[Judge DiMango] He holds himself out
- to be a handyman? - Yes, ma'am.
[Allen] He said I did great work no matter what.
No, it was not good.
Never had a problem.
He used the wrong wire, and it's high voltage wire,
which was coiled up over my daughter's room.
Do you have any idea what happens when you use the wrong gauge wire?
- A fire. - In other words,
you're not such a handy handyman.
[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in Joshua Tree, California.
Judge, this is case number 2044
on the calendar in the matter of Bevan versus Thomsen.
- Thank you, Byrd. - You're welcome, Judge.
Parties have been sworn in.
You may be seated.
Mr. and Mrs. Bevan, you had a new home.
You were looking to have some work done.
You had trouble finding some contractors to do work.
You came across the defendant's card.
Even though he advertised to be a handyman,
he was not so handy, according to you.
He didn't do the jobs properly that he was hired for,
didn't meet your timeframe.
He ran over your child's bike and caused damage.
Therefore, you're suing him here for $8,800.
What you say, sir, is that they fired you before you could finish.
Therefore, you don't owe them anything.
And in fact, they owe you $3,300
because you claim that they defamed you and slandered you on social media
and that they still have some of your tools at their home.
Let's start with you.
How long had you had this place for?
We had just bought it, Your Honor.
And the work that you needed done was basically to create another bedroom.
What other things?
Minor electrical work and plumbing work?
So we have a family friend that's a retired contractor
who came in and actually framed out the walls for us.
- [Judge DiMango] Uh-hmm. - And then he's a little bit older,
so he said it would take him, you know, two weeks to hang the drywall
and texture the walls and do everything the way it was supposed to.
So I--we called other people, contractors and stuff,
and their schedules were just too busy.
They couldn't do it in the timeframe we had
because we had people coming in to do floors and carpet and everything.
So you wanted this all done within ten days, is that it?
Yes, ma'am.
And some of what we see back there,
the sheetrock is what the defendant was doing, is that correct?
- That's correct. - And, sir, would that be correct so far?
Yes, that's correct.
[Judge DiMango] But when you knew that it was ten days,
did you say you could get it done within ten days?
[Allen] The original job, yes.
But they added more work on top of the job.
[Judge DiMango] Okay. What did you hire him to do exactly?
You hired him to sheetrock, correct?
[Daniel] That's correct. Four outlets...
[Judge DiMango] And install four outlets,
two switches, and the installation of ceiling fans?
[Daniel] Yes, ma'am.
Now, did you give them a total price or did you break it down?
Your Honor, I broke it down when I first gave all the pricing.
[Judge DiMango] I don't see that there.
[Allen] No, yeah, I sent them a total invoice
after so it's all easier and no headaches.
I always do it that way.
But when I went up in person,
I gave them a pricing on electrical,
a pricing on the mudding, sanding, and texture,
and a pricing on the, you know, the ceiling fans and stuff as well.
- So you gave them three separate prices. - [Allen] Yes.
Now, you did that for a reason,
- didn't you, sir? - Yes, Your Honor.
[Judge DiMango] And what was that reason?
- Because I'm a handyman. - [Judge DiMango] Okay.
So that was a big bone of contention here.
He holds himself out according to the business card that I saw here
and that you found to be a handyman.
And why is that important here?
Which one of you wants to tell me?
Because he's not allowed to charge more for parts, materials,
everything more than $500.
- [Judge DiMango] Correct? - Yes.
[Judge DiMango] So the bottom line is
there are some issues that are legal issues here, not just factual issues.
And those legal issues are whether or not the defendant, as a handyman,
had the ability to charge you in excess of $500
for all the work that you asked him to do
or whether or not he could charge you individually for those.
And in California, which is where this occurred, there are some rules.
Your position is even still the job was lousy
and so he shouldn't be paid for what he did.
Would that be correct?
- Yes, ma'am. - [Judge DiMango] In other words,
Mr. Thomsen, you're not such a handy handyman.
All right. Let me go to--because I have proof of him saying that I--
after he, uh, said he's hiring someone else
that he said I did great work no matter what...
Uh, we do have that.
You saying to him that you're gonna pay him some money
and him saying, "Okay. That sounds good."
And you say, "No worries, dude. You still do great work.
You just got a lot on your plate and I'm in a time crunch."
No, it was not good. I just--I didn't know to the extent of how bad it was
because once I actually had someone come in to fix the electric,
I realized all the hazards he did.
It's not the right wire that needs to be in there.
It needs to be...
How long have you been working as a handyman?
Six years, never had a problem.
Now this bicycle here, this would be 04P414.
Can we see that?
They're saying that you broke that bike.
No, Your Honor.
He texted me two days after I hadn't showed up to the job
saying that his bike was broken like that and he found it like that,
when he had other foreign contractors there too as well.
Did you have other people there?
- It was two days... - Nobody had been in there at the time
because my wife had just gone through surgery.
We weren't gonna live there until all-- you know, everything was done.
And so we were staying at the other house.
So those two days he weren't there,
we also weren't there, we were somewhere else.
[Judge DiMango] So you don't know who did that?
I know that we didn't. I can say that.
And he's saying he didn't and you don't have any evidence.
It's your burden of proof.
And second, you had another home
and you went and stayed there, and yet you're asking for a $1,000 rent.
We don't--didn't own the other home, we were renting.
[Daniel] We didn't own the other home.
I think you might have unrealistically given yourself the expectation that
you were going to be done within a week.
But you do have a countersuit here and that countersuit is for slander.
You put up a picture.
Let's see the last thing here, which is the Facebook fan.
[Daniel] That was me.
- [Judge DiMango] That was you? - [Daniel] I was being petty. I'm sorry.
I was gonna say, you took a lot of time to make this fake fan.
I thought it was funny because--so...
[Judge DiMango] What do you do for a living?
I'm a Marine.
- Are you still in active duty? - [Daniel] I'm with the Marines.
- And what do you do, ma'am? - I'm a civil engineer.
[Judge DiMango] So you didn't help build this?
- [Daniel] No. - [laughter]
No, so what had happened was...
[Judge DiMango] You didn't help build that fan with the flashlight in it
to make fun of the defendant? That wasn't very nice.
So we're from a very small town and we're plugged into that town
so we were just letting people know like, "Hey, just so you know, this is a..."
- [Judge DiMango] Don't go with him. - Don't go with him.
- [Judge DiMango] We didn't like his work. - Hundred percent.
You know, if somebody doesn't like your job,
they can tell you that.
They could say, "You stink. You're lousy.
You do an absolutely awful job.
You're the worst and I'm gonna tell everybody
that's ever gonna hire you not to hire you."
And that doesn't really amount to slander.
That's just a business problem that you have
if you're not doing your job as expected.
I got one more thing to state to you, Your Honor.
That was my flashlight and my battery as well.
I had to call the cops to come get it
and he also didn't wanna give me back my battery
- saying it was his and other tools. - [Daniel] That's not true.
[Judge DiMango] But you did get everything back,
- didn't you? - No, I did not, Your Honor.
Well, then I do have a report here, now that you bring it up.
The police report...
I only got the flashlight, not with the battery.
... picked up all of his belongings.
Nothing is left at the residence.
[Allen] No, I didn't. The police officers and them,
didn't wanna let me go on the house.
The police officer didn't wanna search.
He said that that battery was his.
Obviously, as you can see on the photo right there
where my flashlight is painted white...
[Judge DiMango] You did use it on this picture.
- You still have it? - [Daniel] No.
He literally said, "I'm coming to get my flashlight."
I said, "Fine, bring the cops."
Cops showed up before him, then he rolled up and I said,
"Look, here's his flashlight, whatever." She took it to him, he's...
[Judge DiMango] Well, it is--let me say this.
It's possible somebody else that was working in the house took it.
No, they didn't overlap. The only...
Nobody ever overlapped?
[Daniel] ... the only person that overlapped with him
were the flooring that came up...
- [Judge DiMango] So somebody did overlap. - Your Honor?
But they take measurements. They don't have any tools.
[Judge DiMango] But somebody did. It doesn't mean they don't steal.
Judge Levy.
[Judge Levy] One of you is playing fast and loose
with this idea of a handyman versus a contractor.
Because you know you can go to jail
for performing home improvements without a license, right?
Yes, Your Honor.
[Judge Levy] Because one of the rules in the state
is that a handyman is not allowed to charge more than $500 for a job.
So when you gave the plaintiff the invoice for the total work,
nothing prevented you from breaking it down,
500, 450, 350, 250, right?
Yes, Your Honor.
[Judge Levy] So objectively,
what everyone else sees is that the job that you quoted him
was $1,400 in violation of the statute, right?
- Yes, Your Honor. - [Judge Levy] Good.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
His wife sent a Cash App request with the description of "Ha, ha, ha."
Sir, why is your wife taunting her and why the note?
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Daniel and Elizabeth Bevan are suing handyman Allen Thomsen
for $8,800 over hazardous and incomplete work.
Allen says the plaintiff stole his tools
then defamed him,
so he's countersuing for $3,300.
[Judge Levy] This is your card, right? Your business card?
Yes.
And that's the business card that you saw?
That's the one we found in the local hardware store.
[Judge Levy] Right, Alpha Handyman Services,
remodeling, plumbing, electrical.
And there's nothing on this business card that says not licensed.
All I know is that you advertise as handyman,
it doesn't say you're a contractor.
As long as you don't put construction or contractor,
then you're not advertising as licensed.
- Hmm, really? - [Allen] That's what I know of.
- That's your understanding? - [Allen] Yes, Your Honor.
How long have you been doing this work?
Like I said, for six years on my own.
- [Judge Levy] Six years on your own? - Yes.
Let me explain to you what the law is in your area.
Business code, advertising by unlicensed persons,
that's you, makes it a misdemeanor,
punishable by $1,000 fine to advertise for construction work
for which you do not hold a license,
classification for the work you're advertising.
And business cards are included in the definition of advertising.
Is this the first time you're hearing this, Mister I've-done-this-for-six-years?
- Yes, Your Honor. - [Judge Levy] Really?
Let's talk about that counterclaim of yours,
because you say that you're looking for $300 for tools.
Not a flashlight.
Yes, because I'm missing tools, Your Honor.
[Judge Levy] That's what you wrote.
What the police said is, reporting party, that's you,
doing construction work for resident
who is refusing to allow RP, you,
to collect his tools from LOC is location?
Yes.
RP, you, at 12:08 p.m.,
this is what they wrote, "Picked up all of his belongings.
Nothing is left at the residence."
So explain to me why the police lied in their report.
Well, they--he said that he got--
he got--he gave me all my tools, so they're just going off
- of what he said. They... - [Judge Levy] Really?
Yes. That's why the police started doing...
[Judge Levy] Really? Okay, great.
So now, you leave with what you say are not all your tools.
And you're like, "Oh, man, I don't have all my tools."
Your fingers still work, right?
- You still got a phone, right? - [Allen] Uh-hmm.
Nothing prevented you from picking up your phone and saying,
"Hi, Mr. 911, Ms. 911,
yeah, you guys were just here, and you got my tools back,
but I didn't get all my tools back." You didn't do that, did you?
I told them that it wasn't all my tools, Your Honor.
So here is--
so here is your counterclaim.
You lie about one thing,
that's what I do with your counterclaim. I'm done.
- The thing is, Your Honor, I'm not lying. - [Judge Levy] I'm done.
[Judge Acker] Mr. Bevan, I wanna talk for a moment
about your harassment claim against this defendant.
You're suing him for $490 for harassment.
- Yes, Your Honor. - [Judge Acker] What was it?
So what happened was, when I left for physical therapy,
he stiff-armed my wife for, like, a deposit
on a job he convinced us that we needed,
because all this extra work he said I added...
When you say stiff-armed, you mean strong-armed,
he pushed her into paying more money?
He was like, "Hey, your husband owes me $300 deposit for this."
[Judge Acker] You weren't there, correct?
- [Daniel] I was not there. - You were there, ma'am.
She texted me and said, "Hey, I paid him for something..."
- No, no. I wanna hear from her. - [Daniel] Sorry.
So I wasn't normally on the jobsite
because I work in office
and the one day I had off because he had a doctor's appointment.
And he was supposed to be finishing up the job
and just being able to move on
so we can get the other people in and finish the home.
And that I owed him $300 as a deposit
to start a whole another project,
even though he wasn't finished with the other one.
[Judge Acker] Wait. This is the circumstance
that you described as harassment?
[Daniel] No, Your Honor.
After everything had been done
and the police had already came to the house,
weeks and days and everything had gone by,
his wife sent a Cash App request
for another $300 with the description of "Ha, ha, ha."
We didn't respond, and she did it how many times?
It popped up like two or three times.
Two--can we put that up, please? Exhibit 6.
[Daniel] If she had requested from me, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.
So your issue was that she was directing these items to your wife.
The fact that it was bothering my wife is what...
It was directed to you, ma'am.
I have thin skin. I am...
[Judge Acker] Well, I wanna-- not only do you have thin skin
but, sir, why is your wife taunting her for payment requests
that they don't believe that you're entitled to?
Why did this happen and why the note?
That's because they were making fun of my stuff, so my wife saw that,
so she's just trying to be, like how he said, petty back.
You're talking about the fan with the flowers.
Yeah, the fan and all that, so she was being petty back.
- Super petty. - So listen, he just admitted,
super petty.
- That's not money. - [Allen] Yeah, I know.
[Judge Acker] It's not money. That's typical being petty.
Your Honor, they also with the $300, as you can see on page 30--or 56,
you'll see that they've been-- they took $300 from my wife's Cash App.
$300 for wiring, is that what you said?
For the HVAC work to start the two days that I did work there
and ran all the wiring through the attic and everything
and I supplied a hundred fifty feet of wiring as well to the property.
[Judge Acker] And then they took it back?
They took it back.
So Mr. and Mrs. Bevan, I'd like you to respond to that.
So if you can see in the text message I sent him,
I didn't wanna pay him the $300 that he got from my wife
for the deposit for the HVAC job because there were parts not done.
I've had an electrician come out
because those outlets that he's done don't work still to this day.
And I had an electrician come out and check the ceiling,
the roof which he was wiring up for HVAC,
and this is what makes me the most mad.
He used the wrong wire, apparently run the wrong way
and it's high voltage wire.
If you have wire that's just wound up and it's just too long,
it just heats up and burns.
So he ran 60 extra feet of high voltage line
that was just coiled up over my daughter's room.
[Judge Acker] That's really helpful.
Thank you all for your testimony. I have nothing further.
I have a couple of questions because you're asking for--
the big money ticket here for you is $4,000
for permits and for a new contractor.
But why should he be responsible for paying $4,000 for permits?
Because now we have to have someone come in and actually do all the electrical
and apparently we have to have permits for the--
because it's done to an addition on the house.
But he didn't frame out the walls for you. He just sheetrocked them.
He can't pull permits.
He advertised pretty clearly he was a handyman.
And I'm going to, I believe, disagree
with Judge Levy's interpretation of that statute
where it says you need a license
for holding yourself out to do a particular job.
And I believe if you're gonna say I'm an electrician,
you do need a license to say that.
So I think there that might be something we need to discuss
because I'm not sure he stepped over that line
to fall into the interpretation that Judge Levy gives it.
I do give it that same interpretation
but I'm not sure it works on those facts here.
Ooh, spicy deliberation we're gonna have.
You think? I don't know. Maybe.
The job he never completed, you're asking for $2,400.
I'm not sure where you got that number.
- You said he charged you $1,400. - [Daniel] That's all...
Even if he didn't do what you said, why is it $2,400?
That's all we could prove as far as materials and stuff
because all the sanding and everything he says he's done,
the walls are like stucco, like...
Okay. I have no further questions.
Yeah, I'm gonna go through this real quick.
So we're clear, a C10 electrical contractor
is an electrical contractor places, installs,
connects any electrical wires,
fixtures, appliances, apparatus, conduits.
That's a C10. You're not a C10, right?
No, Your Honor.
[Judge Levy] Do you have any idea what happens
when you use the wrong gauge wire and then you turn on the circuit?
- What happens? - I know what happens, Your Honor.
- [Judge Levy] What happens? - [Allen] A fire.
A fire.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
At the worst, it would be 1,400 if we were to give it all back.
First of all, that makes a lot of sense.
- Oh, thank you. - [laughing]
I have a business card that says I make--
I make sense, although I'm unlicensed to say that.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Daniel and Elizabeth Bevan are suing handyman Allen Thomsen
for $8,800 over hazardous and incomplete work.
Allen says the plaintiff stole his tools then defamed him,
so he's countersuing for $3,300.
You wired thermostats to power and pumps.
You ran all wiring and pulled out the vent connected to the A/C
and connected the swamp cooler.
You need a license for that.
You can kill yourself.
You hold yourself out.
According to that business card,
as someone who could be a licensed contractor
because you do not specifically indicate on it that you're not licensed.
That's why what you did, in my opinion, gets you nothing.
I have nothing further.
Can I just one very quick follow-up for the defendant?
As part of your counterclaim, you say that that petty picture
that the plaintiff posted-- petty picture that the plaintiff posted
caused you to lose $2,500
of an existing and potential customer business.
Any evidence of that?
I have a client that I used to work for.
I work for her again now but at the time, she didn't hire me
for a whole month straight until she figured out everything...
But you just said--you just said you work for her again now?
- [Allen] Yeah, but I've lost... - So you're not damaged.
- You're not damaged. - [Allen] Okay.
I'm finished. Thank you.
We are going to retire to deliberate at this time.
- Thank you all. - Court now stands in recess.
Parties are excused.
[dramatic musical sting]
Well, I'm gonna start with the countersuit.
I don't believe that he was slandered.
I believe that they didn't like his work and that's what they said,
and so I don't think he has a cause of action there.
With regard to the tools, it seems pretty clear
that when he went to the home, the police finished a report
saying that he had gotten all his things.
In fact, he is just mistaken or outright lying.
Either way, we're gonna dismiss.
The other issues are, one, was he implying that he's licensed
on his business card that says he's a handyman
and can do the following litany of tasks?
And the second thing is whether or not if that's the case,
he could charge what he was charging which was $1,400 for, let's just say,
three different types of work that he was doing, the sheetrocking,
the outlets and sockets, and the installation of the fans.
I think he's on a fringe by saying handyman, which he makes clear.
It's in bold print and I can do these things. He can.
So with regard to that, I'm not gonna push to say he's criminally responsible.
However, what I do wanna go through is what the plaintiff's asking for.
I don't see any evidence that it was $4,000 in permits.
I didn't see any evidence
that he was the one that broke the bicycle.
I don't see any evidence that they were moving out sooner,
that they gave anybody notice that they were moving out
and that they were paying a $1,000 a month.
With regard to the harassment,
don't see any harassment in the picture that says, "ha, ha, ha"
or, you know, anything along those lines.
And even if we wanna say he didn't complete the job,
which he admits he didn't complete,
although he's blaming them for that,
it certainly doesn't amount to $2,400.
At the worst, it would be 1,400 if we were to give it all back.
First of all, that makes a lot of sense.
- Oh, thank you. - [laughing]
I have a business card that says I make--
I make sense, although I'm unlicensed to say that.
As far as your analysis, I agree with you.
But every nickel that was paid by the plaintiff to the defendant
I believe must be returned,
to the extent that there are other expenses
that now come to fruition to undo
what the defendant did by way of paying someone else
to run new wiring, because the old wiring was wrong.
I believe that the plaintiff would be entitled to those monies.
[Judge Acker] And I agree with that analysis.
He overstepped in terms of the work he did.
He charged more than the $500.
He didn't have on his business card that he was unlicensed.
I mean, you know in this jurisdiction in particular,
if somebody is licensed, they have a little license number on the card
so that you know you're dealing with somebody who knows what they're doing.
This kid did not.
I would return to them all of the money that they paid him
because he had no business getting this gig in the first place.
He had no business taking on the work.
So we're all at that $2,400 number.
It's just a matter of what, if anything, we each think
they should get, if at all, from that number.
But aren't we all on board
with simply returning them the money that...
- The 1,400. - ... they paid him, the 1,400-plus.
There is in fact evidence
- that they paid another $1,000. - [Judge Levy] Yes.
In order to remedy the HVAC work, so there's his $2,400.
- Yes. - So I don't have a problem
with the HVAC.
That he can't do. That's indisputable.
So that $1,000 I think absolutely goes back.
With regard to the 1,400,
I'm not willing to say he was unlicensed,
he could not do four outlets, install ceiling fans.
He could do that.
But I found them credible because whatever he installed
- did not work. - But that's different then.
- Those four outlets did not work. - Okay.
That's a different story. I can buy that they didn't work.
So along with the shoddy job and the 1,000
that it took him for where he was unlicensed,
I could live with the $2,400 returned and nothing else.
Dismiss the counterclaim in its entirety.
- Right on. Adjourned. - Very good.
[dramatic musical sting]
[Byrd] Court is back in session.
I remind parties you're still under oath.
- Thank you, Byrd. - [Byrd] Uh-hmm.
We're gonna start with the simplest part of the case
and that, sir, was your counterclaim.
Nothing that they said amounted to anything
more than just bad reviews of your work.
And the tools, the only thing we can actually rely on is the police report
which says that all the tools, everything was returned to you.
So, based on that, we're dismissing your counterclaim.
Now that brings us to your complaint.
You asked for several different things.
The simplest one to address was the bicycle.
Bottom line is we don't have any credible evidence that
it was in fact the defendant who damaged your little boy's bike.
With regard to the harassment, you all did silly angry things.
You all taunted one another,
but it wasn't tantamount to harassment for either side.
With regard to where you lived, you were there.
We didn't see any evidence of how much you were paying,
when your lease was up,
whether or not you gave notice and were a holdover tenant.
So with regard to that $1,000,
we are not going to award you that either.
With regard to permits, you would've needed those $4,000 in permits
regardless of who did what work,
so we're not giving you that.
So we come to the $2,400.
We believe the following, one,
that you did work beyond the purview of your handyman status
by taking on the HVAC job
even though they might've asked you.
That's a no.
So with regard to that $1,000, you would get that back.
And as to the $1,400 that you charged for your job
where you were unlicensed, they would be entitled to get that back.
So the verdict then is in your favor for $2,400
and your case is dismissed.
- [gavel bangs] - Thank you, Your Honor.
[Byrd] This case has now concluded.
Parties are excused. You may step out.
[theme music plays]
Their timeframe wasn't up-to-date
when they kept on adding more and more projects
and that--ever since then,
that's when they started having a headache.
Without any better words, we gave an [bleep] window,
like hey, you know, we messed up.
Here's your [bleep] window and he was well past it.
Yeah. All I needed was two more days.
Legit just two more days.
Well, I still have to undo everything he did.
You just can't please everyone.
Don't hire Allen.
[announcer] Did someone destroy your property?
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.
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["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]