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Downloaded from
YTS.BZ

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.BZ

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Our other top local story

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on Eyewitness News at Noon--

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This is an incredible tale.

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Artists set up an apartment
inside Providence Place Mall,

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going undetected for years.

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WPRO-FM, Providence.

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It's 11:00 with the G-Man,

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rolling through
10 hits in a row,

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the most music every hour.

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♪ 92, 92 PRO FM ♪

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We were listening
to the radio,

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and this ad came on

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for the Providence Place Mall.

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It was this woman.

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She was a mom,
and she was talking about

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how great her life
was about to become,

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because it was going to be
so convenient for her

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to get everything
that she needed for her kids,

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for herself.

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If only she could live there.

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I just had this idea--

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"Oh. we should live
in the mall."

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Live at the mall.

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Like, it seemed like
a very absurd fantasy,

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and a great way
to plow through

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all of the negativity

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that had been built up for years

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in the loss of our homes

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and the homes of like
hundreds of people.

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And so Adriana and Andrew
and Jay and myself decided

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that we would go live there
for at least one week.

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It was more
of a game of survival--

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Who was gonna get
kicked out from security

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and who was gonna
last the longest.

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And I think we were
making bets about it.

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I definitely thought
that I was gonna

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live there the longest.

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I think, in my mind,
I was like,

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oh, we need to document.

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And I'm like, oh,
we need a sketchbook.

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And Mike's instinct
on the document was like,

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"All right, we all need to
have a point-and-shoot camera

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and be able to do video."

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We had a little camera

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called a Pentax Optio S4i.

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It is incredibly low-res
and the audio is terrible.

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It's not designed
for video.

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Interestingly, it fit inside
an Altoids can.

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In my hand,
that camera disappears,

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which meant that I could walk
through the mall

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with my arm like this.

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It sounds silly, but I would
forget it was there.

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It was a fair bit
of the food court.

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It was trying on clothes.

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You know, a funny kind of
teenage mall-hang existence.

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We ate
all the leftover food

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at the food court.

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We saw, like,
almost every movie

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at the movie theater,
which was awesome.

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But as the sun set,

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we started to internalize
the dilemma

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we'd put ourselves in,
which is we have no plan.

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Where are we gonna sleep?

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Jay and Andrew found

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a four-foot-by-four-foot
column in the parking garage

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that had an opening that
they could sneak up inside of.

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I was
in a really small space,

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unable to stretch out.

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I believe I slept in my jacket

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with my knees
kind of curled up to my chest.

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I've been camping
in some way, shape, or form

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since I was a small kid,

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and I've had a lot
of miserable nights out.

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And this is in
the pantheon of worst.

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The place
that Adriana and I find

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is based on my memory
of the mall's construction.

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When the mall was being built,

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I saw a space
that I could not figure out

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what it would be used for.

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It was a nowhere space,

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and I saw them store
construction materials on it,

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and I just sort of made
a mental note about it.

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I proposed that perhaps
the nowhere space, as it were,

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would give us shelter
for the night.

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And we went looking for that
anomaly in the architecture,

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and we snuck ourselves in there

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and we took out
our flashlights

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and we kept poking around.

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And it struck me
that the nowhere space,

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as it were,
must be up here somewhere.

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And we were able
to push ourselves up I-beams.

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And there it was.
And it was safe and secure.

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We're completely
off the radar.

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We weren't even
entirely sure

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where we were in the mall,
but there was

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the debris of construction
was still there,

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you know, four years later,
after the mall had opened.

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It was dirty.
It was truly abandoned.

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And we were like,
"Oh, this is great!"

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Mike been like,
come see the space I found.

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And so, like, we all went down
and into the bowels

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and saw the like cavern
that he had found.

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Looking around
at all the clues,

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it's like no one's
been in here

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since they built the mall.

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It started the conversation
immediately about like,

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wait, this is a lot of space.

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Maybe we have a responsibility
to do something with it.

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It was sort of agreed
pretty quickly

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that the couch was
the most important thing.

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Any time I went to
a hearing at City Hall

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for a new real estate
development,

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this term of "underutilized
space" kept coming up.

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It was almost like it was
a moral obligation

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on the part
of the developers

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to tap into this
underutilized space.

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It was almost like a crime.

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"We must extend
our progress,

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and it must fill in every gap
and crevice in the city

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until there's
a seamless development."

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And so this was like a funny
way of like itching back

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at that, of like,
"Well, we found some space."

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We need to develop
this underutilized space.

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And I remember
having this funny,

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jokey conversation about
being micro developers.

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You know, that seemed
really funny to us

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that we would
become developers,

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but just for 750 square feet.

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We put a bunch of ideas
on the table,

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some of them absolutely
ridiculous, you know,

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even about opening up
our own store.

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We're like,
"How would anybody visit it?"

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And we're like, "We can
just build a condominium,

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like right here."

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PlayStation.

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And, like, the couch,

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is the thing that sort of made
it a home immediately.

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Providence had at one time

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been one of the wealthiest
cities in the United States,

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and after World War II,

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inexorable decline
began to happen.

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Providence seemed little more

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than a parking lot by day

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and an abandoned city by night.

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Serious decline soon created
an uninviting,

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neglected environment.

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It wasn't until in
the mid 1980s, late 1980s,

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that the idea of a mall
became the centerpiece

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of the whole
Providence Renaissance.

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You wanted retail
to come back.

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You wanted performing
and visual arts.

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You wanted all the things that
Providence had been known for,

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all of those things that would
make Providence a destination

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and not just a drive-through
to another major city.

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The Providence Place Mall
was considered to be

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a major new engine

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to help the revitalization
effort take place.

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The city had began to lose
its retailing sales

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to the surrounding
suburban areas.

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But the mall
did not happen overnight.

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It took years
and multiple administrations

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in order for this to occur.

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It was a major building.

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While the mall
was being built,

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I really started
to internalize

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its impact on this city

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because all of a sudden
I literally couldn't see

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the city anymore.

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Look at this giant.

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Look at this thing.
It's totally overpowering.

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It looks like something out
of a science fiction movie.

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You got the statehouse, you
can't even see it anymore.

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They practically buried it.

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I mean, it was no
small task to move the rivers

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and to move
the railroad tracks,

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but I think it began to show
that things were happening.

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I remember the preview event

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and everybody coming
from all parts of New England.

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It wasn't even
just Rhode Island.

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This is a large mall.
Am I correct?

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Oh, definitely. You know,
3.5 million square feet.

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You don't get this type of mall

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in any city
and everything.

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It's very unique.

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It makes this
a destination city.

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So having
this big mall

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that represented
a big investment.

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It was kind of like
a new face for Providence.

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I think that was more
probably something

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that was aligned
with what politicians wanted,

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but not necessarily
for the communities,

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especially the adjacent
communities.

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We all hated them
all when it went up, right?

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Nobody wanted that to happen.
It was infuriating.

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Instead of putting the money
into downtown in general

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and supporting the businesses
that were already here,

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they built that monstrosity.

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We hated it.

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And then
as they started to sort of

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shore up the side
facing our neighborhood,

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I realized like, wait,
there's no entrances for us.

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This whole thing
faces the east side.

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00:13:03,825 --> 00:13:07,077
It wasn't designed to be used

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00:13:07,078 --> 00:13:09,246
by the people
from this neighborhood.

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00:13:09,247 --> 00:13:10,748
In a way,
it's like drawing a boundary

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00:13:10,749 --> 00:13:12,958
in between
a premium Providence

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00:13:12,959 --> 00:13:15,461
and then just like, you know,
the unattractive,

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kind of historically
excluded Providence.

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00:13:44,783 --> 00:13:47,201
By the time
the mall opened,

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there was a sense that more
changes were coming our way.

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00:13:53,416 --> 00:13:58,254
And there was a sense
of impending doom.

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Even before the Providence
Place Mall is complete,

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00:14:00,340 --> 00:14:02,174
developers are getting ready
to build

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00:14:02,175 --> 00:14:03,676
Providence Marketplace.

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00:14:03,677 --> 00:14:06,053
Even while
scaffolding still scales

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00:14:06,054 --> 00:14:09,890
the Providence Place Mall,
another huge project,

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00:14:09,891 --> 00:14:11,225
is in the works.

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00:14:11,226 --> 00:14:13,978
The Providence Place Mall

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00:14:13,979 --> 00:14:17,147
opened August of 1999,

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00:14:17,148 --> 00:14:21,402
and shortly after, a developer
came to the mills spaces

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00:14:21,403 --> 00:14:22,903
that we were living in

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00:14:22,904 --> 00:14:27,199
and put a proposal out
that perhaps the best way

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00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,034
to serve this neighborhood

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00:14:29,035 --> 00:14:33,914
was to knock down every
single mill in a 13-acre area

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00:14:33,915 --> 00:14:37,334
and replace it with a strip
mall and a supermarket.

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00:14:37,335 --> 00:14:39,211
So one of those buildings
they wanted to knock down

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00:14:39,212 --> 00:14:40,297
was Fort Thunder.

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00:14:44,968 --> 00:14:48,637
So behind the mall we see
the skeleton

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00:14:48,638 --> 00:14:50,472
of the industrial revolution.

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00:14:50,473 --> 00:14:52,808
It is mill building
after mill building.

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00:14:52,809 --> 00:14:56,145
And in the middle
of all this mill building mess

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00:14:56,146 --> 00:14:58,022
is called Eagle Square.

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00:14:58,023 --> 00:14:59,857
And in the heart
of Eagle Square

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00:14:59,858 --> 00:15:02,818
was a place
called Fort Thunder.

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00:15:02,819 --> 00:15:04,737
And I was very fortunate

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00:15:04,738 --> 00:15:06,405
to live there
for a couple of years.

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00:15:06,406 --> 00:15:09,366
Well, Fort Thunder
was a mill space.

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00:15:09,367 --> 00:15:13,370
It lasted, I think,
from '95 to like 2001.

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00:15:13,371 --> 00:15:15,664
It started out with four of us
renting this space.

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00:15:15,665 --> 00:15:17,791
My band Lightning Bolt
needed a place to practice

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00:15:17,792 --> 00:15:19,043
and we wanted to have shows.

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00:15:29,971 --> 00:15:31,805
The history of that area,

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00:15:31,806 --> 00:15:35,559
the history of,
is a really specific history

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00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,020
that you'll see
throughout New England.

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00:15:38,021 --> 00:15:39,855
There were these factories,

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00:15:39,856 --> 00:15:41,190
people would live
in the neighborhoods.

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00:15:41,191 --> 00:15:43,108
And then when
the manufacturing sector

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00:15:43,109 --> 00:15:45,110
was destroyed
in the United States,

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00:15:45,111 --> 00:15:46,779
it destroyed
these neighborhoods.

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00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:48,280
So if you were going to
Fort Thunder

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00:15:48,281 --> 00:15:50,199
for the first time,
it was scary.

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00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,117
It was sort of like this
secret playhouse for a while.

255
00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:54,161
They just wanted to have fun.
They wanted to create.

256
00:15:54,162 --> 00:15:57,373
They wanted to have
their own world there.

257
00:15:57,374 --> 00:15:59,541
You know,
museums were like crypts,

258
00:15:59,542 --> 00:16:01,418
graveyards for art.

259
00:16:01,419 --> 00:16:04,213
And our house was like
a living art creature

260
00:16:04,214 --> 00:16:05,798
that we lived within.

261
00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:08,384
I think it was like
emboldening, in a way,

262
00:16:08,385 --> 00:16:12,054
to have this kind of like
wild, untamed space,

263
00:16:12,055 --> 00:16:13,973
just like living
this really loud--

264
00:16:13,974 --> 00:16:15,517
literally, like very loud.

265
00:16:23,858 --> 00:16:25,317
So living in Fort Thunder

266
00:16:25,318 --> 00:16:28,988
is that sense of no routine,

267
00:16:28,989 --> 00:16:31,573
but a great sense of purpose.

268
00:16:31,574 --> 00:16:33,158
And then, you know,

269
00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:37,454
within a year
of that super heyday,

270
00:16:37,455 --> 00:16:38,748
a developer came in.

271
00:16:40,667 --> 00:16:42,584
People started
getting kicked out.

272
00:16:42,585 --> 00:16:45,672
And the city just started
looking at that area.

273
00:16:48,133 --> 00:16:50,718
These developers saw a great
opportunity for themselves

274
00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:53,846
because they knew that
they could buy these buildings

275
00:16:53,847 --> 00:16:55,724
and knock them down.

276
00:17:04,107 --> 00:17:06,650
The developer was
just looking at it

277
00:17:06,651 --> 00:17:08,777
as if it was any old parcel

278
00:17:08,778 --> 00:17:12,448
that could become
a suburban strip mall.

279
00:17:12,449 --> 00:17:14,158
I mean,
it's just an algorithm.

280
00:17:14,159 --> 00:17:16,410
They're like, "Oh, there's
room for a supermarket here

281
00:17:16,411 --> 00:17:18,328
because the property value
is so cheap.

282
00:17:18,329 --> 00:17:20,622
All we have to do is knock
down all these buildings."

283
00:17:20,623 --> 00:17:23,208
There was no outreach
to the community

284
00:17:23,209 --> 00:17:25,127
to talk about,
like, rent control

285
00:17:25,128 --> 00:17:28,255
and how under resourced
the community was.

286
00:17:28,256 --> 00:17:30,049
It's okay.
Like, change happens.

287
00:17:30,050 --> 00:17:34,970
There's nothing inherently
wrong or evil about it.

288
00:17:34,971 --> 00:17:39,725
But there was no effort
to bring people along.

289
00:17:39,726 --> 00:17:41,643
And I think that, in a way,

290
00:17:41,644 --> 00:17:43,812
Fort Thunder was like
the first strike.

291
00:17:43,813 --> 00:17:45,439
And I think
the real estate developers

292
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,899
were just starting
to understand

293
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:49,277
that there was
so much to exploit.

294
00:18:18,014 --> 00:18:21,350
When the Eagle Square
fiasco was unfolding,

295
00:18:21,351 --> 00:18:27,314
the mall becomes
this sort of cultural enemy.

296
00:18:27,315 --> 00:18:30,234
It becomes a sort of ogre
in the cave

297
00:18:30,235 --> 00:18:32,861
that the townsfolks
are afraid of.

298
00:18:32,862 --> 00:18:34,446
They're not sure
how big it is,

299
00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:36,490
but they just know
it's nasty.

300
00:18:36,491 --> 00:18:40,244
And so that tension
just boils over

301
00:18:40,245 --> 00:18:43,372
as soon as an actual person
comes in and says,

302
00:18:43,373 --> 00:18:45,583
"I'm gonna
knock down your home."

303
00:18:50,296 --> 00:18:52,422
People being evicted,
people losing their spaces,

304
00:18:52,423 --> 00:18:55,592
people getting kicked out,
people getting priced out

305
00:18:55,593 --> 00:18:57,845
was just sort of something
kind of happening.

306
00:18:57,846 --> 00:18:59,847
The mall comes, totally
remakes your neighborhood,

307
00:18:59,848 --> 00:19:01,598
you adjust.

308
00:19:01,599 --> 00:19:03,809
It doesn't adjust to you.
You adjust to it.

309
00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:05,644
And it was impossible

310
00:19:05,645 --> 00:19:09,607
to not see the apartment
project through that lens.

311
00:19:12,485 --> 00:19:13,987
Thank you.

312
00:19:15,738 --> 00:19:18,282
Thank you very much.
Thanks.

313
00:19:18,283 --> 00:19:19,534
All right.

314
00:19:42,974 --> 00:19:45,684
By this stage,
the group of people

315
00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:48,604
invited into the space
had grown from four to eight,

316
00:19:48,605 --> 00:19:52,065
and occasionally a few of us
would sleep there.

317
00:19:52,066 --> 00:19:55,444
But for the most part
it was a fantastic place

318
00:19:55,445 --> 00:19:57,530
to just meet and hang out.

319
00:20:03,578 --> 00:20:04,703
The mall project,
I think,

320
00:20:04,704 --> 00:20:07,956
it emerged
fairly organically.

321
00:20:07,957 --> 00:20:10,751
The main person who really
started the project

322
00:20:10,752 --> 00:20:12,878
and who had the initial idea
was Mike.

323
00:20:12,879 --> 00:20:15,339
It wasn't as though Mike
sat down and was like,

324
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:17,633
"I got to assemble
a supergroup of people

325
00:20:17,634 --> 00:20:20,177
in order to, like, create
this artists collective

326
00:20:20,178 --> 00:20:22,012
that will be
a public-facing thing."

327
00:20:24,098 --> 00:20:26,183
As with other projects
that Mike has done,

328
00:20:26,184 --> 00:20:27,434
he wanted to involve
the people

329
00:20:27,435 --> 00:20:29,019
who are in his life in it.

330
00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:30,979
He wanted to make it
a group project.

331
00:20:30,980 --> 00:20:32,940
Sort of notion
of consistency.

332
00:20:32,941 --> 00:20:36,318
Michael was the thread
that connected everybody.

333
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:39,821
A lot of folks he met
through his time teaching,

334
00:20:39,822 --> 00:20:41,281
and so they were students,

335
00:20:41,282 --> 00:20:42,574
former students of his.

336
00:20:42,575 --> 00:20:44,743
He and Adriana were married,

337
00:20:44,744 --> 00:20:48,747
and then the two of us were
in this grad program together.

338
00:20:48,748 --> 00:20:51,583
Everyone was
sort of very driven,

339
00:20:51,584 --> 00:20:54,461
but we were all real sort of
nerdy and weird.

340
00:20:54,462 --> 00:20:57,382
That group
felt really at home.

341
00:20:58,299 --> 00:21:00,635
We all felt
really fun together.

342
00:21:02,220 --> 00:21:04,680
It just sounds like
such a magic thing

343
00:21:04,681 --> 00:21:08,016
to take a space
from the mall.

344
00:21:08,017 --> 00:21:09,559
Like, it seems like
you shouldn't be able

345
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,728
to pull it off.

346
00:21:11,729 --> 00:21:13,146
So trying to pull it off,

347
00:21:13,147 --> 00:21:15,483
it feels like somebody
needs to do it.

348
00:21:18,695 --> 00:21:20,445
This was our group project

349
00:21:20,446 --> 00:21:22,531
and it was like a secret, right?

350
00:21:22,532 --> 00:21:24,116
And it was a secret pact.

351
00:21:24,117 --> 00:21:26,285
One, two, three.

352
00:21:26,286 --> 00:21:32,749
The big rule was to not bring
people from outside.

353
00:21:32,750 --> 00:21:35,294
So it was intended to be

354
00:21:35,295 --> 00:21:38,172
a fairly exclusive club,
I suppose.

355
00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:46,138
So there's this core
team of eight artists.

356
00:21:46,139 --> 00:21:49,808
That is essentially the brain
trust for the creation of it

357
00:21:49,809 --> 00:21:51,143
and the curation of it

358
00:21:51,144 --> 00:21:52,894
and the knowledge
of the mall space.

359
00:24:33,848 --> 00:24:36,600
You know, there's art
that you see and you enjoy

360
00:24:36,601 --> 00:24:38,018
and it entertains you.

361
00:24:38,019 --> 00:24:41,646
And then there's art
that impacts you.

362
00:24:41,647 --> 00:24:44,274
And that's the kind
of piece this was.

363
00:24:44,275 --> 00:24:49,237
It had an impact that was both
emotional and psychological

364
00:24:49,238 --> 00:24:55,452
and is not easily described,
which my favorite kind of art.

365
00:24:55,453 --> 00:24:57,746
My friend was like, "Hey,
you got to go see this.

366
00:24:57,747 --> 00:25:00,040
There's like
underneath the train tracks,

367
00:25:00,041 --> 00:25:01,416
there's actually
like this, like,

368
00:25:01,417 --> 00:25:04,878
weird, creepy art exhibit
that, like,

369
00:25:04,879 --> 00:25:07,631
felt like it was a mystery
who made it."

370
00:25:07,632 --> 00:25:10,383
So I actually had no idea
at the time

371
00:25:10,384 --> 00:25:12,219
anything about
why it was there.

372
00:25:12,220 --> 00:25:15,138
You opened up a hatch
and climbed down into--

373
00:25:15,139 --> 00:25:18,099
was like a sewer grate, basically.

374
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:21,561
And then kind of traverse
these few tunnels,

375
00:25:21,562 --> 00:25:24,272
and then it opened up
into a bigger open space,

376
00:25:24,273 --> 00:25:25,941
super wet, dank.

377
00:25:25,942 --> 00:25:28,485
But then there were these
sculptures of human bodies

378
00:25:28,486 --> 00:25:30,570
suspended all throughout
the space,

379
00:25:30,571 --> 00:25:33,156
and you could walk through
and sort of interact with them

380
00:25:33,157 --> 00:25:34,366
on your own terms.

381
00:25:34,367 --> 00:25:35,784
There's no signage.

382
00:25:35,785 --> 00:25:37,160
There's nobody
telling you anything

383
00:25:37,161 --> 00:25:38,913
about what
you're experiencing.

384
00:25:46,170 --> 00:25:49,297
There's one day when I spent

385
00:25:49,298 --> 00:25:51,258
a really long time
looking for it,

386
00:25:51,259 --> 00:25:53,218
and I couldn't figure out
how to get into it,

387
00:25:53,219 --> 00:25:55,262
but I never--
and I never figured it out.

388
00:25:55,263 --> 00:25:58,557
I think you had to, like,
go between the train tracks.

389
00:25:58,558 --> 00:26:00,058
I'm not even sure, actually,
where the entrance

390
00:26:00,059 --> 00:26:01,477
to the tunnel was now.

391
00:26:02,937 --> 00:26:03,979
I think that the body tunnel,

392
00:26:03,980 --> 00:26:05,480
you could call it a stunt,

393
00:26:05,481 --> 00:26:08,358
you could call it
an installation art piece.

394
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,861
What makes it art for me
is that it asks me

395
00:26:11,862 --> 00:26:13,863
to imagine
a setting for art

396
00:26:13,864 --> 00:26:15,198
that was not the setting

397
00:26:15,199 --> 00:26:16,909
that I had been told
art happened in.

398
00:26:22,582 --> 00:26:25,125
I'm not sure when I put
two and two together

399
00:26:25,126 --> 00:26:26,793
that it was Mike's piece.

400
00:26:26,794 --> 00:26:28,670
I think that probably
came much later.

401
00:26:28,671 --> 00:26:31,965
But, like, I just remember,
you know, that was like

402
00:26:31,966 --> 00:26:34,426
one of my favorite
secret spots

403
00:26:34,427 --> 00:26:36,052
in Providence to take people.

404
00:26:36,053 --> 00:26:38,597
And I think Michael
was very discreet about it.

405
00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:41,433
I don't think
he was promoting it.

406
00:26:41,434 --> 00:26:43,935
Him finding that tunnel
was, I think, an offshoot

407
00:26:43,936 --> 00:26:46,354
of just like
all of us exploring

408
00:26:46,355 --> 00:26:49,274
just whatever we could find.

409
00:26:49,275 --> 00:26:51,610
But where we were mostly
just exploring stuff,

410
00:26:51,611 --> 00:26:55,196
Michael was sort of putting
his artistic practice,

411
00:26:55,197 --> 00:26:56,489
like, into those spaces,

412
00:26:56,490 --> 00:26:58,825
like, putting things
in the spaces

413
00:26:58,826 --> 00:27:01,494
and messing around
with the spaces.

414
00:27:01,495 --> 00:27:03,205
He's always been
an inspiration.

415
00:27:22,516 --> 00:27:24,476
I went to
the RISD summer program,

416
00:27:24,477 --> 00:27:26,812
and Mike was
my drawing teacher.

417
00:27:28,648 --> 00:27:30,733
He did something very rare
and very unusual,

418
00:27:30,983 --> 00:27:32,567
which was that he expected you

419
00:27:32,568 --> 00:27:34,362
to have a genuine
personal connection

420
00:27:34,654 --> 00:27:36,279
to the work that you made.

421
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,156
It was a way of living,

422
00:27:38,157 --> 00:27:41,660
not some sort of produced
object that can be seen,

423
00:27:41,661 --> 00:27:44,079
you know, in a museum
or something like that.

424
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,664
Most of us--
myself certainly--

425
00:27:45,665 --> 00:27:47,165
came to that program thinking

426
00:27:47,166 --> 00:27:49,834
art is a thing
you do on paper.

427
00:27:49,835 --> 00:27:52,337
And Mike exploded
our understanding

428
00:27:52,338 --> 00:27:53,880
of what art is
or could be.

429
00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:59,219
So it was the start
of a decade of life

430
00:27:59,220 --> 00:28:03,098
that has had a massive
impact on me, yeah.

431
00:28:03,099 --> 00:28:05,600
Mike was like
a super involved teacher,

432
00:28:05,601 --> 00:28:07,852
like, different
than any teacher I had had

433
00:28:07,853 --> 00:28:10,563
up until that point,
for sure.

434
00:28:10,564 --> 00:28:14,442
He kind of approached art in
a different way, definitely,

435
00:28:14,443 --> 00:28:17,654
than anything like
I'd been exposed to before,

436
00:28:17,655 --> 00:28:20,740
where it was kind of like,

437
00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:22,909
what do you actually
want to make and why?

438
00:28:22,910 --> 00:28:24,911
What Michael was able
to introduce to me,

439
00:28:24,912 --> 00:28:26,663
which was so powerful
at that age,

440
00:28:26,664 --> 00:28:29,040
was that I could, uh--

441
00:28:29,041 --> 00:28:30,875
I could actually
just look inside myself

442
00:28:30,876 --> 00:28:33,587
and find things
that were worth sharing.

443
00:28:35,339 --> 00:28:36,798
So, yes, like that--

444
00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:40,343
that class with Mike
helped to galvanize me

445
00:28:40,344 --> 00:28:42,637
to find my way
to publicly engaged work.

446
00:28:42,638 --> 00:28:44,431
For Mike,
the difference between

447
00:28:44,432 --> 00:28:47,809
art and life
is very hard to discern.

448
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:50,896
Art and life are two
very porous things for him.

449
00:28:51,147 --> 00:28:52,939
And so he thinks
of art projects

450
00:28:52,940 --> 00:28:56,359
as being sort of deeply
incorporated into his life.

451
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,986
And that's something
you probably will hear

452
00:28:57,987 --> 00:28:59,821
from other people,

453
00:28:59,822 --> 00:29:02,991
this "life as art,
art as life" thing.

454
00:29:02,992 --> 00:29:05,243
And that's something that,
like, as a young person,

455
00:29:05,244 --> 00:29:08,288
it was super impactful
to see somebody

456
00:29:08,289 --> 00:29:12,292
living in a way that felt
like all of it was the art.

457
00:29:12,293 --> 00:29:14,544
The secret apartment
was the art,

458
00:29:14,545 --> 00:29:16,004
the teaching was the art.

459
00:29:16,005 --> 00:29:18,298
The interacting
with other people was the art.

460
00:29:18,299 --> 00:29:23,094
All the stuff together
is what makes life meaningful.

461
00:29:23,095 --> 00:29:24,387
And I think that's like

462
00:29:24,388 --> 00:29:25,847
something I've been
trying to do

463
00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:28,559
since I was a teenager.

464
00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:47,512
So the secret apartment,

465
00:30:47,513 --> 00:30:49,139
nestled down in here,

466
00:30:50,057 --> 00:30:52,559
kind of floating
above the train tracks,

467
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,895
kind of tucked in between
the back side

468
00:30:55,896 --> 00:30:57,313
of all the stores.

469
00:30:57,314 --> 00:30:59,357
We had a couple different ways
of getting in.

470
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:04,487
Our exterior entrance
was basically right alongside

471
00:31:04,488 --> 00:31:06,281
the train tracks.

472
00:31:06,282 --> 00:31:08,992
There was a gap
in between a couple of walls

473
00:31:08,993 --> 00:31:11,744
that would allow you
to get into

474
00:31:11,745 --> 00:31:14,414
the bowels of the building,
pretty much,

475
00:31:14,415 --> 00:31:16,207
and we were able
to shimmy along some walls

476
00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:20,004
to get access
to where the space was.

477
00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:24,090
Additionally,
we could get into

478
00:31:24,091 --> 00:31:29,095
the same zone of the mall
where the secret apartment was

479
00:31:29,096 --> 00:31:32,599
basically from
any emergency exit door

480
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:33,808
on this side of the building.

481
00:31:33,809 --> 00:31:35,476
That would lead you

482
00:31:35,477 --> 00:31:38,396
into a serpentine bunch
of staircases and hallways.

483
00:31:38,397 --> 00:31:40,648
Somewhere along
that serpentine path,

484
00:31:40,649 --> 00:31:42,066
there were a couple
different ways

485
00:31:42,067 --> 00:31:44,445
we could access
the secret apartment.

486
00:31:50,242 --> 00:31:51,826
Because this building
is made of

487
00:31:51,827 --> 00:31:53,536
a bunch of really odd shapes--

488
00:31:53,537 --> 00:31:57,540
you can see like the way that
the angle follows the river

489
00:31:57,541 --> 00:32:00,001
and the way that that curve
follows the highway.

490
00:32:00,002 --> 00:32:02,795
The building has a bunch
of weird intersecting shapes.

491
00:32:02,796 --> 00:32:04,714
So I think the space
that we discovered

492
00:32:04,715 --> 00:32:07,383
was really a negative space

493
00:32:07,384 --> 00:32:09,802
in between two planes
of the building,

494
00:32:09,803 --> 00:32:11,471
which created
sort of a triangle

495
00:32:11,472 --> 00:32:13,389
in between two parts
of the building,

496
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:15,725
which is where
the secret apartment was.

497
00:32:15,726 --> 00:32:21,105
The food court is this
sort of third level up here.

498
00:32:21,106 --> 00:32:22,523
And the bathrooms--

499
00:32:22,524 --> 00:32:26,861
I think our most
frequently used bathroom

500
00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:28,529
was on the first floor,

501
00:32:28,530 --> 00:32:31,616
sort of like the main
retail drag of the mall.

502
00:32:31,617 --> 00:32:33,826
There were bathrooms
on each floor.

503
00:32:33,827 --> 00:32:35,745
I feel like we used the ones
on the first floor the most

504
00:32:35,746 --> 00:32:37,456
because they were closest
to the entrance.

505
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:43,419
So the secret apartment
being down in here,

506
00:32:43,420 --> 00:32:45,922
we can have a look at it by

507
00:32:45,923 --> 00:32:50,886
taking this roof off and...

508
00:32:56,183 --> 00:32:58,476
Can pull that out.

509
00:32:58,477 --> 00:33:02,772
So there's Andrew,
James, Jay,

510
00:33:02,773 --> 00:33:07,944
myself, Emily,
Greta, Adriana, and Michael

511
00:33:07,945 --> 00:33:11,115
all hanging out
in the space together.

512
00:33:14,576 --> 00:33:18,371
So additionally, just for fun,
hidden in here

513
00:33:18,372 --> 00:33:21,582
is the Optio S5i.

514
00:33:21,583 --> 00:33:23,376
Amazingly it still works.

515
00:33:23,377 --> 00:33:25,336
Just needed a charge
of the battery.

516
00:33:25,337 --> 00:33:27,005
I can probably sneak a little

517
00:33:27,006 --> 00:33:30,759
picture of the apartment
or two if it'll focus.

518
00:33:48,569 --> 00:33:51,237
Once we wanted to
really make this

519
00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:53,406
an apartment
that was ours,

520
00:33:53,407 --> 00:33:57,243
as opposed to just
a room in the mall,

521
00:33:57,244 --> 00:33:59,579
we decided we needed to make it

522
00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:01,122
so we had access to it

523
00:34:01,123 --> 00:34:03,166
without having other people
have access to it.

524
00:34:03,167 --> 00:34:07,211
So the apartment in the mall
had this big gaping space

525
00:34:07,212 --> 00:34:10,173
that looked down
into a storage area.

526
00:34:10,174 --> 00:34:13,176
You would come up
this steep metal staircase

527
00:34:13,177 --> 00:34:14,969
and you would just be
looking into the apartment.

528
00:34:14,970 --> 00:34:18,682
So there was a real necessity
to build a wall there.

529
00:34:43,123 --> 00:34:45,958
Building a wall was
going to be the thing

530
00:34:45,959 --> 00:34:49,212
that made it even more
invisible, in the sense that,

531
00:34:49,213 --> 00:34:52,799
like, another cinder-block
wall with another door

532
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:54,217
just becomes another thing

533
00:34:54,218 --> 00:34:56,177
that if anyone walks
through the space

534
00:34:56,178 --> 00:34:57,637
they're not gonna
bat an eye at.

535
00:35:41,014 --> 00:35:43,766
Obviously, the main
feat of that whole thing

536
00:35:43,767 --> 00:35:45,893
was just moving
that many cinder blocks.

537
00:35:45,894 --> 00:35:47,103
I think, you know,
we calculated

538
00:35:47,104 --> 00:35:48,563
it was like, you know,

539
00:35:48,564 --> 00:35:51,440
4,500 or 5,000 pounds
of cinder blocks.

540
00:35:51,441 --> 00:35:53,067
So that was, you know,
a couple of tons.

541
00:36:38,780 --> 00:36:40,448
In regards to security,

542
00:36:40,449 --> 00:36:42,408
we were thinking
about it all the time.

543
00:36:42,409 --> 00:36:45,411
They're a constant presence
in our mind.

544
00:36:45,412 --> 00:36:47,288
But it's important
to emphasize

545
00:36:47,289 --> 00:36:49,999
that there's no--
no part of me

546
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,877
that has any interest
in duping security.

547
00:36:52,878 --> 00:36:57,590
I don't-- I don't feel
any thrill in that.

548
00:36:57,591 --> 00:37:00,718
They have a job to do.
I respect that job.

549
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,888
I also just want to do my job.

550
00:37:57,943 --> 00:38:01,320
There was no way
to prepare for it.

551
00:38:01,321 --> 00:38:03,531
Like, we didn't know
what circumstances

552
00:38:03,532 --> 00:38:05,950
would trigger
us being caught.

553
00:38:05,951 --> 00:38:09,954
We had no idea
who would approach us or, uh,

554
00:38:09,955 --> 00:38:13,332
and what level of hostility
it would be.

555
00:38:13,333 --> 00:38:17,920
We just would be ready
to explain ourselves

556
00:38:17,921 --> 00:38:19,422
in whatever moment unfolded.

557
00:38:19,423 --> 00:38:22,967
Now, I have,
up until that point,

558
00:38:22,968 --> 00:38:25,845
a career
in explaining myself.

559
00:38:25,846 --> 00:38:28,097
My work as an artist

560
00:38:28,098 --> 00:38:32,101
means that I am constantly
explaining my presence

561
00:38:32,102 --> 00:38:35,521
to police officers,
to city officials.

562
00:38:35,522 --> 00:38:38,607
It is a space
I feel very comfortable in.

563
00:38:38,608 --> 00:38:42,028
You know,
we were on a multileg journey

564
00:38:42,029 --> 00:38:43,988
coming from Home Depot.

565
00:38:43,989 --> 00:38:45,656
You know, we got these
cinder blocks at Home Depot,

566
00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:47,241
and now we're going
to the mall.

567
00:39:14,186 --> 00:39:17,063
So, yeah,
it's, uh, kind of amazing.

568
00:39:17,064 --> 00:39:19,357
I told this security guard

569
00:39:19,358 --> 00:39:20,775
that we had gone to
Home Depot,

570
00:39:20,776 --> 00:39:22,443
filled the car
with cinder blocks,

571
00:39:22,444 --> 00:39:24,528
come to the mall,
had done some shopping,

572
00:39:24,529 --> 00:39:28,407
and came back to a car
that could not move.

573
00:39:28,408 --> 00:39:30,993
So we had arranged to move
the cinder blocks

574
00:39:30,994 --> 00:39:33,662
down the stairwell
to an awaiting friend's truck,

575
00:39:33,663 --> 00:39:36,999
and he let us
on our way.

576
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,755
And I know that has a lot to
do with just who we were.

577
00:39:43,298 --> 00:39:45,674
I'm certain,
looking back on it,

578
00:39:45,675 --> 00:39:49,054
that we had like a shield
of white privilege around us.

579
00:39:54,851 --> 00:39:57,728
Black and brown people
in the same space

580
00:39:57,729 --> 00:40:00,648
doing illegal things, or doing
even not illegal things,

581
00:40:00,649 --> 00:40:02,817
are not treated that way
and would not be treated

582
00:40:02,818 --> 00:40:05,612
with the same deference
as we were.

583
00:40:10,951 --> 00:40:14,745
My fear of
the police is not the same.

584
00:40:14,746 --> 00:40:18,040
I'm not worried about risk
to my body and life.

585
00:40:30,554 --> 00:40:32,263
You know,
simultaneously to this,

586
00:40:32,264 --> 00:40:37,518
I was working with Mike
on Tape Art,

587
00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:41,897
uh, which is
Mike's sort of organization

588
00:40:41,898 --> 00:40:43,774
that will go around
and do public murals,

589
00:40:43,775 --> 00:40:46,902
do temporary public murals
made out of masking tape.

590
00:40:46,903 --> 00:40:48,738
One of the more notable ones
was going

591
00:40:49,322 --> 00:40:52,325
to Hasbro Children's Hospital
and making murals there.

592
00:40:55,287 --> 00:40:58,914
I first became aware
of Tape Art

593
00:40:58,915 --> 00:41:01,459
and heard about Michael

594
00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:03,586
through probably
some artist friends,

595
00:41:03,587 --> 00:41:05,337
that there was some guy
out there

596
00:41:05,338 --> 00:41:08,757
who was using tape
and drawing on the wall.

597
00:41:08,758 --> 00:41:11,886
And I thought,
"I don't know. This is...

598
00:41:11,887 --> 00:41:16,056
Sounds quirky and kooky,
and what does he do?

599
00:41:16,057 --> 00:41:19,059
I mean, how is this
gonna appeal to kids?"

600
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:21,563
So I had a lot of questions.

601
00:41:23,315 --> 00:41:27,151
Tape art is
a unique process.

602
00:41:27,152 --> 00:41:29,069
I don't know
any other artists, frankly,

603
00:41:29,070 --> 00:41:30,404
who are doing tape art.

604
00:41:30,405 --> 00:41:32,239
Michael was the first one I met,

605
00:41:32,240 --> 00:41:34,074
and I've never met
anybody since.

606
00:41:34,075 --> 00:41:36,994
I think I was fascinated
by the uniqueness.

607
00:41:36,995 --> 00:41:41,665
So the more I watched him,
the more I realized that,

608
00:41:41,666 --> 00:41:45,669
you know, he was truly a master.

609
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:48,589
The patients'
immediate reaction is,

610
00:41:48,590 --> 00:41:51,008
first of all, they're very
open to something new.

611
00:41:51,009 --> 00:41:53,469
And it was, again,
a little odd.

612
00:41:53,470 --> 00:41:56,096
It wasn't somebody coming in
with drawing paper

613
00:41:56,097 --> 00:41:57,807
and a brush or crayons.

614
00:41:58,391 --> 00:42:00,726
It was somebody coming in
with five rolls of blue tape

615
00:42:00,727 --> 00:42:03,687
on his arm
and swinging them around.

616
00:42:03,688 --> 00:42:05,606
And then the kid
would often say,

617
00:42:05,607 --> 00:42:07,608
"Oh, you know,
what's going on?

618
00:42:07,609 --> 00:42:09,318
What are you gonna do
with that tape?"

619
00:42:09,319 --> 00:42:11,196
And Michael would
take it from there.

620
00:42:20,413 --> 00:42:23,792
Michael did have
a crew of people.

621
00:42:32,884 --> 00:42:34,094
You know, what they drew,

622
00:42:34,386 --> 00:42:37,888
the mice and the horses
and the mermaids,

623
00:42:37,889 --> 00:42:39,765
it was that they were able to

624
00:42:39,766 --> 00:42:44,478
engage the child
in conversation about,

625
00:42:44,479 --> 00:42:46,355
"What do you want
on your wall?"

626
00:42:46,356 --> 00:42:49,525
so that when Michael and his
team walked into the room,

627
00:42:49,526 --> 00:42:52,987
he didn't come in with an idea
of what he was gonna do.

628
00:42:52,988 --> 00:42:55,447
He let the child lead him.

629
00:42:55,448 --> 00:42:58,659
And when possible, of course,
if the patient was mobile,

630
00:42:58,660 --> 00:43:01,579
they'd engage the patient
in actually helping him

631
00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:04,206
to create the mural.

632
00:43:04,207 --> 00:43:07,126
But now the patient
is involved

633
00:43:07,127 --> 00:43:09,712
in a creative activity

634
00:43:09,713 --> 00:43:12,298
and has a responsibility
to seeing

635
00:43:12,299 --> 00:43:14,592
what's happening
on the wall of his room

636
00:43:14,593 --> 00:43:19,471
and changing his environment,
having a sense of control.

637
00:43:19,472 --> 00:43:23,058
So I think that
the patient just got lost.

638
00:43:23,059 --> 00:43:26,353
Could be for 15 minutes
and it could have been,

639
00:43:26,354 --> 00:43:28,565
you know,
for a couple of hours.

640
00:43:31,276 --> 00:43:35,321
Michael was coming in
at least once a week,

641
00:43:35,322 --> 00:43:38,824
and he was one of
the first people that I hired.

642
00:43:38,825 --> 00:43:40,784
So I would say he was, yeah,

643
00:43:40,785 --> 00:43:44,080
he was here for
at least 15 years.

644
00:43:47,834 --> 00:43:51,003
Funding was tough,
but free lunch was provided.

645
00:43:51,004 --> 00:43:53,213
If they came in the morning,
they could stay for lunch.

646
00:43:53,214 --> 00:43:55,924
If they came in the afternoon,
they could come early

647
00:43:55,925 --> 00:43:59,720
and we always provided
a free lunch for them.

648
00:43:59,721 --> 00:44:02,681
And I think they were
pretty grateful for that

649
00:44:02,682 --> 00:44:04,933
because I don't think
many of them--

650
00:44:04,934 --> 00:44:06,603
I don't think they ate
during the day.

651
00:44:08,021 --> 00:44:11,231
I think one of the first
questions kids and staff

652
00:44:11,232 --> 00:44:13,525
and families always asked,

653
00:44:13,526 --> 00:44:15,944
"What's gonna happen
to this mural now

654
00:44:15,945 --> 00:44:17,488
that's on the wall?"

655
00:44:17,489 --> 00:44:21,492
And Michael always
made it very clear

656
00:44:21,493 --> 00:44:23,410
that there was
an impermanence,

657
00:44:23,411 --> 00:44:26,455
and it was really
for the here and now.

658
00:44:26,456 --> 00:44:29,583
He said, you know, "We'll
create a new one tomorrow,

659
00:44:29,584 --> 00:44:31,419
think of something
new that we could do."

660
00:44:41,346 --> 00:44:43,597
So Michael had
an interesting beginning.

661
00:44:43,598 --> 00:44:45,349
Because his father was
in the Marine Corps,

662
00:44:45,350 --> 00:44:48,227
we lived in eight
different places

663
00:44:48,228 --> 00:44:51,021
before he was seven years old.

664
00:44:51,022 --> 00:44:52,981
I think it made him
very open-minded.

665
00:44:52,982 --> 00:44:57,778
I think Michael takes
in all kinds of people,

666
00:44:57,779 --> 00:45:01,198
all kinds of social situations.

667
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:05,077
So, basically, I think
that's what's made him

668
00:45:05,078 --> 00:45:07,287
someone who's at home anywhere.

669
00:45:07,288 --> 00:45:09,790
So let's get you
this one

670
00:45:09,791 --> 00:45:11,458
and this one,
the blue one.

671
00:45:11,459 --> 00:45:14,962
Basically it's like a form
of like, of...

672
00:45:14,963 --> 00:45:16,797
- Temporary graffiti.
- Temporary graffiti.

673
00:45:16,798 --> 00:45:19,383
And it gives you
a lot of freedom.

674
00:45:19,384 --> 00:45:21,468
So I was brought up
in a military family.

675
00:45:21,469 --> 00:45:24,513
Both my parents
were in the military

676
00:45:24,514 --> 00:45:26,140
and their parents
were in the military,

677
00:45:26,141 --> 00:45:27,975
and I believe their parents
were in the military.

678
00:45:27,976 --> 00:45:30,352
So my brother and I were
the first ones to sort of, uh,

679
00:45:30,353 --> 00:45:31,895
break that lineage.

680
00:45:31,896 --> 00:45:35,608
In Mike's case,
um, hmm...

681
00:45:36,609 --> 00:45:39,528
I don't want to speak for him,
but it just was never--

682
00:45:39,529 --> 00:45:41,238
never seemed like it would be
a good fit for him.

683
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,992
He was far too creative
growing up,

684
00:45:44,993 --> 00:45:46,785
and I think a military career
would have restricted

685
00:45:46,786 --> 00:45:49,873
his level of creativity
that just abounded.

686
00:45:51,249 --> 00:45:53,417
No words or letters
are the only rule.

687
00:45:53,418 --> 00:45:55,169
Good luck.
Let's work on that together.

688
00:45:55,170 --> 00:45:58,130
Make sure you got
that one technique down.

689
00:45:58,131 --> 00:46:01,175
Don't pull it.
Just let it hang.

690
00:46:01,176 --> 00:46:02,843
And very gently...

691
00:46:02,844 --> 00:46:04,011
That looks really good.

692
00:46:04,012 --> 00:46:06,054
- Okay.
- Yeah. Keep going, keep going.

693
00:46:06,055 --> 00:46:09,934
Michael as a person
is all about

694
00:46:11,352 --> 00:46:13,395
involving people

695
00:46:13,396 --> 00:46:15,564
in a collaborative process
of art.

696
00:46:15,565 --> 00:46:17,357
And I've seen that
in a lot of cases

697
00:46:17,358 --> 00:46:22,905
that he's just
a very selfless person.

698
00:46:22,906 --> 00:46:26,074
And that is
something really--

699
00:46:26,075 --> 00:46:29,244
yeah, that is something really
special about Michael, yeah.

700
00:46:29,245 --> 00:46:31,163
So the cynic might say
that you're not gonna make

701
00:46:31,164 --> 00:46:32,706
the world
a better place with your art,

702
00:46:32,707 --> 00:46:34,124
but, like, maybe you're not
gonna make

703
00:46:34,125 --> 00:46:36,502
the entire world
a little better,

704
00:46:36,503 --> 00:46:39,296
but maybe you'll make
one person's life better

705
00:46:39,297 --> 00:46:40,756
and then somebody else's
life better.

706
00:46:40,757 --> 00:46:42,675
It becomes the
"ripples in the pond" effect.

707
00:46:45,804 --> 00:46:49,139
So the main
priorities in my career

708
00:46:49,140 --> 00:46:51,099
have always been making art
and teaching art,

709
00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:54,728
and trying to use that art
to have positive impacts

710
00:46:54,729 --> 00:46:56,772
on other people's lives.

711
00:46:56,773 --> 00:47:00,026
There's not a lot
of money in that.

712
00:47:01,152 --> 00:47:02,820
I work
at a nonprofit museum.

713
00:47:02,821 --> 00:47:04,196
Michael is an artist.

714
00:47:04,197 --> 00:47:06,824
We are not swimming in money,
either of us.

715
00:47:06,825 --> 00:47:08,700
And Michael does...

716
00:47:08,701 --> 00:47:10,828
He takes it...

717
00:47:10,829 --> 00:47:13,163
Sometimes he doesn't
take it seriously,

718
00:47:13,164 --> 00:47:15,290
and I've gotten upset.

719
00:47:15,291 --> 00:47:18,794
Like, he will text me pictures
of his bank account

720
00:47:18,795 --> 00:47:22,172
that has 41 cents,
and he thinks that's funny.

721
00:47:22,173 --> 00:47:25,259
And I see the text, and
I'm like, "This is not funny."

722
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:26,552
And I've had to talk
to him about like,

723
00:47:26,553 --> 00:47:27,928
"Could you please
not send me this

724
00:47:27,929 --> 00:47:29,264
when you have
like a dollar?"

725
00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:32,809
Like, this doesn't
make me laugh, personally.

726
00:50:17,348 --> 00:50:19,641
After we had
a little run-in with security,

727
00:50:19,642 --> 00:50:22,019
that encounter forced us
to rethink

728
00:50:22,020 --> 00:50:23,895
how we're bringing
the cinder blocks in.

729
00:50:23,896 --> 00:50:27,400
And we're like, well,
we have a private entrance.

730
00:50:29,527 --> 00:50:31,111
So the entrance we had used

731
00:50:31,112 --> 00:50:33,113
to initially
discover the space

732
00:50:33,114 --> 00:50:34,740
in the first place
became the way

733
00:50:34,741 --> 00:50:37,117
that we'd bring
the cinder blocks in.

734
00:52:00,952 --> 00:52:04,204
So at the same time
the core group of eight of us

735
00:52:04,205 --> 00:52:05,789
were working in the apartment
in the mall,

736
00:52:05,790 --> 00:52:09,126
we also took a trip collectively

737
00:52:09,127 --> 00:52:12,170
to go to Oklahoma City
for the 10th anniversary

738
00:52:12,171 --> 00:52:17,467
of the Alfred P. Murrah
Federal Building bombing.

739
00:52:17,468 --> 00:52:20,345
Mike was there doing tape art
in Oklahoma City

740
00:52:20,346 --> 00:52:22,848
when that happened
and made a mural.

741
00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:26,184
I think he was the only
nonmedical personnel

742
00:52:26,185 --> 00:52:28,103
allowed in the home base

743
00:52:28,104 --> 00:52:30,939
and made a mural
for the, basically,

744
00:52:30,940 --> 00:52:34,235
the sole audience
of the first responders.

745
00:52:35,236 --> 00:52:37,612
Folks seem to
like the idea of it being

746
00:52:37,613 --> 00:52:39,531
an optimism mural, that--

747
00:52:39,532 --> 00:52:42,784
more about individuals
being able to have

748
00:52:42,785 --> 00:52:44,452
freedom and flight,

749
00:52:44,453 --> 00:52:46,413
and maybe through the help
of other people

750
00:52:46,414 --> 00:52:48,291
they can achieve that.

751
00:52:57,216 --> 00:53:00,093
So we planned a trip
back to OKC,

752
00:53:00,094 --> 00:53:03,180
like on the anniversary
of the bombing

753
00:53:03,181 --> 00:53:06,350
to kind of do more artwork
with the community.

754
00:53:21,073 --> 00:53:23,575
The group of us spent
a full week there working

755
00:53:23,576 --> 00:53:27,954
at like a memorial site
and doing projects in schools,

756
00:53:27,955 --> 00:53:31,166
basically like a little
elite strike force team

757
00:53:31,167 --> 00:53:33,919
of empathetic artists.

758
00:53:37,173 --> 00:53:39,633
I don't think that
artists are obliged to go out

759
00:53:39,634 --> 00:53:41,176
and do good works,

760
00:53:41,177 --> 00:53:43,345
or to try to pretend
that making art

761
00:53:43,346 --> 00:53:46,181
has to sort of like save the
world or feed the children,

762
00:53:46,182 --> 00:53:48,099
or do any kind of like,
you know,

763
00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:50,101
nice crunchy thing
that people might want.

764
00:53:50,102 --> 00:53:53,772
But if you can and if there's
an opportunity, why not?

765
00:53:53,773 --> 00:53:55,065
You have the chance
to use a skill

766
00:53:55,066 --> 00:53:57,484
that you have
to do something good.

767
00:53:57,485 --> 00:54:00,737
And also, you know,
I do really believe that

768
00:54:00,738 --> 00:54:03,573
art and aesthetic experience
are good in and of themselves,

769
00:54:03,574 --> 00:54:05,242
that they're not means
to anything

770
00:54:05,243 --> 00:54:07,119
but that they make life better.

771
00:54:33,145 --> 00:54:34,522
It's funny.

772
00:54:36,148 --> 00:54:40,819
I imagine when people heard
like the one snippet of

773
00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:43,238
"there was an apartment
in the mall,"

774
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:45,240
it's not the first thing that
they think people would be

775
00:54:45,241 --> 00:54:47,117
using it for is

776
00:54:47,118 --> 00:54:49,786
kind of planning
and discussing things

777
00:54:49,787 --> 00:54:54,875
around these big public art
projects that we were doing.

778
00:55:38,753 --> 00:55:40,587
The central project
in our life

779
00:55:40,588 --> 00:55:42,172
was the September 11th
memorial.

780
00:55:42,173 --> 00:55:44,424
It was all-consuming.

781
00:55:44,425 --> 00:55:47,177
We had, uh, made the decision

782
00:55:47,178 --> 00:55:51,222
to draw 500 portraits,
life-size,

783
00:55:51,223 --> 00:55:53,767
simple silhouettes,
of every fireman

784
00:55:53,768 --> 00:55:55,186
and every airline passenger

785
00:55:55,311 --> 00:55:57,730
that passed away
at the World Trade Center.

786
00:56:02,193 --> 00:56:03,611
Okay.

787
00:56:04,403 --> 00:56:06,072
Saracini.

788
00:56:08,115 --> 00:56:10,367
Number 38, heart one.
He's here.

789
00:56:10,368 --> 00:56:14,871
We're gonna walk to the other
side of this square right here

790
00:56:14,872 --> 00:56:18,708
and put a figure.

791
00:56:18,709 --> 00:56:22,420
Sir Russell is gonna be
about a block that direction.

792
00:56:22,421 --> 00:56:24,672
Mike had drawn these
four large hearts

793
00:56:24,673 --> 00:56:26,049
over the island of Manhattan,

794
00:56:26,050 --> 00:56:28,301
and we would basically
go down to New York,

795
00:56:28,302 --> 00:56:31,304
we'd follow that path and just
find locations on that to try

796
00:56:31,305 --> 00:56:33,348
and do a drawing of a figure.

797
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:35,600
And we'd document it

798
00:56:35,601 --> 00:56:38,395
and then this, like,
Web memorial, we'd go back

799
00:56:38,396 --> 00:56:39,687
and make sort of like
a Web page

800
00:56:39,688 --> 00:56:41,231
showcasing that documentation.

801
00:56:41,232 --> 00:56:45,610
Portraits of people
who died on September 11th

802
00:56:45,611 --> 00:56:47,654
along the path of four hearts.

803
00:56:47,655 --> 00:56:50,115
So, like walking those paths
and drawing,

804
00:56:50,116 --> 00:56:51,908
I think, every block, a person.

805
00:56:51,909 --> 00:56:54,536
And those were
all temporary drawings.

806
00:56:54,537 --> 00:56:55,912
You know, you're in public,

807
00:56:55,913 --> 00:56:57,705
you're in the streets
of Manhattan,

808
00:56:57,706 --> 00:56:59,374
you're trying to go quick.

809
00:56:59,375 --> 00:57:02,710
We almost never had permission
to make the work.

810
00:57:02,711 --> 00:57:05,463
So you're trying
to not get busted.

811
00:57:05,464 --> 00:57:07,590
If you got busted, you could
just remove the mural.

812
00:57:07,591 --> 00:57:09,426
The tape is impermanent,

813
00:57:09,427 --> 00:57:12,762
but as far as tape art goes,
kind of intense scenario.

814
00:57:12,763 --> 00:57:15,640
You're trying to honor
the circumstance,

815
00:57:15,641 --> 00:57:17,058
the people you're representing,

816
00:57:17,059 --> 00:57:18,768
and the seriousness of it all.

817
00:57:18,769 --> 00:57:21,813
But you're also interacting
with people in the public

818
00:57:21,814 --> 00:57:23,731
who are curious to know
what you're doing

819
00:57:23,732 --> 00:57:25,567
or if it's illegal.

820
00:57:25,568 --> 00:57:29,654
Yeah, it was like
a great drawing challenge.

821
00:57:29,655 --> 00:57:31,448
- See these four hearts here?
- Yeah.

822
00:57:31,449 --> 00:57:33,491
These four hearts span
the entirety of Manhattan.

823
00:57:33,492 --> 00:57:35,618
- One, two three, four.
- Yep.

824
00:57:35,619 --> 00:57:39,456
And right now we are
working on heart one.

825
00:57:39,457 --> 00:57:42,459
So we're right now
right about here.

826
00:57:42,460 --> 00:57:46,713
And these hearts, if you were
to connect the dots

827
00:57:46,714 --> 00:57:49,299
between all of these figures
that we're drawing,

828
00:57:49,300 --> 00:57:50,508
you would be drawing out

829
00:57:50,509 --> 00:57:53,303
these fantastically
large hearts.

830
00:57:53,304 --> 00:57:54,971
Wow.

831
00:57:54,972 --> 00:57:58,725
We would hop in the car,
in Mike's Toyota,

832
00:57:58,726 --> 00:58:02,562
and drive to New York
to do drawings

833
00:58:02,563 --> 00:58:04,981
over the course
of a couple of days

834
00:58:04,982 --> 00:58:06,900
with a goal
some section of a heart,

835
00:58:06,901 --> 00:58:09,110
and then,
with the documentation,

836
00:58:09,111 --> 00:58:10,987
we would head back
to Providence,

837
00:58:10,988 --> 00:58:14,574
where we would compile
the next set of collages.

838
00:58:14,575 --> 00:58:16,284
And then once a good window

839
00:58:16,285 --> 00:58:18,786
presented itself to head
back to New York,

840
00:58:18,787 --> 00:58:22,999
we'd hop back in the car
and get to it.

841
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,294
It took a long time.
Uh, years.

842
00:58:26,295 --> 00:58:27,962
This project, when it started,

843
00:58:27,963 --> 00:58:31,216
we thought maybe two,
three years,

844
00:58:31,217 --> 00:58:33,593
stretched out to five years.

845
00:58:33,594 --> 00:58:36,054
All of these efforts
pretty much, like,

846
00:58:36,055 --> 00:58:38,056
was all volunteer.

847
00:58:38,057 --> 00:58:40,725
The Hope Project
was completely self-funded.

848
00:58:40,726 --> 00:58:43,603
I mean, I know that
Mike's-- every bit of money

849
00:58:43,604 --> 00:58:45,688
that he made
went directly back

850
00:58:45,689 --> 00:58:50,276
into paying
for the Hope Project.

851
00:58:50,277 --> 00:58:52,195
Mostly the paying for it was,

852
00:58:52,196 --> 00:58:55,740
you know, all of our labor
was completely volunteer.

853
00:58:55,741 --> 00:58:58,368
But for me,
just thinking about

854
00:58:58,369 --> 00:59:00,954
meaningful things
I've done in my life,

855
00:59:00,955 --> 00:59:02,830
that's something
I look at as really,

856
00:59:02,831 --> 00:59:05,458
truly meaningful artwork.

857
00:59:32,945 --> 00:59:37,115
I'm not sure,
but the project that we made,

858
00:59:37,116 --> 00:59:40,828
uh, to be honest, I don't even
know how it exists now.

859
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:44,623
I'm not sure if it even exists
to this day.

860
00:59:59,930 --> 01:00:06,145
The apartment was the side
project to the other stuff.

861
01:00:08,522 --> 01:00:14,110
The Hope Project,
Oklahoma City projects,

862
01:00:14,111 --> 01:00:17,280
the work at the hospital,

863
01:00:17,281 --> 01:00:22,035
that was, I believe,
our focus as a team.

864
01:00:22,036 --> 01:00:24,871
You know, the mall
project felt like a way for us

865
01:00:24,872 --> 01:00:30,251
to have maybe more fun
than thinking about tragedy,

866
01:00:30,252 --> 01:00:31,462
which for a couple of years
we were, like,

867
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:34,590
really thinking about tragedy
all the time.

868
01:02:19,027 --> 01:02:21,320
Once you have your own wall,

869
01:02:21,321 --> 01:02:22,989
then you get your own door,

870
01:02:22,990 --> 01:02:24,115
and then you have
your own lock,

871
01:02:24,116 --> 01:02:25,324
and then you get
your own key.

872
01:02:25,325 --> 01:02:28,077
So our whole team
had a key

873
01:02:28,078 --> 01:02:29,830
to an apartment
in the mall.

874
01:02:44,136 --> 01:02:45,595
So what I didn't realize

875
01:02:45,596 --> 01:02:48,848
when I was initially
looking at these photos--

876
01:02:48,849 --> 01:02:51,058
This step-down here
that's happening

877
01:02:51,059 --> 01:02:52,393
in the cinder blocks,

878
01:02:52,394 --> 01:02:53,811
I was like, "Weird."

879
01:02:53,812 --> 01:02:55,354
Yeah, poor craftsmanship.

880
01:02:55,355 --> 01:02:57,106
- Because you had built it.
- Right.

881
01:02:57,107 --> 01:02:58,649
- Ahh.
- Right.

882
01:02:58,650 --> 01:03:01,360
But that brings like
a certain degree of charm.

883
01:03:01,361 --> 01:03:04,614
So with the couch, you can
tell it's a pretty big couch

884
01:03:04,615 --> 01:03:06,657
from the amount of people
that are fitting on it.

885
01:03:06,658 --> 01:03:07,992
Sectional.

886
01:03:07,993 --> 01:03:10,369
- Oh, it's a sectional.
- Yeah.

887
01:03:10,370 --> 01:03:14,749
Can you draw for me,
roughly, like, the floor plan

888
01:03:14,750 --> 01:03:18,711
or just the orientation of
walls and stuff as you...

889
01:03:18,712 --> 01:03:22,715
So if this is our front door,
this is our back door.

890
01:03:22,716 --> 01:03:24,675
- Whoa.
- We had a couch here.

891
01:03:24,676 --> 01:03:26,469
We had our entertainment system

892
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:29,514
on a little tiny table
with a TV.

893
01:03:29,515 --> 01:03:31,766
And there was
a dresser out here.

894
01:03:31,767 --> 01:03:34,227
Rugs, lamps.

895
01:03:34,228 --> 01:03:36,646
You didn't have outlets,
did you?

896
01:03:36,647 --> 01:03:41,526
No, but we had the extension
cord here, down...

897
01:03:41,527 --> 01:03:45,238
- Oh, my God.
- ...one story into over here.

898
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:47,281
The door is there.
The couch is basically here.

899
01:03:47,282 --> 01:03:48,783
Little table was basically here.

900
01:03:48,784 --> 01:03:50,868
You walk to that,

901
01:03:50,869 --> 01:03:55,915
and that puts
the china cabinet here.

902
01:03:55,916 --> 01:03:58,501
Getting it to look right--
like this is too distressed.

903
01:03:58,502 --> 01:04:01,420
No, that's not--
that's not-- that's brick.

904
01:04:01,421 --> 01:04:04,298
- That's closer.
- Closer.

905
01:04:04,299 --> 01:04:05,633
That's it.
That's what it looked like.

906
01:04:44,256 --> 01:04:46,799
Yeah, with the folks
from Providence

907
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,634
who are helping
on this project,

908
01:04:48,635 --> 01:04:50,136
um, it was pretty easy for me

909
01:04:50,137 --> 01:04:51,804
to rope them in
because I just said,

910
01:04:51,805 --> 01:04:55,391
"Remember that time those
people lived at the mall?

911
01:04:55,392 --> 01:04:58,477
How would you like
to rebuild that room?"

912
01:04:58,478 --> 01:05:00,897
You know, we're working
with a tight budget,

913
01:05:00,898 --> 01:05:02,648
but everyone's really excited
about the project,

914
01:05:02,649 --> 01:05:04,358
so we're doing
the best we can.

915
01:05:04,359 --> 01:05:06,736
I think everyone was sort of
willing to pitch in

916
01:05:06,737 --> 01:05:08,988
and just being
a little scrappier.

917
01:05:08,989 --> 01:05:11,866
There's a lot of free items
that we're running around

918
01:05:11,867 --> 01:05:13,409
and picking up.

919
01:05:13,410 --> 01:05:15,453
We're basically doing
what these guys did.

920
01:05:15,454 --> 01:05:17,288
You know, the way that they
were finding their furniture

921
01:05:17,289 --> 01:05:19,123
was oftentimes
at Salvation Army

922
01:05:19,124 --> 01:05:20,082
or things that they were finding

923
01:05:20,083 --> 01:05:21,584
on the side of the road,

924
01:05:21,585 --> 01:05:24,795
and we're doing a sort
of expedited version of that.

925
01:05:24,796 --> 01:05:26,547
I think more than anything,
I want Michael

926
01:05:26,548 --> 01:05:28,591
and Adriana
and Andrew and Colin

927
01:05:28,592 --> 01:05:31,260
and whoever else
to walk into the space

928
01:05:31,261 --> 01:05:35,306
knowing that it's just a
re-creation for a documentary,

929
01:05:35,307 --> 01:05:39,435
but having it sort of evoke
the memory of the space.

930
01:06:49,631 --> 01:06:52,842
So I was hired at Pottery Barn

931
01:06:52,843 --> 01:06:55,386
to do, uh, shipping/receiving.

932
01:06:55,387 --> 01:06:58,973
The company was trying
to promote shadow boxes,

933
01:06:58,974 --> 01:07:02,727
so they wanted to do
a workshop, so I did it.

934
01:07:02,728 --> 01:07:06,856
So when they came in, they
were really excited and jovial

935
01:07:06,857 --> 01:07:08,816
and they were like,
"We're into this."

936
01:07:08,817 --> 01:07:10,526
They sort of explained
who they were,

937
01:07:10,527 --> 01:07:11,861
what kind of art they made,

938
01:07:11,862 --> 01:07:13,696
that they were
from Eagle Square

939
01:07:13,697 --> 01:07:15,448
and that they got kicked out.

940
01:07:15,449 --> 01:07:17,158
I had been to Eagle Square,

941
01:07:17,159 --> 01:07:20,077
so I knew kind of
the situation.

942
01:07:20,078 --> 01:07:22,539
You know,
we had this connection going.

943
01:07:22,706 --> 01:07:24,081
And then they started
to tell me,

944
01:07:24,082 --> 01:07:25,959
you know,
slowly it kind of leaked out.

945
01:07:58,158 --> 01:07:59,784
It was pretty clear
from the beginning

946
01:07:59,785 --> 01:08:02,703
that they wanted to know more
information about the mall,

947
01:08:02,704 --> 01:08:04,623
and I was their inside
about that.

948
01:09:07,561 --> 01:09:09,728
So after they left, you know,
of course,

949
01:09:09,729 --> 01:09:11,897
there were all the questions
from the other employees,

950
01:09:11,898 --> 01:09:14,150
you know, "What's this about?"

951
01:09:14,151 --> 01:09:16,152
And I just told them
it was an art project.

952
01:09:21,032 --> 01:09:24,869
Here we go.
So this is our home.

953
01:09:26,496 --> 01:09:29,832
This door also has a lock,
just like our door did.

954
01:09:29,833 --> 01:09:33,878
And, um, it's locked, so I
can't go in the apartment.

955
01:09:40,510 --> 01:09:42,970
This is the weird thing about
the mall apartment

956
01:09:42,971 --> 01:09:45,389
is that it makes
you feel really relaxed.

957
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:48,350
It's this paradox, right?

958
01:09:48,351 --> 01:09:50,019
It's a little prisonlike,

959
01:09:50,020 --> 01:09:51,854
because there's
this cement wall

960
01:09:51,855 --> 01:09:53,814
and there's no natural light,

961
01:09:53,815 --> 01:09:56,859
and you could be discovered
at any moment.

962
01:09:56,860 --> 01:09:58,235
There's this weird sense
of freedom

963
01:09:58,236 --> 01:10:00,279
where no one's
gonna bother you,

964
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,489
you're not gonna be late
for anything.

965
01:10:02,490 --> 01:10:07,995
It's just this really
quiet refuge in a way.

966
01:10:07,996 --> 01:10:10,080
You're on, like,
the inside-out version

967
01:10:10,081 --> 01:10:13,125
of a building that you're
never supposed to experience.

968
01:10:13,126 --> 01:10:16,838
Um, and so it's like being
in the belly of a beast.

969
01:10:22,802 --> 01:10:25,471
In some ways
we had this raw black box.

970
01:10:25,472 --> 01:10:28,224
It was a bit of a space station,

971
01:10:28,225 --> 01:10:30,059
self-imposed prison cell.

972
01:10:30,060 --> 01:10:31,977
There was no windows,
there's no light.

973
01:10:31,978 --> 01:10:35,606
And it was about this desire
to cultivate it

974
01:10:35,607 --> 01:10:36,942
and make it more human.

975
01:10:37,943 --> 01:10:40,070
Uh...

976
01:10:42,822 --> 01:10:47,660
Sleeping in the apartment was,
I think, really cold usually.

977
01:10:47,661 --> 01:10:51,372
And we had like some sleeping
bags, at least in the winter.

978
01:10:51,373 --> 01:10:54,250
Definitely really hot
in the summer too.

979
01:10:54,251 --> 01:10:56,669
And incredibly dark.

980
01:10:56,670 --> 01:10:58,504
Slept on this couch a lot.

981
01:10:58,505 --> 01:10:59,797
Probably the most--

982
01:10:59,798 --> 01:11:01,548
for me, the most nights in a row

983
01:11:01,549 --> 01:11:02,800
would have been
four or five

984
01:11:02,801 --> 01:11:05,010
or something like that,
I think.

985
01:11:05,011 --> 01:11:07,388
We had tried different,
like, sleeping arrangements,

986
01:11:07,389 --> 01:11:08,639
but I remember Mike and I

987
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:10,307
doing this on this couch a lot,

988
01:11:10,308 --> 01:11:12,435
the head-to-foot sleeping.

989
01:11:13,645 --> 01:11:15,020
And this hutch...

990
01:11:15,021 --> 01:11:18,315
I was gonna look for it.
It feels so real.

991
01:11:18,316 --> 01:11:20,901
It definitely--
it had a real waffle maker

992
01:11:20,902 --> 01:11:23,405
so we could make waffles
in the mall apartment.

993
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:26,657
So I had this vision
of staging

994
01:11:26,658 --> 01:11:29,410
this set of domestic bliss--

995
01:11:29,411 --> 01:11:32,913
gorgeous, very bourgeois,
even within

996
01:11:32,914 --> 01:11:39,086
the dusty, grimy cinder block
of that apartment.

997
01:11:39,087 --> 01:11:43,674
Oh, my gosh, the cinder block,
yeah, it was, um...

998
01:11:43,675 --> 01:11:46,593
It was, uh, dustier.

999
01:11:46,594 --> 01:11:47,970
It was always giving off--

1000
01:11:47,971 --> 01:11:49,680
It was always generating
kind of like

1001
01:11:49,681 --> 01:11:52,599
a fine mist of-- of cement.

1002
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,352
So much of what
the mall sells us

1003
01:11:55,353 --> 01:11:58,230
is this performance
of a consumer lifestyle.

1004
01:11:58,231 --> 01:12:00,482
And so the mall apartment

1005
01:12:00,483 --> 01:12:03,068
was this opportunity
to have this set, almost,

1006
01:12:03,069 --> 01:12:05,779
where we could play out
the unrealistic

1007
01:12:05,780 --> 01:12:08,407
and unattainable
fantasies of the mall.

1008
01:12:08,408 --> 01:12:10,909
And the joke would be,
"You know what?

1009
01:12:10,910 --> 01:12:13,454
Oh, you love
just beautifying things?

1010
01:12:13,455 --> 01:12:14,622
Like, so do we."

1011
01:13:05,215 --> 01:13:07,132
During the time that
the apartment in the mall

1012
01:13:07,133 --> 01:13:10,594
was being built,
I was married to Adriana

1013
01:13:10,595 --> 01:13:16,643
and she had a front-row seat
to a lot of lunacy.

1014
01:15:26,606 --> 01:15:28,857
There was
some part of me that knew

1015
01:15:28,858 --> 01:15:31,401
this was not
a good relationship,

1016
01:15:31,402 --> 01:15:32,861
and then I was able to realize

1017
01:15:32,862 --> 01:15:34,446
that it was not
the right thing for me.

1018
01:15:34,447 --> 01:15:35,907
Yeah.

1019
01:15:37,659 --> 01:15:41,662
This illustrates
one of the core dilemmas

1020
01:15:41,663 --> 01:15:46,250
of, uh, driving yourself
towards an art project

1021
01:15:46,251 --> 01:15:48,085
that you really
deeply believe in,

1022
01:15:48,086 --> 01:15:52,130
because sometimes it's truly
in the face of all reason.

1023
01:15:52,131 --> 01:15:54,883
Why are you spending
all of that time there?

1024
01:15:54,884 --> 01:15:57,427
Why are you doing that
September 11th project? Why?

1025
01:15:57,428 --> 01:16:00,639
There's no-- Where's the
reward in any of this?

1026
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,768
What's your end game?
Valid questions.

1027
01:16:10,358 --> 01:16:13,110
At this time, the apartment
is starting to transform

1028
01:16:13,111 --> 01:16:14,736
into something else.

1029
01:16:14,737 --> 01:16:16,656
It's evolving again.

1030
01:16:18,658 --> 01:16:21,743
It had started as a response

1031
01:16:21,744 --> 01:16:23,996
to development projects
in our neighborhood,

1032
01:16:23,997 --> 01:16:25,247
and within a couple of years

1033
01:16:25,248 --> 01:16:26,583
it looks like
a domestic space,

1034
01:16:27,166 --> 01:16:30,003
but it's completely
isolated from the world.

1035
01:16:32,171 --> 01:16:34,923
And sometimes when you're
in that space,

1036
01:16:34,924 --> 01:16:38,469
you felt like you were on
the stage of a sitcom TV show.

1037
01:16:40,972 --> 01:16:43,640
And I think kind of
because of that feeling,

1038
01:16:43,641 --> 01:16:46,728
we just stopped
filming ourselves altogether.

1039
01:16:51,482 --> 01:16:55,570
And then
we had had this break-in.

1040
01:17:02,368 --> 01:17:04,244
They were two guys,
young guys,

1041
01:17:04,245 --> 01:17:06,413
maybe 20, 21,
something like that,

1042
01:17:06,414 --> 01:17:09,499
who were new security guards
at the mall.

1043
01:17:09,500 --> 01:17:11,793
I think they were just
going through every door,

1044
01:17:11,794 --> 01:17:13,086
and they came upon the door

1045
01:17:13,087 --> 01:17:15,797
that they did not have
the key to.

1046
01:17:15,798 --> 01:17:17,467
So they just kicked
the door down.

1047
01:17:53,169 --> 01:17:55,087
So Colin and I enter
into the apartment

1048
01:17:55,088 --> 01:17:56,922
to try to figure out
what's happened.

1049
01:17:56,923 --> 01:17:58,840
Our door's been broken in.

1050
01:17:58,841 --> 01:18:00,717
But when we enter
into the apartment,

1051
01:18:00,718 --> 01:18:02,969
we can quickly assess
that someone else

1052
01:18:02,970 --> 01:18:05,306
has been spending time there,
and it's not us.

1053
01:18:06,933 --> 01:18:09,476
And there's evidence
of entertainment

1054
01:18:09,477 --> 01:18:13,021
dispersed throughout.

1055
01:18:13,022 --> 01:18:15,817
But things have also
been stolen.

1056
01:18:17,610 --> 01:18:20,570
Our, uh, PlayStation,
weirdly enough,

1057
01:18:20,571 --> 01:18:23,281
was the thing that was gone,
and then there were some other

1058
01:18:23,282 --> 01:18:25,075
of our personal effects
that were gone.

1059
01:18:25,076 --> 01:18:28,412
We had some framed pictures
and stuff

1060
01:18:28,413 --> 01:18:30,414
to make it feel
a little homier.

1061
01:18:30,415 --> 01:18:32,040
Those were the things
that were gone.

1062
01:18:32,041 --> 01:18:33,250
I think they took
the PlayStation

1063
01:18:33,251 --> 01:18:35,794
because it had
all of our save dates

1064
01:18:35,795 --> 01:18:37,379
for the games
we were playing on it,

1065
01:18:37,380 --> 01:18:39,840
so that's just a record
of all the visits

1066
01:18:39,841 --> 01:18:41,091
in the last
couple months.

1067
01:18:41,092 --> 01:18:42,384
And they took
our photo album

1068
01:18:42,385 --> 01:18:43,969
because it had
just photographs of us.

1069
01:18:43,970 --> 01:18:47,723
It was very clearly
who lived in this apartment.

1070
01:18:47,724 --> 01:18:51,185
Busted. Job well done.
Bravo.

1071
01:18:52,979 --> 01:18:56,189
We've been in this space
for four years,

1072
01:18:56,190 --> 01:18:58,567
and there's this
underlying dread

1073
01:18:58,568 --> 01:19:01,945
that we're gonna get caught
at any time.

1074
01:19:01,946 --> 01:19:04,114
And after we were broken into,
we just stopped

1075
01:19:04,115 --> 01:19:07,993
going to that space
during the day altogether.

1076
01:19:07,994 --> 01:19:10,162
And then I screwed up.

1077
01:19:10,163 --> 01:19:11,872
I had a friend visiting
from out of town,

1078
01:19:11,873 --> 01:19:14,666
and I thought to myself, "I'll
bring her to see the space."

1079
01:19:14,667 --> 01:19:18,211
And I went during the day.

1080
01:19:18,212 --> 01:19:24,051
I disrespected our own rules,
and it blew up in my face.

1081
01:19:32,769 --> 01:19:37,773
All right, this is
our secret apartment.

1082
01:19:37,774 --> 01:19:41,318
Been slowly building this
over the last four years.

1083
01:19:41,319 --> 01:19:47,199
Moving in pieces of furniture
and slowly building it up

1084
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,493
to try to make it a fully
domestic space to live in.

1085
01:19:49,494 --> 01:19:51,411
Are you allowed
to be here?

1086
01:19:51,412 --> 01:19:55,665
Technically, no. We've been
doing it all on the sly.

1087
01:19:55,666 --> 01:20:00,212
And within a couple of days,
the wood floors will be in,

1088
01:20:00,213 --> 01:20:03,048
and it'll be one step closer.

1089
01:20:03,049 --> 01:20:05,634
- How did you get this up here?
- That is--

1090
01:20:16,395 --> 01:20:20,357
Yeah, so between the sound
of the walkie-talkie

1091
01:20:20,358 --> 01:20:23,401
and seeing that doorknob turn,

1092
01:20:23,402 --> 01:20:26,196
everything just goes
into slo-mo.

1093
01:20:26,197 --> 01:20:29,324
And it's one of those times
when you can process

1094
01:20:29,325 --> 01:20:33,120
a lot of scenarios in
a very short period of time.

1095
01:20:53,391 --> 01:20:55,725
One of the possibilities
is just to get out of there.

1096
01:20:55,726 --> 01:20:57,310
Book it, grab your friend,

1097
01:20:57,311 --> 01:20:59,479
head towards the secret passage,

1098
01:20:59,480 --> 01:21:01,940
and... that's where
you're in trouble,

1099
01:21:01,941 --> 01:21:03,733
because you're asking them
to dive into a place

1100
01:21:03,734 --> 01:21:06,736
that's like pitch dark,
full of ledges and I-beams.

1101
01:21:06,737 --> 01:21:08,531
They're probably
not gonna make it.

1102
01:21:10,950 --> 01:21:13,243
Another idea that struck me was,

1103
01:21:13,244 --> 01:21:15,704
they were entering
into my home,

1104
01:21:15,705 --> 01:21:19,416
so I should just
invite them in as guests,

1105
01:21:19,417 --> 01:21:21,084
treat them like royalty,

1106
01:21:21,085 --> 01:21:23,587
and maybe they would
treat me well in return?

1107
01:21:23,588 --> 01:21:26,590
Ah! Hello!

1108
01:21:26,591 --> 01:21:28,758
Gentlemen,
it's good to see you.

1109
01:21:28,759 --> 01:21:33,096
Ah! Too long.
You. You, sir.

1110
01:21:37,518 --> 01:21:39,895
But that probably
wasn't gonna work.

1111
01:21:42,607 --> 01:21:44,733
Another possibility
that went through my mind

1112
01:21:44,734 --> 01:21:47,319
is that this isn't
security at all,

1113
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,114
that maybe this is
just a cool person

1114
01:21:51,115 --> 01:21:53,993
with a walkie-talkie on
the other side of that door.

1115
01:21:56,037 --> 01:21:58,079
- Walkie-talkies.
- Yes!

1116
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,790
Radio Shack.

1117
01:22:00,791 --> 01:22:02,417
Sweet!

1118
01:22:04,545 --> 01:22:10,717
But after seeing those three
guys step through that door

1119
01:22:10,718 --> 01:22:14,679
in their business suits,
I knew it was over.

1120
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,267
I remember stepping right up
and saying, "Surprise!"

1121
01:22:19,644 --> 01:22:22,562
- Do you know who I am?
- We know who you are.

1122
01:22:22,563 --> 01:22:24,774
You're gonna need
to follow us.

1123
01:22:27,526 --> 01:22:30,779
Our other top local story
on Eyewitness News at Noon--

1124
01:22:30,780 --> 01:22:33,031
This is an incredible tale.

1125
01:22:33,032 --> 01:22:36,117
A local artist
has apparently had

1126
01:22:36,118 --> 01:22:38,411
some living space
in the Providence Place Mall.

1127
01:22:38,412 --> 01:22:42,123
In all, eight artists were
in and out of that loft area,

1128
01:22:42,124 --> 01:22:45,251
but there was one man who
admitted that he lived there,

1129
01:22:45,252 --> 01:22:48,088
and now he's facing
trespassing charges,

1130
01:22:48,089 --> 01:22:50,799
and he's also banned
from the premises.

1131
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:53,469
In a mall with 24-hour security,

1132
01:22:54,011 --> 01:22:55,303
Michael Townsend
was able to build

1133
01:22:55,304 --> 01:22:56,763
a fully livable apartment,

1134
01:22:56,764 --> 01:22:58,807
and he used it
for nearly four years.

1135
01:22:58,808 --> 01:23:01,893
Townsend was arrested
and charged with trespassing.

1136
01:23:01,894 --> 01:23:04,729
A judge sentenced him
to six months probation

1137
01:23:04,730 --> 01:23:08,566
and ordered him to pay
court costs and restitution.

1138
01:23:08,567 --> 01:23:10,986
A spokesman for the mall
said the hidden space

1139
01:23:10,987 --> 01:23:12,404
would be sealed up immediately.

1140
01:23:12,405 --> 01:23:13,697
Townsend's original charge...

1141
01:23:13,698 --> 01:23:15,198
Townsend has been barred

1142
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:17,659
from coming to the mall
permanently.

1143
01:23:17,660 --> 01:23:19,077
Townsend was
released this morning,

1144
01:23:19,078 --> 01:23:21,246
spending just one night in jail.

1145
01:23:21,247 --> 01:23:23,873
His only regret is that
it ended too soon.

1146
01:23:23,874 --> 01:23:27,127
In the next year, he planned
on expanding the apartment

1147
01:23:27,128 --> 01:23:28,920
and building
an extra bedroom,

1148
01:23:28,921 --> 01:23:33,008
a kitchen, and a bathroom,
all with running water.

1149
01:23:33,009 --> 01:23:34,843
When asked if the apartment
was a work of art

1150
01:23:34,844 --> 01:23:37,429
or just a place to live,
Townsend told us that for him

1151
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:39,222
there's no line
between art and life.

1152
01:23:39,223 --> 01:23:42,101
Brian Crandall,
NBC 10 News, Providence.

1153
01:23:44,729 --> 01:23:47,897
So I was told by
representatives of the mall

1154
01:23:47,898 --> 01:23:50,859
that they took down
our cinder-block wall

1155
01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:53,987
and then moved
all the cinder blocks

1156
01:23:53,988 --> 01:23:58,158
to rebuild a new wall
to block off the entrance

1157
01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:01,870
we had used to enter in
all of those years.

1158
01:24:01,871 --> 01:24:04,373
As far as I know, no one's
ever been in there again.

1159
01:24:08,669 --> 01:24:10,587
With our secret apartment
in the mall,

1160
01:24:10,588 --> 01:24:14,049
there wasn't any sense
of it being permanent.

1161
01:24:14,050 --> 01:24:15,341
We're just gonna keep
building it

1162
01:24:15,342 --> 01:24:18,344
until we reached
that crescendo moment

1163
01:24:18,345 --> 01:24:22,266
and then make it disappear.

1164
01:24:27,855 --> 01:24:30,023
So what is it?
What is it?

1165
01:24:30,024 --> 01:24:31,649
Is it a work of art?
Is it a social experiment?

1166
01:24:31,650 --> 01:24:34,194
Is it trespassing?
Is it a prank?

1167
01:24:34,195 --> 01:24:36,071
It's maybe
all of these things.

1168
01:24:36,072 --> 01:24:37,989
It was this idea of

1169
01:24:37,990 --> 01:24:40,784
reinventing everyday life

1170
01:24:40,785 --> 01:24:42,660
and making of everyday life

1171
01:24:42,661 --> 01:24:44,496
an artistic project.

1172
01:24:44,497 --> 01:24:45,997
It talks about gentrification.

1173
01:24:45,998 --> 01:24:48,875
It talks about, uh, capitalism

1174
01:24:48,876 --> 01:24:51,753
and, you know,
everything being commodified.

1175
01:24:51,754 --> 01:24:53,004
It's the perfect site

1176
01:24:53,005 --> 01:24:55,090
to address issues of, like,

1177
01:24:55,091 --> 01:24:58,510
ownership of capital,
of private versus public.

1178
01:24:58,511 --> 01:25:01,012
It was like this
alternate universe

1179
01:25:01,013 --> 01:25:03,681
that's, like,
within the real world.

1180
01:25:03,682 --> 01:25:08,937
It's a crossover between
installation art

1181
01:25:08,938 --> 01:25:10,313
and performance art.

1182
01:25:10,314 --> 01:25:12,190
I think it was a combo of,
like, mischief

1183
01:25:12,191 --> 01:25:14,360
and, like, snark.

1184
01:25:14,902 --> 01:25:17,320
It seemed like
a big presentational show

1185
01:25:17,321 --> 01:25:20,115
because they don't like--
they don't like malls?

1186
01:25:20,116 --> 01:25:22,200
It felt like, blah, whatever.

1187
01:25:22,201 --> 01:25:24,828
I don't really get it,
I will admit,

1188
01:25:24,829 --> 01:25:27,956
uh, which is-- Michael finds
that hilarious.

1189
01:25:27,957 --> 01:25:31,918
Uh, you know, it's--
I-- I try to understand

1190
01:25:31,919 --> 01:25:38,383
why this was an art project
and the deeper, um, messaging

1191
01:25:38,384 --> 01:25:41,928
he was trying to get across
by occupying unoccupied space.

1192
01:25:41,929 --> 01:25:43,555
And, like, I've heard it,
I've heard it,

1193
01:25:43,556 --> 01:25:47,308
but I just don't
really get why it's art.

1194
01:25:47,309 --> 01:25:49,644
I'm not sure if it--
if it moves over

1195
01:25:49,645 --> 01:25:52,188
to the area of being artistic.

1196
01:25:52,189 --> 01:25:53,898
I think this is just
his creative mind

1197
01:25:53,899 --> 01:25:56,569
trying to express itself
in every possible way.

1198
01:26:13,127 --> 01:26:17,088
I've kept this key on
my keychain the entire time.

1199
01:26:17,089 --> 01:26:20,800
Yep, this is the key.

1200
01:26:20,801 --> 01:26:24,012
Um, which used to have flames
on it, but it doesn't anymore.

1201
01:26:24,013 --> 01:26:28,225
Well, um,
it's here on my keychain.

1202
01:26:29,351 --> 01:26:32,812
Um, I have no idea
if the door's still there,

1203
01:26:32,813 --> 01:26:35,315
so I sometimes refer to it
as my key to nowhere.

1204
01:26:37,568 --> 01:26:41,322
Here is my key.

1205
01:26:42,489 --> 01:26:45,116
It's got, uh, what's left
of an American flag

1206
01:26:45,117 --> 01:26:47,410
and an eagle on it.

1207
01:26:47,411 --> 01:26:49,871
You can kind of see, like,
a little bit of the flames

1208
01:26:49,872 --> 01:26:51,623
left in there.

1209
01:26:51,624 --> 01:26:55,877
Uh, but pretty well worn.
And that was the key.

1210
01:27:53,352 --> 01:27:55,144
Oh, yeah.