You brought Ally to the defendant who was a groomer.
He told me that she had a cut and that she was bleeding.
I was willing to help her.
Do you think that he intentionally did this to the dog?
I'm actually not sure.
- So what'd you say it for? - Um...
For you to come to court and imply
this gentleman tried to intentionally hurt your dog,
I find that outrageous.
[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in Buffalo, New York.
[Cassandra] Your Honor, this is case number 2056,
Rogers versus Leslie.
All parties have been sworn in.
You may be seated.
- Thank you, Cassandra. - [Cassandra] You're welcome.
Ms. Rogers, you own a small mixed terrier
- named Ally, correct? - [LaShawna] Yeah. Yes, Judge.
[Judge DiMango] And you brought Ally to the defendant who was a groomer.
You say he cut her lip.
She sustained injuries.
And you sustained emotional distress
- from watching all of this happen to her. - Correct.
[Judge DiMango] And you're here suing for $1,600 in vet bills
and $3,400 in emotional distress
- for you and for your dog. - Correct.
[Judge DiMango] You, sir, say if she would have told me the truth
on the intake form,
- this never would have happened. - Correct.
[Judge DiMango] In fact, you were even bitten
- and you're not even suing for that. - Correct.
[Judge DiMango] So let's see a picture of Ally.
- That's Ally, right? - Yes.
[Judge DiMango] Is she a baby in that picture?
- She... - The first one.
[Judge DiMango] And the second one is her now?
[LaShawna] More current, yes.
Okay. So did you ever bring Ally
to a trimmer or a groomer before?
Yes. One other time.
And before that, I was bathing her and cutting--
well, trimming her nails myself.
When was the first time that you groomed her?
Maybe around one years old.
[Judge DiMango] How'd that go?
It was fine. She was fine with the bath.
And then I started to take her to one of the larger companies.
I took her and they actually trimmed her
and they had no issues with her.
And how old was she at that time?
[LaShawna] Around that time, she was maybe one years old.
[Judge DiMango] So how old was Ally at the time you brought her
to the defendant's salon?
Two years old.
- [Judge DiMango] She was two? - Yes.
So she hadn't had anything like that done to her
- in about a year? - Correct.
[Judge DiMango] Because I do recall having read in your papers
that you did tell the defendant,
"It's only her second grooming
so she may be a little afraid of the clippers,
but with some reassurance, she'll be calm."
Because, to me, that told me
that she had an issue in the past with the clippers.
Yeah. She gets nervous about the noise
when you turn the noise on, so she will try to run from it.
She does get nervous from the noise.
Now, before you went to see the defendant,
you claimed to have done some research on him
and you were kinda watching him on Facebook.
Tell me why you were doing that.
I was just wanting to support Black local businesses,
and I saw like he's mutual friends with a lot of my peers.
So I did see people tagging him on social media
when they were looking for recommendations for a groomer.
So I decided to book with him.
[Judge DiMango] Okay. I understand that.
So let's look at where the cut was
- to the dog's lip. - Yes.
[Judge DiMango] Now, are you suing 'cause you think
that he intentionally did this to the dog?
Um, I'm actually not sure.
I just wanna get paid for the vet bills
and the emotional distress.
I'm not sure if he did it intentionally or if it was an accident.
[Judge DiMango] Well, why would he intentionally cut the dog's lip
if you were gonna then start posting, "He cut my dog's lip"?
I mean, it doesn't seem to be a decision
that any good businessman or any person
who wants to stay in business would do.
But I'm curious, does Ally ever act up at all?
Is she a little rambunctious and kind of...
No. She has no behavioral issues.
She's never bitten anyone else.
She's been around other people.
She went to PetSmart first.
She's never bitten any of those groomers there.
But I did also notice in your text messages
when you say you have now seen bad Ally.
- Yup. - [Judge DiMango] So...
When I said she probably does get a little bad
when she isn't used to something.
[Judge DiMango] Well, a cute little dog like that,
is there a reason why you didn't bring Ally to court?
Ally is active.
And that's what I meant when I said bad.
She is active.
Had I brought her, she would wanna run around, jump up there.
[Judge DiMango] She's hard to contain is what you're saying
- or she's not? - Yeah. In certain situations,
yeah, she can get active.
And you left her there, didn't you?
Right, because when I dropped her off,
she was very receptive to the defendant.
He was pleasant to her. She was pleasant to him.
So I figured, you know, it would be fine.
- Is that accurate, sir? - Yes.
And when you were washing her and clipping and cutting,
how was her behavior?
Um, she just started getting like erratic.
I contact the defendant every--the whole step of way.
I text her everything that was happening.
When she bit the instrument, I told her about it
and she said to finish the groom. That it was okay.
She acts a little crazier at certain times.
[Judge DiMango] So let me pause you there.
You were told by her that there's a possibility
she wouldn't like the clippers.
- Clippers are noisy. - [James] Uh-hmm.
[Judge DiMango] And so in response to that,
you took scissors to clip the hair
- around her face. - [James] Correct.
And because of the way she acts out,
unbeknownst to you,
she started acting crazy as hell,
as was pointed out in your messages,
and it was at that point that the scissors
somehow cut her by the mouth.
- Would that be correct? - [James] Yes.
So as I'm cutting and--you know, I'm right-handed,
so I have to go over to this side.
So as I'm going over to this side,
she like--it happened so--
- it happened so fast. Like she... - [Judge DiMango] So she turned
into the scissor before you were cutting
- and that's why the cut was above... - Yeah. It's like right here, yes.
- Oh, okay. - In the text messages,
if you can see, she says that,
"Well, she does act crazy at certain times
or if she doesn't know what's going on, she does act crazy."
But that wasn't put on the intake form,
because on the intake form, she said no,
- you don't have any problems. - [Judge DiMango] Now, I have your--
- I have the intake form. - [James] So...
You asked how she responds to other people and she says,
"She's people-friendly. She'll bark at other dogs."
You asked if she had ever nipped or bitten at anybody.
You said no.
[James] So the whole thing was a lie.
[Judge DiMango] Did you offer her her money back?
Yes. I gave it to her. And I offer...
Did he give the money back?
Yes. He did offer me a refund back.
Shy of $10, but he did send a refund back.
[Judge DiMango] Because you said you're here
- 'cause you wanted your money back. - [LaShawna] For vet bills.
But I don't remember seeing in the papers
that she submitted vet bills to you that you didn't pay.
- No, she didn't. She didn't tell me... - [LaShawna] No, I...
I didn't know anything until I literally got the paperwork in the mail.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
There was nothing that you saw to suggest
the defendant was the type of person
- who would intentionally hurt a dog. - Correct.
So what'd you say it for?
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] LaShawna Rogers is suing dog groomer, James Leslie IV,
for $5,000 in vet bills and emotional distress
after she claims he severely injured her dog during an appointment.
James claims it's LaShawna's fault
for lying about her dog's aggression
which led to him being bitten as well.
I don't remember seeing in the papers
that she submitted vet bills to you that you didn't pay.
- No, she didn't. She didn't tell me... - [LaShawna] No, I...
I didn't know anything until I literally got the paperwork in the mail.
Like in the last text message, I said,
"Is there anything else I can do for you,"
'cause I refunded and, you know, I was willing to help her.
- Oh, that's not what... - [Judge DiMango] You're certified?
- Is that correct, sir? - Yes.
Do you need a certification
- to work as a groomer? - No. Not at all.
So then why did you get the certification?
If anybody like, you know, coming from anywhere
just like, okay, so he is at least like--you know,
he did go through schooling like, you know...
[Judge DiMango] 'Cause the reason I'm asking that
is 'cause I believe you got your certification
- two days actually before you actually... - [James] Yeah.
- That's when I completed it, yes. - [Judge DiMango] Yeah.
I needed that--I needed that certification to go into competitions.
By the way, you have a whole place set up in your home.
- Can we see the video of him... - [James] Yeah. Yes. I built a whole--
I built--at the back of my house,
I built a whole glass patio and I built everything
- for--the back for this. Like... - [Judge DiMango] Can we please see
the video of the defendant's setup?
Yes, that's the--that's the tub I bought.
That's the back wall. I had built the whole--
if you could see, that's the back of my house.
- [Judge DiMango] Uh-hmm. - [James] So all that glass
and all that--the roof, all that,
- I built that on the back of my house. - [Judge DiMango] Okay.
[James] I had to put lights in, all of that, um, the chairs.
- That's the table and stuff. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. Thank you.
So you weren't there witnessing the injury.
You're not a person who's in a zone of danger.
This is not a family member.
And under the law, those are the requirements
to recover for negligent infliction of emotional distress.
Yeah, because she had to wear a lampshade.
- [Judge DiMango] Yes. - [LaShawna] She couldn't eat properly.
Yes. This is the picture you're referring to
- with the lampshade... - [LaShawna] Yes.
[Judge DiMango] ... so that the dogs don't rip out their own stitches.
Now, I'm not disputing that your dog had to see a vet.
What I am saying is that I don't believe, in my view,
that there is a cause of action for negligent infliction
of emotional distress on your behalf
or for emotional distress at all on behalf of your puppy,
because we have no way to gauge anything.
Judge Levy.
- [Judge Levy] So, Ms. Rogers... - Yeah.
... you found the defendant after doing a thorough search
- amongst your friend groups. - Correct.
There was nothing, zero,
that you saw online to suggest
that he, the defendant, was the type of person
- who would intentionally hurt a dog. - Correct.
[Judge Levy] Okay. So what'd you say it for?
Why do you tell us that you thought that he might have done it?
I just wasn't sure, 'cause she's never bitten me or anyone else,
so I just didn't believe that she...
[Judge Levy] Okay. But to accuse someone
of perhaps intentionally harming an animal,
a little irresponsible.
- Do you follow? - I got you.
[Judge Levy] Okay. Now, the date of the injury was October 13th.
So now, Mr. Leslie, to your point
about the plaintiff lying on her questionnaire.
On October 12th, there is a text message
in which you asked her about
what is the most important thing
about your pet that I should know,
- right? - [James] Yes.
[Judge Levy] And what she responded back was,
"She's two years old.
It's only her second grooming,
so she may be a little afraid of the clippers,
but with some reassurance, she'll be calm."
- You read that. - [James] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Levy] So how do you reconcile
the information that she provided to you
- before you ever got the dog... - Uh-hmm.
[Judge Levy] ... with your whole defense here,
which is that she lied in her questionnaire?
'Cause I don't see that being a lie at all.
She said her dog don't bite. Her dog was biting.
That's where--that's where the lie was at.
If the dog started biting, initially, I would have muzzled the dog.
- [Judge Levy] Hold on. - [James] Uh-hmm.
She's testified that the dog has never bit anyone.
It hasn't bit her, didn't bite the first groomer.
But she did say, very clearly,
that the dog would likely be afraid
- and she would be afraid of the clippers. - [James] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Levy] So you knew to be extra cautious,
- right? - Uh-hmm.
So what extra precautions did you take
when you started with the clippers around the dog's face?
What extra precautions?
[James] There was no clippers used around her face.
But regarding the scissors, there's no--
there's really no safe way that you can really do
with a dog up to their face.
It's like a moving target basically.
And then once she bit, it was like okay,
that's when I told her and I was like, "Okay, well--I don't know.
I'll finish up the groom or,"--you know, I finished her up
- and she went on a--she went on about it. - [Judge Levy] I got it.
That's what I mean. So like she was biting
but he said that he would finish the service.
- [Judge Levy] I get it. - That's what I said.
- I know. And you were bit. - [Judge Levy] Now, I wanna get
to the second point. Mr. Leslie,
you say that you offered her a choice of a refund
or payment of the vet bill,
'cause you knew there was a vet bill, right?
Yes. That's what she told me. Yes.
[Judge Levy] One thing I didn't see in any of your texts
when she told you that was a response by you,
"Okay, just let me know what the vet bill was and I'll take care of it."
No, my response was, "What would you like for me to--
what would like me to do?"
[Judge Levy] As far as the hospital records go,
you supplied those, did you not?
- Yes. - [James] She did not supply those to me.
- Well, she didn't show it to you. - No, not him.
- [James] Oh. - I know that.
Why didn't you show it to him?
I let him know that I was going to the vet
and that she had to get stitches. He didn't say anything about that.
- So I just... - [Judge Levy] Mr. Leslie, that's...
[James] Yes, I did. I said, "Let me know what I can do."
Yes, it does at the end. "Let me know what I can do."
And I say, "Please keep me updated as well."
[Judge Levy] Mr. Leslie, here's the problem.
You didn't wanna offer her what you know you should have offered her,
which was to pay for the vet bill as a result of the injury that you caused,
'cause you said you would have paid for it, right?
I mean, regardless, my insurance would have pay for,
so it wouldn't have-- so it really wouldn't matter to me.
[Judge Levy] Well, so if it didn't matter, why not just say why...
Because I didn't know she was suing me.
[Judge Levy] No, no, no, no.
Mr. Leslie, I'm talking about on the 13th when the dog is there
when you guys are having these conversations
and she says that she took the dog to the vet.
Nothing prevented you from saying,
"Just give me your bill and I'm gonna pay it."
And then you would have taken that bill.
You would have given it to your insurance carrier.
They would have paid it. Done.
- Right? - It didn't happen that way.
It didn't happen that way 'cause you knew that if you did that,
your premiums would go up.
- Your insurance premiums would go up. - What? Twenty-five dollars?
- Okay. - [Judge Levy] Hold on.
It doesn't make a difference. All I'm concerned with right now,
Mr. Leslie, is that you made an allegation here in court
that you gave her a choice and that choice included paying for the vet bill
and she chose only to take a refund.
That's what your defense is.
And what I'm telling you is that that is inconsistent with the papers.
Well, I guess I didn't word it right.
It wasn't worded to--you're correct.
So to your standing, I guess.
Let me know what I could do-- meant if there's anything else
that you need, I will-- I will provide that for you.
That's--let me know what I can do is...
- [Judge Levy] Okay. - Okay. I didn't interpret it like that.
[Judge Levy] No one would.
- Judge Acker. - [Judge Acker] Thank you.
I wanna go back to a point that Judge Levy made.
He said it was irresponsible of you to suggest
that this may have been intentional?
I think it was worse than that.
I think it's outrageous and unconscionable...
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Acker] ... given the facts
in this case where he advises you of the incident,
he's continuing to advise you of the incident,
he's saying, "How I can help with the incident,"
he gives you a refund for the incident.
For you to come to court, an open court
and imply that there is even the slightest possibility
that this gentleman tried to intentionally hurt your dog,
I find that outrageous.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
[Judge Acker] She always respond to commands?
- Yes, she does. - [Judge Acker] Don't believe you.
Because what we're forgetting is that your dog bit him.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] LaShawna Rogers is suing dog groomer, James Leslie IV,
for $5,000 in vet bills and emotional distress
after she claims he severely injured her dog during an appointment.
James claims it's LaShawna's fault for lying about her dog's aggression
which led to him being bitten as well.
- I say this as a pet owner... - [LaShawna] Uh-hmm.
... as someone who's had small dogs,
big dogs, gone to the PetSmart grooming,
it is your responsibility
to make sure that your dogs are trained
and able to engage with strangers.
You know, when I hear pet owners say things like, "They've never bitten me,"
you know who my dogs love more than anybody? Me.
- [LaShawna] You're right. - So they never bite me.
So when I hear you say those things,
that makes me think irresponsible pet owner.
"She's nice to me. She's gonna be good to everybody."
My dog has had training from PetSmart.
When I first got her-- I got her at six months.
She probably went until she was about 11 months.
She always respond to commands?
- Yes, she does. - [Judge Acker] Don't believe you.
Because anytime a pet owner says, "Do they always obey?"
"Yes, they always obey." That's a lie.
Because what we're forgetting is that your dog bit him.
- [LaShawna] That's what he said... - Your dog...
... but he continued the grooming.
[Judge Acker] Exactly.
Can we see a picture of the bite?
So your dog bit him.
He kind of sucks it up.
He continues with the treatment.
The other thing I found interesting about your complaint, Ms. Rogers,
is that the way you described what happened when little Ally got in the car,
you said she shook and then there was blood all over.
Where's the blood all over?
Where's the picture of the blood-spattered car?
It's like you make it sound like he was just Dexter,
trying to like assault the dog. And I'm advised...
- No. I'm not--I'm not saying that. - [Judge Acker] ... there are no pictures
of any blood-spattered car.
I think that you are really inflating what happened here.
You're the one who acknowledges to him after the fact that your dog
is "crazy as hell" when not used to something
like being groomed.
Who was negligent here?
Maybe he should be the one who should be complaining of your negligence.
- Uh-hmm. - [Judge Acker] Mr. Leslie,
with respect to the questionnaire
that you gave the plaintiff, why do you have that?
[James] So things like this won't happen at all.
So I'm gonna ask her questions so I could know like, okay,
if your dog is like a little mean, I could, you know, go in with treats.
So I could go in with a different--if your dog is biting, I can go in with a muzzle.
If your dog doesn't--like some dog doesn't like their feet touched,
so I put them in a sling.
I have stuff for every type of dog.
[Judge Acker] And so, let me ask you this.
Was there anything in this questionnaire that gave you reason to believe
that the plaintiff's dog was as she described her "crazy as hell"...
- [James] No, she did not... - [Judge Acker] ... when subjected
to new experiences?
- Anything? - No.
And then when she came up to me, she was--she ran up to me
like I had already seen her because I got--most of the dogs
ran up to me 'cause I have a special bond with dogs.
- I love dogs. - [Judge Acker] I got it.
Thank you, sir. I don't have anything else.
[Judge DiMango] We're gonna retire to deliberate.
- Thank you both. - Okay.
Court is now in recess.
This case will be recalled.
[dramatic musical sting]
You know the first telltale sign that little Ally was as crazy as hell?
- She wasn't in court. - [laughs]
'Cause when you have a dog that cute and you're not bringing her in
for sympathy and all sorts of dog lover affection,
you know something's up with the dog.
There is no way that this groomer did anything intentionally to the dog.
He used scissors when she warned him of the noise from the clippers.
I think he did all he could.
I don't wanna give her anything, and I don't even believe
there is a cause of action for emotional distress on her behalf
under these facts or for the dog for sure.
Listen, I would agree with you on the emotional distress.
However, I disagree as far as the medical bills go.
If you've injured someone, acknowledge it.
He's told us that he did.
In his papers, he made it very clear.
But his text messages, never once did he say that, "I offer to pay."
- [Judge Acker] But like he's get... - He's claiming he didn't get a chance
- because... - No, no, no, no.
But he--but he did say--well, he gave her the refund
and he said, "What else can I do?"
[Judge Levy] No, he--but he had not.
He had not given her the refund yet.
He said that he would give her a refund.
"Let me know what you want to do.
Do you wanna take the refund?
Do you not wanna take the refund?"
He's trying to have his cake and eat it too.
He wants us to believe that he offered her the payment of the vet bills.
[Judge DiMango] But he didn't think he did anything wrong.
- [Judge Acker] Yeah. - [Judge Levy] So when he says to us
in his answer that the plaintiff lied on her questionnaire
about her dog's propensity for aggression,
and she said that she's only two,
it's only her second grooming, so she may be a little afraid
of the clippers, but with some reassurance, she'll be calm.
[Judge DiMango] And he didn't use clippers.
- And--exactly. - He didn't use them.
And, to me--and I think that that, in and of itself...
- Right. - ... his response to that shows that
when he made whatever offer he made,
I frankly don't think he was legally obligated to do anything.
I think he was trying to be a good business guy.
[Judge DiMango] I'm a hundred percent on with you.
- I think this was... - This is an assumption of risk
practically when you bring your dog
and you're gonna have something-- you know,
- have them clip... - I mean, he wanted to make her happy.
- Yeah. - I think he felt horribly
about the fact that it happened.
The fact that she knows, like if you know that your animal
reacts badly to new experiences,
then it's on you to be extra cautious
when exposing the animal to new experiences,
- so I'm with Patricia. - And stay there.
- I would dismiss entirely.
- Okay. - And, honestly, if I were him,
I wouldn't offer to pay, either, at that point in time.
I mean, I would have had a discussion with her.
But she didn't give him room for a discussion.
She sued him within two weeks.
I believe that she is entitled to just the medical bills,
the $1,600, but I don't mind dissenting on that.
I got a question for you, because you get a haircut kinda freaking,
you're kinda gonna be like this.
What if they cut your head cutting your hair,
- would you wanna start suing them? - I got my ears.
- There you go.
Look at the size-- look at the size of these ears.
- They get clipped all the time. - And you didn't start suing them.
[laughter]
So we're not unanimous, by the way.
- [Judge Acker] We're not unanimous. - Okay.
[dramatic musical sting]
[Cassandra] Court is now in session.
All parties are reminded that you're still under oath.
All right. Thank you. We deliberated.
We had a little bit of a back-and-forth with the facts
and each of your testimony and evidence,
and we are not a unanimous court.
Judge Acker and I are the majority view.
Judge Levy is the dissent.
And to just add a little levity, he's only a dissent
'cause once he went for a haircut and they clipped off his ear.
So, you know, he's kind of, you know--it's not important.
- Oh, nobody's laughing. - I don't know.
[laughter]
[Judge DiMango] Anyway,
- your case had a number of problems. - Okay.
[Judge DiMango] The first is you admitted twice
in your text messages to the defendant
that she's crazy as hell.
[Judge DiMango] In the answers to his questions,
you didn't kinda put that in there.
You kinda pushed that under the rug.
Furthermore, there was some discrepancy in Judge Levy's mind
as to whether or not you were offering to pay the vet bill or not,
and so that was an issue that we discussed as well.
But the reality is that you could not make your case for Judge Acker and I
by a preponderance of the credible evidence
that the defendant would indeed be responsible for your medical bills.
We both felt that you did not have to come forward with and offer to pay those bills.
And, secondly, that we all agree there was no cause of action
for your emotional distress, as these facts do not fall into that law.
Judge Levy believed however that the defendant should be responsible
for your medical bills, and as such, he would have awarded you $1,600.
Judge Acker and I don't see that at all in these facts and so therefore,
it is our position that your complaint be dismissed in its entirety,
- and that is the verdict of the court. - Okay.
This case has concluded. All parties are dismissed.
[theme music plays]
I'm not saying that he's a bad groomer.
It wasn't anything personal.
Nothing's ever intentional.
I just wanted him to pay for the bills.
She was kept up to date on everything that I did with the dog and to the dog.
Like I said, the first time she got groomed,
she went to professionals and she was fine.
Well, I take new clients but I just know to, you know, distinguish between
who to take and who not to take.
She's fine. She's her normal self.
[announcer] Did someone break an agreement?
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.
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["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]