1 00:00:34,744 --> 00:00:36,162 Okay. 2 00:00:39,331 --> 00:00:41,751 "We're starting a new program in gym. 3 00:00:41,834 --> 00:00:45,755 "Mrs. Rappoport asked us each to write down a question, 4 00:00:45,838 --> 00:00:50,176 "especially anything we need to know about sex. 5 00:00:51,260 --> 00:00:53,220 "'Well, ' Mrs. Rappoport said, 6 00:00:53,304 --> 00:00:57,099 "'does anyone here know the word for stimulating our genitals?' 7 00:00:57,183 --> 00:01:01,103 "It got very quiet in the gym. 8 00:01:01,187 --> 00:01:03,272 "Then one girl spoke. 9 00:01:03,355 --> 00:01:06,942 "'I think it's called masturbation.' 10 00:01:07,026 --> 00:01:09,570 "'That's right, ' Mrs. Rappoport told us. 11 00:01:09,653 --> 00:01:12,239 "'And it's not a word you should be afraid of. 12 00:01:12,323 --> 00:01:13,991 "Let's all say it.' 13 00:01:14,074 --> 00:01:17,870 "'Masturbation, ' we said together. 14 00:01:18,954 --> 00:01:21,582 "I never knew there was a name for what I do. 15 00:01:21,665 --> 00:01:25,836 "I just thought it was my own special, good feeling. 16 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,590 Now I wonder if all my friends do it, too." 17 00:01:32,051 --> 00:01:36,138 Let's raise our hands if we masturbate, everybody. 18 00:01:36,222 --> 00:01:38,766 (laughter) 19 00:01:38,849 --> 00:01:40,434 Oh, Judy. 20 00:01:40,518 --> 00:01:43,020 Uh, do you know who Judy Blume is? 21 00:01:43,103 --> 00:01:44,664 - ALEX TREBEK: Carol. - Who is Judy Blume? 22 00:01:44,688 --> 00:01:47,942 She is America's most popular writer of children's books. 23 00:01:48,025 --> 00:01:49,961 If you've ever read Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret 24 00:01:49,985 --> 00:01:52,071 or Blubber or Superfudge... 25 00:01:52,154 --> 00:01:53,155 {\an8}(audience cheering) 26 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:55,366 {\an8}The one and only Judy Blume, everybody. 27 00:01:55,449 --> 00:01:58,410 You've sold more than 80 million books... 28 00:01:58,494 --> 00:02:00,496 REPORTER: Her 20 or so coming-of-age novels 29 00:02:00,579 --> 00:02:02,373 often address sensitive issues. 30 00:02:02,456 --> 00:02:05,000 - I feel like the Pied Piper. - (laughter) 31 00:02:05,084 --> 00:02:07,461 MOLLY RINGWALD: Everything that I learned 32 00:02:07,545 --> 00:02:10,923 about sex or thinking about sex or crushes, 33 00:02:11,006 --> 00:02:12,383 I learned from Judy. 34 00:02:12,466 --> 00:02:15,678 (gasps) Judy Blume! Oh, I own all your books. 35 00:02:15,761 --> 00:02:18,055 TAYARI JONES: It was like a look into a secret world. 36 00:02:18,138 --> 00:02:19,807 I felt like someone was being honest. 37 00:02:19,890 --> 00:02:22,059 That's a gift. That's magic. 38 00:02:22,142 --> 00:02:24,520 LENA DUNHAM: Judy's books speak about the unspeakable. 39 00:02:24,603 --> 00:02:27,523 It's the reason that her books were so complicated for people. 40 00:02:27,606 --> 00:02:30,442 She is called the most censored writer of children's books. 41 00:02:30,526 --> 00:02:33,320 A book cannot harm a child. 42 00:02:33,404 --> 00:02:36,383 AL ROKER: Any time I say your name, I have to say the whole name... Judy Blume. 43 00:02:36,407 --> 00:02:38,134 - (both laugh) - That's what the kids call me. 44 00:02:38,158 --> 00:02:40,160 - Do they really? - "Hey. Hey, Judy Blume." 45 00:02:45,165 --> 00:02:47,167 ♪ ♪ 46 00:03:03,934 --> 00:03:05,603 You know, I call it petting the books. 47 00:03:05,686 --> 00:03:08,981 {\an8}When I come in every morning, I go through it, 48 00:03:09,064 --> 00:03:13,569 {\an8}and I make sure that they're all lined up pretty. 49 00:03:13,652 --> 00:03:16,155 How to cook with weed. 50 00:03:16,238 --> 00:03:17,865 People love this section. 51 00:03:17,948 --> 00:03:19,700 CALLER: Is Judy in the store? 52 00:03:19,783 --> 00:03:21,076 She is. 53 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,747 Um, I would sneak by, I think, by 2:00. 54 00:03:24,830 --> 00:03:26,081 Okay. Well, she's here now. 55 00:03:26,165 --> 00:03:27,875 EMPLOYEE: Absolutely. See you soon. 56 00:03:27,958 --> 00:03:29,043 JUDY: Okay. 57 00:03:29,126 --> 00:03:30,294 - You live here? - Uh-huh. 58 00:03:30,377 --> 00:03:31,795 - Me, too. - (chuckles) 59 00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:35,382 I just have to tell you, your books ignited such a love of reading in me. 60 00:03:35,466 --> 00:03:37,760 (crying): You just made such a huge impact on me. 61 00:03:41,847 --> 00:03:43,432 - MAN: Are you Judy Blume? - JUDY: Hi. 62 00:03:43,515 --> 00:03:44,600 - I am. - Oh, my God. 63 00:03:44,683 --> 00:03:47,019 Those books were, like, my teenage years. 64 00:03:47,102 --> 00:03:50,898 Fudge, Superfudge. All those books, man, we loved 'em. 65 00:03:50,981 --> 00:03:53,651 That is awesome I got to meet Judy Blume. Thank you. 66 00:03:56,987 --> 00:03:59,949 JUDY: When I started to write, I... 67 00:04:00,032 --> 00:04:04,161 only identified with kids. 68 00:04:04,244 --> 00:04:06,246 Not with adults. 69 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:08,391 In your books, you generally write in the first person 70 00:04:08,415 --> 00:04:12,211 from the point of view of a young person... of a young girl, usually. 71 00:04:12,294 --> 00:04:14,630 I have done that in many of my books. 72 00:04:14,713 --> 00:04:16,882 Do you have a connection 73 00:04:16,966 --> 00:04:19,343 with your own adolescence, with your own childhood? 74 00:04:19,426 --> 00:04:21,053 Some adults forget their childhood. 75 00:04:21,136 --> 00:04:23,055 Do you still have a connection? 76 00:04:23,138 --> 00:04:24,723 Oh, yes. I have total recall. 77 00:04:24,807 --> 00:04:27,077 - You have total recall? - I mean, it sounds silly, but I... 78 00:04:27,101 --> 00:04:29,603 I have total recall from third grade on. 79 00:04:29,687 --> 00:04:31,313 Everything. 80 00:04:31,397 --> 00:04:33,166 You can remember incidents, specific incidents 81 00:04:33,190 --> 00:04:34,918 - that happened to you in grammar school? - I... 82 00:04:34,942 --> 00:04:36,527 I can put myself back there. 83 00:04:36,610 --> 00:04:37,945 I know exactly how I felt. 84 00:04:38,028 --> 00:04:39,780 I know what I was thinking. Yes. 85 00:04:42,992 --> 00:04:46,870 I didn't grow up thinking, "I'm going to be a writer." 86 00:04:46,954 --> 00:04:50,249 But I always had stories inside my head. 87 00:04:50,332 --> 00:04:52,376 ♪ ♪ 88 00:04:57,506 --> 00:04:59,758 I grew up in Elizabeth, New Jersey. 89 00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:06,015 I was seven years old when World War II ended in 1945. 90 00:05:06,098 --> 00:05:07,099 (horn honks) 91 00:05:07,182 --> 00:05:10,477 If you went to the movie theater, you saw newsreels. 92 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,734 I knew about this thing 93 00:05:16,817 --> 00:05:19,611 that I really didn't understand. 94 00:05:22,031 --> 00:05:25,451 My brother David was four years older than me. 95 00:05:25,534 --> 00:05:28,787 My mother would tell us the war happened 96 00:05:28,871 --> 00:05:32,958 very far away and it's not coming here and we're safe. 97 00:05:34,835 --> 00:05:38,297 Did I believe that? I don't know. 98 00:05:38,380 --> 00:05:41,258 I mean, I was a Jewish girl, 99 00:05:41,341 --> 00:05:45,512 and this happened because you were a Jew. 100 00:05:47,431 --> 00:05:51,018 I was an anxious child. 101 00:05:51,101 --> 00:05:55,898 I felt adults kept secrets from the kids. 102 00:05:55,981 --> 00:05:58,025 I hated those secrets. 103 00:05:58,108 --> 00:06:02,738 I-I think I had to make up what those secrets were. 104 00:06:02,821 --> 00:06:05,407 That fueled my imagination. 105 00:06:07,576 --> 00:06:11,580 {\an8}"'Let's play Love and Romance today, ' Alice said. 106 00:06:11,663 --> 00:06:16,001 "'Let's play War instead, ' Sally suggested. 107 00:06:16,085 --> 00:06:19,922 "'Oh, I'm sick of playing War, ' Alice said. 108 00:06:20,005 --> 00:06:22,382 "'I always wind up being Hitler!' 109 00:06:22,466 --> 00:06:25,594 "'Well, you can't expect me to be Hitler, ' Sally said. 110 00:06:25,677 --> 00:06:27,179 "'I'm Jewish.' 111 00:06:27,262 --> 00:06:31,683 "'But if you don't want to play War I have another idea... 112 00:06:31,767 --> 00:06:34,311 "'We can play Concentration Camp instead. 113 00:06:34,394 --> 00:06:38,857 And nobody has to be Hitler because he is away on business.'" 114 00:06:41,235 --> 00:06:43,153 I created characters. 115 00:06:43,237 --> 00:06:45,948 I like making up backstories for them. 116 00:06:46,031 --> 00:06:48,033 I like knowing who they were. 117 00:06:48,117 --> 00:06:52,037 Of course, they didn't exist, except in my imagination. 118 00:06:53,539 --> 00:06:56,125 My mother was always reading. 119 00:06:56,208 --> 00:07:00,671 She took me to the library every week when I was very, very small. 120 00:07:05,634 --> 00:07:07,344 Madeline... 121 00:07:09,763 --> 00:07:12,307 All these wonderful Madeline books. 122 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:20,149 My mother, she let me sit on the floor and pull books out 123 00:07:20,232 --> 00:07:22,317 and look at them and sniff them. 124 00:07:22,401 --> 00:07:24,444 I love to sniff books. I still do. 125 00:07:25,612 --> 00:07:30,117 And my mother, who worried about everything... everything... 126 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,328 didn't seem to worry about what I was reading. 127 00:07:33,412 --> 00:07:36,999 But we could never talk about anything. 128 00:07:37,082 --> 00:07:40,169 I knew never to ask her personal questions. 129 00:07:40,252 --> 00:07:42,421 I knew I wasn't gonna get an answer. 130 00:07:44,590 --> 00:07:47,759 My father was the nurturer. 131 00:07:47,843 --> 00:07:49,553 He cut the toenails. 132 00:07:49,636 --> 00:07:52,055 He took our temperatures if we were sick. 133 00:07:52,139 --> 00:07:54,975 I adored my father. 134 00:07:55,058 --> 00:08:00,689 He tried to raise me to want an adventurous life 135 00:08:00,772 --> 00:08:03,275 and to be adventurous and to take chances. 136 00:08:03,358 --> 00:08:04,818 (lively chatter) 137 00:08:04,902 --> 00:08:09,573 My father was the youngest of seven siblings. 138 00:08:09,656 --> 00:08:13,744 None of the seven siblings lived to be 60. 139 00:08:13,827 --> 00:08:17,873 I worried terribly that he would die young. 140 00:08:17,956 --> 00:08:21,376 And I had to pray so hard with my little prayers 141 00:08:21,460 --> 00:08:25,714 and make so many bargains with God to protect him. 142 00:08:27,174 --> 00:08:32,512 What a burden to feel that you're this little kid and you have to... 143 00:08:32,596 --> 00:08:37,267 it's up to you to keep your beloved father safe. 144 00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:42,981 As I got older, I never really confided 145 00:08:43,065 --> 00:08:47,694 the things that were deep down inside. 146 00:08:49,863 --> 00:08:51,823 Well, how do you like it? 147 00:08:51,907 --> 00:08:55,744 - There's only one word for it: terrific. - (chuckles) 148 00:08:56,828 --> 00:08:58,830 JUDY: The '50s was just... 149 00:08:58,914 --> 00:09:01,458 so much was about pretend. 150 00:09:02,459 --> 00:09:05,337 Pretend we're happy when we're not. 151 00:09:06,338 --> 00:09:09,591 Pretend everything is great when it isn't. 152 00:09:11,927 --> 00:09:15,514 If there was one thing my mother said to me always, it was: 153 00:09:15,597 --> 00:09:18,016 "Be a good girl, Judy." 154 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:19,768 JOANNE STERN: She was a good girl. 155 00:09:19,851 --> 00:09:22,396 {\an8}She was very cute, very pretty. 156 00:09:22,479 --> 00:09:24,022 {\an8}Had beautiful clothes. 157 00:09:24,106 --> 00:09:25,816 {\an8}She was very thin. 158 00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:28,902 We met in the seventh grade. 159 00:09:28,986 --> 00:09:32,406 There was a great group of girls in that class. 160 00:09:32,489 --> 00:09:36,493 JUDY: We talked endlessly about everything, 161 00:09:36,576 --> 00:09:38,203 and we're still best friends today. 162 00:09:38,287 --> 00:09:40,664 Look at that. 163 00:09:40,747 --> 00:09:44,209 This is Joanne and Judy and Mary. 164 00:09:44,293 --> 00:09:46,253 Oh, my God, look how young we were. 165 00:09:46,336 --> 00:09:49,006 {\an8}- JUDY: So, in ninth grade... - MARY: Yes, Fred. 166 00:09:49,089 --> 00:09:52,217 {\an8}...we were both in love briefly with the same boy. 167 00:09:52,301 --> 00:09:54,928 We used to talk on the phone after we went out with him 168 00:09:55,012 --> 00:09:57,347 and say how many kisses, how many times. 169 00:09:57,431 --> 00:09:58,932 Yes, that's what we did. 170 00:09:59,016 --> 00:10:03,270 Yes. I mean, he got us hot at a very early age, I think. 171 00:10:03,353 --> 00:10:05,314 - (laughs) - That's what I think. Me anyway. 172 00:10:05,397 --> 00:10:06,940 I don't know about you, but... 173 00:10:07,024 --> 00:10:10,068 'Cause I was such a fucking prude, I guess. 174 00:10:10,152 --> 00:10:12,988 We were not that sweet, but we... nobody knew. 175 00:10:13,071 --> 00:10:14,239 (both laugh) 176 00:10:15,324 --> 00:10:20,996 JUDY: I was a good girl with a bad girl lurking just inside. 177 00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:30,422 But I knew what was expected of me. 178 00:10:30,505 --> 00:10:34,343 Go to college, get your degree in education 179 00:10:34,426 --> 00:10:38,305 in case you ever need a job... God forbid you ever have to work... 180 00:10:38,388 --> 00:10:41,183 and while you're in college 181 00:10:41,266 --> 00:10:44,895 is when you have to find the boy you're going to marry. 182 00:10:44,978 --> 00:10:47,773 ♪ ♪ 183 00:10:49,483 --> 00:10:51,860 I went to NYU. 184 00:10:52,861 --> 00:10:56,073 I did meet my husband 185 00:10:56,156 --> 00:10:58,784 when I was a sophomore. 186 00:10:58,867 --> 00:11:01,870 I didn't know who I was or what I wanted, 187 00:11:01,953 --> 00:11:03,872 and he was already a lawyer. 188 00:11:03,955 --> 00:11:06,792 I thought that was... (sighs) so exciting. 189 00:11:06,875 --> 00:11:09,127 I mean, you know, I was marrying a grown-up. 190 00:11:10,212 --> 00:11:12,881 And I was gonna be a grown-up, too. 191 00:11:12,964 --> 00:11:16,635 I even bought a girdle to prove it. (chuckles) 192 00:11:16,718 --> 00:11:19,388 A mint green girdle. Mm-hmm. 193 00:11:23,517 --> 00:11:26,019 But we got married under 194 00:11:26,103 --> 00:11:30,565 very difficult circumstances that changed my whole life. 195 00:11:33,568 --> 00:11:37,155 My father had a sudden, massive heart attack, 196 00:11:37,239 --> 00:11:39,491 and he died. 197 00:11:40,659 --> 00:11:45,789 I was married five weeks after my father's death. 198 00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:50,502 It was a terrible way to start a marriage. 199 00:11:52,546 --> 00:11:57,634 I couldn't really grieve because I married a man 200 00:11:57,717 --> 00:12:01,972 who, like my mother, never talked about feelings. 201 00:12:05,892 --> 00:12:10,439 So, by the time I started to write, I really had a lot to get out. 202 00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:14,234 ("Every Day I Have the Blues" by Jeanne Dee playing) 203 00:12:16,194 --> 00:12:18,780 ♪ Gonna pack up ♪ 204 00:12:18,864 --> 00:12:21,658 ♪ Move on down the line... ♪ 205 00:12:21,741 --> 00:12:25,829 In the '60s, I was living on a cul-de-sac in New Jersey, 206 00:12:25,912 --> 00:12:31,001 and I don't think any woman on that cul-de-sac worked. 207 00:12:31,084 --> 00:12:33,003 We all had babies. 208 00:12:33,086 --> 00:12:35,464 And I liked having babies. 209 00:12:35,547 --> 00:12:37,340 {\an8}I had two children. 210 00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:42,554 But I think, from the time I got married, I never felt that I fit in. 211 00:12:43,555 --> 00:12:46,641 I played at being a married lady. 212 00:12:48,852 --> 00:12:53,899 I went from being my parents' little girl to John's little wife, 213 00:12:53,982 --> 00:12:57,569 and I was lost. 214 00:12:57,652 --> 00:13:02,824 I had all this creative energy that I didn't know where to put. 215 00:13:02,908 --> 00:13:08,371 So, when Randy was about four and Larry was two, I decided... 216 00:13:09,539 --> 00:13:11,041 I had to do something. 217 00:13:11,124 --> 00:13:13,043 {\an8}I wanted a career very much. 218 00:13:13,126 --> 00:13:15,754 {\an8}(laughing): It was before women's lib, 219 00:13:15,837 --> 00:13:17,923 {\an8}but I knew that I wanted a career. 220 00:13:18,006 --> 00:13:20,091 And I wanted to be at home with the kids. 221 00:13:20,175 --> 00:13:25,096 And I-I think an awful lot of mothers that read to their children all the time think, 222 00:13:25,180 --> 00:13:26,806 "Oh, well, I'll do that, too." 223 00:13:26,890 --> 00:13:31,353 And what I started out doing was terrible, um, 224 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:33,188 imitation Dr. Seuss. 225 00:13:33,271 --> 00:13:34,814 That's what I'll call it. 226 00:13:36,483 --> 00:13:38,485 I would sit down and illustrate them, 227 00:13:38,568 --> 00:13:41,071 and I'm definitely not an illustrator. 228 00:13:42,614 --> 00:13:45,450 "You Mom, you? You were a kid? 229 00:13:45,534 --> 00:13:47,661 "Oh please tell us what you did! 230 00:13:47,744 --> 00:13:52,832 "Okay, okay, I'll tell you all the things I did when I was small. 231 00:13:52,916 --> 00:13:56,002 "I sucked my thumb and loved a bear. 232 00:13:56,086 --> 00:13:59,172 One time, I cut off all my hair." 233 00:13:59,256 --> 00:14:03,718 Every night, I made them up in my head while I was doing the dinner dishes. 234 00:14:04,886 --> 00:14:07,430 John said, "If you want to do this, it's okay with me 235 00:14:07,514 --> 00:14:11,059 "as long as it doesn't interfere with our lives. 236 00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:14,479 "I mean, you take care of the kids and you manage the house, and... 237 00:14:14,563 --> 00:14:17,023 "in your spare time, if you want to do this, 238 00:14:17,107 --> 00:14:18,525 okay." 239 00:14:18,608 --> 00:14:23,196 You know, I took it seriously, but he would joke with people and say, 240 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,117 "I only have to buy Judy pencils and paper, and she's happy. 241 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,496 I don't have to worry about a charge card at Saks Fifth Avenue." 242 00:14:31,580 --> 00:14:35,709 I decided that I would do this or I would never really find out, 243 00:14:35,792 --> 00:14:39,879 could I possibly get published or was I just a joke? 244 00:14:41,172 --> 00:14:44,009 I wrote every day when my kids were at school. 245 00:14:44,092 --> 00:14:45,427 You know, years went by. 246 00:14:48,221 --> 00:14:52,601 I would send things out to different publishing companies, 247 00:14:52,684 --> 00:14:54,269 and they were rejected. 248 00:14:55,353 --> 00:14:58,106 The first rejection, I cried in the closet. 249 00:14:58,189 --> 00:15:00,470 The second rejection, it's like, "Well, wait till they see 250 00:15:00,525 --> 00:15:02,736 what I'm gonna send next." 251 00:15:02,819 --> 00:15:05,864 I just kept doing it and doing it. 252 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:12,454 My husband met someone who wrote successful children's books 253 00:15:12,537 --> 00:15:14,080 and sent him one of mine. 254 00:15:14,164 --> 00:15:16,833 And then came this letter. 255 00:15:16,916 --> 00:15:19,044 Oh, that letter. 256 00:15:20,128 --> 00:15:24,257 It was like, "Get out your handkerchief and get ready to cry." 257 00:15:25,717 --> 00:15:28,345 "You can't write," basically. 258 00:15:28,428 --> 00:15:32,557 And yeah, I cried a little, but then he got me fired up. 259 00:15:32,641 --> 00:15:36,353 It's like, "I will show that guy. 260 00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:40,565 I will show him that I can... I do have something." 261 00:15:41,650 --> 00:15:44,778 I gave up on the idea of the picture books. 262 00:15:44,861 --> 00:15:49,115 Why am I doing this when what I really love to read is 263 00:15:49,199 --> 00:15:51,326 stories, novels? 264 00:15:51,409 --> 00:15:56,331 There was a new young publishing company called Bradbury Press, 265 00:15:56,414 --> 00:16:00,126 and they were looking for realistic fiction 266 00:16:00,210 --> 00:16:03,296 for middle-grade kids. 267 00:16:03,380 --> 00:16:06,633 I thought, "Well, Judy, this is gonna be your chance." 268 00:16:06,716 --> 00:16:08,843 ♪ ♪ 269 00:16:11,471 --> 00:16:15,642 I sent a manuscript called Iggie's House to them, 270 00:16:15,725 --> 00:16:19,062 and somehow they found something in it worthwhile. 271 00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:21,106 I still don't know how that ever happened. 272 00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:25,527 I just think it's my good luck, but they wanted to work with me. 273 00:16:25,610 --> 00:16:26,861 (laughing) 274 00:16:26,945 --> 00:16:30,198 I was cuckoo with excitement. 275 00:16:30,281 --> 00:16:34,327 My first advance was $350. 276 00:16:34,411 --> 00:16:37,497 I bought myself a new electric typewriter. 277 00:16:38,581 --> 00:16:41,751 I was learning. I had written Green Kangaroo. 278 00:16:41,835 --> 00:16:44,754 I wrote Iggie's House. 279 00:16:44,838 --> 00:16:48,550 But these were stories told from the outside 280 00:16:48,633 --> 00:16:50,635 rather than from inside. 281 00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:55,390 It wasn't really from here, not until I wrote Margaret. 282 00:16:59,102 --> 00:17:02,981 JOANNE: I was visiting my parents with my new baby. 283 00:17:03,064 --> 00:17:07,444 It was summer of 1969, 284 00:17:07,527 --> 00:17:09,529 and Judy came to visit. 285 00:17:09,612 --> 00:17:12,949 {\an8}And she said, "I'm writing a story 286 00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:16,161 {\an8}about a little girl who talks to God." 287 00:17:17,787 --> 00:17:20,248 JUDY: Margaret is an 11-year-old girl 288 00:17:20,331 --> 00:17:24,711 who has just moved to a new town and she wants to fit in. 289 00:17:24,794 --> 00:17:27,547 She's thinking about puberty, 290 00:17:27,630 --> 00:17:32,010 and she finds a confidant in God. 291 00:17:33,344 --> 00:17:35,722 I felt, "I need to write this book." 292 00:17:35,805 --> 00:17:38,057 I remember, being that age, 293 00:17:38,141 --> 00:17:41,770 I was fascinated by the idea 294 00:17:41,853 --> 00:17:44,814 of changing bodies and breast development for me 295 00:17:44,898 --> 00:17:46,399 and getting my period. 296 00:17:46,483 --> 00:17:48,443 I was just obsessed by it. 297 00:17:48,526 --> 00:17:54,032 I wanted to write the truth, the reality of being that age. 298 00:17:56,159 --> 00:17:57,327 (typewriter clacking) 299 00:17:57,410 --> 00:18:00,330 I wrote a first draft so fast in like six weeks... 300 00:18:03,166 --> 00:18:06,878 ...and worked with the best editor in the whole world, Dick Jackson. 301 00:18:07,962 --> 00:18:10,715 "October 14, 1969. 302 00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:14,677 "Dear Dick, I am having the best time writing this book. 303 00:18:14,761 --> 00:18:18,097 "It is terribly controversial, I think. 304 00:18:18,181 --> 00:18:21,267 "It deals with sixth-grade girls, religion, menstruation, 305 00:18:21,351 --> 00:18:24,020 "bras, boys and other goodies. 306 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:27,148 But I think girl readers are going to love it." 307 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:34,030 Dick Jackson decided to publish the book, 308 00:18:34,113 --> 00:18:37,242 and that totally changed everything. 309 00:18:38,368 --> 00:18:39,928 "Are you there God? It's me, Margaret." 310 00:18:39,994 --> 00:18:42,163 "Are you there God? It's me, Margaret." 311 00:18:42,247 --> 00:18:44,290 "Are you there God? It's me, Margaret." 312 00:18:44,374 --> 00:18:45,667 JUDY: "Are you there God? 313 00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:47,836 "It's me, Margaret. 314 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,297 "Gretchen, my friend, got her period. 315 00:18:51,381 --> 00:18:53,258 "I'm so jealous God. 316 00:18:53,341 --> 00:18:56,511 "I hate myself for being so jealous, but I am. 317 00:18:56,594 --> 00:18:59,347 "I wish you'd help me just a little. 318 00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:02,183 "Nancy's sure she's going to get it soon, too. 319 00:19:02,267 --> 00:19:05,019 "And if I'm last I don't know what I'll do. 320 00:19:05,103 --> 00:19:09,190 Oh please God. I just want to be normal." 321 00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:14,362 I immediately had that seismic sort of recognition of like, "Yes. 322 00:19:14,445 --> 00:19:17,657 {\an8}"You are as obsessed with your friends as I am, 323 00:19:17,740 --> 00:19:19,367 {\an8}"and so I trust you. 324 00:19:19,450 --> 00:19:23,121 And wherever you're going, I'm kind of like down to come with you." 325 00:19:23,204 --> 00:19:25,665 It felt like Margaret was someone I knew. 326 00:19:25,748 --> 00:19:29,294 {\an8}Here I was, this flat-chested girl from Brooklyn, um, 327 00:19:29,377 --> 00:19:33,381 {\an8}who always felt a little bit outside of things. 328 00:19:33,464 --> 00:19:37,719 It's that period where you are too old to be a child 329 00:19:37,802 --> 00:19:40,179 and too young to be a teenager, 330 00:19:40,263 --> 00:19:44,350 and yet you're existing in both those worlds at the same time 331 00:19:44,434 --> 00:19:48,021 and not having a sense of where you belong. 332 00:19:49,731 --> 00:19:55,570 The bittersweetness of that unbelonging is so a part of becoming an adolescent 333 00:19:55,653 --> 00:19:57,947 and becoming an adult. 334 00:19:58,031 --> 00:20:02,869 11, 12 is such a turning point. 335 00:20:02,952 --> 00:20:06,539 You're on the cusp, when things are gonna change 336 00:20:06,623 --> 00:20:10,877 and things are gonna happen and you still don't know everything 337 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,171 and you're curious. 338 00:20:13,254 --> 00:20:17,216 I can remember once opening up my World Book Encyclopedia to "S" 339 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:19,886 and reading, and there it was... "sex," it said. 340 00:20:19,969 --> 00:20:23,056 And then going through it furiously, and it didn't tell me anything. 341 00:20:23,139 --> 00:20:26,559 I mean, it talked about plants and things, and I was so furious. 342 00:20:26,643 --> 00:20:28,811 I slammed it shut and threw it across the room. 343 00:20:28,895 --> 00:20:30,229 I was just really angry. 344 00:20:30,313 --> 00:20:33,608 And when I got to be in fifth and sixth grade, 345 00:20:33,691 --> 00:20:35,902 my friends started to develop, 346 00:20:35,985 --> 00:20:38,112 get breasts, get their periods. 347 00:20:38,196 --> 00:20:40,657 I wanted that more than anything in the whole world. 348 00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:42,659 Oh, boy, I even lied. 349 00:20:42,742 --> 00:20:47,747 I lied in sixth grade and said I had my period 350 00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:49,332 because my friends did. 351 00:20:49,415 --> 00:20:53,044 I wore, uh, what were then called a sanitary napkin 352 00:20:53,127 --> 00:20:55,171 that I got from my mother's closet. 353 00:20:55,254 --> 00:20:57,715 I wore it to school so they could pat my backside 354 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:00,593 and feel it and know that I had it. 355 00:21:00,677 --> 00:21:03,054 I, too, had my period. 356 00:21:03,137 --> 00:21:04,639 (chuckling): Total lie. 357 00:21:06,015 --> 00:21:09,811 ANNA KONKLE: It just felt like there was this treasure trove of true experiences 358 00:21:09,894 --> 00:21:13,564 that on some level we were told were wrong or shameful. 359 00:21:13,648 --> 00:21:17,110 {\an8}And there's so much magic and terror in that time, 360 00:21:17,193 --> 00:21:19,278 {\an8}which makes it funny and also resonant. 361 00:21:19,362 --> 00:21:23,282 To wake up one day and you're bleeding, 362 00:21:23,366 --> 00:21:26,411 you know, from your vagina, like, that's wild. 363 00:21:26,494 --> 00:21:28,621 {\an8}I remember being bereft 364 00:21:28,705 --> 00:21:31,708 {\an8}because my best friend had gotten it first 365 00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:33,710 {\an8}and literally, like, hurling something 366 00:21:33,793 --> 00:21:35,795 {\an8}across a room in a rage when I found out. 367 00:21:35,878 --> 00:21:38,172 And I didn't get my period until I was almost 15, 368 00:21:38,256 --> 00:21:42,927 so I was really feeling like I was, I mean, deeply behind the curve. 369 00:21:43,011 --> 00:21:47,140 And then about a month in, I was like, "Uh, can we send this back?" 370 00:21:47,223 --> 00:21:49,767 {\an8}I got my first period at a track meet 371 00:21:49,851 --> 00:21:52,437 {\an8}in yellow and white short shorts. 372 00:21:53,521 --> 00:21:56,149 'Cause that's where you want to get it for the first time. 373 00:21:56,232 --> 00:22:00,153 Just, like, full blood and a sweatshirt tied around your waist. 374 00:22:00,236 --> 00:22:02,071 I mean, we literally, when I was growing up, 375 00:22:02,155 --> 00:22:05,199 had commercials about how embarrassed people were by their period 376 00:22:05,283 --> 00:22:08,363 and how they had to leave the party with a sweatshirt tied around their waist. 377 00:22:08,411 --> 00:22:09,871 It happens to every girl. 378 00:22:09,954 --> 00:22:12,040 - What happens to every girl? - Womanhood. 379 00:22:12,123 --> 00:22:13,833 Oh, you mean the curse. 380 00:22:13,916 --> 00:22:16,210 - What do you call it? - The curse. 381 00:22:16,294 --> 00:22:18,212 You know, being unwell. 382 00:22:18,296 --> 00:22:20,840 How periods have been portrayed in the media 383 00:22:20,923 --> 00:22:23,593 is, in general, poor. 384 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:24,927 Help me! 385 00:22:25,011 --> 00:22:26,888 KONKLE: Very traumatic, very sad. 386 00:22:26,971 --> 00:22:28,598 (screams) Oh, my God! 387 00:22:28,681 --> 00:22:32,393 It was something that was whispered about, and there was a shame to it. 388 00:22:32,477 --> 00:22:36,814 And I think that what Judy did was show that this is nothing to be ashamed. 389 00:22:36,898 --> 00:22:39,025 Like, this is something to be celebrated. 390 00:22:40,109 --> 00:22:43,112 And it became this hot book because our friends were reading it 391 00:22:43,196 --> 00:22:45,490 and their friends were reading it. 392 00:22:45,573 --> 00:22:48,076 KONKLE: It was the first book that I had read 393 00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:52,038 about a girl wanting to grow boobs and the myths around 394 00:22:52,121 --> 00:22:53,748 how to get them and what to do. 395 00:22:53,831 --> 00:22:55,541 "'But look at the size of her. 396 00:22:55,625 --> 00:22:58,211 {\an8}"They're huge!' Janie said. 397 00:22:58,294 --> 00:23:01,714 {\an8}"'Do you suppose we'll look like that at eighteen?' Gretchen asked. 398 00:23:01,798 --> 00:23:04,634 "Our meeting ended with 50 rounds of 399 00:23:04,717 --> 00:23:08,888 'We must... we must... we must increase our bust!'" 400 00:23:09,972 --> 00:23:11,140 I love it. 401 00:23:11,224 --> 00:23:15,061 {\an8}Uh, it was explaining things that were foreign to me, uh, quite frankly. 402 00:23:15,144 --> 00:23:17,522 {\an8}Uh, but it was also speaking to me 403 00:23:17,605 --> 00:23:19,690 {\an8}about stuff that I was thinking about 404 00:23:19,774 --> 00:23:23,903 in terms of religion, um, and where you fit in the world. 405 00:23:23,986 --> 00:23:28,241 And there was this moment where... "Wow, like, Judy's talking to me." 406 00:23:29,534 --> 00:23:32,912 JUDY: "Are you there God? It's me, Margaret. 407 00:23:32,995 --> 00:23:34,914 "I've been looking for you God. 408 00:23:34,997 --> 00:23:38,000 "I looked in temple. I looked in church. 409 00:23:38,084 --> 00:23:41,420 "And today, I looked for you when I wanted to confess. 410 00:23:41,504 --> 00:23:43,506 "But you weren't there. 411 00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:45,591 "I didn't feel you at all. 412 00:23:45,675 --> 00:23:49,011 "Not the way I do when I talk to you at night. 413 00:23:49,095 --> 00:23:53,349 Why God? Why do I only feel you when I'm alone?" 414 00:23:55,393 --> 00:24:00,022 It's a kid negotiating their relationship with God. 415 00:24:00,106 --> 00:24:03,484 I mean, it-it's just like... it's so huge, actually. 416 00:24:03,568 --> 00:24:06,487 Oh, yeah, this child protagonist contains multitudes. 417 00:24:06,571 --> 00:24:11,200 Like, of course this person can navigate, like, huge questions 418 00:24:11,284 --> 00:24:13,494 about, like, existence and God 419 00:24:13,578 --> 00:24:17,790 while also wanting her period and, like, doing daily bust exercises 420 00:24:17,874 --> 00:24:20,084 and also feeling some type of way about her friends. 421 00:24:20,168 --> 00:24:22,420 Like, of course. 422 00:24:23,504 --> 00:24:25,840 PAT SCALES: I knew the minute I read Margaret 423 00:24:25,923 --> 00:24:28,217 that kids would flock to this book. 424 00:24:28,301 --> 00:24:31,971 {\an8}The realism that-that was available prior to Judy 425 00:24:32,054 --> 00:24:34,056 {\an8}was not realistic at all. 426 00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:38,561 (laughing): A lot of people thought kids should be reading cute animal stories 427 00:24:38,644 --> 00:24:44,066 or things like syrupy sweet romance books. 428 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:45,985 So, when you sit down 429 00:24:46,068 --> 00:24:47,737 with a book like Margaret 430 00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:51,407 and you've never seen anything like that before in your life, 431 00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:53,117 that's life-changing. 432 00:24:53,201 --> 00:24:55,203 - ♪ ♪ - (indistinct chatter) 433 00:24:55,286 --> 00:24:56,913 REPORTER: Look at this. 434 00:24:56,996 --> 00:25:00,333 This bookstore in Denver has had a lot of autograph parties for a lot of authors 435 00:25:00,416 --> 00:25:03,586 but never attracted this many people. 436 00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:07,548 Writing Margaret gave me my sense of who I was 437 00:25:07,632 --> 00:25:10,009 and what I might be able to do. 438 00:25:10,092 --> 00:25:13,638 So, the day I sent Margaret off to the publisher, 439 00:25:13,721 --> 00:25:16,599 I sat down the next day and started 440 00:25:16,682 --> 00:25:19,018 what would become Then Again, Maybe I Won't. 441 00:25:19,101 --> 00:25:21,687 It was like, "Okay, I've been a 12-year-old girl. 442 00:25:21,771 --> 00:25:24,565 Now I'm gonna be a 12-year-old boy." 443 00:25:24,649 --> 00:25:27,360 And I never stopped. I never stopped. 444 00:25:27,443 --> 00:25:32,323 And the next few years, I went from book to book to book to book to book. 445 00:25:32,406 --> 00:25:34,367 REPORTER: You read other books by other authors 446 00:25:34,450 --> 00:25:38,037 that are written primarily for kids your age... what, 11, 12, 13? 447 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:39,413 - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. 448 00:25:39,497 --> 00:25:42,750 - How did hers compare with others? - They're much better. 449 00:25:42,833 --> 00:25:45,229 - She knows how kids our age act. - She-she knows what kids are, 450 00:25:45,253 --> 00:25:46,973 and she knows what grown-ups are, and she... 451 00:25:47,046 --> 00:25:48,941 - She knows how they cope with each other. - Yeah. 452 00:25:48,965 --> 00:25:52,635 REPORTER: Does she understand you better than your parents do? 453 00:25:52,718 --> 00:25:54,595 The way she writes, I think she does. 454 00:25:54,679 --> 00:25:58,891 It really didn't take off until the books went into paperback 455 00:25:58,975 --> 00:26:01,227 so the children could afford to buy them. 456 00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:05,982 Success was slow and sweet, and I think probably that was healthy 457 00:26:06,065 --> 00:26:08,067 because it kept me at home writing. 458 00:26:08,150 --> 00:26:11,654 ♪ ♪ 459 00:26:11,737 --> 00:26:15,283 This writing had so changed my life. 460 00:26:15,366 --> 00:26:19,036 It had given me something of my own. 461 00:26:20,204 --> 00:26:24,417 I don't know if I could really celebrate that with anyone. 462 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:25,751 My kids, yes. 463 00:26:25,835 --> 00:26:28,796 They were so young they didn't even know what any of it meant, but... 464 00:26:28,879 --> 00:26:30,172 (lively chatter) 465 00:26:30,256 --> 00:26:33,801 I remember going to a party on my street. 466 00:26:33,884 --> 00:26:37,722 I felt that the other women 467 00:26:37,805 --> 00:26:40,391 weren't necessarily wishing me well. 468 00:26:40,474 --> 00:26:43,602 It, like... "Who does she think she is?" 469 00:26:43,686 --> 00:26:45,855 "When are you gonna write a real book?" 470 00:26:45,938 --> 00:26:49,859 That was said to me for years that I wrote children's books. 471 00:26:49,942 --> 00:26:52,236 "So, when are you gonna write a real book, Judy?" 472 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,488 Like... 473 00:26:54,572 --> 00:26:57,325 how do you answer that question? 474 00:26:57,408 --> 00:26:59,493 I am writing real books. 475 00:26:59,577 --> 00:27:01,829 ♪ ♪ 476 00:27:06,584 --> 00:27:10,546 Your fantasies as a writer are: 477 00:27:10,629 --> 00:27:14,216 Someday something that I write will be published. 478 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:19,930 And maybe someday I'll hear from somebody who reads one of these books. 479 00:27:20,014 --> 00:27:23,142 I mean, this is fantasy. And then the letters 480 00:27:23,225 --> 00:27:28,230 started coming, and it was something that I never expected. 481 00:27:28,314 --> 00:27:31,484 You get a thousand to 2,000 letters every month... 482 00:27:31,567 --> 00:27:34,153 - I do. Yes. - ...fr-from kids who've read your books, 483 00:27:34,236 --> 00:27:36,072 and they have questions. 484 00:27:36,155 --> 00:27:38,425 - What kind of questions do they ask? - Yeah. Well, they're wonderful letters. 485 00:27:38,449 --> 00:27:41,535 {\an8}It's not so much questions as a sharing of feelings. 486 00:27:41,619 --> 00:27:45,039 And they write about their innermost feelings. 487 00:27:50,002 --> 00:27:52,922 Oh, my God. This is so exciting. 488 00:27:54,048 --> 00:27:56,384 All the children who wrote. 489 00:27:58,803 --> 00:28:01,430 I've always been emotional about their letters, 490 00:28:01,514 --> 00:28:05,768 that they would pour their hearts out in this way. 491 00:28:06,852 --> 00:28:10,856 CHILD: "Dear Judy, Please send me the facts of life in number order." 492 00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:15,528 CHILD 2: "Dear Judy, I wanted to tell you that I have a million problems." 493 00:28:15,611 --> 00:28:17,947 CHILD 3: "Today was the worst day in my entire life. 494 00:28:18,030 --> 00:28:21,117 Everything at school is going wrong." 495 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,245 It isn't easy being a little kid. 496 00:28:24,328 --> 00:28:26,247 It's really not. 497 00:28:27,957 --> 00:28:30,376 Kids opened up to me in a way 498 00:28:30,459 --> 00:28:34,380 that I think they felt they couldn't to their parents. 499 00:28:34,463 --> 00:28:37,341 "Dear Judy, I'm in fifth grade and developing. 500 00:28:37,425 --> 00:28:39,260 "It is kind of embarrassing. 501 00:28:39,343 --> 00:28:42,430 Without your books, I would be nowhere." 502 00:28:43,931 --> 00:28:48,477 I mean, it's just so much easier to open yourself up 503 00:28:48,561 --> 00:28:51,063 to someone that you're never gonna see. 504 00:28:51,147 --> 00:28:54,358 You know, it's a stranger, and yet it's not a stranger. 505 00:28:54,442 --> 00:28:57,236 You feel connected to this person. 506 00:28:58,821 --> 00:29:02,783 LORRIE KIM: In fourth grade, the girls, they seemed so sophisticated to me. 507 00:29:02,867 --> 00:29:06,745 {\an8}They were all, you know, cute white Jewish girls, 508 00:29:06,829 --> 00:29:09,957 {\an8}and, you know, I was, like, the only Korean girl, 509 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,001 (laughing): and I didn't know anything. 510 00:29:12,084 --> 00:29:15,296 I remember the word they used was "naive" 511 00:29:15,379 --> 00:29:17,381 and they kind of shook their heads sadly. 512 00:29:17,465 --> 00:29:20,634 And they said, "You know what she needs? She needs to read Judy Blume." 513 00:29:21,719 --> 00:29:25,764 One of my classmates said that she had written a fan letter to Judy Blume 514 00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:30,936 and gotten back a signed brochure, and my mind exploded. 515 00:29:31,020 --> 00:29:32,897 Like, you can just write to her? 516 00:29:32,980 --> 00:29:35,107 JUDY: Oh, Lorrie, Lorrie. 517 00:29:37,443 --> 00:29:41,530 I can still remember a part of Lorrie's first letter. 518 00:29:41,614 --> 00:29:45,242 "Why do you write so freely about periods? 519 00:29:45,326 --> 00:29:48,329 "In our class, whenever a boy goes near the 'B' shelves, 520 00:29:48,412 --> 00:29:51,081 "I quake in my shoes 521 00:29:51,165 --> 00:29:54,793 lest he sees something he is not supposed to see." 522 00:29:54,877 --> 00:29:58,464 So Louisa May Alcott. I just love it. 523 00:29:58,547 --> 00:30:01,675 LORRIE: "First of all, how do you know all our little secrets? 524 00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:03,886 "In reading Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret, 525 00:30:03,969 --> 00:30:06,555 "I found that Margaret's problems were very like my own, 526 00:30:06,639 --> 00:30:09,225 "for my mother is Buddhist and my father Christian. 527 00:30:09,308 --> 00:30:14,480 Also, I am not yet growing, and several of my fourth-grade classmates wear bras." 528 00:30:14,563 --> 00:30:19,026 "I did not even know what menstruation was until I read your books. 529 00:30:19,109 --> 00:30:21,237 Then, to test my mother..." 530 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,032 "I took a sanitary napkin from the box and asked what it was for. 531 00:30:25,115 --> 00:30:29,411 "She pretended to not hear me and evaded my questions. 532 00:30:29,495 --> 00:30:32,998 "When do you think is the average time for girls to get their periods and bras? 533 00:30:33,082 --> 00:30:36,001 "I would very much like to have an answer for that. 534 00:30:36,085 --> 00:30:37,419 "Sincerely, Lorrie Kim. 535 00:30:37,503 --> 00:30:39,797 "PS. If you know some good sex books, 536 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,342 could you take the trouble to give me title, author, et cetera of the book?" 537 00:30:44,343 --> 00:30:46,804 She always made it so interesting. 538 00:30:46,887 --> 00:30:49,765 I couldn't wait to read her letters. 539 00:30:49,848 --> 00:30:52,476 - Did your children come to you for advice? - No, of course not. 540 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,144 (laughter) 541 00:30:54,228 --> 00:30:57,022 No, I'm that perfect mother to all those kids out there 542 00:30:57,106 --> 00:30:59,316 - who think, "If only, if only." - Yeah. Yeah. 543 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,989 Um, but to my own... my own kids, I was Judy, I was Mother, I was Mom. 544 00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:09,827 Watch carefully. 545 00:31:09,910 --> 00:31:11,245 Oh, thank you. I will. 546 00:31:11,328 --> 00:31:14,582 You have to get it right in the middle. 547 00:31:14,665 --> 00:31:18,836 JUDY: When I was little, my mother was a very, very timid cook. 548 00:31:18,919 --> 00:31:22,506 We had the same thing every... 549 00:31:23,591 --> 00:31:26,051 {\an8}You know, every Monday, every Tuesday, every Wednesday, 550 00:31:26,135 --> 00:31:28,846 {\an8}- we knew what it was going to be. - We had that growing up. 551 00:31:28,929 --> 00:31:31,765 No, you didn't exactly. No. 552 00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:34,518 RANDY: Okay, okay, that's good. 553 00:31:34,602 --> 00:31:37,104 You know, in my day, in my day, it was... 554 00:31:37,187 --> 00:31:41,817 I was a working woman and so proud of being a working woman. 555 00:31:41,900 --> 00:31:44,570 It's not for everybody. 556 00:31:44,653 --> 00:31:46,322 I always say to young people, 557 00:31:46,405 --> 00:31:51,452 "Yeah, you can have it all but not necessarily all at the same time." 558 00:31:51,535 --> 00:31:54,371 Maybe yes, maybe not. 559 00:31:54,455 --> 00:31:59,168 I was very independent, and I, um, felt 560 00:31:59,251 --> 00:32:03,297 that I had raised the kids almost on my own anyway 561 00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:08,761 because my husband was a very busy person professionally 562 00:32:08,844 --> 00:32:13,140 and was always off someplace else... golf or tennis weekends... 563 00:32:13,223 --> 00:32:16,435 and the child-rearing was left pretty much to me. 564 00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:21,940 I don't think John ever read one of my books. 565 00:32:22,024 --> 00:32:23,400 Mm-mm. 566 00:32:23,484 --> 00:32:26,070 I didn't really care. 567 00:32:26,153 --> 00:32:29,156 I didn't care. Randy read them. 568 00:32:29,239 --> 00:32:33,494 I mean, my daughter was my first reader when she was in elementary school. 569 00:32:33,577 --> 00:32:37,414 Well, I came home from school, and there were pages waiting for me. 570 00:32:37,498 --> 00:32:39,625 - JUDY: She was a reader. - And then she watched. 571 00:32:39,708 --> 00:32:41,960 "What are you laughing at? What's so funny?" 572 00:32:42,044 --> 00:32:45,089 - (Judy chuckling) - "What do you think of this?" 573 00:32:45,172 --> 00:32:47,591 JUDY: You know, in those days, 574 00:32:47,675 --> 00:32:51,595 I felt that my life would be very short because of my father's 575 00:32:51,679 --> 00:32:54,431 and everybody in his family. 576 00:32:54,515 --> 00:32:56,767 And so, uh, 577 00:32:56,850 --> 00:33:00,771 I needed to hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, get something done. 578 00:33:00,854 --> 00:33:03,565 {\an8}I just remember the sound of the typewriter... pa-pa-pa-pa... 579 00:33:03,649 --> 00:33:05,317 {\an8}and how fast you typed. 580 00:33:05,401 --> 00:33:07,653 {\an8}And I could hear in the other room the typewriter going. 581 00:33:07,736 --> 00:33:10,280 I was conscious of you working, 582 00:33:10,364 --> 00:33:12,950 but I also didn't feel like, "Oh, Mom's not available 583 00:33:13,033 --> 00:33:14,034 because she's at work." 584 00:33:14,118 --> 00:33:16,203 You didn't have the kind of fame a movie star has 585 00:33:16,286 --> 00:33:18,014 where you were being recognized on the street. 586 00:33:18,038 --> 00:33:20,332 Like, I didn't have that sense of it. 587 00:33:20,416 --> 00:33:22,876 And it just felt like I was in any other house. 588 00:33:24,545 --> 00:33:26,672 JUDY: In Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing, 589 00:33:26,755 --> 00:33:29,591 Fudge was based on my son Larry. 590 00:33:29,675 --> 00:33:34,972 When he was a toddler, I mean, Larry wanted to be Frisky the Cat 591 00:33:35,055 --> 00:33:38,058 and ate his supper under the table. 592 00:33:38,142 --> 00:33:40,018 He would go under the table with a little bowl. 593 00:33:40,102 --> 00:33:45,649 I mean, just so many endearing little qualities of Fudge come from Larry. 594 00:33:47,151 --> 00:33:51,405 The Fudge books eventually became a five-book series. 595 00:33:52,823 --> 00:33:55,868 (laughing): What a breakout star Fudge was. 596 00:33:55,951 --> 00:33:58,036 {\an8}I think I was the Fudge, you know? 597 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,289 {\an8}I was the one who was always singing 598 00:34:00,372 --> 00:34:02,374 {\an8}and always performing. 599 00:34:02,458 --> 00:34:04,877 And I just... I must have been sort of unbearable. 600 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,214 The scene where Fudge eats the turtle... 601 00:34:09,298 --> 00:34:11,633 that was just worth its weight in gold. 602 00:34:11,717 --> 00:34:15,763 "Fudge was standing in the kitchen doorway with a big grin on his face. 603 00:34:16,847 --> 00:34:19,641 "My mother picked him up and patted his head. 604 00:34:19,725 --> 00:34:24,146 "'Fudgie, ' she said to him, 'tell Mommy where brother's turtle is.' 605 00:34:24,229 --> 00:34:27,399 "'In tummy, ' Fudge said. 606 00:34:27,483 --> 00:34:30,277 "'No!' Mom shouted. 607 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,738 "'Yes!' Fudge shouted back. 608 00:34:32,821 --> 00:34:38,410 "'Yes?' Mom asked weakly, holding onto a chair with both hands. 609 00:34:38,494 --> 00:34:41,371 "'Yes!' Fudge beamed. 610 00:34:41,455 --> 00:34:43,916 "My mother moaned and picked up my brother. 611 00:34:43,999 --> 00:34:46,919 'Oh no!'" 612 00:34:47,002 --> 00:34:49,588 You know, I never wanted to use my kids. 613 00:34:49,671 --> 00:34:52,883 I always felt, that's their privacy. 614 00:34:52,966 --> 00:34:54,760 But with Fudge was a whole different thing. 615 00:34:54,843 --> 00:34:57,054 I mean, I never felt I was using you. 616 00:34:57,137 --> 00:35:01,016 You were older by the time I was writing about Fudge. 617 00:35:01,099 --> 00:35:05,771 It made me feel a little bit noodley if I was dating somebody, 618 00:35:05,854 --> 00:35:08,899 then they would say, like, "Oh," you know, "I'm dating Fudge." 619 00:35:08,982 --> 00:35:10,862 - (Judy laughing) - You know, like, ha-ha-ha-ha. 620 00:35:10,901 --> 00:35:12,569 - Uh-huh. Right. Right. - (laughing) 621 00:35:16,990 --> 00:35:19,701 JUDY: When Randy was in fifth grade, 622 00:35:19,785 --> 00:35:21,829 kids were riding the school bus. 623 00:35:21,912 --> 00:35:24,248 That whole school bus culture. 624 00:35:24,331 --> 00:35:29,586 And she came home and told me bad things happened. 625 00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:31,713 We weren't even using the word "bully." 626 00:35:31,797 --> 00:35:35,050 I mean, we all knew that word, but it wasn't in style. 627 00:35:35,133 --> 00:35:38,428 And this is where the idea came from for Blubber. 628 00:35:39,638 --> 00:35:43,976 I mean, literally, this is the... this is the copy of Blubber that I had. 629 00:35:44,059 --> 00:35:45,519 She wasn't that big. 630 00:35:45,602 --> 00:35:46,830 You know, they teased that girl, 631 00:35:46,854 --> 00:35:48,438 but when you look at her on the cover, 632 00:35:48,522 --> 00:35:50,524 she's just a little chubby. 633 00:35:50,607 --> 00:35:54,027 The title still sort of, like... (groans) 634 00:35:54,111 --> 00:35:56,071 It always kind of made me uncomfortable. 635 00:35:56,154 --> 00:35:57,322 (sighs) 636 00:35:57,406 --> 00:36:01,410 I... you know, I remember when Mrs. Sollecito handed me this book 637 00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:04,329 and she was like, "I really think that you need to read this," 638 00:36:04,413 --> 00:36:08,125 because there was a lot of bullying that was going on in my class. 639 00:36:08,208 --> 00:36:12,045 To this day, I still have a visceral, visceral reaction 640 00:36:12,129 --> 00:36:14,923 to some of the scenes in that book. 641 00:36:16,049 --> 00:36:18,969 There's one scene in particular in the bathroom. 642 00:36:20,053 --> 00:36:23,599 JUDY: "'Look who's here, ' Wendy said. 'It's Blubber!' 643 00:36:23,682 --> 00:36:27,185 "'In the flesh, ' Caroline added. 644 00:36:27,269 --> 00:36:31,315 "'I wonder what's under her cape?' Wendy asked. 645 00:36:31,398 --> 00:36:34,818 "'There's got to be her blubber... at least.' 646 00:36:34,902 --> 00:36:39,406 "'Yeah... her blubber's under her cape!' Caroline said 647 00:36:39,489 --> 00:36:42,117 "and she and Wendy started laughing. 648 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,578 "I giggled a little too. 649 00:36:44,661 --> 00:36:48,457 "'Strip her!' Wendy said, yanking up Linda's skirt. 650 00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:50,417 "Linda started to cry. 651 00:36:50,500 --> 00:36:53,962 'Oh my... Blubber's blubbering.'" 652 00:36:55,714 --> 00:36:58,967 The people around Linda are extremely unkind, 653 00:36:59,051 --> 00:37:02,763 and that does not really resolve itself by the end of the book. 654 00:37:02,846 --> 00:37:06,016 You know, the kid who's been bullied all this time, Blubber, 655 00:37:06,099 --> 00:37:10,228 turns around and becomes the bully. 656 00:37:10,312 --> 00:37:15,817 I remember reading that book and feeling really conflicted. 657 00:37:15,901 --> 00:37:17,903 {\an8}Guess what. In the book about bullying, 658 00:37:17,986 --> 00:37:19,321 {\an8}everybody sucks. 659 00:37:19,404 --> 00:37:21,990 It leaves open the-the question: 660 00:37:22,074 --> 00:37:25,160 Okay, so what's your part in this? How do you... how do you fit in here? 661 00:37:25,243 --> 00:37:27,245 It made me want not to be horrible. 662 00:37:27,329 --> 00:37:30,707 {\an8}It made me understand that just being a bystander to cruel behavior 663 00:37:30,791 --> 00:37:32,417 {\an8}made you cruel. 664 00:37:33,502 --> 00:37:37,756 Wow. Oh, I even remember this back ad. Look at that. 665 00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:39,883 Other Choices for Becoming a Woman. 666 00:37:39,967 --> 00:37:42,427 I just remember reading that a bunch of times. 667 00:37:43,553 --> 00:37:48,767 CHILD: "Dear Judy, I would like to know if you know if I'm a normal fifth grader." 668 00:37:48,850 --> 00:37:51,144 CHILD 2: "Everybody thinks I'm so sweet, 669 00:37:51,228 --> 00:37:53,689 but I have some feelings that no one knows about." 670 00:37:53,772 --> 00:37:56,566 CHILD 3: "Dear Judy, I love your books. 671 00:37:56,650 --> 00:37:59,277 I'm interested in sex. I am ten." 672 00:37:59,361 --> 00:38:01,446 LORRIE: "Dear Judy, You may have noticed 673 00:38:01,530 --> 00:38:03,907 "that whenever I have a problem I unload it on you. 674 00:38:03,991 --> 00:38:05,993 {\an8}"I can't say anything to anyone else. 675 00:38:06,076 --> 00:38:07,911 {\an8}"I used to confide in my diary, 676 00:38:07,995 --> 00:38:09,830 {\an8}but everyone keeps reading it." 677 00:38:09,913 --> 00:38:13,875 "When was the last time I wrote? Was it just two days ago?" 678 00:38:13,959 --> 00:38:16,169 I am really her diary. 679 00:38:16,253 --> 00:38:19,172 I mean, it's dangerous to keep a diary when you're afraid 680 00:38:19,256 --> 00:38:21,717 a parent is going to read it. 681 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,594 And every now and then, this person 682 00:38:24,678 --> 00:38:28,932 that she sent her diary to... me... would answer her. 683 00:38:30,017 --> 00:38:34,396 So, this is the first letter I got from Judy. 684 00:38:34,479 --> 00:38:38,567 The picture that she... She's very pretty. She's really pretty. 685 00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:40,652 "Dear Lorrie, I just loved your letter. 686 00:38:40,736 --> 00:38:43,280 "Are you really in fourth grade? You sound so much older. 687 00:38:43,363 --> 00:38:46,366 "Don't worry about growing. It will happen in time. 688 00:38:46,450 --> 00:38:49,286 I was 14 when I got my first period." 689 00:38:49,369 --> 00:38:52,372 "I wish you wouldn't worry about boys reading my books. 690 00:38:52,456 --> 00:38:55,083 "I think it's good for boys to read about girls 691 00:38:55,167 --> 00:38:57,169 and girls to read about boys." 692 00:38:57,252 --> 00:38:59,963 "We are all human, and the more we learn about each other, 693 00:39:00,047 --> 00:39:01,965 "the better we'll be able to get along. 694 00:39:02,049 --> 00:39:05,969 "And if you have more questions or want to tell me anything else, write, okay? 695 00:39:06,053 --> 00:39:08,555 Love, Judy Blume." 696 00:39:08,638 --> 00:39:11,141 JUDY: Lorrie, she shared everything that was going on, 697 00:39:11,224 --> 00:39:13,351 everything that she was feeling. 698 00:39:13,435 --> 00:39:16,396 We wrote for many, many, many, many years. 699 00:39:19,649 --> 00:39:22,527 LORRIE: I did wonder why on earth she was 700 00:39:22,611 --> 00:39:25,405 spending her time reading all this stuff I was writing. 701 00:39:25,489 --> 00:39:27,491 You know, isn't she busy? (laughs) 702 00:39:27,574 --> 00:39:29,785 Um, but, you know, well, 703 00:39:29,868 --> 00:39:34,539 maybe I can make it worth her while by reporting from the front. 704 00:39:34,623 --> 00:39:39,628 Like, you know, here we are in the sixth-grade classroom, 705 00:39:39,711 --> 00:39:43,757 and this is what our real live sixth grader is thinking today. 706 00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:49,596 "Dear Judy, Seventh graders are C-R-E-E-P-S. 707 00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:52,057 All they care about is sex." 708 00:39:52,140 --> 00:39:55,519 JUDY: Kids wrote to me about everything from, 709 00:39:55,602 --> 00:40:00,398 you know, their bodies to problems with family and being accepted. 710 00:40:01,483 --> 00:40:03,944 CHILD: "Nothing I do is good enough for my mother. 711 00:40:04,027 --> 00:40:07,948 If I get all A's and one B, she says I should have tried harder." 712 00:40:08,949 --> 00:40:12,577 Parental expectations are really tough, I can tell you. 713 00:40:12,661 --> 00:40:15,205 Because I know what they were for me. 714 00:40:15,288 --> 00:40:17,791 ♪ ♪ 715 00:40:17,874 --> 00:40:23,255 My mother had really some low self-esteem issues herself. 716 00:40:23,338 --> 00:40:26,800 But she wanted me to be perfect. 717 00:40:26,883 --> 00:40:31,054 "I need you to be perfect because I'm not." 718 00:40:31,138 --> 00:40:33,515 And I knew I wasn't, 719 00:40:33,598 --> 00:40:37,310 and I pretended a lot of the time. 720 00:40:37,394 --> 00:40:40,147 I told her what she wanted to hear. 721 00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:45,152 Yes, I had the prettiest dress, and yes, I was the most popular. 722 00:40:45,235 --> 00:40:47,487 When I became a teenager, 723 00:40:47,571 --> 00:40:51,199 I thought I couldn't fail at anything, 724 00:40:51,283 --> 00:40:53,869 and that was hard. 725 00:40:53,952 --> 00:40:55,370 Deenie! 726 00:40:55,453 --> 00:40:57,747 Deenie. Oh, my God. 727 00:40:57,831 --> 00:41:01,835 She's gonna... sh-she could just die rather than wear the brace. 728 00:41:03,211 --> 00:41:08,049 Deenie is the book where the beautiful, beautiful girl 729 00:41:08,133 --> 00:41:11,428 has scoliosis, so she can't be a model anymore. 730 00:41:11,511 --> 00:41:13,722 (gasps) Gasp, horror, right? 731 00:41:13,805 --> 00:41:15,724 And she doesn't even really want to be a model. 732 00:41:15,807 --> 00:41:17,851 It's her mom that keeps pushing her to be a model. 733 00:41:17,934 --> 00:41:21,521 "'Hey, Ma...' I called. 'Here's the bus.' 734 00:41:21,605 --> 00:41:27,444 "As we got on, the bus driver greeted me with, 'Hi, Beautiful!' 735 00:41:27,527 --> 00:41:30,780 "Mom gave him a big smile and said, 736 00:41:30,864 --> 00:41:33,700 "'Deenie's the beauty, Helen's the brain.' 737 00:41:33,783 --> 00:41:35,660 "The bus driver didn't say anything else 738 00:41:35,744 --> 00:41:38,121 "because what does he know about our family? 739 00:41:38,205 --> 00:41:42,167 He was probably sorry he bothered with us in the first place." 740 00:41:43,418 --> 00:41:46,004 {\an8}I'm going along reading about this character who's got this mom 741 00:41:46,087 --> 00:41:48,882 {\an8}who's putting pressure on her to be, you know, a model. 742 00:41:48,965 --> 00:41:51,801 And, you know, scoliosis and friendships and school. 743 00:41:51,885 --> 00:41:55,805 And then all of a sudden, there's this passage that says, like, 744 00:41:55,889 --> 00:41:58,808 "I went to bed. I touched myself in my special place. 745 00:41:58,892 --> 00:42:00,769 That's what I do to help me fall asleep." 746 00:42:00,852 --> 00:42:03,813 So, like, just dropped in the middle of a narrative 747 00:42:03,897 --> 00:42:08,068 about all these other things, and I was... it stopped me cold 748 00:42:08,151 --> 00:42:13,782 because I had so much shame about my own masturbating. 749 00:42:13,865 --> 00:42:16,201 Was it difficult some years ago when you started? 750 00:42:16,284 --> 00:42:18,203 I never thought about it. 751 00:42:18,286 --> 00:42:21,957 Um, my own sexuality was an important part of my life. 752 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,209 It was always there with me. I never heard... 753 00:42:24,292 --> 00:42:27,504 For instance, I never heard the word "masturbation" when I was growing up, 754 00:42:27,587 --> 00:42:30,548 - but I knew that I had this special place. - Yes. 755 00:42:30,632 --> 00:42:33,677 And I was lucky enough to have friends who were open about it, 756 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,821 - and we all... we all talked about it. - And talked. 757 00:42:35,845 --> 00:42:37,472 "Do you have that special place?" 758 00:42:37,555 --> 00:42:38,974 "Yes." "Well, I have it, too." 759 00:42:39,057 --> 00:42:42,727 {\an8}Not only is Deenie dealing with a disability. 760 00:42:42,811 --> 00:42:46,356 {\an8}In the midst of the disability, she finds pleasure. 761 00:42:46,439 --> 00:42:49,567 It's honoring the fact that just because you have... have physical differences, 762 00:42:49,651 --> 00:42:53,029 it does not mean that you are void of the opportunity for pleasure, right? 763 00:42:53,113 --> 00:42:56,283 And simultaneously, girls should find pleasure. 764 00:42:56,366 --> 00:43:00,203 {\an8}As a kid, being 13, we were watching 765 00:43:00,287 --> 00:43:03,498 guys in movies that were on the big screen 766 00:43:03,581 --> 00:43:06,835 of my little town's theater masturbating. 767 00:43:06,918 --> 00:43:08,962 Oh, yeah. (grunts) 768 00:43:09,045 --> 00:43:10,130 (gasps) 769 00:43:11,256 --> 00:43:13,633 And it was funny and accepted and whatever. 770 00:43:13,717 --> 00:43:16,136 And then you talk about girls, and... 771 00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:19,681 and even in my school, the idea of a girl masturbating meant they were a "slut." 772 00:43:19,764 --> 00:43:21,433 You know, it was immediately vilified, 773 00:43:21,516 --> 00:43:23,727 where guys could talk about it at lunch. (chuckles) 774 00:43:25,603 --> 00:43:29,357 JUDY: I did meet a male principal who said to me, 775 00:43:29,441 --> 00:43:33,111 "If this had been a boy character, 776 00:43:33,194 --> 00:43:34,696 "it would've been normal. 777 00:43:34,779 --> 00:43:37,198 "But this is a girl. 778 00:43:37,282 --> 00:43:39,451 This is not normal." 779 00:43:39,534 --> 00:43:43,371 Guess what, male principal, I have news for you. 780 00:43:43,455 --> 00:43:45,373 It is normal. (laughs) 781 00:43:48,376 --> 00:43:51,796 You know, my mother, she was a crackerjack typist 782 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,383 and always typed the final draft of my book 783 00:43:55,467 --> 00:43:57,218 before I sent it in. 784 00:43:57,302 --> 00:44:01,973 Never said a critical word, never said a critical word. 785 00:44:02,057 --> 00:44:04,934 And now I do wonder, well, what did she think 786 00:44:05,018 --> 00:44:08,188 of all the, you know, menstruation? 787 00:44:08,271 --> 00:44:11,649 And then Deenie... did I let her type Deenie? Masturbation? 788 00:44:11,733 --> 00:44:15,737 Oh, my God. All the things we never talked about. 789 00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:19,991 {\an8}Deenie is funny because I think its reputation, 790 00:44:20,075 --> 00:44:22,160 {\an8}uh, in the popular consciousness 791 00:44:22,243 --> 00:44:24,662 is that it is the "female masturbation novel," 792 00:44:24,746 --> 00:44:28,041 uh, which only amounts to a line or two in the book. 793 00:44:28,124 --> 00:44:30,460 Reading it now, uh, I thought, 794 00:44:30,543 --> 00:44:32,629 oh, this is actually the parental control novel. 795 00:44:32,712 --> 00:44:35,423 This is about what happens when your parents 796 00:44:35,507 --> 00:44:38,176 have ideas about who you are, 797 00:44:38,259 --> 00:44:40,303 and how do you decide if your parents are right 798 00:44:40,387 --> 00:44:42,430 or if you want to follow your own path? 799 00:44:43,807 --> 00:44:46,226 JUDY: "I went up the stairs as fast as I could, 800 00:44:46,309 --> 00:44:50,105 "slammed my bedroom door and tried to flop down on my bed. 801 00:44:50,188 --> 00:44:52,565 "But I couldn't even flop anymore. 802 00:44:52,649 --> 00:44:56,361 "So I cursed. I said every bad word I knew. 803 00:44:56,444 --> 00:44:58,530 "Every single one. 804 00:44:58,613 --> 00:45:03,243 I yelled them as loud as I could and then I screamed them again." 805 00:45:03,326 --> 00:45:08,415 Deenie is really a people pleaser for a lot of the book. 806 00:45:08,498 --> 00:45:10,083 {\an8}And then she really finds herself. 807 00:45:10,166 --> 00:45:13,628 {\an8}She gets really angry at people, and she lets it fly. 808 00:45:13,711 --> 00:45:19,092 And Deenie kind of unleashing herself in the book was really helpful to me. 809 00:45:19,175 --> 00:45:21,970 You know, come for the female masturbation, 810 00:45:22,053 --> 00:45:24,055 stay for the empowerment. 811 00:45:24,139 --> 00:45:26,683 ("Desire" by Lazarus playing) 812 00:45:28,852 --> 00:45:33,231 The sort of fascinating thing about the role of Judy's books in the '70s 813 00:45:33,314 --> 00:45:36,818 is that there was so much change 814 00:45:36,901 --> 00:45:41,656 in terms of sexuality, social roles for adults. 815 00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:43,116 ♪ Your love... ♪ 816 00:45:43,199 --> 00:45:44,969 You know, we had the sexual revolution going on, 817 00:45:44,993 --> 00:45:47,745 we had a mass wave of divorce. 818 00:45:47,829 --> 00:45:51,124 Society was being totally refashioned on every level. 819 00:45:51,207 --> 00:45:54,419 WOMAN: ♪ We're gonna ask all our sisters here ♪ 820 00:45:54,502 --> 00:45:57,380 ♪ To come and join the fight... ♪ 821 00:45:57,464 --> 00:45:59,883 JUDY: It was the time of the women's movement. 822 00:45:59,966 --> 00:46:03,094 It didn't come to suburban New Jersey then. 823 00:46:03,178 --> 00:46:04,345 We were late. 824 00:46:04,429 --> 00:46:06,264 But I knew. 825 00:46:06,347 --> 00:46:08,600 You know, I got Ms. magazine. 826 00:46:08,683 --> 00:46:10,226 (sighs) I was young. 827 00:46:10,310 --> 00:46:11,853 I wanted to be out there. 828 00:46:11,936 --> 00:46:13,813 - What do we want? - Equality! 829 00:46:13,897 --> 00:46:16,024 JUDY: I wanted to go march. 830 00:46:16,107 --> 00:46:17,317 I wanted to burn bras. 831 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,569 - WOMAN: ...and the time is now! - (applause) 832 00:46:20,778 --> 00:46:22,739 JUDY: I didn't do it. 833 00:46:22,822 --> 00:46:27,285 Instead, I stayed home and I wrote. 834 00:46:27,368 --> 00:46:30,914 I could be fearless in my writing 835 00:46:30,997 --> 00:46:35,543 in a way that maybe I wasn't always in my life. 836 00:46:35,627 --> 00:46:38,963 Let's talk about the book, the-the young boy and the young girl, 837 00:46:39,047 --> 00:46:41,066 Forever..., about, uh, the high school kids deciding 838 00:46:41,090 --> 00:46:43,402 whether or not to have a-a relation... a sexual relationship. 839 00:46:43,426 --> 00:46:45,029 - They're seniors in high school. - Is there any... 840 00:46:45,053 --> 00:46:46,989 - That's Forever... It's a love story. - Okay. All right. 841 00:46:47,013 --> 00:46:49,724 REPORTER: Forever... is about 18-year-olds 842 00:46:49,807 --> 00:46:51,476 {\an8}in love, having sex 843 00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:53,061 for the first time. 844 00:46:53,144 --> 00:46:54,504 It is a very explicit description. 845 00:46:54,562 --> 00:46:56,773 And it's her biggest-selling book. 846 00:46:57,857 --> 00:47:00,652 JUDY: You know, when my daughter was 14, 847 00:47:00,735 --> 00:47:03,363 Randy was still reading books where, 848 00:47:03,446 --> 00:47:08,034 if a girl succumbed and did this terrible thing with a boy... 849 00:47:08,117 --> 00:47:11,621 which was never really spelled out in the books, 850 00:47:11,704 --> 00:47:16,334 but you knew that she had had sex... 851 00:47:16,417 --> 00:47:18,211 the girl was punished. 852 00:47:18,294 --> 00:47:20,338 Her life was ruined. 853 00:47:20,421 --> 00:47:24,551 She would get pregnant, and this would lead to 854 00:47:24,634 --> 00:47:28,972 her banishment or, uh, illegal abortion, 855 00:47:29,055 --> 00:47:30,974 and the girl would die. 856 00:47:31,975 --> 00:47:34,852 Randy said to me, "Mother, couldn't you write a book 857 00:47:34,936 --> 00:47:38,523 "about two nice kids, and they fall in love 858 00:47:38,606 --> 00:47:42,193 and they do it, and nobody has to die?" 859 00:47:42,277 --> 00:47:47,907 And I thought, "Yes, yes, I should write that book." 860 00:47:48,992 --> 00:47:51,077 "Sibyl Davison has a genius I.Q. 861 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,705 and has been laid by at least six different guys." 862 00:47:53,788 --> 00:47:57,667 Has there ever been a better opening line in a novel in history? 863 00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:59,377 (chuckles): I say no. 864 00:47:59,460 --> 00:48:01,879 This cover promised some things to me. 865 00:48:01,963 --> 00:48:04,882 Like, I said, "Okay, well, there's... if there's crumpled bedding, 866 00:48:04,966 --> 00:48:06,968 I'm gonna... I'm gonna learn some things." 867 00:48:07,051 --> 00:48:09,095 - REPORTER: Have you read Forever...? - Mm. 868 00:48:09,178 --> 00:48:10,948 I mean, I just opened up a page, and I thought, 869 00:48:10,972 --> 00:48:13,391 "No, at nine, we're not ready for this yet." 870 00:48:13,474 --> 00:48:17,895 But, you know, at 13, I think it might be, you know, really very appropriate. 871 00:48:17,979 --> 00:48:19,897 Will it be all right with your family? 872 00:48:19,981 --> 00:48:21,482 - Yeah. - Okay, good. 873 00:48:21,566 --> 00:48:24,611 Well, it was sexually explicit. I mean, 874 00:48:24,694 --> 00:48:28,364 the publisher called it "her first novel for adults." 875 00:48:28,448 --> 00:48:31,534 Which made me crazy 876 00:48:31,618 --> 00:48:34,912 because it wasn't meant for adult readers. 877 00:48:34,996 --> 00:48:37,290 {\an8}There were books that were written about teenagers, 878 00:48:37,373 --> 00:48:40,835 {\an8}but there was not a-a categorization that called it YA. 879 00:48:40,918 --> 00:48:44,047 It grew in popularity because the interest was there. 880 00:48:44,130 --> 00:48:46,049 There was this need for books 881 00:48:46,132 --> 00:48:50,261 that were speaking to kids that were 12 and up, 14 and up. 882 00:48:50,345 --> 00:48:53,222 Forever... was the one we weren't allowed to read. 883 00:48:53,306 --> 00:48:57,060 Forever... was a Judy Blume book that was not in the library. 884 00:48:57,143 --> 00:49:00,355 It was a revelation, and it was so illicit-feeling. 885 00:49:00,438 --> 00:49:02,649 {\an8}Forever... was the book that, in seventh grade, 886 00:49:02,732 --> 00:49:05,109 {\an8}we'd, like, pass it around and we'd, like, 887 00:49:05,193 --> 00:49:07,612 {\an8}put notes and be like, "Ralph!" 888 00:49:07,695 --> 00:49:12,533 {\an8}People used to say, "Page 85, Ralph." 889 00:49:12,617 --> 00:49:16,037 {\an8}Right? And so, if you know what that means, then you get it. 890 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,039 If you don't, I'm not gonna tell you. 891 00:49:18,122 --> 00:49:20,333 "He led my hand to his penis. 892 00:49:20,416 --> 00:49:23,086 "'Katherine... I'd like you to meet Ralph... 893 00:49:23,169 --> 00:49:25,004 "'Ralph, this is Katherine. 894 00:49:25,088 --> 00:49:26,881 She's a very good friend of mine.'" 895 00:49:26,964 --> 00:49:28,591 (laughs) 896 00:49:28,675 --> 00:49:30,551 You know, it's just a name. I don't know. 897 00:49:30,635 --> 00:49:34,389 Michael names his penis, and he presents it to Katherine. 898 00:49:34,472 --> 00:49:37,809 "Katherine, meet Ralph. Ralph, I'd like you to meet Katherine." 899 00:49:37,892 --> 00:49:42,021 "In books penises are always described as hot and throbbing, 900 00:49:42,105 --> 00:49:44,524 "but Ralph felt like ordinary skin. 901 00:49:44,607 --> 00:49:46,359 Just his shape was different." 902 00:49:46,442 --> 00:49:51,406 Like, you can literally imagine Katherine being like, "Oh, oh, okay." 903 00:49:51,489 --> 00:49:54,909 Sexual encounters don't have to be so serious, 904 00:49:54,992 --> 00:49:56,828 especially when it's your first time. 905 00:49:56,911 --> 00:49:59,914 {\an8}Judy wrote these beautiful scenes that are awkward, 906 00:49:59,997 --> 00:50:03,459 {\an8}that are a little, like, "Oh, no, we don't know what we're... 907 00:50:03,543 --> 00:50:06,587 Ooh, is this okay? Is this fi... What? Are we good?" 908 00:50:06,671 --> 00:50:09,632 She goes from, like, you know, getting comfortable with sex 909 00:50:09,716 --> 00:50:12,009 to having, like, really good sex. 910 00:50:12,093 --> 00:50:14,053 "And then I came. 911 00:50:14,137 --> 00:50:16,389 "And as he finished I came again. 912 00:50:16,472 --> 00:50:19,016 'Happy graduation...' I laughed." 913 00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:21,477 (laughing) 914 00:50:22,812 --> 00:50:26,441 The thing that we were sort of more attracted to 915 00:50:26,524 --> 00:50:28,860 as 12-year-old girls was the boyfriend. 916 00:50:28,943 --> 00:50:31,863 Like, "Oh, my God, I wish I had a boyfriend like Michael." 917 00:50:31,946 --> 00:50:35,575 And then, when I look at it now, I'm like, "Michael is such a dick." 918 00:50:35,658 --> 00:50:38,244 That boy pushes on her... 919 00:50:39,579 --> 00:50:44,459 ...in a way that at the time probably felt like, 920 00:50:44,542 --> 00:50:46,919 "Wow, he's only pushing on her a little bit. 921 00:50:47,003 --> 00:50:48,921 He could be so much worse." 922 00:50:49,005 --> 00:50:52,049 But she has to say no an awful lot. 923 00:50:52,133 --> 00:50:57,180 RACHEL LOTUS: As much as you can see how the character of Michael is 924 00:50:57,263 --> 00:51:01,350 in the beginning... pushing and encouraging and kind of 925 00:51:01,434 --> 00:51:03,770 drawing Katherine in... 926 00:51:03,853 --> 00:51:05,354 {\an8}she, too, wants it. 927 00:51:05,438 --> 00:51:08,649 {\an8}And she talks about what her body feels like. 928 00:51:08,733 --> 00:51:11,736 The way that Judy treats female sexuality 929 00:51:11,819 --> 00:51:14,572 and desire and pleasure, it's still groundbreaking. 930 00:51:14,655 --> 00:51:18,451 I just cannot believe that it does our kids any favor 931 00:51:18,534 --> 00:51:20,536 to present sex with punishment. 932 00:51:20,620 --> 00:51:24,916 I would much rather give them sex with love, sex with responsibility. 933 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,419 CHILD: "Dear Judy, I just finished Forever..., 934 00:51:28,503 --> 00:51:30,713 "and I was so disappointed by the ending. 935 00:51:30,797 --> 00:51:32,381 "I cried for hours. 936 00:51:32,465 --> 00:51:35,676 Katherine and Michael... I never wanted to see them split." 937 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,638 "I'll never regret one single thing we did together 938 00:51:38,721 --> 00:51:41,182 "because what we had was very special. 939 00:51:43,142 --> 00:51:48,773 "Maybe if we were ten years older it would have worked out differently. 940 00:51:48,856 --> 00:51:50,483 "Maybe. 941 00:51:50,566 --> 00:51:53,778 "I think it's just that I'm not ready for forever. 942 00:51:55,446 --> 00:51:59,033 "I hope that Michael knew what I was thinking. 943 00:51:59,116 --> 00:52:02,161 "I hope that my eyes got the message through to him, 944 00:52:02,245 --> 00:52:06,707 because all I could manage to say was, 'See you around...'" 945 00:52:07,917 --> 00:52:11,128 "'Yeah, ' he answered, 'see you around.'" 946 00:52:12,296 --> 00:52:15,341 Ugh. Kills me. That kills me. (laughs) 947 00:52:15,424 --> 00:52:19,470 In-in somebody else's hands, suddenly there would be a moral. 948 00:52:19,554 --> 00:52:23,015 You know, or the sex would have been the bad thing or the wrong thing or... 949 00:52:23,099 --> 00:52:24,767 And it... no, no. No, it's what happened, 950 00:52:24,851 --> 00:52:27,478 it became a part of her history, and it's now gonna be something 951 00:52:27,562 --> 00:52:29,522 that she carries on with her next relationship. 952 00:52:31,232 --> 00:52:34,861 JUDY: The ellipses after Forever... dot, dot, dot. 953 00:52:34,944 --> 00:52:39,490 Forever... doesn't always last forever. 954 00:52:42,952 --> 00:52:47,707 When I wrote this book, I wasn't really happy in my marriage. 955 00:52:49,333 --> 00:52:54,755 I was for so long a good girl, trying to please others, 956 00:52:54,839 --> 00:52:58,467 and I tried to do it for a long time. 957 00:52:59,552 --> 00:53:01,262 16 years. 958 00:53:01,345 --> 00:53:06,225 Actually, I think the writing allowed the marriage 959 00:53:06,309 --> 00:53:11,272 to last much longer than it might have otherwise. 960 00:53:13,274 --> 00:53:17,320 {\an8}When I wrote It's Not the End of the World, 961 00:53:17,403 --> 00:53:20,531 {\an8}I guess divorce was on my mind. 962 00:53:20,615 --> 00:53:25,161 {\an8}Maybe I was trying out the idea through writing this book. 963 00:53:26,245 --> 00:53:30,833 I was 37 when I left my marriage. 964 00:53:30,917 --> 00:53:33,628 I don't know what happened. It was like... 965 00:53:35,171 --> 00:53:38,174 "Enough of this. I have to live. 966 00:53:38,257 --> 00:53:40,676 I have to get out of here." 967 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,386 I wanted to see the world. 968 00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:44,555 I wanted to travel everywhere, 969 00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:48,100 and I couldn't stand one more day of suburban life. 970 00:53:48,184 --> 00:53:49,977 You wanted the freedom. 971 00:53:50,061 --> 00:53:54,106 I just looked at my life, and I said, 972 00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:58,027 "Have I led my own life, or have I led the life 973 00:53:58,110 --> 00:54:00,738 that my mother wanted me to lead?" 974 00:54:01,822 --> 00:54:04,075 I thought, "I can do this. 975 00:54:04,158 --> 00:54:06,661 "I can be divorced. 976 00:54:06,744 --> 00:54:09,372 I know how to do this." And of course, I didn't. 977 00:54:10,706 --> 00:54:12,708 I did leave. 978 00:54:12,792 --> 00:54:15,503 And then the first guy I met, I married... 979 00:54:16,796 --> 00:54:19,548 ...and went to London, where he was then based. 980 00:54:19,632 --> 00:54:22,009 He was a scientist. 981 00:54:22,093 --> 00:54:23,886 And I went with my kids. 982 00:54:23,970 --> 00:54:27,515 Took them out of school, seventh and ninth grade. 983 00:54:28,683 --> 00:54:32,812 We were flitting around Europe, going to scientific conferences. 984 00:54:33,938 --> 00:54:36,357 (scoffs) I didn't know what I was doing. 985 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:40,611 I was rebelling in the stupidest way. 986 00:54:40,695 --> 00:54:44,782 And it was very rough. 987 00:54:45,866 --> 00:54:48,494 And not just for me but for my kids. 988 00:54:48,577 --> 00:54:53,833 And I'm... you know, still have my guilt about that. 989 00:54:55,001 --> 00:54:57,586 That second marriage didn't work out, 990 00:54:57,670 --> 00:55:01,632 and we were together maybe four years. 991 00:55:01,716 --> 00:55:06,637 The hardest thing was having to admit that I had made a terrible mistake. 992 00:55:06,721 --> 00:55:08,139 That was so hard. 993 00:55:08,222 --> 00:55:10,558 I'm such a jerk. I'm such a fool. 994 00:55:10,641 --> 00:55:13,436 What was I doing? 995 00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:16,147 Um, really, really hard 996 00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:20,067 but part of my growing up. 997 00:55:22,236 --> 00:55:24,655 But here's the thing. 998 00:55:24,739 --> 00:55:28,909 Through all the worst times in my life, 999 00:55:28,993 --> 00:55:34,373 I've been able to write, and writing has gotten me through. 1000 00:55:37,585 --> 00:55:42,298 {\an8}And now the adult Judy had a burning story to tell. 1001 00:55:43,466 --> 00:55:49,263 I wanted to write about a woman who has been married for a number of years 1002 00:55:49,346 --> 00:55:51,474 and questions her choice. 1003 00:55:52,933 --> 00:55:56,145 It was very, very hard to write. 1004 00:55:56,228 --> 00:55:59,023 And it was close to home, I admit. 1005 00:56:01,358 --> 00:56:04,737 "Norman kissed her. He tasted like Colgate toothpaste. 1006 00:56:04,820 --> 00:56:06,781 "She hated Colgate. 1007 00:56:06,864 --> 00:56:09,825 "Question: Did she also hate Norman? 1008 00:56:09,909 --> 00:56:13,454 "Answer: Yes, sometimes. 1009 00:56:13,537 --> 00:56:16,749 "Norman's cold tongue was darting in and out of her mouth. 1010 00:56:16,832 --> 00:56:19,502 "One kiss. That was enough for him. 1011 00:56:19,585 --> 00:56:22,254 "Sandy didn't mind. Her lip hurt. 1012 00:56:22,338 --> 00:56:25,758 "Besides, his kisses no longer pleased her, 1013 00:56:25,841 --> 00:56:28,886 no longer offered any excitement." 1014 00:56:31,597 --> 00:56:33,933 I saw Wifey as her breakthrough. 1015 00:56:34,016 --> 00:56:35,851 {\an8}She went away from kids 1016 00:56:35,935 --> 00:56:39,105 {\an8}and dealt with the woman that she was now. 1017 00:56:39,188 --> 00:56:40,981 And the feelings that she had 1018 00:56:41,065 --> 00:56:45,402 and experiencing a lot of the things that we at 35 were feeling. 1019 00:56:45,486 --> 00:56:47,238 ♪ ♪ 1020 00:56:47,321 --> 00:56:49,907 JUDY: It jumped way up on the bestseller list. 1021 00:56:49,990 --> 00:56:51,784 It was a commercial hit. 1022 00:56:51,867 --> 00:56:53,953 Wifey was such a big runaway bestseller. 1023 00:56:54,036 --> 00:56:56,372 JUDY: Wifey is meant to be funny. 1024 00:56:56,455 --> 00:57:00,376 It's sexy and it's naughty. 1025 00:57:01,544 --> 00:57:04,630 She's cutting loose, maybe the way I was cutting loose. 1026 00:57:04,713 --> 00:57:07,633 "The national bestseller of a very nice housewife 1027 00:57:07,716 --> 00:57:10,386 (laughing): with a very dirty mind." 1028 00:57:10,469 --> 00:57:11,804 This was made for me. 1029 00:57:11,887 --> 00:57:13,931 How did I not read this book? What the hell? 1030 00:57:14,014 --> 00:57:17,101 I am realizing that on the cover of Wifey 1031 00:57:17,184 --> 00:57:20,062 she is naked and removing her wedding ring. 1032 00:57:20,146 --> 00:57:23,858 {\an8}I do not remember the va-va-voom cover. 1033 00:57:23,941 --> 00:57:27,903 "Wifey is tired of chicken on Wednesdays and sex on Saturdays." 1034 00:57:27,987 --> 00:57:30,698 I don't remember even feeling like I was ready for Wifey. 1035 00:57:30,781 --> 00:57:32,992 I don't know if I'm ready for Wifey now. 1036 00:57:41,834 --> 00:57:44,896 And there were some people that told me this would be "the end of your career." 1037 00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,381 "Kiss your career goodbye, Judy. 1038 00:57:47,464 --> 00:57:50,843 You publish this book, that's it." 1039 00:57:50,926 --> 00:57:54,221 {\an8}I guess I have about had it with novels about suburban housewives 1040 00:57:54,305 --> 00:57:57,558 {\an8}who seek to liberate themselves by having affairs. 1041 00:57:57,641 --> 00:58:00,978 {\an8}Wifey is billed as an adult novel. 1042 00:58:01,061 --> 00:58:02,771 The book isn't that adult. 1043 00:58:02,855 --> 00:58:06,317 It's just that author Judy Blume usually writes for kids. 1044 00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,777 {\an8}If Wifey were truly an adult novel, 1045 00:58:08,861 --> 00:58:12,198 {\an8}I don't think the sexuality in it would seem so gratuitous. 1046 00:58:12,281 --> 00:58:15,784 You know, when you write a book, you open yourself up to the world, 1047 00:58:15,868 --> 00:58:19,038 and-and... and they can pour salt on your wounds. 1048 00:58:19,121 --> 00:58:21,373 Um, it's tough to go through. 1049 00:58:21,457 --> 00:58:26,086 I read my reviews, for better or worse. 1050 00:58:26,170 --> 00:58:30,966 I used to mark them up with red pencil, "I hate you. I hate you, bitch." 1051 00:58:31,050 --> 00:58:34,261 But I... of course, I never sent any of that. 1052 00:58:34,345 --> 00:58:36,889 It was just a way to get it out. 1053 00:58:37,973 --> 00:58:40,184 RINGWALD: I remember being ten years old. 1054 00:58:40,267 --> 00:58:42,436 She had just written Wifey, 1055 00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:45,814 which absolutely scandalized everyone. 1056 00:58:45,898 --> 00:58:47,942 {\an8}And yet they all had copies of it. 1057 00:58:48,025 --> 00:58:50,277 {\an8}(laughing) 1058 00:58:50,361 --> 00:58:54,114 You know, all of the mothers, including my own, had copies. 1059 00:58:54,198 --> 00:58:57,451 JUDY: When Wifey was written, my kids were young teenagers... 1060 00:58:57,534 --> 00:59:00,037 I think they were 15 and 17... and I said, 1061 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,248 "Look, you know, there are some things in this book 1062 00:59:02,331 --> 00:59:07,044 that you might find strange, and let's talk about it." 1063 00:59:07,127 --> 00:59:10,589 And they went away and read it, and they came back just hooting 1064 00:59:10,673 --> 00:59:13,300 and said, "We never knew you knew all of that." 1065 00:59:13,384 --> 00:59:14,635 (laughing) 1066 00:59:14,718 --> 00:59:19,723 Some people were enraged that I had written such a book. 1067 00:59:19,807 --> 00:59:22,059 And if I had to write such a book, 1068 00:59:22,142 --> 00:59:24,019 it should have been under a different name. 1069 00:59:24,103 --> 00:59:26,855 The few people who feel that way have labeled me. 1070 00:59:26,939 --> 00:59:29,066 I am a children's book writer. 1071 00:59:29,149 --> 00:59:32,361 Therefore, how can I step out of that role and do anything else? 1072 00:59:32,444 --> 00:59:35,990 But I can say to kids, "Hey, look, I write for all ages. 1073 00:59:36,073 --> 00:59:38,075 "I've written an adult novel, Wifey. 1074 00:59:38,158 --> 00:59:40,995 That's for your parents, not for you right now." Kids... 1075 00:59:41,078 --> 00:59:43,205 - And let the readers choose wisely. - Absolutely. 1076 00:59:43,289 --> 00:59:45,582 (applause) 1077 00:59:45,666 --> 00:59:49,128 (band playing "Hail to the Chief") 1078 00:59:49,211 --> 00:59:53,090 I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute 1079 00:59:53,173 --> 00:59:57,511 the office of president of the United States, so help me God. 1080 00:59:57,594 --> 00:59:58,804 Uh, congratulations, sir. 1081 00:59:58,887 --> 01:00:02,349 JUDY: After the presidential election of 1980, 1082 01:00:02,433 --> 01:00:05,894 overnight, the censors came out of the woodwork 1083 01:00:05,978 --> 01:00:09,273 and burst onto the stage. 1084 01:00:09,356 --> 01:00:13,193 Demand those parties and politicians align themselves 1085 01:00:13,277 --> 01:00:15,279 with the eternal values in this book! 1086 01:00:15,362 --> 01:00:18,198 Attempts to censor books are nothing new. 1087 01:00:18,282 --> 01:00:21,910 What is new is the phenomenal increase in such attempts since the November election. 1088 01:00:21,994 --> 01:00:26,415 The Moral Majority and like-minded groups believe they have a mandate. 1089 01:00:26,498 --> 01:00:28,709 It was like, "It's our turn now. 1090 01:00:28,792 --> 01:00:31,253 "And we are going to tell you 1091 01:00:31,337 --> 01:00:35,924 not just what our kids can't read but what all kids can't read." 1092 01:00:36,008 --> 01:00:37,648 NORMA GABLER: I don't know how many of you 1093 01:00:37,676 --> 01:00:41,013 have taken a good look at any of your children's books. 1094 01:00:41,096 --> 01:00:43,057 Uh, I think you would be appalled. 1095 01:00:43,140 --> 01:00:45,476 We have many calls from parents who are deeply concerned 1096 01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:47,311 with library books, and they should be. 1097 01:00:48,312 --> 01:00:49,813 Homosexual activity! 1098 01:00:49,897 --> 01:00:52,649 REPORTER: There have been demands to ban The Diary of Anne Frank. 1099 01:00:52,733 --> 01:00:56,195 Classics by Shakespeare and Dickens, even dictionaries, 1100 01:00:56,278 --> 01:01:00,657 have all been purged from library shelves because someone found them offensive. 1101 01:01:00,741 --> 01:01:04,203 It was frightening. It was depressing. 1102 01:01:04,286 --> 01:01:07,373 I mean, what is this fear 1103 01:01:07,456 --> 01:01:10,250 that's gripping the country? 1104 01:01:10,334 --> 01:01:11,960 What about libraries who ban your books? 1105 01:01:12,044 --> 01:01:13,629 What are your feelings about those? 1106 01:01:13,712 --> 01:01:15,857 - You want to know how I feel about it? - Yeah, I mean... 1107 01:01:15,881 --> 01:01:18,967 I get crazy mad. I mean, I really... I get angry. 1108 01:01:19,051 --> 01:01:21,303 I'm offended. I think the kids have a right to read. 1109 01:01:21,387 --> 01:01:23,138 I think they have a right to know. 1110 01:01:23,222 --> 01:01:25,933 They have a right to get honest answers to their questions. 1111 01:01:26,016 --> 01:01:30,270 And-and banning a book isn't gonna change any of that. 1112 01:01:30,354 --> 01:01:32,606 {\an8}I used to get the hate phone calls. 1113 01:01:34,149 --> 01:01:38,404 {\an8}"Hello. I'm calling about such and such a book by Judy Blume. 1114 01:01:38,487 --> 01:01:40,989 Do you know what's in that book?" 1115 01:01:41,073 --> 01:01:44,326 "Why, indeed, I do. We published that book. 1116 01:01:44,410 --> 01:01:46,537 "The best thing I can say to you 1117 01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:50,874 "is that the First Amendment allows us to publish this book, 1118 01:01:50,958 --> 01:01:52,960 and it can appear anywhere." 1119 01:01:53,043 --> 01:01:54,503 (indistinct chatter, laughter) 1120 01:01:54,586 --> 01:01:56,588 REAGAN: Well, bless you, you have not wavered. 1121 01:01:56,672 --> 01:01:59,508 {\an8}JUDY: Phyllis Schlafly put out a booklet 1122 01:01:59,591 --> 01:02:01,927 {\an8}that said how to rid 1123 01:02:02,010 --> 01:02:05,472 your schools and libraries of Judy Blume books. 1124 01:02:05,556 --> 01:02:08,058 {\an8}I think they should be banned, right. 1125 01:02:08,142 --> 01:02:10,561 {\an8}I think they're a little bit too deep for the children. 1126 01:02:10,644 --> 01:02:14,481 JUDY: I mean, and then it just grew and it-it became crazy. 1127 01:02:14,565 --> 01:02:17,860 {\an8}"We want to remove this book and this book and this book and that." 1128 01:02:19,361 --> 01:02:22,739 They just didn't want the books to exist. 1129 01:02:22,823 --> 01:02:25,367 {\an8}ANNOUNCER: From Washington, Crossfire. 1130 01:02:25,451 --> 01:02:27,077 On the left, Tom Braden. 1131 01:02:27,161 --> 01:02:28,745 On the right, Pat Buchanan. 1132 01:02:28,829 --> 01:02:32,583 In the cross fire, award-winning writer of children's books, Judy Blume. 1133 01:02:32,666 --> 01:02:35,669 I was asked to do this show called Crossfire. 1134 01:02:35,752 --> 01:02:38,297 So I said, "Okay." 1135 01:02:38,380 --> 01:02:40,692 Ms. Blume looks like a very nice lady. What I wanted to ask you... 1136 01:02:40,716 --> 01:02:42,516 and I've looked through three of your books... 1137 01:02:42,551 --> 01:02:45,888 what is this preoccupation with sex 1138 01:02:45,971 --> 01:02:48,599 in books for ten-year-old children? 1139 01:02:48,682 --> 01:02:50,767 I had never heard of Pat Buchanan at that point. 1140 01:02:50,851 --> 01:02:55,772 There's a lesson for you... always know what you're getting yourself into. 1141 01:02:55,856 --> 01:02:57,900 Now, I looked at several of these, Ms. Blume, 1142 01:02:57,983 --> 01:03:00,194 and one of them talks about masturbation. 1143 01:03:00,277 --> 01:03:01,945 {\an8}Another one talks about a little boy 1144 01:03:02,029 --> 01:03:05,657 {\an8}who's, uh... who is window-peeping on his neighbor, a little girl. 1145 01:03:05,741 --> 01:03:07,784 {\an8}Another one talks about somebody throwing up. 1146 01:03:07,868 --> 01:03:08,994 Throwing up is sex? 1147 01:03:09,077 --> 01:03:10,996 Well, it has to do with bodily functions. 1148 01:03:11,079 --> 01:03:13,290 What is all this doing in a book for ten-year-olds? 1149 01:03:13,373 --> 01:03:14,642 There is no preoccupation with it. 1150 01:03:14,666 --> 01:03:17,770 Did you read the whole book, or did you just read pages that were paperclipped? 1151 01:03:17,794 --> 01:03:18,914 All right, here's the cover. 1152 01:03:18,962 --> 01:03:21,715 Pat Buchanan was coming after me, you know? 1153 01:03:21,798 --> 01:03:25,636 It's like he had a hammer, and it's like, "Whoa, what is with you?" 1154 01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:28,180 Why can't ten-year-olds... you write an interesting, 1155 01:03:28,263 --> 01:03:32,226 exciting book for ten-year-olds without getting into a discussion of masturbation? 1156 01:03:32,309 --> 01:03:36,647 He was attacking me and reading pages out of context. 1157 01:03:36,730 --> 01:03:39,608 First of all, Deenie is not about masturbation. 1158 01:03:39,691 --> 01:03:41,527 It's about a girl with scoliosis. 1159 01:03:41,610 --> 01:03:44,279 And he kept going at me, how that's not normal 1160 01:03:44,363 --> 01:03:48,075 and what a terrible thing, and finally, I said to him... 1161 01:03:48,158 --> 01:03:51,411 - Are you hung up about masturbation? Huh? - Well, it's all... you are. 1162 01:03:51,495 --> 01:03:53,389 You are hung up about this stuff. It's in these books. 1163 01:03:53,413 --> 01:03:55,582 One... one scene in one book. 1164 01:03:55,666 --> 01:03:58,377 (chuckling): Because I couldn't stand it anymore. 1165 01:03:58,460 --> 01:04:02,965 It was a very strange experience. 1166 01:04:05,551 --> 01:04:08,595 There were personal attacks coming from adults. 1167 01:04:09,596 --> 01:04:12,599 I was accused of all kinds of evildoing. 1168 01:04:15,811 --> 01:04:20,399 And once, because I am a supporter of Planned Parenthood, 1169 01:04:20,482 --> 01:04:25,279 I got something like 700 death threats in a day, 1170 01:04:25,362 --> 01:04:27,573 and... 1171 01:04:27,656 --> 01:04:30,075 we took that very seriously. 1172 01:04:31,577 --> 01:04:37,124 I used to wonder, when I would go out in public with an audience... 1173 01:04:37,207 --> 01:04:39,710 it would go through my head, you know, 1174 01:04:39,793 --> 01:04:43,922 "Is some angry parent gonna come in and shoot you?" 1175 01:04:45,048 --> 01:04:47,593 It never stopped me, and I did it, 1176 01:04:47,676 --> 01:04:53,015 but I learned that you can't debate the zealots. 1177 01:04:53,098 --> 01:04:56,476 I mean, there wasn't any point to it, really, 1178 01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:01,315 except making myself sick, so I stopped. 1179 01:05:01,398 --> 01:05:02,709 - Thank you, everyone. - (cheering and applause) 1180 01:05:02,733 --> 01:05:06,403 Instead, I discovered the National Coalition Against Censorship. 1181 01:05:07,487 --> 01:05:13,035 It made more sense for me to work to protect not just my books 1182 01:05:13,118 --> 01:05:15,329 but all of these books that were being attacked. 1183 01:05:15,412 --> 01:05:18,290 That was something positive that I could do. 1184 01:05:18,373 --> 01:05:21,251 No one here is talking about kids, 1185 01:05:21,335 --> 01:05:25,547 and they have very clear ideas about what they want to read and why. 1186 01:05:25,631 --> 01:05:29,968 And I know of one instance where-where a sixth-grade girl took a petition around, 1187 01:05:30,052 --> 01:05:34,014 collected hundreds of signatures, went before the school board 1188 01:05:34,097 --> 01:05:38,101 and spoke eloquently on the behalf of these books. 1189 01:05:38,185 --> 01:05:40,646 {\an8}My parents have a right to tell me what I can read, 1190 01:05:40,729 --> 01:05:44,524 {\an8}but somebody else's parents do not have a right to tell me what I can read. 1191 01:05:44,608 --> 01:05:46,610 (cheering and applause) 1192 01:05:49,780 --> 01:05:52,908 JUDY: The last book that I did with Dick was 1193 01:05:52,991 --> 01:05:55,285 Here's to You, Rachel Robinson. 1194 01:05:55,369 --> 01:05:59,206 And in that book is a teenage boy. 1195 01:05:59,289 --> 01:06:01,124 He's an angry kid. 1196 01:06:01,208 --> 01:06:04,586 And he's in the kitchen with his younger sister. 1197 01:06:04,670 --> 01:06:08,590 He pours himself a glass of grape juice, and he holds it up to Rachel, 1198 01:06:08,674 --> 01:06:11,510 and he says, "Here's to you, Rachel Robinson. 1199 01:06:11,593 --> 01:06:14,805 Here's to my whole fucking family." 1200 01:06:17,974 --> 01:06:22,437 Dick Jackson said, "Judy, you know no book club is gonna take it. 1201 01:06:24,022 --> 01:06:26,983 "You can use 'fricking.' 1202 01:06:27,067 --> 01:06:31,321 You can use, uh, any number of words." 1203 01:06:31,405 --> 01:06:33,990 He said, "But it's entirely up to you, 1204 01:06:34,074 --> 01:06:37,786 and I stand behind you, whatever you decide to do." 1205 01:06:38,787 --> 01:06:41,206 And my son, my son, who was grown then, 1206 01:06:41,289 --> 01:06:43,417 came into the apartment that afternoon, 1207 01:06:43,500 --> 01:06:47,504 and I told him this story. 1208 01:06:52,634 --> 01:06:55,762 And he said to me... 1209 01:06:55,846 --> 01:06:57,889 "You're Judy Blume. 1210 01:07:00,058 --> 01:07:02,644 "You're honest. You're truthful. 1211 01:07:02,728 --> 01:07:04,896 "That's what you've always done. 1212 01:07:04,980 --> 01:07:07,774 How can you not be honest here?" 1213 01:07:07,858 --> 01:07:10,569 And I heard from a lot of people. 1214 01:07:10,652 --> 01:07:13,113 Said, "I won't let my child read this book." 1215 01:07:13,196 --> 01:07:15,866 Your child is probably out there on the playground yelling, 1216 01:07:15,949 --> 01:07:18,535 "Fucking, fucking, fucking," all over the place, 1217 01:07:18,618 --> 01:07:21,121 because it's just a word. 1218 01:07:21,204 --> 01:07:24,833 It's a... I-If you look it up in the dictionary... which I did... 1219 01:07:24,916 --> 01:07:29,045 it says "a meaningless word intensifier." 1220 01:07:29,129 --> 01:07:30,589 I love that. 1221 01:07:30,672 --> 01:07:33,592 "A meaningless word intensifier." 1222 01:07:33,675 --> 01:07:36,052 But it's real. 1223 01:07:36,136 --> 01:07:38,638 And Charles meant it. 1224 01:07:38,722 --> 01:07:40,849 And so there it is. 1225 01:07:54,196 --> 01:07:59,367 I kept working and writing all through the challenges. 1226 01:07:59,451 --> 01:08:01,119 I never stopped. 1227 01:08:01,203 --> 01:08:02,913 (indistinct chatter, laughter) 1228 01:08:02,996 --> 01:08:05,373 How many times you been married, Judy? 1229 01:08:05,457 --> 01:08:07,501 Oh, it's a very painful question for me to answer. 1230 01:08:07,584 --> 01:08:09,937 - Give me a painful answer. - I've been married and divorced twice. 1231 01:08:09,961 --> 01:08:11,081 - PANELISTS: Twice? - Mm-hmm. 1232 01:08:11,129 --> 01:08:14,174 - JUDY: But I can explain it all. I can. - (laughter) 1233 01:08:14,257 --> 01:08:17,135 You know, I had a wonderful career, 1234 01:08:17,219 --> 01:08:21,890 and I had great kids, and I had friends. 1235 01:08:23,183 --> 01:08:29,064 I had made up my mind that I just wasn't gonna have that kind of 1236 01:08:29,147 --> 01:08:33,235 romantic, loving, long-lasting relationship. 1237 01:08:33,318 --> 01:08:35,779 It just wasn't in the cards for me. 1238 01:08:35,862 --> 01:08:39,533 I thought I made peace with that... 1239 01:08:39,616 --> 01:08:41,451 when I met George. 1240 01:08:42,619 --> 01:08:45,455 The world's most wonderful person. 1241 01:08:45,539 --> 01:08:47,582 How lucky. 1242 01:08:47,666 --> 01:08:49,668 How lucky I was. 1243 01:08:51,086 --> 01:08:53,672 Oh, my God. 1244 01:08:53,755 --> 01:08:55,131 (Judy laughs) 1245 01:08:55,215 --> 01:08:57,759 {\an8}"Man thinking profound thoughts..." 1246 01:08:57,843 --> 01:08:59,821 {\an8}- GEORGE: "Without words." - JUDY: What? "Without words"? 1247 01:08:59,845 --> 01:09:01,304 (laughing) 1248 01:09:05,058 --> 01:09:08,854 George and I met in December of '79. 1249 01:09:08,937 --> 01:09:11,231 George was with me through all of the '80s 1250 01:09:11,314 --> 01:09:13,483 and my censorship days. 1251 01:09:13,567 --> 01:09:16,820 {\an8}"Gray-tufted coffee sipper." 1252 01:09:16,903 --> 01:09:19,739 He was a law professor. He was brilliant. 1253 01:09:22,158 --> 01:09:24,411 - "Oy vey. What a date." - (laughing) 1254 01:09:24,494 --> 01:09:25,871 Yeah, yeah. 1255 01:09:25,954 --> 01:09:28,665 JUDY: We had a blind date, and we went out to dinner. 1256 01:09:28,748 --> 01:09:30,828 Did I make a move on you right there, then and there? 1257 01:09:30,876 --> 01:09:32,478 - No, I... No, I think you said... - No. No. 1258 01:09:32,502 --> 01:09:34,212 - "Can I kiss you?" - Oh. 1259 01:09:34,296 --> 01:09:36,464 - Right, I was really ahead of my time. - (laughs) 1260 01:09:36,548 --> 01:09:38,317 - GEORGE: "Can I kiss you?" Right? - JUDY: Yes, you did. 1261 01:09:38,341 --> 01:09:40,278 - You asked. You were very nice. - GEORGE (laughing): Right. Right. 1262 01:09:40,302 --> 01:09:42,512 I tried to take her out the next Tuesday night again, 1263 01:09:42,596 --> 01:09:45,056 but she said, "I already have a date," and so I said... 1264 01:09:45,140 --> 01:09:48,059 - So I went out... No. No, no, no, no, no. - Go ahead. Go ahead. 1265 01:09:48,143 --> 01:09:52,314 I went out, and then you called later, and you said, 1266 01:09:52,397 --> 01:09:55,233 - "Can I come over for a late date?" - "Are you... Is the date over?" 1267 01:09:55,317 --> 01:09:58,528 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. - Right? And you came over. 1268 01:09:58,612 --> 01:10:01,698 And that was, um, 41 and a half years ago. 1269 01:10:01,781 --> 01:10:04,367 - I never left. - And he never left. 1270 01:10:04,451 --> 01:10:06,661 ♪ ♪ 1271 01:10:06,745 --> 01:10:09,372 JUDY: George is magic. 1272 01:10:09,456 --> 01:10:12,918 He's a wonderful complement for me. 1273 01:10:13,001 --> 01:10:15,670 I can always find something to worry about. 1274 01:10:15,754 --> 01:10:17,547 He's not a worrier. 1275 01:10:17,631 --> 01:10:21,176 He's easygoing, nonjudgmental. 1276 01:10:23,970 --> 01:10:25,597 I'm very attached. 1277 01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:31,227 I promised myself I would never, ever get so attached, 1278 01:10:31,311 --> 01:10:33,980 but I did, and I am. 1279 01:10:34,064 --> 01:10:35,273 Did I add the poppy seeds? 1280 01:10:35,357 --> 01:10:37,293 - JUDY: You added the poppy seeds. - (laughs) Okay. 1281 01:10:37,317 --> 01:10:40,278 {\an8}GEORGE: I didn't really know who Judy Blume was. 1282 01:10:40,362 --> 01:10:41,988 {\an8}I don't know what I would've done 1283 01:10:42,072 --> 01:10:43,531 {\an8}if I had held her in awe. 1284 01:10:43,615 --> 01:10:46,201 You can't... you're not gonna start a relationship with somebody 1285 01:10:46,284 --> 01:10:47,911 if you hold in awe of them, 1286 01:10:47,994 --> 01:10:50,205 because you're not... you're not relating to them. 1287 01:10:50,288 --> 01:10:54,125 You're relating to the... to the image. 1288 01:10:54,209 --> 01:10:56,461 And this wasn't an image. This was just a girl. 1289 01:10:56,544 --> 01:11:00,048 - (laughing) - (laughing): "Just a girl." 1290 01:11:00,131 --> 01:11:02,217 Just another girl. 1291 01:11:03,301 --> 01:11:07,931 Hi. Welcome to Santa Fe, New Mexico, and welcome to my home. 1292 01:11:08,014 --> 01:11:10,308 Come on in. 1293 01:11:10,392 --> 01:11:11,935 This is my office. 1294 01:11:12,018 --> 01:11:13,937 I sit at the typewriter and type away. 1295 01:11:14,020 --> 01:11:16,815 Sometimes I sit at the desk and scribble. 1296 01:11:16,898 --> 01:11:19,067 This desk is like an old friend. 1297 01:11:19,150 --> 01:11:22,362 It's moved with me six times in the last six years. 1298 01:11:22,445 --> 01:11:24,280 ♪ ♪ 1299 01:11:27,701 --> 01:11:30,286 George and I lived in Santa Fe. 1300 01:11:31,329 --> 01:11:34,040 His daughter Amanda was 12. 1301 01:11:34,124 --> 01:11:36,626 We became a new family. 1302 01:11:36,710 --> 01:11:39,254 It takes a lot of working out. 1303 01:11:39,337 --> 01:11:42,007 It takes a lot of getting to know each other. 1304 01:11:42,090 --> 01:11:44,175 AMANDA COOPER: You could tell that she and my dad, 1305 01:11:44,259 --> 01:11:47,137 {\an8}like, it was the right thing had happened. 1306 01:11:47,220 --> 01:11:49,222 {\an8}And so it was really, really good. 1307 01:11:49,305 --> 01:11:51,057 JUDY: It's so beautiful. 1308 01:11:51,141 --> 01:11:52,475 So beautiful. 1309 01:11:52,559 --> 01:11:54,644 AMANDA: Of course, I was a little girl, 1310 01:11:54,728 --> 01:11:56,896 (chuckling): so I knew who Judy Blume was. 1311 01:11:56,980 --> 01:11:59,482 And they were very embarrassing, 'cause they... 1312 01:11:59,566 --> 01:12:01,818 when you're young and they're giggling 1313 01:12:01,901 --> 01:12:06,364 and, you know, kissing and hugging around the supermarket. 1314 01:12:06,448 --> 01:12:08,616 But, you know, they're still like that today. 1315 01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:11,244 It's an incredible love story. 1316 01:12:11,327 --> 01:12:14,122 JUDY: I was really happy. 1317 01:12:14,205 --> 01:12:17,292 Maybe for the first time in my adult life. 1318 01:12:18,376 --> 01:12:24,090 And it was then that I was able to write the book Tiger Eyes. 1319 01:12:25,550 --> 01:12:28,803 I thought I was telling a story 1320 01:12:28,887 --> 01:12:33,475 that I had heard about a young girl whose father died 1321 01:12:33,558 --> 01:12:39,105 and the mother took her children to live with relatives 1322 01:12:39,189 --> 01:12:41,691 in another part of the country. 1323 01:12:41,775 --> 01:12:45,320 Now I look at Tiger Eyes, 1324 01:12:45,403 --> 01:12:48,573 and I know that it's about 1325 01:12:48,656 --> 01:12:50,742 the loss of my father. 1326 01:12:53,286 --> 01:12:55,371 I was engaged. 1327 01:12:55,455 --> 01:12:58,833 Invitations were out to the wedding. 1328 01:12:58,917 --> 01:13:01,127 My brother came back from overseas. 1329 01:13:01,211 --> 01:13:03,338 My brother was in the Air Force. 1330 01:13:03,421 --> 01:13:05,090 And I remember coming home, 1331 01:13:05,173 --> 01:13:09,677 my father said, "What a banner year for the Sussmans," 1332 01:13:09,761 --> 01:13:11,805 and then he got pains. 1333 01:13:12,889 --> 01:13:14,933 And I was with him. 1334 01:13:15,016 --> 01:13:18,269 I sat on the floor holding his hand, and he said, 1335 01:13:18,353 --> 01:13:22,899 "Oh, shit. Oh, shit, what terrible timing." 1336 01:13:25,610 --> 01:13:30,281 And he died. It was like, "This isn't real. This can't be real." 1337 01:13:30,365 --> 01:13:33,326 I mean, he was 54 years old. 1338 01:13:37,831 --> 01:13:40,917 My mother, she told us at the funeral, 1339 01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:43,795 "We're not gonna give anybody a show here. 1340 01:13:43,878 --> 01:13:46,589 We're not gonna get emotional." 1341 01:13:47,799 --> 01:13:51,136 "I feel the sweat trickling down inside my blouse, 1342 01:13:51,219 --> 01:13:54,764 "making a little pool in my bra. 1343 01:13:54,848 --> 01:13:59,686 "Jason clings to Mom's hand and keeps glancing at her, then at me. 1344 01:13:59,769 --> 01:14:01,855 "My mother looks straight ahead. 1345 01:14:01,938 --> 01:14:07,110 "She doesn't even wipe away the tears that are rolling down her cheeks. 1346 01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:19,164 "I've never felt so alone in my life. 1347 01:14:20,582 --> 01:14:22,333 (voice breaking): I shift from one..." 1348 01:14:22,417 --> 01:14:24,210 I can't do this. 1349 01:14:24,294 --> 01:14:27,505 I will do it, I will do it, but it's very hard. 1350 01:14:30,133 --> 01:14:31,926 (inhales deeply) 1351 01:14:32,010 --> 01:14:33,344 (exhales) 1352 01:14:33,428 --> 01:14:35,221 ♪ ♪ 1353 01:14:35,305 --> 01:14:37,182 "I shift from one foot to the other 1354 01:14:37,265 --> 01:14:40,935 "because my mother's shoes are too tight and my feet hurt. 1355 01:14:41,019 --> 01:14:43,146 "I concentrate on the pain, 1356 01:14:43,229 --> 01:14:46,816 "and the blisters that are forming on my little toes, 1357 01:14:46,900 --> 01:14:49,402 "because that way I don't have to think about the coffin 1358 01:14:49,485 --> 01:14:51,988 "that is being lowered into the ground. 1359 01:14:52,071 --> 01:14:55,450 Or that my father's body is inside it." 1360 01:14:58,369 --> 01:15:03,541 I think it was cathartic for me, in a way, 1361 01:15:03,625 --> 01:15:08,838 to finally say goodbye to my father. 1362 01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:13,092 CHILD: "Dear Judy, My father died, 1363 01:15:13,176 --> 01:15:15,470 "and it's the worst thing that ever happened to me. 1364 01:15:15,553 --> 01:15:19,182 The teachers and the other kids say that I should have gotten over it by now." 1365 01:15:19,265 --> 01:15:21,809 CHILD 2: "I know I shouldn't be telling you all this, 1366 01:15:21,893 --> 01:15:24,312 "that I should be telling it to a doctor, 1367 01:15:24,395 --> 01:15:25,897 "but I'm scared. 1368 01:15:25,980 --> 01:15:28,942 So please, please, please listen." 1369 01:15:29,025 --> 01:15:31,945 CHILD 3: "What I want is someone to tell me, 1370 01:15:32,028 --> 01:15:34,405 'You'll live through this.'" 1371 01:15:37,617 --> 01:15:40,161 This is 1982. 1372 01:15:42,163 --> 01:15:47,085 "Dear Judy, I know you are probably quite busy answering other people's letters, 1373 01:15:47,168 --> 01:15:50,296 "but I was thrilled when I found out I could write to you. 1374 01:15:50,380 --> 01:15:53,466 "The most recent book I have read was Tiger Eyes. 1375 01:15:53,549 --> 01:15:55,551 KAREN CHILSTROM and JUDY: "It was exceptional. 1376 01:15:55,635 --> 01:15:58,638 {\an8}"It very much tells the story of things 1377 01:15:58,721 --> 01:16:01,474 {\an8}that have also happened to me lately." 1378 01:16:01,557 --> 01:16:04,519 "I really need someone to talk to. 1379 01:16:06,062 --> 01:16:10,024 "Last December, my brother committed suicide. 1380 01:16:10,108 --> 01:16:12,443 "I don't even know how he did it. 1381 01:16:12,527 --> 01:16:14,570 "I very much would like to know, 1382 01:16:14,654 --> 01:16:17,740 "and I was wondering if you have any suggestions. 1383 01:16:17,824 --> 01:16:20,576 "If you write me, I'll write you back. 1384 01:16:20,660 --> 01:16:23,955 "I've sent you a stamp to pay for the postage. 1385 01:16:24,038 --> 01:16:25,290 "I love you. 1386 01:16:25,373 --> 01:16:28,459 Sincerely, your friend, Karen." 1387 01:16:30,211 --> 01:16:32,213 Oh, that was the beginning. 1388 01:16:35,133 --> 01:16:36,884 KAREN: I felt really alone. 1389 01:16:36,968 --> 01:16:39,345 I started to write to her in seventh grade 1390 01:16:39,429 --> 01:16:41,764 when I was 12. 1391 01:16:41,848 --> 01:16:45,685 And in eighth grade, at 13, 1392 01:16:45,768 --> 01:16:49,022 I... I-I realized that-that I needed more help. 1393 01:16:49,105 --> 01:16:50,648 I needed more help. 1394 01:16:50,732 --> 01:16:53,192 I was in a really difficult point in my life. 1395 01:16:56,946 --> 01:17:00,408 "Dear Judy, Do you really remember me? 1396 01:17:00,491 --> 01:17:04,495 "I suppose that you get tons of letters just like mine. 1397 01:17:04,579 --> 01:17:06,956 "I'm the one whose brother committed suicide 1398 01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:08,916 and who had all kinds of questions." 1399 01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,503 I remember composing it, 1400 01:17:12,587 --> 01:17:17,175 thinking, i-if I can just say it the right way... 1401 01:17:17,258 --> 01:17:20,053 you know, maybe not make it sound too big 1402 01:17:20,136 --> 01:17:22,930 or-or not make it sound too small... 1403 01:17:23,014 --> 01:17:26,434 I-I believe that-that if I could just find the right language 1404 01:17:26,517 --> 01:17:30,855 that-that Judy... Judy would be the one 1405 01:17:30,938 --> 01:17:32,940 that I could talk to. 1406 01:17:40,740 --> 01:17:42,742 It was hard to reach out. 1407 01:17:42,825 --> 01:17:46,537 I said, "What's complicated about my brother's suicide 1408 01:17:46,621 --> 01:17:49,707 is that he-he was the one who abused me." 1409 01:17:51,542 --> 01:17:53,252 I just needed to be able 1410 01:17:53,336 --> 01:17:56,672 to tell another human being, 1411 01:17:56,756 --> 01:18:00,259 like, "Look what happened to me." 1412 01:18:01,386 --> 01:18:04,931 JUDY: She was just so scared of, 1413 01:18:05,014 --> 01:18:09,060 you know, how her family would react 1414 01:18:09,143 --> 01:18:11,562 if she really... 1415 01:18:11,646 --> 01:18:14,565 if she really wanted to talk about this. 1416 01:18:16,901 --> 01:18:19,821 KAREN: I said, "Judy, I feel very alone. 1417 01:18:19,904 --> 01:18:23,699 I don't have anyone to turn to." 1418 01:18:23,783 --> 01:18:26,285 Judy was my last chance. 1419 01:18:26,369 --> 01:18:31,332 Judy was the last chance I was willing to take at that point in my life. 1420 01:18:40,675 --> 01:18:44,011 "Remember that if you do get overwhelmed by your feelings, 1421 01:18:44,095 --> 01:18:45,596 you can write about them." 1422 01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:49,892 "I think you already know that writing can be excellent therapy, 1423 01:18:49,976 --> 01:18:53,980 "whether it's in letters to me or in your journal or whatever. 1424 01:18:54,063 --> 01:18:56,774 Keep getting those feelings out." 1425 01:18:56,858 --> 01:18:59,235 I didn't have anyone growing up 1426 01:18:59,318 --> 01:19:02,530 who gave me the permission to tell my story. 1427 01:19:02,613 --> 01:19:08,077 She saw a person who was hurting 1428 01:19:08,161 --> 01:19:10,413 and didn't give up on me. 1429 01:19:10,496 --> 01:19:12,540 "You are a survivor, 1430 01:19:12,623 --> 01:19:15,501 "and you should feel very proud that you are. 1431 01:19:15,585 --> 01:19:18,838 I am amazed by you." 1432 01:19:20,006 --> 01:19:23,926 That one small act of kindness... 1433 01:19:24,010 --> 01:19:26,971 the 20 minutes it took her 1434 01:19:27,054 --> 01:19:29,891 to write me a letter 1435 01:19:29,974 --> 01:19:33,478 in response to each of my letters... 1436 01:19:33,561 --> 01:19:35,396 saved my life. 1437 01:19:36,898 --> 01:19:39,734 Every time I had a birthday, I was writing her, "I had a birthday." 1438 01:19:39,817 --> 01:19:41,569 "I'm 16 now." "I'm 17 now." 1439 01:19:41,652 --> 01:19:43,404 "I'm 23 now." "I'm getting married now." 1440 01:19:43,488 --> 01:19:45,865 (laughing): "I'm having a child now." Right? 1441 01:19:45,948 --> 01:19:48,868 I have shared all of my milestones with her. 1442 01:19:49,869 --> 01:19:53,706 She rejoiced always in what I was doing now 1443 01:19:53,789 --> 01:19:57,168 and what new healthy relationships I had created. 1444 01:20:03,299 --> 01:20:06,260 JUDY: The letters kept me close 1445 01:20:06,344 --> 01:20:11,349 to all these kids of different ages, 1446 01:20:11,432 --> 01:20:13,935 but sometimes it was hard. 1447 01:20:14,018 --> 01:20:16,729 I'm not professionally trained, 1448 01:20:16,812 --> 01:20:21,108 and eventually, it sent me to a therapist. 1449 01:20:21,192 --> 01:20:24,195 You know, I remember her saying to me... 1450 01:20:26,531 --> 01:20:30,326 "You can't save all these kids, Judy. 1451 01:20:30,409 --> 01:20:34,163 Your job here is to be supportive." 1452 01:20:35,248 --> 01:20:37,833 "Dear Ms. Blume, I received your letter. 1453 01:20:37,917 --> 01:20:40,836 "Those few words meant a lot to me. 1454 01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:44,840 "But what made me happiest was that you signed it 'Judy.' 1455 01:20:44,924 --> 01:20:48,553 "So please permit me to sign this short note. 1456 01:20:48,636 --> 01:20:51,013 Love, Lorrie." 1457 01:20:51,097 --> 01:20:52,723 (chuckling) 1458 01:20:53,808 --> 01:20:57,603 LORRIE: At Bryn Mawr, where I went to college, when I was graduating, 1459 01:20:57,687 --> 01:21:01,065 there was some drama going on with my parents. 1460 01:21:01,148 --> 01:21:05,861 I called Judy, and I-I explained, and I said, "Can you come?" 1461 01:21:05,945 --> 01:21:10,866 And she and George very firmly said yes. 1462 01:21:11,867 --> 01:21:17,415 That was one of the kindest things anyone's ever done for me. 1463 01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:21,002 My classmates were like, 1464 01:21:21,085 --> 01:21:23,546 (laughing): "Why is Judy Blume at our graduation? 1465 01:21:23,629 --> 01:21:25,631 Does she have a relative here?" 1466 01:21:26,799 --> 01:21:29,010 "May 29, 1990. 1467 01:21:29,093 --> 01:21:31,887 "Dear Lorrie, George and I had a lovely time. 1468 01:21:31,971 --> 01:21:33,973 "You're exactly like your letters: 1469 01:21:34,056 --> 01:21:36,642 "intelligent, funny, warm and very lovable. 1470 01:21:36,726 --> 01:21:39,186 We loved being with you. Judy." 1471 01:21:46,277 --> 01:21:49,572 JUDY: George and I had gotten a summer home on Martha's Vineyard. 1472 01:21:51,198 --> 01:21:53,868 This is my favorite boat. 1473 01:21:53,951 --> 01:21:57,413 I spent 20 summers on the Vineyard. 1474 01:21:57,496 --> 01:22:01,751 My son Larry grew up, and I continued to write about Fudge... 1475 01:22:02,877 --> 01:22:05,296 ...also based on my grandson now. 1476 01:22:05,379 --> 01:22:10,176 But I was ready to write about adult characters again. 1477 01:22:10,259 --> 01:22:11,969 {\an8}PAMELA WALLIN: 22 books she's written, 1478 01:22:12,053 --> 01:22:13,971 {\an8}and the latest one is called Summer Sisters. 1479 01:22:14,055 --> 01:22:15,640 {\an8}It's all about friendship. 1480 01:22:15,723 --> 01:22:20,269 Summer Sisters is a story of growing up over 20 years. 1481 01:22:20,353 --> 01:22:24,398 Um, the girls go from being 12 in 1977 1482 01:22:24,482 --> 01:22:27,318 - to being 30 in 1995. - Mm-hmm. 1483 01:22:27,401 --> 01:22:29,862 WALLIN: And have you just, in a way, kept pace? 1484 01:22:29,945 --> 01:22:33,866 I mean, for the... for the young girls that were reading you 20 years ago, 1485 01:22:33,949 --> 01:22:35,534 now they want to read this? 1486 01:22:35,618 --> 01:22:37,620 - One hopes. (laughs) - I mean, do you... Yeah. 1487 01:22:37,703 --> 01:22:41,082 JUDY: I wanted to write about women 1488 01:22:41,165 --> 01:22:43,376 because I now knew things about being a woman 1489 01:22:43,459 --> 01:22:46,462 that maybe I didn't know when I started out 1490 01:22:46,545 --> 01:22:50,132 or I didn't want to know or I didn't want to acknowledge. 1491 01:22:51,676 --> 01:22:56,055 {\an8}In the Unlikely Event is the book I was meant to write. 1492 01:22:56,138 --> 01:22:58,391 {\an8}That story was inside me. 1493 01:22:58,474 --> 01:23:01,143 You know, it's based on something that happened 1494 01:23:01,227 --> 01:23:06,774 in my hometown of Elizabeth, New Jersey, when I was 14 years old. 1495 01:23:06,857 --> 01:23:10,820 REPORTER: Balls of flame mushroomed over the entire area. 1496 01:23:10,903 --> 01:23:13,239 It was almost an indescribable scene. 1497 01:23:13,322 --> 01:23:17,326 JUDY: When three planes fell from the sky 1498 01:23:17,410 --> 01:23:19,829 all within two months of each other. 1499 01:23:21,622 --> 01:23:24,500 Here I was back in the '50s, 1500 01:23:24,583 --> 01:23:29,171 a decade I said I couldn't stand and it was such a boring decade, 1501 01:23:29,255 --> 01:23:32,174 and here is this story 1502 01:23:32,258 --> 01:23:34,927 {\an8}just waiting for me. 1503 01:23:35,010 --> 01:23:37,930 {\an8}When I finished In the Unlikely Event, 1504 01:23:38,013 --> 01:23:43,102 {\an8}I did know this is my last long book. 1505 01:23:44,645 --> 01:23:48,107 It's not that I don't have the imagination or that... 1506 01:23:48,190 --> 01:23:52,111 It's just that I can't sit in this room 1507 01:23:52,194 --> 01:23:55,030 for three more years or five more years. 1508 01:23:55,114 --> 01:23:58,451 I just don't have that. I want to be out. 1509 01:23:58,534 --> 01:24:00,911 I want to do... I want to be in the world. 1510 01:24:00,995 --> 01:24:03,456 ♪ ♪ 1511 01:24:06,584 --> 01:24:09,211 George and I went on a quest. 1512 01:24:09,295 --> 01:24:14,467 We decided, "Let's try to find a place to go for a month." 1513 01:24:15,634 --> 01:24:18,429 You know how you never know when you're gonna fall in love? 1514 01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:22,641 We fell absolutely in love with Key West. 1515 01:24:28,898 --> 01:24:31,484 I never planned for having a bookstore. 1516 01:24:31,567 --> 01:24:34,487 It was never in the fantasies at all. 1517 01:24:34,570 --> 01:24:39,283 But along came this fantastic opportunity, 1518 01:24:39,366 --> 01:24:44,163 and before I knew it, we had a bookstore. 1519 01:24:44,246 --> 01:24:45,247 (laughing) 1520 01:24:45,331 --> 01:24:50,211 It's been five glorious years, and I love it. 1521 01:24:51,504 --> 01:24:54,340 Poor Judy eats her lunch on a piece of paper towel. 1522 01:24:54,423 --> 01:24:56,342 {\an8}MICHAEL NELSON: During the hurricane, 1523 01:24:56,425 --> 01:24:58,511 {\an8}all my furniture, everything, 1524 01:24:58,594 --> 01:25:00,429 {\an8}totally gone. 1525 01:25:00,513 --> 01:25:02,640 {\an8}And, uh, so I got a new place, 1526 01:25:02,723 --> 01:25:04,809 {\an8}and Judy gave me all these 1527 01:25:04,892 --> 01:25:07,144 {\an8}pieces of furniture that she had. 1528 01:25:07,228 --> 01:25:12,817 And I always bring people in and I say, "This is Judy's desk. This is her chair. 1529 01:25:12,900 --> 01:25:15,236 This is her bed that she probably masturbated on." 1530 01:25:15,319 --> 01:25:17,488 (laughter) 1531 01:25:18,656 --> 01:25:20,741 It's like a little museum. 1532 01:25:20,825 --> 01:25:24,286 EMILY BERG: I have a lot of furniture from Judy, too, actually. 1533 01:25:24,370 --> 01:25:26,831 {\an8}And I don't give them that tour, but maybe I should start. 1534 01:25:26,914 --> 01:25:28,541 {\an8}I also have a desk that she... 1535 01:25:28,624 --> 01:25:29,792 {\an8}JUDY: And two beds. 1536 01:25:29,875 --> 01:25:31,186 {\an8}- And two beds. - MICHAEL: Two beds. 1537 01:25:31,210 --> 01:25:33,003 (light laughter) 1538 01:25:33,087 --> 01:25:35,172 Like, I've been teaching for... this is my... 1539 01:25:35,256 --> 01:25:38,008 this will be my 23rd year of teaching middle school, 1540 01:25:38,092 --> 01:25:42,012 and I feel like you capture in Blubber this truth about children 1541 01:25:42,096 --> 01:25:46,559 and the adults who ignore them, um, that is still true. 1542 01:25:46,642 --> 01:25:51,730 JUDY: We proudly have little signs taped up everywhere: 1543 01:25:51,814 --> 01:25:53,941 "We sell banned books." 1544 01:25:54,024 --> 01:25:57,653 Because again, you know what? It's happening today. 1545 01:26:01,365 --> 01:26:04,076 {\an8}If you want to know where we are 1546 01:26:04,159 --> 01:26:06,537 {\an8}as a country, 1547 01:26:06,620 --> 01:26:09,248 {\an8}you want to know what conversations are bubbling 1548 01:26:09,331 --> 01:26:12,084 or where our disputes are, where we're at odds, 1549 01:26:12,167 --> 01:26:14,044 look at the banned books list. 1550 01:26:14,128 --> 01:26:15,814 {\an8}REPORTER: The Katy Independent School District 1551 01:26:15,838 --> 01:26:19,466 {\an8}is one of at least a dozen Texas districts that have removed books about race, 1552 01:26:19,550 --> 01:26:21,218 {\an8}gender and sexual identity. 1553 01:26:21,302 --> 01:26:25,180 {\an8}I don't want to spend my money on this filth, and it's in our libraries. 1554 01:26:25,264 --> 01:26:26,867 {\an8}JASON REYNOLDS: We don't want to talk about race. 1555 01:26:26,891 --> 01:26:27,933 {\an8}We still can't do it. 1556 01:26:28,017 --> 01:26:29,953 {\an8}And that's why these books are on the banned list. 1557 01:26:29,977 --> 01:26:31,729 If you take my books off the shelves, 1558 01:26:31,812 --> 01:26:33,898 there are thousands and thousands of young people 1559 01:26:33,981 --> 01:26:36,483 who will no longer have access to that information, 1560 01:26:36,567 --> 01:26:38,527 just because you had a problem with it. 1561 01:26:38,611 --> 01:26:42,531 In the last four or five years, LGBTQIA issues 1562 01:26:42,615 --> 01:26:46,577 are at the top of the challenged and banned books lists. 1563 01:26:46,660 --> 01:26:50,414 {\an8}It's saying my existence is so scary 1564 01:26:50,497 --> 01:26:52,458 {\an8}and so monstrous 1565 01:26:52,541 --> 01:26:54,418 {\an8}as that it is not acceptable 1566 01:26:54,501 --> 01:26:56,337 {\an8}to show to children. 1567 01:26:56,420 --> 01:27:02,301 It is shocking, shocking, you know, that this is going on, 1568 01:27:02,384 --> 01:27:06,096 just as if time stood still 1569 01:27:06,180 --> 01:27:08,390 and we're back in the '80s. 1570 01:27:08,474 --> 01:27:11,977 Our culture is starting to resist the idea of sex education for young women. 1571 01:27:12,061 --> 01:27:14,438 {\an8}And while it should, in some way, feel outdated, 1572 01:27:14,521 --> 01:27:16,774 {\an8}the idea that you need to consult a book 1573 01:27:16,857 --> 01:27:20,903 in a kind of secretive way to find out what's going on with your own body, 1574 01:27:20,986 --> 01:27:23,405 in a lot of ways, it's becoming the reality again. 1575 01:27:24,531 --> 01:27:26,676 JUSTIN CHANDA: Forever... is one of the top banned books, 1576 01:27:26,700 --> 01:27:28,619 you know, year after year. 1577 01:27:28,702 --> 01:27:32,122 {\an8}Margaret gets banned, uh, because it talks about bras. 1578 01:27:32,206 --> 01:27:34,124 {\an8}In fact, I think that's where I met her 1579 01:27:34,208 --> 01:27:36,543 {\an8}was at a banned books event. 1580 01:27:36,627 --> 01:27:41,507 I mean, the-the characters in my books do all the things that 17-year-olds, 1581 01:27:41,590 --> 01:27:44,969 um, seniors in high school do. 1582 01:27:45,052 --> 01:27:48,222 (laughs) And that same sort of honesty 1583 01:27:48,305 --> 01:27:52,434 that Judy Blume laid the path for 50 years ago. 1584 01:27:57,106 --> 01:27:59,024 (school bell rings) 1585 01:27:59,108 --> 01:28:01,294 PRINCIPAL (over intercom): All students, cell phones are not 1586 01:28:01,318 --> 01:28:04,655 to be used in this building for any reason. 1587 01:28:04,738 --> 01:28:08,033 {\an8}The hallways are to be a calm environment, 1588 01:28:08,117 --> 01:28:11,453 {\an8}free from shouting, pushing and any other reckless behavior. 1589 01:28:11,537 --> 01:28:13,998 Thank you, and have a great day. 1590 01:28:19,044 --> 01:28:23,674 I've read Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing, Starring Sally J. Freedman as Herself 1591 01:28:23,757 --> 01:28:26,635 and, um, Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret. 1592 01:28:26,719 --> 01:28:28,303 This is Deenie. 1593 01:28:28,387 --> 01:28:30,848 This is my favorite book right now. 1594 01:28:30,931 --> 01:28:32,725 I like Blubber. 1595 01:28:32,808 --> 01:28:35,936 I've read Deenie and Tiger Eyes. 1596 01:28:36,020 --> 01:28:38,439 GIRL: My mom actually read a whole bunch of her books, 1597 01:28:38,522 --> 01:28:40,733 and I definitely remember, um, reading 1598 01:28:40,816 --> 01:28:43,569 Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret when I was, like, very little. 1599 01:28:45,279 --> 01:28:48,741 {\an8}CHANDA: Her books rank among the highest-selling books 1600 01:28:48,824 --> 01:28:51,035 {\an8}every year, every year, every year. 1601 01:28:55,289 --> 01:29:00,961 A book like Forever... still sits alongside contemporary YA. 1602 01:29:01,045 --> 01:29:04,173 She completely changed the space of YA. 1603 01:29:04,256 --> 01:29:07,092 Beyond that, she certainly changed the way 1604 01:29:07,176 --> 01:29:11,305 female sexuality is talked about in the culture across the board. 1605 01:29:11,388 --> 01:29:14,975 DUNHAM: She allowed young women to be 1606 01:29:15,059 --> 01:29:20,773 as complicated and messy and dark and light and funny as we are. 1607 01:29:20,856 --> 01:29:22,983 Stop freaking the eff out. 1608 01:29:23,067 --> 01:29:26,153 KONKLE: I kind of think of Judy Blume's work as the foundation 1609 01:29:26,236 --> 01:29:29,531 and we've built a couple steps on top of it. 1610 01:29:31,075 --> 01:29:34,870 But I don't think that this work would be being made without it. 1611 01:29:34,953 --> 01:29:40,626 My agent pointed out to me that anything older than about ten years, 1612 01:29:40,709 --> 01:29:43,545 to children, is historical fiction. 1613 01:29:44,755 --> 01:29:46,590 Because they weren't around for it. 1614 01:29:46,673 --> 01:29:48,509 So it's how things were. 1615 01:29:48,592 --> 01:29:52,888 And I do think that Judy Blume is historical fiction. 1616 01:29:52,971 --> 01:29:54,598 It's how things were. 1617 01:29:54,681 --> 01:29:56,892 Some of the details feel very dated. 1618 01:29:56,975 --> 01:29:59,436 I think, specifically, in terms of gender 1619 01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:04,733 and how incredibly, like, down-the-line binary the characters are. 1620 01:30:04,817 --> 01:30:06,235 Almost none of the moms work. 1621 01:30:06,318 --> 01:30:08,320 {\an8}Which, you know, Judy herself has talked about. 1622 01:30:08,403 --> 01:30:11,283 {\an8}You know, if these books were written now, um, that wouldn't be the case. 1623 01:30:11,365 --> 01:30:13,826 I don't think that Judy Blume wrote her books to be timeless. 1624 01:30:13,909 --> 01:30:16,662 I think she wrote her books to be timely. 1625 01:30:16,745 --> 01:30:18,997 And they were so timely that they became timeless. 1626 01:30:22,501 --> 01:30:24,837 GIRL: Every kid still deals with this. 1627 01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:28,298 Kids are still insecure about, like, a lot of things till this day. 1628 01:30:28,382 --> 01:30:30,801 I was kind of bullied, like, because of my height 1629 01:30:30,884 --> 01:30:32,570 'cause I was kind of shorter than everybody else. 1630 01:30:32,594 --> 01:30:37,015 Sometimes it's tough for you to let out what you're thinking and what's going on 1631 01:30:37,099 --> 01:30:40,978 'cause it's so embarrassing for you that you just can't say it out loud. 1632 01:30:41,061 --> 01:30:43,522 Am I normal? Is it my fault? 1633 01:30:43,605 --> 01:30:45,482 Why am I this? Why am I that? 1634 01:30:45,566 --> 01:30:50,529 This book, um, actually helped... actually can help me with my puberty. 1635 01:30:50,612 --> 01:30:53,115 There's only one little detail that's a little bit different. 1636 01:30:53,198 --> 01:30:56,869 (laughing): All the girls in Judy's books are like, 1637 01:30:56,952 --> 01:30:59,496 "I wouldn't be caught dead in an undershirt at school. 1638 01:30:59,580 --> 01:31:01,582 What am I, a baby?" 1639 01:31:01,665 --> 01:31:03,834 And that is the one detail that my kids are like, 1640 01:31:03,917 --> 01:31:06,044 "What is the thing about undershirts?" 1641 01:31:06,128 --> 01:31:09,882 Also having to call them up, like, dial the phone. (chuckles) 1642 01:31:09,965 --> 01:31:14,178 It's like, I've never dialed, like, the, like, ringing phone, like, the... 1643 01:31:14,261 --> 01:31:17,973 I don't know how to put it. Like, the... when you have to, like, turn it, like... 1644 01:31:18,807 --> 01:31:20,934 What is there about your books, Judy Blume, 1645 01:31:21,018 --> 01:31:24,730 do you think, at the core, that so attracts so many young readers? 1646 01:31:24,813 --> 01:31:27,816 I think it has to do with character identification. 1647 01:31:27,900 --> 01:31:29,735 {\an8}I mean, the kids will say to me, 1648 01:31:29,818 --> 01:31:32,446 {\an8}"You don't know me, but you wrote this book about me." 1649 01:31:32,529 --> 01:31:35,532 {\an8}And it has to do with feelings, because it's... 1650 01:31:35,616 --> 01:31:38,035 it's good to know, no matter how old you are, 1651 01:31:38,118 --> 01:31:40,329 that other people feel the same way. 1652 01:31:40,412 --> 01:31:44,458 Judy Blume, there are millions of kids who adore you, and I wish you good luck... 1653 01:31:44,541 --> 01:31:48,295 Looking back, it's emotional for me because... 1654 01:31:48,378 --> 01:31:50,714 I guess most emotional for me, 1655 01:31:50,797 --> 01:31:54,968 taking me back to that young woman I was 1656 01:31:55,052 --> 01:31:57,721 writing the books. 1657 01:32:08,273 --> 01:32:11,652 I don't know. How does it feel to be old? 1658 01:32:11,735 --> 01:32:14,112 I think maybe that's why I say it a lot. 1659 01:32:14,196 --> 01:32:17,241 To remind myself, "You are old." 1660 01:32:17,324 --> 01:32:21,245 (chuckling): Not a day goes by that I don't say to somebody, 1661 01:32:21,328 --> 01:32:25,165 "I'm 83. You know, I'm 83. I'm 83." 1662 01:32:25,249 --> 01:32:27,000 Like, why do I do that? 1663 01:32:28,418 --> 01:32:31,755 I think there's just an awareness. 1664 01:32:31,838 --> 01:32:34,341 You've reached, you know, on that line... 1665 01:32:34,424 --> 01:32:37,761 you've reached here, and... 1666 01:32:40,347 --> 01:32:43,600 ...who knows how much longer you have? 1667 01:32:45,727 --> 01:32:48,480 But I don't feel old. 1668 01:32:52,567 --> 01:32:57,698 I still sometimes get asked in letters, "Are you 12 years old? 1669 01:32:57,781 --> 01:32:59,283 Are you a kid?" 1670 01:32:59,366 --> 01:33:02,536 I'm like, "Mm, yeah, part of me is." 1671 01:33:03,537 --> 01:33:05,539 ♪ ♪ 1672 01:33:10,377 --> 01:33:12,379 ♪ ♪ 1673 01:33:14,881 --> 01:33:17,092 Yeah, I remember that. 1674 01:33:17,175 --> 01:33:20,512 I remember that haircut. That's the same haircut that I had. 1675 01:33:24,558 --> 01:33:26,393 That's good. That's good stuff. 1676 01:33:26,476 --> 01:33:28,478 Yeah, basically all the '80s. 1677 01:33:28,562 --> 01:33:31,440 Like, with the scrunchie and... 1678 01:33:31,523 --> 01:33:33,442 (sighs) Good stuff. 1679 01:33:33,525 --> 01:33:35,610 Also... (sighs) books. 1680 01:33:35,694 --> 01:33:38,989 (sniffs) I love, like, paperbacks. 1681 01:33:39,072 --> 01:33:40,741 REYNOLDS: So many Margaret covers. 1682 01:33:40,824 --> 01:33:43,285 This is the OG cover, right? 1683 01:33:43,368 --> 01:33:45,203 Yeah, this is the beginning. 1684 01:33:45,287 --> 01:33:47,164 {\an8}This is the famous blonde girl who... 1685 01:33:47,247 --> 01:33:48,665 {\an8}Who is she? 1686 01:33:48,749 --> 01:33:50,500 {\an8}We-we don't know who she is. 1687 01:33:50,584 --> 01:33:54,755 And I literally remember, like, matching each character to her image 1688 01:33:54,838 --> 01:33:59,384 and her personality and how cool I thought the girl's ponytail was. 1689 01:34:00,469 --> 01:34:05,640 That... like, the fact that somebody is a good enough author 1690 01:34:05,724 --> 01:34:10,812 that the publishing company will go to the effort to make a window. 1691 01:34:10,896 --> 01:34:14,566 This book changed young adult lit forever. 1692 01:34:14,649 --> 01:34:17,027 Forever. (laughs) 1693 01:34:19,279 --> 01:34:21,281 ♪ ♪ 1694 01:34:51,311 --> 01:34:53,313 ♪ ♪ 1695 01:35:23,343 --> 01:35:25,345 ♪ ♪ 1696 01:35:55,375 --> 01:35:57,377 ♪ ♪ 1697 01:36:27,407 --> 01:36:29,409 ♪ ♪ 1698 01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:01,441 ♪ ♪ 1699 01:37:19,251 --> 01:37:21,253 (music fades)