1 00:00:06,233 --> 00:00:08,600 I was getting constant text messages, phone calls. 2 00:00:08,667 --> 00:00:11,033 I really just wanted him to stop. 3 00:00:11,967 --> 00:00:14,100 I am afraid of you. My heart's racing. 4 00:00:14,166 --> 00:00:16,567 You need to stop harassing me. 5 00:00:16,633 --> 00:00:18,100 That is appalling. 6 00:00:18,166 --> 00:00:20,633 I loved her, and I did what she asked because I cared about her. 7 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:21,867 Oh, my God. 8 00:00:21,934 --> 00:00:23,667 Sorry, I'm a little thrown off here. I... 9 00:00:23,734 --> 00:00:25,133 Yeah, you're a little thrown off. I know why, 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:26,934 because you're not in control in here. 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,867 [announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice. 12 00:00:29,934 --> 00:00:33,467 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 13 00:00:51,367 --> 00:00:54,633 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Chico, California. 14 00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:56,967 This is case number 2025 15 00:00:57,033 --> 00:01:00,367 on the count of the matter of Kepler versus Walters. 16 00:01:00,433 --> 00:01:01,700 - [Judge Acker] Thank you, Byrd. - [Byrd] Uh-hmm. 17 00:01:01,767 --> 00:01:03,100 You may be seated. 18 00:01:03,166 --> 00:01:06,767 [Judge Acker] Mr. Kepler, you and the defendant, you have a child together, 19 00:01:06,834 --> 00:01:12,834 and you are now bringing a claim against her for $9,999.99, 20 00:01:12,900 --> 00:01:17,265 which is the amount that you say she agreed to pay you to buy out 21 00:01:17,333 --> 00:01:22,367 your stake in the vintage clothing store that you maintain you own together. 22 00:01:22,433 --> 00:01:26,767 You describe it as a 50% partnership held by each of you. 23 00:01:26,834 --> 00:01:29,567 Ms. Walters, you say that this was your business. 24 00:01:29,633 --> 00:01:33,700 Anything he did was simply because he was trying to help you out. 25 00:01:33,767 --> 00:01:35,866 - You deny owing him anything. - [Sasha] Correct. 26 00:01:35,934 --> 00:01:39,633 [Judge Acker] I'm also going to point out that there's a restraining order 27 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,967 filed by you, ma'am, but it hasn't yet been issued from the court 28 00:01:43,033 --> 00:01:44,834 because they're finalizing the order. 29 00:01:44,900 --> 00:01:46,166 I'm putting that out there 30 00:01:46,233 --> 00:01:50,700 at the top because I know that matters between you are quite contentious. 31 00:01:50,767 --> 00:01:53,033 And there's no written agreement in this case, 32 00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:54,200 - correct? - [Sasha] Correct. 33 00:01:54,265 --> 00:01:57,633 [Judge Acker] So let's start at the beginning and talk about this shop. 34 00:01:57,700 --> 00:02:01,367 There's a brick-and-mortar store called Late Bloomer, correct? 35 00:02:01,433 --> 00:02:03,300 - [Sasha] Correct. - Yes. That's the brand associated 36 00:02:03,367 --> 00:02:05,900 with the lease that I'm a lessor. 37 00:02:05,967 --> 00:02:08,866 [Judge Acker] Can we put a picture of the store up? 38 00:02:08,934 --> 00:02:10,967 - There's a brick-and-mortar store. - [Christian] Uh-hmm. 39 00:02:11,032 --> 00:02:12,633 [Judge Acker] There's also a parking lot, correct? 40 00:02:12,700 --> 00:02:14,033 [Christian] Correct. 41 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:17,133 [Judge Acker] Now, the brick-and-mortar store, what happens there? 42 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:18,700 - How does it operate? - Yes. Yes. 43 00:02:18,767 --> 00:02:20,500 People bring in clothing for consignment. 44 00:02:20,567 --> 00:02:24,767 Also, I spend a lot of time going to thrift stores, buying inventory, 45 00:02:24,834 --> 00:02:26,767 building the shop out, 46 00:02:26,834 --> 00:02:29,900 painting walls, procuring insurance. 47 00:02:29,966 --> 00:02:31,600 Sasha and I, we were living together at the time 48 00:02:31,667 --> 00:02:34,966 and she said, "Let's become 50% partners in this business." 49 00:02:35,033 --> 00:02:37,133 [Judge Acker] Did she say those words, "Let's become 50%?" 50 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:38,200 [Christian] Yes, she did. 51 00:02:38,266 --> 00:02:39,367 [Judge Acker] Is that right, ma'am? 52 00:02:39,433 --> 00:02:44,966 We went into this lease as not business owners together. 53 00:02:45,033 --> 00:02:48,900 There was the vintage shop and the parking lot across the street 54 00:02:48,966 --> 00:02:51,966 was gonna be used for markets with vendors. 55 00:02:52,033 --> 00:02:54,834 And that was going to be his stream of revenue. 56 00:02:54,900 --> 00:03:00,100 I was very clear with him that the resale shop was mine, 57 00:03:00,166 --> 00:03:04,767 because there were a lot of control issues in our romantic relationship 58 00:03:04,834 --> 00:03:09,834 that made me hesitant to go forward with this lease with him. 59 00:03:09,900 --> 00:03:13,133 But I set my good judgment aside 60 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,166 - and I went ahead with it and I... - [Judge Acker] Oh, okay. I got it. 61 00:03:16,233 --> 00:03:19,367 Because, Mr. Kepler, at the root of your complaint... 62 00:03:19,433 --> 00:03:21,500 - [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... is the fact that she wasn't letting 63 00:03:21,567 --> 00:03:23,767 you have a certain degree of control in the store. 64 00:03:23,834 --> 00:03:27,466 Your Honor, there's no reason for me to rent a public space 65 00:03:27,533 --> 00:03:30,166 if I'm gonna be doing a pop-up market across the street 66 00:03:30,233 --> 00:03:31,767 in someone else's parking lot. 67 00:03:31,834 --> 00:03:34,867 And so the whole reason for getting this lease 68 00:03:34,934 --> 00:03:38,900 is for us to both be able to have our marketplaces inside the shop. 69 00:03:38,966 --> 00:03:42,000 So, Mr. Kepler, let's go back to your contention 70 00:03:42,066 --> 00:03:44,166 - that you were 50% partners, because... - Yes. 71 00:03:44,233 --> 00:03:47,367 ... as I understand it, in October, there was an incident 72 00:03:47,433 --> 00:03:51,100 where you claimed that she sold some of your merchandise 73 00:03:51,166 --> 00:03:52,767 and owed you $22 74 00:03:52,834 --> 00:03:54,433 - and it caused a big ruckus. - Your Honor, we're jumping ahead-- 75 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:56,700 we're jumping ahead past the original issue. 76 00:03:56,767 --> 00:03:58,767 - And I have a witness for that... - [Christian] That's [indistinct]. 77 00:03:58,834 --> 00:04:01,100 [Judge Acker] I am finding it remarkable 78 00:04:01,166 --> 00:04:05,500 that I am charged with being one of the three people to determine your case, 79 00:04:05,567 --> 00:04:09,033 and you seem to find the questions I'm asking you entirely irrelevant. 80 00:04:09,100 --> 00:04:11,100 - I apologize. I just feel like... - [Judge Acker] Ma'am, can you tell me 81 00:04:11,166 --> 00:04:15,700 what happened in October when he had to come to the shop and get $22? 82 00:04:15,767 --> 00:04:19,834 [Sasha] So, I was at work during shop hours when we were open, 83 00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:24,233 but he was calling me and asking for the money for that sale. 84 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:26,867 So, I was just telling him, "I'm at work, 85 00:04:26,934 --> 00:04:29,967 I'm in the middle of dealing with customers, 86 00:04:30,033 --> 00:04:34,433 and I'm not gonna pay you the $22 right now, like you're asking me to." 87 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:36,100 And I hung up the phone. 88 00:04:36,166 --> 00:04:38,367 Then he ends up showing up at the shop, 89 00:04:38,433 --> 00:04:43,600 I believe it's like 8:00 or 9:00 at night, and barges in. 90 00:04:43,667 --> 00:04:47,400 - Our son is in the car outside, crying... - [Judge Acker] How old is your son? 91 00:04:47,467 --> 00:04:49,100 He was two at the time. 92 00:04:49,166 --> 00:04:51,967 I can hear him crying in the car outside. 93 00:04:52,033 --> 00:04:53,300 And he barges into the shop 94 00:04:53,367 --> 00:04:56,767 and he's like, "Why can't you just pay me the money?" 95 00:04:56,834 --> 00:04:59,767 My friend, Katherine, was there with me. 96 00:04:59,834 --> 00:05:01,533 I have her as a witness. 97 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,800 - May we hear from your witness? - [Sasha] Yes. 98 00:05:03,867 --> 00:05:06,567 [Judge Acker] Ma'am, could you please state your name for the record? 99 00:05:06,633 --> 00:05:08,233 Katherine Szyndler. 100 00:05:08,300 --> 00:05:12,100 You've been called by the defendant as a witness in this case, 101 00:05:12,166 --> 00:05:15,100 and specifically I understand that you have information 102 00:05:15,166 --> 00:05:18,033 about an incident in October of last year. 103 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:20,166 What did you witness on that occasion? 104 00:05:21,166 --> 00:05:22,834 [Katherine] Yes. I was at the store. 105 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:27,500 I was down for a visit, and he calls, 106 00:05:27,567 --> 00:05:31,667 and I can see she's getting upset, and they get off the phone. 107 00:05:31,734 --> 00:05:34,900 I said, "What's happening?" She's like, "He wants $22." 108 00:05:34,967 --> 00:05:37,300 And I was like, "Well, I don't know what you're gonna do." 109 00:05:37,367 --> 00:05:39,900 So I would say not even ten minutes later, 110 00:05:39,967 --> 00:05:43,700 he shows up yelling in the store, 111 00:05:43,767 --> 00:05:45,900 - "I want my $22." - [Christian] That is not what happened. 112 00:05:45,967 --> 00:05:47,734 And at that time, 113 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,300 me, I'm a--I'm a person of logic, and I said, 114 00:05:52,367 --> 00:05:56,066 "Okay. I'm just gonna grab money out of my purse and get him out of here." 115 00:05:56,133 --> 00:05:59,233 And I said, "Here's your $22 and you can keep the rest." 116 00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:01,800 I don't have anything further for you. 117 00:06:01,867 --> 00:06:03,300 Thank you, ma'am. 118 00:06:03,367 --> 00:06:07,000 Can we put up exhibit number one, please, the text exchange? 119 00:06:07,467 --> 00:06:10,900 I want to point out, "Let me do the math and I'll get it back to you." 120 00:06:10,967 --> 00:06:14,767 "Nope, offer is off the table now and we can go to court." 121 00:06:14,834 --> 00:06:16,000 Now, as I understand, 122 00:06:16,066 --> 00:06:18,433 this was meant to prove your position 123 00:06:18,500 --> 00:06:20,367 that she'd agreed to pay you this money 124 00:06:20,433 --> 00:06:22,100 in order to get you off of the lease, correct? 125 00:06:22,166 --> 00:06:24,667 - Uh-hmm. Correct. - [Judge Acker] So, Ms. Walters, 126 00:06:24,734 --> 00:06:26,700 what was that $10,000 for? 127 00:06:26,767 --> 00:06:28,667 To stop harassing me. 128 00:06:28,734 --> 00:06:31,433 I was getting constant text messages, phone calls. 129 00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:35,900 He would show up at the shop and cause a scene. 130 00:06:35,967 --> 00:06:38,533 Um, I really just wanted him to stop. 131 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,400 - [Judge Acker] Right off the bat, sir... - Yeah. 132 00:06:40,467 --> 00:06:42,300 ... this is not evidence of an agreement... 133 00:06:42,367 --> 00:06:44,400 - [Christian] Yeah. - ... to get you out of the business. 134 00:06:44,467 --> 00:06:47,734 This is evidence of an agreement to try to settle a dispute. 135 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,933 So, as I see it, you've got quite a ways to go. 136 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,433 I'm gonna pass the case now to Judge DiMango. 137 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:55,967 You're not really here, sir, for determination of your partnership 138 00:06:56,033 --> 00:06:57,233 or the value of it. 139 00:06:57,300 --> 00:06:58,433 That's not why you're really here... 140 00:06:58,500 --> 00:06:59,500 - I'm... - [Judge DiMango] ... because I think 141 00:06:59,567 --> 00:07:00,800 you know there was no partnership. 142 00:07:00,867 --> 00:07:04,166 [Christian] I'm here for our son and, yes, I was--I was a partner. 143 00:07:04,233 --> 00:07:05,233 - I am a partner. - [Judge DiMango] Now... 144 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:06,567 She agreed--she agreed with me. 145 00:07:06,633 --> 00:07:08,967 Whether it's in writing or not, she made an agreement with me. 146 00:07:09,033 --> 00:07:11,133 [Judge DiMango] Yeah, I understand that that's your position, 147 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,400 but there's nothing in these papers 148 00:07:13,467 --> 00:07:16,633 which indicate anything about partnership at all. 149 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:19,033 - Everything you submitted to us... - Uh-hmm. 150 00:07:19,100 --> 00:07:21,800 ... had to do with what a horrible person she was 151 00:07:21,867 --> 00:07:23,700 and how wonderful you are. 152 00:07:23,767 --> 00:07:25,033 - I don't recall that. - [Judge DiMango] You don't? 153 00:07:25,100 --> 00:07:26,567 - No. - I'm--maybe you have 154 00:07:26,633 --> 00:07:27,800 too many papers to read. 155 00:07:29,233 --> 00:07:31,500 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 156 00:07:31,567 --> 00:07:34,033 I loved her and I did what she asked because I cared. 157 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:35,633 - Oh, my God. - [Christian] I... 158 00:07:35,700 --> 00:07:37,332 Please don't put me in that place. 159 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:38,800 [dramatic musical sting] 160 00:07:40,633 --> 00:07:42,500 [theme music plays] 161 00:07:42,567 --> 00:07:45,700 [announcer] Christian Kepler is suing ex-girlfriend Sasha Walters 162 00:07:45,767 --> 00:07:47,133 for almost $10,000. 163 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,667 Christian claims he wants compensation 164 00:07:49,734 --> 00:07:52,100 for being cut out of the business they co-founded. 165 00:07:52,166 --> 00:07:54,967 Sasha maintains they were never business partners. 166 00:07:55,033 --> 00:07:59,834 Her ex is always trying to control her and she wants nothing to do with him. 167 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:02,233 When I looked through the papers when I first read it, 168 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:04,200 everything I read indicated to me 169 00:08:04,266 --> 00:08:07,900 that you had no intention of making him a partner. 170 00:08:07,967 --> 00:08:11,633 So we really have to glean whether or not there was a meeting of the minds 171 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,033 from the things that occurred. 172 00:08:13,100 --> 00:08:16,900 When you were selling things, that money wasn't going back into the business. 173 00:08:16,967 --> 00:08:20,800 That was going to you because you were not part of the business and the profits. 174 00:08:20,867 --> 00:08:23,533 You don't have a public section in the store, do you? 175 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,500 - They wrote newspaper articles. - I was denied it... 176 00:08:25,567 --> 00:08:26,967 [Judge DiMango] They didn't put your name in it. 177 00:08:27,033 --> 00:08:29,033 - Right. - Because it's all in your head. 178 00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:31,000 It's not what the reality was. 179 00:08:31,066 --> 00:08:33,100 - That's our agreement that we made and... - [Judge DiMango] No... 180 00:08:33,165 --> 00:08:35,133 - ... I can't prove it. I cannot prove it. - [Judge DiMango] There you go. 181 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,100 - I cannot prove it. - You can't prove it. 182 00:08:37,165 --> 00:08:39,033 - So... - No. I can only prove that I have a lease 183 00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:41,000 on a business where I'm not allowed to do public business. 184 00:08:41,066 --> 00:08:44,367 Who actually was choosing what to put out on the floor and to display? 185 00:08:44,433 --> 00:08:46,233 [Christian] I bought many things and put them out and she would... 186 00:08:46,300 --> 00:08:47,433 - Was that you, ma'am? - [Sasha] That was me. 187 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:49,367 - [Christian] I was just vetoed. - There were a few items 188 00:08:49,433 --> 00:08:50,367 - that I didn't feel were appropriate. - [Judge DiMango] You were vetoed. 189 00:08:50,433 --> 00:08:52,967 - [Christian] Right. - The point, you had no authority 190 00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:55,500 because you were not a partner in the business. 191 00:08:55,567 --> 00:08:57,900 I loved her and I did what she asked because I cared... 192 00:08:57,967 --> 00:08:59,165 - Oh, my God. - [Christian] I... 193 00:08:59,233 --> 00:09:01,767 Please don't put me in that place because love... 194 00:09:01,834 --> 00:09:03,166 - [Christian] I did... - [Judge DiMango] ... is not displayed 195 00:09:03,233 --> 00:09:07,633 in this relationship because orders of protection, being followed, 196 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:12,834 being stalked, involving your child is just the behavior of a narcissistic, 197 00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:15,700 egomaniac, self-righteous sociopath. 198 00:09:15,767 --> 00:09:18,567 And that's just a brief description of the things 199 00:09:18,633 --> 00:09:21,367 - that I read in what you submitted. - Interesting. 200 00:09:21,433 --> 00:09:22,767 It's really not interesting. 201 00:09:22,834 --> 00:09:23,767 - It's really criminal. - [Christian] I disagree. 202 00:09:23,834 --> 00:09:26,633 I went into this trusting that we were partners. 203 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:29,500 I gave her full control, trusting that on the back end, 204 00:09:30,033 --> 00:09:32,567 she would honor her commitment to me, and that did not happen. 205 00:09:32,633 --> 00:09:36,967 Ma'am, it wasn't clear to me whether or not the items were being allowed 206 00:09:37,033 --> 00:09:39,600 because you felt he was a partner there 207 00:09:39,667 --> 00:09:43,133 or because you really had no choice because he's so controlling. 208 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:44,433 - So, please... - I just [indistinct]. 209 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:45,633 [Judge DiMango] ... why did you put his property out? 210 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:47,467 It was a little of both. 211 00:09:47,533 --> 00:09:50,367 I felt like if I didn't, there would be a problem, 212 00:09:50,433 --> 00:09:52,433 but certain things I wouldn't allow. 213 00:09:52,500 --> 00:09:54,100 [Judge DiMango] Within that store, how much of the property 214 00:09:54,165 --> 00:09:55,767 that you were selling were his? 215 00:09:55,834 --> 00:09:58,033 I'd say 20%, not very much. 216 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:02,233 And what would you calculate your percentage of things in her store? 217 00:10:02,300 --> 00:10:03,300 What would it be? 218 00:10:03,367 --> 00:10:06,433 Um, I would say 20% is probably accurate and... 219 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:09,600 [Judge DiMango] So you were a 50% owner who contributed 20%, 220 00:10:09,667 --> 00:10:11,033 and the balance of this was hers? 221 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:12,600 Is that your position here? No. 222 00:10:12,667 --> 00:10:15,033 [Christian] My position is that I could've been the one 223 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:18,033 to receive the donations and the items. 224 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:20,233 - And I allowed her the... - [Judge DiMango] Oh. That... 225 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:21,300 - [Christian] ... allowed her to do that. - You know what? 226 00:10:21,367 --> 00:10:23,567 That's the whole thing about you. You're always giving her permission. 227 00:10:23,633 --> 00:10:24,900 - You give her permission to go out. - [Christian] I didn't-- 228 00:10:24,967 --> 00:10:25,967 I didn't insist that I should have it, too. 229 00:10:26,033 --> 00:10:27,033 [Judge DiMango] You give her permission... 230 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:28,600 I could say I should get some of those things. 231 00:10:28,667 --> 00:10:29,967 - I could get some of those things. - Well, you are 50% owner. 232 00:10:30,033 --> 00:10:32,165 Why wouldn't you both be doing it? Because you weren't 50% owner. 233 00:10:32,233 --> 00:10:34,400 - [Christian] Because I allowed her to... - Where? 234 00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:35,633 - ... take full control. - Show me where. 235 00:10:35,700 --> 00:10:40,333 There is no control that you would allow her to have over anything in her life. 236 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:45,033 That's not the case. I was giving-- I was building, investing, giving. 237 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:46,900 - You--where? Where? - [Christian] And I--and I did not... 238 00:10:46,967 --> 00:10:48,233 - Look. All of this stuff here. - [Christian] ... ask for further control. 239 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:49,900 - I allowed her to have... - All of this. You know what? 240 00:10:49,967 --> 00:10:53,033 Nothing in here about you building, nothing in here about your percentage, 241 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:54,900 nothing in here about your partnership agreement. 242 00:10:54,967 --> 00:10:57,033 Everything--she had a boyfriend come over. 243 00:10:57,100 --> 00:10:59,033 She slept with somebody. She didn't do this. 244 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:00,633 She was driving around in circles. 245 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:02,567 - I was following her. It's midnight... - [Christian] I did not--I did not... 246 00:11:02,633 --> 00:11:04,133 [Judge DiMango] ... I left my son in the car. 247 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,667 Yes. Everything here is about that. 248 00:11:06,734 --> 00:11:09,166 And the problem you have is that for once in her life... 249 00:11:09,233 --> 00:11:11,633 - [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... she did not relinquish control 250 00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:14,633 to you over something because it was important to her. 251 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:17,233 [chuckles] Sorry, I'm a little thrown off here. I... 252 00:11:17,300 --> 00:11:19,066 [Judge DiMango] Yeah, you're a little thrown off, I know why. 253 00:11:19,133 --> 00:11:21,600 - Because you're not control in here. - I'm getting a lot and I gave everything 254 00:11:21,667 --> 00:11:22,667 - I had, okay? - [Judge DiMango] Judge Levy? 255 00:11:23,834 --> 00:11:25,367 Things don't look good for you right now. 256 00:11:25,433 --> 00:11:27,100 No. This is--this is embarrassing. 257 00:11:27,166 --> 00:11:30,567 It's a misrepresentation of my understanding of the situation. 258 00:11:30,633 --> 00:11:32,033 - [Judge Levy] Listen, Mr. Kepler. - [Christian] Yeah. 259 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:33,233 [Judge Levy] Don't give up yet, my man. 260 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:34,700 Don't give up yet. 261 00:11:34,767 --> 00:11:38,300 And, man, I've seen just the opposite. 262 00:11:38,367 --> 00:11:42,300 I've seen orders of protection used as swords and not shields. 263 00:11:42,367 --> 00:11:44,233 - [Christian] Uh-hmm. - [Judge Levy] I've seen women go into 264 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:46,200 family court and criminal court 265 00:11:46,266 --> 00:11:49,165 and just abuse the hell out of the system, manipulate. 266 00:11:49,233 --> 00:11:51,433 - You didn't do that here, did you? - I did not, Your Honor. 267 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:52,633 - [Judge Levy] No. Of course not. - [Christian] Your Honor... 268 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:53,967 [Judge Levy] You don't have to raise your hand. 269 00:11:54,033 --> 00:11:56,233 Because, Ms. Walters, you cannot have been any more clear. 270 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:58,433 There wasn't even a partnership. 271 00:11:58,500 --> 00:11:59,834 Not with Late Bloomer. 272 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:05,633 So then explain to me this invoice dated September 7th to the 10th of 2022. 273 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:07,233 So that's right when the business starts. 274 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:08,467 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] Correct? 275 00:12:08,533 --> 00:12:11,100 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] Christian Nicholas Kepler. 276 00:12:11,166 --> 00:12:12,367 - Business name... - [Sasha] It's a... 277 00:12:12,433 --> 00:12:18,400 ... Late Bloomer Vintage Boutique hosting at 6th Street Vintage Market on Saturday. 278 00:12:18,467 --> 00:12:22,700 He took it upon himself to take out those ads, I had nothing to do with the ads. 279 00:12:22,767 --> 00:12:23,767 - He insisted... - [Judge Levy] You heard the--ma'am, 280 00:12:23,834 --> 00:12:24,834 you heard the ads. 281 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:27,166 When you heard them, you didn't tell him, "Hey, stop doing that, 282 00:12:27,233 --> 00:12:28,266 you don't own the business." 283 00:12:28,333 --> 00:12:29,767 You didn't say that, did you? 284 00:12:29,834 --> 00:12:31,200 - I did not. - [Judge Levy] No. 285 00:12:31,266 --> 00:12:33,433 Did you get insurance for your business? 286 00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,967 - He acquired the insurance. - [Judge Levy] He did? 287 00:12:36,033 --> 00:12:38,500 That's something that a partner would be expected to do. 288 00:12:38,567 --> 00:12:41,934 What else do partners do? Psst. 289 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,500 - Sign leases. - [Christian] They sign leases. 290 00:12:43,567 --> 00:12:44,900 - That's correct. - [Judge Levy] Sign leases. 291 00:12:44,967 --> 00:12:47,500 - And they pay half the rent. Yeah. - [Judge Levy] Sign leases. 292 00:12:47,567 --> 00:12:49,165 And did he pay the rent? 293 00:12:49,233 --> 00:12:52,967 He put down to the down payment, which was... 294 00:12:53,033 --> 00:12:54,467 [Judge Levy] Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. 295 00:12:54,533 --> 00:12:57,867 What was it, like a $500 deposit, an $800 deposit? 296 00:12:57,934 --> 00:13:00,100 No, it was for six months upfront for the... 297 00:13:00,166 --> 00:13:03,367 - [Christian] For thousands. - [Judge Levy] It was $6,000. 298 00:13:03,433 --> 00:13:04,934 - [Sasha] Correct. - [Judge Levy] He put it up. 299 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,467 What, as just an employee employees put up deposits now? 300 00:13:08,533 --> 00:13:11,367 No, he offered as my romantic partner. 301 00:13:11,433 --> 00:13:13,400 [Judge Levy] Of course, as your romantic partner. I got that. 302 00:13:13,467 --> 00:13:15,633 What else do partners do? 303 00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:17,667 Do partners negotiate leases? 304 00:13:18,333 --> 00:13:20,567 - [Christian] Yeah. Yes, they do. - Yes, they do. 305 00:13:20,633 --> 00:13:22,367 - [Christian] Yes. - It's the email that I saw 306 00:13:22,433 --> 00:13:23,633 with the landlord... 307 00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:24,767 - [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... was from you... 308 00:13:24,834 --> 00:13:27,700 - [Christian] Yeah. - ... negotiating his requested $8,500 309 00:13:27,767 --> 00:13:29,633 - down to what? - $6,000. 310 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:31,700 [Judge Levy] $6,000. He sent that email. 311 00:13:31,767 --> 00:13:33,300 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] And in addition, 312 00:13:33,367 --> 00:13:35,233 what did you put in that email? Do you remember? 313 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:38,767 What else were you gonna do to the business, to your business? 314 00:13:38,834 --> 00:13:40,300 - To renovate it. - [Judge Levy] Renovate it. 315 00:13:40,367 --> 00:13:42,367 - Yeah. - You know who renovates space? 316 00:13:42,433 --> 00:13:45,033 - Owners. - I'd like to point out the paint 317 00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:46,300 on my pants, you know. They're the paint... 318 00:13:46,367 --> 00:13:48,033 I don't need to see the paint on your pants. 319 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:49,500 - [Sasha] He insisted... - [Judge Levy] Okay. 320 00:13:49,567 --> 00:13:50,767 [Sasha] "... I'm gonna paint this wall." 321 00:13:50,834 --> 00:13:52,233 [Judge Levy] Okay. He insisted. 322 00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:55,567 And he provided you with a detailed spreadsheet and showing you the receipts, 323 00:13:55,633 --> 00:13:59,800 and that spreadsheet, by the way, showed over $16,000. 324 00:13:59,867 --> 00:14:01,433 [Christian] That's accurate, Your Honor. 325 00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,200 - I don't believe so. - [Judge Levy] Really? 326 00:14:03,266 --> 00:14:05,767 [Sasha] There's no receipts that are connected to those purchases. 327 00:14:05,834 --> 00:14:07,367 - Those are just in his head... - [Christian] There are many... 328 00:14:07,433 --> 00:14:08,633 - ... like the rest of the story. - [Judge Levy] Oh, hold on. 329 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:11,433 There were no receipts? Put them down. 330 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:14,667 By the way, ma'am, in March of 2023, 331 00:14:14,734 --> 00:14:17,667 plaintiff claims that you offered him $10,000 332 00:14:17,734 --> 00:14:20,834 if he would forfeit his stake in the business and vacate the lease. 333 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:22,667 Do you admit that or deny that? 334 00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:26,467 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 335 00:14:26,533 --> 00:14:30,967 [Sasha] Every time I come around you, I'm shaking because you don't understand 336 00:14:31,033 --> 00:14:33,165 how much space I need from you. 337 00:14:33,233 --> 00:14:34,333 That is appalling. 338 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,700 However, sir, I heard you say, 339 00:14:36,767 --> 00:14:37,967 "But I loved her." 340 00:14:38,033 --> 00:14:39,367 [dramatic musical sting] 341 00:14:41,266 --> 00:14:43,066 [theme music plays] 342 00:14:43,133 --> 00:14:45,834 [announcer] Christian Kepler believes he was a 50/50 partner 343 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:49,433 in ex-girlfriend Sasha Walters' vintage clothing business. 344 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,567 Sasha insists Christian was never a partner 345 00:14:51,633 --> 00:14:56,000 and his jealous, controlling behavior ended their relationship. 346 00:14:56,066 --> 00:14:58,367 Ma'am, in March of 2023, 347 00:14:58,433 --> 00:15:02,633 plaintiff claims that you offered him $10,000 if he would forfeit his stake 348 00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:04,633 in the business and vacate the lease. 349 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:06,867 Do you admit that or deny that? 350 00:15:06,934 --> 00:15:10,166 I deny that I offered him any stake in the business. 351 00:15:10,233 --> 00:15:11,633 [Judge Levy] Okay. That's perfect. 352 00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:12,900 These are your texts. 353 00:15:12,967 --> 00:15:15,133 "So now 10,000 is not enough?" 354 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,500 Plaintiff, "I won't go past 15. 355 00:15:17,567 --> 00:15:20,166 I'll be working on the spreadsheet later today." 356 00:15:20,233 --> 00:15:22,500 Your response, "Sorry, that's not the offer." 357 00:15:22,567 --> 00:15:25,166 - That's 15, 15,000, right? - Correct. 358 00:15:25,233 --> 00:15:28,967 [Judge Levy] You say, "We can do this the difficult way." 359 00:15:29,033 --> 00:15:31,100 Your response, "The receipts are the receipts. 360 00:15:31,166 --> 00:15:33,834 I'm being honest with you about what I spent. 361 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:35,834 I don't know what the total will be." 362 00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:38,567 "The offer is 10,000." This is you. 363 00:15:38,633 --> 00:15:40,165 "That's what I offer you." 364 00:15:40,233 --> 00:15:42,600 So what you're telling him is, "I'm gonna give you $10,000 365 00:15:42,667 --> 00:15:44,967 and you're gonna give up your right to the business." 366 00:15:45,033 --> 00:15:46,633 Isn't that what that text meant to you? 367 00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:47,767 [Christian] That's what I understood, Your Honor. 368 00:15:47,834 --> 00:15:49,233 [Judge Levy] It most certainly what it meant like to me. 369 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:51,066 Are you saying that I misunderstood that? 370 00:15:51,133 --> 00:15:52,233 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] Good. 371 00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:53,633 Your response, ma'am, 372 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:59,367 "If this doesn't happen before my mom leaves at the end of March, 373 00:15:59,433 --> 00:16:02,500 then there isn't any money. 374 00:16:02,567 --> 00:16:06,166 And I will, in fact, file a restraining order 375 00:16:06,233 --> 00:16:11,367 that will automatically have you removed from the lease." 376 00:16:11,433 --> 00:16:12,433 That's what you said. 377 00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:13,633 - Correct. - [laughs] 378 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:17,233 Because I wanted him to stop showing up at the business with our toddler 379 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:20,033 in the middle of the night not only once, but twice. 380 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:21,166 - [Judge Levy] Yeah, yeah, yeah. - With our toddler... 381 00:16:21,233 --> 00:16:22,233 - [Judge Levy] Okay, stop. - ... in his hand, crying. 382 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:23,600 [Judge Levy] Okay. We're gonna go back to you, sir. 383 00:16:23,667 --> 00:16:25,433 After she threatens you with filing 384 00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:28,367 a restraining order that would automatically get you removed 385 00:16:28,433 --> 00:16:30,900 from the lease, you said, "You just admitted 386 00:16:30,967 --> 00:16:33,300 that you're gonna use a restraining order illegally." 387 00:16:33,367 --> 00:16:34,834 - Yes, I said that. - [Judge Levy] Her response, 388 00:16:34,900 --> 00:16:39,233 "I could file a restraining order if you are harassing me 389 00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,233 and I feel harassed." 390 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:43,300 - I did. - [Judge Levy] The reason... 391 00:16:43,367 --> 00:16:44,433 - I felt very harassed. - [Judge Levy] ... you're feeling harassed 392 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:46,500 is because he won't take your $10,000 offer 393 00:16:46,567 --> 00:16:50,700 without first going through the spreadsheet and showing you the receipts 394 00:16:50,767 --> 00:16:51,934 because it may be more. 395 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,100 That's why you're feeling harassed, at least in those text messages. 396 00:16:54,165 --> 00:16:55,567 He harassed me about everything. 397 00:16:55,633 --> 00:16:57,734 Who--where I was going, he knew where I was going... 398 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:58,800 - [Judge Levy] Ma'am, I don't... - ... every day of the week. 399 00:16:58,867 --> 00:17:00,200 [Judge Levy] ... I'm not interested in what you say. 400 00:17:00,266 --> 00:17:02,900 All I wanna know is what you were texting him. 401 00:17:02,967 --> 00:17:06,900 So your mom offers $10,000, in essence, to reimburse him 402 00:17:06,967 --> 00:17:09,567 for his contribution to the business. 403 00:17:09,633 --> 00:17:11,233 - [Sasha] No, just to leave me alone... - [Judge Levy laughs] 404 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:12,633 ... because that's what he's asking for. 405 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:13,733 [Judge Levy] I get it. 406 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,599 This is you. "You're lowballing me 407 00:17:15,666 --> 00:17:18,165 and I'm gonna see what the actual total amount is. 408 00:17:18,233 --> 00:17:20,967 You respond, "You came up with that number ten," 409 00:17:21,032 --> 00:17:22,867 because you did at one point say 10,000... 410 00:17:22,934 --> 00:17:24,300 - Yes. - ... which at least makes you whole. 411 00:17:24,367 --> 00:17:25,567 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] You were prepared 412 00:17:25,633 --> 00:17:28,967 to give up your 50% future earnings... 413 00:17:29,033 --> 00:17:31,233 - Correct. - ... of this joint partnership. 414 00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,133 But she had to make you whole for what you spent. 415 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,033 And she says there's no way you spent 15,000 on Late Bloomer. 416 00:17:40,100 --> 00:17:42,100 You didn't say here there's no way you spent 417 00:17:42,166 --> 00:17:45,233 15,000 on whatever cockamamie business you had. 418 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:47,767 - [Christian] Right. - [Judge Levy] You specifically referred 419 00:17:47,834 --> 00:17:49,767 to Late Bloomer. 420 00:17:49,834 --> 00:17:52,700 This is you. "We made a 50/50 deal." 421 00:17:52,767 --> 00:17:55,300 You know what you never said in any text? 422 00:17:55,367 --> 00:17:58,467 Is, "Whoa, what are you talking about, 50/50 deal?" 423 00:17:58,533 --> 00:18:00,433 Nothing. Crickets. 424 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:02,834 What did you think that that 50/50 meant? 425 00:18:03,767 --> 00:18:07,800 Uh, he'd been talking about it for a while so we'd had conversations in person, 426 00:18:07,867 --> 00:18:09,967 and this is just what you're seeing through text. 427 00:18:10,033 --> 00:18:11,200 [Judge Levy] All right. You know what? 428 00:18:11,266 --> 00:18:12,300 I'm gonna pass this back over. 429 00:18:12,367 --> 00:18:15,033 I'm sure my colleagues have a bunch of questions now to follow-up with. 430 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:18,967 Sir, I wouldn't get too smug in the assumptions that you think 431 00:18:19,033 --> 00:18:21,300 the court's making about the defendant. 432 00:18:21,367 --> 00:18:24,633 You know, there's plenty in this voluminous record to point the finger 433 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:28,033 at both of you for instead of, like, making good business decisions, 434 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:29,700 you both made a lot of drama. 435 00:18:29,767 --> 00:18:31,300 - Yeah. - [Judge Acker] In fact, I'd like to see 436 00:18:31,367 --> 00:18:33,967 the video, uh, plaintiff's exhibit 18. 437 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,767 - Let's look at this video. - [Sasha] Okay. 438 00:18:36,834 --> 00:18:40,767 I am afraid of you. My heart's racing but I'm done not standing up to you. 439 00:18:40,834 --> 00:18:42,200 I see you filming me right now. 440 00:18:42,266 --> 00:18:43,133 [Christian] Okay. 441 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,033 - [Sasha] You need to stop harassing me. - [Christian] I'm not harassing you. 442 00:18:45,834 --> 00:18:48,667 [Sasha] You need to stop making my life more difficult. 443 00:18:48,734 --> 00:18:49,767 - I'm not making your life more... - [Sasha] You are. 444 00:18:49,834 --> 00:18:51,700 - [Christian] I make your life very easy. - [Sasha] You don't need 445 00:18:51,767 --> 00:18:52,834 to continue to try to do business with me. 446 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:53,900 [Christian] And I--and I take... 447 00:18:53,967 --> 00:18:57,100 [Sasha] You can allow me to pay you money when I have it, 448 00:18:57,166 --> 00:19:01,767 when you've left me alone for long enough to be happy and successful in my life. 449 00:19:01,834 --> 00:19:04,033 - [Christian] You have been successful. - [Sasha] You continue to stifle me. 450 00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,767 Every time I come around you, I'm shaking because you don't understand 451 00:19:08,834 --> 00:19:10,266 how much space I need from you. 452 00:19:10,333 --> 00:19:11,433 [Christian] Uh-hmm. 453 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:12,967 [Sasha] I don't want to do business with you. 454 00:19:13,033 --> 00:19:17,500 If I could pay you however much money would make you happy to stop trying 455 00:19:17,567 --> 00:19:20,000 to stick inventory and vending machines 456 00:19:20,066 --> 00:19:24,500 and insert yourself into my life in ways that don't feel comfortable... 457 00:19:24,567 --> 00:19:25,700 [Christian] Don't make deals you can't keep. 458 00:19:25,767 --> 00:19:27,266 [boy] What is--what is over there? 459 00:19:27,333 --> 00:19:29,667 [Sasha] I will deal with it--with you in court. 460 00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:31,900 That is appalling. 461 00:19:31,967 --> 00:19:34,900 [Sasha] He was allowed to film me when we're doing pickups so he... 462 00:19:34,967 --> 00:19:37,767 [Judge Acker] He is allowed to film you, and I heard what you said. 463 00:19:37,834 --> 00:19:41,300 - "If I could pay you, I would pay you." - [Sasha] Correct. 464 00:19:41,367 --> 00:19:44,633 So I think that you did have some expectation of paying him something. 465 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:48,967 He wasn't just your child's father who was simply subsidizing you. 466 00:19:49,033 --> 00:19:50,900 He did have some expectations. 467 00:19:50,967 --> 00:19:54,233 However, sir, I heard you say to either one of my colleagues... 468 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:55,700 - [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... "But I loved her." 469 00:19:56,767 --> 00:19:59,233 [announcer] Next time on Tribunal Justice. 470 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:03,900 This woman wanted to get you out of her life as fast as she could. 471 00:20:03,967 --> 00:20:05,200 Trying to make my life hell. 472 00:20:05,266 --> 00:20:07,100 Time out, time out, time out. 473 00:20:07,166 --> 00:20:08,934 Is that you giving the middle finger? 474 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,433 Yes, because he wouldn't leave me alone. 475 00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:15,233 You're giving the middle finger to the man that you are so afraid of. 476 00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:18,033 Right there. That's how afraid you were. 477 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,100 [dramatic music plays] 478 00:20:20,166 --> 00:20:22,500 [announcer] Did someone break an agreement? 479 00:20:22,567 --> 00:20:25,900 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 480 00:20:25,967 --> 00:20:28,600 Find us on social media. 481 00:20:28,667 --> 00:20:31,734 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]