1
00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:13,080
Steve Kilbey.
2
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:13,320
Steve Kilbey.
I'm great.
3
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,560
Jess, how are you? I'm good.
I'm great.
4
00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,040
You grew up when the moon landings
were actually happening.
5
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,840
Yeah, yeah.
What was that like?
6
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:22,080
Yeah, yeah.
Extraordinary. It was 1969.
7
00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,520
Extraordinary. It was 1969.
8
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:24,760
ARMSTRONG: (OVER TV)
Extraordinary. It was 1969.
9
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,520
ARMSTRONG: (OVER TV)
The Eagle has landed.
10
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,760
And I remember it was
during a maths class,
11
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:30,000
And I remember it was
and we had a little TV up there,
12
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,800
and we had a little TV up there,
13
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,080
and we watched them
walk on the moon.
14
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:35,320
and we watched them
That's one small step for man,
15
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,640
That's one small step for man,
16
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,840
one giant leap for mankind.
17
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,760
It was strange, we all just sat
there and watched it and went,
18
00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:46,360
"Oh, yeah,
we've landed on the moon."
19
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,080
And then he just
went on with the day.
20
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,120
Yeah.
Isn't that bizarre?
21
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,080
And then back out
in the playground,
22
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,680
having your milk at 11:00
and trying to chat up a girl.
23
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:54,920
having your milk at 11:00
(LAUGHS)
24
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:55,800
(LAUGHS)
25
00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,880
It was a very different world.
26
00:00:57,880 --> 00:00:58,120
WOMAN: Lift-off for a group
It was a very different world.
27
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,960
WOMAN: Lift-off for a group
of six women...
28
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,840
Seeing as we are
going out in reality...
29
00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:04,080
Seeing as we are
MAN: Back to the moon and beyond.
30
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,360
MAN: Back to the moon and beyond.
31
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,840
..how do we make sure
that we do that well?
32
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:10,080
..how do we make sure
We won't.
33
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,560
We won't.
34
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,440
Look, I know what you're thinking -
35
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,920
it looks like I'm prepping
for zero gravity.
36
00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,760
But no, I'm not leaving Earth,
I'm making a sculpture.
37
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,040
And I built this piece to celebrate
one of Earth's smallest superheroes -
38
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:41,280
the bee.
And I built this piece to celebrate
one of Earth's smallest superheroes -
39
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,640
the bee.
40
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,120
The inspiration was helping people
to stay connected
41
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,360
to their own love
for the environment.
42
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,280
Because I've always believed that
art can speak to the urgent things -
43
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:51,520
Because I've always believed that
climate, care, connection.
44
00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,520
climate, care, connection.
45
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:54,720
climate, care, connection.
And I've spent most of my time
46
00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,560
And I've spent most of my time
47
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,520
focused on the space
beneath the clouds.
48
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,040
On the series Star Trek:
Strange New Worlds,
49
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,800
she stars as Nurse Chapel.
50
00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:03,000
she stars as Nurse Chapel.
Her body's rejecting the serum.
51
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,240
Her body's rejecting the serum.
52
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:04,480
That is until I joined the cast of
Her body's rejecting the serum.
53
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,560
That is until I joined the cast of
Star Trek: Strange New Worlds,
54
00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,640
because suddenly then I was
surrounded by scientists,
55
00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:12,880
because suddenly then I was
futurists, thinkers,
56
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,120
futurists, thinkers,
57
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,400
people who opened my mind
to what's happening up there.
58
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,680
I can't wait for us
to hear the sonic boom.
59
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:22,680
Oh, the moon!
60
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,000
You guys, I will have to tell you,
look at the moon.
61
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:30,080
Yep, we are entering a new
era of space exploration.
62
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:30,320
Yep, we are entering a new
ALL: Taking Up Space!
63
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,880
ALL: Taking Up Space!
64
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:33,000
(ALL CHEER)
65
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:33,240
I'm not gonna lie, it's a bit surreal
and also a little terrifying.
(ALL CHEER)
66
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,880
I'm not gonna lie, it's a bit surreal
and also a little terrifying.
67
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,040
MAN: This is not right.
Something happened.
68
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:41,280
MAN: This is not right.
Something happened.
WOMAN: We have lost the ship.
69
00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,240
WOMAN: We have lost the ship.
70
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,280
MAN: We appear to have had
a launch vehicle failure.
71
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,720
But most of all,
it's got me thinking.
72
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:49,000
How many resources went into putting
these women into space?
But most of all,
it's got me thinking.
73
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,360
How many resources went into putting
these women into space?
74
00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:53,600
How many resources went into putting
these women into space?
With our track record here on Earth:
75
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,040
With our track record here on Earth:
76
00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,440
And can art help guide the way?
77
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,240
I've heard you've got
five albums coming out.
78
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,240
Yeah.
Not slowing down at all?
79
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:13,520
I can't. I'm wired into
this thing 24 hours a day.
Yeah.
Not slowing down at all?
80
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,200
I can't. I'm wired into
this thing 24 hours a day.
81
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,080
Why are we so obsessed with space,
anyway?
82
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:21,320
Why are we so obsessed with space,
It's a planet in a spiritual sky.
83
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,560
It's a planet in a spiritual sky.
84
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,000
To find out, I've come to chat with
85
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,280
one of Australia's greatest
songwriters, Steve Kilbey.
86
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,040
# You won't get some things
outta my time
87
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,360
# I got no reservations
88
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:34,600
# You won't get something
out of mind... #
# I got no reservations
89
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,920
# You won't get something
out of mind... #
90
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,880
He's world renowned as leader
of the band The Church
91
00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:42,160
He's world renowned as leader
of the band The Church
and co-writer of their smash hit
Under The Milky Way...
92
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,880
and co-writer of their smash hit
Under The Milky Way...
93
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,360
# Under the Milky Way tonight... #
94
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:49,560
# Under the Milky Way tonight... #
..with a musical imagination
95
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,200
..with a musical imagination
96
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,080
that's taken listeners to
other times and other worlds.
97
00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,120
# Nothing moved
as it slept in space... #
98
00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,680
I'm keen to hear why Steve thinks
space has inspired so many artists.
99
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:09,080
Space and sci-fi has been something
that is fairly new to me,
100
00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,000
and it seems that
you share that interest,
101
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,240
but maybe it goes back
a little further.
102
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,000
All the way, yeah.
Yeah?
103
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:16,240
All the way, yeah.
I remember when I was 18,
104
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,480
I remember when I was 18,
105
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,560
suddenly this genre of space rock
just came out of nowhere.
106
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:22,800
suddenly this genre of space rock
(HEAVY ROCK MUSIC PLAYS)
107
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,480
(HEAVY ROCK MUSIC PLAYS)
108
00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,440
It was Hawkwind and Pink Floyd,
and then Ziggy Stardust.
109
00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:29,680
It was Hawkwind and Pink Floyd,
(HEAVY ROCK MUSIC CONTINUES)
110
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:34,040
(HEAVY ROCK MUSIC CONTINUES)
111
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,200
For the first time ever,
musicians were exploring
112
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,360
not just the idea of space,
but the feeling of space.
113
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:41,600
not just the idea of space,
That really got me in.
114
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:42,920
That really got me in.
115
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,200
And this band Hawkwind,
have you ever listened to them?
116
00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,720
I have had a little listen to them.
Yeah, they're awesome.
117
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:49,640
Yeah.
So cool.
118
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:49,880
# I
Yeah.
So cool.
119
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,600
# I
120
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,760
# I just took a ride
121
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,520
# In a silver machine...
#
122
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,360
Well, they were the first band
I ever heard
123
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,160
who were trying to give you
the feeling
124
00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:00,400
who were trying to give you
of what space travel might be like.
125
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,400
of what space travel might be like.
126
00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,520
And it sort of had this,
127
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,160
for want of a better word,
druggie feeling.
128
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,160
The stars and the comets
are all translated
129
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:11,400
The stars and the comets
as synthesisers and oscillators.
130
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,640
as synthesisers and oscillators.
131
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,400
(SPACE-AGE SYNTHESISER SOUNDS)
132
00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,600
It's like... (MIMICS SYNTHESISER)
133
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,440
(SYNTHESISER CONTINUES)
134
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:20,600
..whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo.
135
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:26,560
(HEAVY ROCK GUITAR SOLO PLAYS)
136
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,200
(CHEERING, APPLAUSE)
137
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,480
So, exploring space imaginatively
for you
138
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:35,720
So, exploring space imaginatively
is more about the escapism of it?
139
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,600
is more about the escapism of it?
140
00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:37,840
Yes.
is more about the escapism of it?
141
00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:38,720
Yes.
Yeah.
142
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,280
In music and art, I'm not
really interested in reality,
143
00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:47,040
I'm interested in this
poetic aspect of space.
144
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,480
And when you're immersed
in this weird,
145
00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,520
spiritual, magical world,
146
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,320
that's music that gives you ample
opportunities for weirdness.
147
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:00,920
Yeah.
Because space is weird.
148
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:01,160
Yeah.
Different.
149
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:01,960
Different.
150
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,360
So, that's where I go back
151
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,000
to find the things I want to
give out to the audience.
152
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,440
Yeah.
This other world.
153
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:08,680
Yeah.
Yeah.
154
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:09,440
Yeah.
155
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,040
# Wish I knew what
you were looking for... #
156
00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,080
And you can definitely feel that
expansive, otherworldly quality
157
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,960
in the Church's biggest song,
Under The Milky Way.
158
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,560
So, what do you think
about the song
159
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,040
is so accessible,
universally connective?
160
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:28,280
is so accessible,
I think it's ambiguous,
161
00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:29,840
I think it's ambiguous,
162
00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:32,640
and I think ambiguity is
a really interesting thing,
163
00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,480
and it's one of the things
I kind of specialise in.
164
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:35,720
and it's one of the things
# And it's something quite... #
165
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,600
# And it's something quite... #
166
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,480
You've got this line of ambiguity.
167
00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,560
If you go too far
and it's too specific,
168
00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,520
you're going to block
a lot of people out.
169
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:45,920
They're going to go,
"That can't be me."
170
00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,480
But if you can fall right on
the line and people love it.
171
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:49,720
But if you can fall right on
Under The Milky Way is that.
172
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:51,320
Under The Milky Way is that.
173
00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,080
Anybody can inhabit that song.
174
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,800
I happen to think that
because it's under the stars
175
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:01,040
I happen to think that
that people can look up and realise
176
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,280
that people can look up and realise
177
00:07:03,280 --> 00:07:04,520
that we're all seeing
the same thing,
178
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,400
and so it's unifying in a way.
There you go.
179
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,880
It's really beautiful.
No-one's ever said that before.
180
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:09,600
Really?!
No.
181
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:09,840
Really?!
That's very surprising to me.
182
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:10,760
That's very surprising to me.
183
00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,280
No, looking up, the cosmos
reduces us all to one.
184
00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,600
Yeah, exactly.
185
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,080
Looking up at the stars
is kind of an equaliser.
186
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,520
No matter who we are, we're all
staring up at the same sky.
187
00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,080
And maybe that shared
perspective is exactly
188
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,600
what we need
as we head back into space.
189
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,960
You write your own story
about yourself.
190
00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,560
At the start of this episode,
I asked Steve...
191
00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,600
How do we make sure
that we do that well?
192
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:42,840
How do we make sure
We won't.
193
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:43,680
We won't.
194
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,480
And let's just say
he didn't sugar coat it.
195
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:46,720
And let's just say
We will go to other planets,
196
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,520
We will go to other planets,
197
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,320
we will pollute them
and burn them out.
198
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,120
And if there are people there,
we will enslave them and kill them
199
00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,800
and try and make them believe
in Jesus.
200
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,520
And that sort of seems to be
what humanity does.
201
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,400
Which brings me to
the real question.
202
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,600
Do you think that
the art that we make
203
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,520
can have an impact on
how things play out?
204
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:11,760
can have an impact on
Yes, I do.
205
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:12,600
Yes, I do.
206
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,120
You can get a glimpse of the world
we could have through art.
207
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,560
Now, that's something
I can work with.
208
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:25,400
Because, sure, art reflects
the world we live in,
209
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,960
but I'm interested in
how it can offer an alternative.
210
00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,640
Right now, it's easy to
feel like the future
211
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,480
is being built for the few,
not the many.
212
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,720
I want to thank
every Amazon employee
213
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:40,960
I want to thank
every Amazon employee
and every Amazon customer,
214
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,840
and every Amazon customer,
215
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,400
because you guys paid for all this.
216
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,400
And while billionaires turn space
into their next big business...
217
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,520
..down here on Earth, one artist is
imagining something else entirely.
218
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,000
Hello?
219
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:02,240
Hey.
Hello.
Hello?
220
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,080
Hey.
Hello.
221
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,080
How are you going?
Serwah, what's up?
222
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:06,360
How are you going?
Serwah, what's up?
We out here.
This is so cool.
223
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,760
We out here.
This is so cool.
224
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:10,000
We out here.
Thank you.
225
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:10,880
Thank you.
226
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:11,120
Serwah Attafuah's studio feels like
Thank you.
227
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,800
Serwah Attafuah's studio feels like
stepping into a time portal.
228
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,040
Serwah Attafuah's studio feels like
Whoa, that's cool.
229
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,040
Whoa, that's cool.
230
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,880
On one side, piles of vintage tech.
231
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:19,120
So, these are bits and pieces
On one side, piles of vintage tech.
232
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,640
So, these are bits and pieces
of e-waste and, like, scrap tech.
233
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:22,880
So, these are bits and pieces
Epic.
234
00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:23,640
Epic.
235
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:24,640
On the other...
236
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,480
This monitor is crazy.
237
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,960
..this sleek, high-powered
workstation
238
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,560
with surreal new worlds in progress.
239
00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:33,720
This is my spaceship.
240
00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:38,760
It's where she builds
her digital dreamscapes.
241
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,560
Not as a visitor,
but as the main character.
242
00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:45,960
Growing up, I was obsessed with,
like, avatar-based games...
243
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,200
..but I felt like I could
never totally be myself
244
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:50,440
..but I felt like I could
or do what I wanted.
245
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,200
or do what I wanted.
246
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,920
So, I just started making
my own little metaverses,
247
00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,840
and trying to create visions
of our future
248
00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:58,080
where I could actually see myself.
and trying to create visions
of our future
249
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,000
where I could actually see myself.
250
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,520
Serwah's futures aren't
billionaires' playgrounds,
251
00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:09,760
Serwah's futures aren't
that's for sure.
252
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:10,880
that's for sure.
253
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:11,120
They're a lush, layered
that's for sure.
254
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,000
They're a lush, layered
black perspective
255
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:14,280
on what our journey to
space could look like.
They're a lush, layered
black perspective
256
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,000
on what our journey to
space could look like.
257
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:17,240
on what our journey to
Displayed across five screens,
258
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,480
Displayed across five screens,
259
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,720
this one features female warriors
260
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,520
rising from burning slave castles
and shipwrecked colonial vessels.
261
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,160
In Serwah's words,
262
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,640
"a futuristic realm of resilience
and reclamation".
263
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:33,760
Like, I'm noticing
that you have, like,
264
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:34,000
Like, I'm noticing
a real interest in vintage future.
265
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,240
a real interest in vintage future.
266
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,480
Yes.
Like, old imaginings of the future.
267
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:39,680
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
268
00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,800
You can't look to the future
without looking to the past.
269
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:43,040
You can't look to the future
I think that's where we mess it up,
270
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:44,480
I think that's where we mess it up,
271
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,520
is dreaming up futures that have
nothing to do with our past.
272
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,560
So, I think that's why
I'm really into
273
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:51,800
those, like, older depictions
of the future,
274
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,600
because they give us an indication
of what we've wanted,
275
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,720
what our dreams were,
why we want to make these things.
276
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,920
Yeah.
I guess, yeah.
277
00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,480
And Serwah's work is
part of a tradition
278
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,240
that digs deep into those dreams.
279
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,160
It's called Afrofuturism,
280
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,400
a reimagining of the future
through a black cultural lens.
281
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:16,000
It first emerged during the
civil rights movement of the '60s,
282
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:16,280
It first emerged during the
civil rights movement of the '60s,
partly in response to
a very white space program.
283
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,680
partly in response to
a very white space program.
284
00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:22,400
We choose to go to the moon
in this decade
285
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:22,640
We choose to go to the moon
and do the other things...
286
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,320
and do the other things...
287
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,920
From the cosmic jazz of Sun Ra
288
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,960
to the science fiction of
Octavia Butler,
289
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,600
to Janelle Monae and Black Panther,
290
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,800
it's about depicting a future
where African history,
291
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,960
culture, mythology
and tradition thrive.
292
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,800
Your work has been described
as Afrofuturistic quite a bit.
293
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,280
How do you feel about being included
in that tradition of art-making,
294
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:47,600
like, that world?
295
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,000
It feels great.
296
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,280
Like, the more I can sort of
create visions like that,
297
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,600
that can hopefully inspire,
that really means a lot to me.
298
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,800
For me, I make my artwork
not really for the people of today,
299
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,480
I make it for
the people of the future.
300
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:03,720
I make it for
I make it for my future ancestors.
301
00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,520
I make it for my future ancestors.
302
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,080
Sort of like the opposite
of an elder.
303
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,960
Like, as insane as it sounds,
I feel like I'm trying
304
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,800
to learn from people
that aren't here yet.
305
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,200
Instead of...
That's so cool.
306
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:15,600
You know, like,
learn from my elders,
307
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,520
but I also try and think about
my great-great-grandchild,
308
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,800
trying to make a world that
she would want to live in.
309
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,840
I love Serwah's works.
She calls them heavenly dystopias.
310
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,400
They're beautiful, bold,
311
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,400
and they make space feel like
it belongs to all of us,
312
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,040
not just the richest, the fastest,
or the first.
313
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,120
They're not just visions
of survival,
314
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,880
they're visions of joy,
of care, of possibility.
315
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,200
But I know what
you might be thinking.
316
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,040
Can art really help
shape the future?
317
00:12:59,040 --> 00:12:59,280
Can art really help
Like, really?
318
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,160
Like, really?
319
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,080
MAN: I controlled myself and didn't
wear my Star Trek uniform.
320
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,400
Oh, that would have been so good!
I would have loved that.
321
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,840
It's in the closet. You tell me.
322
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:11,920
(LAUGHS)
323
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,400
I'm nowhere near as much of
a sci-fi fan as you.
324
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,080
Probably why you had friends
in high school.
325
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:16,320
Probably why you had friends
(LAUGHS)
326
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,560
(LAUGHS)
327
00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:17,760
WOMAN: Whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo!
(LAUGHS)
328
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,120
WOMAN: Whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo, whoo!
329
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,720
We have Mike Gold.
330
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,400
Through Star Trek,
I've met some amazing people
331
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:23,680
Through Star Trek,
I've met some amazing people
working in the space industry,
and Mike Gold is one of them.
332
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,960
working in the space industry,
and Mike Gold is one of them.
333
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,480
He is one of the biggest Star Trek
fans around in the industry.
334
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:31,880
He's not just a sci-fi fan,
335
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,840
Mike spent his career turning
science fiction into science fact,
336
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:37,080
Mike spent his career turning
from NASA to Redwire,
337
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,840
from NASA to Redwire,
338
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:39,080
a company building tech
from NASA to Redwire,
339
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,600
a company building tech
for life beyond Earth.
340
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:42,840
a company building tech
And he's got me wondering,
341
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,440
And he's got me wondering,
342
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:48,960
can a TV show really shape
what we build in space?
343
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,400
You are, without a doubt,
344
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,560
the biggest Star Trek fan
that I've ever met.
345
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:58,120
Did it influence you to embark on
the career path that you've taken?
346
00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,080
Absolutely.
347
00:13:59,080 --> 00:13:59,320
My life wouldn't be what it is
without Star Trek.
Absolutely.
348
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,640
My life wouldn't be what it is
without Star Trek.
349
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,720
Not just the inspiration
and awe and wonder of space,
350
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,840
but the optimistic society
that Star Trek portrayed.
351
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,680
While I may be the biggest
Star Trek fan you know,
352
00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,880
if you go to NASA headquarters,
I wouldn't be alone.
353
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,840
That so many of us at NASA,
so many of us in the private sector,
354
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,080
were inspired by Star Trek.
355
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,520
Could you, like, give us
some insight into some ways
356
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:29,760
Could you, like, give us
that Star Trek has influenced NASA
357
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,720
that Star Trek has influenced NASA
358
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,840
and Redwire's approach
to space exploration?
359
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:34,680
Absolutely.
360
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,760
And you'll have to stop me,
361
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,160
because we could do a show
just on this question alone.
362
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,400
It was because of the diversity
of Star Trek,
363
00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:45,440
and particularly the work of
Nichelle Nichols,
364
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,920
who played Lieutenant Uhura
in the original series -
365
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,680
she spent, I think,
the better part of six months
366
00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,080
under contract from NASA,
crisscrossing the country
367
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,240
to find female and African-American
astronauts, minority astronauts.
368
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,640
And those became the first female
and minority astronaut candidates
369
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:01,880
And those became the first female
in the history of NASA.
370
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,640
in the history of NASA.
371
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:05,280
This is your NASA.
372
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,040
The name of the first space shuttle
was originally, I believe,
373
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:09,280
The name of the first space shuttle
going to be Constellation,
374
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:10,760
going to be Constellation,
375
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,680
and it was because of Star Trek
fans writing in and complaining
376
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,360
that they made the name of the
first space shuttle Enterprise.
377
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,640
At Redwire, we're building a system
378
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:26,040
that can take the dirt from the moon
and turn it into roads,
379
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:26,280
that can take the dirt from the moon
turn it into housing,
380
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:27,440
turn it into housing,
381
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,480
and that very much is
modelled off of
382
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,280
the Star Trek Replicator technology.
383
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,440
They're all fantastic examples
384
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,120
of Star Trek influencing
our future in space.
385
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,360
But there's another one,
a big one,
386
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:40,600
But there's another one,
that Mike himself helped bring about.
387
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,480
that Mike himself helped bring about.
388
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:42,720
If you had 15 seconds
that Mike himself helped bring about.
389
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,680
If you had 15 seconds
in an elevator to tell me
390
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,600
what the Artemis Accords are,
what would you say?
391
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,400
The Artemis Accords are
a global commitment
392
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:49,640
The Artemis Accords are
by now 53 nations
393
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,280
by now 53 nations
394
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,960
to explore space
in a peaceful, safe,
395
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,320
sustainable and transparent fashion.
396
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,240
I would say they're the vehicle
397
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,000
to achieve the dream
that is Star Trek.
398
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:03,240
to achieve the dream
Wow. And what was your part in it?
399
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,880
Wow. And what was your part in it?
400
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,680
Well, as you might note
from the name,
401
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,120
I named the Artemis Accords.
402
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,240
(LAUGHS) Just that little thing.
Yeah.
403
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,760
I had to get my
Star Trek reference in.
404
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,840
You can't really get more direct
than that, can you? (LAUGHS)
405
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,080
You can't really get more direct
Whoa. Can we just take a moment?
406
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,320
Whoa. Can we just take a moment?
407
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,280
That's a remarkable example
of our journey into space
408
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,440
being shaped by art
and storytelling.
409
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,560
It's such a magic, symbiotic
kind of relationship, isn't it,
410
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,600
between art and reality?
411
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,160
It's very cool.
Yes.
412
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,000
I consider you and your colleagues
part of the space program,
413
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,480
because you play a role
that is as important
414
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,160
as any engineer,
as any rocket science.
415
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:45,400
as any engineer,
Whoo!
416
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,440
Whoo!
417
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,720
Whoa. Talking to Mike,
it really hits me.
418
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,000
Art doesn't just imagine space,
419
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,400
sometimes it helps us
actually get there.
420
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,880
A TV show became a blueprint,
a story turned into a strategy.
421
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:07,760
But while 20th-century
sci-fi may have helped
422
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,720
launch us toward the stars,
423
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,680
the world's oldest continuous
culture has had a deep relationship
424
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:13,920
the world's oldest continuous
with space for millennia.
425
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,200
with space for millennia.
426
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:22,000
To explore those stories,
art historian Mary McGillivray
427
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,880
is teaming up with astrophysicist
428
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,640
and proud Wiradjuri woman
Dr Kirsten Banks.
429
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,880
So this is an early
18th-century star atlas.
430
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,400
And Orion's belt, I think, is one of
the most well-known constellations.
431
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,760
Yes. In Wiradjuri we actually see
the stars of Orion
432
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,560
as the same sort of pattern
representing a human or a man.
433
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,360
For us, though, we see it
as the Creator spirit Baiame.
434
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:49,600
For us, though, we see it
as the Creator spirit Baiame.
And in one of the stories,
435
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:50,840
And in one of the stories,
436
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,800
he's running along
and chasing an emu called Dinewan.
437
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,480
And he trips on a log...
438
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,040
..and falls flat on his face.
439
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:09,800
And that is illustrated
in how the stars move.
440
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,360
When Orion sets in the sky,
from Australia's perspective,
441
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:14,600
When Orion sets in the sky,
he sets headfirst.
442
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,960
he sets headfirst.
443
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,480
So, Baiame is...
Falling over the log.
444
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,920
Yeah, headfirst into the ground.
That's fantastic.
445
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,200
So, it illustrates the story
quite well.
446
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,160
I love it.
447
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,400
In Wiradjuri culture,
the Southern Cross isn't a cross.
448
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,640
We actually see it as Yarran,
which is a tree.
449
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,240
But the two stars next to the cross,
the Southern Pointers,
450
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,200
we call them Mouyi Mouyi,
which represent two cockatoos.
451
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,480
And what's going on is
that Yarran is their home,
452
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:50,720
And what's going on is
the tree is their home.
453
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,880
the tree is their home.
454
00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,920
And they're following their home
in the sky.
455
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,680
And, again, it's illustrated
in how the sky moves
456
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,120
because of the rotation of
the Earth.
457
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,400
Mouyi Mouyi are always following
their home in the sky.
458
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,000
What's different about
the dark emu compared to
459
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,640
the constellations
we've looked at here
460
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,200
is that the patterns we look for
with the dark emu
461
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:16,760
are the negative spaces,
462
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,360
the patches of gas and dust
that naturally block
463
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:22,280
the light from more distant stars
in the Milky Way galaxy.
464
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,880
And I can see it here.
465
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:26,120
So, underneath the Southern Cross,
And I can see it here.
466
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:28,640
So, underneath the Southern Cross,
you see this little patch here?
467
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,520
It's kind of like the head
and the beak of the emu.
468
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:31,760
It's kind of like the head
Yeah, yeah.
469
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:32,520
Yeah, yeah.
470
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,080
And then if you continue
along this way
471
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,600
towards the centre of the Milky Way,
that's kind of, like, the neck.
472
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:39,440
And then the...
I can see it!
473
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,320
..bulge of the Milky Way
is the body.
474
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,400
It's a very kind of long, lean emu.
475
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,600
Oh, it's huge. It's incredible.
476
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:54,080
Once you see this constellation,
you can't unsee it. It is amazing.
477
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,160
And in Wiradjuri,
we call him Gugurmin.
478
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,400
It's also really useful
in Wiradjuri culture.
479
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,920
Its position
in the night sky indicates
480
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,160
when is the right time to go
looking for emu eggs.
481
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,360
Fantastic.
482
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,160
Our fascination with the night
sky has inspired incredible stories
483
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,560
and exploration.
484
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,480
But with the commercialisation
of space travel,
485
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,040
how do we protect
these new frontiers?
486
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:21,280
how do we protect
This year, even the moon was listed
487
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:23,520
This year, even the moon was listed
488
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,840
as a threatened
cultural heritage site.
489
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,240
Amos.
Jess, hi.
490
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:28,480
Amos.
Hey. I'm Jess. Nice to meet you.
491
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:29,320
Hey. I'm Jess. Nice to meet you.
492
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,040
This is Amos Gebhardt,
493
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:31,280
an award-winning artist
and cinematographer.
This is Amos Gebhardt,
494
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,400
an award-winning artist
and cinematographer.
495
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,080
And I've come to visit
an installation
496
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:36,360
And I've come to visit
an installation
that treats the moon not as a place
to conquer, but as a collaborator.
497
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:40,720
that treats the moon not as a place
to conquer, but as a collaborator.
498
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,400
And this is Alexis.
499
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:43,640
These works,
like this award-winning portrait
And this is Alexis.
500
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,680
These works,
like this award-winning portrait
501
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,920
of Waanyi writer Alexis Wright,
502
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,120
were all created using the moon
as the only light source.
503
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,840
It's not the easiest thing
to work with with film,
504
00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:00,040
but it's got this
exquisite potential.
505
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:00,280
but it's got this
exquisite potential.
Goodness gracious. It's beautiful.
506
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,720
Goodness gracious. It's beautiful.
507
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,960
They're not just beautiful,
they're quietly powerful.
508
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,880
There's a deep intimacy to them.
509
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,280
I'm left with this visceral feeling
of stillness.
510
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,400
(SIGHS) I don't know,
when I stand in this room,
511
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,960
like, when we walked in,
I felt, like, a release.
512
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:25,200
like, when we walked in,
Yeah, yeah.
513
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:25,960
Yeah, yeah.
514
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,360
You know, like, there was just,
like, relaxation into the space.
515
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:30,080
Yeah.
Yeah.
516
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,200
There's something about being
under the moonlight together,
517
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,320
in the darkness and
the quietness of the nervous system.
518
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:36,560
in the darkness and
And to be there with a camera,
519
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:37,920
And to be there with a camera,
520
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,040
to kind of feel into
what might be able
521
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:42,920
to be photographed,
because you can't see everything.
522
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:44,520
There are kind of mysteries
that are hovering
523
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:44,760
There are kind of mysteries
on the edges of your vision.
524
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,120
on the edges of your vision.
525
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,600
There was an almost childlike awe
that kept coming out.
526
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,320
This body of work is called Mangata,
527
00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,360
a word that I haven't heard before
but won't be forgetting in a hurry.
528
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:00,600
a word that I haven't heard before
Mangata is a Swedish word
529
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,840
Mangata is a Swedish word
530
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,120
that translates literally
to "moon road".
531
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,640
It signifies that
extraordinary image
532
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,400
that the moon creates when it's
hanging over a body of water.
533
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:12,640
that the moon creates when it's
That kind of pathway towards itself
534
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,880
That kind of pathway towards itself
535
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,680
speaks to this idea of
a pathway into the unknown.
536
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,760
And the subjects of Amos's portraits
are all on that pathway.
537
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,800
They're visionaries, imagining
liberated collective futures.
538
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:38,480
Why do you think the moon is
such a potent symbol for change?
539
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,680
I think one of the things
that really struck me
540
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,120
was this idea of renewal,
541
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,400
where we see this celestial
companion constantly shrinking
542
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,840
and expanding,
and reminding us of change.
543
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,600
How do you feel about
human expansion into space?
544
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,680
Um, it strikes me as
a pathology, actually.
545
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,800
Um, in Aileen Moreton-Robinson's
interview, actually,
546
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:02,080
her grandparents raised her
on Quandamooka Country,
Um, in Aileen Moreton-Robinson's
interview, actually,
547
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,400
her grandparents raised her
on Quandamooka Country,
548
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,040
and, um, she came home one day,
as a little kid,
549
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:07,280
and, um, she came home one day,
as a little kid,
when man landed on the moon.
550
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:08,120
when man landed on the moon.
551
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,040
She was very excited
to her grandfather,
552
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,560
and he was just devastated.
553
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,320
Because he knew what it meant,
554
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,800
he knew that the implications
of conquest,
555
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,400
to expand into space in that way,
556
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:19,640
and that the arrogance
to expand into space in that way,
557
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,600
and that the arrogance
and the audacity.
558
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:21,840
and that the arrogance
Yeah, I sit on that fence, I think.
559
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,080
Yeah, I sit on that fence, I think.
560
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:24,920
Yeah.
561
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,440
I think if you can't experience awe
from the place that we're born into
562
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:29,680
I think if you can't experience awe
and onto, in balance with the Earth,
563
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,400
and onto, in balance with the Earth,
564
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:31,640
then I think there's
and onto, in balance with the Earth,
565
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,960
then I think there's
something out of whack.
566
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:35,200
then I think there's
Mm-hm. Mm.
567
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:36,360
Mm-hm. Mm.
568
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,280
Amos's words are so valid.
569
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,280
A reminder that our dreams
of space travel
570
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,920
are often intertwined with the
language of colonialism and empire.
571
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,840
MAN: Because that challenge is
one that we intend to win.
572
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,240
Those connections can be
hard to shake.
573
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,320
But what if we had a stronger
relationship with the stars
574
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:03,560
But what if we had a stronger
from here on Earth?
575
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,360
from here on Earth?
576
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,600
How would that change
the way we think about space?
577
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,600
Hi.
Hi, Jess.
578
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,760
Hey, Shireen. Nice to meet you.
Come in.
579
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,480
Nice to meet you, too.
How are you doing?
580
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,320
Great.
Is it always this tidy, or did...
581
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,360
Well, I mean, it's pretty messy
over there, but...
582
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:23,600
Well, I mean, it's pretty messy
Come on, it's beautiful in here.
583
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,720
Come on, it's beautiful in here.
584
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:24,960
It feels like a display home.
Come on, it's beautiful in here.
585
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,120
It feels like a display home.
Oh, no. (LAUGHS)
586
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,280
Shireen Taweel is an artist
whose connection to the stars
587
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,280
has taken her on
an extraordinary journey
588
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,880
and has forged a link between her
Lebanese-Australian heritage
589
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,200
and a science-fiction vision
of the future.
590
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,760
So, in the studio,
I've been investigating
591
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:51,000
So, in the studio,
celestial navigation technologies.
592
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,240
celestial navigation technologies.
593
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,200
And, really, it comes back to
the core materiality of copper
594
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:56,440
And, really, it comes back to
and its connection to science
595
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,320
and its connection to science
596
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:04,360
and astronomy and practice of time,
and its cultural connections.
597
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:07,080
The navigation devices
I've been delving into
598
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:07,320
The navigation devices
are from the Arabic sciences,
599
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,480
are from the Arabic sciences,
600
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,720
and they're made also
from precious metals,
601
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:10,960
and they're made also
like copper and brass and silver.
602
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,320
like copper and brass and silver.
603
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,480
Shireen hand-crafted
these three devices
604
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,360
used for navigating by the stars -
605
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,480
a quadrant, an astrolabe,
and a compass.
606
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,760
My tools are literally the same
as the astronomers' tools
607
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,040
you would have found
at an observatory
608
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:29,280
you would have found
up until, like, the last century.
609
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,520
up until, like, the last century.
610
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:32,480
Wow.
Yeah.
611
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:36,720
And, so, this is a rete, which is
the front face of an astrolabe.
612
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040
But what's so beautiful
about an astrolabe
613
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,600
is, like, you're holding the
universe in the palm of your hands.
614
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,280
And, so, within a device of
an astrolabe,
615
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:46,520
And, so, within a device of
which is kind of like a computer,
616
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,080
which is kind of like a computer,
617
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:48,320
each point you would find
which is kind of like a computer,
618
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,920
each point you would find
on the device
619
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,560
is actually pointing
to a specific star, yeah.
620
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,120
Wow.
Yeah.
621
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,360
There's something so beautiful about
how tactile and elemental it is,
622
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,120
and you're also exploring ideas
of, like...
623
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,040
Yeah.
..things that are so far beyond.
624
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:06,280
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.
625
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:07,120
Oh, absolutely.
626
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,600
And this materiality
has had such a play in astronomy.
627
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,440
Last year, Shireen went on
a pilgrimage,
628
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,600
a Hajj, following
a line towards Mecca
629
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,840
across Australia and New Zealand
for over 5,000 nautical miles.
630
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,360
And she used those
handmade instruments
631
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,040
and ancient navigation techniques
632
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:31,280
to plot a course using the stars
and ancient navigation techniques
633
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,120
to plot a course using the stars
in the night sky.
634
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,320
It was such
an extraordinary experience,
635
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,920
constantly being connected
to the night sky
636
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:48,120
and just literally, like, eyeballing
the star you're relating to.
637
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,360
It must be an incredible
feeling to be
638
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,360
so aware of your global location
in such a tactile way.
639
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:53,600
so aware of your global location
Oh, absolutely.
640
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,680
Oh, absolutely.
641
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,120
Like, you're so connected to
the whole of Earth at any time.
642
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,240
Shireen's journey was part of
an artwork called
643
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:02,480
Shireen's journey was part of
Pilgrimage Of A Hajjanaut,
644
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,280
Pilgrimage Of A Hajjanaut,
645
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,400
taking age-old practices
of faith and migration
646
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,240
and imagining what they would look
like on a journey into space.
647
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,080
Within, like, the Arab region,
for millennia,
648
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:18,320
Within, like, the Arab region,
we've been extraordinary travellers.
649
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,360
we've been extraordinary travellers.
650
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:26,560
We know the iconic pilgrim for Hajj
wears, like, the white garments.
651
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,080
I was wanting to fold in
the space garments,
652
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,120
but also it, like, unzips and
becomes a sacred space for prayer.
653
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,160
Did you get any, like, profound
insights from your process?
654
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,320
Well, it's definitely an experience
I'm still reflecting on.
655
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,240
Myself, being Lebanese Australian,
656
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,280
where my parents migrated here,
and having grown up here,
657
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,760
we've always had to think of
the future
658
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,400
and work towards that
sense of kind of survival
659
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,560
and establishing a sense of place
and belonging.
660
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:01,800
and establishing a sense of place
So, it's been really beautiful
661
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,120
So, it's been really beautiful
662
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,560
to think about future practices
663
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,440
that are also connected to off-Earth
experiences of the sacred.
664
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,400
If we are to journey out
into space as a species,
665
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:14,640
If we are to journey out
how do we not mess it up?
666
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,680
how do we not mess it up?
667
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:23,040
There needs to be far more diverse
voices in the activity of space,
668
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,560
because we're all connected to
the night sky
669
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,440
and we all come from paths
that have involved
670
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:28,680
and we all come from paths
really beautiful dialogues
671
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,440
really beautiful dialogues
672
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,520
and contributions
to our understanding of astronomy.
673
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:33,760
and contributions
Mm-hm.
674
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,560
Mm-hm.
675
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,080
It's incredible how Shireen's deep
research into the ancient past
676
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,000
brings us to the moment
we're in right now,
677
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,520
standing on the threshold
of the universe.
678
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,640
Why is it important for us
to go into space
679
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,240
with a collective approach, as
opposed to a competitive one?
680
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,960
Space is hard. Really hard.
681
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:58,960
Quote of the day.
682
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,520
Everything in space
wants to kill you,
683
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:00,760
Everything in space
from the vacuum to radiation.
684
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,000
from the vacuum to radiation.
685
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,280
It's extremely dangerous,
and that requires innovation.
686
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,360
And diversity is the fuel
for innovation.
687
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,800
The more diverse a group is,
the more likely it is to be creative
688
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,200
and come up with solutions
that we never thought of before.
689
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,440
And that's why diversity isn't
just the right thing to do,
690
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,440
it's mission critical to achieve
the dreams that we have in space.
691
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,880
I set out on this journey
to see if there was a way
692
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,400
we could explore space
without messing it up.
693
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:32,640
we could explore space
And like everything we humans do,
694
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,400
And like everything we humans do,
695
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,400
it's complicated
with no easy answers.
696
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,160
But I do think art offers a way
to keep our eyes open
697
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:42,400
But I do think art offers a way
and steer us in the right direction.
698
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,400
and steer us in the right direction.
699
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,440
And if our vision of the future
can make room for more voices,
700
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:49,720
then our next giant leap
into the unknown
And if our vision of the future
can make room for more voices,
701
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,080
then our next giant leap
into the unknown
702
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,880
could land us somewhere
truly incredible.