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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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[dramatic music]

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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- [Mackay Voiceover] I
wish to make a statement.

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I want someone to
write down what I say.

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I have been told I
need not say anything

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unless I wish to do so

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and what I say may
be given in evidence.

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♪ Sometimes I feel
like I'm blowing away ♪

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♪ And the sky is broken

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♪ And floods like a vein

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♪ And I pray and I pray

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♪ And I pray and I pray

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♪ But the answers don't come

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- [Mackay Voiceover] I grabbed
hold of him by his arm,

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I think the right one,

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and we both fell on the
floor in the hallway.

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I struggled and he
struggled on the floor

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and he seemed to
get extremely nervy.

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He said, "Don't hurt me."

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This seemed to get me
even more excitable myself

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and then I started to strike him

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on the side of the head with
my hand and with my fist.

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[gentle music]

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[birds chirping]

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[gentle music]

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The next thing I knew he had
broken loose from my grip

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and ran into the bathroom,
which is just off the hallway.

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[gentle music]

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Whilst I had been on the
floor of the hallway myself,

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I picked up an ax from a box,
lying just under the stairs,

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and began to feel
even more excitable.

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[gentle music]

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♪ Sometimes I feel like
I'm floating away ♪

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♪ And the tide is up

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♪ It covers the pain

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- [Mackay Voiceover] I have had

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the above statement
read over to me.

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I have been told I
can correct, alter

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or add anything I wish.

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♪ The answers don't
come anymore ♪

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- [Mackay Voiceover]
This statement is true,

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I have made it of
my own free will.

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Signed P. Mackay.

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[gentle music]

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Good gracious, this
still, it's vivid today,

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you know, you can remember
all those years ago.

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There is Father Crean in,
really a bath of blood now.

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[dramatic music]

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This is where Mackay
really attacked him.

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You can see the damage he's
done under his nostrils.

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He really took a heavy
lot of punching there.

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[dramatic music]

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By this time he had
actually killed him

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and he had killed
him with an ax.

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- [Reporter] Police
have searched the house,

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the sizable garden and
a plowed field behind it

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for signs of the
murderer or his weapon.

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- This is the ax that was
found under the stairs

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in Father Crean's house.

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[dramatic music]

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And this is the ax that actually

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battered Father Crean to death.

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It had brain and blood,

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still probably has
if you was to DNA it.

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And down the handle
you got blood.

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[dramatic music]

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But there's the ax and it's
still today got the label on it

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as an exhibit
label in this case.

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Christ, this is Patrick,

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when you see him actually
getting worked up

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into a bit of a frenzy.

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You look at this photo and
this is where you can see,

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if you're trained at it,
the eyes of a killer.

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Never be unconscious to people
when you are looking at them.

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[dramatic music]

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Look 'em in the eyes,

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they're like an
Alsation gone wild.

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[dramatic music]

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- [Mackay Voiceover]
I feel terrible

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about what happened
all the more.

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[crow cawing]

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Because I do not know why
or what made me do it.

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I find it all a
confusing matter.

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You see, I'm scared of myself.

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At times I often
try to wonder why,

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but it's just plain hell.

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[dramatic music]

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I'm Ken Tappenden, retired
commander of Kent Police.

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And in March, 1975

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I was the Detective Inspector

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in charge of Gravesend
and Dartford Police.

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[gentle music]

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Gravesend has always
been the place

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that people never
wanted to be posted to.

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And there was a fair amount
of rough hooliganism going on.

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Lots of burglaries,
lots of GBHs,

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and in my time there, I think
I had about five murders.

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[typewriter keys clacking]

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[dramatic music]

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We came into what I call,
on that 21st, a normal day.

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But we were looking forward
to our celebration do

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in Maidstone, when
we were all going out

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in our DJs to enjoy the evening.

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We all went to what was then
the Great Danes in Maidstone,

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for this dinner.

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And that's when the
first indication we had

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that there was something
wrong back in Shorne.

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[dramatic music]

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The village of Shorne
was a very respectable

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and very nice village.

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[dramatic music]

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Father Crean lived in
the Carmelite home.

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There was nine nuns only there.

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He had been a vicar in Spain.

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He had been a
vicar in Gibraltar.

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He'd been around the world a bit

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before he came over to Shorne.

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[dramatic music]

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A nun had gone into the bathroom

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and found the gruesome sight

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of Father Crean in
a bloodstain bath,

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holding his head with
like a towel on top of it

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with his brain coming out.

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So we knew then we had problems.

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[dramatic music]

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- I was awakened by
one of the sisters

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who said that Father had been
found dead in his bathroom.

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I thought, naturally,
he had a heart attack.

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I hardly got dressed
and came across.

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When I got there I saw Father
in the bathtub, fully dressed,

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submerged in the tub
and bashed in the face,

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blood all over the bathroom.

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- We then left the function,

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leaving our wives over
there still in Maidstone

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to return to Shorne,
all in our DJs,

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at about half past
12 in the morning.

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[dramatic music]

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As soon as we got
there, we saw the ax,

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which was under the
stairs, in a box still,

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but it was blood stained.

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The minute we got into the room

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you knew that was the weapon.

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[dramatic music]

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We then walked in.

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We didn't have far to walk.

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You go in, you see the bath
on the right, as you go in,

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you see his head hanging out,

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you see the curtains were drawn,

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blood was all over the walls.

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The water that was in
the bath was pure red.

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It was blood.

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It was so macabre.

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I mean you've seen
a lot of murders,

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I've seen a lots of murders,

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I've done 169 post-mortems.

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But I hadn't seen a head

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smashed from the skull
down the nose before.

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[dramatic music]

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The human part is,

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how can someone do it?

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But then you've gotta
revert to a detective.

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You've gotta catch
some bastard for it.

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[dramatic music]

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On the way back to the
nick, I'm mulling over

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and I'm mulling over.

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But the minute I sat at my desk,

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it just vividly came over me.

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[dramatic music]

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This could be Mackay.

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[dramatic music]

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- I'm Nigel Nelson.

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I was formerly the crime reporter
on the Kent Evening Post.

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The people I was
dealing with at the time

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were the head of CID
there, who was Lou Hart.

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The detective inspector who
I spent most of my time with,

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which was Ken Tappenden.

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And quite clearly
they really were,

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even though they'd seen some pretty
horrific sites during their career,

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they were both pretty hard
bitten police officers.

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They found the whole experience
actually quite traumatic.

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The timing from a
newspaper point of view

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was absolutely hopeless

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because the killing
happened on the Friday,

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nobody knew about anything
until the Saturday morning.

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My problem was going to be

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that we didn't publish
until the Monday.

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I talked to police
contacts during that time.

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One of the things
they told me was,

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they had a suspect and
they were pretty sure

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they would get an early arrest.

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- My name's John Lucas.

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I'm a journalist with
National Newspapers

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and I wrote a book
about Patrick Mackay

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called, "Britain's
Forgotten Serial Killer."

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In May, 1973, Father
Crean met Patrick Mackay

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whilst walking
through woodlands,

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near the village of Shorne.

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They got chatting in the woods
and retired to a local pub

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00:10:08,220 --> 00:10:11,553
where they drank quite
a lot of alcohol.

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Mackay was used to spending
all of his money in pubs,

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winning the favor
of of other people,

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trying to make friends.

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On this occasion, Father
Crean bought the drinks.

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And it seemed to be a match
made in heaven for them both,

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00:10:23,953 --> 00:10:25,247
at that time.

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00:10:25,327 --> 00:10:28,487
It has to be said, Father
Crean was a heavy drinker.

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That is an explanation
for the friendship.

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00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:32,487
They kind of bonded over
this love of alcohol.

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- Father Crean was
trying to sort of

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hold out a hand of
friendship to Patrick Mackay.

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00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,553
And he'd come to the
notice of the police

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00:10:39,553 --> 00:10:42,853
because he stole a
cheque from Father Crean,

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it was a cheque for £30.

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00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:47,553
- He crudely alters
it, to say £80

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00:10:47,553 --> 00:10:49,487
and he goes and cashes
it in at a bank.

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00:10:50,457 --> 00:10:53,223
Father Crean quickly realizes
the cheque's been taken,

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00:10:53,263 --> 00:10:54,620
reports it to the police.

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00:10:54,620 --> 00:10:56,693
It doesn't take the police
very long to figure out

220
00:10:56,743 --> 00:10:58,720
that it was Patrick
Mackay who took it.

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As soon as he's arrested,

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00:11:00,030 --> 00:11:02,240
Father Crean asked if the
charges can be dropped,

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00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,583
Kent CID turn around and say,

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00:11:04,613 --> 00:11:06,887
"No, we're gonna go ahead
with this prosecution."

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00:11:06,887 --> 00:11:08,753
- He was only fined £10.

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00:11:08,753 --> 00:11:11,420
It was insignificant in a way.

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00:11:11,420 --> 00:11:14,023
But it just showed him that
he can't just do what he wants

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and get away with it.

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00:11:15,487 --> 00:11:16,973
- Father Crean and Patrick

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00:11:17,053 --> 00:11:19,887
do rekindle their friendship
for a short while.

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00:11:19,887 --> 00:11:23,187
However, Mackay doesn't
pay any of the money back.

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Father Crean tells him,

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"I don't want anything
more to do with you."

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00:11:26,387 --> 00:11:28,987
And he storms off in his car,

235
00:11:29,277 --> 00:11:32,230
leaving Patrick Mackay
in the rear window

236
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,210
and he thinks that's the
last time he'll ever see him.

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00:11:34,620 --> 00:11:36,520
[dramatic music]

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00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,683
- It was about 20 past three
in the morning of the 22nd

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00:11:39,733 --> 00:11:42,987
and that cheque,
it was in my mind.

240
00:11:42,987 --> 00:11:45,853
And they say, you have a
hunch, I dunno if it's a hunch,

241
00:11:45,853 --> 00:11:49,287
I don't call it anything
other than I thought,

242
00:11:49,287 --> 00:11:51,387
I reckon Mackay's done this.

243
00:11:51,387 --> 00:11:53,787
So I call Bob Brown
and Mit Whitlock out,

244
00:11:53,787 --> 00:11:56,020
who dealt with
him for the check,

245
00:11:56,020 --> 00:11:59,687
and I said, sorry gents,
go and find Mackay.

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00:11:59,687 --> 00:12:02,753
[dramatic music]

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00:12:02,753 --> 00:12:04,320
- [Mackay Voiceover]
My life was wasted.

248
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,320
And I now realized that it
is now wasted forever to rot.

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00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,420
[dramatic music]

250
00:12:10,420 --> 00:12:12,603
Something terrible
had to come along

251
00:12:12,643 --> 00:12:15,240
in order to reveal
the decaying disaster

252
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,647
that my life has
been since 1962.

253
00:12:18,657 --> 00:12:21,553
[dramatic music]

254
00:12:21,553 --> 00:12:25,953
- Patrick David Mackay was
born on 25th of September, 1952

255
00:12:25,953 --> 00:12:29,153
to Marion and Harold Mackay.

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00:12:29,153 --> 00:12:31,587
The family initially
lived in North London,

257
00:12:31,587 --> 00:12:34,720
they later moved to
Dartford in Kent.

258
00:12:35,153 --> 00:12:36,420
- I'm John Penycate,

259
00:12:36,420 --> 00:12:40,120
I'm the co-author of
the Life of Mackay,

260
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,653
the book was called,
"Psychopath."

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00:12:42,653 --> 00:12:45,453
Mackay's childhood,
in many ways,

262
00:12:45,453 --> 00:12:47,520
explained what happened later.

263
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,887
It was a very violent household.

264
00:12:49,887 --> 00:12:53,917
His father had been in the
army, in the war, drank heavily

265
00:12:54,553 --> 00:12:58,153
and was very violent
towards his wife

266
00:12:58,153 --> 00:13:00,587
and to Patrick the little boy.

267
00:13:00,587 --> 00:13:03,687
- Although Harold was extremely
abusive towards Patrick,

268
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they did share a
really strange bond.

269
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One of the only times they
really bonded as father and son

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00:13:08,287 --> 00:13:11,287
was when Harold would
sit Patrick on his knee

271
00:13:11,287 --> 00:13:15,120
and he'd talk about his
experiences during the war,

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00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,127
the gruesome things
that he had seen

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and experienced himself.

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And through this,

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Patrick developed a fascination
with death, war, conflict.

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- [Mackay Voiceover] My father
used to get violently drunk,

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shout, scream and always
when he was like this,

278
00:13:34,787 --> 00:13:39,420
beat me with the back of his
hand, sometimes his fist.

279
00:13:40,020 --> 00:13:42,453
He must have had a
tremendous drinking problem.

280
00:13:42,453 --> 00:13:45,123
But of course he
would never say so.

281
00:13:45,820 --> 00:13:48,293
I remember that my
father never at all

282
00:13:48,343 --> 00:13:52,720
hit my two sisters when drunk,
but only me and my mother.

283
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,787
He would make a lot of filthy
accusations towards her.

284
00:13:56,787 --> 00:13:58,143
This would take place,

285
00:13:58,163 --> 00:14:00,980
usually, Friday nights
and Saturday nights.

286
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It was plain, bloody regular.

287
00:14:05,180 --> 00:14:06,567
- My name's Laura Reilly.

288
00:14:06,657 --> 00:14:10,287
I'm a criminologist at
Birmingham City University.

289
00:14:10,287 --> 00:14:11,853
It's definitely
the perfect storm,

290
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if you wanted to create
someone who is psychopathic

291
00:14:14,903 --> 00:14:18,320
and you say, let's take
someone whose father has PTSD,

292
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let's make that father
engage in substance abuse

293
00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:22,087
and be an alcoholic,

294
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let's give him a difficult
relationship with his wife

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and make him a domestic abuser.

296
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Let's then have
him abuse his son

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and then let's also
put him in a time

298
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when there wasn't great safeguarding,
great understanding.

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In the 1970s, if you'd just
said psychopath to somebody,

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they probably would've
thought bad person

301
00:14:40,117 --> 00:14:41,437
who commits a violent crime.

302
00:14:41,477 --> 00:14:43,030
If said it to someone now,

303
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they might have some awareness

304
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of some of the other
traits someone might have,

305
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like parasitic lifestyle,
like criminal versatility,

306
00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:53,453
committing more than
one type of offense

307
00:14:53,453 --> 00:14:56,520
and other sort of elements
that aren't actually criminal

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and can be really helpful,

309
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like having glib or
superficial charm.

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So, our understanding now
is very, very different

311
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than if we were having this
conversation in the 1970s.

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[gentle music]

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- My name is Dr.
Vicky Thakordas-Desai.

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I'm a forensic psychologist

315
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and I specialize in
areas such as trauma,

316
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mental health and
personality disorder.

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[dramatic music]

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As a result of Mackay's
father's alcoholism,

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the family didn't have
the means to survive.

320
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That sort of low
socioeconomic status,

321
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that level of poverty,

322
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alongside the trauma
that he was experiencing,

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really started to
set those foundations

324
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for the types of behavior
that we subsequently see.

325
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- In November, 1962, Harold
who's working as an accountant,

326
00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:48,246
leaves for work one morning.

327
00:15:48,246 --> 00:15:50,713
The last thing he
says to Patrick is,

328
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"Remember to be good."

329
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,613
Later that morning he drops
dead at the train station.

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00:15:55,613 --> 00:15:58,746
[gentle music]

331
00:15:58,746 --> 00:16:00,280
Unfortunately for Patrick,

332
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the way he hears about
his father's death

333
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is from a neighbor,

334
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as he's just casually
walking home from school.

335
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It shocks him into
complete silence,

336
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he becomes incredibly withdrawn.

337
00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:12,713
And he seems never to be able

338
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to get to grips with
his father's death.

339
00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,713
Outside of the family home,
he is a playground bully,

340
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he's a delinquent, a shoplifter

341
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and he is engaging in lots of
petty crimes at this point.

342
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- In Mackay's case, his
offending massively escalates.

343
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He does sort of sanitize
his previous offending

344
00:16:31,146 --> 00:16:32,630
when he discusses it

345
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and says that he was a bit
of a tearaway before then.

346
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But actually it's only
after his father dies

347
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that he goes off the rails.

348
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[dramatic music]

349
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- [Mackay Voiceover]
In one way, his death

350
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was a relief to me, at the time.

351
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But also on the other hand

352
00:16:49,636 --> 00:16:53,113
it was a natural loss of a
father who, like a lot of men,

353
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have their good sides as
well as their bad sides.

354
00:16:56,846 --> 00:16:59,480
[gentle music]

355
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But it was also the year

356
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when I seemed to
change within myself

357
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to an extreme extent, all round.

358
00:17:05,580 --> 00:17:08,246
[gentle music]

359
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- The family moved
to Gravesend in 1967,

360
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,146
this is after Harold's death.

361
00:17:15,146 --> 00:17:16,593
Patrick would do things

362
00:17:16,633 --> 00:17:19,513
like he will sit in
his father's old seat.

363
00:17:19,513 --> 00:17:22,113
If anyone tries to sit
there, he will scream

364
00:17:22,113 --> 00:17:24,380
in a blood curdling rage,

365
00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:25,880
he'll throw himself on the floor

366
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:26,349
he'll throw himself on the floor
and almost appear to have a fit

367
00:17:26,349 --> 00:17:27,646
and almost appear to have a fit

368
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where he's frothing
at the mouth.

369
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- He then took on the role

370
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of being the man of
the house, it seemed,

371
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and almost adopted
his father's behavior.

372
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,346
And that came out through
his violent attacks

373
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and abusive behavior towards
his mother, particularly,

374
00:17:46,180 --> 00:17:48,280
and subsequently his sisters.

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[dramatic music]

376
00:17:49,513 --> 00:17:52,580
- Sometimes we find
that when children

377
00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:55,480
grow up in a house
with domestic abuse,

378
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,946
far from becoming protective
of the abused parent,

379
00:17:58,946 --> 00:18:00,263
usually the mother,

380
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they actually begin to
identify with the abuser.

381
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That might seem really
odd and counterintuitive,

382
00:18:06,713 --> 00:18:08,436
but you've gotta think about it

383
00:18:08,466 --> 00:18:10,096
in terms of the lesson
it's teaching you,

384
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the survival instinct.

385
00:18:11,363 --> 00:18:13,646
It is saying you have
two role models here,

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00:18:13,646 --> 00:18:16,013
passive mom who is a victim

387
00:18:16,013 --> 00:18:19,980
and violent dad who is
obviously an abuser.

388
00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:22,233
Do you wanna be the
victim or do you wanna be

389
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the one who's victimizing?

390
00:18:23,746 --> 00:18:25,746
[dramatic music]

391
00:18:25,746 --> 00:18:28,363
- This is where Patrick
lived with his family.

392
00:18:28,403 --> 00:18:31,313
This was Frobisher
Way in Gravesend.

393
00:18:31,313 --> 00:18:35,146
The neighbors used to get quite
concerned about this house

394
00:18:35,146 --> 00:18:38,363
because as he was getting
more and more unruly,

395
00:18:38,393 --> 00:18:40,180
in the house, then the neighbors

396
00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:42,180
used to call social services.

397
00:18:42,180 --> 00:18:43,480
[gentle music]

398
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,280
- My name is Di Dooley.

399
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,246
I used to live next
door to Patrick Mackay

400
00:18:49,246 --> 00:18:51,746
and his mom and two sisters.

401
00:18:51,746 --> 00:18:53,680
Most of the neighbors
and the children,

402
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,346
they were in fear of him.

403
00:18:55,346 --> 00:18:58,713
My mom used to tell me
to keep away from him

404
00:18:58,713 --> 00:19:00,366
because of the way he was.

405
00:19:00,396 --> 00:19:01,843
He was very imposing.

406
00:19:01,883 --> 00:19:06,270
He was just like this
dark shadow in the street.

407
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,270
- I'm Pat Poulson,
live in Frobisher Way,

408
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have done since '67.

409
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,393
For a while, next door but one,

410
00:19:14,433 --> 00:19:15,913
lived a family called Mackay.

411
00:19:16,173 --> 00:19:18,830
They pretty much kept
themselves to themselves

412
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:20,046
when they moved in.

413
00:19:20,046 --> 00:19:22,213
But then there was a
number of occasions

414
00:19:22,213 --> 00:19:25,413
when I'd look out of
the kitchen window

415
00:19:25,483 --> 00:19:27,433
or the landing
window and see one

416
00:19:27,473 --> 00:19:29,813
or both of the
girls lived there,

417
00:19:29,813 --> 00:19:32,313
sitting on the garage roof.

418
00:19:32,523 --> 00:19:35,750
And it soon came apparent
that they were up there

419
00:19:35,860 --> 00:19:38,053
to keep away from
their brother, Patrick.

420
00:19:39,313 --> 00:19:41,013
Try to be polite here,

421
00:19:41,013 --> 00:19:45,406
he was a slightly strange
looking young man, very skinny

422
00:19:49,046 --> 00:19:52,046
and he just had, there was
something about his face,

423
00:19:52,046 --> 00:19:53,650
his eyes in particular

424
00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:57,546
that just made you feel a
little uncomfortable about him.

425
00:19:57,546 --> 00:20:00,213
[gentle music]

426
00:20:01,213 --> 00:20:03,503
- My mom, you know, obviously,

427
00:20:03,543 --> 00:20:06,726
grew quite close with the
mom and the girls next door,

428
00:20:06,766 --> 00:20:09,976
so she was obviously
worried about them.

429
00:20:10,006 --> 00:20:13,933
So she used to
always say to them,

430
00:20:13,983 --> 00:20:16,846
"Look, you know, my back
door is always open,

431
00:20:16,846 --> 00:20:19,013
"the back gate's open."

432
00:20:19,013 --> 00:20:22,780
They knew it was their safe
place, somewhere for them to go.

433
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:25,720
You just knew something
was going to happen.

434
00:20:25,770 --> 00:20:28,510
You could hear it early
on, hear it starting.

435
00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:30,856
It would just get
louder and louder.

436
00:20:30,906 --> 00:20:33,490
So my mom would always
be in the kitchen,

437
00:20:33,510 --> 00:20:35,180
like at the window,

438
00:20:35,180 --> 00:20:38,713
I think, waiting
for them to come in.

439
00:20:38,713 --> 00:20:40,453
You could see
where he'd hit them

440
00:20:40,493 --> 00:20:42,413
and they had bruises
on their faces

441
00:20:42,413 --> 00:20:44,850
and their arms and everything,

442
00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:47,130
so you could see where
he'd attacked them.

443
00:20:48,246 --> 00:20:51,796
You could still hear him
smashing things up in the house.

444
00:20:51,886 --> 00:20:54,086
They just needed
to get out of there

445
00:20:54,156 --> 00:20:55,653
because of the way he was.

446
00:20:55,683 --> 00:20:57,646
Two or three
policemen would come

447
00:20:57,646 --> 00:21:00,560
and try and calm things down

448
00:21:00,610 --> 00:21:03,813
and they were never
able to calm it down.

449
00:21:03,813 --> 00:21:07,136
They would have to call
for more policemen to come.

450
00:21:07,216 --> 00:21:09,740
It would be like
eight, 10 policemen

451
00:21:09,790 --> 00:21:12,513
having to carry Patrick
out of the house,

452
00:21:12,513 --> 00:21:15,580
because he would be
screaming and fighting

453
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,613
that he wasn't going
to go anywhere.

454
00:21:17,613 --> 00:21:20,646
[dramatic music]

455
00:21:20,646 --> 00:21:24,213
- Patrick Mackay is a typical
psychopath at this point.

456
00:21:24,213 --> 00:21:28,440
He's experimenting
with inflicting pain

457
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,983
on defenseless creatures,

458
00:21:31,013 --> 00:21:32,880
so things that are more
vulnerable than him,

459
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,280
the pet cat, the dog,

460
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,613
he's seen by neighbors
killing birds in the garden

461
00:21:38,613 --> 00:21:41,646
and throwing them up in
the air as if they're toys.

462
00:21:41,646 --> 00:21:44,946
- He would catch birds and
pull the wings off them

463
00:21:44,946 --> 00:21:47,246
and then he set
fire to his tortoise

464
00:21:47,246 --> 00:21:49,290
in the back garden
there one day.

465
00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:50,846
Well, the neighbors naturally

466
00:21:50,846 --> 00:21:53,186
were quite alarmed
about all this.

467
00:21:53,246 --> 00:21:54,346
- Thinking back,

468
00:21:54,346 --> 00:21:56,756
maybe everything that
my mom had said to me,

469
00:21:56,806 --> 00:21:59,000
it turned out to
be true, didn't it?

470
00:21:59,100 --> 00:22:00,413
Turned out to be true,

471
00:22:01,313 --> 00:22:05,493
that he, you know, he
wasn't a nice person.

472
00:22:06,380 --> 00:22:08,593
- As a juvenile, he
was committing crimes

473
00:22:08,633 --> 00:22:10,043
all over the place.

474
00:22:10,203 --> 00:22:13,153
And although he used to live
at home with his mother,

475
00:22:13,183 --> 00:22:16,486
eventually when he'd
come into his mid-teens,

476
00:22:16,516 --> 00:22:18,060
he used to slope off anywhere.

477
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:19,536
They didn't know where he was.

478
00:22:19,576 --> 00:22:21,953
His mother would never
let you know where he was.

479
00:22:21,993 --> 00:22:23,460
She used to say
he is a grown man.

480
00:22:23,490 --> 00:22:26,313
A grown man at
16, 17, he wasn't.

481
00:22:26,313 --> 00:22:29,846
[dramatic music]

482
00:22:29,846 --> 00:22:33,806
- These factors are very
much indicative of a really,

483
00:22:33,846 --> 00:22:37,846
sort of, dysfunctional
personality style emerging.

484
00:22:37,846 --> 00:22:40,430
But even at that age,
it would be hoped

485
00:22:40,470 --> 00:22:43,876
that he would have had and
received appropriate support

486
00:22:43,916 --> 00:22:47,060
and intervention to
change that trajectory.

487
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:48,876
But that wasn't the
case for Mackay.

488
00:22:48,896 --> 00:22:50,456
He went on to continue.

489
00:22:50,486 --> 00:22:53,613
And those behaviors increased
in severity and intensity.

490
00:22:53,613 --> 00:22:57,370
Without appropriate
intervention at the right stages

491
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:58,720
and without the right support,

492
00:22:58,750 --> 00:23:00,586
he was moving along a trajectory

493
00:23:00,616 --> 00:23:03,010
that suggested that
he would and could

494
00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:04,746
become a serious
violent offender.

495
00:23:04,746 --> 00:23:06,880
[dramatic music]

496
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,903
- I suppose nowadays
that he would've been

497
00:23:09,943 --> 00:23:11,403
removed from his home.

498
00:23:11,413 --> 00:23:15,270
But at the time, his
mother always forgave him,

499
00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,070
always took him back.

500
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,023
And even right to
the end, she said

501
00:23:20,093 --> 00:23:22,183
that Patrick was not a monster,

502
00:23:22,243 --> 00:23:24,010
he was just a very
sick young man.

503
00:23:24,050 --> 00:23:25,280
[dramatic music]

504
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,550
- He often used to disappear
for periods on time,

505
00:23:27,580 --> 00:23:28,980
when it was nice and quiet.

506
00:23:29,070 --> 00:23:31,113
You wouldn't have known there
was anybody living there.

507
00:23:31,583 --> 00:23:32,953
But when he came home,

508
00:23:33,013 --> 00:23:34,630
all of the neighbors
soon got to the stage

509
00:23:34,660 --> 00:23:36,280
where you thought,
"Oh gosh, he's home.

510
00:23:36,670 --> 00:23:39,146
"Are we going to
have more problems?"

511
00:23:39,146 --> 00:23:42,080
I mean there was one
incident, in particular,

512
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,373
when we had a lot of
police presence up here

513
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,346
and they had ladders
outside the house

514
00:23:50,716 --> 00:23:53,146
up to the small bedroom window.

515
00:23:53,580 --> 00:23:56,753
And we learnt later that
Patrick was actually

516
00:23:56,793 --> 00:24:00,260
in the small bedroom and
had positioned himself

517
00:24:00,350 --> 00:24:04,263
between the end of
his bed and the door

518
00:24:04,353 --> 00:24:06,413
and had a bayonet positioned

519
00:24:06,603 --> 00:24:08,756
so that the handle
was against the door

520
00:24:08,796 --> 00:24:10,780
and the point was
against his stomach.

521
00:24:10,780 --> 00:24:14,610
And just telling it, you know,
"If you try and break in,

522
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,120
"you'll be responsible
for killing me."

523
00:24:18,486 --> 00:24:20,286
And the incident went
on for some time.

524
00:24:20,286 --> 00:24:22,216
I mean, the police came
round to the houses,

525
00:24:22,366 --> 00:24:24,920
asking us, "Definitely
don't let the children out

526
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,386
"and if possible, don't
go out of the house at all

527
00:24:27,386 --> 00:24:28,960
"until this is over."

528
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,726
And eventually they did get
into him and he was taken away.

529
00:24:33,856 --> 00:24:35,120
[dramatic music]

530
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:36,460
- My name's Dr. Harriet Garrod.

531
00:24:36,490 --> 00:24:38,620
I'm a consultant
counseling psychologist.

532
00:24:38,620 --> 00:24:42,386
I have been working in
forensic hospitals and prisons

533
00:24:42,386 --> 00:24:44,653
over the last 20 years.

534
00:24:44,653 --> 00:24:45,853
[dramatic music]

535
00:24:45,893 --> 00:24:50,786
Mackay had had very little
opportunity for support

536
00:24:51,106 --> 00:24:53,846
and there was very little
opportunity for help.

537
00:24:53,916 --> 00:24:58,973
Particularly in his
formative years, growing up,

538
00:24:59,023 --> 00:25:02,220
he is in and out of
psychiatric institutions

539
00:25:02,220 --> 00:25:05,786
on a regular basis
and reform schools

540
00:25:05,786 --> 00:25:09,086
and behavioral institutions.

541
00:25:09,086 --> 00:25:12,053
And what all of these
places have in common

542
00:25:12,053 --> 00:25:14,770
is that they're treating the
symptoms and not the cause.

543
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,120
So they're treating
the behavior,

544
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,286
but they're not asking why
the behavior is happening.

545
00:25:21,236 --> 00:25:23,953
Therefore, he doesn't get
the help that he needs

546
00:25:23,953 --> 00:25:26,753
and his behavior
continues to escalate

547
00:25:26,753 --> 00:25:29,020
as he continues
to hate the world,

548
00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:31,020
carrying his unresolved
trauma with him.

549
00:25:32,253 --> 00:25:34,320
- 26th of July, 1968,

550
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,653
Patrick attacks a 12-year-old
boy in the street,

551
00:25:37,653 --> 00:25:40,386
strangles him and
steals his watch.

552
00:25:40,386 --> 00:25:42,620
He later says that if
he could have done,

553
00:25:42,620 --> 00:25:43,953
he would've killed this boy.

554
00:25:43,953 --> 00:25:46,373
He's taken to
Astrid Remand Center

555
00:25:46,403 --> 00:25:48,420
where he is seen
by a psychiatrist.

556
00:25:48,420 --> 00:25:49,906
This is the first time

557
00:25:49,936 --> 00:25:52,940
anybody actually gives
a proper diagnosis

558
00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:55,786
of what could potentially be
going on in Mackay's head.

559
00:25:55,786 --> 00:25:58,720
He's found to have
an explosive temper

560
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,520
and it's predicted that
without intervention,

561
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,520
he'll go on to become a
cold, psychopathic killer.

562
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,953
[dramatic music]

563
00:26:06,953 --> 00:26:08,453
- That would not be something

564
00:26:08,453 --> 00:26:11,520
that most professionals would
feel comfortable doing now,

565
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,753
it would not be
common even back then.

566
00:26:13,753 --> 00:26:17,640
Normally, we don't diagnose
children with psychopathy

567
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,586
because it's seen as
something that you kind of,

568
00:26:19,586 --> 00:26:22,613
it's hard to, some of the
traits it's hard to define

569
00:26:22,653 --> 00:26:25,053
whether some of this is
something that you will,

570
00:26:25,053 --> 00:26:27,670
as a judgment said
to him, grow out of.

571
00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:30,413
Nowadays, if he was to be
diagnosed with anything,

572
00:26:30,443 --> 00:26:32,453
it would be more likely
to be conduct disorder,

573
00:26:32,453 --> 00:26:34,343
which is often seen
as a precursor.

574
00:26:34,393 --> 00:26:36,446
It's about rebelling
against authority,

575
00:26:36,496 --> 00:26:39,253
acting out in a way that is,
you know, very, very shocking.

576
00:26:39,253 --> 00:26:42,753
- It was a very experimental
time in psychiatry

577
00:26:42,753 --> 00:26:46,520
where people didn't really know
what to do with such people.

578
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,420
So there was a situation
where a lot of criminals

579
00:26:50,420 --> 00:26:53,820
and a lot of psychiatric
patients with criminal behaviors

580
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:55,730
were essentially warehoused.

581
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:56,886
[dramatic music]

582
00:26:56,886 --> 00:26:59,053
- The sad fact was

583
00:26:59,053 --> 00:27:01,720
that he was a violent
disturbed character,

584
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,153
but without mental
illness symptoms.

585
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,886
And that the doctors
and psychiatrists,

586
00:27:08,886 --> 00:27:12,993
with whom he came into contact,
were forced to conclude

587
00:27:13,023 --> 00:27:14,753
there wasn't much they
could do about it.

588
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,920
Therefore, they wanted
him off their hands.

589
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,273
And he was released over
and over, prematurely,

590
00:27:21,886 --> 00:27:24,620
or shuffled from one
institution to another.

591
00:27:24,620 --> 00:27:25,730
[dramatic music]

592
00:27:25,770 --> 00:27:27,586
- Court leaves
treated him badly,

593
00:27:27,626 --> 00:27:29,520
I think they shut
him in cupboards.

594
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,886
He did take a few beatings,
there's no doubt about that,

595
00:27:32,886 --> 00:27:36,286
which didn't enhance his
kind of persona at all.

596
00:27:36,286 --> 00:27:39,796
Just made him worse, just
made him what he was, a bully.

597
00:27:39,836 --> 00:27:43,853
And even in the earlier days
when he was just over 15,

598
00:27:45,053 --> 00:27:49,353
Amy Tap, and she's
a WPC at Dartford,

599
00:27:49,353 --> 00:27:51,416
one day, couldn't get into him,

600
00:27:51,466 --> 00:27:54,953
took four men with a mattress
to get into the cell.

601
00:27:54,953 --> 00:27:57,020
And Amy wrote that day,

602
00:27:57,020 --> 00:28:01,020
"This person will kill
before he is much older."

603
00:28:02,286 --> 00:28:04,120
- He was in Moss Side.

604
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,586
The Mental Health Review Board,

605
00:28:06,586 --> 00:28:10,020
at the urging of
Mackay's mother,

606
00:28:10,020 --> 00:28:12,946
twice let him out

607
00:28:13,753 --> 00:28:16,853
because of his plausibility,
his articulacy,

608
00:28:16,853 --> 00:28:18,993
his seeming normality.

609
00:28:19,786 --> 00:28:22,286
But that's the
key word, seeming.

610
00:28:22,286 --> 00:28:24,420
A psychopath is not normal.

611
00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:25,953
[dramatic music]

612
00:28:25,953 --> 00:28:27,243
- [Mackay Voiceover]
In Moss Side,

613
00:28:27,273 --> 00:28:30,920
I was classified as a
psychopath, but without mania.

614
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,820
I have always believed that
I have not just a problem

615
00:28:33,850 --> 00:28:36,320
of being psychopathic
on its own,

616
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,220
but instead having
psychopathic mania.

617
00:28:39,220 --> 00:28:42,286
This has always been my
personal opinion on the matter

618
00:28:42,286 --> 00:28:45,543
and believed no one to
judge one's mind better,

619
00:28:45,603 --> 00:28:47,986
in most cases, than oneself,

620
00:28:47,986 --> 00:28:51,026
since the mind is such
a complex machine.

621
00:28:52,253 --> 00:28:55,806
- What should have happened,
and probably would nowadays,

622
00:28:55,846 --> 00:28:58,886
would be, he'd have been
picked up much earlier

623
00:28:58,886 --> 00:29:00,596
as being a problem,
you could see

624
00:29:00,636 --> 00:29:03,420
what sort of danger he
might pose in the future

625
00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:05,083
and be dealt with.

626
00:29:05,123 --> 00:29:09,506
And he never was. He went inside, he then
went outside again,

627
00:29:09,576 --> 00:29:12,220
carried on committing
crime, back inside again.

628
00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:16,026
Nobody ever seemed to actually
understand the enormity

629
00:29:16,056 --> 00:29:17,886
of what they were dealing with

630
00:29:17,886 --> 00:29:20,230
and try and keep him
where he should have been,

631
00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:22,020
which was in a
secure mental unit.

632
00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:24,486
[dramatic music]

633
00:29:24,486 --> 00:29:26,673
- [Mackay Voiceover] When I
was eventually discharged,

634
00:29:26,693 --> 00:29:29,416
I can say that despite
the sudden step

635
00:29:29,456 --> 00:29:31,953
to the outside
community as a whole,

636
00:29:31,953 --> 00:29:35,153
I had at the time only
the best intentions

637
00:29:35,173 --> 00:29:37,220
in the living of my life.

638
00:29:37,610 --> 00:29:40,580
But one cannot
unfortunately always foresee

639
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,630
the certain type of stigmas
that can form and come to be

640
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,583
for some people in such an
imperfect world as this.

641
00:29:49,686 --> 00:29:53,886
- He understood himself, he was
the personification of evil.

642
00:29:53,886 --> 00:29:56,346
The big film at the time
that was going around

643
00:29:56,366 --> 00:29:57,490
was, "The Exorcist."

644
00:29:57,530 --> 00:29:59,393
And he absolutely
loved that film.

645
00:29:59,443 --> 00:30:01,320
He became obsessed
with that film.

646
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,186
He collected Nazi memorabilia,
he worshiped Hitler.

647
00:30:05,186 --> 00:30:07,653
And when he talked about Hitler,

648
00:30:07,653 --> 00:30:10,153
he tried to speak
in a German accent.

649
00:30:10,153 --> 00:30:11,620
[dramatic music]

650
00:30:11,620 --> 00:30:17,410
- Mackay had a twisted
devotion towards Nazi ideology.

651
00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:22,420
It seemed, in a bizarre
way, that he found something

652
00:30:22,460 --> 00:30:27,270
that he could form a sense of
belonging and identity with,

653
00:30:27,813 --> 00:30:30,930
and it served to
really reinforce

654
00:30:30,970 --> 00:30:35,620
some really quite extremist
and dark views that he held.

655
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,516
- Mackay went so far
as to fashion himself,

656
00:30:39,546 --> 00:30:42,710
a homemade Nazi
uniform with a armband

657
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:44,853
and he would wear jack boots.

658
00:30:45,203 --> 00:30:49,226
And on occasion he would goose-step
outside in the street.

659
00:30:49,306 --> 00:30:54,843
He also had a huge wooden
eagle and Swastika,

660
00:30:55,076 --> 00:30:57,073
which I've no idea
where he would've

661
00:30:57,093 --> 00:30:58,353
acquired something like that,

662
00:30:58,353 --> 00:31:00,286
which he kept in his bedroom.

663
00:31:00,636 --> 00:31:02,630
It was a shrine to the Nazis.

664
00:31:03,553 --> 00:31:05,956
At one point he'd come up
with a new name for himself,

665
00:31:05,986 --> 00:31:08,720
which was Franklin
Bollvolt the First.

666
00:31:09,060 --> 00:31:10,643
And he thought that
this was a name

667
00:31:10,673 --> 00:31:12,410
that would ring
out like Hitler's,

668
00:31:12,430 --> 00:31:14,386
it would unite the world
under his leadership.

669
00:31:14,386 --> 00:31:16,760
And the thing that he
always boasted about

670
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,330
was that if he was in charge,

671
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:20,913
he would kill all the
useless old people.

672
00:31:21,853 --> 00:31:24,820
- But he brought
into a belief system

673
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:29,386
that was predominantly about
a supreme race of people

674
00:31:29,386 --> 00:31:33,586
and this idea that other
people could be eliminated.

675
00:31:33,586 --> 00:31:35,620
[speaks in foreign language]

676
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:39,186
- He was starting to really
take on this ideology

677
00:31:39,186 --> 00:31:42,410
and think about how he
could make it his own.

678
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,860
And that appeared to excite him

679
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,113
and gave him a sense
of purpose, in a way.

680
00:31:49,453 --> 00:31:51,526
- He's very angry
with the world,

681
00:31:51,546 --> 00:31:54,626
he has many, many
unresolved issues

682
00:31:54,676 --> 00:31:56,916
related to his own traumas.

683
00:31:56,976 --> 00:31:59,773
And when he sees others,
he perceives them

684
00:31:59,823 --> 00:32:01,486
to have what he does not have

685
00:32:01,926 --> 00:32:04,100
and therefore he
seeks to destroy that.

686
00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:07,186
[dramatic music]

687
00:32:07,186 --> 00:32:10,330
- By the age of 21,
Mackay had racked up

688
00:32:10,410 --> 00:32:12,843
at least a dozen convictions
for various offenses

689
00:32:12,883 --> 00:32:16,220
ranging from petty theft
to assault, burglary,

690
00:32:16,270 --> 00:32:17,706
possession of offensive weapon.

691
00:32:17,766 --> 00:32:19,973
Things just seemed to be
getting worse and worse.

692
00:32:20,043 --> 00:32:21,156
And as he got older,

693
00:32:21,176 --> 00:32:23,420
the seriousness of his
convictions just increased.

694
00:32:23,420 --> 00:32:25,286
[dramatic music]

695
00:32:25,286 --> 00:32:27,980
- We didn't get police
cars down this road,

696
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:30,563
so once they started
to sort of come up

697
00:32:30,593 --> 00:32:34,363
and park outside Mackay's house,
on a fairly regular basis,

698
00:32:34,393 --> 00:32:38,090
you would just sort
of be wondering,

699
00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:39,686
"What's he done this time?

700
00:32:40,166 --> 00:32:41,916
"Is he going away?"

701
00:32:43,620 --> 00:32:46,186
Your mind works
overtime, doesn't it,

702
00:32:46,216 --> 00:32:47,666
in those sort of situations.

703
00:32:48,553 --> 00:32:52,450
But say, none of us
imagined in our worst dreams

704
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:54,153
that he was capable of murder.

705
00:32:54,153 --> 00:32:56,200
- [Reporter] The house stands
at the edge of the village.

706
00:32:56,220 --> 00:32:57,870
And at night there
was no one around

707
00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:59,786
to see or hear the murder.

708
00:32:59,786 --> 00:33:04,590
- By then we'd started
inquiries with Marion, the mom,

709
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,720
and she told us
all kinds of lies.

710
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,510
She told us she hadn't seen him,

711
00:33:08,550 --> 00:33:10,286
he hadn't been to the place.

712
00:33:10,326 --> 00:33:13,693
We did find a
number of neighbors

713
00:33:13,753 --> 00:33:17,976
that had actually seen
Mackay come out of the house

714
00:33:18,026 --> 00:33:19,953
and walked toward Shorne.

715
00:33:19,953 --> 00:33:24,786
So it was a fallacy for Marion
to say he'd never been there.

716
00:33:24,786 --> 00:33:29,486
Pat Poulson, a near neighbor,
she witnessed the whole thing.

717
00:33:29,486 --> 00:33:33,316
- I glanced out the window
and saw Patrick walk past.

718
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,160
As we did every time
we saw him thought,

719
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,890
"Oh, what's gonna
happen this time?"

720
00:33:37,610 --> 00:33:40,117
Even though he was walking
away from the house,

721
00:33:40,197 --> 00:33:41,660
that didn't mean he
wouldn't come back.

722
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:44,350
[car engine revving]
Lo and behold, the next day,

723
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,930
there was quite a large
police presence in the street,

724
00:33:48,050 --> 00:33:50,164
knocking on everybody's doors.

725
00:33:50,314 --> 00:33:52,304
And when they knocked
on mine, they just,

726
00:33:52,364 --> 00:33:54,714
they gave a
description of someone

727
00:33:55,024 --> 00:33:56,560
and asked if I'd seen anyone

728
00:33:56,610 --> 00:33:58,860
answering that
description recently.

729
00:33:59,860 --> 00:34:01,424
And straight away I said,

730
00:34:01,474 --> 00:34:04,464
"Well, that description
fits Patrick Mackay

731
00:34:04,504 --> 00:34:05,820
"from next door, but one.

732
00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:08,894
"And yeah, I saw him yesterday."

733
00:34:10,827 --> 00:34:13,894
So they immediately said,
"That's very interesting.

734
00:34:13,894 --> 00:34:15,234
"We'll make a note of it.

735
00:34:15,264 --> 00:34:19,127
"A senior police officer
will be round later "to interview you."

736
00:34:21,027 --> 00:34:23,077
And then that's
when we found out

737
00:34:23,127 --> 00:34:26,860
that he was suspected
of of murder.

738
00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:29,394
[dramatic music]

739
00:34:29,394 --> 00:34:32,027
- When Brown and
Whitlock left us,

740
00:34:32,027 --> 00:34:37,027
they soon established that
he had digs in North London,

741
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,694
on Great North Road.

742
00:34:39,884 --> 00:34:44,360
They went to there and confronted the
bloke called Brian,

743
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,127
who run a hostel really,
as opposed to digs.

744
00:34:47,127 --> 00:34:49,060
Whilst they were there,

745
00:34:49,060 --> 00:34:54,027
Mackay actually rang
the hostel owner, Brian.

746
00:34:54,027 --> 00:34:57,460
Brown and Whitlock were
aware it was Mackay

747
00:34:57,460 --> 00:35:02,394
and just whispered to Brian,
"Don't say we're here,

748
00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:05,260
"just see where he is though."

749
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:07,064
But Mackay got the wind of it.

750
00:35:07,084 --> 00:35:10,560
He just realized that
something was amiss.

751
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,194
And the only clue they
had where he could be

752
00:35:13,194 --> 00:35:16,760
was that he went with
a lad called Cowdrey,

753
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:19,460
and that was one of
his best friends.

754
00:35:19,460 --> 00:35:22,827
- Mackay was hanging
out on some waste ground

755
00:35:22,827 --> 00:35:24,150
in South London,

756
00:35:24,220 --> 00:35:28,194
and he met a couple of young
boys, the Cowdrey brothers.

757
00:35:28,194 --> 00:35:30,927
This friendship
developed somehow.

758
00:35:30,927 --> 00:35:33,000
Mackay was invited to spend time

759
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:35,860
at the Cowdrey
house in Stockwell.

760
00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:39,460
The parents of the family,
Bert and Vi Cowdrey,

761
00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:41,827
who Mackay began
calling mom and dad.

762
00:35:41,827 --> 00:35:43,260
[gentle music]

763
00:35:43,260 --> 00:35:46,294
- Brown and Whitlock
went and knocked the door

764
00:35:46,294 --> 00:35:49,570
of the first Cowdrey
family that they found,

765
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,134
Mackay was standing
in the doorway.

766
00:35:53,227 --> 00:35:55,810
He was actually
standing in the hallway.

767
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,384
So, of course they knew him
well and they grabbed him

768
00:36:00,414 --> 00:36:03,660
and I think they took him back
to the local police station.

769
00:36:03,660 --> 00:36:06,024
But even on the way back
to the police station,

770
00:36:06,054 --> 00:36:09,094
they'd cautioned him and
he had coughed the job.

771
00:36:09,094 --> 00:36:11,227
Mackay had admitted the murder.

772
00:36:11,227 --> 00:36:14,260
[dramatic music]

773
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,760
When we got him back into Kent,

774
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,230
this was taken at
Northfleet Police Station.

775
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:21,927
And I did know him
as a younger boy,

776
00:36:21,927 --> 00:36:23,764
but this is how I remembered him

777
00:36:23,804 --> 00:36:26,527
when he first come into
custody for the Crean murder.

778
00:36:26,527 --> 00:36:30,327
I'll never forget that face,
I'll never forget that picture

779
00:36:30,327 --> 00:36:33,494
because to me that was Patrick.

780
00:36:33,494 --> 00:36:36,860
Might not know him now,
but that was Patrick then,

781
00:36:36,860 --> 00:36:39,294
you know, could go
wild in the eyes.

782
00:36:39,294 --> 00:36:42,127
[dramatic music]

783
00:36:46,427 --> 00:36:47,814
- [Mackay Voiceover]
I went to Gravesend

784
00:36:47,864 --> 00:36:50,860
by train last Friday afternoon,

785
00:36:50,860 --> 00:36:54,994
21st of March, 1975.

786
00:36:54,994 --> 00:36:57,460
I won a chicken in a
raffle and took it home

787
00:36:57,460 --> 00:36:59,527
for my mother to cook for me.

788
00:36:59,527 --> 00:37:02,194
- That was not true
and he admitted later,

789
00:37:02,194 --> 00:37:03,994
in an ancillary statement,

790
00:37:03,994 --> 00:37:06,860
that he had stolen it
from a local store.

791
00:37:06,860 --> 00:37:08,427
- [Mackay Voiceover] I
talked with my mother,

792
00:37:08,507 --> 00:37:12,294
but I was only at home
for about 15 minutes.

793
00:37:12,294 --> 00:37:14,517
I'm not at all sure
about the times,

794
00:37:14,567 --> 00:37:18,827
but I left the house
about half past four.

795
00:37:18,827 --> 00:37:21,994
I walked to Father
Crean's house at Shorne.

796
00:37:21,994 --> 00:37:24,460
From my own house, I
went along Thong Lane

797
00:37:24,460 --> 00:37:28,127
to a country lane that
branches off from Thong Lane.

798
00:37:28,127 --> 00:37:31,660
I walked all along that lane
past the school at Shorne,

799
00:37:31,660 --> 00:37:35,627
through Shorne Village,
past the Rose and Crown

800
00:37:35,627 --> 00:37:37,260
to Father Crean's house.

801
00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:38,927
[dramatic music]

802
00:37:38,927 --> 00:37:42,127
- This is the dangerous
part about him.

803
00:37:42,127 --> 00:37:44,160
Patrick could be quite affable.

804
00:37:45,327 --> 00:37:46,827
Actually, I'm gonna
say something now,

805
00:37:46,827 --> 00:37:48,594
I never thought I'd say to you,

806
00:37:48,594 --> 00:37:50,270
he could be quite likable.

807
00:37:50,820 --> 00:37:54,960
Patrick could be calm,
Patrick could be pleasant,

808
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,727
Patrick got upset,
Patrick became aggressive.

809
00:37:58,727 --> 00:37:59,960
[dramatic music]

810
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,160
- [Mackay Voiceover]
When I got there,

811
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,127
I saw the front door
was just slightly ajar,

812
00:38:04,157 --> 00:38:06,560
just enough to put a finger in.

813
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,430
I saw his car there
and I saw smoke

814
00:38:09,470 --> 00:38:11,894
from a bonfire in the
back of the house,

815
00:38:11,894 --> 00:38:14,360
so I knew that
Father Crean was in.

816
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,550
I pushed the door open and a
little dog brushed past my leg

817
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,277
and ran out of the door.

818
00:38:20,794 --> 00:38:22,970
I went into the
hall of the house

819
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,677
and called Mr.
Crean, are you there?

820
00:38:27,137 --> 00:38:28,590
There was no reply.

821
00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:29,960
[dramatic music]

822
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,990
After about five minutes,
I heard the front door open

823
00:38:34,020 --> 00:38:36,760
and then saw Mr. Crean
come into the hall.

824
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,960
He didn't seem to see me.

825
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,460
I walked up to him.

826
00:38:40,460 --> 00:38:44,060
And when I was about an
arm's length away, I said,

827
00:38:44,060 --> 00:38:47,727
"Mr. Crean, it's
me, Patrick Mackay."

828
00:38:47,727 --> 00:38:49,527
He had his back to me.

829
00:38:49,527 --> 00:38:53,660
He turned around and
he shouted, "Oh God,

830
00:38:53,660 --> 00:38:56,600
"I wasn't expecting
to see you here."

831
00:38:58,127 --> 00:39:02,227
- I think on the first approach,

832
00:39:02,227 --> 00:39:07,227
Crean was worried sick to see
him there at his premises.

833
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,394
When he got worried

834
00:39:09,394 --> 00:39:11,927
and when he started
getting agitated himself,

835
00:39:11,927 --> 00:39:16,094
Crean, Father Crean,
Mackay got agitated.

836
00:39:16,094 --> 00:39:18,627
And as Mackay got more agitated,

837
00:39:18,627 --> 00:39:21,427
then of course things
went totally wrong.

838
00:39:21,427 --> 00:39:22,747
[dramatic music]

839
00:39:22,787 --> 00:39:25,354
- [Mackay Voiceover] I said,
I've come to talk things over

840
00:39:25,404 --> 00:39:27,494
about the money I owe you.

841
00:39:27,494 --> 00:39:29,344
He seemed to panic a bit

842
00:39:29,394 --> 00:39:31,727
and started to run
out of the house.

843
00:39:31,727 --> 00:39:34,594
This seemed to upset me a bit.

844
00:39:34,594 --> 00:39:37,507
- And by then there was
a struggle taking place

845
00:39:37,557 --> 00:39:39,314
between him and Mackay.

846
00:39:39,334 --> 00:39:41,034
But you can just
see the door post,

847
00:39:41,074 --> 00:39:42,727
on the right hand
side of this picture.

848
00:39:42,727 --> 00:39:45,084
And he pushed him
through the door there,

849
00:39:45,154 --> 00:39:49,680
which then propelled the vicar
into the bath straight away,

850
00:39:49,710 --> 00:39:50,907
into a dry bath.

851
00:39:50,967 --> 00:39:53,250
Father Crean was
never gonna win that.

852
00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:55,960
Mackay had the strength
of probably six men

853
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,860
when he really got worked up.

854
00:39:57,860 --> 00:40:01,020
And on this occasion,
I would suspect

855
00:40:01,070 --> 00:40:03,460
that's exactly what
happened to Crean.

856
00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:06,394
- [Mackay Voiceover] He then
started to annoy me even more

857
00:40:06,394 --> 00:40:09,650
and I kept striking at
his nose with my arm

858
00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:11,560
and the side of my hand.

859
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,697
I then pulled out my
knife from my coat pocket

860
00:40:14,727 --> 00:40:17,460
and repeatedly plunged
it into his neck.

861
00:40:17,460 --> 00:40:19,894
I then got a little
more excitable

862
00:40:19,894 --> 00:40:22,794
and stuck it into
the side of his head

863
00:40:22,794 --> 00:40:26,460
and then tried to plunge it
into the top of his head.

864
00:40:26,460 --> 00:40:28,694
This bent the knife.

865
00:40:28,694 --> 00:40:30,444
- And this was a dagger.

866
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,764
You've got to do something

867
00:40:32,784 --> 00:40:34,827
to bend a dagger in
half in someone's skull.

868
00:40:34,827 --> 00:40:36,727
[dramatic music]

869
00:40:36,727 --> 00:40:37,727
- [Mackay Voiceover] He had been

870
00:40:37,747 --> 00:40:40,027
in the sitting up
position with the knife,

871
00:40:40,027 --> 00:40:42,814
but when I first
hit him with the ax,

872
00:40:42,874 --> 00:40:44,887
he sank down into the bath.

873
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,084
I then repeatedly got
increasingly more annoyed

874
00:40:49,134 --> 00:40:51,827
and lashed at him with the ax.

875
00:40:51,827 --> 00:40:55,224
All this seemed to
happen very fast.

876
00:40:56,294 --> 00:41:00,034
- Every strike he delivers,
and as the blood flows more,

877
00:41:00,064 --> 00:41:02,704
Mackay becomes more
and more excited.

878
00:41:02,774 --> 00:41:07,000
He is engaged in what is
called thrill-seeking behavior,

879
00:41:07,050 --> 00:41:09,494
which is a typical
trait of psychopathy.

880
00:41:09,494 --> 00:41:11,867
Psychopaths seek thrills.

881
00:41:11,907 --> 00:41:13,830
And as they seek more thrills,

882
00:41:13,860 --> 00:41:15,660
the thrills become more extreme.

883
00:41:15,660 --> 00:41:17,127
[dramatic music]

884
00:41:17,127 --> 00:41:19,094
- [Mackay Voiceover] I
threw the ax to the floor,

885
00:41:19,094 --> 00:41:21,537
ripped the plug
from the wash basin

886
00:41:21,577 --> 00:41:25,894
and rammed it into the bath,
then turned on the taps.

887
00:41:25,894 --> 00:41:28,500
- He said, "There was
nothing more lovely

888
00:41:28,540 --> 00:41:32,344
"than dunking him up and down
in the water in that bath,

889
00:41:32,404 --> 00:41:35,580
"still in his top coat,
in his wellingtons,

890
00:41:35,620 --> 00:41:37,240
"dressed as he would
be if he went out

891
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:38,504
"for a walk with the dog."

892
00:41:38,554 --> 00:41:41,927
Mackay thought that was
quite a wonderful scene.

893
00:41:42,017 --> 00:41:44,727
[dramatic music]

894
00:41:44,727 --> 00:41:48,780
- This was the act of a
seriously crazy killer.

895
00:41:49,860 --> 00:41:53,460
But chopping somebody up
with an ax, blood everywhere,

896
00:41:53,460 --> 00:41:57,760
sticking him in the
bath, running the tap,

897
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,394
sitting there
watching the man die,

898
00:42:01,394 --> 00:42:06,824
this was the extremity
of Mackay's psychopathy.

899
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,767
This was the most
horrible of crimes.

900
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,064
- [Mackay Voiceover] Then
I stayed in the bathroom

901
00:42:13,104 --> 00:42:14,600
for about an hour.

902
00:42:14,670 --> 00:42:17,190
I was just watching him sinking

903
00:42:17,230 --> 00:42:18,857
and floating about in the bath.

904
00:42:19,627 --> 00:42:21,194
And I then walked
out of the house

905
00:42:21,194 --> 00:42:23,677
and walked around to
the back of his house

906
00:42:23,707 --> 00:42:26,697
picking up bits and pieces
of cinders from the fire

907
00:42:26,747 --> 00:42:30,674
and bits of soil, just mucking
about, doodling in a sense.

908
00:42:31,594 --> 00:42:35,077
Then I went back in the
house and into the bathroom

909
00:42:35,147 --> 00:42:38,260
and stayed there for about
a quarter of an hour.

910
00:42:38,260 --> 00:42:41,387
I then thought of the
chicken at my mother's home

911
00:42:41,507 --> 00:42:43,850
and walked out of
his house altogether.

912
00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:47,977
- We were about to go

913
00:42:48,017 --> 00:42:51,194
to a local magistrate's
court on remands.

914
00:42:51,194 --> 00:42:56,440
He heard that his mother
would be in court to see him,

915
00:42:57,327 --> 00:43:00,284
and I could see he
was getting more wild

916
00:43:00,304 --> 00:43:02,794
about his mom's
appearance at court

917
00:43:03,264 --> 00:43:05,620
and more aggravated about it.

918
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:07,860
And then he said, "Would
you do my shoes up?"

919
00:43:07,980 --> 00:43:09,950
When you look at the
eyes of a killer,

920
00:43:10,010 --> 00:43:11,837
look at them and you'll know

921
00:43:11,877 --> 00:43:13,730
you're looking at
the eyes of a killer.

922
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:16,827
And when Patrick looked at
me, I was quite concerned.

923
00:43:16,827 --> 00:43:19,194
And I looked at his
eyes and I said,

924
00:43:19,724 --> 00:43:21,494
do your own fucking shoes up.

925
00:43:21,574 --> 00:43:22,850
[dramatic music]

926
00:43:22,940 --> 00:43:24,560
- [Mackay Voiceover] The
only thing I want to add

927
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:29,340
is it didn't seem to trouble
me too much, what I had done,

928
00:43:29,370 --> 00:43:31,194
on hearing it in the paper.

929
00:43:31,664 --> 00:43:34,997
- As a crime reporter, a
murder is your top crime,

930
00:43:35,037 --> 00:43:38,397
of course, I was excited,
it was a fascinating murder.

931
00:43:38,437 --> 00:43:39,524
The restrictions at the time

932
00:43:39,564 --> 00:43:41,194
were even greater
than they are now.

933
00:43:41,194 --> 00:43:44,044
So broadly once he was charged,

934
00:43:44,074 --> 00:43:47,797
you can't use any
details in the newspaper

935
00:43:47,927 --> 00:43:49,607
about what has happened.

936
00:43:49,657 --> 00:43:53,794
So apart from saying name, age,
address, that kind of thing,

937
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,313
there was very
little you could do.

938
00:43:55,313 --> 00:43:57,713
So for the next few
months after that,

939
00:43:57,713 --> 00:44:00,513
I could say almost nothing
about what had happened.

940
00:44:00,513 --> 00:44:02,013
But then it did
give you a chance

941
00:44:02,013 --> 00:44:03,713
to actually investigate
the whole thing properly.

942
00:44:03,713 --> 00:44:06,646
So the next few months
was spent largely

943
00:44:06,646 --> 00:44:08,546
on looking at the various things

944
00:44:08,546 --> 00:44:10,546
that Patrick Mackay had done,

945
00:44:10,546 --> 00:44:13,146
trying to piece
together his life

946
00:44:13,146 --> 00:44:16,680
and also piecing together the
various crimes he'd committed

947
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,513
over the previous few years.

948
00:44:18,513 --> 00:44:21,246
Excitement turned
into some dread

949
00:44:21,296 --> 00:44:22,913
about what I might
find out next.

950
00:44:22,913 --> 00:44:28,553
And the more I delved into
the personality of Patrick,

951
00:44:29,046 --> 00:44:32,113
the more I found that
really disturbing.

952
00:44:32,113 --> 00:44:34,946
[dramatic music]

953
00:44:37,013 --> 00:44:38,613
- My name is David Crinnion.

954
00:44:38,613 --> 00:44:42,073
In 1975, I was a
Detective Constable

955
00:44:42,093 --> 00:44:43,580
at Gerald Road Police Station,

956
00:44:43,580 --> 00:44:47,746
dealing with all the day-to-day
crimes that were reported,

957
00:44:47,746 --> 00:44:50,346
burglaries, assaults, robberies.

958
00:44:50,346 --> 00:44:53,146
Gerald Road Division
was basically Belgravia,

959
00:44:53,146 --> 00:44:55,313
parts of Victoria
and Victoria Station

960
00:44:55,313 --> 00:44:57,313
creeping across towards Chelsea.

961
00:44:57,313 --> 00:45:00,380
A very high net worth
area, generally speaking.

962
00:45:00,380 --> 00:45:04,080
Female victims were being
attacked on the street.

963
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,346
And also the subject

964
00:45:05,346 --> 00:45:07,083
of what are known as
artifice burglaries,

965
00:45:07,113 --> 00:45:10,846
whereby people talk their
way into people's houses,

966
00:45:10,846 --> 00:45:12,860
either by saying, oh,
they've heard a noise,

967
00:45:12,890 --> 00:45:14,986
or they've seen water running,

968
00:45:15,076 --> 00:45:17,980
or sometimes just
by basic threats.

969
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,246
Once in there they steal
what they can and leave.

970
00:45:22,246 --> 00:45:24,413
And they weren't just
happening at Gerald Road,

971
00:45:24,413 --> 00:45:25,936
they were happening
at Rochester Road,

972
00:45:25,966 --> 00:45:27,513
which was the adjacent division,

973
00:45:27,513 --> 00:45:29,213
they were happening in Chelsea,

974
00:45:29,213 --> 00:45:30,646
they were happening in Fulham,

975
00:45:30,646 --> 00:45:33,180
they were happening
all over the place.

976
00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:35,810
- I'm Dr. Nell Darby and
I'm a crime historian

977
00:45:35,830 --> 00:45:39,110
specializing in looking
at crime reportage.

978
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:41,136
When you think of the 1970s,

979
00:45:41,176 --> 00:45:43,816
you do think about kind
of economic struggles,

980
00:45:43,836 --> 00:45:46,926
political crises,
three day week.

981
00:45:46,986 --> 00:45:49,476
There's problems in terms
of high unemployment

982
00:45:49,536 --> 00:45:52,986
and thus political
dissatisfaction, alienation,

983
00:45:53,006 --> 00:45:54,080
that kind of thing.

984
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:55,540
When you've got
high unemployment,

985
00:45:55,590 --> 00:45:57,473
you've got poverty
related issues.

986
00:45:57,513 --> 00:45:59,900
So if you are struggling
to feed your family

987
00:45:59,930 --> 00:46:03,110
to maintain a household,
it's more likely then

988
00:46:03,150 --> 00:46:04,760
that you are going to
commit petty crime,

989
00:46:04,780 --> 00:46:06,166
just to kind of get by.

990
00:46:07,036 --> 00:46:09,780
- Well, you have to understand
that London's a big place,

991
00:46:09,780 --> 00:46:12,246
eight, 10, 12 million
people living there.

992
00:46:12,246 --> 00:46:13,946
A lot of people moving about.

993
00:46:13,946 --> 00:46:16,626
It's 50 years ago that
we're talking about now.

994
00:46:16,716 --> 00:46:19,380
There wasn't the CCTV
that there is now.

995
00:46:19,380 --> 00:46:22,353
There weren't the other
methods of identification.

996
00:46:22,453 --> 00:46:24,040
It was much more difficult then

997
00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:27,150
to pick an individual
out of what was

998
00:46:27,190 --> 00:46:29,000
a fairly transient population,

999
00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:32,206
particularly when you have a
number of underground stations

1000
00:46:32,226 --> 00:46:34,110
and Victoria
Station underground.

1001
00:46:35,013 --> 00:46:37,513
How many people come
through there every day?

1002
00:46:37,513 --> 00:46:38,780
It's difficult.

1003
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:40,543
There was a certain theme

1004
00:46:40,583 --> 00:46:43,700
running through the
robberies and the burglaries,

1005
00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:46,196
that the individual
responsible for them

1006
00:46:46,246 --> 00:46:49,436
had said to the victim,
"You better hurry up

1007
00:46:49,546 --> 00:46:52,013
"because I have to be back
in Springfield Hospital."

1008
00:46:52,013 --> 00:46:55,413
Which is a mental hospital
in Southwest London

1009
00:46:55,413 --> 00:46:57,813
by a specified time.

1010
00:46:57,813 --> 00:47:00,316
And of course anybody
would be able to say,

1011
00:47:00,356 --> 00:47:02,123
"Well, that's clearly a link,

1012
00:47:02,153 --> 00:47:03,943
"that's clearly
the same person."

1013
00:47:03,983 --> 00:47:06,380
[dramatic music]

1014
00:47:06,380 --> 00:47:09,646
- We all know that
Chelsea and Kensington

1015
00:47:09,646 --> 00:47:11,230
and wealthy parts of London,

1016
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:13,480
the properties are
very expensive.

1017
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,213
We also know that there's a
large number of wealthy widows

1018
00:47:17,273 --> 00:47:19,280
living in that part of London.

1019
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:23,653
And Mackay's career
of mugging and robbery

1020
00:47:24,313 --> 00:47:28,426
was directed against
these fairly,

1021
00:47:28,466 --> 00:47:30,846
often quite rich, ladies

1022
00:47:30,846 --> 00:47:32,576
who are of a certain age,

1023
00:47:33,486 --> 00:47:38,046
whom in many cases he'd
sweet talked and befriended.

1024
00:47:38,046 --> 00:47:39,346
[car engine revving]

1025
00:47:39,346 --> 00:47:40,946
[dramatic music]

1026
00:47:40,946 --> 00:47:43,890
- Patrick Mackay was actually
quite a charming individual.

1027
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,813
He seemed to have an ability

1028
00:47:45,863 --> 00:47:49,680
to get the trust of these
elderly ladies fairly quickly.

1029
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,213
He was used to tall pubs,

1030
00:47:51,213 --> 00:47:52,646
and meet them in pubs,

1031
00:47:52,646 --> 00:47:54,913
he'd buy them a Guinness
or something like that,

1032
00:47:54,913 --> 00:47:56,450
offer to walk them home.

1033
00:47:56,490 --> 00:47:59,000
So at that point,
he must have been

1034
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,013
quite a believable character.

1035
00:48:01,013 --> 00:48:04,280
- Mackay deliberately
chooses victims

1036
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,506
that are essentially
defenseless.

1037
00:48:07,586 --> 00:48:10,403
They're not going to be
physically as strong as him.

1038
00:48:10,443 --> 00:48:12,680
[dramatic music]

1039
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,230
- Throughout his life,
he's committing violence

1040
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,320
on people more
vulnerable than him.

1041
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,540
So as a youngster, he's committing
violence on young boys,

1042
00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:25,280
on his mother because
she's weaker than him.

1043
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,053
So he's looking for people

1044
00:48:27,093 --> 00:48:30,400
that he knows he's stronger
than, that he can overpower.

1045
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:32,646
There's not gonna be
too much of a fight.

1046
00:48:32,646 --> 00:48:34,846
[dramatic music]

1047
00:48:34,846 --> 00:48:36,813
- He would follow them home,

1048
00:48:36,813 --> 00:48:39,346
wait until they've got
their key in the lock,

1049
00:48:39,656 --> 00:48:43,016
and he would either barge
past as they turn the key

1050
00:48:43,066 --> 00:48:45,476
or he would come up
with some kind of ruse

1051
00:48:45,516 --> 00:48:46,846
to get into the property.

1052
00:48:47,216 --> 00:48:51,900
Some of these robberies were
not particularly violent,

1053
00:48:51,930 --> 00:48:56,080
he would sometimes behave
incredibly politely.

1054
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,236
On other occasions he
would, without warning,

1055
00:48:59,296 --> 00:49:01,913
just wrap his hands
around somebody's throat

1056
00:49:01,973 --> 00:49:03,636
and start strangling them.

1057
00:49:03,676 --> 00:49:07,210
It's blind luck that he
didn't kill more people,

1058
00:49:07,310 --> 00:49:08,553
during this period.

1059
00:49:08,643 --> 00:49:10,213
[typewriter keys clacking]

1060
00:49:10,213 --> 00:49:11,580
[dramatic music]

1061
00:49:11,580 --> 00:49:13,013
[typewriter keys clacking]

1062
00:49:13,013 --> 00:49:14,546
[dramatic music]

1063
00:49:14,546 --> 00:49:17,020
- Police were called to an
address in Lowndes Square

1064
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,336
in the early evening in March,

1065
00:49:19,426 --> 00:49:21,856
by Adele Price granddaughter

1066
00:49:21,896 --> 00:49:23,946
who'd found her
grandmother dead.

1067
00:49:23,946 --> 00:49:26,246
[dramatic music]

1068
00:49:26,246 --> 00:49:28,846
It must be trauma, it's
not gonna be something

1069
00:49:28,846 --> 00:49:31,013
you're ever gonna
be able to forget.

1070
00:49:31,013 --> 00:49:32,496
Police attended,

1071
00:49:32,536 --> 00:49:34,380
it was a uniform police
officer to begin with,

1072
00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:36,213
and then I went along there

1073
00:49:36,243 --> 00:49:39,713
with one of the sergeants,
I think, or the DI.

1074
00:49:40,223 --> 00:49:44,266
Mrs. Price was lying on
her bed, clearly dead,

1075
00:49:44,980 --> 00:49:46,780
marks on her neck.

1076
00:49:46,780 --> 00:49:50,660
There was a post-mortem
examination and it was established

1077
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:54,813
that she had been
murdered, been strangled.

1078
00:49:54,813 --> 00:49:56,796
And a squad was formed

1079
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,874
under Detective
Superintendent John Bland.

1080
00:49:59,874 --> 00:50:02,754
And we very quickly, or
Mr. Bland, very quickly

1081
00:50:02,804 --> 00:50:07,574
connected this murder to a
murder about a year previously

1082
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:09,594
in Cheyne Walk in Chelsea.

1083
00:50:10,174 --> 00:50:15,594
And we decided to link the
two murders there and then.

1084
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,007
[typewriter keys clacking]

1085
00:50:18,007 --> 00:50:20,574
[dramatic music]

1086
00:50:20,574 --> 00:50:24,974
- Isabella Griffiths was the
87-year-old widow of a surgeon.

1087
00:50:24,974 --> 00:50:28,674
She lived in one of London's
most desirable areas,

1088
00:50:28,674 --> 00:50:31,084
in Cheyne Walk on
Chelsea Embankment.

1089
00:50:31,114 --> 00:50:33,840
She was a member of the
Chelsea Gardener's Guild.

1090
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,907
She's a very well known,
recognizable figure in the area.

1091
00:50:38,750 --> 00:50:42,040
Isabella had the misfortune
of meeting Mackay

1092
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:46,840
on one of her walks around
the West End, in early 1974.

1093
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,374
Mackay offered to carry her
shopping back to the house.

1094
00:50:50,374 --> 00:50:53,774
She invited him in for a
cup of tea and a biscuit.

1095
00:50:53,774 --> 00:50:55,367
They got on really
well and she said,

1096
00:50:55,427 --> 00:50:57,217
"Well, look, I always
need chores doing,

1097
00:50:57,247 --> 00:50:58,367
"why don't you come back again?"

1098
00:50:58,407 --> 00:50:59,407
Which he did.

1099
00:51:00,940 --> 00:51:03,847
Over the next few weeks,
he came back a few times

1100
00:51:03,867 --> 00:51:06,207
and he would run errands,
mainly going to the shops

1101
00:51:06,207 --> 00:51:10,074
to buy copious
amounts of cat food

1102
00:51:10,074 --> 00:51:13,040
for the various cats that
she kept in the property.

1103
00:51:14,740 --> 00:51:17,807
On the 14th of February,
Patrick Mackay,

1104
00:51:17,807 --> 00:51:20,507
absconded from
Tooting Bec Hospital.

1105
00:51:20,507 --> 00:51:23,507
He'd been admitted a
couple of days previously

1106
00:51:23,507 --> 00:51:25,674
after supposedly
trying to kill himself

1107
00:51:25,694 --> 00:51:27,707
at Stockwell Tube Station.

1108
00:51:27,707 --> 00:51:30,440
Wandering through London,
he made the decision

1109
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,934
to walk to Isabella's
house at Cheyne Walk.

1110
00:51:34,807 --> 00:51:38,000
Unfortunately, Isabella's
body wasn't discovered

1111
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,907
for a further 12 days.

1112
00:51:39,907 --> 00:51:43,217
She had a friend who
would often walk past

1113
00:51:43,237 --> 00:51:46,244
and she described how
she always kept an eye

1114
00:51:46,274 --> 00:51:48,240
on her friend's
milk bottle levels

1115
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:49,674
to make sure they're okay.

1116
00:51:49,674 --> 00:51:50,907
[dramatic music]

1117
00:51:50,907 --> 00:51:52,940
- Neighbors were
somewhat concerned,

1118
00:51:52,940 --> 00:51:55,940
called police, police attended,

1119
00:51:55,940 --> 00:51:58,864
and she was found
dead in the house,

1120
00:51:58,914 --> 00:52:01,640
and clearly she'd been
dead for some little time.

1121
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,040
[dramatic music]

1122
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,574
Unfortunately and
extremely embarrassingly,

1123
00:52:05,604 --> 00:52:07,874
you'd have to say, the
stab wound or killed her

1124
00:52:07,884 --> 00:52:10,967
wasn't discovered until
she was at the mortuary.

1125
00:52:12,117 --> 00:52:15,707
When they undid the blanket
in which she was wrapped.

1126
00:52:15,707 --> 00:52:17,180
- The police immediately knew

1127
00:52:17,210 --> 00:52:19,330
that this was a
highly unusual murder

1128
00:52:19,370 --> 00:52:22,440
and whoever had done it needed
to be found immediately.

1129
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,274
[dramatic music]

1130
00:52:27,807 --> 00:52:29,057
- Good evening.

1131
00:52:29,097 --> 00:52:31,974
"Police One Five" this week
moves out of his usual office

1132
00:52:31,974 --> 00:52:34,070
and into an incident room

1133
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:36,607
where a full scale murder
inquiry is underway.

1134
00:52:36,607 --> 00:52:38,140
The murder of this lady,

1135
00:52:38,140 --> 00:52:41,540
89-year-old widow,
Mrs. Adele Price.

1136
00:52:41,540 --> 00:52:42,887
And with your help
we've established,

1137
00:52:42,907 --> 00:52:44,540
she was last seen here,

1138
00:52:44,540 --> 00:52:46,857
on the corner of Knightsbridge
and Brompton Road

1139
00:52:46,887 --> 00:52:50,007
outside the Scotch House
at about five to five.

1140
00:52:50,007 --> 00:52:52,474
The next time she
was seen was here,

1141
00:52:52,474 --> 00:52:56,307
at her flat in Lowndes Square,
when her body was found,

1142
00:52:56,307 --> 00:52:57,774
she'd been murdered.

1143
00:52:57,774 --> 00:53:00,240
[dramatic music]

1144
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:02,107
- By the time of
Adele Price's death,

1145
00:53:02,107 --> 00:53:04,907
there was a squad of detectives

1146
00:53:04,907 --> 00:53:07,640
looking, not just at
the killing of Isabella,

1147
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:10,530
but a string of very
similar robberies

1148
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,640
of old ladies
across the West End.

1149
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,634
It didn't take a rocket
scientist to realize

1150
00:53:16,654 --> 00:53:19,187
that whoever had
killed these two women

1151
00:53:19,217 --> 00:53:21,090
was probably one
and the same man.

1152
00:53:22,140 --> 00:53:25,460
- Mr. Bland decided that
the robberies and burglaries

1153
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,127
and artifice burglaries
that has happened

1154
00:53:28,577 --> 00:53:31,540
were also gonna form part
of the investigation.

1155
00:53:31,540 --> 00:53:35,640
And there were overall
40 or 50, I think.

1156
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,507
Every offense of this type

1157
00:53:37,507 --> 00:53:39,727
received a visit from an
investigative officer.

1158
00:53:39,747 --> 00:53:41,780
And I went to
hundreds, I suppose,

1159
00:53:41,850 --> 00:53:43,474
during the course of my career.

1160
00:53:43,474 --> 00:53:45,840
And we sat down and we
spoke to the victim,

1161
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,240
took whatever information
they could provide us,

1162
00:53:49,674 --> 00:53:53,374
worked out whatever clues
there might or might not be,

1163
00:53:53,374 --> 00:53:56,254
and crucially had a
scenes of crime officer

1164
00:53:56,294 --> 00:53:57,767
attend every one.

1165
00:53:58,874 --> 00:54:01,034
Sometimes they got something,
sometimes they didn't.

1166
00:54:01,074 --> 00:54:02,314
But that's the
nature of the game,

1167
00:54:02,334 --> 00:54:04,940
you don't always
get what you want.

1168
00:54:04,940 --> 00:54:06,974
But we did get
some fingerprints.

1169
00:54:06,974 --> 00:54:09,940
- On February 15th, 1975,

1170
00:54:09,940 --> 00:54:13,574
Patrick Mackay commits one
of his doorstep robberies,

1171
00:54:13,944 --> 00:54:15,614
forces his way into the home

1172
00:54:15,634 --> 00:54:17,807
of an elderly woman
called Margaret Diver.

1173
00:54:17,807 --> 00:54:20,640
[dramatic music]

1174
00:54:21,874 --> 00:54:23,364
- He'd come up behind her

1175
00:54:23,394 --> 00:54:26,174
as she was getting into
her flat in Chelsea.

1176
00:54:26,174 --> 00:54:29,574
He then grabbed her, put
his hands over her mouth,

1177
00:54:29,604 --> 00:54:32,534
pushed her from room to
room inside her flat,

1178
00:54:32,574 --> 00:54:34,707
asked her to make
him a cup of tea.

1179
00:54:34,707 --> 00:54:37,074
- She's very lucky to
escape with her life,

1180
00:54:37,074 --> 00:54:40,014
and it's a bizarre encounter

1181
00:54:40,044 --> 00:54:42,547
where they actually sit
at the kitchen table

1182
00:54:42,577 --> 00:54:46,174
for more than an hour,
talking, drinking tea.

1183
00:54:46,174 --> 00:54:48,707
And Mackay sits
there the whole time,

1184
00:54:48,707 --> 00:54:51,107
stirring his tea with
a silver teaspoon,

1185
00:54:51,107 --> 00:54:53,674
which he then just casually
leaves on the table.

1186
00:54:53,674 --> 00:54:56,990
- In those days,
fingerprint examination

1187
00:54:57,010 --> 00:54:59,574
was done by a guy with
a magnifying glass,

1188
00:54:59,904 --> 00:55:02,990
looking at a print
lifted, using black powder

1189
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,324
and sellotape from
whatever surface it was.

1190
00:55:05,384 --> 00:55:09,207
A very, very time consuming
and expensive process.

1191
00:55:09,207 --> 00:55:13,007
And we got an ident on
Patrick David Mackay,

1192
00:55:13,007 --> 00:55:16,440
who at that time was already
in custody for a murder.

1193
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,274
[dramatic music]

1194
00:55:20,874 --> 00:55:25,807
- Unbeknown to us, the Mets
have had a string of murders

1195
00:55:25,807 --> 00:55:27,574
and serious robberies.

1196
00:55:27,934 --> 00:55:31,040
Down come the Met,
an amazing scene,

1197
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,947
three detectives, including
a man called Crinnion,

1198
00:55:34,977 --> 00:55:36,550
I think it was,

1199
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,847
and they went right
through like that,

1200
00:55:39,037 --> 00:55:42,177
picking up items and
saying, "That's that murder,

1201
00:55:42,257 --> 00:55:44,500
"that's that murder,
that's that robbery."

1202
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:46,440
- We were able to
identify some of them.

1203
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,487
In fact, we were able
to identify some of them

1204
00:55:48,517 --> 00:55:51,290
coming from a robbery
that I'd dealt with,

1205
00:55:51,890 --> 00:55:54,630
and we were able to restore
them to the victims.

1206
00:55:55,547 --> 00:55:58,587
- The Met officers just knew,

1207
00:55:58,657 --> 00:56:02,270
the minute they
saw those artifacts

1208
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,367
and the items on the
table at Northfleet,

1209
00:56:05,637 --> 00:56:08,267
they knew they had
cleared up their series

1210
00:56:08,317 --> 00:56:10,707
of murders and
serious robberies.

1211
00:56:11,137 --> 00:56:12,767
- We arranged to go
down to see them,

1212
00:56:12,827 --> 00:56:14,744
on the Wednesday
when he's at court,

1213
00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:17,617
Gravesham Magistrate's Court

1214
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:19,673
and we get him remanded
into our custody,

1215
00:56:19,673 --> 00:56:21,473
rather than going back to jail.

1216
00:56:21,473 --> 00:56:25,073
I remember walking in to see
him after the court appearance,

1217
00:56:25,073 --> 00:56:26,440
seen him in the cells.

1218
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,073
Mr. Bland was introduced.

1219
00:56:28,073 --> 00:56:30,040
Mackay said, "Yeah,
I know who you are."

1220
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,073
He said, "You're here about
the murder of Mrs. Price."

1221
00:56:33,073 --> 00:56:34,197
He said, "Yeah, I killed her."

1222
00:56:34,237 --> 00:56:36,540
He said, "And a year
ago, I killed a woman

1223
00:56:36,540 --> 00:56:39,407
"called Isabella Griffiths
in Cheyne Walk in Chelsea."

1224
00:56:41,807 --> 00:56:44,140
Right, okay, fine.

1225
00:56:44,897 --> 00:56:48,010
So we then took him
back to Canon Row

1226
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,573
and then we embarked on this
marathon interview with him,

1227
00:56:52,573 --> 00:56:55,640
which resulted in a
60 odd page statement.

1228
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,207
[typewriter keys clacking]

1229
00:57:01,340 --> 00:57:04,140
[dramatic music]

1230
00:57:06,740 --> 00:57:10,240
He sat there and he
cooperated and he drunk tea.

1231
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:12,540
Had Chinese food
brought in for him.

1232
00:57:12,540 --> 00:57:15,940
Obviously it was
in our interests

1233
00:57:15,940 --> 00:57:18,140
to keep him on side, anyway.

1234
00:57:18,140 --> 00:57:21,040
We wanted as much
information from him

1235
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,477
as we could possibly get.

1236
00:57:23,373 --> 00:57:25,507
[dramatic music]

1237
00:57:25,507 --> 00:57:27,743
- [Mackay Voiceover] You
know, I can't remember

1238
00:57:27,783 --> 00:57:30,947
the name of the woman in
Cheyne Walk, unfortunately.

1239
00:57:31,407 --> 00:57:33,140
The only time it
comes back to me

1240
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:35,907
is when I walk
over Albert Bridge.

1241
00:57:35,907 --> 00:57:38,740
[dramatic music]

1242
00:57:42,073 --> 00:57:45,940
I got to the door, knocked on
the door, about evening time,

1243
00:57:45,940 --> 00:57:48,707
because I remember as I
walked past the house,

1244
00:57:48,707 --> 00:57:51,540
I saw the light on
in one of the rooms

1245
00:57:51,540 --> 00:57:53,640
and saw her sitting there.

1246
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,173
[dramatic music]

1247
00:57:55,173 --> 00:57:58,140
She answered the door, but
with the safety chain on.

1248
00:57:59,673 --> 00:58:03,173
At first, she didn't
seem to recognize me.

1249
00:58:03,173 --> 00:58:05,307
Then she did and said,

1250
00:58:05,307 --> 00:58:07,640
"I don't need any
shopping done today."

1251
00:58:08,637 --> 00:58:10,740
- He had befriended
Isabella Griffiths before,

1252
00:58:10,740 --> 00:58:12,007
sort of a couple
of weeks earlier,

1253
00:58:12,007 --> 00:58:14,273
he'd been doing shopping
for her and her friends.

1254
00:58:14,273 --> 00:58:16,273
So there's an element
of trust there.

1255
00:58:16,273 --> 00:58:19,073
And yet when he went back
and asked to be let in,

1256
00:58:19,073 --> 00:58:20,873
she wouldn't let him.

1257
00:58:20,873 --> 00:58:22,693
So something seems
to have changed there

1258
00:58:22,743 --> 00:58:25,007
where either she's
recognized a look in his eyes

1259
00:58:25,007 --> 00:58:27,507
or he's done something to
her in the intervening time

1260
00:58:27,507 --> 00:58:29,773
that he doesn't
remember, and suddenly

1261
00:58:29,773 --> 00:58:32,907
that kind of relationship
between them has gone.

1262
00:58:32,907 --> 00:58:34,473
[dramatic music]

1263
00:58:34,473 --> 00:58:37,173
- [Mackay Voiceover]
I struck the door and the chain snapped.

1264
00:58:37,173 --> 00:58:40,673
I gained entry and she
backed along the passageway.

1265
00:58:40,673 --> 00:58:44,607
I realized then I had done
something I shouldn't have done,

1266
00:58:44,607 --> 00:58:46,407
and I went a bit frantic.

1267
00:58:47,307 --> 00:58:51,507
The next thing I knew
she was on the floor.

1268
00:58:51,507 --> 00:58:53,540
[dramatic music]

1269
00:58:53,540 --> 00:58:55,240
- She's denying him something,

1270
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,640
but it's not just a childish
tantrum, it's more than that,

1271
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,673
it's the fact there's an
established bond there.

1272
00:58:59,673 --> 00:59:02,407
He's not knocking on some
random old lady's door

1273
00:59:02,407 --> 00:59:04,107
and expecting that
she's gonna let him in.

1274
00:59:04,107 --> 00:59:06,073
This is supposed
to be his friend

1275
00:59:06,073 --> 00:59:09,707
and she's not behaving as
he thinks he's entitled to.

1276
00:59:09,707 --> 00:59:11,207
[dramatic music]

1277
00:59:11,207 --> 00:59:12,940
- [Mackay Voiceover] I had
grabbed her around the neck.

1278
00:59:12,940 --> 00:59:14,840
This was in the kitchen area.

1279
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:18,160
I must have pressed her
neck hard with my left hand

1280
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:20,107
because she went unconscious.

1281
00:59:21,540 --> 00:59:24,840
I left her then and ventured
into her front room.

1282
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:26,740
She already had the wireless on.

1283
00:59:26,740 --> 00:59:29,690
I listened to a news
bulletin on the radio

1284
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,913
and felt a strong wanting
to venture up the stairs.

1285
00:59:33,570 --> 00:59:35,973
I wandered all up the stairs.

1286
00:59:35,973 --> 00:59:37,910
I then went back down the stairs

1287
00:59:37,950 --> 00:59:40,873
and had a strong compulsion
to kill her outright.

1288
00:59:40,873 --> 00:59:42,740
[dramatic music]

1289
00:59:42,740 --> 00:59:45,140
- That is the most chilling
thing about Patrick,

1290
00:59:45,140 --> 00:59:48,617
the way that it would be
a completely random thing.

1291
00:59:48,687 --> 00:59:54,007
He described killing as a
kind of white mist came down

1292
00:59:54,313 --> 00:59:56,803
and suddenly he was
completely out of control.

1293
00:59:56,883 --> 00:59:59,240
And it was very much
as if he was possessed,

1294
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,707
that suddenly something took
him over and made him kill.

1295
01:00:02,707 --> 01:00:04,207
[dramatic music]

1296
01:00:04,207 --> 01:00:06,340
- [Mackay Voiceover] I picked
up a knife for cutting meat,

1297
01:00:06,340 --> 01:00:07,767
a standard kitchen knife,

1298
01:00:07,827 --> 01:00:11,007
about the length of a 12
inch ruler in the blade.

1299
01:00:11,007 --> 01:00:13,960
I then rammed this
through her solar plexus,

1300
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:18,273
the bone of her chest, dead
center or just a bit below.

1301
01:00:18,273 --> 01:00:20,967
I felt it embed
itself into the floor.

1302
01:00:22,707 --> 01:00:25,707
- Mackay told us that
he'd stabbed her so hard

1303
01:00:25,707 --> 01:00:28,283
that the knife had gone through

1304
01:00:28,343 --> 01:00:29,973
and stuck in the floorboard.

1305
01:00:29,973 --> 01:00:32,107
That was inaccurate.

1306
01:00:32,107 --> 01:00:33,840
He'd actually stuck
in her scapular,

1307
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:35,973
on the inside the
shoulder blade.

1308
01:00:35,973 --> 01:00:37,473
- [Mackay Voiceover]
I then left her there

1309
01:00:37,513 --> 01:00:39,177
and sat down in the front room

1310
01:00:39,217 --> 01:00:41,707
and produced a bottle
of scotch from my pocket

1311
01:00:41,707 --> 01:00:43,263
and I emptied it.

1312
01:00:43,773 --> 01:00:47,040
It did not make me drunk,
but made me inflamed.

1313
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,507
You know how whiskey
warms you up.

1314
01:00:49,507 --> 01:00:52,007
It rather stimulated me.

1315
01:00:52,007 --> 01:00:56,073
- What Mackay does
next is very unusual.

1316
01:00:56,073 --> 01:00:59,507
He kneels over her
body, he closes her eyes

1317
01:00:59,507 --> 01:01:01,807
and he crosses her
arms across her chest,

1318
01:01:01,807 --> 01:01:03,640
in the style of an undertaker.

1319
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:05,180
Then Mackay gathers

1320
01:01:05,250 --> 01:01:07,340
various items of
clothing from the house,

1321
01:01:07,340 --> 01:01:11,640
drapes them over her body
and tucks them underneath.

1322
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:13,277
- [Mackay Voiceover]
I did turn the tap on

1323
01:01:13,307 --> 01:01:15,470
in the sink in the
kitchen at Cheyne Walk,

1324
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,073
where I had left the body.

1325
01:01:17,073 --> 01:01:20,007
The first thing I
threw in was a handbag,

1326
01:01:20,007 --> 01:01:24,340
a dish cloth and a towel,
some knives, plates, I think,

1327
01:01:24,340 --> 01:01:26,973
a saucer and maybe some shoes.

1328
01:01:26,973 --> 01:01:29,807
It was mainly things
that came to hand.

1329
01:01:29,807 --> 01:01:31,780
I remember her
shoes had come off

1330
01:01:31,810 --> 01:01:35,573
because I saw her toes protruding
through her stockings.

1331
01:01:35,573 --> 01:01:37,840
- Mackay was in no rush
to leave this scene

1332
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,107
for reasons that will
only ever be known to him.

1333
01:01:41,107 --> 01:01:43,073
He decides to go to the sink

1334
01:01:43,073 --> 01:01:46,173
and grab various
items of crockery,

1335
01:01:46,173 --> 01:01:48,107
put them in, fill
it up with water.

1336
01:01:48,107 --> 01:01:50,693
Bizarrely, takes
Isabella's shoes

1337
01:01:50,723 --> 01:01:52,570
and puts them in
the sink as well.

1338
01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:55,197
This was something that
really confused the detectives

1339
01:01:55,227 --> 01:01:56,427
when they turned up.

1340
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:58,773
- [Mackay Voiceover] After
I had taken the knife

1341
01:01:58,773 --> 01:02:00,873
out of her body
and covered her up,

1342
01:02:00,873 --> 01:02:03,573
I had a good look at
the blade of the knife.

1343
01:02:03,573 --> 01:02:06,707
I then contemplated ramming
it into my own body,

1344
01:02:06,707 --> 01:02:09,753
but then felt that this
was not the thing to do

1345
01:02:09,783 --> 01:02:10,857
at the present moment.

1346
01:02:12,073 --> 01:02:14,913
I then made an exit
out onto the street,

1347
01:02:14,963 --> 01:02:16,200
taking the knife with me.

1348
01:02:17,340 --> 01:02:19,877
- He'd worked through
the chronology of events

1349
01:02:19,907 --> 01:02:21,740
and John Bland said to him,

1350
01:02:21,740 --> 01:02:24,607
"Okay, I now want to ask
you about Adele Price."

1351
01:02:25,740 --> 01:02:30,603
And Mackay took
this deep breath in

1352
01:02:30,663 --> 01:02:31,770
and stood up

1353
01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:34,873
and almost swelled in
front of you and stood up.

1354
01:02:35,353 --> 01:02:40,417
And I thought, shit,
where we going from here?

1355
01:02:40,773 --> 01:02:42,440
And then he sat
down and he said,

1356
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:43,707
"Oh, I'm sorry about that."

1357
01:02:43,707 --> 01:02:46,040
He said, "I just had the
red mist for a minute."

1358
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:47,673
[dramatic music]

1359
01:02:47,673 --> 01:02:50,597
- [Mackay Voiceover] On that
day, I went down to Belgravia

1360
01:02:50,647 --> 01:02:52,473
about a quarter past 12.

1361
01:02:52,473 --> 01:02:53,807
[dramatic music]

1362
01:02:53,807 --> 01:02:56,157
I did a continuance
amount of wanderance

1363
01:02:56,187 --> 01:02:59,040
around Knightsbridge and
then went into Harrods,

1364
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,937
it's that large store.

1365
01:03:01,940 --> 01:03:05,170
The reason for which was
to do a bit of circulating

1366
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:06,373
for a likely pickup,

1367
01:03:06,373 --> 01:03:09,440
anybody who might be a
fair chance to follow.

1368
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:10,940
[dramatic music]

1369
01:03:10,940 --> 01:03:16,270
- On March 10th, 1975,
Mackay had had no luck

1370
01:03:16,550 --> 01:03:19,440
finding a potential robbery
victim outside Harrods.

1371
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:22,987
He'd retired, quite
disappointed to Lowndes Square,

1372
01:03:23,027 --> 01:03:25,190
and he'd plonked himself
down on the bench

1373
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:27,403
and was drinking from
a bottle of whiskey.

1374
01:03:27,513 --> 01:03:30,460
He saw Adele Price
returning home.

1375
01:03:31,307 --> 01:03:32,540
- [Mackay Voiceover] I
looked across the street

1376
01:03:32,570 --> 01:03:34,863
and saw the lady
involved in the murder,

1377
01:03:34,913 --> 01:03:37,073
cross the street onto my side.

1378
01:03:37,073 --> 01:03:38,677
I stopped as if lost,

1379
01:03:38,697 --> 01:03:41,493
awaited to see which
building she would enter.

1380
01:03:41,513 --> 01:03:42,870
When she entered the building,

1381
01:03:42,900 --> 01:03:44,997
I made to fumble with my keys.

1382
01:03:45,907 --> 01:03:47,963
She had opened the
door by this time

1383
01:03:48,013 --> 01:03:49,950
and I slipped in behind her.

1384
01:03:51,140 --> 01:03:53,940
She turned around,
looked a little startled.

1385
01:03:53,940 --> 01:03:57,707
I waved my keys and said,
"Oops, sorry, madam."

1386
01:03:57,917 --> 01:03:59,663
She then closed the front door

1387
01:03:59,733 --> 01:04:01,937
and I made my way up the stairs.

1388
01:04:01,997 --> 01:04:03,240
[dramatic music]

1389
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:07,673
- Mackay overtakes her, but he
puts on a tremble in his leg.

1390
01:04:08,127 --> 01:04:10,763
She notices this and he
says, "Oh, are you okay?"

1391
01:04:10,873 --> 01:04:14,540
Mackay says, "Well, I'm
feeling a little bit faint."

1392
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:17,350
According to his
account, Adele then says,

1393
01:04:17,390 --> 01:04:19,257
"Well, would you like to
come in for a glass of water

1394
01:04:19,277 --> 01:04:20,420
"or a cup of tea?"

1395
01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:22,373
At which point he says, "Well,
yeah, that'd be lovely."

1396
01:04:22,373 --> 01:04:23,840
[dramatic music]

1397
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:25,740
- [Mackay Voiceover] She told
me to wait in the parlor,

1398
01:04:25,770 --> 01:04:27,917
which was just inside
her front door.

1399
01:04:29,073 --> 01:04:32,100
When her back was turned, I
slammed the front flat door

1400
01:04:32,310 --> 01:04:35,250
and whisked into the
room where the TV was

1401
01:04:35,290 --> 01:04:36,517
and into her kitchen.

1402
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,823
She then came out
of the bathroom

1403
01:04:39,863 --> 01:04:42,370
and I was out of her
vision at this time

1404
01:04:42,430 --> 01:04:45,540
and heard her exclaim,
"Oh, how odd."

1405
01:04:45,850 --> 01:04:47,660
She seemed to have
the impression

1406
01:04:47,690 --> 01:04:49,680
that I had departed
from the flat.

1407
01:04:50,807 --> 01:04:53,513
I think this was the general
idea at the back of my mind

1408
01:04:53,553 --> 01:04:55,790
when I slammed the front
door and whisked away.

1409
01:04:56,907 --> 01:05:00,773
She came into the kitchen,
stated in shocked surprise

1410
01:05:00,813 --> 01:05:02,273
that she thought I had gone.

1411
01:05:02,703 --> 01:05:06,033
I then told her that I did
not want any complications

1412
01:05:06,093 --> 01:05:08,283
and that I was feeling on edge.

1413
01:05:09,547 --> 01:05:11,893
I looked around
the room and stated

1414
01:05:11,943 --> 01:05:15,547
that this was Belgravia, you
must know what I'm here for.

1415
01:05:15,687 --> 01:05:18,213
She then said, "I
can well guess."

1416
01:05:18,973 --> 01:05:21,293
I told her to go to the bedroom.

1417
01:05:21,333 --> 01:05:22,587
She went there.

1418
01:05:22,637 --> 01:05:24,873
I seemed to go into
the bedroom with her.

1419
01:05:25,343 --> 01:05:28,023
- To see somebody like
Mackay standing there,

1420
01:05:29,373 --> 01:05:34,373
it must have been
terrifying, terrifying.

1421
01:05:34,787 --> 01:05:36,473
I wouldn't want to
see that happen to me.

1422
01:05:37,607 --> 01:05:40,840
[dramatic music]

1423
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,607
You suddenly think that's
what the cops call,

1424
01:05:44,607 --> 01:05:48,883
in their really cultured
way, an oh shit moment.

1425
01:05:52,473 --> 01:05:56,063
It must be, "This is
not gonna end well."

1426
01:05:57,227 --> 01:05:59,530
I mean, I don't suppose
that she'd ever been

1427
01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:02,583
confronted with those
threatening type of situations

1428
01:06:02,623 --> 01:06:03,707
before in her life.

1429
01:06:04,127 --> 01:06:08,007
But that is a clear
and serious threat.

1430
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:10,930
And she must have
realized then that

1431
01:06:12,007 --> 01:06:14,907
the best she was gonna get
would be the worst of it.

1432
01:06:14,907 --> 01:06:18,373
Just shocking, shocking.

1433
01:06:18,603 --> 01:06:20,137
- [Mackay Voiceover] The
next thing I remember,

1434
01:06:20,157 --> 01:06:21,940
I had my hand around her neck.

1435
01:06:21,940 --> 01:06:24,970
I don't remember what
hand or how I did it,

1436
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:26,857
or even why I did it.

1437
01:06:26,940 --> 01:06:29,263
It seemed to happen
so much quicker

1438
01:06:29,303 --> 01:06:30,633
than in the Cheyne Walk one

1439
01:06:30,673 --> 01:06:32,690
where I seemed to
have lots of time.

1440
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:35,823
As I was strangling her,

1441
01:06:35,943 --> 01:06:38,483
she seemed to sink
down onto the floor.

1442
01:06:38,553 --> 01:06:40,437
I didn't particularly
think about

1443
01:06:40,487 --> 01:06:41,963
whether she was dead or not.

1444
01:06:42,003 --> 01:06:45,400
I went into the TV
room, switched on the TV

1445
01:06:45,570 --> 01:06:48,307
and gazed out of the
window for quite some time.

1446
01:06:48,307 --> 01:06:53,450
- This is weird, spooky,
ghoulish behavior,

1447
01:06:53,630 --> 01:06:55,977
having killed somebody
to sit with the body.

1448
01:06:57,360 --> 01:06:59,494
It was what he did with
Isabella Griffiths,

1449
01:06:59,494 --> 01:07:02,460
and it is what he
did with Adele Price.

1450
01:07:02,460 --> 01:07:05,527
And ultimately he
sat in the bathroom

1451
01:07:06,627 --> 01:07:09,527
with the bleeding
corpse of Father Crean.

1452
01:07:10,727 --> 01:07:14,927
This marks him out
from most murderers.

1453
01:07:14,927 --> 01:07:16,694
Psychiatrists would tell you,

1454
01:07:17,684 --> 01:07:21,460
part of the abnormality
of a completely ruthless

1455
01:07:21,460 --> 01:07:26,027
and unscrupulous person
that we call a psychopath.

1456
01:07:26,027 --> 01:07:27,494
[dramatic music]

1457
01:07:27,494 --> 01:07:30,030
- It's almost like being
an interested bystander.

1458
01:07:30,100 --> 01:07:32,554
Something has happened and
you are curious about it,

1459
01:07:32,574 --> 01:07:35,037
and there's his desire to
stay in the crime scene.

1460
01:07:35,087 --> 01:07:38,137
He wants to be there
watching what he's done.

1461
01:07:38,197 --> 01:07:40,174
But it is as an observer,

1462
01:07:40,204 --> 01:07:41,637
it's almost as though
he doesn't realize

1463
01:07:41,667 --> 01:07:43,260
that he's caused this.

1464
01:07:43,260 --> 01:07:46,427
And again, there's this distance
between him and the victim.

1465
01:07:46,457 --> 01:07:50,060
There's no empathy towards
them, there's no emotion,

1466
01:07:50,060 --> 01:07:52,887
it's just watching.

1467
01:07:53,177 --> 01:07:54,327
- [Mackay Voiceover]
I started to think

1468
01:07:54,327 --> 01:07:55,870
what I had done with my life.

1469
01:07:56,260 --> 01:07:59,127
I didn't particularly think
about murdering the old woman.

1470
01:07:59,127 --> 01:08:00,990
It didn't strike me particularly

1471
01:08:01,030 --> 01:08:03,660
that I was in a
serious situation.

1472
01:08:03,660 --> 01:08:06,060
I don't what
happened after that.

1473
01:08:06,060 --> 01:08:08,427
I may have dropped
off for a while.

1474
01:08:08,427 --> 01:08:11,354
The next I remember was
I heard a rattling sound,

1475
01:08:11,384 --> 01:08:13,360
and this seemed to wake me up.

1476
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,230
- It was her granddaughter

1477
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:16,594
who was trying to
get into the flat,

1478
01:08:16,594 --> 01:08:19,760
which she couldn't do because
Mackay had put up this latch.

1479
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:21,160
Obviously at this point,

1480
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:24,660
Mackay's probably
thinking he's been caught.

1481
01:08:24,660 --> 01:08:27,494
But what happens is
the granddaughter,

1482
01:08:27,494 --> 01:08:29,033
not being able to
get into the flat,

1483
01:08:29,073 --> 01:08:31,863
goes downstairs to see
whether she can get a neighbor

1484
01:08:31,894 --> 01:08:33,294
or someone to help.

1485
01:08:33,294 --> 01:08:36,627
In the intervening time,
Mackay leaves the flat

1486
01:08:36,627 --> 01:08:39,227
and starts heading
downstairs himself.

1487
01:08:39,227 --> 01:08:41,527
He passes the
granddaughter who says,

1488
01:08:41,527 --> 01:08:43,627
"Oh, have you seen
anybody up there?

1489
01:08:43,627 --> 01:08:45,127
"I can't get in."

1490
01:08:45,267 --> 01:08:49,067
Mackay puts on a Northern
accent and says to her,

1491
01:08:49,136 --> 01:08:51,027
"You'd better go
get the porter."

1492
01:08:51,027 --> 01:08:53,260
- He just leaves and passes her.

1493
01:08:53,260 --> 01:08:57,160
And you know, she's left to
discover her grandmother's body.

1494
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,594
So he lacks that kind
of sense of remorse

1495
01:09:00,654 --> 01:09:05,094
or sense of empathy towards
what she might be about to find.

1496
01:09:05,094 --> 01:09:06,904
- These individuals
really struggle

1497
01:09:06,934 --> 01:09:08,096
with emotional connection,

1498
01:09:08,117 --> 01:09:12,157
having the capacity to
understand, interpret

1499
01:09:12,216 --> 01:09:15,450
and connect with emotions,

1500
01:09:15,550 --> 01:09:18,360
whether their own or of others.

1501
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:20,827
- It's very callous,
it's very cool.

1502
01:09:21,594 --> 01:09:23,304
And again, it doesn't show

1503
01:09:23,354 --> 01:09:26,227
that he's got a full sense of
awareness of what he's done

1504
01:09:26,227 --> 01:09:28,377
or the enormity of it.

1505
01:09:28,447 --> 01:09:31,447
- Came that close
to being identified

1506
01:09:31,517 --> 01:09:34,604
and possibly that close
to her granddaughter

1507
01:09:34,624 --> 01:09:36,256
being a murder victim too.

1508
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,827
And then he's just melted
away into the night.

1509
01:09:39,827 --> 01:09:42,027
[dramatic music]

1510
01:09:42,027 --> 01:09:43,960
- During the course
of these interviews,

1511
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:48,527
Mackay stuns detectives
by suddenly revealing

1512
01:09:48,527 --> 01:09:51,460
that he has a fourth victim.

1513
01:09:51,460 --> 01:09:54,360
- He told us about a
murder that he committed

1514
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:56,890
on Hungerford Bridge,

1515
01:09:56,930 --> 01:09:59,494
when you could still walk
across Hungerford Bridge.

1516
01:09:59,494 --> 01:10:01,527
[dramatic music]

1517
01:10:01,527 --> 01:10:03,437
- [Mackay Voiceover] This
was in the early hours,

1518
01:10:03,507 --> 01:10:07,794
2:30 a.m. I think,
sometime in January, 1974.

1519
01:10:07,794 --> 01:10:10,460
It was before I killed
the woman in Cheyne Walk.

1520
01:10:10,460 --> 01:10:13,787
I had been drinking in
pubs in the Clapham area,

1521
01:10:13,847 --> 01:10:16,354
and when they closed,
I walked from Stockwell

1522
01:10:16,394 --> 01:10:17,410
up to the embankment

1523
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:19,894
and walked alongside
of the River Thames.

1524
01:10:19,894 --> 01:10:22,934
Halfway over the
bridge, I saw a vagrant.

1525
01:10:22,974 --> 01:10:25,527
He was late 40s or 50.

1526
01:10:25,527 --> 01:10:28,927
He wore a sort of cap
affair, shabby, grease cap.

1527
01:10:28,967 --> 01:10:30,570
He had some growth on his face

1528
01:10:30,610 --> 01:10:32,894
as if he hadn't
shaved for some time.

1529
01:10:32,894 --> 01:10:34,460
As he came towards me,

1530
01:10:34,460 --> 01:10:37,494
I could see that he had
been drinking himself

1531
01:10:37,584 --> 01:10:39,547
and he shouted some abuse at me.

1532
01:10:39,617 --> 01:10:41,327
I can't remember what he said,

1533
01:10:41,377 --> 01:10:43,694
but something like
F off or fuck off.

1534
01:10:43,694 --> 01:10:45,760
He was sort of growling.

1535
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:48,660
He waved his arm in
the air towards me.

1536
01:10:48,660 --> 01:10:51,560
It was at that time
that I lost my temper.

1537
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,294
[dramatic music]

1538
01:10:54,294 --> 01:10:57,994
I grabbed him by his pants
at the backside and his neck,

1539
01:10:57,994 --> 01:11:00,194
that is the collar at
the back of his coat,

1540
01:11:00,194 --> 01:11:02,597
and heaved him over
the edge of the bridge

1541
01:11:02,627 --> 01:11:04,360
into the River Thames.

1542
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,994
[dramatic music]

1543
01:11:06,994 --> 01:11:09,194
- When he was telling
us, he started laughing.

1544
01:11:09,194 --> 01:11:10,427
He said, "It was funny."

1545
01:11:10,427 --> 01:11:12,467
He said, "His arms and
legs were flying about."

1546
01:11:13,127 --> 01:11:15,427
He said, "He hit the
water with a big splash."

1547
01:11:16,860 --> 01:11:19,814
So oh, so, Jimmy said to
him, "So, what'd you do?"

1548
01:11:19,894 --> 01:11:21,007
He said, "Nothing."

1549
01:11:22,294 --> 01:11:25,527
He said, "It was his fault,
shouldn't have sworn at me."

1550
01:11:25,527 --> 01:11:26,830
- [Mackay Voiceover]
He started splashing

1551
01:11:26,860 --> 01:11:28,427
as though he couldn't swim.

1552
01:11:28,427 --> 01:11:31,827
I can't remember if he
shouted, but I suppose he did.

1553
01:11:31,827 --> 01:11:33,260
He was splashing a lot.

1554
01:11:33,260 --> 01:11:35,220
I didn't care if he sank or not.

1555
01:11:36,597 --> 01:11:38,227
- But we never
identified that guy

1556
01:11:38,227 --> 01:11:42,200
because Mackay's grasp
on time and space

1557
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:45,880
and so on and so forth,
wasn't sufficient to say

1558
01:11:45,930 --> 01:11:49,660
that happened on Monday, the
12th of July or whatever.

1559
01:11:49,890 --> 01:11:52,124
So we were left with
a period of time

1560
01:11:52,164 --> 01:11:53,687
of about four or five weeks,

1561
01:11:53,717 --> 01:11:58,524
during which time there were
half a dozen bodies washed up

1562
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:02,460
that roughly fitted
the description.

1563
01:12:02,460 --> 01:12:04,890
But certainly not sufficient

1564
01:12:04,990 --> 01:12:06,727
for us to be able to
say that happened.

1565
01:12:06,727 --> 01:12:09,527
I mean, you could say that
Mackay said he did it.

1566
01:12:09,527 --> 01:12:12,824
But you've gotta be able
to prove, first of all,

1567
01:12:12,874 --> 01:12:15,927
that the body you have is the
one that he's talking about.

1568
01:12:15,927 --> 01:12:19,230
And it just couldn't be solved.

1569
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:20,460
[dramatic music]

1570
01:12:20,460 --> 01:12:22,580
- [Mackay Voiceover] These
murders were so solemn,

1571
01:12:22,620 --> 01:12:27,027
when I think of them, yet so
quick, so fast to take place.

1572
01:12:27,407 --> 01:12:29,174
You know, a man who has killed

1573
01:12:29,204 --> 01:12:32,034
cannot really say much
more than the basics

1574
01:12:32,104 --> 01:12:34,094
from his point of view
as he remembers it.

1575
01:12:34,094 --> 01:12:36,270
In my case, for instance,

1576
01:12:36,350 --> 01:12:39,194
I became very cocky about
a few things that happened.

1577
01:12:39,194 --> 01:12:40,760
[dramatic music]

1578
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:46,590
- Mackay felt a sense
of control and enjoyment

1579
01:12:46,637 --> 01:12:50,230
at the fact that the police
were very much reliant on his narrative.

1580
01:12:50,410 --> 01:12:54,310
He was central to
this entire situation.

1581
01:12:54,350 --> 01:12:59,590
So I think that served to
increase his feelings of control

1582
01:12:59,670 --> 01:13:02,154
and his own self-esteem,
in all of the interactions.

1583
01:13:03,194 --> 01:13:05,527
- It absolutely gives
him some degree of power.

1584
01:13:05,597 --> 01:13:07,194
The last word on
these people's lives.

1585
01:13:07,234 --> 01:13:09,287
He's not only the last
person that saw them,

1586
01:13:09,357 --> 01:13:11,037
he's not only the person
that took their lives,

1587
01:13:11,117 --> 01:13:13,207
he's the person that gives us

1588
01:13:13,267 --> 01:13:15,727
our understanding of them
in their final moments.

1589
01:13:16,257 --> 01:13:18,114
- There were other
murders that he admitted

1590
01:13:18,154 --> 01:13:19,727
during the course of this,

1591
01:13:19,727 --> 01:13:22,294
but of course we had
no knowledge of them,

1592
01:13:22,294 --> 01:13:24,694
no intimate knowledge
of them at all,

1593
01:13:24,694 --> 01:13:28,560
because they'd happened
in divisions away from us.

1594
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,600
So there was not much
we could do about them,

1595
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:33,734
other than note the fact

1596
01:13:33,784 --> 01:13:35,880
that he'd said that he
was responsible for them.

1597
01:13:35,910 --> 01:13:37,627
[train engine revving]

1598
01:13:37,627 --> 01:13:42,357
- July, 1973, there's a
17-year-old German Au Pair

1599
01:13:42,417 --> 01:13:45,627
called Heidi Mnilk,
who is on a train.

1600
01:13:46,047 --> 01:13:47,654
She was stabbed multiple times

1601
01:13:47,684 --> 01:13:50,427
and her body was thrown
from the moving train.

1602
01:13:50,427 --> 01:13:56,097
Mackay supposedly bragged
about having killed this woman.

1603
01:13:56,284 --> 01:14:00,944
- You can see why that young
blonde girl, Heidi Mnilk,

1604
01:14:01,384 --> 01:14:04,937
had to be a target for him 'cause he
would've spoken to her,

1605
01:14:05,057 --> 01:14:06,594
found out she was German,

1606
01:14:06,594 --> 01:14:09,394
found out she was
quite pretty in a way.

1607
01:14:09,394 --> 01:14:12,460
But he was on a train, she
was going out the door.

1608
01:14:12,820 --> 01:14:14,500
I do believe he did that.

1609
01:14:14,580 --> 01:14:17,744
But what you got, a door that
opens, a girl on the track.

1610
01:14:17,844 --> 01:14:19,160
You got nothing else.

1611
01:14:19,160 --> 01:14:20,527
[gentle music]

1612
01:14:20,527 --> 01:14:22,094
[train engine revving]

1613
01:14:22,094 --> 01:14:23,594
[gentle music]

1614
01:14:23,594 --> 01:14:27,797
- January, 1974, a lady
called Stephanie Britton

1615
01:14:27,817 --> 01:14:30,474
and her four-year-old
grandson, Christopher Martin,

1616
01:14:30,494 --> 01:14:34,180
were murdered in their house
in High Barnet, North London.

1617
01:14:34,300 --> 01:14:37,504
This was an area that Mackay
was very familiar with,

1618
01:14:37,544 --> 01:14:39,154
he'd worked there
as a groundsman.

1619
01:14:39,204 --> 01:14:42,767
The suspect in this
case was a young man,

1620
01:14:42,837 --> 01:14:45,364
seen loitering in the area.

1621
01:14:45,414 --> 01:14:47,427
Stephanie had been strangled,

1622
01:14:47,427 --> 01:14:50,747
Christopher had been
stabbed in the chest.

1623
01:14:50,797 --> 01:14:53,727
There's never been another
suspect other than Mackay.

1624
01:14:53,727 --> 01:14:56,670
- The bottom line is,
for all of these things,

1625
01:14:57,710 --> 01:15:00,567
whatever somebody tells
you, you've got to prove it.

1626
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,240
There's no point in saying,

1627
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:04,940
"He's admitted that he's
gonna plead guilty."

1628
01:15:04,940 --> 01:15:07,373
Maybe not, you've
gotta prove it.

1629
01:15:07,373 --> 01:15:09,873
It's not about the truth
when you get to court,

1630
01:15:09,873 --> 01:15:11,373
it's about what you can prove.

1631
01:15:11,373 --> 01:15:13,273
It all has to be proved.

1632
01:15:13,273 --> 01:15:15,506
[birds chirping]

1633
01:15:15,506 --> 01:15:18,173
[gentle music]

1634
01:15:20,873 --> 01:15:22,373
- My name's Vic Davis.

1635
01:15:23,540 --> 01:15:26,706
My mother, Ivy
Davis was murdered

1636
01:15:26,706 --> 01:15:29,873
on February the 4th, 1975.

1637
01:15:30,923 --> 01:15:35,806
To the outside world, she was
happy-go-lucky, welcoming.

1638
01:15:35,806 --> 01:15:39,206
But as a private
person, to her children,

1639
01:15:39,206 --> 01:15:43,040
she was very cold
and sharp and direct.

1640
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:45,840
She said, "Jump" and you said,
"How high" sort of thing.

1641
01:15:46,740 --> 01:15:48,773
Different world in them days.

1642
01:15:48,773 --> 01:15:51,506
[dramatic music]

1643
01:15:51,506 --> 01:15:55,106
- She was a fairly well
known figure in Southend.

1644
01:15:55,106 --> 01:16:00,026
She ran the Orange Tree Cafe,
which was a beachfront cafe,

1645
01:16:00,086 --> 01:16:03,806
part of a row of little
independent restaurants.

1646
01:16:03,806 --> 01:16:06,440
- In 1960, when my
parents split up,

1647
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:09,440
she took the two oldest
children, both daughters,

1648
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:11,403
and put the rest of us
in the children's home

1649
01:16:11,443 --> 01:16:12,773
in Shoeburyrness.

1650
01:16:12,773 --> 01:16:16,140
When I became 15, they
allowed me to visit my mother

1651
01:16:16,140 --> 01:16:18,673
on a Thursday at seven o'clock,

1652
01:16:18,673 --> 01:16:20,523
until I got into
trouble with the police

1653
01:16:20,563 --> 01:16:25,373
and I was put in a young
offenders institute.

1654
01:16:25,820 --> 01:16:29,040
That week, fortunately
or unfortunately for me,

1655
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:30,906
I was in charge of the TV.

1656
01:16:30,906 --> 01:16:33,273
Every week, it was
allocated to somebody else,

1657
01:16:33,273 --> 01:16:35,063
rather than just
people turning over

1658
01:16:35,103 --> 01:16:37,073
whenever they felt like it.

1659
01:16:37,073 --> 01:16:39,006
So the 5:45 news came on,

1660
01:16:39,006 --> 01:16:40,940
as nowadays, they give
you the headlines,

1661
01:16:40,940 --> 01:16:42,440
what's coming up on the TV?

1662
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:44,540
And then they said,
"Murder in Southend."

1663
01:16:44,540 --> 01:16:46,340
At the same time, all these
guys are saying to me,

1664
01:16:46,340 --> 01:16:49,716
"Vic, turn the TV over, The
Monkeys is gonna be on."

1665
01:16:49,736 --> 01:16:53,673
"The Monkeys" TV show is due
to start on the other side.

1666
01:16:55,440 --> 01:16:59,170
So I said, hold on a minute,
there's a murder in Southend,

1667
01:16:59,210 --> 01:17:00,740
I might know who it is.

1668
01:17:00,740 --> 01:17:02,873
I'll turn it over
when I find out.

1669
01:17:02,873 --> 01:17:06,206
Never thinking I'd have
any idea who it was.

1670
01:17:06,206 --> 01:17:09,073
Bang, picture of my
mother on the TV.

1671
01:17:10,073 --> 01:17:11,206
And I'm like

1672
01:17:12,573 --> 01:17:14,323
Froze, just froze.

1673
01:17:14,343 --> 01:17:15,973
And they all saying,
"Do you know who is it?

1674
01:17:15,973 --> 01:17:17,840
"Turn over turn."

1675
01:17:19,073 --> 01:17:21,473
Yes, I fucking know who it is.
Excuse the language.

1676
01:17:21,473 --> 01:17:23,173
I know who it is.

1677
01:17:23,173 --> 01:17:24,473
It's my bloody mother.

1678
01:17:24,473 --> 01:17:26,020
And TV went flying.

1679
01:17:26,070 --> 01:17:28,663
I don't even remember
throwing the TV.

1680
01:17:29,123 --> 01:17:31,006
I just don't remember it,

1681
01:17:31,006 --> 01:17:32,540
but that's what
they told me I did.

1682
01:17:32,540 --> 01:17:35,506
I just went into ice
cold shock really.

1683
01:17:36,806 --> 01:17:40,273
- Ivy Davis fitted the
Mackay victim profile

1684
01:17:40,273 --> 01:17:43,740
of an older lady who might
have a bit of money at home.

1685
01:17:43,740 --> 01:17:47,340
The murder scene
itself was reminiscent

1686
01:17:47,340 --> 01:17:49,406
of what happened
at Father Crean's.

1687
01:17:49,406 --> 01:17:52,940
She'd been battered around
the head with a heavy object,

1688
01:17:52,940 --> 01:17:55,606
turned out to be
a metal pry bar,

1689
01:17:55,606 --> 01:17:59,140
which was just casually
discarded at the scene.

1690
01:17:59,140 --> 01:18:01,273
- They think she was
dragged down the stairs

1691
01:18:01,273 --> 01:18:02,936
with ligature around her neck.

1692
01:18:02,986 --> 01:18:05,706
She was found with a
ligature around her neck.

1693
01:18:05,706 --> 01:18:08,840
Although they've confirmed
that that didn't kill her.

1694
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,273
They've told me that
whoever killed her,

1695
01:18:11,273 --> 01:18:13,973
spent quite a bit of time
in my mother's house,

1696
01:18:13,973 --> 01:18:18,908
cleaning up, moving furniture
around, undressing my mother,

1697
01:18:18,938 --> 01:18:21,653
putting her in a night dress.
And she was all bad on one side,

1698
01:18:21,710 --> 01:18:23,176
and so they laid
her on her bad side

1699
01:18:23,226 --> 01:18:25,806
to make it look like she'd
fallen asleep, watching TV,

1700
01:18:25,806 --> 01:18:27,280
left the TV on.

1701
01:18:29,223 --> 01:18:31,460
Anyway, I was contacted
by this woman,

1702
01:18:31,500 --> 01:18:33,606
she said that she used to
work in my mother's cafe

1703
01:18:33,606 --> 01:18:35,906
up until the time
she was killed.

1704
01:18:35,906 --> 01:18:39,740
And one particular day

1705
01:18:39,740 --> 01:18:42,313
this man came into the cafe

1706
01:18:42,343 --> 01:18:44,873
asking if he could
bring in some patients

1707
01:18:44,933 --> 01:18:46,816
from Runwell Hospital.

1708
01:18:47,406 --> 01:18:50,140
And so my mother
said, "Who are you?"

1709
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:54,073
And he said, "My name's
Patrick, I'm a doctor.

1710
01:18:54,073 --> 01:18:57,766
"I'm just taking these
inpatients out for a day out,

1711
01:18:57,816 --> 01:18:59,706
"give 'em some air."

1712
01:18:59,976 --> 01:19:01,240
So she said, "Yes, okay."

1713
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,973
He brought 'em in and fed
them whatever they wanted.

1714
01:19:04,973 --> 01:19:08,613
- Obviously Patrick
Mackay wasn't a doctor

1715
01:19:08,653 --> 01:19:11,640
at a mental hospital, he
was a longstanding patient.

1716
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:13,810
Not sure whether he'd
ever been in Runwell,

1717
01:19:13,850 --> 01:19:15,243
it's possible that he might have

1718
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:16,780
admitted himself at some point

1719
01:19:16,780 --> 01:19:21,747
because he did admit himself
occasionally and then abscond.

1720
01:19:22,270 --> 01:19:23,847
So it's quite possible.

1721
01:19:23,847 --> 01:19:25,547
But we just don't know

1722
01:19:25,547 --> 01:19:28,113
because sadly Ivy's
not around to ask.

1723
01:19:28,113 --> 01:19:30,180
- The story he goes that

1724
01:19:30,180 --> 01:19:33,413
while he was on remand
before he went to trial,

1725
01:19:34,060 --> 01:19:38,513
he admitted a few other murders
actually naming my mother,

1726
01:19:38,513 --> 01:19:39,780
that yes, he killed her.

1727
01:19:41,313 --> 01:19:43,747
- If Mackay did know
about The Orange Tree,

1728
01:19:43,747 --> 01:19:45,180
did know about Ivy,

1729
01:19:45,310 --> 01:19:48,520
it would be incredibly
unlucky on her part

1730
01:19:48,890 --> 01:19:53,113
that a completely different
psychopathic killer

1731
01:19:53,113 --> 01:19:55,027
has visited her on that
day and killed her.

1732
01:19:55,627 --> 01:19:57,083
- He was there.

1733
01:19:57,843 --> 01:20:00,047
But you see, if I'm there,

1734
01:20:00,047 --> 01:20:01,980
it don't mean to say
I've murdered you.

1735
01:20:02,743 --> 01:20:06,047
If I'm there and I've got your
blood on me, that's better.

1736
01:20:06,820 --> 01:20:09,567
If I'm there and my fingerprints
are around your throat,

1737
01:20:10,197 --> 01:20:12,673
if you've got something like
a collar on, that's better.

1738
01:20:13,343 --> 01:20:15,630
But if I'm there,
and you're dead,

1739
01:20:15,710 --> 01:20:17,177
that don't make me a killer.

1740
01:20:17,637 --> 01:20:20,113
- [Mackay Voiceover] At the
request of the Southend Police,

1741
01:20:20,113 --> 01:20:21,903
we went to view
this murder house.

1742
01:20:22,073 --> 01:20:25,777
She had apparently been hit,
one killing blow on the head.

1743
01:20:25,927 --> 01:20:28,987
I was never charged with this,
and I would think not to.

1744
01:20:29,107 --> 01:20:31,247
It certainly wasn't
me they wanted.

1745
01:20:32,447 --> 01:20:34,880
- Psychopaths, like
to create chaos.

1746
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:39,013
So creating a situation
where he makes a confession

1747
01:20:39,013 --> 01:20:42,420
and then at the last moment
retracts that confession

1748
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:44,880
is a means to retaining power.

1749
01:20:45,210 --> 01:20:48,290
- Mackay made numerous
further confessions.

1750
01:20:48,370 --> 01:20:51,320
The two most serious ones

1751
01:20:51,710 --> 01:20:54,380
were the murder of a man
called Frank Goodman,

1752
01:20:54,380 --> 01:20:56,890
who was a shopkeeper
in North London

1753
01:20:56,910 --> 01:20:58,937
who'd been battered
in his store.

1754
01:20:59,207 --> 01:21:01,013
The other was, again,

1755
01:21:01,013 --> 01:21:03,587
another elderly lady
called Mary Hines,

1756
01:21:03,667 --> 01:21:08,280
killed in a very similar
way to Isabella and Adele.

1757
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,247
- [Mackay Voiceover] She was
found stabbed, I believe,

1758
01:21:10,247 --> 01:21:12,080
and battered to death.

1759
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,280
There is no evidence to tie
me except statements I made

1760
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:18,200
in a fed up and couldn't
care less frame of mind.

1761
01:21:18,980 --> 01:21:23,047
- In June, 1974,
shopkeeper Frank Goodman

1762
01:21:23,047 --> 01:21:26,280
was battered to death in his
store in Rock Street, Finsbury.

1763
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,547
The detectives involved
in that case said

1764
01:21:28,547 --> 01:21:30,037
it was one of the most
horrific crime scenes

1765
01:21:30,067 --> 01:21:31,183
they'd ever seen.

1766
01:21:31,223 --> 01:21:35,180
Essentially, Mr. Goodman's
head was obliterated.

1767
01:21:35,180 --> 01:21:37,747
It has a lot of similarities

1768
01:21:37,747 --> 01:21:40,780
to the crime scene
with Father Crean,

1769
01:21:40,780 --> 01:21:43,580
in terms of the
ferocity of this attack.

1770
01:21:44,420 --> 01:21:47,020
- And then we found the
shoes two years later,

1771
01:21:47,130 --> 01:21:48,730
still with Goodman's blood,

1772
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,070
under the welt of
Mackay's shoes.

1773
01:21:51,300 --> 01:21:54,717
We knew it was his shoes, he
said where we'd find them.

1774
01:21:54,897 --> 01:21:56,813
We knew it was Goodman's blood,

1775
01:21:56,813 --> 01:21:59,447
so we knew that that
one had to be true,

1776
01:21:59,447 --> 01:22:01,690
so he could have been
charged with that one.

1777
01:22:01,740 --> 01:22:06,613
- However, these two cases,
when it came to court,

1778
01:22:06,613 --> 01:22:10,947
Mackay said he was gonna
plead not guilty to murder.

1779
01:22:10,947 --> 01:22:15,947
The CPS decided to let
those cases lie on file.

1780
01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:18,843
- Perhaps the three
murders that he went up for

1781
01:22:18,883 --> 01:22:20,680
were ones that,

1782
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:24,347
I'm gonna use a police
term, were bang to rights,

1783
01:22:24,347 --> 01:22:27,213
and the others were ones that,

1784
01:22:27,213 --> 01:22:30,480
if he went to trial
and he went not guilty,

1785
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:31,813
he could walk away with it.

1786
01:22:31,813 --> 01:22:33,023
[dramatic music]

1787
01:22:33,053 --> 01:22:36,747
- When I wrote my book, I
looked at the unsolved cases

1788
01:22:36,747 --> 01:22:38,847
that were linked
to Patrick Mackay.

1789
01:22:38,847 --> 01:22:40,163
When I started looking at it,

1790
01:22:40,203 --> 01:22:42,847
I fully expected to find that
in the intervening years,

1791
01:22:42,847 --> 01:22:44,453
some of them have
had been solved.

1792
01:22:44,913 --> 01:22:46,290
None of them have been.

1793
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:48,647
Not only have they
not been solved,

1794
01:22:48,647 --> 01:22:53,113
in those years, there have
never been any serious suspects

1795
01:22:53,113 --> 01:22:54,613
put up by the police.

1796
01:22:54,613 --> 01:22:58,380
So you've got to question,
what's going on here?

1797
01:22:58,380 --> 01:23:00,460
Some of these were horrific.

1798
01:23:00,500 --> 01:23:03,370
They were obviously carried
out by a dangerous maniac.

1799
01:23:03,390 --> 01:23:07,413
So if Patrick Mackay didn't
commit these crimes, who did?

1800
01:23:07,413 --> 01:23:10,547
[gentle music]

1801
01:23:10,547 --> 01:23:11,797
- I was there at the Old Bailey

1802
01:23:11,837 --> 01:23:14,447
on the 21st of November, 1975,

1803
01:23:14,447 --> 01:23:17,913
and the trial, with a blink of
an eye, you'd have missed it.

1804
01:23:17,913 --> 01:23:20,113
I'd been to all the
remand hearings as well

1805
01:23:20,113 --> 01:23:21,747
with them at magistrate's court.

1806
01:23:21,747 --> 01:23:26,280
So I was quite familiar then
with being fairly close to him.

1807
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:28,810
And his eyes almost looked like

1808
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:30,380
they belonged to somebody else.

1809
01:23:30,380 --> 01:23:32,733
But the moment
they turned on you,

1810
01:23:32,773 --> 01:23:35,247
he looked around the
court for familiar faces,

1811
01:23:35,247 --> 01:23:38,380
so it was the police, it
was me as the reporter

1812
01:23:38,380 --> 01:23:40,280
who'd been following him around,

1813
01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:41,910
and when they settled on you,

1814
01:23:41,950 --> 01:23:44,613
they sent a real
chill down your spine.

1815
01:23:44,613 --> 01:23:48,747
I mean, you know, the
phrase, cold-blooded killer,

1816
01:23:48,747 --> 01:23:51,480
could have been invented
for Patrick Mackay.

1817
01:23:52,480 --> 01:23:54,447
He showed no emotion at all.

1818
01:23:54,447 --> 01:23:56,280
He obviously knew
what was coming.

1819
01:23:56,280 --> 01:24:00,047
It was Mr. Justice
Milmo who was presiding

1820
01:24:00,047 --> 01:24:03,297
and gave him a very
quick life sentence

1821
01:24:03,317 --> 01:24:05,580
and said that he
should not be released

1822
01:24:05,580 --> 01:24:07,617
until it could be proved

1823
01:24:07,637 --> 01:24:09,647
that he wasn't a
danger to the public.

1824
01:24:09,647 --> 01:24:11,103
And that's where we are now.

1825
01:24:11,133 --> 01:24:14,413
So we're 47 years on from that,

1826
01:24:14,413 --> 01:24:16,390
and Patrick Mackay
has now become

1827
01:24:16,430 --> 01:24:18,103
Britain's
longest-serving prisoner.

1828
01:24:19,113 --> 01:24:20,647
- [Mackay Voiceover] The
doctors whom I have seen

1829
01:24:20,647 --> 01:24:24,280
feel that I may not or would
not respond to medical help

1830
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:26,547
if it were to be given
or offered to me.

1831
01:24:27,713 --> 01:24:30,013
It is in fact the
direct opposite.

1832
01:24:30,013 --> 01:24:31,900
I would be willing,
body and soul,

1833
01:24:31,950 --> 01:24:34,300
to accept medical help
in a secure hospital

1834
01:24:34,350 --> 01:24:36,347
for many years to
come if necessary,

1835
01:24:36,407 --> 01:24:39,863
for I know deep down that
this is just what I need,

1836
01:24:39,903 --> 01:24:43,980
if there is to be any future
for me to lead a normal life.

1837
01:24:43,980 --> 01:24:47,730
I must be helped, I can't
remain in the state I am

1838
01:24:47,780 --> 01:24:49,347
for the rest of my life.

1839
01:24:49,347 --> 01:24:53,980
It is my last hope to
survive as a human being.

1840
01:24:53,980 --> 01:24:57,080
[dramatic music]

1841
01:24:57,080 --> 01:24:58,547
- Although you were
dealing at the time

1842
01:24:58,547 --> 01:25:00,843
with what we thought
could potentially be

1843
01:25:00,883 --> 01:25:03,613
Britain's most
prolific serial killer,

1844
01:25:03,613 --> 01:25:06,577
it kind of captured the
headlines the day after,

1845
01:25:06,617 --> 01:25:07,880
it was certainly the front page

1846
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:10,513
of all the national
newspapers the day after,

1847
01:25:10,513 --> 01:25:12,180
after that it was forgotten.

1848
01:25:12,180 --> 01:25:15,013
[dramatic music]

1849
01:25:17,447 --> 01:25:20,113
The person who gave the
most detail at the time

1850
01:25:20,143 --> 01:25:23,310
was Patrick Mackay's,
adopted Father Bert Cowdrey.

1851
01:25:23,340 --> 01:25:24,930
He was the one who
began to give me

1852
01:25:24,980 --> 01:25:29,080
some kind of insight
into Patrick's mind.

1853
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:32,313
- He was always coming
here with women's watches,

1854
01:25:32,313 --> 01:25:34,747
necklaces, broaches.

1855
01:25:34,747 --> 01:25:37,647
Things that a man
should never have.

1856
01:25:37,647 --> 01:25:39,247
Well, when I used to say to him,

1857
01:25:39,247 --> 01:25:41,480
"Where'd you get
them then mush?"

1858
01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:43,813
"Oh, I'm looking after
it for somebody."

1859
01:25:43,813 --> 01:25:45,690
We knew that he
was buying drugs,

1860
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:49,947
but where from or what he
was taking, we didn't know.

1861
01:25:49,947 --> 01:25:53,713
And after dark had come down

1862
01:25:53,713 --> 01:25:56,213
and he'd had a few drinks,

1863
01:25:56,213 --> 01:25:59,753
got a few drinks in him, he
absolutely turned violent.

1864
01:25:59,773 --> 01:26:01,737
He was capable of
doing anything.

1865
01:26:01,757 --> 01:26:03,047
[dramatic music]

1866
01:26:03,317 --> 01:26:06,013
- If anything, this was
absolutely terrifying

1867
01:26:06,083 --> 01:26:09,710
that Patrick had told
him that he believed

1868
01:26:09,780 --> 01:26:13,277
that if Satan could come down
in human form, he was it.

1869
01:26:13,327 --> 01:26:14,913
[dramatic music]

1870
01:26:14,913 --> 01:26:16,827
I'd put it to Bert Cowdrey,

1871
01:26:16,867 --> 01:26:19,713
are you saying that Patrick
Mackay is the devil's disciple?

1872
01:26:19,713 --> 01:26:21,397
To which he said, "Yes,

1873
01:26:21,437 --> 01:26:23,347
"I think that's a fair
description of him."

1874
01:26:23,347 --> 01:26:26,197
Which is how the headline
appeared in the paper.

1875
01:26:26,217 --> 01:26:27,257
[dramatic music]

1876
01:26:27,257 --> 01:26:29,530
- We were all scared of kind
of the bogeyman, you know,

1877
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,390
or people breaking into
our homes at night.

1878
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:34,147
And so to use this kind
of description of him,

1879
01:26:34,147 --> 01:26:36,057
however factual it might be,

1880
01:26:36,107 --> 01:26:38,347
it also kind of
serves this purpose of

1881
01:26:38,397 --> 01:26:41,050
working almost as a horror
story to the readers

1882
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:44,213
or some sort of nightmare
that we can all identify with.

1883
01:26:44,213 --> 01:26:47,217
You know, that these
figures aren't in our heads,

1884
01:26:47,247 --> 01:26:48,620
they do exist.

1885
01:26:49,513 --> 01:26:52,447
- I mean, it was an absolutely
tremendous front page.

1886
01:26:52,447 --> 01:26:54,413
But I think that with
all these things,

1887
01:26:54,413 --> 01:26:56,610
you also are always conscious

1888
01:26:56,630 --> 01:26:58,607
that there are victims involved

1889
01:26:58,647 --> 01:27:00,713
and human tragedies behind it.

1890
01:27:00,713 --> 01:27:02,447
[dramatic music]

1891
01:27:02,797 --> 01:27:06,083
Patrick Mackay has been
behind bars for 47 years.

1892
01:27:06,133 --> 01:27:09,797
Very little has come out about
exactly what he's been doing

1893
01:27:09,837 --> 01:27:12,080
and what treatment
he's been having.

1894
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,113
And obviously the key
now for the parole board,

1895
01:27:15,113 --> 01:27:17,480
when they're deciding
on his release,

1896
01:27:17,590 --> 01:27:19,783
is whether or not
something has changed

1897
01:27:19,803 --> 01:27:22,020
in that intervening 47 years,

1898
01:27:22,090 --> 01:27:24,550
or he still remains the
danger to the public

1899
01:27:24,580 --> 01:27:25,873
that he always was.

1900
01:27:26,847 --> 01:27:30,007
- [Reporter] One of the most
dangerous men in the country,

1901
01:27:30,057 --> 01:27:31,960
back on Kent Streets.

1902
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,253
That's the prospect
facing the county

1903
01:27:34,353 --> 01:27:36,630
with serial killer
Patrick Mackay

1904
01:27:36,700 --> 01:27:39,377
potentially being
moved to an open prison

1905
01:27:39,417 --> 01:27:41,647
with a view to being released.

1906
01:27:41,967 --> 01:27:43,083
- My name's Gareth Johnson.

1907
01:27:43,113 --> 01:27:45,287
I'm the member of
Parliament for Dartford.

1908
01:27:45,437 --> 01:27:46,680
Before becoming a
member of Parliament,

1909
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:50,713
I was a solicitor specializing
in criminal justice.

1910
01:27:50,713 --> 01:27:53,797
I received a phone call
about three or four years ago

1911
01:27:53,877 --> 01:27:56,480
from someone who worked
in the prison service

1912
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:59,343
who was deeply concerned
about Patrick Mackay

1913
01:27:59,413 --> 01:28:01,980
potentially being released
back into the community.

1914
01:28:02,020 --> 01:28:05,613
They had had some very bad
experiences with Patrick Mackay.

1915
01:28:06,153 --> 01:28:09,433
They felt that he was a potentially
enormously violent man.

1916
01:28:09,513 --> 01:28:10,580
If I'm honest with you,

1917
01:28:10,580 --> 01:28:12,513
when I first received that
phone call, like most people,

1918
01:28:12,513 --> 01:28:14,730
I'd never heard of
Patrick Mackay before.

1919
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:16,510
And so we had to do a
little bit of digging

1920
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:18,510
to find out exactly
who this man was.

1921
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:20,577
And the more and more
we found out about him,

1922
01:28:20,617 --> 01:28:23,380
the more and more
concerned I became,

1923
01:28:23,380 --> 01:28:25,913
that this is a man
who could be released

1924
01:28:25,913 --> 01:28:29,650
back into society in his 60s

1925
01:28:29,780 --> 01:28:32,036
and potentially able to commit
some of the

1926
01:28:32,116 --> 01:28:34,293
heinous crimes that he had
committed before.

1927
01:28:34,353 --> 01:28:35,620
And what was also concerning,

1928
01:28:35,660 --> 01:28:38,277
there was two matters
that were left on file

1929
01:28:38,307 --> 01:28:39,310
that were still there,

1930
01:28:39,330 --> 01:28:40,847
and also that he was suspected

1931
01:28:40,877 --> 01:28:43,213
of having committed
other killings as well.

1932
01:28:43,213 --> 01:28:46,337
And it seemed to us that
these other killings

1933
01:28:46,367 --> 01:28:48,247
hadn't been properly
looked into,

1934
01:28:48,597 --> 01:28:50,260
and there seemed
to be too much ease

1935
01:28:50,290 --> 01:28:52,753
at the way that those
matters were left on file

1936
01:28:52,793 --> 01:28:54,700
just to gather dust for years.

1937
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,413
And that's exactly how
they've been to this day.

1938
01:28:57,833 --> 01:29:00,903
- There seems to be a
worrying lack of curiosity

1939
01:29:00,943 --> 01:29:03,797
by the police on
exactly what happened

1940
01:29:03,837 --> 01:29:05,747
to these cases
that were unsolved.

1941
01:29:05,747 --> 01:29:10,700
Now, when Patrick Mackay was
coming up for parole recently,

1942
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:12,730
my understanding was the police

1943
01:29:12,760 --> 01:29:16,550
were doing a cold case review
of some of these murders.

1944
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:17,970
I did check that out

1945
01:29:18,020 --> 01:29:20,127
and police said, no,
they weren't doing that.

1946
01:29:20,177 --> 01:29:21,473
But one of the reasons

1947
01:29:21,503 --> 01:29:24,713
why parole hearings
were being postponed

1948
01:29:24,773 --> 01:29:27,380
was so these investigations
could be carried out

1949
01:29:27,410 --> 01:29:30,067
to see if he could be
charged with anything else.

1950
01:29:30,107 --> 01:29:31,960
As far as I can gather,
nothing ever happened,

1951
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:33,480
nothing ever came of that.

1952
01:29:33,480 --> 01:29:36,573
- [Reporter] Since
1995, Mackay's parole

1953
01:29:36,613 --> 01:29:39,607
has been reviewed on
10 separate occasions.

1954
01:29:39,677 --> 01:29:42,403
In each of those, he's
been deemed too dangerous

1955
01:29:42,473 --> 01:29:45,223
to be integrated
back into society.

1956
01:29:46,180 --> 01:29:48,690
- What we've asked for
is if the parole boards

1957
01:29:48,860 --> 01:29:51,217
were to release him, which
would be wrong, in my opinion,

1958
01:29:51,287 --> 01:29:53,283
that there's a lot
of restrictions

1959
01:29:53,333 --> 01:29:55,320
that we would like to
have placed upon him

1960
01:29:55,360 --> 01:29:57,560
so that he doesn't go
to the Dartford area

1961
01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,293
or the neighboring towns.

1962
01:29:59,293 --> 01:30:00,827
He doesn't go back
to areas where,

1963
01:30:00,827 --> 01:30:02,260
not only the victims
used to live,

1964
01:30:02,260 --> 01:30:04,527
but also the victims
for those murders

1965
01:30:04,527 --> 01:30:06,327
he's suspected of
having carried out.

1966
01:30:06,327 --> 01:30:07,827
[car engine revving]

1967
01:30:07,827 --> 01:30:10,160
He should be monitored
incredibly carefully

1968
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:11,427
if he was ever to be released,

1969
01:30:11,427 --> 01:30:13,627
but I don't think any
amount of monitoring

1970
01:30:13,647 --> 01:30:14,650
would be sufficient.

1971
01:30:14,670 --> 01:30:16,160
And that's why I don't
think it would be right

1972
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:17,497
for him to be released at all.

1973
01:30:17,827 --> 01:30:21,027
He benefits from his anonymity.

1974
01:30:21,573 --> 01:30:23,393
People don't know about him

1975
01:30:23,393 --> 01:30:25,527
and therefore it's an easier job

1976
01:30:25,527 --> 01:30:27,193
for the parole
board to release him

1977
01:30:27,193 --> 01:30:29,147
without there being
a public backlash.

1978
01:30:29,457 --> 01:30:31,483
Because the public aren't
aware of Patrick Mackay

1979
01:30:31,623 --> 01:30:34,463
and they should be, they
really should be aware of him.

1980
01:30:35,093 --> 01:30:37,027
[gentle music]

1981
01:30:37,027 --> 01:30:40,017
- I don't think that
somebody like Patrick Mackay

1982
01:30:40,327 --> 01:30:42,793
should be able to be free

1983
01:30:42,793 --> 01:30:45,127
while he still has
the physical ability

1984
01:30:45,127 --> 01:30:47,227
to put his hands
around someone's throat

1985
01:30:47,227 --> 01:30:49,037
and squeeze the
life out of them.

1986
01:30:49,097 --> 01:30:52,863
I think he should be kept
away from the general public.

1987
01:30:53,273 --> 01:30:54,993
- I'm one of these people

1988
01:30:55,313 --> 01:30:58,460
that is convinced that a leopard
can never change his spots.

1989
01:31:00,060 --> 01:31:03,060
Maybe I haven't got anything
to be nervous about,

1990
01:31:03,060 --> 01:31:04,827
but as I say,

1991
01:31:04,827 --> 01:31:07,960
if he doesn't know that his
mother's moved from here,

1992
01:31:07,960 --> 01:31:10,893
he might well come
here looking for her

1993
01:31:10,893 --> 01:31:12,527
and then might start
knocking on doors

1994
01:31:12,527 --> 01:31:14,693
to try and find
out where she is.

1995
01:31:14,693 --> 01:31:15,893
And I would be much happier

1996
01:31:15,893 --> 01:31:18,093
if I didn't have any
contact with him at all.

1997
01:31:19,017 --> 01:31:20,593
- This is somebody
who is capable

1998
01:31:20,633 --> 01:31:22,460
of going back out on the streets

1999
01:31:22,460 --> 01:31:24,260
and carrying out
his reign of terror.

2000
01:31:24,260 --> 01:31:27,193
The only reason he
stopped killing people

2001
01:31:27,193 --> 01:31:29,827
was because he was
arrested for those matters.

2002
01:31:29,827 --> 01:31:32,160
It wasn't a decision
that he made himself,

2003
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:34,960
he was stopped from
killing any more people.

2004
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:36,627
And therefore, in my mind,

2005
01:31:36,627 --> 01:31:38,727
he remains the most
dangerous individual

2006
01:31:38,727 --> 01:31:42,327
we have eligible for parole
in this country at the moment.

2007
01:31:42,327 --> 01:31:45,160
- Well he's had 40 odd
years to be rehabilitated

2008
01:31:45,160 --> 01:31:48,627
and we don't know whether that's
going to have worked or not

2009
01:31:48,627 --> 01:31:49,950
unless he is freed.

2010
01:31:50,460 --> 01:31:53,127
So it's kind of a bit of a
game of Russian roulette,

2011
01:31:53,127 --> 01:31:56,793
that if you keep him locked
up, you're never going to know.

2012
01:31:56,793 --> 01:32:00,460
But if he's freed, you might
find out the wrong way.

2013
01:32:00,460 --> 01:32:03,660
- One would have
to be very cautious

2014
01:32:03,660 --> 01:32:07,360
about whether he can be
rehabilitated or not.

2015
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:11,093
When I think about it and when
I weigh up all the evidence

2016
01:32:11,093 --> 01:32:13,393
all over a number of years,

2017
01:32:13,393 --> 01:32:17,460
when I weigh up how many
years he's been incarcerated,

2018
01:32:17,460 --> 01:32:20,927
I still probably have my doubts.

2019
01:32:20,927 --> 01:32:25,927
But I'm not anyone
in the medical world, I can't read them.

2020
01:32:26,293 --> 01:32:28,350
But then neither
could these people

2021
01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:32,193
in these kind of institutions
he went to as a youngster,

2022
01:32:32,193 --> 01:32:33,860
they clearly couldn't read him.

2023
01:32:33,860 --> 01:32:36,127
'Cause every time they released
him, he killed someone.

2024
01:32:36,127 --> 01:32:37,327
[dramatic music]

2025
01:32:37,327 --> 01:32:38,960
- Patrick Mackay

2026
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:43,793
is what you could call
a pure psychopath.

2027
01:32:43,793 --> 01:32:47,127
He didn't have to worry
about living a double life

2028
01:32:47,127 --> 01:32:50,293
or keeping a veneer
of respectability.

2029
01:32:50,293 --> 01:32:52,093
He didn't have a plan.

2030
01:32:52,093 --> 01:32:57,093
If he wanted to lose complete
control and kill somebody,

2031
01:32:57,390 --> 01:32:58,750
that's what he did.

2032
01:32:58,810 --> 01:33:04,587
He took life with the
same kind of impulsiveness

2033
01:33:04,727 --> 01:33:07,293
that a normal person might use

2034
01:33:07,353 --> 01:33:09,493
to pick up a bar of chocolate.

2035
01:33:09,493 --> 01:33:12,293
[dramatic music]

2036
01:33:12,293 --> 01:33:15,527
- [Mackay Voiceover] You know,
when I look at myself now,

2037
01:33:15,527 --> 01:33:18,527
I could put a bullet through
my head and through my brain

2038
01:33:18,527 --> 01:33:21,793
for the kind of bloody
life that I have had,

2039
01:33:21,793 --> 01:33:24,527
but I do not know who
would do me that service.

2040
01:33:25,480 --> 01:33:28,927
I have often thought to
myself whenever I'm alone,

2041
01:33:28,927 --> 01:33:31,660
that it would be the best
thing I could ever have done.

2042
01:33:32,793 --> 01:33:37,727
♪ Sometimes I feel
like I'm blowing away ♪

2043
01:33:38,627 --> 01:33:41,560
♪ And the sky is broken

2044
01:33:41,560 --> 01:33:43,860
♪ It floods like a vein

2045
01:33:43,860 --> 01:33:46,793
♪ And I pray and I pray

2046
01:33:46,793 --> 01:33:50,593
♪ And I pray and I pray

2047
01:33:50,593 --> 01:33:54,360
♪ But the answers don't
come when I'm gone ♪

2048
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,960
[gentle music]

2049
01:34:15,460 --> 01:34:18,960
[gentle music continues]