1 00:00:06,233 --> 00:00:07,567 While your mother was alive, 2 00:00:07,633 --> 00:00:10,800 she loaned your now ex-husband 3 00:00:10,867 --> 00:00:13,967 $46,000 to buy a boat. 4 00:00:14,033 --> 00:00:17,333 My mom already had early signs of Alzheimer's and dementia then. 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,667 You didn't give her any money from the sale of the boat. 6 00:00:19,734 --> 00:00:22,200 Basically she told me, you know, that I wouldn't have to worry about it. 7 00:00:22,266 --> 00:00:24,100 Is this man really suggesting 8 00:00:24,166 --> 00:00:27,033 that somebody who was losing her mental faculties 9 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:30,633 had the wherewithal to say, "Oh, you don't have to pay me back any money"? 10 00:00:30,700 --> 00:00:32,333 Why did the two of you get divorced? 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,967 [announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice. 12 00:00:35,033 --> 00:00:38,433 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,633 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Blaine, Minnesota. 14 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:01,934 [Byrd] Your Honor, this is case number 2080 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,367 on the calendar in the matter of SL Living Trust versus Casey. 16 00:01:06,433 --> 00:01:07,433 [Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd. 17 00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:08,567 You're welcome, Judge. 18 00:01:08,633 --> 00:01:10,400 Parties have been sworn in. 19 00:01:10,467 --> 00:01:12,367 Everybody, have a seat. 20 00:01:12,433 --> 00:01:15,734 On behalf of the trust, ma'am, you are Cindi Rella, correct? 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,166 - [Cindi] Yes. - And basically 22 00:01:17,233 --> 00:01:19,066 this case is really all about-- 23 00:01:19,133 --> 00:01:21,333 let's see the photo up on the screen. 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,734 This case really all started from this woman 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,100 who's now deceased and that's your mom. 26 00:01:26,166 --> 00:01:28,133 - Her name is Sharon. - Yes. 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:33,000 [Judge DiMango] And Sharon left a will and that's why we're all here. 28 00:01:33,066 --> 00:01:36,200 There's Sharon, probably saddened to see what's happening. 29 00:01:36,265 --> 00:01:37,265 Yes. 30 00:01:37,333 --> 00:01:40,033 So the bottom line here is while your mother was alive, 31 00:01:40,100 --> 00:01:43,200 she loaned your then boyfriend, 32 00:01:43,265 --> 00:01:46,066 then husband, now ex-husband 33 00:01:46,133 --> 00:01:49,900 $46,000 to buy a boat. 34 00:01:49,967 --> 00:01:51,533 And let's take a look at that boat. 35 00:01:52,734 --> 00:01:57,000 And she used her insurance policy as collateral for that boat. 36 00:01:57,066 --> 00:01:58,233 When she died, 37 00:01:58,300 --> 00:02:02,200 she left that insurance policy to you, 38 00:02:02,266 --> 00:02:04,967 your sister, and her four grandchildren. 39 00:02:05,033 --> 00:02:06,266 Yes, Your Honor. 40 00:02:06,333 --> 00:02:08,433 The proceeds, however, from that boat 41 00:02:08,500 --> 00:02:12,700 were reduced by the fact that he did not pay off the loan, 42 00:02:12,767 --> 00:02:16,667 and so they took the balance, that $14,000, 43 00:02:16,734 --> 00:02:18,100 from that insurance policy 44 00:02:18,166 --> 00:02:20,633 thereby decreasing the payments that you, your sister, 45 00:02:20,700 --> 00:02:24,100 and your nieces and nephews would have received. 46 00:02:24,166 --> 00:02:26,466 So you're here suing him for that money. 47 00:02:26,533 --> 00:02:29,200 Your position, sir, is I might have owed her the money 48 00:02:29,266 --> 00:02:32,333 but she forgave the loan, and that's where we stand. 49 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:33,600 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 50 00:02:33,667 --> 00:02:36,000 You guys meet in 2011, you date, 51 00:02:36,066 --> 00:02:38,633 your mother-in-law apparently likes you, right? 52 00:02:38,700 --> 00:02:39,700 Yes. 53 00:02:39,767 --> 00:02:41,066 [Judge DiMango] And tell us what happened. 54 00:02:41,133 --> 00:02:42,400 Were you there when he asked for the money? 55 00:02:42,466 --> 00:02:43,867 How did this come down? 56 00:02:43,934 --> 00:02:46,400 So he had mentioned that he was going to ask-- 57 00:02:46,466 --> 00:02:49,633 approach my mom for-- she would help cosign on a loan 58 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:52,166 for him to get a boat because fishing is his passion 59 00:02:52,233 --> 00:02:53,700 and he wanted to do more tournament fishing. 60 00:02:53,767 --> 00:02:56,000 It wasn't for all of us to enjoy the boat. 61 00:02:56,066 --> 00:02:57,066 This was for him to... 62 00:02:57,133 --> 00:02:58,133 [Judge DiMango] I was gonna ask you that. 63 00:02:58,200 --> 00:02:59,767 - [Cindi] ... for tournament fishing. - Okay. So this is... 64 00:02:59,834 --> 00:03:01,700 [Cindi] My mother never went out on the boat. 65 00:03:01,767 --> 00:03:03,700 My dad had a boat. We were never allowed to fish on it. 66 00:03:03,767 --> 00:03:07,033 My mother never went on it either, so I get it. Go on. 67 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:09,800 So I didn't, um, understand what kind of a loan it was going to be. 68 00:03:09,867 --> 00:03:13,433 I thought it was just going to be like a, uh, regular personal loan, 69 00:03:13,500 --> 00:03:15,333 not one against her life insurance policy. 70 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,000 I wasn't there when the two of them went to the bank. 71 00:03:18,066 --> 00:03:21,667 It's called Thrivent, which is also where her life insurance policy was. 72 00:03:21,734 --> 00:03:23,233 So she got the life insurance policy. 73 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,066 You need 40-something thousand dollars for the boat 74 00:03:26,133 --> 00:03:28,000 and there was an agreement that you had made 75 00:03:28,066 --> 00:03:30,466 - that you would be paying it to Thrivent. - Yes. 76 00:03:30,533 --> 00:03:32,900 [Judge DiMango] And you were doing okay for a few years, correct? 77 00:03:32,966 --> 00:03:34,500 - Correct. - And then something happened. 78 00:03:34,567 --> 00:03:36,266 What happened? 79 00:03:36,333 --> 00:03:41,000 So shortly after down the road, I had a work incident. 80 00:03:41,066 --> 00:03:44,033 Um, I also lost my job right before COVID. I had two job changes. 81 00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:46,233 That was during the time of the refinance. 82 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:47,867 - So you couldn't pay anymore? - [Brian] Correct. 83 00:03:47,934 --> 00:03:50,300 I was struggling with between medical bills and... 84 00:03:50,367 --> 00:03:53,433 [Judge DiMango] And you were still married at the time when the refinance occurred? 85 00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:56,734 No, that was after. The refinance happened after. 86 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,567 That's right. Because you were divorced before that, 87 00:03:58,633 --> 00:04:00,500 - 2015, right, or something? - Correct. 88 00:04:00,567 --> 00:04:02,367 [Judge DiMango] And so this was in '21... 89 00:04:02,433 --> 00:04:04,600 - Correct. - ... that your mom refinanced with him? 90 00:04:04,667 --> 00:04:07,533 [Cindi] Correct. I helped her with it because Thrivent would try to call him. 91 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,133 He wouldn't return calls. They would try to email him. 92 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:11,333 He wouldn't return them. 93 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:13,834 So then what they would do is they would reach out to my mom 94 00:04:13,900 --> 00:04:17,100 and my mom already had early signs of Alzheimer's and dementia then 95 00:04:17,166 --> 00:04:18,767 and she was very nervous. 96 00:04:18,834 --> 00:04:20,800 She wouldn't ever make any decisions at all. 97 00:04:20,867 --> 00:04:25,066 But you're not making any contention here that she was not of sound mind and body 98 00:04:25,133 --> 00:04:27,867 when she actually made the refinance, correct? 99 00:04:27,934 --> 00:04:29,066 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] First thought, you know, 100 00:04:29,133 --> 00:04:30,332 when you see an older person, 101 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:31,800 maybe there was some sort of overreaching 102 00:04:31,867 --> 00:04:34,867 because of some sort of mental incapacity or deficiency. 103 00:04:34,933 --> 00:04:38,400 So that being said, she--at the point in time that she lent you the money, 104 00:04:38,467 --> 00:04:40,967 she was of sound mind and body, correct? 105 00:04:41,033 --> 00:04:42,567 - Correct. - That reduced your payments. 106 00:04:42,633 --> 00:04:45,233 At first you were paying how much? 107 00:04:45,300 --> 00:04:48,200 I think it was like 380 or 360. 108 00:04:48,266 --> 00:04:50,700 [Judge DiMango] And at that point after you refinanced, 109 00:04:50,767 --> 00:04:52,066 what did you then owe? 110 00:04:52,133 --> 00:04:53,700 Uh, it was like 175-ish. 111 00:04:53,767 --> 00:04:54,933 [Judge DiMango] Yeah. So it dropped significantly. 112 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:56,000 Correct. 113 00:04:56,066 --> 00:04:58,100 How long did you pay it at the reduced rate? 114 00:04:58,166 --> 00:05:00,400 Uh, it was probably another six months. 115 00:05:00,467 --> 00:05:03,867 Okay. Now, when you start to default on the payments, 116 00:05:03,934 --> 00:05:05,900 do you sell the boat? 117 00:05:05,967 --> 00:05:08,900 Um, I--we sold the boat when we got divorced. 118 00:05:08,967 --> 00:05:10,166 [Judge DiMango] How much did you sell it for? 119 00:05:10,233 --> 00:05:11,700 $18,000, Your Honor. 120 00:05:11,767 --> 00:05:13,000 How long did you have it? 121 00:05:13,066 --> 00:05:14,900 [Brian] For roughly three years. 122 00:05:14,967 --> 00:05:17,367 [Judge DiMango] You didn't give her any money from the sale of the boat. 123 00:05:17,433 --> 00:05:18,500 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] You didn't give anybody 124 00:05:18,567 --> 00:05:21,000 in the insurance company any money from the sale of the boat. 125 00:05:21,066 --> 00:05:22,867 No. Part of the money had to go to the-- 126 00:05:22,934 --> 00:05:25,867 to the other company that I took a loan out when the motor had blown, 127 00:05:25,934 --> 00:05:26,967 so I had to have that re-fixed. 128 00:05:27,033 --> 00:05:28,233 Otherwise, the boat was worth next to nothing. 129 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:29,834 So you were like a loan octopus? 130 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:32,567 You had loans here and there and everywhere, right? 131 00:05:32,633 --> 00:05:33,734 I had two loans, Your Honor. 132 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,734 But at some point, when her mom passes away, 133 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,133 there's a distribution of the assets. 134 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,300 But you said, "My God, we're short $14,000 or $15,000," 135 00:05:43,367 --> 00:05:46,567 because they called in his debt. 136 00:05:46,633 --> 00:05:49,266 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] Why didn't you pay? 137 00:05:49,332 --> 00:05:51,767 Your Honor, like you said earlier, like, when I first her mother, 138 00:05:51,834 --> 00:05:53,734 um, it was shortly I started calling her mom. 139 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,300 We did a lot of work for her. 140 00:05:55,367 --> 00:05:58,266 Um, we helped her move. I helped her redecorate her new place. 141 00:05:58,332 --> 00:06:00,967 I actually gave her one of my favorite pictures I ever had. 142 00:06:01,033 --> 00:06:03,734 - [Judge DiMango] A picture of you? - Um, it was a replica Monet 143 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,700 that I had custom framed that hung above her bed 144 00:06:05,767 --> 00:06:08,533 that she absolutely loved and with the colors that she loved. 145 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:09,867 Um, you know, I liked... 146 00:06:09,934 --> 00:06:11,734 So you're basically charging her for that now? 147 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,533 - [Brian] No. I mean... - Yeah, you are. 148 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:14,767 Come on. You're just saying this is what I did. 149 00:06:14,834 --> 00:06:16,100 I gave her this, I gave her that, 150 00:06:16,166 --> 00:06:18,633 [makes sound] I don't owe her anything. 151 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:20,500 - Go on. But finish up. - Pretty much, I mean, 152 00:06:20,567 --> 00:06:22,233 when me and her mom agreed to that loan, 153 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:25,500 she made it more sound that everything was gonna be taken care of, 154 00:06:25,567 --> 00:06:28,100 hence why she put it against her life insurance policy. 155 00:06:28,166 --> 00:06:29,700 She didn't just put a lien on the boat. 156 00:06:29,767 --> 00:06:31,100 [Judge DiMango] Okay. So now I've gotta stop you. 157 00:06:31,166 --> 00:06:35,667 So you're saying that you had a conversation with her mother 158 00:06:35,734 --> 00:06:37,900 where Sharon said to you what? 159 00:06:37,967 --> 00:06:39,266 [Brian] Well, basically she told me, you know, 160 00:06:39,332 --> 00:06:40,734 that I wouldn't have to worry about it, like because... 161 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,567 - [Judge DiMango] So she said... - ... I couldn't get another loan. 162 00:06:42,633 --> 00:06:45,600 Okay. And that's the only evidence that you have 163 00:06:45,667 --> 00:06:46,933 that she forgave you this loan, would that be correct? 164 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,600 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] You were the only one 165 00:06:49,667 --> 00:06:51,166 present when she said that, weren't you? 166 00:06:51,233 --> 00:06:52,633 - No, I wasn't the only one present. - [Judge DiMango] Who was there? 167 00:06:52,700 --> 00:06:54,133 She was sitting there with me. 168 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:55,933 [Judge DiMango] Were you there when your mom said to him 169 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,967 that she would forgive the loan? 170 00:06:58,033 --> 00:07:00,100 She said she would help him with the loan 171 00:07:00,166 --> 00:07:03,433 but the expectation was that he would be paying it back. 172 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:05,567 She passed away when? 20... 173 00:07:05,633 --> 00:07:07,200 April of '23. 174 00:07:07,266 --> 00:07:11,000 [Judge DiMango] And you did the work in this house in what, 2015? 175 00:07:11,066 --> 00:07:12,066 2015, Your Honor. 176 00:07:12,133 --> 00:07:14,934 [Judge DiMango] So she had, let's just say, seven years 177 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,200 and in those seven years, she ever say anything to you? 178 00:07:18,266 --> 00:07:19,266 No. 179 00:07:19,332 --> 00:07:20,400 [Judge DiMango] And I'm gonna leave it on that note. 180 00:07:20,467 --> 00:07:21,600 Judge Levy. 181 00:07:21,667 --> 00:07:23,934 You guys were divorced in 2021. 182 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,166 [Cindi] Correct. 183 00:07:25,233 --> 00:07:28,066 January of '21 is when the divorce was finalized. 184 00:07:28,133 --> 00:07:29,266 - January? - [Cindi] Yes. 185 00:07:29,332 --> 00:07:31,166 It doesn't surprise me that you know that. 186 00:07:31,667 --> 00:07:33,567 My mother slept with the judgment of divorce 187 00:07:33,633 --> 00:07:36,233 that she had against my father under her pillow. 188 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:40,066 She knew exactly every detail in the judgment of divorce. 189 00:07:40,133 --> 00:07:41,133 Okay. 190 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,467 Would it be fair to say, sir, that you were aware 191 00:07:43,533 --> 00:07:47,066 that your former mother-in-law was going to leave money 192 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:48,834 to your then wife, 193 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:50,400 that that was separate property, 194 00:07:50,467 --> 00:07:52,332 not to you, not marital property, 195 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:53,633 - it was separate property? - [Brian] Correct. 196 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:57,433 And that you understood when you divorced in 2021 197 00:07:57,500 --> 00:07:59,400 that there would be no recognizable claim 198 00:07:59,467 --> 00:08:01,166 that you could ever have 199 00:08:01,233 --> 00:08:04,767 as the ex-husband for the proceeds of a life insurance policy 200 00:08:04,834 --> 00:08:07,567 which were--was valued, what, $183,000? 201 00:08:07,633 --> 00:08:09,100 It was valued at 200,000. 202 00:08:09,166 --> 00:08:11,800 It was paid out at 183,000 roughly or so... 203 00:08:11,867 --> 00:08:13,900 - After all the expenses? - After the loan payout... 204 00:08:13,967 --> 00:08:18,600 So $200,000 life insurance policy. You were entitled to absolutely zero. 205 00:08:18,667 --> 00:08:19,800 Correct. 206 00:08:19,867 --> 00:08:22,233 Again, you divorced in January 2021. 207 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:25,467 Nothing prevented you at that time once you become the ex-husband 208 00:08:25,533 --> 00:08:28,033 to say to your former mother-in-law, 209 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:31,233 "Hey, listen, Ma, could you put something in writing 210 00:08:31,300 --> 00:08:32,667 saying that the loan's forgiven?" 211 00:08:32,734 --> 00:08:34,600 Nothing prevented you from doing that. 212 00:08:34,667 --> 00:08:36,834 No, Your Honor. Nothing prevented me from doing that. 213 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:37,967 That was a mistake on my part and I should've. 214 00:08:38,033 --> 00:08:39,100 [Judge Levy] Big mistake. 215 00:08:39,165 --> 00:08:42,000 And my sense is the reason you didn't pay the loan back 216 00:08:42,066 --> 00:08:43,600 is because your ex-wife was the recipient 217 00:08:43,667 --> 00:08:45,700 of a $200,000 windfall. 218 00:08:45,767 --> 00:08:47,700 And if she got $200,000, 219 00:08:47,767 --> 00:08:50,867 why is she busting my chops for $14,000? 220 00:08:50,934 --> 00:08:52,165 Agreed. Yes, Your Honor. 221 00:08:53,533 --> 00:08:56,165 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 222 00:08:56,233 --> 00:08:58,734 You're constantly trying to throw these little darts at the ex. 223 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,700 She said this, she didn't invite me-- 224 00:09:00,767 --> 00:09:03,467 like you can always tell when you've got bitter ex-spouses, 225 00:09:03,533 --> 00:09:05,266 it's becoming very clear. 226 00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:06,367 [dramatic musical sting] 227 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:09,734 [theme music plays] 228 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,900 [announcer] Cindi Rella is suing ex-husband Brian Casey for $10,000. 229 00:09:14,967 --> 00:09:17,700 Cindi claims her mother took out a loan for Brian 230 00:09:17,767 --> 00:09:21,467 so he could buy a boat and now it's time to pay up. 231 00:09:21,533 --> 00:09:25,133 But Brian says his former mother-in-law loved him so much 232 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,967 that she forgave the loan. 233 00:09:27,033 --> 00:09:31,066 This is now in April of 2021, you're now three months divorced 234 00:09:31,133 --> 00:09:33,266 and you remember in April of 2021, 235 00:09:33,333 --> 00:09:35,200 she's sending you an email saying, 236 00:09:35,266 --> 00:09:39,433 "Brian, Thrivent, the bank sent paperwork to mom 237 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:43,734 stating that the loan she cosigned with you against her life insurance policy 238 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,000 is going into default because you missed payments. 239 00:09:46,066 --> 00:09:47,967 If the payments are not made current, 240 00:09:48,033 --> 00:09:50,200 they will pay the loan off completely 241 00:09:50,266 --> 00:09:54,700 by removing the loan balance from mom's life insurance policy." Right? 242 00:09:54,767 --> 00:09:55,767 Correct. 243 00:09:55,834 --> 00:09:57,800 At no time did you respond to her, 244 00:09:57,867 --> 00:10:00,967 "Hey, mom said that I didn't have to pay that loan back." 245 00:10:01,033 --> 00:10:02,233 Not in here. 246 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,467 You never said that mom and I had an agreement. 247 00:10:04,533 --> 00:10:06,400 I'm sorry she didn't tell you. 248 00:10:06,467 --> 00:10:07,633 You didn't say that. 249 00:10:07,700 --> 00:10:09,000 Not in here. 250 00:10:09,066 --> 00:10:12,433 Because that's where it should have been if that was the truth. 251 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:16,533 So now it is June of 2021. 252 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,800 At that point, you had already sold the boat, 253 00:10:18,867 --> 00:10:20,467 - right, for $18,000. - [Brian] Agreed. 254 00:10:20,533 --> 00:10:23,066 You apply no money towards the loan. 255 00:10:23,133 --> 00:10:26,633 So June of 2021 is when you refinance 256 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:29,333 that original $33,000 note 257 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:34,400 and now you're refinancing for $16,240, 258 00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:35,600 - right? - Correct. 259 00:10:35,667 --> 00:10:37,600 [Judge Levy] And at no point at this time 260 00:10:37,667 --> 00:10:40,300 do you have your former mother-in-law when she goes to the bank, 261 00:10:40,367 --> 00:10:41,834 cosigns that loan with you, 262 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:46,165 and once again puts her life insurance policy as collateral. 263 00:10:46,233 --> 00:10:48,633 She never says to you, forget the loan. 264 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:51,066 Like I said, I didn't think I needed it in writing. 265 00:10:51,133 --> 00:10:53,200 She was there when we had the original conversation. 266 00:10:53,266 --> 00:10:54,867 Not only did you not get it in writing 267 00:10:54,934 --> 00:10:58,934 but by her cosigning the loan and putting her life insurance policy on, 268 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,934 it's an indication that she wanted to get paid the money back. 269 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,533 If not, she just would've paid it. 270 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:05,266 She would've taken you off the note. 271 00:11:05,333 --> 00:11:06,333 Right? 272 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:07,834 I can't speak for somebody else, Your Honor. 273 00:11:07,900 --> 00:11:09,567 That's what logically would've happened 274 00:11:09,633 --> 00:11:13,633 if in fact she had an agreement with you to simply forgive the loan. 275 00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:16,567 But she still forced you to sign it, right? 276 00:11:16,633 --> 00:11:17,700 Agreed. 277 00:11:17,767 --> 00:11:19,867 Now in July of 2021, 278 00:11:19,934 --> 00:11:23,767 just one month after you have these reduced monthly payments, 279 00:11:23,834 --> 00:11:26,233 there's no reason why a grown man like yourself 280 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,867 who's working shouldn't be able to pay off $178 281 00:11:29,934 --> 00:11:32,200 but yet in July of 2021, 282 00:11:32,266 --> 00:11:34,567 you get another email from your ex-wife, 283 00:11:34,633 --> 00:11:38,734 "Brian, my mom has been contacted because the June and July payments 284 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,333 have not been made yet." 285 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,533 So you sign it, "I'm gonna pay it back," 286 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,233 and then you don't even pay it back the first month. 287 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:47,066 That's when I lost my job, Your Honor. 288 00:11:47,133 --> 00:11:49,033 [Judge Levy] What about July? What about August, 289 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:50,600 September, October, 290 00:11:50,667 --> 00:11:52,200 November, December? 291 00:11:52,266 --> 00:11:55,066 Nothing, because the emails continue. 292 00:11:55,133 --> 00:11:56,667 You won't even respond to her and she says, 293 00:11:56,734 --> 00:11:58,533 "Brian, please respond to me." 294 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,500 Like, you're ducking her. 295 00:12:00,567 --> 00:12:02,133 You know what you never say here? 296 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,667 "Mom forgave the loan." Nothing. Zero. 297 00:12:04,734 --> 00:12:05,967 Because she never did. 298 00:12:06,033 --> 00:12:08,734 Instead, you finally say, "Yes, I got your email." 299 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,500 And then she says--so smart-- 300 00:12:12,567 --> 00:12:16,467 "Do you agree with the arrangement of the loan?" 301 00:12:16,533 --> 00:12:18,467 Do you agree? And you said, "Yup. 302 00:12:18,533 --> 00:12:21,700 Not much to disagree with at this point." 303 00:12:21,767 --> 00:12:24,100 Come on. How do you explain that? 304 00:12:24,166 --> 00:12:25,767 I had nothing to disagree with. 305 00:12:25,834 --> 00:12:27,967 But without a job, I had to get caught back up on things, 306 00:12:28,033 --> 00:12:30,300 like, medical was more important than paying for a boat. 307 00:12:30,367 --> 00:12:31,934 - Are you working now? - [Brian] I am working now. 308 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,233 So, why didn't you pay her back when you started working? 309 00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:36,767 'Cause I received a letter that the loan was already paid off. 310 00:12:36,834 --> 00:12:38,633 [laughs] Judge Acker? 311 00:12:39,133 --> 00:12:41,533 [Judge Acker] I really approached your defense as, 312 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,300 is this man really suggesting 313 00:12:43,367 --> 00:12:46,533 that somebody who was losing her mental faculties 314 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,133 have the wherewithal to say, 315 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,000 "Oh, you don't have to pay me back any money 316 00:12:50,066 --> 00:12:55,533 even though this money is charged against a life insurance policy 317 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,333 that I've intended for my family." 318 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,533 I'm like, "Does he really want us to believe that?" 319 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,233 So, let's dig into your story. 320 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:06,967 According to you, it was after you did this work for Ms. Sharon. 321 00:13:07,033 --> 00:13:08,567 She said, "Don't worry about this money. 322 00:13:08,633 --> 00:13:12,500 I'd rather you be good with your boat than make sure my children, 323 00:13:12,567 --> 00:13:15,133 who I birthed from my body, get anything." 324 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:17,500 According to you, she said, "I want you to be okay." 325 00:13:17,567 --> 00:13:20,033 So, um, do you remember her words 326 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,367 when she forgave you this loan? 327 00:13:22,433 --> 00:13:24,166 So, it--like, we were sitting outside. 328 00:13:24,233 --> 00:13:26,400 The reason why she took it out against her life insurance, 329 00:13:26,467 --> 00:13:27,633 she knew I couldn't get another loan. 330 00:13:27,700 --> 00:13:28,867 She said not to worry about it. 331 00:13:28,934 --> 00:13:31,800 She took out the best loan possible, tried to get me all the best rates. 332 00:13:31,867 --> 00:13:34,200 I mean, her mom loved me well enough that I was written into the will 333 00:13:34,266 --> 00:13:36,500 to make her drinks at her funeral party, 334 00:13:36,567 --> 00:13:39,633 which I didn't even--aware her mom passed and wasn't informed of that. 335 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:41,834 Like, that's the relationship we had together. 336 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:43,467 Like, all that work, all we did, 337 00:13:43,533 --> 00:13:45,567 that's pretty much why she cosigned on the boat 338 00:13:45,633 --> 00:13:47,567 and told me that I wouldn't have to worry about it. 339 00:13:47,633 --> 00:13:50,433 What do you think she meant when she said, "Don't worry about it"? 340 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:52,200 Exactly what you're saying right now. 341 00:13:52,266 --> 00:13:54,533 I figured, like, if the loan-- if something happened, 342 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,900 the loan would be paid off just like Ms. Rella stated 343 00:13:56,967 --> 00:13:58,433 that she wasn't gonna tell the rest of the family 344 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:01,100 if something happened to her mother that the loan would be paid off. 345 00:14:01,166 --> 00:14:04,567 You're constantly trying to throw these little darts at the ex. She said this. 346 00:14:04,633 --> 00:14:06,800 She didn't invite me--like, you can always tell 347 00:14:06,867 --> 00:14:10,133 when you've got bitter ex-spouses, it's becoming very clear. 348 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,100 Are these things true, by the way, when he says that 349 00:14:13,166 --> 00:14:15,600 your mother wrote him into the will to make drinks? 350 00:14:15,667 --> 00:14:17,133 - And, you know, it seems like they... - At the--at the time... 351 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,333 - [Judge Acker] ... were in fact close. - Yeah. 352 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,767 At the time, yes, when, um, we had worked on making sure 353 00:14:21,834 --> 00:14:23,433 she had her trust set up and her will set up, 354 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:26,567 she was, like, she loved these pineapple upside-down cake shots. 355 00:14:26,633 --> 00:14:28,700 And she was like, "I want you to make those at my funeral." 356 00:14:28,767 --> 00:14:30,834 Ooh, pineapple upside-down cake shots? 357 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:34,165 Yes, that was--she didn't drink but she liked those shots. [chuckles] 358 00:14:34,233 --> 00:14:36,367 She said that I want him to make 'em. 359 00:14:36,433 --> 00:14:40,200 And at her will though, there was a no alcohol allowed. 360 00:14:40,266 --> 00:14:44,900 So, you can't have shots at the funeral if they don't have a liquor license. 361 00:14:44,967 --> 00:14:46,000 Hence, why he wasn't called, 362 00:14:46,066 --> 00:14:48,066 and there was really no reason for him to be there anyway. 363 00:14:48,133 --> 00:14:49,266 [Judge Acker] You see, he was mad at that. 364 00:14:49,333 --> 00:14:52,967 And now, I actually believe that you very likely did 365 00:14:53,033 --> 00:14:55,900 have some affection for her mother and she for you 366 00:14:55,967 --> 00:14:59,100 because if she didn't, she wouldn't have cosigned the loan. 367 00:14:59,165 --> 00:15:01,700 Uh, Your Honor, if I borrow somebody $500 368 00:15:01,767 --> 00:15:04,700 and they say it's a loan and I say, "Don't worry about it. Pay me back"... 369 00:15:04,767 --> 00:15:06,266 - So, when somebody cosigns... - ... I expect that I may not 370 00:15:06,333 --> 00:15:08,433 - ever get paid back. - ... a document-- 371 00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:10,567 you know, this was not a handshake deal. 372 00:15:10,633 --> 00:15:14,000 You refinanced with a financial institution 373 00:15:14,066 --> 00:15:16,700 that required two signatures. 374 00:15:16,767 --> 00:15:19,333 I feel like I'm talking to a child. 375 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:21,433 I don't have anything further. 376 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:22,967 [Judge DiMango] I have a couple of questions. 377 00:15:23,033 --> 00:15:25,000 Um, why did the two of you get divorced? 378 00:15:26,133 --> 00:15:28,867 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 379 00:15:28,934 --> 00:15:33,700 She had the wherewithal to put in her will that you should serve 380 00:15:33,767 --> 00:15:37,500 upside-down pineapple shots and yet at the same time, 381 00:15:37,567 --> 00:15:40,633 she couldn't write, "I therefore forgive you the loan?" 382 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:42,467 [dramatic musical sting] 383 00:15:44,467 --> 00:15:46,200 [theme music plays] 384 00:15:46,266 --> 00:15:49,433 [announcer] Cindi Rella is suing ex-husband, Brian Casey, 385 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:52,834 for repayment on a boat loan that her mother cosigned. 386 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:56,800 Cindi claims her ex-husband took advantage of her now deceased mother, 387 00:15:56,867 --> 00:15:59,100 but Brian says the loan was forgiven 388 00:15:59,165 --> 00:16:02,433 after all he did for Cindi's mother. 389 00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:05,033 Why did the two of you get divorced? 390 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:06,600 Breakdown of the marriage, 391 00:16:06,667 --> 00:16:10,066 saw things differently just, um, we had two different points of view, 392 00:16:10,133 --> 00:16:12,800 that he had some different personality traits that were coming out 393 00:16:12,867 --> 00:16:15,200 that I chose that I didn't wanna be around anymore. 394 00:16:15,266 --> 00:16:16,266 Accurate? 395 00:16:16,333 --> 00:16:17,533 Uh, I don't know, Your Honor. 396 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,000 I have my different opinions of. 397 00:16:19,066 --> 00:16:20,734 I had a work injury when we were together. 398 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,400 I got a pretty healthy settlement. 399 00:16:22,467 --> 00:16:25,133 Um, she helped me spend that settlement very well. 400 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,633 Um, she had a car accident right before we got divorced 401 00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:29,467 and was coming into a large settlement too. 402 00:16:29,533 --> 00:16:31,700 And that was kind of when things started breaking down 403 00:16:31,767 --> 00:16:34,700 and I noticed that she was--you know, she was pretty greedy with the money. 404 00:16:34,767 --> 00:16:37,467 So, like, that's, I think, a big driving factor in that. 405 00:16:37,533 --> 00:16:40,000 And I think that's a big driving factor as pointed out 406 00:16:40,066 --> 00:16:44,333 by my colleagues that motivated you to feel like you don't really need this 407 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,500 and I did so much stuff for your mom that I really don't have to pay it. 408 00:16:47,567 --> 00:16:50,100 But to something that you said that was even more important 409 00:16:50,165 --> 00:16:51,767 and you probably shouldn't have even said, 410 00:16:51,834 --> 00:16:55,333 she had the wherewithal and the interest enough in you 411 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,333 to put in her will that you should serve at her funeral 412 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,900 upside-down pineapple shots 413 00:17:02,967 --> 00:17:05,767 and yet at the same time, she couldn't write in there, 414 00:17:05,834 --> 00:17:08,666 "And I therefore forgive you the loan?" 415 00:17:08,733 --> 00:17:10,633 - Hmm. - Maybe she just wanted you to help 416 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:13,099 work off the loan by making drinks as a bartender. 417 00:17:13,165 --> 00:17:16,200 But she never said in there that loan was forgiven. 418 00:17:16,266 --> 00:17:20,000 But she did take the time to write in about the drinks. 419 00:17:20,066 --> 00:17:21,300 And just so that we're all clear, 420 00:17:21,367 --> 00:17:24,200 your mother didn't have blown out dementia at any point, right? 421 00:17:24,266 --> 00:17:25,266 - No. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 422 00:17:25,333 --> 00:17:27,333 I just wanted to be sure. And are we ready? 423 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,567 No, I wanna know what you have to say about that to Judge DiMango. 424 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,734 - About the drinks? - About the--absolutely. 425 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,600 You said that she wrote you into her will 426 00:17:36,667 --> 00:17:39,300 not for money, but to make the drinks. 427 00:17:39,367 --> 00:17:42,667 When she wrote that in, Your Honor, that incident had happened 428 00:17:42,734 --> 00:17:44,633 just days before when we had made those drinks 429 00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:47,767 before she went to go prepare that with the plaintiff here. 430 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,400 Um, so that's why it was probably fresh in her head 431 00:17:50,467 --> 00:17:53,100 that she really wanted that done and... 432 00:17:53,166 --> 00:17:55,533 - [Judge Levy] But in--no, no, no, no, no. - Why she wrote that in, I have no idea. 433 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:56,767 [Judge Levy] You have no idea. 434 00:17:56,834 --> 00:17:58,000 I'll take that. Thank you. 435 00:17:58,066 --> 00:18:00,600 Then we are going to retire to deliberate at this time. 436 00:18:00,667 --> 00:18:02,700 And maybe before we come back, we'll have a shot of, 437 00:18:02,767 --> 00:18:05,867 - uh, pineapple upside-down cake. - Yes. 438 00:18:05,934 --> 00:18:07,166 [Byrd] Court now stands in recess. 439 00:18:07,233 --> 00:18:08,567 This case would be recalled. 440 00:18:08,633 --> 00:18:10,033 Parties are excused. 441 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:13,500 [dramatic musical sting] 442 00:18:13,567 --> 00:18:16,233 I don't see any way that he's gonna get himself 443 00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,467 out of his obligation to repay this loan. 444 00:18:20,533 --> 00:18:24,266 The mother was overly generous to give a nonfamily member, 445 00:18:24,333 --> 00:18:28,700 not even a husband at the time when she did in 2011, money. 446 00:18:28,767 --> 00:18:31,900 And then the gall on him to think that because he gave her a picture 447 00:18:31,967 --> 00:18:35,166 or painted a wall that this was going to be a... 448 00:18:35,233 --> 00:18:36,867 - A copy. [laughs] - [Judge DiMango] Yeah, a copy, right. 449 00:18:36,934 --> 00:18:41,467 Uh, forgiven--he was going to be forgiven the loan is absolutely absurd. 450 00:18:41,533 --> 00:18:45,033 I think that the plaintiff deserves all $10,000. 451 00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:49,333 One of the last things that the defendant said that just stuck with me as well is, 452 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,934 he said, "She, the plaintiff, 453 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,133 - helped me spend my settlement money." - Oh, I--oh. 454 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,934 [Judge Levy] "And I should be able to benefit something as well." 455 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,367 So, she had not yet settled, according to him, 456 00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:03,000 her case but they got divorced. 457 00:19:03,066 --> 00:19:04,500 So, he's entitled to nothing. 458 00:19:05,033 --> 00:19:08,166 She would be entitled to a portion of the settlement as his wife 459 00:19:08,233 --> 00:19:09,867 because if he couldn't work, 460 00:19:09,934 --> 00:19:12,533 obviously whatever you earn during the course of the marriage 461 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,066 is considered marital property. 462 00:19:14,133 --> 00:19:16,567 So, she was well within her right to help me 463 00:19:16,633 --> 00:19:18,467 - spend my settlement money. - [Judge DiMango] Right. 464 00:19:18,533 --> 00:19:19,533 - With the laws of... - But... 465 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,600 - ... consortium and all... - [Judge Levy] But once... 466 00:19:20,667 --> 00:19:21,667 - [Judge Acker laughs] - ... involved in that. 467 00:19:21,734 --> 00:19:24,266 [Judge Levy] But once they got divorced and she got her settlement, 468 00:19:24,333 --> 00:19:25,500 he doesn't get anything 469 00:19:25,567 --> 00:19:29,767 and he most certainly doesn't get anything from the ex-mother-in-law's will. 470 00:19:29,834 --> 00:19:31,934 - Like you said, one bitter man. - I was gonna say. 471 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,700 - One bitter guy. - He just had bad timing. 472 00:19:33,767 --> 00:19:36,567 [Judge Acker] Indeed. Many strains of bitterness 473 00:19:36,633 --> 00:19:38,233 running through him, 474 00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:40,233 but they don't add up to a legal defense. 475 00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:41,567 - So, there you have it. - [Judge DiMango] Agreed. 476 00:19:41,633 --> 00:19:44,000 So, we're unanimous in granting her the full amount she's requesting. 477 00:19:44,066 --> 00:19:45,300 Indeed. 478 00:19:45,367 --> 00:19:48,133 [dramatic musical sting] 479 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,400 [Byrd] Court is back in session. 480 00:19:49,467 --> 00:19:51,734 I remind parties, you're still under oath. 481 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,000 - Thank you, Byrd. - Uh-hmm. 482 00:19:53,834 --> 00:19:56,900 You know, silence from the living 483 00:19:56,967 --> 00:20:01,667 can often speak louder than hearsay from the dead. 484 00:20:01,734 --> 00:20:03,300 That's what this reminds me of. 485 00:20:04,133 --> 00:20:05,900 Where you should've spoken out, 486 00:20:05,967 --> 00:20:07,800 where you could've spoken out, 487 00:20:07,867 --> 00:20:09,333 you said nothing. 488 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,367 There were emails that were read to you 489 00:20:11,433 --> 00:20:14,767 where the response should've been, would've been, 490 00:20:14,834 --> 00:20:18,800 if it were true, that this loan was forgiven, 491 00:20:19,367 --> 00:20:20,467 but it wasn't. 492 00:20:20,533 --> 00:20:24,867 And the hearsay that you claim that Ms. Sharon expressed, 493 00:20:24,934 --> 00:20:27,000 first of all, we didn't find it credible, 494 00:20:27,066 --> 00:20:28,734 the three of us, that that's what she said. 495 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,233 And even if she did say something like that, 496 00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:34,100 it would probably be barred from admission at this trial 497 00:20:34,166 --> 00:20:37,533 as a statement made by a deceased 498 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,000 and didn't fall into an exception for the hearsay rule. 499 00:20:41,066 --> 00:20:44,166 And so, ma'am, you with your papers, 500 00:20:44,233 --> 00:20:48,567 your photographs, your testimony proved to us that indeed 501 00:20:48,633 --> 00:20:53,533 the money that he borrowed should have been paid back by himself. 502 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,900 And so on behalf of the three of us, we are sorry for your loss 503 00:20:57,967 --> 00:21:00,433 because we know that that pain still lasts. 504 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:03,467 And the bottom line is, maybe it'll feel a little bit better 505 00:21:03,533 --> 00:21:07,500 if you know your mom's smiling that you're getting back your $10,000. 506 00:21:07,567 --> 00:21:10,066 And that is the unanimous verdict of the court. 507 00:21:10,133 --> 00:21:11,533 Sir, it's very sad 508 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,600 that this is how you had to end this relationship even further. 509 00:21:15,667 --> 00:21:16,667 [gavel bangs] 510 00:21:16,734 --> 00:21:18,500 [Byrd] This case is now concluded. 511 00:21:18,567 --> 00:21:20,734 Parties are excused. You may step out. 512 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,500 [theme music plays] 513 00:21:23,567 --> 00:21:26,300 Even though her name is Cindi Rella, she's far from a princess. 514 00:21:26,367 --> 00:21:28,767 She's--you know, there's a lot of lies. 515 00:21:28,834 --> 00:21:30,667 She sat there during the whole conversation. 516 00:21:30,734 --> 00:21:34,834 I would disagree with that, but I--there's no proof of it. 517 00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:36,633 I might've showed a little bit of bitterness in court, 518 00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:38,767 but she showed a lot at the end of our divorce. 519 00:21:38,834 --> 00:21:43,100 Um, I'm just glad where I'm at right now and I'm glad that the judges saw through, 520 00:21:43,166 --> 00:21:46,467 um, his shenanigans as far as what he was trying to put a facade on. 521 00:21:46,533 --> 00:21:47,934 It's about a little animosity. 522 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,533 Nope, got mama with me. I'm happy. [laughs] 523 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,433 [announcer] Are you being sued? 524 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,667 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 525 00:21:55,734 --> 00:22:00,066 Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice. 526 00:22:00,133 --> 00:22:03,400 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]