1 00:00:00,333 --> 00:00:02,033 I think this is all an insurance scam. 2 00:00:02,100 --> 00:00:04,166 [Narrator] Today on Tribunal Justice . 3 00:00:04,233 --> 00:00:06,767 It seems funny to me. Something doesn't feel right. 4 00:00:06,834 --> 00:00:09,500 He basically says to you, "We have still not been paid." 5 00:00:09,567 --> 00:00:13,166 We didn't hire him to reroof the motor home. 6 00:00:13,266 --> 00:00:14,900 How much did the insurance company give you? 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,400 - I honestly do not know because- - How dumb do you think we are? 8 00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:20,500 You kept it. 9 00:00:22,900 --> 00:00:26,934 [theme music plays] 10 00:00:44,233 --> 00:00:47,200 [Narrator] This case was filed in Pine City, Minnesota. 11 00:00:47,433 --> 00:00:50,533 Your Honor, this case number 1096 on the calendar in the matter 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,233 of Baker versus Hansen. 13 00:00:52,300 --> 00:00:54,767 Parties have been sworn in. You may be seated. 14 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:57,000 - Thank you, Byrd. - [Byrd] You're welcome, Judge. 15 00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:58,433 - Mr. Baker? - Yes sir. 16 00:00:58,700 --> 00:01:04,333 You own and operate, uh, Baker RV Repair in Pine City, uh, Minnesota. 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,000 - I do. - And in May of 2022, 18 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:10,233 according to your complaint, you were hired by the defendant 19 00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:15,367 to repair a leaking roof of her 2008 Winnebago Motor Home. 20 00:01:15,567 --> 00:01:20,533 You went to the defendant's home to inspect the RV and you saw a hole 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,265 in the roof that caused water to leak through a seam. 22 00:01:23,367 --> 00:01:24,600 - Is that right? - Yes, Your Honor. 23 00:01:24,934 --> 00:01:27,133 How long have you been in the RV repair business? 24 00:01:27,367 --> 00:01:29,200 Uh, I've repaired 'em for 20 years. 25 00:01:29,433 --> 00:01:30,700 That wouldn't be unusual, would it? 26 00:01:30,767 --> 00:01:34,133 To have leaking issues on a 2008 motor home? 27 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,265 - It's quite typical. - Right. Common, right? 28 00:01:36,333 --> 00:01:37,200 Common. 29 00:01:37,265 --> 00:01:40,567 That's what you told the defendant's husband who is not here today. 30 00:01:40,633 --> 00:01:41,700 - Is that correct? - Correct. 31 00:01:41,767 --> 00:01:46,033 - Why not? - Uh, he couldn't get away to come in. 32 00:01:46,233 --> 00:01:47,900 - He couldn't get away to come in? - Yes. 33 00:01:47,967 --> 00:01:49,834 Okay, because I'm gonna tell you right now, 34 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:51,567 I think this is all an insurance scam. 35 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,700 We didn't scam the insurance company. 36 00:01:54,767 --> 00:01:55,967 - Let's find out. - Okay. 37 00:01:56,633 --> 00:02:01,800 The defendant's husband who's not here, brought the RV to the shop. 38 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,333 You fixed all the minor repairs, including the seams, 39 00:02:05,467 --> 00:02:07,066 and got to work on the roof. 40 00:02:07,467 --> 00:02:09,866 And you claim to have noticed some hail damage. 41 00:02:10,333 --> 00:02:12,734 Yes, the roof was so dirty 42 00:02:13,033 --> 00:02:15,333 'cause it hadn't been cleaned probably forever. 43 00:02:15,767 --> 00:02:19,900 And it was so dirty you couldn't, uh, visually see the hail damage. 44 00:02:20,633 --> 00:02:22,333 Yes, ma'am. You have something to say. Who are you? 45 00:02:22,567 --> 00:02:23,633 - Um- - Come on up. 46 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:24,900 I'm Gloria Baker. 47 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:27,867 - I am witness to Ralph Baker. - [Levy] Yep. 48 00:02:27,966 --> 00:02:29,200 And the job that he did. 49 00:02:29,633 --> 00:02:32,100 Um, he did not power wash the roof. 50 00:02:32,233 --> 00:02:34,033 He actually hand washed it 51 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:37,000 because he was afraid to drive water into the seams. 52 00:02:37,066 --> 00:02:38,133 Yeah, 'cause that that was gonna- 53 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,400 That would cause more leaking and damage inside. 54 00:02:40,466 --> 00:02:41,500 So he got up there, 55 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,500 and scrubbed it on his hands and knees for many, many hours. 56 00:02:45,767 --> 00:02:47,300 Okay. Thank you for that. 57 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,133 - Is this your wife over here? - [Baker] Yes, it is. 58 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:51,600 Uh, it's good to keep her. It's good to keep her around. 59 00:02:51,667 --> 00:02:54,166 Yeah, she keeps me on the straight and narrow. 60 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,767 But I did see where Mr. Hansen had been up there. 61 00:02:57,834 --> 00:02:59,767 And there was no rhyme or reason. 62 00:02:59,834 --> 00:03:01,900 He didn't sit there and try and clean everything. 63 00:03:01,967 --> 00:03:05,367 He just went some here and some over there, some back there. 64 00:03:05,734 --> 00:03:06,600 Understood. 65 00:03:06,667 --> 00:03:10,066 So you noticed this hail damage and you contacted the defendant's husband? 66 00:03:10,133 --> 00:03:11,900 - Correct. - And what, if anything, did he say? 67 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,900 Uh, we talked about a possible insurance claim. 68 00:03:16,233 --> 00:03:19,533 He said he had insurance. He said, go ahead and file the claim. 69 00:03:19,966 --> 00:03:22,567 And here's the information of my agent. 70 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,200 And so then I put together an estimate. 71 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:30,200 And so you've supplied us with an email dated May 20th, 2022. 72 00:03:30,900 --> 00:03:32,266 - Correct. - You say, "Mr. Baker, 73 00:03:32,333 --> 00:03:38,333 that the insurance company approved the $8,414 estimate to redo the roof." 74 00:03:38,633 --> 00:03:39,867 I did get approval to... 75 00:03:40,033 --> 00:03:42,166 You got approval. And you knew that, ma'am. Right? 76 00:03:42,834 --> 00:03:43,700 He never... 77 00:03:43,834 --> 00:03:48,400 He was not even involved with that as far as approval or not approval. 78 00:03:48,767 --> 00:03:51,767 Ms. Hansen, he just testified that your husband, 79 00:03:52,367 --> 00:03:55,400 again, for some reason's not here to support any of what you have to say. 80 00:03:55,466 --> 00:03:56,767 - Correct. - Authorized him 81 00:03:56,834 --> 00:03:58,333 to contact the insurance company. 82 00:03:58,767 --> 00:04:02,533 So the email that Mr. Baker sent to your insurance carrier 83 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,066 on May 20th, 2022, you have never seen that? 84 00:04:06,166 --> 00:04:10,233 I did see that. That was for replacement of a fiberglass roof. 85 00:04:10,333 --> 00:04:11,967 That wasn't for resealing the roof. 86 00:04:12,033 --> 00:04:13,834 So when did you see that email? 87 00:04:14,133 --> 00:04:16,300 I seen that email on May 22nd. 88 00:04:16,367 --> 00:04:20,200 So on May 22nd, you see that he on your behalf has put in a claim 89 00:04:20,433 --> 00:04:23,734 for a new roof and you never said to him, I don't want that? 90 00:04:24,233 --> 00:04:25,800 We never told him to re... 91 00:04:26,166 --> 00:04:29,900 We didn't ask, we didn't hire him to replace the roof. 92 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,233 We hired him on May 1st. 93 00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:33,967 - Did you object to this? - Uh, May 4th. 94 00:04:34,033 --> 00:04:39,600 Did you object to this and say, "Listen, I don't want a claim for $8,400. 95 00:04:39,667 --> 00:04:44,967 I just wanted him to reseal the roof, not replace it with a new one." 96 00:04:45,266 --> 00:04:48,600 I can't answer that because it could have been my husband talking to him. 97 00:04:48,667 --> 00:04:52,200 Well, forget about what your husband may or may not have said because your husband, 98 00:04:52,433 --> 00:04:54,834 I have no document to suggest he ever said that. 99 00:04:55,066 --> 00:04:58,633 I'm asking you, did you ever say that to your insurance carrier? 100 00:04:59,033 --> 00:05:03,433 And as a matter of fact, September 29th, according to Mr. Baker, 101 00:05:03,533 --> 00:05:06,367 he received a check from you for $2,500. 102 00:05:06,433 --> 00:05:09,000 - Correct. - And this is a copy of the check, right? 103 00:05:09,066 --> 00:05:11,767 - [Hansen] Correct. - What was this $2,500 check for? 104 00:05:11,867 --> 00:05:14,166 Was it for a new roof or was it for resealing? 105 00:05:14,266 --> 00:05:15,166 Resealing? 106 00:05:15,533 --> 00:05:20,000 The $2,500 is what you claim the work that Mr. Baker here did 107 00:05:20,533 --> 00:05:22,834 was valued at, $2,500. 108 00:05:22,967 --> 00:05:28,400 Well, we gave him the $2,500 check because we were waiting for an estimate 109 00:05:28,467 --> 00:05:31,000 from Mr. Baker for the damage that he did to our RV. 110 00:05:31,066 --> 00:05:34,266 The only amount of money that you gave him was $2,500. 111 00:05:34,332 --> 00:05:37,332 Correct. That was partial payment 112 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,266 until we got the estimate on the damage to our RV. 113 00:05:40,332 --> 00:05:42,500 Show me on this check where it says partial payment. 114 00:05:42,567 --> 00:05:44,166 I did not write that in the memo. 115 00:05:44,233 --> 00:05:45,133 Nope, you didn't. 116 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:48,066 So you paid him $2,500 for all the work that he did. 117 00:05:48,133 --> 00:05:49,800 And how much did the insurance company give you? 118 00:05:50,834 --> 00:05:53,633 I honestly do not know because it didn't come in my name. 119 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,433 It came in my husband's name. 120 00:05:56,834 --> 00:06:01,467 That ma'am is exactly why the insurance fraud case is made out. 121 00:06:01,567 --> 00:06:03,200 Because you and your husband 122 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:06,400 received a payment from the insurance company for how much, sir? 123 00:06:06,567 --> 00:06:10,033 - That's $8,700. - $8,700. 124 00:06:10,433 --> 00:06:12,867 Does that sound about right? Do you not talk to your husband? 125 00:06:12,967 --> 00:06:15,467 - Your husband knows you're here, right? - Correct. He does. 126 00:06:15,533 --> 00:06:17,266 - Your husband knows- - We have separate checking accounts. 127 00:06:17,332 --> 00:06:18,200 Hold on, hold on. 128 00:06:18,266 --> 00:06:19,900 I don't care whether you have separate checking accounts. 129 00:06:19,967 --> 00:06:22,133 - It wasn't written out in my name? - Do you listen to yourself? 130 00:06:22,367 --> 00:06:26,332 You are here in court to defend yourself against a claim 131 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,567 that you know this man's making against you 132 00:06:28,633 --> 00:06:30,867 in which he's accusing you of insurance fraud, 133 00:06:31,133 --> 00:06:34,767 because the insurance company paid out on the claim that he made. 134 00:06:34,967 --> 00:06:36,834 With your permission, your husband's permission, 135 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,200 he puts in an estimate for the insurance carrier 136 00:06:39,266 --> 00:06:43,300 for a new roof and they authorized $8,700 worth of work. 137 00:06:43,533 --> 00:06:46,266 Then the check doesn't go to him from the insurance company, 138 00:06:46,332 --> 00:06:48,300 the check goes to you and your husband 139 00:06:48,567 --> 00:06:51,900 and instead of turning that check over to this man here who did the work, 140 00:06:52,066 --> 00:06:54,500 you only cut him a check for $2,500. 141 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,266 So you explain to me how it is that since you knew 142 00:06:57,332 --> 00:07:00,667 that that's what was going on here today, you didn't think to yourself, 143 00:07:00,734 --> 00:07:05,000 wait a minute, let me ask my husband how much the insurance company gave us. 144 00:07:05,266 --> 00:07:06,734 You didn't think that was important? 145 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:08,400 Well, I guess not. 146 00:07:08,567 --> 00:07:09,967 So what'd you do with the extra money? 147 00:07:10,767 --> 00:07:13,033 [Narrator] Coming up on Tribunal Justice. 148 00:07:13,367 --> 00:07:14,633 You know there were some people, Ms. Hansen, 149 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:18,266 who are just habitual lawsuit filers and defenders. 150 00:07:18,533 --> 00:07:21,567 How many other lawsuits have you been involved in in Minnesota? 151 00:07:21,633 --> 00:07:23,467 I already know the answer so why don't you just tell me. 152 00:07:23,834 --> 00:07:25,533 - How many lawsuits? - [Levy] Yep. 153 00:07:32,834 --> 00:07:36,600 [Narrator] Ralph Baker is suing RV owner, Cheryl Hansen 154 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,867 for unpaid repairs he made to her motor home. 155 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:44,767 Cheryl claims Ralph never gave her an estimate and overcharged her. 156 00:07:45,166 --> 00:07:47,300 You didn't think to yourself, wait a minute, 157 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,933 let me ask my husband how much the insurance company gave us. 158 00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:52,834 You didn't think that was important? 159 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:54,400 Well, I guess not. 160 00:07:54,467 --> 00:07:55,800 So what'd you do with the extra money? 161 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,867 We still have it. 162 00:07:57,967 --> 00:07:59,567 Yes ma'am. What do you have to say, Ms. Baker? 163 00:07:59,633 --> 00:08:04,867 Um, I'm tired of her saying that he did this job without her knowing about it. 164 00:08:05,066 --> 00:08:06,567 No one believes that, ma'am. I know. 165 00:08:06,633 --> 00:08:07,900 He wouldn't have done the work for nothing. 166 00:08:07,967 --> 00:08:08,900 - Okay. - Thank you. 167 00:08:09,033 --> 00:08:10,000 - Okay. - Thank you. 168 00:08:10,266 --> 00:08:11,633 You know, there are some people, Ms. Hansen, 169 00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:15,300 who are just habitual lawsuit filers and defenders. 170 00:08:15,567 --> 00:08:18,700 How many other lawsuits have you been involved in in Minnesota? 171 00:08:18,934 --> 00:08:20,867 I already know the answer, so why don't you just tell me. 172 00:08:21,233 --> 00:08:22,900 - How many lawsuits? - Yep. 173 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,200 - Small claims cases. - I believe one. 174 00:08:26,266 --> 00:08:27,433 [Levy] Are you sure about that? 175 00:08:27,734 --> 00:08:32,700 Um, I think so. 176 00:08:33,299 --> 00:08:35,700 Not even close. Judge Acker. 177 00:08:35,967 --> 00:08:36,834 Thank you, Judge. 178 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:41,567 So with respect to the insurance payment, you were initially a bit equivocal 179 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:47,834 with Judge Levy about what the insurance company knew, what you knew, they knew. 180 00:08:48,367 --> 00:08:51,600 But if you look at the second paragraph of your answer, it says, 181 00:08:51,767 --> 00:08:55,200 a few days later they, meaning the insurance company, 182 00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:58,734 approved the estimate for a little over $8,000. 183 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,433 - You see that? - Correct. 184 00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:03,166 So you were aware of the fact that the insurance company- 185 00:09:03,266 --> 00:09:04,200 - Approved- - Yes. 186 00:09:04,266 --> 00:09:05,800 An $8,000 payment. 187 00:09:05,867 --> 00:09:09,967 And while you've suggested that the $2,500 that you gave the plaintiff 188 00:09:10,333 --> 00:09:13,533 was just a partial payment, that was not your intention. 189 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,333 It was your intention to cut him off there, wasn't it? 190 00:09:16,433 --> 00:09:19,200 - No, it was not. - Let's go back to your answer. 191 00:09:19,333 --> 00:09:23,800 "We paid him with the average rate for resealing the roof in our area, 192 00:09:24,233 --> 00:09:26,066 which was $2,500. 193 00:09:26,333 --> 00:09:30,033 As far as we're concerned, we paid him what was owed. 194 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:31,200 We owe him nothing." 195 00:09:31,266 --> 00:09:34,500 Now, do you wanna change the answer that you just gave me 20 seconds ago? 196 00:09:34,834 --> 00:09:36,233 - Yes. - Yeah. 197 00:09:37,100 --> 00:09:40,667 This statement right down here, I shouldn't have ever said it like that. 198 00:09:40,734 --> 00:09:42,700 And you know what, you probably shouldn't have stiffed him either, 199 00:09:42,767 --> 00:09:43,734 but here we are. 200 00:09:44,033 --> 00:09:46,233 But I did not stiff him, Your Honor. 201 00:09:46,567 --> 00:09:47,967 I gave him- - [Acker] So wait, wait, let's stop. 202 00:09:48,033 --> 00:09:48,967 - Let's stop. - Okay. 203 00:09:49,066 --> 00:09:53,633 You know that the insurance company, based on representations he made 204 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:55,734 to the insurance company about the work that he 205 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,767 was going to do with your approval-- 206 00:09:57,834 --> 00:09:58,700 Correct. 207 00:09:58,767 --> 00:10:02,333 --was an $8,000 estimate that involved a roof repair, correct? 208 00:10:02,767 --> 00:10:06,367 - Okay. - So you knew that they approved that, 209 00:10:06,633 --> 00:10:10,133 yet you decided to pay him, uh, less than half of that. 210 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,300 So tell me what part of your story is gonna modify a little bit now. 211 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,000 Well, I'm sure I'm not gonna be able to change your mind, Your honor, 212 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:24,100 but I knew about the Mr. Baker sending the estimate to the insurance company. 213 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,834 We had asked Ralph if there was any hail damage, 214 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:29,066 if you would please submit an estimate. Yes. 215 00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:34,967 But we didn't hire him to reroof the motor home. 216 00:10:35,133 --> 00:10:36,633 I think what you're saying is, 217 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,900 because we didn't say reroof the motor home, 218 00:10:39,967 --> 00:10:43,433 the fact that you said reach out to the insurance company, 219 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,066 you know that he's saying, I'm gonna reroof the motor home. 220 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,867 The insurance company says here's $8,000 to reroof the motor home. 221 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:55,000 You deposit that check for $8,000 that was given to you to reroof 222 00:10:55,066 --> 00:10:57,600 the motor home and then you give him less than half of that, 223 00:10:57,767 --> 00:11:00,467 and say it was never the job to reroof the motor home. 224 00:11:00,767 --> 00:11:02,200 How dumb do you think we are? 225 00:11:02,533 --> 00:11:04,800 - I don't think you're any of it- - You're acting like it. 226 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,000 So do we have pictures of the work that you did? 227 00:11:09,166 --> 00:11:10,033 Yes. 228 00:11:10,233 --> 00:11:12,033 What do we have? What are we seeing here, sir? 229 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,266 Okay, to start on the left, that's, uh, 230 00:11:14,734 --> 00:11:17,467 the condition the roof was when it came to me. 231 00:11:17,734 --> 00:11:20,934 You could see on the edge there where Mr. Hansen 232 00:11:21,033 --> 00:11:22,500 did his pressure washing. 233 00:11:22,767 --> 00:11:26,333 And then the other picture is almost completed. 234 00:11:27,100 --> 00:11:31,100 Okay, now there's a picture on the left is what the sides 235 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:32,767 of the motor home looked like. 236 00:11:33,233 --> 00:11:35,533 It that, that's a thin piece of fiberglass 237 00:11:35,633 --> 00:11:39,400 that goes into a channel where that was all loose. 238 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:42,467 And if you don't, uh, seal it, and secure it, 239 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:45,734 it'll be f flopping in the breeze as you go down the road. 240 00:11:45,867 --> 00:11:49,734 Now if I recall, does this picture represent some damage 241 00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:51,967 that you caused to the motor home? 242 00:11:52,066 --> 00:11:54,934 Some inadvertent damage that happened with the lawnmower? 243 00:11:55,066 --> 00:11:56,700 - [ Baker ] Yes. - And you were offering them 244 00:11:56,767 --> 00:11:58,867 a $2,000 credit for that damage? 245 00:11:58,934 --> 00:11:59,800 I was. 246 00:11:59,867 --> 00:12:02,633 You've since retracted that offer of credit. 247 00:12:02,734 --> 00:12:05,967 Is it really fair to retract the offer? 'Cause you caused that damage? 248 00:12:06,066 --> 00:12:08,133 - I did. - Do we know how much it costs? 249 00:12:08,533 --> 00:12:10,367 - Did you get an estimate for the repair? - I don't know. 250 00:12:10,533 --> 00:12:13,700 Um, they took the, uh, RV early June, 251 00:12:13,834 --> 00:12:16,266 like second to June or something like that. 252 00:12:16,533 --> 00:12:19,734 Went north with it to their camping area. 253 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,266 And on the way they stopped at an RV repair shop up there 254 00:12:23,533 --> 00:12:25,467 and they got an estimate from them. 255 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:26,900 I just talked to the guy. 256 00:12:26,967 --> 00:12:31,667 He said that he had his body man there and he said 500 to $800. 257 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:35,100 Does anyone have a written estimate with respect to this body work? 258 00:12:35,165 --> 00:12:37,300 - Did you ever obtain one? - I did, Your Honor. 259 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,834 - And uh, did you submit that to us? No. 260 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,467 And why didn't you submit it? 261 00:12:42,033 --> 00:12:43,800 Because I wasn't counter suing him. 262 00:12:43,967 --> 00:12:46,900 You might've been entitled to an offset, but now there's nothing to prove. 263 00:12:47,300 --> 00:12:48,300 Judge DiMango. 264 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,165 Ma'am, what do you do for a living? 265 00:12:50,433 --> 00:12:51,800 I am retired now. 266 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:53,700 Before you retired, what did you do? 267 00:12:53,834 --> 00:12:56,033 I worked for the state of Minnesota. 268 00:12:56,367 --> 00:12:59,433 Um, I worked at the uh, mental health facility. 269 00:12:59,834 --> 00:13:02,333 I did legal work, I did commitments. 270 00:13:02,767 --> 00:13:06,166 - What about your husband? - Uh, he has been retired. 271 00:13:06,533 --> 00:13:08,767 He used to uh, remove asbestos. 272 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:12,600 And sir, this is what you've been doing for a living for quite a number of years 273 00:13:12,734 --> 00:13:13,700 as I heard earlier. 274 00:13:13,767 --> 00:13:15,633 And ma'am, were you always his sidekick there? 275 00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:18,100 - I was. - You must have been in charge, I think. 276 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,000 I can tell. I can tell when you wanted to get up. 277 00:13:21,367 --> 00:13:25,600 Alright. So the best I can glean from this situation is, 278 00:13:25,934 --> 00:13:28,133 you had issues with your RV. 279 00:13:28,233 --> 00:13:29,367 So you bring it to him. 280 00:13:29,467 --> 00:13:32,165 He doesn't just get the RV and call the insurance company. 281 00:13:32,233 --> 00:13:34,133 - He gets the RV- - And he cleans it up. 282 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,066 And he cleans it up. 283 00:13:35,133 --> 00:13:37,700 While he is cleaning it up he sees this hail damage. 284 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:41,567 He tells you that these types of things can lead to other problems 285 00:13:41,633 --> 00:13:44,333 because they're breaking the seal in different places. 286 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,100 And you say, "We'll put in an insurance claim because it hailed." 287 00:13:49,165 --> 00:13:51,767 Now the photo of the hail damage, I think we've seen, 288 00:13:51,834 --> 00:13:53,233 it's all with all circles around it. 289 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:54,934 - Would that be correct? - [Baker] That would be correct. 290 00:13:55,133 --> 00:13:57,834 So he says you could probably put in an insurance claim 291 00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:00,333 and you say, "Great, put in an insurance claim for me." 292 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,867 The insurance company reimburses you and your husband 293 00:14:05,133 --> 00:14:09,166 at least $8,700 for all of the work that he did. 294 00:14:09,467 --> 00:14:13,867 So your view from this is, "Well, I didn't really want him to do all that other work 295 00:14:13,934 --> 00:14:17,333 that he ultimately did. All I wanted was the 2,500. 296 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,066 So that's all I'm gonna give him." 297 00:14:19,166 --> 00:14:23,266 And the other money I'm going to just kind of what? Hold onto? 298 00:14:23,500 --> 00:14:25,834 No, I, that was not my intention. 299 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,133 - You know how we judge your action? - Mr. Baker did a beautiful job. 300 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,266 You know, but you know in the law we have a charge that says, 301 00:14:32,333 --> 00:14:35,700 "You can't always see the intent in somebody's mind, but you can grasp 302 00:14:35,767 --> 00:14:38,367 what they've intended by the actions that they took." 303 00:14:38,533 --> 00:14:41,900 Let's just say you got 2,500 for his insurance claim. 304 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,934 And then when all was said and done, he said, "I said 25, but it was was 24, 305 00:14:46,066 --> 00:14:47,934 you could keep the hundred, that's not a big deal." 306 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,100 The insurance fraud comes in when you put in a claim 307 00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:54,433 that you know is not what you are looking to do. 308 00:14:54,567 --> 00:14:58,834 And he only gets 2,500. We have proof of that. 309 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,400 We have proof. 310 00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:03,133 [Narrator] coming up on Tribunal Justice. 311 00:15:03,667 --> 00:15:05,567 Your actions have consequences, ma'am. 312 00:15:05,667 --> 00:15:07,767 You don't get to put a penny in your pocket 313 00:15:07,867 --> 00:15:09,333 for the work that that man did. 314 00:15:09,567 --> 00:15:11,266 I told you we were gonna prove insurance fraud. 315 00:15:11,333 --> 00:15:12,767 That's exactly what we did. 316 00:15:20,467 --> 00:15:23,467 The insurance fraud comes in when you put in a claim 317 00:15:23,734 --> 00:15:26,900 that you know is not what you are looking to do. 318 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,333 And he only gets 2,500. 319 00:15:29,567 --> 00:15:32,400 We have proof of that. We have proof. 320 00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:34,900 I know you're entrenched in your position here but- 321 00:15:34,967 --> 00:15:39,133 But to that check, there was a letter that was attached to that check. 322 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:40,800 Yeah, I see a letter here. 323 00:15:40,967 --> 00:15:43,467 - Yeah, we saw the evidence. - And it refers to the damages 324 00:15:43,567 --> 00:15:45,567 to our, our, our motor vehicle. 325 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,867 Mr. Baker kept saying that he was going to get estimates for it. 326 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:50,867 - Estimates for it. - But the point is, 327 00:15:50,934 --> 00:15:54,834 you've got an insurance check for more than this. 328 00:15:55,033 --> 00:15:57,266 Now, whether or not he should get that money, 329 00:15:57,333 --> 00:15:59,165 that's a whole other issue, maybe. 330 00:15:59,533 --> 00:16:03,300 But the reality here is, you kept it. 331 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,700 After putting in a claim for which you keep saying, 332 00:16:06,834 --> 00:16:08,033 you did not intend. 333 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,000 Now I, what did you wanna say? 334 00:16:10,133 --> 00:16:14,200 Uh, Larry would come over to our house every day, Mr. Hansen. 335 00:16:14,767 --> 00:16:17,467 And every time he called or came over, he added more things 336 00:16:17,567 --> 00:16:18,767 for my husband to check. 337 00:16:19,066 --> 00:16:20,800 And I said, "How long is this gonna go on?" 338 00:16:21,467 --> 00:16:24,867 We, he had other jobs to work on and Mr. Hansen 339 00:16:24,967 --> 00:16:27,000 kept coming up with more things for him to do. 340 00:16:27,166 --> 00:16:30,667 I said, "It seems funny to me. Something doesn't feel right." 341 00:16:30,734 --> 00:16:32,600 But he kept calling and coming over and wanting more. 342 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:34,165 What did you think? What was your gut? 343 00:16:34,333 --> 00:16:36,233 Did you think he wasn't gonna pay you in the end? 344 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:39,667 Exactly, I said, "He's trying to be your best friend right now." 345 00:16:39,867 --> 00:16:42,066 - And I- - Because you thought he was kinda trying 346 00:16:42,433 --> 00:16:43,500 to scam him basically. 347 00:16:43,633 --> 00:16:48,100 Yes. And he, that's why he said he'd give him 2000 to fix the scratch. 348 00:16:48,233 --> 00:16:51,000 See, the other problem is that in the papers 349 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:53,567 you say that you checked around in the area, 350 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:58,500 you got other resealing quotes and you weren't gonna give him more money. 351 00:16:58,867 --> 00:17:02,400 That you were only gonna give him what the going rate was in the area. 352 00:17:02,567 --> 00:17:03,600 You can't do that. 353 00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:05,900 It's like going into a supermarket and saying, you know what, 354 00:17:05,967 --> 00:17:09,066 I was in uh, Kifu the other day and this milk was only a dollar 50. 355 00:17:09,133 --> 00:17:10,700 So I'm not gonna give you any more than that. 356 00:17:10,767 --> 00:17:12,867 You're charging me two and a quarter. I'm not doing that. 357 00:17:13,066 --> 00:17:14,233 You can't do that. 358 00:17:14,433 --> 00:17:18,666 You are not an unintelligent woman. So you know a lot of this. 359 00:17:18,934 --> 00:17:22,032 So for us to accept what you're saying at face value, 360 00:17:22,367 --> 00:17:24,300 it defies common sense and logic. 361 00:17:24,767 --> 00:17:26,532 Um, and I don't have any other questions. 362 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:27,767 I do. 363 00:17:27,834 --> 00:17:31,400 Ms. Hansen, on September 29th, you sent him that $2,500 check. 364 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,500 And October 21st you responds in part, and he says, 365 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,734 "After some investigation, I have found out you guys were untruthful 366 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,033 several times to me. 367 00:17:39,233 --> 00:17:42,867 One was that you would pay me when you got paid by your insurance company. 368 00:17:43,033 --> 00:17:46,734 The check was made to you on June 1st, 2022. 369 00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:48,667 We have still not been paid." 370 00:17:48,967 --> 00:17:51,834 This is the man of his word. He says he's a handshake guy. 371 00:17:52,533 --> 00:17:55,667 He says to you and your husband, go ahead, take the RV and you just pay me 372 00:17:55,767 --> 00:17:58,533 as you say you would when the insurance company gives the check. 373 00:17:58,633 --> 00:18:01,133 And you've indicated they haven't given you the check yet. 374 00:18:01,233 --> 00:18:02,300 That was a lie. 375 00:18:02,667 --> 00:18:04,100 I don't know when. I don't know. 376 00:18:04,166 --> 00:18:05,967 Honestly, I don't know when Larry got the check. 377 00:18:06,066 --> 00:18:08,600 - [Levy] Got it. - We picked up the RV on June 1st. 378 00:18:08,834 --> 00:18:10,066 - [Levy] Why? - So I have no idea. 379 00:18:10,133 --> 00:18:12,633 So the same day that you pick up the RV 380 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,500 just happens to be coincidentally the same day that the insurance company 381 00:18:16,767 --> 00:18:19,533 gives you the check and you don't make any mention of that to him. Right? 382 00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,433 - Like I said- - [Levy] I got it. You don't know. 383 00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:23,300 - Okay. - So Mr. Baker then asks you 384 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,200 in this letter of October 21st, "Why should you make more money 385 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:33,767 for the work I did on the RV when I did all the work?" 386 00:18:34,367 --> 00:18:36,767 I wanna see your response to this email when you said, 387 00:18:36,834 --> 00:18:39,834 "That's not all I'm giving you. It's just a partial payment." 388 00:18:39,967 --> 00:18:41,867 - Let me see that. - I don't have anything. 389 00:18:41,934 --> 00:18:43,967 Yeah, exactly. I have nothing further. 390 00:18:44,166 --> 00:18:45,667 We're gonna retire to deliberate. 391 00:18:45,734 --> 00:18:48,367 Court stands in recess. Parties are excused. 392 00:18:50,333 --> 00:18:52,200 Mr. Baker said it all in his letter. 393 00:18:52,967 --> 00:18:56,333 "Why should you make more money for the work I did on the RV 394 00:18:56,433 --> 00:18:57,734 when I did all the work?" 395 00:18:57,934 --> 00:18:59,800 Period. She's incorrigible. 396 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:03,033 I can only imagine what the state of Minnesota had to do with her 397 00:19:03,100 --> 00:19:05,800 and what she did for them in legal compliance for them. 398 00:19:05,934 --> 00:19:06,934 It's insane. 399 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,367 She received a check for the insurance company for $8,718, 400 00:19:11,767 --> 00:19:14,233 and that's the money that she has to pay him back. 401 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,567 The $2,500 check that was issued on September 29th, 402 00:19:17,633 --> 00:19:19,700 I don't trust that she's going to honor that. 403 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,233 So I say that judgment in the favor of the plaintiff for $8,718 and one cent. 404 00:19:25,433 --> 00:19:28,166 There was no reason he needed to file this lawsuit. 405 00:19:28,367 --> 00:19:32,367 She knew that she was shorting him when she gave him only that $2,500. 406 00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:35,500 She has no real defense. I would award for her bad faith. 407 00:19:35,567 --> 00:19:37,100 Okay, so like you're saying, 408 00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:39,700 she repeatedly told lies. 409 00:19:39,834 --> 00:19:42,967 I mean, she cashed the check on the day she got it and then said, 410 00:19:43,033 --> 00:19:45,266 well, I'll let you know when we get paid and then we can pay you. 411 00:19:45,333 --> 00:19:48,567 And just sailed off into the sunset, you know, on their vacation. 412 00:19:48,967 --> 00:19:52,400 He's entitled to the money that he earned, that he worked hard for. 413 00:19:52,533 --> 00:19:53,400 Let's do that. 414 00:19:53,567 --> 00:19:56,500 - I'm on board. - Yep. $8,718 and one cent. 415 00:19:56,633 --> 00:19:57,667 - Great. - Thank you. 416 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,367 Court is back in session. 417 00:20:01,467 --> 00:20:03,300 Parties are reminded, you're still under oath. 418 00:20:03,533 --> 00:20:04,800 - Thank you, Byrd. - [Byrd] Mm-hmm. 419 00:20:04,934 --> 00:20:07,200 Mr. Baker, do you have that check. The $2,500 check? 420 00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:08,200 I do. 421 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,033 Can you take it out, please? 422 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,867 Rip it up. 423 00:20:17,166 --> 00:20:19,633 We don't trust that she's gonna honor that check anyway. 424 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,066 I, I told him that in a text message. 425 00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:24,834 - [Levy] Right. - That I want cash. I don't trust him. 426 00:20:24,934 --> 00:20:27,166 So how many RV repair shops 427 00:20:27,266 --> 00:20:31,567 are there within say, a hundred miles of where you live in Minnesota? 428 00:20:31,633 --> 00:20:33,266 Probably 50 or more. 429 00:20:33,333 --> 00:20:36,200 You may wanna take the information that we're gonna provide you with now 430 00:20:36,266 --> 00:20:38,166 and share it with the other RV dealers. 431 00:20:38,233 --> 00:20:40,400 - Okay. - About who the defendant is, 432 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:41,500 and what she's capable of. 433 00:20:41,567 --> 00:20:44,233 Because we find her story completely incredible. 434 00:20:44,533 --> 00:20:47,934 That there is no doubt in my mind that she committed insurance fraud. 435 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,133 She attempted to, but for your good efforts. 436 00:20:50,333 --> 00:20:52,233 And, but for our ability to get to the truth, 437 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,133 let them know that before they do any work for her, that they wouldn't get paid. 438 00:20:56,266 --> 00:20:58,600 - [Baker] Yes. - Your actions have consequences, ma'am. 439 00:20:58,934 --> 00:21:02,700 You don't get to put a penny in your pocket for the work that that man did. 440 00:21:02,867 --> 00:21:04,600 I told you we were gonna prove insurance fraud. 441 00:21:04,667 --> 00:21:06,066 And that's exactly what we did. 442 00:21:06,333 --> 00:21:10,734 The judgment's in your favor. $8,718 and one cent. 443 00:21:10,934 --> 00:21:12,233 And the last thing I'm gonna say, 444 00:21:12,567 --> 00:21:15,400 is that you had an opportunity when you came in here today 445 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:19,834 to make a request that they pay you by waiver counterclaim for damages done. 446 00:21:20,367 --> 00:21:23,266 You were here, they were here. The same facts were here. 447 00:21:23,333 --> 00:21:24,934 The same timetables were here. 448 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,100 You could have done it. You chose not to. 449 00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:31,367 If you have an intent to file a claim against them for that damage, 450 00:21:31,834 --> 00:21:33,667 you just make sure that whoever the judge is, 451 00:21:33,734 --> 00:21:37,600 that they know that that issue was already involved in this litigation 452 00:21:37,667 --> 00:21:39,200 and she failed to bring it up. 453 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,867 -- Thank you, Your Honor. - You're welcome. 454 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:42,800 - That's the judgment of the court. - Thank you. 455 00:21:42,967 --> 00:21:46,333 This case is now concluded. Parties are excused. You may step out. 456 00:21:48,734 --> 00:21:49,967 I don't have any comment. 457 00:21:51,133 --> 00:21:53,033 You know it. That was a hard one. Yeah. 458 00:21:53,133 --> 00:21:54,000 No comment. 459 00:21:54,133 --> 00:21:55,000 You're done . 460 00:21:56,133 --> 00:21:57,000 No comment. 461 00:21:57,433 --> 00:21:58,967 Uh, always listen to your wife. 462 00:21:59,133 --> 00:22:00,600 Now look at me and say it. 463 00:22:02,133 --> 00:22:03,633 [Narrator] need to take someone to court. 464 00:22:03,767 --> 00:22:06,800 Let Tribunal Justice decide your case. 465 00:22:07,133 --> 00:22:09,967 Find us on social media @Tribunal Justice.