1 00:00:02,785 --> 00:00:05,918 [explosion] 2 00:00:05,962 --> 00:00:10,445 - We had seen bombings, arsons, attacks against 3 00:00:10,488 --> 00:00:13,187 women's health-care providers, against physicians. 4 00:00:13,535 --> 00:00:16,190 [reporter]: Dr. David Gunn was shot after getting out of his car 5 00:00:16,233 --> 00:00:18,801 as he came to work at the Pensacola abortion clinic. 6 00:00:20,150 --> 00:00:24,067 - I encourage you all to continue the noble work 7 00:00:24,111 --> 00:00:26,591 of supporting your local baby defenders 8 00:00:26,635 --> 00:00:28,506 from arsonists to snipers. 9 00:00:28,550 --> 00:00:33,685 - A sniper used a high-powered rifle and shot 10 00:00:33,729 --> 00:00:36,079 a women's health-care provider in Buffalo, New York. 11 00:00:36,123 --> 00:00:38,560 - And he's nowhere to be found. 12 00:00:40,605 --> 00:00:43,304 - He has used approximately 29 different aliases 13 00:00:43,347 --> 00:00:45,045 and false identification. 14 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:49,788 - He was affiliated with known abortion terrorist organizations. 15 00:00:49,832 --> 00:00:51,747 - He had a propensity for violence. 16 00:00:54,141 --> 00:00:55,446 We cannot let him off the hook. 17 00:00:56,752 --> 00:00:58,101 [man shouting]: Get back! Everybody get back! 18 00:00:58,145 --> 00:00:59,624 Let's go! - We had get him, 19 00:00:59,668 --> 00:01:01,104 we had to get him. We had to get him now. 20 00:01:01,148 --> 00:01:02,410 [explosion] - Oh my God! 21 00:01:05,891 --> 00:01:08,720 [narrator]: In the FBI, we make a lot of headlines. 22 00:01:11,506 --> 00:01:14,944 Drug busts, mob stings. 23 00:01:16,380 --> 00:01:18,469 Terrorist takedowns. 24 00:01:18,513 --> 00:01:20,123 [people shouting] 25 00:01:20,167 --> 00:01:22,691 We understand why people want to tell stories about us. 26 00:01:22,734 --> 00:01:24,127 [director]: Mark it. - Freeze! 27 00:01:24,170 --> 00:01:25,215 - FBI. 28 00:01:25,259 --> 00:01:26,651 - FBI! [man in the distance]: Action! 29 00:01:26,695 --> 00:01:28,131 [narrator]: But they don't know the half of it. 30 00:01:29,914 --> 00:01:31,743 What really goes down? 31 00:01:32,831 --> 00:01:34,311 We save that for each other 32 00:01:34,354 --> 00:01:36,487 when we're talking agent to agent. 33 00:01:40,229 --> 00:01:42,580 This is FBI. True. 34 00:01:51,110 --> 00:01:53,503 [upbeat suspenseful music] 35 00:01:56,854 --> 00:01:58,857 - Normally when I'm talking about cases, 36 00:01:58,901 --> 00:02:01,251 I'm talking to agents about their cases. 37 00:02:01,295 --> 00:02:03,427 In this particular matter, I was on the squad and worked 38 00:02:03,471 --> 00:02:05,125 this case intimately with... you were there. 39 00:02:06,082 --> 00:02:09,346 [narrator]: Kristy Kottis is a 24-year veteran of the FBI. 40 00:02:09,389 --> 00:02:12,436 Kottis was the supervisor of the FBI's threat response 41 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,006 squad, overseeing the bureau's response to terrorism threats in New York City. 42 00:02:17,049 --> 00:02:18,225 - You were there. - I was there 43 00:02:18,268 --> 00:02:19,661 - You were a big part of it, Kristy. 44 00:02:19,704 --> 00:02:21,141 You were one of the leaders of that team. 45 00:02:22,272 --> 00:02:24,535 [narrator]: The son of a New York cop, Harold Brantley's 46 00:02:24,579 --> 00:02:28,844 New-York City FBI squad is investigating violent crime 47 00:02:28,887 --> 00:02:31,847 against children and civil rights violations. 48 00:02:32,978 --> 00:02:35,111 - FBI management for the New York office asked me 49 00:02:35,155 --> 00:02:36,765 to come over to supervise that squad. 50 00:02:36,808 --> 00:02:40,508 It was my job to come in to support the agents to ensure 51 00:02:40,551 --> 00:02:42,814 they had everything they needed. - We knew the state 52 00:02:42,858 --> 00:02:46,296 of the game in our territory. 53 00:02:46,340 --> 00:02:51,432 I was very well aware of the abortion extremism movement, 54 00:02:51,475 --> 00:02:54,739 and the high-profile abortion doctors in the United States. 55 00:02:55,305 --> 00:02:57,438 [narrator]: A lawyer by training, Cynthia Deitle 56 00:02:57,481 --> 00:03:00,397 specialized in hate crime and corruption cases for the FBI. 57 00:03:01,355 --> 00:03:04,575 She rose to oversee civil rights for the entire bureau. 58 00:03:05,707 --> 00:03:08,144 - October 23rd, 1998. 59 00:03:08,188 --> 00:03:10,407 Why is that date a significant date? 60 00:03:10,451 --> 00:03:16,587 - It was a tragic day in that Dr. Barnett Slepian 61 00:03:16,631 --> 00:03:18,241 Was shot and killed his in his home. 62 00:03:18,285 --> 00:03:21,853 The news broke before our office even heard about it. 63 00:03:22,506 --> 00:03:24,552 - This story is happening right now. 64 00:03:24,595 --> 00:03:28,425 Well-known abortion doctor Barnett Slepian has been shot. 65 00:03:28,469 --> 00:03:32,473 - Sources tell News 4 a gunman shot from the woods behind 66 00:03:32,516 --> 00:03:35,476 Dr. Slepian's home on Roxbury Terrace in Amherst, 67 00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:36,825 striking him in the back. 68 00:03:38,174 --> 00:03:43,005 - A sniper used a high-powered rifle and shot him 69 00:03:43,048 --> 00:03:45,225 as he was warming up some soup in his kitchen. 70 00:03:45,268 --> 00:03:47,183 [gunshot] 71 00:03:49,446 --> 00:03:51,492 And within the matter of minutes, 72 00:03:51,535 --> 00:03:53,537 he bleeds out in his kitchen and dies. 73 00:03:55,670 --> 00:03:57,715 [melancholic music] 74 00:04:00,588 --> 00:04:02,198 - Cynthia, who is Dr. Slepian? 75 00:04:02,242 --> 00:04:05,506 - So when I joined the civil rights squad in 1997, 76 00:04:05,549 --> 00:04:09,466 I was very well aware of the players in the game, 77 00:04:09,510 --> 00:04:12,469 I was very well aware that, you know, Dr. Barnett Slepian 78 00:04:12,513 --> 00:04:16,038 was a women's health-care provider who practiced outside 79 00:04:16,081 --> 00:04:17,344 of Buffalo, New York. 80 00:04:17,387 --> 00:04:18,997 - So just take a deep breath. 81 00:04:19,041 --> 00:04:23,524 - So he did everything from pregnancies, birth control, 82 00:04:23,567 --> 00:04:27,789 into menopause, care for women, and he delivered babies. 83 00:04:27,832 --> 00:04:30,618 He was beloved by his community and his patients 84 00:04:30,661 --> 00:04:32,707 and also provided abortions. 85 00:04:32,750 --> 00:04:35,710 - I believe that as long as it's legal, 86 00:04:35,753 --> 00:04:38,016 I will provide total care to my patients. 87 00:04:38,582 --> 00:04:41,237 - His clinic had been subject to numerous protests. 88 00:04:41,281 --> 00:04:44,022 His home, his family had been targeted 89 00:04:44,066 --> 00:04:45,850 for harassment and abuse. 90 00:04:46,721 --> 00:04:47,939 [man shouting]: You pig! 91 00:04:47,983 --> 00:04:49,550 Take your hands off the babies and women! 92 00:04:49,593 --> 00:04:52,292 - I suppose I'm a little bit stubborn. 93 00:04:52,335 --> 00:04:56,034 Adversity has never bothered me. 94 00:04:56,470 --> 00:05:00,865 And the more that they come after me, the more I'll dig in. 95 00:05:01,431 --> 00:05:03,607 - It was the murder of an abortion doctor. 96 00:05:03,651 --> 00:05:05,392 That was a violation of federal law. 97 00:05:05,435 --> 00:05:09,178 The United States had already seen Dr. David Gunn. 98 00:05:09,221 --> 00:05:11,528 in Pensacola, Florida, an abortion provider 99 00:05:11,572 --> 00:05:12,834 who was shot and killed. 100 00:05:12,877 --> 00:05:14,401 [gunshot] 101 00:05:15,532 --> 00:05:18,056 [reporter]: Dr. David Gunn was shot after getting out of his car 102 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:20,972 as he came to work at the Pensacola abortion clinic. 103 00:05:21,016 --> 00:05:24,541 - We had seen bombings of abortion clinics. 104 00:05:24,585 --> 00:05:26,238 [explosion] 105 00:05:27,544 --> 00:05:30,373 [man filming]: Oh! We got a bomb that just went off. 106 00:05:30,417 --> 00:05:31,635 [sirens] 107 00:05:32,114 --> 00:05:34,464 [man shouting] 108 00:05:35,247 --> 00:05:38,990 - Arsons, attacks against women's health-care providers, 109 00:05:39,034 --> 00:05:40,209 against physicians. 110 00:05:42,472 --> 00:05:46,084 In 1994, after the shooting of Dr. Gunn, Congress 111 00:05:46,128 --> 00:05:49,392 and the President passed the FACE Act and it is against 112 00:05:49,436 --> 00:05:52,656 the law to use force or violence to interfere with a woman 113 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:57,400 or doctors or patients who are attempting to access reproductive health. 114 00:05:57,444 --> 00:06:00,142 - So the FBI gets involved and we open a Civil Rights 115 00:06:00,185 --> 00:06:03,667 FACE Act case in the murder of Dr. Slepian. 116 00:06:03,711 --> 00:06:04,929 - Yes, we did. 117 00:06:04,973 --> 00:06:07,976 - Mike, where were you on October 23, 1998? 118 00:06:08,019 --> 00:06:09,456 - I was a new agent at the academy 119 00:06:09,499 --> 00:06:10,848 in Quantico, Virginia. 120 00:06:10,892 --> 00:06:13,677 [narrator]: Michael Osborn spet 21 years working 121 00:06:13,721 --> 00:06:16,637 counterterrorism, crimes againt children 122 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,378 and civil rights cases for the FBI. 123 00:06:18,421 --> 00:06:21,293 This was one of his first case. 124 00:06:23,165 --> 00:06:25,080 [Michael]: The canvass of the neighborhood is ongoing. 125 00:06:25,123 --> 00:06:28,475 They talked to one of Dr. Slepian's neighbors 126 00:06:28,518 --> 00:06:31,695 who said: "Yeah, I did see an individual that didn't seem 127 00:06:31,739 --> 00:06:33,349 to fit in the neighborhood." 128 00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:37,397 She sees this guy jogging, but she said it really wasn't a jog. 129 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,356 And so they said: "Well, you know, can you describe him?" 130 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,576 "Yes." "Can you give us a description of the car?" 131 00:06:42,619 --> 00:06:44,142 And she says: "Yes. 132 00:06:44,186 --> 00:06:45,883 Not only that, but I can give you the license plate." 133 00:06:45,927 --> 00:06:48,582 They're like, "That's huge." - That's rare. 134 00:06:48,625 --> 00:06:51,106 When you get a witness like that, that actually have 135 00:06:51,149 --> 00:06:53,456 the wherewithal to actually capture a license number. 136 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:54,849 - So now we've got a license tag. 137 00:06:54,892 --> 00:06:56,284 What happens then? 138 00:06:56,328 --> 00:06:58,069 - Well, obviously, we're doing all of the searches 139 00:06:58,113 --> 00:07:02,422 of the vehicle and we ultimately find out it's registered back to 140 00:07:02,465 --> 00:07:03,727 James Charles Kopp. 141 00:07:08,515 --> 00:07:13,171 - Mr Kopp is being sought based on the sighting of a 1987 black 142 00:07:13,215 --> 00:07:19,743 Chevrolet Cavalier bearing Vermont license plate BPE 216 143 00:07:19,787 --> 00:07:24,269 in Amherst, NY, in the weeks preceding Dr. Slepian's homicide. 144 00:07:26,402 --> 00:07:28,926 [Cynthia]: James Kopp had been a frequent protester. 145 00:07:28,970 --> 00:07:32,930 He was affiliated with known abortion terrorist 146 00:07:32,974 --> 00:07:37,369 organizations, Army of God, Lambs of Christ and others. 147 00:07:37,413 --> 00:07:39,981 So he was a very well known player in the game. 148 00:07:40,024 --> 00:07:43,463 - Didn't the Army of God actually have a manual 149 00:07:43,506 --> 00:07:46,814 that gives instructions on how to attack an abortion clinic 150 00:07:46,857 --> 00:07:49,512 using chemicals, bombs? 151 00:07:52,341 --> 00:07:55,257 - Yes, and our squad had been tracking them for years. 152 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:57,607 So, we knew all the terrorist organizations that were 153 00:07:57,651 --> 00:08:00,175 very active and prevalent in the United States. 154 00:08:00,218 --> 00:08:01,698 So we look for a pattern, right? 155 00:08:01,742 --> 00:08:04,179 Like, we want to see, is the pattern of what happened 156 00:08:04,222 --> 00:08:08,096 to Dr. Slepian, was that replicated at some point before that? 157 00:08:08,139 --> 00:08:10,925 And what we saw was that same type of idea 158 00:08:10,968 --> 00:08:14,232 of the high-powered rifle shooting from a distance 159 00:08:14,276 --> 00:08:15,843 shooting into a location. 160 00:08:15,886 --> 00:08:19,150 Was the same situation that we had seen with shootings 161 00:08:19,194 --> 00:08:20,978 in Canada of abortion providers. 162 00:08:21,022 --> 00:08:24,112 - Yeah, as I recall, there were three doctors shot in Canada, 163 00:08:24,895 --> 00:08:25,983 one in Rochester. 164 00:08:26,027 --> 00:08:29,117 And Slepian who was shot in Buffalo 165 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,293 and he actually was the first one that was killed. 166 00:08:31,467 --> 00:08:35,123 - So we knew there was a pattern here where the person 167 00:08:35,165 --> 00:08:37,342 who probably did the shootings in Canada 168 00:08:37,385 --> 00:08:39,866 might have been the same person who killed Dr. Slepian. 169 00:08:39,909 --> 00:08:41,346 The Chevy Cavalier. 170 00:08:41,390 --> 00:08:44,001 It's registered to James Charles Kopp, we know that. 171 00:08:44,044 --> 00:08:46,961 We know he's got an address in St. Albans, Vermont. 172 00:08:47,004 --> 00:08:49,267 - Which is really close to the Canadian border. 173 00:08:49,311 --> 00:08:52,532 Which circumstantially, puts Kopp in the right position 174 00:08:52,575 --> 00:08:55,883 to commit all five of these shootings. 175 00:08:55,926 --> 00:08:58,407 - Law enforcement goes back to Dr. Slepian's home 176 00:08:58,450 --> 00:09:01,279 to where they think the shooter would have been standing 177 00:09:01,323 --> 00:09:03,238 in the woods and they find evidence 178 00:09:03,281 --> 00:09:05,588 that is buried in the dirt. 179 00:09:05,632 --> 00:09:09,331 In the woods, they find the ear protection 180 00:09:09,374 --> 00:09:10,637 that the shooter used. 181 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:12,508 A ball cap that he was wearing. 182 00:09:12,552 --> 00:09:15,990 The fibers in the hat matched the Chevy Cavalier. 183 00:09:17,469 --> 00:09:20,211 [suspenseful music] 184 00:09:21,169 --> 00:09:24,694 And they also find a tube that is partially buried in the dirt 185 00:09:24,738 --> 00:09:27,305 that has the high-powered rifle inside of it. 186 00:09:27,349 --> 00:09:28,742 That was a huge break in the case. 187 00:09:32,702 --> 00:09:35,575 When we recover the high-powered rifle in the woods 188 00:09:35,618 --> 00:09:38,882 behind Dr. Slepian's house, that also gives us evidence 189 00:09:38,926 --> 00:09:41,102 that ties us back to James Kopp. 190 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,847 We could match the DNA from the scope, from that little 191 00:09:46,890 --> 00:09:49,676 piece of rubber that surrounds the scope of the rifle, 192 00:09:49,719 --> 00:09:52,069 we could collect DNA from the rifle. 193 00:09:52,113 --> 00:09:55,464 - And we got Kopp's DNA off a toothbrush from a place 194 00:09:55,507 --> 00:09:57,074 he was staying in New Jersey. 195 00:09:57,118 --> 00:10:00,512 It was in a backpack he had left behind at a friend's house. 196 00:10:00,556 --> 00:10:03,733 - So we collect the DNA together and further tie it to Kopp. 197 00:10:06,693 --> 00:10:09,304 - We obtained an arrest warrant up in Buffalo 198 00:10:11,741 --> 00:10:13,351 and he's nowhere to be found. 199 00:10:13,395 --> 00:10:16,441 I mean, figuring out who killed Dr. Slepian was hard enough. 200 00:10:16,485 --> 00:10:19,270 But actually catching James Kopp before he kills again 201 00:10:19,314 --> 00:10:21,838 is going to be harder and more dangerous. 202 00:10:21,882 --> 00:10:23,579 - We don't know where he is. - Right. 203 00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:26,930 - We know where the other high-profile abortion doctors are. 204 00:10:26,974 --> 00:10:27,888 Is that where he's heading? 205 00:10:34,415 --> 00:10:37,637 - James Kopp, you know, he had a propensity for violence. 206 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,290 We could not let him off the hook. 207 00:10:39,334 --> 00:10:42,729 - And then shortly thereafter we announced James Charles Kopp 208 00:10:42,772 --> 00:10:45,557 as a member of the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list. 209 00:10:45,601 --> 00:10:47,342 [journalist]: From opposite corners of the globe, 210 00:10:47,647 --> 00:10:49,823 the Bureau selected alleged terrorist ring leader 211 00:10:49,866 --> 00:10:51,868 Osama Bin Laden currently hidig 212 00:10:51,912 --> 00:10:55,089 in Afghanistan, and James Charles Kopp, the suspected 213 00:10:55,132 --> 00:10:57,004 killer of a New York abortion doctor, 214 00:10:57,047 --> 00:10:58,962 current whereabouts unknown. 215 00:10:59,006 --> 00:11:01,486 - He has no known permanent address, has traveled 216 00:11:01,530 --> 00:11:03,140 extensively around the United States 217 00:11:03,184 --> 00:11:04,707 and through 11 countries. 218 00:11:04,751 --> 00:11:07,318 We know that he has used approximately 29 different 219 00:11:07,362 --> 00:11:09,756 aliases and false identification. 220 00:11:16,197 --> 00:11:18,721 - I mean, this is long before we had the electronic 221 00:11:18,765 --> 00:11:21,724 surveillance tools and capabilities that we have today. 222 00:11:21,768 --> 00:11:23,508 Kopp was changing his look. 223 00:11:23,552 --> 00:11:26,120 He was wearing a beard, shaving it. 224 00:11:26,163 --> 00:11:29,427 Fake IDs, fake names, living off the grid. 225 00:11:29,471 --> 00:11:30,951 Made it very difficult. 226 00:11:32,648 --> 00:11:34,737 - The mission was to find and arrest Kopp 227 00:11:34,781 --> 00:11:38,828 but you're just trying to see who might be tied to him, 228 00:11:38,872 --> 00:11:42,353 who maybe was a co-conspirator in the crime, 229 00:11:42,397 --> 00:11:45,792 and who might be providing financial assistance. 230 00:11:45,835 --> 00:11:48,969 And there are two individuals that here in the New York area 231 00:11:49,012 --> 00:11:51,623 that were identified, and that's Dennis Malvasi 232 00:11:51,667 --> 00:11:52,494 and Loretta Marra. 233 00:11:57,455 --> 00:11:58,979 - Dennis Malvasi was a bomber. 234 00:11:59,022 --> 00:12:03,113 - Dennis Malvasi, was the first person to bomb an abortion 235 00:12:03,157 --> 00:12:07,596 clinic in New York City and he had executed other bombings 236 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:10,120 in clinics throughout Manhattan as well. 237 00:12:11,078 --> 00:12:13,254 [sirens] 238 00:12:14,211 --> 00:12:17,040 [journalist]: In New York City early today an abortion clinic 239 00:12:17,084 --> 00:12:18,563 was the target of a bombing. 240 00:12:19,869 --> 00:12:22,872 Flying debris injured two passers-by. 241 00:12:24,265 --> 00:12:26,833 Police think the device was planted inside 242 00:12:26,876 --> 00:12:28,704 during business hours. 243 00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:30,837 - And you know, and Malvasi actually went to prison 244 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,796 for seven years for his violence against abortion clinics. 245 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,234 And even when he got out, he still advocated violence 246 00:12:37,278 --> 00:12:38,801 against abortion clinics. 247 00:12:38,845 --> 00:12:40,542 - I encourage you all 248 00:12:40,585 --> 00:12:43,327 to continue the noble work 249 00:12:43,371 --> 00:12:45,329 of supporting your local baby defenders 250 00:12:45,373 --> 00:12:49,681 from lock-gluers to bombers to the Avon crowd 251 00:12:49,725 --> 00:12:53,773 to the monkey wrench crew, from arsonists to snipers. 252 00:12:54,948 --> 00:12:57,515 - So he obviously was somebody we had to be concerned about. 253 00:13:00,257 --> 00:13:01,824 - Loretta Marra, was married to Dennis. 254 00:13:01,868 --> 00:13:05,001 She had been tied to Kopp 255 00:13:05,045 --> 00:13:08,657 in a number of different ways in previous protests. 256 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:10,920 She was definitely on the radar. 257 00:13:11,573 --> 00:13:13,270 There are a lot of people that would have supported him. 258 00:13:13,314 --> 00:13:17,622 But there was, you know, a handful, maybe five 259 00:13:17,666 --> 00:13:19,711 or six people in the world that knew where Kopp was. 260 00:13:19,755 --> 00:13:23,672 But in terms of, where he was and what his plan was, 261 00:13:23,715 --> 00:13:28,851 we believed home base was Dennis and Loretta's apartment. 262 00:13:33,856 --> 00:13:36,859 So it would have been late summer, early fall of 99, 263 00:13:36,903 --> 00:13:39,775 after being assigned to the New York office. 264 00:13:41,646 --> 00:13:44,040 One of the first tasks was to find individuals 265 00:13:44,084 --> 00:13:47,348 that were close to Dennis and Loretta. 266 00:13:47,391 --> 00:13:51,613 And ultimately they identified one individual and they asked 267 00:13:51,656 --> 00:13:53,484 us to go out and in and talk to this person. 268 00:13:53,528 --> 00:13:57,662 - In every investigation in the Bureau, your life is made 269 00:13:57,706 --> 00:14:00,361 a lot easier if you have somebody who can provide you information. 270 00:14:00,404 --> 00:14:01,971 Mike had the temperament and I felt 271 00:14:02,015 --> 00:14:03,233 he was the right man for the job. 272 00:14:03,277 --> 00:14:05,148 - I personally thought, you know: 273 00:14:05,192 --> 00:14:06,976 "Hey, I can talk to him, I can talk to anybody." 274 00:14:07,890 --> 00:14:10,414 This person was very close to Dennis. 275 00:14:10,458 --> 00:14:12,939 And you're saying: "Hey, can you give us information about 276 00:14:12,982 --> 00:14:14,331 a friend of yours?" 277 00:14:14,375 --> 00:14:16,638 That's not a comfortable situation to be in, right? 278 00:14:16,681 --> 00:14:18,074 It doesn't always go well. 279 00:14:18,118 --> 00:14:20,163 It was an extended period of time 280 00:14:20,207 --> 00:14:21,773 that we were talking to this individual. 281 00:14:21,817 --> 00:14:24,907 - Mike had the patience of job to deal with this informant 282 00:14:24,951 --> 00:14:27,954 because he was one of those guys who was extremely high maintenance. 283 00:14:27,997 --> 00:14:30,826 - And one day, the source calls back and says: 284 00:14:30,870 --> 00:14:32,219 "Hey, okay, I'm in." 285 00:14:32,262 --> 00:14:35,135 The source had known Dennis for a number of years. 286 00:14:35,178 --> 00:14:38,921 Essentially, I was trying to parlay that off into 287 00:14:38,965 --> 00:14:41,619 a relationship between the source and Loretta, 288 00:14:41,663 --> 00:14:43,839 because we knew that Kopp relied on Loretta. 289 00:14:43,883 --> 00:14:46,581 Loretta would do anything for Kopp. 290 00:14:50,977 --> 00:14:53,370 - Mike, tell me a little bit about what the source did 291 00:14:53,414 --> 00:14:54,937 to develop the reader's trust. 292 00:14:54,981 --> 00:14:59,159 - On one particular day Loretta wants to go glue locks. 293 00:14:59,202 --> 00:15:02,640 So basically what that is, is activists will go up 294 00:15:02,684 --> 00:15:05,730 to clinics and they'll shove glue into the key locks. 295 00:15:05,774 --> 00:15:07,907 The source was like: "Hey, I want to glue locks 296 00:15:07,950 --> 00:15:09,691 with Loretta. Loretta wants me to go" 297 00:15:09,734 --> 00:15:12,650 And I'm like: "no, we're not doing that because we would need 298 00:15:12,694 --> 00:15:15,349 a lot of authority before he starts going." 299 00:15:15,392 --> 00:15:18,613 - Uh, you just can't do that, you're acting on our behalf. 300 00:15:18,656 --> 00:15:20,702 - I personally viewed it as a test. 301 00:15:20,745 --> 00:15:24,053 So what ultimately happened is Loretta is driving 302 00:15:24,097 --> 00:15:27,187 the source, gets out and goes up and pretends to glue the lock 303 00:15:27,230 --> 00:15:30,973 and gets glue all over them and comes back and super excited. 304 00:15:31,017 --> 00:15:33,410 And then she was really excited. 305 00:15:33,454 --> 00:15:36,892 Uh, you know, from that experience, and I think 306 00:15:36,936 --> 00:15:39,590 at that point really started to really established 307 00:15:39,634 --> 00:15:44,160 the source as a major player with Loretta, 308 00:15:44,204 --> 00:15:47,337 another step forward, a big step forward. 309 00:15:47,381 --> 00:15:51,515 The source was able to, from Loretta, get a couple of pieces 310 00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:54,649 of paper and was able to see that there were some 311 00:15:54,692 --> 00:15:57,434 phone numbers that turned out to be phone numbers to Ireland. 312 00:15:58,609 --> 00:16:00,437 We thought that that's where Kopp was. 313 00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:03,701 We felt like we would have major success if we were able 314 00:16:03,745 --> 00:16:05,616 to listen to the conversations that were happening 315 00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:07,314 in Dennis and Loretta's apartment. 316 00:16:08,576 --> 00:16:11,318 And the source and Dennis played cards all the time. 317 00:16:11,361 --> 00:16:14,712 So we developed this plan where the source would take 318 00:16:14,756 --> 00:16:17,672 Dennis and Loretta down to Atlantic City. 319 00:16:17,715 --> 00:16:18,978 So we got a vehicle 320 00:16:19,021 --> 00:16:20,631 wired the vehicle up. 321 00:16:20,675 --> 00:16:22,546 So when they were driving down there, anything that they said 322 00:16:22,590 --> 00:16:23,547 we would be able to hear. 323 00:16:23,591 --> 00:16:25,201 We wired up two hotel rooms. 324 00:16:25,245 --> 00:16:27,247 So we would be able to monitor that as well. 325 00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:32,034 At the same time, up here in New York, we were going to be 326 00:16:32,078 --> 00:16:34,602 getting into their apartment and planting a bug 327 00:16:34,645 --> 00:16:36,908 and then also putting a tracker on their computer. 328 00:16:36,952 --> 00:16:38,519 I mean it was a huge weekend. 329 00:16:38,998 --> 00:16:42,262 - And in this case, you, Harold are the one who's doing it, 330 00:16:42,305 --> 00:16:43,611 this black back job. 331 00:16:43,654 --> 00:16:45,265 How did you decide that you should be the one 332 00:16:45,308 --> 00:16:46,744 that's going in there? 333 00:16:46,788 --> 00:16:49,051 - There was no way I was going to turn that case over 334 00:16:49,095 --> 00:16:51,967 to an undercover agent because if there was going to be 335 00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:54,622 any screw ups, then I was going to be the one front and center 336 00:16:54,665 --> 00:16:55,884 who had to answer those questions. 337 00:16:55,927 --> 00:16:57,886 - How stressful is it getting ready to go? 338 00:16:57,929 --> 00:16:59,496 It's 3:00 in the morning. 339 00:16:59,540 --> 00:17:01,281 You've got the whole team out there. 340 00:17:01,324 --> 00:17:04,762 You've got technical guys, bomb techs, you. 341 00:17:04,806 --> 00:17:07,765 - Highest level of stress because we could not make a mistake. 342 00:17:13,075 --> 00:17:16,948 We had the best plan in place when we went inside that apartment. 343 00:17:17,862 --> 00:17:21,127 The one thing we didn't factor in was there was a cat 344 00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:24,217 in that apartment, and the damn cat ran out the building, 345 00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:27,307 out the apartment door, down the hallway. 346 00:17:27,349 --> 00:17:29,396 And we're like, you got to be kidding me. 347 00:17:29,439 --> 00:17:30,527 We were taking pictures of passwords. 348 00:17:30,571 --> 00:17:32,442 We were taking pictures of codes 349 00:17:32,486 --> 00:17:34,140 because we didn't know what exactly they were. 350 00:17:34,183 --> 00:17:35,924 So we had to decipher that stuff. 351 00:17:35,967 --> 00:17:38,057 And of course, we had to get that cat back in the house, 352 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:41,103 because can you imagine if Dennis and Loretta comes home 353 00:17:41,147 --> 00:17:43,714 and they come in that apartment and that cat missing something? 354 00:17:43,758 --> 00:17:45,325 Something as simple as that. 355 00:17:45,368 --> 00:17:47,414 Can you imagine? A cat kind of blew that whole operation? 356 00:17:49,459 --> 00:17:50,634 - We got great information. 357 00:17:51,853 --> 00:17:54,116 There was a Yahoo! account and we could see 358 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,249 that there were draft emails. 359 00:17:56,292 --> 00:17:59,904 So essentially Kopp and Loretta were communicating through drafts. 360 00:17:59,948 --> 00:18:03,604 It was an email that they would write but never send, 361 00:18:03,647 --> 00:18:05,388 and then they would both access that account 362 00:18:05,432 --> 00:18:07,173 and basically be able to have a conversation. 363 00:18:09,436 --> 00:18:10,698 We knew he was in Europe. 364 00:18:10,741 --> 00:18:12,221 We thought he was in France. 365 00:18:13,266 --> 00:18:14,571 We didn't know where. 366 00:18:16,095 --> 00:18:18,619 - During that time we were working overnight and everybody, 367 00:18:18,662 --> 00:18:20,316 we were feeling the pressure. - And then we would 368 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:21,970 talk to somebody else and we'd say: 369 00:18:22,013 --> 00:18:25,104 "Oh, he was here a week ago" and then "he was here yesterday". 370 00:18:25,147 --> 00:18:26,453 We knew we were getting closer. 371 00:18:26,496 --> 00:18:28,542 We knew we were within 24 hours of where he was. 372 00:18:28,585 --> 00:18:31,762 It was kind of one of those things where, like, you can see 373 00:18:31,806 --> 00:18:33,590 him, then you can smell him and you can touch him. 374 00:18:33,634 --> 00:18:36,463 So we knew we were, you know, really, really close. 375 00:18:36,506 --> 00:18:38,552 We were also concerned that potentially 376 00:18:38,595 --> 00:18:39,988 he wanted to come back. 377 00:18:40,031 --> 00:18:41,772 - And we heard that in some of the conversations. 378 00:18:42,425 --> 00:18:43,818 Dennis was saying to Loretta: 379 00:18:43,861 --> 00:18:45,211 "I'm the one that's going to meet him. 380 00:18:45,254 --> 00:18:46,908 I'm the one that's going." 381 00:18:51,695 --> 00:18:53,741 But all the emails were written in code, right? 382 00:18:53,784 --> 00:18:58,137 - Some of the code we had already been able to break. 383 00:18:58,876 --> 00:19:00,878 There were all these references to the margins and 384 00:19:00,922 --> 00:19:02,880 to the "jackie area" and we worked with 385 00:19:02,924 --> 00:19:04,969 the Bureau's code breakers to figure out 386 00:19:05,013 --> 00:19:07,102 that these were references to the Canadian border 387 00:19:07,146 --> 00:19:10,061 south of Montreal where Loretta Marra's son was born. 388 00:19:10,671 --> 00:19:12,673 We were concerned that there was a plan that 389 00:19:12,716 --> 00:19:15,197 he was going to come back and try to come through 390 00:19:15,241 --> 00:19:17,286 Canada into the U.S. again. 391 00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:19,680 If they're willing to go to this level of planning, 392 00:19:19,723 --> 00:19:22,291 you know, what are they planning next? 393 00:19:24,424 --> 00:19:27,209 - We knew that James Kopp was possibly implicated 394 00:19:27,253 --> 00:19:28,689 in shooting doctors in Canada. 395 00:19:28,732 --> 00:19:30,038 We knew he had a violent tendency. 396 00:19:30,081 --> 00:19:31,866 Like, if he gets away with killing Dr. Slepian, 397 00:19:31,909 --> 00:19:34,085 what's the next thing he's going to do? 398 00:19:34,129 --> 00:19:35,826 We had to get him, we had to get him. 399 00:19:35,870 --> 00:19:37,350 We had to get him now. 400 00:19:37,393 --> 00:19:39,308 - But then also, there was a financial component here. 401 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:43,399 And one day, Loretta, she asked the source 402 00:19:43,443 --> 00:19:45,749 to wire money to Kopp. 403 00:19:45,793 --> 00:19:48,535 That's what we've been working for, for over a year. 404 00:19:48,578 --> 00:19:50,537 And the source goes out and wires money. 405 00:19:50,580 --> 00:19:53,888 And then after wiring the money, there was basically 406 00:19:53,931 --> 00:19:57,283 a flurry of communications because now Kopp needed to get 407 00:19:57,326 --> 00:19:59,372 the code and he needed to get the money out. 408 00:19:59,763 --> 00:20:01,504 But the problem is he didn't get the right code. 409 00:20:02,418 --> 00:20:05,552 Kopp ends up going into a post office in Dinan, France, 410 00:20:07,902 --> 00:20:10,252 tries to get the money and is not getting the money. 411 00:20:10,296 --> 00:20:12,863 Kopp became very, very frustrated because he had 412 00:20:12,907 --> 00:20:17,520 the wrong code and potentially there were some language barrier issues. 413 00:20:17,564 --> 00:20:20,044 - Yeah, an on the email that Kopp was writing, 414 00:20:20,088 --> 00:20:21,959 he was all ticked off because he said the keys 415 00:20:22,003 --> 00:20:25,398 were all "frenchied up" and that he can't get the money 416 00:20:25,441 --> 00:20:26,877 "without the control number." 417 00:20:26,921 --> 00:20:29,010 - So we were getting a lot of intelligence 418 00:20:29,053 --> 00:20:30,968 that was coming very, very quickly. 419 00:20:31,012 --> 00:20:32,709 Kopp was in Dinan. 420 00:20:32,753 --> 00:20:36,104 He was calling back to Dennis and Loretta in Brooklyn. 421 00:20:36,147 --> 00:20:39,020 We were monitoring that from Manhattan. 422 00:20:39,063 --> 00:20:40,804 And I'm on the phone with Buffalo. 423 00:20:40,848 --> 00:20:41,892 And I said: "Here he is, it's Kopp. 424 00:20:41,936 --> 00:20:42,937 You can hear it." 425 00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:44,460 So I put the phone to the speaker. 426 00:20:44,504 --> 00:20:47,681 They were relaying the message, you know, live time 427 00:20:47,724 --> 00:20:50,858 to the LEGAT in Paris and the LEGAT in Paris was 428 00:20:50,901 --> 00:20:54,949 listening to Buffalo and talking to the locals in Dinan, France at the same time. 429 00:20:54,992 --> 00:21:01,825 So it went live time from Dinan to Brooklyn to Manhattan 430 00:21:01,869 --> 00:21:03,566 to Buffalo to Paris to Dinan. 431 00:21:03,610 --> 00:21:06,569 And he's at the phone booth right outside 432 00:21:06,613 --> 00:21:07,788 the main post office. 433 00:21:07,831 --> 00:21:09,137 They went there. 434 00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:10,269 They saw him. 435 00:21:10,312 --> 00:21:11,487 Kopp saw the cops. 436 00:21:11,531 --> 00:21:12,488 Kopp started running. 437 00:21:12,532 --> 00:21:13,663 There was a small foot chase... 438 00:21:16,449 --> 00:21:20,148 [epic music] 439 00:21:24,587 --> 00:21:25,849 and they tackle him. 440 00:21:27,938 --> 00:21:30,593 Immediately it was like, we got to get to Brooklyn. 441 00:21:30,637 --> 00:21:32,900 We were worried about evidence destruction. 442 00:21:32,943 --> 00:21:34,684 We were worried about potentially 443 00:21:34,728 --> 00:21:36,686 what might Dennis do. He's a known bomber. 444 00:21:36,730 --> 00:21:39,167 - We were on two wheels on the median strip 445 00:21:39,210 --> 00:21:41,343 driving lights and sirens going. 446 00:21:41,387 --> 00:21:44,477 We got there in record time, like from Manhattan to Brooklyn 447 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,044 in like 10 minutes - I had called the SWAT guys. 448 00:21:47,088 --> 00:21:48,698 I was about a block and a half away. 449 00:21:48,742 --> 00:21:51,266 The SWAT vehicle comes just hauling by me, right? 450 00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:53,877 Just super fast and then pulled right in front. 451 00:21:53,921 --> 00:21:57,011 And they go into the... to the building. 452 00:21:57,054 --> 00:21:59,013 And I remember just sitting there thinking: 453 00:21:59,056 --> 00:22:00,275 "Please don't blow up. Please don't blow up." 454 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:01,668 - Oh, my God. - Because I was worried 455 00:22:01,711 --> 00:22:02,973 what he might do. 456 00:22:03,017 --> 00:22:06,281 - We pull up and Loretta is in the laundromat. 457 00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:08,109 She was definitely non-compliant. 458 00:22:08,152 --> 00:22:11,373 [journalist]: Late this afternoon, the FBI arrested 459 00:22:11,417 --> 00:22:13,854 two people in New York on charges of helping Kopp 460 00:22:13,897 --> 00:22:14,898 stay on the run. 461 00:22:15,899 --> 00:22:17,597 - We're here to announce that James Charles Kopp 462 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,251 is in custody and awaiting extradition 463 00:22:20,295 --> 00:22:21,340 to the United States. 464 00:22:21,383 --> 00:22:23,385 [suspenseful music] 465 00:22:59,769 --> 00:23:04,339 - Knowing that we stopped a very violent individual 466 00:23:04,383 --> 00:23:06,385 from committing violence again. 467 00:23:06,428 --> 00:23:09,475 I mean, capturing a Top Ten fugitive as an FBI agent 468 00:23:09,518 --> 00:23:11,999 is a once in a million opportunity. 469 00:23:12,042 --> 00:23:15,132 - The most technically advanced case that I've ever worked on. 470 00:23:15,176 --> 00:23:17,004 This is the pinnacle of my career. 471 00:23:17,047 --> 00:23:19,310 I'm basically two and a half years into it. 472 00:23:19,354 --> 00:23:21,617 - You know, it was such a hot button issue too, Harold. 473 00:23:21,661 --> 00:23:23,750 the fact that this was in the sphere 474 00:23:23,793 --> 00:23:26,579 of the abortion debate. - Sure. 475 00:23:26,622 --> 00:23:28,842 You know, for me and rest of the team, it was never 476 00:23:28,885 --> 00:23:31,975 discussed we were laser focused on one mission only, 477 00:23:32,019 --> 00:23:33,412 and that was to bring Kopp to justice. 478 00:23:33,455 --> 00:23:36,458 So I think that's the beauty of the team, 479 00:23:36,502 --> 00:23:37,285 the beauty of the Bureau. 480 00:23:37,328 --> 00:23:38,025 We never give up. 481 00:23:43,596 --> 00:23:47,164 Subtitling: difuze