1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:06,048 --> 00:00:08,300 [indistinct chatter] 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 4 00:00:10,677 --> 00:00:14,556 MORGAN OLIVIA ROSE: Before, God was a distant, unseen character. 5 00:00:18,477 --> 00:00:21,480 Through Christianity, God was made man. 6 00:00:24,024 --> 00:00:27,694 It is no surprise that 2,000 years later, 7 00:00:27,694 --> 00:00:32,241 after years of worshiping monarchs and majesties, 8 00:00:33,367 --> 00:00:38,580 we now worship the celebrity, the American God. 9 00:00:38,580 --> 00:00:42,042 ♪ Take Me Out by Franz Ferdinand playing ♪ 10 00:00:52,344 --> 00:00:54,805 Our fair island of Manhattan has played host 11 00:00:54,805 --> 00:00:57,474 to some glamorous women and their husbands, 12 00:00:57,975 --> 00:01:00,352 titans of American industry, 13 00:01:00,352 --> 00:01:02,938 founders of standard oil, 14 00:01:02,938 --> 00:01:04,940 builders of railroads, 15 00:01:05,399 --> 00:01:09,778 fathers of finance, shipping, and steel. 16 00:01:10,737 --> 00:01:15,909 In the past, these heiresses operated behind a gilded curtain, 17 00:01:15,909 --> 00:01:18,579 but today's socialites transform themselves 18 00:01:18,579 --> 00:01:20,622 into idols to be worshiped, 19 00:01:21,623 --> 00:01:24,209 images to be consumed. 20 00:01:24,793 --> 00:01:27,087 This is American Divinity. 21 00:01:27,254 --> 00:01:29,631 ♪ Take Me Out continues ♪ 22 00:01:37,890 --> 00:01:39,892 ♪ I say, don't you know ♪ 23 00:01:40,184 --> 00:01:42,144 ♪ You say you don't know ♪ 24 00:01:42,144 --> 00:01:43,437 ♪ I say ♪ 25 00:01:45,606 --> 00:01:47,024 ♪ Take me out ♪ 26 00:01:47,024 --> 00:01:49,193 ♪ I say you don't show ♪ 27 00:01:49,193 --> 00:01:51,195 ♪ Don't move, time is slow ♪ 28 00:01:51,570 --> 00:01:52,988 ♪ I say ♪ 29 00:01:54,698 --> 00:01:56,033 ♪ Take me out ♪ 30 00:01:56,033 --> 00:01:57,868 ♪ 31 00:01:58,035 --> 00:02:01,788 Birthright guarantees access to their world. 32 00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:06,793 If you spin the right story, they might let you in the door. 33 00:02:10,464 --> 00:02:11,882 But at what cost? 34 00:02:12,883 --> 00:02:16,553 ♪ 35 00:02:28,899 --> 00:02:31,818 I think the number one thing that an aspiring socialite has to do 36 00:02:31,818 --> 00:02:32,986 is lose weight. 37 00:02:33,570 --> 00:02:37,824 A girl who can't fit into a sample size is basically no good to a designer. 38 00:02:37,824 --> 00:02:40,202 Hire a publicist, even if it bankrupts your daddy. 39 00:02:40,202 --> 00:02:43,163 He'll make more money next year, but your fame will last forever. 40 00:02:43,163 --> 00:02:43,997 [static] 41 00:02:43,997 --> 00:02:46,416 How to break into New York Society 101. 42 00:02:48,627 --> 00:02:51,171 The very first step is that you need to have money, 43 00:02:51,171 --> 00:02:53,465 and it's a very good thing to give some of that money away 44 00:02:53,465 --> 00:02:54,591 to the right committees. 45 00:02:55,133 --> 00:02:58,971 The history of social aspiration in New York City, in modern times, 46 00:02:58,971 --> 00:03:01,431 can probably be traced back to the 1890s, 47 00:03:01,431 --> 00:03:02,891 the so-called Gilded Age. 48 00:03:02,891 --> 00:03:03,642 [static] 49 00:03:04,601 --> 00:03:05,811 That was a moment when 50 00:03:05,811 --> 00:03:08,564 the great industrial fortunes were being created. 51 00:03:08,564 --> 00:03:11,066 When steel barons and the railroad barons 52 00:03:11,066 --> 00:03:13,318 were some of the richest people in the United States. 53 00:03:13,318 --> 00:03:16,280 Finance was coming into its own as a huge source of wealth. 54 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,701 Names like Carnegies, Mellon, Vanderbilt, Schermerhorn, Astor 55 00:03:20,701 --> 00:03:22,536 were the great families of that time. 56 00:03:22,536 --> 00:03:23,328 [static] 57 00:03:24,413 --> 00:03:28,417 Historically, the American social structure detested publicity 58 00:03:28,417 --> 00:03:30,294 and in order to be of social rank, 59 00:03:30,294 --> 00:03:33,714 you looked down on that kind of vulgar self-aggrandizement. 60 00:03:33,714 --> 00:03:34,840 There's the famous expression 61 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,426 that you should only have your name in the papers three times, 62 00:03:37,426 --> 00:03:39,887 when you're born, when you're married, and when you die. 63 00:03:40,262 --> 00:03:42,848 And it really started to change in the 1990s 64 00:03:42,848 --> 00:03:45,934 when these younger generations of the big families 65 00:03:45,934 --> 00:03:48,187 began to realize that celebrity could be used 66 00:03:48,187 --> 00:03:49,271 for their own advantages. 67 00:03:49,563 --> 00:03:52,107 They were the Miller sisters, they were the Boardman sisters, 68 00:03:52,107 --> 00:03:53,984 and these were relatively well-behaved young women 69 00:03:53,984 --> 00:03:56,153 who led glamorous lives and they went to nightclubs 70 00:03:56,153 --> 00:03:58,697 and were often in the gossip columns or the social pages. 71 00:03:58,697 --> 00:04:02,826 And then like a double bombshell dropped Paris and Nicky Hilton. 72 00:04:02,826 --> 00:04:04,912 [indistinct excited crowd chatter] 73 00:04:09,499 --> 00:04:12,461 When Paris and Nicky arrived on the red carpet scene, 74 00:04:12,461 --> 00:04:14,129 they were an instant sensation. 75 00:04:14,129 --> 00:04:15,631 - REPORTER: Paris. - What's up? 76 00:04:16,381 --> 00:04:18,008 BEN WIDDICOMBE: The readers couldn't get enough of them. 77 00:04:18,008 --> 00:04:19,968 The gossip columns wanted to know more. 78 00:04:20,719 --> 00:04:22,888 [indistinct chatter] 79 00:04:22,888 --> 00:04:24,223 They loved talking to reporters. 80 00:04:24,223 --> 00:04:26,558 They made themselves available to photographers. 81 00:04:28,852 --> 00:04:30,479 And that made them stars. 82 00:04:30,729 --> 00:04:33,148 PAPARAZZO: Paris, give us a wave, Paris! 83 00:04:33,148 --> 00:04:34,483 You rock, girl. 84 00:04:34,483 --> 00:04:35,984 PATRICK MCMULLAN: I like to say, I mean, 85 00:04:36,693 --> 00:04:39,863 I'm kidding, but I kind of invented the Hilton sisters. 86 00:04:41,907 --> 00:04:44,952 I would see them and I knew their mother, Kathy, very well 87 00:04:44,952 --> 00:04:47,287 from old days and from being around 88 00:04:47,287 --> 00:04:49,164 and she'd say, "Oh, if you see the girls, be nice to them," 89 00:04:49,164 --> 00:04:50,541 'cause they didn't really know anybody. 90 00:04:50,541 --> 00:04:52,084 They didn't really grow up in New York, 91 00:04:53,210 --> 00:04:55,295 so I taught them how to pose. 92 00:04:55,295 --> 00:04:57,840 PAPARAZZO: Paris, to your left! To your left! 93 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:01,718 KELLY CUTRONE: I saw Paris have her first visit with André Leon Talley, 94 00:05:01,718 --> 00:05:04,346 and she stood up on a banquette in a blue dress 95 00:05:04,346 --> 00:05:05,472 and she was like-- 96 00:05:05,472 --> 00:05:07,975 I don't even know who trained her, 97 00:05:07,975 --> 00:05:10,602 but she had every fucking frame completely thought out. 98 00:05:10,602 --> 00:05:14,273 And just in that moment, I realized like everything's gonna change. 99 00:05:14,273 --> 00:05:17,276 [crowd cheering] 100 00:05:17,276 --> 00:05:19,820 LOLA OGUNNAIKE: In the day, I used to be in these club streets 101 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:22,072 and so was Paris Hilton. [laughs] 102 00:05:22,072 --> 00:05:25,492 And so, she was figuring out 103 00:05:25,492 --> 00:05:29,454 how to turn being Paris Hilton into a business. 104 00:05:29,872 --> 00:05:33,292 She wanted to create storylines around her, 105 00:05:33,292 --> 00:05:35,169 so she would have a best friend, 106 00:05:35,169 --> 00:05:36,712 and then she would change the best friend. 107 00:05:36,712 --> 00:05:40,007 She would have a little Chihuahua and then the Chihuahua would disappear. 108 00:05:40,007 --> 00:05:44,887 She was committed to constructing a narrative around her 109 00:05:44,887 --> 00:05:46,722 that would keep people watching. 110 00:05:46,722 --> 00:05:49,349 [indistinct chatter] 111 00:05:49,349 --> 00:05:52,269 All of these girls are Paris Hilton's child, okay? 112 00:05:52,269 --> 00:05:54,188 She laid the blueprint. 113 00:05:54,646 --> 00:05:56,523 BEN: Suddenly, the thing to be 114 00:05:56,523 --> 00:05:59,359 was to be the good-looking daughter of great privilege. 115 00:06:00,110 --> 00:06:03,155 PHOTOGRAPHER 1: Lauren, look [inaudible]. 116 00:06:03,155 --> 00:06:04,740 PHOTOGRAPHER 2: Ivanka! 117 00:06:04,740 --> 00:06:06,533 [indistinct press chatter] 118 00:06:12,581 --> 00:06:14,458 PHOTOGRAPHER 3: Big smile right here, big smile right here. 119 00:06:15,709 --> 00:06:18,212 LOLA: Fabiola Beracasa, she was one. 120 00:06:18,629 --> 00:06:20,339 Baby Olivia Palermo, 121 00:06:20,339 --> 00:06:22,758 she was just coming out of high school back then. 122 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,386 BEN: Another very prominent young woman around this time 123 00:06:26,386 --> 00:06:27,638 was Casey Johnson, 124 00:06:27,638 --> 00:06:30,390 who was an heiress of the Johnson & Johnson fortune. 125 00:06:30,390 --> 00:06:33,352 She was the absolute epitome of a Park Avenue princess 126 00:06:33,352 --> 00:06:35,646 and she was also Paris Hilton's best friend. 127 00:06:35,646 --> 00:06:39,191 PARIS HILTON: I think it's pretty superficial, but at the same time, 128 00:06:39,525 --> 00:06:42,069 our whole group is considered "it girls." 129 00:06:42,069 --> 00:06:44,363 'Cause we're beautiful, cool, and sexy. 130 00:06:44,363 --> 00:06:47,991 Everybody's an "it girl" if you have self-confidence, right? 131 00:06:48,325 --> 00:06:49,368 Don't you agree? 132 00:06:49,910 --> 00:06:51,286 BEN: These were gorgeous, young women 133 00:06:51,286 --> 00:06:52,496 having the time of their lives. 134 00:06:52,496 --> 00:06:55,499 ♪ The Simple Life theme playing ♪ 135 00:06:56,375 --> 00:06:57,459 PERSON: Isn't that Paris Hilton? 136 00:06:57,918 --> 00:07:01,421 BEN: The culture responded with shows like The Simple Life and The City. 137 00:07:01,421 --> 00:07:02,756 NARRATOR: In this city, 138 00:07:02,756 --> 00:07:05,259 there are the downtown girls, like my friend, Erin, 139 00:07:05,259 --> 00:07:07,845 and then there's the uptown crowd, like Olivia. 140 00:07:07,845 --> 00:07:10,639 She's a socialite or as she likes to say, a social. 141 00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:11,974 And then you had Gossip Girl. 142 00:07:11,974 --> 00:07:14,935 GOSSIP GIRL: Hey, Upper East Siders, Gossip Girl here. 143 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:17,604 And I have the biggest news ever. 144 00:07:17,604 --> 00:07:21,233 BEN: Which further glamorized this idea of young, Manhattan privilege 145 00:07:21,233 --> 00:07:23,861 as just the ideal for a young person. 146 00:07:23,861 --> 00:07:26,363 My God, you'll never believe what's on Gossip Girl. 147 00:07:26,363 --> 00:07:28,907 Someone saw Serena getting off a train at Grand Central. 148 00:07:28,907 --> 00:07:31,159 And so, of course, women flocked to the city 149 00:07:31,159 --> 00:07:33,036 and those with means hired publicists, 150 00:07:33,036 --> 00:07:36,290 which is a necessary rung on the social ladder in New York City. 151 00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:40,002 This led to a whole mini-trend of people who wanted to become publicists. 152 00:07:41,044 --> 00:07:43,297 New York Magazine did a very famous cover story 153 00:07:43,297 --> 00:07:44,673 called "Power Girls," 154 00:07:44,673 --> 00:07:46,800 and they were positioned as the most influential 155 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:49,094 and fun, young women in the city. 156 00:07:49,094 --> 00:07:54,141 Publicists were at their all-time, most powerful during that era. 157 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:57,603 The bigger the celebrity you were, the more publicists you had, 158 00:07:57,603 --> 00:08:00,731 and it was this wall that you could not penetrate. 159 00:08:00,731 --> 00:08:03,150 [indistinct chatter] 160 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:05,903 They could make or break careers. 161 00:08:05,903 --> 00:08:10,741 They could create people out of, like, duct tape and paper clips, 162 00:08:10,741 --> 00:08:14,328 and all of a sudden, you've got a star. 163 00:08:14,661 --> 00:08:16,622 PHOTOGRAPHER: Yeah, this way, Amanda, over here. 164 00:08:17,331 --> 00:08:20,000 [indistinct chatter] 165 00:08:22,878 --> 00:08:26,298 MORGAN: We think we can control how we are seen, 166 00:08:26,298 --> 00:08:29,009 who looks at us, and what stories they tell. 167 00:08:29,843 --> 00:08:31,178 But that's a lie. 168 00:08:33,472 --> 00:08:35,807 Beauty and grace can't be for everyone. 169 00:08:36,266 --> 00:08:38,477 They would lose their meaning. 170 00:08:38,852 --> 00:08:40,938 Some of us have to be the other. 171 00:08:41,271 --> 00:08:43,148 That's our role. 172 00:08:43,148 --> 00:08:45,567 [indistinct shouting] 173 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,488 Money might mean freedom, but only for some, 174 00:08:50,197 --> 00:08:51,990 because even though cash is king, 175 00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:55,369 a queen does not control her own destiny. 176 00:08:56,203 --> 00:08:57,120 PAPARAZZO 1: Paris! 177 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,830 I'm not talking with anybody tonight. 178 00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:02,084 PAPARAZZO 2: We don't wanna talk. We just wanna look at you. 179 00:09:02,084 --> 00:09:03,168 [static] 180 00:09:03,168 --> 00:09:05,295 PAPARAZZO 3: Tinsley! Tinsley, look up. 181 00:09:05,295 --> 00:09:06,880 MORGAN: This is Tinsley. 182 00:09:07,464 --> 00:09:10,175 To her, this is success... 183 00:09:11,093 --> 00:09:12,177 PAPARAZZO 3: Tinsley. 184 00:09:12,177 --> 00:09:14,680 MORGAN: ...becoming an object to consume. 185 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:15,973 [static] 186 00:09:15,973 --> 00:09:17,432 ♪ 187 00:09:18,016 --> 00:09:21,854 TV HOST: Sophisticated, stylish, and savvy Tinsley Mortimer 188 00:09:21,854 --> 00:09:26,441 is one of the most visible faces on New York's red-carpet social scene. 189 00:09:26,817 --> 00:09:29,987 BEN: When Tinsley Mortimer arrived on the red carpet scene, 190 00:09:29,987 --> 00:09:33,198 she was one of the most photogenic girls at the time 191 00:09:33,198 --> 00:09:34,157 that anyone had ever seen, 192 00:09:34,157 --> 00:09:36,201 but some people felt that 193 00:09:36,201 --> 00:09:39,746 she wasn't from the right background, shall we say. 194 00:09:39,746 --> 00:09:43,333 She was from the South. She had a more Southern style. 195 00:09:43,333 --> 00:09:46,712 She had that beautiful, you know, Southern debutante charm and smile, 196 00:09:46,712 --> 00:09:50,090 uh, and I think she put the back up of some of the other girls 197 00:09:50,090 --> 00:09:53,427 who were used to, shall we say, a more Yankee Patrician approach. 198 00:09:59,808 --> 00:10:02,311 TINSLEY MORTIMER: I came to New York to actually go to Columbia University, 199 00:10:02,311 --> 00:10:03,854 and I played tennis for them. 200 00:10:03,854 --> 00:10:06,732 And I had come from Lawrenceville, which is a boarding school in New Jersey, 201 00:10:06,732 --> 00:10:08,650 and I was the captain of the tennis team there. 202 00:10:08,650 --> 00:10:12,321 And we had, you know, tea at four and we had, I think, you know, a chef, 203 00:10:12,321 --> 00:10:15,949 and it was all just very over the top, particularly, being at school. 204 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:20,954 At the time, New York felt very thriving, 205 00:10:20,954 --> 00:10:26,084 and it was just this whole crazy world of, you know, all these charity events 206 00:10:26,084 --> 00:10:28,378 and these benefits that were over the top. 207 00:10:28,378 --> 00:10:32,132 And I remember seeing these pretty girls and all these photographers swarmed them, 208 00:10:32,132 --> 00:10:33,926 and they were taking pictures and it just looked like, 209 00:10:33,926 --> 00:10:36,011 "Oh, my God, this is just so fun and glamorous." 210 00:10:36,011 --> 00:10:38,514 [indistinct party chatter] 211 00:10:38,514 --> 00:10:40,516 I just remember seeing that and thinking like, 212 00:10:40,516 --> 00:10:41,517 "Oh, my God, this is fun. 213 00:10:41,517 --> 00:10:43,310 I wanna be part of this. This looks cool." 214 00:10:45,270 --> 00:10:47,356 R. COURI HAY: All my girls that I worked with, 215 00:10:47,356 --> 00:10:49,525 I'm very proud to have worked with all of them, 216 00:10:49,525 --> 00:10:51,652 all really had "it" already. 217 00:10:51,652 --> 00:10:52,945 When you're called an "it girl," 218 00:10:52,945 --> 00:10:56,073 it means you're hot, you're sexy, you're out, you're about, 219 00:10:56,073 --> 00:10:57,866 and usually means you're available. 220 00:10:57,866 --> 00:11:00,827 When I work with clients, I ask, "What is the goal?" 221 00:11:00,827 --> 00:11:04,289 Because when you're a queenmaker, there has to be a goal. 222 00:11:04,289 --> 00:11:06,875 If you don't have a goal and you pay me enough money, 223 00:11:06,875 --> 00:11:07,918 I'll give you one. 224 00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:10,420 When I met Tinsley Mortimer, 225 00:11:10,420 --> 00:11:12,798 we were at a party, at the Guggenheim Museum, 226 00:11:12,798 --> 00:11:14,925 and I remember she was sitting outside and she said, 227 00:11:14,925 --> 00:11:17,678 "Couri, I just wanna be a little socialite." 228 00:11:17,678 --> 00:11:19,471 And I, I kinda-- I made this, like, joke to him. 229 00:11:19,471 --> 00:11:21,765 I was like, "I just wanna be a socialite. 230 00:11:21,765 --> 00:11:23,350 "I just wanna, like, I wanna, you know, 231 00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:25,060 "work on all these different events and charities, 232 00:11:25,060 --> 00:11:27,062 "and I just wanna, like, you know, go to these fun parties 233 00:11:27,062 --> 00:11:28,272 and wear glamorous dresses." 234 00:11:28,272 --> 00:11:30,065 And I just sort of-- I said it like that. 235 00:11:30,065 --> 00:11:31,483 I said, "Okay." 236 00:11:31,483 --> 00:11:32,901 I said, "What are you doing now?" 237 00:11:32,901 --> 00:11:35,779 And she said, "I'm a publicist working for this company." 238 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,157 TINSLEY: After Columbia, I ended up working at Vogue Magazine . 239 00:11:39,157 --> 00:11:40,909 After I left Vogue , 240 00:11:40,909 --> 00:11:43,161 I had also worked for a PR company, Harrison & Shriftman. 241 00:11:43,161 --> 00:11:46,039 I said, "Well, when you quit your job, come see me." 242 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:50,544 Because I wasn't gonna make a authentic, uh, debutante 243 00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:54,882 into a high-society girl of the moment as a publicist. 244 00:11:54,882 --> 00:11:57,801 It just didn't work; didn't, didn't click. 245 00:11:57,801 --> 00:11:59,178 So, she quit her job. 246 00:11:59,178 --> 00:12:02,222 I put her on-- The first committee was the Museum of Natural History. 247 00:12:02,222 --> 00:12:04,349 I was able to, uh, have some more time 248 00:12:04,349 --> 00:12:06,602 and really put my efforts into being philanthropic 249 00:12:06,602 --> 00:12:08,020 and working on these different charities, 250 00:12:08,020 --> 00:12:11,315 and that's when it all just sort of came a part of my world 251 00:12:11,315 --> 00:12:13,233 and the whole thing, so. 252 00:12:13,233 --> 00:12:16,695 [indistinct shouting] 253 00:12:18,238 --> 00:12:20,199 COURI: Tinsley already had it. 254 00:12:20,199 --> 00:12:21,450 She was beautiful. 255 00:12:21,450 --> 00:12:25,746 She was brainy, well-born, a real debutante. 256 00:12:25,746 --> 00:12:28,957 Married Topper Mortimer, Standard Oil heir. 257 00:12:28,957 --> 00:12:33,462 So, it wasn't that difficult to promote Tinsley as an "it girl" 258 00:12:33,462 --> 00:12:34,922 because she really was an "it girl." 259 00:12:36,798 --> 00:12:39,384 It wasn't about her blue blood, which Tinsley had. 260 00:12:39,801 --> 00:12:43,013 It wasn't about her blonde ringlets, which she had. 261 00:12:43,013 --> 00:12:45,516 It wasn't about her pretty, flirty, party dresses, 262 00:12:45,516 --> 00:12:46,808 which she had. 263 00:12:46,808 --> 00:12:49,394 It was how many parties she would go to in a night. 264 00:12:49,603 --> 00:12:50,604 It was that simple. 265 00:12:51,063 --> 00:12:54,483 PHOTOGRAPHER: Yeah, I like that. Good. Very nice. 266 00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:57,027 BEN: There were six parties a night 267 00:12:57,027 --> 00:12:59,196 and there was a red carpet in front of every party. 268 00:12:59,196 --> 00:13:03,200 It's very important that they not be seen in the same dress at, at different events, 269 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,327 even if they're an hour apart, 270 00:13:05,327 --> 00:13:07,871 because the weekly celebrity magazines 271 00:13:07,871 --> 00:13:10,499 would not run two pictures of them in the same dress. 272 00:13:10,499 --> 00:13:14,044 COURI: It's all about being in the right dress at the right time 273 00:13:14,044 --> 00:13:15,254 at the right party 274 00:13:15,254 --> 00:13:16,964 in front of Patrick McMullan. 275 00:13:19,132 --> 00:13:21,176 PATRICK: A big part of that time period 276 00:13:21,718 --> 00:13:24,972 is when people realized the power of image. 277 00:13:24,972 --> 00:13:25,889 It was exciting. 278 00:13:25,889 --> 00:13:28,642 It's exciting to see people looking stylish where you just-- 279 00:13:28,642 --> 00:13:30,310 your eyes, like, go, "Oh, wow." 280 00:13:31,979 --> 00:13:36,525 That power of image can be acquired, but it also can be taught. 281 00:13:36,525 --> 00:13:37,818 You get a stylist 282 00:13:37,818 --> 00:13:39,820 or you get people to help you with how to dress. 283 00:13:39,820 --> 00:13:40,988 It's like anything else. 284 00:13:40,988 --> 00:13:42,531 If you have a garden, you're not gonna just 285 00:13:42,531 --> 00:13:44,157 try to do it all yourself. You get a pro. 286 00:13:44,449 --> 00:13:46,743 COURI: I put her on all the right committees. 287 00:13:46,743 --> 00:13:48,453 She showed up. She took the pictures. 288 00:13:48,745 --> 00:13:52,291 I told her it was more of a silent movie game than anything, 289 00:13:52,291 --> 00:13:54,293 that she really shouldn't talk too much. 290 00:13:54,293 --> 00:13:57,713 And at some point, you know, Tinsley felt her oats. 291 00:13:57,713 --> 00:14:01,508 She was the queen, um, on the cover of The Post twice. 292 00:14:01,508 --> 00:14:05,470 KELLY BRADY: She was the most photographed woman in Manhattan society. 293 00:14:05,470 --> 00:14:07,347 She created a bag line, 294 00:14:07,347 --> 00:14:09,892 then Dior named a lipstick after her. 295 00:14:10,392 --> 00:14:11,977 She was on billboards. 296 00:14:13,353 --> 00:14:16,231 Whenever Tinsley walked into a party, 297 00:14:16,231 --> 00:14:18,609 it was, like, photographers rushing over her. 298 00:14:18,609 --> 00:14:20,694 Flashes, flashes, flashes, flashes, like, 299 00:14:20,694 --> 00:14:22,905 "Tinsley, Tinsley, Fabiola, Fabiola, Tinsley!" 300 00:14:22,905 --> 00:14:25,157 [indistinct shouting] PHOTOGRAPHER: Fabiola! 301 00:14:25,616 --> 00:14:28,076 BEN: Something else that changed during this era 302 00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:30,162 is that downtown and uptown really merged 303 00:14:30,162 --> 00:14:33,373 in a way that they hadn't so much before in New York society. 304 00:14:33,373 --> 00:14:36,793 So, suddenly, all the socials were coming below 14th Street 305 00:14:36,793 --> 00:14:39,379 to places like Beatrice Inn in the West Village. 306 00:14:39,379 --> 00:14:41,298 They were going to the clubs of the meat packing district, 307 00:14:41,298 --> 00:14:42,633 which had newly opened up. 308 00:14:42,633 --> 00:14:45,177 They were going to Bungalow 8 in far west Chelsea. 309 00:14:45,177 --> 00:14:49,014 ♪ 310 00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:51,350 AMY SACCO: All the socialites came through, 311 00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:54,937 my little fashion plates, my fashionistas, my social gals. 312 00:14:54,937 --> 00:14:58,482 Nicky, Paris, Nicole Richie, Casey, 313 00:14:58,482 --> 00:15:00,817 Tinsley, my favorite. 314 00:15:00,817 --> 00:15:04,696 ♪ 315 00:15:04,696 --> 00:15:07,783 TINSLEY: You hear about the old days of Studio 54 and everything. 316 00:15:07,783 --> 00:15:12,329 Bungalow 8 was that for my generation and my world and stuff. 317 00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:14,748 And that was just the coolest place. 318 00:15:14,748 --> 00:15:18,168 It was small and intimate, and all your friends were there. 319 00:15:18,168 --> 00:15:20,671 AMY: I really believe in the cross-cultural, 320 00:15:20,671 --> 00:15:23,006 trans-generational dynamic. 321 00:15:23,006 --> 00:15:27,261 So, we always had models, moguls, rogues, raconteurs, 322 00:15:27,261 --> 00:15:29,471 reprobates, skateboarders 323 00:15:29,471 --> 00:15:32,558 sitting next to, you know, George Clooney or RuPaul. 324 00:15:33,225 --> 00:15:34,726 [inaudible] 325 00:15:35,894 --> 00:15:38,105 VALENTINE UHOVSKI: Bungalow 8 was huge because, you know, 326 00:15:38,105 --> 00:15:43,026 you would have an, a socialite sat three seats away from famous drag queen 327 00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:44,778 to an emerging designer. 328 00:15:44,778 --> 00:15:47,030 And we were just, you know, college students at the time, 329 00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:49,783 and the drinks were too expensive, so we ordered pizza. 330 00:15:49,783 --> 00:15:52,411 Pizza was more cheaper than the drinks at Bungalow 8. 331 00:15:52,411 --> 00:15:55,330 We'd be the only people eating at Bungalow 8. 332 00:15:55,330 --> 00:15:58,083 People were doing blow, and they were hanging out, 333 00:15:58,083 --> 00:15:59,418 and they were makin' the world go round. 334 00:15:59,418 --> 00:16:02,588 And you would see the richest families in the world, 335 00:16:02,588 --> 00:16:06,091 and it would be 12, 1:00 A.M., 2:00 A.M., 4:00 A.M., 336 00:16:06,091 --> 00:16:08,552 and everybody would still be partying. 337 00:16:08,552 --> 00:16:10,554 And I promise you, 338 00:16:10,554 --> 00:16:14,183 deals were done on those dirty coke sex tables. 339 00:16:14,183 --> 00:16:16,476 Remember you could-- I could be, like, super drunk 340 00:16:16,476 --> 00:16:18,353 and then I was starving, and I'd go out 341 00:16:18,353 --> 00:16:20,731 and go get, like, hotdogs, like, on the street 342 00:16:20,731 --> 00:16:21,690 and then come back in. 343 00:16:21,690 --> 00:16:23,233 And sometimes there were photographers out there 344 00:16:23,233 --> 00:16:25,527 and they would, like, get me, like, getting, like, a hotdog. 345 00:16:27,029 --> 00:16:30,240 You know, we just were doing the things that people before us did too. 346 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,950 But the times had changed a little bit 347 00:16:31,950 --> 00:16:34,870 where things were then popping on the internet the next day. 348 00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:37,331 The term "socialite" was a hard word for me, 349 00:16:37,331 --> 00:16:40,667 because I was actually really busy and really working, 350 00:16:40,667 --> 00:16:42,669 and people thought was more frivolous. 351 00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:44,630 And, like, I'm just, like, lunching. 352 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:47,090 "She's going to parties, she's dressing up and she's lunching." 353 00:16:47,090 --> 00:16:48,342 It was not that way. 354 00:16:48,342 --> 00:16:50,719 So, having a lot of press written about you, 355 00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:52,804 and of course, when the blog started to come up, 356 00:16:52,804 --> 00:16:55,682 I didn't love that time, it was difficult. 357 00:16:59,478 --> 00:17:03,524 BEN: When the blogging craze took off, it seemed like the wild west of media. 358 00:17:03,982 --> 00:17:05,192 Suddenly, everyday people 359 00:17:05,192 --> 00:17:07,444 were putting their opinions about famous people 360 00:17:07,444 --> 00:17:08,320 on the internet, 361 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,239 which was a big deal at the time. 362 00:17:10,239 --> 00:17:12,824 And I think the secret to many of the blogs' appeal 363 00:17:12,824 --> 00:17:15,410 is that they were really great way to waste time at work. 364 00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:17,538 You could scroll Perez Hilton for a few minutes, 365 00:17:17,538 --> 00:17:20,165 read some salacious celebrity gossip, see some pictures. 366 00:17:20,165 --> 00:17:22,835 Uh, and people who had cultural foresight 367 00:17:22,835 --> 00:17:24,878 understood that actually was incredibly important 368 00:17:24,878 --> 00:17:26,547 and it was what the younger people were reading. 369 00:17:26,547 --> 00:17:29,383 Suddenly, the publicists were less relevant than they were. 370 00:17:29,383 --> 00:17:32,678 And you could get around the traditional tabloid gossip columns 371 00:17:32,678 --> 00:17:35,514 by going directly to these opinion samurai, 372 00:17:35,514 --> 00:17:38,016 who are self-publishing their own thoughts and their own pictures 373 00:17:38,016 --> 00:17:39,309 on their own platforms. 374 00:17:39,309 --> 00:17:43,146 So, it was really a collision of the old guard and the new guard. 375 00:17:43,146 --> 00:17:46,900 A-And now, print legacy media was dominated by the blogs. 376 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,193 Blogs like Gawker. 377 00:17:49,695 --> 00:17:51,655 KELLY: When the blogs started, 378 00:17:51,655 --> 00:17:55,534 they really started covering these Manhattan society girls, 379 00:17:55,534 --> 00:17:57,452 and it could get a little mean. 380 00:17:58,161 --> 00:18:00,038 PERSON 1: Nice job, whoring yourself out 381 00:18:00,038 --> 00:18:02,416 to a full prone magazine, Tinsley Mortimer. 382 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,170 Oh, and speaking of whoring and whoriness, 383 00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:08,714 the fake nails plus lots of big jewelry thing 384 00:18:08,714 --> 00:18:11,008 is a little prostitutional, no? 385 00:18:12,092 --> 00:18:13,844 EMILY GOULD: When I first started working at Gawker, 386 00:18:13,844 --> 00:18:17,097 there were a lot of industries that were just, like, on the verge 387 00:18:17,097 --> 00:18:20,976 of being completely as extinct as the dinosaurs. 388 00:18:21,393 --> 00:18:22,811 And there I was, 389 00:18:22,811 --> 00:18:26,023 and I just thought that I had gotten so lucky. [laughs] 390 00:18:26,023 --> 00:18:31,403 And that I was gonna, you know, speak truth to power in this job. 391 00:18:34,781 --> 00:18:37,618 There was a lot of money in New York right then, 392 00:18:37,618 --> 00:18:42,122 and it was the fashion culture of, like, obvious status symbols, 393 00:18:42,122 --> 00:18:44,666 giant, giant handbags. 394 00:18:44,666 --> 00:18:46,668 You know, you really wanted a bag 395 00:18:46,668 --> 00:18:49,671 that was, like, as big as your entire body. 396 00:18:49,671 --> 00:18:53,258 But, you know, I was not making very much money at Gawker. 397 00:18:53,634 --> 00:18:58,222 As a contrast, Gawker was so grubby, so gritty. 398 00:18:58,222 --> 00:19:00,224 We worked in a storefront office 399 00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:03,185 and people would wander in off the street all the time 400 00:19:03,185 --> 00:19:05,604 because they thought it was a coffee shop. 401 00:19:05,604 --> 00:19:08,732 So, it was definitely the vibe of 402 00:19:08,732 --> 00:19:14,488 we are going to make fun of anyone who is rich and powerful 403 00:19:14,488 --> 00:19:15,447 because we can, 404 00:19:15,447 --> 00:19:16,949 because that's possible. 405 00:19:17,449 --> 00:19:19,993 PERSON 1: Debutard Tinsley Mortimer's handbag line launch 406 00:19:19,993 --> 00:19:23,664 featured a worst-nightmare tableau of lookalike Tinsleys, 407 00:19:23,664 --> 00:19:26,250 who also presumably have to get their hair curled 408 00:19:26,250 --> 00:19:28,252 before leaving the house. 409 00:19:28,252 --> 00:19:31,463 LOLA: Emily was definitely one of the most powerful voices 410 00:19:31,463 --> 00:19:33,799 in New York media at the time, 411 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:37,469 and you understood that, like, she had the power of the pen. 412 00:19:37,469 --> 00:19:42,516 And that pen could be vicious and scandalous and snarky and mean. 413 00:19:43,892 --> 00:19:46,103 PERSON 1: "Tinsley Mortimer Is Slipping." 414 00:19:46,103 --> 00:19:49,398 Olivia Palermo, your path seems to have cleared. 415 00:19:49,398 --> 00:19:51,650 [indistinct chatter] 416 00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:54,528 BEN: Olivia Palermo was now the really bright spark on the scene 417 00:19:54,528 --> 00:19:55,571 when she emerged. 418 00:19:55,571 --> 00:19:57,239 She was a natural in front of the camera. 419 00:19:57,239 --> 00:19:59,116 Patrick McMullan loves snapping pictures of her. 420 00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,869 She had the right connections. She was from Greenwich. 421 00:20:01,869 --> 00:20:03,370 She went to the right schools. 422 00:20:03,370 --> 00:20:07,374 She didn't necessarily come from the level of wealth, 423 00:20:07,374 --> 00:20:09,126 uh, of many of the other socials. 424 00:20:09,126 --> 00:20:12,880 Uh, and I think for that reason, some people were a little bit wary of her, 425 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,716 that maybe she was trying to break her way into some-someplace she didn't belong. 426 00:20:16,216 --> 00:20:20,804 Another blog that was particularly vicious was Socialite Rank. 427 00:20:20,804 --> 00:20:23,515 And Socialite Rank pitted her against Tinsley Mortimer 428 00:20:23,515 --> 00:20:25,517 as kind of a natural nemesis. 429 00:20:25,517 --> 00:20:28,812 Socialite Rank was an anonymously written blog 430 00:20:28,812 --> 00:20:32,441 devoted to who was up and who was down in the socialite world. 431 00:20:32,441 --> 00:20:37,654 They kept a running tally of the 20 women ranked by their prominence. 432 00:20:37,654 --> 00:20:39,656 When it first came out, 433 00:20:39,656 --> 00:20:42,201 I was ranked number one, 434 00:20:42,201 --> 00:20:46,371 and it was either Lauren Santo Domingo was two, 435 00:20:46,371 --> 00:20:47,998 or Fabiola Beracasa. 436 00:20:47,998 --> 00:20:51,335 Then, I think we happened to be in the Hamptons altogether at that time. 437 00:20:51,335 --> 00:20:53,337 And we just thought it was so funny. We were sort of joking. 438 00:20:53,337 --> 00:20:55,088 I was like, "I'm number one," and be like, "Whatever." 439 00:20:55,088 --> 00:20:56,715 You know, just, like, it's a joke. 440 00:20:56,715 --> 00:21:00,552 But, um-- And we thought it was fun for about half a second 441 00:21:00,552 --> 00:21:03,472 until it just became not fun. 442 00:21:03,472 --> 00:21:07,893 ♪ 443 00:21:07,893 --> 00:21:11,146 BEN: Even when we didn't know who was behind Socialite Rank, 444 00:21:11,146 --> 00:21:13,774 Olga and Valentine were on the scene 445 00:21:13,774 --> 00:21:17,736 and they cultivated a real air of mystery about their relationship. 446 00:21:17,736 --> 00:21:21,532 They never let it be known whether they were brother and sister 447 00:21:21,532 --> 00:21:22,741 or whether they were lovers 448 00:21:22,741 --> 00:21:24,993 and that was part of their mystique. 449 00:21:25,536 --> 00:21:28,830 I'm Valentine Uhovski. I'm a cultural curator 450 00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:31,917 and I'm one of the co-founders of Socialite Rank. 451 00:21:31,917 --> 00:21:33,085 I'm Olga Rei. 452 00:21:33,085 --> 00:21:39,007 Um, I'm a co-founder of Socialite Rank and... that's it. 453 00:21:39,967 --> 00:21:42,177 [indistinct chatter] 454 00:21:42,845 --> 00:21:47,057 VALENTINE: We both came to New York in mid-'90s from Russia. 455 00:21:47,057 --> 00:21:50,060 While we were still in high school, we started working pretty early. 456 00:21:50,477 --> 00:21:52,646 Olga worked in two modeling agencies. 457 00:21:52,646 --> 00:21:54,439 I worked in PR, 458 00:21:54,439 --> 00:21:57,401 so we kind of had a little bit of exposure to the world. 459 00:21:59,194 --> 00:22:01,905 OLGA REI: And also, I interned for Marc Jacobs, 460 00:22:01,905 --> 00:22:05,200 and, you know, through that, I got to attend some of his parties 461 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,120 and his events are just the most beautiful parties 462 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,121 you could attend. 463 00:22:09,121 --> 00:22:12,374 My first makeup experience was with Amanda Lepore 464 00:22:12,374 --> 00:22:14,084 and she did my, my lips. 465 00:22:14,084 --> 00:22:17,671 So, New York was a very special place where you can go and meet Amanda Lepore 466 00:22:17,671 --> 00:22:20,507 and she would give you a makeup tutorial. 467 00:22:21,341 --> 00:22:22,968 [indistinct chatter] 468 00:22:23,468 --> 00:22:27,181 VALENTINE: When we're both 19, we started promoting at a club. 469 00:22:27,764 --> 00:22:32,102 Promoted something like 30 events with everyone from Jenna Jameson 470 00:22:32,102 --> 00:22:34,396 to socialites. 471 00:22:34,396 --> 00:22:36,982 Social Rank was an art project 472 00:22:36,982 --> 00:22:40,068 and when we conceived it, we thought it was a complete joke, 473 00:22:40,068 --> 00:22:43,363 that it was, like, an inside, like, a Pop Art joke. 474 00:22:43,363 --> 00:22:47,159 We were inspired by everyone from Duchamp with his, like, Dada movement, 475 00:22:47,159 --> 00:22:47,993 to, you know-- 476 00:22:47,993 --> 00:22:50,787 Andy Warhol. I mean, we love Andy Warhol 477 00:22:50,787 --> 00:22:54,374 and just the melting pot of the high and low 478 00:22:54,374 --> 00:22:57,961 and how he would bring drag queens and then socialites together 479 00:22:57,961 --> 00:23:02,799 and create beautiful projects with it that we see in the museums right now. 480 00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:04,801 So, it was always an art project. 481 00:23:05,677 --> 00:23:08,222 VALENTINE: Tinsley, she was at her prime 482 00:23:08,222 --> 00:23:10,599 and, and just kind of, like, this perfect character 483 00:23:10,599 --> 00:23:11,850 that you couldn't even invent. 484 00:23:11,850 --> 00:23:13,602 I mean, she was just this amazing, friendly, 485 00:23:13,602 --> 00:23:15,562 sunny kind of woman 486 00:23:15,562 --> 00:23:19,608 that, um, just became almost like a poster child for the website 487 00:23:19,608 --> 00:23:20,651 when it launched. 488 00:23:20,651 --> 00:23:23,028 [indistinct shouting] 489 00:23:23,028 --> 00:23:26,031 Olivia was, you know, super young. She was younger than us. 490 00:23:26,031 --> 00:23:29,535 She was almost like an anti-Tinsley in some ways, 491 00:23:29,535 --> 00:23:30,994 not just with the hair color. 492 00:23:30,994 --> 00:23:33,080 She was just younger, more emerging, 493 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,707 and she was just like this, you know, beautiful girl 494 00:23:35,707 --> 00:23:38,794 that, like us, appeared out of nowhere, burst into the scene. 495 00:23:39,503 --> 00:23:42,798 And Tinsley, she kind of was old school 496 00:23:42,798 --> 00:23:45,300 and Olivia represented of what was coming. 497 00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,804 So, we created a storylines of who the heroes were, 498 00:23:48,804 --> 00:23:50,264 who the villains were, 499 00:23:50,264 --> 00:23:52,474 but it was also, like, a lot of the comment sections 500 00:23:52,474 --> 00:23:55,018 dictated a lot where the storylines went. 501 00:23:55,811 --> 00:23:58,981 And at that point, it basically grew on its own. 502 00:23:58,981 --> 00:24:00,274 It was a ecosystem, 503 00:24:00,274 --> 00:24:04,945 so it really was its own world where people would just-- 504 00:24:04,945 --> 00:24:06,738 they would have dialogues with each other. 505 00:24:08,073 --> 00:24:09,992 PERSON 2: "Tinsley is washed up!" 506 00:24:10,534 --> 00:24:12,160 "She's so two-thousand late." 507 00:24:12,703 --> 00:24:14,121 PERSON 3: "Is her nose real? 508 00:24:14,121 --> 00:24:16,164 Her hair? Her wealth?" 509 00:24:16,164 --> 00:24:18,250 PERSON 4: "Welcome to the top, bitches! 510 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:20,335 It's a long way back down." 511 00:24:20,335 --> 00:24:22,880 People just can sit on their sofa behind their computer 512 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,048 and just make all these comments about you. 513 00:24:25,048 --> 00:24:27,926 Having, you know, to deal with all these negative comments 514 00:24:27,926 --> 00:24:30,929 or just feeling like I was a target or had, like, a bullseye on my back, 515 00:24:30,929 --> 00:24:32,598 it took me down a bit. 516 00:24:33,056 --> 00:24:34,433 It made things different. 517 00:24:34,433 --> 00:24:36,810 It made things look like they were competitive when they weren't, 518 00:24:36,810 --> 00:24:37,769 at least for me. 519 00:24:37,769 --> 00:24:39,021 It made things look more seedy 520 00:24:39,021 --> 00:24:41,690 when it was people were doing good work in these events 521 00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:42,941 and they might be being photographed 522 00:24:42,941 --> 00:24:44,443 and might be, you know, wearing glamorous clothes, 523 00:24:44,443 --> 00:24:47,029 but it just wasn't the world that they were sort of portraying. 524 00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:50,157 I get that they were doing sort of a mockery of it a little bit 525 00:24:50,157 --> 00:24:52,367 and it was sort of fun and people loved it. 526 00:24:52,618 --> 00:24:55,704 Uh, so it's, it's hard 'cause that, to me, 527 00:24:55,704 --> 00:24:58,707 honestly, I don't-- I, I feel like it was-- that was a, 528 00:24:58,707 --> 00:25:00,417 that was a rough moment. 529 00:25:00,417 --> 00:25:02,002 I just think overall it kind of was 530 00:25:02,002 --> 00:25:04,671 a little bit more hurtful to me than, than helpful. 531 00:25:06,298 --> 00:25:09,635 PERSON 5: Socialite Rank posted an email that young socialite 532 00:25:09,635 --> 00:25:12,554 and New School University student, Olivia Palermo, 533 00:25:12,554 --> 00:25:15,015 sent to all her frenemies on Sunday. 534 00:25:15,849 --> 00:25:17,392 There was a minor scandal 535 00:25:17,392 --> 00:25:19,811 involving Olivia Palermo and Socialite Rank. 536 00:25:20,521 --> 00:25:21,897 They published an email, 537 00:25:21,897 --> 00:25:24,775 which they claimed she had sent to her fellow socials 538 00:25:24,775 --> 00:25:27,569 saying to the other girls on the scene, 539 00:25:27,569 --> 00:25:28,987 "Oh, we've got off on the wrong foot 540 00:25:28,987 --> 00:25:31,406 "and, you know, the-- people are saying mean things about me, 541 00:25:31,406 --> 00:25:33,450 but I'm really not like that. I'm much nicer." 542 00:25:33,450 --> 00:25:36,745 And the way that Socialite Rank positioned this email 543 00:25:36,745 --> 00:25:37,788 when they published it 544 00:25:37,788 --> 00:25:39,790 was that she was sucking up to the other girls 545 00:25:39,790 --> 00:25:42,543 in order to gain a position in their society. 546 00:25:42,543 --> 00:25:44,169 I think it goes to show 547 00:25:44,169 --> 00:25:47,464 that someone was clearly-- had too much time on their hands, 548 00:25:47,464 --> 00:25:49,091 or I was a little exciting for them, 549 00:25:49,091 --> 00:25:50,676 so I'll take that as a compliment. 550 00:25:50,676 --> 00:25:53,345 But other than that, I was not happy with the fact 551 00:25:53,345 --> 00:25:56,640 that someone was using my name and likeness without my consent. 552 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,394 I think it anything, it was just more, um, the fact 553 00:26:00,394 --> 00:26:01,979 that someone can be so malicious. 554 00:26:01,979 --> 00:26:04,147 ZACKARY DRUCKER: When did you first become aware of it? 555 00:26:04,147 --> 00:26:05,858 I have-- I had only known about it 556 00:26:05,858 --> 00:26:07,860 because someone had mentioned it twice to me, 557 00:26:07,860 --> 00:26:09,236 but it was not on my radar 558 00:26:09,236 --> 00:26:12,281 'cause it wasn't the content that I was reading at the time. 559 00:26:12,865 --> 00:26:16,034 So, I was aware of it, obviously, when my friends told me that, like, 560 00:26:16,034 --> 00:26:18,620 "Should maybe, like, call your lawyer and check this out." 561 00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:20,497 The internet was a new time. 562 00:26:20,497 --> 00:26:23,625 Laws were not really created for online yet, 563 00:26:23,625 --> 00:26:25,419 so it was kind of a free-for-all, 564 00:26:25,419 --> 00:26:28,297 but, you know, it was important to make sure that it was shut down 565 00:26:28,297 --> 00:26:31,175 and, um, we did that quite quickly. 566 00:26:31,175 --> 00:26:32,092 [slight chuckle] 567 00:26:34,386 --> 00:26:36,763 BEN: Olivia Palermo threatened to sue. 568 00:26:36,763 --> 00:26:39,558 Whether she did or didn't sue, I'm not sure she did, 569 00:26:39,558 --> 00:26:41,101 she certainly rattled her saber 570 00:26:41,101 --> 00:26:42,811 and that was enough to bring the house of cards 571 00:26:42,811 --> 00:26:44,980 that was Socialite Rank crashing down. 572 00:26:45,355 --> 00:26:47,107 VALENTINE: It was bigger than us 573 00:26:47,107 --> 00:26:51,153 because every single one of these women had managers behind them, 574 00:26:51,153 --> 00:26:52,946 publicists, wealthy families, 575 00:26:52,946 --> 00:26:56,366 so we were always had, in a way, incredible power 576 00:26:56,366 --> 00:26:59,786 but we were just young college kids that were way over our league 577 00:26:59,786 --> 00:27:01,538 when it came to the status 578 00:27:01,538 --> 00:27:05,167 and, and, um, and, obviously, wealth of some of the ladies on the list. 579 00:27:07,836 --> 00:27:13,008 ZACKARY: What do you think this whole blogging era says about us as a culture? 580 00:27:13,008 --> 00:27:14,343 Well, that's America for you. 581 00:27:14,343 --> 00:27:16,803 They ha-- They bring them up and then they bring them down. 582 00:27:16,803 --> 00:27:18,722 I would like them just to, like, can we just stay up 583 00:27:18,722 --> 00:27:20,599 and just, you know, stay happy up? 584 00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:22,226 Why do we always have to tear people down? 585 00:27:22,226 --> 00:27:23,310 Doesn't make sense to me. 586 00:27:25,354 --> 00:27:29,066 BEN: Socialite Rank really set the scene for interest in this kind of world 587 00:27:29,066 --> 00:27:31,235 and when that went away, it left a void. 588 00:27:31,235 --> 00:27:34,488 And so, there was a ready-made audience who wanted to know about these women 589 00:27:34,488 --> 00:27:37,824 and that's when Park Avenue Peerage arrived on the scene. 590 00:27:38,158 --> 00:27:41,578 And Park Avenue Peerage was very different in tone. 591 00:27:41,578 --> 00:27:43,247 Uh, it was much more celebratory of the women, 592 00:27:43,247 --> 00:27:44,665 it was much more respectful 593 00:27:44,665 --> 00:27:48,627 and we were still very much in the era of the snarky blog. 594 00:27:48,627 --> 00:27:49,878 So, it was refreshing at the time 595 00:27:49,878 --> 00:27:53,131 to see someone taking an approach which was not as critical, 596 00:27:53,131 --> 00:27:56,593 uh, and not so interested in pitting the women against each other. 597 00:27:58,303 --> 00:28:01,807 PERSON 6: " I cordially welcome you to Park Avenue Peerage, 598 00:28:01,807 --> 00:28:04,434 "a new website dedicated to the social creatures 599 00:28:04,434 --> 00:28:05,853 "of the here and now. 600 00:28:06,979 --> 00:28:10,941 "We wish the creators of Socialite Rank all the best in their endeavors, 601 00:28:10,941 --> 00:28:13,402 "but their collective judgment is over now. 602 00:28:13,902 --> 00:28:15,904 The crown became ours this morning." 603 00:28:16,947 --> 00:28:18,323 TINSLEY: Park Avenue Peerage appeared 604 00:28:18,323 --> 00:28:21,493 right when Socialite Rank was ending or ended, 605 00:28:21,493 --> 00:28:23,996 and I remember noticing it and thinking, 606 00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:27,499 "Okay, well, this one seems nicer." 607 00:28:27,499 --> 00:28:29,418 There was no rankings and things, 608 00:28:29,418 --> 00:28:32,754 so it wasn't this, like, competition that's being put forth 609 00:28:32,754 --> 00:28:34,381 that never really existed. 610 00:28:34,381 --> 00:28:36,550 Whoever the mysterious people were that were doing it 611 00:28:36,550 --> 00:28:38,468 were very smart and definitely seemed 612 00:28:38,468 --> 00:28:41,513 so knowledgeable about the world of socialites. 613 00:28:41,513 --> 00:28:44,057 And that's also why it was Park Avenue Peerage, you know? 614 00:28:44,057 --> 00:28:46,059 It was just sort of sounded more grand. 615 00:28:48,103 --> 00:28:50,731 PERSON 7: In New York, the guilty party pictures pleasures 616 00:28:50,731 --> 00:28:52,357 offered at Park Avenue Peerage 617 00:28:52,357 --> 00:28:56,820 may be the closest thing to a real-life Gossip Girl website in existence, 618 00:28:56,820 --> 00:28:59,072 except way, way nicer. 619 00:29:00,157 --> 00:29:02,117 BEN: Was an instant sensation, 620 00:29:02,117 --> 00:29:04,328 and like Socialite Rank, nobody knew who wrote it 621 00:29:04,328 --> 00:29:06,788 and it really did sound like it was written 622 00:29:06,788 --> 00:29:10,876 by some Gossip Girl -esque anonymous scion of a rich family. 623 00:29:10,876 --> 00:29:13,462 And because Park Avenue Peerage was written by someone 624 00:29:13,462 --> 00:29:17,090 who had a little bit more understanding of what went on in that world, 625 00:29:17,090 --> 00:29:18,800 there was sort of more a possibility 626 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,637 that it might have been written by someone who was inside the scene. 627 00:29:21,970 --> 00:29:25,974 And Park Avenue Peerage seemed to want to emulate them and understand them, 628 00:29:25,974 --> 00:29:29,520 uh, emotionally in a way that Socialite Rank never tried to do. 629 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,064 But the one consistent thing between the two of them 630 00:29:32,064 --> 00:29:35,817 was that Tinsley Mortimer was still the most socially regarded girl. 631 00:29:35,817 --> 00:29:39,696 PERSON 8: Tinsley is fair-skinned with blonde hair that she usually curls. 632 00:29:39,696 --> 00:29:42,699 She often wears shorter skirts and rounded shoes 633 00:29:42,699 --> 00:29:45,202 and her cheeks are rouged. 634 00:29:45,202 --> 00:29:47,621 She is the embodiment of playful youth. 635 00:29:48,622 --> 00:29:51,291 TINSLEY: Because they wrote so much about me, 636 00:29:51,291 --> 00:29:53,919 people thought that I had something to do with it, 637 00:29:53,919 --> 00:29:57,881 but they all found out who it was and it wasn't me. [laughs] 638 00:30:01,385 --> 00:30:04,471 ♪ light music playing ♪ 639 00:30:13,647 --> 00:30:15,315 ADAM HOFF: Working as a photographer, 640 00:30:15,315 --> 00:30:19,278 my first actual assignment was with New York Magazine 641 00:30:19,278 --> 00:30:23,782 and the story in the magazine was basically about the New York society 642 00:30:23,782 --> 00:30:25,826 and a few of these bloggers. 643 00:30:26,785 --> 00:30:30,289 I mean, Park Avenue Peerage was as anonymous as you could be. 644 00:30:32,207 --> 00:30:34,751 All I was told was he was a college student 645 00:30:34,751 --> 00:30:36,628 at University of Illinois 646 00:30:36,628 --> 00:30:40,215 and so, there was a lot of hype and a lot of interest 647 00:30:40,215 --> 00:30:41,550 to find out who this person was. 648 00:30:41,550 --> 00:30:44,094 ♪ 649 00:30:45,721 --> 00:30:47,472 I remember meeting him in person right away. 650 00:30:47,472 --> 00:30:50,100 To my knowledge, this was the first time he had been photographed. 651 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:53,437 ♪ 652 00:30:53,437 --> 00:30:55,856 He was very easy to be around. He was very easy to talk to. 653 00:30:55,856 --> 00:30:58,192 But at the same time, he was very nervous about it, 654 00:30:58,192 --> 00:31:01,486 and very insecure about how he was gonna be perceived. 655 00:31:01,486 --> 00:31:05,073 I mean, he was a total outsider from what I could tell. 656 00:31:05,657 --> 00:31:08,785 When he was finally revealed to be James Kurisunkal, 657 00:31:08,785 --> 00:31:12,623 it was completely unexpected. 658 00:31:12,623 --> 00:31:14,541 It didn't make any sense. [chuckles] 659 00:31:14,541 --> 00:31:16,627 JAMES KURISUNKAL: Why did I even come out? 660 00:31:16,627 --> 00:31:19,338 The writer of the New York piece, Isaiah Wilner, called me 661 00:31:19,338 --> 00:31:22,090 and we talked for hours off the record. 662 00:31:22,090 --> 00:31:25,511 I am aware that there was intrigue in a mysterious author, 663 00:31:25,511 --> 00:31:27,513 but I just didn't see it. 664 00:31:27,513 --> 00:31:30,891 I think it is much more interesting that I am who I am, 665 00:31:30,891 --> 00:31:34,269 a chronicler of Manhattan society in the Midwest, 666 00:31:34,269 --> 00:31:36,980 who is neither WASP nor heir of industry. 667 00:31:37,439 --> 00:31:40,776 When James's identity was finally revealed in New York Magazine, 668 00:31:40,776 --> 00:31:41,902 I think it was shocking to people, 669 00:31:41,902 --> 00:31:44,279 uh, because he was in Illinois for one thing. 670 00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:46,907 He was far away from the action, uh, and he was so young. 671 00:31:50,702 --> 00:31:52,371 CAMERA ASSISTANT: Family interview, take one. 672 00:31:52,788 --> 00:31:54,373 JOSEPH KURISUNKAL: Thank you for coming here. 673 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,667 PHILOMENA KURISUNKAL: We had never heard this, 674 00:31:56,667 --> 00:31:59,378 so this is our first experience. 675 00:31:59,711 --> 00:32:02,005 We are norm-- you know, ordinary people. 676 00:32:06,844 --> 00:32:09,012 James born in '89. 677 00:32:09,429 --> 00:32:15,394 He's very caring, simple, and, uh, compassionate. 678 00:32:15,644 --> 00:32:20,440 And, uh, in school, he's a brilliant student. 679 00:32:20,983 --> 00:32:23,652 JOSEPH: He like science project all the time. 680 00:32:23,652 --> 00:32:27,865 He was in the gifted class from the grade school to high school. 681 00:32:27,865 --> 00:32:30,242 Doing homework and, uh, you know. 682 00:32:30,242 --> 00:32:34,246 He reads a lot, so finally he start writing. 683 00:32:35,038 --> 00:32:38,709 ♪ 684 00:32:38,709 --> 00:32:41,712 JAMES: My favorite movie when I was a child was Clueless. 685 00:32:41,712 --> 00:32:44,214 I literally thought I was Cher Horowitz. 686 00:32:44,214 --> 00:32:49,011 I'm not kidding. My imagination is wild. 687 00:32:49,011 --> 00:32:51,263 Television and film and wedding announcements 688 00:32:51,263 --> 00:32:54,349 and novels, therefore, are much more than moving images 689 00:32:54,349 --> 00:32:56,059 or groupings of text. 690 00:32:56,059 --> 00:32:58,854 My body physically hurts when I'm watching or reading 691 00:32:58,854 --> 00:33:01,064 because I feel so much for the character. 692 00:33:01,982 --> 00:33:05,444 I have the ability to plant myself anywhere. 693 00:33:05,444 --> 00:33:07,362 ZACKARY: Did you know what he was writing? 694 00:33:07,362 --> 00:33:08,238 He never tell us. 695 00:33:08,238 --> 00:33:12,284 He, he don't show and, uh, he don't, uh, tell what he's doing. 696 00:33:13,076 --> 00:33:15,162 JAMES: La Lohan is my religion. 697 00:33:15,996 --> 00:33:18,707 I also enjoy Nicky Hilton's casual style. 698 00:33:18,707 --> 00:33:21,793 If I were a girl, I think I'd be Nicky Hilton. 699 00:33:21,793 --> 00:33:24,630 I'd carry the largest, clunkiest bag in daylight 700 00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:27,341 and of course, my clunky sidekick. 701 00:33:27,341 --> 00:33:29,593 ZACKARY: When James was young, did you feel like there was things 702 00:33:29,593 --> 00:33:32,012 that he kept secret or private? 703 00:33:32,596 --> 00:33:34,431 Most of them are private. 704 00:33:36,308 --> 00:33:38,560 JAMES: I'm so fat and ugly. 705 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,064 I saw my reflection in the mirror and I'm one large, silver mound of fat. 706 00:33:42,814 --> 00:33:44,775 I'm like an ugly boulder. 707 00:33:44,775 --> 00:33:46,944 They're usually majestic, but I am not. 708 00:33:48,237 --> 00:33:51,156 He never show anything, you know, upset or anything that, 709 00:33:51,156 --> 00:33:53,867 always smiling, talking. 710 00:33:53,867 --> 00:33:55,619 Maybe he keeping inside something. 711 00:33:55,619 --> 00:33:57,371 - Yeah. He don't-- - We don't know. 712 00:33:57,371 --> 00:34:00,249 You know, if-- He was not very open all the time. 713 00:34:00,999 --> 00:34:05,295 That's, uh, you know, a main part, you know, nobody would know what his, 714 00:34:05,295 --> 00:34:07,256 - his feelings are. - Happening with him. 715 00:34:07,256 --> 00:34:10,717 ♪ upbeat music playing ♪ 716 00:34:10,717 --> 00:34:12,177 CASEY BLAKELY: When James and I first met, 717 00:34:12,177 --> 00:34:15,264 I was a sophomore and he was a freshman. 718 00:34:15,264 --> 00:34:18,725 It was one of those college towns where there was nothing around 719 00:34:18,725 --> 00:34:20,811 except for the college town. 720 00:34:20,811 --> 00:34:23,021 ♪ 721 00:34:23,021 --> 00:34:27,526 There was a gay bar on campus called Chester Street 722 00:34:27,526 --> 00:34:28,735 or C Street for short, 723 00:34:28,735 --> 00:34:31,363 and we would go there and just, like, dance the night away. 724 00:34:31,363 --> 00:34:33,907 It was such a small-town bar, but in our heads, 725 00:34:33,907 --> 00:34:37,327 might as well have been Babylon from, like, Queer as Folk. 726 00:34:37,327 --> 00:34:39,371 I had just come out, it was my sophomore year. 727 00:34:39,371 --> 00:34:44,418 I was like 19 and I was going through all my girl drama at that time 728 00:34:44,418 --> 00:34:47,588 and coming to him and confiding in him, 729 00:34:47,588 --> 00:34:51,008 and so he and I really did kind of connect. 730 00:34:51,008 --> 00:34:55,637 ♪ 731 00:34:55,637 --> 00:34:58,682 He was a wild child. 732 00:34:58,682 --> 00:35:00,475 He was just unique, 733 00:35:00,475 --> 00:35:03,854 a pure individual, did things his own way 734 00:35:03,854 --> 00:35:06,356 and I just learned to kind of, like, go with it. 735 00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:09,359 Just like, "Okay, that's just James. He just does things his own way." 736 00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:12,613 JAMES: "Homo in the Husks, journal entry. 737 00:35:12,613 --> 00:35:15,991 "I'm at a real college now, like, with fraternities and football 738 00:35:15,991 --> 00:35:17,826 "and English majors. 739 00:35:17,826 --> 00:35:21,496 "I love pumpkin pie ice cream with caramel and whipping topping and graham crackers 740 00:35:21,496 --> 00:35:23,207 "and boys with French surnames. 741 00:35:24,124 --> 00:35:27,044 "Joseph DuBois flirted with me at Coldstone today. 742 00:35:27,044 --> 00:35:30,380 He's sweet and kind-eyed and he laughs." 743 00:35:31,882 --> 00:35:33,217 CASEY: He's an amazing writer. 744 00:35:33,217 --> 00:35:36,595 Like, he's extremely talented, extremely creative, 745 00:35:36,595 --> 00:35:39,264 very witty, very insightful. 746 00:35:39,264 --> 00:35:41,725 He always gave really great, sound advice, 747 00:35:41,725 --> 00:35:45,187 but didn't always make the best decisions when it came to himself. 748 00:35:45,646 --> 00:35:47,105 JAMES: I'm not gorgeous. 749 00:35:47,105 --> 00:35:51,944 I'm not skinny, I'm not attractive, nor am I fashionable one bit. 750 00:35:51,944 --> 00:35:53,612 I smell mostly, and I'm brown. 751 00:35:54,696 --> 00:35:56,990 Who will find my drama endearing? 752 00:35:56,990 --> 00:35:59,952 My laughing, my smile, my eyes, my skin? 753 00:36:00,536 --> 00:36:02,162 Who will love these? 754 00:36:02,871 --> 00:36:04,831 I wish I had someone who understood me. 755 00:36:07,251 --> 00:36:11,338 CASEY: James never verbally said, "I want to be a socialite," 756 00:36:11,338 --> 00:36:13,590 but if I pay closer attention, 757 00:36:13,590 --> 00:36:15,926 I could see he wanted to be in that world. 758 00:36:15,926 --> 00:36:17,678 He wanted to be amongst them, 759 00:36:17,678 --> 00:36:20,138 and Tinsley was like his number one. 760 00:36:21,306 --> 00:36:24,810 JAMES: "Tinsley Mortimer, March 7, 2007. 761 00:36:25,894 --> 00:36:28,146 "Tinsley Mortimer has been the target of the camera 762 00:36:28,146 --> 00:36:31,316 "since she first made her premiere as the demure but beautiful 763 00:36:31,316 --> 00:36:34,945 and fashionable wife of a scion of one of New York's older families." 764 00:36:35,988 --> 00:36:37,948 CASEY: It was clear that it was really important to him 765 00:36:37,948 --> 00:36:39,199 and he really treasured it. 766 00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:41,869 That was, that was his world, uh, he really did admire that-- 767 00:36:41,869 --> 00:36:45,747 I would ask him sometimes, like, "How do you know so much about them?" 768 00:36:45,747 --> 00:36:48,375 And he would, he would laugh and just say, like, 769 00:36:48,375 --> 00:36:50,836 "Casey, you can literally Google the information." 770 00:36:50,836 --> 00:36:53,839 He's like, "It's literally out there for anyone to read about 771 00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:55,257 if they really do the research." 772 00:36:55,257 --> 00:36:57,926 He was the first one to kind of show me Google Analytics 773 00:36:57,926 --> 00:37:00,888 and all the background of who was visiting 774 00:37:00,888 --> 00:37:04,266 and how many more people visited than, like, the week before. 775 00:37:04,266 --> 00:37:07,269 And when it became, like, really popular, 776 00:37:07,269 --> 00:37:09,855 that, for me, it kind of seemed a little bit overnight. 777 00:37:11,732 --> 00:37:14,860 JAMES: "Debut. May 7, 2007. 778 00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:18,530 "It's a simple fact that every glorious debutante of our age 779 00:37:18,530 --> 00:37:21,033 "deserves a proper and befitting coming out, 780 00:37:22,075 --> 00:37:24,536 "and I refuse to give myself anything else. 781 00:37:25,537 --> 00:37:28,457 "Yesterday, I was but an unknown deb. 782 00:37:29,458 --> 00:37:32,878 This morning, I liken myself to a Miller." 783 00:37:33,420 --> 00:37:34,838 CASEY: When the story came out, 784 00:37:34,838 --> 00:37:38,050 where he was offered a job with the New York Magazine 785 00:37:38,050 --> 00:37:42,179 and then I was just so proud of him, like beaming from ear to ear. 786 00:37:42,179 --> 00:37:47,184 That was the ticket for him to be amongst who he wrote about 787 00:37:47,184 --> 00:37:48,393 and knew so much about. 788 00:37:48,936 --> 00:37:51,688 JAMES: "I can't wait to move to New York this summer. 789 00:37:51,688 --> 00:37:53,565 "I'd like to become an executive, 790 00:37:53,565 --> 00:37:56,026 "like a publisher or a studio head. 791 00:37:56,026 --> 00:37:57,694 I wanna be afforded respect." 792 00:37:59,571 --> 00:38:02,699 BEN: When he came to New York, I would see him around at the time 793 00:38:02,699 --> 00:38:04,826 and I had a column called "Gate Crasher." 794 00:38:04,826 --> 00:38:06,662 Well, I guess James was a reader of the column, 795 00:38:06,662 --> 00:38:09,414 and of course, he was fascinated with the world that I was covering. 796 00:38:09,414 --> 00:38:12,084 It started a correspondence, uh, and he was delightful 797 00:38:12,084 --> 00:38:14,002 and he was a little bit starstruck, I think, 798 00:38:14,002 --> 00:38:17,673 about, you know, to be finally there in this fairytale land 799 00:38:17,673 --> 00:38:20,050 that he'd been describing from afar for so long. 800 00:38:20,050 --> 00:38:21,552 [indistinct chatter] 801 00:38:22,177 --> 00:38:26,640 TINSLEY: When James got to New York, he reached out to me 802 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,101 and he was so sweet and such a fan 803 00:38:29,101 --> 00:38:31,311 and he was wanting to meet me and all these things, 804 00:38:31,311 --> 00:38:34,648 and that's-- I-I found out he didn't even live in New York. 805 00:38:34,648 --> 00:38:37,442 It was so crazy and so cute, adorable. 806 00:38:37,442 --> 00:38:39,236 I was like, "How cute is this?" You know? 807 00:38:39,236 --> 00:38:42,990 This fascination with this world and you're not even anywhere near it. 808 00:38:43,782 --> 00:38:45,409 And so, I set up where he was gonna meet me 809 00:38:45,409 --> 00:38:46,952 at one of the Cinema Society events 810 00:38:46,952 --> 00:38:49,580 and we did, and I think [indistinct] was there. 811 00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:53,542 JAMES: "New York Magazine. July 12, 2007. 812 00:38:53,542 --> 00:38:56,461 "Park Avenue Peers: A Blogger Meets Tinsley. 813 00:38:57,754 --> 00:39:00,757 "As I got out of the taxi in front of the Tribeca Grand last night, 814 00:39:00,757 --> 00:39:03,177 "there were already blinding flashes. 815 00:39:03,177 --> 00:39:07,890 "There she was, Tinsley Mortimer in full glory, 816 00:39:07,890 --> 00:39:10,142 "a vision in Dior. 817 00:39:10,142 --> 00:39:14,521 "A summer tan, golden heels and that long, blonde hair. 818 00:39:15,355 --> 00:39:18,066 "Then I walked past the photographers, opened the door, 819 00:39:18,066 --> 00:39:19,985 "and there she was waiting for me. 820 00:39:20,527 --> 00:39:23,113 'We are going to have a great night,' she promised." 821 00:39:23,655 --> 00:39:26,241 CASEY: I remember him telling me about meeting Tinsley, 822 00:39:26,825 --> 00:39:30,829 and he was very excited and very giddy 823 00:39:30,829 --> 00:39:35,792 and, um, I was happy for him as well. Yeah. 824 00:39:35,792 --> 00:39:39,630 ♪ 825 00:39:45,677 --> 00:39:49,973 MORGAN: As a child, I felt unstable in my own skin. 826 00:39:50,849 --> 00:39:52,935 I felt like I couldn't breathe. 827 00:39:53,977 --> 00:39:57,940 ♪ 828 00:40:03,695 --> 00:40:05,197 Now that I'm older, 829 00:40:05,572 --> 00:40:07,824 I see how two different people existed. 830 00:40:09,284 --> 00:40:11,954 One that was James, one that was me. 831 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,338 ♪ 832 00:40:21,338 --> 00:40:25,759 I always feel like "become" is, like, like a strangling word 833 00:40:25,759 --> 00:40:29,304 because it's really to be who one really is. 834 00:40:30,889 --> 00:40:33,892 You know, we might go through some physical changes, 835 00:40:33,892 --> 00:40:36,937 but we're not becoming anyone. 836 00:40:36,937 --> 00:40:40,774 We are being who we always were. 837 00:40:40,774 --> 00:40:45,821 Just took a little bit of time and a little bit of, uh, pain. 838 00:40:50,450 --> 00:40:53,328 My best friend when I was in high school 839 00:40:53,787 --> 00:40:56,957 was like, this like, old-money heiress. 840 00:40:57,332 --> 00:41:01,336 Her great-grandfather was Roswell Mason, 841 00:41:01,336 --> 00:41:04,590 who was, like, the mayor of Chicago during the Great Fire 842 00:41:04,590 --> 00:41:09,011 and he was also the president of the Illinois Central Railroad 843 00:41:09,011 --> 00:41:11,722 and, like, a colleague of Cornelius Vanderbilt. 844 00:41:11,722 --> 00:41:15,976 For instance, like, her uncle's name was like, Huntington Starkweather Mason. 845 00:41:15,976 --> 00:41:17,519 You go to Yale's campus, 846 00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:20,480 there's all these, like, buildings named after their family. 847 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,483 Like, they were very old East Coast money 848 00:41:23,483 --> 00:41:27,779 and I didn't realize, like, there were all these systems in place, 849 00:41:27,779 --> 00:41:29,615 so I was just fascinated by that. 850 00:41:29,615 --> 00:41:33,243 ♪ 851 00:41:34,203 --> 00:41:37,998 And then I was, like, fascinated by her a lot. 852 00:41:37,998 --> 00:41:42,002 Here she was at this school of immigrants 853 00:41:42,002 --> 00:41:45,589 and we kind of, like, found each other. Like, we were like two weirdos. 854 00:41:47,591 --> 00:41:49,301 Jennifer Aniston was in Chicago 855 00:41:49,301 --> 00:41:52,930 filming a movie called The Break-Up with Vince Vaughn. 856 00:41:52,930 --> 00:41:54,765 We were like prodigious readers, 857 00:41:54,765 --> 00:41:57,100 so we were, like, reading, like, Perez Hilton, 858 00:41:57,100 --> 00:42:00,103 Wonkette, Pink is the New Blog. 859 00:42:00,103 --> 00:42:04,233 And so, I sent that as a tip in to Perez Hilton. 860 00:42:04,233 --> 00:42:06,777 I realized with just a word or a phrase, 861 00:42:06,777 --> 00:42:12,282 like, the layer between myself and this glamorous, glittering world 862 00:42:12,282 --> 00:42:13,617 was not separate at all. 863 00:42:13,617 --> 00:42:16,286 With just a word, with just a few phrases. 864 00:42:16,954 --> 00:42:19,998 There was no separation. It was right there. 865 00:42:20,791 --> 00:42:25,128 ZACKARY: I wanna get into talking about New York and what that was like. 866 00:42:25,128 --> 00:42:28,841 Oh, yeah. Like, they treated me like I was like, the Second Coming of Christ 867 00:42:28,841 --> 00:42:30,509 when I walked into that building. 868 00:42:30,968 --> 00:42:34,012 ♪ angelic music playing ♪ 869 00:42:41,144 --> 00:42:42,896 When I worked at New York Magazine, 870 00:42:42,896 --> 00:42:46,441 everything was done to like, make sure that I was pampered. 871 00:42:46,441 --> 00:42:48,694 All these, like, sorts of prominent people 872 00:42:48,694 --> 00:42:50,571 would come and pay homage. 873 00:42:50,571 --> 00:42:53,365 And it was really surreal, to be quite honest, 874 00:42:53,365 --> 00:42:55,993 to go from, like, Champaign-Urbana 875 00:42:55,993 --> 00:43:00,372 to, like, literally two weeks later, I have my own place in the East Village 876 00:43:00,372 --> 00:43:04,209 and I have a chauffeur taking me here and there 877 00:43:04,209 --> 00:43:10,007 and, you know, lunch with this aristocrat and dinner with this other person. 878 00:43:10,007 --> 00:43:13,969 ♪ 879 00:43:13,969 --> 00:43:17,598 I would go out at night with my colleague at New York Magazine. 880 00:43:17,598 --> 00:43:21,226 We'd go to all these clubs that other people couldn't get into, 881 00:43:21,226 --> 00:43:22,686 like the Beatrice Inn. 882 00:43:22,686 --> 00:43:27,733 That's where we'd run into like, these downtown kind of characters 883 00:43:27,733 --> 00:43:30,986 that were, like, not uptown socialites. 884 00:43:30,986 --> 00:43:32,654 ♪ 885 00:43:32,654 --> 00:43:35,616 The first night I had ever gone out in New York City, 886 00:43:35,616 --> 00:43:37,451 apparently, like, everyone who's anyone 887 00:43:37,451 --> 00:43:39,077 knew that I was going out that night. 888 00:43:39,077 --> 00:43:43,123 I don't know why or how, but I walked into the elevator 889 00:43:43,123 --> 00:43:46,585 and I think it was Anna Wintour, Graydon Carter, 890 00:43:46,585 --> 00:43:50,255 the editor of GQ and then the editor of Radar, 891 00:43:50,255 --> 00:43:52,174 and they were all checking me out. 892 00:43:52,758 --> 00:43:56,512 And I was just a kid, you know, living a little bit of a dream. 893 00:43:58,764 --> 00:44:00,724 TINSLEY: How are you? It's Tins. 894 00:44:01,183 --> 00:44:03,060 Hey. [echoes] 895 00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:04,978 No, I'm still typing the post. 896 00:44:05,562 --> 00:44:08,482 Tinsley and I became very fast friends. 897 00:44:08,482 --> 00:44:12,361 Yes, I know the place. We go there all the time. 898 00:44:12,361 --> 00:44:14,821 Oh, my God. 899 00:44:14,821 --> 00:44:16,448 Hi. 900 00:44:16,448 --> 00:44:18,784 Though we looked like we were from two different worlds, 901 00:44:18,784 --> 00:44:21,161 it was almost like we were from the same world. 902 00:44:21,161 --> 00:44:24,706 Like, it was like I met my twin and she met hers. 903 00:44:24,706 --> 00:44:27,209 You're special and you're beautiful inside and out, 904 00:44:27,209 --> 00:44:30,087 and it's, it's important just to keep being you 905 00:44:30,087 --> 00:44:32,756 and letting everyone see you. 906 00:44:32,756 --> 00:44:33,632 Thank you. 907 00:44:33,882 --> 00:44:37,886 She was like a nationally ranked tennis player, like, in high school. 908 00:44:37,886 --> 00:44:41,807 Like, I could relate to her 'cause I was, like, a star writer 909 00:44:41,807 --> 00:44:43,934 when I was, like, barely 17. You know? 910 00:44:43,934 --> 00:44:48,397 So, we understood each other on that weird, teen-prodigy level. 911 00:44:49,314 --> 00:44:52,776 It was almost like this weird sorority. [giggles] 912 00:44:52,776 --> 00:44:55,445 This very secret society that was very public. 913 00:45:03,579 --> 00:45:05,664 I don't know. I feel like we talked on the phone 914 00:45:05,664 --> 00:45:09,459 like different times and just-- he was just this really sweet boy 915 00:45:09,459 --> 00:45:12,462 that, um, then was coming to New York and really wanted to meet me 916 00:45:12,462 --> 00:45:13,714 and was super excited about it. 917 00:45:13,714 --> 00:45:17,467 And I just, you know, remember-- I mean, I'm sure I did, though-- 918 00:45:17,467 --> 00:45:18,468 although I'm not sure. 919 00:45:18,468 --> 00:45:22,181 Was he, was he even doing any of the parties and coming out? 920 00:45:22,181 --> 00:45:23,223 'Cause he, he didn't-- 921 00:45:23,223 --> 00:45:25,517 Did he move to New York at that point or no? 922 00:45:25,517 --> 00:45:27,561 No. So, he really wasn't around. Yeah. 923 00:45:27,561 --> 00:45:29,188 - ZACKARY: I mean, he was 19. - Yeah. 924 00:45:29,188 --> 00:45:32,024 - ZACKARY: So, he couldn't have-- - Just like, so cute and young and I know. 925 00:45:32,024 --> 00:45:33,442 Yeah. So, no. 926 00:45:33,442 --> 00:45:36,945 ZACKARY: How does Morgan's narrative differ from reality? 927 00:45:38,238 --> 00:45:40,449 I mean, you-you've spoken with her. 928 00:45:40,449 --> 00:45:44,286 She lives in her own world and looking back, she always has. 929 00:45:44,578 --> 00:45:45,662 Um, 930 00:45:46,121 --> 00:45:49,374 things that are obvious, things that everyone can see, 931 00:45:49,374 --> 00:45:53,086 it-it's kind of clear that she doesn't always choose to see that. 932 00:45:53,086 --> 00:45:54,421 PHOTOGRAPHER 1: And right to your left. 933 00:45:54,421 --> 00:45:56,006 [indistinct chatter] 934 00:45:56,006 --> 00:45:57,841 PHOTOGRAPHER 2: Over the shoulder! 935 00:45:59,426 --> 00:46:02,012 MORGAN: There's a freedom to being the other, 936 00:46:02,012 --> 00:46:04,598 a freedom to write your own story. 937 00:46:05,557 --> 00:46:08,018 Why should I live in their reality? 938 00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:13,732 I want my own truth, a truth where I am beauty, 939 00:46:14,233 --> 00:46:16,151 I am love, 940 00:46:16,151 --> 00:46:17,736 I am everything. 941 00:46:19,821 --> 00:46:22,115 [ambient street sounds] 942 00:46:22,115 --> 00:46:24,493 CASEY: I came for a couple days and visited him in New York. 943 00:46:24,493 --> 00:46:28,247 I remember the little apartment that he was in, 944 00:46:28,247 --> 00:46:29,790 in the East Village. 945 00:46:29,790 --> 00:46:31,500 He had a s-- teeny, tiny, little room. 946 00:46:32,125 --> 00:46:36,922 I remember just being with, like, my bestie. 947 00:46:36,922 --> 00:46:39,299 We were too young to really go into any bars 948 00:46:39,299 --> 00:46:40,342 or any clubs like that, 949 00:46:40,342 --> 00:46:43,011 so we were just kind of wandering the streets 950 00:46:43,011 --> 00:46:44,847 and just kind of going to Central Park 951 00:46:44,847 --> 00:46:47,641 and trying to, like, mosey our way into parties 952 00:46:47,641 --> 00:46:50,227 that we just randomly found online. 953 00:46:50,227 --> 00:46:55,774 He found some party to go to and the address was on 1st and 1st. 954 00:46:55,774 --> 00:46:59,236 And so, we just kind of set out on foot trying to find 1st and 1st. 955 00:46:59,236 --> 00:47:02,155 We were-- kept asking each other, like, "Is that even a thing? 956 00:47:02,155 --> 00:47:05,242 Can something really be on 1st and 1st?" And it seemed like forever. 957 00:47:05,242 --> 00:47:06,535 We finally found it, 958 00:47:06,535 --> 00:47:08,871 and then we were, like, looking up at the apartment, 959 00:47:08,871 --> 00:47:09,997 like, "You go first." 960 00:47:09,997 --> 00:47:11,790 And he's like, "No, you go first." "No, you go first." 961 00:47:11,790 --> 00:47:15,085 And sadly to say, we never went inside. 962 00:47:17,296 --> 00:47:20,716 PERSON 9: "James Kurisunkal Is Interning At New York Magazine. " 963 00:47:20,716 --> 00:47:25,053 "James Kurdistan's 'Aw Shucks' Persona Is So Patently False." 964 00:47:25,053 --> 00:47:28,765 "Park Avenue Peerage: A PR-Seeking Socialite's Best Friend." 965 00:47:28,765 --> 00:47:32,895 "James Kurisunkal's Humbly Fabulous Beginnings." 966 00:47:32,895 --> 00:47:35,397 There were moments when I would be aware 967 00:47:35,397 --> 00:47:40,319 that I was not accepted, like those articles in Gawker. 968 00:47:42,446 --> 00:47:45,157 ZACKARY: Do you remember James Kurisunkal? 969 00:47:45,908 --> 00:47:47,201 No. 970 00:47:47,201 --> 00:47:49,119 ZACKARY: Can I read you one of the posts? 971 00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:50,829 Yeah, do it. Do it. 972 00:47:51,413 --> 00:47:52,414 'Kay. 973 00:47:53,332 --> 00:47:56,543 ZACKARY: "James is secretly or not quite secretly enough, 974 00:47:56,543 --> 00:47:58,921 "a total player with a very inflated opinion 975 00:47:58,921 --> 00:48:00,797 "of his own importance. 976 00:48:00,797 --> 00:48:05,594 "Mr. Kurisunkal said that he is delighted in working at New York Magazine, 977 00:48:05,594 --> 00:48:08,388 "which he called 'very horizontal in the way it's run.' 978 00:48:09,014 --> 00:48:12,059 "We wondered how horizontal New York Magazine really is, 979 00:48:12,059 --> 00:48:16,355 "so we asked a staffer there who said, 'Well, it's not Vanity Fair, 980 00:48:16,355 --> 00:48:19,399 "'but I mean he's a fucking fact-checking intern, 981 00:48:19,399 --> 00:48:22,402 which is even lower on the totem pole than regular interns.'" 982 00:48:23,028 --> 00:48:24,696 I wrote that? 983 00:48:24,696 --> 00:48:25,948 ZACKARY: Yeah, you did. 984 00:48:25,948 --> 00:48:26,865 Wow. That's-- 985 00:48:26,865 --> 00:48:30,536 I mean, I'm impressed that I talked to a New York Magazine staffer. 986 00:48:30,536 --> 00:48:31,620 [laughs] 987 00:48:34,748 --> 00:48:37,125 It's weird. Even as you read it back to me, 988 00:48:37,125 --> 00:48:39,628 I have zero memory of writing it. 989 00:48:40,212 --> 00:48:43,674 I don't want to let myself off the hook too easily about any of this. 990 00:48:44,174 --> 00:48:49,304 It's true that I was young and a cog in a machine, 991 00:48:49,721 --> 00:48:52,015 but I could've made different choices. 992 00:48:52,015 --> 00:48:53,350 I mean, I had free will. 993 00:48:53,976 --> 00:48:56,353 It was very unclear to me that these were real people 994 00:48:56,353 --> 00:48:57,896 and not like characters in a book. 995 00:48:57,896 --> 00:49:00,357 Like, we made them into characters for the internet, 996 00:49:00,357 --> 00:49:04,278 but, like, there was no sense that I was, like, writing something 997 00:49:04,278 --> 00:49:08,574 that would a-affect someone's actual life. 998 00:49:09,283 --> 00:49:11,159 James was an easy target. 999 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:17,291 MORGAN: I started feeling so many terrible things about myself 1000 00:49:17,291 --> 00:49:21,753 where I would be very aware of the fact that, um, 1001 00:49:21,753 --> 00:49:25,591 you know, I came from a background that 1002 00:49:26,383 --> 00:49:27,885 was different than theirs. 1003 00:49:27,885 --> 00:49:31,221 And that was it. Really, that was it, 1004 00:49:31,221 --> 00:49:34,349 that I came from a background that was unfamiliar to them. 1005 00:49:37,561 --> 00:49:40,606 BEN: I think for James it must have been like him being thrown into a shark tank 1006 00:49:40,606 --> 00:49:41,815 to be in the actual world 1007 00:49:41,815 --> 00:49:44,735 because being anonymous is very useful, it protects you. 1008 00:49:44,735 --> 00:49:47,237 And once you have that armor taken away from you 1009 00:49:47,237 --> 00:49:49,406 and you have to swim for yourself, 1010 00:49:49,406 --> 00:49:52,743 I think sometimes you can find that there's no one there to help you. 1011 00:49:52,743 --> 00:49:55,871 He was very young and he didn't really know 1012 00:49:55,871 --> 00:49:59,082 the codes of behavior a-and how to navigate that world. 1013 00:49:59,082 --> 00:50:01,418 And it has to be said. It's a very white world. 1014 00:50:01,418 --> 00:50:04,838 So, you know, as the child of immigrants, he really stood out. 1015 00:50:07,883 --> 00:50:10,594 After New York Magazine, he had this internship, 1016 00:50:10,594 --> 00:50:12,763 which involved him being in the Hamptons. 1017 00:50:13,514 --> 00:50:16,517 CASEY: He was staying with his boss at the time. 1018 00:50:16,517 --> 00:50:21,855 And as we all know, the Hamptons is maybe not the place to be 1019 00:50:21,855 --> 00:50:25,317 if you look anything other than white and wealthy. 1020 00:50:26,777 --> 00:50:30,739 MORGAN: I ended up living with this very racist woman. 1021 00:50:30,739 --> 00:50:35,160 There were all sorts of elements that led this person to not like me. 1022 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:40,582 It was the brown, it was the gay, it was the male. 1023 00:50:40,582 --> 00:50:45,254 It was the fact that, like, I was where it took her 20 years to get to, 1024 00:50:45,254 --> 00:50:47,464 but I was still, again, a teenager. 1025 00:50:49,925 --> 00:50:53,679 CASEY: According to James, there was some sort of altercation. 1026 00:50:55,264 --> 00:50:59,893 She was like, "You know why I don't want you around here." 1027 00:50:59,893 --> 00:51:02,062 She's like, "You know what you are." 1028 00:51:03,188 --> 00:51:06,191 And I'm like, "What is that?" And she's like, "You're a fucking--" 1029 00:51:06,191 --> 00:51:11,071 I do recall that. Yeah, he did tell me that she call him the N-word 1030 00:51:11,071 --> 00:51:14,074 and, uh, he was very hurt by that. 1031 00:51:14,074 --> 00:51:15,534 Very shocked and very hurt by that. 1032 00:51:16,326 --> 00:51:18,996 MORGAN: I always knew I was an outsider. 1033 00:51:18,996 --> 00:51:23,876 But it wasn't until someone like that saying that to my face 1034 00:51:23,876 --> 00:51:29,548 when it all became so apparent that what a dark world that, that is. 1035 00:51:30,716 --> 00:51:35,262 And it's nothing that I want anything to do with. 1036 00:51:35,762 --> 00:51:37,347 CASEY: It was cute from afar, 1037 00:51:37,347 --> 00:51:40,225 you know, him being in the little dorm room at U of I 1038 00:51:40,225 --> 00:51:43,729 and writing about them. That's a cute story. That's a great story. 1039 00:51:43,729 --> 00:51:46,773 But the actual reality of him trying to join them 1040 00:51:46,773 --> 00:51:49,568 and be amongst them and almost be like a peer with them, 1041 00:51:49,568 --> 00:51:52,362 that's not something that would happen, that could possibly happen, 1042 00:51:52,362 --> 00:51:53,572 and it didn't happen. 1043 00:51:53,572 --> 00:51:57,951 Yeah... I would say that's where the fantasy fell apart. 1044 00:52:00,329 --> 00:52:06,293 ZACKARY: Did you know that James had a difficult time emotionally, that summer? 1045 00:52:06,293 --> 00:52:08,003 Yeah, I remember that. 1046 00:52:08,003 --> 00:52:10,964 You know, he had a-- It was-- Something happened there. 1047 00:52:10,964 --> 00:52:13,383 He said, "I'm coming back to Chicago." I said, "Okay." 1048 00:52:13,383 --> 00:52:14,426 I sent him the ticket. 1049 00:52:14,426 --> 00:52:16,470 So, he came back. 1050 00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:19,723 He was a little upset for a few days. Then after that-- 1051 00:52:19,723 --> 00:52:21,600 "Why are people are like this, Mommy?" 1052 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,436 I said, "You know, there are different kind of people. 1053 00:52:24,436 --> 00:52:27,689 So, in your life you will see lot of thing." 1054 00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:35,864 JAMES: "Park Avenue Peerage, February 5, 2010. 1055 00:52:35,864 --> 00:52:39,409 "My website is soil in which I can sift through with my hands. 1056 00:52:40,536 --> 00:52:43,247 "This is my final post on Park Avenue Peerage. 1057 00:52:44,248 --> 00:52:45,999 "The last three years have been such a ride 1058 00:52:45,999 --> 00:52:47,960 "and I was very happy to entertain. 1059 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,130 "A great deal of people that come to PAP are here for Tinsley Mortimer. 1060 00:52:52,130 --> 00:52:55,008 "Mostly, I'd like to thank my readers. 1061 00:52:55,008 --> 00:52:57,553 "I'm no longer fascinated by this world. 1062 00:52:58,136 --> 00:53:02,140 "I'm not impressed. In fact, I'm depressed. 1063 00:53:02,140 --> 00:53:04,852 God bless, James." 1064 00:53:07,479 --> 00:53:09,106 TINSLEY: My name is Tinsley Mortimer. 1065 00:53:09,106 --> 00:53:12,150 ♪ All the Right Moves by OneRepublic playing ♪ 1066 00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:13,735 People call me a socialite. 1067 00:53:13,735 --> 00:53:15,487 ♪ So, yeah, we're goin' down ♪ 1068 00:53:15,487 --> 00:53:17,948 PAUL JOHNSON CALDERON: It really is a rat race in the New York social world. 1069 00:53:17,948 --> 00:53:19,116 ♪ 1070 00:53:19,116 --> 00:53:23,954 High Society was definitely not... the show that wa-- it was set out to be. 1071 00:53:24,246 --> 00:53:25,414 But the real story... 1072 00:53:25,414 --> 00:53:29,209 Reality TV was a little too early. People were very judgmental. 1073 00:53:29,209 --> 00:53:30,460 The economic crash, 1074 00:53:30,460 --> 00:53:32,254 it really kind of happened, like, around then 1075 00:53:32,254 --> 00:53:36,383 and people didn't want to see people having some glamorous-y type of life. 1076 00:53:36,383 --> 00:53:38,635 That also wasn't really what the show was supposed to be about. 1077 00:53:38,635 --> 00:53:42,890 It wasn't supposed to look like we are total brats in, like, this world, 1078 00:53:42,890 --> 00:53:47,060 it-- but it kind of elevated that and pushed that as a, as a thing. 1079 00:53:47,060 --> 00:53:49,688 So, it was terrifying. 1080 00:53:49,688 --> 00:53:50,647 We will never be friends now. 1081 00:53:50,856 --> 00:53:53,358 I just pulled back tremendously afterwards. 1082 00:53:53,358 --> 00:53:54,818 I-- It was-- I was burnt out. 1083 00:53:54,818 --> 00:53:58,071 I mean, that, mixed with all the other stuff I had done, 1084 00:53:58,071 --> 00:54:01,074 all that stuff I just thought I just need to take a break, 1085 00:54:01,074 --> 00:54:03,243 um, and I just didn't really do much for a while. 1086 00:54:04,161 --> 00:54:06,496 So, I don't remember communicating with James so much 1087 00:54:06,496 --> 00:54:09,416 while-- I mean, I think even after it was over, 1088 00:54:09,416 --> 00:54:12,419 we still were friends and I was still talking to him. 1089 00:54:13,086 --> 00:54:15,214 And then I just lost touch with him. 1090 00:54:16,423 --> 00:54:19,259 ZACKARY: Why did your friendship with Tinsley end? 1091 00:54:19,259 --> 00:54:20,969 I don't believe it ended. 1092 00:54:21,428 --> 00:54:23,555 Um, I think it just paused for a little bit. 1093 00:54:23,555 --> 00:54:27,100 She had a television show that she had been working on, 1094 00:54:27,100 --> 00:54:31,897 um, that took a very-- it took her away from a lot of her friends 1095 00:54:32,481 --> 00:54:36,735 and that's why, you know, we didn't really stay in communication. 1096 00:54:37,486 --> 00:54:41,240 In this weird way, like, I was a member of that world 1097 00:54:41,240 --> 00:54:43,325 and she was a dear friend of mine 1098 00:54:43,325 --> 00:54:47,329 and... I felt like I was no longer important. 1099 00:54:48,705 --> 00:54:52,501 And... that was very, like, hurtful 1100 00:54:53,585 --> 00:54:55,254 because, like, 1101 00:54:56,839 --> 00:54:58,257 it wasn't that I looked up to her, 1102 00:54:58,257 --> 00:55:01,635 it was just that, like, she depended so much on me 1103 00:55:01,635 --> 00:55:04,888 and then all of a sudden, it was like she just didn't care. 1104 00:55:07,015 --> 00:55:10,644 ♪ 1105 00:55:10,644 --> 00:55:11,895 I'd flunked out of U of I 1106 00:55:11,895 --> 00:55:14,606 because I had been so focused on New York. 1107 00:55:18,068 --> 00:55:22,114 I went from weighing, like, you know, 200-something to a 100-something, 1108 00:55:22,114 --> 00:55:25,284 but doing it all through starvation and cocaine usage. 1109 00:55:27,995 --> 00:55:32,457 CASEY: It was, yeah, pills and cocaine and ecstasy. 1110 00:55:33,667 --> 00:55:37,045 It became apparent more and more as we kept hanging out. 1111 00:55:38,338 --> 00:55:40,048 And at the same time also 1112 00:55:40,048 --> 00:55:45,846 he was very into someone named Tommy. 1113 00:55:46,847 --> 00:55:50,434 MORGAN: "Tommy. 07/24/10. 1114 00:55:50,434 --> 00:55:51,894 "I guess I'm getting desperate 1115 00:55:51,894 --> 00:55:55,022 because I emailed that hot drug dealer last night." 1116 00:55:55,022 --> 00:56:00,402 He was like the skateboarder, pot grower, tattoo artist, bad boy, 1117 00:56:00,402 --> 00:56:01,820 and we just kind of clicked. 1118 00:56:02,446 --> 00:56:05,490 "When he met me, he gave me $40 in cash 1119 00:56:05,490 --> 00:56:09,119 "and $40 worth of the best weed in town. 1120 00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:13,332 "He also promised to give me free ecstasy pills, lol. 1121 00:56:13,332 --> 00:56:17,628 "He claims he's straight and looks and acts very straight. 1122 00:56:17,628 --> 00:56:22,549 But for some reason, the waxing moon, I thought of him last night." 1123 00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:26,136 I didn't get the impression that they hung out necessarily. 1124 00:56:26,136 --> 00:56:30,182 It was just more James kind of like lusting after him. 1125 00:56:30,849 --> 00:56:33,101 MORGAN: "07/23/11. 1126 00:56:33,101 --> 00:56:37,397 "We've never kissed, you've never held my hand. 1127 00:56:37,397 --> 00:56:41,985 I've never given so much of myself to anyone or anything." 1128 00:56:42,653 --> 00:56:44,321 CASEY: James latched on 1129 00:56:44,321 --> 00:56:48,158 and it got to a point where the obsession was a lot. 1130 00:56:48,158 --> 00:56:49,618 It was a lot. It was a lot to hear. 1131 00:56:49,618 --> 00:56:53,372 It was a lot to see my friend obsessing over someone 1132 00:56:53,372 --> 00:56:56,333 who clearly had no interest in him at all, 1133 00:56:56,333 --> 00:56:59,461 but was willing to accept anything that James gave. 1134 00:56:59,837 --> 00:57:03,590 He took credit cards out and was doing cash advances 1135 00:57:03,590 --> 00:57:07,386 and, um, giving envelopes of money, 1136 00:57:07,386 --> 00:57:10,055 just leaving it on Tommy's doorstep. 1137 00:57:10,055 --> 00:57:13,183 You know, at that time I had, um-- I was very free 1138 00:57:13,183 --> 00:57:16,562 with, like, things that I had access to, like funds and things. 1139 00:57:16,562 --> 00:57:19,565 And I found that he was misappropriating 1140 00:57:19,565 --> 00:57:21,942 a lot of the funds that I had made available to him 1141 00:57:21,942 --> 00:57:26,989 and using them in... not... good ways. 1142 00:57:26,989 --> 00:57:28,949 ZACKARY: Where'd the money come from? 1143 00:57:29,658 --> 00:57:32,828 I was borrowing against my own inheritance. 1144 00:57:33,787 --> 00:57:38,417 So, um, it was like funds that were appropriated for me eventually, 1145 00:57:38,417 --> 00:57:40,752 but I was just taking it really early on. 1146 00:57:40,752 --> 00:57:42,087 [giggles] 1147 00:57:42,087 --> 00:57:43,130 ZACKARY: From your parents? 1148 00:57:43,130 --> 00:57:44,590 Yeah. 1149 00:57:44,590 --> 00:57:48,719 It was like $300,000 when I was, like, 19 years old. You know? 1150 00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:52,723 ZACKARY: Did that affect your parents' finances? 1151 00:57:52,723 --> 00:57:55,058 Did they file for bankruptcy? 1152 00:57:56,059 --> 00:57:57,728 Uh, yeah, they did. 1153 00:58:03,609 --> 00:58:05,444 CASEY: I was really confused by it 1154 00:58:05,444 --> 00:58:08,697 and no matter how much I said, like, "You need to stop. 1155 00:58:08,697 --> 00:58:12,701 Like, stop giving him money. Like, just leave it alone, move on," 1156 00:58:12,701 --> 00:58:14,745 it, it didn't really matter. 1157 00:58:14,745 --> 00:58:19,958 It really sucked because I knew who he could be. 1158 00:58:19,958 --> 00:58:22,669 I knew who we were together, like, how much fun we had, 1159 00:58:22,669 --> 00:58:24,379 how carefree we were, 1160 00:58:24,379 --> 00:58:27,883 how creative he was, and how charismatic he was. 1161 00:58:27,883 --> 00:58:32,721 Like, he could make friends with anyone just, like, win anybody over. 1162 00:58:32,721 --> 00:58:38,519 But at that time, it was Tommy and pills and cocaine and ecstasy 1163 00:58:38,519 --> 00:58:40,187 to the point where-- 1164 00:58:42,064 --> 00:58:46,527 Yeah, I guess that was, like, the catalyst to ending our friendship. Yeah. 1165 00:58:50,656 --> 00:58:53,408 MORGAN: And it just made me, like, not want to write anymore, 1166 00:58:53,408 --> 00:58:54,618 be myself anymore. 1167 00:58:54,618 --> 00:58:56,995 It just made me really want to shut down. 1168 00:58:58,622 --> 00:59:00,791 I overdosed three times that 1169 00:59:00,791 --> 00:59:03,919 I was hospitalized three times that summer. 1170 00:59:03,919 --> 00:59:06,171 I'd reached a weight that was so low. 1171 00:59:06,171 --> 00:59:10,717 I wasn't eating just because I was so sad by the situation that I was in. 1172 00:59:10,717 --> 00:59:13,512 Like, the one choice that I made as a free adult, 1173 00:59:14,263 --> 00:59:18,350 was a really bad choice and I really felt that, so 1174 00:59:24,565 --> 00:59:26,024 it's really fucking painful. 1175 00:59:26,024 --> 00:59:28,318 Like, I feel like I'm gonna break down right now. 1176 00:59:28,318 --> 00:59:30,404 [inhales, deep exhale] 1177 00:59:30,404 --> 00:59:31,905 ZACKARY: Thank you so much. 1178 00:59:31,905 --> 00:59:34,533 Of course. I did not know you even knew about that stuff. 1179 00:59:34,533 --> 00:59:36,535 - What? - That whole "Tommy" shit. 1180 00:59:36,535 --> 00:59:38,745 I did not know you guys were going to bring that up. 1181 00:59:38,745 --> 00:59:40,080 - It's okay. - The bankruptcy stuff. 1182 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,040 Oh, my God. I'm so embarrassed. 1183 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,169 - It's not embarrassing. - I feel like fucking crying right now. 1184 00:59:45,169 --> 00:59:47,087 Like, I'm so ashamed of that shit. 1185 00:59:47,087 --> 00:59:48,463 You don't have to be, girl. 1186 00:59:48,463 --> 00:59:51,008 - I am. - It's a no-shame zone. 1187 00:59:51,008 --> 00:59:53,427 And, you know, things happen to us, and-- 1188 00:59:53,427 --> 00:59:55,304 MORGAN: Like, I made some stupid-ass choices. 1189 00:59:55,304 --> 00:59:57,139 That's fucking pathetic and sad. 1190 00:59:57,139 --> 01:00:01,393 It's not. It's naive, but young people are naive. 1191 01:00:02,853 --> 01:00:05,480 Yeah, I keep forgetting I was like 18 years old. 1192 01:00:05,981 --> 01:00:09,860 I didn't-- I never had a boyfriend before that. You know? [laughs] 1193 01:00:10,485 --> 01:00:12,946 - Yeah. - But still... 1194 01:00:12,946 --> 01:00:15,490 It's all in your writing. 1195 01:00:15,490 --> 01:00:18,410 In your-- In a way, you know, it's like a-- you can tell. 1196 01:00:18,410 --> 01:00:21,121 - What do you mean? - That you were being taken advantage of. 1197 01:00:21,121 --> 01:00:22,748 That you were in love. 1198 01:00:22,748 --> 01:00:25,626 - Aw. [inaudible] you a crown. - You know? 1199 01:00:25,626 --> 01:00:26,835 [Zackary chuckles] 1200 01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:29,922 It's hard to, like, answer to someone. 1201 01:00:29,922 --> 01:00:31,507 It's hard to answer on film. 1202 01:00:31,507 --> 01:00:33,675 It's hard to answer to an audience 1203 01:00:33,675 --> 01:00:36,929 that's not even aware of these sins that I'd committed. You know? 1204 01:00:36,929 --> 01:00:39,515 I did cheat my family. I did cheat my parents. 1205 01:00:39,515 --> 01:00:41,642 I did lie to them. 1206 01:00:41,642 --> 01:00:44,144 I'd never forgiven myself for that. 1207 01:00:46,522 --> 01:00:48,315 I hope that you will. 1208 01:00:48,315 --> 01:00:49,816 - Yeah. - Yeah. 1209 01:00:49,816 --> 01:00:54,530 I hope that looking at those things and letting them exist in the light 1210 01:00:54,530 --> 01:00:58,401 allows them to diminish the power that it has. 1211 01:01:00,869 --> 01:01:03,247 ♪ upbeat music playing ♪ 1212 01:01:12,881 --> 01:01:16,426 ZACKARY: There she is... MORGAN: Hi. How are you? 1213 01:01:16,426 --> 01:01:20,055 ZACKARY: ...the light of my life. [laughs] Aw. 1214 01:01:20,055 --> 01:01:21,515 MORGAN: I literally just woke up right now. 1215 01:01:21,515 --> 01:01:24,434 ZACKARY: Ooh, girl. MORGAN: You have no idea. 1216 01:01:24,434 --> 01:01:27,104 Girl, okay, I'll do your makeup. 1217 01:01:27,104 --> 01:01:29,898 - MORGAN: Okay, cool. - I have breakfast for you. 1218 01:01:29,898 --> 01:01:32,234 MORGAN: Oh! ZACKARY: We'll do it in here. 1219 01:01:32,234 --> 01:01:33,318 MORGAN: Okay. 1220 01:01:34,486 --> 01:01:35,946 ZACKARY: Do you know your neighbor? 1221 01:01:35,946 --> 01:01:41,451 This lady above me was like, "I can't live in such a space." 1222 01:01:41,451 --> 01:01:44,371 I'd only have, like, two or three guys come in every night. 1223 01:01:44,371 --> 01:01:47,958 It wasn't like I was having, like, an orgy every fucking day. 1224 01:01:49,334 --> 01:01:52,254 Gone. Like, how has my life fallen? ZACKARY: Yeah. 1225 01:01:52,254 --> 01:01:55,090 MORGAN: Because I fell in love with that guy, Tommy. 1226 01:01:55,090 --> 01:01:57,176 How did that go? 1227 01:01:57,176 --> 01:02:00,679 This is why I do fucking decrepit things like sex work and shit, 1228 01:02:00,679 --> 01:02:02,514 'cause I don't get money otherwise. 1229 01:02:03,307 --> 01:02:05,267 I didn't start doing this until I was-- 1230 01:02:05,267 --> 01:02:10,314 I realized that my parents weren't ever giving money again-- 1231 01:02:10,314 --> 01:02:12,983 ZACKARY: So, when, when you're putting these 1232 01:02:12,983 --> 01:02:17,905 in this whole photo gallery together, like, what is the story, 1233 01:02:17,905 --> 01:02:19,072 in your mind? 1234 01:02:19,072 --> 01:02:22,326 MORGAN: Here's like, this really beautiful girl who's like a princess, 1235 01:02:22,326 --> 01:02:24,161 and then you have a little bio. 1236 01:02:24,161 --> 01:02:27,831 ZACKARY: "Baby girl. Your dream cum true." C-U-M. 1237 01:02:27,831 --> 01:02:31,126 "Gorgeous, sweet, and a true prince--" See, I've always known 1238 01:02:31,126 --> 01:02:34,338 [Morgan laughing] your brilliant writing 1239 01:02:34,338 --> 01:02:40,093 is, like, being... used in clandestine places. 1240 01:02:40,093 --> 01:02:42,971 "College educated, former fashion model... 1241 01:02:42,971 --> 01:02:46,767 - Oh! This is true. - ...with 38DDD breasts." [laughs] 1242 01:02:46,767 --> 01:02:49,895 This is true. I have, like, I have 950CC bras. 1243 01:02:49,895 --> 01:02:52,689 "And the biggest booty known to man. 1244 01:02:52,689 --> 01:02:55,108 You will join me again and again and again." 1245 01:02:55,108 --> 01:02:56,235 Woo! 1246 01:02:57,027 --> 01:03:00,197 ZACKARY: "Classy and elegant, but wild and freaky. 1247 01:03:00,197 --> 01:03:05,244 The knockout girl of your dreams is here, motherfuckers." 1248 01:03:05,244 --> 01:03:06,912 You have to lie just a little. 1249 01:03:06,912 --> 01:03:09,081 Okay, well, you're not 24. 1250 01:03:09,081 --> 01:03:11,667 Okay, whatever. That's my hoe age. 1251 01:03:11,667 --> 01:03:15,295 You say that you're 5'9" here and you say you're 5'7" here. 1252 01:03:15,295 --> 01:03:18,674 Whatever. These guys are not noticing discrepancies. 1253 01:03:18,674 --> 01:03:21,093 And right behind here, I keep my journal. 1254 01:03:23,178 --> 01:03:26,223 ZACKARY: Oh, you wrote. You've been writing? 1255 01:03:26,223 --> 01:03:27,432 MORGAN: Kind of. 1256 01:03:27,432 --> 01:03:30,519 This is actual writing. On the page. 1257 01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:34,690 "There was this beautiful, haunted, charmed life I led 1258 01:03:34,690 --> 01:03:39,486 "in the... confines of New York so quickly and ardently 1259 01:03:39,486 --> 01:03:40,863 "and they embraced me. 1260 01:03:40,863 --> 01:03:46,493 "So natural a fit, it felt no training could prep them for me. 1261 01:03:46,493 --> 01:03:51,039 "To see some nearly all resolute to brute-based behavior-- 1262 01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:52,666 - Mm-hm. - "reaction, 1263 01:03:52,666 --> 01:03:56,753 made me see the carnivorous mammal in them." 1264 01:03:56,753 --> 01:03:59,339 T. S. Eliot would be so lucky. 1265 01:03:59,339 --> 01:04:01,967 [both laughing] 1266 01:04:02,718 --> 01:04:04,178 What's this one? 1267 01:04:04,178 --> 01:04:07,389 "Dear Tinsley, thank you for being the kaleidoscope 1268 01:04:07,389 --> 01:04:09,474 "through which I saw the world. 1269 01:04:09,474 --> 01:04:11,643 "Thank you for being my friend. 1270 01:04:11,643 --> 01:04:15,981 "Thank you for teaching me about, and sharing with me 1271 01:04:15,981 --> 01:04:18,984 "the evolution of fantasy to reality. 1272 01:04:19,610 --> 01:04:24,031 Blonds always have more fun. Nothing can stop us." 1273 01:04:25,115 --> 01:04:27,451 'Cause at the time, I felt like a lot of her life 1274 01:04:27,451 --> 01:04:29,912 - was like, being red-lighted. - Yeah. 1275 01:04:29,912 --> 01:04:32,456 Like, she couldn't be who she wanted to be. 1276 01:04:32,956 --> 01:04:34,249 - Yeah. - And I-I really-- 1277 01:04:34,249 --> 01:04:36,043 I always related to her on that respect. 1278 01:04:36,043 --> 01:04:38,378 Like, she really just wanted to be someone else 1279 01:04:38,378 --> 01:04:40,714 that the world wouldn't let her be. 1280 01:04:41,048 --> 01:04:43,967 ♪ somber music playing ♪ 1281 01:04:48,222 --> 01:04:51,350 COURI: So, at some point, Tinsley stopped listening 1282 01:04:52,643 --> 01:04:55,604 and she decided to become self-directed. 1283 01:04:55,604 --> 01:04:58,815 And this-- I believe that without proper guidance 1284 01:04:58,815 --> 01:05:00,776 it can go all wrong. 1285 01:05:00,776 --> 01:05:02,361 It's like driving drunk. 1286 01:05:02,361 --> 01:05:04,988 It's just not advisable. 1287 01:05:06,281 --> 01:05:07,616 And so, I let her go. 1288 01:05:07,616 --> 01:05:12,621 I let her off-leash and I regret it because I think I could've guided her 1289 01:05:12,621 --> 01:05:15,582 through what I think was her eventual downfall. 1290 01:05:15,582 --> 01:05:18,335 I mean, let's face it, no one went higher 1291 01:05:18,335 --> 01:05:20,379 and fell further down than Tinsley. 1292 01:05:20,379 --> 01:05:23,924 What was she arrested on the lawn of a boyfriend? 1293 01:05:23,924 --> 01:05:26,218 Uh, you know, a fancy boyfriend at that. 1294 01:05:28,011 --> 01:05:31,515 REPORTER: In April of 2016, Mortimer was arrested for trespassing 1295 01:05:31,515 --> 01:05:33,851 at the Palm Beach home of her ex-boyfriend, 1296 01:05:33,851 --> 01:05:35,811 Alexander "Nico" Fanjul. 1297 01:05:35,811 --> 01:05:39,523 A day later, the news went public and her mugshot became tabloid fodder. 1298 01:05:39,523 --> 01:05:42,150 We got in a big fight and I couldn't get my bag back. 1299 01:05:42,150 --> 01:05:44,695 So I, I called the police to help me get the bag back. 1300 01:05:44,695 --> 01:05:46,947 That's when I found out that they could arrest me 1301 01:05:46,947 --> 01:05:49,241 for being on the property, which was complete shock to me. 1302 01:05:49,241 --> 01:05:52,286 Public records show authorities have been to the Fanjul home 1303 01:05:52,286 --> 01:05:53,829 to break up savage fights. 1304 01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:56,039 After one on Christmas 2013, 1305 01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:58,750 Mortimer was hospitalized with head lacerations. 1306 01:05:59,710 --> 01:06:01,003 TINSLEY: That relationship ended. 1307 01:06:01,003 --> 01:06:03,505 And it ended up putting me in a place in my life 1308 01:06:03,505 --> 01:06:07,092 that I was so low and felt that, 1309 01:06:07,092 --> 01:06:10,721 you know, I was so unfairly sort of accused of this situation 1310 01:06:10,721 --> 01:06:11,972 that really was not the truth. 1311 01:06:11,972 --> 01:06:14,558 And again, in that position where you're like, 1312 01:06:14,558 --> 01:06:16,602 the press is saying one thing, this is not the truth. 1313 01:06:16,602 --> 01:06:18,520 And you sort of feel like you're fighting for your life 1314 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:19,897 and you're trying to explain yourself. 1315 01:06:19,897 --> 01:06:20,898 [indistinct chatter] 1316 01:06:20,898 --> 01:06:22,482 - PERSON 1: I like your outfit. - Thank you. 1317 01:06:22,482 --> 01:06:24,234 - PERSON 2: Look nice today, Tinsley. - Thanks. 1318 01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:28,197 Looking back now to all the things that I did, 1319 01:06:28,197 --> 01:06:30,324 it was so glamorous and fun 1320 01:06:30,324 --> 01:06:33,410 and a lot of, you know, things have been tough, a little bit recently. 1321 01:06:33,410 --> 01:06:36,288 And so, um, it's nice to see that girl that was, like, super confident 1322 01:06:36,288 --> 01:06:39,208 and, um, it's-- it has-- it's been nice to kind of 1323 01:06:39,208 --> 01:06:42,753 try to remember that girl and to, hopefully, 1324 01:06:42,753 --> 01:06:44,671 you know, do something like that again. 1325 01:06:44,671 --> 01:06:45,797 [sniffles] 1326 01:06:45,797 --> 01:06:46,965 Sorry. 1327 01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:52,638 KELLY: This concept of fame, it's a burden. 1328 01:06:52,638 --> 01:06:54,681 Just because somebody's pretty and a size two 1329 01:06:54,681 --> 01:06:56,433 and they have a hundred million dollars-- 1330 01:06:56,934 --> 01:07:00,979 I hate to say it, but I mean there have been plenty of socialites, 1331 01:07:00,979 --> 01:07:05,692 you know, who've died, like unfortunately, you know, that appear to have everything. 1332 01:07:05,692 --> 01:07:07,194 And then they're still unhappy. 1333 01:07:07,194 --> 01:07:10,405 [indistinct chatter] 1334 01:07:10,405 --> 01:07:14,409 REPORTER: She was young, beautiful, and an heiress to an empire. 1335 01:07:14,409 --> 01:07:18,914 Now, Casey Johnson's sudden death has many asking how and why. 1336 01:07:19,748 --> 01:07:24,461 COURI: Casey Johnson is the saddest socialite story 1337 01:07:24,461 --> 01:07:26,296 that has ever been written. 1338 01:07:26,296 --> 01:07:28,215 It was about too much money. 1339 01:07:28,215 --> 01:07:30,801 Casey just couldn't control herself. 1340 01:07:31,510 --> 01:07:34,596 BEN: Casey was the daughter of the Johnson & Johnson empire. 1341 01:07:34,596 --> 01:07:37,933 Her father, Woody Johnson, owner of the Jets football team, 1342 01:07:37,933 --> 01:07:40,102 later Trump's ambassador to London. 1343 01:07:40,102 --> 01:07:41,854 Very big, very powerful family. 1344 01:07:42,437 --> 01:07:45,524 When the concept for The Simple Life was first mooted, 1345 01:07:45,524 --> 01:07:49,152 it was going to be Paris Hilton and Casey Johnson as the second girl. 1346 01:07:49,152 --> 01:07:51,280 And Casey decided not to do it 1347 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:54,366 because she wanted to move to Los Angeles and become a serious actress. 1348 01:07:54,366 --> 01:07:57,286 And she said later that she regretting that decision. 1349 01:07:57,286 --> 01:07:59,997 PHOTOGRAPHER 1: Ladies! PHOTOGRAPHER 2: To your right, ladies. To the right, please! 1350 01:07:59,997 --> 01:08:02,541 BEN: She was bisexual. She had many girlfriends in Los Angeles. 1351 01:08:02,541 --> 01:08:06,545 She hooked up with Tila Tequila, who was a reality star of the moment. 1352 01:08:06,545 --> 01:08:10,716 And the two made a number of very flashy, quite vulgar appearances on red carpets, 1353 01:08:10,716 --> 01:08:12,926 which of course, they lapped up. 1354 01:08:12,926 --> 01:08:14,094 Unfortunately, at the time, 1355 01:08:14,094 --> 01:08:17,097 she was also using drugs and alcohol to excess. 1356 01:08:17,097 --> 01:08:20,309 [indistinct chatter] 1357 01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:23,520 BEN: And unfortunately, not long afterwards, she died in her bed 1358 01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,731 because she wasn't monitoring her health conditions. 1359 01:08:25,731 --> 01:08:27,191 PERSON: Hi, ladies. 1360 01:08:27,191 --> 01:08:29,401 KELLY: She never told people that she was a Johnson. 1361 01:08:29,401 --> 01:08:32,404 She was just this cool, little, blonde girl who was, like, super dope, 1362 01:08:32,404 --> 01:08:35,115 who was, like, a total troublemaker. 1363 01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:37,492 I don't know why I'm crying about her. 1364 01:08:37,492 --> 01:08:39,620 She was the coolest girl ever, right? 1365 01:08:39,620 --> 01:08:43,874 So... I don't think that happiness and money or the way that you look 1366 01:08:43,874 --> 01:08:45,459 has anything to do with any of it. 1367 01:08:45,459 --> 01:08:47,044 I think it's a big lie. 1368 01:08:50,047 --> 01:08:53,550 EMILY: So, about halfway through my Gawker career, 1369 01:08:53,550 --> 01:08:55,219 my year at Gawker, 1370 01:08:55,219 --> 01:08:59,890 I was asked to be a guest on an episode of Larry King Live 1371 01:08:59,890 --> 01:09:02,267 that was being guest hosted by Jimmy Kimmel. 1372 01:09:02,267 --> 01:09:05,604 JIMMY KIMMEL: Emily Gould. She's the editor of the website Gawker.com. 1373 01:09:05,604 --> 01:09:07,773 - Hello, Emily. - Hi, Jimmy. 1374 01:09:07,773 --> 01:09:12,152 And it turned out that Jimmy Kimmel had some very specific beef with Gawker. 1375 01:09:12,152 --> 01:09:14,613 Gawker had written about him in a way that he didn't like. 1376 01:09:14,613 --> 01:09:19,117 My problem is, uh, you post things that simply aren't true on, on the site, 1377 01:09:19,117 --> 01:09:22,079 and you do no checking on your stories whatsoever. 1378 01:09:22,079 --> 01:09:23,330 I'll give you an example. 1379 01:09:23,330 --> 01:09:26,959 There was a story about me that popped up on my Google search. 1380 01:09:26,959 --> 01:09:28,877 It said, "Daily Gawker Stalker: 1381 01:09:28,877 --> 01:09:31,755 When Isn't Jimmy Kimmel Visibly Intoxicated?" 1382 01:09:31,755 --> 01:09:35,884 The Gawker tip line was just flooded with so many people 1383 01:09:35,884 --> 01:09:39,179 just wanting to tell me what an idiotic, 1384 01:09:39,179 --> 01:09:43,392 teenage, stupid... whore I was. 1385 01:09:43,392 --> 01:09:47,604 And how dare I besmirch the name of Jimmy Kimmel? 1386 01:09:47,604 --> 01:09:51,316 Honestly, I think that there's a shifting definition of what is public 1387 01:09:51,316 --> 01:09:54,486 and what is private space for everyone, not just celebrities. 1388 01:09:54,486 --> 01:09:56,697 The internet, blogs, Myspace. 1389 01:09:56,697 --> 01:09:59,783 No one has the reasonable expectation of being able to walk down the street 1390 01:09:59,783 --> 01:10:02,870 and not have what they're doing be noticed by someone anymore. 1391 01:10:02,870 --> 01:10:05,497 Well, that's just-- that is just a terrible thing though, isn't it? 1392 01:10:05,497 --> 01:10:06,957 - I mean, just-- - Is it really? 1393 01:10:06,957 --> 01:10:08,208 - Yeah, it is. - I mean, I think it's great 1394 01:10:08,208 --> 01:10:09,710 that we're not putting people up on a pedestal 1395 01:10:09,710 --> 01:10:10,961 and worshiping them anymore. 1396 01:10:10,961 --> 01:10:12,629 I think it's good that people are acknowledging 1397 01:10:12,629 --> 01:10:14,882 - that celebrities are real people. - Yeah, you're throwing rocks at them though. 1398 01:10:14,882 --> 01:10:17,634 - I mean, that's not-- - It's not okay to say false things about anyone. 1399 01:10:17,634 --> 01:10:19,636 - I'm not talking about-- - Well, you should check your website then. 1400 01:10:19,636 --> 01:10:21,054 Thank you for, uh, talking to us. 1401 01:10:21,054 --> 01:10:23,849 Anderson Cooper 360's on at the top of the hour. Filling in-- 1402 01:10:23,849 --> 01:10:25,934 EMILY: I just had, like, a mini nervous breakdown 1403 01:10:25,934 --> 01:10:29,021 and couldn't go to work, 1404 01:10:29,021 --> 01:10:31,857 like, couldn't really make myself do anything. 1405 01:10:32,608 --> 01:10:36,361 After I stopped working at Gawker, I became a target of Gawker. 1406 01:10:36,361 --> 01:10:39,656 It would be funny if it hadn't been so, you know, 1407 01:10:39,656 --> 01:10:42,784 the same punishment will be visit on, on you 1408 01:10:42,784 --> 01:10:44,745 that you dished out to so many people. 1409 01:10:44,745 --> 01:10:47,122 You know, and I eventually sort of had a lot of therapy 1410 01:10:47,122 --> 01:10:48,749 and in some way got over it. 1411 01:10:48,749 --> 01:10:50,417 But it's something that has still like-- 1412 01:10:51,793 --> 01:10:55,589 I'm clearly not like, totally okay. And it's 15 years on. 1413 01:10:57,424 --> 01:11:02,179 [slight chuckle] Oh, what is this? Wait, what is it? Oh-- 1414 01:11:02,179 --> 01:11:06,808 - ZACKARY: It's Morgan. - Oh! [gasps] Oh, my God. 1415 01:11:06,808 --> 01:11:11,522 She is so... pretty. I gotta send her some of my lashes. 1416 01:11:11,522 --> 01:11:14,650 Oh, my God. That's-- I mean, I-- Do-- I was like, "Who?" 1417 01:11:14,650 --> 01:11:19,112 I mean, no way. No way. 1418 01:11:19,112 --> 01:11:22,616 Oh, my God. Gorgeous. 1419 01:11:22,616 --> 01:11:24,785 Look at her lips and everything. Oh, my God, she's so pretty. Oh, my God. 1420 01:11:24,785 --> 01:11:28,288 I really want to meet her. I got to c-- I got to contact her. 1421 01:11:29,164 --> 01:11:35,128 That is insane. D-Did-- I mean... [softly] oh, my gosh. 1422 01:11:36,213 --> 01:11:40,008 So cute. Oh, my gosh. 1423 01:11:40,008 --> 01:11:43,345 Holy cow! Gorgeous. How-- Amazing! 1424 01:11:43,345 --> 01:11:46,598 I mean, sorry. I'm so shocked. 1425 01:11:46,598 --> 01:11:51,228 Wow! I mean the little cute boy that came over to me-- Oh, my God. 1426 01:11:51,228 --> 01:11:53,522 That's cra-- That's incredible. That's amazing. 1427 01:11:57,276 --> 01:11:58,986 [phone ringing] 1428 01:11:59,444 --> 01:12:01,071 TINSLEY [on phone]: Hello? 1429 01:12:01,071 --> 01:12:02,990 Hi, Tins. How are you? 1430 01:12:02,990 --> 01:12:04,074 Hi. 1431 01:12:04,074 --> 01:12:05,909 How are you? 1432 01:12:05,909 --> 01:12:06,869 Um, 1433 01:12:06,869 --> 01:12:09,872 - um, I mean, I've been-- - I missed you. 1434 01:12:09,872 --> 01:12:11,748 I've been better, but I've been well, 1435 01:12:11,748 --> 01:12:15,961 and it's so funny, I couldn't even believe that you are living in Chicago. 1436 01:12:15,961 --> 01:12:18,130 I mean, I would-- when I was living there a year ago, 1437 01:12:18,130 --> 01:12:20,841 it would've been nice to know and have a, a girlfriend there because... 1438 01:12:20,841 --> 01:12:23,177 - Yeah. - ...' cause I was there with barely anybody that I knew. 1439 01:12:23,177 --> 01:12:24,344 Really? 1440 01:12:24,344 --> 01:12:26,930 It would've been so fun to have you there. 1441 01:12:27,306 --> 01:12:28,348 That's so crazy. 1442 01:12:28,348 --> 01:12:30,809 No, I would've loved to have seen you back then, too. 1443 01:12:30,809 --> 01:12:32,561 - Where are you now? - I know. 1444 01:12:32,561 --> 01:12:35,397 Well, I mean, right now, um, since I left Chicago 1445 01:12:35,397 --> 01:12:39,359 because this, you know, whatever, it's, it's a long story-- 1446 01:12:39,359 --> 01:12:41,778 I'm so sorry to hear that, hon. TINSLEY: I-I know, it's-- 1447 01:12:41,778 --> 01:12:44,615 Hon, are you still hosting stuff? 1448 01:12:44,615 --> 01:12:46,533 I still do, um, a lot of-- 1449 01:12:46,533 --> 01:12:48,702 Yes. I still do a lot of different things. Hosting and stuff. 1450 01:12:48,702 --> 01:12:51,205 And a lot of the things, actually that I, I work with a lot of, 1451 01:12:51,205 --> 01:12:54,458 are animal shelters and, and rescues and things like that. 1452 01:12:54,458 --> 01:12:57,794 And actually, I'm coming to Chicago this week 1453 01:12:57,794 --> 01:13:00,255 and I'm going, um, because I'm coming-- 1454 01:13:00,255 --> 01:13:01,965 'Cause I still-- I work for PAWS Chicago. 1455 01:13:01,965 --> 01:13:03,592 I'm on their board of directors. 1456 01:13:03,592 --> 01:13:05,886 - Congratulations. That's amazing. - And they have this thing, um-- 1457 01:13:05,886 --> 01:13:08,096 Let me know how I can help you with that, okay? 1458 01:13:08,096 --> 01:13:10,265 Well, um, you can help me 1459 01:13:10,265 --> 01:13:13,977 because I would love for you to come with me to the event on Friday. 1460 01:13:13,977 --> 01:13:15,103 It's this Friday. 1461 01:13:15,103 --> 01:13:16,939 - Okay. - It's at the Drake Hotel. 1462 01:13:16,939 --> 01:13:19,441 - Lovely. - It's black tie, seated dinner, 1463 01:13:19,441 --> 01:13:20,859 um, dancing. 1464 01:13:20,859 --> 01:13:23,612 And, um, you can bring somebody, too. 1465 01:13:23,612 --> 01:13:25,030 I don't know if you're dating anybody now, 1466 01:13:25,030 --> 01:13:26,657 - but you can totally bring somebody. - I'm not. I just broke-- 1467 01:13:26,657 --> 01:13:28,158 - You're not? - I just broke up with someone. 1468 01:13:28,158 --> 01:13:30,410 Well, I'm not either, so great. [laughs] 1469 01:13:30,410 --> 01:13:31,453 Lovely. 1470 01:13:31,453 --> 01:13:32,788 We can just have fun. 1471 01:13:32,788 --> 01:13:35,332 Um, I am bringing my dogs, Strawberry and Shortcake, 1472 01:13:35,332 --> 01:13:37,668 because this event you can bring your dogs 1473 01:13:37,668 --> 01:13:40,921 and I'm dressing them up. They're basically gonna match me. 1474 01:13:40,921 --> 01:13:43,423 Yeah. Well, I'm so excited I get to see you. 1475 01:13:43,423 --> 01:13:46,134 - I know. I'm really excited to see you. - This is gonna be so fun. 1476 01:13:46,134 --> 01:13:49,096 It's gonna be our New York Times piece all over again, one-- 1477 01:13:49,096 --> 01:13:50,722 [Tinsley chuckles] Right? 1478 01:13:50,722 --> 01:13:54,059 Every time you and I unite, it's, it's always written about, I swear. 1479 01:13:54,059 --> 01:13:55,894 Yes. No, it-- That was so-- 1480 01:13:55,894 --> 01:13:57,271 [Morgan laughing] 1481 01:13:57,271 --> 01:13:59,064 That piece was so adorable. 1482 01:13:59,064 --> 01:14:00,148 Okay. Loves that. 1483 01:14:00,148 --> 01:14:01,733 - Looking forward to seeing you, okay? - Bye, babe. 1484 01:14:01,733 --> 01:14:03,569 - Mwah. Love you. - Okay, me too. Okay. Bye. 1485 01:14:03,569 --> 01:14:04,611 - Bye. - Bye. 1486 01:14:06,947 --> 01:14:10,409 Here you go. Thank you. 1487 01:14:10,409 --> 01:14:11,827 ZACKARY: What do you think? 1488 01:14:11,827 --> 01:14:14,872 I felt, I felt myself falling back into who I was before 1489 01:14:14,872 --> 01:14:18,500 in the sense of, like, I'm always, like, a support-supporting character 1490 01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:20,836 when I'm no longer a supporting character. 1491 01:14:20,836 --> 01:14:24,548 And I have to remind myself that I'm also, like, a lead. 1492 01:14:24,548 --> 01:14:25,757 [giggles] 1493 01:14:25,757 --> 01:14:28,010 I'm just thinking of, like, where I need to go 1494 01:14:28,010 --> 01:14:30,012 to, like, get, like, a nice gown. 1495 01:14:30,470 --> 01:14:35,058 'Cause, like, you know, I haven't made my Chicago debut. 1496 01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:37,603 ♪ uptempo music playing ♪ 1497 01:14:47,779 --> 01:14:49,072 Hi. 1498 01:14:49,072 --> 01:14:53,160 MZ NEON: Girl, ugh, finally. Wow. 1499 01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:54,620 Good to see you. Thank you. 1500 01:14:54,620 --> 01:14:57,206 - Bitch! - Do I look okay? 1501 01:14:57,206 --> 01:14:59,917 Girl, you're a vision. [Morgan gasps] 1502 01:14:59,917 --> 01:15:01,251 Thank you. 1503 01:15:01,251 --> 01:15:02,669 What's going on? 1504 01:15:02,669 --> 01:15:05,464 Ugh. Not much. I'm excited to see these looks, girl. 1505 01:15:08,133 --> 01:15:12,513 MZ NEON: Do you see yourself being trophy wife? 1506 01:15:12,513 --> 01:15:15,557 [Morgan chuckles] Or do you see yourself being, like, 1507 01:15:15,557 --> 01:15:16,892 the boss bitch? 1508 01:15:16,892 --> 01:15:18,644 What's the dream? Like-- 1509 01:15:18,644 --> 01:15:22,397 I would love to inspire others to live their best truths. 1510 01:15:22,397 --> 01:15:25,359 - Right, which you're already doing. - And that could be, 1511 01:15:25,359 --> 01:15:27,152 and that could be, like, a beauty line. 1512 01:15:27,152 --> 01:15:29,321 - Hm. - That could be skincare line. 1513 01:15:29,321 --> 01:15:31,657 - Hm. - That could be hair extension line. 1514 01:15:31,657 --> 01:15:33,075 - Hm! - That could be a dress line. 1515 01:15:33,075 --> 01:15:34,993 - Right. - That could be so many different-- 1516 01:15:34,993 --> 01:15:36,578 It could manifest in so many ways. 1517 01:15:37,871 --> 01:15:41,083 D-Do you see yourself ever getting married? 1518 01:15:41,083 --> 01:15:42,334 MORGAN: Yeah. 1519 01:15:42,334 --> 01:15:44,378 - I could see that for you. - Really? 1520 01:15:44,378 --> 01:15:45,546 Yeah. 1521 01:15:45,546 --> 01:15:50,008 Have you ever thought about what your wedding announcement would say, 1522 01:15:50,008 --> 01:15:51,301 - like, in the newspaper? - Oh, yeah. 1523 01:15:51,301 --> 01:15:53,679 I have written it, like, so many times. 1524 01:15:53,679 --> 01:15:54,763 - Really? - Yeah. 1525 01:15:54,763 --> 01:15:56,139 Okay. What is it? 1526 01:15:56,139 --> 01:16:00,018 It's like, "So-and-so, son of such-and-such 1527 01:16:00,018 --> 01:16:03,814 "was married yesterday to Morgan Olivia Rose, 1528 01:16:03,814 --> 01:16:06,149 the daughter of no one." 1529 01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:07,693 Word! [Morgan laughs] 1530 01:16:07,693 --> 01:16:12,447 And then it's like, "The bridegroom, 20 or 30-something, 1531 01:16:12,447 --> 01:16:14,783 is a graduate of Harvard College." 1532 01:16:18,620 --> 01:16:21,540 "Mrs.--" You know, 'cause it's a wedding announcement 1533 01:16:21,540 --> 01:16:23,542 with my new last name. 1534 01:16:23,542 --> 01:16:25,961 And it has my age. No one has to know my age. 1535 01:16:27,129 --> 01:16:31,550 "...is a former transsexual prostitute and film star." 1536 01:16:31,550 --> 01:16:33,719 [laughs] 1537 01:16:36,305 --> 01:16:38,807 MZ NEON: It's so important to show your story 1538 01:16:38,807 --> 01:16:42,519 and to show that with all of our stories, 1539 01:16:42,519 --> 01:16:45,898 like, we're not all one thing. 1540 01:16:45,898 --> 01:16:49,985 We exist outside whatever boxes people want to put us in. 1541 01:16:54,990 --> 01:16:56,992 ZACKARY: What's next for you, Tinsley? 1542 01:16:58,076 --> 01:16:59,953 You know when people ask you what you do or things or what do you want to do? 1543 01:16:59,953 --> 01:17:01,246 It's like, I don't really know what to say. 1544 01:17:01,246 --> 01:17:03,332 Sometimes you just, like, give, like, a generic answer. Like-- 1545 01:17:03,332 --> 01:17:05,584 Actually, it's the same answer I give now. 1546 01:17:05,584 --> 01:17:07,753 I say, "I just want to be a housewife." 1547 01:17:07,753 --> 01:17:09,087 A real housewife. 1548 01:17:09,087 --> 01:17:12,257 Not a, "Real housewife," but a real housewife. [laughs] 1549 01:17:12,257 --> 01:17:15,636 Because, I mean, in a w-- I mean, I don't only want to talk about 1550 01:17:15,636 --> 01:17:17,429 all of my business stuff I want to do and things, 1551 01:17:17,429 --> 01:17:20,140 but I also do want to have a child and be a housewife. 1552 01:17:20,140 --> 01:17:24,144 A real one. Anyway. Sorry. Tangents. 1553 01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:26,980 ♪ uptempo music playing ♪ 1554 01:17:29,316 --> 01:17:32,236 [indistinct chatter] 1555 01:17:38,408 --> 01:17:40,953 I need to cut something. Sorry. 1556 01:17:40,953 --> 01:17:43,288 ♪ 1557 01:17:45,707 --> 01:17:48,418 What? Oh, thank you. [indistinct chatter] 1558 01:17:48,418 --> 01:17:50,295 You're going to take my phone and my, uh-- 1559 01:17:50,295 --> 01:17:51,797 ASSISTANT: Purse. 1560 01:17:53,340 --> 01:17:54,800 Hi, girls. Okay. 1561 01:17:55,217 --> 01:17:58,178 They're very well-behaved, but they're also-- 1562 01:17:58,178 --> 01:18:00,305 I told them it was going to be just for a little bit, 1563 01:18:00,305 --> 01:18:02,891 but we're going to have to do all this and then it's gonna be done. 1564 01:18:02,891 --> 01:18:07,688 ♪ 1565 01:18:11,275 --> 01:18:13,610 [indistinct chatter] 1566 01:18:15,571 --> 01:18:18,365 I rescued them from China and I swear to God, 1567 01:18:18,365 --> 01:18:21,201 they are so-- they're just so grateful. 1568 01:18:21,201 --> 01:18:26,832 ♪ 1569 01:18:26,832 --> 01:18:29,710 I thought I was going to live here. I was like, living in Hancock. 1570 01:18:29,710 --> 01:18:31,879 I was engaged, too. It's a long story. 1571 01:18:31,879 --> 01:18:35,257 ♪ 1572 01:18:41,054 --> 01:18:43,098 I promise. Okay. [indistinct chatter] 1573 01:18:43,098 --> 01:18:46,685 ♪ 1574 01:18:51,315 --> 01:18:52,774 [Tinsley chuckles] 1575 01:18:55,194 --> 01:18:56,486 Sorry. Hi. 1576 01:18:56,486 --> 01:19:00,365 So, Morgan just told me she's backing out. She doesn't want to come. 1577 01:19:00,365 --> 01:19:01,992 - Oh, my God. She can't. - Yeah. 1578 01:19:01,992 --> 01:19:06,747 - Why? - She's like, I don't know. She's-- 1579 01:19:06,747 --> 01:19:09,458 Okay. Well, let me talk to her, maybe. 1580 01:19:16,131 --> 01:19:19,927 - Yeah, like-- - She didn't feel like, like, secure enough with me or something? 1581 01:19:19,927 --> 01:19:21,261 - I mean, I don't know. - I don't know. 1582 01:19:21,261 --> 01:19:23,722 Okay, let me-- Can I talk-- Can I talk to her for a second? 1583 01:19:23,722 --> 01:19:24,806 Yeah. Well-- 1584 01:19:26,517 --> 01:19:29,102 ♪ pensive music playing ♪ 1585 01:19:31,605 --> 01:19:33,524 [ringback tone] 1586 01:19:35,984 --> 01:19:37,694 AUTOMATED VOICEMAIL MESSAGE: ...is not available. 1587 01:19:37,694 --> 01:19:39,988 At the tone, please record your message. 1588 01:19:40,572 --> 01:19:41,782 [phone beeps] 1589 01:19:41,782 --> 01:19:44,618 MORGAN [on phone]: I honestly don't feel like attending this event. 1590 01:19:44,618 --> 01:19:48,205 What do I have in common with these people anymore? 1591 01:19:48,205 --> 01:19:51,124 Absolutely fucking nothing. 1592 01:19:53,126 --> 01:19:55,796 Do I have any of the same values? 1593 01:19:55,796 --> 01:19:57,714 We used to look up to the same accomplishments, 1594 01:19:57,714 --> 01:20:01,051 like, "Oh, my God, she's a brand ambassador for X, Y, Z." 1595 01:20:01,885 --> 01:20:03,720 Maybe we live in a time period where I can be 1596 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,765 a brand ambassador for something, but am I? 1597 01:20:07,182 --> 01:20:10,978 No, I'm not. It's not anywhere in my life where I want to be. 1598 01:20:13,480 --> 01:20:17,860 What am I these days? I'm a transsexual call girl. 1599 01:20:20,237 --> 01:20:21,738 PHOTOGRAPHER: Yeah, I like that. Good. 1600 01:20:22,739 --> 01:20:23,740 Very nice. 1601 01:20:24,408 --> 01:20:27,452 [indistinct shouting] 1602 01:20:27,452 --> 01:20:29,204 KELLY: It's all very mythological. 1603 01:20:30,539 --> 01:20:35,127 The concept of celebrities, the family, beautiful people, the freaks. 1604 01:20:35,127 --> 01:20:38,297 The one who wins, one who lose. One who came from nowhere. 1605 01:20:40,007 --> 01:20:41,008 The one who died, 1606 01:20:41,008 --> 01:20:43,135 the one who was so rich, they had everything and lost it all. 1607 01:20:43,135 --> 01:20:45,762 [indistinct chatter] 1608 01:20:47,556 --> 01:20:48,724 These are all stories 1609 01:20:48,724 --> 01:20:51,185 and these are the people who want to be the stars of the stories. 1610 01:20:51,185 --> 01:20:53,061 And in order to be the stars of the story, 1611 01:20:53,061 --> 01:20:54,146 you need a storybook. 1612 01:20:54,146 --> 01:20:56,064 And then you need somebody to read the book 1613 01:20:56,064 --> 01:20:57,900 and then somebody to build the amusement park about it. 1614 01:20:57,900 --> 01:20:59,484 And that's how it fucking goes. 1615 01:21:00,027 --> 01:21:02,196 So, I guess you need to decide, 1616 01:21:02,196 --> 01:21:05,282 do you want to be the consumer, the consumed or the creator? 1617 01:21:05,282 --> 01:21:07,784 'Cause those, those are the three lanes. 1618 01:21:10,746 --> 01:21:12,748 MORGAN: We think we're in control. 1619 01:21:12,748 --> 01:21:15,000 But these narratives are pre-written. 1620 01:21:16,418 --> 01:21:19,296 These stories create our reality. 1621 01:21:20,422 --> 01:21:23,383 I know the way out. I know the truth. 1622 01:21:25,928 --> 01:21:28,972 Our differences make us divine. 1623 01:21:29,932 --> 01:21:35,020 And maybe that's what makes difference so terrifying. 1624 01:21:36,897 --> 01:21:39,983 I will write my story and make it trip. 1625 01:21:40,734 --> 01:21:43,278 There, I am divine. 1626 01:21:44,947 --> 01:21:49,660 I will create my own American divinity. 1627 01:21:56,124 --> 01:21:59,878 ♪ Rich Girl by Nina Simone playing ♪ 1628 01:22:02,005 --> 01:22:05,384 ♪ 1629 01:22:07,427 --> 01:22:09,054 ♪ There's a rich girl ♪ 1630 01:22:09,054 --> 01:22:13,308 ♪ You know you've gone too far and you know it don't matter anyway ♪ 1631 01:22:13,976 --> 01:22:19,648 ♪ You can rely on your old man's money, you can rely on your old man's money ♪ 1632 01:22:19,648 --> 01:22:22,776 ♪ Don't you bitch, girl, and you've gone too far ♪ 1633 01:22:22,776 --> 01:22:25,571 ♪ And you know it don't matter anyway ♪ 1634 01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:30,868 ♪ Money, money won't get you too far, get you too far ♪ 1635 01:22:31,451 --> 01:22:37,124 ♪ Don't you know, don't you know ♪ 1636 01:22:38,041 --> 01:22:44,006 ♪ That it's wrong to take what is given you ♪ 1637 01:22:44,131 --> 01:22:49,553 ♪ So far gone on your own ♪ 1638 01:22:50,262 --> 01:22:53,807 ♪ And you can get along, but you gotta be strong ♪ 1639 01:22:53,807 --> 01:22:56,894 ♪ You can never be strong ♪ 1640 01:22:56,894 --> 01:22:58,020 ♪ There's a rich girl ♪ 1641 01:22:58,020 --> 01:23:02,858 ♪ You know you've gone too far and you know it don't matter anyway ♪ 1642 01:23:02,858 --> 01:23:05,944 ♪ Hey, you can rely on your old man's money ♪ 1643 01:23:05,944 --> 01:23:08,989 ♪ You can rely on your old man's money ♪ 1644 01:23:08,989 --> 01:23:12,034 ♪ It's a bitch, girl, you know you've gone too far ♪ 1645 01:23:12,034 --> 01:23:14,953 ♪ And you know it don't matter anyway ♪ 1646 01:23:15,412 --> 01:23:20,042 ♪ Money, money won't get you too far, get you too far ♪ 1647 01:23:20,876 --> 01:23:25,672 ♪ High and dry, have a little rain ♪ 1648 01:23:26,507 --> 01:23:29,635 ♪ It's so easy ♪ 1649 01:23:29,968 --> 01:23:32,888 ♪ To hurt others when you can't feel pain ♪ 1650 01:23:32,888 --> 01:23:38,477 ♪ So far gone on your own ♪