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You are part of a criminal enterprise,
what they call laundering cash.

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So, you purchase two sets of tires,

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you never received the tires.

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He was, like,
"Just send me whatever you have."

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What the hell were you thinking?

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You knew that this was a scam?

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Yeah.

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If you're buying something from a thief,
you don't get to sue the thief.

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You can smirk all you want.
You are going to be doomed.

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[narrator]
Now on Tribunal Justice...

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[theme music playing]

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[narrator] Today's case
was filed in Santa Ana, California.

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Your Honor, this is Case #3108
on the calendar

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in the matter of Gallage V. Guzman.

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-Thank you, Byrd.
-You're welcome, Judge.

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Parties have been sworn in,
you may be seated.

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Mr. Gallage, you knew the Defendant,
Mr. Guzman, since middle school,

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but you kind of
fell out of touch since then.

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But you became aware
of the social media account he had,

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which offered discounted items for sale.

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So you purchased two sets of tires.

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One set of tires was for a 2018 BMW,

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the other was for a Dodge Hellcat,

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and you paid $1,400.

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You maintain that you never
received the tires,

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and you further allege that the Defendant
was actually running a scam.

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And so you are suing him
for the return of the $1,400.

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Mr. Guzman, your defense is that
you no longer own this site,

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you don't owe him anything, and you don't
have anything to do with any kind of scam,

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and you know nothing about it.

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-Correct, Your Honor.
-Okay,

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so, Mr. Gallage,
I'm gonna start with you, sir.

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You go on the site, it's the Defendant's
social media account.

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What was the handle on the account?

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-The name was HKC.
-[Acker] HKC.

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-Yeah.
-[Acker] How did you know it was his site?

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[Ashen] Yeah, because he was the one
who actually owned it.

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Like a bunch of my mutual friends
actually talked to him,

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and they bought a bunch of stuff
off of him, and it actually went through.

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So you go on to this Instagram page,

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what do you see,
and how do you purchase items?

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So basically, he would post, like,
how to order,

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like, on the evidence it says, "DM me
with the format," like whatever you want,

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delivery, restaurants, they need
your address, phone number, all that.

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And then they only take Zelle,
CashApp, and crypto.

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-So you DM them and say,
"I want some tires"?

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-Yeah.
-I'm gonna now turn to you, Mr. Guzman.

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Explain to me the operation of this site.

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Okay. Yeah, so it's an Instagram account
that I used to run.

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I don't run it currently.
I sold it off in early January.

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When I was running it, how it would work
is I would use AI

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to scour the web for discount codes.

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You know, there's certain discount codes
on certain sites

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that give you, you know,
large amounts off,

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which I would get, and then I would
in return, order it for the customers,

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and I would take the percentage off.

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Say, if it was a 50% off discount code,
I would give them a roughly, like, 30% off

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and then just keep the remainder.

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-The 20% was your profit?
-Yes.

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What was the name of the person
who you sold it to?

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I was not on a formal basis
with this person.

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-So, you didn't know a name?
-No, I did not.

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[Acker] How much did you sell it for?

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-For $1,600.
-[Acker] $1,600.

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So this person,
we'll just call them "Mr. X,"

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is the person with whom you're in contact

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after you say that this is
the purchase that you want.

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-Now, just so we're clear...
-[Ashen] Mm-hmm.

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...you purchased the tires
through this platform?

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And then you receive information
from this mysterious Mr. X

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who says, "Pay me and then
go to this other location

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to pick up the tires."

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Yes.

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And that was for the first set of tires
you bought was $1000.

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And then, when did you decide to buy

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the second set of tires
through this platform?

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I believe it was two days after.

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Two days after.
So now you've given them $1,400?

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-Yeah.
-And what does this person tell you

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about what you need to do
in order to pick up the tires?

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So, this is what he says. He's like,

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"Oh, like,
it's under someone else's name."

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I'm, like, "Okay, what?"

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-[Acker] You mean the tires you paid for.
-Yeah, the tires.

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-Yes.
-He says, "They're at this location,

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but they're under someone else's name.

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Yeah, he told me this, like, at 4:00 am.

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So, I work. I work at, like, at In-N-Out,

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and I work from 4:00 am to 10:00 am,

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and I texted him back.

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He was like, "Oh, I gotta go
out of country, bro,

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I'm traveling with a bunch
of homies to Colombia or something."

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He was, like,
"You gotta send me it right now."

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Traveling with a bunch
of homies to Colombia.

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-I need the money right now!
-Yeah...

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[all laughing]

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Yeah, he was, like, "Just send me
whatever you have,

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-and I'll get the appointment ready."
-[Acker] How old are you?

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-Eighteen.
-You're 18.

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Is it common now for people to engage
in these transactions

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and not know anybody's name?

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I thought it was Jesse,
like, this whole time.

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Like, well, I didn't--
Like, he was, like, affiliated,

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so that's why I was, like,
okay, everything's safe.

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You could actually see on the account,
there's so many results,

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-like, of people--
-And you knew people

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-who had purchased items.
-Yeah, I knew personally. Yes.

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-Okay, so you go to a tire store.
-Yeah.

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And what this person has said to you
is that the tires will be there,

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but under not your name,
even though you paid for them,

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they will be there
under somebody else's name.

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Yeah.

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So what happens when you go
to try to pick them up?

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I didn't go.
So, it's like a day before, right?

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I call the place.

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I'm, like, "Hey, like, oh, like,

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I'm going to pick up the tires,
like I'm--" Like, I say my name,

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and I'm, like, "Oh, like, I'm the person,
uh, blah, blah, blah,

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pick up the tires tomorrow,
like, is it ready, like, is..."

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And they were, like,

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"No, the tires hasn't been ordered,
I don't even know about your appointment,

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like, there's nothing, like..."

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[Acker] Basically,
they're like, "Who are you?"

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-[Ashen] Yeah!
-We know nothing from you.

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-Yeah.
-We know nothing about these tires.

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-What the heck are you talking about?
-Yeah.

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And then you reach out to
your middle school acquaintance here,

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and ask him for help.

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And you tell him you don't
own the site anymore,

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but you're gonna try to rectify it.

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If I may, he came to my house
with another, uh, another friend,

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and it was kind of on a like,
a very aggressive approach, you know?

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He was telling me to give him his money,

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and I was kind of confused.
I had just woken up.

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I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

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Uh, to where he kind of
broke the situation down to me,

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and I was, you know, just having woke up,

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I was like, "Here's my number, go ahead
and text me and we'll figure it out."

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Which is where that conversation started.

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In your answer, what you say is that
after you allegedly sold the site

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to this mysterious unnamed person,

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that you retained some interest
in the company,

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which was that you got a commission
on the sales.

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But what you say is that you would take
a portion of the sales,

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or the money that was generated
from the sales,

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and convert it to crypto.
Why were you doing that?

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That's just how he wanted to be paid.

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So you were paying some unnamed person

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whose name you didn't know
in cryptocurrency?

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-Yes.
-Why do you think this was a scam?

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[dramatic music playing]

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[narrator]
Coming up, on Tribunal Justice...

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You are a scammer,
and I'm gonna tell you why.

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[theme music playing]

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[narrator] Ashen Gallage says he was
scammed when he bought two sets of tires

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through Jesse Guzman's online business,
and never received them.

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He's suing for the return of his $1,400,
but Jesse claims he sold the business,

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and Ashen is suing the wrong person.

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Why do you think this was a scam?

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I mean, what made you so suspicious,
Mr. Gallage?

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00:07:33,734 --> 00:07:37,533
Uh, I was just suspicious,
like, after he said all that.

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I was like, "Crypto."
And then, like, I don't know, like...

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[Acker] In your complaint, you allege
that the Defendant was running a scam

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-with a small group of people.
-Correct.

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-Correct.
-And that they sell a course

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where they teach people
how to run the scam.

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00:07:53,433 --> 00:07:55,332
Correct. I have it all on video proof.

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You submitted evidence.
May we see the video, please?

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[Acker]
Who's that talking?

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00:08:12,767 --> 00:08:15,233
-Is that your voice, sir?
-Yes, that is old video.

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[Acker] You said, "As if you were using
your own card,"

172
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is what you're saying, yeah?
-[Jesse] This is prior, Your Honor,

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I don't do this.

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[Ashen laughing]

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-This is straight up illegal.
-[laughing]

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You are trying to instruct people

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on how to use other people's
financial information.

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00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,000
Like I said, this is past, and I don't see
how it's relevant to the--

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00:09:05,066 --> 00:09:07,166
[Acker] It's relevant because I say it is,
because I think--

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00:09:07,233 --> 00:09:09,433
-I don't think it's relevant.
-I think not only were you a part

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00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:12,133
of something that deceived
this young man,

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00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,867
you were engaged in a massive
credit card scam in the country.

183
00:09:15,934 --> 00:09:18,266
I have nothing else
for you right now. Judge DiMango?

184
00:09:18,333 --> 00:09:21,066
I just have to ask you,
because Judge Acker said to you,

185
00:09:21,133 --> 00:09:23,667
"What made you so suspicious?"
And I'm sitting here thinking,

186
00:09:23,734 --> 00:09:26,734
"What took you so damn long
to become suspicious?"

187
00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,600
What the hell were you thinking?

188
00:09:28,667 --> 00:09:30,500
You call a guy who you don't know,

189
00:09:30,567 --> 00:09:33,633
and you say, "Huh, bro,
I'm waiting for you. All good?

190
00:09:33,700 --> 00:09:35,767
How does this work?"
He goes, "Send the bread."

191
00:09:35,834 --> 00:09:37,767
And you send the bread!

192
00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,233
You are a scammer.
And I'm gonna tell you why.

193
00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:46,867
Because this owner person whose name
you don't know, you're the owner.

194
00:09:46,934 --> 00:09:48,800
You're the one he's communicating with.

195
00:09:48,867 --> 00:09:50,834
You're still running this whole thing.

196
00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:53,300
-No, I'm not. Okay.
-You can say whatever you want.

197
00:09:53,367 --> 00:09:55,533
Who do you send the money to?
What's the name?

198
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,165
-Jesse Guzman.
-Jesse, that's his name.

199
00:09:57,233 --> 00:09:59,467
-Yes.
-Everything in here points to you.

200
00:09:59,533 --> 00:10:01,567
-And you know why you use crypto?
-It does not.

201
00:10:01,633 --> 00:10:04,133
Of course, you're gonna say no.
You won't say, "Yeah, you caught me!"

202
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:05,767
What do you think this is, Perry Mason?

203
00:10:05,834 --> 00:10:08,066
-"You got me, Judge!" No.
-[Jesse] Okay.

204
00:10:08,133 --> 00:10:09,834
Maybe you just don't understand
the evidence.

205
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:12,533
No, no, no,
what I understand is criminality.

206
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,400
This here is about you.
You know why you use crypto?

207
00:10:16,467 --> 00:10:20,400
Because crypto is money
that the government can't trace.

208
00:10:20,467 --> 00:10:21,633
But it's entered my bank.

209
00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:23,667
Well, it could, but you're gonna say
something else.

210
00:10:23,734 --> 00:10:25,000
There's trace of it in my bank.

211
00:10:25,066 --> 00:10:27,867
So you're taking and you're pocketing
this money in your bank account, right?

212
00:10:27,934 --> 00:10:29,600
-Ten percent, yes.
-Yeah. For a percent.

213
00:10:29,667 --> 00:10:31,133
No, you are the owner.

214
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,467
-Owner.
-I am not though.

215
00:10:32,533 --> 00:10:33,567
You are!

216
00:10:33,633 --> 00:10:35,367
-Both of these people.
-All the evidence is there.

217
00:10:35,433 --> 00:10:37,767
So the other guy,
the owner whose name you don't know.

218
00:10:37,834 --> 00:10:39,600
Okay.
-He's the criminal, right?

219
00:10:39,667 --> 00:10:40,667
-Yeah.
-Right? Yeah.

220
00:10:40,734 --> 00:10:42,834
But you know what you're doing?
There's a term in the law,

221
00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:44,200
which I'm sure you know.

222
00:10:44,266 --> 00:10:45,633
"Acting in concert."

223
00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:47,200
-Is that so?
-And that makes you

224
00:10:47,266 --> 00:10:51,834
equally responsible for the acts
of the main actor in a crime.

225
00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,900
But the bottom line is
you are all the things

226
00:10:53,967 --> 00:10:56,000
that you are saying in here
that you're not.

227
00:10:56,066 --> 00:10:59,400
You are part and parcel
of this criminal enterprise.

228
00:10:59,467 --> 00:11:02,333
That makes you as criminal as the owner.

229
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,166
You can smirk all you want,
but if they come after you, sir,

230
00:11:06,233 --> 00:11:08,767
you are going to be doomed.

231
00:11:08,834 --> 00:11:11,133
Well, I've already done,
I've already done, you know,

232
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,233
my, how can I say, consequences for that,

233
00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:15,767
which is why I say that's in the past.

234
00:11:15,834 --> 00:11:18,834
So what are your consequences? Did you
get arrested and charged with a crime?

235
00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:21,300
Um, I had to go to court
for being involved.

236
00:11:21,367 --> 00:11:23,834
I go to court, too. I visit, I come here,

237
00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:26,300
but I'm not charged with a crime.
So I asked you a direct question.

238
00:11:26,367 --> 00:11:27,533
Were you charged with a crime?

239
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,300
I had to work out a deal.

240
00:11:29,367 --> 00:11:30,633
You had to give somebody up.

241
00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:33,567
You had to give up, because you are part
of a criminal enterprise.

242
00:11:33,633 --> 00:11:38,100
Using cryptocurrency
to what they call laundering cash.

243
00:11:38,165 --> 00:11:41,165
You're stealing from him.
That's the illegal money that you get,

244
00:11:41,233 --> 00:11:44,000
and you launder that money
because there is no other person.

245
00:11:44,066 --> 00:11:46,433
-He's just some made up-- You Honor, what?
-Your Honor.

246
00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,934
You seem pretty familiar, are you sure
you're not the one behind it?

247
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,233
You know why I'm familiar
because I spent 20 years

248
00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:55,000
on the bench doing criminal cases,
and I spent the 20 years before that

249
00:11:55,066 --> 00:11:56,900
prosecuting criminal cases.

250
00:11:56,967 --> 00:11:59,066
So I am very well-versed in this,

251
00:11:59,133 --> 00:12:03,767
and that's why, sir, I do know
you're the criminal in this case.

252
00:12:03,834 --> 00:12:05,967
And if you think
you've got it tough from me,

253
00:12:06,033 --> 00:12:09,066
-you're up next, Judge Levy.
-[audience laughs]

254
00:12:09,133 --> 00:12:11,033
That's not true, I'm a nice guy.

255
00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:12,266
What are you talking about?

256
00:12:12,333 --> 00:12:14,900
All right, Mr. Guzman, you acknowledge

257
00:12:14,967 --> 00:12:17,266
that you were in the past involved
in illegal conduct

258
00:12:17,333 --> 00:12:18,934
as we saw on the screen, right?

259
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,667
Yes, which I've strayed away from.

260
00:12:20,734 --> 00:12:22,900
Okay. And you were contacted
by the authorities?

261
00:12:22,967 --> 00:12:25,433
-Yes.
-That was in 2024?

262
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:27,266
-Yes.
-And when the authorities came,

263
00:12:27,333 --> 00:12:29,233
was that the feds that came,
or was it state police?

264
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,900
No, it was state police.
They didn't arrest me,

265
00:12:31,967 --> 00:12:34,533
but they bring me in for questioning,
and I had to talk to the DA.

266
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,133
-Okay. So you gave a proffer to the DA?
-Yes.

267
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,734
And part of that proffer was telling them
what you knew

268
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,300
-about this criminal organization.
-Yes, sir, and to give it up,

269
00:12:42,367 --> 00:12:44,066
and to ensure I wouldn't do it again.

270
00:12:44,133 --> 00:12:46,266
Did the police indicate to you
or did the DA indicate to you

271
00:12:46,333 --> 00:12:48,467
that you may have to testify
against people that are arrested

272
00:12:48,533 --> 00:12:50,734
as a result of your cooperation?

273
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,900
They said that,
but I was not having to testify.

274
00:12:52,967 --> 00:12:54,834
-[Levy] Well, you haven't yet.
-No. Not yet.

275
00:12:54,900 --> 00:12:56,934
-How old were you when you went in?
-Eighteen.

276
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,433
-No, 19, sorry.
-You were 18. 19. And how old are you now?

277
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:01,533
-I'm 19.
-So you're still 19 years old.

278
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,767
-Yes.
-So, now, with this shock to you, right?

279
00:13:05,834 --> 00:13:07,867
-That you could have gone to jail.
-Yes.

280
00:13:07,934 --> 00:13:10,834
It would seem to me that
the smart thing to do at that time

281
00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:13,500
would be to wash your hands completely.

282
00:13:13,567 --> 00:13:15,767
Of course, Your Honor,
but you know, greed gets to all of us,

283
00:13:15,834 --> 00:13:18,934
and I thought keeping 10% would,
you know, just keep me at a clean slate.

284
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,734
No, I get that. I represented criminals
for 12 years,

285
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,233
and a lot of my clients
said the same exact thing.

286
00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:26,600
-It was just too good to give up.
-Of course.

287
00:13:26,667 --> 00:13:28,800
But here's the problem, Mr. Guzman.

288
00:13:28,867 --> 00:13:32,300
You see, if the Plaintiff here
loses this case, and you might,

289
00:13:32,367 --> 00:13:34,934
what he knows now,
'cause I'm gonna tell him,

290
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,967
is that if you go to the DA's office
and you let them know

291
00:13:38,033 --> 00:13:40,367
that he's back up to his old tricks again,

292
00:13:40,433 --> 00:13:42,934
they're gonna arrest him.
Not only for this,

293
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,100
but for the first charge, too.

294
00:13:45,165 --> 00:13:49,500
And with you as a complainant,
they will get from you restitution

295
00:13:49,567 --> 00:13:52,633
from him, because what
they're gonna tell you, Mr. Guzman,

296
00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,467
“We're going to prosecute you
for the old case.

297
00:13:54,533 --> 00:13:56,233
We're going to prosecute you
for this case."

298
00:13:56,300 --> 00:14:00,400
And the only way that you're going
to avoid a lengthy prison sentence

299
00:14:00,467 --> 00:14:02,567
is if you pay him back his money.

300
00:14:02,633 --> 00:14:04,867
Because that's exactly what I think
is going to happen,

301
00:14:04,934 --> 00:14:09,734
because quite frankly, sir, I don't think
you're a bona fide purchaser for value.

302
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,333
You knew that there was something
shady about this deal.

303
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:13,600
You knew.

304
00:14:14,567 --> 00:14:17,133
[narrator] Coming up,
on Tribunal Justice...

305
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,400
Now this BMW,
did you buy the car yourself?

306
00:14:19,467 --> 00:14:20,967
I've been saving from 16.

307
00:14:21,033 --> 00:14:23,200
-[Levy] What about the Hellcat?
-That's my friend's car.

308
00:14:23,266 --> 00:14:27,066
So this $400 that you spent was money
that was given to you by your friend,

309
00:14:27,133 --> 00:14:29,233
so it's not even your $400
you're suing for.

310
00:14:32,033 --> 00:14:33,633
[theme music playing]

311
00:14:34,165 --> 00:14:36,967
[narrator] Ashen Gallage says
scam artist Jesse Guzman

312
00:14:37,033 --> 00:14:41,066
owes him $1,400 for tires he bought
and never received.

313
00:14:41,133 --> 00:14:44,834
But Jesse says he sold his business
before Ashen's purchase,

314
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:46,633
so he's suing the wrong person.

315
00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:49,834
How much were these $1000 tires
that you were buying?

316
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:51,467
They were for your BMW, right?

317
00:14:51,533 --> 00:14:53,600
'Cause you had to go online and find them.

318
00:14:53,667 --> 00:14:55,200
[Ashen] They were $2,000.

319
00:14:55,266 --> 00:14:56,734
-Two thousand dollars?
-Yeah.

320
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,700
You knew that this was a scam,

321
00:14:58,767 --> 00:15:00,867
that there was something
wrong going on, right?

322
00:15:01,567 --> 00:15:03,467
-Uh, not really.
-You knew. You knew.

323
00:15:03,533 --> 00:15:04,567
You suspected it.

324
00:15:04,633 --> 00:15:06,266
Yeah, I did, yes, Your Honor.

325
00:15:06,333 --> 00:15:09,333
And that's why you're not
a bona fide purchaser for value.

326
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,467
And I'm ruling against you
for that reason,

327
00:15:11,533 --> 00:15:13,400
not because I don't think
you're a hard-working guy.

328
00:15:13,467 --> 00:15:14,467
I think you are.

329
00:15:14,533 --> 00:15:18,500
I like the way you came to court today
in a suit and tie that shows respect,

330
00:15:18,567 --> 00:15:20,600
-but it's also to teach you a lesson.
-Yeah.

331
00:15:20,667 --> 00:15:24,033
If something is too good to be true,
it probably is.

332
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:25,600
And he's a bad guy.

333
00:15:25,667 --> 00:15:29,266
So if you lose this case, the only way
you're going to get your money back

334
00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:32,533
is if you go to the DA's office
and turn him in.

335
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:33,934
Then you'll get your money back.

336
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,734
Because DA's don't like it
when Defendants get a break,

337
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,834
and then stick it back in the DA's eye
by committing more crimes.

338
00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:42,900
They don't like that. I think we're done.

339
00:15:42,967 --> 00:15:45,233
-Thank you, Your Honor.
-[Acker] Judge Levy made a good point.

340
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:48,266
Look, if you're buying something
from a thief, and the thief says,

341
00:15:48,333 --> 00:15:51,500
"Here's a Rolex for $300,"

342
00:15:51,567 --> 00:15:53,633
and you know that it's a Rolex,

343
00:15:53,734 --> 00:15:56,500
and you know he can't prove
where it came from...

344
00:15:56,567 --> 00:15:58,967
-Yeah.
-...then you don't get to sue the thief

345
00:15:59,033 --> 00:16:01,467
because he didn't give you
the stolen Rolex,

346
00:16:01,533 --> 00:16:03,100
and you gave him $300.

347
00:16:03,166 --> 00:16:05,934
That means you're just both in bed
with the bad business.

348
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,166
No idea-- I had no idea
until later on, I found out.

349
00:16:10,233 --> 00:16:11,834
Through a friend.

350
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,233
You didn't think it was a deal
that was too good to be true?

351
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:16,767
Not really. I don't know.

352
00:16:16,834 --> 00:16:19,266
Well, yeah, I was like, "Oh, yeah,
that was a good deal, but..."

353
00:16:19,333 --> 00:16:20,800
But you sent the money?

354
00:16:20,867 --> 00:16:24,233
-Yeah, I sent the money, that's why.
-[Acker] Yeah, we know he sent the money.

355
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:27,367
But why didn't you just send him
the money back?

356
00:16:27,433 --> 00:16:28,533
Because I no longer had it.

357
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,767
[Acker] Oh, right, right, it went to

358
00:16:30,834 --> 00:16:33,567
-If I knew-- If I knew I was being sued...
-...Mystery Man!

359
00:16:33,633 --> 00:16:36,567
...and I was gonna go in front of a court,
why would I not just send the money back?

360
00:16:36,633 --> 00:16:38,900
-I don't know, why would you not?
-Because I did not have it.

361
00:16:38,967 --> 00:16:41,133
-[Acker] Mystery Man.
-Why would I pay $1,400 out of my pocket

362
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,734
I didn't think I was entitled to pay back?

363
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,100
I got you, Mystery Man had it.
Well, that clears that up.

364
00:16:46,165 --> 00:16:47,467
I don't have anything else.

365
00:16:47,533 --> 00:16:49,533
I want to go back to you for a second.

366
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,200
I guess we're trying to save you somehow.

367
00:16:52,266 --> 00:16:55,834
You make a purchase of $1000,

368
00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:59,266
then you make another purchase
two days later for $400.

369
00:16:59,333 --> 00:17:02,467
At that point when you were giving
the money over,

370
00:17:02,533 --> 00:17:06,767
did you believe that there was
a scam there at that point?

371
00:17:06,834 --> 00:17:09,200
-No. I know why.
-[DiMango] Okay. Why?

372
00:17:09,266 --> 00:17:12,333
Because there's a text
that you get on your phone.

373
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,532
It's like your appointment has been set,
you're all scheduled.

374
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:17,467
-And I was, like, "Okay, wow."
-[DiMango] Okay, good.

375
00:17:17,532 --> 00:17:20,633
And the scheduled appointment
was at a business place.

376
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,700
Because you had actually found
the businesses online,

377
00:17:23,767 --> 00:17:25,834
and you said,
"This is where I'd like to go."

378
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:27,567
-Would that be correct?
-Yes, Your Honor.

379
00:17:27,633 --> 00:17:31,567
And they said, "Fine, we'll set you up
at those places, right?"

380
00:17:31,633 --> 00:17:34,567
Yes, Your Honor.
I didn't think of it as suspicious

381
00:17:34,633 --> 00:17:36,734
until I went to his house
and I talked to him.

382
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:37,800
-To his house?
-Yeah.

383
00:17:37,867 --> 00:17:39,333
So it was way after the transactions.

384
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,533
So at the point that you were making them,

385
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,900
you just thought you were making
purchases of these tires.

386
00:17:45,967 --> 00:17:47,800
Like a fire sale kind of thing?

387
00:17:47,867 --> 00:17:50,266
So may be at that point in time,

388
00:17:50,333 --> 00:17:52,333
there might be an argument
that I could make

389
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,266
that you were a bona fide
purchaser for value at that point.

390
00:17:55,333 --> 00:17:58,166
And once you realized
that you were being scammed,

391
00:17:58,233 --> 00:18:01,500
it was already too late,
because when you went to him,

392
00:18:01,567 --> 00:18:04,066
he's giving you the runaround
with, "You know..."

393
00:18:04,133 --> 00:18:05,800
You're not even a good friend of his.

394
00:18:05,867 --> 00:18:08,000
I could tell you guys were never friends.

395
00:18:08,066 --> 00:18:10,000
You're Mr. Cool, Smooth Smart,

396
00:18:10,066 --> 00:18:12,367
and you're Mr.-- We have
a word in Italian, like, "jadrool,"

397
00:18:12,433 --> 00:18:14,500
but you're one of these people,
you just go through life

398
00:18:14,567 --> 00:18:16,767
and you think everything's gonna be
the way you think it is.

399
00:18:16,834 --> 00:18:19,433
But you would be scammed
by somebody like him.

400
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:21,266
All right, I don't have
any other questions of you.

401
00:18:21,333 --> 00:18:24,700
Yeah, this isn't as though
you go on this Instagram account

402
00:18:24,767 --> 00:18:28,700
and you say,
"Just find me on the Internet

403
00:18:28,767 --> 00:18:31,066
four tires for the BMW," right?

404
00:18:31,133 --> 00:18:32,900
You, according to your texts,

405
00:18:32,967 --> 00:18:37,467
you text and say, "This is the store
that I wanna go to to pick up the tires."

406
00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:40,600
Yeah. But it's on a-- On the--
He would, like, select a store.

407
00:18:40,667 --> 00:18:43,967
Right. Now, this BMW, it's a 2018?

408
00:18:44,033 --> 00:18:46,000
-Yeah.
-And you work in In-N-Out?

409
00:18:46,066 --> 00:18:48,166
-Yeah.
-Did you buy the car yourself?

410
00:18:48,233 --> 00:18:50,066
Uh, well, my parents helped me out
a little bit,

411
00:18:50,133 --> 00:18:52,000
and I've been saving up since 16.

412
00:18:52,066 --> 00:18:53,700
-Since you're 16.
-This is my dream car.

413
00:18:53,767 --> 00:18:55,367
-I just bought it.
-What about the Hellcat?

414
00:18:55,433 --> 00:18:56,867
That's my friend's car.

415
00:18:56,934 --> 00:18:59,133
So this $400 that you spent,

416
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,266
was money that was given to you
by your friend

417
00:19:01,333 --> 00:19:04,767
to get him tires the same way,
right, that you had gotten tires?

418
00:19:04,834 --> 00:19:06,066
-Yeah.
-Right, so it's not even

419
00:19:06,133 --> 00:19:07,633
your $400 you're suing for.

420
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:09,667
No-- Well, yeah, I guess.

421
00:19:09,734 --> 00:19:12,233
-I got nothing further.
-[scoffs]

422
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:14,967
You can't tell me this kid
wasn't suckered in, come on...

423
00:19:15,033 --> 00:19:16,900
[all laughing]

424
00:19:16,967 --> 00:19:19,333
-[Acker laughing]
-We're gonna retire to deliberate.

425
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,467
Thank you.

426
00:19:20,533 --> 00:19:25,100
Court now stands in recess, this case
will be recalled, parties are excused.

427
00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:27,033
[dramatic music playing]

428
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:30,600
[dramatic music playing]

429
00:19:31,066 --> 00:19:34,033
So, is he not a bona fide purchaser,

430
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:36,934
-or is just not the sharpest tack...
-He can be both.

431
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,266
-[laughing]
-He can be both,

432
00:19:38,333 --> 00:19:39,400
he's not mutually exclusive.

433
00:19:39,467 --> 00:19:42,433
That's true. In fact, to be
the non bona fide purchaser,

434
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:44,000
you gotta be sharp.

435
00:19:44,066 --> 00:19:47,233
I don't know, like, I-- When we got
this case, I started going online

436
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:49,934
and taking a look at how these codes work,

437
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,900
and how people can buy these promotions.

438
00:19:51,967 --> 00:19:56,233
I know there are some legit sites
that do offer promo codes

439
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,834
that allow people to search
for a wide variety of goods.

440
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:01,266
So, I'm really on the fence.

441
00:20:01,333 --> 00:20:05,200
There's part of me that just sees him
as a little bit of a naive, but...

442
00:20:05,266 --> 00:20:07,667
-Well, if I may, just to jump in.
-You can.

443
00:20:07,734 --> 00:20:11,533
That with respect to the $400
that he just finally gave up,

444
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,934
just keep in mind, you know,
when we're on that fence

445
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,967
about is he or is he not
a bona fide purchaser for value,

446
00:20:17,033 --> 00:20:20,266
he made it very clear in his statement
to us, in his sworn statement

447
00:20:20,333 --> 00:20:21,533
that was his money.

448
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,734
And but for that little inquiry
at the end,

449
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,333
there may have been a decision
to give him $1,400

450
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,000
that he was not otherwise entitled to,
and he'd have been very happy taking that.

451
00:20:30,066 --> 00:20:31,934
He thinks the money was stolen from him.

452
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,300
He's not entitled to the money
because he admits it's not his,

453
00:20:34,367 --> 00:20:36,367
but I don't think he put it in his papers,

454
00:20:36,433 --> 00:20:39,166
because he is sophisticated enough
to recognize

455
00:20:39,233 --> 00:20:41,000
that just because the money
came from his person...

456
00:20:41,066 --> 00:20:42,934
-He might feel responsible for it.
-Yes, exactly.

457
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,934
It's like, "I had the money,
he took it from me."

458
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,667
You know, this guy is so malleable

459
00:20:46,734 --> 00:20:49,233
that anything you would've said to him,
after a while I'm thinking,

460
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:52,000
"Stop saying yes to Judge Levy.
You're screwing yourself here.

461
00:20:52,066 --> 00:20:53,433
What the hell are you doing?"

462
00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,700
He's asking you, "So, did you take
the money and set it on fire?

463
00:20:56,767 --> 00:21:00,100
"Yeah. Yeah, I think I did, now.
Now that I think about it."

464
00:21:00,166 --> 00:21:03,800
But anyway, if you want to keep with the
bona fide purchaser for value argument,

465
00:21:03,867 --> 00:21:05,800
at the time he made the purchases,

466
00:21:05,867 --> 00:21:08,133
he had no reason to believe,
and he said it.

467
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,100
They sent him the thing that said "Yes,
you're gonna go to this particular place,

468
00:21:11,166 --> 00:21:12,800
you're gonna meet there, you're gonna--"

469
00:21:12,867 --> 00:21:14,734
And he said to him, "Are you sure, bro?"
"Yeah."

470
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,133
He goes, "It's like bringing
your car someplace for your friend."

471
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,200
He quoted it in here, that's how st--
How unsophisticated he is.

472
00:21:21,266 --> 00:21:26,367
The Defendant is, I'm telling you,
I'm convinced the Defendant is the owner.

473
00:21:26,433 --> 00:21:28,567
He is the runner
of this criminal enterprise.

474
00:21:28,633 --> 00:21:31,266
And this ju--, this dope here,

475
00:21:31,333 --> 00:21:33,767
is just going along with... [laughs]

476
00:21:33,834 --> 00:21:36,900
I can't help-- I get very Italian
when I get mad!

477
00:21:36,967 --> 00:21:39,633
He's just going along.
I told you he would have sunk himself

478
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:42,800
if you kept asking him questions,
I thought I had to save him.

479
00:21:42,867 --> 00:21:46,033
And the argument that I would make
even in favor of the $400

480
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:49,467
is that if I give you $400

481
00:21:49,533 --> 00:21:51,834
to go buy something from Adam,

482
00:21:51,900 --> 00:21:55,100
and then Adam steals it from you, I'm not
looking at Adam. I'm looking at you.

483
00:21:55,166 --> 00:21:56,700
-I gave you the money.
-Exactly. Correct.

484
00:21:56,767 --> 00:21:58,200
So you go back and get my money.

485
00:21:58,266 --> 00:21:59,900
-You don't have to convince me.
-You sue Adam.

486
00:21:59,967 --> 00:22:02,200
-Give me my money, and then we're good.
-[DiMango] Right.

487
00:22:02,266 --> 00:22:03,867
-I'm with you.
-Listen I don't mind--

488
00:22:03,934 --> 00:22:06,200
-I am with you.
-I certainly don't mind dissenting.

489
00:22:06,266 --> 00:22:09,100
And to simply dismiss
the Plaintiff's case,

490
00:22:09,166 --> 00:22:10,467
I'll dissent on the one hand.

491
00:22:10,533 --> 00:22:15,100
But on the other hand, I would also agree
to dismiss the case without prejudice,

492
00:22:15,166 --> 00:22:18,834
and to allow the Plaintiff to go
and to file his complaint

493
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:22,166
and once he comes back with proof
that he got law enforcement involved.

494
00:22:22,233 --> 00:22:24,667
Whatever law enforcement
chooses to do or not do,

495
00:22:24,734 --> 00:22:26,166
that's up to law enforcement.

496
00:22:26,233 --> 00:22:29,600
But at least we can show
that not succeeding here on the merits,

497
00:22:29,667 --> 00:22:31,100
we're giving him an out.

498
00:22:31,166 --> 00:22:33,467
Which is simply do what you
should have done to begin with,

499
00:22:33,533 --> 00:22:35,834
which is go to the authorities
and notify them.

500
00:22:35,900 --> 00:22:38,133
If this guy's a scammer,
he's still scamming people,

501
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,767
and more people are going to do it.

502
00:22:39,834 --> 00:22:42,900
And then I would be willing
to reevaluate when he came back.

503
00:22:42,967 --> 00:22:45,166
-[Acker] All right.
-I don't care how you dismiss his part,

504
00:22:45,233 --> 00:22:48,033
I'm not dismissing,
this kid's getting his money.

505
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:49,967
-We're on board for $1,400?
-Yes.

506
00:22:50,033 --> 00:22:51,600
-Okay.
-All right.

507
00:22:51,667 --> 00:22:53,166
Great deliberation.

508
00:22:53,734 --> 00:22:56,633
[dramatic music playing]

509
00:22:56,700 --> 00:22:59,967
Court is back in session. I remind
both parties you're still under oath.

510
00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:01,133
[Acker] Thank you, Byrd.

511
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,333
We had a very sparkly
and lively deliberation,

512
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,400
and we're not at all unanimous.

513
00:23:07,467 --> 00:23:11,633
The thing I'll point out is that
the issue was you,

514
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:14,633
and was whether or not
you were naive enough

515
00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:17,633
to ignore some of these warning signs.

516
00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:19,533
"I need the money now,
I'm going to Colombia!"

517
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,200
And "Use this fake name!"
You know, whether or not

518
00:23:22,266 --> 00:23:24,433
there was some naivete there,

519
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:29,133
and Judge Levy came out exactly
where he said he would.

520
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,967
Uh, he would dismiss your case
in its entirety,

521
00:23:32,033 --> 00:23:35,300
or alternatively,
he would dismiss it without prejudice

522
00:23:35,367 --> 00:23:39,100
affording you the opportunity to go
to the police, make a report,

523
00:23:39,166 --> 00:23:43,900
come back, and then prove
that you were, in fact, victimized.

524
00:23:43,967 --> 00:23:48,266
I can't remember the Italian word
that Judge DiMango used,

525
00:23:48,333 --> 00:23:52,500
but I think it translates into
"young and naive,"

526
00:23:52,567 --> 00:23:54,767
-and that's a very polite way.
-That's a nice translation.

527
00:23:54,834 --> 00:23:57,867
A nice translation of it is
"young and naive."

528
00:23:57,934 --> 00:24:01,333
We recognize that you got $400
from somebody else.

529
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,200
But again,
we are going to award you that money

530
00:24:04,266 --> 00:24:06,800
because again, if I give her some money,

531
00:24:06,867 --> 00:24:10,433
and she gives it to Judge Levy
and Judge Levy rips her off,

532
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:13,500
I'm going to come to her and say,
"You know what, where's my money?

533
00:24:13,567 --> 00:24:14,834
You dealt with him."

534
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:18,233
So, we are gonna award you back that $400.

535
00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:22,633
We're also gonna award you the $1,000
that you're seeking.

536
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:26,934
And we're also going to hopefully
try to award you some common sense,

537
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,300
like at some point,
the warning bells have to go off.

538
00:24:30,367 --> 00:24:32,300
You need to sharpen up a little bit.

539
00:24:32,367 --> 00:24:34,700
We are giving you the benefit
of the doubt here,

540
00:24:34,767 --> 00:24:38,367
and we're entering judgment
in your favor for $1,400.

541
00:24:38,433 --> 00:24:40,633
Judge Levy is dissenting.

542
00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:42,266
That's the verdict of the court.

543
00:24:42,333 --> 00:24:44,600
Sir. I don't know what you're up to
in life now,

544
00:24:44,667 --> 00:24:48,734
but I hope you're doing better than taking
things from people and victimizing folks

545
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,033
who work hard for their money.

546
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,800
That's the verdict of the court.
Thank you.

547
00:24:53,066 --> 00:24:55,734
This case is now concluded,
parties are excused.

548
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,266
You may step out.

549
00:24:59,367 --> 00:25:01,333
I know my prior actions
probably didn't look the best,

550
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:02,633
but people change ways.

551
00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:05,500
I was so angry, because it was $1,400,
that was a lot for me.

552
00:25:05,567 --> 00:25:08,300
Yeah, he confused me. He was upset,
you know, he was banging on the door,

553
00:25:08,367 --> 00:25:11,266
like, "Where's my money," I'm like,
"What you talking about, I just woke up."

554
00:25:11,333 --> 00:25:12,533
Aah! Like that.

555
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,533
That was just in the moment,
you know, I could get this

556
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,000
off my hands
and still get a commission.

557
00:25:16,066 --> 00:25:17,500
I'm never buying tires online.

558
00:25:17,567 --> 00:25:19,934
I'm just going to the tire shop,
and I'm just getting them there.

559
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,467
[narrator] A former friend do you wrong?

560
00:25:22,533 --> 00:25:25,967
Let Tribunal Justice buddy up
to your case.

561
00:25:26,033 --> 00:25:28,734
Find us on social media.

562
00:25:29,367 --> 00:25:31,367
[theme music playing]