I was getting constant text messages, phone calls.
I really just wanted him to stop.
I am afraid of you. My heart's racing.
You need to stop harassing me.
That is appalling.
I loved her, and I did what she asked because I cared about her.
Oh, my God.
Sorry, I'm a little thrown off here. I...
Yeah, you're a little thrown off. I know why,
because you're not in control in here.
[announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice.
["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]
[announcer] Today's case was filed in Chico, California.
This is case number 2025
on the count of the matter of Kepler versus Walters.
- [Judge Acker] Thank you, Byrd. - [Byrd] Uh-hmm.
You may be seated.
[Judge Acker] Mr. Kepler, you and the defendant, you have a child together,
and you are now bringing a claim against her for $9,999.99,
which is the amount that you say she agreed to pay you to buy out
your stake in the vintage clothing store that you maintain you own together.
You describe it as a 50% partnership held by each of you.
Ms. Walters, you say that this was your business.
Anything he did was simply because he was trying to help you out.
- You deny owing him anything. - [Sasha] Correct.
[Judge Acker] I'm also going to point out that there's a restraining order
filed by you, ma'am, but it hasn't yet been issued from the court
because they're finalizing the order.
I'm putting that out there
at the top because I know that matters between you are quite contentious.
And there's no written agreement in this case,
- correct? - [Sasha] Correct.
[Judge Acker] So let's start at the beginning and talk about this shop.
There's a brick-and-mortar store called Late Bloomer, correct?
- [Sasha] Correct. - Yes. That's the brand associated
with the lease that I'm a lessor.
[Judge Acker] Can we put a picture of the store up?
- There's a brick-and-mortar store. - [Christian] Uh-hmm.
[Judge Acker] There's also a parking lot, correct?
[Christian] Correct.
[Judge Acker] Now, the brick-and-mortar store, what happens there?
- How does it operate? - Yes. Yes.
People bring in clothing for consignment.
Also, I spend a lot of time going to thrift stores, buying inventory,
building the shop out,
painting walls, procuring insurance.
Sasha and I, we were living together at the time
and she said, "Let's become 50% partners in this business."
[Judge Acker] Did she say those words, "Let's become 50%?"
[Christian] Yes, she did.
[Judge Acker] Is that right, ma'am?
We went into this lease as not business owners together.
There was the vintage shop and the parking lot across the street
was gonna be used for markets with vendors.
And that was going to be his stream of revenue.
I was very clear with him that the resale shop was mine,
because there were a lot of control issues in our romantic relationship
that made me hesitant to go forward with this lease with him.
But I set my good judgment aside
- and I went ahead with it and I... - [Judge Acker] Oh, okay. I got it.
Because, Mr. Kepler, at the root of your complaint...
- [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... is the fact that she wasn't letting
you have a certain degree of control in the store.
Your Honor, there's no reason for me to rent a public space
if I'm gonna be doing a pop-up market across the street
in someone else's parking lot.
And so the whole reason for getting this lease
is for us to both be able to have our marketplaces inside the shop.
So, Mr. Kepler, let's go back to your contention
- that you were 50% partners, because... - Yes.
... as I understand it, in October, there was an incident
where you claimed that she sold some of your merchandise
and owed you $22
- and it caused a big ruckus. - Your Honor, we're jumping ahead--
we're jumping ahead past the original issue.
- And I have a witness for that... - [Christian] That's [indistinct].
[Judge Acker] I am finding it remarkable
that I am charged with being one of the three people to determine your case,
and you seem to find the questions I'm asking you entirely irrelevant.
- I apologize. I just feel like... - [Judge Acker] Ma'am, can you tell me
what happened in October when he had to come to the shop and get $22?
[Sasha] So, I was at work during shop hours when we were open,
but he was calling me and asking for the money for that sale.
So, I was just telling him, "I'm at work,
I'm in the middle of dealing with customers,
and I'm not gonna pay you the $22 right now, like you're asking me to."
And I hung up the phone.
Then he ends up showing up at the shop,
I believe it's like 8:00 or 9:00 at night, and barges in.
- Our son is in the car outside, crying... - [Judge Acker] How old is your son?
He was two at the time.
I can hear him crying in the car outside.
And he barges into the shop
and he's like, "Why can't you just pay me the money?"
My friend, Katherine, was there with me.
I have her as a witness.
- May we hear from your witness? - [Sasha] Yes.
[Judge Acker] Ma'am, could you please state your name for the record?
Katherine Szyndler.
You've been called by the defendant as a witness in this case,
and specifically I understand that you have information
about an incident in October of last year.
What did you witness on that occasion?
[Katherine] Yes. I was at the store.
I was down for a visit, and he calls,
and I can see she's getting upset, and they get off the phone.
I said, "What's happening?" She's like, "He wants $22."
And I was like, "Well, I don't know what you're gonna do."
So I would say not even ten minutes later,
he shows up yelling in the store,
- "I want my $22." - [Christian] That is not what happened.
And at that time,
me, I'm a--I'm a person of logic, and I said,
"Okay. I'm just gonna grab money out of my purse and get him out of here."
And I said, "Here's your $22 and you can keep the rest."
I don't have anything further for you.
Thank you, ma'am.
Can we put up exhibit number one, please, the text exchange?
I want to point out, "Let me do the math and I'll get it back to you."
"Nope, offer is off the table now and we can go to court."
Now, as I understand,
this was meant to prove your position
that she'd agreed to pay you this money
in order to get you off of the lease, correct?
- Uh-hmm. Correct. - [Judge Acker] So, Ms. Walters,
what was that $10,000 for?
To stop harassing me.
I was getting constant text messages, phone calls.
He would show up at the shop and cause a scene.
Um, I really just wanted him to stop.
- [Judge Acker] Right off the bat, sir... - Yeah.
... this is not evidence of an agreement...
- [Christian] Yeah. - ... to get you out of the business.
This is evidence of an agreement to try to settle a dispute.
So, as I see it, you've got quite a ways to go.
I'm gonna pass the case now to Judge DiMango.
You're not really here, sir, for determination of your partnership
or the value of it.
That's not why you're really here...
- I'm... - [Judge DiMango] ... because I think
you know there was no partnership.
[Christian] I'm here for our son and, yes, I was--I was a partner.
- I am a partner. - [Judge DiMango] Now...
She agreed--she agreed with me.
Whether it's in writing or not, she made an agreement with me.
[Judge DiMango] Yeah, I understand that that's your position,
but there's nothing in these papers
which indicate anything about partnership at all.
- Everything you submitted to us... - Uh-hmm.
... had to do with what a horrible person she was
and how wonderful you are.
- I don't recall that. - [Judge DiMango] You don't?
- No. - I'm--maybe you have
too many papers to read.
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
I loved her and I did what she asked because I cared.
- Oh, my God. - [Christian] I...
Please don't put me in that place.
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Christian Kepler is suing ex-girlfriend Sasha Walters
for almost $10,000.
Christian claims he wants compensation
for being cut out of the business they co-founded.
Sasha maintains they were never business partners.
Her ex is always trying to control her and she wants nothing to do with him.
When I looked through the papers when I first read it,
everything I read indicated to me
that you had no intention of making him a partner.
So we really have to glean whether or not there was a meeting of the minds
from the things that occurred.
When you were selling things, that money wasn't going back into the business.
That was going to you because you were not part of the business and the profits.
You don't have a public section in the store, do you?
- They wrote newspaper articles. - I was denied it...
[Judge DiMango] They didn't put your name in it.
- Right. - Because it's all in your head.
It's not what the reality was.
- That's our agreement that we made and... - [Judge DiMango] No...
- ... I can't prove it. I cannot prove it. - [Judge DiMango] There you go.
- I cannot prove it. - You can't prove it.
- So... - No. I can only prove that I have a lease
on a business where I'm not allowed to do public business.
Who actually was choosing what to put out on the floor and to display?
[Christian] I bought many things and put them out and she would...
- Was that you, ma'am? - [Sasha] That was me.
- [Christian] I was just vetoed. - There were a few items
- that I didn't feel were appropriate. - [Judge DiMango] You were vetoed.
- [Christian] Right. - The point, you had no authority
because you were not a partner in the business.
I loved her and I did what she asked because I cared...
- Oh, my God. - [Christian] I...
Please don't put me in that place because love...
- [Christian] I did... - [Judge DiMango] ... is not displayed
in this relationship because orders of protection, being followed,
being stalked, involving your child is just the behavior of a narcissistic,
egomaniac, self-righteous sociopath.
And that's just a brief description of the things
- that I read in what you submitted. - Interesting.
It's really not interesting.
- It's really criminal. - [Christian] I disagree.
I went into this trusting that we were partners.
I gave her full control, trusting that on the back end,
she would honor her commitment to me, and that did not happen.
Ma'am, it wasn't clear to me whether or not the items were being allowed
because you felt he was a partner there
or because you really had no choice because he's so controlling.
- So, please... - I just [indistinct].
[Judge DiMango] ... why did you put his property out?
It was a little of both.
I felt like if I didn't, there would be a problem,
but certain things I wouldn't allow.
[Judge DiMango] Within that store, how much of the property
that you were selling were his?
I'd say 20%, not very much.
And what would you calculate your percentage of things in her store?
What would it be?
Um, I would say 20% is probably accurate and...
[Judge DiMango] So you were a 50% owner who contributed 20%,
and the balance of this was hers?
Is that your position here? No.
[Christian] My position is that I could've been the one
to receive the donations and the items.
- And I allowed her the... - [Judge DiMango] Oh. That...
- [Christian] ... allowed her to do that. - You know what?
That's the whole thing about you. You're always giving her permission.
- You give her permission to go out. - [Christian] I didn't--
I didn't insist that I should have it, too.
[Judge DiMango] You give her permission...
I could say I should get some of those things.
- I could get some of those things. - Well, you are 50% owner.
Why wouldn't you both be doing it? Because you weren't 50% owner.
- [Christian] Because I allowed her to... - Where?
- ... take full control. - Show me where.
There is no control that you would allow her to have over anything in her life.
That's not the case. I was giving-- I was building, investing, giving.
- You--where? Where? - [Christian] And I--and I did not...
- Look. All of this stuff here. - [Christian] ... ask for further control.
- I allowed her to have... - All of this. You know what?
Nothing in here about you building, nothing in here about your percentage,
nothing in here about your partnership agreement.
Everything--she had a boyfriend come over.
She slept with somebody. She didn't do this.
She was driving around in circles.
- I was following her. It's midnight... - [Christian] I did not--I did not...
[Judge DiMango] ... I left my son in the car.
Yes. Everything here is about that.
And the problem you have is that for once in her life...
- [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... she did not relinquish control
to you over something because it was important to her.
[chuckles] Sorry, I'm a little thrown off here. I...
[Judge DiMango] Yeah, you're a little thrown off, I know why.
- Because you're not control in here. - I'm getting a lot and I gave everything
- I had, okay? - [Judge DiMango] Judge Levy?
Things don't look good for you right now.
No. This is--this is embarrassing.
It's a misrepresentation of my understanding of the situation.
- [Judge Levy] Listen, Mr. Kepler. - [Christian] Yeah.
[Judge Levy] Don't give up yet, my man.
Don't give up yet.
And, man, I've seen just the opposite.
I've seen orders of protection used as swords and not shields.
- [Christian] Uh-hmm. - [Judge Levy] I've seen women go into
family court and criminal court
and just abuse the hell out of the system, manipulate.
- You didn't do that here, did you? - I did not, Your Honor.
- [Judge Levy] No. Of course not. - [Christian] Your Honor...
[Judge Levy] You don't have to raise your hand.
Because, Ms. Walters, you cannot have been any more clear.
There wasn't even a partnership.
Not with Late Bloomer.
So then explain to me this invoice dated September 7th to the 10th of 2022.
So that's right when the business starts.
- Correct. - [Judge Levy] Correct?
- Correct. - [Judge Levy] Christian Nicholas Kepler.
- Business name... - [Sasha] It's a...
... Late Bloomer Vintage Boutique hosting at 6th Street Vintage Market on Saturday.
He took it upon himself to take out those ads, I had nothing to do with the ads.
- He insisted... - [Judge Levy] You heard the--ma'am,
you heard the ads.
When you heard them, you didn't tell him, "Hey, stop doing that,
you don't own the business."
You didn't say that, did you?
- I did not. - [Judge Levy] No.
Did you get insurance for your business?
- He acquired the insurance. - [Judge Levy] He did?
That's something that a partner would be expected to do.
What else do partners do? Psst.
- Sign leases. - [Christian] They sign leases.
- That's correct. - [Judge Levy] Sign leases.
- And they pay half the rent. Yeah. - [Judge Levy] Sign leases.
And did he pay the rent?
He put down to the down payment, which was...
[Judge Levy] Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
What was it, like a $500 deposit, an $800 deposit?
No, it was for six months upfront for the...
- [Christian] For thousands. - [Judge Levy] It was $6,000.
- [Sasha] Correct. - [Judge Levy] He put it up.
What, as just an employee employees put up deposits now?
No, he offered as my romantic partner.
[Judge Levy] Of course, as your romantic partner. I got that.
What else do partners do?
Do partners negotiate leases?
- [Christian] Yeah. Yes, they do. - Yes, they do.
- [Christian] Yes. - It's the email that I saw
with the landlord...
- [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... was from you...
- [Christian] Yeah. - ... negotiating his requested $8,500
- down to what? - $6,000.
[Judge Levy] $6,000. He sent that email.
- Correct. - [Judge Levy] And in addition,
what did you put in that email? Do you remember?
What else were you gonna do to the business, to your business?
- To renovate it. - [Judge Levy] Renovate it.
- Yeah. - You know who renovates space?
- Owners. - I'd like to point out the paint
on my pants, you know. They're the paint...
I don't need to see the paint on your pants.
- [Sasha] He insisted... - [Judge Levy] Okay.
[Sasha] "... I'm gonna paint this wall."
[Judge Levy] Okay. He insisted.
And he provided you with a detailed spreadsheet and showing you the receipts,
and that spreadsheet, by the way, showed over $16,000.
[Christian] That's accurate, Your Honor.
- I don't believe so. - [Judge Levy] Really?
[Sasha] There's no receipts that are connected to those purchases.
- Those are just in his head... - [Christian] There are many...
- ... like the rest of the story. - [Judge Levy] Oh, hold on.
There were no receipts? Put them down.
By the way, ma'am, in March of 2023,
plaintiff claims that you offered him $10,000
if he would forfeit his stake in the business and vacate the lease.
Do you admit that or deny that?
[announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
[Sasha] Every time I come around you, I'm shaking because you don't understand
how much space I need from you.
That is appalling.
However, sir, I heard you say,
"But I loved her."
[dramatic musical sting]
[theme music plays]
[announcer] Christian Kepler believes he was a 50/50 partner
in ex-girlfriend Sasha Walters' vintage clothing business.
Sasha insists Christian was never a partner
and his jealous, controlling behavior ended their relationship.
Ma'am, in March of 2023,
plaintiff claims that you offered him $10,000 if he would forfeit his stake
in the business and vacate the lease.
Do you admit that or deny that?
I deny that I offered him any stake in the business.
[Judge Levy] Okay. That's perfect.
These are your texts.
"So now 10,000 is not enough?"
Plaintiff, "I won't go past 15.
I'll be working on the spreadsheet later today."
Your response, "Sorry, that's not the offer."
- That's 15, 15,000, right? - Correct.
[Judge Levy] You say, "We can do this the difficult way."
Your response, "The receipts are the receipts.
I'm being honest with you about what I spent.
I don't know what the total will be."
"The offer is 10,000." This is you.
"That's what I offer you."
So what you're telling him is, "I'm gonna give you $10,000
and you're gonna give up your right to the business."
Isn't that what that text meant to you?
[Christian] That's what I understood, Your Honor.
[Judge Levy] It most certainly what it meant like to me.
Are you saying that I misunderstood that?
- Yes. - [Judge Levy] Good.
Your response, ma'am,
"If this doesn't happen before my mom leaves at the end of March,
then there isn't any money.
And I will, in fact, file a restraining order
that will automatically have you removed from the lease."
That's what you said.
- Correct. - [laughs]
Because I wanted him to stop showing up at the business with our toddler
in the middle of the night not only once, but twice.
- [Judge Levy] Yeah, yeah, yeah. - With our toddler...
- [Judge Levy] Okay, stop. - ... in his hand, crying.
[Judge Levy] Okay. We're gonna go back to you, sir.
After she threatens you with filing
a restraining order that would automatically get you removed
from the lease, you said, "You just admitted
that you're gonna use a restraining order illegally."
- Yes, I said that. - [Judge Levy] Her response,
"I could file a restraining order if you are harassing me
and I feel harassed."
- I did. - [Judge Levy] The reason...
- I felt very harassed. - [Judge Levy] ... you're feeling harassed
is because he won't take your $10,000 offer
without first going through the spreadsheet and showing you the receipts
because it may be more.
That's why you're feeling harassed, at least in those text messages.
He harassed me about everything.
Who--where I was going, he knew where I was going...
- [Judge Levy] Ma'am, I don't... - ... every day of the week.
[Judge Levy] ... I'm not interested in what you say.
All I wanna know is what you were texting him.
So your mom offers $10,000, in essence, to reimburse him
for his contribution to the business.
- [Sasha] No, just to leave me alone... - [Judge Levy laughs]
... because that's what he's asking for.
[Judge Levy] I get it.
This is you. "You're lowballing me
and I'm gonna see what the actual total amount is.
You respond, "You came up with that number ten,"
because you did at one point say 10,000...
- Yes. - ... which at least makes you whole.
- Yes. - [Judge Levy] You were prepared
to give up your 50% future earnings...
- Correct. - ... of this joint partnership.
But she had to make you whole for what you spent.
And she says there's no way you spent 15,000 on Late Bloomer.
You didn't say here there's no way you spent
15,000 on whatever cockamamie business you had.
- [Christian] Right. - [Judge Levy] You specifically referred
to Late Bloomer.
This is you. "We made a 50/50 deal."
You know what you never said in any text?
Is, "Whoa, what are you talking about, 50/50 deal?"
Nothing. Crickets.
What did you think that that 50/50 meant?
Uh, he'd been talking about it for a while so we'd had conversations in person,
and this is just what you're seeing through text.
[Judge Levy] All right. You know what?
I'm gonna pass this back over.
I'm sure my colleagues have a bunch of questions now to follow-up with.
Sir, I wouldn't get too smug in the assumptions that you think
the court's making about the defendant.
You know, there's plenty in this voluminous record to point the finger
at both of you for instead of, like, making good business decisions,
you both made a lot of drama.
- Yeah. - [Judge Acker] In fact, I'd like to see
the video, uh, plaintiff's exhibit 18.
- Let's look at this video. - [Sasha] Okay.
I am afraid of you. My heart's racing but I'm done not standing up to you.
I see you filming me right now.
[Christian] Okay.
- [Sasha] You need to stop harassing me. - [Christian] I'm not harassing you.
[Sasha] You need to stop making my life more difficult.
- I'm not making your life more... - [Sasha] You are.
- [Christian] I make your life very easy. - [Sasha] You don't need
to continue to try to do business with me.
[Christian] And I--and I take...
[Sasha] You can allow me to pay you money when I have it,
when you've left me alone for long enough to be happy and successful in my life.
- [Christian] You have been successful. - [Sasha] You continue to stifle me.
Every time I come around you, I'm shaking because you don't understand
how much space I need from you.
[Christian] Uh-hmm.
[Sasha] I don't want to do business with you.
If I could pay you however much money would make you happy to stop trying
to stick inventory and vending machines
and insert yourself into my life in ways that don't feel comfortable...
[Christian] Don't make deals you can't keep.
[boy] What is--what is over there?
[Sasha] I will deal with it--with you in court.
That is appalling.
[Sasha] He was allowed to film me when we're doing pickups so he...
[Judge Acker] He is allowed to film you, and I heard what you said.
- "If I could pay you, I would pay you." - [Sasha] Correct.
So I think that you did have some expectation of paying him something.
He wasn't just your child's father who was simply subsidizing you.
He did have some expectations.
However, sir, I heard you say to either one of my colleagues...
- [Christian] Uh-hmm. - ... "But I loved her."
[announcer] Next time on Tribunal Justice.
This woman wanted to get you out of her life as fast as she could.
Trying to make my life hell.
Time out, time out, time out.
Is that you giving the middle finger?
Yes, because he wouldn't leave me alone.
You're giving the middle finger to the man that you are so afraid of.
Right there. That's how afraid you were.
[dramatic music plays]
[announcer] Did someone break an agreement?
Let Tribunal Justice decide your case.
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["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]