1 00:00:01,609 --> 00:00:05,090 ♪ 2 00:00:05,135 --> 00:00:08,441 Friedman: Our story begins in Southern California. 3 00:00:08,486 --> 00:00:12,054 It's about invisible people who preyed on invisible people 4 00:00:12,098 --> 00:00:15,057 and an industry that preyed on them all. 5 00:00:15,101 --> 00:00:17,537 Sometimes the criminal justice system... 6 00:00:17,582 --> 00:00:20,714 It was more like guilty until proven innocent. 7 00:00:20,759 --> 00:00:22,325 ...isn't all that just. 8 00:00:22,369 --> 00:00:26,068 Which stage of sleepwalking involves murder? 9 00:00:26,112 --> 00:00:27,678 ♪ 10 00:00:27,722 --> 00:00:29,723 That's scary. 11 00:00:29,768 --> 00:00:31,203 Of course it is. 12 00:00:31,248 --> 00:00:32,726 You don't give up, do you? 13 00:00:32,771 --> 00:00:36,948 I'm Jena Friedman, and this is "Indefensible." 14 00:00:36,992 --> 00:00:39,298 ♪ 15 00:00:39,343 --> 00:00:42,432 In our youth-obsessed society, as women age, 16 00:00:42,476 --> 00:00:44,216 we become invisible. 17 00:00:44,261 --> 00:00:45,739 So I hear. 18 00:00:45,784 --> 00:00:48,002 But as you'll learn in this next story, 19 00:00:48,047 --> 00:00:50,962 there are some advantages to invisibility, 20 00:00:51,006 --> 00:00:53,921 like getting away with murder. 21 00:00:53,966 --> 00:00:57,316 ♪ 22 00:00:57,361 --> 00:01:00,276 Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt 23 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,148 were like a real-life Thelma and Louise, 24 00:01:03,193 --> 00:01:05,890 but instead of running their car off a cliff, 25 00:01:05,934 --> 00:01:07,892 they ran it into... 26 00:01:07,936 --> 00:01:10,112 We'll get to that later. 27 00:01:10,156 --> 00:01:12,592 I had never heard of anything like this. 28 00:01:12,637 --> 00:01:14,159 It was like a movie. 29 00:01:14,204 --> 00:01:16,727 Veteran AP journalist Linda Deutsch 30 00:01:16,771 --> 00:01:18,555 reported on the case. 31 00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:22,776 It was a story that nobody could have sold to the studios 32 00:01:22,821 --> 00:01:24,952 and found plausible. 33 00:01:24,997 --> 00:01:26,780 And do you think nobody could have sold it 34 00:01:26,825 --> 00:01:30,001 because the women in it were over 40? 35 00:01:32,222 --> 00:01:34,179 No, I think it couldn't have been sold 36 00:01:34,224 --> 00:01:37,139 because the story itself was so weird. 37 00:01:37,183 --> 00:01:41,360 What were your first impressions of Helen and Olga 38 00:01:41,405 --> 00:01:42,970 when you saw them? 39 00:01:43,015 --> 00:01:45,799 Well, neither of them was very attractive. 40 00:01:47,976 --> 00:01:49,194 ♪ 41 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:51,979 On July 21, 2005, 42 00:01:52,024 --> 00:01:56,027 a body is discovered in an alley in West Hollywood. 43 00:01:56,071 --> 00:01:57,594 There are no eyewitnesses, 44 00:01:57,638 --> 00:02:00,205 but it appears to be a hit-and-run. 45 00:02:00,250 --> 00:02:04,862 The victim is identified as 50-year-old Kenneth McDavid. 46 00:02:04,906 --> 00:02:06,298 Pastor Charles Suhayda 47 00:02:06,343 --> 00:02:08,213 met Kenneth through an outreach program 48 00:02:08,258 --> 00:02:11,521 that Suhayda ran at a Hollywood church. 49 00:02:11,565 --> 00:02:15,002 Ken himself was very much introverted, 50 00:02:15,047 --> 00:02:16,830 and he was still very active in writing. 51 00:02:16,875 --> 00:02:19,006 He was an aspiring writer. 52 00:02:19,051 --> 00:02:22,184 At the time, Kenneth was experiencing homelessness, 53 00:02:22,228 --> 00:02:26,188 and the church's program was a source of support for him. 54 00:02:26,232 --> 00:02:30,192 But one day, Kenneth stopped showing up. 55 00:02:30,236 --> 00:02:33,020 We didn't always see people all the time. 56 00:02:33,065 --> 00:02:35,197 Their lifestyle can be very transient. 57 00:02:35,241 --> 00:02:37,460 It's easy for them to go missing.That's correct. 58 00:02:37,504 --> 00:02:39,201 And no one would even notice. 59 00:02:39,245 --> 00:02:41,203 Nobody's gonna notice. 60 00:02:41,247 --> 00:02:43,422 Kenneth's body is found beside a bike 61 00:02:43,467 --> 00:02:46,643 with one of the tires off, as if he had been changing it. 62 00:02:46,687 --> 00:02:49,123 Only the tire isn't flat. 63 00:02:49,168 --> 00:02:51,125 The scene looked suspicious, 64 00:02:51,170 --> 00:02:55,347 but so do a lot of things in L.A. 65 00:02:55,392 --> 00:02:58,394 Deputy District Attorney Robert Grace. 66 00:02:58,438 --> 00:03:00,570 So many people in Los Angeles are struck 67 00:03:00,614 --> 00:03:03,268 and killed by motor vehicles. 68 00:03:03,313 --> 00:03:05,401 So these hit-and-run investigations 69 00:03:05,445 --> 00:03:08,578 are almost impossible to piece together 70 00:03:08,622 --> 00:03:12,582 because you don't have on-site homicide detectives 71 00:03:12,626 --> 00:03:14,279 who know what to look for. 72 00:03:14,324 --> 00:03:16,586 They're so overwhelmed with so many different types 73 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:18,457 of hit-and-runs that they might not be able 74 00:03:18,502 --> 00:03:20,416 to have the bandwidth to pay the amount 75 00:03:20,460 --> 00:03:21,721 of attention that they would need? 76 00:03:21,766 --> 00:03:23,375 Absolutely. 77 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:25,159 There are few leads 78 00:03:25,204 --> 00:03:29,294 until police get a surprising tip from an unlikely source, 79 00:03:29,339 --> 00:03:32,732 as writer Paul Brownfield explains. 80 00:03:32,777 --> 00:03:35,474 The insurance investigator for Mutual of New York 81 00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:39,261 sees that Kenneth McDavid, an apparently homeless person, 82 00:03:39,305 --> 00:03:42,960 has a million dollars in life insurance on -- on him 83 00:03:43,004 --> 00:03:45,702 and the beneficiaries won't talk to him. 84 00:03:45,746 --> 00:03:48,618 The beneficiaries are Helen Golay 85 00:03:48,662 --> 00:03:50,533 and Olga Rutterschmidt. 86 00:03:50,577 --> 00:03:52,317 So he's contacting Olga and Helen, 87 00:03:52,362 --> 00:03:53,579 and they're not returning his calls. 88 00:03:53,624 --> 00:03:55,320 They're not answering his knocks at the door. 89 00:03:55,365 --> 00:03:59,106 So that's, you know, sort of red flag number one. 90 00:03:59,151 --> 00:04:00,934 Once the insurance investigator 91 00:04:00,979 --> 00:04:03,328 reports his findings to the LAPD, 92 00:04:03,373 --> 00:04:05,156 the stalled homicide investigation 93 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,984 gets a renewed focus... 94 00:04:07,028 --> 00:04:08,725 now that insurance fraud 95 00:04:08,769 --> 00:04:12,903 and a [bleep] ton of money might be involved. 96 00:04:12,947 --> 00:04:16,515 Meanwhile, as luck would have it, Helen and Olga 97 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,997 suddenly become a lot more visible. 98 00:04:20,041 --> 00:04:22,521 The detective who was working 99 00:04:22,566 --> 00:04:25,959 Mr. McDavid's hit-and-run incident, 100 00:04:26,004 --> 00:04:30,181 he had an interesting exchange with Helen and Olga, 101 00:04:30,225 --> 00:04:33,967 who are demanding that the police sign off 102 00:04:34,012 --> 00:04:37,319 on the release of McDavid's body. 103 00:04:37,363 --> 00:04:41,323 So Helen Golay got into a big verbal dispute 104 00:04:41,367 --> 00:04:43,020 with the detective. 105 00:04:43,064 --> 00:04:46,458 A colleague heard the name Helen and Olga and said, 106 00:04:46,503 --> 00:04:50,332 "Helen and Olga. I had a case, like, five years ago 107 00:04:50,376 --> 00:04:51,942 where a Helen and Olga 108 00:04:51,986 --> 00:04:55,554 were trying to retrieve the body for insurance claims." 109 00:04:55,599 --> 00:04:56,990 ♪ 110 00:04:57,035 --> 00:05:01,473 Sure enough, it's the same Helen and Olga. 111 00:05:01,518 --> 00:05:03,954 The man's name is Paul Vados. 112 00:05:03,998 --> 00:05:08,045 He also was experiencing homelessness and also died 113 00:05:08,089 --> 00:05:13,006 in a suspicious hit-and-run. just like Kenneth McDavid. 114 00:05:13,051 --> 00:05:16,836 All the insurance companies remembered Helen based upon 115 00:05:16,881 --> 00:05:19,578 the difficult conversations that they had with her. 116 00:05:19,623 --> 00:05:22,059 She was like the original Karen. 117 00:05:22,103 --> 00:05:24,148 Yes. She -- She would be the -- 118 00:05:24,192 --> 00:05:27,151 the -- the grandmother of Karens. 119 00:05:27,195 --> 00:05:29,980 Huh. So what's Olga like? 120 00:05:30,024 --> 00:05:33,505 She was very eccentric. A very difficult personality. 121 00:05:33,550 --> 00:05:37,509 Very self-absorbed. Once she went to a coffee shop, 122 00:05:37,554 --> 00:05:40,425 she got into a confrontation with another customer. 123 00:05:40,470 --> 00:05:43,733 It escalated. The customer tased her. 124 00:05:43,777 --> 00:05:44,821 ♪ 125 00:05:46,476 --> 00:05:49,956 Friedman: In 2006, Los Angeles police are investigating 126 00:05:50,001 --> 00:05:53,525 the apparent hit-and-run death of a man named Kenneth McDavid 127 00:05:53,570 --> 00:05:56,615 when they discover that two women, Helen Golay 128 00:05:56,660 --> 00:05:58,965 and Olga Rutterschmidt, are beneficiaries 129 00:05:59,010 --> 00:06:03,056 in a life insurance policy they've taken out in his name. 130 00:06:03,101 --> 00:06:05,581 Authorities soon learn that Helen and Olga 131 00:06:05,625 --> 00:06:08,018 are connected to another hit-and-run -- 132 00:06:08,062 --> 00:06:09,889 of a man named Paul Vados, 133 00:06:09,934 --> 00:06:12,457 who died 5 1/2 years prior. 134 00:06:12,502 --> 00:06:16,113 Now police and the insurance companies 135 00:06:16,157 --> 00:06:18,420 are looking into both deaths, 136 00:06:18,464 --> 00:06:23,076 and Helen and Olga are suddenly on their radar. 137 00:06:23,121 --> 00:06:24,469 "Helen Golay, 77, 138 00:06:24,514 --> 00:06:29,256 was born Helen Salisbury in Eastland County, Texas, 139 00:06:29,301 --> 00:06:31,911 and grew up between relatives' homes." 140 00:06:31,956 --> 00:06:35,872 Olga emigrated from Hungary in '57. 141 00:06:35,916 --> 00:06:38,091 Brownfield: They met at a gym of all places. 142 00:06:38,136 --> 00:06:42,792 Olga was a fitness buff, and Helen also went to the gym. 143 00:06:42,836 --> 00:06:45,925 The story went that they would, like, go to hotels, sit out -- 144 00:06:45,970 --> 00:06:49,712 pretend to be guests, sit out by the pool, stealing purses. 145 00:06:49,756 --> 00:06:53,324 They did clearly seem to be into identity theft. 146 00:06:53,368 --> 00:06:57,807 They found each other in a sense, the two grifters. 147 00:06:57,851 --> 00:06:59,330 Yeah. 148 00:06:59,374 --> 00:07:03,029 It turns out Helen and Olga aren't just grifters. 149 00:07:03,074 --> 00:07:06,119 They're involved in a much bigger scheme. 150 00:07:06,164 --> 00:07:09,906 They took out around seven insurance policies on Paul Vados 151 00:07:09,950 --> 00:07:14,171 and 13 on Kenneth McDavid, 152 00:07:14,215 --> 00:07:17,391 and I think they might have tried to take out more. 153 00:07:17,436 --> 00:07:19,611 It's not even the number of policies 154 00:07:19,656 --> 00:07:21,526 as much as their carelessness 155 00:07:21,571 --> 00:07:24,355 that tips off the insurance investigator. 156 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:28,272 They were pretty loosey-goosey sometimes with, 157 00:07:28,316 --> 00:07:31,710 you know, the details. 158 00:07:31,755 --> 00:07:34,365 Sometimes Kenneth McDavid's address 159 00:07:34,409 --> 00:07:35,932 was actually Helen's address, 160 00:07:35,976 --> 00:07:40,502 or Olga was Kenneth McDavid's aunt 161 00:07:40,546 --> 00:07:42,199 to sort of create the -- the impression 162 00:07:42,243 --> 00:07:46,333 of a relationship, a beneficiary relationship. 163 00:07:46,378 --> 00:07:49,902 Bolstered by the insurance investigator's findings, 164 00:07:49,947 --> 00:07:52,731 authorities begin to put together their case, 165 00:07:52,776 --> 00:07:54,864 but they have to act fast. 166 00:07:54,908 --> 00:07:58,389 The police were now surveilling Helen and Olga, 167 00:07:58,433 --> 00:08:01,305 and they had determined that they were well on their way 168 00:08:01,349 --> 00:08:06,310 to trying to set up 169 00:08:06,354 --> 00:08:08,573 a third victim for a murder. 170 00:08:08,618 --> 00:08:11,576 They had picked out a guy who was homeless 171 00:08:11,621 --> 00:08:15,449 and actually got him to sign insurance documents. 172 00:08:15,494 --> 00:08:20,193 The police were afraid for this guy's life. 173 00:08:20,238 --> 00:08:22,152 While police don't have enough evidence 174 00:08:22,196 --> 00:08:24,546 to charge Helen and Olga with murder, 175 00:08:24,590 --> 00:08:26,460 they're able to issue an arrest warrant 176 00:08:26,505 --> 00:08:28,593 on federal mail fraud charges. 177 00:08:28,638 --> 00:08:30,682 I have to call my lawyer here. 178 00:08:30,727 --> 00:08:32,554 What is happening here? 179 00:08:32,598 --> 00:08:37,689 On May 18, 2006, the LAPD, FBI, 180 00:08:37,734 --> 00:08:40,605 and a [bleep] load of other people make their move. 181 00:08:40,650 --> 00:08:42,738 Mayrose: Ms. Golay, my name is Sam Mayrose. 182 00:08:42,782 --> 00:08:45,479 I'm with the FBI. You're under arrest for mail fraud. 183 00:08:45,524 --> 00:08:47,394 Mail fraud?! Yes. 184 00:08:47,439 --> 00:08:50,876 That's right, Helen. Mail fraud. 185 00:08:50,921 --> 00:08:54,619 And for a white-collar crime as boring as mail fraud, 186 00:08:54,664 --> 00:08:58,623 authorities sure do pull out all the stops. 187 00:08:58,668 --> 00:09:02,801 There were 20 to 30 police cars, 188 00:09:02,846 --> 00:09:04,586 20 to 30 police cars? Yes. 189 00:09:04,630 --> 00:09:09,591 So it's like raid-on-bin-Laden- level response? 190 00:09:09,635 --> 00:09:13,943 Yes, it's -- it's an unusual amount of law enforcement. 191 00:09:13,987 --> 00:09:15,509 But not when you [bleep] 192 00:09:15,554 --> 00:09:18,643 with the multibillion-dollar insurance industry. 193 00:09:18,688 --> 00:09:22,778 After Helolga's arrest -- can we call them that -- 194 00:09:22,822 --> 00:09:24,301 police devise a plan. 195 00:09:24,345 --> 00:09:27,173 They put them together in the same holding room. 196 00:09:27,218 --> 00:09:28,827 [Chuckles] What could go wrong? 197 00:09:28,872 --> 00:09:34,833 ♪ 198 00:09:34,878 --> 00:09:36,792 I know. 199 00:09:36,836 --> 00:09:37,967 I know. 200 00:09:38,011 --> 00:09:40,491 ♪ 201 00:09:40,535 --> 00:09:44,843 Olga! Shut the [bleep] up. You're on camera. 202 00:09:44,888 --> 00:09:48,325 Do you think had the insurance investigator 203 00:09:48,369 --> 00:09:52,198 not tipped off law enforcement to Helen and Olga 204 00:09:52,243 --> 00:09:55,854 that the women would have gotten away with the second murder? 205 00:09:55,899 --> 00:09:59,031 Yeah, because the first murder is a cold case at that point 206 00:09:59,076 --> 00:10:02,078 and the second murder is of a -- of a homeless person. 207 00:10:02,122 --> 00:10:05,559 I think what was overlooked was, their crimes exposed 208 00:10:05,604 --> 00:10:09,694 shocking loopholes in the -- in the life insurance industry 209 00:10:09,739 --> 00:10:11,870 and the insurance industry as a whole 210 00:10:11,915 --> 00:10:14,917 that, like, people just don't really want to, 211 00:10:14,961 --> 00:10:18,703 I guess, uh, look at. 212 00:10:18,748 --> 00:10:22,707 It almost makes me want to take out a life insurance policy 213 00:10:22,752 --> 00:10:25,231 so that in the event that I get murdered, 214 00:10:25,276 --> 00:10:27,669 somebody will find my killer, 215 00:10:27,713 --> 00:10:30,323 and that somebody is a private insurance company 216 00:10:30,368 --> 00:10:32,108 who has money on the line. 217 00:10:32,152 --> 00:10:32,891 Yeah. 218 00:10:32,936 --> 00:10:33,892 ♪ 219 00:10:35,765 --> 00:10:40,116 Friedman: After Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt 220 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,685 are arrested on federal mail fraud charges, 221 00:10:43,729 --> 00:10:45,338 police search Helen's apartment 222 00:10:45,383 --> 00:10:47,950 and find a critical new piece of evidence -- 223 00:10:47,994 --> 00:10:49,952 a Post-it note with a license plate 224 00:10:49,996 --> 00:10:52,345 and VIN number of a Mercury Sable. 225 00:10:52,390 --> 00:10:54,086 Man: Police were stumped. 226 00:10:54,131 --> 00:10:57,046 They thought insurance fraud might be all they could prove. 227 00:10:57,090 --> 00:10:58,700 But then a big break. 228 00:10:58,744 --> 00:11:00,832 Police say they found one of the murder weapons -- 229 00:11:00,877 --> 00:11:04,749 this 1999 Mercury Sable Station wagon. 230 00:11:04,794 --> 00:11:06,751 They say the two women had bought the car 231 00:11:06,796 --> 00:11:09,536 and sold it right after McDavid was killed. 232 00:11:09,581 --> 00:11:13,932 Two sexy senior citizens behind bars on federal fraud charges, 233 00:11:13,977 --> 00:11:15,978 and they are looking down the wrong end of the barrel 234 00:11:16,022 --> 00:11:19,111 of murder one charges, as well. 235 00:11:19,156 --> 00:11:21,592 Friedman: Defense attorney Roger Diamond 236 00:11:21,636 --> 00:11:23,855 represented Helen during the trial. 237 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:27,903 What was Helen and Olga's greatest error 238 00:11:27,947 --> 00:11:29,818 other than being guilty? 239 00:11:32,647 --> 00:11:35,084 Well, a number of things. 240 00:11:35,128 --> 00:11:38,957 I'm Helen's defense attorney. I still have loyalty to her. 241 00:11:39,002 --> 00:11:41,873 But it certainly didn't hurt the investigation 242 00:11:41,918 --> 00:11:44,180 to have the insurance company 243 00:11:44,224 --> 00:11:47,661 working side by side with the prosecution. 244 00:11:47,706 --> 00:11:49,794 The prosecutors had the full muscle 245 00:11:49,839 --> 00:11:52,362 of the insurance industry to help them. 246 00:11:52,406 --> 00:11:55,408 And you had a tired woman over 70, 247 00:11:55,453 --> 00:11:59,978 who might also be a murderer, 248 00:12:00,023 --> 00:12:01,980 helping you? That's right. 249 00:12:02,025 --> 00:12:04,548 According to the Los Angeles Times, 250 00:12:04,592 --> 00:12:07,594 at trial, Diamond argued that the insurance companies 251 00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:11,250 were colluding with prosecutors and distorting the evidence 252 00:12:11,295 --> 00:12:13,644 because they had a financial interest 253 00:12:13,688 --> 00:12:15,907 in the women's convictions. 254 00:12:15,952 --> 00:12:19,824 In retrospect, it probably was not proper to claim 255 00:12:19,869 --> 00:12:24,220 that the insurance companies had some kind of motive. 256 00:12:24,264 --> 00:12:26,962 I didn't mean to defame an insurance company. 257 00:12:27,006 --> 00:12:30,400 Now you're turning in favor of the insurance companies. 258 00:12:30,444 --> 00:12:32,054 Why the turn? 259 00:12:32,098 --> 00:12:35,013 Because I'm talking to somebody who's very bright and sharp, 260 00:12:35,058 --> 00:12:36,710 and I'm worried 261 00:12:36,755 --> 00:12:40,062 that she might get me to say something inappropriate. 262 00:12:40,106 --> 00:12:42,804 That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. 263 00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:49,680 In April 2008, Helen Golay and Olga Rutterschmidt 264 00:12:49,724 --> 00:12:52,857 are both convicted of first-degree murder. 265 00:12:52,902 --> 00:12:54,946 Man: Two women, the so-called Black Widows, 266 00:12:54,991 --> 00:12:57,035 will not return to normal free life. 267 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,386 Judge: Kenneth McDavid and Paul Vados 268 00:13:00,431 --> 00:13:02,606 needed a helping hand. 269 00:13:02,650 --> 00:13:05,652 Instead, these unfortunate men 270 00:13:05,697 --> 00:13:09,178 were sacrificed on your altars of greed. 271 00:13:09,222 --> 00:13:12,746 So Helen and Olga are in prison for life 272 00:13:12,791 --> 00:13:15,314 and for good reason. 273 00:13:15,359 --> 00:13:18,013 But what about the insurance companies 274 00:13:18,057 --> 00:13:20,493 that perhaps could have done a little more 275 00:13:20,538 --> 00:13:22,713 due diligence on their policyholders 276 00:13:22,757 --> 00:13:25,281 before anyone got murdered? 277 00:13:25,325 --> 00:13:28,545 Why didn't this tragic, high-profile case 278 00:13:28,589 --> 00:13:32,854 bring about any increased scrutiny of them? 279 00:13:32,898 --> 00:13:35,421 Perhaps because they subsidize the bureau 280 00:13:35,466 --> 00:13:38,903 that's supposed to be scrutinizing them. 281 00:13:38,948 --> 00:13:42,298 The insurance companies as a whole will subsidize 282 00:13:42,342 --> 00:13:45,518 the California Insurance Bureau 283 00:13:45,563 --> 00:13:48,521 because they all contribute to a fund 284 00:13:48,566 --> 00:13:52,917 that helps to try to battle insurance fraud. 285 00:13:52,962 --> 00:13:57,922 Does that fund subsidize police investigations? 286 00:13:57,967 --> 00:13:59,924 They do. 287 00:13:59,969 --> 00:14:03,928 The -- The D.A.'s office has an insurance fraud bureau 288 00:14:03,973 --> 00:14:08,106 that's partially funded by money that we get from the state. 289 00:14:08,151 --> 00:14:09,542 The insurance companies do that. 290 00:14:09,587 --> 00:14:11,544 The entertainment industry does that. 291 00:14:11,589 --> 00:14:14,939 The automobile industry does that. 292 00:14:14,984 --> 00:14:17,594 Did you know that private industries helped fund 293 00:14:17,638 --> 00:14:20,510 law enforcement departments across the country? 294 00:14:20,554 --> 00:14:22,904 Because I sure didn't. 295 00:14:22,948 --> 00:14:24,949 It's so crazy because when you zoom out 296 00:14:24,994 --> 00:14:29,127 and you look at this crisis of homelessness 297 00:14:29,172 --> 00:14:31,260 and all the money kind of going around at the top 298 00:14:31,304 --> 00:14:32,957 and then all the people at the bottom 299 00:14:33,002 --> 00:14:36,526 just kind of falling even further through the cracks. 300 00:14:36,570 --> 00:14:39,355 It's such an interesting system that we live in. 301 00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:41,313 Yeah. Well, it's not cost-effective 302 00:14:41,358 --> 00:14:44,969 to all of the aforementioned industries 303 00:14:45,014 --> 00:14:47,841 that we're talking about to deal with, 304 00:14:47,886 --> 00:14:50,279 you know, a societal problem.Actual... 305 00:14:50,323 --> 00:14:52,411 Actual human lives. 306 00:14:52,456 --> 00:14:54,370 [Chuckles] 307 00:14:54,414 --> 00:14:55,327 Cool. 308 00:14:55,372 --> 00:14:57,329 At least in this case, 309 00:14:57,374 --> 00:14:59,592 the partnership between law enforcement 310 00:14:59,637 --> 00:15:01,551 and the private insurance industry, 311 00:15:01,595 --> 00:15:05,598 which sounds like the worst buddy cop movie ever, 312 00:15:05,643 --> 00:15:07,992 did bring Paul Vados and Kenneth McDavid's 313 00:15:08,037 --> 00:15:11,996 killers to justice. 314 00:15:12,041 --> 00:15:15,086 But there is one more person connected to this case 315 00:15:15,131 --> 00:15:17,959 I want to talk to because she's connected 316 00:15:18,003 --> 00:15:23,007 to almost every high-profile criminal case in Los Angeles. 317 00:15:23,052 --> 00:15:25,836 I'm so excited to talk to this next guest 318 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,447 who represented the victims' families in this case. 319 00:15:28,492 --> 00:15:31,015 We're gonna talk about the case, as well as other issues 320 00:15:31,060 --> 00:15:34,018 involving women and invisibility. 321 00:15:34,063 --> 00:15:36,542 I'm just waiting for her to get here. 322 00:15:36,587 --> 00:15:39,197 Does anyone... 323 00:15:41,722 --> 00:15:43,549 Hi. Sorry. I didn't see you there. 324 00:15:43,594 --> 00:15:44,986 That's okay. 325 00:15:47,076 --> 00:15:50,426 Friedman: Iconic victims' rights attorney 326 00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:53,603 and voice for the voiceless Gloria Allred 327 00:15:53,647 --> 00:15:57,128 represented the families of the victims in this case. 328 00:15:57,173 --> 00:15:59,174 I think it's absolutely an outrage, 329 00:15:59,218 --> 00:16:01,393 and I hope that anyone who ever thinks of preying 330 00:16:01,438 --> 00:16:03,700 on the homeless will understand 331 00:16:03,744 --> 00:16:07,878 there are going to be very serious consequences. 332 00:16:07,922 --> 00:16:10,446 You seem to have your hands on everything. 333 00:16:10,490 --> 00:16:12,404 Not in a Cuomo sort of way. 334 00:16:12,449 --> 00:16:14,711 But my question is, how do you do it? 335 00:16:14,755 --> 00:16:16,234 Are there two of you? 336 00:16:16,279 --> 00:16:18,236 I actually have a law firm. 337 00:16:18,281 --> 00:16:19,672 Okay. You've being modest. 338 00:16:19,717 --> 00:16:21,631 And we have 13 attorneys. 339 00:16:21,675 --> 00:16:24,808 This is a team effort. 340 00:16:24,852 --> 00:16:26,679 All credit to the team. 341 00:16:26,724 --> 00:16:29,856 You started practicing law in an era when men 342 00:16:29,901 --> 00:16:31,815 got away with everything. 343 00:16:31,859 --> 00:16:34,470 When do you think that era will end? 344 00:16:34,514 --> 00:16:36,428 Never. 345 00:16:36,473 --> 00:16:39,301 In your mind, who is more hated in America -- 346 00:16:39,345 --> 00:16:42,652 women or lawyers? 347 00:16:42,696 --> 00:16:44,697 I'm not a sociologist. 348 00:16:44,742 --> 00:16:47,091 What drew you to this particular case 349 00:16:47,136 --> 00:16:50,007 other than that the men involved were dead? 350 00:16:54,534 --> 00:16:58,102 Well, there was 351 00:16:58,147 --> 00:17:01,627 no ability 352 00:17:01,672 --> 00:17:06,110 for the victims to find the whole truth, 353 00:17:06,155 --> 00:17:08,069 except through this case. 354 00:17:08,113 --> 00:17:12,247 Do you think that invisibility played a role in Helen and Olga 355 00:17:12,291 --> 00:17:16,425 being able to get away with what they got away with for so long? 356 00:17:16,469 --> 00:17:21,995 I do think there is an enormous amount of sexism and ageism 357 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:23,997 as women get older. 358 00:17:24,042 --> 00:17:26,652 Do you think that they would have gotten away 359 00:17:26,697 --> 00:17:29,742 with murder the third time 360 00:17:29,787 --> 00:17:33,137 had it not been for the insurance companies 361 00:17:33,182 --> 00:17:35,792 sending an investigator to look into the case? 362 00:17:35,836 --> 00:17:37,968 Well, there were many... 363 00:17:38,012 --> 00:17:42,712 fortuitous incidents that took place. 364 00:17:44,584 --> 00:17:47,238 And I might add the two women, 365 00:17:47,283 --> 00:17:52,548 like most unsuccessful felons, 366 00:17:52,592 --> 00:17:55,681 did not commit the perfect murders. 367 00:17:55,726 --> 00:17:58,162 They thought they did. 368 00:17:58,207 --> 00:18:00,904 But they were not smarter than law enforcement. 369 00:18:00,948 --> 00:18:02,340 Which is saying a lot. 370 00:18:02,385 --> 00:18:06,301 [Chuckles] It's -- It's saying a -- a lot. 371 00:18:06,345 --> 00:18:09,042 Do you hope for the future of the criminal justice system 372 00:18:09,087 --> 00:18:12,133 being a little bit more equitable than it is now? 373 00:18:12,177 --> 00:18:16,267 With all due respect, "hope" is a child's word. 374 00:18:16,312 --> 00:18:21,403 And I don't invest my time in hoping. 375 00:18:21,447 --> 00:18:24,623 Because we have to work for change. 376 00:18:24,668 --> 00:18:26,930 Hoping never gives us anything. 377 00:18:26,974 --> 00:18:28,714 I feel the same way, Mom. 378 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:31,413 Sorry. Gloria. 379 00:18:31,457 --> 00:18:34,546 Actually, many of my clients call me Mama Gloria. 380 00:18:34,591 --> 00:18:37,158 Thank you so much, Gloria, for your time. 381 00:18:37,202 --> 00:18:38,507 Keep fighting the fight. 382 00:18:38,551 --> 00:18:40,944 Thank you. 383 00:18:40,988 --> 00:18:46,079 So what are Helen and Olga up to now? 384 00:18:46,124 --> 00:18:49,039 Brownfield: Olga's really obsessed with, "Helen 385 00:18:49,083 --> 00:18:51,389 can afford a better attorney and, you know, 386 00:18:51,434 --> 00:18:54,610 Helen's gonna get out and I'm gonna rot here," 387 00:18:54,654 --> 00:18:59,180 and it's hard not to feel sorry for a person like that. 388 00:18:59,224 --> 00:19:02,748 If it's any consolation to Olga, it doesn't look like Helen 389 00:19:02,793 --> 00:19:05,360 is getting out any time soon. 390 00:19:05,404 --> 00:19:10,756 Helen, she recently filed a -- 391 00:19:10,801 --> 00:19:14,630 a claim that she was wrongfully convicted.What -- What... 392 00:19:14,674 --> 00:19:18,416 Because our office created a wrongful conviction unit. 393 00:19:18,461 --> 00:19:21,854 So she -- she "let me speak to your manager'd" your office. 394 00:19:21,899 --> 00:19:23,595 [Laughs] 395 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,425 Well, it was weird because when she filed the claim, 396 00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:30,254 I had been named head of the wrongful conviction unit. 397 00:19:30,299 --> 00:19:33,475 The person she asked to speak to the manager is the manager. 398 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,433 [Both laugh] 399 00:19:35,478 --> 00:19:37,435 ♪ 400 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,872 If this case teaches us anything, 401 00:19:39,917 --> 00:19:43,267 other than don't underestimate women over 70, 402 00:19:43,312 --> 00:19:48,272 it's that in America, sometimes justice can prevail, 403 00:19:48,317 --> 00:19:51,623 as long as private money pays for it. 404 00:19:51,668 --> 00:19:53,277 Brought to you by the National Association 405 00:19:53,322 --> 00:19:54,670 of Insurance Companies of America.