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The issue is bugs.

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When I went to move in,
that's when I saw dead cockroaches.

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There's no sign of anything
inside the apartment unit.

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Do you have a picture of any bug?

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There's bugs in the refrigerator,
on the stove.

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- Pictures.
- Unfortunately not.

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If I'm in any place
and there are roaches in the refrigerator

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and fleas behind the oven,
I'm gonna take a picture.

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[announcer] Now, on Tribunal Justice.

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["Ride of the Valkyries plays]

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[announcer] Today's case was filed
in Fontana, California.

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[Byrd] Judge, this is case
number 2004 on the calendar,

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in the matter of Najjar versus Perez.

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Parties have been sworn in.

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- [Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd.
- [Byrd] You're welcome, Judge.

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Ms. Najjar,

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you rented a studio apartment
from the defendant.

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And, Mr. Perez, I understand
that you are the owner/landlord

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of the unit that the plaintiff rented.

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However, the transactions
and conversations

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that transpired between the plaintiff,

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they were with
your authorized agent, correct?

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Yes. She's a real estate agent.
I'm the broker.

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[Judge DiMango]
So now you, ma'am, are saying

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you were supposed to move in in April.

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- You paid the first month's rent.
- Uh-hmm.

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[Judge DiMango]
And you also gave a security deposit.

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- The total of that is $3,500.
- That's correct.

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[Judge DiMango] You contend that
due to the ongoing infestation of fleas

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and roaches, you and your dog, Lola,
could never fully move into the unit.

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That you notified his agent,
they breached the warranty

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of habitability by being unable
to remedy this problem.

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And since it was uninhabitable,
you have been constructively

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evicted and therefore you are
entitled to the return of the full

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April rent that you paid
as well as your security deposit.

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Sir, you say that you and your agent did
everything you possibly could.

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You feel she was unreasonable.

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These are false contentions
of bugs in the apartment.

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There really weren't any according to you.

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And that the reason
that she was doing this

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was because she really just
changed her mind

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and didn't wanna live there anymore.

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In fact, you offered to settle this
with her and she refused your offer,

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so you're both here today.

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- That's correct.
- Where are you living now?

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I'm still with my mom.

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- [Judge DiMango] Okay.
- Yeah.

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And you came from your mom's home
to move into this unit,

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- in the defendant's...
- [Amal] Yeah. That's correct.

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- ... multi-unit property?
- [Amal] Yeah.

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I want to look at the unit,
and that's when I met the broker.

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She showed me around the place.

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Okay. So on April 4th,
you walk into the apartment.

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- You look at it. You stay...
- [Amal] Yes.

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Having already paid rent
in my--with my mom.

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You paid your mother $400,
which was to cover the month of April.

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- Yes.
- [Judge DiMango] April 4th,

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you go into the apartment.

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You look at it. And what happens?

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I mentioned that my mom has
a very intense phobia of cockroaches,

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so that bugs were going to be an issue.

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[Judge DiMango] Okay. So you make a point.

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- Bugs were an issue.
- I made a point. And she said that...

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- [Judge DiMango] Did you see a bug?
- ... it was fumigated. No.

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[Judge DiMango] But you said,
"On my first visit to the apartment,

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I saw a few dead baby cockroaches."

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So that was after I signed the lease.

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So we signed the lease on the 4th.

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And then when I went to move in,

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that's when I saw
dead cockroaches, April 6th.

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[Judge DiMango] Okay. So April 6th,

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you ask about them and they tell you

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that the apartment was fumigated...

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- Yes.
- [Judge DiMango] ... correct?

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Do you fumigate
these apartments regularly, sir?

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I just acquired
the property two months prior,

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so I haven't done it regularly.

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We had it fumigated per her request.

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Okay. I saw a can of something
somewhere and--

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up on the screen.

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Is that what you used to fumigate?

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[Peter] I did not use it.
That's what the fumigator used.

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And that communication was between
my property manager

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and the fumigator that she's been using
for over ten years.

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What happens after he fumigates?

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So after the building
was supposedly fumigated,

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I returned and there was still an issue.

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[Judge DiMango] 'Cause I have that here.

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On April 9th,
you say you haven't slept there still

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- and there were bugs there.
- [Amal] Uh-hmm.

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And this is a message
that you sent to his agent?

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- Yes.
- [Judge DiMango] But you're still not

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living in the apartment.
You're still living with your mother.

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- That's correct.
- Go on.

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[Amal] On the 9th,
that's when I did--I did move in

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some of my belongings
from my storage over.

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- So...
- Didn't you go to Coachella that weekend?

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Yeah.
I was working at Coachella that weekend.

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So you were not available
to move into the apartment that weekend,

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- but your things were there, correct?
- [Amal] Yeah. That's correct.

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[Judge DiMango] So now, April 9th,

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you tell the real estate agent
that there are bugs

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and she says, "Okay,
we will have the place fumigated again."

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- Yeah.
- [Judge DiMango] So now you come back

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from Coachella and you tell them

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there are still bugs in the apartment.

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- Is that correct?
- Yes.

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Do you have a picture of any bug?

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I do have a video.

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[Judge DiMango] Video of the apartment?

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What are we looking at?

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[Amal] So you're looking at my pant leg...

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- [Judge DiMango] Yes.
- [Amal] ... from--

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so I was in the house
and I actually went to use the restroom.

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And as I'm sitting there,
I looked down and I see these fleas on me.

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- Wait. That's in the house?
- No.

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This is when I ran out of the house,
pulled my truck bed down,

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and I'm sitting there,
knocking these fleas off of me.

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Did you ever take any picture of any flea,

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living or dead, in the apartment?

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Unfortunately not.

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Why not?

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If I came into a place
that had dead cockroaches or fleas,

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I would be taking pictures of that.

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You know the nature of a flea, right?

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You try to get it off of you and it hops.

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- I wear--I wear a lot of oils, so...
- [Judge DiMango] I noticed you carried

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your fleas from the bathroom to the yard.

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- [Amal] Yeah.
- I've had pets my whole life.

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- That's not a flea.
- That's why we're here.

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- [Judge DiMango] Okay. Let me...
- Sorry.

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[Judge DiMango]
... talk to you a little bit.

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There's a stairway I wanted to show you.

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The plaintiff consider
that perhaps the stairway

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- was the cause of the bugs.
- [Peter] Yeah.

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I had to rip the carpet out.

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[Judge DiMango] Right.
But you didn't just rip it up

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because you were ripping it up.

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You ripped it up because there was
some evidence of bugs there

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as your real estate agent admits.

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No. I had it ripped out
because I said if it's--

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if she thinks there's gonna be
any bugs anywhere

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and there's no sign
of anything inside the apartment unit,

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then rip the carpet out as well
because if there's gonna be anything...

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[Judge DiMango]
Except that there's a text message...

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... it's gonna go away as well.

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[Judge DiMango]
Except there's a text message between

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your agent and the plaintiff
where you were blaming her dog

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for bringing the fleas in
in the first instance.

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[Peter] Well, if there's no flea--I mean,
the apartment was empty for two months.

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There's nothing in the apartment
that the fleas could have lived on.

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But she does have reports
from a vet that the dog

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has had its flea medication
and that the dog has been groomed.

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My real concern here is more about
what you said, whether or not

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this was just a ploy by her,
because she never did move in.

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She moved all her property in but,
for some reason, didn't move herself in.

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- In fact...
- She also didn't move her stuff out

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right away. She wasn't quick to move out.

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[Judge DiMango] That's correct as well.

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Did you leave all your things
in the apartment?

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I did leave my things in the apartment.

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They were all moved out by May 6.

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Where did you go on May 6th?

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All my stuff went back to my storage unit
because none of my personal,

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like everyday belongings
were ever moved into the space.

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[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.

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- You trust your property manager.
- Yes.

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- She has no reason to lie.
- [Judge Levy] Right.

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Your property manager
never told you about a bug,

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but we now know
that your property manager lied to you.

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[dramatic musical sting]

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[theme music plays]

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[announcer] Amal Najjar
is suing her former landlord,

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Peter Perez,
for $3,500 in rent and security deposit.

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She claims bugs kept her from moving in,

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but Peter says
Amal made up the infestation

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to break a lease she couldn't afford.

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Now, you have all these boxes
in a place where you say is infested.

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You say, "Okay. Fine. You want out."

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He was willing to return the $2,000
security deposit

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to you but not rent for April.

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And terminate her lease.

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- [Judge DiMango] And terminate the lease.
- She signed the one-year lease.

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I was willing to let her out of it,
mutually.

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[Judge DiMango] ... important factor here,
because without cause

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for you to breach this lease,

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you'd be responsible on it
until he rented it or you rented it.

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- I rented it two months later.
- [Judge DiMango] Within two months.

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- Is that tenant still living there?
- [Peter] He is.

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I have other tenants who live
across the hall too that didn't complain.

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How long were your boxes
in a storage facility?

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At that point,
probably close to two years...

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- [Judge DiMango] Okay.
- ... because I just closed my business

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00:08:32,900 --> 00:08:35,734
in Northern California with COVID, so...

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[Judge DiMango] What did you do?

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I had an herbal apothecary.

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So you had herbs
and all sorts of things like that?

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- [Amal] Crystals and candles.
- [Judge DiMango] What did you do

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- with all that stuff?
- That's what's inside of my storage unit.

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[Judge DiMango] So you take your boxes
from the storage facility

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00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:51,300
that's been sitting there for two years,

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with herbs and other things in it,

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00:08:54,266 --> 00:08:56,400
and you move it into a place

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00:08:56,467 --> 00:08:58,700
that when you first go in
and sign the lease,

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00:08:58,767 --> 00:09:02,066
by your testimony in here, had no bugs.

206
00:09:02,133 --> 00:09:04,800
You left it in there, and, at that point,

207
00:09:04,867 --> 00:09:07,333
when you went back a couple of days later,

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00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,967
it was then that
you saw some dead roaches.

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00:09:11,033 --> 00:09:12,600
- That's not...
- [Judge DiMango] That was your testimony.

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00:09:12,667 --> 00:09:16,100
There's bugs in the refrigerator,
on the stove.

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00:09:16,166 --> 00:09:18,500
- There's a live cockroaches behind...
- [Judge DiMango] Pictures.

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00:09:18,567 --> 00:09:20,300
- There's...
- Pictures.

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00:09:20,367 --> 00:09:22,467
I don't have--I just have the testimony

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00:09:22,533 --> 00:09:25,100
- of text messages that, you know...
- That you sent.

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00:09:25,166 --> 00:09:27,367
- As it was happening, yes.
- [Judge DiMango] So then...

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00:09:27,433 --> 00:09:31,433
I didn't know that I was preparing
for a whole lawsuit, like...

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00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:32,500
[chuckles]

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00:09:32,567 --> 00:09:34,400
[Judge DiMango] And what do you do?
You leave your things in there

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00:09:34,467 --> 00:09:37,165
till May 7th, as best
I could tell from the papers.

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00:09:37,233 --> 00:09:41,300
He offers to return to you
your security deposit which you refuse.

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00:09:41,367 --> 00:09:42,967
He doesn't wanna give you April

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00:09:43,033 --> 00:09:44,667
because he believes
you've been living in there.

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00:09:44,734 --> 00:09:47,667
You have your property in there
through the whole month of April.

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00:09:47,734 --> 00:09:51,700
And he lets you out of your lease
without asking for anything,

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00:09:51,767 --> 00:09:54,200
even though still it remained
unrented for two months.

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00:09:54,266 --> 00:09:57,867
And your position is,
"Now, I don't wanna give you anything."

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00:09:57,934 --> 00:09:59,233
Is that your position now?

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My position is I don't feel like
I should give up the security deposit.

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00:10:02,066 --> 00:10:03,633
I didn't countersue.

230
00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,867
And because she took me here,
yeah, I don't wanna return that.

231
00:10:06,934 --> 00:10:09,500
Can you tell me that you never saw
any bugs in that apartment?

232
00:10:09,567 --> 00:10:10,600
Yes, I can.

233
00:10:10,667 --> 00:10:11,834
- [Judge DiMango] Thank you very much.
- You're welcome.

234
00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:13,600
- [Judge DiMango] Judge Levy.
- [Judge Levy] 'Cause you would agree that

235
00:10:13,667 --> 00:10:15,667
if there were bugs in--and what have you,

236
00:10:15,734 --> 00:10:17,734
that it would be considered uninhabitable,

237
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,867
at least, the argument could be made,
and you would have to return everything.

238
00:10:20,934 --> 00:10:22,166
I wouldn't even argue.

239
00:10:22,233 --> 00:10:25,400
[Judge Levy] Right.
Because you trust your property manager.

240
00:10:25,467 --> 00:10:27,667
Yes. She's been with me a couple years.

241
00:10:27,734 --> 00:10:29,133
[Judge Levy] She doesn't lie.

242
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,867
- She has no reason to lie.
- [Judge Levy] Right.

243
00:10:30,934 --> 00:10:33,600
And if there were bugs,
she would have said there were bugs.

244
00:10:33,667 --> 00:10:35,165
This is you, Ms. Najjar.

245
00:10:35,233 --> 00:10:39,533
"I'll be back tonight,
but I will not return to this house

246
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,367
until this issue is resolved."
And the issue is bugs.

247
00:10:43,433 --> 00:10:44,467
- Yes.
- [Judge Levy] Okay.

248
00:10:44,533 --> 00:10:48,000
"It's too much risk for my dog
and my mom has cats.

249
00:10:48,066 --> 00:10:52,834
I thought it would be done already
considering you had since Thursday.

250
00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:57,233
I understood that they would pull
the carpet and bomb."

251
00:10:57,300 --> 00:10:58,700
This is your broker, sir.

252
00:10:58,767 --> 00:11:00,166
This is your employee.

253
00:11:00,233 --> 00:11:02,066
April 17th now.

254
00:11:02,133 --> 00:11:04,633
She says, "Good. Everything done."

255
00:11:04,700 --> 00:11:06,400
"What did they discover?"

256
00:11:06,467 --> 00:11:08,467
And there's a picture of the stairs.

257
00:11:08,533 --> 00:11:10,367
Who sent you those pictures of the stairs?

258
00:11:10,433 --> 00:11:11,834
- [Amal] The broker.
- [Judge Levy] She wrote,

259
00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:15,300
"Yup, that was the problem",
with a throw-up emoji.

260
00:11:15,367 --> 00:11:19,100
You very smartly say,
"So what did they find?"

261
00:11:19,166 --> 00:11:21,667
Her response, "Bugs."

262
00:11:21,734 --> 00:11:23,300
Your employee.

263
00:11:23,367 --> 00:11:26,367
And if I heard you correct,
you said that your property manager

264
00:11:26,433 --> 00:11:29,600
had been using the same fumigation
company for ten years.

265
00:11:29,667 --> 00:11:30,667
- Yes.
- [Judge Levy] Why didn't you bring

266
00:11:30,734 --> 00:11:31,767
any of those records?

267
00:11:31,834 --> 00:11:34,900
Well, I didn't know I needed
to defend a ten-year history

268
00:11:34,967 --> 00:11:38,700
of her fumigation, but she managed
the property prior to me owning it.

269
00:11:38,767 --> 00:11:41,734
You made it clear
you've never seen a bug there.

270
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,100
Your property manager
never told you about a bug.

271
00:11:45,165 --> 00:11:48,433
But we now know
that your property manager lied to you,

272
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,667
because the property manager, in a text,

273
00:11:50,734 --> 00:11:54,633
told her that there were bugs
and it was in that carpeting.

274
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:59,100
So isn't the best evidence
of your denial of there being bugs

275
00:11:59,165 --> 00:12:02,033
were those records,
and you didn't bring them?

276
00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,233
- I don't have them.
- [Judge Levy] Right. You don't have them.

277
00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:05,633
I have nothing further.

278
00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:06,867
- [Peter] Uh, if I may...
- [Judge Acker] No.

279
00:12:06,934 --> 00:12:08,233
- You don't need to.
- Okay.

280
00:12:08,300 --> 00:12:11,100
You haven't made your case
as far as I'm concerned.

281
00:12:11,166 --> 00:12:13,066
- You have a lot of work to do.
- Uh-hmm.

282
00:12:13,133 --> 00:12:15,667
Because I tell you this, if you think

283
00:12:15,734 --> 00:12:18,967
that I'm gonna find
that you had cause to break a lease

284
00:12:19,033 --> 00:12:22,767
because you showed us two fleas
while outside

285
00:12:22,834 --> 00:12:26,400
and, further to that,
they didn't blow you off.

286
00:12:26,467 --> 00:12:27,500
- They came in.
- No. That's right.

287
00:12:27,567 --> 00:12:28,567
- [Judge Acker] They bombed.
- Uh-hmm.

288
00:12:28,633 --> 00:12:31,834
[Judge Acker] They said, "We're gonna pull
up the carpet," which they did.

289
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:33,533
But you kept complaining

290
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,667
and you kept saying,
"No, no, no. More bugs."

291
00:12:35,734 --> 00:12:38,734
I gotta tell you, if I'm in any place

292
00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,734
and there are roaches in the refrigerator
and fleas behind the oven

293
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,266
and bugs falling out of the sky,
I'm gonna take a picture.

294
00:12:48,333 --> 00:12:51,867
So on the 18th, I did bring my brother.

295
00:12:51,934 --> 00:12:53,200
That was his birthday.

296
00:12:53,266 --> 00:12:55,567
And so he came by to my mom's house.

297
00:12:55,633 --> 00:13:01,100
And my sister and I and my brother's
partner all went to the apartment

298
00:13:01,166 --> 00:13:04,967
because I was excited to show them
that I had finally found a place.

299
00:13:06,033 --> 00:13:10,633
We were all standing in the kitchen,
and then my brother was

300
00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:14,200
complaining that he was
getting--had bites on him.

301
00:13:14,266 --> 00:13:15,633
That was prior.

302
00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:17,333
They had just fumigated again.

303
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,433
[Judge Acker] Why didn't you
bring your brother here?

304
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:21,100
I didn't know that that was an option.

305
00:13:21,166 --> 00:13:23,000
Can you just tell me roughly,

306
00:13:23,066 --> 00:13:25,333
general estimate,
how much money you make a month?

307
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,033
Well, with that job
or you're just talking about, you know...

308
00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:29,800
[Judge Acker]
Generally. You signed the lease.

309
00:13:29,867 --> 00:13:32,467
You know, you were paying
your mom $400 a month.

310
00:13:32,533 --> 00:13:34,165
- [Amal] Uh-hmm.
- You signed a lease for almost

311
00:13:34,233 --> 00:13:37,200
four times that amount that you needed
to get out of pretty quickly.

312
00:13:37,266 --> 00:13:38,900
- Uh-hmm.
- [Judge Acker] It has been suggested

313
00:13:38,967 --> 00:13:41,800
by the defendant as a defense
that you just didn't wanna be there.

314
00:13:41,867 --> 00:13:45,066
So I'm wondering if maybe
you got a little bit in over your head.

315
00:13:45,133 --> 00:13:47,100
Did you get a big raise or something?

316
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,567
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.

317
00:13:51,633 --> 00:13:52,900
I think they were being kind.

318
00:13:52,967 --> 00:13:55,934
And I also think, sir, you were being kind
not to file a countersuit.

319
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,633
If you'd filed one, I would have
considered that very, very carefully.

320
00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:00,934
[dramatic musical sting]

321
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,567
[theme music plays]

322
00:14:04,633 --> 00:14:07,133
[announcer] Amal Najjar
is suing her former landlord,

323
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,600
Peter Perez,
for her rent and security deposit

324
00:14:10,667 --> 00:14:14,867
because she claims fleas
and roaches kept her from living there.

325
00:14:14,934 --> 00:14:19,500
Peter claims Amal just wanted out
of the lease and is making it all up.

326
00:14:19,567 --> 00:14:22,367
It has been suggested
by the defendant as a defense

327
00:14:22,433 --> 00:14:23,800
that you just didn't wanna be there.

328
00:14:23,867 --> 00:14:27,200
So I'm wondering if maybe
you got a little bit in over your head.

329
00:14:27,266 --> 00:14:29,000
Did you get a big raise or something?

330
00:14:29,066 --> 00:14:30,467
- I did, yeah.
- [Judge Acker] How much?

331
00:14:30,533 --> 00:14:36,100
I manage a bike shop,
so I make well over $4,000 a month. Yeah.

332
00:14:36,165 --> 00:14:38,900
You were trying
to get out of a legal obligation

333
00:14:38,967 --> 00:14:41,567
and you have not one picture
of a cockroach,

334
00:14:41,633 --> 00:14:45,367
you have not one picture
of fleas in the apartment.

335
00:14:45,433 --> 00:14:47,400
'Cause, frankly,
I think they were being kind.

336
00:14:47,467 --> 00:14:50,734
And I also think, sir, you were being kind
not to file a countersuit...

337
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,200
- Me too.
- ... because if you'd filed one--

338
00:14:52,266 --> 00:14:53,533
yeah, if you'd filed one,

339
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,066
I would have considered that
very, very carefully.

340
00:14:56,133 --> 00:14:59,734
Because I am not even sure on this record,
even with that admission

341
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,433
By his property manager,
that you get to say, "You know what?

342
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:04,500
I'm out."

343
00:15:04,567 --> 00:15:08,300
Two fleas and a responsive
property manager

344
00:15:08,367 --> 00:15:11,266
do not make a case for breaking a lease.

345
00:15:11,333 --> 00:15:12,467
I have nothing further.

346
00:15:12,533 --> 00:15:14,934
Then we are going to retire
to deliberate at this time.

347
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,166
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.

348
00:15:16,233 --> 00:15:17,500
[Byrd] Court now stands in recess.

349
00:15:17,567 --> 00:15:19,166
Parties are excused.

350
00:15:19,233 --> 00:15:22,233
[dramatic musical sting]

351
00:15:23,367 --> 00:15:26,934
I'm gonna tell you,
I found her testimony very difficult

352
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:31,100
to lift her over the burden of proof
by a preponderance of the evidence.

353
00:15:31,166 --> 00:15:35,767
She contained in boxes items
that would bring bugs anywhere.

354
00:15:35,834 --> 00:15:38,767
It's hard for me to say
that she didn't bring some in,

355
00:15:38,834 --> 00:15:43,066
even the dead ones, because if they were
sitting in a facility for two years,

356
00:15:43,133 --> 00:15:45,133
there could be some dead, some living.

357
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,734
Not one photograph.
That's the thing that drives me crazy.

358
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,900
"My dog had fleas all over.
I didn't take a picture of that.

359
00:15:51,967 --> 00:15:55,200
My refrigerator had roaches.
I didn't take a picture of that.

360
00:15:55,266 --> 00:15:57,233
I didn't take a picture of anything
but these two itty-bitty

361
00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:59,100
things while I was outside."

362
00:15:59,165 --> 00:16:01,100
So I have an issue with that.

363
00:16:01,166 --> 00:16:04,934
The agent of the landlord
who at the time was there

364
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,767
when they bombed the apartment,

365
00:16:06,834 --> 00:16:09,133
and she said,
"When they bombed, what did they find?"

366
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,867
Maybe it's just the way I'm reading it
and that's why text messages

367
00:16:11,934 --> 00:16:13,734
are not always that good.

368
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,667
But she said bugs,
which to me almost sounded like

369
00:16:17,734 --> 00:16:20,533
she was just trying
to get her off of their back.

370
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,200
Bugs. Never says roaches,
never says fleas.

371
00:16:23,266 --> 00:16:26,500
And she was very specific in this case,
the plaintiff.

372
00:16:26,567 --> 00:16:28,233
Fleas and roaches.

373
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:30,133
She says, "We had bugs."

374
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,567
He made a good faith effort
to resolve this with her

375
00:16:32,633 --> 00:16:35,000
by giving her her $2,000 back.

376
00:16:35,066 --> 00:16:38,734
I think that once she refused
all his offers and they came in here,

377
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,266
like he's saying,
everything is off the table

378
00:16:41,333 --> 00:16:43,233
and my inclination
is not to give her anything.

379
00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:45,100
Listen, I think that, in her mind,

380
00:16:45,165 --> 00:16:49,600
she was creating a record
by sending contemporaneous texts

381
00:16:49,667 --> 00:16:53,266
and that she had met,
in her own mind, that proof claim.

382
00:16:53,333 --> 00:16:56,100
And the reason that I believe
that she has met her burden,

383
00:16:56,165 --> 00:16:58,867
that there was an infestation

384
00:16:58,934 --> 00:17:02,767
and that her apartment
was uninhabitable as a result

385
00:17:02,834 --> 00:17:05,433
was the defendant's testimony
when he said,

386
00:17:05,500 --> 00:17:09,500
"My broker never said
that there were any bugs."

387
00:17:09,567 --> 00:17:14,233
And--but for the fact that he did not know

388
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:15,800
that we had that text.

389
00:17:15,867 --> 00:17:17,165
But he doesn't mean she told him.

390
00:17:17,233 --> 00:17:19,000
She was just having these conversations
with this girl, with the plaintiff.

391
00:17:19,066 --> 00:17:21,867
He came in--he came in not knowing

392
00:17:21,934 --> 00:17:25,867
about the text that the plaintiff
and his broker had exchanged.

393
00:17:25,934 --> 00:17:28,867
And so when he came in,
he thought that he'd just be able

394
00:17:28,934 --> 00:17:31,667
to tell us something that
could not be contradicted.

395
00:17:31,734 --> 00:17:35,033
The reason the plaintiff did not feel
it necessary to take photographs

396
00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:36,967
is because she had the representative

397
00:17:37,033 --> 00:17:40,400
of the defendant acknowledging
that the bugs were present.

398
00:17:40,467 --> 00:17:43,400
Not a bug but bugs were present

399
00:17:43,467 --> 00:17:47,533
and that those bugs
came from the disgusting,

400
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:52,834
old carpeting that she suspected
contained them.

401
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,667
But, to your point,
if she's doing this contemporaneously

402
00:17:55,734 --> 00:17:58,433
with seeing the bugs,
just take a picture of the bugs.

403
00:17:58,500 --> 00:17:59,567
But there's not a photograph.

404
00:17:59,633 --> 00:18:01,367
Even in the--she takes
a picture of the house

405
00:18:01,433 --> 00:18:03,200
- when she leaves, there's not a bug.
- She took a video.

406
00:18:03,266 --> 00:18:06,934
She took a video, which everyone could see

407
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,333
fleas jumping on her pant leg.

408
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,834
- But she was outside.
- Two. I saw two fleas outside.

409
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:14,567
- I know. That's...
- I mean, those...

410
00:18:14,633 --> 00:18:16,500
- I saw two fleas.
- [Judge Levy] Those are two more

411
00:18:16,567 --> 00:18:17,934
than she walked in there with.

412
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,266
[Judge DiMango]
And we don't even know they were fleas.

413
00:18:19,333 --> 00:18:20,367
- Anyway...
- [Judge Levy] And so, listen,

414
00:18:20,433 --> 00:18:22,066
I understand what your positions are.

415
00:18:22,133 --> 00:18:26,500
What I'm saying is that there's no legal
requirement that there be photographs.

416
00:18:26,567 --> 00:18:27,667
None.

417
00:18:27,734 --> 00:18:30,834
There needs to be evidence,
some contemporaneous evidence

418
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:36,066
you would expect to see of bugs
or some type of infestation.

419
00:18:36,133 --> 00:18:39,200
She presented that, albeit in text.

420
00:18:39,266 --> 00:18:41,834
- Uh-hmm.
- And she presented it in corroboration

421
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:43,867
from the defendant's employee.

422
00:18:43,934 --> 00:18:47,900
That's, generally speaking,
why I believe that she has met her burden.

423
00:18:47,967 --> 00:18:49,200
And why you'll be dissenting.

424
00:18:49,266 --> 00:18:50,533
[laughter]

425
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,066
Yeah. Yeah. Apparently so.

426
00:18:52,133 --> 00:18:54,734
You know, I--I'm not disputing

427
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,800
that she maybe
found some bugs afterwards.

428
00:18:56,867 --> 00:18:59,200
- [Judge DiMango] Uh-hmm.
- But in order to have a claim

429
00:18:59,266 --> 00:19:02,333
that rises to the level
of uninhabitability,

430
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,734
I need to see more than a text message
that says, "Oh, I found another bug."

431
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,333
I don't know if she found an ant.

432
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,133
I don't know if there was a dead fly.

433
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,900
- I don't know anything...
- [Judge DiMango] Exactly.

434
00:19:10,967 --> 00:19:15,033
... about the nature
and the extent of what she describes

435
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:16,633
as an uninhabitable condition.

436
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,333
I also, in those contemporaneous texts,

437
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,266
have messages from the property manager,

438
00:19:21,333 --> 00:19:23,734
who after the 17th
and pulling up the carpet,

439
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,934
said, "I talked to pest control.

440
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,100
They don't see anything else.
Can you take a picture?"

441
00:19:28,166 --> 00:19:30,834
Because, at this point, they're flummoxed.

442
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:34,767
It is not that hard to take a photograph
of something that you think

443
00:19:34,834 --> 00:19:38,266
is so bad that it excuses you
from your legal obligation.

444
00:19:38,333 --> 00:19:40,266
So she loses the month of rent.

445
00:19:40,333 --> 00:19:41,633
- And what about her security?
- Nothing.

446
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:43,000
- I'll give her nothing.
- I don't wanna give her anything.

447
00:19:43,066 --> 00:19:44,367
- Nothing.
- I would dismiss in its entirety.

448
00:19:44,433 --> 00:19:46,633
- Me too.
- All right. Thank you.

449
00:19:46,700 --> 00:19:50,066
[dramatic musical sting]

450
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,066
[Byrd] Court is back in session.

451
00:19:52,133 --> 00:19:53,834
Parties are reminded
you're still under oath.

452
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:55,066
- [Judge DiMango] Thank you, Byrd.
- [Byrd] You're welcome, Judge.

453
00:19:55,133 --> 00:19:57,800
[Judge DiMango] All right.
Now, we are not a unanimous court.

454
00:19:57,867 --> 00:20:01,000
Judge Acker and I
have the majority view here.

455
00:20:01,066 --> 00:20:04,633
Judge Levy is in the minority view
with this particular case.

456
00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:05,700
He is dissenting.

457
00:20:05,767 --> 00:20:08,400
Judge Levy would have given you back

458
00:20:08,467 --> 00:20:10,567
all your money because he believed that,

459
00:20:10,633 --> 00:20:13,166
based on your testimony,
you met your burden of proof

460
00:20:13,233 --> 00:20:15,700
and that your apartment was uninhabitable.

461
00:20:15,767 --> 00:20:17,500
Judge Acker and I don't feel that way.

462
00:20:17,567 --> 00:20:19,900
So we did not find
that you met that burden of proof,

463
00:20:19,967 --> 00:20:23,166
which is to convince us by a fair
preponderance of the evidence.

464
00:20:23,233 --> 00:20:26,367
The defendant in good faith
did try to negotiate with you

465
00:20:26,433 --> 00:20:29,100
and did offer you
your security deposit returned.

466
00:20:29,166 --> 00:20:30,200
You refused it.

467
00:20:30,266 --> 00:20:32,266
Therefore, all the prior negotiations,

468
00:20:32,333 --> 00:20:34,333
Judge Acker and I felt,
had been washed out.

469
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,200
We are therefore dismissing
your complaint in its entirety.

470
00:20:38,266 --> 00:20:39,734
- Thank you very much.
- [gavel bangs]

471
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,433
[Byrd] This case has now concluded.

472
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,400
Parties are excused. You may step out.

473
00:20:43,467 --> 00:20:46,433
[theme music plays]

474
00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:49,533
First, there was just one flea
that just hopped on my leg.

475
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,033
Well, of course, I wouldn't want anybody
to live in a situation like that.

476
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:54,934
I saw the dead cockroaches.

477
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,967
I think she was trying to better her
situation by saying what she had to say.

478
00:20:58,033 --> 00:21:03,066
I think he just didn't want to pay
the money and now he doesn't have to.

479
00:21:03,133 --> 00:21:04,967
[announcer] Are you being sued?

480
00:21:05,033 --> 00:21:08,200
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.

481
00:21:08,266 --> 00:21:12,433
Find us on social media
at Tribunal Justice.

482
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:15,734
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]