1 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,934 [announcer] Previously on Tribunal Justice. 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,400 There is no control 3 00:00:10,467 --> 00:00:13,767 that you would allow her to have over anything in her life. 4 00:00:13,834 --> 00:00:15,433 That's not the case. I was giving. 5 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:16,700 He harassed me about everything. 6 00:00:16,767 --> 00:00:18,200 I don't recall that. 7 00:00:19,133 --> 00:00:21,500 "She had a boyfriend come over. She slept with somebody. 8 00:00:21,567 --> 00:00:24,433 She didn't do this. I was following her." 9 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:29,133 The behavior of a narcissistic egomaniac, self-righteous sociopath. 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,166 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 11 00:00:53,233 --> 00:00:56,967 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Chico, California. 12 00:00:57,033 --> 00:00:59,900 Is it not a bit reasonable to think that as her partner, 13 00:00:59,967 --> 00:01:03,300 as someone who loved her, that some of this was just about love? 14 00:01:03,367 --> 00:01:05,200 [Christian] Yeah. Of course there's love in it. We share... 15 00:01:05,266 --> 00:01:06,266 [Judge Acker] So it would be fair to say... 16 00:01:06,333 --> 00:01:07,333 Our child is my priority. 17 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,467 And it would be fair to say that when you went into this venture with her, 18 00:01:10,533 --> 00:01:12,700 some of it, at least, was premised on the fact 19 00:01:12,767 --> 00:01:14,300 that you thought you were building a family. 20 00:01:14,367 --> 00:01:15,367 It wasn't so much like, 21 00:01:15,433 --> 00:01:17,166 - "I need 50% of the profit." - Some of it is. 22 00:01:17,233 --> 00:01:19,100 It is "We're trying to do something as a family." 23 00:01:19,166 --> 00:01:20,300 - [Christian] Yes. I... - I understand 24 00:01:20,367 --> 00:01:21,533 you have a witness here, sir. 25 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,133 - I do. - What does your witness have to offer? 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,734 Our witness, uh, did business with Ms. Walters previously 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,233 when she set up an outdoor marketplace. 28 00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:32,133 So her previous business partner has knowledge of her business dealings. 29 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,166 - [Judge Acker] So this is your witness? - Yes. 30 00:01:34,233 --> 00:01:36,300 [Judge Acker] Let's have the witness, please. 31 00:01:36,366 --> 00:01:37,834 State your name for the record. 32 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:39,300 Tatiana Allen. 33 00:01:39,366 --> 00:01:42,600 Ms. Allen, in what capacity do you know Ms. Walters? 34 00:01:42,667 --> 00:01:44,866 [Tatiana] It was an actual outdoor market, 35 00:01:44,934 --> 00:01:47,500 and then she was to get 20% to do 36 00:01:47,567 --> 00:01:51,166 basically, like social media and Instagram. 37 00:01:51,233 --> 00:01:53,366 So she was to get 20% of the business. 38 00:01:53,433 --> 00:01:55,233 The two of you were in this together. 39 00:01:55,300 --> 00:01:56,800 What happened? 40 00:01:56,866 --> 00:01:59,767 Uh, basically, she wanted more 41 00:01:59,834 --> 00:02:05,300 and, um, it evolved into a, um, really awkward situation 42 00:02:05,367 --> 00:02:09,166 where she had been into a couple of fights with different vendors, 43 00:02:09,233 --> 00:02:12,834 'cause she was smoking weed in the parking lot during the event. 44 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:14,500 - How did your business end? - [Tatiana] Yeah. 45 00:02:14,567 --> 00:02:17,800 How did this business relationship between the two of you end? 46 00:02:17,867 --> 00:02:22,633 Uh, she said-- because, uh, I wouldn't let her 47 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,266 kind of control the things she wanted to control, 48 00:02:25,333 --> 00:02:27,400 she said she had to walk away. 49 00:02:27,466 --> 00:02:30,633 She kind of just left me with a lot of loose ends 50 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:32,966 and she had taken money from some of the vendors. 51 00:02:33,033 --> 00:02:35,500 - Um, I had to walk away from... - So she walked away from the business? 52 00:02:35,567 --> 00:02:36,667 - [Tatiana] Yes. - [Judge Acker] Uh, thank you. 53 00:02:36,734 --> 00:02:38,133 I don't know if my colleagues have questions. 54 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,200 [Judge DiMango] I do have a question. 55 00:02:39,266 --> 00:02:42,834 How long before she opened up Late Bloomer did that occur? 56 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:45,033 I don't know, a couple of months after she... 57 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:46,533 [Judge DiMango] After she left that business 58 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:47,934 and then she did the Late Bloomer. 59 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,700 Now, you mentioned that she owed money to people. 60 00:02:49,767 --> 00:02:53,100 Do you have personal knowledge of that or did they tell you that she owes money? 61 00:02:53,166 --> 00:02:54,500 Uh, I have personal knowledge 62 00:02:54,567 --> 00:02:58,867 because I had to actually pay those people back out of my own pocket. 63 00:02:58,934 --> 00:03:02,100 So, personal knowledge in that sense. Yes. 64 00:03:02,166 --> 00:03:04,233 No, I paid everything. 65 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:06,500 - Uh, no, that's not true. [chuckles] - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 66 00:03:06,567 --> 00:03:08,033 Can I ask a question of the witness? 67 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:09,734 - Of course, you can. - Yes. 68 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,667 Ms. Allen, when you say that the defendant, 69 00:03:12,734 --> 00:03:15,467 she was some type of a 20%... 70 00:03:16,466 --> 00:03:18,800 - Yes. Yes. - ... partner or something? 71 00:03:18,867 --> 00:03:21,100 [Judge Levy] Did you sign a lease for that space? 72 00:03:21,166 --> 00:03:22,400 Yeah. I signed a lease. I had... 73 00:03:22,466 --> 00:03:24,700 [Judge Levy] She didn't commit herself to that lease. 74 00:03:24,767 --> 00:03:28,266 Did she obtain insurance for that space? 75 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:29,333 No. 76 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,900 [Judge Levy] Did she advertise your space? 77 00:03:32,966 --> 00:03:34,500 No. We had the-- 78 00:03:34,567 --> 00:03:36,834 basically, the market had its own Instagram. 79 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:39,100 [Judge Levy] Right. Exactly. That's my point. 80 00:03:39,166 --> 00:03:41,500 Because she wasn't a partner of yours. 81 00:03:41,567 --> 00:03:42,567 - Right? - [Tatiana] No. 82 00:03:42,633 --> 00:03:45,500 [Judge Levy] Unlike what the plaintiff here did, 83 00:03:45,567 --> 00:03:46,567 he paid those things. 84 00:03:46,633 --> 00:03:47,867 Are you aware of that? 85 00:03:47,934 --> 00:03:49,333 [Tatiana] That--yes. That is correct. 86 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,000 And it's very familiar in the sense of, 87 00:03:52,066 --> 00:03:55,400 you know, her utilizing her resources 88 00:03:55,466 --> 00:03:57,400 and getting what she can from people, 89 00:03:57,466 --> 00:03:59,900 and then kind of interjecting her own self 90 00:03:59,966 --> 00:04:03,133 and then putting another person kind of on the sideline. 91 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,667 So what you're saying is that is based upon your personal knowledge 92 00:04:06,734 --> 00:04:08,734 how she operates? 93 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,633 - Yes. And as you... - [Judge Levy] Thank you. 94 00:04:10,700 --> 00:04:14,867 I appreciated what you said about swords versus shields, 95 00:04:14,934 --> 00:04:16,500 - 'cause I do really feel as though... - Why, thank you. 96 00:04:16,567 --> 00:04:18,966 ... she leans into her femininity, 97 00:04:19,033 --> 00:04:21,834 and that she's a mother, and she has a small child. 98 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:24,100 And she has--she has called me personally. 99 00:04:24,166 --> 00:04:27,166 I have text messages where she calls me an abuser, 100 00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:30,033 tells me that she's gonna report me to Catalyst 101 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:33,967 because I was, like, talking to Christian at one point. 102 00:04:34,033 --> 00:04:35,332 - Wait. Time out. Time out, time out. - Um... 103 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,734 - Time out, time out, time out, time out. - [Christian] Uh-hmm. 104 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,467 - This is getting a little so operatic. - [Christian] Uh-hmm. 105 00:04:38,533 --> 00:04:42,133 Are you saying that you had personal experience with her 106 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,367 in which she threatened you 107 00:04:44,433 --> 00:04:46,834 - to report you unless you agreed... - Yes. 108 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:47,900 - to financial terms... - [Tatiana] She did. 109 00:04:47,967 --> 00:04:49,400 ... that she was dictating? 110 00:04:49,467 --> 00:04:50,467 - Yeah? - Yes. 111 00:04:50,533 --> 00:04:52,533 [Judge Levy] That's what I thought. Thank you. I got it. 112 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,000 [Judge DiMango] I have some questions. 113 00:04:54,066 --> 00:04:55,600 What was she saying, was that all true? 114 00:04:55,667 --> 00:04:58,332 So, she rented to me a room, 115 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,533 which I started my first shop, 116 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,066 my first physical brick-and-mortar shop. 117 00:05:03,133 --> 00:05:07,233 And, um, she was having trouble paying her rent and her PG&E bill. 118 00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:10,000 So, she was looking for people to rent out her space. 119 00:05:10,066 --> 00:05:11,900 She didn't add me to the lease... 120 00:05:11,967 --> 00:05:13,667 [Judge DiMango] And you weren't involved romantically with her 121 00:05:13,734 --> 00:05:15,266 - that she shouldn't wanna do... - No. Absolutely not. [chuckles] 122 00:05:15,333 --> 00:05:16,332 ... anything for you, you know, in that way? 123 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:17,700 - [Sasha] Um... - But you did a lot of things 124 00:05:17,767 --> 00:05:19,667 - out of love, as you said, correct? - Uh-hmm. Absolutely. 125 00:05:19,734 --> 00:05:22,433 And you did it because that's what partners do with one another. 126 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:24,133 By the way, who has custody of your child? 127 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,500 [Christian] We both do. And by the way, 128 00:05:25,567 --> 00:05:28,033 I watched our son every single Saturday for a year. 129 00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:29,266 - [Judge DiMango] Her son. You said that. - Our son. 130 00:05:29,332 --> 00:05:30,332 - [Judge DiMango] I wrote it down. - Our son. 131 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:31,734 No, no, but that's not what you said before... 132 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:32,900 - [Christian] Our son. - ... 'cause I wrote it down. 133 00:05:32,967 --> 00:05:33,967 - [Christian] Also her son. - I thought it was very... 134 00:05:34,033 --> 00:05:35,467 - She has a son as well. - [Judge DiMango] Well, her son 135 00:05:35,533 --> 00:05:36,533 - is how you called it. - Her son and my son. 136 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,066 [Judge DiMango] Which I find troubling for a man 137 00:05:38,133 --> 00:05:39,367 - who says "I want family." - She has two sons. 138 00:05:39,433 --> 00:05:40,600 [Judge DiMango] One voice. 139 00:05:40,667 --> 00:05:43,767 Because I have also done domestic violence cases... 140 00:05:43,834 --> 00:05:44,834 - [Christian] Yeah. - ... for more years than 141 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:46,100 - I'm gonna wanna brag about. - She's punching me. 142 00:05:46,166 --> 00:05:48,000 - I am not punching her. - But, I am gonna tell you 143 00:05:48,066 --> 00:05:51,667 that I cannot let this go without bringing out the fact 144 00:05:51,734 --> 00:05:54,332 - that to me, in my experience... - Uh-hmm. Yes. 145 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,332 ... this was a relationship riddled with abuse. 146 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,667 - Yes, for both sides. - [Judge DiMango] And not only that, 147 00:05:59,734 --> 00:06:01,400 I have a letter from you 148 00:06:01,467 --> 00:06:05,033 to show that this woman, who finally could get on her own feet, 149 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:06,800 wanted to get you out of her life 150 00:06:06,867 --> 00:06:08,367 - as fast as she could. - [Christian] Uh-hmm. 151 00:06:08,433 --> 00:06:10,100 - And this is a letter from you. - [Christian] Uh-hmm. 152 00:06:10,166 --> 00:06:11,567 - March 26th. - [Christian] Uh-hmm. 153 00:06:11,633 --> 00:06:14,900 [Judge DiMango] "When I came to the shop and found you there with a man," 154 00:06:14,967 --> 00:06:16,800 - 'cause she said you kept going there... - [Christian] Uh-huh. 155 00:06:16,867 --> 00:06:18,400 - ... "it triggered me. - [Christian] Absolutely. 156 00:06:18,467 --> 00:06:21,767 [Judge DiMango] I see patterns that I have caused in our relationship 157 00:06:21,834 --> 00:06:24,834 that have hurt you and made you feel unsafe... 158 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:27,100 - [Christian] Uh-huh. - ... fearful, and trapped." 159 00:06:27,166 --> 00:06:28,767 - That's me acknowledging her feelings. - [Judge DiMango] This is you. 160 00:06:28,834 --> 00:06:30,367 This is you, the abuser talking. 161 00:06:30,433 --> 00:06:31,800 [Christian] That's me acknowledging her feeling. 162 00:06:31,867 --> 00:06:33,500 [Judge DiMango] "Furthermore, I treated you like someone 163 00:06:33,567 --> 00:06:37,367 who had to be managed, taking away your freedom. 164 00:06:37,433 --> 00:06:40,533 As a result, you have lost sleep, been stressed out, 165 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,567 - and uncertain about your future... - Uh-huh. 166 00:06:42,633 --> 00:06:43,900 ... in life and business." 167 00:06:43,967 --> 00:06:45,800 She testified to all of this. 168 00:06:45,867 --> 00:06:47,467 She wants you out of her life. 169 00:06:47,533 --> 00:06:49,734 That's what the $10,000 is for. 170 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:50,800 - This is you. - [Christian] Yup. 171 00:06:50,867 --> 00:06:53,900 I don't have any other questions. I think that you spoke for yourself. 172 00:06:53,967 --> 00:06:55,933 Congratulations on that letter. 173 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,533 That shows real insight. 174 00:06:58,133 --> 00:06:59,233 It shows growth. 175 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:02,500 It shows self-awareness that you recognize that you have problems. 176 00:07:02,567 --> 00:07:04,233 That's what I saw when I read that letter. 177 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:05,333 But you know what? 178 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,867 When that letter was written, 179 00:07:06,934 --> 00:07:08,767 you had already snuck off to court 180 00:07:08,834 --> 00:07:11,967 to get an ex parte secret temporary restraining order. 181 00:07:12,033 --> 00:07:14,133 - Absolutely. - [Judge Levy] Yes, you did. 182 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,433 - By the way, the witness... - [indistinct] 183 00:07:15,500 --> 00:07:18,000 ... who we had on a moment ago, who said to all of us under oath 184 00:07:18,066 --> 00:07:20,900 that she had the same problems with you, 185 00:07:20,967 --> 00:07:22,700 as the plaintiff had with you-- 186 00:07:22,767 --> 00:07:23,800 why would she lie? 187 00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:27,734 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 188 00:07:28,033 --> 00:07:29,166 - You are so afraid of him. - [Judge DiMango] Yeah, because... 189 00:07:29,233 --> 00:07:30,233 You're putting your finger up. 190 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:34,100 "Ha. I'm about to screw, blue, and tattoo you." 191 00:07:34,166 --> 00:07:35,767 [dramatic musical sting] 192 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:39,300 [theme music plays] 193 00:07:39,367 --> 00:07:41,567 [announcer] Christian Kepler is suing ex-girlfriend, 194 00:07:41,633 --> 00:07:44,000 Sasha Walters, for almost $10,000. 195 00:07:44,066 --> 00:07:46,233 Christian claims he wants compensation 196 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:49,066 for being cut out of the business they co-founded. 197 00:07:49,133 --> 00:07:51,767 Sasha maintains they were never business partners. 198 00:07:51,834 --> 00:07:53,834 Her ex is always trying to control her, 199 00:07:53,900 --> 00:07:56,667 and she wants nothing to do with him. 200 00:07:56,734 --> 00:07:59,900 The witness who we had on a moment ago, who said to all of us under oath 201 00:07:59,967 --> 00:08:02,300 that she had the same problems with you, 202 00:08:02,367 --> 00:08:03,967 as the plaintiff had with you-- 203 00:08:04,033 --> 00:08:05,333 why would she lie? 204 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:07,133 I don't know. 205 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,200 [Judge Levy] You don't know. That's exactly right. 206 00:08:09,266 --> 00:08:12,433 Sir, you submitted as exhibit 14 pics 207 00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:14,800 that the defendant posted on social media 208 00:08:14,867 --> 00:08:19,100 on her way to the domestic violence restraining order hearing. 209 00:08:19,166 --> 00:08:20,200 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] Do you remember that? 210 00:08:20,266 --> 00:08:21,700 [Christian] I do. 211 00:08:21,767 --> 00:08:23,567 [Judge Levy] Is that you giving the middle finger? 212 00:08:23,633 --> 00:08:24,734 - To him, yes. - [Christian] Correct. 213 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:25,800 [Judge Levy] This can't be. 214 00:08:25,867 --> 00:08:27,500 You're giving the middle finger to the man 215 00:08:27,567 --> 00:08:30,667 that you are so afraid of. 216 00:08:30,734 --> 00:08:32,033 Through my private story on Instagram because... 217 00:08:32,100 --> 00:08:33,433 [Judge Levy] You are so afraid of him. 218 00:08:33,500 --> 00:08:34,667 You're putting your finger up. 219 00:08:34,734 --> 00:08:37,165 "Ha. I'm going to get an ex parte order. 220 00:08:37,232 --> 00:08:39,767 I'm getting you kicked off this lease. 221 00:08:39,834 --> 00:08:41,165 You don't even know about it. 222 00:08:41,232 --> 00:08:44,567 I'm about to screw, blue, and tattoo you." 223 00:08:44,633 --> 00:08:46,467 Right there. That's how afraid you were. 224 00:08:46,533 --> 00:08:47,567 - When you went to court... - [Sasha] I was afraid. 225 00:08:47,633 --> 00:08:49,433 [Judge Levy] ... and spoke to that judge, ex parte, 226 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:52,633 did you tell him that you posted these? No. 227 00:08:52,700 --> 00:08:55,500 Did you tell the judge that you had previously agreed 228 00:08:55,567 --> 00:08:58,000 to pay him $10,000 for his contribution? 229 00:08:58,066 --> 00:08:59,367 Did you tell him that? 230 00:08:59,433 --> 00:09:01,433 - No. He didn't ask. - [Judge Levy] No? You did not. 231 00:09:01,500 --> 00:09:04,667 The way it goes is this. You went there to get something, right? 232 00:09:04,734 --> 00:09:06,333 - You went to that court to get something. - Peace of mind. 233 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,200 [Judge Levy] What you wanted was an order 234 00:09:08,266 --> 00:09:10,867 excluding him from the business that he started, 235 00:09:10,934 --> 00:09:12,934 - that he was on the lease for. - [Sasha] Just from the building. 236 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,000 - From the building. - [Judge Levy] Right? 237 00:09:14,066 --> 00:09:15,600 Because he was showing up there, inappropriate hours. 238 00:09:15,667 --> 00:09:18,000 He was showing up there. It was his business. 239 00:09:18,066 --> 00:09:19,367 - That's what I'm saying. - [Sasha] To yell at... 240 00:09:19,433 --> 00:09:23,166 [Judge Levy] You were willing to pay him $10,000 to get him off the lease. 241 00:09:23,233 --> 00:09:24,800 Yes, 'cause he wouldn't leave me alone. 242 00:09:24,867 --> 00:09:26,600 - By the way, Tatiana... - Yes. 243 00:09:26,667 --> 00:09:27,767 ... the witness that we just spoke, 244 00:09:27,834 --> 00:09:29,867 you had a conversation with her about the defendant, right? 245 00:09:29,934 --> 00:09:31,033 I have. 246 00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:33,467 Might not have been the best move in hindsight. 247 00:09:33,533 --> 00:09:35,567 - [Christian] Uh-hmm. - But you told the defendant 248 00:09:35,633 --> 00:09:38,400 that you had spoken to her former business partner, right? 249 00:09:38,467 --> 00:09:40,433 That's what got me kicked out of the house. 250 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:41,867 - [laughs] Yeah. - [Christian] Yeah. 251 00:09:41,934 --> 00:09:43,165 - Yeah, it did. - [Christian] Yeah. 252 00:09:43,233 --> 00:09:45,367 What did she tell you when you told her that? 253 00:09:45,433 --> 00:09:48,834 Um, she said that I spoke to her enemy and then--and then I had to leave. 254 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:51,133 - I had to move out. - [Judge Levy] You spoke to her enemy. 255 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:52,700 - [Christian] Yeah. - I think I'm done. 256 00:09:52,767 --> 00:09:53,900 - Thank you. - [Christian] Thank you. Thank you. 257 00:09:53,967 --> 00:09:55,567 - [Judge Acker] For Mr. Kepler... - Uh-hmm. 258 00:09:55,633 --> 00:09:57,734 ... how much do you say the business is worth? 259 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,800 Forty thousand. 260 00:09:58,867 --> 00:10:01,867 Forty thousand. What's your basis for that valuation? 261 00:10:01,934 --> 00:10:07,767 She posted that she makes $2,000 per week, um, as supposed to... 262 00:10:07,834 --> 00:10:09,266 [Judge Acker] I didn't see that documentation. 263 00:10:09,333 --> 00:10:10,867 - No. It's assumption. - [Judge Acker] So you're assuming 264 00:10:10,934 --> 00:10:13,100 - a valuation of $40,000? - Yes. 265 00:10:13,166 --> 00:10:15,200 Valuation, when you're valuing a business... 266 00:10:15,266 --> 00:10:16,266 - [Christian] All right. - ... you don't just look at 267 00:10:16,333 --> 00:10:17,767 how much money you put in. 268 00:10:17,834 --> 00:10:19,166 - [Christian] Well, I have her... - You look at what the debts are... 269 00:10:19,233 --> 00:10:20,233 - [Christian] Yes. - ... of the business. 270 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:21,900 - You look at what the profits are. - That's the 20% margin. 271 00:10:21,967 --> 00:10:24,400 - But do we have evidence of a 20% margin? - [Christian] No, I don't. 272 00:10:24,467 --> 00:10:28,767 Do we have evidence of what the debt is on the business? 273 00:10:28,834 --> 00:10:32,200 Um, no. That--that's been withheld for me at this point. Yeah. 274 00:10:32,266 --> 00:10:34,333 Judge, we're gonna retire to deliberate. 275 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,934 - Thank you both. - [Christian] Thank you. 276 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,367 [Byrd] Court now stands in recess. 277 00:10:37,433 --> 00:10:40,066 This case will be recalled. Parties are excused. 278 00:10:40,133 --> 00:10:43,767 [dramatic musical sting] 279 00:10:44,567 --> 00:10:46,700 There's so much to unpack. 280 00:10:46,767 --> 00:10:50,165 Let me sort of tell you where I am writ large. 281 00:10:50,233 --> 00:10:53,533 It's his burden to prove the existence of a partnership. 282 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:57,133 And he has done something in my view to prove that. 283 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,767 He is on the lease. He did take out these media buys. 284 00:10:59,834 --> 00:11:01,133 He's on the insurance. 285 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,500 I do think that those are things that are consistent with his position, 286 00:11:04,567 --> 00:11:06,867 that he intended to be a partner of some sort. 287 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:08,834 If you're a partner, 288 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:10,400 then you don't necessarily get your money back. 289 00:11:10,467 --> 00:11:13,934 Some of that money goes to expenses. It goes to overhead. 290 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,200 You may be rolling it back into the business. 291 00:11:16,266 --> 00:11:17,567 There's no evidence as to that. 292 00:11:17,633 --> 00:11:19,867 That's why valuation was important to me. 293 00:11:19,934 --> 00:11:22,433 And secondly, if he just wants his money back, 294 00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:24,033 then he's not a partner. It was a loan. 295 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:26,734 And it was a loan with some expectation 296 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,266 that she was gonna pay something back, which maybe she was. 297 00:11:30,333 --> 00:11:33,767 Now, do I think they had a meeting of the minds as to 50%? 298 00:11:33,834 --> 00:11:35,165 Absolutely not. 299 00:11:35,233 --> 00:11:38,100 My problem is, I don't know what that amount is. 300 00:11:38,165 --> 00:11:41,767 He's lacking evidence about what matters, at least to me. 301 00:11:41,834 --> 00:11:45,600 And I'm not suggesting that she's entirely innocent either. 302 00:11:45,667 --> 00:11:47,600 I think that there's a lot of drama there, 303 00:11:47,667 --> 00:11:51,867 and for me, just not enough evidence on which to hang my hat. 304 00:11:51,934 --> 00:11:53,567 I'm inclined to dismiss 305 00:11:53,633 --> 00:11:55,800 because I don't know how to value this business, 306 00:11:55,867 --> 00:11:57,467 if he is in fact a partner, 307 00:11:57,533 --> 00:12:00,400 which means that you don't just get to pull out and take every dime, 308 00:12:00,467 --> 00:12:02,100 you know, when the partnership's over. 309 00:12:02,166 --> 00:12:04,734 But I'm sure one or both of you prove me wrong. 310 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,867 So if I hear you correctly on two grounds, 311 00:12:06,934 --> 00:12:09,000 you would find that he has not met his burden, 312 00:12:09,066 --> 00:12:10,500 and that's where I would stand. 313 00:12:10,567 --> 00:12:14,000 I stand, first of all, in that he might have done things 314 00:12:14,066 --> 00:12:19,000 with the intent of hoping that he would get a percentage or whatever. 315 00:12:19,066 --> 00:12:20,834 But I really think he was giving her things to sell. 316 00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,033 She was selling them. She was giving him the money back. 317 00:12:23,100 --> 00:12:24,700 With regard to the partnership aspect, 318 00:12:24,767 --> 00:12:27,734 there is no evidence that they outlined any terms or agreements. 319 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,500 A lot of this is clouded by the relationship aspect of it, 320 00:12:31,567 --> 00:12:32,734 because people react differently. 321 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,800 They do different things for people when they are in love or they are involved 322 00:12:35,867 --> 00:12:39,834 or what they think they're in love, helping, painting, doing things as a team 323 00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:41,734 for the benefit of the family, 324 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,165 but not necessarily a mutual partnership in that. 325 00:12:45,233 --> 00:12:47,100 I think that letter spoke for itself. 326 00:12:47,165 --> 00:12:49,066 He is somebody who's a very controlling man. 327 00:12:49,133 --> 00:12:53,700 But the bottom line is, on the law, I feel that he did not make his case. 328 00:12:53,767 --> 00:12:59,165 Why in the world would someone commit themselves to a three-year lease, 329 00:12:59,233 --> 00:13:02,266 tens of thousands of dollars of rent 330 00:13:02,333 --> 00:13:04,066 if she flakes out and leaves? 331 00:13:04,133 --> 00:13:05,400 He's in a relationship with her 332 00:13:05,467 --> 00:13:07,567 and he's been abusing her for two and a half years. 333 00:13:07,633 --> 00:13:10,166 Where's she going? She's not going anywhere according to what he sees. 334 00:13:10,233 --> 00:13:13,500 Pat. Pat, listen. Don't say that he's been abusing her for years, 335 00:13:13,567 --> 00:13:15,867 'cause you know what no one testified to? 336 00:13:15,934 --> 00:13:19,767 No one testified to a prior police report of abuse. 337 00:13:19,834 --> 00:13:22,900 No one testified to a prior domestic violence order. 338 00:13:22,967 --> 00:13:26,400 She says that she filed and she never produced them. 339 00:13:26,467 --> 00:13:29,533 So to assume that he is some violent guy 340 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,867 - just because she says it... - No, he's controlling. 341 00:13:31,934 --> 00:13:33,033 - It's different than violent. - It... 342 00:13:33,100 --> 00:13:34,767 - And he wrote the letter himself. - It doesn't make--listen. 343 00:13:34,834 --> 00:13:37,133 He's a--he was a manipulating, controlling person, 344 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,333 which is a form of abuse and he was stalking her. 345 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,066 [laughing] Listen. Listen, at this point, that letter confirmed it to me. 346 00:13:43,133 --> 00:13:45,700 He knows, it's over. It's absolutely done. 347 00:13:45,767 --> 00:13:48,066 We gotta wind down this business that we had together. 348 00:13:48,133 --> 00:13:50,400 The reason the valuation means nothing 349 00:13:50,467 --> 00:13:54,400 is because he gave up any future earnings of that business, 350 00:13:54,467 --> 00:13:57,533 completely, that he would otherwise be entitled to. 351 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:58,734 We have the video. 352 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,000 She's discussing with him how much he's gonna get, 353 00:14:02,066 --> 00:14:05,033 when he's gonna get it, why he's being unreasonable, 354 00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:08,734 all of those things that she's talking to him about. 355 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,667 - I'm not saying he's not also... - But you make a lot of assumptions. 356 00:14:10,734 --> 00:14:12,133 So let me ask you. What's the assumption? 357 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,266 - Why would she want him out? - No. No. 358 00:14:14,333 --> 00:14:15,734 - You missed the point, Pat. - No, I didn't miss it. 359 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,400 - Pat, the point is this. - And here's the mark. 360 00:14:17,467 --> 00:14:20,467 She goes to court and she tells the court, 361 00:14:20,533 --> 00:14:23,233 I want an order that prohibits him from talking to me 362 00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:25,066 about anything except the child. 363 00:14:25,133 --> 00:14:27,200 The judge, only seeing her says, 364 00:14:27,266 --> 00:14:29,567 "Yeah, boy, you look like you're really scared." 365 00:14:29,633 --> 00:14:31,600 Right? The judge doesn't know about the prior threats 366 00:14:31,667 --> 00:14:33,066 she made him in text messages. 367 00:14:33,133 --> 00:14:35,467 Judge doesn't know about her giving the finger on the way to court that day. 368 00:14:35,533 --> 00:14:36,834 - [Judge DiMango] No, she--you know what? - Hold on. Hold... 369 00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:38,967 She was trying to tell you. That was on her private Facebook. 370 00:14:39,033 --> 00:14:40,266 - That it was... - [Judge Levy] Who cares? Pat... 371 00:14:40,333 --> 00:14:42,033 Because you're making it sound like she's not afraid of him, 372 00:14:42,100 --> 00:14:43,367 - but she's telling her friends... - Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat. 373 00:14:43,433 --> 00:14:45,600 - ... basically. - The--Pat, Pat, the point is, 374 00:14:45,667 --> 00:14:49,066 he's done absolutely everything that he could possibly do 375 00:14:49,133 --> 00:14:51,633 besides having a written partnership agreement 376 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:54,667 with the person he plans on spending the rest of his life with, 377 00:14:54,734 --> 00:14:56,900 and the rest of his life in business with. 378 00:14:56,967 --> 00:14:59,500 He does everything humanly possible 379 00:14:59,567 --> 00:15:02,967 to demonstrate that he's doing it in a partnership capacity. 380 00:15:03,033 --> 00:15:06,467 The text messages, he specifically says we're 50/50 partners. 381 00:15:06,533 --> 00:15:08,800 Not one, in all of them, 382 00:15:08,867 --> 00:15:10,934 does she say we're not 50/50 partners. 383 00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:14,834 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 384 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:20,033 If we do not give him back every cent of that $10,000, it is an unjust result. 385 00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:22,266 I am not giving him a penny. I'm telling you right now. 386 00:15:22,333 --> 00:15:23,567 To state the obvious. 387 00:15:23,633 --> 00:15:26,300 Wouldn't it have been nice if they just had an agreement? [chuckles] 388 00:15:26,367 --> 00:15:28,333 [dramatic musical sting] 389 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,400 [theme music plays] 390 00:15:31,467 --> 00:15:34,467 What's your analysis of his right to recovery? 391 00:15:34,533 --> 00:15:38,133 Is it because as a partner he's entitled to these funds back 392 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,133 or is it because he's entitled to refunded? 393 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,433 Of course it's unjust-- it's unjust enrichment for her 394 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:47,266 to take all the fruits of his labors for this partnership. 395 00:15:47,333 --> 00:15:49,400 Forget about 50%, forget about 20%. 396 00:15:49,467 --> 00:15:52,333 He put all of that sweat equity into making the repairs, 397 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:54,333 all of that, which she does not dispute. 398 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,900 And all he's saying is just, "Give me my money back, and I'm gone." 399 00:15:56,967 --> 00:15:59,033 He pulled out of that by telling her, you know what? 400 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:02,066 Now that you haven't shown up, and that's in the text messages, 401 00:16:02,133 --> 00:16:04,000 now, I don't want only $10,000. 402 00:16:04,066 --> 00:16:07,633 Now I'm gonna sit here and, for days, go over everything I have 403 00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:10,233 to get out--all about control. 404 00:16:10,300 --> 00:16:11,400 That's what he was about. 405 00:16:11,467 --> 00:16:13,767 And I don't see an agreement, regardless of whatever 406 00:16:13,834 --> 00:16:15,633 his personal relationship is with her. 407 00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:18,700 - I don't see an agreement. - I think both of them are messy. 408 00:16:18,767 --> 00:16:20,767 So let's put the messiness aside. 409 00:16:20,834 --> 00:16:24,266 What was instructive about the last video we saw 410 00:16:24,333 --> 00:16:26,000 is that it suggested to me 411 00:16:26,066 --> 00:16:28,734 that there was an intention to pay him something. 412 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,834 $10,000 was a settlement offer. 413 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:32,367 - [Judge Levy] That she made. - That they discussed. 414 00:16:32,433 --> 00:16:33,500 - [Judge Levy] No, no, no. - It's hard to tell from that... 415 00:16:33,567 --> 00:16:35,133 - [Judge Acker] I don't know who... - ... who did what first? 416 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:36,934 ... who made the first overture. 417 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,533 She says the offer is $10,000. 418 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,700 That's her statement. 419 00:16:40,767 --> 00:16:43,165 And we can move on with our lives. 420 00:16:43,233 --> 00:16:46,000 But then when the thing fell apart, 'cause her mom left, 421 00:16:46,066 --> 00:16:48,767 instead of saying to him, "Listen, you know I got a problem with my money. 422 00:16:48,834 --> 00:16:50,667 My mom left. I can't do it." What did she do? 423 00:16:50,734 --> 00:16:54,300 She goes to the domestic violence restraining order court 424 00:16:54,367 --> 00:16:56,033 and she makes material omissions 425 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:58,934 and misrepresentations to get something that she knew, 426 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,867 if she were honest, the judge never would've given her. 427 00:17:01,934 --> 00:17:04,099 That, to me, is absolutely outrageous, 428 00:17:04,165 --> 00:17:07,165 but more importantly, it is completely supported 429 00:17:07,233 --> 00:17:10,333 and corroborated by everything that we have. 430 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,400 If we do not give him back every cent of that $10,000, 431 00:17:14,467 --> 00:17:16,700 in my opinion, it is an unjust result. 432 00:17:16,767 --> 00:17:18,934 I am not giving him a penny. I'm telling you right now. 433 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,266 So, you can be unjust if you want, but the bottom line here is, 434 00:17:22,333 --> 00:17:23,967 I don't know what preceded this. 435 00:17:24,032 --> 00:17:27,700 I know that he's asking for money, saying nothing to do with the partnership. 436 00:17:27,767 --> 00:17:31,867 Based on those messages, whatever offer was out there was withdrawn 437 00:17:31,934 --> 00:17:34,400 by either or one of them and there was nothing out there. 438 00:17:34,467 --> 00:17:35,800 It was a clean slate. 439 00:17:35,867 --> 00:17:38,867 So we're now no longer considering enforcing her agreement. 440 00:17:38,934 --> 00:17:43,667 What about Adam's theory that just as a matter of unjust enrichment, 441 00:17:43,734 --> 00:17:46,200 he put this money in, he's kicked out of the business-- 442 00:17:46,266 --> 00:17:48,600 doesn't he get the money back or some portion of it? 443 00:17:48,667 --> 00:17:51,367 Well, I am not putting a price on the things that he did 444 00:17:51,433 --> 00:17:53,700 - as he admitted out of his love... - He did it for love. 445 00:17:53,767 --> 00:17:54,834 ... or whatever. 446 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:58,400 So for me, I'm clean-- I'm clear he's getting nothing. 447 00:17:58,467 --> 00:18:00,667 You're at zero, you're at ten. 448 00:18:00,734 --> 00:18:02,600 Um, to state the obvious, 449 00:18:02,667 --> 00:18:06,600 wouldn't it have been nice if they just had an agreement? [chuckles] 450 00:18:06,667 --> 00:18:07,734 Oh, my. 451 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,834 Um, I think I need to think it through a little bit more. 452 00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:12,300 I need a moment. 453 00:18:12,367 --> 00:18:13,600 Are you leaving the bench? 454 00:18:13,667 --> 00:18:16,734 [laughter] 455 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,000 Uh, I'll decide shortly. 456 00:18:19,066 --> 00:18:20,467 I'm gonna think about it. 457 00:18:20,533 --> 00:18:23,367 [dramatic musical sting] 458 00:18:23,433 --> 00:18:24,767 [Byrd] Court is back in session. 459 00:18:24,834 --> 00:18:27,100 Parties are reminded you're still under oath. 460 00:18:27,166 --> 00:18:28,433 - Thank you, Byrd. - Uh-hmm. 461 00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,567 [Judge Acker] We have deliberated. We've reached a verdict. 462 00:18:30,633 --> 00:18:32,800 Our verdict is not unanimous. 463 00:18:33,367 --> 00:18:35,734 I don't believe you were a partner to her. 464 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,700 You did not have a 50% stake in the business. 465 00:18:38,767 --> 00:18:42,333 And Judge DiMango joins me in that. 466 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,300 And Judge Levy thinks it's kind of irrelevant 467 00:18:45,367 --> 00:18:49,567 whether or not you had a 50% stake and you had a 50% stake. 468 00:18:49,633 --> 00:18:50,767 I don't think you were partners. 469 00:18:50,834 --> 00:18:53,567 I don't think there was a meeting of the minds as to that. 470 00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:55,934 But there's another way of approaching this case, 471 00:18:56,233 --> 00:18:58,700 which is one of unjust enrichment. 472 00:18:58,767 --> 00:19:00,633 And that's where Judge Levy convinced me, 473 00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:05,400 because Judge DiMango is a very strong and vigorous dissent from our verdict. 474 00:19:05,467 --> 00:19:08,700 She thinks you're entitled to nothing and that everything that you did 475 00:19:08,767 --> 00:19:12,934 by and on behalf of the business was for the purpose of the family. 476 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,934 - And you admitted to some of that. - Uh-hmm. 477 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,633 I was almost gonna join her and she and I were about to be the majority. 478 00:19:18,700 --> 00:19:20,500 But I'll tell you where Judge Levy convinced me. 479 00:19:20,567 --> 00:19:24,767 It's because of your continuing exposure to liability on the lease 480 00:19:24,834 --> 00:19:26,133 and other business debts. 481 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,767 You can't simply say, "You're not my partner. Get out. 482 00:19:28,834 --> 00:19:31,000 You sign the lease and now you got nothing." 483 00:19:31,066 --> 00:19:34,200 That's just not fair, because you could skip out of town 484 00:19:34,266 --> 00:19:36,367 and then the landlord sues both of you. 485 00:19:36,433 --> 00:19:41,433 So it's on that very narrow theory that Judge Levy and I are announcing, 486 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:44,333 sir, you have prevailed and met your burden in this case, 487 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,400 and we are going to award you the $9,999 and 99 cents. 488 00:19:49,467 --> 00:19:50,734 - [Christian] Thank you. - [Judge Acker] Good luck to you both, 489 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,567 - especially to your kid. - [Christian] Thank you. 490 00:19:53,467 --> 00:19:54,967 [Byrd] This case is now concluded. 491 00:19:55,033 --> 00:19:57,100 Parties are excused. You may step out. 492 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:03,500 He's a narcissistic abuser, and I couldn't deal with it anymore. 493 00:20:03,567 --> 00:20:05,033 The truth is not being told by her. 494 00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:09,967 He was, like, circling me constantly, just overwhelming me and it broke me down. 495 00:20:10,033 --> 00:20:13,467 It's sad 'cause, uh, there have definitely been issues on both sides. 496 00:20:13,533 --> 00:20:17,033 I hope he finds love and, like, can enjoy the rest of his life. 497 00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:19,834 I wish her the best of success and I hope she gets the help she needs. 498 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:23,333 It's a bummer that he's just such an unhappy person. 499 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,100 I came out victorious, and I'm happy about that. 500 00:20:25,166 --> 00:20:26,633 [announcer] Got family drama? 501 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:29,867 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 502 00:20:29,934 --> 00:20:34,133 Find us on social media at Tribunal Justice. 503 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:37,433 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]