1 00:00:06,788 --> 00:00:09,008 [dramatic music] 2 00:00:09,052 --> 00:00:13,795 - He is elegant and regal and horrific. 3 00:00:15,536 --> 00:00:17,321 - My first meeting with Clive he gave me a rundown 4 00:00:17,364 --> 00:00:20,411 of what he wanted, repulsive glamor. 5 00:00:20,454 --> 00:00:22,500 That was my mood board. 6 00:00:22,543 --> 00:00:24,067 - Clive thought of him as a cross 7 00:00:24,110 --> 00:00:26,460 between a monk and a butcher. 8 00:00:26,504 --> 00:00:28,027 - What's interesting about that character, 9 00:00:28,071 --> 00:00:30,638 Pinhead's not even named in the credits of that film. 10 00:00:30,682 --> 00:00:33,946 - Who are you? - Demons to some, 11 00:00:33,989 --> 00:00:35,426 angels to others. 12 00:00:35,469 --> 00:00:37,471 - One of most unparalleled 13 00:00:37,515 --> 00:00:39,778 creative imaginations in horror cinema. 14 00:00:41,562 --> 00:00:43,086 - [Narrator] "Every inch of its head had been tattooed 15 00:00:43,129 --> 00:00:44,565 and, at every intersection, 16 00:00:44,609 --> 00:00:47,873 a jeweled pin driven through to the bone." 17 00:00:47,916 --> 00:00:49,135 [Pinhead yells] 18 00:00:49,179 --> 00:00:50,963 - This was a game changer. 19 00:00:51,006 --> 00:00:55,707 This articulate, kind of soft-spoken gentlemen with power, 20 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:56,969 who could really- 21 00:00:57,012 --> 00:00:59,102 - Tear your soul apart! 22 00:01:00,842 --> 00:01:04,368 - [Woman] He has become the enduring image of the franchise. 23 00:01:04,411 --> 00:01:06,196 - There are people who've never seen "Hellraiser" 24 00:01:06,239 --> 00:01:08,241 who know Pinhead. 25 00:01:08,285 --> 00:01:10,722 - Welcome to hell. 26 00:01:10,765 --> 00:01:13,638 [suspenseful music] 27 00:01:23,604 --> 00:01:26,781 [cameras click] 28 00:01:26,825 --> 00:01:28,522 - I think when people came out of "Hellraiser" 29 00:01:28,566 --> 00:01:30,698 for that first time, they said, "Hey, 30 00:01:30,742 --> 00:01:32,744 check out the guy with the pins in his head." 31 00:01:32,787 --> 00:01:35,007 I didn't really have a sense that 32 00:01:35,050 --> 00:01:36,704 that was what was going to happen. 33 00:01:36,748 --> 00:01:38,184 I would love to say that, "Oh yeah. 34 00:01:38,228 --> 00:01:40,578 Of course, it was all planned." It wasn't. 35 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,452 - He, I don't think ever set out to create a movie monster 36 00:01:45,496 --> 00:01:48,238 in the way of Freddy or Dracula or the like. 37 00:01:48,281 --> 00:01:52,067 He wanted to more so allegorically explore 38 00:01:53,765 --> 00:01:56,550 who we are when we close the door at night. 39 00:01:56,594 --> 00:01:58,335 - I'll do anything you want. 40 00:01:58,378 --> 00:02:01,207 [suspenseful music] 41 00:02:02,948 --> 00:02:04,645 Anything. 42 00:02:04,689 --> 00:02:07,300 - That self that we don't show the rest of the world, 43 00:02:07,344 --> 00:02:08,823 but that everybody has. 44 00:02:08,867 --> 00:02:11,565 [dramatic music] 45 00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:13,176 - One of the things that makes Pinhead 46 00:02:13,219 --> 00:02:16,788 and the Cenobites so successful in the movie is 47 00:02:16,831 --> 00:02:18,920 that we don't know anything about them. 48 00:02:21,227 --> 00:02:24,448 They arrive and they tell you a lot about themselves, 49 00:02:24,491 --> 00:02:26,972 but then they're very good at giving you a lot 50 00:02:27,015 --> 00:02:28,843 of information while telling you nothing. 51 00:02:28,887 --> 00:02:30,628 [electronic crackling] 52 00:02:30,671 --> 00:02:33,457 - [Narrator] It was the Cenobite, its hooks sparkling, 53 00:02:33,500 --> 00:02:35,894 their anatomies catalogs of disfigurement. 54 00:02:37,722 --> 00:02:39,811 - By the end of the movie, you say to yourself, 55 00:02:39,854 --> 00:02:42,553 "Well, those Cenobites, who are they? What are they?" 56 00:02:42,596 --> 00:02:44,207 You don't know. 57 00:02:44,250 --> 00:02:47,035 That's power because the scariest things are the things 58 00:02:47,079 --> 00:02:48,298 that we can't explain, 59 00:02:48,341 --> 00:02:51,301 the things that we can't hang a label on. 60 00:02:51,344 --> 00:02:55,696 - The box, you opened it. We came. 61 00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:57,481 - Who are you? 62 00:02:57,524 --> 00:03:00,875 - Explorers in the further regions of experience. 63 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,747 [dramatic music] 64 00:03:02,790 --> 00:03:05,271 - My relationship with Clive goes back 65 00:03:05,315 --> 00:03:07,795 a long way before "Hellraiser." 66 00:03:07,839 --> 00:03:10,320 We were at high school together in Liverpool. 67 00:03:10,363 --> 00:03:11,973 He was already at school writing, 68 00:03:12,017 --> 00:03:13,714 directing, and starring in, 69 00:03:13,758 --> 00:03:17,588 and hand drawing the posters for, his own plays. 70 00:03:17,631 --> 00:03:22,114 I think 1985 he first mentioned to me that he was trying 71 00:03:22,157 --> 00:03:24,116 to put this little independent, 72 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:27,075 British horror movie together and that there was a part 73 00:03:27,119 --> 00:03:29,643 in there he thought I might be interested in. 74 00:03:31,166 --> 00:03:33,081 We talked about the character a lot. 75 00:03:33,125 --> 00:03:36,911 Of course, didn't have a name at that point 76 00:03:36,955 --> 00:03:38,173 and I'd seen drawings. 77 00:03:38,217 --> 00:03:41,089 I'd read "The Hellbound Heart." 78 00:03:41,133 --> 00:03:45,790 But, it's the female Cenobite who's the main protagonist. 79 00:03:47,226 --> 00:03:48,749 So, the next step is the screenplay. 80 00:03:48,793 --> 00:03:51,752 Then, it's whatever happens between the words on the page 81 00:03:51,796 --> 00:03:56,322 and your imagination as an actor and then the makeup 82 00:03:56,366 --> 00:03:59,630 and the costume, which is 90% of the deal I think. 83 00:04:02,023 --> 00:04:03,416 - [Clive] There's a description in "The Hellbound Heart" 84 00:04:03,460 --> 00:04:05,853 of what the Cenobites look like. 85 00:04:05,897 --> 00:04:07,420 - [Narrator] When it spoke, the hooks 86 00:04:07,464 --> 00:04:10,641 that transfixed the flaps of its eyes and were wed, 87 00:04:10,684 --> 00:04:12,817 by an intricate system of chains passed 88 00:04:12,860 --> 00:04:15,472 through flesh and bone alike. 89 00:04:15,515 --> 00:04:17,082 - And it indicates that they're sort 90 00:04:17,125 --> 00:04:20,303 of what we would now call modern primitives, 91 00:04:20,346 --> 00:04:22,914 people who've made an art form of their own bodies, 92 00:04:22,957 --> 00:04:27,440 piercing, scarification, brandings of various kinds. 93 00:04:27,484 --> 00:04:28,615 Back then it was much, 94 00:04:28,659 --> 00:04:30,051 much harder to see that. 95 00:04:30,095 --> 00:04:33,185 There was much less of that around. 96 00:04:33,228 --> 00:04:37,885 - Clive had shown me a magazine when we were talking about 97 00:04:37,929 --> 00:04:40,366 and preparing for "Hellraiser," 98 00:04:40,410 --> 00:04:43,369 which was called "Piercing Fans International Quarterly," 99 00:04:43,413 --> 00:04:48,113 PFIQ, that was filled with pictures of people slicing 100 00:04:49,636 --> 00:04:53,901 and dicing every inch of their anatomy. 101 00:04:53,945 --> 00:04:55,425 - Whether you're designing a wedding dress 102 00:04:55,468 --> 00:04:58,645 or a supermasochist from Hell's outfit, 103 00:04:58,689 --> 00:05:00,212 you're gathering your resources. 104 00:05:00,255 --> 00:05:02,693 So, PFIQ was a resource. 105 00:05:02,736 --> 00:05:05,478 What I do remember was there was quite a lot of anxiety 106 00:05:05,522 --> 00:05:07,915 about the fact that I could only have the magazines 107 00:05:07,959 --> 00:05:09,482 for a limited amount of time 108 00:05:09,526 --> 00:05:11,484 because the person who owned them was very anxious 109 00:05:11,528 --> 00:05:12,442 to have them back. 110 00:05:14,182 --> 00:05:16,402 My first meeting with Clive he gave me a rundown 111 00:05:16,446 --> 00:05:18,404 of what he wanted for these characters 112 00:05:18,448 --> 00:05:20,841 and I actually have my sketchbook here 113 00:05:20,885 --> 00:05:24,671 from the 20th of April, 1986. 114 00:05:24,715 --> 00:05:27,935 One, areas of revealed flesh where some kind 115 00:05:27,979 --> 00:05:30,982 of torture has or is occurring. 116 00:05:31,025 --> 00:05:34,942 Two, something associated with butchery involved. 117 00:05:34,986 --> 00:05:37,902 This is typical Clive notes for a meeting. 118 00:05:37,945 --> 00:05:39,294 Then a question mark. 119 00:05:39,338 --> 00:05:41,384 Butchers chain mail aprons and gauntlets, 120 00:05:41,427 --> 00:05:43,037 abattoir ware, and then, 121 00:05:43,081 --> 00:05:47,825 and this is such a Clive phrase, repulsive glamor. 122 00:05:49,566 --> 00:05:53,178 That was really, that was my mood board, repulsive glamor. 123 00:05:54,658 --> 00:05:55,789 Then, we have a note about jeweled hooks 124 00:05:55,833 --> 00:05:57,617 and torture instruments which Pinhead 125 00:05:57,661 --> 00:06:00,359 had hanging from his body. 126 00:06:00,403 --> 00:06:04,145 Very interesting how the investment of personal vision 127 00:06:04,189 --> 00:06:07,366 and lived experience in those characters. 128 00:06:07,410 --> 00:06:12,197 So, Clive's S&M, my interest in death and transformation. 129 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,113 Mythical creatures point to deeper truths 130 00:06:15,156 --> 00:06:17,158 and are informed by lived experience. 131 00:06:18,812 --> 00:06:21,946 - Sexuality is very much a driving force in "Hellraiser." 132 00:06:21,989 --> 00:06:25,253 The sadomasochism of the Cenobites is front and center. 133 00:06:25,297 --> 00:06:28,474 Jane and I've talked about this being perversity 134 00:06:28,518 --> 00:06:30,563 as a fashion statement with the Cenobites 135 00:06:30,607 --> 00:06:33,436 and the way in which costume and the flesh are interwoven. 136 00:06:33,479 --> 00:06:35,829 You see it in Pinhead's costume. 137 00:06:35,873 --> 00:06:38,832 The flaps of flash come over the costume 138 00:06:38,876 --> 00:06:41,748 and they're held in place by hooks. 139 00:06:41,792 --> 00:06:45,578 The whole idea of self-mutilation feeds into that as well, 140 00:06:45,622 --> 00:06:48,929 which is an essential element in the way the Cenobites look. 141 00:06:48,973 --> 00:06:53,456 - I was remembering going to this deep sea fishing place 142 00:06:53,499 --> 00:06:56,241 in North London and walking in and saying, 143 00:06:56,284 --> 00:06:58,722 "What are the most brutal hooks that you've got?" 144 00:06:58,765 --> 00:07:01,464 And then, I started to explaining why I wanted them. 145 00:07:01,507 --> 00:07:03,553 And they said they thought that I was somebody who had come 146 00:07:03,596 --> 00:07:07,644 to kind of do some inspection of animal cruelty. 147 00:07:07,687 --> 00:07:10,342 Whereas in fact, I was just wanting something that the guys 148 00:07:10,385 --> 00:07:12,300 in PFIQ might have liked. 149 00:07:12,344 --> 00:07:14,564 Everyone was very happy with the drawings. 150 00:07:14,607 --> 00:07:17,349 And so, then, it was just a rush of order the materials, 151 00:07:17,392 --> 00:07:19,438 start cutting the patterns, 152 00:07:19,482 --> 00:07:22,180 molding the shapes for the top parts of the costumes. 153 00:07:22,223 --> 00:07:24,487 [electronic music] 154 00:07:24,530 --> 00:07:28,316 - Makeup and costume are often intrinsically linked simply 155 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:29,970 because, when you have a makeup, 156 00:07:30,014 --> 00:07:31,842 like one of the Cenobites, 157 00:07:31,885 --> 00:07:35,759 that is literally intrinsically linked to the costume, 158 00:07:35,802 --> 00:07:37,848 so it's like leapfrogging over each other. 159 00:07:37,891 --> 00:07:39,806 Jane gave us the designs. 160 00:07:39,850 --> 00:07:43,549 We worked in what we would be able to do with all of them. 161 00:07:45,203 --> 00:07:48,162 With Pinhead, there are five individual pieces 162 00:07:48,206 --> 00:07:49,512 that make up the makeup. 163 00:07:49,555 --> 00:07:51,209 Biggest piece of the makeup was a cowl piece. 164 00:07:51,252 --> 00:07:52,906 It was the back of his head 165 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:54,517 and it went round behind his ears 166 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:55,735 and then down around his neck 167 00:07:55,779 --> 00:07:57,694 with the three hooks on the back. 168 00:07:57,737 --> 00:08:00,523 You then had a face piece that went from across the top 169 00:08:00,566 --> 00:08:02,568 of his head, down across here, 170 00:08:02,612 --> 00:08:04,570 and around here with holes there 171 00:08:04,614 --> 00:08:06,572 and then a forehead piece that went across from there 172 00:08:06,616 --> 00:08:08,618 to there, across the scars, 173 00:08:08,661 --> 00:08:11,316 and then, to finish off, two soft pieces 174 00:08:11,359 --> 00:08:13,579 that finish across scars down there 175 00:08:13,623 --> 00:08:15,581 and blended in around the back there 176 00:08:15,625 --> 00:08:17,409 with a hole for his ears and they would be put 177 00:08:17,452 --> 00:08:18,845 on in a specific order. 178 00:08:18,889 --> 00:08:20,630 [dramatic music] 179 00:08:20,673 --> 00:08:21,892 - [Narrator] Every inch of its head had been tattooed 180 00:08:21,935 --> 00:08:23,807 with an intricate grid, 181 00:08:23,850 --> 00:08:26,070 and at every intersection of horizontal 182 00:08:26,113 --> 00:08:30,248 and vertical axes a jeweled pin driven through to the bone. 183 00:08:30,291 --> 00:08:32,816 - I think it's 112 nails in his head. 184 00:08:32,859 --> 00:08:35,383 I actually took a life cast of Doug's face 185 00:08:35,427 --> 00:08:38,082 and projected some lines onto it to give me the basis 186 00:08:38,125 --> 00:08:39,649 for where I wanted the lines to go. 187 00:08:41,346 --> 00:08:43,609 The original design had tiny little 188 00:08:43,653 --> 00:08:45,959 silver sewing pins with little heads. 189 00:08:46,003 --> 00:08:48,614 My problem with it, and I said to Clive, 190 00:08:48,658 --> 00:08:50,224 "I'm really worried about this. 191 00:08:50,268 --> 00:08:52,270 I don't think the pins will show up on film 192 00:08:52,313 --> 00:08:53,967 because they're so thin." 193 00:08:54,011 --> 00:08:56,404 We did one days test shooting with Doug 194 00:08:56,448 --> 00:08:57,754 and with the pins in. 195 00:08:57,797 --> 00:08:58,885 The pins just didn't show up. 196 00:08:58,929 --> 00:09:00,583 You saw glints of light. 197 00:09:00,626 --> 00:09:04,456 It was almost like a flickering halo around his head. 198 00:09:04,499 --> 00:09:07,241 So, we very, very quickly, I think it was about a week 199 00:09:07,285 --> 00:09:08,982 or two to the start of shooting, 200 00:09:10,375 --> 00:09:12,029 I basically took some brass tubing, 201 00:09:13,117 --> 00:09:14,640 cut it into one inch lengths, 202 00:09:14,684 --> 00:09:18,557 and then cut the ends off brass nails and superglued them 203 00:09:18,601 --> 00:09:21,908 to the end of the tubing and each makeup then consisted 204 00:09:21,952 --> 00:09:25,912 of a layer of latex and then a pin pushed through, 205 00:09:25,956 --> 00:09:28,654 and then a nail pushed over the top of that. 206 00:09:28,698 --> 00:09:32,223 So, he was called Pinhead because he had pins. 207 00:09:32,266 --> 00:09:33,877 Otherwise, he might've been Nailhead, 208 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,487 which doesn't sound quite as good. 209 00:09:37,707 --> 00:09:39,056 One of Clive's stipulations 210 00:09:39,099 --> 00:09:41,536 of the design was he wanted Doug's face. 211 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:43,713 He did not want to lose Doug. 212 00:09:43,756 --> 00:09:46,280 That was major, major stipulation. 213 00:09:46,324 --> 00:09:48,326 - What Jeff was doing from a technical point 214 00:09:48,369 --> 00:09:51,372 of view was phenomenal. 215 00:09:51,416 --> 00:09:53,679 Long before the days of CGI, 216 00:09:53,723 --> 00:09:55,420 what it meant was you could see 217 00:09:55,463 --> 00:09:57,291 all the expression on Doug's face. 218 00:09:57,335 --> 00:10:00,904 I mean, it was a really sophisticated and subtle piece 219 00:10:00,947 --> 00:10:05,648 of makeup innovation in its day and that is a huge key, 220 00:10:07,127 --> 00:10:08,912 I think, to the power of Doug's performance 221 00:10:08,955 --> 00:10:12,132 because we can actually see his facial expressions. 222 00:10:12,176 --> 00:10:14,308 It's not an immobile mask. 223 00:10:14,352 --> 00:10:16,223 [dramatic music] 224 00:10:16,267 --> 00:10:18,008 - When I had the makeup on for the first time 225 00:10:18,051 --> 00:10:20,663 and it had taken five or six hours to get the makeup on 226 00:10:20,706 --> 00:10:23,753 and I just sat in the chair in front of the mirror. 227 00:10:25,319 --> 00:10:27,191 I look in the mirror and I'm not there. 228 00:10:27,234 --> 00:10:31,935 It's this thing is now looking back at me and it's strange. 229 00:10:33,545 --> 00:10:36,287 A whole multitude of sensations were coming back 230 00:10:36,330 --> 00:10:39,420 off the mirror, different feelings I had suddenly 231 00:10:39,464 --> 00:10:42,293 about what the character was. 232 00:10:42,336 --> 00:10:45,122 - He stood very still and didn't move his face and I said, 233 00:10:45,165 --> 00:10:49,648 "Doug, try it: Smile." And he went, "Oh!" 234 00:10:49,692 --> 00:10:52,520 And he suddenly realized that he could do all the things 235 00:10:52,564 --> 00:10:53,826 that the actor wants to do. 236 00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:57,090 - And then you can start wondering what happens 237 00:10:57,134 --> 00:11:00,920 if I try talking and saying one 238 00:11:00,964 --> 00:11:03,009 of Clive's wonderful lines through the makeup. 239 00:11:03,053 --> 00:11:04,315 How's that reading? 240 00:11:04,358 --> 00:11:07,535 - We have such sights to show you. 241 00:11:07,579 --> 00:11:10,756 - That's really weird, that dichotomy between the two, 242 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,891 between how Doug Bradley physically embodied the character, 243 00:11:14,934 --> 00:11:17,981 but how he looked and the horror 244 00:11:18,024 --> 00:11:20,505 that is expressed through his physicality 245 00:11:20,548 --> 00:11:24,509 versus how he speaks and how he kind of carries himself 246 00:11:24,552 --> 00:11:26,554 and I think that's what was seductive about it. 247 00:11:26,598 --> 00:11:28,818 [dramatic music] 248 00:11:28,861 --> 00:11:30,776 - First day of filming on "Hellraiser," 249 00:11:30,820 --> 00:11:34,649 I was really getting one note back from Clive. 250 00:11:34,693 --> 00:11:38,828 He'd finally got this character living, 251 00:11:38,871 --> 00:11:41,352 breathing, walking, talking, standing in front of him. 252 00:11:41,395 --> 00:11:43,571 He's looking at it in the camera, getting very excited. 253 00:11:43,615 --> 00:11:46,096 I got one note from him repeatedly the first few takes: 254 00:11:46,139 --> 00:11:49,229 "Do less, do less. 255 00:11:49,273 --> 00:11:52,232 What you're doing is fantastic, just do less." 256 00:11:52,276 --> 00:11:55,105 What he was saying was "Don't fight the makeup. 257 00:11:55,148 --> 00:11:59,849 If you are selling us nothing and through that makeup, 258 00:12:01,676 --> 00:12:04,984 you're telling us that you'll tear our soul apart it works. 259 00:12:05,028 --> 00:12:06,812 And, by the time it goes up on the big screen, 260 00:12:06,856 --> 00:12:08,596 it will work even more." 261 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,598 - But if you cheat us. 262 00:12:10,642 --> 00:12:13,558 - We'll tear your soul apart! 263 00:12:15,473 --> 00:12:18,737 - Pinhead entirely hinged on the performance. 264 00:12:18,781 --> 00:12:20,870 You can smack pins in somebody's head 265 00:12:20,913 --> 00:12:24,003 and have them walk around in that crazy S&M vestment. 266 00:12:24,047 --> 00:12:25,788 But, at the end of the day, 267 00:12:25,831 --> 00:12:28,529 Pinhead talks and that's not something that we saw 268 00:12:28,573 --> 00:12:30,575 in all of the monsters from this time period. 269 00:12:30,618 --> 00:12:32,882 If we look back, many of them were just silent, 270 00:12:32,925 --> 00:12:36,799 giant, hulking menaces walking through woods and suburbs. 271 00:12:36,842 --> 00:12:40,019 Pinhead had to speak and he had to deliver 272 00:12:40,063 --> 00:12:43,370 and he had to be very menacing 273 00:12:43,414 --> 00:12:46,243 and calculating and frightening. 274 00:12:46,286 --> 00:12:49,072 - When you have an actor who's allowed to actually act, 275 00:12:49,115 --> 00:12:51,074 you have a different kind of personality. 276 00:12:51,117 --> 00:12:52,727 - Doug Bradley did such a good job. 277 00:12:52,771 --> 00:12:56,166 I mean, the delivery of those lines. 278 00:12:56,209 --> 00:12:58,864 - Frank. - It's him. 279 00:12:58,908 --> 00:13:01,127 It's his voice. It's his delivery. 280 00:13:01,171 --> 00:13:02,868 It's his face. 281 00:13:02,912 --> 00:13:05,566 It's all of the things that he did that brought Pinhead 282 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:07,873 to life and made Pinhead so magical. 283 00:13:07,917 --> 00:13:11,659 - He is elegant and regal and horrific 284 00:13:11,703 --> 00:13:14,532 and you definitely don't want him showing up in your house. 285 00:13:14,575 --> 00:13:16,708 But, you can't help but be in thrall 286 00:13:16,751 --> 00:13:19,232 of that command he holds. 287 00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:22,888 - Pinhead wears those nails like it's regalia, 288 00:13:22,932 --> 00:13:27,023 with his chin held high and with these imposing monologues. 289 00:13:27,066 --> 00:13:29,852 - You solved the box. We came. 290 00:13:29,895 --> 00:13:32,289 Now you must come with us. 291 00:13:32,332 --> 00:13:33,943 - What's interesting about the character, 292 00:13:33,986 --> 00:13:36,989 Pinhead's not even named in the credits of that film. 293 00:13:37,033 --> 00:13:39,905 We don't know it's Pinhead, yet that's what we think of now. 294 00:13:39,949 --> 00:13:41,515 - What really speaks to that, 295 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,823 I think, is that he has become the enduring image 296 00:13:44,867 --> 00:13:48,218 of the franchise despite barely being in that first film. 297 00:13:48,261 --> 00:13:50,873 He just stole the whole thing. 298 00:13:50,916 --> 00:13:52,918 - Pinhead is sort of an outlier when it comes 299 00:13:52,962 --> 00:13:55,878 to the other eighties horror icons 300 00:13:55,921 --> 00:13:58,837 because the initial intent for the character was not 301 00:13:58,881 --> 00:14:02,319 to make him the lead villain of the franchise. 302 00:14:02,362 --> 00:14:03,755 - People really responded to this 303 00:14:03,798 --> 00:14:06,453 very strange and unusual character. 304 00:14:06,497 --> 00:14:08,368 He wasn't someone just in a mask or a hood 305 00:14:08,412 --> 00:14:09,369 or something like that. 306 00:14:09,413 --> 00:14:10,631 He just sort of, I think, 307 00:14:10,675 --> 00:14:13,199 kind of accidentally became an icon. 308 00:14:13,243 --> 00:14:15,071 - You look at Michael Myers, you know what he is. 309 00:14:15,114 --> 00:14:16,376 He's a mass killer. 310 00:14:16,420 --> 00:14:17,203 You look at Pinhead you're like- 311 00:14:17,247 --> 00:14:18,901 - What the fuck is that? 312 00:14:18,944 --> 00:14:21,729 - Up until that point, monsters were either kind 313 00:14:21,773 --> 00:14:23,775 of funny, wise cracking. 314 00:14:23,818 --> 00:14:25,168 - You've got the body, 315 00:14:25,211 --> 00:14:27,518 [suspenseful music] 316 00:14:27,561 --> 00:14:29,433 I've got the brain. 317 00:14:29,476 --> 00:14:31,087 - Or they were silent. 318 00:14:31,130 --> 00:14:33,611 But, when we were introduced to Clive Barker's Pinhead, 319 00:14:33,654 --> 00:14:38,355 it was this demonic icon who could really destroy you. 320 00:14:39,747 --> 00:14:40,792 [train horn blares] 321 00:14:40,835 --> 00:14:44,448 - We want the man who did this. 322 00:14:45,884 --> 00:14:47,581 - He's good at his job and he enjoys it. 323 00:14:47,625 --> 00:14:50,367 But, he's not as gleeful about it as say Chucky 324 00:14:50,410 --> 00:14:52,499 or Freddy might be. 325 00:14:52,543 --> 00:14:54,849 He's simply there to do the work 326 00:14:54,893 --> 00:14:56,460 and he wants you to join him in hell. 327 00:14:56,503 --> 00:14:58,418 - Pinhead is different from the other 328 00:14:58,462 --> 00:15:00,986 great eighties horror monsters 329 00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:04,424 in that it's not really a slasher. 330 00:15:04,468 --> 00:15:07,775 He's more of a psychological monster and less 331 00:15:07,819 --> 00:15:09,690 of the physical dread. 332 00:15:09,734 --> 00:15:11,214 - One of the things that makes Pinhead 333 00:15:11,257 --> 00:15:15,305 so much more interesting in my opinion than Freddy 334 00:15:15,348 --> 00:15:18,743 or Michael Myers or Jason Voorhees is 335 00:15:18,786 --> 00:15:21,876 that you feel he is a man of the world. 336 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,401 He's seen it all and he's bored with it all 337 00:15:24,444 --> 00:15:26,229 and I think that's kind of interesting. 338 00:15:26,272 --> 00:15:30,189 - When Pinhead confronts someone, 339 00:15:30,233 --> 00:15:32,583 he doesn't just jump out and kill them. 340 00:15:32,626 --> 00:15:37,109 He wants to hear about those murky cobwebbed corners 341 00:15:37,153 --> 00:15:40,286 in your head that you don't really talk about, 342 00:15:40,330 --> 00:15:43,202 those dirty perverse corners, 343 00:15:43,246 --> 00:15:45,813 the corners that horror lives in. 344 00:15:45,857 --> 00:15:48,816 - There's not the kind of the stalking of the prey 345 00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:51,471 that you see in the "Friday the 13th" movies 346 00:15:51,515 --> 00:15:53,125 or "Nightmare on Elm Street." 347 00:15:53,169 --> 00:15:55,258 It's not like Jason cutting someone's head off. 348 00:15:55,301 --> 00:15:57,695 This is more about you being corrupted 349 00:15:57,738 --> 00:15:59,784 by your own curiosity. 350 00:15:59,827 --> 00:16:01,960 - [Merchant] What's your pleasure, Mr. Cotton? 351 00:16:03,831 --> 00:16:05,616 - [Frank] The box. 352 00:16:05,659 --> 00:16:07,966 - Pinhead and the Cenobites represent that. 353 00:16:09,837 --> 00:16:12,188 - Pinhead is the one you graduate to. 354 00:16:13,580 --> 00:16:16,409 That was my step into adult horror. 355 00:16:16,453 --> 00:16:19,760 - Super bondagey and BDSM realness 356 00:16:19,804 --> 00:16:21,632 that you hadn't really seen before. 357 00:16:21,675 --> 00:16:26,376 - Oh, no tears, please. It's a waste of good suffering! 358 00:16:28,030 --> 00:16:29,596 - It's one of the best character designs we'll ever see 359 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,034 and the performance and the voice grabbed us. 360 00:16:32,077 --> 00:16:33,252 - But, I also love the fact 361 00:16:33,296 --> 00:16:35,689 that Pinhead can be bargained with 362 00:16:35,733 --> 00:16:37,604 and what's great about Kirsty, 363 00:16:37,648 --> 00:16:39,128 as the kind of "Hellraiser" final girl, 364 00:16:39,171 --> 00:16:41,173 is that she knows how to manipulate him. 365 00:16:41,217 --> 00:16:44,481 So, when he shows up, she's like, "Ah, ah, ah! 366 00:16:44,524 --> 00:16:47,484 Before you start flaying flash, I know where Frank is." 367 00:16:47,527 --> 00:16:49,529 - He escaped you! 368 00:16:49,573 --> 00:16:51,444 - Nobody escapes us! 369 00:16:51,488 --> 00:16:53,707 - [Kirsty] He did! I've seen him, I've seen him! 370 00:16:53,751 --> 00:16:57,972 - And Pinhead's like, "I'm listening. Tell me more." 371 00:16:58,016 --> 00:17:00,497 And I love that because he's not just a guy 372 00:17:00,540 --> 00:17:01,802 that says, "I'm going to kill you." 373 00:17:01,846 --> 00:17:03,935 He's someone that loves a good conversation. 374 00:17:03,978 --> 00:17:06,285 - What has that to do with you? 375 00:17:06,329 --> 00:17:07,591 - I, I can, I can lead you to him! 376 00:17:09,506 --> 00:17:13,249 And you, you can take him back instead of me! 377 00:17:13,292 --> 00:17:14,467 - Maybe, maybe. 378 00:17:16,556 --> 00:17:18,471 - Pinhead out of all the boogeymen is kind 379 00:17:18,515 --> 00:17:20,299 of a dude I'd love to have a drink with 380 00:17:20,343 --> 00:17:23,824 or some tea and talk about the limits of flesh 381 00:17:23,868 --> 00:17:25,783 and all these kinds of things. 382 00:17:25,826 --> 00:17:27,089 - Clive is great for this. 383 00:17:27,132 --> 00:17:29,743 He'll give you your kind of imaginative insight 384 00:17:29,787 --> 00:17:33,965 into a character that you can't get anywhere else. 385 00:17:34,008 --> 00:17:37,490 So, he told me he thought of him as a cross between a monk 386 00:17:37,534 --> 00:17:40,450 and a butcher, that I should think of myself 387 00:17:40,493 --> 00:17:42,104 being the head surgeon in a hospital. 388 00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:46,151 But, I'm also the chief bureaucrat, 389 00:17:46,195 --> 00:17:47,892 the chief administrator responsible 390 00:17:47,935 --> 00:17:49,850 for keeping things running on time. 391 00:17:49,894 --> 00:17:52,636 - Every other slasher villain takes a pleasure 392 00:17:52,679 --> 00:17:53,941 in the crimes they commit. 393 00:17:53,985 --> 00:17:57,945 They take joy in these murders and these kills. 394 00:17:57,989 --> 00:18:01,253 Charles Lee Ray wants to be a bad guy. Jason wants revenge. 395 00:18:01,297 --> 00:18:03,734 Michael Myers is the epitome of pure evil. 396 00:18:03,777 --> 00:18:05,388 There's something really terrifying about a villain 397 00:18:05,431 --> 00:18:07,694 that lives with a completely different set of rules 398 00:18:07,738 --> 00:18:10,175 and moral codes than anything else on the plane 399 00:18:10,219 --> 00:18:14,962 that you exist in 'cause I don't think Pinhead or any 400 00:18:15,006 --> 00:18:18,836 of the Cenobites are villains necessarily in their realm. 401 00:18:18,879 --> 00:18:21,447 They are just doing the thing that they are supposed to. 402 00:18:21,491 --> 00:18:23,623 - Pinhead, he's just doing what he's told, man. 403 00:18:23,667 --> 00:18:25,495 He's just dealing with the politics of Hell. 404 00:18:25,538 --> 00:18:27,105 Somebody calls him. He shows up. 405 00:18:27,149 --> 00:18:29,238 He does what he's supposed to be doing. 406 00:18:29,281 --> 00:18:33,242 But, Julia is truly for me, the villain of the movie. 407 00:18:34,678 --> 00:18:36,288 - Oh, the baddest bitch. 408 00:18:36,332 --> 00:18:37,724 She didn't have any powers and she was still going 409 00:18:37,768 --> 00:18:39,465 after people and clocking them with a hammer. 410 00:18:39,509 --> 00:18:42,642 [hammer thuds] [man groans] 411 00:18:42,686 --> 00:18:46,037 You see this degradation of her character driven 412 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,781 by her sexual desire and this decomposition of her morals 413 00:18:52,478 --> 00:18:55,568 and then she just becomes this murderous, crazy bitch. 414 00:18:55,612 --> 00:18:57,309 - I mean, part of me is like, "I get it. 415 00:18:57,353 --> 00:18:58,919 She wants her some uncle Frank 416 00:18:58,963 --> 00:19:01,139 'cause her husband is not doing it 417 00:19:01,183 --> 00:19:03,663 for her the way Uncle Frank used to." 418 00:19:03,707 --> 00:19:04,664 - Come to daddy. 419 00:19:04,708 --> 00:19:06,840 - I think she's so underrated. 420 00:19:06,884 --> 00:19:08,755 Pinhead, of course, became the star, right? 421 00:19:10,496 --> 00:19:12,368 - I don't know if the world was ready to recognize her 422 00:19:12,411 --> 00:19:14,283 as a true monster. 423 00:19:14,326 --> 00:19:17,199 She was being upstaged by Pinhead and his lot. 424 00:19:17,242 --> 00:19:18,852 [dramatic music] 425 00:19:18,896 --> 00:19:21,812 - Now, where were we? 426 00:19:21,855 --> 00:19:25,555 - The original story that "Hellraiser" is based off of, 427 00:19:25,598 --> 00:19:29,646 the lead center bite is kind of its secondary character. 428 00:19:29,689 --> 00:19:33,258 Instead we focus on family dynamic. 429 00:19:33,302 --> 00:19:35,869 - [Frank] You going to let me kiss the bride? 430 00:19:35,913 --> 00:19:37,219 - [Julia] What about Larry? 431 00:19:37,262 --> 00:19:38,698 [switchblade clicks] 432 00:19:38,742 --> 00:19:40,047 - [Frank] Forget him. 433 00:19:40,091 --> 00:19:42,224 - And then steps in the 1980s. 434 00:19:42,267 --> 00:19:44,008 [eerie music] 435 00:19:44,051 --> 00:19:47,620 In 1987, we had learned our lesson in Hollywood 436 00:19:47,664 --> 00:19:50,275 of how we needed to be marketing horror movies. 437 00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:51,929 We have to have a monster. 438 00:19:51,972 --> 00:19:54,061 We have to have the face that is going to go on the poster 439 00:19:54,105 --> 00:19:56,760 and that is what is going to sell this franchise forward. 440 00:19:56,803 --> 00:19:58,675 So, what do they put on the poster? 441 00:19:58,718 --> 00:20:01,547 It is Pinhead grinding his teeth, holding a box 442 00:20:01,591 --> 00:20:03,593 and that's really all we need. 443 00:20:03,636 --> 00:20:04,898 - That was the first time I remember just going like, 444 00:20:04,942 --> 00:20:06,552 "Whoa, the villain!" 445 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:09,642 They knew that the story of Hellraiser was way crazier 446 00:20:09,686 --> 00:20:11,209 than just the image of Pinhead. 447 00:20:11,253 --> 00:20:14,778 - So much for the cat and mouse shit! 448 00:20:14,821 --> 00:20:17,737 - And, so they could put pinhead on the tape cover just 449 00:20:17,781 --> 00:20:19,435 to get you to take it home. 450 00:20:19,478 --> 00:20:21,263 - I feel like a terrified people. 451 00:20:21,306 --> 00:20:23,743 I mean, I remember seeing it and being like, "What is that?" 452 00:20:23,787 --> 00:20:26,180 Because you, of course, saw other movie monsters, 453 00:20:26,224 --> 00:20:27,878 Jason, Freddy, things like that. 454 00:20:27,921 --> 00:20:32,143 But, this person wore, their torment on their face, 455 00:20:32,186 --> 00:20:34,537 which is really unusual just to see that on a box cover. 456 00:20:34,580 --> 00:20:35,929 It was so striking. 457 00:20:35,973 --> 00:20:38,105 I really think that that was genius marketing. 458 00:20:38,149 --> 00:20:39,803 Obviously, there were other horror movies 459 00:20:39,846 --> 00:20:41,761 that were super gruesome back then, 460 00:20:41,805 --> 00:20:45,722 but none that reached that level of media attention. 461 00:20:45,765 --> 00:20:48,812 - Do you want as much graphic detail in the violence 462 00:20:48,855 --> 00:20:50,988 and in the gore as you can get? 463 00:20:51,031 --> 00:20:55,384 - No. No, I don't think the graphicness is the point. 464 00:20:55,427 --> 00:20:57,603 The issue is getting people involved 465 00:20:57,647 --> 00:20:59,170 and then making them jump. 466 00:20:59,213 --> 00:21:01,172 It's got to be a roller coaster ride. 467 00:21:01,215 --> 00:21:02,782 You've got to deliver. 468 00:21:02,826 --> 00:21:04,480 If people put down the seven bucks to see the movie 469 00:21:04,523 --> 00:21:06,220 and they'll seeing a horror movie, 470 00:21:06,264 --> 00:21:07,570 they don't want to see "Little Mermaid." 471 00:21:07,613 --> 00:21:10,399 [Kirsty, Julia, and Frank scream] 472 00:21:10,442 --> 00:21:14,185 - [Announcer] "Hellraiser:" Satan's done waitin'! 473 00:21:14,228 --> 00:21:15,447 - When "Hellraiser" came about, 474 00:21:15,491 --> 00:21:17,101 I remember being freaked out 475 00:21:17,144 --> 00:21:19,495 because it was something I never seen in horror before. 476 00:21:19,538 --> 00:21:22,193 I mean, it was a brand new character, a whole new concept. 477 00:21:22,236 --> 00:21:23,455 There was something about Pinhead, 478 00:21:23,499 --> 00:21:25,022 just the coldness of him 479 00:21:25,065 --> 00:21:26,980 and that was more eerie than anything. 480 00:21:27,024 --> 00:21:29,374 - You just heard people talking about it. There was a buzz. 481 00:21:29,418 --> 00:21:32,203 They were like, "Oh my God, it's so satanic and crazy." 482 00:21:32,246 --> 00:21:33,552 And so I just knew, I was like, 483 00:21:33,596 --> 00:21:36,381 "This is a different kind of horror movie." 484 00:21:36,425 --> 00:21:39,515 - Clive Barker did bring this sadomasochistic vibe to horror 485 00:21:39,558 --> 00:21:40,951 and didn't hide it, 486 00:21:40,994 --> 00:21:42,822 celebrating through Pinhead the mixture 487 00:21:42,866 --> 00:21:44,346 of pleasure and pain. 488 00:21:44,389 --> 00:21:48,219 - Leather and straps and chains and flayed flesh 489 00:21:48,262 --> 00:21:49,786 and nipples hanging out. 490 00:21:49,829 --> 00:21:52,223 It was like, "Oh my God, that's fuckin' gnarly." 491 00:21:52,266 --> 00:21:54,312 - Plus, they had British accents, so that's sexy as fuck. 492 00:21:54,356 --> 00:21:57,054 - Oh, yes! - "Hellraiser" is the horniest 493 00:21:57,097 --> 00:21:59,404 slasher franchise you will ever see. 494 00:21:59,448 --> 00:22:02,755 Clive Barker is a man who likes 495 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:05,105 to keep his kinks on his sleeve. 496 00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:07,891 He likes to let you know what he's feeling 497 00:22:07,934 --> 00:22:10,284 and he's telling you that you're probably into it too. 498 00:22:10,328 --> 00:22:11,285 You just don't know it yet. 499 00:22:11,329 --> 00:22:13,157 - I was a little turned on. 500 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,421 I was like, "Okay, this is kind of cool. Good look, man. 501 00:22:16,465 --> 00:22:18,554 That's bold, kind of terrifying, 502 00:22:18,597 --> 00:22:20,077 what you do with the chains." 503 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,384 [chains rattle] [Frank groans] 504 00:22:22,427 --> 00:22:25,430 - He offers you something that sounds seductive. 505 00:22:25,474 --> 00:22:28,607 - We have such sights to show you! 506 00:22:28,651 --> 00:22:29,565 - What is that going to be? 507 00:22:29,608 --> 00:22:31,175 - Taste our pleasures. 508 00:22:31,218 --> 00:22:33,438 - And Frank gets ripped apart at the end. 509 00:22:33,482 --> 00:22:35,875 So, what he's offering you is awful. 510 00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:38,878 - The image of Pinhead and the surrounding Cenobites 511 00:22:38,922 --> 00:22:41,664 and the mystery around what they want is something 512 00:22:41,707 --> 00:22:43,753 that can continue to haunt you over time. 513 00:22:43,796 --> 00:22:45,058 They're intriguing. 514 00:22:45,102 --> 00:22:46,451 They're hard to get your head wrapped around. 515 00:22:46,495 --> 00:22:50,281 They're both inviting, but also terrifying. 516 00:22:50,324 --> 00:22:52,022 There's a glamorous element to them. 517 00:22:52,065 --> 00:22:54,590 But, there's also something repulsive about them. 518 00:22:54,633 --> 00:22:56,243 There's always this irony. 519 00:22:56,287 --> 00:22:59,856 When Pinhead says "We have such sights to show you," 520 00:22:59,899 --> 00:23:00,683 he means it. 521 00:23:02,424 --> 00:23:05,992 Sometimes an idea persists because it provokes us 522 00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:09,169 in strange ways, both alluring and terrifying, 523 00:23:09,213 --> 00:23:11,911 and we never really make peace with it 524 00:23:11,955 --> 00:23:15,088 and I think the Cenobites have the power to do that 525 00:23:15,132 --> 00:23:18,396 in a way that none of the other eighties icons do. 526 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,181 - It just grabbed you. Like, "This is unbelievable!" 527 00:23:21,225 --> 00:23:22,400 They knew what they were doing though. 528 00:23:22,444 --> 00:23:23,619 That's why people were flocking to it. 529 00:23:23,662 --> 00:23:25,316 That's why I was such a huge success. 530 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,665 - By the time "Hellraiser" comes out 531 00:23:26,709 --> 00:23:28,275 at the end of the eighties, 532 00:23:28,319 --> 00:23:29,886 we've already had a decade full of slasher movies. 533 00:23:29,929 --> 00:23:31,409 So, in some ways, 534 00:23:31,453 --> 00:23:34,499 it makes sense that "Hellraiser" grabbed audiences 535 00:23:34,543 --> 00:23:36,370 because, on the outside, 536 00:23:36,414 --> 00:23:38,460 it looks like another one of these 537 00:23:38,503 --> 00:23:41,332 until you get into the movie and dig into the story 538 00:23:41,375 --> 00:23:43,682 and realize it's the antithesis of it. 539 00:23:43,726 --> 00:23:45,423 - He took the slasher format 540 00:23:45,467 --> 00:23:47,991 and then he dropped pure Gothic horror 541 00:23:48,034 --> 00:23:51,821 into the middle of it and the Cenobites are out of time. 542 00:23:51,864 --> 00:23:53,953 They don't belong in the 1980s. 543 00:23:53,997 --> 00:23:57,740 I think it's a really clever balance that Clive found was 544 00:23:57,783 --> 00:24:02,005 to embrace what was current in 1980s era 545 00:24:02,048 --> 00:24:04,181 and then subvert it. 546 00:24:04,224 --> 00:24:06,662 - I think part of what it did 547 00:24:06,705 --> 00:24:11,536 and why it was executed so well is that the whole landscape 548 00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:13,233 of the eighties handled sexuality 549 00:24:13,277 --> 00:24:15,801 as something to be forbidden. 550 00:24:15,845 --> 00:24:18,630 The whole notion of if you have sex you die. 551 00:24:18,674 --> 00:24:19,892 And "Hellraiser's" like, 552 00:24:19,936 --> 00:24:22,155 "It is way more complicated than that. 553 00:24:22,199 --> 00:24:23,809 If you have sex, you may die. 554 00:24:23,853 --> 00:24:25,115 But, if you have sex, 555 00:24:25,158 --> 00:24:26,856 all these other things could happen too." 556 00:24:26,899 --> 00:24:29,467 [Julia screams] [hammer thuds] 557 00:24:29,511 --> 00:24:31,904 [monster groans] 558 00:24:31,948 --> 00:24:33,906 [Frank yells] [Kristy screams] 559 00:24:33,950 --> 00:24:38,302 - Jesus wept. [dramatic music] 560 00:24:38,345 --> 00:24:40,652 - None of us, apart from Clive and the producers, 561 00:24:40,696 --> 00:24:43,176 ever thought that this was going to see the light of day. 562 00:24:43,220 --> 00:24:45,744 The following year, when I happened to be in New York, 563 00:24:45,788 --> 00:24:47,833 when "Hellraiser" was released 564 00:24:47,877 --> 00:24:50,053 and walkin' through Times Square 565 00:24:50,096 --> 00:24:52,272 and seeing Doug on big billboards 566 00:24:52,316 --> 00:24:53,535 and that was when it hit me. 567 00:24:53,578 --> 00:24:55,232 [gentle music] 568 00:24:55,275 --> 00:24:57,495 - It was a little film with no money 569 00:24:57,539 --> 00:25:00,280 and when we saw the reviews coming out 570 00:25:00,324 --> 00:25:03,022 and what people were saying about some tarty, 571 00:25:03,066 --> 00:25:06,112 little cheap horror flick that it could have been 572 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:08,375 had it just disappeared straight onto video 573 00:25:08,419 --> 00:25:10,508 that we realized that there was something bigger there, 574 00:25:10,552 --> 00:25:12,075 which was nice. 575 00:25:12,118 --> 00:25:14,599 - My first convention I had no idea what to expect. 576 00:25:14,643 --> 00:25:17,950 It took me a good 20 minutes or more just 577 00:25:17,994 --> 00:25:20,300 to get into the elevator because, 578 00:25:20,344 --> 00:25:24,130 for the first time in my life, I was surrounded. 579 00:25:24,174 --> 00:25:25,349 "Mr. Bradley, Mr. Bradley, 580 00:25:25,392 --> 00:25:27,046 could I had my picture taken with you? 581 00:25:27,090 --> 00:25:28,700 Would you sign this?" 582 00:25:28,744 --> 00:25:33,270 I had no idea until that moment that this thing was rolling 583 00:25:34,576 --> 00:25:38,057 and growing out there in horror fandom. 584 00:25:38,101 --> 00:25:40,407 [man screams] 585 00:25:40,451 --> 00:25:43,628 - [Announcer] Last year, they brought Hell to earth! 586 00:25:43,672 --> 00:25:48,285 - No! [dramatic music] 587 00:25:48,328 --> 00:25:51,984 - [Announcer] "Hellbound: Hellraiser II." Time to play. 588 00:25:55,205 --> 00:25:57,642 - We were midway through shooting "Hellraiser" 589 00:25:57,686 --> 00:25:59,992 when there started to be a lot of talk 590 00:26:00,036 --> 00:26:02,865 about New World wanted a sequel. 591 00:26:02,908 --> 00:26:06,216 Once you get into sequels, that begins to dilute. 592 00:26:06,259 --> 00:26:08,653 It's absolutely inevitable because you have 593 00:26:08,697 --> 00:26:10,916 to start telling the backstory. 594 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,617 We want to know and I think, as creators, we want to share. 595 00:26:17,227 --> 00:26:19,490 So, right at the beginning of "Hellbound," 596 00:26:19,533 --> 00:26:23,712 Clive starts putting in a little bit of the back story. 597 00:26:23,755 --> 00:26:26,628 the opening sequence of "Hellbound" is entirely 598 00:26:26,671 --> 00:26:28,499 about Pinhead's origins. 599 00:26:29,543 --> 00:26:31,720 [Pinhead yells] 600 00:26:31,763 --> 00:26:34,331 - Finding out that he used to be a British soldier 601 00:26:34,374 --> 00:26:36,420 that eventually became this person 602 00:26:36,463 --> 00:26:40,554 and then he recognizes that he was human at some point- 603 00:26:40,598 --> 00:26:43,166 - What is this? - Really opens up a door of, 604 00:26:45,211 --> 00:26:47,779 how self-aware are these Cenobites? 605 00:26:47,823 --> 00:26:48,606 - Wait! 606 00:26:50,477 --> 00:26:53,089 I remember. 607 00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:56,527 - I'm more scared of villains 608 00:26:56,570 --> 00:27:00,052 that are hard to explain, right? 609 00:27:00,096 --> 00:27:03,534 Once you give a backstory to someone, 610 00:27:03,577 --> 00:27:05,144 they become more human, 611 00:27:05,188 --> 00:27:08,017 and, in fact, you can end up sympathizing with them. 612 00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:10,715 [electronic crackling] 613 00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:12,325 - Sequels are very hard. 614 00:27:12,369 --> 00:27:16,155 I think you make a picture which has some real originality 615 00:27:16,199 --> 00:27:19,506 in the marketplace you're going to get kicked hard 616 00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:20,899 on the second picture. 617 00:27:20,943 --> 00:27:22,335 [lightning cracks] - Our next movie is 618 00:27:22,379 --> 00:27:24,033 "Hellbound: Hellraiser II." 619 00:27:24,076 --> 00:27:26,731 The problem here is that there was no discernible beginning, 620 00:27:26,775 --> 00:27:28,341 middle, or end to this nightmare, 621 00:27:28,385 --> 00:27:31,170 just a series of disconnected and gruesome scenes. 622 00:27:31,214 --> 00:27:32,432 - I want to focus on one word 623 00:27:32,476 --> 00:27:33,956 that you mentioned, which is gruesome. 624 00:27:33,999 --> 00:27:36,654 I mean, this film could be actually titled "Skinned Alive." 625 00:27:36,698 --> 00:27:37,786 - The second film's a great film. 626 00:27:37,829 --> 00:27:38,961 It's a very different kind of film. 627 00:27:39,004 --> 00:27:40,092 [Tiffany screams] 628 00:27:40,136 --> 00:27:41,746 But, it opens up the universe. 629 00:27:41,790 --> 00:27:44,314 It gives us a maze-like Hell, which is really fantastic. 630 00:27:44,357 --> 00:27:46,751 - "Hellraiser II" is actually my favorite, "Hellbound." 631 00:27:46,795 --> 00:27:48,231 I like it even more than the first one 632 00:27:48,274 --> 00:27:49,885 because it really takes the mythology 633 00:27:49,928 --> 00:27:51,800 into new and interesting places. 634 00:27:51,843 --> 00:27:54,585 It has these incredibly powerful images. 635 00:27:54,628 --> 00:27:56,630 The shot of the skinless Julia, 636 00:27:56,674 --> 00:27:59,677 bright red blood standing in this white room is 637 00:27:59,721 --> 00:28:02,114 one of the greatest images, I think, in horror. 638 00:28:02,158 --> 00:28:03,463 [Julia screams] [glass shatters] 639 00:28:03,507 --> 00:28:04,856 It takes the material to even more interesting 640 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:06,858 and powerful and scary places. 641 00:28:06,902 --> 00:28:09,687 - It's so good to be back. 642 00:28:09,731 --> 00:28:13,256 - [Announcer] "Clive Barker Presents: Hellraiser III: 643 00:28:13,299 --> 00:28:14,866 Hell on Earth!" 644 00:28:14,910 --> 00:28:16,433 - Three becomes playful fun. 645 00:28:16,476 --> 00:28:18,914 Three does what probably part four of "Nightmare" does 646 00:28:18,957 --> 00:28:19,871 in a lot of ways. 647 00:28:19,915 --> 00:28:21,525 It makes it a little more poppy. 648 00:28:21,568 --> 00:28:26,269 - Ah, more friends come to play with you, Joey. 649 00:28:27,313 --> 00:28:28,532 - Play with this, Pinhead! 650 00:28:28,575 --> 00:28:30,664 - That's the one where they kind of tried 651 00:28:30,708 --> 00:28:35,104 to turn him into a sort of Freddy-type jokester, killer guy. 652 00:28:35,147 --> 00:28:37,236 [Pinhead laughs] [chains rattle] 653 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,761 [people groan] 654 00:28:41,458 --> 00:28:44,287 - Pinhead's conceptual origins were left behind 655 00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:46,071 and they started to transform him 656 00:28:46,115 --> 00:28:50,380 into a wise cracking villain, 657 00:28:50,423 --> 00:28:54,471 sort of this late phase amalgamation of Freddy. 658 00:28:54,514 --> 00:28:57,082 It starts losing its way. 659 00:28:57,126 --> 00:29:00,042 - It became kind of a bigger studio movie 660 00:29:00,085 --> 00:29:04,829 where you feel the producer is trying to extract 661 00:29:04,873 --> 00:29:07,353 that we want Freddy Krueger. 662 00:29:07,397 --> 00:29:10,008 - Jesus Christ! - Not quite. 663 00:29:10,052 --> 00:29:12,576 - Can we make pinhead create more Cenobites? 664 00:29:12,619 --> 00:29:17,276 One, maybe, maybe one's got CDs in his head. CDs! 665 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,583 [mechanical whirring] 666 00:29:19,626 --> 00:29:22,455 [CD thuds] [police officer groans] 667 00:29:22,499 --> 00:29:25,023 And you're like, "Fuck off!" Like, "What is that?" 668 00:29:25,067 --> 00:29:27,025 You could just feel the studio notes 669 00:29:27,069 --> 00:29:28,984 coming into "Hellraiser III." 670 00:29:29,027 --> 00:29:30,550 - If I was going to be a Cenobite, 671 00:29:30,594 --> 00:29:32,509 I want to be the Cenobite that had all the DVDs. 672 00:29:32,552 --> 00:29:33,727 - Get it! - I think it was 673 00:29:33,771 --> 00:29:34,859 a bunch of CDs. - "Hellraiser III," man! 674 00:29:34,903 --> 00:29:36,078 - But, yeah, that was pretty cool! 675 00:29:36,121 --> 00:29:37,383 I do- - You have have any problems 676 00:29:37,427 --> 00:29:38,689 with "Hellraiser III" this is another warning. 677 00:29:38,732 --> 00:29:39,733 If you have any problems with "Hellraiser III," 678 00:29:39,777 --> 00:29:41,866 I'm going to come to your house! 679 00:29:41,910 --> 00:29:43,259 - Clive Barker- - I will physically 680 00:29:43,302 --> 00:29:44,695 fight people that dislike "Hellraiser III." 681 00:29:44,738 --> 00:29:45,609 I love that film! 682 00:29:45,652 --> 00:29:46,915 - I love that movie! 683 00:29:46,958 --> 00:29:48,133 It's not one that a lot of people love. 684 00:29:48,177 --> 00:29:49,439 But, I love part three. 685 00:29:49,482 --> 00:29:50,962 [fire crackles] [people scream] 686 00:29:51,006 --> 00:29:53,356 [explosions] 687 00:29:55,924 --> 00:29:57,403 In that, for some reason, 688 00:29:57,447 --> 00:29:59,928 the camera crew becomes camera crew Cenobites. 689 00:29:59,971 --> 00:30:01,668 - That's a wrap. 690 00:30:01,712 --> 00:30:04,889 - It made for really interesting, fascinating, fun movie. 691 00:30:04,933 --> 00:30:05,847 - The first "Hellraiser" movie 692 00:30:05,890 --> 00:30:08,501 I ever saw was "Hellraiser III." 693 00:30:08,545 --> 00:30:11,461 Clive was not anticipating that Pinhead would become 694 00:30:11,504 --> 00:30:13,419 an icon in the way we look at Jason 695 00:30:13,463 --> 00:30:15,334 and Freddy and Michael Myers. 696 00:30:15,378 --> 00:30:16,988 So, I think some of that was born out of the idea 697 00:30:17,032 --> 00:30:18,120 that the film was successful 698 00:30:18,163 --> 00:30:19,599 and captured people's imaginations 699 00:30:19,643 --> 00:30:20,687 and that's how we understood 700 00:30:20,731 --> 00:30:22,994 our horror villains at the time. 701 00:30:23,038 --> 00:30:24,691 - It's really important that we understand 702 00:30:24,735 --> 00:30:27,477 that these monsters are actually very attractive to us. 703 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,914 These monsters are very powerful figures. 704 00:30:29,958 --> 00:30:32,482 They're creatures who have powers that maybe we want. 705 00:30:32,525 --> 00:30:33,744 There's a part of us that actually wants 706 00:30:33,787 --> 00:30:35,311 to be these monsters. 707 00:30:35,354 --> 00:30:37,617 - A powerful horror icon is like a meme 708 00:30:37,661 --> 00:30:39,054 that's born on the internet. 709 00:30:39,097 --> 00:30:40,707 You never know what's going 710 00:30:40,751 --> 00:30:42,318 to capture the audience's imaginations and persist. 711 00:30:44,059 --> 00:30:45,799 - Oh, hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried! 712 00:30:45,843 --> 00:30:48,019 Join me and him! - You think your nighttime 713 00:30:48,063 --> 00:30:49,760 world is closed to me? 714 00:30:49,803 --> 00:30:50,804 - For "Hellraiser III!" 715 00:30:52,023 --> 00:30:54,286 - And you are? 716 00:30:54,330 --> 00:30:56,462 - Those who know me call me Pinhead. 717 00:30:57,942 --> 00:31:00,727 - Okay, let me take a look see at the list. 718 00:31:00,771 --> 00:31:03,817 Hmm, no Pinhead. Could is be under Nailhead? 719 00:31:03,861 --> 00:31:07,909 - Just let me in or I'll tear your soul apart! 720 00:31:07,952 --> 00:31:09,736 - The little filmed inserts they used to do 721 00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:13,044 with David Spade, famous people on the list couldn't get in. 722 00:31:13,088 --> 00:31:14,654 And that year it was me, 723 00:31:14,698 --> 00:31:18,702 Andrew Dice Clay, Roseanne, and Ringo Starr. 724 00:31:18,745 --> 00:31:21,923 I was born and raised in Liverpool in the 1960s 725 00:31:21,966 --> 00:31:24,534 and I got out of the limo and the PR girl said, 726 00:31:24,577 --> 00:31:26,536 "Oh, it's a pleasure to have you here. 727 00:31:26,579 --> 00:31:29,234 If you could come this way and just into the auditorium." 728 00:31:29,278 --> 00:31:32,498 And I went around the corner and Ringo had his back to me, 729 00:31:32,542 --> 00:31:34,370 talking to some guys and one of them went. 730 00:31:35,806 --> 00:31:38,243 Ringo turned around and looked at me and went, 731 00:31:38,287 --> 00:31:40,289 "Hey, it's Pinhead!" 732 00:31:43,248 --> 00:31:45,816 - Because of the saturation of Pinhead and "Hellraiser," 733 00:31:45,859 --> 00:31:49,385 the third installment did so well, that's how we got a four. 734 00:31:49,428 --> 00:31:50,560 [people scream] 735 00:31:50,603 --> 00:31:52,214 - Oh my God! 736 00:31:52,257 --> 00:31:55,652 - Do I look like someone who cares what God thinks? 737 00:31:55,695 --> 00:31:57,741 - I did direct part four. 738 00:31:57,784 --> 00:31:59,786 First of all, I didn't want to do it because I thought, 739 00:31:59,830 --> 00:32:02,659 "What am I going to bring to this? It's 'Hellraiser' four." 740 00:32:02,702 --> 00:32:04,008 But, what I loved about it is 741 00:32:04,052 --> 00:32:06,619 that it showed how the box was first created 742 00:32:06,663 --> 00:32:08,447 that brings hell to us 743 00:32:08,491 --> 00:32:11,494 and it went through 16th century France to modern day, 744 00:32:11,537 --> 00:32:15,019 all the way into space, into the future, and I love that. 745 00:32:15,063 --> 00:32:16,586 I love the, the history and the arc 746 00:32:16,629 --> 00:32:17,979 and I thought, "Well, this is something interesting 747 00:32:18,022 --> 00:32:19,806 'cause the fans will really appreciate that, 748 00:32:19,850 --> 00:32:21,983 to see the whole history of how this all started." 749 00:32:22,026 --> 00:32:24,463 - I don't think it's jumping the shark quite yet 750 00:32:24,507 --> 00:32:26,509 'cause the idea of the space is actually pretty good. 751 00:32:26,552 --> 00:32:28,206 - The sequels onward, they're kind 752 00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:30,339 of a mixed bag of interesting ideas. 753 00:32:30,382 --> 00:32:31,862 You had Scott Derrickson direct one 754 00:32:31,905 --> 00:32:33,429 and Scott's doing great movies now 755 00:32:33,472 --> 00:32:36,388 and then he tried to make his sequel 756 00:32:36,432 --> 00:32:38,347 a little bit more esoteric and Faustian 757 00:32:38,390 --> 00:32:39,348 and I thought that was really cool. 758 00:32:39,391 --> 00:32:41,393 - What are you? 759 00:32:41,437 --> 00:32:46,181 - What I am, who I am, is no concern of yours. 760 00:32:47,573 --> 00:32:48,792 - When you get to the other sequels, 761 00:32:48,835 --> 00:32:50,315 the ones that went straight-to-video, 762 00:32:50,359 --> 00:32:53,579 it was really a matter of Dimension taking scripts 763 00:32:53,623 --> 00:32:56,017 that they had in development and saying, "Well, 764 00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:57,235 we'll put Pinhead in here 765 00:32:57,279 --> 00:32:58,845 and make this a 'Hellraiser' sequel" 766 00:32:58,889 --> 00:33:00,891 to varying levels of success. 767 00:33:00,934 --> 00:33:03,024 - They're trying to split the difference basically between 768 00:33:03,067 --> 00:33:07,071 that sort of horror icon/horror hero expectation 769 00:33:07,115 --> 00:33:08,899 and what the series actually was, 770 00:33:08,942 --> 00:33:10,074 which is nothing like that. 771 00:33:11,858 --> 00:33:13,817 But, he's just too cool looking of a character. 772 00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:15,732 You can't background him for too long. 773 00:33:15,775 --> 00:33:17,081 You got to use him. 774 00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:18,474 - I cannot die. 775 00:33:19,910 --> 00:33:21,912 I am forever. 776 00:33:24,697 --> 00:33:28,049 - What you start seeing is companies have to make a film, 777 00:33:28,092 --> 00:33:30,703 in this case every year, to not lose the rights. 778 00:33:30,747 --> 00:33:32,705 As soon as you do something like you take a script 779 00:33:32,749 --> 00:33:34,968 that wasn't written as a "Hellraiser" movie, 780 00:33:35,012 --> 00:33:36,405 there's no way you're going to be able to keep 781 00:33:36,448 --> 00:33:37,580 that continuity of that character. 782 00:33:37,623 --> 00:33:38,755 It's going to start falling apart. 783 00:33:38,798 --> 00:33:41,062 - Here we go. [chains rattle] 784 00:33:41,105 --> 00:33:44,891 - [Pinhead] You opened it, summoned us, and we came. 785 00:33:44,935 --> 00:33:46,154 [dramatic music] 786 00:33:46,197 --> 00:33:47,720 - The one everybody hates the most, 787 00:33:47,764 --> 00:33:49,461 and probably rightfully so, 788 00:33:49,505 --> 00:33:51,811 the first one that was not Doug Bradley. 789 00:33:51,855 --> 00:33:55,250 The movie itself kind of tapped into the same kind 790 00:33:55,293 --> 00:33:57,643 of themes that the originals had. 791 00:33:57,687 --> 00:33:59,210 But, it was made in a week or something 792 00:33:59,254 --> 00:34:00,951 to hold onto the rights. 793 00:34:00,994 --> 00:34:03,910 If they had done that legitimately, 794 00:34:03,954 --> 00:34:06,522 I think people would really have responded to it. 795 00:34:06,565 --> 00:34:08,872 But, unfortunately the way it was made, 796 00:34:08,915 --> 00:34:10,874 you can't really defend it, you know? 797 00:34:10,917 --> 00:34:12,397 - That was the point where you really felt 798 00:34:12,441 --> 00:34:14,399 the series was kind of running on fumes is 799 00:34:14,443 --> 00:34:17,359 when they couldn't even get Pinhead's proper actor 800 00:34:17,402 --> 00:34:18,664 back into the part. 801 00:34:18,708 --> 00:34:20,318 It just kind of seemed like desperation. 802 00:34:20,362 --> 00:34:22,973 - "Hellraiser" has the similar problem 803 00:34:23,016 --> 00:34:24,148 of "A Nightmare on Elm Street." 804 00:34:24,192 --> 00:34:27,543 The series kind of pivots and takes a turn. 805 00:34:27,586 --> 00:34:28,935 [nail run rattles] 806 00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:31,547 I do think you need the sequels to become iconic 807 00:34:31,590 --> 00:34:34,332 and the sequels are important to the iconography 808 00:34:34,376 --> 00:34:36,595 of these characters and these worlds. 809 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:41,426 But, when you don't deliver and when you're a sequel 810 00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:45,126 that maybe doesn't live up to expectations, 811 00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:49,521 it can really feel like a betrayal to the fan base. 812 00:34:49,565 --> 00:34:52,742 - It's frustrating to me, uniquely this franchise, 813 00:34:52,785 --> 00:34:55,919 because I love that first film so much. 814 00:34:55,962 --> 00:34:59,140 It's one of my favorite horror movies and it's just one 815 00:34:59,183 --> 00:35:02,186 of my least favorite franchises to revisit. 816 00:35:02,230 --> 00:35:04,536 I don't go back to the sequels often 817 00:35:04,580 --> 00:35:07,017 because there's no vision. 818 00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:08,453 There's no cohesion. 819 00:35:08,497 --> 00:35:10,281 - They were not particularly made with the love 820 00:35:10,325 --> 00:35:12,196 and tender care that we lavished on the first two. 821 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,937 - There's no question about that. 822 00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:18,724 It's just how you handle it and you are always as a, 823 00:35:18,768 --> 00:35:20,335 and certainly for me as an actor, 824 00:35:20,378 --> 00:35:22,989 because Clive was having less to do with the franchise 825 00:35:23,033 --> 00:35:27,429 as it developed, I was at the mercy of executives 826 00:35:29,257 --> 00:35:33,957 who can't always be relied upon to make the right decisions. 827 00:35:35,263 --> 00:35:38,701 Can I leave it diplomatically there? 828 00:35:38,744 --> 00:35:39,919 - That doesn't mean that those movies 829 00:35:39,963 --> 00:35:41,225 aren't delicious in their way. 830 00:35:41,269 --> 00:35:43,488 I love the idea of Pinhead in space. 831 00:35:43,532 --> 00:35:44,968 - The Garden of Eden, 832 00:35:47,927 --> 00:35:49,102 a garden of flesh. 833 00:35:52,062 --> 00:35:53,759 - Pinhead in a neo-noir movie. 834 00:35:53,803 --> 00:35:56,893 - Your flesh is killing your spirit. 835 00:35:58,590 --> 00:36:01,027 - No! [dramatic music] 836 00:36:01,071 --> 00:36:03,160 - Pinhead on the internet. 837 00:36:03,204 --> 00:36:06,076 - [Pinhead] The box, you opened it. We came. 838 00:36:07,338 --> 00:36:09,384 - But, is that the Pinhead that Uncle Frank 839 00:36:09,427 --> 00:36:12,648 initially called out of the box? 840 00:36:12,691 --> 00:36:14,215 I don't think so. 841 00:36:14,258 --> 00:36:16,521 But, what is a film franchise if not something 842 00:36:16,565 --> 00:36:18,567 that we go on a journey? 843 00:36:18,610 --> 00:36:22,614 [Frank yells in pain] 844 00:36:22,658 --> 00:36:23,963 - Unfortunately, of all the films, 845 00:36:24,007 --> 00:36:26,966 that's the character who's had the hardest go 846 00:36:27,010 --> 00:36:29,534 of creative continuity and, 847 00:36:29,578 --> 00:36:32,842 once you go to space, it is hard to come back. 848 00:36:32,885 --> 00:36:34,974 - I cannot die! 849 00:36:35,018 --> 00:36:37,847 [Pinhead yells] [Pinhead thuds] 850 00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:40,110 [explosion] 851 00:36:41,633 --> 00:36:43,069 - There, at this point in time, 852 00:36:43,113 --> 00:36:46,812 have been several other versions of Pinhead. 853 00:36:46,856 --> 00:36:50,512 But, we, as fans, keep returning to Doug Bradley 854 00:36:50,555 --> 00:36:52,905 and keep saying, "That's the best one. 855 00:36:52,949 --> 00:36:57,519 That is the performance that made Pinhead iconic." 856 00:36:57,562 --> 00:36:59,738 Much like we will always look at Bela Lugosi 857 00:36:59,782 --> 00:37:02,045 and say, "That's Dracula." 858 00:37:02,088 --> 00:37:04,700 That is what Doug Bradley did to Pinhead. 859 00:37:04,743 --> 00:37:06,528 - I have to have a sense of humor about it. 860 00:37:06,571 --> 00:37:09,922 It's a movie. This is a fictional character. 861 00:37:09,966 --> 00:37:11,750 - I have nothing to fear 862 00:37:11,794 --> 00:37:13,970 - I know Doug Bradley is the original Pinhead 863 00:37:14,013 --> 00:37:16,320 and I respect that completely. 864 00:37:16,364 --> 00:37:18,104 It's a movie role. I got the part. 865 00:37:18,148 --> 00:37:21,282 I played the part and I'm thrilled that I got to do it. 866 00:37:21,325 --> 00:37:22,979 It's the coolest thing that's ever happened to me. 867 00:37:23,022 --> 00:37:25,024 That's all I can really say. 868 00:37:25,068 --> 00:37:27,418 Playing this character, it was the coolest thing 869 00:37:27,462 --> 00:37:29,072 that's ever happened to me! 870 00:37:29,115 --> 00:37:32,118 - It's unfair to say that no one else can play Pinhead. 871 00:37:32,162 --> 00:37:35,121 There are plenty of great movie characters 872 00:37:35,165 --> 00:37:36,688 that have been played by different people. 873 00:37:36,732 --> 00:37:38,864 But, Doug Bradley is Pinhead. 874 00:37:38,908 --> 00:37:41,084 Whether we want that to be true or not, 875 00:37:41,127 --> 00:37:44,653 whether he's replaced again in a reboot or something, 876 00:37:44,696 --> 00:37:47,133 he's always going to be that character for most people 877 00:37:47,177 --> 00:37:50,267 because the way he talked, the way he held himself, 878 00:37:50,311 --> 00:37:53,879 the imagery that he evoked in that role is iconic. 879 00:37:54,837 --> 00:37:58,884 - Kirsty, we meet again. 880 00:37:59,885 --> 00:38:01,800 - How did you find me? 881 00:38:01,844 --> 00:38:05,413 - You opened a door long ago and it will not 882 00:38:05,456 --> 00:38:07,937 be closed until I get what I came for. 883 00:38:08,851 --> 00:38:09,808 [Kirsty gasps] 884 00:38:09,852 --> 00:38:11,375 - My soul. 885 00:38:11,419 --> 00:38:14,900 - It's been a journey watching how the image 886 00:38:14,944 --> 00:38:17,947 of Pinhead has taken on a life of its own. 887 00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:19,905 There are people who've never seen "Hellraiser" 888 00:38:19,949 --> 00:38:22,995 who know Pinhead and know that image. 889 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:25,520 Even by the end of the eighties, 890 00:38:26,956 --> 00:38:31,439 Screamin' already had a big Pinhead doll out. 891 00:38:33,397 --> 00:38:34,267 - [Announcer #2] Congratulations, you have just purchased 892 00:38:34,311 --> 00:38:35,834 Clive Barker's Pinhead Cenobite. 893 00:38:35,878 --> 00:38:38,446 This museum quality reproduction is designed 894 00:38:38,489 --> 00:38:40,839 for the serious collector of the bizarre. 895 00:38:40,883 --> 00:38:43,929 Please follow the assembly instructions carefully. 896 00:38:43,973 --> 00:38:47,411 - I think that Pinhead stuck in the minds 897 00:38:47,455 --> 00:38:49,935 of the pop culture for a couple reasons. 898 00:38:49,979 --> 00:38:51,241 The first of which, of course, 899 00:38:51,284 --> 00:38:53,809 is that amazing character design. 900 00:38:53,852 --> 00:38:57,421 - [Announcer #2] Ah, yes, the crown of painful pins. 901 00:38:57,465 --> 00:39:00,598 Insert these in areas indicated. 902 00:39:00,642 --> 00:39:02,774 - Not just the pins in the head, 903 00:39:02,818 --> 00:39:04,776 but sort of the flayed chest, 904 00:39:04,820 --> 00:39:06,648 this BDSM sort of appearance 905 00:39:06,691 --> 00:39:09,172 that you never see in mainstream cinema. 906 00:39:09,215 --> 00:39:11,217 - [Announcer #2] Paint all vestments black, 907 00:39:11,261 --> 00:39:13,611 including cassock, rope, and [indistinct]. 908 00:39:13,655 --> 00:39:17,789 Open wounds, bloody crimson, torture tools, 909 00:39:17,833 --> 00:39:19,965 paint and hang as designed. 910 00:39:20,009 --> 00:39:21,402 Your model is now complete. 911 00:39:23,099 --> 00:39:25,275 - If you rented "Hellraiser" in the eighties, 912 00:39:25,318 --> 00:39:26,668 at the end of the credits, 913 00:39:26,711 --> 00:39:29,627 there was a "Hellraiser" commercial 914 00:39:29,671 --> 00:39:31,499 for "Hellraiser" merchandise. 915 00:39:31,542 --> 00:39:34,371 - [Announcer #3] Stay chained to the screen 916 00:39:34,415 --> 00:39:36,591 'cause here's what we have for you. 917 00:39:37,896 --> 00:39:40,943 Get hooked on a "Hellraiser" T-shirt, 918 00:39:40,986 --> 00:39:43,336 "Hellraiser" baseball caps, 919 00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:47,602 one size fits all, even Pinheads. 920 00:39:47,645 --> 00:39:51,344 - It was like, "If you want to raise hell at the library, 921 00:39:51,388 --> 00:39:53,869 get this 'Hellraiser' tote bag." 922 00:39:56,045 --> 00:39:57,220 That's really what's staying 923 00:39:57,263 --> 00:39:59,527 with me is the "Hellraiser" commercial. 924 00:39:59,570 --> 00:40:02,094 - Did they ever make a "Hellraiser" pincushion? 925 00:40:02,138 --> 00:40:04,183 - I have a Pinhead Yoda at home. 926 00:40:04,227 --> 00:40:06,708 I have a Pinhead Winnie the Pooh. 927 00:40:06,751 --> 00:40:09,493 Pinhead My Little Ponies seem to be popular. 928 00:40:09,537 --> 00:40:11,843 Pinhead babies are very popular. 929 00:40:11,887 --> 00:40:13,889 - I got really into the comic books. 930 00:40:13,932 --> 00:40:16,674 Epic did this amazing line of "Hellraiser" comics 931 00:40:16,718 --> 00:40:20,330 in the 1990s and they kind of did everything 932 00:40:20,373 --> 00:40:21,853 that I wanted the movies to do, 933 00:40:21,897 --> 00:40:23,942 where they focused on different Cenobites 934 00:40:23,986 --> 00:40:26,902 and different stories and took the Hellraiser mythos to all 935 00:40:26,945 --> 00:40:30,862 of these different locations and they became a huge part 936 00:40:30,906 --> 00:40:32,908 of my adolescent teen years. 937 00:40:32,951 --> 00:40:36,564 - I think it was the fifties and sixties 938 00:40:36,607 --> 00:40:39,567 when the Universal classic monsters became cartoons 939 00:40:39,610 --> 00:40:42,918 and comic books and action figures and model kits. 940 00:40:42,961 --> 00:40:44,485 We've reached that saturation point with all 941 00:40:44,528 --> 00:40:46,965 of the eighties and nineties characters now. 942 00:40:47,009 --> 00:40:48,576 They've become our pals! 943 00:40:48,619 --> 00:40:50,055 - [Announcer #4] Previously on "Big Brother," 944 00:40:50,099 --> 00:40:52,493 a practical joke war resulted in hurt feelings. 945 00:40:54,016 --> 00:40:57,585 Who will be evicted? Find out live tonight! 946 00:40:57,628 --> 00:41:00,718 - I think that characters go from being nightmare fuel 947 00:41:00,762 --> 00:41:04,417 to being comfort food because horror movies, 948 00:41:04,461 --> 00:41:06,724 ultimately, are a distillation 949 00:41:06,768 --> 00:41:08,334 of cultural and societal fears. 950 00:41:08,378 --> 00:41:10,815 What's going on in the moment usually is embodied 951 00:41:10,859 --> 00:41:13,252 in horror cinema and so things 952 00:41:13,296 --> 00:41:16,821 that scared us became the things that we loved. 953 00:41:16,865 --> 00:41:18,867 - Suppose you got a handful of thumbtacks 954 00:41:20,477 --> 00:41:22,305 and you accidentally roll over them like so. 955 00:41:22,348 --> 00:41:26,265 [audience laughs] [Fireman Bill groans] 956 00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:28,703 [audience laughs] Now the fire is out, 957 00:41:28,746 --> 00:41:30,661 but you look like "Hellraiser!" 958 00:41:30,705 --> 00:41:35,448 - I think embracing that is just part of the cycle of horror 959 00:41:37,189 --> 00:41:38,626 because that's part of the fabric of our pop culture. 960 00:41:38,669 --> 00:41:41,454 - We are going to raise more hell than Hellraiser! 961 00:41:41,498 --> 00:41:44,153 - Hey honey, you want some salt for your steak? 962 00:41:44,196 --> 00:41:44,893 - Yeah, sure. 963 00:41:46,590 --> 00:41:49,811 - [laughs] Got ya! That's more salt than you wanted. 964 00:41:49,854 --> 00:41:51,769 - There's a seduction to that character, 965 00:41:51,813 --> 00:41:53,292 even when you're looking at him, 966 00:41:53,336 --> 00:41:56,165 'cause he's wearing sort of leather S&M gear 967 00:41:56,208 --> 00:41:59,124 and that is really seductive and attractive 968 00:41:59,168 --> 00:42:00,604 to a certain kind of person. 969 00:42:00,648 --> 00:42:04,565 - Number three, "Hellraiser." [audience laughs] 970 00:42:04,608 --> 00:42:06,654 - Take those nails out and you've got a hottie. 971 00:42:06,697 --> 00:42:08,090 - And I think that's part of why, 972 00:42:08,133 --> 00:42:09,308 when you look at the character, 973 00:42:09,352 --> 00:42:11,006 you say, "I'm interested in that guy. 974 00:42:11,049 --> 00:42:12,616 I want to know more about that person. 975 00:42:12,660 --> 00:42:14,009 I want him on a t-shirt." 976 00:42:14,052 --> 00:42:16,620 [suspenseful music] [Bart whistles] 977 00:42:16,664 --> 00:42:18,753 [wall thuds] [action music] 978 00:42:18,796 --> 00:42:20,537 [lasers buzz] [Pinhead groans] 979 00:42:20,581 --> 00:42:23,845 [dramatic music] 980 00:42:23,888 --> 00:42:27,413 [swords clank] 981 00:42:27,457 --> 00:42:29,285 - The great thing about a character like that is it, 982 00:42:29,328 --> 00:42:31,330 I feel, it's hardly been explored. 983 00:42:31,374 --> 00:42:32,549 He's been in a lot of movies, 984 00:42:32,593 --> 00:42:33,942 but has hardly really been explored. 985 00:42:33,985 --> 00:42:35,334 I'd be excited for them to find a way 986 00:42:35,378 --> 00:42:37,075 to return to that character. 987 00:42:37,119 --> 00:42:40,470 But, again, it might, at this point, need a radical change. 988 00:42:40,513 --> 00:42:41,471 - I think if you look at the story 989 00:42:41,514 --> 00:42:42,777 of the original "Hellraiser," 990 00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:44,779 it is astounding what they pulled off 991 00:42:44,822 --> 00:42:46,868 for something like a million dollars, 992 00:42:46,911 --> 00:42:51,612 both in terms of design and scope and idea and concept. 993 00:42:51,655 --> 00:42:54,397 I mean, they took us in a direction that we're still trying 994 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,704 to wrap our heads around 35 years later. 995 00:42:56,747 --> 00:43:00,272 It's so rare that someone can actually 996 00:43:00,316 --> 00:43:03,406 show you something new, can give you an impression 997 00:43:03,449 --> 00:43:06,191 of something, a vision of a world, 998 00:43:06,235 --> 00:43:08,890 of a corner of the human psyche 999 00:43:08,933 --> 00:43:12,110 that you haven't quite accessed yet. 1000 00:43:12,154 --> 00:43:14,025 I think that's something the original movie did 1001 00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:16,941 and that the imagery continued to work 1002 00:43:16,985 --> 00:43:19,465 with across the films and you see it inspiring other movies. 1003 00:43:19,509 --> 00:43:21,903 You see countless other tropes throughout horror 1004 00:43:21,946 --> 00:43:23,687 and science fiction that are echoes 1005 00:43:23,731 --> 00:43:25,254 of what was originally done in 1006 00:43:25,297 --> 00:43:28,344 that very contained, million-dollar production. 1007 00:43:28,387 --> 00:43:30,302 [nails whiz through air] [man groans] 1008 00:43:30,346 --> 00:43:31,826 [man thuds] 1009 00:43:31,869 --> 00:43:34,393 - Why does that look so familiar? 1010 00:43:34,437 --> 00:43:36,482 - People want more from this world. 1011 00:43:36,526 --> 00:43:38,267 I want more from this world. 1012 00:43:38,310 --> 00:43:40,965 I want to go deeper inside the puzzle of the box 1013 00:43:41,009 --> 00:43:42,488 and see where it may take us. 1014 00:43:42,532 --> 00:43:44,142 So, I think there's a hunger and there's an energy 1015 00:43:44,186 --> 00:43:46,318 to experiment with that and there's always a risk 1016 00:43:46,362 --> 00:43:48,233 that it won't live up to the original and, 1017 00:43:48,277 --> 00:43:50,496 I think, particularly in this case, it can't. 1018 00:43:50,540 --> 00:43:51,889 It never will. 1019 00:43:51,933 --> 00:43:54,239 But, hopefully, as creators and artists, 1020 00:43:54,283 --> 00:43:57,112 we can find an inspiration 1021 00:43:57,155 --> 00:44:00,419 in what people have done before us and we'll come up 1022 00:44:00,463 --> 00:44:03,074 with something that's a worthy journey to go on. 1023 00:44:03,118 --> 00:44:06,121 - Let us take one final journey together. 1024 00:44:06,164 --> 00:44:10,821 Let me help you remember once and for all. 1025 00:44:10,865 --> 00:44:12,518 - In terms of imagination, it might be one 1026 00:44:12,562 --> 00:44:16,305 of most unparalleled creative imaginations in horror cinema. 1027 00:44:16,348 --> 00:44:19,003 I wish there were more Clive Barker-directed movies 1028 00:44:19,047 --> 00:44:21,049 because he's so wonderful with monsters and characters 1029 00:44:21,092 --> 00:44:23,529 because he didn't view them as other. 1030 00:44:23,573 --> 00:44:24,748 He viewed them as same. 1031 00:44:24,792 --> 00:44:25,967 - Again, it's that point 1032 00:44:26,010 --> 00:44:30,667 at which Clive imagines this character. 1033 00:44:32,060 --> 00:44:35,498 He writes it. It gets physically created. 1034 00:44:35,541 --> 00:44:38,544 The costume is made. The makeup is made. 1035 00:44:38,588 --> 00:44:40,590 They're put on me. I stand up. 1036 00:44:40,633 --> 00:44:42,548 I speak the words. It goes on film. 1037 00:44:42,592 --> 00:44:45,290 It goes out there and that then leaves us 1038 00:44:45,334 --> 00:44:47,771 and it goes into other people's imaginations 1039 00:44:47,815 --> 00:44:50,687 and into their heads and into their lives. 1040 00:44:50,731 --> 00:44:53,385 - I think in a way the movies belong 1041 00:44:53,429 --> 00:44:55,736 to different people now. 1042 00:44:55,779 --> 00:44:58,173 Maybe, arguably, they still belong to Doug 1043 00:44:58,216 --> 00:45:01,437 who has been the constant through all these movies 1044 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:02,830 and is, after all, 1045 00:45:02,873 --> 00:45:05,049 the icon at the heart of the "Hellraiser" movies 1046 00:45:05,093 --> 00:45:06,659 and they belong to the fans 1047 00:45:06,703 --> 00:45:09,314 and I think that's very important, too. 1048 00:45:09,358 --> 00:45:12,448 They belong to people who love those movies, 1049 00:45:12,491 --> 00:45:14,363 perhaps more than I do. 1050 00:45:14,406 --> 00:45:16,844 - Pain has a face. 1051 00:45:19,716 --> 00:45:22,327 Allow me to show it to you. 1052 00:45:22,371 --> 00:45:24,329 - I'm often asked whether I was aware 1053 00:45:24,373 --> 00:45:26,114 when we were making "Hellraiser" 1054 00:45:26,157 --> 00:45:27,376 of how big this was going to be 1055 00:45:27,419 --> 00:45:29,465 and the answer is, emphatically, "No." 1056 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,687 - I am pain! 1057 00:45:34,731 --> 00:45:38,126 - I've been living with the legacy of saying yes 1058 00:45:38,169 --> 00:45:41,390 to playing the character who then didn't even have a name. 1059 00:45:41,433 --> 00:45:43,827 I don't think about him all the time. 1060 00:45:43,871 --> 00:45:47,309 But, he's present in my life on a daily basis. 1061 00:45:47,352 --> 00:45:48,963 I look at it this way. 1062 00:45:49,006 --> 00:45:53,576 If this movie and this role has made that much of an impact 1063 00:45:54,882 --> 00:45:56,797 that, nearly 35 years later, 1064 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,104 people are still interested that people still want to come 1065 00:46:00,148 --> 00:46:02,977 and ask me how long it took to put the makeup on, 1066 00:46:05,022 --> 00:46:06,850 I think I should be pleased by that. 1067 00:46:06,894 --> 00:46:10,245 - None of this is real. You're not real 1068 00:46:10,288 --> 00:46:12,421 - [Pinhead] Oh, but, I'm afraid I am. 1069 00:46:12,464 --> 00:46:15,859 [eerie music] 1070 00:46:15,903 --> 00:46:17,905 - It's an honor. It's humbling. 1071 00:46:19,428 --> 00:46:21,256 Are there times when I wish it would go away 1072 00:46:21,299 --> 00:46:22,953 and leave me alone? 1073 00:46:22,997 --> 00:46:27,001 Oh, you betcha! But, by and large, it's a good place to be. 1074 00:46:28,916 --> 00:46:31,527 - [Narrator] Pleasure was pain there, and vice versa. 1075 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:34,835 And he knew it well enough to call it home. 1076 00:46:34,878 --> 00:46:37,533 [dramatic music] 1077 00:46:43,191 --> 00:46:45,149 - The costume and the flesh are interwoven. 1078 00:46:45,193 --> 00:46:48,109 You see that on Pinhead's costume where the flaps 1079 00:46:48,152 --> 00:46:50,938 of flesh come over the the costume and they're held 1080 00:46:50,981 --> 00:46:53,157 in place with hooks. 1081 00:46:53,201 --> 00:46:56,508 So, [snickers] he talks about- [geese squawk] 1082 00:46:56,552 --> 00:46:58,467 - [Cameraman] Hold that thought one second. 1083 00:46:59,468 --> 00:47:01,470 They're over there fighting. 1084 00:47:01,513 --> 00:47:03,341 Sean, you can go kick those gesse's ass. 1085 00:47:03,385 --> 00:47:05,604 - Fucking geese. - On it. 1086 00:47:05,648 --> 00:47:07,824 [cameraman laughs] [Doug chuckles] 1087 00:47:07,868 --> 00:47:10,479 - [Cameraman] No actual animal cruelty, but, you know? 1088 00:47:10,522 --> 00:47:11,828 - No geese were harmed in the making of this interview. 1089 00:47:11,872 --> 00:47:14,004 - I'd like them to go. - You want those geese- 1090 00:47:14,048 --> 00:47:15,310 - [Cameraman] Chase them away. See what happens. 1091 00:47:15,353 --> 00:47:16,615 Don't get attacked. 1092 00:47:16,659 --> 00:47:18,269 - Don't make an awful lot of noise. 1093 00:47:18,313 --> 00:47:20,968 [Doug chuckles] - Keep goin'. 1094 00:47:21,011 --> 00:47:24,014 Get 'em to stop. - I can still here them! 1095 00:47:24,058 --> 00:47:25,929 - He's scared of them. 1096 00:47:25,973 --> 00:47:28,105 You have to run towards them not away from them! 1097 00:47:28,149 --> 00:47:29,411 [Doug chuckles] - Throw something. 1098 00:47:31,848 --> 00:47:34,372 - Yeah! [Doug laughs] 1099 00:47:34,416 --> 00:47:39,247 [Doug claps] [dramatic music] 1100 00:47:40,335 --> 00:47:41,640 - There we go. [Doug chuckles] 1101 00:47:41,684 --> 00:47:42,554 - All right. - They'll turn around 1102 00:47:42,598 --> 00:47:43,686 and come right back again.