1 00:00:02,170 --> 00:00:03,670 [reporter] There have been further shocking developments 2 00:00:03,671 --> 00:00:06,111 in the Mineola Swingers Club Case today. 3 00:00:06,107 --> 00:00:10,807 With defendants Jimmy Sones and Shelia Sones now free after taking plea deals, 4 00:00:10,811 --> 00:00:13,281 the convictions of three of the other defendants 5 00:00:13,281 --> 00:00:15,951 look increasingly likely to be overturned. 6 00:00:16,617 --> 00:00:18,517 [thuds] 7 00:00:18,519 --> 00:00:20,919 [Mike] After the lawyers for the Jamie Pittman, 8 00:00:20,921 --> 00:00:24,761 and Shauntel Mayo and Patrick Kelly cases filed appeals, 9 00:00:24,758 --> 00:00:28,428 the 14th Court of Appeals threw out those verdicts, 10 00:00:28,429 --> 00:00:31,599 based on numerous evidentiary errors 11 00:00:31,599 --> 00:00:34,439 that the court said that Judge Jack Skeen had made. 12 00:00:34,435 --> 00:00:36,135 And this was something that the defense attorneys 13 00:00:36,137 --> 00:00:38,607 had complained about the whole time, 14 00:00:38,606 --> 00:00:40,606 Skeen seemed to be siding with the state 15 00:00:40,608 --> 00:00:45,408 and he did it to such an extent that the court threw out those verdicts. 16 00:00:47,148 --> 00:00:51,688 He went to all the other defendants and offered them plea bargains. 17 00:00:51,685 --> 00:00:54,255 To plead guilty to injury to a child 18 00:00:55,156 --> 00:00:57,056 and time served so they could get out. 19 00:00:57,057 --> 00:00:58,327 [camera shutter clicks] 20 00:00:58,326 --> 00:01:02,426 [Melinda] But Dennis Pittman still had an appeal pending 21 00:01:02,430 --> 00:01:05,900 and so Dennis wasn't offered the plea bargain. 22 00:01:05,899 --> 00:01:10,399 It was assumed he would get out shortly afterwards, like the others. 23 00:01:10,404 --> 00:01:12,644 - [Melinda] But by then, Patrick Kelly, - [camera shutter clicks] 24 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,680 Jamie Pittman and Shauntel had been in jail for almost four years. 25 00:01:19,247 --> 00:01:23,447 [Mike] Matt Bingham, one of the most law-and-order prosecutors, 26 00:01:24,185 --> 00:01:26,815 makes a deal to let out 27 00:01:26,820 --> 00:01:31,460 a bunch of the most perverted, maniacal, 28 00:01:31,459 --> 00:01:36,159 criminal monsters that had ever struck Texas? 29 00:01:36,164 --> 00:01:40,334 If Matt Bingham really believed that they had done what 30 00:01:40,334 --> 00:01:43,904 he had prosecuted them doing for four years, 31 00:01:43,904 --> 00:01:45,974 do you really think he would have let them go? 32 00:01:45,973 --> 00:01:50,443 Absolutely not. They would be rotting in prison for the rest of their lives. 33 00:01:52,446 --> 00:01:53,446 [theme music playing] 34 00:01:56,217 --> 00:01:59,187 [woman speaking] 35 00:02:02,790 --> 00:02:05,030 [child speaking] 36 00:02:05,025 --> 00:02:06,355 [man speaking] 37 00:02:07,895 --> 00:02:10,225 [boy speaking] 38 00:02:11,565 --> 00:02:15,335 [man speaking] 39 00:02:15,336 --> 00:02:16,596 [girl speaking] 40 00:02:25,746 --> 00:02:28,446 [Reporter] Patrick Kelly, nicknamed Booger Red, 41 00:02:28,449 --> 00:02:32,319 was sentenced to life in prison for his role in the alleged child sex ring. 42 00:02:35,989 --> 00:02:38,089 I was locked up for almost four years. 43 00:02:39,059 --> 00:02:40,459 [Patrick] When I was in prison, 44 00:02:40,461 --> 00:02:43,631 they overturned my case and offered that plea and I accepted it. 45 00:02:46,734 --> 00:02:48,344 I was tired, I wanted to get out. 46 00:02:49,670 --> 00:02:51,370 I wanted to see my family. 47 00:02:51,372 --> 00:02:55,282 I wanted to see my mother. I wanted to see my brother, my wife, my son. 48 00:02:55,276 --> 00:02:58,076 [Patrick] What's up bud? 49 00:02:58,078 --> 00:03:03,248 This is my world right here. I will fight a grizzly bear for him. 50 00:03:03,251 --> 00:03:06,291 I'm not that good anymore, but I'll still try. 51 00:03:06,287 --> 00:03:09,017 I'll give him my best shot that's for damn sure. [laughs] 52 00:03:11,725 --> 00:03:14,255 [Steven] When he actually went to jail and they told me 53 00:03:14,262 --> 00:03:19,502 that's what they're accusing him of and the DA tried to get me to turn against him. 54 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,640 I told them they're crazy 55 00:03:21,635 --> 00:03:23,735 because my dad ain't never done anything like that. 56 00:03:24,872 --> 00:03:26,672 'Cause it... 57 00:03:26,674 --> 00:03:29,084 That was just all made up stuff in their head. 58 00:03:31,111 --> 00:03:33,451 To me, that's the worst thing in the world for you to do, 59 00:03:34,081 --> 00:03:35,681 is to molest a child, 60 00:03:35,683 --> 00:03:38,393 But yet I got convicted on hearsay. 61 00:03:38,386 --> 00:03:42,916 It's what was said, no proof of anything, it's just what was said. 62 00:03:42,923 --> 00:03:46,033 [Patrick] I mean, these people don't even know me, know nothing about me, 63 00:03:46,026 --> 00:03:48,296 just because of my nickname, I was the devil. 64 00:03:49,630 --> 00:03:53,030 For Margie Cantrell to do the things she's done, 65 00:03:53,033 --> 00:03:56,043 to brainwash them kids to say the things they said, 66 00:03:56,036 --> 00:03:58,906 because these kids are going to be traumatized for the rest of their lives. 67 00:03:58,906 --> 00:04:00,636 Margie Cantrell is a monster. 68 00:04:01,141 --> 00:04:03,041 [rooster crowing] 69 00:04:03,644 --> 00:04:07,354 [dog barking] 70 00:04:11,619 --> 00:04:13,919 [rooster crowing] 71 00:04:13,921 --> 00:04:17,431 [Shuantel] This is Margie and John Cantrell 72 00:04:17,425 --> 00:04:20,825 and all of their foster children. And my three children. 73 00:04:21,995 --> 00:04:24,395 That woman and that man stole my life. 74 00:04:25,633 --> 00:04:27,203 [camera shutter clicking] 75 00:04:27,701 --> 00:04:29,141 Prison was hard. 76 00:04:30,671 --> 00:04:32,141 I learned how to fight. 77 00:04:33,006 --> 00:04:34,636 I was sexually abused in prison, 78 00:04:36,510 --> 00:04:38,350 by a group of women. 79 00:04:39,980 --> 00:04:41,720 I was very targeted. 80 00:04:43,250 --> 00:04:45,020 There was no reason to live anymore. 81 00:04:47,087 --> 00:04:50,357 But I knew that God wasn't going to leave me there 82 00:04:50,358 --> 00:04:52,688 I didn't know how long it was going to take to get me home. 83 00:04:55,529 --> 00:04:59,569 I filled my time with Bible studies and law books. 84 00:05:01,168 --> 00:05:05,908 In 2011, I could have probably took my bar exam and passed. 85 00:05:06,474 --> 00:05:07,744 That's how hard I worked. 86 00:05:11,445 --> 00:05:12,805 After I got out of prison, 87 00:05:13,414 --> 00:05:14,784 I knew by law, 88 00:05:14,782 --> 00:05:18,222 I would never get to have contact with my kids 89 00:05:18,218 --> 00:05:19,948 until they were 18 and they found me. 90 00:05:21,254 --> 00:05:22,424 It was... it was horrible. 91 00:05:34,835 --> 00:05:37,265 [Hunter] Margie was an attention hog. 92 00:05:37,270 --> 00:05:40,610 Her appearance to the public was important to her. 93 00:05:40,608 --> 00:05:44,678 So when we went on outings like this, I remember this is at the zoo. 94 00:05:44,678 --> 00:05:46,478 - [camera shutter clicks] - [Hunter] I remember this picture. 95 00:05:47,948 --> 00:05:50,448 [Hunter] This was more of just like a show of like, 96 00:05:50,451 --> 00:05:52,591 like "Oh, hey, I got this big happy family." 97 00:05:52,586 --> 00:05:54,816 But it was pretend. 98 00:05:54,822 --> 00:05:58,792 Behind closed doors, this was not true. 99 00:05:58,792 --> 00:06:01,562 The entire time with the Cantrells was 100 00:06:01,562 --> 00:06:03,932 the worst time of my life. 101 00:06:03,931 --> 00:06:06,201 [birds screeching] 102 00:06:13,073 --> 00:06:15,883 [Hunter] Being back here brings back a lot of memories. 103 00:06:15,876 --> 00:06:17,446 [camera shutter clicks] 104 00:06:17,445 --> 00:06:19,705 [Hunter] I was always worried. Always scared. 105 00:06:21,715 --> 00:06:23,715 Margie was just, she was an animal. 106 00:06:25,653 --> 00:06:29,563 [Carly] The back scratcher was the main punishment for everything. 107 00:06:32,059 --> 00:06:33,629 They would pull your pants down, 108 00:06:34,795 --> 00:06:36,595 whoop you with that, we'd have welts 109 00:06:36,597 --> 00:06:39,227 on our backs and everything. 110 00:06:41,134 --> 00:06:42,944 And you weren't allowed to cry. 111 00:06:42,936 --> 00:06:45,306 If you cried, you got whupped again. 112 00:06:52,012 --> 00:06:55,322 [Hunter] Making Margie angry was as simple as 113 00:06:55,849 --> 00:06:57,279 taking a cookie, 114 00:06:57,284 --> 00:06:59,554 just 'cause you didn't ask permission for it. 115 00:06:59,553 --> 00:07:02,163 [Carly] Or going outside without permission. 116 00:07:02,155 --> 00:07:04,215 [Hunter] Or talking to the neighbors without permission. 117 00:07:04,224 --> 00:07:08,034 It was everything, you know, we... we couldn't be kids. 118 00:07:08,028 --> 00:07:08,928 We weren't allowed to. 119 00:07:12,866 --> 00:07:16,196 I remember the time whenever I'd used all the blankets in the closet 120 00:07:16,203 --> 00:07:19,743 she had repeatedly bashed my head into the doorframe, 121 00:07:19,740 --> 00:07:22,210 she used to drag us across the floor downstairs. 122 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,380 [Carly] I think the worst thing that happened to me 123 00:07:28,381 --> 00:07:30,851 was when my head got slammed into the tile floor. 124 00:07:33,286 --> 00:07:35,056 It was right around here. 125 00:07:38,892 --> 00:07:43,132 I ran away and she was yelling and stuff about me leaving. 126 00:07:44,565 --> 00:07:46,665 She ended up slamming my head. 127 00:07:46,667 --> 00:07:49,267 I was on my knees and she ended up slamming my head. 128 00:07:51,905 --> 00:07:59,445 [Hunter] I was downstairs and I heard the crash on the tile and I ran upstairs, 129 00:07:59,547 --> 00:08:02,117 and I saw Carly on the ground, 130 00:08:04,151 --> 00:08:05,551 it really set me off. 131 00:08:06,820 --> 00:08:08,120 It was just something you didn't do. 132 00:08:08,121 --> 00:08:10,061 You didn't put your hands on my sisters, no matter what you did. 133 00:08:13,561 --> 00:08:15,261 [Margie] Carly's never been struck. 134 00:08:15,262 --> 00:08:18,672 Carly has never had a spank and a swat, nothing, ever. 135 00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:20,296 Hunter was. 136 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:22,040 Not by the back scratcher. 137 00:08:22,035 --> 00:08:25,235 I can sit here and say, "Oh, no, no, no, never." No, no I did. 138 00:08:29,577 --> 00:08:33,247 I slapped him a few times. I popped him in the mouth a few times. 139 00:08:52,499 --> 00:08:57,039 Not long after that, a hearing was held in family court in Tyler. 140 00:08:57,037 --> 00:09:00,067 Finally, the world's gonna see who these people really are. 141 00:09:01,842 --> 00:09:04,612 [Female reporter] Our top is about the hearing that took place today 142 00:09:04,612 --> 00:09:06,752 regarding the welfare of the foster children 143 00:09:06,747 --> 00:09:09,877 currently in the care of John and Margie Cantrell. 144 00:09:09,883 --> 00:09:13,823 Those children were the victims of the Mineola Sex ring trials. 145 00:09:13,821 --> 00:09:16,791 Representatives from Child Protective Services and attorneys 146 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:20,230 were in court to hear the judges remarks about what to do with the children 147 00:09:20,227 --> 00:09:22,727 currently in the Cantrell's home. 148 00:09:22,730 --> 00:09:25,630 [male reporter] The allegations of abuse came from multiple children. 149 00:09:25,633 --> 00:09:29,673 One child alleged being beaten with a wooden back scratcher until it snapped 150 00:09:29,670 --> 00:09:33,640 And another alleged that Margie Cantrell popped her in the mouth and slapped her. 151 00:09:37,878 --> 00:09:41,308 [Judge speaking] 152 00:09:49,289 --> 00:09:55,299 The children were ultimately removed from Margie and John, um because of physical abuse 153 00:09:55,295 --> 00:09:57,395 [judge speaking] 154 00:10:06,473 --> 00:10:09,213 They didn't make that choice. I made that choice. 155 00:10:09,209 --> 00:10:14,109 Like they said, um, "These are her kids. She can relinquish them." 156 00:10:14,114 --> 00:10:18,424 And I chose to relinquish the conservatorship. 157 00:10:20,220 --> 00:10:22,360 [male reporter] Also in the courtroom was Shauntel Mayo, 158 00:10:22,355 --> 00:10:24,985 herself a defendant in the Mineola Swingers Club case 159 00:10:24,992 --> 00:10:28,362 and the mother of three children removed today from the Cantrell household. 160 00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:32,800 My heart's relieved, 161 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,870 because they've known before my kids were put in there. 162 00:10:36,870 --> 00:10:39,070 They took them out of a good loving home, 163 00:10:39,072 --> 00:10:43,282 granted there was issues in our home, but it wasn't issues that was accused of. 164 00:10:45,078 --> 00:10:48,878 And put them into a worse situation for nine years, they've been abused. 165 00:10:48,882 --> 00:10:50,222 - So that's not true. - [indistinct chatter] 166 00:10:50,217 --> 00:10:54,687 and this is the lies they were spreading in the news about us. 167 00:10:54,688 --> 00:10:56,758 [male reporter] Throughout the Swingers Club Sex Ring Trial, 168 00:10:56,757 --> 00:10:59,227 foster mother Margaret Cantrell was instrumental 169 00:10:59,226 --> 00:11:02,596 instrumental in exposing the alleged abuse in Mineola and Tyler. 170 00:11:02,595 --> 00:11:05,625 However with these fresh accusations about her own conduct, 171 00:11:05,733 --> 00:11:09,073 the credibility of some of her statements has come into question. 172 00:11:09,069 --> 00:11:13,109 I believe, uh, from looking at that, 173 00:11:13,106 --> 00:11:16,976 that, uh, we were played in the media. 174 00:11:16,977 --> 00:11:21,917 To take innocent people and start slamming them is disgusting. 175 00:11:21,915 --> 00:11:23,575 I think, over a course of time, 176 00:11:23,583 --> 00:11:27,323 we might be seeing very interesting statements from these kids 177 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,460 about what actually happened to them. 178 00:11:29,456 --> 00:11:33,786 It's Thad Davidson, just pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. 179 00:11:33,794 --> 00:11:38,874 "If we can ever get the children away from Margie Cantrell's custody, 180 00:11:38,866 --> 00:11:42,436 we can get them to tell the truth." 181 00:11:42,435 --> 00:11:45,035 - Would you guys like to say anything? - No. 182 00:11:45,038 --> 00:11:47,338 - No, I don't think it's proper. - Nah. 183 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:51,310 What do you think about these allegations that are being made against you? 184 00:11:51,311 --> 00:11:54,151 We don't even know most of them yet. [laughs] 185 00:11:55,883 --> 00:11:58,553 - [lawyer] Margaret! Don't talk to him. Go. - Yes, Ma'am. 186 00:11:58,551 --> 00:11:59,691 Yes, Ma'am. 187 00:11:59,787 --> 00:12:01,957 - No. - Go, hurry up. 188 00:12:02,555 --> 00:12:03,815 [lawyer] Go. 189 00:12:04,792 --> 00:12:06,492 [reporter] Would you like to say anything... 190 00:12:07,627 --> 00:12:11,427 We decided that the best thing, is to go back home. 191 00:12:12,632 --> 00:12:14,942 Home was always Vacaville, 192 00:12:16,636 --> 00:12:19,666 where we were loved, where people knew us, knew what we were like 193 00:12:21,842 --> 00:12:23,812 And it would be better. 194 00:12:24,812 --> 00:12:26,582 Yes, it was a dream home. 195 00:12:28,481 --> 00:12:33,451 But we loaded what we could load in a U-Haul and a trailer behind it. 196 00:12:33,453 --> 00:12:35,463 And everything else that we ever owned, 197 00:12:36,857 --> 00:12:38,827 was left behind. We locked the door, 198 00:12:40,493 --> 00:12:41,463 and we drove away. 199 00:12:53,473 --> 00:12:54,843 [camera shutter clicks] 200 00:12:54,842 --> 00:12:58,752 [Hunter] When they came to get us, I felt like it's about time. 201 00:12:58,846 --> 00:13:02,016 It had been so many years dealing with her 202 00:13:02,015 --> 00:13:05,445 it was just a major, major feeling of relief to get out of here. 203 00:13:20,233 --> 00:13:22,873 I was having a lot of issues with 204 00:13:23,570 --> 00:13:25,110 my adopted parents. 205 00:13:25,738 --> 00:13:27,338 We were not seeing eye to eye. 206 00:13:27,340 --> 00:13:30,180 And so I was you know like, "What can I do?" 207 00:13:30,177 --> 00:13:32,307 And then I thought about it, and I was like, 208 00:13:32,312 --> 00:13:34,952 "Well, I... I can look up my dad." 209 00:13:36,116 --> 00:13:40,086 And I got the idea to look him up on Facebook. 210 00:13:40,087 --> 00:13:44,057 We wasn't allowed to have any type of contact with Gabby. 211 00:13:44,057 --> 00:13:46,557 Uh, she would had to been eighteen years old before 212 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,999 we were supposed to have contact with her. 213 00:13:48,996 --> 00:13:52,726 I got a Facebook page and all that stuff and I posted a lot of stuff in there, 214 00:13:52,732 --> 00:13:58,012 pictures and stuff of Gabby. And I left it open to the public. 215 00:13:58,005 --> 00:14:01,005 [Gabby] And that's how I found him and then I contacted him. 216 00:14:01,774 --> 00:14:03,944 She gave me her phone number. 217 00:14:03,944 --> 00:14:07,454 I called her and the next day her and her boyfriend come out to visit. 218 00:14:08,381 --> 00:14:09,981 As soon as I got out of the car, 219 00:14:09,983 --> 00:14:11,623 tears were running down my eyes 220 00:14:12,953 --> 00:14:14,523 and I just embraced her. 221 00:14:15,655 --> 00:14:18,025 I don't even know how long we stood there hugging. 222 00:14:18,025 --> 00:14:21,995 It was a happy, very happy emotional day. 223 00:14:21,995 --> 00:14:23,925 [Gabby] He hugged me for a really long time. 224 00:14:23,931 --> 00:14:26,101 - [camera shutter clicks] - [Gabby] It had been eight years 225 00:14:26,099 --> 00:14:27,829 since the last time I'd seen him. 226 00:14:37,810 --> 00:14:41,650 [Gabby] At that time, I was having a lot of problems with my foster parents 227 00:14:41,648 --> 00:14:44,518 - and so I... I just had enough. - [camera shutter clicks] 228 00:14:44,517 --> 00:14:47,547 [Gabby] I ran away and I never looked back. 229 00:14:49,522 --> 00:14:51,362 [Jimmy] When she ran away, 230 00:14:51,358 --> 00:14:53,558 she called me wanting me to come pick her up. 231 00:14:54,694 --> 00:14:56,234 So, I did. 232 00:14:57,264 --> 00:14:59,134 I damn sure wasn't gonna turn her down. 233 00:14:59,132 --> 00:15:00,402 [camera shutter clicks] 234 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,400 [Gabby] There was no way I was going to be able to come home, 235 00:15:02,402 --> 00:15:05,412 not actually having formally recanted. 236 00:15:09,576 --> 00:15:11,376 [Mike] Jimmy read some of my stories 237 00:15:11,378 --> 00:15:13,348 and in 2014 called me up. 238 00:15:14,481 --> 00:15:17,051 And he said, Gabby really wants to talk to you. 239 00:15:17,050 --> 00:15:19,020 And so, we met at this truck stop, 240 00:15:22,655 --> 00:15:26,255 and all of a sudden, this big rig comes pulling into the parking lot and 241 00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:29,559 Jimmy gets out and he's... he's he's got this Duck Dynasty shirt on. 242 00:15:29,562 --> 00:15:34,302 And... and there's Gabby, who just looked like a goth teenager. 243 00:15:34,301 --> 00:15:37,001 They came in, and they sat down, and, and she was real nervous. 244 00:15:37,004 --> 00:15:38,644 I remember her, 245 00:15:38,638 --> 00:15:40,508 her leg going up and down and 246 00:15:42,009 --> 00:15:43,479 she just started spilling. 247 00:15:43,476 --> 00:15:45,046 Can... can I read what she said? 248 00:15:48,048 --> 00:15:50,218 She told me that everything they'd said was a lie. 249 00:15:51,051 --> 00:15:53,751 "Sex kindergarten, the swingers' club. 250 00:15:53,753 --> 00:15:56,863 Their parents and all the other adults were innocent. 251 00:15:56,856 --> 00:16:00,186 She said, "They literally blew up my mind and planted stuff in it. 252 00:16:00,827 --> 00:16:02,497 I'm furious about it. 253 00:16:02,495 --> 00:16:05,465 They lied to me, they used me, they screwed up my life. 254 00:16:07,067 --> 00:16:09,697 And she said, my ultimate goal is for this to be overturned. 255 00:16:09,702 --> 00:16:11,942 My goal for myself is just to tell the truth." 256 00:16:14,441 --> 00:16:16,711 And not only Gabby, but Hunter recanted as well. 257 00:16:16,709 --> 00:16:18,349 [camera shutter clicks] 258 00:16:18,345 --> 00:16:21,175 When I got a bit older, I actually pulled my older sister 259 00:16:21,181 --> 00:16:23,181 aside and asked her, you know, 260 00:16:23,183 --> 00:16:25,223 do you actually remember 261 00:16:25,218 --> 00:16:27,848 any of this swingers club stuff happening? 262 00:16:27,854 --> 00:16:31,164 'Cause I started realizing I don't remember any of this. 263 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,060 And that's when it really clicked that Margie 264 00:16:36,063 --> 00:16:37,063 brainwashed us. 265 00:16:40,067 --> 00:16:44,797 In the beginning, she asked me if anybody had touched us and things like that. 266 00:16:44,804 --> 00:16:46,474 At first I said no. 267 00:16:46,473 --> 00:16:48,243 [Margie speaking] 268 00:16:50,743 --> 00:16:52,353 [Hunter speaking] 269 00:16:52,345 --> 00:16:56,545 But eventually, I just basically started repeating what Margie had been asking. 270 00:16:56,549 --> 00:16:58,089 [Margie speaking] 271 00:17:00,187 --> 00:17:01,517 [Hunter speaking] 272 00:17:06,393 --> 00:17:07,893 [Margie speaking] 273 00:17:08,761 --> 00:17:10,001 [Margie speaking] 274 00:17:10,097 --> 00:17:11,897 [indistinct chatter] 275 00:17:11,898 --> 00:17:14,228 [Dr. Wood] My name is Dr. James Wood. 276 00:17:14,234 --> 00:17:19,244 I'm a retired professor of psychology at the University of Texas at El Paso 277 00:17:19,239 --> 00:17:23,209 A lot of my research has been on child interviewing, child suggestibility. 278 00:17:23,743 --> 00:17:28,523 [Margie speaking] 279 00:17:31,351 --> 00:17:34,321 One of the more amazing things was just seeing those 280 00:17:34,321 --> 00:17:36,691 interviews and then how they were conducted. 281 00:17:36,689 --> 00:17:38,129 [Margie speaking] 282 00:17:38,558 --> 00:17:39,928 [Hunter speaking] 283 00:17:40,427 --> 00:17:43,757 [Margie speaking] 284 00:17:43,763 --> 00:17:44,933 [Hunter speaking] 285 00:17:44,931 --> 00:17:46,401 [Margie speaking] 286 00:17:46,866 --> 00:17:48,536 Okay. 287 00:17:48,535 --> 00:17:53,835 Introducing information. So we've had, uh kindergarten and did anything nasty happen? 288 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,140 And you put them together. So you've actually linked the two ideas, so that 289 00:17:57,144 --> 00:18:02,424 suggests to... to Hunter, we want a statement about nasty things in kindergarten, right. 290 00:18:02,415 --> 00:18:04,445 That's coming from the adults, not from him. 291 00:18:04,451 --> 00:18:05,621 [Margie] Where did that happen? 292 00:18:07,019 --> 00:18:08,619 [Ranger Kemp speaking] 293 00:18:12,024 --> 00:18:14,494 [Dr. Wood] Margie is the last person you want touching that 294 00:18:14,494 --> 00:18:16,364 child as you try to get a statement from him. 295 00:18:16,996 --> 00:18:19,466 She's pressuring him. 296 00:18:19,466 --> 00:18:23,466 She's demonstrating her control, she pulls his hands down like that. 297 00:18:23,470 --> 00:18:25,340 She's giving him a lot of signals about, 298 00:18:26,306 --> 00:18:28,276 you're gonna do what I want right now. 299 00:18:28,275 --> 00:18:29,735 [Ranger Kemp speaking] 300 00:18:30,410 --> 00:18:31,480 [Carly speaking] 301 00:18:31,478 --> 00:18:32,878 [Ranger Kemp speaking] 302 00:18:32,879 --> 00:18:35,849 [Dr. Wood] Another suggestive interviewing technique is 303 00:18:35,848 --> 00:18:37,818 giving positive feedback, 304 00:18:37,817 --> 00:18:41,487 which is praising a child for making an accusation. 305 00:18:41,488 --> 00:18:43,358 Saying, "You're doing a great job." 306 00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:45,986 [Ranger Kemp speaking] 307 00:18:57,370 --> 00:19:01,640 When Margie is with Shelby or Margie is with Hunter, 308 00:19:01,641 --> 00:19:05,111 one thing is you could say, well, that's their caretaker, right? 309 00:19:05,212 --> 00:19:09,222 But in the case of Gabby, they had no relationship. 310 00:19:09,216 --> 00:19:11,116 She wasn't her foster child. 311 00:19:11,218 --> 00:19:14,648 And yet Kemp brings Margie in to question Gabby. 312 00:19:15,288 --> 00:19:17,088 [Margie clears throat] 313 00:19:17,089 --> 00:19:20,329 [Gabby] They would pull us into this room. It was a small white room. 314 00:19:20,327 --> 00:19:24,327 It was just the same question, just in different words, over, and over again. 315 00:19:24,331 --> 00:19:28,341 Just hours of the same question, wanting me to change my answer. 316 00:19:28,968 --> 00:19:30,238 [Margie speaking] 317 00:19:35,242 --> 00:19:36,442 [Gabby speaking] 318 00:19:36,443 --> 00:19:38,683 [Margie speaking] 319 00:19:38,678 --> 00:19:40,008 [Gabby speaking] 320 00:19:40,012 --> 00:19:42,012 [Margie speaking] 321 00:19:42,014 --> 00:19:43,784 So they can't get her to change her story. 322 00:19:43,783 --> 00:19:47,253 So they put her in a room with Shelby and let Shelby interview her. 323 00:19:47,254 --> 00:19:48,824 [Gabby speaking] 324 00:19:48,821 --> 00:19:50,491 [Shelby speaking] 325 00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:51,720 [Gabby speaking] 326 00:19:54,394 --> 00:19:55,804 [Shelby speaking] 327 00:19:56,529 --> 00:20:01,199 [Gabby speaking] 328 00:20:05,472 --> 00:20:06,872 [Shelby speaking] 329 00:20:09,409 --> 00:20:10,839 [Dr. Wood] Totally in violation. 330 00:20:10,843 --> 00:20:13,513 You're not supposed to have children question other children, 331 00:20:13,513 --> 00:20:16,383 and you're not supposed to have children pressure other children. 332 00:20:16,383 --> 00:20:19,223 [Gabby speaking] 333 00:20:19,819 --> 00:20:22,719 [Shelby speaking] 334 00:20:22,722 --> 00:20:23,692 [Gabby speaking] 335 00:20:28,895 --> 00:20:30,095 Margie Cantrell 336 00:20:30,096 --> 00:20:32,566 and Ranger Philip Kemp 337 00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:36,095 violated just about every rule in the book 338 00:20:36,102 --> 00:20:38,202 for good interviewing of children. 339 00:20:38,871 --> 00:20:40,571 [Margie speaking] 340 00:20:48,615 --> 00:20:49,845 [Ranger Kemp speaking] 341 00:20:49,849 --> 00:20:50,879 [Margie speaking] 342 00:20:50,883 --> 00:20:51,883 [Ranger Kemp speaking] 343 00:20:51,884 --> 00:20:53,754 [Margie speaking] 344 00:20:57,657 --> 00:20:59,357 [Dr. Wood] It was crystal clear 345 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,829 that the children were subjected to very intense pressure and 346 00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:07,670 suggestive questioning by Ranger Kemp and Margie Cantrell. 347 00:21:07,667 --> 00:21:11,397 [Gabby speaking] 348 00:21:11,904 --> 00:21:15,384 [Margie speaking] 349 00:21:15,375 --> 00:21:19,475 [Melinda] It was Margie Cantrell telling them 350 00:21:19,479 --> 00:21:20,849 that these things happened. 351 00:21:20,847 --> 00:21:23,817 So it's like, if you tell the kid there's a Santa Claus and 352 00:21:23,816 --> 00:21:26,446 and if you're not good, Santa Claus won't bring you anything 353 00:21:26,453 --> 00:21:30,193 and you're putting that belief in that child's head. 354 00:21:30,189 --> 00:21:32,989 Then you could put the bad beliefs in there too. 355 00:21:32,992 --> 00:21:35,532 [Hunter] None of this stuff actually ever happened. 356 00:21:35,528 --> 00:21:38,198 We were manipulated in to believing it. 357 00:21:41,434 --> 00:21:44,644 When I finally realized the sex scandal never happened 358 00:21:44,637 --> 00:21:48,407 and she knew it never happened I didn't understand why 359 00:21:48,408 --> 00:21:54,078 she forced a child into telling you something that didn't happen. 360 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,220 [Margie speaking] 361 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,790 We learned much later 362 00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:04,889 the reason she's doing this 363 00:22:04,891 --> 00:22:07,991 is because the worse the child is 364 00:22:07,994 --> 00:22:10,534 then the more the foster parents pay. 365 00:22:12,399 --> 00:22:16,499 And so, Margie started saying that the children had told her 366 00:22:16,503 --> 00:22:18,003 that they were sexually abused. 367 00:22:19,539 --> 00:22:22,409 [Gabby] Margie Cantrell got a lot of money 368 00:22:22,409 --> 00:22:24,109 for Shelby, Hunter and Carly. 369 00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:25,950 The more messed up they were 370 00:22:25,945 --> 00:22:28,515 the more money she got for taking care of them. 371 00:22:29,215 --> 00:22:30,715 I think it's horrific. 372 00:22:32,151 --> 00:22:35,421 [Hunter] She was creating this horrible backstory for us 373 00:22:35,422 --> 00:22:38,162 so that she could get paid. 374 00:22:38,157 --> 00:22:41,087 Margie just needed the money. She wanted the money. 375 00:22:41,093 --> 00:22:44,463 [Jenna] She would brag, "Oh yeah. 376 00:22:44,464 --> 00:22:47,974 John, John, now if we say this about this kid, 377 00:22:47,967 --> 00:22:50,667 then, you know we can get $1,500 for that kid." 378 00:22:51,203 --> 00:22:52,943 So everybody, 379 00:22:52,939 --> 00:22:55,069 even if they didn't have issues, 380 00:22:55,842 --> 00:22:57,782 they were going to "have issues" 381 00:22:57,777 --> 00:22:59,877 when they got to the Cantrell's house. 382 00:23:01,548 --> 00:23:04,248 [Dr. Wood] From an economic point of view, 383 00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:07,950 if she has these three foster children staying with her, 384 00:23:07,954 --> 00:23:10,464 they typically will be returned to their parents. 385 00:23:10,457 --> 00:23:12,627 But if the parents are convicted 386 00:23:12,625 --> 00:23:14,525 and they're put into jail, 387 00:23:14,527 --> 00:23:16,457 then the children are not going to be returned to those parents 388 00:23:16,463 --> 00:23:22,203 and they become a steady, reliable source of income. 389 00:23:22,201 --> 00:23:26,241 [Melinda] That's how we learned that each one of these children they got, 390 00:23:26,238 --> 00:23:28,208 every single child, 391 00:23:28,207 --> 00:23:31,977 their level escalated, so that they made more money. 392 00:23:35,114 --> 00:23:36,584 [woman speaking] 393 00:23:42,288 --> 00:23:43,488 Yes, I was. 394 00:23:43,490 --> 00:23:45,090 I heard 395 00:23:45,091 --> 00:23:49,501 through one of the articles that it was 3000, 396 00:23:49,496 --> 00:23:52,096 maybe like 700 per child. 397 00:23:52,699 --> 00:23:54,399 I wish. 398 00:23:54,501 --> 00:23:57,801 But no, never, ever, ever was that true. 399 00:23:58,805 --> 00:24:01,305 You're never paid 400 00:24:01,307 --> 00:24:03,307 to take care of these children. 401 00:24:03,309 --> 00:24:07,079 You have to put the money out first, support them. 402 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:11,179 It's a reimbursement plan that the state has. 403 00:24:11,183 --> 00:24:14,723 And as one would come in 404 00:24:14,721 --> 00:24:19,031 that might have been a fire starter, 405 00:24:19,025 --> 00:24:24,755 um poke the eyes out of cats, rip their limbs off, 406 00:24:24,764 --> 00:24:30,544 they would definitely require about $1,400 a month 407 00:24:30,537 --> 00:24:32,097 or something like that. 408 00:24:32,104 --> 00:24:37,544 That would be much more but that's a 24-hour type child. 409 00:24:40,246 --> 00:24:42,406 [Thad] Margie is a master actor. 410 00:24:42,414 --> 00:24:46,424 She's totally alive when she gets to play hero to the jury. 411 00:24:46,418 --> 00:24:49,388 She's totally alive running around the countryside 412 00:24:49,388 --> 00:24:52,688 talking to whatever law enforcement agent is foolish enough to listen to her 413 00:24:52,692 --> 00:24:55,562 about how these poor kids have been traumatized 414 00:24:55,562 --> 00:24:57,102 and damaged by all these evil people, 415 00:24:57,096 --> 00:24:58,396 but I'm here to save them. 416 00:24:59,231 --> 00:25:01,101 But it's actually just a con. 417 00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:02,370 It's just a money scam. 418 00:25:03,903 --> 00:25:06,473 [Margie] I did my job. I did what I was supposed to do. 419 00:25:06,573 --> 00:25:08,373 And that's where my part ended. 420 00:25:08,374 --> 00:25:12,144 Even though people can hate me and try to blame things on me, 421 00:25:12,144 --> 00:25:14,684 I did not know the inner workings of this case, 422 00:25:14,681 --> 00:25:16,381 nor the people, nor anything, 423 00:25:16,382 --> 00:25:17,622 and then you start hearing 424 00:25:17,617 --> 00:25:19,347 well you made it all up Margie, 425 00:25:19,351 --> 00:25:20,821 you made this whole thing up. 426 00:25:20,820 --> 00:25:22,790 And now I'm on trial. 427 00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:25,959 But, where's the kids in the mix? 428 00:25:25,958 --> 00:25:29,358 Listen to them. Maybe talk to them more. 429 00:25:29,361 --> 00:25:32,971 Maybe another forensic... I don't know. 430 00:25:32,965 --> 00:25:35,895 But somewhere lies the truth. 431 00:25:37,604 --> 00:25:39,244 [woman speaking] 432 00:25:43,209 --> 00:25:46,209 [Margie] After everything I've been through and everything I've seen, 433 00:25:46,212 --> 00:25:48,182 I don't think they had a choice. 434 00:25:49,048 --> 00:25:51,478 But Shelby says this is her truth 435 00:25:51,483 --> 00:25:53,623 and she stands by it to this day, 436 00:25:55,254 --> 00:25:57,724 and that's the end of her story. 437 00:26:06,032 --> 00:26:07,802 [man speaking] 438 00:26:11,037 --> 00:26:13,407 I probably couldn't say anything to her. 439 00:26:13,405 --> 00:26:15,535 I would... I would probably just leave. 440 00:26:18,811 --> 00:26:21,051 [door squeaking] 441 00:26:24,350 --> 00:26:26,720 [Hunter] They basically took my childhood from me. 442 00:26:28,054 --> 00:26:30,294 They did steal my memories. 443 00:26:33,392 --> 00:26:36,562 With everything that happened, I never thought I'd ever see my mom again. 444 00:26:38,064 --> 00:26:41,434 I can imagine it hurt a lot 445 00:26:41,433 --> 00:26:44,803 to have your children testify against you, 446 00:26:44,804 --> 00:26:47,144 and put you in prison for something you didn't do. 447 00:26:47,139 --> 00:26:50,079 And knowing that they were manipulated into doing it. 448 00:26:51,077 --> 00:26:52,207 It must have been hard. 449 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,920 [Hunter quoting prosecutor and himself] 450 00:27:09,762 --> 00:27:16,142 "The record will reflect Hunter pointed to and identified the defendant." 451 00:27:16,135 --> 00:27:19,265 [Shauntel] Having my son testify against me broke my heart. 452 00:27:20,406 --> 00:27:21,606 It broke my spirit. 453 00:27:23,175 --> 00:27:25,405 It broke my spirit for all the kids. 454 00:27:26,178 --> 00:27:28,148 [man speaking] 455 00:27:28,147 --> 00:27:30,177 There was no reason to forgive him. 456 00:27:31,517 --> 00:27:33,187 I've never blamed my children. 457 00:27:36,122 --> 00:27:37,892 From day one, I've known that it wasn't... 458 00:27:37,890 --> 00:27:39,630 it had nothing to do with the kids. 459 00:27:43,595 --> 00:27:46,265 When we were reunited after all these years 460 00:27:46,265 --> 00:27:48,565 my mom was just so happy to see me, 461 00:27:48,567 --> 00:27:51,967 she... she couldn't control her feelings seeing me, 462 00:27:51,971 --> 00:27:54,641 I mean she busted into tears. 463 00:27:54,741 --> 00:27:56,881 She was hugging me. She wouldn't let me go or anything. 464 00:27:58,610 --> 00:28:01,080 [Shauntel] I didn't think that I deserved 465 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,750 the chance to... to be his mom. 466 00:28:04,751 --> 00:28:07,851 I couldn't believe that he even wanted to be around me. 467 00:28:07,854 --> 00:28:10,394 Because they wouldn't have been taken from me 468 00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:13,759 if I hadn't started doing drugs in 2003. 469 00:28:14,526 --> 00:28:15,926 It was my fault. 470 00:28:17,596 --> 00:28:19,626 It's always been my fault. 471 00:28:20,933 --> 00:28:22,673 After I got out of prison, 472 00:28:22,769 --> 00:28:25,569 I would have major anxiety attacks. 473 00:28:25,571 --> 00:28:28,111 I couldn't handle it, I couldn't get a job. 474 00:28:29,308 --> 00:28:31,578 But Jamie held my hand and 475 00:28:32,444 --> 00:28:36,084 taught me how to live again. 476 00:28:36,082 --> 00:28:38,892 My children haven't forgiven me completely. 477 00:28:38,885 --> 00:28:40,415 But I have. 478 00:28:40,419 --> 00:28:42,089 and I had to forgive myself 479 00:28:42,088 --> 00:28:46,788 because I couldn't be a mom to them without forgiving myself. 480 00:28:58,704 --> 00:29:00,274 [Gabby] After I had recanted, 481 00:29:00,272 --> 00:29:02,812 the reuniting with my mom happened. 482 00:29:02,809 --> 00:29:05,709 It was really emotional. Uh, she didn't know I was coming. 483 00:29:06,378 --> 00:29:07,978 I remember she was... 484 00:29:09,148 --> 00:29:11,518 she was watering some plants out, 485 00:29:12,684 --> 00:29:15,324 uh, by the porch area that they had. 486 00:29:18,390 --> 00:29:21,390 [Shelia] This truck pulls up. It was Jimmy in the... 487 00:29:23,062 --> 00:29:26,602 didn't know who the hell that was in the passenger seat. 488 00:29:26,598 --> 00:29:29,668 Then they both got out of the truck. 489 00:29:32,071 --> 00:29:34,071 And I finally realized... 490 00:29:34,740 --> 00:29:36,180 who she was. 491 00:29:40,046 --> 00:29:42,916 I dropped my water hose and 492 00:29:44,083 --> 00:29:46,493 I grabbed that child up so fast 493 00:29:46,485 --> 00:29:49,085 and so hard and I hugged her so long. 494 00:29:52,859 --> 00:29:54,959 I didn't want to let her go 495 00:29:54,961 --> 00:29:57,101 and I didn't want her to go away. 496 00:30:00,099 --> 00:30:02,099 Look how cute you were. 497 00:30:04,403 --> 00:30:06,513 Not that you're not cute now. You're adorable. 498 00:30:06,505 --> 00:30:09,335 [Gabby] She was like, "I can either be your best friend, 499 00:30:09,341 --> 00:30:13,381 or I can step back into the role of your mother, it's up to you." 500 00:30:13,379 --> 00:30:16,079 And I was, you know, finally like, "I, 501 00:30:16,082 --> 00:30:18,222 I want you to be my mom again." 502 00:30:18,217 --> 00:30:20,717 [Shelia] That's the picture I had. 503 00:30:20,719 --> 00:30:23,119 That's the picture I kissed every night. 504 00:30:23,589 --> 00:30:25,119 And I talked to. 505 00:30:33,432 --> 00:30:35,272 [Jimmy] I wrote this when I was in prison. 506 00:30:37,136 --> 00:30:41,666 And I was definitely depressed, 507 00:30:41,673 --> 00:30:44,243 I mean, I was giving up hope. 508 00:30:44,243 --> 00:30:49,053 I was laying in my bunk asleep, and I had this dream. 509 00:30:49,048 --> 00:30:52,418 And I got up immediately after the dream stopped, and I wrote it. 510 00:30:57,823 --> 00:31:01,393 "As I sit and think about my beautiful Gabby, 511 00:31:01,393 --> 00:31:05,663 how all it was is now nothing more than memories, 512 00:31:05,664 --> 00:31:09,244 I look outside and watch an angel fall from the sky. 513 00:31:12,238 --> 00:31:16,938 I look at her with a smile, although no words are said, 514 00:31:16,943 --> 00:31:19,713 she grabs my face and breaks down instead. 515 00:31:22,381 --> 00:31:24,651 I ask, 'What's the matter?' 516 00:31:24,650 --> 00:31:27,220 as I wipe her tears away, 517 00:31:27,219 --> 00:31:30,759 she leans in closer and she had this to say." 518 00:31:32,724 --> 00:31:34,694 "Love life and keep it simple, 519 00:31:34,693 --> 00:31:37,033 but most of all, keep your heart open, 520 00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:38,259 [sniffles] 521 00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,070 because she loves you and still needs you. 522 00:31:45,404 --> 00:31:47,274 My angel closed her eyes, 523 00:31:48,174 --> 00:31:49,984 and her body went limp 524 00:31:51,710 --> 00:31:54,480 as her spirit ascended back to heaven. 525 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,580 I just sat there and cried because I knew what she meant... 526 00:31:57,984 --> 00:31:59,024 Gabby." 527 00:32:03,089 --> 00:32:04,359 You okay? 528 00:32:07,126 --> 00:32:09,356 It makes me cry every time I read it. 529 00:32:13,365 --> 00:32:16,365 I mean, I was to the point where I was ready just to off myself. 530 00:32:18,104 --> 00:32:19,544 That's how depressed I was. 531 00:32:23,375 --> 00:32:25,775 This right here kept me alive. 532 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,410 The place where it all supposedly began. 533 00:33:13,159 --> 00:33:14,889 How could such an innocent building 534 00:33:14,893 --> 00:33:17,103 be so damn evil for me? 535 00:33:17,096 --> 00:33:18,256 I mean... 536 00:33:19,231 --> 00:33:20,971 this is where it started. 537 00:33:22,101 --> 00:33:24,241 It's where the lies came from. 538 00:33:25,671 --> 00:33:28,711 and I really don't like being here. 539 00:33:28,707 --> 00:33:30,377 If my little old arms could do it, 540 00:33:30,376 --> 00:33:32,976 I'd take every damn brick out of this bitch. 541 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:37,220 [Shauntel] I didn't know it existed. 542 00:33:37,216 --> 00:33:39,486 How did my kids know what the inside of it looked like? 543 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,720 Because I don't. 544 00:33:42,721 --> 00:33:45,291 But ask my two oldest kids 545 00:33:45,291 --> 00:33:47,331 and they can tell you what it looks like. 546 00:33:47,326 --> 00:33:49,826 That woman walked my kids through this building. 547 00:33:58,337 --> 00:33:59,607 [door closes] 548 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,280 [Hunter] Margie brought me to this building the first time I was here. 549 00:34:09,248 --> 00:34:11,018 We drove up one day, 550 00:34:11,117 --> 00:34:13,217 Margie talking about wanting to buy the place 551 00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:16,389 and I was like 8 years old. 552 00:34:18,957 --> 00:34:20,127 It was creepy. 553 00:34:20,892 --> 00:34:23,262 And, uh, I remember stopping 554 00:34:23,262 --> 00:34:25,432 and seeing a basketball in the back. 555 00:34:25,431 --> 00:34:28,201 And, uh, I can't remember what I said about it, 556 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,270 but I think I wanted the basketball 557 00:34:30,269 --> 00:34:32,269 so I think Margie just kind of took that 558 00:34:32,271 --> 00:34:34,341 and kind twisted that, 559 00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:37,540 you know, trying to make it seem like we had been here before 560 00:34:37,543 --> 00:34:38,943 and that was my basketball. 561 00:34:42,781 --> 00:34:45,181 As far as she's talking about memories, 562 00:34:45,184 --> 00:34:47,454 I don't know if Shelby maybe said something, 563 00:34:47,453 --> 00:34:50,493 but I had no memory of the place at all. 564 00:34:52,624 --> 00:34:58,704 I've never been in here with any family member ever, 565 00:34:58,697 --> 00:35:01,667 um, not even in the building or on the property. 566 00:35:20,419 --> 00:35:22,019 [dog barking] 567 00:35:27,859 --> 00:35:30,029 [Carly] My mother bought me a house. 568 00:35:30,028 --> 00:35:32,228 It's a mobile home right across the street from her 569 00:35:32,231 --> 00:35:33,571 with two lots, 570 00:35:35,201 --> 00:35:36,741 so if anything happens, 571 00:35:37,869 --> 00:35:39,039 I'm right there. 572 00:35:40,206 --> 00:35:44,706 In a year or so, I'm hoping to have me and my mother 573 00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:48,310 and my grandmother all right there in the same vicinity, 574 00:35:48,314 --> 00:35:49,784 if not side by side. 575 00:35:52,751 --> 00:35:55,251 [Hunter] I hope to go back and finish school 576 00:35:55,254 --> 00:35:56,924 and get some stability 577 00:35:57,756 --> 00:35:59,056 is really what I hope. 578 00:35:59,057 --> 00:36:00,587 In 10 years it would be nice 579 00:36:00,592 --> 00:36:03,432 to have a family of my own. 580 00:36:03,429 --> 00:36:06,099 [Shauntel] There you go. There you go, Carly. 581 00:36:09,368 --> 00:36:11,138 [Hunter] I would like to see myself 582 00:36:11,237 --> 00:36:13,807 closer to the family I have right now. 583 00:36:17,876 --> 00:36:20,576 I constantly feel guilt about what happened. 584 00:36:20,579 --> 00:36:24,619 I do feel like if I'd have stuck with my answer "no" in the beginning, 585 00:36:24,616 --> 00:36:26,816 that it had never happened, 586 00:36:26,818 --> 00:36:30,258 um, I feel like none of this would have ever happened. 587 00:36:33,859 --> 00:36:37,129 [Gabby] The fallout is devastating and it still affects us. 588 00:36:39,064 --> 00:36:42,634 This is something that we have to live with for the rest of our lives. 589 00:36:44,069 --> 00:36:46,269 Justice for my parents 590 00:36:46,272 --> 00:36:49,542 would be their names cleared, 591 00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:53,381 it taken off of their record, because that felony is still on their record. 592 00:36:53,379 --> 00:36:56,649 Justice for Margie would be seeing her behind bars. 593 00:36:59,751 --> 00:37:01,521 [Shelia] This one woman 594 00:37:03,054 --> 00:37:04,894 hated so much 595 00:37:05,591 --> 00:37:08,561 that she destroyed us. 596 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,400 She was the rich woman. 597 00:37:10,396 --> 00:37:13,126 They're going to believe her over the poor people. 598 00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:18,300 Especially poor people that have had 599 00:37:18,970 --> 00:37:21,070 poor people problems. 600 00:37:21,072 --> 00:37:23,882 You could tell by the newspaper clippings 601 00:37:23,875 --> 00:37:27,305 and everything that 602 00:37:27,313 --> 00:37:31,783 society thought that, because we were poor, we were indecent, 603 00:37:32,318 --> 00:37:34,488 immoral, dirty. 604 00:37:35,153 --> 00:37:37,663 [man speaking] 605 00:37:43,462 --> 00:37:45,132 I don't trust anybody. 606 00:37:48,133 --> 00:37:51,643 My life experiences are really negative toward the world. 607 00:37:52,638 --> 00:37:55,638 People are liars and they're mean. 608 00:38:03,682 --> 00:38:05,652 [Jimmy] We were innocent. 609 00:38:05,651 --> 00:38:08,221 Our lives were turned upside down. 610 00:38:08,219 --> 00:38:10,419 It cost me four years of my freedom, 611 00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:14,130 the loss of my daughter. 612 00:38:14,125 --> 00:38:16,395 I wasn't there as a father. 613 00:38:19,498 --> 00:38:22,228 You know it makes me sad the fact that 614 00:38:23,402 --> 00:38:24,702 I wasn't there. 615 00:38:27,706 --> 00:38:30,136 I didn't get to raise my daughter. 616 00:38:30,141 --> 00:38:32,041 I will never get those years back. 617 00:38:44,723 --> 00:38:47,033 [Mike] After those guys got out, 618 00:38:47,025 --> 00:38:49,755 I would still get letters from Dennis Pittman, 619 00:38:49,761 --> 00:38:53,701 and basically saying, "Look, all these other people are out, what about me?" 620 00:38:53,699 --> 00:38:57,439 And he would always sign his letters, 621 00:38:57,436 --> 00:38:59,806 "Dennis Pittman, the innocent man." 622 00:39:00,739 --> 00:39:02,509 And... 623 00:39:02,508 --> 00:39:05,508 he just got caught up in Smith County justice. 624 00:39:05,511 --> 00:39:07,611 We all knew he should be free, 625 00:39:07,613 --> 00:39:10,853 but the wheels of the criminal justice system turn really slowly. 626 00:39:12,117 --> 00:39:13,847 So, every year went on, and it was like, 627 00:39:13,852 --> 00:39:15,952 of course this guy's gonna get out eventually. 628 00:39:15,954 --> 00:39:17,124 [buzzes] 629 00:39:41,312 --> 00:39:46,052 [Jason] I would check to see where he was in the parole review. 630 00:39:46,051 --> 00:39:48,721 Because Dennis was convicted of an offense 631 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,520 that allowed him to be parole eligible 632 00:39:51,523 --> 00:39:53,893 with less than half time served. 633 00:39:53,892 --> 00:39:58,502 So I would periodically check just to see and I happened to 634 00:39:58,497 --> 00:40:00,297 look it up and see that 635 00:40:00,298 --> 00:40:02,868 it didn't show he was in TC any longer, 636 00:40:03,502 --> 00:40:06,372 and so I text Melinda 637 00:40:06,371 --> 00:40:10,241 and I said, "Dennis might've made parole." 638 00:40:10,241 --> 00:40:13,141 And, you know, she responded back 639 00:40:13,144 --> 00:40:15,014 "Or he died," 640 00:40:15,013 --> 00:40:16,853 which I'd never even considered. 641 00:40:16,848 --> 00:40:18,478 And then we started looking into it and 642 00:40:18,484 --> 00:40:21,354 of course found out that he had indeed passed away. 643 00:40:26,357 --> 00:40:28,627 [Mike] He died of COVID complications. 644 00:40:29,294 --> 00:40:31,034 And that was that. 645 00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:33,230 So the last innocent man... 646 00:40:33,965 --> 00:40:35,065 was dead. 647 00:40:41,072 --> 00:40:42,912 [man speaking] 648 00:40:44,375 --> 00:40:46,075 - No. - [man speaking] 649 00:40:46,978 --> 00:40:48,308 He did? 650 00:40:49,548 --> 00:40:52,048 What? I did not know that. 651 00:40:55,086 --> 00:40:58,086 What? Oh, my gosh. Ugh. 652 00:40:58,089 --> 00:40:59,729 Well, now I feel really bad. 653 00:41:01,426 --> 00:41:02,786 Yeah, I didn't know. 654 00:41:03,729 --> 00:41:06,199 His life now is defined by this. 655 00:41:06,665 --> 00:41:08,165 You know, he died 656 00:41:08,166 --> 00:41:11,366 without ever having a chance to tell his story 657 00:41:11,369 --> 00:41:13,269 and for people to believe him. 658 00:41:13,271 --> 00:41:16,711 And so imagine how lonely and isolating it must have felt. 659 00:41:16,708 --> 00:41:19,978 It's not about pride and arrogance and winning cases. 660 00:41:19,978 --> 00:41:23,148 It's real lives that were affected and impacted. 661 00:41:23,148 --> 00:41:25,348 We all had a responsibility. 662 00:41:25,350 --> 00:41:27,020 We have failed him in many ways. 663 00:41:29,555 --> 00:41:32,685 [Mike] It was the final tragedy in this story. 664 00:41:32,691 --> 00:41:36,331 And you can trace every single terrible event back to two people. 665 00:41:37,028 --> 00:41:39,798 Margie and John Cantrell. 666 00:41:39,798 --> 00:41:42,198 They were never held accountable. 667 00:41:44,435 --> 00:41:48,705 There were various people talking about ways they could go after them 668 00:41:48,707 --> 00:41:50,837 with some kind of fraud charges. 669 00:41:50,842 --> 00:41:52,282 You know, I think, ultimately, 670 00:41:52,844 --> 00:41:54,854 the fact that 671 00:41:54,846 --> 00:41:57,976 we were dealing with a bunch of people who lived in trailers, 672 00:41:57,983 --> 00:42:00,023 a bunch of people who didn't have any money. 673 00:42:00,018 --> 00:42:01,718 I mean, ultimately, I think people just didn't give a [bleep]. 674 00:42:03,154 --> 00:42:05,894 She got away with it. And what does she do? 675 00:42:05,891 --> 00:42:07,331 She goes back to California 676 00:42:07,325 --> 00:42:09,185 and scuddles back into her hole. 677 00:42:17,936 --> 00:42:19,466 [Margie] Life is good. 678 00:42:19,470 --> 00:42:22,040 I've been swimming a lot. 679 00:42:22,941 --> 00:42:25,911 And I take care of my husband. 680 00:42:25,911 --> 00:42:29,921 He has PTSD and some problems. 681 00:42:29,915 --> 00:42:32,675 And we work in the backyard. 682 00:42:33,318 --> 00:42:35,688 Our backyard is gorgeous 683 00:42:35,687 --> 00:42:37,657 and I have, 684 00:42:37,656 --> 00:42:41,286 oh, so many grandkids surrounding me, 685 00:42:41,292 --> 00:42:43,832 and grandma's very involved in what they're doing. 686 00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:45,529 And, um... 687 00:42:46,164 --> 00:42:48,504 they make me laugh 688 00:42:48,499 --> 00:42:51,769 and they're coming into those teenage years so it really makes me laugh 689 00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:53,640 because I get to send them home. 690 00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:56,469 But it's good. Life is... is good. 691 00:42:57,709 --> 00:42:59,309 [man speaking] 692 00:43:01,246 --> 00:43:05,546 I have regrets at walking away from my home 693 00:43:05,651 --> 00:43:07,551 and our dreams. 694 00:43:09,054 --> 00:43:12,064 But we have new dreams and they're pretty awesome.