1 00:00:06,867 --> 00:00:08,467 I don't look at her as a grandmother anymore. 2 00:00:10,734 --> 00:00:13,333 I've faced manipulation, emotional abuse. 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:17,867 You ma'am, actually called the police on your granddaughter, didn't you? 4 00:00:17,934 --> 00:00:19,166 Yeah, you did. 5 00:00:19,266 --> 00:00:20,266 I feared for my life. 6 00:00:21,066 --> 00:00:24,500 Do you remember those text messages that you sent to your grandmother? 7 00:00:24,567 --> 00:00:27,467 "I can't wait 'till you die." 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,567 Extremely hurt. My granddaughter who I've loved her whole life 9 00:00:33,633 --> 00:00:36,033 would turn vicious on me. 10 00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:39,233 [announcer] Now on Tribunal Justice. 11 00:00:39,300 --> 00:00:42,834 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays] 12 00:01:00,433 --> 00:01:03,700 [announcer] Today's case was filed in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,834 [Cassandra] Your Honor, this is case number 2005, 14 00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:08,800 Lindberg versus Scifo. 15 00:01:08,867 --> 00:01:10,700 Thank you, Cassandra. 16 00:01:10,767 --> 00:01:12,166 [Cassandra] All parties have been sworn in. 17 00:01:12,233 --> 00:01:13,500 - [Judge DiMango] Thank you. - You may be seated. 18 00:01:13,567 --> 00:01:15,967 [Judge DiMango] Sad case. 19 00:01:16,033 --> 00:01:20,600 This is a lawsuit over property owned by your son, 20 00:01:20,667 --> 00:01:21,934 - your father. - [Amber] Correct. 21 00:01:22,033 --> 00:01:24,066 So you are the defendant's granddaughter. 22 00:01:24,166 --> 00:01:25,233 Uh-hmm. 23 00:01:25,333 --> 00:01:28,200 [Judge DiMango] You're saying that you own your late father's vehicle. 24 00:01:28,300 --> 00:01:30,934 She has it. She refuses to return it to you. 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,934 You're here seeking the vehicle, correct? 26 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,066 Correct. Yes. 27 00:01:34,166 --> 00:01:35,700 But ma'am, your position is, 28 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,567 is all she cared about was her father's property. 29 00:01:38,667 --> 00:01:40,967 You want it, and you have a need for it 30 00:01:41,033 --> 00:01:42,900 because your car doesn't work anymore, correct? 31 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,800 Yes. My car is in dire need 32 00:01:45,866 --> 00:01:48,166 of major repair work, the one that I own and... 33 00:01:48,233 --> 00:01:49,633 [Judge DiMango] Who owns the car, do you know? 34 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:51,467 Who owns the car? 35 00:01:51,533 --> 00:01:54,633 She went and she titled it in her name. 36 00:01:54,700 --> 00:01:55,633 [Judge DiMango] So now let me stop. 37 00:01:55,700 --> 00:02:01,066 Your late dad, late son's vehicle is the 2011 Dodge Avenger. 38 00:02:01,133 --> 00:02:02,433 So let's take a look at that car. 39 00:02:02,533 --> 00:02:05,233 That's what is causing a family rift. 40 00:02:05,300 --> 00:02:07,333 That's the reality here. 41 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,032 Your father passed away. When was that? 42 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:10,265 February 24th. 43 00:02:10,366 --> 00:02:12,567 Who took care of his affairs and his estate? 44 00:02:12,633 --> 00:02:17,500 Um, so it was mostly I was stuck with the paying for things part, 45 00:02:17,567 --> 00:02:20,433 aside from his ashes and some t-shirts, 46 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:22,300 that's all I have of his material possession. 47 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,233 [Judge DiMango] Uh, that's not quite the question I asked you. 48 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:25,533 Did you settle all those affairs? 49 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,000 Did you pay his bills or did she? 50 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:28,200 - Who did this? - [Amber] Just the vehicles. 51 00:02:28,266 --> 00:02:30,934 - I settled the liens on the vehicles. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 52 00:02:31,033 --> 00:02:33,000 I think we have proof of the lien on the vehicle 53 00:02:33,100 --> 00:02:36,266 and we have proof from the lienholder indicating that you did pay 54 00:02:36,333 --> 00:02:41,066 $3,000 on June 6th to pay off that debt. 55 00:02:41,133 --> 00:02:44,934 We have bank statements indicating that you paid that $3,000 56 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,066 and that's proof that you actually paid it. 57 00:02:47,133 --> 00:02:50,800 Now, the transfer title to her name, she now owns this vehicle. 58 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:54,934 So for you to get this vehicle from her, she'd have to gift it to you 59 00:02:55,033 --> 00:02:57,934 because it's her car now, do you agree with that, ma'am? 60 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,367 She's titled it in her name unbeknownst to the parties involved. 61 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:09,066 We all decided as a family that we were not going to sell, trade, 62 00:03:09,133 --> 00:03:13,567 uh, title, do things, uh, give away any of his belongings 63 00:03:13,633 --> 00:03:18,200 unless we all agreed upon things as a whole. 64 00:03:18,266 --> 00:03:20,066 Ms. Lindberg was notified that I had one... 65 00:03:20,133 --> 00:03:22,200 Did your son die with a will or without a will? 66 00:03:22,266 --> 00:03:23,633 - Without. I mean... - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 67 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:24,834 - So he died intestate. - All right. 68 00:03:24,934 --> 00:03:27,133 So that means that there are legal implications 69 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,300 that automatically come into effect 70 00:03:29,367 --> 00:03:32,133 when an individual passes without having a will. 71 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,600 Do you have a mother to whom your father is still married? 72 00:03:35,667 --> 00:03:37,100 - Does he have a wife? - No. 73 00:03:37,166 --> 00:03:39,367 [Judge DiMango] Okay. Usually when an individual dies, 74 00:03:39,433 --> 00:03:42,367 if he dies with a wife, the estate goes to the wife. 75 00:03:42,433 --> 00:03:46,567 So now, your father's estate would pass in full to you 76 00:03:46,934 --> 00:03:49,500 and therefore you would be entitled to his property. 77 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,533 If the property passes to her and she legally owns it, 78 00:03:52,867 --> 00:03:56,533 the only way you can get that from her is if she gifts it to you. 79 00:03:56,867 --> 00:04:00,533 Now, is your position as well, ma'am, that you don't even have the car? 80 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,867 It's with the mechanic. 81 00:04:02,934 --> 00:04:05,900 But you were the last person to have this car, would that be correct? 82 00:04:05,967 --> 00:04:08,033 - [Margaret] Yes. - And you don't disagree. 83 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:10,633 In fact, you have a witness, and you could step up. 84 00:04:10,734 --> 00:04:13,600 This is your cousin. This is like a whole family affair here, 85 00:04:13,700 --> 00:04:15,467 because you're an uncle I'm guessing, right? 86 00:04:15,567 --> 00:04:16,667 - Yes. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 87 00:04:16,733 --> 00:04:19,767 - So your name please for the record? - Alexandra Strzok. 88 00:04:20,065 --> 00:04:21,033 [Judge DiMango] That's not your dad, is it? 89 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:21,934 - [Alexandra] No. - [Judge DiMango] Okay. 90 00:04:22,033 --> 00:04:24,800 So that would-- that would really bring this full circle. 91 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:28,200 So you believe that the defendant had the vehicle. 92 00:04:28,266 --> 00:04:29,400 How is it that you believe that? 93 00:04:29,467 --> 00:04:34,700 Um, so on May 12th, we actually drove past the house and saw it in her driveway 94 00:04:34,767 --> 00:04:37,200 and took pictures of the plates and the... 95 00:04:37,266 --> 00:04:39,567 And you took pictures of the car in the driveway? 96 00:04:39,633 --> 00:04:43,800 Correct. It's--so, it's not--you can't see the actual driveway in the house 97 00:04:43,900 --> 00:04:46,700 in the background but the photos are time-stamped 98 00:04:47,033 --> 00:04:48,933 and location-stamped with her address. 99 00:04:49,033 --> 00:04:51,633 So that's the license plate and that license plate 100 00:04:51,734 --> 00:04:53,700 is actually in your driveway. 101 00:04:53,767 --> 00:04:56,200 It's amazing what they could find out about you these days. 102 00:04:56,266 --> 00:04:58,867 And they also know what you ate for dinner when they drove by and took this picture. 103 00:04:58,933 --> 00:04:59,967 [indistinct] 104 00:05:00,133 --> 00:05:01,867 This was on May 12th, correct, ladies? 105 00:05:01,967 --> 00:05:02,900 - [Amber] Yes. - May 12th. 106 00:05:02,967 --> 00:05:04,667 Did you have the car on that date? 107 00:05:04,767 --> 00:05:08,967 Well, Ms. Lindberg was notified on June 1st with a text message 108 00:05:09,033 --> 00:05:10,934 that I was interested in the car. 109 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,600 She did not respond in any way, shape, or form 110 00:05:14,667 --> 00:05:19,166 that she was interested in the car or she was doing anything with the car. 111 00:05:19,266 --> 00:05:21,900 Did your son ever give you the car to use beforehand? 112 00:05:21,967 --> 00:05:24,500 Why was the car in your driveway in the first place? 113 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,332 [Margaret] Because we had gone to Madison for his last checkup clearance before... 114 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:29,967 [Judge DiMango] He just drove it, brought it to you, 115 00:05:30,033 --> 00:05:33,800 and you were the one that drove to bring him to the doctor for this transplant, 116 00:05:33,867 --> 00:05:35,300 - would that be correct? - Yes, I did. 117 00:05:35,367 --> 00:05:39,000 [Judge DiMango] Because really you're holding, it appears, this vehicle hostage. 118 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:41,233 - Where is it? - Car is with the mechanic. 119 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:43,367 - Do you know the mechanic? - Yes, I do. 120 00:05:43,433 --> 00:05:45,500 - Did you bring it to the mechanic? - Yes, I did. 121 00:05:45,567 --> 00:05:48,867 It was in for general work and tune-up. 122 00:05:48,967 --> 00:05:50,667 Did you tell her where it was? 123 00:05:50,967 --> 00:05:53,767 Because I believe we also have something that we could put up there 124 00:05:53,834 --> 00:05:56,133 which are some text messages, which say, 125 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,467 "Where's the car, grandma? 126 00:05:58,533 --> 00:06:00,300 Grandma, are you gonna tell us where the car is?" 127 00:06:00,367 --> 00:06:02,266 - [Margaret] With the mechanic. - Again. 128 00:06:02,333 --> 00:06:05,867 Okay. Let's see. Uncle, let's step up. 129 00:06:05,934 --> 00:06:09,967 Maybe you can offer something here a little more than because she wants it. 130 00:06:10,033 --> 00:06:12,166 - What is your last name, sir? - [Brett] Kopp. 131 00:06:12,233 --> 00:06:14,233 [Judge DiMango] So Mr. Kopp, what can you offer here? 132 00:06:14,300 --> 00:06:19,000 This started, um, like, uh, as everything else here now, 133 00:06:19,066 --> 00:06:20,967 uh, with my brother's passing. 134 00:06:21,033 --> 00:06:27,033 We were trying to settle everything by discussing as a family 135 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:29,000 before anybody did anything rash 136 00:06:29,066 --> 00:06:31,033 as far as, you know, going out of their way 137 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:34,900 to title things or take things or lay claim to possession. 138 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,700 However, in a situation where an individual dies without a will, 139 00:06:38,767 --> 00:06:40,600 it transfers to his wife. 140 00:06:40,700 --> 00:06:42,467 If no wife, to the siblings what they call, 141 00:06:42,533 --> 00:06:44,967 per stirpes, divided equally. 142 00:06:45,033 --> 00:06:46,834 So, I'm not sure what you're disputing here. 143 00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,133 I'm disputing the fact of the evidence that we have 144 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,967 that has the destruction of my mother's car 145 00:06:55,033 --> 00:06:59,166 to render it more inoperable. 146 00:06:59,233 --> 00:07:01,867 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 147 00:07:01,934 --> 00:07:03,266 Do you remember those text messages 148 00:07:03,333 --> 00:07:05,800 that you sent to your grandmother, Ms. Lindberg, 149 00:07:05,867 --> 00:07:09,767 "How does it feel that you killed your own son? 150 00:07:10,166 --> 00:07:13,300 Feeding him pills like the psycho you are?" 151 00:07:13,367 --> 00:07:14,767 [dramatic musical sting] 152 00:07:16,467 --> 00:07:18,433 [theme music plays] 153 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:22,266 [announcer] Amber Lindberg is suing her grandmother, Margaret Scifo, 154 00:07:22,332 --> 00:07:25,100 for the return of her deceased father's car. 155 00:07:25,166 --> 00:07:27,467 But Margaret claims she has every right to it, 156 00:07:27,533 --> 00:07:30,433 since it was her son who died. 157 00:07:30,500 --> 00:07:32,433 I'm not sure what you're disputing here. 158 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:36,633 I'm disputing the fact of the evidence that we have 159 00:07:36,734 --> 00:07:41,066 that has the destruction of my mother's car 160 00:07:41,133 --> 00:07:43,500 to render it more inoperable. 161 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,367 So we do have a photograph of what you're referring to, and that would be, 162 00:07:46,433 --> 00:07:51,433 the other vehicle that the defendant has, which is her 2007, I believe. 163 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:52,834 Yeah, it's a Ford Five Hundred. 164 00:07:52,933 --> 00:07:55,600 [Judge DiMango] That same vehicle with a cracked windshield 165 00:07:55,667 --> 00:07:58,633 which no one saw anybody break, correct? 166 00:07:58,734 --> 00:07:59,800 Unfortunately, no. 167 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:01,233 - [Judge DiMango] Did you do it? - No. 168 00:08:01,333 --> 00:08:02,433 [Judge DiMango] Her position is, "I didn't do it." 169 00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:05,300 Your side, the defendant, wanting us to believe 170 00:08:05,367 --> 00:08:07,300 that the reason this is damaged at all 171 00:08:07,367 --> 00:08:11,633 is because this was retaliatory by the plaintiff for what, the lawsuit? 172 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,834 She owns it. What does she have to do anything for? 173 00:08:13,900 --> 00:08:17,133 We were unaware that she had titled the car. 174 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,200 We were willing to title the car. 175 00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:22,967 We were in fact in the process of looking to find out what it would take, so... 176 00:08:23,033 --> 00:08:25,300 [Judge DiMango] But it wasn't yours to title. 177 00:08:25,367 --> 00:08:27,667 She gets it through inheritance. 178 00:08:28,133 --> 00:08:30,533 Now I don't know what your financial status is. 179 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,100 I don't know if you have another car. What do you do for a living? 180 00:08:33,165 --> 00:08:35,700 I'm an officer manager for a financial company. 181 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:36,967 [Judge DiMango] Do you have another vehicle? 182 00:08:37,033 --> 00:08:38,133 I do. 183 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,332 So what are you gonna do with this vehicle? 184 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,066 Well, me and my fiancé would probably split it 185 00:08:42,165 --> 00:08:43,700 because my car isn't doing the best either. 186 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,200 And the value on this car is approximately between 5,000 and $6,000 187 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:50,867 according to Kelley Blue Book, but you would take money for it? 188 00:08:50,967 --> 00:08:53,967 If that's the only thing I can get, if I can't get the vehicle, 189 00:08:54,033 --> 00:08:56,233 - then I would, yeah. - Judge Levy? 190 00:08:56,333 --> 00:08:57,834 [Judge Levy] Let me start with this, Ms. Scifo. 191 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:02,133 A parent should never have to bury their child. 192 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:03,333 Never. 193 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,900 But that's not why we're here. 194 00:09:06,033 --> 00:09:10,200 We're here because the plaintiff did what she was supposed to do 195 00:09:10,266 --> 00:09:13,066 after her dad died and she settled his estate. 196 00:09:13,133 --> 00:09:14,934 That's why we're here. 197 00:09:15,033 --> 00:09:19,333 This isn't about feelings or you wanting something from your deceased son. 198 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,500 - Do you, ma'am, understand that? - Yes. 199 00:09:21,567 --> 00:09:23,800 [Judge Levy] Not to say that this isn't already bad enough, 200 00:09:23,867 --> 00:09:28,233 but you, ma'am, actually called the police on your granddaughter, didn't you? 201 00:09:28,333 --> 00:09:30,266 - Yes. - [Judge Levy] Yeah, you did. 202 00:09:30,367 --> 00:09:32,800 Why don't you tell us about that, Ms. Lindberg? 203 00:09:32,867 --> 00:09:35,900 What happened? It was June of 2023. 204 00:09:35,967 --> 00:09:38,834 - Yes. Um, so we... - We meaning who? 205 00:09:38,900 --> 00:09:41,266 - Alex and I. - [Judge Levy] Okay. 206 00:09:41,367 --> 00:09:44,400 There was many failed attempts at reaching Margaret. 207 00:09:44,467 --> 00:09:49,767 So we were in the area and we were going to stop by her house 208 00:09:49,867 --> 00:09:50,834 to see if she was there. 209 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:53,500 Um, I didn't--I was a little nervous, 210 00:09:53,567 --> 00:09:57,433 so Alex went and she confronted Margaret 211 00:09:57,533 --> 00:09:59,433 and asked where the vehicle was. 212 00:09:59,533 --> 00:10:01,600 Um, so Margaret was on the phone, 213 00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:03,834 she told whoever she was on the phone with, 214 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:07,033 um, to call 911 multiple times, 215 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:10,867 and me and Alex were like, "All right, we're outta here." 216 00:10:10,934 --> 00:10:15,433 Um, and there were around three or four cop cars that flew up behind us 217 00:10:15,533 --> 00:10:19,367 and ordered us to get out of the vehicle with our hands drawn. 218 00:10:19,433 --> 00:10:21,333 Okay. Ms. Scifo, why don't you tell us 219 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,500 what you told the police regarding your granddaughter here 220 00:10:24,567 --> 00:10:28,734 that got 911 to send three or four patrol cars 221 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,200 speeding to your home 222 00:10:31,266 --> 00:10:35,000 to order your granddaughter to raise her hands and to stand still? 223 00:10:35,066 --> 00:10:36,165 I was not on the phone. 224 00:10:36,233 --> 00:10:37,567 I was in the back. 225 00:10:37,633 --> 00:10:39,800 - Really? - [Margaret] Alex came around the corner. 226 00:10:39,867 --> 00:10:41,734 - All I said to Alex... - [Judge Levy] Okay. 227 00:10:41,834 --> 00:10:44,967 You know, Ms. Scifo, you have a very strange relationship with the truth 228 00:10:45,033 --> 00:10:48,066 and that's why police reports are so important and so useful, 229 00:10:48,133 --> 00:10:51,533 because when calls are made to 911, Cassandra, what happens? 230 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,367 - They record them. - They record them. 231 00:10:53,433 --> 00:10:58,100 So, July 8th, 2023, 7:16 PM, 232 00:10:58,165 --> 00:10:59,867 best friend of the mother calling. 233 00:10:59,934 --> 00:11:04,000 Subject, your granddaughter went to your grandma's house to find the vehicle. 234 00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:06,767 Grandma stated the vehicle was in the shop. 235 00:11:06,834 --> 00:11:08,000 Ready for this? 236 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:09,767 Grandma--that's you-- 237 00:11:10,333 --> 00:11:14,467 said that because her granddaughter is known to have a carry permit, 238 00:11:14,533 --> 00:11:16,533 you believe she had a gun. 239 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,834 What are the most dangerous types of cases 240 00:11:18,934 --> 00:11:21,400 where officers find themselves getting shot? 241 00:11:21,467 --> 00:11:23,066 - Domestics. - Domestics. 242 00:11:23,133 --> 00:11:24,900 That's why five of them showed up. 243 00:11:24,967 --> 00:11:26,967 They think she has a gun. 244 00:11:27,066 --> 00:11:29,500 That could have gone sideways real fast. 245 00:11:29,567 --> 00:11:31,767 And it wasn't until 7:37 246 00:11:31,834 --> 00:11:35,867 when you're interviewed face-to-face by a police officer 247 00:11:35,934 --> 00:11:37,200 in which you said, 248 00:11:37,266 --> 00:11:41,533 "Because she has a carry permit, that's why we thought she had a gun." 249 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,100 Do you remember that conversation that you had with the police officer? 250 00:11:45,165 --> 00:11:46,967 - Yes, I do, sir. - [Judge Levy] Of course you do. 251 00:11:47,066 --> 00:11:49,867 But that wasn't the first time that the police were contacted, right? 252 00:11:49,934 --> 00:11:51,600 - Uh-hmm. Correct. - [Judge Levy] There was another time 253 00:11:51,667 --> 00:11:53,567 on August 3rd, 2023. 254 00:11:53,633 --> 00:11:57,667 So this is after your granddaughter pays off the loan, 255 00:11:57,767 --> 00:12:00,567 goes to DMV, and gets a duplicate title. 256 00:12:00,633 --> 00:12:04,800 August 3rd, she is the rightful owner of this vehicle, 257 00:12:04,867 --> 00:12:07,667 and she goes where? To the police station? 258 00:12:07,734 --> 00:12:09,500 - Correct. - [Judge Levy] What'd you tell the police? 259 00:12:09,567 --> 00:12:12,166 I told them that Margaret was in possession of a vehicle 260 00:12:12,233 --> 00:12:14,066 that was titled into my name 261 00:12:14,133 --> 00:12:16,300 and I wanted to report it stolen. 262 00:12:16,367 --> 00:12:18,934 The officer did go to Margaret's house, 263 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,834 um, and questioned Margaret about where the vehicle is. 264 00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:25,567 Margaret then stated that it was in the shop, 265 00:12:25,633 --> 00:12:30,166 and then he--the officer recommends we, both of us, um, handle it civilly. 266 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:32,867 But that's not all because what the officer said was, 267 00:12:32,967 --> 00:12:35,900 "Officers will further investigate." 268 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,500 And what that means is, 269 00:12:37,567 --> 00:12:38,934 you're gonna go to the police station 270 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,367 and you're gonna remind them about this police report 271 00:12:41,467 --> 00:12:43,200 where they promised to further investigate. 272 00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:45,000 You're also gonna have a court order 273 00:12:45,066 --> 00:12:48,467 that may very well direct the defendant here 274 00:12:48,533 --> 00:12:49,900 to turn that vehicle over to you. 275 00:12:49,967 --> 00:12:52,000 - Do you understand that, ma'am? - Yes, sir. 276 00:12:52,066 --> 00:12:53,567 [Judge Levy] And when that happens, 277 00:12:53,667 --> 00:12:56,033 the mechanic, he's gonna be in possession of stolen property, 278 00:12:56,133 --> 00:12:57,967 and you don't want that for him, do you? 279 00:12:58,033 --> 00:13:00,600 No. And that's why he's not involved in this. 280 00:13:00,667 --> 00:13:03,433 You, ma'am, just made him involved in it. 281 00:13:03,500 --> 00:13:04,633 I have nothing further. 282 00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:07,433 [Judge Acker] I do. There are so many things about this case 283 00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:10,467 that I find outrageous, even despicable. 284 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,867 I think it is despicable 285 00:13:13,433 --> 00:13:17,000 to make a false claim to the police, 286 00:13:17,066 --> 00:13:19,633 potentially putting somebody else in jeopardy. 287 00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:23,033 And then I looked at the record in some of your evidence, 288 00:13:23,133 --> 00:13:25,600 and you're not the only person in your family 289 00:13:25,934 --> 00:13:28,133 who has behaved outrageously. 290 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:29,834 Do you remember those text messages 291 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:32,100 that you sent to your grandmother, Ms. Lindberg? 292 00:13:32,165 --> 00:13:33,200 I do. 293 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:35,133 [Judge Acker] I'm gonna read one of them. 294 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,834 "How does it feel that you killed your own son? 295 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:42,700 Feeding him pills like the psycho you are? 296 00:13:42,767 --> 00:13:45,266 I can't wait 'till you die." 297 00:13:45,333 --> 00:13:47,433 How do you characterize that? 298 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:49,967 It was very out of character for me. 299 00:13:50,033 --> 00:13:52,967 I was hurt, I was grieving, 300 00:13:53,033 --> 00:13:56,033 I was being ignored as if I didn't exist, 301 00:13:56,133 --> 00:13:58,533 and it was just from a place of anger. 302 00:13:58,633 --> 00:14:01,433 I regret it. I mean, I wish I could take it back. 303 00:14:01,533 --> 00:14:05,233 I'm ashamed that I said that, and that's really all I can say. 304 00:14:05,333 --> 00:14:08,200 How did you feel, Ms. Scifo, when you got those messages? 305 00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:10,100 Extremely hurt. 306 00:14:12,767 --> 00:14:16,333 That my granddaughter who I've loved her whole life, 307 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,834 that would turn vicious on me. 308 00:14:20,433 --> 00:14:22,867 [announcer] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 309 00:14:22,934 --> 00:14:25,633 I've faced manipulation, emotional abuse. 310 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:27,734 I don't look at her as a grandmother anymore. 311 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,867 What the officers didn't say was she was extremely intoxicated 312 00:14:31,934 --> 00:14:33,500 and I also feared for my life. 313 00:14:33,567 --> 00:14:35,000 [dramatic musical sting] 314 00:14:36,867 --> 00:14:38,867 [theme music plays] 315 00:14:38,934 --> 00:14:42,266 [announcer] Amber Lindberg is suing her grandmother, Margaret Scifo, 316 00:14:42,367 --> 00:14:44,567 for the return of her deceased father's car. 317 00:14:44,633 --> 00:14:47,734 But stories of their strained family relationship 318 00:14:47,834 --> 00:14:50,100 explain why they're in court. 319 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,934 [Judge Acker] May I ask you, Ms. Lindberg, 320 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,767 how does one end up 321 00:14:53,867 --> 00:14:56,400 in such strange circumstances with their grandmother? 322 00:14:56,467 --> 00:15:00,100 I mean, what gave rise to all of this conflict? 323 00:15:00,166 --> 00:15:03,100 [Amber] Years and years of pent-up rage. 324 00:15:03,166 --> 00:15:06,767 I mean, she can say she's treated me great and that she's loved me, 325 00:15:06,834 --> 00:15:10,100 but I've faced manipulation, emotional abuse 326 00:15:10,166 --> 00:15:12,100 my whole--since my dad passed, 327 00:15:12,166 --> 00:15:14,266 I kept a relationship with her for him. 328 00:15:14,333 --> 00:15:16,767 I don't look at her as a grandmother anymore. 329 00:15:16,834 --> 00:15:18,800 After he passed, I wanted nothing to do with her. 330 00:15:19,166 --> 00:15:22,000 That's why I'm hoping after this, I can just wash my hands of all of it. 331 00:15:22,066 --> 00:15:24,333 [Judge Acker] How do you think your father would feel 332 00:15:24,433 --> 00:15:27,133 about those messages that you sent to his mother? 333 00:15:27,433 --> 00:15:28,734 I'm sure very upset. 334 00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:32,165 [Judge Acker] How do you think your son would feel 335 00:15:32,266 --> 00:15:35,467 about you calling the police on his daughter 336 00:15:35,533 --> 00:15:38,066 over a piece of property that's not yours. 337 00:15:38,133 --> 00:15:42,734 And if they misinterpreted a move, she might be dead. 338 00:15:43,266 --> 00:15:46,667 How would you feel if, in addition to having buried your son, 339 00:15:46,767 --> 00:15:48,100 you were burying your granddaughter? 340 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,467 What the officers didn't say was she was extremely intoxicated, 341 00:15:52,567 --> 00:15:54,133 and I also feared for my life. 342 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,467 She was intoxicated that day and shouting vile things 343 00:15:58,533 --> 00:16:01,633 from the car in the driveway before she left. 344 00:16:01,967 --> 00:16:03,467 - [Judge Acker] Were you intoxicated? - I was not. 345 00:16:04,166 --> 00:16:07,133 I don't have anything further. I wish you both the best of luck. 346 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,066 [Judge DiMango] Okay. Then we're going to retire to deliberate, 347 00:16:09,133 --> 00:16:11,066 the witnesses may resume their seats. 348 00:16:11,166 --> 00:16:12,233 Thank you very much, we'll be back. 349 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:14,166 Court is now in recess. 350 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:17,767 [dramatic musical sting] 351 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:20,800 Well, she's kinda raised the grandma defense, 352 00:16:20,867 --> 00:16:23,367 which is, "just because I want the car." 353 00:16:23,433 --> 00:16:26,867 The only thing that's missing here is her stomping her feet like a five-year-old 354 00:16:26,967 --> 00:16:29,400 because she has no legal entitlement to it. 355 00:16:29,467 --> 00:16:33,200 And the plaintiff paid off the lien. She's entitled to that car. 356 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:35,567 However, if we award her the car, 357 00:16:35,667 --> 00:16:39,767 I think we should verify that it is with whom the defendant says it's with 358 00:16:39,834 --> 00:16:42,200 by either reaching out, making a phone call. 359 00:16:42,266 --> 00:16:43,333 I don't know how you will feel about that. 360 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,700 But I don't want you to just leave it in the defendant's position. 361 00:16:46,767 --> 00:16:48,700 I think that we cut an order, 362 00:16:48,767 --> 00:16:52,967 the defendant, the grandmother, if she still refuses to comply, 363 00:16:53,033 --> 00:16:55,767 then that's when things are gonna go real sideways 364 00:16:55,867 --> 00:16:59,200 for the entire family, not the plaintiff. 365 00:16:59,266 --> 00:17:03,100 It's also important to note that in several states like Wisconsin, 366 00:17:03,166 --> 00:17:07,867 someone who is in the decedent's position could have signed 367 00:17:07,934 --> 00:17:10,165 over an affidavit, title, 368 00:17:10,233 --> 00:17:12,333 and included his mom on the title 369 00:17:12,433 --> 00:17:17,000 so that when he did pass, the vehicle would have gone straight to his mother. 370 00:17:17,066 --> 00:17:21,433 That is transfer on death registration of vehicles, 371 00:17:21,532 --> 00:17:23,834 Wisconsin and about 20 other states have them. 372 00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:26,233 And quite frankly, we didn't get into it out there 373 00:17:26,333 --> 00:17:28,967 but it was no surprise when the plaintiff's dad died. 374 00:17:29,033 --> 00:17:30,934 He had been sick for a very long time. 375 00:17:31,033 --> 00:17:32,967 It was sad, but it was not unexpected. 376 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:35,100 If that were done, we wouldn't be here. 377 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,000 That's right. And I'm also, to your point, Patricia, 378 00:17:39,066 --> 00:17:42,600 concerned about simply an order returning the car. 379 00:17:43,233 --> 00:17:45,900 Uh, there's a lot we don't know. I'm gonna propose this. 380 00:17:45,967 --> 00:17:48,133 I'd love to hear both of your thoughts on it, 381 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,667 and it follows from something that the plaintiff said on the record. 382 00:17:51,734 --> 00:17:53,000 - Why don't we just give her... - [Judge DiMango] Give her... 383 00:17:53,066 --> 00:17:54,066 - ... a monetary award? - [Judge DiMango] Yeah. 384 00:17:54,133 --> 00:17:56,200 We can give her the option and point out the downside, 385 00:17:56,266 --> 00:17:58,934 because my other thing, and I was writing this down as I was listening, 386 00:17:59,033 --> 00:18:01,800 was that we don't know what kind of condition the car is in either. 387 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:05,533 It could be not in the same condition that the plaintiff believes it was in, 388 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,033 expecting that she's going to get it back in that same condition. 389 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:09,734 - And I'm--and the other--uh, yeah. - So I think that the option... 390 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,934 And I'm inclined to that 391 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,100 because I think it is one thing that we can do 392 00:18:15,166 --> 00:18:17,800 to sort of short circuit the judicial drama 393 00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:20,066 to which this family seems to be prone. 394 00:18:20,133 --> 00:18:21,934 I'd simply give her monetary value. 395 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,867 [Judge DiMango] Which is $6,712. 396 00:18:24,934 --> 00:18:27,400 I guess she wants something, but she'd prefer the car. 397 00:18:27,467 --> 00:18:30,100 So I'm ready to do whatever she says actually, 398 00:18:30,166 --> 00:18:31,800 - if you guys are. - All right. I am. 399 00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:32,900 - [Judge DiMango] Okay. Very good then. - [Judge Levy] I agree. 400 00:18:32,967 --> 00:18:34,600 So we're unanimous. Thank you. 401 00:18:36,233 --> 00:18:39,300 [dramatic musical sting] 402 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,934 Court is now in session. 403 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,533 Parties are reminded you are still under oath. 404 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,300 [Judge DiMango] Thank you, Cassandra. 405 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,100 Actions have consequences. 406 00:18:47,166 --> 00:18:52,266 When you put into a play a phone call to the police department, 407 00:18:52,333 --> 00:18:55,934 that action has a snowballing effect 408 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,433 of consequences you're not even thinking about 409 00:18:58,500 --> 00:18:59,500 when you make the call. 410 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,734 Because when you do things with tunnel vision, 411 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,133 you don't see what goes beyond it, all from emotion. 412 00:19:06,233 --> 00:19:08,667 How many times have you seen on the news, 413 00:19:08,767 --> 00:19:12,300 "All I was doing was reaching for my cell phone," 414 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,800 which results in police who are under high stress, 415 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:17,834 pulling a gun and shooting. 416 00:19:17,934 --> 00:19:20,533 And ma'am, she has a legal right to that car. 417 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,800 However, we asked if whether or not you wanted the vehicle 418 00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:27,867 or would accept a monetary award instead. 419 00:19:27,934 --> 00:19:28,967 Do you have a feeling about that? 420 00:19:29,066 --> 00:19:32,967 Um, I mean, if getting the vehicle isn't possible, 421 00:19:33,066 --> 00:19:35,800 then I would accept money. 422 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:36,900 [Judge DiMango] I just wanna point out, 423 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,066 you're not really sure the condition the vehicle is in at this point. 424 00:19:40,133 --> 00:19:42,266 How long has it been with the mechanic, ma'am? 425 00:19:42,333 --> 00:19:43,400 Since he died? Since... 426 00:19:43,467 --> 00:19:45,667 - No, since May. - [Judge DiMango] Since May? 427 00:19:45,767 --> 00:19:46,967 You only brought it up for tune-up, you said? 428 00:19:47,066 --> 00:19:48,900 There was no damage, correct? 429 00:19:49,467 --> 00:19:52,600 And whatever else he found to be wrong with it, correct. 430 00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:53,834 [Judge DiMango] No, that's not what you said. 431 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:54,767 What about the body? 432 00:19:54,834 --> 00:19:56,567 What about the vehicle's body, was it in shape? 433 00:19:56,934 --> 00:19:57,967 - No. - There was just a... 434 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,133 - I'm sorry. - No. 435 00:20:00,233 --> 00:20:01,633 [Judge DiMango] Step up if you're gonna speak. 436 00:20:02,333 --> 00:20:04,000 What was wrong with the body of the vehicle? 437 00:20:04,734 --> 00:20:06,100 [Brett] For as stubborn as my brother was, 438 00:20:06,166 --> 00:20:08,734 even under the health conditions that he had, 439 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,066 he still liked to drive and do what he wanted to do... 440 00:20:11,133 --> 00:20:13,266 - What is the damage to the car? - ... and he wanted to go... 441 00:20:14,066 --> 00:20:15,333 [Brett] There was damage to the front end. 442 00:20:15,433 --> 00:20:18,767 I don't know what he had bumped into or what had bumped into him. 443 00:20:18,834 --> 00:20:20,100 This is why it went 444 00:20:20,166 --> 00:20:22,934 because it affected the left front suspension as well. 445 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,467 The battery, I had taken from one of my vehicles to put into that car 446 00:20:26,567 --> 00:20:28,400 - just so it could get running. - [Judge DiMango] So then-- 447 00:20:28,467 --> 00:20:31,967 so now you are telling us that this is the great car that your mother wanted? 448 00:20:32,066 --> 00:20:34,734 Somebody here is lying. All right, have a seat. 449 00:20:35,767 --> 00:20:37,633 - We're just gonna give you the money. - [Amber] Okay. 450 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:39,867 [Judge DiMango] $6,712, 451 00:20:39,934 --> 00:20:43,500 which is the Kelley Blue Book value of this vehicle. 452 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,834 The jurisdictional maximum in your jurisdiction is $5,000, 453 00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:49,467 so we're gonna have to cap it at that 454 00:20:49,567 --> 00:20:50,834 - for the car. - Thank you. 455 00:20:50,934 --> 00:20:53,533 That's the verdict of the court, judgment in favor of the plaintiff. 456 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:54,633 [gavel bangs] 457 00:20:54,734 --> 00:20:57,967 [Cassandra] This case have concluded. All parties are excused. 458 00:20:58,033 --> 00:21:00,500 [theme music plays] 459 00:21:02,333 --> 00:21:05,333 She is a textbook narcissist. 460 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,033 It just rips my heart out. It really does. 461 00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:11,700 She uses her age and her looks to manipulate people 462 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:13,200 into thinking she's innocent. 463 00:21:13,266 --> 00:21:15,967 I don't understand what she's even talking about 464 00:21:16,033 --> 00:21:18,133 with the manipulation and things of that nature. 465 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,667 It was around four squad cars that were there 466 00:21:20,734 --> 00:21:23,000 and they just yelled over their loudspeaker 467 00:21:23,066 --> 00:21:24,300 to get out with our hands out. 468 00:21:24,367 --> 00:21:26,867 Uh, the relationship is too fractured. 469 00:21:26,934 --> 00:21:28,133 I want nothing to do with her. 470 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,467 I think it's ridiculous. 471 00:21:29,533 --> 00:21:31,033 You can't pick your family. 472 00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,700 [announcer] Have you been scammed, cheated, or swindled? 473 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 474 00:21:37,867 --> 00:21:39,867 Find us on social media. 475 00:21:39,934 --> 00:21:42,867 ["Ride of the Valkyries" plays]