1 00:00:23,607 --> 00:00:25,859 Hi, I'm Stan Lee. 2 00:00:25,943 --> 00:00:30,697 Editor of the Marvel Comics Group of superhero comic magazines. 3 00:00:31,949 --> 00:00:36,578 Comic books have been a big business for the past 25 years, 4 00:00:36,662 --> 00:00:38,830 and they are bigger than ever today. 5 00:00:39,748 --> 00:00:43,502 With this in mind, you'll be interested to know that the Marvel Comics Group 6 00:00:43,585 --> 00:00:45,379 is the acknowledged leader 7 00:00:45,462 --> 00:00:49,758 in monthly sales of all comic magazines published today. 8 00:00:50,092 --> 00:00:54,096 Our superheroes are the kind of people that you or I would be 9 00:00:54,179 --> 00:00:55,973 if we had a super power, 10 00:00:56,056 --> 00:00:59,935 which sets them apart from all other superheroes published today 11 00:01:00,018 --> 00:01:04,773 and seems to be the reason that they're actually far more popular than any others. 12 00:01:09,987 --> 00:01:14,324 Every one of us are a product of all the things we've experienced, 13 00:01:14,700 --> 00:01:17,327 seen, read, and heard in our lives. 14 00:01:17,828 --> 00:01:21,331 So, when I write, I'm remembering things that happened. 15 00:01:22,624 --> 00:01:24,585 Those things become part of the story. 16 00:01:29,506 --> 00:01:33,218 One day, I was trying to think of a new superhero 17 00:01:34,636 --> 00:01:37,139 and I saw a fly crawling on a wall. 18 00:01:41,643 --> 00:01:46,023 And I thought, "Gee, wouldn't it be something if a hero could stick to walls 19 00:01:46,106 --> 00:01:47,733 "and move on them like an insect." 20 00:01:50,485 --> 00:01:56,533 I decided I wanted somebody who every one of the readers could identify with. 21 00:01:58,327 --> 00:02:01,788 If I had superhuman powers, wouldn't I still have to worry 22 00:02:01,872 --> 00:02:05,500 about making a living or having my dates like me? 23 00:02:07,961 --> 00:02:13,842 {\an8}What I tried to do was write the kind of stories I would want to read, 24 00:02:13,926 --> 00:02:16,762 {\an8}and sometimes I had to buck a trend to do that. 25 00:02:18,972 --> 00:02:22,851 I think perseverance plays such a great part of it. 26 00:02:23,435 --> 00:02:26,396 If you think you've got it, you just mustn't give up. 27 00:02:27,564 --> 00:02:30,943 You gotta just keep working at it, hoping sooner or later 28 00:02:32,778 --> 00:02:34,863 somebody will recognize what you've done. 29 00:03:12,776 --> 00:03:19,366 December 28th was a very important date for me in the year 1922. 30 00:03:20,576 --> 00:03:22,077 That's when I was born. 31 00:03:23,203 --> 00:03:27,916 On the West Side of Manhattan, on 98th Street and West End Avenue. 32 00:03:30,294 --> 00:03:33,338 My name was Stanley Martin Lieber. 33 00:03:35,674 --> 00:03:38,844 {\an8}My parents came to New York from Eastern Europe, 34 00:03:39,970 --> 00:03:42,806 and they used to like to take photographs of me. 35 00:03:42,890 --> 00:03:45,893 They didn't have a camera, but there were people in the neighborhood. 36 00:03:46,143 --> 00:03:48,812 I think you'd pay them a dime at that time. 37 00:03:49,021 --> 00:03:53,025 They would have a little pony with them, and they put the little kid on the pony. 38 00:03:53,233 --> 00:03:56,778 (CHUCKLES) So, I had more photos of myself taken on ponies. 39 00:03:57,613 --> 00:04:01,617 I did have a brother who was born nine years after me. 40 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:04,411 His name is Larry and he's a great guy, 41 00:04:04,494 --> 00:04:07,581 but unfortunately, I was nine years older, 42 00:04:07,789 --> 00:04:10,584 so it was tough to pal around with him. 43 00:04:11,710 --> 00:04:13,086 I loved reading. 44 00:04:13,837 --> 00:04:15,130 I think I was born reading, 45 00:04:15,214 --> 00:04:17,925 I mean, I can't remember a time when I wasn't reading. 46 00:04:19,176 --> 00:04:23,013 I loved Sherlock Holmes, Tarzan, The Hardy Boys, 47 00:04:23,388 --> 00:04:28,185 King Arthur and his Knights, The Odyssey, everything I could get my hands on. 48 00:04:28,894 --> 00:04:31,647 My mother said I would read the labels on ketchup bottles 49 00:04:31,730 --> 00:04:33,440 if there was nothing else around. 50 00:04:36,568 --> 00:04:39,321 We didn't have any money. It was during the Depression. 51 00:04:40,948 --> 00:04:43,158 The one thing I wanted was a bicycle. 52 00:04:44,368 --> 00:04:47,120 And finally, my folks scraped up enough money 53 00:04:47,204 --> 00:04:49,122 and they bought me this two-wheeler. 54 00:04:50,749 --> 00:04:55,212 And, man, I felt as though I could go anywhere on that bike. 55 00:04:56,129 --> 00:04:57,589 I had been freed. 56 00:05:21,989 --> 00:05:26,410 I used to go to the movies and I'd see Errol Flynn on the screen. 57 00:05:28,245 --> 00:05:31,123 He played Robin Hood, Captain Blood. 58 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:33,208 He was always a hero. 59 00:05:36,086 --> 00:05:37,629 I wanted to be Errol Flynn. 60 00:05:42,593 --> 00:05:44,386 And I would leave the theater 61 00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:48,265 and ride my bike over the George Washington Bridge, 62 00:05:48,348 --> 00:05:50,684 which goes from Manhattan to New Jersey. 63 00:05:51,185 --> 00:05:55,981 And it was such a triumphant feeling to ride across the bridge. 64 00:05:56,940 --> 00:06:00,027 And I knew I was gonna become somebody important. 65 00:06:04,031 --> 00:06:05,949 NARRATOR: Again, we bring you another chapter 66 00:06:06,033 --> 00:06:08,577 of Edgar Rice Burroughs' amazing history 67 00:06:08,660 --> 00:06:10,704 of Tarzan of the Apes. 68 00:06:11,205 --> 00:06:13,832 The astounding record of a superman who became the... 69 00:06:13,916 --> 00:06:17,586 STAN: My father was a great guy, but he had trouble getting a job. 70 00:06:18,337 --> 00:06:19,796 He had been a dress cutter, 71 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,799 and there were just no jobs apparently for dress cutters. 72 00:06:23,467 --> 00:06:26,220 And so, he was unemployed most of the time. 73 00:06:27,638 --> 00:06:30,807 My earliest memories are just him sitting home, 74 00:06:30,891 --> 00:06:33,268 reading the want ads in the newspaper. 75 00:06:34,436 --> 00:06:38,023 I always felt tremendous pity for him. 76 00:06:38,607 --> 00:06:43,237 It must be a terrible feeling to just not be bringing in the money 77 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,947 that's needed for your family. 78 00:06:46,198 --> 00:06:51,078 To me, it seemed as if having a good job, a steady job, 79 00:06:51,161 --> 00:06:54,665 was the greatest success a person could attain, 80 00:06:54,748 --> 00:06:57,668 only because my father never had one. 81 00:06:59,336 --> 00:07:02,464 That's one of the reasons I started working at an early age. 82 00:07:03,590 --> 00:07:06,051 I got a job as an office boy, 83 00:07:06,134 --> 00:07:10,806 at the second largest trouser manufacturer. 84 00:07:10,889 --> 00:07:15,185 They had millions of salesmen, and whenever they wanted a glass of water, 85 00:07:15,269 --> 00:07:17,688 or they wanted someone to sharpen a pencil, 86 00:07:17,771 --> 00:07:19,773 they would yell, "Boy!" 87 00:07:20,357 --> 00:07:23,318 and whichever one of us was closer had to come running, 88 00:07:23,402 --> 00:07:25,362 and I resented the fact 89 00:07:25,445 --> 00:07:28,782 that they never took the trouble to learn my name. 90 00:07:30,075 --> 00:07:33,370 Like, a week before Christmas, they told me I have to leave 91 00:07:33,912 --> 00:07:35,247 and, oh, I was burned up. 92 00:07:36,456 --> 00:07:39,167 But if they hadn't fired me, I might have stayed there 93 00:07:39,710 --> 00:07:44,423 and I might have made my life working in trousers. I was lucky. 94 00:07:48,385 --> 00:07:51,096 {\an8}There was a general rush. Bank deposits... 95 00:07:52,347 --> 00:07:53,987 SPORTS ANNOUNCER: And Owens wins again... 96 00:07:54,099 --> 00:07:55,517 MAN ON TV: Oh, the humanity... 97 00:08:04,067 --> 00:08:08,488 STAN: Writing was always fun. In fact, I remember I was a very corny guy. 98 00:08:08,572 --> 00:08:12,618 I had a little briefcase and I loved carrying it with me 99 00:08:12,701 --> 00:08:15,871 when I walked in the streets so people would think I was a writer. 100 00:08:15,954 --> 00:08:17,873 You know, a little thin briefcase. 101 00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:21,793 When I graduated high school, I had an uncle 102 00:08:21,877 --> 00:08:23,712 and he worked for a publisher, 103 00:08:23,795 --> 00:08:27,341 and he told me that they were looking for an assistant. 104 00:08:28,091 --> 00:08:31,261 And I figured, "Gee, I'm going to apply." So I went up there, 105 00:08:32,846 --> 00:08:35,265 and I found out they also published comic books. 106 00:08:35,349 --> 00:08:37,851 They had an outfit called Timely Comics, 107 00:08:38,477 --> 00:08:40,854 and they hired me to run errands, 108 00:08:40,938 --> 00:08:44,525 {\an8}to proof-read, fill the inkwell, whatever had to be done. 109 00:08:46,568 --> 00:08:50,239 {\an8}I didn't really have any intention to be working in comics, 110 00:08:50,322 --> 00:08:51,823 but it was a job. 111 00:08:53,158 --> 00:08:55,953 There were two guys, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, 112 00:08:56,036 --> 00:08:57,454 who were running the thing. 113 00:08:57,538 --> 00:09:02,751 Joe Simon was the boss and he walked around puffing a big cigar 114 00:09:02,834 --> 00:09:06,463 and he talked in a very deep voice, and he was great. I liked him. 115 00:09:06,547 --> 00:09:08,131 He had a lot of personality. 116 00:09:08,215 --> 00:09:10,509 And Jack would sit hunched over the drawing board 117 00:09:10,592 --> 00:09:12,636 and do most of the actual artwork. 118 00:09:13,929 --> 00:09:16,932 {\an8}I asked Stan how old he was. He says, "17." 119 00:09:17,015 --> 00:09:20,310 {\an8}So we gave him a job there. He was the gofer, you know. 120 00:09:20,435 --> 00:09:23,063 {\an8}And he'd go out and get coffee. 121 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:26,942 STAN: I would ask Jack, "You comfortable? Do you want some more ink? 122 00:09:27,025 --> 00:09:29,403 "Is your brush okay? Is the pencil all right?" 123 00:09:29,486 --> 00:09:31,780 And he would yell at me for a while. 124 00:09:31,864 --> 00:09:34,241 And that was the way we spent our days. 125 00:09:35,325 --> 00:09:37,953 {\an8}SIMON: He drove Jack Kirby crazy. 126 00:09:38,704 --> 00:09:41,248 He had a little instrument. A piccolo? 127 00:09:41,623 --> 00:09:46,128 And he played this thing all day. And Kirby would tell him to shut up. 128 00:09:46,378 --> 00:09:48,422 And Stan would keep playing. 129 00:09:50,632 --> 00:09:54,344 STAN: We had The Human Torch and The Sub-Mariner and The Patriot 130 00:09:54,428 --> 00:09:56,513 and The Angel and The Destroyer. 131 00:09:57,472 --> 00:10:01,059 {\an8}But the main character we had was Captain America. 132 00:10:02,436 --> 00:10:05,564 {\an8}From the very beginning, we were very much affected 133 00:10:05,647 --> 00:10:08,609 {\an8}by what was going on in the world around us. 134 00:10:09,109 --> 00:10:13,488 {\an8}Joe Simon and Jack Kirby were doing stories of Captain America 135 00:10:13,572 --> 00:10:15,991 battling Hitler and the Nazis 136 00:10:16,074 --> 00:10:20,370 {\an8}even before America had gotten into the war. 137 00:10:20,454 --> 00:10:23,957 {\an8}Captain America came from the need for a patriotic character 138 00:10:24,041 --> 00:10:27,669 {\an8}because the times at that time were in a patriotic stir. 139 00:10:27,753 --> 00:10:31,340 {\an8}The war was coming on and the war clouds were gathering 140 00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:34,843 {\an8}and so Captain America had to come into existence. 141 00:10:37,971 --> 00:10:40,349 STAN: I came in in 1939, 142 00:10:41,391 --> 00:10:43,143 and it was such a small place 143 00:10:43,227 --> 00:10:46,063 that Jack Kirby and Joe couldn't keep up with all the stories. 144 00:10:46,688 --> 00:10:49,149 And they said, "Hey, could you help us write a story or two?" 145 00:10:49,233 --> 00:10:52,653 When you're 16, what do you know. I said, "Sure, I could do it." 146 00:10:58,867 --> 00:11:00,744 When I started doing comics, 147 00:11:00,869 --> 00:11:05,165 I figured I would just do them for a little while and get some experience 148 00:11:05,249 --> 00:11:07,960 and I thought one day I'll be a big time writer 149 00:11:08,043 --> 00:11:10,462 and maybe I'll write the Great American Novel. 150 00:11:11,588 --> 00:11:14,383 I always, in the back of my mind, liked comics, 151 00:11:14,466 --> 00:11:16,760 but I never considered that real writing. 152 00:11:17,928 --> 00:11:20,889 I said, "I'm not going to use my name for these silly comics." 153 00:11:21,473 --> 00:11:23,600 And I thought, "I need a pen name." 154 00:11:26,770 --> 00:11:30,315 So, I just took my first name, Stanley, and I cut it in two 155 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,526 and I signed "Stan Lee." 156 00:11:32,609 --> 00:11:34,903 And the first story that I wrote was called 157 00:11:34,987 --> 00:11:37,698 "Captain America and the Traitor's Revenge." 158 00:11:39,449 --> 00:11:43,579 And what happened was, everybody started to know me as Stan Lee 159 00:11:43,662 --> 00:11:46,081 {\an8}and nobody knew me anymore as Stanley Lieber. 160 00:11:47,291 --> 00:11:49,418 {\an8}It was like my alter ego. 161 00:12:00,596 --> 00:12:02,973 (RADIO CRACKLING AND SWITCHING STATIONS) 162 00:12:03,056 --> 00:12:05,350 SPORTS ANNOUNCER: And the champion Yankees roar! 163 00:12:10,647 --> 00:12:13,775 STAN: After a while, Joe and Jack left Timely Comics 164 00:12:14,484 --> 00:12:17,946 and the publisher looked around at his vast empire, 165 00:12:18,030 --> 00:12:21,033 and he saw this one skinny kid with a broom in one hand 166 00:12:21,116 --> 00:12:22,492 and a typewriter in the other 167 00:12:22,576 --> 00:12:25,162 and he said, "Hey, where's the rest of my staff?" 168 00:12:25,245 --> 00:12:26,330 And I said, "I'm it." 169 00:12:26,455 --> 00:12:28,832 He said, "Somebody's gotta edit these books." 170 00:12:28,916 --> 00:12:32,044 He said, "Stan, can you hold down the job till I get somebody else?" 171 00:12:32,127 --> 00:12:34,046 And I said, "Okay, I'll take it." 172 00:12:34,129 --> 00:12:37,841 So, he went off into the outside world to seek another editor, 173 00:12:37,925 --> 00:12:40,928 and I was now Stan Lee, boy editor pro tem. 174 00:12:42,012 --> 00:12:45,766 And that was it, I became the editor, and I think he forgot to hire somebody 175 00:12:45,849 --> 00:12:47,726 because I remained the editor. 176 00:12:47,809 --> 00:12:50,229 So at 17, I was really running the place. 177 00:12:51,271 --> 00:12:54,733 And since I was my own writer and my own editor, 178 00:12:54,816 --> 00:12:57,069 I didn't have much to change. 179 00:12:57,152 --> 00:13:00,614 So I was able to get these stories moving very fast. 180 00:13:06,662 --> 00:13:08,830 {\an8}FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT: Since the unprovoked 181 00:13:09,706 --> 00:13:12,125 and dastardly attack 182 00:13:12,543 --> 00:13:15,921 by Japan on Sunday, 183 00:13:16,004 --> 00:13:19,675 December 7th, 1941, 184 00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:22,386 a state of war 185 00:13:23,428 --> 00:13:25,305 has existed 186 00:13:26,056 --> 00:13:27,891 between the United States 187 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,561 and the Japanese Empire. 188 00:13:31,478 --> 00:13:33,480 STAN: Like an idiot, I volunteered. 189 00:13:34,773 --> 00:13:39,111 I felt it was my duty. It was a big war. And I wanted to be like Errol Flynn. 190 00:13:39,194 --> 00:13:40,821 I wanted to be a hero. 191 00:13:41,446 --> 00:13:43,740 But before they could send me overseas, 192 00:13:43,824 --> 00:13:46,577 they found out I had worked for this comic book company. 193 00:13:47,286 --> 00:13:49,413 The next thing I know, I got transferred 194 00:13:49,496 --> 00:13:52,082 to Astoria, Queens, in New York, 195 00:13:52,165 --> 00:13:53,959 where they had a film unit 196 00:13:54,042 --> 00:13:59,173 where they did training films and instructional books for the troops. 197 00:14:00,465 --> 00:14:03,260 Funny thing. I didn't know this until after the war ended. 198 00:14:03,343 --> 00:14:07,431 I looked at my army discharge and it said Army occupation, it said playwright. 199 00:14:08,348 --> 00:14:12,686 They were having a big problem training finance officers quickly enough. 200 00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:15,606 The men overseas weren't getting paid on time 201 00:14:15,689 --> 00:14:18,775 'cause there weren't enough payroll officers to pay them. 202 00:14:18,859 --> 00:14:22,696 So I was asked, could I rewrite the finance textbooks 203 00:14:22,779 --> 00:14:25,532 to make the training period shorter? 204 00:14:25,616 --> 00:14:29,578 I rewrote the finance textbooks using comic strips. 205 00:14:30,537 --> 00:14:34,499 We were able to shorten the training period for finance officers 206 00:14:34,583 --> 00:14:36,919 from six months to six weeks. 207 00:14:38,170 --> 00:14:39,838 It was then I realized 208 00:14:39,922 --> 00:14:44,051 that comic books can have a tremendous impact. 209 00:14:44,676 --> 00:14:47,679 You can convey a story or information 210 00:14:47,763 --> 00:14:52,392 faster, more clearly, and more enjoyably, than any other way, 211 00:14:52,476 --> 00:14:54,019 short of motion pictures. 212 00:15:09,576 --> 00:15:12,746 STAN: After the Army, I went back to the comic book company. 213 00:15:13,163 --> 00:15:15,707 Started doing what I had been doing all the time. 214 00:15:16,875 --> 00:15:19,878 I had a cousin and he was in the hat business. 215 00:15:21,046 --> 00:15:24,550 And one day, he said, there was a model, a hat model, 216 00:15:24,633 --> 00:15:26,718 at this place, named Betty. 217 00:15:26,802 --> 00:15:29,888 He thought I'd really like her and she might like me. 218 00:15:29,972 --> 00:15:33,058 So, I went up to this hat model place, 219 00:15:33,809 --> 00:15:35,602 and somebody opened the door. 220 00:15:36,854 --> 00:15:39,147 {\an8}I remember it very clearly. 221 00:15:39,231 --> 00:15:41,275 {\an8}He came to the door and he was... 222 00:15:41,692 --> 00:15:42,943 He had his raincoat 223 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:44,862 thrown over his shoulder. 224 00:15:44,945 --> 00:15:46,655 Joan opened the door. 225 00:15:46,738 --> 00:15:49,741 Now, she was not the girl that I was supposed to meet. 226 00:15:49,825 --> 00:15:51,994 But she was the head model there. And she was... 227 00:15:52,077 --> 00:15:54,079 She opened the door and said... 228 00:15:54,162 --> 00:15:55,163 Hello! 229 00:15:56,456 --> 00:15:57,457 And he said, 230 00:15:59,918 --> 00:16:04,798 "Hello, I think I'm going to fall in love with you." 231 00:16:06,175 --> 00:16:07,342 STAN: I couldn't believe it. 232 00:16:07,843 --> 00:16:12,055 She had this beautiful English accent. And I'm a real Anglophile. 233 00:16:12,681 --> 00:16:14,725 An English accent knocks me out. 234 00:16:14,808 --> 00:16:16,768 And she was gorgeous. 235 00:16:17,436 --> 00:16:18,437 JOAN: I thought, 236 00:16:19,104 --> 00:16:21,607 "This one I can't let get away." 237 00:16:22,316 --> 00:16:24,026 It was really love at first sight. 238 00:16:38,248 --> 00:16:40,042 (PEOPLE CHATTERING INDISTINCTLY) 239 00:16:44,922 --> 00:16:47,216 STAN: At the time, we were known as Atlas Comics 240 00:16:47,299 --> 00:16:49,718 and we were just publishing what everybody else did. 241 00:16:49,801 --> 00:16:53,055 If western books were good, we published a thousand westerns. 242 00:16:53,138 --> 00:16:54,306 If romance books were in, 243 00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:56,850 we published a million romance books, and so forth. 244 00:16:56,934 --> 00:16:58,477 We just followed the trends. 245 00:16:59,144 --> 00:17:03,190 We did war stories, romance stories, humor stories, 246 00:17:03,815 --> 00:17:06,485 little funny animal animated comic stories. 247 00:17:07,528 --> 00:17:10,405 We were grinding out magazines like confetti, 248 00:17:11,281 --> 00:17:12,991 and we did that for years. 249 00:17:13,075 --> 00:17:16,995 At one point, we were churning out almost a hundred magazines a month. 250 00:17:19,206 --> 00:17:22,960 As a kid, all I wanted was a steady job, 251 00:17:24,878 --> 00:17:26,964 and now I had one. 252 00:17:28,841 --> 00:17:31,593 {\an8}Writing came very easily to me. 253 00:17:31,677 --> 00:17:35,597 {\an8}And in those early days, it was a fun way to make money. 254 00:17:36,265 --> 00:17:39,852 I was getting paid as an editor, art director, and head writer, 255 00:17:40,435 --> 00:17:44,857 but any stories that I wrote I got paid for on a freelance basis. 256 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,985 So as the editor, I bought all my stories. 257 00:17:49,444 --> 00:17:52,239 My wife and I, we were a little bit extravagant. 258 00:17:52,990 --> 00:17:54,867 We lived right up to whatever I made, 259 00:17:55,784 --> 00:17:59,121 and I was and am very much in love with her. 260 00:17:59,788 --> 00:18:01,540 So whatever Joanie wanted, I'd say, 261 00:18:01,623 --> 00:18:04,835 "That's fine, honey, I'll write another story tonight to pay for it." 262 00:18:05,377 --> 00:18:07,713 Not only her, anytime I wanted something. 263 00:18:07,796 --> 00:18:09,298 I want a new car. 264 00:18:09,381 --> 00:18:12,551 Okay. I'll write a couple of stories, that'll take care of the down payment, 265 00:18:12,634 --> 00:18:15,971 and I'll keep writing stories every time the payments come due. 266 00:18:16,722 --> 00:18:20,475 I was always writing the stories to keep up with what we were doing. 267 00:18:20,559 --> 00:18:24,021 It was like having a tiger by the tail. But we loved living that way. 268 00:18:30,903 --> 00:18:33,071 (OLDIES MUSIC PLAYING ON RADIO) 269 00:18:37,743 --> 00:18:40,996 In those days, comics weren't thought of very highly. 270 00:18:41,914 --> 00:18:45,042 I remember we'd go to parties and somebody would walk over to me 271 00:18:45,125 --> 00:18:46,460 and say, "What do you do?" 272 00:18:46,543 --> 00:18:50,047 And I tried not to say, and I would say, "Oh, I'm a writer," 273 00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:52,925 and I'd walk away, but the person would follow me, 274 00:18:53,008 --> 00:18:54,426 "Well, what do you write?" 275 00:18:54,510 --> 00:18:56,762 And I'd say, "Oh, stories for young people." 276 00:18:56,845 --> 00:19:00,265 Walk away further. Follow me, "What kind of stories?" 277 00:19:00,349 --> 00:19:02,768 "Magazine stories." "Well, what magazine?" 278 00:19:02,851 --> 00:19:05,938 At some point, I had to say comic books, 279 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,734 and the person who had been interrogating me would, "Oh, I see," 280 00:19:10,817 --> 00:19:13,403 and turn around and leave me, you know. 281 00:19:17,908 --> 00:19:20,619 MAN: Reading. What a wonderful thing this would be 282 00:19:20,702 --> 00:19:22,829 if they were reading something worthwhile. 283 00:19:22,913 --> 00:19:24,915 But they're not reading anything constructive, 284 00:19:24,998 --> 00:19:28,585 they're reading stories devoted to adultery, to sexual perversion, 285 00:19:28,669 --> 00:19:31,505 to horror, to the most despicable of crimes. 286 00:19:34,258 --> 00:19:37,219 STAN: In those days, we had to submit the comics 287 00:19:37,302 --> 00:19:40,639 to a self-censorship organization 288 00:19:40,722 --> 00:19:43,267 that had been set up by the publishers. 289 00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:46,353 It was called the Comics Code Authority. 290 00:19:46,436 --> 00:19:49,565 All the books we published had to be presented to them 291 00:19:49,648 --> 00:19:52,317 and they would make certain there was nothing in them 292 00:19:52,401 --> 00:19:54,820 that would ruin the youth of America. 293 00:20:01,702 --> 00:20:04,872 People thought of comics as being just for little kids. 294 00:20:06,623 --> 00:20:10,168 {\an8}And they were written and drawn with that in mind. 295 00:20:11,378 --> 00:20:13,505 {\an8}In those days, you're reading a comic book, 296 00:20:13,589 --> 00:20:15,465 {\an8}and it could really be any superhero, 297 00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:17,134 and he's walking down the street 298 00:20:17,217 --> 00:20:20,137 and he's got his little colorful long underwear suit on, 299 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:23,056 and he sees a big, bug-eyed monster coming toward him, 300 00:20:23,140 --> 00:20:26,894 and his dialogue would have been something the equivalent of, 301 00:20:26,977 --> 00:20:29,688 "Oh, a creature from another planet. 302 00:20:30,105 --> 00:20:33,483 "I had better capture him before he destroys the world." 303 00:20:36,445 --> 00:20:39,656 {\an8}My publisher, Martin Goodman, he used to say to me, 304 00:20:39,740 --> 00:20:43,744 {\an8}"Remember, Stan, don't use words of more than two syllables. 305 00:20:43,827 --> 00:20:46,914 "Don't have too much dialogue. Get a lot of action. 306 00:20:46,997 --> 00:20:48,999 "Don't worry about characterization." 307 00:20:49,583 --> 00:20:52,127 After a while, I really wanted to quit. 308 00:20:54,963 --> 00:20:59,051 For the best motion picture, The Apartment, Billy Wilder. 309 00:20:59,134 --> 00:21:00,135 (WOMEN VOCALIZING) 310 00:21:01,094 --> 00:21:04,723 Ask not what your country can do for you... 311 00:21:07,226 --> 00:21:09,686 STAN: I always felt I was really wasting time. 312 00:21:09,770 --> 00:21:14,066 I felt okay, so I'm making a living with selling comics, 313 00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:19,279 but there are people building bridges and people doing medical research 314 00:21:20,030 --> 00:21:22,616 {\an8}and people doing things that matter. 315 00:21:24,451 --> 00:21:28,163 And I'm writing these stupid little fantasy stories. 316 00:21:29,998 --> 00:21:31,500 I always felt, you know, 317 00:21:31,583 --> 00:21:33,752 how could a grown man be doing comic books? 318 00:21:34,670 --> 00:21:37,965 And he just felt that he can't just go on doing this... 319 00:21:38,048 --> 00:21:39,800 What he thought was childish stuff. 320 00:21:40,884 --> 00:21:43,303 And then I said to him, 321 00:21:43,387 --> 00:21:47,307 "Well, why don't you create characters that you like?" 322 00:21:47,391 --> 00:21:49,434 "The worst that'll happen is you'll get fired 323 00:21:49,518 --> 00:21:50,936 "and you want to quit anyway. 324 00:21:51,019 --> 00:21:52,312 "Get it out of your system." 325 00:21:53,313 --> 00:21:58,527 At that time, Martin Goodman had found out that our competitor, DC Comics, 326 00:21:58,610 --> 00:22:01,321 they had done a book called The Justice League of America. 327 00:22:01,405 --> 00:22:04,157 A group of superheroes, and it was selling very well. 328 00:22:04,741 --> 00:22:07,160 And he said to me, "Stan, why don't you do a book 329 00:22:07,244 --> 00:22:09,454 "about a group of superheroes?" 330 00:22:09,538 --> 00:22:12,499 So I figured this is my chance to do it my way. 331 00:22:16,086 --> 00:22:17,713 So I went home and wrote. 332 00:22:19,089 --> 00:22:22,384 It occurred to me that it might be fun to put out the kind of stories 333 00:22:22,467 --> 00:22:24,178 that I would enjoy reading myself, 334 00:22:24,261 --> 00:22:27,181 rather than just writing for the eight or nine-year-old. 335 00:22:27,472 --> 00:22:30,893 {\an8}By that time, Jack Kirby had come back. 336 00:22:31,226 --> 00:22:35,314 {\an8}So I said, "Jack, wouldn't it be fun if we have good guys 337 00:22:35,397 --> 00:22:39,109 "who occasionally fall on their faces, who occasionally make mistakes, 338 00:22:39,193 --> 00:22:41,820 "trip at the last minute and let the bad guy get away? 339 00:22:41,904 --> 00:22:45,365 "Wouldn't it be nice to have bad guys that you could almost relate to 340 00:22:45,449 --> 00:22:48,827 "and feel, 'Ah, well, you know, maybe I'd have done the same thing 341 00:22:48,911 --> 00:22:50,621 "'if I was in his position?'" 342 00:22:51,705 --> 00:22:57,211 MAN: Five, four, three, two, one, zero. 343 00:22:59,087 --> 00:23:01,715 STAN: That was really the start of everything. 344 00:23:04,134 --> 00:23:09,389 I came up with four superheroes I called The Fantastic Four. 345 00:23:09,473 --> 00:23:12,142 See what happened, they all went in a rocket ship 346 00:23:13,227 --> 00:23:16,146 and they were affected by cosmic rays. 347 00:23:16,230 --> 00:23:19,900 And the cosmic rays gave them superhuman abilities. 348 00:23:21,276 --> 00:23:24,029 And yet I tried to be realistic about it. 349 00:23:25,155 --> 00:23:28,116 The hero wasn't just a perfect guy, 350 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,078 he was a fellow like me. He talks too much. 351 00:23:31,161 --> 00:23:33,080 He was always boring the others, 352 00:23:33,163 --> 00:23:36,667 because one of the other guys was always saying, "Will you shut up?" 353 00:23:36,750 --> 00:23:42,089 And instead of an obligatory female, who doesn't know who the hero really is, 354 00:23:42,172 --> 00:23:44,675 she was the hero's fiancée, 355 00:23:44,758 --> 00:23:49,388 and she also had a super power that was as good as anyone else's. 356 00:23:51,056 --> 00:23:54,560 The teenager in the group didn't want to be a superhero. 357 00:23:55,853 --> 00:23:58,063 {\an8}Like I would have been when I was a teenager. 358 00:23:58,146 --> 00:24:01,191 {\an8}He wanted to go out with girls and ride his sport car. 359 00:24:01,275 --> 00:24:05,112 And the fourth guy was a monster. Something had happened to him, 360 00:24:05,195 --> 00:24:07,948 and he became very ugly and incredibly strong. 361 00:24:08,031 --> 00:24:11,869 And I used him for both pathos and humor. 362 00:24:11,952 --> 00:24:14,246 He was always fighting with the others, 363 00:24:14,329 --> 00:24:17,916 and he was always picking on the Human Torch that was a teenager, 364 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,378 who was always picking on him, and I got a lot of comedy out of them. 365 00:24:21,837 --> 00:24:25,799 Instead of having them live in a fictional place 366 00:24:25,883 --> 00:24:28,510 like Metropolis or Gotham City, 367 00:24:28,594 --> 00:24:31,013 I plunked 'em right down in New York City. 368 00:24:31,513 --> 00:24:34,683 Because I knew New York City, I could write about New York City, 369 00:24:34,766 --> 00:24:37,102 and I figured why not let 'em live in a real place? 370 00:24:37,769 --> 00:24:39,271 And one day it occurred to me, 371 00:24:39,354 --> 00:24:42,816 it would be fun to show that they lost all their money. 372 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:46,069 I don't think that had ever happened in any other comic book, 373 00:24:46,153 --> 00:24:49,740 where a superhero group got kicked out of their headquarters 374 00:24:49,823 --> 00:24:51,533 'cause they couldn't pay the rent. 375 00:24:52,326 --> 00:24:56,163 I tried to keep everything as realistic as possible 376 00:24:56,246 --> 00:24:59,541 even though it was just a superhero comic. 377 00:25:06,340 --> 00:25:09,843 For the first decade or two, at the comic book company 378 00:25:09,927 --> 00:25:13,639 we never received fan mail, and I was sure these books are being published 379 00:25:13,722 --> 00:25:16,183 and destroyed somewhere, and that's the end of it. 380 00:25:16,266 --> 00:25:17,726 (AUDIENCE LAUGHING) 381 00:25:17,809 --> 00:25:19,770 I'm exaggerating. 382 00:25:19,853 --> 00:25:22,856 About once a year we'd get a letter, somebody would write, 383 00:25:23,690 --> 00:25:26,485 "Hey, I bought one of your books and there's a staple missing. 384 00:25:26,568 --> 00:25:27,778 "I want my money back." 385 00:25:28,820 --> 00:25:31,615 But all of a sudden, with The Fantastic Four, 386 00:25:31,698 --> 00:25:34,701 {\an8}we really got mail, we really had readers who said something. 387 00:25:36,036 --> 00:25:39,456 We were getting write-ups in newspapers and magazines, 388 00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:42,042 and people were asking me to do interviews. 389 00:25:42,709 --> 00:25:46,171 I began to realize we have a whole new audience. 390 00:25:47,339 --> 00:25:50,008 At that time we were calling the company Atlas. 391 00:25:50,467 --> 00:25:52,094 I said we gotta get a new name, 392 00:25:52,177 --> 00:25:55,305 these aren't the same things we were doing before. 393 00:25:56,098 --> 00:25:58,934 And Martin and I came up with the name Marvel. 394 00:26:00,686 --> 00:26:02,312 {\an8}That had been the name 395 00:26:02,396 --> 00:26:04,815 of the first comic book he had ever done, 396 00:26:04,898 --> 00:26:07,693 and I thought it was a great word. 397 00:26:07,776 --> 00:26:10,904 There's so much you can do with the word Marvel, 398 00:26:10,988 --> 00:26:15,742 {\an8}I used expressions like "Remember, gang, make mine marvel," 399 00:26:15,826 --> 00:26:19,329 {\an8}or "Welcome to The Marvel age of comics!" 400 00:26:19,413 --> 00:26:21,290 Or "Marvel moves on." 401 00:26:21,373 --> 00:26:24,334 I mean, it's the kind of name you can do a lot with. 402 00:26:25,377 --> 00:26:27,713 That's when everything changed for us. 403 00:26:29,590 --> 00:26:33,969 I've started realizing, to most people the most important thing 404 00:26:34,052 --> 00:26:38,140 is being entertained, getting pleasure out of something. 405 00:26:39,975 --> 00:26:42,144 And then, I realized it applies to me, too. 406 00:26:44,021 --> 00:26:48,483 And I figured maybe what I'm doing isn't really unimportant. 407 00:26:49,026 --> 00:26:53,697 Maybe entertainment is one of the most important things, 408 00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:57,159 because there are so many bad things in the world, 409 00:26:57,242 --> 00:27:01,246 that if you can entertain somebody for a while, it's a good thing. 410 00:27:11,507 --> 00:27:14,885 So then, instead of quitting, like I wanted to, 411 00:27:14,968 --> 00:27:19,890 I decided that I could make a big difference writing superhero books. 412 00:27:20,432 --> 00:27:22,518 I thought I could have a lot of fun with this 413 00:27:22,601 --> 00:27:24,645 and get some real writing in it. 414 00:27:24,728 --> 00:27:27,189 And I used the philosophy of 415 00:27:27,272 --> 00:27:30,108 what would I like to read if I were reading a book. 416 00:27:32,027 --> 00:27:36,532 When I was a kid, one of the books that I read was Jekyll and Hyde. 417 00:27:37,741 --> 00:27:40,953 So I wanted to take from Jekyll and Hyde 418 00:27:41,036 --> 00:27:44,998 where he could change from a normal person into the monster. 419 00:27:48,126 --> 00:27:52,297 And I always liked the Frankenstein movie, the old one with Karloff. 420 00:27:52,881 --> 00:27:55,342 I always felt the monster is really the good guy. 421 00:27:55,425 --> 00:27:56,885 He didn't wanna hurt anybody. 422 00:27:58,011 --> 00:28:00,222 So I thought it would be fun to get a monster 423 00:28:00,305 --> 00:28:03,225 who was really a good guy, but nobody knew that. 424 00:28:05,102 --> 00:28:07,896 And I remember the conversation I had with Jack Kirby, 425 00:28:07,980 --> 00:28:10,774 and I said, "Jack, we're gonna do a monster 426 00:28:10,858 --> 00:28:14,528 "but I want you to draw me a sympathetic monster. 427 00:28:14,611 --> 00:28:18,365 "Kind of, a good-looking monster that a reader can take to." 428 00:28:18,448 --> 00:28:23,036 And as I said it, I realized how stupid it sounded, but Jack never failed. 429 00:28:25,205 --> 00:28:26,498 {\an8}Hulk's in all of us. 430 00:28:27,249 --> 00:28:30,294 {\an8}I don't think monsters zero in on anyone in particular. 431 00:28:30,377 --> 00:28:35,424 {\an8}I think that's why they are generally pitied more than feared. 432 00:28:35,883 --> 00:28:38,886 I felt that monsters, in some way, had problems. 433 00:28:39,553 --> 00:28:43,098 Monsters, in human or inhuman form, are inevitably involved 434 00:28:43,182 --> 00:28:46,977 in some sort of conflict in which anybody can get hurt. 435 00:28:49,021 --> 00:28:51,440 If you read any dramatic news story, 436 00:28:51,523 --> 00:28:55,444 you'll find that the most dramatic part about 'em was that 437 00:28:55,903 --> 00:28:57,654 inside a human being 438 00:28:57,738 --> 00:29:01,742 there are some sort of problems that we're constantly trying to solve. 439 00:29:03,076 --> 00:29:07,456 STAN: One of life's great lessons that I have learned is, 440 00:29:07,539 --> 00:29:12,502 {\an8}don't try to please a certain segment of the public, don't try to please them, 441 00:29:13,295 --> 00:29:16,006 'cause you don't really know them, nobody knows them, 442 00:29:16,673 --> 00:29:18,217 but you know yourself. 443 00:29:18,717 --> 00:29:20,469 Try to please yourself. 444 00:29:20,552 --> 00:29:22,763 At least that's what happened to us at Marvel. 445 00:29:22,846 --> 00:29:26,808 We started writing stories that amused us. 446 00:29:26,892 --> 00:29:28,894 We started to say, "Hey, wouldn't it be fun 447 00:29:28,977 --> 00:29:32,189 "if we, you know, had a green-skinned monster and we call him the Hulk"? 448 00:29:32,272 --> 00:29:35,317 Wow, you know, and we forgot about the audience. 449 00:29:35,859 --> 00:29:37,319 We forgot about the public. 450 00:29:37,402 --> 00:29:41,156 We suddenly started having fun. The artists and me. 451 00:29:54,878 --> 00:29:58,257 {\an8}I came to New York in '63. 452 00:29:59,299 --> 00:30:04,555 {\an8}And I went on job interviews, and one of them was meeting Stan, 453 00:30:05,097 --> 00:30:09,518 {\an8}and he needed a gal Friday, which meant secretary, 454 00:30:09,601 --> 00:30:12,354 {\an8}only you couldn't type or take shorthand. 455 00:30:14,022 --> 00:30:19,278 Stan was always an upbeat person, even maybe when sales weren't going well. 456 00:30:19,361 --> 00:30:22,573 You know, if someone was in trouble, he always gave them a break. 457 00:30:22,656 --> 00:30:26,243 On the deadline, or they needed money. 458 00:30:26,326 --> 00:30:29,413 I never saw him angry. 459 00:30:30,831 --> 00:30:33,584 Not a whiner, not a complainer. 460 00:30:33,667 --> 00:30:36,753 If something's wrong, "Let's fix it." 461 00:30:38,881 --> 00:30:42,801 The job entailed opening the fan mail, 462 00:30:42,885 --> 00:30:46,263 and then making little cards and sending cards to the kids. 463 00:30:47,931 --> 00:30:49,141 Then, of course, 464 00:30:49,224 --> 00:30:52,603 superheroes started getting bigger so there was more mail. 465 00:30:54,146 --> 00:30:57,858 {\an8}You know, people were actually spending time writing these letters. 466 00:30:59,151 --> 00:31:03,614 It sort of developed gradually, that there was such a movement. 467 00:31:03,697 --> 00:31:05,782 {\an8}You know, the kids were so interested. 468 00:31:06,533 --> 00:31:08,368 {\an8}We were getting so many letters. 469 00:31:08,452 --> 00:31:12,039 Stan said, "Maybe we should have a little fan club." 470 00:31:12,581 --> 00:31:16,126 We started The Merry Marvel Marching Society. 471 00:31:16,585 --> 00:31:20,797 You got a little card, you got a button, 472 00:31:21,006 --> 00:31:24,384 probably some stickers and a little record. 473 00:31:25,302 --> 00:31:28,555 They got a record of The Merry Marvel Marching Society. 474 00:31:32,392 --> 00:31:36,355 Okay, out there in Marvel-land, face front, this is Stan Lee speaking. 475 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,233 You've probably never heard a record like this before, 476 00:31:39,316 --> 00:31:41,527 because no one would be nutty enough to make one 477 00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:43,403 with a bunch of offbeat artists, 478 00:31:43,487 --> 00:31:45,113 so anything is liable to happen. 479 00:31:45,531 --> 00:31:47,741 KIRBY: Hey, who made you a Disc Jockey, Lee? 480 00:31:47,824 --> 00:31:51,119 STAN: Well, well, Jolly Jack Kirby. Say a few words to the fans, Jackson. 481 00:31:51,203 --> 00:31:52,746 KIRBY: Okay, a few words. 482 00:31:53,330 --> 00:31:56,041 STAN: Look, pal, I'll take care of the humor around here. 483 00:31:56,124 --> 00:31:59,670 KIRBY: You? You've been using the same gags over and over for years. 484 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:02,673 STEINBERG: Oh, Stan? Do you have a few minutes? 485 00:32:02,756 --> 00:32:04,758 STAN: For our fabulous gal Friday? 486 00:32:04,842 --> 00:32:07,261 Sure, say hello to the fans, Flo Steinberg. 487 00:32:07,344 --> 00:32:10,347 STEINBERG: Hello, fans, it's very nice to meet you. 488 00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:11,431 (FOOTSTEPS APPROACHING) 489 00:32:11,515 --> 00:32:13,326 STAN: Hey. What's all that commotion out there? 490 00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:14,977 KIRBY: Why, it's shy Steve Ditko. 491 00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:17,479 He heard you're making a record and he's got mic fright. 492 00:32:17,563 --> 00:32:20,190 - STAN: Out the window again? - (GLASS BREAKING) 493 00:32:20,315 --> 00:32:22,776 You know, I'm beginning to think he is Spider-Man. 494 00:32:23,193 --> 00:32:27,281 MAN: (SINGING) You belong, you belong You belong, you belong 495 00:32:27,364 --> 00:32:31,034 To the Merry Marvel Marching Society 496 00:32:31,118 --> 00:32:35,706 March along, march along To the song of the Merry... 497 00:32:36,373 --> 00:32:40,252 Shall I tell you a little bit, a very little bit, 'cause it can get dull, 498 00:32:40,335 --> 00:32:42,337 even duller than what you've been hearing, 499 00:32:42,421 --> 00:32:45,382 about the way we write and draw these scripts? 500 00:32:45,966 --> 00:32:49,469 In the beginning, I was writing just about all the stories, 501 00:32:49,553 --> 00:32:54,391 and as we kept adding book after book, I couldn't keep up with all the artists, 502 00:32:54,474 --> 00:32:57,561 {\an8}so I'd be writing a script, let's say, for Jack Kirby. 503 00:32:57,644 --> 00:33:00,063 {\an8}Suddenly, Steve Ditko would walk in and he'd say, 504 00:33:00,147 --> 00:33:02,941 "Hey, Stan, I finished my last job, I need another one." 505 00:33:03,025 --> 00:33:05,611 So, out of sheer desperation I said to him, 506 00:33:05,694 --> 00:33:09,907 "Let me just give you a plot, you go on home and draw it, 507 00:33:09,990 --> 00:33:12,159 "any way you want. Bring it in to me, 508 00:33:12,242 --> 00:33:15,245 "and I'll put in the dialogue and the captions." 509 00:33:15,329 --> 00:33:17,331 It started as an emergency measure, 510 00:33:17,414 --> 00:33:21,710 but I began to realize, this is a great way to do it. 511 00:33:23,879 --> 00:33:27,007 Very often in the office when I'm describing a scene or something, 512 00:33:27,090 --> 00:33:28,800 I'd go storming around the office, 513 00:33:28,884 --> 00:33:31,970 and I would think anybody looking in on a story conference 514 00:33:32,054 --> 00:33:36,141 at our place would think they're watching some silent movie being filmed. 515 00:33:36,225 --> 00:33:37,744 STEINBERG: When an artist would come in 516 00:33:37,768 --> 00:33:40,062 and they would be working on the plot together, 517 00:33:40,145 --> 00:33:42,814 they would act it out and Stan would jump on the desk 518 00:33:42,898 --> 00:33:46,693 and run around on the desk, and you know, act the part of the superhero. 519 00:33:46,777 --> 00:33:49,696 They would brainstorm and there'd be all this noise. 520 00:33:49,780 --> 00:33:51,281 Sometimes if I were on the phone, 521 00:33:51,365 --> 00:33:54,910 I'd have to yell in there, "Keep it down, keep it down." 522 00:33:55,410 --> 00:33:58,288 STAN: Jack and I have gotten to work so well together, 523 00:33:58,372 --> 00:34:01,875 that our plotting session will be something like, 524 00:34:01,959 --> 00:34:06,505 "Hey, in the next Fantastic Four, Jack, let's let the villain be Doctor Doom." 525 00:34:06,588 --> 00:34:09,258 "Where did he come from? Where did we leave off with him?" 526 00:34:09,341 --> 00:34:12,719 And I'll say, "Oh, yeah, he was fading off into another universe. 527 00:34:12,803 --> 00:34:14,721 "Find some way to bring him back, Jack, 528 00:34:14,805 --> 00:34:17,683 "and then we'll have him attack the Fantastic Four, and then, 529 00:34:17,766 --> 00:34:21,270 "let's let the story end with him running off 530 00:34:21,353 --> 00:34:23,397 "and eloping with Sue Storm or something." 531 00:34:24,273 --> 00:34:26,358 Jack will say "Fine" and he goes off, 532 00:34:26,441 --> 00:34:28,694 and by the time he brings the artwork back, 533 00:34:28,777 --> 00:34:30,445 it might be that particular plot 534 00:34:30,529 --> 00:34:33,073 or he might have changed fifty million things. 535 00:34:33,866 --> 00:34:36,743 So he doesn't know exactly what I'm gonna write, 536 00:34:36,827 --> 00:34:38,620 what words I'm gonna put in their mouths. 537 00:34:38,704 --> 00:34:43,959 I don't know what he's gonna draw. The whole thing is virtual chaos. 538 00:34:44,042 --> 00:34:47,629 But somehow when it gets together, it seems to hold together pretty well, 539 00:34:47,713 --> 00:34:49,590 and we kinda like working this way. 540 00:34:50,465 --> 00:34:52,801 It isn't the artist, it isn't the writer. 541 00:34:52,885 --> 00:34:54,720 It's the artist and the writer. 542 00:34:54,803 --> 00:34:56,513 It's pictures and stories, 543 00:34:56,597 --> 00:35:01,435 and when they blend together perfectly, then you've got a great comic. 544 00:35:04,354 --> 00:35:09,193 Working that way as a team, it became known as the Marvel Method. 545 00:35:18,785 --> 00:35:23,749 Joan and I, we got a little apartment in New York on 94th Street. 546 00:35:24,374 --> 00:35:26,210 We stayed there for a year or two. 547 00:35:26,919 --> 00:35:28,670 And then, Joan got pregnant. 548 00:35:29,379 --> 00:35:32,466 We decided we ought to move to a house to have the baby 549 00:35:32,549 --> 00:35:34,009 and we moved to Long Island. 550 00:35:37,012 --> 00:35:40,140 We got a little house, and we could just barely afford it. 551 00:35:41,975 --> 00:35:44,394 {\an8}We had a daughter, Joan C. Lee. 552 00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:49,066 We're so vain! We decided to name our daughter Joan, 553 00:35:49,149 --> 00:35:52,444 and if we had had a son, we'd have called him Stan. 554 00:35:53,529 --> 00:35:56,949 In fact, we did have another baby, a girl, we couldn't call her Stan, 555 00:35:57,032 --> 00:36:03,497 so called her Jan, but unfortunately, she died a few hours after she was born, 556 00:36:04,665 --> 00:36:06,708 and Joan couldn't have any other kids, 557 00:36:08,502 --> 00:36:11,296 so we spoiled Joan rotten. 558 00:36:12,756 --> 00:36:14,925 {\an8}I think she's a mixture of both of us. 559 00:36:15,008 --> 00:36:16,260 {\an8}She's very talented. 560 00:36:17,594 --> 00:36:21,682 {\an8}Think it's difficult being a child of two such strong parents, 561 00:36:21,765 --> 00:36:24,184 {\an8}I think that's always difficult, and we are. 562 00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:27,312 STAN: After a while we called her J.C. 563 00:36:27,396 --> 00:36:30,190 'cause our daughter's name was Joan C. Lee. 564 00:36:30,315 --> 00:36:33,735 The C standing for Celia, which was my mother's name. 565 00:36:34,194 --> 00:36:36,530 And Joanie was Joan B. Lee. 566 00:36:40,784 --> 00:36:43,871 My wife and I are really so close. 567 00:36:43,954 --> 00:36:47,040 She's the greatest. I mean, she's an incredible woman. 568 00:36:47,666 --> 00:36:52,629 My wife, I think, is incredibly beautiful, smart, charming, fun to be with. 569 00:36:52,713 --> 00:36:56,425 When we used to dance, I let her lead. She was so good. 570 00:36:56,508 --> 00:36:58,051 I tried to keep up with her. 571 00:36:58,135 --> 00:37:01,763 So I tried to put those qualities in all the women I wrote about. 572 00:37:02,472 --> 00:37:09,021 Mary Jane, for example, was very peppy and effervescent and kinda hip and cool. 573 00:37:09,730 --> 00:37:10,898 That was my wife. 574 00:37:11,857 --> 00:37:13,192 She's the perfect wife for me 575 00:37:13,275 --> 00:37:17,362 because I spend so much time writing when I'm home, 576 00:37:18,071 --> 00:37:23,035 and Joanie, she can always keep herself busy, which is wonderful. 577 00:37:23,118 --> 00:37:26,163 So I don't feel guilty when I'm in my room writing. 578 00:37:28,457 --> 00:37:31,376 JOAN: He's a vanishing breed. There are no men like Stan today. 579 00:37:31,460 --> 00:37:33,962 He's an endangered species. One has to protect him. 580 00:37:34,046 --> 00:37:36,256 Because he's blessed with tremendous energy. 581 00:37:36,340 --> 00:37:38,133 He's an ever straight man. 582 00:37:38,258 --> 00:37:40,219 Doesn't take booze, doesn't smoke cigarettes. 583 00:37:40,302 --> 00:37:41,637 And gets up every day and says, 584 00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,097 "Thank God this arm works, and this leg works, 585 00:37:44,181 --> 00:37:45,349 "and life is great." 586 00:37:45,432 --> 00:37:47,518 He's been a very good husband. 587 00:37:48,477 --> 00:37:50,917 INTERVIEWER: So, what's your secret for a successful marriage? 588 00:37:51,438 --> 00:37:54,024 JOAN: He's my best friend and I'm his best friend... 589 00:37:54,107 --> 00:37:56,235 - liking each other. - Okay. 590 00:37:56,485 --> 00:37:58,904 You know, it isn't that kind of oh, love, love, love. 591 00:37:58,987 --> 00:38:01,782 Kids kinda fall in love and think you're gonna be in bed all day. 592 00:38:01,865 --> 00:38:04,076 That's not what marriage is. Marriage is like a farm. 593 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:07,329 You have to get up every day and work at it every single day. 594 00:38:07,621 --> 00:38:11,917 He's still the most amazing person I've ever met in my life. 595 00:38:18,882 --> 00:38:21,093 (ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC PLAYING ON RADIO) 596 00:38:21,176 --> 00:38:22,219 (RADIO STATIONS SWITCHING) 597 00:38:22,302 --> 00:38:25,430 MAN ON RADIO: The early teens are years of upheaval and turmoil. 598 00:38:28,225 --> 00:38:29,661 REPORTER: Do you think that teenagers 599 00:38:29,685 --> 00:38:31,937 are any different today from how they used to be? 600 00:38:32,563 --> 00:38:33,564 Yes, I do. 601 00:38:34,231 --> 00:38:37,943 Do you think teenagers today are better or worse than they used to be? 602 00:38:38,026 --> 00:38:39,361 I think they're worse. 603 00:38:40,028 --> 00:38:45,951 Today, we've come to a time in history when there definitely is a generation gap. 604 00:38:46,034 --> 00:38:49,788 TEEN BOY: There is a teenage world, you know. If the adults don't like it 605 00:38:49,872 --> 00:38:51,915 {\an8}that's only because they don't want a part of it. 606 00:38:51,999 --> 00:38:53,959 STAN: Anything that can be done 607 00:38:54,042 --> 00:38:58,463 to help present the point of view of these young people 608 00:38:58,547 --> 00:39:01,300 without hostility, with respect, 609 00:39:01,383 --> 00:39:03,677 would be a very beneficial thing. 610 00:39:05,470 --> 00:39:07,431 When I was 17-years-old, 611 00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:10,559 I was an editor, art director, and head writer, 612 00:39:11,518 --> 00:39:15,480 but at that time, the teenager wasn't respected. 613 00:39:15,564 --> 00:39:17,983 So I figured, hell, I'm gonna change that. 614 00:39:18,775 --> 00:39:21,904 Why not have a teenager who's a hero? 615 00:39:21,987 --> 00:39:24,406 Why couldn't a teenager have a super power? 616 00:39:24,489 --> 00:39:25,574 I loved that idea. 617 00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:31,705 I felt that I would like to, for once, 618 00:39:31,788 --> 00:39:37,169 do a strip about a teenager who isn't a sidekick, but he is the hero. 619 00:39:37,878 --> 00:39:41,256 And I wanna make him like a real teenager. 620 00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:44,551 He's not a guy who can do anything and never has a problem. 621 00:39:45,844 --> 00:39:47,638 But I had to come up with a name. 622 00:39:49,306 --> 00:39:54,770 As a kid, I had loved a pulp magazine named The Spider. 623 00:39:55,145 --> 00:39:59,024 The most dramatic thing I could think of, the cover of this magazine, 624 00:39:59,107 --> 00:40:03,612 it said, "The Spider: Master of Men." 625 00:40:03,695 --> 00:40:06,448 Somehow, to me, at the age of nine, 626 00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:09,493 "Master of Men, oh, I'd love to be a..." 627 00:40:09,576 --> 00:40:12,079 You know, who wouldn't want to be a master of men? 628 00:40:12,162 --> 00:40:13,914 {\an8}And he had a ring, 629 00:40:13,997 --> 00:40:18,544 {\an8}and he'd punch a bad guy in the face and it had a little spider on the ring, 630 00:40:18,627 --> 00:40:22,047 and it would leave a spider mark on the guy's jaw. 631 00:40:24,049 --> 00:40:26,051 That name always stuck with me. 632 00:40:29,179 --> 00:40:31,014 Then I thought why not Spider-Man? 633 00:40:32,432 --> 00:40:34,393 (TYPEWRITER CLACKING) 634 00:40:45,612 --> 00:40:48,407 I walked in to the publisher Martin Goodman 635 00:40:48,490 --> 00:40:51,201 and I said "I have an idea for a book called Spider-Man 636 00:40:51,285 --> 00:40:54,204 "about a teenager who has a lot of problems." 637 00:40:54,705 --> 00:40:57,875 This time, Martin wouldn't go along with me, he said, "Stan, 638 00:40:58,375 --> 00:40:59,835 "I'm surprised at you. 639 00:40:59,918 --> 00:41:05,090 "And a hero can't be a teenager. A teenager can only be a sidekick. 640 00:41:05,174 --> 00:41:08,093 "And you say you want him to have problems? 641 00:41:08,177 --> 00:41:10,429 "Don't you know what a superhero is?" 642 00:41:12,639 --> 00:41:15,309 He was the boss and I couldn't put Spider-Man out. 643 00:41:18,353 --> 00:41:22,316 But I just felt I had to get it out of my system. 644 00:41:23,692 --> 00:41:26,612 Months later, we had a book we were going to kill 645 00:41:26,695 --> 00:41:29,281 called Amazing Fantasy. 646 00:41:29,364 --> 00:41:30,866 When you drop a book, 647 00:41:30,949 --> 00:41:34,578 nobody cares what you put in the last issue, 'cause you're killing it. 648 00:41:34,953 --> 00:41:37,539 So just to get it out of my system, 649 00:41:37,623 --> 00:41:40,125 I put Spider-Man and I feature him on the cover. 650 00:41:41,376 --> 00:41:43,837 I'm lucky Martin didn't fire me on the spot. 651 00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:45,964 But in that story, 652 00:41:46,340 --> 00:41:50,594 I tried to heap as many problems as I could on poor Peter Parker. 653 00:41:50,677 --> 00:41:56,308 Because I feel most people, even people who seem to be happy, have problems. 654 00:41:57,017 --> 00:42:00,395 Spider-Man's got the strength of 25 men 655 00:42:00,479 --> 00:42:05,317 and can walk on walls and swing from building to building on his own web, 656 00:42:05,692 --> 00:42:08,612 but he still can't go out and chase a villain 657 00:42:08,695 --> 00:42:12,491 because his old Aunt May says, "It's raining out 658 00:42:12,574 --> 00:42:15,077 "and you might catch cold. Better stay home tonight." 659 00:42:15,869 --> 00:42:19,456 I had not read any other superheroes 660 00:42:19,540 --> 00:42:23,460 who felt they wished they could quit being a superhero. 661 00:42:24,127 --> 00:42:27,756 I made him a guy who is very introspective. 662 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,968 He questions, "Why am I doing this?" 663 00:42:34,012 --> 00:42:35,556 The book went on sale. 664 00:42:35,639 --> 00:42:38,517 Later, when the sales figures came in, 665 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,395 Martin came running into my office, he said, "Stan! 666 00:42:41,478 --> 00:42:45,774 "Do you remember that character of yours, Spider-Man, that we both liked so much? 667 00:42:46,525 --> 00:42:48,443 "Why don't you do a series of him?" 668 00:42:52,114 --> 00:42:55,158 After that, I felt I can do anything. 669 00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:05,752 There were always good artists around. 670 00:43:06,879 --> 00:43:09,923 Jack and Steve, both were terribly unique. 671 00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,555 Conceptually, Jack's artwork is very much like a good, exciting movie. 672 00:43:16,638 --> 00:43:23,103 Jack has a way of hitting the high point, visually, in every situation he's drawing. 673 00:43:23,187 --> 00:43:26,565 {\an8}He'll draw the extreme of that situation. 674 00:43:26,648 --> 00:43:30,360 Whatever is the most exciting element, he will draw that. 675 00:43:30,444 --> 00:43:34,489 {\an8}And consequently his artwork is always fascinating to watch. 676 00:43:36,575 --> 00:43:41,455 Steve Ditko, he drew characters, in many ways, the opposite of Jack. 677 00:43:41,538 --> 00:43:45,375 Steve's artwork, I always felt, was very low-key 678 00:43:45,459 --> 00:43:49,630 and he had a way of telling a story realistically. 679 00:43:49,713 --> 00:43:52,382 After a while, you'd forget you're reading a comic book 680 00:43:52,466 --> 00:43:54,593 and you'd think this was really happening. 681 00:43:55,928 --> 00:43:59,890 Jack Kirby was probably the greatest comic book artist around, 682 00:43:59,973 --> 00:44:03,310 and I wanted Jack, originally, to do the Spider-Man, 683 00:44:03,393 --> 00:44:05,771 but I didn't want Spider-Man to look heroic. 684 00:44:05,854 --> 00:44:09,066 I wanted him to be just a typical nebbishy kind of guy, 685 00:44:09,191 --> 00:44:10,859 and I mentioned that to Jack, 686 00:44:10,943 --> 00:44:15,155 but Jack was so used to drawing Captain America and characters like that. 687 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,450 When he gave me the first couple of pages, I said, "No, that... 688 00:44:18,534 --> 00:44:20,285 "You got him looking too heroic." 689 00:44:20,369 --> 00:44:23,705 So I gave the strip to Steve. It didn't matter to Jack. 690 00:44:23,789 --> 00:44:25,415 Nobody knew it would be a big strip 691 00:44:25,499 --> 00:44:27,751 and Jack was busy doing all the other books. 692 00:44:27,834 --> 00:44:30,045 Steve was just perfect for it. 693 00:44:30,128 --> 00:44:33,340 He got that feeling of an average guy 694 00:44:33,423 --> 00:44:35,801 who turned into a hero and still had problems. 695 00:44:38,804 --> 00:44:41,390 And lo, a legend was born. 696 00:44:47,312 --> 00:44:50,983 BOY: Here's our special guest, Stan Lee. 697 00:44:51,066 --> 00:44:52,985 How about Spider-Man? Know about Spider-Man? 698 00:44:53,068 --> 00:44:54,069 KIDS: Yeah. 699 00:44:54,152 --> 00:44:56,071 - How about the Hulk? You know the Hulk? - Yeah. 700 00:44:56,154 --> 00:44:57,906 Which one is your favorite? 701 00:44:57,990 --> 00:45:01,785 Oh, gee. You know, that's almost like asking a parent who's his favorite child? 702 00:45:01,869 --> 00:45:03,412 I think I love them all. 703 00:45:03,495 --> 00:45:06,373 But maybe I like Spider-Man a little bit better, 704 00:45:06,456 --> 00:45:08,458 and maybe it's because he's just so popular. 705 00:45:08,542 --> 00:45:09,835 BOY: In comics, is it usually 706 00:45:09,918 --> 00:45:13,046 the big, strong, and ugly characters that are most successful? 707 00:45:14,047 --> 00:45:15,424 No. You know what it is? 708 00:45:15,507 --> 00:45:18,844 It's the ones that are the most interesting 709 00:45:18,927 --> 00:45:22,389 and the ones that the readers of comics can most relate to. 710 00:45:22,472 --> 00:45:26,018 It doesn't matter if the character is ugly, or is handsome, 711 00:45:26,101 --> 00:45:28,478 or is weak, or is strong. 712 00:45:28,562 --> 00:45:32,399 If there's something about the character that makes you like the character 713 00:45:32,482 --> 00:45:34,651 and care about the character, 714 00:45:34,735 --> 00:45:38,238 the word for that is, you have to empathize with the character. 715 00:45:39,698 --> 00:45:43,827 Why do there have to be superheroes and what makes a good one? 716 00:45:43,911 --> 00:45:47,164 What ingredients does it take to have like a Spider-Man or a Superman? 717 00:45:47,247 --> 00:45:48,832 The one important thing is empathy. 718 00:45:48,916 --> 00:45:51,668 It has to be a superhero the reader cares about. 719 00:45:51,752 --> 00:45:54,379 One thing we've tried to do at Marvel, 720 00:45:54,463 --> 00:45:58,884 we have tried to have superheroes that are more realistic, 721 00:45:58,967 --> 00:46:00,177 more flesh and blood 722 00:46:00,260 --> 00:46:04,139 and it prepares the young reader for the fact that 723 00:46:04,223 --> 00:46:06,975 - when he gets out into the world... - MAN: To climb walls. 724 00:46:07,059 --> 00:46:10,771 He realizes that he doesn't expect his heroes to be perfect. 725 00:46:12,981 --> 00:46:16,109 There was a time when Spider-Man received a check 726 00:46:16,193 --> 00:46:19,821 as a reward for something he had done, made out to Spider-Man 727 00:46:19,905 --> 00:46:23,283 and he went to a bank to cash it in his Spider-Man costume 728 00:46:23,367 --> 00:46:26,370 and the teller said, "Well, I can't cash this check, 729 00:46:26,453 --> 00:46:28,330 - "I need identification." - (WOMAN LAUGHS) 730 00:46:28,413 --> 00:46:30,749 And he said, "Oh, I'm wearing a Spider-Man costume." 731 00:46:30,832 --> 00:46:33,210 He said, "Anybody could wear a Spider-Man costume." 732 00:46:35,420 --> 00:46:37,589 He was never able to cash the check. 733 00:46:40,217 --> 00:46:45,264 I wanted those books, more than anything else, to be fun. 734 00:46:45,347 --> 00:46:49,685 And I wanted everything in them to attract the readers' attention 735 00:46:49,768 --> 00:46:52,437 and to cause the readers to talk. 736 00:46:53,230 --> 00:46:54,773 And I wanted to do whatever I could 737 00:46:54,857 --> 00:46:58,861 to set our books aside and apart from the rest. 738 00:46:59,611 --> 00:47:01,113 I was just having fun. 739 00:47:01,196 --> 00:47:03,240 Anything I thought of I said, "That's a good idea. 740 00:47:03,323 --> 00:47:06,118 "I'm gonna write, 'The world's greatest comic.' What the hell." 741 00:47:06,910 --> 00:47:11,373 INTERVIEWER: You describe what you call the wild wondrous world of Marvel Comics. 742 00:47:11,456 --> 00:47:13,083 What kind of world is it? 743 00:47:13,166 --> 00:47:17,754 Basically, we think of Marvel Comics as fairy tales for older people. 744 00:47:17,838 --> 00:47:22,301 Actually, I think what we do mostly is improve on the old legends, you see. 745 00:47:22,384 --> 00:47:25,304 We take the best of them and give it a little Marvel touch 746 00:47:25,387 --> 00:47:27,890 and we've got something really indescribable. 747 00:47:32,186 --> 00:47:36,273 Jack and I had already done The Hulk and The Fantastic Four. 748 00:47:36,356 --> 00:47:40,819 And I felt, what can we do to top these other characters? 749 00:47:40,903 --> 00:47:44,239 And it occurred to me, we hadn't done a god. 750 00:47:44,865 --> 00:47:49,077 Most people had read all about the Greek gods and the Roman gods 751 00:47:49,161 --> 00:47:53,749 but the Norse Gods weren't as well known. So I figured 752 00:47:53,832 --> 00:47:55,792 why not do the Norse Gods? 753 00:47:55,876 --> 00:47:58,921 And I thought Thor was the most dramatic of all 754 00:47:59,004 --> 00:48:03,342 'cause he had that magic hammer, and he was the most powerful one. 755 00:48:03,425 --> 00:48:06,303 And he was the God of Thunder. 756 00:48:10,724 --> 00:48:12,893 I thought it would just be another book, 757 00:48:12,976 --> 00:48:16,188 and I think that Jack has turned him into one of the greatest 758 00:48:16,855 --> 00:48:19,608 fictional characters there are. 759 00:48:19,942 --> 00:48:22,945 {\an8}KIRBY: All through the years, certainly, I've had a kind of affection 760 00:48:23,028 --> 00:48:25,656 {\an8}for any mythological type of character, 761 00:48:25,739 --> 00:48:28,116 and here Stan gave me the opportunity to draw one 762 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,453 and I wasn't gonna draw back from really letting myself go. 763 00:48:31,537 --> 00:48:35,249 So I did. And the world became a stage for me. 764 00:48:35,332 --> 00:48:37,459 I gave the Norse characters twists 765 00:48:37,543 --> 00:48:40,504 that they never had in anybody's imagination, 766 00:48:40,963 --> 00:48:43,423 and somehow it turned out to be a lot of fun 767 00:48:43,507 --> 00:48:45,300 and I really enjoyed doing it. 768 00:48:50,347 --> 00:48:53,809 It occurred to us that what we do is we create our own mythology, 769 00:48:53,892 --> 00:48:55,727 and we create our own universes. 770 00:48:56,770 --> 00:49:00,858 {\an8}One thing I think that we've innovated that has been pretty successful 771 00:49:00,941 --> 00:49:03,861 {\an8}is overlapping characters and books. 772 00:49:04,361 --> 00:49:07,906 It's like a repertory theatre, where you've got your actors 773 00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:11,702 and you know what they can do, and you can use them as needed. 774 00:49:12,077 --> 00:49:16,582 {\an8}Once we have our cast of characters, whether heroes or villains, 775 00:49:16,665 --> 00:49:19,167 {\an8}it makes it easier for us to base stories, 776 00:49:19,459 --> 00:49:21,587 but we do it because it seems to me that 777 00:49:22,212 --> 00:49:24,631 you enjoy things you're familiar with, 778 00:49:24,715 --> 00:49:27,885 and the readers eventually get to know these characters, 779 00:49:27,968 --> 00:49:31,889 and they're interested in these characters and why just get rid of them? 780 00:49:31,972 --> 00:49:35,309 If we have a villain who fought the Fantastic Four, 781 00:49:35,392 --> 00:49:38,437 why shouldn't he eventually meet another one of our heroes? 782 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,523 Or why shouldn't our heroes meet, as they often do, 783 00:49:41,607 --> 00:49:43,275 and guest star in each other's book? 784 00:49:43,358 --> 00:49:47,362 Because, according to the gospel as preached by Marvel, 785 00:49:47,446 --> 00:49:49,114 they all live in the same world. 786 00:49:55,412 --> 00:49:58,665 MAN ON RADIO: the US has added up to $3 billion and 14,000 men... 787 00:49:58,749 --> 00:49:59,789 (RADIO STATIONS SWITCHING) 788 00:49:59,833 --> 00:50:01,953 America's involvement grows deeper and more dangerous. 789 00:50:02,002 --> 00:50:04,213 STAN: We were very much affected at Marvel 790 00:50:04,296 --> 00:50:07,049 by what was going on in the world around us, 791 00:50:07,674 --> 00:50:11,011 and in Vietnam and what was going on at this time. 792 00:50:12,262 --> 00:50:15,724 I think it's a not only indefensible war, I think it's a ridiculous war. 793 00:50:15,807 --> 00:50:18,769 I agree with the word you used, I think it's an obscene war. 794 00:50:19,853 --> 00:50:23,941 {\an8}Everybody was against the war. The kids in those days hated it. 795 00:50:24,024 --> 00:50:25,901 {\an8}(INDISTINCT SHOUTING) 796 00:50:35,827 --> 00:50:38,247 We have a character called Iron Man. 797 00:50:39,414 --> 00:50:43,043 He's a guy in a big metal suit and he's very powerful 798 00:50:43,126 --> 00:50:45,921 and he has little jets on the bottom of the soles, 799 00:50:46,004 --> 00:50:47,631 which enable him to fly, 800 00:50:47,714 --> 00:50:50,968 and he was supplying weapons to the United States Army 801 00:50:51,051 --> 00:50:52,886 for the Vietnamese war and so forth. 802 00:50:54,888 --> 00:50:58,267 So, how do you make somebody really care about a guy like this? 803 00:51:00,894 --> 00:51:02,896 We made him lovable. 804 00:51:02,980 --> 00:51:06,316 He has a weak heart and he's been injured in battle, 805 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,485 and he really is a good guy. 806 00:51:09,945 --> 00:51:13,740 Our heroes have all sorts of failings and fallacies. 807 00:51:13,824 --> 00:51:17,911 {\an8}They might lose just as often as win if they're fighting with a villain. 808 00:51:18,495 --> 00:51:22,499 And our villains are really adorable. They go right to your hearts. 809 00:51:23,834 --> 00:51:30,048 We learned the villains are usually at least as popular as the heroes are. 810 00:51:30,132 --> 00:51:31,633 They have a great appeal. 811 00:51:32,301 --> 00:51:35,596 We try to give them understandable qualities 812 00:51:35,679 --> 00:51:38,015 and reasons why they are the way they are. 813 00:51:38,098 --> 00:51:40,976 We've even had villains who reformed and became heroes. 814 00:51:41,059 --> 00:51:43,979 After a while, we don't know who the heroes and who the villains are. 815 00:51:44,062 --> 00:51:45,522 There's such a fine line. 816 00:51:48,775 --> 00:51:50,319 And that's the real world. 817 00:51:51,236 --> 00:51:53,906 Things aren't just black and white. 818 00:52:01,121 --> 00:52:05,125 What's happening in comics today? They've grabbed an older readership. 819 00:52:05,209 --> 00:52:08,587 - Yeah! - At Marvel, we have as many college kids 820 00:52:08,670 --> 00:52:10,923 reading our books as we have seven-year-olds. 821 00:52:11,006 --> 00:52:13,759 I rarely hold up books, but this is an interesting book... 822 00:52:13,842 --> 00:52:15,636 - It is. - Well, let him tell about it. 823 00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:17,387 He's a collector who is impartial. 824 00:52:17,471 --> 00:52:20,933 {\an8}I think that anybody, and I say this, 825 00:52:21,016 --> 00:52:23,685 {\an8}anybody could get into that book and get something out of it 826 00:52:23,769 --> 00:52:25,812 and learn something from it. It is a novel 827 00:52:25,896 --> 00:52:27,898 or a Cecil B. DeMille movie or anything else, 828 00:52:27,981 --> 00:52:29,733 only it's done with still pictures. 829 00:52:29,816 --> 00:52:33,070 Why do you say he has to learn? Can't he be entertained by what he reads? 830 00:52:33,153 --> 00:52:35,322 Does he have to read it like a school book? 831 00:52:35,405 --> 00:52:38,033 Can't you be educated and entertained at the same time? 832 00:52:38,116 --> 00:52:41,078 {\an8}We found our readers want to be entertained. 833 00:52:41,161 --> 00:52:44,039 {\an8}They want to lose themselves. They don't wanna be educated. 834 00:52:44,122 --> 00:52:45,749 {\an8}They don't want anything relevant. 835 00:52:45,832 --> 00:52:49,628 I would not recommend Superman or Batman to anyone over 12. 836 00:52:49,711 --> 00:52:50,921 They're nice for kids. 837 00:52:51,004 --> 00:52:55,133 Adults have come to believe there's nothing of value in comics for them, 838 00:52:55,217 --> 00:52:57,052 and there is something of value. 839 00:52:57,135 --> 00:52:59,763 You cannot condemn a medium on the basis of its format. 840 00:53:00,764 --> 00:53:05,352 STAN: The more I realized how influential our books were, 841 00:53:05,435 --> 00:53:09,815 the more I tried to get some moral lessons in the stories. 842 00:53:14,778 --> 00:53:18,907 I don't want to sound like I'm the most moral guy in the world, 843 00:53:18,991 --> 00:53:23,078 but I always felt there were some issues that ought to be addressed. 844 00:53:27,875 --> 00:53:31,503 {\an8}One of the things that is terrible is the fact that 845 00:53:31,587 --> 00:53:34,756 {\an8}so many people dislike 846 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,467 {\an8}and hate other people 847 00:53:37,551 --> 00:53:39,428 {\an8}just because they're different. 848 00:53:42,264 --> 00:53:45,434 I did one story called "The Hate Monger," 849 00:53:45,976 --> 00:53:49,354 {\an8}and it was really a takeoff on the Ku Klux Klan. 850 00:53:50,606 --> 00:53:54,359 {\an8}It had to do with a villain who espoused hatred 851 00:53:54,443 --> 00:53:56,695 of one group of people for another. 852 00:53:58,238 --> 00:54:01,491 I sort of hoped it would give our readers 853 00:54:01,575 --> 00:54:05,662 the idea that all people should be treated the same. 854 00:54:06,830 --> 00:54:11,460 We tried to get that point across in all of the Marvel books. 855 00:54:19,635 --> 00:54:22,304 I wanted to do another superhero group, 856 00:54:23,013 --> 00:54:27,184 and I tried an anti-bigotry theme. 857 00:54:28,060 --> 00:54:31,730 And I thought, how can I give them some power in a different way? 858 00:54:31,813 --> 00:54:37,110 And then it occurred to me. We know that mutations exist in life. 859 00:54:37,736 --> 00:54:41,198 There are five-legged frogs and things like that. 860 00:54:41,323 --> 00:54:46,078 So I'll just give them whatever powers I want and say they mutated that way. 861 00:54:46,495 --> 00:54:48,622 I called them the X-Men. 862 00:54:48,705 --> 00:54:52,709 And our heroes of the X-Men are all different from average humans, 863 00:54:52,793 --> 00:54:58,090 and because they're that different, the general public hates them, 864 00:54:58,173 --> 00:55:02,553 hounds them, harasses them, fears them. 865 00:55:04,847 --> 00:55:09,142 In all of our books, we try to find some little moral 866 00:55:09,226 --> 00:55:11,144 besides running around and fighting. 867 00:55:11,854 --> 00:55:14,273 We have one character called the Silver Surfer. 868 00:55:14,356 --> 00:55:16,733 He's a character from another planet who comes to Earth. 869 00:55:17,276 --> 00:55:19,194 {\an8}Jack is the guy who first drew him. 870 00:55:21,613 --> 00:55:24,074 The Silver Surfer was always philosophizing 871 00:55:24,157 --> 00:55:26,952 and saying things about humans, such as, 872 00:55:27,035 --> 00:55:31,415 "Don't they realize they live in a planet that's a veritable garden of Eden? 873 00:55:31,498 --> 00:55:34,001 "Why do they fight and why are they greedy? 874 00:55:34,084 --> 00:55:35,627 "And why do they have bigotry? 875 00:55:35,711 --> 00:55:37,379 "Why don't they just love each other 876 00:55:37,462 --> 00:55:40,382 "and enjoy this paradise that they've inherited?" 877 00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:45,137 I believe that the world could be a much better world 878 00:55:45,220 --> 00:55:46,722 if we treated each other 879 00:55:46,805 --> 00:55:49,391 with a little more consideration and respect. 880 00:55:50,225 --> 00:55:53,562 If you really want to change things and make 'em better, 881 00:55:53,645 --> 00:55:57,191 you've gotta plunge in. You've gotta be a part of the process. 882 00:55:59,067 --> 00:56:01,904 "With great power comes great responsibility." 883 00:56:06,992 --> 00:56:09,912 I created Black Panther with Jack Kirby. 884 00:56:10,913 --> 00:56:15,250 We just figured that it's about time we had a Black superhero. 885 00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:21,215 After all, there are many, many Black American citizens. 886 00:56:23,634 --> 00:56:29,097 I loved the idea of a Black superhero who lives in Africa 887 00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:34,645 and is the equal of Reed Richards intellectually. 888 00:56:37,523 --> 00:56:40,359 {\an8}FAN: The reason I called is to compliment Marvel Comics 889 00:56:40,484 --> 00:56:44,112 {\an8}because they are the only comic books I've ever seen that have integrated. 890 00:56:44,196 --> 00:56:47,407 {\an8}They recognize the fact that there are more than one race. 891 00:56:47,491 --> 00:56:51,203 STAN: How can you have stories that are supposed to take place in today's world 892 00:56:51,286 --> 00:56:53,997 and not include all the types of people we have 893 00:56:54,081 --> 00:56:56,309 - and the types of situations? - FAN: Yeah, that's just it. 894 00:56:56,333 --> 00:56:58,961 You have a racially mixed background in it. 895 00:56:59,044 --> 00:57:01,588 Well, it's unusual for comics because you haven't seen it 896 00:57:01,672 --> 00:57:03,507 until you've read Marvel Comics. 897 00:57:12,558 --> 00:57:16,186 STAN: We tried to provide stories for older readers 898 00:57:16,270 --> 00:57:20,440 that will also be good for younger kids to read. 899 00:57:20,524 --> 00:57:24,027 If you think about it objectively, it's a totally impossible task, 900 00:57:24,111 --> 00:57:25,863 and I don't know how we've managed. 901 00:57:28,156 --> 00:57:32,911 I got a letter from the Office of Health, Education, and Welfare in Washington, 902 00:57:32,995 --> 00:57:37,374 and they said, "Mr. Lee, recognizing the influence of your comics, 903 00:57:37,457 --> 00:57:41,211 "drugs are a big problem. If you could do an anti-drug story?" 904 00:57:41,295 --> 00:57:43,672 I did a three-issue series. 905 00:57:45,507 --> 00:57:49,303 It had to do with a friend of Spidey's had taken too much of something 906 00:57:49,845 --> 00:57:53,807 and Spider-Man rescues him and says, "You're a jerk for doing that." 907 00:57:53,891 --> 00:57:55,893 And it was part of a bigger story. 908 00:57:56,685 --> 00:58:01,440 So, it didn't look like we were preaching. It was just an incident in a story. 909 00:58:01,690 --> 00:58:05,027 The Comic Code Administration sent the book back and said, 910 00:58:05,110 --> 00:58:08,822 "You can't publish this book. We won't put our seal of approval on." 911 00:58:09,615 --> 00:58:10,616 I said, "Why?" 912 00:58:10,908 --> 00:58:14,369 They said, "Well, according to the rules of the Code Authority, 913 00:58:14,453 --> 00:58:16,830 "you can't mention drugs in a story." 914 00:58:17,915 --> 00:58:20,709 And I said, "Look, we're not telling kids to take drugs. 915 00:58:20,792 --> 00:58:23,295 "This is an anti-drug theme." 916 00:58:23,378 --> 00:58:25,797 "Oh, no, it doesn't matter. You mentioned drugs." 917 00:58:26,340 --> 00:58:29,593 I said, "But the Office of Health, Education and Welfare, 918 00:58:29,676 --> 00:58:32,721 "a government agency, asked us to do it." 919 00:58:32,804 --> 00:58:35,349 "Doesn't matter. You can't mention drugs." 920 00:58:37,434 --> 00:58:40,729 Because we try to show things as they really are, 921 00:58:40,812 --> 00:58:43,815 I had quite a number of arguments with the Comics Code. 922 00:58:44,983 --> 00:58:49,112 I think that the things that people read should prepare them 923 00:58:49,196 --> 00:58:52,491 and initiate them for stepping into the real world. 924 00:58:52,574 --> 00:58:58,997 I feel that morally we are doing a greater service to our younger readers 925 00:58:59,081 --> 00:59:03,961 by showing them that it's best to do your best and to try to be good. 926 00:59:06,213 --> 00:59:09,883 I went to my publisher, Martin Goodman, and I said, 927 00:59:09,967 --> 00:59:12,886 "Martin, this is the story. This is why I did it. 928 00:59:13,428 --> 00:59:17,933 "I would like to publish it without the Code seal of approval." 929 00:59:19,059 --> 00:59:22,938 Well, I was very proud of our publisher because he said, 930 00:59:23,230 --> 00:59:25,941 "Absolutely, Stan. You go ahead and do that." 931 00:59:27,985 --> 00:59:33,365 So, all of those three issues went on sale without the seal of approval. 932 00:59:34,241 --> 00:59:37,244 And the world did not come to an end. 933 00:59:38,954 --> 00:59:41,290 {\an8}We got letters from church groups, 934 00:59:41,456 --> 00:59:43,834 parent-teachers... Everybody loved it. 935 00:59:47,421 --> 00:59:50,716 (CHATTERING INDISTINCTLY) 936 00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:53,218 A youngster's mind is like a sponge. 937 00:59:53,343 --> 00:59:55,721 And I really don't think there's anything 938 00:59:56,471 --> 00:59:57,514 that's too tough 939 00:59:58,390 --> 01:00:01,059 or too mature for a youngster to comprehend. 940 01:00:01,143 --> 01:00:04,771 I think they can understand so much more than we give them credit for, 941 01:00:04,855 --> 01:00:07,900 and they're capable of absorbing and learning so quickly. 942 01:00:07,983 --> 01:00:11,737 Most of them don't have the opportunity. It isn't thrown at them enough. 943 01:00:13,238 --> 01:00:15,240 You know, when we started Marvel Comics, 944 01:00:15,365 --> 01:00:18,452 I said, "Let's use a college level vocabulary," 945 01:00:18,535 --> 01:00:20,704 and everybody said, "Stan, you're out of your mind." 946 01:00:20,787 --> 01:00:24,541 I said, "Really?" I figured the kids would know... 947 01:00:24,625 --> 01:00:26,627 what the words meant by their use in the sentence 948 01:00:26,710 --> 01:00:29,129 or if they had to go to a dictionary and look up a word 949 01:00:29,213 --> 01:00:31,441 {\an8}it wasn't the worst thing in the world that would happen... 950 01:00:31,465 --> 01:00:33,800 {\an8}Maybe the older readers would appreciate it. 951 01:00:34,134 --> 01:00:37,971 So, strangely enough, in our little idiot Marvel Comics, 952 01:00:38,055 --> 01:00:42,518 I think there is as much or more learning for kids as you'll find anywhere else. 953 01:00:44,102 --> 01:00:48,690 I've walked pretty far for a comic on occasions, a few miles out of the way, 954 01:00:48,815 --> 01:00:51,860 just to get it a day early, which may seem a little silly, 955 01:00:52,569 --> 01:00:55,155 but some of us fans are weird. 956 01:00:59,743 --> 01:01:03,288 STAN: This is it. The second annual Mighty Marvel Convention. 957 01:01:03,372 --> 01:01:06,333 This is Stan Lee talking, and you are there. 958 01:01:06,416 --> 01:01:10,170 Now, I'll shut up and give you a chance to see what was happening. 959 01:01:10,254 --> 01:01:14,132 We start off with me signing autographs after making a speech. Here we go. 960 01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,386 Wherever I went, people would feel they knew me 961 01:01:17,469 --> 01:01:19,429 'cause they had been reading the books. 962 01:01:19,513 --> 01:01:24,601 Everyone said, "Hi, Stan." There was a warmth and a friendliness. 963 01:01:24,685 --> 01:01:28,105 I got a few votes in the last presidential election at some colleges. 964 01:01:28,188 --> 01:01:31,108 It was funny, you know. Some kids gave some write-in votes. 965 01:01:31,191 --> 01:01:32,651 I think I got 23 votes. 966 01:01:32,734 --> 01:01:34,987 It wasn't quite enough to carry the nation. 967 01:01:35,404 --> 01:01:36,989 What's your favorite character? 968 01:01:37,614 --> 01:01:39,575 Ben Grimm. The Thing. 969 01:01:39,658 --> 01:01:40,993 - Right! - And why is that? 970 01:01:41,743 --> 01:01:45,789 I don't know. It's just his personality and like, you know, what happened to him. 971 01:01:45,873 --> 01:01:47,953 He was turned into a monster and it wasn't his fault. 972 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:49,751 The Falcon, Avengers. 973 01:01:49,835 --> 01:01:51,253 - The Falcon? - Yeah. 974 01:01:51,336 --> 01:01:52,880 - Iron Man. - How come? 975 01:01:52,963 --> 01:01:56,175 Because I just like what he does. I think he's a great character. 976 01:01:56,258 --> 01:02:00,762 I like the stories that they write about him and all the inventions. 977 01:02:00,846 --> 01:02:02,514 Who's your favorite writer? 978 01:02:03,140 --> 01:02:04,308 Uh, Stan Lee. 979 01:02:05,309 --> 01:02:09,062 {\an8}RADIO HOST: This is K100 conversations, and I have with me a wacky person 980 01:02:09,146 --> 01:02:10,856 {\an8}by the name of Stan Lee. 981 01:02:10,939 --> 01:02:13,692 {\an8}And anybody who is into comics knows that name, 982 01:02:13,775 --> 01:02:17,237 because you are the guy that really created Marvel Comics, aren't you? 983 01:02:17,321 --> 01:02:19,907 STAN: Yeah, well, after a while, when you become a living legend, 984 01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:24,953 they get to know your name. I created Marvel Comics with the help 985 01:02:25,037 --> 01:02:27,831 of the various artists involved also, of course. 986 01:02:31,877 --> 01:02:36,590 It's funny how every artist has one little thing that's sort of a hang-up, 987 01:02:36,673 --> 01:02:38,884 and he has trouble fixing it. 988 01:02:38,967 --> 01:02:42,054 Jack has a way of drawing tremendously thin ankles 989 01:02:42,137 --> 01:02:43,972 on men and women. 990 01:02:44,848 --> 01:02:46,308 I've always got to watch what I say, 991 01:02:46,391 --> 01:02:48,602 because our artists are not only the most talented 992 01:02:48,685 --> 01:02:52,022 but certainly, the most temperamental group in the world, 993 01:02:52,105 --> 01:02:55,817 and we'd be absolutely lost without any single one of them. 994 01:02:55,901 --> 01:02:59,821 {\an8}But I'm sure I'm gonna catch hell for saying anything to offend any of 'em. 995 01:02:59,905 --> 01:03:02,908 {\an8}INTERVIEWER: Could you tell us a little more about Steve 996 01:03:02,991 --> 01:03:05,202 because I noticed that he is one of the few people 997 01:03:05,285 --> 01:03:07,287 that you did not print a photograph of 998 01:03:07,371 --> 01:03:09,289 in your first Marvel Annual 999 01:03:09,373 --> 01:03:12,668 and he is not on the record that you sent around. 1000 01:03:12,834 --> 01:03:14,586 - STAN: You want to know why? - Yes. 1001 01:03:14,670 --> 01:03:17,422 STAN: Purely personal. Steve does not want publicity. 1002 01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:19,049 I don't know what his reason is. 1003 01:03:19,132 --> 01:03:21,969 He says, "Oh, golly! I want my work to speak for me." 1004 01:03:22,052 --> 01:03:23,303 I'm not quoting him exactly, 1005 01:03:23,387 --> 01:03:25,472 but the feeling I get is that he doesn't feel 1006 01:03:25,556 --> 01:03:28,851 that he himself should be publicized. He just wants the work 1007 01:03:28,934 --> 01:03:31,562 that he does to be well known, and we respect his opinion. 1008 01:03:34,273 --> 01:03:37,150 {\an8}Steve had complained to me a number of times, 1009 01:03:37,901 --> 01:03:41,321 {\an8}when there were articles written about Spider-Man, 1010 01:03:41,405 --> 01:03:43,907 which called me the creator of Spider-Man, 1011 01:03:44,825 --> 01:03:48,954 and I had always thought I was, because I'm the guy who said, 1012 01:03:49,037 --> 01:03:53,834 I have an idea for a strip called Spider-Man and so forth. 1013 01:03:55,878 --> 01:03:59,631 Steve had said having an idea is nothing 1014 01:04:00,174 --> 01:04:05,637 {\an8}because until it becomes a physical thing, it's just an idea, 1015 01:04:05,762 --> 01:04:11,518 and he said it took him to draw the strip and to give it life, so to speak, 1016 01:04:11,602 --> 01:04:13,937 or to make it something tangible. 1017 01:04:14,646 --> 01:04:17,316 Otherwise, all I had was an idea. 1018 01:04:17,441 --> 01:04:18,442 So, I said to him, 1019 01:04:18,525 --> 01:04:22,863 "Well, I think the person with the idea is the person who creates it," 1020 01:04:23,030 --> 01:04:25,032 And he said, "No, because I drew it." 1021 01:04:32,831 --> 01:04:36,585 In the very beginning, I would come up with a rather detailed plot. 1022 01:04:37,127 --> 01:04:38,795 Tell Steve what it was. 1023 01:04:39,379 --> 01:04:43,008 He would draw the strip any way he wanted. I didn't give him a complete script. 1024 01:04:43,091 --> 01:04:46,220 He'd add a lot of things that I hadn't even thought of. 1025 01:04:46,303 --> 01:04:48,472 And then, I would get the pages of artwork, 1026 01:04:48,555 --> 01:04:51,934 and I would put in the dialogue trying to give everything 1027 01:04:52,017 --> 01:04:55,354 and everyone the personality that I wanted them to have. 1028 01:04:56,730 --> 01:05:00,651 Steve is a very creative guy. And the two of us, 1029 01:05:00,734 --> 01:05:03,195 whenever we discuss plots, we always just argue 1030 01:05:03,278 --> 01:05:06,281 because I want to do it one way and he wants to do it another. 1031 01:05:06,365 --> 01:05:08,534 And even though I may disagree, 1032 01:05:08,617 --> 01:05:12,079 I feel just the fact that he did it differently will make it good 1033 01:05:12,162 --> 01:05:15,666 because it won't be the usual type of plot coming out of our stable. 1034 01:05:15,749 --> 01:05:20,003 He'll just do them as he wants them, which makes it twice as difficult for me. 1035 01:05:20,796 --> 01:05:23,298 I enjoy it, though. I get a story back from him, 1036 01:05:23,382 --> 01:05:26,051 and I don't have the vaguest idea what this is about 1037 01:05:26,134 --> 01:05:28,804 because I didn't even give him a thumbnail idea. 1038 01:05:28,887 --> 01:05:31,348 He just went home, and he did whatever he wanted. 1039 01:05:33,058 --> 01:05:36,144 {\an8}So, I said, "Fine, I'll tell everybody you're the co-creator." 1040 01:05:37,354 --> 01:05:39,106 {\an8}That didn't quite satisfy him. 1041 01:05:42,734 --> 01:05:46,572 {\an8}I really think the guy who dreams the thing up created it. 1042 01:05:46,655 --> 01:05:49,783 You dream it up, and then you give it to anybody to draw it. 1043 01:05:54,997 --> 01:05:57,291 STAN: We've just lost the artist Steve Ditko 1044 01:05:57,374 --> 01:05:59,543 - MAN: Horrible. - (PEOPLE GROANING) 1045 01:06:00,085 --> 01:06:02,796 STAN: One day he just phoned and he said, "I'm leaving." 1046 01:06:03,881 --> 01:06:05,048 So that was it. 1047 01:06:06,008 --> 01:06:07,467 He was such a popular artist. 1048 01:06:08,427 --> 01:06:12,097 I think that we've managed to find people to replace him 1049 01:06:12,181 --> 01:06:15,684 where those boos will change to a chorus of cheers. 1050 01:06:19,688 --> 01:06:23,025 Steve and I worked beautifully together. 1051 01:06:24,193 --> 01:06:28,363 As far as I was concerned, he was the perfect collaborator. 1052 01:06:29,156 --> 01:06:31,116 His artwork was superb. 1053 01:06:31,617 --> 01:06:34,411 His story sense was brilliant. 1054 01:06:36,038 --> 01:06:39,708 I was heartbroken when Steve finally stopped working with us. 1055 01:06:50,344 --> 01:06:53,305 INTERVIEWER: You've put out more comics, I think than about anyone. 1056 01:06:53,388 --> 01:06:54,556 Yeah, we're the biggest. 1057 01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,433 Isn't there a problem of control? 1058 01:06:56,725 --> 01:06:59,019 STAN: It's one of our biggest problems. You're right. 1059 01:06:59,102 --> 01:07:02,189 I would love nothing better than to be doing one magazine, 1060 01:07:02,272 --> 01:07:04,191 which I could personally write and edit 1061 01:07:04,274 --> 01:07:07,986 and, unfortunately, we're a little bit like a mass production outfit. 1062 01:07:08,070 --> 01:07:10,072 I think we're all frustrated. 1063 01:07:10,155 --> 01:07:13,242 We'd all like to be able to spend a week on one story. 1064 01:07:13,325 --> 01:07:17,412 Unfortunately, because of the economics of this business, it's totally impossible. 1065 01:07:20,666 --> 01:07:23,794 We produce about two complete comic books a day. 1066 01:07:23,877 --> 01:07:25,379 It's like a production line. 1067 01:07:25,462 --> 01:07:29,466 If you ever saw the old Charlie Chaplin movie Modern Times, 1068 01:07:29,550 --> 01:07:32,261 there was a scene where Charlie Chaplin is on a production line 1069 01:07:32,344 --> 01:07:34,471 and his job is to do this with two wrenches 1070 01:07:34,555 --> 01:07:37,683 while things come down and he has to tighten the bolts 1071 01:07:37,766 --> 01:07:40,769 and he goes home at night and he's still doing this, you know. 1072 01:07:40,853 --> 01:07:44,606 Well, sometimes we feel like that. We don't even know what we're working on. 1073 01:07:44,690 --> 01:07:46,400 The pages are just coming by and... 1074 01:07:46,483 --> 01:07:48,360 "Proofread that. Change that title, 1075 01:07:48,443 --> 01:07:50,112 "get the lettering out and finish." 1076 01:07:50,195 --> 01:07:51,572 And off it goes. Two books a day. 1077 01:07:53,407 --> 01:07:56,118 In those days, everybody was just busy doing his work. 1078 01:07:56,702 --> 01:07:59,705 There was a lot of pressure to turn those things out in time. 1079 01:08:00,414 --> 01:08:03,625 Because of the fact that they don't get paid very much per page 1080 01:08:03,709 --> 01:08:07,462 and that they have to do a lot of pages a day in order to eke out a living, 1081 01:08:07,546 --> 01:08:09,631 the artists would say that they don't have a chance 1082 01:08:09,715 --> 01:08:11,383 to really show how good they are. 1083 01:08:14,261 --> 01:08:16,388 Sometime around then, Kirby left. 1084 01:08:37,951 --> 01:08:39,953 {\an8}RADIO HOST: We're speaking with Jack Kirby live. 1085 01:08:40,037 --> 01:08:44,333 {\an8}And now we can announce the very special surprise guest, 1086 01:08:44,416 --> 01:08:47,044 {\an8}your colleague, Stan Lee. 1087 01:08:47,127 --> 01:08:49,046 {\an8}STAN: I wanna wish Jack a happy birthday. 1088 01:08:49,129 --> 01:08:51,798 KIRBY: Well, Stanley, I want to thank you for calling and I hope 1089 01:08:51,882 --> 01:08:54,885 you're in good health and I hope you stay in good health. 1090 01:08:54,968 --> 01:08:57,304 STAN: I'm doing my best and the same to you. 1091 01:08:57,387 --> 01:08:59,014 You know, whatever we did together, 1092 01:08:59,097 --> 01:09:01,934 and no matter who did what, and I guess that's something 1093 01:09:02,017 --> 01:09:03,769 that'll be argued forever. 1094 01:09:03,852 --> 01:09:06,855 But I think that the product that was produced 1095 01:09:06,939 --> 01:09:10,275 was really even more than a sum of its parts. 1096 01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:14,738 I think there was some slight magic that came into effect, 1097 01:09:14,821 --> 01:09:16,323 when we worked together. 1098 01:09:16,406 --> 01:09:19,243 KIRBY: Well, I was never sorry for it, Stanley. 1099 01:09:19,326 --> 01:09:21,578 It was a great experience for me. 1100 01:09:21,662 --> 01:09:25,207 If the product was good, that was my satisfaction. 1101 01:09:25,332 --> 01:09:27,310 RADIO HOST: You know, when it comes right down to it, 1102 01:09:27,334 --> 01:09:30,254 it doesn't matter who exactly did what. 1103 01:09:30,337 --> 01:09:31,922 STAN: Well, I'll say this. 1104 01:09:32,005 --> 01:09:34,925 Every word of dialogue in those scripts was mine. 1105 01:09:35,926 --> 01:09:38,262 RADIO HOST: Well, I don't want... STAN: Every story. 1106 01:09:38,345 --> 01:09:41,974 RADIO HOST: I don't want to get into controversy about that. What I want to... 1107 01:09:42,057 --> 01:09:44,226 KIRBY: I can tell you that I wrote a few lines myself 1108 01:09:44,309 --> 01:09:47,563 - above every panel that I... - RADIO HOST: Yes, I've seen those. 1109 01:09:47,646 --> 01:09:50,399 STAN: They weren't printed in the book. RADIO HOST: Look. 1110 01:09:50,482 --> 01:09:52,919 STAN: Jack, answer me truthfully. KIRBY: I wasn't allowed to... 1111 01:09:52,943 --> 01:09:55,946 STAN: Did you ever read one of the stories after it was finished? 1112 01:09:56,029 --> 01:09:57,322 I don't think you did. 1113 01:09:57,406 --> 01:09:59,700 I don't think you ever read one of my stories. 1114 01:09:59,783 --> 01:10:01,952 I think you were always busy drawing the next one. 1115 01:10:02,035 --> 01:10:03,871 You never read when it was finished. 1116 01:10:03,954 --> 01:10:07,082 KIRBY: Whatever was written in 'em wasn't... 1117 01:10:07,165 --> 01:10:11,879 Well, look, it was the action I was interested in. 1118 01:10:11,962 --> 01:10:14,548 I know, and I think you felt, "Well, it doesn't matter. 1119 01:10:14,631 --> 01:10:17,593 "Anybody can put the dialogue in, it's what I'm drawing that matters." 1120 01:10:17,676 --> 01:10:20,429 And maybe you're right. I don't agree with it. 1121 01:10:20,512 --> 01:10:24,725 No. I'm only trying to say that one man and his writing and drawing, 1122 01:10:24,808 --> 01:10:27,728 and doing a strip, it should come from an individual. 1123 01:10:27,811 --> 01:10:30,105 I believe that you should have the opportunity, 1124 01:10:30,189 --> 01:10:32,191 uh, to do the entire thing yourself. 1125 01:10:32,274 --> 01:10:35,611 RADIO HOST: The success of Marvel had to do with... 1126 01:10:35,694 --> 01:10:39,907 To keeping a greater attention to the characters 1127 01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:42,784 than to the egos of the people creating them. 1128 01:10:42,868 --> 01:10:45,913 STAN: When you mention an ego problem, the funny thing is, 1129 01:10:45,996 --> 01:10:48,874 I'm afraid those problems are only cropping up now. 1130 01:10:48,957 --> 01:10:52,878 I think when Jack and I did the strips, there was no ego problem. 1131 01:10:52,961 --> 01:10:55,005 We were just doing the best we could. 1132 01:10:55,088 --> 01:10:58,759 KIRBY: Listen, you can understand now, uh, 1133 01:10:59,801 --> 01:11:01,386 how things really were. 1134 01:11:10,354 --> 01:11:13,190 (RADIO PLAYING INDISTINCTLY) 1135 01:11:26,078 --> 01:11:31,083 My guest is somebody who is not only an old friend and associate 1136 01:11:31,166 --> 01:11:36,630 but one of the genuine talented movers and shakers of our business. 1137 01:11:36,713 --> 01:11:40,467 Roy Thomas, editor-emeritus of Marvel Comics, 1138 01:11:40,551 --> 01:11:44,304 and as good a writer as we're ever going to find anywhere 1139 01:11:44,388 --> 01:11:46,765 in the comic business and maybe in any other business. 1140 01:11:47,015 --> 01:11:50,310 It just was as though you were the answer to a prayer. Remember, you... 1141 01:11:50,394 --> 01:11:54,106 You took over the Fantastic Four. You took over the Avengers, the X... 1142 01:11:54,189 --> 01:11:56,275 - I guess you did almost all the stories. - Most. 1143 01:11:56,358 --> 01:11:59,736 And as good as anybody could have wanted. Built up your own following. 1144 01:11:59,820 --> 01:12:01,113 I began to hate you 1145 01:12:01,196 --> 01:12:03,198 - as the fans began to love you. - (CHUCKLES) 1146 01:12:05,242 --> 01:12:08,704 When I became publisher, I stopped most of the writing. 1147 01:12:09,329 --> 01:12:13,000 When I was writing, I had total control of them. 1148 01:12:13,083 --> 01:12:15,168 And they matured, if you want to use that word, 1149 01:12:15,252 --> 01:12:16,545 the way I wanted them to. 1150 01:12:16,628 --> 01:12:20,299 But I realized, the minute you stop writing a series 1151 01:12:20,382 --> 01:12:24,803 and other writers take over, they've got to do it their way. 1152 01:12:27,472 --> 01:12:32,144 {\an8}Comic books started out really dealing with male heroes 1153 01:12:32,227 --> 01:12:33,812 'cause at that time, years ago, 1154 01:12:33,896 --> 01:12:36,732 {\an8}nobody even thought to have too many women heroes. 1155 01:12:36,815 --> 01:12:38,567 {\an8}But now, as publisher, 1156 01:12:38,650 --> 01:12:42,863 I have found that 10% of our readers are females. 1157 01:12:43,488 --> 01:12:46,867 So we ourselves are trying to increase that readership. 1158 01:12:46,950 --> 01:12:48,744 And these past few months and years, 1159 01:12:49,077 --> 01:12:52,039 we've been adding more and more female characters. 1160 01:12:52,706 --> 01:12:56,668 We have one character who's a barbarian called Red Sonja, 1161 01:12:56,752 --> 01:12:58,587 in the pre-historical days. 1162 01:12:58,754 --> 01:13:00,756 She wields a sword and she's great. 1163 01:13:00,839 --> 01:13:03,759 {\an8}We have a character called Medusa. We have the Black Widow. 1164 01:13:03,842 --> 01:13:08,347 {\an8}We have a new one called Ms. Marvel. She's gonna be a big one. 1165 01:13:09,473 --> 01:13:13,018 It was the first time in all the years I had been working there 1166 01:13:13,519 --> 01:13:17,689 that I had given the artists the freedom to do the books 1167 01:13:17,773 --> 01:13:19,608 the way they wanted to do them. 1168 01:13:20,734 --> 01:13:24,446 I find it's a little bit difficult now. The one thing that I regret, 1169 01:13:24,530 --> 01:13:27,574 of course, we're not together 24 hours a day. 1170 01:13:27,658 --> 01:13:29,451 Roy does his writing at home, 1171 01:13:29,535 --> 01:13:33,455 and we've lost a little bit of that perfect control we had 1172 01:13:33,539 --> 01:13:35,082 over all the characters. 1173 01:13:35,499 --> 01:13:39,461 Once or twice, I may wanna use a certain villain, and I'll say to Roy, 1174 01:13:39,545 --> 01:13:42,923 say "I'm gonna bring back Dr. Octopus in the next issue," and Roy'll say, 1175 01:13:43,006 --> 01:13:45,592 "Oh, Stan, you can't. I just did it in the Avengers." 1176 01:13:45,676 --> 01:13:48,345 You see? And it makes it a little difficult. 1177 01:13:48,637 --> 01:13:51,723 There probably are times where things don't gel 1178 01:13:51,807 --> 01:13:54,226 or dovetail quite as perfectly. 1179 01:13:54,309 --> 01:13:57,187 But that's one of the little things we have to put up with 1180 01:13:57,271 --> 01:13:59,690 because of the fact that we've grown so. 1181 01:14:03,610 --> 01:14:09,157 I've reached the pinnacle of idleness, 1182 01:14:09,241 --> 01:14:10,826 I'm now the publisher. 1183 01:14:10,909 --> 01:14:12,536 They kicked me upstairs. 1184 01:14:12,619 --> 01:14:16,456 {\an8}And it's my job to see to it that the other people do all the writing, 1185 01:14:16,540 --> 01:14:18,834 {\an8}but I really miss the writing. 1186 01:14:29,803 --> 01:14:33,515 When they named me the publisher of this thing, I became a big businessman. 1187 01:14:37,519 --> 01:14:40,397 I always wanted to become somebody important, 1188 01:14:41,982 --> 01:14:43,358 but I'm not a businessman. 1189 01:14:45,444 --> 01:14:49,323 I've really no interest in working with figures and things like that. 1190 01:14:49,781 --> 01:14:53,994 The board of directors, they wanted me to come up with a five-year plan. 1191 01:14:54,077 --> 01:14:57,873 Where will we be in five years and how much budget do we need? 1192 01:14:57,956 --> 01:15:01,335 But to me, anything that has to do with business is dull. 1193 01:15:04,338 --> 01:15:06,590 (CROWD CHEERING) 1194 01:15:08,133 --> 01:15:10,761 So I kept the title publisher, 1195 01:15:10,844 --> 01:15:13,347 but instead of just being a businessman, 1196 01:15:14,765 --> 01:15:19,269 I traveled around the country talking up Marvel Comics. 1197 01:15:19,353 --> 01:15:20,979 Thank you, culture-lovers. 1198 01:15:22,648 --> 01:15:26,318 {\an8}I was going to colleges and television shows 1199 01:15:26,401 --> 01:15:29,279 and radio shows pitching Marvel. 1200 01:15:29,404 --> 01:15:32,824 HOST: The superhero of the comic book business, Stan Lee. 1201 01:15:32,908 --> 01:15:33,951 (AUDIENCE APPLAUDING) 1202 01:15:34,034 --> 01:15:40,749 STAN: I've always felt comic books were a more powerful cultural device 1203 01:15:40,832 --> 01:15:43,377 than they ever had a chance to prove to be. 1204 01:15:43,460 --> 01:15:46,129 I hope to give them that chance now. 1205 01:15:46,213 --> 01:15:50,759 I want to make comic books much more important than they've ever been. 1206 01:15:51,510 --> 01:15:55,848 Basically, it's really a religious crusade, I like to think. 1207 01:15:55,931 --> 01:15:57,015 (AUDIENCE LAUGHS) 1208 01:15:57,099 --> 01:15:58,183 WOMAN: Indeed. (LAUGHS) 1209 01:16:05,190 --> 01:16:08,485 STAN: By this time, I had been at Marvel for many years. 1210 01:16:09,319 --> 01:16:13,866 I had had a lifetime job, and I was damn well worth it. 1211 01:16:14,366 --> 01:16:16,285 Here's what I think we ought to do. 1212 01:16:18,078 --> 01:16:19,329 I marked them all up. 1213 01:16:19,663 --> 01:16:22,207 But the company was sold. 1214 01:16:24,376 --> 01:16:26,587 One of the owners of the new company said, 1215 01:16:26,670 --> 01:16:29,715 "Stan, don't worry, you're going to be better than ever." 1216 01:16:29,798 --> 01:16:32,301 And he was gonna give everyone new contracts. 1217 01:16:32,426 --> 01:16:35,053 So the new contract I was offered was 1218 01:16:35,137 --> 01:16:39,016 instead of a lifetime contract, a two-year contract, 1219 01:16:39,099 --> 01:16:40,976 which made me very unhappy. 1220 01:16:43,103 --> 01:16:46,440 I always resented the fact that when I wrote these stories, 1221 01:16:47,191 --> 01:16:51,486 I never thought, "Gee, I ought to try to copyright something myself and own it." 1222 01:16:51,570 --> 01:16:53,447 It always belonged to the company. 1223 01:16:53,530 --> 01:16:56,700 So from a business point of view, that was a mistake. 1224 01:16:59,077 --> 01:17:02,539 I was heartbroken. There wasn't much I could do about it. 1225 01:17:08,212 --> 01:17:11,757 In a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts... 1226 01:17:13,258 --> 01:17:14,736 BARACK OBAMA: It is time for a change. 1227 01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:16,428 CROWD: Yes! Yes, we can! 1228 01:17:22,601 --> 01:17:24,144 KENNETH BRANAGH: Let's put a camera up. 1229 01:17:24,228 --> 01:17:25,854 Let's not keep this young man waiting. 1230 01:17:27,898 --> 01:17:30,192 STAN: Marvel finally settled things. 1231 01:17:30,859 --> 01:17:33,612 MAN: Guys, let's clear. Everybody, please. 1232 01:17:34,112 --> 01:17:37,407 STAN: They gave me title Chairman Emeritus, 1233 01:17:37,491 --> 01:17:39,785 which was an honorary title. 1234 01:17:40,369 --> 01:17:41,912 I was very happy about that. 1235 01:17:42,037 --> 01:17:45,791 BRANAGH: And, action! Camera! Car! 1236 01:17:47,042 --> 01:17:48,043 Stan! 1237 01:17:48,126 --> 01:17:49,253 Did it work? 1238 01:17:49,962 --> 01:17:53,340 Stan, thank you so much for being here. It is our absolute pleasure 1239 01:17:53,423 --> 01:17:56,176 and forgive us if there's lots of handshakes and autographs asked 1240 01:17:56,260 --> 01:17:57,803 before you get out of here, 1241 01:17:57,886 --> 01:18:00,013 but thank you so much. We are honored to have you. 1242 01:18:00,097 --> 01:18:02,307 - Thank you! Thanks a lot! - Thank you. 1243 01:18:02,391 --> 01:18:03,868 STAN: So many people walk up and say, 1244 01:18:03,892 --> 01:18:07,187 "I just want to thank you for all the enjoyment you've brought." 1245 01:18:07,813 --> 01:18:09,982 And I've been doing this since the 1940s. 1246 01:18:10,691 --> 01:18:12,651 People who've read the books then 1247 01:18:12,734 --> 01:18:14,778 still remember them and have stayed with them. 1248 01:18:14,903 --> 01:18:18,365 And now they have their own kids. Some have their grandkids. 1249 01:18:19,533 --> 01:18:22,953 {\an8}I often look back at the early '60s in the famous Marvel bullpen 1250 01:18:23,036 --> 01:18:26,076 {\an8}and think about the characters that came out of the imaginations of Stan Lee, 1251 01:18:26,123 --> 01:18:29,960 {\an8}Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and all of the co-creators. It's incredible. 1252 01:18:30,043 --> 01:18:32,087 And when we sit around our conference room tables 1253 01:18:32,171 --> 01:18:35,174 in development sessions on these movies, I find myself thinking, 1254 01:18:35,257 --> 01:18:38,844 "Boy, if we could just tap into 5% of that crucible of imagination." 1255 01:18:40,137 --> 01:18:42,817 We're just trying to emulate what the comics have been doing so well 1256 01:18:42,848 --> 01:18:44,349 for so many decades. 1257 01:18:45,851 --> 01:18:48,353 STAN: In the days I was writing those books, 1258 01:18:48,770 --> 01:18:50,480 I was hoping they'd sell 1259 01:18:50,606 --> 01:18:53,984 so I wouldn't lose my job and I could keep paying the rent. 1260 01:18:54,443 --> 01:18:58,989 {\an8}All of a sudden, these characters have become world-famous. 1261 01:18:59,448 --> 01:19:03,076 They're the subject of blockbuster movies, 1262 01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:05,746 and I'm lucky enough to get little cameos in 'em. 1263 01:19:07,497 --> 01:19:10,792 Cut. Ladies and gentlemen, that's a camera wrap 1264 01:19:10,876 --> 01:19:14,004 on the creator of Iron Man, Mr. Stan Lee. 1265 01:19:14,087 --> 01:19:18,091 STAN: The fact that I'm working with characters that I've created... 1266 01:19:18,175 --> 01:19:19,176 Action. 1267 01:19:19,259 --> 01:19:22,221 Superheroes in New York? Give me a break. 1268 01:19:23,055 --> 01:19:26,683 And the fact that they are being directed so beautifully... 1269 01:19:26,892 --> 01:19:28,310 Did it work? 1270 01:19:28,435 --> 01:19:32,606 That's Captain America? I thought he'd be taller. 1271 01:19:32,773 --> 01:19:35,275 - To work with such professionals. - Oh, man. 1272 01:19:35,359 --> 01:19:37,528 I am so fired. 1273 01:19:37,653 --> 01:19:40,072 And they all have a love of the characters. 1274 01:19:40,155 --> 01:19:42,366 Are you Tony Stank? 1275 01:19:42,491 --> 01:19:45,077 I never thought it would turn into something like this. 1276 01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,913 Anyway, before I was so rudely interrupted... 1277 01:19:48,455 --> 01:19:50,499 To work with creative people, 1278 01:19:50,874 --> 01:19:53,335 especially people who make movies, 1279 01:19:54,086 --> 01:19:55,796 is such a thrill. 1280 01:19:59,174 --> 01:20:00,384 No! 1281 01:20:00,759 --> 01:20:01,802 Yes! 1282 01:20:02,386 --> 01:20:04,930 It's overwhelming when I think about it. 1283 01:20:05,013 --> 01:20:08,725 Well, the '60s were fun, but now I'm paying for it. 1284 01:20:08,809 --> 01:20:09,810 MAN: And cut it. 1285 01:20:10,018 --> 01:20:11,645 I think I'll just take these... 1286 01:20:12,271 --> 01:20:15,774 bring them over here and hold on for safekeeping. 1287 01:20:16,859 --> 01:20:20,153 What's the matter with you kids? You never seen a spaceship before? 1288 01:20:20,237 --> 01:20:21,238 MAN: Action. 1289 01:20:21,947 --> 01:20:23,282 "Trust me, true believer." 1290 01:20:24,616 --> 01:20:28,370 I would have to be crazy not to feel fulfilled. 1291 01:20:30,497 --> 01:20:33,834 {\an8}It's certainly been nice to see the world catch up with what Stan did. 1292 01:20:33,917 --> 01:20:37,004 {\an8}Even if it took movies and TV shows to do it. 1293 01:20:37,087 --> 01:20:38,547 {\an8}The world kinda has to admit now, 1294 01:20:38,630 --> 01:20:41,341 {\an8}you know, maybe there is something to some of this stuff. 1295 01:20:41,425 --> 01:20:43,468 For goodness sake, how're you? 1296 01:20:43,552 --> 01:20:45,095 (INDISTINCT CONVERSATION) 1297 01:20:46,305 --> 01:20:49,141 THOMAS: The seeds of all that stuff are all set back in what Stan did 1298 01:20:49,224 --> 01:20:51,435 with Jack and Steve. 1299 01:20:51,518 --> 01:20:54,771 You know, you could always trace anything that they do now. 1300 01:20:55,189 --> 01:20:58,275 In fact, it all kind of flows from this fountain that was unleashed 1301 01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,195 when Stan and Jack and Ditko, you know, got together 1302 01:21:01,278 --> 01:21:04,239 and suddenly became this wonderful triumvirate, 1303 01:21:04,323 --> 01:21:06,200 creating a whole universe. 1304 01:21:10,871 --> 01:21:14,458 Neither of them could have, really, you know, done it without the other. 1305 01:21:20,005 --> 01:21:23,509 {\an8}Join me in giving a big welcome to Mr. Stan Lee. 1306 01:21:23,592 --> 01:21:25,469 {\an8}(AUDIENCE CHEERING) 1307 01:21:28,388 --> 01:21:29,389 Thank you. 1308 01:21:33,685 --> 01:21:35,437 I spent quite a lot of time 1309 01:21:36,355 --> 01:21:40,442 writing a 25-page speech that I could give you 1310 01:21:41,985 --> 01:21:45,447 and as I looked at it, I said, "Would I want to hear this speech?" 1311 01:21:46,865 --> 01:21:47,908 So I tore it up. 1312 01:21:48,992 --> 01:21:52,204 So I stand here now defenseless, 1313 01:21:53,038 --> 01:21:55,624 with nothing except to tell you 1314 01:21:57,000 --> 01:21:58,877 if you have an idea 1315 01:21:58,961 --> 01:22:02,130 that you genuinely think is good, 1316 01:22:03,006 --> 01:22:05,592 don't let some idiot talk you out of it. 1317 01:22:05,676 --> 01:22:11,598 That doesn't mean that every wild notion you come up with is gonna be genius, 1318 01:22:11,682 --> 01:22:15,310 but if there is something that you feel is good, 1319 01:22:15,644 --> 01:22:20,274 {\an8}something you want to do, something that means something to you, 1320 01:22:20,816 --> 01:22:25,070 try to do it. Because you can only do your best work 1321 01:22:25,654 --> 01:22:28,574 if you're doing what you want to do 1322 01:22:28,657 --> 01:22:32,619 and if you're doing it the way you think it should be done, 1323 01:22:32,703 --> 01:22:35,998 and if you can take pride in it after you've done it, 1324 01:22:36,081 --> 01:22:37,499 no matter what it is, 1325 01:22:37,583 --> 01:22:41,545 you can look at it and say, "I did that and I think it's pretty damn good." 1326 01:22:41,670 --> 01:22:42,921 That's a great feeling. 1327 01:22:43,672 --> 01:22:48,135 I want to wish all of you the best luck in the world. 1328 01:22:48,218 --> 01:22:52,222 Just do your thing. Whatever you do, give it your best shot. 1329 01:22:52,306 --> 01:22:54,266 You'll be glad you did. 1330 01:22:54,349 --> 01:22:56,018 - Excelsior! - (AUDIENCE CHEERING)