1 00:00:06,467 --> 00:00:08,066 You own a cleaning business. 2 00:00:08,132 --> 00:00:09,266 Right. That's correct. 3 00:00:09,333 --> 00:00:11,433 There's different protocols you have to follow. 4 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:13,233 She didn't wanna follow the directions, 5 00:00:13,300 --> 00:00:14,967 like, uh, four different occasions 6 00:00:15,033 --> 00:00:16,834 - where she didn't show up. - Never. 7 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:18,700 You said multiple times you didn't show up, 8 00:00:18,767 --> 00:00:20,033 they didn't show up, they didn't show up. 9 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:21,367 It was several times, Your Honor. 10 00:00:21,433 --> 00:00:24,300 The problem is that it's one thing to say something 11 00:00:24,367 --> 00:00:26,133 and it's another thing to prove it. 12 00:00:26,667 --> 00:00:29,567 [[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice. 13 00:00:29,633 --> 00:00:33,133 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 14 00:00:51,066 --> 00:00:54,500 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Palm Springs, California. 15 00:00:54,967 --> 00:00:57,033 [Byrd] Your Honor, this is case number 2047 16 00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,767 on the calendar in the matter of Swain versus Rios. 17 00:00:59,834 --> 00:01:02,500 The parties have been sworn in. You may be seated. 18 00:01:02,567 --> 00:01:03,667 [Judge Acker] Thank you, Byrd. 19 00:01:03,734 --> 00:01:07,133 - Ms. Swain, you own a cleaning business. - Yes, I am. 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,166 [Judge Acker] You originally worked with the defendant 21 00:01:09,233 --> 00:01:10,967 - and cleaned his own home. - [Maricela] Yes. 22 00:01:11,033 --> 00:01:12,533 [Judge Acker] According to your complaint, 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,800 after you started working for the defendant personally 24 00:01:15,867 --> 00:01:18,367 then you started working for this property group, 25 00:01:18,433 --> 00:01:21,265 uh, for which he's a quality control executive 26 00:01:21,333 --> 00:01:23,567 or officer and a designer. 27 00:01:23,633 --> 00:01:27,100 And you maintain that he terminated your services, 28 00:01:27,166 --> 00:01:29,633 - owing you over $3,000. - Right. That's correct. 29 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:31,834 Gave you many excuses and never paid. 30 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:32,967 [Maricela] Right. That's correct. 31 00:01:33,033 --> 00:01:36,265 Mr. Rios, you say that she just didn't do a good job. 32 00:01:36,333 --> 00:01:38,467 In fact, you had to do some of the cleaning 33 00:01:38,533 --> 00:01:42,166 and that she's in fact trying to get money for services she never rendered. 34 00:01:42,233 --> 00:01:44,066 You maintain you owe her nothing. 35 00:01:44,133 --> 00:01:45,400 That is correct. 36 00:01:45,467 --> 00:01:48,200 These are luxury rentals in Palm Springs. 37 00:01:48,265 --> 00:01:49,366 In the millions. 38 00:01:49,433 --> 00:01:50,800 [Judge Acker] They're beautiful. 39 00:01:50,866 --> 00:01:52,800 Can we put up exhibit seven? 40 00:01:53,233 --> 00:01:54,600 Rio Ranch. 41 00:01:54,667 --> 00:01:57,633 I just wanna show people some of these photos. 42 00:01:57,700 --> 00:01:59,333 - It's gorgeous. - [David] Thank you. 43 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,033 [Judge Acker] There's a property called Blush. 44 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:02,600 - [David] That is correct. - [Judge Acker] Let's look at exhibit 11. 45 00:02:02,667 --> 00:02:03,934 Let's look at Blush. 46 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,300 I mean, these were serious high end properties. 47 00:02:06,367 --> 00:02:08,333 How much are you renting these for each night? 48 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,467 [David] Uh, they go from the average, from $700 to $2,000 a night. 49 00:02:11,533 --> 00:02:13,834 [Judge Acker] So how long did you work with the plaintiff 50 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:16,934 before you brought her into this other property management? 51 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,266 I wanna say about three or four years now. 52 00:02:19,333 --> 00:02:21,734 I'm--she's been working with me on my personal resident 53 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,433 and other properties that I had 54 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:24,934 and she did a fabulous job. 55 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,500 [Judge Acker] Which is why he brought you into this other venture. 56 00:02:27,567 --> 00:02:28,567 - [Maricela] Right. - [Judge Acker] How many houses 57 00:02:28,633 --> 00:02:29,934 were you responsible for? 58 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,500 The beautiful homes that we saw, and were there any others? 59 00:02:32,567 --> 00:02:35,767 Normally four on the [unintelligible]. 60 00:02:35,834 --> 00:02:39,867 um, management and three on his side. 61 00:02:39,934 --> 00:02:43,100 You started working with the property management group in April, 62 00:02:43,166 --> 00:02:44,767 - as I understand it. - In April. Right. 63 00:02:44,834 --> 00:02:47,767 [Judge Acker] How much did you charge per home? 64 00:02:47,834 --> 00:02:51,200 Uh, for the Rancho, I was charging $280. 65 00:02:51,266 --> 00:02:53,934 That doesn't include the, uh, laundry. 66 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,767 [Judge Acker] You have a team of people, 67 00:02:55,834 --> 00:02:57,333 - so do you go out with your team... - [Maricela] Yes. 68 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:58,567 [Judge Acker] ... and do these properties? 69 00:02:58,633 --> 00:02:59,633 Most of the time. 70 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:01,667 - Sometimes you send them alone. - [Maricela] Right. 71 00:03:01,734 --> 00:03:03,033 - And they report back to you. - [Maricela] Right. 72 00:03:03,100 --> 00:03:05,333 That's an important point that is going to come up later. 73 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,266 I know that you have an issue with the way some of these services were completed. 74 00:03:09,333 --> 00:03:12,900 So, Mr. Rios, one of the things that you say is that, look, 75 00:03:12,967 --> 00:03:15,066 she did a great job for a while, 76 00:03:15,133 --> 00:03:17,500 but from May to September 77 00:03:17,567 --> 00:03:19,900 during which she worked for the larger venture, 78 00:03:19,966 --> 00:03:21,100 there's some little glitches. 79 00:03:21,166 --> 00:03:23,734 I know there was a bed that was made without sheets 80 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,867 and I guess a guest wrote you and said, 81 00:03:25,934 --> 00:03:28,066 "Hi, there are no sheets on this bed." 82 00:03:28,133 --> 00:03:30,266 And you told her and you're like, "Look, let me know 83 00:03:30,333 --> 00:03:32,133 if there aren't sheets on the bed." 84 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,667 That seemed like a big lapse. 85 00:03:34,734 --> 00:03:38,367 Now, you and your team certainly know that if you're cleaning properties, 86 00:03:38,433 --> 00:03:40,200 much less high end properties-- 87 00:03:40,266 --> 00:03:41,633 I don't care what kind of property it is-- 88 00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:43,500 - People want sheets on the bed. - Right. 89 00:03:43,567 --> 00:03:46,633 And the problem is because they were not extras. 90 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:48,767 - I was doing the... - What do you mean they were not extras? 91 00:03:48,834 --> 00:03:51,966 No. Usually what I do because it's not my first Airbnb. 92 00:03:52,033 --> 00:03:55,133 I've been doing this business for more than 15 years 93 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,000 and they have always extra towels, 94 00:03:58,066 --> 00:04:02,633 extra, uh, sheets, extra supplies for me to finish everything, 95 00:04:02,700 --> 00:04:05,066 - but with his case, never happened. - [Judge Acker] You ask them. 96 00:04:05,133 --> 00:04:06,900 You said, "I don't have any extra sheets." 97 00:04:06,967 --> 00:04:08,467 - [Maricela] That never happened. - There are no extra towels. 98 00:04:08,533 --> 00:04:10,700 - [Maricela] Exactly. - And this is to you, Mr. Rios, 99 00:04:10,767 --> 00:04:14,000 because I note that in your answer you say, 100 00:04:14,066 --> 00:04:16,233 - "She wasn't even doing the laundry." - Correct. 101 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:17,934 But as I read the evidence, 102 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,132 there was never any suggestion that she should have been doing the laundry. 103 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,233 - You were at the laundromat. - That is correct. 104 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:25,734 And never did you say--I didn't see anything where you said, 105 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,700 "Hey, Maricela. I need you to, like, step up the laundry." 106 00:04:28,767 --> 00:04:31,767 Like you instead taking pictures of yourself at the Laundromat. 107 00:04:31,834 --> 00:04:33,033 - Exactly. - [Judge Acker] So it seemed like 108 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:35,767 your beef is less with her, 109 00:04:35,834 --> 00:04:39,033 with respect to the laundry, but with respect to your partners. 110 00:04:39,100 --> 00:04:41,600 Tell me where I'm wrong and then I'm gonna tell you why I think I'm right. 111 00:04:41,667 --> 00:04:43,033 Yeah. So it's quite the opposite. 112 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:46,500 So as going to these properties, not only were they plentiful 113 00:04:46,567 --> 00:04:49,967 with a variety of extras of every single thing you could think of, 114 00:04:50,033 --> 00:04:52,600 the problem that we had is, when we're coming to these properties, 115 00:04:52,667 --> 00:04:55,600 some of the rooms are black sheets, some of them are hot pinks, 116 00:04:55,667 --> 00:04:57,767 some of them are pink, some of them are bright white. 117 00:04:57,834 --> 00:05:00,700 What I was noticing, you're gonna not believe--I mean, this is insane. 118 00:05:00,767 --> 00:05:03,066 In a rush, she would mix-- 119 00:05:03,133 --> 00:05:07,000 her staff, I'm sorry, would mix hot pinks with blacks, 120 00:05:07,066 --> 00:05:08,767 the whites were coming out for pinks 121 00:05:08,834 --> 00:05:12,333 and we're talking about $300, $400 [unintelligible] alone. 122 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,133 So I took that task from her. 123 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,533 After five times of this happening, 124 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,467 I took a hundred percent of the laundry. 125 00:05:19,533 --> 00:05:20,967 [Judge Acker] So at what point was this? 126 00:05:21,033 --> 00:05:23,600 Because during the 105 pages 127 00:05:23,667 --> 00:05:25,934 of text messages that she submitted, 128 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,667 I didn't see any mention of you saying you have mixed up the sheets, 129 00:05:29,734 --> 00:05:32,033 - I now have to do the job. - [David] That is correct. 130 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:34,200 [Judge Acker] But I have to say to you, 131 00:05:34,266 --> 00:05:38,233 I cannot fathom why it would not be within the purview 132 00:05:38,300 --> 00:05:41,500 of somebody who's being paid good amounts of money 133 00:05:41,567 --> 00:05:43,933 to come clean these properties, to do sheets. 134 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,266 I just haven't heard of that. 135 00:05:45,332 --> 00:05:49,467 So is it your testimony that you were not responsible to do any washing? 136 00:05:49,533 --> 00:05:52,133 No. In the beginning, that's why I charged $280 137 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,033 because the agreement was not to do the laundry. 138 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:56,933 He was supposed to do all the laundry 139 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,400 and I was supposed to be just cleaning in and out the property. 140 00:06:00,467 --> 00:06:02,300 So my process changed 141 00:06:02,367 --> 00:06:05,767 when I--they start adding more things to my task 142 00:06:05,834 --> 00:06:07,934 like cleaning, um, the patio 143 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,867 because he put a tile on the patio, so I got to be... 144 00:06:10,934 --> 00:06:12,700 [Judge Acker] That's another question I have for you 145 00:06:12,767 --> 00:06:15,934 because one of the things that the defendant complains about 146 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,500 is that there was no real consistency in your pricing. 147 00:06:18,567 --> 00:06:21,467 I imagine that you and your team 148 00:06:21,533 --> 00:06:23,567 are reviewing these properties 149 00:06:23,633 --> 00:06:25,934 and quoting a price for cleaning the whole property. 150 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,467 I mean, you weren't paying her to clean by room, were you? 151 00:06:28,533 --> 00:06:29,533 - [David] No, not at all. - [Maricela] No. 152 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,567 Well, with him, I charged my--I give that price in the beginning 153 00:06:33,633 --> 00:06:38,100 doing the house, uh, and refreshing the rooms for the new customers. 154 00:06:38,166 --> 00:06:40,667 So, uh, the price changed of course 155 00:06:40,734 --> 00:06:42,533 because he start adding things to my... 156 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,600 But when you say adding things, 157 00:06:44,667 --> 00:06:46,800 now adding laundry may be a thing 158 00:06:46,867 --> 00:06:50,800 because according to the text messages I saw, he was doing a lot of it. 159 00:06:50,867 --> 00:06:54,033 His testimony, he says he talked to you about some things 160 00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:56,300 that may not be reflected in these messages. 161 00:06:56,367 --> 00:06:58,834 So I just wanna bracket laundry for a second. 162 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:01,266 Here's something else that I'm a little unclear on. 163 00:07:01,333 --> 00:07:04,066 Can we put up exhibit one, plaintiff's ledger? 164 00:07:04,133 --> 00:07:07,834 Because I noticed, ma'am, that you submitted this handwritten ledger. 165 00:07:07,900 --> 00:07:10,734 Now, did you generate this document 166 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,533 - in preparation for your lawsuit? - [Maricela] Right. 167 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,500 That I have it in my phone 168 00:07:15,567 --> 00:07:18,500 to prove that every time that I was requesting payment, 169 00:07:18,567 --> 00:07:20,433 I always send my notes. 170 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:21,600 [Judge Acker] Where are those invoices? 171 00:07:21,667 --> 00:07:24,000 Because that's the best way of saying, 172 00:07:24,066 --> 00:07:27,667 "Hey, I cleaned Rios Ranch on this day. 173 00:07:27,734 --> 00:07:28,734 You still owe me this." 174 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,834 I never saw invoices. So how can you help me there? 175 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:33,933 Well, that was my mistake because I didn't make invoice for him. 176 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,266 - I trust... - [Judge Acker] It's a big mistake. 177 00:07:35,332 --> 00:07:38,734 It's a big mistake. Now, I will say this to you, Mr. Rios. 178 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,767 She's asking for money, and what I don't see in your responses 179 00:07:42,834 --> 00:07:44,266 are, "Hey, you know what? 180 00:07:44,332 --> 00:07:47,166 I think that you're way overcharging. 181 00:07:47,233 --> 00:07:48,400 Let's talk about this." 182 00:07:48,467 --> 00:07:49,633 Why is that missing? 183 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:53,834 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 184 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:55,467 She would say she showed up to a property 185 00:07:55,533 --> 00:07:58,233 and then she cleaned it the following day when it was a whole another company. 186 00:07:58,300 --> 00:07:59,667 [dramatic musical sting] 187 00:08:01,767 --> 00:08:03,500 [theme music plays] 188 00:08:03,567 --> 00:08:05,834 [announcer] Maricela Swain is suing David Rios 189 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:09,266 for over $3,000 owed in cleaning services 190 00:08:09,333 --> 00:08:11,133 performed at luxury properties, 191 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,934 but David claims Maricela is confused 192 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,900 because of her own poor bookkeeping 193 00:08:15,967 --> 00:08:18,967 and resistance to using a scheduling app. 194 00:08:19,033 --> 00:08:21,734 [Judge Acker] She's asking for money, and what I don't see 195 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,767 in your responses are, "Hey, you know what? 196 00:08:24,834 --> 00:08:27,367 I think that you're way overcharging. 197 00:08:27,433 --> 00:08:30,066 Let's talk about this." Why is that missing? 198 00:08:30,133 --> 00:08:32,000 [David] So a lot of things are missing because I said, 199 00:08:32,066 --> 00:08:34,633 look, you're not just gonna be working for me no more. 200 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:37,332 You're gonna be working for a corporation and several of them. 201 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,600 I have three different companies that you're gonna be working with 202 00:08:39,667 --> 00:08:42,265 on a plethora of 13 different houses. 203 00:08:42,332 --> 00:08:44,300 There's different protocols you have to follow. 204 00:08:44,367 --> 00:08:45,900 She didn't wanna follow the directions. 205 00:08:45,967 --> 00:08:47,767 - I said you have to send the invoices. - You had a platform 206 00:08:47,834 --> 00:08:49,033 - where you could go on... - Yes. 207 00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:50,165 [Judge Acker] ... and see the houses? No, I saw that. 208 00:08:50,233 --> 00:08:51,834 - Sixty pictures. - [Judge Acker] There was a platform 209 00:08:51,900 --> 00:08:54,133 and you said, "I'm a professional. I don't need that platform." 210 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,200 Uh-hmm. Yeah. 211 00:08:55,266 --> 00:08:56,266 [David] That was the biggest problem we had. 212 00:08:56,333 --> 00:08:57,333 [Judge Acker] I'm gonna pass the case, 213 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:58,734 but this one I kinda got a kick out off. 214 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,066 Can we put up exhibit six? 215 00:09:01,133 --> 00:09:02,934 Tell me about this picture, sir. 216 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,767 I did. And I was quite upset with her. 217 00:09:04,834 --> 00:09:07,500 First of all, um, she said she has cleaned that specific property... 218 00:09:07,567 --> 00:09:08,600 [Judge Acker] Which of the properties is that? 219 00:09:08,667 --> 00:09:10,800 [David] Escape Island. It's a $3 million estate, 220 00:09:10,867 --> 00:09:13,333 - two acres. I mean... - Escape. These names. 221 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,567 So you have somebody checking in to Escape Island. 222 00:09:16,633 --> 00:09:19,133 You find out that Escape Island hasn't been cleaned. 223 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:20,834 - Exactly. I'm doing quality control. - [Judge Acker] And you clean it. 224 00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:23,333 And instead of sending her a note saying, 225 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:24,900 "Why didn't you clean this?" 226 00:09:24,967 --> 00:09:26,567 - You send her the picture. - Exactly. 227 00:09:26,633 --> 00:09:28,100 [Judge Acker] And you were like, "Yes, I love it." 228 00:09:28,166 --> 00:09:30,834 Not realizing that he actually did the work. 229 00:09:30,900 --> 00:09:32,033 He set you up. 230 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:33,533 [David] And she still billed for that. 231 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,500 My problem with him is because they have another company 232 00:09:37,567 --> 00:09:39,066 - besides me. - [Judge Acker] Hang on, hang on, hang on. 233 00:09:39,133 --> 00:09:40,800 You may have many other problems. 234 00:09:40,867 --> 00:09:42,967 - I'm concerned about this problem. - Yeah, I think that's the problem... 235 00:09:43,033 --> 00:09:46,900 And the fact that you seemingly may have billed for something 236 00:09:46,967 --> 00:09:50,000 that he did, and more preliminarily, 237 00:09:50,066 --> 00:09:53,066 I'm concerned about the fact that I just don't see your invoices. 238 00:09:53,133 --> 00:09:54,200 Judge DiMango. 239 00:09:54,266 --> 00:09:57,700 Now, I'm sure you're not going to each of the places that are being cleaned. 240 00:09:57,767 --> 00:10:01,433 And so you probably have women that work with you or men that work with you 241 00:10:01,500 --> 00:10:03,667 that go in and do the cleaning. 242 00:10:03,734 --> 00:10:07,033 So unless you are explaining to all of them 243 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:08,433 what needs to be done, 244 00:10:08,500 --> 00:10:11,266 you're gonna have these problems and it's going to impact 245 00:10:11,333 --> 00:10:13,734 on the amount of money that he gets for each rental. 246 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,567 - You understand that? Right? - Right. I do. 247 00:10:15,633 --> 00:10:18,767 So would she know or would somebody know 248 00:10:18,834 --> 00:10:21,133 what rooms need to be done and which ones don't? 249 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,367 Easy. Every room gets changed. 250 00:10:23,433 --> 00:10:26,266 Every bed, every sheet, every towel, every makeup towel, 251 00:10:26,333 --> 00:10:28,000 I don't even care if it smells good. 252 00:10:28,066 --> 00:10:30,700 You walk into my property, you're gonna get a quality control. 253 00:10:30,767 --> 00:10:34,100 I don't care whether it's gummy bears, the hair stuff, 254 00:10:34,165 --> 00:10:36,133 exteriors of everything has to be on point. 255 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,700 Right. Because you really don't know 256 00:10:37,767 --> 00:10:39,367 and you can't be saying to somebody, 257 00:10:39,433 --> 00:10:41,066 "Yeah, I don't think they slept in that room. 258 00:10:41,133 --> 00:10:42,400 - You could go there instead." - Correct. 259 00:10:42,467 --> 00:10:45,200 Yeah. I mean, that would make the most sense. 260 00:10:45,266 --> 00:10:47,767 Do you get paid by the hour or do you get paid by the job? 261 00:10:47,834 --> 00:10:48,867 - By the job. - [Judge DiMango] You get paid by the job 262 00:10:48,934 --> 00:10:51,467 - and then extras after that? - [Maricela] Ex-exactly. 263 00:10:51,533 --> 00:10:54,233 Do you have a list of towels, sheets, 264 00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:56,500 barbecue grill, deck-- 265 00:10:56,567 --> 00:10:59,233 do you have a list of additional charges for those things? 266 00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:02,567 Yes. Usually when I do laundry, 267 00:11:02,633 --> 00:11:05,500 I charge it from a hundred dollars to two hundred dollars 268 00:11:05,567 --> 00:11:07,166 depends of the size of the property. 269 00:11:07,233 --> 00:11:10,600 But he doesn't know. You see, I think what the problem here is, 270 00:11:10,667 --> 00:11:14,400 is you have a very loose contractual relationship. 271 00:11:14,467 --> 00:11:16,767 Probably based on your years together 272 00:11:16,834 --> 00:11:19,700 of you going to his home doing a few things 273 00:11:19,767 --> 00:11:21,266 and when he walks out, he may say, "All right. 274 00:11:21,333 --> 00:11:22,967 Listen, take care. Have a good day. Oh, by the way, 275 00:11:23,033 --> 00:11:25,867 I left the towels on the thing for you today. Could you do that?" 276 00:11:25,934 --> 00:11:27,633 You know, that kind of communication. 277 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:30,934 That doesn't work when you're handling seven, eight, or nine properties. 278 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,734 - Exactly, everything changes... - [Judge DiMango] It's gonna mix up. 279 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,367 So I could see him not wanting to pay you for things he doesn't really know 280 00:11:36,433 --> 00:11:40,400 what you're doing and for billing him for things that you're not doing. 281 00:11:40,467 --> 00:11:41,867 Bottom line is, however, 282 00:11:41,934 --> 00:11:46,233 she was asking for money and you were saying, "Okay, okay, okay." 283 00:11:46,300 --> 00:11:48,433 So what is it you think you owe her? 284 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:52,433 I don't owe her anything from my behalf or my properties. 285 00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:54,967 What I do feel that is that there's about-- 286 00:11:55,033 --> 00:11:58,133 um, there's a lack of money that wasn't given to her, 287 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,533 and that was only because she didn't know how to read the calendar, I guess. 288 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,400 So she would say she showed up to a property, 289 00:12:03,467 --> 00:12:06,033 and then she cleaned it the following day when it was a whole another company. 290 00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:07,967 And they had arguments with her. 291 00:12:08,033 --> 00:12:11,133 And I said, "Look, the discrepancy is so bad on your notes, 292 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,867 start giving them invoices 'cause you can't say you're there on the 12th 293 00:12:13,934 --> 00:12:16,767 and you're cleaning on the 13th when they had someone clean on the 13th." 294 00:12:16,834 --> 00:12:19,200 And she said, "I'll reject those. I'll take those out." 295 00:12:19,266 --> 00:12:21,734 And we never got those. Those were up to like $2,000 296 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,233 of times that she stated she cleaned and she really didn't. 297 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:26,834 And so I said, "You can't claim that." 298 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:29,233 And I was stuck in the middle. I said, you got... 299 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,834 So are you saying that you're the wrong party for her to be suing here? 300 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:35,233 Yes. I said, "Sue them. They're the ones who are giving you the..." 301 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:36,767 [Judge DiMango] And--okay, I'm gonna hold you there. 302 00:12:36,834 --> 00:12:38,767 Why are you suing him and not Vibe... 303 00:12:38,834 --> 00:12:40,667 Because I never deal with the other people. 304 00:12:40,734 --> 00:12:43,867 He always pay me from his bank account and I have proof here. 305 00:12:43,934 --> 00:12:47,967 Everything that I get from--paid is from his account. 306 00:12:48,033 --> 00:12:49,300 Nothing from the other party. 307 00:12:49,367 --> 00:12:52,133 [Judge DiMango] So why are you paying for the other company's debt? 308 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:56,700 So there's always been this discrepancy of $3,500 that was never paid out. 309 00:12:56,767 --> 00:12:59,233 Wasn't paid to me, it wasn't paid to her. 310 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:01,333 And again, I said, "That goes with your invoicing. 311 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,467 They're paying other cleaning companies that you're stating you're there. 312 00:13:04,533 --> 00:13:06,333 And if you wanted to fight about this, 313 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,567 let's have a meeting." 314 00:13:07,633 --> 00:13:10,500 I've offered like, uh, four different occasions 315 00:13:10,567 --> 00:13:13,433 where she didn't show up where I said, "Let's all get together, you guys, 316 00:13:13,500 --> 00:13:15,233 let's sit down, let's have a conversation." 317 00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:17,667 There are so many different text messages and I said, "Look, everybody, 318 00:13:17,734 --> 00:13:19,100 this is what I've received. 319 00:13:19,166 --> 00:13:20,433 This is what I've given her. 320 00:13:20,500 --> 00:13:23,200 There's still $3,500 that is not accounted for." 321 00:13:23,266 --> 00:13:25,600 And they all said, "Look, she didn't send us an invoice. 322 00:13:25,667 --> 00:13:28,333 We have payments that we paid other people, 323 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,767 and she doesn't wanna go onto that app 324 00:13:30,834 --> 00:13:32,367 to show us that she was actually there." 325 00:13:32,433 --> 00:13:33,433 - [Judge DiMango] All right. - Uh, so I was stuck. 326 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:34,500 - I don't know what else to do. - [Judge DiMango] Thank you. 327 00:13:34,567 --> 00:13:36,200 - Judge Levy. - Mr. Rios, the problem with that 328 00:13:36,266 --> 00:13:38,667 is that you didn't provide us any evidence of that. 329 00:13:38,734 --> 00:13:39,867 Nothing. 330 00:13:39,934 --> 00:13:43,700 And you just testified that you've had these communications with her 331 00:13:43,767 --> 00:13:46,300 in which you've said multiple times you didn't show up. 332 00:13:46,367 --> 00:13:48,767 They didn't show up, they didn't show up, they didn't show up. 333 00:13:48,834 --> 00:13:51,467 The problem is that it's one thing to say something 334 00:13:51,533 --> 00:13:53,100 and it's another thing to prove it. 335 00:13:53,165 --> 00:13:57,834 You gave us one, one text in which she didn't show up 336 00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:59,033 and you said that that was you. 337 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:03,667 But that does not make out a defense for $3,000. 338 00:14:03,734 --> 00:14:05,133 - It was several times, Your Honor. - [Maricela] No. 339 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,266 Several times where I was... 340 00:14:06,333 --> 00:14:08,467 [Judge Levy] The problem is when you say that it's several times, 341 00:14:08,533 --> 00:14:11,433 the natural response is show me. 342 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,633 I hope you understand what I'm saying, Mr. Rios. 343 00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:15,567 - Uh, a portion of it, I do. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 344 00:14:15,633 --> 00:14:17,934 Because, uh, again, we--we've given her ample time 345 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,533 to--uh, again, this was a third company that were managing her directly. 346 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,100 They were--they were giving her the assignment, 347 00:14:23,166 --> 00:14:24,533 - they were conversating with her. - No. 348 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,533 They were paying her. And these are things... 349 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,867 - Whoa, whoa, they were paying her? - [David] Yes. They paid her as well. 350 00:14:28,934 --> 00:14:32,934 No. I never have any payment from anybody, um, just him. 351 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,367 And then the technology that they were using, those apps, 352 00:14:36,433 --> 00:14:38,467 they always send me the wrong dates 353 00:14:38,533 --> 00:14:40,500 and I ended up wasting my time. 354 00:14:40,567 --> 00:14:41,567 [David] Uh, that is incorrect. 355 00:14:41,633 --> 00:14:45,600 The $3,500 that we were always discussing, it's all in written format as well. 356 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:47,800 And I--and I said, all of us put together 357 00:14:47,867 --> 00:14:51,734 because there's a discrepancy of $3,500 that she hasn't been paid. 358 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,900 I haven't been paid. And I said, "And this is--if you're saying this 359 00:14:54,967 --> 00:14:58,600 because you've already paid a second company," and which they did, 360 00:14:58,667 --> 00:14:59,867 and they proved it to her, 361 00:14:59,934 --> 00:15:03,000 um, she needs to adjust her invoices, and she never did. 362 00:15:03,066 --> 00:15:04,200 - [Maricela] No. - She kept sending text messages. 363 00:15:04,266 --> 00:15:06,633 We never discussed anything about it. Never. 364 00:15:07,967 --> 00:15:10,600 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 365 00:15:10,667 --> 00:15:11,734 [Judge Levy] You kept her for your house? 366 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,367 Until they stole from me. 367 00:15:13,433 --> 00:15:15,600 $35,000 of my diamond rings. 368 00:15:15,667 --> 00:15:16,667 - And, again... - What? 369 00:15:16,734 --> 00:15:18,367 [David] ... all she could say is, "I'm sorry, David." 370 00:15:18,433 --> 00:15:19,900 [dramatic musical sting] 371 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,467 [theme music plays] 372 00:15:23,533 --> 00:15:27,166 [announcer] Maricela Swain is suing property manager David Rios 373 00:15:27,233 --> 00:15:30,066 for a balance owed on cleaning services. 374 00:15:30,133 --> 00:15:33,700 But David claims Maricela's cleaning crews were unreliable 375 00:15:33,767 --> 00:15:37,033 and that he was left doing a lot of the cleaning. 376 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:39,533 When I went through the text, it was clear 377 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,967 that she's asking for payment 378 00:15:41,033 --> 00:15:42,533 and your response is, "We're gonna get it to you. 379 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,867 We're gonna get it to you. We're gonna get it to you." 380 00:15:43,934 --> 00:15:46,367 I didn't see any of those texts where it says, you know, 381 00:15:46,433 --> 00:15:48,767 "We gotta sit down about this $3,500." 382 00:15:48,834 --> 00:15:50,433 - Exactly. - [Judge Levy] And I just don't see it. 383 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:52,300 Well, it's in--it's in there. It's in the document that says 384 00:15:52,367 --> 00:15:53,500 she said she has a hundred and something, 385 00:15:53,567 --> 00:15:55,500 um, uh, notations on there. 386 00:15:55,567 --> 00:15:58,834 It says it on there as me saying, "You guys, we need to get together. 387 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:00,767 Let's have a meeting." And then you know her response was... 388 00:16:00,834 --> 00:16:02,166 - [Maricela] I'm sorry. - "... I'm in the hospital. 389 00:16:02,233 --> 00:16:03,233 - I'm sick again." - No. No. 390 00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:04,533 [David] "I'm in the hospital again. I can't do this." 391 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,033 I said, "I'm going to bat for you." 392 00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:08,667 You're not giving them invoices, you're giving this inconsistency. 393 00:16:08,734 --> 00:16:10,900 They're showing proof that they've already paid a third party, 394 00:16:10,967 --> 00:16:12,200 and you want me to come help you out. 395 00:16:12,266 --> 00:16:13,600 I'm doing all I can for her. 396 00:16:13,667 --> 00:16:16,900 So that's--at the end, all she had was my one house left. 397 00:16:16,967 --> 00:16:18,233 I get it. I get it. 398 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:19,867 And you kept her for your house? 399 00:16:19,934 --> 00:16:21,333 Until they stole from me. 400 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,633 $35,000 of my diamond rings. 401 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:24,734 - And again... - What? 402 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,767 [David] ... all she could say is, "I'm sorry, David." 403 00:16:26,834 --> 00:16:28,900 - How is--how is it that I go to bed... - Oh, my God. 404 00:16:28,967 --> 00:16:31,934 ... I leave two of my diamond rings that I wear every single day... 405 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,400 [Judge Levy] Mr. Rios, I don't see that anywhere. 406 00:16:33,467 --> 00:16:34,567 - Wow. - [Judge Levy] Thank you. 407 00:16:34,633 --> 00:16:35,700 I have enough. 408 00:16:35,767 --> 00:16:39,433 You know, Judge Levy made a great point with respect to Mr. Rios. 409 00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:41,700 You know, there's all of this, this happened, that happened. 410 00:16:41,767 --> 00:16:43,100 There's no evidence. 411 00:16:43,165 --> 00:16:45,667 Fortunately for him, it's not his burden of proof. 412 00:16:45,734 --> 00:16:46,900 It's your burden of proof. 413 00:16:46,967 --> 00:16:50,033 For us to make a reasonable and legal determination, 414 00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:53,500 I need more than "They owe me $3,000," 415 00:16:53,567 --> 00:16:55,867 when he's saying, "We all have to go over this accounting." 416 00:16:55,934 --> 00:16:58,600 And that is why I, right now, ma'am, 417 00:16:58,667 --> 00:17:00,834 I have absolutely no idea 418 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:03,367 what the true basis of your claim is 419 00:17:03,433 --> 00:17:06,767 other than the verbal $3,080 you're citing now. 420 00:17:06,834 --> 00:17:09,400 I need to see an invoice. It's just on your phone? 421 00:17:09,467 --> 00:17:11,400 I don't have an invoice, but I have the text 422 00:17:11,467 --> 00:17:13,800 - in between him and myself only where... - [Judge Acker] No, I know. I... 423 00:17:13,867 --> 00:17:15,767 [Maricela] ... we discussed and I can send here. 424 00:17:15,834 --> 00:17:17,867 [Judge Acker] Uh, I would like to see that. Byrd? 425 00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:22,767 And the text message that you're showing me now indicates what? 426 00:17:22,834 --> 00:17:26,099 You're gonna see there the list where I say, I don't have the invoice, 427 00:17:26,165 --> 00:17:28,667 but I've been sending them all the time 428 00:17:28,734 --> 00:17:31,133 - the proof--the list that I was... - [Judge Acker] Is that this? 429 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,000 - Yes. - Have you seen this list, sir? 430 00:17:33,066 --> 00:17:34,433 This is something that was... 431 00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:38,400 [David] Yeah. And, uh, again, the discrepancy $420 from $280. 432 00:17:38,467 --> 00:17:42,166 Let's go back to her $280 when she was cleaning five rooms with six beds, 433 00:17:42,233 --> 00:17:45,200 towels, every single thing you could think of at $280. 434 00:17:45,266 --> 00:17:48,767 You know, I--it's--and nothing was--nothing was consistent. 435 00:17:48,834 --> 00:17:52,533 So, she says she was entitled to $420 for it. 436 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,233 You say she was only entitled to $280? 437 00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:56,734 - That's correct. - [Judge Acker] Did you pay her the $280? 438 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:57,800 That is correct. Yes, I did. 439 00:17:57,867 --> 00:17:59,767 So is there a proof of that payment? 440 00:17:59,834 --> 00:18:01,100 Um, I would--I sent it over... 441 00:18:01,166 --> 00:18:02,834 [Judge Acker] Did you receive payment on any of these? 442 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:04,967 - [Maricela] On some of them, yes. - On some of them you did? 443 00:18:05,033 --> 00:18:07,367 How am I supposed to determine 444 00:18:07,433 --> 00:18:10,233 what they owe you if there's no invoice? 445 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:14,700 I think that you may very well be owed some money, but I can't guess. 446 00:18:14,767 --> 00:18:16,033 I don't have anything else. 447 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:17,667 All right. We're gonna retire to deliberate. 448 00:18:17,734 --> 00:18:19,200 - Thank you. - No problem. Thank you. 449 00:18:19,266 --> 00:18:22,266 [Byrd] Court now stands in recess. Parties are excused. 450 00:18:22,333 --> 00:18:25,333 [dramatic musical sting] 451 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,200 I'm still confused about what she's owed. 452 00:18:29,266 --> 00:18:30,834 The ledger isn't helpful. 453 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:33,066 I don't think she's trying to run a game on anybody. 454 00:18:33,133 --> 00:18:34,900 I think she just doesn't know. 455 00:18:34,967 --> 00:18:37,367 There's no invoice. 456 00:18:37,433 --> 00:18:41,934 To his point, I think that because there were these reimbursements happening 457 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,700 from these other participants in the venture 458 00:18:44,767 --> 00:18:47,433 that he was more comfortable putting her off 459 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:50,667 and saying, "Let me talk to them. I haven't been reimbursed yet." 460 00:18:50,734 --> 00:18:54,667 But again, even though his answer's a bit waffly, 461 00:18:54,734 --> 00:18:58,100 I can't get my head around the amount 462 00:18:58,166 --> 00:18:59,900 that she has proven. 463 00:18:59,967 --> 00:19:02,567 In fact, when I showed her that list that was on her phone, 464 00:19:02,633 --> 00:19:04,133 I said, "Did you get paid any of this?" 465 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,200 - She was like, "Some of it." - [Judge DiMango] Some of it. 466 00:19:05,266 --> 00:19:07,867 I mean, I--I'm not saying that she may not be owed some money. 467 00:19:07,934 --> 00:19:09,633 I just don't feel like I have enough to make 468 00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:11,400 a legal determination as to how much. 469 00:19:11,467 --> 00:19:14,033 [Judge DiMango] I think she's confused, and I think that's why we're confused. 470 00:19:14,100 --> 00:19:15,900 And as long as it's her burden of proof, 471 00:19:15,967 --> 00:19:18,567 if we're not clear, if we don't walk out of that courtroom 472 00:19:18,633 --> 00:19:20,667 with at least a sense of how much it is, 473 00:19:20,734 --> 00:19:23,567 whether he owes her or not, then she hasn't met her burden. 474 00:19:23,633 --> 00:19:25,300 And I'm kind of in that same spot. 475 00:19:25,367 --> 00:19:27,166 You do the work, you should get paid. 476 00:19:27,233 --> 00:19:28,700 But if you come in as a plaintiff, 477 00:19:28,767 --> 00:19:30,900 it's your burden to prove what you're owed. 478 00:19:30,967 --> 00:19:34,066 And the best evidence of that, as you've indicated, are those invoices, 479 00:19:34,133 --> 00:19:36,200 for whatever reason, she didn't feel comfortable 480 00:19:36,266 --> 00:19:38,300 preparing them and providing them. 481 00:19:38,367 --> 00:19:40,967 And, uh, we can't base a decision on speculation. 482 00:19:41,033 --> 00:19:43,400 - So we're unanimous in dismissing. - Yes. 483 00:19:43,467 --> 00:19:46,467 [dramatic musical sting] 484 00:19:46,533 --> 00:19:47,834 [Byrd] Court is back in session. 485 00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,066 Parties are reminded you're still under oath. 486 00:19:50,133 --> 00:19:51,367 - Thank you, Byrd. - You're welcome. 487 00:19:51,433 --> 00:19:54,867 We've deliberated and we've reached a unanimous verdict. 488 00:19:54,934 --> 00:19:57,000 And, ma'am, Ms. Swain, 489 00:19:57,066 --> 00:19:59,767 it is with regret that we have to dismiss your case. 490 00:19:59,834 --> 00:20:03,467 And it's not because we think that you didn't do a good job. 491 00:20:03,533 --> 00:20:05,767 We know that some issues were disputed, 492 00:20:05,834 --> 00:20:08,033 but you just didn't have the evidence. 493 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:09,900 - Look, these are three people. - Uh-hmm. 494 00:20:09,967 --> 00:20:11,133 [Judge Acker] We are three judges. 495 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,033 And this is a forum where we want people to get paid for their work. 496 00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:19,000 The problem is that when it's unclear what the work was 497 00:20:19,066 --> 00:20:20,934 or how much the fee was for the work. 498 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,266 You really have to have evidence. 499 00:20:23,333 --> 00:20:25,967 And on this record, it was just impossible 500 00:20:26,033 --> 00:20:29,233 for us to determine whether or not you were owed $300, 501 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:31,800 $3,000, $2,000. 502 00:20:31,867 --> 00:20:33,233 - We would only be guessing. - Uh-hmm. 503 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:37,033 So that is why regretfully, uh, we must dismiss your case. 504 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:38,800 Good luck to you both. Thank you very much. 505 00:20:38,867 --> 00:20:40,567 - [Maricela] Oh, thank you. - [David] Thank you. 506 00:20:40,633 --> 00:20:42,734 [Byrd] Court has concluded. Parties are excused. 507 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,767 [theme music plays] 508 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,867 I don't know what to say. Right now my mind is all over. 509 00:20:49,934 --> 00:20:51,867 I think it was very clear the evidence were there. 510 00:20:51,934 --> 00:20:53,433 We never stole anything. 511 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:57,233 Otherwise, imagine, I would have been out of the business long time ago. 512 00:20:57,300 --> 00:20:59,734 But then again, you bring in other people, you have to be responsible for them. 513 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,433 It was a bad lesson for me. 514 00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:03,867 It's sad that it ended this way. 515 00:21:03,934 --> 00:21:06,000 [announcer] Did someone destroy your property? 516 00:21:06,066 --> 00:21:09,066 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 517 00:21:09,133 --> 00:21:13,233 Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice. 518 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:16,500 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]