1 00:00:11,163 --> 00:00:13,483 Gosh. OK... 2 00:00:13,523 --> 00:00:15,923 I'm glad this isn't live. (CHUCKLES) 3 00:00:15,963 --> 00:00:17,963 I'm, like, so not on today. 4 00:00:18,003 --> 00:00:20,683 INTERVIEWER: Can you just say your name and pronounce it 5 00:00:20,723 --> 00:00:23,843 so nobody messes it up? Sure, It's Mark Zuckerberg. 6 00:00:23,883 --> 00:00:26,403 How would you like to be identified? Your title? 7 00:00:26,443 --> 00:00:27,963 Founder and CEO? 8 00:00:29,123 --> 00:00:32,683 I was a sophomore at Harvard and we needed to- I guess... 9 00:00:34,363 --> 00:00:37,443 I've never really been asked how the company was started before. 10 00:00:37,483 --> 00:00:39,443 (LAUGHTER) 11 00:00:39,483 --> 00:00:41,723 How does how did Facebook start? 12 00:00:44,043 --> 00:00:45,763 Um, now I'm all embarrassed. 13 00:00:48,323 --> 00:00:50,563 I was there, right from the beginning, 14 00:00:50,603 --> 00:00:53,443 and Mark always carried himself in a way that showed confidence. 15 00:00:53,483 --> 00:00:56,963 You launched Facebook - in your dorm room? - Yeah. 16 00:00:57,003 --> 00:00:59,203 Have a 10 million dollar cheque in your pocket 17 00:00:59,243 --> 00:01:01,163 probably does that to you. 18 00:01:08,763 --> 00:01:11,683 Facebook is like the world's largest media company in history. 19 00:01:11,723 --> 00:01:15,243 And one person, Mark Zuckerberg, is its dictator. 20 00:01:15,283 --> 00:01:19,403 When I first joined, the founders is on the cover of Time magazine, 21 00:01:19,443 --> 00:01:22,443 movies were being made, and now you are being told 22 00:01:22,483 --> 00:01:24,283 you destroyed democracy. 23 00:01:26,203 --> 00:01:29,763 And then his worst nightmare, the threat of regulation. 24 00:01:30,923 --> 00:01:33,483 Congress says they are going to call for his head, 25 00:01:33,523 --> 00:01:36,123 they summon him, then he appears. 26 00:01:41,163 --> 00:01:42,963 REPORTER: Today could be the biggest day 27 00:01:43,003 --> 00:01:44,963 of Mark Zuckerberg's entire career. 28 00:01:45,003 --> 00:01:47,923 The Facebook CEO is set to testify before Congress this afternoon 29 00:01:47,963 --> 00:01:49,843 for the very first time. 30 00:01:49,883 --> 00:01:52,563 REPORTER: The lines out of the door, Julia, I mean, it's insane. 31 00:01:52,603 --> 00:01:55,403 Its definitely very crowded, it's our understanding 32 00:01:55,443 --> 00:01:58,643 that he arrived through the garage, then an elevator upstairs 33 00:01:58,683 --> 00:02:02,203 and he avoided all of the cameras that where trying to stake him out. 34 00:02:02,243 --> 00:02:05,083 REPORTER: The stakes couldn't be any higher for Zuckerberg 35 00:02:05,123 --> 00:02:07,563 after revelations that the personal data 36 00:02:07,603 --> 00:02:11,123 of as many as 87 million users was improperly obtained. 37 00:02:11,163 --> 00:02:14,443 REPORTER: Facebook really is facing a crisis of trust. 38 00:02:14,483 --> 00:02:17,043 Mark, why hasn't anyone been fired over this scandal? 39 00:02:17,083 --> 00:02:19,203 Mr Zuckerberg, is there any regulation? 40 00:02:19,243 --> 00:02:21,243 Are you putting privacy over profits now? 41 00:02:38,883 --> 00:02:43,083 SENATOR: Mr Zuckerberg... are you too powerful? 42 00:02:44,043 --> 00:02:46,043 Do you think you're too powerful? 43 00:02:52,963 --> 00:02:55,443 Today's hearing is extraordinary, 44 00:02:55,483 --> 00:02:58,523 but then Facebook is pretty extraordinary. 45 00:03:01,683 --> 00:03:04,163 We're here because of what you, Mr Zuckerberg, 46 00:03:04,203 --> 00:03:05,843 have described as a breach of trust. 47 00:03:08,443 --> 00:03:13,563 As you said, "This is not likely to be an isolated incident. 48 00:03:15,163 --> 00:03:18,603 We are listening, America is listening, 49 00:03:18,643 --> 00:03:22,043 and quite possibly, the world is listening too. 50 00:03:31,723 --> 00:03:35,603 My top priority has always been our social mission 51 00:03:35,643 --> 00:03:38,403 of connecting people, building community 52 00:03:38,443 --> 00:03:40,683 and bringing the world closer together. 53 00:03:40,723 --> 00:03:44,083 We have faced a number of important issues around privacy, 54 00:03:44,123 --> 00:03:46,123 safety and democracy, 55 00:03:46,163 --> 00:03:48,803 before I talk about the steps we are taking to address them, 56 00:03:48,843 --> 00:03:51,603 I want to talk about how we got here. 57 00:03:51,643 --> 00:03:54,443 Facebook is an idealistic and optimistic company, 58 00:03:54,483 --> 00:03:57,043 for most of our existence... (SPEECH FADES, STOPS) 59 00:03:59,003 --> 00:04:01,723 You know, I was a tech journalist for Fortune magazine. 60 00:04:01,763 --> 00:04:04,243 A PR person called me and said, 61 00:04:04,283 --> 00:04:06,403 "You know, Mark Zuckerberg is coming to New York. 62 00:04:06,443 --> 00:04:09,163 Would you like to meet him? 63 00:04:09,203 --> 00:04:12,523 My first instinct was, "Oh, this is ridiculous. I'm wasting my time. 64 00:04:12,563 --> 00:04:15,763 This is a baby." He was so young. 65 00:04:15,803 --> 00:04:18,603 I never had interviewed someone that young before. 66 00:04:20,883 --> 00:04:24,563 But as soon as he started talking, I settled down fast 67 00:04:24,603 --> 00:04:29,883 because he spoke with some of the most visionary language 68 00:04:29,923 --> 00:04:34,123 that I had experienced talking to anyone ever. 69 00:04:34,163 --> 00:04:37,563 I was sitting there talking to him and said, "You know, I was thinking, 70 00:04:37,603 --> 00:04:39,803 maybe I should write a book about your company." 71 00:04:39,843 --> 00:04:42,003 And he says, "Go for it." 72 00:04:42,043 --> 00:04:46,643 And I was like, "Holy shit, he actually wants to cooperate." 73 00:04:46,683 --> 00:04:49,243 And that was too good of an opportunity to pass up. 74 00:04:51,643 --> 00:04:53,603 He was one of four children. 75 00:04:53,643 --> 00:04:56,643 The only boy and his mother called him the Prince. 76 00:04:59,963 --> 00:05:03,483 He was anointed even within the family, in other words, 77 00:05:03,523 --> 00:05:06,643 and that shaped his worldview tremendously. 78 00:05:10,363 --> 00:05:14,243 He went to one of the most elite prep schools and thrived 79 00:05:14,283 --> 00:05:17,283 and triumphed there. And then, of course, he got into Harvard. 80 00:05:20,323 --> 00:05:22,603 You know, Harvard is an anointment. 81 00:05:23,683 --> 00:05:27,563 You're feeling you have unlimited possibilities. 82 00:05:30,683 --> 00:05:33,083 He really wanted to be noticed. 83 00:05:33,123 --> 00:05:36,603 He wanted to be the smartest kid on campus. But Harvard is full of kids 84 00:05:36,643 --> 00:05:38,883 who were always the smartest kids in their school. 85 00:05:38,923 --> 00:05:42,243 And so Mark Zuckerberg had to find a way to get noticed. 86 00:05:42,283 --> 00:05:44,443 And he did that. 87 00:05:44,483 --> 00:05:47,723 Chair recognises the gentleman from Missouri, Mr Long for 4 minutes. 88 00:05:47,763 --> 00:05:50,403 Thank you, Mr Chairman. One question I would like to ask is, 89 00:05:50,443 --> 00:05:53,843 what was Facemash? And is it still up and running? 90 00:05:54,963 --> 00:05:59,403 No congressman, Facesmash was a prank website that I launched 91 00:05:59,443 --> 00:06:01,963 in college, in my dorm room. 92 00:06:07,003 --> 00:06:10,723 It's on page one, November 4 2003. 93 00:06:10,763 --> 00:06:14,523 "Hot or Not? Website briefly judges looks." 94 00:06:14,563 --> 00:06:16,563 Which is a good headline. 95 00:06:16,603 --> 00:06:19,203 "Zuckerberg wrote a journal published on the site itself, 96 00:06:19,243 --> 00:06:23,643 he wrote 'I need something to occupy my mind, I just need an idea.'" 97 00:06:25,003 --> 00:06:28,403 It sort of spread across campus that there were these rankings 98 00:06:28,443 --> 00:06:30,803 of the hottest students on campus on Facemash. 99 00:06:30,843 --> 00:06:34,563 And everyone wanted to see the top five hottest guys 100 00:06:34,603 --> 00:06:37,843 and the top five hottest girls. And it was a unifying campus event. 101 00:06:37,883 --> 00:06:40,603 Everyone heard about it very quickly all at once. 102 00:06:40,643 --> 00:06:42,883 And it was all we were talking about. 103 00:06:42,923 --> 00:06:45,843 KIRKPATRICK: It was something he just did for the fun, and then 104 00:06:45,883 --> 00:06:49,083 it got a little out of hand because people liked it so much. 105 00:06:49,123 --> 00:06:52,643 It was sexist, it was juvenile. 106 00:06:52,683 --> 00:06:54,763 It did get him in trouble. 107 00:06:54,803 --> 00:06:57,323 I don't think he would have probably been expelled, 108 00:06:57,363 --> 00:07:00,523 but he was called before the disciplinary authorities at the school. 109 00:07:01,763 --> 00:07:04,803 And that made him a celebrated figure on campus. 110 00:07:04,843 --> 00:07:09,403 By the time he launched Facebook, he was already like a famous innovator. 111 00:07:09,443 --> 00:07:12,963 So people wanted to know what he was gonna do next. 112 00:07:15,243 --> 00:07:19,323 So, one night in February of 2004, I'm sitting in my dorm room, 113 00:07:19,363 --> 00:07:23,523 and my roommate comes in, and she shows me on the screen, 114 00:07:23,563 --> 00:07:27,843 this very rudimentary template where your uploading a photo of yourself 115 00:07:27,883 --> 00:07:30,883 and sort of answering a few basic biographical details 116 00:07:30,923 --> 00:07:32,803 and it's called The Facebook. 117 00:07:32,843 --> 00:07:34,843 REPORTER: What is The Facebook exactly? 118 00:07:34,883 --> 00:07:39,243 You sign on, you make a profile about yourself by answering some questions, 119 00:07:39,283 --> 00:07:42,723 entering some information phone numbers, interests, 120 00:07:42,763 --> 00:07:46,923 what books you like, movies, and most importantly, who your friends are. 121 00:07:46,963 --> 00:07:49,443 Then you can browse around 122 00:07:49,483 --> 00:07:52,723 and just find some interesting information about people. 123 00:07:53,763 --> 00:07:57,563 It was definitely romantically-charged. 124 00:07:57,603 --> 00:07:59,363 If you decided you like someone 125 00:07:59,403 --> 00:08:01,803 and you wanted to learn more about them at the time, 126 00:08:01,843 --> 00:08:03,363 you had very few options. 127 00:08:03,403 --> 00:08:06,083 Relationship status, women would put 128 00:08:06,123 --> 00:08:08,363 that they were married to their best friends. 129 00:08:08,403 --> 00:08:11,563 'It's complicated', I think was also one that was popular. 130 00:08:11,603 --> 00:08:14,923 I do remember some of the questions that were on the Facebook template 131 00:08:14,963 --> 00:08:17,523 included political views, everyone put 'very liberal'. 132 00:08:17,563 --> 00:08:21,643 Favourite quote, people would put earnest quotes. 133 00:08:21,683 --> 00:08:23,683 It was earnest. It wasn't ironic at the time. 134 00:08:23,723 --> 00:08:26,763 I just threw it together one week in January. 135 00:08:26,803 --> 00:08:29,243 This was in your dorm room? Yeah. 136 00:08:29,283 --> 00:08:32,843 You launched Facebook - in your dorm room? - Yeah. 137 00:08:34,643 --> 00:08:38,443 I was the 60th user. It must have been only a couple of hours 138 00:08:38,483 --> 00:08:42,243 after he made it go live, but then very shortly after that, 139 00:08:42,283 --> 00:08:44,523 everyone on campus was on it. 140 00:08:59,923 --> 00:09:02,723 In one email exchange, he was kind of joking. 141 00:09:02,763 --> 00:09:05,323 "Wow, all these people are submitting their stuff, 142 00:09:05,363 --> 00:09:08,763 all these photos, they're so dumb, they just give me their data. 143 00:09:08,803 --> 00:09:10,763 They don't understand how precious data is." 144 00:09:22,003 --> 00:09:24,163 "Ha-ha, dumb fucks." 145 00:09:24,203 --> 00:09:27,083 Mark understands when he's very young, 146 00:09:27,123 --> 00:09:30,163 that private data on people can be used. 147 00:09:30,203 --> 00:09:33,043 He doesn't know how, when he's in his early twenties, 148 00:09:33,083 --> 00:09:35,843 he has a certain voyeuristic approach to the data. 149 00:09:35,883 --> 00:09:37,843 "I want to collect data for data sake," 150 00:09:37,883 --> 00:09:41,203 but initially it's just it feels like power. 151 00:09:41,243 --> 00:09:43,643 Data feels like power to him. 152 00:09:46,403 --> 00:09:49,523 SENATOR: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I want to follow up on the questions 153 00:09:49,563 --> 00:09:51,443 around the terms of service. 154 00:09:51,483 --> 00:09:54,883 Your terms of service are about 3,200 words with 30 links. 155 00:09:54,923 --> 00:09:57,283 One of the links is to your data policy, 156 00:09:57,323 --> 00:10:00,363 which is about 2,700 words with 22 links. 157 00:10:00,403 --> 00:10:02,963 And I think the point has been well made that 158 00:10:03,003 --> 00:10:05,603 people really have no earthly idea what they're signing up for 159 00:10:05,643 --> 00:10:09,763 but I'm wondering if you can explain to the billions of users, 160 00:10:09,803 --> 00:10:12,883 in plain language, what are they signing up for? 161 00:10:26,283 --> 00:10:28,963 Silicon Valley was the mecca of software 162 00:10:29,003 --> 00:10:32,003 and innovation and technology. 163 00:10:32,043 --> 00:10:34,203 Amazon-dot-com, this is Lance. 164 00:10:34,243 --> 00:10:37,403 Money was being poured into software companies 165 00:10:37,443 --> 00:10:40,443 and internet companies and it was seen as, sort of, 166 00:10:40,483 --> 00:10:42,563 the promised land of capitalism. 167 00:10:42,603 --> 00:10:45,403 This is definitely very cool. I like it a lot. 168 00:10:45,443 --> 00:10:48,963 Just three years ago I was sleeping on the office floor 169 00:10:49,003 --> 00:10:51,403 and now, obviously, I've got a million dollar car 170 00:10:51,443 --> 00:10:54,043 and quite a few creature comforts. 171 00:10:54,083 --> 00:10:56,883 And Zuckerberg was very impressed by that, that's for sure. 172 00:10:57,763 --> 00:11:00,003 We had this feeling like, OK, all these great companies 173 00:11:00,043 --> 00:11:03,083 come from Silicon Valley. Wouldn't it be cool to spend a summer out there? 174 00:11:03,123 --> 00:11:06,323 Get that experience, but we expected to go back to Harvard in the fall. 175 00:11:06,363 --> 00:11:08,883 The thing that made it so that we didn't 176 00:11:08,923 --> 00:11:10,803 was that Harvard has this great policy 177 00:11:10,843 --> 00:11:13,523 that lets you take as much time off as you want. 178 00:11:13,563 --> 00:11:16,563 So in the summer of 2004, he rented a house 179 00:11:16,603 --> 00:11:18,883 and took a bunch of his Harvard chums out there, 180 00:11:18,923 --> 00:11:21,963 and they started programming Facebook from Palo Alto. 181 00:11:30,243 --> 00:11:32,603 CHAFKIN: You know, the Internet, kind of by definition, 182 00:11:32,643 --> 00:11:35,963 is sort of a lawless place, particularly back then. 183 00:11:36,003 --> 00:11:38,483 REPORTER: Today the US Court of Appeals ruled that Napster 184 00:11:38,523 --> 00:11:40,963 is infringing on copyrighted music, 185 00:11:41,003 --> 00:11:44,163 in essence, letting its users steal songs. 186 00:11:45,603 --> 00:11:47,803 It's kind of, probably, no coincidence 187 00:11:47,843 --> 00:11:52,603 that this sort of wild forum would start in California, 188 00:11:52,643 --> 00:11:55,123 in the original Wild West. 189 00:11:55,163 --> 00:11:58,643 At the time, Silicon Valley companies 190 00:11:58,683 --> 00:12:01,243 were pushing the regulatory envelope. 191 00:12:02,763 --> 00:12:05,563 They were doing things that in various ways 192 00:12:05,603 --> 00:12:09,243 seemed unacceptable and doing it with almost no consequences. 193 00:12:12,123 --> 00:12:15,003 Silicon Valley and the ethos of Silicon Valley 194 00:12:15,043 --> 00:12:17,803 couldn't have been more perfectly suited for Mark Zuckerberg 195 00:12:17,843 --> 00:12:19,603 if he had drawn it up himself. 196 00:12:19,643 --> 00:12:23,083 Because here you have this idea that there are disruptors of society 197 00:12:23,123 --> 00:12:25,283 who are smarter than everyone else, 198 00:12:25,323 --> 00:12:27,403 and they should be given money. 199 00:12:27,443 --> 00:12:31,563 They should be given power because they can create a technology 200 00:12:31,603 --> 00:12:34,123 that will disrupt the whole world. 201 00:12:40,803 --> 00:12:43,163 BALOUN: The life of my profile pictures. 202 00:12:44,123 --> 00:12:46,843 That's my mom. We're in Lake Cuomo. 203 00:12:48,763 --> 00:12:51,883 I'm just amazed at how many photos I have on Facebook 204 00:12:51,923 --> 00:12:55,083 and how they're all... relentlessly optimistic. 205 00:12:56,243 --> 00:12:59,083 I think it's just a celebration of my life actually. 206 00:12:59,123 --> 00:13:02,363 This wouldn't be bad on my gravestone. (CHUCKLES) 207 00:13:02,403 --> 00:13:05,003 Because this is actually what I'd like to be remembered as. 208 00:13:06,163 --> 00:13:07,723 I'm Karel Baloun, 209 00:13:07,763 --> 00:13:11,083 I was Mark Zuckerberg's first senior engineer at Facebook. 210 00:13:12,923 --> 00:13:15,123 I have a master's in Social Psych, 211 00:13:15,163 --> 00:13:18,283 so just the idea of connecting people was really tremendous. 212 00:13:18,323 --> 00:13:21,803 I had been an engineer in Silicon Valley for seven or eight years, 213 00:13:21,843 --> 00:13:24,283 and all of that was in corporations. 214 00:13:24,323 --> 00:13:26,803 So I was ready for a start up. 215 00:13:27,763 --> 00:13:30,003 (INDISTINCT CHATTER) 216 00:13:30,043 --> 00:13:31,843 Alright, what's the safety word? 217 00:13:31,883 --> 00:13:34,283 It was the office above the Chinese restaurant 218 00:13:34,323 --> 00:13:36,363 with the graffiti on the wall. 219 00:13:37,443 --> 00:13:41,123 ALL: One, two, three, four, five, six... 220 00:13:42,043 --> 00:13:44,083 The office was very Spartan. 221 00:13:44,123 --> 00:13:46,243 There were IKEA tables. 222 00:13:46,283 --> 00:13:48,363 We assembled our own chairs the first day. 223 00:13:48,403 --> 00:13:51,963 ALL: ..eleven, twelve, thirteen. Wow! (LAUGHTER) 224 00:13:52,003 --> 00:13:55,323 The amount of energy and confidence in that room was astounding. 225 00:13:55,363 --> 00:13:58,683 You could see Mark coding in the corner on the floor sometimes. 226 00:13:58,723 --> 00:14:01,083 He would just- Instead of sitting at the table, 227 00:14:01,123 --> 00:14:04,603 he would just lie down on the floor with his laptop, flip flops up. 228 00:14:05,443 --> 00:14:08,323 And Mark Zuckerberg's handle is 'Zuck'. 229 00:14:08,363 --> 00:14:10,403 It was a term of endearment. 230 00:14:10,443 --> 00:14:12,443 We were all that close. 231 00:14:14,963 --> 00:14:17,723 The way that I can be unique is by revelling 232 00:14:17,763 --> 00:14:20,403 and being young and just being a little crazy. 233 00:14:20,443 --> 00:14:23,883 So, for example, there's this feature called 'poking' 234 00:14:23,923 --> 00:14:26,603 where you just go to someone's profile and you can poke the person 235 00:14:26,643 --> 00:14:29,603 and like, what does that do? Nothing. It sends them a message. 236 00:14:29,643 --> 00:14:32,083 It's like, "You've been poked", you know? Like, who cares? 237 00:14:32,123 --> 00:14:34,963 It's like, I thought about it when I was drunk or something, you know? 238 00:14:35,003 --> 00:14:37,923 And like people really like poking each other for some reason. 239 00:14:37,963 --> 00:14:40,123 I don't think anyone can really explain. 240 00:14:41,763 --> 00:14:45,643 Mark has a consistent vision that is very clearly articulated 241 00:14:45,683 --> 00:14:48,763 for everyone to understand. He wants to connect people. 242 00:14:48,803 --> 00:14:51,243 That was the supreme novel idea. 243 00:14:51,283 --> 00:14:53,963 Was that we are engaging on things together 244 00:14:54,003 --> 00:14:57,403 and it's bringing people together. 245 00:15:01,523 --> 00:15:04,603 I've been covering tech since 2015. 246 00:15:04,643 --> 00:15:07,843 Somewhere within, almost every story 247 00:15:07,883 --> 00:15:11,123 in Silicon Valley that I've come across... 248 00:15:12,043 --> 00:15:16,723 ...Peter Thiel has been pretty much inside, behind, around. 249 00:15:16,763 --> 00:15:20,083 He's one of the key power brokers. 250 00:15:20,123 --> 00:15:23,483 He's started a company called PayPal with Elon Musk 251 00:15:23,523 --> 00:15:26,683 and from there, built this empire. 252 00:15:26,723 --> 00:15:30,963 The government is so- is so fundamentally evil, 253 00:15:31,003 --> 00:15:34,603 that to deny the evil nature of the government 254 00:15:34,643 --> 00:15:37,683 is equal to denying the existence of the devil. 255 00:15:37,723 --> 00:15:40,643 Kind of what makes Thiel interesting and special 256 00:15:40,683 --> 00:15:44,483 is that he's not just a money guy, he's sort of an influence guy. 257 00:15:44,523 --> 00:15:48,683 Technology is this incredible alternative to politics 258 00:15:48,723 --> 00:15:52,203 and the task in this world where politics has become so broken 259 00:15:52,243 --> 00:15:55,963 and so dysfunctional is to find a way to escape from it. 260 00:15:56,003 --> 00:16:00,363 Most of his beliefs boil down to an idea that billionaires, 261 00:16:00,403 --> 00:16:02,883 in particular tech billionaires, 262 00:16:02,923 --> 00:16:07,003 should be afforded maximum freedom to run the world. 263 00:16:07,043 --> 00:16:11,403 The initial founding vision was that we were going to use technology 264 00:16:11,443 --> 00:16:14,323 to overturn the monetary system of the world. 265 00:16:16,243 --> 00:16:19,723 It's really easy to see why he liked Mark Zuckerberg. 266 00:16:20,803 --> 00:16:24,283 He had been sort of, you know, a bad boy of campus. 267 00:16:24,323 --> 00:16:27,003 He was kind of like pushing the bounds of what was acceptable 268 00:16:27,043 --> 00:16:29,603 and what was normal. 269 00:16:29,643 --> 00:16:33,843 And that is the kind of thing that Peter Thiel absolutely loves. 270 00:16:33,883 --> 00:16:36,123 And you can kind of see why. 271 00:16:36,163 --> 00:16:39,043 Because those kind of rule-breakers are the ones who are likely 272 00:16:39,083 --> 00:16:41,923 to, you know, find opportunities. 273 00:16:44,883 --> 00:16:49,523 KIRKPATRICK: Peter Thiel was the first really serious businessperson 274 00:16:49,563 --> 00:16:54,003 to recognise the scale of what this could become. 275 00:16:54,043 --> 00:16:57,443 Which is why he said, "OK, I'll invest half a million 276 00:16:57,483 --> 00:16:59,483 for 10% of the company." 277 00:17:00,363 --> 00:17:03,803 And the parting words that Thiel left them with, 278 00:17:03,843 --> 00:17:07,683 as they walked out of his office, was, "Just don't fuck it up." 279 00:17:14,003 --> 00:17:18,563 Today, The Facebook has nearly 5 million users across 1,500 campuses. 280 00:17:18,603 --> 00:17:21,163 Joining me to talk about the fast-growing company 281 00:17:21,203 --> 00:17:23,603 is the founder and CEO, Mark Zuckerberg. 282 00:17:23,643 --> 00:17:26,203 Mark, thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. 283 00:17:26,243 --> 00:17:28,523 You received venture capital funding 284 00:17:28,563 --> 00:17:31,083 and received about $13 million. 285 00:17:31,123 --> 00:17:33,603 What was the pitch to VCs? 286 00:17:33,643 --> 00:17:36,363 Oh, we didn't do any pitch. No? 287 00:17:38,323 --> 00:17:40,523 He looked very young... 288 00:17:40,563 --> 00:17:43,523 but he carried himself in a way that showed confidence. 289 00:17:43,563 --> 00:17:46,443 You know, having a 10 million dollar cheque in your pocket 290 00:17:46,483 --> 00:17:48,843 probably does that to you. 291 00:17:51,323 --> 00:17:53,563 THOMPSON: What I can say about the early investors 292 00:17:53,603 --> 00:17:55,803 is they're all hardcore capitalists. 293 00:17:55,843 --> 00:17:57,523 They're all big time Valley people. 294 00:17:57,563 --> 00:18:00,523 They'd much rather have a one in a hundred chance 295 00:18:00,563 --> 00:18:02,603 of becoming a trillion-dollar company 296 00:18:02,643 --> 00:18:04,643 than a guaranteed $10 billion company. 297 00:18:04,683 --> 00:18:06,843 So, they're going to want you to take risks 298 00:18:06,883 --> 00:18:10,363 and they want you to be extreme in what you do. 299 00:18:12,203 --> 00:18:16,443 Mark thought of himself as a renegade leader of opposition 300 00:18:16,483 --> 00:18:19,443 to the established order, 301 00:18:19,483 --> 00:18:23,363 so he would sign his pages of the service. 302 00:18:23,403 --> 00:18:26,483 Sometimes you'd find the phrase, 303 00:18:26,523 --> 00:18:29,443 'Founder, Master and Commander, Enemy of the State. 304 00:18:31,403 --> 00:18:34,563 SENATOR: Thank you, Mr Zuckerberg, for being here. 305 00:18:34,603 --> 00:18:39,003 I note up, until 2014, the mantra or motto of Facebook 306 00:18:39,043 --> 00:18:42,083 was "move fast and break things". 307 00:18:42,123 --> 00:18:43,963 Is that correct? 308 00:18:44,003 --> 00:18:47,043 I don't know when we changed it, but the mantra is currently 309 00:18:47,083 --> 00:18:49,403 "move fast with stable infrastructure", 310 00:18:49,443 --> 00:18:51,923 which is a much less sexy mantra. 311 00:18:51,963 --> 00:18:54,763 Sounds much more boring. But my question is, 312 00:18:54,803 --> 00:18:58,083 during the time it was Facebook's mantra, 313 00:18:58,123 --> 00:19:01,163 do you think some of the... misjudgements 314 00:19:01,203 --> 00:19:04,163 were as a result of that culture or that attitude? 315 00:19:08,203 --> 00:19:11,243 CHAFKIN: Where Thiel influenced Zuckerberg 316 00:19:11,283 --> 00:19:15,723 was in this idea of 'move fast and break things'. 317 00:19:18,923 --> 00:19:22,923 Growing like as big as you can, as fast as you can, 318 00:19:22,963 --> 00:19:25,203 that is the Peter Thiel approach. 319 00:19:25,243 --> 00:19:27,763 Push the gas as hard as you can, 320 00:19:27,803 --> 00:19:31,163 spend as much money as possible on anything you can do to grow, 321 00:19:31,203 --> 00:19:34,083 to ensure that you have absolute network dominance. 322 00:19:35,243 --> 00:19:39,603 Every day we would code and push that immediately to the site. 323 00:19:39,643 --> 00:19:43,003 Then it would hit the site and we would see whether it worked or not. 324 00:19:43,043 --> 00:19:47,003 And if there was a bug, we might roll back what was on the site. 325 00:19:47,043 --> 00:19:49,603 Or we might just push a patch right over it. 326 00:19:49,643 --> 00:19:52,443 And there was very little safety or control. 327 00:19:53,403 --> 00:19:56,043 FRENKEL: There's a video of Mark Zuckerberg 328 00:19:56,083 --> 00:19:59,763 where he goes back to Harvard and he essentially tells students 329 00:19:59,803 --> 00:20:02,523 that they should buck the system the way he did. 330 00:20:02,563 --> 00:20:05,403 I think it's more useful to, like, make things happen 331 00:20:05,443 --> 00:20:07,323 and then apologise later 332 00:20:07,363 --> 00:20:09,963 than it is to make sure that you dot all your I's now 333 00:20:10,003 --> 00:20:12,363 and then, like just not get stepped on. 334 00:20:12,403 --> 00:20:15,563 He loved playing strategy games from a young age 335 00:20:15,603 --> 00:20:18,083 and winning in everything he did 336 00:20:18,123 --> 00:20:22,523 has always been a high priority for him. Dominating, succeeding. 337 00:20:22,563 --> 00:20:26,643 He used to end every meeting at the company by shouting, 338 00:20:26,683 --> 00:20:29,723 "Domination!" That was like his, sort of, catch phrase 339 00:20:29,763 --> 00:20:32,243 that he ended meetings with. And you know, 340 00:20:32,283 --> 00:20:35,603 that reflects a lot about his personality, his goals. 341 00:20:35,643 --> 00:20:38,163 He wanted to dominate, and he wanted to win. 342 00:20:49,523 --> 00:20:52,523 FRENKEL: Mark Zuckerberg needs to distinguish his company 343 00:20:52,563 --> 00:20:55,163 from other social media companies at the time. 344 00:20:55,203 --> 00:20:59,363 Because even though he's incredibly popular among college students, 345 00:20:59,403 --> 00:21:01,603 he still has competition. 346 00:21:01,643 --> 00:21:04,203 There's MySpace, there's Friendster. 347 00:21:05,123 --> 00:21:08,283 And he very quickly understands that... 348 00:21:09,283 --> 00:21:13,203 by making decisions as a company about what people see, 349 00:21:13,243 --> 00:21:15,683 he can create a revolutionary product. 350 00:21:22,403 --> 00:21:26,043 What Mark did was really use the first algorithmic device 351 00:21:26,083 --> 00:21:28,683 that would rank what you saw. 352 00:21:28,723 --> 00:21:30,283 It made decisions for you. 353 00:21:30,323 --> 00:21:32,563 KIRKPATRICK: People competed with each other 354 00:21:32,603 --> 00:21:34,923 to have the most Facebook friends. 355 00:21:34,963 --> 00:21:37,403 "You have 100 friends? I have 200 friends." 356 00:21:37,443 --> 00:21:39,523 Or 2,000, or whatever. 357 00:21:39,563 --> 00:21:42,243 All of a sudden, they could see everything about you 358 00:21:42,283 --> 00:21:45,603 and you could see everything about them in a newly automated fashion. 359 00:21:45,643 --> 00:21:47,483 And many people didn't like that. 360 00:21:52,083 --> 00:21:56,403 They viewed that as an invasion of privacy and it was a crisis. 361 00:21:59,003 --> 00:22:01,643 CHAFKIN: Over and over again in the history of Facebook, 362 00:22:01,683 --> 00:22:06,203 the company would kind of go to a place that was, like, a little edgy. 363 00:22:08,683 --> 00:22:11,643 They just sort of violated everyone's privacy without asking. 364 00:22:12,723 --> 00:22:16,643 Facebook's approach for most of its history was to, you know, 365 00:22:16,683 --> 00:22:19,683 shoot first and ask questions later. 366 00:22:21,963 --> 00:22:25,563 BAROUN: He apologized publicly for how he rolled it out 367 00:22:25,603 --> 00:22:29,243 or for poorly communicating about this new feature. 368 00:22:29,283 --> 00:22:32,563 But the feature was going to be there because it had real utility. 369 00:22:34,483 --> 00:22:38,483 FRENKEL: He wanted you to spend hours scrolling your news feed, 370 00:22:38,523 --> 00:22:41,843 getting this constant sort of stream of data about people you knew 371 00:22:41,883 --> 00:22:44,243 and people you were interested in. 372 00:22:44,283 --> 00:22:48,763 REPORTER: Students looking at Facebook average 18 minutes a day, 373 00:22:48,803 --> 00:22:51,763 and that fact has rocketed the company's value 374 00:22:51,803 --> 00:22:55,083 into the hundreds of millions of dollars, maybe more. 375 00:22:56,123 --> 00:22:59,363 KIRKPATRICK: The company was just growing like crazy at that time. 376 00:23:05,123 --> 00:23:08,203 I got a phone call from an executive at Facebook 377 00:23:08,243 --> 00:23:11,043 that I barely knew, and he said, 378 00:23:11,083 --> 00:23:14,403 "My boss is facing a crisis 379 00:23:14,443 --> 00:23:17,443 and he needs advice 380 00:23:17,483 --> 00:23:20,083 from somebody who really understands Silicon Valley. 381 00:23:20,123 --> 00:23:22,323 Would you take a meeting with Mark Zuckerberg?" 382 00:23:23,203 --> 00:23:27,523 And so Mark Zuckerberg came to my office 383 00:23:27,563 --> 00:23:30,363 and he looked just like Mark Zuckerberg. I mean, 384 00:23:30,403 --> 00:23:32,883 the grey hoodie, the jeans. 385 00:23:34,043 --> 00:23:38,683 And he goes, "Yahoo! has offered a billion dollars to buy Facebook. 386 00:23:40,003 --> 00:23:42,123 And everybody I know, including my parents, 387 00:23:42,163 --> 00:23:44,523 has told me to take the money." 388 00:23:44,563 --> 00:23:46,843 So I looked at Mark and I said, 389 00:23:46,883 --> 00:23:49,043 "Well, there's only one that question matters. 390 00:23:49,083 --> 00:23:51,883 What do you want? Do you want to sell the company?" 391 00:23:54,723 --> 00:23:58,403 BAROUN: He refused, famously, to sell Facebook to Yahoo! 392 00:23:58,443 --> 00:24:02,683 for a billion dollars and everybody was against him. 393 00:24:02,723 --> 00:24:05,083 It's a lot of money for all of us, right? 394 00:24:05,123 --> 00:24:07,243 None of us were independently wealthy. 395 00:24:07,283 --> 00:24:09,963 He was saying, this is a valuable idea 396 00:24:10,003 --> 00:24:12,763 and I can execute it better than Yahoo! 397 00:24:12,803 --> 00:24:15,803 That type of confidence and fearlessness... 398 00:24:16,603 --> 00:24:19,603 ...when even technical obstacles are daunting. 399 00:24:20,483 --> 00:24:22,403 Well, it's courage. 400 00:24:23,843 --> 00:24:26,123 If they'd sold to Yahoo! at a billion, 401 00:24:26,163 --> 00:24:29,803 they would all be quite rich, but they were going to be really rich. 402 00:24:31,163 --> 00:24:34,603 More and more press attention from people even like myself, 403 00:24:34,643 --> 00:24:37,003 was, you know, flattering them 404 00:24:37,043 --> 00:24:39,483 and making them feel the centre of the universe. 405 00:24:39,523 --> 00:24:42,763 And they were like, "Yeah, we are really the cool ones." 406 00:24:42,803 --> 00:24:45,603 INTERVIEWER: Let's talk about business. There are reports 407 00:24:45,643 --> 00:24:47,803 that this company is still not breaking even. 408 00:24:47,843 --> 00:24:52,363 And what shocked me when I read that was with 175 million customers, 409 00:24:52,403 --> 00:24:55,203 how can any business not make money? 410 00:24:55,243 --> 00:24:57,323 What's the explanation for that? 411 00:24:58,283 --> 00:25:01,483 Zuckerberg was still living on a mattress on the floor, 412 00:25:01,523 --> 00:25:03,923 you know, hardly ever even going home 413 00:25:03,963 --> 00:25:06,763 because he was just working around the clock. 414 00:25:06,803 --> 00:25:09,123 He cared very little about anything else 415 00:25:09,163 --> 00:25:11,923 other than user growth and user engagement. 416 00:25:16,563 --> 00:25:19,523 Well after Facebook had been going for... 417 00:25:19,563 --> 00:25:22,123 three years or so, 418 00:25:22,163 --> 00:25:25,883 the investors were increasingly determined that 419 00:25:25,923 --> 00:25:29,083 somebody had to figure out how to make a lot of money out of this 420 00:25:29,123 --> 00:25:31,963 tremendous cultural and community success. 421 00:25:32,963 --> 00:25:35,083 Oh, wow. That's awesome. How are you? 422 00:25:35,123 --> 00:25:38,243 REPORTER: Sheryl Sandberg is an unlikely revolutionary. 423 00:25:38,283 --> 00:25:42,083 At 43, she is one of the few women at the top of corporate America. 424 00:25:42,123 --> 00:25:44,843 Sheryl changed everything. 425 00:25:44,883 --> 00:25:47,323 She was a practice business leader 426 00:25:47,363 --> 00:25:51,483 who had, in many ways, built the advertising business at Google. 427 00:25:51,523 --> 00:25:53,323 Panama hats. 428 00:25:53,363 --> 00:25:55,843 Let's say I was looking for Panama hats today. Here I go. 429 00:25:55,883 --> 00:25:59,203 Panama Hats Direct, a very specific search, 430 00:25:59,243 --> 00:26:01,403 looking for a very specific product. 431 00:26:01,443 --> 00:26:04,043 And the advertiser is able to find me 432 00:26:04,083 --> 00:26:05,843 and I'm looking for that product. 433 00:26:05,883 --> 00:26:08,723 There is a crucial, crucial moment in the evolution of Facebook. 434 00:26:08,763 --> 00:26:12,083 Sheryl Sandberg comes on board and is given the mandate, 435 00:26:12,123 --> 00:26:14,123 'figure out how this thing can make money.' 436 00:26:14,163 --> 00:26:17,323 We just literally had dinner at my house 437 00:26:17,363 --> 00:26:19,203 and Mark would say, sometimes, you know, 438 00:26:19,243 --> 00:26:22,483 "I'm so sorry, I can't invite you over for dinner." 439 00:26:22,523 --> 00:26:25,163 But at the time, he only had like a one room apartment. 440 00:26:25,203 --> 00:26:27,963 He never had any furniture, make it a futon. 441 00:26:28,003 --> 00:26:30,963 He thought that would be awkward, which it would have been. 442 00:26:31,003 --> 00:26:32,843 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 443 00:26:32,883 --> 00:26:34,603 Thank you all. 444 00:26:34,643 --> 00:26:38,083 There are lots of choices that she and they could have made. 445 00:26:38,123 --> 00:26:41,123 And they made a choice to sell targeted advertising 446 00:26:41,163 --> 00:26:43,323 based on individual's data. 447 00:26:45,283 --> 00:26:47,803 The thing about Facebook that was so unique 448 00:26:47,843 --> 00:26:51,403 was it had a whole lot of data that you had voluntarily provided, 449 00:26:51,443 --> 00:26:53,803 where you lived, how old you were, 450 00:26:53,843 --> 00:26:57,283 whether you were in a relationship, what your interests are. 451 00:26:57,323 --> 00:27:00,163 These are invaluable pieces of information 452 00:27:00,203 --> 00:27:02,363 for people trying to sell ads. 453 00:27:02,403 --> 00:27:04,843 BAROUN: People were uploading photos, 454 00:27:04,883 --> 00:27:08,683 people were posting status updates to their feed. 455 00:27:08,723 --> 00:27:11,203 But it was really about what's going on in my mind right now. 456 00:27:12,563 --> 00:27:15,043 The prompt is still the same. What's on your mind? 457 00:27:15,083 --> 00:27:17,763 But people are really using it in real time 458 00:27:17,803 --> 00:27:19,683 to say what was on their mind. 459 00:27:19,723 --> 00:27:24,283 Sheryl Sandberg realised that a system with that many users 460 00:27:24,323 --> 00:27:27,563 was going to be a huge opportunity for advertising. 461 00:27:29,163 --> 00:27:32,123 And from the time she arrived, 462 00:27:32,163 --> 00:27:33,923 they started making more money. 463 00:27:38,883 --> 00:27:40,923 INTERVIEWER: Are you Facebook friends with Mark? 464 00:27:40,963 --> 00:27:44,483 Yes. Yeah, I have been since the beginning. 465 00:27:44,523 --> 00:27:46,603 He just posted he's going to have another baby. 466 00:27:46,643 --> 00:27:48,963 And so I liked the fact that he's having another baby, 467 00:27:49,003 --> 00:27:51,483 wished him a Happy New Year at the beginning of this year. 468 00:27:51,523 --> 00:27:54,803 And he liked back in my comment, wishing him a happy New Year. 469 00:27:54,843 --> 00:27:58,523 I found myself in the mid-2000's 470 00:27:58,563 --> 00:28:01,003 working at a company called Cisco 471 00:28:01,043 --> 00:28:02,723 and Facebook came knocking on my door. 472 00:28:02,763 --> 00:28:06,123 (PHONE RINGING) Good afternoon, Facebook how may I help you? 473 00:28:06,163 --> 00:28:08,843 When I arrived. Wow. It was chaotic. 474 00:28:15,323 --> 00:28:18,923 I just found these really smart, 475 00:28:18,963 --> 00:28:22,163 really high energy people bouncing around. 476 00:28:27,883 --> 00:28:31,483 In those, sort of, early 20-tens, 477 00:28:31,523 --> 00:28:34,763 if you worked for Facebook, everyone was fascinated by it. 478 00:28:36,203 --> 00:28:39,003 You did feel like, in a sense, an ambassador 479 00:28:39,043 --> 00:28:43,083 for this amazing force that was potentially gonna change the world. 480 00:28:44,043 --> 00:28:46,203 Um... I'm sorry. I'm kind of nervous. 481 00:28:46,243 --> 00:28:48,443 We have the President of the United States here. 482 00:28:48,483 --> 00:28:50,723 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 483 00:28:57,003 --> 00:28:59,283 My name is Barack Obama 484 00:28:59,323 --> 00:29:03,083 and I'm the guy who got Mark to wear a jacket and tie. 485 00:29:03,123 --> 00:29:05,123 (LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE) 486 00:29:05,163 --> 00:29:07,323 Thank you. 487 00:29:07,363 --> 00:29:10,083 And, in fact, if you'd like, Mark, we can take our jackets off. 488 00:29:10,123 --> 00:29:12,123 That's good. 489 00:29:13,883 --> 00:29:18,083 Part of what... makes for a healthy democracy 490 00:29:18,123 --> 00:29:21,883 is when you've got citizens who are informed, who are engaged. 491 00:29:21,923 --> 00:29:25,563 And what Facebook allows us to do 492 00:29:25,603 --> 00:29:27,843 is make sure this isn't just a one-way conversation. 493 00:29:28,683 --> 00:29:31,523 Well, it was widely said at the time of Obama's election 494 00:29:31,563 --> 00:29:33,723 that one of the ways he won 495 00:29:33,763 --> 00:29:36,523 was by so effectively campaigning on Facebook. 496 00:29:36,563 --> 00:29:39,123 Who is Barack Obama? 497 00:29:39,163 --> 00:29:42,763 The answer is right there on my Facebook page. 498 00:29:44,083 --> 00:29:46,803 That was a deeply impressive to Zuckerberg 499 00:29:46,843 --> 00:29:49,363 and made him feel pretty puffed up. I'd say, yeah. 500 00:29:49,403 --> 00:29:52,843 "Hey, we helped get the president elected." That was very heady. 501 00:29:52,883 --> 00:29:54,963 Hi, this is Lady Gaga. 502 00:29:55,003 --> 00:29:58,243 And I'm saying hello to all of my little monsters on Facebook. 503 00:29:58,283 --> 00:30:00,323 I love you guys so much. 504 00:30:01,683 --> 00:30:04,243 CHAFKIN: You know, this clip, Lady Gaga shows back then, 505 00:30:04,283 --> 00:30:06,283 Facebook was unambiguously cool. 506 00:30:08,163 --> 00:30:11,403 REPORTER: Here is what Time magazine said in 2010 507 00:30:11,443 --> 00:30:13,683 when it named Zuckerberg 'Person of the Year', 508 00:30:13,723 --> 00:30:17,603 quote, "In less than seven years, Zuckerberg wired together 509 00:30:17,643 --> 00:30:20,843 a 12th of humanity into a single network, 510 00:30:20,883 --> 00:30:24,523 thereby creating a social entity almost twice as large 511 00:30:24,563 --> 00:30:27,963 as the United States, worth more than $80 billion. 512 00:30:28,003 --> 00:30:31,123 It has turned into something that has changed the way human beings 513 00:30:31,163 --> 00:30:33,883 relate to one another on a species-wide scale. 514 00:30:35,083 --> 00:30:39,403 Anybody. Literally anybody with no technical skills 515 00:30:39,443 --> 00:30:44,323 had the power of the mainstream media outlet and in their hands. 516 00:30:44,363 --> 00:30:46,243 REPORTER: Mark Zuckerberg says 517 00:30:46,283 --> 00:30:50,003 Facebook's almost guaranteed to reach the 1 billion user mark. 518 00:30:51,323 --> 00:30:53,203 We were empowering people, 519 00:30:53,243 --> 00:30:55,723 people who previously have been disempowered 520 00:30:55,763 --> 00:30:58,723 and that was a noble mission, and we were all signed up for that. 521 00:30:58,763 --> 00:31:01,123 And that's what got you out of bed in the morning, 522 00:31:01,163 --> 00:31:05,403 was putting the power of a major communication platform 523 00:31:05,443 --> 00:31:07,443 into the hands of an ordinary person, 524 00:31:07,483 --> 00:31:10,043 wherever they were in the world, at no cost. 525 00:31:22,123 --> 00:31:26,123 Back in 2010, we had some Arabic speakers already in the team 526 00:31:26,163 --> 00:31:29,483 who were looking at content and they flagged the fact 527 00:31:29,523 --> 00:31:31,883 they were seeing interesting stuff. 528 00:31:31,923 --> 00:31:34,563 (INDISTINCT ARABIC SHOUTS) 529 00:31:37,763 --> 00:31:40,123 In particular, there was an Egyptian page 530 00:31:40,163 --> 00:31:42,963 calling for a massive demonstration. 531 00:31:43,003 --> 00:31:45,123 Did you plan a revolution? 532 00:31:46,123 --> 00:31:47,883 Yeah, we did. 533 00:31:52,203 --> 00:31:54,603 Here were all these people in countries like Tunisia, 534 00:31:54,643 --> 00:31:57,003 Syria and Egypt 535 00:31:57,043 --> 00:32:01,003 who could create their own alternative media 536 00:32:01,043 --> 00:32:05,883 in opposition to a state that control the media 537 00:32:05,923 --> 00:32:08,883 to within an inch of its life and allowed them no space. 538 00:32:11,043 --> 00:32:13,163 They created the revolution, not us. 539 00:32:13,203 --> 00:32:15,923 We weren't there on the barricades, 540 00:32:15,963 --> 00:32:19,043 but we had given them a media tool. 541 00:32:19,083 --> 00:32:22,203 First Tunisia, now Egypt. What's next? 542 00:32:22,243 --> 00:32:24,283 At Facebook. 543 00:32:24,323 --> 00:32:27,203 Facebook? You're giving Facebook a lot of credit for this. 544 00:32:28,403 --> 00:32:30,003 Yeah, for sure. 545 00:32:30,043 --> 00:32:33,483 I want to meet Mark Zuckerberg one day and thank him, actually. 546 00:32:33,523 --> 00:32:36,203 (ALL SINGING IN ARABIC) 547 00:32:39,403 --> 00:32:42,163 An Arab Spring was the point at which, I think, 548 00:32:42,203 --> 00:32:43,963 a lot of the world woke up to the fact 549 00:32:44,003 --> 00:32:46,003 this wasn't a platform for kids. 550 00:32:46,043 --> 00:32:48,963 It was actually influential and potentially world-changing. 551 00:32:49,003 --> 00:32:51,123 And Mark was feted. 552 00:32:51,163 --> 00:32:53,563 I would go and see government ministers in Europe 553 00:32:53,603 --> 00:32:56,163 who previously had not been particularly interested 554 00:32:56,203 --> 00:32:58,923 who was suddenly going, "Oh, you know, this Facebook thing, 555 00:32:58,963 --> 00:33:01,483 actually I want to know about it. It is interesting. 556 00:33:01,523 --> 00:33:05,363 I want to meet Mark Zuckerberg." Because now politicians 557 00:33:05,403 --> 00:33:07,963 see the platform as politically powerful. 558 00:33:08,003 --> 00:33:11,203 And there was a glow for a period of time after that. 559 00:33:13,403 --> 00:33:16,603 REPORTER: Today, an astronomical benchmark 560 00:33:16,643 --> 00:33:21,283 as Facebook officially announces it now has 1 billion users, 561 00:33:21,323 --> 00:33:23,803 one seventh of the world's population. 562 00:33:34,403 --> 00:33:36,523 I joined a month after the Arab Spring. 563 00:33:37,803 --> 00:33:41,723 I knew that they had made me the offer on Valentine's Day of 2011. 564 00:33:41,763 --> 00:33:44,323 And so I posted, "I'm excited that I'll be joining 565 00:33:44,363 --> 00:33:46,523 the Facebook DC team very soon." 566 00:33:46,563 --> 00:33:49,843 In all honesty, I'm having a lot of feelings kind of flood back 567 00:33:49,883 --> 00:33:51,723 of what that felt like on that first day, 568 00:33:51,763 --> 00:33:53,963 walking through the doors, having no idea 569 00:33:54,003 --> 00:33:56,643 what the next ten years were going to have in store for me. 570 00:33:59,963 --> 00:34:03,123 In 2011-ish, 2012, 571 00:34:03,163 --> 00:34:07,483 Facebook moved to the old Sun Microsystems campus. 572 00:34:10,243 --> 00:34:14,403 Sun Microsystems was a very prominent company in Silicon Valley 573 00:34:14,443 --> 00:34:18,003 and ended up going under. 574 00:34:20,923 --> 00:34:24,723 Mark was very worried about being out-innovated. 575 00:34:25,763 --> 00:34:29,243 You don't want to become Friendster. You don't want to become MySpace. 576 00:34:29,283 --> 00:34:31,523 You had to keep moving. You had to keep doing stuff, 577 00:34:31,563 --> 00:34:35,163 because if you didn't, someone was going to run faster than you. 578 00:34:36,643 --> 00:34:40,003 Every day when you left, seeing that Sun Microsystems logo 579 00:34:40,043 --> 00:34:42,523 was meant to be a reminder. 580 00:34:42,563 --> 00:34:45,203 You could be this big behemoth one day 581 00:34:45,243 --> 00:34:49,603 and tomorrow you could be having a rummage sale to sell your desks. 582 00:34:51,963 --> 00:34:54,243 KIRKPATRICK: He did not want competition 583 00:34:54,283 --> 00:34:56,523 in the social media industry. 584 00:34:56,563 --> 00:34:59,043 No business leader likes competition. 585 00:34:59,083 --> 00:35:01,243 He always saw Facebook as an industry in itself. 586 00:35:03,483 --> 00:35:07,243 FRENKEL: Mark has always been a deeply competitive person. 587 00:35:10,323 --> 00:35:13,763 He didn't just want to be famous. He wanted to be historic. 588 00:35:16,003 --> 00:35:18,763 CHAFKIN: Facebook is like the largest media company in history, 589 00:35:18,803 --> 00:35:22,083 and one person, Mark Zuckerberg, is its dictator. 590 00:35:23,403 --> 00:35:27,083 And that was set up early on by Peter Thiel. 591 00:35:27,123 --> 00:35:30,723 Thiel was instrumental in creating a situation where Zuckerberg 592 00:35:30,763 --> 00:35:34,323 had this kind of like, controlling share in the company. 593 00:35:34,363 --> 00:35:36,243 He set Facebook up 594 00:35:36,283 --> 00:35:38,363 so that Zuckerberg could do whatever he wants. 595 00:35:38,403 --> 00:35:41,483 Peter Thiel really backed the idea of the 'founder-genius'. 596 00:35:41,523 --> 00:35:43,563 You founded this company. 597 00:35:43,603 --> 00:35:45,963 You came up with the idea of a social network. 598 00:35:46,003 --> 00:35:49,003 You are the genius and you need to be in control of this. 599 00:35:49,043 --> 00:35:51,283 You need to be calling all the shots. 600 00:35:51,323 --> 00:35:53,803 To the degree that we will structure your company 601 00:35:53,843 --> 00:35:55,843 so nobody can hold you accountable. 602 00:35:56,883 --> 00:36:00,763 That gave Zuckerberg essentially complete control over this company, 603 00:36:00,803 --> 00:36:02,763 which continues to this day. 604 00:36:04,043 --> 00:36:07,323 Basically, Zuckerberg could do whatever he wants. 605 00:36:07,363 --> 00:36:09,683 Facebook is buying Instagram. 606 00:36:09,723 --> 00:36:11,923 That's a popular photo sharing service 607 00:36:11,963 --> 00:36:14,483 for $1 billion in cash and stock. 608 00:36:14,523 --> 00:36:17,763 Zuckerberg reportedly negotiated the deal to acquire Instagram 609 00:36:17,803 --> 00:36:20,763 for a billion dollars without alerting the board 610 00:36:20,803 --> 00:36:22,443 or consulting with the board. 611 00:36:22,483 --> 00:36:26,323 Instagram was tiny, but it was growing very, very rapidly. 612 00:36:26,363 --> 00:36:29,163 It was obvious that it was cool 613 00:36:29,203 --> 00:36:32,083 and the cool people were already using it, 614 00:36:32,123 --> 00:36:34,123 even though it only had 30 million users. 615 00:36:34,163 --> 00:36:36,563 It had every major, you know, 616 00:36:36,603 --> 00:36:39,003 smart person in Silicon Valley using it. 617 00:36:40,003 --> 00:36:42,923 He already knew that he was a little behind the curve 618 00:36:42,963 --> 00:36:45,363 on adapting to the smartphone era 619 00:36:45,403 --> 00:36:48,963 because Facebook had been built for the PC era, 620 00:36:49,003 --> 00:36:52,363 and Instagram was designed for the mobile age. 621 00:36:52,403 --> 00:36:55,563 He was very concerned that if he didn't buy Instagram, 622 00:36:55,603 --> 00:36:58,803 it would be a major competitive problem for him. 623 00:37:01,403 --> 00:37:03,283 Everyone was convinced that Zuckerberg 624 00:37:03,323 --> 00:37:06,403 spending a billion dollars for Instagram was a sign that, 625 00:37:06,443 --> 00:37:09,523 you know, the world had gone crazy because, like, how could a company 626 00:37:09,563 --> 00:37:12,683 with few dozen employees possibly be worth a billion dollars? 627 00:37:12,723 --> 00:37:14,883 - What is that? - I know! (OVERLAPPING CHATTER) 628 00:37:15,803 --> 00:37:19,403 It's got 30 million users. Just like a social media platform for photos? 629 00:37:19,443 --> 00:37:21,763 It's retro. Retro- Can it make me look younger? 630 00:37:21,803 --> 00:37:24,603 ANNOUNCER: Give a hand to the Instagram founders! 631 00:37:25,883 --> 00:37:28,403 The idea is to sell your company to a company 632 00:37:28,443 --> 00:37:31,203 that's gonna be a rocket ship. And I remember Mike and I talking 633 00:37:31,243 --> 00:37:35,763 about, like, do we believe that by being part of this larger company, 634 00:37:35,803 --> 00:37:39,523 Instagram can reach an even higher potential even more quickly? 635 00:37:39,563 --> 00:37:41,803 And that was the bet that we made. 636 00:37:41,843 --> 00:37:45,443 Facebook makes money by collecting data on its users and selling ads. 637 00:37:46,403 --> 00:37:49,963 Instagram was important because you were that much more likely 638 00:37:50,003 --> 00:37:52,163 to share photos which showed things in them 639 00:37:52,203 --> 00:37:53,963 of what you might be interested in. 640 00:37:54,003 --> 00:37:56,683 And if you're trying to sell somebody a product, be it a car 641 00:37:56,723 --> 00:38:00,443 or T-shirt, it could show where you were in terms of income bracket. 642 00:38:00,483 --> 00:38:03,083 And so a lot of these things would have been really lucrative 643 00:38:03,123 --> 00:38:04,803 for Mark Zuckerberg. 644 00:38:04,843 --> 00:38:07,523 REPORTER: There's a clue to the potential financial attraction 645 00:38:07,563 --> 00:38:09,283 the moment you download Instagram. 646 00:38:09,323 --> 00:38:12,123 30 million worldwide now have the app. 647 00:38:12,163 --> 00:38:14,763 Every one of them has handed over their personal details, 648 00:38:14,803 --> 00:38:17,003 creating a bulging database, 649 00:38:17,043 --> 00:38:18,763 now the property of Facebook. 650 00:38:19,763 --> 00:38:22,923 CHAFKIN: The same with WhatsApp, you know, paying billions of dollars 651 00:38:22,963 --> 00:38:25,883 for this messaging platform that had almost no revenue. 652 00:38:27,683 --> 00:38:30,803 SENATOR: Mr Zuckerberg, would you be comfortable sharing with us 653 00:38:30,843 --> 00:38:33,363 the name of the hotel you stayed in last night? 654 00:38:33,403 --> 00:38:35,403 Um. (AWKWARD CHUCKLE) 655 00:38:37,883 --> 00:38:39,883 Uh, no. 656 00:38:41,923 --> 00:38:44,923 If you messaged anybody this week, 657 00:38:44,963 --> 00:38:48,243 would you share with us the names of the people you messaged? 658 00:38:48,283 --> 00:38:51,843 Senator, no, I would probably not choose to do that publicly here. 659 00:38:51,883 --> 00:38:54,123 I think that may be what this is all about. 660 00:38:55,443 --> 00:38:57,323 Your right to privacy. 661 00:38:57,363 --> 00:38:59,563 The limits of your right to privacy 662 00:38:59,603 --> 00:39:02,683 and how much you give away in modern America, 663 00:39:02,723 --> 00:39:06,123 in the name of, quote, "connecting people around the world." 664 00:39:07,243 --> 00:39:09,803 Question, basically of... 665 00:39:09,843 --> 00:39:12,243 what information Facebook is collecting, 666 00:39:12,283 --> 00:39:14,883 who they're sending it to, and whether they ever asked me, 667 00:39:14,923 --> 00:39:17,363 in advance, my permission to do that. 668 00:39:17,403 --> 00:39:20,483 Is that a fair thing for a user of Facebook to expect? 669 00:39:25,043 --> 00:39:28,323 The Zuckerberg Files came out of... a project where I was thinking 670 00:39:28,363 --> 00:39:31,243 about how does Zuckerberg talk about privacy? 671 00:39:31,283 --> 00:39:34,603 So I started collecting blog posts and speeches or interviews 672 00:39:34,643 --> 00:39:36,563 that he gave around privacy 673 00:39:36,603 --> 00:39:39,563 and decided to build a digital archive. 674 00:39:39,603 --> 00:39:41,883 And so we've created the Zuckerberg Files 675 00:39:41,923 --> 00:39:45,043 and have been collecting every single thing that he says in public. 676 00:39:45,083 --> 00:39:49,003 One of the earliest clips that we have is a family video 677 00:39:49,043 --> 00:39:51,083 of when Mark Zuckerberg received 678 00:39:51,123 --> 00:39:54,483 his acceptance letter into Harvard University. 679 00:39:54,523 --> 00:39:58,323 One of his other first interviews he gave to some filmmakers 680 00:39:58,363 --> 00:40:01,043 is him sitting on a couch in shorts with a red cup, 681 00:40:01,083 --> 00:40:03,643 probably with beer in it, and a T-shirt just hanging out 682 00:40:03,683 --> 00:40:05,483 and giving an interview. 683 00:40:05,523 --> 00:40:08,763 I mean, whether we have something that will last for a long time 684 00:40:08,803 --> 00:40:10,883 or is this just, like, kind of a cool toy 685 00:40:10,923 --> 00:40:13,163 for people to play with now? We'll see. 686 00:40:13,203 --> 00:40:15,563 And that's one of the fun things about the archive. 687 00:40:15,603 --> 00:40:19,043 We can see how he's kind of evolved and how his image changes. 688 00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:22,323 And one of the moments when that happened was an interview he gave 689 00:40:22,363 --> 00:40:25,323 where there were really hot lights, some controversies going on, 690 00:40:25,363 --> 00:40:28,203 some really hard questions. He was sweating onstage. 691 00:40:28,243 --> 00:40:31,083 INTERVIEWER: You want to take off - the hoodie? - Woah. 692 00:40:32,123 --> 00:40:33,963 Alright. That's OK. 693 00:40:34,003 --> 00:40:36,723 You could tell he was uncomfortable. He took off his sweatshirt 694 00:40:36,763 --> 00:40:41,363 and inside of his sweatshirt is like this kind of weird company logo. 695 00:40:41,403 --> 00:40:43,843 We print our mission on the inside. What? 696 00:40:43,883 --> 00:40:45,683 What is it? "Making the..." 697 00:40:45,723 --> 00:40:47,883 Making the world more open and connected. 698 00:40:47,923 --> 00:40:49,923 Oh, my God. It's like a secret cult. 699 00:40:49,963 --> 00:40:52,243 (LAUGHTER) 700 00:40:52,283 --> 00:40:55,203 And really, from that point on, I think then they brought in 701 00:40:55,243 --> 00:40:57,643 the corporate communication heavyweights, 702 00:40:57,683 --> 00:40:59,363 gave him some speech training. 703 00:40:59,403 --> 00:41:02,563 That's when we start seeing the jokes about Zuckerberg as a robot. 704 00:41:02,603 --> 00:41:06,843 And, you know, and that there's this kind of coldness to how he engages. 705 00:41:08,643 --> 00:41:11,763 More recently, he's been posting more about his family... 706 00:41:12,803 --> 00:41:16,123 ...including now occasionally pictures of his children. 707 00:41:16,163 --> 00:41:19,403 But interestingly, we rarely see his children's faces. 708 00:41:19,443 --> 00:41:22,483 So, I'm assuming he wants to make sure his kids faces 709 00:41:22,523 --> 00:41:25,243 don't get put online for privacy reasons 710 00:41:25,283 --> 00:41:28,403 or any kind of face recognition or for their own safety. 711 00:41:28,443 --> 00:41:31,243 But of course, his platform has built tools 712 00:41:31,283 --> 00:41:33,283 to scan our pictures and our faces. 713 00:41:35,283 --> 00:41:38,763 So, he's taking these steps to protect his family, you know, 714 00:41:38,803 --> 00:41:41,963 in ways that maybe many users don't understand how they should be 715 00:41:42,003 --> 00:41:45,723 doing similar things to protect their own privacy on his platform. 716 00:41:49,163 --> 00:41:51,963 Facebook, as I said, Josh, hitting another new all time high today, 717 00:41:52,003 --> 00:41:54,763 above 70 bucks. It just seems unstoppable. 718 00:41:54,803 --> 00:41:56,683 They like every move he makes, now. 719 00:41:56,723 --> 00:41:59,803 I don't know how much longer this lasts, but for right now, 720 00:41:59,843 --> 00:42:02,483 it seems he can do no wrong, and the stock price reflects that. 721 00:42:21,603 --> 00:42:23,803 (CROWD CHEERING) (CAMERAS CLICKING) 722 00:42:24,803 --> 00:42:28,723 Ladies and gentlemen, I am officially running... 723 00:42:31,083 --> 00:42:33,603 ...for President of the United States. 724 00:42:33,643 --> 00:42:36,803 HARBATH: When Trump first came down that escalator... 725 00:42:36,843 --> 00:42:39,803 to announce that he was running for president, myself, 726 00:42:39,843 --> 00:42:41,523 like a lot of others, was like, 727 00:42:41,563 --> 00:42:44,483 "This is probably not going to last very long." 728 00:42:45,483 --> 00:42:48,963 I got an email one night from Trump's PR that said... 729 00:42:49,003 --> 00:42:52,443 "Trump's thinking about running for president. You want to help?" 730 00:42:52,483 --> 00:42:54,523 I was like, "Yeah, sure." 731 00:42:55,403 --> 00:42:57,603 I walk into this big room. 732 00:42:57,643 --> 00:42:59,483 So, I listened for an hour 733 00:42:59,523 --> 00:43:01,883 to a pitch of all this stuff they're gonna do. 734 00:43:01,923 --> 00:43:04,203 And they asked what I think, and I just said, "No." 735 00:43:04,243 --> 00:43:07,243 I just said, "We're going to do something completely different." 736 00:43:07,283 --> 00:43:10,203 I said, "We're going to win this thing on Facebook." 737 00:43:12,203 --> 00:43:15,163 I went home, and I focused all day, every day, 738 00:43:15,203 --> 00:43:18,043 creating most of the content, doing everything myself, 739 00:43:18,083 --> 00:43:20,003 my laptop at home, just me. 740 00:43:20,803 --> 00:43:24,083 We need to talk directly to every single person individually 741 00:43:24,123 --> 00:43:26,803 so that they can have the proper understanding 742 00:43:26,843 --> 00:43:28,763 of who Donald Trump is and what he wants to do. 743 00:43:30,203 --> 00:43:32,483 Voters have busy lives, they're doing things, 744 00:43:32,523 --> 00:43:35,283 but they're on Facebook during lunch. Facebook in the evenings. 745 00:43:35,323 --> 00:43:37,723 They're on Facebook in the restroom. 746 00:43:37,763 --> 00:43:41,643 So, you have these moments of time where you can get into their brain. 747 00:43:41,683 --> 00:43:43,723 Facebook said, "We'll give you a team. 748 00:43:43,763 --> 00:43:46,683 They can sit in your office all day and ask them whatever you want. 749 00:43:46,723 --> 00:43:49,363 Anything breaks, they'll fix it, if you spend this much money." 750 00:43:49,403 --> 00:43:51,043 I said, I'm going spend $100 million." 751 00:43:51,083 --> 00:43:53,323 They're like, "Well, that's plenty." 752 00:43:54,563 --> 00:43:57,723 THOMPSON: Zuckerberg's ideology is to 'bring the world together'. 753 00:43:57,763 --> 00:43:59,723 Donald Trump, whether you like him or not, 754 00:43:59,763 --> 00:44:02,323 that is certainly not his ideology. 755 00:44:02,363 --> 00:44:05,563 I think he probably thought it was going be the best possible outcome. 756 00:44:05,603 --> 00:44:07,523 Donald Trump driving lots of engagement, 757 00:44:07,563 --> 00:44:10,123 Donald Trump buying lots of ads and then Donald Trump losing. 758 00:44:10,163 --> 00:44:11,963 I think they thought they'd take the money 759 00:44:12,003 --> 00:44:14,243 and Trump would be a joke and they'd benefit from it. 760 00:44:14,283 --> 00:44:16,963 I don't think they saw what was coming at all. I did. 761 00:44:17,003 --> 00:44:20,723 And yes, we will build a wall. 762 00:44:21,603 --> 00:44:24,403 MCNAMEE: The way you work with Facebook as you say, 763 00:44:24,443 --> 00:44:26,723 the people I want to reach look like this. 764 00:44:27,723 --> 00:44:30,803 Find all the people in Facebook... 765 00:44:30,843 --> 00:44:32,723 who look like the people I want. 766 00:44:32,763 --> 00:44:36,403 And when you have one in seven voters in your custom audience, 767 00:44:36,443 --> 00:44:38,803 the precision with which you can target 768 00:44:38,843 --> 00:44:40,443 is completely unprecedented. 769 00:44:41,563 --> 00:44:44,403 THOMPSON: So he says, "I'm going to sell a ton of hats 770 00:44:44,443 --> 00:44:46,443 that say, 'Make America Great'." 771 00:44:46,483 --> 00:44:49,403 Somebody buys one of those hats, and then he says to Facebook, 772 00:44:49,443 --> 00:44:52,723 OK, now put a Trump 2016 ad 773 00:44:52,763 --> 00:44:55,563 in front of everybody who has characteristics 774 00:44:55,603 --> 00:44:57,923 similar to the person who bought the hat. 775 00:44:57,963 --> 00:45:01,123 Facebook knows everything about everybody. 776 00:45:01,163 --> 00:45:04,763 So it finds all of these people who are similar, in whatever way 777 00:45:04,803 --> 00:45:06,643 the Facebook algorithm can determine, 778 00:45:06,683 --> 00:45:08,603 to the person who just bought the hat. 779 00:45:09,923 --> 00:45:12,683 HARBATH: Anything we were offering to the Trump team. 780 00:45:12,723 --> 00:45:14,963 We're also offering to the Clinton team. 781 00:45:15,803 --> 00:45:18,443 Hillary's folks were like, "Thanks, we've got it. 782 00:45:18,483 --> 00:45:21,123 Don't call us. We'll call you if we need help. 783 00:45:22,283 --> 00:45:26,483 Donald J Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown 784 00:45:26,523 --> 00:45:29,563 of Muslims entering the United States 785 00:45:29,603 --> 00:45:33,083 until our country's representatives 786 00:45:33,123 --> 00:45:36,523 can figure out what the hell is going on. 787 00:45:36,563 --> 00:45:38,403 (CROWD CHEERING) 788 00:45:38,443 --> 00:45:41,003 THOMPSON: Facebook was a perfect medium for Donald Trump. 789 00:45:41,043 --> 00:45:44,043 He appeals to the emotions that work on Facebook, 790 00:45:44,083 --> 00:45:47,203 our lizard brain emotions, and not our thoughtful brain emotions. 791 00:45:47,243 --> 00:45:50,363 Hate him, love him. You have immediate reactions to Donald Trump. 792 00:45:50,403 --> 00:45:54,283 That's how the Facebook algorithm was tuned, particularly in 2016. 793 00:45:54,323 --> 00:45:57,563 I went to go check my phone and I see Trump's post 794 00:45:57,603 --> 00:46:00,803 and immediately I'm like, 795 00:46:00,843 --> 00:46:03,203 "Oh, no, this is not good." 796 00:46:04,283 --> 00:46:07,443 And I ping some folks on my team and I'm like, 797 00:46:07,483 --> 00:46:10,603 "Make sure nobody takes down this post 798 00:46:10,643 --> 00:46:13,363 without escalating it up to leadership." 799 00:46:15,643 --> 00:46:19,723 ALLAN: They are crossing a line and we've not had that before. 800 00:46:19,763 --> 00:46:21,963 We want to protect political speech. 801 00:46:22,003 --> 00:46:25,243 And the assumption was that political candidates 802 00:46:25,283 --> 00:46:29,563 will not say completely unreasonable things that break our rules. 803 00:46:29,603 --> 00:46:32,043 You got to see this guy. Oh, I don't know what I said. 804 00:46:32,083 --> 00:46:34,163 Aagh! I don't remember. 805 00:46:35,003 --> 00:46:38,003 He's starting to put things on Facebook that are challenging us 806 00:46:38,043 --> 00:46:41,123 that we never thought we'd have to grapple with. 807 00:46:41,163 --> 00:46:44,203 So if you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, 808 00:46:44,243 --> 00:46:46,643 knock the crap out of it, would you? Seriously? 809 00:46:46,683 --> 00:46:50,163 Are we seriously now in a spot where we're have to think about... 810 00:46:51,003 --> 00:46:55,323 taking down content from a potential President of the United States? 811 00:46:59,163 --> 00:47:01,483 Normally we'd have that discussion with Sheryl. 812 00:47:01,523 --> 00:47:04,563 If it's sufficiently momentous, 813 00:47:04,603 --> 00:47:07,683 then Sheryl will then take it to Mark, 814 00:47:07,723 --> 00:47:10,563 and then he'll either go with it or he won't. 815 00:47:10,603 --> 00:47:14,163 When Mexico sends its people... they're bringing drugs. 816 00:47:14,203 --> 00:47:17,123 They're bringing crime. They're rapists. 817 00:47:18,123 --> 00:47:21,003 Mark did understand the scope for abuse, 818 00:47:21,043 --> 00:47:23,963 and he felt that the way you avoid that 819 00:47:24,003 --> 00:47:26,923 is you say we, the platform, are neutral. 820 00:47:26,963 --> 00:47:29,563 We don't decide what's in your news feed. 821 00:47:29,603 --> 00:47:32,483 You, the user, decide what's in your news feed. 822 00:47:33,403 --> 00:47:35,643 HARBATH: Mark does an interesting interview 823 00:47:35,683 --> 00:47:37,883 where he is in a room full of people, 824 00:47:37,923 --> 00:47:42,323 and you can see he really held on to this idea that all speech is good 825 00:47:42,363 --> 00:47:45,083 and that people would see the misinformation for what it was. 826 00:47:46,123 --> 00:47:49,643 This is tricky, right? Because lies... 827 00:47:51,003 --> 00:47:55,283 What the line is between something which is factually untrue 828 00:47:55,323 --> 00:47:58,323 and what is a disagreement of opinion 829 00:47:58,363 --> 00:48:00,803 is not always a black and white line. 830 00:48:01,843 --> 00:48:05,883 we don't want to block people from sharing something on Facebook, 831 00:48:05,923 --> 00:48:07,923 even if it's untrue. 832 00:48:08,963 --> 00:48:12,083 Forget the press. Read the Internet. 833 00:48:12,123 --> 00:48:15,443 Study other things. Don't go for the mainstream media. 834 00:48:15,483 --> 00:48:18,563 I saw how Facebook was polluting the news ecosystem, 835 00:48:18,603 --> 00:48:21,683 and I saw that it was making media worse. 836 00:48:21,723 --> 00:48:25,003 I noticed that stories with no information, 837 00:48:25,043 --> 00:48:28,803 salacious headlines, all kinds of problematic features 838 00:48:28,843 --> 00:48:31,323 were doing much better than other stories. 839 00:48:32,803 --> 00:48:34,643 That's when I started to really say, 840 00:48:34,683 --> 00:48:36,963 "Oh, wait, what's going on here?" 841 00:48:37,883 --> 00:48:41,123 And then, of course, we have Crooked Hillary. Crooked Hillary! 842 00:48:41,163 --> 00:48:43,523 (INDISTINCT CROWD CHANTS) 843 00:48:48,203 --> 00:48:50,323 What should we be thinking about fact checking? 844 00:48:50,363 --> 00:48:52,843 Should we be thinking about this? 845 00:48:52,883 --> 00:48:55,203 Is there anybody more crooked than this woman? 846 00:48:55,243 --> 00:48:56,883 We're in the middle of an election. 847 00:48:56,923 --> 00:49:00,083 We don't want to look like we're putting our thumbs on the scale. 848 00:49:00,963 --> 00:49:05,683 I was like, "He might win? No, he's not going to win." 849 00:49:05,723 --> 00:49:07,683 I kind of had this... 850 00:49:07,723 --> 00:49:11,283 two sides in my brain fighting against one another. 851 00:49:11,323 --> 00:49:13,683 And I think a lot of others at the company did, too. 852 00:49:15,643 --> 00:49:18,283 ANNOUNCER: Please welcome the co-founder of PayPal 853 00:49:18,323 --> 00:49:22,163 and first investor in Facebook, entrepreneur, Peter Thiel. 854 00:49:23,803 --> 00:49:26,523 Good evening. I'm Peter Theil. 855 00:49:26,563 --> 00:49:30,523 I build companies and I support people who are building new things, 856 00:49:30,563 --> 00:49:32,843 from social networks to rocket ships. 857 00:49:33,643 --> 00:49:37,323 I'm not a politician, but neither is Donald Trump. 858 00:49:38,203 --> 00:49:42,563 He is a builder, and it's time to rebuild America. 859 00:49:44,883 --> 00:49:47,883 REPORTER: He's a self-described libertarian, 860 00:49:47,923 --> 00:49:49,963 but he's a delegate for Donald Trump. 861 00:49:50,003 --> 00:49:52,563 He's an immigrant from Germany, pro tech, obviously. 862 00:49:52,603 --> 00:49:54,363 And is openly gay. 863 00:50:00,803 --> 00:50:04,283 Tonight, I urge all of my fellow Americans 864 00:50:04,323 --> 00:50:07,603 to stand up and vote for Donald Trump. 865 00:50:07,643 --> 00:50:10,643 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 866 00:50:11,483 --> 00:50:14,163 CHAFKIN: Peter Thiel is very interested in business, 867 00:50:14,203 --> 00:50:18,163 but has spent two decades as a right-wing political activist. 868 00:50:20,923 --> 00:50:22,843 I think Thiel... 869 00:50:22,883 --> 00:50:25,283 has had an influence on Zuckerberg's politics. 870 00:50:25,323 --> 00:50:29,603 And insofar as Zuckerberg is kind of a libertarian who thinks that, 871 00:50:29,643 --> 00:50:32,203 you know, the world be better off if tech companies could just 872 00:50:32,243 --> 00:50:35,243 do whatever they want and the government should get out of his way 873 00:50:35,283 --> 00:50:39,243 and that he's kind of more OK with Donald Trump than a lot of people. 874 00:50:39,283 --> 00:50:43,483 Those are things that Thiel, I think, had an influence on him. 875 00:50:43,523 --> 00:50:46,763 But I don't think Zuckerberg has deep political views at all. 876 00:50:46,803 --> 00:50:48,883 I think his politics are Facebook 877 00:50:48,923 --> 00:50:51,083 and his politics are Mark Zuckerberg. 878 00:50:53,483 --> 00:50:56,043 PARSCALE: I'm upstairs with Trump in his residence, 879 00:50:56,083 --> 00:50:59,163 and I get a phone call from my data staff that's pulling out the numbers 880 00:50:59,203 --> 00:51:02,043 and they're like, "Brad you did it. 881 00:51:02,083 --> 00:51:05,203 The numbers are there. Trump's won. I can't believe it." 882 00:51:06,123 --> 00:51:08,923 I walked out and I told Donald Trump, I shook his hand 883 00:51:08,963 --> 00:51:11,443 and I said, "Congratulations, Mr President." 884 00:51:11,483 --> 00:51:13,643 He said, "Really?" And I said, "It's done. 885 00:51:13,683 --> 00:51:16,363 They'll recount it two or three times before they announce it. 886 00:51:16,403 --> 00:51:18,403 But you won. 887 00:51:19,283 --> 00:51:21,843 REPORTER: And confirmed that Donald Trump 888 00:51:21,883 --> 00:51:25,443 will be the 45th President of the United States. 889 00:51:32,603 --> 00:51:34,923 THOMPSON: People are just shocked. 890 00:51:34,963 --> 00:51:38,363 How did this happen? What's going on? What does it mean? 891 00:51:38,403 --> 00:51:43,163 And one of the quick and early hypotheses is, 892 00:51:43,203 --> 00:51:46,603 "Oh, wait, it's because of Facebook. Because the fake news on Facebook. 893 00:51:46,643 --> 00:51:49,483 It's because the way the Facebook algorithm worked. 894 00:51:50,363 --> 00:51:53,243 Stories start to come out about Russian influence. 895 00:51:53,283 --> 00:51:55,203 And the stories are overcooked, 896 00:51:55,243 --> 00:51:57,643 and they give too much credit to the Russians. 897 00:52:00,843 --> 00:52:04,523 But suddenly it looks like Facebook missed something. 898 00:52:09,923 --> 00:52:12,323 (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) 899 00:52:13,723 --> 00:52:18,163 I ran a company which put-on high-end tech conferences, 900 00:52:18,203 --> 00:52:22,523 and for years I had been trying to get Zuckerberg to come and speak. 901 00:52:22,563 --> 00:52:25,523 And finally, you know, I hit it. 902 00:52:25,563 --> 00:52:28,083 Hey! Hey. Good to see you. 903 00:52:28,123 --> 00:52:31,963 I wasn't even associating his speaking at the conference 904 00:52:32,003 --> 00:52:34,923 with the fact that it was two days after the election. 905 00:52:36,723 --> 00:52:38,843 And I do remember thinking... 906 00:52:38,883 --> 00:52:42,723 before he was on stage with me that he seemed very preoccupied. 907 00:52:44,043 --> 00:52:47,123 But thank you so much - for being here. - Glad to. 908 00:52:47,163 --> 00:52:50,123 Post election you've been getting a lot of pushback 909 00:52:50,163 --> 00:52:53,243 from people who feel that you didn't filter out enough 910 00:52:53,283 --> 00:52:56,243 fake stories during the course of the campaign. 911 00:52:56,283 --> 00:53:01,603 You know, personally... I think the idea that... 912 00:53:02,683 --> 00:53:05,123 ...you know, fake news on Facebook 913 00:53:05,163 --> 00:53:08,243 of which, you know, it's a very small amount 914 00:53:08,283 --> 00:53:10,883 of- of the content, 915 00:53:10,923 --> 00:53:15,803 influenced the election in any way I think is a pretty crazy idea, right? 916 00:53:15,843 --> 00:53:19,323 I was still fundamentally sympathetic to him 917 00:53:19,363 --> 00:53:21,523 up to that point. 918 00:53:21,563 --> 00:53:25,163 But it was clear that, no, it wasn't a crazy idea at all. 919 00:53:25,203 --> 00:53:28,003 That, in fact, whether they swung the election or not 920 00:53:28,043 --> 00:53:30,203 is still a subject of debate, 921 00:53:30,243 --> 00:53:32,443 but fake news on Facebook had had an impact. 922 00:53:32,483 --> 00:53:34,723 I was deeply disappointed in him. 923 00:53:36,003 --> 00:53:39,123 I was forced to think very hard. 924 00:53:40,163 --> 00:53:42,563 What do I really think about him? 925 00:53:42,603 --> 00:53:45,323 Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, guys. 926 00:53:49,283 --> 00:53:52,883 I was really alarmed by what was increasingly obvious 927 00:53:52,923 --> 00:53:56,803 to be the consequences of his failures of governance. 928 00:53:59,083 --> 00:54:02,803 Overnight, we went from everything we touched to turn to gold. 929 00:54:02,843 --> 00:54:06,283 To everything we touched turned to dust. 930 00:54:06,323 --> 00:54:09,163 And now we're grappling with... 931 00:54:10,123 --> 00:54:12,603 ...the downsides of this thing that we built. 932 00:54:14,403 --> 00:54:17,803 When I first joined, movies were being made. 933 00:54:17,843 --> 00:54:20,563 The founder is on the cover of Time magazine. 934 00:54:20,603 --> 00:54:22,883 You're overthrowing dictators. 935 00:54:23,803 --> 00:54:27,723 And now seven years later, you're being told you destroyed democracy. 936 00:54:30,043 --> 00:54:33,283 KIRKPATRICK It wasn't until Donald Trump was elected 937 00:54:33,323 --> 00:54:35,483 that it began to be apparent 938 00:54:35,523 --> 00:54:38,163 just how dangerous a system like this could be. 939 00:54:38,203 --> 00:54:41,043 And don't forget, it was also Brexit. 940 00:54:41,083 --> 00:54:45,483 The sun has risen on an independent United Kingdom. 941 00:54:45,523 --> 00:54:47,683 Erdogan in Turkey. 942 00:54:47,723 --> 00:54:49,803 Duterte in the Philippines. 943 00:54:49,843 --> 00:54:51,723 Orban in Hungary. 944 00:54:51,763 --> 00:54:56,323 All elected using Facebook, in every single case. 945 00:54:59,603 --> 00:55:02,563 Everything changes from, sort of, 2016 onwards 946 00:55:02,603 --> 00:55:04,683 after that Trump election. 947 00:55:04,723 --> 00:55:07,803 People in the company went from feeling the sense of loyalty 948 00:55:07,843 --> 00:55:11,283 to feeling they had a wider loyalty to something outside. 949 00:55:12,123 --> 00:55:14,723 They went from being proud to go out and say I work for Facebook 950 00:55:14,763 --> 00:55:16,683 to being ashamed of it. 951 00:55:16,723 --> 00:55:19,043 You start to think, maybe we are the bad guys. 952 00:55:24,203 --> 00:55:28,843 In terms of Mark's persona, his big positive persona 953 00:55:28,883 --> 00:55:32,243 becomes a big negative persona from that point onwards. 954 00:55:32,283 --> 00:55:34,443 Alright. Hey, everyone. 955 00:55:34,483 --> 00:55:37,483 I'm here with my friend 956 00:55:37,523 --> 00:55:39,763 and Facebook COO, Sheryl Sandberg, 957 00:55:39,803 --> 00:55:42,483 for our typical one-on-one. (LAUGHTER) 958 00:55:42,523 --> 00:55:44,803 Welcome to our one-on-one. Here we are. (CHUCKLES) 959 00:55:45,963 --> 00:55:49,803 FRENKEL: Sheryl Sandberg and Mark, do these twice a week, one-on-ones. 960 00:55:49,843 --> 00:55:53,203 But it's put on for show to make people feel that 961 00:55:53,243 --> 00:55:57,643 Facebook is a place largely for good, rather than with conspiracies, 962 00:55:57,683 --> 00:56:00,923 hate speech and misinformation that was really flooding the platform. 963 00:56:00,963 --> 00:56:03,243 It's been a really important year for sharing 964 00:56:03,283 --> 00:56:05,843 because a lot has happened and not all of it positive. 965 00:56:05,883 --> 00:56:08,523 This has been a year of a lot of angst, 966 00:56:08,563 --> 00:56:11,883 a lot of people having issues, really serious issues, 967 00:56:11,923 --> 00:56:15,163 violence, war, terrorism all around the world. 968 00:56:15,203 --> 00:56:17,483 But you also see these other moments. 969 00:56:17,523 --> 00:56:19,963 You see, you know, the number one live video of the year 970 00:56:20,003 --> 00:56:21,923 was the Chewbacca mom. Hey. 971 00:56:21,963 --> 00:56:25,963 I'm really excited to share with you something I got. 972 00:56:26,003 --> 00:56:27,883 Here we go. 973 00:56:27,923 --> 00:56:30,283 I got to take of my glasses for it. (LAUGHS) 974 00:56:33,363 --> 00:56:35,603 Naturally. OK, here we go. 975 00:56:35,643 --> 00:56:38,483 So, yes. 976 00:56:38,523 --> 00:56:40,803 Now, watch when my mouth actually moves. 977 00:56:40,843 --> 00:56:43,083 (CHEWBACCA ROAR) 978 00:56:43,123 --> 00:56:44,963 (CHEWBACCA ROAR) 979 00:56:45,003 --> 00:56:48,163 (LAUGHS, CHEWBACCA ROAR) 980 00:56:48,203 --> 00:56:50,923 Oh, my gosh. I'm in tears. 981 00:56:52,923 --> 00:56:56,443 REPORTER: We see the Jewellers and other Muslim-owned businesses 982 00:56:56,483 --> 00:56:59,723 being ransacked by Buddhist residents and monks. 983 00:57:02,603 --> 00:57:05,323 In my mind, Myanmar is the starkest example 984 00:57:05,363 --> 00:57:07,563 of what can go wrong with Facebook. 985 00:57:07,603 --> 00:57:09,803 It comes at a moment where Facebook is desperate 986 00:57:09,843 --> 00:57:11,683 to expand to the rest of the world. 987 00:57:11,723 --> 00:57:14,403 They are committed to bringing on the next 1 billion users. 988 00:57:14,443 --> 00:57:18,403 There is virtually no research done into Myanmar as a country 989 00:57:18,443 --> 00:57:20,723 or understanding that this is a place in the world 990 00:57:20,763 --> 00:57:23,203 where there is no free press, there are no, you know, 991 00:57:23,243 --> 00:57:25,843 independent government institutions. 992 00:57:26,923 --> 00:57:29,083 They were buying their own PR, 993 00:57:29,123 --> 00:57:31,763 that the most important thing was to bring people online. 994 00:57:31,803 --> 00:57:35,723 And if you brought people online, inherent good would come from that. 995 00:57:35,763 --> 00:57:38,723 And they didn't want to listen to the many people 996 00:57:38,763 --> 00:57:41,523 who were telling them that in some cases, 997 00:57:41,563 --> 00:57:44,963 bringing people online when there wasn't media literacy 998 00:57:45,003 --> 00:57:48,603 or a Free Press or any other institution 999 00:57:48,643 --> 00:57:50,723 to hold it in account could lead to hate speech. 1000 00:57:53,523 --> 00:57:57,363 REPORTER: From a hilltop, we see a young man, presumably Muslim, 1001 00:57:57,403 --> 00:57:59,723 attacked by men wielding sticks. 1002 00:58:00,923 --> 00:58:03,203 He staggers, attempting to flee... 1003 00:58:06,003 --> 00:58:08,003 ...but he is forced to the earth. 1004 00:58:09,323 --> 00:58:11,963 I was a reporter in Myanmar, and I wrote an article... 1005 00:58:13,283 --> 00:58:16,963 ...and part of that article documented the rise in hate speech. 1006 00:58:18,243 --> 00:58:20,883 I interviewed people in Myanmar who said, 1007 00:58:20,923 --> 00:58:24,763 "I didn't know the Rohingya were raping and killing our women. 1008 00:58:24,803 --> 00:58:27,363 But now that I'm on Facebook, I know the Rohingya are actually 1009 00:58:27,403 --> 00:58:29,643 these horrible creatures, you know." 1010 00:58:29,683 --> 00:58:33,123 And I took that to Facebook, as a reporter and I said, 1011 00:58:33,163 --> 00:58:35,803 "Can you please look at these posts that I'm sending you? 1012 00:58:35,843 --> 00:58:37,923 Because I can tell that this is actually footage 1013 00:58:37,963 --> 00:58:40,243 that's been manipulated to make it look as if 1014 00:58:40,283 --> 00:58:43,243 the Rohingya are carrying out atrocities. 1015 00:58:43,283 --> 00:58:45,643 And Facebook told me to take a hike. 1016 00:58:49,203 --> 00:58:51,803 Later, I found out even more activists 1017 00:58:51,843 --> 00:58:54,203 begin to send Facebook warnings 1018 00:58:54,243 --> 00:58:57,243 and saying hate speech has just gone off the rails. 1019 00:58:57,283 --> 00:58:59,323 Report after report after report 1020 00:58:59,363 --> 00:59:01,883 and Facebook does nothing. 1021 00:59:01,923 --> 00:59:05,563 They even bring in an activist to speak to them in their headquarters 1022 00:59:05,603 --> 00:59:10,243 who says, "If you do nothing, a genocide could happen." 1023 00:59:10,283 --> 00:59:12,603 People that walk out of that room with him and go, 1024 00:59:12,643 --> 00:59:14,483 "I think he's exaggerating. 1025 00:59:14,523 --> 00:59:16,403 I don't think he knows what he's talking about. 1026 00:59:16,443 --> 00:59:18,683 That's not gonna happen. That's not gonna be our fault. 1027 00:59:18,723 --> 00:59:22,043 SENATOR: You know, six months ago, I asked your general counsel 1028 00:59:22,083 --> 00:59:25,363 about Facebook's role as a breeding ground for hate speech. 1029 00:59:25,403 --> 00:59:28,603 This is a type of content I was referring to, 1030 00:59:28,643 --> 00:59:31,843 it calls for the death of a Muslim journalist. 1031 00:59:33,883 --> 00:59:37,563 That threat went straight through your detection systems, 1032 00:59:37,603 --> 00:59:39,963 it spread very quickly. 1033 00:59:40,003 --> 00:59:44,003 And then it took attempt after attempt after attempt 1034 00:59:44,043 --> 00:59:46,243 to get you to remove it. 1035 00:59:46,283 --> 00:59:50,243 Senator, what's happening in Myanmar is a terrible tragedy 1036 00:59:50,283 --> 00:59:53,883 and we need to do more-We all - agree with that. - OK.But... 1037 00:59:55,043 --> 00:59:58,643 ...UN investigators have blamed you, 1038 00:59:58,683 --> 01:00:00,923 blamed Facebook for playing a role 1039 01:00:00,963 --> 01:00:03,803 in citing possible genocide in Myanmar. 1040 01:00:07,283 --> 01:00:10,763 He sees himself as having built a platform for all humanity. 1041 01:00:11,803 --> 01:00:14,243 And in his mind, that's a good thing. 1042 01:00:14,283 --> 01:00:16,443 There will be tremendous benefits 1043 01:00:16,483 --> 01:00:20,043 from making the world more open and connected, et cetera, et cetera. 1044 01:00:20,083 --> 01:00:22,683 But humanity includes some bad actors. 1045 01:00:22,723 --> 01:00:26,163 There's a lot of nasty people. That's not his problem. 1046 01:00:26,203 --> 01:00:28,723 Yeah, there's going to be some nasty shit that happens. 1047 01:00:28,763 --> 01:00:32,363 People are going to do things that are illegal, immoral, cruel, 1048 01:00:32,403 --> 01:00:34,963 hateful, murderous, even. 1049 01:00:35,003 --> 01:00:37,723 "But don't blame me. That's human nature." 1050 01:00:39,523 --> 01:00:43,003 REPORTER: It is reported that both the Justice Department and the FBI 1051 01:00:43,043 --> 01:00:45,683 are investigating the now-defunct political data firm, 1052 01:00:45,723 --> 01:00:47,643 Cambridge Analytica. 1053 01:00:47,683 --> 01:00:50,723 REPORTER: The data firm hired by Donald Trump's presidential election 1054 01:00:50,763 --> 01:00:53,443 campaign used secretly-obtained information 1055 01:00:53,483 --> 01:00:56,963 from tens of millions of unsuspecting Facebook users. 1056 01:00:57,003 --> 01:01:00,763 Misuse of Facebook data is at the centre of this scandal 1057 01:01:00,803 --> 01:01:04,003 involving both Facebook and Cambridge Analytica. 1058 01:01:10,963 --> 01:01:13,603 Facebook now says 87 million users 1059 01:01:13,643 --> 01:01:17,283 may have had their information shared with Cambridge Analytica. 1060 01:01:18,163 --> 01:01:20,883 We, as the public were impacted by it, 1061 01:01:20,923 --> 01:01:23,643 notably have not heard from the brand name of Facebook, 1062 01:01:23,683 --> 01:01:26,363 Mark Zuckerberg or COO, Sheryl Sandberg. 1063 01:01:27,723 --> 01:01:30,203 Neither one of them wanted to be the face of this. 1064 01:01:30,243 --> 01:01:32,843 And Zuckerberg was probably like, 1065 01:01:32,883 --> 01:01:35,323 "Well, it's your thing, it's your department." 1066 01:01:35,363 --> 01:01:38,003 And she was probably like, "You're the CEO." 1067 01:01:38,043 --> 01:01:41,523 And neither one of them could decide who would go out and take the heat. 1068 01:01:41,563 --> 01:01:45,243 And eventually, five days later, it's clear that someone has to come out. 1069 01:01:45,283 --> 01:01:48,243 I want to start with just a basic question, Mark. 1070 01:01:48,283 --> 01:01:50,203 What happened? What went wrong? 1071 01:01:50,243 --> 01:01:52,643 So, this was a major breach of trust. 1072 01:01:52,683 --> 01:01:55,323 And I'm really sorry that this happened. 1073 01:01:55,363 --> 01:01:58,243 SENATOR: You know, you have a long list of apologies. 1074 01:01:58,283 --> 01:02:01,083 In 2003, it started at Harvard. 1075 01:02:01,123 --> 01:02:04,923 "I apologise for any harm done as a result of my neglect." 1076 01:02:04,963 --> 01:02:08,163 2006, "We really messed this one up." 1077 01:02:08,203 --> 01:02:13,043 2007, "We simply did a bad job, I apologise for." 1078 01:02:13,083 --> 01:02:16,243 2010, "Sometimes we move too fast." 1079 01:02:16,283 --> 01:02:21,003 2011, "I'm the first to admit that we've made a bunch of mistakes." 1080 01:02:21,043 --> 01:02:26,843 2017, "I ask for forgiveness. I will work to do better." 1081 01:02:26,883 --> 01:02:29,323 So it seems to me... 1082 01:02:29,363 --> 01:02:32,963 that self-regulation simply does not work. 1083 01:02:34,643 --> 01:02:37,163 Mark Zuckerberg's experience as an individual 1084 01:02:37,203 --> 01:02:39,803 is that he does things which upset people. 1085 01:02:39,843 --> 01:02:42,203 He apologises and everybody moves on. 1086 01:02:42,243 --> 01:02:46,483 But there comes a moment in- after Cambridge Analytica in 2018 1087 01:02:46,523 --> 01:02:48,923 where it's not working anymore. 1088 01:02:59,683 --> 01:03:03,403 REPORTER: Senator, do you think that you really can trust a company 1089 01:03:03,443 --> 01:03:06,803 to police itself when it comes to our privacy 1090 01:03:06,843 --> 01:03:10,483 and when it comes to things like not censoring our freedom of speech? 1091 01:03:10,523 --> 01:03:13,523 As of right now, no. 1092 01:03:13,563 --> 01:03:16,363 Lawmakers in Washington were getting impatient because 1093 01:03:16,403 --> 01:03:18,123 the controversies were stacking. 1094 01:03:18,163 --> 01:03:21,523 Sentiment was turning against the technology industry. 1095 01:03:22,443 --> 01:03:26,083 They had wanted Mark Zuckerberg to testify for more than a year 1096 01:03:26,123 --> 01:03:28,483 and Facebook declined, they refused. 1097 01:03:29,723 --> 01:03:32,643 And then they threatened to subpoena Mark Zuckerberg 1098 01:03:32,683 --> 01:03:36,843 if he didn't appear in hearings in Washington. 1099 01:03:36,883 --> 01:03:40,003 And so finally, they agreed that 1100 01:03:40,043 --> 01:03:42,243 Mark Zuckerberg would come to testify. 1101 01:03:44,003 --> 01:03:46,363 There's a reason all these incredibly important 1102 01:03:46,403 --> 01:03:50,723 and effective disruptors of social media communications, 1103 01:03:50,763 --> 01:03:54,843 shopping, started in America because we had light touch regulation. 1104 01:03:54,883 --> 01:03:57,603 Now they've gotten big. So we have a job to step in. 1105 01:03:57,643 --> 01:04:00,923 If they don't perform according to the rules of the road. 1106 01:04:02,243 --> 01:04:05,403 Facebook has not been regulated at all at that point, 1107 01:04:05,443 --> 01:04:09,043 and any sort of regulation that could pop up 1108 01:04:09,083 --> 01:04:12,283 would be catastrophic for the company. 1109 01:04:13,243 --> 01:04:16,283 Any regulation and privacy, and data collection 1110 01:04:16,323 --> 01:04:18,643 would impede Facebook's business model, 1111 01:04:18,683 --> 01:04:21,123 which is to collect as much data as possible 1112 01:04:21,163 --> 01:04:23,843 and to sell that data to advertisers. 1113 01:04:23,883 --> 01:04:26,523 That is the heart of Facebook's business model. 1114 01:04:30,403 --> 01:04:33,003 ALLAN: Mark knows that it's high stakes. 1115 01:04:34,923 --> 01:04:38,523 You know that the chances of getting something wrong are quite high. 1116 01:04:38,563 --> 01:04:41,443 So I think he's absolutely laser-focused. 1117 01:04:42,523 --> 01:04:45,363 Facebook hired one of the biggest law firms, 1118 01:04:45,403 --> 01:04:49,323 and for two weeks this law firm went to Menlo Park 1119 01:04:49,363 --> 01:04:53,083 and spent time with Mark Zuckerberg holed up in conference room, 1120 01:04:53,123 --> 01:04:55,643 grilling him in, sort of, mock hearings, 1121 01:04:55,683 --> 01:04:58,163 grilling him on the names of members of Congress, 1122 01:04:58,203 --> 01:05:02,083 on what questions they'd ask. It was almost a mock debate preparation. 1123 01:05:02,123 --> 01:05:04,643 I think what he wants is, to get in there. 1124 01:05:04,683 --> 01:05:06,563 Don't screw up. Get out. 1125 01:05:10,763 --> 01:05:13,083 REPORTER: It's a monumental moment for Facebook. 1126 01:05:13,123 --> 01:05:15,123 This is a company that's become ubiquitous. 1127 01:05:15,163 --> 01:05:18,683 It's now under fire for not being transparent with its users 1128 01:05:18,723 --> 01:05:21,363 about its use of our data. 1129 01:05:21,403 --> 01:05:24,443 Now, CEO Mark Zuckerberg, will have his moment on Capitol Hill 1130 01:05:24,483 --> 01:05:26,483 testifying before Congress. 1131 01:05:28,803 --> 01:05:31,603 The stakes are very, very high. 1132 01:05:33,323 --> 01:05:36,963 Mark Zuckerberg walked into the hearing rooms 1133 01:05:37,003 --> 01:05:39,323 in the navy, blue suit 1134 01:05:39,363 --> 01:05:41,763 and surrounded by an entourage of lobbyists. 1135 01:05:44,163 --> 01:05:48,643 He came in with almost, like, a slight smile on his face, 1136 01:05:48,683 --> 01:05:52,803 trying to look cordial, trying to look cool and calm and collected. 1137 01:05:52,843 --> 01:05:55,403 They're unfazed. They don't want to show that 1138 01:05:55,443 --> 01:05:57,883 they're deeply inside very, very nervous. 1139 01:06:01,843 --> 01:06:05,603 CHAFKIN: I think there was a sense among lawmakers 1140 01:06:05,643 --> 01:06:09,243 that this was an opportunity to arrest this... 1141 01:06:09,283 --> 01:06:13,763 incredibly fast-growing, dominant social cultural business phenomenon. 1142 01:06:15,083 --> 01:06:17,763 Mark, are you putting privacy over profits now? 1143 01:06:19,803 --> 01:06:22,963 KANG: His lobbyists had negotiated with staff to make sure that 1144 01:06:23,003 --> 01:06:25,083 the air conditioning was jacked up 1145 01:06:25,123 --> 01:06:27,923 so that Mark Zuckerberg wouldn't sweat on camera. 1146 01:06:29,003 --> 01:06:31,723 Not only is the public, competitors 1147 01:06:31,763 --> 01:06:34,163 and lawmakers all watching this hearing, 1148 01:06:34,203 --> 01:06:36,123 but so is the stock market. 1149 01:06:36,163 --> 01:06:38,563 Investors were watching the hearings 1150 01:06:38,603 --> 01:06:41,283 to see if Mark Zuckerberg might trip up 1151 01:06:41,323 --> 01:06:44,523 and say something that could hurt the future of the business 1152 01:06:44,563 --> 01:06:47,443 and therefore hurt the stock. 1153 01:06:58,083 --> 01:07:01,763 (BANGING GAVEL) 1154 01:07:03,163 --> 01:07:06,083 Committee on the Judiciary and the Commerce, 1155 01:07:06,123 --> 01:07:09,323 Science and Transportation will come to order. 1156 01:07:12,363 --> 01:07:15,323 The beginning of the hearings with Mark Zuckerberg are tense. 1157 01:07:15,363 --> 01:07:18,283 You could tell the Facebook flock in the room are tense. 1158 01:07:18,323 --> 01:07:20,483 You could tell Mark is tense, the way he's sitting. 1159 01:07:20,523 --> 01:07:23,163 He's kind of very squared off. 1160 01:07:23,203 --> 01:07:26,083 I was captivated. What are the questions they're going to ask? 1161 01:07:26,123 --> 01:07:28,803 What are they going to uncover? What are they going to learn? 1162 01:07:28,843 --> 01:07:31,003 SENATOR: Mr Zuckerberg, what is Facebook doing 1163 01:07:31,043 --> 01:07:35,723 to prevent foreign actors from interfering in US elections? 1164 01:07:35,763 --> 01:07:37,923 How will you protect user's data? 1165 01:07:37,963 --> 01:07:41,283 Do you collect user data through cross-device tracking? 1166 01:07:41,323 --> 01:07:43,763 Are you willing to expand my right 1167 01:07:43,803 --> 01:07:45,843 to know who you're sharing my data with? 1168 01:07:45,883 --> 01:07:48,683 Do you believe European regulations should be applied in the US? 1169 01:07:48,723 --> 01:07:51,163 Are you willing to change your business model 1170 01:07:51,203 --> 01:07:54,963 in the interest of protecting individual privacy? 1171 01:07:55,003 --> 01:07:57,323 Congresswoman, I'm not sure what that means. 1172 01:07:58,723 --> 01:08:01,363 It would seem like that would be the start 1173 01:08:01,403 --> 01:08:04,163 of what would be a really intense grilling. 1174 01:08:04,203 --> 01:08:07,083 But I was really surprised to hear how many times 1175 01:08:07,123 --> 01:08:09,963 Mark Zuckerberg was able to say... I can have my team follow up with you. 1176 01:08:10,003 --> 01:08:12,043 I'll have my team get back to you. 1177 01:08:12,083 --> 01:08:15,483 I'm happy to have my team follow up with you if that would be helpful? 1178 01:08:15,523 --> 01:08:18,123 ...without answering the question at that moment. 1179 01:08:18,163 --> 01:08:19,963 And there was no follow up. 1180 01:08:20,003 --> 01:08:22,443 Some of the questions were very basic and very simple. 1181 01:08:22,483 --> 01:08:25,963 And I was watching this and I was communicating with other people 1182 01:08:26,003 --> 01:08:29,443 who follow the industry well and they were saying the same thing. 1183 01:08:29,483 --> 01:08:31,203 Why is there no follow up? 1184 01:08:32,603 --> 01:08:36,563 Mark Zuckerberg was probably thinking the same thing, 1185 01:08:36,603 --> 01:08:39,363 that some of these questions were not so hard 1186 01:08:39,403 --> 01:08:42,083 and that the hearings themselves would not be the grilling, 1187 01:08:42,123 --> 01:08:45,763 the, sort of, slaying that he had feared. 1188 01:08:45,803 --> 01:08:48,923 You're supposed to answer 'yes' to this question. 1189 01:08:49,923 --> 01:08:52,363 OK, come on. I'm trying to help you, right. 1190 01:08:52,403 --> 01:08:55,283 I mean, give me a break. The answer is 'yes'. 1191 01:08:55,323 --> 01:08:57,523 OK, so thank you. (LAUGHTER) 1192 01:08:57,563 --> 01:09:00,163 FRENKEL: The hearings could have been a turning point, 1193 01:09:00,203 --> 01:09:04,203 but some of the members of Congress asked these incredibly fumbling questions. 1194 01:09:04,243 --> 01:09:06,403 'What is this Facebook machine?' You know,. 1195 01:09:06,443 --> 01:09:10,083 they just they sound like your dad is asking a question about Facebook. 1196 01:09:10,123 --> 01:09:14,363 How do you sustain a business model in which users don't pay for your service? 1197 01:09:15,883 --> 01:09:17,883 Senator, we run ads. 1198 01:09:18,923 --> 01:09:20,403 I see. 1199 01:09:20,443 --> 01:09:23,043 It became so clear that these members of Congress 1200 01:09:23,083 --> 01:09:27,723 didn't know the very basic technology that Facebook ran on 1201 01:09:27,763 --> 01:09:31,523 and that they were so out of their league in understanding 1202 01:09:31,563 --> 01:09:33,923 the fundamentals of Facebook as a company. 1203 01:09:33,963 --> 01:09:36,163 How could they possibly hold them to account? 1204 01:09:36,203 --> 01:09:40,043 You want to break now? Or you want to keep going. (CHUCKLES) 1205 01:09:40,083 --> 01:09:43,483 Sure. I mean, that was that was pretty good. So, alright. 1206 01:09:44,803 --> 01:09:46,923 In the room at that moment you understood, 1207 01:09:46,963 --> 01:09:48,643 like, he's got this. 1208 01:09:48,683 --> 01:09:51,643 He's got these members of Congress wrapped around his little finger. 1209 01:09:51,683 --> 01:09:53,523 I remember talking to a Facebook executive 1210 01:09:53,563 --> 01:09:55,843 who was fairly sceptical of Zuckerberg, talking about 1211 01:09:55,883 --> 01:09:59,923 everybody in a cafeteria celebrating as he knocks the senators back. 1212 01:09:59,963 --> 01:10:02,723 And just that was a moment where a company, 1213 01:10:02,763 --> 01:10:04,763 which had lost a bit of faith in their leader, 1214 01:10:04,803 --> 01:10:06,203 decided they loved him again. 1215 01:10:06,243 --> 01:10:08,563 The hearing is adjourned. 1216 01:10:12,083 --> 01:10:14,163 He came out of it pretty well. 1217 01:10:14,203 --> 01:10:16,083 Much better than I would have expected. 1218 01:10:17,843 --> 01:10:20,683 ALLAN: I mean, at the end, I think we feel we've done a good job. 1219 01:10:20,723 --> 01:10:24,243 We prepared our CEO, we've negotiated the terms of the hearing. 1220 01:10:26,363 --> 01:10:29,363 And if he gets away, you know, at the end of it 1221 01:10:29,403 --> 01:10:31,203 and nothing has gone terribly wrong... 1222 01:10:32,203 --> 01:10:34,603 ...that is- You feel professionally... 1223 01:10:35,403 --> 01:10:37,603 Tick. You know, you've done your job. 1224 01:10:43,163 --> 01:10:46,363 The upshot was that any hopes for regulation 1225 01:10:46,403 --> 01:10:48,603 to curtail the power of Facebook 1226 01:10:48,643 --> 01:10:51,043 would never really happen any time soon 1227 01:10:51,083 --> 01:10:53,723 because lawmakers were incapable of doing so. 1228 01:10:53,763 --> 01:10:56,363 REPORTER: Do you feel that any senator here 1229 01:10:56,403 --> 01:10:59,083 has really laid a glove on Mark Zuckerberg? 1230 01:10:59,123 --> 01:11:01,363 If you think being slapped with wet noodles is hard, 1231 01:11:01,403 --> 01:11:02,723 I guess that's hard. 1232 01:11:02,763 --> 01:11:06,483 The real proof that the hearings were not so terrible 1233 01:11:06,523 --> 01:11:09,083 for Facebook or Mark Zuckerberg 1234 01:11:09,123 --> 01:11:11,403 was that Facebook stock rose. 1235 01:11:12,803 --> 01:11:16,603 Mark Zuckerberg became, personally, billions of dollars richer. 1236 01:11:18,603 --> 01:11:21,763 He left that day back to Menlo Park, 1237 01:11:21,803 --> 01:11:25,883 and his lobbyist went to a wine bar in Georgetown to celebrate. 1238 01:11:26,763 --> 01:11:29,203 The hearings were a success from their point of view. 1239 01:11:40,803 --> 01:11:44,403 REPORTER: You might think this is a map of the world, but it's not. 1240 01:11:45,323 --> 01:11:47,083 It's a blank screen. 1241 01:11:47,123 --> 01:11:50,083 And for every person who's using Facebook, we put a dot. 1242 01:11:50,123 --> 01:11:53,043 And when you do that, it effectively draws the world. 1243 01:12:02,363 --> 01:12:04,643 HAUGEN: When I joined Facebook in 2019, 1244 01:12:04,683 --> 01:12:07,603 I think it was actually in kind of a momentary calm. 1245 01:12:08,843 --> 01:12:11,243 The year before they had Cambridge Analytica, 1246 01:12:11,283 --> 01:12:14,003 which had blown up catastrophically. 1247 01:12:14,043 --> 01:12:16,523 So I think if you had asked a random employee, 1248 01:12:16,563 --> 01:12:18,923 they would have said things are looking up. Right. 1249 01:12:18,963 --> 01:12:21,603 We've survived Cambridge Analytica. We've weathered it. 1250 01:12:21,643 --> 01:12:23,883 Our stock is on the upswing. 1251 01:12:25,083 --> 01:12:27,323 You know, I worked on civic misinformation. 1252 01:12:27,363 --> 01:12:29,883 So that's, you know, things like ethnic violence. 1253 01:12:29,923 --> 01:12:32,483 And just a few months before, 1254 01:12:32,523 --> 01:12:36,163 they had realised that they didn't have a policy 1255 01:12:36,203 --> 01:12:38,443 against politicians calling for violence. 1256 01:12:39,723 --> 01:12:42,203 There were now political parties in the world 1257 01:12:42,243 --> 01:12:45,323 that were explicitly doing things like demonizing minorities 1258 01:12:45,363 --> 01:12:48,723 by calling them, you know, 'rodents', that kind of thing. 1259 01:12:49,683 --> 01:12:52,643 And a working group was formed to start figuring out 1260 01:12:52,683 --> 01:12:56,403 what should the policy be when situations like that happen. 1261 01:12:58,123 --> 01:13:01,003 It took a working group of maybe 30 or 40 people, 1262 01:13:01,043 --> 01:13:05,323 months to write the political speech policy 1263 01:13:05,363 --> 01:13:09,123 for Facebook, and they present it to Mark. 1264 01:13:10,563 --> 01:13:13,203 And Mark takes a look at he goes, "I don't like this. 1265 01:13:13,243 --> 01:13:16,323 I can do better." And he goes home that weekend 1266 01:13:16,363 --> 01:13:19,523 and he writes the political speech policy for the company. 1267 01:13:20,683 --> 01:13:23,283 So think for a moment about the arrogance of this. Right. 1268 01:13:23,323 --> 01:13:27,283 So Mark takes the work of like 30, 40 people. 1269 01:13:27,323 --> 01:13:30,243 Many of these people have PhDs in ethnic violence and he says, 1270 01:13:30,283 --> 01:13:34,043 "Oh, no. I can write a better political policy over the weekend. 1271 01:13:34,083 --> 01:13:36,443 I don't think that we want private companies 1272 01:13:36,483 --> 01:13:39,083 censoring politicians in the news. 1273 01:13:39,123 --> 01:13:41,483 I generally believe that as a principle, 1274 01:13:41,523 --> 01:13:44,243 people should decide what is credible 1275 01:13:44,283 --> 01:13:46,803 and what they want to believe and who they want to vote for. 1276 01:13:46,843 --> 01:13:49,883 I don't think that that should be something that we want tech companies 1277 01:13:49,923 --> 01:13:52,363 or any kind of other company doing. 1278 01:13:57,883 --> 01:14:01,003 2020 was a make it or break in moment for Facebook. 1279 01:14:01,043 --> 01:14:03,843 You had a sitting US President, Donald Trump, who was, 1280 01:14:03,883 --> 01:14:07,483 daily, pushing the limits of what should be said on their platform. 1281 01:14:07,523 --> 01:14:10,443 He was using it every single day in ways that were challenging 1282 01:14:10,483 --> 01:14:13,443 for Facebook to defend or make decisions on. 1283 01:14:14,683 --> 01:14:18,243 And there was this real sense inside Facebook of almost daily panic 1284 01:14:18,283 --> 01:14:20,483 of what's he going to say next? 1285 01:14:20,523 --> 01:14:22,603 What kind of PR storm is this going to create for us? 1286 01:14:22,643 --> 01:14:25,163 What kind of negative headline is going to get written today 1287 01:14:25,203 --> 01:14:27,203 about our company? 1288 01:14:28,403 --> 01:14:31,843 I remember the day after the US election speaking to someone 1289 01:14:31,883 --> 01:14:34,203 at Facebook who was on their election team who said, 1290 01:14:34,243 --> 01:14:37,963 "God, what a relief, it's over. Trump has lost." 1291 01:14:41,123 --> 01:14:42,883 Good evening. 1292 01:14:42,923 --> 01:14:46,243 I'd like to provide the American people with an update on our efforts 1293 01:14:46,283 --> 01:14:49,923 to protect the integrity of a very important 2020 election. 1294 01:14:51,243 --> 01:14:53,763 If you count the legal votes, 1295 01:14:53,803 --> 01:14:55,723 I easily win. 1296 01:14:55,763 --> 01:14:58,283 People knew prior to the 2020 election that 1297 01:14:58,323 --> 01:15:01,563 Trump was gonna try to delegitimize the election if he failed, 1298 01:15:01,603 --> 01:15:05,243 and we know this because he had been threatening it for a long time. 1299 01:15:06,083 --> 01:15:09,123 The lead up to January 6th was not random. 1300 01:15:11,803 --> 01:15:14,923 Take me inside Mark Zuckerberg's head to like the moment that 1301 01:15:14,963 --> 01:15:18,363 you decided you needed to change Facebook's core mission. 1302 01:15:18,403 --> 01:15:21,883 I feel like we have a responsibility to do more in the world. 1303 01:15:21,923 --> 01:15:25,443 So, what is the new mission of Facebook? 1304 01:15:25,483 --> 01:15:29,403 So, our new mission is to bring the world closer together. 1305 01:15:29,443 --> 01:15:31,883 What we need to do is empower people 1306 01:15:31,923 --> 01:15:34,243 all around the world to build communities. 1307 01:15:34,283 --> 01:15:36,923 Things like church groups and sports teams 1308 01:15:36,963 --> 01:15:38,963 and neighbourhood groups... (FADES) 1309 01:15:39,003 --> 01:15:41,643 MCNAMEE: Facebook was created initially for people 1310 01:15:41,683 --> 01:15:44,283 who shared an interest to get together 1311 01:15:44,323 --> 01:15:47,523 and which evolved into this gigantic system 1312 01:15:47,563 --> 01:15:50,483 that included both chess clubs 1313 01:15:50,523 --> 01:15:53,323 but also white supremacists and terrorists. 1314 01:15:55,483 --> 01:15:59,043 Facebook groups wound up becoming the home 1315 01:15:59,083 --> 01:16:01,243 to politically engaged extremism. 1316 01:16:03,763 --> 01:16:05,483 That we had not seen before. 1317 01:16:07,683 --> 01:16:11,523 There had been a study, internal Facebook study 1318 01:16:11,563 --> 01:16:14,923 what they discovered was that 64% of the time 1319 01:16:14,963 --> 01:16:18,403 that people join an extremist Facebook group... 1320 01:16:19,763 --> 01:16:23,403 ...the trigger for joining was a recommendation made by Facebook. 1321 01:16:28,123 --> 01:16:31,683 FRENKEL: A group called Stop the Steal started to post on Facebook 1322 01:16:31,723 --> 01:16:35,043 and it is committed to spreading the false idea that the election 1323 01:16:35,083 --> 01:16:37,083 was stolen from Donald Trump, 1324 01:16:37,123 --> 01:16:40,843 and they managed to get hundreds of thousands to join their group. 1325 01:16:40,883 --> 01:16:44,283 Internally in Facebook, there's this kind of moment of panic 1326 01:16:44,323 --> 01:16:46,803 when they realise this is one of the fastest growing groups 1327 01:16:46,843 --> 01:16:49,763 in Facebook's history and it is committed to spreading 1328 01:16:49,803 --> 01:16:52,883 the false idea that the election was stolen from Donald Trump. 1329 01:17:11,203 --> 01:17:14,243 (INDISTINCT SHOUTS) 1330 01:17:14,283 --> 01:17:17,963 And then January rolls around and you have these rallies of people 1331 01:17:18,003 --> 01:17:21,563 all over the United States that are coming together under the banner of 1332 01:17:21,603 --> 01:17:25,323 the election was stolen and they're organizing themselves on Facebook. 1333 01:17:31,723 --> 01:17:35,523 TRUMP: We will never give up. We will never concede it doesn't happen. 1334 01:17:35,563 --> 01:17:38,243 You don't concede with this theft. 1335 01:17:39,243 --> 01:17:42,523 And then you have Trump himself issuing calls on Facebook saying, 1336 01:17:42,563 --> 01:17:46,163 "Come to Washington on January 6th, come rally in my name. 1337 01:17:46,203 --> 01:17:48,083 The election was stolen from me." 1338 01:18:09,763 --> 01:18:12,123 And it is that moment that Facebook understands 1339 01:18:12,163 --> 01:18:14,083 this is a four alarm fire. 1340 01:18:14,123 --> 01:18:16,803 And will this finally be the moment where they have to 1341 01:18:16,843 --> 01:18:19,203 take down Donald Trump's account? 1342 01:18:20,443 --> 01:18:23,403 And Mark kind of sits there and you think, should I call Trump? 1343 01:18:23,443 --> 01:18:25,443 Should I try to use backchannels to him to say, 1344 01:18:25,483 --> 01:18:27,603 "Hey, we're thinking of taking down your account? 1345 01:18:27,643 --> 01:18:30,723 And people close to him say, "I don't think it's a good idea. 1346 01:18:30,763 --> 01:18:33,643 Like, you could be seen as colluding with this." 1347 01:18:41,723 --> 01:18:45,003 People are sharing on Facebook live videos and photos 1348 01:18:45,043 --> 01:18:47,523 of themselves marching through the halls of Congress 1349 01:18:47,563 --> 01:18:51,523 looking for Nancy Pelosi, looking for Vice President Pence. 1350 01:18:56,363 --> 01:18:59,003 If you're Mark Zuckerberg and you've created technology 1351 01:18:59,043 --> 01:19:02,323 whose sole purpose is to connect people, that's your worldview, 1352 01:19:02,363 --> 01:19:04,643 that connecting people is inherently good 1353 01:19:04,683 --> 01:19:07,043 and introducing that technology to the world 1354 01:19:07,083 --> 01:19:09,923 has made you one of the world's wealthiest and most powerful men. 1355 01:19:09,963 --> 01:19:13,883 It is very, very hard, I imagine, to then sit there and think, 1356 01:19:13,923 --> 01:19:17,483 is my underlying premise wrong? Is connecting the world bad? 1357 01:19:19,923 --> 01:19:22,603 And it really is only when it gets to the point where 1358 01:19:22,643 --> 01:19:26,123 people sitting next to me are saying, "This is gonna go to trial, 1359 01:19:26,163 --> 01:19:28,963 there are going to be congressional hearings about this." 1360 01:19:29,003 --> 01:19:32,363 And Donald Trump can continue to use this Facebook page 1361 01:19:32,403 --> 01:19:34,403 to agitate for violence. 1362 01:19:36,643 --> 01:19:38,483 And we're going to get held responsible 1363 01:19:38,523 --> 01:19:42,363 that Mark Zuckerberg sits there and goes, "It's gone too far. 1364 01:19:42,403 --> 01:19:44,643 We need to take down his account." 1365 01:19:44,683 --> 01:19:47,843 REPORTER: Good afternoon and we start with some breaking news, 1366 01:19:47,883 --> 01:19:51,203 President Trump has been banned, indefinitely, from Facebook, 1367 01:19:51,243 --> 01:19:54,123 according to Mark Zuckerberg. In a statement, he said, 1368 01:19:54,163 --> 01:19:57,003 "The current context is now fundamentally different, 1369 01:19:57,043 --> 01:20:00,683 involving use of our platform to incite violent insurrection 1370 01:20:00,723 --> 01:20:03,363 against a democratically elected government. 1371 01:20:16,963 --> 01:20:20,523 FRENKEL: When I started reporting on Facebook, I realised very quickly 1372 01:20:20,563 --> 01:20:23,883 that you needed to have sources at all levels of the company. 1373 01:20:25,043 --> 01:20:27,723 People who work at Facebook are not used to speaking to the press 1374 01:20:27,763 --> 01:20:30,163 because they've been instilled with such a fear of what 1375 01:20:30,203 --> 01:20:32,723 talking to the press can do for their careers. 1376 01:20:34,523 --> 01:20:39,123 There is a very serious top-down threat of if you speak to the press, 1377 01:20:39,163 --> 01:20:41,163 you will not just be fired. 1378 01:20:41,203 --> 01:20:44,563 You will never work in tech again. Your name will be blacklisted. 1379 01:20:45,763 --> 01:20:48,523 It's compounded by these very fierce NDAs, 1380 01:20:48,563 --> 01:20:51,163 which stands for non-disclosure agreements, 1381 01:20:51,203 --> 01:20:53,283 that the people who work there have to sign. 1382 01:20:53,323 --> 01:20:56,603 I used to work in the Middle East, and I used to speak to people 1383 01:20:56,643 --> 01:20:59,683 who were dissenters in governments with dictatorships and monarchies 1384 01:20:59,723 --> 01:21:02,363 where speaking to the press meant being imprisoned. 1385 01:21:02,403 --> 01:21:06,963 And I had an easier time getting people in those countries 1386 01:21:07,003 --> 01:21:08,883 to speak to me sometimes than I did 1387 01:21:08,923 --> 01:21:11,163 getting employees at Facebook to speak to me. 1388 01:21:12,323 --> 01:21:14,643 Facebook for most of its history, 1389 01:21:14,683 --> 01:21:17,883 has had an entire department dedicated to finding leakers. 1390 01:21:17,923 --> 01:21:20,683 People who speak to journalists are rooted out 1391 01:21:20,723 --> 01:21:23,003 and fired in very public ways within the company. 1392 01:21:23,043 --> 01:21:25,123 They're constantly talked about. 1393 01:21:25,163 --> 01:21:28,283 At one point, it was fairly common to talk about them as rats. 1394 01:21:32,403 --> 01:21:35,603 In the aftermath of January six, I realised the only way Facebook 1395 01:21:35,643 --> 01:21:38,763 could save itself is if they got help from the outside 1396 01:21:38,803 --> 01:21:40,643 and so I was ready to blow the whistle. 1397 01:21:45,803 --> 01:21:49,203 Imagine you come in and you think it's a crisis, 1398 01:21:49,243 --> 01:21:51,963 and then you actually sit there and start accumulating the case 1399 01:21:52,003 --> 01:21:54,243 to prove the crisis. 1400 01:21:54,283 --> 01:21:56,123 You know, you think you know how bad it is. 1401 01:21:56,163 --> 01:21:59,163 And now you're like, you're looking at the whole stack of evidence. 1402 01:21:59,203 --> 01:22:02,643 You're like, "Oh, this is far worse than I thought it was. 1403 01:22:04,843 --> 01:22:08,803 It took me a long time to figure out how could I document what the public 1404 01:22:08,843 --> 01:22:11,403 needed to know in a way that would be effective? 1405 01:22:11,443 --> 01:22:13,883 And I took a bunch of screenshots. 1406 01:22:13,923 --> 01:22:16,843 Every time there'd be something that was sufficiently embarrassing, 1407 01:22:16,883 --> 01:22:19,363 they would put up a wall around information. 1408 01:22:19,403 --> 01:22:22,283 And so my fear was that, you know, this was like the last chance, 1409 01:22:22,323 --> 01:22:26,323 like I had to do a good job because the public might never know. 1410 01:22:28,323 --> 01:22:31,083 Blowing the whistle is very complicated, 1411 01:22:31,123 --> 01:22:33,523 and at some point my screen shot stopped working. 1412 01:22:33,563 --> 01:22:36,243 And so I was like, "Oh, so I know I'm being spied on." 1413 01:22:46,043 --> 01:22:49,203 I totally align myself with all the possible consequences 1414 01:22:49,243 --> 01:22:51,283 of what Facebook might do to me if they caught me, 1415 01:22:51,323 --> 01:22:53,963 because I assumed as soon as that journalism happened, 1416 01:22:54,003 --> 01:22:56,683 they would know it was me because they can go and triangulate 1417 01:22:56,723 --> 01:22:59,323 these are the documents. She's the only way to access them. 1418 01:23:00,723 --> 01:23:03,803 In the run up to when the Wall Street Journal began publishing, 1419 01:23:03,843 --> 01:23:06,083 my lawyers basically told me that I was delusional, 1420 01:23:06,123 --> 01:23:08,563 they thought my identity could stay a secret 1421 01:23:08,603 --> 01:23:11,243 because Facebook at any point could out me 1422 01:23:11,283 --> 01:23:14,323 and a lot whistleblowers are discredited. 1423 01:23:14,363 --> 01:23:16,883 And so I got basically gotten presented with the choice, like, 1424 01:23:16,923 --> 01:23:19,123 do you want to tell your own story 1425 01:23:19,163 --> 01:23:21,283 or do you want them to tell your story? 1426 01:23:28,563 --> 01:23:31,683 REPORTER: Scathing accusations from a former Facebook executive 1427 01:23:31,723 --> 01:23:35,523 about how the company handles hate content and misinformation. 1428 01:23:35,563 --> 01:23:37,483 REPORTER: She is the former employee 1429 01:23:37,523 --> 01:23:41,363 who is now accusing the social media giant of knowing how harmful 1430 01:23:41,403 --> 01:23:44,323 their algorithm is for our entire democracy. 1431 01:23:44,363 --> 01:23:48,803 KANG: When Frances Haugen comes out from the shadows 1432 01:23:48,843 --> 01:23:51,083 as the whistleblower. 1433 01:23:51,123 --> 01:23:54,083 It was an astonishing moment. 1434 01:23:54,123 --> 01:23:57,563 A lot of what she had been saying was what we had been hearing. 1435 01:23:57,603 --> 01:24:00,963 We had many Frances Haugen's, but she had documents 1436 01:24:01,003 --> 01:24:04,523 and she was willing to put her face and her name behind that. 1437 01:24:04,563 --> 01:24:06,683 She was willing to testify. 1438 01:24:06,723 --> 01:24:10,603 Facebook's products stoke division and weaken our democracy. 1439 01:24:10,643 --> 01:24:12,643 Almost no one outside of Facebook 1440 01:24:12,683 --> 01:24:14,723 knows what happens inside of Facebook. 1441 01:24:15,643 --> 01:24:19,483 The company intentionally hides vital information from the public. 1442 01:24:21,003 --> 01:24:23,723 Perhaps one of the most disturbing 1443 01:24:23,763 --> 01:24:27,563 and surprising revelations from Frances Haugen 1444 01:24:27,603 --> 01:24:30,043 was that there were internal studies 1445 01:24:30,083 --> 01:24:34,123 on how Facebook's recommendation engines 1446 01:24:34,163 --> 01:24:37,003 can lead teenagers into these rabbit holes. 1447 01:24:37,043 --> 01:24:39,883 REPORTER: A troubling new report today spells out 1448 01:24:39,923 --> 01:24:42,363 what all that time on social media is doing to our teenagers. 1449 01:24:42,403 --> 01:24:47,563 For example, a teenager looking at some influencer of fitness 1450 01:24:47,603 --> 01:24:51,203 would then get served to them, recommendations to diets, 1451 01:24:51,243 --> 01:24:54,283 and then that would then lead to 1452 01:24:54,323 --> 01:24:57,403 recommendations for eating disorders, 1453 01:24:57,443 --> 01:25:00,923 things like bulimia, how to become anorexic, 1454 01:25:00,963 --> 01:25:03,243 really destructive behaviour. 1455 01:25:03,283 --> 01:25:06,523 Content that elicits an extreme reaction from you 1456 01:25:06,563 --> 01:25:09,963 is more likely to get a click, a comment or reshare. 1457 01:25:10,003 --> 01:25:14,603 These are the kinds of rabbit holes that were leading to suicide. 1458 01:25:14,643 --> 01:25:16,683 Thoughts of suicide ideation. 1459 01:25:16,723 --> 01:25:19,163 And Facebook understood this. 1460 01:25:19,203 --> 01:25:21,203 It was, in fact, studying this. 1461 01:25:21,243 --> 01:25:24,123 The company's leadership knows how to make Facebook 1462 01:25:24,163 --> 01:25:27,403 and Instagram safer but won't make the necessary changes 1463 01:25:27,443 --> 01:25:31,403 because they have put their astronomical profits before people. 1464 01:25:50,803 --> 01:25:54,723 It is time for us to adopt a new company brand 1465 01:25:54,763 --> 01:25:57,963 to encompass everything that we do, 1466 01:25:58,003 --> 01:26:01,723 to reflect who we are and what we hope to build. 1467 01:26:01,763 --> 01:26:04,523 I am proud to announce that starting today, 1468 01:26:04,563 --> 01:26:07,963 our company is now Meta. 1469 01:26:08,003 --> 01:26:10,003 I gotta pause that. 1470 01:26:10,043 --> 01:26:12,523 Look. L- Look! 1471 01:26:13,963 --> 01:26:17,683 Let's remember, all this pride 1472 01:26:17,723 --> 01:26:20,923 and this cocky stuff was at the exact moment 1473 01:26:20,963 --> 01:26:24,963 when all of Frances Haugen's whistleblowing revelations 1474 01:26:25,003 --> 01:26:28,523 were cascading across the news media. 1475 01:26:28,563 --> 01:26:31,003 When they were getting new articles every day 1476 01:26:31,043 --> 01:26:34,363 based on Frances Haugen's documentation that, basically, 1477 01:26:34,403 --> 01:26:39,163 proved their culpability, at the height of that period. 1478 01:26:39,203 --> 01:26:42,243 They had a big press conference to change their name 1479 01:26:42,283 --> 01:26:45,603 and make their new strategy, the Metaverse! 1480 01:26:45,643 --> 01:26:48,643 And you know what? It worked. 1481 01:26:51,523 --> 01:26:53,523 Now... 1482 01:26:54,643 --> 01:26:57,363 You know, I really just cared about building something that 1483 01:26:57,403 --> 01:27:00,243 my girls are going to grow up and be proud of me for. 1484 01:27:01,723 --> 01:27:05,763 And I mean, that's what is kind of my guiding philosophy at this point is, 1485 01:27:05,803 --> 01:27:09,843 and I- you know, come and work on a lot of hard things during the day. 1486 01:27:09,883 --> 01:27:14,003 And I go home and just ask, "Will my girls be proud of what I did today?" 1487 01:27:18,443 --> 01:27:22,043 FRENKEL: There's no doubt history is going to remember Mark Zuckerberg 1488 01:27:22,083 --> 01:27:24,843 for creating the first really global social media company. 1489 01:27:26,043 --> 01:27:30,483 I don't see how we as a society go back in time to a point where 1490 01:27:30,523 --> 01:27:33,403 we're not all instantaneously connected to everyone 1491 01:27:33,443 --> 01:27:35,443 we want to be connected to all over the world. 1492 01:27:35,483 --> 01:27:37,883 It really has created a new reality. 1493 01:27:41,283 --> 01:27:45,323 I think the people closest to Mark that have now left the company 1494 01:27:45,363 --> 01:27:48,763 and reflect on their time there say that 1495 01:27:48,803 --> 01:27:51,683 the biggest problems at Facebook come 1496 01:27:51,723 --> 01:27:55,003 because of the absolute power that was handed to one individual. 1497 01:27:55,043 --> 01:27:57,603 It's the President of the United States! 1498 01:27:59,523 --> 01:28:03,043 And that no matter how smart you were as a 19 or 20-year-old 1499 01:28:03,083 --> 01:28:05,643 in creating a very specific type of technology, 1500 01:28:05,683 --> 01:28:08,123 there is just no situation in which it is appropriate 1501 01:28:08,163 --> 01:28:11,723 for one person to have unbridled power 1502 01:28:11,763 --> 01:28:14,403 and decision-making over such a large group of people. 1503 01:28:14,443 --> 01:28:17,563 And that by having really no cheques and balances 1504 01:28:17,603 --> 01:28:20,403 on Mark Zuckerberg's power or his decision making, 1505 01:28:20,443 --> 01:28:23,283 Facebook ultimately made a number of mistakes 1506 01:28:23,323 --> 01:28:26,203 that affected millions of people all over the world. 1507 01:28:39,363 --> 01:28:42,843 When someone becomes worth $100 billion 1508 01:28:42,883 --> 01:28:45,603 and is the richest person in human history of that age, 1509 01:28:45,643 --> 01:28:51,043 it makes them feel magical... unchallengeable 1510 01:28:51,083 --> 01:28:56,843 and, I feel, self-justifying to a tremendously harmful degree. 1511 01:29:04,563 --> 01:29:08,923 KANG: The main question of Facebook going forward is, 1512 01:29:08,963 --> 01:29:10,963 who keeps Mark Zuckerberg in check? 1513 01:29:12,483 --> 01:29:16,043 There are very few people that hold him accountable. 1514 01:29:16,083 --> 01:29:19,043 Who's the one who tells him, "Mark, 1515 01:29:19,083 --> 01:29:21,763 that decision may not be good for the company? 1516 01:29:21,803 --> 01:29:24,163 It may not be good for the business model." 1517 01:29:25,083 --> 01:29:28,443 And very importantly, who is asking him, 1518 01:29:28,483 --> 01:29:32,603 "Mark Zuckerberg, is that decision you're making good for the world?" 1519 01:30:07,803 --> 01:30:14,763 AccessibleCustomerService@sky.uk