* *
So, okay. Let's go. Is it blue or pink?
-Oh, my God! -(screams)
It's a girl!
Are you for real?!
Oh, my God!
Oh, my God! It's a girl!
(man whoops)
WOMAN: My God!
MAN: I can't believe it.
(indistinct) Is it a girl?
-It's a girl. (laughs) -(screams)
-("Be My Baby" playing) -(people cheering)
GROUP: Three, two, one.
(cheering, screaming)
* I needed you so *
(cheering)
* And if I had the chance *
* I'd never let you go *
(cheering)
-(cheering) -* So won't you say you love me? *
* I'll make you so proud of me *
(cheering, screaming)
* We'll make them turn their heads *
(cheering)
-* Every place we go * -(cheering)
* So won't you please *
* Be my, be my baby *
* Be my little baby *
* My one and only baby *
-(cheering) -* Say you'll be my darlin' *
-* Be my, be my baby * -(cheering)
* Be my baby now *
-(cheering) -* Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh *
(yells wildly)
Yeah! Yeah!
(engine revving)
(cheering)
(song pauses)
-* Be my, be my baby * -(cheering)
* Be my little baby *
* My one and only baby *
* Say you'll be my darlin' *
* Be my, be my baby *
-* Be my baby now * -(cheering)
* Whoa-oh-oh-oh. *
* *
(song ends)
* *
SEAN SAIFA WALL: We live in a society that's so binary.
And so, for me as an intersex person, where do I fit?
Where do I belong?
ALICIA ROTH WEIGEL: I was born intersex,
between the two sexes.
I have physical and anatomical traits
that don't fall neatly into that male/female box
that birth certificates would make you think
is how the world is.
You feel so alone and isolated
and like your body is a problem.
RIVER GALLO: There's this connotation of
something that's ugly.
That it's, like, gross.
Or, like, something that is monstrous.
Actually, our very existence proves
that there is no pure male and female.
-Ah. -What's up? Hi.
-You look so beautiful. -Ah. Hi.
-Thank you. So do you. -SAIFA: Wow.
ALICIA: I do not.
-(Alicia sighs) -Yeah.
-You look great. -Thank you.
(laughter)
JULIE COHEN: I did just want to start off asking
the three of you how you feel, like,
intersex people have been depicted.
The way I've seen it, it's usually, like,
-really sensationalized. -Yeah.
It's like, "Oh. They have-- This person has both."
-You know? -ALICIA: Yeah, yeah.
It's just a complete misunderstanding
of, like, our lives and experiences.
You know, I'm lately even thinking, like--
talking about representation--
I would say the biggest thing is the lack of it.
-ALICIA: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. -The just zero-ness of it.
No one even knows what intersex means.
And people fear what they don't know and understand.
When I'm dating, it's always like,
"When can I tell someone?"
("Call Me Maybe" by Boyce Avenue playing)
* I threw a wish in the well *
* Don't ask me, I'll never tell... *
Want to come with Mommy?
* But now you're in my way... *
(Alicia grunts playfully)
Good girl.
Yeah, Mommy's gonna do some swiping, okay?
All right?
No. (chuckles)
No.
(grunts)
* Where you think you're going, baby... *
Oh, I matched.
No. No.
Ooh, he's kind of cute.
Dude-bro.
No.
Ooh, this guy has macaroons in the background.
I like macaroons.
Cute dog, too old.
Oh, my God. He says, "Name is Josh.
Trump 2020. No haters."
(chuckles)
Nope.
Chiquita, baby girl, you want a treat?
-* So call me, baby. * -(song ends)
Dating has been tough.
It's, like, markedly different than it was before I was,
you know, out as being intersex.
Before I came out on dating apps,
I used to, like, clean up.
Not to toot my own horn.
My parents and doctors cautioned me about
the fact that it would be more difficult being out and dating,
because people don't know what "intersex" means,
and they see the word and they think I'm walking around
with something in my pants that I do not have.
I have a new match.
Oh, he's cute.
I don't have "intersex" in my profile.
The thing is, I feel like most dudes wouldn't even notice,
'cause most guys just look at your picture anyway.
And, like, I shouldn't have to...
...label myself in a way that makes me feel like
I'm a poster board for something.
Um, but for me, it's kind of like, if I don't divulge it--
Ooh, this guy's cute.
If I don't divulge it-- Oh, we matched.
Then they'll find out on their own 'cause they'll google me.
And if someone can't handle me, then sucks for them.
(applause)
Madam Chairman, ladies and gentlemen.
I gave my talk today,
the title of "Developmental Differentiation
of Femininity and Masculinity Compared."
I have two slides to show you, uh, for the, uh,
for the chromosome, if we may have them, please.
Here's a picture of the human sex chromosomes, uh,
which are 46 in number.
In the sexual differentiation of the human embryo,
the norm is ordinarily male
when the sex chromosomes are X and Y
and female when they are a pair of X's.
Society generally considers that
XY chromosomes means you're a man
and XX means you're a woman.
Although I was born with XY chromosomes,
I was also born with a vagina.
And so they assigned me "female" at birth,
because they usually go
based on the parts that you're born with.
But another trait that was not visible on the outside
was that I had internal testes.
Um, I was not born with a womb. I was not born with ovaries.
I was born with testes on the inside.
The protocol was to remove those testes
through what they call a gonadectomy,
which, in my view,
is a euphemistic way of saying castrating me.
They removed my testes. That is castration.
(laughter)
(playful chatter)
MONEY: Now, if you can imagine a person
who looks like a 100% normal female when born,
and yet this person is one who has
no uterus from which to menstruate
and is also lacking in tubes and ovaries,
uh, and, paradoxically,
has the internal organs of male structure,
then you have the story
of this strange partial reversal in human beings.
SAIFA: I think for me, growing up,
I felt like a little boy.
And I remember my mom was just like,
"You are not a boy. You're a girl."
* *
Susanne. That was my birth name.
Baby Girl Wall.
Here it is.
Yeah, so right here, they had originally put an X mark.
Uh, for sex, they had put "ambiguous,"
and then they crossed it out,
and then they put an X for "female."
You know, it's written here literally in black and white.
"There is no uterus." Never was.
"Phallus is small."
"Recommendations: Assignment of sex as female."
It's underlined.
"In the interest of proper psychosexual orientation
"of the infant
"and in order to protect
"the parent's emotional well-being,
"the mother has been told that the baby is a girl
and will function as such."
"Therapeutic goals.
"Plastic repair to modify external genital
to be consistent with female."
That's fucked up.
There wasn't even any thinking about it.
It wasn't any sort of
asking or consulting with my mom.
It was literally like,
"You have a child that we feel is abnormal, um,
and this is how we can make your child normal."
MONEY: When the, when the baby is brought in
at the time of birth,
it's-it's quite easy to make a-a proper diagnosis
and to go ahead making the proper correction.
RIVER (speaking Spanish):
-Okay. -Baby, what is it?
Yeah, well, just relax, baby.
Mm.
(softly): Okay.
Mm-hmm.
-RIVER: That's me, right? -Mm-hmm.
MARIBEL: Baby.
Aw, you see.
So cute.
RIVER: This is my fifth birthday.
I always liked cake.
(both laugh)
-MARIBEL: The Boy Scout. -Yeah, Boy Scouts.
Wow, this is 2001.
(sighs heavily) Wow.
-RIVER: Yeah. It is. -It is.
("Born to Run" by Amy Macdonald playing)
I was born in Hackensack, New Jersey.
I was raised in a small town called Ridgefield Park.
* On the day, we sweat it out on the streets *
* Of a runaway American dream *
* At night, we ran through mansions of glory *
* In suicide machines... *
RIVER: I'm a huge Bruce Springsteen fan,
as many a Jersey girl.
* Fuel injection and stepping out over the line... *
My parents immigrated from El Salvador undocumented.
They owned a restaurant, a Salvadoran restaurant.
* We gotta get out while we're young... *
It really helped me develop a work ethic.
What is that phrase?
"Strap up your bootstraps" or "buckle up your straps."
(laughs)
Pull myself up from my bootstraps.
* Whoa... *
And that is where I grew up, in this blue house.
My dad, my mom, my sister and I,
we shared a bedroom until I was like nine or ten.
* But till then, tramps like us *
* Baby, we were born to run... *
So, I grew up thinking
I was just a normal boy,
but at the same time, if I'm to be honest,
I think I always felt, like, different.
Like, I remember secretly putting on my mom's makeup
or, like, you know,
trying on her clothes when, you know, no one was around.
You know, all those, like, things that, like,
a lot of queer, trans or nonbinary people experience.
But physiologically, I always thought, like, I was--
there was nothing wrong with me.
-Stop! Don't record! -MAN: I'm not recording.
-Then how come the red light is on? -The red light is on.
MAN: Shit. All right.
And one, two...
RIVER: When I was 12,
I had a doctor's appointment.
It was just, like, uh, allergies or something.
My pediatrician asked my mom,
"Oh, when are you going to tell him?"
And then she was like, "Oh, we're gonna tell him soon."
I was like, "I'm right here.
Like, what are you guys talking about?"
A month later,
we all drove to the pediatrician together,
and, um...
then I went in by myself, and I--
my doctor told me that I was born without testicles.
I knew that I had a penis, and I knew that I had a scrotum,
and I didn't know that there was something
supposed to be in that scrotum.
Then my doctor pretty much explained how, eventually,
I would have a surgery to implant prosthetic testicles.
The idea was, since I had a penis, to--
if I had testicles, I would fully look, um, "male"
and my life would be-- I'd be fixed.
(singer vocalizing)
(song ends)
BEN SHAPIRO: Here's the, here's the deal.
For all of human history, there was an objective standard
between male and female.
It was out of simply looking at people's genitals
and assessing them based on their outward appearance.
Right? Which is still true for nearly all human beings
on planet Earth at all times.
That is not a myth. That's called science.
Fifty-six. That's how many options you now have
to describe your gender on Facebook.
The social networking site is adding options that include
transgender, intersex, whatever that is. (scoffs)
The most inclusive definition of "intersex" is
"Any variation in a person's sex traits
"with which they're either born
or they develop naturally during puberty."
The existence of intersex traits
shows us not only does that middle space exist
between male and female
but that there also is a lot of variation
within those categories of male and female.
It is possible to be
a quote-unquote "biological female"
and have testes.
It is possible to be a biological male
and have a uterus.
I'm a full-blown hermaphrodite.
Put that on your banner.
* Mr. Houdini, you're a freak show. *
DALKE: One of the biggest problems with
terms like "hermaphrodite" is that they imply
that people are born with
a full set of male and female sex organs.
It's not possible actually
for a person to really have both.
Because there's such a wide range of variations
that people can have,
there are really wide-ranging implications
for that person's physical health.
Unfortunately, the way that the medical community has responded
to that complexity, historically,
is to focus on managing someone's genital appearance
and their gender identity.
For some people, depending on their variation,
a person may need
really specific and urgent medical or surgical care,
but in most cases, surgery is not medically necessary.
(Saifa clears throat)
SAIFA: "13-year-old Black female
"with a history of testicular feminization
who is noted to have bilateral gonads."
"Patient never had her menses."
I clearly had a very intersex body.
Whereas in the original birth record,
they had put, um, "a small phallus."
And then by the time I was 13, it was like--
you know, it says right here.
"A large clitoris."
So, already everything was sort of, like, aligning
to sort of reinforce this female gender identity.
So my mom consented to the gonadectomy.
The doctor told my mom,
"These gonads, they have to be removed.
They're-they're cancerous."
And my mom heard "cancer," and she was like,
"Must be done."
Later, I found that they weren't cancerous.
They weren't.
I was subjected to the gonadectomy,
which was a removal of my testes.
Which left me with two scars, bilateral scars on my belly.
Yeah, I just remember, like, a lot of pain.
It was just, like, a lot of pain.
After surgery,
the doctor came into my room followed by these residents.
No one wanted to know my name.
It was just like, literally, you know,
"Pull down, you know, lift up your gown."
And, you know, here I am, 13 years old, um,
naked, you know, in front of these residents,
and they're just totally looking at me.
MONEY: The appropriate surgical corrections are undertaken,
and at teen age,
the congruous hormonal therapy is given.
And the result is not by any means as dire
as one may expect.
SAIFA: I was a boy in all this, like--
all these dresses and stuff.
When they removed my testicles,
they changed the course of my life.
I did not consent to that surgery.
ALICIA: I remember
when my friends first started getting their period
and they would start asking me for tampons.
And I would never need a tampon because I don't get my period.
I don't have a uterus. I don't have ovaries.
There would be nowhere for a period to come from.
And yet I started carrying around tampons
because I had to keep up this facade.
I would have to...
take these pills or use, like, dilators.
They're, like, these, like, medical-produced dildos,
because they want to make sure that your vagina is big enough
to have penetrative sex with a man.
Like, I couldn't even, like,
share that experience, like, with my parents.
Like, the doctors told me to do that.
And I was like 11 or 12,
like, using these dildos, like, alone in a closet in my house.
RIVER: I had, um, an ultrasound performed on me.
I just remember this technician, like, just, like,
going over the same--
my groin, like, over and over again
with this, like, icy cold, like, probe and the gel.
And... and I just remember all these, like, students,
like, gathered around me, like, watching.
After some time, I, like, kicked one of them,
and I was just like,
"My testicles are not there. Just please leave me alone."
I grew up with this belief that like,
"Okay, I have this condition.
I need to sort of keep it to myself."
Doctors would tell my mom, "Oh, people won't understand.
"Never talk about this with laypeople.
Only talk about it with physicians."
ALICIA: I had never heard the word "intersex" in my life.
I was told that I had a problem,
that I was being fixed
and that I should never tell anyone about it,
because if I did, then I would not be able to find a husband
if they knew what I was.
I don't think anyone explicitly told me to keep it a secret.
However...
...why would anybody want to talk about
not having testicles in high school?
At 15 or 16, I had the surgery
to put prosthetic testicles inside of me.
None of my doctors said, you know,
to have any kind of emotional or psychological support
throughout any of it.
I was looking at ways to cope with, um,
just this huge secret.
This body was a problem that needed to be fixed,
and the fixing had to be a secret.
ALICIA: Why does my brother not know about this?
Why is there so much shame surrounding this
that even within our own family we can't talk about it?
DALKE: Secrecy has been just as big a part
of medical treatment of intersex kids
as the surgery has been.
The idea being that if they knew about
their medical or surgical history,
then they would question their gender identity.
Within the context of, you know, mid-century America,
um, and a-a drive for a really binary assignment,
that ambivalence was thought to be totally counterproductive
to someone growing up,
identifying as essentially straight and cisgender.
So, in practice,
virtually every child born with an intersex condition,
that information was withheld for them.
Um, in my own case, I was identified as having
an intersex variation when I was six years old.
My parents are both physicians,
and everything that they read in medical textbooks
and heard from my physicians said,
"You should not tell her this about herself."
COHEN: If-if you had to act out, like,
what was the message about how open you should be
about being intersex?
(groans)
Yeah. Totally.
(laughing)
(laughing): I'm not here.
No, don't... (laughing)
("Our Lips Are Sealed" by Lionel Ziblat playing)
* Can you hear them? *
* They talk about us *
* They're telling lies *
* Well, that's no surprise *
* Can you see them... *
ALICIA: I was, like, tri-varsity
and captain of different sports teams.
And... part of that was, like, wanting to hit
these validating factors to be worthy of-of love.
* Yeah, our lips are sealed *
* Well, we've all thought... *
RIVER: Achievement meant to me
a way of trying to define myself
outside of this strange, obscure secret about my body.
* Yeah, our lips are sealed... *
SAIFA: Ever since I was younger, like,
I really wanted something more.
I'm an ambitious person for sure.
* Our lips are sealed *
-* Our lips are sealed. * -(song fades)
SAIFA: There's a culture of shame and stigma
and silence that surround intersex people.
It's not just the surgeries themselves,
but it-it's the voyeurism by doctors.
It's the medical photography.
This person becomes, like, a specimen.
MONEY: Human hermaphrodites has been a field
of my special interest over the last 11 years.
That is, in the study of psychosexual differentiation
in these people who are physical hermaphrodites.
Their external genitals may tell a lie to their owner,
as well as to other people,
so that it's therapeutically high-highly desirable
to have them surgically corrected at an early age.
I-I definitely had
some romantic encounters in high school.
I had a boyfriend and a girlfriend.
It was really scary.
I was afraid that they would find out
that the testicles that I had were-were fake.
I think, for my girlfriend,
I think I told her that I had testicular cancer
and that that's the reason why--
'cause, you know, that I, that I couldn't--
God, this sounds so weird-- get her pregnant,
like, when we had sex.
So, like, we didn't use condoms.
But, like, that was the excuse that I gave
because I would rather had said that
than, like, tell her the truth that I was never born with any.
ALICIA: I felt like the way that I would be worthy of love
was fitting this perfect paradigm
of what a woman is supposed to be.
If I got serious with someone,
I was worried that that would, like,
ruin all that love that we had built
for them to know who I actually was.
SAIFA: I feel like sex and sexual relations
just bring you right into the-the muck
of all your vulnerability,
all of your pain, all of your trauma.
Like, it just drops you right in.
I started dating this woman in my senior year of college.
This would be the first time
that I actually had sex with someone
where I was completely naked,
and I was really losing my shit.
I wanted to experience, like, our bodies together, but...
I just...
I think I was just so like,
"My body doesn't exist in the world.
"My body is just so different
from anything that I can comprehend."
I think the only thing I could mutter was like,
"I-I can't do this."
COHEN: Were any of you told
by family members, by doctors,
anything about the history of
medical treatment of intersex people?
-No. -ALICIA: What? No.
-No. -No. -(chuckles)
ALICIA: No.
And that's the common thread with all intersex people is
all the things that we learn about the community,
about our variations, about anything,
it's all, like, a self-journey.
SAIFA: Right.
You know, some people don't even find each other like we did,
and, for me, I've learned so much about myself
just through other intersex people.
Yeah.
You know, there are anywhere from 35 to 40 variations,
and I think, you know,
depending on the variation you have,
it's like you become an expert on your body.
-ALICIA: Yeah. -SAIFA: You know?
Whenever I've met people with AIS,
it's just wild, like-- it's just, like, this--
it's a script.
Remove the testes,
put the child on, you know, progesterone or estrogen,
create a vagina,
make sure that, you know, the vagina is suitable
for sex, you know, with your future husband.
The treatment of intersex young people
is totally based in, like,
this 1950s ideology of, like, creating men and women.
ALICIA: Yeah.
MONEY: The difference becomes apparent
even in childhood.
When boys are out staking territory claims,
constructing hideouts, forts and camps,
and fending off rival intruder gangs,
girls are expending somewhat less energy,
usually closer to home,
making lairs and homes for the young
and raising doll babies.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, a special report
on the search for sexual identity.
(applause)
GERALDO RIVERA: Dr. John Money is a professor
of medical psychology
at the Johns Hopkins Medical Center.
He's also the cofounder of the Gender Identity Clinic there.
TOM SNYDER: This week's issue ofTime magazine
calls my next guest, Mr. John Money,
one of the best-known sex researchers in the country.
KEITH SIGMUNDSON: John Money was a-a psychologist
who had advanced ideas of sex
and had achieved such a position of prominence.
RICHARD SHER: We are delighted to be joined by Dr. John Money.
He's a world-famous sexologist.
And it is nice to have you back again, Dr. Money.
OPRAH WINFREY: It certainly is.
How many hermaphrodites are there born in this country?
Nobody in the United States keeps figures on it,
so there's no absolute certainty, but...
WINFREY: Why? I would think we would keep figures.
We just-- we just don't?
I would have thought so, too, but we don't.
DALKE: It's pretty unusual in the history of medicine
for one person to be synonymous with a revolution
in the treatment of a specific condition,
and Dr. Money was single-handedly responsible
for creating a new treatment paradigm for intersex people.
It was really all him.
SAIFA: I didn't know about Dr. Money
until I was in my mid-20s.
But growing up, I didn't really associate any of my treatment
or any of the stuff that I was learning about with Dr. Money.
ALICIA: Yeah, I'm-I'm more familiar
with modern-day doctors.
COHEN: So I'm gonna show you some footage about Dr. Money
and his most famous patient, David Reimer.
Um, David was not intersex,
but his case with Dr. Money had so much influence
on the way intersex people have been treated.
NEWSMAN (over computer): Could a normal boy,
if it was thought to be in his best interest,
be brought up as a girl?
MONEY: I have some very fascinating cases
that have taught me a lot.
Because they were born with an error
or a birth defect of the sex organs,
there was a quite natural and legitimate uncertainty
as to which way the birth certificate should be signed.
NEWSMAN: John Money came to believe that between birth
and the age of two,
a child could learn to be either sex
before it became fixed in its sexual identity.
Science has debated sexual identity for years
and referred increasingly to one particular case.
He was born a boy, but as a baby,
he became the subject of an experiment
aimed at turning him into a girl.
WINFREY: In 1965, Janet Reimer became the proud mother
of identical twins.
The baby boys were strong, healthy and happy.
At eight months, Janet took them to the doctor
to be circumcised.
JANET REIMER: The doctor called us into his office,
and he said, "There's been a little mistake."
And then he said that, uh...
David's penis had been burnt.
They were using a cauterizing machine.
-An electric current that cuts tissue... -Mm-hmm. That's it.
...and it was supposed to cut the foreskin.
Yes, and something happened.
Too much current came through.
It cut the whole penis off.
At the time, I guess the idea of reconstructing a penis...
It was impossible at that time.
My first words were, "My God, what are we going to do?"
The gender role and the psychosexual identity
agree with the sex of assignment and rearing.
We happened to be watching that show, and I'd heard Dr. Money.
And he was very charismatic,
very dignified in a lot--
He seemed like a man that really knew where it's at.
The appropriate surgical corrections are undertaken,
and at teen age, the congruous hormonal therapy is given.
And the result is not by any means
as dire as one may expect.
I wrote him a letter, and he very promptly answered.
He was most interested in seeing us.
What did he say he could do?
He said that our baby could grow up as a girl.
KEITH MORRISON: Just like any other woman?
JANET: Yes.
With the help of surgery.
NEWSWOMAN: At the age of 21 months, the baby's testicles
were removed at Dr. Money's request.
It was now up to the parents
to nurture their child into a girl.
JANET: Dr. Money suggested
that it was my responsibility to make her feminine.
MORRISON: The Reimers were told they must stand steadfast
behind their decision and must not tell
either of their twins the truth.
JANET: Well, the first time
I put him in a dress...
was a real trial,
because he tried to tear it off.
Oh, my God.
JANET: Oh, my God. He knows he's been a boy.
DALKE: Once David was assigned female,
the family was advised to move to a different place
to keep from the twins any indication
that there had been two boys instead of a boy and a girl.
Neither one of the twins were ever told
why they were going to see Dr. Money.
NEWSWOMAN: It was a pilgrimage they would make annually
for the next nine years.
Johns Hopkins School of Medicine is world-famous
for its work on sexuality disorders.
The whole notion of sexual or gender identity
was developed and experimented with in this institution,
first and foremost by Dr. John Money.
SIGMUNDSON: For John Money and his theory,
this became a perfect experiment.
You would have proof that
indeed you could raise a boy as a girl,
and they would be perfectly happy and successful.
COHEN: So how did the case come to you?
I was the head of the department of, uh, psychiatry
for the school system in Winnipeg, Canada.
I was just assigned this case
because I was the senior psychiatrist responsible.
Well, it was presented as if this was a working situation
in which a young child
had been reassigned from male to female
under two and a half years of age,
and that this was going to be-- uh, have a positive outcome.
Did all the therapists know what had happened?
Yes.
And they were instructed not to tell Brenda?
It was not our responsibility
to inform Brenda about the truth.
The mandate that we were given,
with consultation with John Money and his people,
was to help to raise her as a girl.
Brenda didn't look like a girl at all.
She was unkempt.
She sat with her legs spread.
MORRISON: Brenda was caught by a classmate
in the girls' bathroom urinating standing up.
When you were eight, nine, ten, 11 years old,
what names did they call you at school?
(sighs): Uh...
Caveman, uh...
...uh, freak, uh...
Just about anything imaginable.
I didn't, I didn't comb my hair half the time.
I wore wrinkly clothes.
I couldn't see myself getting all dolled up. Then you get--
You want to hide in a closet. This is--
You know, it's embarrassing.
You know, I mean, it's just like--
(stammers) You can imagine yourself.
Try to go shopping wearing a dress, wearing a wig,
and go shopping, and then you tell me how you feel.
SIGMUNDSON: It became evident to me
this wasn't working at all.
I would go to the senior committee
and, uh, say, you know,
"We-We've got to tell the world that this isn't working."
Some of the members of my senior team said,
"Johns Hopkins will kill you. Your career will be over."
Dr. Money published many articles
on the, uh, progress
that the twins were making.
They were entirely positive.
These reports were glowing.
MORRISON: Brenda and Brian were ten
when Dr. Money published this 1975 paper
in the Archives of Sexual Behavior.
"Brenda's behavior," he writes,
"is so normally that of an active little girl
"and so clearly different by contrast
to the boyish ways of her twin brother."
Is there any possibility that he thought
the experiment to turn you into a girl was working?
I don't think so.
Nobody could be that blind.
How did you feel when John Money told you
that it was time to begin hormone treatments?
I said, "Hell no.
"Why do I have to take this medicine? I'm not dying.
Uh, I-I don't feel that I need it."
And he came up to me, and he says,
"Well, it's to help you so that you'll wear a bra."
SAIFA: When I look at
his face, I just see so much pain.
And the thing is, is that
he didn't even have to go through that.
You know, it didn't have to be this way.
NEWSWOMAN: The child threatened to commit suicide
if ever forced to see Money again.
Only then did his father break down and tell him everything.
DAVID: Then-- well, and then that made sense.
You know, I'm not the one that's crazy.
Like, I was scammed here, you know?
I was, uh, I was taken advantage of.
I was lied to.
SIGMUNDSON: Brenda immediately made the decision
that he was not a girl
and wanted to do anything he could
to assume his life as a male.
She underwent a very painful operation
to have the breast tissue that had developed
from the time she started the female hormones--
uh, to have them removed.
She spent numbers of weeks in the hospital
when they were trying to reconstruct a penis.
MORRISON: As David struggled,
the world's medical community still had no way of knowing
that the case had been anything but a success.
Dr. Money, the psychologist who for years had written
that the changeover to a girl was working,
hadn't published anything more
to let people know what was now happening.
SIGMUNDSON: The case was still in the literature,
and it had now become part of the textbooks
that medical students were studying all over the world.
The entire medical literature on behalf of gender
and sexual reassignment for intersex children
was entirely based upon this one case.
I had to let the world know what had happened.
I went back to speak to David
as to whether he would like to come out and tell his story.
He readily agreed.
MORRISON: Dr. Sigmundson
and psychologist Milton Diamond wrote a 1997 paper
revealing, without mentioning David's name,
that the success story was not what it seemed.
SIGMUNDSON: Our article was submitted to
the British Medical Journal,
to the New England Journal of Medicine,
and to the American Medical Association Journal,
and in each case, it was returned
after approximately six months, saying,
"We will not publish. It is too controversial."
Eventually, uh, theJournal of Adolescent Medicine
agreed to publish.
DALKE: Money's work was summarily debunked.
What's interesting though is it has been very slow
to catch on in actually changing practice.
The study was debunked in the 1990s,
but the core of Money's conclusion,
that we can make a social gender assignment
and that surgery needs to happen early,
we've really not been able to move past that.
SIGMUNDSON: In America today,
there are still places
where pediatric surgery is performed
based on the Brenda Reimer case.
I think that there's a lot of people
that are very interested in the quick fix.
"Let's go for a quick fix.
"Let's throw him in the surgery room
and get this done and over with."
But who's the one suffering?
* *
MORRISON: David and Jane.
They've been married ten years.
Thanks to reconstructive surgery,
David is capable of having sex.
Though he can never have children,
he's adopted Jane's three children,
-who are now like his own. -(kids laughing)
I'm... I'm married.
I got three kids. I got a nice home.
MORRISON: So, it worked out okay?
Yep.
If you could say anything you wanted to Dr. Money,
what would you say to him?
I don't know.
Are you still angry at him?
Sometimes.
There's a lot of things that are unresolved.
NEWSWOMAN: David Reimer's conflicted life
cut short last week by a tragic suicide.
Reimer's story made international headlines.
He was the victim of a bizarre gender experiment,
a boy forced to live his childhood as a girl.
* *
MORRISON: In earlier times when you told this story,
your identity has been hidden.
And now...
The man unmasked.
Yeah, the man unmasked.
Perhaps this will save...
other people from going through what I went through.
Best way you can look at it.
And that's why you're doing it?
Yes.
I lost my temper when I had heard there was...
that I wasn't the only one that had this surgery.
Well, not the surgery but this whole process being done.
And because of my so-called success story,
that others had to go through what I went through,
and I-I had to try to right a wrong.
All right.
Here we are at the first ever
International World Intersex meeting.
-Whoo. -Yeah.
(laughter)
This is a historic moment, um,
and this is about breaking the secrets and lies.
I really give so much, like, credit and respect and honor
to the previous generation of activists.
I always mark the beginnings of the intersex movement
in the U.S. with the founding of
the Intersex Society of North America.
Actually, I have a question for all of you.
You know, you've told us that you were treated very badly,
it sounds, by your doctors.
SAIFA: There was a gathering of, um,
intersex people.
Ten hermaphrodites in one place.
Has this ever happened before? I don't know.
SAIFA: I think it was radical because,
you know, at the time, there wasn't a context
to understand intersex at all.
These people were sharing their stories so vulnerably.
I mean, I remember them
removing my penis when I was five.
LAURENT: How do you feel about the fact that was done to you?
At times, I feel like hiding in the closet,
because it's like, how can anybody accept, uh, somebody
who's been this mutilated and this, you know--
Who can accept damaged goods?
I did not have the surgery
to change or feminize that part of my body until I was eight.
It was done in a hospital in total secrecy.
I was taken there and dropped off by my parents,
who did not tell me why I was in hospital
or what was going to happen.
I had I don't know how many doctors and people
come to, um, "look at the freak."
I didn't present any physical ambiguity
until I was 12 years old.
I was a-assigned and raised a girl.
And when I was 12, um, my clitoris started to grow.
Um, I not only noticed its size growing more prominent
but I loved it.
The doctors that I were taken to
in Peoria, Illinois, in 1985,
I now know studied under a doctor who had himself studied
under the illustrious John Money.
You know, this is not unusual
that I had my clitoris taken away from me
without my knowledge.
LAURENT: What'd they say?
That they'd just make it smaller?
That's what they say.
And I want anyone watching this, be they, um,
you know, historians or doctors
or intersex people, wh-whomever,
um, I-I want you to know
that we are just the tip of the iceberg.
SAIFA: I remember the first time
I started taking testosterone.
I moved to California late 2003,
started taking T in 2004.
The endocrinologist, he was like,
"Oh, I'm gonna make you a man."
First shot that I got,
like, I literally felt my whole body.
It was like a whole-body experience.
But then I was like, "Wow. My nipples are sore.
"I have water retention. I have panic attacks.
This is terrible."
This physical examination:
"Lip hair, feminine facial features
and C-cup breasts."
"Eventually may desire genitoplasty and mammaplasty."
Yeah, I did have top surgery, though.
I have a distinct memory of, um, wanting to change my name,
uh, at a DMV in San Jose
and them just being so mean.
You know? Like, literally laughing in my face.
And they're like, "Oh, what is she trying to do?
She wants to change her name to Sean? Ha-ha-ha."
MAN (mispronounces): Sean Saifa Wall?
SAIFA: It's Sean Saifa Wall.
(Saifa chuckles)
I had heard
that the San Francisco Human Rights Commission
was doing a hearing on intersex.
I speak as one of many intersex people of color
in this world who may not have access to email,
LISTSERVs and resources
to acknowledge and embrace their intersex condition.
That's when I had actually--
for the first time, in front of a larger audience,
I had said...
talked about my body,
talked about the people in my family who, um, were silent.
I speak for my mom, mother of three children
with partial androgen insensitivity syndrome,
who carries guilt and fear of people discovering
her children's and brother's intersex conditions
and treating them unfairly.
My heart was pounding
because I had been silent about this for so long.
I do relate to years of estrogen therapy
and prodding by psychotherapists
who wanted to know if the estrogen
altered my attraction to women
or changed my presentation as male.
I can relate to interns and doctors inspecting my genitals
and gynecologists shoving their finger in my anus,
searching for a scrotum, but not telling me anything.
What I had experienced, no one should experience.
No one.
NEWSMAN: Lightning rod legislation is
-sparking an emotional debate in Texas.-(crowd chanting)
The state senate committee heard
-ten hours of testimony Friday -(gavel bangs)
on a so-called "bathroom bill."
ALICIA: The lieutenant governor
and governor of Texas had called
a special governmental session
to try to pass a bill,
which basically said
that trans people had to pee in a restroom
that aligned with the sex on their birth certificate.
GREG ABBOTT: We need a law that protects
the privacy of our children in our public schools.
ALICIA: I remember realizing, like,
"Wait, like, my story could help kill this bill,"
because I kept hearing
the senators saying biological sex is cut-and-dry,
and what my story proved
is that biological sex is not cut-and-dry.
At the time, I was working for a former state senator.
All these senators knew me, and a lot of them have hit on me,
so I knew it would blow their mind when they realized that,
all this time, they had been hitting on someone
who was born with balls.
("Oh, Pretty Woman" by Pomplamoose playing)
* Pretty woman *
* Walking down the street *
* Pretty woman... *
At this point, I hadn't told my brother and my best friends
and people that have known me my whole life
that I'm intersex.
On my way to the Capitol is when I called my mom,
and I was like,
"I'm gonna come out today."
And she was like, "What do you mean?"
I was like, "I'm gonna tell the Texas Senate who I am."
* Mercy... *
Madam Chairperson and members of the committee,
thank you for your time.
My name is Alicia Weigel.
I'm a resident of Austin, and I have XY chromosomes.
It was, like, the scariest thing that I've ever done.
I stand here today-- or sit here today-- (chuckles)
representing the "I" in LGBTQIA,
which stands for "intersex."
Uh, because of a condition called
complete androgen insensitivity,
I was born phenotypically female on the outside,
with a woman's anatomy
but with internal testes instead of ovaries.
And so I basically wanted to tell them
that if they wanted to try to pass
discriminatory legislation,
they should at least open a biology textbook first.
Because people like me exist.
Because of my genotypic XY chromosomes,
does that mean that I've been
using the wrong bathroom my whole life?
No, it doesn't mean that.
In closing, I ask people to reflect on how many people
are alienated because their lives and experiences
fall outside of our "established" binary system.
Thank you.
(applause)
It felt so good.
I think that was sort of the beginnings
of, like, the fire for justice that was burning inside of me.
Um, this conversation will perhaps change the world.
Hey, what's up, Alok?
-How are you? -Talk to me.
Whoo, baby.
My presupposition is that there are two genders,
and if you would like to change my mind on that,
you're-you're more than welcome.
I hope that, like, my existence can shed some light for you.
I got into an online conversation with one pundit.
I was actually born intersex.
Our conversation got on YouTube
and has over 20 million views around the world.
If we're born somewhere in between
-in terms of our, like, biological traits... -Mm-hmm.
...then how can it not also be true
that we might identify somewhere in between
in terms of our gender and how that presents itself?
We are receiving health care that is rooted in transphobia
and that's rooted in homophobia.
It's ironic that so many of these doctors
will use the rhetoric of biology...
-Right. -...when, in fact,
the body is the biggest argument
against the sex binary.
-Totally. -There have been and will always be people
who are born outside of these categories of male or female.
Why should they have to choose "I'm a male or a female"
if they were not born a male or a female?
There are some people who are born without feet.
There are some people who are born with a webbed hand.
We don't teach biology, uh, very-- based on outsiders.
Based on a spectrum of existence?
Intersex people become the problem
-and not society's prejudice... -Totally.
-...for policing people into the binary. -Totally. Totally.
Society can't keep up.
That's why biological studies matter.
So hard for people to keep up.
Like, it's so hard for those people
-and not the people who are being marginalized? -Yes.
I'm sorry I don't have a box of tissues for you.
So let me give you...
* *
RIVER: Being public-repping intersex
is really new for me.
For a while, I didn't know the word existed.
But when I did discover it,
I wasn't ready to face how angry I was.
For a while, I felt like it was easier for me
to express myself artistically.
I did my undergrad at, uh, NYU in acting,
and then I did my graduate, uh, degree
at USC at the School of Cinematic Arts.
I specialize in writing and directing,
and I've been in L.A. ever since.
COHEN: Can you say a little bit about how being intersex
impacted, uh,
your relationships with your parents?
Wow.
I mean, I guess,
at the moment that I found out when I was 12,
-I completely lost trust in them. -ALICIA: Yeah.
I thought I was betrayed by them.
And I think it gave me, like, an authority issue.
SAIFA: A lot of parents consent to
these procedures, like,
not really knowing the long-term effects.
I think a lot of parents do it
because they're really concerned about their kids.
Both my parents are dead, you know, so...
I think my mom carried a lot of guilt.
In my family,
people don't even want to talk about it.
The doctors told my mom, "You shouldn't tell your husband
'cause he can't handle it." Right?
-Um... -It's this whole thing. No one can handle it.
Right. Totally, you know?
What do you have to handle? The way that my body was born?
Like, what-what is there to handle?
(laughter)
For a parent to reconcile that decisions they made
might have actually harmed their child,
that's, like, a really scary thing
for a parent to understand.
My mom has since become a real ally.
She's even testified at New York City Council.
...that Alicia had complete androgen insensitivity.
And if you've heard of that, I applaud you.
I'm a nurse, and I had never heard of it.
It means that while Alicia appears female,
she is genotypically male with XY chromosomes.
We had a wonderful doctor who advised us
to the best of his knowledge at the time,
but never once did he suggest
that we keep an option open for Alicia to tell us who she was.
We should allow our children
the right to identify themselves
rather than rely on the snap judgment of a nurse or doctor
in the chaos of the delivery room.
These practices that surround the birth of intersex children,
they harm everyone.
-Wow. -You know?
* *
RIVER: Every time I come back to New Jersey,
it feels so familiar,
but I feel like I've changed so much.
There's something that I also find, like,
inspiring and beautiful about...
...just how ugly it is.
(laughs)
You know, how, like, grim-looking it can be.
COHEN: Maribel, was coping with River's
childhood medical issues a challenge for you?
COHEN: Was there anything that you wish
you had known more about
or that the doctors had told you differently?
Two.
* I hear the rhythm of life in song, I know the... *
And that she'd just ask God
and pray to God that in my life...
I don't think she'll ever
get my pronouns right.
I think she'll always kind of
use more male language towards me.
But I give my mother a lot of grace just because
I know where she comes from.
She came from poverty.
Coming to this country not knowing English, like,
you know, she's done certain things for me
that I can't even fathom how she did that.
I just know that our relationship transcends even
maybe how I feel about my own gender,
because it's just pure... love.
(voice breaking): She just had faith that...
...that I was gonna pull through in the end, and, um...
Because, uh, there are a lot of moments, and still now,
where I don't, I don't think I'm gonna pull through.
But my mom always knows that I'm gonna...
make it. (chuckles)
(kisses)
MARIBEL: Mm. Be strong.
Mothers are-- all over the world are all alike.
There's guilt, uh,
with things that were done, were done out of compassion...
out of love for your child, I think.
How can I hate my mother for that?
WINFREY: Did you think he would hate you?
-Yes, I did. -Mm-hmm.
-Did you hate yourself? -Yes.
Mm-hmm.
(David sighs heavily)
(ringtone playing)
-ALICIA: Hey. -SAIFA: What's up?
Hey, what's up? I'm Saifa.
ALICIA: I'm Alicia. It's nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you guys, too.
-I'm her mom. -ALICIA: And how old is she?
-(quiet clatter) -She is five.
She just turned-- You can probably hear her.
She, uh, just turned five in January.
-Yeah. -Wow.
SAIFA: I would imagine
-that it hasn't been easy... -Totally.
SAIFA: ...because, you know,
the culture surrounding intersex people,
it's a lot of, like, shame, and it's a lot of secrecy.
ERICKA: When she was born and I was at the hospital,
it-it was very secrecy at first.
Why are all these people here?
One, two, three, four.
Just different people coming in.
"Can you go get the doctor? Can you go get the..."
So they put on her bracelet "unknown."
And when they put on her bracelet "U-N-K"
is when I realized, because,
my-- you know, I compared it to my bracelet,
and on my bracelet, it said, you know, "female."
I had never heard of, like, the term "intersex."
Nothing like that.
And what sort of guidance did they give you?
Everyone just kind of was like, "What do you want to do?"
And we were trying to figure out
what gender we wanted to assign her,
so I had, like, maybe three, four days,
um, in the hospital to kind of decide.
Ericka, did you end up finding out
what (bleep), um, variation is?
Partial androgen insensitivity syndrome.
Like, she has the internal testes,
but she doesn't have a vaginal canal.
And are they trying to, um,
push for you to remove the testes, or no?
No. So they, um, they did mention that, like,
the testes internal can eventually maybe cause cancer,
but it's, like, a rare maybe.
It was just like, "You know what?
"We don't need to do anything right now
till she gets older and can really decide."
-That sounds awesome. -That's so great. Huh.
-ALICIA: Very different than our experiences. -Wow.
So, the only time they actually brought up surgery
was for the intent of,
"Okay, like, if she does decide to be a girl,
"then we could do the vaginal canal,
you know, at an age that you guys feel comfortable with."
ALICIA: If that's something that she actively wants
-when she's old enough... -Totally.
...to make that decision for herself.
-Totally. Totally. -Yeah.
They did the genetic testing on me and her dad,
and her-- it wasn't in-in the dad's side; it was in my side.
Uh, you know, they-they told me not to have kids.
Well, that's deep that they told you
-not to have any more kids... -ALICIA: Yeah.
...because that's very, like, intersexphobic.
Um, because I think it's beautiful.
I think it's a gift when, you know,
parents get to have children that are intersex.
DALKE: Gender identity is really, really complicated,
and it evolves for people over time.
Parents can, and most of the time do,
decide to raise their child as either a girl or a boy,
but their child's gender identity
very likely will change over time.
Unless surgery is medically necessary,
we really should be waiting
to perform irreversible medical and surgical interventions
until a child is old enough to tell us who they are
and to really be able to participate in the decision.
And for some people, we shouldn't do surgery at all.
* *
WOMAN: All right. Actors, go please.
RIVER (as Fool): That serves and seeks for gain,
And follows but for form,
Will pack when it begins to rain,
And leave thee in the storm.
ACTOR (as Gloucester): Well, my good lord,
I have informed her so.
JOE MORTON (as King Lear): Informed her?!
-Dost thou understand me, man? -Ay, my lord.
The king would speak with Regan.
* Way out there beyond this hick town, Barnaby *
* There's a slick town, Barnaby... *
RIVER: If I had seen myself in high school
and known of who I was going to be,
I would have felt so much less alone.
* *
There are no notable intersex actors in the world.
But there are so many intersex people.
My last year at NYU,
I started meeting agents and managers
who all just were like...
Down, wantons, down!
"You're cool, but, like,
we don't really know where to place you."
I thought, "I need to put all my cards on the table,
"and I just need to create art
that is just, like, dripping with River."
Just existing as an intersex person
is grounds for celebration
in a whole world that doesn't see us.
But you know what?
We are here now.
(horn honks)
* *
SAIFA: I think, um, I'm ready to see,
um, the exhibit.
It's gonna be artists' work from all over the world.
It's all intersex people, which is rad.
And I think it's gonna be wild to kind of see myself, like,
butt naked, you know, like, "Wow," you know.
For the art. For the movement.
When I decided to do this photography series,
it's kind of like that final offering of my physical body.
This is not the story
that doctors had already laid out for me.
I get to write my own script.
Oh, wow. (squeals softly)
That's wild. That's so wild.
Wow.
(exhales heavily)
Yeah, so this work is...
Yeah, it's all different bodies.
There is no body the same.
-(stammers) Wait. In there? -(laughs) Yeah, yeah.
-Yeah. Go through. -I didn't see it. (laughs)
WEIB: The one we took. Hold on, I'll bring it.
-Over here. -SAIFA: Right.
You see.
SAIFA: Wow.
Aw. Aw.
Utopia would also have to be a world
where no one ever had to go through trauma.
Right.
SAIFA: Right.
I think what makes me really, like, like, sad--
Like, I was going through the exhibit, and, like,
you know, my heart, like, hurt, you know?
Just-- all over the world,
we've been saying, like, what happened to us,
like, why this should stop.
Like, we just been saying it, you know?
It just makes me so angry.
For 30 years, we've been saying the same thing,
and it's just like they won't fucking listen.
I had wanted to be perceived in the world
as male all the time, and that didn't happen.
I definitely had suicidal thoughts.
I thought to myself,
"Maybe I shouldn't exist."
You know?
But if I don't exist,
no one will ever know my story.
MANI MITCHELL: I just hope that by the time
some years has passed that this practice
of mutilating, um, little children stops
and that we're allowed to live who we are,
unmutilated, and-and we make the decisions about
how that's going to be.
* *
ALICIA: You know, I've been out here shouting
for years, but I'm seeing a lot of stuff picking up.
My goals here are to try to pass a bill
to condemn these surgeries as a city,
and then also to somehow, you know, mandate
that Austin Public Health puts together
a public awareness campaign for parents and doctors.
There are certain topics
that people don't really fight about.
-Totally. Yeah. -You know, it's like, this just is.
-Yeah. -And I wonder if this might be a "just is."
There's no confusion.
I am nervous that if the state catches wind of it,
that they might try to preempt it.
What happens is they have legislation
that targets trans children.
The bills say, "Don't allow these surgeries
and hormones, et cetera, et cetera, for trans kids--"
Which, by the way, these surgeries
never happen on trans kids.
They always happen later in life for trans people.
And then they all have, like, appendices that say,
"But when children are born intersex,
"then you can still provide
these hormones and these surgeries."
They don't view trans kids as normal, so they say,
"Don't give them these lifesaving procedures."
They don't view intersex kids as normal, so they say,
"Force those same procedures on them."
How bizarre and absurd is it?
-Yeah. -I know.
(line ringing)
ALICIA: Hi. It's Alicia,
part of the intersex rally tomorrow.
How are you?
PERSON (over phone): I'm good, Alicia. How are you?
I'm good. I'm just making that last-minute round of calls.
It's like, we-we're doing good work in Texas,
but we also have work to do in New York City.
New York Public Health and Hospitals
has now basically halted
all nonconsensual and medically unnecessary surgeries
on intersex children.
But these surgeries, they're often happening
at private university hospitals...
-Right. -...one of which is-is Weill Cornell here in town.
And Weill Cornell happens to house Dr. Dix Poppas.
DALKE: Dr. Poppas does clitoral surgeries for children
with congenital adrenal hyperplasia.
They might have a clitoris that becomes--
can sometimes grow so much that it looks like a penis.
Um, or might just be a little bit bigger than usual.
The goal is just to make the clitoris just look more normal,
within a very binary and narrow definition
of what it means to be normal.
It is not at all medically necessary.
There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that having
a bigger clitoris is harmful to someone's physical health.
ALICIA: Protests have been happening
about Dix Poppas specifically for years,
and yet things feel really different now.
-Okay, here comes River. -Yeah.
Um, can I have a marker?
SCOUT SILVERSTEIN: Yeah, where are they?
ALICIA: We have black markers, purple markers.
Do you have an idea for a sign? I'm struggling.
RIVER: So here's some.
"Unless I say, scalpels away."
-Yeah. -Ooh.
I love that one. I really like that one.
Do that, like, do that, do that next.
This is the one they made for me.
-"No testes, still my best me." -(laughter)
-Aw. Yeah, I like that, too. -I really dig that one.
Oh, this is good.
"To each their 'testoster-own.'"
-SCOUT: Oh, yeah, that's a good one. -(laughter)
RIVER: Oh, that's great.
I'm gonna do "Intersexual healing," y'all.
-I love that. -SCOUT: When you get that feeling.
(laughter)
That's a good one.
(overlapping chatter)
RIVER: Are you just coming up with these ideas? Wait.
ALICIA: I, like, thought about this for a few weeks.
CASEY OROZCO-POORE: I love that.
-RIVER: What are you doing? -ALICIA: What about the XY?
RIVER: Ooh.
I guess, I just wish that the people...
Anybody tomorrow, you know, going about their day,
has no idea what "intersex" means,
that they are provoked to-to research more about this
and to learn a little bit more.
SCOUT: I think we're at the cusp of something cool
with the New York City legislation.
That, like, that's the first legislation
that has required explicit action
to protect intersex people's bodily autonomy
in the United States.
I think there's a lot of opportunities for doctors
to develop into individuals
who could ally with the intersex community
and give medically necessary care without harming them.
This needs to be as common of an issue
included in the progressive, like, spectrum as trans people,
-as protecting trans youth... -RIVER: Yeah.
...as any-- like, climate change.
SCOUT: I'm optimistic.
I just feel like it's a long game.
It's a long-ass game.
And we are fighting for it.
Because what's the other option?
There is no other option.
* If the sky that we look upon *
* Should tumble and fall *
* Or the mountains should crumble *
* To the sea... *
ALICIA: Hey, everyone.
I'm here at St. Catherine's Park.
We are right by the 68th Street entrance.
We're all ready to go.
If you have any questions, find someone
with an "End Intersex Surgery" shirt like me.
Let's get this started, and we'll see you soon.
-(lively chatter) -That would be really impressive.
Hi, friend. Come on in.
* Oh, darlin', darlin', stand... *
ALICIA: We are going to be marching together
to Weill Cornell.
Let's get this happening!
-What do we want? -GROUP: Body autonomy.
-When do we want it? -GROUP: Now.
SAIFA: These little fires,
these are the things that need to happen
in order to, sort of, start building, like,
this larger movement for bodily autonomy.
GROUP (chanting): Intersex surgery has got to go.
Hey, hey. Ho, ho.
ALICIA: We are starting to be heard
by politicians and the media in little, baby footsteps
that are actually momentous footsteps
when you look at how far we've come.
BRITT MORENO: The Austin City Council approved a resolution
condemning nonconsensual and medically unnecessary surgeries
on intersex children.
ALICIA: Thank you, Mayor, council members.
Thank you for all of you who have agreed
to support item 28 on the agenda,
ensuring that intersex people like me
can live and thrive as we deserve.
I do feel like a sea change is happening.
(applause)
I have a confession to make right off the bat.
I am intersex.
And I'm not gonna lie about it or deny it.
I kind of gained confidence...
...in proclaiming that we are intersex, not invisible.
...that I am intersex, that I have XY chromosomes.
Nobody knew that I was intersex.
I kept it very private.
So we're still here, and we're still gonna kick ass
and be powerful intersex activists.
(overlapping chatter)
We have a duty to fight, and we have a duty to win!
(chanting): End intersex surgery!
(fading): End intersex surgery!
* Oh, stand by me *
* Oh, stand *
* Stand by me, stand by me *
-* Stand * -(whoops)
* By me. *
-(crowd cheers) -Thank you.
Thank you so much, everybody.
-I'm pissed the fuck off. -(crowd cheers)
I'm pissed the fuck off that we have to be here.
I was born without testicles.
The surgery that I had at 16 years old
was a complete violation of my human rights,
and now I live with it every day,
a reminder in between my groin
that I have prosthetic testicles
that were not decided by me.
-And that's fucked up! -That's fucked up!
-It's fucked up. -(crowd murmurs in agreement)
I've had suicidal ideation.
I've had problems with-with drugs and alcohol,
and it's all because of the shame and the trauma
that I experienced because I'm intersex.
We are amongst an intersex revolution,
led first and foremost by our trans siblings and family.
They have paved the way so now we have the strength
to stand in our courage and our bravery.
(crowd cheering)
We need all institutions everywhere,
not just in New York City,
in all, in all hospitals in the United States
and around the world, to end these surgeries.
(chanting): Unless I say, scalpels away.
(crowd joins in): Unless I say, scalpels away.
Unless I say, scalpels away.
COHEN: D-Do you see that you're beautiful?
RIVER: It's so funny because sometimes,
honestly, I won't know what I look like.
And then I look at myself in the mirror.
I'm like, "Oh, my God. I'm stunning."
Since coming out as intersex,
I definitely feel more beautiful.
And I don't mean that just, like, oh, like...
like, I got hot.
But it was more like I got the confidence
to just start showing up however I-I'd want to show up.
Wow, I did it.
That is exciting.
Drama for the gala.
("You Can't Judge a Book by the Cover" by Elise LeGrow playing)
* You can't judge an apple by looking at a tree *
* You can't judge honey by looking at the bee... *
I think the curse of being a filmmaker
is that now I'm super conscious of good light.
This is good light, honestly.
Thank you. (chuckles)
* No, you misjudge me *
* I look like a fighter *
-(shouts) -* But I'm a lover *
* Can't judge a book by looking at the cover, no, no... *
ALICIA: When you're intersex,
you're so defined by doctors and parents
and society's idea of who you should be,
you don't really learn till later in life
who you actually are.
SAIFA: I'm very up-front about who I am.
Some people are into it, some people are not.
But the people who are into it are into it.
Dating and romance, not a problem.
Not at all.
(laughing)
* I said you can't catch me *
* I look like a fighter *
* But I'm a lover *
* Can't judge a book *
-* By looking at the cover * -(laughing)
* No, can't catch me *
* I said you can't catch me... *
(chuckling): What? Is that okay? Is it okay?
* But I'm a lover *
* Can't judge a book *
-* By looking at the cover. * -(song ends)
MORRISON: All those thousands of operations you referred to,
the vast majority of them
were with people called intersexuals, as you know.
And you, yes, were the great guinea pig
for, uh, that kind of surgery,
and your case was probably misunderstood.
So, how do you think those thousands of people feel?
I think that they would like to be given the chance
and the opportunity to
be able to become who they want to become.
I figure they should wait until they're-- they know.
I mean, to me, if you wait just a few extra years,
you could save yourself a lifetime of pain
by doing it like that.
-By just waiting. -By just waiting.
I'm really looking forward to the day when a child is born,
instead of, "It's a boy," or, "It's a girl,"
people put a-- I don't know--
yellow sign on the front lawn that says, "It's a baby."
Um, I want anyone hearing this, watching this,
um, to know that we are ten people
gathered together in Northern California,
but it's just, it's just the beginning,
and I can just feel how this is going to grow.
And, uh, and-and we're gonna change, um,
the way that we're, the way that we're treated.
For liberation for lesbian, gay,
bisexual, transgender, queer and intersex individuals.
-That's what I'm about to sign. -(applause)
* *
I really do think before we die,
there's gonna be a huge revolution,
because it's already starting right now.
COHEN: This is beautiful.
But there's one other thing we want to film.
Wait. We're not doing the little frolicking?
You are doing a little frolicking.
That's what we're about to do right now.
-("Good as Hell" playing) -* I do my hair toss *
* Check my nails *
* Baby, how you feelin'? *
* Hair toss, check my nails *
* Baby, how you feelin'? *
* Whoo, child, tired of the foolish *
* Go on, dust your shoulders off, keep it moving *
* Yes, Lord, step into some new kicks *
* In there, swimwear, going to the pool quick *
* Come now and dry your eyes *
* I know you're a star, you can touch the sky *
* I know that it's hard, but you have to try *
* If you need advice, let me simplify *
* He don't love you anymore *
* Walk your fine self out the door *
* I do my hair toss, check my nails *
* I said, baby, how you feelin'? *
* Hair toss, check my nails *
* I said, baby, how you feelin'? *
* Whoo! *
* Whoo, girl, go on, kick off your shoes *
* Ya gotta take a deep breath, time to focus on you *
* All the big fights, long nights that you been through *
* I got a bottle of tequila I been saving for you *
* Boss up and change your life *
* Go and let it all hang out tonight *
* I know she treat me wrong, but we'll make it right *
* So go and let it all hang out tonight *
* They don't love you anymore *
* So walk your fine self out the door... *
(vocalizing)
* Check my nails, I said, baby, how you feelin'? *
* Hair toss, check my nails *
* I said, baby, how you feelin'? *
* Whoo! *
* I do my hair toss, check my nails *
* Baby, how you feelin'? *
* Hair toss, check my nails *
* Baby, how you feelin'? *
* Whoo! *
* Feelin' good as hell *
* Baby, how you feelin'? Good as hell. *
-(song ends) -(laughter)
RIVER: You didn't see that coming.
-(laughter) -COHEN: You guys got me.
* *
(music ends)