You purchased a three-month-old puppy
-and she died. -Yes.
[narrator] Today on Tribunal Justice...
I called her and I said there's something terribly wrong with this puppy.
I didn't sell her a sick dog.
Why she was going downhill was 'cause she was not eating.
They killed my dog.
Would you please be quiet?
[narrator] This case was filed in Spokane Valley, Washington.
Your Honor, this is case number 1072 on the calendar
in the matter of Lance v. Holmes.
Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated.
-[Levy] Thank you, Byrd. -Mm-hm.
Ms. Lance, you purchased a three-month-old puppy
from the defendant.
The day after you purchased the puppy, you noticed that she was off.
She was a little lethargic.
You contacted the defendant who told you
-to give the puppy some sweet syrup... -Yes.
...and that she should bounce back, which you did.
-Yes. -And that according to your complaint,
the puppy seemed to have a little more energy,
but then the next morning,
the puppy wouldn't wake up.
You ended up taking the puppy immediately to the emergency room
where they did some tests and she died.
-Is that correct? -Yes.
You are suing the defendant for $5,000.
You're suing her for vet bills for $1,860
and for your pain and suffering for $3,140.
Your $1,200 that you had spent to purchase the puppy from the defendant,
she had already reimbursed to you,
-is that right? All right. -Yes.
[Levy] Ms. Holmes, according to your answer,
you've been breeding these type of dogs for 40 years.
-Yes, sir. -That you placed an ad
to sell this one dog that you eventually sold to the plaintiff,
which was a Yorkie Maltese puppy.
-Correct? -Yes.
And that the advertisement indicated that the puppy
-was up to date on shots and records. -Yes.
And you believe that the puppy died
not because she was sick in your care,
but rather something that the plaintiff had done
for the short period of time she had the puppy?
-Yes. May I speak further on that? -Sure, please.
So when you have these little, tiny teacup puppies,
it's important for them to have the availability
of having food always on the floor for them.
And I was very specific about how to tend to her.
So that's where I feel that,
you know, she had said in one of the remarks that,
"Oh, well, maybe three times isn't enough. Maybe four times."
But I had specifically said all the time, twenty-four-seven
for the food to be on the floor.
Okay, and I believe that when you dropped the puppy off
-that she was small. -She was very small, yes.
So Ms. Lance, what I want to do is, I have seen a picture of the puppy
and I would like to put it up, please on the monitor
so we can all see what she looks like.
-That puppy on the left. -[Holmes] Yes.
-Is that right? -My little baby girl, right there.
-Yes, Ms. Lance. -Yes.
And what did you name the puppy when you got her?
-Snuggles. -Snuggles.
And did you take that picture of Snuggles, or was that a picture Ms. Holmes took?
Ms. Holmes took that one.
Okay, so Ms. Holmes, can you tell me
approximately the date that that photograph was taken on the left,
as well as the one on the right.
So the one on the left was taken approximately about eight weeks old,
and the picture right next to that on the right,
that was closer to the day before
that I had brought her to Ms. Candice Lance.
We also have a little video showing the day before
when I was videotaping the puppy for Candice
'cause Candice wasn't able to come into the shop, she had hurt her ankle,
and in the video it even states, "Oh, there's the baby girl in the corner."
You know what? Let's put that video up, please,
so we all know what we're talking about.
[Holmes on video] What you guys doing?
[Holmes] So here she comes, right over on the left.
Right there in the corner.
[Holmes on video] Oh, oh, uh...
Oh, oh, oh...
[Levy] So can we stop the video now?
[Holmes] She's over there attacking another puppy.
[Levy] I just circled, is that--
Yes, not the black but the one right on top...
-Right, the one on top, the brown one. -She's just getting ready to be fussy
-with the other puppy. -Okay, can we continue the video, please?
[Holmes on video] Oh, there he is.
-[Levy] There she is. -There she is.
-Is that right? -That's it.
-You say that's the day before? -That's the day before.
Okay.
[Holmes on video] That little one in the corner...
So, Ms. Lance, you purchased the puppy on September 14th.
Yes, that evening.
Explain to me the process. How was it that you found the puppy,
the communications if any you had with the defendant
prior to picking the puppy up.
What experience you had caring for dogs of this size.
I found the puppy by a picture in the paper,
and knew at first sight that I wanted her.
-She was a cutie pie. -And as far as that video,
I've never seen it.
So how long prior to September 14th was it
that you initially contacted the defendant to purchase her,
-or was it all the same day? -It was all the same day
and I did tell her that I had broke my ankle.
It was my right ankle, so I couldn't drive.
So are you testifying to us today
that the first time you saw that video that we just saw
was today, that you've never seen that before?
-Yes, that's correct. -Okay.
So you saw the advertisement in the paper. You fell in love immediately.
You contacted the phone number, which was the defendant's phone number.
What did you say to her? What did she say to you?
I told her I would take the puppy and, uh, if she could deliver it.
She said yes, she'd be glad to deliver it.
[Levy] And how much was the puppy?
Twelve hundred dollars.
So you paid her the money when she dropped the puppy off.
Did she give you any specific instructions with respect to the puppy?
Yes, I have the written instructions in my paperwork.
Okay, so can you tell me what it was she said to you?
Yeah, she said to feed the puppy
-three times a day. -Did you follow the instructions?
-You left food out for her. -Yes.
So these type of dogs, correct me if I'm wrong, Ms. Holmes,
but you can leave the food out for these dogs
and they're not going to gobble it all up like my like my golden retrievers do.
-You leave food out and it's gone. -[Holmes] Right.
-You put more food in, it's gone. -[Holmes] No, they eat
constantly throughout the day 'cause they're little and they can't keep
that sugar level in their body.
And she's feeding her three times a day. She's not leaving it on the floor.
-You heard her say, three times a day. -So is that correct?
You were feeding her three times a day, but weren't leaving it out on the floor?
-That's what she told me to do. -[Levy] Okay.
When Snuggles came to your home on the 14th,
-did she appear up and active and engaged? -[Lance] Yes.
-Yes. -And when was it that you first realized
that she was, as you termed, listless?
The next morning, about 11:00, and I called her and I said, "Virginia,
there's something terribly wrong with this puppy,
she's listless," and she said, "She probably has low blood sugar.
Give her some sweet syrup on your thumb
and let her lick it off and call me back."
Okay, hold on one second, so, Ms. Holmes, is that correct?
-Yes, sir. -[Levy] And you do and what happens?
She perked up
and I was real pleased, but I was concerned about her blood sugar then.
Okay, and it seems to me, though, Ms. Holmes,
that you pretty much nailed what the issue was
-right away, from hearing... -Yes.
...just a very brief description from the plaintiff
about what the problem was, that it was low blood sugar.
-Yes. -Right. And you know
prior to coming in here today, that it's the plaintiff's position
that you sold her, whether you knew it or not,
-you sold her a sick dog. -Yes.
So my question to you is what, if any, medical treatments,
if any, vet appointments,
-did Snuggles... -Mm-hm.
...go to, prior to being sold to the plaintiff.
So she's born of a litter of one, correct?
-She's born of a litter of one, yes. -Okay.
And when she's born, is there a vet that you take her to?
-Not normally, no. -[Levy] No.
No, there's no need for that.
-Okay so-- -Unless the puppy is sick.
-Okay, so... -So, therefore, sir, I give my puppies
all of their shots, except for the rabies 'cause I can't give them the rabies shot.
So how much did Snuggle weigh when she was born?
She weighed about four...
She was very tiny.
-Okay, so, so, here's my question. -[Holmes] Yes.
You're trying to give me an answer... -Yes.
...but you don't wanna give me an answer
-because you really don't know, correct? -Right.
And so if were to ask you how much she weighed at birth,
how much she weighed after a month, two months
and how much she weighed the day that she was delivered on September 14th,
-you would have no records to support... -No.
-...any number whatsoever. -No.
You do know however that when the plaintiff took her to the vet,
the vet weighed her and she was eight ounces.
-Uh-huh. -Is that very small for the dog?
That's a normal size, but you have to--
A normal size for a three-month old teacup Yorkie?
Yes, they're very tiny teacups, yes, sir.
Now let's keep in mind why she was going downhill
was because she was not eating.
So those little critters lose weight really, really, really fast
in just the fluid weight.
-Yes, she could lose... -Okay, so my last question
to you then, is gonna be, one of the exhibits that you provided us with
was an exhibit, Exhibit 4 in your packet,
-regarding symptoms of hypoglycemia. -[Holmes] Yes.
When was it that you produced this?
Did you provide this document at any time to the plaintiff,
or did you just provide this to us?
No, I provided it to the plaintiff, and I provide it to every puppy that leaves.
Okay, stop. I'm looking at the plaintiff now. Is that correct?
Do you recall getting a document from the defendant
-listing the symptoms of hypoglycemia? -No, Your Honor.
-Okay, thank you.
I have no further questions. Judge Acker?
Sadly, I am all too familiar with this situation.
-I had a teacup Maltese... -Mm-hm.
...and she lived a long time
-but it was after I got her over the hump. -[Holmes] Mm-hm.
I bought her. When I bought her, I should say,
the seller represented that she was three months old.
-Mm-hm. -We had a strong suspicion
that because it was a very valuable puppy,
that the seller may have been selling them a little early.
'Cause my little girl, I mean, it was a struggle to keep her alive,
and it wasn't even a situation where I could leave food around
because she wouldn't eat it. I think she just wanted her mom.
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
Is there any way that a buyer of a puppy
can verify with you when the puppy was born,
what the puppy weighed at birth?
-Anything like that? -No.
Why don't you keep those sorts of records?
[narrator] Candace Lance is suing dog seller Virginia Holmes
for vet bills and pain and suffering,
after the puppy she purchased from Virginia died days later.
Virginia claims Candace didn't feed the puppy properly.
So it is your representation that you sold Snuggles
-when she was twelve weeks old. -Twelve weeks old.
Do you have any verification system?
Is there any way that a buyer of a puppy can verify with you
when the puppy was born, what the puppy weighed at birth?
-Anything like that? -No.
Why don't you keep those sorts of records?
I probably should from here on out now,
but I don't feel that that's really important
because I personally are with my puppies from the time they're born
and I see them advance and I see them grow and get healthy.
-But you don't have any records... -No, I don't have any records.
...and you don't have any records that you can show a buyer
that would indicate that the puppy
was born on X date, the puppy went to a vet checkup on Y date.
-You have nothing like that? -No.
So I don't know what you did
and you aren't in a position to prove it because you don't have anything.
It's not her job to prove it, Ms. Lance,
it's your burden to demonstrate that she's responsible for your injuries.
So I said all of that to say, first off,
these are very, very fragile animals when they're that young.
-We should also point out... -Yes, ma'am.
...that you had Snuggles for three days.
When Snuggles passed away, Ms. Holmes reimbursed you for the cost.
But you're now seeking more.
You want your vet bills and you want to be compensated for pain and suffering.
Your burden in this case is to demonstrate
that her wrongdoing, which one, you have to prove,
is responsible for your damages. The second thing you have to prove.
I don't know, from my perspective,
that you have carried your burden of demonstrating that she's responsible.
-So, what is your evidence... -Yes, ma'am.
...that she knew that Snuggles was sick?
Well, when I told her that she was very listless,
she said, "Well, it's low blood sugar, you need to give her some honey."
And I says, "Well, then she's been like this before."
And she says, "Yes, but she'll snap right out of it
-if you give her some honey." -[whispers] No...
So I gave her the honey and she did snap out of it for a while.
When she gave me the-- the dog food, she said that it was grain-free
and that that was very important for her to have.
And I didn't change the dog food, but when I went to the vet,
they said that it's very important for them to have grain, not grain-free,
and that they were dying from heart failure.
[Acker] So are you holding her responsible
for giving you bad instructions
-about Snuggles' care? -Absolutely.
So it sounds like your complaint's really premised on two things.
One, you say she gave you bad instructions regarding the care of the dog.
Secondly, you've also suggested that she knew that Snuggles was sick
and I don't see any evidence of that knowledge.
Now, her absence of evidence,
one might be able to infer something from that,
but I'm not prepared to do that.
I happen to know
that these dogs won't necessarily eat if you just leave stuff around.
-So we'll have to consider that. -Yes, ma'am.
Thank you both. Judge DiMango?
All right, can I see the video one more time, please?
If you can, Judge Levy, just mark off where Snuggles is
for us so I can kind of see.
[Holmes] Here comes Snuggles, right there on the left in the corner.
The red one with the white dobby on top of the head.
-[Holmes] Right-- Right there. -[DiMango] The one in the middle...
-[DiMango] I see him. Okay. -[Holmes] Right there.
[Holmes] If I had a poker, I'd show--
-[Lance] Your Honor. -Okay.
-[Levy] Is that it? -[DiMango] I believe that's it.
[DiMango] To be honest with you when I see this,
I don't see Snuggles in that litter or that group
as active as the other puppies.
I see her kind of moving around, but mostly because she seems to be
-being pushed around. -Mm-hm.
There's a couple of things that bother me.
-[Holmes] Okay. -One. When you were asked by Judge Levy,
you knew right away when she called that the sugar was low.
That tells me you knew before that the sugar was low.
She never had a low sugar before.
So then how did you know--? How did you know immediately then?
-The remedy-- -Because I've been doing it for 40 years.
-I know-- Okay. -I need you to stop.
The remedy here was to immediately give the puppy sugar.
Yes, and for her to feed it more. I said you have to feed it more.
-You have to do the soft food-- -I'm gonna stop you there
-because now I'm gonna go to you. -[Holmes] Yes.
I have looked at the instructions that she gave you and she does say,
she says leave out dry food during the day
and use a tablespoon, I guess, of wet food
-three times a day. -Three times a day, that's what I did.
But she's not saying only feed the puppy three times a day,
what she's saying is leave out all the food
-which is what she's testified doing here. -And that's what I did.
-Did you do that? -Yes, ma'am, I did.
Now, the other issue I have is grain-free.
Feeding a puppy, grain-free food
is what makes their glucose go down.
So if you're treating a puppy whose glucose is low,
with grain-free foods,
then you're not helping that puppy's sugar level become equalized.
So in fact what she was doing based on your directions,
was really hindering the puppy's sugar production rather than helping it.
Yes, but the soft food is what I was pushing.
See, I think what happens is
-people involved in this business... -Mm-hm.
tend to become overconfident in their ability
to diagnose, treat and cure illnesses when they are not vets.
[narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice.
I'm trying to look at this as objectively as I can.
Whether or not that puppy was known to you to have some problems.
I know you keep shaking your head
and you can shake your head till your ears fall off.
That's not going to make me change my opinion unless I get the right answers.
I think it was laudable that you returned the money to her for the dog.
I think that's nice, but now the other two issues here,
what you're suing for, are really more important,
and that is two-fold.
One, your alleged post-traumatic stress
and the need to have more than $3,000 in pain and suffering
for a puppy that you had three days.
I fell in love with that puppy--
I get it but people fall in love with people in three days
and they don't become so traumatized.
The second thing is the vet bills.
I would feel that unless I could somehow attribute knowledge
to the defendant that she gave you a puppy that she knew was ill,
or suffering from some affliction,
that you bought a puppy and you brought the puppy to a vet
and that would be perhaps your expense.
But the burden-- Again, the burden is yours to show that she knew,
and I'm trying to look at this as objectively as I can from both ends.
Whether or not that puppy was known to you to have some problems--
I know you keep shaking your head
and you can shake your head till your ears fall off,
that's not going to make me change my opinion unless I get the right answers.
-Yes. -So, you know, I'm still not comfortable
that you did not know when you gave her the puppy
that there were some issues with regard to at least her blood sugar.
The diagnosis, according to what I see here,
was that she had tumors on her spleen and tumor on her liver.
-Is this the diagnosis? -I have this paper-- This is from the vet
that took care of her.
-The diagnosis as to what was wrong... -Everything.
...because ultimately you say
that a needle was inserted into the puppy's heart.
Yes, they couldn't-- She was so small that they couldn't get a vein
and so they put a heart cath in her to draw the blood.
-They killed my dog. Yes. -Doctor, would you please be quiet?
Now, I don't know that, that's hearsay.
If it's in that document, we're going to look at it
-and we're gonna see. -[Lance] They have it in here.
So you'll have to pass that up, Cassandra, please, thank you.
-And... -Thank you.
[Lance] And she died of heart failure.
-Now, the other thing that I had. -[Holmes] I wonder why?
So one other thing that goes to your claim for emotional distress,
you have here that you've applied for a emotional...
Emotional support animal and service animal.
Now did you ever go for any medical follow-up that you needed one?
Yes, I had gone from having sleep pattern
from three hours to four hours a night,
and the puppy slept with me for two nights. I slept right through.
Now, I have a puppy now and the same thing is true.
That might be the answer to my problems then, thank you Ms. Lance.
-[Levy] If I could, Ms. Holmes. -Yes.
How long had you been feeding the puppy grain-free food?
They can only start eating the hard food until they're like,
maybe about seven, eight weeks
because tiny babies have tiny teeth.
No, I get that. I get tiny babies have tiny teeth. So a full third
of the puppy's life, you had been feeding her grain-free food, correct?
Off and on, yeah.
And just so I'm clear, in the document that you provided to us on hypoglycemia,
you would concede that the causes of hypoglycemia in dogs
include liver failure and liver cancer, correct?
There's no way that puppy could have had a tumor.
They could not have even seen that tumor on that eight-pound puppy.
[Levy] Are you just as sure of that testimony
that it was impossible for this vet to know
that the puppy had a tumor, as you were about everything else you told us today?
-Yes. -You know what,
-I've no further questions. Okay. -Thank you.
[DiMango] And at this point, then, we're going to retire to deliberate.
-Thank you all. -[Byrd] Court now stands in recess.
Parties are excused.
You know, putting aside for a moment how sad the case is
and how cute that puppy was,
and the fact that there was a lot of the testimony coming from the defendant
that made me extremely uncomfortable.
The problem is, I would love nothing more than to give the plaintiff
the vet bills that she's asking for--
Forget about the pain and suffering, but I'd love to give her the vet bills.
But unfortunately, without having experts come in and testify
that the puppy could not have become so sick in the three days
and that what the actual diagnosis was
because notwithstanding the plaintiff's providing us
with the vet bills and the vet records,
there's nothing in there that mentions tumors,
and that's what I was banking on.
But it's not there and what she was told by the vet is hearsay.
She already gave back the $1200. The defendant did,
and I believe that that's the extent of the damages and that's been paid,
so I'm inclined to dismiss the case.
I felt like the more the defendant said,
the less credible I found her and the more troublesome I found her position.
I think it's suspicious
that there are no records of when the dog was born,
how much the dog weighed when the dog was born.
So I've got all sorts of problems there,
but it was the plaintiff's burden to come to court
and close those dots.
And as sad as I think it is, as sad as I think she is,
she hasn't done it to my satisfaction. I would dismiss.
I'm clear on dismissing the pain and suffering, but the bottom line is
I think that the plaintiff might have had an issue getting her burden in,
but I think the defendant's answers and behavior
might have put the plaintiff over that threshold.
I'm torn between saying, "Look, you bought the puppy,
you had the puppy three days, you brought it to the doctor,
you're out of luck, but on the other hand,
I kind of feel like this defendant knew
and I think she kind of conveyed that to us,
so I would not be uncomfortable giving the plaintiff the vet bills.
From reading over the complaint, the answer,
and going through the documents that were provided to us, the evidence,
I would love to do it, and I would be the last person
to buy a dog from this defendant.
-I think-- I think she's shady. -It's a preponder...
Yeah, and it's a preponderance, you know sometimes it's hard to say
you know, she's just tipped the scale slightly.
I'm not comfortable with the defendant,
but for me, that doesn't mean that the plaintiff has met her burden.
-So I will dissent. -[Levy] Okay.
-We have a very sad case. -We have a split decision,
I'll make it clear.
Court is back in session. I remind parties, you're still under oath.
-[Levy] Thank you, Byrd. -Mm-hm.
This is where we stand after our deliberations.
We are unanimous that your request, Ms. Lance,
for $3,140 in pain and suffering,
although clearly, you suffered pain
and you did suffer emotional distress as a result of the loss of the puppy.
It doesn't rise to the level of what the law requires in order to--
To have that as a successful claim,
so unanimously, that aspect of your suit is dismissed.
-Yes, Your Honor. -With respect to the $1,860 in vet bills,
we are split.
Judge DiMango, based upon all that she heard from you, from the defendant,
the fact that the defendant did not have and provide to you at the sale,
with any medical history whatsoever of the dog,
taken in conjunction with the fact that she was specifically instructing you
to give her grain-free food
indicated to her that the defendant knew she was selling you a sick dog.
On the other hand, unfortunately for you, Judge Acker and I,
while we-- And Judge Acker said it in the back,
is extremely suspicious of the way in which the defendant sold you this dog.
We get a lot of dog-breeding cases in this court
and we haven't seen one in which the breeder,
the responsible, respectful, reliable breeder
doesn't provide records of when the puppy is born,
how much the puppy weighed.
All legitimate breeders do it.
Why she didn't. Suspicious.
But what we don't have, and what Judge Acker and I couldn't get over
was the fact that you still have to be able to prove, besides circumstantially,
that the defendant knew she was selling you a damaged puppy.
And without an expert coming in here to say that,
you just don't meet your burden.
It doesn't mean that it wasn't extremely sad, it sure was,
but you have another puppy now.
-The puppy's healthy? -Yes.
-Puppy's giving you comfort and support? -Yes, she is.
The defendant did the right thing by giving you back to $1,200 you spent,
but it's the verdict of the court that you are not going to get back
those vet bills and we just wish you and your new puppy
nothing but happiness in the years to come.
-[Lance] Thank you. -Thank you.
[Byrd] This case is now concluded
Parties are excused. You may step out.
I respect the opinion of three judges.
I feel good about this.
I do believe she knew the puppy was very sick.
I did not sell her a sick puppy. The puppy was very healthy.
Go to a vet like I did with this other one.
I really wish she would have just brought the puppy back to me
and we wouldn't been here.
Get a vet's opinion.
I'm happy it's over.
[narrator] Does someone owe you money?
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