1 00:00:02,611 --> 00:00:04,569 - Suddenly, you went from this cattle issue 2 00:00:04,656 --> 00:00:06,354 to you have somebody in overpass with a scoped, 3 00:00:06,441 --> 00:00:09,313 high-powered rifle pointing it at a federal agent. 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:10,880 They think the federal government doesn't have 5 00:00:10,967 --> 00:00:13,187 the right to own land. 6 00:00:13,274 --> 00:00:14,318 - They just beat the U.S. government. 7 00:00:19,541 --> 00:00:22,500 - We're not going to fall into the same trap 8 00:00:22,587 --> 00:00:23,762 that happened in Bunkerville. 9 00:00:24,894 --> 00:00:26,678 - The Hammonds were convicted of lighting 10 00:00:26,765 --> 00:00:29,246 a fire that spread to federal land 11 00:00:29,333 --> 00:00:32,293 in protest over cattle grazing rights. 12 00:00:32,380 --> 00:00:35,470 - The Hammonds were supposed to report to prison. 13 00:00:35,557 --> 00:00:37,602 The Bundys, they were going to go protect them. 14 00:00:37,689 --> 00:00:39,213 - We need you to bring your arms 15 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:40,997 and we need you to come to the Malheur 16 00:00:41,084 --> 00:00:44,261 National Wildlife Refuge. 17 00:00:44,348 --> 00:00:47,177 - We didn't exactly know who all is there, 18 00:00:47,264 --> 00:00:49,701 how many are there, who do they represent? 19 00:00:49,788 --> 00:00:51,442 - FBI, you can bring your freaking guns 20 00:00:51,529 --> 00:00:53,792 and put a freaking bullet right here. 21 00:00:53,879 --> 00:00:55,490 Put a bullet right here. 22 00:00:55,577 --> 00:00:57,622 I'll take that first bullet, you disgusting, filthy-- 23 00:00:57,709 --> 00:01:01,365 - The folks at the refuge said if we can kidnap an FBI agent, 24 00:01:01,452 --> 00:01:03,150 we can end this on our terms. 25 00:01:03,237 --> 00:01:06,066 - They put armed men in a 100-foot 26 00:01:06,153 --> 00:01:08,676 fire tower with sniper rifles. 27 00:01:08,764 --> 00:01:12,594 They took fire practice, practiced with their firearms. 28 00:01:12,681 --> 00:01:15,988 [gunfire] 29 00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:17,294 - Who's going to show up? 30 00:01:17,381 --> 00:01:20,297 And do tensions boil over into one bad moment? 31 00:01:20,384 --> 00:01:21,951 - All you military that's been fighting 32 00:01:22,038 --> 00:01:23,692 for your country overseas, 33 00:01:23,779 --> 00:01:26,129 you can fight for your country right here in America. 34 00:01:26,216 --> 00:01:27,870 Get here! Get some! 35 00:01:27,957 --> 00:01:29,698 - Block that front. Guard the front. 36 00:01:29,785 --> 00:01:31,830 [dramatic music] 37 00:01:31,917 --> 00:01:35,051 - In the FBI, we make a lot of headlines. 38 00:01:35,138 --> 00:01:38,009 ♪ ♪ 39 00:01:38,098 --> 00:01:39,664 Drug busts, 40 00:01:39,751 --> 00:01:42,450 mob stings, 41 00:01:42,537 --> 00:01:44,191 terrorist takedowns. 42 00:01:44,277 --> 00:01:46,366 - Get down! Get down! 43 00:01:46,454 --> 00:01:48,586 - We understand why people want to tell stories about us. 44 00:01:48,673 --> 00:01:49,587 - Mark it. 45 00:01:49,674 --> 00:01:51,241 - Freeze! - FBI. 46 00:01:51,328 --> 00:01:52,938 - FBI! - Action! 47 00:01:53,025 --> 00:01:54,810 - But they don't know the half of it. 48 00:01:54,896 --> 00:01:56,551 [indistinct radio chatter] 49 00:01:56,638 --> 00:01:58,727 What really goes down, 50 00:01:58,814 --> 00:02:00,990 we save that for each other 51 00:02:01,077 --> 00:02:03,035 when we're talking agent-to-agent. 52 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:05,908 ♪ ♪ 53 00:02:05,995 --> 00:02:09,172 This is "FBI True." 54 00:02:13,655 --> 00:02:16,571 [twangy guitar music] 55 00:02:16,658 --> 00:02:18,268 ♪ ♪ 56 00:02:18,355 --> 00:02:21,445 - Saturday morning, good college football weekend. 57 00:02:21,532 --> 00:02:23,273 I was done with my coffee and everything. 58 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,145 I was ready to start watching football because out there, 59 00:02:25,232 --> 00:02:26,537 it starts at 9:00 a.m. 60 00:02:26,624 --> 00:02:30,541 The ASAC calls me and gives me a brief rundown. 61 00:02:30,628 --> 00:02:32,848 Says the people that were in Burns, some of them 62 00:02:32,935 --> 00:02:35,633 went to take over a federal refuge. 63 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:37,983 So go ahead and pack your bag and start heading that way. 64 00:02:40,508 --> 00:02:43,598 Three hours later, I'm pulling into Bend. 65 00:02:43,685 --> 00:02:45,861 - But while this is going on, while we're 66 00:02:45,948 --> 00:02:49,038 mustering our resources, the Bundys are doing the same. 67 00:02:49,125 --> 00:02:52,215 We have determined who the leadership is. 68 00:02:52,302 --> 00:02:57,133 That is Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, 69 00:02:57,220 --> 00:03:02,269 Ryan Payne, and LaVoy Finicum. 70 00:03:02,356 --> 00:03:03,879 - We need you to bring your arms 71 00:03:03,966 --> 00:03:05,794 and we need you to come to the Malheur 72 00:03:05,881 --> 00:03:07,622 National Wildlife Refuge. 73 00:03:07,709 --> 00:03:13,758 - If you wait for legal means, you will wait forever. 74 00:03:13,845 --> 00:03:16,108 - They're not allowed to own on the land that it's on. 75 00:03:16,196 --> 00:03:17,806 They're not allowed to have those buildings there. 76 00:03:17,893 --> 00:03:20,461 ♪ ♪ 77 00:03:20,548 --> 00:03:23,681 That administrative agency shouldn't even exist. 78 00:03:23,768 --> 00:03:24,900 They're unconstitutional. 79 00:03:24,987 --> 00:03:27,685 - I think that you're sitting on seeing 80 00:03:27,772 --> 00:03:32,473 the cusp of a major, a major dynamic shift in this country. 81 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,563 That's why you're seeing the uptick in the saber-rattling 82 00:03:35,650 --> 00:03:39,349 from the feds, because they do not want to let go of this. 83 00:03:39,436 --> 00:03:44,049 They do not intend on losing here. 84 00:03:44,136 --> 00:03:46,269 And we do not intend giving it back to them. 85 00:03:46,356 --> 00:03:48,793 ♪ ♪ 86 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,448 - They set up at the refuge with the intent 87 00:03:51,535 --> 00:03:54,103 of holding it and expecting that at some time, 88 00:03:54,190 --> 00:03:56,148 someone may try to dislodge them from there. 89 00:03:56,236 --> 00:03:57,672 - And they are looking at a moment, 90 00:03:57,759 --> 00:03:59,848 for a lot of these groups, where they can say, 91 00:03:59,935 --> 00:04:02,329 this is the federal government we're fighting. 92 00:04:02,416 --> 00:04:04,896 I mean, they're looking, they're spoiling for that. 93 00:04:04,983 --> 00:04:08,291 - We didn't exactly know who all is there, 94 00:04:08,378 --> 00:04:10,685 how many are there, who do they represent? 95 00:04:10,772 --> 00:04:13,470 How many are ardent Bundy supporters? 96 00:04:13,557 --> 00:04:15,733 How many are there for their own personal cause? 97 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:20,042 We're doing the best we can to generate this intelligence. 98 00:04:20,129 --> 00:04:24,351 Our three goals were, one, resolve the standoff 99 00:04:24,438 --> 00:04:27,528 peacefully, return it to the control 100 00:04:27,615 --> 00:04:30,270 of the federal government, and to hold those accountable 101 00:04:30,357 --> 00:04:32,750 who had taken these actions. 102 00:04:32,837 --> 00:04:35,362 All of those were informed by what happened before, 103 00:04:35,449 --> 00:04:37,929 but we had to hold those people accountable 104 00:04:38,016 --> 00:04:40,976 because we couldn't have them walking around saying, 105 00:04:41,063 --> 00:04:42,325 nobody touched me. 106 00:04:42,412 --> 00:04:43,761 - Again-- - We did this and yeah. 107 00:04:43,848 --> 00:04:45,502 - Yeah. 108 00:04:45,589 --> 00:04:46,982 - When that social media call goes out 109 00:04:47,069 --> 00:04:48,418 to the various militias, 110 00:04:48,505 --> 00:04:50,507 you have five major militias show up. 111 00:04:50,594 --> 00:04:52,422 [dramatic music] 112 00:04:52,509 --> 00:04:55,947 And they formed a group called the Pacific 113 00:04:56,034 --> 00:04:57,297 Patriot Network, PPN. 114 00:04:57,384 --> 00:04:59,342 - And these aren't just, you know, 115 00:04:59,429 --> 00:05:01,736 five and six guys that go out and shoot guns on the weekends. 116 00:05:01,823 --> 00:05:03,346 - Mm-hmm. - Right? 117 00:05:03,433 --> 00:05:05,000 These are organized. They have regular trainings. 118 00:05:05,087 --> 00:05:06,131 They're paramilitary. 119 00:05:06,218 --> 00:05:08,612 [guns clicking] 120 00:05:08,699 --> 00:05:11,398 - I don't know any other way to describe what happened 121 00:05:11,485 --> 00:05:15,184 to the Hammond family other than I 122 00:05:15,271 --> 00:05:16,272 don't understand what country we live in 123 00:05:16,359 --> 00:05:17,273 when it comes to that. 124 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,231 - They were playing soldier. 125 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:22,757 That's why when you see them walking around town, again, 126 00:05:22,844 --> 00:05:25,629 with their bulletproof vests, their long arms, 127 00:05:25,716 --> 00:05:28,197 their sidearms, their extra magazines, 128 00:05:28,284 --> 00:05:30,286 that is intended to intimidate-- 129 00:05:30,373 --> 00:05:31,809 - Absolutely. - --and to coerce 130 00:05:31,896 --> 00:05:33,158 and to influence. 131 00:05:33,245 --> 00:05:35,030 - This is what U.S. military generally 132 00:05:35,117 --> 00:05:37,075 are going to be trained in some type of format 133 00:05:37,162 --> 00:05:38,860 with this type of weapon. 134 00:05:38,947 --> 00:05:40,688 - I remember one of my first mornings, 135 00:05:40,775 --> 00:05:43,995 at the Best Western in Burns, going down to breakfast. 136 00:05:44,082 --> 00:05:47,608 Half the hotel was militia and half the hotel 137 00:05:47,695 --> 00:05:49,697 was FBI or Oregon State Police, 138 00:05:49,784 --> 00:05:52,482 all descending upon the breakfast room. 139 00:05:52,569 --> 00:05:55,006 And it was surreal because you would walk down the hallways 140 00:05:55,093 --> 00:05:58,096 and you'd see somebody and they may be all Carhartted up, 141 00:05:58,183 --> 00:06:01,012 long beard, and, you know, both giving each other 142 00:06:01,099 --> 00:06:02,449 the north-south, kind of figuring 143 00:06:02,536 --> 00:06:03,841 out which side you were on. 144 00:06:03,928 --> 00:06:05,626 - They would follow us. 145 00:06:05,713 --> 00:06:07,454 You would leave the command post, head back to the hotel, 146 00:06:07,541 --> 00:06:09,891 and a car would follow you. 147 00:06:09,978 --> 00:06:14,722 There were so many guns in town that the bosses put out 148 00:06:14,809 --> 00:06:18,769 the edict that nobody that is not carrying a weapon 149 00:06:18,856 --> 00:06:20,292 can be out by themselves. 150 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:22,294 So they have to be escorted by agents. 151 00:06:22,382 --> 00:06:25,210 - Burns became sort of a civil war, a hearts-and-minds 152 00:06:25,297 --> 00:06:27,256 campaign for that populace. 153 00:06:27,343 --> 00:06:29,693 - And it divided a number of families. 154 00:06:29,780 --> 00:06:30,868 - As it still does. 155 00:06:30,955 --> 00:06:32,479 - Yeah. - Yeah, and it still does. 156 00:06:32,566 --> 00:06:35,351 - One evening we're at the gym, the high school gym, 157 00:06:35,438 --> 00:06:37,266 in walks Ammon Bundy. 158 00:06:37,353 --> 00:06:40,269 [ominous music] 159 00:06:40,356 --> 00:06:41,575 ♪ ♪ 160 00:06:41,662 --> 00:06:43,011 His bodyguard. 161 00:06:43,098 --> 00:06:44,752 Several other members. 162 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,971 And they went to the four corners of the gym. 163 00:06:47,058 --> 00:06:54,109 ♪ ♪ 164 00:06:58,766 --> 00:07:01,943 And they, of course, left a group outside 165 00:07:02,030 --> 00:07:04,380 of armed escorts as well. 166 00:07:04,467 --> 00:07:05,947 And it's a whole community meeting, 167 00:07:06,034 --> 00:07:07,949 and it's, again, the community there are telling the Bundys 168 00:07:08,036 --> 00:07:10,517 and militia members, go home. 169 00:07:10,604 --> 00:07:12,562 You know, we don't want you here anymore. 170 00:07:22,354 --> 00:07:25,575 [cheers and applause] 171 00:07:25,662 --> 00:07:27,359 - People are happy you've raised issues, 172 00:07:27,447 --> 00:07:29,231 but they say it's time for you to leave, 173 00:07:29,318 --> 00:07:30,406 what do you say to that? 174 00:07:30,493 --> 00:07:33,322 - Well, I just barely met with three 175 00:07:33,409 --> 00:07:36,325 ranchers that asked me not to. 176 00:07:36,412 --> 00:07:38,980 And-- and that seems to be, at least 177 00:07:39,067 --> 00:07:41,156 flowing through these doors, has been the message. 178 00:07:41,243 --> 00:07:44,594 - We often would get comments, why don't you arrest them here? 179 00:07:44,681 --> 00:07:46,814 People would be pointing, arrest them now. 180 00:07:46,901 --> 00:07:50,687 Well, this tension would rise almost daily when we'd 181 00:07:50,774 --> 00:07:56,345 see Ammon Bundy in one part of town, 182 00:07:56,432 --> 00:08:01,350 or we'd his brother, Ryan, somewhere else. 183 00:08:01,437 --> 00:08:04,092 And we knew we could arrest them. 184 00:08:04,179 --> 00:08:07,617 But if we did that and left a-- you know, a core of leadership 185 00:08:07,704 --> 00:08:09,663 back on the refuge, that would just 186 00:08:09,750 --> 00:08:11,186 be an escalation point again. 187 00:08:11,273 --> 00:08:13,362 We went through that calculus regularly. 188 00:08:13,449 --> 00:08:14,406 - Daily. 189 00:08:14,494 --> 00:08:15,843 If this, then this. - Right. 190 00:08:15,930 --> 00:08:17,627 - If we do this, does it raise or lower 191 00:08:17,714 --> 00:08:19,673 the temperature on the refuge? 192 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,413 - You take him now, he's got his 193 00:08:21,501 --> 00:08:24,460 rallying cry for those left back at the refuge. 194 00:08:24,547 --> 00:08:26,723 - Exactly. - So we didn't. 195 00:08:26,810 --> 00:08:28,508 [dramatic music] 196 00:08:28,595 --> 00:08:29,683 - So what are some of the fears we're 197 00:08:29,770 --> 00:08:31,989 dealing with at this point? 198 00:08:32,076 --> 00:08:33,556 - When they first got there, we knew 199 00:08:33,643 --> 00:08:36,951 they put armed men in a 100-foot 200 00:08:37,038 --> 00:08:40,998 fire tower with sniper rifles. 201 00:08:41,085 --> 00:08:44,393 You can take a shot from anywhere in a 360-degree 202 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,614 circle and be effective. 203 00:08:47,701 --> 00:08:50,878 They put heavy equipment on one road coming in and out. 204 00:08:50,965 --> 00:08:53,358 On the back side, they put highway barriers 205 00:08:53,445 --> 00:08:56,492 in a sawtooth formation to give them the opportunity to shoot 206 00:08:56,579 --> 00:08:57,493 in multiple directions. 207 00:08:57,580 --> 00:08:59,190 They had armed patrols that were 208 00:08:59,277 --> 00:08:59,887 going around the perimeter. 209 00:08:59,974 --> 00:09:03,804 ♪ ♪ 210 00:09:03,891 --> 00:09:08,025 They took fire practice and practiced with their firearms. 211 00:09:08,112 --> 00:09:13,161 [gunfire] 212 00:09:13,248 --> 00:09:16,338 They were set up in a defensive perimeter, 213 00:09:16,425 --> 00:09:19,907 in a defensive situation in order to, in their words, 214 00:09:19,994 --> 00:09:21,909 repel any attack that might come. 215 00:09:21,996 --> 00:09:23,693 ♪ ♪ 216 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:25,608 - We don't know who's up on those towers, 217 00:09:25,695 --> 00:09:26,957 but we knew their capabilities. 218 00:09:27,044 --> 00:09:28,132 We knew that weapons they had. 219 00:09:28,219 --> 00:09:28,916 We knew that standoff ranges. 220 00:09:29,003 --> 00:09:31,135 ♪ ♪ 221 00:09:31,222 --> 00:09:34,878 One thing, too, that we heard often out there, 222 00:09:34,965 --> 00:09:38,055 you would hear the phrase, "No free Wacos," 223 00:09:38,142 --> 00:09:42,059 meaning that they saw that events at Waco had transpired 224 00:09:42,146 --> 00:09:46,107 and the horrific loss of life, but this time around, 225 00:09:46,194 --> 00:09:48,326 they were going to exact as good as they got. 226 00:09:48,413 --> 00:09:50,024 And so it was very much of a warning 227 00:09:50,111 --> 00:09:53,680 of what they intended to do to the federal government 228 00:09:53,767 --> 00:09:55,029 and the FBI. 229 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:56,596 [hawk screeching] 230 00:09:56,683 --> 00:09:59,250 As the days went on, we wanted to wait them out 231 00:09:59,337 --> 00:10:02,514 with no loss of life, but you realize the more and more 232 00:10:02,602 --> 00:10:05,213 folks, especially from the other side, that could come in, 233 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:07,084 wild cards. - Right. 234 00:10:07,171 --> 00:10:09,086 - And something-- the longer we went on in trying 235 00:10:09,173 --> 00:10:11,436 to wait them out, it also introduced who's going 236 00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:15,397 to show up and do tensions boil over into one bad moment? 237 00:10:15,484 --> 00:10:18,400 And then you've got something entirely different. 238 00:10:18,487 --> 00:10:22,317 - And it was a very deliberate decision on our part 239 00:10:22,404 --> 00:10:27,975 to use Sheriff Ward 240 00:10:28,062 --> 00:10:30,194 as the intermediary with the militia, 241 00:10:30,281 --> 00:10:31,282 understanding them as we do, 242 00:10:31,369 --> 00:10:34,068 where they recognize the sheriff 243 00:10:34,155 --> 00:10:36,940 is the only recognized law enforcement officer. 244 00:10:37,027 --> 00:10:40,378 Every time he went out to meet with the Bundys, 245 00:10:40,465 --> 00:10:42,598 he would deliver the message. 246 00:10:42,685 --> 00:10:44,295 And it's coming from someone that they 247 00:10:44,382 --> 00:10:46,515 proclaim all the time as the recognized 248 00:10:46,602 --> 00:10:48,125 law enforcement officer. 249 00:10:48,212 --> 00:10:49,692 - And it would send that powerful message 250 00:10:49,779 --> 00:10:52,739 that this isn't Bundy versus the federal government. 251 00:10:52,826 --> 00:10:54,871 This is Bundy against the people of Burns, 252 00:10:54,958 --> 00:10:58,005 against elected law enforcement, the sheriffs, 253 00:10:58,092 --> 00:11:01,138 state and local law enforcement throughout the state. 254 00:11:01,225 --> 00:11:04,402 - And they knew we were doing this, and it was bugging them. 255 00:11:04,489 --> 00:11:08,058 And they were regularly making requests through negotiators 256 00:11:08,145 --> 00:11:10,539 and others to speak with me, to speak with Eric, 257 00:11:10,626 --> 00:11:13,237 to speak with someone in charge. 258 00:11:13,324 --> 00:11:15,805 Well, we refused those requests. 259 00:11:15,892 --> 00:11:18,590 We knew they were looking for a federal presence 260 00:11:18,678 --> 00:11:20,070 to push up against. 261 00:11:20,157 --> 00:11:21,942 - FBI, you can bring your freaking guns 262 00:11:22,029 --> 00:11:24,509 and put a freaking bullet right here. 263 00:11:24,596 --> 00:11:26,033 Put a bullet right here. 264 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:27,512 I'll take that first bullet, you disgusting, 265 00:11:27,599 --> 00:11:29,601 filthy, freaking-- oh! 266 00:11:29,689 --> 00:11:32,604 - And that was something we weren't going to give. 267 00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:35,303 [dramatic music] 268 00:11:35,390 --> 00:11:38,001 [tense music] 269 00:11:38,088 --> 00:11:43,441 ♪ ♪ 270 00:11:43,528 --> 00:11:45,400 - So they took the refuge over. 271 00:11:45,487 --> 00:11:48,098 They had guards set up. 272 00:11:48,185 --> 00:11:50,405 ♪ ♪ 273 00:11:50,492 --> 00:11:51,798 They had a sniper in the tower. 274 00:11:51,885 --> 00:11:54,409 ♪ ♪ 275 00:11:54,496 --> 00:11:55,802 They had roadblocks set up. 276 00:11:55,889 --> 00:11:57,629 But they were also encouraging people 277 00:11:57,717 --> 00:11:58,587 from Burns to come visit them. 278 00:11:58,674 --> 00:11:59,588 Come see. 279 00:11:59,675 --> 00:12:01,111 And bring me food, you know? 280 00:12:01,198 --> 00:12:02,634 - [indistinct]. - Yeah. 281 00:12:02,722 --> 00:12:03,461 - There was some kind of like-- - Oh, they-- 282 00:12:03,548 --> 00:12:04,462 - They were eating like kings. 283 00:12:04,549 --> 00:12:06,421 - Barbecued pork, man. 284 00:12:06,508 --> 00:12:07,683 And chicken enchiladas. 285 00:12:07,770 --> 00:12:09,293 - Yes! 286 00:12:09,380 --> 00:12:12,514 - They were sending out requests for food and underwear 287 00:12:12,601 --> 00:12:16,300 and you name it. 288 00:12:16,387 --> 00:12:19,216 - So the building out there is not-- it's not a shed. 289 00:12:19,303 --> 00:12:21,523 - No. - They have living quarters. 290 00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:26,093 They have washers and dryers, showers, full kitchens. 291 00:12:26,180 --> 00:12:29,531 - These buildings are very symbolic. 292 00:12:29,618 --> 00:12:31,054 They're a bunch of rock buildings 293 00:12:31,141 --> 00:12:33,970 35 miles away from nowhere, but they're symbolic. 294 00:12:34,057 --> 00:12:35,450 We're holding this. 295 00:12:35,537 --> 00:12:37,974 It's been the federal government's fortress, 296 00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:39,759 their-- their castle. 297 00:12:39,846 --> 00:12:41,325 And we're holding it. 298 00:12:41,412 --> 00:12:43,458 We shall not give it up to them, ever. 299 00:12:43,545 --> 00:12:46,417 - And, you know, the governor is telling me, 300 00:12:46,504 --> 00:12:47,854 we've got to do something. 301 00:12:47,941 --> 00:12:49,725 ♪ ♪ 302 00:12:49,812 --> 00:12:52,119 The town's nerves are fraying. 303 00:12:55,644 --> 00:12:56,993 - They're not from here. 304 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,082 We don't want them here. We want them to go home. 305 00:12:59,169 --> 00:13:01,171 all: Go home! Go home! 306 00:13:01,258 --> 00:13:02,956 - Militia, go home! 307 00:13:03,043 --> 00:13:05,436 - There's no end in sight to this occupation. 308 00:13:05,523 --> 00:13:07,699 - How long will you stay? 309 00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:09,310 - As long as it's necessary. 310 00:13:09,397 --> 00:13:11,355 - This contest is just beginning. 311 00:13:11,442 --> 00:13:13,575 But we will not stop. 312 00:13:13,662 --> 00:13:14,576 We will not back down. 313 00:13:14,663 --> 00:13:16,012 - We've got to do something. 314 00:13:16,099 --> 00:13:17,709 Time was running out. 315 00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:20,016 - All you military that's been fighting for your country 316 00:13:20,103 --> 00:13:22,366 overseas, you can fight for your country 317 00:13:22,453 --> 00:13:23,585 right here in America. 318 00:13:23,672 --> 00:13:25,456 Get here, get some! 319 00:13:25,543 --> 00:13:29,199 - The folks at the refuge said if we can kidnap an FBI agent, 320 00:13:29,286 --> 00:13:31,158 we can end this on our terms. 321 00:13:31,245 --> 00:13:32,507 - ♪ What are you going to do when the militia ♪ 322 00:13:32,594 --> 00:13:35,118 ♪ Comes after you, FBI? ♪ 323 00:13:35,205 --> 00:13:38,730 ♪ ♪ 324 00:13:42,343 --> 00:13:44,171 [tense music] 325 00:13:44,258 --> 00:13:48,784 - You can feel the pressure building on both sides. 326 00:13:48,871 --> 00:13:49,698 We're still getting intelligence 327 00:13:49,785 --> 00:13:51,178 from inside the refuge. 328 00:13:51,265 --> 00:13:52,962 ♪ ♪ 329 00:13:53,049 --> 00:13:54,529 - Pressure was building. 330 00:13:54,616 --> 00:13:56,444 There's an action imperative. 331 00:13:56,531 --> 00:13:57,662 We even start feeling like, we've got to do something. 332 00:13:57,749 --> 00:14:05,932 ♪ ♪ 333 00:14:06,019 --> 00:14:09,849 - Here we have this video of an interview with Finicum. 334 00:14:09,936 --> 00:14:11,198 - Better dead than in a cell. 335 00:14:11,285 --> 00:14:13,983 - Absolutely. 336 00:14:14,070 --> 00:14:15,593 Dude, would you like to be in the cell? 337 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,508 Nobody wants to live their-- 338 00:14:17,595 --> 00:14:19,293 live their life in a cell. 339 00:14:19,380 --> 00:14:22,209 Absolutely I'm not going to live my life in a cell. 340 00:14:22,296 --> 00:14:23,514 - Yeah. 341 00:14:23,601 --> 00:14:25,473 I remember when the-- 342 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,911 the team in the command post that was watching social media, 343 00:14:28,998 --> 00:14:31,871 the news, et cetera, brought that to our attention. 344 00:14:31,958 --> 00:14:34,134 And it's a bit chilling, right? 345 00:14:34,221 --> 00:14:35,396 - Absolutely. 346 00:14:35,483 --> 00:14:37,528 - It makes you understand the kind of people 347 00:14:37,615 --> 00:14:40,662 we are dealing with and their ideology 348 00:14:40,749 --> 00:14:42,838 and their motivation. 349 00:14:42,925 --> 00:14:45,580 - Through our negotiations, picked up information 350 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:50,063 that the leadership was going to head to a nearby town, 351 00:14:50,150 --> 00:14:52,326 a different county, and a county run 352 00:14:52,413 --> 00:14:54,719 by a constitutional sheriff that was 353 00:14:54,806 --> 00:14:56,156 sympathetic to their cause. 354 00:14:56,243 --> 00:14:59,420 ♪ ♪ 355 00:14:59,507 --> 00:15:03,337 So our fear was that they-- he would allow them to take 356 00:15:03,424 --> 00:15:06,340 over another federal property in his county, 357 00:15:06,427 --> 00:15:07,950 thus dividing us. 358 00:15:08,037 --> 00:15:10,257 We set out on a mission of negotiations 359 00:15:10,344 --> 00:15:14,000 to determine when and who's going to be in the car. 360 00:15:14,087 --> 00:15:16,132 And there's only one way to get there. 361 00:15:16,219 --> 00:15:17,873 You've got to go through a mountain pass. 362 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,269 - Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne, and LaVoy Finicum 363 00:15:22,356 --> 00:15:25,141 all were going to travel to this meeting in John Day. 364 00:15:25,228 --> 00:15:28,666 ♪ ♪ 365 00:15:28,753 --> 00:15:30,668 And we knew when they were going to leave, 366 00:15:30,755 --> 00:15:32,888 we knew that cars they were going to drive, 367 00:15:32,975 --> 00:15:36,109 and we knew the time that the rally was scheduled. 368 00:15:36,196 --> 00:15:40,200 And with that information, we came up with an operations plan 369 00:15:40,287 --> 00:15:43,551 that would allow us to effect an arrest 370 00:15:43,638 --> 00:15:48,251 of the entire leadership of the occupation in one fell swoop. 371 00:15:48,338 --> 00:15:51,472 We had a team of OSP, the Oregon State Police, 372 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:54,475 and HRT operators that had specifically 373 00:15:54,562 --> 00:15:57,608 selected the location where this would happen. 374 00:15:57,695 --> 00:16:01,525 And it was in an area in the mountain pass 375 00:16:01,612 --> 00:16:03,049 where there was no cell coverage. 376 00:16:03,136 --> 00:16:05,094 Because you got to remember, these guys 377 00:16:05,181 --> 00:16:09,272 are heading to John Day to meet with sympathetic people. 378 00:16:09,359 --> 00:16:11,231 There's a whole group of sympathetic people 379 00:16:11,318 --> 00:16:12,536 back in Burns. 380 00:16:12,623 --> 00:16:14,843 So we don't want them calling for help 381 00:16:14,930 --> 00:16:17,324 and having both sides of the road 382 00:16:17,411 --> 00:16:19,456 filled with militia members coming to their support. 383 00:16:19,543 --> 00:16:20,501 - And now it's on. 384 00:16:20,588 --> 00:16:22,068 - And now it's on. 385 00:16:22,155 --> 00:16:24,505 I can remember standing in the command post 386 00:16:24,592 --> 00:16:28,378 as we're watching these cars live 387 00:16:28,465 --> 00:16:30,293 drive down the road. 388 00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:34,471 ♪ ♪ 389 00:16:34,558 --> 00:16:37,605 And when the car that Ammon Bundy was in 390 00:16:37,692 --> 00:16:41,652 passed the spot where OSP and FBI HRT had staged-- 391 00:16:44,177 --> 00:16:46,092 --you can see them pulling out, 392 00:16:46,179 --> 00:16:49,399 and we were able to arrest Ammon Bundy 393 00:16:49,486 --> 00:16:51,097 and the occupants of his car without incident. 394 00:16:51,184 --> 00:16:57,320 ♪ ♪ 395 00:16:57,407 --> 00:17:01,324 As the second team approached a car that was driven by LaVoy 396 00:17:01,411 --> 00:17:04,588 Finicum, a standoff occurred. 397 00:17:04,675 --> 00:17:07,678 - Who are you? - Who are you? 398 00:17:07,765 --> 00:17:10,159 Who are you? 399 00:17:13,989 --> 00:17:16,948 - And then he engages in a drawn-out conversation with 400 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:20,300 the officers and agents, basically saying, "You're going 401 00:17:20,387 --> 00:17:21,344 "to have to shoot me. 402 00:17:21,431 --> 00:17:22,693 I'm going to John Day." 403 00:17:22,780 --> 00:17:23,912 - You shoot me. 404 00:17:23,999 --> 00:17:25,740 I'm going to meet the sheriff. 405 00:17:25,827 --> 00:17:27,436 The sheriff is waiting for us. 406 00:17:27,523 --> 00:17:29,744 So you do as you damn well please, 407 00:17:29,831 --> 00:17:31,746 but I'm not going anywhere. 408 00:17:31,833 --> 00:17:36,925 Here I am right there, right there, put a bullet through it. 409 00:17:37,012 --> 00:17:38,274 You understand? 410 00:17:38,361 --> 00:17:40,015 I'm going to go meet the sheriff. 411 00:17:40,102 --> 00:17:42,322 You back down or you kill me now. 412 00:17:42,409 --> 00:17:44,150 - There was a video in the vehicle 413 00:17:44,237 --> 00:17:46,369 that LaVoy Finicum was driving, 414 00:17:46,456 --> 00:17:48,676 so we know exactly what he was saying 415 00:17:48,763 --> 00:17:50,895 at the exact time that our officers 416 00:17:50,982 --> 00:17:52,680 were engaging with him. 417 00:17:52,767 --> 00:17:55,944 They're giving him lawful orders to get out of the car, 418 00:17:56,031 --> 00:17:59,078 to show his hands, and he says, "Nope, I'm not going. 419 00:17:59,165 --> 00:18:03,560 You can go to John Day with me, but I'm not getting out." 420 00:18:03,647 --> 00:18:04,953 - It's going to get real. 421 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,563 You want my blood on your hands? 422 00:18:06,650 --> 00:18:10,437 Get it done because we got people to see and places to go. 423 00:18:10,524 --> 00:18:12,178 - And they did it because there's no service here. 424 00:18:12,265 --> 00:18:13,614 - No, they got it-- 425 00:18:13,701 --> 00:18:14,789 - --there's no service here at all. 426 00:18:14,876 --> 00:18:16,051 - We should never have stopped. 427 00:18:16,138 --> 00:18:16,878 We should never have stopped. 428 00:18:16,965 --> 00:18:18,227 - I'm going to keep going. 429 00:18:18,314 --> 00:18:19,533 - Then we're going to have to duck. 430 00:18:19,620 --> 00:18:20,751 - OK. - If we take off-- 431 00:18:20,838 --> 00:18:21,839 - And we can get right in back. 432 00:18:21,926 --> 00:18:23,014 - --shoot your tires out? 433 00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:24,015 - Most likely. 434 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:25,539 - OK, are you ready? 435 00:18:25,626 --> 00:18:26,670 - Well, where's those-- where's the guns? 436 00:18:26,757 --> 00:18:27,671 - They got us stopped. 437 00:18:27,758 --> 00:18:29,108 We can't get around him. 438 00:18:29,195 --> 00:18:30,283 I'm going to go. 439 00:18:30,370 --> 00:18:31,806 You guys ready? - OK. Get down. 440 00:18:31,893 --> 00:18:32,807 - Then you duck down. 441 00:18:32,894 --> 00:18:33,764 Give me that camera. 442 00:18:33,851 --> 00:18:35,288 OK, give me this camera. 443 00:18:35,375 --> 00:18:36,811 Go. 444 00:18:36,898 --> 00:18:38,856 - And I can remember the pit in my stomach 445 00:18:38,943 --> 00:18:42,164 when after about four minutes, 446 00:18:42,251 --> 00:18:46,168 I see the white truck that Finicum's driving dash off. 447 00:18:46,255 --> 00:18:48,866 ♪ ♪ 448 00:18:48,953 --> 00:18:50,303 - Keep going. 449 00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:51,956 - What about Ammon and those guys? 450 00:18:52,043 --> 00:18:53,132 - We can't get around him. 451 00:18:53,219 --> 00:18:54,524 I'm going to go get help. 452 00:18:54,611 --> 00:18:55,830 - And now you know the chase is on. 453 00:18:55,917 --> 00:18:59,834 ♪ ♪ 454 00:19:02,010 --> 00:19:04,055 We had set up a roadblock ahead. 455 00:19:04,143 --> 00:19:06,145 The intent was to put spikes on the road 456 00:19:06,232 --> 00:19:10,061 to disable the vehicle, but it happened so fast. 457 00:19:10,149 --> 00:19:12,499 You could just see the white truck 458 00:19:12,586 --> 00:19:19,027 winding through the mountain roads on this video. 459 00:19:19,114 --> 00:19:21,595 And as all of a sudden, the roadblock 460 00:19:21,682 --> 00:19:24,380 comes into view of the camera, 461 00:19:24,467 --> 00:19:27,209 and he's still speeding, high speed toward him. 462 00:19:27,296 --> 00:19:28,602 - Coming up fast. 463 00:19:28,689 --> 00:19:30,517 - Yeah, they are. 464 00:19:30,604 --> 00:19:33,694 - At the last second, you can see him swerve off to the left, 465 00:19:33,781 --> 00:19:37,306 and there is an HRT operator swerving around him, 466 00:19:37,393 --> 00:19:39,352 you know, to try to get out of the way of the speeding car. 467 00:19:39,439 --> 00:19:41,789 And LaVoy Finicum's truck hits a snow bank 468 00:19:41,876 --> 00:19:43,921 at a high rate of speed. 469 00:19:44,008 --> 00:19:46,185 And it looks like, from what we could see, 470 00:19:46,272 --> 00:19:48,665 that he's just plowed right over it. 471 00:19:48,752 --> 00:19:49,840 - Hang on! 472 00:19:49,927 --> 00:19:50,754 - OK, they're shooting. 473 00:19:50,841 --> 00:19:53,061 - Hang on! 474 00:19:53,148 --> 00:19:55,498 - OK, we're here. 475 00:19:55,585 --> 00:19:58,109 - Well, I thought for sure that we had 476 00:19:58,197 --> 00:19:59,459 an agent underneath that car. 477 00:19:59,546 --> 00:20:05,334 ♪ ♪ 478 00:20:05,421 --> 00:20:07,336 That car came to a hard stop. 479 00:20:07,423 --> 00:20:10,383 In fact, so much so that the camera goes way back and has 480 00:20:10,470 --> 00:20:13,473 to come back again because the car came 481 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,126 to such a dramatic stop. 482 00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:17,041 I see the driver of the car get out. 483 00:20:17,128 --> 00:20:18,347 - Go ahead and shoot me. 484 00:20:18,434 --> 00:20:19,479 [gunfire] 485 00:20:19,566 --> 00:20:22,003 - [shouting] - Go ahead and shoot me. 486 00:20:22,090 --> 00:20:23,526 - And start waving his hands. 487 00:20:23,613 --> 00:20:27,965 You can see him reach for a weapon. 488 00:20:28,052 --> 00:20:30,098 - Stay down, stay down, stay down. 489 00:20:30,185 --> 00:20:32,448 - The third time you see a reach, 490 00:20:32,535 --> 00:20:34,537 then you just see him fall over. 491 00:20:34,624 --> 00:20:35,973 [gunfire] 492 00:20:36,060 --> 00:20:37,758 - Damn it. Are they shooting him? 493 00:20:37,845 --> 00:20:39,716 Did they shoot him? 494 00:20:39,803 --> 00:20:40,674 You assholes. 495 00:20:40,761 --> 00:20:42,415 [gunfire] 496 00:20:42,502 --> 00:20:43,416 Keep your head down. 497 00:20:43,503 --> 00:20:47,028 Stay down. 498 00:20:47,115 --> 00:20:49,770 - Did they kill him? 499 00:20:49,857 --> 00:20:53,164 ♪ ♪ 500 00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:57,081 - Nobody wants to see a loss of life, but in that instance, 501 00:20:57,168 --> 00:20:58,779 he controlled his destiny. 502 00:20:58,866 --> 00:21:01,738 - Yep, he had a choice to make, and he made his choice. 503 00:21:01,825 --> 00:21:03,349 - Did they kill him? 504 00:21:03,436 --> 00:21:04,088 - I think they did, and they're shooting 505 00:21:04,175 --> 00:21:06,003 over here on this door. 506 00:21:06,090 --> 00:21:10,617 - What's even more disturbing is once LaVoy Finicum made 507 00:21:10,704 --> 00:21:12,358 his decision to not give up, 508 00:21:12,445 --> 00:21:14,316 there's still more people in that car. 509 00:21:16,275 --> 00:21:17,493 - OK. 510 00:21:17,580 --> 00:21:19,930 - And over a period of time, we have 511 00:21:20,017 --> 00:21:24,065 to get them out and ensure we get them safely 512 00:21:24,152 --> 00:21:26,197 and appropriately arrested. 513 00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:28,199 We later found out the officer 514 00:21:28,287 --> 00:21:32,116 we thought had been hit by the white truck was unharmed. 515 00:21:32,203 --> 00:21:36,382 As soon as we affected the arrests, that the negotiators 516 00:21:36,469 --> 00:21:38,340 contacted every telephone number 517 00:21:38,427 --> 00:21:39,341 we had, and I don't know how many 518 00:21:39,428 --> 00:21:40,690 hundred calls you guys made. 519 00:21:40,777 --> 00:21:42,344 - Yeah. 520 00:21:42,431 --> 00:21:44,172 Well over 100 calls in the next couple of hours. 521 00:21:44,259 --> 00:21:47,654 - To anybody that we knew was on the refuge to leave now. 522 00:21:47,741 --> 00:21:51,310 I want to make it very clear, that we'll continue to enforce 523 00:21:51,397 --> 00:21:54,443 federal law here in Harney County, 524 00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:57,707 and anybody who travels to Oregon with the intent 525 00:21:57,794 --> 00:22:00,493 of breaking the law will be held accountable 526 00:22:00,580 --> 00:22:02,451 and will be arrested. 527 00:22:02,538 --> 00:22:06,107 Illegal acts such as occupying federal property 528 00:22:06,194 --> 00:22:10,981 in a violent manner, armed, to deprive employees' or citizens' 529 00:22:11,068 --> 00:22:14,245 access to those facilities will not be tolerated 530 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:15,899 in the United States. 531 00:22:15,986 --> 00:22:18,075 I've often been asked afterwards, 532 00:22:18,162 --> 00:22:22,602 when we went through this entire 40-plus-day ordeal, 533 00:22:22,689 --> 00:22:24,647 were you successful? 534 00:22:24,734 --> 00:22:29,826 Do you think the way that the refuge occupation was handled 535 00:22:29,913 --> 00:22:31,698 was a success for the FBI? 536 00:22:31,785 --> 00:22:33,526 And I'd have to say yes. 537 00:22:33,613 --> 00:22:37,443 I would say that, did we resolve it peacefully? 538 00:22:37,530 --> 00:22:39,270 We did the best that we could. 539 00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,664 We took every effort to resolve this 540 00:22:41,751 --> 00:22:44,014 in a peaceful, bloodless way. 541 00:22:44,101 --> 00:22:47,888 Unfortunately, the bad guys get a choice, too. 542 00:22:47,975 --> 00:22:49,933 - Exactly. 543 00:22:50,020 --> 00:22:52,545 - I wish Mr. Finicum hadn't made the decisions he did. 544 00:22:52,632 --> 00:22:54,634 - Go ahead and shoot me. [gunfire] 545 00:22:54,721 --> 00:22:56,636 - But he's solely responsible for what happened. 546 00:22:56,723 --> 00:22:58,681 ♪ ♪ 547 00:22:58,768 --> 00:23:00,814 [gunfire] 548 00:23:00,901 --> 00:23:04,426 - And the fact that that was the only death in a situation 549 00:23:04,513 --> 00:23:08,735 that was very tense, no shortage of guns, 550 00:23:08,822 --> 00:23:12,173 no shortage of very strong feelings, was a success. 551 00:23:12,260 --> 00:23:15,481 - It was the first major drawn-out negotiation 552 00:23:15,568 --> 00:23:17,308 barricade with social media. 553 00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:19,398 We learned a lot from that. 554 00:23:19,485 --> 00:23:23,140 And we've been teaching those techniques to state and local 555 00:23:23,227 --> 00:23:24,446 police officers since then. 556 00:23:24,533 --> 00:23:27,884 - But I still believe that Ammon 557 00:23:27,971 --> 00:23:33,020 and Ryan and those at trial with him were held accountable. 558 00:23:33,107 --> 00:23:37,024 They will forever be associated with the occupation at Malheur. 559 00:23:37,111 --> 00:23:41,637 They will always be known as those who actions led 560 00:23:41,724 --> 00:23:44,161 to the death of their friend. 561 00:23:44,248 --> 00:23:47,904 That could have been avoided had they not done these things. 562 00:23:47,991 --> 00:23:52,213 ♪ ♪ 563 00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:55,216 [dramatic music] 564 00:23:55,303 --> 00:24:02,353 ♪ ♪