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This programme contains
some strong language
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# My money doesn't jiggle jiggle
It folds
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# I like to see you wiggle wiggle
For sure
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# If you wanna dribble dribble
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# You know, riding in my Fiat
You really have to see it
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# Six feet two in a compact
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# No slack
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# Luckily the seats go back
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# I've got a knack to relax
in my mind
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# Sipping some red, red wine. #
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Woo!
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That was incredible. You killed it!
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At the home of Ashley Walters,
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I was being treated to
a recital of classic rap tracks.
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Do you know a rap called 21 Seconds?
BOTH: Yeah!
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How does that one go?
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# I got 21 seconds to flow
I got 21 seconds to go
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# Cos if you like me lemme know
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# Let me in da studio
I got 21 seconds before I got to go
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# 21 seconds, t-t-t
21 seconds, t-t-t
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You could have sang it with us.
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I don't know the words, baby,
I don't know... Yes, you do!
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You are the person that sang it!
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You're the person that sang it!
Aw, shush.
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So, should we get to the interview?
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Yeah, I'm ready to go.
You lead the way.
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The actor and star of one
of Britain's biggest TV exports
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had let me in for a rare behind
the scenes look at his life,
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and to share the untold story
of his rise to fame.
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Is that good?
You don't want to feel...
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Like I look over-relaxed.
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Sometimes you look at yourself
and I'm like, "I look sort of lazy."
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Like, "Tell me more about your
career, Ashley..."
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Do you know what I mean?
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I just don't want to look... Like, I
want to look like I'm attentive
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and respectful and paying attention.
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It's all good, man, relax. Make
yourself at home. Calm down, Louis.
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I first met Ashley in Soho,
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in the heart of London's
trendy media village.
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He was hosting a screening
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of the last season of his critically
acclaimed series Top Boy,
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which was about to be released on
Netflix.
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There he is.
Hiya, how are you doing?
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Good, man. Nice to meet you.
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You too. I feel like I know you.
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Yeah. I feel like I know you as
well. Watched a lot of your stuff.
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This is my wife, Danielle.
How do you do, Louis?
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Nice to meet you, Danielle. Nice to
meet you. Top Boy. The grand finale.
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Yeah. Yeah. It's coming up.
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I'm a big fan. Thank you.
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And I'm from Southside. Are you?
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So hopefully no beef.
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No, no, no. We are good.
We ain't got no beef, man.
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Shall we go in? Yeah, man. Here we
go.
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Hi, everyone.
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CHEERING
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Good to see you all here.
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Yeah. Look, Top Boy.
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Last season.
Final chapter for the show.
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Final chapter for me.
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It's been a show that I've
been on for, like, over a decade.
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Basically,
everyone in this room is my circle.
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Like, I don't have a really, really
wide, wide circle.
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I very rarely come out of my house,
as people know, unless I'm working.
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So I'm happy to be able
to share it with you,
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so you know that I'm not just
hiding somewhere and avoiding you.
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Like, I am actually out
there working.
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You know, this is what I've
been doing.
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All right.
Episode one of Top Boy, guys. Enjoy.
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Top Boy is a wildly popular drama
series
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set in a Hackney housing estate
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in which Ashley stars
as the drug kingpin, Dushane.
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I've had a long fucking day, bro.
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I'll give you a piece of advice.
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Do what the fuck
I'm telling you to do.
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His smouldering authenticity
in the role
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has brought him
international recognition
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following years of work in British
and American films and TV.
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Yes.
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# They don't know about my crew... #
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But Ashley's path has been
far from conventional,
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including a pioneering role
in the UK garage scene.
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The best UK Garage Act is...
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..So Solid.
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And a high-profile legal case
and prison sentence
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that threatened
to permanently derail his career.
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Ashley Walters, better known
to his fans as Asher D,
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was jailed for 18 months
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after police found him with a loaded
weapon.
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With his latest release,
Ashley is a man enjoying his moment.
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I'm so proud, man. Bless you.
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Oh, man.
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Oh, my God.
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Amazing, Ash.
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Though he grew up in Peckham,
southeast London,
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for the past few years, Ashley has
lived in Kent on the Thames estuary,
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an area known for its beaches
and its tranquillity.
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So what's the... What's this?
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Our son wants a praying mantis.
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And we said, "Well, if you can look
after a stick insect,
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"then you can have the
praying mantis."
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What's the name of the stick insect?
Barry. Barry?
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Barry, yeah. Does Barry have
quite a lot of personality?
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No. No. He's essentially a stick.
Wow.
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He's about to go on your face,
that what he's about to do.
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You think I'm going to be a wimp
about this, but I'm not.
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No. You know, I've, I've never...
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I've never touched him.
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It's just like, I don't do insects.
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Spiders. Spiders. Anything like
that. Really?
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Yeah. I'm the one
that... Fly. Anything that flies.
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Other than planes - don't bring them
near me.
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When the time came to speak,
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I was hoping to understand
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something of both Ashley's real-life
struggles and his acting prowess
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and whether the two might even be
related.
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Thank you for doing this, man.
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Why?
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Because I don't like people
in my house.
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So even my family have a certain
amount of time in here,
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and then it's like...
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No, I love my family, but I'm, like,
quite a reserved,
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introverted sort of person.
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Having people in my space,
do you know what I mean?
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It's different for me. Yeah.
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Um, social anxiety comes up for me
a lot.
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Appreciate it.
Thank you for doing it.
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No problem.
Thank you for having me.
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I'd like to start by reflecting
on kind of where you are now
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a little bit in terms
of your career.
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You're riding high.
You've got this hit show, Top Boy.
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For people who don't know,
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how would you characterise what the
show is and who you are in it?
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Top Boy is a TV drama about
organised crime in east London
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and the journey of one man's
attempt
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to become top of the food
chain in the drug game.
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For me, Top Boy stood out
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just for making characters human
and 3D
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and not getting your typical bad
boy, gangster sort of stereotype.
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We were talking about mental
health, we're talking about neglect,
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you're talking about poverty.
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And for me, that was real.
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You know, the drugs was a sideline
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of what was going on in these
people's heads.
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And I feel like if you're going to
be playing drug dealers,
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there are plenty of drug
dealers out there.
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And actually, this may sound really
weird
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and I don't want people
to take it the wrong way,
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but my main thing is to honour them.
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Honour who? The drug dealers?
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Well, yeah. If I'm playing a drug
dealer,
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I want drug dealers to watch the
show and go, "That's good." Mm.
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Like, "I feel like that resonates."
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Has it felt like it's mainly
a positive experience
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in terms of how it's been received?
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There's been one or two high-profile
people who called it out and said,
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"This isn't what we need to be
saying about the black community."
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When that happened, I was quite
shocked, actually.
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Especially if they're black.
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If you look at what Top Boy's done,
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it's probably our only show from
that genre that exports worldwide.
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Outside of that, we have maybe
Sex Education, The Crown
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and just period drama in general.
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Downton Abbey. Downton Abbey.
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Doctor Who. Doctor Who.
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Which you've also been in.
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Which I've also been in.
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That was a good episode.
Thank you very much.
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I think Doctor Who fans are, like,
a lot wilder than Top Boy fans.
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Whovian is the word
you're looking for.
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Oh, is that, is that the term,
yeah? OK.
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Whovian. You learn something...
You kind of have to be a Whovian
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to know the word Whovian. Mm.
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I'm Doctor Who at six o'clock
and Top Boy at 9.30.
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Well, there you go.
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But your point was that Top Boy had
reached that pinnacle of,
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well, international reach.
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And actually, we should celebrate
something that has that level...
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We should celebrate it.
And it's a door opener.
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The point I was trying to make
is if you don't like it,
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you don't like it, that's fine.
But it's more than just a TV show.
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It's a bit of history,
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and it's a door that's open now for
a lot of black actors and creatives.
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You should be worrying
about my money, though.
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Ashley's success comes off the back
of years of learning his craft
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as a jobbing actor
in theatre and film and TV,
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starting aged just 14
with a role in Grange Hill.
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Hi, sis, I've got it all worked out,
right?
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The party was your idea
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and I was in my room all night
doing my homework, yeah?
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Joke! Just a joke.
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MUSIC: 21 Seconds by So Solid Crew
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But he had his first blush of
fame in his late teens,
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making music under the name Asher D
after joining So Solid Crew,
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a collective of MCs and producers
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formed by south London rap mogul
Mega Man.
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So Solid had four top ten hits
to their name,
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including the legendary
21 Seconds...
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# I got 21 seconds to go... #
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..before disintegrating under
the weight of criminal cases
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and government disapproval.
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# I got 21 seconds
before I got to go. #
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Shall we talk about So Solid,
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this legendary foundational
rap collective?
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Well, garage collective. Mm.
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It's amazing how quickly
it all blew up. Mm.
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It felt like the culture had been
waiting
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for something like this to happen,
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something that felt homegrown and
authentic
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and a little bit dangerous.
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There was a lot of voiceless
people at that time.
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You know, what we spoke or what
we stood for
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was, like, a disenfranchised sort of
youth
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that just felt neglected and left
out.
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It became a huge story,
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and the idea that So Solid was
associated with negativity.
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Home Secretary David Blunkett
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made a sort of disparaging
remark about the group, you know,
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"They're contributing to gun crime,
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"they're part of this rampant social
problem that we have."
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I just wonder what that felt
like from the inside.
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We felt we were like
the correspondents, I guess,
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of our space.
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Do you know what I'm saying?
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Because we were out there
on the front line
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reporting what was
going on around us,
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because no-one else was talking
about it.
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I mean, a lot of the time, my music
was about fear.
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It was about fearing for my life.
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When people are outside your house
pointing guns at you,
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or shooting at your car or whatever,
then there is a threat.
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These things were happening?
These things were happening, yeah.
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You said you had a gun pulled on you
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when you were
carrying your baby at the time? Mm.
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00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:02,600
Yeah.
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What was that all about?
Do you know who it was?
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Just intimidation.
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00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,080
I made a comment on radio.
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Lyrics that I'd wrote, someone was
copying
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and I just made a passing comment
of, like,
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"Whoever's doing that,
be original."
242
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,400
You know what I mean?
243
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,760
Maybe said it in a slightly
more aggressive way than that.
244
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,360
And they pulled up at my house.
245
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,560
Like, I had to learn
a lot of lessons.
246
00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,840
I wasn't...
I was never the one from the group,
247
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,480
and I put my hands up and say this,
I didn't...
248
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,360
My upbringing was OK. Do you know
what I mean?
249
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,760
I didn't grow up rich,
250
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,200
but I had no reason to sell drugs or
to be out on the street.
251
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,040
Do you get what I'm saying?
252
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,560
But I was walking with some
real gangsters at the time,
253
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:53,800
so, easy for me to become a target.
254
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,520
And then there came a time
when you went and got...
255
00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,720
I went and bought a gun. A gun.
256
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,080
Yeah. For £1,300.
257
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,080
Is that right?
258
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,000
You done the research.
That's what it said.
259
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,920
It seemed quite expensive.
260
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,320
Yeah. Probably was.
261
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,240
Especially because it said it was
a modified air pistol. Yeah.
262
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,880
When you think of air pistol,
doesn't sound,
263
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,920
I mean, I don't mean to,
I don't know,
264
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,200
I'm in danger of trivialising it.
265
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,680
Dangerous enough.
Dangerous enough.
266
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,520
Where did you get the gun from?
267
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,400
Nowhere.
268
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,960
Dates, names, places.
269
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,080
You must be crazy.
270
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,520
Was it hard to get it?
271
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,520
No.
272
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,240
My aim was to protect myself.
273
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,840
But it's something that comes with
owning a firearm,
274
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,880
like a sense of power,
275
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:48,160
entitlement that grew within me.
276
00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,240
So at some point, it stopped being
about fear
277
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,680
and more about control.
278
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,560
Know what I mean? Mm-hm.
279
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,880
I think that's where it
kind of went wrong for me.
280
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,880
How I got caught was having an
argument with a traffic warden,
281
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,320
and I made some harsh comments
that involved firearms.
282
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,120
You said, "I'm going to come and
shoot you." Something like that.
283
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,760
Along those lines.
284
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,120
Presumably, you didn't mean it.
285
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,200
No.
286
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,520
No, I weren't willing to risk
my liberty
287
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,560
over shooting a traffic warden.
288
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:30,720
But, I mean, I made my comments.
Said what I said.
289
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,840
But, yeah, I left and not too long
after,
290
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,320
armed police stopped me
in Haymarket and arrested me.
291
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,160
In Haymarket in the West End?
In the West End. Yeah.
292
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,840
Did they pull guns on you? Yeah.
293
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,760
Were you with
your girlfriend at the time?
294
00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,800
I was. She was in the vehicle?
And my kids.
295
00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,840
And your kids as well? Mm.
296
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,920
That sounds horrific.
It was horrific,
297
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,160
but my biggest regret is
that my kids were there.
298
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,680
They gave you 18 months?
299
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,400
Yeah. And then you did seven
months in the end?
300
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,560
Yeah.
301
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,480
And it was a tough time.
302
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,840
It was a tough time.
303
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,520
But it was a long time ago.
304
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,000
And I think it's the most boring
topic
305
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,440
that any interviewer could ever
choose to talk to me about,
306
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,640
in my opinion.
307
00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,160
Yeah. Nah. Good bants.
308
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,720
Nah. Look, it was a big...
It was a big part of my life
309
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,320
and I didn't ever want to go back.
310
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,480
Back to prison?
Yeah, back to prison. Yeah.
311
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,680
Ashley's imprisonment
312
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,160
and a bout of depression that
followed after he was released
313
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,240
would turn out to be his lowest ebb,
314
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,520
but also the beginning
of a comeback.
315
00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,600
Come on, sleepy head.
Time to go home.
316
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,840
With his role in Bullet Boy,
317
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,840
a film written for him based on
his real-life prison experience,
318
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,440
he embarked on a full-time acting
career.
319
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,520
How many men, yeah, go to jail,
yeah,
320
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,560
and have their mum come to
pick them up after that?
321
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,200
It's a bit embarrassing, innit?
322
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,200
How long have you been in this
house, if I may ask?
323
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,920
Just over two years.
324
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,600
You got so much space.
325
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,360
Yeah, it's a lot of space.
326
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,200
This will be an indoor swimming
pool. Gym.
327
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,200
I'd like to get, like,
a cinema here as well.
328
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,360
You said there was a planning
application war?
329
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,920
What's that all about?
There was, yeah.
330
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,080
We've appealed.
331
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,520
Now we're going to try
and go to a committee.
332
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,960
And then, I mean, I guess after
that...
333
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,160
..it's moving, really.
334
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,800
I thought you were going to say
something else. No.
335
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,040
No, not any more.
336
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,640
I'm a changed man.
337
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,040
So you've got the history
of So Solid, really, in CD form?
338
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,160
Well, some plaques that
I earned,
339
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,080
got the Platinum Sales Award
for the album.
340
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,560
That was our first album,
They Don't know.
341
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,080
I've got some clapperboards.
342
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:13,840
Clapperboards. Yeah.
343
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,480
But we've got, look, A Thousand
Blows, which is a TV show.
344
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:18,920
That's a new project.
345
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,080
This is my third directing job.
346
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,440
That looks cool. It's a period
drama. Period drama.
347
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,640
Created by the guy who
created Peaky Blinders.
348
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,160
Is that right? Yeah, Steven Knight.
349
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,640
So they actually...
I've never done that before. No?
350
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,240
30 years, I've been in television.
351
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,480
That's the first time
I've ever done that.
352
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,720
It feels good.
353
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,160
And...
354
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,440
Cut.
355
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,520
Is that your gym?
Do you want to have a look?
356
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,920
Come on, then.
Do you do much working out?
357
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,040
Every day, I work out, you know.
358
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,800
Wow. Impressive.
359
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,000
Yeah,
that was a couple of years ago.
360
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,760
It's meant to be inspiration
to get back.
361
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,320
Muscle-spiration. Hmm.
362
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,920
You're training, though, right?
Do you have to ask?
363
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,200
Should I see if I can pick up
one of these or not? Test me...
364
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,480
Not that bad.
365
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,160
Curl it or lift it? The shoulders,
mainly, with that one.
366
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,920
Am I holding it the right way round?
367
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:21,920
Yeah.
368
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,560
Yeah, you are quite tall.
369
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,560
That's not too bad.
Nah. You're all right.
370
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,560
That's not too bad,
Rachel's smiling.
371
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:28,840
Does it look ridiculous?
372
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,160
No. It looks...
This is so light.
373
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,560
It's like a balloon.
374
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,160
I feel like it's making you look,
like,
375
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,800
a lot stronger than you
probably are.
376
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,000
How dare you? I heard that.
377
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,200
I don't think you can lift that up.
378
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,240
ASHLEY LAUGHS
379
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,840
That's what I would usually do.
380
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,160
Impressive.
381
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,840
Point taken.
382
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:56,920
Wow.
383
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,680
You mentioned that you've
stopped drinking.
384
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:00,920
Yeah.
385
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,520
One was never enough for me.
386
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,840
Me stopping coincided with lockdown.
387
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,480
I was drinking most of the day.
388
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,920
I think it became apparent
to everyone else around me
389
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,960
that it was like, it's time.
390
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,040
Was it hard to stop?
I will stick at something.
391
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,480
Do you know what I mean? Mm-hm.
I've always been like that.
392
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,600
Once I'm on it, I will,
I'll see it through to the end.
393
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,600
Mm-hm.
394
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,480
You know?
395
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,080
Yeah.
396
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,880
That is a huge spider.
397
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,280
Want me to sort it out?
398
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,320
I mean, you can say hello to it.
Are you serious?
399
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,520
Come on.
400
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,080
Look at him.
401
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,920
He wants nothing more than to have
a cuddle with his friend Ashley.
402
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,640
I'm going to take him outside.
403
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,760
Spiders are our friends.
404
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,880
Your friends.
405
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,320
Ashley's struggles with alcohol
and his mental health
406
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,040
are something he's been
open about in interviews.
407
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,360
His move to Kent in 2021
with his wife of ten years,
408
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,920
Danielle Walters, also an actor,
was in part in search of a calmer,
409
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:26,560
lower profile existence away from
the pressures of London life.
410
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,200
Max, come on, please, mate. Babe.
411
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,360
Come on, son.
412
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,440
We had a deal.
413
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,040
If I buy a house, I'm allowed a dog.
414
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,160
But she has to pick the dog.
415
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,640
I'd like a couple of Dobermans.
416
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,960
Anyway, I took what I could get.
You love him, don't you?
417
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,360
Yeah, course I love Max.
418
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,760
I just wish he was a bit bigger
and more vicious.
419
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,760
How did the two of you meet,
may I ask?
420
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,600
I was doing a show on MTV.
421
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,680
And I was meant to have a love
interest in this party scene.
422
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,000
And Dan was cast for that part.
423
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,480
I apparently...
I was wearing trousers.
424
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,480
And I apparently said
to the wardrobe people,
425
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,680
she should be wearing a skirt.
"Put her in a skirt."
426
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,680
That's exactly what he said.
And I was like...
427
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,080
This is the wrong narrative to be
putting out there. I know.
428
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,960
Especially in 2023 with all
the stuff that's going on with...
429
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,360
This was 20-odd years ago.
..with Me Too and that.
430
00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,200
I never... I know I never said
that.
431
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,280
And if I did say it,
432
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,400
it was a creative decision.
And then at lunch,
433
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,920
I was sitting by myself and he went,
"Come over here."
434
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,680
And I was like, "No."
435
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,760
And he was like, "Come on,
just come over here."
436
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,240
I sat with him, and then I thought,
437
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,920
"Do you know what," after the
conversation, "He's quite cool.
438
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,280
"He's all right." He was just being
a... I don't know. An idiot.
439
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,320
Something I was talking to Ashley
about
440
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,520
was how he's a very private person.
441
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,600
Right?
And maybe he's quite introspective.
442
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,200
And behind that is a certain
level of social anxiety.
443
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Right? Mm. I'm wondering whether
there's a role that you play
444
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,160
in terms of taking care of Ashley's
sort of wellbeing.
445
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,840
Oh, 100%. I'm very,
very protective of Ashley.
446
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760
Like, you see the other night
447
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,680
when I went to that Evening Standard
thing, right? I was in the tux.
448
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,360
Yeah. And I FaceTimed you
449
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,920
and was on the phone with you, like,
in the venue for how long? Yeah.
450
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,440
And you stayed on the phone
and talked with me
451
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,920
because you
knew that I was uncomfortable. Yeah.
452
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,760
And I just kind of wanted to go
home.
453
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,840
In the beginning, when we first
started dating and stuff,
454
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,400
I would bring you to events with me
455
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,520
because I didn't know how to
have small talk.
456
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,680
Like, I found it really difficult
457
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,200
to just strike up conversations
with people,
458
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,000
and I just know Dan is a talker.
459
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,400
I'll talk to anyone. Yeah,
and she can always break the ice.
460
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,680
So just having my back like that...
461
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,040
And I have to go, "Babe,
it's all right. It's OK." True.
462
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,560
"It's just fine."
463
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,400
Are those oyster beds over there?
464
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,800
Yes, they are. Yeah.
465
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,360
This is apparently the biggest
oyster farm in Europe.
466
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,600
They're world famous.
467
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,240
You can find them
in America sometimes.
468
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,160
What? Whitstable Oysters?
Yeah. Whitstable Oysters. Yeah.
469
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,400
You all right? Can I get a portion
of scampi? And half a dozen? Dozen?
470
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,840
Get a dozen.
A dozen oysters, please.
471
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,960
I want a bit of everything.
472
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,480
Bit of lemon juice?
473
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,800
Yeah. Yeah. Why not?
474
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,520
Cheers. Cheers.
475
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,280
Mm-nm.
476
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,640
Look at your face. Whoa. Did you
chew it? That's tangy.
477
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,680
Taste one.
Are you out of your mind?
478
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,280
OK. I nearly threw up the last time
I had an oyster.
479
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,080
There's an oyster hater over here.
480
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,440
MAN NEARBY:
481
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,200
Well, let him have it, then.
482
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,320
I only eat like 1,200, 1,200,
483
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,960
1,250 calories a day.
484
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,480
So when I do have oysters,
485
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,960
it's like my calorie intake is
pretty much over.
486
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,840
I didn't have you pegged
as a calorie-counter.
487
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,920
Well, I am at times.
488
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,680
I am at times when I need to,
when I need to lose weight.
489
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,360
Ashley was saying that he's stopped
drinking,
490
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,040
and that's been a positive.
491
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,720
Big positive.
492
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,080
A different person.
493
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,720
It caused arguments between us
unnecessarily.
494
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,440
Just didn't need it in his life.
495
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,120
Do you do meetings?
496
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,280
Yeah. Do you? Yeah, I do a lot of
meetings.
497
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,120
I mean, my life is pretty much
based on recovery at this point
498
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,560
because I put it first.
499
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,600
Because whatever I put before that,
I was pretty much going to lose,
500
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,560
if I'm honest with you.
501
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,440
So I stay close to recovery,
502
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,760
I stay close to my fellowship.
503
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,200
It's important to me.
504
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,400
What made you decide
to finally get married?
505
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,000
My dream woman.
506
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,200
Oh, I was hoping you weren't
going to say that.
507
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,680
Yeah, well.
508
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,880
Like, I loved her to death.
509
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,080
And then I wanted to,
like, hang up my boots.
510
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080
Had you been
a bit of a Casanova in the past?
511
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,880
I wouldn't say a Casanova.
512
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,680
That's not, that's not me.
513
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,440
Don't get me wrong.
I didn't shy away.
514
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,480
Like, I still managed to end up
with eight kids.
515
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,240
Eight kids.
516
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,600
I think it's just three
relationships.
517
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,680
Is that right?
Yeah. Three's enough.
518
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,440
You had your first
when you were just 17. Mm.
519
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,120
That's very young. Mmm.
520
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,800
And then you became a grandfather?
521
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,400
Yeah.
522
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,480
When you were, what, 36?
523
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,080
30... 38. ..8. Yeah.
524
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,240
Do you think you were able to be
a good dad to the eight kids?
525
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,840
Try my best. Try my best.
526
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,640
They may not have the desired
relationships
527
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,720
that they want with me.
528
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,520
I think mainly, I think mainly,
that's with my older kids.
529
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,520
Do you know what I mean? Yeah.
530
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,200
I know, there have been moments
531
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,240
where I haven't been the best dad,
because I couldn't be.
532
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,520
I wasn't around, or wasn't
in the right place to be, right?
533
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,320
I feel like with my dad,
I held his past against him.
534
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,800
I think my kids can
sometimes do the same.
535
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,800
Ashley's father died in 2005,
but before that,
536
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,480
he'd been an intermittent
presence in Ashley's life.
537
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,480
What was preventing him
from seeing more of you
538
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,720
when you were growing up?
539
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,240
I think his own demons
that he was battling with.
540
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,840
He led quite a crazy lifestyle,
you know, a lot of different women.
541
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,640
A lot of different kids?
542
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,040
Yeah. Yeah.
543
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,760
Brushes with the law as well,
maybe? Brushes with the law.
544
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,440
Yeah. He sat down with the Queen
quite a bit.
545
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,800
You said 17 times in one interview.
546
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,280
Yeah. Is that really possible?
547
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,720
Yeah.
548
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,560
He spent a lot of time...
549
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,960
He spent a lot of time in prison.
550
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,160
Do you feel like you had reached
551
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,200
a point of mutual love and
understanding
552
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,720
by the end before he died?
553
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,160
Maybe not mutual.
554
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,920
I was angry.
555
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,920
Very, very angry.
556
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,920
Very angry with him.
557
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,760
And that made me angry
with the world, man.
558
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:48,600
It's taken me to some dark places.
559
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,880
I've done some really stupid things.
560
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,840
And I've hurt some people,
you know, people close to me,
561
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:04,600
but all of that anger and pain
562
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,560
and hurt that I had,
563
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,520
and the resentment that I had
against him gave me fire.
564
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,760
If I haven't got talent
in anything else,
565
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,560
I've always been able
to use my pain for good use.
566
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,880
Ashley had arranged for us to visit
his mum.
567
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,280
She lives in Hackney,
568
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,680
not far from some of the most iconic
locations featured in Top Boy.
569
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,600
And so, en route, I'd asked
570
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,440
if we could take a short
detour to see the sights.
571
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,320
Yes, chum. Yes, bro.
572
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,000
With the new series just launched,
573
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,000
featuring a controversial
and bloody final episode,
574
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,040
it would be a chance to get some
in-person audience feedback.
575
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,200
I can't tell you, bro.
576
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,280
Within minutes,
the verdicts were coming in.
577
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,480
They take it so seriously.
578
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,080
I rate it, though. Appreciate it.
579
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360
But one thing I didn't like. What?
580
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,280
Yeah, I hear you man. I hear you.
581
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,960
Would I be able to get
a quick snap with you, please?
582
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,520
Um, all right, cool.
583
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,240
But because we've stopped...
I hear that...
584
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,760
Nice one, brother, bless.
No worries, brother.
585
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,600
Nah, nah, I'm filming, bro.
586
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,440
Thank you very much for making me,
bro.
587
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Yes, big man.
588
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,080
Just off the market was
another well-known Top Boy location
589
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,080
and hang spot for local characters.
590
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,280
Yeah, yeah, I know that.
591
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,640
Are you a fan?
Did you watch Top Boy?
592
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,280
Yeah, bro, me watch the thing, man,
593
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,640
but me doesn't like the ending
of the thing, you know?
594
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,000
You didn't like the ending?
No, me don't like the ending.
595
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080
I couldn't sit by
and watch a story
596
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,680
where they succeeded after
everything that they've done.
597
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,080
Everyone's got a different opinion.
598
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,040
I hear you. Good point. Point taken.
599
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,560
My name's Jared. Good to meet you,
brother. I'm a Rasta man.
600
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,160
Let me say, you know, for the world.
601
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,160
I'm from Montserrat.
602
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,880
Who's taking the picture? Ah, there.
603
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,280
What does that mean?
That's the trinity sign.
604
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,560
The trinity? Yes. Rastafari.
605
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,320
It's blessed. Guys, take care.
Thank you so much, yeah.
606
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,560
Thank you. Bless man.
607
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,560
Ashley had told me about wanting
Top Boy
608
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,160
to honour its real-life
counterparts,
609
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,720
and so there was something
heartening
610
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,920
about everyone's
enthusiasm for the new season.
611
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,280
Have you seen Top Boy?
612
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,040
Yes. I think it's a great show.
Have you seen the new...?
613
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,720
He used to be slim. He used to be
slim. He's still slim!
614
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,160
What are you talking about?
615
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,360
Thank you very much. Sorry!
616
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,240
You head-butted me as well. You
used to be slim. Let me get some...
617
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,600
What a way to just destroy me!
618
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,160
Sorry. You're still slim.
619
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,680
Don't you listen.
It's all good, man.
620
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,480
I love my size.
621
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,040
A short walk away was the house
belonging to Ashley's mum, Pam.
622
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,440
Hello. She lives with Ashley's
stepdad and former manager, Richard.
623
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,960
Is it Richard? Yes. Louis.
624
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,920
Sorry, Richard. Louis. Lovely to
meet you.
625
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,240
How are you doing? Can we come in?
626
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,360
Yeah, of course you can,
don't be silly.
627
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,480
Little slice of heaven.
628
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,800
The family manor.
629
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,960
Hello. Hi, Pamela. Hiya, hi.
630
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,360
Sorry. Louis. How are you?
Your house is beautiful.
631
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,040
Oh, thank you.
632
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,960
Hi, son.
633
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,960
Ashley had grown up
Pam's only child.
634
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,680
With his dad not often around
635
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,160
and his mum holding down a full-time
job with the council,
636
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,760
he'd been
enrolled in a weekend drama school.
637
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,840
What have you got there?
It's a folder.
638
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,680
This is a folder that I've
kept for some time
639
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,400
of bits and bobs of Ashley's work.
640
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,720
What are you hiding in there?
Here we go.
641
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,640
Remember that?
642
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,000
Yeah. Oxford Street, yeah.
643
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,480
A play by Levi David Addai.
644
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,280
You stole that off the wall
in the theatre.
645
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,000
I mean, this is an odd question,
isn't it,
646
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,480
but would you say you're a fan?
647
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,240
I'm his biggest fan.
648
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:09,760
The only thing I would say,
I'd prefer him to do more stage.
649
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,600
That was a good pivot.
650
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,560
We didn't stay very
long on the positive.
651
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,640
Yeah, yeah, I know.
652
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440
But this has been my life.
653
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,960
Trust me.
654
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,560
I feel what you're trying to say is,
you enjoy when I'm on stage,
655
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,920
but I'm also very good in my TV
shows and films and stuff?
656
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,400
No, but... You don't want to leave
it?
657
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,440
LAUGHTER
658
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,000
Amazing. Amazing.
659
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,080
I like your dynamic.
You kind of...
660
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,200
It's sort of like watching
conversation tennis.
661
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,760
Yeah, no, this is how I've grown up.
662
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,840
I had to explain everything,
being questioned.
663
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,040
"I rebelled against my strict
upbringing."
664
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,760
It was strict.
Was it? In what way?
665
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,000
It was definitely strict.
666
00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:03,040
Look, most of those things
like stage school, like piano,
667
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,720
like home tutoring,
668
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,600
I didn't want to do.
669
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,360
LAUGHTER
Right.
670
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,280
But I would never sit here and go,
671
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,760
"That was the worst thing
she ever did for me",
672
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,360
because it was amazing...
Look at all the opportunities.
673
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,440
Look at all the opportunity
came from that.
674
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,360
It was about trying to ensure
675
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,040
that his time was properly
and meaningfully occupied.
676
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,680
We lived in a place where if young
people are not fully occupied,
677
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,440
then what are they doing?
678
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,000
They're hanging around and maybe
getting themselves into trouble.
679
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,280
It was only when I got to, like,
maybe 16, I changed as a kid.
680
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,040
In those years is when I went out
and I got in trouble,
681
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,920
it's when I got arrested, it's
when I... Do you know what I mean?
682
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,240
I joined So Solid.
683
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:56,280
I was doing, you know, it's not,
like, rebelling against my mum,
684
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,120
but it was rebelling against, like,
685
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,520
all of those things that
she'd built up for me
686
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,400
and how safe
she kept me and whatever.
687
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,160
Can I ask about... I know from
reading your book
688
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,560
and also from looking at the back
of your neck
689
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,280
that there was a there was a time
when you were attacked as well.
690
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,760
How old were you?
691
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,400
15. 15. Maybe. Yeah,
something like that.
692
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,960
And it was just people...
It wasn't people you knew, was it?
693
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,200
It was just like a couple of... No.
694
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:27,280
It was a couple of men who
were in their, like, mid-thirties,
695
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,840
something like that,
696
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,640
Eastern European guys that were
just drunk outside the off-licence.
697
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,320
And one of my friends
got into an argument,
698
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,680
if I remember correctly,
with these guys.
699
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,920
I mean, to be fair, it wasn't
even my fight to fight,
700
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,360
but I was carrying a knife.
701
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,880
These are two big men.
Right? And we're kids.
702
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,520
We're babies.
703
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,680
So they would have literally took
the knife out of my hand,
704
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,800
threw it and started throwing us
about, man.
705
00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,240
But, yeah, in the end,
706
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,040
they just broke a bottle
and just stabbed me in my neck.
707
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,600
But I didn't realise
I'd been stabbed.
708
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,960
I just thought I'd been punched.
709
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,000
I didn't realise. It was only when
my friends were like,
710
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,920
"Bro, you are bleeding."
711
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,040
And then I was like...
Everything just faded to black.
712
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,920
I was gone.
713
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,680
I think that's the first and only
time in my life
714
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,080
that I thought, "I'm dead."
715
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,320
I thought I was going to die
716
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,640
because I think it started to get
black really slowly.
717
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,480
You know, it's like...
718
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,000
So I thought, "Ah, that's it."
719
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,880
But then I woke up.
720
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,840
Mum was there...crying.
721
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,000
So I actually thought
they were going to come in there
722
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,320
and tell me that he had died.
723
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,440
I said to myself,
"This only happens on the TV.
724
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,160
"This is not real."
725
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,320
So it was harrowing.
726
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,440
I'll never forget that day.
727
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,520
Erm...
728
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,920
It still sends shudders down my
spine now thinking about it.
729
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,680
We don't talk about...
We've not really talked about this
730
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,200
because I've not really...
731
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,520
Hearing it from your perspective
just sheds a new light on it for me.
732
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,640
I've just never heard
you express that emotion.
733
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,920
I think you narrowly escaped death.
734
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,280
Yeah, I did. I did. I did.
735
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,560
Yeah.
736
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,840
It would be, erm, disrespectful
737
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,560
if I didn't make
the most of my life, to be fair.
738
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,240
Ash! Yo. Good on Hannah.
739
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:54,800
All right, let's shoot.
740
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,840
All right. Lovely. Thank you.
741
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,040
Excited, energy, guys.
742
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,600
In West London, Ashley was shooting
a scene
743
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,040
on the Disney+ historical drama
A Thousand Blows.
744
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,560
Here he is. Are we staying out of
your way?
745
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,680
I want to see you in work mode.
How are you doing? You all right?
746
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,760
Yeah. All good, man.
Thanks for coming in.
747
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,840
This is a very big operation. It is
a bloody big operation! It's major.
748
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,160
Yeah. Yeah, that frame's good.
749
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,640
Well, let's do those two shots.
750
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,440
Looking on at Ashley,
751
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,640
immersed in the pressures of his
first big budget directing gig,
752
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,760
I had a moment to reflect on him,
753
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,800
the long journey he's been on,
754
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,360
his challenges and coming back
and imbuing his work
755
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,440
with everything
he's learned along the way.
756
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,920
Hey! All right, Stephen. Louis. Hi.
757
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,120
Yeah. I've met you, but it was very
brief. Yeah, yeah.
758
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,800
Nice to meet you.
759
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,840
Among the actors are two of
the show's executive producers,
760
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,880
Ashley's friends,
Hannah Walters and Stephen Graham.
761
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,400
How is it that you connected
with Ashley on this?
762
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,320
And what was it about Ashley
that you thought would work?
763
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,000
Obviously, when we offered him
the role,
764
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,400
to watch his - like I just said
then - his dedication,
765
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,680
his preparation,
766
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,520
the amount of work
he puts in off set is phenomenal.
767
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,040
Do you know what I mean?
768
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,720
And I think that's, knowing Ashley
the way I do, I think
769
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,720
that was his own little thing
to prove to himself
770
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,640
and to prove
to other people when he got on set
771
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,000
that he knew what he was doing.
772
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,280
I'm not just saying it's
because we're working class,
773
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,560
but it's that kind of impostor
syndrome that I think
774
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,040
many of us have in this industry.
Do you know what I mean? 100%, yeah.
775
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,960
And we'll cut there.
Thank you very much.
776
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,160
One more, one more.
Do one more. One more for luck.
777
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,720
I'll tell you what I wanted to ask
about.
778
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:06,920
I was reading a profile of you
from 2001 in The Guardian.
779
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,320
Mm. The Guardian newspaper.
780
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,000
"I just want to be safe.
781
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,760
"Not mad rich.
782
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120
"Just to be safe is good, man."
783
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,200
I just thought there was
something touching
784
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,800
and kind of interesting about having
the ambition of being safe.
785
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,640
Right? Mm.
It's quite a low bar, in one sense.
786
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,280
Yeah? You know, it's something
I certainly take for granted.
787
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,240
Do you feel pretty safe now?
788
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:33,880
I feel safe enough.
789
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,960
I think, I think my energy now is
more about like...
790
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,160
..trusting people.
791
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,400
They're not going to be kicking off
the door
792
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,960
pointing guns at me any more. Those
days are done.
793
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,720
What I fear is people being
manipulative.
794
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:51,600
What I fear is people being around
me for the wrong reasons.
795
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,240
Do you know what I mean?
796
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,520
This is why I've created a world
for myself
797
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,680
that I very rarely
have to step out of,
798
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,000
and I very rarely let other people
into.
799
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,480
How healthy that is, I don't know.
800
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,320
You keep the world at a distance
a little bit.
801
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,640
Yeah. Try to. Not now. Look at you
lot.
802
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,360
Yeah. You know what I mean?
803
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,480
It's come and found you. Mm.
804
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,920
That's the perils of success.
805
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,480
I guess so. I guess so.
806
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,120
The world beats a path to your door.
807
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,680
And what makes you think it
might not be healthy?
808
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,600
Because, I mean, being the way that
I am
809
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,360
means that there's no new people
810
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,520
that really get to come into the
circle.
811
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,640
And there's some people that
would be really cool to be around
812
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,480
and, you know...
HE LAUGHS
813
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,960
Yeah, like,
am I missing out on good things?
814
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,040
How is your mental health,
would you say?
815
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,960
Does it feel to you
like you're in a good spot,
816
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,120
in a good place, more or less?
817
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,520
I keep an eye on it every day,
Louis. Do you?
818
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,400
Like, I-I have a...
819
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,960
..I have a messy head.
820
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:07,840
And that takes daily maintenance.
821
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,000
That takes meditation.
822
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,680
That takes prayer. Really?
That takes connection.
823
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,680
Like, that's what keeps me afloat.
824
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,960
When you say you've got a messy
head, can you be more specific?
825
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,240
That's how I wake up in the morning.
826
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:28,360
Negativity? Wayward impulses?
Self-sabotage?
827
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,960
Maybe all of the above,
if I'm honest sometimes.
828
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,680
Yeah.
829
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,880
And that's still on a daily basis?
830
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,040
That'll be every day for
the rest of my life.
831
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,880
That'll be every day.
832
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,760
CHILDREN LAUGH
833
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,760
Is that normal?
834
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,600
How old is Max? Max is two!
He seems very affectionate.
835
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,160
Not much use as a guard dog. Mm.
836
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,520
I've successfully put him
in a trance.
837
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:07,920
So embarrassing.
838
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,200
They say you can judge a lot
about an owner from his dog.
839
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,920
Very trusting.
840
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,040
He is very trusting.
841
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,920
He's too trusting.
842
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,800
HE LAUGHS