1
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[birds calling]
2
00:00:12,043 --> 00:00:15,803
[woman 1] At the beginning,
all I was thinking about was hurting her.
3
00:00:20,643 --> 00:00:24,643
Mentally trying to hurt her.
That's all I thought about.
4
00:00:28,323 --> 00:00:31,363
I did feel happy that she was…
5
00:00:31,963 --> 00:00:33,043
scared.
6
00:00:52,883 --> 00:00:55,403
[woman 2] I was questioning everyone.
Everyone around me.
7
00:00:58,323 --> 00:00:59,683
It's terrifying.
8
00:01:00,323 --> 00:01:03,083
Whoever is doing it
doesn't just want to bother you.
9
00:01:03,163 --> 00:01:04,843
They are obsessed with you.
10
00:01:06,723 --> 00:01:08,603
I had no idea what was gonna happen.
11
00:01:09,483 --> 00:01:13,923
I genuinely thought that this would
end with me dead.
12
00:01:21,963 --> 00:01:25,683
It just kind of fed my sick need to…
13
00:01:26,523 --> 00:01:29,403
I don't even know what I needed,
but it fed something in me.
14
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I would definitely call it revenge.
15
00:01:35,123 --> 00:01:36,003
[chuckles softly]
16
00:01:42,443 --> 00:01:45,243
[man 1] I'd rather be considered
a murderer than a stalker,
17
00:01:45,323 --> 00:01:46,363
you know what I mean?
18
00:01:50,163 --> 00:01:55,843
[woman] I wanted the intensity
of, like, of her feeling watched.
19
00:01:57,323 --> 00:01:59,243
[man 2] Anybody could be a stalker.
20
00:02:00,483 --> 00:02:02,203
[man 3] It's all boogeyman talk.
21
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[man 4] I'm not still that crazy. Like--
[chuckles]
22
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[birdsong]
23
00:02:19,203 --> 00:02:21,203
[distant siren wailing]
24
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[woman 3] I've dealt with thousands
of women who have experienced stalking.
25
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But women stalkers are very rare.
26
00:02:46,563 --> 00:02:48,483
Eighty percent of the time,
27
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men are the perpetrator
and women are the victims.
28
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This is a unique case.
29
00:02:58,003 --> 00:03:01,363
It meets all the qualifications
of stalking, certainly.
30
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It was a pattern of behavior,
it was targeted to one individual,
31
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and it caused fear.
32
00:03:09,443 --> 00:03:14,283
But this particular case is also defined
as retaliatory stalking.
33
00:03:14,363 --> 00:03:16,403
"I will get you. You will pay for this."
34
00:03:16,483 --> 00:03:19,123
"You'll be sorry you ever messed with me"
kind of thing.
35
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Very, very dangerous.
36
00:03:42,763 --> 00:03:44,563
My name is Jaclyn Feagin.
37
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I was charged with felony stalking.
38
00:03:53,283 --> 00:03:55,243
I grew up all over East Texas.
39
00:03:58,243 --> 00:04:02,443
There's churches and restaurants,
and there's not much more to do
40
00:04:02,523 --> 00:04:06,123
than going to church, going to eat,
and going to shop.
41
00:04:07,323 --> 00:04:11,563
If you don't believe
in the Christian God, you are evil.
42
00:04:12,843 --> 00:04:18,163
It's a very "my way or the highway"
type of deal in the Bible Belt.
43
00:04:22,843 --> 00:04:25,443
My childhood definitely was difficult.
44
00:04:28,883 --> 00:04:32,883
My mother was really the only one
that was there for me.
45
00:04:32,963 --> 00:04:36,203
So, yeah, it's a pretty
unbreakable bond there.
46
00:04:56,683 --> 00:05:01,523
I met my husband through mutual friends.
47
00:05:03,523 --> 00:05:06,883
It was kind of like
an intense relationship.
48
00:05:06,963 --> 00:05:09,443
It-- it progressed really fast.
49
00:05:11,683 --> 00:05:17,603
We had our daughter in 2018,
and then we were married in 2019.
50
00:05:21,523 --> 00:05:25,003
My husband and his ex,
they had a son together,
51
00:05:25,803 --> 00:05:29,763
and once she found out we were dating,
she wanted to know who was around her son.
52
00:05:31,723 --> 00:05:35,403
Straight off the bat, she told me
that if I ever hurt either one of them
53
00:05:35,483 --> 00:05:36,603
that she would kill me,
54
00:05:37,203 --> 00:05:40,243
and that it was not a threat,
that it was a promise.
55
00:05:42,723 --> 00:05:46,083
I think that there were still feelings
left for each other,
56
00:05:46,163 --> 00:05:52,083
and seeing a new girl
move into your ex's home
57
00:05:52,163 --> 00:05:55,243
and with your ex and your son,
I think that can be--
58
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That can be hard.
It can be hard to deal with.
59
00:06:02,603 --> 00:06:04,603
[birdsong]
60
00:06:20,203 --> 00:06:22,963
My name is Sandra
and I live in Flint, Texas.
61
00:06:25,523 --> 00:06:27,883
Jesse is my ex-boyfriend.
62
00:06:39,563 --> 00:06:41,603
We met when we were teenagers.
63
00:06:41,683 --> 00:06:43,843
We were friends for many years.
64
00:06:44,403 --> 00:06:48,403
And about 2012 is when we decided
to develop a relationship.
65
00:06:50,883 --> 00:06:55,443
In about 2015,
Jesse and I had a beautiful little boy.
66
00:06:57,523 --> 00:07:00,283
But we didn't always
see eye to eye on things.
67
00:07:00,363 --> 00:07:03,043
Uh, like, he was an atheist
and I was religious.
68
00:07:05,243 --> 00:07:08,723
So we ended things at the end of 2016.
69
00:07:19,843 --> 00:07:24,523
Just a few months after we ended things,
Jesse began a relationship with Jaclyn.
70
00:07:28,843 --> 00:07:31,003
She was kind of in the shadows of things,
71
00:07:32,283 --> 00:07:34,003
so I did not know her very well.
72
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She was very quiet, very meek.
73
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I did not mind him dating someone else.
74
00:07:46,523 --> 00:07:50,323
I did mind how quickly she was brought
into my child's life,
75
00:07:50,923 --> 00:07:55,483
and I was always concerned that,
because of her…
76
00:07:57,483 --> 00:07:59,323
our son would be put on the back burner.
77
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[birdsong]
78
00:08:13,763 --> 00:08:18,083
[Sandra] I was at work
when my cousin called.
79
00:08:19,683 --> 00:08:22,203
The only thing she said was
my son's not breathing,
80
00:08:22,843 --> 00:08:24,163
and that I needed to come.
81
00:08:25,083 --> 00:08:29,963
I called Jesse as I was leaving
and told him, and Jesse came as well.
82
00:08:32,083 --> 00:08:34,203
We beat the ambulance to the hospital.
83
00:08:35,083 --> 00:08:39,243
We waited for a few minutes
for the doctor to come in,
84
00:08:39,323 --> 00:08:43,163
and he told us that
my son had not had a heartbeat since…
85
00:08:45,043 --> 00:08:46,243
they had picked him up.
86
00:08:51,443 --> 00:08:55,643
My son passed away April 1st of 2017.
87
00:09:00,203 --> 00:09:03,803
I was in absolute denial that he was dead.
88
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My entire life fell apart.
89
00:09:08,203 --> 00:09:11,243
I turned to drugs and alcohol.
90
00:09:12,403 --> 00:09:14,683
I completely lost who I was.
91
00:09:17,523 --> 00:09:19,443
I struggled every day…
92
00:09:20,883 --> 00:09:23,763
with if I was going to get up and try…
93
00:09:25,483 --> 00:09:28,163
to… live this life
94
00:09:28,243 --> 00:09:31,123
or if I was just going to give up.
95
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And I know that Jesse struggled
just the same as I did.
96
00:09:40,523 --> 00:09:42,523
[birdsong]
97
00:09:51,003 --> 00:09:54,643
After their son died, um…
98
00:09:57,243 --> 00:09:58,523
his mother became…
99
00:10:00,763 --> 00:10:04,883
Uh, I don't know. She was grieving,
and I can completely understand that.
100
00:10:06,723 --> 00:10:11,723
But there were a lot of messages
between her and my husband.
101
00:10:14,243 --> 00:10:18,643
I had my suspicions
that they wanted to get back together
102
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or rekindle their relationship.
103
00:10:23,323 --> 00:10:26,083
It definitely put a strain on us.
104
00:10:27,483 --> 00:10:32,723
I became very insecure,
and he became very defensive,
105
00:10:33,763 --> 00:10:38,443
and so there was a lot of sneaking around
and then a lot of snooping on my part,
106
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and a lot of other things were uncovered.
107
00:10:42,163 --> 00:10:45,363
Our relationship became very volatile
after all of this.
108
00:10:49,283 --> 00:10:54,403
I decided that boundaries needed to be set
to make our marriage work.
109
00:10:55,043 --> 00:10:58,563
And one of those boundaries
was with his ex.
110
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"Talk about your son only, and that's it.
Nothing else."
111
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And she did not like that.
112
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[Sandra] After my son passed,
Jaclyn and I did not speak.
113
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At my son's funeral,
114
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she was very uncomfortable to see
Jesse and I standing together,
115
00:11:20,723 --> 00:11:26,123
and I did hold Jesse's hand
as a comfort for our son.
116
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She walked out of the funeral
in the middle of it,
117
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because she was so filled with jealousy.
118
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And that should have been a red flag
right there.
119
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After the service, weeks went by.
120
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Jaclyn did not want Jesse and I talking.
121
00:11:50,243 --> 00:11:52,803
She felt there were
leftover feelings, which, of course,
122
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after so many years together,
123
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and having a son together
and then losing your son together,
124
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of course there's leftover feelings.
125
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The way Jesse and I did talk could have
definitely made her feel very insecure.
126
00:12:10,003 --> 00:12:12,283
You know,
there's just a bond there that you--
127
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that you can't break.
128
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I blocked Sandra
on all of my husband's social media,
129
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so there was no way she could
get into contact with my, um… my husband.
130
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Sandra had a girlfriend.
131
00:12:35,443 --> 00:12:42,043
She had sent a picture of her girlfriend
in her bra and panties to my husband.
132
00:12:43,203 --> 00:12:46,563
And when I said, "Okay, well,
if you're only talking about your son,
133
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then why is your girlfriend's pictures
in my husband's messages?"
134
00:12:51,083 --> 00:12:54,163
And that's where she got nasty with me.
Uh…
135
00:12:54,763 --> 00:12:58,603
I can't remember the choice words
she decided to use against me,
136
00:12:58,683 --> 00:12:59,523
but she did.
137
00:13:03,123 --> 00:13:05,843
[Sandra] I sent a picture
of another girl to Jesse.
138
00:13:06,363 --> 00:13:08,803
It wasn't of me, it was of another woman.
139
00:13:12,083 --> 00:13:14,203
He-- he did flirt.
140
00:13:16,083 --> 00:13:17,443
And I may have…
141
00:13:20,043 --> 00:13:23,283
flirted back, but not with
the intention to get him back.
142
00:13:27,083 --> 00:13:28,323
She did message me.
143
00:13:29,123 --> 00:13:30,203
Um…
144
00:13:30,283 --> 00:13:32,123
She was very aggressive about it.
145
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She was very threatened.
146
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She wanted to fight about it.
147
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Like, she just wanted to argue.
148
00:13:39,563 --> 00:13:43,923
And I didn't really wanna argue with her,
149
00:13:44,003 --> 00:13:46,083
so I said my piece, which was…
150
00:13:47,883 --> 00:13:48,723
"I messed up."
151
00:13:49,803 --> 00:13:54,243
"But I will continue to talk to him
as long as he'll talk to me."
152
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Which I think enraged her.
153
00:14:00,843 --> 00:14:04,283
That was the last time I have spoken
to Jaclyn to this day.
154
00:14:09,963 --> 00:14:11,563
[Feagin] Messages came in.
155
00:14:12,923 --> 00:14:14,923
Really nasty messages.
156
00:14:15,723 --> 00:14:18,243
And I felt like I snapped.
157
00:14:18,963 --> 00:14:22,043
In that moment,
it was like a switch went off.
158
00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:26,723
So I decided to, uh… to get revenge.
159
00:15:06,363 --> 00:15:08,243
[Feagin] The goal was to scare her.
160
00:15:09,083 --> 00:15:14,763
To anonymously leave things, scary items,
to her, on her property,
161
00:15:15,483 --> 00:15:19,843
and she would have to wonder,
"Who did this? Is someone watching me?"
162
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Just to mess with her mentally.
163
00:15:24,723 --> 00:15:28,003
The first time I made something,
it was very simple, very easy.
164
00:15:28,083 --> 00:15:32,043
It was a piece of paper with her picture
and her name on it.
165
00:15:32,123 --> 00:15:33,803
And I think-- I'm pretty sure
166
00:15:33,883 --> 00:15:37,803
I drew a pentagram over her face
with a red marker.
167
00:15:50,203 --> 00:15:55,923
[Feagin] So the first item, I think it was
about one or two o'clock in the morning…
168
00:15:56,803 --> 00:16:01,403
and on the way over, I was nervous,
I was definitely nervous.
169
00:16:01,483 --> 00:16:06,123
I knew I was doing something wrong,
but I went ahead with it.
170
00:16:07,883 --> 00:16:10,803
Yeah, it was definitely like a…
like a high,
171
00:16:10,883 --> 00:16:12,163
like a feeling of…
172
00:16:13,643 --> 00:16:14,483
[sighs]
173
00:16:14,563 --> 00:16:16,563
I-- I don't know exactly how I felt.
174
00:16:16,643 --> 00:16:20,043
I just know I felt good to leave that,
175
00:16:20,123 --> 00:16:22,923
and that she would be waking up
the next morning,
176
00:16:23,003 --> 00:16:25,323
trying to figure out who did what to her.
177
00:16:26,723 --> 00:16:28,203
[birdsong]
178
00:16:30,803 --> 00:16:33,803
[Sandra] I woke up to go to work,
and I opened my front door,
179
00:16:34,563 --> 00:16:40,083
and there was a paper with a picture of me
and a pentagram drawn on my face.
180
00:16:43,363 --> 00:16:46,723
There was a candle that had been burnt,
181
00:16:47,683 --> 00:16:49,003
and it said, "Hi, Sandra."
182
00:16:51,923 --> 00:16:53,843
I saw it laying on the ground.
183
00:16:54,723 --> 00:16:56,043
My stomach sank.
184
00:16:57,163 --> 00:17:00,643
I didn't know who had done it.
I didn't know why someone would do it.
185
00:17:03,363 --> 00:17:04,723
I felt very panicky.
186
00:17:05,403 --> 00:17:09,763
I went and woke my husband up
and brought him outside to show him.
187
00:17:10,363 --> 00:17:11,843
Our children were there,
188
00:17:11,923 --> 00:17:15,563
so we had to make sure that they did not
come to the door to see it,
189
00:17:15,643 --> 00:17:17,763
because I do not want my children exposed.
190
00:17:19,163 --> 00:17:21,163
My husband immediately called the cops.
191
00:17:24,043 --> 00:17:26,083
I was very scared. I felt threatened.
192
00:17:26,163 --> 00:17:32,003
I felt like there was somebody
following me that I was not aware of.
193
00:17:33,323 --> 00:17:37,363
I remember driving to work that morning
and just shaking
194
00:17:38,043 --> 00:17:40,603
and watching every car that drove past me,
195
00:17:40,683 --> 00:17:43,603
and watching every person
that came near me,
196
00:17:43,683 --> 00:17:47,963
and trying to figure out if it was them,
or who it could possibly be.
197
00:17:48,043 --> 00:17:51,483
And I was just rattling my brain
the whole time I'm trying to work,
198
00:17:51,563 --> 00:17:52,403
and it was just…
199
00:17:54,563 --> 00:17:56,123
It was-- it was pretty terrifying.
200
00:18:00,883 --> 00:18:05,083
[Feagin] Over the next couple of days,
it kind of took over my thought process.
201
00:18:05,163 --> 00:18:08,523
That's the only thing
I was thinking about, is,
202
00:18:09,763 --> 00:18:11,523
you know, if she was scared.
203
00:18:12,323 --> 00:18:14,723
So yeah, it became, uh, a really…
204
00:18:16,323 --> 00:18:19,523
sick thought process concerning her.
205
00:18:22,563 --> 00:18:27,043
I can't explain
how or why the obsession came about.
206
00:18:27,123 --> 00:18:30,323
It just did. I think it was because
207
00:18:30,403 --> 00:18:36,123
I was trying to see what she had
that I didn't that my husband wanted.
208
00:18:38,403 --> 00:18:43,763
And then, once that--
that feel-good feeling wore off,
209
00:18:44,443 --> 00:18:50,523
that's when I was planning the… the second
attack, or whatever you wanna call it.
210
00:18:59,843 --> 00:19:05,003
I don't exactly remember
what I dropped off to her the second time.
211
00:19:07,163 --> 00:19:11,803
I had some twine left over,
and I kind of fixed it into a doll.
212
00:19:13,123 --> 00:19:15,843
And I put pins through the head
and the heart,
213
00:19:16,523 --> 00:19:21,763
and then I put it in a jar
with graveyard dirt,
214
00:19:22,363 --> 00:19:24,803
and then sealed it.
215
00:19:25,803 --> 00:19:29,843
And then put, um… sigils all over the jar.
216
00:19:32,523 --> 00:19:37,083
Honestly, I cannot tell you
what most of these things mean.
217
00:19:38,843 --> 00:19:44,043
I know it has to do
with the Wiccan belief, I'm pretty sure.
218
00:19:45,323 --> 00:19:47,923
But I also knew that she was Christian,
219
00:19:48,763 --> 00:19:53,843
and so having these things show up on
your doorstep would be particularly scary.
220
00:19:53,923 --> 00:19:55,523
[dog barking]
221
00:19:56,323 --> 00:20:00,363
I knew if someone left that
on my porch, I would be scared.
222
00:20:04,043 --> 00:20:06,443
[Sandra] They left a jar full of sand,
223
00:20:06,523 --> 00:20:12,883
and a voodoo doll with needles
shoved through its face and its heart.
224
00:20:14,123 --> 00:20:20,803
My initials and my birthday were also
written on the jar in red paint,
225
00:20:20,883 --> 00:20:22,923
and some other satanic symbols.
226
00:20:24,323 --> 00:20:26,523
It was two days prior
to my son's birthday,
227
00:20:26,603 --> 00:20:29,523
so I knew whoever it was knew that,
228
00:20:29,603 --> 00:20:34,003
and I knew that they knew that I would
be in a vulnerable state, grieving.
229
00:20:35,243 --> 00:20:38,483
The timing made it so much worse.
Um, and it-- it…
230
00:20:40,883 --> 00:20:42,483
[sighs] It's evil.
231
00:20:44,523 --> 00:20:50,283
They wanted to… punish me
for something, and I wasn't sure what.
232
00:20:52,723 --> 00:20:54,723
That's what put more fear into me,
233
00:20:54,803 --> 00:20:59,923
because I didn't know who would be
so cruel as to do something like that.
234
00:21:06,203 --> 00:21:09,043
[Feagin] I was sitting at home
235
00:21:09,123 --> 00:21:11,003
thinking about how scared she was,
236
00:21:11,083 --> 00:21:16,123
and I didn't think that
I had scared her enough.
237
00:21:20,403 --> 00:21:23,523
So, I wanted the intensity of, like…
238
00:21:24,603 --> 00:21:26,603
of her feeling watched,
239
00:21:26,683 --> 00:21:28,523
I wanted to kind of up that.
240
00:21:29,203 --> 00:21:35,603
So I had made a fake Facebook profile of,
I think, one of her old work friends,
241
00:21:36,643 --> 00:21:40,363
and I took one of her private photos
that no one else could get
242
00:21:40,443 --> 00:21:42,643
unless you were friends with her
on social media,
243
00:21:42,723 --> 00:21:45,523
and I printed that off and I tied it
to a scroll,
244
00:21:46,363 --> 00:21:49,083
and I Googled some kind of Latin curse…
245
00:21:49,163 --> 00:21:50,443
[scoffs]
246
00:21:50,523 --> 00:21:54,163
And I put it on a scroll, and I put
her picture and tied it together,
247
00:21:54,803 --> 00:21:56,603
and I left that on her car.
248
00:22:00,603 --> 00:22:04,803
I remember the Latin curse
having something to do
249
00:22:04,883 --> 00:22:07,043
with pestilence and bloodshed.
250
00:22:08,243 --> 00:22:10,203
I don't know much more after that.
251
00:22:10,283 --> 00:22:12,403
I didn't memorize it
or anything like that.
252
00:22:18,443 --> 00:22:23,403
[sighing] I… I had an idea that, you know,
253
00:22:23,483 --> 00:22:25,683
what I was doing was criminal.
254
00:22:25,763 --> 00:22:28,803
I didn't take it as seriously
as I should have.
255
00:22:30,363 --> 00:22:32,363
[cicadas chirping]
256
00:22:38,043 --> 00:22:40,923
[Sandra] Without hesitation,
my husband and I called the cops,
257
00:22:41,003 --> 00:22:43,563
and they immediately came
and got the scroll.
258
00:22:44,683 --> 00:22:48,443
They sent me images of what was inside,
259
00:22:48,523 --> 00:22:52,243
and there was a spell written in Latin.
260
00:22:53,123 --> 00:22:55,403
It essentially said
that they wanted me dead.
261
00:22:59,363 --> 00:23:03,003
At this point, I thought they were never
gonna get caught.
262
00:23:07,083 --> 00:23:08,403
My fear just escalated.
263
00:23:09,003 --> 00:23:11,723
I was so sure that
somebody was gonna mess with my car
264
00:23:11,803 --> 00:23:14,603
and that I was gonna be taking my kids
to their daycare
265
00:23:14,683 --> 00:23:16,723
and my brakes were gonna give out, or…
266
00:23:17,723 --> 00:23:18,563
anything.
267
00:23:18,643 --> 00:23:21,123
I was so worried
somebody was going to try and kill me,
268
00:23:21,203 --> 00:23:23,443
and my children would get harmed
in the process.
269
00:23:41,163 --> 00:23:43,923
[man] I've been a police officer
for about 13, almost 14 years.
270
00:23:46,323 --> 00:23:49,923
And I've seen quite a broad spectrum
of what people are capable of.
271
00:23:52,883 --> 00:23:55,763
And with stalking, you never know
how far someone will go.
272
00:23:56,883 --> 00:24:00,283
It'll start off petty, but it can
eventually cost someone their life.
273
00:24:03,883 --> 00:24:07,043
My name is Josh Hill,
and I was the lead detective on this case.
274
00:24:12,763 --> 00:24:16,203
Before my involvement,
I came in, there were, I believe,
275
00:24:16,283 --> 00:24:19,923
five other instances
where, uh, the victim had called 911
276
00:24:20,003 --> 00:24:22,163
to report this kind of behavior.
277
00:24:24,443 --> 00:24:27,763
So it was my job to protect Sandra
and her family.
278
00:24:33,923 --> 00:24:36,883
Initially we were unable to determine
who the suspects were,
279
00:24:38,203 --> 00:24:42,163
but then, when Sandra came to my office
and I interviewed her there,
280
00:24:42,243 --> 00:24:44,283
then it just kind of put
everything together.
281
00:24:52,763 --> 00:24:57,123
[Hill] Okay, today's date is
October the 11th, 2019, around 8:30 a.m.
282
00:24:57,203 --> 00:25:00,283
I'm gonna interview [bleep].
283
00:25:00,363 --> 00:25:03,683
Reference to case number 22280.
284
00:25:15,763 --> 00:25:18,843
[Hill] All right, I wanted
to show you what I was lookin' at.
285
00:25:20,363 --> 00:25:23,243
And I was gonna ask you
to kind of look at--
286
00:25:24,523 --> 00:25:26,323
Help me look at what I was lookin' at,
287
00:25:26,403 --> 00:25:29,723
just to make sure
we're lookin' at the same thing.
288
00:25:44,363 --> 00:25:47,243
This little car, it's a hatchback.
289
00:25:48,403 --> 00:25:49,323
Whose car is that?
290
00:25:49,403 --> 00:25:51,283
-[Sandra] That's Jesse's.
[Hill] Jesse's.
291
00:25:51,363 --> 00:25:52,763
[typing]
292
00:25:53,403 --> 00:25:55,003
What's his wife's name?
293
00:25:55,083 --> 00:25:56,083
[Sandra] Oh, Jaclyn.
294
00:25:57,163 --> 00:25:59,723
-[Hill] J-A-C-L-Y-N, Jaclyn?
-[Sandra] Mm-hm.
295
00:26:01,803 --> 00:26:03,203
[Hill] I mean, that's their car.
296
00:26:03,283 --> 00:26:05,603
It's their car.
I mean, there's no way around it.
297
00:26:17,643 --> 00:26:20,523
[Hill] So the body frame, I don't--
I don't know who your ex is,
298
00:26:20,603 --> 00:26:23,363
but whoever it is walks like a girl.
299
00:26:23,443 --> 00:26:24,563
[Sandra] Mm-hm.
300
00:26:24,643 --> 00:26:26,683
[Hill] You can tell by the way
they swing their arms,
301
00:26:26,763 --> 00:26:30,163
the way the hips move
when a woman walks, you can just tell.
302
00:26:30,763 --> 00:26:32,483
The arms swaying, that's a female.
303
00:26:46,083 --> 00:26:47,723
[Hill] One thing led to another,
304
00:26:47,803 --> 00:26:50,323
and I'm basically
putting this puzzle together,
305
00:26:50,403 --> 00:26:52,563
trying to figure out where the items
came from.
306
00:26:53,323 --> 00:26:55,843
And this is what led me
to go and interview Jaclyn.
307
00:27:16,243 --> 00:27:17,643
[Hill] Hey. Sorry to wake you up.
308
00:27:17,723 --> 00:27:18,843
[Feagin] It's okay.
309
00:27:18,923 --> 00:27:21,203
[Hill] You work late last night?
What time do you get off?
310
00:27:21,283 --> 00:27:23,643
-[Feagin] I got off at 9:30.
-[Hill] Okay.
311
00:27:23,723 --> 00:27:25,403
[Hill] It was a very interesting
interview.
312
00:27:28,523 --> 00:27:31,803
[Hill] Tell me--
I know you know why we're here.
313
00:27:32,443 --> 00:27:33,963
You deny it, or what?
314
00:27:34,443 --> 00:27:36,003
Because they have game cameras up.
315
00:27:36,083 --> 00:27:37,003
[Feagin] Uh-huh.
316
00:27:38,923 --> 00:27:42,083
Honestly, okay,
I'm not gonna to lie to you, like…
317
00:27:42,163 --> 00:27:44,723
It's really stupid now---
-Mm-hm.
318
00:27:44,803 --> 00:27:46,603
…because of all of this…
319
00:27:47,923 --> 00:27:51,083
And, so, yeah, I was messing with her.
320
00:27:55,123 --> 00:27:58,763
So, was it Jesse that was-- that went
with you when y'all were doing this?
321
00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:00,043
-My mom.
-Okay.
322
00:28:00,923 --> 00:28:02,483
-Is Mom here?
-Yes.
323
00:28:02,563 --> 00:28:04,003
Can I chat with Mom, too?
324
00:28:04,083 --> 00:28:05,363
-I'll get her.
-Thank you.
325
00:28:06,883 --> 00:28:11,883
For me, that's where I guess my emotional
attachment to this case came into play,
326
00:28:11,963 --> 00:28:16,563
because as a father and a husband,
I'm all about protecting my family.
327
00:28:16,643 --> 00:28:20,723
And to have a mother of an adult daughter
328
00:28:20,803 --> 00:28:23,283
allow and help culprit
this kind of behavior,
329
00:28:23,363 --> 00:28:27,523
I mean, that definitely changed
the-- the tone of the game.
330
00:28:40,163 --> 00:28:41,923
Hey, Mom. Did we wake you up, too?
331
00:28:42,003 --> 00:28:44,763
Uh, I was awake,
but I was enjoying a quiet time.
332
00:28:44,843 --> 00:28:46,203
-[laughs]
-Oh, well, I'm sorry.
333
00:28:46,283 --> 00:28:47,523
-I'm-- I'm Josh.
-Hi.
334
00:28:47,603 --> 00:28:49,483
-I'm from the sheriff's office.
-Mm-hm.
335
00:28:50,043 --> 00:28:52,163
-I talked with Jesse, and your daughter.
-Mm-hm.
336
00:28:52,243 --> 00:28:54,483
-So I kind of know the whole thing.
-Mm-hm.
337
00:28:54,563 --> 00:28:59,563
But I'm curious, did she tell you why?
Did she tell you what you guys were doin'?
338
00:29:01,163 --> 00:29:03,403
-Yeah, I knew what was goin' on.
-Okay.
339
00:29:03,483 --> 00:29:07,003
I explained to her what was goin' on.
I explained to her the allegations.
340
00:29:07,083 --> 00:29:09,163
And, you know,
she had a smirk on her face.
341
00:29:09,243 --> 00:29:12,763
I'm not trying to tell you to be a parent.
I understand there's a bad history.
342
00:29:12,843 --> 00:29:14,043
-Oh, yeah.
-I'm not naïve.
343
00:29:14,123 --> 00:29:16,243
-Honestly, I thought it was--
-In a sense--
344
00:29:16,323 --> 00:29:17,283
I thought it was funny,
345
00:29:17,363 --> 00:29:20,963
and I thought maybe it would teach her
a lesson and she'd leave them alone.
346
00:29:21,043 --> 00:29:22,563
-Mm-hm.
-That's why I went along.
347
00:29:22,643 --> 00:29:25,923
Just like Jaclyn, she downplays it.
You know, "Well, it was just a joke."
348
00:29:26,003 --> 00:29:29,043
Well, I'm sorry, it's not just a joke.
349
00:29:29,123 --> 00:29:35,763
This was a prolonged, constant barrage of
torture, torment, harassment, annoyance,
350
00:29:35,843 --> 00:29:38,883
and it ultimately put--
put Sandra and her family
351
00:29:38,963 --> 00:29:41,083
in fear of imminent
bodily injury or death.
352
00:29:47,283 --> 00:29:49,283
[cicadas chirping]
353
00:30:05,483 --> 00:30:07,323
I am Kristi Ferguson,
354
00:30:08,483 --> 00:30:11,363
and my daughter is Jaclyn Feagin.
355
00:30:15,203 --> 00:30:19,003
When Jaclyn was younger,
she would let people run over her.
356
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:22,083
I would constantly ask her,
357
00:30:22,883 --> 00:30:25,843
"Why are you lettin' that person
do you that way?"
358
00:30:26,723 --> 00:30:30,683
It took us years of pushing her
to even order her own food,
359
00:30:30,763 --> 00:30:34,323
because she was so shy
and timid and quiet.
360
00:30:36,083 --> 00:30:40,763
Now she's a little quicker to anger,
thank goodness.
361
00:30:40,843 --> 00:30:46,803
But for the most part,
it really takes a lot to get her… upset.
362
00:30:56,323 --> 00:31:00,523
I honestly cannot remember
how the whole idea came about.
363
00:31:00,603 --> 00:31:02,723
We may have been watchin' a movie.
364
00:31:02,803 --> 00:31:07,003
But we were talking one night
and she's like,
365
00:31:07,083 --> 00:31:10,323
"You know, at some point,
this has to be brought out."
366
00:31:10,843 --> 00:31:12,683
She said she was sick of all the lies.
367
00:31:12,763 --> 00:31:16,323
It was just one of those things where
it was like, "You know, enough is enough."
368
00:31:16,403 --> 00:31:22,003
And she's all, "Maybe if I push back
and mess with her a little bit,
369
00:31:22,083 --> 00:31:24,163
maybe, you know, she'll confront me
370
00:31:24,763 --> 00:31:27,363
and everything can be brought out
in the open."
371
00:31:31,643 --> 00:31:33,963
I did suggest just knocking on her door,
372
00:31:34,563 --> 00:31:39,963
but, um… my daughter felt that
that would not put an end to things.
373
00:31:45,123 --> 00:31:47,123
[knocking]
374
00:31:50,083 --> 00:31:53,243
[Ferguson] Honestly,
when I was arrested, uh…
375
00:31:54,443 --> 00:31:56,443
it ticked me off, it made me angry.
376
00:31:57,923 --> 00:31:59,843
It-- it was kind of a shock of…
377
00:31:59,923 --> 00:32:04,883
"You're goin' through all of this just
for us droppin' off a couple of items?"
378
00:32:07,803 --> 00:32:13,563
Honestly, we were not thinking of it
in anything more than possible harassment.
379
00:32:14,243 --> 00:32:18,323
Uh, did we go in with intentions
to get caught and be arrested?
380
00:32:18,403 --> 00:32:19,763
No. No.
381
00:32:19,843 --> 00:32:22,683
No one was tryin' to harm anyone.
382
00:32:22,763 --> 00:32:24,883
I wasn't, and neither was my daughter.
383
00:32:24,963 --> 00:32:27,243
I just thought that it was funny.
384
00:32:29,563 --> 00:32:31,883
My understanding is
that it was put out there
385
00:32:31,963 --> 00:32:35,803
that they were fearing for their lives,
they were fearing for their children.
386
00:32:35,883 --> 00:32:39,763
I guess that's what her thing was,
is, "Because I'm such a Christian, uh…
387
00:32:39,843 --> 00:32:41,723
you know, this is really scaring me."
388
00:32:41,803 --> 00:32:45,123
You know, the whole…
[sighs] The whole situation.
389
00:32:45,203 --> 00:32:49,763
That's why I-- I'm like, "No."
They-- they blew things out of proportion.
390
00:33:12,923 --> 00:33:16,643
[man] To meet the elements of stalking
in the state of Texas,
391
00:33:16,723 --> 00:33:21,963
you need someone
who has a reasonable belief
392
00:33:22,043 --> 00:33:25,683
that they are in some type of danger.
393
00:33:29,483 --> 00:33:33,923
Then you make a determination, "Okay,
what was the intent of doing this?"
394
00:33:34,003 --> 00:33:39,603
"Was it done to alarm, threaten,
harass that individual?"
395
00:33:42,043 --> 00:33:44,443
This case meets all of the elements.
396
00:33:48,043 --> 00:33:49,683
My name is Heath Chamness.
397
00:33:49,763 --> 00:33:52,283
Uh, I am one of the assistant
district attorneys
398
00:33:52,363 --> 00:33:54,243
here in Smith County, Texas,
399
00:33:54,323 --> 00:33:57,403
and this was a case
that was assigned to me.
400
00:34:00,483 --> 00:34:03,843
Before this case,
I had handled a few stalking cases.
401
00:34:03,923 --> 00:34:06,163
But this case is a little different,
402
00:34:06,243 --> 00:34:09,243
because you've got a mother
and a daughter that are co-defendants.
403
00:34:09,763 --> 00:34:12,283
They never denied their, uh… involvement,
404
00:34:13,043 --> 00:34:17,083
but they kind of nonchalantly blew it off,
405
00:34:17,163 --> 00:34:21,563
as if though, "Ah, it was just a prank
and we didn't think anything of it."
406
00:34:21,643 --> 00:34:23,163
And, um…
407
00:34:23,883 --> 00:34:27,003
You know, it--
it doesn't change the fact
408
00:34:27,083 --> 00:34:30,723
that the offense of stalking
had been committed.
409
00:34:40,363 --> 00:34:43,283
Really, at the end of the day,
in talking to my victim,
410
00:34:43,803 --> 00:34:45,643
she wanted to be left alone.
411
00:34:45,723 --> 00:34:46,963
She wanted peace.
412
00:34:48,283 --> 00:34:52,043
So, for both Jaclyn and for Kristina,
413
00:34:52,123 --> 00:34:54,403
I made an offer,
a plea offer on the case.
414
00:34:55,963 --> 00:35:00,403
Jaclyn and her mother were both offered
either three years in prison
415
00:35:00,483 --> 00:35:03,723
or eight years of
deferred adjudicated probation,
416
00:35:03,803 --> 00:35:08,003
and they both elected to take the eight
years' deferred adjudicated probation.
417
00:35:10,683 --> 00:35:15,443
I can tell you that being on probation,
at least in this county, is not easy.
418
00:35:16,323 --> 00:35:19,843
You have regular drug tests.
You have to go through community service.
419
00:35:19,923 --> 00:35:21,523
There are various programs,
420
00:35:21,603 --> 00:35:25,283
depending upon the type of crime
that you commit, that you must complete.
421
00:35:25,363 --> 00:35:31,523
Uh, so the idea that probation
is just merely a slap on the wrist,
422
00:35:31,603 --> 00:35:34,123
for a normal person, it is not.
423
00:35:34,963 --> 00:35:36,523
It is disruptive. [laughs]
424
00:35:37,323 --> 00:35:38,683
It changes your life.
425
00:35:58,123 --> 00:36:00,683
[Chamness] In this particular case,
they were co-defendants,
426
00:36:00,763 --> 00:36:04,163
and so we put in a provision
that did not allow them
427
00:36:04,243 --> 00:36:07,323
to have contact with each other
or the victim.
428
00:36:07,403 --> 00:36:10,723
I think, had they come in
and been truly remorseful,
429
00:36:10,803 --> 00:36:14,443
then maybe our position
would have been a little different.
430
00:36:14,963 --> 00:36:17,563
Uh, but at the end of the day,
431
00:36:17,643 --> 00:36:20,043
they still think
it was nothin' more than a joke.
432
00:36:20,123 --> 00:36:22,923
And because they don't recognize
433
00:36:23,003 --> 00:36:26,923
the severity and the significance
of what they did,
434
00:36:27,003 --> 00:36:30,363
I don't think that they need to be
in communication with each other.
435
00:36:30,923 --> 00:36:32,163
It's-- it's that simple.
436
00:36:35,043 --> 00:36:37,043
[birdsong]
437
00:36:43,523 --> 00:36:47,603
With this sentence,
my daughter and I cannot have contact.
438
00:36:47,683 --> 00:36:54,083
And you go from being in the same home
every day to not being able to speak.
439
00:36:54,163 --> 00:36:56,603
It is very hard. It is very hard.
440
00:37:03,683 --> 00:37:06,683
Do I think the sentence was a statement?
[chuckles] Oh, yeah.
441
00:37:10,723 --> 00:37:13,203
I am a spiritual person, but…
442
00:37:15,003 --> 00:37:17,443
I don't believe in organized religion,
443
00:37:18,123 --> 00:37:21,963
and I feel like they wanted
to teach me a lesson.
444
00:37:22,723 --> 00:37:23,763
Um…
445
00:37:23,843 --> 00:37:27,283
Show me that if I don't conform
to their Christian beliefs,
446
00:37:27,363 --> 00:37:29,123
then I'm gonna be punished.
447
00:37:30,843 --> 00:37:34,403
I personally think it had nothing
to do with stalking.
448
00:37:38,683 --> 00:37:41,483
You're not supposed to be anything more
449
00:37:41,563 --> 00:37:45,283
than a "do as you're told" Christian
in this area.
450
00:38:01,243 --> 00:38:02,483
[dog barks]
451
00:38:10,683 --> 00:38:14,603
[Feagin] I did not know
that the news had covered the story
452
00:38:14,683 --> 00:38:18,283
until I was at work
and I went on my break, my lunch break.
453
00:38:18,363 --> 00:38:21,523
I had, like, a whole lot of missed calls
on my phone.
454
00:38:22,603 --> 00:38:24,803
They were like, "What is happening?
Get on Facebook."
455
00:38:28,403 --> 00:38:31,283
Because we were
in the Bible Belt of Texas,
456
00:38:31,363 --> 00:38:33,643
things like witchcraft, voodoo, satanist,
457
00:38:33,723 --> 00:38:37,683
that is one of probably the worst things
that you can be called here.
458
00:38:40,123 --> 00:38:42,963
There were people that were saying
that we deserved to die,
459
00:38:43,043 --> 00:38:46,163
that we deserved to be thrown
in a padded cell.
460
00:38:46,243 --> 00:38:47,843
All of these crazy things.
461
00:38:48,763 --> 00:38:50,483
From outsiders looking in,
462
00:38:50,563 --> 00:38:53,163
I could see how you could make
those judgments,
463
00:38:53,243 --> 00:38:55,643
but I just felt that they were unfair.
464
00:38:58,203 --> 00:39:03,323
I definitely feel like
it was a very one-sided story,
465
00:39:03,403 --> 00:39:05,963
and it was made to look like…
466
00:39:07,683 --> 00:39:11,323
like a-- like a vicious attack
on a innocent girl.
467
00:39:31,763 --> 00:39:35,723
[Langbein] I think that the notoriety
of this case came from the fact
468
00:39:35,803 --> 00:39:39,123
that those--
those choices of weapon for Miss Feagin
469
00:39:39,203 --> 00:39:42,123
um, had to do with witchcraft
and satanic worship.
470
00:39:43,643 --> 00:39:47,843
And I would say that their choices
were strategically planned out
471
00:39:47,923 --> 00:39:49,803
because of who her victim is.
472
00:39:51,883 --> 00:39:53,683
A stalker knows that person.
473
00:39:54,883 --> 00:39:56,443
If my faith is the most important,
474
00:39:56,523 --> 00:39:59,403
that's what an abuser or a stalker
will come after.
475
00:40:01,523 --> 00:40:03,363
And that's what I saw in Jaclyn's case,
476
00:40:03,443 --> 00:40:09,043
that she was trying to make her victim,
a devout Christian, pay.
477
00:40:15,923 --> 00:40:21,883
There were a couple of comments
about how things affected the victim.
478
00:40:21,963 --> 00:40:24,603
But, I mean, the reality is I don't care.
479
00:40:24,683 --> 00:40:26,483
I don't care how it affected her.
480
00:40:27,403 --> 00:40:31,243
I think that she was being overly dramatic
481
00:40:31,323 --> 00:40:35,083
and claiming things
that were not really there.
482
00:40:35,163 --> 00:40:37,643
[sighs] And this is gonna sound horrible.
483
00:40:37,723 --> 00:40:42,843
I don't care if she's dead or alive.
She is not a significant part of my life.
484
00:40:48,243 --> 00:40:50,843
I think most stalkers
minimize their actions.
485
00:40:50,923 --> 00:40:54,603
"Couldn't have been that big of a deal.
You're makin' too big a deal out of this."
486
00:40:54,683 --> 00:40:57,203
"You're so hysterical. Why are you…"
487
00:40:57,283 --> 00:41:00,043
"Why'd you call the police?
This is so stupid. You're so stupid."
488
00:41:01,723 --> 00:41:03,203
It's that minimization.
489
00:41:03,283 --> 00:41:04,963
It is transferring the blame, that,
490
00:41:05,043 --> 00:41:09,523
"This is obviously your problem,
because this is not that big of a deal."
491
00:41:11,043 --> 00:41:15,563
How could she possibly know
how the victim felt, Sandra felt?
492
00:41:15,643 --> 00:41:19,723
It's not for the perpetrator of the crime
to decide
493
00:41:19,803 --> 00:41:22,643
how it has impacted somebody else's life.
494
00:41:27,763 --> 00:41:29,763
[birdsong]
495
00:41:34,483 --> 00:41:36,603
[Sandra] It's been around two years now,
496
00:41:36,683 --> 00:41:39,803
and I still have trauma
from what happened,
497
00:41:39,883 --> 00:41:44,403
and I still have a fear instilled in me
that I'm not sure will ever go away.
498
00:41:48,843 --> 00:41:51,763
I don't believe probation was enough.
499
00:41:53,523 --> 00:41:58,643
I believe it would be more fitting for
them to sit in prison for a little while
500
00:41:58,723 --> 00:42:00,763
and think about their actions.
501
00:42:07,763 --> 00:42:11,963
The justice system doesn't take stalking
as seriously as they should.
502
00:42:15,443 --> 00:42:19,163
Stalking is not a man
sittin' in the bushes with binoculars.
503
00:42:20,963 --> 00:42:24,883
It could be anybody. You never know.
You never know what people are capable of.
504
00:42:27,963 --> 00:42:29,923
I feel like I had a very lucky escape.
505
00:42:48,883 --> 00:42:52,683
[Feagin] I took it upon myself
to look at the news stories,
506
00:42:52,763 --> 00:42:56,523
and that's where I later found that she
had checked herself into counseling
507
00:42:56,603 --> 00:42:59,643
because she felt traumatized
by the experience.
508
00:43:05,883 --> 00:43:09,123
I thought once she found out
that it was me,
509
00:43:09,203 --> 00:43:13,843
that she wouldn't take it
very seriously anymore.
510
00:43:15,083 --> 00:43:18,483
And then, you know,
it would all kinda… go away.
511
00:43:21,203 --> 00:43:25,083
I didn't think there would be any, like,
long-lasting trauma or pain.
512
00:43:27,083 --> 00:43:32,483
But now, I do believe that what I did
could have traumatized her, yeah.
513
00:43:32,563 --> 00:43:33,843
I do believe that.
514
00:43:35,483 --> 00:43:36,763
[clicks tongue]
515
00:43:37,283 --> 00:43:43,283
There's not enough apology in the world
to make what I did okay.
516
00:43:44,843 --> 00:43:47,683
I deeply affected her life
in a negative way.
517
00:43:48,563 --> 00:43:51,363
And I'm going to have
to live with what I did,
518
00:43:51,443 --> 00:43:54,483
just like she's going to have to live
with what I did to her.
519
00:43:55,163 --> 00:43:57,843
But I am 100% remorseful.