1 00:00:06,133 --> 00:00:08,900 [Judge Acker] Do you recall the text messages that you sent the defendant? 2 00:00:08,967 --> 00:00:10,100 I'm gonna read them. 3 00:00:10,166 --> 00:00:11,100 Go ahead. 4 00:00:11,166 --> 00:00:12,800 "Renting from you is the equivalent 5 00:00:12,867 --> 00:00:15,333 of living under a third-world tyrant. 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,100 Keep […] with me and you're going to find out what it is." 7 00:00:19,166 --> 00:00:22,867 I'm a […] man here fighting for his kids' money, 8 00:00:22,934 --> 00:00:24,567 food from their mouths. 9 00:00:24,633 --> 00:00:26,300 You better calm yourself down. 10 00:00:26,367 --> 00:00:28,100 You need to stop it now. 11 00:00:28,166 --> 00:00:30,433 [announcer] Now, on Tribunal Justice. 12 00:00:30,500 --> 00:00:34,033 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 13 00:00:51,567 --> 00:00:55,500 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Long Beach, California. 14 00:00:55,567 --> 00:00:57,734 [Cassandra] Your Honor, this is case 209A 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,834 and B in the matter of Cardenas versus Steuber. 16 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:02,767 All parties have been sworn in. 17 00:01:02,834 --> 00:01:03,834 [Judge Levy] Thank you, Cassandra. 18 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:04,900 [Cassandra] You may be seated. 19 00:01:04,967 --> 00:01:06,000 [Judge Levy] Okay. 20 00:01:06,066 --> 00:01:10,066 Mr. Cardenas, on July 13th, 2021, 21 00:01:10,133 --> 00:01:12,433 you, your wife, and your three children 22 00:01:12,500 --> 00:01:14,867 moved into the defendant's duplex 23 00:01:14,934 --> 00:01:18,734 and paid $6,390 for security deposit. 24 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,400 - Is that correct? - Yes. That is correct. 25 00:01:20,467 --> 00:01:22,834 [Judge Levy] After two years, you and your family 26 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:24,800 moved out and the defendant, 27 00:01:24,867 --> 00:01:29,066 according to your complaint, only returned $5,101. 28 00:01:29,133 --> 00:01:32,265 You say that the deductions that the defendant made 29 00:01:32,333 --> 00:01:34,900 were excessive and you're suing now 30 00:01:34,967 --> 00:01:38,934 for the return of $1,289. 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,467 Yes. That is correct. 32 00:01:40,533 --> 00:01:43,233 Now, if I understand, Ms. Steuber, your answer, 33 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:46,467 you say that you don't owe the plaintiff anything 34 00:01:46,533 --> 00:01:48,500 since the repairs were more than 35 00:01:48,567 --> 00:01:51,333 the normal wear and tear on the apartment. 36 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:52,467 That is correct. 37 00:01:52,533 --> 00:01:56,265 [Judge Levy] You say that the plaintiff started intimidating you 38 00:01:56,333 --> 00:01:58,900 before the 21 days that you had 39 00:01:58,967 --> 00:02:01,667 to send the deposit back to him and his wife. 40 00:02:01,734 --> 00:02:04,967 And you're countersuing for $2,500. 41 00:02:05,033 --> 00:02:05,900 That is correct. 42 00:02:05,967 --> 00:02:08,900 [Judge Levy] And the countersuit breakdown, $1,500 43 00:02:08,967 --> 00:02:13,100 because you had to go to court five times at $300 a day. 44 00:02:13,166 --> 00:02:14,100 Yes, Your Honor. 45 00:02:14,166 --> 00:02:17,800 Also, for other items beyond normal wear and tear. 46 00:02:17,867 --> 00:02:20,400 That's gonna be very important. That's your counterclaim. 47 00:02:20,466 --> 00:02:23,500 It gets a little more complicated, 'cause that was the A case. 48 00:02:23,567 --> 00:02:24,800 Now we have the B case. 49 00:02:24,867 --> 00:02:26,633 The B case, Mr. Cardenas, 50 00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:29,533 you're suing again for $3,060… 51 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:30,600 That is correct. 52 00:02:30,667 --> 00:02:34,200 [Judge Levy] … that you were overcharged for rent increases, 53 00:02:34,266 --> 00:02:37,266 255 a month for 12 months, 54 00:02:37,333 --> 00:02:41,500 due to her improper rent increase notification. 55 00:02:41,567 --> 00:02:44,400 That is correct. I was due to a 30-day notification-- 56 00:02:44,466 --> 00:02:49,466 proper notification of rent increase which she did not provide. 57 00:02:49,533 --> 00:02:50,600 [Judge Levy] That's what you say, right? 58 00:02:50,667 --> 00:02:51,500 [Juan] That's what… 59 00:02:51,567 --> 00:02:54,133 And that's under California Civil Code Section 827. 60 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:55,266 - [Juan] Yes, sir. - [Judge Levy] Good. 61 00:02:55,333 --> 00:02:56,767 Ms. Steuber, you deny that. 62 00:02:56,834 --> 00:02:58,500 You said you complied with that statute. 63 00:02:58,567 --> 00:02:59,800 That's correct, Your Honor. 64 00:02:59,867 --> 00:03:02,266 Okay. Who is this gentleman right here? 65 00:03:02,333 --> 00:03:06,400 This is my handyman who does the work before and after 66 00:03:06,467 --> 00:03:09,166 and during the tenancy of a lot of my units, and… 67 00:03:09,233 --> 00:03:10,300 - Mr. Serrano? - Yes, sir. 68 00:03:10,367 --> 00:03:11,533 - … he was the one directly… - Okay. Step up. 69 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:13,266 - … who painted it prior to, 70 00:03:13,333 --> 00:03:16,266 got it ready for them, and then he's the one 71 00:03:16,333 --> 00:03:18,133 - who did most of the repairs after. - Okay. 72 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,166 Is that correct? 73 00:03:19,233 --> 00:03:21,100 - You work for the defendant? - Yes, sir. 74 00:03:21,166 --> 00:03:22,667 [Judge Levy] How long have you worked for her? 75 00:03:22,734 --> 00:03:24,600 Been working for her for like four years. 76 00:03:24,667 --> 00:03:25,767 - [Judge Levy] Four years? - Yes. 77 00:03:25,834 --> 00:03:28,100 There came a time where you went inside the house, correct? 78 00:03:28,166 --> 00:03:30,133 - [Ricardo] Uh-hmm. - When was that? 79 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,400 I think it was when I did some repairs 80 00:03:32,466 --> 00:03:35,266 and then I installed some of the air conditioners, 81 00:03:35,333 --> 00:03:36,600 plumbing issues. 82 00:03:36,667 --> 00:03:39,200 The water--the water it was backing up. 83 00:03:39,266 --> 00:03:41,100 [Judge Levy] Water backing up where? 84 00:03:41,166 --> 00:03:45,166 There was one time on the bathtub and then the other one on the sink. 85 00:03:45,233 --> 00:03:47,900 Did you ever see anything while you were inside the house 86 00:03:47,966 --> 00:03:50,133 to suggest that the plaintiff here 87 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,533 and his wife and kids were not treating it well? 88 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:53,867 - No, sir. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 89 00:03:53,934 --> 00:03:55,567 Before coming in today, 90 00:03:55,633 --> 00:03:59,500 - you prepared a statement, did you not? - Yes. Yes. 91 00:03:59,567 --> 00:04:00,967 [Judge Levy] By the way, Ms. Steuber, 92 00:04:01,033 --> 00:04:03,200 did you see his statement before you came in today? 93 00:04:03,266 --> 00:04:04,934 - No, I have not. - [Judge Levy] Right on. 94 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,100 "The unit was prepared by me before they moved in. 95 00:04:09,166 --> 00:04:12,967 Once they moved out, I did normal repairs. 96 00:04:13,033 --> 00:04:17,466 Because of the quality of the paint Ms. Steuber uses, 97 00:04:17,533 --> 00:04:20,834 we could not just do individual touch-ups 98 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:23,266 on the stains on the wall." 99 00:04:23,332 --> 00:04:24,367 That's correct. 100 00:04:24,433 --> 00:04:27,500 "The whole unit had to be painted. 101 00:04:27,567 --> 00:04:29,734 There were a lot of stains on the walls 102 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,700 and nail holes, which is pretty normal 103 00:04:32,767 --> 00:04:36,734 for the amount of time tenants lived in the property." 104 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:37,734 Yes. 105 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,066 You say here that the reason you had to paint the entire house 106 00:04:41,133 --> 00:04:44,734 was because of the paint choice of Mrs. Steuber. 107 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,332 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] Explain that. 108 00:04:47,033 --> 00:04:49,967 Because she used expensive paint. 109 00:04:50,033 --> 00:04:52,400 If I do touch-ups, it was not gonna match. 110 00:04:52,467 --> 00:04:53,767 You would see that little spot. 111 00:04:53,834 --> 00:04:56,700 Once you go in, you won't-- you're gonna notice it. For that… 112 00:04:56,767 --> 00:05:00,533 So it's because of the type of paint that the defendant told you 113 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,467 to use that you had to now paint the entire apartment? 114 00:05:04,533 --> 00:05:06,667 - Pretty much yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 115 00:05:06,734 --> 00:05:10,900 But, Your Honor, the amount of damage that was done required the painting. 116 00:05:10,967 --> 00:05:14,433 And the fact that Mr. Cardenas was a mechanic 117 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:16,900 and there was excessive grease 118 00:05:16,967 --> 00:05:17,967 - and dirty stains… - That's a lie. 119 00:05:18,033 --> 00:05:20,000 What does that have to do with anything? 120 00:05:20,066 --> 00:05:22,100 Mr. Cardenas, look at me. Look at me. 121 00:05:22,166 --> 00:05:24,266 Does it look like this is my first day on the job? 122 00:05:24,332 --> 00:05:25,734 - No, sir. - [Judge Levy] Go on. 123 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,867 So rather than being able to clean the semi-gloss Dunn-Edwards paint 124 00:05:29,934 --> 00:05:33,166 that I use, because I do use the superior paint 125 00:05:33,233 --> 00:05:35,433 so that we don't have to repaint, 126 00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:37,633 the type of grease that was on his hands 127 00:05:37,700 --> 00:05:42,100 impregnated the white walls and the front door 128 00:05:42,166 --> 00:05:45,600 to the path that we could not get the paint off, 129 00:05:45,667 --> 00:05:46,600 - repaint after two years. - [Judge Levy] I know. 130 00:05:46,667 --> 00:05:48,200 I know how difficult it is to sit there and bite your tongue, 131 00:05:48,266 --> 00:05:50,367 but this is what we're talking about right here. 132 00:05:50,433 --> 00:05:52,332 Mr. Serrano, take a look at page one. 133 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,200 Bathroom, shower, toilet. 134 00:05:55,266 --> 00:05:56,767 That's the way it looked, right? 135 00:05:56,834 --> 00:06:00,633 - [Ricardo] Yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay. Next one. The tub. 136 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,367 That's the way it looked? 137 00:06:02,433 --> 00:06:03,567 [Ricardo] Yes. 138 00:06:03,633 --> 00:06:05,767 [Judge Levy] And if I understand you correctly, Ms. Steuber, 139 00:06:05,834 --> 00:06:08,533 from looking at your evidence that you submitted, 140 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,500 you claimed that the way that this bathtub 141 00:06:11,567 --> 00:06:14,633 was left after two years was problematic. 142 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:15,967 Is that correct? 143 00:06:16,033 --> 00:06:17,567 The seal at the back of the tub, 144 00:06:17,633 --> 00:06:20,667 that is pulled away from the wall, and there's other pictures. 145 00:06:20,734 --> 00:06:22,800 It was improper maintenance that… 146 00:06:22,867 --> 00:06:25,500 Great. Show me the way this looked before he moved in. 147 00:06:26,266 --> 00:06:27,400 I didn't take the exact picture… 148 00:06:27,467 --> 00:06:28,467 [Judge Levy] You don't have evidence of that? 149 00:06:28,533 --> 00:06:29,834 - … but I do. - [Judge Levy] Oh, show me where it is. 150 00:06:30,233 --> 00:06:33,667 Sure. It'll take me a minute to go all the way back to 2021. 151 00:06:33,734 --> 00:06:35,834 You can. I'll go over the rest of this with your handyman. 152 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:36,867 - [Michelle] And by the way… - Page 40… 153 00:06:36,933 --> 00:06:38,000 [Michelle] … also on that photo, 154 00:06:38,066 --> 00:06:39,233 - there's hard water stains. - [Judge Levy] Go ahead. 155 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:40,300 You don't need to say anything. 156 00:06:40,367 --> 00:06:41,500 - Just get me the photographs. - Okay. 157 00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:44,533 I went through all of your evidence and, quite frankly, 158 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,933 if I sound a little sharp right now, I am, 159 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,834 'cause you were nickel-and-diming. 160 00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:49,900 No, Your Honor, I was not. 161 00:06:49,967 --> 00:06:51,933 I--listen, I wanna see the way that that tub looked. 162 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:52,933 And I'm telling you right now, 163 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,133 if you don't have a picture that shows that tub 164 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,266 with a date on it in pristine condition, 165 00:06:57,332 --> 00:06:59,300 that's not gonna be good for your case. 166 00:07:00,934 --> 00:07:03,166 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 167 00:07:03,233 --> 00:07:05,400 If you think I'm just gonna sit here and let you 168 00:07:05,467 --> 00:07:08,200 be smug while you threaten violence, you are nuts 169 00:07:08,266 --> 00:07:09,667 Where's the threat? 170 00:07:09,734 --> 00:07:10,867 [dramatic musical sting] 171 00:07:12,533 --> 00:07:14,300 [theme music plays] 172 00:07:14,367 --> 00:07:17,332 [announcer] Juan Cardenas is suing landlord, Michelle Steuber, 173 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,667 for the return of his security deposit 174 00:07:19,734 --> 00:07:22,967 and for improper notification of a rent increase. 175 00:07:23,033 --> 00:07:25,467 Michelle says she was intimidated by Juan 176 00:07:25,533 --> 00:07:29,800 and is now countersuing for breach of contract, lost wages, 177 00:07:29,867 --> 00:07:32,933 and an overpayment on the security deposit. 178 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,266 - Look on page 40. - Yes. 179 00:07:35,332 --> 00:07:36,567 [Judge Levy] That's the way the kitchen looked. 180 00:07:36,633 --> 00:07:39,867 They were deducting money from something about the way that this looked? 181 00:07:40,633 --> 00:07:43,166 She's saying that the inside of the kitchen cabinets. 182 00:07:43,233 --> 00:07:45,700 She was claiming-- that's what she's charging for, 183 00:07:45,767 --> 00:07:48,367 cleaning or painting the inside of the cabinets. 184 00:07:48,433 --> 00:07:49,834 I repainted the whole cabinets. 185 00:07:49,900 --> 00:07:51,266 - [Judge Levy] Painting the cabinets. - Yeah. 186 00:07:51,332 --> 00:07:52,900 [Judge Levy] Because she said that it looks like 187 00:07:52,967 --> 00:07:55,734 "Women who have fake nails chip away the paint." 188 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,200 - That's what you said, right? - [Michelle] Yes. 189 00:07:57,266 --> 00:08:00,767 [Judge Levy] Right. So she wants you to pay because in her experience, 190 00:08:00,834 --> 00:08:02,633 it looks like, probably you, ma'am, 191 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:04,100 had fake nails and chipped it. 192 00:08:04,166 --> 00:08:06,300 - Let's look, uh, page 41. - [chuckles] 193 00:08:06,367 --> 00:08:08,700 [Judge Levy] Anything about the way that that room looked 194 00:08:08,767 --> 00:08:11,300 that suggested to you it was damaged 195 00:08:11,367 --> 00:08:13,767 above what normal wear and tear is? 196 00:08:13,834 --> 00:08:15,967 Oh, it's just a picture, hard to tell, but no. 197 00:08:16,033 --> 00:08:16,934 [Judge Levy] Nope? Good. 198 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:17,867 Let's go to the next one. 199 00:08:18,633 --> 00:08:20,332 - How are we doing on that photograph? - [Michelle] I'm looking. 200 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,667 But, Your Honor, he's taking pictures from far away 201 00:08:22,734 --> 00:08:24,967 and you can't see the small imperfections. 202 00:08:25,033 --> 00:08:26,467 You weren't there. He was there. 203 00:08:26,533 --> 00:08:27,734 - That was his job. - [Michelle] No. 204 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,133 I did the walkthrough with him 205 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,033 - and he came right after. - [Judge Levy] His job was to fix it. 206 00:08:31,100 --> 00:08:32,700 I'm not interested in what you say. 207 00:08:32,767 --> 00:08:33,834 You brought him. 208 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:36,133 - He's the objective guy, right? - [Michelle] But if you would-- 209 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:37,100 - I'm not telling… - He was there. 210 00:08:37,165 --> 00:08:38,533 Just find me the photograph. 211 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:39,799 - Yes, sir. - [Judge Levy] Page 44. 212 00:08:39,866 --> 00:08:41,165 Bedroom number two. 213 00:08:41,232 --> 00:08:43,200 Anything about that photograph? 214 00:08:43,265 --> 00:08:44,767 Uh, yeah. Patches. 215 00:08:44,834 --> 00:08:45,867 It was patched. 216 00:08:45,934 --> 00:08:46,834 [Judge Levy] Patches? 217 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:49,266 [Ricardo] There was a-- there was a TV right there 218 00:08:49,333 --> 00:08:50,300 that you won't see 219 00:08:50,367 --> 00:08:51,800 'cause they didn't took that picture 220 00:08:51,867 --> 00:08:53,667 - right for you to see the evidence. - [Juan] Actually, I do have a picture 221 00:08:53,734 --> 00:08:54,900 of those anchors, Your Honor. 222 00:08:54,967 --> 00:08:57,000 The exact anchors that he's talking about for the television. 223 00:08:57,066 --> 00:08:58,165 - [Judge Levy] I… - Let's see this scrape damage 224 00:08:58,233 --> 00:09:00,133 that they're talking about. 225 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:01,934 [Judge Levy] Do--does it sound like I need your help? 226 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,600 - No, sir. - [laughter] 227 00:09:03,667 --> 00:09:04,934 How are we doing on that photograph? 228 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,700 Your Honor, I--I've had a loss of some of my photos 229 00:09:08,767 --> 00:09:10,333 and I don't have any of the photos, other than the [indistinct]. 230 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,033 [Judge Levy] Great. That's what I figured you were gonna say. 231 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:15,200 So then you don't have any proof or evidence 232 00:09:15,266 --> 00:09:17,000 as to what these things looked like 233 00:09:17,066 --> 00:09:18,834 before he moved in. 234 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:21,800 But I think testimony of a handyman who is objective, 235 00:09:21,867 --> 00:09:25,100 I think his testimony as to the condition of the unit 236 00:09:25,166 --> 00:09:27,734 prior to the move-in is quite important. 237 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:29,567 [Judge Levy] [laughs] You know what the best evidence 238 00:09:29,633 --> 00:09:32,333 of the condition is at the time before move-in? 239 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,800 What's the best evidence? 240 00:09:33,867 --> 00:09:34,767 Video walkthrough. 241 00:09:34,834 --> 00:09:36,266 Video walkthrough, baby. 242 00:09:36,333 --> 00:09:37,433 Just so we're clear. 243 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,533 So any of the damage that you claim 244 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,000 when they left, you have no photographs 245 00:09:42,066 --> 00:09:44,066 to show what the property looked like before 246 00:09:44,133 --> 00:09:46,333 - and no videos. - That's correct, Your Honor. 247 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,066 [Judge Levy] Okay. Mr. Serrano, you can have a seat. 248 00:09:49,133 --> 00:09:50,033 Ma'am, step up. 249 00:09:50,867 --> 00:09:53,333 Ms. Vargas, do you have any information 250 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,667 that you can add about the security deposit? 251 00:09:55,734 --> 00:09:58,066 How was it that you two came to pay 252 00:09:58,133 --> 00:10:01,533 $6,390 security deposit 253 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,100 in July of 2021? 254 00:10:04,166 --> 00:10:06,200 Because she told me that-- 255 00:10:06,266 --> 00:10:08,166 first, she had told me 256 00:10:08,233 --> 00:10:09,767 she was going based on credit. 257 00:10:09,834 --> 00:10:10,967 I told her, "That's not a problem. 258 00:10:11,033 --> 00:10:12,734 I have good credit. We have good credit. 259 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,166 We've been working on that." 260 00:10:14,233 --> 00:10:15,800 And she was fine. 261 00:10:15,867 --> 00:10:18,066 Then when I brought my husband, she lied 262 00:10:18,133 --> 00:10:19,533 - and then she said… - [Judge Levy] Don't tell me she lied. 263 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,000 I don't wanna-- I don't wanna hear she lied. 264 00:10:21,066 --> 00:10:23,667 Okay. Well, then she added-- she said that I had to pay more now. 265 00:10:23,734 --> 00:10:25,433 [Judge Levy] Okay. So there was something 266 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:27,967 about the plaintiff's credit score 267 00:10:28,033 --> 00:10:29,800 that caused you concern? 268 00:10:29,867 --> 00:10:32,767 No. It wasn't the credit score specifically. 269 00:10:32,834 --> 00:10:33,834 What was it? 270 00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:35,333 He was self-employed 271 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,300 and did not have a high-earning capacity 272 00:10:38,367 --> 00:10:41,133 that was demonstrated on his bank statements 273 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,467 and things like that, so he was a high credit risk. 274 00:10:43,533 --> 00:10:47,433 [Judge Levy] Oh. How long was he working in his self-employment capacity? 275 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:48,500 - I believe… - [Judge Levy] Right? 276 00:10:48,567 --> 00:10:51,433 Because if you're working in your self-employment capacity for ten years 277 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:53,266 and you have a great credit rating, 278 00:10:53,333 --> 00:10:55,033 it suggests that you're a low risk. 279 00:10:55,100 --> 00:10:56,433 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 280 00:10:56,500 --> 00:10:58,333 How long was he working for himself? 281 00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,600 [Michelle] I don't recall, Your Honor. 282 00:10:59,667 --> 00:11:00,734 - I forgot the application. - All right. You know what? 283 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:01,967 I think I'm good. Judge Acker. 284 00:11:02,033 --> 00:11:03,633 I'm probably gonna have questions on the tail end of this. 285 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:05,500 - Go ahead, please. - [Judge Acker] Thank you, Judge Levy. 286 00:11:05,567 --> 00:11:08,367 There's a lot in this case that gets my spidey sense up. 287 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,066 Do you recall the text messages that you sent 288 00:11:11,133 --> 00:11:13,166 the defendant on or around July 2nd? 289 00:11:13,233 --> 00:11:15,100 - Yes. - [Judge Acker] I'm gonna read them. 290 00:11:15,767 --> 00:11:17,500 - Go ahead. - You proud of them? 291 00:11:17,567 --> 00:11:20,633 You know, uh, again, I was pushed to this point, 292 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:24,533 and my opinion about her and any predictions I made 293 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,166 are--yeah, those are my statements. 294 00:11:27,233 --> 00:11:29,233 July 3rd, and I believe, ma'am, 295 00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:31,233 this is you responding to a discussion 296 00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:33,233 about returning the mailbox key 297 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:35,834 - and getting the lock off the garage. - I think, Your Honor, yes. 298 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:37,800 [Judge Acker] "Let me know when you remove your lock 299 00:11:37,867 --> 00:11:40,266 and I will arrange to have a new one put on. 300 00:11:40,333 --> 00:11:42,500 You can leave your mailbox key in the mailbox. 301 00:11:42,567 --> 00:11:43,800 Just leave it unlocked. 302 00:11:43,867 --> 00:11:46,133 No need for a final walkthrough." 303 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,333 This is from Mr. Cardenas. 304 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,834 "You [bleep]. 305 00:11:49,900 --> 00:11:51,100 You [bleep] up. 306 00:11:51,165 --> 00:11:53,200 You made a mistake you're not aware of. 307 00:11:53,266 --> 00:11:56,934 Keep [bleep] with me and you're going to find out what it is." 308 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,333 The defendant, "Please do not call me anymore. 309 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:01,934 Do not threaten me. 310 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,100 I will put a restraining order if necessary 311 00:12:04,166 --> 00:12:05,734 with your MMA background. 312 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,000 Please communicate via email. 313 00:12:08,066 --> 00:12:09,000 Thank you." 314 00:12:09,066 --> 00:12:10,734 From Mr. Cardenas. 315 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,100 "Who trained you, you stupid [bleep]. 316 00:12:13,166 --> 00:12:16,166 I've had enough pretending to tolerate you. 317 00:12:16,233 --> 00:12:18,166 Renting from you was the equivalent 318 00:12:18,233 --> 00:12:20,600 of living under a third-world tyrant." 319 00:12:20,667 --> 00:12:22,266 And then it seems ma'am 320 00:12:22,333 --> 00:12:25,166 that you reached out to Ms. Cardenas. 321 00:12:25,233 --> 00:12:27,700 "I suggest you get your husband under control 322 00:12:27,767 --> 00:12:30,000 because I'm about to make a police report 323 00:12:30,066 --> 00:12:31,500 and get a restraining order." 324 00:12:31,567 --> 00:12:33,567 And then from Mr. Cardenas. 325 00:12:33,633 --> 00:12:34,867 "I will quit calling you 326 00:12:34,934 --> 00:12:36,834 when you give me my [bleep] money back. 327 00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:39,066 You [bleep] rap [bleep]." 328 00:12:39,133 --> 00:12:41,767 Tell me what lesson you were gonna teach her? 329 00:12:41,834 --> 00:12:44,633 Oh, the two civil court cases that she has on her. 330 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:46,233 That was the mistake she made. 331 00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:48,867 That was what I explained to the judge in the restraining order. 332 00:12:48,934 --> 00:12:52,100 Now, I didn't think I was gonna have to defend myself 333 00:12:52,165 --> 00:12:53,500 against the restraining order again. 334 00:12:53,567 --> 00:12:55,500 She may have nickel-and-dimed you, 335 00:12:55,567 --> 00:12:58,467 but if you think I'm just gonna sit here and let you be smug 336 00:12:58,533 --> 00:13:01,433 because she overcharged you for a security deposit 337 00:13:01,500 --> 00:13:03,734 while you threatened violence, you are nuts. 338 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,000 Where's the threat? 339 00:13:05,066 --> 00:13:08,433 "Keep [bleep] with me and you're going to find out what it is." 340 00:13:08,500 --> 00:13:10,567 You don't think that's a threat, sir? 341 00:13:10,633 --> 00:13:11,734 So you're threatening me? 342 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,467 [Judge Acker] No. I'm reading your language, silly. 343 00:13:13,533 --> 00:13:14,667 - [laughter] - [Judge Acker laughs] 344 00:13:14,734 --> 00:13:16,767 Isn't that funny? Wow. 345 00:13:16,834 --> 00:13:18,333 [Judge DiMango] She just… 346 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,100 Did that really just happen? 347 00:13:20,166 --> 00:13:21,700 That really just happened. 348 00:13:21,767 --> 00:13:23,533 I repeated the words 349 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,233 that you said, "Where is the threat I made to her?" 350 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:27,600 I read it and you are absolutely… 351 00:13:27,667 --> 00:13:29,367 - [Juan] So fine. - … showing who you are. 352 00:13:29,433 --> 00:13:30,500 [Juan] Yeah, I am. 353 00:13:30,567 --> 00:13:34,266 I'm a […] man here fighting for his kids' money, 354 00:13:34,333 --> 00:13:35,934 food from their mouths. 355 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000 I'll have you know. 356 00:13:37,066 --> 00:13:39,367 So, yes, this is important to me. 357 00:13:40,934 --> 00:13:42,667 [Judge Acker] You better calm yourself down. 358 00:13:42,734 --> 00:13:44,667 [Petri] Twenty-five years I've been doing this, all right? 359 00:13:45,433 --> 00:13:48,233 I need for you--just listen. 360 00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:50,333 Answer the questions that are put to you. 361 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:51,800 If you don't agree with it, move on, all right? 362 00:13:51,867 --> 00:13:52,967 I know why you got the restraining order. 363 00:13:53,033 --> 00:13:55,266 - [Petri] You understand what I'm saying? - I have some big problems with your case 364 00:13:55,333 --> 00:13:57,033 but I cannot imagine having to live with this. 365 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,066 [Petri] You understand what I'm saying, right? 366 00:13:59,133 --> 00:14:01,734 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 367 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,967 You said you mailed two security deposit checks. 368 00:14:05,033 --> 00:14:07,433 They were lost within the priority mail system. 369 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:08,333 Thank you. 370 00:14:08,433 --> 00:14:11,266 Where's your stop payment on those two checks? 371 00:14:11,333 --> 00:14:13,300 [dramatic musical sting] 372 00:14:15,033 --> 00:14:16,700 [theme music plays] 373 00:14:16,767 --> 00:14:19,834 [announcer] Juan Cardenas is suing landlord, Michelle Steuber, 374 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:21,233 for his security deposit 375 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:25,066 and for improperly notifying him of a rent increase. 376 00:14:25,133 --> 00:14:28,367 Michelle is countersuing, claiming that Juan threatened her 377 00:14:28,433 --> 00:14:31,133 with violence, caused her lost wages, 378 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,633 and breached the lease. 379 00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:36,266 You submitted a picture, because when Judge Levy 380 00:14:36,333 --> 00:14:39,266 was inquiring about the damages, 381 00:14:39,333 --> 00:14:41,467 we looked at the plaintiff's damages. 382 00:14:41,533 --> 00:14:43,867 So then I looked at your damages, 383 00:14:43,934 --> 00:14:46,367 and there was a picture of the bathroom 384 00:14:46,433 --> 00:14:47,834 that you submitted in your evidence 385 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:51,033 - and it was a sink coming off the wall. - [Michelle] Yes. 386 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,367 This literally just happened in my house several months ago. 387 00:14:53,433 --> 00:14:55,700 It starts to slowly come off the wall. 388 00:14:55,767 --> 00:14:58,467 There's nothing I did. I wasn't like, you know--unless-- 389 00:14:58,533 --> 00:15:02,066 and, again, don't use this moment to pile on. 390 00:15:02,133 --> 00:15:03,100 I've seen who he is. 391 00:15:03,166 --> 00:15:05,834 But there's no evidence that they did anything 392 00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:07,800 to move the sink off of the wall. 393 00:15:07,867 --> 00:15:09,200 It's a pedestal sink. 394 00:15:09,266 --> 00:15:10,867 It shouldn't be pulled away 395 00:15:10,934 --> 00:15:12,734 unless someone's pulling on it, 396 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,100 leaning against it. 397 00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:15,600 But also in that picture 398 00:15:15,667 --> 00:15:16,700 - was the two little holes. - [Judge Acker] Well, I gotta tell you. 399 00:15:16,767 --> 00:15:18,667 I mean, come on. Come on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. 400 00:15:18,734 --> 00:15:20,800 You've used a sink. You've been in a restroom. 401 00:15:20,867 --> 00:15:23,233 If we're gonna stay--you know, people lean on sinks. 402 00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:24,233 They brush their teeth. 403 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:25,900 - It was the two holes above it. - [Judge Acker] You went too far. 404 00:15:25,967 --> 00:15:27,367 - Like you went too far. - No, no, no. 405 00:15:27,433 --> 00:15:29,867 - Okay. - [Judge Acker] I know that you're upset. 406 00:15:29,934 --> 00:15:32,133 I know he said things to you that were upsetting. 407 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,100 I didn't read the text message where he said, 408 00:15:34,165 --> 00:15:36,567 "You were gonna die alone and be eaten by your dog," 409 00:15:36,633 --> 00:15:39,300 or some such thing 'cause that's there too. 410 00:15:39,367 --> 00:15:41,633 - I was imparting she's a lonely [bleep]. - [Judge Acker] But… 411 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:43,633 - [Maria] Stop. Stop. - [Judge Acker] Oh, what was it? 412 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:44,900 - [Cassandra] You're doing too much. - [Maria] Stop. 413 00:15:44,967 --> 00:15:46,400 [Cassandra] You're doing too much. 414 00:15:46,467 --> 00:15:48,900 You need to stop it now. 415 00:15:48,967 --> 00:15:51,367 - Yes, ma'am. - [Cassandra] You're doing too much. 416 00:15:52,333 --> 00:15:53,400 - I understand. - [Cassandra] Too much. 417 00:15:54,233 --> 00:15:58,367 But the fact that he has a horrible anger management problem 418 00:15:58,433 --> 00:16:00,900 and suggest violence to you, 419 00:16:00,967 --> 00:16:02,734 means that you did the thing you were supposed to do. 420 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,967 You were supposed to go to court and you were supposed 421 00:16:05,033 --> 00:16:06,166 - to get a restraining order. - [Michelle] Yes. 422 00:16:06,233 --> 00:16:08,633 It doesn't mean that you get to keep extra money. 423 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:09,867 Judge DiMango. 424 00:16:10,667 --> 00:16:13,033 Let me just preface this by saying the both of you 425 00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:14,700 need to be a little more Italian, 426 00:16:14,767 --> 00:16:18,633 which is this isn't personal, it's business. 427 00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:20,433 You feel this is somehow 428 00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,800 insulting your whole person 429 00:16:22,867 --> 00:16:23,867 and you who you are, 430 00:16:23,934 --> 00:16:26,266 and so your responses, 431 00:16:26,333 --> 00:16:29,900 as wildly inappropriate as they were, 432 00:16:29,967 --> 00:16:31,567 were to make her feel 433 00:16:31,633 --> 00:16:35,133 as personally inadequate as you felt. 434 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,200 Would I be correct about that? 435 00:16:37,500 --> 00:16:38,767 Yes. That's correct. 436 00:16:38,834 --> 00:16:42,133 And can you understand that other part of this? 437 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:43,667 - Yes. Of course, Your Honor. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 438 00:16:43,734 --> 00:16:45,200 So that being said, 439 00:16:45,266 --> 00:16:46,900 you have done some things 440 00:16:46,967 --> 00:16:48,967 that I want you to explain to me, 441 00:16:49,033 --> 00:16:50,767 because I was reading this and I'm thinking 442 00:16:50,834 --> 00:16:54,165 you said you mailed them two checks, 443 00:16:54,233 --> 00:16:57,133 two security deposit checks, right? 444 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,133 They were lost within the priority mail system. 445 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,100 - [Judge DiMango] Thank you. - Yes. 446 00:17:00,166 --> 00:17:01,600 [Judge DiMango] That's where I wanted to go. 447 00:17:01,667 --> 00:17:05,266 Where is your stop payment on those two checks? 448 00:17:05,333 --> 00:17:08,400 You don't have one, 'cause I don't think you ever mailed them. 449 00:17:08,467 --> 00:17:12,433 Oh, I have the priority mail document that was given to… 450 00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:14,500 No checks, but you didn't stop payment on those. 451 00:17:14,567 --> 00:17:17,532 I would stop payment on $5,100 worth of checks if I thought 452 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:18,867 they never got delivered. 453 00:17:18,934 --> 00:17:21,433 Second thing is is you have here 454 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:26,000 submitted this security deposit accounting statement final addendum. 455 00:17:26,066 --> 00:17:28,066 - This did go to him, right? - Yes. 456 00:17:28,133 --> 00:17:29,800 [Judge DiMango] And in here you say 457 00:17:29,867 --> 00:17:33,100 that the things that you were seeking money for-- 458 00:17:33,166 --> 00:17:35,367 repair surface of tub 459 00:17:35,433 --> 00:17:38,233 because tenant used abrasive cleaner. 460 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:40,233 - Of course, you could use a cleaner. - [Michelle] No, no, no. 461 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:41,834 - You can't on a glazed tub. - [Judge DiMango] Not your tub? 462 00:17:41,900 --> 00:17:44,166 When was the last time you had it glazed? 463 00:17:44,233 --> 00:17:45,633 Right before they moved in. 464 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:47,200 Two years? You did everything before they moved in. 465 00:17:47,266 --> 00:17:49,033 - [Michelle] Uh-hmm. That's correct. - Do you have a receipt for that? 466 00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:50,100 Not with me. 467 00:17:50,166 --> 00:17:52,066 The other thing you said is, 468 00:17:52,133 --> 00:17:53,633 "The inside of the cabinets 469 00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:56,133 were also marred and dirty 470 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,166 from such items as pots and pans 471 00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:01,367 being moved in and out." 472 00:18:01,433 --> 00:18:03,967 How do you get your pots and pans out of your cabinets? 473 00:18:04,433 --> 00:18:07,033 Make believe that your phone is a pan. 474 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:07,934 Take it out. 475 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,266 Take it out so I could see how you don't scrape it. 476 00:18:10,333 --> 00:18:11,300 Do it. 477 00:18:11,367 --> 00:18:12,600 You lift and you took. 478 00:18:12,667 --> 00:18:14,633 - You really do that? [whistles] - [Michelle] Yeah. 479 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:16,166 [Michelle] And my other tenants don't have… 480 00:18:16,233 --> 00:18:17,233 [laughter] 481 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,633 [Michelle] I've had tenants in my properties for five years and not… 482 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:21,166 - [Judge DiMango] I don't know. - … done the damages to the inside… 483 00:18:21,233 --> 00:18:24,500 But to go one further on that, you wrote "But as a courtesy, 484 00:18:24,567 --> 00:18:26,500 I am not charging the tenant 485 00:18:26,567 --> 00:18:29,900 for repainting those surfaces." 486 00:18:29,967 --> 00:18:32,033 And what do I see here… 487 00:18:33,467 --> 00:18:35,700 painting inside of cabinets. 488 00:18:35,767 --> 00:18:38,233 - Because… - What? Because what? 489 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:40,400 Because this is the point. 490 00:18:40,467 --> 00:18:43,600 You're nickel-and-diming and you have a personality. 491 00:18:43,667 --> 00:18:45,433 It's like holier-than-thou. 492 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:49,066 His personality is "I take everything personally. 493 00:18:49,133 --> 00:18:50,900 I've worked hard. I'm an immigrant. 494 00:18:50,967 --> 00:18:54,767 I wanna be accepted for who I am, and you're not doing that. 495 00:18:54,834 --> 00:18:56,033 You're treating me differently." 496 00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,233 The two of you are like vinegar and oil. 497 00:18:58,300 --> 00:19:00,934 And so this escalates and escalates. 498 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,700 And the sink, I mean, literally, you'd have to stand on that sink 499 00:19:05,767 --> 00:19:07,467 to make it come off the wall. 500 00:19:07,533 --> 00:19:10,033 Things like that happen. 501 00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:11,633 About the sink 502 00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:14,400 when he came to unclog it to help me out greatly, 503 00:19:14,467 --> 00:19:15,734 that's when the sink was moved. 504 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,066 - You have to take--yes. - So he had to remove 505 00:19:17,133 --> 00:19:19,800 - the sink to unclog it? - Yeah, because you can't get to the… 506 00:19:19,867 --> 00:19:21,800 - [Judge DiMango] Ah, that's a good point. - I didn't move it. 507 00:19:21,867 --> 00:19:23,433 [Judge DiMango] Sir, I'm gonna ask you. 508 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:24,433 Correct? 509 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:28,200 I did move the base on the bottom, not the sink. 510 00:19:28,266 --> 00:19:30,133 - So you took the bottom off? - [Ricardo] Yeah. 511 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,533 And left the top just sitting there? 512 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,533 - [Ricardo] Yeah, 'cause… - That's even worse. 513 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,066 'Cause now the weight of the top 514 00:19:34,133 --> 00:19:36,567 is not being handled by the pedestal itself, 515 00:19:36,633 --> 00:19:37,967 it's coming off the wall. 516 00:19:40,433 --> 00:19:42,166 Your rent was going to go up. 517 00:19:42,233 --> 00:19:43,734 You didn't get 30-day notice. 518 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,867 She showed up with another one year lease. 519 00:19:45,934 --> 00:19:47,867 Basically, I felt like I needed to sign. 520 00:19:47,934 --> 00:19:49,367 Where else was I gonna go? I have my kids. 521 00:19:49,433 --> 00:19:52,000 Here she comes knocking on the door, no notice. 522 00:19:52,066 --> 00:19:53,166 [knocks] 523 00:19:53,233 --> 00:19:54,467 "You're gonna keep dealing with me 524 00:19:54,533 --> 00:19:56,300 and I got you right where I want you." 525 00:19:56,367 --> 00:19:57,200 Boom. 526 00:19:57,266 --> 00:19:59,166 They did have proper notice. 527 00:19:59,233 --> 00:20:00,400 I don't wanna hear from you. 528 00:20:00,467 --> 00:20:01,533 How dare you. 529 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,533 [announcer] Next time on Tribunal Justice. 530 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,000 Did someone break an agreement? 531 00:20:07,066 --> 00:20:10,300 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 532 00:20:10,367 --> 00:20:13,033 Find us on social media. 533 00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:16,166 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]