(POWERFUL CHORAL MUSIC)
When you join a sacred image to excrement,
everybody understands that that is taken to be insulting.
everybody understands that Art often provokes,
depending on how you feel about what you're looking at. Art often provokes,
depending on how you feel about what you're looking at.
It says more about you than about me.
Hi, I'm Brook Andrew.
I hail from Wiradjuri and Ngunnawal peoples
who have inspired and nurtured me on my life journey.
I'm an artist and have had the honour of exhibiting my work,
collaborating with Indigenous and other communities
collaborating with Indigenous and curating on a global stage,
from Colombia, France, Japan to the Sharjah and Sydney Biennales.
As an artist, I dig deep to reflect on how we exist
in the world and confront painful truths.
This journey often leads into sensitive
and sometimes challenging places of taboo.
When I was a younger artist in the '90s,
When I was a younger artist I was very passionate about
the visibility of us, you know, about Indigenous culture.
And so I made a work called Sexy and Dangerous.
And then at one point it became almost taboo,
like, you know, do I have a right to show this photo or not?
I currently don't use ethnographic imagery any more in my work.
I currently don't use ethnographic I feel that I've dealt with this.
Throughout my work,
I've witnessed how subjects deemed taboo
can trigger intense emotions that extend far beyond the world of art.
Over like a 30-year span of someone's career,
histories change or politics and religion changes or society changes.
And so there's always a context around taboo.
And I think one of the most challenging things about
an artist that works from a very personal viewpoint
an artist that works of wanting to know more
is that once you expose yourself publicly,
that thing has its own life and you cannot be in charge of it.
I've been long aware of the nature and power of taboo ideas,
so much so that, in 2012, I curated an exhibition called Taboo
at the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia.
When we were doing the catalogue,
there's a very early British watercolour
that showed a golliwog getting married to a, you know,
a pretty white girl with curls and she's crying and crying.
Yet I couldn't put it on the front cover
without it being concealed somehow.
So we concealed it with a plastic wrapping.
So we concealed it But you can take the cover off.
So there's this thing where,
you know, if you want to,
you can reveal it yourself or not reveal it yourself.
There's still so much I want to understand
about how we interpret and live taboos.
about how we interpret How do we talk to each other
about sensitive subjects How do we talk to each other
about sensitive subjects without drawing battle lines?
about sensitive subjects Or is this always inevitable?
And how can artists protect themselves
and each other in a polarised world,
where their livelihoods are under threat
from moral crusades or just basic differences?
I want to know who is in charge of taboo,
because I think that often we're just making our work.
All of a sudden we're placed in something
All of a sudden and all the spotlight is on us,
and we think, "Whoa, hang on and all the spotlight is on us,
and we think, "Whoa, hang on a minute. How did I get here?"
I want to start my journey
by talking to an artist who found themselves
in the eye of a taboo storm,
and who stands their own ground in the eye of a taboo storm,
and who stands their own ground of this tale.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
In the name of the Father, and Amen.
It's blasphemous. It's insulting.
Two staff have already been injured in this incident.
I'm not going to put their lives at risk.
Piss Christ is a monumental and provocative photograph
Piss Christ is a monumental of Jesus on the crucifix
immersed in the artist's own urine.
Though the work was already a decade old,
Cardinal George Pell sought to ban it from Australian audiences,
denouncing the artist as blasphemous.
denouncing the artist His injunction failed,
but the surrounding media storm His injunction failed,
but the surrounding media storm incited two teenagers
but the surrounding media storm to vandalise the piece with a hammer.
After three days of escalating threats
and intimidation from some Christian groups,
the National Gallery of Victoria ultimately capitulated
the National Gallery of Victoria and closed the exhibition.
For me, what the children did was foolish,
but what the National Gallery has done is irresponsible and criminal.
Andres, it's great to see you.
Great to see you.
Andres Serrano's work confronts the raw realities of human existence,
sex, death, ethnicity, religion, and violence,
territories where the notion of taboo is constantly at play.
Through his unwavering commitment to his beliefs
and his probing of humanity's complexities,
and his probing Serrano has developed a practice
that is both prolific and internationally acclaimed.
His New York home is a shrine
and houses a vast collection of religious relics and antiquities,
an irony given that his art is often seen
as provocative or even antithetical to contemporary Christian values.
I was born and raised a Christian,
but I was born and raised a poor Christian, you know?
And so, uh, this came after I made enough money
And so, uh, this came to be able to buy things.
28 years on from this complex cancellation of his work,
I'm curious how Andres' experience
has shaped his thoughts on who's in charge of taboo.
If we could transport ourselves back to 1997
If we could transport and the National Gallery of Victoria
was showing your really incredible work, Piss Christ,
what was it like to experience,
dare I say, the controversy?
The bad part was the show was cancelled.
The good part was everybody in Australia heard about it.
The good part was everybody You know,
more people heard about it than You know,
more people heard about it than would have gone to see the show.
more people heard about it than So that's the thing where I say,
sometimes you got to take the good with the bad.
I mean, was that something that was really, I mean,
disappointing on a personal level that you hoped
that people would kind of maybe expand their minds
that people would kind of about why you make this work?
Art often provokes.
There's always the new,
and sometimes the new
is unfamiliar enough and sometimes the new
is unfamiliar enough to make people feel uncomfortable.
In my case, I've always said my work is open to interpretation.
When you join a sacred image to excrement,
everybody understands that that is taken to be insulting.
Well, actually, no, because I thought he was saying, everybody understands that that is taken to be insulting.
Well, actually, no, because I thought he was saying,
"This is what we are doing to Christ.
"We're not treating him with reverence.
"We live very vulgar lives. with reverence.
"We live very vulgar lives.
"We put Christ in a bottle of urine, in practice."
Depending on how you feel about what you're looking at,
whether it's a picture of someone in a morgue or Ku Klux Klan,
whether it's a picture of someone even Donald Trump...
I took a picture of Donald Trump for my America series.
So depending on how you feel about that subject,
So depending on how you feel that particular person,
it says more about you than about me,
because in my work I don't judge.
I treat everyone the same, and I try to make them all look good.
I treat everyone the same, and I try So who is in charge of taboos then?
I don't know who's in charge of taboo.
I don't know I'm not in charge of taboo.
(LAUGHS)
I'm inspired by Andres' perspective and stamina,
how he invites us to form our own engagement with the subjects
how he invites us to form our own regardless of where we draw the line.
Even if we think his images are taboo,
Even if we think his images their real power is in asking
how we chose to interpret the world around us.
For some, taboo can be interpreted as cultural or personal freedom
For some, taboo can be interpreted against the status quo.
But on the fine margins of someone else's morality,
taboo can bring controversy and even disgust.
One famous provocateur knew this all too well,
One famous provocateur and in 1785,
the controversial Marquis de Sade and in 1785,
the controversial Marquis de Sade created 120 Days Of Sodom,
the shocking and transgressive novel exploring extreme human cruelty,
the shocking and transgressive novel power and perversion.
But was there method behind the apparent madness of the Marquis?
Who was the Marquis de Sade? But was there method behind the apparent madness of the Marquis?
Who was the Marquis de Sade?
He's alternatively been described
as one of the greatest artistic minds that's ever lived,
and one of the most deranged and monstrous human beings.
OK.
He spent 30-plus years of his life imprisoned,
was never formally charged for anything,
was never formally charged but was essentially put away
because he was seen as dangerous under three different governments.
because he was seen as dangerous What an achievement!
He wrote some of his works while witnessing
the daily executions during the Reign of Terror.
His prison cell was positioned right above the guillotine.
Can you tell me what taboos does the Marquis explore
Can you tell me what taboos in 120 Days Of Sodom?
It might be an easier question in 120 Days Of Sodom?
It might be an easier question to say
what taboos AREN'T covered in this book, frankly.
The book is set around four men of power
that document the various sexual taboos that exist.
that document the various We have cannibalism, incest,
bodily mutilation,
flagellation, scatology and murder.
To this day, this is one of the most censored works
of pornographic literature that we have.
What do you think the legacy of 120 Days Of Sodom is today?
If people say it's too vile and it's too monstrous,
If people say it's too vile there's an argument to be had there.
At the same time, is this meant to be an allegorical story
At the same time, is this of how power corrupts?
Pornographers in the 18th century were writing to inspire revolution.
And this is the man who, while in the Bastille prison, Pornographers in the 18th century were writing to inspire revolution.
And this is the man who, while in the Bastille prison,
yells outside of his window through his piss tube,
saying they're killing the prisoners inside, "You must help us,"
and literally inspires the storming of the Bastille.
and literally inspires So, in every sense,
you've got this person who is in So, in every sense,
you've got this person who is in the midst of this momentous change,
but again, takes it too far at every single moment.
While I don't recommend adding 120 Days Of Sodom to your book club,
if we look past the Marquis de Sade's depravity,
maybe we can see the familiar modern figure of a whistleblower,
even if that whistle was a piss tube.
Challenging ignorance and prejudice head on
can put artists on a collision course
can put artists that may come across as taboo,
even though there is reason that may come across as taboo,
even though there is reason for doing this -
to deliberately create situations to shock others into their reality.
But for some, ambiguity isn't on the menu.
Sam Petersen is a visual artist, writer, and performer.
The Slow Violence Cook Book is a collection of Sam's writings,
interspersed with variations of the same cake recipe
interspersed with variations repeated over and over.
I hope they are meant to look like this.
Hey, Sam.
How are you?
Look, I made one of your cakes. A peanut butter cake.
Look, I made one of your cakes. Ooh.
But I think it looks like a turd.
(LAUGHS)
ELECTRONIC VOICE: Very curious to taste.
ELECTRONIC VOICE: They weren't all meant to work.
The recipes are all the same cake, They weren't all meant to work.
The recipes are all the same cake,
but with different flavours to represent
the sameness of the constant ableism.
Or the constant turds.
(LAUGHS)
Apocalypse Vulture is Sam's latest sculpture.
The rigged out chair features a modified disabled logo,
loudspeakers, catheter piss guns, and a poo chute.
It's being used in a photo shoot for Sam's upcoming short film.
I could really see you burning up the film set
I could really see you with a new version of, I don't know,
Tina Turner's appearance in...
(BOTH LAUGH)
Is it Beyond Thunderdome?
It will be over political,
containing every bit of taboo I've done and then some.
containing every bit of taboo I would say wrapped in grossness.
But a lot of what I've written about is pretty bad.
It will have pee, defaecation, road kill,
It will have pee, defaecation, ugliness, neglect,
loneliness, bullying,
infantilization,
and plain old abuse,
reflecting treatment I have endured and plain old abuse,
reflecting treatment I have endured in real-world scenarios.
In doing so, hopefully showing the world how horrible it can be.
In doing so, hopefully showing Sam, is taboo your secret weapon?
Not sure what is secret about it, but yes,
I do use it like a weapon,
because I have every reason to.
As well as sculpture and performance and recently used collage,
As well as sculpture and performance this piece, You Need Us,
is a series of ransom letters
detailing Sam's demands to an ableist society.
Art is a powerful communication tool,
and how Sam mixes playfulness with genuine anger
to force us to respond is an important act of dignity.
The work confronts deep-lying taboos
about how people with disabilities are viewed.
about how people with disabilities Because there is this concept
that we have to be grateful for everything.
I laugh the hardest in the grimmest points of my life.
Humour is rage, humour is shock,
and we like to shock
because we are so full of rage.
And when you are driven to the brink lots of times,
you start to see things
and it is all too tempting to use them in your work.
and it is all too tempting So, Sam, who is in charge of taboo?
I am.
Because I don't care.
Well, I do a little.
When I come up with a concept, I think,
When I come up with a concept, "Hehe, great idea."
But then I start to doubt myself.
Because I'm not the only one But then I start to doubt myself.
Because I'm not the only one with disabilities in this world,
and I've been through so much indignity...
..that I start to wonder whether I'm doing the right thing.
But inevitably, I do the taboo
because I know But inevitably, I do the taboo
because I know it's the only way forward.
And it feels so powerful to take it back.
(ELECTRONIC SCREAMING)
OK, are we all dying to have a piece of this cake?
Oh, my.
It's a little soft inside. OK, here we go.
It's a little soft inside. Who wants to try some turd?
Do you think that's what taboo tastes like?
Do you think An aspect.
Watching Sam take charge of taboo so powerfully
Watching Sam take charge of taboo is compelling and important.
Another artist who understands the delicate balance
Another artist of sharing personal stories
is Australia's representative at the 2026 Venice Biennale.
Hey, brother. Hey, bro.
My dear friend Khaled Sabsabi,
whose work I included in the curated exhibition Taboo
at the Museum of Contemporary Art Australia in 2012.
at the Museum of Contemporary Art Welcome, Brook. Come in.
And we might have a look at content from the archive.
I'm curious to get Khaled's understanding
I'm curious to get of what taboo means to him,
especially in the context of a global view of migration,
spiritual growth, and freedom of speech.
No way. This is from Taboo.
In 2012, he contributed A Bird Of Peace
In 2012, to a work called Vitrines,
which collected various mementos from artists
along with photographs of war, genocide and conflict.
Look at that. Being happy.
Yeah, I was really happy. Look at that. Being happy.
Yeah, I was really happy.
Peace vendor.
I'm still happy, bro.
His family emigrated to Australia in the 1970s,
His family emigrated to Australia fleeing the civil war in Lebanon.
I remember being in a boot of a car
and then nothing after that,
and then just waking up at a border.
Khaled Sabsabi's remarkable life journey deeply informs his art.
Guided by a commitment to social justice,
his immersive installations delve into themes
of displacement and belonging,
the persistence of hope,
and the spiritual dimensions of mysticism and Sufism.
Music and sound is so important to me.
Music and sound Sort of multi-sensory experience.
Khaled Sabsabi's artistic journey began in the 1990s,
when he was working as a youth worker
and became immersed in Sydney's hip-hop scene.
It was here that he discovered his voice,
blending his commitment to activism
with his passion for creative expression.
You talk about peace and you talk about collaboration.
How is taboo tied up in that for you?
Through my memories of childhood, yes,
there was memory of war and trauma,
but there was also moments of religious spiritual ceremonies. there was memory of war and trauma,
but there was also moments of religious spiritual ceremonies.
Khaled's art is an invitation
to step into the delicate terrain of ideas Khaled's art is an invitation
to step into the delicate terrain of ideas
often left unspoken, even taboo.
Yet here they become spaces for dialogue and reflection.
Rooted in the Sufi path, Yet here they become spaces for dialogue and reflection.
Rooted in the Sufi path,
his work reaches towards the divine
through the languages of love, learning and devotion,
offering a journey that is at once personal and universal.
If we're going to speak about Tasawwuf - Sufism...
..then we have to open the discussion,
and the only way you can actually open the discussion...
..is to cleanse.
Give me your right hand. Turn it over.
Now we can talk about Sufism and Tasawwuf.
The idea of a guide and a teacher in Tasawwuf...
..is so critical to the point
of what is taboo?
With taboo comes knowledge.
You are a custodian of knowledge.
But when you are a custodian of knowledge...
..there comes responsibility and accountability.
How much of that knowledge do you share?
And with whom are you sharing it with?
Is there a way in which that you thought
people might receive your work? in which that you thought
people might receive your work?
And there's been a difference in which it has been received?
I don't particularly make work for one type of audience.
It does ask questions,
which relates back to the idea of taboo,
because there's some things that you say,
because there's some things "Well, that's shame
"or that's, like, mahzur or muharam,"
which are two Arabic words, which means forbidden.
To make work is about broadening conversations...
..regardless of ethnicity,
regardless of faith, ..regardless of ethnicity,
regardless of faith, regardless of gender.
And part of making artwork is part of a healing process for me. regardless of faith, regardless of gender.
And part of making artwork is part of a healing process for me.
So, Khaled, who is in control of taboo?
The person that holds the knowledge.
That's who I feel is in control of taboo.
Cut.
Conversations with Khaled
remind me that engaging with taboos Conversations with Khaled
remind me that engaging with taboos always carries risk,
both for the subjects and for the artists themselves.
It also raises questions I'm often asked.
"What is it that artists seek from their audiences
"What is it that artists seek "when we confront the taboo?"
All opposing sides, they're all part of the same thing.
We're all part of this planet.
And if you think about what they say about the universal mind,
we're even more connected than we know.
I was one of 200 artists
and creators and writers who were invited to the Vatican
and creators and writers to hear Pope Francis speak.
And when I went up to the Pope and I said to him,
"Your Holiness, my name is Andres Serrano,
"and I've come here to ask for your blessing."
"and I've come here And the Pope smiled.
He took my hand.
He tapped it twice, and then he went like that.
He tapped it twice, And afterwards the press said to me,
"You were the only one And afterwards the press said to me,
"You were the only one he gave a thumbs up to."
I got what I always wanted from Pope Francis,
not only an acknowledgement that I was an artist,
not only an acknowledgement that I'm a Christian,
but also a thumbs up. (LAUGHS)
And this is what we need, right, as artists?
And this is what we need, right, I mean, even when things get tough,
we need to know that people that we respect are respecting us back.
I think even when you're on opposing sides, you know...
Because I feel like things are very polarised right now.
There's that group and that group, and they hate each other.
There's that group and that group, And you need to come to terms
with speaking to each other without hate.
The need for respect and understanding
is something I think about constantly
when creating work with sensitive material.
So this is called Vox: Beyond Tasmania,
and it was really a way to resonate the human remains trade
and the scientific racism
that happened during those periods of colonialism
that happened during those periods in Australia specifically.
This voxel, this voice,
is really a kind of opportunity for these skeletons,
these ancestors, to speak back to us today.
these ancestors, So it has books, it has research,
but it also has originally a human remain like a skeleton.
But recently I decided that scanning it
But recently I decided and doing a replica in plastic
was the most honourable thing to do,
especially that, internationally and within Australia,
there's a huge movement of repatriation of human remains.
there's a huge movement To confront taboos
is to step into uneasy territory when no answer is ever clear.
For artists, the challenge is urgent.
For artists, When does the pursuit of truth
cross into exploitation or misunderstanding?
Like, I even had people from Tasmania saying,
"Is that a Tasmanian Aboriginal skull?"
So the Aboriginal community from there
ringing me up, thinking that I'd done that.
ringing me up, Yeah, there's a lot to consider.
Today it can sometimes seem
that engaging with taboos Today it can sometimes seem
that engaging with taboos only fuels ongoing cultural wars,
that engaging with taboos where delicate and meaningful ideas
are too easily dismissed or reduced to offences.
are too easily dismissed This makes me wonder
how did taboo come to stand as shorthand for conflict
rather than understanding?
To explore this, I turned to Sione Napi Francis,
a collections manager at Melbourne Museum,
whose insights can help trace the deeper origins of taboo.
So, Sione, where does the word 'taboo' come from?
The word was originally popularised by Captain Cook in 1777. So, Sione, where does the word 'taboo' come from?
The word was originally popularised by Captain Cook in 1777.
He came to Tongatapu, which is the main island of the Tonga group,
and it became to mean something very different to the original word,
which is 'tapu'. very different to the original word,
which is 'tapu'.
'Tapu' is a relational word.
It's about the sacredness of people and places
It's about the sacredness of people and your relationship to it.
Very important to mention the word 'tulou'.
Very important to mention the word Uh, 'tulou' is a word of respect.
So, for example,
a, uh, local First Nations elder,
if I was going to walk past them,
I would say, "Tulou," to show that that person has tapu within them.
And it's something that you need to respect.
So reflecting on the artists we've been speaking with and meeting,
So reflecting on the artists taboo seems to be about power.
Yes, it's more about having difficult conversations
Yes, it's more about about the context that you're in.
For example, acknowledgement of country.
It's a way of balancing that power dynamic
and creating space for a real dialogue around difficult questions.
OK, if tapu is a way of protecting rather than persecuting,
OK, if tapu is a way of protecting then maybe taking control of taboo
means bringing togetherness then maybe taking control of taboo
means bringing togetherness rather than division.
When embraced in this way,
can tapu be understood not as a barrier,
can tapu be understood but as a healing force?
One that restores balance but as a healing force?
One that restores balance and honours connection.
To continue this journey, I turn to an artist
whose work is deeply rooted in her cultural traditions,
carrying forward the living meaning of tapu.
South Pacific Prints Kingdom of Tonga.
South Pacific Prints Where is this from?
This is from Tonga. It was my mum's.
This is from Tonga. This is where the word 'taboo'...
Ah! OK.
is used today internationally,
The way in which 'taboo' is used today internationally,
how does that feel? is used today internationally,
how does that feel?
The word 'taboo' is very limited
something is really forbidden.
in the way that it can just mean something is really forbidden.
But for 'tapu', something is really forbidden.
But for 'tapu',
this describes how one would sanctify a space as well.
Maybe bringing community. Exactly.
Maybe bringing community. When communities understand
when something has been sanctified as sacred,
it determines how they behave with each other
it determines how they behave and with the space that they're in.
So there's like an understanding and with the space that they're in.
So there's like an understanding in a way?
So there's like an understanding Totally. And it keeps them safe.
Latai Taumoepeau is a Tongan punake and multidisciplinary artist
whose practice is grounded in faiva,
a body-centred tradition
that weaves together ritual, protest and ceremony.
that weaves together ritual, She addresses climate, justice,
ancestral memory and Pacific sovereignty.
What does taboo, or tapu, mean to you?
You know, as an artist and as a woman
who works with performance and with my body,
who works with performance I have to take some of those risks.
So risks are not always only dangerous risks,
So risks but social risks.
And I think but social risks.
And I think when you work with culture,
And I think I think you have to understand
that you are making that kind of commitment.
Latai's works are complex physical compositions
that allow or even require an audience to participate.
And today I get to see Latai's latest performance in person.
Usually I've done endurance performance work,
but this time it's a 15-minute choreographed score.
I work with young people and they learn it.
They rehearse it very quickly, and then they perform it.
Through the motion of rowing machines,
Through the motion high-school students activate voices
recorded in the Latai's Tongan village.
This participatory work
immerses audiences in rhythms of tradition,
evoking ancestral ties and a living connection with the ocean.
Central to this work is an ancient prayer,
Central to this work or a himo lotu.
I wanted to use that or a himo lotu.
I wanted to use that as a way of continuing
a communion with the deep sea sediment.
Experiencing the work feels almost hypnotic.
Experiencing the work I am not only transported,
but also enveloped I am not only transported,
but also enveloped in a sense of tapu
for the ocean and connection to ancestors,
for the ocean sacred realms,
precious and fragile, under threat from forces of climate change.
This work is looking at all kinds of different ways
of exploring the sacred,
and also as a way into our custodianship of the ocean
and our work to defend it.
The deep sea is a very sacred space. It's where we began.
The deep sea is a very sacred space. And so that sense of communion
is something And so that sense of communion
is something that I wanted people to experience.
(APPLAUSE)
What I admire most about Latai's work
is how it comes alive through participation.
It calls us to rise, to engage,
and, through the transformative power of tapu,
to protect the fragile world we share.
And if that isn't reclaiming the meaning of taboo,
And if that isn't reclaiming I'm not sure what is.
It is serious reflection on history, identity,
and alternative views that continues to drive my work.
And sharing time with the extraordinary and brave artists
And sharing time with the I've encountered on this journey
has only deepened I've encountered on this journey
has only deepened that sense of respect
has only deepened and revealing truths
that are sometimes difficult to reconcile and heal.
Taboos often signal areas of sensitivity and respect,
but they need not stand as roadblocks in life.
If we approach them with courage, imagination,
If we approach them with courage, care, and a willingness to listen,
taboos can become guides,
opening pathways to new ideas and new worlds taboos can become guides,
opening pathways to new ideas and new worlds
through art and beyond. and new worlds
through art and beyond.