While your mother was alive,
she loaned your now ex-husband
$46,000 to buy a boat.
My mom already had early signs of Alzheimer's and dementia then.
You didn't give her any money from the sale of the boat.
Basically she told me, you know, that I wouldn't have to worry about it.
Is this man really suggesting
that somebody who was losing her mental faculties
had the wherewithal to say, "Oh, you don't have to pay me back any money"?
Why did the two of you get divorced?
[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in Blaine, Minnesota.
[Byrd] Your Honor, this is case number 2080
on the calendar in the matter of SL Living Trust versus Casey.
[Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd.
You're welcome, Judge.
Parties have been sworn in.
Everybody, have a seat.
On behalf of the trust, ma'am, you are Cindi Rella, correct?
- [Cindi] Yes. - And basically
this case is really all about--
let's see the photo up on the screen.
This case really all started from this woman
who's now deceased and that's your mom.
- Her name is Sharon. - Yes.
[Judge DiMango] And Sharon left a will and that's why we're all here.
There's Sharon, probably saddened to see what's happening.
Yes.
So the bottom line here is while your mother was alive,
she loaned your then boyfriend,
then husband, now ex-husband
$46,000 to buy a boat.
And let's take a look at that boat.
And she used her insurance policy as collateral for that boat.
When she died,
she left that insurance policy to you,
your sister, and her four grandchildren.
Yes, Your Honor.
The proceeds, however, from that boat
were reduced by the fact that he did not pay off the loan,
and so they took the balance, that $14,000,
from that insurance policy
thereby decreasing the payments that you, your sister,
and your nieces and nephews would have received.
So you're here suing him for that money.
Your position, sir, is I might have owed her the money
but she forgave the loan, and that's where we stand.
- Correct. - [Judge DiMango] Okay.
You guys meet in 2011, you date,
your mother-in-law apparently likes you, right?
Yes.
[Judge DiMango] And tell us what happened.
Were you there when he asked for the money?
How did this come down?
So he had mentioned that he was going to ask--
approach my mom for-- she would help cosign on a loan
for him to get a boat because fishing is his passion
and he wanted to do more tournament fishing.
It wasn't for all of us to enjoy the boat.
This was for him to...
[Judge DiMango] I was gonna ask you that.
- [Cindi] ... for tournament fishing. - Okay. So this is...
[Cindi] My mother never went out on the boat.
My dad had a boat. We were never allowed to fish on it.
My mother never went on it either, so I get it. Go on.
So I didn't, um, understand what kind of a loan it was going to be.
I thought it was just going to be like a, uh, regular personal loan,
not one against her life insurance policy.
I wasn't there when the two of them went to the bank.
It's called Thrivent, which is also where her life insurance policy was.
So she got the life insurance policy.
You need 40-something thousand dollars for the boat
and there was an agreement that you had made
- that you would be paying it to Thrivent. - Yes.
[Judge DiMango] And you were doing okay for a few years, correct?
- Correct. - And then something happened.
What happened?
So shortly after down the road, I had a work incident.
Um, I also lost my job right before COVID. I had two job changes.
That was during the time of the refinance.
- So you couldn't pay anymore? - [Brian] Correct.
I was struggling with between medical bills and...
[Judge DiMango] And you were still married at the time when the refinance occurred?
No, that was after. The refinance happened after.
That's right. Because you were divorced before that,
- 2015, right, or something? - Correct.
[Judge DiMango] And so this was in '21...
- Correct. - ... that your mom refinanced with him?
[Cindi] Correct. I helped her with it because Thrivent would try to call him.
He wouldn't return calls. They would try to email him.
He wouldn't return them.
So then what they would do is they would reach out to my mom
and my mom already had early signs of Alzheimer's and dementia then
and she was very nervous.
She wouldn't ever make any decisions at all.
But you're not making any contention here that she was not of sound mind and body
when she actually made the refinance, correct?
- Correct. - [Judge DiMango] First thought, you know,
when you see an older person,
maybe there was some sort of overreaching
because of some sort of mental incapacity or deficiency.
So that being said, she--at the point in time that she lent you the money,
she was of sound mind and body, correct?
- Correct. - That reduced your payments.
At first you were paying how much?
I think it was like 380 or 360.
[Judge DiMango] And at that point after you refinanced,
what did you then owe?
Uh, it was like 175-ish.
[Judge DiMango] Yeah. So it dropped significantly.
Correct.
How long did you pay it at the reduced rate?
Uh, it was probably another six months.
Okay. Now, when you start to default on the payments,
do you sell the boat?
Um, I--we sold the boat when we got divorced.
[Judge DiMango] How much did you sell it for?
$18,000, Your Honor.
How long did you have it?
[Brian] For roughly three years.
[Judge DiMango] You didn't give her any money from the sale of the boat.
- Correct. - [Judge DiMango] You didn't give anybody
in the insurance company any money from the sale of the boat.
No. Part of the money had to go to the--
to the other company that I took a loan out when the motor had blown,
so I had to have that re-fixed.
Otherwise, the boat was worth next to nothing.
So you were like a loan octopus?
You had loans here and there and everywhere, right?
I had two loans, Your Honor.
But at some point, when her mom passes away,
there's a distribution of the assets.
But you said, "My God, we're short $14,000 or $15,000,"
because they called in his debt.
- Correct. - [Judge DiMango] Why didn't you pay?
Your Honor, like you said earlier, like, when I first her mother,
um, it was shortly I started calling her mom.
We did a lot of work for her.
Um, we helped her move. I helped her redecorate her new place.
I actually gave her one of my favorite pictures I ever had.
- [Judge DiMango] A picture of you? - Um, it was a replica Monet
that I had custom framed that hung above her bed
that she absolutely loved and with the colors that she loved.
Um, you know, I liked...
So you're basically charging her for that now?
- [Brian] No. I mean... - Yeah, you are.
Come on. You're just saying this is what I did.
I gave her this, I gave her that,
[makes sound] I don't owe her anything.
- Go on. But finish up. - Pretty much, I mean,
when me and her mom agreed to that loan,
she made it more sound that everything was gonna be taken care of,
hence why she put it against her life insurance policy.
She didn't just put a lien on the boat.
[Judge DiMango] Okay. So now I've gotta stop you.
So you're saying that you had a conversation with her mother
where Sharon said to you what?
[Brian] Well, basically she told me, you know,
that I wouldn't have to worry about it, like because...
- [Judge DiMango] So she said... - ... I couldn't get another loan.
Okay. And that's the only evidence that you have
that she forgave you this loan, would that be correct?
- Correct. - [Judge DiMango] You were the only one
present when she said that, weren't you?
- No, I wasn't the only one present. - [Judge DiMango] Who was there?
She was sitting there with me.
[Judge DiMango] Were you there when your mom said to him
that she would forgive the loan?
She said she would help him with the loan
but the expectation was that he would be paying it back.
She passed away when? 20...
April of '23.
[Judge DiMango] And you did the work in this house in what, 2015?
2015, Your Honor.
[Judge DiMango] So she had, let's just say, seven years
and in those seven years, she ever say anything to you?
No.
[Judge DiMango] And I'm gonna leave it on that note.
Judge Levy.
You guys were divorced in 2021.
[Cindi] Correct.
January of '21 is when the divorce was finalized.
- January? - [Cindi] Yes.
It doesn't surprise me that you know that.
My mother slept with the judgment of divorce
that she had against my father under her pillow.
She knew exactly every detail in the judgment of divorce.
Okay.
Would it be fair to say, sir, that you were aware
that your former mother-in-law was going to leave money
to your then wife,
that that was separate property,
not to you, not marital property,
- it was separate property? - [Brian] Correct.
And that you understood when you divorced in 2021
that there would be no recognizable claim
that you could ever have
as the ex-husband for the proceeds of a life insurance policy
which were--was valued, what, $183,000?
It was valued at 200,000.
It was paid out at 183,000 roughly or so...
- After all the expenses? - After the loan payout...
So $200,000 life insurance policy. You were entitled to absolutely zero.
Correct.
Again, you divorced in January 2021.
Nothing prevented you at that time once you become the ex-husband
to say to your former mother-in-law,
"Hey, listen, Ma, could you put something in writing
saying that the loan's forgiven?"
Nothing prevented you from doing that.
No, Your Honor. Nothing prevented me from doing that.
That was a mistake on my part and I should've.
[Judge Levy] Big mistake.
And my sense is the reason you didn't pay the loan back
is because your ex-wife was the recipient
of a $200,000 windfall.
And if she got $200,000,
why is she busting my chops for $14,000?
Agreed. Yes, Your Honor.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
You're constantly trying to throw these little darts at the ex.
She said this, she didn't invite me--
like you can always tell when you've got bitter ex-spouses,
it's becoming very clear.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Cindi Rella is suing ex-husband Brian Casey for $10,000.
Cindi claims her mother took out a loan for Brian
so he could buy a boat and now it's time to pay up.
But Brian says his former mother-in-law loved him so much
that she forgave the loan.
This is now in April of 2021, you're now three months divorced
and you remember in April of 2021,
she's sending you an email saying,
"Brian, Thrivent, the bank sent paperwork to mom
stating that the loan she cosigned with you against her life insurance policy
is going into default because you missed payments.
If the payments are not made current,
they will pay the loan off completely
by removing the loan balance from mom's life insurance policy." Right?
Correct.
At no time did you respond to her,
"Hey, mom said that I didn't have to pay that loan back."
Not in here.
You never said that mom and I had an agreement.
I'm sorry she didn't tell you.
You didn't say that.
Not in here.
Because that's where it should have been if that was the truth.
So now it is June of 2021.
At that point, you had already sold the boat,
- right, for $18,000. - [Brian] Agreed.
You apply no money towards the loan.
So June of 2021 is when you refinance
that original $33,000 note
and now you're refinancing for $16,240,
- right? - Correct.
[Judge Levy] And at no point at this time
do you have your former mother-in-law when she goes to the bank,
cosigns that loan with you,
and once again puts her life insurance policy as collateral.
She never says to you, forget the loan.
Like I said, I didn't think I needed it in writing.
She was there when we had the original conversation.
Not only did you not get it in writing
but by her cosigning the loan and putting her life insurance policy on,
it's an indication that she wanted to get paid the money back.
If not, she just would've paid it.
She would've taken you off the note.
Right?
I can't speak for somebody else, Your Honor.
That's what logically would've happened
if in fact she had an agreement with you to simply forgive the loan.
But she still forced you to sign it, right?
Agreed.
Now in July of 2021,
just one month after you have these reduced monthly payments,
there's no reason why a grown man like yourself
who's working shouldn't be able to pay off $178
but yet in July of 2021,
you get another email from your ex-wife,
"Brian, my mom has been contacted because the June and July payments
have not been made yet."
So you sign it, "I'm gonna pay it back,"
and then you don't even pay it back the first month.
That's when I lost my job, Your Honor.
[Judge Levy] What about July? What about August,
September, October,
November, December?
Nothing, because the emails continue.
You won't even respond to her and she says,
"Brian, please respond to me."
Like, you're ducking her.
You know what you never say here?
"Mom forgave the loan." Nothing. Zero.
Because she never did.
Instead, you finally say, "Yes, I got your email."
And then she says--so smart--
"Do you agree with the arrangement of the loan?"
Do you agree? And you said, "Yup.
Not much to disagree with at this point."
Come on. How do you explain that?
I had nothing to disagree with.
But without a job, I had to get caught back up on things,
like, medical was more important than paying for a boat.
- Are you working now? - [Brian] I am working now.
So, why didn't you pay her back when you started working?
'Cause I received a letter that the loan was already paid off.
[laughs] Judge Acker?
[Judge Acker] I really approached your defense as,
is this man really suggesting
that somebody who was losing her mental faculties
have the wherewithal to say,
"Oh, you don't have to pay me back any money
even though this money is charged against a life insurance policy
that I've intended for my family."
I'm like, "Does he really want us to believe that?"
So, let's dig into your story.
According to you, it was after you did this work for Ms. Sharon.
She said, "Don't worry about this money.
I'd rather you be good with your boat than make sure my children,
who I birthed from my body, get anything."
According to you, she said, "I want you to be okay."
So, um, do you remember her words
when she forgave you this loan?
So, it--like, we were sitting outside.
The reason why she took it out against her life insurance,
she knew I couldn't get another loan.
She said not to worry about it.
She took out the best loan possible, tried to get me all the best rates.
I mean, her mom loved me well enough that I was written into the will
to make her drinks at her funeral party,
which I didn't even--aware her mom passed and wasn't informed of that.
Like, that's the relationship we had together.
Like, all that work, all we did,
that's pretty much why she cosigned on the boat
and told me that I wouldn't have to worry about it.
What do you think she meant when she said, "Don't worry about it"?
Exactly what you're saying right now.
I figured, like, if the loan-- if something happened,
the loan would be paid off just like Ms. Rella stated
that she wasn't gonna tell the rest of the family
if something happened to her mother that the loan would be paid off.
You're constantly trying to throw these little darts at the ex. She said this.
She didn't invite me--like, you can always tell
when you've got bitter ex-spouses, it's becoming very clear.
Are these things true, by the way, when he says that
your mother wrote him into the will to make drinks?
- And, you know, it seems like they... - At the--at the time...
- [Judge Acker] ... were in fact close. - Yeah.
At the time, yes, when, um, we had worked on making sure
she had her trust set up and her will set up,
she was, like, she loved these pineapple upside-down cake shots.
And she was like, "I want you to make those at my funeral."
Ooh, pineapple upside-down cake shots?
Yes, that was--she didn't drink but she liked those shots. [chuckles]
She said that I want him to make 'em.
And at her will though, there was a no alcohol allowed.
So, you can't have shots at the funeral if they don't have a liquor license.
Hence, why he wasn't called,
and there was really no reason for him to be there anyway.
[Judge Acker] You see, he was mad at that.
And now, I actually believe that you very likely did
have some affection for her mother and she for you
because if she didn't, she wouldn't have cosigned the loan.
Uh, Your Honor, if I borrow somebody $500
and they say it's a loan and I say, "Don't worry about it. Pay me back"...
- So, when somebody cosigns... - ... I expect that I may not
- ever get paid back. - ... a document--
you know, this was not a handshake deal.
You refinanced with a financial institution
that required two signatures.
I feel like I'm talking to a child.
I don't have anything further.
[Judge DiMango] I have a couple of questions.
Um, why did the two of you get divorced?
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
She had the wherewithal to put in her will that you should serve
upside-down pineapple shots and yet at the same time,
she couldn't write, "I therefore forgive you the loan?"
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Cindi Rella is suing ex-husband, Brian Casey,
for repayment on a boat loan that her mother cosigned.
Cindi claims her ex-husband took advantage of her now deceased mother,
but Brian says the loan was forgiven
after all he did for Cindi's mother.
Why did the two of you get divorced?
Breakdown of the marriage,
saw things differently just, um, we had two different points of view,
that he had some different personality traits that were coming out
that I chose that I didn't wanna be around anymore.
Accurate?
Uh, I don't know, Your Honor.
I have my different opinions of.
I had a work injury when we were together.
I got a pretty healthy settlement.
Um, she helped me spend that settlement very well.
Um, she had a car accident right before we got divorced
and was coming into a large settlement too.
And that was kind of when things started breaking down
and I noticed that she was--you know, she was pretty greedy with the money.
So, like, that's, I think, a big driving factor in that.
And I think that's a big driving factor as pointed out
by my colleagues that motivated you to feel like you don't really need this
and I did so much stuff for your mom that I really don't have to pay it.
But to something that you said that was even more important
and you probably shouldn't have even said,
she had the wherewithal and the interest enough in you
to put in her will that you should serve at her funeral
upside-down pineapple shots
and yet at the same time, she couldn't write in there,
"And I therefore forgive you the loan?"
- Hmm. - Maybe she just wanted you to help
work off the loan by making drinks as a bartender.
But she never said in there that loan was forgiven.
But she did take the time to write in about the drinks.
And just so that we're all clear,
your mother didn't have blown out dementia at any point, right?
- No. - [Judge DiMango] Okay.
I just wanted to be sure. And are we ready?
No, I wanna know what you have to say about that to Judge DiMango.
- About the drinks? - About the--absolutely.
You said that she wrote you into her will
not for money, but to make the drinks.
When she wrote that in, Your Honor, that incident had happened
just days before when we had made those drinks
before she went to go prepare that with the plaintiff here.
Um, so that's why it was probably fresh in her head
that she really wanted that done and...
- [Judge Levy] But in--no, no, no, no, no. - Why she wrote that in, I have no idea.
[Judge Levy] You have no idea.
I'll take that. Thank you.
Then we are going to retire to deliberate at this time.
And maybe before we come back, we'll have a shot of,
- uh, pineapple upside-down cake. - Yes.
[Byrd] Court now stands in recess.
This case would be recalled.
Parties are excused.
[dramatic musical sting]
I don't see any way that he's gonna get himself
out of his obligation to repay this loan.
The mother was overly generous to give a nonfamily member,
not even a husband at the time when she did in 2011, money.
And then the gall on him to think that because he gave her a picture
or painted a wall that this was going to be a...
- A copy. [laughs] - [Judge DiMango] Yeah, a copy, right.
Uh, forgiven--he was going to be forgiven the loan is absolutely absurd.
I think that the plaintiff deserves all $10,000.
One of the last things that the defendant said that just stuck with me as well is,
he said, "She, the plaintiff,
- helped me spend my settlement money." - Oh, I--oh.
[Judge Levy] "And I should be able to benefit something as well."
So, she had not yet settled, according to him,
her case but they got divorced.
So, he's entitled to nothing.
She would be entitled to a portion of the settlement as his wife
because if he couldn't work,
obviously whatever you earn during the course of the marriage
is considered marital property.
So, she was well within her right to help me
- spend my settlement money. - [Judge DiMango] Right.
- With the laws of... - But...
- ... consortium and all... - [Judge Levy] But once...
- [Judge Acker laughs] - ... involved in that.
[Judge Levy] But once they got divorced and she got her settlement,
he doesn't get anything
and he most certainly doesn't get anything from the ex-mother-in-law's will.
- Like you said, one bitter man. - I was gonna say.
- One bitter guy. - He just had bad timing.
[Judge Acker] Indeed. Many strains of bitterness
running through him,
but they don't add up to a legal defense.
- So, there you have it. - [Judge DiMango] Agreed.
So, we're unanimous in granting her the full amount she's requesting.
Indeed.
[dramatic musical sting]
[Byrd] Court is back in session.
I remind parties, you're still under oath.
- Thank you, Byrd. - Uh-hmm.
You know, silence from the living
can often speak louder than hearsay from the dead.
That's what this reminds me of.
Where you should've spoken out,
where you could've spoken out,
you said nothing.
There were emails that were read to you
where the response should've been, would've been,
if it were true, that this loan was forgiven,
but it wasn't.
And the hearsay that you claim that Ms. Sharon expressed,
first of all, we didn't find it credible,
the three of us, that that's what she said.
And even if she did say something like that,
it would probably be barred from admission at this trial
as a statement made by a deceased
and didn't fall into an exception for the hearsay rule.
And so, ma'am, you with your papers,
your photographs, your testimony proved to us that indeed
the money that he borrowed should have been paid back by himself.
And so on behalf of the three of us, we are sorry for your loss
because we know that that pain still lasts.
And the bottom line is, maybe it'll feel a little bit better
if you know your mom's smiling that you're getting back your $10,000.
And that is the unanimous verdict of the court.
Sir, it's very sad
that this is how you had to end this relationship even further.
[gavel bangs]
[Byrd] This case is now concluded.
Parties are excused. You may step out.
[theme music plays]
Even though her name is Cindi Rella, she's far from a princess.
She's--you know, there's a lot of lies.
She sat there during the whole conversation.
I would disagree with that, but I--there's no proof of it.
I might've showed a little bit of bitterness in court,
but she showed a lot at the end of our divorce.
Um, I'm just glad where I'm at right now and I'm glad that the judges saw through,
um, his shenanigans as far as what he was trying to put a facade on.
It's about a little animosity.
Nope, got mama with me. I'm happy. [laughs]
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["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]