1 00:00:34,201 --> 00:00:36,036 [reel clicking] 2 00:00:40,791 --> 00:00:42,710 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] The end of the 1950s, 3 00:00:42,793 --> 00:00:45,671 that's a time that we generally associate 4 00:00:45,755 --> 00:00:50,426 with this kind of perfect ideal of the American suburb. 5 00:00:50,509 --> 00:00:55,598 2.5 children, the picket fence, the husband going off to work, 6 00:00:55,681 --> 00:00:59,059 the woman staying at home and tending the family. 7 00:00:59,143 --> 00:01:00,519 What's new, Hasbro? 8 00:01:00,603 --> 00:01:02,438 Mr. and Mrs. Potato Head, 9 00:01:02,521 --> 00:01:04,356 with their own cars and trailers. 10 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,485 That's what's new. 11 00:01:07,568 --> 00:01:10,196 Was that in reality, what was actually happening 12 00:01:10,279 --> 00:01:11,363 the entire time? 13 00:01:11,447 --> 00:01:14,074 Of course not. Of course not. 14 00:01:28,714 --> 00:01:32,551 [man] In 1957, this small-town Wisconsin horror story 15 00:01:32,635 --> 00:01:36,222 was being exposed to the world. 16 00:01:36,305 --> 00:01:38,891 The shock and the fear that suddenly gripped them 17 00:01:38,974 --> 00:01:43,521 when the grisly tale of Ed Gein became public. 18 00:01:51,737 --> 00:01:54,740 [Lee] When you listen to the tape of Ed Gein, 19 00:01:54,824 --> 00:01:59,829 you almost anticipate hearing somebody act like a monster. 20 00:02:08,254 --> 00:02:09,547 There seems to be a real disconnect 21 00:02:09,630 --> 00:02:13,551 between this meek, quiet, solitary person 22 00:02:13,634 --> 00:02:17,805 and the gruesome things that they've discovered at his house. 23 00:02:32,444 --> 00:02:35,447 There's a number of questions when you analyze the Gein case. 24 00:02:35,531 --> 00:02:38,158 Did he have sexual relations with the bodies? 25 00:02:40,369 --> 00:02:43,330 Could he have eaten some of the victims? 26 00:02:51,297 --> 00:02:55,301 There's very little that Gein is not capable of. 27 00:03:22,411 --> 00:03:24,580 [reel clicking] 28 00:03:24,663 --> 00:03:28,792 [Lee] Ed Gein's story is just so gruesome. 29 00:03:28,876 --> 00:03:32,713 Most people can't imagine what it would be like 30 00:03:32,796 --> 00:03:36,759 to excavate a corpse from the ground 31 00:03:36,842 --> 00:03:39,511 and then take the head and the skull 32 00:03:39,595 --> 00:03:43,015 and then create objects out of the parts 33 00:03:43,098 --> 00:03:47,227 that you take from a rotten corpse. 34 00:04:15,839 --> 00:04:20,678 [man speaking indistinctly on tape] 35 00:04:35,109 --> 00:04:37,403 [Berrill] I'm looking at additional records, 36 00:04:37,486 --> 00:04:39,571 maybe a little deeper into the records 37 00:04:39,655 --> 00:04:43,993 based on his initial examination and evaluation 38 00:04:44,076 --> 00:04:46,620 at Central State Hospital. 39 00:04:46,704 --> 00:04:50,416 Edward Gein talks about constructing masks 40 00:04:50,499 --> 00:04:56,380 out of the skin from the skulls of some of the people he dug up. 41 00:05:00,801 --> 00:05:06,306 And then putting these masks on his own face. 42 00:05:23,532 --> 00:05:28,912 One could conjecture that in doing so, 43 00:05:28,996 --> 00:05:31,874 that is to say, putting these masks on, 44 00:05:31,957 --> 00:05:34,460 is this a way of transforming himself 45 00:05:34,543 --> 00:05:37,463 or being a different person for a moment? 46 00:05:37,546 --> 00:05:41,967 Is this a way of relating to the corpses 47 00:05:42,051 --> 00:05:44,636 and becoming intimate with them? 48 00:05:49,975 --> 00:05:54,605 He doesn't really talk about being sickened by the behavior. 49 00:05:54,688 --> 00:05:57,858 So clearly this had meaning for him 50 00:05:57,941 --> 00:06:00,527 and this was important to him. 51 00:06:03,697 --> 00:06:07,826 [Schechter] We know that he had these face masks. 52 00:06:08,494 --> 00:06:12,623 Some of which he hung on his wall as trophies. 53 00:06:12,706 --> 00:06:14,917 You know, this is where Tobe Hooper 54 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,504 got the whole Leatherface idea from. 55 00:06:21,632 --> 00:06:23,675 [camera whirring] 56 00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,762 [Lee] I remember watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre 57 00:06:26,845 --> 00:06:30,099 for the first time when I was in high school. 58 00:06:30,182 --> 00:06:32,184 The thing that always stood out to me 59 00:06:32,267 --> 00:06:34,978 was the grittiness of how it was shot. 60 00:06:35,062 --> 00:06:37,523 [camera whirring] 61 00:06:37,606 --> 00:06:41,401 And the fact that it seemed almost in parts 62 00:06:41,485 --> 00:06:44,113 like a snuff video. 63 00:06:44,196 --> 00:06:47,116 The fact that Leatherface, the character was loosely 64 00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:51,870 based on Ed Gein and because of the kind of things that he was 65 00:06:51,954 --> 00:06:54,039 doing with people's skin. 66 00:06:56,959 --> 00:07:00,712 The house that Texas Chainsaw Massacre is modeled upon... 67 00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:02,548 [camera whirring] 68 00:07:04,716 --> 00:07:07,886 ...was the home of Ed Gein. 69 00:07:08,679 --> 00:07:11,056 The word that people used over and over again 70 00:07:11,140 --> 00:07:15,227 after they discovered the house was "revolting." 71 00:07:15,310 --> 00:07:17,563 [Henry] There's something about his home to me 72 00:07:17,646 --> 00:07:21,859 is very indicative of who he was, too. 73 00:07:22,568 --> 00:07:24,653 There's just something about serial killers 74 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:28,115 and kind of like what their homes come to represent to them. 75 00:07:28,198 --> 00:07:30,742 Like there's a house out there where there shouldn't be. 76 00:07:30,826 --> 00:07:32,578 And there's also a bunch of fucked up stuff 77 00:07:32,661 --> 00:07:35,205 happening inside of that house where it shouldn't be. 78 00:07:48,218 --> 00:07:50,846 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] I love this shot where Pamela 79 00:07:50,929 --> 00:07:53,223 is walking up to the house for the first time. 80 00:07:53,307 --> 00:07:55,809 It's shot almost at ground level. 81 00:07:55,893 --> 00:08:01,064 We have lots of camera movement as she's walking in, 82 00:08:01,148 --> 00:08:05,027 and now she's about to enter this really, really awful room, 83 00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:07,779 the room that is, of course, drawing in large part 84 00:08:07,863 --> 00:08:11,783 on what Ed Gein's house would have looked like. 85 00:08:12,201 --> 00:08:15,078 [clattering] 86 00:08:15,162 --> 00:08:16,955 [chicken clucking] 87 00:08:17,039 --> 00:08:20,751 There is so much about Texas Chainsaw Massacre 88 00:08:20,834 --> 00:08:24,296 that just feels so gritty, so grimy, 89 00:08:24,379 --> 00:08:26,924 and like you are stuck in this house 90 00:08:27,007 --> 00:08:31,637 with this entire horrifying family and you can't get out. 91 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,640 That to me was so much of what made it so scary. 92 00:08:34,723 --> 00:08:37,893 It felt completely immersive because it felt so urgent, 93 00:08:37,976 --> 00:08:39,228 so real. 94 00:08:39,311 --> 00:08:41,021 [camera whirring] 95 00:08:41,104 --> 00:08:43,732 The other reason that it's so urgent, 96 00:08:43,815 --> 00:08:46,068 it's so visceral, it's so upsetting 97 00:08:46,151 --> 00:08:50,155 is because not only is it based on a real moment, 98 00:08:50,239 --> 00:08:54,243 but the house that Tobe Hooper and the crew 99 00:08:54,326 --> 00:08:56,745 used to shoot Texas Chainsaw Massacre, 100 00:08:56,828 --> 00:09:00,040 well, they had filled it with all of these animal parts, 101 00:09:00,123 --> 00:09:02,960 and these animal parts were sitting there for days. 102 00:09:03,043 --> 00:09:05,963 [coughing] 103 00:09:06,046 --> 00:09:07,881 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] She's really experiencing 104 00:09:07,965 --> 00:09:11,218 what it's like to be in a room with all of those dead animals, 105 00:09:11,301 --> 00:09:15,222 all of those bits of rotting animals. 106 00:09:15,305 --> 00:09:17,015 [gasping] 107 00:09:17,099 --> 00:09:19,643 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] And of course, she's trying to get away 108 00:09:19,726 --> 00:09:21,895 from all of these horrors, this is, of course, the moment 109 00:09:21,979 --> 00:09:24,022 when Leatherface comes out. 110 00:09:24,106 --> 00:09:27,192 [screaming] 111 00:09:27,276 --> 00:09:31,029 He's called Leatherface because he has a collection of masks 112 00:09:31,113 --> 00:09:33,740 that he has made out of human skin. 113 00:09:33,824 --> 00:09:35,659 [woman screams] 114 00:09:38,328 --> 00:09:40,289 That's the thing that really sticks out to me 115 00:09:40,372 --> 00:09:41,873 in terms of Ed Gein. 116 00:09:41,957 --> 00:09:44,710 It's the fact that he repurposed people's bodies. 117 00:09:44,793 --> 00:09:48,088 And that's what's so upsetting about him. 118 00:09:48,171 --> 00:09:49,047 [chuckles] 119 00:10:04,896 --> 00:10:08,233 [indistinct talking on tape] 120 00:10:49,274 --> 00:10:52,069 [Schlesinger] What makes Gein stand out is what he did 121 00:10:52,152 --> 00:10:53,445 with the bodies. 122 00:10:53,528 --> 00:10:56,198 If you look at a group of sexual murderers, 123 00:10:56,281 --> 00:10:59,785 only about 6% have engaged in necrophilia. 124 00:11:03,205 --> 00:11:06,291 [reporter] Police say these two young men have committed an act 125 00:11:06,375 --> 00:11:10,379 that is so unthinkable there isn't even a law against it. 126 00:11:10,462 --> 00:11:15,342 The men allegedly sexually assaulted two female corpses. 127 00:11:15,425 --> 00:11:18,220 Webster's Dictionary describes necrophilia 128 00:11:18,303 --> 00:11:21,807 as "an erotic attraction to corpses." 129 00:11:21,890 --> 00:11:23,683 [Schlesinger] Necrophilia is a paraphilia. 130 00:11:23,767 --> 00:11:26,228 It's an abnormal sexual arousal pattern. 131 00:11:26,311 --> 00:11:29,106 There's many different types of paraphilias. 132 00:11:29,189 --> 00:11:30,982 Pedophilia is a paraphilia. 133 00:11:31,066 --> 00:11:34,486 Fetishism, sexual arousal to non-living objects 134 00:11:34,569 --> 00:11:35,862 is a paraphilia. 135 00:11:35,946 --> 00:11:37,155 Voyeurism. 136 00:11:37,239 --> 00:11:39,241 Necrophilia is another paraphilia. 137 00:11:39,324 --> 00:11:42,077 Historically, law enforcers here in Florida charged 138 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,830 necrophiliacs with sexual battery. 139 00:11:44,913 --> 00:11:47,332 That is until a few years ago when a circuit court 140 00:11:47,416 --> 00:11:50,210 in South Florida ruled that consent is no longer 141 00:11:50,293 --> 00:11:53,046 an issue if a person is dead. 142 00:11:54,214 --> 00:11:58,427 [Schlesinger] We understand the psychopathology of sexual murder 143 00:11:58,510 --> 00:12:01,721 and all these other sorts of bizarre paraphilias 144 00:12:01,805 --> 00:12:05,350 much better today than they did in the 1950s. 145 00:12:05,434 --> 00:12:08,228 [narrator] Every mental illness has its causes associated 146 00:12:08,311 --> 00:12:10,897 with a patient's character, his upbringing, 147 00:12:10,981 --> 00:12:13,400 and the joys and sorrows he has gone through. 148 00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:18,196 [Schlesinger] The motivation for the vast majority of 149 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:23,994 necrophiliacs is that a dead body is not threatening. 150 00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:28,123 Because these are people internally that feel weak 151 00:12:28,206 --> 00:12:31,042 and inadequate. 152 00:12:31,126 --> 00:12:34,212 The vast majority of offenders kill the person, 153 00:12:34,296 --> 00:12:37,215 then for some reason, they're stimulated by the dead body 154 00:12:37,299 --> 00:12:38,884 and penetrate the body. 155 00:12:38,967 --> 00:12:43,305 In that case, the body is basically still warm. 156 00:12:43,388 --> 00:12:46,433 Not every case involving necrophilia 157 00:12:46,516 --> 00:12:48,185 involves sexual murder. 158 00:12:48,268 --> 00:12:49,561 I had a case of a guy 159 00:12:49,644 --> 00:12:52,898 who was a histology technician in a hospital, 160 00:12:52,981 --> 00:12:54,941 went to the morgue where they kept the slides 161 00:12:55,025 --> 00:12:56,943 because it was cool. 162 00:12:57,027 --> 00:12:59,779 When security left, he took out the corpse, 163 00:12:59,863 --> 00:13:02,991 the refrigerated corpse of a 91-year-old woman, 164 00:13:03,074 --> 00:13:07,454 penetrated her sexually using a latex glove as a condom. 165 00:13:07,537 --> 00:13:09,039 He didn't kill anybody. 166 00:13:09,122 --> 00:13:12,417 But you go where your psychology leads you. 167 00:13:12,501 --> 00:13:14,419 [camera shutter clicks] 168 00:13:14,503 --> 00:13:18,048 With respect to Ed Gein, 169 00:13:18,131 --> 00:13:22,427 this was not a spontaneous act where he killed somebody 170 00:13:22,511 --> 00:13:23,970 and then he penetrated the person. 171 00:13:24,054 --> 00:13:27,849 No, he was highly motivated to get corpses. 172 00:13:42,239 --> 00:13:46,409 Gein, he's creating items from, most of its genitals 173 00:13:46,493 --> 00:13:49,120 and vaginas and nipples 174 00:13:49,204 --> 00:13:52,499 and these sorts of things, in addition to skin. 175 00:13:52,582 --> 00:13:56,086 In Gein's case, he was wearing human skin, 176 00:13:56,169 --> 00:13:59,339 getting into human skin, this type of thing. 177 00:14:03,134 --> 00:14:07,222 [Berrill] You have to remember that this this guy, Ed, 178 00:14:07,305 --> 00:14:12,644 grew up with more rage probably than anyone could ever imagine. 179 00:14:12,727 --> 00:14:15,605 And even though he couldn't readily 180 00:14:15,689 --> 00:14:19,276 express it, when you're that angry, 181 00:14:19,359 --> 00:14:22,904 you either directed outward or you direct it inward. 182 00:14:22,988 --> 00:14:27,492 You become a murderer, or you become sadistic, 183 00:14:27,576 --> 00:14:30,495 or you become perversely involved 184 00:14:30,579 --> 00:14:32,372 in the kinds of activities 185 00:14:32,455 --> 00:14:35,292 that he found himself involved in. 186 00:14:36,167 --> 00:14:41,881 It's is perverse and bizarre as it can possibly be. 187 00:14:51,641 --> 00:14:53,977 No. 188 00:14:54,060 --> 00:14:58,273 No. Well, as I said, there is a very rare delusion 189 00:14:58,356 --> 00:14:59,524 involving skin. 190 00:14:59,608 --> 00:15:01,443 I did have a case where a person thought 191 00:15:01,526 --> 00:15:03,194 that his brother was wearing a skin suit 192 00:15:03,278 --> 00:15:05,363 and he was an imposter and wound up killing him. 193 00:15:05,447 --> 00:15:09,200 But I've never had a case where a person wanted to wear 194 00:15:09,284 --> 00:15:10,368 somebody else's skin. 195 00:15:10,452 --> 00:15:11,995 I don't think I ever heard of a case 196 00:15:12,078 --> 00:15:15,415 like that in the annals of crime. 197 00:15:43,109 --> 00:15:47,572 Shortly after Augusta died, Ed Gein closed off her room. 198 00:15:47,656 --> 00:15:49,324 And, you know, it was the only room 199 00:15:49,407 --> 00:15:52,035 in the house that he never entered. 200 00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:55,038 He made it into a kind of little shrine. 201 00:15:57,582 --> 00:16:01,252 You don't have to go much further than look at his home. 202 00:16:01,336 --> 00:16:06,633 The place was total disarray, cluttered, dirt, 203 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:10,970 garbage, smelled of rotting flesh and all the rest. 204 00:16:11,054 --> 00:16:12,555 And then look at his mother's room. 205 00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:16,685 It was completely preserved, neat, the way she left it. 206 00:16:29,489 --> 00:16:31,616 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] That's what's so, so unsettling about 207 00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,119 watching Psycho. 208 00:16:34,202 --> 00:16:37,622 Here in Psycho, we have it linked up with the possibility 209 00:16:37,706 --> 00:16:39,791 of it actually being a real story. 210 00:16:39,874 --> 00:16:42,377 And that makes it really, really scary. 211 00:16:44,379 --> 00:16:46,506 Mrs. Bates? 212 00:16:48,717 --> 00:16:53,138 Norman Bates' motivation to kill is that he has this 213 00:16:53,221 --> 00:16:55,473 long-term obsession with his mother 214 00:16:55,557 --> 00:16:59,644 that's so much in keeping with Hitchcock's more raw approach. 215 00:16:59,728 --> 00:17:01,688 [camera shutter clicks] 216 00:17:08,653 --> 00:17:09,779 [Berrill] You can love your parents. 217 00:17:09,863 --> 00:17:12,699 But still, a healthy person strives, 218 00:17:12,782 --> 00:17:14,659 in a sense to be able to formulate 219 00:17:14,743 --> 00:17:18,747 some kind of critique of what, you know, you like 220 00:17:18,830 --> 00:17:21,666 or didn't like about the way they raised you. 221 00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:25,170 I don't think he was able to do that in any conscious way. 222 00:17:25,253 --> 00:17:31,259 So there's a kind of closeness that's pathologic. 223 00:17:31,342 --> 00:17:34,304 Could not separate himself emotionally, 224 00:17:34,387 --> 00:17:36,598 psychologically from his mother. 225 00:17:36,681 --> 00:17:39,184 This is all in his mind. 226 00:17:42,812 --> 00:17:45,648 [Schechter] One of the most infamous aspects of 227 00:17:45,732 --> 00:17:51,279 the Gein case, it's the one that Thomas Harris employed in 228 00:17:51,362 --> 00:17:56,743 Silence of the Lambs, was Gein making a skin suit. 229 00:18:00,288 --> 00:18:05,835 He flayed the legs from a corpse. 230 00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:07,879 He flayed the upper torso, 231 00:18:07,962 --> 00:18:11,382 including the breasts from a corpse. 232 00:18:11,466 --> 00:18:13,218 He dried them. 233 00:18:13,301 --> 00:18:15,595 He apparently attached some kind of strings, 234 00:18:15,678 --> 00:18:18,765 and he would put on this skin suit. 235 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,529 The skin suit, I think, has an entirely different 236 00:18:32,612 --> 00:18:36,241 meaning for him than anything else that he did 237 00:18:36,324 --> 00:18:38,159 with these bodies. 238 00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:46,417 I think the skin suit was the real project. 239 00:18:48,962 --> 00:18:52,340 It raises a couple of possibilities. 240 00:18:52,423 --> 00:19:00,265 Is this his way of becoming more intimate with Mother? 241 00:19:00,348 --> 00:19:03,142 If not literally his mother. 242 00:19:06,563 --> 00:19:09,399 [Lee] I think that with what we know about his attachment 243 00:19:09,482 --> 00:19:12,277 to his mother, that that is a much more 244 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,238 kind of compelling example of him role playing 245 00:19:15,321 --> 00:19:19,659 and desperately just trying to feel her presence again, 246 00:19:19,742 --> 00:19:24,414 even if it means just stepping into this suit that he's made. 247 00:19:27,584 --> 00:19:30,795 My understanding of the case is the reason he couldn't 248 00:19:30,879 --> 00:19:33,673 disinter his mother is I think there was cement 249 00:19:33,756 --> 00:19:35,967 around the coffin itself, which often happens 250 00:19:36,050 --> 00:19:39,304 in some cemeteries for erosion reasons and so on. 251 00:19:39,387 --> 00:19:41,431 I think that was his problem. 252 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,812 [Marcus] I think Ed was far too scared of his mother 253 00:19:47,896 --> 00:19:50,857 to ever even attempt to to dig her up, 254 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:52,692 because I think it had to be her choice. 255 00:19:52,775 --> 00:19:54,319 It had to be something that she wanted. 256 00:19:54,402 --> 00:19:56,446 He was never going to make her do anything 257 00:19:56,529 --> 00:19:58,740 that she didn't want to do, and she was only going to 258 00:19:58,823 --> 00:20:00,825 come out of that grave if she wanted to come out. 259 00:20:00,909 --> 00:20:02,619 All men should respect women so much. 260 00:20:02,702 --> 00:20:04,329 -Sure. -Yeah. 261 00:20:04,412 --> 00:20:05,830 -[laughter] -That's great. 262 00:20:05,914 --> 00:20:08,374 Because he can't bring his mother's corpse back 263 00:20:08,458 --> 00:20:11,586 to the home where he wants to have his mother, 264 00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:15,506 the skin suit becomes a type of role play 265 00:20:15,590 --> 00:20:20,219 where he can step into the skin of his mother, 266 00:20:20,303 --> 00:20:22,597 even though it's not the skin of his mother. 267 00:20:29,604 --> 00:20:34,317 You can step into some object that represents his mother, 268 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,863 and for whatever period of time, he can kind of resuscitate her 269 00:20:38,947 --> 00:20:42,575 and play as if he is her. 270 00:20:42,659 --> 00:20:46,037 My hobby is stuffing things, you know, taxidermy. 271 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:47,413 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] So clearly, 272 00:20:47,497 --> 00:20:49,374 both Norman Bates and Ed Gein 273 00:20:49,457 --> 00:20:51,793 are a little bit obsessed with their mothers. 274 00:20:51,876 --> 00:20:55,254 A man should have a hobby. 275 00:20:55,338 --> 00:20:57,465 Well, it's... 276 00:20:57,548 --> 00:20:59,676 It's more than a hobby. 277 00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:01,427 [Szchepaniak-Gillece] In the scene, we start 278 00:21:01,511 --> 00:21:04,931 to learn a little bit more about Norman Bates' mother. 279 00:21:05,014 --> 00:21:08,393 We're also learning that he's very into taxidermy. 280 00:21:13,564 --> 00:21:16,401 We'll learn later, at the end of the film, that Norman Bates 281 00:21:16,484 --> 00:21:20,446 has been keeping his mother taxidermied in his house. 282 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:33,501 It speaks to this idea of the 1950s American family ideal, 283 00:21:33,584 --> 00:21:35,003 where you should respect your mother, 284 00:21:35,086 --> 00:21:36,796 you should adore your mother, 285 00:21:36,879 --> 00:21:38,756 and then how easily that gets kind of twisted 286 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,927 into absolute obsession and absolute darkness. 287 00:21:43,011 --> 00:21:44,762 I think this is a real moment 288 00:21:44,846 --> 00:21:49,976 where we see horror as a genre developing this notion. 289 00:21:54,939 --> 00:21:57,316 Look, Mama. 290 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,318 I brought you a visitor. 291 00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:12,707 [man] That's what bothers me, 292 00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:14,959 because you're not very big, are you? 293 00:22:15,043 --> 00:22:17,336 [Schechter] In terms of the skin suit he made, 294 00:22:17,420 --> 00:22:22,717 a lot of what Gein did had to do with resurrecting his mother. 295 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,969 But the other part of it is, you know, 296 00:22:25,053 --> 00:22:28,931 Gein's fantasy about becoming a woman. 297 00:22:32,143 --> 00:22:39,442 We know that he avidly read stories about this ex G.I. 298 00:22:39,525 --> 00:22:43,821 who went to Sweden 299 00:22:43,905 --> 00:22:47,867 and had a sex-change operation. 300 00:22:53,956 --> 00:22:57,543 And came back as Christine Jorgensen. 301 00:23:01,589 --> 00:23:04,467 [man] Christine Jorgensen, who made world headlines 302 00:23:04,550 --> 00:23:07,678 when she was transformed from a former G.I. into a woman, 303 00:23:07,762 --> 00:23:10,640 is now a Woman of the Year, a title bestowed upon her 304 00:23:10,723 --> 00:23:14,685 by the Scandinavian Societies of Greater New York. 305 00:23:14,769 --> 00:23:17,480 [camera shutter clicks] 306 00:23:18,272 --> 00:23:20,483 [Schechter] There was a lot of publicity about 307 00:23:20,566 --> 00:23:25,029 Christine Jorgensen, and Ed followed that case very closely. 308 00:23:25,113 --> 00:23:30,576 I am deeply honored and most sincerely touched. 309 00:23:33,162 --> 00:23:34,997 [Marcus] Ed Gein was also obsessed with 310 00:23:35,081 --> 00:23:36,791 the Christine Jorgensen case. 311 00:23:36,874 --> 00:23:39,085 When he was interviewed by psychiatrist later on, 312 00:23:39,168 --> 00:23:41,212 he did say that when he was a little boy, 313 00:23:41,295 --> 00:23:44,006 he did often wonder what it would be like 314 00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:45,133 to be a little girl. 315 00:23:45,216 --> 00:23:46,634 Oh, yeah. 316 00:23:46,717 --> 00:23:48,928 I mean, it's weird because the entire thing 317 00:23:49,011 --> 00:23:52,014 is filtered through the lens of Ed Gein. 318 00:23:52,098 --> 00:23:53,933 You know, it's still filtered through this like, 319 00:23:54,016 --> 00:23:55,685 demented lens. 320 00:23:55,768 --> 00:23:56,936 [Ben] But he definitely was looking 321 00:23:57,019 --> 00:23:58,437 for a sense of self, though, right? 322 00:23:58,521 --> 00:23:59,647 He's trying to figure out who he is. 323 00:23:59,730 --> 00:24:01,482 -Surely. -And what is he doing 324 00:24:01,566 --> 00:24:02,650 in Plainfield, Wisconsin? 325 00:24:02,733 --> 00:24:04,193 What's the point of life? 326 00:24:04,277 --> 00:24:07,113 And I guess it just led to him making a skin suit. 327 00:24:10,825 --> 00:24:14,829 [Berrill] If you're inclined or sensitive to or vulnerable 328 00:24:14,912 --> 00:24:19,041 to input from magazines or movies you see 329 00:24:19,125 --> 00:24:21,460 or stuff you read, 330 00:24:21,544 --> 00:24:24,714 you know, it may find its way into your imagination 331 00:24:24,797 --> 00:24:29,468 and then start to incorporate that into your own fantasy life. 332 00:24:31,721 --> 00:24:34,891 You know, I think about things like sexual identity 333 00:24:34,974 --> 00:24:38,102 and sort of, who was this guy sexually? 334 00:24:38,186 --> 00:24:40,605 And I don't know if he knew, 335 00:24:40,688 --> 00:24:44,525 but it would seem as though he never had sex. 336 00:24:46,652 --> 00:24:49,780 Seem as though his mother cautioned him 337 00:24:49,864 --> 00:24:54,827 that you shouldn't have sex unless you marry a woman. 338 00:24:55,578 --> 00:25:02,710 So, was there something sexually gratifying about this? 339 00:25:07,715 --> 00:25:10,801 [Schlesinger] Necrophiliacs disinter bodies for the purpose 340 00:25:10,885 --> 00:25:12,803 of having sex with the corpse. 341 00:25:12,887 --> 00:25:14,305 That's why they're doing it. 342 00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:16,307 In Gein's case, it could have been 343 00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:18,059 that he wanted to have sex with his mother. 344 00:25:18,142 --> 00:25:20,728 There's certainly a lot of Oedipal dynamics 345 00:25:20,811 --> 00:25:21,979 that psychologists and psychiatrists 346 00:25:22,063 --> 00:25:24,232 talk about all the time. 347 00:25:24,315 --> 00:25:26,108 He may have been to the point 348 00:25:26,192 --> 00:25:33,741 where his years of wallowing in this very bizarre lifestyle 349 00:25:33,824 --> 00:25:36,744 just wasn't doing the trick for him anymore. 350 00:25:41,165 --> 00:25:44,043 It might be satisfying on some level for him 351 00:25:44,126 --> 00:25:48,798 for many years to defile dead bodies. 352 00:25:50,424 --> 00:25:54,679 But there's nothing more powerful than killing someone. 353 00:26:04,397 --> 00:26:07,024 [reel clicking] 354 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:21,289 [winding, clicking] 355 00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:47,773 [camera whirring] 356 00:26:50,860 --> 00:26:56,073 Mary Hogan, there are all kinds of rumors about her background. 357 00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:58,659 She was a plain-spoken woman, 358 00:26:58,743 --> 00:27:01,912 apparently with somewhat of a profane tongue, 359 00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:06,083 who ran this little roadhouse tavern that Eddie 360 00:27:06,167 --> 00:27:08,627 sometimes patronized. 361 00:27:13,341 --> 00:27:18,137 Mrs. Hogan, that was the little tavern up there 362 00:27:18,220 --> 00:27:19,722 north of where our farm was. 363 00:27:19,805 --> 00:27:22,808 It was probably four miles up there. 364 00:27:23,809 --> 00:27:27,396 [Schechter] Mary Hogan, Ed Gein sort of saw her 365 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,276 as this dark shadow side of his mother. 366 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:35,446 You know, where his mother was a saintly figure, 367 00:27:35,529 --> 00:27:41,035 Mary Hogan was the embodiment of all that was most corrupt. 368 00:27:43,746 --> 00:27:48,459 Some customer came in, saw evidence that there had been 369 00:27:48,542 --> 00:27:52,421 some kind of commotion in the tavern. 370 00:27:58,886 --> 00:28:00,805 Mary Hogan was gone. 371 00:28:00,888 --> 00:28:02,723 There were some overturned chairs. 372 00:28:02,807 --> 00:28:05,976 There were bullet casings and some bloodstains. 373 00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:09,397 It was clear that something dire had happened. 374 00:28:14,902 --> 00:28:18,322 [Reid] I would have been, what, 13, 14 years old? 375 00:28:18,406 --> 00:28:20,449 Mary Hogan was missing, 376 00:28:20,533 --> 00:28:24,995 and I suppose they had found some blood. 377 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:27,373 Nobody knew who did it. 378 00:28:47,143 --> 00:28:51,939 Ed Gein is confronted with the gravity of what he's done 379 00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:58,112 and is unable to own up to it and accept responsibility. 380 00:28:58,195 --> 00:29:01,449 The funny thing was that after that it happened, 381 00:29:01,532 --> 00:29:04,285 the threshing crew, they were talking about it 382 00:29:04,368 --> 00:29:06,871 with Eddie, and Eddie says, "Oh, I got her down to my place." 383 00:29:06,954 --> 00:29:08,247 And they said, "Eddie, you fool, 384 00:29:08,330 --> 00:29:10,207 you haven't got her down to your place." 385 00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:11,792 And he said, "Yes, I do." 386 00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:14,253 And everybody laughed and joked about it, 387 00:29:14,336 --> 00:29:16,922 and that was the extent of it. 388 00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:19,884 He was telling the truth. 389 00:29:19,967 --> 00:29:22,011 He did have her down to his place. 390 00:29:22,094 --> 00:29:23,888 Wisconsin people have a great sense of humor. 391 00:29:23,971 --> 00:29:25,890 -They really do. -And it is kind of funny. 392 00:29:25,973 --> 00:29:27,933 That one is strange to me. 393 00:29:34,231 --> 00:29:37,902 What's interesting about the Mary Hogan accusation 394 00:29:37,985 --> 00:29:44,241 is that it he denied killing Mary Hogan for so long. 395 00:29:44,325 --> 00:29:45,576 It wasn't until they had to tell him, 396 00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:49,538 like, "We found her head inside your house." 397 00:29:59,006 --> 00:30:02,885 [Berrill] Once investigators 398 00:30:02,968 --> 00:30:07,097 were going through Gein's farmhouse, 399 00:30:07,181 --> 00:30:14,230 one of them found a paper bag and just reached inside it 400 00:30:14,313 --> 00:30:17,483 and pulled out this head 401 00:30:17,566 --> 00:30:20,819 that he immediately recognized as Mary Hogan. 402 00:30:27,535 --> 00:30:28,452 [Batterman] I went with 403 00:30:28,536 --> 00:30:31,830 Arnie Fritz and the sheriff 404 00:30:31,914 --> 00:30:35,125 out to Ed Gein's house. 405 00:30:35,209 --> 00:30:37,294 I searched the kitchen 406 00:30:37,378 --> 00:30:41,298 and found in the stove 407 00:30:41,382 --> 00:30:46,136 where there had been some human bones burnt. 408 00:30:49,056 --> 00:30:54,186 Shoebox had the face mask of a woman. 409 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,026 And by that time, the sheriff from 410 00:31:01,110 --> 00:31:04,154 Portage County was there. 411 00:31:04,238 --> 00:31:06,490 And when they lifted up that face mask, 412 00:31:06,574 --> 00:31:10,327 he immediately recognized it as Mary Hogan's. 413 00:31:10,411 --> 00:31:13,539 [man] When you say face mask, what are you talking about? 414 00:31:13,622 --> 00:31:17,501 Well, he took the skin, cut it up in the back and there 415 00:31:17,585 --> 00:31:21,505 and just peeled it off the face, the skin. 416 00:31:21,589 --> 00:31:24,967 The hair and everything was on the masks. 417 00:31:32,057 --> 00:31:38,272 Basically the head, it was rigged up so it could be worn. 418 00:31:51,619 --> 00:31:56,915 In terms of his necrophiliac urges, 419 00:31:56,999 --> 00:31:59,543 you know, it's like he ran out of bodies. 420 00:31:59,627 --> 00:32:01,378 You know, there wasn't any suitable body 421 00:32:01,462 --> 00:32:06,008 in the graveyard at that point, so he decided to create his own. 422 00:32:11,138 --> 00:32:16,060 Ed Gein was devastatingly curious about the female form. 423 00:32:16,143 --> 00:32:17,269 -Yes. -The only female form 424 00:32:17,353 --> 00:32:19,021 that he knew was his mother's. 425 00:32:19,104 --> 00:32:22,941 And he actually developed a form of sexual attraction 426 00:32:23,025 --> 00:32:24,526 to his mother. 427 00:32:27,154 --> 00:32:30,074 No one knows what's going on in his interior life. 428 00:32:30,157 --> 00:32:32,660 He has not said a single one of these thoughts 429 00:32:32,743 --> 00:32:35,079 to another human being. 430 00:32:38,207 --> 00:32:41,251 And there's a curiosity that's been building inside of you. 431 00:32:41,335 --> 00:32:45,172 So it's like it's a further of like just like weirdly 432 00:32:45,255 --> 00:32:47,257 just being obsessed with the female form 433 00:32:47,341 --> 00:32:49,468 and just wanting to see it. 434 00:33:03,565 --> 00:33:06,360 It's such an intimate act, murder, 435 00:33:06,443 --> 00:33:10,072 especially when it's close. 436 00:33:10,155 --> 00:33:14,451 He wasn't getting enough out of the dead bodies emotionally. 437 00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:16,745 The next place to go would be, 438 00:33:16,829 --> 00:33:19,581 well, let me take someone's life. 439 00:33:25,504 --> 00:33:27,506 [reel clicking] 440 00:33:54,241 --> 00:33:56,326 [Lee] Ed Gein says in the tapes several times 441 00:33:56,410 --> 00:33:57,786 that he can't remember. 442 00:33:57,870 --> 00:34:00,247 This is an individual who does not have 443 00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:05,085 the emotional social development of an adult being confronted 444 00:34:05,169 --> 00:34:08,380 with the gruesome crimes that he's committed 445 00:34:08,464 --> 00:34:13,302 and trying to find a way to soften his responsibility. 446 00:34:40,412 --> 00:34:42,748 This is a way to kind of distance himself 447 00:34:42,831 --> 00:34:45,751 from the heinous crimes that he's committed 448 00:34:45,834 --> 00:34:48,462 by feigning that he has amnesia, 449 00:34:48,545 --> 00:34:51,465 that he can't remember, that he goes into a haze, 450 00:34:51,548 --> 00:34:53,217 that he becomes this other person. 451 00:35:10,776 --> 00:35:14,613 At one point, after multiple rounds of this, 452 00:35:14,696 --> 00:35:17,241 where he says that he can't remember, 453 00:35:17,324 --> 00:35:20,536 he says that if they can show that it was my gun 454 00:35:20,619 --> 00:35:23,330 that went off, then I guess it was me. 455 00:35:38,345 --> 00:35:40,889 He's describing an object 456 00:35:40,973 --> 00:35:43,141 that is of his possession, 457 00:35:43,225 --> 00:35:45,602 committing the crime as if it has agency 458 00:35:45,686 --> 00:35:47,646 or autonomy in the world, 459 00:35:47,729 --> 00:35:51,817 when in fact, he is the one committing this violence. 460 00:36:02,870 --> 00:36:05,831 [man speaking indistinctly on tape] 461 00:36:27,895 --> 00:36:30,439 [Schlesinger] When you look carefully at everything 462 00:36:30,522 --> 00:36:34,318 that they asked Gein about what he did, 463 00:36:34,401 --> 00:36:35,777 he just said, "I don't remember. 464 00:36:35,861 --> 00:36:38,196 If the police said I did it, I must have done it. 465 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,657 But I don't remember this, I don't remember that." 466 00:36:40,741 --> 00:36:43,243 He doesn't implicate himself in the more bizarre things. 467 00:36:43,327 --> 00:36:44,578 I thought that was important. 468 00:37:08,769 --> 00:37:11,688 That's called malingered amnesia. 469 00:37:11,772 --> 00:37:15,484 That's very, very typical in criminal defendants in general. 470 00:37:18,445 --> 00:37:21,365 I want you to understand what happened. 471 00:37:21,448 --> 00:37:25,577 It was like coming out of some kind of 472 00:37:25,661 --> 00:37:28,580 horrible trance or dream, 473 00:37:28,664 --> 00:37:33,377 to wake up in the morning and realize what I had done 474 00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:35,921 and with a clear mind. 475 00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:39,883 [Schlesinger] It occurs mainly for two reasons. 476 00:37:39,967 --> 00:37:42,552 One, the criminal defendant believes 477 00:37:42,636 --> 00:37:45,973 it's to his legal advantage to say that they don't remember. 478 00:37:46,056 --> 00:37:47,808 And two, they don't want 479 00:37:47,891 --> 00:37:50,477 to remember and discuss what they had done. 480 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,481 Apparently, I had beaten him to death with my fists. 481 00:37:54,564 --> 00:37:57,776 -And you have no memory? -I have no memory of it. 482 00:37:58,860 --> 00:38:00,988 So I just -- I can't explain it. 483 00:38:01,071 --> 00:38:02,406 I think I have a good memory, 484 00:38:02,489 --> 00:38:06,535 and it's almost like I blacked out. 485 00:38:06,618 --> 00:38:09,788 Keep in mind, also, there is no memory disorder 486 00:38:09,871 --> 00:38:11,790 or neurocognitive disorder 487 00:38:11,873 --> 00:38:14,543 that is selective for criminal behavior. 488 00:38:14,626 --> 00:38:16,712 So Gein doesn't have a memory problem. 489 00:38:16,795 --> 00:38:20,716 The only thing he can't remember are the perverse acts 490 00:38:20,799 --> 00:38:23,593 and the illegal acts and the extraordinary acts 491 00:38:23,677 --> 00:38:25,554 that he's being accused of. 492 00:38:59,171 --> 00:39:04,801 There's a part of him that is seeking to erase his past. 493 00:39:20,942 --> 00:39:25,072 He's grown up in this isolated existence, 494 00:39:25,155 --> 00:39:29,117 cut off from basically everyone except for his mother, right? 495 00:39:29,201 --> 00:39:32,662 And so there's this immense amount of attachment 496 00:39:32,746 --> 00:39:36,041 to this one person who is also responsible 497 00:39:36,124 --> 00:39:37,834 for a lot of your misery. 498 00:39:37,918 --> 00:39:40,712 Part of him is exorcizing these demons from his life 499 00:39:40,796 --> 00:39:44,674 that his mother has created, and he's seeking out victims 500 00:39:44,758 --> 00:39:49,513 who at least ostensibly remind him of his mother. 501 00:40:37,144 --> 00:40:43,441 It seems so unimaginable that one would murder a woman 502 00:40:43,525 --> 00:40:46,444 that you'd known for years and years, 503 00:40:46,528 --> 00:40:49,614 liked enough, you know, to ask out on a date. 504 00:41:18,894 --> 00:41:23,899 We know that he had brought some .22 caliber shells with him. 505 00:41:44,127 --> 00:41:47,255 Worden's Hardware stocked a lot of the supplies 506 00:41:47,339 --> 00:41:50,967 for people who were doing farming and so on. 507 00:41:51,051 --> 00:41:54,262 It also stocked rifles. 508 00:41:54,346 --> 00:41:57,265 Ed Gein took one of the rifles. 509 00:42:01,019 --> 00:42:04,648 When her back was turned, he loaded the rifle. 510 00:42:12,822 --> 00:42:14,866 [gunshot] 511 00:42:31,633 --> 00:42:34,261 [Bowser] We're on Main Street, Plainfield, Wisconsin. 512 00:42:34,344 --> 00:42:36,888 This is the main drag. 513 00:42:36,972 --> 00:42:39,307 This would have been all dirt roads back in the day. 514 00:42:45,188 --> 00:42:47,148 Okay, this is the hardware store. 515 00:42:47,232 --> 00:42:50,235 It's a little different than it was back in 1957. 516 00:42:50,318 --> 00:42:53,154 Actually, the spot where they kept the guns 517 00:42:53,238 --> 00:42:54,823 was in the back of the store. 518 00:42:54,906 --> 00:42:56,574 Bernice Worden was actually looking out the window 519 00:42:56,658 --> 00:42:58,326 across the street where the gas station was 520 00:42:58,410 --> 00:43:00,829 when she got shot in the back of the head. 521 00:43:09,004 --> 00:43:12,132 Ed Gein walked back in a store and wanted to see a .22 rifle 522 00:43:12,215 --> 00:43:14,092 that was in the back of the store. 523 00:43:14,175 --> 00:43:15,927 So Bernice got that for him. 524 00:43:16,011 --> 00:43:17,387 Then she went up front by the counter 525 00:43:17,470 --> 00:43:19,723 to look out the window, out at the gas station. 526 00:43:19,806 --> 00:43:21,766 Ed Gein pulled a bullet out of his front pocket, 527 00:43:21,850 --> 00:43:23,226 loaded it inside the gun, 528 00:43:23,310 --> 00:43:24,978 and shot her in the back of the head. 529 00:43:25,061 --> 00:43:27,856 [gunshot] 530 00:43:34,904 --> 00:43:36,740 Now, the back of the store has changed a little bit. 531 00:43:36,823 --> 00:43:38,908 This part sticking out was not there. 532 00:43:38,992 --> 00:43:40,285 It's totally flush. 533 00:43:40,368 --> 00:43:41,786 Now, right about where these glass doors was, 534 00:43:41,870 --> 00:43:43,747 is actually an overhead garage. 535 00:43:43,830 --> 00:43:45,165 And inside that was where 536 00:43:45,248 --> 00:43:46,374 the Worden's hardware truck was parked. 537 00:43:46,458 --> 00:43:48,043 It was a pickup truck. 538 00:43:48,126 --> 00:43:52,255 Ed put Bernice in the back of that pickup truck. 539 00:43:52,339 --> 00:43:55,967 When you go inside, you kind of feel a heaviness on you. 540 00:43:56,051 --> 00:43:58,720 Like this is an historical spot to me. 541 00:44:02,974 --> 00:44:04,726 [chuckles] 542 00:44:04,809 --> 00:44:06,686 Welcome to Plainfield. 543 00:44:31,461 --> 00:44:34,005 After executing Bernice Worden, 544 00:44:34,089 --> 00:44:37,342 Gein dragged her body out the back of the store, 545 00:44:37,425 --> 00:44:40,804 loaded it into her truck. 546 00:44:48,103 --> 00:44:51,815 Ed Gein drove to his farmhouse, 547 00:44:51,898 --> 00:44:55,402 dragged her corpse into his woodshed, 548 00:44:55,485 --> 00:45:00,740 and then walked back into town, a distance of about six miles, 549 00:45:00,824 --> 00:45:04,160 I think, and got in his own car. 550 00:45:36,234 --> 00:45:38,194 [Bowser] We're currently at Ed Gein's land, 551 00:45:38,278 --> 00:45:40,780 on the corner of 2nd and Archer. 552 00:45:46,953 --> 00:45:48,913 And this is where Ed would have drove his car in 553 00:45:48,997 --> 00:45:51,416 when he had Bernice Worden in the back. 554 00:46:02,135 --> 00:46:05,013 Exciting standing here. 555 00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:08,099 This is the freaking property, man. 556 00:46:12,896 --> 00:46:14,939 This is where it all happened. 557 00:46:18,276 --> 00:46:21,946 [laughs] I love it. 558 00:46:49,557 --> 00:46:51,893 The floor was dirt, and basically she was hanging 559 00:46:51,976 --> 00:46:54,229 from the rafters on a hoist, 560 00:46:54,312 --> 00:46:55,522 and she was basically totally gutted 561 00:46:55,605 --> 00:46:58,483 by like a deer, and no head. 562 00:47:38,064 --> 00:47:41,985 On the tapes, you hear the judge say multiple times, 563 00:47:42,068 --> 00:47:43,152 "You gutted her like a deer." 564 00:47:57,208 --> 00:47:59,419 It's a community where people are used to hunting. 565 00:47:59,502 --> 00:48:02,171 [gunshot] 566 00:48:02,255 --> 00:48:05,967 Used to working with their hands. 567 00:48:06,050 --> 00:48:08,511 They're familiar with knives. 568 00:48:09,387 --> 00:48:13,391 And the practices that you would use to skin and kill animals 569 00:48:13,474 --> 00:48:17,020 is something that could be transferable to humans. 570 00:48:17,103 --> 00:48:22,317 He had no empathy or no ability to connect 571 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,194 emotionally or psychologically to her. 572 00:48:25,278 --> 00:48:27,155 I guess he wanted to clean her up, 573 00:48:27,238 --> 00:48:32,118 get her as clean as possible by bleeding her. 574 00:48:32,201 --> 00:48:34,579 You know, like a deer or like an animal, 575 00:48:34,662 --> 00:48:36,289 so that he could get on with the business 576 00:48:36,372 --> 00:48:40,335 of what he wanted to do, which is probably to skin her. 577 00:48:59,312 --> 00:49:04,984 It is just not even possible for any "normal person" 578 00:49:05,068 --> 00:49:10,281 to, you know, imagine that kind of mentality. 579 00:49:25,046 --> 00:49:30,259 Committing these atrocities on female bodies, 580 00:49:30,343 --> 00:49:34,013 you know, was just -- was just part of his life. 581 00:49:48,236 --> 00:49:51,698 [indistinct chatter] 582 00:50:00,623 --> 00:50:02,625 After Ed was caught, 583 00:50:02,709 --> 00:50:06,087 townspeople started telling stories about 584 00:50:06,170 --> 00:50:08,214 Ed having come to their house 585 00:50:08,297 --> 00:50:12,009 and offered them venison from the deer he had killed. 586 00:50:35,158 --> 00:50:38,369 By his own admission, Ed had never hunted deer. 587 00:50:41,539 --> 00:50:45,209 So the point of those stories was that... 588 00:50:47,128 --> 00:50:49,046 ...they now realized... 589 00:50:50,715 --> 00:50:54,427 ...that the meat that Gein was offering them... 590 00:50:57,597 --> 00:51:00,224 ...was actually human flesh.