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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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It was
July 18th, 1969.

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It was early in the
morning, about 5:30 a.m.

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It was a beautiful
day to fly.

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No wind to speak of.

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So how could
it be better?

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We start up the engines.

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We were full of fuel.

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Everything was fine.

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And we started taxiing.

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And then sure enough,

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the aircraft
started to climb.

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Chuck brought the landing
gear up.

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We were accelerating
and climbing

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above the runway,

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and I think we were about

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100 feet above the ground
when I started noticing

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that something was wrong.

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You have one engine
at higher rpm,

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another low rpm.

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Now that can happen
with an engine failure.

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And I mean,
I grabbed the chairs

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and held on
and looked out

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and I saw a bunch
of green grass

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and it looked
like a city park

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And I thought, well,
worst case scenario,

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we've always been trained
to just land in a park.

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But the next thing
I noticed was

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towering trees
were filling our windshield

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Chuck grabbed
the flight controls,

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and he yanks them all
the way left.

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As far as they'll go.

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And then he pulls them
all the way back,

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against his chest.

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I suddenly found myself

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above the crash site,

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but unaware

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of what I was
looking at or why.

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I was not in any pain.

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I was not in any fear
or discomfort.

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I was just above this
crash site.

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I could see an airplane
and I could see a pilot.

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First of all, my eyes
went right to one pilot.

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This was Gene.

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And then I went over
and I saw another pilot

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right next to him
five feet away.

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And I recognized this
as Chuck.

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And while I'm processing
what I'm looking at,

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I see a third pilot also
about five feet away.

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And this is me.

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Imagine if what
we're living here on this

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earth is really being
lived on a flat, black

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and white
painting on a wall,

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and death is separation.

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So when we die, our

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spirit separates
from our physical body.

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You die and
you're ripped off

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that flat,
black and white

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two-dimensional painting

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your brought out into a
three-dimensional room

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of color all around you.

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You're experiencing things

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you've never
experienced before,

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even though you can
see your world

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is contained
within this world,

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then imagine
you're put back into

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that flat,
black and white painting,

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and you have to describe

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three dimensions of color

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in two-dimensional
black and white terms.

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How would you do it?

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Medically,

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Scientifically,

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the point of death

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cannot be defined.

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What we do know is there
is a process of dying

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during which I feel the

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near-death
experience occurs.

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75% of the people in that
first study

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have had a documented
cardiac arrest.

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Part of the
experience is they

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said they floated up
out of their body

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and they can see
what was going on

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during the resuscitation.

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I felt that myself,
as a cardiologist

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could pick that apart.

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This is clinical
death as we know it,

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sometimes
for a few minutes,

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sometimes 30 minutes,
sometimes hours.

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And yet modern medicine
or the miraculous,

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I don't know,

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resuscitated them

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and they were able
to come back

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and talk about it.

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You may think
you've died.

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All definitions,
medically,

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scientifically,
and legally

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state that once you go
across that red line,

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i.e. you die,

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you don't come back.

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And I like to say doctors
resuscitate,

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not resurrect
their patients.

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I was actually
an agnostic.

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I didn't know if I
believed there was a God.

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I thought, I don't
know if I believe

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there's a heaven or not,

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but my dad was
dying of cancer

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and someone gave him
the very first research

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on what's now called
near-death experiences.

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And I saw it
on his nightstand,

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picked it up
and read it in one night.

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And that just
got me curious.

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So I kind of opened my
my eyes, my mind,

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and I started
to explore from there.

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I found it fascinating,

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kind of, the train
of how this

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whole near-death
experience phenomenon

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started to get
traction in America.

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Dr. George Ritchie
was the first one

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to really talk
publicly about this.

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He was actually
at Camp Barkeley

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getting ready to go
fight in World War II.

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What happened
during those 9 minutes?

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What did you see?
What happened?

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I met
the Christ

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because I was told
to stand up, you are

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in the presence
of the Son of God.

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He came into my room

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and he conducted me
through four different

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realms of life
after death.

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Life really is
forever. We don't die.

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Death is nothing
more than just a gateway

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through which we go.

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Dr. Moody
actually heard him lecture

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at the University
of Virginia,

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where he was
a visiting professor

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and heard him talk about

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this near-death
experience.

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In 1969,

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I became a professor
of philosophy

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at East
Carolina University

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and in teaching
courses on Plato.

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I began to hear these

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experiences
from my students

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and also from other
faculty members.

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I was
brought into this

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field kicking
and screaming.

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I was at the University
of Florida in Gainesville

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with Sarah Kreissinger

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who was a psychiatric,
social worker

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at the hospital
I was working at.

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And she had picked up

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Raymond Moody's book
Life After Life,

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about two months

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after it was
initially published.

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She read it.
She gave it to me.

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She asked me
what I thought.

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This is Dr. Raymond
Moody,

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noted psychiatrist,
lecturer, and researcher.

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He is perhaps best
known as the author

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of the groundbreaking
examination

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of the near-death
experience.

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The bestselling book,
Life After Life.

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It has sold upwards
of 15 million copies,

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and has been printed in
14 different languages.

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They tell us,
first of all,

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that they seem,
from their point of view,

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to leave
their physical bodies

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to float up above the
scene of the resuscitation

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and to watch the events
going on down below.

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They tell us that they go

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through a narrow
passageway or a tunnel

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into an
incredibly brilliant

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and warm and loving light

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Hogwash.

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I never heard
these experiences before.

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I went into the hospital

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asking some of the
older physicians,

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"Hey, you ever heard
a patient say this?"

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"No."

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So I was very skeptical

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that these things
were even occurring.

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And if they were
occurring,

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they were either
hallucinations

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or delusions or whatever.

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In cardiology, we're about
scientific studies.

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So I asked a few people

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who had been resuscitated,

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and the third patient

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I talked to had
an experience

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similar to what
Moody talked

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about in his book,
Life After Life.

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So, Sarah and I said,

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Well, maybe we ought
to look into this further.

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We devised a
scientific protocol

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to interview
these people.

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We tape recorded
the interviews.

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We took down
their background data,

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the demographics,
etc.. And...

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this went
on for five years.

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First of all,
I'd get permission

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to tape record it
and then say,

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okay, go...

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These
people say,

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"I've never told anybody
about this, doc.

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00:13:01,615 --> 00:13:02,866
And by the way, I'm
the only one

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that's ever had this."

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00:13:04,493 --> 00:13:07,120
So the near-death
experience at that time,

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and that's about 45 years
ago was not well known.

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And so these people
were sort of

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coming up
with it on their own,

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and they were suspicious
of me asking the questions,

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which to me

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lent credibility to what
they were telling me.

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Many of them
said, for example,

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that they had tried to tell
their doctor about it

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or a minister about it and
that they were dismissed.

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And in those initial years,

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the people that I talked
with were just very happy

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that at last somebody
would listen to them.

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I started at
Northern Kentucky University

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in 1972.

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I was hired as an assistant
professor and I was

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offered a promotion
to full professor

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at the age of 25, and
I was also given tenure

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my third year.

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Seven students, myself

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00:14:03,260 --> 00:14:03,927
and my wife

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00:14:04,052 --> 00:14:05,679
toured Amsterdam

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00:14:05,804 --> 00:14:07,973
and then went up
to Denmark.

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00:14:08,098 --> 00:14:11,059
Spent a few days there,
went to Sweden for a day.

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00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:14,187
And last week, it was
a three week trip,

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00:14:14,312 --> 00:14:17,232
and our last week,
was a week in Paris.

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00:14:19,067 --> 00:14:23,613
It was an art tour, it was,
pretty much all museums.

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On that Saturday morning,

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June 1, 1985,

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00:14:30,036 --> 00:14:31,121
and I had the most acute

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00:14:31,246 --> 00:14:32,872
pain I'd ever
experienced in my life

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00:14:32,998 --> 00:14:36,001
in the center of
my abdomen. Right there.

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00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:42,424
It was terrifying
because it

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it just came from
nowhere.

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00:14:43,925 --> 00:14:46,136
And I never experienced
such acute pain.

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00:14:46,261 --> 00:14:47,721
I mean, this was like

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00:14:47,846 --> 00:14:49,347
the kind of pain
that blows

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00:14:49,472 --> 00:14:50,682
the top of your head off.

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00:14:55,312 --> 00:14:56,688
A doctor
came very quickly,

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00:14:56,813 --> 00:14:57,939
got me up
off the floor,

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00:14:58,064 --> 00:14:59,858
with a great deal of
difficulty because

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00:14:59,983 --> 00:15:01,192
I couldn't move.

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00:15:01,318 --> 00:15:02,569
He knew exactly
what was wrong.

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00:15:02,694 --> 00:15:04,738
and told me that I
had a perforation

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00:15:04,863 --> 00:15:05,947
of the duodenum.

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00:15:06,072 --> 00:15:07,407
Which means I had a hole

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00:15:07,532 --> 00:15:09,409
go through my
small stomach.

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00:15:10,076 --> 00:15:12,037
What was happening
was the hydrochloric acid

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00:15:12,162 --> 00:15:12,829
and the enzymes

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00:15:12,954 --> 00:15:13,705
and the bacteria
in everything

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00:15:13,830 --> 00:15:15,123
are now migrating, leaking

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00:15:15,248 --> 00:15:16,666
into my abdominal cavity.

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00:15:16,791 --> 00:15:17,834
To put it in crude terms.

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00:15:17,959 --> 00:15:21,379
I was digesting myself,
on the inside.

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00:15:22,547 --> 00:15:24,049
Without exaggeration,

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00:15:24,174 --> 00:15:25,675
what it felt like
was fire.

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00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:28,094
my wife riding alongside me

266
00:15:28,219 --> 00:15:29,012
in the back of
the ambulance

267
00:15:29,137 --> 00:15:31,681
as we traveled
70, 80 miles an hour

268
00:15:31,806 --> 00:15:34,934
through the streets
of Paris to the big

269
00:15:35,727 --> 00:15:36,770
city hospital

270
00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:40,649
they confirmed basically,

271
00:15:40,774 --> 00:15:42,484
if I didn't have the
surgery in an hour,

272
00:15:42,609 --> 00:15:43,610
I would die.

273
00:15:45,070 --> 00:15:47,697
So they sent me
to the surgical hospital.

274
00:15:47,822 --> 00:15:49,199
And because it was
the weekend,

275
00:15:49,324 --> 00:15:51,826
there was no doctor
available.

276
00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:54,579
No surgeon
available at the hospital

277
00:15:54,704 --> 00:15:57,624
they sent me to.
So I was put in a room.

278
00:15:59,668 --> 00:16:00,710
I begged, I screamed,

279
00:16:00,835 --> 00:16:03,797
I yelled,

280
00:16:05,090 --> 00:16:05,924
and my wife begged

281
00:16:06,049 --> 00:16:07,342
and yelled and screamed,

282
00:16:07,467 --> 00:16:09,469
Nurse, can someone
please come in here?

283
00:16:11,638 --> 00:16:12,263
Sorry.

284
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:14,766
We need a doctor
to prescribe something

285
00:16:14,891 --> 00:16:16,935
Can you please talk
to someone who can help us?

286
00:16:17,060 --> 00:16:18,061
There has to be somebody,

287
00:16:18,186 --> 00:16:20,230
how can there not be
someone here?

288
00:16:24,859 --> 00:16:27,737
There I
was for 10 hours.

289
00:16:27,862 --> 00:16:29,489
About once an hour,
the nurse would come in

290
00:16:29,614 --> 00:16:32,117
and ask how I was doing,
and I would tell her in

291
00:16:32,242 --> 00:16:35,203
French and English
that I was dying and

292
00:16:36,413 --> 00:16:39,416
shrug their shoulders
and walk away.

293
00:16:40,417 --> 00:16:41,459
I wasn't in fear.

294
00:16:41,584 --> 00:16:42,836
I was in terror

295
00:16:42,961 --> 00:16:45,839
Because I was 38 years old,
very successful

296
00:16:45,964 --> 00:16:47,590
in my career
at the university,

297
00:16:47,716 --> 00:16:51,970
you know, wife and two
kids, nice house, two cars.

298
00:16:52,429 --> 00:16:53,680
The thing
that kept going through

299
00:16:53,805 --> 00:16:55,682
my mind is this
can't be happening.

300
00:16:55,807 --> 00:16:57,934
This can't be happening.
This can't be happening.

301
00:17:00,478 --> 00:17:01,312
People ask me,

302
00:17:01,438 --> 00:17:02,647
How do you know
you were dying?

303
00:17:02,772 --> 00:17:05,692
It's like the stupidest
question in the world

304
00:17:06,776 --> 00:17:08,528
when you're dying,
you know it

305
00:17:09,654 --> 00:17:11,364
with every breath.

306
00:17:11,489 --> 00:17:14,409
I felt like I had one more
breath to go.

307
00:17:17,912 --> 00:17:21,708
Nurse came into the room
at 8:30 that night

308
00:17:21,833 --> 00:17:23,126
and said they were sorry,

309
00:17:23,251 --> 00:17:23,918
but they were

310
00:17:24,043 --> 00:17:26,671
unable to locate a doctor
and they would try

311
00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:29,758
to find one the next day,
which was Sunday.

312
00:17:30,508 --> 00:17:32,385
Well, when she said that,
I was like,

313
00:17:32,510 --> 00:17:34,304
okay, it's over. Done.

314
00:17:34,429 --> 00:17:36,055
You know,
I can't do this anymore.

315
00:17:36,181 --> 00:17:38,224
You know, I'm exhausted.

316
00:17:39,434 --> 00:17:42,353
and it was horrible to
see her crying like that.

317
00:17:43,354 --> 00:17:47,025
And I closed my eyes and
stopped trying to breathe.

318
00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:50,153
And I went unconscious.

319
00:17:52,489 --> 00:17:54,199
I was an atheist,
and I knew that

320
00:17:54,324 --> 00:17:56,367
when you die,
it's just over.

321
00:17:56,493 --> 00:18:00,371
It's like the big nothing,
you know, void the end.

322
00:18:03,249 --> 00:18:03,875
The official

323
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,961
impact speed recorded
by the National

324
00:18:07,086 --> 00:18:10,924
Transportation Safety Board
was 135 miles an hour.

325
00:18:12,383 --> 00:18:15,386
We impacted
right below the cockpit

326
00:18:15,804 --> 00:18:16,888
with that impact speed.

327
00:18:17,013 --> 00:18:20,225
It just exploded
the cockpit into...

328
00:18:20,350 --> 00:18:22,977
We just,
everything was opened up.

329
00:18:23,102 --> 00:18:25,021
We hit that dome and fell,

330
00:18:25,146 --> 00:18:28,066
boom,
right down to the ground.

331
00:18:29,651 --> 00:18:31,736
I'm told by the curator

332
00:18:31,861 --> 00:18:33,696
of the mausoleum,
that the mausoleum

333
00:18:33,822 --> 00:18:35,657
was six stories,
seven stories tall.

334
00:18:35,782 --> 00:18:37,242
And we slammed

335
00:18:37,367 --> 00:18:39,494
right into the top of it.

336
00:18:41,037 --> 00:18:42,330
I can remember today

337
00:18:42,455 --> 00:18:45,375
as well as I could five
years ago, ten years ago.

338
00:18:46,084 --> 00:18:50,129
You realize
that you are not

339
00:18:51,381 --> 00:18:53,132
a body.

340
00:18:53,258 --> 00:18:55,301
I believe it's

341
00:18:55,426 --> 00:18:58,388
what happens to everyone
when they die.

342
00:19:00,014 --> 00:19:01,766
I awoke
from unconsciousness

343
00:19:01,891 --> 00:19:03,184
standing there

344
00:19:03,309 --> 00:19:04,561
next to the bed,

345
00:19:04,686 --> 00:19:06,563
feeling better than I ever
felt before in my life.

346
00:19:08,898 --> 00:19:12,026
My vision
was greatly increased.

347
00:19:12,151 --> 00:19:13,653
Instead of seeing 106

348
00:19:13,778 --> 00:19:17,198
degrees, I could see
almost 360 degrees.

349
00:19:18,074 --> 00:19:20,785
My depth of field
was total.

350
00:19:20,910 --> 00:19:23,872
When I looked at something
close, I, everything

351
00:19:23,997 --> 00:19:25,415
far was in focus.

352
00:19:25,540 --> 00:19:27,792
Being an artist and being
a visual person, not much.

353
00:19:27,917 --> 00:19:30,879
The first thing I was like,
Wow, I've never been able

354
00:19:31,004 --> 00:19:31,713
to see like this.

355
00:19:31,838 --> 00:19:33,131
Then I realized I
could hear,

356
00:19:33,256 --> 00:19:35,049
smell, taste, touch,
everything.

357
00:19:35,174 --> 00:19:36,217
I could feel

358
00:19:36,342 --> 00:19:39,262
all the little nuances
in the cold linoleum floor.

359
00:19:40,388 --> 00:19:43,308
I could hear the buzzing
of the fluorescent lights

360
00:19:43,433 --> 00:19:46,394
in the ceiling
really loudly.

361
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:50,440
All of my senses were
greatly, greatly enhanced.

362
00:19:51,190 --> 00:19:53,401
I'm looking
down and I'm realizing

363
00:19:53,526 --> 00:19:56,446
there's my body,
but I'm up here.

364
00:19:56,821 --> 00:20:00,617
I can't be dead because
I've never felt more alive.

365
00:20:02,827 --> 00:20:05,496
I was not only alive,
I was free.

366
00:20:05,622 --> 00:20:07,457
And I didn't understand
this.

367
00:20:07,582 --> 00:20:09,208
But I realized then, okay,

368
00:20:10,793 --> 00:20:13,796
I am a spirit.

369
00:20:14,047 --> 00:20:17,050
I have a soul.

370
00:20:18,134 --> 00:20:18,927
And I used to live

371
00:20:19,052 --> 00:20:22,013
in that body.

372
00:20:23,473 --> 00:20:26,476
I was pressed up against
the instrument panel

373
00:20:27,143 --> 00:20:30,146
and was motionless.

374
00:20:30,313 --> 00:20:32,815
It was 16 minutes
before the fire department

375
00:20:32,941 --> 00:20:33,775
got there.

376
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:36,903
The paramedics
got there right after

377
00:20:39,530 --> 00:20:42,533
they put me and Chuck
in the same ambulance.

378
00:20:43,076 --> 00:20:48,498
And I have tremendous
strong memories

379
00:20:48,831 --> 00:20:53,711
that I'm watching my body
and Chuck and I'm chasing

380
00:20:53,836 --> 00:20:56,839
that ambulance as it goes
through the streets.

381
00:20:57,006 --> 00:21:00,259
I have no idea
how to explain

382
00:21:00,385 --> 00:21:02,553
a lot of the things
we're talking about.

383
00:21:02,679 --> 00:21:06,849
But chasing that ambulance
without really any effort.

384
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:07,976
How did I do that?

385
00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:11,020
I don't know.

386
00:21:14,357 --> 00:21:15,608
I wasn't worried.

387
00:21:15,733 --> 00:21:16,943
I wasn't in pain.

388
00:21:17,068 --> 00:21:19,404
I wasn't concerned really.

389
00:21:19,529 --> 00:21:24,367
I was questioning,
what is this all about

390
00:21:26,452 --> 00:21:28,496
Now, while no two
near-death experiences

391
00:21:28,621 --> 00:21:29,414
are the same,

392
00:21:29,539 --> 00:21:31,040
they have a very consistent

393
00:21:31,165 --> 00:21:33,376
pattern of elements
or what occurs

394
00:21:33,501 --> 00:21:34,836
during the near-death
experience.

395
00:21:34,961 --> 00:21:37,797
That typically occur in
a very consistent process.

396
00:21:40,091 --> 00:21:40,967
The very first thing that

397
00:21:41,092 --> 00:21:44,012
happens is that close
brush with death.

398
00:21:44,137 --> 00:21:45,138
They're unconscious.

399
00:21:45,263 --> 00:21:47,473
They may be clinically dead
with absent heartbeat,

400
00:21:47,598 --> 00:21:48,683
absent breathing.

401
00:21:48,808 --> 00:21:50,268
At that time when
they shouldn't

402
00:21:50,393 --> 00:21:52,770
have any experience at
all, they do.

403
00:21:52,895 --> 00:21:54,772
Often the first thing
that happens is

404
00:21:54,897 --> 00:21:57,817
what's called
an out-of-body experience.

405
00:21:58,026 --> 00:21:59,485
People leave
their bodies.

406
00:21:59,610 --> 00:22:01,195
They're, they're watching

407
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,031
the resuscitation
many times, but they say

408
00:22:03,156 --> 00:22:05,241
they still have
a spiritual body.

409
00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:06,451
From that
vantage point,

410
00:22:06,576 --> 00:22:08,411
they can see ongoing
earthly events

411
00:22:08,536 --> 00:22:09,912
and often later describe

412
00:22:10,038 --> 00:22:12,999
frantic efforts
at their own resuscitation.

413
00:22:16,335 --> 00:22:18,129
They move out
of that place

414
00:22:18,254 --> 00:22:19,547
of their resuscitation,

415
00:22:19,672 --> 00:22:22,592
and they come to a place
of exquisite beauty.

416
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:25,428
They very commonly
see a light at times.

417
00:22:25,553 --> 00:22:28,514
They interpret
that as a religious figure.

418
00:22:28,723 --> 00:22:32,810
And this light was
light that is love and life.

419
00:22:33,102 --> 00:22:34,479
It was palpable

420
00:22:34,604 --> 00:22:35,438
and not hard to look at,

421
00:22:35,563 --> 00:22:37,023
but it came out
of everything,

422
00:22:37,148 --> 00:22:39,400
and yet it made everything
vibrant.

423
00:22:39,525 --> 00:22:41,527
The colors,
they say, are far

424
00:22:41,652 --> 00:22:42,945
beyond our color spectrum.

425
00:22:44,322 --> 00:22:45,114
Music has been

426
00:22:45,239 --> 00:22:47,116
described so beautiful

427
00:22:47,241 --> 00:22:49,243
that they say they've never
heard anything like it.

428
00:22:49,368 --> 00:22:51,788
Nothing like that
is possible on earth.

429
00:22:51,913 --> 00:22:54,165
Deceased
relatives or friends often

430
00:22:54,290 --> 00:22:56,375
come to meet them there.

431
00:22:56,501 --> 00:22:58,878
You know, they say
we still have all our memories

432
00:22:59,003 --> 00:23:00,963
our humor,
we're the same people.

433
00:23:01,089 --> 00:23:03,466
But we meet again
on the other side.

434
00:23:03,591 --> 00:23:06,677
And some of them say,
well, I reached a place where

435
00:23:06,844 --> 00:23:07,553
I felt like

436
00:23:07,678 --> 00:23:10,640
if I went any further,
I wouldn't come back

437
00:23:11,390 --> 00:23:12,058
At that time,

438
00:23:12,183 --> 00:23:13,726
they may then have
a life review.

439
00:23:13,851 --> 00:23:16,771
They may see part
or all of their prior life.

440
00:23:17,939 --> 00:23:19,398
The whole
experience is

441
00:23:19,524 --> 00:23:22,485
very calm,
it's very peaceful.

442
00:23:23,277 --> 00:23:26,280
Some people don't
want to come back.

443
00:23:28,533 --> 00:23:29,534
And then many talk

444
00:23:29,659 --> 00:23:32,870
about a God of light
and love

445
00:23:33,371 --> 00:23:35,873
that they experience
in this presence.

446
00:23:35,998 --> 00:23:38,292
This light is brighter
than the sun,

447
00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:41,212
but again, not just light
like we would see

448
00:23:41,337 --> 00:23:42,130
here on earth.

449
00:23:43,047 --> 00:23:46,592
And they feel an
unconditional love

450
00:23:46,717 --> 00:23:48,553
and peace and acceptance

451
00:23:48,678 --> 00:23:51,639
from this God like they've
never experienced before.

452
00:23:53,099 --> 00:23:55,601
Ultimately, they either
make the choice to return

453
00:23:55,726 --> 00:23:58,688
to the earthly body or
sent back involuntarily.

454
00:23:59,605 --> 00:24:02,441
This God almost
always says to them,

455
00:24:02,567 --> 00:24:04,569
Your time is not up yet.

456
00:24:04,694 --> 00:24:07,321
You still have a purpose
on Earth.

457
00:24:07,446 --> 00:24:08,489
Sometimes he asks them,

458
00:24:08,614 --> 00:24:09,907
Do you want to stay
or do you want to go?

459
00:24:10,032 --> 00:24:12,410
Many times he says,
You got to go back.

460
00:24:12,535 --> 00:24:15,538
None of them want to go
back.

461
00:24:20,501 --> 00:24:22,003
Not every
single one of

462
00:24:22,128 --> 00:24:24,380
them experiences
all the commonalities.

463
00:24:24,505 --> 00:24:27,800
Some do, some experience
three, four or five,

464
00:24:27,925 --> 00:24:30,887
some ten, 20,
some, all of them.

465
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:33,764
But those
commonalities overlap.

466
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:36,350
But there are uniqueness
to each experience.

467
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:39,520
Like when they encounter
this god of light and love,

468
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:41,981
each one of them feels like

469
00:24:42,106 --> 00:24:44,025
they are the only
one God loves.

470
00:24:46,944 --> 00:24:47,695
And yet,

471
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:50,823
they all feel that way.

472
00:25:08,174 --> 00:25:09,217
You know actually,
these near-death

473
00:25:09,342 --> 00:25:12,303
experiences are not new.

474
00:25:13,429 --> 00:25:15,139
Plato wrote in the Republic
about

475
00:25:15,264 --> 00:25:18,184
a soldier who comes to
on his funeral pyre

476
00:25:18,601 --> 00:25:21,604
and had an experience
like this.

477
00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:24,315
Paul in the New Testament,
who wrote much of

478
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,483
the New Testament,

479
00:25:25,608 --> 00:25:27,026
I believe in
Acts chapter 14,

480
00:25:27,151 --> 00:25:29,737
He's stoned to
death in Lystra

481
00:25:30,029 --> 00:25:31,113
and left for dead.

482
00:25:31,239 --> 00:25:34,075
And then he gets back up
and he talks about

483
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,203
how he had an experience
of going to heaven

484
00:25:40,831 --> 00:25:41,916
In the ancient world.

485
00:25:42,041 --> 00:25:45,086
Presumably these
experiences were very rare.

486
00:25:45,753 --> 00:25:48,089
By the time
I started investigating it

487
00:25:48,214 --> 00:25:50,466
in the 60s
and 70s,

488
00:25:50,591 --> 00:25:52,802
the advent
of cardiopulmonary

489
00:25:52,927 --> 00:25:55,054
resuscitation
had greatly increased

490
00:25:55,179 --> 00:25:57,765
the number of people
who had been to the brink

491
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:59,058
of death and recovered.

492
00:25:59,183 --> 00:26:00,977
So there were
a lot of cases.

493
00:26:01,102 --> 00:26:04,105
Some of them say,
well, I reached a place where

494
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:04,981
I felt like

495
00:26:05,106 --> 00:26:08,025
if I went any further,
I wouldn't come back.

496
00:26:08,317 --> 00:26:11,237
And I get questioned
about this a lot.

497
00:26:11,362 --> 00:26:12,154
And the question

498
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,157
is, well, is that really
a barrier or not?

499
00:26:15,283 --> 00:26:16,617
And my answer is,

500
00:26:16,742 --> 00:26:18,494
well, I've not been able
to interview

501
00:26:18,619 --> 00:26:20,288
any of them
that didn't come back.

502
00:26:20,413 --> 00:26:21,580
So I assume

503
00:26:21,706 --> 00:26:25,167
that if they do go over
that, it very well may be

504
00:26:25,376 --> 00:26:26,627
a point of no return.

505
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:28,671
I have no evidence
to suggest that,

506
00:26:28,796 --> 00:26:32,383
except I have no evidence
to refute it either.

507
00:26:35,803 --> 00:26:37,430
Raymond Moody heard
about our work,

508
00:26:37,555 --> 00:26:40,433
so he called us up
to his house,

509
00:26:40,558 --> 00:26:43,477
along with two
other researchers.

510
00:26:44,020 --> 00:26:46,647
And that's when I met
all of these wonderful people

511
00:26:46,772 --> 00:26:50,026
Bruce Grayson and Mike
Sabom and Kenneth Ring.

512
00:26:51,068 --> 00:26:53,404
We got together,
we compared notes

513
00:26:53,529 --> 00:26:54,989
and we said, you know,
we ought to form

514
00:26:55,114 --> 00:26:58,659
a group and share with one
another what we're doing.

515
00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:00,745
And it eventually
turned out to be

516
00:27:00,870 --> 00:27:03,164
what's now known as IANDS

517
00:27:03,289 --> 00:27:06,250
International Association
and Near-Death Studies.

518
00:27:10,004 --> 00:27:12,673
After five years of
doing research, Dr. Sabom

519
00:27:12,923 --> 00:27:15,885
ends up writing
a book convinced that

520
00:27:16,177 --> 00:27:19,805
this really does show that
there is life after death.

521
00:27:19,930 --> 00:27:22,600
But then even more
fascinating, he publishes

522
00:27:22,725 --> 00:27:23,684
in the Journal of the

523
00:27:23,809 --> 00:27:25,353
American Medical
Association

524
00:27:25,478 --> 00:27:27,772
his findings and what
changed his mind.

525
00:27:28,397 --> 00:27:30,232
I was in my
residency training

526
00:27:30,358 --> 00:27:32,109
and I was going through
a bound journal

527
00:27:32,234 --> 00:27:33,986
looking for a cancer
related article.

528
00:27:34,111 --> 00:27:36,989
And completely by accident,
I found in the title

529
00:27:37,114 --> 00:27:39,909
of an article the
term Near-Death experience.

530
00:27:42,328 --> 00:27:44,080
Everything I knew as
a doctor said,

531
00:27:44,205 --> 00:27:46,749
This is medically
inexplicable.

532
00:27:46,874 --> 00:27:47,875
In this article

533
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,502
all around
the world, were people

534
00:27:49,627 --> 00:27:51,837
having these experiences
while they were unconscious

535
00:27:51,962 --> 00:27:53,756
or even clinically dead

536
00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:55,800
who can't be mystified
by that question

537
00:27:55,925 --> 00:27:58,886
of what happens
after you die?

538
00:28:00,763 --> 00:28:03,224
As I've traveled
around the world to China

539
00:28:03,349 --> 00:28:05,059
and Japan and India

540
00:28:05,184 --> 00:28:08,104
and North and South America
and all over Europe,

541
00:28:08,521 --> 00:28:11,107
people all over the world
use the word light,

542
00:28:11,232 --> 00:28:12,650
but they say that it's not

543
00:28:12,775 --> 00:28:13,734
the light that comes

544
00:28:13,859 --> 00:28:16,153
from a light bulb
or from the sun.

545
00:28:16,278 --> 00:28:18,906
But universally
the description is that the

546
00:28:19,031 --> 00:28:21,575
light of complete
compassion and love.

547
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:24,578
And people also say
that they learned

548
00:28:24,703 --> 00:28:27,081
from their experience
that what we call

549
00:28:27,206 --> 00:28:30,793
death is a transition
into some other reality.

550
00:28:31,127 --> 00:28:33,045
So they
lose their fear of death.

551
00:28:38,426 --> 00:28:41,929
The day was
January 18th, 1989,

552
00:28:42,054 --> 00:28:45,057
very chilly by
South Texas standards.

553
00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:48,060
I almost stopped
in a little town

554
00:28:48,185 --> 00:28:50,855
before you cross
all the bridges to get some

555
00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:52,773
some coffee. I didn't.

556
00:28:52,898 --> 00:28:55,234
The people who were
on the highway ahead of me,

557
00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:57,486
she wanted some coffee.
They pulled over.

558
00:28:57,611 --> 00:29:00,573
I drove past them
and they came in behind me,

559
00:29:00,739 --> 00:29:03,742
Dick and Anita,
Onarecker.

560
00:29:04,410 --> 00:29:09,457
It was foggy
and a slight rain.

561
00:29:09,582 --> 00:29:11,792
It was wet

562
00:29:11,917 --> 00:29:14,837
and I knew I would have to
cross some bridges.

563
00:29:16,338 --> 00:29:18,966
It was an old bridge

564
00:29:19,091 --> 00:29:22,052
and it is very narrow.

565
00:29:22,595 --> 00:29:25,431
I'm just really focused
on getting back

566
00:29:25,556 --> 00:29:28,517
to Alvin, Texas,
where I lived.

567
00:29:28,809 --> 00:29:30,603
I was headed back that way

568
00:29:30,728 --> 00:29:32,229
and looking forward
to seeing my family,

569
00:29:32,354 --> 00:29:35,691
which I missed for three
days, especially my wife.

570
00:29:37,109 --> 00:29:38,277
What I didn't know

571
00:29:38,402 --> 00:29:41,363
was that steep
embankment was there.

572
00:29:42,823 --> 00:29:44,783
It's like going on a tunnel

573
00:29:44,909 --> 00:29:46,827
because you had this
big metal superstructure

574
00:29:46,952 --> 00:29:49,872
above you,
on both sides of you.

575
00:29:50,372 --> 00:29:52,124
You can see only really

576
00:29:52,249 --> 00:29:55,169
to the end of the bridge
and then

577
00:29:55,461 --> 00:29:57,463
the highway goes up.

578
00:29:57,588 --> 00:30:00,591
So I couldn't see beyond
the end of the bridge.

579
00:30:01,008 --> 00:30:02,927
Out of nowhere, a tractor

580
00:30:03,052 --> 00:30:05,971
trailer truck
hit the car in his lane,

581
00:30:06,222 --> 00:30:09,350
then came over to my lane
and hit me head on.

582
00:30:22,947 --> 00:30:25,407
When we approached
the bridge,

583
00:30:25,533 --> 00:30:27,910
the first thing on
the right

584
00:30:28,035 --> 00:30:31,080
was this large 18 wheeler,
and then the next

585
00:30:31,205 --> 00:30:33,624
thing on the left,
I believe, was a gray car.

586
00:30:33,749 --> 00:30:36,669
It had a single older
man in it.

587
00:30:37,753 --> 00:30:40,923
Then the next thing
was Don's red car

588
00:30:41,048 --> 00:30:43,342
that was all crushed
and smashed.

589
00:30:43,467 --> 00:30:46,011
So we were only
four vehicles on the bridge

590
00:30:46,136 --> 00:30:47,429
at that point.

591
00:30:47,555 --> 00:30:48,430
I was stationed

592
00:30:48,556 --> 00:30:50,057
in Walker
County at the time.

593
00:30:50,182 --> 00:30:51,725
I said,
How does it look for him?

594
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,644
And they said,
"not good at all."

595
00:30:53,769 --> 00:30:56,021
That was, you know, just
something I never forgot.

596
00:30:56,146 --> 00:30:57,565
I mean, was seeing that

597
00:30:57,690 --> 00:30:59,858
it was a miserable,
miserable day.

598
00:30:59,984 --> 00:31:01,485
Traffic is backed
up from miles

599
00:31:01,610 --> 00:31:03,612
in both directions
because at that time

600
00:31:03,737 --> 00:31:06,073
there was the only bridge
across that lake,

601
00:31:06,198 --> 00:31:07,241
in fact, Dick Onarecker.

602
00:31:07,408 --> 00:31:08,158
And Anita

603
00:31:08,284 --> 00:31:11,787
had to leave their car
and walk up on the bridge

604
00:31:11,912 --> 00:31:14,748
to get to where
the accident was.

605
00:31:14,873 --> 00:31:16,875
Police approached
Dick first and said,

606
00:31:17,001 --> 00:31:18,919
Don't even bother
with that man.

607
00:31:19,044 --> 00:31:21,547
I've already checked him
and he has no pulse.

608
00:31:21,672 --> 00:31:23,549
And then Dick did check,

609
00:31:23,674 --> 00:31:26,093
and he could not
identify any pulse.

610
00:31:27,678 --> 00:31:30,598
You could see from this
wrecking yard picture that

611
00:31:30,723 --> 00:31:33,684
the trajectory of the truck
as it went over.

612
00:31:34,935 --> 00:31:37,730
When the truck hit me,
it literally took

613
00:31:37,855 --> 00:31:40,816
this arm over my shoulder
into the back seat.

614
00:31:41,859 --> 00:31:42,860
The steering wheel

615
00:31:42,985 --> 00:31:46,155
actually went horizontal
and into my chest

616
00:31:47,239 --> 00:31:50,159
My head had banged up
against the metal side

617
00:31:50,284 --> 00:31:53,245
of the interior of the car.

618
00:31:53,495 --> 00:31:56,498
My right leg
was broken at the knee,

619
00:31:56,957 --> 00:32:00,461
but I must have slid on
the seat a little sideways

620
00:32:01,128 --> 00:32:02,838
because it hit
from that angle.

621
00:32:02,963 --> 00:32:06,008
And when it did, it
literally severed my left

622
00:32:06,133 --> 00:32:09,136
leg just above the knee,

623
00:32:10,054 --> 00:32:13,182
and four and a half
inches of the femur

624
00:32:13,515 --> 00:32:17,019
was ejected from the car
and actually never found.

625
00:32:17,895 --> 00:32:19,271
I had been
killed instantly.

626
00:32:19,396 --> 00:32:21,523
My heart was not beating,

627
00:32:21,649 --> 00:32:23,275
so it was not
pumping blood.

628
00:32:24,568 --> 00:32:27,571
I died on the bridge.

629
00:32:34,036 --> 00:32:37,039
I'm a board certified
orthopedic spine surgeon

630
00:32:37,790 --> 00:32:42,711
and physicians
spend their entire career

631
00:32:44,129 --> 00:32:45,506
evading death.

632
00:32:45,631 --> 00:32:49,009
We believe that
if we are smart enough,

633
00:32:49,385 --> 00:32:51,303
if we are
well-trained enough,

634
00:32:51,428 --> 00:32:54,765
and if we do a good enough
job that we can control

635
00:32:54,890 --> 00:32:57,893
the outcomes, that we can
control the variables

636
00:32:58,018 --> 00:33:01,021
and we can cheat death.

637
00:33:03,732 --> 00:33:06,819
My husband and I
were avid kayakers.

638
00:33:07,903 --> 00:33:09,988
Kayaking is

639
00:33:10,114 --> 00:33:13,117
both challenging
and exhilarating.

640
00:33:13,575 --> 00:33:16,328
We began to go down
the river.

641
00:33:16,453 --> 00:33:19,081
We went over
the first couple of drops.

642
00:33:19,206 --> 00:33:22,251
It was very high flow,
very high

643
00:33:22,376 --> 00:33:24,378
current, strong current.

644
00:33:24,503 --> 00:33:27,214
There is another client
that sort of bobbled

645
00:33:27,339 --> 00:33:29,258
her way past me and

646
00:33:29,383 --> 00:33:32,386
ended up sideways at the
entrance to the chute.

647
00:33:33,220 --> 00:33:36,140
So my only option
was to veer over

648
00:33:36,265 --> 00:33:38,392
and go over the
main part of the waterfall

649
00:33:43,021 --> 00:33:45,149
and the
front end of my boat

650
00:33:45,274 --> 00:33:48,235
became pinned

651
00:33:51,488 --> 00:33:53,282
and the boat and I
were then

652
00:33:53,407 --> 00:33:56,910
completely submerged under
8 to 10 feet of water.

653
00:34:04,668 --> 00:34:07,963
I recognized that I was
probably going to drown.

654
00:34:12,426 --> 00:34:15,345
I would think about
the fact that

655
00:34:15,471 --> 00:34:18,515
I must be dead,
but I didn't feel dead.

656
00:34:19,308 --> 00:34:22,269
I felt more alive
than I've ever felt.

657
00:34:24,646 --> 00:34:27,107
I felt this
incredible experience

658
00:34:27,232 --> 00:34:30,152
like I was just
part of the water.

659
00:34:30,694 --> 00:34:33,697
I felt magnificent,
actually.

660
00:34:34,740 --> 00:34:37,826
I knew that
I was being held by Christ

661
00:34:39,036 --> 00:34:42,039
as purely as I know,

662
00:34:42,414 --> 00:34:43,665
anything.

663
00:34:45,375 --> 00:34:47,961
I know it sounds crazy,

664
00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:52,174
but it's just
something that

665
00:34:53,217 --> 00:34:56,220
is outside of our language.

666
00:34:57,429 --> 00:34:59,932
We went up a
world famous climb,

667
00:35:00,057 --> 00:35:02,559
maybe 500 feet,
three pitches up

668
00:35:02,684 --> 00:35:04,436
As the train
started pulling out,

669
00:35:04,561 --> 00:35:06,438
I just thought, This is it.
I'm going to die.

670
00:35:06,563 --> 00:35:08,607
I took a corner
to a 90 miles

671
00:35:08,732 --> 00:35:11,193
an hour, flipped over,
and it landed on the top.

672
00:35:11,318 --> 00:35:13,612
All I remember seeing was a
big white, white light.

673
00:35:13,737 --> 00:35:15,864
The knife had gone all
the way through my liver.

674
00:35:15,989 --> 00:35:19,034
I had a punctured lung and
I started feeling myself

675
00:35:19,701 --> 00:35:20,702
leave my body.

676
00:35:20,828 --> 00:35:22,704
You were in the hospital
bed, right?

677
00:35:22,830 --> 00:35:24,414
But you had left your body
and you

678
00:35:24,540 --> 00:35:26,458
My body was on
the bed and my spirit...

679
00:35:26,583 --> 00:35:28,126
and I could see
in every direction.

680
00:35:28,252 --> 00:35:29,962
Up on the ceiling
looking down.

681
00:35:30,087 --> 00:35:32,840
There was this feeling of a
presence. It felt like God

682
00:35:32,965 --> 00:35:34,758
Not like this guy
up in the sky.

683
00:35:34,925 --> 00:35:35,968
And that was God.

684
00:35:36,093 --> 00:35:37,094
I just know it was God

685
00:35:37,219 --> 00:35:39,054
The meaning of life,
of everything,

686
00:35:39,179 --> 00:35:41,139
It was unlike anything
I've ever experienced.

687
00:35:41,265 --> 00:35:42,850
I have no fear of death.

688
00:35:42,975 --> 00:35:45,561
...it's with total knowledge
and unconditional love...

689
00:35:45,686 --> 00:35:48,564
It was all the love that
is in the universe.

690
00:35:48,730 --> 00:35:50,858
Death is not the end.
It's probably the beginning.

691
00:35:50,983 --> 00:35:52,276
I looked into his eyes,
It was like

692
00:35:52,401 --> 00:35:54,361
I was looking
at forever inside of him,

693
00:35:54,486 --> 00:35:55,779
and I could see the love
he had for me.

694
00:35:55,904 --> 00:35:57,614
You know,
people don't believe you

695
00:35:57,739 --> 00:36:00,242
when you say the story,
but it's just so real.

696
00:36:03,912 --> 00:36:07,082
Almost 30 minutes
had gone by.

697
00:36:07,249 --> 00:36:11,253
Enough time had passed
that they had shifted from

698
00:36:11,753 --> 00:36:15,173
a rescue mode to purely
a body recovery mode.

699
00:36:16,133 --> 00:36:20,178
I could see this
bloated purple body

700
00:36:20,304 --> 00:36:24,391
and I never felt alive
and then dead.

701
00:36:24,516 --> 00:36:27,603
I never felt conscious
and unconscious.

702
00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:30,731
I felt conscious
and then more conscious

703
00:36:30,856 --> 00:36:35,110
I felt alive
and then more alive.

704
00:36:37,237 --> 00:36:40,866
I came into this
thing skeptical, mean

705
00:36:40,991 --> 00:36:43,952
I could have very easily
blown this whole thing off.

706
00:36:44,077 --> 00:36:45,537
If you go
to the resuscitation

707
00:36:45,662 --> 00:36:46,747
for 20 minutes

708
00:36:46,872 --> 00:36:47,539
and you've been

709
00:36:47,664 --> 00:36:50,584
without oxygen
for 20 minutes or whatever,

710
00:36:51,501 --> 00:36:53,795
you're going to lose
some neurons,

711
00:36:53,921 --> 00:36:55,130
You're going to
have brain damage.

712
00:36:55,255 --> 00:36:56,924
You may not
live either.

713
00:36:57,049 --> 00:36:59,718
You'll die a
neurologic death

714
00:36:59,843 --> 00:37:02,804
general rule is, the longer
without the oxygen.

715
00:37:03,138 --> 00:37:06,808
Normally, the more brain
damage you're going to have,

716
00:37:07,184 --> 00:37:10,854
and it's progressive
until it's restored.

717
00:37:12,147 --> 00:37:14,274
A new study may
provide answers

718
00:37:14,399 --> 00:37:15,484
to the age old question

719
00:37:15,609 --> 00:37:18,570
What happens to our brains
when we die?

720
00:37:20,572 --> 00:37:24,618
The brain has always
been the most fascinating

721
00:37:24,826 --> 00:37:26,036
and the most interesting

722
00:37:26,161 --> 00:37:27,913
organ to me
because to the world

723
00:37:28,038 --> 00:37:30,165
it is completely
unexplored.

724
00:37:30,290 --> 00:37:32,209
I was working in Vancouver
at the Vancouver

725
00:37:32,334 --> 00:37:33,335
General Hospital.

726
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:35,754
This was the 87 year
old gentleman.

727
00:37:35,879 --> 00:37:38,799
He came during
the emergency shift

728
00:37:39,383 --> 00:37:43,261
with a bleed between
the brain and the skull.

729
00:37:43,387 --> 00:37:46,348
We call it
a subdural hematoma.

730
00:37:46,682 --> 00:37:48,976
And we decided to operate.

731
00:37:49,101 --> 00:37:50,644
We removed the skull.

732
00:37:50,769 --> 00:37:51,979
We removed the bleeding.

733
00:37:52,104 --> 00:37:53,772
He did fairly well
after the surgery

734
00:37:53,897 --> 00:37:55,816
for about three days.

735
00:37:56,066 --> 00:37:58,694
And then he started
having seizures.

736
00:37:58,819 --> 00:38:02,531
So we went and applied
an EEG to see

737
00:38:02,656 --> 00:38:04,658
where the seizures
are coming from

738
00:38:04,783 --> 00:38:06,284
and how to treat them.

739
00:38:06,410 --> 00:38:08,286
Once we had this applied,

740
00:38:08,578 --> 00:38:10,414
he had a heart
attack and died.

741
00:38:12,582 --> 00:38:14,626
So that left us with

742
00:38:14,751 --> 00:38:18,171
the rare recording
of the human brain

743
00:38:18,296 --> 00:38:20,007
that went from a life
to death.

744
00:38:21,008 --> 00:38:24,720
It's the first ever
recording of a dying human

745
00:38:24,845 --> 00:38:27,848
brain, one that happened
entirely by chance.

746
00:38:27,973 --> 00:38:29,808
We've heard about people

747
00:38:29,933 --> 00:38:32,352
before who have faced
near death experiences.

748
00:38:32,477 --> 00:38:34,479
Describe this moment

749
00:38:34,604 --> 00:38:36,189
where they were
the important moments

750
00:38:36,314 --> 00:38:38,191
in their life
flashed before their head.

751
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:39,735
Is that
what we're talking about?

752
00:38:39,860 --> 00:38:41,445
Is that what this is?

753
00:38:41,570 --> 00:38:42,738
From what
this case of

754
00:38:42,863 --> 00:38:43,697
One tells us

755
00:38:43,822 --> 00:38:45,741
all the things
they are consistently

756
00:38:45,866 --> 00:38:48,452
being described
by people who undergo

757
00:38:48,577 --> 00:38:50,037
near-death experience.

758
00:38:50,162 --> 00:38:52,873
These guys have exhibited
these brain waves

759
00:38:52,998 --> 00:38:55,917
that exactly the same ones
we're measuring

760
00:38:56,043 --> 00:38:59,421
when we record the activity
of this patient

761
00:38:59,796 --> 00:39:00,464
30 seconds

762
00:39:00,589 --> 00:39:02,174
before the heart stops
beating

763
00:39:02,299 --> 00:39:05,260
and 30 seconds after
the heart stops beating,

764
00:39:05,677 --> 00:39:07,846
that we found
was quite astonishing.

765
00:39:08,889 --> 00:39:11,058
After searching
and searching,

766
00:39:11,183 --> 00:39:14,394
we had not found anybody
at the time when we wrote

767
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,438
the manuscript
and submitted it

768
00:39:16,563 --> 00:39:19,858
that had full brain
recordings

769
00:39:19,983 --> 00:39:21,777
from the dying human brain.

770
00:39:21,902 --> 00:39:24,905
Under acute
clinical environments.

771
00:39:25,572 --> 00:39:28,700
brain waves
are always present

772
00:39:28,992 --> 00:39:31,703
in our brain.

773
00:39:31,828 --> 00:39:34,956
They differ in frequency,

774
00:39:35,082 --> 00:39:39,586
meaning how many times
per second they oscillate.

775
00:39:39,961 --> 00:39:44,841
The high frequency waves
are called gamma waves.

776
00:39:45,467 --> 00:39:48,095
Then the lower ones
we call them

777
00:39:48,220 --> 00:39:51,223
beta, theta,
alpha and delta waves.

778
00:39:51,598 --> 00:39:54,768
Those are slower
frequent oscillations.

779
00:39:54,893 --> 00:39:58,897
We found
an increased interplay

780
00:39:59,022 --> 00:40:01,983
of these oscillatory bands
with each other.

781
00:40:03,318 --> 00:40:06,530
We looked at how this,
for example,

782
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,700
theta waves that are
known for memory recall,

783
00:40:10,826 --> 00:40:14,496
how do they couple
with gamma waves?

784
00:40:14,913 --> 00:40:17,499
And we found an increased
coupling of the

785
00:40:17,624 --> 00:40:20,502
two after a heart
stopped beating.

786
00:40:20,627 --> 00:40:23,421
The brain is a prediction
machine that is designed

787
00:40:23,547 --> 00:40:24,381
for survival.

788
00:40:25,549 --> 00:40:26,591
So we see something,

789
00:40:26,716 --> 00:40:27,843
we interpret the signal,

790
00:40:27,968 --> 00:40:29,594
we generate a response

791
00:40:30,345 --> 00:40:33,807
in all kinds of responses
that the brain generates.

792
00:40:34,766 --> 00:40:38,562
The only one we can measure
right now is movement.

793
00:40:39,855 --> 00:40:42,732
We can't measure
what we call thinking.

794
00:40:42,858 --> 00:40:44,317
Can you measure emotions?

795
00:40:44,442 --> 00:40:45,110
Feelings?

796
00:40:45,235 --> 00:40:46,278
I don't know what
to answer you.

797
00:40:46,403 --> 00:40:48,196
We can't measure
all these things.

798
00:40:48,321 --> 00:40:51,324
We know that the brain
somehow does these things.

799
00:40:51,950 --> 00:40:53,034
We may never understand

800
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,578
what exactly happens.

801
00:40:54,703 --> 00:40:56,037
And maybe that's not the most

802
00:40:56,163 --> 00:40:57,873
important thing either.

803
00:40:58,456 --> 00:40:59,583
If the science

804
00:40:59,708 --> 00:41:02,544
can contribute even
a minute percentage

805
00:41:02,669 --> 00:41:04,754
and can shed light

806
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,175
on the nature
of the human brain dying.

807
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:09,968
If I could go to
my patients

808
00:41:10,093 --> 00:41:11,511
and I could tell them,

809
00:41:11,636 --> 00:41:15,265
it may be that your loved
one is replaying

810
00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:17,225
some of the memories
of their life.

811
00:41:18,852 --> 00:41:21,855
It somehow
makes things easier.

812
00:41:22,063 --> 00:41:24,733
It tells them
they're not suffering.

813
00:41:24,858 --> 00:41:27,819
That, I think, would help
patients in that

814
00:41:27,944 --> 00:41:30,906
tremendously
difficult time.

815
00:41:41,416 --> 00:41:43,335
Growing up in South Korea.

816
00:41:43,460 --> 00:41:44,961
I grew up in a
Buddhist home.

817
00:41:45,086 --> 00:41:46,463
Ever since the age
of six, seven,

818
00:41:46,588 --> 00:41:50,508
I was asking questions
like, Why are humans made?

819
00:41:50,634 --> 00:41:52,636
Why are we born?

820
00:41:52,761 --> 00:41:55,180
What is the purpose
of mankind?

821
00:41:55,305 --> 00:41:57,349
Why am I here?

822
00:41:57,474 --> 00:41:58,892
The Buddhist
monks at the temple

823
00:41:59,017 --> 00:42:00,518
would say things like,
Oh yeah, Steve,

824
00:42:00,644 --> 00:42:02,354
you can go to heaven,
you can go to hell,

825
00:42:02,479 --> 00:42:03,271
come back,

826
00:42:03,396 --> 00:42:04,439
you can get reincarnated

827
00:42:04,564 --> 00:42:06,524
into an animal
or a different species.

828
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:08,485
They taught you how to do
right and do wrong,

829
00:42:08,610 --> 00:42:10,654
and try to earn
your salvation.

830
00:42:10,779 --> 00:42:13,615
My mother, who was trained
as a registered nurse,

831
00:42:13,740 --> 00:42:14,407
she got recruited

832
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:17,494
by a VA veterans
hospital in Boston.

833
00:42:18,328 --> 00:42:20,038
You know, she prepared
the way for us to come.

834
00:42:20,163 --> 00:42:22,415
So I came with my younger
brother in elementary school.

835
00:42:26,628 --> 00:42:27,420
The older I got,

836
00:42:27,545 --> 00:42:30,048
middle school and
even up to freshman year,

837
00:42:30,173 --> 00:42:31,925
and I remember
feeling a lot of confusion.

838
00:42:32,050 --> 00:42:33,760
I remember looking
in the mirror and saying,

839
00:42:33,885 --> 00:42:35,470
How come I'm the only one?

840
00:42:35,595 --> 00:42:37,806
How come I have
to be Korean?

841
00:42:37,931 --> 00:42:40,350
And it was a big struggle
and led me to become

842
00:42:40,475 --> 00:42:41,309
a little rebellious.

843
00:42:41,434 --> 00:42:44,145
Like I joined the garage
band. I tried to...

844
00:42:44,271 --> 00:42:45,313
I think I tried
a little harder

845
00:42:45,438 --> 00:42:48,400
than others
to try to fit in.

846
00:42:49,192 --> 00:42:51,736
And I just remember,
you know, always feeling

847
00:42:51,861 --> 00:42:54,739
a little empty, feeling
confusion and emptiness.

848
00:42:54,864 --> 00:42:56,199
You know, from high school.

849
00:42:58,994 --> 00:43:00,954
I remember
in the summer of 1998,

850
00:43:01,079 --> 00:43:02,998
we will get high
in the morning,

851
00:43:03,123 --> 00:43:05,709
in the afternoon, in the
evening, the whole summer.

852
00:43:05,834 --> 00:43:08,211
I don't remember
being sober for an hour.

853
00:43:08,336 --> 00:43:11,172
And my mom and brother
were getting super worried.

854
00:43:11,298 --> 00:43:12,799
I called the Buddhist
temple for help.

855
00:43:12,924 --> 00:43:14,009
They didn't help either.

856
00:43:14,134 --> 00:43:14,926
So I realized, like,

857
00:43:15,051 --> 00:43:18,513
this is something that is
beyond my power ability to

858
00:43:18,972 --> 00:43:20,640
to to save myself from.

859
00:43:22,976 --> 00:43:24,644
You know, people
say when they see demons

860
00:43:24,769 --> 00:43:26,187
or evil spirits,
they might think

861
00:43:26,313 --> 00:43:28,898
somebody comes
with a pitchfork and horns.

862
00:43:29,024 --> 00:43:30,442
But I had an open eye

863
00:43:30,567 --> 00:43:32,610
vision of all Asian
grandpa coming.

864
00:43:32,736 --> 00:43:34,529
He's talking to me
like I'm talking to you.

865
00:43:34,654 --> 00:43:35,447
He said, Hey, Steve,
I know you're

866
00:43:35,572 --> 00:43:36,323
having a hard time.

867
00:43:36,489 --> 00:43:39,617
If you commit suicide
and take your own life,

868
00:43:39,993 --> 00:43:42,954
then I can give you 50,000
less years of hell.

869
00:43:43,079 --> 00:43:44,664
And I'm like,
That's a great deal.

870
00:43:46,458 --> 00:43:47,917
I went to the kitchen.

871
00:43:48,043 --> 00:43:50,128
I grabbed the biggest
knife I could find.

872
00:43:50,253 --> 00:43:52,088
Got on my knees.

873
00:43:52,213 --> 00:43:53,048
So I grabbed a knife

874
00:43:53,173 --> 00:43:54,799
and I cut my
neck open here,

875
00:43:55,383 --> 00:43:58,053
which, you know,
was very painful.

876
00:43:58,386 --> 00:44:00,055
My mom sees the
event happening,

877
00:44:00,180 --> 00:44:01,890
so she calls 911.

878
00:44:02,015 --> 00:44:04,059
The cops came,
and then there's

879
00:44:04,184 --> 00:44:06,186
the Grandpa spirit is
still there speaking to me,

880
00:44:06,311 --> 00:44:07,062
says, Steve,
you got to hurry up.

881
00:44:07,187 --> 00:44:08,480
You're going
to miss your chance.

882
00:44:08,605 --> 00:44:09,397
Go for the stomach.

883
00:44:09,522 --> 00:44:14,110
So I cut my stomach open,
which actually is,

884
00:44:14,277 --> 00:44:16,363
you know, the scars
go down all the way here.

885
00:44:16,488 --> 00:44:18,698
I lost a big part
of my blood.

886
00:44:19,866 --> 00:44:22,869
The cops came
and whacked me with a bat.

887
00:44:23,161 --> 00:44:24,954
I dropped the knife.

888
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,540
I remember
losing consciousness.

889
00:44:27,665 --> 00:44:28,958
The whole living was
bloody red.

890
00:44:29,084 --> 00:44:31,753
My mom was crying.
I remember hearing her.

891
00:44:31,878 --> 00:44:32,962
They put me
in the stretcher

892
00:44:33,088 --> 00:44:34,839
because already I'm
very damaged.

893
00:44:34,964 --> 00:44:37,217
I'm losing blood,
like at a very fast rate

894
00:44:37,342 --> 00:44:39,344
and I'm going in of conscious.

895
00:44:39,469 --> 00:44:41,179
The grandpa spirits gone

896
00:44:41,304 --> 00:44:43,598
and then it was just into
the unknown after that.

897
00:44:44,182 --> 00:44:45,392
I remember coming out,

898
00:44:45,809 --> 00:44:49,437
seeing my body and then
seeing the E.R. room.

899
00:44:49,562 --> 00:44:53,900
I remember going through
just darkness, like even

900
00:44:54,025 --> 00:44:57,028
seeing rocks and stones
around me just falling.

901
00:44:57,695 --> 00:45:00,198
It just felt like I was
falling in an elevator.

902
00:45:00,323 --> 00:45:03,284
And I don't know how to
put it into words exactly,

903
00:45:03,618 --> 00:45:05,412
but I knew I was going
to a different place.

904
00:45:05,537 --> 00:45:07,080
There was still real,

905
00:45:07,205 --> 00:45:09,249
more real than anything
here on Earth.

906
00:45:09,374 --> 00:45:10,542
I was still fully
conscious.

907
00:45:10,667 --> 00:45:11,584
Everything's happening,

908
00:45:11,709 --> 00:45:13,086
but now it's like

909
00:45:13,211 --> 00:45:14,337
there's different
set of rules,

910
00:45:14,462 --> 00:45:17,257
there's a different set
of awarenesses.

911
00:45:17,382 --> 00:45:19,050
And you're saying
goodbye to Earth.

912
00:45:19,175 --> 00:45:21,136
I knew I was saying
goodbye to Earth.

913
00:45:21,261 --> 00:45:24,222
And going to
another place of eternity.

914
00:45:24,472 --> 00:45:26,850
And then God came to me
and like a ball of light,

915
00:45:26,975 --> 00:45:28,560
that became
like a triangle.

916
00:45:29,394 --> 00:45:31,646
Behind it I saw the city,

917
00:45:31,771 --> 00:45:33,982
I looked up and it was
glittering like gold.

918
00:45:34,107 --> 00:45:35,316
The walls were gold.

919
00:45:36,693 --> 00:45:37,569
I don't know how it works,

920
00:45:37,694 --> 00:45:40,613
but it's definitely
a place we go.

921
00:45:42,157 --> 00:45:44,075
I heard a voice
before I woke up.

922
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,618
I love you.

923
00:45:45,743 --> 00:45:48,705
And I open my eyes and I'm
in the emergency room.

924
00:45:48,830 --> 00:45:51,624
I was like,
Oh my God, I'm alive.

925
00:45:51,749 --> 00:45:53,251
So first of all, I was
so thankful I was alive.

926
00:45:53,376 --> 00:45:55,628
I look around,
my mom's there,

927
00:45:55,753 --> 00:45:58,465
she's crying, grabbing
my hand, son, you know,

928
00:45:58,590 --> 00:46:00,592
you, you regained
consciousness.

929
00:46:00,717 --> 00:46:03,011
And I was still trying
to process what happened,

930
00:46:03,136 --> 00:46:04,554
but I just knew
I was back on Earth.

931
00:46:06,681 --> 00:46:09,309
They said it took two
surgeries to cover

932
00:46:09,434 --> 00:46:10,602
the blood vessels
that were cut.

933
00:46:10,727 --> 00:46:13,354
A specialist had to fly in
at the last minute,

934
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:14,981
and if he was late,
they told me I would

935
00:46:15,106 --> 00:46:16,316
have been bye, bye forever.

936
00:46:16,441 --> 00:46:18,359
My heart and blood wouldn't
go back up.

937
00:46:18,485 --> 00:46:20,069
We just kept
sinking, sinking, sinking,

938
00:46:20,195 --> 00:46:21,529
during the whole surgery.

939
00:46:21,654 --> 00:46:23,156
And they said
it was a miracle.

940
00:46:23,281 --> 00:46:24,199
Good timing.

941
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:32,248
I know one thing, we all
live once and die once.

942
00:46:32,373 --> 00:46:34,751
And there is
judgment after.

943
00:46:42,509 --> 00:46:43,343
I think
that there are

944
00:46:43,468 --> 00:46:47,263
a lot of people that do
take advantage of this.

945
00:46:47,555 --> 00:46:49,807
The novelty
and the fascination

946
00:46:49,933 --> 00:46:52,810
of this experience.

947
00:46:52,936 --> 00:46:55,021
We're all to die
and we all want to know

948
00:46:55,146 --> 00:46:56,689
what's going to happen
once that happens.

949
00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:57,857
So, I mean,

950
00:46:57,982 --> 00:47:01,569
this is speaking to us all.
And of great importance.

951
00:47:02,695 --> 00:47:05,698
That can be abused.

952
00:47:06,908 --> 00:47:09,369
Some of these these cases

953
00:47:09,494 --> 00:47:11,829
are transmitted through

954
00:47:11,955 --> 00:47:14,666
several different people
before they get in print.

955
00:47:14,791 --> 00:47:16,209
And they get
a lot of attention

956
00:47:16,334 --> 00:47:17,418
because they're fantastic.

957
00:47:17,544 --> 00:47:19,003
But what I've tried to

958
00:47:19,128 --> 00:47:22,423
do is remove
some of the subjectivity

959
00:47:23,091 --> 00:47:26,010
to these experiences.

960
00:47:26,135 --> 00:47:28,304
And put data out there

961
00:47:28,429 --> 00:47:31,849
that's been scientifically,
rigorously collected.

962
00:47:32,934 --> 00:47:34,769
There's no way
you can verify

963
00:47:34,894 --> 00:47:37,272
the transcendental part
of the experience.

964
00:47:37,397 --> 00:47:38,856
The person feels like they go

965
00:47:38,982 --> 00:47:41,317
to an otherworldly
environment

966
00:47:41,442 --> 00:47:42,944
as opposed
to their environment

967
00:47:43,069 --> 00:47:44,779
right there in the room
with them.

968
00:47:44,904 --> 00:47:46,906
What really convinced
me and what convinced

969
00:47:47,031 --> 00:47:51,119
many skeptical doctors,
oncologist, cardiologist,

970
00:47:51,369 --> 00:47:54,956
is that when people
initially leave their body,

971
00:47:55,248 --> 00:47:56,583
they say that many times

972
00:47:56,708 --> 00:47:57,792
they were in the room

973
00:47:57,917 --> 00:48:00,837
still where they were being
resuscitated or worked on

974
00:48:01,004 --> 00:48:01,671
many times up

975
00:48:01,796 --> 00:48:04,716
near the ceiling,
looking down, watching.

976
00:48:04,882 --> 00:48:07,010
They felt incredible peace,
even though

977
00:48:07,135 --> 00:48:08,094
it was chaotic.

978
00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:11,055
oftentimes in the room

979
00:48:11,180 --> 00:48:13,182
where they were
working on their body,

980
00:48:14,183 --> 00:48:16,394
When they would come back,

981
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:19,480
they were able to give
corroborative evidence

982
00:48:19,939 --> 00:48:21,566
that they actually saw

983
00:48:21,691 --> 00:48:22,817
what was going on
in the room,

984
00:48:22,942 --> 00:48:24,611
even though
they were unconscious

985
00:48:24,736 --> 00:48:26,904
at the time they
were worked on.

986
00:48:27,030 --> 00:48:29,991
They shouldn't have
been able to see this.

987
00:48:30,450 --> 00:48:33,786
Autoscopic means
self-visualization.

988
00:48:33,911 --> 00:48:37,332
They were visualizing
themself from the ceiling,

989
00:48:37,498 --> 00:48:41,085
lying in bed, lifeless,
or being resuscitated.

990
00:48:42,503 --> 00:48:45,131
That is the verifiable part

991
00:48:45,256 --> 00:48:47,383
of a near-death experience,
where you can go back

992
00:48:47,508 --> 00:48:49,302
and either verify what
they said they saw

993
00:48:49,427 --> 00:48:51,179
or what
actually occurred.

994
00:48:51,304 --> 00:48:53,306
And that's what I wanted.

995
00:48:53,431 --> 00:48:54,474
That was the main thing

996
00:48:54,599 --> 00:48:56,726
that got me hooked
on this thing.

997
00:48:56,851 --> 00:48:58,728
And I paid
very little attention

998
00:48:58,853 --> 00:49:01,356
to the tunnel, the light,
the deceased relatives

999
00:49:01,481 --> 00:49:03,775
and friends,
the religious figures.

1000
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:07,153
For me as a
cardiologist, scientist,

1001
00:49:07,278 --> 00:49:08,446
and a physician,

1002
00:49:08,571 --> 00:49:10,156
I wanted some verification,

1003
00:49:10,281 --> 00:49:11,991
I wanted
some medical records.

1004
00:49:12,116 --> 00:49:14,827
I wanted to talk to people
who had been there

1005
00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:17,955
and seen what had
happened in the room.

1006
00:49:26,339 --> 00:49:27,799
Back in
the early 1990s,

1007
00:49:27,924 --> 00:49:30,510
when I was a resident
training and neurosurgery

1008
00:49:30,635 --> 00:49:33,638
at Phoenix and at the Barrow
Neurological Institute,

1009
00:49:33,763 --> 00:49:36,349
one of the best places
to go in the world.

1010
00:49:36,474 --> 00:49:39,394
It was a destination center
for neurosurgery.

1011
00:49:40,103 --> 00:49:41,479
I was on the Chairman
Service,

1012
00:49:41,604 --> 00:49:44,023
Dr. Robert Spetzler

1013
00:49:44,148 --> 00:49:47,360
and Dr. Spetzler is
world renowned.

1014
00:49:47,485 --> 00:49:49,153
There was a patient
who came to him

1015
00:49:49,278 --> 00:49:51,197
named Pamela Reynolds,

1016
00:49:52,532 --> 00:49:55,076
What we're looking
at is the aneurysm that she had.

1017
00:49:55,201 --> 00:49:57,203
Which is at the very
base of the brain.

1018
00:49:57,328 --> 00:49:59,288
This is the balloon
that can burst

1019
00:49:59,414 --> 00:50:02,166
and cause this
incredible catastrophe.

1020
00:50:02,291 --> 00:50:05,002
It's all the way at the
very base of the brain.

1021
00:50:05,128 --> 00:50:06,796
And that is why it's so

1022
00:50:06,921 --> 00:50:08,423
incredibly difficult
to get there.

1023
00:50:08,548 --> 00:50:10,550
The anatomical
location of the basal

1024
00:50:10,675 --> 00:50:13,678
artery is a neurosurgeons
no man's land.

1025
00:50:14,429 --> 00:50:16,389
She underwent an operation.

1026
00:50:16,514 --> 00:50:17,265
Again,

1027
00:50:17,390 --> 00:50:20,017
pretty unusual operation
called cardiac standstill.

1028
00:50:20,143 --> 00:50:21,978
I came in several times
into the operating room

1029
00:50:22,103 --> 00:50:23,312
because it's a cardiac

1030
00:50:23,438 --> 00:50:25,440
standstill case
and they're fascinating.

1031
00:50:25,565 --> 00:50:28,359
If you were going to
do a laboratory experiment,

1032
00:50:28,484 --> 00:50:30,153
this is the perfect
experiment.

1033
00:50:30,278 --> 00:50:32,155
She was put on the
operating room table

1034
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,241
and immediately put under
general anesthesia.

1035
00:50:35,700 --> 00:50:38,077
The cardiac
standstill operation requires

1036
00:50:38,202 --> 00:50:41,205
teams of medical providers,
surgical providers,

1037
00:50:41,414 --> 00:50:42,707
all of which is designed to:

1038
00:50:42,832 --> 00:50:46,002
1. drop the temperature of
a person's body.

1039
00:50:46,127 --> 00:50:49,464
2. Drain out all the blood
out of their body.

1040
00:50:49,589 --> 00:50:53,509
3. Keep them in a state
of suspended animation,

1041
00:50:53,968 --> 00:50:55,845
shut down brain function.

1042
00:50:55,970 --> 00:50:57,597
And you've actually
stopped the heart.

1043
00:51:00,057 --> 00:51:02,477
They had these things
in her ears

1044
00:51:02,602 --> 00:51:06,481
that emitted 95 to 100
decibel clicks.

1045
00:51:06,606 --> 00:51:08,149
If the click went off

1046
00:51:08,274 --> 00:51:11,360
and you saw spike
on the EEG

1047
00:51:11,486 --> 00:51:13,738
that was measuring
the brain stem,

1048
00:51:13,863 --> 00:51:16,491
then you knew
the brainstem was active.

1049
00:51:16,616 --> 00:51:18,034
No heart
that's beating,

1050
00:51:18,159 --> 00:51:21,788
a brain that's no
longer functioning.

1051
00:51:21,913 --> 00:51:23,372
And what they had to
do is get it

1052
00:51:23,498 --> 00:51:26,334
so that those clicks
were eliciting no

1053
00:51:26,459 --> 00:51:29,378
brainstem reactivity, i.e.

1054
00:51:29,504 --> 00:51:30,963
it was flatlined.

1055
00:51:32,465 --> 00:51:35,218
So was pretty
much totally isolated

1056
00:51:35,343 --> 00:51:37,595
from the environment
physically.

1057
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:41,140
And medically,
she was in a --

1058
00:51:41,265 --> 00:51:43,643
that's why they call
procedure standstill.

1059
00:51:43,768 --> 00:51:45,520
Everything
was at a standstill.

1060
00:51:46,771 --> 00:51:47,939
She would be
clinically dead

1061
00:51:48,064 --> 00:51:50,274
for a whole hour
of the operation.

1062
00:51:52,401 --> 00:51:55,238
She had a three part
near-death experience.

1063
00:51:55,363 --> 00:51:57,698
The first part
was out-of-body,

1064
00:51:57,824 --> 00:51:59,242
autoscopic part,

1065
00:51:59,367 --> 00:52:02,620
When Spetzler first started
up the brain saw

1066
00:52:03,371 --> 00:52:06,165
she heard the conversation
between Spetzler and

1067
00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:07,458
the surgeon

1068
00:52:07,583 --> 00:52:09,710
about the artery
being too small

1069
00:52:09,836 --> 00:52:10,962
in her right
femoral artery,

1070
00:52:11,087 --> 00:52:13,506
and they had to switch
over to the left.

1071
00:52:13,631 --> 00:52:14,674
The visual part.

1072
00:52:14,799 --> 00:52:18,678
She saw the bone saw,
which I didn't even know

1073
00:52:18,803 --> 00:52:21,722
what it looked like myself
as a cardiologist.

1074
00:52:21,848 --> 00:52:23,432
And I was then
looking down at the body.

1075
00:52:23,558 --> 00:52:26,894
I knew it was my body,
but I didn't care.

1076
00:52:27,645 --> 00:52:29,772
My vantage
point was sort of

1077
00:52:29,897 --> 00:52:32,024
sitting on the doctor's
shoulder.

1078
00:52:32,149 --> 00:52:35,236
I remember the instrument
in his hand.

1079
00:52:36,070 --> 00:52:39,866
It looked like the handle
of my electric toothbrush.

1080
00:52:39,991 --> 00:52:42,952
And then she said
that there was this tray

1081
00:52:43,452 --> 00:52:47,248
of instruments
to the right of Spetzler,

1082
00:52:47,498 --> 00:52:50,209
that it looked like
the socket wrench set that

1083
00:52:50,334 --> 00:52:51,544
her father used to have.

1084
00:52:53,087 --> 00:52:56,048
And then the other stuff
was the same autoscopic.

1085
00:52:56,173 --> 00:52:58,384
And in between
those two experiences,

1086
00:52:58,509 --> 00:52:59,594
which she relates

1087
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,722
the experience
as a continuous experience,

1088
00:53:03,347 --> 00:53:05,182
she had the transcendental
experience.

1089
00:53:05,308 --> 00:53:06,517
I felt a presence.

1090
00:53:06,642 --> 00:53:08,019
I sort of turned around

1091
00:53:08,144 --> 00:53:10,521
to look at a
pin-point of light.

1092
00:53:10,646 --> 00:53:12,815
Well, how do you know
the transcendental

1093
00:53:12,940 --> 00:53:14,567
experience happened

1094
00:53:14,692 --> 00:53:16,736
when the blood was drained
out of her head?

1095
00:53:16,861 --> 00:53:18,863
Well, you don't.

1096
00:53:18,988 --> 00:53:21,240
All you can do is infer it.

1097
00:53:21,365 --> 00:53:22,533
You can't prove it.

1098
00:53:22,658 --> 00:53:24,702
The other two are
time anchored.

1099
00:53:24,827 --> 00:53:27,038
The middle is not.

1100
00:53:30,041 --> 00:53:31,334
Pam came back,

1101
00:53:32,126 --> 00:53:34,253
I believe,
the following day.

1102
00:53:35,171 --> 00:53:36,839
As with every patient,
I'm rounding on her

1103
00:53:36,964 --> 00:53:39,592
in the intensive care unit
before the chairman rounds

1104
00:53:39,717 --> 00:53:42,720
and she's awake
talking with me.

1105
00:53:43,220 --> 00:53:44,472
You know, usually ask the

1106
00:53:44,597 --> 00:53:45,932
typical questions
How are you feeling?

1107
00:53:46,057 --> 00:53:48,601
after that tube was removed
from her by extubation

1108
00:53:48,726 --> 00:53:50,353
and she was able
to control her airway

1109
00:53:50,478 --> 00:53:52,521
and she was becoming
more lucid?

1110
00:53:52,647 --> 00:53:54,649
Well, she
had a lot to talk about.

1111
00:53:55,650 --> 00:53:56,609
She began to

1112
00:53:56,734 --> 00:53:59,737
describe some details
about her operation.

1113
00:54:00,279 --> 00:54:02,490
And as she spoke,

1114
00:54:02,615 --> 00:54:04,825
I became spooked.

1115
00:54:07,203 --> 00:54:09,664
She talked about her
blood vessels and her

1116
00:54:09,789 --> 00:54:12,750
groin, being canulated
and being too small.

1117
00:54:14,293 --> 00:54:17,254
She talked about her
heart being shocked twice.

1118
00:54:18,506 --> 00:54:21,509
Giving me details that
she just shouldn't know.

1119
00:54:22,009 --> 00:54:25,012
I sort of put the kibosh
on the conversation.

1120
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:27,974
"Pam, you need
to get some rest.

1121
00:54:28,099 --> 00:54:29,600
I'll come back later."

1122
00:54:29,725 --> 00:54:30,643
I went to my chairman

1123
00:54:30,768 --> 00:54:33,437
and told Dr. Spetzler,

1124
00:54:33,562 --> 00:54:35,815
"You need to talk
with Pam Reynolds.

1125
00:54:36,649 --> 00:54:39,652
She's describing stuff that
she just shouldn't know.

1126
00:54:40,152 --> 00:54:42,655
This ain't right."

1127
00:54:44,031 --> 00:54:44,991
Functionally speaking,

1128
00:54:45,116 --> 00:54:46,909
Pam, was dead.

1129
00:54:47,952 --> 00:54:50,830
Typically, when
people are coming out of a dream

1130
00:54:50,955 --> 00:54:51,664
in the morning,

1131
00:54:51,789 --> 00:54:54,709
they feel like they're
coming back to reality.

1132
00:54:55,042 --> 00:54:58,462
But people who have
a near-death experience

1133
00:54:58,587 --> 00:55:01,340
say that is they
go into that experience,

1134
00:55:01,590 --> 00:55:04,468
it's this life
that becomes dreamlike.

1135
00:55:04,593 --> 00:55:07,555
People feel that
when they, from the world's

1136
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,392
point of view, are dying,
they actually are waking up

1137
00:55:11,892 --> 00:55:15,187
to a reality that
this state of existence

1138
00:55:15,312 --> 00:55:17,857
that we're in now
seemed like a dream or

1139
00:55:17,982 --> 00:55:19,275
as though you're asleep.

1140
00:55:25,072 --> 00:55:25,948
I think
the near-death

1141
00:55:26,073 --> 00:55:29,243
experience is where
science meets religion.

1142
00:55:29,368 --> 00:55:32,329
There is a big difference
between proof and evidence.

1143
00:55:32,538 --> 00:55:34,081
This is all evidence,

1144
00:55:34,206 --> 00:55:36,751
but enough evidence
at some point

1145
00:55:36,876 --> 00:55:42,465
makes it so close to proof
that most people would say

1146
00:55:43,841 --> 00:55:44,550
it's right,

1147
00:55:44,675 --> 00:55:46,093
it's real.

1148
00:55:48,637 --> 00:55:51,640
I got to watch what I say
because I don't want to

1149
00:55:51,891 --> 00:55:54,894
unnecessarily
alienate people.

1150
00:55:55,102 --> 00:55:57,938
I think skepticism is good

1151
00:55:58,064 --> 00:55:59,982
skepticism, true
skepticism.

1152
00:56:00,107 --> 00:56:02,193
But rigidity is not.

1153
00:56:02,318 --> 00:56:04,070
In other words,
if you have an

1154
00:56:04,195 --> 00:56:07,239
ideological opposition
to something

1155
00:56:07,782 --> 00:56:11,327
and you fight tooth
and nail to support it,

1156
00:56:11,535 --> 00:56:14,538
or at least advocate it

1157
00:56:15,331 --> 00:56:17,500
and refuse
to look at the other side,

1158
00:56:17,625 --> 00:56:19,043
that's not being objective.

1159
00:56:19,168 --> 00:56:20,753
There's a lot
about the afterlife

1160
00:56:20,878 --> 00:56:22,338
that we don't know
for sure.

1161
00:56:22,463 --> 00:56:25,341
We'll all know for real
only after we die.

1162
00:56:25,466 --> 00:56:27,510
And not completely
before then.

1163
00:56:28,094 --> 00:56:30,763
There have been lots
of alternate theories

1164
00:56:30,888 --> 00:56:32,807
fighter pilots syndrome.

1165
00:56:34,183 --> 00:56:34,850
You're pulling G's,

1166
00:56:34,975 --> 00:56:36,977
It feels like you're
going through a tunnel.

1167
00:56:37,103 --> 00:56:37,978
Some say

1168
00:56:38,104 --> 00:56:41,732
psychedelic drugs like
DMT or LSD or mescaline,

1169
00:56:42,733 --> 00:56:45,027
vibrant colors and, and,

1170
00:56:45,152 --> 00:56:48,114
maybe going to
another place,

1171
00:56:48,697 --> 00:56:51,617
You name it, DMT,
Ketamine, LSD,

1172
00:56:51,742 --> 00:56:52,868
those are

1173
00:56:52,993 --> 00:56:55,579
generally illicit
substances that produce

1174
00:56:55,704 --> 00:56:56,747
hallucinatory effects.

1175
00:56:56,872 --> 00:56:58,332
And in fact, many people

1176
00:56:58,457 --> 00:57:00,334
that take these
illicit substances

1177
00:57:00,459 --> 00:57:03,337
and the difference between
the experience they have

1178
00:57:03,462 --> 00:57:06,132
and the typical near-death
experience

1179
00:57:06,257 --> 00:57:07,633
is very striking.

1180
00:57:08,342 --> 00:57:10,970
The problem is that

1181
00:57:11,095 --> 00:57:14,473
all of those might describe
one aspect.

1182
00:57:16,058 --> 00:57:19,019
You have people
and we're talking thousands

1183
00:57:19,145 --> 00:57:22,857
and thousands of people
all around the globe, old,

1184
00:57:22,982 --> 00:57:26,569
young, sighted
people, blind people.

1185
00:57:27,069 --> 00:57:29,446
And they're saying
the same thing,

1186
00:57:29,572 --> 00:57:32,324
though on the other side,
blind people can see

1187
00:57:32,449 --> 00:57:35,077
they have to adjust to it,
to describing things

1188
00:57:35,202 --> 00:57:38,038
that they see, but
they see the same things.

1189
00:57:38,164 --> 00:57:41,208
And there was one study
done with 23 blind people,

1190
00:57:41,333 --> 00:57:43,919
14 of them
blind from birth,

1191
00:57:44,044 --> 00:57:45,171
two of them that I report

1192
00:57:45,296 --> 00:57:48,257
about describe the light
coming out of everything.

1193
00:57:49,049 --> 00:57:51,343
There's the near-death
experience of Marta.

1194
00:57:51,468 --> 00:57:54,805
She was a five-year-old
girl and totally blind.

1195
00:57:55,264 --> 00:57:58,017
Marta went into a lake
and drowned,

1196
00:57:58,142 --> 00:58:00,853
and her consciousness rose
above her body.

1197
00:58:00,978 --> 00:58:04,231
She described vividly
details of birds' feathers,

1198
00:58:04,356 --> 00:58:07,276
birds' eyes,
details on telephone poles.

1199
00:58:07,443 --> 00:58:10,654
It's remarkable to me
how someone totally blind

1200
00:58:11,071 --> 00:58:12,156
can be fascinated

1201
00:58:12,281 --> 00:58:14,617
by mundane
things that you and I

1202
00:58:14,742 --> 00:58:16,493
would not consider
to be so exciting.

1203
00:58:16,619 --> 00:58:18,746
Seeing this
for the first time

1204
00:58:18,871 --> 00:58:20,956
while she's unconscious

1205
00:58:21,081 --> 00:58:22,958
and below the
surface of the water

1206
00:58:23,083 --> 00:58:25,586
and yet having a
near-death experience.

1207
00:58:25,711 --> 00:58:29,256
So how do you get
a lucid experience

1208
00:58:29,882 --> 00:58:32,468
that happens both
for people who have had

1209
00:58:34,011 --> 00:58:35,429
hallucinogenic

1210
00:58:35,554 --> 00:58:38,224
drugs potentially
in the hospital or,

1211
00:58:38,349 --> 00:58:40,017
you know, anesthesia,

1212
00:58:40,142 --> 00:58:41,143
But they're saying

1213
00:58:41,268 --> 00:58:44,188
the same things as those
who have had no anesthesia

1214
00:58:44,313 --> 00:58:46,941
and the same things
that little kids say,

1215
00:58:47,066 --> 00:58:48,734
the same things that people
from different

1216
00:58:48,859 --> 00:58:50,444
religious
backgrounds and cultures

1217
00:58:50,569 --> 00:58:53,697
say you don't have mass
hallucinations.

1218
00:59:01,121 --> 00:59:02,915
The moment
the truck struck me,

1219
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,001
I was standing
at the gates of Heaven.

1220
00:59:11,799 --> 00:59:14,593
And it was magnificent.

1221
00:59:14,718 --> 00:59:17,054
It was like the
inside of an oyster.

1222
00:59:17,179 --> 00:59:20,766
It was pearl and dazzling,

1223
00:59:21,016 --> 00:59:24,019
almost like it was living.

1224
00:59:25,521 --> 00:59:27,815
It just looked that way
because of the light

1225
00:59:27,940 --> 00:59:30,901
reflecting off the gate.

1226
00:59:32,027 --> 00:59:33,612
Heaven is light.

1227
00:59:33,737 --> 00:59:34,655
God is light.

1228
00:59:34,780 --> 00:59:36,824
It's... it's astounding.

1229
00:59:39,076 --> 00:59:40,494
One of the most
difficult things

1230
00:59:40,619 --> 00:59:42,204
about talking about heaven

1231
00:59:42,329 --> 00:59:44,748
is that you have to do it
with earthly words,

1232
00:59:44,873 --> 00:59:48,502
and there are no earthly
words that do it justice.

1233
00:59:55,676 --> 00:59:58,470
I did think
for a moment, okay, I died.

1234
00:59:58,595 --> 01:00:00,180
Okay, I'm gone.

1235
01:00:00,306 --> 01:00:01,307
And was I sad?

1236
01:00:01,432 --> 01:00:03,267
No, not at all.

1237
01:00:06,312 --> 01:00:06,979
I wasn't worried

1238
01:00:07,104 --> 01:00:08,480
about my mom or dad

1239
01:00:08,605 --> 01:00:11,025
or what they would think
or my--, nothing.

1240
01:00:11,150 --> 01:00:13,986
I was only looking forward
to where I was going

1241
01:00:14,111 --> 01:00:17,573
and it was nothing but joy
and peace, love and unity.

1242
01:00:25,414 --> 01:00:28,417
I was surrounded by people
I knew and loved in life.

1243
01:00:30,044 --> 01:00:32,880
The first person
I saw was my grandfather.

1244
01:00:33,005 --> 01:00:35,174
I was very close
to my grandfather.

1245
01:00:35,299 --> 01:00:38,010
The last time I saw him,
he was in a casket.

1246
01:00:38,135 --> 01:00:40,971
At his funeral, he did
not look good.

1247
01:00:41,096 --> 01:00:44,058
Now I'm standing
at the gates of Heaven,

1248
01:00:44,183 --> 01:00:46,101
and there he is
to greet me.

1249
01:00:46,226 --> 01:00:47,519
And he looked really good.

1250
01:00:47,644 --> 01:00:48,979
He extended his hands to me

1251
01:00:49,104 --> 01:00:51,106
and spoke a language
I've never heard before,

1252
01:00:51,231 --> 01:00:55,402
but fully understood and
said, Welcome home, Donnie.

1253
01:01:01,867 --> 01:01:05,788
I recognized this
group of people.

1254
01:01:05,954 --> 01:01:11,543
These people are looking
at me with such love.

1255
01:01:14,546 --> 01:01:18,217
They're all seemingly
at the prime of their life.

1256
01:01:18,592 --> 01:01:19,593
And these people

1257
01:01:19,718 --> 01:01:23,305
were greeting me
and they were so delighted

1258
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,683
that I was there,

1259
01:01:27,309 --> 01:01:30,604
And I knew that they
were there for me,

1260
01:01:30,729 --> 01:01:34,108
to welcome me,
to greet me, to to love me,

1261
01:01:34,233 --> 01:01:36,235
to make me feel known.

1262
01:01:36,902 --> 01:01:39,405
And I knew that
they had known loved me

1263
01:01:39,530 --> 01:01:42,449
as long as I've existed.

1264
01:01:46,203 --> 01:01:48,622
The music was phenomenal.

1265
01:01:48,747 --> 01:01:51,750
Thousands of songs at the
same time without chaos,

1266
01:01:52,418 --> 01:01:53,752
all manner of music,

1267
01:01:54,086 --> 01:01:55,421
instrumental,

1268
01:01:55,838 --> 01:01:57,589
choruses,

1269
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,137
Astoundingly,
they just invade you.

1270
01:02:03,262 --> 01:02:06,223
I mean, you're permeated
by the music.

1271
01:02:11,228 --> 01:02:14,940
My senses were
incredibly vivid,

1272
01:02:15,065 --> 01:02:18,819
you know, touch and taste
and feel and hearing.

1273
01:02:18,944 --> 01:02:20,070
It was just all.

1274
01:02:20,195 --> 01:02:21,447
It's just the most
real thing

1275
01:02:21,572 --> 01:02:22,948
that's ever happened to me.

1276
01:02:25,451 --> 01:02:28,871
After I greeted
the people, they parted

1277
01:02:28,996 --> 01:02:31,999
and I could see
through the gate.

1278
01:02:32,833 --> 01:02:34,793
There was
a long boulevard that

1279
01:02:34,918 --> 01:02:36,753
really bisects the city

1280
01:02:36,879 --> 01:02:39,882
and it appears
to be constructed of gold.

1281
01:02:40,424 --> 01:02:43,427
So many of the things
that we experience here

1282
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,472
are there,
but much infinitely

1283
01:02:46,597 --> 01:02:49,516
more glorious and perfect.

1284
01:02:49,683 --> 01:02:52,102
I wanted to climb that hill

1285
01:02:52,227 --> 01:02:54,354
and fall at the
feet of the great

1286
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,523
God of all
creation and say,

1287
01:02:56,648 --> 01:02:59,359
"Thank you for
letting me come."

1288
01:02:59,485 --> 01:03:00,777
That was my objective.

1289
01:03:07,242 --> 01:03:09,870
Not every near-death
experience is a good one.

1290
01:03:09,995 --> 01:03:13,332
23% of those who come
forward talking about them

1291
01:03:13,957 --> 01:03:16,960
talk about how they had
hellish experiences.

1292
01:03:26,803 --> 01:03:27,596
At that time,

1293
01:03:27,721 --> 01:03:30,641
I, I felt really empty.

1294
01:03:30,766 --> 01:03:33,018
It just seemed like
the best thing to do

1295
01:03:33,143 --> 01:03:35,020
was just to die
at that point.

1296
01:03:35,145 --> 01:03:37,314
If I die,
then it's game over.

1297
01:03:37,439 --> 01:03:39,858
And if I die, then the pain
and the suffering,

1298
01:03:39,983 --> 01:03:41,360
the depression,

1299
01:03:41,485 --> 01:03:43,904
the darkness,
all this is going to stop.

1300
01:03:44,029 --> 01:03:46,114
Well,
if I do enough cocaine,

1301
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:47,866
then maybe my heart
will stop beating

1302
01:03:47,991 --> 01:03:50,244
because it feels like it's
racing out of my chest.

1303
01:03:57,668 --> 01:03:58,877
And I didn't see
a bright light.

1304
01:03:59,002 --> 01:03:59,920
I saw a black tunnel.

1305
01:04:00,045 --> 01:04:01,630
It felt like somebody
grabbed me and dropped me

1306
01:04:01,755 --> 01:04:04,174
in this outer darkness.

1307
01:04:04,299 --> 01:04:06,885
As I started racing down
this tunnel,

1308
01:04:07,010 --> 01:04:08,387
it seemed like infinity.

1309
01:04:08,512 --> 01:04:11,306
It was like
a bottomless pit.

1310
01:04:11,431 --> 01:04:13,934
I don't know how,
but I was no longer high.

1311
01:04:14,059 --> 01:04:17,062
All my senses
were at 1,000.

1312
01:04:18,647 --> 01:04:20,399
I knew that I had died,

1313
01:04:20,524 --> 01:04:22,025
and it was one of
the scariest moments

1314
01:04:22,150 --> 01:04:24,111
in my entire life.

1315
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,281
And I'm racing
down this tunnel

1316
01:04:27,406 --> 01:04:28,949
that seems like forever,

1317
01:04:29,074 --> 01:04:31,577
like a thousand miles an hour

1318
01:04:31,702 --> 01:04:33,620
as I'm just freefalling.

1319
01:04:36,081 --> 01:04:38,292
If I'm going to hell,
there's got to be a mistake

1320
01:04:38,417 --> 01:04:40,377
because I never
killed anybody.

1321
01:04:40,502 --> 01:04:41,461
I didn't rob a bank.

1322
01:04:41,587 --> 01:04:43,505
I mean, I'm a good person.

1323
01:04:43,630 --> 01:04:44,631
I'm not a bad guy.

1324
01:04:44,756 --> 01:04:46,967
The only person I hurt
was myself.

1325
01:04:47,092 --> 01:04:50,178
When I began to justify
how good I was,

1326
01:04:50,804 --> 01:04:52,431
it went faster

1327
01:04:52,556 --> 01:04:54,558
like 2,000 miles an hour.

1328
01:04:56,226 --> 01:04:58,103
It speeded up the process.

1329
01:04:58,228 --> 01:05:01,189
Like, now you're
really going to Hell.

1330
01:05:02,357 --> 01:05:04,651
I remember at that point
I cried out

1331
01:05:04,776 --> 01:05:07,738
with all desperation.

1332
01:05:09,531 --> 01:05:13,201
I said, "God, you need to
come help me right now.

1333
01:05:14,036 --> 01:05:17,039
because I need you.

1334
01:05:17,873 --> 01:05:20,876
If you really exist,
I need your help.

1335
01:05:21,418 --> 01:05:22,669
So you got to come help me.

1336
01:05:22,794 --> 01:05:25,714
Please, God,
I need your help."

1337
01:05:30,594 --> 01:05:31,345
In the bed

1338
01:05:31,470 --> 01:05:34,389
that I had been in
was this big slab of meat.

1339
01:05:34,598 --> 01:05:36,642
And when I looked
at the face,

1340
01:05:36,767 --> 01:05:39,811
it bore an amazing
resemblance to me.

1341
01:05:41,730 --> 01:05:44,483
And I could not understand

1342
01:05:44,608 --> 01:05:47,027
how that could resemble me.

1343
01:05:47,152 --> 01:05:49,237
But I was perfectly
well standing there,

1344
01:05:49,363 --> 01:05:52,282
perfectly alive,
looking at this,

1345
01:05:52,491 --> 01:05:53,408
hunk of meat.

1346
01:05:54,910 --> 01:05:56,745
The other thing
that bothered me was that

1347
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:59,831
my wife would not
respond to me.

1348
01:06:01,667 --> 01:06:03,585
Well, at first I started
talking in a nice voice,

1349
01:06:03,710 --> 01:06:05,253
and then I started yelling
at her, like, you know,

1350
01:06:06,588 --> 01:06:08,924
what the
hell is going on here?

1351
01:06:09,049 --> 01:06:11,093
Look at me. Talk to me.

1352
01:06:11,218 --> 01:06:12,135
You know,
I'm all better.

1353
01:06:12,260 --> 01:06:14,805
You know, what's that
thing in the bed?

1354
01:06:14,930 --> 01:06:16,473
How did it get there?

1355
01:06:18,100 --> 01:06:21,103
I was very upset,
very distressed.

1356
01:06:21,436 --> 01:06:24,272
And then I heard people out
in the hallway

1357
01:06:24,398 --> 01:06:27,275
outside the well-lit room

1358
01:06:28,068 --> 01:06:32,406
in the darkish-gray,
hazy hallway.

1359
01:06:40,372 --> 01:06:42,249
And there was
a group of people standing

1360
01:06:42,374 --> 01:06:45,961
outside the light
of the room in the hallway.

1361
01:06:46,628 --> 01:06:47,504
I said, "I'm sick.

1362
01:06:47,629 --> 01:06:49,172
I need a doctor."

1363
01:06:50,674 --> 01:06:53,260
And they said, "We know.

1364
01:06:53,385 --> 01:06:54,928
We know all about you.

1365
01:06:55,053 --> 01:06:56,346
It's time for you to
come with us."

1366
01:06:56,471 --> 01:06:59,015
So I thought that they were

1367
01:06:59,141 --> 01:07:02,102
hospital personnel
to take me to a doctor.

1368
01:07:05,355 --> 01:07:06,606
When I left the room

1369
01:07:06,732 --> 01:07:07,983
and went into the hall,

1370
01:07:09,401 --> 01:07:11,153
I can't explain how I knew,

1371
01:07:11,278 --> 01:07:13,155
I couldn't go back
into the room.

1372
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:14,531
The door didn't close,

1373
01:07:14,656 --> 01:07:16,199
but I knew that
it was impossible

1374
01:07:16,324 --> 01:07:18,952
for me to go back
into the light of the room.

1375
01:07:19,077 --> 01:07:21,288
So I hesitated and
the people became very...

1376
01:07:21,413 --> 01:07:23,331
Hurry up,
Let's go. Let's go.

1377
01:07:23,457 --> 01:07:25,167
We can't wait anymore.
You know.

1378
01:07:25,292 --> 01:07:27,919
We've been here a long time
waiting for you.

1379
01:07:28,044 --> 01:07:28,795
Hurry up.

1380
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,132
So I gave in
and went with them

1381
01:07:32,257 --> 01:07:34,426
and they immediately
surrounded me

1382
01:07:34,551 --> 01:07:37,137
and moved me forward
into that greyness.

1383
01:07:48,356 --> 01:07:52,527
As we moved along,
I could not perceive walls,

1384
01:07:52,861 --> 01:07:56,281
ceiling, any
feature at all.

1385
01:07:56,907 --> 01:07:58,700
And we walked
and walked and walked.

1386
01:07:58,825 --> 01:08:00,494
And after a while
I was like, okay,

1387
01:08:00,619 --> 01:08:02,662
this hospital's
not that big, you know?

1388
01:08:02,788 --> 01:08:05,707
I mean, we walked miles
now, and it's like,

1389
01:08:05,916 --> 01:08:07,584
where's the stairs?

1390
01:08:07,709 --> 01:08:08,919
You know,
where's the up and down?

1391
01:08:09,044 --> 01:08:11,087
Where's the walls?
And there was nothing.

1392
01:08:11,213 --> 01:08:12,714
We just walked and walked.

1393
01:08:15,550 --> 01:08:16,718
So I was asking the people

1394
01:08:16,843 --> 01:08:18,720
around me like,
this isn't the hospital,

1395
01:08:18,845 --> 01:08:21,223
This isn't right, you know,
where are we?

1396
01:08:21,348 --> 01:08:22,057
Stuff like that, and,

1397
01:08:22,182 --> 01:08:25,519
their response
was, "Shut up, be quiet.

1398
01:08:25,811 --> 01:08:26,478
Keep moving.

1399
01:08:26,603 --> 01:08:28,188
Move, move, move!"

1400
01:08:30,607 --> 01:08:33,151
They'd say,
"You're going to find out.

1401
01:08:33,276 --> 01:08:35,362
You'll find out.

1402
01:08:35,487 --> 01:08:38,448
You're going to get there."

1403
01:08:39,699 --> 01:08:41,451
There was a lot of
people around us,

1404
01:08:41,576 --> 01:08:42,911
possibly hundreds,

1405
01:08:43,036 --> 01:08:44,579
I don't know.
They were

1406
01:08:44,704 --> 01:08:47,749
being very vulgar, very
threatening, very scary.

1407
01:08:48,875 --> 01:08:50,710
I'm in abject darkness.

1408
01:08:50,836 --> 01:08:53,213
I have absolutely no
idea which way

1409
01:08:53,338 --> 01:08:55,590
is forward, backward.
I mean,

1410
01:08:55,715 --> 01:08:57,759
all I knew was I wanted to
get away from them.

1411
01:09:00,554 --> 01:09:03,223
They said, "No,
you've got further to go."

1412
01:09:03,348 --> 01:09:06,268
And they started to push
and shove me.

1413
01:09:07,102 --> 01:09:09,938
And I fought back.

1414
01:09:10,063 --> 01:09:13,066
They began by punching,
shoving, kicking.

1415
01:09:14,150 --> 01:09:17,654
And then they started
biting, scratching

1416
01:09:18,864 --> 01:09:21,741
and tearing me apart,
literally.

1417
01:09:21,867 --> 01:09:24,077
disemboweling me,
gouging my eyes.

1418
01:09:24,202 --> 01:09:25,745
And it was all accompanied

1419
01:09:25,871 --> 01:09:27,539
with a great deal
of laughter and joy.

1420
01:09:32,627 --> 01:09:35,005
I thought about

1421
01:09:35,130 --> 01:09:36,798
my whole life
and everything seemed like

1422
01:09:36,923 --> 01:09:38,800
what was the point.

1423
01:09:38,925 --> 01:09:40,760
And I realized
that my relationships

1424
01:09:40,886 --> 01:09:43,805
with my mother
and father were a disaster.

1425
01:09:44,139 --> 01:09:47,142
My relationship with
my sisters wasn't good.

1426
01:09:47,350 --> 01:09:50,604
My relationship with
my wife was very troubled.

1427
01:09:52,814 --> 01:09:55,233
I was not proud or pleased

1428
01:09:55,358 --> 01:09:57,569
with my relationship
with my two children.

1429
01:09:59,863 --> 01:10:01,781
I sank into

1430
01:10:01,907 --> 01:10:05,619
a pit of despair
and hopelessness

1431
01:10:05,744 --> 01:10:07,996
that I can't begin
to describe.

1432
01:10:12,375 --> 01:10:17,005
My mind offered up a memory
of myself as a little boy

1433
01:10:17,130 --> 01:10:20,091
going to a Sunday school
singing "Jesus Loves Me"

1434
01:10:20,967 --> 01:10:22,260
When I was a little boy

1435
01:10:22,385 --> 01:10:24,471
and I was afraid,
like having nightmares

1436
01:10:24,596 --> 01:10:27,641
at night or whatever,
I would pray to Him and

1437
01:10:28,183 --> 01:10:30,143
He would chase the
lions and tigers.

1438
01:10:30,268 --> 01:10:32,270
and bears away.

1439
01:10:32,395 --> 01:10:34,940
And as a child,
it was, like, mostly

1440
01:10:35,065 --> 01:10:36,983
in the image
of like a superhero.

1441
01:10:37,108 --> 01:10:39,152
Jesus was like a superhero.

1442
01:10:39,277 --> 01:10:40,153
And so...

1443
01:10:40,487 --> 01:10:41,196
that's it.

1444
01:10:41,529 --> 01:10:43,031
That was all I knew.

1445
01:10:43,156 --> 01:10:46,701
So I called out to him
in complete desperation,

1446
01:10:47,953 --> 01:10:51,039
A tiny little star
appeared in the sky,

1447
01:10:52,499 --> 01:10:54,584
and very rapidly
it got brighter

1448
01:10:54,709 --> 01:10:57,629
and brighter and brighter.

1449
01:10:58,254 --> 01:11:00,048
I started moving

1450
01:11:00,173 --> 01:11:03,385
helplessly
without direction.

1451
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:05,345
I had nothing to do
with this.

1452
01:11:05,470 --> 01:11:07,305
I started moving
out of the room.

1453
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:09,641
I next realized that

1454
01:11:09,766 --> 01:11:12,894
I have left the hospital
and now I'm traveling

1455
01:11:13,603 --> 01:11:16,606
almost like a rocket ship,
just moving

1456
01:11:16,856 --> 01:11:18,274
out of this atmosphere.

1457
01:11:20,568 --> 01:11:23,571
As if in deep space.

1458
01:11:24,948 --> 01:11:28,326
I realized we were
not on the ground anymore.

1459
01:11:28,451 --> 01:11:31,413
We were moving upward,
straight upwards.

1460
01:11:33,373 --> 01:11:35,458
So I've got my face
buried in His chest

1461
01:11:35,583 --> 01:11:36,418
hanging on to Him.

1462
01:11:36,543 --> 01:11:39,045
I'm like, I don't want to
let me go because I,

1463
01:11:39,170 --> 01:11:40,547
I'm afraid if I let go,

1464
01:11:40,672 --> 01:11:42,507
or if he lets go, I'm
going to fall back

1465
01:11:42,632 --> 01:11:44,384
into that horrible
place again.

1466
01:11:44,509 --> 01:11:47,303
And there was a beam
of light that was lighting

1467
01:11:47,429 --> 01:11:50,348
the pathway
of where I was going.

1468
01:11:52,809 --> 01:11:54,477
My whole life
flashed in front of me

1469
01:11:54,602 --> 01:11:56,104
as big as the sky,

1470
01:11:56,980 --> 01:11:58,773
Tiny spheres
of light.

1471
01:11:59,441 --> 01:12:02,402
They weren't planets,
they weren't stars.

1472
01:12:02,527 --> 01:12:05,530
These were beings
going to Earth

1473
01:12:05,947 --> 01:12:07,991
Where we were going
is what I first thought

1474
01:12:08,116 --> 01:12:11,536
was a galaxy.
A huge world of light.

1475
01:12:11,911 --> 01:12:13,788
The light that
I'm looking at,

1476
01:12:13,913 --> 01:12:16,958
is coming from none
other than God Himself.

1477
01:12:20,336 --> 01:12:23,339
Inside the light was life,

1478
01:12:24,924 --> 01:12:27,927
And inside
that light was love.

1479
01:12:28,053 --> 01:12:31,723
And my body is
still on Earth.

1480
01:12:33,308 --> 01:12:36,770
My brain and eyeballs
are back there.

1481
01:12:37,937 --> 01:12:39,773
But, I'm sensing
and discerning

1482
01:12:39,898 --> 01:12:42,817
all of these things.

1483
01:12:43,651 --> 01:12:44,986
When you leave this earth

1484
01:12:45,111 --> 01:12:47,280
and you step into
the eternity,

1485
01:12:47,405 --> 01:12:50,408
everything is
crystal clear.

1486
01:12:57,999 --> 01:13:00,085
I knew I was coming
to this holy area

1487
01:13:00,210 --> 01:13:01,669
and obviously

1488
01:13:01,795 --> 01:13:04,714
it took another second
to connect the dots.

1489
01:13:04,839 --> 01:13:06,257
This is Heaven.

1490
01:13:11,679 --> 01:13:12,597
And he spoke to me

1491
01:13:12,722 --> 01:13:15,642
for the first time
in his voice,

1492
01:13:15,767 --> 01:13:17,894
but it was telepathic
but it wasn't

1493
01:13:18,019 --> 01:13:19,062
a thought of mine.

1494
01:13:19,187 --> 01:13:21,314
It was his voice
in my head.

1495
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:22,982
And then he said,
I've got some people

1496
01:13:23,108 --> 01:13:24,359
that I want you to meet.

1497
01:13:24,484 --> 01:13:26,152
They've recorded your life

1498
01:13:26,277 --> 01:13:29,239
and they want
show you your life.

1499
01:13:29,781 --> 01:13:31,658
So they proceeded to

1500
01:13:31,783 --> 01:13:33,952
show me my life
in chronological order.

1501
01:13:38,748 --> 01:13:41,751
What I saw, to
summarize it, was

1502
01:13:42,877 --> 01:13:44,712
happy youth

1503
01:13:44,838 --> 01:13:45,755
pretty much

1504
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,217
going to adolescence,
everything going sour,

1505
01:13:50,385 --> 01:13:51,636
particularly
with my relationship

1506
01:13:51,761 --> 01:13:52,470
with my father.

1507
01:13:52,595 --> 01:13:56,808
Because of my father's
cruelty to me,

1508
01:13:58,017 --> 01:13:59,686
I was cruel back.

1509
01:14:01,563 --> 01:14:04,482
My father was physically
and emotionally abusive

1510
01:14:04,607 --> 01:14:07,861
every day to my mother,
my sisters and to me.

1511
01:14:09,904 --> 01:14:11,114
I mean, it never stopped.

1512
01:14:13,408 --> 01:14:14,951
The only way
that I could deal with it

1513
01:14:15,076 --> 01:14:17,954
was to try
and not feel anything.

1514
01:14:18,329 --> 01:14:20,165
And all he wanted for me

1515
01:14:20,290 --> 01:14:23,418
was to be
a little duplicate of him,

1516
01:14:23,751 --> 01:14:26,629
you know,
just be subservient to him.

1517
01:14:26,754 --> 01:14:29,382
You know,
being being disobedient

1518
01:14:29,507 --> 01:14:31,843
had immediate
physical consequences

1519
01:14:31,968 --> 01:14:34,929
of being kicked
or punched or hit.

1520
01:14:36,181 --> 01:14:38,933
And I saw myself striving

1521
01:14:39,058 --> 01:14:42,353
to become emotionless
and feeling-less,

1522
01:14:43,229 --> 01:14:45,273
which was a way for
me to protect myself

1523
01:14:45,398 --> 01:14:46,357
from being hurt.

1524
01:14:48,359 --> 01:14:51,196
As I became
more manipulative

1525
01:14:51,321 --> 01:14:53,198
and successful,

1526
01:14:53,323 --> 01:14:56,451
the more the angels
and Jesus expressed

1527
01:14:56,576 --> 01:14:57,785
their disappointment

1528
01:14:57,911 --> 01:15:00,914
and sadness
with me and my life.

1529
01:15:02,582 --> 01:15:04,918
And it really hurt
to disappoint them

1530
01:15:05,043 --> 01:15:05,877
because I here

1531
01:15:06,002 --> 01:15:08,963
I have these newfound
friends, my big rescuer,

1532
01:15:09,964 --> 01:15:12,967
you know, best friend
I ever had.

1533
01:15:14,802 --> 01:15:16,554
And I'm-- and I'm
looking at my life

1534
01:15:16,679 --> 01:15:19,599
and I'm a big, huge
disappointment.

1535
01:15:22,602 --> 01:15:25,772
and you should put me back.

1536
01:15:26,898 --> 01:15:29,400
I don't belong here.

1537
01:15:33,780 --> 01:15:34,906
You know,
you've made a mistake.

1538
01:15:35,031 --> 01:15:35,990
I don't belong here.

1539
01:15:36,115 --> 01:15:38,076
And he said,
"We don't make mistakes.

1540
01:15:38,201 --> 01:15:41,079
You do belong here."

1541
01:15:45,917 --> 01:15:46,918
At this point.

1542
01:15:47,043 --> 01:15:48,795
I had had

1543
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:50,880
a number of operations and

1544
01:15:51,005 --> 01:15:55,385
I was finally able
to be upright instead of

1545
01:15:55,969 --> 01:15:56,928
wheelchair bound.

1546
01:15:58,471 --> 01:16:00,139
But I,

1547
01:16:00,265 --> 01:16:03,268
wasn't
able to walk very well.

1548
01:16:05,561 --> 01:16:08,564
When I was
sent back to my body,

1549
01:16:09,565 --> 01:16:12,735
I knew that
sharing my experiences

1550
01:16:12,860 --> 01:16:15,780
with other people
was part of the deal.

1551
01:16:16,656 --> 01:16:20,618
I knew that part of that
was writing about them.

1552
01:16:21,536 --> 01:16:23,913
And so I woke up

1553
01:16:24,038 --> 01:16:27,750
and I spent the
next week or so

1554
01:16:28,376 --> 01:16:31,796
getting up at three
or four in the morning and

1555
01:16:32,422 --> 01:16:35,425
writing for a few hours
before the morning routine.

1556
01:16:36,634 --> 01:16:40,555
And so I, you know,
made my final revisions.

1557
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:43,891
And when I hit
the save button,

1558
01:16:44,142 --> 01:16:47,812
I took my youngest son, who
was still living at home

1559
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:51,482
into town to get ice cream
so we could celebrate.

1560
01:16:52,150 --> 01:16:55,153
And so as we were
driving into town

1561
01:16:56,487 --> 01:17:00,158
to celebrate,
I called my older boys

1562
01:17:00,992 --> 01:17:03,995
because my oldest son
and his brother

1563
01:17:04,370 --> 01:17:06,956
were at the time
living in Maine.

1564
01:17:07,081 --> 01:17:08,207
They were ski training.

1565
01:17:10,335 --> 01:17:11,753
And I called them

1566
01:17:11,878 --> 01:17:14,839
to share this great news.

1567
01:17:15,965 --> 01:17:18,593
And the coach
answered the phone

1568
01:17:18,718 --> 01:17:22,513
and told me that Willie
had just been hit

1569
01:17:22,638 --> 01:17:24,599
by a car and killed.

1570
01:17:32,648 --> 01:17:33,858
and um,

1571
01:17:40,656 --> 01:17:41,991
I mean,

1572
01:17:43,368 --> 01:17:45,578
I reacted

1573
01:17:45,703 --> 01:17:48,664
like any mother would.

1574
01:17:57,006 --> 01:18:00,718
The depth of my spiritual
knowledge,

1575
01:18:02,053 --> 01:18:05,223
does not protect me
from grief.

1576
01:18:06,474 --> 01:18:09,477
It doesn't protect me from

1577
01:18:09,602 --> 01:18:12,563
sorrow or any of
those things.

1578
01:18:14,273 --> 01:18:15,400
The depth of pain,

1579
01:18:15,525 --> 01:18:18,486
of losing a child is,

1580
01:18:19,195 --> 01:18:21,989
I don't think, a

1581
01:18:22,115 --> 01:18:24,200
pain that can be
replicated by

1582
01:18:24,325 --> 01:18:27,245
any other human
experience.

1583
01:18:28,788 --> 01:18:31,791
I mean, I was devastated

1584
01:18:48,641 --> 01:18:51,644
And it all stopped

1585
01:18:52,770 --> 01:18:55,773
just as quickly I arrived.

1586
01:19:02,071 --> 01:19:04,824
That accident happened
at 11:45 in the morning.

1587
01:19:04,949 --> 01:19:07,952
I arrived at Hermann
Memorial Hospital

1588
01:19:08,202 --> 01:19:11,205
at like 6:15 that night.

1589
01:19:11,622 --> 01:19:14,500
So they went and got my
wife out of her classroom,

1590
01:19:14,625 --> 01:19:15,460
brought it down
to the office

1591
01:19:15,585 --> 01:19:17,086
and told her the news.

1592
01:19:17,753 --> 01:19:20,214
And I walked down the
hall and into the office,

1593
01:19:20,339 --> 01:19:21,883
and our assistant principal

1594
01:19:22,008 --> 01:19:23,426
came out
from around her desk

1595
01:19:23,551 --> 01:19:25,136
and just wrapped me
in this hug.

1596
01:19:25,261 --> 01:19:28,139
And she says, "Don's
been in an accident."

1597
01:19:28,264 --> 01:19:30,266
And that's all that
we knew.

1598
01:19:30,391 --> 01:19:33,394
I was taken into surgery
that evening

1599
01:19:33,644 --> 01:19:36,647
and was in surgery
for 12 hours.

1600
01:19:38,441 --> 01:19:39,942
The next day

1601
01:19:40,067 --> 01:19:42,987
was when I realized
I was in the recovery room.

1602
01:19:43,696 --> 01:19:46,699
The emergency room
had called

1603
01:19:46,824 --> 01:19:49,076
and the nurse said,
he can't hold the phone,

1604
01:19:49,202 --> 01:19:50,995
but I'm going to put it
next to his ear

1605
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:52,747
so he can hear you.

1606
01:19:53,998 --> 01:19:55,041
And I started with
the questions,

1607
01:19:55,166 --> 01:19:57,001
"Are you okay?
What happened?

1608
01:19:57,126 --> 01:19:58,169
Do I need to
come out there?"

1609
01:19:58,294 --> 01:20:01,172
just, you know, rambling
sort of things.

1610
01:20:01,297 --> 01:20:02,882
And all I could hear
him say was,

1611
01:20:03,007 --> 01:20:04,759
"I just want to go home.

1612
01:20:04,884 --> 01:20:06,010
I just want to go home."

1613
01:20:08,429 --> 01:20:09,639
Later, I understood

1614
01:20:09,764 --> 01:20:12,683
that he meant his
Heavenly home.

1615
01:20:13,684 --> 01:20:14,477
Had I had a choice,

1616
01:20:14,602 --> 01:20:16,187
I would not have
come back here.

1617
01:20:16,312 --> 01:20:19,357
I mean, I've had 30
wonderful years here,

1618
01:20:19,982 --> 01:20:21,776
but I would still rather
be there.

1619
01:20:21,901 --> 01:20:23,027
I know what happens next,

1620
01:20:23,152 --> 01:20:25,404
and it's it's always
better there

1621
01:20:25,530 --> 01:20:26,781
than it will ever be here.

1622
01:20:26,906 --> 01:20:29,867
So I didn't really want to
come back, but

1623
01:20:30,284 --> 01:20:32,286
I didn't get a choice.

1624
01:20:34,247 --> 01:20:36,499
He went into a deep
depression.

1625
01:20:36,624 --> 01:20:40,545
And I would go in, and
he would just lay there.

1626
01:20:40,836 --> 01:20:44,090
He wouldn't talk to me.
He wouldn't acknowledge me.

1627
01:20:44,882 --> 01:20:46,133
I would bring papers
to grade.

1628
01:20:46,259 --> 01:20:47,927
I would sit over in the
corner and grade

1629
01:20:48,052 --> 01:20:50,137
and stay there
till about 11:00

1630
01:20:50,263 --> 01:20:52,056
almost every night.

1631
01:20:52,807 --> 01:20:54,141
And then I'd tell him
goodnight,

1632
01:20:54,267 --> 01:20:55,518
and I'd leave.

1633
01:20:59,397 --> 01:21:02,400
And it was hurtful, because
I thought, you're alive.

1634
01:21:02,817 --> 01:21:04,402
You know, you're alive.
You're back with us.

1635
01:21:04,527 --> 01:21:05,486
Don't you love us enough to

1636
01:21:05,611 --> 01:21:06,904
be glad to be back with us?

1637
01:21:09,115 --> 01:21:12,201
And to me, that
was harder to deal with.

1638
01:21:12,326 --> 01:21:14,203
The depression was harder
to deal with

1639
01:21:14,328 --> 01:21:17,331
than the physical injuries,
which were massive.

1640
01:21:17,873 --> 01:21:20,042
And I remember one night,

1641
01:21:20,167 --> 01:21:21,627
I thought, you know what?

1642
01:21:21,752 --> 01:21:23,212
I'm going to go home
early tonight,

1643
01:21:23,337 --> 01:21:25,214
and I'm going to take
a warm shower,

1644
01:21:25,339 --> 01:21:26,757
and I'm going to
crawl in the bed,

1645
01:21:26,882 --> 01:21:28,509
and get a good
night's sleep.

1646
01:21:28,634 --> 01:21:31,596
So I gathered up
all my stuff,

1647
01:21:31,721 --> 01:21:33,097
and I just said,

1648
01:21:33,222 --> 01:21:35,308
well, I guess I'll
see you tomorrow.

1649
01:21:40,605 --> 01:21:43,399
No response.

1650
01:21:43,524 --> 01:21:44,692
That night, something

1651
01:21:44,817 --> 01:21:47,695
clicked inside of me,
and I had had it.

1652
01:21:47,903 --> 01:21:50,865
And I dropped
that book bag,

1653
01:21:50,990 --> 01:21:53,576
and I stomped my way over
to the side of the bed,

1654
01:21:53,701 --> 01:21:54,952
and I let him have it.

1655
01:21:55,077 --> 01:21:56,787
What is wrong with you?

1656
01:21:56,912 --> 01:21:58,414
Why aren't
you glad to see us?

1657
01:21:58,539 --> 01:22:00,333
Why aren't you glad
that you're back with us?

1658
01:22:00,458 --> 01:22:02,251
It was just--
it just tumbled out.

1659
01:22:04,712 --> 01:22:05,921
And so I grabbed
my stuff up,

1660
01:22:06,047 --> 01:22:08,132
and I'm walking
out the door.

1661
01:22:08,257 --> 01:22:11,177
And there was a big mirror
next to his bed.

1662
01:22:12,845 --> 01:22:15,848
And I looked over there,
and he was crying.

1663
01:22:17,558 --> 01:22:19,143
Just tears.

1664
01:22:20,019 --> 01:22:23,689
So I walked myself back
over, and I kind of had to-

1665
01:22:23,898 --> 01:22:26,901
he had so many metal
things that we had kind of

1666
01:22:27,193 --> 01:22:30,196
got my way in and I just
wrapped him in my arms.

1667
01:22:30,738 --> 01:22:33,532
And I said, It's
going to be okay.

1668
01:22:33,658 --> 01:22:37,870
And I realized then that

1669
01:22:39,163 --> 01:22:42,124
I had to accept that
sometimes

1670
01:22:42,416 --> 01:22:45,378
he was going through things
I didn't understand.

1671
01:22:54,470 --> 01:22:56,597
Finally,

1672
01:22:56,722 --> 01:22:59,433
I got through it.

1673
01:22:59,558 --> 01:23:01,394
Jesus said,
"Do you have any questions?"

1674
01:23:01,519 --> 01:23:03,020
I said, "I've got a million
questions."

1675
01:23:03,145 --> 01:23:05,147
He said,
"What do you want to know?"

1676
01:23:05,272 --> 01:23:06,232
So I asked him
everything that

1677
01:23:06,357 --> 01:23:08,192
I could think of to know,

1678
01:23:08,317 --> 01:23:09,860
And if we went
through that,

1679
01:23:09,985 --> 01:23:11,278
it would
take us several years.

1680
01:23:12,738 --> 01:23:14,323
And He gave me a whole

1681
01:23:14,448 --> 01:23:16,951
new understanding
of everything.

1682
01:23:17,076 --> 01:23:18,452
I said, "Great,

1683
01:23:18,577 --> 01:23:20,287
Now that I understand,
I want to go to heaven."

1684
01:23:20,413 --> 01:23:21,831
He said, "um um,

1685
01:23:22,915 --> 01:23:24,709
You're not ready
for Heaven yet."

1686
01:23:26,419 --> 01:23:28,421
Finally, I said, "What do
you want me to do?"

1687
01:23:28,546 --> 01:23:29,672
"I want you to love
the person

1688
01:23:29,797 --> 01:23:30,548
that you're with."

1689
01:23:30,715 --> 01:23:32,258
I said, "Okay, yeah,
but then what

1690
01:23:32,383 --> 01:23:33,509
do you want me to do
after I do that?"

1691
01:23:33,634 --> 01:23:35,386
And He said, "No, that's
what I want you to do."

1692
01:23:35,511 --> 01:23:38,514
I said, you know, "What
good is that going to do?"

1693
01:23:38,639 --> 01:23:40,808
He said, "It's going to
change the world."

1694
01:23:41,642 --> 01:23:44,645
And I said, "That's
going to change the world?

1695
01:23:45,229 --> 01:23:47,314
I don't think so, no."

1696
01:23:47,440 --> 01:23:48,399
I said,
"You don't understand.

1697
01:23:48,524 --> 01:23:50,985
The world is like
a terrible, cruel place.

1698
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:52,653
Even if I love someone,
they're just going to go

1699
01:23:52,778 --> 01:23:55,531
get beat up somewhere else
and not going to--"

1700
01:23:55,656 --> 01:23:57,199
He said, "No, if you
love someone,

1701
01:23:57,324 --> 01:23:59,160
they'll take that love
out into the world

1702
01:23:59,285 --> 01:24:01,829
and maybe they'll love
somebody and it'll

1703
01:24:01,954 --> 01:24:02,913
grow and grow and grow."

1704
01:24:03,038 --> 01:24:04,540
I said, "It's not going to
work."

1705
01:24:04,665 --> 01:24:05,583
And He said,
"It's God's plan.

1706
01:24:05,708 --> 01:24:07,168
It's going to work."

1707
01:24:07,293 --> 01:24:09,712
Well, when he pulls out
the God's plan work,

1708
01:24:09,837 --> 01:24:10,504
you know,

1709
01:24:10,629 --> 01:24:11,964
I mean, like,
what can you say?

1710
01:24:15,676 --> 01:24:18,679
And so finally I conceded.

1711
01:24:18,804 --> 01:24:20,181
and I said, "Okay,
I'll go back."

1712
01:24:20,306 --> 01:24:21,557
And with that, bang,

1713
01:24:21,682 --> 01:24:23,601
I'm in the body,
I'm in the bed.

1714
01:24:29,273 --> 01:24:30,441
The nurse who'd
been in the room

1715
01:24:30,566 --> 01:24:31,901
comes in and says,

1716
01:24:32,026 --> 01:24:33,694
a doctor has arrived
at the hospital and

1717
01:24:33,819 --> 01:24:36,530
we're going to prepare you
for surgery.

1718
01:24:36,655 --> 01:24:38,199
When I awoke,

1719
01:24:38,324 --> 01:24:40,451
I knew that
what had happened to me

1720
01:24:40,576 --> 01:24:43,579
was the most
important thing in my life.

1721
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:48,751
Because now my life had
real meaning and purpose.

1722
01:24:50,169 --> 01:24:51,337
I was very, very weak.

1723
01:24:51,462 --> 01:24:54,381
I had been in
surgery for hours.

1724
01:24:55,925 --> 01:24:57,551
I'd spent
most of the morning

1725
01:24:57,676 --> 01:24:58,886
trying to think of how
I was going

1726
01:24:59,011 --> 01:25:01,972
to tell my wife
what had happened.

1727
01:25:02,765 --> 01:25:05,726
I said to her,
"It's all love."

1728
01:25:07,144 --> 01:25:09,021
She said, "I love you."

1729
01:25:09,146 --> 01:25:11,649
And I said, "I know you
love me, but it's all love."

1730
01:25:14,318 --> 01:25:17,321
She said, "What are you
talking about?"

1731
01:25:17,488 --> 01:25:20,491
And I said, "It's
an ocean of love.

1732
01:25:21,784 --> 01:25:24,745
And you have to just go in

1733
01:25:25,037 --> 01:25:28,040
into that ocean of love
and be a part of it."

1734
01:25:30,167 --> 01:25:33,170
And she said, "Okay, honey,

1735
01:25:35,047 --> 01:25:37,383
Try to get some rest."

1736
01:25:41,846 --> 01:25:42,972
Here I am. I'm I' giv--

1737
01:25:43,097 --> 01:25:46,016
I'm giving her
the abbreviated

1738
01:25:46,559 --> 01:25:49,562
wisdom of God.

1739
01:25:50,771 --> 01:25:52,731
And she's basically
telling me,

1740
01:25:52,857 --> 01:25:54,275
you know,
you're making no sense.

1741
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:55,860
It's crazy talk.

1742
01:25:58,654 --> 01:25:59,864
From that day forward,

1743
01:25:59,989 --> 01:26:03,534
I tried to tell people
about God, Heaven, Hell,

1744
01:26:04,910 --> 01:26:07,913
what I'd experienced,
and nobody,

1745
01:26:08,372 --> 01:26:11,375
nobody took me
seriously at all.

1746
01:26:11,709 --> 01:26:13,335
I was a zealot.

1747
01:26:13,460 --> 01:26:14,753
I was a complete zealot.

1748
01:26:14,879 --> 01:26:17,798
And it was

1749
01:26:18,382 --> 01:26:19,925
not good
for my relationship

1750
01:26:20,050 --> 01:26:22,970
with my kids
because the more that they

1751
01:26:23,929 --> 01:26:26,932
did not respect what
I was trying to tell them

1752
01:26:27,349 --> 01:26:30,144
and the more they told me
I was nuts and crazy

1753
01:26:30,269 --> 01:26:31,312
and stuff like that,
the more...

1754
01:26:32,646 --> 01:26:34,440
it totally alienated them

1755
01:26:34,565 --> 01:26:37,109
from the Bible,
from God, from me.

1756
01:26:37,234 --> 01:26:40,237
I mean, it was completely
counterproductive.

1757
01:26:41,238 --> 01:26:42,865
It was a disaster.

1758
01:26:50,372 --> 01:26:51,832
My wife left me.

1759
01:26:53,083 --> 01:26:56,462
She poisoned the
kids against me.

1760
01:26:58,964 --> 01:27:00,049
They've rejected me.

1761
01:27:00,174 --> 01:27:01,175
They don't want anything
to do with me.

1762
01:27:01,300 --> 01:27:04,261
They think I'm a crazy man.

1763
01:27:05,346 --> 01:27:08,349
It's all going to work out.

1764
01:27:12,686 --> 01:27:14,021
I know that God works
stuff out.

1765
01:27:14,146 --> 01:27:17,107
It just doesn't happen
on our time frame.

1766
01:27:17,566 --> 01:27:19,026
I mean, I'd like it now.

1767
01:27:19,151 --> 01:27:20,903
It's not happening
right now,

1768
01:27:21,028 --> 01:27:21,987
but it could happen
tomorrow.

1769
01:27:22,112 --> 01:27:24,907
It might take a long time.

1770
01:27:25,032 --> 01:27:26,450
I don't know,

1771
01:27:31,413 --> 01:27:32,498
A couple of years
down the road

1772
01:27:32,623 --> 01:27:33,248
when I found out

1773
01:27:33,374 --> 01:27:34,875
about the Heaven
experience,

1774
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:35,876
people have asked me,

1775
01:27:36,001 --> 01:27:38,545
"Aren't you mad that
he didn't tell you?"

1776
01:27:38,671 --> 01:27:40,297
Not really.

1777
01:27:40,422 --> 01:27:44,051
I was relieved
because now I understand.

1778
01:27:45,511 --> 01:27:46,679
You know,
if you've been to Heaven,

1779
01:27:46,804 --> 01:27:49,139
why would you want to be
back in the pain

1780
01:27:49,264 --> 01:27:50,641
that he was in?

1781
01:27:54,019 --> 01:27:56,438
I found myself
on a daily basis

1782
01:27:56,563 --> 01:27:59,316
with all these devices
attached to me

1783
01:27:59,441 --> 01:28:02,152
and unable to move at all.

1784
01:28:02,277 --> 01:28:03,988
I couldn't do a
single solitary thing

1785
01:28:04,113 --> 01:28:05,030
for myself at all.

1786
01:28:05,155 --> 01:28:07,616
38 and then 39 year old man

1787
01:28:07,741 --> 01:28:10,703
who was completely
helpless.

1788
01:28:16,500 --> 01:28:17,376
Why?

1789
01:28:18,127 --> 01:28:19,586
You let me see that,

1790
01:28:19,837 --> 01:28:21,463
And you brought
me back to this.

1791
01:28:22,131 --> 01:28:23,966
What is going on here?

1792
01:28:24,174 --> 01:28:27,177
What was the purpose
of this?

1793
01:28:35,853 --> 01:28:37,438
In my studies
of psychiatry,

1794
01:28:37,563 --> 01:28:39,732
I quickly realized
that practically

1795
01:28:39,857 --> 01:28:42,776
everybody
is chasing something.

1796
01:28:43,569 --> 01:28:46,780
Some chase fame
or money or power.

1797
01:28:47,698 --> 01:28:50,659
But what I quickly realized
in talking with people

1798
01:28:50,784 --> 01:28:52,369
who had near-death
experiences

1799
01:28:52,494 --> 01:28:54,621
is that whatever
they were chasing

1800
01:28:54,747 --> 01:28:57,708
before this experience,
convinced them that

1801
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:00,753
what life is all
about is learning to love.

1802
01:29:04,506 --> 01:29:07,468
And they all come
back all around the globe

1803
01:29:07,676 --> 01:29:11,138
with the same "aha".
That God is love.

1804
01:29:11,555 --> 01:29:13,474
And that how we treat and
love one another

1805
01:29:13,599 --> 01:29:15,976
is what matters
most to God.

1806
01:29:16,101 --> 01:29:16,810
You have people

1807
01:29:16,935 --> 01:29:19,396
who have these experiences
and come back

1808
01:29:19,521 --> 01:29:22,483
and their life
is radically changed.

1809
01:29:24,818 --> 01:29:25,652
When I came back

1810
01:29:25,778 --> 01:29:26,945
one of the things I knew
I wanted

1811
01:29:27,071 --> 01:29:29,990
to make friends
with my dad.

1812
01:29:30,991 --> 01:29:33,660
Not only was
I able to forgive my father

1813
01:29:33,786 --> 01:29:36,622
because I understood
that he was just messed up

1814
01:29:36,747 --> 01:29:39,166
because of his messed up
childhood.

1815
01:29:39,291 --> 01:29:40,626
All my father
really wanted to do

1816
01:29:40,751 --> 01:29:42,169
was to be loved but he

1817
01:29:42,294 --> 01:29:44,296
didn't know how to do that
in an appropriate way.

1818
01:29:44,421 --> 01:29:46,799
So he tried to be loved
in inappropriate ways.

1819
01:29:46,924 --> 01:29:49,843
He thought obedience
and discipline.

1820
01:29:50,636 --> 01:29:52,054
And my mother
and my sisters

1821
01:29:52,179 --> 01:29:53,222
were really angry with me

1822
01:29:53,347 --> 01:29:56,266
because they all told me
several times

1823
01:29:57,017 --> 01:29:58,936
"You and Dad
hated each other

1824
01:29:59,061 --> 01:30:01,980
and now you're
his best friend. Why?"

1825
01:30:03,732 --> 01:30:05,734
And I'd say, "Because
he's my dad."

1826
01:30:07,361 --> 01:30:09,154
Grace is passed along
and passed along

1827
01:30:09,279 --> 01:30:11,824
and passed along.
And it's powerful.

1828
01:30:11,949 --> 01:30:13,951
It's powerful because
people change lives

1829
01:30:14,076 --> 01:30:15,202
for the good.

1830
01:30:15,327 --> 01:30:19,289
They find hope, peace,
love, joy, contentment.

1831
01:30:19,414 --> 01:30:21,875
You know.

1832
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:23,710
And they also find

1833
01:30:23,836 --> 01:30:25,712
God and eternal life.

1834
01:30:33,137 --> 01:30:35,556
When I was being shown

1835
01:30:35,681 --> 01:30:37,558
the ripple effect
of my own actions

1836
01:30:37,683 --> 01:30:41,145
and my own words,
I was able to see this

1837
01:30:41,645 --> 01:30:45,816
20, 25, 35 times
removed from me.

1838
01:30:47,067 --> 01:30:48,443
That's

1839
01:30:48,569 --> 01:30:51,572
a big distance.

1840
01:30:51,822 --> 01:30:54,825
I understood all the hurts
and sorrows and dreams.

1841
01:30:55,159 --> 01:30:58,787
Everything that had brought
me to that point in time

1842
01:30:59,204 --> 01:31:02,207
when I may have hurt
someone else.

1843
01:31:02,332 --> 01:31:05,252
I also had this complete
understanding

1844
01:31:05,377 --> 01:31:06,712
of the back story

1845
01:31:06,837 --> 01:31:08,297
or the, you know,
the life story

1846
01:31:08,422 --> 01:31:10,465
of the other
people involved

1847
01:31:11,008 --> 01:31:13,427
and everything
that had brought them

1848
01:31:13,552 --> 01:31:16,388
to that moment in time
where they hurt me

1849
01:31:16,513 --> 01:31:17,764
or they
hurt someone I loved

1850
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:21,310
What we
each say and what we

1851
01:31:21,435 --> 01:31:24,479
each do and the choices
we make matter.

1852
01:31:25,647 --> 01:31:26,857
They really do.

1853
01:31:33,780 --> 01:31:36,783
When I talk
about my son's death,

1854
01:31:37,034 --> 01:31:38,827
I know that he went home,

1855
01:31:38,952 --> 01:31:41,747
and I'm sure that he didn't
want to come back either.

1856
01:31:41,872 --> 01:31:44,791
I'm sure he was reassured
that we would be fine.

1857
01:31:46,627 --> 01:31:48,503
When my time
on earth is done,

1858
01:31:48,629 --> 01:31:51,215
my oldest son
will be there to greet me,

1859
01:31:51,340 --> 01:31:54,343
my father, my stepfather.

1860
01:31:54,885 --> 01:31:55,719
I now know

1861
01:31:55,844 --> 01:31:58,388
other people who have died,
people who I love, people

1862
01:31:58,513 --> 01:31:59,848
who are important
in my life.

1863
01:31:59,973 --> 01:32:01,266
I don't see

1864
01:32:01,391 --> 01:32:04,436
us here on Earth, and God's
world is over here.

1865
01:32:04,895 --> 01:32:08,190
I think we exist
in the midst of it.

1866
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:13,320
I had the most

1867
01:32:13,445 --> 01:32:16,365
overwhelming sense
of being home,

1868
01:32:17,032 --> 01:32:18,742
of being where
I really belong,

1869
01:32:18,867 --> 01:32:21,411
where we
really belong, all of us.

1870
01:32:23,163 --> 01:32:25,832
It took about a few
months to recover fully.

1871
01:32:25,999 --> 01:32:28,168
I was still feeling
the pain,

1872
01:32:28,293 --> 01:32:31,296
feeling a little down,
depressed. Seeing Hell

1873
01:32:31,421 --> 01:32:35,550
and Heaven, changed me to
kind of prioritize others.

1874
01:32:36,343 --> 01:32:39,388
So at the age of 35,
I joined the Army Reserves.

1875
01:32:40,222 --> 01:32:42,266
I became a chaplain.

1876
01:32:42,391 --> 01:32:43,684
People just
came back from war

1877
01:32:43,809 --> 01:32:44,893
and you could tell
that they had

1878
01:32:45,018 --> 01:32:47,312
a very heartbroken
experience

1879
01:32:47,437 --> 01:32:50,148
or a psychological damage,
or the atrocities of war.

1880
01:32:50,274 --> 01:32:52,442
So we did a lot
of counseling.

1881
01:32:52,567 --> 01:32:54,111
We would pick up
phone calls at two,

1882
01:32:54,236 --> 01:32:55,237
three in the morning,

1883
01:32:55,362 --> 01:32:57,614
go with them to training,
hang out with them.

1884
01:32:57,739 --> 01:33:00,492
I would tell them that
there's hope.

1885
01:33:00,617 --> 01:33:03,578
I would tell them that
depression is not forever.

1886
01:33:05,330 --> 01:33:07,332
I believe
all over the world,

1887
01:33:07,457 --> 01:33:08,750
there are so many unique

1888
01:33:08,875 --> 01:33:10,836
NDEs, near-death
experiences,

1889
01:33:10,961 --> 01:33:11,962
and so many cultures

1890
01:33:12,087 --> 01:33:14,089
and backgrounds, American
or not,

1891
01:33:14,214 --> 01:33:16,842
all types of religions,
because

1892
01:33:16,967 --> 01:33:18,510
death is as real as life.

1893
01:33:19,594 --> 01:33:21,263
And I believe God
in his mercy,

1894
01:33:21,388 --> 01:33:22,764
no matter what
religious background

1895
01:33:22,889 --> 01:33:24,891
you are, allows you
to go through that

1896
01:33:25,017 --> 01:33:28,020
so that you can seek Him
in the process.

1897
01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:31,273
I don't know why
some people survive

1898
01:33:31,398 --> 01:33:33,191
and some people don't.

1899
01:33:33,317 --> 01:33:34,568
I wish.

1900
01:33:34,693 --> 01:33:36,486
I wouldn't have survived.

1901
01:33:36,611 --> 01:33:37,612
I've had some
very real things

1902
01:33:37,738 --> 01:33:38,572
happen to me on Earth.

1903
01:33:38,697 --> 01:33:40,866
The birth
of five grandchildren,

1904
01:33:40,991 --> 01:33:42,659
seeing my children
all graduate.

1905
01:33:42,784 --> 01:33:45,704
I mean, it's
been glorious in many ways,

1906
01:33:46,038 --> 01:33:47,539
but nothing compares
to Heaven.

1907
01:33:47,664 --> 01:33:49,333
It's just, that's
the most real thing.

1908
01:33:49,458 --> 01:33:51,376
That is my reality.

1909
01:33:51,501 --> 01:33:53,211
This is not.

1910
01:33:53,337 --> 01:33:54,004
What do we have

1911
01:33:54,129 --> 01:33:57,049
more in common
as humanity than death?

1912
01:33:57,299 --> 01:34:00,969
And to know that there is
hope beyond this life,

1913
01:34:01,762 --> 01:34:04,056
that there truly is beauty,

1914
01:34:04,181 --> 01:34:06,975
and relationship and love

1915
01:34:07,100 --> 01:34:09,770
and adventure ahead.

1916
01:34:09,895 --> 01:34:11,271
You know, that

1917
01:34:11,396 --> 01:34:14,149
all of our our history
and our memories,

1918
01:34:14,274 --> 01:34:16,985
they don't end and we don't
become something else.

1919
01:34:17,110 --> 01:34:18,028
It goes on.

1920
01:34:21,615 --> 01:34:23,241
People ought to
keep an open mind

1921
01:34:23,367 --> 01:34:25,077
to what's going on,

1922
01:34:25,202 --> 01:34:27,954
not accept everything
they hear

1923
01:34:28,789 --> 01:34:31,833
from people, from me,
from anybody.

1924
01:34:32,667 --> 01:34:35,670
Be skeptical,
ask questions,

1925
01:34:36,755 --> 01:34:38,507
think about it.

1926
01:34:38,632 --> 01:34:41,676
There are things that we
can't explain, and I think

1927
01:34:41,968 --> 01:34:45,180
it needs to be documented
as much as we can.

1928
01:34:45,472 --> 01:34:49,017
Documentation's important.
Without that,

1929
01:34:49,684 --> 01:34:52,687
it's an interesting story,
and that's it.

1930
01:34:55,023 --> 01:34:56,525
We can only do so much.

1931
01:34:56,650 --> 01:34:58,110
You know,
we're human beings

1932
01:34:58,235 --> 01:34:59,778
and we do the best we can.

1933
01:34:59,903 --> 01:35:01,655
I think
most people really do.

1934
01:35:01,780 --> 01:35:03,740
We don't have
all the answers,

1935
01:35:03,865 --> 01:35:06,827
and I don't think we ever
will have all the answers.

1936
01:35:06,952 --> 01:35:09,204
In the scientific realm.

1937
01:35:09,329 --> 01:35:11,832
What is a human
soul? Is a human soul?

1938
01:35:11,957 --> 01:35:13,834
does it live after death?

1939
01:35:13,959 --> 01:35:15,168
I don't think science
is going

1940
01:35:15,293 --> 01:35:16,670
to answer those questions.

1941
01:35:16,795 --> 01:35:19,881
I think all of these
near-death experiences

1942
01:35:21,341 --> 01:35:24,636
suggest that
that's possible.