[distant siren blaring]
[cars honking]
[Mitch] Once negotiations broke down,
we were left with little choice.
The decision was made for us to insert gas
in an effort to coerce those on the inside to come out.
We followed protocol to a T.
The Davidians were raining down gunfire on my men.
It looked like Christmas out there with bullets hitting
our tanks, and my men showed such restraint.
Not a single shot was returned from the FBI.
Now with that being said, are there tactics
or decisions that you would've made differently?
Not a one.
Not a one, huh?
[man over PA] This is not an assault.
The siege is over now.
The gas you will be smelling is a non-lethal tear gas.
-[people screaming] -Exit the compound.
[reporter on TV] ...M60 vehicle,
this combat engineering vehicle,
uh, pumped tear gas...
Gary, the Davidians had a death wish.
That's not on the FBI.
This thing was never gonna turn out any different than it did.
If anything, we should've gone in sooner,
once we realized that negotiations
weren't yielding any results.
-No results? -[Mitch] Yeah.
You know I seem to recall negotiating 35 people out
of that building safely, including 21 children.
You're acting like we rushed in.
We waited 51 days, we gave you 51 days
to try to talk 'em out, and you couldn't do it.
-[explosion] -[people scream]
Why isn't anyone coming out? They should be coming out.
-[man] No! -[tank rumbling]
[man grunts]
[reporter on TV] ...inside this building.
Seventeen of those 95 people, children.
Some 30...
[woman coughs]
-We give up. We give up. -[Mitch] Okay.
Somebody help me!
We got people down here!
Wait! Wait!
You failed, you didn't do your job, so we had to do ours.
[Alan] Gentlemen, why don't we all take a break?
Hmm?
Give everyone a chance to cool down.
Gary, you need to get your shit together.
We need to come clean, Alan.
-Oh. -People are angry
about what happened in Waco, and they're scared
because they think that we did it on purpose.
And we're too scared
to tell them the truth, that they're wrong.
It wasn't part of some master plan.
It was just a bunch of bad decisions and incompetence.
[Mitch] Speak for yourself, Gary.
Your men, they may have been incompetent.
Mine sure weren't.
Oh, yeah.
[sucks teeth] Well, the medal is in the mail, Mitch.
[reporter on TV] Sunny day today. We can expect
much, much more of the same over the next few days.
You might wanna do some of those outdoor activities
-you've been saving up for. -Thanks, Sammy.
[reporter] Coming up next,
the trial of the Waco Five
begins in San Antonio this week
as a federal grand jury indicted five of the surviving
Branch Davidians for unlawful possession of firearms,
and aiding in the murder of federal officers.
[man] You ask me,
it's the FBI that should be standing trial,
not those religious nuts.
Our government just went in there,
burned those people alive, women and children.
[man 2] I think every ATF and FBI agent
at Waco should go to jail.
dramatic music plays
theme music plays
-[siren wailing] -[indistinct chatter]
-[Dusty] Noesner. -[Gary] Yeah.
[Dusty] It's been awhile.
[Gary] Oh yeah, sure has, since what?
The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots?
No, I feel like I've seen you since.
Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's on the menu today?
Well, we got four guys wearing ex-presidents masks.
Oh, like that movie Point Break?
Never said they were original.
No, these guys have been running around all over,
robbing banks in Oklahoma,
Arkansas, 21 in all.
They're efficient, you know, smart, in and out, 90 seconds,
so local authorities had had a hard time figuring out
where they are until today when we got a last-minute tip
that bank was gonna be their next target.
Now, we managed to grab three of the guys,
but one of them has barricaded himself inside,
and he has hostages.
We feel all four of these guys are members
of the Aryan Republican Army.
Oh, great. Nazis.
[telephone ringing]
What?
[Gary on phone] Hi, my name's Gary.
Who am I speaking with?
People call me "Wild Bill".
Well, Wild Bill, I'm here to help you.
[Wild Bill] Yeah? Well, you can help me
by getting me a helicopter,
and I want it now
or I'm gonna start killing people.
And don't even think about trying to come in here
because I got a pipe bomb and I will blow
this place sky high if you try it.
[Gary] Let me look into getting you that helicopter.
I'm serious!
[Gary] I'm taking you seriously, Wild Bill.
-Is Bomb Squad present? -Uh-hmm.
Good. Keep 'em ready.
All right. So, uh, they're gonna need
a little time getting you that helicopter.
-No. I want it now! -[Gary] I do, too.
But right now, the only available helicopter
is 50 miles away.
In the meantime, maybe you can tell me
how you got into this mess?
Yeah. I got into this mess
because somebody has to fight back.
You can only push people so far.
[Gary] That's very true.
[device beeping]
[sighs]
[watch stops beeping]
[engine starts]
[gunshots]
Who gave you permission to use that thing in here?
I'm a big boy, I gave myself permission.
Machines are not allowed in here without a court order.
Okay. Here's my court order.
Funny.
I don't see my signature on that.
Judge Smith.
I'm Dan Cogdell. I represent Clive Doyle.
You're not defending anybody with that thing in here.
I want it gone by the time we begin.
Uh, but, Your Honor, I have all my notes in it.
[Judge Smith] Then I suggest you find a way
to get your notes out of it.
[Dan] Oh, shit.
dramatic music plays
[crowd shouting]
[woman] Baby killers!
How come they hate us so much?
They don't even know us.
We'll be okay...
somehow.
[Judge Smith] You wanted to present a motion?
[Dan] I did, Your Honor.
I would ask to predefine inflammatory words.
Inflammatory words?
Yes, Your Honor, we would move
to make certain words inadmissible.
Which words would you recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell?
Well, for example,
we would motion to exclude the word "compound"
when referring to the home at Mount Carmel,
as the word "compound" has militaristic connotations.
At this point the word "compound" has been used
a million times to refer to Mount Carmel.
But to the defendants this was not a compound,
this was their home
where they lived and raised children,
where they had a God-given right to practice their--
[Judge Smith] Save it for the trial, Mr. Cogdell.
Denied. Next.
[Dan] We would like to exclude the term
"Branch Davidians".
They never call themselves by that name.
Objection.
If we can't call them Branch Davidians,
then what are we supposed to call them?
-Out to lunch? -[Dan] Well, I think
we can all agree that moniker
has been thoroughly tarnished by the media.
[Judge Smith] The term "Branch Davidian"
was tarnished by their own actions.
[Dan] But, Your Honor, they are not on trial
for their religious beliefs.
The defense used the term "Branch Davidians"
in their own filings.
I have a motion here filed
by Rocket Rosen of the defense.
Who's Rocket Rosen?
I am, Your Honor.
Your name is Rocket?
[Rocket] Yes, Your Honor.
I was born on the 4th of July,
so my daddy named me Rocket.
Well, I was born on October 26, so my daddy named me Walter.
-Did you file this motion? -I did.
-But that was a mistake. -[Judge Smith] Motion denied.
Next.
[Dan] The word "cult".
Do they not yet realize that this was a cult?
[Rocket] This was no cult.
It was a communal church
and David Koresh was their pastor.
Once that pastor takes 20 wives
and leads his church to mass suicide,
I would say the word "cult" is applicable.
But the defendants are not on trial for mass suicide.
Nobody thinks that any one of them had anything to do
with any fire or had multiple wives
or took child brides or any of it.
Using the word "cult" is an attempt
to try our clients for another man's sins.
[Judge Smith] Motion denied.
[Dan] My client Clive Doyle
was there 15 years
before David Koresh's arrival.
Rose and thorn, Karen?
My thorn is I didn't sleep
very well 'cause Shari kept stealing all the covers.
And rose, I got extra oatmeal at breakfast.
Well, how about you, Shari?
Rose, playing.
Thorn, Karen.
[laughter]
How about you, Dad?
Thorn is my back's been hurting me again.
My rose is that I get to spend this moment right now
with my two favorite people in the entire world, you two.
[Lois] I have never wavered on this, George,
you don't wear a sidearm for Sabbath service.
Why do you think you're so special, mama?
That you get to make all the rules?
Because I am your prophet.
[motorcycle engine roaring]
[engine stops]
Don't mind him.
My name is Vernon Howell.
I'm looking for the Prophet Lois Roden.
Come in.
Service is starting.
[Wild Bill on phone] That's what you don't get.
It's about being a patriot
'cause this country has lost its way.
It's turned against the people
who made it great in the first place.
So what are we supposed to do?
Just wait for things to change
or do we fight back?
And in your eyes, robbing banks
is a way of fighting back?
[Wild Bill] No, robbing banks was never the point.
Then what is?
[inhales sharply] Yeah. You'll see.
Yeah, payback's coming.
It's coming sooner than you think.
[Gary] Look, we've been talking now for 20 hours.
And it seems to me that you and I
aren't gonna agree on much.
So maybe we could focus
on what we do agree on.
Yeah, like what?
[Gary] Like you and your friends have robbed
21 banks successfully,
nobody hurt, perfectly executed.
No, I'm not admitting the other banks.
[Gary] I'm not asking you to do that.
But you see to the world right now, you're a legend.
You're Robin Hood, 22 banks and you haven't
hurt a single person.
Now you'll do a few years' time for sure.
But then, who knows?
Maybe you'd sell your movie rights
to Hollywood and go sip margaritas on a beach.
[scoffs]
[Gary] But the second you take someone's life,
you are just another murderer.
And nobody will care
what you have to say ever again.
You come out of that bank and you're gonna have options.
You come out of that bank, you're gonna have a future.
You want people to hear what you have to say,
then come out of the bank.
[door creaks open]
[Wild Bill] Don't shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed!
[police officer] Clear! Get down on your knees.
Hands on your head.
Interlace your fingers.
Our best strategy is going to be to convince
the jury that David Koresh was misunderstood.
We need to humanize him, make him seem less
like the boogeyman, more relatable.
David Koresh was
an opportunistic narcissistic piece of shit.
We're not in the business of defending Koresh.
-He's dead. -(scoffs)
Well, if that's how you feel,
then why'd you even take this case?
The issue can't be whether or not
Koresh was the messiah.
If that's our case, then they win,
because guess what?
He wasn't.
Our case has to be about the fact
the United States government
raided these people's home without cause.
And it was their overreach, their hubris
that led to the deaths of 76 people including 17 children.
And in America, you don't get to do that
because, if they can do what they did to our clients
and get away with it, it'll give everyone
with a badge and a gun from a Wackenhut security guard
to Janet Reno the authority
to do whatever they want,
to whomever they want,
however they want.
And that's the argument we need to make.
-[lawyer] Amen. -[Rocket] Yeah.
What in the hell is that asshole doing here?
You get lost, Johnston, or are you,
uh, here to beg for mercy?
Neither. I've got an offer for you.
[Dan] They're offering 15 years with the possibility of parole.
What would I have to do if I did take the deal?
You'd have to plead guilty and then testify
against the other members of your group.
No, wait, wait, wait.
Before you close your mind to it,
you should know that they've offered
the same deal to all five of you.
If you don't take it, you face the possibility
of life without parole.
But I didn't do anything.
Clive, unfortunately, that doesn't matter.
It's a conspiracy charge.
If any single one of you is found guilty,
then you're all guilty.
If any one of you pulled the trigger of a gun,
then you all pulled the trigger.
You're gonna rise and fall together.
You got until opening statements to decide
and then the deal's off the table.
[Judge Smith] Here is what is going to happen.
Instead of arguing about this juror
or that juror,
going back and forth, you, then you.
I am gonna save us a whole lot of time
and the American taxpayer
a lot of money and help pick the jury myself.
So you can all relax.
Objection, Your Honor.
You can't object to me. I'm the judge.
[Dan] Well, then, uh, exception.
Noted.
[Dan scoffs]
Can he do that?
How do you feel about people who join a cult?
Objection.
Exception, Your Hon-- shit.
[clicks tongue] How do you feel
about people who join
extremist religious groups?
I do have negative feelings towards people
who abuse children if that's what you're asking.
Or people who give their sense of choice
over to false prophets.
[Judge Smith] You can stay.
[Vernon] So, Clive, how'd you come to be here?
My mom and I heard some of Lois's teachings,
so we followed that message all the way here.
That was 15 years ago.
[Vernon] All the way from Australia?
I don't think I'll ever leave.
Wow.
How about you? What brought you here?
Me?
Well, I learned to read by reading the Bible.
I can't see so well, you know, all the letters
get mixed up and stuff, so I have trouble reading books,
but the Bible.
Man, I could just sit and read it like magic.
And you know what struck me?
[Clive] Huh.
I mean, for years, I asked anyone who might know,
"Hey, what happened to all those old prophets?
Are there any still living now?
Or did they all get stuck here in this old book?"
And they'd say, "Quiet, boy.
Sit down and listen to what we're teachin'."
[laughs]
[Vernon] But nobody could answer that one question.
So I turned to God and I asked Him,
"Please, if there's a prophet, please lead me there."
Then three days later, out of the blue,
my grandma tells me about some prophet out here
on the plains of Waco.
Her name was Lois Roden,
and she lived at a place called Mount Carmel.
Went to my room, packed my stuff,
got here as fast as I could.
That's... like a miracle.
Yeah, that's what I thought too.
Did they offer you all the plea deal too?
My lawyer told me the worst thing
that could happen is someone else
taking the deal if I don't.
Man, the government wants their pound of flesh
and they're gonna get it
if we don't stay strong and stick together.
Look around this room.
Do you expect anyone is actually going to think
Clive shot federal agents in cold blood?
Or Ruth?
It doesn't matter what they think.
If they think any of us did it, then we all did it.
I wasn't even there.
Do you think any of this is about truth?
Or fairness? Or justice? Because it's not.
It is about anger.
They are gonna roll over us no matter what we do.
So we may as well get through this
with our dignity intact.
The government can make up whatever story they want
about what happened inside Mount Carmel,
but no one knows what you did
or didn't do behind closed doors,
nobody but the people in this room.
So if we stay united
and refute their story, then...
maybe we have a chance.
Oh, shit.
Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick your brain about something?
I was looking at Wild Bill's file.
[Dusty] Why? We already put him in jail.
Well, Wild Bill and his friends successfully robbed 21 banks.
But in their files,
it doesn't seem as though they made
any conspicuous purchases.
That, combined with his comment about "payback,"
it was bugging me
and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
So I took a closer look and I found this.
[Dusty] What am I looking at?
[Gary] You see that flag?
That's the same flag they flew over at Mount Carmel.
David Koresh designed it himself.
Huh.
Did Wild Bill have some connection to Waco?
I doubt it.
The flag is probably used more as a recruitment tool
to fire people up.
[clicks tongue] Any sense where that photo was taken?
It doesn't say in the file.
It looks like Elohim City to me.
It's a town of sorts.
Started in the early '70s by a group of former Mennonites,
which gave birth to the Christian Identity movement,
which is, basically--
Christianity for White Supremacists.
Uh-hmm.
We'd need a serious warrant and a small army to go in there.
Something which, after Waco, I don't think any of our bosses
would be willing to take a chance on.
[man] Clive Doyle, you have a visitor.
Let's go.
Some of the other families
mentioned something about a plea deal?
It's true. They've offered one.
I'm not sure I'm gonna take the deal, Karen.
Why not?
Because they want us to say it was our fault.
And it wasn't.
Just get out, Dad.
Shari's gone, everything's gone.
How much more do you feel like you have to suffer?
I loved David too, but it's over!
I need my father back.
I know, but...
You've already lost, Dad.
There's no more point in fighting it.
Anne...
she needs her grandfather.
What?
-[both chuckle] -Really?
There's your rose.
Is it?
dramatic music plays
[Jacob] It's 15 years of loyalty,
15 years of putting my life on the line and then for what?
For what?
Hey, hey, get your hands off me, man.
Get off me.
-Weren't you-- -Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, we've met.
Right.
Do you wanna get a drink?
On the fire ants?
On the goddamn fire ants.
[laughs] Oh, Jesus.
I mean, why anybody would build their heaven on earth
on top of a goddamn fire ant hill is just beyond me.
So, come on, why'd--why did you--
why did you ask me here?
Come on, I know it wasn't to talk about fire ants.
Because my wife thinks I should talk to someone
and, uh...
there aren't a lot of people
who know what it was like to be there.
You have regrets?
I just keep wondering if I did this differently
or if I said that differently,
then maybe things could've turned out different, you know.
Yeah, I do that too.
And then there are times that I wonder if you were just...
just damned from the start.
We weren't damned from the start.
We damned ourselves through our own stupidity.
Mmm.
What do you know about Elohim City?
I know they're a bunch of racist assholes,
but other than that, you know, it's not my department,
so I don't really pay attention to it.
But this man from Elohim City, he was so angry.
[Jacob] Uh-hmm.
And I just keep thinking about the...
people protesting at the barricades at Waco
and I just feel this...
this undercurrent of rage in America.
And I think we helped create the monster
we're trying to stop.
Look, I know someone working the Elohim City case.
And, uh, I might be able to set you up.
This is blasphemy!
I won't stand for it.
I speak the truth.
God handles the consequences.
George, the Holy Spirit is feminine.
We live in a male dominated society
and it has resulted in a male dominated translation
of the Bible.
There is the Father, there is the Son,
and the Holy Spirit is mother.
[laughs]
[Vernon] Lois is right.
What did you just say?
I said, "Lois is right."
I never saw it before
but she's mentioned all over the Old Testament.
Proverbs 31:25,
"She is clothed with strength and dignity,
and she laughs without fear of the future."
Proverbs 31:10,
"She is far more precious than jewels."
Psalms 46:5,
"God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved."
-Quiet! -Proverbs 31:26,
"She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue."
Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22.
There are dozens of examples in the Bible
where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "she".
I mean, George, are you saying the Bible is wrong?
No.
Of course, I'm not saying the Bible is wrong.
tense music plays
Probably won't get you laid,
but it'll make you look more respectable.
Have you decided on the plea deal?
This is your last chance to take it.
[Clive] You should be more careful with George.
He can be pretty mean.
I'm not worried about old George Roden.
He's not the first bully I dealt with.
I'm sure he won't be the last.
"So do not fear, for I am with you.
Do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and I will help you.
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand."
Isaiah said that.
You can go hide all your life,
but then the whole world
winds up getting run by the George Rodens everywhere.
That's no way to please the Lord.
No.
You gotta show that faith.
You got to show it by standing up,
by doing what's right,
regardless of what all them bullies
tell you what they think you should do.
[Clive] It's just that George is sick in the head.
He's--he's violent.
You don't understand what he's capable of.
He doesn't know what I'm capable of either.
I'm stronger than they realize.
And so are you, Clive Doyle.
I don't give in to bullies.
It's our job to do what's right.
And it's God's job to sort out the rest.
Okay, then let's go give 'em hell.
[all chattering indistinctly]
[whispering] So, I've just had breakfast
with defendant Schroeder,
and she's going to be playing for the home team now,
so get some statements over... [indistinct]
But I just wanted to let you know for now.
[normal voice] Good morning, by the way.
[clicks tongue]
Kathy Schroeder just flipped.
She took the plea deal
and she's turning state's witness.
Kathy's going to testify against us?
Yeah.
dramatic music plays
[Bill] Now this is a simple story...
with two clear sides.
The government agents
who went in to serve a legal search warrant...
and the Branch Davidians, led by David Koresh,
who adhered to a philosophy of death.
A philosophy that led Koresh
to train his people for battle
and arm them for war,
so that when those agents approached Mount Carmel
to do their legal duty,
the defendants laid in wait with guns in their hands.
And when the agents got close enough,
the Branch Davidians opened fire,
murdering four federal officers
in cold blood.
These men and women aren't killers.
They're victims.
First, they were victimized by David Koresh,
a charismatic con man who brainwashed them
into believing he was a messiah on earth.
[scoffs]
And then they were victimized by the ATF,
who led an unnecessary
ill-advised assault on their home
that left 76 of their friends and family,
and even their children, dead.
[Ruth] You're making us look like sheep,
like we just blindly followed David
with no minds of our own.
This isn't the strategy we talked about before.
We weren't brainwashed.
We were defending something real.
We all believed in
because we saw it with our own eyes.
My husband was shot dead
and ripped to pieces
by a government tank because of those beliefs.
It's not just the four of us on trial here.
When you say that what we believe in is stupid,
you're saying that the people that we loved
who burned in that building died for nothing.
I don't give a rat's ass about your religion.
And frankly, I don't even care if you look sane.
All I care about is keeping you out of jail.
That's my only focus here.
And our defense tactics have to change,
because Kathy Schroeder flipped on you.
Before, you were all a united front,
whatever the prosecutor said happened at Mount Carmel,
was speculation.
Now, one of your own is going to corroborate their claims.
Kathy is gonna tell the jury that she passed out guns
to each and every one of you during the siege.
[scoffs] I wasn't even there.
Well, then she's gonna say you bought the guns,
make you into an arms dealer with a death wish.
She's gonna turn the rest of you into an army out for blood.
So if-if we can't say you never held a gun,
we have to make the jury believe
that you had no choice but to pick one up.
You had no choice but to protect yourselves,
because David Koresh conditioned you
to do whatever he said,
and the government charged in trying to kill your children.
But we didn't just do whatever he told us to do.
-We-we made choices. -[Dan] Yeah, look,
you can be as pissed as you want at me in here,
but when we're in that courtroom,
you need to sit there, and you need to look sorry.
You need to stop shaking your head
and-and stop glowering at the prosecutors.
And you, you need to wear a dress.
Yeah, something that makes you look softer
and more vulnerable.
I don't wear dresses.
[Dan] Well, then we'll get you one.
But you need to start doing your part.
You need to start acting like the victim.
[Lois] You need to be honest about who you are.
Proverbs speaks to this,
calling for insight,
not being afraid to ask for help,
so that we can better understand ourselves.
Vernon, what are you struggling with?
How can we help you?
I struggle with my own desires,
which I feel so strong sometimes.
What kind of desires?
Pleasure of the flesh.
Sometimes it's so strong,
I have to relieve that pressure several times a day.
[Ruth] Oh!
It's okay. It's okay.
You should feel comfortable to share.
You shouldn't feel embarrassed.
I never said I was embarrassed.
Everyone has their own struggles.
No temptation has overtaken you
that is not common to man.
God is faithful.
He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but--
But with that temptation,
He will also provide the way of escape.
Corinthians 10:13.
But when that temptation comes over me,
I wonder if she's ever known loving hands on her body,
if she's ever felt true pleasure
and I'm overcome...
with desire until I feel like I might go mad.
[Clive] You were, uh--
you were pretty honest at Bible study.
I promised myself that when I came here,
I wouldn't hold back any bit of myself...
even those little ugly parts
that I'd rather sometimes just sweep under the rug.
I--I felt the same way when I came here.
Like I wanted to give all of myself.
Kindred spirits, I guess.
[chuckles]
-[Lois] Looks good over here. -Oh, do you need me?
Not just yet.
Actually, uh, I just came over to talk to Vernon.
Uh, Vernon,
I'm getting ready to go on my yearly trip to Israel.
And I think you should join me...
to study.
dramatic music plays
Nothing would give me more pleasure
than learning right from your hands.
Good.
That's settled then.
dramatic music plays
[door creaks closed]
[Gary] Hi. Uh, excuse me. Are you Angie?
Jacob sent me.
-Oh, yes. -[Gary] Yeah.
-Gary? -Right.
-Okay. Hi. -Yeah.
So you drew the short straw, huh?
Yeah. Our informant's name is Carol Howe.
And, um, we didn't know how seriously to take her
because she's not the most reliable-seeming informant.
Uh-hmm.
How'd she wind up here in the hospital?
Did they find out she was informing and hurt her?
Actually, kind of the opposite.
No, Wild Bill actually beat her up pretty bad
-before the robbery... -Uh-hmm.
...and she got pissed, so she tipped us off
-as a way to get revenge. -Mmm.
She's not a big fan of authority,
to say the least, and, uh, she's a bit erratic.
How so?
-[Carol] God damn it! Come on! -[banging]
TV signal's shit in here, Angie.
Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary.
How's Wild Bill?
Did he ask about me?
[Angie] He lawyered up pretty quickly,
so I honestly don't know what he's asking about.
-Is he doing okay? -[Angie] Yeah,
for someone who's gonna spend ten to twenty years in prison.
I didn't mean to get him locked up that long.
But that asshole shouldn't have laid his hands on me like that.
You don't mess with a lady's face!
That's right.
[Angie] That's right.
Uh-hmm.
So Wild Bill had made some allusions
to some kind of payback against the government.
Did he ever speak to you about anything like that?
[scoffs] Gary?
I ain't some kind of narc.
I'm just a person who's sick of her boyfriend's shit.
Yeah, fair enough.
But, uh, I'd say there's a difference
between being a narc and saving the lives
of innocent people.
Ain't nobody innocent.
Really?
Well, what about Elohim City? Did you hear anyone there...
speak about some sort of planned payback?
I don't know about Elohim City.
tense music plays
Come on, Carol, this is important.
I'm trying to keep people from getting hurt.
tense music plays
Dammit.
I don't--the people you're asking
about at Elohim City,
they didn't really talk to me much, okay?
And I never heard anything specific about anything,
but I will tell you...
they talk a lot about how the government
has turned on them.
dramatic music plays
[Carol] They talk about a holy war that's coming.
And they're gonna be on the frontlines.
But that's nothing on its own.
You know, I know plenty of people who talk like that.
But the thing about Elohim City is,
it's full of people who tend to mean what they say.
[Gary] What does that mean exactly?
It means if payback is coming,
then I would guess it's gonna come from there.
Yeah.
suspenseful music plays
rock music plays
[singer] Nowhere to run to, uh, uh
Nowhere to hide