00:17:19,914 I was starting to show some signs 422 00:17:19,956 --> 00:17:21,499 of what we would later figure out 423 00:17:21,541 --> 00:17:23,251 is my-- is my PTSD... 424 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:26,755 and I kind of became unhinged. 425 00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:29,340 We had a physical and verbal fight. 426 00:17:29,382 --> 00:17:31,176 So we spent the next two weeks separated. 427 00:17:31,217 --> 00:17:33,011 I live back with my parents for a little bit 428 00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:36,306 and she comes over on a Friday night, April 11, 2003. 429 00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:38,850 And's like, "This is dumb. 430 00:17:39,851 --> 00:17:41,144 I love you." 431 00:17:41,186 --> 00:17:43,897 And we forgave each other. 432 00:17:44,606 --> 00:17:46,524 We're like, "Let's just go back to our lives. 433 00:17:46,566 --> 00:17:47,942 We have two kids. 434 00:17:47,984 --> 00:17:49,569 We're-- we're 24 and 25 years old, 435 00:17:49,611 --> 00:17:51,029 like, we have our whole life ahead of us. 436 00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:52,113 You have a career ahead of you. 437 00:17:54,032 --> 00:17:56,075 You made a mistake. We're gonna get you help." 438 00:17:56,117 --> 00:17:57,869 She says to me, "We're gonna get you help." 439 00:17:58,870 --> 00:18:01,039 And we made plans with my friend 440 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,583 Dave Gambino and his wife at the time, Christina. 441 00:18:04,042 --> 00:18:05,752 So, we go back to our house in Lancaster, 442 00:18:05,794 --> 00:18:07,170 we meet them, we get in my truck. 443 00:18:07,212 --> 00:18:08,755 Me and Dave get in the front, 444 00:18:08,797 --> 00:18:10,799 which was weird for some reason, I don't-- 445 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,467 We normally had couples-couples, you know? 446 00:18:12,509 --> 00:18:13,968 I sit with my wife, he says with his, 447 00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:15,637 but we didn't do that that night. 448 00:18:15,678 --> 00:18:17,639 Usually, it was Keith and Heather in the front 449 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,557 and my wife and I in the back. 450 00:18:21,226 --> 00:18:23,728 It was just-- I don't know how that happened. 451 00:18:23,770 --> 00:18:25,146 And we go. It's raining out. 452 00:18:26,064 --> 00:18:27,899 It was-- uh, it was April, so it wasn't-- 453 00:18:27,941 --> 00:18:29,859 it was, like, 7:30, so the sun was down at that point 454 00:18:29,901 --> 00:18:31,361 so it was dark 455 00:18:31,402 --> 00:18:33,404 and I end up behind someone who's going kind of slow 456 00:18:33,446 --> 00:18:34,614 and I end up in the fast lane. 457 00:18:34,656 --> 00:18:35,907 "Man, what the hell, I want to go down. 458 00:18:35,949 --> 00:18:37,408 I want to get to this restaurant. 459 00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:39,035 I want to have a good time with my wife and my friends." 460 00:18:39,077 --> 00:18:40,745 And so I... 461 00:18:41,287 --> 00:18:42,372 pass him on the right. 462 00:18:43,248 --> 00:18:44,916 And as I'm passing him on the right, 463 00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:46,042 well, it was wet... 464 00:18:46,876 --> 00:18:49,212 and I made this slight maneuver with the wheel, 465 00:18:49,254 --> 00:18:51,589 and I completely lose control of my truck. 466 00:18:52,131 --> 00:18:53,675 We spin a bunch of times 467 00:18:53,716 --> 00:18:56,135 and the only thing I can honestly remember 468 00:18:56,177 --> 00:18:57,762 is the screams. 469 00:18:59,681 --> 00:19:00,765 And... 470 00:19:02,475 --> 00:19:03,726 in particular, Heather's scream. 471 00:19:05,812 --> 00:19:08,314 The noise, the sound, the-- the smell. 472 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,525 I can... 473 00:19:11,568 --> 00:19:13,820 distinctly remember the noise of their-- 474 00:19:13,862 --> 00:19:16,531 us losing control of that car and going backwards in the dirt. 475 00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:20,201 I remember thinking that we're just gonna stop 476 00:19:20,243 --> 00:19:21,786 and this is it. 477 00:19:21,828 --> 00:19:23,162 We spun out. Let's continue on our way. 478 00:19:24,372 --> 00:19:26,249 But, as we know, we didn't do that. 479 00:19:26,291 --> 00:19:27,667 So I got knocked out. 480 00:19:27,709 --> 00:19:29,294 I took out the driver's window, 481 00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:31,713 driver's side window, uh, with my head. 482 00:19:32,297 --> 00:19:34,215 I remember waking up at one point 483 00:19:34,257 --> 00:19:36,342 not knowing where I was, not knowing who I was. 484 00:19:36,384 --> 00:19:38,469 I looked back and I saw 485 00:19:38,511 --> 00:19:41,055 the love of my life's face, the mother of my children, 486 00:19:41,097 --> 00:19:42,432 and I knew exactly... 487 00:19:43,558 --> 00:19:45,143 where she was and it wasn't here. 488 00:19:45,184 --> 00:19:46,644 I think when I knew... 489 00:19:50,106 --> 00:19:52,233 that it was terrible 490 00:19:52,275 --> 00:19:55,236 was when I watched her pupils dilate. 491 00:19:56,321 --> 00:19:58,907 Then I knew it was terrible. 492 00:19:59,824 --> 00:20:02,994 We had hit a tree going backwards 493 00:20:03,036 --> 00:20:04,746 at about 60 miles an hour. 494 00:20:04,787 --> 00:20:06,539 Came through the cab, 495 00:20:06,581 --> 00:20:08,166 the rear of the cab of the truck, and struck Heather 496 00:20:08,207 --> 00:20:10,126 in the back of the head, snapping her brain stem. 497 00:20:10,168 --> 00:20:13,421 Of course, it seems like forever waiting in the car, waiting. 498 00:20:13,463 --> 00:20:14,964 Now, I know what they-- After that point, 499 00:20:15,006 --> 00:20:16,507 I knew what they meant by, 500 00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:18,509 "What took you so long to get there?" 501 00:20:18,551 --> 00:20:20,929 Um, but it couldn't have been any more than a few minutes, 502 00:20:20,970 --> 00:20:24,474 Lancaster fire was on scene and, you know, of course, 503 00:20:24,515 --> 00:20:27,268 we knew-- everybody knew each other back then. 504 00:20:27,310 --> 00:20:28,895 You know what I mean, I knew the guy, 505 00:20:28,937 --> 00:20:31,064 the first Lancaster firefighter on scene 506 00:20:31,105 --> 00:20:32,732 was a good friend of mine, 507 00:20:32,774 --> 00:20:35,026 you know, and looking at his face, 508 00:20:35,068 --> 00:20:36,152 he knew it was real, too. 509 00:20:37,195 --> 00:20:39,405 They were transported to UMass in Worcester 510 00:20:39,447 --> 00:20:42,367 and my wife and I went to Clinton Hospital. 511 00:20:43,326 --> 00:20:45,411 And we-- She was treated and released, 512 00:20:45,453 --> 00:20:47,205 and we went to Worcester to see Keith and Heather, 513 00:20:47,246 --> 00:20:49,582 and I remember Keith's stepdad 514 00:20:49,624 --> 00:20:52,085 coming out and telling us what was going on. 515 00:20:53,586 --> 00:20:55,546 We knew Keith was still in the trauma room at UMass 516 00:20:55,588 --> 00:20:57,757 being assessed, but he was okay 517 00:20:57,799 --> 00:20:59,842 and then we found out that Heather didn't make it. 518 00:21:00,802 --> 00:21:01,886 But... 519 00:21:03,429 --> 00:21:05,098 I guess, you know, thinking about it, 520 00:21:05,139 --> 00:21:08,059 I-- I already knew that in a way, you know? 521 00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:09,268 But... 522 00:21:10,144 --> 00:21:12,772 They took her to the hospital, they put her on life support, 523 00:21:12,814 --> 00:21:14,607 and that Saturday, 524 00:21:14,649 --> 00:21:16,901 um, we pulled the plug. 525 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,280 And that wasn't even the worst part of that weekend. 526 00:21:24,742 --> 00:21:26,995 It was the beginning 527 00:21:27,036 --> 00:21:28,496 of the worst weekend of my life... 528 00:21:30,081 --> 00:21:31,541 because I then had to go home 529 00:21:31,582 --> 00:21:34,002 after I got cleared out of the ICU 530 00:21:34,043 --> 00:21:35,878 from UMass, leaving my... 531 00:21:37,088 --> 00:21:39,173 my wife on a bed. 532 00:21:40,216 --> 00:21:41,634 I had to go home and tell her kids 533 00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:43,011 that mommy wasn't coming home. 534 00:21:44,679 --> 00:21:46,639 My ten-month-old daughter, 535 00:21:46,681 --> 00:21:47,765 who couldn't even speak yet... 536 00:21:48,975 --> 00:21:51,644 my just over two-year-old son. 537 00:21:51,686 --> 00:21:54,188 And so I go to my grandmother's house, 538 00:21:54,230 --> 00:21:56,983 and I sit in my uncle's bedroom 539 00:21:57,025 --> 00:21:58,985 with my children, 540 00:21:59,027 --> 00:22:01,070 and before I can even get it out of my mouth, 541 00:22:01,112 --> 00:22:02,864 before I can even tell my kids, 542 00:22:02,905 --> 00:22:05,324 "Daddy's really sorry, but Mommy, 543 00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:06,993 Mommy's gone," before I can even do it, 544 00:22:07,035 --> 00:22:08,244 my son goes, "Where's Mommy?" 545 00:22:10,872 --> 00:22:11,956 I didn't cry. 546 00:22:12,832 --> 00:22:14,333 I didn't shed one tear that day. 547 00:22:15,918 --> 00:22:17,962 I decided right there my soul was gone. 548 00:22:18,004 --> 00:22:20,506 The rest of the damage had been done 549 00:22:20,548 --> 00:22:23,051 and I was never going to show emotion again. 550 00:22:25,261 --> 00:22:26,888 And I did a really good job of it. 551 00:22:29,307 --> 00:22:32,101 And I never actually told my kids their mother was gone. 552 00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:33,561 I didn't have to. 553 00:22:33,603 --> 00:22:34,604 They knew because then they were crying. 554 00:22:35,354 --> 00:22:37,023 There were seven people in that house, 555 00:22:37,065 --> 00:22:38,357 they were all crying, but I was the only one 556 00:22:38,399 --> 00:22:40,485 that was completely dry-faced. 557 00:22:49,786 --> 00:22:50,870 It was hell. 558 00:23:01,047 --> 00:23:03,257 [Riggle] In Townsend and across the country, 559 00:23:03,299 --> 00:23:05,843 the government's attempts to encourage dialogue 560 00:23:05,885 --> 00:23:08,721 after first responders experience trauma 561 00:23:08,763 --> 00:23:10,723 has historically centered around 562 00:23:10,765 --> 00:23:13,267 critical incident stress debriefings. 563 00:23:15,645 --> 00:23:18,272 {\an8}So, now you've got critical incident stress debriefings 564 00:23:18,314 --> 00:23:20,775 {\an8}and then you've got, um, a new one, 565 00:23:20,817 --> 00:23:22,527 {\an8}critical incident stress managements, 566 00:23:22,568 --> 00:23:25,363 {\an8}and you've got some that are supposed to occur 567 00:23:25,404 --> 00:23:27,240 {\an8}immediately right after the event 568 00:23:27,281 --> 00:23:28,783 {\an8}and some that should occur with, you know, no sooner 569 00:23:28,825 --> 00:23:30,952 {\an8}than 48 hours after the event, 570 00:23:30,993 --> 00:23:34,372 {\an8}and hopefully they're getting better now 571 00:23:34,413 --> 00:23:37,917 {\an8}because historically, it was somebody from dispatch... 572 00:23:38,876 --> 00:23:41,587 {\an8}or it was one of the supervisors 573 00:23:41,629 --> 00:23:43,673 {\an8}who was on duty that day 574 00:23:43,714 --> 00:23:47,135 {\an8}who, honestly, can barely handle a call 575 00:23:47,176 --> 00:23:48,636 {\an8}much less a group, 576 00:23:48,678 --> 00:23:51,264 {\an8}um, that really shouldn't be doing this 577 00:23:51,305 --> 00:23:52,682 {\an8}'cause you can do more harm than good. 578 00:23:53,474 --> 00:23:54,851 And they probably did. 579 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,563 And I think what-- sort of this insidious 580 00:23:58,604 --> 00:24:00,731 behind-the-scenes thing that nobody really understood 581 00:24:00,773 --> 00:24:03,151 back then was, "Oh, are you going 582 00:24:03,192 --> 00:24:05,319 to the critical incident stress debriefing or whatever?" 583 00:24:05,361 --> 00:24:06,779 And there's always some-- 584 00:24:08,197 --> 00:24:10,950 somebody behind the scenes who is, you know, the official, 585 00:24:10,992 --> 00:24:12,869 old-school representative of the crowd who's like, 586 00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:14,453 "Oh, you gonna go in there and share some feelings? 587 00:24:15,037 --> 00:24:16,455 Yeah, don't trip over in your feelings in there." 588 00:24:17,081 --> 00:24:19,667 And so as the new people in the group, you're thinking, 589 00:24:19,709 --> 00:24:20,877 "All right, that's my role model. 590 00:24:20,918 --> 00:24:22,003 That's what I got to be." 591 00:24:22,962 --> 00:24:25,173 That-- that-- that stigma right there, 592 00:24:25,214 --> 00:24:26,632 that's a big part of it, that's a huge 593 00:24:26,674 --> 00:24:28,426 puzzle piece right in the middle. 594 00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:30,595 In certain parts of my career it wasn't boasted 595 00:24:30,636 --> 00:24:32,722 that we had those meetings. 596 00:24:33,681 --> 00:24:34,891 It was boasted that, 597 00:24:34,932 --> 00:24:37,268 "Hey, we got through that." 598 00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:39,353 We had a guy, um, 599 00:24:39,395 --> 00:24:40,479 a gentleman that I worked with. 600 00:24:40,521 --> 00:24:41,898 He was a police officer, 601 00:24:41,939 --> 00:24:43,316 uh, in the town that I worked in, 602 00:24:43,357 --> 00:24:45,776 and he went to his hometown 603 00:24:45,818 --> 00:24:49,280 and, uh, for a friend's funeral and he was murdered. 604 00:24:50,656 --> 00:24:53,576 The boast was, "Hey, not one of us 605 00:24:53,618 --> 00:24:54,744 had to talk to somebody. 606 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,455 Not one of us. We're all good." 607 00:24:57,496 --> 00:24:59,248 After a bad call, we'd, you know, 608 00:24:59,290 --> 00:25:00,917 obviously go back to the station, get the truck 609 00:25:00,958 --> 00:25:03,127 back in service, and while we were doing stuff 610 00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:05,296 with the truck and, you know, cleaning up, 611 00:25:05,338 --> 00:25:07,757 we'd talk about, "Hey, look, you remember that guy? 612 00:25:07,798 --> 00:25:10,927 He had, you know, his foot was up here and this and that." 613 00:25:10,968 --> 00:25:14,347 Um, yeah, so you definitely talk about it 614 00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:16,390 with all the guys on the truck in the station, 615 00:25:16,432 --> 00:25:20,978 um, and after some really nasty ones, 616 00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:24,440 the-- the chief would have people come in after, 617 00:25:24,482 --> 00:25:26,400 and, you know, if you wanted to go, 618 00:25:26,442 --> 00:25:28,110 you could go, if not, no big deal, 619 00:25:28,152 --> 00:25:31,697 and you go sit around and just-- 620 00:25:31,739 --> 00:25:32,782 You talk about it. 621 00:25:33,658 --> 00:25:35,826 You could talk about what you saw or you don't even 622 00:25:35,868 --> 00:25:38,746 have to talk about it, just listen to the other people, 623 00:25:38,788 --> 00:25:41,082 and that was-- that was pretty much it, you know? 624 00:25:41,123 --> 00:25:43,251 It was, like, in and out in less than an hour. 625 00:25:43,793 --> 00:25:46,587 I didn't think that really did much 626 00:25:46,629 --> 00:25:49,131 for anybody, but, you know, 627 00:25:49,173 --> 00:25:52,843 I-- I feel being down in the engine bay 628 00:25:52,885 --> 00:25:54,804 working on the truck, getting it back in service 629 00:25:54,845 --> 00:25:57,306 or whatever, talking with all the guys 630 00:25:57,348 --> 00:25:59,934 was-- worked better, I think. 631 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:03,562 Uh, over the years I went to several, uh, 632 00:26:03,604 --> 00:26:05,856 critical incident stress debriefings, um... 633 00:26:07,275 --> 00:26:10,528 but, no, most of it is handled at the firehouse. 634 00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:13,114 {\an8}In the fire service, we always are together 635 00:26:13,155 --> 00:26:16,909 {\an8}as companies, or in EMTs, you're always with a crew. 636 00:26:16,951 --> 00:26:19,662 {\an8}We did debrief after the call in the station. 637 00:26:20,621 --> 00:26:23,916 {\an8}Cup of coffee in the back, we call it tailboard therapy, 638 00:26:23,958 --> 00:26:25,459 {\an8}sitting on the back of the fire engine, 639 00:26:25,501 --> 00:26:27,753 {\an8}back of the ambulance discussing it. 640 00:26:27,795 --> 00:26:29,797 And you're always-- Older guys, uh, 641 00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:31,966 guys that have been around looking after the younger guys, 642 00:26:32,008 --> 00:26:33,384 "How do you feel?" 643 00:26:33,426 --> 00:26:34,885 You know, with, you know, uh, 644 00:26:34,927 --> 00:26:36,846 and debriefing without even knowing 645 00:26:36,887 --> 00:26:38,431 early on what we were doing. 646 00:26:38,889 --> 00:26:40,099 Let's talk about it. 647 00:26:40,141 --> 00:26:41,350 {\an8}Let's figure it out, you know? 648 00:26:41,392 --> 00:26:43,102 {\an8}If you need help, ask for it. 649 00:26:44,395 --> 00:26:46,897 {\an8}You know, like, it has to be offered. 650 00:26:46,939 --> 00:26:48,733 {\an8}You know what I mean, you don't want to 651 00:26:48,774 --> 00:26:52,069 {\an8}end your career early because of stuff like this. 652 00:26:52,111 --> 00:26:53,195 {\an8}[interviewer] 653 00:26:58,117 --> 00:27:00,411 Uh, evolved over the-- Well... 654 00:27:02,496 --> 00:27:04,957 you know, like I said, you can solve world problems 655 00:27:04,999 --> 00:27:06,709 at a firehouse table. 656 00:27:06,751 --> 00:27:07,960 At least that's what you're always told, right? 657 00:27:08,002 --> 00:27:09,837 But, no, I think, you know, 658 00:27:09,879 --> 00:27:12,465 being on shift with the same people all the time, 659 00:27:12,506 --> 00:27:14,091 you become a family. 660 00:27:14,133 --> 00:27:15,217 You know, it's your-- 661 00:27:16,344 --> 00:27:17,887 You know, your family away from-- 662 00:27:17,928 --> 00:27:19,513 Your home away from home is the firehouse. 663 00:27:20,222 --> 00:27:22,892 So, you try to, you know, 664 00:27:22,933 --> 00:27:24,935 personal problems, firehouse problems, anything, 665 00:27:24,977 --> 00:27:26,270 that's where it gets solved. 666 00:27:26,312 --> 00:27:27,396 Hopefully. 667 00:27:28,147 --> 00:27:30,066 [Riggle] Unfortunately, without professional 668 00:27:30,107 --> 00:27:32,443 mental health care, first responders are often 669 00:27:32,485 --> 00:27:35,529 left to self-diagnose and self-care, 670 00:27:35,571 --> 00:27:37,490 including the complicated illness 671 00:27:37,531 --> 00:27:39,617 known as post-traumatic stress disorder. 672 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,164 {\an8}So, PTSD that we think of when you, you know, 673 00:27:45,206 --> 00:27:46,874 {\an8}it's a-- Lot of people joke about it, like, 674 00:27:46,916 --> 00:27:48,459 {\an8}"Oh, I have PTSD from this, 675 00:27:48,501 --> 00:27:50,002 {\an8}was sitting in traffic for whatever," 676 00:27:50,044 --> 00:27:51,462 {\an8}we make these jokes. 677 00:27:51,504 --> 00:27:55,132 {\an8}Um, simple PTSD is, 678 00:27:55,174 --> 00:27:56,926 {\an8}you have an isolated incident. 679 00:27:56,967 --> 00:28:00,304 The complex PTSD is reoccurring trauma response, 680 00:28:00,346 --> 00:28:04,475 so every negative situation then becomes a trauma 681 00:28:04,517 --> 00:28:07,978 as opposed to, "The gas pump just doesn't work today." 682 00:28:08,020 --> 00:28:10,022 It becomes, "It didn't work because of this, 683 00:28:10,064 --> 00:28:11,482 because of that, da, da, da, da, da," 684 00:28:11,524 --> 00:28:13,692 and it just spirals out of control. 685 00:28:13,734 --> 00:28:16,278 And it's very challenging 686 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,239 'cause you have to retrain your brain. 687 00:28:18,739 --> 00:28:22,243 You have to convince yourself you're okay. 688 00:28:22,284 --> 00:28:23,702 You have to convince yourself 689 00:28:23,744 --> 00:28:26,122 that not everything is a trauma, 690 00:28:26,163 --> 00:28:28,040 and it's a lot of work. 691 00:28:28,582 --> 00:28:31,794 You know, fixing this stuff, it's-- it's like, you know... 692 00:28:32,753 --> 00:28:35,256 when you get diagnosed with cancer 693 00:28:35,297 --> 00:28:37,466 and they always sort of lateral PTSD 694 00:28:37,508 --> 00:28:39,218 with-- with cancer 695 00:28:39,260 --> 00:28:43,013 um, because cancer doesn't necessarily go away. 696 00:28:43,055 --> 00:28:44,598 It can go into remission, 697 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,933 but you're always still getting screened, 698 00:28:45,975 --> 00:28:47,518 you're still getting checked. 699 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,770 You know, why would you expect with PTSD, 700 00:28:49,812 --> 00:28:53,482 with mental health issues that you're going to go away 701 00:28:53,524 --> 00:28:56,402 for 24 hours and, "Cool, you don't need chemo, 702 00:28:56,444 --> 00:28:58,112 you don't need radiation, like, you're good." 703 00:28:58,571 --> 00:29:00,156 It's not how it works. 704 00:29:00,197 --> 00:29:02,616 When you think of PTSD, you think military. 705 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,703 You know, a guy comes back from wherever he was 706 00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:07,913 and he has nightmares, doesn't sleep, anger. 707 00:29:08,497 --> 00:29:11,125 That's all-- always been on the military side of that. 708 00:29:11,167 --> 00:29:14,211 Now, it's slowly, very slowly creeping into, 709 00:29:14,253 --> 00:29:15,796 uh, actually the first responders 710 00:29:15,838 --> 00:29:17,214 having the problems as well. 711 00:29:17,256 --> 00:29:18,382 You know, I've never actually 712 00:29:18,424 --> 00:29:20,259 been diagnosed with PTSD, 713 00:29:20,301 --> 00:29:22,678 but I've been around this long enough to know that, 714 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,265 yes, I have PTSD from-- from it. 715 00:29:26,307 --> 00:29:27,725 You know, there's a lot of, uh... 716 00:29:28,767 --> 00:29:31,687 signs and symptoms of PTS and PTSD 717 00:29:31,729 --> 00:29:34,773 that people present over the years, 718 00:29:34,815 --> 00:29:37,318 and reading up on it and doing the research on it 719 00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:38,486 and stuff like that, you just... 720 00:29:40,529 --> 00:29:42,573 I mean, I-- I don't know if I have it. 721 00:29:42,615 --> 00:29:44,742 I'm kind of afraid to be formally diagnosed with it, 722 00:29:44,783 --> 00:29:45,868 to be honest with you, but... 723 00:29:46,869 --> 00:29:49,413 {\an8}I do have a disability through the military 724 00:29:49,455 --> 00:29:51,957 {\an8}for PTSD, uh, relating to... 725 00:29:53,042 --> 00:29:54,835 {\an8}things that have been gone through. 726 00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:56,629 {\an8}It's more like a self-help. 727 00:29:56,670 --> 00:29:59,507 The VA is in a difficult situation because they say, 728 00:29:59,548 --> 00:30:02,593 "All right, here's your problem, here's your check." 729 00:30:02,635 --> 00:30:05,721 And I was actually waiting for some therapy, 730 00:30:05,763 --> 00:30:07,848 but now that I realize that a lot of times 731 00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:09,058 you have to help yourself. 732 00:30:09,099 --> 00:30:11,393 For me, combat 733 00:30:11,435 --> 00:30:13,646 was very difficult. 734 00:30:13,687 --> 00:30:15,272 Trying times, I didn't have my wife, 735 00:30:15,314 --> 00:30:17,024 I didn't have the support group, 736 00:30:17,066 --> 00:30:19,568 and it kind of brings back why you do these things. 737 00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:21,487 It-- it's not 738 00:30:21,529 --> 00:30:24,323 for God and country 739 00:30:24,365 --> 00:30:26,033 and foreign policy 740 00:30:26,075 --> 00:30:28,202 and whoever is riding the ship at that time. 741 00:30:28,244 --> 00:30:30,412 Uh, it's for the people you work with. 742 00:30:30,454 --> 00:30:32,331 Your left and right, whoever's there. 743 00:30:32,373 --> 00:30:33,916 Even in the medical field, 744 00:30:33,958 --> 00:30:36,210 I think my lowest moment 745 00:30:36,252 --> 00:30:38,128 during COVID early on 746 00:30:38,170 --> 00:30:40,214 is when we were driving in to work, 747 00:30:40,256 --> 00:30:41,882 and it was like the disaster movie. 748 00:30:41,924 --> 00:30:43,634 Everybody was at home collecting a check, 749 00:30:43,676 --> 00:30:46,929 unemployment, uh, Amazon deliveries coming in. 750 00:30:46,971 --> 00:30:48,931 I was driving over 100 miles an hour 751 00:30:48,973 --> 00:30:50,724 going to work and hoping, 752 00:30:50,766 --> 00:30:52,768 praying, uh, that a state trooper 753 00:30:52,810 --> 00:30:54,770 would pull me over, arrest me, and throw me into jail 754 00:30:54,812 --> 00:30:56,063 so I didn't have to go to work. 755 00:30:56,522 --> 00:30:58,816 And the reason 756 00:30:58,857 --> 00:31:01,026 I was going to work is because I knew 757 00:31:01,068 --> 00:31:03,779 my guys and girls that, at the firehouse, 758 00:31:03,821 --> 00:31:05,281 were going to work as well, 759 00:31:05,322 --> 00:31:07,116 and that's why we showed up every day. 760 00:31:07,157 --> 00:31:09,577 I tried to avoid that diagnosis 761 00:31:09,618 --> 00:31:11,912 for a very, very long time 'cause I grew up in a time 762 00:31:11,954 --> 00:31:14,206 where you don't talk about these things. 763 00:31:14,248 --> 00:31:17,418 Um, I had to have a physical, 764 00:31:17,459 --> 00:31:20,254 and my blood pressure was through the roof. 765 00:31:20,296 --> 00:31:22,089 Like, the nurse was like... 766 00:31:23,215 --> 00:31:24,842 "You're having a heart attack," and I was like, 767 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:27,469 "I'm just having-- I just need a minute, 768 00:31:27,511 --> 00:31:29,138 I'm having a panic attack. 769 00:31:29,179 --> 00:31:30,556 I don't do well in doctors' offices anymore." 770 00:31:31,348 --> 00:31:34,435 And, um, they kind of just kept doing what they were doing 771 00:31:34,476 --> 00:31:36,645 to the point where I had to scream, like, 772 00:31:36,687 --> 00:31:38,355 "Get the fuck away from me. 773 00:31:38,397 --> 00:31:39,940 Get out, I just need two minutes. 774 00:31:39,982 --> 00:31:41,942 Give me a-- give me a fucking break." 775 00:31:41,984 --> 00:31:43,944 And they took off out of the room 776 00:31:43,986 --> 00:31:45,946 and they gave me a few minutes, 777 00:31:45,988 --> 00:31:48,157 and my doctor came in and she's like, 778 00:31:48,198 --> 00:31:50,659 "I have another person here that wants to see you, uh, 779 00:31:50,701 --> 00:31:52,119 talk to you for a minute, do you mind?" 780 00:31:52,161 --> 00:31:53,746 I said, "No problem." 781 00:31:53,787 --> 00:31:55,372 A woman came around the corner and said, 782 00:31:55,414 --> 00:31:57,916 "I'm doctor so and so, you have PTSD. 783 00:31:57,958 --> 00:31:59,627 Do you want to deal with it?" 784 00:31:59,668 --> 00:32:01,337 And my first response was, "Well, it depends. 785 00:32:01,378 --> 00:32:02,713 Is that written down anywhere?" 786 00:32:03,631 --> 00:32:05,382 She's like, "Oh, yeah, there's gonna be 787 00:32:05,424 --> 00:32:07,426 a lot of documentation about what just happened." 788 00:32:07,468 --> 00:32:09,595 I was officially diagnosed when I was 22 789 00:32:09,637 --> 00:32:12,264 when I got out of the Marines, um, 790 00:32:12,306 --> 00:32:15,017 about two months after I got home from my third deployment, 791 00:32:15,059 --> 00:32:16,935 and I-- I thought it was bullshit. 792 00:32:16,977 --> 00:32:19,521 You know, I-- I didn't agree with it, 793 00:32:19,563 --> 00:32:22,650 but I understood that they basically just 794 00:32:22,691 --> 00:32:25,903 gave me and all my friends that diagnosis 'cause-- 795 00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:27,821 More of a liability thing, I thought, you know? 796 00:32:28,364 --> 00:32:32,034 I knew that my friends and I were different. 797 00:32:32,076 --> 00:32:33,827 It was very hard fitting in 798 00:32:33,869 --> 00:32:35,120 after getting out and coming home 799 00:32:35,162 --> 00:32:37,623 from those types of experiences, 800 00:32:37,665 --> 00:32:40,501 but I had no idea it was a problem. 801 00:32:40,542 --> 00:32:43,045 I had no idea that there were symptoms. 802 00:32:43,087 --> 00:32:45,881 You know, um, from my perspective, 803 00:32:45,923 --> 00:32:47,966 I was normal and I was justified 804 00:32:48,008 --> 00:32:50,386 in the way I viewed the world and how I acted, 805 00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:52,096 and, you know, only looking back now 806 00:32:52,137 --> 00:32:55,849 do I realize how messed up I was, so... 807 00:32:55,891 --> 00:32:59,061 And we had to go see a shrink who was a Navy doc 808 00:32:59,103 --> 00:33:03,273 and, um, we-- I was told, we were all told, 809 00:33:03,315 --> 00:33:06,193 "Don't be honest, don't tell them the truth 810 00:33:06,235 --> 00:33:08,153 because if you do, you're not going home," 811 00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,240 because they knew we were fucked up. 812 00:33:11,281 --> 00:33:14,034 They knew that our answers would keep us there, 813 00:33:14,076 --> 00:33:16,620 that we probably wouldn't get out, that we'd be sent 814 00:33:16,662 --> 00:33:18,247 to a hospital or whatever. 815 00:33:18,288 --> 00:33:19,832 I know plenty of people who were 816 00:33:19,873 --> 00:33:21,458 restricted to the barracks 817 00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,961 who were never the same, who weren't allowed 818 00:33:24,002 --> 00:33:26,422 to go on a third deployment because they told the truth, 819 00:33:26,463 --> 00:33:28,465 'cause they were honest about how they felt 820 00:33:28,507 --> 00:33:30,175 about the drinking every day. 821 00:33:30,634 --> 00:33:32,094 Everyone that was there was an alcoholic. 822 00:33:32,136 --> 00:33:33,345 Everyone. 823 00:33:33,387 --> 00:33:35,013 There's no coping mechanisms. 824 00:33:35,055 --> 00:33:36,765 There's no therapy, there's no... 825 00:33:38,058 --> 00:33:39,852 compassion, there's no processing. 826 00:33:39,893 --> 00:33:42,229 It's just you do it and if you don't do it, 827 00:33:42,271 --> 00:33:44,231 you're weak, and nobody wants to be weak, 828 00:33:44,273 --> 00:33:45,649 so you suck it up and you do it. 829 00:33:46,859 --> 00:33:49,069 [Riggle] Coping is only made more difficult 830 00:33:49,111 --> 00:33:52,239 for first responders in that their day-to-day lives 831 00:33:52,281 --> 00:33:54,992 are consistently met with the triggers 832 00:33:55,033 --> 00:33:56,827 they need to avoid. 833 00:33:56,869 --> 00:33:59,037 [Jen] My husband was a police officer for 15 years. 834 00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:01,790 He would communicate to me about triggers 835 00:34:01,832 --> 00:34:04,793 that he was experiencing, to a-- you know, due to his PTSD. 836 00:34:05,294 --> 00:34:09,339 {\an8}Um, for example, um, 837 00:34:09,381 --> 00:34:12,926 {\an8}he didn't have a mouth guard at one infant call, 838 00:34:12,968 --> 00:34:15,596 {\an8}and so had to perform CPR on an infant 839 00:34:15,637 --> 00:34:19,141 {\an8}who had, um, formula on his mouth 840 00:34:19,183 --> 00:34:23,187 {\an8}and the formula, um, reminded him of bananas 841 00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:26,273 {\an8}for some reason, so as a family, we didn't have bananas 842 00:34:26,315 --> 00:34:28,233 {\an8}in our house for years. 843 00:34:28,275 --> 00:34:31,570 And 'cause I just-- I was doing my best to protect Kevin 844 00:34:31,612 --> 00:34:35,365 and prevent him from-- from having those flashbacks. 845 00:34:35,407 --> 00:34:38,869 It was a housefire in which, uh, two children got killed. 846 00:34:39,578 --> 00:34:41,330 There were three children in the house. 847 00:34:41,371 --> 00:34:44,833 Uh, I was the lucky or unlucky, however you want it, 848 00:34:44,875 --> 00:34:47,419 I found all three kids and I pulled the only one 849 00:34:47,461 --> 00:34:49,296 that survived out myself. 850 00:34:49,338 --> 00:34:53,217 Probably over the last four or five years, you know, 851 00:34:53,258 --> 00:34:55,219 a week or so before and a week or so after 852 00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:58,180 I would get really depressed because the brain was like, 853 00:34:58,222 --> 00:35:00,182 "Hey, yeah, 854 00:35:00,224 --> 00:35:03,101 20-odd years ago, this is what you were doing, 855 00:35:03,143 --> 00:35:04,478 and this is what you did." 856 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,647 And that I can recall 857 00:35:06,688 --> 00:35:09,149 in very, very graphic detail 858 00:35:10,067 --> 00:35:11,693 everything that happened 859 00:35:11,735 --> 00:35:13,237 from the time I got off the fire engine 860 00:35:13,278 --> 00:35:14,822 till the time the call was done. 861 00:35:15,447 --> 00:35:17,533 You know, and then-- And that's one I've actually 862 00:35:17,574 --> 00:35:21,286 had flashbacks on that one 863 00:35:21,328 --> 00:35:24,915 in the-- in the past, and that's terrifying. 864 00:35:24,957 --> 00:35:27,292 When I went back, I had just gotten 865 00:35:27,334 --> 00:35:29,044 in a bad accident where my wife was killed, 866 00:35:29,086 --> 00:35:30,838 and right off the bat, I'm doing, like, 867 00:35:30,879 --> 00:35:34,007 more accidents per shift than I had ever done in my life. 868 00:35:34,550 --> 00:35:37,052 And we get to this accident and there was a fatality 869 00:35:37,094 --> 00:35:39,054 in the car and the wife-- 870 00:35:39,096 --> 00:35:40,889 It ended up being a husband and wife, 871 00:35:40,931 --> 00:35:43,475 uh, the wife was, uh, was the one that was alive. 872 00:35:44,518 --> 00:35:47,145 And so we get directed to go past it to the person that, 873 00:35:47,187 --> 00:35:48,438 come to find what caused the accident, 874 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:49,648 which was a drunk driver. 875 00:35:50,190 --> 00:35:51,775 And we pull up and the cops got the guy 876 00:35:51,817 --> 00:35:53,569 and I didn't realize it was a drunk thing 877 00:35:53,610 --> 00:35:55,153 until I opened the door and I could smell the booze. 878 00:35:56,530 --> 00:35:57,948 And he looked right at me and he goes, 879 00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:59,199 "I hope they're all right." 880 00:35:59,783 --> 00:36:01,869 And I went, "I knew the person what-- who was dead," 881 00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:06,248 and I had to be tackled to the ground by four cops 882 00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:08,458 'cause I just lost it. 883 00:36:10,711 --> 00:36:12,462 [Brian Harkins] Uh, I just had back-to-back calls 884 00:36:12,504 --> 00:36:13,755 that sent me over the edge. 885 00:36:14,756 --> 00:36:16,466 {\an8}The last one involved a two-year-old, 886 00:36:16,508 --> 00:36:19,428 {\an8}I will spare the details, but it, uh, I broke. 887 00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:21,763 Sorry. 888 00:36:22,681 --> 00:36:23,765 [sighs] 889 00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:28,353 Sorry. 890 00:36:34,651 --> 00:36:36,862 [somber piano melody plays] 891 00:36:38,113 --> 00:36:39,197 I just need a second. 892 00:37:03,764 --> 00:37:05,182 {\an8}It's been a while since I talked about it. 893 00:37:05,223 --> 00:37:06,308 {\an8}[interviewer] 894 00:37:10,562 --> 00:37:12,272 {\an8}No, I think it's important for people to know. 895 00:37:13,231 --> 00:37:14,566 Um... 896 00:37:16,568 --> 00:37:18,195 I quit my job over the phone. 897 00:37:18,779 --> 00:37:20,364 The chief came out and, um... 898 00:37:21,531 --> 00:37:23,659 actually got me into a program, at the leader program 899 00:37:23,700 --> 00:37:26,203 at McLean's, and since then 900 00:37:26,244 --> 00:37:28,288 I've been on the other side of-- of giving back the help 901 00:37:28,330 --> 00:37:29,790 so people don't wind up like I did. 902 00:37:31,583 --> 00:37:32,668 Sorry. 903 00:37:37,089 --> 00:37:38,757 Sorry, it's been a while since I talked about that. 904 00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:51,478 [Riggle] Without the knowledge of 905 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,230 and access to proper care, 906 00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:56,149 first responders often turn to quick fixes, 907 00:37:56,191 --> 00:37:58,443 vices that only make matters worse. 908 00:37:59,027 --> 00:38:00,487 [sighs] 909 00:38:00,529 --> 00:38:01,780 Um... 910 00:38:02,823 --> 00:38:05,534 I tried to forget it as much as I could, 911 00:38:05,575 --> 00:38:07,536 and I used to drink, I-- 912 00:38:07,577 --> 00:38:09,287 I was a pretty good drinker, 913 00:38:09,329 --> 00:38:11,623 so I think that's how I dealt with it. 914 00:38:12,332 --> 00:38:14,292 Um, and, you know, 915 00:38:14,334 --> 00:38:17,170 obviously talking with the guys and stuff helped a little bit, 916 00:38:17,212 --> 00:38:20,173 but I think I just put it in the back of the brain 917 00:38:20,215 --> 00:38:22,884 and keep moving on and deal with the next thing. 918 00:38:23,552 --> 00:38:26,138 I think you try, 919 00:38:26,179 --> 00:38:27,556 you know, you try to forget about it, 920 00:38:27,597 --> 00:38:29,933 but it-- I don't-- you never do. 921 00:38:29,975 --> 00:38:31,977 You never really do, um... 922 00:38:33,228 --> 00:38:36,023 and eventually it-- it wears on you, 923 00:38:36,064 --> 00:38:38,692 and it gets to the point where you-- 924 00:38:38,734 --> 00:38:40,360 you do something, you know? 925 00:38:40,402 --> 00:38:42,654 Like-- like, as I started drinking, um... 926 00:38:43,655 --> 00:38:45,866 and that's how I dealt with it. 927 00:38:45,907 --> 00:38:47,909 I don't-- I don't consider myself an addict, 928 00:38:47,951 --> 00:38:49,578 I don't have an addictive personality, 929 00:38:49,619 --> 00:38:52,622 but I abused the shit out of pills and booze. 930 00:38:52,664 --> 00:38:54,666 I would show up to work drunk. I would drink on the job. 931 00:38:55,876 --> 00:38:57,586 I would go out to the bar 932 00:38:57,627 --> 00:38:59,880 right down the street from the ambulance bay, 933 00:38:59,921 --> 00:39:01,339 get hammered, 934 00:39:01,381 --> 00:39:02,340 drink until 3:00 in the morning, 935 00:39:02,382 --> 00:39:03,467 be back on shift at 7:00. 936 00:39:04,509 --> 00:39:05,719 Noon time I'd be hitting something 937 00:39:05,761 --> 00:39:07,262 to keep you through the day. 938 00:39:07,304 --> 00:39:10,015 Pop some pills, not feeling anything. 939 00:39:10,057 --> 00:39:11,933 I drank a lot, I drank every day. 940 00:39:11,975 --> 00:39:13,393 Um, I was always... 941 00:39:14,644 --> 00:39:16,563 very hesitant about alcohol 942 00:39:16,605 --> 00:39:18,231 because my father is an alcoholic, 943 00:39:18,273 --> 00:39:21,401 and, uh, I saw how it destroyed his life. 944 00:39:22,736 --> 00:39:24,279 And I knew-- 945 00:39:24,321 --> 00:39:25,739 that was one thing that I knew for sure 946 00:39:25,781 --> 00:39:27,491 at a young age that... 947 00:39:29,034 --> 00:39:30,702 I don't want to say I was an alcoholic, 948 00:39:30,744 --> 00:39:33,371 but I could have been one so easily. 949 00:39:33,413 --> 00:39:35,749 You know, I watched so many of my other friends 950 00:39:35,791 --> 00:39:36,833 become alcoholics. 951 00:39:37,793 --> 00:39:39,252 So, I was always very careful, 952 00:39:39,294 --> 00:39:41,171 but I used it as much as I could bef-- 953 00:39:41,213 --> 00:39:42,923 without crossing that line, you know? 954 00:39:42,964 --> 00:39:44,716 'Cause I couldn't let myself do it. 955 00:39:44,758 --> 00:39:47,803 Too much pride, I don't know, like, I did drugs, 956 00:39:47,844 --> 00:39:50,013 I did a lot of drugs, um... 957 00:39:51,515 --> 00:39:54,684 just to feel something other than anger. 958 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,229 Just to, like, turn my thoughts off 959 00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:58,814 for a minute, you know? 960 00:39:58,855 --> 00:40:00,482 {\an8}[interviewer] 961 00:40:00,524 --> 00:40:01,733 {\an8}- No, absolutely not. - [interviewer] Really? 962 00:40:01,775 --> 00:40:03,276 {\an8}Not at all? No? 963 00:40:03,318 --> 00:40:04,945 Well, I mean, at the moment it did. 964 00:40:04,986 --> 00:40:06,780 At the moment, you know, I think it was just-- 965 00:40:06,822 --> 00:40:07,906 it just, yeah, it's... 966 00:40:09,741 --> 00:40:11,326 Yeah, just a little bit at a time 967 00:40:11,368 --> 00:40:12,744 to help you get through or whatever. 968 00:40:14,955 --> 00:40:16,456 Somehow I knew 969 00:40:16,498 --> 00:40:18,542 that I didn't want to be an alcoholic. 970 00:40:18,583 --> 00:40:20,669 I didn't want to be a drug addict. 971 00:40:21,461 --> 00:40:25,132 Uh, so I switched booze and alcohol for women... 972 00:40:27,175 --> 00:40:28,260 and I got around. 973 00:40:28,969 --> 00:40:30,220 And it was the uniform... 974 00:40:31,221 --> 00:40:33,557 and it was the fact that I was a-- I was a widower. 975 00:40:33,598 --> 00:40:35,976 And so I just swapped one coping me-- 976 00:40:36,017 --> 00:40:38,061 one bad coping mechanism for another. 977 00:40:38,854 --> 00:40:41,231 And this lasted for a few years. 978 00:40:43,358 --> 00:40:44,693 {\an8}[interviewer] 979 00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:46,444 {\an8}We got, um, 980 00:40:46,486 --> 00:40:49,364 {\an8}sort of inadvertently set up by our dispatcher. 981 00:40:49,406 --> 00:40:51,116 He texts me back and goes, "They sent me your number," 982 00:40:51,158 --> 00:40:52,284 and I was like, "What?" 983 00:40:52,784 --> 00:40:54,244 I was like, "No." [chuckles] 984 00:40:54,703 --> 00:40:57,372 I was hurting, um, 985 00:40:57,414 --> 00:40:59,332 I was lonely, I was single... 986 00:41:00,709 --> 00:41:02,169 and, uh, so I texted her one day 987 00:41:02,210 --> 00:41:04,045 I'm like, "Hey, it's Keith. 988 00:41:04,087 --> 00:41:05,672 I heard you think I'm cute." 989 00:41:05,714 --> 00:41:06,923 And it just sort of took off from there. 990 00:41:06,965 --> 00:41:10,010 {\an8}[interviewer] 991 00:41:15,932 --> 00:41:19,644 {\an8}I think that I don't see people necessarily 992 00:41:19,686 --> 00:41:22,397 {\an8}for what's on the outside, but who they are. 993 00:41:22,439 --> 00:41:25,275 Um, and that our baggage, 994 00:41:25,317 --> 00:41:28,278 our past, our history is-- 995 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,697 it really just changes who we are, 996 00:41:30,739 --> 00:41:32,407 it doesn't define us. 997 00:41:32,449 --> 00:41:33,992 Everybody has good days and bad days, 998 00:41:34,034 --> 00:41:35,744 whether you deal with mental health or not, 999 00:41:35,785 --> 00:41:37,871 but things were-- things were good. 1000 00:41:37,913 --> 00:41:41,249 Um, I had finished my nursing education, um, 1001 00:41:41,291 --> 00:41:44,544 so we were doing a lot better financially. 1002 00:41:44,586 --> 00:41:46,713 Um, we had bought a house, 1003 00:41:46,755 --> 00:41:49,591 you know, sort of living the-- the American dream. 1004 00:41:49,633 --> 00:41:53,094 Um, and we made a decision 1005 00:41:53,136 --> 00:41:55,889 to, um, try to have a baby. 1006 00:41:55,931 --> 00:41:58,683 Pretty uneventful until the end 1007 00:41:58,725 --> 00:42:01,728 where we had some medical complications 1008 00:42:01,770 --> 00:42:04,606 that resulted in, um, 1009 00:42:04,648 --> 00:42:07,317 me delivering our daughter early. 1010 00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:10,195 During the period of time that I was in labor, 1011 00:42:10,237 --> 00:42:13,031 there was times they were asking if we wanted last rites, 1012 00:42:13,073 --> 00:42:14,449 if we wanted the chaplain. 1013 00:42:14,491 --> 00:42:16,785 They just can't stop the bleeding, 1014 00:42:16,826 --> 00:42:18,411 and she's hemorrhaging. 1015 00:42:18,453 --> 00:42:21,122 We didn't know if the baby would make it. 1016 00:42:21,164 --> 00:42:23,333 We didn't know if I was gonna make it. 1017 00:42:23,375 --> 00:42:26,586 The idea of losing another spouse 1018 00:42:26,628 --> 00:42:28,296 sort of started the spiral. 1019 00:42:28,338 --> 00:42:30,257 That was a really, really tough thing, 1020 00:42:30,298 --> 00:42:31,967 and I didn't realize it was happening 1021 00:42:32,008 --> 00:42:33,885 until we all came back home and then we-- 1022 00:42:33,927 --> 00:42:34,970 we knew something was up. 1023 00:42:36,137 --> 00:42:38,682 Something was different with Keith. 1024 00:42:38,723 --> 00:42:40,642 [Riggle] The results of the trauma 1025 00:42:40,684 --> 00:42:43,603 first responders face can be catastrophic. 1026 00:42:43,645 --> 00:42:45,897 And not just with alcoholism and divorce. 1027 00:42:45,939 --> 00:42:47,649 In America, first responders 1028 00:42:47,691 --> 00:42:50,568 make up less than 2% of the population, 1029 00:42:50,610 --> 00:42:54,197 but account for nearly 20% of the suicides. 1030 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,120 I just started becoming more aware 1031 00:43:00,161 --> 00:43:03,039 of what the problem was and how big it was 1032 00:43:03,081 --> 00:43:05,500 and how all encompassing it was. 1033 00:43:05,542 --> 00:43:09,170 And I-- I didn't know... 1034 00:43:11,006 --> 00:43:13,466 I didn't know if I could heal. 1035 00:43:13,508 --> 00:43:16,386 I-- I just felt like I was too far gone, 1036 00:43:16,428 --> 00:43:19,014 that the problems that I were-- 1037 00:43:19,055 --> 00:43:20,807 that I was becoming aware 1038 00:43:20,849 --> 00:43:23,935 were problems was every bit of me. 1039 00:43:23,977 --> 00:43:25,520 It-- it wasn't like, uh, 1040 00:43:25,562 --> 00:43:27,230 "Oh, I just need to start doing this," 1041 00:43:27,272 --> 00:43:30,108 or "Maybe if I do that better, I'll be okay." 1042 00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:32,777 It was, uh, "I need to not be me anymore." 1043 00:43:32,819 --> 00:43:34,195 And how do you do that, you know? 1044 00:43:35,572 --> 00:43:37,198 I gave up on therapy. 1045 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:38,992 I stopped going because I felt like 1046 00:43:39,034 --> 00:43:40,118 it wasn't helping anymore. 1047 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:41,244 And... 1048 00:43:42,746 --> 00:43:44,205 life was still stressful, 1049 00:43:44,247 --> 00:43:46,124 things weren't getting any better, 1050 00:43:46,166 --> 00:43:47,417 and I didn't know what to do. 1051 00:43:47,459 --> 00:43:49,210 And so I-- 1052 00:43:49,252 --> 00:43:51,588 I started thinking about killing myself 1053 00:43:51,629 --> 00:43:54,049 off and on all the time. 1054 00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:57,052 You know, just constantly up and down, 1055 00:43:57,093 --> 00:43:59,304 never enough to actually do it, 1056 00:43:59,346 --> 00:44:02,057 no attempts, but just thinking about it. 1057 00:44:02,807 --> 00:44:04,225 I'd be driving in my truck just... 1058 00:44:05,352 --> 00:44:07,687 "Why don't I just drive right into this bridge abutment?" 1059 00:44:07,729 --> 00:44:09,230 Just, what am I doing? 1060 00:44:09,272 --> 00:44:11,024 Like, what is the point of any of this? 1061 00:44:11,816 --> 00:44:13,318 Why do I keep trying? 1062 00:44:13,818 --> 00:44:16,029 Like, I just felt like I had hurt everyone 1063 00:44:16,071 --> 00:44:17,781 that I cared about. 1064 00:44:17,822 --> 00:44:19,699 I was dragging everyone down with me, and I... 1065 00:44:21,409 --> 00:44:23,161 I just didn't want to do it anymore. 1066 00:44:23,203 --> 00:44:24,913 I didn't know what I was fighting for, you know? 1067 00:44:24,954 --> 00:44:26,581 I had no direction and... 1068 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:30,710 it's really my-- my wife and my brother. 1069 00:44:30,752 --> 00:44:32,003 I just couldn't... 1070 00:44:43,473 --> 00:44:44,891 I just couldn't leave them behind. 1071 00:44:49,229 --> 00:44:52,065 'Cause I felt like I'd be a failure, 1072 00:44:52,107 --> 00:44:54,150 and I just couldn't-- I couldn't do it. 1073 00:44:54,651 --> 00:44:56,236 I wanted to. I just couldn't, 1074 00:44:56,277 --> 00:44:59,823 so I just stuck around, just treading water, 1075 00:44:59,864 --> 00:45:02,117 just trying to figure out what the fuck to do next, so... 1076 00:45:04,369 --> 00:45:06,704 My depression almost killed me a couple of times. 1077 00:45:06,746 --> 00:45:08,331 I tried to take myself-- 1078 00:45:08,373 --> 00:45:10,458 tried to take my own life four times, so-- 1079 00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:12,585 and as I got older, I learned how to take care of that 1080 00:45:12,627 --> 00:45:14,337 and learned how to manage it better. 1081 00:45:14,379 --> 00:45:17,298 It became apparent I couldn't take anymore. 1082 00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:20,969 Where I was just, like, turned so inward, 1083 00:45:21,010 --> 00:45:22,429 and I was so depressed, 1084 00:45:22,470 --> 00:45:23,972 and I just didn't want to exist anymore. 1085 00:45:24,013 --> 00:45:25,432 At this point, my-- my two older kids 1086 00:45:25,473 --> 00:45:26,933 were completely out of the picture. 1087 00:45:26,975 --> 00:45:28,351 They wanted nothing to do with me. 1088 00:45:28,393 --> 00:45:29,894 I didn't want to die, I didn't want to exist. 1089 00:45:31,438 --> 00:45:33,690 I went down in, uh, I went down in my basement 1090 00:45:33,731 --> 00:45:35,108 and, uh, got in my gun cabinet... 1091 00:45:36,609 --> 00:45:37,694 and I, uh... 1092 00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:42,115 I, uh... 1093 00:45:46,035 --> 00:45:49,372 I, uh, I grabbed my nine mil handgun. 1094 00:45:50,957 --> 00:45:52,417 That was my carry gun. 1095 00:45:52,459 --> 00:45:53,793 I'd gone to the range and probably put 1096 00:45:53,835 --> 00:45:55,253 700 or 800 rounds downrange 1097 00:45:55,295 --> 00:45:56,379 and never had a problem. 1098 00:45:56,963 --> 00:45:59,340 Never jammed, never double fed, 1099 00:45:59,382 --> 00:46:01,217 never had an issue with the mag, nothing never happened. 1100 00:46:01,259 --> 00:46:04,429 It was always just clean, spot on, dead on accurate. 1101 00:46:05,388 --> 00:46:07,474 And I was pissed, and I-- and I ran downstairs, 1102 00:46:07,515 --> 00:46:10,310 and I grabbed it, and I slammed the mag in, 1103 00:46:10,351 --> 00:46:12,103 and I rack it, 1104 00:46:12,145 --> 00:46:13,396 and I remember screaming, 1105 00:46:13,438 --> 00:46:15,231 and I pressed it against my head, 1106 00:46:15,273 --> 00:46:17,442 and I just pulled the trigger, and it clicked 1107 00:46:17,484 --> 00:46:18,568 and for, like... 1108 00:46:21,196 --> 00:46:22,739 it seemed like minutes, 1109 00:46:22,780 --> 00:46:24,324 but it was probably a split second, 1110 00:46:24,365 --> 00:46:25,617 it was nothing, it was-- I heard nothing, 1111 00:46:25,658 --> 00:46:26,743 I felt nothing... 1112 00:46:28,036 --> 00:46:29,120 I saw nothing. 1113 00:46:30,288 --> 00:46:31,831 And I was like-- 1114 00:46:31,873 --> 00:46:33,082 I had that, like, feeling, "Oh, it worked. 1115 00:46:33,124 --> 00:46:35,126 It's over. The pain is over." 1116 00:46:37,462 --> 00:46:38,796 And I realized my eyes were closed... 1117 00:46:40,965 --> 00:46:42,592 and I opened them and I was, "What the-- 1118 00:46:42,634 --> 00:46:43,718 the fuck happened?" 1119 00:46:45,345 --> 00:46:47,639 [sighs] So, I-- I dropped the gun 1120 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,724 under a chair in front of me, and I started crying. 1121 00:46:51,851 --> 00:46:52,936 And I realize... 1122 00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:55,438 that the gun never went off. 1123 00:46:57,232 --> 00:47:01,152 And so I open up the slide on the gun... 1124 00:47:02,487 --> 00:47:04,447 and the gun had double-fed a bullet. 1125 00:47:05,657 --> 00:47:08,368 It jammed the firing tube. 1126 00:47:12,038 --> 00:47:13,122 And I was like... 1127 00:47:16,042 --> 00:47:18,086 I like to say I had this moment of realization 1128 00:47:18,127 --> 00:47:19,587 that it wasn't meant to be, 1129 00:47:19,629 --> 00:47:20,797 that I'm supposed to be here, but I didn't. 1130 00:47:20,838 --> 00:47:21,923 I was pissed. 1131 00:47:22,924 --> 00:47:26,386 So, never thought he would try. 1132 00:47:27,512 --> 00:47:30,223 After the fact, not surprised it happened. 1133 00:47:30,807 --> 00:47:33,601 Um, we had always sort of, 1134 00:47:33,643 --> 00:47:35,436 in my mind, had an agreement 1135 00:47:35,478 --> 00:47:37,605 that it wouldn't come to that, 1136 00:47:37,647 --> 00:47:41,276 um, but things had just spiraled to this point 1137 00:47:41,317 --> 00:47:44,696 where, in his mind, there wasn't another option. 1138 00:47:44,737 --> 00:47:47,240 Um, that his existence 1139 00:47:47,282 --> 00:47:49,284 was causing more damage than benefit. 1140 00:47:50,994 --> 00:47:53,496 So, I was not prepared 1141 00:47:53,538 --> 00:47:57,584 for when he told me what had happened, um... 1142 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:00,753 but, again, 1143 00:48:00,795 --> 00:48:03,339 not surprised in hindsight 1144 00:48:03,381 --> 00:48:05,216 that we were leading up to it. 1145 00:48:05,258 --> 00:48:06,593 [interviewer] How did he tell you? 1146 00:48:06,634 --> 00:48:08,720 He called me. Yeah. 1147 00:48:08,761 --> 00:48:09,887 [interviewer] Do you remember what he said? 1148 00:48:11,097 --> 00:48:13,099 It was basically, you know, 1149 00:48:13,141 --> 00:48:15,518 "I just tried to kill myself, and it didn't work." 1150 00:48:16,811 --> 00:48:19,522 And it just sort of just-- was like getting backhanded. 1151 00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:23,776 You know, that we had gone so far 1152 00:48:23,818 --> 00:48:26,446 and worked so hard to get where we are, 1153 00:48:26,487 --> 00:48:28,906 and it, to me, felt like it was all gone. 1154 00:48:31,367 --> 00:48:33,077 So, then we... 1155 00:48:34,621 --> 00:48:38,041 sort of were like, "Well, what-- what is next?" 1156 00:48:38,082 --> 00:48:39,626 You know, "What do we do? 1157 00:48:39,667 --> 00:48:43,004 Do we, you know, go to the ER? 1158 00:48:43,046 --> 00:48:44,964 Do we go and getting--" 1159 00:48:45,006 --> 00:48:48,301 Our mental health system is so broken. 1160 00:48:48,926 --> 00:48:52,847 Um, there are-- I mean, I've had patients 1161 00:48:52,889 --> 00:48:56,267 that have walked out of our ERs and killed themselves 1162 00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:58,478 within 20 minutes of discharge. 1163 00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:00,355 It's a very broken system, 1164 00:49:00,396 --> 00:49:02,231 and it is even more broken 1165 00:49:02,273 --> 00:49:04,776 for the first responder community 1166 00:49:04,817 --> 00:49:06,069 'cause we know the system. 1167 00:49:06,653 --> 00:49:08,738 We know what to say and what not to say. 1168 00:49:10,323 --> 00:49:13,076 We've had a lot of ups and downs, um, 1169 00:49:13,117 --> 00:49:14,827 and to me the most challenging thing 1170 00:49:14,869 --> 00:49:16,871 is watching somebody 1171 00:49:16,913 --> 00:49:19,374 while Keith was going through his hardest times. 1172 00:49:20,208 --> 00:49:22,794 Desperately just trying to figure it out 1173 00:49:22,835 --> 00:49:24,087 and desperately just... 1174 00:49:25,505 --> 00:49:26,589 [clears throat] Sorry. 1175 00:49:29,842 --> 00:49:33,054 There was a point in time when he was in the hospital 1176 00:49:33,096 --> 00:49:36,808 and getting treatment that was causing some me-- 1177 00:49:36,849 --> 00:49:38,476 some short-term memory issues, 1178 00:49:38,518 --> 00:49:41,646 and-- and we would talk, um... 1179 00:49:42,814 --> 00:49:45,525 uh, just regular day talk stuff 1180 00:49:45,566 --> 00:49:47,110 trying to just visit, 1181 00:49:47,151 --> 00:49:50,321 and he would talk about how just... 1182 00:49:51,447 --> 00:49:53,366 he would do whatever he had to do 1183 00:49:53,408 --> 00:49:58,621 just to get back to that spot of not being in this hell. 1184 00:49:59,288 --> 00:50:00,998 There's no-- really no other way 1185 00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:02,583 for me to be able to describe it to somebody. 1186 00:50:02,625 --> 00:50:05,294 He was in hell, he was, you know, he... 1187 00:50:06,462 --> 00:50:08,506 I-- I didn't help with that, 1188 00:50:08,548 --> 00:50:10,717 but I tried to be there for him when... 1189 00:50:11,676 --> 00:50:15,555 didn't-- didn't recognize some of the signs and missed it. 1190 00:50:16,556 --> 00:50:17,724 And, um... 1191 00:50:19,934 --> 00:50:22,311 then-- then your best friend tries to kill himself. 1192 00:50:22,353 --> 00:50:26,482 [somber music plays] 1193 00:50:27,859 --> 00:50:29,777 {\an8}[Riggle] When that bullet lodged 1194 00:50:29,819 --> 00:50:32,655 {\an8} in Keith Hanks' pistol, it not only saved his life, 1195 00:50:32,697 --> 00:50:35,116 {\an8} it sent him down a new path of discovery. 1196 00:50:35,950 --> 00:50:38,536 {\an8} That there are ways to cope with the trauma 1197 00:50:38,578 --> 00:50:40,788 associated with being a first responder. 1198 00:50:41,956 --> 00:50:43,624 Early on in my career, 1199 00:50:43,666 --> 00:50:45,918 it was just starting to be recognized 1200 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,423 that we're probably not doing coping that well. 1201 00:50:50,465 --> 00:50:52,300 We've-- I've definitely seen a change 1202 00:50:52,341 --> 00:50:55,094 over the 30 years that I've been in the fire service. 1203 00:50:55,136 --> 00:50:59,015 Um, the change to understand that, 1204 00:50:59,056 --> 00:51:02,310 yeah, this-- this job will take a toll on you. 1205 00:51:02,351 --> 00:51:04,520 As I've been in my career, like I said, this is, um, 1206 00:51:04,562 --> 00:51:06,397 I'm in my 21st year, 1207 00:51:06,439 --> 00:51:08,941 so when you see certain things now, 1208 00:51:08,983 --> 00:51:10,693 it's easier me-- for me now to manage it, 1209 00:51:10,735 --> 00:51:12,195 and I have a good support system 1210 00:51:12,236 --> 00:51:13,488 of people-- of people to talk to. 1211 00:51:14,113 --> 00:51:17,909 I know some great doctors, I speak to other officers, 1212 00:51:17,950 --> 00:51:19,535 um, good friends of mine, 1213 00:51:19,577 --> 00:51:21,496 you just need to-- you need to unload it. 1214 00:51:21,537 --> 00:51:23,623 {\an8}You can't be the tough guy and think nothing bothers you 1215 00:51:23,664 --> 00:51:24,749 {\an8}'cause that's bullshit. 1216 00:51:24,791 --> 00:51:25,958 {\an8}It does bother you. 1217 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,169 {\an8}Don't hide it, don't eat it. 1218 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,548 You know, if you can't talk to your partner at work, 1219 00:51:32,590 --> 00:51:35,134 if you can't talk to somebody on the department, 1220 00:51:35,176 --> 00:51:37,678 if you can't talk to a chaplain or-- or, you know, 1221 00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:40,932 some sort of clinician or your significant other, 1222 00:51:40,973 --> 00:51:42,558 try and find somebody that you can talk to, 1223 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,560 because if you eat this stuff, 1224 00:51:44,602 --> 00:51:46,729 it-- it does really bad things to you. 1225 00:51:46,771 --> 00:51:48,981 It's gonna-- it's gonna tear you up. 1226 00:51:49,023 --> 00:51:50,817 Even just talking to your partner on the ride back 1227 00:51:50,858 --> 00:51:54,529 from-- from the call helps tremendously. 1228 00:51:54,570 --> 00:51:56,030 All municipalities, 1229 00:51:56,072 --> 00:51:57,865 we have an employee assistance program 1230 00:51:57,907 --> 00:51:59,575 that's open to all members. 1231 00:51:59,617 --> 00:52:01,828 I've actually referred several people to that 1232 00:52:01,869 --> 00:52:03,037 for different reasons. 1233 00:52:03,079 --> 00:52:04,872 That's all anonymous. 1234 00:52:04,914 --> 00:52:06,666 You don't talk about what you talked about inside, 1235 00:52:06,707 --> 00:52:09,836 so people feel comfortable sharing. 1236 00:52:09,877 --> 00:52:12,672 Um, and that's designed 1237 00:52:12,713 --> 00:52:15,132 to kind of diffuse the situation, 1238 00:52:15,174 --> 00:52:16,759 get it out. 1239 00:52:16,801 --> 00:52:19,679 See, and those people would, you know, the-- 1240 00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:22,682 the teams we bring in might recognize, you know, 1241 00:52:22,723 --> 00:52:25,059 it's pretty normal reaction with everybody 1242 00:52:25,101 --> 00:52:27,019 what they saw, you know, 1243 00:52:27,061 --> 00:52:29,981 whether it was a burn victim or whether it was a car accident 1244 00:52:30,022 --> 00:52:33,818 or whether it was a-- a person that we worked with 1245 00:52:33,860 --> 00:52:35,570 that we had to render aid to, 1246 00:52:35,611 --> 00:52:37,446 which is always a high stress. 1247 00:52:37,488 --> 00:52:39,490 Um, they might identify, 1248 00:52:39,532 --> 00:52:41,158 "Hey, we need-- 1249 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:44,328 this person, we need to go down a further road 1250 00:52:44,370 --> 00:52:47,456 to giving them those, uh, those resources." 1251 00:52:47,498 --> 00:52:49,917 We're getting there, but it's still a long way to go. 1252 00:52:50,668 --> 00:52:53,421 It's still taboo in a way to talk about... 1253 00:52:55,047 --> 00:52:57,425 the-- the traumas that you see and the fires that you go to 1254 00:52:57,466 --> 00:52:59,093 because, um, 1255 00:52:59,135 --> 00:53:01,012 either people don't want to hear it, 1256 00:53:01,053 --> 00:53:03,389 or they're just like, "Well, you chose that profession. 1257 00:53:03,431 --> 00:53:04,640 So, what do you mean? 1258 00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:06,893 You're having a bad time with something?" 1259 00:53:06,934 --> 00:53:09,103 {\an8}The department that I work for now, uh, 1260 00:53:09,145 --> 00:53:12,732 {\an8}the chief is very, um, 1261 00:53:12,773 --> 00:53:14,317 {\an8}open about this stuff. 1262 00:53:14,358 --> 00:53:16,819 And any time there's a bad car accident 1263 00:53:16,861 --> 00:53:18,988 or a bad fire, he always offers help 1264 00:53:19,030 --> 00:53:20,781 if you need it. 1265 00:53:20,823 --> 00:53:23,284 The employee assistant programs are really good. 1266 00:53:24,035 --> 00:53:25,119 You know, I mean... 1267 00:53:27,121 --> 00:53:30,374 I-- I-- I hope people understand that it's good to talk about it 1268 00:53:30,416 --> 00:53:31,751 and get it off your chest 1269 00:53:31,792 --> 00:53:32,960 instead of keeping it all in, you know? 1270 00:53:33,502 --> 00:53:36,547 {\an8}[interviewer] 1271 00:53:42,553 --> 00:53:45,014 {\an8}Uh, they're at a lot better advantage now 1272 00:53:45,056 --> 00:53:46,599 {\an8}than we ever were when, you know, 1273 00:53:46,641 --> 00:53:48,851 {\an8}back when we started 25 years ago. 1274 00:53:48,893 --> 00:53:51,270 Yeah, back then there was a stigma. 1275 00:53:51,312 --> 00:53:53,064 But as far as the people coming up right now... 1276 00:53:54,106 --> 00:53:56,025 as an instructor 1277 00:53:56,067 --> 00:53:57,860 and as somebody who's worked with people like that, you know, 1278 00:53:57,902 --> 00:54:00,112 they ask me, "How do you deal with a call like this?" 1279 00:54:00,154 --> 00:54:01,280 I'm like, "You cry your eyes out." 1280 00:54:02,281 --> 00:54:04,033 Like, as soon as you walk out of the ambulance 1281 00:54:04,075 --> 00:54:05,576 or out of the emergency department, 1282 00:54:05,618 --> 00:54:07,078 you go cry your eyes out, you're a human being, 1283 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:08,371 you're an emotional creature. 1284 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,374 If you aren't affected by that, I don't know what to tell-- 1285 00:54:11,415 --> 00:54:13,125 I don't know how to deal with that. 1286 00:54:13,167 --> 00:54:16,170 This peer support or anyone helping somebody else 1287 00:54:16,212 --> 00:54:17,880 is always, like, a secret. 1288 00:54:17,922 --> 00:54:19,715 It's like, you gotta know a special knock 1289 00:54:19,757 --> 00:54:21,342 or something like that 1290 00:54:21,384 --> 00:54:23,177 or have that person to call that person, 1291 00:54:23,219 --> 00:54:25,221 and it can't-- it can't be that way. 1292 00:54:26,138 --> 00:54:28,432 I'm not talking about talking about your feelings. 1293 00:54:28,474 --> 00:54:30,393 We get enough of that at work. 1294 00:54:30,434 --> 00:54:32,019 You just need to-- 1295 00:54:32,061 --> 00:54:34,021 to basically identify 1296 00:54:34,063 --> 00:54:35,731 that there is support that's needed. 1297 00:54:35,773 --> 00:54:38,734 Even though as a society in general 1298 00:54:38,776 --> 00:54:40,444 is more open to having conversations 1299 00:54:40,486 --> 00:54:42,822 about suicide awareness and-- and depression 1300 00:54:42,863 --> 00:54:46,534 {\an8}and those topics, um, we are just-- 1301 00:54:46,575 --> 00:54:48,119 {\an8}just now starting to connect them 1302 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:49,787 {\an8}into the first responder world. 1303 00:54:49,829 --> 00:54:51,539 We all started kind of networking a little bit, 1304 00:54:51,580 --> 00:54:52,790 and there's more and more people talking about it. 1305 00:54:53,541 --> 00:54:55,459 Uh, we have conversations now with groups 1306 00:54:55,501 --> 00:54:57,628 as opposed to people just going their separate ways 1307 00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:58,963 and-- and not talking about it. 1308 00:54:59,547 --> 00:55:02,133 So, they're still there, they're just more open now 1309 00:55:02,174 --> 00:55:03,676 because people don't feel they have to hide it. 1310 00:55:04,427 --> 00:55:06,721 And we're trying to pass on to the newer generation, 1311 00:55:06,762 --> 00:55:08,347 the newer firefighters and paramedics 1312 00:55:08,389 --> 00:55:09,598 coming into the field 1313 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:11,851 that it's okay, talk about it. 1314 00:55:11,892 --> 00:55:13,394 Nobody cares, nobody's judging you. 1315 00:55:13,436 --> 00:55:15,146 I think that's one thing, 1316 00:55:15,187 --> 00:55:17,732 especially in the last few years has become-- 1317 00:55:17,773 --> 00:55:20,484 the mental health professionals have realized 1318 00:55:20,526 --> 00:55:22,069 peer counselors 1319 00:55:22,111 --> 00:55:25,990 or people get them trained somewhat in this 1320 00:55:26,032 --> 00:55:27,700 are incredibly powerful. 1321 00:55:27,742 --> 00:55:29,285 'Cause sometimes, someone from the outside, 1322 00:55:29,326 --> 00:55:32,038 especially when you're on that hair trigger 1323 00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:33,789 or you're snapping because of what you've seen, 1324 00:55:33,831 --> 00:55:36,417 and, I don't know, someone right out of college 1325 00:55:36,459 --> 00:55:38,502 comes in and says, "Well, we're gonna talk about this." 1326 00:55:38,544 --> 00:55:40,463 "Well, I don't want to talk to you right now." 1327 00:55:41,213 --> 00:55:43,299 I do peer support groups two nights a week, 1328 00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:45,051 and we just talk. 1329 00:55:45,092 --> 00:55:46,886 And it's good that when you have that bad call, 1330 00:55:46,927 --> 00:55:48,679 my wife would just look at me, "You got group tonight?" 1331 00:55:48,721 --> 00:55:49,805 "Yep." 1332 00:55:49,847 --> 00:55:51,432 And we know we're good. 1333 00:55:51,474 --> 00:55:53,100 And a couple of times I'll get in on it, 1334 00:55:53,142 --> 00:55:54,935 and I just kind of need to vent a little bit, 1335 00:55:54,977 --> 00:55:56,437 and life is good. 1336 00:55:56,479 --> 00:55:57,938 Now, we have this backpack theory, 1337 00:55:57,980 --> 00:55:59,148 I don't know if you've heard this, 1338 00:55:59,190 --> 00:56:00,399 um, every time we see a trauma, 1339 00:56:00,441 --> 00:56:02,443 we put a rock into a backpack. 1340 00:56:02,485 --> 00:56:04,612 And every time we talk about it, we take a rock out. 1341 00:56:05,362 --> 00:56:07,823 If we do not talk about it, that backpack will weigh us down 1342 00:56:07,865 --> 00:56:09,283 and break us. 1343 00:56:09,325 --> 00:56:10,993 So, the more we unload from that, 1344 00:56:11,035 --> 00:56:12,661 the more we can receive. 1345 00:56:12,703 --> 00:56:14,246 One-on-one should be to sit down and talk. 1346 00:56:14,288 --> 00:56:15,456 "Is everyone here all right? 1347 00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,750 We're gonna sit down and talk as a group, 1348 00:56:17,792 --> 00:56:20,336 we're gonna sit down and talk individually, 1349 00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:22,046 we're gonna make sure everyone's okay." 1350 00:56:22,088 --> 00:56:23,506 Because you need to take care of the people 1351 00:56:23,547 --> 00:56:24,507 that are taking care of everyone. 1352 00:56:25,341 --> 00:56:28,010 Mentally, physically, you know, um... 1353 00:56:29,053 --> 00:56:30,346 whatever we can do. 1354 00:56:30,387 --> 00:56:31,764 When you're on, 1355 00:56:31,806 --> 00:56:33,307 you're not allowed to not be okay. 1356 00:56:34,058 --> 00:56:36,977 {\an8}You call an ambulance and they show up, 1357 00:56:37,019 --> 00:56:39,605 {\an8}they gotta walk in calm, cool, collected. 1358 00:56:39,647 --> 00:56:41,148 I'm not running, I'm walking with a purpose. 1359 00:56:42,316 --> 00:56:43,943 I'm not yelling, I'm talking loudly. 1360 00:56:44,568 --> 00:56:47,071 I'm not upset, I'm calm and giving direction. 1361 00:56:47,780 --> 00:56:49,907 And if we're a mess... 1362 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,744 imagine how things go from there. 1363 00:56:53,786 --> 00:56:56,705 To find a way to shut that on and off, 1364 00:56:56,747 --> 00:56:58,999 that's not a real easy switch to hit, 1365 00:56:59,041 --> 00:57:01,043 uh, but... 1366 00:57:02,253 --> 00:57:06,132 when you're day-in and day-out is potentially death, 1367 00:57:06,173 --> 00:57:08,425 dismemberment, destruction, 1368 00:57:08,467 --> 00:57:10,761 you should make sure that you're all right. 1369 00:57:10,803 --> 00:57:12,263 Um, when I first came back, 1370 00:57:12,304 --> 00:57:14,682 my first appointment was in Panama, 1371 00:57:14,723 --> 00:57:16,225 and I was able to meet 1372 00:57:16,267 --> 00:57:18,394 this old timer special forces medic. 1373 00:57:18,435 --> 00:57:20,771 So, him and I, coming from the special ops background, 1374 00:57:20,813 --> 00:57:22,356 really clicked, 1375 00:57:22,398 --> 00:57:24,316 and we were doing some training together, 1376 00:57:24,358 --> 00:57:26,861 and he said to me, "Brian, I don't know you at all, 1377 00:57:26,902 --> 00:57:30,156 but you need to take what you have and what you feel, 1378 00:57:30,197 --> 00:57:31,949 and you need to make a foundation. 1379 00:57:31,991 --> 00:57:33,784 And you can't make it out of sandstone, 1380 00:57:33,826 --> 00:57:37,413 and you need to start this today to make a solid-- 1381 00:57:37,454 --> 00:57:39,039 because if you build it out of things 1382 00:57:39,081 --> 00:57:41,250 and just suppress it and tuck it away, 1383 00:57:41,292 --> 00:57:43,544 it's gonna crumble and you will crumble." 1384 00:57:43,586 --> 00:57:47,631 The state has-- has recognized, in the emergency services, 1385 00:57:47,673 --> 00:57:50,134 that we had-- we had a problem, we have a problem, 1386 00:57:50,176 --> 00:57:53,220 and if we don't deal with these things early on 1387 00:57:53,262 --> 00:57:56,390 and get it out of the-- get it out of the-- shadows, 1388 00:57:56,432 --> 00:57:59,226 uh, we-- it's a real problem. 1389 00:57:59,268 --> 00:58:03,439 I-- I wanna share this, I always feel, um... 1390 00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:05,107 bad or a concern 1391 00:58:05,149 --> 00:58:08,944 for my law enforcement brothers and sisters 1392 00:58:08,986 --> 00:58:13,115 'cause we talk about us operating as companies 1393 00:58:13,157 --> 00:58:14,700 and together all the time. 1394 00:58:14,742 --> 00:58:17,036 Law enforcement officers, a lot of times, 1395 00:58:17,077 --> 00:58:18,370 they're in their cruiser by themselves 1396 00:58:18,412 --> 00:58:20,414 so they may get and do a scene, 1397 00:58:20,456 --> 00:58:22,082 but then they go back out on patrol. 1398 00:58:22,917 --> 00:58:24,710 They don't get that as much. 1399 00:58:24,752 --> 00:58:25,920 So, yeah. It's getting better. 1400 00:58:25,961 --> 00:58:27,421 Before, in my profession, 1401 00:58:27,463 --> 00:58:29,757 I'd say, when I started, garbage. 1402 00:58:29,798 --> 00:58:31,842 "Oh, let's go get drunk." That's how we took care of it. 1403 00:58:32,343 --> 00:58:34,553 "Oh, we saw 27 dead bodies today." 1404 00:58:34,595 --> 00:58:36,639 "Ah, let's go get hammered. It'll be all right." 1405 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:38,974 But now we have good companies and good services 1406 00:58:39,016 --> 00:58:40,935 that will come to the station. 1407 00:58:40,976 --> 00:58:43,062 And our bosses where we work, they're pretty good at it, 1408 00:58:43,103 --> 00:58:45,356 and our fire department, they help out a lot, too. 1409 00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:47,191 This stuff has been going on a long time. 1410 00:58:47,233 --> 00:58:49,109 We need to bring it out and make it part of the culture 1411 00:58:49,151 --> 00:58:50,736 that it's okay to ask for help. 1412 00:58:50,778 --> 00:58:52,529 You're not invincible, 1413 00:58:52,571 --> 00:58:55,824 and we're gonna-- we're gonna give you the tools 1414 00:58:55,866 --> 00:58:57,785 to help you deal with this 'cause we don't want to see 1415 00:58:57,826 --> 00:59:01,872 anybody deal or go to that-- driven there-- 1416 00:59:01,914 --> 00:59:04,375 and it's-- it's a problem, suicide or whatever. 1417 00:59:04,416 --> 00:59:05,918 I-- I can't even imagine. 1418 00:59:06,377 --> 00:59:07,836 It's never entered my mind, 1419 00:59:07,878 --> 00:59:09,004 but someone getting to that point 1420 00:59:09,046 --> 00:59:10,631 where they're so helpless, 1421 00:59:10,673 --> 00:59:12,258 that's their thought, so culture change. 1422 00:59:12,299 --> 00:59:13,926 Now the culture is developing, 1423 00:59:13,968 --> 00:59:16,011 it's understanding that, no, you know what? 1424 00:59:16,053 --> 00:59:17,888 You go see some of these tragedies, 1425 00:59:17,930 --> 00:59:19,807 you should probably talk to somebody about it. 1426 00:59:20,349 --> 00:59:23,227 And if you do go talk to somebody about it, 1427 00:59:23,269 --> 00:59:25,688 it's not reflected as negative so much anymore. 1428 00:59:27,189 --> 00:59:28,649 [Riggle] The simple act of opening up 1429 00:59:28,691 --> 00:59:30,818 has proven to be a powerful tool, 1430 00:59:30,859 --> 00:59:33,028 but the first responders of Townsend 1431 00:59:33,070 --> 00:59:36,657 have also found additional ways of coping with the trauma. 1432 00:59:39,285 --> 00:59:40,744 [sighs] 1433 00:59:41,245 --> 00:59:43,330 I'm still on the job, so there's only so much... 1434 00:59:44,456 --> 00:59:46,125 that I want to say, but-- 1435 00:59:46,166 --> 00:59:47,584 or that I can say, but... 1436 00:59:48,669 --> 00:59:50,129 oh, fuck, it. 1437 00:59:50,170 --> 00:59:55,968 In 2017, New Hampshire finally made it 1438 00:59:56,010 --> 00:59:58,887 medically legal for people with PTSD 1439 00:59:58,929 --> 01:00:00,681 to get a medical marijuana card. 1440 01:00:01,307 --> 01:00:05,519 And, uh, I am very against pills and pharmaceuticals, 1441 01:00:05,561 --> 01:00:06,895 but I was willing to try that. 1442 01:00:07,479 --> 01:00:10,149 And I did, and it helped a lot. 1443 01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:12,651 Um, it didn't cure anything, 1444 01:00:12,693 --> 01:00:16,447 but it just helped life suck less, you know? 1445 01:00:16,488 --> 01:00:18,782 It just-- I didn't want to drink, 1446 01:00:18,824 --> 01:00:20,326 but that was the only thing I could do, 1447 01:00:20,367 --> 01:00:21,535 like, legally, you know? 1448 01:00:21,577 --> 01:00:22,870 That's the only thing I could talk about. 1449 01:00:22,911 --> 01:00:24,121 I hated alcohol. 1450 01:00:24,163 --> 01:00:25,539 I knew alcohol made it worse, 1451 01:00:25,581 --> 01:00:27,166 but temporarily it made it better. 1452 01:00:27,207 --> 01:00:29,710 But once I got my medical marijuana card, 1453 01:00:29,752 --> 01:00:32,338 that helped keep me here, 1454 01:00:32,379 --> 01:00:33,922 it helped keep me around, 1455 01:00:33,964 --> 01:00:36,091 it leveled me out a little bit, you know? 1456 01:00:36,133 --> 01:00:37,926 Then eventually, 1457 01:00:37,968 --> 01:00:40,846 it wasn't really helping anymore, you know? 1458 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:46,602 And I ended up having an event happen at work 1459 01:00:46,643 --> 01:00:51,774 which really triggered me and just set me off 1460 01:00:51,815 --> 01:00:53,734 in the worst way possible. 1461 01:00:53,776 --> 01:00:56,945 And basically I had a mental breakdown. 1462 01:00:56,987 --> 01:01:00,074 And I was unleashed, unhinged. 1463 01:01:00,115 --> 01:01:02,117 It was the closest to pure insanity 1464 01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:03,827 I've ever been in my entire life. 1465 01:01:03,869 --> 01:01:07,164 Over something now I consider pretty stupid. 1466 01:01:07,206 --> 01:01:10,250 But, you know, after years of just bottling it up 1467 01:01:10,292 --> 01:01:12,461 and just holding it in, it's funny, 1468 01:01:12,503 --> 01:01:14,046 all you need is that one little thing 1469 01:01:14,088 --> 01:01:15,172 and you just... [imitates bomb exploding] 1470 01:01:15,214 --> 01:01:16,799 It just explodes. 1471 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,885 And, uh, so I exploded, and, coincidentally, 1472 01:01:19,927 --> 01:01:22,179 right around the same time that I exploded, 1473 01:01:22,221 --> 01:01:24,515 I started reading a book on meditation. 1474 01:01:25,099 --> 01:01:30,229 And after many failed attempts, I finally was able to meditate 1475 01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:32,314 and it changed my entire life. 1476 01:01:32,940 --> 01:01:36,735 And, uh, it's just been an incredible journey 1477 01:01:36,777 --> 01:01:38,987 for the past three years, since then... 1478 01:01:40,739 --> 01:01:44,952 of healing, and I'm doing it myself 1479 01:01:44,993 --> 01:01:46,161 with no outside sources. 1480 01:01:47,162 --> 01:01:48,914 And, uh, it's led to everything. 1481 01:01:48,956 --> 01:01:52,292 That's the basis of my talk that I tell people 1482 01:01:52,334 --> 01:01:54,586 is I try to get veterans 1483 01:01:54,628 --> 01:01:56,588 and police and firemen to start meditating 1484 01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:58,298 because of how much it helped me. 1485 01:01:58,340 --> 01:01:59,925 And that's when I met Keith. 1486 01:02:00,968 --> 01:02:02,511 And so here I am meeting this guy, 1487 01:02:02,553 --> 01:02:04,012 and we're talking about our presentations 1488 01:02:04,054 --> 01:02:05,681 and how we're gonna do it. 1489 01:02:05,722 --> 01:02:07,599 And he's like, "Oh, man, do you meditate at all?" 1490 01:02:07,641 --> 01:02:09,226 You know, he's asking me, "Do you do cannabis at all? 1491 01:02:09,268 --> 01:02:10,727 Like, what are your things? What do you do?" 1492 01:02:10,769 --> 01:02:12,438 And he's kind of a laid back guy, 1493 01:02:12,479 --> 01:02:13,981 and I'm like, "No, I don't fucking meditate. 1494 01:02:14,022 --> 01:02:15,732 Like, no." 1495 01:02:15,774 --> 01:02:19,069 And so he sends me a book by a Buddhist monk. 1496 01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:21,530 I'm like, "Oh, my God. Here we go." 1497 01:02:23,699 --> 01:02:26,702 I started meditating, and I started realizing 1498 01:02:26,743 --> 01:02:28,412 the only thing I have control over is my reaction, 1499 01:02:28,454 --> 01:02:30,581 and that my whole life I've been reactive. 1500 01:02:31,540 --> 01:02:33,709 And for the first time in my life, I'm able to... 1501 01:02:35,002 --> 01:02:36,628 shut off the, you know, whatever it'd be, 1502 01:02:36,670 --> 01:02:38,839 the images, the-- the voices. 1503 01:02:38,881 --> 01:02:40,883 You know, thinking about the past 1504 01:02:40,924 --> 01:02:42,468 and worrying about the future, it started to become something 1505 01:02:42,509 --> 01:02:43,760 I had more control over 1506 01:02:43,802 --> 01:02:45,220 because I was living in the now. 1507 01:02:45,262 --> 01:02:46,972 I was-- I was practicing mindfulness. 1508 01:02:47,014 --> 01:02:49,850 I was-- I was-- I was really getting into it, 1509 01:02:50,726 --> 01:02:54,438 and it just-- it just-- I nurtured it, 1510 01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,023 and it just flourished. 1511 01:02:56,064 --> 01:02:57,774 It just grew into something just amazing. 1512 01:02:57,816 --> 01:03:00,027 I wouldn't have bought into it 1513 01:03:00,068 --> 01:03:02,821 had I not experienced something in the fall, 1514 01:03:02,863 --> 01:03:06,074 uh, a breathing process that I witnessed. 1515 01:03:06,116 --> 01:03:08,911 I lived it, I saw it, I saw what it does. 1516 01:03:09,411 --> 01:03:12,080 Uh, my arthritis, that I've had most of my life 1517 01:03:12,122 --> 01:03:14,416 since I came back from Iraq, doesn't exist. 1518 01:03:15,167 --> 01:03:17,461 I don't have aches and pains when I stand up anymore. 1519 01:03:17,503 --> 01:03:19,880 My stress level's significantly lower. 1520 01:03:21,673 --> 01:03:23,675 That stuff works. 1521 01:03:23,717 --> 01:03:26,428 This Reiki stuff and the yoga and all that stuff is working. 1522 01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:32,100 Later in the fall of 2021, I got a weird Facebook message 1523 01:03:32,142 --> 01:03:33,727 from one of the groups I had joined 1524 01:03:33,769 --> 01:03:35,979 regarding first responder PTSD, 1525 01:03:36,021 --> 01:03:38,148 and she was like, "I run this coaching business 1526 01:03:38,190 --> 01:03:40,108 and, you know, with what you post, 1527 01:03:40,150 --> 01:03:42,945 and, you know, everything, and what I saw in your bio, 1528 01:03:42,986 --> 01:03:44,738 you know, I really think we could be a good team." 1529 01:03:44,780 --> 01:03:46,657 And I'm like, "What's life coaching?" 1530 01:03:46,698 --> 01:03:48,367 Because it's so unheard of in the first responder world 1531 01:03:48,408 --> 01:03:49,868 because it started in the corporate-- 1532 01:03:49,910 --> 01:03:51,161 coaching started in the corporate world 1533 01:03:51,203 --> 01:03:52,996 and in the church world, 1534 01:03:53,038 --> 01:03:55,916 but as first responders, we're barely using therapists. 1535 01:03:55,958 --> 01:03:58,335 And so we start doing these-- these sessions, 1536 01:03:58,377 --> 01:04:00,796 you know, me and her, and we start setting goals. 1537 01:04:01,672 --> 01:04:03,298 What can you work on? 1538 01:04:03,340 --> 01:04:04,591 What things do you not like in your life? 1539 01:04:05,300 --> 01:04:07,094 And one of the things I didn't like was 1540 01:04:07,135 --> 01:04:08,720 the fact that I hadn't talked to my son in seven years, 1541 01:04:08,762 --> 01:04:10,347 my oldest son, 1542 01:04:10,389 --> 01:04:12,057 and then my oldest daughter in almost three. 1543 01:04:13,016 --> 01:04:15,894 And we had this conversation and we talked about goal setting 1544 01:04:15,936 --> 01:04:18,063 and perspectives and what can be done, 1545 01:04:18,105 --> 01:04:19,856 and the next day I actually called my kids. 1546 01:04:21,942 --> 01:04:24,778 And so it's become this-- this thing 1547 01:04:24,820 --> 01:04:26,947 that just fits into who I am. 1548 01:04:26,989 --> 01:04:28,490 In a coaching relationship 1549 01:04:28,532 --> 01:04:30,409 we listen on three different levels, 1550 01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:32,286 and we ask very powerful questions 1551 01:04:32,327 --> 01:04:36,415 that allow the individual to come to their own ideas 1552 01:04:36,456 --> 01:04:38,375 {\an8}and understandings about where they are right now, 1553 01:04:38,417 --> 01:04:42,337 {\an8}and help them to formulate action steps and goals 1554 01:04:42,379 --> 01:04:44,256 {\an8}to lead them into positive changes. 1555 01:04:44,298 --> 01:04:48,552 Um, the negative connotation that therapy, uh, 1556 01:04:48,594 --> 01:04:51,555 we-- we feel when we talk about therapy or counseling, 1557 01:04:51,597 --> 01:04:53,265 um, is something 1558 01:04:53,307 --> 01:04:54,182 that's very different from-- from coaching. 1559 01:04:56,059 --> 01:04:58,520 [Riggle] After years of watching himself and his peers 1560 01:04:58,562 --> 01:05:02,774 {\an8}struggling with mental health, Brian Moran opened Hilltop Farm, 1561 01:05:02,816 --> 01:05:06,111 {\an8} a retreat for friends like Keith Hanks and Brian Harkins 1562 01:05:06,153 --> 01:05:09,323 to get away from the triggers of everyday life 1563 01:05:09,364 --> 01:05:10,782 and just breathe. 1564 01:05:11,700 --> 01:05:15,537 {\an8}30-something years of working 90, 100 hours a week 1565 01:05:15,579 --> 01:05:17,623 {\an8}and now here I am at the Hilltop Farm 1566 01:05:17,664 --> 01:05:20,709 {\an8}in Mason, New Hampshire, working as a shepherd, 1567 01:05:20,751 --> 01:05:22,002 {\an8}working with my wife. 1568 01:05:22,044 --> 01:05:23,962 {\an8}We actually have survivor's guilt 1569 01:05:24,004 --> 01:05:26,089 {\an8}because we got out of health care. 1570 01:05:26,131 --> 01:05:27,299 We made the break. 1571 01:05:27,341 --> 01:05:29,092 Counseling can only do so much, 1572 01:05:29,134 --> 01:05:31,094 and I found that just talking more and more, 1573 01:05:31,136 --> 01:05:32,971 like, we talk to Keith and Brian and these other groups 1574 01:05:33,013 --> 01:05:34,181 that we're doing. 1575 01:05:34,222 --> 01:05:36,767 These retreat-like atmospheres, 1576 01:05:36,808 --> 01:05:38,602 I think they help more than the therapy. 1577 01:05:38,644 --> 01:05:40,312 There has to be more places like this place here 1578 01:05:40,354 --> 01:05:41,813 to help us out, 1579 01:05:41,855 --> 01:05:44,399 um, more relaxation for us. 1580 01:05:44,441 --> 01:05:46,735 And it's working better than the high-priced medications 1581 01:05:46,777 --> 01:05:48,070 that they want to give you. 1582 01:05:48,111 --> 01:05:49,613 Or maybe you can go out 1583 01:05:49,655 --> 01:05:51,782 and play with some sheep, you know? 1584 01:05:51,823 --> 01:05:54,284 Help trim their nails, feed them, clean the stalls. 1585 01:05:54,326 --> 01:05:55,786 You know, go out and play with the dogs 1586 01:05:55,827 --> 01:05:57,245 and run around the fields. 1587 01:05:57,287 --> 01:05:58,997 It's working. 1588 01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:00,791 We realized that one of the things we could do 1589 01:06:00,832 --> 01:06:03,210 is working the farm, working with animals, 1590 01:06:03,251 --> 01:06:04,753 that they can relax 1591 01:06:04,795 --> 01:06:06,421 and just learn how to breathe again. 1592 01:06:06,463 --> 01:06:08,507 I physically changed, 1593 01:06:08,548 --> 01:06:10,676 and I've only been here five months, 1594 01:06:10,717 --> 01:06:13,929 uh, off basically all the meds that I take, 1595 01:06:13,970 --> 01:06:16,390 uh, clean eating, clean living. 1596 01:06:16,431 --> 01:06:17,724 Uh, it's been good. 1597 01:06:17,766 --> 01:06:19,309 It's been very good. 1598 01:06:19,351 --> 01:06:21,228 And we wanted to give that to other people, 1599 01:06:21,269 --> 01:06:23,146 so we came up with a crazy idea 1600 01:06:23,188 --> 01:06:24,898 of starting to invite people out. 1601 01:06:24,940 --> 01:06:27,025 There was two good studies out of the VA, 1602 01:06:27,067 --> 01:06:31,697 uh, one for animals and one for plants and horticulture 1603 01:06:31,738 --> 01:06:34,324 that it just lowers your blood pressure, 1604 01:06:34,366 --> 01:06:37,327 get you off the medicines, calm, that kind of stuff. 1605 01:06:37,369 --> 01:06:39,204 We don't want a clinical site. 1606 01:06:39,246 --> 01:06:41,206 We just want a place 1607 01:06:41,248 --> 01:06:43,458 where you can check your luggage at the door and breathe again. 1608 01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:45,544 Sometimes we don't need to hear your story, 1609 01:06:45,585 --> 01:06:47,212 just be here. 1610 01:06:47,254 --> 01:06:49,840 And even if they just need to do it for a day, 1611 01:06:49,881 --> 01:06:52,592 it's-- it's-- sometimes the day is all that counts. 1612 01:06:52,634 --> 01:06:55,345 The day of the trades where people are working 1613 01:06:55,387 --> 01:06:57,681 and they build something and say, "I built that." 1614 01:06:57,723 --> 01:06:59,099 For us in health care, 1615 01:06:59,141 --> 01:07:00,851 and a lot of times in the military, 1616 01:07:00,892 --> 01:07:02,477 police as well, 1617 01:07:02,519 --> 01:07:04,521 you really can't put your finger on anything, 1618 01:07:04,563 --> 01:07:06,815 and so here is that moment 1619 01:07:06,857 --> 01:07:08,525 where you can have an anything. 1620 01:07:10,861 --> 01:07:15,198 What I do now is I'm an advocate for PTSD. 1621 01:07:16,199 --> 01:07:19,661 Uh, the stigma, the awareness, suicide awareness, 1622 01:07:19,703 --> 01:07:21,788 mental illness and mental wellness as a whole. 1623 01:07:23,999 --> 01:07:25,667 You know, the biggest thing... 1624 01:07:28,837 --> 01:07:30,213 what I tell people... 1625 01:07:31,590 --> 01:07:34,342 is that you gotta-- you gotta face-- 1626 01:07:34,384 --> 01:07:35,844 you gotta face the music, 1627 01:07:35,886 --> 01:07:37,387 you gotta face who you really are. 1628 01:07:37,429 --> 01:07:38,889 And that's a really hard thing for us 1629 01:07:38,930 --> 01:07:40,265 in the first responder world to do. 1630 01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,769 You know, and, you know, we're like-- 1631 01:07:43,810 --> 01:07:45,270 we won't face, you know, 1632 01:07:45,312 --> 01:07:47,272 the skeletons in our closet, right? 1633 01:07:47,314 --> 01:07:49,107 We'll go into a burning building 1634 01:07:49,149 --> 01:07:50,609 where there's absolutely no hope to find anyone alive. 1635 01:07:51,735 --> 01:07:53,278 You know, we'll go in a burning building 1636 01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:54,946 with-- with-- knowing that, you know, 1637 01:07:54,988 --> 01:07:56,740 that hose line may fail and we may get trapped 1638 01:07:56,782 --> 01:07:57,866 and we may burn alive. 1639 01:07:57,908 --> 01:07:58,992 That's okay. 1640 01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:03,121 That's okay, but facing the shit that's already happened, 1641 01:08:03,163 --> 01:08:04,956 it's already happened, it's not happening right now, 1642 01:08:04,998 --> 01:08:06,541 it happened 20 years ago... 1643 01:08:07,876 --> 01:08:09,294 that's too scary to deal with... 1644 01:08:11,379 --> 01:08:12,964 but if you're going to heal, 1645 01:08:13,006 --> 01:08:14,591 and you're gonna have longevity in the job, 1646 01:08:14,633 --> 01:08:16,259 and you're gonna be a better, you know, 1647 01:08:16,301 --> 01:08:18,428 father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, 1648 01:08:18,470 --> 01:08:20,472 whatever it is you are, 1649 01:08:20,514 --> 01:08:21,848 you gotta face that shit... 1650 01:08:23,141 --> 01:08:24,643 because it's not going away until you do. 1651 01:08:25,435 --> 01:08:26,520 It's gonna stay there. 1652 01:08:29,314 --> 01:08:32,818 {\an8}I think the message is that you are not alone, 1653 01:08:32,859 --> 01:08:36,947 {\an8}that we have resources, we have support. 1654 01:08:36,988 --> 01:08:38,949 Hopefully, someone starting today, 1655 01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:41,743 in 30 years will go-- look back and go, 1656 01:08:41,785 --> 01:08:44,830 "Geez, the culture now is better," 1657 01:08:44,871 --> 01:08:46,873 or, you know, they can't even imagine 1658 01:08:46,915 --> 01:08:48,708 where I came from. 1659 01:08:48,750 --> 01:08:50,502 Coffee and doughnuts were always in the back. [laughs] 1660 01:08:50,544 --> 01:08:52,045 It's pretty funny. 1661 01:08:52,087 --> 01:08:53,088 You're leaving an asset on the table 1662 01:08:53,129 --> 01:08:54,256 as far as I'm concerned. 1663 01:08:54,881 --> 01:08:56,883 You should make sure you check in with people. 1664 01:08:56,925 --> 01:08:59,511 The biggest thing is don't try and deal with it on your own. 1665 01:08:59,553 --> 01:09:01,179 If you need help, get the help. 1666 01:09:02,305 --> 01:09:05,892 There are plenty of things out there nowadays. 1667 01:09:05,934 --> 01:09:08,311 I think the mentality that we have to lose, 1668 01:09:08,353 --> 01:09:10,230 so important that we have to lose, 1669 01:09:10,272 --> 01:09:14,192 is that man, woman, child, you still have feelings 1670 01:09:14,234 --> 01:09:15,694 and what you see... 1671 01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,573 and how awful those things are need to be talked about. 1672 01:09:19,614 --> 01:09:22,534 It's not necessarily spouting off all the answers. 1673 01:09:22,576 --> 01:09:24,452 It's, "Here's where you want to look," 1674 01:09:24,494 --> 01:09:26,705 you know, "Here are some things you want to be a part of." 1675 01:09:26,746 --> 01:09:28,415 It's, "Here's the other resources 1676 01:09:28,456 --> 01:09:30,417 that can help you," and that's a good thing. 1677 01:09:30,458 --> 01:09:33,378 You know, whether you grew up in the fire service or not, 1678 01:09:33,420 --> 01:09:37,799 you need to take a breath, and if it's a bad thing 1679 01:09:37,841 --> 01:09:40,677 or you're having a tough time, to always come back, 1680 01:09:40,719 --> 01:09:43,346 and that's what the firehouse kitchen table's for. 1681 01:09:43,388 --> 01:09:45,765 I've already seen quite a few things, 1682 01:09:45,807 --> 01:09:48,602 and I know that I'm gonna continue to see that. 1683 01:09:48,643 --> 01:09:50,604 And I'm okay with that 'cause I love this job... 1684 01:09:51,980 --> 01:09:53,815 but I'm mostly okay with it 1685 01:09:53,857 --> 01:09:56,067 because I know now I have the tools to deal with it. 1686 01:09:56,109 --> 01:09:57,944 You know, you're a firefighter, 1687 01:09:57,986 --> 01:09:59,571 you're supposed to go out and help everybody, and-- 1688 01:09:59,613 --> 01:10:01,907 but the problem is, it's like who helps us? 1689 01:10:01,948 --> 01:10:04,576 Let's just-- let's just find a way to help and get through it, 1690 01:10:04,618 --> 01:10:07,078 because if I'm not on point at work right now 1691 01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,331 'cause I'm worried about what happened the other day, 1692 01:10:09,372 --> 01:10:11,291 I'm gonna be ineffective and something bad could happen 1693 01:10:11,333 --> 01:10:12,792 to any one of these people in the public 1694 01:10:12,834 --> 01:10:14,294 that I'm supposed to help. 1695 01:10:14,336 --> 01:10:16,630 You're not a victim of your past, 1696 01:10:16,671 --> 01:10:19,799 you are who you are as a product of your past, 1697 01:10:19,841 --> 01:10:24,220 but it doesn't change you as a human 1698 01:10:24,262 --> 01:10:26,014 in terms of your good qualities. 1699 01:10:26,056 --> 01:10:28,308 Those things you can't take back that you can only-- 1700 01:10:28,350 --> 01:10:30,560 you can only do better from this point forward... 1701 01:10:31,645 --> 01:10:33,813 that I'm now facing with my-- with my two older kids. 1702 01:10:33,855 --> 01:10:35,482 And-- and how do you do that? 1703 01:10:36,399 --> 01:10:38,902 As a-- as a man in his-- in his almost mid-40s now 1704 01:10:38,944 --> 01:10:40,779 with two adult children... 1705 01:10:41,863 --> 01:10:44,366 now my battle is, how do I fix that bridge? 1706 01:10:45,367 --> 01:10:46,826 How do I prove to them that 1707 01:10:46,868 --> 01:10:48,578 I'm not angry, scary Daddy anymore? 1708 01:10:49,454 --> 01:10:51,998 Riley, she's never known me as a firefighter. 1709 01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:53,959 She's never seen me run off to a call, 1710 01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,711 She's never-- I've never had to leave on a 48-hour shift. 1711 01:10:58,296 --> 01:11:01,925 She also hasn't seen me as the Incredible Hulk. 1712 01:11:01,967 --> 01:11:03,093 She's seen me as Daddy. 1713 01:11:04,511 --> 01:11:06,763 And I am so grateful for that. 1714 01:11:06,805 --> 01:11:11,851 {\an8}♪ 1715 01:11:25,031 --> 01:11:27,409 {\an8}["Whatever You Say" by Dark Sky Reserve playing] 1716 01:11:46,469 --> 01:11:48,888 ♪ And some things won't leave you ♪ 1717 01:11:50,974 --> 01:11:53,351 ♪ No matter how hard you try ♪ 1718 01:11:55,228 --> 01:11:58,314 ♪ They stay in the distance ♪ 1719 01:11:58,356 --> 01:12:02,235 ♪ Like the moon stays with the sky ♪ 1720 01:12:04,237 --> 01:12:06,740 ♪ Some folks have to wander ♪ 1721 01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:10,952 ♪ No matter how far they go ♪ 1722 01:12:12,996 --> 01:12:19,919 ♪ Still drawn together like the body and the soul ♪ 1723 01:12:22,172 --> 01:12:25,216 ♪ You and I had a difference ♪ 1724 01:12:26,426 --> 01:12:29,679 ♪ We've caught up in the flood ♪ 1725 01:12:30,889 --> 01:12:36,269 ♪ We live just outside of of the moon ♪ 1726 01:12:36,311 --> 01:12:38,313 ♪ And blood ♪ 1727 01:12:39,522 --> 01:12:42,609 ♪ I need a drag 'cause I want to drown ♪ 1728 01:12:45,070 --> 01:12:51,576 ♪ Hurry up, try not to wake us up ♪ 1729 01:12:51,618 --> 01:12:55,121 ♪ I didn't want to let you down ♪ 1730 01:12:58,291 --> 01:13:02,045 ♪ I didn't want to let you down ♪ 1731 01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,361 ♪ Not what I had coming ♪ 1732 01:13:28,696 --> 01:13:30,615 ♪ I guess I should've known ♪ 1733 01:13:32,909 --> 01:13:35,620 ♪ I left with all the splinters ♪ 1734 01:13:36,538 --> 01:13:40,250 ♪ The crushing of the bones ♪ 1735 01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,087 {\an8} ♪ The words you say about me ♪ 1736 01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:48,758 {\an8} ♪ You know I'm still the same ♪