1 00:00:09,968 --> 00:00:13,178 -The national spotlight is now focused on Orlando. 2 00:00:13,221 --> 00:00:16,521 -It's happening -- the most closely watched case 3 00:00:16,558 --> 00:00:19,518 maybe ever, or certainly since O.J. Simpson. 4 00:00:19,561 --> 00:00:23,361 -In the court of public opinion, Casey was already guilty. 5 00:00:23,398 --> 00:00:25,188 [ Twitter notifications whistling ] 6 00:00:25,233 --> 00:00:29,203 -As difficult as it may be for anyone to accept 7 00:00:29,237 --> 00:00:31,197 that a mother would intentionally 8 00:00:31,239 --> 00:00:32,869 kill her own child, 9 00:00:32,907 --> 00:00:35,617 there is no other conclusion. 10 00:00:35,660 --> 00:00:41,210 -This case was full of purported evidence against Casey. 11 00:00:41,249 --> 00:00:43,709 -Evidence of duct tape found over the mouth 12 00:00:43,752 --> 00:00:45,212 of the child's skull, 13 00:00:45,253 --> 00:00:46,883 high levels of chloroform found 14 00:00:46,921 --> 00:00:48,881 in the trunk of Casey's car. 15 00:00:48,923 --> 00:00:52,223 -But when they did some testing on the remains, 16 00:00:52,260 --> 00:00:55,260 no chloroform was found, no drugs. 17 00:00:55,305 --> 00:00:59,055 There was no DNA at all on the duct tape. 18 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:02,480 -It appeared to be that she was behaving incorrectly. 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,770 -They say she went to clubs, got her nails done, 20 00:01:04,814 --> 00:01:07,484 got a tattoo that said "Good life." 21 00:01:07,525 --> 00:01:09,565 -During the 31 days, I genuinely believed 22 00:01:09,611 --> 00:01:11,361 that Caylee was still alive. 23 00:01:11,404 --> 00:01:14,624 My father kept telling me she was okay. 24 00:01:14,657 --> 00:01:17,907 I just had to keep following his instructions. 25 00:01:17,952 --> 00:01:19,582 It was like I was brainwashed. 26 00:01:19,621 --> 00:01:22,211 And it wasn't until much later 27 00:01:22,248 --> 00:01:25,378 that I started to really realize why. 28 00:01:25,418 --> 00:01:28,208 I wasn't the only one home. 29 00:01:28,254 --> 00:01:29,764 I'm not outright accusing him of murder, 30 00:01:29,798 --> 00:01:33,588 but it wasn't an accident in the pool. 31 00:01:33,635 --> 00:01:35,675 ** 32 00:01:44,229 --> 00:01:50,569 ** 33 00:01:50,610 --> 00:01:53,150 [ Indistinct conversations ] 34 00:01:53,196 --> 00:01:59,326 ** 35 00:01:59,369 --> 00:02:02,289 -After 19 days of testimony, the prosecution rests 36 00:02:02,330 --> 00:02:03,960 in their case against Casey Anthony. 37 00:02:03,998 --> 00:02:07,088 -They announced this afternoon that there would be a verdict. 38 00:02:07,127 --> 00:02:09,297 ** 39 00:02:09,337 --> 00:02:11,667 -My life was literally hanging by a thread 40 00:02:11,715 --> 00:02:12,875 at that point. 41 00:02:12,924 --> 00:02:18,144 My potential of any kind of future hinged on 42 00:02:18,179 --> 00:02:20,719 the decision that those 12 people made. 43 00:02:20,765 --> 00:02:27,855 ** 44 00:02:33,820 --> 00:02:36,780 I don't -- I'm rarely at a loss for words. 45 00:02:36,823 --> 00:02:39,533 This is -- This is one of those moments. 46 00:02:40,618 --> 00:02:43,618 I can't describe to you how it feels 47 00:02:43,663 --> 00:02:47,583 except to say I wouldn't wish this upon my worst enemy. 48 00:02:47,625 --> 00:02:49,335 I wouldn't wish this upon any of the people 49 00:02:49,377 --> 00:02:51,047 who were trying to kill me or any of the people 50 00:02:51,087 --> 00:02:53,507 who would be watching this and still thinking that I'm guilty. 51 00:02:53,548 --> 00:02:56,338 I wouldn't wish this upon anyone, ever. 52 00:02:56,384 --> 00:02:58,474 That's how bad it is. 53 00:02:58,511 --> 00:03:02,021 This is what hell feels like, is what I was put through 54 00:03:02,057 --> 00:03:03,557 for those three years. 55 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,520 ** 56 00:03:07,562 --> 00:03:09,562 -Let's return the jury. 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,530 Madam clerk, you may publish the verdicts. 58 00:03:18,948 --> 00:03:22,038 As to the charge of first-degree murder, 59 00:03:22,077 --> 00:03:23,697 we, the jury, find the defendant 60 00:03:23,745 --> 00:03:25,705 not guilty. 61 00:03:25,747 --> 00:03:29,377 ** 62 00:03:29,417 --> 00:03:33,247 As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, 63 00:03:33,296 --> 00:03:34,916 we, the jury, find the defendant 64 00:03:34,964 --> 00:03:36,884 not guilty. 65 00:03:36,925 --> 00:03:39,965 ** 66 00:03:40,011 --> 00:03:41,471 -When that verdict was read, 67 00:03:41,513 --> 00:03:44,603 we have this massive team embrace. 68 00:03:46,559 --> 00:03:49,559 They saved my life. 69 00:03:49,604 --> 00:03:53,404 After three years of dread and sadness, 70 00:03:53,441 --> 00:03:57,401 finally, they proved my innocence. 71 00:04:01,324 --> 00:04:03,584 -That was the beginning of Casey's 72 00:04:03,618 --> 00:04:07,328 carefully constructed coping mechanisms 73 00:04:07,372 --> 00:04:10,252 just cracking and slowly falling apart. 74 00:04:10,291 --> 00:04:13,591 That hug that Dorothy Clay Sims gave her 75 00:04:13,628 --> 00:04:16,548 of love and comfort and support, 76 00:04:16,589 --> 00:04:19,589 she allowed that and needed it 77 00:04:19,634 --> 00:04:22,014 and knew she needed it. 78 00:04:22,053 --> 00:04:23,933 ** 79 00:04:23,972 --> 00:04:27,852 -I just lost control and just began sobbing. 80 00:04:27,892 --> 00:04:31,982 It was such a relief. Such a relief. 81 00:04:32,897 --> 00:04:35,777 Even though the jury came back with a not guilty verdict, 82 00:04:35,817 --> 00:04:37,777 we were really afraid for her life. 83 00:04:37,819 --> 00:04:40,359 We were all looking at each other saying, 84 00:04:40,405 --> 00:04:41,945 "Oh, my God, now what do we do?" 85 00:04:41,990 --> 00:04:44,580 -We know how the court of public opinion feels about this. 86 00:04:44,617 --> 00:04:47,447 Lot of people feel very surprised by this verdict. 87 00:04:50,081 --> 00:04:51,461 -Casey's a murderer! 88 00:04:51,499 --> 00:04:53,959 -They will kill Casey if they had a chance. 89 00:04:54,002 --> 00:04:57,092 -Casey Anthony's defense lawyers reported several death threats 90 00:04:57,130 --> 00:04:59,420 against her, including an image that showed her 91 00:04:59,466 --> 00:05:00,836 with a bullet through her head. 92 00:05:00,884 --> 00:05:03,434 ** 93 00:05:03,470 --> 00:05:05,680 -We were all getting so many death threats. 94 00:05:05,722 --> 00:05:08,062 They were talking about my children. 95 00:05:08,099 --> 00:05:11,229 We knew we had to get the hell out of Dodge. 96 00:05:11,269 --> 00:05:12,519 [ Crowd shouting ] 97 00:05:12,562 --> 00:05:14,812 We needed to escape. 98 00:05:14,856 --> 00:05:23,776 ** 99 00:05:23,823 --> 00:05:32,503 ** 100 00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:34,170 [ Helicopter blades whirring ] 101 00:05:34,209 --> 00:05:39,169 ** 102 00:05:39,214 --> 00:05:41,594 I rented a house in the Panhandle, 103 00:05:41,633 --> 00:05:45,053 and I collected Casey. 104 00:05:45,095 --> 00:05:49,885 And we went into this rental house, and Pat was there. 105 00:05:49,933 --> 00:05:52,233 -I've been doing this as a private investigator 106 00:05:52,268 --> 00:05:53,518 38 years. 107 00:05:53,561 --> 00:05:55,481 Done a lot of high-profile cases. 108 00:05:55,522 --> 00:05:58,112 I was a bodyguard for Yoko Ono. 109 00:06:00,568 --> 00:06:03,528 The media was burying this girl. 110 00:06:03,571 --> 00:06:06,871 There were a lot of death threats to her. 111 00:06:06,908 --> 00:06:10,788 It was just out of control, and so I sensed that 112 00:06:10,829 --> 00:06:14,209 it would get worse if we didn't have a plan. 113 00:06:14,249 --> 00:06:17,539 So now I'm, like, all-in, right? 114 00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:19,625 I don't know, maybe it's the Marine in me. 115 00:06:19,671 --> 00:06:20,881 I want to fight. We don't leave 116 00:06:20,922 --> 00:06:23,722 the wounded behind after battle. 117 00:06:25,593 --> 00:06:28,683 She had been convicted of lying to the police, 118 00:06:28,722 --> 00:06:30,972 which is a felony, and I knew we had to 119 00:06:31,016 --> 00:06:33,136 get her through a year of probation. 120 00:06:33,184 --> 00:06:37,024 It hit me that there was really no good plan for her. 121 00:06:37,063 --> 00:06:40,783 -We didn't know where she should go, where she should live. 122 00:06:40,817 --> 00:06:42,937 I was, at the time, decided I was leaving the country 123 00:06:42,986 --> 00:06:46,066 and moving to France, and I had considered 124 00:06:46,114 --> 00:06:48,244 having her stay with us. It didn't occur to me 125 00:06:48,283 --> 00:06:51,123 that she couldn't get a passport because of a felony conviction. 126 00:06:51,161 --> 00:06:53,871 So she couldn't leave the country. 127 00:06:57,917 --> 00:06:59,627 -Do you need another water or are you good? 128 00:06:59,669 --> 00:07:00,879 You gonna grab one? -I'm gonna get one 129 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,840 out of the fridge. -Okay. 130 00:07:05,467 --> 00:07:07,587 Here. For you. -Get one of these. 131 00:07:07,635 --> 00:07:08,755 Thank you. 132 00:07:08,803 --> 00:07:10,853 -Pat McKenna took in Casey 133 00:07:10,889 --> 00:07:13,309 when everybody else stepped away. 134 00:07:13,350 --> 00:07:14,680 -I got napkins in the cabinet. 135 00:07:14,726 --> 00:07:17,186 -Coffee-stained napkins. -I don't care, I recycle. 136 00:07:17,228 --> 00:07:20,108 -Frankly, our job was done as the lawyers. 137 00:07:20,148 --> 00:07:24,278 You don't take care of someone after the trial is over, 138 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,149 but he did. 139 00:07:26,196 --> 00:07:32,326 ** 140 00:07:32,369 --> 00:07:35,209 -Yeah, you sit in the shade. I'll sit in the sun. 141 00:07:35,246 --> 00:07:37,616 ** 142 00:07:37,665 --> 00:07:40,205 -I'm using my fingers. 143 00:07:40,251 --> 00:07:41,921 -[ Laughs ] 144 00:07:41,961 --> 00:07:44,881 -With the approval of my family, 145 00:07:44,923 --> 00:07:46,593 I brought her to my house. 146 00:07:46,633 --> 00:07:48,643 Everybody agreed, and I said I'd, you know, 147 00:07:48,677 --> 00:07:51,597 provide a year's worth of safety for this kid. 148 00:07:51,638 --> 00:07:54,468 -You're still allergic to bees, right? 149 00:07:54,516 --> 00:07:55,846 -Yeah, why? 150 00:07:55,892 --> 00:07:57,982 -There are bees. -Oh, they don't bother me. 151 00:07:58,019 --> 00:07:59,939 -[ Laughs ] 152 00:07:59,979 --> 00:08:02,149 ** 153 00:08:02,190 --> 00:08:05,820 -Being a sole practitioner, I'm a one-man band. 154 00:08:05,860 --> 00:08:08,490 I do my own filing. I'm surrounded by files. 155 00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:09,990 My house is a mess. 156 00:08:10,031 --> 00:08:13,241 And she's very organized, and so I saw that she could 157 00:08:13,284 --> 00:08:15,334 really help me out. 158 00:08:15,370 --> 00:08:19,080 I felt like she needed to do something. 159 00:08:20,083 --> 00:08:22,343 -I wonder if that's the one that 160 00:08:22,377 --> 00:08:24,167 they used after I made adjustments to mine, 161 00:08:24,212 --> 00:08:25,882 because I red-lined a couple things initially. 162 00:08:25,922 --> 00:08:27,592 -Oh, really? -But most of the appearance 163 00:08:27,632 --> 00:08:29,682 releases are standard. 164 00:08:29,718 --> 00:08:30,838 -I don't know. 165 00:08:30,885 --> 00:08:33,135 -Casey lived with Pat. 166 00:08:33,179 --> 00:08:38,349 I mean, she no longer does, but for a long time. 167 00:08:38,393 --> 00:08:41,943 -So, this is an album I made you a couple years ago. 168 00:08:41,980 --> 00:08:44,150 I have so many photos. -Mm-hmm. 169 00:08:44,190 --> 00:08:47,070 -My favorite picture -- [ Laughs ] 170 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:49,320 I will never not laugh at this. 171 00:08:49,362 --> 00:08:52,242 [ Laughing ] In all the photos, you're always... 172 00:08:52,282 --> 00:08:56,042 Pat offered to let me stay at his house for nothing 173 00:08:56,077 --> 00:08:59,327 until I figured out what my plan was going to be. 174 00:08:59,372 --> 00:09:01,832 -I'm pretty sure that was your 67th. I could look. 175 00:09:01,875 --> 00:09:03,705 He's the guy that would walk me down the aisle 176 00:09:03,752 --> 00:09:06,052 if I was ever dumb enough to get married. 177 00:09:06,087 --> 00:09:09,047 He's the closest thing to a real dad that I've ever had. 178 00:09:10,091 --> 00:09:13,761 -So, we became very close quickly. 179 00:09:16,765 --> 00:09:19,385 She's been in my family for, what, 180 00:09:19,434 --> 00:09:21,904 11 years going strong, so... 181 00:09:21,936 --> 00:09:26,566 This is my little group, and we've had her for, 182 00:09:26,608 --> 00:09:30,148 you know, all holidays, Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving. 183 00:09:30,195 --> 00:09:32,525 You know, and then just Sunday dinners. 184 00:09:32,572 --> 00:09:34,992 You know, she's become part of our whole extended 185 00:09:35,033 --> 00:09:37,243 group of people, family and friends. 186 00:09:37,285 --> 00:09:38,655 ** 187 00:09:38,703 --> 00:09:44,083 When I took Casey in, one of the rules was no photos 188 00:09:44,125 --> 00:09:48,045 so that it wouldn't get out to the media where Casey was. 189 00:09:48,088 --> 00:09:52,548 But, you know, she's got more of a family here 190 00:09:52,592 --> 00:09:56,932 than she ever had in Orlando, in Ohio, or wherever. 191 00:09:56,971 --> 00:09:59,271 She became like a daughter. 192 00:09:59,307 --> 00:10:05,227 ** 193 00:10:05,271 --> 00:10:10,151 -He taught her how to be a person and live her life. 194 00:10:10,193 --> 00:10:16,743 She engaged in deep therapy, and the relationship 195 00:10:16,783 --> 00:10:19,953 that you built with her, 196 00:10:19,994 --> 00:10:24,874 you had to move slowly because there were obvious trust issues. 197 00:10:24,916 --> 00:10:28,286 Not specific to anyone, but specific to everyone. 198 00:10:28,336 --> 00:10:32,416 She didn't have anyone. She was on her own. 199 00:10:32,465 --> 00:10:34,875 She felt hurt and betrayed. 200 00:10:34,926 --> 00:10:38,136 She had everyone she considered a friend 201 00:10:38,179 --> 00:10:40,929 sharing with the world every uncomfortable 202 00:10:40,974 --> 00:10:42,854 and embarrassing moment 203 00:10:42,892 --> 00:10:46,152 or conversation that she ever had. 204 00:10:46,187 --> 00:10:47,807 -I always thought of myself as a pretty good 205 00:10:47,856 --> 00:10:50,026 judge of character, and, you know, 206 00:10:50,066 --> 00:10:53,026 she completely fooled all of us. 207 00:10:55,447 --> 00:11:02,197 There is absolutely nothing that Casey could ever say to anybody 208 00:11:02,245 --> 00:11:05,365 that is going to make me believe that she wasn't 209 00:11:05,415 --> 00:11:11,875 in some way responsible or involved with Caylee's death. 210 00:11:11,921 --> 00:11:14,171 -So, the lies make it hard 211 00:11:14,215 --> 00:11:17,545 to not think that she did murder this child. 212 00:11:17,594 --> 00:11:21,814 -When the story broke and the nanny's name got dropped, 213 00:11:21,848 --> 00:11:24,728 Zanny the Nanny, I stood up and said, 214 00:11:24,768 --> 00:11:27,938 "She was using Xanax to babysit her kid." 215 00:11:27,979 --> 00:11:34,189 I fully believe that Caylee was overdosed with Xanax. 216 00:11:34,235 --> 00:11:35,815 -Did you ever give Xanax to Caylee? 217 00:11:35,862 --> 00:11:37,862 -No, I never gave Caylee anything 218 00:11:37,906 --> 00:11:40,116 other than cold medicine when she had a cold. 219 00:11:40,158 --> 00:11:42,198 That was some concocted bullshit story, 220 00:11:42,243 --> 00:11:44,873 whether by the media or someone affiliated. 221 00:11:44,913 --> 00:11:46,373 There trying to piece things together 222 00:11:46,414 --> 00:11:50,004 that don't fit into anything because they don't exist. 223 00:11:50,043 --> 00:11:52,093 None of that is real. 224 00:11:52,128 --> 00:11:55,838 -I never saw Casey with Xanax. 225 00:11:55,882 --> 00:12:00,352 I never saw her give Caylee any Xanax. 226 00:12:00,387 --> 00:12:07,137 But just the fact that Zanny the Nanny was said, 227 00:12:07,185 --> 00:12:10,105 just sent a lightbulb off in my head. 228 00:12:11,981 --> 00:12:15,901 Two of the people that I feel the worst for 229 00:12:15,944 --> 00:12:18,074 is Cindy and George. 230 00:12:18,113 --> 00:12:21,033 George and I exchanged a couple e-mails. 231 00:12:21,074 --> 00:12:23,284 I couldn't even begin to understand 232 00:12:23,326 --> 00:12:27,956 what it would be like to not only lose your grandchild, 233 00:12:27,997 --> 00:12:32,037 but to lose your child at the same time, too. 234 00:12:34,045 --> 00:12:35,585 -If Casey's even watching this someday, 235 00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:39,180 yeah, I blame my daughter for Caylee not being here today. 236 00:12:39,217 --> 00:12:42,257 -And you blamed her then and you blame her today? 237 00:12:42,303 --> 00:12:43,473 -Yes, sir, I do. 238 00:12:43,513 --> 00:12:45,273 I do. 239 00:12:45,306 --> 00:12:47,676 -And you all disagree about that? 240 00:12:47,726 --> 00:12:49,936 -We do. 241 00:12:49,978 --> 00:12:52,148 -What happened with my father was irreparable, 242 00:12:52,188 --> 00:12:55,278 and that's how I felt about my mom also. 243 00:12:55,316 --> 00:12:58,276 It's been the same pattern now for 11 years. 244 00:12:58,319 --> 00:13:00,109 My parents, being in the public eye, 245 00:13:00,155 --> 00:13:03,775 throw me under the bus for money. 246 00:13:03,825 --> 00:13:05,445 -What do you think really happened? 247 00:13:05,493 --> 00:13:08,083 -My gut feeling inside, I believe 248 00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:10,291 Caylee was given something and she didn't wake up. 249 00:13:10,331 --> 00:13:13,461 -Do you think she intentionally wanted to kill Caylee? 250 00:13:13,501 --> 00:13:15,341 -I don't think she intentionally wanted to. 251 00:13:15,378 --> 00:13:17,088 -Okay, then that -- -I don't think she 252 00:13:17,130 --> 00:13:20,260 intentionally wanted to, but she should be in jail 253 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:22,970 because of Caylee not being here. 254 00:13:24,387 --> 00:13:27,347 -I want to think he doesn't have the power to hurt me anymore, 255 00:13:27,390 --> 00:13:30,190 but he still does. 256 00:13:30,226 --> 00:13:32,896 And this was years ago, 257 00:13:32,937 --> 00:13:35,317 this interview. 258 00:13:35,357 --> 00:13:37,937 One of many that he and my mother did separately 259 00:13:37,984 --> 00:13:40,994 and together for money. 260 00:13:41,029 --> 00:13:43,029 For money. 261 00:13:43,073 --> 00:13:45,703 Throw me under the bus for money. 262 00:13:45,742 --> 00:13:47,162 Why? 263 00:13:47,202 --> 00:13:51,412 Why exploit the situation any more than it has been? 264 00:13:55,168 --> 00:13:58,418 I lost everything the day I lost her. 265 00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:02,469 Everything. 266 00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:07,349 And it doesn't matter what I've done in between 267 00:14:07,389 --> 00:14:09,679 in the life I try to live, 268 00:14:09,724 --> 00:14:13,404 and how good I try to be. 269 00:14:13,436 --> 00:14:16,356 Every day, I live with a broken heart. 270 00:14:18,983 --> 00:14:21,193 I want to know why. 271 00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:26,203 I want to know why she was taken out of my arms. 272 00:14:26,241 --> 00:14:27,911 Why didn't he call 911? 273 00:14:27,951 --> 00:14:30,541 I wasn't the only one that was home. 274 00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:34,330 Why? 275 00:14:36,751 --> 00:14:38,381 And why, after all this time, 276 00:14:38,420 --> 00:14:42,260 keep blaming me for something I didn't do? 277 00:14:44,592 --> 00:14:47,142 Why? 278 00:14:57,355 --> 00:14:58,855 ** 279 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:00,398 -It's literally right here. 280 00:15:00,442 --> 00:15:06,662 -Yes, and recently opened as a small kind of a goth bar. 281 00:15:06,698 --> 00:15:07,948 -[ Laughs ] 282 00:15:07,991 --> 00:15:11,581 -Casey's someone who's like family. 283 00:15:11,619 --> 00:15:16,249 I've had the opportunity to see her, through therapy 284 00:15:16,291 --> 00:15:19,251 and through long-term friendships and love 285 00:15:19,294 --> 00:15:23,174 and support, become this warm, loving, 286 00:15:23,214 --> 00:15:28,354 trusting, hilarious person that I know today. 287 00:15:28,386 --> 00:15:29,756 -You're not gonna let me get this either, are you? 288 00:15:29,804 --> 00:15:31,144 -No. -Ugh, fine. 289 00:15:31,181 --> 00:15:32,771 -I've never asked her about 290 00:15:32,807 --> 00:15:35,267 what occurred with Caylee. 291 00:15:35,310 --> 00:15:37,480 I know what her experience has been, vaguely, 292 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:42,980 but in terms of digging into the details of it, 293 00:15:43,026 --> 00:15:50,946 I've always given her space and I respect her boundaries. 294 00:15:50,992 --> 00:15:57,582 She's been through so, so much that it's not my place 295 00:15:57,624 --> 00:15:59,464 to do anything but love and support her 296 00:15:59,501 --> 00:16:02,501 and give her space to tell her story 297 00:16:02,545 --> 00:16:07,545 in the time that she feels comfortable doing that. 298 00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:13,680 -I never spoke to Casey about her theory 299 00:16:13,723 --> 00:16:15,813 of what happened to Caylee. 300 00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:17,310 I never pushed. 301 00:16:17,352 --> 00:16:20,652 I'm trying to provide a safe environment for this kid. 302 00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:24,319 Hopefully, make sure she don't implode because she can -- 303 00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:26,319 I always thought, you know, 304 00:16:26,361 --> 00:16:29,661 who knows what could happen to her? 305 00:16:29,698 --> 00:16:31,368 -I know that hearing some of this 306 00:16:31,408 --> 00:16:33,488 is going to make them hurt, too, 307 00:16:33,535 --> 00:16:36,445 because they're going to feel my pain. 308 00:16:39,624 --> 00:16:41,844 And that more than anything is the main reason 309 00:16:41,876 --> 00:16:43,666 I haven't talked about it. 310 00:16:43,712 --> 00:16:48,842 ** 311 00:16:48,883 --> 00:16:51,393 [ Sighs ] 312 00:16:55,265 --> 00:16:59,095 I put my memories into boxes. 313 00:16:59,144 --> 00:17:02,314 It protected me, but also was holding me back 314 00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:06,525 from really dealing with things. 315 00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:10,156 In this process of some of those boxes, 316 00:17:10,196 --> 00:17:14,406 I had to forcibly pull down off of a shelf and unlock. 317 00:17:16,327 --> 00:17:19,157 I have to rip my life back open. 318 00:17:20,874 --> 00:17:26,804 And when I finally was able to start to explore each of them, 319 00:17:26,838 --> 00:17:32,718 no matter how painful or how hurtful the gaps in my memory, 320 00:17:32,761 --> 00:17:36,101 it allowed me to work through some of that. 321 00:17:38,641 --> 00:17:42,401 But now it's all been knocked around on the floor. 322 00:17:42,437 --> 00:17:44,807 And I have to feel that deepest sorrow, 323 00:17:44,856 --> 00:17:47,396 and I'm grieving all over again. 324 00:17:51,237 --> 00:17:53,027 There are just answers I don't have. 325 00:17:53,073 --> 00:17:56,283 And that's been one of the hardest pieces of all of this, 326 00:17:56,326 --> 00:17:57,906 is still not knowing. 327 00:17:57,952 --> 00:18:04,422 ** 328 00:18:04,459 --> 00:18:07,879 My father promised me that I could come home from this place. 329 00:18:10,340 --> 00:18:11,840 I'm remembering him coming and visiting me. 330 00:18:11,883 --> 00:18:14,263 I remember him promising me that I would come home. 331 00:18:14,302 --> 00:18:15,852 I'm remembering him promise me 332 00:18:15,887 --> 00:18:17,257 that everything was going to be okay, 333 00:18:17,305 --> 00:18:18,805 that Caylee was going to be okay. 334 00:18:18,848 --> 00:18:22,098 I'm remembering every fucking day that I spent here. 335 00:18:22,143 --> 00:18:26,863 ** 336 00:18:26,898 --> 00:18:31,148 I still need the same answers that I needed then. 337 00:18:31,194 --> 00:18:33,494 I need to know why all of this happened in the first place 338 00:18:33,530 --> 00:18:36,620 and why he pinned it all in me. 339 00:18:36,658 --> 00:18:38,618 -I walked into your room last night 340 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:41,410 and just looked around and had a couple 341 00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:43,294 extra little prayers and just said, you know, 342 00:18:43,331 --> 00:18:44,921 "You're coming home soon, sweetheart." 343 00:18:44,958 --> 00:18:49,878 Caylee's gonna be home soon, so you can be that family again. 344 00:18:49,921 --> 00:18:51,341 -[ Sighs ] 345 00:18:51,381 --> 00:18:53,551 [ Chuckles ] 346 00:18:56,678 --> 00:18:59,638 [ Sighs ] 347 00:18:59,681 --> 00:19:01,391 He's telling me that I was coming home soon. 348 00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:02,813 It would all be over soon. 349 00:19:02,851 --> 00:19:05,351 I just had to keep following his instructions. 350 00:19:05,395 --> 00:19:09,565 He told me what he thought I wanted to hear, 351 00:19:09,607 --> 00:19:11,187 that he was supporting me, that I was coming home, 352 00:19:11,234 --> 00:19:12,744 that everything would be okay. 353 00:19:12,777 --> 00:19:14,817 And on national television, acting like he was 354 00:19:14,863 --> 00:19:17,073 supporting me, coming to the jail prior to that, 355 00:19:17,115 --> 00:19:18,525 prior to me ever being indicted. 356 00:19:18,575 --> 00:19:21,405 -I don't believe my daughter could hurt anyone. 357 00:19:21,453 --> 00:19:24,963 -Why do you think she was arrested and charged, George? 358 00:19:24,998 --> 00:19:27,748 -Because like Cindy said, they had their mind made up. 359 00:19:27,792 --> 00:19:30,342 It was just too easy for them to just close the book on this 360 00:19:30,378 --> 00:19:32,338 and say, "Well, we're gonna charge you 361 00:19:32,380 --> 00:19:34,170 with your daughter's disappearance" 362 00:19:34,215 --> 00:19:36,175 and just be done with it. 363 00:19:36,217 --> 00:19:37,887 -In this interview, my father is telling the truth 364 00:19:37,927 --> 00:19:42,767 of my innocence, that law enforcement went after me. 365 00:19:42,807 --> 00:19:45,347 But yet he testified in front of the grand jury 366 00:19:45,393 --> 00:19:48,523 almost two months before this. 367 00:19:48,563 --> 00:19:52,073 -Florida grand jury indicted Casey Anthony on charges 368 00:19:52,108 --> 00:19:53,778 of first-degree murder. 369 00:19:53,818 --> 00:19:57,028 Among those called to testify before the 19-member grand jury 370 00:19:57,072 --> 00:20:01,372 Tuesday was George Anthony, Casey's father. 371 00:20:01,409 --> 00:20:03,579 -I found out that my father had testified against me 372 00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:07,870 at the grand jury on October 14th, 373 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:11,376 the same day that the grand jury was convened. 374 00:20:11,419 --> 00:20:13,709 Besides law enforcement, the only 375 00:20:13,755 --> 00:20:17,255 non-law enforcement-affiliated individual to be called 376 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,510 to testify was my father, and he was their first witness. 377 00:20:20,553 --> 00:20:24,813 -This is going to be very hard for me to do. 378 00:20:24,849 --> 00:20:26,979 My focus is always on my granddaughter. 379 00:20:27,018 --> 00:20:30,268 It always will be. 380 00:20:30,313 --> 00:20:32,323 -I thought it was very interesting 381 00:20:32,357 --> 00:20:36,107 they chose to put George before the grand jury. 382 00:20:36,152 --> 00:20:37,402 We don't know what he said. 383 00:20:37,445 --> 00:20:39,485 We'll never get to know what he said. 384 00:20:39,531 --> 00:20:41,451 That's confidential, so we have no idea 385 00:20:41,491 --> 00:20:43,411 what they talked to him about. 386 00:20:43,451 --> 00:20:44,911 But we know they wound up 387 00:20:44,953 --> 00:20:49,583 with an indictment to charge her with first-degree murder. 388 00:20:49,624 --> 00:20:51,334 -At that point, did you have any idea 389 00:20:51,376 --> 00:20:54,206 that your father was going to testify against you in that way? 390 00:20:54,254 --> 00:20:56,014 -No. 391 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:03,099 There were moments and instances that I knew something was off 392 00:21:03,138 --> 00:21:04,928 and I knew something was wrong, and the promises 393 00:21:04,973 --> 00:21:07,433 that he was making, he wasn't keeping. 394 00:21:07,475 --> 00:21:09,635 But after the indictment, 395 00:21:09,686 --> 00:21:13,606 I was able to listen to his interviews with law enforcement. 396 00:21:13,648 --> 00:21:15,438 Just before I was initially arrested, 397 00:21:15,483 --> 00:21:18,403 my father talked to investigators. 398 00:21:18,445 --> 00:21:20,235 -He talked to me at the car as I was 399 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,870 at the end of the driveway. 400 00:21:21,906 --> 00:21:25,616 I noted in my report what he'd said. 401 00:21:25,660 --> 00:21:28,620 -He said I withheld information. 402 00:21:28,663 --> 00:21:30,873 -I interviewed George and I remember him 403 00:21:30,915 --> 00:21:34,585 just going on and on about what a liar Casey was. 404 00:21:34,627 --> 00:21:37,457 Don't believe anything she tells you. 405 00:21:37,505 --> 00:21:38,715 It took me a while. I said, "George, 406 00:21:38,757 --> 00:21:40,547 do you understand my role here? 407 00:21:40,592 --> 00:21:42,012 I'm trying to help your daughter. 408 00:21:42,052 --> 00:21:43,352 She's looking at death." 409 00:21:43,386 --> 00:21:46,426 "Well, you can't believe anything she says." 410 00:22:05,825 --> 00:22:08,785 He's playing on his ex-cop persona. 411 00:22:08,828 --> 00:22:12,538 "Guys, we are all in this together. 412 00:22:12,582 --> 00:22:13,962 We're in this together." Meaning "we," 413 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,540 "I'm an ex-cop. We're all in this together." 414 00:22:24,594 --> 00:22:25,804 "It's a puzzle. 415 00:22:25,845 --> 00:22:27,595 There are just some pieces missing. 416 00:22:27,639 --> 00:22:29,349 We got to get these pieces." 417 00:22:29,391 --> 00:22:32,351 George is kind of leading this interview, 418 00:22:32,394 --> 00:22:33,984 and it's like, "You're the fucking 419 00:22:34,020 --> 00:22:36,020 missing piece, George. 420 00:22:36,064 --> 00:22:37,774 ** 421 00:22:47,701 --> 00:22:52,541 ** 422 00:22:52,580 --> 00:22:56,500 -I was 22. I was a scared kid. 423 00:22:56,543 --> 00:22:58,593 I'm not scared anymore. Now I'm angry. 424 00:22:58,628 --> 00:23:03,218 I've reverted from that scared place to now, 425 00:23:03,258 --> 00:23:08,428 over the years, my anger just builds. 426 00:23:08,471 --> 00:23:11,431 The same man who would immediately go and report 427 00:23:11,474 --> 00:23:14,194 to law enforcement after he met with me. 428 00:23:14,227 --> 00:23:15,557 But yet on national television, 429 00:23:15,603 --> 00:23:17,363 acting like he was supporting me. 430 00:23:17,397 --> 00:23:20,227 -Do 100% believe your daughter? 431 00:23:20,275 --> 00:23:22,185 -Yes, I do. -George, what about you? 432 00:23:22,235 --> 00:23:26,025 100%? -100%. 433 00:23:26,072 --> 00:23:29,992 -Manipulation after manipulation after manipulation. 434 00:23:32,787 --> 00:23:36,957 But somehow he got cleared by law enforcement from day one. 435 00:23:38,543 --> 00:23:40,553 -Was there ever any other suspect? 436 00:23:40,587 --> 00:23:43,377 Not just looking at Casey, right? 437 00:23:43,423 --> 00:23:46,763 -I mean, the first thing you have to do 438 00:23:46,801 --> 00:23:48,511 when you're investigating a missing child 439 00:23:48,553 --> 00:23:50,603 is go to the people that have custody care, 440 00:23:50,638 --> 00:23:52,058 custody and control over the child. 441 00:23:52,098 --> 00:23:55,188 As far as any other suspects, the family. 442 00:23:55,226 --> 00:23:58,186 You're always looking at the family. 443 00:23:58,229 --> 00:24:00,359 Cindy would always talk to you. 444 00:24:00,398 --> 00:24:02,608 Lee was much more reserved, as I recall. 445 00:24:02,650 --> 00:24:06,530 But George always tried to help. 446 00:24:06,571 --> 00:24:08,241 I mean, they all gave us timelines. 447 00:24:08,281 --> 00:24:12,451 Casey obviously was the last person with the victim. 448 00:24:15,789 --> 00:24:18,959 Well, that's what George had reported to us. 449 00:24:26,508 --> 00:24:28,258 -Did it trouble you that it was only George? 450 00:24:28,301 --> 00:24:33,851 You had no other witness for when Casey left with Caylee? 451 00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:36,230 -Would that, in my mind, make him -- 452 00:24:36,267 --> 00:24:37,557 immediately make him a suspect 453 00:24:37,602 --> 00:24:39,102 because he's one of the last people 454 00:24:39,145 --> 00:24:42,015 that that sees the two together? 455 00:24:42,065 --> 00:24:45,735 You'd be remiss not to realize that as a possibility, 456 00:24:45,777 --> 00:24:47,777 but there was just nothing that led us down that road 457 00:24:47,821 --> 00:24:51,451 that George was responsible in any way 458 00:24:51,491 --> 00:24:53,661 for the death of the child. 459 00:24:55,870 --> 00:24:57,790 -There was an honesty in George. 460 00:24:57,831 --> 00:24:59,501 The same questions we were asking 461 00:24:59,541 --> 00:25:01,081 are questions that he was asking, 462 00:25:01,126 --> 00:25:03,796 and now we're asking him, and he's frustrated in the fact 463 00:25:03,837 --> 00:25:06,417 that he can't give us the answers. 464 00:25:15,473 --> 00:25:16,933 It's obvious that he wants to be 465 00:25:16,975 --> 00:25:19,845 the doting father or grandfather. 466 00:25:23,898 --> 00:25:26,228 Just the things he would say. It wasn't thought out 467 00:25:26,276 --> 00:25:28,566 before he would say it. 468 00:25:39,581 --> 00:25:42,331 He was certainly much more honest and open 469 00:25:42,375 --> 00:25:45,545 in the interview about Casey 470 00:25:45,587 --> 00:25:47,957 in terms of describing his own daughter. 471 00:25:53,762 --> 00:25:55,392 I don't want to say you take advantage of those things, 472 00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:57,560 but you use them to your advantage 473 00:25:57,599 --> 00:26:00,689 in trying to get information. -Yeah. 474 00:26:00,727 --> 00:26:03,557 -Everything that we found about George was that 475 00:26:03,605 --> 00:26:06,565 he was a loving grandfather, and I think he was a man 476 00:26:06,608 --> 00:26:10,148 that was dealing with a lot of things. 477 00:26:10,195 --> 00:26:15,325 ** 478 00:26:15,367 --> 00:26:17,737 -I talked to John Allen. 479 00:26:17,786 --> 00:26:19,246 You know, when I asked him about George, 480 00:26:19,287 --> 00:26:21,037 why wasn't George a suspect, 481 00:26:21,081 --> 00:26:23,171 it's the same answer as Eric Edwards, 482 00:26:23,208 --> 00:26:24,918 same answer as Scott Bolin. 483 00:26:24,959 --> 00:26:26,799 "He was a good guy. Such a good guy. 484 00:26:26,836 --> 00:26:31,126 He's a good granddad. He loved his grandchild." 485 00:26:31,174 --> 00:26:35,144 -Yeah. What proof did you have of that? 486 00:26:35,178 --> 00:26:36,758 When there's a murder, 487 00:26:36,805 --> 00:26:39,845 everybody's a suspect till you eliminate people. 488 00:26:39,891 --> 00:26:44,691 You don't eliminate a guy 'cause he's a good guy, okay? 489 00:26:46,147 --> 00:26:49,477 They believed everything out of his mouth, that she's a liar. 490 00:26:49,526 --> 00:26:53,066 They found out she's a liar, so I think they viewed George 491 00:26:53,113 --> 00:26:54,913 as rather than just be a witness, 492 00:26:54,948 --> 00:26:57,238 he's, like, in on that with them, you know? 493 00:26:57,283 --> 00:26:59,993 Be the mentality is, 494 00:27:00,036 --> 00:27:01,906 "We got our girl. We're not looking 495 00:27:01,955 --> 00:27:06,875 in any other place because it doesn't fit our story." 496 00:27:16,344 --> 00:27:17,764 -She became a pariah, 497 00:27:17,804 --> 00:27:20,104 one of the nation's most despised women. 498 00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:25,770 -I cannot believe that Casey Anthony still has friends. 499 00:27:25,812 --> 00:27:29,442 -I've avoided so much of what is in the media, 500 00:27:29,482 --> 00:27:30,942 but Pat's had a Google alert on me 501 00:27:30,984 --> 00:27:34,744 since just after I moved in. And I forget, 502 00:27:34,779 --> 00:27:40,449 it was some blog years ago, maybe 2013, 2014, 503 00:27:40,493 --> 00:27:43,663 and this woman, of her own volition, 504 00:27:43,705 --> 00:27:45,575 went back and started looking at stuff. 505 00:27:45,623 --> 00:27:50,423 And that was one of those things that that blog -- 506 00:27:50,462 --> 00:27:53,422 her... 507 00:27:53,465 --> 00:27:58,795 her reasonably unbiased view of the case 508 00:27:58,845 --> 00:28:01,675 helped me piece some of it together. 509 00:28:04,851 --> 00:28:09,021 -My name is Kristen Patton. I'm a citizen journalist. 510 00:28:09,064 --> 00:28:12,824 I love studying court cases. I love acquittals especially. 511 00:28:12,859 --> 00:28:14,939 You have this idea that it's one way, 512 00:28:14,986 --> 00:28:16,696 and then you find out that the jury 513 00:28:16,738 --> 00:28:19,368 saw it completely different, and the Casey Anthony case 514 00:28:19,407 --> 00:28:22,617 was just so unbelievable. 515 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:24,370 I just kind of fell down that rabbit hole 516 00:28:24,412 --> 00:28:25,962 of I have to solve this case. 517 00:28:25,997 --> 00:28:29,417 I have to figure out what really happened to Caylee Anthony. 518 00:28:30,835 --> 00:28:33,955 As I was researching this case, I was trying to get just 519 00:28:34,005 --> 00:28:36,755 some idea of how George felt about things. 520 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,010 And the thing that I noticed first is that every time 521 00:28:39,052 --> 00:28:41,552 that I would get one opinion about -- 522 00:28:41,596 --> 00:28:43,716 that George had said, I would find some other 523 00:28:43,765 --> 00:28:45,725 statement that contradicted that. 524 00:28:45,767 --> 00:28:47,767 He's telling the media that the car smells like a pizza. 525 00:28:47,811 --> 00:28:49,231 But then he's going to the police and telling them 526 00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:50,900 that Casey's guilty and he's telling them 527 00:28:50,939 --> 00:28:54,069 that there's human decomposition in the trunk. 528 00:28:54,109 --> 00:28:57,569 And this is something that nobody ever noticed. 529 00:28:57,612 --> 00:29:00,742 Why didn't the media notice the differences? 530 00:29:03,201 --> 00:29:06,041 Even during the trial, George claimed that he wanted 531 00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:07,999 to help his daughter. 532 00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:11,079 But when the prosecution put him on the stand, 533 00:29:11,126 --> 00:29:15,706 George was very clearly trying to build the prosecution's case. 534 00:29:15,755 --> 00:29:17,915 -Prosecutors painted Casey as a monster 535 00:29:17,966 --> 00:29:20,716 who murdered her daughter, lied at every turn, 536 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,140 and in the end, callously tossed away her remains. 537 00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:28,390 George Anthony was the first witness on the stand. 538 00:29:28,435 --> 00:29:31,145 -George testified a handful of times. 539 00:29:33,148 --> 00:29:37,188 -There is George Anthony. He is back on the witness stand. 540 00:29:37,235 --> 00:29:39,695 -The prosecution wanted to say that there was a body 541 00:29:39,738 --> 00:29:41,948 in the trunk of her car, and George was the one 542 00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:44,490 who was establishing that she didn't want anyone near her car. 543 00:29:44,534 --> 00:29:45,954 -I said, "Casey," I said, "I need to 544 00:29:45,994 --> 00:29:47,754 get something out of your car." 545 00:29:47,787 --> 00:29:50,787 Casey just brushes past me very quickly, says, 546 00:29:50,832 --> 00:29:52,542 "Dad, I'll get it. 547 00:29:52,584 --> 00:29:54,174 I'll get it out of the car." 548 00:29:54,210 --> 00:29:55,960 -He was the one who told the jurors 549 00:29:56,004 --> 00:29:59,474 that Casey had human decomposition in her car. 550 00:29:59,507 --> 00:30:01,587 -George and Cindy, although witnesses in the case, 551 00:30:01,634 --> 00:30:07,774 could remain in the courtroom as survivors of the victim. 552 00:30:07,807 --> 00:30:09,637 So George is in the back of the room, 553 00:30:09,684 --> 00:30:12,064 he listened to the testimony as it came in, 554 00:30:12,103 --> 00:30:15,483 then he got back up, went back to the stand, 555 00:30:15,523 --> 00:30:18,783 filled in blanks for the state. 556 00:30:18,818 --> 00:30:21,528 -It struck me as odd. He wasn't just a witness. 557 00:30:21,571 --> 00:30:23,951 He was the prosecution's key witness. 558 00:30:23,990 --> 00:30:27,200 -Thank you, Mr. Anthony. You may resume your seat. 559 00:30:27,243 --> 00:30:33,503 ** 560 00:30:33,541 --> 00:30:34,961 -Did it surprise you that George 561 00:30:35,001 --> 00:30:39,881 took the stand against Casey so many times? 562 00:30:39,923 --> 00:30:43,433 -No, It doesn't surprise me that George took the stand 563 00:30:43,468 --> 00:30:45,508 as many times as he did. 564 00:30:45,553 --> 00:30:47,353 -You may proceed. 565 00:30:47,389 --> 00:30:52,889 -Would you ever testify against your child in any situation? 566 00:30:52,936 --> 00:30:55,856 -Yes, I would testify against my own child 567 00:30:55,897 --> 00:30:58,527 if I thought my child did something wrong. 568 00:30:58,566 --> 00:31:02,066 And the only reason why I believe that he did testify 569 00:31:02,112 --> 00:31:05,282 was because of the allegations that were made against him. 570 00:31:06,408 --> 00:31:12,458 -Have you ever sexually molested your daughter, 571 00:31:12,497 --> 00:31:14,997 Casey Anthony? 572 00:31:15,041 --> 00:31:16,881 -No, sir. 573 00:31:20,088 --> 00:31:24,878 -It was hard for me to believe the abuse allegation 574 00:31:24,926 --> 00:31:29,966 because of every other lie that she told us. 575 00:31:30,015 --> 00:31:33,055 -If there is no abuse, there's no explanation. 576 00:31:33,101 --> 00:31:35,231 But when we talk to the psychologists 577 00:31:35,270 --> 00:31:37,480 who deal with people who've been sexually abused 578 00:31:37,522 --> 00:31:39,822 from a small age by a parent, 579 00:31:39,858 --> 00:31:43,988 they describe a kind of a mind control 580 00:31:44,029 --> 00:31:47,029 that the parent has over that child. 581 00:31:47,073 --> 00:31:50,043 And they also describe a child that results 582 00:31:50,076 --> 00:31:53,956 who has the ability to go into these compartmentalize worlds, 583 00:31:53,997 --> 00:31:58,417 make them lock up the knowledge of one world, one reality, 584 00:31:58,460 --> 00:31:59,880 and move into another. 585 00:31:59,919 --> 00:32:02,089 And they often do that. 586 00:32:02,130 --> 00:32:03,630 They compartmentalize to the point 587 00:32:03,673 --> 00:32:05,593 where they seem like a compulsive liar. 588 00:32:05,633 --> 00:32:07,433 -Compulsive liar. 589 00:32:07,469 --> 00:32:09,599 ** 590 00:32:09,637 --> 00:32:11,387 [ Sighs ] 591 00:32:11,431 --> 00:32:17,691 ** 592 00:32:17,729 --> 00:32:20,769 I have to admit, 593 00:32:20,815 --> 00:32:22,935 that makes sense. 594 00:32:24,611 --> 00:32:26,651 That makes a lot of sense. 595 00:32:31,326 --> 00:32:32,486 -During the case, 596 00:32:32,535 --> 00:32:34,655 Lee, the brother, comes in one day, 597 00:32:34,704 --> 00:32:35,964 says, "Hey, I got some information, 598 00:32:35,997 --> 00:32:38,167 but I don't know if this is helpful." 599 00:32:38,208 --> 00:32:40,088 -Right before the end of the trial, 600 00:32:40,126 --> 00:32:42,916 Jose had talked to Lee and told him, 601 00:32:42,962 --> 00:32:46,422 "Lee, she could go to prison for the rest of her life." 602 00:32:46,466 --> 00:32:47,926 -Lee Anthony. 603 00:32:47,967 --> 00:32:50,507 -And then Lee called him and said, 604 00:32:50,553 --> 00:32:54,933 "I need to tell you about how our pets were buried." 605 00:32:54,974 --> 00:32:59,524 -Lee says, "When our family pets would die, 606 00:32:59,562 --> 00:33:03,152 Dad, George, would wrap the puppy in a blanket, 607 00:33:03,191 --> 00:33:07,991 put it in a trash bag, and duct tape the trash bag, 608 00:33:08,029 --> 00:33:10,119 and we would bury the thing." 609 00:33:10,156 --> 00:33:12,486 Now we are going nuts on the defense going, 610 00:33:12,534 --> 00:33:14,704 "Of course George does that, and of course, 611 00:33:14,744 --> 00:33:18,374 this is how Caylee's found, in a trash bag with duct tape 612 00:33:18,415 --> 00:33:20,995 and wrapped in a blanket," the little Winnie the Pooh 613 00:33:21,042 --> 00:33:22,792 or whatever that came from the house. 614 00:33:22,836 --> 00:33:24,166 So we're, like, going, 615 00:33:24,212 --> 00:33:27,092 "George has something to do with something." 616 00:33:29,217 --> 00:33:32,847 Another part of George's interesting behavior, 617 00:33:32,887 --> 00:33:38,057 he conducts an affair with a woman during this whole fiasco. 618 00:33:38,101 --> 00:33:40,941 He has an affair with this woman, Krystal Holloway. 619 00:33:40,979 --> 00:33:43,109 -A woman who said she had an affair 620 00:33:43,148 --> 00:33:44,688 with Casey Anthony's father 621 00:33:44,733 --> 00:33:46,863 took the stand for the defense. 622 00:33:46,901 --> 00:33:48,361 -Do you know George Anthony? 623 00:33:48,403 --> 00:33:49,533 -Yes. 624 00:33:49,571 --> 00:33:51,201 -How do you know him? 625 00:33:51,239 --> 00:33:55,199 -I met him at a tent when his granddaughter was missing. 626 00:33:55,243 --> 00:33:57,873 -Did you develop a relationship with Mr. Anthony? 627 00:33:57,912 --> 00:33:59,752 -Yes, sir, I did. 628 00:33:59,789 --> 00:34:01,919 -She said to me, "I never asked George 629 00:34:01,958 --> 00:34:03,878 about what he's going through. 630 00:34:03,918 --> 00:34:06,918 I just felt bad for him." She felt bad for George, 631 00:34:06,963 --> 00:34:09,723 and he just started to unburden himself. 632 00:34:09,758 --> 00:34:13,138 -And I was sitting on the floor, 633 00:34:13,178 --> 00:34:16,098 and he had told me -- he had said 634 00:34:16,139 --> 00:34:19,309 it was an accident that snowballed out of control. 635 00:34:19,351 --> 00:34:22,021 -And I think the jurors probably believed that. 636 00:34:22,062 --> 00:34:24,362 I think they found her to be a credible witness. 637 00:34:24,397 --> 00:34:26,857 I think her testimony definitely brought up questions 638 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,110 about George and the way that he was acting. 639 00:34:30,153 --> 00:34:33,993 -Were you present in your home 640 00:34:34,032 --> 00:34:37,582 when Caylee Anthony died? 641 00:34:37,619 --> 00:34:41,249 -No, and when I heard that today, it's really bad, 642 00:34:41,289 --> 00:34:42,999 because if I would have known something would've happened 643 00:34:43,041 --> 00:34:45,961 to Caylee, we wouldn't be here today. 644 00:34:46,002 --> 00:34:47,422 -Based on the jury's statements, 645 00:34:47,462 --> 00:34:50,172 they definitely questioned George's involvement. 646 00:35:07,065 --> 00:35:09,145 The day of Caylee's disappearance, 647 00:35:09,192 --> 00:35:11,152 they felt like his story for that day 648 00:35:11,194 --> 00:35:12,454 was a little bit too perfect. 649 00:35:12,487 --> 00:35:14,027 You know, he was able to remember the exact 650 00:35:14,072 --> 00:35:15,452 color socks everyone was wearing. 651 00:35:15,490 --> 00:35:18,280 -I remember Caylee coming out from Casey's room 652 00:35:18,326 --> 00:35:20,116 dressed in a nice little pink top, 653 00:35:20,161 --> 00:35:21,451 she had her blue jeans, 654 00:35:21,496 --> 00:35:24,456 little shorts on, her white sandals, 655 00:35:24,499 --> 00:35:28,459 pink socks, white sunglasses, her hair pulled back. 656 00:35:28,503 --> 00:35:30,673 -You go back and you look at his other testimony. 657 00:35:30,714 --> 00:35:33,634 He couldn't remember things that he should have a memory of. 658 00:35:33,675 --> 00:35:36,925 -What did Cindy wear that day? 659 00:35:36,970 --> 00:35:38,470 -I have no idea. 660 00:35:38,513 --> 00:35:40,273 I couldn't tell you. 661 00:35:40,306 --> 00:35:41,466 -From the jurors' perspective, 662 00:35:41,516 --> 00:35:43,136 there are two suspects in this case. 663 00:35:43,184 --> 00:35:44,644 They were both not telling the truth 664 00:35:44,686 --> 00:35:46,516 about what happened that day. 665 00:35:46,563 --> 00:35:49,193 I didn't really understand why George was trying so hard 666 00:35:49,232 --> 00:35:51,112 to put his daughter on death row. 667 00:35:51,151 --> 00:35:53,281 -What was your impression of George? 668 00:35:53,319 --> 00:35:58,369 -You know, he's a former cop, and you could see that in him. 669 00:35:58,408 --> 00:36:02,908 You know, he was sort of not as emotional 670 00:36:02,954 --> 00:36:05,334 as you would expect someone to be in a situation like that, 671 00:36:05,373 --> 00:36:08,043 at least in my dealings with him, 672 00:36:08,084 --> 00:36:09,504 perhaps because he'd been around. 673 00:36:09,544 --> 00:36:11,134 You know, that was interesting to me. 674 00:36:11,171 --> 00:36:14,721 And then, of course, he had his secrets, too. 675 00:36:14,758 --> 00:36:16,428 -But I know it was 10 minutes to 1:00 because I was watching 676 00:36:16,468 --> 00:36:19,048 this Food Channel thing that I watch. 677 00:36:19,095 --> 00:36:22,095 -And it's your testimony that both. 678 00:36:22,140 --> 00:36:27,060 Casey and Caylee left the house at 12:50? 679 00:36:27,103 --> 00:36:30,233 -12:50 or shortly thereafter. Yes, sir. 680 00:36:32,692 --> 00:36:36,402 -Through the Public Records Act, we got the cellphone records. 681 00:36:36,446 --> 00:36:40,986 We were able to pinpoint where Casey's cellphone was 682 00:36:41,034 --> 00:36:43,124 pretty much all the time. 683 00:36:43,161 --> 00:36:46,461 On that day when George said she left with Caylee 684 00:36:46,498 --> 00:36:49,248 to go to work and visit the nanny, 685 00:36:49,292 --> 00:36:51,252 we could see that was not true. 686 00:36:51,294 --> 00:36:53,214 Our records show she was at or near that house 687 00:36:53,254 --> 00:36:56,554 that entire day until 4:11 in the afternoon 688 00:36:56,591 --> 00:36:59,641 when she left and headed toward Tony's apartment. 689 00:36:59,678 --> 00:37:02,138 We have the cell locations of where she was. 690 00:37:02,180 --> 00:37:05,560 But to fill in the gaps, we have the computer records. 691 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,140 At 2:51 that afternoon, 692 00:37:08,186 --> 00:37:12,266 someone searches for the term "foolproof suffocation." 693 00:37:12,315 --> 00:37:16,315 That computer was started up at 2:49 that afternoon. 694 00:37:16,361 --> 00:37:19,201 We authenticated the stuff as much as possible, 695 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,529 and we are certain that our times are right. 696 00:37:25,245 --> 00:37:27,455 -Do you remember the Internet searches? 697 00:37:27,497 --> 00:37:30,577 "At 2:49, whilst Casey's cellphone 698 00:37:30,625 --> 00:37:32,245 is pinging a tower nearest the home, 699 00:37:32,293 --> 00:37:34,253 the Anthonys' family desktop computer's activated 700 00:37:34,295 --> 00:37:37,005 by someone using Casey's password-protected account. 701 00:37:37,048 --> 00:37:40,428 At 2:51, someone does a search for 'foolproof suffocation,' 702 00:37:40,468 --> 00:37:43,048 clicking on several pro-suicide websites." 703 00:37:43,096 --> 00:37:45,426 -Right. Wasn't me. 704 00:37:45,473 --> 00:37:47,353 I can tell you that. Everyone had each other's 705 00:37:47,392 --> 00:37:50,982 passwords because it was the family computer. 706 00:37:51,021 --> 00:37:53,521 But I didn't make those searches. 707 00:37:53,565 --> 00:37:56,185 -Do you think it's possible your dad did that 708 00:37:56,234 --> 00:37:59,404 2:51 p.m. search if he was at work at 3:00? 709 00:37:59,446 --> 00:38:02,986 -Where he worked and where our house was located 710 00:38:03,033 --> 00:38:04,663 was less than 10 minutes. 711 00:38:04,701 --> 00:38:06,491 There was enough time for him to have been home, 712 00:38:06,536 --> 00:38:08,996 still made those searches, and then left for work. 713 00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,209 -At 3:02, we have George using his cell 714 00:38:11,249 --> 00:38:13,709 to call the house landline. -Okay. 715 00:38:13,752 --> 00:38:15,712 But where was his phone pinging at that point? 716 00:38:15,754 --> 00:38:19,674 Was it pinging at work or was it pinging closer to the house? 717 00:38:19,716 --> 00:38:21,466 -We don't know 'cause we don't have George's cellphone records. 718 00:38:21,509 --> 00:38:23,219 -That's also part of the problem. 719 00:38:23,261 --> 00:38:25,561 We don't have George's cellphone records. 720 00:38:27,057 --> 00:38:29,427 -And I was like, "Why did we not get George's phone records?" 721 00:38:29,476 --> 00:38:31,476 And I don't know if they subpoenaed them, 722 00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:33,359 but I sure would have loved to have had them. 723 00:38:33,396 --> 00:38:35,396 When did he leave the house, you know? 724 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,490 Did he go around the corner where the body was dumped? 725 00:38:39,527 --> 00:38:42,357 What time? When did he get to work? 726 00:38:42,405 --> 00:38:44,695 I mean, I don't know... 727 00:38:44,741 --> 00:38:47,331 I don't know why they either didn't have them 728 00:38:47,369 --> 00:38:48,329 or didn't turn them over to us, 729 00:38:48,370 --> 00:38:50,830 because I don't know. 730 00:38:50,872 --> 00:38:52,462 I just don't know. 731 00:38:55,418 --> 00:38:57,418 -Did you subpoena George's phone? 732 00:38:57,462 --> 00:39:00,052 -I don't remember. I mean, I know at the time, 733 00:39:00,090 --> 00:39:02,130 I mean, this has been years. 734 00:39:02,175 --> 00:39:04,545 I believe we subpoenaed a number of phones, 735 00:39:04,594 --> 00:39:09,144 but I don't recall whose and what we subpoenaed. 736 00:39:09,182 --> 00:39:11,182 I just don't remember. 737 00:39:11,226 --> 00:39:13,556 -I was able to verify. Yes, we did have 738 00:39:13,603 --> 00:39:16,363 George Anthony's cellphone records. 739 00:39:16,398 --> 00:39:18,398 -Do those include cell tower locations? 740 00:39:18,441 --> 00:39:20,611 -No, they do not have cell tower information. 741 00:39:20,652 --> 00:39:23,362 -Would that information have been useful to you 742 00:39:23,405 --> 00:39:27,325 being able to determine Mr. George Anthony's movement? 743 00:39:27,367 --> 00:39:29,737 -Yes, if I had a reason to even believe 744 00:39:29,786 --> 00:39:31,956 that that would play a part in this case, 745 00:39:31,996 --> 00:39:33,746 which at the time I did not. 746 00:39:33,790 --> 00:39:39,340 ** 747 00:39:39,379 --> 00:39:43,339 -Yeah, I mean, look, I say it again, 748 00:39:43,383 --> 00:39:46,183 I don't think George had anything to do with it. 749 00:39:46,219 --> 00:39:48,429 -Did George ever lie to you? 750 00:39:50,181 --> 00:39:53,441 -Well, yeah, at different points in time. 751 00:39:53,476 --> 00:39:56,646 I mean, everybody -- just about everybody in the family 752 00:39:56,688 --> 00:39:59,518 told us one thing or another that wasn't true. 753 00:39:59,566 --> 00:40:04,566 So yeah, we were lied to throughout the investigation. 754 00:40:04,612 --> 00:40:07,452 Being a liar doesn't make somebody a murderer. 755 00:40:07,490 --> 00:40:10,160 ** 756 00:40:21,212 --> 00:40:23,342 -At the time, my nightmares start to increase 757 00:40:23,381 --> 00:40:26,341 based off of what happened in court. 758 00:40:26,384 --> 00:40:29,394 -Within somewhere probably close to about a three-foot area 759 00:40:29,429 --> 00:40:32,639 of the passenger side of the car, 760 00:40:32,682 --> 00:40:37,232 I did smell a pretty -- pretty strong odor. 761 00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:40,940 -Was that the odor of a human corpse? 762 00:40:40,982 --> 00:40:42,282 -Yes. 763 00:40:42,317 --> 00:40:43,817 -During that 31 days, 764 00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:48,320 I ran out of gas in front of that cash checking place. 765 00:40:48,365 --> 00:40:50,695 And my dad was supposed to go pick up the car. 766 00:40:50,742 --> 00:40:52,622 He said, "Don't worry about it. Just leave it there. 767 00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:54,450 Park it somewhere where I can find it." 768 00:40:54,496 --> 00:40:58,626 So I had two guys off the road help me push it in. 769 00:40:58,667 --> 00:41:02,127 And there was no smell when I even left my car that day. 770 00:41:02,170 --> 00:41:05,170 I don't know what a dead body smells like. 771 00:41:05,215 --> 00:41:08,635 But I know what rotten garbage smells like. 772 00:41:08,677 --> 00:41:10,347 I left garbage in the car. 773 00:41:10,387 --> 00:41:12,967 There were three bags and a pizza box. 774 00:41:13,014 --> 00:41:15,314 I only threw away two of the bags. 775 00:41:15,350 --> 00:41:17,230 I forgot that I had even taken the garbage 776 00:41:17,268 --> 00:41:19,148 because I got so distracted by a phone call 777 00:41:19,187 --> 00:41:20,977 when I was throwing the garbage out. 778 00:41:21,022 --> 00:41:24,782 So I just closed the trunk instinctually and left. 779 00:41:24,818 --> 00:41:28,238 After the 31 days, I know when I got home 780 00:41:28,279 --> 00:41:30,659 and that car was there, and there was a smell, 781 00:41:30,699 --> 00:41:32,579 and it's something I have, to this day, have still never 782 00:41:32,617 --> 00:41:34,487 smelled and don't ever want to smell again. 783 00:41:34,536 --> 00:41:38,666 I've never smelled that in my life even prior to. 784 00:41:38,707 --> 00:41:42,377 -You're smelling her car that smells like a dead body, 785 00:41:42,419 --> 00:41:43,999 and you don't call the police? 786 00:41:44,045 --> 00:41:45,505 -No, sir, I did not. 787 00:41:45,547 --> 00:41:50,717 -And you don't call your daughter to see if she's okay? 788 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:55,020 -I didn't call my daughter at that time. 789 00:41:55,056 --> 00:41:56,306 -And you don't call your daughter 790 00:41:56,349 --> 00:41:58,769 to see if Caylee's okay? 791 00:41:58,810 --> 00:42:02,440 -I didn't call my daughter to inquire about her or Caylee 792 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,150 at that time. I did not. 793 00:42:04,190 --> 00:42:07,360 And as a detective, you know 794 00:42:07,402 --> 00:42:09,652 that if you smell a dead body in a car 795 00:42:09,696 --> 00:42:14,076 that that's a potential crime scene? 796 00:42:14,117 --> 00:42:16,077 -At the time, sir, I wasn't a detective. 797 00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:18,619 I am just a father and a grandfather. 798 00:42:21,624 --> 00:42:25,254 -Jose's bringing that up because my father would know 799 00:42:25,295 --> 00:42:28,915 protocol and procedure, 800 00:42:28,965 --> 00:42:30,835 how to work a scene. 801 00:42:32,677 --> 00:42:34,427 Again, he didn't inquire 802 00:42:34,471 --> 00:42:38,271 to where I was that day because he knew. 803 00:42:38,308 --> 00:42:39,848 He didn't inquire to where Caylee was 804 00:42:39,893 --> 00:42:42,853 because he was the only one who knew where she was. 805 00:42:46,775 --> 00:42:50,195 I'm sitting there staring daggers at this man... 806 00:42:51,613 --> 00:42:53,703 ...because I'm one of the only people who knows the truth 807 00:42:53,740 --> 00:42:55,700 about who and what he is. 808 00:42:57,619 --> 00:43:02,459 It took so long for me to get to that point. 809 00:43:02,499 --> 00:43:04,579 So long. 810 00:43:04,626 --> 00:43:06,206 And I get that's not something 811 00:43:06,252 --> 00:43:07,752 that people really get or understand, 812 00:43:07,796 --> 00:43:11,586 but it's like you have Stockholm syndrome. 813 00:43:11,633 --> 00:43:14,643 He was the state of Florida's first witness against me, 814 00:43:14,678 --> 00:43:19,308 and he was a knowing and willing participant. 815 00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:24,849 He knew that his actions, his behavior, his words 816 00:43:24,896 --> 00:43:26,816 could potentially kill me. 817 00:43:28,566 --> 00:43:33,106 -And I can't imagine being used as a tool of the state 818 00:43:33,154 --> 00:43:35,244 to try to kill one of my children. 819 00:43:35,281 --> 00:43:38,621 He seemed fairly enthusiastic in that role. 820 00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:43,960 When George Anthony became the star witness for the state, 821 00:43:43,998 --> 00:43:48,628 when the goal of the state was to kill his daughter, 822 00:43:48,670 --> 00:43:50,170 he lost me. 823 00:43:50,213 --> 00:43:52,303 He lost me right then. 824 00:43:52,340 --> 00:43:54,630 -George was the star witness. 825 00:43:54,676 --> 00:43:57,296 And he also was the star witness in front of the grand jury 826 00:43:57,345 --> 00:44:00,305 to make the indictment what it was. 827 00:44:00,348 --> 00:44:02,138 So the real question is, if you were telling people 828 00:44:02,183 --> 00:44:03,813 behind the scenes it was an accident, 829 00:44:03,852 --> 00:44:06,482 would you testify as a star witness in a trial 830 00:44:06,521 --> 00:44:10,191 that would get your child death for that accident? 831 00:44:12,402 --> 00:44:15,822 -I have to admit, what you just told me, 832 00:44:15,864 --> 00:44:20,294 and hearing that he was the grand jury's star witness 833 00:44:20,326 --> 00:44:23,536 to try to get the death penalty for his own kid, 834 00:44:23,580 --> 00:44:26,040 I have never heard that before. 835 00:44:26,082 --> 00:44:28,382 And that's... 836 00:44:28,418 --> 00:44:31,378 [ Sighs ] ...that's shocking. 837 00:44:31,421 --> 00:44:34,381 Why, if you did think it was an accident, 838 00:44:34,424 --> 00:44:38,224 would you want the death penalty? 839 00:44:38,261 --> 00:44:41,011 That doesn't make any sense. 840 00:44:41,056 --> 00:44:42,886 That... 841 00:44:48,271 --> 00:44:50,021 Oh, my God. 842 00:44:50,065 --> 00:44:55,525 ** 843 00:44:55,570 --> 00:44:57,950 -Like, that is, like -- 844 00:44:57,989 --> 00:45:02,659 how would you -- why would you put yourself in the situation? 845 00:45:02,702 --> 00:45:07,042 Or even, like -- even flirt with the idea that it will end up 846 00:45:07,082 --> 00:45:09,712 with your daughter being, like, 847 00:45:09,751 --> 00:45:13,591 you know, going to the death penalty? 848 00:45:13,630 --> 00:45:16,170 -Right, so that's the situation we have with George. 849 00:45:16,216 --> 00:45:20,216 Why did he want his daughter to die for an accident? 850 00:45:20,261 --> 00:45:24,931 ** 851 00:45:24,974 --> 00:45:26,814 -I have no idea. 852 00:45:28,770 --> 00:45:32,320 Covering up his own tracks or something, I guess. 853 00:45:34,275 --> 00:45:35,685 Like, that's the only thing that -- 854 00:45:35,735 --> 00:45:40,565 that's the only logical reason I could think. 855 00:45:40,615 --> 00:45:42,865 This is blowing my mind right now. 856 00:45:44,452 --> 00:45:46,002 Holy shit. 857 00:45:46,037 --> 00:45:51,207 ** 858 00:45:51,251 --> 00:45:53,251 Do you mind if I take, like, a five-minute break? 859 00:45:53,294 --> 00:45:54,424 [ Laughs ] 860 00:45:54,462 --> 00:45:56,052 I need to, like, 861 00:45:56,089 --> 00:45:58,089 recollect my thoughts here. 862 00:45:58,133 --> 00:46:00,973 Holy shit. 863 00:46:01,011 --> 00:46:02,641 [ Sighs ] 864 00:46:02,679 --> 00:46:09,809 ** 865 00:46:14,691 --> 00:46:16,861 ** 866 00:46:16,901 --> 00:46:19,781 -We are back with my exclusive interview with George Anthony, 867 00:46:19,821 --> 00:46:24,331 who's recovering from a car crash that nearly took his life. 868 00:46:26,786 --> 00:46:28,496 You look better than I expected. 869 00:46:28,538 --> 00:46:29,998 -Thank you. -How you doing? 870 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:31,540 -I'm doing good. 871 00:46:31,583 --> 00:46:36,133 -A few years ago, he'd been in a severe car accident. 872 00:46:36,171 --> 00:46:38,131 -Has your daughter called you? 873 00:46:38,173 --> 00:46:39,763 Has Casey reached out? 874 00:46:39,799 --> 00:46:41,629 -She did reach out to ask how I was. 875 00:46:41,676 --> 00:46:43,926 -Would you like to see her? -No, I didn't. 876 00:46:43,970 --> 00:46:45,810 I'll be honest. -I mean, honestly, I would. 877 00:46:45,847 --> 00:46:47,597 I would like to just tell her I'm sorry. 878 00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,190 You know, that I-I forgive her. 879 00:46:50,226 --> 00:46:54,106 I forgive her, I -- and that's hard for me to say. 880 00:46:54,147 --> 00:46:55,517 But you know what? 881 00:46:55,565 --> 00:46:58,225 I need to be forgiven by her and my son 882 00:46:58,276 --> 00:47:00,146 and other family members or friends 883 00:47:00,195 --> 00:47:01,645 that I care so much about. 884 00:47:01,696 --> 00:47:04,616 Forgive me for what I've done to all of our lives. 885 00:47:04,657 --> 00:47:08,197 -It was an accident. -What would you forgive her for? 886 00:47:08,244 --> 00:47:09,294 -I'm sorry, what? 887 00:47:09,329 --> 00:47:11,999 -For what she has put -- 888 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,670 -Uh, yeah, she asked the question. 889 00:47:13,708 --> 00:47:14,878 I want to know the answer to that. 890 00:47:14,918 --> 00:47:17,088 What does he need to be forgiven for? 891 00:47:19,339 --> 00:47:21,629 I'm sorry. Can you play that back? 892 00:47:21,675 --> 00:47:24,335 -I need to be forgiven by her and my son 893 00:47:24,386 --> 00:47:26,216 and other family members or friends 894 00:47:26,262 --> 00:47:27,722 that I care so much about. 895 00:47:27,764 --> 00:47:30,774 Forgive me for what I've done to all of our lives. 896 00:47:30,809 --> 00:47:33,399 -What do you want her to forgive you for? 897 00:47:35,772 --> 00:47:36,942 -I don't know, I guess that's something 898 00:47:36,981 --> 00:47:39,731 I'll have to wait to hear from her. 899 00:47:42,737 --> 00:47:45,527 -Okay. 900 00:47:45,573 --> 00:47:47,913 What does he need to be forgiven for? 901 00:47:50,245 --> 00:47:51,905 What did he do? 902 00:47:51,955 --> 00:47:55,915 ** 903 00:47:55,959 --> 00:47:58,879 I could still report him for what he did to me. 904 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,670 There's no statute of limitations 905 00:48:00,714 --> 00:48:04,804 in the state of Florida for what he did to me, to us. 906 00:48:04,843 --> 00:48:10,683 ** 907 00:48:10,724 --> 00:48:13,734 I remember my father said something 908 00:48:13,768 --> 00:48:17,608 during the course of my case. 909 00:48:17,647 --> 00:48:22,737 I don't remember if it was in an interview or who he said it to. 910 00:48:22,777 --> 00:48:25,737 I'm pretty sure it was actually public. 911 00:48:25,780 --> 00:48:26,990 But he said he used to love 912 00:48:27,032 --> 00:48:30,952 the sweet smell of Caylee's sweat. 913 00:48:30,994 --> 00:48:34,124 -Casey, he said that at Caylee's funeral. 914 00:48:35,331 --> 00:48:36,371 -[ Chuckles ] 915 00:48:36,416 --> 00:48:38,536 Was it really? 916 00:48:38,585 --> 00:48:41,585 Of course he did. 917 00:48:41,629 --> 00:48:43,759 Of course he did. 918 00:48:45,759 --> 00:48:49,889 What better way to memorialize your granddaughter 919 00:48:49,929 --> 00:48:53,099 than to tell the world that you were abusing her, too? 920 00:48:54,768 --> 00:48:57,478 [ Voice breaking ] I'm gonna need a break. 921 00:49:00,523 --> 00:49:02,613 I need a minute, I'm sorry. 922 00:49:02,650 --> 00:49:05,280 ** 923 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:06,990 [ Sniffles ] 924 00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:09,410 [ Sobbing ] 925 00:49:09,449 --> 00:49:15,619 ** 926 00:49:21,169 --> 00:49:24,509 ** 927 00:49:28,510 --> 00:49:33,060 ** 928 00:49:33,098 --> 00:49:35,178 [ Sighs ] 929 00:49:47,946 --> 00:49:49,986 ** 930 00:49:57,539 --> 00:49:59,579 Sorry, is the mic good still? 931 00:49:59,624 --> 00:50:01,254 Okay? -Yeah. 932 00:50:01,292 --> 00:50:03,592 -Okay. 933 00:50:03,628 --> 00:50:05,758 Sorry. 934 00:50:10,343 --> 00:50:17,523 ** 935 00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:20,479 [ Sighs ] 936 00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,820 -So... 937 00:50:23,857 --> 00:50:26,527 -You're going to ask that question -- 938 00:50:26,568 --> 00:50:28,858 not today. 939 00:50:28,903 --> 00:50:30,743 -What do you think my question was going to be? 940 00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:33,030 -What happened? 941 00:50:33,074 --> 00:50:35,294 It was written all over your face. 942 00:50:35,326 --> 00:50:39,036 And I'm telling you, I'm not ready to answer. 943 00:50:49,841 --> 00:50:52,511 -We talked about showing you the footage 944 00:50:52,552 --> 00:50:55,142 of the memorial that you had never seen. 945 00:50:55,180 --> 00:50:58,560 -Right. -Are you ready to watch that? 946 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,900 -I don't want to do this, but I know I need to. 947 00:51:03,772 --> 00:51:05,482 -God, we're here to remember and honor 948 00:51:05,523 --> 00:51:08,743 and thank you for a beautiful gift 949 00:51:08,777 --> 00:51:11,737 named Caylee Marie Anthony. 950 00:51:11,780 --> 00:51:14,660 And so, Lord, we want to celebrate 951 00:51:14,699 --> 00:51:17,489 a life, though it was short, 952 00:51:17,535 --> 00:51:23,995 while the impact that she will have for generations to come. 953 00:51:24,042 --> 00:51:28,132 Lord, we pray for George and Cindy. 954 00:51:30,590 --> 00:51:34,510 -I wasn't allowed to be at her funeral. 955 00:51:34,552 --> 00:51:37,602 I was sitting in jail under indictment. 956 00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:40,349 -[ Indistinct singing ] 957 00:51:40,392 --> 00:51:48,402 ** 958 00:51:48,441 --> 00:51:50,821 -This wasn't something personal. 959 00:51:50,860 --> 00:51:55,820 I begged my mom to have a private, quiet funeral. 960 00:51:59,577 --> 00:52:03,537 -I stand here today, proud.. 961 00:52:05,625 --> 00:52:09,585 ...to be the grandfather of Caylee Marie Anthony, 962 00:52:09,629 --> 00:52:10,799 who not only meant the world to me, 963 00:52:10,839 --> 00:52:13,929 but meant the world to my family, 964 00:52:13,967 --> 00:52:15,797 and so many of you that never got a chance 965 00:52:15,844 --> 00:52:19,644 to actually hug her, 966 00:52:19,681 --> 00:52:21,771 smell her hair, 967 00:52:21,808 --> 00:52:25,938 smell the sweet sweat when she came in from outside. 968 00:52:25,979 --> 00:52:29,819 -Are you fucking kidding me? -To hear her call me JoJo. 969 00:52:29,858 --> 00:52:33,948 I missed that kiss on the cheek, 970 00:52:33,987 --> 00:52:36,197 that special hug that -- I tell everyone 971 00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,699 it's so great to get a hug from someone. 972 00:52:39,743 --> 00:52:43,083 But to get a hug from a small child, 973 00:52:43,121 --> 00:52:46,881 that gives me energy like you couldn't imagine. 974 00:52:46,916 --> 00:52:57,216 ** 975 00:52:57,260 --> 00:53:00,010 -That's not normal. 976 00:53:00,055 --> 00:53:03,805 Nothing about that is fucking normal. 977 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:10,070 You're outright telling the world that you're a pedophile. 978 00:53:12,650 --> 00:53:15,200 Jesus Christ. 979 00:53:16,571 --> 00:53:19,161 -I'm not going to say how much I'm going to miss things 980 00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:20,909 that I won't be able to do with her, because someday 981 00:53:20,950 --> 00:53:24,790 I'll be able to hold her hand again in God's heaven. 982 00:53:24,829 --> 00:53:26,369 I'll be able to take her in wagon rides. 983 00:53:26,414 --> 00:53:29,714 I'll be able to kiss her. I'll be able to smell her again. 984 00:53:29,751 --> 00:53:32,921 -[ Exhales deeply ] 985 00:53:36,591 --> 00:53:38,971 -What are you thinking? 986 00:53:39,010 --> 00:53:45,850 ** 987 00:53:45,892 --> 00:53:48,902 -A lot more things make sense. 988 00:53:50,730 --> 00:53:53,860 That's not necessarily a good thing. 989 00:53:56,486 --> 00:53:58,276 -What things make sense? 990 00:54:01,908 --> 00:54:04,578 -I know what he did to me. 991 00:54:04,619 --> 00:54:07,159 And that was my fear. 992 00:54:09,791 --> 00:54:13,091 I have one job to keep her safe. 993 00:54:13,128 --> 00:54:15,548 As a parent, that's your most important job, 994 00:54:15,588 --> 00:54:18,508 is to keep your kid safe. 995 00:54:18,550 --> 00:54:20,970 As a kid who was abused... 996 00:54:24,431 --> 00:54:27,391 ...you don't ever want to see that happen to another kid, 997 00:54:27,434 --> 00:54:29,944 especially not your own. 998 00:54:32,063 --> 00:54:35,693 -If you're honest with yourself, Casey, did you do everything 999 00:54:35,734 --> 00:54:38,784 in your power to protect your daughter? 1000 00:54:38,820 --> 00:54:41,280 -I thought I did. 1001 00:54:41,322 --> 00:54:43,832 I tried. 1002 00:54:46,244 --> 00:54:48,414 I didn't leave when I should've. I should have 1003 00:54:48,455 --> 00:54:50,455 the moment I found out I was pregnant. 1004 00:54:50,498 --> 00:54:52,288 I should have just left. 1005 00:54:52,334 --> 00:54:56,924 ** 1006 00:54:56,963 --> 00:54:59,843 After Caylee was born, 1007 00:54:59,883 --> 00:55:03,723 my father was around initially. 1008 00:55:03,762 --> 00:55:05,812 He was never left alone with my dad. 1009 00:55:05,847 --> 00:55:08,057 Not even when she was an infant. 1010 00:55:09,684 --> 00:55:11,984 Because I know what I lived through. 1011 00:55:13,730 --> 00:55:17,530 As a kid who was abused, that was my fear. 1012 00:55:17,567 --> 00:55:19,027 -That she wouldn't be safe? 1013 00:55:19,069 --> 00:55:21,029 -That she wouldn't be safe. 1014 00:55:23,323 --> 00:55:30,373 And then my parents' marriage imploded in November of 2005. 1015 00:55:30,413 --> 00:55:31,963 He got caught cheating. 1016 00:55:31,998 --> 00:55:34,458 This time she kicked him out of the house. 1017 00:55:34,501 --> 00:55:40,221 ** 1018 00:55:40,256 --> 00:55:42,506 Caylee was little. She was just 1019 00:55:42,550 --> 00:55:44,590 a couple of months old. 1020 00:55:44,636 --> 00:55:47,846 It was just us, it was just the three girls in the house. 1021 00:55:47,889 --> 00:55:49,849 Her and I and the baby. 1022 00:55:49,891 --> 00:55:53,141 For the first time 1023 00:55:53,186 --> 00:55:56,896 since I was 8 years old, 11 years, 1024 00:55:56,940 --> 00:56:00,400 I finally felt safe because he wasn't there. 1025 00:56:03,905 --> 00:56:07,115 -What do you remember when you watch this? 1026 00:56:07,158 --> 00:56:11,658 -Just being happy. Being -- feeling safe, content. 1027 00:56:11,705 --> 00:56:14,535 He was gone. 1028 00:56:14,582 --> 00:56:19,882 I wasn't worried in these moments that I was with her. 1029 00:56:19,921 --> 00:56:21,761 I wasn't afraid. 1030 00:56:21,798 --> 00:56:28,508 ** 1031 00:56:28,555 --> 00:56:35,055 ** 1032 00:56:35,103 --> 00:56:37,233 But then she let him back. 1033 00:56:40,108 --> 00:56:42,898 I feel like so much of her facade 1034 00:56:42,944 --> 00:56:46,204 was being strong, being independent, 1035 00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,039 being able to take care of everything herself. 1036 00:56:50,076 --> 00:56:53,076 I could see through the cracks in the facade, 1037 00:56:53,121 --> 00:56:57,041 and there was a level of codependency, 1038 00:56:57,083 --> 00:57:00,803 and fear, I'm sure, of being alone. 1039 00:57:00,837 --> 00:57:02,667 I knew from that point forward 1040 00:57:02,714 --> 00:57:05,224 I had to get out as soon as possible. 1041 00:57:05,258 --> 00:57:09,928 I could not live there with those people anymore. 1042 00:57:09,971 --> 00:57:13,061 -Do you remember this? -Of course I do. 1043 00:57:13,099 --> 00:57:15,599 That was my kid. That was my best friend. 1044 00:57:15,643 --> 00:57:17,603 -What do you remember? 1045 00:57:17,645 --> 00:57:19,185 -Not wanting to be home 1046 00:57:19,230 --> 00:57:22,820 because both of my parents were there. 1047 00:57:24,319 --> 00:57:26,029 -Hey, look! 1048 00:57:26,071 --> 00:57:29,571 -He had just moved back in a little bit before this. 1049 00:57:29,616 --> 00:57:35,996 ** 1050 00:57:36,039 --> 00:57:37,499 I was trying to work as much as I could 1051 00:57:37,540 --> 00:57:40,380 and not tell very many people where I was working, 1052 00:57:40,418 --> 00:57:43,298 what I was doing, how I was making money, 1053 00:57:43,338 --> 00:57:45,508 because I wanted an exit plan for Caylee 1054 00:57:45,548 --> 00:57:47,968 and I to get out of that house, to get away from those people, 1055 00:57:48,009 --> 00:57:49,639 and to start over. 1056 00:57:49,678 --> 00:57:57,438 ** 1057 00:57:59,062 --> 00:58:00,312 -Where are we, Casey? 1058 00:58:00,355 --> 00:58:04,145 -We're in the back lot at Universal. 1059 00:58:05,860 --> 00:58:12,330 I worked at Universal Studios between 2004 and 2006 1060 00:58:12,367 --> 00:58:17,327 as a third-party contractor with Eastman Kodak, 1061 00:58:17,372 --> 00:58:20,172 and I left when our contract expired 1062 00:58:20,208 --> 00:58:23,038 and another company was coming in. 1063 00:58:24,337 --> 00:58:26,837 At that point, I transitioned into 1064 00:58:26,881 --> 00:58:29,341 working in the nightlife, bartending, 1065 00:58:29,384 --> 00:58:32,394 and I was making a lot of side cash. 1066 00:58:34,764 --> 00:58:37,684 I had been telling my mom that I was still working at Universal 1067 00:58:37,726 --> 00:58:39,346 since I left Universal 1068 00:58:39,394 --> 00:58:41,194 because I didn't want her asking questions 1069 00:58:41,229 --> 00:58:43,899 about where I was getting extra money from 1070 00:58:43,940 --> 00:58:47,360 and why I had it and why it was all in cash. 1071 00:58:47,402 --> 00:58:49,452 I didn't want her to know my plan to leave 1072 00:58:49,487 --> 00:58:52,567 until I was ready to tell her that I was moving away. 1073 00:58:52,615 --> 00:58:54,985 If I told her anything, she would have done everything 1074 00:58:55,035 --> 00:58:57,365 in her power to stop me, guilted me into staying, 1075 00:58:57,412 --> 00:58:59,372 because I know there was part of her 1076 00:58:59,414 --> 00:59:03,344 that was living vicariously, even through my existence. 1077 00:59:03,376 --> 00:59:05,586 Because she wasn't happy with her own. 1078 00:59:05,628 --> 00:59:08,968 You have no idea the guilt trip she would lay on me the moment 1079 00:59:09,007 --> 00:59:11,047 I would make a decision for myself, 1080 00:59:11,092 --> 00:59:14,222 let alone a decision for my daughter. 1081 00:59:14,262 --> 00:59:18,852 No idea how hard that was. 1082 00:59:18,892 --> 00:59:25,942 ** 1083 00:59:25,982 --> 00:59:27,572 During that time, 1084 00:59:27,609 --> 00:59:30,069 it's not just that I was lying to my mom. 1085 00:59:30,111 --> 00:59:31,401 I also wasn't being honest 1086 00:59:31,446 --> 00:59:33,236 with a lot of the people who were in my life 1087 00:59:33,281 --> 00:59:36,331 because I didn't want things getting back to my mom. 1088 00:59:36,368 --> 00:59:38,448 So I told them that I was still working events 1089 00:59:38,495 --> 00:59:42,865 at universal, or that I was even, at that point, 1090 00:59:42,916 --> 00:59:44,956 working other separate events. 1091 00:59:47,128 --> 00:59:49,508 This is Sawgrass Apartments. 1092 00:59:52,342 --> 00:59:55,972 This was the place that 1093 00:59:56,012 --> 00:59:58,392 Zenaida Gonzalez, or Zanny the Nanny, 1094 00:59:58,431 --> 01:00:04,481 as she was referred to, was allegedly living. 1095 01:00:07,607 --> 01:00:09,647 Caylee was either with me at night or with my mom. 1096 01:00:09,693 --> 01:00:12,403 There was no third party. There was no other person. 1097 01:00:12,445 --> 01:00:16,445 I didn't trust anyone else to watch her overnight. 1098 01:00:16,491 --> 01:00:20,541 The whole nanny thing started because there were times 1099 01:00:20,578 --> 01:00:23,118 where I wanted to have a night with my friends, 1100 01:00:23,164 --> 01:00:24,794 but I also wanted to have my daughter there with me 1101 01:00:24,833 --> 01:00:27,673 because I knew my father was going to be home. 1102 01:00:27,711 --> 01:00:30,131 So I told my mom, "I'm going to drop her off 1103 01:00:30,171 --> 01:00:32,301 with my friend Zanny." 1104 01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:33,970 You know, that was kind of how that started 1105 01:00:34,009 --> 01:00:37,009 when Caylee was actually with me. 1106 01:00:37,053 --> 01:00:38,303 They weren't necessarily innocent lies. 1107 01:00:38,346 --> 01:00:39,636 They were lies and I was an adult 1108 01:00:39,681 --> 01:00:41,811 and it's the stupidest thing, but it's -- 1109 01:00:41,850 --> 01:00:43,520 again, it was like all of a sudden in my 20s, 1110 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,310 I'm rebelling as a parent to have freedom. 1111 01:00:47,355 --> 01:00:49,685 And it wasn't the right thing. 1112 01:00:51,735 --> 01:00:55,155 -Let's go to the day where you tell law enforcement 1113 01:00:55,196 --> 01:00:57,156 about Zanny the Nanny. 1114 01:00:57,198 --> 01:00:59,078 Your dad told you say that? 1115 01:00:59,117 --> 01:01:03,457 -Told me to tell the cops what I told my mom. 1116 01:01:03,496 --> 01:01:08,336 Wanted me to be the biggest and best liar that I could be. 1117 01:01:08,376 --> 01:01:11,166 That's not what he said, but that's how I see it now, 1118 01:01:11,212 --> 01:01:13,922 because my father knew that if they looked at me 1119 01:01:13,965 --> 01:01:16,045 and that I was lying to them, they weren't going to believe 1120 01:01:16,092 --> 01:01:17,682 anything that I said, 1121 01:01:17,719 --> 01:01:23,349 even if, at that point, I said my father did all of this. 1122 01:01:23,391 --> 01:01:25,351 He knew. 1123 01:01:28,646 --> 01:01:31,516 -You felt that your dad had basically kidnapped her. 1124 01:01:31,566 --> 01:01:35,026 -And was keeping her from me, yes. 1125 01:01:35,070 --> 01:01:36,700 That whole time. 1126 01:01:36,738 --> 01:01:38,868 -Even though you felt that body in your arms 1127 01:01:38,907 --> 01:01:40,657 and you knew that something was terribly wrong. 1128 01:01:40,700 --> 01:01:43,410 -He told me she was going to be okay. 1129 01:01:43,453 --> 01:01:46,713 It's what I chose to accept. 1130 01:01:46,748 --> 01:01:48,668 There was that little girl inside of me 1131 01:01:48,708 --> 01:01:51,248 that wanted to believe he wouldn't hurt her 1132 01:01:51,294 --> 01:01:54,554 the way he hurt me. 1133 01:01:54,589 --> 01:01:56,299 -And you didn't think that there was any way 1134 01:01:56,341 --> 01:01:59,471 she could have drowned and he found her in the pool? 1135 01:02:00,303 --> 01:02:02,723 -No. -Even initially? 1136 01:02:02,764 --> 01:02:05,524 -No, she had no way of getting the pool. 1137 01:02:05,558 --> 01:02:07,728 There was nothing for her to have shimmied up. 1138 01:02:07,769 --> 01:02:10,729 To me, there's no way of explaining that... 1139 01:02:12,857 --> 01:02:15,437 ...unless he put her in the... 1140 01:02:16,695 --> 01:02:18,695 [ Sighs ] 1141 01:02:18,738 --> 01:02:21,738 Unless put her in the pool to cover up what he did. 1142 01:02:21,783 --> 01:02:26,083 ** 1143 01:02:26,121 --> 01:02:27,831 So if he decided to call the police 1144 01:02:27,872 --> 01:02:30,792 or if I decided to call the police... 1145 01:02:32,502 --> 01:02:34,302 ...that they would have looked at it as a drowning 1146 01:02:34,337 --> 01:02:36,757 and not actually examined her body. 1147 01:02:36,798 --> 01:02:40,758 ** 1148 01:02:40,802 --> 01:02:45,142 I'm sure there were times where I was incapacitated as a child, 1149 01:02:45,181 --> 01:02:48,231 where my body was limp and lifeless. 1150 01:02:48,268 --> 01:02:50,938 That's what I think about. I wish every day 1151 01:02:50,979 --> 01:02:54,519 I would have said something to somebody at some point. 1152 01:02:58,153 --> 01:03:01,663 Maybe things would be different. 1153 01:03:01,698 --> 01:03:03,618 Probably not. 1154 01:03:03,658 --> 01:03:09,158 ** 1155 01:03:09,205 --> 01:03:10,615 But there's always going to be 1156 01:03:10,665 --> 01:03:13,955 that little part of me that wonders. 1157 01:03:14,002 --> 01:03:15,752 -That wonders? 1158 01:03:15,795 --> 01:03:21,085 ** 1159 01:03:21,134 --> 01:03:22,724 -Because if she was still alive, 1160 01:03:22,761 --> 01:03:26,601 then where was she and what happened from there? 1161 01:03:26,639 --> 01:03:33,689 ** 1162 01:03:33,730 --> 01:03:36,070 Was there something that I could have done 1163 01:03:36,107 --> 01:03:37,937 to have changed things? 1164 01:03:40,779 --> 01:03:42,819 During all this time if she was alive, 1165 01:03:42,864 --> 01:03:45,244 if I didn't do what he said he wanted me to do, 1166 01:03:45,283 --> 01:03:46,833 or if I talked to my mom too much 1167 01:03:46,868 --> 01:03:47,868 or I said the wrong thing, 1168 01:03:47,911 --> 01:03:51,331 would it have triggered something? 1169 01:03:51,373 --> 01:03:54,753 All of my fear 1170 01:03:54,793 --> 01:03:59,513 just keeps becoming bigger and bigger... 1171 01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:03,970 ...as I knew what I lived through. 1172 01:04:07,889 --> 01:04:10,179 It's bad enough I had to imagine that it happened once, 1173 01:04:10,225 --> 01:04:14,435 but then to imagine that it could have kept happening. 1174 01:04:14,479 --> 01:04:17,609 -Did he take her away to abuse her? 1175 01:04:17,649 --> 01:04:20,189 That's the darkest question, isn't it? 1176 01:04:20,235 --> 01:04:28,535 ** 1177 01:04:28,576 --> 01:04:31,576 -That's why all of this is so hard. 1178 01:04:33,581 --> 01:04:36,421 I live with that guilt of feeling like I failed her 1179 01:04:36,459 --> 01:04:39,249 and didn't keep her safe and protect her. 1180 01:04:41,423 --> 01:04:44,553 I've always wanted the truth because I've lived 1181 01:04:44,592 --> 01:04:47,552 so long without it. 1182 01:04:47,595 --> 01:04:50,675 But I don't know if I could handle all of it. 1183 01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:54,560 I don't know if it would be better to know 1184 01:04:54,602 --> 01:04:57,692 or just keep not knowing, 1185 01:04:57,731 --> 01:04:59,441 because I don't know what the truth is. 1186 01:04:59,482 --> 01:05:02,442 All I know is that she's dead. 1187 01:05:03,028 --> 01:05:06,318 That something happened. 1188 01:05:13,371 --> 01:05:20,461 ** 1189 01:05:20,503 --> 01:05:23,263 -I think about this case all the time 1190 01:05:23,298 --> 01:05:25,718 all these years afterwards. 1191 01:05:28,803 --> 01:05:34,393 But, you know, so much added up to George 1192 01:05:34,434 --> 01:05:36,604 hiding this body. 1193 01:05:38,563 --> 01:05:42,613 All I know about incest is oftentimes, 1194 01:05:42,650 --> 01:05:46,610 if he's a pedophile abusing his own daughter, 1195 01:05:46,654 --> 01:05:49,624 as she gets older, as Casey did, 1196 01:05:49,657 --> 01:05:53,037 now we got a little one. He's more into the children. 1197 01:05:53,078 --> 01:05:56,038 And if he's a pedophile, I surmise that maybe 1198 01:05:56,081 --> 01:05:58,791 he had abused the little one, Caylee. 1199 01:05:58,833 --> 01:06:02,303 Maybe he thinks he holds her down long enough 1200 01:06:02,337 --> 01:06:05,587 where she passes out, and he can have his way with her. 1201 01:06:05,632 --> 01:06:09,642 Maybe that started this cover-up of what actually happened. 1202 01:06:09,678 --> 01:06:13,468 I'd like to go into a lot of detail with Casey 1203 01:06:13,515 --> 01:06:17,015 because she was there that day. 1204 01:06:19,938 --> 01:06:23,188 I'd want to go more into that with her. 1205 01:06:23,233 --> 01:06:26,363 What is George's role? 1206 01:06:26,403 --> 01:06:27,703 I think I already have coffee. 1207 01:06:27,737 --> 01:06:29,697 -Do you have coffee? Well, you have 1208 01:06:29,739 --> 01:06:32,829 fancy schmancy new mugs if you want them. 1209 01:06:32,867 --> 01:06:41,457 ** 1210 01:06:41,501 --> 01:06:43,501 [ Sighs ] 1211 01:06:43,545 --> 01:06:45,795 I don't think we've ever sat down in -- 1212 01:06:45,839 --> 01:06:48,679 I know we haven't sat down and ever talked about any of this, 1213 01:06:48,717 --> 01:06:50,757 like, talked this through. No, we've never done that. 1214 01:06:50,802 --> 01:06:54,062 -I didn't think we needed to until you decided 1215 01:06:54,097 --> 01:06:55,887 to do what we're doing now, you know, 1216 01:06:55,932 --> 01:06:58,522 which I thought was pretty admirable, 1217 01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,730 but, you know, we did our job. It was over. 1218 01:07:01,771 --> 01:07:05,531 And frankly, everybody I've ever talked to about the case 1219 01:07:05,567 --> 01:07:07,647 always says to me the same thing. 1220 01:07:07,694 --> 01:07:09,574 "What happened in those 30 days?" 1221 01:07:09,612 --> 01:07:13,622 And I said, "I don't know." 1222 01:07:13,658 --> 01:07:15,618 What happened those 31 days? Have you remembered? 1223 01:07:15,660 --> 01:07:17,700 -I was meeting up with George when he was asking me 1224 01:07:17,746 --> 01:07:20,706 to meet him at the house. 1225 01:07:20,749 --> 01:07:24,209 He had me hook, line, and sinker waiting for him 1226 01:07:24,252 --> 01:07:25,922 to tell me where to meet him. 1227 01:07:25,962 --> 01:07:28,842 He kept saying if I did what he wanted me to do, 1228 01:07:28,882 --> 01:07:32,342 tell Cindy what he wanted me to tell her, 1229 01:07:32,385 --> 01:07:33,885 because if I did what he wanted me to do, 1230 01:07:33,928 --> 01:07:36,428 he had me the whole time thinking Caylee was alive 1231 01:07:36,473 --> 01:07:37,563 and she was okay. -Oh, okay. 1232 01:07:37,599 --> 01:07:38,849 -The entire time. 1233 01:07:38,892 --> 01:07:40,732 -But why would he do that? 1234 01:07:40,769 --> 01:07:42,189 -I've been living with this since, 1235 01:07:42,228 --> 01:07:45,568 living with the same questions, and it's my life. 1236 01:07:45,607 --> 01:07:48,227 -Yeah. -And that's a hard thing 1237 01:07:48,276 --> 01:07:49,736 for me to reconcile. 1238 01:07:49,778 --> 01:07:52,948 I've spent the last 14 years, almost, 1239 01:07:52,989 --> 01:07:56,079 especially during this process, having those epiphany moments 1240 01:07:56,117 --> 01:07:58,577 where something clicks. 1241 01:07:58,620 --> 01:08:02,580 Watching for the first time 1242 01:08:02,624 --> 01:08:06,504 George's clips from the funeral 1243 01:08:06,544 --> 01:08:10,594 where he's talking about missing the smell of her sweet sweat. 1244 01:08:10,632 --> 01:08:12,432 -No, I know. 1245 01:08:12,467 --> 01:08:17,507 I've always had my eyeball on George and the pool. 1246 01:08:17,555 --> 01:08:20,595 It didn't make sense to me, 1247 01:08:20,642 --> 01:08:22,522 no 911 call. -Yeah. 1248 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,060 -You know, if that's what would have happened, 1249 01:08:24,104 --> 01:08:26,114 there would have been a 911 call. 1250 01:08:26,147 --> 01:08:27,477 That's just my thoughts. 1251 01:08:27,524 --> 01:08:28,694 -The ladder wasn't on the pool, 1252 01:08:28,733 --> 01:08:29,943 so she couldn't have gotten in. 1253 01:08:29,984 --> 01:08:31,444 -So, none of that really -- 1254 01:08:31,486 --> 01:08:33,066 it didn't -- -None of it makes sense. 1255 01:08:33,113 --> 01:08:34,783 -Didn't make total sense, you know. 1256 01:08:34,823 --> 01:08:36,743 -Well, my thought was that he was using that 1257 01:08:36,783 --> 01:08:39,293 as a way to cover up, even then, what he had done. 1258 01:08:39,327 --> 01:08:42,577 -What he had done. Whatever this accident was 1259 01:08:42,622 --> 01:08:44,122 that he had done to Caylee. 1260 01:08:44,165 --> 01:08:47,205 And I got to tell you this for the first time. 1261 01:08:47,252 --> 01:08:57,012 ** 1262 01:08:57,053 --> 01:09:06,653 ** 1263 01:09:06,688 --> 01:09:08,228 I think there was an... 1264 01:09:08,273 --> 01:09:10,283 [ Clears throat ] 1265 01:09:15,530 --> 01:09:17,280 ...there was an accident. 1266 01:09:17,323 --> 01:09:23,583 ** 1267 01:09:23,621 --> 01:09:25,001 George was involved, and I don't think 1268 01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,420 the accident was in the pool. 1269 01:09:27,459 --> 01:09:31,959 ** 1270 01:09:32,005 --> 01:09:33,755 You know, after the case and everything, 1271 01:09:33,798 --> 01:09:35,678 I said George abused Caylee. 1272 01:09:35,717 --> 01:09:38,087 This is my opinion. 1273 01:09:38,136 --> 01:09:41,846 We never discussed this, but when he abused you, 1274 01:09:41,890 --> 01:09:45,100 was there anything that he did 1275 01:09:45,143 --> 01:09:47,983 that would make you think he did that to Caylee 1276 01:09:48,021 --> 01:09:49,441 to cause the accident? -Absolutely. 1277 01:09:49,481 --> 01:09:51,021 Absolutely. 1278 01:09:51,066 --> 01:09:54,236 If I didn't want to or if I said no... 1279 01:09:57,489 --> 01:09:58,989 ...he'd put a pillow over my face 1280 01:09:59,032 --> 01:10:01,622 and he'd smother me to knock me out. 1281 01:10:01,659 --> 01:10:04,909 -Really? -That happened several times. 1282 01:10:04,954 --> 01:10:07,754 -He'd take a pillow into your face? 1283 01:10:10,418 --> 01:10:13,208 That could be the accident. 1284 01:10:13,254 --> 01:10:15,764 -Possible. 1285 01:10:15,799 --> 01:10:18,179 -He abused her. 1286 01:10:18,218 --> 01:10:20,598 To stop noises, he'd grab a pillow, 1287 01:10:20,637 --> 01:10:22,887 and that would be the accident. 1288 01:10:26,226 --> 01:10:27,726 Wow. 1289 01:10:27,769 --> 01:10:30,359 -[ Sighs ] 1290 01:10:30,397 --> 01:10:38,027 ** 1291 01:10:38,071 --> 01:10:45,291 ** 1292 01:10:45,328 --> 01:10:48,918 -I actually don't know what happened on Suburban Drive. 1293 01:10:52,460 --> 01:10:58,050 I think we don't like uncertainty. 1294 01:10:58,091 --> 01:11:00,641 And I think that's kind of a hard thing for us to deal with, 1295 01:11:00,677 --> 01:11:04,637 is we don't like cases where we don't know what happened. 1296 01:11:04,681 --> 01:11:07,931 We want them to be open and shut. 1297 01:11:07,976 --> 01:11:10,646 And that's not really ever how it works. 1298 01:11:10,687 --> 01:11:17,067 ** 1299 01:11:17,110 --> 01:11:19,950 The police never looked at George as a suspect. 1300 01:11:19,988 --> 01:11:23,828 That's not something they should have let go. 1301 01:11:23,867 --> 01:11:25,907 I think he definitely covered up a lot of things. 1302 01:11:25,952 --> 01:11:27,792 Whether he knew it was because Caylee was, 1303 01:11:27,829 --> 01:11:30,119 you know, dead or not, I don't know. 1304 01:11:30,165 --> 01:11:39,125 ** 1305 01:11:39,174 --> 01:11:41,304 -I would have done any and everything 1306 01:11:41,343 --> 01:11:45,433 that he told me to do. 1307 01:11:45,472 --> 01:11:49,482 But I did protect my abuser. 1308 01:11:49,517 --> 01:11:52,227 I protected her abuser. 1309 01:11:54,689 --> 01:11:57,899 And that crushes me. 1310 01:11:58,777 --> 01:12:02,357 I can't let that go. 1311 01:12:02,405 --> 01:12:04,655 -Why was your reflex to protect him? 1312 01:12:04,699 --> 01:12:08,699 -The same reason that so many victims protect their abusers. 1313 01:12:09,996 --> 01:12:13,076 'Cause you still love them 1314 01:12:13,124 --> 01:12:14,834 and you don't want to believe that they were doing 1315 01:12:14,876 --> 01:12:18,246 what they were doing because they were trying to hurt you. 1316 01:12:18,296 --> 01:12:27,176 ** 1317 01:12:27,222 --> 01:12:29,722 I am never going to have full closure. 1318 01:12:32,185 --> 01:12:35,725 And the irony for me is I think that's part of the reason 1319 01:12:35,772 --> 01:12:38,692 why people are still so hooked on this, 1320 01:12:38,733 --> 01:12:42,403 is because they feel they need closure. 1321 01:12:42,445 --> 01:12:47,365 It's like watching these reality shows or watching a movie 1322 01:12:47,409 --> 01:12:49,159 and you feel like you need to have this ending, 1323 01:12:49,202 --> 01:12:50,952 but if it's not the ending that you want, 1324 01:12:50,995 --> 01:12:54,165 are you ever going to have that sense of closure? 1325 01:12:56,292 --> 01:12:57,712 I didn't get the ending that I wanted 1326 01:12:57,752 --> 01:12:59,212 because I didn't get my kid back. 1327 01:12:59,254 --> 01:13:02,094 That's the only ending I wanted. 1328 01:13:03,341 --> 01:13:07,051 And that's the one thing I will never get out of all of this. 1329 01:13:09,597 --> 01:13:11,387 It's been hard to cope. 1330 01:13:14,811 --> 01:13:17,061 Not easier -- harder. 1331 01:13:18,773 --> 01:13:22,243 It's waking up every day and... 1332 01:13:22,277 --> 01:13:25,487 wishing that some days I would wake up and look over 1333 01:13:25,530 --> 01:13:27,320 and she'd be right there. 1334 01:13:27,365 --> 01:13:29,235 Sweet little kid. 1335 01:13:31,411 --> 01:13:35,331 That all of this is just the shittiest bad dream. 1336 01:13:38,251 --> 01:13:41,091 We all talk about all the things that we have in a lifetime, 1337 01:13:41,129 --> 01:13:44,419 and I had the shortest life with her. 1338 01:13:44,466 --> 01:13:51,176 ** 1339 01:13:51,222 --> 01:13:53,562 It's hard to deal with. 1340 01:13:53,600 --> 01:14:00,400 ** 1341 01:14:00,440 --> 01:14:02,610 -The quality of your voice as you speak to me now 1342 01:14:02,650 --> 01:14:05,490 is completely different than the beginning. 1343 01:14:08,114 --> 01:14:12,084 -I also just feel like I'm in a state of 1344 01:14:12,118 --> 01:14:14,248 trying to patch up the bleeding, 1345 01:14:14,287 --> 01:14:16,537 just like I was completely spliced open 1346 01:14:16,581 --> 01:14:19,921 and everything just came out, 1347 01:14:19,959 --> 01:14:23,249 everything that 1348 01:14:23,296 --> 01:14:27,426 I had been holding onto, even inadvertently. 1349 01:14:30,261 --> 01:14:33,561 I spent my entire life protecting our perfect, 1350 01:14:33,598 --> 01:14:35,638 beautiful little family. 1351 01:14:35,684 --> 01:14:38,694 But I failed at my one job, which was protecting my kid, 1352 01:14:38,728 --> 01:14:42,478 so I'm angry... 1353 01:14:43,942 --> 01:14:46,282 ...that I'm a victim, 1354 01:14:46,319 --> 01:14:49,659 and that I wasn't there to fight for my kid 1355 01:14:49,698 --> 01:14:52,778 in the way that I should have been able to. 1356 01:14:52,826 --> 01:14:58,616 ** 1357 01:14:58,665 --> 01:15:02,285 It's a hard thing to deal with. 1358 01:15:02,335 --> 01:15:06,205 It's a hard thing to live with every day. 1359 01:15:06,256 --> 01:15:09,046 Because nothing's going to bring her back. 1360 01:15:10,593 --> 01:15:12,013 Nothing. 1361 01:15:12,053 --> 01:15:16,393 Even if I someday get the answers that... 1362 01:15:18,643 --> 01:15:21,943 ...I need, 1363 01:15:21,980 --> 01:15:23,730 it's never going to be enough. 1364 01:15:23,773 --> 01:15:25,573 ** 1365 01:15:25,608 --> 01:15:28,318 -No. 1366 01:15:28,361 --> 01:15:30,861 No. -It's never gonna be enough. 1367 01:15:30,905 --> 01:15:41,535 ** 1368 01:15:41,583 --> 01:15:52,303 ** 1369 01:15:52,344 --> 01:16:02,814 ** 1370 01:16:02,854 --> 01:16:05,444 This was my childhood home. 1371 01:16:08,818 --> 01:16:10,738 I hate this house so much. 1372 01:16:10,779 --> 01:16:15,949 I feel like part of me will always, always be trapped here. 1373 01:16:15,992 --> 01:16:18,202 But it's a part of me that I try so hard 1374 01:16:18,244 --> 01:16:21,414 to continue to just let go. 1375 01:16:23,875 --> 01:16:26,085 That scared little girl. 1376 01:16:26,127 --> 01:16:30,877 But this is also where I brought my little girl home. 1377 01:16:30,924 --> 01:16:33,434 So... 1378 01:16:33,468 --> 01:16:35,178 as much as I want to hate this house, 1379 01:16:35,220 --> 01:16:36,930 part of me will always love it, too, 1380 01:16:36,971 --> 01:16:38,721 because it was her home. 1381 01:16:43,186 --> 01:16:45,056 The only good thing that's left at that house 1382 01:16:45,105 --> 01:16:48,395 are just the memories that I had with her. 1383 01:16:48,441 --> 01:16:51,991 There's a box of ashes inside. 1384 01:16:52,028 --> 01:16:56,028 That has this etched picture of Caylee on it. 1385 01:16:56,074 --> 01:16:57,374 And an inscription. 1386 01:16:57,409 --> 01:17:01,579 And I have asked several times now for them. 1387 01:17:01,621 --> 01:17:04,501 And my mom won't give them back to me. 1388 01:17:06,918 --> 01:17:10,298 I would like to... 1389 01:17:10,338 --> 01:17:13,968 take them and scatter them and take her to all the places 1390 01:17:14,009 --> 01:17:17,099 that she should have been able to go and see herself. 1391 01:17:17,137 --> 01:17:18,557 I wanted her to travel, 1392 01:17:18,596 --> 01:17:22,136 to do all the things I never got a chance to do. 1393 01:17:22,183 --> 01:17:27,653 To not have her trapped in a box on a shelf. 1394 01:17:27,689 --> 01:17:32,489 ** 1395 01:17:32,527 --> 01:17:36,697 All of the rest -- not worth holding onto. 1396 01:17:38,992 --> 01:17:41,412 It's just easier to let it all go. 1397 01:17:41,453 --> 01:17:48,713 ** 1398 01:17:48,752 --> 01:17:51,132 [ Sighs ] 1399 01:17:51,171 --> 01:17:53,671 I'm definitely done here. 1400 01:17:53,715 --> 01:18:05,095 ** 1401 01:18:05,143 --> 01:18:16,783 ** 1402 01:18:16,821 --> 01:18:28,211 ** 1403 01:18:28,249 --> 01:18:30,669 Can't leave this place without crying. 1404 01:18:32,796 --> 01:18:34,706 Not even now. 1405 01:18:34,756 --> 01:18:38,886 ** 1406 01:18:38,927 --> 01:18:40,347 [ Sighs ]