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Downloaded from
YTS.MX

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Official YIFY movies site:
YTS.MX

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[rock music plays]

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[chairman] As chairman, a--
a brief statement, if I may.

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More than 2300 years ago,

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Plato recognized
that music is a powerful force

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in our lives.

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That music forms character,

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and therefore plays
an important part

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in determining social
and political issues.

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In Plato's words,
"When modes of music change,

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the fundamental laws
of the state change with them."

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Our culture powerfully affects
individual character.

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When we're constantly confronted

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by that which is coarse,

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we become coarsened.

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Repeated exposure
to song lyrics describing rape,

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incest, sexual violence
and perversion

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is like sandpaper to the soul.

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It rubs raw one's sensibilities,

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resulting in a state
of emotional numbness.

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One becomes
literally demoralized.

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And it demands a response
from each of us.

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Not as self-appointed guardians
of the national morality,

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as some would suggest,

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but as concerned citizens
and leaders

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of a great and lasting republic

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that does not constitute
censorship.

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♪

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[gentle harp music]

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[Kat] Music is one of
the most essential pieces

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of human existence

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and an art form
that crosses all borders.

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It has the power
to lift your spirits,

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to evoke a sense of community,

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and to inspire creation
and free thought.

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In contrast,
music can also be divisive,

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derogatory,
or downright offensive.

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Over the last century,

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music has become
a multi-billion-dollar industry.

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And with big business comes

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corporate
and political intervention.

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With new platforms and avenues
for artists to reach listeners,

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the discussion of values
and art is ever-evolving

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and often a sign of the times.

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Music censorship is any act

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that implicitly or explicitly...

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suppresses music,

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um, that goes against the wishes
of its creator

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or its audience.

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Based on the history
of censorship

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and the way
in which it's been enacted,

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it seems that censorship is a--

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is making a political statement
that says,

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"This thing
that we want to censor

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and remove from the public,

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it fundamentally does not belong
in our culture

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or our society."

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Throughout the history
of not just popular music

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or recorded music,
or even sheet music,

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music has always been

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an incredibly effective way

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to connect to people.

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You can have an idea,

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you can express something
to someone, uh, through music

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that is heard
by millions of people,

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sometimes billions of people,

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and can mean
an awful lot to them,

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and is probably one of
the most ubiquitous,

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if not the most ubiquitous
form of art.

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Almost everyone listens to music
in some way, shape, or form.

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And the reason popular music
become such a target

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is because it is so popular
with young people.

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It's always seems like
it's about morality

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and Christianity
has sort of hijacked

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what constitutes morality.

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And so it's often backed

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by religious institutions,
religious groups.

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And I believe
with all of my heart

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that it is a contributing factor

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to our juvenile delinquency
of today.

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And why I believe that
is because I know how it feels

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when you sing it.

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I know what it does to you.

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And I-- I know,
uh, the evil feeling

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that you feel when you sing it.

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But retailers have power
to also censor

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based on what they offer
to sell.

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Um, people who are in charge
of radio programs

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cannot play certain records,

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so it's kind of
all over the place,

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but it depends on power.

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Who has the power
to make this decision

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and implement it?

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[blows raspberry]
What is censorship?

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It's a bummer
is what it is, really. [laughs]

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I think censorship, if you wanna
just look at in general terms,

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would be a limiting of...

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specific kinds of speech
or expression,

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really, of any kind.

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I don't know, what would it be?

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It'd be like a moral barrier

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that you're not allowed
to cross, really.

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This is who we are as Americans.
We're puritanical.

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We're fighting against ourselves
at all times.

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Um, and so
that's what-- that's--

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that's, I think,
the core of all of this.

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But that's part of art.

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The thing about censorship,

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and the thing
about music containing

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raunchy things is--
is not a new thing.

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It's not a 21st century thing.
It's not a 20th century thing.

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This goes back
to the beginning of music.

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Uh, if you look
at what Mozart did,

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of course, we know
all the great symphonies

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and the operas and--

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But if you look
into his full catalog,

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you'll see that he...

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he wrote a lot of songs
about farting and shit.

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He really did.

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And that-- that freaked out
an awful lot of people.

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If we fast forward,
you know, there's--

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there's all kinds of folk songs
that have all kinds of, uh,

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you know, innuendo
and double meanings in them.

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And then
if you get to the blues, uh,

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you really hear
some pretty raw stuff.

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And this became
part of the foundation

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for what rock and roll was.

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♪ I got nipples on my titties ♪

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♪ Big as the end of my thumb ♪

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♪ I got something
between my legs'll make ♪

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♪ A dead man come, oh... ♪

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♪ You make a dead man cum ♪

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♪ But I really get her goin' ♪

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♪ When I take out
my big ten inch record ♪

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♪ Of the band
that plays the blues ♪

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♪ Liquor just make her flinch ♪

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♪ Seems she don't go
for nothing ♪

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♪ 'Cept for my big
ten inch record... ♪

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Starting a documentary
about censorship

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at the, you know,
turn of the 20th century,

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it makes sense
because that is the moment

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when we actually have
a music industry.

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When music is actually
being made available

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to the masses.

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And I think that motivates the--

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the decisions to censor things,

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because there's a real concern

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about mass communication, um,

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and being able to have
influence over the masses

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through culture.

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Then you have
the 1927 Radio Act.

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And so that's the kind of
first time where it's like,

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"Oh, we can take
some more formal...

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politically influenced,
government influenced steps

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to say, 'Okay,

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no more obscene music
on the radio station, okay?

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Or you can get fined for this.'"

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Until the Radio Act there--

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there really wasn't a--
a government--

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official government way

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that they could regulate
the music.

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So, I-- The fact
that that was a beginning

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of acts and regulations,

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and it ended up with the FCC
by the 1930s,

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that-- that had stipulations

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about what would be bad
for the community.

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And for a lot of people,

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obscenity
was directly associated

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with Black dance music.

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Um, so it was a way of saying,

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"Okay, we need to figure out
a way to control this.

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'Cause it's un--
it's uncontrolled."

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So, I think that the kind of
emergence of censorship

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really comes in the 1910s

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and really kind of starts
to coalesce in the 1920s,

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They were at the peak

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of whatever media was
at the time.

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And Black music was only heard
on a AM radio station

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amongst Black people.

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Uh, it didn't permeate,
uh, mainstream easily.

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Uh, a lot of it
was already locked

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into being just a--
a local cultural thing,

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but it didn't spread
across the world

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through mainstream channels.

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It was the sound and the lyrics

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and the--
and who was singing it.

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If the-- if Black artists
were singing it,

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oh, that was much more taboo

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than if a white artist
did a cover of it.

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People are using their lyrics,
they're using their platform

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to bring attention
to something, you know?

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But that-- I think that
that is also a very, very old

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and longstanding job
of artists in general,

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is to use their art to--
to bring, you know,

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to-- to-- to say something
that they think is important.

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I mean, Billie Holiday singing

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"Strange Fruit"

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and then trying
to get that recorded

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became a tremendous issue.

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Because "Strange Fruit"
was about lynching,

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and-- and it was a--

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Like a taboo thing
to talk about,

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even though it was happening.

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♪ Blood on the leaves ♪

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♪ And blood at the root ♪

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♪ Black bodies swingin' ♪

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♪ In the Southern breeze ♪

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♪ Strange fruit hangin' ♪

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♪ From the poplar trees ♪

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[Kat] Billie Holiday's label,
Columbia Records,

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refused to record the song.

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Holiday went around her contract
to independent label, Commodore,

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who put out the record.

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"Strange Fruit"
was widely banned from radio

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when released in 1939,

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but remains
one of Billie Holiday's

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most notable works.

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I'd say most of the time
when you wanna ban something

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it's because, you know,

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it's-- it's hidden
close to truths

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that you don't wanna
acknowledge.

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Um, it just might show that--

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that the-- the idea

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of what people say
is the American dream

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is based on--
on false knowledge,

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you know, and it's not true
for everyone.

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So, I think,
for me, "Strange Fruit"

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and the banning of it,
and Billie Holiday's struggle

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and fight for that song show--

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show the-- the power of it and--

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and the responsibility
that artists can have

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if they accept it.

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So, lots of
censorship connected,

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I think, with racism.

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And so, with jazz,

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especially in the 1920s,

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you start having people fearful

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of what this music was gonna do
to society.

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I think about jazz

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as this kind of
real paradigm shift

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in terms of the music

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and broader
entertainment industry,

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because it was the first time

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that we had a clear music genre

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that was being sold
at an unprecedented rate.

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And by the mid-'20s, it's just--

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It's dominating the airwaves,
it's dominating records.

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And that's kind of unprecedented

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because you had
more of a variety of styles

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prior to that time.

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Jazz really takes over.

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And, you know,
it defines an age.

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Um, and so I think

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that really motivated
a lot of fear

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about this one thing

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having so much cultural power

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and influence over the masses.

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[Rhiannon]
It does shape the music.

260
00:12:21,366 --> 00:12:24,453
How things are suppressed
and what things are suppressed

261
00:12:24,494 --> 00:12:26,538
then shapes the next generation

262
00:12:26,580 --> 00:12:29,875
of content creators,
of-- of music makers.

263
00:12:29,916 --> 00:12:31,877
So-- That's just the way--

264
00:12:31,918 --> 00:12:33,295
that's just always the way
it is.

265
00:12:33,336 --> 00:12:35,297
And it can create new genres
that are amazing.

266
00:12:35,338 --> 00:12:37,382
It can create songs
that are classic.

267
00:12:37,424 --> 00:12:39,384
It can also create a lot of,

268
00:12:39,426 --> 00:12:42,429
um, it can disappear
a lot of people, you know?

269
00:12:42,471 --> 00:12:45,307
And shut down
a lot of avenues of music

270
00:12:45,348 --> 00:12:47,434
for certain
kind of groups, so...

271
00:12:48,435 --> 00:12:51,354
[Kat] While America began
to adopt and co-op jazz

272
00:12:51,396 --> 00:12:53,231
and the blues
into the mainstream,

273
00:12:53,273 --> 00:12:54,941
two major shifts
in popular culture

274
00:12:54,983 --> 00:12:56,234
were happening at the same time.

275
00:12:56,985 --> 00:12:59,112
Television and rock and roll.

276
00:13:00,113 --> 00:13:02,073
[Nuzum] Television and music
have always had

277
00:13:02,115 --> 00:13:04,534
an incredibly problematic
history together.

278
00:13:05,535 --> 00:13:07,329
Nail down the roof, gang,

279
00:13:07,370 --> 00:13:10,123
because here's a new act
that can blow it right off.

280
00:13:11,082 --> 00:13:12,959
Popular music in the 1950s,

281
00:13:13,001 --> 00:13:15,962
it really was the first time
that teens had a music,

282
00:13:16,004 --> 00:13:18,840
popular music that was separate
from adult popular music.

283
00:13:18,882 --> 00:13:20,425
Beforehand, that really--

284
00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:22,052
That distinction
really didn't exist.

285
00:13:22,093 --> 00:13:24,054
Music was popular
or not popular.

286
00:13:24,095 --> 00:13:27,933
And-- and a lot of
the battle lines in music

287
00:13:27,974 --> 00:13:29,976
formed during that time,

288
00:13:30,018 --> 00:13:31,811
during the early era
of television.

289
00:13:32,562 --> 00:13:34,272
[Wes] I think, uh, the youth

290
00:13:34,314 --> 00:13:36,399
always wanna do
something different.

291
00:13:36,441 --> 00:13:38,944
They always wanna rebel
against the status quo.

292
00:13:38,985 --> 00:13:41,363
They wanna do something
against the mainstream.

293
00:13:41,404 --> 00:13:43,031
They wanna do something
that's gonna shock

294
00:13:43,073 --> 00:13:44,866
and repulse their parents.

295
00:13:44,908 --> 00:13:46,326
And, uh, you know,

296
00:13:46,368 --> 00:13:48,036
and I think that's just
throughout history,

297
00:13:48,078 --> 00:13:49,412
that's been the way it is.

298
00:13:49,454 --> 00:13:50,872
I mean,
that's the whole point of it.

299
00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:53,124
You have to remember
in the 1950s,

300
00:13:53,166 --> 00:13:55,293
it was a very conservative time.

301
00:13:55,335 --> 00:13:57,629
The Eisenhower era,
uh, you know,

302
00:13:57,671 --> 00:13:59,881
it was, uh,
Leave It to Beaver time.

303
00:13:59,923 --> 00:14:02,259
So, people were used
to watching entertainers

304
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:04,344
like Bing Crosby or Perry Como.

305
00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:07,055
Along comes Elvis Presley,

306
00:14:07,097 --> 00:14:11,017
and this guy gyrated,
he shook his hips on television.

307
00:14:11,059 --> 00:14:13,979
Moms and dads were outraged
that their sons or daughters

308
00:14:14,020 --> 00:14:15,313
would see this.

309
00:14:15,355 --> 00:14:17,649
Television events
were literally events.

310
00:14:17,691 --> 00:14:21,278
The nights that Ed Sullivan
had Elvis Presley on,

311
00:14:21,319 --> 00:14:23,280
it had an 80 share.

312
00:14:23,321 --> 00:14:26,199
That means that 80%
of the televisions that were on

313
00:14:26,241 --> 00:14:27,409
were watching Ed Sullivan.

314
00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:29,869
80%.

315
00:14:29,911 --> 00:14:32,038
You know, the Super Bowl today

316
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,541
is lucky to get
a quarter of that.

317
00:14:35,542 --> 00:14:36,876
And now, ladies and gentlemen...

318
00:14:38,378 --> 00:14:40,672
yes, that's right,
Elvis Presley!

319
00:14:40,714 --> 00:14:42,382
[audience cheers]

320
00:14:42,424 --> 00:14:44,634
[Kat] In 1956,
Elvis signed the contract

321
00:14:44,676 --> 00:14:46,511
to appear
on The Ed Sullivan Show

322
00:14:46,553 --> 00:14:49,014
three times over the course
of only a few months.

323
00:14:50,181 --> 00:14:53,518
By his third appearance
in January of 1957,

324
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,062
the show filmed Elvis above
the waist only

325
00:14:56,104 --> 00:14:57,939
due to pressure
from conservative groups.

326
00:14:57,981 --> 00:15:00,025
♪ Well, you ain't never
caught a rabbit ♪

327
00:15:00,066 --> 00:15:01,484
♪ You ain't no...♪

328
00:15:01,526 --> 00:15:03,570
Well, censorship
has always been an-- an issue

329
00:15:03,612 --> 00:15:06,156
for artists who were trying
to push the boundaries of music,

330
00:15:06,197 --> 00:15:08,950
which was sort of the point
of rock and roll.

331
00:15:08,992 --> 00:15:11,661
And they were
a very mainstream...

332
00:15:12,746 --> 00:15:15,248
show at a-- at a-- at a time

333
00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:16,958
when rock was just starting

334
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,253
to break
into some new territory.

335
00:15:21,129 --> 00:15:22,922
Now, Elvis wasn't
the only entertainer

336
00:15:22,964 --> 00:15:26,092
that kinda got censored
on The Ed Sullivan Show.

337
00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,594
The Stones buckled under.

338
00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:29,220
They changed the words,

339
00:15:29,262 --> 00:15:31,473
"spend the night together"

340
00:15:31,514 --> 00:15:33,558
to "let's spend
some time together."

341
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,518
Sullivan asked them
to make that, and they did it.

342
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,604
And they-- they were on Sullivan
four or five times.

343
00:15:39,439 --> 00:15:42,275
♪ Let's spend some time
together ♪

344
00:15:42,776 --> 00:15:45,612
♪ Now I need you
more than ever ♪

345
00:15:45,654 --> 00:15:47,489
[Bill] Jim Morrison
and The Doors,

346
00:15:47,530 --> 00:15:50,033
uh, they didn't want
any drug influence,

347
00:15:50,075 --> 00:15:52,243
but Morrison just went ahead
and sang it

348
00:15:52,285 --> 00:15:53,370
the way he wrote it.

349
00:15:53,411 --> 00:15:54,454
♪ ...to you ♪

350
00:15:55,538 --> 00:15:57,666
♪ Girl, we couldn't get
much higher ♪

351
00:15:59,334 --> 00:16:01,002
[Kat] The Doors
were subsequently banned

352
00:16:01,044 --> 00:16:02,128
from The Ed Sullivan Show.

353
00:16:03,630 --> 00:16:06,091
Bob Dylan was instructed
by Sullivan producers

354
00:16:06,132 --> 00:16:09,177
to swap out another song
in place of his protest song,

355
00:16:09,219 --> 00:16:11,262
"Talkin' John Birch
Paranoid Blues."

356
00:16:11,721 --> 00:16:13,973
He refused the request
and walked out.

357
00:16:15,100 --> 00:16:17,352
[man] Did they censor you
from singing what you wanted to

358
00:16:17,394 --> 00:16:19,062
-on The Ed Sullivan Show?
-Yes.

359
00:16:19,646 --> 00:16:22,273
It-- it's more to it
than just censorship there.

360
00:16:22,315 --> 00:16:25,235
He said, "Can't you sing
some folk song

361
00:16:25,276 --> 00:16:28,196
like, uh,
like The Clancy Brothers do?"

362
00:16:30,323 --> 00:16:32,659
And-- and I didn't know
any of their songs,

363
00:16:32,701 --> 00:16:34,577
and so I couldn't be
on the program.

364
00:16:34,619 --> 00:16:36,162
That's what it came down to.

365
00:16:37,372 --> 00:16:38,748
[Kat] Following the walkout,

366
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:40,458
Dylan was banned from the show,

367
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:43,002
and CBS-owned
Columbia Records insisted

368
00:16:43,044 --> 00:16:44,462
that the track be removed

369
00:16:44,504 --> 00:16:46,172
from his upcoming
Freewheelin' album.

370
00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:49,092
The '60s progressed,

371
00:16:49,134 --> 00:16:50,677
and platforms
like The Ed Sullivan Show

372
00:16:50,719 --> 00:16:52,345
became less important

373
00:16:52,387 --> 00:16:55,306
as a flood
of new ideas and art crept

374
00:16:55,348 --> 00:16:56,683
into the American mainstream.

375
00:16:57,684 --> 00:16:59,436
Free thinking expanded,

376
00:16:59,477 --> 00:17:01,646
and major artists became open
to new ideas

377
00:17:01,688 --> 00:17:03,606
about sexuality,

378
00:17:03,648 --> 00:17:06,067
politics, and religion.

379
00:17:06,526 --> 00:17:08,069
And, you know,
the most important thing,

380
00:17:08,111 --> 00:17:09,654
all this brotherhood jazz

381
00:17:09,696 --> 00:17:11,489
we've been talking about
in church, all of a sudden...

382
00:17:11,531 --> 00:17:13,032
-[man] It's here.
-...you know, it's here.

383
00:17:13,074 --> 00:17:14,409
It's like now.

384
00:17:14,451 --> 00:17:16,828
-[man] Yeah. [indistinct].
-That's it.

385
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:18,663
[overlapping chatter]

386
00:17:18,705 --> 00:17:20,832
Uh, I grew up at a time

387
00:17:20,874 --> 00:17:23,835
where rock and roll
genuinely was a soundtrack

388
00:17:23,877 --> 00:17:25,462
of a social revolution.

389
00:17:26,254 --> 00:17:28,631
You know,
I think jazz cracked it.

390
00:17:29,382 --> 00:17:31,509
You know, blues and jazz, like,

391
00:17:31,551 --> 00:17:33,803
they went in
with the machetes first

392
00:17:33,845 --> 00:17:36,765
and started cracking the--
the impenetrable,

393
00:17:36,806 --> 00:17:39,350
you know,
forest of-- of convention.

394
00:17:39,392 --> 00:17:41,227
And then rock and roll people

395
00:17:41,269 --> 00:17:43,605
came fucking running through,

396
00:17:43,646 --> 00:17:46,399
and it changed the world
for real.

397
00:17:46,441 --> 00:17:49,194
All music is coming
out of a certain moment

398
00:17:49,235 --> 00:17:50,612
in cultural time.

399
00:17:50,653 --> 00:17:53,364
Um, and sometimes I think
it's more overt

400
00:17:53,406 --> 00:17:56,534
and sometimes it's hidden,
but I don't--

401
00:17:56,576 --> 00:17:58,787
I don't think there's ever music
that's created

402
00:17:58,828 --> 00:18:00,622
that doesn't have
some sort of message

403
00:18:00,663 --> 00:18:01,748
that we're getting from it.

404
00:18:02,415 --> 00:18:04,709
Even if it's, you know,

405
00:18:04,751 --> 00:18:07,170
could be by the book
or by the numbers,

406
00:18:07,212 --> 00:18:08,713
sort of super commercial music

407
00:18:08,755 --> 00:18:10,757
that's still telling us
something about, you know,

408
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:12,091
our-- our culture.

409
00:18:12,842 --> 00:18:15,178
When I look back

410
00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:19,098
and-- on how much more vividly
I experienced

411
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:21,643
all the cool stuff
about the '60s,

412
00:18:21,684 --> 00:18:24,437
the uprisings,
and all the new ways

413
00:18:24,479 --> 00:18:26,231
of thinking about things

414
00:18:26,272 --> 00:18:28,691
and how we could do
things better,

415
00:18:28,733 --> 00:18:31,402
I'm just so glad
I was that aware

416
00:18:31,444 --> 00:18:34,823
and connected it even then
with the music.

417
00:18:35,406 --> 00:18:37,867
And LSD enters a picture.

418
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:41,538
Music just exploded with ideas,

419
00:18:41,579 --> 00:18:43,164
art and fashion, just with--

420
00:18:43,206 --> 00:18:45,124
There was so much more there.

421
00:18:45,792 --> 00:18:47,710
And we've never looked back.

422
00:18:47,752 --> 00:18:50,255
And, of course, the envelopes
keep getting pushed

423
00:18:50,296 --> 00:18:51,756
and keep getting pushed.

424
00:18:51,798 --> 00:18:54,133
I remember
when Sgt. Pepper came out

425
00:18:54,175 --> 00:18:56,761
and the BBC banned--

426
00:18:56,803 --> 00:19:00,557
they wouldn't play "A Day
in the Life of Sgt. Pepper,"

427
00:19:00,598 --> 00:19:03,434
because in the song Paul says,

428
00:19:03,476 --> 00:19:04,936
"I got on the bus
and went upstairs

429
00:19:04,978 --> 00:19:07,272
and had a smoke
and fell into a dream."

430
00:19:07,313 --> 00:19:09,148
And the BBC said, "Ah,

431
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:12,151
that must be because
he's been smoking drugs."

432
00:19:12,193 --> 00:19:14,487
And now I look back,
you know, 50 years later

433
00:19:14,529 --> 00:19:15,905
you think, "Gosh, really?

434
00:19:15,947 --> 00:19:18,491
Did they--
Did the BBC really ban that?"

435
00:19:19,492 --> 00:19:22,161
It wasn't status quo

436
00:19:22,203 --> 00:19:23,580
and rock and roll
has to be that,

437
00:19:23,621 --> 00:19:26,416
or else it becomes
just pop music.

438
00:19:26,916 --> 00:19:29,502
But rock and roll in specific

439
00:19:29,544 --> 00:19:32,589
needs to be irreverent

440
00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:34,799
and as a result, dangerous,

441
00:19:34,841 --> 00:19:37,969
because it makes people
feel uncomfortable.

442
00:19:38,011 --> 00:19:40,221
But in order to have

443
00:19:40,263 --> 00:19:42,307
change and justice,

444
00:19:42,348 --> 00:19:43,766
we have to feel uncomfortable.

445
00:19:43,808 --> 00:19:45,727
We have to go
through that window.

446
00:19:45,768 --> 00:19:49,564
I think that-- I think of music
as central to protest.

447
00:19:50,231 --> 00:19:51,900
But I think protest
is central to life,

448
00:19:51,941 --> 00:19:53,484
and music is part of life,

449
00:19:53,526 --> 00:19:55,320
and it's all sort of
connected to one--

450
00:19:55,361 --> 00:19:56,654
It's all one thing.

451
00:19:57,864 --> 00:20:00,491
I think of music as something
that people gather around.

452
00:20:00,533 --> 00:20:02,452
That's the way
you can connect with it.

453
00:20:02,493 --> 00:20:05,204
So, music for me
is very much protest-oriented

454
00:20:05,246 --> 00:20:07,498
in-- in-- in the sense
that it gives you a sense

455
00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:08,833
of who else is in the room.

456
00:20:10,543 --> 00:20:12,670
There is a connection there
through the lyrics.

457
00:20:12,712 --> 00:20:14,881
It's the shared feelings,
shared ideas,

458
00:20:14,923 --> 00:20:16,841
things like that,
that draw you to it.

459
00:20:16,883 --> 00:20:19,302
Especially when you're younger,
like, that's a way to like,

460
00:20:19,344 --> 00:20:21,638
find your people and like,
identify, like, who you--

461
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:23,640
who you, like,
get along with or--

462
00:20:23,681 --> 00:20:25,308
or have
these shared interests with.

463
00:20:26,017 --> 00:20:28,728
You have to understand
that in the 1960s,

464
00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:30,313
we, of course,
didn't have the internet,

465
00:20:30,355 --> 00:20:31,564
we didn't have social media,

466
00:20:31,606 --> 00:20:33,858
we didn't have ways
for young people

467
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:35,860
to easily communicate
with each other

468
00:20:35,902 --> 00:20:37,236
across long distances.

469
00:20:37,737 --> 00:20:40,239
What we did have though
were songs

470
00:20:40,281 --> 00:20:42,825
where a message
could be disseminated

471
00:20:42,867 --> 00:20:46,245
to a very large number of people
very, very quickly.

472
00:20:47,038 --> 00:20:50,333
The Vietnam War
was extraordinarily unpopular.

473
00:20:50,375 --> 00:20:53,670
And a lot of the sentiment

474
00:20:53,711 --> 00:20:55,755
that young people felt

475
00:20:55,797 --> 00:20:59,384
was transmitted and reinforced

476
00:20:59,425 --> 00:21:02,595
by anti-war songs of the 1960s.

477
00:21:04,055 --> 00:21:06,015
[Joe] Remember,
it was peace and love.

478
00:21:06,849 --> 00:21:10,812
And peace and love while, uh,
seeming kind of vague,

479
00:21:10,853 --> 00:21:12,897
uh, is radical.

480
00:21:13,439 --> 00:21:15,817
At that particular time,

481
00:21:15,858 --> 00:21:18,569
music that was coming
outta the '60s and '70s,

482
00:21:18,611 --> 00:21:22,281
whether it be Nina Simone,
Archie Shepp,

483
00:21:22,323 --> 00:21:25,952
everybody had a song
where they had something to say.

484
00:21:26,828 --> 00:21:28,371
Uh, they always made sure

485
00:21:28,413 --> 00:21:30,540
that there was a message
in the music.

486
00:21:32,917 --> 00:21:36,004
♪ Don't tell me, I'll tell you ♪

487
00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:39,298
♪ Me and my people
just about due ♪

488
00:21:39,882 --> 00:21:42,510
♪ I've been there, so, I know ♪

489
00:21:42,969 --> 00:21:45,763
♪ They keep on saying,
"Go slow" ♪

490
00:21:46,639 --> 00:21:48,808
♪ That's what they say,
"Go slow" ♪

491
00:21:48,850 --> 00:21:50,685
♪ That's what they say,
"Go slow" ♪

492
00:21:50,727 --> 00:21:53,938
Public Enemy and rap music
and hip-hop came in the '80s.

493
00:21:53,980 --> 00:21:56,733
So, we had
a great blueprint to follow,

494
00:21:56,774 --> 00:22:00,403
and thus, uh,
helped me kinda create

495
00:22:00,445 --> 00:22:04,741
the turn of being a raptivist
using, uh, rap music

496
00:22:04,782 --> 00:22:08,411
to be the best activist
I could as a grown person.

497
00:22:09,996 --> 00:22:13,332
♪ I think it's time we stop,
children, what's that sound? ♪

498
00:22:13,374 --> 00:22:15,376
♪ Everybody, look,
what's going down ♪

499
00:22:15,418 --> 00:22:17,962
♪ Damn,
was it something I said? ♪

500
00:22:18,004 --> 00:22:20,506
♪ Pretend you don't see
so you turn your head ♪

501
00:22:20,548 --> 00:22:22,967
♪ Ray scared of his shadow,
does it matter? ♪

502
00:22:23,009 --> 00:22:24,635
♪ Thought of reperations
got 'em playin' ♪

503
00:22:24,677 --> 00:22:25,845
♪ With the population ♪

504
00:22:26,596 --> 00:22:28,473
The culture
was moving so rapidly,

505
00:22:28,514 --> 00:22:31,684
evolving so quickly, um,

506
00:22:31,726 --> 00:22:34,562
and music was one of the things
that was driving it.

507
00:22:34,604 --> 00:22:38,066
So, if you turn on the radio,
you had a good chance of hearing

508
00:22:38,107 --> 00:22:41,402
what was happening
to people just like you.

509
00:22:43,613 --> 00:22:46,699
These songs, and there are,
you know, hundreds of them...

510
00:22:47,784 --> 00:22:51,621
uh, explained what was going on,

511
00:22:51,662 --> 00:22:53,581
why it was bad,

512
00:22:53,623 --> 00:22:55,958
how it affected you,

513
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,835
and what you could do about it.

514
00:22:57,877 --> 00:23:00,588
Kick out the jams motherfucker!

515
00:23:07,095 --> 00:23:09,972
♪ War, huh, good God y'all ♪

516
00:23:10,556 --> 00:23:12,558
♪ What is it good for? ♪

517
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,976
♪ Absolutely nothing ♪

518
00:23:14,018 --> 00:23:16,646
I saw Woodstock
when I was probably

519
00:23:16,687 --> 00:23:18,606
ten or 11 years old, the movie.

520
00:23:18,981 --> 00:23:22,777
And it just--
I-- I-- It was so radical.

521
00:23:22,819 --> 00:23:24,654
I couldn't believe
people were doing that.

522
00:23:24,695 --> 00:23:26,697
And I thought--
And it was all music.

523
00:23:26,739 --> 00:23:28,866
You know, it had
a profound effect on me.

524
00:23:28,908 --> 00:23:30,785
Like, thinking
that's what I thought music was.

525
00:23:30,827 --> 00:23:33,996
And when Hendrix did
Star-Spangled Banner,

526
00:23:34,038 --> 00:23:36,541
that was--
I couldn't even imagine

527
00:23:36,582 --> 00:23:37,625
that someone would do that.

528
00:23:39,085 --> 00:23:41,087
And it was so powerful.

529
00:23:42,463 --> 00:23:43,631
Occasionally it broke through.

530
00:23:43,673 --> 00:23:45,716
I mean, I was really lucky

531
00:23:45,758 --> 00:23:47,051
on-- on--
on the [indistinct] here

532
00:23:47,093 --> 00:23:50,429
and "Fixin' to Die Rag"
being included

533
00:23:50,471 --> 00:23:52,598
in the Woodstock movie.

534
00:23:53,057 --> 00:23:55,059
And that was only possible

535
00:23:55,101 --> 00:23:58,563
because the people involved
in making the Woodstock movie

536
00:23:58,604 --> 00:24:02,441
had come from social political
backgrounds as filmmakers.

537
00:24:02,775 --> 00:24:05,069
♪ And it's one, two, three ♪

538
00:24:05,111 --> 00:24:06,863
♪ What're we fighting for? ♪

539
00:24:06,904 --> 00:24:09,448
♪ Don't ask me,
I don't give a damn ♪

540
00:24:09,490 --> 00:24:11,576
♪ Next stop is Vietnam ♪

541
00:24:11,617 --> 00:24:13,995
I think what's interesting
is that the-- that there was--

542
00:24:14,036 --> 00:24:16,956
there were institutions
that were saying

543
00:24:16,998 --> 00:24:19,834
a certain viewpoint
about Vietnam War is acceptable,

544
00:24:19,876 --> 00:24:22,128
and a certain viewpoint
about the war is not.

545
00:24:22,170 --> 00:24:25,006
There was a song
by Barry McGuire

546
00:24:25,047 --> 00:24:26,757
called "Eve of Destruction."

547
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:28,718
It was banned by radio stations

548
00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:30,761
because radio stations
really believe that, like,

549
00:24:30,803 --> 00:24:32,763
"If we play this in some way,

550
00:24:32,805 --> 00:24:35,808
it will like, you know,
get in the way of democracy."

551
00:24:35,850 --> 00:24:37,894
♪ I can't twist the truth ♪

552
00:24:37,935 --> 00:24:40,104
♪ It knows no regulation ♪

553
00:24:40,146 --> 00:24:44,192
♪ Handful of senators
don't pass legislation ♪

554
00:24:44,233 --> 00:24:48,279
♪ And marches alone
can't bring integration ♪

555
00:24:48,321 --> 00:24:52,283
♪ When human respect
is disintegratin' ♪

556
00:24:52,325 --> 00:24:56,204
♪ This whole crazy world
is just too frustratin' ♪

557
00:24:56,245 --> 00:24:58,039
♪ And you tell me... ♪

558
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,874
[Kat] As the '60s raged on,

559
00:24:59,916 --> 00:25:02,293
artists increasingly spoke out
for peace,

560
00:25:02,335 --> 00:25:04,003
change and new ideas

561
00:25:04,045 --> 00:25:06,672
despite pushback
from the older generations.

562
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,635
However, by the mid-'70s,
the war in Vietnam was over

563
00:25:10,676 --> 00:25:12,970
and the hippie culture
had lost its edge.

564
00:25:13,638 --> 00:25:15,556
But the groundwork laid
by those artists

565
00:25:15,598 --> 00:25:17,516
created a new wave of diverse

566
00:25:17,558 --> 00:25:19,977
and sometimes
controversial musicians.

567
00:25:20,019 --> 00:25:22,730
Are you standing on the verge
of gettin' it on tonight, y'all?

568
00:25:24,023 --> 00:25:25,900
Are you standing on the verge
of gettin' it on?

569
00:25:25,942 --> 00:25:27,610
♪ Gettin' it on ♪

570
00:25:27,652 --> 00:25:29,237
[Kat] Edgier genres like funk,

571
00:25:29,278 --> 00:25:31,781
glam and punk

572
00:25:31,822 --> 00:25:33,574
began climbing
the popular charts.

573
00:25:33,991 --> 00:25:35,576
Again, stirring up concerns

574
00:25:35,618 --> 00:25:36,661
of what ideas
were being portrayed

575
00:25:36,702 --> 00:25:38,037
by musicians

576
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:39,205
and the effect they have
on culture.

577
00:25:40,873 --> 00:25:43,084
People generally,
before punk rock came around,

578
00:25:43,125 --> 00:25:45,336
didn't even swear in music
for Christ's sake.

579
00:25:45,378 --> 00:25:47,672
There was some
political stuff, you know, and--

580
00:25:47,713 --> 00:25:50,258
But it was all in the folk music
and stuff like that.

581
00:25:50,299 --> 00:25:51,884
This was something
completely new.

582
00:25:51,926 --> 00:25:54,637
It was like, uh,
putting a voice to the angst

583
00:25:54,679 --> 00:25:56,764
and the anger of youth
and all of this stuff.

584
00:25:56,806 --> 00:25:59,767
So, the kids were out looking
for shocking stuff

585
00:25:59,809 --> 00:26:01,560
that they could horrify
their parents with

586
00:26:01,602 --> 00:26:03,062
and get kicked outta school
and everything.

587
00:26:03,104 --> 00:26:04,855
And, yeah,
we fit the bill pretty good

588
00:26:04,897 --> 00:26:06,565
when it... [laughs]

589
00:26:06,607 --> 00:26:08,234
[reporter] Ontario police
have seized two records,

590
00:26:08,276 --> 00:26:10,027
deeming them obscene.

591
00:26:10,069 --> 00:26:11,779
On the back cover,
the rodent has been shot.

592
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,864
The titles have
four letter words

593
00:26:13,906 --> 00:26:15,324
we can't show you.

594
00:26:15,366 --> 00:26:16,867
And the songs
are full of descriptions

595
00:26:16,909 --> 00:26:18,244
of bodily functions

596
00:26:18,286 --> 00:26:20,121
that many people
will find offensive.

597
00:26:21,289 --> 00:26:22,832
I think, uh,
just about everything

598
00:26:22,873 --> 00:26:24,208
that happens in our world

599
00:26:24,250 --> 00:26:25,876
and the way
that our entire society

600
00:26:25,918 --> 00:26:27,837
seems to feel that, uh,

601
00:26:27,878 --> 00:26:30,172
they-- It's like they have
a holier-than-thou attitude,

602
00:26:30,214 --> 00:26:31,924
and they have to parade
around the world

603
00:26:31,966 --> 00:26:34,260
showing everybody else
the error of their ways.

604
00:26:34,302 --> 00:26:36,345
I don't-- I try
not to take sides in my music.

605
00:26:36,387 --> 00:26:39,640
I just portray the stories
from a neutral point of view.

606
00:26:40,975 --> 00:26:43,227
[reporter] As for the charges,
Dayglo Abortions says

607
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:44,937
the police did them a favor.

608
00:26:44,979 --> 00:26:46,814
Record sales
are expected to climb.

609
00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:50,318
Sometimes
people I know who are DJs

610
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,361
wish I didn't, you know,

611
00:26:52,403 --> 00:26:54,155
sing or use the word "fuck"
so much

612
00:26:54,196 --> 00:26:55,656
in Minor Threat songs.

613
00:26:56,157 --> 00:26:57,908
But the irony

614
00:26:57,950 --> 00:26:59,952
is that at the time
when I was writing the songs,

615
00:26:59,994 --> 00:27:03,205
a lot of times
I deliberately seeded the songs

616
00:27:03,247 --> 00:27:05,875
with the word "fuck"
because it was a--

617
00:27:05,916 --> 00:27:08,002
it was a, um,

618
00:27:08,044 --> 00:27:09,920
it was a protest against radio.

619
00:27:09,962 --> 00:27:12,089
Like, I didn't wanna go
on the radio, fuck the radio.

620
00:27:12,131 --> 00:27:14,133
The radio belonged
to the commercial world.

621
00:27:14,175 --> 00:27:17,219
So, um, once I got
involved with punk, really,

622
00:27:17,261 --> 00:27:20,264
I turned the radio off,
and I was into that.

623
00:27:20,306 --> 00:27:23,184
It completely changed my life.

624
00:27:23,225 --> 00:27:26,729
Um, from there, I'm--
I'd-- I'd never seen,

625
00:27:26,771 --> 00:27:30,649
um, or even it ne--
Had never occurred to me

626
00:27:30,691 --> 00:27:32,985
that going to see a band

627
00:27:33,027 --> 00:27:34,987
could be a dangerous thing,

628
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:37,114
that you are in danger,

629
00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:38,991
not only from people
in the audience,

630
00:27:39,033 --> 00:27:41,744
but possibly
from the band themselves.

631
00:27:42,203 --> 00:27:43,871
And that really turned me on.

632
00:27:45,289 --> 00:27:47,124
I don't know, there's just
a feeling, there's a frequency,

633
00:27:47,166 --> 00:27:48,959
a-- a rhythm
that you connect with.

634
00:27:49,377 --> 00:27:51,087
Um, but there--
there is just something--

635
00:27:51,128 --> 00:27:53,839
there's something dangerous
about rock and roll

636
00:27:53,881 --> 00:27:56,008
that-- that draws
people into it.

637
00:27:56,050 --> 00:27:58,719
People are trying to express
their selves

638
00:27:58,761 --> 00:28:00,679
through that type of music
a lot more

639
00:28:00,721 --> 00:28:03,808
than the people who are trying
to make commercial pop

640
00:28:03,849 --> 00:28:06,185
or-- or--
or marketable type of music.

641
00:28:06,227 --> 00:28:07,436
They don't care,
they're doing it

642
00:28:07,478 --> 00:28:09,146
because they love it.

643
00:28:09,188 --> 00:28:10,898
They wanna make sure
that they hear the messages

644
00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:13,192
or hear the type of music
they wanna hear out there.

645
00:28:13,234 --> 00:28:15,986
And, uh, I do think
it's very important.

646
00:28:16,028 --> 00:28:16,987
It's very important.

647
00:28:18,114 --> 00:28:20,157
The Plasmatics, we're definitely
a political band.

648
00:28:20,199 --> 00:28:21,700
We were making a statement,

649
00:28:21,742 --> 00:28:23,953
and, uh,
Wendy always used to say

650
00:28:23,994 --> 00:28:25,788
that we're gonna draw a line
in the sand

651
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:27,998
and then we're gonna
step over that line.

652
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,792
And we always did.

653
00:28:29,834 --> 00:28:31,419
We always pushed the envelope
every chance we had.

654
00:28:31,460 --> 00:28:35,047
And it definitely freaked out
the mainstream America.

655
00:28:35,423 --> 00:28:37,007
They weren't used to
seeing somebody

656
00:28:37,049 --> 00:28:39,885
who was so at ease
with their sexuality

657
00:28:39,927 --> 00:28:41,804
and with their strength
and with their power.

658
00:28:41,846 --> 00:28:43,055
And she was doing things

659
00:28:43,097 --> 00:28:44,807
that the male performers
were doing,

660
00:28:44,849 --> 00:28:46,892
but she was getting arrested
and beat up for it.

661
00:28:46,934 --> 00:28:48,352
[man] You were, uh,
arrested in Cleveland

662
00:28:48,394 --> 00:28:50,020
and Milwaukee in 1981.

663
00:28:50,062 --> 00:28:52,189
Police said,
you simulated, says here, Wendy,

664
00:28:52,231 --> 00:28:54,358
you simulated a sex act
and made obscene motions

665
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,193
during your performance.

666
00:28:56,235 --> 00:28:58,237
These charges were,
uh, subsequently dropped.

667
00:28:58,279 --> 00:28:59,989
You didn't even go to trial.

668
00:29:00,030 --> 00:29:01,449
So, it took every penny
I made for two years

669
00:29:01,490 --> 00:29:03,242
to fight that.

670
00:29:03,284 --> 00:29:06,203
I mean, and the-- It was
a ridiculous trumped-up charge.

671
00:29:06,245 --> 00:29:08,914
It was-- I was brutally, um,

672
00:29:08,956 --> 00:29:10,541
beaten up behind the club.

673
00:29:10,583 --> 00:29:12,376
They, um, police told me

674
00:29:12,418 --> 00:29:15,087
they'd seen me on Fridays
the night before,

675
00:29:15,129 --> 00:29:17,047
and they thought
I was an incarnate of the devil.

676
00:29:17,423 --> 00:29:19,508
And they were waiting there
for me.

677
00:29:19,550 --> 00:29:21,927
And they attacked me
and beat me unconscious,

678
00:29:21,969 --> 00:29:23,804
beat other people.

679
00:29:23,846 --> 00:29:25,055
They didn't like me
because my band was made up

680
00:29:25,097 --> 00:29:27,016
of [bleep] and [bleep].

681
00:29:27,057 --> 00:29:28,476
-[man] They said that?
-[Wendy] That's what they said.

682
00:29:28,517 --> 00:29:30,394
And that's what they were--

683
00:29:30,436 --> 00:29:31,896
that's what I was being hit
with a nightstick for.

684
00:29:31,937 --> 00:29:33,856
And it took every penny I made.

685
00:29:35,232 --> 00:29:38,027
In 1984, I was arrested
in Amarillo, Texas

686
00:29:38,068 --> 00:29:41,447
for disorderly conduct
and abusive language.

687
00:29:41,489 --> 00:29:43,073
Uh, it was a misdemeanor.

688
00:29:43,532 --> 00:29:46,911
But still, to actually have
a charge and a court case

689
00:29:46,952 --> 00:29:48,370
in 1980s

690
00:29:48,412 --> 00:29:51,332
for cursing on stage,

691
00:29:51,373 --> 00:29:54,376
uh, seemed insane.

692
00:29:55,961 --> 00:29:58,005
[man] T-minus ten,
nine, eight...

693
00:29:58,047 --> 00:29:59,840
[Kat] Summer 1981 brought change

694
00:29:59,882 --> 00:30:01,550
that reinvented
the music industry.

695
00:30:02,593 --> 00:30:05,346
MTV rocketed
to the peak of popular culture.

696
00:30:06,347 --> 00:30:08,891
Music became
a much more visual medium,

697
00:30:08,933 --> 00:30:12,436
and suddenly the focus
of artists, labels and censors

698
00:30:12,478 --> 00:30:15,481
shifted to videos
and the image of an artist.

699
00:30:16,148 --> 00:30:17,441
[man] Ladies and gentlemen,
rock and roll.

700
00:30:21,111 --> 00:30:24,198
I remember MTV coming up.

701
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,158
I was a suburban kid
at that time...

702
00:30:27,159 --> 00:30:28,953
and we couldn't believe

703
00:30:28,994 --> 00:30:30,829
that something like this
existed.

704
00:30:30,871 --> 00:30:32,414
It's-- it is the equivalent

705
00:30:32,456 --> 00:30:34,833
of going from black and white
to color as a music fan.

706
00:30:35,292 --> 00:30:36,877
This is it.

707
00:30:36,919 --> 00:30:39,463
Welcome to MTV,
Music Television,

708
00:30:39,505 --> 00:30:43,842
the world's first 24-hour
stereo video music channel.

709
00:30:45,052 --> 00:30:46,554
And a common thing

710
00:30:46,595 --> 00:30:48,472
for all different types
of censorship

711
00:30:48,514 --> 00:30:51,183
is things don't get censored...

712
00:30:52,226 --> 00:30:54,520
because they happen to exist
in the world

713
00:30:54,562 --> 00:30:56,897
and have a lot of drugs in them,
or sex or violence.

714
00:30:57,356 --> 00:31:00,234
It's the things
that are most popular with kids.

715
00:31:00,609 --> 00:31:02,319
So, in some ways,

716
00:31:02,361 --> 00:31:04,488
the videos become
the tipping point.

717
00:31:05,030 --> 00:31:07,324
It comes
with your basic cable package.

718
00:31:08,033 --> 00:31:11,620
Um, there weren't mechanisms
for kind of weeding that out

719
00:31:11,662 --> 00:31:13,330
or parental controls
at that time,

720
00:31:13,372 --> 00:31:14,957
and it's in your house.

721
00:31:14,999 --> 00:31:16,542
And if you have a TV
in your kids' bedroom,

722
00:31:16,584 --> 00:31:17,876
which I did...

723
00:31:19,253 --> 00:31:20,421
how do you control that?

724
00:31:20,462 --> 00:31:22,172
How do you-- you know,

725
00:31:22,214 --> 00:31:24,300
this is your domestic
quote on quote "safe space."

726
00:31:25,009 --> 00:31:26,343
And it's there

727
00:31:26,385 --> 00:31:28,137
and there's nothing
you can do about it

728
00:31:28,178 --> 00:31:30,180
except maybe, you know,

729
00:31:30,222 --> 00:31:32,349
scare the shit outta your kids,
which is what my mom did.

730
00:31:32,391 --> 00:31:34,143
So, I didn't watch it. [laughs]

731
00:31:35,352 --> 00:31:38,314
Well, MTV was a big game changer
in television.

732
00:31:38,355 --> 00:31:41,483
In the mid '80s it came along
and woke everybody up.

733
00:31:42,401 --> 00:31:45,446
Prince, Boy George,

734
00:31:45,487 --> 00:31:47,031
uh, Cyndi Lauper.

735
00:31:47,072 --> 00:31:49,366
They became very graphic.

736
00:31:49,408 --> 00:31:52,161
And suddenly you had
a new generation of artists

737
00:31:52,202 --> 00:31:53,245
who were visual.

738
00:31:55,122 --> 00:31:58,042
And you saw
a lot more sex and flesh

739
00:31:58,083 --> 00:32:00,294
and spandex on television.

740
00:32:02,129 --> 00:32:06,258
MTV were like jet packs...

741
00:32:07,384 --> 00:32:08,927
strapped to your career.

742
00:32:10,012 --> 00:32:12,640
A video is a great enhancement,

743
00:32:12,681 --> 00:32:15,559
but you have to have
a good song to start with.

744
00:32:15,601 --> 00:32:17,436
So, "We're Not Gonna Take It..."

745
00:32:18,562 --> 00:32:20,522
uh, certainly stood on its own,

746
00:32:20,564 --> 00:32:23,192
but damn, it did not hurt
to have those rocket boosters

747
00:32:23,233 --> 00:32:25,152
strapped to our career.

748
00:32:26,779 --> 00:32:28,530
[Kat] "We're Not Gonna
Take It" became

749
00:32:28,572 --> 00:32:30,616
one of the most popular videos
of the 1980s.

750
00:32:31,450 --> 00:32:34,078
It was the group's
crossover top 40 hit

751
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:36,622
and Twisted Sister's
only certified gold single.

752
00:32:38,749 --> 00:32:40,626
As MTV became
the most popular way

753
00:32:40,668 --> 00:32:42,252
for teens to consume music,

754
00:32:42,294 --> 00:32:43,754
the channel also became

755
00:32:43,796 --> 00:32:45,047
one of the industry's
lead censors.

756
00:32:46,131 --> 00:32:49,218
And with videos driving
record sales through the roof,

757
00:32:49,259 --> 00:32:52,471
having a video ban
could be costly for both labels

758
00:32:52,513 --> 00:32:53,681
and their artists.

759
00:32:54,807 --> 00:32:57,434
Queen's 1982 video
for "Body Language"

760
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:00,604
was officially the first video
banned from MTV,

761
00:33:00,646 --> 00:33:02,189
but it wouldn't be the last.

762
00:33:06,026 --> 00:33:07,152
♪ Don't talk ♪

763
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,744
One of the highest-selling
artists in the '80s and '90s

764
00:33:15,786 --> 00:33:17,329
was Madonna,

765
00:33:17,371 --> 00:33:20,416
who consistently
leaned into controversy

766
00:33:20,457 --> 00:33:22,543
and used the focus
of conservative censors

767
00:33:22,584 --> 00:33:24,211
to her advantage.

768
00:33:24,253 --> 00:33:25,629
♪ For you to justify my love ♪

769
00:33:25,671 --> 00:33:27,381
[Nuzum] I remember
I recently saw the video

770
00:33:27,423 --> 00:33:29,007
for "Justify My Love,"

771
00:33:29,049 --> 00:33:31,343
and I couldn't believe
that that was a problem.

772
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,514
And at the time,
it was like an event.

773
00:33:35,556 --> 00:33:38,809
And it was like,
I think, uh, MTV showed it,

774
00:33:38,851 --> 00:33:40,811
and they showed it
like one time, right?

775
00:33:40,853 --> 00:33:42,479
And it became this huge thing.

776
00:33:42,521 --> 00:33:45,107
With women,
I suppose, it became,

777
00:33:45,149 --> 00:33:46,567
uh, a more crowded space.

778
00:33:46,608 --> 00:33:48,694
And the more, um,
the more explicit,

779
00:33:48,736 --> 00:33:50,446
um, the less dressed,

780
00:33:50,487 --> 00:33:53,741
the more sexually available
the woman was presented,

781
00:33:53,782 --> 00:33:57,035
uh, the popularity seemed to--
seemed to grow.

782
00:33:57,494 --> 00:34:00,706
Madonna knew
that to get attention,

783
00:34:00,748 --> 00:34:02,833
she'd have to stir
the pot a little.

784
00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:04,585
She'd have to do things
that were outrageous.

785
00:34:04,626 --> 00:34:05,669
She attacked
the Catholic church.

786
00:34:05,711 --> 00:34:07,337
She was more sexual

787
00:34:07,379 --> 00:34:08,672
than most people were in videos
at the time.

788
00:34:08,714 --> 00:34:10,591
MTV was only
a couple of years old.

789
00:34:10,632 --> 00:34:12,301
Uh, we were still

790
00:34:12,342 --> 00:34:15,179
in Reagan's
very puritanical America.

791
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:16,680
So, she knew that
if she was a little outrageous,

792
00:34:16,722 --> 00:34:17,806
it would go a long way.

793
00:34:17,848 --> 00:34:19,308
That's what happened.

794
00:34:19,349 --> 00:34:21,101
You know,
sexuality is something that's...

795
00:34:21,894 --> 00:34:23,645
you know, constantly,

796
00:34:23,687 --> 00:34:26,231
you know, a problem for people.

797
00:34:26,273 --> 00:34:28,692
But you know, sex and religion

798
00:34:28,734 --> 00:34:30,486
and, uh, authority

799
00:34:30,527 --> 00:34:34,198
and all kinds of things
that she pushes against

800
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,617
were just a natural expression.

801
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:40,454
[Kat] The religious imagery

802
00:34:40,496 --> 00:34:42,372
in Madonna's
"Like a Prayer" video,

803
00:34:42,414 --> 00:34:43,749
sparked outrage and protests
as far as the Vatican.

804
00:34:44,416 --> 00:34:46,210
Pushback even resulted

805
00:34:46,251 --> 00:34:48,545
in the loss of a $5 million
ad campaign with Pepsi.

806
00:34:49,713 --> 00:34:52,674
It's like religion
is the third real issue.

807
00:34:52,716 --> 00:34:54,426
♪ We have confidence ♪

808
00:34:54,468 --> 00:34:57,346
When Sinead O'Connor
was on Saturday Night Live,

809
00:34:57,387 --> 00:34:59,640
of course, she grew up in--
in-- in Ireland,

810
00:34:59,681 --> 00:35:01,850
which has
a very complicated history

811
00:35:01,892 --> 00:35:03,393
with the Catholic Church.

812
00:35:03,435 --> 00:35:05,103
During that performance,
she held up a--

813
00:35:05,145 --> 00:35:06,480
a photo of the Pope

814
00:35:06,522 --> 00:35:08,732
and started to shred it.

815
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:11,443
Fight the real enemy.

816
00:35:12,861 --> 00:35:14,613
[Nuzum] That literally destroyed
her career.

817
00:35:14,655 --> 00:35:15,739
She became toxic.

818
00:35:16,907 --> 00:35:19,409
If you look at any archive
of Saturday Night Live,

819
00:35:19,451 --> 00:35:22,246
um, that episode
is been destroyed

820
00:35:22,287 --> 00:35:23,330
from the face of the Earth.

821
00:35:23,372 --> 00:35:24,915
It's not in a box set,

822
00:35:24,957 --> 00:35:27,626
it's not available for purchase,
it's not in the download.

823
00:35:27,668 --> 00:35:30,504
You can't question religion

824
00:35:30,546 --> 00:35:32,548
or question religion's,

825
00:35:32,589 --> 00:35:35,217
uh, totality,

826
00:35:35,259 --> 00:35:37,135
um, a little bit.

827
00:35:37,636 --> 00:35:39,346
[Kat] While questioning religion
and tradition

828
00:35:39,388 --> 00:35:41,181
seemed new in pop music,

829
00:35:41,223 --> 00:35:42,808
it had been happening
more and more overtly

830
00:35:42,850 --> 00:35:45,602
in the heavy metal
and hard rock genres,

831
00:35:45,644 --> 00:35:48,564
culminating in what was deemed
the Satanic panic.

832
00:35:49,898 --> 00:35:52,651
Today's heavy metal music
is categorically different

833
00:35:52,693 --> 00:35:54,570
from previous forms
of popular music.

834
00:35:54,611 --> 00:35:57,281
The extreme violence,
extreme rebellion,

835
00:35:57,322 --> 00:35:58,574
substance abuse,

836
00:35:58,615 --> 00:36:00,158
sexual promiscuity
and perversion

837
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,702
and Satanism.

838
00:36:01,743 --> 00:36:05,664
I know personally of no form
of popular music before,

839
00:36:05,706 --> 00:36:07,416
which is had
as one of its central elements

840
00:36:07,457 --> 00:36:08,709
the element of hatred.

841
00:36:12,838 --> 00:36:15,966
Satan, Satan, Satan,
he is God, he is God.

842
00:36:16,008 --> 00:36:17,509
And then the laughter.

843
00:36:17,926 --> 00:36:19,386
I'm not saying
that if you listen

844
00:36:19,428 --> 00:36:20,762
to heavy metal music,

845
00:36:20,804 --> 00:36:22,556
the devil will make you
kill your mom.

846
00:36:22,931 --> 00:36:26,184
His primary goal is to take you
to hell with him.

847
00:36:26,226 --> 00:36:28,645
If Satan can get you
to kill for him, great.

848
00:36:28,687 --> 00:36:30,564
That's icing on the cake.

849
00:36:30,606 --> 00:36:32,649
I was a hippie and I was living
in a utility closet,

850
00:36:32,691 --> 00:36:34,568
if you can believe it.

851
00:36:34,610 --> 00:36:35,944
And all I really had was a ch--
couple changes of clothes,

852
00:36:35,986 --> 00:36:37,654
a bedroll
and a bunch of records.

853
00:36:37,696 --> 00:36:39,615
And I tell people,
my first pastors

854
00:36:39,656 --> 00:36:41,575
were Jim Morrison
and Jimi Hendrix.

855
00:36:41,617 --> 00:36:43,410
I just knew
without anybody telling me

856
00:36:43,452 --> 00:36:44,828
that what I was listening to

857
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:46,496
really had taken me
in a very bad direction.

858
00:36:46,538 --> 00:36:49,499
And-- and the sexual immorality,
the occultism,

859
00:36:49,541 --> 00:36:51,835
the rebellion, the nihilism,
all that kinda stuff,

860
00:36:51,877 --> 00:36:53,378
just I looked at it and thought,

861
00:36:53,420 --> 00:36:55,297
"How in the world
can I have ever imbibed

862
00:36:55,339 --> 00:36:56,548
this type of stuff?

863
00:36:56,590 --> 00:36:58,508
But I heard
a still small voice say,

864
00:36:58,550 --> 00:37:00,218
"Well, you know, you know
a lot about the culture,

865
00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:01,595
why don't you--
And you've been impacted by it.

866
00:37:01,637 --> 00:37:03,305
Why don't you put
something together?"

867
00:37:03,347 --> 00:37:05,849
So, I did, and it gradually grew
and grew and grew.

868
00:37:05,891 --> 00:37:07,392
And-- and I can't tell you
the number of--

869
00:37:07,434 --> 00:37:09,436
number of people
that have walked up to me

870
00:37:09,478 --> 00:37:11,271
at a conference
and said, "Your--

871
00:37:11,313 --> 00:37:14,524
My parents made me listen
to your stuff when I was a kid,

872
00:37:14,566 --> 00:37:16,276
and I just hated your guts."

873
00:37:16,318 --> 00:37:18,695
Shrill sounds
at sufficient volume

874
00:37:18,737 --> 00:37:20,948
can congeal proteins
in the liquid media.

875
00:37:20,989 --> 00:37:23,617
So, a soft egg
placed in front of a speaker,

876
00:37:23,659 --> 00:37:26,578
at some of
the louder rock concerts,

877
00:37:26,620 --> 00:37:28,705
can midway through the concert

878
00:37:28,747 --> 00:37:30,916
become a hard-boiled snack

879
00:37:30,958 --> 00:37:32,626
for the weary headbanger.

880
00:37:32,668 --> 00:37:34,002
Does anybody have any salt here?

881
00:37:35,629 --> 00:37:36,922
[Kat] Videos
like the ones produced

882
00:37:36,964 --> 00:37:38,799
by Reel to Real Ministries

883
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,634
were distributed to churches
and religious groups

884
00:37:40,676 --> 00:37:42,469
around the country,

885
00:37:42,511 --> 00:37:44,346
and were viewed by many parents
as legitimate warnings

886
00:37:44,388 --> 00:37:46,264
of the dangers
of certain popular music.

887
00:37:46,306 --> 00:37:49,643
[narrator] Are you ready
for truth about rock?

888
00:37:49,685 --> 00:37:52,396
[thunder rumbles]

889
00:37:52,437 --> 00:37:55,399
1984 was the height

890
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,733
of the Reagan era.

891
00:37:57,401 --> 00:37:59,778
And Reagan,

892
00:37:59,820 --> 00:38:01,446
uh, in the United States,
he brought in

893
00:38:01,488 --> 00:38:04,741
a conservative sort of movement

894
00:38:04,783 --> 00:38:05,826
and mentality.

895
00:38:06,576 --> 00:38:08,412
It is the American sound.

896
00:38:08,912 --> 00:38:12,749
It is hopeful,
big hearted, idealistic,

897
00:38:12,791 --> 00:38:15,669
daring, decent and fair.

898
00:38:16,753 --> 00:38:19,673
That's our heritage,
that's our song.

899
00:38:20,465 --> 00:38:22,384
And I've always found,
if you look throughout history,

900
00:38:22,426 --> 00:38:25,637
whenever there's been
a very strong conservative,

901
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:28,765
um, presence, uh, in the world,

902
00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:30,767
you will see a reaction to that

903
00:38:30,809 --> 00:38:33,812
in a very non-conservative way.

904
00:38:34,646 --> 00:38:37,399
At the time,
let's also remember that 1985

905
00:38:37,441 --> 00:38:40,318
is the beginning bubbling boil

906
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,779
of the Satanic panic movement,

907
00:38:42,821 --> 00:38:45,574
of concerns that there was
satanic messaging

908
00:38:45,615 --> 00:38:47,325
hidden inside of music,

909
00:38:47,367 --> 00:38:49,661
concerns that there are artists,
or actually occultists

910
00:38:49,703 --> 00:38:51,413
trying to recruit children

911
00:38:51,455 --> 00:38:53,999
into being occultists as well.

912
00:38:54,041 --> 00:38:56,835
And that was considered
a like real thing.

913
00:38:57,461 --> 00:39:00,422
Art is a very evocative medium

914
00:39:00,464 --> 00:39:01,673
of communication.

915
00:39:01,715 --> 00:39:03,050
Lots of rock and roll artists,

916
00:39:03,091 --> 00:39:04,801
lots of musicians
have acknowledged this,

917
00:39:04,843 --> 00:39:06,553
that it just goes in
and changes you.

918
00:39:07,012 --> 00:39:10,140
So, there are some artists,
no question about it,

919
00:39:10,182 --> 00:39:12,934
that epistemologically,
self-consciously satanic,

920
00:39:12,976 --> 00:39:16,521
they have embraced
a satanic philosophy worldview.

921
00:39:18,940 --> 00:39:21,610
[Sakis] They want, uh,
wanna destroy everything, yeah.

922
00:39:21,651 --> 00:39:23,737
We were 16 years old,
17 years old.

923
00:39:24,738 --> 00:39:28,784
We listened the bands
that, um, praise Satan.

924
00:39:29,868 --> 00:39:32,370
[laughs] Venom, Bathory,

925
00:39:32,412 --> 00:39:34,456
[indistinct], Hellhammer.

926
00:39:35,082 --> 00:39:37,042
You know, we grow up
with all those bands.

927
00:39:37,584 --> 00:39:40,504
To be a metalhead
was a really big thing.

928
00:39:40,545 --> 00:39:42,672
We were arrested many times
for the police.

929
00:39:42,714 --> 00:39:44,841
We were stopped [indistinct]
to have problems everywhere.

930
00:39:44,883 --> 00:39:46,802
We tried to be in the USA
many times,

931
00:39:46,843 --> 00:39:48,970
we didn't--
We couldn't, uh, go there.

932
00:39:49,012 --> 00:39:50,097
Okay, you can--
You want to believe,

933
00:39:50,138 --> 00:39:51,640
you can believe.

934
00:39:51,681 --> 00:39:54,518
But let me say
that this is bullshit.

935
00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:55,852
Okay?
I have the right to say that.

936
00:39:56,770 --> 00:39:59,940
The thing about rock and hip-hop

937
00:39:59,981 --> 00:40:02,859
is that it's controversial
by nature.

938
00:40:03,235 --> 00:40:05,612
Hip hop artists
or rock artists

939
00:40:05,654 --> 00:40:07,405
tend to be pushing
the boundaries

940
00:40:07,447 --> 00:40:09,574
in terms
of content and sound,

941
00:40:09,616 --> 00:40:11,451
attitude, what they wear.

942
00:40:11,493 --> 00:40:14,579
All these things are--
are dangerous to some people.

943
00:40:14,621 --> 00:40:16,206
We're talking
about illegal acts.

944
00:40:16,248 --> 00:40:17,958
Do you have any evidence--
evidence that any teenager

945
00:40:17,999 --> 00:40:19,709
has ever listened
to these albums

946
00:40:19,751 --> 00:40:21,503
and gone out and practiced
sex with an animal

947
00:40:21,545 --> 00:40:22,879
or sex with a dead person?

948
00:40:22,921 --> 00:40:24,548
Do you have any evidence
that they haven't?

949
00:40:24,589 --> 00:40:26,550
Why is the evidence necessary?

950
00:40:26,591 --> 00:40:30,720
I think the evidence is that
we have statistics today

951
00:40:30,762 --> 00:40:34,516
that show that our teenagers
in America are in trouble.

952
00:40:35,142 --> 00:40:37,018
[Kat]
Parents and censors feared

953
00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:39,688
that the growing popularity
of darker theme music

954
00:40:39,729 --> 00:40:41,606
was beginning
to negatively influence

955
00:40:41,648 --> 00:40:43,150
a generation of teenagers.

956
00:40:44,568 --> 00:40:48,029
Some of the biggest names
in heavy metal like Metallica,

957
00:40:48,071 --> 00:40:50,157
Ozzy Osborne, and Slayer

958
00:40:50,198 --> 00:40:52,117
were blamed
for murders or suicides

959
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:53,535
committed by their fans.

960
00:40:54,786 --> 00:40:57,122
[reporter] Heavy metal mania,
it's sweeping the world.

961
00:40:57,789 --> 00:40:59,916
Music has never been
more violent,

962
00:40:59,958 --> 00:41:02,043
and critics say
kids are killing themselves

963
00:41:02,085 --> 00:41:03,753
and each other because of...

964
00:41:03,795 --> 00:41:05,255
[Lars] Come on.
Let's be realistic. All right?

965
00:41:05,297 --> 00:41:07,215
You have a kid who listens
to, like, some music

966
00:41:07,257 --> 00:41:08,925
by some band
who writes some lyrics.

967
00:41:08,967 --> 00:41:11,011
I mean, if,
at the end of the day,

968
00:41:11,052 --> 00:41:12,888
they unfortunately
would end up, you know,

969
00:41:12,929 --> 00:41:14,764
either killing themselves
or whatever,

970
00:41:14,806 --> 00:41:16,516
then you would ex--

971
00:41:16,558 --> 00:41:19,227
suspect that the--
that the sort of--

972
00:41:19,269 --> 00:41:20,770
the source
of the problem is something

973
00:41:20,812 --> 00:41:22,731
that should hopefully be
a lot larger than,

974
00:41:22,772 --> 00:41:24,566
you know,
some rock band, you know,

975
00:41:24,608 --> 00:41:27,152
playing some, you know,
open chords on a guitar.

976
00:41:27,194 --> 00:41:29,487
[reporter] John McCollum
shot himself in the head

977
00:41:29,529 --> 00:41:32,657
the night
of October 26th, 1984,

978
00:41:32,699 --> 00:41:35,160
while listening
to the music of Ozzy Osborne.

979
00:41:35,827 --> 00:41:37,579
The police photo
shows the headphones

980
00:41:37,621 --> 00:41:39,206
were still on
when he died.

981
00:41:39,247 --> 00:41:41,082
[Ozzy] The boy must
have been pretty messed up

982
00:41:41,124 --> 00:41:42,792
before he ever heard
an Ozzy record.

983
00:41:43,251 --> 00:41:45,253
I mean-- I mean,
I can't help that, you know.

984
00:41:45,837 --> 00:41:47,214
I feel very sad
for the boy,

985
00:41:47,255 --> 00:41:49,299
and I felt terribly sad
for the parents

986
00:41:49,341 --> 00:41:51,301
because as a parent myself,
I would be--

987
00:41:51,343 --> 00:41:53,887
I'd be pretty devastated
if something like that happened.

988
00:41:53,929 --> 00:41:56,223
But no if-- and I--
and I had thought about this,

989
00:41:56,264 --> 00:41:58,016
if it was-- if the boot
was on the other foot,

990
00:41:58,058 --> 00:42:00,185
I-- I couldn't blame
the artist.

991
00:42:01,645 --> 00:42:03,647
Uh, but then
you look at the numbers.

992
00:42:03,688 --> 00:42:07,275
So, Ozzy Osborne is heard by
how many tens of million by now?

993
00:42:07,317 --> 00:42:09,277
Hundred million,
200 million people.

994
00:42:09,903 --> 00:42:11,738
They didn't all go
hurt anybody or themselves.

995
00:42:13,031 --> 00:42:15,617
And even the one person
who allegedly committed suicide

996
00:42:15,659 --> 00:42:16,993
because of the song
"Suicide Solution,"

997
00:42:17,035 --> 00:42:19,704
we at Spin
proved that was wrong

998
00:42:19,746 --> 00:42:21,957
because we found out that
he actually killed himself

999
00:42:21,998 --> 00:42:23,541
before the song was released.

1000
00:42:23,583 --> 00:42:25,043
So, he couldn't
have heard the song.

1001
00:42:26,086 --> 00:42:29,005
When something bad happens,

1002
00:42:29,047 --> 00:42:32,842
people want to be
able to blame somebody.

1003
00:42:32,884 --> 00:42:35,011
They want to be able
to point to something and say,

1004
00:42:35,053 --> 00:42:38,556
this is why this bad,
horrible, random thing happened.

1005
00:42:38,598 --> 00:42:40,183
[officer talking
on police radio]

1006
00:42:40,225 --> 00:42:41,851
[Kat] No case grabbed
the public's attention

1007
00:42:41,893 --> 00:42:43,645
more than the infamous
Judas Priest's

1008
00:42:43,687 --> 00:42:45,188
subliminal message trial,

1009
00:42:45,230 --> 00:42:47,190
which claimed hidden messages
were in the song

1010
00:42:47,232 --> 00:42:48,942
"Better by You,
Better Than Me."

1011
00:42:49,359 --> 00:42:51,695
[reporter] The suit claimed
that subliminal messages

1012
00:42:51,736 --> 00:42:54,698
in the Stained Class album
drove Raymond Belknap

1013
00:42:54,739 --> 00:42:56,366
and James Vance
to shoot themselves

1014
00:42:56,408 --> 00:42:58,118
with a sawed off shotgun

1015
00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:01,288
in a Nevada playground
in December of 1985.

1016
00:43:19,222 --> 00:43:21,057
["Better by You, Better Than Me"
by Judas Priest playing]

1017
00:43:21,099 --> 00:43:23,018
♪ I can't find the words,
my mind is dead ♪

1018
00:43:24,352 --> 00:43:26,938
♪ It's better by you,
better than me ♪

1019
00:43:27,939 --> 00:43:29,816
[man] What was
your kind of music?

1020
00:43:29,858 --> 00:43:32,902
Um, Western,
the old '50s,

1021
00:43:32,944 --> 00:43:35,655
I was, um, used
to some of the music.

1022
00:43:35,697 --> 00:43:37,949
My dad used
to play classicals...

1023
00:43:38,950 --> 00:43:41,745
like The Singing Nun,
the Grand Canyon,

1024
00:43:41,786 --> 00:43:44,164
um, Around the World
in 80 Days.

1025
00:43:45,874 --> 00:43:48,043
The court case
we run through in 1990...

1026
00:43:49,002 --> 00:43:50,128
was pretty much...

1027
00:43:51,296 --> 00:43:53,089
a-- a--
a stitch up, really.

1028
00:43:54,299 --> 00:43:56,259
No, they couldn't
really attack us on...

1029
00:43:57,052 --> 00:43:58,386
lyrical content.

1030
00:44:00,055 --> 00:44:01,765
So, somebody
came up with the idea

1031
00:44:01,806 --> 00:44:03,391
of a subliminal message,
which is very, very clever.

1032
00:44:04,225 --> 00:44:05,977
And I think this is
how they got it to court,

1033
00:44:06,019 --> 00:44:07,937
because
their argument was this,

1034
00:44:07,979 --> 00:44:10,899
uh, "There's a subliminal
message on that record."

1035
00:44:12,067 --> 00:44:14,361
And somebody will say,
"Well, I can't hear anything."

1036
00:44:15,236 --> 00:44:17,697
And they will say, "That's
because it's subliminal."

1037
00:44:19,282 --> 00:44:20,742
And that's
how it got to court.

1038
00:44:20,784 --> 00:44:22,911
You see,
they convinced people in power

1039
00:44:22,952 --> 00:44:24,746
that that was good enough
for a hearing.

1040
00:44:25,288 --> 00:44:26,831
And then it was
up to us, you see...

1041
00:44:27,832 --> 00:44:31,127
to prove that something
you couldn't hear wasn't there.

1042
00:44:31,169 --> 00:44:32,754
[Ian chuckles]

1043
00:44:33,338 --> 00:44:35,382
[Rob] It's the whole business
of free speech in it,

1044
00:44:35,423 --> 00:44:37,425
in its widest spectrum.

1045
00:44:37,467 --> 00:44:40,428
The whole media, uh,
the worlds of com--

1046
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:43,223
media communications,
books, uh,

1047
00:44:43,264 --> 00:44:46,309
filmmaking, everything you can
conceivably think of

1048
00:44:46,351 --> 00:44:48,478
in the art world
is at stake here,

1049
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:49,979
and we are here
to defend it.

1050
00:44:50,021 --> 00:44:52,065
You can't prove

1051
00:44:52,107 --> 00:44:54,943
that a person
takes the message--

1052
00:44:54,984 --> 00:44:57,237
The sender sends a message
and it does something.

1053
00:44:57,278 --> 00:44:58,822
You can't really prove that.

1054
00:44:58,863 --> 00:45:00,865
There are other
contributing factors.

1055
00:45:00,907 --> 00:45:02,409
No one
is an empty vessel.

1056
00:45:02,450 --> 00:45:04,744
Not even a baby
is an empty vessel.

1057
00:45:05,245 --> 00:45:08,373
You bring into the world,
into any situation

1058
00:45:08,415 --> 00:45:10,875
what you think
and experience and believe.

1059
00:45:10,917 --> 00:45:14,379
And you surround yourself
with things that reflect that.

1060
00:45:14,421 --> 00:45:17,966
So isn't that,
Ozzy Osborne or Judas Priest

1061
00:45:18,007 --> 00:45:20,051
made my child commit suicide.

1062
00:45:21,052 --> 00:45:24,806
It's that my child had so many
feelings inside of them that--

1063
00:45:24,848 --> 00:45:27,142
that the music
of AC/DC or Judas Priest

1064
00:45:27,183 --> 00:45:30,019
or-- or whom--
or Black Sabbath,

1065
00:45:30,061 --> 00:45:32,772
is how they felt
they had to express themselves.

1066
00:45:32,814 --> 00:45:35,733
And that's a really different--
different perspective.

1067
00:45:36,985 --> 00:45:41,030
♪ Better by you,
better than me, uh ♪

1068
00:45:41,072 --> 00:45:44,909
♪ You can say
what I only can see, uh ♪

1069
00:45:45,452 --> 00:45:46,870
[woman] Thank you.

1070
00:45:46,911 --> 00:45:49,414
The "uh"
is the exhalation of breath?

1071
00:45:49,998 --> 00:45:51,374
-Yes.
-[woman] Okay.

1072
00:45:51,416 --> 00:45:53,960
Uh, is that
a normal part of your singing?

1073
00:45:55,086 --> 00:45:56,546
That's the way
I've always sung.

1074
00:45:56,588 --> 00:45:58,756
That's just my style.

1075
00:45:59,466 --> 00:46:00,967
[Ian] The only thing
they found, you see,

1076
00:46:01,009 --> 00:46:02,385
was a combination of sounds.

1077
00:46:02,427 --> 00:46:04,846
It was basically
an exhalation of breath.

1078
00:46:04,888 --> 00:46:07,765
Rob was singing "Better by you,
better than me, uh."

1079
00:46:08,475 --> 00:46:11,811
And the closing
of a hi-hat cymbal. [tuts]

1080
00:46:11,853 --> 00:46:15,023
And after about 100 times
of listening to this,

1081
00:46:15,064 --> 00:46:17,150
you might be able
to convince yourself

1082
00:46:17,192 --> 00:46:20,320
that it did sound something
like the words "Do it."

1083
00:46:22,447 --> 00:46:24,115
But, uh,
it didn't in reality.

1084
00:46:24,157 --> 00:46:26,284
It was nonsense,
absolute nonsense.

1085
00:46:27,076 --> 00:46:30,914
So, it-- In essence,
it was a huge waste

1086
00:46:30,955 --> 00:46:33,041
of time, effort,
and resources.

1087
00:46:34,417 --> 00:46:37,587
[woman]
Are there subliminal "Do its"

1088
00:46:37,629 --> 00:46:40,048
on the "Better by You,
Better Than Me" song?

1089
00:46:40,089 --> 00:46:41,174
Absolutely not.

1090
00:46:43,092 --> 00:46:45,345
[Kat] The case against
Judas Priest was dismissed.

1091
00:46:46,095 --> 00:46:49,140
But to understand how music
and the law began to intertwine,

1092
00:46:49,182 --> 00:46:52,268
we have to go back
a few years to the mid-1980s

1093
00:46:52,310 --> 00:46:55,230
and the start of the most
influential non-government group

1094
00:46:55,271 --> 00:46:57,273
who monitored music content,

1095
00:46:57,315 --> 00:46:59,317
The Parents Music
Resource Center.

1096
00:47:00,485 --> 00:47:02,237
It was 1984,

1097
00:47:02,278 --> 00:47:05,031
and Twisted Sister was
at the height of their career.

1098
00:47:05,573 --> 00:47:08,201
And, uh,
we were on the road

1099
00:47:08,243 --> 00:47:11,454
and we started hearing,
uh, people talking,

1100
00:47:11,496 --> 00:47:13,122
'cause we certainly
didn't watch the news,

1101
00:47:13,164 --> 00:47:15,458
that there was this group,

1102
00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:17,961
The Parents Music
Resource Center,

1103
00:47:18,002 --> 00:47:21,464
made up, comprised of
some Washington Insiders' wives,

1104
00:47:21,506 --> 00:47:23,258
uh, that was,

1105
00:47:23,299 --> 00:47:25,468
uh, talking
about censoring rock music.

1106
00:47:26,052 --> 00:47:27,971
And we kinda
just laughed it off.

1107
00:47:28,012 --> 00:47:30,640
Why-- why--
How can radio stations

1108
00:47:30,682 --> 00:47:33,351
broadcasting across the country

1109
00:47:33,393 --> 00:47:36,521
be scared of a bunch of assholes
like the PMRC?

1110
00:47:36,563 --> 00:47:39,566
I hate to say that England
is ever better than America

1111
00:47:39,607 --> 00:47:41,067
'cause usually it isn't,
you know,

1112
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:42,402
but in that case, it is.

1113
00:47:42,443 --> 00:47:44,112
These people
would get laughed off

1114
00:47:44,153 --> 00:47:46,197
the face of
the fucking Earth in England.

1115
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,033
I-- I just don't believe
that anybody could attach

1116
00:47:49,075 --> 00:47:51,411
any importance to what
a bunch of shitheads like that

1117
00:47:51,452 --> 00:47:53,121
have to say
about anything.

1118
00:47:53,162 --> 00:47:55,456
Glorifying incest,
there are songs about rape,

1119
00:47:55,498 --> 00:47:58,001
thrill killing,
uh, sadomasochism.

1120
00:47:58,042 --> 00:48:00,378
There's a song that goes,
"Not a woman, but a whore,

1121
00:48:00,420 --> 00:48:02,922
I can taste the hate,
well, now I'm killing you,

1122
00:48:02,964 --> 00:48:05,508
watch your face turning blue"

1123
00:48:05,550 --> 00:48:07,927
by a group that has sold
two million copies

1124
00:48:07,969 --> 00:48:09,178
of that particular album.

1125
00:48:09,220 --> 00:48:11,139
They're very popular
with young kids.

1126
00:48:11,180 --> 00:48:12,890
[interviewer] You said that,
"The more records we sell,

1127
00:48:12,932 --> 00:48:15,351
the more drugs we get,
and the--

1128
00:48:15,393 --> 00:48:16,978
and the drugs
are fantastic."

1129
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:18,980
[all laugh]

1130
00:48:21,274 --> 00:48:23,067
We already cleared
that one.

1131
00:48:24,068 --> 00:48:26,446
The PMRC was a group
of Washington wives

1132
00:48:26,487 --> 00:48:28,239
who apparently had nothing
better to do

1133
00:48:28,281 --> 00:48:29,616
than to listen
to their kids' records

1134
00:48:29,657 --> 00:48:31,117
and get offended by them.

1135
00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:33,328
Uh, the lead person
was Tipper Gore,

1136
00:48:33,369 --> 00:48:35,538
wife of Al Gore,

1137
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:39,292
and, uh, she was
absolutely outraged

1138
00:48:39,334 --> 00:48:43,379
by what she heard
her kids listening to.

1139
00:48:46,132 --> 00:48:47,717
I bought
the Purple Rain album

1140
00:48:47,759 --> 00:48:49,552
for our 11-year-old.

1141
00:48:49,594 --> 00:48:51,721
And, uh, I didn't know
that "Darling Nikki" was on it,

1142
00:48:51,763 --> 00:48:54,515
and I felt that
it was inappropriate for her

1143
00:48:54,557 --> 00:48:56,142
and her eight
and six-year-old sister

1144
00:48:56,184 --> 00:48:58,645
to hear a song describing
a girl masturbating

1145
00:48:58,686 --> 00:49:00,688
in a hotel lobby
with a magazine.

1146
00:49:00,730 --> 00:49:02,440
Uh, I had no warning.

1147
00:49:02,482 --> 00:49:04,067
In fact, all I knew
was from the me--

1148
00:49:04,108 --> 00:49:05,568
that Prince
was the new creative,

1149
00:49:05,610 --> 00:49:07,362
uh, teen idol
on the scene

1150
00:49:07,403 --> 00:49:09,572
and had just received
a Grammy award.

1151
00:49:09,614 --> 00:49:11,157
So, I would've appreciated it

1152
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:13,284
if I had known
that before purchase.

1153
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:17,205
♪ I knew a girl named Nikki ♪

1154
00:49:17,246 --> 00:49:20,249
♪ I guess you could say
she was a sex fiend ♪

1155
00:49:21,167 --> 00:49:23,503
♪ I met her in a hotel lobby ♪

1156
00:49:23,544 --> 00:49:26,464
♪ Masturbating with a magazine ♪

1157
00:49:27,423 --> 00:49:30,593
[Steve] Now, the movie is
an R-rated movie, first of all.

1158
00:49:30,635 --> 00:49:32,261
So maybe that should
have tipped her off

1159
00:49:32,303 --> 00:49:34,263
that there might be
some content

1160
00:49:34,305 --> 00:49:36,307
not appropriate
for her 11-year-old.

1161
00:49:36,724 --> 00:49:40,478
But she heard
the song "Darling Nikki,"

1162
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,689
which has, you know,

1163
00:49:42,730 --> 00:49:44,565
lyrics that
include masturbation

1164
00:49:44,607 --> 00:49:47,777
and-- and just
highly sexualized content.

1165
00:49:47,819 --> 00:49:50,613
And she got very upset
and she started this movement

1166
00:49:50,655 --> 00:49:54,784
of other politically connected
wives in Washington DC,

1167
00:49:54,826 --> 00:49:57,620
and they had
the connections

1168
00:49:57,662 --> 00:50:00,748
that made it possible
for them to actually

1169
00:50:00,790 --> 00:50:04,752
get news media attention,
to get congressional hearings.

1170
00:50:04,794 --> 00:50:07,255
Has rock and roll
finally gone too far?

1171
00:50:07,296 --> 00:50:09,090
A growing number
of people think so.

1172
00:50:09,132 --> 00:50:11,592
Today they took their case
to a US Senate hearing.

1173
00:50:12,176 --> 00:50:15,304
Their complaint,
that rock lyrics and videos

1174
00:50:15,346 --> 00:50:18,015
are crossing the line
into trash and smack.

1175
00:50:19,183 --> 00:50:20,351
[Senator Danforth] Next, um...

1176
00:50:21,352 --> 00:50:23,646
witness or witnesses,
Susan Baker

1177
00:50:23,688 --> 00:50:26,190
and the Parents Music
Resource Center.

1178
00:50:26,232 --> 00:50:28,651
Mrs. Baker, thank you
very much for being with us.

1179
00:50:28,693 --> 00:50:30,111
Please proceed.

1180
00:50:30,820 --> 00:50:32,572
The Parents Music
Resource Center

1181
00:50:32,613 --> 00:50:34,198
was organized in May
of this year

1182
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:35,533
by mothers of young children.

1183
00:50:36,409 --> 00:50:38,411
The outrageous edge
of rock and roll

1184
00:50:38,453 --> 00:50:41,456
has shifted its focus
from Elvis's pelvis

1185
00:50:41,497 --> 00:50:44,375
to the saw protruding
from Blackie Lawless' codpiece

1186
00:50:44,417 --> 00:50:45,710
on a W.A.S.P. album.

1187
00:50:46,919 --> 00:50:49,756
Rock lyric have turned from,
"I can't get no satisfaction"

1188
00:50:49,797 --> 00:50:52,759
to "I'm going to force you
at gunpoint to eat me alive."

1189
00:50:53,593 --> 00:50:56,137
Now that more and more
elementary school children

1190
00:50:56,179 --> 00:50:58,055
are becoming consumers
of rock music,

1191
00:50:58,097 --> 00:51:00,641
we think it's imperative
to discuss this question.

1192
00:51:01,225 --> 00:51:03,227
What can be done
to help parents

1193
00:51:03,269 --> 00:51:05,521
who want to protect their
children from these messages

1194
00:51:05,563 --> 00:51:07,064
if they want to?

1195
00:51:07,106 --> 00:51:09,609
I think anyone
who objectively looked

1196
00:51:09,650 --> 00:51:13,070
at the proposals
of the PMRC...

1197
00:51:14,113 --> 00:51:17,158
uh, could immediately say
that the...

1198
00:51:17,742 --> 00:51:20,703
impact of what
they were doing

1199
00:51:20,745 --> 00:51:24,415
was so much more
negative and dangerous...

1200
00:51:25,249 --> 00:51:28,252
than any potential benefit
if there was any.

1201
00:51:28,795 --> 00:51:31,088
Now, they weren't
censoring anything.

1202
00:51:31,422 --> 00:51:33,132
They were simply asking,
you know,

1203
00:51:33,174 --> 00:51:35,718
for parents who have
young kids buying records,

1204
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,845
can you place a sticker
on the records

1205
00:51:37,887 --> 00:51:39,764
that might be considered,

1206
00:51:39,806 --> 00:51:43,267
uh, a little too intense
for young years?

1207
00:51:43,601 --> 00:51:46,729
Uh, this created a whole bunch
of debate about censorship.

1208
00:51:46,771 --> 00:51:49,482
It created a whole bunch of
debate about artistic freedom.

1209
00:51:52,193 --> 00:51:55,238
We were
on the "Filthy Fifteen."

1210
00:51:55,279 --> 00:51:59,242
They had a list of 15 bands
they were targeting,

1211
00:51:59,283 --> 00:52:00,785
and we were,
you know, we were in--

1212
00:52:00,827 --> 00:52:03,746
there was metal bands there,
like Priest and AC/DC,

1213
00:52:03,788 --> 00:52:06,415
but it was also
Cyndi Lauper and Prince.

1214
00:52:06,457 --> 00:52:08,584
So, it was sort of--
it was--

1215
00:52:08,626 --> 00:52:10,545
I didn't perceive it as, like,

1216
00:52:10,586 --> 00:52:13,422
a personal attack
in the beginning.

1217
00:52:13,464 --> 00:52:15,591
[Tipper] We are asking
the recording industry

1218
00:52:15,633 --> 00:52:18,636
to voluntarily assist parents
who are concerned

1219
00:52:18,678 --> 00:52:21,556
by placing a warning label
on music products

1220
00:52:21,597 --> 00:52:24,267
inappropriate
for younger children

1221
00:52:24,308 --> 00:52:27,311
due to explicit
sexual or violent lyrics.

1222
00:52:27,979 --> 00:52:30,773
We now propose
one generic warning label

1223
00:52:30,815 --> 00:52:33,609
to inform consumers
in the marketplace

1224
00:52:33,651 --> 00:52:35,653
about lyric content.

1225
00:52:35,695 --> 00:52:38,573
The labels
would apply to all music.

1226
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:40,867
Now it's important
to clearly state

1227
00:52:40,908 --> 00:52:43,160
what our proposal is not.

1228
00:52:43,619 --> 00:52:47,290
A voluntary labeling
is not censorship.

1229
00:52:47,331 --> 00:52:50,376
Censorship implies
restricting access

1230
00:52:50,418 --> 00:52:52,753
or suppressing content.

1231
00:52:53,379 --> 00:52:55,506
This proposal does neither.

1232
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,593
Labeling is little more
than truth in packaging.

1233
00:52:58,634 --> 00:53:02,763
By now, a time-honored principle
in our free enterprise system.

1234
00:53:03,431 --> 00:53:04,682
And without labeling,

1235
00:53:04,724 --> 00:53:07,310
parental guidance
is virtually impossible.

1236
00:53:07,727 --> 00:53:10,897
Well, PMRC came out
and in fact, at the hearings,

1237
00:53:10,938 --> 00:53:14,191
they held up Wendy's solo album,
the WOW album

1238
00:53:14,233 --> 00:53:17,820
as something that, uh, you know,
children shouldn't see.

1239
00:53:17,862 --> 00:53:20,615
That just fueled
the fire for the youth

1240
00:53:20,656 --> 00:53:22,325
who wanted
to go buy these records.

1241
00:53:22,366 --> 00:53:23,951
They wanted to say, hey,
"If I'm not supposed to be

1242
00:53:23,993 --> 00:53:25,912
listening to this, I'm not
supposed to be seeing this.

1243
00:53:25,953 --> 00:53:27,288
That's what I wanna get."

1244
00:53:28,456 --> 00:53:31,250
And then let's not forget
W.A.S.P. with the chainsaw blade

1245
00:53:31,292 --> 00:53:32,710
coming out
of the guy's crotch.

1246
00:53:32,752 --> 00:53:35,338
They really
didn't like that either.

1247
00:53:35,379 --> 00:53:36,714
[Pastor Jeff]
Violence permeates the album

1248
00:53:36,756 --> 00:53:38,299
as well as their stage show,

1249
00:53:38,341 --> 00:53:39,675
which has included
chopping up

1250
00:53:39,717 --> 00:53:41,385
and throwing raw meat
into the audience,

1251
00:53:41,427 --> 00:53:43,346
drinking blood from a skull,

1252
00:53:43,387 --> 00:53:45,640
and until recently,
the simulated rape

1253
00:53:45,681 --> 00:53:47,516
and murder
of a half nude woman.

1254
00:53:47,558 --> 00:53:49,268
This single is available

1255
00:53:49,310 --> 00:53:51,270
in record stores
across the country.

1256
00:53:51,729 --> 00:53:53,356
The cover features
the crotch piece

1257
00:53:53,397 --> 00:53:55,775
that lead singer
Blackie Lawless wears on stage.

1258
00:53:55,816 --> 00:53:58,027
In this picture, there's
blood dripping down his stomach,

1259
00:53:58,069 --> 00:54:00,696
hands and off of the blade
between his legs.

1260
00:54:00,738 --> 00:54:02,323
The song
that accompanies this photo

1261
00:54:02,365 --> 00:54:04,367
is "(Animal) Fuck Like a Beast."

1262
00:54:04,408 --> 00:54:06,869
The Rolling Stones
on their album Undercover

1263
00:54:06,911 --> 00:54:09,288
also sang
a sadomasochistic activity

1264
00:54:09,330 --> 00:54:11,707
in the song
"Tie You Up (The Pain of Love)."

1265
00:54:11,749 --> 00:54:14,919
"You dream of it, passionate,
you even get a rise from it.

1266
00:54:14,961 --> 00:54:18,422
Feel the hot cum
dripping on your thigh from it."

1267
00:54:19,966 --> 00:54:21,550
[Steve]
It was really disappointing

1268
00:54:21,592 --> 00:54:24,470
that the only major artist

1269
00:54:24,512 --> 00:54:28,057
to come and speak
to the hearing

1270
00:54:28,099 --> 00:54:31,519
was Dee Snider
and Frank Zappa.

1271
00:54:32,019 --> 00:54:33,646
And you didn't see
Bruce Springsteen,

1272
00:54:33,688 --> 00:54:36,524
you didn't see
all the other artists

1273
00:54:36,565 --> 00:54:38,401
that were important
at that time.

1274
00:54:38,442 --> 00:54:40,945
Madonna, they weren't there.
They didn't show up.

1275
00:54:41,612 --> 00:54:45,282
If they had shown up,
it would've had an impact.

1276
00:54:45,783 --> 00:54:48,327
You know, honestly,
if they didn't invite me

1277
00:54:48,369 --> 00:54:52,415
to participate at those
Senate hearings,

1278
00:54:52,456 --> 00:54:53,541
I wouldn't have cared.

1279
00:54:53,582 --> 00:54:55,418
I wasn't political at all.

1280
00:54:55,459 --> 00:54:58,421
But to me,
I saw the opportunity

1281
00:54:58,462 --> 00:55:00,923
to carry the flag
into battle.

1282
00:55:00,965 --> 00:55:02,591
That's how I saw it
in my mind.

1283
00:55:02,633 --> 00:55:06,470
It was a maelstrom
of media attention.

1284
00:55:06,804 --> 00:55:08,973
It was for that moment,

1285
00:55:09,015 --> 00:55:11,600
the center of the world.

1286
00:55:11,642 --> 00:55:13,352
That's where everybody
was watching.

1287
00:55:13,394 --> 00:55:15,312
All over the world
they were watching.

1288
00:55:16,397 --> 00:55:19,483
And, uh, I'm in the back
and I meet Frank Zappa.

1289
00:55:21,068 --> 00:55:22,820
The one thing
I remember is

1290
00:55:22,862 --> 00:55:25,990
we were both concerned

1291
00:55:26,032 --> 00:55:28,034
of what John Denver's
stance would be.

1292
00:55:28,659 --> 00:55:30,995
He was not the rocker.

1293
00:55:31,662 --> 00:55:34,540
Uh, at that point
in his career, he was as a--

1294
00:55:34,582 --> 00:55:37,626
as America as apple pie,
as they say.

1295
00:55:38,544 --> 00:55:40,796
I'm here to address the issue
of a possible rating system

1296
00:55:40,838 --> 00:55:42,757
in the recording industry.

1297
00:55:42,798 --> 00:55:44,592
These hearings have been called
to determine whether or not

1298
00:55:44,633 --> 00:55:47,887
the government should intervene
to enforce this practice.

1299
00:55:48,971 --> 00:55:50,973
May I be very clear that
I'm strongly opposed

1300
00:55:51,015 --> 00:55:53,434
to censorship of any kind

1301
00:55:53,476 --> 00:55:55,603
in our society
or anywhere else in the world.

1302
00:55:56,395 --> 00:55:57,813
We do have
some authorities.

1303
00:55:57,855 --> 00:56:00,024
We do have
some responsibilities here.

1304
00:56:01,150 --> 00:56:04,695
And, uh, they're not
all clean-cut John Denvers.

1305
00:56:05,863 --> 00:56:08,115
The only thing we have to fear,
as President Roosevelt said,

1306
00:56:08,157 --> 00:56:09,408
is fear itself.

1307
00:56:09,450 --> 00:56:10,951
I'm not afraid of anything.

1308
00:56:10,993 --> 00:56:12,995
I'm not afraid
of what my children might see--

1309
00:56:13,037 --> 00:56:14,914
But most respectfully,
President Roosevelt

1310
00:56:14,955 --> 00:56:16,123
never heard these records.

1311
00:56:16,165 --> 00:56:17,541
[all laugh]

1312
00:56:18,667 --> 00:56:21,587
You know,
I see a video of me

1313
00:56:21,629 --> 00:56:24,507
walking into those--
to that testimony.

1314
00:56:24,548 --> 00:56:26,801
I am mystified... [laughs]

1315
00:56:26,842 --> 00:56:30,387
...at the cockiness
and the confidence

1316
00:56:30,429 --> 00:56:32,139
that I had
rolling in there.

1317
00:56:32,765 --> 00:56:35,851
I'm-- I'm proud of myself
watching it, but wow.

1318
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:38,562
You know, it's--
I guess it takes...

1319
00:56:39,897 --> 00:56:41,690
being too young and stupid

1320
00:56:41,732 --> 00:56:45,528
to get how serious
the situation is.

1321
00:56:45,569 --> 00:56:46,987
But there
was just a moment

1322
00:56:47,029 --> 00:56:49,156
where that little child
in me was just like,

1323
00:56:49,198 --> 00:56:51,784
"Whoa, this is serious."

1324
00:56:54,161 --> 00:56:56,580
Next, we have,
uh, Mr. Dee Snider,

1325
00:56:56,622 --> 00:56:59,542
the Twisted Sister
Freefall Talent Group.

1326
00:56:59,583 --> 00:57:00,668
[man] What?

1327
00:57:01,585 --> 00:57:03,796
-[indistinct] Twisted Sister.
-Yep.

1328
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:06,549
That's the group.

1329
00:57:07,675 --> 00:57:09,552
[Dee] You know,
they were looking at my picture.

1330
00:57:09,593 --> 00:57:11,720
They were looking at,
you know, all these--

1331
00:57:11,762 --> 00:57:13,222
this imagery

1332
00:57:13,264 --> 00:57:16,100
and figuring,
"Oh, this is the guy we want.

1333
00:57:16,142 --> 00:57:18,894
This is the poster boy
for heavy metal.

1334
00:57:18,936 --> 00:57:20,688
Everything that's wrong with it.

1335
00:57:20,729 --> 00:57:23,440
And, uh, we're gonna
make a fool out of this guy."

1336
00:57:23,941 --> 00:57:25,651
And whoever decided
to bring me

1337
00:57:25,693 --> 00:57:27,236
in had not vetted
Dee Snider,

1338
00:57:27,278 --> 00:57:31,073
they would've known
that the picture that they saw

1339
00:57:31,115 --> 00:57:34,451
was not representative
of the man...

1340
00:57:34,994 --> 00:57:36,745
behind the makeup.

1341
00:57:36,787 --> 00:57:38,581
I'm 30 years old.

1342
00:57:38,622 --> 00:57:41,167
I'm married.
I have a three-year-old son.

1343
00:57:41,208 --> 00:57:43,210
I was born
and raised a Christian,

1344
00:57:43,252 --> 00:57:45,462
and I still adhere
to those principles.

1345
00:57:45,838 --> 00:57:47,756
Believe it or not,
I do not drink,

1346
00:57:47,798 --> 00:57:50,676
I do not smoke,
and I do not do drugs.

1347
00:57:51,135 --> 00:57:54,930
Ms. Gore claimed that one
of my songs, "Under the Blade"

1348
00:57:54,972 --> 00:57:57,683
had lyrics encouraging
sadomasochism,

1349
00:57:57,725 --> 00:57:59,143
bondage and rape.

1350
00:57:59,727 --> 00:58:03,689
I can say categorically
that the only sadomasochism,

1351
00:58:03,731 --> 00:58:07,151
bondage and rape in this song
is in the mind of Ms. Gore.

1352
00:58:08,777 --> 00:58:11,697
Parents can thank
the PMRC for reminding them

1353
00:58:11,739 --> 00:58:14,283
that there is no substitute
for parental guidance,

1354
00:58:14,325 --> 00:58:17,494
but that is where
the PMRC's job ends.

1355
00:58:18,037 --> 00:58:20,664
There is no authority
who has the right

1356
00:58:20,706 --> 00:58:23,626
or the necessary insight
to make these judgements.

1357
00:58:23,667 --> 00:58:26,212
Not myself,
not the federal government,

1358
00:58:26,253 --> 00:58:28,547
not some recording
industry committee,

1359
00:58:28,589 --> 00:58:31,050
not the PTA,
not the RIAA

1360
00:58:31,091 --> 00:58:33,510
and certainly
not the PMRC.

1361
00:58:35,012 --> 00:58:37,932
[Kat] Following
the Senate hearings in 1985,

1362
00:58:37,973 --> 00:58:40,100
the PMRC
and the Recording Industry

1363
00:58:40,142 --> 00:58:41,810
Association of America

1364
00:58:41,852 --> 00:58:43,812
agreed to implement
a labeling system.

1365
00:58:43,854 --> 00:58:47,816
And in 1987,
Ice-T's Rhyme Pays

1366
00:58:47,858 --> 00:58:49,526
became the first album
to be labeled

1367
00:58:49,568 --> 00:58:51,195
with a PMRC warning sticker.

1368
00:58:52,655 --> 00:58:54,281
But even after
reaching the agreement,

1369
00:58:54,323 --> 00:58:56,867
this warning wasn't widely
seen until years later

1370
00:58:56,909 --> 00:58:59,286
and left a lot
of legal gray area to consider.

1371
00:59:00,704 --> 00:59:03,540
[chuckles] I guess
it wouldn't be any surprise

1372
00:59:03,582 --> 00:59:05,209
that sooner or later

1373
00:59:05,251 --> 00:59:08,212
punk rock
would get in the rifle scope

1374
00:59:08,254 --> 00:59:10,214
of the Parents
Music Resource Center

1375
00:59:10,256 --> 00:59:11,882
and Tipper and her pals.

1376
00:59:12,758 --> 00:59:14,677
When the Dead Kennedys
released their latest album,

1377
00:59:14,718 --> 00:59:17,012
Frankenchrist,
it bore the following label.

1378
00:59:27,314 --> 00:59:30,567
The poster is a graphic
depiction of genitalia

1379
00:59:30,609 --> 00:59:32,987
that has been on display
in some European museums.

1380
00:59:33,028 --> 00:59:34,697
You see,
a woman charged

1381
00:59:34,738 --> 00:59:36,323
Jello Biafra
and the Dead Kennedys

1382
00:59:36,365 --> 00:59:39,034
with distributing harmful
material to a minor

1383
00:59:39,076 --> 00:59:41,245
when her 14-year-old
daughter bought the album.

1384
00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:43,622
This case was considered
precedent setting

1385
00:59:43,664 --> 00:59:45,207
by many in
the entertainment industry

1386
00:59:45,249 --> 00:59:47,084
and it finally
went to court last week.

1387
00:59:48,043 --> 00:59:49,586
[Jello] They thought
I'd just pay a fine

1388
00:59:49,628 --> 00:59:51,839
and then
they could go after Ozzy

1389
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:54,258
and Prince
and Madonna and the rest.

1390
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:57,219
You know, looked a year,
year and a half in jail,

1391
00:59:57,261 --> 00:59:59,596
a $1,500 fine.

1392
00:59:59,638 --> 01:00:01,265
But, um,

1393
01:00:01,307 --> 01:00:04,101
even if I was only fined
ten bucks and a plea bargain,

1394
01:00:04,143 --> 01:00:05,644
I wasn't gonna plea bargain.

1395
01:00:06,103 --> 01:00:07,730
And so, what they hope
to accomplish

1396
01:00:07,771 --> 01:00:10,607
is to set the kind of
ugly chain of precedence.

1397
01:00:10,649 --> 01:00:13,110
Or even if you walk out
and get coffee

1398
01:00:13,152 --> 01:00:14,695
for the director of a movie

1399
01:00:14,737 --> 01:00:17,031
that someone else puts
an X rating on

1400
01:00:17,072 --> 01:00:18,699
later on,

1401
01:00:18,741 --> 01:00:20,034
you could be prosecuted
for the whole movie.

1402
01:00:20,075 --> 01:00:21,201
[woman]
Guilty by association, you mean?

1403
01:00:21,243 --> 01:00:22,661
Yes, in other words,

1404
01:00:22,703 --> 01:00:24,246
guilt by association
to the point

1405
01:00:24,288 --> 01:00:26,248
where people won't wanna
associate to create good art,

1406
01:00:26,290 --> 01:00:28,834
they'll be scared
and for good reason.

1407
01:00:28,876 --> 01:00:31,170
And anytime anybody
is afraid to say

1408
01:00:31,211 --> 01:00:33,339
or create what they believe,

1409
01:00:33,380 --> 01:00:35,257
that in itself
is censorship.

1410
01:00:35,299 --> 01:00:38,052
The poster one was really--
That was incredible

1411
01:00:38,093 --> 01:00:40,179
that they got in
so much trouble over that.

1412
01:00:41,138 --> 01:00:42,139
But...

1413
01:00:43,223 --> 01:00:45,642
I think in some ways they--
they're, you know...

1414
01:00:46,352 --> 01:00:48,145
The Dead Kennedys
were provocateurs.

1415
01:00:48,854 --> 01:00:50,147
You know, Biafra was--

1416
01:00:51,940 --> 01:00:53,150
He was itching
for a fight.

1417
01:00:55,152 --> 01:00:56,820
This is censorship,

1418
01:00:56,862 --> 01:00:59,073
even if it's not
what Mrs. Gore says

1419
01:00:59,114 --> 01:01:00,699
she is advocating.

1420
01:01:00,741 --> 01:01:02,868
All people want to know,
where music is concerned,

1421
01:01:02,910 --> 01:01:05,204
is some information,
the same kind that's available

1422
01:01:05,245 --> 01:01:07,998
in the other entertainment media
so they can make decisions

1423
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,667
about their younger children,
and protect them

1424
01:01:10,709 --> 01:01:13,295
from explicit sex and violence
in the media.

1425
01:01:13,337 --> 01:01:15,130
Because young kids
can't handle it.

1426
01:01:15,172 --> 01:01:16,965
Your poster is so obscene

1427
01:01:17,007 --> 01:01:19,134
that you can't even
put it on television,

1428
01:01:19,176 --> 01:01:20,803
but it's available to kids

1429
01:01:20,844 --> 01:01:22,304
in-- At any age
in the record store.

1430
01:01:22,346 --> 01:01:24,348
So maybe kids
can make up their own minds,

1431
01:01:24,390 --> 01:01:26,141
instead of having you
make up their minds for them.

1432
01:01:26,183 --> 01:01:29,436
-Parents should--
-We will be right back.

1433
01:01:29,478 --> 01:01:30,813
[Bob] You know,

1434
01:01:30,854 --> 01:01:34,400
no other rock journalist editor

1435
01:01:34,441 --> 01:01:36,110
wanted any part of it.

1436
01:01:36,151 --> 01:01:37,736
And they found Spin,
and thought,

1437
01:01:37,778 --> 01:01:39,238
"Well, we'll ask this guy."
And I went, "Yes.

1438
01:01:39,279 --> 01:01:41,115
When? How do I get there?

1439
01:01:41,156 --> 01:01:43,117
Send a car now."

1440
01:01:43,158 --> 01:01:45,369
You know, saying
something isn't censorship.

1441
01:01:45,411 --> 01:01:47,955
Unfortunately,
doesn't make it not censorship,

1442
01:01:47,996 --> 01:01:49,331
unfortunately, and I think
you're a very charming

1443
01:01:49,373 --> 01:01:51,166
and very lovely lady,
and I believe

1444
01:01:51,208 --> 01:01:52,709
you're very well intentioned,

1445
01:01:52,751 --> 01:01:54,044
but I think
that what you're doing

1446
01:01:54,086 --> 01:01:55,712
is potentially
very, very dangerous.

1447
01:01:55,754 --> 01:01:57,423
I don't think anybody
is enough of a surgeon

1448
01:01:57,464 --> 01:01:59,341
that they can precisely cut off

1449
01:01:59,383 --> 01:02:00,968
that which
is dangerous to society

1450
01:02:01,009 --> 01:02:02,845
and protect everything that, uh,

1451
01:02:02,886 --> 01:02:04,763
potentially makes society grow.

1452
01:02:04,805 --> 01:02:08,016
And I actually
out argued to Gore politely

1453
01:02:08,058 --> 01:02:09,852
rather than--
I didn't call her a Nazi,

1454
01:02:09,893 --> 01:02:11,437
which Jello Biafra did,
I kept saying to him in the--

1455
01:02:11,478 --> 01:02:14,815
the commercial break,
"Stop doing that," you know.

1456
01:02:14,857 --> 01:02:16,859
And-- Because
that's what they wanted.

1457
01:02:16,900 --> 01:02:18,777
Because then they say, "Oh,
look at this terrible person,

1458
01:02:18,819 --> 01:02:21,029
this rock star,
his name's Jello Biafra,

1459
01:02:21,071 --> 01:02:23,031
his band's called
the Dead Kennedys.

1460
01:02:23,073 --> 01:02:25,033
That's what we're up against."

1461
01:02:25,075 --> 01:02:26,869
And at the end
when the show was over,

1462
01:02:26,910 --> 01:02:29,037
Tipper Gore came up to me,
she was literally trembling.

1463
01:02:29,079 --> 01:02:30,456
She said, "I don't know
why we're fighting.

1464
01:02:30,497 --> 01:02:32,958
I-- I'm against nuclear war."

1465
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,502
I said, "Well, on that point
we agree." [laughs]

1466
01:02:36,420 --> 01:02:38,213
[Kat] Jello Biafra's trial was

1467
01:02:38,255 --> 01:02:39,882
eventually thrown out of court.

1468
01:02:39,923 --> 01:02:41,341
But this trial
further opened the door

1469
01:02:41,383 --> 01:02:43,927
to legally
ruling art to be obscene.

1470
01:02:45,220 --> 01:02:48,765
In 1989,
Miami hip hop group 2 Live Crew

1471
01:02:48,807 --> 01:02:50,893
would find themselves
on the front lines in the battle

1472
01:02:50,934 --> 01:02:53,145
for controversial
artistic expression.

1473
01:02:55,230 --> 01:02:57,232
Well, my name is Jack Thompson.

1474
01:02:57,274 --> 01:03:01,153
I live in Miami, Florida,
and have since 1976.

1475
01:03:01,612 --> 01:03:04,990
Some would call me the, uh,

1476
01:03:05,032 --> 01:03:07,910
uh, chief censor

1477
01:03:07,951 --> 01:03:10,496
in the United States
when it comes to music.

1478
01:03:10,537 --> 01:03:12,247
So, what I did was,

1479
01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:14,917
I sent the transcribed lyrics

1480
01:03:14,958 --> 01:03:17,169
of the As Nasty
as They Wanna Be album

1481
01:03:17,211 --> 01:03:20,881
to all 67 sheriffs
in the state of Florida.

1482
01:03:20,923 --> 01:03:22,090
And in doing so, I said,

1483
01:03:22,132 --> 01:03:24,384
"Here is an album

1484
01:03:24,426 --> 01:03:27,471
being sold in your jurisdiction.

1485
01:03:28,263 --> 01:03:30,349
It's being sold,

1486
01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:34,186
uh, we know, to kids under
the age of the age rating."

1487
01:03:34,978 --> 01:03:37,940
So that's how--
That-- that's what lit the fuse.

1488
01:03:37,981 --> 01:03:40,275
We-- we gonna pave the way
for everybody else

1489
01:03:40,317 --> 01:03:42,486
like we always do,
going into court,

1490
01:03:42,528 --> 01:03:45,280
and fight everybody,
and, you know--

1491
01:03:45,322 --> 01:03:47,241
But right is right, you know.

1492
01:03:47,282 --> 01:03:49,201
We're opposed
not against the group,

1493
01:03:49,243 --> 01:03:50,953
we're opposed against
the lyrics, the obscenity.

1494
01:03:50,994 --> 01:03:53,622
In America
should be freedom of speech.

1495
01:03:53,664 --> 01:03:56,833
But then at the same time,
they say, "Watch what you say."

1496
01:03:56,875 --> 01:03:58,126
I heard the album, I was--

1497
01:03:58,168 --> 01:04:01,255
And I went inside,
and I-- I cried.

1498
01:04:01,296 --> 01:04:04,174
[crowd chanting]
2 Live Crew! 2 Live Crew!

1499
01:04:04,216 --> 01:04:07,052
And I received word

1500
01:04:07,094 --> 01:04:10,138
that a judge in Fort Myers

1501
01:04:10,180 --> 01:04:12,516
had issued a ruling in response

1502
01:04:12,558 --> 01:04:15,894
to the sheriff receiving
these transcribed lyrics

1503
01:04:15,936 --> 01:04:17,563
that As Nasty as They Wanna Be

1504
01:04:17,604 --> 01:04:21,858
was probably obscene,
there was probable cause,

1505
01:04:21,900 --> 01:04:24,111
uh, to find that it was obscene.

1506
01:04:25,904 --> 01:04:29,491
This obscenity approach
is, on one hand, kind of genius

1507
01:04:29,533 --> 01:04:32,452
because it avoids all
the First Amendment protections

1508
01:04:32,494 --> 01:04:34,371
of a piece of expression.

1509
01:04:34,413 --> 01:04:38,667
So, it's a genius attack
of going after it for obscenity

1510
01:04:38,709 --> 01:04:41,169
rather than saying
it's too sexually explicit

1511
01:04:41,211 --> 01:04:43,630
or it's inappropriate
for children or whatever.

1512
01:04:43,672 --> 01:04:47,384
Take it all the way,
and say it is the worst thing

1513
01:04:47,426 --> 01:04:50,137
it could possibly be,
which is obscene.

1514
01:04:50,178 --> 01:04:52,306
And the weirdest part
of the whole thing

1515
01:04:52,347 --> 01:04:55,559
is that such an audacious claim
about a piece of music,

1516
01:04:55,601 --> 01:04:57,519
and it actually worked.

1517
01:04:58,687 --> 01:05:02,065
A judge actually ruled
that it was obscene.

1518
01:05:03,025 --> 01:05:06,361
And as a result, all these
other things could happen.

1519
01:05:06,403 --> 01:05:08,697
And if you look at performing
the music in public,

1520
01:05:08,739 --> 01:05:10,240
they were arrested for it.

1521
01:05:10,949 --> 01:05:12,242
There was someone
who was charged

1522
01:05:12,284 --> 01:05:14,286
with distributing
obscene materials

1523
01:05:14,328 --> 01:05:17,331
to minors for selling a copy
of a 2 Live Crew album.

1524
01:05:18,248 --> 01:05:20,959
It is treated basically
the same as pornography.

1525
01:05:21,752 --> 01:05:23,420
If it's freedom of speech,

1526
01:05:23,462 --> 01:05:25,422
it should be truly
freedom of speech.

1527
01:05:25,464 --> 01:05:29,384
It shouldn't be because
this group deems it unfit.

1528
01:05:29,426 --> 01:05:31,094
It shouldn't be that way.

1529
01:05:31,136 --> 01:05:33,263
Those are the fucking rules.

1530
01:05:33,305 --> 01:05:35,599
Those are the rules
that everybody agreed on.

1531
01:05:35,641 --> 01:05:39,353
I think there's a limit on
what warrants protected speech.

1532
01:05:39,394 --> 01:05:40,729
And I think speech that--

1533
01:05:40,771 --> 01:05:43,065
that harms,
that incite violence,

1534
01:05:43,106 --> 01:05:45,400
that revels
in extreme depictions

1535
01:05:45,442 --> 01:05:47,569
of violence against women,

1536
01:05:47,611 --> 01:05:51,615
uh, is not worthy
of free speech protection.

1537
01:05:51,657 --> 01:05:54,451
I-- I don't think it's artistic.

1538
01:05:54,493 --> 01:05:58,288
It contributes
to a broader cultural narrative

1539
01:05:58,330 --> 01:06:01,124
that is harmful to women.

1540
01:06:01,583 --> 01:06:04,252
This is our national anthem.

1541
01:06:04,294 --> 01:06:06,213
Okay, can we have
a moment of silence

1542
01:06:06,254 --> 01:06:07,714
for our national anthem?

1543
01:06:08,590 --> 01:06:12,636
♪ Somebody say, "Hey ♪

1544
01:06:14,513 --> 01:06:18,308
♪ We want some pussy" ♪

1545
01:06:18,350 --> 01:06:20,310
♪ Somebody, somebody ♪

1546
01:06:20,352 --> 01:06:22,104
♪ Somebody say ♪

1547
01:06:22,145 --> 01:06:25,399
♪ "Hey, we want some pussy" ♪

1548
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:28,527
♪ Hey, we want some pussy ♪

1549
01:06:29,653 --> 01:06:32,364
[Betty] Uh,
I think the sexuality or, uh--

1550
01:06:32,406 --> 01:06:36,451
That is depicted
in music or any expression,

1551
01:06:36,493 --> 01:06:39,663
at least it-- it causes
people to talk about it.

1552
01:06:40,330 --> 01:06:42,457
And I think
maybe that's healthy,

1553
01:06:42,499 --> 01:06:44,501
you know,
to at least talk about it.

1554
01:06:44,543 --> 01:06:46,378
♪ 'Cause I won't say please ♪

1555
01:06:46,420 --> 01:06:50,215
♪ Just nibble on my dick
like a rat does cheese ♪

1556
01:06:50,257 --> 01:06:51,717
You know, there are
people out there that say

1557
01:06:51,758 --> 01:06:53,635
that all the-- the arrests
and the hoop on all that

1558
01:06:53,677 --> 01:06:55,470
are the best things that ever
could have happened to you guys.

1559
01:06:55,512 --> 01:06:58,140
And that's why y'all
are, uh-- Are making money.

1560
01:06:58,181 --> 01:07:00,517
It is actually helping us,
and we're selling more records.

1561
01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:03,228
I mean, we're
on a totally different level now

1562
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:05,230
than we were
last year this time.

1563
01:07:05,272 --> 01:07:07,023
And, you know.

1564
01:07:07,065 --> 01:07:09,401
[Alan] That they were
more famous for being in court

1565
01:07:09,443 --> 01:07:11,695
than, uh,
for any of their music.

1566
01:07:11,737 --> 01:07:15,741
Um, so we did have
a period of time

1567
01:07:15,782 --> 01:07:17,492
where there was
a lot of discussion

1568
01:07:17,534 --> 01:07:20,662
about what should
and should not be put on record,

1569
01:07:20,704 --> 01:07:24,166
uh, and-- and-- and put on sale.

1570
01:07:24,207 --> 01:07:26,334
Every year is a different thing.

1571
01:07:26,376 --> 01:07:29,463
I mean, last year
it was, uh, Public Enemy.

1572
01:07:29,504 --> 01:07:31,173
And the year before that,
they would say,

1573
01:07:31,214 --> 01:07:32,841
"If you go
to a rap concert, your--

1574
01:07:32,883 --> 01:07:34,509
your kid
might get killed," you know.

1575
01:07:34,551 --> 01:07:36,553
And now it's this year,
it's 2 Live Crew.

1576
01:07:36,595 --> 01:07:38,221
Next year
it'll be somebody else.

1577
01:07:38,263 --> 01:07:41,266
The PMRC
sticker was an admission

1578
01:07:41,308 --> 01:07:43,059
that it
shouldn't be sold to kids.

1579
01:07:43,602 --> 01:07:46,730
It was an adult album
with an adult sticker on it

1580
01:07:46,772 --> 01:07:49,566
sold despite promises
by the industry

1581
01:07:49,608 --> 01:07:53,403
and by 2 Live Crew, uh,
to other people's children.

1582
01:07:54,905 --> 01:07:57,365
When people
talk about 2 Live Crew,

1583
01:07:57,407 --> 01:08:00,368
they often focus on the--
At the end of the day,

1584
01:08:00,410 --> 01:08:02,788
the obscenity ruling
was overruled.

1585
01:08:03,413 --> 01:08:04,831
Goodness wins.

1586
01:08:04,873 --> 01:08:07,417
And when I look at that,

1587
01:08:07,459 --> 01:08:09,127
I think, at first,

1588
01:08:09,169 --> 01:08:11,755
it pretty much
destroyed their career.

1589
01:08:11,797 --> 01:08:15,091
It affected
mainstream views towards rap.

1590
01:08:15,675 --> 01:08:18,178
Um, it required them

1591
01:08:18,220 --> 01:08:20,388
to shell out
an enormous amount of money

1592
01:08:20,430 --> 01:08:22,224
to defend themselves.

1593
01:08:22,265 --> 01:08:24,267
And was disruptive
for years of their life.

1594
01:08:24,309 --> 01:08:25,435
How is that a win?

1595
01:08:26,853 --> 01:08:28,563
[interviewer]
Has it been expensive?

1596
01:08:28,605 --> 01:08:30,565
Oh, yeah. Cost a lot of money.

1597
01:08:30,607 --> 01:08:33,568
I mean, made a lot of
lawyer's wealthy.

1598
01:08:34,778 --> 01:08:36,655
It blew open the door.

1599
01:08:36,696 --> 01:08:40,826
Um, which led
to the parental advisory sticker

1600
01:08:40,867 --> 01:08:42,494
of that rap is something

1601
01:08:42,536 --> 01:08:44,246
that needs
to be controlled and regulated.

1602
01:08:44,287 --> 01:08:46,331
It mainstreamed that idea,

1603
01:08:46,373 --> 01:08:47,749
and gave it root

1604
01:08:47,791 --> 01:08:50,502
in a way that
has never become unrooted since.

1605
01:08:51,294 --> 01:08:53,797
It wasn't NWA,
it wasn't Public Enemy,

1606
01:08:53,839 --> 01:08:55,674
it was 2 Live Crew.

1607
01:08:55,715 --> 01:08:57,759
[Kat] 2 Live Crew's
follow up album,

1608
01:08:57,801 --> 01:08:59,594
Banned in the USA

1609
01:08:59,636 --> 01:09:01,555
was the first album to receive
the now common

1610
01:09:01,596 --> 01:09:04,182
black and white
parental advisory label,

1611
01:09:04,224 --> 01:09:05,725
which has become
industry standard

1612
01:09:05,767 --> 01:09:07,811
on any music deemed offensive.

1613
01:09:08,812 --> 01:09:11,273
The-- They did get
the warning sticker through,

1614
01:09:11,314 --> 01:09:12,774
and that was fine,

1615
01:09:12,816 --> 01:09:15,277
but there were
some consequences of that.

1616
01:09:15,318 --> 01:09:18,530
For example, Walmart
refused to carry any records

1617
01:09:18,572 --> 01:09:22,701
with a, uh,
parental advisory sticker on it.

1618
01:09:22,742 --> 01:09:26,621
That hurt sales
of artists who were

1619
01:09:26,663 --> 01:09:28,498
into the raunchy sort of stuff.

1620
01:09:29,207 --> 01:09:31,459
And at the time,
Walmart was one of the biggest

1621
01:09:31,501 --> 01:09:34,671
sellers of CDs
and records in America,

1622
01:09:34,713 --> 01:09:36,298
in the world.

1623
01:09:36,339 --> 01:09:38,550
And the industry
is not anybody's fucking friend,

1624
01:09:38,592 --> 01:09:41,636
especially music's friend,
doesn't give a shit about music.

1625
01:09:41,678 --> 01:09:44,306
It's into commodities,
and it's into investing

1626
01:09:44,347 --> 01:09:46,182
in a fucking specific commodity.

1627
01:09:46,224 --> 01:09:48,810
Doesn't care about the people
that made it or anything.

1628
01:09:48,852 --> 01:09:52,355
Certain stores
would not carry sticker records.

1629
01:09:52,814 --> 01:09:54,858
And then
it went one step further.

1630
01:09:55,525 --> 01:09:57,485
I never even imagined this one,

1631
01:09:57,527 --> 01:10:01,489
but it wasn't until I did
my movie Strangeland in 1997,

1632
01:10:01,531 --> 01:10:03,700
and I found out
that the soundtrack

1633
01:10:03,742 --> 01:10:06,286
for my album had a Kid Rock song

1634
01:10:06,328 --> 01:10:08,371
called "Fuck Off"
that was removed.

1635
01:10:09,873 --> 01:10:12,584
And then there was
other songs, uh, on there

1636
01:10:12,626 --> 01:10:14,294
that words, like--
Did the censorship,

1637
01:10:14,336 --> 01:10:15,629
where they flipped the tapes.

1638
01:10:15,670 --> 01:10:16,713
It goes...
[imitates tape screeching]

1639
01:10:16,755 --> 01:10:18,298
...in the middle of the song.

1640
01:10:18,340 --> 01:10:20,550
And I got a lot of
pushback from people

1641
01:10:20,592 --> 01:10:22,469
who were on the soundtrack,
these metal bands going,

1642
01:10:22,510 --> 01:10:24,304
"Hey, what the fuck?
What did you do?"

1643
01:10:24,346 --> 01:10:25,388
And it wasn't us.

1644
01:10:25,805 --> 01:10:27,599
It was the record labels

1645
01:10:27,641 --> 01:10:30,018
bowing down to the major stores,

1646
01:10:30,060 --> 01:10:32,979
because they wanted
that Best Buy sale.

1647
01:10:33,021 --> 01:10:35,899
It's all about sort of
controlling youth culture,

1648
01:10:35,941 --> 01:10:37,901
controlling
what they have access to.

1649
01:10:38,860 --> 01:10:41,529
Um, and I-- It was
an effective form of censorship.

1650
01:10:41,571 --> 01:10:44,491
It was probably
one of the most effective forms

1651
01:10:44,532 --> 01:10:45,867
of censorship that I've seen.

1652
01:10:45,909 --> 01:10:48,453
Those labels,
that-- that was it.

1653
01:10:48,495 --> 01:10:50,664
You go
into the music store, you--

1654
01:10:50,705 --> 01:10:53,708
There's a label
on that CD or tape,

1655
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:55,251
I'm not going home with it.

1656
01:10:55,835 --> 01:10:57,837
So, it was incredibly effective.

1657
01:10:57,879 --> 01:10:59,422
I-- I wasn't doing album art

1658
01:10:59,464 --> 01:11:01,675
that necessitated
having those stickers on.

1659
01:11:01,716 --> 01:11:04,469
But, uh, what I found is
very interesting was,

1660
01:11:04,511 --> 01:11:07,889
I remember talking
to somebody at a record label

1661
01:11:07,931 --> 01:11:09,683
and he was-- he was--
I said, "What do you think

1662
01:11:09,724 --> 01:11:11,685
about all
these stickers and, you know,

1663
01:11:11,726 --> 01:11:13,311
is it doing any good?"

1664
01:11:13,353 --> 01:11:14,813
And he said,
"Oh, it's doing the opposite."

1665
01:11:14,854 --> 01:11:17,399
He said, "Kids
are now thinking, "Oh, great.

1666
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:18,775
I don't have to go, and look for

1667
01:11:18,817 --> 01:11:20,402
these records
with [indistinct] lyrics

1668
01:11:20,443 --> 01:11:21,945
'cause they're
already telling me

1669
01:11:21,987 --> 01:11:23,571
with a sticker on the front.'"

1670
01:11:23,613 --> 01:11:26,616
So, it has--
had an adverse effect, you know.

1671
01:11:26,658 --> 01:11:28,660
Well, those things
sold 10 times.

1672
01:11:28,702 --> 01:11:30,495
Literally,
I heard this from executives,

1673
01:11:30,537 --> 01:11:33,456
10 times
what they expected to sell.

1674
01:11:33,498 --> 01:11:36,084
So they sold a million copies
instead of a hundred thousand.

1675
01:11:36,126 --> 01:11:38,837
They were selling
through the roof, every label.

1676
01:11:38,878 --> 01:11:40,463
Britney Spears had one on her.

1677
01:11:40,505 --> 01:11:42,549
I mean, everybody
was trying to get a sticker.

1678
01:11:42,590 --> 01:11:44,467
Well, it's, you know,
you know, you tell a kid

1679
01:11:44,509 --> 01:11:46,094
not to do something,
and he's gonna do it.

1680
01:11:46,136 --> 01:11:49,431
It's, um, yeah.

1681
01:11:49,472 --> 01:11:51,808
I think-- I think that
the PMRC did sort of backfire

1682
01:11:51,850 --> 01:11:54,894
because I think
that, to a degree, um,

1683
01:11:54,936 --> 01:11:57,522
putting
a warning label on a record

1684
01:11:57,564 --> 01:11:59,441
saying "This has
cuss words on it,"

1685
01:11:59,482 --> 01:12:01,401
is like a candy to a baby.

1686
01:12:01,443 --> 01:12:03,611
You know, like all
the teenagers are going,

1687
01:12:03,653 --> 01:12:05,113
"Well, fuck yeah, man,

1688
01:12:05,155 --> 01:12:06,740
I-- I wanna
listen to that then."

1689
01:12:07,657 --> 01:12:09,409
I wasn't opposed to the sticker,

1690
01:12:09,451 --> 01:12:12,078
that Fear of a Black Planet
got in 1990,

1691
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:14,998
the first year
they distributed the sticker.

1692
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:18,334
But also,
I was very clear on saying

1693
01:12:18,376 --> 01:12:20,712
that they didn't do
their homework enough to realize

1694
01:12:20,754 --> 01:12:23,506
that within that album
of Fear of a Black Planet,

1695
01:12:23,548 --> 01:12:26,092
there wasn't anything derogatory

1696
01:12:26,134 --> 01:12:28,344
or overused, cursing.

1697
01:12:28,386 --> 01:12:30,096
It was just theory.

1698
01:12:30,138 --> 01:12:32,766
Matter of fact, took a smack
at racism in the United States,

1699
01:12:32,807 --> 01:12:36,728
Fear of a Black Planet
and also Around the World.

1700
01:12:36,770 --> 01:12:38,855
And-- and to get
a sticker for that,

1701
01:12:38,897 --> 01:12:41,941
I thought was just lazy.
For what?

1702
01:12:41,983 --> 01:12:44,402
Because the group
is named Public Enemy?

1703
01:12:46,488 --> 01:12:47,906
That's just laziness.

1704
01:12:48,740 --> 01:12:51,493
I'm saying, we didn't mind
getting a sticker anyway.

1705
01:12:51,534 --> 01:12:52,952
We wore it like a badge.

1706
01:12:54,537 --> 01:12:56,498
[Kat] The rise
of the parental advisory label

1707
01:12:56,539 --> 01:12:58,958
coincided
with the rise of gangster rap,

1708
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,461
a controversial
sub-genre of hip hop,

1709
01:13:01,503 --> 01:13:03,505
which began appearing
on the top 40 charts

1710
01:13:03,546 --> 01:13:05,131
by the early '90s.

1711
01:13:05,173 --> 01:13:07,050
We are not against rap,

1712
01:13:07,092 --> 01:13:09,594
we're not against rappers,

1713
01:13:09,636 --> 01:13:13,515
but we are against those thugs
who disgrace

1714
01:13:13,556 --> 01:13:16,893
our community, our women,

1715
01:13:16,935 --> 01:13:19,687
who disgrace our culture,

1716
01:13:19,729 --> 01:13:21,981
and who have absolutely nothing

1717
01:13:22,023 --> 01:13:24,526
of redemptive value to offer,

1718
01:13:24,567 --> 01:13:28,446
except the legacy of violence
and sexual assault

1719
01:13:28,488 --> 01:13:29,864
and foul language.

1720
01:13:29,906 --> 01:13:31,491
[audience applauding]

1721
01:13:31,533 --> 01:13:34,702
Anyone will tell you
or show you examples

1722
01:13:34,744 --> 01:13:37,956
in their life
when they have not been heard,

1723
01:13:37,997 --> 01:13:39,791
and they've had to
make a louder noise.

1724
01:13:40,458 --> 01:13:44,170
People describe something

1725
01:13:44,212 --> 01:13:46,047
almost with a journalistic

1726
01:13:46,089 --> 01:13:49,551
level of authenticity,

1727
01:13:49,592 --> 01:13:51,136
and yet,
what they're talking about,

1728
01:13:51,177 --> 01:13:53,179
about being worried
about walking down the street

1729
01:13:53,221 --> 01:13:55,890
and being shot,

1730
01:13:55,932 --> 01:13:57,684
that's the expression of reality

1731
01:13:57,725 --> 01:13:59,769
that makes some people
very uncomfortable.

1732
01:14:00,562 --> 01:14:03,064
There's ignorance.
Ignorance is dangerous.

1733
01:14:03,106 --> 01:14:06,943
Race, uh, has been
at the core, the foundation

1734
01:14:06,985 --> 01:14:10,071
and the institutionalized
platform

1735
01:14:10,113 --> 01:14:13,116
of, uh--
Of the United States of America,

1736
01:14:13,158 --> 01:14:15,910
and therefore, out the world--
Throughout the world.

1737
01:14:15,952 --> 01:14:18,955
So, yeah,
there's a lot of situations

1738
01:14:18,997 --> 01:14:20,623
that people
don't think is race-based,

1739
01:14:20,665 --> 01:14:23,877
but it sprouts out of that.

1740
01:14:23,918 --> 01:14:27,630
And, you know, people
don't holler until they hit.

1741
01:14:28,173 --> 01:14:29,883
"It's gonna go away. It's a fad.

1742
01:14:29,924 --> 01:14:31,551
We don't have to
worry about it."

1743
01:14:31,593 --> 01:14:33,511
And then it doesn't, right?

1744
01:14:33,553 --> 01:14:36,055
And then-- then it's like,
"Well, we have to take steps

1745
01:14:36,097 --> 01:14:37,765
to censor this then."

1746
01:14:37,807 --> 01:14:40,894
Hip hop, or is it art
or is it poisonous?

1747
01:14:40,935 --> 01:14:42,937
[announcer]
Coming up next on Geraldo,

1748
01:14:42,979 --> 01:14:45,648
is rap music killing your kids?

1749
01:14:45,690 --> 01:14:47,775
I think it was
a real signal to parents

1750
01:14:47,817 --> 01:14:50,778
and, you know,
to conservative religious groups

1751
01:14:50,820 --> 01:14:52,822
that this is--
This is happening.

1752
01:14:52,864 --> 01:14:54,949
"Like, buckle up."

1753
01:14:54,991 --> 01:14:56,576
You don't--
You don't understand it.

1754
01:14:56,618 --> 01:14:59,204
You're not a part of it,
so how can you, like,

1755
01:14:59,245 --> 01:15:01,080
make a judgment on it,
you know what I mean?

1756
01:15:01,122 --> 01:15:02,790
It's-- it's like--

1757
01:15:02,832 --> 01:15:04,209
It's non-relatable to you.

1758
01:15:04,250 --> 01:15:05,960
So, of course,
like, if you don't understand it

1759
01:15:06,002 --> 01:15:07,587
and then you-- All you see is

1760
01:15:07,629 --> 01:15:10,506
negative aspects surrounding it,

1761
01:15:10,548 --> 01:15:14,010
you are going to have
a-- a negative opinion about it.

1762
01:15:15,053 --> 01:15:17,222
But it has seemed
to have continued to get

1763
01:15:17,263 --> 01:15:19,599
more aggressive, more hardcore.

1764
01:15:19,641 --> 01:15:23,728
And often, the gangster
rap depicts women, you know,

1765
01:15:23,770 --> 01:15:26,898
that they--
they like to be violated.

1766
01:15:26,940 --> 01:15:28,816
They like,
you know, big penises.

1767
01:15:28,858 --> 01:15:31,861
They're always
sexually voracious.

1768
01:15:31,903 --> 01:15:33,905
They can't be satisfied.

1769
01:15:33,947 --> 01:15:37,033
Um, they wanna be
treated like this.

1770
01:15:37,951 --> 01:15:40,662
You know, sure,
a lot of those lyrics

1771
01:15:40,703 --> 01:15:43,748
about gang violence and murders

1772
01:15:43,790 --> 01:15:46,626
and even attacks on women
and everything else,

1773
01:15:46,668 --> 01:15:48,044
they're very explicit.

1774
01:15:48,086 --> 01:15:50,922
But it was all

1775
01:15:50,964 --> 01:15:53,007
an attempt to paint a picture,

1776
01:15:53,049 --> 01:15:55,176
for people outside,

1777
01:15:55,218 --> 01:15:58,972
"This is what we
have to go through every day."

1778
01:16:00,598 --> 01:16:04,185
All of these things
go into rage.

1779
01:16:04,227 --> 01:16:07,897
Now, like, look, does--
Do I think it's, you know--

1780
01:16:07,939 --> 01:16:09,857
[laughs] Do I think
it's a good thing for people

1781
01:16:09,899 --> 01:16:11,317
to be hearing this stuff?

1782
01:16:11,359 --> 01:16:14,237
No, but like, obviously,
there's a reason for it.

1783
01:16:14,279 --> 01:16:16,322
And again, I'm like,
"Why don't we look

1784
01:16:16,364 --> 01:16:18,741
at the underlying reason
for this rage, you know,

1785
01:16:18,783 --> 01:16:21,077
and stop talking
about the-- the piece of music?"

1786
01:16:21,119 --> 01:16:23,288
You know, and stop
glorifying it too, you know?

1787
01:16:23,329 --> 01:16:25,748
'Cause when you-- you try to--

1788
01:16:25,790 --> 01:16:27,292
You try
to take it away or censor it,

1789
01:16:27,333 --> 01:16:29,210
then people just want it more.

1790
01:16:29,252 --> 01:16:32,297
And you had,
you know, NWA and Ice-T

1791
01:16:32,338 --> 01:16:34,799
and, um, the Geto Boys

1792
01:16:34,841 --> 01:16:37,927
and a bunch of others
who were, uh, singing about--

1793
01:16:37,969 --> 01:16:39,804
Rapping about life
in the streets.

1794
01:16:39,846 --> 01:16:42,098
And that was pretty intense,
because life in the streets,

1795
01:16:42,140 --> 01:16:44,142
you know, is pretty intense.

1796
01:16:44,183 --> 01:16:45,601
Uh, especially, when it comes

1797
01:16:45,643 --> 01:16:47,854
to the relationship
with the police.

1798
01:16:47,895 --> 01:16:50,064
["Sound od da Police"
by KRS One playing]

1799
01:16:50,106 --> 01:16:52,859
♪ Woop-woop,
that's the sound of da beast ♪

1800
01:16:52,900 --> 01:16:54,235
♪ Woop-woop ♪

1801
01:16:54,277 --> 01:16:56,821
["Crooked Officer"
by Geto Boys playing]

1802
01:16:56,863 --> 01:16:59,782
♪ I wanna put your ass
in a coffin, sir ♪

1803
01:16:59,824 --> 01:17:02,076
["No Surrender"
by Bone Thugs-N-Harmony playing]

1804
01:17:02,118 --> 01:17:05,330
♪ Let me catch you slippin' ♪

1805
01:17:05,997 --> 01:17:09,167
[Alan] And, uh, that
created an awful lot of issues

1806
01:17:09,208 --> 01:17:10,793
for some people,

1807
01:17:10,835 --> 01:17:12,670
especially
the broadcast industry,

1808
01:17:12,712 --> 01:17:14,172
but also in record stores.

1809
01:17:14,213 --> 01:17:15,757
Uh, you know,
Ice-T, for example,

1810
01:17:15,798 --> 01:17:17,008
had his song
called "Cop Killer."

1811
01:17:17,050 --> 01:17:19,218
And that created
all kinds of issues.

1812
01:17:19,260 --> 01:17:21,721
Um, you know,
with-- with-- with, uh,

1813
01:17:21,763 --> 01:17:23,306
police departments
and others demanding

1814
01:17:23,348 --> 01:17:25,266
that the record
be withdrawn from sale,

1815
01:17:25,308 --> 01:17:26,893
which is a form of censorship.

1816
01:17:26,934 --> 01:17:29,854
[Ice-T] For every one
of those fucking police,

1817
01:17:29,896 --> 01:17:33,274
I'd like to take a pig
out here in this parking lot,

1818
01:17:33,316 --> 01:17:36,903
and shoot 'em in their
motherfucking face.

1819
01:17:36,944 --> 01:17:39,947
["Cop Killer"
by Body Count playing]

1820
01:17:41,324 --> 01:17:42,992
♪ I'm 'bout
to bust some shots off ♪

1821
01:17:43,034 --> 01:17:45,078
♪ I'm 'bout
to dust some cops off ♪

1822
01:17:45,453 --> 01:17:47,288
[gunshots popping]

1823
01:17:47,330 --> 01:17:49,123
♪ I'm a cop killer ♪

1824
01:17:49,165 --> 01:17:51,042
♪ I know your mama's grievin' ♪

1825
01:17:51,084 --> 01:17:52,126
♪ Fuck 'em! ♪

1826
01:17:52,168 --> 01:17:53,669
♪ Cop killer ♪

1827
01:17:53,711 --> 01:17:56,255
♪ But tonight we get even ♪

1828
01:17:58,966 --> 01:18:00,802
The Body Count album

1829
01:18:00,843 --> 01:18:03,679
had a number of calls

1830
01:18:03,721 --> 01:18:06,891
for people to kill the police.

1831
01:18:06,933 --> 01:18:10,061
Uh, the issue was
whether or not Time Warner...

1832
01:18:11,229 --> 01:18:14,357
should be,
uh, selling that album.

1833
01:18:15,942 --> 01:18:17,402
You know, "Cop Killer"
didn't lead to the death

1834
01:18:17,443 --> 01:18:19,362
of a single police officer,
I'm pretty sure,

1835
01:18:19,404 --> 01:18:23,699
any more than the Terminator
led to a-- a police station

1836
01:18:23,741 --> 01:18:25,243
full of cops getting murdered.

1837
01:18:25,284 --> 01:18:27,161
It's the same thing.

1838
01:18:27,203 --> 01:18:31,040
It's-- it's-- it's entertaining.
It's not all actual facts.

1839
01:18:31,082 --> 01:18:33,126
I don't fucking have
two Bentleys,

1840
01:18:33,167 --> 01:18:35,878
but in my rap, I might say,
I have two Bentleys.

1841
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:37,839
I don't have fucking
$15 million,

1842
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:40,716
but in this fucking rap,
I got $15 million.

1843
01:18:40,758 --> 01:18:42,260
You understand what I'm saying?

1844
01:18:42,301 --> 01:18:44,011
It's like you gotta understand,
you gotta know,

1845
01:18:44,053 --> 01:18:45,471
and be able to decipher out
what's real and fake.

1846
01:18:45,513 --> 01:18:47,849
And if you can't,
stay the fuck away from it.

1847
01:18:47,890 --> 01:18:50,226
Leave it alone, like,
let us be, let us be great.

1848
01:18:50,977 --> 01:18:52,854
If you are
a distributor of music,

1849
01:18:52,895 --> 01:18:54,522
you have a certain
amount of liability.

1850
01:18:54,564 --> 01:18:56,732
You are the target,
because you are the one

1851
01:18:56,774 --> 01:19:00,319
that is the conduit of--
of the music to the consumer.

1852
01:19:00,361 --> 01:19:02,947
So, you have a responsibility

1853
01:19:02,989 --> 01:19:04,490
to your
shareholders and ownership

1854
01:19:04,532 --> 01:19:07,452
to make sure
that you're not doing anything

1855
01:19:07,493 --> 01:19:09,203
that is against the law.

1856
01:19:09,245 --> 01:19:11,372
The-- the fact that that alone,

1857
01:19:11,414 --> 01:19:14,125
like, a-- a song,

1858
01:19:14,167 --> 01:19:18,254
a set of lyrics provokes
so much backlash that it gets...

1859
01:19:20,006 --> 01:19:21,340
recalled.

1860
01:19:22,425 --> 01:19:24,218
That, you know--
That really says something

1861
01:19:24,260 --> 01:19:26,179
about America and race.

1862
01:19:27,472 --> 01:19:30,850
And we address the Time Warner
shareholders meeting

1863
01:19:30,892 --> 01:19:34,270
and, uh, I spoke along
with Charlton Heston,

1864
01:19:34,312 --> 01:19:36,981
which was
an interesting experience.

1865
01:19:37,023 --> 01:19:40,151
"Die, die, die, pig, die.

1866
01:19:40,193 --> 01:19:43,488
Police, I know your family's
grieving, [bleep] them."

1867
01:19:43,529 --> 01:19:45,406
Catchy little number, isn't it?

1868
01:19:45,448 --> 01:19:49,243
That effort
wound up being successful

1869
01:19:49,285 --> 01:19:50,411
in that Time Warner,

1870
01:19:50,453 --> 01:19:52,872
uh, pulled the album Body Count,

1871
01:19:52,914 --> 01:19:56,918
uh, from store shelves worldwide
because of the clear advocacy

1872
01:19:56,959 --> 01:19:58,377
that police officers,

1873
01:19:58,419 --> 01:20:00,963
whether Black or white,
be killed.

1874
01:20:02,507 --> 01:20:05,092
[reporter] Sales of the album
Body Count surged

1875
01:20:05,134 --> 01:20:07,929
following Tuesday's announcement
by artist Ice-T.

1876
01:20:07,970 --> 01:20:10,932
He is dropping the controversial
track "Cop Killer"

1877
01:20:10,973 --> 01:20:12,934
from all new copies
of his record.

1878
01:20:12,975 --> 01:20:15,144
[Ice-T] I'm gonna pull the song
off the record.

1879
01:20:15,895 --> 01:20:18,314
What I'm saying is, song's off
the record, shut up.

1880
01:20:18,981 --> 01:20:20,441
All right? That's what
I'm saying.

1881
01:20:20,483 --> 01:20:22,109
I'm not apologizing to 'em.

1882
01:20:22,151 --> 01:20:24,111
[reporter] But one
senior record industry executive

1883
01:20:24,153 --> 01:20:27,156
told the Associated Press
that Ice-T's decision

1884
01:20:27,198 --> 01:20:28,533
sets a dangerous precedent,

1885
01:20:28,574 --> 01:20:30,576
which will
encourage future protests

1886
01:20:30,618 --> 01:20:32,954
to limit free speech.

1887
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:36,123
So, this is always--
My question is, you know,

1888
01:20:36,165 --> 01:20:37,875
okay, you wanna
get rid of something?

1889
01:20:37,917 --> 01:20:39,293
Well, what is it?

1890
01:20:39,335 --> 01:20:41,337
And a lot of people
are just knee-jerking,

1891
01:20:41,379 --> 01:20:43,422
and they're just like,
"Oh, well, that's the bad thing.

1892
01:20:43,464 --> 01:20:45,007
That's the bugaboo."

1893
01:20:45,508 --> 01:20:47,260
You know,
you can't advocate banning

1894
01:20:47,301 --> 01:20:49,470
something that you
don't even know what it is.

1895
01:20:49,512 --> 01:20:51,931
You know, 'cause then--
then-- then I start going,

1896
01:20:51,973 --> 01:20:53,558
"Well, you're not
actually talking about--

1897
01:20:53,599 --> 01:20:56,936
We're not talking about
music anymore then, you know."

1898
01:20:58,271 --> 01:21:00,856
[Kat] Cop Killer has
still never been re-released,

1899
01:21:00,898 --> 01:21:03,651
and the song is unavailable
on most streaming sites,

1900
01:21:03,693 --> 01:21:06,153
though Body Count
continued to perform it live.

1901
01:21:06,654 --> 01:21:08,406
Hip hop
and the police have often

1902
01:21:08,447 --> 01:21:10,324
had a tenuous relationship.

1903
01:21:10,366 --> 01:21:12,910
But gangster rap
and "Cop Killer"

1904
01:21:12,952 --> 01:21:14,912
pushed it
further than ever before.

1905
01:21:14,954 --> 01:21:18,165
Police began to look at rappers
and labels as criminal entities.

1906
01:21:18,207 --> 01:21:21,127
Leaked documents revealed
the FBI had open files beginning

1907
01:21:21,168 --> 01:21:23,879
in the early '90s
on the Wu Tang Clan,

1908
01:21:23,921 --> 01:21:25,923
Jay-Z and Roc-A-Fella Records,

1909
01:21:25,965 --> 01:21:27,925
Sean Combs and Bad Boy Records,

1910
01:21:27,967 --> 01:21:30,052
and numerous
other popular artists.

1911
01:21:31,137 --> 01:21:33,139
Furthering
the criminal pursuit of rappers,

1912
01:21:33,180 --> 01:21:37,268
in 2000 California
passed Penal Code 182.5,

1913
01:21:37,310 --> 01:21:39,270
a criminal
conspiracy law that states

1914
01:21:39,312 --> 01:21:41,480
that active gang members
can be charged with crimes

1915
01:21:41,522 --> 01:21:43,232
committed by other members,

1916
01:21:43,274 --> 01:21:45,109
even if they weren't
involved in the crime.

1917
01:21:46,235 --> 01:21:47,486
What we were seeing now

1918
01:21:47,528 --> 01:21:50,990
is some singers,

1919
01:21:51,032 --> 01:21:54,035
some rappers
who are accused of a crime,

1920
01:21:54,076 --> 01:21:57,246
are hauled in front of a judge,

1921
01:21:57,288 --> 01:22:01,250
and their lyrics
are held up as a...

1922
01:22:02,460 --> 01:22:04,670
uh, mirror or an example

1923
01:22:04,712 --> 01:22:07,089
of the character of the accused.

1924
01:22:07,423 --> 01:22:10,384
Can s-- Because
you write these lyrics,

1925
01:22:10,426 --> 01:22:12,178
can they be used against you

1926
01:22:12,219 --> 01:22:15,139
if you are, in fact,
charged with a crime?

1927
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,517
Uh, it's-- it's
a real slippery slope.

1928
01:22:18,559 --> 01:22:21,562
Um, June, yeah,
I believe it was June--

1929
01:22:21,604 --> 01:22:24,273
Juneteenth 2014.

1930
01:22:24,649 --> 01:22:26,275
I'm at home, sleep.

1931
01:22:26,317 --> 01:22:28,152
I woke up, like,
"Man," I just heard a gang,

1932
01:22:28,194 --> 01:22:30,404
like a-- a, like,
kinda like little voices.

1933
01:22:30,446 --> 01:22:32,698
I could hear-- [hissing]
Like, almost like whispering.

1934
01:22:32,740 --> 01:22:34,241
I jumped up
and I opened the door,

1935
01:22:34,283 --> 01:22:35,660
and as soon
as I opened the door,

1936
01:22:35,701 --> 01:22:38,245
it was AR-15
and just big guns in my face.

1937
01:22:38,287 --> 01:22:39,455
"Get down, get down,
get down, get down."

1938
01:22:39,497 --> 01:22:41,207
I'm like, "What's going on?"

1939
01:22:41,248 --> 01:22:43,417
Like, they got the whole
entire block is blocked off

1940
01:22:43,459 --> 01:22:44,710
with tanks, many tanks,

1941
01:22:44,752 --> 01:22:46,253
and on the side of the tanks,

1942
01:22:46,295 --> 01:22:49,131
it's dudes in black gear,
full riot gear.

1943
01:22:49,173 --> 01:22:51,050
In my mind, I'm like,
I-- I-- I asked my girlfriend,

1944
01:22:51,092 --> 01:22:52,968
I said, "Did you do something?"

1945
01:22:53,010 --> 01:22:55,429
I had to ask her because I knew
I hadn't done anything.

1946
01:22:55,471 --> 01:22:57,098
So, I'm like,
"Did you do something?"

1947
01:22:57,139 --> 01:22:58,391
Like, this is like some--

1948
01:22:58,432 --> 01:22:59,642
you're coming
to get some bank robbers

1949
01:22:59,684 --> 01:23:01,602
that just robbed three banks,

1950
01:23:01,644 --> 01:23:04,188
full shootout and everything,
you know what I mean?

1951
01:23:04,230 --> 01:23:07,274
So, I'm like, "It has nothing
to do with me, for sure."

1952
01:23:08,484 --> 01:23:10,027
Get downtown.

1953
01:23:10,069 --> 01:23:12,154
The detectives
walk up to the car

1954
01:23:12,196 --> 01:23:13,989
after, like,
three hours of me sitting

1955
01:23:14,031 --> 01:23:16,992
and say, uh, um,
"Do you want to talk to us?"

1956
01:23:17,034 --> 01:23:18,494
I said, "I have nothing
to talk to you about.

1957
01:23:18,536 --> 01:23:20,246
Like, I don't know
what you're talking about."

1958
01:23:20,287 --> 01:23:21,747
He was like, "Well,
if you don't want to talk to us,

1959
01:23:21,789 --> 01:23:23,624
we gonna take you to jail
right now for murder."

1960
01:23:23,666 --> 01:23:25,668
I was like, "I talk-- now
I know-- I-- I know I ain't--

1961
01:23:25,710 --> 01:23:27,461
I know I ain't killed nobody.

1962
01:23:27,503 --> 01:23:29,130
So, I'm like, "All right,
I'll talk to you, whatever."

1963
01:23:29,171 --> 01:23:30,756
So, we go upstairs.

1964
01:23:30,798 --> 01:23:34,468
First thing he says to me is,
"Look, Brandon, we know

1965
01:23:34,510 --> 01:23:37,096
that you don't have anything
to do with these murders

1966
01:23:37,138 --> 01:23:39,056
or anything to do
with these shootings,

1967
01:23:39,098 --> 01:23:41,183
but because of the stuff

1968
01:23:41,225 --> 01:23:43,769
that you talk
about in your music,

1969
01:23:43,811 --> 01:23:45,730
we can charge you
with these nine murders."

1970
01:23:45,771 --> 01:23:47,314
I start laughing.

1971
01:23:47,356 --> 01:23:49,734
I say, "Yeah, bro,
these nine shootings."

1972
01:23:49,775 --> 01:23:51,485
I'm like, "Yeah, right.

1973
01:23:51,527 --> 01:23:53,112
There's no way in the world
you could charge me

1974
01:23:53,154 --> 01:23:54,405
with some shootings
based off of something

1975
01:23:54,447 --> 01:23:56,157
that I was talking about
on my music."

1976
01:23:56,198 --> 01:23:58,159
I said, "Was I--" I said,
"I definitely wasn't talking

1977
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:01,537
about the shootings
that you guys have on paper.

1978
01:24:01,579 --> 01:24:03,330
Like, I'll be out
before you know it.

1979
01:24:03,372 --> 01:24:05,082
Like, I'll-- for sure
I'll get bailed out tomorrow."

1980
01:24:05,124 --> 01:24:07,334
He's like, "No, bro,
you have a million-dollar bill."

1981
01:24:07,376 --> 01:24:10,171
I was like, "There's no way.
I haven't done anything."

1982
01:24:10,212 --> 01:24:11,589
I mean, like--

1983
01:24:11,630 --> 01:24:13,340
like, I'm saying it,
and it sounds crazy.

1984
01:24:13,382 --> 01:24:16,051
It was even crazier sitting,
going through this shit.

1985
01:24:16,093 --> 01:24:18,095
You're like, "Like,
listen to yourself right now.

1986
01:24:18,137 --> 01:24:20,347
You are telling me I don't know
anything about this,

1987
01:24:20,389 --> 01:24:22,808
but you wanna charge me
with conspiracy on some shit

1988
01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:24,685
that you're telling me
I don't know--

1989
01:24:24,727 --> 01:24:26,437
you are telling me
I don't know about 'em,

1990
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:28,355
so how the hell you gonna
charge me with this shit?"

1991
01:24:28,397 --> 01:24:31,776
But they said, "Based off
of, uh, Penal Code 182.5,

1992
01:24:31,817 --> 01:24:33,569
hey, you could be
held liable, bro."

1993
01:24:35,321 --> 01:24:36,405
It's crazy.

1994
01:24:37,364 --> 01:24:39,241
Except I have became
a documented gang member

1995
01:24:39,283 --> 01:24:42,119
at, like,
the age of 12-- 11 or 12.

1996
01:24:42,161 --> 01:24:43,454
My man, my-- my-- my man--

1997
01:24:43,496 --> 01:24:44,705
um, you know,
that's the-- you know,

1998
01:24:44,747 --> 01:24:46,791
the, uh, guy that's filming,

1999
01:24:46,832 --> 01:24:49,543
um, has on green pants
right now.

2000
01:24:49,585 --> 01:24:53,380
So, him being with me,
we-- we're in my neighborhood

2001
01:24:53,422 --> 01:24:55,299
in Lincoln Park,
Southeast San Diego.

2002
01:24:55,341 --> 01:24:56,634
We're walking to the store.

2003
01:24:56,675 --> 01:24:58,677
He could be--
he could be, you know,

2004
01:24:58,719 --> 01:25:00,721
uh, labeled a gang member
because of the color pants--

2005
01:25:00,763 --> 01:25:03,098
color pants he has on,
and he's with me.

2006
01:25:03,432 --> 01:25:04,850
An associate they could tie you

2007
01:25:04,892 --> 01:25:06,560
basically to the same stuff
that they're--

2008
01:25:06,602 --> 01:25:07,895
or-- or charge you

2009
01:25:07,937 --> 01:25:10,147
like they're charging me
as a gang member

2010
01:25:10,189 --> 01:25:12,149
with the same stuff,
you know what I mean?

2011
01:25:12,191 --> 01:25:14,109
Just based off
of him walking with me,

2012
01:25:14,151 --> 01:25:16,111
talking to me and wearing
the color that he's wearing.

2013
01:25:17,363 --> 01:25:19,573
You know,
coming to the Black community,

2014
01:25:19,615 --> 01:25:21,575
charge you for--
basically charge you

2015
01:25:21,617 --> 01:25:23,327
with being who you are.

2016
01:25:23,369 --> 01:25:25,788
I can't help that.
This is what I seen every day.

2017
01:25:25,830 --> 01:25:27,748
If I grew up in La Jolla,

2018
01:25:27,790 --> 01:25:30,876
maybe I might be rapping
about doctors and lawyers.

2019
01:25:30,918 --> 01:25:32,795
They basically told me
I can go home, man.

2020
01:25:32,837 --> 01:25:35,464
Like, "You can go home
right now today with probation.

2021
01:25:35,506 --> 01:25:37,299
Just-- just sign probation.

2022
01:25:37,341 --> 01:25:39,718
You can go home now after being
in jail for eight months,

2023
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:42,805
facing life in prison,
still facing life in prison."

2024
01:25:43,722 --> 01:25:47,268
I-- I can't do it
because my sons like to rap.

2025
01:25:47,726 --> 01:25:51,313
So, if I say,
"Okay, I'll take this time,

2026
01:25:51,355 --> 01:25:53,274
or I'll take this probation,

2027
01:25:53,315 --> 01:25:55,359
then you gonna do
the same thing to my son.

2028
01:25:55,818 --> 01:25:57,653
And I just
couldn't let that happen.

2029
01:25:57,695 --> 01:25:59,864
So, I said, "You know what?
Nah, man, I'm not taking it.

2030
01:25:59,905 --> 01:26:01,532
I'm gonna go to the box

2031
01:26:01,574 --> 01:26:03,158
because I know
I haven't done anything wrong.

2032
01:26:03,534 --> 01:26:04,785
I know I haven't
done anything wrong,

2033
01:26:04,827 --> 01:26:06,745
so come on, let's go," you know?

2034
01:26:08,831 --> 01:26:10,457
[Kat] Tiny Doo
and his co-defendant

2035
01:26:10,499 --> 01:26:12,167
were released in 2015.

2036
01:26:13,502 --> 01:26:15,629
Upon the release,
the two men successfully sued

2037
01:26:15,671 --> 01:26:18,507
the state of California
for $1.5 million.

2038
01:26:19,717 --> 01:26:23,470
But Penal Code 182.5
is still being used today.

2039
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:26,473
And in May of 2022,

2040
01:26:26,515 --> 01:26:28,809
a 56-count indictment
in the state of Georgia

2041
01:26:28,851 --> 01:26:31,478
named rappers Young Thug,

2042
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,188
Gunna and more
than two dozen other artists

2043
01:26:33,230 --> 01:26:34,857
from their label, YSL,

2044
01:26:34,899 --> 01:26:37,610
as alleged conspirators
in a criminal organization.

2045
01:26:38,694 --> 01:26:40,696
Many of the charges
quote lyrics from the artist

2046
01:26:40,738 --> 01:26:42,865
as evidence
of criminal conspiracy.

2047
01:26:43,532 --> 01:26:45,326
As of this production,

2048
01:26:45,367 --> 01:26:47,328
many of the artists
are still awaiting trial.

2049
01:26:47,369 --> 01:26:48,871
But a new bill

2050
01:26:48,913 --> 01:26:50,664
called the Restoring
Artistic Protection Act,

2051
01:26:50,706 --> 01:26:52,416
or RAP Act,

2052
01:26:52,458 --> 01:26:54,335
has been recently
introduced to Congress

2053
01:26:54,376 --> 01:26:56,670
that seeks to limit
the use of lyrics as evidence,

2054
01:26:56,712 --> 01:26:59,757
which could vastly
affect this in future trials.

2055
01:27:01,425 --> 01:27:04,345
With all the mechanisms
in place to label, rate,

2056
01:27:04,386 --> 01:27:06,347
silence or deplatform music

2057
01:27:06,388 --> 01:27:08,015
deemed defensive or dangerous,

2058
01:27:08,057 --> 01:27:09,934
it raises the question,

2059
01:27:09,975 --> 01:27:12,353
to what extent
are people actually influenced

2060
01:27:12,394 --> 01:27:13,938
by darker suggestive music?

2061
01:27:15,606 --> 01:27:19,735
I think art as a concept
or entertainment is neutral,

2062
01:27:19,777 --> 01:27:21,612
depends on what you do with it.

2063
01:27:21,987 --> 01:27:23,906
Uh, but I believe
stuff like that

2064
01:27:23,948 --> 01:27:26,533
does degrade our society

2065
01:27:26,575 --> 01:27:28,410
because culture
has an effect on people.

2066
01:27:28,452 --> 01:27:32,289
If Beethoven's works
can uplift the human spirit,

2067
01:27:32,331 --> 01:27:33,415
then the other...

2068
01:27:34,458 --> 01:27:36,877
musical art
can degrade the spirit.

2069
01:27:37,836 --> 01:27:40,339
The idea that music
can make you do things

2070
01:27:40,381 --> 01:27:43,926
that you are not, uh,
otherwise inclined to do,

2071
01:27:43,968 --> 01:27:46,553
is a very convenient idea

2072
01:27:46,595 --> 01:27:49,890
and is absent
of any actual evidence.

2073
01:27:49,932 --> 01:27:54,353
Despite being researched
literally thousands of times,

2074
01:27:54,395 --> 01:27:58,857
no one has ever given
an iota of proof

2075
01:27:58,899 --> 01:28:02,611
behind the idea
that music makes you do things

2076
01:28:02,653 --> 01:28:04,655
that you weren't
otherwise inclined to do.

2077
01:28:05,948 --> 01:28:09,618
You know, this is the--
the timeless question.

2078
01:28:11,453 --> 01:28:13,372
Does violent

2079
01:28:13,414 --> 01:28:16,542
imagery music words

2080
01:28:16,583 --> 01:28:18,627
lead to violent actions?

2081
01:28:18,669 --> 01:28:20,087
Yes, there is the case,

2082
01:28:20,129 --> 01:28:22,756
there is the case
of the tormented teenager

2083
01:28:22,798 --> 01:28:24,091
who do-- who goes out

2084
01:28:24,133 --> 01:28:25,634
and shoots somebody
or shoots himself

2085
01:28:25,676 --> 01:28:28,595
or takes his own life
or her own life

2086
01:28:28,637 --> 01:28:30,472
because of something they heard.

2087
01:28:30,514 --> 01:28:31,890
But they could have
also read a book.

2088
01:28:32,808 --> 01:28:34,101
They could have read
Alice in Wonderland

2089
01:28:34,143 --> 01:28:36,061
and found that somehow.

2090
01:28:36,103 --> 01:28:39,940
Uh, anybody that's going
to commit a violent act,

2091
01:28:39,982 --> 01:28:41,567
uh, is gonna do that

2092
01:28:41,608 --> 01:28:43,902
regardless if they're listening
to a song

2093
01:28:43,944 --> 01:28:45,320
that's promoting that or not.

2094
01:28:45,821 --> 01:28:48,991
Does it inspire that idea

2095
01:28:49,033 --> 01:28:51,493
with somebody, like a listener?

2096
01:28:51,910 --> 01:28:52,995
Possibly.

2097
01:28:54,079 --> 01:28:55,956
So yeah, music does make
people feel a certain way.

2098
01:28:55,998 --> 01:28:57,791
But at the end of the day,
I don't--

2099
01:28:57,833 --> 01:28:59,501
I'm not gonna sit here and say,

2100
01:28:59,543 --> 01:29:01,879
"It's the music that
makes you do what you wanna do."

2101
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,797
A feeling is something different

2102
01:29:03,839 --> 01:29:05,716
from me going out
committing a crime.

2103
01:29:06,091 --> 01:29:08,635
Now, I'm not gonna say
the song made me do it.

2104
01:29:08,677 --> 01:29:10,888
Nah, nigga,
you wanted to do that shit

2105
01:29:10,929 --> 01:29:12,806
because you wanted
to do that shit.

2106
01:29:12,848 --> 01:29:14,099
Period.

2107
01:29:14,141 --> 01:29:15,768
Uh, you know,
people are different

2108
01:29:15,809 --> 01:29:17,352
and they create music
for different reasons,

2109
01:29:17,394 --> 01:29:18,479
but I think
they should always be aware

2110
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:19,980
of what they're saying with it.

2111
01:29:20,022 --> 01:29:22,357
You know, I don't know
that people always are.

2112
01:29:22,816 --> 01:29:24,359
'Cause, you know,
it's like, great--

2113
01:29:24,401 --> 01:29:25,944
with great power
comes great responsibility.

2114
01:29:25,986 --> 01:29:27,654
We do have a lot of power.

2115
01:29:27,696 --> 01:29:29,073
You know, as entertainers,

2116
01:29:29,114 --> 01:29:31,658
like, we can touch everybody
in that audience.

2117
01:29:31,700 --> 01:29:33,660
You know, everybody
who's listening to the radio.

2118
01:29:33,702 --> 01:29:35,913
Uh, the band
is responsible for transmission.

2119
01:29:36,872 --> 01:29:38,373
Can't control the reception.

2120
01:29:39,458 --> 01:29:41,126
It-- I think I had this idea

2121
01:29:41,168 --> 01:29:43,837
that it was a-- of an effective
form of communication.

2122
01:29:43,879 --> 01:29:45,672
It is not
an effective form of co--

2123
01:29:45,714 --> 01:29:47,716
it is a powerful form
of communication,

2124
01:29:47,758 --> 01:29:49,593
but it's not an effective one.

2125
01:29:49,635 --> 01:29:51,512
And do I think
I have responsibility?

2126
01:29:51,553 --> 01:29:53,055
I do. Yeah, I do.

2127
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,557
But not everyone does.

2128
01:29:55,599 --> 01:29:56,767
And I'm not saying
everyone should.

2129
01:29:56,809 --> 01:29:58,102
I'm just saying that I do.

2130
01:29:59,061 --> 01:30:03,482
And I think if-- if people
are gonna send a message,

2131
01:30:03,524 --> 01:30:06,527
you know, they need to be
really clear on what that is.

2132
01:30:06,568 --> 01:30:08,821
Of course, once it's made,
people will react to it

2133
01:30:08,862 --> 01:30:10,155
as-- as they react to it.

2134
01:30:10,197 --> 01:30:11,698
And they may--
they may get a message

2135
01:30:11,740 --> 01:30:13,700
that the people
didn't intend at all.

2136
01:30:13,742 --> 01:30:16,120
But I think it--
you can at least start with...

2137
01:30:17,079 --> 01:30:18,997
knowing
what you're trying to say.

2138
01:30:19,039 --> 01:30:20,791
You know,
for better or for worse.

2139
01:30:22,209 --> 01:30:25,587
The media likes to focus in

2140
01:30:25,629 --> 01:30:27,881
if they can find
a musical connection

2141
01:30:27,923 --> 01:30:29,091
that works for them.

2142
01:30:30,259 --> 01:30:33,095
We have no idea what music
Jeffrey Dahmer listened to.

2143
01:30:34,179 --> 01:30:35,973
I hear it was Barry Manilow,

2144
01:30:36,014 --> 01:30:38,725
and I really think Barry Manilow
should have been banned,

2145
01:30:38,767 --> 01:30:40,519
and his records burned

2146
01:30:40,561 --> 01:30:41,854
because of what Dahmer did.

2147
01:30:41,895 --> 01:30:43,647
No, I don't know
who Dahmer listened to.

2148
01:30:43,689 --> 01:30:45,607
The point is,
we don't hear about it

2149
01:30:45,649 --> 01:30:49,903
unless it's some, you know,
the evil rock and roll.

2150
01:30:49,945 --> 01:30:52,990
When it's evil rock and roll,
or now, you know, hip hop

2151
01:30:53,031 --> 01:30:54,449
or something like that,

2152
01:30:54,491 --> 01:30:56,910
they-- they're--
the media is so fast

2153
01:30:56,952 --> 01:31:00,873
to focus in that-- on that
as a reason that it happened.

2154
01:31:01,957 --> 01:31:04,209
[TV show theme song playing]

2155
01:31:06,795 --> 01:31:08,630
[reporter] Authorities
in Littleton, Colorado

2156
01:31:08,672 --> 01:31:10,799
are securing the scene
of a deadly school shooting

2157
01:31:10,841 --> 01:31:13,552
so they can make
a final body count

2158
01:31:13,594 --> 01:31:15,679
as the community
and the nation struggles

2159
01:31:15,721 --> 01:31:17,472
to come to grips
with the carnage.

2160
01:31:18,515 --> 01:31:21,101
[Nuzum] Columbine is--
is a really interesting

2161
01:31:21,143 --> 01:31:23,937
and unfortunate chapter in...

2162
01:31:24,938 --> 01:31:27,900
how you look at music
and music expression

2163
01:31:27,941 --> 01:31:29,943
and the attempts
of people to control that.

2164
01:31:29,985 --> 01:31:33,614
You see
that following the shooting,

2165
01:31:33,655 --> 01:31:35,949
you know,
as-- as is often the case,

2166
01:31:35,991 --> 01:31:37,618
people start acting like,
"What was the motivation?

2167
01:31:37,659 --> 01:31:38,952
What inspired this?"

2168
01:31:39,620 --> 01:31:43,123
And these kids,
um, all wore trench coats

2169
01:31:43,165 --> 01:31:45,667
and wore dark clothing.

2170
01:31:46,084 --> 01:31:47,544
And so,

2171
01:31:47,586 --> 01:31:51,089
it was immediately assumed

2172
01:31:51,131 --> 01:31:53,967
that they had been inspired
by popular culture

2173
01:31:54,009 --> 01:31:55,928
to dress this way,
to act this way.

2174
01:31:56,678 --> 01:31:59,306
You know, the guys
that-- that did that,

2175
01:31:59,348 --> 01:32:01,767
um, sort of fit that profile.

2176
01:32:01,808 --> 01:32:03,727
You know, when something like
that happens, it's so tragic

2177
01:32:03,769 --> 01:32:05,979
and that you can't wrap
your head around it.

2178
01:32:06,021 --> 01:32:09,233
But people want an answer
and they want somebody to blame.

2179
01:32:09,274 --> 01:32:10,943
So, they just-- I think--
think that's--

2180
01:32:10,984 --> 01:32:12,653
unfortunately that's
what they did,

2181
01:32:12,694 --> 01:32:15,530
is they just picked heavy metal
or Marilyn Manson

2182
01:32:15,572 --> 01:32:17,157
and said, "This is the problem.

2183
01:32:17,199 --> 01:32:19,159
And, you know,
we've said it before.

2184
01:32:19,201 --> 01:32:21,870
And-- and here's the proof."

2185
01:32:21,912 --> 01:32:23,664
The famous mass murder

2186
01:32:23,705 --> 01:32:25,916
at the high school there
in-- in Colorado,

2187
01:32:25,958 --> 01:32:28,001
they were deeply

2188
01:32:28,043 --> 01:32:31,630
into a lot of,
uh, dark nihilistic music.

2189
01:32:32,047 --> 01:32:35,968
And to suggest that
that did not provide a-- a mood,

2190
01:32:36,009 --> 01:32:37,970
uh, in which the seeds

2191
01:32:38,011 --> 01:32:41,974
of whatever dark seeds
was growing inside of them,

2192
01:32:42,015 --> 01:32:43,684
uh, is naive.

2193
01:32:43,725 --> 01:32:45,686
And someone decided...

2194
01:32:46,645 --> 01:32:48,897
that these two
were fans of Marilyn Manson.

2195
01:32:49,940 --> 01:32:54,027
And there were calls to action

2196
01:32:54,069 --> 01:32:56,029
from the local level
to the national level,

2197
01:32:56,071 --> 01:32:57,739
internationally

2198
01:32:57,781 --> 01:33:01,034
that Marilyn Manson
should be punished,

2199
01:33:01,076 --> 01:33:03,704
should he be culpable
in this crime.

2200
01:33:05,414 --> 01:33:07,708
And it was later established

2201
01:33:07,749 --> 01:33:11,128
that even after he had
a number of concerts canceled,

2202
01:33:11,169 --> 01:33:15,048
had to-- had to defend himself,

2203
01:33:15,090 --> 01:33:17,676
that the two young men

2204
01:33:17,718 --> 01:33:20,137
who were responsible
for the Columbine shootings

2205
01:33:20,178 --> 01:33:22,014
actually thought
he was a goofball

2206
01:33:22,055 --> 01:33:24,766
and didn't really think
very much of him at all.

2207
01:33:25,142 --> 01:33:26,643
In that moment,

2208
01:33:26,685 --> 01:33:28,687
it was so horrific
what they had done

2209
01:33:28,729 --> 01:33:30,272
that it was, so-- it--

2210
01:33:30,314 --> 01:33:33,650
I think it makes
people feel calm and safe

2211
01:33:33,692 --> 01:33:35,819
if they can point to something

2212
01:33:35,861 --> 01:33:37,988
and say, "Okay,
that's what it-- it is.

2213
01:33:38,030 --> 01:33:39,656
We just need
to get rid of that."

2214
01:33:40,073 --> 01:33:43,160
And Marilyn Manson
looked terrifying.

2215
01:33:43,201 --> 01:33:45,329
And so, I think
it was an easy scapegoat.

2216
01:33:45,370 --> 01:33:50,042
And if we can blame it
on music and video games,

2217
01:33:50,083 --> 01:33:52,252
then we don't have
to take actual responsibility

2218
01:33:52,294 --> 01:33:54,421
for our culture of violence

2219
01:33:54,463 --> 01:33:59,259
or the-- you know, the lack
of mental health support

2220
01:33:59,301 --> 01:34:01,970
and how easy it is to get a gun.

2221
01:34:02,012 --> 01:34:03,638
[chuckles]

2222
01:34:05,766 --> 01:34:07,392
[Kat]
The internet and social media

2223
01:34:07,434 --> 01:34:09,353
have changed the landscape
of the music industry

2224
01:34:09,394 --> 01:34:11,938
and given rise to the importance
of public opinion.

2225
01:34:13,231 --> 01:34:16,693
And more than the law,
the church or the PMRC,

2226
01:34:16,735 --> 01:34:18,987
public opinion
always wield the most power.

2227
01:34:20,072 --> 01:34:21,865
And this has been happening

2228
01:34:21,907 --> 01:34:23,075
long before we have
the term "cancel culture."

2229
01:34:25,160 --> 01:34:26,745
[reporter] Some teenagers
have said--

2230
01:34:26,787 --> 01:34:28,663
uh, have repeated
your statements that,

2231
01:34:28,705 --> 01:34:30,957
"The Beatles, I like the Beatles
more than Jesus Christ."

2232
01:34:30,999 --> 01:34:32,751
What do you think about that?

2233
01:34:32,793 --> 01:34:34,920
Well, originally, I was--
I was pointing out that fact,

2234
01:34:34,961 --> 01:34:36,463
in reference to England,

2235
01:34:36,505 --> 01:34:39,800
that we meant more to kids
than Jesus did,

2236
01:34:39,841 --> 01:34:41,760
all religion at that time.

2237
01:34:41,802 --> 01:34:43,178
I wasn't knocking it
or putting it down,

2238
01:34:43,220 --> 01:34:45,430
I was just saying it as a fact.

2239
01:34:50,352 --> 01:34:52,437
It doesn't matter about
people not liking our records

2240
01:34:52,479 --> 01:34:55,816
or not liking
the way we look or what we say,

2241
01:34:55,857 --> 01:34:57,734
you know, they're entitled
to not like us,

2242
01:34:57,776 --> 01:35:00,112
and we're entitled not to have
anything to do with them

2243
01:35:00,153 --> 01:35:02,322
if we don't want to
or not to regard them.

2244
01:35:03,031 --> 01:35:04,408
This is Doug Layton
and Tommy Charles.

2245
01:35:04,449 --> 01:35:06,159
We're reminding you

2246
01:35:06,201 --> 01:35:08,453
that our fantastic Beatle
boycott is still in effect.

2247
01:35:08,495 --> 01:35:10,956
We have not forgotten
what the Beatles said.

2248
01:35:12,541 --> 01:35:14,209
[Kat] As artists increasingly

2249
01:35:14,251 --> 01:35:16,002
put their personal lives
in the public eye...

2250
01:35:17,462 --> 01:35:19,131
their fans
are more often confronted

2251
01:35:19,172 --> 01:35:20,924
with the separation of art...

2252
01:35:22,050 --> 01:35:23,218
and artist.

2253
01:35:25,429 --> 01:35:27,848
There's the music
and then there's the person.

2254
01:35:27,889 --> 01:35:29,224
Can you separate the two?

2255
01:35:29,266 --> 01:35:31,393
I mean,
Michael Jackson, for example,

2256
01:35:31,435 --> 01:35:33,311
uh, you know, unproven,

2257
01:35:33,353 --> 01:35:36,189
but, you know, highly suspected
of being a child molester,

2258
01:35:36,231 --> 01:35:37,774
you know, but at the same time,

2259
01:35:37,816 --> 01:35:39,359
one of the greatest artists
of all time.

2260
01:35:39,943 --> 01:35:42,737
So, what do you do
with his music?

2261
01:35:43,238 --> 01:35:46,783
A lot of censorship has come
in the form of public opinion.

2262
01:35:53,498 --> 01:35:56,001
[audience cheering]

2263
01:35:56,543 --> 01:35:58,336
[Bush] They can say
what they wanna say,

2264
01:35:58,378 --> 01:36:00,881
and just because they shouldn't
have their feelings hurt,

2265
01:36:00,922 --> 01:36:02,340
just because some people
don't wanna buy their records

2266
01:36:02,382 --> 01:36:04,217
when they speak out.

2267
01:36:04,259 --> 01:36:06,428
I mean, it-- it's, you know,
freedom is a two-way street.

2268
01:36:09,181 --> 01:36:12,851
And now that looks completely
different in the 21st century

2269
01:36:12,893 --> 01:36:15,979
because of the internet,
because of social media,

2270
01:36:16,021 --> 01:36:19,232
um, that it is very easy

2271
01:36:19,274 --> 01:36:23,069
to get people
on board for something,

2272
01:36:23,111 --> 01:36:25,363
like something, share something

2273
01:36:25,405 --> 01:36:28,783
without them really fully
thinking about it critically.

2274
01:36:29,284 --> 01:36:31,077
I think it's easier from afar

2275
01:36:31,119 --> 01:36:33,330
when you're sitting
on your phone at home

2276
01:36:33,371 --> 01:36:36,082
to tell someone
they're canceled,

2277
01:36:36,124 --> 01:36:37,959
to tell someone
that what they did is wrong

2278
01:36:38,001 --> 01:36:40,879
and they don't deserve
to do their thing anymore,

2279
01:36:40,921 --> 01:36:42,255
or just be.

2280
01:36:42,297 --> 01:36:44,049
I think when you're
in front of that person,

2281
01:36:44,090 --> 01:36:45,467
that's different.

2282
01:36:45,509 --> 01:36:47,260
And that mediation,
that online mediation

2283
01:36:47,302 --> 01:36:50,388
has made us, you know,
a-- just a little more judgy.

2284
01:36:50,430 --> 01:36:53,850
And, you know,
as-- as a feminist myself,

2285
01:36:53,892 --> 01:36:57,270
I absolutely advocate
for conversation,

2286
01:36:57,312 --> 01:36:59,189
for allowing people
to create change.

2287
01:36:59,231 --> 01:37:01,149
Because if all we do
is cancel them,

2288
01:37:01,191 --> 01:37:03,193
we're not actually
creating change.

2289
01:37:03,235 --> 01:37:05,946
We're just telling them
to have the same feelings,

2290
01:37:05,987 --> 01:37:08,156
to do the same thing,
but be quiet about it.

2291
01:37:08,490 --> 01:37:10,325
And to cultivate change,

2292
01:37:10,367 --> 01:37:14,996
you need to have
nuanced critical conversations

2293
01:37:15,038 --> 01:37:18,875
that is beyond
the like button on Facebook.

2294
01:37:20,293 --> 01:37:23,463
It's definitely
a different landscape now, um...

2295
01:37:25,090 --> 01:37:27,342
because everybody's able
to voice an opinion

2296
01:37:27,384 --> 01:37:31,388
and-- and-- and put
their-- their, uh, opinion

2297
01:37:31,429 --> 01:37:35,016
on what is and is not acceptable
in a-- in a public way.

2298
01:37:36,017 --> 01:37:37,936
Uh, it's a dangerous time
to be an artist,

2299
01:37:37,978 --> 01:37:39,521
I think, in that regard.

2300
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:43,525
Yeah, if you-- when you--
when you apply censorship

2301
01:37:43,567 --> 01:37:45,610
to any art form,

2302
01:37:45,652 --> 01:37:48,613
specifically music or lyrics,

2303
01:37:48,655 --> 01:37:50,865
it's like-- it's like, uh...

2304
01:37:52,117 --> 01:37:53,493
trying to write with a--

2305
01:37:53,535 --> 01:37:56,037
you know, a gag in your mouth.

2306
01:37:56,538 --> 01:38:00,458
Uh, free speech
is-- is-- is utterly,

2307
01:38:00,500 --> 01:38:03,336
absolutely, completely important

2308
01:38:03,378 --> 01:38:05,213
to any art form.

2309
01:38:05,589 --> 01:38:07,465
During history,

2310
01:38:07,507 --> 01:38:09,467
people that went extreme

2311
01:38:09,509 --> 01:38:11,511
changed the world, okay?

2312
01:38:11,553 --> 01:38:13,513
Not the people
that go-- go with the flow.

2313
01:38:13,555 --> 01:38:15,348
If you go with the flow,
just live there.

2314
01:38:15,390 --> 01:38:18,310
You know, we only come once here

2315
01:38:18,351 --> 01:38:20,020
in this life, in this planet.

2316
01:38:20,061 --> 01:38:22,355
So, we have to live--
we have to move forward

2317
01:38:22,397 --> 01:38:23,648
for the next generation.

2318
01:38:24,941 --> 01:38:27,360
You can't worry about, um...

2319
01:38:28,695 --> 01:38:31,239
turning anybody off
when you're making the art.

2320
01:38:31,573 --> 01:38:33,116
The business of music

2321
01:38:33,158 --> 01:38:35,535
and-- and the creation
of music and art,

2322
01:38:35,577 --> 01:38:36,995
it's two different worlds.

2323
01:38:37,662 --> 01:38:40,373
If we fight for the right
of free expression,

2324
01:38:40,415 --> 01:38:42,500
we fight
for the opponent's right

2325
01:38:42,542 --> 01:38:43,627
every bit as much as ours.

2326
01:38:43,668 --> 01:38:45,086
And we have to.

2327
01:38:45,128 --> 01:38:46,463
And it means nothing
if we don't.

2328
01:38:46,504 --> 01:38:48,590
You can't talk
about freedom of speech

2329
01:38:48,632 --> 01:38:50,925
if really all you want
is freedom of your speech.

2330
01:38:51,468 --> 01:38:53,053
It's all or nothing.

2331
01:38:53,094 --> 01:38:55,180
You can't--
you can't, like, draw a line.

2332
01:38:55,221 --> 01:38:56,556
You could--
you decide for yourself

2333
01:38:56,598 --> 01:38:58,350
who you're gonna listen to,

2334
01:38:58,391 --> 01:39:00,352
but you can't say they don't
have a right to be there.

2335
01:39:00,727 --> 01:39:02,562
I mean, that--
I-- I feel like that's part

2336
01:39:02,604 --> 01:39:04,230
of, uh, the music--

2337
01:39:04,272 --> 01:39:07,150
the musicians
and artists' mission statement,

2338
01:39:07,192 --> 01:39:10,945
because you have to be able
to, uh, have that freedom.

2339
01:39:10,987 --> 01:39:13,406
If you can't,
then you can't explore

2340
01:39:13,448 --> 01:39:15,575
all the-- the depth of humanity.

2341
01:39:15,617 --> 01:39:17,077
You just can't.

2342
01:39:17,118 --> 01:39:19,287
You can't expect
music to be different

2343
01:39:19,329 --> 01:39:21,581
from what else
is happening in society,

2344
01:39:21,623 --> 01:39:24,709
whether it's war,
whether it's drugs,

2345
01:39:24,751 --> 01:39:26,586
whether it's youth culture.

2346
01:39:26,628 --> 01:39:28,505
What-- whatever else
is happening,

2347
01:39:28,546 --> 01:39:30,632
the music's gonna reflect that

2348
01:39:30,674 --> 01:39:34,177
by-- by the mere nature
of what music is.

2349
01:39:34,219 --> 01:39:36,262
You know, which is why
we should be really careful

2350
01:39:36,304 --> 01:39:38,556
of, you know,
what that message could be.

2351
01:39:38,598 --> 01:39:42,602
We-- I think we should
just be really, um, intentional

2352
01:39:42,644 --> 01:39:44,229
about what
we're putting out there.

2353
01:39:44,270 --> 01:39:45,689
I don't think
we're always intentional...

2354
01:39:46,815 --> 01:39:48,108
as musicians.

2355
01:39:50,068 --> 01:39:52,404
I am the things I am

2356
01:39:52,445 --> 01:39:54,197
because I learned...

2357
01:39:55,156 --> 01:39:56,449
from the past

2358
01:39:56,491 --> 01:39:58,493
and I've seen
the mistakes of the past,

2359
01:39:58,535 --> 01:40:02,330
and I'm better for them
and educated by them.

2360
01:40:03,581 --> 01:40:07,001
Just ignoring them,
blocking them out,

2361
01:40:07,043 --> 01:40:08,545
removing them from history...

2362
01:40:09,504 --> 01:40:12,799
is gonna remove
an important educational tool

2363
01:40:12,841 --> 01:40:14,175
to young people.

2364
01:40:16,136 --> 01:40:17,345
And that-- that's it.

2365
01:40:18,096 --> 01:40:25,061
♪

2366
01:41:39,886 --> 01:41:42,722
Defendant Jeffrey Williams
and associate of YSL

2367
01:41:42,764 --> 01:41:45,433
released a song on YouTube

2368
01:41:45,475 --> 01:41:47,811
titled "Slime Shit,"

2369
01:41:47,852 --> 01:41:49,395
where the lyrics state,

2370
01:41:49,437 --> 01:41:52,273
"Hey, this is
that slime shit, hey.

2371
01:41:52,315 --> 01:41:54,651
YSL shit, hey.

2372
01:41:54,692 --> 01:41:56,861
Killing 12 shit, hey.

2373
01:41:56,903 --> 01:41:59,739
Fuck a jail shit, hey.

2374
01:41:59,781 --> 01:42:01,574
Cooking white brick.

2375
01:42:01,616 --> 01:42:03,326
I'm in the VIP

2376
01:42:03,368 --> 01:42:05,453
and I got that pistol on my hip.

2377
01:42:05,912 --> 01:42:08,456
Hey, this that slime shit.

2378
01:42:08,498 --> 01:42:10,583
Fuck, fuck the police.

2379
01:42:10,625 --> 01:42:13,586
Fuck 'em in a high-speed.

2380
01:42:13,628 --> 01:42:15,588
Hundred rounds in a Tahoe.

2381
01:42:15,630 --> 01:42:17,465
I'm prepared to take 'em down.

2382
01:42:17,507 --> 01:42:21,427
Got banana clips for all
these niggas acting monkey.

2383
01:42:21,886 --> 01:42:23,638
This that slime shit.

2384
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:25,390
This that mob shit.

2385
01:42:25,431 --> 01:42:29,644
Fuck the judge, YSL,
this that mob life."

2386
01:42:29,686 --> 01:42:32,689
An overt act in furtherance
of the conspiracy.

2387
01:42:33,481 --> 01:42:34,816
Act 61--