1 00:00:01,896 --> 00:00:04,655 Hello, anybody that is watching. 2 00:00:04,896 --> 00:00:05,862 Hi. 3 00:00:08,068 --> 00:00:10,551 [theme music playing] 4 00:00:30,482 --> 00:00:32,171 [Michael Barnett] Early on with Natalia, 5 00:00:32,171 --> 00:00:34,586 she was doing as many things as possible 6 00:00:34,586 --> 00:00:37,000 to cause hurt or harm 7 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,965 or mental distress to the entire family. 8 00:00:41,724 --> 00:00:43,482 I've got my adopted daughter 9 00:00:43,482 --> 00:00:46,344 trying to poison and kill my wife. 10 00:00:47,517 --> 00:00:50,379 We have had her standing over my bed with a knife. 11 00:00:51,793 --> 00:00:54,655 She's clearly dangerous. 12 00:00:55,896 --> 00:00:57,000 At this point, what do we do? 13 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,068 We... we take her to the stress center. 14 00:01:07,379 --> 00:01:10,172 She's seen by a psychiatric doctor. 15 00:01:10,172 --> 00:01:12,172 And so, at this point in time, 16 00:01:12,172 --> 00:01:13,275 we had already begun asking 17 00:01:13,275 --> 00:01:15,172 mental health professionals for help, 18 00:01:15,172 --> 00:01:16,379 trying to find guidance, 19 00:01:16,379 --> 00:01:18,896 trying to figure out the right medication. 20 00:01:18,896 --> 00:01:21,379 And all we're told at every turn is, 21 00:01:22,793 --> 00:01:24,103 "Nothing you can do about this. 22 00:01:24,103 --> 00:01:26,620 She is this. 23 00:01:26,620 --> 00:01:30,172 This doesn't go away. This doesn't change. 24 00:01:31,620 --> 00:01:33,965 And she can't stay at the stress center. 25 00:01:34,413 --> 00:01:36,378 She's... she's yours. 26 00:01:36,378 --> 00:01:37,344 Take her home." 27 00:01:42,413 --> 00:01:44,068 But they did say, 28 00:01:44,689 --> 00:01:45,723 "You can't let Natalia have 29 00:01:45,723 --> 00:01:47,723 free roam of the house anymore. 30 00:01:47,723 --> 00:01:49,586 You need to put a latch on the outside of her door. 31 00:01:50,310 --> 00:01:53,103 And anytime she needs food, 32 00:01:53,103 --> 00:01:56,000 bath, bathroom, whatever is needed, 33 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,172 you need to escort her through the house. 34 00:01:59,172 --> 00:02:01,965 You cannot let her freely roam your home anymore." 35 00:02:04,103 --> 00:02:05,275 At this point, 36 00:02:05,275 --> 00:02:07,586 we haven't done anything as a family for a long time. 37 00:02:08,896 --> 00:02:10,793 We can't go eat dinner together. 38 00:02:10,793 --> 00:02:12,517 We can't go to the grocery store together. 39 00:02:12,517 --> 00:02:15,551 We are always on guard for things. 40 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,172 We don't do anything. 41 00:02:18,517 --> 00:02:21,793 So, it's my son's birthday. 42 00:02:21,793 --> 00:02:24,482 Ethan, my youngest son, loved cows. 43 00:02:24,482 --> 00:02:25,620 So for his birthday, 44 00:02:25,620 --> 00:02:27,310 we find a place in Indianapolis 45 00:02:27,310 --> 00:02:29,655 that lets you milk your own cow. 46 00:02:31,620 --> 00:02:33,655 And it's called Traders Point Creamery. 47 00:02:34,517 --> 00:02:37,379 We get inside and they say, 48 00:02:37,379 --> 00:02:39,482 "We have some release forms for you to sign." 49 00:02:40,517 --> 00:02:43,034 Out there where the cows are is an electric fence. 50 00:02:43,517 --> 00:02:45,000 And you have to say, 51 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:46,275 you know there's an electric fence there, 52 00:02:46,275 --> 00:02:48,482 and if you touch it and you get harmed, 53 00:02:48,482 --> 00:02:50,172 that you're not going to hold us liable. 54 00:02:51,517 --> 00:02:53,275 When they say that to us, 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,172 Natalia's eyes lit up like a Christmas tree. 56 00:02:59,620 --> 00:03:00,586 "Really? 57 00:03:01,379 --> 00:03:02,793 There's a scary fence out there 58 00:03:02,793 --> 00:03:04,862 and, uh, I have to sign this?" 59 00:03:07,275 --> 00:03:08,551 Happily signs away. 60 00:03:11,103 --> 00:03:13,620 It's another quarter mile from that building 61 00:03:13,620 --> 00:03:14,724 to where the fence starts. 62 00:03:14,724 --> 00:03:15,965 Everything's fine. 63 00:03:19,620 --> 00:03:21,793 The moment we get within ten feet of the fence, 64 00:03:23,586 --> 00:03:25,689 Natalia suddenly can't walk again. 65 00:03:28,896 --> 00:03:32,067 Before we went on a walk on the trail, 66 00:03:32,067 --> 00:03:35,067 like, uh, my mom and Natalia sort of stayed back. 67 00:03:37,620 --> 00:03:39,172 [Michael] So Kristine decides 68 00:03:39,172 --> 00:03:41,586 you're not going to ruin Ethan's birthday. 69 00:03:43,586 --> 00:03:45,793 Michael, you take the boys. 70 00:03:45,793 --> 00:03:47,689 You go on ahead. 71 00:03:47,689 --> 00:03:49,586 I will stay back here and I'll handle this. 72 00:03:52,103 --> 00:03:54,793 Myself, my three sons, we keep going. 73 00:03:54,793 --> 00:03:56,067 We keep going. We keep going. 74 00:03:56,067 --> 00:03:58,896 We get about 40, 50 yards down and I start hearing screaming. 75 00:03:58,896 --> 00:04:00,344 [woman screaming] 76 00:04:01,689 --> 00:04:02,965 I turn and look. 77 00:04:03,379 --> 00:04:05,310 Natalia and Kristine 78 00:04:05,310 --> 00:04:06,724 are in a physical altercation. 79 00:04:06,724 --> 00:04:07,793 [woman screams] 80 00:04:07,793 --> 00:04:10,275 It looks like Natalia's trying to pull Kristine. 81 00:04:11,517 --> 00:04:12,620 Now you might think, 82 00:04:12,620 --> 00:04:14,965 "Hey, she's a little person. How strong can she be?" 83 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:19,103 She uses her arms a lot. 84 00:04:19,103 --> 00:04:20,620 Push herself up on things. 85 00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:22,896 She goes up the stairs using her arms. 86 00:04:22,896 --> 00:04:25,862 She's got guns that Schwarzenegger would be impressed with. 87 00:04:26,517 --> 00:04:27,793 She's very strong. 88 00:04:28,689 --> 00:04:30,103 My wife is frail. 89 00:04:30,103 --> 00:04:32,275 She's got a degenerative disease called lupus. 90 00:04:32,275 --> 00:04:34,000 She's weak. 91 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,551 I start to go back. Kristine says, "No, go." 92 00:04:39,896 --> 00:04:41,172 Okay. 93 00:04:41,172 --> 00:04:44,275 She wants my son to have his birthday. We go. 94 00:04:44,275 --> 00:04:46,034 And me and the boys double time it. 95 00:04:48,793 --> 00:04:50,344 We get a little bit farther down... 96 00:04:52,379 --> 00:04:53,551 and we hear the sirens. 97 00:04:54,620 --> 00:04:56,103 [siren wailing] 98 00:04:56,103 --> 00:04:57,448 The second I heard the sirens, 99 00:04:58,517 --> 00:05:00,241 I thought Kristine was dead. 100 00:05:01,379 --> 00:05:02,344 I think she's dead. 101 00:05:04,896 --> 00:05:06,517 And the police have arrived, 102 00:05:06,517 --> 00:05:09,068 um, ambulances have arrived. 103 00:05:09,068 --> 00:05:11,655 And we can see Kristine is there. 104 00:05:12,413 --> 00:05:14,586 Kristine's very angry, very upset. 105 00:05:15,482 --> 00:05:17,793 Natalia's over with the EMTs, 106 00:05:18,413 --> 00:05:19,793 and Natalia had been trying 107 00:05:19,793 --> 00:05:21,551 to pull Kristine into the electric fence. 108 00:05:24,103 --> 00:05:25,965 She'd been screaming out loud. 109 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:30,482 How am I with language in this interview? 110 00:05:30,482 --> 00:05:32,689 Am I allowed to use words? 111 00:05:32,689 --> 00:05:34,517 "You [bleep] bitch, I'm going to kill you. 112 00:05:34,517 --> 00:05:35,793 I'm going to kill you, you bitch. 113 00:05:35,793 --> 00:05:36,758 You're going to die." 114 00:05:38,482 --> 00:05:40,000 Kristine's screaming at them, 115 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,068 "She needs to be arrested. She tried to kill me. 116 00:05:42,068 --> 00:05:44,172 She needs to be arrested. She tried to kill me." 117 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,275 We wanted charges. 118 00:05:47,275 --> 00:05:48,379 We wanted her arrested. 119 00:05:48,379 --> 00:05:50,620 She, admittedly, 120 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:54,517 to their face when they came to the 911 call said, 121 00:05:54,517 --> 00:05:56,758 "I'm trying to kill her." 122 00:05:58,103 --> 00:06:01,482 They made the distinction that their visual told them, 123 00:06:01,482 --> 00:06:04,275 "Hey, that's a little girl. 124 00:06:04,275 --> 00:06:06,620 She's not really trying to kill anybody. She's sick. 125 00:06:06,620 --> 00:06:08,275 We're going to take her to the hospital instead." 126 00:06:10,724 --> 00:06:12,896 But they stated we're not going to press charges. 127 00:06:12,896 --> 00:06:14,965 She's going to get a mental health evaluation. 128 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,068 [Jacob] I think she was already in the ambulance 129 00:06:19,068 --> 00:06:20,482 by the time I had come back. 130 00:06:21,310 --> 00:06:22,620 I was like, "Oh, well, I guess, 131 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:24,517 Natalia's mental health is clearly off. 132 00:06:24,517 --> 00:06:26,758 I guess it's good that she goes to the hospital." 133 00:06:34,172 --> 00:06:35,724 I felt a sense of relief, 134 00:06:35,724 --> 00:06:38,448 like, uh, it can be a little safer. 135 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,172 [Michael] Kristine and I said, 136 00:06:41,172 --> 00:06:45,724 "She has to go to a hospital long-term and get help." 137 00:06:45,724 --> 00:06:47,620 We didn't know how long. 138 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:51,482 She can't come home until she's better. 139 00:06:51,482 --> 00:06:53,586 When Natalia was in the state mental hospital, 140 00:06:53,586 --> 00:06:57,000 she was under 24/7 observation and care 141 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,586 of 90 doctors, nurses, 142 00:06:59,586 --> 00:07:02,724 orderlies, therapists, et cetera. 143 00:07:02,724 --> 00:07:06,000 While she's there, she admits openly and freely that, 144 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,965 "Yeah, I'm trying to kill her. 145 00:07:08,413 --> 00:07:09,896 And by the way, 146 00:07:09,896 --> 00:07:12,965 I'm going to tell you, doctors, and I'm going to write this in my journal. 147 00:07:13,586 --> 00:07:15,068 I'm going to kill the boys, too. 148 00:07:16,896 --> 00:07:20,103 And here's specifically what I'm going to do to them. 149 00:07:20,103 --> 00:07:23,689 I am going to stab them with a knife while they sleep. 150 00:07:25,103 --> 00:07:27,103 I'm going to drag their bodies out of the house, 151 00:07:27,103 --> 00:07:29,172 and I'm going to put them underneath the deck out back." 152 00:07:33,482 --> 00:07:35,724 Natalia drew this picture immediately after being 153 00:07:35,724 --> 00:07:37,793 admitted to Larue Carter State Hospital. 154 00:07:39,517 --> 00:07:41,793 It says, "bye," as in goodbye. 155 00:07:59,896 --> 00:08:02,068 [nurse speaking] 156 00:08:10,896 --> 00:08:12,586 [orderly speaking] 157 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:31,586 [woman speaking] 158 00:09:15,689 --> 00:09:17,655 [Michael] After a couple weeks, 159 00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:19,965 we get a phone call from them. 160 00:09:20,620 --> 00:09:21,689 "You got to come get her." 161 00:09:22,517 --> 00:09:23,551 Why? 162 00:09:25,620 --> 00:09:27,344 Well, they tried to be really delicate with it. 163 00:09:28,482 --> 00:09:30,689 "Natalia was propositioning the men." 164 00:09:32,793 --> 00:09:33,724 What are you talking about? 165 00:09:41,413 --> 00:09:43,379 [Michael] Natalia was at Larue Carter. 166 00:09:43,379 --> 00:09:46,965 We had been trying to get her to inpatient treatment. 167 00:09:46,965 --> 00:09:50,068 We had been begging people to help us. 168 00:09:50,068 --> 00:09:52,103 We had been told by everybody, 169 00:09:52,103 --> 00:09:53,689 "You need help desperately. 170 00:09:53,689 --> 00:09:55,000 Your family's in danger. 171 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,862 She needs inpatient treatment." 172 00:09:57,586 --> 00:09:58,896 "Great. 173 00:09:58,896 --> 00:10:00,103 We are at an inpatient facility. 174 00:10:00,103 --> 00:10:01,000 That's fantastic. 175 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,241 Can you help us?" "No." 176 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,241 They said, "Mr. Barnett, 177 00:10:07,103 --> 00:10:09,551 the state mental hospital, the adult wing, 178 00:10:10,482 --> 00:10:11,931 most of the men there, 179 00:10:13,275 --> 00:10:15,551 they're not particularly good with children. 180 00:10:17,275 --> 00:10:19,758 And they're not particularly good with girls. 181 00:10:23,310 --> 00:10:24,758 [nurse speaking] 182 00:10:37,103 --> 00:10:38,758 [woman speaking] 183 00:11:06,896 --> 00:11:08,172 [Michael] So, after a month, 184 00:11:08,172 --> 00:11:11,000 they need her out of there because 185 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,137 bad things are about to happen with all the men in the unit. 186 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,206 "Take her home." 187 00:11:16,206 --> 00:11:19,172 "She's going to kill us." "Can't help you." 188 00:11:21,103 --> 00:11:23,103 The danger we've been in 189 00:11:23,103 --> 00:11:25,000 isn't going anywhere anytime soon, 190 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,379 and it can't be controlled. 191 00:11:34,103 --> 00:11:35,310 [Beth Karas] I'm Beth Karas. 192 00:11:35,310 --> 00:11:37,000 I'm an attorney in New York. 193 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,482 I'm a former prosecutor. 194 00:11:40,586 --> 00:11:43,862 What hooked me in this case was just the strange story. 195 00:11:47,068 --> 00:11:48,965 She's had various diagnoses, 196 00:11:48,965 --> 00:11:50,655 the last one being sociopath. 197 00:11:52,586 --> 00:11:54,793 But in my opinion, 198 00:11:54,793 --> 00:11:58,034 there are questions, a lot of questions with this case. 199 00:11:59,482 --> 00:12:01,482 The fundamental rule in all investigations 200 00:12:01,482 --> 00:12:05,379 is that you follow the facts wherever they may lead you. 201 00:12:07,793 --> 00:12:11,172 There are some things that just don't sit right with me. 202 00:12:12,482 --> 00:12:15,068 If she's actually threatening to kill them, 203 00:12:15,793 --> 00:12:17,379 you got to go to the police. 204 00:12:23,103 --> 00:12:25,344 Kristine and Michael don't call the police. 205 00:12:27,482 --> 00:12:29,310 But the neighbor, who is very concerned, 206 00:12:29,310 --> 00:12:32,206 does call the Department of Child Services, 207 00:12:32,206 --> 00:12:36,793 who bring in the police in March of 2012. 208 00:12:36,793 --> 00:12:40,379 They get a report of child neglect of Natalia. 209 00:12:42,482 --> 00:12:44,379 [Michael] March comes. 210 00:12:44,379 --> 00:12:45,689 Kristine and Natalia are having the 211 00:12:45,689 --> 00:12:46,931 "who are you?" fight. 212 00:12:48,275 --> 00:12:51,000 Kristine wants Natalia to write down 213 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,275 people she's lived with, 214 00:12:52,586 --> 00:12:53,965 places she's been. 215 00:12:53,965 --> 00:12:55,655 Tell us about people you've known. 216 00:12:57,103 --> 00:13:00,862 And this night, Kristine decides 217 00:13:01,310 --> 00:13:02,379 that the most effective way 218 00:13:02,379 --> 00:13:04,862 to make you tell me who you really are 219 00:13:04,862 --> 00:13:07,137 is you no longer have a bedroom or a bed. 220 00:13:08,275 --> 00:13:09,862 You sleep outside. 221 00:13:11,275 --> 00:13:12,241 Grab your blanket. 222 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,379 You're sleeping on the back deck. 223 00:13:16,896 --> 00:13:18,103 Natalia's out there crying 224 00:13:18,103 --> 00:13:21,172 finally, like, three hours into this. 225 00:13:21,172 --> 00:13:24,068 Well, I tell Kristine, "I can't do this." 226 00:13:24,068 --> 00:13:27,034 I get up, I let Natalia in, I get her back to her room. 227 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,551 One of the neighbors called CPS. 228 00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:32,482 So CPS shows up on the door, 229 00:13:32,482 --> 00:13:33,896 Child Protective Services, 230 00:13:33,896 --> 00:13:36,034 with a detective from the local police department. 231 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,206 They come in, they've gotten this call, 232 00:13:39,206 --> 00:13:41,379 and we're neglecting Natalia. 233 00:13:44,482 --> 00:13:46,862 The detective for the Westfield Police Department, 234 00:13:48,068 --> 00:13:49,379 within 10 minutes, 235 00:13:50,103 --> 00:13:51,862 takes a look at the surroundings, 236 00:13:52,586 --> 00:13:54,275 takes a look at the paperwork, 237 00:13:54,275 --> 00:13:56,551 listens to us speak for a couple minutes, 238 00:13:57,482 --> 00:14:01,103 and he immediately realizes 239 00:14:01,103 --> 00:14:03,758 he's not here to protect Natalia. 240 00:14:04,379 --> 00:14:06,689 He's here to protect my sons. 241 00:14:06,689 --> 00:14:09,172 He knows instantly they're in grave danger. 242 00:14:10,482 --> 00:14:12,103 Detective Klaus, 243 00:14:12,103 --> 00:14:14,655 he conducts an investigation, he comes back and visits us. 244 00:14:15,379 --> 00:14:16,896 He's got a picture of Natalia 245 00:14:16,896 --> 00:14:20,965 from when she was naturalized here as a US citizen in 2008, 246 00:14:20,965 --> 00:14:23,413 when she first got here from the Ukraine. 247 00:14:23,413 --> 00:14:26,689 He's got her naturalization, uh, information, 248 00:14:26,689 --> 00:14:28,758 basic vital statistics, stuff like that. 249 00:14:29,862 --> 00:14:32,310 [Beth] Natalia admitted to Detective Klaus 250 00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:34,413 that she was told 251 00:14:34,413 --> 00:14:37,172 her new birthday at the orphanage in Ukraine, 252 00:14:38,586 --> 00:14:41,758 that new birthday being 2003. 253 00:14:42,689 --> 00:14:43,896 Another thing, 254 00:14:43,896 --> 00:14:46,689 Detective Klaus showed her a picture of herself 255 00:14:46,689 --> 00:14:48,172 from when she entered the country, 256 00:14:49,103 --> 00:14:52,344 but she did not recognize herself in the picture. 257 00:14:54,068 --> 00:14:55,172 He's not 100% convinced 258 00:14:55,172 --> 00:14:56,931 the girl in the picture is even her. 259 00:14:57,482 --> 00:14:58,586 Another interesting thing 260 00:14:58,586 --> 00:15:01,000 he mentions to us is her height. 261 00:15:01,862 --> 00:15:03,965 Four years ago, when she was naturalized, 262 00:15:04,482 --> 00:15:07,482 she hasn't grown a centimeter. 263 00:15:07,482 --> 00:15:10,000 I don't care what kind of dwarfism you have, 264 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,965 if you're a six-year-old, you still grow. 265 00:15:14,275 --> 00:15:16,206 He informs us he believes 266 00:15:16,206 --> 00:15:18,551 that her Ukrainian birth certificate is all bogus. 267 00:15:21,413 --> 00:15:24,103 Here's this business card to an attorney. 268 00:15:24,103 --> 00:15:26,103 You need to go to them immediately. 269 00:15:26,103 --> 00:15:27,655 You need to correct her age. 270 00:15:30,206 --> 00:15:31,689 What are you talking about? 271 00:15:31,689 --> 00:15:34,068 Correct her age. That's... 272 00:15:34,068 --> 00:15:37,000 You can't just take an eraser to her birth certificate. 273 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,310 I'd never heard of such a thing. 274 00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:41,068 I never... It never even crossed my mind. 275 00:15:41,068 --> 00:15:42,586 I just thought we have an adult 276 00:15:42,586 --> 00:15:44,275 who's masquerading it as an eight-year-old, 277 00:15:44,275 --> 00:15:45,931 and that's what it is. 278 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000 So, he explains to me, 279 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,103 foreign-born children often have inaccurate birth records, 280 00:15:52,103 --> 00:15:53,793 and sometimes it needs to be corrected. 281 00:15:53,793 --> 00:15:55,068 This is our 282 00:15:55,068 --> 00:15:57,275 legal recommendation from the police department. 283 00:15:58,689 --> 00:16:00,862 We have it in writing from them. 284 00:16:00,862 --> 00:16:03,586 So, the only way to protect the entire family, 285 00:16:03,586 --> 00:16:06,275 I have to prove she's an adult 286 00:16:06,965 --> 00:16:08,689 and that she definitely has 287 00:16:08,689 --> 00:16:11,034 a fake Ukrainian birth certificate. 288 00:16:12,689 --> 00:16:14,103 Kristine and I, 289 00:16:14,103 --> 00:16:16,896 again, we reached out to the adoption agency. 290 00:16:16,896 --> 00:16:19,793 When we asked them, "Can you help give us contact information 291 00:16:19,793 --> 00:16:20,793 for her old family? 292 00:16:20,793 --> 00:16:22,655 We have got to find out what's going on here," 293 00:16:23,310 --> 00:16:25,482 they said, "No, we can't." 294 00:16:25,482 --> 00:16:28,965 The answer is always, "It is a closed adoption. 295 00:16:28,965 --> 00:16:30,689 The other family does not want 296 00:16:30,689 --> 00:16:33,172 to surrender any information to you." 297 00:16:33,793 --> 00:16:36,793 It is not until 298 00:16:36,793 --> 00:16:39,482 I got a phone call from the secretary of the adoption agency 299 00:16:39,482 --> 00:16:41,482 a little bit later that day, 300 00:16:41,482 --> 00:16:45,551 and she said, "I can't tell you where she's from, 301 00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:47,758 but check her luggage closer. 302 00:16:50,103 --> 00:16:52,034 Really inspect those backpacks." 303 00:16:52,965 --> 00:16:55,206 So I go upstairs in the house, 304 00:16:55,206 --> 00:16:57,172 get the backpacks out, start rummaging through it. 305 00:16:59,793 --> 00:17:02,172 There was a little ID tag inside of her bag 306 00:17:02,689 --> 00:17:04,275 when we adopted her 307 00:17:04,275 --> 00:17:06,378 that had the original family's information on it. 308 00:17:07,792 --> 00:17:08,862 What are their names? 309 00:17:10,275 --> 00:17:11,241 Gary and Diane Ciccone. 310 00:17:22,275 --> 00:17:24,275 [Beth] We know, according to records that 311 00:17:24,275 --> 00:17:29,689 Natalia starts her early life in an orphanage in Ukraine. 312 00:17:29,689 --> 00:17:32,275 But all the conflicts in this case, 313 00:17:32,275 --> 00:17:34,689 boil down to Natalia's age. 314 00:17:34,689 --> 00:17:37,275 Is she a child or is she an adult? 315 00:17:37,275 --> 00:17:40,379 In 2020, a Ukrainian investigator 316 00:17:40,379 --> 00:17:43,172 went to track down Natalia's biological mother, 317 00:17:43,172 --> 00:17:44,482 Anna Gava, 318 00:17:44,482 --> 00:17:47,241 and found Anna Gava's sister, Tatyana. 319 00:17:47,586 --> 00:17:49,344 [dog barking] 320 00:17:50,172 --> 00:17:52,000 [investigator speaking Ukrainian] 321 00:17:59,655 --> 00:18:01,103 [Tatyana speaking Ukrainian] 322 00:18:01,103 --> 00:18:02,758 [investigator speaking] 323 00:18:08,586 --> 00:18:11,482 [Tatyana speaking] 324 00:18:11,482 --> 00:18:13,241 [investigator speaking] 325 00:18:14,965 --> 00:18:16,655 [Tatyana speaking] 326 00:18:23,103 --> 00:18:25,241 [investigator speaking] 327 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,172 -[Tatyana speaking] -[Anna] Hello. 328 00:18:29,172 --> 00:18:30,655 [Tatyana speaking] 329 00:18:36,965 --> 00:18:39,000 -[investigator] Anna. -[Anna speaking Ukrainian] 330 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,448 [investigator speaking] 331 00:18:41,689 --> 00:18:43,517 [Anna speaking] 332 00:18:50,103 --> 00:18:52,931 [interviewer speaking] 333 00:18:54,275 --> 00:18:56,000 [Anna speaking] 334 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,172 [bleep] 335 00:18:58,172 --> 00:18:59,103 [Tatyana speaking] 336 00:18:59,862 --> 00:19:01,344 [Anna speaking] 337 00:19:03,275 --> 00:19:04,379 [bleep] 338 00:19:04,379 --> 00:19:05,275 [investigator] Anna. 339 00:19:05,275 --> 00:19:06,241 [line disconnects] 340 00:19:08,172 --> 00:19:10,275 This woman, Anna Gava, 341 00:19:10,275 --> 00:19:13,758 who is supposedly Natalia's biological mother, 342 00:19:13,758 --> 00:19:17,103 just said she's been going through this saga 343 00:19:17,103 --> 00:19:18,758 for 17 years. 344 00:19:18,758 --> 00:19:21,551 Well, she said that in 2020. 345 00:19:22,172 --> 00:19:23,103 Do the math. 346 00:19:23,689 --> 00:19:24,793 That means 347 00:19:24,793 --> 00:19:28,172 Natalia may really have been born in 2003, 348 00:19:28,172 --> 00:19:29,931 which is what she has said all along. 349 00:19:30,379 --> 00:19:32,034 And in 2008, 350 00:19:32,034 --> 00:19:33,586 Gary and Diane Ciccone, 351 00:19:33,586 --> 00:19:36,241 from New Hampshire adopted Natalia. 352 00:19:36,689 --> 00:19:38,586 By 2009, 353 00:19:38,586 --> 00:19:41,000 it's possible that they found her behavior 354 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,758 to be too hard to manage. 355 00:19:42,758 --> 00:19:46,275 I don't know, but to Ciccones, it's clear 356 00:19:46,275 --> 00:19:48,172 they wanted to unload her. 357 00:19:48,172 --> 00:19:49,896 Closed adoption giving virtually 358 00:19:49,896 --> 00:19:51,275 no information about her. 359 00:19:51,275 --> 00:19:52,965 They made a mistake though. 360 00:19:52,965 --> 00:19:55,103 They left their identifying information 361 00:19:55,103 --> 00:19:56,862 on one of the luggage tags. 362 00:19:56,862 --> 00:19:59,551 So, the Barnett's were able to track them down. 363 00:20:30,275 --> 00:20:31,862 [Judith Irving] My name is Judith Irving, 364 00:20:31,862 --> 00:20:34,689 and I'm from a little town in Indiana. 365 00:20:34,689 --> 00:20:36,172 And, uh... 366 00:20:36,172 --> 00:20:37,586 I-- I don't know what else to say. 367 00:20:37,586 --> 00:20:39,034 Okay, can we start over? 368 00:20:39,034 --> 00:20:40,448 I'm so sorry. 369 00:20:40,448 --> 00:20:42,586 Oh, Natalia. [chuckles] 370 00:20:42,586 --> 00:20:44,448 The first time I heard about Natalia, 371 00:20:44,448 --> 00:20:47,034 um, I actually received an email 372 00:20:47,034 --> 00:20:48,551 from Little People of America. 373 00:20:50,862 --> 00:20:53,482 Little People of America is an organization 374 00:20:53,482 --> 00:20:56,275 where people with dwarfism can meet 375 00:20:56,275 --> 00:20:58,275 and come together once a year. 376 00:20:58,275 --> 00:21:00,103 And we're there for each other, 377 00:21:00,103 --> 00:21:02,758 we help support each other, we're friends with each other. 378 00:21:02,758 --> 00:21:04,551 It's often where we meet our husbands, 379 00:21:04,551 --> 00:21:06,586 or wives, or our best friend. 380 00:21:06,586 --> 00:21:09,758 Little people of America told me that the Ciccones had adopted a little girl. 381 00:21:09,758 --> 00:21:11,586 She has diastrophic dwarfism 382 00:21:11,586 --> 00:21:13,103 and they're trying to find a home for her. 383 00:21:15,379 --> 00:21:17,172 When I saw her picture, it was-- 384 00:21:17,172 --> 00:21:19,896 I instantly fell in love. [chuckles] I was like, 385 00:21:19,896 --> 00:21:22,655 "Yeah, this little girl, Natalia, 386 00:21:22,655 --> 00:21:25,551 she's meant to... She's meant to be my daughter." 387 00:21:26,482 --> 00:21:28,448 I-- I heard that she loved to dance and sing 388 00:21:28,448 --> 00:21:30,965 and be creative, and I was like... [gasps] 389 00:21:30,965 --> 00:21:33,241 You know, she's just meant to be with me. [chuckles] 390 00:21:35,379 --> 00:21:37,689 Dyan and her husband said that, 391 00:21:37,689 --> 00:21:39,965 "Pay the legal fees and you can adopt 392 00:21:40,586 --> 00:21:41,758 this little girl." 393 00:21:41,758 --> 00:21:42,965 If I remember right, 394 00:21:42,965 --> 00:21:44,448 she told me that 395 00:21:44,448 --> 00:21:46,172 adoption costs from Ukraine 396 00:21:46,172 --> 00:21:48,172 were around $25,000. 397 00:21:48,172 --> 00:21:50,482 And I find it kinda crazy 398 00:21:50,482 --> 00:21:52,551 that you would adopt a child 399 00:21:52,551 --> 00:21:56,034 and spend $25,000 and only spend a year with that child? 400 00:21:56,034 --> 00:21:59,034 So, I-- I find it odd. 401 00:21:59,034 --> 00:22:01,965 I don't know if there was a financial scam or not. 402 00:22:04,655 --> 00:22:06,172 My husband decided that 403 00:22:06,172 --> 00:22:08,689 I don't think we can do this financially. 404 00:22:08,689 --> 00:22:10,862 And I feel like if you're going to adopt, 405 00:22:10,862 --> 00:22:13,448 both parents have to be totally into it. 406 00:22:14,482 --> 00:22:16,965 But it broke my heart. 407 00:22:16,965 --> 00:22:20,827 So... Sorry. [chuckles and sniffs] It just, uh... 408 00:22:22,103 --> 00:22:24,172 When I wasn't able to adopt her, 409 00:22:24,172 --> 00:22:26,103 I just wanted her to be happy. 410 00:22:27,172 --> 00:22:28,034 [crying] And then when I found out 411 00:22:28,034 --> 00:22:29,172 what happened to her, 412 00:22:29,172 --> 00:22:31,517 I was like, "She wasn't happy." 413 00:22:32,482 --> 00:22:35,379 And that was what broke my heart the most 414 00:22:35,379 --> 00:22:37,344 is that she wasn't happy. 415 00:22:38,689 --> 00:22:42,000 [in normal voice] In my heart, Natalia is the daughter I never had. 416 00:22:43,275 --> 00:22:48,034 Once we-- we told them that we couldn't adopt Natalia, 417 00:22:48,034 --> 00:22:51,103 they moved on really quickly to the next couple. 418 00:23:04,758 --> 00:23:06,379 My name is Robyn Farris 419 00:23:06,379 --> 00:23:09,724 and this is my husband, Dwayne Farris. 420 00:23:12,034 --> 00:23:15,758 Back in 2009, we received an email 421 00:23:15,758 --> 00:23:17,551 from the Little People of America 422 00:23:17,551 --> 00:23:20,034 asking us if we might be interested 423 00:23:20,034 --> 00:23:24,103 in a possible adoption of a little girl named Natalia. 424 00:23:25,655 --> 00:23:27,172 And she hooked us up 425 00:23:27,172 --> 00:23:30,689 with the, um, adoptive mom, Dyan Ciccone. 426 00:23:30,689 --> 00:23:33,275 She had asked us if we would cover 427 00:23:33,275 --> 00:23:35,344 her previous medical expenses. 428 00:23:36,482 --> 00:23:39,689 So right then and there, we started to get concerned. 429 00:23:39,689 --> 00:23:42,482 We thought it was some kind of weird scam 430 00:23:42,482 --> 00:23:44,034 where, you know, she kinda came across 431 00:23:44,034 --> 00:23:48,172 as a used car salesman of sorts trying to "sell" Natalia to us. 432 00:23:49,379 --> 00:23:52,103 So we said, "Heck, no, we're not gonna do that. 433 00:23:52,103 --> 00:23:55,448 We're not gonna pay for anything that occurred in the past." 434 00:23:55,448 --> 00:23:58,379 And I think she harped on it a little bit. 435 00:23:58,379 --> 00:24:01,586 But then, eventually, she gave that up. 436 00:24:01,586 --> 00:24:03,689 Another red flag that we were concerned about 437 00:24:03,689 --> 00:24:07,103 is why Dyan adopted her 438 00:24:07,103 --> 00:24:12,241 and so quickly wanted to basically get rid of her. 439 00:24:13,689 --> 00:24:16,758 We were concerned about her mental health 440 00:24:16,758 --> 00:24:19,103 coming from an orphanage in Ukraine. 441 00:24:20,275 --> 00:24:22,275 So we did ask her if we could 442 00:24:22,275 --> 00:24:24,758 please have Natalia evaluated, 443 00:24:24,758 --> 00:24:27,482 um, for a psychological evaluation 444 00:24:27,482 --> 00:24:29,689 to see where she stood on that. 445 00:24:29,689 --> 00:24:32,103 And, um, Miss Dyan said no. 446 00:24:32,103 --> 00:24:35,034 Why would someone, if they didn't have anything to hide, 447 00:24:35,034 --> 00:24:37,275 why would they 448 00:24:37,275 --> 00:24:39,862 refuse the psychological evaluation? 449 00:24:39,862 --> 00:24:43,655 Yeah, definitely shady, weird. 450 00:24:43,655 --> 00:24:46,689 -Um, definitely red flags. -Mmm-hmm. 451 00:24:46,689 --> 00:24:47,862 But I was still interested. 452 00:24:47,862 --> 00:24:50,241 -I still wanted to pursue. -Hmm. 453 00:24:51,758 --> 00:24:54,275 [Dwayne] So we're driving to this lake house in New Hampshire, 454 00:24:54,275 --> 00:24:56,862 where we were meeting Dyan and Natalia. 455 00:24:56,862 --> 00:24:59,965 And it reminded me of Camp Crystal Lake. 456 00:25:01,448 --> 00:25:03,655 It was kinda spooky. 457 00:25:03,655 --> 00:25:07,793 [Robyn] He had some concerns because the driveway 458 00:25:07,793 --> 00:25:09,896 was super steep and it was gravel. 459 00:25:09,896 --> 00:25:14,275 And us, you know, having physical disabilities just like Natalia, 460 00:25:14,275 --> 00:25:15,793 we were wondering, "Wow. 461 00:25:15,793 --> 00:25:18,793 How does she get up and down the gravel driveway?" 462 00:25:18,793 --> 00:25:21,655 'Cause when we first saw Natalia, 463 00:25:21,655 --> 00:25:23,275 she didn't have shoes at all. 464 00:25:23,275 --> 00:25:26,000 She has these slippery braces on her feet. 465 00:25:28,379 --> 00:25:30,103 And if you're stepping on pebbles, 466 00:25:30,103 --> 00:25:32,000 it could definitely hurt your feet. 467 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:33,862 So we were just really surprised 468 00:25:33,862 --> 00:25:36,689 she didn't have any shoes because you could 469 00:25:36,689 --> 00:25:40,172 fall down the driveway easily without the proper footing. 470 00:25:43,034 --> 00:25:46,689 But we thought that she was really adorable. 471 00:25:46,689 --> 00:25:48,448 She was about to turn six years old 472 00:25:48,448 --> 00:25:51,068 and she definitely looked her stated age. 473 00:25:51,862 --> 00:25:54,793 But we really had a feeling that 474 00:25:54,793 --> 00:25:56,931 there was something bad going on. 475 00:26:04,172 --> 00:26:07,758 We're both Christians and everybody, in our opinion, 476 00:26:08,448 --> 00:26:09,965 has God given natural gifts 477 00:26:09,965 --> 00:26:13,793 and one of his gifts is the gift of discernment. 478 00:26:13,793 --> 00:26:16,586 You know, to the regular, um, average world, 479 00:26:16,586 --> 00:26:20,379 it would just be more of a sixth sense or an intuition. 480 00:26:20,379 --> 00:26:24,275 I have a really good lie detector... [chuckles] I guess. 481 00:26:24,275 --> 00:26:27,275 But Dyan and Natalia, 482 00:26:27,275 --> 00:26:30,758 I knew that they were lying. 483 00:26:30,758 --> 00:26:33,172 -She was withdrawn and quiet. -Mmm-hmm. 484 00:26:33,172 --> 00:26:35,275 And didn't engage. 485 00:26:35,275 --> 00:26:37,448 [Robyn] Yeah, she would, like, look up first 486 00:26:38,448 --> 00:26:41,344 to make sure her answers were appropriate 487 00:26:42,172 --> 00:26:44,379 -for Dyan. -[Dwayne] And then you asked her 488 00:26:44,379 --> 00:26:46,965 what the Ukrainian orphanage was like. 489 00:26:46,965 --> 00:26:49,482 -Oh, yeah, yeah. -And she 490 00:26:49,482 --> 00:26:52,862 gave an uncoached answer, it was obvious. 491 00:26:52,862 --> 00:26:55,034 -[Robyn] Yeah, she said, "It sucked." -She said, "It sucked." 492 00:26:55,034 --> 00:26:57,172 And then Dyan interrupted her 493 00:26:57,172 --> 00:26:59,103 and seemed surprised that she said that 494 00:26:59,103 --> 00:27:02,482 and said, "Oh, no, it wasn't that bad. You were fine." 495 00:27:02,482 --> 00:27:06,379 It was almost like Dyan had to give her approval 496 00:27:06,379 --> 00:27:08,275 -[Robyn] For her to... Yeah. -...to come out. [scoffs] 497 00:27:08,275 --> 00:27:10,586 And then as soon as she said what she was coached to say, 498 00:27:10,586 --> 00:27:11,655 she went back in. 499 00:27:11,655 --> 00:27:15,275 I've never seen another person do that. 500 00:27:15,275 --> 00:27:16,689 -Even in movies. -[Robyn] Yeah. 501 00:27:16,689 --> 00:27:18,344 Even in The Exorcist. 502 00:27:19,758 --> 00:27:21,103 It scared the [bleep] out of me. 503 00:27:23,689 --> 00:27:25,655 I can feel evil when I come into her room. 504 00:27:28,862 --> 00:27:31,689 I couldn't really put my finger on whether 505 00:27:31,689 --> 00:27:34,379 it was the situation that was evil 506 00:27:34,379 --> 00:27:36,793 or Natalia, 507 00:27:36,793 --> 00:27:39,172 there was something wrong with her. 508 00:27:39,172 --> 00:27:41,448 And I think that's the first time 509 00:27:41,448 --> 00:27:45,172 I've ever completely trusted that intuition. 510 00:28:00,482 --> 00:28:03,862 Right then is when I made the decision 511 00:28:04,758 --> 00:28:06,586 that we-- this was not gonna happen. 512 00:28:06,586 --> 00:28:09,034 As-- as hard as it was to make that decision 513 00:28:09,034 --> 00:28:11,586 'cause I knew how it was going to affect you... 514 00:28:11,586 --> 00:28:13,275 And when I told you, I was like, there's... 515 00:28:13,275 --> 00:28:15,275 I can't put my finger on it 516 00:28:15,275 --> 00:28:16,862 but there's something wrong. 517 00:28:16,862 --> 00:28:19,793 When you called Dyan to tell her we weren't coming back, 518 00:28:19,793 --> 00:28:20,758 then... 519 00:28:21,965 --> 00:28:23,379 the story just got crazier. 520 00:28:23,379 --> 00:28:24,862 'Cause she went 521 00:28:26,379 --> 00:28:28,103 ballistic on the phone. 522 00:28:28,103 --> 00:28:30,448 She was furious. 523 00:28:30,448 --> 00:28:33,034 I could hear her through the phone yelling. 524 00:28:33,034 --> 00:28:36,103 -And so I was like, "Okay." -[Robyn] Yeah. 525 00:28:36,103 --> 00:28:38,689 We need to go, like, there was no telling what she was gonna do. 526 00:28:38,689 --> 00:28:40,655 I mean, she went nuts. 527 00:28:49,551 --> 00:28:51,448 [Judith] Kristine Barnett 528 00:28:51,448 --> 00:28:53,896 tried to contact me on Facebook 529 00:28:53,896 --> 00:28:56,793 not long after they adopted Natalia. 530 00:28:56,793 --> 00:28:59,206 And I wouldn't-- wouldn't talk to her. 531 00:29:00,551 --> 00:29:02,551 And I knew that things were not right. 532 00:29:02,551 --> 00:29:04,896 I don't know if she's trying to get me on her side 533 00:29:04,896 --> 00:29:08,034 or-- or what she's trying to do. I don't-- I don't know. 534 00:29:08,793 --> 00:29:10,379 But it's... 535 00:29:10,379 --> 00:29:13,586 I'm-- I'm not going to entertain 536 00:29:13,586 --> 00:29:15,241 even saying hello to her. 537 00:29:16,586 --> 00:29:20,793 The Barnetts claim that Natalia had threatened them. 538 00:29:20,793 --> 00:29:23,000 So what if-- even if she did threaten you? 539 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,000 You're the parent. 540 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,068 I've-- I'm a teacher. I have 600 students. 541 00:29:26,068 --> 00:29:28,448 Some of those are from really rough families. 542 00:29:28,448 --> 00:29:30,689 You know, and I've been told, 543 00:29:30,689 --> 00:29:32,068 "I'm gonna cut you up." 544 00:29:32,068 --> 00:29:34,241 I've been told, "I'm gonna drink your blood." 545 00:29:34,241 --> 00:29:37,655 Uh, I've been told all kinds of weird stuff. [chuckles] 546 00:29:37,655 --> 00:29:42,206 But I'm not truly scared that that's gonna happen. 547 00:29:42,896 --> 00:29:44,793 That child needs help. 548 00:29:44,793 --> 00:29:46,793 So you get that child help. 549 00:29:46,793 --> 00:29:51,551 So yeah, I find actually being scared of a child, um, 550 00:29:51,551 --> 00:29:54,241 when you're a full-size grown adult, 551 00:29:54,241 --> 00:29:55,724 a little ridiculous. 552 00:29:56,689 --> 00:30:00,586 So I started posting on an adoption message board 553 00:30:00,586 --> 00:30:02,241 asking about 554 00:30:03,896 --> 00:30:06,896 if anybody had any experience of a Natalia. 555 00:30:06,896 --> 00:30:09,241 What was it, like, a year later, 556 00:30:09,241 --> 00:30:12,551 that Michael Barnett emailed me out of the blue 557 00:30:12,551 --> 00:30:17,137 and said, "I think we adopted the little girl you were talking about." 558 00:30:17,137 --> 00:30:20,068 And he started to... Said her name, Natalia, 559 00:30:20,068 --> 00:30:23,137 -some other things. I was like, "Yep, that's her." -Yeah. 560 00:30:23,137 --> 00:30:25,896 Kristine, his wife, wanted to talk to you. 561 00:30:25,896 --> 00:30:28,896 Kristine and I kept in touch over Facebook Messenger 562 00:30:28,896 --> 00:30:30,068 for several years. 563 00:30:30,068 --> 00:30:33,517 It did seem like a lot of shady stuff going on. 564 00:30:34,896 --> 00:30:36,724 Michael and Kristine Barnett, I mean, 565 00:30:37,275 --> 00:30:39,068 they lied a lot. 566 00:30:39,068 --> 00:30:41,068 They will do anything to get what they want. 567 00:30:42,275 --> 00:30:44,517 They lie about Natalia being violent. 568 00:30:45,586 --> 00:30:48,275 You just don't know the true Barnetts. 569 00:30:48,275 --> 00:30:51,137 When Kristine started telling us all these crazy stories, 570 00:30:51,137 --> 00:30:53,206 we thought, "Wait a minute." 571 00:30:54,172 --> 00:30:56,551 I mean, she's tiny. 572 00:30:56,551 --> 00:30:59,068 -[Robyn] Yeah. -[Dwayne] These stories don't make sense. 573 00:30:59,793 --> 00:31:02,689 So we started figuring it out that 574 00:31:02,689 --> 00:31:05,655 everything Kristine told us wasn't the truth. 575 00:31:05,655 --> 00:31:09,068 [Robyn] Kristine was using me and Dwayne 576 00:31:09,068 --> 00:31:12,551 because if she could get us on her side 577 00:31:12,551 --> 00:31:16,137 believing, you know, that Natalia had issues, 578 00:31:16,137 --> 00:31:19,448 then she would feel justified in maybe getting rid of her. 579 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,137 Michael and Kristine Barnett 580 00:31:23,137 --> 00:31:26,793 not only lied to get her 581 00:31:26,793 --> 00:31:30,448 into their family, but they also lied to get rid of her. 582 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,172 If they wanted to claim she's older than what she is, 583 00:31:36,172 --> 00:31:38,241 I mean, I don't know where they came up with that. 584 00:31:38,241 --> 00:31:39,482 That's just crazy. 585 00:31:39,482 --> 00:31:41,137 Like, who thinks of that? 586 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,551 [Michael] Detective Clouse had told me, 587 00:31:44,551 --> 00:31:46,241 "You need to correct her age. 588 00:31:46,241 --> 00:31:49,862 This is our legal recommendation from the police department." 589 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:16,896 I am attaching a picture presumably 590 00:32:16,896 --> 00:32:19,344 taken at entry into United States. 591 00:32:36,379 --> 00:32:39,379 A home study report was prepared 592 00:32:39,379 --> 00:32:42,000 about the Barnetts, early 2010, 593 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,172 by a licensed social worker. 594 00:32:44,172 --> 00:32:46,068 One section that I found very troubling, 595 00:32:46,068 --> 00:32:48,551 and it's the background information. 596 00:32:48,551 --> 00:32:51,896 The worker asked Michael and Kristine 597 00:32:51,896 --> 00:32:55,000 if they had ever had any domestic violence 598 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,448 or disturbances at home and they both said no. 599 00:32:58,068 --> 00:33:00,655 The state took their word for it. 600 00:33:00,655 --> 00:33:04,000 Th--they relied on the self-reporting. 601 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,275 They should have gone to the local police to see if their names 602 00:33:06,275 --> 00:33:08,655 ever appeared because they would have found 603 00:33:08,655 --> 00:33:09,620 domestic violence 604 00:33:10,448 --> 00:33:11,862 in 2003, 605 00:33:12,689 --> 00:33:17,137 years before this home study evaluation. 606 00:33:18,379 --> 00:33:19,655 They're fighting. 607 00:33:19,655 --> 00:33:21,551 Michael's got Kristine in a headlock. 608 00:33:23,068 --> 00:33:24,965 And then he's pushed her. 609 00:33:28,551 --> 00:33:30,965 These are situations that are pretty serious. 610 00:33:32,655 --> 00:33:34,689 Scary, you know, to think of what could have been 611 00:33:34,689 --> 00:33:37,344 and what all the evil, dark secrets 612 00:33:37,344 --> 00:33:39,758 are that we don't even know that her coming to light. 613 00:33:42,379 --> 00:33:45,586 [Beth] It really doesn't shock me that Michael and Kristine have 614 00:33:45,586 --> 00:33:48,068 kept some of these family secrets secret. 615 00:33:48,068 --> 00:33:50,551 This is not the public persona they want to have. 616 00:33:55,172 --> 00:33:56,793 [Rachel] Every now and then, 617 00:33:56,793 --> 00:33:59,689 Michael and Kristine would be in the front yard arguing 618 00:33:59,689 --> 00:34:01,000 or fighting, 619 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,000 or... There was no-- I never saw anything physical. 620 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,965 It was just the yelling and the screaming. 621 00:34:06,793 --> 00:34:08,241 I felt sorry for Michael 622 00:34:08,241 --> 00:34:11,275 because she was degrading him 623 00:34:11,275 --> 00:34:13,379 and calling him a loser and a jerk. 624 00:34:13,379 --> 00:34:15,965 And I just was like, "God, that poor guy." 625 00:34:19,896 --> 00:34:22,585 I've been fooled by thinking that they were the perfect family, 626 00:34:22,585 --> 00:34:25,620 because I don't think they were the perfect family. 627 00:34:50,068 --> 00:34:51,068 [Michael exhales] 628 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,000 [Beth] There were a number of allegations 629 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,241 that Michael and Kristine made about Natalia 630 00:35:07,241 --> 00:35:09,793 acting out in a violent way. 631 00:35:09,793 --> 00:35:12,482 Most of them happened within the home, 632 00:35:12,482 --> 00:35:15,241 but the bottom line is every incident 633 00:35:15,241 --> 00:35:17,137 was told from the Barnetts' perspective. 634 00:35:17,137 --> 00:35:20,482 But the last one was different. 635 00:35:20,482 --> 00:35:24,034 The Traders Point Creamery incident had witnesses. 636 00:35:25,241 --> 00:35:26,241 I'm Chris. 637 00:35:26,241 --> 00:35:28,034 I worked at Traders Point Creamery 638 00:35:28,034 --> 00:35:32,655 as a herdsman from 2012 to 2015. 639 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,758 Uh, so I had gotten a call 640 00:35:37,758 --> 00:35:41,758 that there was some crisis on the electric fence. 641 00:35:41,758 --> 00:35:43,896 Officers were called and that we needed 642 00:35:43,896 --> 00:35:47,551 to take them down to where, uh, the individual was. 643 00:35:50,137 --> 00:35:51,793 So I was under the impression that 644 00:35:51,793 --> 00:35:54,137 when we got down there, that there was going to be 645 00:35:54,137 --> 00:35:56,172 uh, a little person who was, 646 00:35:56,172 --> 00:35:58,482 um, distressed, um, 647 00:35:58,482 --> 00:36:02,000 very emotional. When we get down there, um, 648 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,482 the caretaker seemed to be the one 649 00:36:04,482 --> 00:36:06,655 who was the emotional one of the two. 650 00:36:08,344 --> 00:36:10,793 And the little person seemed to be more calm 651 00:36:10,793 --> 00:36:13,034 and rational about the whole situation. 652 00:36:13,965 --> 00:36:16,344 There was no mention of, uh, the caretaker 653 00:36:16,344 --> 00:36:18,310 being at risk or anything like that. 654 00:36:20,344 --> 00:36:22,000 Natalia had been trying to pull Kristine 655 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,379 into the electric fence. 656 00:36:23,379 --> 00:36:25,137 She'd been screaming out loud, 657 00:36:25,137 --> 00:36:26,793 "[bleep] bitch, I'm gonna kill you. 658 00:36:26,793 --> 00:36:29,103 I am going to kill you, you bitch. You're gonna die." 659 00:36:32,379 --> 00:36:33,310 So, uh, 660 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,137 I was there with, uh, the officer. 661 00:36:36,137 --> 00:36:38,586 I don't remember any of that being said. 662 00:36:38,586 --> 00:36:41,241 I don't remember there being any threats 663 00:36:41,241 --> 00:36:43,793 about being, "I'm going to [bleep] kill you," 664 00:36:43,793 --> 00:36:45,275 or anything like that. 665 00:36:45,275 --> 00:36:48,689 I just felt like the situation had kinda been overblown 666 00:36:48,689 --> 00:36:51,000 and it was not really that big of a deal. 667 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,000 Like, I have a fairly good memory 668 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,172 and I am positive I would remember that. 669 00:37:00,137 --> 00:37:02,482 The biggest thing I remember is thinking that 670 00:37:02,482 --> 00:37:06,000 if I had to deal with the adult caretaker, 671 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,034 that, uh, I would be really frustrated, 672 00:37:09,034 --> 00:37:11,137 uh, just because it felt like 673 00:37:11,137 --> 00:37:13,931 she seemed to be making the situation worse. 674 00:37:15,689 --> 00:37:17,034 My name's Mark Hostetler 675 00:37:17,034 --> 00:37:20,241 and at Traders Point, I was the farm manager. 676 00:37:20,241 --> 00:37:22,862 I got a phone call from one of my employees 677 00:37:22,862 --> 00:37:24,482 saying, "Hey, we've got an issue. 678 00:37:24,482 --> 00:37:27,103 There's somebody on the walking trail. They're having a crisis. 679 00:37:27,103 --> 00:37:29,793 What should we do? Can you turn the fence off?" 680 00:37:29,793 --> 00:37:32,241 Or is it dangerous, was also the question. 681 00:37:32,241 --> 00:37:34,689 And both the answers I should say were, uh, 682 00:37:34,689 --> 00:37:36,344 "No, it's-- it's not dangerous." 683 00:37:36,344 --> 00:37:39,241 And also, "No, I can't turn it off 'cause it's already off, I think." 684 00:37:39,241 --> 00:37:41,000 That section of fence isn't even on today 685 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,275 because the cows are in a different part of the-- the farm. 686 00:37:43,275 --> 00:37:46,689 And so my response was maybe a little callous. 687 00:37:46,689 --> 00:37:49,758 [chuckles] But mostly because the threat was so hollow. 688 00:37:53,137 --> 00:37:54,275 [Judith] I can't imagine 689 00:37:54,275 --> 00:37:56,206 taking a child's threats, 690 00:37:57,137 --> 00:37:59,379 like, so seriously. 691 00:37:59,379 --> 00:38:02,310 Being truly scared. Now, you could take their threats serious, 692 00:38:02,896 --> 00:38:04,793 but we're not even super strong. 693 00:38:04,793 --> 00:38:06,379 We're diastrophics. 694 00:38:06,379 --> 00:38:07,482 We have joint problems. 695 00:38:07,482 --> 00:38:09,758 We have all kinds of issues that would make it 696 00:38:09,758 --> 00:38:12,896 difficult for us to truly overcome someone. 697 00:38:12,896 --> 00:38:16,172 We don't have the capability of truly hurting an adult. 698 00:38:16,172 --> 00:38:19,103 You know, unless, you know, there was firearms involved. 699 00:38:19,103 --> 00:38:20,241 [laughs] 700 00:38:21,379 --> 00:38:22,965 But someone like me, 701 00:38:23,793 --> 00:38:25,379 I couldn't damage an adult. 702 00:38:25,379 --> 00:38:26,655 They could just hold me off. 703 00:38:31,482 --> 00:38:33,793 If Michael's version of what happened 704 00:38:33,793 --> 00:38:36,655 at Traders Point Creamery is not true, 705 00:38:37,586 --> 00:38:40,379 that Natalia really did not try to push her 706 00:38:40,379 --> 00:38:42,379 into an electric fence and "kill her," 707 00:38:42,379 --> 00:38:45,241 then it casts doubt on all the other allegations 708 00:38:45,241 --> 00:38:47,482 of Natalia's acting out 709 00:38:47,482 --> 00:38:50,689 that Michael and Kristine have reported. 710 00:38:50,689 --> 00:38:53,241 I don't know though that anyone can get to the truth here 711 00:38:53,241 --> 00:38:55,586 because there are so many stories 712 00:38:55,586 --> 00:38:56,965 from everybody. 713 00:38:59,275 --> 00:39:00,275 For example, 714 00:39:00,275 --> 00:39:02,137 Michael's version of what happened here 715 00:39:02,137 --> 00:39:04,344 is not necessarily reliable. 716 00:39:08,482 --> 00:39:11,379 At the Traders Point incident, how did the police react? 717 00:39:11,379 --> 00:39:12,275 I don't know. 718 00:39:12,275 --> 00:39:14,965 My-- My sons and I were out in the forest. 719 00:39:14,965 --> 00:39:18,241 We... When we saw the police lights had arrived, 720 00:39:18,241 --> 00:39:20,482 we still had a good mile, mile and a half 721 00:39:20,482 --> 00:39:22,482 of running through a forest 722 00:39:22,482 --> 00:39:25,137 to get back on the path to get back up there. 723 00:39:25,137 --> 00:39:28,862 So by the time all four of us get all the way back up there, 724 00:39:28,862 --> 00:39:30,586 Natalia's already gone. 725 00:39:30,586 --> 00:39:33,000 The officer with her is already gone. 726 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,551 I don't speak to the officers, I speak to my wife. 727 00:39:38,379 --> 00:39:39,586 We keep going, we keep going. 728 00:39:39,586 --> 00:39:42,551 We're about 40, 50 yards down, I start hearing screaming. 729 00:39:45,172 --> 00:39:46,896 I turn to look. 730 00:39:46,896 --> 00:39:51,034 Natalia and Kristine are in a physical altercation. 731 00:39:51,034 --> 00:39:54,034 It looks like Natalia's trying to pull Kristine. 732 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,482 Look, I don't know what the truth is, 733 00:40:00,482 --> 00:40:03,482 but this raises a question in my mind 734 00:40:03,482 --> 00:40:06,379 of whether or not Michael and Kristine 735 00:40:06,379 --> 00:40:07,965 kinda orchestrated 736 00:40:07,965 --> 00:40:11,172 the Traders Point Creamery incident. 737 00:40:11,172 --> 00:40:14,379 They wanted an outside incident 738 00:40:14,379 --> 00:40:17,137 where there would be you know, some 739 00:40:17,137 --> 00:40:19,344 potential witnesses maybe, 740 00:40:19,344 --> 00:40:22,275 uh, and she would be taken away 741 00:40:22,275 --> 00:40:23,655 for good this time. 742 00:40:35,379 --> 00:40:36,586 [woman speaking] 743 00:40:36,586 --> 00:40:37,551 [Natalia] Okay. 744 00:40:53,034 --> 00:40:54,034 -Yes. -[woman] Okay. 745 00:40:58,379 --> 00:40:59,379 Yes. 746 00:40:59,379 --> 00:41:00,551 [woman speaking] 747 00:41:08,793 --> 00:41:09,655 [woman] Mmm-hmm. 748 00:41:57,379 --> 00:41:58,310 [woman] Mmm-hmm. 749 00:42:01,379 --> 00:42:02,310 [woman speaking] 750 00:42:05,103 --> 00:42:06,586 [Beth] The closer you look 751 00:42:06,586 --> 00:42:08,241 into this case and dig, 752 00:42:09,689 --> 00:42:13,103 the harder it is to know where the truth lies. 753 00:42:14,275 --> 00:42:15,172 Maybe there's more than one villain in this story.