1 00:00:06,006 --> 00:00:07,632 [eerie music playing] 2 00:00:10,552 --> 00:00:12,363 - [phone rings] - [dispatcher] Fire department. 3 00:00:12,387 --> 00:00:15,932 [woman] Yes, could you send an ambulance on the corner of 25th and State? 4 00:00:17,183 --> 00:00:18,518 [dispatcher] What's the problem? 5 00:00:18,601 --> 00:00:21,771 [woman] There's this butt-naked young boy or man, or whatever. 6 00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:24,816 He's still out, and people's trying to help him stand. He can't stand. 7 00:00:24,899 --> 00:00:27,360 He has no clothes on. He's very hurt. 8 00:00:29,195 --> 00:00:31,614 - [dispatcher] Is he awake? - [woman] He ain't awake. 9 00:00:31,698 --> 00:00:34,010 They trying to get him to walk, but he can't walk straight, 10 00:00:34,034 --> 00:00:35,452 can't even see straight. 11 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:39,159 - [woman] Anytime he stand up, he falls. - [dispatcher speaking indistinctly] 12 00:00:39,539 --> 00:00:41,708 - [dispatcher] 25th and State? - [woman] Yeah. 13 00:00:41,791 --> 00:00:44,351 - [dispatcher] All right. Okay. - [woman] The one-way. Okay. Bye. 14 00:00:45,003 --> 00:00:46,463 [tape rolling] 15 00:00:49,007 --> 00:00:50,550 [police sirens wailing] 16 00:00:50,633 --> 00:00:53,595 What happened that night, it's unbelievable. 17 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:58,683 [McCann] Here's this young man, naked, outside Dahmer's apartment building. 18 00:00:58,767 --> 00:01:00,727 He had not a stitch of clothing on. 19 00:01:00,810 --> 00:01:03,646 Two people summoned the fire department and the police 20 00:01:03,730 --> 00:01:07,400 because some of them saw he had blood running out of his rectum. 21 00:01:07,484 --> 00:01:09,652 [Anne Schwartz] He had a scrape on his knee. 22 00:01:10,487 --> 00:01:13,948 He was clearly dazed from something. 23 00:01:14,824 --> 00:01:16,618 [Causey] Why is this boy, 24 00:01:16,701 --> 00:01:20,205 naked, bleeding, and incoherent 25 00:01:20,288 --> 00:01:22,290 on the streets of Milwaukee? 26 00:01:25,919 --> 00:01:27,587 [theme music playing] 27 00:01:46,064 --> 00:01:47,732 [uneasy music playing] 28 00:01:50,610 --> 00:01:52,695 We had a mall called the Grand Avenue, 29 00:01:53,822 --> 00:01:57,158 and Jeffrey Dahmer was in the mall all the time. 30 00:01:58,660 --> 00:02:00,954 We would see him in the food court, 31 00:02:01,496 --> 00:02:03,248 walking up and down the mall. 32 00:02:04,332 --> 00:02:06,209 He took pictures of people, 33 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,128 and he'd say, 34 00:02:08,211 --> 00:02:11,214 "You look like a model. Want me to take your picture?" 35 00:02:12,757 --> 00:02:13,842 [tape rolling] 36 00:02:19,806 --> 00:02:22,517 Dahmer was sitting having pizza and a beer 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:24,894 when he saw an attractive young man, 38 00:02:24,978 --> 00:02:27,564 Konerak Sinthasomphone, come by, 39 00:02:27,647 --> 00:02:30,191 whom he engaged in conversation. 40 00:02:30,733 --> 00:02:33,403 He offered the young man $50 41 00:02:33,486 --> 00:02:34,988 to pose for pictures. 42 00:02:36,573 --> 00:02:38,241 And the young man 43 00:02:38,324 --> 00:02:41,327 agreed to go back to Dahmer's apartment with him. 44 00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:45,832 [Meuler] In the apartment, Dahmer hands him this drink 45 00:02:45,915 --> 00:02:48,960 with the amount of Halcion that was able to 46 00:02:49,043 --> 00:02:51,171 render him unconscious for a while. 47 00:02:51,254 --> 00:02:55,175 Dahmer wanted to keep this victim alive as long as he could. 48 00:02:58,845 --> 00:03:00,889 [Dr. Smail] In my sessions with him, 49 00:03:00,972 --> 00:03:04,809 Mr. Dahmer told me what he wanted was somebody perfectly compliant, 50 00:03:05,518 --> 00:03:08,855 who would stay with him without fear of leaving. 51 00:03:11,816 --> 00:03:14,879 [Jeffrey from recorder] There were a few where I tried the drilling technique. 52 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:17,405 And I did the drilling with him too. 53 00:03:17,488 --> 00:03:18,489 [Dr. Smail] You did? 54 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:20,116 [Jeffrey] Mm-hmm. 55 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,326 [Dr. Smail] At what point? 56 00:03:21,409 --> 00:03:23,995 - Uh... - Before the officers came or after? 57 00:03:24,078 --> 00:03:26,164 [Jeffrey] Yeah, before the officers came. 58 00:03:28,291 --> 00:03:32,545 Jeffrey told me about, uh, Konerak, 59 00:03:32,629 --> 00:03:36,382 and how he made some adjustments and changes in his method 60 00:03:36,966 --> 00:03:39,636 in an effort to make him into a zombie 61 00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:41,888 that would actually live. 62 00:03:42,722 --> 00:03:45,600 [Dr. Dietz] Dahmer drilled a hole in his skull, 63 00:03:45,683 --> 00:03:47,769 injected muriatic acid 64 00:03:47,852 --> 00:03:51,606 and was waiting to see if he'd succeeded this time, 65 00:03:51,689 --> 00:03:54,776 because the others died from that injection. 66 00:03:56,361 --> 00:03:58,780 [Dr. Smail] How far you think you penetrated with the drill? 67 00:03:58,863 --> 00:04:01,592 - [Jeffrey] All the way to the brain. - [Dr. Smail] Two or three inches? 68 00:04:01,616 --> 00:04:03,886 - [Jeffrey] Yeah. - [Dr. Smail] And you went straight down? 69 00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:06,246 - [Jeffrey] Right. Mm-mm. - [Wendy] Nothing came out? 70 00:04:06,746 --> 00:04:10,333 - [Dr. Smail] No fluid of any kind? - [Jeffrey] No fluid that I could see. 71 00:04:10,416 --> 00:04:12,418 And no bleeding either. 72 00:04:13,628 --> 00:04:17,298 [Wendy] Konerak actually was able to function to a limited degree. 73 00:04:18,675 --> 00:04:21,070 [Jeffrey playing from recorder] He was groggy and everything. 74 00:04:21,094 --> 00:04:23,930 He wasn't dead or anything, and he talked. 75 00:04:24,472 --> 00:04:26,975 I thought maybe I'd be able to keep him that way. 76 00:04:27,684 --> 00:04:31,145 Jeff would just tell him what he wanted him to do, and it worked. 77 00:04:32,146 --> 00:04:34,899 What Jeff didn't take into consideration was the fact 78 00:04:34,983 --> 00:04:37,568 that he might run outside of the apartment. 79 00:04:42,532 --> 00:04:45,827 Dahmer went out to get liquor. He often did while doing these crimes. 80 00:04:46,786 --> 00:04:50,873 In this particular case, he left to get some beer at a nearby bar. 81 00:04:53,376 --> 00:04:55,545 [Anne] While Dahmer is out getting beer, 82 00:04:55,628 --> 00:04:58,715 Konerak takes the opportunity to run out of the house 83 00:04:58,798 --> 00:05:00,466 and up the alley. 84 00:05:01,217 --> 00:05:06,681 That's when a neighbor looks out her window and sees him. 85 00:05:07,265 --> 00:05:09,434 The women call the police. 86 00:05:09,517 --> 00:05:11,436 The police arrive, 87 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:14,355 and Konerak is now sitting 88 00:05:14,439 --> 00:05:17,650 with a blanket around him at the scene. 89 00:05:17,734 --> 00:05:21,446 And the officers are approaching to find out what's going on. 90 00:05:23,197 --> 00:05:25,700 [Causey] Police officers tried to question Konerak. 91 00:05:25,783 --> 00:05:29,162 Konerak can't really communicate his side of the story 92 00:05:29,245 --> 00:05:30,747 'cause he's been drugged. 93 00:05:32,165 --> 00:05:34,250 [Boyle] There was nothing that would indicate 94 00:05:34,334 --> 00:05:37,253 that there was a hole in his head that Dahmer put there. 95 00:05:37,337 --> 00:05:39,630 There was no blood flowing from it. 96 00:05:40,423 --> 00:05:43,718 And while that was going on, Dahmer came up the street. 97 00:05:43,801 --> 00:05:45,887 These young women interceded. 98 00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:48,806 They asked Konerak, "What's your name?" He couldn't talk. 99 00:05:48,890 --> 00:05:50,433 [indistinct police radio] 100 00:05:50,516 --> 00:05:53,936 That's when they got between them and said, "Stay away from him." 101 00:05:54,020 --> 00:05:57,774 Two 18-year-old Black girls protecting him from Dahmer. 102 00:05:58,316 --> 00:06:00,651 The police don't listen to those girls. 103 00:06:00,735 --> 00:06:03,029 They didn't even take their names. 104 00:06:03,112 --> 00:06:06,866 Kept telling them to be quiet. That they'd arrest them if they kept talking. 105 00:06:07,492 --> 00:06:09,911 Dahmer grabbed his arm and said, "No, he's my boyfriend," 106 00:06:09,994 --> 00:06:11,746 and started to take him back. 107 00:06:13,539 --> 00:06:15,750 [Causey] Dahmer figured that, as a white guy, 108 00:06:15,833 --> 00:06:18,920 "I could tell these officers my version of the story." 109 00:06:19,420 --> 00:06:22,924 And I have to believe he believed that because he knew that, 110 00:06:23,007 --> 00:06:25,385 "I'm white, and I could get away with this." 111 00:06:26,511 --> 00:06:29,305 [Wendy] Jeffrey always had a quick response. 112 00:06:29,389 --> 00:06:31,641 It seemed kind of natural to him 113 00:06:31,724 --> 00:06:35,978 to have that ability to manipulate and get himself out of bad situations. 114 00:06:37,021 --> 00:06:40,108 [Boyle] Now you got a naked guy out in the streets, 115 00:06:40,858 --> 00:06:42,360 making noises. 116 00:06:42,443 --> 00:06:45,029 The police thought he was drunker than a billy goat. 117 00:06:45,113 --> 00:06:47,907 So what did they do? They don't just leave him. 118 00:06:47,990 --> 00:06:50,576 They take him into a place of safety, 119 00:06:50,660 --> 00:06:52,829 the apartment from whence he came. 120 00:06:54,539 --> 00:06:56,582 So they go into the apartment. 121 00:06:56,666 --> 00:07:00,378 Konerak sat on the couch as if this was his place. 122 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,881 Konerak's clothes are all in a little pile, 123 00:07:03,965 --> 00:07:07,218 neatly laid out somewhere in the living room. 124 00:07:08,428 --> 00:07:12,390 [Causey] Dahmer shows the officers photographs that he took of this young man 125 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:15,435 and said that was... You know, that was his lover. 126 00:07:16,227 --> 00:07:20,398 [Boyle] They say, "We're not gonna arrest these two guys for being gay." 127 00:07:20,481 --> 00:07:21,607 "Ain't gonna happen." 128 00:07:22,233 --> 00:07:26,612 [Dr. Dietz] And they left Sinthasomphone on the couch at Dahmer's home 129 00:07:26,696 --> 00:07:28,573 and never looked in the bedroom. 130 00:07:30,491 --> 00:07:33,578 [Anne] Little do those officers know that in Dahmer's bedroom, 131 00:07:34,203 --> 00:07:36,205 Tony Hughes's dead body 132 00:07:36,289 --> 00:07:38,958 is on the bed just laying there. 133 00:07:42,170 --> 00:07:45,089 The police left, and shortly thereafter 134 00:07:45,173 --> 00:07:47,467 Dahmer injected more of this acid 135 00:07:47,550 --> 00:07:50,344 into the brain of Konerak Sinthasomphone. 136 00:07:56,767 --> 00:07:58,287 [Wendy from recorder] What you put in? 137 00:07:58,352 --> 00:08:01,355 [Jeffrey] Konerak, I filled a syringe with muriatic acid. 138 00:08:02,565 --> 00:08:05,693 I used the acid again in a lesser dosage, 139 00:08:06,903 --> 00:08:10,740 but it was still too much the second time after I injected the second amount in. 140 00:08:10,823 --> 00:08:14,410 [ominous music playing] 141 00:08:15,912 --> 00:08:19,624 [Crocker Stephenson] One of the girls who tried to protect Konerak 142 00:08:19,707 --> 00:08:22,168 went home and told her mother, Glenda Cleveland. 143 00:08:22,251 --> 00:08:23,836 [tape rolling] 144 00:08:26,756 --> 00:08:27,798 [dial tone rings] 145 00:08:27,882 --> 00:08:30,426 - [cop] Milwaukee Police. - [Glenda] Yes, uh... 146 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:33,012 Uh, there was a squad car, number 50, 147 00:08:33,095 --> 00:08:36,891 that was flagged down earlier this evening, about 15 minutes ago. 148 00:08:36,974 --> 00:08:38,702 - [cop] That was me. - [Glenda] What happened? 149 00:08:38,726 --> 00:08:41,812 I mean, my daughter and my niece, uh, 150 00:08:41,896 --> 00:08:44,649 witnessed what was going on. Was anything done about the situation? 151 00:08:44,732 --> 00:08:48,819 [cop] Nope. It's an intoxicated, uh, boyfriend 152 00:08:48,903 --> 00:08:50,530 of another boyfriend. 153 00:08:51,322 --> 00:08:52,782 [Glenda] How old was this child? 154 00:08:52,865 --> 00:08:56,118 - [cop] It wasn't a child. It was an adult. - [Glenda] Are you sure? 155 00:08:57,036 --> 00:09:00,122 [cop] Ma'am, I can't make it any more clear. It's all taken care of. 156 00:09:00,206 --> 00:09:02,208 [ominous music playing] 157 00:09:04,418 --> 00:09:06,128 Sinthasomphone died. 158 00:09:08,089 --> 00:09:11,092 He died within an hour after the police left the apartment. 159 00:09:13,261 --> 00:09:15,096 Konerak Sinthasomphone 160 00:09:15,179 --> 00:09:20,518 was 14 years old and was one of the youngest of Dahmer's victims. 161 00:09:22,812 --> 00:09:26,482 [Boyle] If they thought for a moment that he was at risk, 162 00:09:27,275 --> 00:09:30,194 they would never have let him go back with Dahmer, ever. 163 00:09:30,278 --> 00:09:33,906 The police officers had been told to be respectful 164 00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:36,117 of the gay community in Milwaukee. 165 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,704 And I think they probably were thinking they were being respectful, 166 00:09:40,329 --> 00:09:43,833 and not bringing a heterosexual bias 167 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:45,418 to the situation. 168 00:09:46,752 --> 00:09:49,547 [Ross] Whatever the police did, 169 00:09:50,131 --> 00:09:51,591 obviously, it wasn't enough. 170 00:09:52,675 --> 00:09:55,052 [Causey] You have a number of African Americans 171 00:09:55,136 --> 00:09:58,681 basically saying that this young man is underage, 172 00:09:58,764 --> 00:10:02,977 that he didn't appear to be in his right state of mind. 173 00:10:03,060 --> 00:10:06,689 People say they were doing their jobs, just doing the best they could. 174 00:10:06,772 --> 00:10:11,277 That falls very far short of what they should have done. 175 00:10:12,278 --> 00:10:15,656 If they'd run his name, they'd have found he was on probation 176 00:10:15,740 --> 00:10:18,576 for assaulting a Laotian boy, 177 00:10:20,286 --> 00:10:22,830 who would turn out to be Konerak's brother. 178 00:10:23,414 --> 00:10:25,833 How... How does this happen? 179 00:10:27,668 --> 00:10:30,046 [reporter] Twice victimized by Jeffrey Dahmer, 180 00:10:30,129 --> 00:10:34,258 one of Konerak's brothers had been molested by Dahmer three years ago. 181 00:10:35,426 --> 00:10:37,887 The family came to America 11 years ago 182 00:10:37,970 --> 00:10:39,680 with dreams of a better life. 183 00:10:39,764 --> 00:10:43,351 Instead, Jeffrey Dahmer has given them a grisly nightmare. 184 00:10:45,853 --> 00:10:48,814 He said, "It... It seems almost more than coincidence." 185 00:10:49,899 --> 00:10:51,984 However, it was something 186 00:10:52,068 --> 00:10:55,613 that really shocked Jeff when he heard that. 187 00:10:56,906 --> 00:10:58,783 He just was... was floored by it. 188 00:11:00,368 --> 00:11:03,371 [Jeffrey from recorder] The Eurasians, it's just amazing they were brothers. 189 00:11:03,454 --> 00:11:04,455 It's... It's incredible. 190 00:11:06,165 --> 00:11:07,375 I can't believe it. 191 00:11:10,670 --> 00:11:13,110 - [Wendy] Are you saying it's his brother? - [Jeffrey] Mm-hmm. 192 00:11:16,717 --> 00:11:18,797 - [Wendy] You know what his name was? - [Jeffrey] No. 193 00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:20,805 Sure don't. 194 00:11:23,182 --> 00:11:26,310 It's a horrible tragedy for the Sinthasomphone family. 195 00:11:26,394 --> 00:11:28,104 A sexual assault victim 196 00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:33,150 and a separate murder victim in the same family. 197 00:11:33,734 --> 00:11:36,946 It's hard to fathom what that family had to go through 198 00:11:37,029 --> 00:11:38,948 at the hands of Jeffrey Dahmer. 199 00:11:42,368 --> 00:11:43,869 [tape rolling] 200 00:11:48,708 --> 00:11:52,503 [Anne] After Dahmer was arrested in July of '91, 201 00:11:52,586 --> 00:11:55,506 the community was in an uproar when they found out 202 00:11:55,589 --> 00:11:58,634 that the police had released Konerak back to Dahmer. 203 00:11:58,718 --> 00:11:59,969 [phone ringing] 204 00:12:00,511 --> 00:12:03,097 [Crocker] Glenda Cleveland called the police station 205 00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:06,100 again and again over the next week or so. 206 00:12:06,684 --> 00:12:09,937 She said, "My daughter saw this boy naked," 207 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:13,858 just believing that he had been sexually assaulted. 208 00:12:16,026 --> 00:12:19,363 I was a young reporter at the Sentinel when the Dahmer case broke. 209 00:12:19,447 --> 00:12:23,159 Somebody wanted to talk about Dahmer, and I said, "I can talk to you." 210 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,412 The person on the phone was Glenda Cleveland. 211 00:12:26,495 --> 00:12:30,624 She tells me this story that they had tried to protect this boy, 212 00:12:30,708 --> 00:12:32,460 and the police wouldn't listen to them. 213 00:12:32,543 --> 00:12:35,337 I called a captain at the police station. 214 00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:39,091 I was expecting him to just deny it, but they didn't. 215 00:12:39,175 --> 00:12:41,761 They said, "Yes, this matter's under investigation." 216 00:12:41,844 --> 00:12:44,555 How could the police give that boy back to that man? 217 00:12:44,638 --> 00:12:48,058 [Walter Farrell] They handed that minority male back to Dahmer, 218 00:12:48,142 --> 00:12:51,562 but they took the word of the white male over five Black witnesses. 219 00:12:51,645 --> 00:12:54,690 I have concluded that the officers failed 220 00:12:54,774 --> 00:12:59,528 to properly perform their duties as required by the rules and regulations 221 00:12:59,612 --> 00:13:01,697 of the Milwaukee Police Department. 222 00:13:02,198 --> 00:13:06,243 [Anne] The two police officers, John Balcerzak and Joe Gabrish, 223 00:13:06,327 --> 00:13:09,455 were fired from the Milwaukee Police Department. 224 00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:14,919 [Causey] It was turmoil in the police department. The city was torn. 225 00:13:15,836 --> 00:13:17,755 Some people supported the officers. 226 00:13:17,838 --> 00:13:21,217 We are behind our police officers 100%. 227 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:22,927 [clapping] 228 00:13:23,469 --> 00:13:25,614 [reporter] Much of the white community is not convinced 229 00:13:25,638 --> 00:13:28,098 that racism is a problem in the police department. 230 00:13:28,182 --> 00:13:31,685 They are rallying behind the police, even as the charges grow louder. 231 00:13:31,769 --> 00:13:35,481 I personally feel that there is equal and fair treatment done 232 00:13:35,564 --> 00:13:38,484 throughout the community by our officers. They're trained that way. 233 00:13:38,567 --> 00:13:41,695 I don't think that the officers 234 00:13:41,779 --> 00:13:45,115 made a decision based upon any race, 235 00:13:45,199 --> 00:13:46,742 any homophobia. 236 00:13:46,826 --> 00:13:50,246 Obviously in retrospect, the officers made a mistake, 237 00:13:50,329 --> 00:13:53,165 but there was a lot of people that Dahmer had conned. 238 00:13:53,249 --> 00:13:55,543 And he conned those officers that night. 239 00:13:55,626 --> 00:13:58,462 And I'm sure those officers 240 00:13:58,546 --> 00:14:01,090 have second-guessed that many times. 241 00:14:04,134 --> 00:14:08,055 [Anne] People have pointed to the radio transmission by the officers 242 00:14:08,681 --> 00:14:11,267 right after the contact. 243 00:14:12,101 --> 00:14:14,353 [cop] The intoxicated Asian naked male... 244 00:14:14,436 --> 00:14:16,021 [cops laughing] 245 00:14:16,105 --> 00:14:20,276 [cop] ...was returned to his sober boyfriend. 246 00:14:20,359 --> 00:14:24,071 It'll be a minute. My partner's gonna get deloused at the station. 247 00:14:24,154 --> 00:14:26,240 You hear officers laughing in the background. 248 00:14:26,323 --> 00:14:28,951 I think that what they did was a travesty. 249 00:14:29,827 --> 00:14:36,000 [Causey] That gets back to the root of how we view homosexuality. 250 00:14:36,083 --> 00:14:38,878 Gay people were made fun of. They were the butt of the joke. 251 00:14:40,296 --> 00:14:43,048 [Anne] But then the two police officers 252 00:14:43,132 --> 00:14:46,343 went to circuit court to appeal their firing. 253 00:14:46,427 --> 00:14:48,262 The court agreed with them, 254 00:14:48,929 --> 00:14:51,307 reinstated them with back pay. 255 00:14:53,142 --> 00:14:55,227 [Fleming] The Konerak Sinthasomphone case 256 00:14:55,311 --> 00:14:57,479 shed a spotlight on Milwaukee. 257 00:14:58,272 --> 00:15:01,817 This was telling them a lot about their community. 258 00:15:01,901 --> 00:15:05,195 It was telling them a lot about the police protection 259 00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:06,655 that they were offered. 260 00:15:07,323 --> 00:15:09,199 This was a very scary episode. 261 00:15:12,077 --> 00:15:13,537 [tape rolling] 262 00:15:14,371 --> 00:15:15,956 [suspenseful music playing] 263 00:15:21,378 --> 00:15:25,341 After Mr. Dahmer killed, uh, this young Laotian lad, 264 00:15:26,342 --> 00:15:28,719 bodies were piling up in his apartment. 265 00:15:30,804 --> 00:15:34,058 [Anne] Dahmer went on to kill four more people. 266 00:15:35,017 --> 00:15:37,978 [Crocker] At first, it was nine years between his homicides. 267 00:15:38,062 --> 00:15:41,273 Then it was months. After Konerak, it was weeks. 268 00:15:43,108 --> 00:15:45,428 [Jeffrey from recorder] An hour before I had to go to work, 269 00:15:45,486 --> 00:15:48,489 I was trying to decide whether to strangle him then, 270 00:15:48,572 --> 00:15:51,033 or keep him alive during the night. 271 00:15:51,825 --> 00:15:54,620 And I chose the latter and missed work. 272 00:15:55,996 --> 00:15:58,999 And was fired that Sunday. 273 00:15:59,083 --> 00:16:01,043 And that was the domino. 274 00:16:01,126 --> 00:16:04,546 The first domino that started the whole chain reaction falling. 275 00:16:08,884 --> 00:16:11,178 [Vernell Bass] He had started drinking more 276 00:16:11,261 --> 00:16:13,597 and spiraling down. 277 00:16:15,808 --> 00:16:18,852 I noticed that I wasn't seeing him 278 00:16:19,853 --> 00:16:22,356 as often as before he lost his job. 279 00:16:24,316 --> 00:16:29,029 And I would actually go to knock on his door to check on him. 280 00:16:29,613 --> 00:16:33,784 And I would notice the peephole would go dark. 281 00:16:35,452 --> 00:16:36,829 Then it'd go back light. 282 00:16:37,329 --> 00:16:39,498 And I knew that he came to the door, 283 00:16:39,581 --> 00:16:40,833 and that he saw me. 284 00:16:40,916 --> 00:16:43,919 He knew that it was me knocking on the door, 285 00:16:44,712 --> 00:16:46,588 and he didn't open the door for me. 286 00:16:47,089 --> 00:16:49,925 So I... I took it upon myself 287 00:16:50,009 --> 00:16:52,970 to think that he wanted me to go away, 288 00:16:53,804 --> 00:16:54,972 which I did. 289 00:16:57,766 --> 00:17:01,353 [Wendy] A couple of the doctors said, "Yes, he was definitely an alcoholic." 290 00:17:02,354 --> 00:17:04,064 He had an addictive personality. 291 00:17:04,940 --> 00:17:08,485 I think he had the same addiction to the killing. 292 00:17:08,569 --> 00:17:11,447 As it grew and grew and grew, 293 00:17:11,530 --> 00:17:14,158 he needed it more and more and more. 294 00:17:14,241 --> 00:17:16,118 He reached a point of time 295 00:17:16,201 --> 00:17:19,663 where he was consistently having to go out 296 00:17:19,747 --> 00:17:23,459 and deal with yet another individual, 297 00:17:23,542 --> 00:17:26,837 and not disposing of the other ones he'd already killed. 298 00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:31,109 [Jeffrey plays from recorder] When I was dismembering him in the tub, 299 00:17:31,133 --> 00:17:33,343 I didn't finish the job in one night. 300 00:17:34,553 --> 00:17:37,347 I was in too much of a rush to get it done. 301 00:17:41,977 --> 00:17:46,231 [Boyle] He was getting so overwhelmed with what he was doing 302 00:17:46,315 --> 00:17:49,485 that he had no more control of the scene. 303 00:17:50,819 --> 00:17:54,198 [Wendy] He was showering with two people in the bottom of the tub. 304 00:17:54,698 --> 00:17:58,452 I asked him, "Why didn't you get rid of the bodies before you went after another?" 305 00:17:58,535 --> 00:18:01,205 He said, "I couldn't help it. I needed the excitement of it." 306 00:18:02,831 --> 00:18:05,125 It was important that I was nonjudgmental, 307 00:18:05,709 --> 00:18:09,046 and that I didn't put him into a position 308 00:18:09,129 --> 00:18:10,964 that would stop him from talking. 309 00:18:11,924 --> 00:18:16,470 But hearing the graphic detail from Jeffrey Dahmer 310 00:18:16,553 --> 00:18:19,056 was a challenge. 311 00:18:20,766 --> 00:18:23,206 - [from recorder] Did it excite you? - [Jeffrey] Yeah, it did. 312 00:18:24,019 --> 00:18:26,396 Yeah, just to see the inside. 313 00:18:27,773 --> 00:18:29,983 [Wendy] It grew through time 314 00:18:30,067 --> 00:18:32,945 where it wasn't just having sex with a corpse, 315 00:18:33,654 --> 00:18:36,865 but it was opening the viscera of the body 316 00:18:36,949 --> 00:18:40,244 and... and, uh, having sex right there 317 00:18:40,327 --> 00:18:42,830 with the insides of the person. 318 00:18:44,498 --> 00:18:46,500 There were times where it was 319 00:18:46,583 --> 00:18:49,920 very, very difficult to listen to, 320 00:18:50,504 --> 00:18:54,758 and to pretend like, you know, uh, this isn't affecting me. 321 00:18:56,093 --> 00:18:58,929 [Jeffrey plays from recorder] I almost got in trouble because 322 00:19:00,639 --> 00:19:03,267 that smell apparently alerted neighbors. 323 00:19:07,729 --> 00:19:10,983 [Bass] One night, I was sleeping, 324 00:19:11,066 --> 00:19:15,028 and this horrible smell woke me up about 2:30 in the morning. 325 00:19:16,071 --> 00:19:17,531 And I opened the door, 326 00:19:17,614 --> 00:19:20,784 and I could see a mist. 327 00:19:22,202 --> 00:19:26,165 You ever watch a movie, a scary movie where you're in the graveyard, 328 00:19:26,248 --> 00:19:30,252 and they got the, you know, coming up? That's what I saw. 329 00:19:31,378 --> 00:19:32,504 I closed the door, 330 00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:36,341 I took a towel, and I covered the bottom of the door. 331 00:19:36,425 --> 00:19:37,926 So then I went back to bed. 332 00:19:39,761 --> 00:19:43,807 And when I woke up, I told my wife Pam about the smell, 333 00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:48,312 and she said, "I'm gonna find out today where it's coming from." 334 00:19:50,230 --> 00:19:51,565 Later, she said, 335 00:19:51,648 --> 00:19:53,275 "I sniffed the door hinges." 336 00:19:53,358 --> 00:19:55,777 "And the smell's coming from Jeff's apartment." 337 00:19:57,321 --> 00:20:03,202 She took a lawn chair, and she sat in our apartment with our door open, 338 00:20:03,285 --> 00:20:05,287 waiting for Jeff to come home. 339 00:20:05,871 --> 00:20:09,291 When he came home, she confronted him about the smell. 340 00:20:09,374 --> 00:20:12,836 And he said that his freezer had quit working, 341 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,964 and the meat spoiled in his freezer. 342 00:20:17,257 --> 00:20:18,634 And so I asked him, 343 00:20:18,717 --> 00:20:22,095 "Don't you got a warranty on that thing? How long have you had it?" 344 00:20:23,388 --> 00:20:25,468 [Wendy from recorder] Did they ever come and inquire? 345 00:20:26,058 --> 00:20:28,352 - [Jeffrey] Yeah, they did. - [Wendy] What happened? 346 00:20:28,435 --> 00:20:31,063 [Jeffrey] I told them the freezer went on the blink. 347 00:20:35,943 --> 00:20:39,905 [Dr. Dietz] He used a variety of means to keep what he could 348 00:20:40,906 --> 00:20:43,158 of the men he found attractive. 349 00:20:43,242 --> 00:20:46,536 And that included taking photographs of them 350 00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:48,956 when they were unconscious or dead, 351 00:20:49,456 --> 00:20:52,834 removing parts of them that he would preserve. 352 00:20:52,918 --> 00:20:56,546 And it included eventually 353 00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:58,924 some cannibalization. 354 00:21:00,342 --> 00:21:02,779 [Wendy from recorder] Did you select what you decided to keep? 355 00:21:02,803 --> 00:21:04,054 How did you select that? 356 00:21:05,597 --> 00:21:07,849 [Jeffrey] Just the meatiest-looking parts. 357 00:21:07,933 --> 00:21:10,644 The parts with the least amount of fat. 358 00:21:11,603 --> 00:21:14,856 - [Wendy] So the biceps, thighs, calves? - [Jeffrey] Right. Mm-hmm. 359 00:21:17,109 --> 00:21:21,321 [man] The eating of victims is part of the very disturbed thinking that developed 360 00:21:21,405 --> 00:21:25,659 once Mr. Dahmer gave up on the idea that he could fight the urge to kill. 361 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,039 There were various body parts he'd thought about eating, 362 00:21:31,123 --> 00:21:32,708 including a human heart. 363 00:21:34,167 --> 00:21:36,712 [Wendy from recorder] So you took out the heart and the liver, 364 00:21:36,795 --> 00:21:39,214 and you preserved that and his thigh. 365 00:21:39,298 --> 00:21:41,091 What did you do with the rest of it then? 366 00:21:41,174 --> 00:21:44,344 [Jeffrey] I kept about 50 pounds. The rest went in the trash. 367 00:21:44,428 --> 00:21:47,389 [Wendy] How many pounds would you estimate you've eaten? 368 00:21:47,472 --> 00:21:48,932 Total, about... 369 00:21:50,183 --> 00:21:51,183 ten. 370 00:21:52,352 --> 00:21:54,855 At one point, he drank human blood, again, 371 00:21:54,938 --> 00:21:58,817 somehow thinking in his disturbed way that this was gonna connect him 372 00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:01,486 with the blood of the people that he was consuming. 373 00:22:01,987 --> 00:22:05,407 His thinking was, "Somehow, if I ingest these souls, 374 00:22:05,490 --> 00:22:07,659 they will still live on through me." 375 00:22:09,036 --> 00:22:12,456 [Wendy from recorder] If anybody looked it looked like you just stocked up. 376 00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:15,375 [Jeffrey] So it looked just like supermarket meat. 377 00:22:16,251 --> 00:22:17,753 I froze it for a while. 378 00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:19,212 Maybe a month. 379 00:22:19,296 --> 00:22:21,298 Or not that long. A couple weeks. 380 00:22:22,883 --> 00:22:25,135 Oh my God. I had no idea 381 00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:29,181 that this is what was occurring right across the hall 382 00:22:29,264 --> 00:22:30,724 from where we lived. 383 00:22:31,892 --> 00:22:35,020 Everyone in the building felt suckered. 384 00:22:36,438 --> 00:22:40,567 We all felt that Jeffrey Dahmer had played us. 385 00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:43,570 It's really hard 386 00:22:44,321 --> 00:22:46,490 to become fond of someone 387 00:22:47,282 --> 00:22:53,246 to find out that actually that person had a dagger in your back. 388 00:22:54,164 --> 00:22:56,375 I thought this guy was my friend. 389 00:23:01,088 --> 00:23:05,133 [reporter 1] People who live in the building are in a state of shock tonight. 390 00:23:05,217 --> 00:23:06,802 They simply cannot believe 391 00:23:06,885 --> 00:23:10,639 that a crime of this magnitude was going on right next door. 392 00:23:11,223 --> 00:23:14,351 [reporter 2] The race question in the Jeffrey Dahmer story was raised today, 393 00:23:14,434 --> 00:23:16,353 since most of the murder victims were Black, 394 00:23:16,436 --> 00:23:19,147 and since it happened in a largely Black neighborhood. 395 00:23:19,231 --> 00:23:22,526 The racism is the key because the consistent thing, 396 00:23:22,609 --> 00:23:25,445 above the sex with the corpse, above the number, 397 00:23:25,529 --> 00:23:26,947 is the consistency 398 00:23:27,030 --> 00:23:29,366 that these were Black young men. 399 00:23:30,242 --> 00:23:33,578 Dahmer said his ideal victim was a young, athletic Black male, 400 00:23:34,704 --> 00:23:37,416 but his first two victims were white. 401 00:23:37,499 --> 00:23:40,710 He had Hispanic victims. He had Asian victims. 402 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:45,298 He was attracted to people of color. This wasn't some hate crime. 403 00:23:45,382 --> 00:23:48,093 He was trying to become involved intimately 404 00:23:48,176 --> 00:23:50,846 with the sort of person towards whom he was attracted. 405 00:23:52,681 --> 00:23:55,142 [Causey] I don't know what was in Dahmer's mind. 406 00:23:56,935 --> 00:23:59,187 Was he a racist? Who cares? 407 00:23:59,271 --> 00:24:00,772 He killed Black people. 408 00:24:00,856 --> 00:24:02,607 He killed people of color. 409 00:24:02,691 --> 00:24:04,067 He killed gay people. 410 00:24:05,277 --> 00:24:08,238 In my opinion, what matters is that he took the lives 411 00:24:08,321 --> 00:24:11,867 of a lot of people that should still be alive today. 412 00:24:14,453 --> 00:24:15,662 [tape rolling] 413 00:24:23,587 --> 00:24:27,382 With today's technology, the trial will be beamed through outer space 414 00:24:27,466 --> 00:24:29,926 to other countries in a matter of seconds. 415 00:24:30,010 --> 00:24:32,929 The line people in England have used is that Jeffrey Dahmer 416 00:24:33,013 --> 00:24:36,308 has made sure that Milwaukee's not just gonna be famous for beer. 417 00:24:36,391 --> 00:24:38,685 It's now gonna be famous for serial killers. 418 00:24:40,270 --> 00:24:44,191 [Jeff Fleming] Dahmer confessed to killing 17 people altogether. 419 00:24:46,067 --> 00:24:48,111 Dahmer entered a plea of guilty. 420 00:24:48,195 --> 00:24:52,199 The only issue now was whether he was sane or insane. 421 00:24:52,282 --> 00:24:55,410 Dahmer's plea was, "Yes, I did the murders, but I'm insane." 422 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:58,788 [Fleming] The trial was a big event. 423 00:24:58,872 --> 00:25:02,584 It had drawn a lot of reporters. Family members were there. 424 00:25:04,753 --> 00:25:08,048 It was now, you know, the big show. 425 00:25:09,424 --> 00:25:13,553 Michael McCann was the DA at the time that conducted the trial for the state. 426 00:25:18,058 --> 00:25:20,560 [Mccann] Gerry Boyle was Dahmer's defense attorney, 427 00:25:20,644 --> 00:25:23,271 and a powerhouse in delivering an argument to a jury. 428 00:25:23,355 --> 00:25:25,357 And I knew he'd be a tough guy. 429 00:25:26,566 --> 00:25:30,153 [Anne] I can still remember what it was like to sit with the other media 430 00:25:30,237 --> 00:25:31,597 at the Milwaukee County Courthouse 431 00:25:31,655 --> 00:25:35,283 when we were waiting for Dahmer's initial appearance in court. 432 00:25:36,326 --> 00:25:40,872 This was going to be the first time that we were going to see him in person. 433 00:25:43,083 --> 00:25:46,628 We were expecting like, you know, maybe Charles Manson, 434 00:25:47,337 --> 00:25:49,714 but Dahmer was a good-looking man. 435 00:25:51,049 --> 00:25:52,509 He was subdued. 436 00:25:53,301 --> 00:25:57,264 He... didn't look like a serial killer. 437 00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:02,310 [Meuler] I think there was the hope from Dahmer's father 438 00:26:02,394 --> 00:26:05,522 that there's some understanding that he did this 439 00:26:05,605 --> 00:26:07,941 because of a mental disease. 440 00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:12,696 [Wendy] Lionel was hoping that the court could give Jeffrey the help he needed. 441 00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:14,739 [clerk] Everyone please rise. 442 00:26:14,823 --> 00:26:16,199 [gavel bangs] 443 00:26:17,284 --> 00:26:21,246 Hear ye, Circuit court branch 33 in Milwaukee County's now in session, 444 00:26:21,329 --> 00:26:23,748 the Honorable Laurence C. Gram here presiding. 445 00:26:24,291 --> 00:26:27,419 [Mccann] The burden to show the insanity was on the defense. 446 00:26:28,670 --> 00:26:31,089 In an insanity plea, the defense presents first. 447 00:26:31,172 --> 00:26:33,675 Very different from the typical burden of proof. 448 00:26:34,551 --> 00:26:36,928 I accept the responsibility 449 00:26:37,012 --> 00:26:38,388 of proving to you 450 00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:41,641 that this was not an evil man. 451 00:26:41,725 --> 00:26:44,144 This was a sick man. 452 00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:48,523 My duty and my goal were to prove 453 00:26:48,607 --> 00:26:52,777 that he was insane during the commission of these offenses. 454 00:26:52,861 --> 00:26:56,781 That when he killed somebody, he was suffering from mental illness. 455 00:26:57,324 --> 00:27:00,410 And this is what I see about this Jeffrey Dahmer 456 00:27:01,244 --> 00:27:02,996 as a total human being. 457 00:27:03,538 --> 00:27:06,875 A person who's into fantasy, drugging, 458 00:27:06,958 --> 00:27:09,294 keeping skulls in locker, cannibalism, 459 00:27:09,377 --> 00:27:12,172 sexual urges, drilling, making zombies, necrophilia. 460 00:27:13,048 --> 00:27:16,009 [Fleming] Of course, by an average person's view 461 00:27:16,509 --> 00:27:19,679 he was insane. He was a cannibal. He was a serial killer. 462 00:27:20,180 --> 00:27:23,433 But by the criminal standard of insanity, 463 00:27:24,476 --> 00:27:25,935 was he insane? 464 00:27:26,019 --> 00:27:29,689 Did he meet the legal definition? That was an open question. 465 00:27:29,773 --> 00:27:33,610 Before a person can be found insane under the law, 466 00:27:34,736 --> 00:27:38,114 he must suffer from a mental illness or defect, 467 00:27:38,198 --> 00:27:41,826 and they lack substantial capacity 468 00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:45,121 to understand the difference between right and wrong. 469 00:27:45,205 --> 00:27:49,292 Or they're unable to control their conduct 470 00:27:49,376 --> 00:27:51,252 to the requirements of the law. 471 00:27:52,212 --> 00:27:57,133 I went to Chicago, and I got Dr. Wahlstrom and was able to bring him in on the case. 472 00:27:57,217 --> 00:28:00,428 The defendant's personality structure, 473 00:28:00,512 --> 00:28:03,723 his underlying way of looking at the world and himself, 474 00:28:03,807 --> 00:28:06,059 is diagnosed and meets the criteria 475 00:28:06,142 --> 00:28:08,853 for schizotypal and borderline personality disorders. 476 00:28:08,937 --> 00:28:10,217 [Boyle] Tell us what that means. 477 00:28:10,939 --> 00:28:15,235 They have frantic attempts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. 478 00:28:15,318 --> 00:28:16,945 And in this case, 479 00:28:17,028 --> 00:28:20,782 it's the most extreme example of those kind of frantic attempts. 480 00:28:21,366 --> 00:28:24,202 [Wendy] Dahmer didn't want people to leave him, 481 00:28:24,285 --> 00:28:25,704 but to stay with him. 482 00:28:25,787 --> 00:28:29,624 That feeling of abandonment, I think a part of that goes to 483 00:28:29,708 --> 00:28:33,378 why he kept the body parts of his victims. 484 00:28:33,962 --> 00:28:36,297 He saved the bones. He saved the skulls. 485 00:28:37,048 --> 00:28:39,134 He saved the hands. 486 00:28:39,718 --> 00:28:43,471 Jeff indicated that it... it was for a shrine. 487 00:28:45,682 --> 00:28:47,892 [Jeffrey plays from recorder] I have this pedestal. 488 00:28:47,976 --> 00:28:50,270 This black pedestal. 489 00:28:50,854 --> 00:28:55,859 And I had a, uh, black, round top on top of it, 490 00:28:55,942 --> 00:28:59,404 and I had the skulls set up on top of that, around it. 491 00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:04,951 It was just, uh, a remembrance of, uh... 492 00:29:06,536 --> 00:29:09,289 the people. A keepsake of each one of them. 493 00:29:11,458 --> 00:29:15,086 It was my own, yeah, private little world. Yeah. 494 00:29:17,338 --> 00:29:19,048 I had complete control. 495 00:29:21,968 --> 00:29:25,096 That's about the ultimate control you can have. 496 00:29:30,685 --> 00:29:33,271 [Wendy] This is, in fact, 497 00:29:33,354 --> 00:29:35,273 the picture of what he drew. 498 00:29:38,902 --> 00:29:41,154 And as you see here, 499 00:29:41,237 --> 00:29:43,198 he signed it below. 500 00:29:44,491 --> 00:29:46,618 [from recorder] Did you feel by keeping the skulls, 501 00:29:46,701 --> 00:29:50,205 and if you would've actually accomplished this shrine, 502 00:29:50,288 --> 00:29:52,874 that you would've felt less lonely, 503 00:29:52,957 --> 00:29:55,335 like you were being kept company, that they were there? 504 00:29:55,418 --> 00:30:00,173 [Jeffrey] I think that must have, yeah, been, uh, my thinking. 505 00:30:02,383 --> 00:30:06,471 [Wendy] Jeffrey's building the shrine was all about power and control for him. 506 00:30:06,554 --> 00:30:10,600 And that each trait that he liked out of each one of them 507 00:30:10,683 --> 00:30:14,020 was something that was now internalized into his own life. 508 00:30:14,103 --> 00:30:18,066 That was a bizarre delusion that he thought that he could take 509 00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:22,654 the skulls and the bones of victims 510 00:30:23,738 --> 00:30:26,407 and create a power center 511 00:30:26,491 --> 00:30:29,744 in which he would be able to get special powers. 512 00:30:29,828 --> 00:30:32,580 We're trying to win an insanity defense. 513 00:30:32,664 --> 00:30:34,582 This was where he lost control. 514 00:30:35,250 --> 00:30:37,418 We're trying to show that, you know, 515 00:30:37,502 --> 00:30:40,129 he didn't have that rational thought anymore. 516 00:30:42,465 --> 00:30:45,301 [Berlin] I believe he had a mental disease, necrophilia, 517 00:30:45,385 --> 00:30:48,972 a very rare and, uh, possibly dangerous psychiatric condition. 518 00:30:49,931 --> 00:30:53,268 This is a human being with a horrible psychiatric disorder 519 00:30:53,351 --> 00:30:56,896 who is really struggling very hard not to allow that disorder 520 00:30:56,980 --> 00:30:59,983 to bring him to the point where he's harming other people. 521 00:31:00,066 --> 00:31:01,526 Obviously, he lost that battle. 522 00:31:01,609 --> 00:31:03,069 In my professional opinion, 523 00:31:03,152 --> 00:31:06,865 Mr. Dahmer did lack substantial capacity to conform his behavior 524 00:31:06,948 --> 00:31:08,616 to the requirements of law. 525 00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:12,287 But I believe they met, at that time, the statutory requirements 526 00:31:12,370 --> 00:31:15,623 for an insanity defense. And I still believe that today. 527 00:31:16,457 --> 00:31:19,878 I was approached by the district attorney's office 528 00:31:19,961 --> 00:31:22,088 to evaluate Mr. Dahmer. 529 00:31:22,171 --> 00:31:24,299 At the time of each of the killings, 530 00:31:24,382 --> 00:31:28,303 he did have the capacity not to do the killing. 531 00:31:28,386 --> 00:31:32,265 There was no force pushing him to kill. 532 00:31:32,974 --> 00:31:35,143 There was merely a desire 533 00:31:35,226 --> 00:31:37,645 to spend more time with the victim. 534 00:31:37,729 --> 00:31:40,940 If the victim had agreed voluntarily to stay with him, 535 00:31:41,024 --> 00:31:43,109 he would not have done the killing. 536 00:31:43,192 --> 00:31:47,447 That's an indication that he could control his behavior. 537 00:31:48,615 --> 00:31:51,492 I didn't think Dahmer had a mental disease 538 00:31:51,576 --> 00:31:53,286 or mental illness. 539 00:31:53,369 --> 00:31:54,913 Did he know it was wrong? 540 00:31:55,413 --> 00:31:58,541 Well, here's how I'm sure he knew it was wrong. 541 00:31:58,625 --> 00:32:01,669 He said he knew it was wrong at that time. 542 00:32:02,503 --> 00:32:04,255 Every single one of them. 543 00:32:04,339 --> 00:32:08,217 He took steps for every single one of the charged homicides 544 00:32:08,301 --> 00:32:10,929 to make sure that he wouldn't get caught. 545 00:32:11,012 --> 00:32:14,933 They included putting in fake security cameras 546 00:32:15,016 --> 00:32:18,478 to deter people from breaking in while he was at work. 547 00:32:18,561 --> 00:32:21,356 They included disposing of evidence. 548 00:32:21,439 --> 00:32:25,443 They included pulling the curtains while he's dismembering bodies. 549 00:32:26,361 --> 00:32:29,864 The many, many steps to try to evade detection. 550 00:32:30,657 --> 00:32:32,784 And in order to kill, 551 00:32:32,867 --> 00:32:36,704 he had to overcome his inhibition against it by getting drunk. 552 00:32:38,331 --> 00:32:40,416 [Mccann] All the psychiatrists agreed basically 553 00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:43,002 that he was an alcoholic, necrophilic. 554 00:32:43,086 --> 00:32:47,006 Agreed he knew it was wrong, but disagreed he couldn't control himself. 555 00:32:48,049 --> 00:32:50,843 [Wendy] For me, the trial was very 556 00:32:50,927 --> 00:32:52,470 anxiety-provoking. 557 00:32:53,096 --> 00:32:55,014 I was sitting next to... to Jeff. 558 00:32:55,098 --> 00:32:58,101 When he did have questions, he would talk to me. 559 00:32:59,811 --> 00:33:03,564 Wendy Patrickus played a prominent role to soften Jeffrey Dahmer's image. 560 00:33:04,232 --> 00:33:06,776 Having a young woman sitting there 561 00:33:06,859 --> 00:33:09,278 made Jeffrey Dahmer look a little less threatening. 562 00:33:09,362 --> 00:33:12,115 And I think that was part of the intention to show the jury 563 00:33:12,198 --> 00:33:16,244 that Jeffrey Dahmer was not quite the monster many had made him out to be. 564 00:33:18,579 --> 00:33:21,165 [Wendy] I had issues during the course 565 00:33:21,249 --> 00:33:23,084 of representing Jeffrey Dahmer. 566 00:33:24,043 --> 00:33:27,380 I received death threats from a number of different sources. 567 00:33:30,216 --> 00:33:34,721 There was really only one time I felt like some of the threats became real. 568 00:33:35,888 --> 00:33:39,684 One of the victim's family members, when I was out one night, 569 00:33:39,767 --> 00:33:41,728 came after me with a pool cue 570 00:33:41,811 --> 00:33:43,813 because I was representing Jeff. 571 00:33:44,605 --> 00:33:47,525 I said, "You do understand that's just a job. That's a position." 572 00:33:47,608 --> 00:33:48,943 "I didn't kill your brother." 573 00:33:49,027 --> 00:33:53,489 Uh, she couldn't, or wouldn't, discern the difference between the two. 574 00:33:53,573 --> 00:33:56,451 She just, you know, came after me. 575 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,788 It did cause me to, uh, escalate my concern 576 00:34:00,872 --> 00:34:02,290 during the trial, 577 00:34:02,832 --> 00:34:05,793 and pretty much become a homebody at that point. 578 00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:14,010 Dahmer's father and stepmother came every day to the trial. 579 00:34:14,844 --> 00:34:17,346 [Crocker] And you could tell the trial got to them. 580 00:34:18,014 --> 00:34:21,225 Doctor would be on the stand quoting from his confession, 581 00:34:22,268 --> 00:34:25,563 and it was the most appalling information. 582 00:34:26,814 --> 00:34:28,858 You'd see it on his father's face. 583 00:34:30,401 --> 00:34:33,529 And there Lionel Dahmer sat with Shari, 584 00:34:33,613 --> 00:34:34,781 his second wife, 585 00:34:34,864 --> 00:34:37,825 looking behind his son, remaining behind his son. 586 00:34:41,287 --> 00:34:43,623 [Boyle] The trial went two weeks. 587 00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:46,375 He's out of control. 588 00:34:47,418 --> 00:34:50,338 He could not stop. 589 00:34:50,922 --> 00:34:53,382 He was a runaway train 590 00:34:54,509 --> 00:34:57,220 on a track of madness. 591 00:34:57,804 --> 00:35:00,056 It isn't, "Is he sane or insane?" 592 00:35:00,139 --> 00:35:04,143 It's, "Did he prove to a reasonable certainty that he was insane?" 593 00:35:04,227 --> 00:35:06,354 If he didn't, the answer is no. 594 00:35:06,437 --> 00:35:08,439 You don't have to make a finding that he was sane. 595 00:35:08,523 --> 00:35:11,192 You're not being asked to make a finding that he was sane. 596 00:35:11,275 --> 00:35:12,755 You're being asked to make a finding, 597 00:35:12,819 --> 00:35:15,905 "Did he prove to a reasonable certainty that he was insane?" 598 00:35:15,988 --> 00:35:17,490 That's the issue before you. 599 00:35:18,533 --> 00:35:22,745 After all the testimony was in, the jury went in to deliberate. 600 00:35:23,704 --> 00:35:26,582 [reporter] Is Dahmer legally not guilty because of mental disease? 601 00:35:26,666 --> 00:35:28,751 That's what the jury must sort out. 602 00:35:28,835 --> 00:35:31,838 I think juries and people in general are often concerned 603 00:35:31,921 --> 00:35:34,090 if someone's found not criminally responsible, 604 00:35:34,173 --> 00:35:36,008 and they go to a mental institution, 605 00:35:36,092 --> 00:35:38,678 that they're gonna come out and hurt people again. 606 00:35:38,761 --> 00:35:44,725 Even if you're successfully treated while you're in a mental institution, 607 00:35:44,809 --> 00:35:47,979 the court would have to sign off before you re-enter the community. 608 00:35:48,938 --> 00:35:52,692 In a case such as Mr. Dahmer's, I find it exceedingly unlikely 609 00:35:52,775 --> 00:35:55,987 that a court would've approved him going back into the community. 610 00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,198 [reporter] Few would place bets on the decision they'll reach. 611 00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:00,992 They're gonna find him insane. 612 00:36:01,075 --> 00:36:03,411 I think they're probably gonna vote that he's sane. 613 00:36:03,494 --> 00:36:05,705 [reporter] Which way do you think the jury's gonna go? 614 00:36:05,788 --> 00:36:06,789 No clue. 615 00:36:06,873 --> 00:36:09,584 It went to the jury on Friday, and it was late Saturday afternoon 616 00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:11,502 before they came back. 617 00:36:11,586 --> 00:36:15,882 They looked at all the evidence. They were very adamant in their decision. 618 00:36:15,965 --> 00:36:20,094 In a hushed courtroom in Milwaukee today, the jury rendered its decision 619 00:36:20,178 --> 00:36:23,389 in one of the most grisly and widely-followed murder trials 620 00:36:23,472 --> 00:36:24,932 in modern history. 621 00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:27,226 The verdict. Jeffrey Dahmer was sane 622 00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:29,937 when he killed and dismembered men and boys 623 00:36:30,021 --> 00:36:33,691 in a gruesome quest for companionship and sexual gratification. 624 00:36:34,525 --> 00:36:36,110 That's something that troubled me. 625 00:36:37,653 --> 00:36:41,991 If a man who is preoccupied with having sex with corpses, 626 00:36:42,074 --> 00:36:44,994 if a man who's drilling holes in the heads of human beings 627 00:36:45,077 --> 00:36:48,414 to try to keep them alive in a zombie-like state 628 00:36:49,373 --> 00:36:51,500 doesn't have a psychiatric disorder, 629 00:36:51,584 --> 00:36:54,462 then I don't know what we mean by psychiatric disease. 630 00:36:54,545 --> 00:36:56,923 How many people does someone have to eat in Milwaukee 631 00:36:57,006 --> 00:36:59,175 before they think you have a mental disease? 632 00:37:02,094 --> 00:37:04,639 [Mccann] I've been trying cases for 38 years as a DA. 633 00:37:04,722 --> 00:37:06,599 I don't find a... a celebratory feeling. 634 00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:08,851 Seventeen people died. 635 00:37:09,477 --> 00:37:11,896 Seventeen families crushed and destroyed. 636 00:37:12,396 --> 00:37:14,065 There's just no room for elation. 637 00:37:15,024 --> 00:37:17,652 But I would've been crushed if he had come back 638 00:37:17,735 --> 00:37:19,987 and found that he was insane. 639 00:37:21,489 --> 00:37:25,493 [Boyle] Dahmer had no reaction to being found sane. 640 00:37:25,576 --> 00:37:27,662 No reaction whatsoever. 641 00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:29,371 None. 642 00:37:29,956 --> 00:37:32,250 [reporter 1] Ms. Dahmer, do you have any comment? 643 00:37:32,333 --> 00:37:33,376 No. 644 00:37:33,459 --> 00:37:34,710 - [reporter 1] Mr. Dahmer? - No. 645 00:37:36,045 --> 00:37:38,273 [reporter 2] We attempted to talk to Dahmer's grandmother 646 00:37:38,297 --> 00:37:41,467 Catherine this morning, but a sign is already posted on the door 647 00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:45,054 saying she is too weak and too troubled to talk about the case. 648 00:37:45,137 --> 00:37:48,557 As far as the verdict is concerned, it wasn't really very surprising. 649 00:37:48,641 --> 00:37:53,104 But I think he had a mental disease, and he needed help. 650 00:37:53,187 --> 00:37:54,397 [tape rolling] 651 00:37:57,692 --> 00:38:00,111 [reporter 3] Families of his victims wept with relief, 652 00:38:00,194 --> 00:38:03,281 knowing that Dahmer now faces a probable prison sentence 653 00:38:03,364 --> 00:38:05,032 instead of a mental institution. 654 00:38:05,116 --> 00:38:07,785 The case against Jeffrey Dahmer comes to a close today 655 00:38:07,868 --> 00:38:11,122 when he is sentenced later this morning in a Milwaukee courtroom. 656 00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:13,374 What do you expect will happen this morning 657 00:38:13,457 --> 00:38:15,543 in terms of Dahmer's sentencing? 658 00:38:15,626 --> 00:38:17,086 We first have the family speak. 659 00:38:17,169 --> 00:38:20,881 Under our state law, each family has an opportunity to express to the court 660 00:38:20,965 --> 00:38:23,467 the impact of this offense on their family. 661 00:38:23,551 --> 00:38:26,846 I think we'll see highly charged emotional statements by the family. 662 00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:31,851 I'm the mother of Anthony Lee Sears. 663 00:38:33,853 --> 00:38:36,022 And I just wanted to know, 664 00:38:36,105 --> 00:38:40,151 you know, just why would it be my son? 665 00:38:40,776 --> 00:38:44,238 Um, I wanna thank the jury. I wanna thank you, Judge. 666 00:38:44,322 --> 00:38:47,491 And just keep this man off the street, please. [sniffles] 667 00:38:48,951 --> 00:38:54,415 I would like to say to Jeffrey Dahmer that he don't know the pain, the hurt, 668 00:38:54,498 --> 00:38:59,128 the loss, and the mental state that he had put our family in. 669 00:39:00,796 --> 00:39:04,342 I don't wanna ever see my mother have to go through this again! 670 00:39:05,134 --> 00:39:06,385 Never, Jeffrey. 671 00:39:06,886 --> 00:39:09,805 Jeffrey, I hate you, motherfucker! 672 00:39:09,889 --> 00:39:11,432 [screams] I hate you! 673 00:39:11,515 --> 00:39:13,517 Jeffrey's out of control! 674 00:39:13,601 --> 00:39:16,395 Don't fuck with me, Jeffrey! I'll kill you, goddamn it! 675 00:39:16,479 --> 00:39:18,439 Look at me, motherfucker! 676 00:39:18,522 --> 00:39:20,733 - Ah! I could kill you! - [judge] Lunch and recess. 677 00:39:20,816 --> 00:39:23,861 Fucking kill you, motherfucker! 678 00:39:25,279 --> 00:39:27,406 [Mccann] She was coming across the courtroom at him, 679 00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:29,617 intent, it appeared to me, to attack him. 680 00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:31,285 He was cool. He kept control. 681 00:39:31,369 --> 00:39:33,496 I would've thought he'd jump up. He didn't. 682 00:39:33,579 --> 00:39:37,041 He just sat there. This is Jeffrey Dahmer under stress. 683 00:39:41,962 --> 00:39:44,762 [Wendy] The judge said to Jeffrey, "Is there anything you'd like to say 684 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,759 in addressing the court before I pass judgment?" 685 00:39:46,842 --> 00:39:49,929 This has never been a case of trying to get free. 686 00:39:50,513 --> 00:39:52,473 Frankly, I wanted death for myself. 687 00:39:53,265 --> 00:39:54,725 I hated no one. 688 00:39:55,351 --> 00:39:58,020 I knew I was sick or evil, or both. 689 00:39:58,604 --> 00:40:00,106 Now I believe I was sick. 690 00:40:01,399 --> 00:40:03,526 I take all the blame for what I did. 691 00:40:03,609 --> 00:40:05,111 I hurt many people. 692 00:40:05,194 --> 00:40:08,239 I've hurt my mother and father and stepmother. 693 00:40:08,322 --> 00:40:10,241 I love them all so very much. 694 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,620 I hope that they will find the same peace I am looking for. 695 00:40:15,996 --> 00:40:20,334 [reporter 4] This left the judge to hand down the stiffest possible sentence 696 00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:22,461 in a state with no death penalty. 697 00:40:24,213 --> 00:40:27,883 Dahmer was sentenced to 15 consecutive terms of life imprisonment. 698 00:40:27,967 --> 00:40:30,594 - [cheering] - [spectator] Yes! 699 00:40:35,266 --> 00:40:38,185 [reporter 5] Finally they had something to cheer about for the first time 700 00:40:38,269 --> 00:40:41,856 since these family members learned of Jeffrey Dahmer and what he did. 701 00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:45,651 [Shirley Hughes] Life goes on. 702 00:40:45,734 --> 00:40:48,988 Maybe what I've learned through this tragedy will help someone else. 703 00:40:49,572 --> 00:40:51,866 And I just thank God for this verdict. 704 00:40:52,992 --> 00:40:57,413 Dahmer identified Steven's picture and was asked how he could be sure who it was. 705 00:40:57,496 --> 00:41:00,416 He told the police, "You always remember your first." 706 00:41:00,499 --> 00:41:03,502 I want him to know that we also remember our first. 707 00:41:03,586 --> 00:41:06,464 Not one day has passed that we've not thought about Steve. 708 00:41:07,923 --> 00:41:11,343 There's a sense of closure in the sense... Especially for the families 709 00:41:11,427 --> 00:41:14,305 that waited years to find out what had happened to their sons. 710 00:41:15,473 --> 00:41:17,349 It's a sad sense of closure, 711 00:41:17,975 --> 00:41:19,226 but it's closure. 712 00:41:20,603 --> 00:41:22,062 [uneasy music playing] 713 00:41:26,108 --> 00:41:29,570 Dahmer was sent to Columbia Correctional Facility in Wisconsin. 714 00:41:32,198 --> 00:41:34,325 [Jeffrey] I dunno what prison systems are like. 715 00:41:34,408 --> 00:41:37,411 I have a picture of a very dreary, gray place. 716 00:41:38,078 --> 00:41:40,498 I was thinking maybe that in prison, 717 00:41:40,581 --> 00:41:44,919 they'll maybe let me do something with growing some kind of a plant. 718 00:41:45,753 --> 00:41:49,840 Uh, I've always had an interest in growing plants. 719 00:41:49,924 --> 00:41:51,717 I had plants at the apartment. 720 00:41:52,927 --> 00:41:55,387 [Murphy] He was put on suicide watch, 721 00:41:55,471 --> 00:41:59,016 so he was placed in a single cell, not in the bullpen. 722 00:41:59,099 --> 00:42:01,310 [Wendy] He told me, "What do I have to look forward to?" 723 00:42:01,393 --> 00:42:04,021 I said, "You know, there's a lot of things that you can do." 724 00:42:04,104 --> 00:42:06,315 "You said you were reading the Bible." 725 00:42:06,398 --> 00:42:08,609 "And you wanted to get back into it." 726 00:42:08,692 --> 00:42:12,029 So he did make those, uh, overt actions 727 00:42:12,112 --> 00:42:16,033 to try and redeem himself in God's eyes. 728 00:42:18,619 --> 00:42:20,037 [tape rolling] 729 00:42:25,334 --> 00:42:29,880 I got a phone call in 1994 from a minister friend in Milwaukee, 730 00:42:29,964 --> 00:42:31,423 who was in Milwaukee at the time, 731 00:42:31,507 --> 00:42:33,926 saying an inmate wanted to be baptized. 732 00:42:34,426 --> 00:42:36,804 He said, "You might wanna sit down for this one." 733 00:42:36,887 --> 00:42:38,138 "His name is Jeffrey Dahmer." 734 00:42:39,682 --> 00:42:41,684 I was nervous about meeting him. 735 00:42:43,602 --> 00:42:47,815 I'd never been to a prison before. I'd never been to a murderer before. 736 00:42:49,233 --> 00:42:50,859 I was sitting there thinking, "Wow." 737 00:42:50,943 --> 00:42:54,113 "I'm in a room with a guy who's killed a lot of young men." 738 00:42:54,196 --> 00:42:56,073 And I looked at his hands. And his hands... 739 00:42:56,156 --> 00:42:58,742 I thought his hands were relatively small compared to my hands. 740 00:42:58,826 --> 00:43:00,786 With those hands, he strangled men, 741 00:43:00,869 --> 00:43:04,915 and yet here I am talking to him as if, you know, we're just normal people. 742 00:43:05,874 --> 00:43:07,793 I said, "Yes, I'll... I'll baptize you." 743 00:43:07,876 --> 00:43:10,254 That seemed to cause him a great deal of relief. 744 00:43:11,171 --> 00:43:14,216 He says, "Well, I was afraid you'd say, 'You are too evil." 745 00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:17,261 "You are too horrible, too wicked to be baptized.'" 746 00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,142 Jeff was brought in. 747 00:43:24,310 --> 00:43:26,186 I pushed his head under the water, 748 00:43:27,146 --> 00:43:30,107 and when he came up, I said, "Welcome to the family of God." 749 00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,069 On the day of his baptism, 750 00:43:34,153 --> 00:43:36,989 John Wayne Gacy was executed on that same day. 751 00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:41,827 There was a full solar eclipse as well. 752 00:43:41,910 --> 00:43:46,624 Some tried to read into that some kind of mystical, uh, meaning behind all this. 753 00:43:47,708 --> 00:43:50,836 I met him once a week from that point on for about an hour. 754 00:43:50,919 --> 00:43:53,005 It was a matter of growing in his faith, 755 00:43:53,088 --> 00:43:56,717 understanding what his faith was about, and then continue each week. 756 00:43:57,217 --> 00:43:59,637 Jeffrey Dahmer lives in that building back there. 757 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:01,764 Disciplinary Segregation Two. 758 00:44:01,847 --> 00:44:04,391 Now, he has a job, mopping and sweeping up floors, 759 00:44:04,475 --> 00:44:08,395 and officials hope eventually he'll be able to mix with the general population. 760 00:44:09,897 --> 00:44:12,983 [Ratcliff] On the last day I saw him, it was the day before Thanksgiving. 761 00:44:14,193 --> 00:44:17,488 He gave me a card, and he underlined the word "friend." 762 00:44:17,571 --> 00:44:20,574 It indicated that, uh, he was beginning to understand 763 00:44:20,658 --> 00:44:22,868 what friendship was for the very first time. 764 00:44:25,621 --> 00:44:27,748 [Wendy] After he was in prison for a year, 765 00:44:27,831 --> 00:44:29,541 I went and visited him. 766 00:44:29,625 --> 00:44:32,961 He said, "I'm not gonna do this anymore. I can't just sit here in isolation." 767 00:44:33,045 --> 00:44:36,048 He said, "If I can't interact with other people, 768 00:44:36,715 --> 00:44:39,301 that's gonna be worse than if I died." 769 00:44:40,678 --> 00:44:44,098 He said, "I'm gonna be asked to be put in general population." 770 00:44:44,181 --> 00:44:47,059 I said, "Jeff, you know, you're gonna be dead shortly." 771 00:44:47,142 --> 00:44:50,354 "Because everybody had such strong, 772 00:44:50,437 --> 00:44:52,314 strong views 773 00:44:52,398 --> 00:44:54,441 and opinions about your actions." 774 00:44:55,693 --> 00:44:57,569 "We don't need any further loss of life." 775 00:44:59,947 --> 00:45:02,741 [Jeffrey] I tell you, Wendy. I don't think I'm gonna be able to keep 776 00:45:02,825 --> 00:45:04,827 a level head. I really don't. 777 00:45:05,703 --> 00:45:07,371 Because I've always been one 778 00:45:07,454 --> 00:45:10,541 who needs stimulation, mental stimulation. 779 00:45:12,418 --> 00:45:13,544 Uh... 780 00:45:13,627 --> 00:45:16,213 And I just don't have the patience that I should. 781 00:45:25,431 --> 00:45:27,975 [Wendy] I had a very hard time that day leaving. 782 00:45:31,770 --> 00:45:33,856 And I just said, "Please don't do this." 783 00:45:35,858 --> 00:45:38,193 "You're just not gonna make it." 784 00:45:43,574 --> 00:45:45,159 [suspenseful music playing] 785 00:45:47,953 --> 00:45:49,163 [door closes] 786 00:45:51,582 --> 00:45:52,916 [tape rolling] 787 00:46:00,549 --> 00:46:04,595 In November of 1994, while he was in the prison, he was at the work detail. 788 00:46:05,971 --> 00:46:07,973 He and a man named Jesse Anderson 789 00:46:08,056 --> 00:46:10,768 were assigned to clean up lockers in the gym. 790 00:46:12,978 --> 00:46:15,856 Christopher Scarver, a man who my office had convicted of murder 791 00:46:15,939 --> 00:46:18,442 a number of years earlier, was on the same work detail. 792 00:46:19,151 --> 00:46:21,737 He took the barbell from the exercise room 793 00:46:22,446 --> 00:46:25,240 and bludgeoned Dahmer over the head with that weapon. 794 00:46:25,324 --> 00:46:28,160 The information I received from the prison was 795 00:46:28,243 --> 00:46:30,871 he did not resist the attack. 796 00:46:32,623 --> 00:46:37,002 [Berlin] The irony in all of this is that the first time that Mr. Dahmer killed 797 00:46:37,085 --> 00:46:39,797 was when he picked up some weight lifting equipment 798 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,090 and took the life of Steven Hicks. 799 00:46:43,008 --> 00:46:44,802 The whole thing came full cycle. 800 00:46:44,885 --> 00:46:46,261 [thuds] 801 00:46:48,555 --> 00:46:51,892 [Crocker] He was in general population within a year of when he was killed. 802 00:46:52,434 --> 00:46:54,812 It was surprising that Dahmer lived that long. 803 00:46:56,939 --> 00:46:58,690 [anchor] Dahmer's father Lionel joins us. 804 00:46:58,774 --> 00:47:00,943 Tell me, you told me that you were at work 805 00:47:01,026 --> 00:47:03,737 when your wife called to say your son had been injured. 806 00:47:03,821 --> 00:47:05,364 What then happened after that? 807 00:47:06,114 --> 00:47:09,910 She had called and... and hit me with the news 808 00:47:09,993 --> 00:47:13,163 that... that Jeff had passed away 809 00:47:13,247 --> 00:47:15,082 that morning about ten o'clock. 810 00:47:15,165 --> 00:47:17,501 I just couldn't believe it. I... 811 00:47:18,252 --> 00:47:21,046 I started sobbing and... and, uh, shaking. 812 00:47:22,047 --> 00:47:23,340 [Wendy] I was very upset. 813 00:47:24,132 --> 00:47:26,009 You can't help but become close with somebody 814 00:47:26,093 --> 00:47:29,054 when you spend that many days, weeks, months with them. 815 00:47:29,137 --> 00:47:33,559 Some suspected that the prison system had deliberately undertaken 816 00:47:33,642 --> 00:47:35,060 to execute Dahmer, 817 00:47:35,143 --> 00:47:37,020 and the governor, very wisely, 818 00:47:37,104 --> 00:47:40,649 immediately ordered a commission to investigate it. 819 00:47:40,732 --> 00:47:44,862 [reporter] This prison has nearly 3 dozen video monitors, electronic steel doors, 820 00:47:44,945 --> 00:47:47,739 yet somehow 25-year-old Christopher Scarver 821 00:47:47,823 --> 00:47:50,993 allegedly managed to elude the elaborate security system. 822 00:47:51,076 --> 00:47:54,454 [Ratcliff] One went to answer a phone call the other was listening to music. 823 00:47:54,538 --> 00:47:56,665 It was ridiculous no one was around. 824 00:47:57,499 --> 00:47:59,459 [Ross] I used to work in prison. 825 00:48:00,127 --> 00:48:03,589 We watched them bathe. We watched them eat and sleep. 826 00:48:03,672 --> 00:48:05,674 We watched them pee and poo. 827 00:48:05,757 --> 00:48:08,218 Any time they moved, we were there. 828 00:48:08,302 --> 00:48:12,014 Dahmer was one of the most celebrated prisoners in the western hemisphere. 829 00:48:13,223 --> 00:48:17,352 How is it that so prominent a prisoner could be executed in the prison? 830 00:48:18,979 --> 00:48:22,733 There was a study, and, uh, the commission said there was no crime involved, 831 00:48:22,816 --> 00:48:26,695 that there was no conspiracy, no inside job to get rid of Dahmer. 832 00:48:26,778 --> 00:48:30,657 They have given him good, fair, uh, care. 833 00:48:31,325 --> 00:48:34,453 They've guarded him. Uh, they knew the potential dangers. 834 00:48:34,536 --> 00:48:36,204 It's not the prison's fault. 835 00:48:36,288 --> 00:48:38,707 Jeff, for all that he was a killer, 836 00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:40,459 could never defend himself. 837 00:48:42,044 --> 00:48:44,546 [Mccann] I... I could not celebrate when he was killed. 838 00:48:45,672 --> 00:48:49,384 I can understand why some might, but I felt nothing but sadness. 839 00:48:50,218 --> 00:48:52,262 A sad story with a sad ending. 840 00:48:53,847 --> 00:48:55,140 [somber music playing] 841 00:48:59,186 --> 00:49:02,064 [Wendy] Jeffrey Dahmer was a very complex person. 842 00:49:04,191 --> 00:49:07,319 He was a very hurting individual 843 00:49:07,402 --> 00:49:10,572 that felt soulless, felt empty. 844 00:49:13,533 --> 00:49:16,995 [from recorder] Did it enter your mind that it seemed a waste to destroy somebody 845 00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:20,290 who looked so nice while they were still alive? 846 00:49:20,374 --> 00:49:22,334 [Jeffrey] Yeah, it did. 847 00:49:23,126 --> 00:49:25,462 I felt that it was... 848 00:49:26,922 --> 00:49:31,301 a waste that I couldn't keep them longer without having to kill them, 849 00:49:31,385 --> 00:49:34,680 but I didn't know any other way to make them stay 850 00:49:34,763 --> 00:49:36,556 and to control them. 851 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,433 I had no choice in the matter. 852 00:49:39,977 --> 00:49:43,814 [Wendy] Did you, uh, feel emotions of any kind? 853 00:49:44,439 --> 00:49:47,234 [Jeffrey] I felt a lot of... 854 00:49:47,776 --> 00:49:49,528 a great deal of remorse. 855 00:49:54,533 --> 00:49:56,743 [Wendy] I don't think Jeffrey ever found out 856 00:49:56,827 --> 00:49:58,996 a good enough answer for him 857 00:49:59,079 --> 00:50:01,289 as to why he did what he did. 858 00:50:03,208 --> 00:50:06,878 He said, "Through all of these forensic doctors I'm talking to, 859 00:50:06,962 --> 00:50:09,673 if one of them could give me a reason why." 860 00:50:10,757 --> 00:50:12,676 "I really would like to know." 861 00:50:12,759 --> 00:50:16,346 But with his death, I knew he would never find out why. 862 00:50:18,181 --> 00:50:21,018 [Berlin] We can easily just say this is an evil monster. 863 00:50:21,101 --> 00:50:24,563 "Why'd he do it?" "'Cause he's evil." "How do we know?" "'Cause he did it." 864 00:50:24,646 --> 00:50:27,274 It's just a label masquerading as an explanation. 865 00:50:28,108 --> 00:50:31,445 [Wendy] There were still things that I wanted to know about him, 866 00:50:31,528 --> 00:50:33,739 things I wanted to talk to him about. 867 00:50:34,656 --> 00:50:36,908 It was a waste of an opportunity 868 00:50:36,992 --> 00:50:40,787 for people to study what made him tick. 869 00:50:42,247 --> 00:50:45,042 They were horrific, terrible things that he did, 870 00:50:45,125 --> 00:50:48,295 but if he really couldn't control his conduct, 871 00:50:48,378 --> 00:50:50,005 let's find out what's going on here. 872 00:50:50,088 --> 00:50:51,923 Maybe we can all learn something as a society. 873 00:50:59,056 --> 00:51:01,016 [Boyle] Jeffrey Dahmer, he didn't care. 874 00:51:01,099 --> 00:51:03,518 He had no sympathy for them. 875 00:51:03,602 --> 00:51:04,978 He had no remorse. 876 00:51:07,856 --> 00:51:11,485 And far as I know, he never felt bad for the people he harmed, 877 00:51:11,985 --> 00:51:13,570 all the damage he did. 878 00:51:17,157 --> 00:51:19,993 [Fleming] Dahmer's victims had very little recourse in the end. 879 00:51:21,328 --> 00:51:23,330 And the family members who had survived, 880 00:51:23,413 --> 00:51:26,792 there was very little to compensate them for their losses. 881 00:51:27,375 --> 00:51:32,255 But what was left was Dahmer's property that had been taken out of his apartment. 882 00:51:33,131 --> 00:51:34,731 [reporter 1] That's when a judge ordered 883 00:51:34,758 --> 00:51:38,095 that Dahmer's possessions, including his instruments of death, 884 00:51:38,178 --> 00:51:40,430 be auctioned off to the highest bidder. 885 00:51:40,514 --> 00:51:43,391 The proceeds would be divided among the victims' families. 886 00:51:44,351 --> 00:51:48,313 [Fleming] A philanthropist purchased everything on behalf of the victims. 887 00:51:48,396 --> 00:51:50,982 [reporter 2] Milwaukee businessman Joe Zilber 888 00:51:51,066 --> 00:51:53,401 launched an effort to buy everything and destroy it. 889 00:51:53,485 --> 00:51:56,238 Zilber reached out to fellow business leaders, politicians, 890 00:51:56,321 --> 00:51:57,989 and prominent Milwaukeeans. 891 00:51:58,073 --> 00:52:01,535 They raised $400,000 and purchased all the items. 892 00:52:02,035 --> 00:52:05,163 [Joe Zilber] They're upset that a situation would have to occur 893 00:52:05,247 --> 00:52:07,082 where these terrible, terrible items 894 00:52:07,165 --> 00:52:09,918 would go on a public auction block 895 00:52:10,001 --> 00:52:13,463 in a very highly visible, 896 00:52:13,547 --> 00:52:14,965 worldwide way. 897 00:52:15,465 --> 00:52:18,718 [reporter 3] The items were then loaded into a garbage truck 898 00:52:18,802 --> 00:52:21,555 and taken to an undisclosed landfill 899 00:52:21,638 --> 00:52:22,848 in Illinois. 900 00:52:28,061 --> 00:52:31,690 [Mccann] He took lives for a few hours of sexual pleasure 901 00:52:32,274 --> 00:52:36,486 of persons that had done him nothing evil, or toward which he would have no ill will. 902 00:52:36,570 --> 00:52:38,113 He took their life. 903 00:52:39,072 --> 00:52:40,365 That's the tragedy. 904 00:52:41,408 --> 00:52:43,702 I would hope the world would forget about Dahmer, 905 00:52:43,785 --> 00:52:46,371 and he would become a part of the ash bin of history. 906 00:52:46,454 --> 00:52:48,456 [revving] 907 00:52:51,376 --> 00:52:52,711 [birds chirping] 908 00:52:52,794 --> 00:52:55,589 [Bass] All the tenants living in the Oxford Apartments, 909 00:52:55,672 --> 00:52:59,134 we held a meeting to decide on what we were gonna do. 910 00:52:59,718 --> 00:53:03,263 And we decided that we didn't want to live there anymore. 911 00:53:07,225 --> 00:53:09,102 [Shirley] It will give me relief 912 00:53:09,728 --> 00:53:12,230 to know that the young men that died here, 913 00:53:12,314 --> 00:53:15,442 their souls and their body, will seem at rest with this down. 914 00:53:15,525 --> 00:53:17,944 [reporter 4] So the Oxford will be razed, 915 00:53:18,028 --> 00:53:21,656 and it is hoped the tragic memories born here can be buried forever. 916 00:53:24,951 --> 00:53:28,079 [reporter 5] What many call a symbol of pain and senseless violence 917 00:53:28,163 --> 00:53:30,916 will no longer be so visible to the city of Milwaukee 918 00:53:30,999 --> 00:53:33,752 and the families of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims. 919 00:53:37,964 --> 00:53:41,343 [Fleming] I can understand Milwaukee wants to put this case behind it. 920 00:53:41,426 --> 00:53:43,678 I think it's important, though, to understand 921 00:53:43,762 --> 00:53:46,806 that there are people out there who do horrific things. 922 00:53:48,475 --> 00:53:49,768 Evil is real. 923 00:53:51,102 --> 00:53:53,813 Jeffrey Dahmer not only killed his victims, 924 00:53:53,897 --> 00:53:55,690 but he hurt a community. 925 00:53:56,274 --> 00:54:00,612 The pain of Jeffrey Dahmer's killings hurt Milwaukee. 926 00:54:01,404 --> 00:54:04,616 The... The families were people that we saw on TV. 927 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,036 The neighborhood was a neighborhood that we knew. 928 00:54:08,119 --> 00:54:09,913 [chanting] 929 00:54:11,706 --> 00:54:14,376 [Anne] This was a case that exposed 930 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,753 a lot of racial issues, 931 00:54:16,836 --> 00:54:19,130 a lot of different biases, 932 00:54:19,714 --> 00:54:22,968 both in the police department and the community that is Milwaukee. 933 00:54:23,051 --> 00:54:24,427 [chanting] 934 00:54:25,178 --> 00:54:29,099 [Crocker] What Dahmer was doing was he was feeding on the undetectable 935 00:54:29,182 --> 00:54:32,352 in our community, and he was protected by the institutions 936 00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:36,398 that were supposed to be protecting these weakest, most vulnerable people. 937 00:54:36,481 --> 00:54:39,317 He preyed on them, and the police did not protect them. 938 00:54:42,362 --> 00:54:46,700 Whatever we learn, it's not gonna be worth what these families have suffered, 939 00:54:46,783 --> 00:54:48,535 but let's not just throw it away. 940 00:54:49,411 --> 00:54:51,621 It's important to get this right, 941 00:54:52,289 --> 00:54:56,751 to talk about this in a way that gives dignity to these victims. 942 00:54:58,503 --> 00:55:02,465 [Causey] We can't go back and fix what happened back in 1991 943 00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:05,093 and prior to that when he started killing people. 944 00:55:08,847 --> 00:55:10,390 What you can do, though, 945 00:55:10,473 --> 00:55:13,643 is have people talk about what happened, 946 00:55:14,394 --> 00:55:19,816 so we don't fall into the same traps and shed light on it, 947 00:55:19,899 --> 00:55:24,904 so the crime that we see on a daily basis stops or slows down. 948 00:55:26,281 --> 00:55:28,366 The poverty, the high crime, 949 00:55:29,034 --> 00:55:32,037 the fact that we don't care about the disadvantaged, 950 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,749 all those things provided a playground for him to operate in. 951 00:55:36,583 --> 00:55:39,919 To prevent something like that from happening again, 952 00:55:40,003 --> 00:55:42,172 you have to address these issues 953 00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:44,341 today. 954 00:55:46,676 --> 00:55:48,553 [Connor] There's always gonna be that pain, 955 00:55:48,636 --> 00:55:50,597 that remembrance of what happened. 956 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:53,850 We're always gonna do the "what-ifs." 957 00:55:53,933 --> 00:55:55,602 You know? Where would they be now? 958 00:55:55,685 --> 00:55:59,647 What kind of life would they have had? You're always gonna miss that person. 959 00:56:02,150 --> 00:56:04,486 [Ross] Humanizing the individuals 960 00:56:04,569 --> 00:56:06,404 who lost their lives 961 00:56:06,488 --> 00:56:07,989 is important. 962 00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:11,743 Recognizing that each one of those young men 963 00:56:12,410 --> 00:56:14,162 had a mother, 964 00:56:14,245 --> 00:56:15,830 a father, 965 00:56:15,914 --> 00:56:17,874 had sisters and brothers 966 00:56:17,957 --> 00:56:21,211 that loved them and still miss them. 967 00:56:23,421 --> 00:56:25,048 [somber music playing] 968 00:56:26,257 --> 00:56:29,886 They were just trying to do 969 00:56:29,969 --> 00:56:32,055 what we're all trying to do. 970 00:56:32,138 --> 00:56:33,515 Survive. 971 00:56:34,265 --> 00:56:37,602 Live and enjoy the life that they'd been given. 972 00:56:38,478 --> 00:56:40,855 They had a life 973 00:56:40,939 --> 00:56:43,024 that they loved. 974 00:56:43,775 --> 00:56:47,237 I think it's important to tell their story. 975 00:56:48,571 --> 00:56:50,824 Nobody deserves to die like that.