1 00:00:01,749 --> 00:00:04,818 [Janet screams] 2 00:00:05,313 --> 00:00:06,655 [screaming] You’re hurting me. 3 00:00:06,655 --> 00:00:11,957 You’re hurting me. You’re hurting me. [crying] 4 00:00:14,289 --> 00:00:16,665 [Janet grunting] 5 00:00:16,665 --> 00:00:18,568 [Janet groaning] 6 00:00:18,568 --> 00:00:22,099 [overlapping tape recorder chatter] 7 00:00:50,996 --> 00:00:51,832 [Janet screams] 8 00:00:51,832 --> 00:00:57,431 - [sobbing] I can’t tell you. - [Peggy] What’s the matter? 9 00:00:57,431 --> 00:01:00,500 [Grosse] This time, Janet was thrown right out of the room, 10 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:02,172 onto the stairs. 11 00:01:05,241 --> 00:01:08,145 I saw you banging on the floor, Janet. 12 00:01:08,244 --> 00:01:09,916 [Janet] I didn’t bang. 13 00:01:09,916 --> 00:01:12,589 [Grosse] I saw you bang. 14 00:01:14,954 --> 00:01:16,186 Janet. Can you hear me, Janet? 15 00:01:16,186 --> 00:01:19,288 - [Janet breathing heavily] - [Grosse] Janet, can you hear me? 16 00:01:19,288 --> 00:01:21,488 [Nottingham] One time when we s-- 17 00:01:22,456 --> 00:01:26,526 [Grosse] Why didn’t you spit the water out until I told you? 18 00:01:27,604 --> 00:01:32,169 No, I don’t want you to do anything until I tell you. 19 00:01:57,557 --> 00:02:02,034 [Grosse] Janet. Janet. Janet. 20 00:02:02,034 --> 00:02:07,303 Janet. Can you hear me? Janet? Can you hear me, Janet? 21 00:03:13,908 --> 00:03:17,340 [Grosse] All right, Janet. Well done. All right, now, Janet. 22 00:03:17,340 --> 00:03:18,638 There’s a good girl. 23 00:03:18,638 --> 00:03:21,817 There’s a good girl. All right. 24 00:03:21,817 --> 00:03:24,479 [Janet] I blamed myself a lot. 25 00:03:26,184 --> 00:03:32,355 The fact that I went into care alone and Margaret and Bill were still there. 26 00:03:36,458 --> 00:03:40,660 It was my fault because I was the epicenter. 27 00:03:49,075 --> 00:03:50,505 Why me? 28 00:03:53,343 --> 00:03:59,019 Why did it happen to me, our family? Why? 29 00:04:05,289 --> 00:04:10,723 I’ve never actually done that many interviews or documentaries. 30 00:04:10,723 --> 00:04:14,496 And I was always very dubious about doing any of them 31 00:04:14,496 --> 00:04:16,003 ’cause it does bring it all back again, 32 00:04:16,003 --> 00:04:21,877 and there’s all the emotions that I’ve tried to escape all my life. 33 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,997 - [Margaret] Oh. - Yeah, I remember that one. 34 00:04:42,997 --> 00:04:46,902 - The look of terror on Mum’s face. - Yeah, I remember. 35 00:04:55,636 --> 00:04:57,737 - [Janet] That one. - [Margaret] Yeah. 36 00:04:57,737 --> 00:05:00,509 [Janet] When I was pulled out of bed. 37 00:05:00,509 --> 00:05:03,347 [Margaret] And that distressed me to see you like that. 38 00:05:03,347 --> 00:05:05,712 That distressed me terrible. 39 00:05:19,495 --> 00:05:23,631 Yeah, I remember being-- being turned off the settee. 40 00:05:23,972 --> 00:05:26,139 Tipped upside down. 41 00:05:26,634 --> 00:05:29,109 - It-It just turned over. And-- - [Margaret] Yeah. 42 00:05:29,109 --> 00:05:32,046 And she’d run off it, and then it’d be over on the-- 43 00:05:32,046 --> 00:05:33,949 tip up on the floor. 44 00:05:41,286 --> 00:05:46,654 Does feel strange though. Like going back in time. 45 00:05:46,654 --> 00:05:50,658 Really does. All those years ago. 46 00:05:55,465 --> 00:05:57,401 Looking back now, 47 00:05:57,401 --> 00:06:02,274 something could come into our lives, into our house. 48 00:06:03,242 --> 00:06:08,478 Could it have been something that drew energy from me? 49 00:06:14,781 --> 00:06:17,619 [Grosse] June, 1978. 50 00:06:17,619 --> 00:06:19,786 Janet has now spent six weeks 51 00:06:19,786 --> 00:06:22,228 in a home run by nuns. 52 00:06:23,427 --> 00:06:26,859 We are redoubling our efforts to help her, 53 00:06:26,859 --> 00:06:29,466 but none of the doctors, psychiatrists, 54 00:06:29,466 --> 00:06:32,799 or psychologists who have witnessed her altered states 55 00:06:32,799 --> 00:06:35,835 can agree on their diagnosis. 56 00:06:36,077 --> 00:06:39,410 The psychiatrist consulted by the local doctor 57 00:06:39,410 --> 00:06:44,646 suggested we simply go away and leave the family alone. 58 00:06:45,119 --> 00:06:47,583 [Carr] Maurice was a very compassionate man. 59 00:06:47,583 --> 00:06:51,620 And there’s no doubt that he cared about the family. 60 00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:53,787 That’s important because, as a psychical researcher, 61 00:06:53,787 --> 00:06:56,229 you probably want the phenomena to go on as long as possible. 62 00:06:56,229 --> 00:06:58,968 You know, this doesn’t often happen, so you’re quite keen to-- 63 00:06:58,968 --> 00:07:02,268 to sort of get evidence for this. On the other hand, 64 00:07:02,268 --> 00:07:05,898 as a human being, you’re dealing-- you-you realize you’re dealing 65 00:07:05,898 --> 00:07:07,900 with people who are going through a very traumatic state. 66 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:12,707 And-- And so, from that point of view, you want the phenomena to stop. 67 00:07:16,876 --> 00:07:20,715 [Janet] I was having these bad nightmares. 68 00:07:23,124 --> 00:07:25,819 Nights used to be so long. 69 00:07:25,819 --> 00:07:31,594 When I look back now, I don’t know how I stayed sane. 70 00:07:34,795 --> 00:07:37,402 I just wanted to run away. 71 00:07:40,977 --> 00:07:44,673 [Paul] I do remember being concerned about Janet. 72 00:07:44,673 --> 00:07:48,611 [stammers] Just mentally and physically, emotionally. 73 00:07:50,547 --> 00:07:53,847 To be screaming, hysterical, 74 00:07:53,847 --> 00:07:59,523 to have that amount of tension, she needed help. 75 00:08:02,097 --> 00:08:04,528 [Grosse] July the 26th, 1978. 76 00:08:04,528 --> 00:08:08,433 We have finally got Janet admitted to the Maudsley Hospital 77 00:08:08,433 --> 00:08:11,238 under the care of Dr. Peter Fenwick, 78 00:08:11,238 --> 00:08:14,901 head of the neurological department. 79 00:08:18,014 --> 00:08:19,411 [Fenwick] Guy Playfair said to me, 80 00:08:19,411 --> 00:08:23,943 "We’ve got this fascinating phenomena going on at Enfield. 81 00:08:23,943 --> 00:08:25,615 A poltergeist. 82 00:08:26,055 --> 00:08:32,622 The girl, Janet, goes into strange, contorted positions. 83 00:08:33,590 --> 00:08:37,033 And do you think that she has epilepsy?" 84 00:08:37,462 --> 00:08:39,365 And so, I originally thought, 85 00:08:39,365 --> 00:08:42,632 "Well, poltergeists and epilepsy? 86 00:08:42,797 --> 00:08:44,238 Doubt it. 87 00:08:45,206 --> 00:08:48,440 But it’s certainly worth looking at Janet." 88 00:08:56,217 --> 00:08:58,747 [Janet] I thought I was going home. 89 00:08:58,747 --> 00:09:04,654 So, I was very surprised to be going to stay in a hospital. 90 00:09:06,018 --> 00:09:08,427 [Fenwick] Remember, it’s 47 years ago, 91 00:09:08,427 --> 00:09:12,926 but I do have Janet’s permission to talk about her, 92 00:09:12,926 --> 00:09:15,071 uh, on-- on camera. 93 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:20,032 I’m a neuropsychiatrist, which means "neuro" understand the brain-- 94 00:09:20,032 --> 00:09:23,376 - "psychiatrist"-- understand behavior. - If you looking at this... 95 00:09:23,376 --> 00:09:30,350 People who had disorders of behavior used to be referred to me. 96 00:09:31,153 --> 00:09:34,750 I was also interested in consciousness. 97 00:09:34,750 --> 00:09:38,226 And so, my interests were wider 98 00:09:38,226 --> 00:09:41,493 than just simple reductionist science. 99 00:09:43,891 --> 00:09:45,167 What I was wanting to know is 100 00:09:45,167 --> 00:09:47,994 whether you could separate poltergeist effects, 101 00:09:47,994 --> 00:09:52,834 epilepsy, and behavioral changes in the person. 102 00:09:52,834 --> 00:09:55,573 [Janet breathes deeply] 103 00:09:56,838 --> 00:10:01,414 We ran a whole lot of tests on her to see, particularly, 104 00:10:01,414 --> 00:10:05,649 if there was an organic basis for her behavior. 105 00:10:08,652 --> 00:10:12,986 [Janet] They wanted to see what was going on in me brain. 106 00:10:16,594 --> 00:10:18,497 When you’re that young, you know, you think, 107 00:10:18,497 --> 00:10:22,567 "Psychiatry, what does that really mean?" You know? 108 00:10:24,899 --> 00:10:27,275 People think, "Oh. It’s madness. 109 00:10:27,275 --> 00:10:30,278 They’ve gone into there because they’re mad." 110 00:10:30,278 --> 00:10:32,379 But there’s different reasons. 111 00:10:32,379 --> 00:10:36,449 Is it something in the body? Or is it in the brain? 112 00:10:36,449 --> 00:10:40,717 Or is it something that’s happened from the past? 113 00:10:42,422 --> 00:10:45,491 [Fenwick] All of the physical tests we did were normal. 114 00:10:45,491 --> 00:10:51,761 And so we then wondered about the behavioral component. 115 00:10:53,532 --> 00:10:55,732 What I did know about poltergeists 116 00:10:55,732 --> 00:10:57,668 at this time was that they tended to occur, 117 00:10:57,668 --> 00:11:03,377 usually, where there was a very high tension in the family. 118 00:11:13,651 --> 00:11:19,118 [Janet] I haven’t really listened to the tapes up until now. 119 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:26,598 But it’s like I’m meant to go back ’cause it’s gonna teach me something. 120 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,404 [interviewer] Why do you think it’s chosen you? 121 00:11:30,404 --> 00:11:32,637 Why do you think it’s happening to you? 122 00:11:32,637 --> 00:11:39,215 Uh, well, I can’t directly answer that, 123 00:12:31,157 --> 00:12:32,664 [Janet] Looking back now, 124 00:12:32,664 --> 00:12:38,230 there was a lot of stress and tension in the family. 125 00:12:38,802 --> 00:12:43,378 The upset of Johnny going away to school. 126 00:12:43,378 --> 00:12:46,172 Mum and Dad had divorced. 127 00:12:48,548 --> 00:12:51,617 [Margaret] I remember before I was ten, 128 00:12:51,617 --> 00:12:55,819 my parents would regularly have rows. 129 00:12:57,458 --> 00:13:00,659 And one day, I don’t know what my mum done-- 130 00:13:00,659 --> 00:13:05,499 She went to open the front door, and he shut her arm in it. 131 00:13:05,499 --> 00:13:07,897 I remember this very well. 132 00:13:07,897 --> 00:13:11,131 And I remember things getting a bit overheated, 133 00:13:11,131 --> 00:13:15,168 and they were arguing and shouting at each other. 134 00:13:15,773 --> 00:13:18,578 And I remember, my father sat me down, 135 00:13:18,578 --> 00:13:24,386 and he said to me, um, "I won’t be living here anymore, you know. 136 00:13:24,386 --> 00:13:27,587 We’re getting divorced, Mum and I." 137 00:13:29,721 --> 00:13:32,328 Our lives changed then. 138 00:13:32,328 --> 00:13:36,189 And then I don’t remember much more childhood. 139 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:41,095 [Janet] It did really affect me. 140 00:13:41,095 --> 00:13:45,374 I mean, my dad he-- he was hotheaded. 141 00:13:45,374 --> 00:13:48,608 [stammers] He had no patience. 142 00:13:50,038 --> 00:13:52,942 But then I cried when he left. 143 00:13:56,011 --> 00:13:58,684 It was like there was an absence. 144 00:13:59,421 --> 00:14:01,621 Something was missing. 145 00:14:03,216 --> 00:14:07,286 Did hit me hard, actually. It did. Yeah. 146 00:14:07,286 --> 00:14:08,760 [child Janet] That’s what I’m saying, right? 147 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,256 You go in the small bed, Margaret. 148 00:14:10,256 --> 00:14:11,433 [child Margaret] Trust you to say that. 149 00:14:11,433 --> 00:14:13,028 [Grosse] There is a great deal of emotional stress 150 00:14:13,028 --> 00:14:14,865 - in the family. - ...come back from... 151 00:14:14,865 --> 00:14:16,669 [Peggy] ...the shops this afternoon. 152 00:14:16,669 --> 00:14:18,264 But how is stress capable 153 00:14:18,264 --> 00:14:21,773 of physically affecting its surroundings? 154 00:14:22,103 --> 00:14:25,480 How does all that fit into the picture? 155 00:14:26,272 --> 00:14:29,484 [Roz] The chair, which was standing by Janet’s bed. 156 00:14:29,484 --> 00:14:30,650 [Janet] Mum, he’s tricking me. 157 00:14:30,650 --> 00:14:32,454 [Peggy screams] Christ! It’s the ghost! 158 00:14:32,454 --> 00:14:35,347 And there was a chest of drawers moving towards the door. 159 00:14:35,347 --> 00:14:37,624 [child Janet] Bash the window! 160 00:14:37,624 --> 00:14:38,922 [Grosse] What’s happened? 161 00:14:38,922 --> 00:14:40,352 [Peggy] Now the chair gone over. 162 00:14:40,352 --> 00:14:44,026 [Grosse] It just tipped over the settee in front of us. 163 00:14:49,361 --> 00:14:53,475 [Janet] I’ve never used to like going upstairs on me own. 164 00:14:53,871 --> 00:14:58,337 It was like there was something there. 165 00:14:59,646 --> 00:15:03,881 It was a feeling like it was behind me. 166 00:15:09,051 --> 00:15:11,988 [Grosse, through recorder] Now, tell me, what are you doing here, 167 00:15:11,988 --> 00:15:14,056 and why are you here? 168 00:15:14,529 --> 00:15:18,566 [Bill, through recorder] Shall I tell you really who I am? 169 00:15:20,227 --> 00:15:22,537 [Bill, through recorder] Really? 170 00:15:23,736 --> 00:15:26,068 [Janet] Some people have to see it to believe it. 171 00:15:26,068 --> 00:15:32,239 But once you’ve experienced it, you know that it’s real. 172 00:15:38,718 --> 00:15:42,920 27th, 1978, in the Maudsley Hospital. 173 00:15:43,250 --> 00:15:44,790 Well, Janet, um, come over here 174 00:15:44,790 --> 00:15:46,462 and stick your mouth near the microphone 175 00:15:46,462 --> 00:15:47,826 - so we can hear you. - Yeah. 176 00:15:47,826 --> 00:15:48,464 That’s all right. 177 00:15:48,464 --> 00:15:50,422 You’re saying when you’re on your own, 178 00:15:50,422 --> 00:15:52,534 you’re not-- you’re not, um-- 179 00:15:56,032 --> 00:15:58,606 [Playfair] Really? Mmm. 180 00:16:06,141 --> 00:16:07,373 Does it? 181 00:16:07,373 --> 00:16:08,814 I mean-- [stammers] 182 00:16:18,989 --> 00:16:21,629 - You’d like to sleep on your own from now on? - Yeah. 183 00:16:21,629 --> 00:16:24,423 - What, on your own, without anybody? - Yeah. 184 00:16:32,233 --> 00:16:34,004 [whooshes, chuckles] 185 00:16:34,004 --> 00:16:35,511 I’ve got a radio. 186 00:16:36,611 --> 00:16:38,206 - Mmm. What, on your own, without anybody? - Yeah. 187 00:16:38,206 --> 00:16:42,474 [Janet] Strange, sort of, listening to me at that age. 188 00:16:42,474 --> 00:16:46,852 I seem quite determined. I think, "Wow. 189 00:16:46,852 --> 00:16:49,118 [stammers] Really? Was this me?" 190 00:16:49,690 --> 00:16:51,593 Think you’ll forget all about your dad soon? 191 00:16:51,593 --> 00:16:53,529 You know, when you grow up and-- 192 00:16:54,486 --> 00:16:56,422 You’ll have lots of boyfriends before long. 193 00:16:56,422 --> 00:16:58,996 You won’t remember him. [chuckles] 194 00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:03,165 But-- But we gotta stop this damn thing, you know, now. 195 00:17:03,737 --> 00:17:07,774 - It’s not doing you any good. - I know. That’s what Mum said. 196 00:17:09,710 --> 00:17:14,110 [Playfair] You know, you’re gonna be quite famous one day. 197 00:17:22,558 --> 00:17:24,659 [Fenwick] There’s no doubt about Janet’s relief 198 00:17:24,659 --> 00:17:27,288 in getting away from the family. 199 00:17:29,224 --> 00:17:34,196 She immediately relaxed and became really a quite different girl 200 00:17:34,196 --> 00:17:37,166 after she’d been with us for a bit. 201 00:17:37,639 --> 00:17:39,773 We had her in there for six weeks, 202 00:17:39,773 --> 00:17:46,538 and we found... [chuckles] ...a not-unusual teenager. 203 00:17:56,724 --> 00:18:00,420 [Grosse] Mrs. Hodgson is talking about, uh, her interview... 204 00:18:00,420 --> 00:18:03,225 ...with Dr. Fenwick. 205 00:18:03,225 --> 00:18:06,327 - [Grosse] He asked you how Janet was. - Yeah. 206 00:18:06,327 --> 00:18:07,636 Just tell me that again, will you? 207 00:18:07,636 --> 00:18:09,264 And I turned round, and I said, uh, 208 00:18:09,264 --> 00:18:10,331 Janet has been a lot better 209 00:18:10,331 --> 00:18:12,905 since she’s been away from the house, which she has, 210 00:18:12,905 --> 00:18:16,007 - and she looked a lot better. - Yeah. Mmm. 211 00:18:28,855 --> 00:18:30,054 You know what she’s talking about. 212 00:18:30,054 --> 00:18:31,385 She looked very cowed before she left. 213 00:18:31,385 --> 00:18:32,958 Very cowed. She said it’s completely gone. 214 00:18:32,958 --> 00:18:36,555 Yeah. Well, I also said to him-- I-I-I must bear in mind, 215 00:18:36,555 --> 00:18:39,294 and I must admit that Janet is a moody child. 216 00:18:39,294 --> 00:18:42,231 - And she’s a very restless child. - [John] Yeah. 217 00:18:42,231 --> 00:18:44,871 [Peggy] But I’ll tell you what I think-- 218 00:18:44,871 --> 00:18:46,565 and I’m gonna be quite honest about it-- 219 00:18:46,565 --> 00:18:50,437 she’s my daughter, and I miss her very much, 220 00:18:50,437 --> 00:18:53,913 but I don’t think she should come back here. 221 00:18:55,607 --> 00:18:59,578 [Janet] With me, like, I was the black sheep, you know? 222 00:19:01,316 --> 00:19:04,858 She didn’t really want me ’cause I was trouble. 223 00:19:04,990 --> 00:19:09,665 [sniffles] I was part of the problem while it was happening. 224 00:19:14,769 --> 00:19:21,567 When I came out the Maudsley, I was picked up by the social worker. 225 00:19:22,007 --> 00:19:24,713 And he was taking me around children’s homes, 226 00:19:24,713 --> 00:19:29,080 trying to find another children’s home for me. 227 00:19:37,319 --> 00:19:40,553 He couldn’t find one. They were all full. 228 00:19:41,895 --> 00:19:42,555 [Grosse] Okay... 229 00:19:42,555 --> 00:19:46,163 [Janet] And in the end, he took me back to Mum. 230 00:19:51,773 --> 00:19:53,874 And Mum’s face, ah, 231 00:19:53,874 --> 00:19:57,372 I could tell she didn’t really want me home. 232 00:20:03,719 --> 00:20:09,824 I think she was fearful that it would all really start up badly again 233 00:20:09,824 --> 00:20:12,321 because I was back there. 234 00:20:17,194 --> 00:20:19,328 [announcer on TV] This is the... 235 00:20:19,328 --> 00:20:22,001 [TV show host] In this program, we’re going to explore an area 236 00:20:22,001 --> 00:20:26,071 where our common sense notions aren’t going to be much help to us at all. 237 00:20:26,071 --> 00:20:28,304 How does the uncertainty principle square up 238 00:20:28,304 --> 00:20:31,604 with the everyday world? [continues indistinctly] 239 00:20:31,604 --> 00:20:34,079 [Janet] When I got home, I just needed peace 240 00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:38,710 and... [sighs] ...to-- just to be left alone, really. 241 00:20:41,647 --> 00:20:45,024 [snoring] 242 00:20:52,834 --> 00:20:56,365 - [thud] - [grunts, sighs] 243 00:21:00,534 --> 00:21:05,110 [Janet breathing deeply] 244 00:21:09,213 --> 00:21:11,413 [Grosse grunts] 245 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:36,009 Clear off. Get out. We’ve had enough. 246 00:21:36,009 --> 00:21:41,047 We’ve had enough of you. Go back where you came from. 247 00:21:56,062 --> 00:22:02,904 [Grosse] I would like, for one moment, to contemplate the word "truth." 248 00:22:04,598 --> 00:22:07,139 Where does the truth lie? 249 00:22:07,139 --> 00:22:12,078 Only in the everyday decipherings of our five senses? 250 00:22:13,849 --> 00:22:17,985 Or might it rest in the depths of an unknown dimension... 251 00:22:17,985 --> 00:22:22,187 - [beeping on TV] - ...beyond our understanding? 252 00:22:33,396 --> 00:22:34,562 [Playfair] Hello, Mr. Grosse. 253 00:22:34,562 --> 00:22:37,906 It’s Sunday, October the 8th, 1978. 254 00:22:37,906 --> 00:22:41,569 And I’m just going to make a copy for you-- 255 00:22:41,569 --> 00:22:44,044 for your private collection-- 256 00:22:44,044 --> 00:22:49,742 of the tape I made with Peter Liefhebber and Dono Gmelig-Meyling. 257 00:22:49,742 --> 00:22:55,154 I thought this most remarkable story needed to be got down on tape at once, 258 00:22:55,154 --> 00:22:57,816 so I went round and I made the tape which follows. 259 00:22:57,816 --> 00:23:02,821 I won’t comment on it yet until you’ve had time to think it over. 260 00:23:03,723 --> 00:23:07,595 I think you’ll find these coincidences quite interesting. 261 00:23:07,595 --> 00:23:13,337 You’ll notice that I didn’t offer any information concerning you personally. 262 00:23:13,337 --> 00:23:15,504 [Grosse grunting] 263 00:23:15,944 --> 00:23:18,177 [Richard] Before the investigation, 264 00:23:18,177 --> 00:23:22,808 my father had suffered a huge emotional loss. 265 00:23:22,808 --> 00:23:25,921 And Guy-- because he was a spiritualist, 266 00:23:25,921 --> 00:23:27,989 because he believed in those things-- 267 00:23:27,989 --> 00:23:34,523 couldn’t get out of his mind a potential connection. 268 00:23:34,754 --> 00:23:37,592 All right. I’ll start the copy now. 269 00:23:41,431 --> 00:23:44,731 Friday, October the 6th, 1978. 270 00:23:44,731 --> 00:23:48,372 Belgravia Hotel, to see Peter Liefhebber. 271 00:23:48,372 --> 00:23:51,738 - Right. Here we are in the hotel, Peter. - Yes. 272 00:23:51,738 --> 00:23:52,409 Um, well, I wonder, 273 00:23:52,409 --> 00:23:54,840 could you tell me roughly what you told me on the phone? 274 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,612 Um, what exactly happened? 275 00:24:01,154 --> 00:24:02,287 Yes. 276 00:24:27,213 --> 00:24:29,578 And he didn’t say that about me, for instance? 277 00:24:29,578 --> 00:24:31,118 No. No, no. 278 00:24:31,613 --> 00:24:35,782 [Liefhebber] 279 00:24:49,004 --> 00:24:50,632 [Playfair] Well, I didn’t-- 280 00:24:50,632 --> 00:24:52,403 [Liefhebber] 281 00:25:04,481 --> 00:25:07,616 Mm-hmm. Yes. 282 00:25:16,922 --> 00:25:18,264 Mmm. 283 00:25:38,977 --> 00:25:41,320 [Playfair] 284 00:25:51,891 --> 00:25:54,960 [Grant] My sister was a character. 285 00:25:55,334 --> 00:25:58,436 My sister lived life to the full. 286 00:25:58,436 --> 00:26:04,145 She was Janet Esther Grosse, and she was 22 years old. 287 00:26:04,145 --> 00:26:08,710 She was 22 years old. N-- No age at all. 288 00:26:13,385 --> 00:26:18,324 [Richard] My sister was killed in a motorcycle accident in Cardiff. 289 00:26:19,017 --> 00:26:21,657 And it happened on my birthday. 290 00:26:22,592 --> 00:26:28,235 I received a visit from the police, I think, 2:30 in the morning, 291 00:26:28,466 --> 00:26:32,305 telling me that I should go to Cardiff Royal Infirmary 292 00:26:32,305 --> 00:26:34,769 because that’s where she was. 293 00:26:35,671 --> 00:26:38,773 Janet was lying on the hospital bed 294 00:26:38,773 --> 00:26:42,744 with her head wrapped in bandages, and two black eyes. 295 00:26:42,744 --> 00:26:47,353 She’d suffered, um, a major trauma to her head. 296 00:26:49,553 --> 00:26:52,358 And we all sat there. And it was a tragic day. 297 00:26:52,358 --> 00:26:54,756 And we eventually switched the machine off, 298 00:26:54,756 --> 00:26:57,792 and my sister passed away. 299 00:27:00,696 --> 00:27:05,239 And around that awful event 300 00:27:05,239 --> 00:27:09,408 were some extraordinary things that happened. 301 00:27:10,508 --> 00:27:15,381 Call them coincidence, call them f-- fate, call them whatever you like. 302 00:27:15,975 --> 00:27:20,551 The afternoon before, when my sister had her accident, 303 00:27:20,551 --> 00:27:22,817 my mother was on the beach. 304 00:27:22,817 --> 00:27:27,261 And at that time, 4:20 in the afternoon, she felt seriously ill, 305 00:27:27,261 --> 00:27:32,497 so ill that my father wanted to call a-- an ambulance to the beach. 306 00:27:33,058 --> 00:27:40,274 A clock that had always worked stopped at the precise time, 4:20. 307 00:27:41,605 --> 00:27:47,347 [Grant] It was the summer of 1976 when it didn’t rain for months, 308 00:27:47,347 --> 00:27:50,482 and there was a huge water shortage. 309 00:27:50,482 --> 00:27:55,256 And underneath my sister’s bedroom window is the roof 310 00:27:55,256 --> 00:27:58,292 of the extension to the kitchen. 311 00:27:59,084 --> 00:28:01,988 That roof was soaking wet. 312 00:28:02,087 --> 00:28:08,159 No other roofs anywhere around were wet. Just that roof. 313 00:28:11,338 --> 00:28:15,474 [Richard] But I think the most extraordinary event 314 00:28:15,474 --> 00:28:17,003 happened to me. 315 00:28:17,476 --> 00:28:20,281 After my sister died, on the way back, on the train, 316 00:28:20,281 --> 00:28:24,450 I realized that my sister would’ve sent me a birthday card. 317 00:28:24,714 --> 00:28:27,486 And that birthday card would almost certainly 318 00:28:27,486 --> 00:28:31,358 be on the mat at home when I got in. 319 00:28:33,558 --> 00:28:40,125 [Grant] Janet’s birthday card to Richard, August the 5th, 1976. 320 00:28:42,831 --> 00:28:47,572 I was absolutely amazed by what I saw. 321 00:28:47,836 --> 00:28:53,776 On the front was a person with a head wrapped in bandages, 322 00:28:53,776 --> 00:28:57,351 two black eyes, in a hospital gown. 323 00:28:58,715 --> 00:29:04,358 "I was going to buy you a bottle of toilet water for your birthday... 324 00:29:05,458 --> 00:29:09,187 but the lid fell on my head. Happy birthday." 325 00:29:09,396 --> 00:29:13,499 A strange, strange wording for a card. 326 00:29:13,763 --> 00:29:17,338 But what was even stranger was that my sister had written 327 00:29:17,338 --> 00:29:21,936 in her own hand an arrow pointing to the word "head." 328 00:29:21,936 --> 00:29:23,036 And it went down, and it said, 329 00:29:23,036 --> 00:29:29,383 "And there won’t be much left of that soon anyway. Love, Jan." 330 00:29:29,878 --> 00:29:33,453 How could she have... [stammers] ...known, but without knowing? 331 00:29:33,453 --> 00:29:37,116 H-- How could-- How could something like this happen? 332 00:29:37,116 --> 00:29:38,524 It’s... 333 00:29:40,889 --> 00:29:42,858 It’s too unreal. 334 00:29:45,861 --> 00:29:46,664 [Grant] All these phenomena, 335 00:29:46,664 --> 00:29:50,261 and the fact that they all happened at the same time, 336 00:29:50,261 --> 00:29:53,737 made us feel that there was something going on. 337 00:29:53,737 --> 00:29:55,508 [Grosse] Janet. Janet. 338 00:29:55,508 --> 00:29:56,872 [Margaret] Poltergeist. 339 00:29:56,872 --> 00:29:58,610 [Grant] Something that we couldn’t explain. 340 00:29:58,610 --> 00:30:00,480 [Playfair] Are you listening, Janet? 341 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,914 [Grosse] P-O-L-T-E-R-G-E-I-S-T. 342 00:30:05,914 --> 00:30:08,147 Poltergeist. 343 00:30:08,147 --> 00:30:11,051 [Grant] It changed him completely. 344 00:30:13,955 --> 00:30:16,463 [Grosse] Lo-Losing a child... 345 00:30:16,463 --> 00:30:21,226 Time helps, but, uh, you never get over it. 346 00:30:23,668 --> 00:30:25,296 Happens. 347 00:30:26,165 --> 00:30:29,938 I often wonder what would have happened had she lived, 348 00:30:29,938 --> 00:30:31,379 - how different our lives... - Mmm. 349 00:30:31,379 --> 00:30:34,514 ...would have been. Your life would have been quite different. 350 00:30:34,514 --> 00:30:35,306 You realize that, don’t you? 351 00:30:35,306 --> 00:30:36,714 My life would have been quite different 352 00:30:36,714 --> 00:30:38,551 because it was the extraordinary things 353 00:30:38,551 --> 00:30:40,311 that happened when she-- [stammers] 354 00:30:40,311 --> 00:30:44,392 Around about the time she died. Extraordinary psychic thing-- 355 00:30:44,392 --> 00:30:46,889 what I consider to be psychic, and so did you-- 356 00:30:46,889 --> 00:30:48,187 that happened, that, uh, sort of 357 00:30:48,187 --> 00:30:53,566 launched me onto this determination to try and find out more 358 00:30:53,566 --> 00:30:56,833 about what happens when you-- you die, 359 00:30:56,833 --> 00:30:59,836 and what psychic research is all about. 360 00:31:03,477 --> 00:31:05,105 [Richard] If you think of coincidence, 361 00:31:05,105 --> 00:31:10,715 then how extraordinary not only is that set of circumstances-- 362 00:31:10,715 --> 00:31:15,390 But my father goes to the Society and says, "I’d like a case," 363 00:31:15,390 --> 00:31:20,428 and the very first case that comes along turns out to be arguably 364 00:31:20,428 --> 00:31:25,323 the most important case in the history of paranormal activity. 365 00:31:26,324 --> 00:31:29,360 [Grosse] Did you-- Did you die in this house? 366 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,737 Did you pass on? You did pass on in this house? 367 00:31:32,737 --> 00:31:35,300 Now why are you here? Are you unhappy? 368 00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:40,140 [Janet] Now, I often wonder, you know, strange it may seem, 369 00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:41,339 it could be coincidence. 370 00:31:41,339 --> 00:31:45,816 It may not have been that his daughter’s name was Janet. 371 00:31:47,180 --> 00:31:49,721 But I think he felt that, at the time-- 372 00:31:49,721 --> 00:31:53,890 like he was put in touch with us for a reason. 373 00:31:54,055 --> 00:31:56,321 [Grosse, through recorder] You did pass on in this house? 374 00:31:56,321 --> 00:32:00,358 Now why are you here? Are you unhappy? 375 00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:02,569 [child Janet grunting] 376 00:32:02,569 --> 00:32:05,473 [Peggy] Christ! It’s the ghost! It’s the ghost! 377 00:32:05,473 --> 00:32:07,838 [Grosse] Janet. Can you hear me, Janet? 378 00:32:07,838 --> 00:32:11,710 - [indistinct recorder chatter] - [screaming] 379 00:32:23,381 --> 00:32:24,184 [sighs] 380 00:32:24,184 --> 00:32:29,189 Because he’d lost his daughter, you could argue that, you know, 381 00:32:29,189 --> 00:32:32,093 he had a-- a motive... [chuckles] 382 00:32:32,093 --> 00:32:35,393 ...a-an incentive to try and find evidence. 383 00:32:37,395 --> 00:32:40,772 But the question of coincidences or synchronicity, 384 00:32:40,772 --> 00:32:44,941 this domain of experience is fundamental. 385 00:32:45,513 --> 00:32:47,108 If you yourself have had an experience, 386 00:32:47,108 --> 00:32:52,047 that is what’s going to make you take this phenomena seriously. 387 00:32:52,278 --> 00:32:55,017 Certainly, for me, I’ve had experiences which-- 388 00:32:55,017 --> 00:32:57,921 which have, you know, made me feel... [stammers] 389 00:32:57,921 --> 00:32:59,186 ...these phenomena are g-- 390 00:32:59,186 --> 00:33:01,760 some of these phenomena are genuine. 391 00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:11,033 The whole point about psychical research is it does suggest 392 00:33:11,033 --> 00:33:14,102 that consciousness can actually directly interact 393 00:33:14,102 --> 00:33:16,137 with the physical world. 394 00:33:19,173 --> 00:33:23,012 [Fenwick] Because I had this interest in consciousness, 395 00:33:23,012 --> 00:33:28,017 obviously things like telepathy, psychokinesis and so on 396 00:33:28,017 --> 00:33:31,823 were phenomena which I was also interested in. 397 00:33:32,527 --> 00:33:38,456 I began to see consciousness as a much wider phenomenon, 398 00:33:38,698 --> 00:33:41,965 not just generated in the brain. 399 00:33:42,933 --> 00:33:44,462 I think the brain is in a field, 400 00:33:44,462 --> 00:33:48,499 and I think brain fields interact with each other. 401 00:33:49,071 --> 00:33:53,273 The way that I might look at the Enfield poltergeist would be 402 00:33:53,273 --> 00:33:55,550 that you have a highly disturbed adolescent. 403 00:33:55,550 --> 00:33:59,917 They’ve got this wonderful machine which is called their brain, 404 00:33:59,917 --> 00:34:05,087 and it can interact with the field of consciousness. 405 00:34:05,087 --> 00:34:09,025 And if it does that, then these things can arise. 406 00:34:10,290 --> 00:34:14,866 You can, by an intention, change things. 407 00:34:24,238 --> 00:34:27,175 [Carr] The physical world is just a sort of, you know-- 408 00:34:27,175 --> 00:34:28,308 it’s like a four-dimensional slice, 409 00:34:28,308 --> 00:34:33,016 in my perspective, of this-- of this higher-dimensional reality. 410 00:34:35,249 --> 00:34:39,484 And this higher-dimensional reality is, if you like-- 411 00:34:39,484 --> 00:34:42,157 that’s the world of-- of mind. 412 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,427 The-- The truth is, if psychic phenomena were real, 413 00:34:48,427 --> 00:34:51,870 it would be so important that we need to be sure. 414 00:34:51,870 --> 00:34:55,005 I got into psychic research through an experience of my own, 415 00:34:55,005 --> 00:34:59,141 a dramatic out-of-the-body- turned-mystical experience 416 00:34:59,141 --> 00:35:00,307 that I couldn’t understand at all. 417 00:35:00,307 --> 00:35:04,685 This was when I was a first-year student at Oxford in 1970. 418 00:35:05,081 --> 00:35:10,053 I became so committed to the idea that my spirit 419 00:35:10,053 --> 00:35:13,122 or astral body had left that I thought, 420 00:35:13,122 --> 00:35:17,027 "Well, I don’t want to carry on with what would’ve been a sensible career 421 00:35:17,027 --> 00:35:20,129 in psychology and physiology," which is what I was doing, 422 00:35:20,129 --> 00:35:24,067 "I want to prove to the world that there are psychic phenomena." 423 00:35:24,232 --> 00:35:27,598 I started doing a lot of experiments on telepathy, 424 00:35:27,598 --> 00:35:29,501 clairvoyance, precognition and so on. 425 00:35:29,501 --> 00:35:30,975 [announcer] According to one theory, 426 00:35:30,975 --> 00:35:33,879 PK powers fade with age and should therefore 427 00:35:33,879 --> 00:35:35,276 be strongest in babies. 428 00:35:35,276 --> 00:35:39,544 The computer will play a nice tune and show a smiling face, 429 00:35:39,544 --> 00:35:41,788 which Emily enjoys looking at, um, 430 00:35:41,788 --> 00:35:45,220 according to the output of the random number generator. 431 00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:49,125 [tune playing] 432 00:35:50,423 --> 00:35:53,525 And what happens is, if she’s using her PK successfully, 433 00:35:53,525 --> 00:35:56,000 it will play more often. 434 00:35:57,067 --> 00:35:59,267 [Blackmore] To begin with, I got some significant results 435 00:35:59,267 --> 00:36:01,676 - that you wouldn’t expect by chance. - Bye. 436 00:36:01,676 --> 00:36:04,679 [tune playing] 437 00:36:06,010 --> 00:36:09,409 [Blackmore] But then, over four to five years, 438 00:36:09,409 --> 00:36:11,950 the experimental work that I did 439 00:36:11,950 --> 00:36:16,889 led me to be... [stammers] ...ever and ever more doubtful. 440 00:36:17,252 --> 00:36:20,827 And I became more and more worried. 441 00:36:21,652 --> 00:36:24,996 "Well, how am I ever going to find these things?" 442 00:36:28,769 --> 00:36:30,969 "Well, if that doesn’t work, there’s always this. 443 00:36:30,969 --> 00:36:33,972 And if this doesn’t work, then there’s this. 444 00:36:33,972 --> 00:36:35,336 There’s always another door to open. 445 00:36:35,336 --> 00:36:37,206 There’s always another corner to turn." 446 00:36:37,206 --> 00:36:39,076 That was the feeling. 447 00:36:39,076 --> 00:36:40,748 Until one day, 448 00:36:40,748 --> 00:36:47,447 this thought came over me: What if none of it is true? 449 00:37:00,592 --> 00:37:03,067 [Carr] The whole point about psychical research 450 00:37:03,067 --> 00:37:06,301 is that you should be skeptical. 451 00:37:06,972 --> 00:37:08,039 I mean, not disbelieving, 452 00:37:08,039 --> 00:37:10,635 but you should start off always trying 453 00:37:10,635 --> 00:37:13,176 to find a natural explanation. 454 00:37:13,473 --> 00:37:14,606 That’s true of science in general. 455 00:37:14,606 --> 00:37:18,610 You should be skeptical in the sense that you’re always open. 456 00:37:19,512 --> 00:37:25,683 The Enfield case is without doubt one of the most evidential cases 457 00:37:25,683 --> 00:37:29,621 in the sense that we’ve got all these recordings. 458 00:37:31,590 --> 00:37:37,662 [Gregory] Inevitably, any so-called "spontaneous" case is chaotic, 459 00:37:37,662 --> 00:37:41,369 and it is hard to come by any definite conclusion. 460 00:37:41,369 --> 00:37:47,881 There is, as regards Enfield, a considerable amount of testimony. 461 00:37:49,014 --> 00:37:51,148 You see things that you can’t explain, 462 00:37:51,148 --> 00:37:53,084 you’ve got a tendency not to believe them. 463 00:37:53,084 --> 00:37:55,317 You’ve got a tendency to say, "I didn’t really see ’em." 464 00:37:55,317 --> 00:37:57,715 - [Grosse] Ah. - But you know you did. 465 00:37:58,155 --> 00:38:02,797 And there was a chest of drawers moving towards the door. 466 00:38:03,028 --> 00:38:04,161 [Nottingham] And there was banging. 467 00:38:04,161 --> 00:38:08,297 Banging on the side of the walls, and on the ceiling. 468 00:38:08,297 --> 00:38:08,869 On the floor. 469 00:38:08,869 --> 00:38:14,006 [Gregory] Some of this testimony is quite impressive and reassuring, 470 00:38:14,006 --> 00:38:18,010 but there is no real evidence. 471 00:38:20,881 --> 00:38:23,950 My view is that, unfortunately, 472 00:38:23,950 --> 00:38:29,252 much of the case withers away on closer inspection. 473 00:38:29,483 --> 00:38:32,893 There was a-- an ordinary kitchen chair moved across the room. 474 00:38:32,893 --> 00:38:38,756 Small armchair, and it jumped, was it, about four or five inches from the settee? 475 00:38:38,756 --> 00:38:40,098 and the policewoman saw it. 476 00:38:40,098 --> 00:38:44,201 It, um, came off the floor, oh, nearly a half inch, I should say. 477 00:38:44,201 --> 00:38:47,941 [Grosse] It moved approximately three to four feet 478 00:38:47,941 --> 00:38:49,140 and then came to rest. 479 00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:52,638 Moved about, well, I expect 18 inches, 480 00:38:52,638 --> 00:38:55,245 something like that. Just a short way. 481 00:38:56,741 --> 00:39:00,283 [Blackmore] Our brain’s main thing they’re doing all the time 482 00:39:00,283 --> 00:39:02,648 is recognizing patterns. 483 00:39:07,653 --> 00:39:09,424 The more we understand about the brain, 484 00:39:09,424 --> 00:39:14,066 the less room there is for belief in paranormal phenomena. 485 00:39:15,793 --> 00:39:21,799 Human bodies are machines, but somehow we want to be more than that. 486 00:39:22,437 --> 00:39:27,079 People want to believe there’s more than this world. 487 00:39:28,916 --> 00:39:31,116 [Morris] But as I entered the front room, 488 00:39:31,116 --> 00:39:33,745 something-- I think it was a LEGO brick-- 489 00:39:33,745 --> 00:39:36,319 came from behind me very low down 490 00:39:36,319 --> 00:39:38,387 and very fast and hit the wall in front of me. 491 00:39:38,387 --> 00:39:40,928 - I went straight toward... - [Carr] Looking back on it now... 492 00:39:40,928 --> 00:39:44,591 - [Morris] ...and stood with my back to it... - [Carr] ...my own impression 493 00:39:44,591 --> 00:39:48,496 is that, you know, there’s so many accounts, 494 00:39:49,398 --> 00:39:51,466 so many witnesses. 495 00:39:51,939 --> 00:39:56,372 One can’t just dismiss all those and say it was all fraud or imagination. 496 00:39:57,538 --> 00:40:00,772 What’s so f-frustrating is we still don’t know. 497 00:40:00,772 --> 00:40:02,147 Not just in the Enfield case, 498 00:40:02,147 --> 00:40:05,843 it applies to almost everything in psychical research. 499 00:40:05,843 --> 00:40:07,482 But that’s precisely what makes psych-- 500 00:40:07,482 --> 00:40:12,124 [stammers] ...the subject so tantalizing. 501 00:40:15,028 --> 00:40:21,265 How would you distinguish between what is nonsense and what is-- 502 00:40:21,265 --> 00:40:24,895 what is true? [breathes deeply] 503 00:40:29,944 --> 00:40:33,145 [Grosse] It has been said many times 504 00:40:33,145 --> 00:40:37,776 by skeptics and critics of psychic research 505 00:40:37,776 --> 00:40:43,881 that my interest in the subject was motivated by grief. 506 00:40:44,651 --> 00:40:49,821 And that this grief distorted my sense of reality. 507 00:40:54,562 --> 00:40:58,896 Their conclusions are entirely mistaken. 508 00:40:59,435 --> 00:41:05,705 The Enfield case proved to my satisfaction and beyond a shadow of doubt, 509 00:41:05,705 --> 00:41:13,515 that the realities of life and death are not what they appear to be. 510 00:41:31,467 --> 00:41:35,636 [Richard, through recorder] Bill, I want you to tell me 511 00:41:35,636 --> 00:41:40,542 whether you remember what happened to you when you died. 512 00:41:41,114 --> 00:41:44,348 Just before you died and just after you died. 513 00:41:44,348 --> 00:41:49,155 [Richard] Bill, who was the voice-- this is the ghost-- 514 00:41:49,551 --> 00:41:51,487 he described how he died. 515 00:41:52,224 --> 00:41:54,589 [Bill] Days before I died... 516 00:41:54,589 --> 00:41:57,130 I went blind. 517 00:41:57,427 --> 00:42:00,925 I had an hemorrhage, and I fell asleep... 518 00:42:00,925 --> 00:42:02,960 and I died in a chair. 519 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,106 In a corner downstairs. 520 00:42:08,867 --> 00:42:12,541 [Richard] Some years later, my father received a telephone call. 521 00:42:12,541 --> 00:42:17,513 And it was from a man who said he knew the voice. 522 00:42:18,976 --> 00:42:22,287 - [Grosse] Ah, hello. - Hello, Maurice. Nice to meet you again. 523 00:42:22,287 --> 00:42:24,014 - [Grosse] Nice seeing you again. - Come in. 524 00:42:24,014 --> 00:42:26,390 [Richard] This chap identified himself 525 00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:31,560 as the son of William Wilkins-- Bill. 526 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,200 [Richard, through recorder] Bill, I want you to tell me 527 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,205 whether you remember what happened to you when you died. 528 00:42:39,634 --> 00:42:43,374 Just before you died and just after you died. 529 00:42:50,876 --> 00:42:56,552 [Bill] Days before I died, I went blind. 530 00:42:57,421 --> 00:43:01,194 Then I had an hemorrhage, and I fell asleep, 531 00:43:01,194 --> 00:43:06,496 and I died in a chair in a corner downstairs. 532 00:43:07,233 --> 00:43:09,433 - Is-- That’s-- That’s right? - That’s exactly true. 533 00:43:09,433 --> 00:43:12,436 - That is exactly true, yes. - Mmm. [stammers] Exactly as he did. 534 00:43:12,436 --> 00:43:14,240 And we’re-- Of course, at that time, 535 00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:15,538 we certainly didn’t know how he died. 536 00:43:15,538 --> 00:43:17,672 - The only thing we knew at that time... - Mm-hmm. 537 00:43:17,672 --> 00:43:19,707 - ...was that your father had gone blind. - Yeah. 538 00:43:19,707 --> 00:43:21,115 - We didn’t know anything else. - [stammers] No, no. 539 00:43:21,115 --> 00:43:24,646 - Bu-But it describes exactly how he died. - That’s exactly what happened. 540 00:43:24,646 --> 00:43:27,814 He died in the chair, down in the living room. 541 00:43:27,814 --> 00:43:30,520 Uh, my mum popped out to the shop for ten minutes. 542 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,325 Mmm. When she came back, he was dead. 543 00:43:34,326 --> 00:43:35,525 [Grosse] Incredible. 544 00:43:35,525 --> 00:43:37,692 - [Bill’s son] That’s exact-- - [Grosse] And here we are... 545 00:43:37,692 --> 00:43:41,135 - ...another confirmation. - Mm-hmm. 546 00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:43,731 Mmm. Very interesting. 547 00:43:43,731 --> 00:43:47,537 Se-See, the sort of things like knocking on the wall. 548 00:43:47,537 --> 00:43:50,804 The three knocks, always three knocks on the wall. 549 00:43:50,804 --> 00:43:53,708 It was just a strange knock on the wall. 550 00:43:54,346 --> 00:43:56,876 [air-raid siren wailing] 551 00:43:56,876 --> 00:44:00,011 [Bill’s son] During the war they-they were air raid wardens together. 552 00:44:00,011 --> 00:44:01,980 And, uh, if ever the sirens went off, 553 00:44:01,980 --> 00:44:03,817 one would knock to the other one. 554 00:44:03,817 --> 00:44:05,357 And then they’d meet out the back, 555 00:44:05,357 --> 00:44:06,490 "Are you ready, Fred?" "Yeah." 556 00:44:06,490 --> 00:44:08,019 "Okay, see you outside in a moment." 557 00:44:08,019 --> 00:44:12,331 And then they’d go off. That’s how they used to communicate. 558 00:44:12,331 --> 00:44:13,695 Rather than go knocking on the door, 559 00:44:13,695 --> 00:44:17,061 there’d be three taps on the wall every time. [chuckles] 560 00:44:17,061 --> 00:44:19,932 Amazing. Hmm. 561 00:44:26,642 --> 00:44:30,514 [Richard] "Spoon bent at breakfast by Janet." 562 00:44:40,491 --> 00:44:42,229 These are things. These are just objects. 563 00:44:42,229 --> 00:44:47,630 And without context, they don’t mean anything. 564 00:44:48,697 --> 00:44:51,700 Except it represents, you know, this-- 565 00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:54,131 such an important part of my father’s life, 566 00:44:54,131 --> 00:44:57,772 and the time and effort that went into it. 567 00:45:01,446 --> 00:45:05,109 For me, the whole experience tells me 568 00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:10,818 that there are things above and beyond our senses. 569 00:45:12,083 --> 00:45:15,493 When someone tells me their story-- 570 00:45:15,493 --> 00:45:16,956 and so many people have stories 571 00:45:16,956 --> 00:45:24,161 of things that have happened to them-- I don’t dismiss them anymore. I listen. 572 00:45:26,438 --> 00:45:28,869 - [Grosse] Rolling? - [passenger] Yeah. Do I need a seat belt? 573 00:45:28,869 --> 00:45:32,312 - [Grosse] It doesn’t need a seat belt. - [passenger] No? Oh. 574 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,779 [Richard] The last 29 years of his life, 575 00:45:37,779 --> 00:45:41,816 he was a paranormal investigator, 576 00:45:41,816 --> 00:45:48,724 which I know he enjoyed probably more than any other time in his life. 577 00:45:50,022 --> 00:45:55,060 We went to "intraview" Britain’s leading expert on ghosts. Check it. 578 00:45:55,060 --> 00:46:01,000 I is here with Britain’s number one parapsychologist, Maurice Grosse. 579 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:06,907 And we is here, actually in a haunted house, and I is well scared. 580 00:46:06,907 --> 00:46:08,711 - I’s bricking it. - [audience laughing] 581 00:46:08,711 --> 00:46:11,142 How long has this house been haunted? 582 00:46:11,142 --> 00:46:12,451 This house? Aye. 583 00:46:12,451 --> 00:46:13,452 This-- Uh, no. You-- 584 00:46:13,452 --> 00:46:16,081 We got it all wrong. This is not a haunted house. 585 00:46:16,081 --> 00:46:18,358 - This-- - This is my house... [chuckles] 586 00:46:18,952 --> 00:46:19,755 You investigate things. 587 00:46:19,755 --> 00:46:21,625 Now, one of the-- the most difficult things 588 00:46:21,625 --> 00:46:23,957 that you ever did was the Enfield poltergeist. 589 00:46:23,957 --> 00:46:24,694 What things did you see? 590 00:46:24,694 --> 00:46:28,797 - Well, things flying about. We had-- - What things? 591 00:46:28,797 --> 00:46:30,436 Uh, big furniture, small furniture. 592 00:46:30,436 --> 00:46:31,998 In fact, the settee turned upside down 593 00:46:31,998 --> 00:46:35,771 and flew across the room right in front of me as I walked into the room. 594 00:46:35,771 --> 00:46:37,036 - Had you been drinking? - No. 595 00:46:37,036 --> 00:46:39,973 - [audience laughs] - [audience member] Too funny. 596 00:46:42,712 --> 00:46:44,483 - [Grosse] Ah, hello, Uri. - Oh, hello, Maurice. 597 00:46:44,483 --> 00:46:46,276 - How are you? Nice to see you. - Hi, how are you? 598 00:46:46,276 --> 00:46:48,322 - Lovely to see you. - You’re filming, huh? 599 00:46:48,322 --> 00:46:49,356 - [Grosse] Yes. - Come on in. 600 00:46:49,356 --> 00:46:50,984 - [Uri] Ready? - [Grosse] Yes. 601 00:46:50,984 --> 00:46:53,855 - [Uri] Ta-da-da-da. - Oh, my God. [chuckles] 602 00:46:55,527 --> 00:46:57,122 [Grosse] Oh, goodness me. 603 00:46:57,122 --> 00:46:59,531 [Uri] 5,000 bent spoons and forks on it. 604 00:46:59,531 --> 00:47:02,798 Many of them were bent with my abilities, my powers. 605 00:47:02,798 --> 00:47:03,898 [Grosse] Oh, heavens. 606 00:47:03,898 --> 00:47:05,801 [Uri] See, it brought a smile on your face. 607 00:47:05,801 --> 00:47:09,607 [Grosse chuckles] I’ll say. I’ll say. 608 00:47:11,411 --> 00:47:17,351 Whatever we know about life, about the world, 609 00:47:17,351 --> 00:47:20,387 um, we still haven’t cracked it. 610 00:47:20,387 --> 00:47:21,652 [Grosse] Here we go. 611 00:47:21,652 --> 00:47:27,152 [Grant] There’s still things that we-- we probably won’t ever find out. 612 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,529 Dad tried to find out. 613 00:47:30,529 --> 00:47:36,370 He was a lovely-- He was a lovely dad. He was a lovely dad. 614 00:47:37,932 --> 00:47:43,377 [Janet] And though the case was over, he used to come once a month. 615 00:47:43,377 --> 00:47:45,742 This evening should be very interesting indeed. 616 00:47:45,742 --> 00:47:48,646 I’m going to see Margaret and her mother, 617 00:47:48,646 --> 00:47:54,487 of the Enfield poltergeist case, now nearly 18 years ago. 618 00:47:54,685 --> 00:47:58,524 He’d have, um, boxes of Maltesers for us each. 619 00:47:58,524 --> 00:48:04,860 Well, here I am at this, uh, famous house, uh, in Enfield. 620 00:48:04,860 --> 00:48:08,160 And, uh, here you see 621 00:48:09,359 --> 00:48:10,833 Margaret and her mother. 622 00:48:10,833 --> 00:48:13,968 [Janet] He’d talk to my mum. She would make him a cup of tea, 623 00:48:13,968 --> 00:48:17,642 and he would ask how she’s been and how we all are. 624 00:48:17,642 --> 00:48:19,512 [Grosse] You remember the day I first came? 625 00:48:19,512 --> 00:48:22,339 - Yes, I remember, Mr. Grosse. - Yeah, we do remember that, Mr. Grosse. 626 00:48:22,339 --> 00:48:25,144 - And you was on the case ever since then. - Yeah. 627 00:48:25,144 --> 00:48:26,486 [Janet] You know, it wasn’t like, 628 00:48:26,486 --> 00:48:28,686 "Now the poltergeist is finished, 629 00:48:28,686 --> 00:48:30,347 I’m just not gonna come." 630 00:48:30,347 --> 00:48:31,282 He made the effort, 631 00:48:31,282 --> 00:48:36,155 and he continued to be like a family friend as well. 632 00:48:43,866 --> 00:48:49,069 [Margaret] I used to go back regularly just to look at that house. 633 00:48:49,971 --> 00:48:54,679 About two years ago, we went in the car, and my husband drove us. 634 00:48:54,679 --> 00:48:58,848 We got the feeling no one was really in there. 635 00:48:58,848 --> 00:49:03,182 We just had a look, and then all this flashing started in the living room. 636 00:49:03,182 --> 00:49:08,462 All the lights started going on and off, flashing on and off. 637 00:49:09,793 --> 00:49:16,195 I felt like maybe something had recognized me. 638 00:49:24,907 --> 00:49:27,272 I don’t wanna go back there now. 639 00:49:29,142 --> 00:49:31,375 I don’t wanna go back there. 640 00:49:43,288 --> 00:49:48,700 [Janet] I was glad to get out of there. I left home as soon as I could. 641 00:49:52,033 --> 00:49:53,804 [Peggy] Where is she? 642 00:49:54,035 --> 00:49:58,138 - [overlapping tape recorder chatter] - [Peggy speaks indistinctly] 643 00:49:58,138 --> 00:50:02,582 [Janet] It’s something that n-not many people experience. 644 00:50:02,582 --> 00:50:05,882 - [Grosse speaks indistinctly] - [Janet] And I’ve had to get strong 645 00:50:05,882 --> 00:50:10,117 from a pretty early age and build on that. 646 00:50:10,689 --> 00:50:12,119 [Grosse] Try-Try and explain to me... 647 00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:14,825 [child Janet, distorted] I was in bed, right... 648 00:50:16,321 --> 00:50:21,535 [Janet] It used to upset me when they used to say, "Oh, she’s faking it." 649 00:50:22,701 --> 00:50:25,033 [child Janet] Like this. Like this. 650 00:50:25,033 --> 00:50:29,103 [Janet] I know what I experienced, and I know that it was real. 651 00:50:29,103 --> 00:50:32,469 - [Grosse speaks indistinctly] - [child Janet] Yeah. 652 00:50:32,469 --> 00:50:37,441 [Janet] It had such a devastating effect on me. 653 00:50:38,915 --> 00:50:40,719 I’ve never really said this to anyone, 654 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,756 but you never really feel completely yourself. 655 00:50:44,756 --> 00:50:47,858 What is "myself," you know? 656 00:51:15,512 --> 00:51:18,119 It’s something you never forget. 657 00:51:27,667 --> 00:51:29,064 Something that you’ll just think of, 658 00:51:29,064 --> 00:51:31,495 and it’ll just come flowing back, you know? 659 00:51:31,495 --> 00:51:34,267 You never feel like you’re free of it. 660 00:51:54,023 --> 00:51:59,259 I don’t like to say this, you know, but I feel it even now. 661 00:52:03,032 --> 00:52:05,265 It’s never left me. 662 00:52:36,197 --> 00:52:40,069 ["I Love the Sound of Breaking Glass" playing]