1 00:00:06,266 --> 00:00:07,333 [Judge Acker] She bought the car. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,033 It was revealed that the odometer had been rolled back. 3 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:11,233 I mean... 4 00:00:11,300 --> 00:00:12,400 Did you lie about that? 5 00:00:12,467 --> 00:00:13,533 I had no idea about any of that. 6 00:00:14,166 --> 00:00:15,166 Oh, my God. 7 00:00:15,233 --> 00:00:18,266 The two of you have no idea how it happened. 8 00:00:18,333 --> 00:00:20,934 You were dealing with two shady business people. 9 00:00:21,467 --> 00:00:23,767 [announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice. 10 00:00:23,834 --> 00:00:27,300 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 11 00:00:45,433 --> 00:00:49,266 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Saratoga Springs, Utah. 12 00:00:49,333 --> 00:00:51,834 [Byrd] Judge, this is case number 2041 on the calender 13 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:54,834 in the matter of Johnson versus Miller, Levin. 14 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:56,133 - Thank you, Byrd. - You're welcome, Judge. 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,433 Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated. 16 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:00,500 Okay. Ms. Johnson, you purchased 17 00:01:00,567 --> 00:01:04,834 a 2007 Chevy Suburban from the defendants. 18 00:01:04,900 --> 00:01:08,133 Mr. Miller, you are a small car dealership 19 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,033 and, Mr. Levin, you are a mechanic and you're both partners in this business. 20 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:14,000 Ms. Johnson, you bought the car. 21 00:01:14,066 --> 00:01:16,500 You say that it broke down within a very short time. 22 00:01:16,567 --> 00:01:19,900 You brought it to his recommended mechanic for repair 23 00:01:19,967 --> 00:01:21,500 and he made things worse, 24 00:01:21,567 --> 00:01:26,100 and, ultimately, you discovered that this vehicle had a rolled-back odometer. 25 00:01:26,166 --> 00:01:28,433 You paid $12,000 for it. 26 00:01:28,500 --> 00:01:32,366 Court maximum is 10,000 and that's what you're asking us to award you. 27 00:01:32,433 --> 00:01:33,800 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] Mr. Miller, you say, 28 00:01:33,866 --> 00:01:35,400 "I sold the car as is." 29 00:01:35,467 --> 00:01:38,834 And Mr. Levin, you said, "I checked this car out ahead of time 30 00:01:38,900 --> 00:01:41,000 and it was in good working condition. 31 00:01:41,066 --> 00:01:43,500 We don't owe her anything and we don't even know 32 00:01:43,567 --> 00:01:45,667 how to roll back an odometer." 33 00:01:45,734 --> 00:01:46,734 - That's right. - Correct. 34 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:48,366 So let's see the picture of the vehicle. 35 00:01:49,866 --> 00:01:51,366 You paid $12,000 for it. 36 00:01:51,433 --> 00:01:52,533 [Cari] Yes. 37 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,433 [Judge DiMango] You advertised this vehicle for sale, 38 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:58,366 so let's see part of the advertisement it looks like. 39 00:01:58,433 --> 00:02:01,767 It says, "We will have this low mileage, 40 00:02:01,834 --> 00:02:07,433 2007 5.3 V8 loaded Suburban for sale soon." 41 00:02:07,900 --> 00:02:13,500 You go on further to say, "108,795 miles, 42 00:02:13,567 --> 00:02:17,233 has had one owner, no liens," correct? 43 00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:18,300 Yes, Your Honor. 44 00:02:18,367 --> 00:02:20,367 [Judge DiMango] So you see this ad. 45 00:02:20,433 --> 00:02:21,433 And what do you do? 46 00:02:21,500 --> 00:02:23,166 We had been saving. 47 00:02:23,233 --> 00:02:26,433 We had a Suburban but it had high mileage. 48 00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:28,100 And we had bought that from my parents. 49 00:02:28,166 --> 00:02:29,500 It's a 2001. 50 00:02:29,567 --> 00:02:34,433 And I had been looking at ads all the time and this popped up. 51 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:36,734 - I texted Tommy... - Time now. 52 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,200 You went to see the vehicle. 53 00:02:38,266 --> 00:02:41,433 You met him up June 28th of 2021, correct? 54 00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:43,700 - Yes. - [Judge DiMango] So that's two years ago. 55 00:02:43,767 --> 00:02:45,166 - Yes. - [Judge DiMango] All right. Go on. 56 00:02:45,233 --> 00:02:48,400 [Cari] We met up with him and my husband test drove it. 57 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:52,333 And he said he had other people that were interested in it 58 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:53,567 and they were going to the bank. 59 00:02:53,633 --> 00:02:54,767 We had the cash. 60 00:02:55,266 --> 00:02:58,000 And he showed me the text of all the people interested... 61 00:02:58,066 --> 00:03:00,734 - Ah, the old sales pitch. - [Cari] Yes. Yes. 62 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:02,734 "Everybody wants this car, 63 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:04,467 - so you better get it now..." - Yes. 64 00:03:04,533 --> 00:03:06,433 [Judge DiMango] "... while it's still available for you." 65 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:09,467 Why don't you step up? Are you, Mr. Johnson? 66 00:03:09,533 --> 00:03:10,900 - Uh, yes. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 67 00:03:10,967 --> 00:03:14,533 Were the defendants both there at the time you test-drove the car? 68 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:15,800 It was just Tommy. 69 00:03:15,867 --> 00:03:17,734 [Judge DiMango] Just Tommy Miller? What did he say? 70 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:21,867 He said, "Go ahead and drive it, see how it works for you. 71 00:03:21,934 --> 00:03:25,033 If you like it, then you'll have to hurry and buy it. 72 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:27,433 If not, I have somebody at the bank right now 73 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:28,500 - trying to get a loan." - [Judge DiMango] I see. 74 00:03:28,567 --> 00:03:30,367 You're a used car salesman, right? 75 00:03:30,433 --> 00:03:33,066 I mean, that's why there's a reputation there. 76 00:03:33,133 --> 00:03:34,466 Yeah, people don't like me already. 77 00:03:34,533 --> 00:03:37,567 No. Do you have another name for that, by the way, Judge Levy? 78 00:03:37,633 --> 00:03:39,667 Another name for used car salesman? 79 00:03:39,734 --> 00:03:42,266 - No. - [laughter] 80 00:03:42,333 --> 00:03:44,667 - Lawyer. - [laughter] 81 00:03:44,734 --> 00:03:47,000 [Judge DiMango] So, anyway, you give them the money. 82 00:03:47,066 --> 00:03:49,466 Did you negotiate at all? 83 00:03:49,533 --> 00:03:52,000 No. It looked like a good price. 84 00:03:52,066 --> 00:03:53,300 - So you bought it? - Yes. 85 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,734 Gave you the title right then and there, signed everything over to you? 86 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,966 - Yeah, the title that you... - And you drove it home? 87 00:03:59,033 --> 00:04:00,734 How far did you have to drive it to get it home? 88 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,734 So our home was around the corner but we drove it on the freeway. 89 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,233 And 15 minutes on the freeway, it started shaking 90 00:04:08,300 --> 00:04:09,967 and sensors started coming on. 91 00:04:10,033 --> 00:04:13,066 Why didn't you drive it on the freeway when you test-drove the car? 92 00:04:13,133 --> 00:04:15,233 You were so excited that it had low mileage? 93 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:18,399 - I mean, really? - He told us that his friend, Wes, 94 00:04:18,466 --> 00:04:21,300 who owned the mechanic shop in the parking lot, 95 00:04:21,367 --> 00:04:24,100 that if it had any issues, we could take it to him. 96 00:04:24,166 --> 00:04:25,667 And that's you, sir, correct? 97 00:04:25,734 --> 00:04:26,967 - Yes. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 98 00:04:27,033 --> 00:04:28,533 So let's hear from you. 99 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,533 You get this car when and where? 100 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,000 From the previous owner. 101 00:04:32,066 --> 00:04:33,800 [Judge DiMango] So direct from the other owner, you got it? 102 00:04:33,867 --> 00:04:35,500 - Correct. - [Judge DiMango] And when did you get it? 103 00:04:35,567 --> 00:04:38,066 What point in time did you buy the car from the owner? 104 00:04:38,567 --> 00:04:43,600 Um, I don't quite remember the exact days of the purchase of the vehicle. 105 00:04:43,667 --> 00:04:47,266 I--we probably had it for, I'd say, two months. 106 00:04:47,332 --> 00:04:49,867 When you bought the car, did you note the mileage? 107 00:04:49,933 --> 00:04:52,166 Um, it's on the title, yeah. 108 00:04:52,233 --> 00:04:53,600 It's not on the title. 109 00:04:53,667 --> 00:04:55,166 Did you look it up on CARFAX 110 00:04:55,233 --> 00:04:57,834 after you were pulled in by the advertisement? 111 00:04:57,900 --> 00:04:59,133 - So I had... - No. 112 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,033 ... no idea there was such thing as... 113 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:03,400 - [Judge DiMango] As CARFAX? - As the odometer rollback. 114 00:05:03,467 --> 00:05:07,000 So I looked up the VIN and I looked up if it was a clean title 115 00:05:07,066 --> 00:05:09,600 and if it had been on accidents, but... 116 00:05:09,667 --> 00:05:10,834 And that's all you needed, you thought? 117 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:12,667 - Yes. - Okay. So let's go back to you guys. 118 00:05:12,734 --> 00:05:15,433 You get the car. You get it from the other person. 119 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:17,567 How many cars did you ever sell in your business? 120 00:05:17,633 --> 00:05:18,633 - Just... - [Judge DiMango] One. 121 00:05:18,700 --> 00:05:19,734 - It was one. - [Judge DiMango] The Suburban. 122 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,300 - Yeah. - Oh, my God. 123 00:05:21,367 --> 00:05:22,767 - Really? - Yeah. 124 00:05:22,834 --> 00:05:24,332 [Judge DiMango] How long have you been in business? 125 00:05:24,734 --> 00:05:26,467 - We were just starting it. - [Judge DiMango] Like an hour? 126 00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:29,033 - A month. - [Judge DiMango] And are you closed now 127 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:30,200 or you're still actually working? 128 00:05:30,266 --> 00:05:31,967 Yeah, that was a-- that was a previous venture, for sure. 129 00:05:32,033 --> 00:05:33,033 [Judge DiMango] All right. 130 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:36,467 On the CARFAX, when you buy the car, 131 00:05:36,533 --> 00:05:39,433 June 29th, do you know what the CARFAX says? 132 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,367 "Potential odometer rollback." 133 00:05:42,433 --> 00:05:45,300 Why? Because when you got the car, 134 00:05:45,367 --> 00:05:48,933 it had something like 168,000 miles. 135 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,332 And when she got the car, suddenly 60,000 miles were missing. 136 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,000 Do you know that it's a crime to roll back an odometer? 137 00:05:57,066 --> 00:05:59,667 - I do now. - What business did you go into now? 138 00:05:59,734 --> 00:06:02,433 Because I'm really hoping it had nothing to do with cars and mechanical stuff. 139 00:06:02,500 --> 00:06:03,900 I work on--I'm an IT person. 140 00:06:03,967 --> 00:06:05,333 - [Judge DiMango] You're IT? - Uh-hmm. 141 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,734 - And what about you? - I'm in the UTV world. 142 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,667 - More recreational stuff. - [Judge DiMango] All right. 143 00:06:10,734 --> 00:06:12,433 - Now, let me ask you something else. - [Cari] Yeah. 144 00:06:12,500 --> 00:06:14,567 - 'Cause you had that car two years. - Yes. 145 00:06:14,633 --> 00:06:16,800 [Judge DiMango] And within the first few weeks, 146 00:06:16,867 --> 00:06:18,000 you brought the car back to him. 147 00:06:18,066 --> 00:06:19,367 Yes. We brought it back the next day. 148 00:06:19,433 --> 00:06:22,100 [Judge DiMango] And did he charge you? Did Levin charge you anything? 149 00:06:22,166 --> 00:06:23,967 - He didn't. It's not on record. - [Judge DiMango] No, of course not. 150 00:06:24,033 --> 00:06:25,433 Because you wanted her to keep coming back, 151 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:28,266 because if she would have gone to somebody else, 152 00:06:28,332 --> 00:06:30,500 they might have said this was tampered with. 153 00:06:30,567 --> 00:06:33,266 So 14 months go by, 154 00:06:33,332 --> 00:06:36,332 and all you put into a 2007 car, 155 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:41,133 a 16-year-old car over 14 months is $741. 156 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,633 That's all you paid. 157 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:44,000 Think about that. 158 00:06:44,066 --> 00:06:47,332 And then five months after that, you spent how much more on it? 159 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,367 - About 2,500? - Twenty-five hundred. 160 00:06:49,433 --> 00:06:50,533 And did you bring it to him? 161 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:51,967 You brought it to another car dealer-- 162 00:06:52,033 --> 00:06:54,367 - another mechanic? - We had been bringing it to a mechanic-- 163 00:06:54,433 --> 00:06:58,800 a different mechanic since like September of 2021. 164 00:06:58,867 --> 00:07:01,367 And after that, you wanna go trade it in... 165 00:07:01,433 --> 00:07:02,467 - [Cari] Yes. - ... and get what you can for it. 166 00:07:02,533 --> 00:07:04,934 - But you're driving it for two years. - Yes. 167 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,100 So now you bring it to the car dealership 168 00:07:07,166 --> 00:07:10,233 and they're the ones that say to you what? 169 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:11,734 That there was a rollback. 170 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,700 So you go out of your way to contact the prior owner and they tell you what? 171 00:07:15,767 --> 00:07:19,667 They told me that it was in Wes's shop, 172 00:07:19,734 --> 00:07:21,900 the Suburban, with a blown engine. 173 00:07:21,967 --> 00:07:24,600 That it was gonna be a $4,000 fix. 174 00:07:24,667 --> 00:07:27,934 And they had been texting a dealership at the time 175 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,166 telling them that they have a Suburban with over 150,000 miles 176 00:07:33,233 --> 00:07:35,834 with a blown engine in a mechanic shop 177 00:07:35,900 --> 00:07:37,633 and he was looking for a different car. 178 00:07:37,700 --> 00:07:39,300 So that's why he was texting that. 179 00:07:39,367 --> 00:07:41,633 And that was April before we bought it. 180 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:43,400 Okay. Now, you have to know something. 181 00:07:43,467 --> 00:07:45,967 That it's not illegal to sell a vehicle 182 00:07:46,033 --> 00:07:47,633 - with a rolled-back odometer. - Okay. 183 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:49,933 [Judge DiMango] It's illegal to not tell somebody about it. 184 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,867 But had you revealed that, 185 00:07:51,933 --> 00:07:53,933 you probably would both be in the clear 186 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,233 instead of the police waiting for you outside, 187 00:07:55,300 --> 00:07:56,300 put you in handcuffs for rolling it back. 188 00:07:56,367 --> 00:07:57,367 Well, we both didn't know about it. 189 00:07:57,433 --> 00:07:58,667 - Yeah, we didn't know about that. - We didn't know about that. 190 00:07:58,734 --> 00:08:00,133 - The odometer said what it said. - [Judge DiMango] You both [indistinct] 191 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:01,367 to talk now. 192 00:08:01,433 --> 00:08:04,133 But you're saying that when you got the vehicle from the owner, 193 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:05,834 you never put down the mileage? 194 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:08,300 - That's your position? - Um, no. We would have had the mileage. 195 00:08:08,367 --> 00:08:10,400 It's on the title. There's a spot. We bought... 196 00:08:10,467 --> 00:08:13,600 Show me on the title and Judge Levy will pick up the questioning. 197 00:08:13,667 --> 00:08:16,000 'Cause when we got it, it had the miles that we sold it with. 198 00:08:16,066 --> 00:08:18,567 How did you guys know each other? How long have you known each other? 199 00:08:18,633 --> 00:08:20,767 A long time. Ten plus years. 200 00:08:20,834 --> 00:08:22,400 [Judge Levy] And from where? From--you go to--you to go school... 201 00:08:22,467 --> 00:08:24,400 - High school. - Friendship. We both grew up together. 202 00:08:24,467 --> 00:08:25,900 Like friendships and school. 203 00:08:25,967 --> 00:08:27,233 Oh, so you went to school together? 204 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:28,300 - Yeah. - Correct. 205 00:08:28,367 --> 00:08:30,967 And according to your answer, 206 00:08:31,033 --> 00:08:33,799 you say that in June of 2021, 207 00:08:33,866 --> 00:08:37,767 you, Mr. Miller, and Mr. Levin, were gonna start their own small, 208 00:08:37,834 --> 00:08:40,165 independent auto dealership for used cars. 209 00:08:40,232 --> 00:08:41,232 Yes, Your Honor. 210 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:46,200 So what experience did you have selling cars as of June of 2021? 211 00:08:46,266 --> 00:08:49,500 None professionally. Just selling personal cars since I was 16. 212 00:08:49,567 --> 00:08:50,567 [Judge Levy] And how old are you? 213 00:08:50,633 --> 00:08:51,767 I'm 35 now. 214 00:08:51,834 --> 00:08:53,667 [Judge Levy] And how many cars would you say that you sold 215 00:08:53,734 --> 00:08:55,000 over that period of time? 216 00:08:55,066 --> 00:08:56,133 Twenty plus. 217 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,166 And, Mr. Levin, what specific experience do you have as a head mechanic? 218 00:09:00,233 --> 00:09:01,400 Did you go to school for that? 219 00:09:01,467 --> 00:09:03,467 Yes. I've gone to school with it. 220 00:09:03,533 --> 00:09:05,700 - I went to MATC. - [Judge Levy] What is that? 221 00:09:05,767 --> 00:09:07,367 - It's a trade school. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 222 00:09:07,433 --> 00:09:10,200 School is not gonna teach you how to extract a broken bolt 223 00:09:10,266 --> 00:09:11,266 or things like that. 224 00:09:11,333 --> 00:09:13,033 You just have to be in the real world, you know, doing it. 225 00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:14,934 So would it be fair to say that over the period of time 226 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,133 that you've been fixing up cars, 227 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,500 that you've taken apart the car from head to toe? 228 00:09:20,567 --> 00:09:22,633 Yeah. On the mechanical side, absolutely. 229 00:09:22,700 --> 00:09:24,333 And you, Mr. Miller, indicated 230 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,600 - that you are now in the IT world? - Yes, Your Honor. 231 00:09:26,667 --> 00:09:28,500 [Judge Levy] That means that you're pretty good with computers. 232 00:09:28,567 --> 00:09:30,500 - Yes. - You know them backwards and forwards, 233 00:09:30,567 --> 00:09:33,433 - inside and out? - Yeah. I could build one. Uh-hmm. 234 00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:37,367 Did you lie when you put up the ad 235 00:09:37,433 --> 00:09:40,033 for the car that eventually was purchased by the plaintiffs? 236 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:42,233 [dramatic musical sting] 237 00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:44,867 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 238 00:09:44,934 --> 00:09:46,266 - Didn't have any problems. - It's a used vehicle. 239 00:09:46,333 --> 00:09:47,934 How do they not have some problems? 240 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,467 I mean, I've never seen a used vehicle or even a new vehicle that's... 241 00:09:51,533 --> 00:09:53,400 Really? Well, let me ask you something. 242 00:09:53,467 --> 00:09:55,367 Did you tell that to the plaintiff when you sold it to her? 243 00:09:55,433 --> 00:09:57,200 [dramatic musical sting] 244 00:09:59,033 --> 00:10:00,266 [theme music plays] 245 00:10:00,900 --> 00:10:03,133 [announcer] Cari Johnson is suing Thomas Miller 246 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,900 and Wesley Levin for $10,000, 247 00:10:05,967 --> 00:10:10,700 claiming they sold her a used SUV with a rolled-back odometer. 248 00:10:10,767 --> 00:10:14,567 But Thomas and Wesley claim they had no idea it was rolled back 249 00:10:14,633 --> 00:10:16,300 or how it could have happened. 250 00:10:16,367 --> 00:10:19,834 Did you lie when you put up the ad 251 00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:22,633 for the car that eventually was purchased by the plaintiffs? 252 00:10:23,333 --> 00:10:24,500 No, Your Honor. 253 00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:28,800 [Judge Levy] So tell me how it was that you confirmed, 254 00:10:28,867 --> 00:10:33,533 prior to posting the ad, that there was only one prior owner? 255 00:10:34,700 --> 00:10:37,600 I just went off his word 'cause he went and bought the car. 256 00:10:37,667 --> 00:10:39,867 - [Judge Levy] Went off whose word? - Wesley's, 'cause he bought the car. 257 00:10:39,934 --> 00:10:42,367 [Judge Levy] Was that important to you that there was only one prior owner? 258 00:10:42,433 --> 00:10:43,467 Yes, Your Honor. 259 00:10:43,533 --> 00:10:46,633 [Judge Levy] And if there were, say, four owners on the car, 260 00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:50,133 they were quickly turning over, would that cause you concern? 261 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,200 Yes, Your Honor. 262 00:10:51,266 --> 00:10:54,400 [Judge Levy] You're in the business and you know that if you commit fraud, 263 00:10:54,467 --> 00:10:57,000 that is you make material misrepresentations 264 00:10:57,567 --> 00:11:02,467 in an advertisement that the sale is no longer considered as is. 265 00:11:02,533 --> 00:11:04,133 - You know that. - I did not know that. 266 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,266 [Judge Levy] That's the law. 267 00:11:05,333 --> 00:11:09,033 So now we know that you put down that there was only one owner. 268 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:11,900 You know that's false, right, as you stand here right now? 269 00:11:11,967 --> 00:11:13,133 I do now. 270 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,033 I didn't get a CARFAX report so I had no idea. 271 00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:16,400 [Judge Levy] You never checked it out? 272 00:11:16,467 --> 00:11:19,433 Well, I just saw one owner on the title so I just figured it was a one-owner... 273 00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:21,266 [Judge Levy] What was the person's name on that title? 274 00:11:21,333 --> 00:11:22,333 I don't remember, Your Honor. 275 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,600 [Judge Levy] And you haven't seen that title, right? 276 00:11:23,667 --> 00:11:25,767 - Not since that day. - [Judge Levy] You don't have it with you? 277 00:11:25,834 --> 00:11:26,834 No, Your Honor. 278 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:31,133 You know that it's a class B misdemeanor in the state of Utah 279 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,633 to purchase a car and sell a car 280 00:11:33,700 --> 00:11:38,033 without indicating on the title the odometer reading. 281 00:11:38,100 --> 00:11:39,133 - You know that. - Correct. 282 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,834 And if you sell it, you know that you're committing a crime 283 00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:43,633 by not including the mileage on it, right? 284 00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:44,867 Yeah. It's got boxes for it, yeah. 285 00:11:44,934 --> 00:11:48,066 [Judge Levy] You may not have the title but you know who does? 286 00:11:49,700 --> 00:11:51,533 She does. Let's see it. 287 00:11:54,633 --> 00:11:56,200 - I'll take that Cassandra. - [Cassandra] Uh-hmm. 288 00:12:01,533 --> 00:12:02,533 - Okay. - I got it. I got it. 289 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,033 I'm gonna make this easy for you two 'cause this is not gonna go well for you. 290 00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:08,633 You should have seen what happened to the last person who lied to me. 291 00:12:11,033 --> 00:12:12,033 Show it to him. 292 00:12:14,333 --> 00:12:16,233 You are being shown a document. 293 00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:18,133 Do you recognize that document? 294 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:19,700 [Thomas] Yes. The title. 295 00:12:19,767 --> 00:12:21,900 [Judge Levy] You signed that document with the penalties of perjury, 296 00:12:21,967 --> 00:12:23,667 - did you not? - Yes, I did. 297 00:12:23,734 --> 00:12:25,967 [Judge Levy] Did you put the odometer reading on 298 00:12:26,033 --> 00:12:29,533 when you sold it on June 28th, 2021? 299 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,000 - No. - [Judge Levy] So we just established 300 00:12:31,066 --> 00:12:33,900 that the two of you committed a class B misdemeanor 301 00:12:33,967 --> 00:12:36,300 in June 28th, 2021. 302 00:12:36,367 --> 00:12:38,767 So I'm asking you now, Mr. Levin, 303 00:12:38,834 --> 00:12:41,600 when you bought the car from the previous owner, 304 00:12:41,667 --> 00:12:43,467 was it in good working order? 305 00:12:43,533 --> 00:12:44,533 No, sir. 306 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,233 [Judge Levy] 'Cause it had a blown engine. 307 00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:48,800 I don't believe-- no, the engine was not blown but-- 308 00:12:48,867 --> 00:12:51,400 you know, I got it in running condition 309 00:12:51,467 --> 00:12:53,300 and I know it didn't take an engine to do that. 310 00:12:53,367 --> 00:12:55,734 Okay. Mr. Miller, this is your answer. 311 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,000 "Wesley worked on the vehicle, inspected it, test-drove it. 312 00:12:59,066 --> 00:13:02,700 The 'vehicle' was in great shape." That's what you put in your... 313 00:13:02,767 --> 00:13:04,567 Yeah. I drove it for a week before I sold it to her. 314 00:13:04,633 --> 00:13:05,633 You drove it for a week? 315 00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:06,700 [Thomas] My house was 30 minutes away. 316 00:13:06,767 --> 00:13:08,300 I drove it for an hour each day. 317 00:13:08,367 --> 00:13:11,200 [Judge Levy] Good. In your answer, you said the plaintiff had 318 00:13:11,266 --> 00:13:13,900 "some issues with the vehicle initially 319 00:13:13,967 --> 00:13:16,433 and Wesley repaired them for her," correct? 320 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:18,667 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] Now, to you, Mr. Levin, 321 00:13:18,734 --> 00:13:21,633 according to your answer, you say, "I do not owe plaintiff money 322 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:24,400 'cause I repaired and inspected her vehicle 323 00:13:24,467 --> 00:13:27,233 and it did not have any issues at the time of purchase." 324 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:28,567 That's what you said, right? 325 00:13:28,633 --> 00:13:30,400 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] Did you lie about that? 326 00:13:30,467 --> 00:13:32,633 I didn't. I mean, no. Cars have problems. 327 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:33,700 [Judge Levy] You sure about that? 328 00:13:33,767 --> 00:13:35,934 Well, it obviously had issues 'cause it came right back. 329 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,934 You know, it was an issue that I was not aware of at the time. 330 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,367 - [Thomas] Didn't have any problem... - It's a used vehicle. 331 00:13:40,433 --> 00:13:41,967 How do they not have some problems? 332 00:13:42,033 --> 00:13:43,834 I mean, I've never seen a used vehicle 333 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:45,700 or even a new vehicle that's in good shape. 334 00:13:45,767 --> 00:13:47,533 Really? Well, let me ask you something. 335 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,567 Did you tell that to the plaintiff when you sold it to her? 336 00:13:49,633 --> 00:13:51,400 Did you tell the plaintiff, "Hey, listen, 337 00:13:51,467 --> 00:13:53,633 I can't make any representations about this car 338 00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:55,867 whether it had problems, whether it doesn't have problems. 339 00:13:55,934 --> 00:13:57,834 It's a used car. All used cars have problems." 340 00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:59,200 That would have been honest. 341 00:13:59,266 --> 00:14:00,400 But you didn't say that to her. 342 00:14:00,467 --> 00:14:02,633 What you said, "It was in great working order. 343 00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:05,133 No mechanical problems." Isn't that what he said to you? 344 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,166 Yes. He said perfect working condition. 345 00:14:07,233 --> 00:14:09,367 [Judge Levy] Perfect working condition. 346 00:14:09,433 --> 00:14:10,967 After driving it for a week, it didn't have any problems. 347 00:14:11,033 --> 00:14:13,567 I'm not asking you how long you drove it for. 348 00:14:13,633 --> 00:14:15,600 - I don't believe you anyway. - Okay. 349 00:14:15,667 --> 00:14:17,734 [Judge Levy] Who is Key Auto Group? 350 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,300 - Who is that? - That's a dealership in Utah. 351 00:14:20,367 --> 00:14:23,433 [Judge Levy] You never brought this vehicle in there to get repaired? 352 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:25,266 That wouldn't make sense for me to do that. 353 00:14:25,333 --> 00:14:27,100 I do all my own repairs. 354 00:14:27,166 --> 00:14:28,467 What about you, sir? 355 00:14:28,533 --> 00:14:30,333 My own personal car, sure. 356 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:34,100 All right. The sale of this vehicle was June 28th, '21, correct? 357 00:14:34,165 --> 00:14:35,867 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] So now this vehicle, 358 00:14:35,934 --> 00:14:38,266 this Chevy Suburban, same VIN number, 359 00:14:38,333 --> 00:14:41,900 was taken to Key Automotive Group on June 25th, 360 00:14:41,967 --> 00:14:44,867 three days before you sold it, 2021. 361 00:14:44,934 --> 00:14:46,066 And at that time, 362 00:14:46,133 --> 00:14:50,165 you told them to please check over for potential vehicle purchase. 363 00:14:50,233 --> 00:14:52,100 That's what you told them. 364 00:14:52,165 --> 00:14:53,834 And let's see what they did. 365 00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:57,800 These items were recommended to you to do today but not performed. 366 00:14:57,867 --> 00:15:01,500 So this is what you knew on June 25th, 367 00:15:01,567 --> 00:15:03,867 prior to selling the car to the plaintiff. 368 00:15:03,934 --> 00:15:07,767 Okay. "Engine oil leaks from around pan area. 369 00:15:07,834 --> 00:15:09,767 Differential cover gasket leaking. 370 00:15:09,834 --> 00:15:12,533 Exhaust manifold bolt broken. 371 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:14,600 Transmission cooler line leaking. 372 00:15:15,033 --> 00:15:17,266 Power steering line leaking." 373 00:15:17,333 --> 00:15:19,367 Does that help refresh your recollection 374 00:15:19,433 --> 00:15:22,367 as to what the two of you knew about this car 375 00:15:22,433 --> 00:15:24,200 before you sold it to the plaintiff? 376 00:15:24,266 --> 00:15:25,633 I had no idea about any of that. 377 00:15:25,700 --> 00:15:26,700 [Judge Levy] No? 378 00:15:26,767 --> 00:15:29,100 I'm gonna let Judge Acker handle that. Please, Judge Acker. 379 00:15:29,166 --> 00:15:30,700 You two are just gonna deny everything. 380 00:15:30,767 --> 00:15:32,934 I mean, I'm looking at a CARFAX 381 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,967 that shows that the vehicle was serviced 382 00:15:36,033 --> 00:15:39,100 three days before she purchased it 383 00:15:39,165 --> 00:15:41,500 while it was still in your possession 384 00:15:41,567 --> 00:15:45,800 and there was a potential odometer rollback identified 385 00:15:45,867 --> 00:15:48,133 just before she bought the car. 386 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,266 But you guys have no idea how that happened. 387 00:15:50,333 --> 00:15:52,165 - No idea. - I had the car for a week. 388 00:15:52,233 --> 00:15:55,433 Detailed it, made sure there was no problems with it, and sold it. 389 00:15:55,500 --> 00:15:57,667 - I have some questions for you... - [Cari] Yes. 390 00:15:57,734 --> 00:16:00,100 ... because I am not sure 391 00:16:00,166 --> 00:16:03,033 that it is enough that you simply prove 392 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:05,934 that you were dealing with two shady business people. 393 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,367 - You had this car for two years. - Yes. 394 00:16:08,433 --> 00:16:11,000 Tell me how and why you're damaged. 395 00:16:11,066 --> 00:16:13,700 Well, when we took it to the dealership to trade it in, 396 00:16:13,767 --> 00:16:15,934 it was worth the cost of parts. 397 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,834 And then if we were to sell it, it would have over 200,000 miles. 398 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:21,266 [Judge Acker] Why did you wait so long? 399 00:16:21,333 --> 00:16:23,367 Why did it take you two years? 400 00:16:23,433 --> 00:16:25,800 Because I note that when you first bought the car, 401 00:16:25,867 --> 00:16:27,600 you had problems immediately. 402 00:16:27,667 --> 00:16:29,867 You took it to the defendants about three times 403 00:16:29,934 --> 00:16:33,967 and then you paid the other mechanic $741.78. 404 00:16:34,033 --> 00:16:36,700 Yes. And then it broke down that last... 405 00:16:36,767 --> 00:16:38,967 - [Judge Acker] It was a 16-year-old car. - Yeah. 406 00:16:39,033 --> 00:16:43,000 You need to explain to me why their dishonesty caused this problem 407 00:16:43,066 --> 00:16:46,233 with a 16-year-old car that you were continuing to drive for two years. 408 00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:48,667 So we ended up--after it broke down-- 409 00:16:48,734 --> 00:16:52,767 we have four kids so we have to fit into a larger vehicle. 410 00:16:52,834 --> 00:16:55,433 It shakes. It doesn't feel safe. 411 00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:58,033 So I have to just drive it in short distances. 412 00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,834 I only drive the kids to practice or school with it 'cause I don't trust... 413 00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:03,400 Why didn't you get a CARFAX? 414 00:17:03,467 --> 00:17:06,133 Like I said, I didn't know there was an odometer rollback. 415 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,300 [Judge Acker] I know but you could have. 416 00:17:07,367 --> 00:17:09,300 - With a little bit of diligence... - [Cari] Well, I... 417 00:17:09,367 --> 00:17:11,333 ... you might have been able to see 418 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,300 that this odometer was rolled back. 419 00:17:13,367 --> 00:17:15,433 It was rolled back days before you bought it. 420 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:18,700 I just didn't know that was a common thing and now I know. 421 00:17:18,767 --> 00:17:20,165 [dramatic musical sting] 422 00:17:20,233 --> 00:17:22,733 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 423 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,500 I bet somebody who could build a computer 424 00:17:24,567 --> 00:17:27,500 knows how to figure out how to roll back an odometer. 425 00:17:27,567 --> 00:17:29,400 Just hazarding a guess. 426 00:17:29,467 --> 00:17:31,300 [dramatic musical sting] 427 00:17:33,266 --> 00:17:35,033 [theme music plays] 428 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:38,400 [announcer] Cari Johnson is suing Thomas Miller and Wesley Levin 429 00:17:38,467 --> 00:17:40,066 for $10,000, 430 00:17:40,133 --> 00:17:42,533 claiming they sold her a used SUV 431 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,934 with a rolled-back odometer. 432 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,600 But Thomas and Wesley claim they had no idea it was rolled back 433 00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:50,233 or how it could have happened. 434 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,033 Now, she bought the car after it was serviced 435 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:56,266 while it was in your possession, and while it was serviced, 436 00:17:56,333 --> 00:17:59,100 it was revealed that the odometer had been rolled back. 437 00:17:59,166 --> 00:18:00,367 - And in fact... - I was only part of the sale. 438 00:18:00,433 --> 00:18:01,767 I was a salesman. I wouldn't go get it repaired. 439 00:18:01,834 --> 00:18:02,834 - [Judge Acker] Right. - It's not my job. 440 00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:04,233 [Judge Acker] And you said you're an IT specialist. 441 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:05,433 - Yeah. - [Judge Acker] And I remember you said 442 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:07,066 that you could build a computer. 443 00:18:07,133 --> 00:18:08,133 [Thomas] Yeah, but nothing to do with cars. 444 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,567 I bet somebody who could build a computer 445 00:18:09,633 --> 00:18:12,800 knows how to figure out how to roll back an odometer. 446 00:18:12,867 --> 00:18:14,400 Just hazarding a guess. 447 00:18:14,467 --> 00:18:16,200 - No clue. - [Judge Acker] Just had no clue. 448 00:18:16,266 --> 00:18:17,734 I have no connectors that can connect to your car. 449 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,200 [Judge Acker] I know. You're just an honest Harry. 450 00:18:19,266 --> 00:18:23,100 The two of you have no idea how it happened. 451 00:18:23,166 --> 00:18:25,567 That is just wild. Byrd, doesn't that sound wild? 452 00:18:25,633 --> 00:18:27,667 These kind of fairy tales make me think 453 00:18:27,734 --> 00:18:30,934 that I'm ready to give the case back to Judge DiMango. 454 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,400 Goodnight. 455 00:18:32,467 --> 00:18:33,734 We're gonna retire to deliberate. 456 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,033 - Thank you both. - [Cari] Thank you. 457 00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:36,433 [Byrd] Court now stands in recess. 458 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:37,734 Parties are excused. 459 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,567 [dramatic musical sting] 460 00:18:41,633 --> 00:18:43,467 Okay. So I have a dilemma 461 00:18:43,533 --> 00:18:46,467 and my dilemma is she's got a car 462 00:18:46,533 --> 00:18:49,033 that she's still driving two and a half years later. 463 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:51,033 She brings it in. She says it's junk. 464 00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:52,433 They don't wanna give her anything for it. 465 00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:53,667 But, meanwhile, she's driving it 466 00:18:53,734 --> 00:18:56,300 and could still sell it with the rolled-back odometer 467 00:18:56,367 --> 00:18:59,900 provided that she notifies people that this is not accurate mileage. 468 00:18:59,967 --> 00:19:03,467 So we have that versus the fact that these two people 469 00:19:03,533 --> 00:19:05,667 who are in business sell a car 470 00:19:05,734 --> 00:19:08,934 that we see has a rolled-back odometer 471 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,200 and through all the evidence, it seems only to point to them. 472 00:19:12,266 --> 00:19:14,100 So that's my dilemma. 473 00:19:14,166 --> 00:19:16,600 Do we unwind this deal? Do we rescind it? 474 00:19:16,667 --> 00:19:18,700 Like I said, that could happen here. 475 00:19:18,767 --> 00:19:20,734 If we find that they did commit this fraud, 476 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,533 we could rescind the deal from fraud in the inception. 477 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,033 Or did she get a value? 478 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:28,200 So I really wanna hear from the two of you before I go anywhere. I think I... 479 00:19:28,266 --> 00:19:30,800 I am not--I am not conflicted in the least. 480 00:19:30,867 --> 00:19:32,400 They lied through their teeth. 481 00:19:32,467 --> 00:19:34,500 They committed criminal fraud 482 00:19:34,567 --> 00:19:37,367 when they sold the vehicle to this plaintiff. 483 00:19:37,433 --> 00:19:38,667 You know, listen, common sense, 484 00:19:38,734 --> 00:19:41,600 we know that when the car salesman is like, "Oh, we got a-- 485 00:19:41,667 --> 00:19:43,233 we got a lot of people looking," 486 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:44,300 that was just nonsense 487 00:19:44,367 --> 00:19:47,734 because he put the ad up on May 18th, right? 488 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,600 May 18th is when he said, "Getting ready for sale." 489 00:19:50,667 --> 00:19:52,834 May 18th, 'cause it was in their possession. 490 00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:55,934 It was in defendant number two's possession, the mechanic, 491 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,300 because it had a blown engine. 492 00:19:57,367 --> 00:19:59,967 They were just getting it all set up to sell. 493 00:20:00,033 --> 00:20:03,567 When he's replacing the engine, which he had to do, 494 00:20:03,633 --> 00:20:05,300 we know now 495 00:20:05,367 --> 00:20:08,100 that's when they rolled back the odometer. 496 00:20:08,166 --> 00:20:09,467 They lied to the plaintiff. 497 00:20:09,533 --> 00:20:11,834 They induced her into purchasing a vehicle 498 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:15,667 that they knew had a rolled-back odometer 499 00:20:15,734 --> 00:20:17,000 that, according to the plaintiff, 500 00:20:17,066 --> 00:20:19,667 and I have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve her testimony, 501 00:20:19,734 --> 00:20:21,633 makes the car worthless. 502 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:22,934 It's worth parts. 503 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,900 In my opinion, any other decision that would not unwind the deal 504 00:20:26,967 --> 00:20:29,967 and give her back all of the money that she spent on it 505 00:20:30,033 --> 00:20:32,567 just rewards these two knuckleheads. 506 00:20:32,633 --> 00:20:35,667 And I hope someone in Utah does something about these two 507 00:20:35,734 --> 00:20:37,567 'cause they're gonna do it again. 508 00:20:37,633 --> 00:20:38,900 I agree with you, Adam. 509 00:20:38,967 --> 00:20:40,800 I think that if we let it stand, 510 00:20:40,867 --> 00:20:43,900 it sort of gives people who are committing fraud an out. 511 00:20:43,967 --> 00:20:45,400 - Just think of what she did. - No, no. I'm not... 512 00:20:45,467 --> 00:20:46,734 - Yeah, yeah. - I'm not saying I'm not. 513 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,100 I'm saying that there is a bigger statement here. 514 00:20:48,166 --> 00:20:49,300 - But we're judges. - Yeah. 515 00:20:49,367 --> 00:20:51,567 We need to balance what we hear and what we see. 516 00:20:51,633 --> 00:20:54,567 And the reality is she's sitting there still driving around. 517 00:20:54,633 --> 00:20:57,000 And do I wanna reward them for that type of behavior? 518 00:20:57,066 --> 00:20:58,500 - Absolutely not. That's why... - She's driving around, 519 00:20:58,567 --> 00:21:01,266 but she didn't get the benefit of her bargain. 520 00:21:01,333 --> 00:21:04,700 The deal that they made was for a Suburban 521 00:21:04,767 --> 00:21:07,066 that had 108,000 miles on it. 522 00:21:07,133 --> 00:21:09,200 The low mileage was a critical part of the deal. 523 00:21:09,266 --> 00:21:10,266 Exactly. Exactly. 524 00:21:10,333 --> 00:21:11,500 [Judge Levy] But that's not all. 525 00:21:11,567 --> 00:21:14,500 On June 25th, three days before the sale, 526 00:21:14,567 --> 00:21:16,800 they knew that the engine leaked, 527 00:21:16,867 --> 00:21:20,934 the differential cover gasket was leaking, the exhaust manifold was broken, 528 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,100 the transmission cooler line was leaking, 529 00:21:23,166 --> 00:21:25,400 the power steering line was leaking. 530 00:21:25,467 --> 00:21:28,200 They knew all of that and they kept it from her. 531 00:21:28,266 --> 00:21:30,200 How many times do we have these as-is cases 532 00:21:30,266 --> 00:21:31,667 where we don't have that information? 533 00:21:31,734 --> 00:21:35,300 And the reason they do that, in my view, the reason they do this 534 00:21:35,367 --> 00:21:36,834 is because they don't know how to assess it. 535 00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:39,033 They don't have the capability or the equipment to do that. 536 00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:40,600 So they bring it to a dealer. 537 00:21:40,667 --> 00:21:42,433 They say, "Hey, listen to my car. I wanna buy it. 538 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:43,600 Tell me what's wrong with it." 539 00:21:43,667 --> 00:21:45,700 The dealer says, "This is what's wrong with it. 540 00:21:45,767 --> 00:21:47,900 We could fix it for you for A, B, C, and D." 541 00:21:47,967 --> 00:21:49,300 And then they say, "Great." 542 00:21:49,367 --> 00:21:52,166 They take it back and either they say, "We can't fix this. 543 00:21:52,233 --> 00:21:54,100 We're just gonna sell it and try to hide it," 544 00:21:54,166 --> 00:21:57,667 or they do fix it, in which case-- then there's, you know, no harm, no foul. 545 00:21:57,734 --> 00:21:58,967 And they--right. And they didn't-- and they fixed nothing. 546 00:21:59,033 --> 00:22:00,967 [Judge DiMango] But the bottom line here is I'm on board. 547 00:22:01,033 --> 00:22:04,033 There's a greater statement to be made by the verdict in this case 548 00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:07,266 than just this vehicle and whatever, and that's why it's a crime. 549 00:22:07,333 --> 00:22:11,700 And I think that she should get back her $10,000. 550 00:22:11,767 --> 00:22:14,800 I count the 2,000 that she lost out on as rental fees. 551 00:22:14,867 --> 00:22:15,867 Got it. 552 00:22:15,934 --> 00:22:18,934 [dramatic musical sting] 553 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,000 [Byrd] Court is back in session. 554 00:22:20,066 --> 00:22:21,900 I remind parties you're still under oath. 555 00:22:21,967 --> 00:22:23,200 - Thank you, Byrd. - Uh-hmm. 556 00:22:23,266 --> 00:22:25,834 We are unanimous in finding 557 00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:29,767 that the evidence points in only one direction 558 00:22:29,834 --> 00:22:31,800 and that's at the both of you. 559 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,500 You both had the background, the knowledge, 560 00:22:35,567 --> 00:22:39,100 and the opportunity to roll back an odometer. 561 00:22:39,166 --> 00:22:40,900 Now, this is not a criminal trial 562 00:22:40,967 --> 00:22:44,200 so we're not finding proof beyond a reasonable doubt. 563 00:22:44,266 --> 00:22:47,500 But we have found by a preponderance of the credible evidence 564 00:22:47,567 --> 00:22:50,166 that when you sold the plaintiff this vehicle, 565 00:22:50,233 --> 00:22:52,533 you knew that you had done that. 566 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,266 Now, in any jurisdiction, fraud in the inception of a contract 567 00:22:56,333 --> 00:23:00,367 makes it a rescindable, unenforceable contract should the parties choose 568 00:23:00,433 --> 00:23:02,066 and, clearly, you're here 569 00:23:02,133 --> 00:23:04,166 'cause that's the direction you wanna go in. 570 00:23:04,233 --> 00:23:06,266 And so, Ms. Johnson, what you are going to do 571 00:23:06,333 --> 00:23:08,600 is you are going to return the vehicle, 572 00:23:08,667 --> 00:23:11,133 along with its title to the defendants. 573 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,066 We are unwinding this deal in its entirety. 574 00:23:14,133 --> 00:23:17,567 And in exchange, you will get the $10,000 from them 575 00:23:17,633 --> 00:23:20,200 that, in fact, is our jurisdictional maximum. 576 00:23:20,266 --> 00:23:23,166 And that is the verdict of the court. It's unanimous. 577 00:23:23,233 --> 00:23:25,600 [Byrd] This case is now concluded. Parties are excused. 578 00:23:25,667 --> 00:23:26,834 You may step out. 579 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,867 [theme music plays] 580 00:23:29,934 --> 00:23:31,300 I did not roll back the odometer. 581 00:23:31,367 --> 00:23:33,333 Oh, they 100% rolled it back. 582 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,967 - I have no idea how to do that. - No. 583 00:23:35,033 --> 00:23:37,200 It's shaking right now. It barely works. 584 00:23:37,266 --> 00:23:39,967 I think it's pretty unfair too. When you buy a used car, it's as is. 585 00:23:40,033 --> 00:23:42,633 We feel like it can go out at any time. 586 00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:44,700 I mean, it was working great when I sold it to her. 587 00:23:44,767 --> 00:23:46,967 We know now check the CARFAX. 588 00:23:47,033 --> 00:23:48,767 [announcer] Have you been scammed? 589 00:23:48,834 --> 00:23:53,100 Let the majority rule in your favor on Tribunal Justice. 590 00:23:53,166 --> 00:23:55,200 Find us on social media. 591 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,667 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]