1 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,960 This programme contains some strong language 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:07,600 # My money doesn't jiggle jiggle It folds 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,280 # I like to see you wiggle wiggle For sure 4 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:10,600 # If you wanna dribble dribble 5 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,640 # You know, riding in my Fiat You really have to see it 6 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:15,440 # Six feet two in a compact 7 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:16,840 # No slack 8 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,080 # Luckily the seats go back 9 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:21,760 # I've got a knack to relax in my mind 10 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,920 # Sipping some red, red wine. # 11 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,280 Woo! 12 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,240 That was incredible. You killed it! 13 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:34,240 At the home of Ashley Walters, 14 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,240 I was being treated to a recital of classic rap tracks. 15 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,640 Do you know a rap called 21 Seconds? BOTH: Yeah! 16 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,600 How does that one go? 17 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,560 # I got 21 seconds to flow I got 21 seconds to go 18 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,520 # Cos if you like me lemme know 19 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,880 # Let me in da studio I got 21 seconds before I got to go 20 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,960 # 21 seconds, t-t-t 21 seconds, t-t-t 21 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,360 You could have sang it with us. 22 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,000 I don't know the words, baby, I don't know... Yes, you do! 23 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,400 You are the person that sang it! 24 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,600 You're the person that sang it! Aw, shush. 25 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,600 So, should we get to the interview? 26 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:10,960 Yeah, I'm ready to go. You lead the way. 27 00:01:10,960 --> 00:01:14,720 The actor and star of one of Britain's biggest TV exports 28 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,560 had let me in for a rare behind the scenes look at his life, 29 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,840 and to share the untold story of his rise to fame. 30 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,000 Is that good? You don't want to feel... 31 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,680 Like I look over-relaxed. 32 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,880 Sometimes you look at yourself and I'm like, "I look sort of lazy." 33 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,000 Like, "Tell me more about your career, Ashley..." 34 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,280 Do you know what I mean? 35 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,000 I just don't want to look... Like, I want to look like I'm attentive 36 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,640 and respectful and paying attention. 37 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,720 It's all good, man, relax. Make yourself at home. Calm down, Louis. 38 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,120 I first met Ashley in Soho, 39 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,960 in the heart of London's trendy media village. 40 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,840 He was hosting a screening 41 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,600 of the last season of his critically acclaimed series Top Boy, 42 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,200 which was about to be released on Netflix. 43 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,480 There he is. Hiya, how are you doing? 44 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:09,400 Good, man. Nice to meet you. 45 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:10,720 You too. I feel like I know you. 46 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,320 Yeah. I feel like I know you as well. Watched a lot of your stuff. 47 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,560 This is my wife, Danielle. How do you do, Louis? 48 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,480 Nice to meet you, Danielle. Nice to meet you. Top Boy. The grand finale. 49 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,200 Yeah. Yeah. It's coming up. 50 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:21,480 I'm a big fan. Thank you. 51 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,400 And I'm from Southside. Are you? 52 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:24,840 So hopefully no beef. 53 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,000 No, no, no. We are good. We ain't got no beef, man. 54 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,080 Shall we go in? Yeah, man. Here we go. 55 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:34,600 Hi, everyone. 56 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,680 CHEERING 57 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,920 Good to see you all here. 58 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:44,200 Yeah. Look, Top Boy. 59 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,640 Last season. Final chapter for the show. 60 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:48,480 Final chapter for me. 61 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,040 It's been a show that I've been on for, like, over a decade. 62 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,760 Basically, everyone in this room is my circle. 63 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,720 Like, I don't have a really, really wide, wide circle. 64 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,280 I very rarely come out of my house, as people know, unless I'm working. 65 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,240 So I'm happy to be able to share it with you, 66 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,320 so you know that I'm not just hiding somewhere and avoiding you. 67 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,080 Like, I am actually out there working. 68 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,080 You know, this is what I've been doing. 69 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,880 All right. Episode one of Top Boy, guys. Enjoy. 70 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,360 Top Boy is a wildly popular drama series 71 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,920 set in a Hackney housing estate 72 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:31,360 in which Ashley stars as the drug kingpin, Dushane. 73 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,760 I've had a long fucking day, bro. 74 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,480 I'll give you a piece of advice. 75 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,280 Do what the fuck I'm telling you to do. 76 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,080 His smouldering authenticity in the role 77 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,120 has brought him international recognition 78 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,240 following years of work in British and American films and TV. 79 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:54,560 Yes. 80 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,560 # They don't know about my crew... # 81 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,520 But Ashley's path has been far from conventional, 82 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,960 including a pioneering role in the UK garage scene. 83 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,880 The best UK Garage Act is... 84 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,800 ..So Solid. 85 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,400 And a high-profile legal case and prison sentence 86 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,760 that threatened to permanently derail his career. 87 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,400 Ashley Walters, better known to his fans as Asher D, 88 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,680 was jailed for 18 months 89 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,840 after police found him with a loaded weapon. 90 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,200 With his latest release, Ashley is a man enjoying his moment. 91 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,800 I'm so proud, man. Bless you. 92 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,200 Oh, man. 93 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,360 Oh, my God. 94 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:40,840 Amazing, Ash. 95 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,720 Though he grew up in Peckham, southeast London, 96 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,760 for the past few years, Ashley has lived in Kent on the Thames estuary, 97 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,120 an area known for its beaches and its tranquillity. 98 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:05,320 So what's the... What's this? 99 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,200 Our son wants a praying mantis. 100 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,600 And we said, "Well, if you can look after a stick insect, 101 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,280 "then you can have the praying mantis." 102 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:14,120 What's the name of the stick insect? Barry. Barry? 103 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:18,040 Barry, yeah. Does Barry have quite a lot of personality? 104 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,640 No. No. He's essentially a stick. Wow. 105 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,560 He's about to go on your face, that what he's about to do. 106 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,120 You think I'm going to be a wimp about this, but I'm not. 107 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,800 No. You know, I've, I've never... 108 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,640 I've never touched him. 109 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,000 It's just like, I don't do insects. 110 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,280 Spiders. Spiders. Anything like that. Really? 111 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:39,760 Yeah. I'm the one that... Fly. Anything that flies. 112 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,600 Other than planes - don't bring them near me. 113 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:48,720 When the time came to speak, 114 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,480 I was hoping to understand 115 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:55,160 something of both Ashley's real-life struggles and his acting prowess 116 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,040 and whether the two might even be related. 117 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,400 Thank you for doing this, man. 118 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,560 Why? 119 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,200 Because I don't like people in my house. 120 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,200 So even my family have a certain amount of time in here, 121 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,040 and then it's like... 122 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,760 No, I love my family, but I'm, like, quite a reserved, 123 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,520 introverted sort of person. 124 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,760 Having people in my space, do you know what I mean? 125 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,400 It's different for me. Yeah. 126 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:30,200 Um, social anxiety comes up for me a lot. 127 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,400 Appreciate it. Thank you for doing it. 128 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,440 No problem. Thank you for having me. 129 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,120 I'd like to start by reflecting on kind of where you are now 130 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,800 a little bit in terms of your career. 131 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,720 You're riding high. You've got this hit show, Top Boy. 132 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,520 For people who don't know, 133 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,440 how would you characterise what the show is and who you are in it? 134 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,640 Top Boy is a TV drama about organised crime in east London 135 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,160 and the journey of one man's attempt 136 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,760 to become top of the food chain in the drug game. 137 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,560 For me, Top Boy stood out 138 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,960 just for making characters human and 3D 139 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:15,080 and not getting your typical bad boy, gangster sort of stereotype. 140 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,720 We were talking about mental health, we're talking about neglect, 141 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,000 you're talking about poverty. 142 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,000 And for me, that was real. 143 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,240 You know, the drugs was a sideline 144 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,080 of what was going on in these people's heads. 145 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:35,240 And I feel like if you're going to be playing drug dealers, 146 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,400 there are plenty of drug dealers out there. 147 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,280 And actually, this may sound really weird 148 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,320 and I don't want people to take it the wrong way, 149 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,000 but my main thing is to honour them. 150 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,200 Honour who? The drug dealers? 151 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,520 Well, yeah. If I'm playing a drug dealer, 152 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,800 I want drug dealers to watch the show and go, "That's good." Mm. 153 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,000 Like, "I feel like that resonates." 154 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,400 Has it felt like it's mainly a positive experience 155 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,800 in terms of how it's been received? 156 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,880 There's been one or two high-profile people who called it out and said, 157 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,600 "This isn't what we need to be saying about the black community." 158 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,760 When that happened, I was quite shocked, actually. 159 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,280 Especially if they're black. 160 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,600 If you look at what Top Boy's done, 161 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:19,400 it's probably our only show from that genre that exports worldwide. 162 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:24,840 Outside of that, we have maybe Sex Education, The Crown 163 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,560 and just period drama in general. 164 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,360 Downton Abbey. Downton Abbey. 165 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:30,760 Doctor Who. Doctor Who. 166 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,440 Which you've also been in. 167 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,200 Which I've also been in. 168 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,960 That was a good episode. Thank you very much. 169 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,160 I think Doctor Who fans are, like, a lot wilder than Top Boy fans. 170 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,280 Whovian is the word you're looking for. 171 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,240 Oh, is that, is that the term, yeah? OK. 172 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,120 Whovian. You learn something... You kind of have to be a Whovian 173 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,880 to know the word Whovian. Mm. 174 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,400 I'm Doctor Who at six o'clock and Top Boy at 9.30. 175 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:56,960 Well, there you go. 176 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,440 But your point was that Top Boy had reached that pinnacle of, 177 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:02,720 well, international reach. 178 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,520 And actually, we should celebrate something that has that level... 179 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,040 We should celebrate it. And it's a door opener. 180 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,520 The point I was trying to make is if you don't like it, 181 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,320 you don't like it, that's fine. But it's more than just a TV show. 182 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,680 It's a bit of history, 183 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:23,080 and it's a door that's open now for a lot of black actors and creatives. 184 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,400 You should be worrying about my money, though. 185 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,400 Ashley's success comes off the back of years of learning his craft 186 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,080 as a jobbing actor in theatre and film and TV, 187 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,440 starting aged just 14 with a role in Grange Hill. 188 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,040 Hi, sis, I've got it all worked out, right? 189 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,280 The party was your idea 190 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,800 and I was in my room all night doing my homework, yeah? 191 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,960 Joke! Just a joke. 192 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,800 MUSIC: 21 Seconds by So Solid Crew 193 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,520 But he had his first blush of fame in his late teens, 194 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,080 making music under the name Asher D after joining So Solid Crew, 195 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:08,840 a collective of MCs and producers 196 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,200 formed by south London rap mogul Mega Man. 197 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,800 So Solid had four top ten hits to their name, 198 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,840 including the legendary 21 Seconds... 199 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,280 # I got 21 seconds to go... # 200 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,200 ..before disintegrating under the weight of criminal cases 201 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,600 and government disapproval. 202 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,600 # I got 21 seconds before I got to go. # 203 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:37,960 Shall we talk about So Solid, 204 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,960 this legendary foundational rap collective? 205 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,400 Well, garage collective. Mm. 206 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,120 It's amazing how quickly it all blew up. Mm. 207 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,800 It felt like the culture had been waiting 208 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,280 for something like this to happen, 209 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,240 something that felt homegrown and authentic 210 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,000 and a little bit dangerous. 211 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,920 There was a lot of voiceless people at that time. 212 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,920 You know, what we spoke or what we stood for 213 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,400 was, like, a disenfranchised sort of youth 214 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,760 that just felt neglected and left out. 215 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,440 It became a huge story, 216 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,360 and the idea that So Solid was associated with negativity. 217 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,520 Home Secretary David Blunkett 218 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,120 made a sort of disparaging remark about the group, you know, 219 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,440 "They're contributing to gun crime, 220 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,040 "they're part of this rampant social problem that we have." 221 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,880 I just wonder what that felt like from the inside. 222 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,080 We felt we were like the correspondents, I guess, 223 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,760 of our space. 224 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,640 Do you know what I'm saying? 225 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,040 Because we were out there on the front line 226 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,840 reporting what was going on around us, 227 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,840 because no-one else was talking about it. 228 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,920 I mean, a lot of the time, my music was about fear. 229 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,960 It was about fearing for my life. 230 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,160 When people are outside your house pointing guns at you, 231 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,560 or shooting at your car or whatever, then there is a threat. 232 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:56,480 These things were happening? These things were happening, yeah. 233 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,600 You said you had a gun pulled on you 234 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,440 when you were carrying your baby at the time? Mm. 235 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:02,600 Yeah. 236 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,600 What was that all about? Do you know who it was? 237 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:08,920 Just intimidation. 238 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,080 I made a comment on radio. 239 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,760 Lyrics that I'd wrote, someone was copying 240 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,080 and I just made a passing comment of, like, 241 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,040 "Whoever's doing that, be original." 242 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,400 You know what I mean? 243 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,760 Maybe said it in a slightly more aggressive way than that. 244 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,360 And they pulled up at my house. 245 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,560 Like, I had to learn a lot of lessons. 246 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,840 I wasn't... I was never the one from the group, 247 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,480 and I put my hands up and say this, I didn't... 248 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,360 My upbringing was OK. Do you know what I mean? 249 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,760 I didn't grow up rich, 250 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,200 but I had no reason to sell drugs or to be out on the street. 251 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,040 Do you get what I'm saying? 252 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,560 But I was walking with some real gangsters at the time, 253 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:53,800 so, easy for me to become a target. 254 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,520 And then there came a time when you went and got... 255 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,720 I went and bought a gun. A gun. 256 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,080 Yeah. For £1,300. 257 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,080 Is that right? 258 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,000 You done the research. That's what it said. 259 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,920 It seemed quite expensive. 260 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,320 Yeah. Probably was. 261 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,240 Especially because it said it was a modified air pistol. Yeah. 262 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,880 When you think of air pistol, doesn't sound, 263 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,920 I mean, I don't mean to, I don't know, 264 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,200 I'm in danger of trivialising it. 265 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,680 Dangerous enough. Dangerous enough. 266 00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,520 Where did you get the gun from? 267 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,400 Nowhere. 268 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,960 Dates, names, places. 269 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,080 You must be crazy. 270 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,520 Was it hard to get it? 271 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:31,520 No. 272 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,240 My aim was to protect myself. 273 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:38,840 But it's something that comes with owning a firearm, 274 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,880 like a sense of power, 275 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:48,160 entitlement that grew within me. 276 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,240 So at some point, it stopped being about fear 277 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,680 and more about control. 278 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,560 Know what I mean? Mm-hm. 279 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,880 I think that's where it kind of went wrong for me. 280 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,880 How I got caught was having an argument with a traffic warden, 281 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,320 and I made some harsh comments that involved firearms. 282 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,120 You said, "I'm going to come and shoot you." Something like that. 283 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,760 Along those lines. 284 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,120 Presumably, you didn't mean it. 285 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,200 No. 286 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,520 No, I weren't willing to risk my liberty 287 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,560 over shooting a traffic warden. 288 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:30,720 But, I mean, I made my comments. Said what I said. 289 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,840 But, yeah, I left and not too long after, 290 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:37,320 armed police stopped me in Haymarket and arrested me. 291 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,160 In Haymarket in the West End? In the West End. Yeah. 292 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,840 Did they pull guns on you? Yeah. 293 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,760 Were you with your girlfriend at the time? 294 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,800 I was. She was in the vehicle? And my kids. 295 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,840 And your kids as well? Mm. 296 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,920 That sounds horrific. It was horrific, 297 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,160 but my biggest regret is that my kids were there. 298 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,680 They gave you 18 months? 299 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,400 Yeah. And then you did seven months in the end? 300 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:06,560 Yeah. 301 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,480 And it was a tough time. 302 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,840 It was a tough time. 303 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,520 But it was a long time ago. 304 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,000 And I think it's the most boring topic 305 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,440 that any interviewer could ever choose to talk to me about, 306 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,640 in my opinion. 307 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,160 Yeah. Nah. Good bants. 308 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,720 Nah. Look, it was a big... It was a big part of my life 309 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,320 and I didn't ever want to go back. 310 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,480 Back to prison? Yeah, back to prison. Yeah. 311 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,680 Ashley's imprisonment 312 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,160 and a bout of depression that followed after he was released 313 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,240 would turn out to be his lowest ebb, 314 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,520 but also the beginning of a comeback. 315 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,600 Come on, sleepy head. Time to go home. 316 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,840 With his role in Bullet Boy, 317 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,840 a film written for him based on his real-life prison experience, 318 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,440 he embarked on a full-time acting career. 319 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,520 How many men, yeah, go to jail, yeah, 320 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,560 and have their mum come to pick them up after that? 321 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,200 It's a bit embarrassing, innit? 322 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,200 How long have you been in this house, if I may ask? 323 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:23,920 Just over two years. 324 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,600 You got so much space. 325 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,360 Yeah, it's a lot of space. 326 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,200 This will be an indoor swimming pool. Gym. 327 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,200 I'd like to get, like, a cinema here as well. 328 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,360 You said there was a planning application war? 329 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,920 What's that all about? There was, yeah. 330 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:40,080 We've appealed. 331 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,520 Now we're going to try and go to a committee. 332 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,960 And then, I mean, I guess after that... 333 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,160 ..it's moving, really. 334 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,800 I thought you were going to say something else. No. 335 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,040 No, not any more. 336 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,640 I'm a changed man. 337 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,040 So you've got the history of So Solid, really, in CD form? 338 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,160 Well, some plaques that I earned, 339 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,080 got the Platinum Sales Award for the album. 340 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,560 That was our first album, They Don't know. 341 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,080 I've got some clapperboards. 342 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:13,840 Clapperboards. Yeah. 343 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,480 But we've got, look, A Thousand Blows, which is a TV show. 344 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:18,920 That's a new project. 345 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,080 This is my third directing job. 346 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,440 That looks cool. It's a period drama. Period drama. 347 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,640 Created by the guy who created Peaky Blinders. 348 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,160 Is that right? Yeah, Steven Knight. 349 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,640 So they actually... I've never done that before. No? 350 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,240 30 years, I've been in television. 351 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,480 That's the first time I've ever done that. 352 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:37,720 It feels good. 353 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,160 And... 354 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,440 Cut. 355 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,520 Is that your gym? Do you want to have a look? 356 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,920 Come on, then. Do you do much working out? 357 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,040 Every day, I work out, you know. 358 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,800 Wow. Impressive. 359 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:02,000 Yeah, that was a couple of years ago. 360 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,760 It's meant to be inspiration to get back. 361 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,320 Muscle-spiration. Hmm. 362 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,920 You're training, though, right? Do you have to ask? 363 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,200 Should I see if I can pick up one of these or not? Test me... 364 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,480 Not that bad. 365 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,160 Curl it or lift it? The shoulders, mainly, with that one. 366 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:20,920 Am I holding it the right way round? 367 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:21,920 Yeah. 368 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,560 Yeah, you are quite tall. 369 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,560 That's not too bad. Nah. You're all right. 370 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,560 That's not too bad, Rachel's smiling. 371 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:28,840 Does it look ridiculous? 372 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,160 No. It looks... This is so light. 373 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,560 It's like a balloon. 374 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,160 I feel like it's making you look, like, 375 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,800 a lot stronger than you probably are. 376 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,000 How dare you? I heard that. 377 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,200 I don't think you can lift that up. 378 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,240 ASHLEY LAUGHS 379 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,840 That's what I would usually do. 380 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,160 Impressive. 381 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,840 Point taken. 382 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:56,920 Wow. 383 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,680 You mentioned that you've stopped drinking. 384 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:00,920 Yeah. 385 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,520 One was never enough for me. 386 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,840 Me stopping coincided with lockdown. 387 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,480 I was drinking most of the day. 388 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,920 I think it became apparent to everyone else around me 389 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,960 that it was like, it's time. 390 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,040 Was it hard to stop? I will stick at something. 391 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,480 Do you know what I mean? Mm-hm. I've always been like that. 392 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:25,600 Once I'm on it, I will, I'll see it through to the end. 393 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:26,600 Mm-hm. 394 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:29,480 You know? 395 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,080 Yeah. 396 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,880 That is a huge spider. 397 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,280 Want me to sort it out? 398 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,320 I mean, you can say hello to it. Are you serious? 399 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,520 Come on. 400 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,080 Look at him. 401 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,920 He wants nothing more than to have a cuddle with his friend Ashley. 402 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,640 I'm going to take him outside. 403 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,760 Spiders are our friends. 404 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,880 Your friends. 405 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,320 Ashley's struggles with alcohol and his mental health 406 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,040 are something he's been open about in interviews. 407 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,360 His move to Kent in 2021 with his wife of ten years, 408 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,920 Danielle Walters, also an actor, was in part in search of a calmer, 409 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:26,560 lower profile existence away from the pressures of London life. 410 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,200 Max, come on, please, mate. Babe. 411 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,360 Come on, son. 412 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:32,440 We had a deal. 413 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,040 If I buy a house, I'm allowed a dog. 414 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,160 But she has to pick the dog. 415 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,640 I'd like a couple of Dobermans. 416 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,960 Anyway, I took what I could get. You love him, don't you? 417 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,360 Yeah, course I love Max. 418 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:46,760 I just wish he was a bit bigger and more vicious. 419 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,760 How did the two of you meet, may I ask? 420 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,600 I was doing a show on MTV. 421 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,680 And I was meant to have a love interest in this party scene. 422 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,000 And Dan was cast for that part. 423 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,480 I apparently... I was wearing trousers. 424 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,480 And I apparently said to the wardrobe people, 425 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,680 she should be wearing a skirt. "Put her in a skirt." 426 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,680 That's exactly what he said. And I was like... 427 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,080 This is the wrong narrative to be putting out there. I know. 428 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,960 Especially in 2023 with all the stuff that's going on with... 429 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,360 This was 20-odd years ago. ..with Me Too and that. 430 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:24,200 I never... I know I never said that. 431 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,280 And if I did say it, 432 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,400 it was a creative decision. And then at lunch, 433 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,920 I was sitting by myself and he went, "Come over here." 434 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,680 And I was like, "No." 435 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,760 And he was like, "Come on, just come over here." 436 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:35,240 I sat with him, and then I thought, 437 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,920 "Do you know what," after the conversation, "He's quite cool. 438 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,280 "He's all right." He was just being a... I don't know. An idiot. 439 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,320 Something I was talking to Ashley about 440 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,520 was how he's a very private person. 441 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,600 Right? And maybe he's quite introspective. 442 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,200 And behind that is a certain level of social anxiety. 443 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,800 Right? Mm. I'm wondering whether there's a role that you play 444 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,160 in terms of taking care of Ashley's sort of wellbeing. 445 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,840 Oh, 100%. I'm very, very protective of Ashley. 446 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760 Like, you see the other night 447 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:10,680 when I went to that Evening Standard thing, right? I was in the tux. 448 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,360 Yeah. And I FaceTimed you 449 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,920 and was on the phone with you, like, in the venue for how long? Yeah. 450 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,440 And you stayed on the phone and talked with me 451 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,920 because you knew that I was uncomfortable. Yeah. 452 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,760 And I just kind of wanted to go home. 453 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,840 In the beginning, when we first started dating and stuff, 454 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,400 I would bring you to events with me 455 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,520 because I didn't know how to have small talk. 456 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,680 Like, I found it really difficult 457 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,200 to just strike up conversations with people, 458 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,000 and I just know Dan is a talker. 459 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,400 I'll talk to anyone. Yeah, and she can always break the ice. 460 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,680 So just having my back like that... 461 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,040 And I have to go, "Babe, it's all right. It's OK." True. 462 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,560 "It's just fine." 463 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,400 Are those oyster beds over there? 464 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,800 Yes, they are. Yeah. 465 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,360 This is apparently the biggest oyster farm in Europe. 466 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,600 They're world famous. 467 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,240 You can find them in America sometimes. 468 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,160 What? Whitstable Oysters? Yeah. Whitstable Oysters. Yeah. 469 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:15,400 You all right? Can I get a portion of scampi? And half a dozen? Dozen? 470 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,840 Get a dozen. A dozen oysters, please. 471 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,960 I want a bit of everything. 472 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,480 Bit of lemon juice? 473 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,800 Yeah. Yeah. Why not? 474 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,520 Cheers. Cheers. 475 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,280 Mm-nm. 476 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,640 Look at your face. Whoa. Did you chew it? That's tangy. 477 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,680 Taste one. Are you out of your mind? 478 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,280 OK. I nearly threw up the last time I had an oyster. 479 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,080 There's an oyster hater over here. 480 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,440 MAN NEARBY: 481 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,200 Well, let him have it, then. 482 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,320 I only eat like 1,200, 1,200, 483 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,960 1,250 calories a day. 484 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,480 So when I do have oysters, 485 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,960 it's like my calorie intake is pretty much over. 486 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,840 I didn't have you pegged as a calorie-counter. 487 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,920 Well, I am at times. 488 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,680 I am at times when I need to, when I need to lose weight. 489 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,360 Ashley was saying that he's stopped drinking, 490 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:19,040 and that's been a positive. 491 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,720 Big positive. 492 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,080 A different person. 493 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,720 It caused arguments between us unnecessarily. 494 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,440 Just didn't need it in his life. 495 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,120 Do you do meetings? 496 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:34,280 Yeah. Do you? Yeah, I do a lot of meetings. 497 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,120 I mean, my life is pretty much based on recovery at this point 498 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,560 because I put it first. 499 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,600 Because whatever I put before that, I was pretty much going to lose, 500 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,560 if I'm honest with you. 501 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,440 So I stay close to recovery, 502 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,760 I stay close to my fellowship. 503 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,200 It's important to me. 504 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,400 What made you decide to finally get married? 505 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,000 My dream woman. 506 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,200 Oh, I was hoping you weren't going to say that. 507 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,680 Yeah, well. 508 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,880 Like, I loved her to death. 509 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:28,080 And then I wanted to, like, hang up my boots. 510 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,080 Had you been a bit of a Casanova in the past? 511 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,880 I wouldn't say a Casanova. 512 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,680 That's not, that's not me. 513 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,440 Don't get me wrong. I didn't shy away. 514 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,480 Like, I still managed to end up with eight kids. 515 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,240 Eight kids. 516 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,600 I think it's just three relationships. 517 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,680 Is that right? Yeah. Three's enough. 518 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,440 You had your first when you were just 17. Mm. 519 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,120 That's very young. Mmm. 520 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,800 And then you became a grandfather? 521 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,400 Yeah. 522 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,480 When you were, what, 36? 523 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,080 30... 38. ..8. Yeah. 524 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,240 Do you think you were able to be a good dad to the eight kids? 525 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,840 Try my best. Try my best. 526 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,640 They may not have the desired relationships 527 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,720 that they want with me. 528 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,520 I think mainly, I think mainly, that's with my older kids. 529 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,520 Do you know what I mean? Yeah. 530 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,200 I know, there have been moments 531 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,240 where I haven't been the best dad, because I couldn't be. 532 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,520 I wasn't around, or wasn't in the right place to be, right? 533 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,320 I feel like with my dad, I held his past against him. 534 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,800 I think my kids can sometimes do the same. 535 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,800 Ashley's father died in 2005, but before that, 536 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,480 he'd been an intermittent presence in Ashley's life. 537 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,480 What was preventing him from seeing more of you 538 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,720 when you were growing up? 539 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,240 I think his own demons that he was battling with. 540 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,840 He led quite a crazy lifestyle, you know, a lot of different women. 541 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,640 A lot of different kids? 542 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,040 Yeah. Yeah. 543 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,760 Brushes with the law as well, maybe? Brushes with the law. 544 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,440 Yeah. He sat down with the Queen quite a bit. 545 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,800 You said 17 times in one interview. 546 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,280 Yeah. Is that really possible? 547 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:19,720 Yeah. 548 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,560 He spent a lot of time... 549 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,960 He spent a lot of time in prison. 550 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,160 Do you feel like you had reached 551 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,200 a point of mutual love and understanding 552 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,720 by the end before he died? 553 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,160 Maybe not mutual. 554 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,920 I was angry. 555 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,920 Very, very angry. 556 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,920 Very angry with him. 557 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,760 And that made me angry with the world, man. 558 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:48,600 It's taken me to some dark places. 559 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,880 I've done some really stupid things. 560 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,840 And I've hurt some people, you know, people close to me, 561 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:04,600 but all of that anger and pain 562 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,560 and hurt that I had, 563 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,520 and the resentment that I had against him gave me fire. 564 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,760 If I haven't got talent in anything else, 565 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,560 I've always been able to use my pain for good use. 566 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,880 Ashley had arranged for us to visit his mum. 567 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,280 She lives in Hackney, 568 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,680 not far from some of the most iconic locations featured in Top Boy. 569 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,600 And so, en route, I'd asked 570 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,440 if we could take a short detour to see the sights. 571 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,320 Yes, chum. Yes, bro. 572 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,000 With the new series just launched, 573 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,000 featuring a controversial and bloody final episode, 574 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,040 it would be a chance to get some in-person audience feedback. 575 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,200 I can't tell you, bro. 576 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,280 Within minutes, the verdicts were coming in. 577 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,480 They take it so seriously. 578 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,080 I rate it, though. Appreciate it. 579 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360 But one thing I didn't like. What? 580 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,280 Yeah, I hear you man. I hear you. 581 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,960 Would I be able to get a quick snap with you, please? 582 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:31,520 Um, all right, cool. 583 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,240 But because we've stopped... I hear that... 584 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,760 Nice one, brother, bless. No worries, brother. 585 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,600 Nah, nah, I'm filming, bro. 586 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,440 Thank you very much for making me, bro. 587 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,200 Yes, big man. 588 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,080 Just off the market was another well-known Top Boy location 589 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,080 and hang spot for local characters. 590 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,280 Yeah, yeah, I know that. 591 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,640 Are you a fan? Did you watch Top Boy? 592 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,280 Yeah, bro, me watch the thing, man, 593 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,640 but me doesn't like the ending of the thing, you know? 594 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,000 You didn't like the ending? No, me don't like the ending. 595 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080 I couldn't sit by and watch a story 596 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,680 where they succeeded after everything that they've done. 597 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,080 Everyone's got a different opinion. 598 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,040 I hear you. Good point. Point taken. 599 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,560 My name's Jared. Good to meet you, brother. I'm a Rasta man. 600 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,160 Let me say, you know, for the world. 601 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,160 I'm from Montserrat. 602 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,880 Who's taking the picture? Ah, there. 603 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,280 What does that mean? That's the trinity sign. 604 00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,560 The trinity? Yes. Rastafari. 605 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,320 It's blessed. Guys, take care. Thank you so much, yeah. 606 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:03,560 Thank you. Bless man. 607 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,560 Ashley had told me about wanting Top Boy 608 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,160 to honour its real-life counterparts, 609 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,720 and so there was something heartening 610 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,920 about everyone's enthusiasm for the new season. 611 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:17,280 Have you seen Top Boy? 612 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,040 Yes. I think it's a great show. Have you seen the new...? 613 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,720 He used to be slim. He used to be slim. He's still slim! 614 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,160 What are you talking about? 615 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,360 Thank you very much. Sorry! 616 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,240 You head-butted me as well. You used to be slim. Let me get some... 617 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,600 What a way to just destroy me! 618 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,160 Sorry. You're still slim. 619 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,680 Don't you listen. It's all good, man. 620 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,480 I love my size. 621 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,040 A short walk away was the house belonging to Ashley's mum, Pam. 622 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,440 Hello. She lives with Ashley's stepdad and former manager, Richard. 623 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,960 Is it Richard? Yes. Louis. 624 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,920 Sorry, Richard. Louis. Lovely to meet you. 625 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,240 How are you doing? Can we come in? 626 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,360 Yeah, of course you can, don't be silly. 627 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,480 Little slice of heaven. 628 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,800 The family manor. 629 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,960 Hello. Hi, Pamela. Hiya, hi. 630 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,360 Sorry. Louis. How are you? Your house is beautiful. 631 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,040 Oh, thank you. 632 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,960 Hi, son. 633 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,960 Ashley had grown up Pam's only child. 634 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,680 With his dad not often around 635 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,160 and his mum holding down a full-time job with the council, 636 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,760 he'd been enrolled in a weekend drama school. 637 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,840 What have you got there? It's a folder. 638 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,680 This is a folder that I've kept for some time 639 00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,400 of bits and bobs of Ashley's work. 640 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,720 What are you hiding in there? Here we go. 641 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,640 Remember that? 642 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,000 Yeah. Oxford Street, yeah. 643 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,480 A play by Levi David Addai. 644 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,280 You stole that off the wall in the theatre. 645 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,000 I mean, this is an odd question, isn't it, 646 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,480 but would you say you're a fan? 647 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,240 I'm his biggest fan. 648 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:09,760 The only thing I would say, I'd prefer him to do more stage. 649 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,600 That was a good pivot. 650 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,560 We didn't stay very long on the positive. 651 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,640 Yeah, yeah, I know. 652 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,440 But this has been my life. 653 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,960 Trust me. 654 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,560 I feel what you're trying to say is, you enjoy when I'm on stage, 655 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,920 but I'm also very good in my TV shows and films and stuff? 656 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,400 No, but... You don't want to leave it? 657 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,440 LAUGHTER 658 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,000 Amazing. Amazing. 659 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,080 I like your dynamic. You kind of... 660 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,200 It's sort of like watching conversation tennis. 661 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,760 Yeah, no, this is how I've grown up. 662 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,840 I had to explain everything, being questioned. 663 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,040 "I rebelled against my strict upbringing." 664 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,760 It was strict. Was it? In what way? 665 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,000 It was definitely strict. 666 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:03,040 Look, most of those things like stage school, like piano, 667 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,720 like home tutoring, 668 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,600 I didn't want to do. 669 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,360 LAUGHTER Right. 670 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,280 But I would never sit here and go, 671 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,760 "That was the worst thing she ever did for me", 672 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,360 because it was amazing... Look at all the opportunities. 673 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,440 Look at all the opportunity came from that. 674 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,360 It was about trying to ensure 675 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:27,040 that his time was properly and meaningfully occupied. 676 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,680 We lived in a place where if young people are not fully occupied, 677 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,440 then what are they doing? 678 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:38,000 They're hanging around and maybe getting themselves into trouble. 679 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,280 It was only when I got to, like, maybe 16, I changed as a kid. 680 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,040 In those years is when I went out and I got in trouble, 681 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,920 it's when I got arrested, it's when I... Do you know what I mean? 682 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,240 I joined So Solid. 683 00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:56,280 I was doing, you know, it's not, like, rebelling against my mum, 684 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,120 but it was rebelling against, like, 685 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,520 all of those things that she'd built up for me 686 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,400 and how safe she kept me and whatever. 687 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,160 Can I ask about... I know from reading your book 688 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,560 and also from looking at the back of your neck 689 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,280 that there was a there was a time when you were attacked as well. 690 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,760 How old were you? 691 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,400 15. 15. Maybe. Yeah, something like that. 692 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,960 And it was just people... It wasn't people you knew, was it? 693 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,200 It was just like a couple of... No. 694 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:27,280 It was a couple of men who were in their, like, mid-thirties, 695 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,840 something like that, 696 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,640 Eastern European guys that were just drunk outside the off-licence. 697 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,320 And one of my friends got into an argument, 698 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,680 if I remember correctly, with these guys. 699 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,920 I mean, to be fair, it wasn't even my fight to fight, 700 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,360 but I was carrying a knife. 701 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,880 These are two big men. Right? And we're kids. 702 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,520 We're babies. 703 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,680 So they would have literally took the knife out of my hand, 704 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,800 threw it and started throwing us about, man. 705 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,240 But, yeah, in the end, 706 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,040 they just broke a bottle and just stabbed me in my neck. 707 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,600 But I didn't realise I'd been stabbed. 708 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,960 I just thought I'd been punched. 709 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,000 I didn't realise. It was only when my friends were like, 710 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,920 "Bro, you are bleeding." 711 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,040 And then I was like... Everything just faded to black. 712 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,920 I was gone. 713 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,680 I think that's the first and only time in my life 714 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,080 that I thought, "I'm dead." 715 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,320 I thought I was going to die 716 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,640 because I think it started to get black really slowly. 717 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,480 You know, it's like... 718 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,000 So I thought, "Ah, that's it." 719 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,880 But then I woke up. 720 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,840 Mum was there...crying. 721 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,000 So I actually thought they were going to come in there 722 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:44,320 and tell me that he had died. 723 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,440 I said to myself, "This only happens on the TV. 724 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,160 "This is not real." 725 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,320 So it was harrowing. 726 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,440 I'll never forget that day. 727 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:54,520 Erm... 728 00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,920 It still sends shudders down my spine now thinking about it. 729 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,680 We don't talk about... We've not really talked about this 730 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,200 because I've not really... 731 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,520 Hearing it from your perspective just sheds a new light on it for me. 732 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,640 I've just never heard you express that emotion. 733 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,920 I think you narrowly escaped death. 734 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,280 Yeah, I did. I did. I did. 735 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,560 Yeah. 736 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,840 It would be, erm, disrespectful 737 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,560 if I didn't make the most of my life, to be fair. 738 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,240 Ash! Yo. Good on Hannah. 739 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:54,800 All right, let's shoot. 740 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,840 All right. Lovely. Thank you. 741 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,040 Excited, energy, guys. 742 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,600 In West London, Ashley was shooting a scene 743 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,040 on the Disney+ historical drama A Thousand Blows. 744 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,560 Here he is. Are we staying out of your way? 745 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,680 I want to see you in work mode. How are you doing? You all right? 746 00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,760 Yeah. All good, man. Thanks for coming in. 747 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,840 This is a very big operation. It is a bloody big operation! It's major. 748 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,160 Yeah. Yeah, that frame's good. 749 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,640 Well, let's do those two shots. 750 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,440 Looking on at Ashley, 751 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,640 immersed in the pressures of his first big budget directing gig, 752 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,760 I had a moment to reflect on him, 753 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,800 the long journey he's been on, 754 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,360 his challenges and coming back and imbuing his work 755 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,440 with everything he's learned along the way. 756 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,920 Hey! All right, Stephen. Louis. Hi. 757 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,120 Yeah. I've met you, but it was very brief. Yeah, yeah. 758 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,800 Nice to meet you. 759 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,840 Among the actors are two of the show's executive producers, 760 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,880 Ashley's friends, Hannah Walters and Stephen Graham. 761 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,400 How is it that you connected with Ashley on this? 762 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,320 And what was it about Ashley that you thought would work? 763 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,000 Obviously, when we offered him the role, 764 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,400 to watch his - like I just said then - his dedication, 765 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,680 his preparation, 766 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,520 the amount of work he puts in off set is phenomenal. 767 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,040 Do you know what I mean? 768 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,720 And I think that's, knowing Ashley the way I do, I think 769 00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:22,720 that was his own little thing to prove to himself 770 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,640 and to prove to other people when he got on set 771 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,000 that he knew what he was doing. 772 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,280 I'm not just saying it's because we're working class, 773 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,560 but it's that kind of impostor syndrome that I think 774 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,040 many of us have in this industry. Do you know what I mean? 100%, yeah. 775 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,960 And we'll cut there. Thank you very much. 776 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,160 One more, one more. Do one more. One more for luck. 777 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,720 I'll tell you what I wanted to ask about. 778 00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:06,920 I was reading a profile of you from 2001 in The Guardian. 779 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,320 Mm. The Guardian newspaper. 780 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,000 "I just want to be safe. 781 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,760 "Not mad rich. 782 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120 "Just to be safe is good, man." 783 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,200 I just thought there was something touching 784 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,800 and kind of interesting about having the ambition of being safe. 785 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,640 Right? Mm. It's quite a low bar, in one sense. 786 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,280 Yeah? You know, it's something I certainly take for granted. 787 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,240 Do you feel pretty safe now? 788 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:33,880 I feel safe enough. 789 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,960 I think, I think my energy now is more about like... 790 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,160 ..trusting people. 791 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,400 They're not going to be kicking off the door 792 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,960 pointing guns at me any more. Those days are done. 793 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,720 What I fear is people being manipulative. 794 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:51,600 What I fear is people being around me for the wrong reasons. 795 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,240 Do you know what I mean? 796 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,520 This is why I've created a world for myself 797 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,680 that I very rarely have to step out of, 798 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,000 and I very rarely let other people into. 799 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:05,480 How healthy that is, I don't know. 800 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,320 You keep the world at a distance a little bit. 801 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,640 Yeah. Try to. Not now. Look at you lot. 802 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,360 Yeah. You know what I mean? 803 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,480 It's come and found you. Mm. 804 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,920 That's the perils of success. 805 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,480 I guess so. I guess so. 806 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,120 The world beats a path to your door. 807 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,680 And what makes you think it might not be healthy? 808 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,600 Because, I mean, being the way that I am 809 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,360 means that there's no new people 810 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,520 that really get to come into the circle. 811 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,640 And there's some people that would be really cool to be around 812 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,480 and, you know... HE LAUGHS 813 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,960 Yeah, like, am I missing out on good things? 814 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,040 How is your mental health, would you say? 815 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,960 Does it feel to you like you're in a good spot, 816 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,120 in a good place, more or less? 817 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,520 I keep an eye on it every day, Louis. Do you? 818 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,400 Like, I-I have a... 819 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,960 ..I have a messy head. 820 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:07,840 And that takes daily maintenance. 821 00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,000 That takes meditation. 822 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,680 That takes prayer. Really? That takes connection. 823 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,680 Like, that's what keeps me afloat. 824 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,960 When you say you've got a messy head, can you be more specific? 825 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,240 That's how I wake up in the morning. 826 00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:28,360 Negativity? Wayward impulses? Self-sabotage? 827 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,960 Maybe all of the above, if I'm honest sometimes. 828 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,680 Yeah. 829 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,880 And that's still on a daily basis? 830 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,040 That'll be every day for the rest of my life. 831 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:41,880 That'll be every day. 832 00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:53,760 CHILDREN LAUGH 833 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,760 Is that normal? 834 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,600 How old is Max? Max is two! He seems very affectionate. 835 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,160 Not much use as a guard dog. Mm. 836 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,520 I've successfully put him in a trance. 837 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:07,920 So embarrassing. 838 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,200 They say you can judge a lot about an owner from his dog. 839 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,920 Very trusting. 840 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,040 He is very trusting. 841 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,920 He's too trusting. 842 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,800 HE LAUGHS